1 00:00:05,360 --> 00:00:07,520 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Truth with Li Sabooth, where we get 2 00:00:07,560 --> 00:00:10,399 Speaker 1: to the heart of the issues that matter to you. Today, 3 00:00:10,440 --> 00:00:14,800 Speaker 1: we're tackling one of America's most visible and stubborn failures, 4 00:00:15,360 --> 00:00:19,800 Speaker 1: the homelessness crisis. So what's driving it? We've got Heather MacDonald. 5 00:00:19,880 --> 00:00:23,240 Speaker 1: She is a Thomas W. Smith Fellow at the Manhattan Institute. 6 00:00:23,320 --> 00:00:26,680 Speaker 1: She's also a contributing editor of the City Journal, and 7 00:00:26,720 --> 00:00:28,880 Speaker 1: she's also the best selling author of The War on 8 00:00:28,960 --> 00:00:31,480 Speaker 1: Cops and her book When Race Trump's Merit is Out, 9 00:00:31,480 --> 00:00:32,239 Speaker 1: You should go get it. 10 00:00:32,240 --> 00:00:33,200 Speaker 2: It's very interesting. 11 00:00:33,640 --> 00:00:37,159 Speaker 1: In a recent article for the City Journal, Heather exposes 12 00:00:37,280 --> 00:00:41,920 Speaker 1: the seven fictions behind field policies that really prioritize disorder 13 00:00:41,960 --> 00:00:46,600 Speaker 1: over public safety, housing shortages, over root causes like addiction 14 00:00:46,880 --> 00:00:51,560 Speaker 1: and mental health illnesses, and also inputs over actual results 15 00:00:51,680 --> 00:00:53,959 Speaker 1: like getting homeless people off the streets. 16 00:00:54,680 --> 00:00:56,800 Speaker 2: So we're going to break it all down with Heather. 17 00:00:56,960 --> 00:00:59,920 Speaker 1: Why billions of money invested have not worked, have not 18 00:01:00,080 --> 00:01:03,600 Speaker 1: produced outcomes, and what's really driving the homeless crisis. 19 00:01:03,800 --> 00:01:10,080 Speaker 2: So stay tuned for Heather McDonald. Well, Heather McDonald, it's always. 20 00:01:09,800 --> 00:01:11,480 Speaker 1: An honor to have you on the show. I always 21 00:01:11,560 --> 00:01:14,679 Speaker 1: learned so much from our conversations. I've had you on before, 22 00:01:14,720 --> 00:01:16,319 Speaker 1: so really appreciate you making the time. 23 00:01:16,880 --> 00:01:18,520 Speaker 3: Thank you so much, Lisa, it's great to be back 24 00:01:18,560 --> 00:01:18,760 Speaker 3: with you. 25 00:01:19,480 --> 00:01:23,120 Speaker 1: So your article on homelessness caught my attention because obviously 26 00:01:23,160 --> 00:01:26,400 Speaker 1: it's a huge issue. It doesn't always get discussed as much. 27 00:01:26,480 --> 00:01:28,840 Speaker 1: But even if you look at places like New York, 28 00:01:28,920 --> 00:01:31,920 Speaker 1: I mean, homelessness increase, but I think almost like fifty 29 00:01:31,920 --> 00:01:34,920 Speaker 1: three percent in a one year span from twenty twenty 30 00:01:34,959 --> 00:01:36,240 Speaker 1: three to twenty twenty four. 31 00:01:36,280 --> 00:01:38,480 Speaker 2: New York City was obviously the main driver of that. 32 00:01:39,520 --> 00:01:41,960 Speaker 1: But we're saying spikes and you know, different parts of 33 00:01:42,000 --> 00:01:43,680 Speaker 1: the country, mostly liberal cities. 34 00:01:44,240 --> 00:01:45,319 Speaker 2: Why is this happening. 35 00:01:46,319 --> 00:01:47,600 Speaker 3: It's a policy choice. 36 00:01:47,720 --> 00:01:51,640 Speaker 4: It's it's happening because our leaders no longer care to 37 00:01:51,880 --> 00:01:58,320 Speaker 4: enforce bourgeois values of public cleanliness order. They view their 38 00:01:58,400 --> 00:02:03,280 Speaker 4: roles as advocate on behalf of the antisocial and the dysfunctional. 39 00:02:03,760 --> 00:02:06,960 Speaker 4: There's no reason why there should be vagrant encampments in 40 00:02:07,040 --> 00:02:07,680 Speaker 4: any city. 41 00:02:07,800 --> 00:02:10,480 Speaker 3: That is, it's a decision to allow people there. 42 00:02:10,520 --> 00:02:14,720 Speaker 4: These are people that suffer from mental illness and drug addiction. 43 00:02:15,080 --> 00:02:16,959 Speaker 3: The greatest branding. 44 00:02:16,560 --> 00:02:19,520 Speaker 4: Madison Avenue, I don't think has ever had a successful 45 00:02:20,000 --> 00:02:24,320 Speaker 4: a branding campaign as the advocates that created the concept 46 00:02:24,360 --> 00:02:29,040 Speaker 4: of homelessness, which is a complete psyop or whatever you 47 00:02:29,040 --> 00:02:31,480 Speaker 4: want to call it. The problem is not that people 48 00:02:31,560 --> 00:02:34,560 Speaker 4: lack homes. The problem is that they are mentally ill 49 00:02:34,720 --> 00:02:39,639 Speaker 4: drug addicts, and they have the social ties that would 50 00:02:39,760 --> 00:02:43,200 Speaker 4: keep people that are more stable housed if they have 51 00:02:43,840 --> 00:02:45,400 Speaker 4: a setback in their lives. 52 00:02:45,520 --> 00:02:47,079 Speaker 3: But the people on. 53 00:02:47,080 --> 00:02:50,560 Speaker 4: The streets are so crazy, so unreliable, that they get 54 00:02:50,680 --> 00:02:53,560 Speaker 4: kicked out of their mother's house, they get kicked out 55 00:02:53,600 --> 00:02:57,120 Speaker 4: of their sister in law's house, and then. 56 00:02:56,720 --> 00:02:57,919 Speaker 3: They get to the streets. 57 00:02:57,960 --> 00:03:03,440 Speaker 4: And there's an entire industry that enables the vagrant lifestyle. 58 00:03:03,560 --> 00:03:07,359 Speaker 4: People get pizzas delivered to their boxes, their encampments, their 59 00:03:07,360 --> 00:03:12,399 Speaker 4: cardboard boxes. Drugs are ubiquitous, I mean every time if 60 00:03:12,440 --> 00:03:15,640 Speaker 4: ever an encampment gets cleared. The main takeaway from that 61 00:03:15,800 --> 00:03:17,920 Speaker 4: is just a whole lot of drug paraphernalia. 62 00:03:18,120 --> 00:03:21,240 Speaker 3: It's rule by advocates, it's rule by. 63 00:03:21,400 --> 00:03:28,119 Speaker 4: NGOs that get money from social problems, and the taxpayers 64 00:03:28,120 --> 00:03:34,519 Speaker 4: that are funding this vagrancy machine are viewed simply as ATMs, 65 00:03:34,680 --> 00:03:37,800 Speaker 4: and their interests are never ever taken into account. 66 00:03:38,640 --> 00:03:40,560 Speaker 1: How much of it you know, obviously, there's the big 67 00:03:40,600 --> 00:03:43,840 Speaker 1: financial component that you laid out of, you know, sort 68 00:03:43,840 --> 00:03:46,560 Speaker 1: of like these kickbacks as well and sort of enriching 69 00:03:46,640 --> 00:03:49,960 Speaker 1: friends and the money making aspect of it. But there's 70 00:03:50,000 --> 00:03:53,920 Speaker 1: also like this ideological aspect of it. And it seems 71 00:03:53,960 --> 00:03:56,440 Speaker 1: like with the left, and it's the same thing, you know, 72 00:03:56,480 --> 00:03:58,520 Speaker 1: we're broke, like the war on cops, and you know, 73 00:03:58,560 --> 00:04:00,720 Speaker 1: there seems to be these consistent things on the left 74 00:04:00,760 --> 00:04:05,320 Speaker 1: where it's like the people who do bad and the 75 00:04:05,720 --> 00:04:09,640 Speaker 1: criminals or these vagrants as you put them, with the homeless, 76 00:04:09,800 --> 00:04:14,040 Speaker 1: that their needs are supersede the needs of like law abiding, 77 00:04:14,280 --> 00:04:17,440 Speaker 1: tax paying citizens. Why do you think that is? Like, 78 00:04:18,080 --> 00:04:20,440 Speaker 1: how did the left come about this ideology? Like what 79 00:04:20,600 --> 00:04:21,160 Speaker 1: drives it? 80 00:04:22,480 --> 00:04:25,760 Speaker 4: Well, that's a very difficult causal question. But I'm going 81 00:04:25,800 --> 00:04:29,200 Speaker 4: to add one other aspect to that, which is that 82 00:04:29,760 --> 00:04:32,920 Speaker 4: the advocates want the homeless in the streets not only 83 00:04:32,960 --> 00:04:35,400 Speaker 4: because they make money the Coalition for the Homeless every 84 00:04:35,440 --> 00:04:39,280 Speaker 4: city has its own, you know, vagrant advocacy group and 85 00:04:39,320 --> 00:04:43,800 Speaker 4: as you say, than the shelter building services industry. But 86 00:04:43,880 --> 00:04:48,599 Speaker 4: it's also an ideological statement because the advocates view people 87 00:04:48,600 --> 00:04:52,159 Speaker 4: living on the streets as visible symbols of the heartlessness 88 00:04:52,240 --> 00:04:56,840 Speaker 4: of capitalism, and why we need to move to socialized housing, 89 00:04:57,120 --> 00:05:00,760 Speaker 4: why we need to have even greater expropriat of wealth 90 00:05:00,760 --> 00:05:04,200 Speaker 4: through a highly progressive tax system, more progressive than anything 91 00:05:04,240 --> 00:05:07,799 Speaker 4: Europe ever has. So it's for them they are making 92 00:05:07,800 --> 00:05:10,360 Speaker 4: a statement. But your broader point is one that I 93 00:05:10,560 --> 00:05:13,600 Speaker 4: think about all the timely so, which is why has 94 00:05:13,720 --> 00:05:20,559 Speaker 4: government changed its function, changed its self conception away from 95 00:05:20,800 --> 00:05:26,280 Speaker 4: serving as the guaranteur, as the backstop of commerce of 96 00:05:26,320 --> 00:05:30,760 Speaker 4: a civil society, protecting law and order, making sure that 97 00:05:31,320 --> 00:05:36,560 Speaker 4: streets work, that transit systems are maintained, that highways are maintained, 98 00:05:37,200 --> 00:05:40,480 Speaker 4: making sure that there is the infrastructure that allows people 99 00:05:41,000 --> 00:05:42,799 Speaker 4: that want to strive and get. 100 00:05:42,600 --> 00:05:44,919 Speaker 3: Ahead to succeed in life. 101 00:05:45,520 --> 00:05:48,839 Speaker 4: And instead, now, as you say, they have embraced the 102 00:05:48,880 --> 00:05:55,920 Speaker 4: cause of the fictionally marginalized. This is the most prosperous society. 103 00:05:55,960 --> 00:05:59,200 Speaker 4: It is the most tolerant society in human history. The 104 00:05:59,320 --> 00:06:03,480 Speaker 4: idea that there are groups that are not like heterosexual 105 00:06:03,480 --> 00:06:07,480 Speaker 4: white males, they truly are marginalized. I mean there's overt 106 00:06:07,520 --> 00:06:10,560 Speaker 4: discrimination going on getting into medical schools, law schools. If 107 00:06:10,560 --> 00:06:13,560 Speaker 4: you have a straight white male son or grandson, you've 108 00:06:13,600 --> 00:06:18,120 Speaker 4: experienced this but the people that claim that lay claim 109 00:06:18,200 --> 00:06:22,360 Speaker 4: to victim status are simply not. But that's what government 110 00:06:22,400 --> 00:06:25,040 Speaker 4: has decided in sort of a post civil rights era, 111 00:06:25,360 --> 00:06:31,280 Speaker 4: that it's no longer about the basic public responsibilities that 112 00:06:31,320 --> 00:06:35,600 Speaker 4: the private market can't take care of, and instead it's 113 00:06:35,880 --> 00:06:42,680 Speaker 4: taken the side of social justice and views the ordinary 114 00:06:43,279 --> 00:06:47,000 Speaker 4: bourgeois citizen who's just trying to raise his family as 115 00:06:47,279 --> 00:06:50,919 Speaker 4: as somehow an impediment to social justice and as to 116 00:06:50,960 --> 00:06:55,159 Speaker 4: be very extreme in the statement, but to a certain extent, 117 00:06:55,240 --> 00:06:57,640 Speaker 4: and I'm here in New York City, I can say 118 00:06:57,640 --> 00:06:59,839 Speaker 4: when it plomes to our mayor, this is the case, 119 00:07:00,240 --> 00:07:05,120 Speaker 4: views the hard working taxpayer, the property owner, the corporation 120 00:07:05,240 --> 00:07:06,640 Speaker 4: owner as the enemy. 121 00:07:06,520 --> 00:07:09,600 Speaker 1: And two just the you know, it's the same with 122 00:07:09,760 --> 00:07:12,880 Speaker 1: the illegal aliens as well, that their needs are more 123 00:07:12,920 --> 00:07:17,360 Speaker 1: important than ours, the you know, the American taxpayers and 124 00:07:17,400 --> 00:07:21,040 Speaker 1: the American law abiding citizens. You know, we obviously saw 125 00:07:21,240 --> 00:07:24,000 Speaker 1: millions of illegal aliens come to the United States. A 126 00:07:24,000 --> 00:07:27,440 Speaker 1: lot of these cities that are experiencing homeless, homeless crisis, 127 00:07:27,640 --> 00:07:30,720 Speaker 1: they're sanctuary cities, like in New York City. So what 128 00:07:31,240 --> 00:07:35,040 Speaker 1: rule has this influx of legal aliens played in the 129 00:07:35,080 --> 00:07:36,000 Speaker 1: homeless crisis. 130 00:07:37,200 --> 00:07:39,840 Speaker 3: Well, it's contributing to it at this point. 131 00:07:39,880 --> 00:07:42,800 Speaker 4: But we had this crisis for a long time before 132 00:07:43,040 --> 00:07:47,080 Speaker 4: the big welcome Matt and additional set of incentives for 133 00:07:47,200 --> 00:07:50,880 Speaker 4: legal aliens to come to. But again that's a great example, Lisa, 134 00:07:50,960 --> 00:07:54,040 Speaker 4: and there's trying to decide what it causes for a 135 00:07:54,160 --> 00:07:58,760 Speaker 4: very complex social phenomenon is very difficult. You can't test 136 00:07:58,840 --> 00:08:02,400 Speaker 4: it empirical or you know, do a hypothesis testing. 137 00:08:02,800 --> 00:08:05,520 Speaker 3: I would just say it, to notice the. 138 00:08:05,520 --> 00:08:10,200 Speaker 4: Phenomenon is already a lot, and as your articulate, it 139 00:08:10,320 --> 00:08:13,880 Speaker 4: is already a lot. To notice that government, I call 140 00:08:13,920 --> 00:08:18,120 Speaker 4: it the great inversion it has. It has overturned the 141 00:08:18,200 --> 00:08:23,679 Speaker 4: traditional values that has always governed and motivated governments. Again, 142 00:08:23,760 --> 00:08:28,120 Speaker 4: the protection of life, liberty, and property. Property. We sort 143 00:08:28,120 --> 00:08:31,200 Speaker 4: of are we shy away from saying, well, property is 144 00:08:31,240 --> 00:08:34,360 Speaker 4: important because it just sounds kind of selfish and means 145 00:08:34,360 --> 00:08:39,840 Speaker 4: spirited capitalism. No, the protection of property is the cornerstone 146 00:08:40,160 --> 00:08:43,760 Speaker 4: of civilization. When you have as you do in New York, 147 00:08:43,920 --> 00:08:51,600 Speaker 4: every drug store has locked up the most innocuous consumer items. 148 00:08:51,200 --> 00:08:53,960 Speaker 3: The toothpaste, the. 149 00:08:53,200 --> 00:09:00,000 Speaker 4: The advil, hair conditioner lotion. If you have a government 150 00:09:00,200 --> 00:09:06,559 Speaker 4: that can't even protect that drug store owner from rampant 151 00:09:06,800 --> 00:09:11,480 Speaker 4: theft and shoplifting. That is a government that has no 152 00:09:12,000 --> 00:09:19,640 Speaker 4: reason to exist. It has completely abdicated its most fundamental obligation, 153 00:09:19,720 --> 00:09:21,720 Speaker 4: which is to make sure that somebody who wants to 154 00:09:21,760 --> 00:09:23,280 Speaker 4: engage in commerce. 155 00:09:23,480 --> 00:09:26,079 Speaker 3: Has the security of his property. 156 00:09:26,440 --> 00:09:30,679 Speaker 4: And we're supposed to not be the Third World or 157 00:09:31,800 --> 00:09:35,480 Speaker 4: the Middle Ages when you had highway robbers rampaging without 158 00:09:35,520 --> 00:09:38,480 Speaker 4: any central authority of the state to bring them down. 159 00:09:38,640 --> 00:09:42,560 Speaker 3: But we have regressed to that. So again, the illegal aliens, 160 00:09:43,040 --> 00:09:44,920 Speaker 3: they're out there, but so. 161 00:09:44,960 --> 00:09:48,480 Speaker 4: Many of them are dealing the drugs as opposed to 162 00:09:49,000 --> 00:09:54,000 Speaker 4: taking them. And the mental illness problem that's very, very 163 00:09:54,080 --> 00:09:57,520 Speaker 4: much central to all of this. That's partly a response 164 00:09:57,920 --> 00:10:03,120 Speaker 4: of decades of drug abuse, it's partly a group. There's 165 00:10:03,160 --> 00:10:06,640 Speaker 4: certain groups that are much more susceptible to schizophrenia by 166 00:10:06,800 --> 00:10:11,880 Speaker 4: genetic disposition than others. But the vagrancy thing began in 167 00:10:11,960 --> 00:10:16,800 Speaker 4: the eighties. We remember the bag ladies and the shopping 168 00:10:16,840 --> 00:10:20,239 Speaker 4: carts and whatnot, that this was something new in American 169 00:10:20,320 --> 00:10:24,560 Speaker 4: society that predates illegal aliens. Which is not to say 170 00:10:25,000 --> 00:10:27,520 Speaker 4: I am not in any way saying that government is 171 00:10:27,559 --> 00:10:32,920 Speaker 4: not completely ignoring its responsibilities and protecting the border, and 172 00:10:33,120 --> 00:10:38,200 Speaker 4: nobody has any entitlement not to be deported. Deportation is 173 00:10:38,280 --> 00:10:42,000 Speaker 4: the risk that is assumed by every illegal alien who 174 00:10:42,000 --> 00:10:45,280 Speaker 4: comes in. And sorry, you don't get to complain that 175 00:10:45,720 --> 00:10:49,520 Speaker 4: there's you know, statutal limitations or something on your being deported. 176 00:10:49,920 --> 00:10:51,880 Speaker 1: Got to take a quick commercial break more with Heather 177 00:10:51,920 --> 00:10:57,640 Speaker 1: on the other side. So why haven't voters caught on 178 00:10:58,640 --> 00:11:01,400 Speaker 1: because in a lot of these cases, you know, mayor mom, 179 00:11:01,440 --> 00:11:04,640 Speaker 1: Donnie will purport to be virtuous and that you know, 180 00:11:04,679 --> 00:11:08,560 Speaker 1: he's the caring person and that, you know, like the 181 00:11:08,559 --> 00:11:11,640 Speaker 1: bleeding heart liberal type scenario, but then you know he 182 00:11:11,760 --> 00:11:13,520 Speaker 1: just got a bunch of homeless people. 183 00:11:13,320 --> 00:11:15,880 Speaker 2: Killed during a snowstorem or. 184 00:11:16,040 --> 00:11:19,120 Speaker 1: You know, they say legal you know, allowing you know, 185 00:11:19,520 --> 00:11:23,640 Speaker 1: effeckless illegal immigration, that somehow that is virtuous. But then 186 00:11:23,720 --> 00:11:26,480 Speaker 1: you know, you look at the rapes that take place 187 00:11:26,600 --> 00:11:30,000 Speaker 1: and take part in the journey, and you know it's 188 00:11:30,000 --> 00:11:33,760 Speaker 1: like it's not the virtuous thing to do these leftist policies. 189 00:11:33,800 --> 00:11:35,959 Speaker 1: So like, why why haven't voters pot onto that? 190 00:11:37,120 --> 00:11:40,360 Speaker 4: Yeah, And these are such deep questions. One can go 191 00:11:40,480 --> 00:11:42,920 Speaker 4: back and back what causes that? Well, okay, we say that, 192 00:11:42,960 --> 00:11:44,520 Speaker 4: and then well, what causes that? You know, it's an 193 00:11:44,520 --> 00:11:48,439 Speaker 4: infinite regressive explanation. I would say that some voters, again, 194 00:11:48,559 --> 00:11:51,840 Speaker 4: this grows out of a very interconnected left wing view 195 00:11:52,400 --> 00:11:56,760 Speaker 4: that regards middle class, traditional bourgeois values with suspicion that 196 00:11:57,280 --> 00:11:59,600 Speaker 4: you know, this began in the sixties with the youth 197 00:11:59,640 --> 00:12:05,480 Speaker 4: rebelled against traditional values. That was enabled by America's unbelievable 198 00:12:05,520 --> 00:12:13,040 Speaker 4: prosperity that gave stupid, idiotic, selfish, narcissistic adolescents spending power 199 00:12:13,400 --> 00:12:17,040 Speaker 4: and autonomy for the first time in millennia of human history, 200 00:12:17,559 --> 00:12:24,080 Speaker 4: and their pseudo rebellion instinct was glorified. And it's gone 201 00:12:24,160 --> 00:12:29,400 Speaker 4: on since then with anything remotely resembling traditional adult authority 202 00:12:29,440 --> 00:12:33,760 Speaker 4: being discredited. But as you say, if your main goal 203 00:12:33,840 --> 00:12:37,360 Speaker 4: is compassion, you can play that. On the other side, 204 00:12:37,360 --> 00:12:39,640 Speaker 4: It's absolutely true. I mean, this is my big complaint 205 00:12:39,679 --> 00:12:44,160 Speaker 4: about Black Lives Matter activists. They only protest if a 206 00:12:44,200 --> 00:12:47,080 Speaker 4: black person is killed by a police officer, which is 207 00:12:47,160 --> 00:12:49,120 Speaker 4: the minute number of killings. 208 00:12:49,160 --> 00:12:50,160 Speaker 3: Blacks die. 209 00:12:50,200 --> 00:12:53,600 Speaker 4: About eight ten thousand a year are killed in homicide. 210 00:12:53,640 --> 00:12:58,240 Speaker 4: That's more than all white and Hispanic homicide victims combined, 211 00:12:58,800 --> 00:13:01,840 Speaker 4: even though blacks are only thirteen percent of the population. 212 00:13:02,600 --> 00:13:05,960 Speaker 4: Blacks are mowing each other down dozens by the day, 213 00:13:06,240 --> 00:13:09,559 Speaker 4: Every single day across America, dozens of blacks are getting 214 00:13:09,640 --> 00:13:14,040 Speaker 4: killed by other blacks, and there's never a peep of 215 00:13:14,160 --> 00:13:18,360 Speaker 4: protest from the Black Lives Matter activist, including when it's 216 00:13:18,400 --> 00:13:21,720 Speaker 4: three year olds one year old's toddler is getting shot 217 00:13:21,760 --> 00:13:25,040 Speaker 4: in the head, shot through the chest, in their bedrooms, 218 00:13:25,080 --> 00:13:29,520 Speaker 4: playing on trampolines at barbecues at Fourth of July barbecues, 219 00:13:29,559 --> 00:13:33,640 Speaker 4: as we saw this last summer in Washington, d C. 220 00:13:34,160 --> 00:13:37,320 Speaker 3: With honestly cheetle It's unbelievable. 221 00:13:37,400 --> 00:13:44,040 Speaker 4: So their compassion is extremely politically oriented. And the other reason, 222 00:13:44,600 --> 00:13:48,440 Speaker 4: because I asked myself this all the time, Lisa, why 223 00:13:48,480 --> 00:13:54,120 Speaker 4: do voters keep voting in the Democratic mayors and governors 224 00:13:54,200 --> 00:13:59,920 Speaker 4: that are directly responsible for the appalling conditions on the streets. 225 00:14:00,040 --> 00:14:03,320 Speaker 4: I'm from Los Angeles. It's heartbreaking what has happened in 226 00:14:03,320 --> 00:14:05,560 Speaker 4: that city. It did not used to be this way. 227 00:14:05,640 --> 00:14:09,920 Speaker 4: Santa Monica now is just a complete nightmare. And part 228 00:14:09,960 --> 00:14:15,200 Speaker 4: of it is that the left believes that so called 229 00:14:15,320 --> 00:14:21,600 Speaker 4: homelessness is a phenomenon caused by economic conditions, by racism, 230 00:14:21,680 --> 00:14:23,120 Speaker 4: by poverty. 231 00:14:23,200 --> 00:14:25,120 Speaker 3: It is not a policy. 232 00:14:24,720 --> 00:14:29,000 Speaker 4: Choice, and so they think that well, the politicians are 233 00:14:29,040 --> 00:14:32,920 Speaker 4: doing as much as they can, and if it hasn't 234 00:14:32,960 --> 00:14:37,280 Speaker 4: gotten solved, it's not because of bad policy. It's because 235 00:14:37,360 --> 00:14:41,560 Speaker 4: our economy is cruel. So they don't blame the politicians 236 00:14:42,080 --> 00:14:44,880 Speaker 4: and so then there's never any accountability. But it is 237 00:14:44,920 --> 00:14:48,520 Speaker 4: a mystery. It is a mystery why the bums don't 238 00:14:48,520 --> 00:14:49,320 Speaker 4: get thrown out. 239 00:14:50,520 --> 00:14:52,200 Speaker 1: Well, that's the thing, because it's like even on like 240 00:14:52,240 --> 00:14:56,520 Speaker 1: the affordability stuff, which is what you know zoron that. 241 00:14:56,600 --> 00:14:57,920 Speaker 2: Was the key to his success. 242 00:14:59,120 --> 00:15:01,440 Speaker 1: But it's like you would say, common sense would be like, 243 00:15:01,480 --> 00:15:04,360 Speaker 1: all right, well, we've had Democrats in charge for quite 244 00:15:04,360 --> 00:15:08,200 Speaker 1: some time, like affordability has not gotten better, So maybe 245 00:15:08,440 --> 00:15:12,200 Speaker 1: like going with another Democrat, particularly one even more left leaning, 246 00:15:12,440 --> 00:15:14,880 Speaker 1: is not going to solve that crisis or that you know, 247 00:15:14,960 --> 00:15:15,640 Speaker 1: that problem. 248 00:15:15,840 --> 00:15:20,120 Speaker 2: But you know, somehow voters have not figured that out. 249 00:15:20,440 --> 00:15:23,600 Speaker 4: Well, they're getting such left wing ideology that you know, 250 00:15:23,640 --> 00:15:28,200 Speaker 4: it's quite ironic because Mandami presents government as the solution 251 00:15:28,800 --> 00:15:30,120 Speaker 4: to affordability. 252 00:15:30,520 --> 00:15:33,040 Speaker 3: It's the problem. Government is the problem. You know. 253 00:15:33,120 --> 00:15:37,040 Speaker 4: He's he keeps complaining about the conditions in rent stabilized 254 00:15:37,040 --> 00:15:40,320 Speaker 4: apartments because the landlords don't have enough money. They're not 255 00:15:40,480 --> 00:15:44,640 Speaker 4: they're not being allowed enough rent to cover costs, and 256 00:15:44,720 --> 00:15:47,400 Speaker 4: yet he wants to he wants to make it even 257 00:15:47,480 --> 00:15:51,400 Speaker 4: harder for landlords to get by rent control. It has 258 00:15:51,600 --> 00:15:55,440 Speaker 4: never worked. It is is guaranteed. Any time you have 259 00:15:55,760 --> 00:15:59,360 Speaker 4: price controls, they don't work. Government regulations. It makes everything 260 00:15:59,400 --> 00:16:03,360 Speaker 4: more expensive. And yet, and yet people buy the line 261 00:16:03,560 --> 00:16:07,840 Speaker 4: that it is the product. Problem is with capitalism and 262 00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:12,920 Speaker 4: government is the solution. And certainly nobody in college is. 263 00:16:12,840 --> 00:16:14,280 Speaker 3: Being taught anything different. 264 00:16:15,640 --> 00:16:18,120 Speaker 1: Well, you know, and then too, obviously, like these huge 265 00:16:19,360 --> 00:16:21,680 Speaker 1: budget issues in places like New York City, do you 266 00:16:21,720 --> 00:16:24,720 Speaker 1: know how much they're spending to you know, quote unquote 267 00:16:24,720 --> 00:16:27,600 Speaker 1: solve the homeless crisis here in the city. 268 00:16:28,240 --> 00:16:32,840 Speaker 4: One thousand per vagrant the budget, it's in the billions 269 00:16:32,840 --> 00:16:36,240 Speaker 4: of dollars, and it goes up every year, but eighty 270 00:16:36,320 --> 00:16:39,480 Speaker 4: thousand at least that Now. I'm not saying we should 271 00:16:39,480 --> 00:16:42,520 Speaker 4: build everybody a private home, because that's not the problem. 272 00:16:42,560 --> 00:16:44,640 Speaker 4: The problem is that they are They should all be 273 00:16:45,080 --> 00:16:48,840 Speaker 4: either institutionalized for mental illness or forced to deal with 274 00:16:48,880 --> 00:16:52,080 Speaker 4: their drug addiction. Giving them their own private apartment is 275 00:16:52,080 --> 00:16:54,760 Speaker 4: not the solution, and it's nothing that taxpayer should. 276 00:16:54,480 --> 00:16:56,920 Speaker 3: Be on the hook for. Nevertheless, it is. 277 00:16:57,640 --> 00:17:01,520 Speaker 4: You know, it's it's hackneyed to say, but eighty thousand 278 00:17:01,600 --> 00:17:03,080 Speaker 4: is a lot that you could do a lot with 279 00:17:03,120 --> 00:17:05,920 Speaker 4: that if you wanted. But it's going to the advocates 280 00:17:05,920 --> 00:17:07,160 Speaker 4: that keep the system going. 281 00:17:07,280 --> 00:17:11,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, I want to ask you about the murder rates 282 00:17:11,200 --> 00:17:14,760 Speaker 1: in the country is on track to potentially see one 283 00:17:14,760 --> 00:17:16,919 Speaker 1: of the largest drops we've ever seen. I think the 284 00:17:17,080 --> 00:17:18,480 Speaker 1: numbers are out in September, I. 285 00:17:18,440 --> 00:17:20,199 Speaker 3: Believe right the FBI. 286 00:17:21,560 --> 00:17:23,720 Speaker 2: What do you think is that Trump driven in? Like, 287 00:17:23,760 --> 00:17:24,919 Speaker 2: what's driving that? 288 00:17:26,280 --> 00:17:26,600 Speaker 3: Well? 289 00:17:26,640 --> 00:17:29,359 Speaker 4: I think we had the biggest one year increase in 290 00:17:29,480 --> 00:17:33,840 Speaker 4: homicide in twenty twenty with the George Floyd race riots 291 00:17:33,880 --> 00:17:37,680 Speaker 4: and the demonization of the cops. It was a twenty 292 00:17:37,760 --> 00:17:41,760 Speaker 4: eight to twenty nine percent increase in one year. That's unprecedented, 293 00:17:42,080 --> 00:17:46,160 Speaker 4: and to a certain extent, we're reverting to the mean. 294 00:17:47,800 --> 00:17:51,040 Speaker 4: I think it does matter that we no longer have 295 00:17:51,280 --> 00:17:57,040 Speaker 4: the constant reinforcement coming from a white house that blacks 296 00:17:57,119 --> 00:18:00,840 Speaker 4: or victims of police racism and there for you know, 297 00:18:00,880 --> 00:18:04,400 Speaker 4: there's a certain subtle justification of crime. 298 00:18:04,560 --> 00:18:07,080 Speaker 3: Trump is willing to stand up for the. 299 00:18:07,040 --> 00:18:13,240 Speaker 4: Police, and there has been a gradual return to the 300 00:18:13,359 --> 00:18:18,119 Speaker 4: essential proactive policing and actually enforcing the law. That is 301 00:18:18,200 --> 00:18:21,040 Speaker 4: the one thing that government can do to lower crime. 302 00:18:21,359 --> 00:18:24,719 Speaker 4: The social programs do not work, it's too late, the 303 00:18:24,760 --> 00:18:29,920 Speaker 4: family structure has been too destroyed. Enforcement and deterrence from 304 00:18:30,040 --> 00:18:34,120 Speaker 4: enforcement does help. And so that's been going on. And Trump, 305 00:18:34,760 --> 00:18:37,880 Speaker 4: you know, I don't think crime policy is a very 306 00:18:37,920 --> 00:18:41,000 Speaker 4: local issue. He has not been able to change the 307 00:18:41,040 --> 00:18:46,640 Speaker 4: tactics in the seven hundred thousand or so police jurisdictions 308 00:18:46,680 --> 00:18:50,679 Speaker 4: in this country, but he has sent a message that 309 00:18:50,760 --> 00:18:55,000 Speaker 4: I think is salutary the usual. He also argues for 310 00:18:55,080 --> 00:18:57,280 Speaker 4: the decrease of illegal aliens. 311 00:18:57,640 --> 00:18:58,960 Speaker 3: I'm agnostic on that. 312 00:19:00,440 --> 00:19:02,520 Speaker 4: This is obviously, as you know, at least one of 313 00:19:02,520 --> 00:19:06,040 Speaker 4: the most contested issues of what is the crime rate 314 00:19:06,440 --> 00:19:11,440 Speaker 4: of illegal aliens? And it's hard to get satisfying data 315 00:19:11,480 --> 00:19:16,840 Speaker 4: because the jurisdictions that are sanctuary jurisdictions, the county jails, 316 00:19:16,920 --> 00:19:21,240 Speaker 4: the state prisons, they don't exactly care to look into 317 00:19:21,359 --> 00:19:24,959 Speaker 4: the immigration status of their inmates because they're not even 318 00:19:25,000 --> 00:19:27,639 Speaker 4: going to allow the ice to take custody once they 319 00:19:27,720 --> 00:19:30,920 Speaker 4: finish their terms. I would say my view, and this 320 00:19:31,000 --> 00:19:33,440 Speaker 4: is something I've just sort of come to feel from 321 00:19:33,560 --> 00:19:37,840 Speaker 4: researching over the years and reporting, going to place is 322 00:19:37,880 --> 00:19:42,959 Speaker 4: that the effect of an illegal alien population that is 323 00:19:43,280 --> 00:19:46,720 Speaker 4: a combination of white and Asian crime rates which is 324 00:19:46,840 --> 00:19:49,840 Speaker 4: very low, and black crime rates which are very high. 325 00:19:49,960 --> 00:19:54,399 Speaker 4: So if you have Hispanics coming into a white community, 326 00:19:55,240 --> 00:20:00,600 Speaker 4: that community is going to start your gangs. But when 327 00:20:00,880 --> 00:20:05,760 Speaker 4: Hispanics started moving into south central Los Angeles and displacing blacks, 328 00:20:05,920 --> 00:20:10,440 Speaker 4: the crime rate dropped and you got more bodegas being formed, 329 00:20:10,680 --> 00:20:13,960 Speaker 4: more entrepreneurial spirits. So, as I say, it kind of 330 00:20:13,960 --> 00:20:15,840 Speaker 4: depends on what the context is. 331 00:20:16,160 --> 00:20:20,800 Speaker 1: How reliable is crime data period in the sense of, 332 00:20:21,720 --> 00:20:24,879 Speaker 1: you know, what is crime actually being reported? You know 333 00:20:25,040 --> 00:20:28,360 Speaker 1: to You've got a lot of these liberal cities too, 334 00:20:28,400 --> 00:20:31,119 Speaker 1: where there's no fall through as well, or you know, 335 00:20:31,160 --> 00:20:33,560 Speaker 1: people aren't being arrested that should be arrested. 336 00:20:33,600 --> 00:20:37,080 Speaker 2: So like, how reliable is the data period? 337 00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:40,639 Speaker 3: Well, homicide data is gold standard. 338 00:20:41,119 --> 00:20:44,600 Speaker 4: It's really not possible to hide the bodies and basically 339 00:20:44,640 --> 00:20:47,920 Speaker 4: every homicide is going to get reported one way or another. 340 00:20:47,960 --> 00:20:50,560 Speaker 4: The ones that are not are very few, so that 341 00:20:51,240 --> 00:20:54,840 Speaker 4: those tend to I think show real trends. Now, the 342 00:20:54,920 --> 00:20:57,960 Speaker 4: other felonies, you know, we do have that sometimes you 343 00:20:58,080 --> 00:21:02,000 Speaker 4: have pressure on police to classify if you can possibly 344 00:21:02,040 --> 00:21:04,480 Speaker 4: recal classify a felony as a misdemeanor. 345 00:21:04,920 --> 00:21:05,320 Speaker 3: Do it. 346 00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:09,359 Speaker 4: I don't know how widespread that is. You have also 347 00:21:09,520 --> 00:21:13,560 Speaker 4: two different tests. You have crime data that the FBI 348 00:21:13,680 --> 00:21:15,919 Speaker 4: has traditionally published. It used to be that called the 349 00:21:16,000 --> 00:21:19,520 Speaker 4: Uniform Crime Reports. Now it's a different acronym that is 350 00:21:20,200 --> 00:21:25,359 Speaker 4: National Reporting Bureau of I'm not sure it's NBBRS or 351 00:21:25,400 --> 00:21:29,080 Speaker 4: something that's a different it's a more complicated reporting system, 352 00:21:29,119 --> 00:21:33,919 Speaker 4: but it's basically police data. So they report their arrests. 353 00:21:34,359 --> 00:21:37,880 Speaker 4: And then there's a completely different source, which is surveys 354 00:21:37,960 --> 00:21:42,760 Speaker 4: of the American public and those are National Crime Victim Surveys, 355 00:21:42,920 --> 00:21:48,560 Speaker 4: and so what is usually the case is that if 356 00:21:48,640 --> 00:21:52,640 Speaker 4: you ask victims if they've been victimized in the previous year, 357 00:21:52,960 --> 00:21:56,879 Speaker 4: those crime numbers are much much higher than the FBI 358 00:21:57,000 --> 00:22:02,000 Speaker 4: reports through police data arrest because a lot of people 359 00:22:02,080 --> 00:22:06,000 Speaker 4: don't bother going forward to report their crime because they 360 00:22:06,040 --> 00:22:08,960 Speaker 4: believe that the police are at this point indifferent to 361 00:22:09,080 --> 00:22:12,760 Speaker 4: theft or burglary. So sometimes you have the FBI data 362 00:22:12,800 --> 00:22:17,320 Speaker 4: going down and the National Crime Victim Surveys data going up, 363 00:22:17,520 --> 00:22:20,800 Speaker 4: So you sort of have to hope that it's consistently 364 00:22:21,080 --> 00:22:23,639 Speaker 4: wrong in one direction. Or the other, as opposed to 365 00:22:23,680 --> 00:22:26,800 Speaker 4: bouncing around from year to year. I tend to think 366 00:22:26,840 --> 00:22:30,560 Speaker 4: I'm content to use the data. I'm not going to 367 00:22:30,680 --> 00:22:33,159 Speaker 4: spend a whole lot of time trying to discredit it 368 00:22:33,560 --> 00:22:38,800 Speaker 4: because I think it is consistent. Whether it's consistently wrong 369 00:22:38,880 --> 00:22:42,000 Speaker 4: by five ten percent each year doesn't really matter as 370 00:22:42,119 --> 00:22:44,840 Speaker 4: much as being able to assess those trends. 371 00:22:45,840 --> 00:22:47,800 Speaker 1: I guess that makes a lot of sense. About the homicides, 372 00:22:47,880 --> 00:22:49,920 Speaker 1: or you're either dead or alive. You can't hide the 373 00:22:49,960 --> 00:22:52,800 Speaker 1: bodies really, Yeah, yeah, yeah, i'd see how one or 374 00:22:52,840 --> 00:22:53,120 Speaker 1: the other. 375 00:22:53,920 --> 00:22:55,919 Speaker 2: Is there anything else you'd like to leave us with before. 376 00:22:55,640 --> 00:23:00,000 Speaker 4: We go, Heather, you're a very strong voice for saying 377 00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:06,000 Speaker 4: government bourgeois values and people should not accept that they 378 00:23:06,119 --> 00:23:09,679 Speaker 4: have to live with disorder in their lives. They should 379 00:23:09,680 --> 00:23:14,199 Speaker 4: demand much more from their government and not accept that 380 00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:17,040 Speaker 4: their children have to grow up in if they if 381 00:23:17,080 --> 00:23:20,040 Speaker 4: they're in a city or you know, using a city, 382 00:23:20,480 --> 00:23:24,840 Speaker 4: that they have to live with this type of human degradation. 383 00:23:25,040 --> 00:23:27,320 Speaker 4: It's just it's not normal, and we should all have 384 00:23:27,520 --> 00:23:30,800 Speaker 4: much higher expectations and higher demands for our governments. 385 00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:33,840 Speaker 1: It's crazy. And then you're also your your book. When 386 00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:36,400 Speaker 1: Trump or when raised. Trump's merit is also out. You're 387 00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:38,119 Speaker 1: also the New York Times best selling author of The 388 00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:42,000 Speaker 1: Warren Cops, which is a great book. Header McDonald, appreciate 389 00:23:42,040 --> 00:23:44,720 Speaker 1: your work. Always learn a lot from you, so appreciate 390 00:23:44,720 --> 00:23:45,480 Speaker 1: you making the time. 391 00:23:46,080 --> 00:23:47,639 Speaker 3: Thanks so much, Lisa, great talking with you. 392 00:23:47,880 --> 00:23:50,200 Speaker 1: That was Header McDonald. Appreciate her for making the time 393 00:23:50,240 --> 00:23:52,280 Speaker 1: to come on the show. Appreciate you guys at home 394 00:23:52,320 --> 00:23:55,080 Speaker 1: for listening every Tuesday and Thursday, but you can listen 395 00:23:55,080 --> 00:23:56,720 Speaker 1: throughout the week. I was some one of the things 396 00:23:56,760 --> 00:23:58,879 Speaker 1: John Cassie and my producer for putting the show together. 397 00:23:58,960 --> 00:23:59,640 Speaker 2: Until next time.