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Speaker 1: Happy Wednesday. Cardinal Territory fam Katie Wi and Bernie Michlis

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Speaker 1: back at you to preview the final game of the

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Speaker 1: Cardinals as series Saint Louis. Fresh off a two to

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Speaker 1: one win over the A's on Tuesday, they'll go for

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Speaker 1: the rubber match today behind Matthew Liberator. But if you

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Speaker 1: are listening to this podcast, you're probably here to talk

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Speaker 1: or listen to about Jordan Walker, Bernie. On your show

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Speaker 1: on the Gashouse Gang on cam Ox yesterday, manager Allie

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Speaker 1: Marmele and hitting coach Brandon Brown joined you, Tom Ackerman

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Speaker 1: and Chris Ronji as they do every too, Ollie Marmle

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Speaker 1: does every Tuesday at least, and some interesting conversation and

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Speaker 1: discourse was had about Jordan Walker. We know it has

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Speaker 1: not been the season that either he or the Cardinals

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Speaker 1: were hoping for at the plate. Let's dive into some

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Speaker 1: of those comments, Bernie, because I mean that was about

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Speaker 1: as candida as we've seen the coaching staff about a

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Speaker 1: player all year.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, listen, First of all, I want to just kind

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Speaker 2: of let everybody know who has a listen to that show.

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Speaker 2: You know, Ali's been doing it all season on Tuesdays

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Speaker 2: at noon on cam Wax and it's always available online afterwards.

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Speaker 2: So I wanted to throw that out there. But the

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Speaker 2: thing about Ali is he he actually approached cam Wax

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Speaker 2: and he said, I don't feel like people, you know,

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Speaker 2: fans generally speaking, got a true sense of me. They

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Speaker 2: just see, they read a couple of quotes, they see little,

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Speaker 2: they see a little, you know, two or three minutes

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Speaker 2: of video and that's it. And he wanted to branch

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Speaker 2: out and like really get into some deeper discussions. And

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Speaker 2: he made it clear to me he wanted any question

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Speaker 2: that I had in mind, Like in other words, he

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Speaker 2: wasn't expecting me or anyone else to shy away from

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Speaker 2: asking him stuff that might be sensitive. And he's been great,

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Speaker 2: and I think actually fans that have bothered to take

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Speaker 2: the time to watch it have been impressed by him

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Speaker 2: and the fact that he's candid, he'll take on any

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Speaker 2: question and you know, handles himself very well. I think

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Speaker 2: they're seeing a different side to him. So I've enjoyed

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Speaker 2: doing it and I do. I totally respect him for

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Speaker 2: putting it out there. And during the show too, there's

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Speaker 2: a comments section and you have the usual people that

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Speaker 2: you know instead of asking him a question or even

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Speaker 2: just offering constructive criticism. You know, they'll attack him personally

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Speaker 2: and all that stuff. So you're never going to get

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Speaker 2: rid of those people. But he doesn't care about that either.

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Speaker 2: He just shakes it off, he laughs it off. So anyway,

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Speaker 2: I didn't mean to take up too much time on that. Anyway,

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Speaker 2: you know, I asked the question that got the ball

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Speaker 2: rolling about Jordan Walker, and you know, basically said, ask Brownie,

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Speaker 2: what progress, if any, are you seeing? And you know,

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Speaker 2: what is he going to have to do to get going?

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Speaker 2: And you know, Brownie, you know, he wasn't hostile, he

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Speaker 2: wasn't like disrespectful. He just basically said, he's got to

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Speaker 2: got to be more devoted to preparation. They're basically saying

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Speaker 2: he's got to work harder, he's got to dig in more,

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Speaker 2: he's got to study pictures more. And then you know

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Speaker 2: there were some things in there too, basically saying, you know,

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Speaker 2: they're giving him a plan, they're giving him an approach.

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Speaker 2: They have very specific instructions that will make him better.

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Speaker 2: And they continue to tell him they believe in him,

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Speaker 2: but he'll he'll try to do it their way, and

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Speaker 2: then he's uncomfortable and then he sort of reverts back

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Speaker 2: to what he was doing and then it just gets

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Speaker 2: worse and worse and worse. And as as Brownie said,

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Speaker 2: you know, they just have this back and forth going

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Speaker 2: on and on and on that way, and they can't

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Speaker 2: get out of that cycle where they kind of repeat

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Speaker 2: the same cycle over and over again. So I think

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Speaker 2: they're frustrated, but people need to know that they still

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Speaker 2: you know, they have not given up on him. But Katie,

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Speaker 2: you and I have talked about this this season final

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Speaker 2: thing I'll say with Jordan Walker, I mean, and even

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Speaker 2: Nolan Gorman earlier. They oli also made it clear that

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Speaker 2: playing time had to be earned. So I think they're

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Speaker 2: being assisting with that. There's really no reason to play

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Speaker 2: Jordan Walker that much right now because he's he's been

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Speaker 2: totally lost at the play.

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Speaker 1: So I think the discourse with Jordan is so interesting

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Speaker 1: because at the beginning of the year he was recognized, prioritized,

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Speaker 1: whatever words you want to use, by John Mozelock as

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Speaker 1: the player to figure it out this season, this transition year,

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Speaker 1: this Runway season, whatever annoying term you want to describe

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Speaker 1: it as applied to Jordan Walker specifically, and I'll backtrack

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Speaker 1: so that people who might have missed Bran Brown's interview,

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Speaker 1: if you have, I fully recommend you check it out

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Speaker 1: available on kmox or on Twitter. They post the recordings

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Speaker 1: there every day. Here's what Bran Brown said about Jordan

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Speaker 1: Walker from a preparation standpoint on your show, Bernie. He said,

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Speaker 1: at some point in time, Walker's going to have to

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Speaker 1: devote more focus on preparation. One thing with him is

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Speaker 1: we've played a massive game of tennis, going back and

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Speaker 1: forth with what he feels like he needs to do

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Speaker 1: versus what he really needs to do. But for me,

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Speaker 1: there's a really easy way out. He might have to

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Speaker 1: be a little bit more uncomfortable to be able to

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Speaker 1: achieve what we wanted to do achieve. So to me,

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Speaker 1: that is it's a two part thing when we're looking

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Speaker 1: at Jordan Walker. One is about establishing an approach, which

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Speaker 1: the Cardinals have done all season long. The second part

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Speaker 1: is committing to an approach. I'll go back to our

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Speaker 1: earlier banner here. It's very clear to me, and in

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Speaker 1: my conversation with Jordan I spoke to him yesterday before

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Speaker 1: the game, he said as well, when things start to

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Speaker 1: turn and he starts to struggle, Walker has not committed

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Speaker 1: to sticking with that approach in those times of struggle. Now,

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Speaker 1: it can be human nature when things are going poorly,

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Speaker 1: to revert back to what is comfortable. Walker will be

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Speaker 1: the first to say, this new approach is something that's

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Speaker 1: not how similar to how I grew up hitting, how

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Speaker 1: I started my career. It's different. I'll say, different doesn't

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Speaker 1: mean bad, but it is a change. It is an adjustment,

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Speaker 1: and that's why the Cardinals were giving him so long

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Speaker 1: to make that adjustment. But I asked him, I said,

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Speaker 1: would be fair to say that when you start to struggle?

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Speaker 1: Because since August tenth, I believe he is hitting one

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Speaker 1: thirty eight with an ops of four hundred and twenty

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Speaker 1: three strikeouts. So yeah, things are not going well. Is

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Speaker 1: it safe to say that you inadvertently maybe revert back

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Speaker 1: to what you're comfortable with instead of sticking with the approach,

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Speaker 1: and that's when things get out of hand? And he

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Speaker 1: said yes. I'll read his quote here in the Athletic.

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Speaker 1: He said, sometimes I do that, but not consciously. I'll

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Speaker 1: get in the box and think this is what's comfortable

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Speaker 1: right now, and it might be something that I used

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Speaker 1: to do. Looking at the tape, I'm standing wide and

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Speaker 1: getting more into my legs, and I'm stepping towards the plate.

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Speaker 1: Even when I'm going bad, I'm doing that. It doesn't

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Speaker 1: feel like my old swing at all, going back to

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Speaker 1: I guess what is comfortable. But when I look at

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Speaker 1: the tape, doesn't look like the old swing.

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Speaker 2: Now.

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Speaker 1: I'm just trying to keep towards the approach, and I

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Speaker 1: agree when you look at Jordan Walker's stance it's different.

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Speaker 1: The approach though, changes almost every week based on how

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Speaker 1: he's feeling, and that's I think where the frustration is

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Speaker 1: from the coaching staff to the player. I agree with you, Bernie,

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Speaker 1: Allie Marmel and Bran Brown are still very high on

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Speaker 1: Jordan Walker. I actually think this is probably the most

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Speaker 1: optimistic they felt about him in quite a while. At

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Speaker 1: some point it's on the player to commit to an approach,

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Speaker 1: and talking to Jordan yesterday, it seemed clear that he

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Speaker 1: understands he needs to do that. Now he has three

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Speaker 1: weeks or so to prove that he can.

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Speaker 2: And you know, and we need to point out which

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Speaker 2: we have and we will. They only want what's best

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Speaker 2: for him. It's not like they're messing with him just

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Speaker 2: to mess with him. They're not screwing around. I mean,

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Speaker 2: Brent Brown has helped so many hitters during his career,

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Speaker 2: including Lake career Albert Pooles, who swears by him, and

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Speaker 2: so I have limited empathy for Walker from the standpoint

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Speaker 2: that they're doing everything they can to help them. They're

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Speaker 2: giving him a very specific plan, and they don't change

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Speaker 2: the plan. They're not all over the map with it.

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Speaker 2: It's very much to find what they want him to do.

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Speaker 2: How he's got a change to get their results, and

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Speaker 2: as you just pointed out, and after talking to him,

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Speaker 2: he tries it, he feels a little uncomfortable, as Brent

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Speaker 2: Brown limited to or he alluded to, sorry, where it's like, well,

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Speaker 2: he feels uncompmfortable, so he just I'm going to go

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Speaker 2: back to what feels comfortable, even though he gets terrible

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Speaker 2: results when he does it. So they're they're really trying everything,

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Speaker 2: and I think they're totally genuine in terms of their

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Speaker 2: belief in him. They're they're a little frustrated with them.

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Speaker 2: That's okay, You're they're allowed to be frustrated. But I

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Speaker 2: also think it was time for some you know, straightforward talk,

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Speaker 2: and they delivered that on the show, and I don't

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Speaker 2: know that that was because they thought they had to

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Speaker 2: send him a message publicly. Oli Marmel doesn't operate that way.

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Speaker 2: I think Brent Brown is kind of like if you

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Speaker 2: ask him a question, he's going to tell you what

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Speaker 2: he thinks. He doesn't care whether it's it's in the

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Speaker 2: dugout or it's on the radio, or wherever it is.

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Speaker 2: So I hope that for his sake, I hope Walker

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Speaker 2: understands what they're trying to do here. And I know

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Speaker 2: that there are some fans are gonna say, well, he

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Speaker 2: did find as a rookie, so why did they change anything. Well,

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Speaker 2: you know, you could probably elaborate on that. I mean,

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Speaker 2: a guy that's sixty six and two hundred and fifty

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Speaker 2: pounds and hits the ball that hard and hits it

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Speaker 2: that far when he makes contact, which is the real problem.

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Speaker 2: I don't think the team's crazy to say, you know what,

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Speaker 2: you got to channel that strength differently. You know, we

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Speaker 2: don't want you like your game should not be groundball singles,

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Speaker 2: hard hit ground balls, but still ground balls. If you

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Speaker 2: get the ball in the air, good things will happen.

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Speaker 2: So you know, this is hardly a radical thing that

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Speaker 2: they have asked him to do. In fact, I would

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Speaker 2: say that it's very typical. I would say that it's

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Speaker 2: very common. You know. It's not like they're you know,

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Speaker 2: coming out of left field with some outlandishesoteric hitting approach.

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Speaker 2: You're a big, strong guy, and if you can start

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Speaker 2: to pull the ball and get some lyft, the numbers

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Speaker 2: will be outstanding. Because I've heard fans actually just imply basically, okay,

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Speaker 2: just let them be, you know, a singles hitter. No,

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Speaker 2: you know that that actually would be given up on him, right.

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Speaker 1: This is not a singles hitter game anymore. And for

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Speaker 1: Jordan Walker, well.

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Speaker 2: Let me tell you in stan Saint Louis it is

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Speaker 2: just so you know, but anyway goes a.

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Speaker 1: Lot of things with Jordan Walker. You're spot on Bernie

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Speaker 1: with his athleticism and his power and his stature and

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Speaker 1: his speed. You are doing him a disservice if you

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Speaker 1: let him stick to that approach where it's mostly ground balls. Yes,

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Speaker 1: hard hit that exit Beulow is real, but he's not

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Speaker 1: nearly touching his ceiling unless he adjusts to the way

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Speaker 1: that he's being pitched at the Major League level which

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Speaker 1: he's still having trouble doing.

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Speaker 2: So.

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Speaker 1: He's twenty three years old. Okay, so let's pump the

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Speaker 1: brakes a little bit on the Oh, it's time to

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Speaker 1: move on from the Jordan Walker experiment. Absolutely not. He

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Speaker 1: was a first round pick in twenty twenty, a former

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Speaker 1: top one hundred prospect in MLB and he's twenty three.

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Speaker 1: Give him the time. This is the time in the

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Speaker 1: organization where they can actually afford to do so. And

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Speaker 1: in years, you know, the last ten years, there would

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Speaker 1: not be a window for Jordan Walker. So let's, you know,

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Speaker 1: understand that there needs to be more of a buy

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Speaker 1: in from the play who and I'll read some more

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Speaker 1: quotes from Jordan seems to understand that now as we

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Speaker 1: roll into September and that runways all of a sudden

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Speaker 1: coming up to a clear end. But for Walker, when

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Speaker 1: you're looking at who he is as a player, I

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Speaker 1: mean this quote right here from Ollie Marmel yesterday in

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Speaker 1: the pregame media scrum, I think shows exactly how the

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Speaker 1: organization feels about him. Allie said he was candid. We

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Speaker 1: have not seen the consistency that we would have hoped

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Speaker 1: for by now regarding Walker Our hope is that changes.

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Speaker 1: He is still young, and this could flip at any moment.

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Speaker 1: We've seen other players where that's the case, where it's

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Speaker 1: an off season away type of thing. But there's real

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Speaker 1: work to be done here, and there's a real level

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Speaker 1: of dedication and consistency that come with it. And here's

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Speaker 1: what Jordan Walker said, I just need to be consistent

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Speaker 1: with the approach. Figure out what is that fault when

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Speaker 1: things are going bad? What's going well when things are

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Speaker 1: going good? I asked Jordan, then what does he need

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Speaker 1: to see in the final three weeks of the season,

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Speaker 1: and he said, better play, better discipline. Play discipline is

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Speaker 1: where I really need to show the biggest growth in

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Speaker 1: my personal opinion. Once the play discipline is there, I'll

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Speaker 1: get something to hit and I'll hammer it or I'll walk.

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Speaker 1: Play discipline approach often tie in. They're very similar. So

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Speaker 1: the manager, the hitting coach, and the player are saying

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Speaker 1: the same thing. Now can Jordan do it? That is

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Speaker 1: the big question of something that Bernie, you and I

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Speaker 1: It stresses me out. It really does. Every time I

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Speaker 1: hear it, I actually like puts me in a weird mood.

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Speaker 1: I do not like hearing it.

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Speaker 2: I'm doing this. I'm doing the same thing now at

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Speaker 2: Stales Sports Center with some new DraftKings copy which I'm

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Speaker 2: happy to read. But uh yeah I haven't. I haven't

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Speaker 2: stu I have. I haven't stumbled around too too badly.

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Speaker 2: So I'll do it, Okay, not as good as you though.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well you know you got to bring the best

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Speaker 1: for our sponsors, So that's right. No, that was a

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Speaker 1: lot anyway. Anyway, Bertie, let this. I think it's safe

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Speaker 1: to say this will probably just be a Walker episode

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Speaker 1: because there is so much to break down here. Now

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Speaker 1: that we know kind of where the rooted issue is,

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Speaker 1: and I don't want this to come across as Jordan

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Speaker 1: being like defiant. Okay, I also agree with you that

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Speaker 1: this is not a situation where the Cardinals are really

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Speaker 1: asking him to do anything outside of the ordinary. They

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Speaker 1: already did that when they asked him to play Major

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Speaker 1: League played. The outfield in the major leagues was six

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Speaker 1: weeks of prep. Okay, that was outrageous. This is what

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Speaker 1: almost every player in the big leagues is asked to

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Speaker 1: do at some point in their career. Adapt and change

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Speaker 1: your approach, and that can be really hard. In twenty

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Speaker 1: three and twenty four, Jordan what was doing that? And

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Speaker 1: he knew if he didn't hint in two or three weeks,

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Speaker 1: he was going right back to the miners this year.

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Speaker 1: That was the whole point. He wouldn't have to go

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Speaker 1: back to the miners. They identified that before the season

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Speaker 1: even started. Regardless of results, Walker is going to play.

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Speaker 1: Now it's September, so that philosophy doesn't fly as hard

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Speaker 1: as it did in the first half. To your point,

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Speaker 1: he hasn't been playing well, and the Cardinals wild reward

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Speaker 1: playing time to the players that have seized the opportunity

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Speaker 1: throughout the season. That doesn't mean they're giving up on Jordan.

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Speaker 1: It just means they need to see more of a

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Speaker 1: commit meant to what they believe is the right approach. So,

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Speaker 1: if that being said, Bernie, with twenty plus games left

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Speaker 1: in this twenty twenty five season, what should we expect

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Speaker 1: from Walker to finish the year? That would if he

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Speaker 1: finishes it this way per se? How would you be

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Speaker 1: optimistic about that?

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Speaker 2: Well? I probably wouldn't. I mean, listen, I don't rule

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Speaker 2: out the fact that he might go on a nice

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Speaker 2: run here over the final three weeks, but I don't

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Speaker 2: know that I would have faith in it because you

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Speaker 2: get into twenty twenty six and then he starts off

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Speaker 2: slowly things like that. I mean, we've seen this cycle

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Speaker 2: over and over again, and then he loses his confidence

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Speaker 2: and he presses and he starts swinging and everything again.

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Speaker 2: He gets away from the plan. It's just his never,

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Speaker 2: never ending thing. It just you never know when to

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Speaker 2: trust it. You're starting to feel good about him and

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Speaker 2: then it just falls apart again. And the one thing

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Speaker 2: I'll say that really does bother me about Jordan Walker.

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Speaker 2: I want what's best for him. I'm hoping for him

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Speaker 2: to succeed. I am not a Jodan Walker hater by

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Speaker 2: any stretch of the imagination, but it does trouble me

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Speaker 2: when you have the hitting coach and the manager basically

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Speaker 2: saying he lacks commitment, you know, And that reduces my

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Speaker 2: level of empathy, I would say, because you would think

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Speaker 2: that after failing you know so much, and he's obviously frustrated,

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Speaker 2: he wants to do well. But after failing so much

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Speaker 2: and having to you know, always hear about basically the

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Speaker 2: fact that he's doing so poorly, I would think that

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Speaker 2: he would just be motivated to the max to just

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Speaker 2: go total buy in with everything Brent Brown's teaching. And

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Speaker 2: he ought to start by calling Albert poolholes because Albert

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Speaker 2: pool holes is to tell them what he did for Albert,

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Speaker 2: and he did a lot for Albert. This is one

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Speaker 2: of the great hitters in the history of the game.

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Speaker 2: So Jordan's got to make that total buy in. And

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Speaker 2: I like what he said to you. I read those

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Speaker 2: comments in your story, which was well done. As always,

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Speaker 2: I really like what he said, but I hope this

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Speaker 2: time he really, really really means it, because we sort

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Speaker 2: of have heard this before and I'm not saying he's

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Speaker 2: being dishonest or anything like, not at all, But as

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Speaker 2: soon as he gets frustrated, it's sure he goes back

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Speaker 2: to his natural reflex and he gets off course again.

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Speaker 2: But man, you know you got to buy in, You

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Speaker 2: got you got to buy in totally, and you got

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Speaker 2: to stay bought in. I mean, Brent Brown and these

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Speaker 2: coaches have have have helped Alec Burlison. They've gotten him

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Speaker 2: to a new level. I know Nolan Gorman is is

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Speaker 2: in a really bad spot again, so I don't know

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Speaker 2: where that's gonna lead, but they had made a lot

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Speaker 2: of headway with Nolan Gorman, who who followed their their formula.

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Speaker 2: And they've also done the same with Pedro Pahes who

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Speaker 2: all of a sudden is a good hitter. They're not

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Speaker 2: the only ones. I mean, they are getting results from

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Speaker 2: some young hitters that have bought in. And Jordan Walker

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Speaker 2: has just got to buy in. And if he does that,

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Speaker 2: I would feel a lot better about his future. But

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Speaker 2: right now I'm pessimistic, not unreasonably so, but I would

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Speaker 2: have to say I'm more pessimistic than optimistic.

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Speaker 1: I think that's fair. And I also think that penning

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Speaker 1: this on one hitting coach. Jordan Walker's had three hitting

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Speaker 1: coaches all right, russ Steinhorne. He worked really well with

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Speaker 1: russ Steinhorn, a former hitting coordinator for the organization down

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Speaker 1: in the minor leagues. You think about what Turner Ward

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Speaker 1: was doing here and now you have Bran Brown like there.

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Speaker 1: I don't think it has anything to do with one

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Speaker 1: specific hitting coach, although what Bran Brown has been doing

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Speaker 1: I think is again the most buy in that we've

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Speaker 1: seen from players. Still with Jordan, some work to be

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Speaker 1: done obviously for Walker. I'm with you. I don't think

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Speaker 1: a hot three weeks to finish the season is going

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Speaker 1: to negate five months of lackluster performance. I mean, he

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Speaker 1: has no ps under six hundred on the season, he said,

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Speaker 1: just five homers. The strikeout rate is very high. What

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Speaker 1: I would love to see from Jordan to finish. It's

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Speaker 1: just a strong run. But I honestly think we won't

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Speaker 1: be able to define what's next for him or what

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Speaker 1: the expectations are for him next season until heim Bloom

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Speaker 1: takes over one thing that I will admit it's unfair

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Speaker 1: that reporters do, but it's kind of unfortunate the nature

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Speaker 1: of the business right now is. We've continued to ask

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Speaker 1: Ollie marmal about the development of players and evaluation by

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Speaker 1: the organization. It is his job and his coaching staff's

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Speaker 1: job to develop the players at the big league level.

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Speaker 1: Whether or not that should be happening at the major

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Speaker 1: leagues we can, we can debate, but that's where the

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Speaker 1: Cardinals are right now, and that's what they've defined as

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Speaker 1: the coaching staff's priority. It should not be on the

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Speaker 1: manager to also speak on how the organization views these players.

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Speaker 1: But because of where the Cardinals are in the transition season,

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Speaker 1: John Mozelak is still the voice of the Cardinals and

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Speaker 1: is still communicating the message of the players on the

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Speaker 1: major league roster. Heim Bloom is the one that is

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Speaker 1: going to be evaluating Jordan Walker and where he fits

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Speaker 1: in next year. So for more to go out and

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Speaker 1: speak on the evaluation of Walker doesn't really do a

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Speaker 1: lot for really, not that I don't care what Mo says,

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Speaker 1: but I if I'm a fan or if I'm evaluating

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Speaker 1: the future of the organization, what Mo thinks of a

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Speaker 1: player right now doesn't say much to what it means

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Speaker 1: for that player's future because he won't be there. I

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Speaker 1: would really like to hear one time and Rob's folio

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Speaker 1: and Larry Day feel about Jordan Walker, and I think

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Speaker 1: we'll get more of an indication after the end of

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Speaker 1: the season. I don't think Walker can just erase the

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Speaker 1: five months of honest disappointing a disappointing season. He can

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Speaker 1: in the next three weeks show some semblance of committing

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Speaker 1: to the approach turning things around. It's not really going

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Speaker 1: to reflect in the box score, but give this new

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Speaker 1: front office a reason for optimism, a reason to believe

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Speaker 1: that with a new off season, with continued new people

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Speaker 1: in personnel in the minor leagues out of the complex,

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Speaker 1: that they can continue to build upon this. I wouldn't

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Speaker 1: say it's a lost season for Jordan. I will say

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Speaker 1: it's a disappointing one. But there is still time for

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Speaker 1: him to give give the front office something and see

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Speaker 1: what this new personnel can do over the off season,

430
00:20:58,160 --> 00:21:00,480
Speaker 1: and we'll have a better idea of Jordan Walker come

431
00:21:00,520 --> 00:21:03,040
Speaker 1: spring training. It's a toxic cycle. I know for some

432
00:21:03,119 --> 00:21:05,440
Speaker 1: players it's worth it, though, and I believe Jordan Walker

433
00:21:05,520 --> 00:21:06,000
Speaker 1: is worth it.

434
00:21:06,960 --> 00:21:08,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a lot of stake here because if you

435
00:21:08,600 --> 00:21:13,479
Speaker 2: look at the Cardinals system. Okay, Joshua Obiaz, who they

436
00:21:13,560 --> 00:21:15,840
Speaker 2: drafted him out of high school in twenty twenty one,

437
00:21:16,280 --> 00:21:18,600
Speaker 2: the year after they drafted Walker out of high school,

438
00:21:19,280 --> 00:21:23,320
Speaker 2: and Joshua Baya, Joshua Bias is it's interesting to compare

439
00:21:23,359 --> 00:21:28,679
Speaker 2: the two. Josh Joshua Biaz really really really struggled, you know,

440
00:21:28,760 --> 00:21:31,199
Speaker 2: coming out of high school. He didn't do anything, you know,

441
00:21:31,440 --> 00:21:36,160
Speaker 2: up until this year, and his prospect light had faded.

442
00:21:36,200 --> 00:21:37,719
Speaker 2: He was still good. They were still going to keep

443
00:21:37,760 --> 00:21:39,280
Speaker 2: him around, but all of a sudden, he's a hot

444
00:21:39,280 --> 00:21:43,400
Speaker 2: prospect again. He finally figured it out. It finally clicked.

445
00:21:44,119 --> 00:21:46,560
Speaker 2: And that's one thing I haven't brought up. I look

446
00:21:46,600 --> 00:21:49,159
Speaker 2: at it. I actually look at I should have like

447
00:21:49,240 --> 00:21:51,879
Speaker 2: written about this, Actually I look at it. Joshua O

448
00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:54,359
Speaker 2: Bias And even though it's happening in the minor leagues,

449
00:21:55,960 --> 00:21:58,479
Speaker 2: when people were starting to doubt that it would ever happen,

450
00:21:58,640 --> 00:22:01,120
Speaker 2: all of a sudden, the kids failigured everything out. He's

451
00:22:01,119 --> 00:22:04,359
Speaker 2: still very very young, and he'll be knocking on the

452
00:22:04,359 --> 00:22:06,560
Speaker 2: door of the major leagues next season. At some point

453
00:22:06,640 --> 00:22:09,680
Speaker 2: he will be. I mean, he's got thirty stolen bases,

454
00:22:10,240 --> 00:22:13,040
Speaker 2: he's cut down and strikeout rate by a huge amount.

455
00:22:13,119 --> 00:22:17,320
Speaker 2: He'll draw walks now hits for average. I mean, he's

456
00:22:17,359 --> 00:22:19,560
Speaker 2: got a really great on base present. All of a

457
00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:21,960
Speaker 2: sudden he's figured it out. Now he'll have to do

458
00:22:22,080 --> 00:22:25,119
Speaker 2: that at the major league level. But anyway, the reason

459
00:22:25,119 --> 00:22:27,439
Speaker 2: why I'm pointing that out because I'm not trying to

460
00:22:27,480 --> 00:22:32,159
Speaker 2: dismiss any other Cardinals prospects outfielders. That's one guy for

461
00:22:32,240 --> 00:22:35,560
Speaker 2: sure who's on the rise, and he's rising quickly by.

462
00:22:36,960 --> 00:22:42,240
Speaker 2: But there's still time for Walker to establish himself next

463
00:22:42,320 --> 00:22:48,040
Speaker 2: year as like, no, I'm a centerpiece. You're not going

464
00:22:48,119 --> 00:22:51,920
Speaker 2: to replace me. You know, I'm playing in my territory here.

465
00:22:52,760 --> 00:22:55,280
Speaker 2: This is when it happens, this is where I get

466
00:22:55,320 --> 00:22:59,240
Speaker 2: it done. Believe in me because I'll show you, and

467
00:22:59,440 --> 00:23:01,960
Speaker 2: you know, you look at it that way, and every

468
00:23:01,960 --> 00:23:04,240
Speaker 2: player is different. They're not wired the same way. So

469
00:23:04,320 --> 00:23:06,720
Speaker 2: it's hard for me to say, well, he should be

470
00:23:06,800 --> 00:23:09,520
Speaker 2: like this guy, he should be like that guy. It

471
00:23:09,560 --> 00:23:11,800
Speaker 2: came really easy for him in the major in the

472
00:23:11,840 --> 00:23:15,760
Speaker 2: minor leagues, talking about Walker, whereas Baiaz couldn't figure anything

473
00:23:15,760 --> 00:23:19,560
Speaker 2: out in the minor leagues. But Bias maybe because he

474
00:23:19,640 --> 00:23:22,679
Speaker 2: had extra time down there, maybe that's what he needed.

475
00:23:22,760 --> 00:23:25,600
Speaker 2: I don't know, Maybe Walker came to the big leagues

476
00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:29,439
Speaker 2: too soon. It's easy to second guess that now. On

477
00:23:29,480 --> 00:23:31,520
Speaker 2: the other hand, he was good as a rookie, so

478
00:23:32,280 --> 00:23:35,480
Speaker 2: it's a very confusing thing. But it's not like they

479
00:23:35,520 --> 00:23:39,160
Speaker 2: have five or six premium prospect outfielders knocking on the door,

480
00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:43,400
Speaker 2: so there's no rush to trade him. They because it's

481
00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:46,000
Speaker 2: a rebuild that they still have hein Blum in his

482
00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:50,080
Speaker 2: his people. They have plenty of time to try to

483
00:23:50,119 --> 00:23:53,960
Speaker 2: get Jordan Walker turned around, because that's what a rebuild

484
00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:57,440
Speaker 2: is all about. And so Walker figures prominent into that,

485
00:23:57,560 --> 00:24:02,080
Speaker 2: and there's not enough other prospects were passing him by.

486
00:24:02,119 --> 00:24:05,560
Speaker 2: So it's a good time for him after the season,

487
00:24:05,880 --> 00:24:09,680
Speaker 2: get through this final few weeks, it's a very good

488
00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:13,919
Speaker 2: time for him to kind of re establish himself, commit

489
00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:17,720
Speaker 2: to change, and give heim Bloom and his people confidence

490
00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:19,920
Speaker 2: that he's figuring something out.

491
00:24:20,359 --> 00:24:23,919
Speaker 1: Agreed. Agreed, and we are consistent on this podcast. We

492
00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:27,280
Speaker 1: have been Jordan Walker truthers since episode one. We remain

493
00:24:27,359 --> 00:24:30,280
Speaker 1: that way on episode ninety one. While acknowledging it has

494
00:24:30,320 --> 00:24:32,679
Speaker 1: not looked the way that we'd hoped or expected it to,

495
00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:36,560
Speaker 1: I still think there's no reason to give up on

496
00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:39,159
Speaker 1: this player just yet, there's no reason to get up

497
00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:41,840
Speaker 1: on a lot of these guys. Honestly, heading into twenty

498
00:24:41,920 --> 00:24:46,560
Speaker 1: twenty six, we'll hear from our pals at True Classics first,

499
00:24:46,560 --> 00:24:48,840
Speaker 1: and then I'll get into some interesting comments only Marvel

500
00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:51,680
Speaker 1: made about the progression of his roster. So we will

501
00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:52,280
Speaker 1: be right back.

502
00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:56,800
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525
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Speaker 1: All right. Our last segment before ending this podcast, we

526
00:25:59,040 --> 00:26:01,960
Speaker 1: had a long, about twenty minute conversation with Ollie Marvel

527
00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:05,760
Speaker 1: before Tuesday's game. Usually those sessions range to about fifteen minutes,

528
00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:08,520
Speaker 1: but this one was twenty five minutes. On the record

529
00:26:08,760 --> 00:26:11,760
Speaker 1: started with Jordan and progressed to the roster in general,

530
00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:15,000
Speaker 1: and I asked him and I said, I'm reading off

531
00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:17,399
Speaker 1: my transcript right now. I said, I'm not here to

532
00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:19,919
Speaker 1: say that every single player should have taken career strides

533
00:26:19,960 --> 00:26:22,600
Speaker 1: this season, But in your mind, is there anyone outside

534
00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:24,760
Speaker 1: of Burlison and Herrera that has either done what you

535
00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:28,040
Speaker 1: thought they should do this season or exceeded it? And

536
00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:31,119
Speaker 1: the way that Allie broke down player by player I

537
00:26:31,119 --> 00:26:34,119
Speaker 1: thought was super interesting. He started with Donovan, of course,

538
00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:37,320
Speaker 1: just had a career year. I know he's hurt right now,

539
00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:39,719
Speaker 1: so that's unfortunate, but his first half was really special,

540
00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:42,080
Speaker 1: and I think as an organization, you're confident in what

541
00:26:42,119 --> 00:26:44,600
Speaker 1: Donovan can bring to the table, whether or not you

542
00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:46,760
Speaker 1: trade him as a different story for a different episode.

543
00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:49,040
Speaker 1: But then he went and broke down the pieces that

544
00:26:49,080 --> 00:26:51,200
Speaker 1: we've been talking about pretty much all season in terms

545
00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:53,240
Speaker 1: of what they need to do in September to solidify

546
00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:56,120
Speaker 1: themselves next year. He said, Lars Nupar, we're seeing him

547
00:26:56,119 --> 00:26:58,160
Speaker 1: not be as one dimensional as a hitter. How he's

548
00:26:58,160 --> 00:27:00,920
Speaker 1: taking his approach, taking his singles the way and hitting

549
00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:02,840
Speaker 1: the ball through the middle of the field. He said,

550
00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:04,840
Speaker 1: that's what's next for Lars in his career. We know

551
00:27:04,880 --> 00:27:07,120
Speaker 1: if he sits dead and tries to pull what pull

552
00:27:07,119 --> 00:27:09,000
Speaker 1: any ball, we know what that looks like. He can

553
00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:11,040
Speaker 1: draw walks and run into ball's pull side. But we

554
00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:13,200
Speaker 1: want him to be more of a more dimensional hitter

555
00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:15,040
Speaker 1: right now, and I do think we are seeing that

556
00:27:15,080 --> 00:27:18,479
Speaker 1: from Lars. He broke down Burlison and Herrera said they

557
00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:22,360
Speaker 1: were absolute yeses in terms of improvement for Mason Win.

558
00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:25,080
Speaker 1: I'll he acknowledge the drop and average and ops, but

559
00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:27,800
Speaker 1: a huge gain and how he's approaching his events, and

560
00:27:27,880 --> 00:27:30,520
Speaker 1: like we just spent this whole episode talking about approach

561
00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:34,399
Speaker 1: is very important. He's less worried about short term than

562
00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:37,399
Speaker 1: results or short term result, and more about approach and

563
00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:39,840
Speaker 1: adjustability of what Mason's doing. So I think that also

564
00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:42,080
Speaker 1: goes back to what we talked about Bernie with guys

565
00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:45,040
Speaker 1: buying into Brent Brown's approach. We're seeing that from Mason

566
00:27:45,080 --> 00:27:47,040
Speaker 1: a little bit more, and I do believe the results

567
00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:50,280
Speaker 1: will follow. We've talked about Nolan Gorman all year long,

568
00:27:50,320 --> 00:27:53,080
Speaker 1: and his walk rate, the swing rate or the chase

569
00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:55,720
Speaker 1: rate is cut down. With Gorman, as we know, there's

570
00:27:55,760 --> 00:27:57,879
Speaker 1: always going to be that swing and miss. That's just

571
00:27:57,920 --> 00:27:59,960
Speaker 1: how he profiles. But it has looked better, not late,

572
00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:03,240
Speaker 1: but overall in a whole season, it's looked much better.

573
00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:05,720
Speaker 1: And then Victor Scott the second I thought this was interesting,

574
00:28:06,040 --> 00:28:08,399
Speaker 1: he said, Victor, I think was he's so raw in

575
00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:10,280
Speaker 1: his understanding of how he's being pitched to and how

576
00:28:10,320 --> 00:28:13,359
Speaker 1: to combat that that's just going to take time. That's

577
00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:15,399
Speaker 1: more of a just we want to see Victor continue

578
00:28:15,440 --> 00:28:18,240
Speaker 1: to do what he's doing, continue to prepare, don't change

579
00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:21,320
Speaker 1: anything as far as preparation, just give it time. And

580
00:28:21,320 --> 00:28:23,320
Speaker 1: then I only said it for me. Walker is the

581
00:28:23,359 --> 00:28:26,159
Speaker 1: one that essentially just has not lived up to the

582
00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:29,320
Speaker 1: expectations this season, when you break down those lists of players,

583
00:28:29,359 --> 00:28:31,840
Speaker 1: those core players that we assume until we're told otherwise,

584
00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:34,239
Speaker 1: will be on the team in twenty twenty six. I

585
00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:37,800
Speaker 1: actually think this transition season was helpful because for so

586
00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:40,360
Speaker 1: many of these players, you now know what to expect

587
00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:41,600
Speaker 1: coming in twenty twenty six.

588
00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:45,000
Speaker 2: No, I agree. I think it's been more positive in

589
00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:48,680
Speaker 2: terms of a case by case basis, and some of

590
00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:51,920
Speaker 2: the cases there's been both positive and negative. And like

591
00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:55,280
Speaker 2: I Nolan Gorman, for example, I asked Oli about Nolan

592
00:28:55,320 --> 00:29:00,320
Speaker 2: Gorman a lot, and Olie, you know when Gordon and

593
00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:02,960
Speaker 2: starting late May, you know, put together a run that

594
00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:08,000
Speaker 2: really continued until recently until late August, and now he's

595
00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:12,240
Speaker 2: really struggling again. You know, Ali always was complimentary and

596
00:29:12,280 --> 00:29:14,400
Speaker 2: he meant it, but he also held back a little bit.

597
00:29:15,040 --> 00:29:17,160
Speaker 2: I don't think they were entirely sold that he could

598
00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:19,600
Speaker 2: maintain the plate discipline that he started to show that

599
00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:22,320
Speaker 2: was long overdue, and they were grateful to see it.

600
00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:25,760
Speaker 2: And sure enough, I mean, and I'm a Gorman guy,

601
00:29:25,800 --> 00:29:28,680
Speaker 2: don't get me wrong, but sure enough, I mean, these

602
00:29:28,760 --> 00:29:32,000
Speaker 2: last seven or eight games or whatever it is, it's

603
00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:35,400
Speaker 2: it's like all the good stuff never happened. I mean,

604
00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:37,640
Speaker 2: he's got like a strikeout rate of fifty percent like

605
00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:42,200
Speaker 2: the last week or so, and so on one hand,

606
00:29:42,480 --> 00:29:44,560
Speaker 2: you saw the product. I think Gorman is like a

607
00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:46,720
Speaker 2: good example, like a good symbol of the of the

608
00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:49,680
Speaker 2: runway and all that stuff, because he did but he

609
00:29:49,800 --> 00:29:53,280
Speaker 2: totally bought into what they were preaching right, and he

610
00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:58,760
Speaker 2: got results. He absolutely got results, and he turned his

611
00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:02,720
Speaker 2: career trajectory or round. You know, from the from late

612
00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:05,800
Speaker 2: May until around the third week of August, he was,

613
00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:10,480
Speaker 2: if not the best hitter on the team, top two,

614
00:30:10,560 --> 00:30:13,600
Speaker 2: top three in every category. But now we see now

615
00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:15,560
Speaker 2: we see him kind of reverting, just the way we

616
00:30:15,600 --> 00:30:18,440
Speaker 2: saw you know, we're talking about Jordan Walker reverting. So

617
00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:23,640
Speaker 2: you see guys make progress and it's exciting. But then

618
00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:27,840
Speaker 2: with some of them, Gorman for sure, Walker for sure,

619
00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:30,840
Speaker 2: there's always this little thing in the back of your mind.

620
00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:33,959
Speaker 2: It's like, well, I don't know if I'm sold on

621
00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:37,000
Speaker 2: this quite yet, and I don't know if any other

622
00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:42,000
Speaker 2: type of hitters, you know, kind of qualify that group.

623
00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:44,240
Speaker 2: I mean, you look at Herrera. I was wondering with him,

624
00:30:44,360 --> 00:30:46,720
Speaker 2: like he hadn't hit for power in a while. He

625
00:30:46,720 --> 00:30:49,440
Speaker 2: he's kind of faded from the standpoint of you know,

626
00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:53,080
Speaker 2: oomph in his attack. But now he's gotten it back,

627
00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:55,680
Speaker 2: he's made adjustments, he's sticking in the strike zone better.

628
00:30:56,400 --> 00:30:59,520
Speaker 2: So that's another good example. Herrera has developed. Even in

629
00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:02,800
Speaker 2: the season where he had some problems, he's bounced back,

630
00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:04,880
Speaker 2: he's gotten back to what he has to do to

631
00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:07,840
Speaker 2: be successful, and we're seeing him rise again. So that's

632
00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:10,800
Speaker 2: a good sign. So on a case by case base is,

633
00:31:10,800 --> 00:31:13,360
Speaker 2: you can see some really good signs. You can see

634
00:31:13,360 --> 00:31:16,680
Speaker 2: some disappointments. You can see players who basically do both

635
00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:19,320
Speaker 2: of those things. You know, they're up and down, which

636
00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:21,800
Speaker 2: is baseball. So but all in all, on a case

637
00:31:21,840 --> 00:31:24,800
Speaker 2: by case basis, they did find out about several of

638
00:31:24,840 --> 00:31:27,400
Speaker 2: their guys, and I think that was important and a

639
00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:27,680
Speaker 2: lot of.

640
00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:30,280
Speaker 1: That to your point, Bernie, is baseball, like the whole

641
00:31:30,320 --> 00:31:34,520
Speaker 1: point of a season is to adjust. And then when

642
00:31:34,520 --> 00:31:39,000
Speaker 1: you pitchers start making adjustments towards you readjust every player slumps. Okay,

643
00:31:39,040 --> 00:31:40,880
Speaker 1: to go out there and say that Nolan Gorman was

644
00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:42,560
Speaker 1: not going to sump it all this season, or new

645
00:31:42,560 --> 00:31:45,320
Speaker 1: barton him and pick your player, even Burlison and Herrera,

646
00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:48,719
Speaker 1: the two I think most consistent offensive players have slumped

647
00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:51,960
Speaker 1: this year. That is baseball. What is important is that

648
00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:54,680
Speaker 1: these players continue to adjust like we've seen Herrera do,

649
00:31:54,880 --> 00:31:58,120
Speaker 1: like we've said Burlison do, Can we see Gorman do

650
00:31:58,160 --> 00:31:59,960
Speaker 1: that to finish the season. That's what I'm looking at.

651
00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:02,360
Speaker 1: A two week slump in the grand scheme of one

652
00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:05,280
Speaker 1: hundred and sixty two game season, that happening two or

653
00:32:05,280 --> 00:32:08,640
Speaker 1: three times a season, that does not even factor into

654
00:32:08,680 --> 00:32:11,800
Speaker 1: my evaluations as a player. You account for those and

655
00:32:11,840 --> 00:32:13,920
Speaker 1: you just figure they're going to happen, because that's what

656
00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:16,800
Speaker 1: happens in baseball. Your favorite hitter, whether that's Shoeo Tani,

657
00:32:16,800 --> 00:32:19,640
Speaker 1: whether that's Freddie Freeman, whether it's take your pick Aaron

658
00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:23,200
Speaker 1: Judge slumps. So the fact that Nolan Gorman is going

659
00:32:23,240 --> 00:32:25,520
Speaker 1: through something right now doesn't do a lot for me

660
00:32:25,600 --> 00:32:27,760
Speaker 1: on the worry scale. As long as he can show

661
00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:29,480
Speaker 1: in the final twenty or so games that he can

662
00:32:29,480 --> 00:32:31,200
Speaker 1: turn it around a little bit. That's what we need

663
00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:33,000
Speaker 1: to see from these players is how they adjust. Not

664
00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:35,120
Speaker 1: that they're slumping, because that's going to happen, but how

665
00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:37,120
Speaker 1: do they adjust and kick themselves out of it like

666
00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:39,880
Speaker 1: we've seen Herrera do over the last couple of games.

667
00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:43,440
Speaker 1: Can you make it three games with three homers? Let's see, Bernie.

668
00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:46,160
Speaker 1: We have Matthew libertore on the mound today. I thought

669
00:32:46,200 --> 00:32:49,959
Speaker 1: his outing in Cincinnati was better. I know it has

670
00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:52,360
Speaker 1: not been the second half that he had envisioned. But

671
00:32:52,440 --> 00:32:55,840
Speaker 1: one thing that a story I'm working on is changing

672
00:32:56,000 --> 00:32:59,840
Speaker 1: how we evaluate these pitchers. We are no longer looking

673
00:33:00,280 --> 00:33:02,719
Speaker 1: at box score results when it comes to the careers

674
00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:06,200
Speaker 1: of Matthew Libertor, Michael mcgreeby, and Andre Polante. We are looking

675
00:33:06,200 --> 00:33:09,000
Speaker 1: at the predictive stats to see what this team can

676
00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:11,120
Speaker 1: count on next season. It's not a great place to

677
00:33:11,160 --> 00:33:12,640
Speaker 1: be as a fan. You want to care about going

678
00:33:12,640 --> 00:33:14,120
Speaker 1: out there and when he never gave me, I get it.

679
00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:16,440
Speaker 1: But for what the Cardinals are trying to do, especially

680
00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:18,680
Speaker 1: with these three players, because we know how thin that

681
00:33:18,760 --> 00:33:21,720
Speaker 1: rotation looks next year, is to look at the stats

682
00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:24,520
Speaker 1: that predict how they're going to have future success and

683
00:33:24,560 --> 00:33:27,320
Speaker 1: where they measure up. For Libby, it's a lot about

684
00:33:27,320 --> 00:33:30,760
Speaker 1: different command of different pitches, sustaining below To an extent,

685
00:33:32,600 --> 00:33:35,240
Speaker 1: I'm less worried about what anying he gets to tonight.

686
00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:38,520
Speaker 1: I'm more interested to see where that pitch count is

687
00:33:38,640 --> 00:33:40,760
Speaker 1: when the below starts to drop, and I think that's

688
00:33:40,760 --> 00:33:43,440
Speaker 1: how the Cardinals are evaluating him as well. What would

689
00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:44,600
Speaker 1: you like to see from Libby tonight?

690
00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:46,960
Speaker 2: Well, I think you summed it up very well. I

691
00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:48,840
Speaker 2: don't know if I have anything really good to add.

692
00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:51,360
Speaker 2: I think he's still learning how to pitch as a

693
00:33:51,400 --> 00:33:54,360
Speaker 2: starting pitcher in the major leagues, which means you have

694
00:33:54,440 --> 00:33:59,160
Speaker 2: to diversify your pitch mix, you have to introduce new pitches,

695
00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:02,400
Speaker 2: which he's done at least, you know, with one pitch

696
00:34:02,400 --> 00:34:06,479
Speaker 2: he's thrown differently. Now he's made that adjustment, and you know,

697
00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:08,960
Speaker 2: you have to show hitters that you can't, that you're

698
00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:13,880
Speaker 2: not predictable, and that they can't. They better stay sharp

699
00:34:13,960 --> 00:34:15,680
Speaker 2: because you're not going to make it easy for them.

700
00:34:16,160 --> 00:34:18,640
Speaker 2: And I think that this is why I like him,

701
00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:21,080
Speaker 2: and I'm not down on him at all. I think

702
00:34:21,120 --> 00:34:25,120
Speaker 2: he's a really smart guy. I think he's extremely competitive.

703
00:34:25,200 --> 00:34:28,520
Speaker 2: I think he wants to learn, and I think he

704
00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:31,439
Speaker 2: has a lot of self awareness. I mean, he knows

705
00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:33,840
Speaker 2: what he's got to do and he's smart enough to

706
00:34:33,880 --> 00:34:36,759
Speaker 2: do it, and it's just a process. And so he

707
00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:40,120
Speaker 2: hit the proverbial speed bump, but I think he's been

708
00:34:40,160 --> 00:34:42,439
Speaker 2: bouncing back for that. Yeah, you'd like to see more

709
00:34:42,440 --> 00:34:46,160
Speaker 2: swing and miss and all that, But again, this is

710
00:34:46,280 --> 00:34:48,839
Speaker 2: kind of a learning season for him. He'd never been

711
00:34:48,840 --> 00:34:52,040
Speaker 2: a starting pitcher in the big leagues before. So I'm

712
00:34:52,080 --> 00:34:55,839
Speaker 2: good with him, and I think that the more he

713
00:34:56,120 --> 00:35:01,200
Speaker 2: the more he sort of an hants is his pitchs.

714
00:35:01,239 --> 00:35:04,000
Speaker 2: I think that's one step that is going to do

715
00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:06,279
Speaker 2: do him good. If he can continue to do that.

716
00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:10,160
Speaker 1: Well, let's see what Libby's got in this thrilling September

717
00:35:10,239 --> 00:35:14,200
Speaker 1: interleague series between two teams below five hundred. Well, we'll see.

718
00:35:14,239 --> 00:35:16,960
Speaker 1: Bushtadium looked a little barren yesterday. I would expect more

719
00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:21,120
Speaker 1: of the same. Seventeen thousand, seventeen thousand and two the

720
00:35:21,320 --> 00:35:25,319
Speaker 1: smallest full capacity crowd in the history of bus Jadium. Two.

721
00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:29,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, boy, I don't. Yeah, are we down to the

722
00:35:29,480 --> 00:35:33,080
Speaker 2: diehards now? Or like, in other words, everyone's jumped off,

723
00:35:33,200 --> 00:35:35,560
Speaker 2: But what are the Cardinals down to? What the hardcore

724
00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:38,759
Speaker 2: twenty thousand now twenty three thousand? It seems seems like

725
00:35:38,840 --> 00:35:40,840
Speaker 2: it seems like it.

726
00:35:40,840 --> 00:35:43,399
Speaker 1: It's interesting. It's definitely interesting. I do like the fact

727
00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:48,080
Speaker 1: that the sections are so like they're so randomized. There

728
00:35:48,080 --> 00:35:50,080
Speaker 1: are like two or three people in each section, which

729
00:35:50,120 --> 00:35:51,920
Speaker 1: means the section might below the press box. I can

730
00:35:51,920 --> 00:35:55,680
Speaker 1: hear every conversation whatever fans are sitting there. They have

731
00:35:55,760 --> 00:36:00,719
Speaker 1: been hilarious the last three days. It just nonstops haven't

732
00:36:00,719 --> 00:36:01,240
Speaker 1: taken notes.

733
00:36:01,560 --> 00:36:02,839
Speaker 2: You know what, you know what, you know what I'd

734
00:36:02,840 --> 00:36:04,239
Speaker 2: like to do. I'm sorry to extend this. I know

735
00:36:04,280 --> 00:36:06,239
Speaker 2: you got to get moving, but I'm actually going to

736
00:36:06,280 --> 00:36:07,600
Speaker 2: talk about your home territory.

737
00:36:07,880 --> 00:36:08,360
Speaker 1: Oh gosh.

738
00:36:08,560 --> 00:36:11,880
Speaker 2: I love the old Candlestick Park for many, many, many,

739
00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:14,680
Speaker 2: many many reasons. If number one had saved my life

740
00:36:14,680 --> 00:36:17,200
Speaker 2: in the nineteen eighty nine World Series with the earthquake,

741
00:36:17,480 --> 00:36:19,160
Speaker 2: I'm them there in the upper deck and I feel

742
00:36:19,160 --> 00:36:21,719
Speaker 2: the whole stadium swaying, and I really thought I was

743
00:36:21,760 --> 00:36:24,640
Speaker 2: gonna die. So talking to some Bay Area writers said,

744
00:36:24,680 --> 00:36:27,360
Speaker 2: you know, they have made this thing earthquake proof, and

745
00:36:27,360 --> 00:36:29,839
Speaker 2: I'm like, thank you, Candlestick. I will always love you.

746
00:36:30,560 --> 00:36:34,560
Speaker 2: And it's true. But I used to love when I've

747
00:36:34,560 --> 00:36:36,440
Speaker 2: traveled all the time. I used to love when i'd

748
00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:40,239
Speaker 2: get my early column done or whatever with ballparks where

749
00:36:40,280 --> 00:36:42,360
Speaker 2: there were a lot of open because they weren't drawing it.

750
00:36:42,440 --> 00:36:44,759
Speaker 2: I used to love to move around the ballpark. I'd

751
00:36:44,800 --> 00:36:47,000
Speaker 2: go for like two or three innings. I'd say to

752
00:36:47,080 --> 00:36:50,400
Speaker 2: Rick Hummel, I'll be back. I'm just gonna walk the ballpark.

753
00:36:50,920 --> 00:36:53,800
Speaker 2: I go here, I go sit there. I'd taken the

754
00:36:53,880 --> 00:36:56,399
Speaker 2: vantage point I'd listened in on fans and what they

755
00:36:56,400 --> 00:36:59,200
Speaker 2: were saying. I'm seeing what everybody's eating. I'm just taking

756
00:36:59,239 --> 00:37:01,719
Speaker 2: mental notes and just sort of getting the ballpark experience.

757
00:37:02,320 --> 00:37:05,040
Speaker 2: So yeah, I would say to fans, this is a

758
00:37:05,040 --> 00:37:07,239
Speaker 2: great time to actually come. And I'm not trying to

759
00:37:07,239 --> 00:37:10,279
Speaker 2: sell tickets here, but it's like Bush Stadium, like you

760
00:37:10,320 --> 00:37:12,600
Speaker 2: haven't seen it before. You can walk around, you got

761
00:37:12,640 --> 00:37:15,560
Speaker 2: freedom to move, you can try things out. It's kind

762
00:37:15,560 --> 00:37:17,680
Speaker 2: of casual, it's not you're not all packed in so

763
00:37:17,880 --> 00:37:22,480
Speaker 2: anyway there there is actually some peace and enjoyment in

764
00:37:22,480 --> 00:37:24,600
Speaker 2: that type of experience. I used to do that all

765
00:37:24,640 --> 00:37:25,919
Speaker 2: the time on the road.

766
00:37:26,400 --> 00:37:29,280
Speaker 1: It is very relaxing. I did exactly that on Sunday

767
00:37:29,320 --> 00:37:31,680
Speaker 1: at Great American Ballpark. It was like the third inning

768
00:37:32,640 --> 00:37:33,799
Speaker 1: and I was like, you know what, I'm gonna take

769
00:37:33,800 --> 00:37:36,520
Speaker 1: a lap around this ballpark because I've never done that before.

770
00:37:36,560 --> 00:37:38,560
Speaker 1: For I've been a Great American Ballpark like thirty times,

771
00:37:38,600 --> 00:37:41,000
Speaker 1: and I've never taken a full lap and it was

772
00:37:41,040 --> 00:37:43,160
Speaker 1: just so cool. I love doing that for different away games,

773
00:37:43,280 --> 00:37:46,520
Speaker 1: especially if the away team is kind of a like

774
00:37:46,560 --> 00:37:49,320
Speaker 1: not a super full stadium. So I get it, Bernie.

775
00:37:49,320 --> 00:37:52,200
Speaker 1: And also my dad was at that game three nineteen

776
00:37:52,200 --> 00:37:54,440
Speaker 1: eighty nine game Giants as my dad grew up in

777
00:37:54,480 --> 00:37:58,240
Speaker 1: the Bay Area and one has actually my grandma called

778
00:37:58,239 --> 00:38:00,719
Speaker 1: in and won tickets on a radio station for him.

779
00:38:01,080 --> 00:38:03,239
Speaker 1: My dad still to this day, is like bewildered because

780
00:38:03,280 --> 00:38:05,200
Speaker 1: she doesn't like sports, but she knew that my dad

781
00:38:05,239 --> 00:38:07,600
Speaker 1: wanted to go, so she figured she'd try and then

782
00:38:07,640 --> 00:38:09,480
Speaker 1: won the tickets. So there he is. I actually have

783
00:38:09,600 --> 00:38:13,160
Speaker 1: the ticket in on my Sports Memoria bookcase from that game.

784
00:38:13,320 --> 00:38:15,000
Speaker 1: You'd be shocked to know. If you know my father

785
00:38:15,080 --> 00:38:16,880
Speaker 1: at all, he had no idea what was going on.

786
00:38:17,160 --> 00:38:19,200
Speaker 1: He thought like fans were like stomping their feet.

787
00:38:18,960 --> 00:38:19,839
Speaker 2: And I did too.

788
00:38:19,960 --> 00:38:22,759
Speaker 1: I did too, and home way later did he find

789
00:38:22,800 --> 00:38:24,840
Speaker 1: out that it was actually a devastating earthquakes.

790
00:38:25,040 --> 00:38:27,239
Speaker 2: There's a Bay Area reporter that I knew very well.

791
00:38:27,320 --> 00:38:30,000
Speaker 2: I'm talking to him a long time, Bob Padecki, and

792
00:38:30,120 --> 00:38:31,719
Speaker 2: he was like two seats down for me in the

793
00:38:31,760 --> 00:38:34,600
Speaker 2: auxiliary box, which is out in the stands and I

794
00:38:34,640 --> 00:38:38,759
Speaker 2: looked at him terrified, he said, and he said, earthquake.

795
00:38:39,640 --> 00:38:40,600
Speaker 1: That's so California.

796
00:38:40,680 --> 00:38:43,040
Speaker 2: That's the most Caliorniy said, He's like, hold tight, earthquake.

797
00:38:43,560 --> 00:38:45,280
Speaker 2: And I was just like, what do you made? Earthquake?

798
00:38:45,360 --> 00:38:47,440
Speaker 2: You know, it seemed like it went on for two

799
00:38:47,520 --> 00:38:50,479
Speaker 2: minutes and it was only like ten seconds. But man,

800
00:38:50,520 --> 00:38:53,680
Speaker 2: what a story. What inexperience? No, that's what did you

801
00:38:53,880 --> 00:38:56,520
Speaker 2: was your dad sitting upper deck or down down low

802
00:38:56,719 --> 00:39:01,000
Speaker 2: or upper deck was the scary place? Yeah, that was

803
00:39:01,080 --> 00:39:04,400
Speaker 2: the scary place. So anyway, and you know, the night before,

804
00:39:04,560 --> 00:39:07,040
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, too many stories. Now, the night before, I'm

805
00:39:07,080 --> 00:39:09,640
Speaker 2: out with a bunch of my Bay Area sports writer

806
00:39:09,760 --> 00:39:12,399
Speaker 2: friends and we're having like a few beers that left

807
00:39:12,440 --> 00:39:15,759
Speaker 2: the old Duels, you right, that classes yet right, so

808
00:39:15,840 --> 00:39:18,879
Speaker 2: old old school hangout and we were sitting there, okay,

809
00:39:18,920 --> 00:39:20,360
Speaker 2: and this will be the last story because I know

810
00:39:20,400 --> 00:39:21,440
Speaker 2: you have to get to the ballpark.

811
00:39:21,480 --> 00:39:22,040
Speaker 1: No, I love this.

812
00:39:22,600 --> 00:39:26,560
Speaker 2: We're sitting there, you know, it's like Bruce Jenkins, Ray

813
00:39:26,640 --> 00:39:29,840
Speaker 2: Ratto's all these different people and we're sitting there and

814
00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:32,319
Speaker 2: we're talking about because the because the As swept the

815
00:39:32,320 --> 00:39:34,239
Speaker 2: first two games of the series, right, and it wasn't

816
00:39:34,239 --> 00:39:37,279
Speaker 2: even close, and we're saying, we're all talking about man,

817
00:39:37,400 --> 00:39:41,480
Speaker 2: there's this this series is really boring. Man, you know,

818
00:39:41,520 --> 00:39:44,200
Speaker 2: there's nothing to write about. It's kind of the same thing.

819
00:39:44,360 --> 00:39:46,000
Speaker 2: You know, we all we know the a's are good,

820
00:39:46,040 --> 00:39:48,840
Speaker 2: we know about larusa blah blah blah blah blah. We

821
00:39:48,920 --> 00:39:50,880
Speaker 2: got we need some action, we get it. There's gotta

822
00:39:50,920 --> 00:39:54,239
Speaker 2: be some excitement. You know, it's just really dull. And

823
00:39:54,280 --> 00:39:56,319
Speaker 2: I went back to my room and wrote a column, Oh,

824
00:39:56,320 --> 00:40:00,160
Speaker 2: the World Series is dull, you know, and that the

825
00:40:00,160 --> 00:40:01,520
Speaker 2: next day earthquake.

826
00:40:02,360 --> 00:40:04,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, careful for Bernie.

827
00:40:04,280 --> 00:40:07,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, the World Series wasn't wasn't so dull after that.

828
00:40:07,960 --> 00:40:11,160
Speaker 2: So anyway, and I got put on earthquake earthquake duty,

829
00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:13,719
Speaker 2: and you didn't believe the stories. I loved the experience.

830
00:40:13,960 --> 00:40:15,480
Speaker 2: I wish I never had it because it was all

831
00:40:15,480 --> 00:40:17,319
Speaker 2: the damage and all the people that were affected. But

832
00:40:17,920 --> 00:40:19,920
Speaker 2: they put me on earthquake duty and I was just

833
00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:22,759
Speaker 2: roaming around northern California looking for stories, you know. So

834
00:40:23,920 --> 00:40:27,080
Speaker 2: that's that was a very unforgettable experience. In many ways,

835
00:40:27,360 --> 00:40:28,120
Speaker 2: very rarely do.

836
00:40:28,120 --> 00:40:30,520
Speaker 1: Us baseball scribes have to be pulled into doing what

837
00:40:30,560 --> 00:40:34,279
Speaker 1: I call real reporter shit, but when we do, uh

838
00:40:34,400 --> 00:40:39,520
Speaker 1: it is, it's an unforgettable experience, right, So no, I

839
00:40:39,560 --> 00:40:41,480
Speaker 1: love I love the story time, especially when it involves

840
00:40:41,560 --> 00:40:44,600
Speaker 1: my beloved Bay Area. Lots of Bay Area writers coming

841
00:40:44,600 --> 00:40:46,840
Speaker 1: to Saint Louis this weekend with the Giants in town

842
00:40:46,960 --> 00:40:49,280
Speaker 1: for Friday, Saturday and Sunday's game. Hall of Fame weekend

843
00:40:49,320 --> 00:40:53,440
Speaker 1: as well. Lots of former Cardinals in town. Plenty of

844
00:40:53,480 --> 00:40:57,640
Speaker 1: tickets still available. Trust me, if you're looking to attend,

845
00:40:58,640 --> 00:41:02,399
Speaker 1: here are those currently scheduled to be in attendance. Edgar

846
00:41:02,440 --> 00:41:05,200
Speaker 1: Rnarea is being inducted the late Walt Jockety very well

847
00:41:05,200 --> 00:41:09,280
Speaker 1: deserved for these guys. Danny Cox will be in attendance,

848
00:41:09,600 --> 00:41:14,200
Speaker 1: Ricky Horton, our favorite, Willie McGee, Terry Pendleton, Ozzie Smith.

849
00:41:14,239 --> 00:41:17,000
Speaker 1: Of course this is all from the nineteen eighty five

850
00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:20,400
Speaker 1: an Al championship team, so they'll be in attendance as well,

851
00:41:20,680 --> 00:41:23,040
Speaker 1: and then the usual Hall of famers will be there.

852
00:41:23,120 --> 00:41:25,400
Speaker 1: So it's always a fun weekend at bus JDM. I

853
00:41:25,440 --> 00:41:27,040
Speaker 1: think it's one of the things the Cardinals continues to

854
00:41:27,040 --> 00:41:28,600
Speaker 1: do exceptionally well, is Hall of Fam Weekend.

855
00:41:28,840 --> 00:41:31,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, they do. And I missed my friend Walt Jockety,

856
00:41:31,600 --> 00:41:34,319
Speaker 2: and it's sad that he can't be there, but I

857
00:41:34,360 --> 00:41:38,560
Speaker 2: know his family is beyond joyful that he got in

858
00:41:38,719 --> 00:41:43,000
Speaker 2: and and I know a lot of those Cardinals players

859
00:41:43,000 --> 00:41:46,399
Speaker 2: that he traded for, he changed their careers. He changed

860
00:41:46,440 --> 00:41:49,400
Speaker 2: their lives by giving them a chance to play in

861
00:41:49,440 --> 00:41:51,920
Speaker 2: World Series and you know, win a World Championship. A

862
00:41:51,920 --> 00:41:54,600
Speaker 2: lot of those guys that he traded for are going

863
00:41:54,680 --> 00:41:59,080
Speaker 2: to be there this weekend. And now, you know, you know,

864
00:41:59,360 --> 00:42:01,440
Speaker 2: I'm not just an old salty dog when I think

865
00:42:01,480 --> 00:42:04,080
Speaker 2: about those days, I have fond memories. I was working,

866
00:42:04,120 --> 00:42:07,600
Speaker 2: but I had fond memories and the idea of these

867
00:42:07,640 --> 00:42:11,520
Speaker 2: players coming back to Saint Louis just to honor Walt.

868
00:42:12,200 --> 00:42:14,480
Speaker 2: It's one of those things that gets to me emotionally.

869
00:42:14,520 --> 00:42:18,920
Speaker 2: There's it's powerful. So I hope everyone goes down there

870
00:42:18,960 --> 00:42:21,560
Speaker 2: and kind of savors what they're watching, because it's really

871
00:42:21,640 --> 00:42:25,719
Speaker 2: special when these everybody comes home to thank Walt Jockety

872
00:42:26,040 --> 00:42:28,480
Speaker 2: for changing their lives and their careers.

873
00:42:28,840 --> 00:42:31,360
Speaker 1: You know, agreed, Agreed. I usually cant out the ceremony

874
00:42:31,360 --> 00:42:33,000
Speaker 1: because it's during pregame, but I think I'm going to

875
00:42:33,000 --> 00:42:35,960
Speaker 1: make an exception this time. So yeah, I hope to

876
00:42:35,960 --> 00:42:37,960
Speaker 1: see you all there, Bernie, I will be back with

877
00:42:38,000 --> 00:42:41,400
Speaker 1: you at the end of the Giant series. Chip Carrie

878
00:42:41,400 --> 00:42:43,480
Speaker 1: and Brad Thompson joined the show on Friday for a

879
00:42:43,520 --> 00:42:46,800
Speaker 1: little behind the scenes on how the Cardinals broadcast works.

880
00:42:47,440 --> 00:42:49,439
Speaker 1: And as someone who has been in that booth many

881
00:42:49,440 --> 00:42:51,240
Speaker 1: a time that season, you do not want to miss

882
00:42:51,640 --> 00:42:54,839
Speaker 1: all their antics. For whatever you think they are on

883
00:42:54,920 --> 00:42:58,120
Speaker 1: the air, they are ten times worse behind the scenes.

884
00:42:58,120 --> 00:42:59,600
Speaker 1: So looking forward to having two of my friends on

885
00:42:59,640 --> 00:43:01,360
Speaker 1: the show, and we'll talk a little bit about their

886
00:43:01,400 --> 00:43:03,920
Speaker 1: charity men coming up in the middle of September, Bernie,

887
00:43:03,960 --> 00:43:05,080
Speaker 1: you got anything cooking up.

888
00:43:05,520 --> 00:43:07,759
Speaker 2: No, no, just gonna be looking forward to some good

889
00:43:07,760 --> 00:43:12,760
Speaker 2: college football this weekend as always, and grinding away, grinding

890
00:43:12,800 --> 00:43:14,440
Speaker 2: away almost the touch.

891
00:43:14,320 --> 00:43:18,520
Speaker 1: Line, don't blink. Just one homestand and a half left

892
00:43:18,520 --> 00:43:19,320
Speaker 1: here in Saint Louis.

893
00:43:19,400 --> 00:43:21,239
Speaker 2: So yeah. And by the way, you know they down

894
00:43:21,239 --> 00:43:24,120
Speaker 2: in Hattisburg, Mississippi, they hate your they hate your football coach.

895
00:43:24,640 --> 00:43:28,560
Speaker 2: Good they do. Because he was complaining about the hotels.

896
00:43:28,600 --> 00:43:31,799
Speaker 2: There's no hotels. I don't want to stay in a casino. Uh,

897
00:43:32,120 --> 00:43:35,000
Speaker 2: we can't find the food. He's making it sound like, Uh,

898
00:43:35,160 --> 00:43:37,839
Speaker 2: you know, Mississippi State is just like somewhere, you know,

899
00:43:37,920 --> 00:43:40,200
Speaker 2: somewhere up in the mountains. You know, there's like no

900
00:43:40,280 --> 00:43:42,960
Speaker 2: people there or whatever. They're all they're they're all going.

901
00:43:43,000 --> 00:43:48,320
Speaker 1: Now, the innovation pipeline that is Arizona State University is

902
00:43:48,320 --> 00:43:48,960
Speaker 1: a little different.

903
00:43:49,840 --> 00:43:51,920
Speaker 2: So anyway, wait, I've kept you long enough. It was

904
00:43:51,960 --> 00:43:53,080
Speaker 2: fun chattering about this stuff.

905
00:43:53,280 --> 00:43:55,040
Speaker 1: This is a good one. You can find all of

906
00:43:55,080 --> 00:43:58,040
Speaker 1: Bernie's work at STL Sports Central. He's on with KMOX.

907
00:43:58,120 --> 00:44:00,200
Speaker 1: You can read my stuff at the Athletic and be

908
00:44:00,200 --> 00:44:02,439
Speaker 1: back with you on Sunday. Have a great week, See

909
00:44:02,440 --> 00:44:21,120
Speaker 1: you guys. H