WEBVTT - How Her Illicit Love Letters Got Edith Thompson Hanged for a Murder

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to Criminalia, a production of Shondaland Audio in partnership

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<v Speaker 1>with iHeartRadio.

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<v Speaker 2>The story begins when a young ship's steward named Frederick

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<v Speaker 2>Freddie Bywaters became involved with a married woman named Edith Thompson.

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<v Speaker 2>They had known each other growing up in the same

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<v Speaker 2>London suburb as her husband, Percy Thompson. The families all

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<v Speaker 2>grew up together and Freddie was in the same class

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<v Speaker 2>at school as one of Edith's brothers. At the age

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<v Speaker 2>of thirteen, he joined the British Merchant Navy. It was

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<v Speaker 2>generally considered that Freddie would marry Edith's sister Avis, but

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<v Speaker 2>life doesn't always work out the way you think it will.

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<v Speaker 2>He ended up being executed for Percy's murder, and so

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<v Speaker 2>did Edith. But did the murderous duo deserve it? Historians

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<v Speaker 2>now suggest maybe she wasn't any more than a witness

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<v Speaker 2>to the event. Let's look whether or not Fredda and

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<v Speaker 2>Edith were partners in crime, or if Edith faced a

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<v Speaker 2>wrongful and unfortunate death for adultery. Welcome to Criminalia. I'm

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<v Speaker 2>Maria Tremarky.

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<v Speaker 1>And I'm Holly Frye. She was born Edith Grayden and

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<v Speaker 1>grew up imagining a life for herself different from the

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<v Speaker 1>one that working class women were expected to live in

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<v Speaker 1>early twentieth century England. She was born in the East

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<v Speaker 1>London suburb of Manor Park on Christmas Day in eighteen

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<v Speaker 1>ninety three, the eldest of five children. She was educated

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<v Speaker 1>and said to have been especially talented in mathematics, and

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<v Speaker 1>as soon as she was able, she headed into London

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<v Speaker 1>for work, where she joined the wholesale milliner's firm of

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<v Speaker 1>Carlton and Pryor. She began as a bookkeeper, but quickly

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<v Speaker 1>rose within the ranks to become the firm's chief buyer.

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<v Speaker 1>Most often, she spent her evenings with friends, visiting West

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<v Speaker 1>End theaters and restaurants. Biographer Laura Thompson, who is no relation,

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<v Speaker 1>said of her ambition quote she was a sort of

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<v Speaker 1>so called ordinary woman who wanted to be extraordinary.

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<v Speaker 2>In nineteen oh nine she met shipping clerk Percy Thompson,

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<v Speaker 2>and after a six year engagement, they married. They bought

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<v Speaker 2>a house at forty one Kensington Gardens in the fashionable

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<v Speaker 2>town of Ilford and Essex, a spot not far from

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<v Speaker 2>where they both had grown up. With her work at

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<v Speaker 2>Carlton Empryor. Edith earned more than her new husband, and

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<v Speaker 2>she also earned more than her father too, since we're

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<v Speaker 2>pointing out finances here. And though she contributed more than

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<v Speaker 2>half the cost of the property, the deed legally had

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<v Speaker 2>to be in Percy's name. Women wouldn't be given the

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<v Speaker 2>right to hold property in the UK until nineteen twenty six.

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<v Speaker 2>She was expected to settle into domestic life, but Edith

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<v Speaker 2>had other ideas, says biographer Laura Thompson of her quote,

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<v Speaker 2>She's a girl about the town. She's ambitious. She wanted

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<v Speaker 2>to own her own home, which she did, even though

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<v Speaker 2>it had to be an her husband's name. But the

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<v Speaker 2>thing Edith wasn't so good at in the conventions of

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<v Speaker 2>her time was maybe she wasn't such a good wife.

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<v Speaker 1>During a visit home in June of nineteen twenty one,

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<v Speaker 1>Freddie hollidayed with Percy, Edith and Avis on the Isle

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<v Speaker 1>of Wight. After they all returned back to London, the

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<v Speaker 1>couple invited Freddie to live with them as a paying lodger,

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<v Speaker 1>giving him a place to call home when he wasn't deployed.

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<v Speaker 1>But unknown to Percy, a romance had sparked between Freddie

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<v Speaker 1>and Edith, and it only flourished when Eddie was invited

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<v Speaker 1>to move in with the Thompsons as a border.

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<v Speaker 2>Freddie was handsome and he told amazing stories of his

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<v Speaker 2>adventures around the world that piqued Edith's interest. Percy, by comparison,

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<v Speaker 2>was reportedly a calm, proper, conventional person, and he was

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<v Speaker 2>kind of a bore. Freddie, not Percy, was the one

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<v Speaker 2>who closely resembled Edith's romantic eye deal because he was

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<v Speaker 2>a way a lot. They wrote frequent letters, and Edith

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<v Speaker 2>insisted their correspondence must be destroyed after reading. With roughly

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<v Speaker 2>seventy letters remaining today, clearly Freddie must not have heard

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<v Speaker 2>her request.

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<v Speaker 1>While Freddie's letters are lost to history, surely Edith destroyed them.

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<v Speaker 1>We do have access to many that Edith wrote. She

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<v Speaker 1>often jumped around in her writing from topic to topic,

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<v Speaker 1>from describing the mundane ins and outs of daily life

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<v Speaker 1>to sharing her thoughts about everything from sex, pregnancy, termination,

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<v Speaker 1>and even suicide. She referred to Freddie as darlingist and

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<v Speaker 1>darlint she wrote in a place between fact and fantasy.

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<v Speaker 1>Historians have noted an avid fiction reader. She would sometimes

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<v Speaker 1>imagine herself as a character from a novel, and sometimes

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<v Speaker 1>in her imagining so she would hint at wanting to

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<v Speaker 1>be rid of Percy. Not often, but it did come up.

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<v Speaker 1>In one letter, she fantasized about perhaps adding small pieces

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<v Speaker 1>of glass to his food. That section read quote, I

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<v Speaker 1>was buoyed up with the hope of the light bulb,

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<v Speaker 1>and I used a lot big pieces too, not powdered,

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<v Speaker 1>and it had no effect. I quite expected to be

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<v Speaker 1>able to send you that cable, but no, nothing has

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<v Speaker 1>happened from it. She pleaded in her letters for Freddy

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<v Speaker 1>to quote do something desperate. What scholars today want to

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<v Speaker 1>know is is this a real request or is it

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<v Speaker 1>just an outpouring of emotion, fact or fantasy. Were these

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<v Speaker 1>two just play acting in imaginary scenario or were they

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<v Speaker 1>discussing real actions. No one knew then, nor do we

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<v Speaker 1>know today. Scholars, including University College London professor Renee Weiss,

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<v Speaker 1>who has studied this case for decades and authored the

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<v Speaker 1>book Criminal Justice, The True Story of Edith Thompson, believes

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<v Speaker 1>that Edith's letters show no more than the quote workings

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<v Speaker 1>of an overwrought romantic imagination.

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<v Speaker 2>Another letter from Edith to Freddie reads quote, Yesterday I

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<v Speaker 2>met a woman who lost three husbands and not through war.

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<v Speaker 2>Two were drowned and one committed suicide. And some people

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<v Speaker 2>I know can't lose one. How unfair everything is. Bess

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<v Speaker 2>and Regg are coming to dinner Sunday.

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<v Speaker 1>Late summer. A fight broke out one night when Freddie,

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<v Speaker 1>home from sea, demanded that Percy divorce Edith. Percy ordered

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<v Speaker 1>his lodger out of the house. Edith later described her

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<v Speaker 1>own confrontation with Percy, stating that her husband struck her

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<v Speaker 1>several times and threw her across the room, leaving her

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<v Speaker 1>badly bruised.

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<v Speaker 2>On October third, nineteen twenty two, Percy and Edith spent

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<v Speaker 2>their evening watching the comedy The Dippers at the Criterion

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<v Speaker 2>Theater near Piccadilly Circus. Freddie was home, having recently returned

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<v Speaker 2>from several weeks at sea. As the couple walked toward

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<v Speaker 2>their house, Freddy confronted them and, according to reports, set

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<v Speaker 2>upon Percy, stabbing him repeatedly. Within seconds, Percy lay motionless

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<v Speaker 2>on the ground, having sustained several knife wounds to his neck.

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<v Speaker 2>Edith had been knocked to the ground, and Freddie fled

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<v Speaker 2>before she could summon for help. Neighbors later stated hearing

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<v Speaker 2>a woman screaming hysterically and shouting quote, no, don't several times.

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<v Speaker 2>By the time police arrived, she had not yet been

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<v Speaker 2>able to pull herself together. The morning light would reveal

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<v Speaker 2>Percy's blood had splattered across a forty four foot stretch.

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<v Speaker 1>Of the road. Later in court, Freddie testified to the

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<v Speaker 1>evening's events, saying just about the same thing quote I

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<v Speaker 1>waited for missus Thompson and her husband. I pushed her

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<v Speaker 1>to one side, also pushing him into the street. We struggled.

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<v Speaker 1>I took my knife from my pocket and we fought,

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<v Speaker 1>and he got the worst of it. The reason I

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<v Speaker 1>fought with Thompson was because he never acted like a

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<v Speaker 1>man to his wife. He seemed several degrees lower than

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<v Speaker 1>a snake. I loved her and I could not go

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<v Speaker 1>on seeing her leading that life. I did not intend

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<v Speaker 1>to kill him. I only meant to injure him. I

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<v Speaker 1>gave him the opportunity of standing up to me like

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<v Speaker 1>a man, but he wouldn't.

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<v Speaker 2>At the police station, Edith implicated Freddie as the killer.

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<v Speaker 2>The police never did consider her as a witness. They

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<v Speaker 2>always considered her an accomplice. By all accounts. Edith appeared

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<v Speaker 2>to be distressed at Ilford police station after the murder,

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<v Speaker 2>and understandably so, as her husband was just murdered by

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<v Speaker 2>her lover and all of it happened right in front

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<v Speaker 2>of her. Believing herself to be a witness, not an accomplice,

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<v Speaker 2>she confessed to the details of the nature of her

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<v Speaker 2>relationship with Freddie.

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<v Speaker 1>Detectives at the police station had also staged it so

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<v Speaker 1>that Edith and Freddie would pass each other in a hallway,

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<v Speaker 1>a plan in which they hoped that she would incriminate

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<v Speaker 1>herself when she saw him. Instead, though after the encounter,

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<v Speaker 1>Edith cried out, quote why did he do it? I

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<v Speaker 1>didn't want him to do it? Oh God, what can

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<v Speaker 1>I do? I must tell the truth. That was not

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<v Speaker 1>exactly what they were hoping for, but they carried on,

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<v Speaker 1>unswayed from their belief that Edith was guilty. As she

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<v Speaker 1>was being led back to her house by a police sergeant.

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<v Speaker 1>After questioning, Edith remarked to him that she knew she

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<v Speaker 1>would be implicated that quote, they will blame me for this,

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<v Speaker 1>and as we'll see, they absolutely did. We're going to

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<v Speaker 1>take a break for a word from our sponsors, and

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<v Speaker 1>when we return, we will walk through the investigation and

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<v Speaker 1>the travesty that was Edith's trial.

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<v Speaker 2>Welcome back to Criminalia. Edith was called vain and arrogant

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<v Speaker 2>at her trial, but that's no reason to convict a

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<v Speaker 2>person of murder. It was the content of her love

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<v Speaker 2>letters that convinced the court of her guilt. But let's

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<v Speaker 2>talk about why that's super suspect.

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<v Speaker 1>As the investigation moved along, Percy's brother also suggested the

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<v Speaker 1>police speak to Freddie. All signs pointed to Freddie, and

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<v Speaker 1>we know he also confessed. He was arrested and during

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<v Speaker 1>a search of his property, investigators discovered the first of

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<v Speaker 1>a series of love letters from Edith. His cabin on

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<v Speaker 1>his ship, the SS Maria was also searched and more letters,

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<v Speaker 1>reportedly up to sixty, were discovered locked in a box.

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<v Speaker 1>Included in this pile of letters were some that mentioned

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<v Speaker 1>Edith's apparent desire to be free of Percy. Those love

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<v Speaker 1>letters were taken and later the prosecution produced them as

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<v Speaker 1>evidence at the trial. They arrested Edith on the spot, but.

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<v Speaker 2>There really was no clear evidence she was involved in

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<v Speaker 2>Percy's killing. In fact, the only tangible evidence against her

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<v Speaker 2>were those love letters, and were they really evidence she

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<v Speaker 2>was a killer. In them, she fantasized about escaping her

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<v Speaker 2>marriage to Percy. One note mentioned she'd fit him broken glass,

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<v Speaker 2>as we said earlier, and in another claimed to have

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<v Speaker 2>attempted to poison him, but authorities could not establish that

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<v Speaker 2>she had in fact done either of those things. Percy's

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<v Speaker 2>body was tested post mortem for poison and traces of glass,

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<v Speaker 2>but nothing incriminating was found.

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<v Speaker 1>One questioned about the letters, Freddie stated that he had

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<v Speaker 1>never believed that Edith had attempted to or would attempt

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<v Speaker 1>to harm her husband. Instead, he explained he believed, as

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<v Speaker 1>did others in support of her, that she had a

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<v Speaker 1>vivid imagination and fueled by the novels she read. She

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<v Speaker 1>often wrote of herself in her letter as a fictional character.

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<v Speaker 1>When he was told that Edith was also to be

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<v Speaker 1>charged with Percy's murder, Freddie replied, quote, why her missus

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<v Speaker 1>Thompson was not aware of my movements?

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<v Speaker 2>The important thing about the letters is this. The correspondence

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<v Speaker 2>allowed for the consideration of what's known as common purpose,

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<v Speaker 2>which legally means if two people consider the murder of

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<v Speaker 2>a third person, and one of those two people acts

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<v Speaker 2>on the expressed intentions of both, Both are equally guilty

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<v Speaker 2>by law. Because of that, Edith's letters became the star.

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<v Speaker 1>Of the show. Intimate details from those letters were splashed

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<v Speaker 1>across newspapers in their reports of the pre trial hearings.

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<v Speaker 1>The entire folio of letters was later published by Philson

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<v Speaker 1>Young in notable British Trial series in nineteen twenty three,

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<v Speaker 1>although the letters do not appear in any kind of

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<v Speaker 1>chronological order.

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<v Speaker 2>Edith and Freddy's murder trial began on December sixth, nineteen

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<v Speaker 2>twenty two, at the Old Bailey. Freddie, as he had

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<v Speaker 2>been pleaded guilty and cooperated completely with investigators. He led

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<v Speaker 2>police to the murder weapon and consistently maintained that he

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<v Speaker 2>had acted without Edith's knowledge.

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<v Speaker 1>Crowds of people arrived early to queue outside the London

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<v Speaker 1>Court to get a seat, and it was standing room only.

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<v Speaker 1>People hoping to make a buck or two queued outside

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<v Speaker 1>the building each night, and then they sold their places

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<v Speaker 1>in line the next morning, sometimes for more than the

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<v Speaker 1>average weekly wage in Britain at the time. Edith and

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<v Speaker 1>Freddy's trial was a hot, dramatic event. It's often said

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<v Speaker 1>that from affair to execution, that the fascination with the

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<v Speaker 1>case was quote inexhaustible. Beverly Nichols, a writer present at

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<v Speaker 1>the trial, had noted that the case had an air

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<v Speaker 1>of quote the days of the Roman Empire, when the

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<v Speaker 1>Christians were thrown to the lions. Years later in nineteen

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<v Speaker 1>seventy three, he also described how the old Bailey quote

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<v Speaker 1>had the atmosphere of a first night. He continued, quote

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<v Speaker 1>you had all these people who might be in the

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<v Speaker 1>dress circle or the stalls, a great many society women,

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<v Speaker 1>sensation seekers, and they were all treating it as if

0:14:12.280 --> 0:14:14.720
<v Speaker 1>it were a thing for which they paid for their seats.

0:14:15.480 --> 0:14:18.240
<v Speaker 1>Professor Renee Weiss, who we mentioned earlier, said of the

0:14:18.280 --> 0:14:22.760
<v Speaker 1>situation quote the public came to admire Freddy and intensely

0:14:22.840 --> 0:14:26.640
<v Speaker 1>dislike Edith, a siren who had seduced a young man

0:14:27.000 --> 0:14:30.160
<v Speaker 1>and thus set in motion a chain reaction that resulted

0:14:30.160 --> 0:14:33.280
<v Speaker 1>in one man's death and the certain execution of.

0:14:33.480 --> 0:14:38.520
<v Speaker 2>A lad During the trial, Freddy stated multiple times, and

0:14:38.720 --> 0:14:42.080
<v Speaker 2>we can emphasize that that Edith had known nothing of

0:14:42.120 --> 0:14:45.280
<v Speaker 2>his plans and couldn't have because of the very simple

0:14:45.320 --> 0:14:48.920
<v Speaker 2>reason that he had not intended to murder Percy. His

0:14:49.000 --> 0:14:51.160
<v Speaker 2>plan was to confront him and force him to deal

0:14:51.240 --> 0:14:54.120
<v Speaker 2>with the love triangle situation, but Percy had reacted in

0:14:54.160 --> 0:14:57.520
<v Speaker 2>a superior manner, which caused Freddy to lose his temper.

0:14:58.200 --> 0:15:01.680
<v Speaker 2>Witness accounts to the court support this story that Edith

0:15:01.680 --> 0:15:03.960
<v Speaker 2>had been taken by surprise on the night her husband

0:15:04.000 --> 0:15:08.840
<v Speaker 2>was stabbed. The prosecution, though claimed Edith had insisted Freddy

0:15:08.920 --> 0:15:09.160
<v Speaker 2>do it.

0:15:10.240 --> 0:15:14.680
<v Speaker 1>Edith's counsel, Sir Henry Curtis Bennett, urged her not to testify.

0:15:15.440 --> 0:15:17.840
<v Speaker 1>He felt the burden of proof lay with the prosecution

0:15:18.120 --> 0:15:20.680
<v Speaker 1>and that there was nothing they could prove other than

0:15:20.720 --> 0:15:24.040
<v Speaker 1>that she had been present at the murder. It was

0:15:24.200 --> 0:15:28.000
<v Speaker 1>best if Edith just stayed silent. But Edith took the

0:15:28.080 --> 0:15:32.600
<v Speaker 1>stand anyway. Of that. Author Laura Thompson has stated, quote

0:15:32.920 --> 0:15:35.480
<v Speaker 1>that to me was a sign of innocence that you

0:15:35.520 --> 0:15:38.160
<v Speaker 1>would be so adamant that you would want to do that.

0:15:39.080 --> 0:15:43.080
<v Speaker 1>But Edith walked into a pit of vipers. The prosecution

0:15:43.320 --> 0:15:46.520
<v Speaker 1>manipulated what she had written in her letters, finding and

0:15:46.680 --> 0:15:50.720
<v Speaker 1>highlighting false narratives and giving misleading time periods to quote

0:15:51.040 --> 0:15:55.400
<v Speaker 1>tie her up in knots. Edith's testimony did her no favors,

0:15:55.600 --> 0:15:59.440
<v Speaker 1>as she contradicted herself regarding the contents of her letters.

0:16:00.200 --> 0:16:04.520
<v Speaker 1>Her demeanor, it was reported, varied from flirtatious to melodramatic,

0:16:04.960 --> 0:16:06.920
<v Speaker 1>and it was also reported that she made a poor

0:16:06.960 --> 0:16:10.800
<v Speaker 1>impression on the judge and the jury. In reply to

0:16:10.920 --> 0:16:13.400
<v Speaker 1>several questions relating to the meaning of some of the

0:16:13.440 --> 0:16:17.040
<v Speaker 1>passages in her letters, including when asked what she had

0:16:17.080 --> 0:16:19.200
<v Speaker 1>meant when she had written to Freddie asking him to

0:16:19.240 --> 0:16:23.720
<v Speaker 1>send her quote something to give her husband, she stated simply,

0:16:24.640 --> 0:16:26.440
<v Speaker 1>I have no idea.

0:16:26.680 --> 0:16:30.240
<v Speaker 2>Her own counsel later stated that the vanity and arrogance

0:16:30.320 --> 0:16:33.640
<v Speaker 2>she brought to the stand destroyed her chances for acquittal.

0:16:34.280 --> 0:16:38.080
<v Speaker 2>Her testimony, too, had been unfortunate. Her demeanor negated the

0:16:38.120 --> 0:16:41.120
<v Speaker 2>positive testimonies of neighbors who had heard her cry out

0:16:41.160 --> 0:16:44.200
<v Speaker 2>in horror as her husband was attacked, as well as

0:16:44.200 --> 0:16:47.520
<v Speaker 2>the statements from police who dealt with the immediate investigation,

0:16:47.600 --> 0:16:50.240
<v Speaker 2>who'd reported that she'd appeared to be in a genuine

0:16:50.280 --> 0:16:54.120
<v Speaker 2>state of shock and disbelief, saying things like quote, oh God,

0:16:54.200 --> 0:16:57.000
<v Speaker 2>why did he do this? End quote I never wanted

0:16:57.080 --> 0:16:57.680
<v Speaker 2>him to do it.

0:16:58.640 --> 0:17:03.120
<v Speaker 1>Renee Weiss, convinced of Edith's innocence, has written quote, Edith

0:17:03.120 --> 0:17:06.280
<v Speaker 1>Thompson paid a terrible price for daring to be ruled

0:17:06.320 --> 0:17:10.360
<v Speaker 1>by her passions and for behaving out of her social class.

0:17:11.040 --> 0:17:14.320
<v Speaker 1>If confirmation were needed that it was her perceived immorality

0:17:14.359 --> 0:17:17.280
<v Speaker 1>that brought her to perdition, it is proved by the

0:17:17.320 --> 0:17:20.119
<v Speaker 1>foreman of her jury, who said, quote, it was my

0:17:20.320 --> 0:17:23.480
<v Speaker 1>duty to read them the letters to the members of

0:17:23.520 --> 0:17:28.280
<v Speaker 1>the jury. Nauseus is hardly strong enough to describe their contents.

0:17:28.880 --> 0:17:31.880
<v Speaker 1>Missus Thompson's letters were her own condemnation.

0:17:33.119 --> 0:17:37.639
<v Speaker 2>The letters were crucial evidence, but should have been flimsy

0:17:37.920 --> 0:17:41.879
<v Speaker 2>evidence for the prosecution. Author Laura Thompson has stated of

0:17:41.920 --> 0:17:44.520
<v Speaker 2>their use, quote, the horror of having them read out

0:17:44.520 --> 0:17:48.680
<v Speaker 2>in court. That's what kills me, those private, intimate words

0:17:48.680 --> 0:17:52.560
<v Speaker 2>and the public gallery behaving like crazed lunatics listening to

0:17:52.600 --> 0:17:56.400
<v Speaker 2>this private, private stuff. It's like trying to torture someone.

0:17:56.440 --> 0:17:59.320
<v Speaker 1>I think from court reports, it's also clear that the

0:17:59.359 --> 0:18:03.720
<v Speaker 1>trial judge, mister Justice Sherman, was not impartial when it

0:18:03.760 --> 0:18:07.760
<v Speaker 1>came to Edith's case. He repeatedly interjected on the side

0:18:07.800 --> 0:18:11.040
<v Speaker 1>of the prosecution. He told the jurors, whom he would

0:18:11.080 --> 0:18:13.960
<v Speaker 1>only address as gentlemen, despite there being two women on

0:18:14.000 --> 0:18:18.520
<v Speaker 1>the jury exactly how he felt about Edith's adultery. All

0:18:18.720 --> 0:18:22.520
<v Speaker 1>was adultery, not a thing about the murder charge. Quote.

0:18:22.880 --> 0:18:26.000
<v Speaker 1>I am certain that you, like any other right minded person,

0:18:26.119 --> 0:18:29.600
<v Speaker 1>will be filled with disgust at such a notion. Not

0:18:29.760 --> 0:18:30.720
<v Speaker 1>biased at all.

0:18:31.800 --> 0:18:36.560
<v Speaker 2>The judge labeled her an adulterer, deceitful, and by implication,

0:18:37.280 --> 0:18:41.600
<v Speaker 2>surely capable of murder. Sir Bennett attempted to cast her

0:18:41.600 --> 0:18:45.400
<v Speaker 2>immorality as defensible in the context of the quote glamorous

0:18:45.480 --> 0:18:49.240
<v Speaker 2>aura of a quote great love, and tried to overlook

0:18:49.280 --> 0:18:51.960
<v Speaker 2>the point continually being made by the judge that the

0:18:52.040 --> 0:18:56.879
<v Speaker 2>case concerned only an adulterer and an adulterous wife. In

0:18:56.960 --> 0:19:00.359
<v Speaker 2>his final address, Sir Bennett said of Edith, quote, this

0:19:00.520 --> 0:19:04.320
<v Speaker 2>is not an ordinary charge of murder? Am I right

0:19:04.480 --> 0:19:06.760
<v Speaker 2>or wrong in saying that? This woman is one of

0:19:06.840 --> 0:19:10.359
<v Speaker 2>the most extraordinary personalities that you or I have ever met?

0:19:11.000 --> 0:19:14.320
<v Speaker 2>Have you ever read more beautiful language of love? Such

0:19:14.359 --> 0:19:17.400
<v Speaker 2>things have been very seldom put by pen upon paper.

0:19:18.000 --> 0:19:20.159
<v Speaker 2>This is the woman you have to deal with, not

0:19:20.280 --> 0:19:24.399
<v Speaker 2>some ordinary woman. She is one of those striking personalities

0:19:24.440 --> 0:19:26.720
<v Speaker 2>met from time to time who stand out for some

0:19:27.040 --> 0:19:29.920
<v Speaker 2>reason or another. You are men of the world, and

0:19:30.000 --> 0:19:33.000
<v Speaker 2>you must know that where there is a liaison which

0:19:33.000 --> 0:19:35.920
<v Speaker 2>includes someone who is married, it will be part of

0:19:36.040 --> 0:19:38.800
<v Speaker 2>the desire of that person to keep secret the relations

0:19:38.800 --> 0:19:41.000
<v Speaker 2>from the other partner. It is not the sort of

0:19:41.040 --> 0:19:42.760
<v Speaker 2>thing that they would bring to the knowledge of their

0:19:42.760 --> 0:19:43.919
<v Speaker 2>partner for life.

0:19:45.359 --> 0:19:49.040
<v Speaker 1>Opinion pieces began to appear in newspapers, and most of

0:19:49.080 --> 0:19:52.719
<v Speaker 1>them were not written in Edith's favor. In fact, they

0:19:52.720 --> 0:19:56.320
<v Speaker 1>were scathing. The Times in London, for example, published a

0:19:56.359 --> 0:19:59.359
<v Speaker 1>piece that read, quote, there were no circumstances in the

0:19:59.400 --> 0:20:03.040
<v Speaker 1>case too of the slightest sympathy. The whole case was

0:20:03.119 --> 0:20:07.600
<v Speaker 1>simple and sordid. Still people couldn't agree whether Edith and

0:20:07.640 --> 0:20:10.800
<v Speaker 1>Freddy were partners in murder or not. And on that

0:20:11.080 --> 0:20:12.639
<v Speaker 1>we're going to take a break for a word from

0:20:12.680 --> 0:20:15.520
<v Speaker 1>our sponsors, and when we're back, we'll talk about the

0:20:15.600 --> 0:20:18.119
<v Speaker 1>events on the day of the execution, and you might

0:20:18.160 --> 0:20:19.200
<v Speaker 1>want to brace yourself.

0:20:38.880 --> 0:20:44.320
<v Speaker 2>Welcome back to Criminalia. The day of Edith's execution. Honestly,

0:20:44.600 --> 0:20:49.960
<v Speaker 2>hattison tears. Prepare yourselves for an especially terrible day before

0:20:50.119 --> 0:20:51.480
<v Speaker 2>and at the gallows.

0:20:51.880 --> 0:20:54.960
<v Speaker 1>On December eleventh, the jury reached a verdict after two

0:20:55.040 --> 0:21:00.520
<v Speaker 1>hours of deliberation, Edith, terrified, was carried into the courtroom.

0:21:01.200 --> 0:21:04.840
<v Speaker 1>Both she and Freddie were found guilty of murder. Amid

0:21:04.920 --> 0:21:08.119
<v Speaker 1>the commotion that followed, Freddy yelled out quote, the jury

0:21:08.240 --> 0:21:12.320
<v Speaker 1>is wrong, that woman is not guilty. They were both

0:21:12.359 --> 0:21:13.880
<v Speaker 1>sentenced to death by hanging.

0:21:15.160 --> 0:21:19.560
<v Speaker 2>There were appeals in late December, actually not long after

0:21:19.560 --> 0:21:22.520
<v Speaker 2>the trial ended. The Court of Appeal held that Edith

0:21:22.640 --> 0:21:26.680
<v Speaker 2>was indeed guilty, stating that quote incitement to murder revealed

0:21:26.680 --> 0:21:30.280
<v Speaker 2>in her letters, combined with her extraordinary catalog of lies

0:21:30.400 --> 0:21:32.680
<v Speaker 2>about what happened on the night of the murder told

0:21:32.720 --> 0:21:37.240
<v Speaker 2>to several witnesses up until her second witness statement, which

0:21:37.320 --> 0:21:41.640
<v Speaker 2>was open to being found untrustworthy, her meetings with Bywaters

0:21:41.640 --> 0:21:44.480
<v Speaker 2>on the day of the murder, and the content of

0:21:44.520 --> 0:21:47.920
<v Speaker 2>her last letter was sufficient to convict her of arranging

0:21:48.119 --> 0:21:51.399
<v Speaker 2>the murder. The Court of Appeal also took a narrower

0:21:51.480 --> 0:21:54.639
<v Speaker 2>approach to the concept of quote principle in the second

0:21:54.680 --> 0:21:58.840
<v Speaker 2>degree than the court had, but not in Edith's favor.

0:21:59.119 --> 0:22:01.919
<v Speaker 2>A principle in the second degree is legally defined as

0:22:01.920 --> 0:22:03.560
<v Speaker 2>a person who is present at the scene of the

0:22:03.560 --> 0:22:07.080
<v Speaker 2>crime and aids, abets, or encourages that crime. A principle

0:22:07.080 --> 0:22:10.360
<v Speaker 2>in the second degree might also be an accomplice, an accessory,

0:22:10.760 --> 0:22:14.760
<v Speaker 2>or an accessory after the fact. It differs from principle

0:22:14.800 --> 0:22:17.200
<v Speaker 2>in the first degree in that they didn't carry out

0:22:17.240 --> 0:22:21.560
<v Speaker 2>the crime. It was concluded Edith and Freddie were untrustworthy

0:22:21.680 --> 0:22:24.880
<v Speaker 2>end quote. So besmirched were their reputations before they had

0:22:24.920 --> 0:22:28.680
<v Speaker 2>even entered the witness box. The relationship was considered one

0:22:28.680 --> 0:22:30.480
<v Speaker 2>of quote culpable intimacy.

0:22:31.119 --> 0:22:34.760
<v Speaker 1>It had been widely expected, even by the hangman himself,

0:22:34.880 --> 0:22:39.080
<v Speaker 1>that Edith would escape execution, but according to her biographer

0:22:39.160 --> 0:22:43.000
<v Speaker 1>Laura Thompson, Edith quote never stood a chance in front

0:22:43.040 --> 0:22:47.800
<v Speaker 1>of that jury. Additionally, continued Thompson, quote, women disliked her

0:22:47.880 --> 0:22:50.800
<v Speaker 1>because they feared her. She was one of those women

0:22:50.880 --> 0:22:54.520
<v Speaker 1>that other women think men fancy, and she was troubling,

0:22:54.840 --> 0:22:56.320
<v Speaker 1>and she couldn't be pitied.

0:22:57.040 --> 0:23:01.720
<v Speaker 2>Neither would escape execution. The lovers were executed on January ninth,

0:23:01.840 --> 0:23:05.520
<v Speaker 2>nineteen twenty three, for the murder of Percy Thompson. Freddy

0:23:05.640 --> 0:23:07.639
<v Speaker 2>was hanged at nine o'clock in the morning at the

0:23:07.680 --> 0:23:12.720
<v Speaker 2>hands of hangman William Willis. Edith's execution followed just a

0:23:12.720 --> 0:23:16.280
<v Speaker 2>few minutes later, about half a mile away. She was

0:23:16.320 --> 0:23:18.560
<v Speaker 2>executed by hangman John Ellis.

0:23:19.600 --> 0:23:22.879
<v Speaker 1>It's reported to have been an icy cold Tuesday morning

0:23:22.920 --> 0:23:25.960
<v Speaker 1>when the hangman and his team arrived at Edith's cell

0:23:26.040 --> 0:23:29.800
<v Speaker 1>of London's Holloway Prison. She had spent the last few

0:23:29.840 --> 0:23:32.960
<v Speaker 1>days of her life in a state of near constant hysteria,

0:23:33.600 --> 0:23:38.399
<v Speaker 1>falling between crying and screaming, and unable to eat. She

0:23:38.640 --> 0:23:42.440
<v Speaker 1>was heavily sedated the morning of her death, barely conscious

0:23:42.520 --> 0:23:47.160
<v Speaker 1>before her execution. According to author Renee Weiss, doctor John

0:23:47.240 --> 0:23:50.400
<v Speaker 1>Hall Morton, who was both the governor and medical officer

0:23:50.440 --> 0:23:54.040
<v Speaker 1>of Holloway Prison, was the one who administered the following

0:23:54.119 --> 0:23:57.800
<v Speaker 1>medications to Edith. Forty five minutes before her death, she

0:23:57.880 --> 0:24:01.720
<v Speaker 1>was injected with two milligrams of strict Five minutes later,

0:24:01.800 --> 0:24:04.320
<v Speaker 1>she was given a zero point five milligram dose of

0:24:04.359 --> 0:24:09.520
<v Speaker 1>scopolymene morphine and ten milligrams of morphia. Yes, in case

0:24:09.520 --> 0:24:12.199
<v Speaker 1>you're wondering, Strick nine is a poison, but at that

0:24:12.280 --> 0:24:15.160
<v Speaker 1>low dose it can also be used as a tonic

0:24:15.280 --> 0:24:19.320
<v Speaker 1>or analeptic, and the other drugs would have sedated her quickly.

0:24:19.840 --> 0:24:22.919
<v Speaker 2>One of the executioners team lifted her by the waist,

0:24:23.160 --> 0:24:26.040
<v Speaker 2>telling her quote, come on, it'll soon be over. She

0:24:26.200 --> 0:24:29.200
<v Speaker 2>was carried to the gallows by assistance of the executioner.

0:24:29.480 --> 0:24:31.919
<v Speaker 2>They had bound her arms and ankles, though she was

0:24:31.960 --> 0:24:35.320
<v Speaker 2>so sedated that hardly mattered. She had to be held

0:24:35.440 --> 0:24:38.240
<v Speaker 2>upright while the noose was fitted to her. Edith was

0:24:38.359 --> 0:24:42.680
<v Speaker 2>unconscious when the trap door opened. This next detail is graphic,

0:24:42.840 --> 0:24:45.800
<v Speaker 2>so prepare yourself for skip ahead about thirty seconds or so,

0:24:46.320 --> 0:24:49.159
<v Speaker 2>depending on whose version of events you believe. As we

0:24:49.240 --> 0:24:52.480
<v Speaker 2>reach this part of Edith's story, she may or may

0:24:52.520 --> 0:24:56.480
<v Speaker 2>not have bled from her vagina after her hanging, after

0:24:56.520 --> 0:24:59.879
<v Speaker 2>she'd fallen through the trap door, and the question remains today.

0:25:00.080 --> 0:25:04.360
<v Speaker 2>Did she hemorrhage during her execution, and if so, why

0:25:04.440 --> 0:25:08.040
<v Speaker 2>it goes without saying. There is a lot of speculation here.

0:25:08.840 --> 0:25:12.960
<v Speaker 1>Famed pathologist Sir Bernard Spillsbury claimed the bleeding was likely

0:25:13.000 --> 0:25:16.960
<v Speaker 1>caused by her being pregnant and miscarrying. After her execution,

0:25:17.840 --> 0:25:23.119
<v Speaker 1>Spillsbury carried out Percy Thompson's autopsy. He may have carried

0:25:23.119 --> 0:25:27.439
<v Speaker 1>out Edith's post mortem exam too, but that's unclear. We

0:25:27.640 --> 0:25:30.080
<v Speaker 1>know that he wrote about her case. He thought her

0:25:30.119 --> 0:25:33.040
<v Speaker 1>trial was an injustice, but there's no evidence of a

0:25:33.080 --> 0:25:36.760
<v Speaker 1>post mortem from him. If he didn't examine her, his

0:25:36.920 --> 0:25:40.240
<v Speaker 1>comment on a pregnancy would be no more than mere speculation.

0:25:41.080 --> 0:25:45.560
<v Speaker 1>And as we've seen, many people speculated many things about

0:25:45.720 --> 0:25:49.720
<v Speaker 1>Edith for many following the case, wouldn't the whole event

0:25:49.840 --> 0:25:53.359
<v Speaker 1>have been that much more tragic or immoral depending on

0:25:53.400 --> 0:25:55.960
<v Speaker 1>how you felt about Edith if she was pregnant with

0:25:56.040 --> 0:25:58.159
<v Speaker 1>Freddy's not Percy's baby.

0:25:58.800 --> 0:26:01.639
<v Speaker 2>But then if she did bleed, it could have just

0:26:01.720 --> 0:26:05.400
<v Speaker 2>been how bodies work and nothing more than a side

0:26:05.440 --> 0:26:08.960
<v Speaker 2>effect of her cause of death. Hangings can be bloody

0:26:09.680 --> 0:26:14.080
<v Speaker 2>in addition to common things like cerebral hypoxia, cervical fracture,

0:26:14.359 --> 0:26:18.320
<v Speaker 2>and the spontaneous evacuation of urine and feces from the body.

0:26:18.359 --> 0:26:22.800
<v Speaker 2>For instance, bleeding is not unusual. A person may bleed

0:26:22.840 --> 0:26:26.040
<v Speaker 2>from the nose, mouth, or ears bleeding in the lumbar

0:26:26.160 --> 0:26:30.880
<v Speaker 2>region called Simon's Bleedings, hemorrhages under the plura of the lungs,

0:26:31.040 --> 0:26:34.680
<v Speaker 2>and bowel wall hemorrhage are all characteristic signs of death

0:26:34.720 --> 0:26:38.440
<v Speaker 2>by hanging in some countries today but not during Edith's time.

0:26:38.840 --> 0:26:41.600
<v Speaker 2>By law, women are dressed in adult diapers before they're

0:26:41.640 --> 0:26:45.800
<v Speaker 2>hanging to contain fluids, including uterine blood that escapes during

0:26:45.800 --> 0:26:49.080
<v Speaker 2>the trauma of the event, and as the uterine muscles

0:26:49.119 --> 0:26:53.200
<v Speaker 2>relax as the body dies. Uterine bleeding doesn't necessarily mean

0:26:53.240 --> 0:26:57.040
<v Speaker 2>a woman was or wasn't pregnant during her execution.

0:26:57.680 --> 0:27:01.159
<v Speaker 1>Elizabeth Cronin, who was the Deputy governor Holloway Prison and

0:27:01.320 --> 0:27:04.640
<v Speaker 1>was present at the time of the execution, refuted those

0:27:04.640 --> 0:27:09.280
<v Speaker 1>pregnancy claims, stating nothing quote untoward happened during the execution.

0:27:09.840 --> 0:27:13.200
<v Speaker 1>We know that Edith was not visibly pregnant while in prison.

0:27:13.680 --> 0:27:16.280
<v Speaker 1>We know she did not give birth in prison either,

0:27:16.560 --> 0:27:19.159
<v Speaker 1>and there are no hard facts to suggest she was

0:27:19.200 --> 0:27:23.000
<v Speaker 1>pregnant when she was hanged. To that point reported in

0:27:23.080 --> 0:27:27.040
<v Speaker 1>House of Commons answered of March twenty seventh, nineteen fifty six,

0:27:27.480 --> 0:27:31.760
<v Speaker 1>the then Home Secretary, Major Lloyd George stated that Edith

0:27:31.920 --> 0:27:34.600
<v Speaker 1>was indeed sedated and had to be carried to the

0:27:34.640 --> 0:27:38.560
<v Speaker 1>gallows and supported on it. But he had also concluded

0:27:38.640 --> 0:27:41.600
<v Speaker 1>and reported to Parliament that he had examined all the

0:27:41.640 --> 0:27:46.400
<v Speaker 1>available evidence, including post mortem reports, and concluded that again,

0:27:46.680 --> 0:27:51.800
<v Speaker 1>nothing quote untoward had happened. There were no references to pregnancy.

0:27:52.480 --> 0:27:56.480
<v Speaker 2>There's a lot of documentation involved in an execution, and

0:27:56.760 --> 0:28:00.440
<v Speaker 2>one known as the LPC four form is required to

0:28:00.480 --> 0:28:03.760
<v Speaker 2>be completed by the warden after a hanging, it records

0:28:03.960 --> 0:28:09.080
<v Speaker 2>basic facts of the death. Edith's LPC four form, for instance,

0:28:09.200 --> 0:28:12.280
<v Speaker 2>notes dislocation as the cause of her death and mentions

0:28:12.320 --> 0:28:15.320
<v Speaker 2>bruising of the neck from the rope. It does not

0:28:15.480 --> 0:28:18.000
<v Speaker 2>mention that she was pregnant. In fact, it doesn't mention

0:28:18.119 --> 0:28:22.600
<v Speaker 2>anything about uterine bleeding. It's not mentioned on any report

0:28:22.800 --> 0:28:26.719
<v Speaker 2>even once, though it appears in unsubstantiated accounts of her

0:28:26.800 --> 0:28:28.400
<v Speaker 2>death told later on.

0:28:29.240 --> 0:28:33.080
<v Speaker 1>After Edith's trial and hanging, several of the prison officers

0:28:33.119 --> 0:28:36.879
<v Speaker 1>took early retirement. In fact, John Ellis, who you'll recall

0:28:36.920 --> 0:28:40.560
<v Speaker 1>had been her executioner, stated quote, I never dreamt missus

0:28:40.560 --> 0:28:44.280
<v Speaker 1>Thompson would hang. I really believe the authorities would bow

0:28:44.360 --> 0:28:48.240
<v Speaker 1>before the storm of protest from the public. He retired

0:28:48.280 --> 0:28:52.360
<v Speaker 1>shortly thereafter, in nineteen twenty three. A quick trigger alert

0:28:52.440 --> 0:28:55.480
<v Speaker 1>here regarding suicide, So jump ahead ten seconds or so

0:28:55.640 --> 0:28:58.480
<v Speaker 1>if that is not something you want to hear. Ellis

0:28:58.520 --> 0:29:01.520
<v Speaker 1>went on to end his own life nineteen thirty one.

0:29:01.600 --> 0:29:04.520
<v Speaker 1>His closest friends and associates later stated that he was

0:29:04.640 --> 0:29:07.680
<v Speaker 1>never able to shake off the horrors he'd felt of

0:29:07.840 --> 0:29:10.880
<v Speaker 1>Edith's final sedated moments at the gallows.

0:29:11.920 --> 0:29:15.880
<v Speaker 2>Every woman sentenced to death during the previous decade had

0:29:15.920 --> 0:29:20.320
<v Speaker 2>been reprieved, yet please and appeals on Edith's behalf had

0:29:20.360 --> 0:29:24.280
<v Speaker 2>all been rejected. According to author Laura Thompson, quote when

0:29:24.320 --> 0:29:27.560
<v Speaker 2>you see the contortions which the Home Office underwent to

0:29:27.720 --> 0:29:33.400
<v Speaker 2>ensure that she was executed, it's really quite terrifying. Thompson believes,

0:29:33.440 --> 0:29:37.239
<v Speaker 2>as many now do, that Edith's adultery was seen as

0:29:37.320 --> 0:29:40.640
<v Speaker 2>quote an attack on morality and the sort of behavior

0:29:40.680 --> 0:29:43.800
<v Speaker 2>in a woman that risked quote destroying the institution of

0:29:43.880 --> 0:29:47.560
<v Speaker 2>marriage and destroying all that was good to that point.

0:29:47.680 --> 0:29:51.520
<v Speaker 2>After the execution, Home Secretary William Bridgeman received notes from

0:29:51.520 --> 0:29:54.800
<v Speaker 2>women thanking him for defending the honor of their sex

0:29:55.000 --> 0:29:57.840
<v Speaker 2>by not allowing the death sentence to be commuted.

0:29:58.360 --> 0:30:03.600
<v Speaker 1>Novelist and screenwriter and contemporary of Edith, Edgar Wallace stated quote,

0:30:03.920 --> 0:30:06.400
<v Speaker 1>if ever, in the history of this country a woman

0:30:06.520 --> 0:30:09.840
<v Speaker 1>was hanged by the sheer prejudice of the uninformed public,

0:30:10.160 --> 0:30:13.760
<v Speaker 1>and without the slightest modicum of evidence to justify the hanging,

0:30:14.360 --> 0:30:19.400
<v Speaker 1>that woman was Edith. Thompson. Edith's crime was not murder, quote,

0:30:19.440 --> 0:30:23.160
<v Speaker 1>it was that she was an attractive, unfaithful woman, and,

0:30:23.200 --> 0:30:25.280
<v Speaker 1>according to one expert on the case at the time,

0:30:25.400 --> 0:30:28.840
<v Speaker 1>she was quote a victim of a societal intolerance of

0:30:28.880 --> 0:30:32.200
<v Speaker 1>women who did not obey the moral codes of the day.

0:30:33.520 --> 0:30:37.840
<v Speaker 1>Modern historians frequently describe Edith's fate as an unmistakable act

0:30:37.880 --> 0:30:42.320
<v Speaker 1>of quote gendered social prejudice. Her lawyer would later state,

0:30:42.400 --> 0:30:45.520
<v Speaker 1>quote missus Thompson was hanged for immorality.

0:30:46.240 --> 0:30:50.160
<v Speaker 2>Those who believed and still believe she was not a

0:30:50.200 --> 0:30:53.640
<v Speaker 2>partner in this crime held that police and prosecutors in

0:30:53.680 --> 0:30:56.960
<v Speaker 2>this case found her adulterous behavior to be such bad

0:30:57.040 --> 0:31:00.920
<v Speaker 2>behavior that she deserved to die, regardless of whether she

0:31:01.040 --> 0:31:04.240
<v Speaker 2>was involved in her husband's murder or not. In his

0:31:04.320 --> 0:31:09.360
<v Speaker 2>book Verdict in Dispute, Edgar Lustgarden examined the controversial trial

0:31:09.480 --> 0:31:13.480
<v Speaker 2>and execution and stated that quote the Thompson verdict is

0:31:13.520 --> 0:31:16.720
<v Speaker 2>now recognized as bad, and the trial from which it

0:31:16.800 --> 0:31:19.720
<v Speaker 2>sprang stands out as an example of the evils that

0:31:19.800 --> 0:31:21.840
<v Speaker 2>may flow from an attitude of mind.

0:31:22.680 --> 0:31:25.959
<v Speaker 1>Another critique of her trial was made by author Lewis Brod,

0:31:26.040 --> 0:31:29.480
<v Speaker 1>whose book The Innocence of Edith Thompson, a study in

0:31:29.560 --> 0:31:33.440
<v Speaker 1>Old Bailey Justice, published in the early nineteen fifties, gives

0:31:33.520 --> 0:31:36.600
<v Speaker 1>us several arguments of her innocence as well as a

0:31:36.640 --> 0:31:40.920
<v Speaker 1>look at problems surrounding her trial. So to paraphrase his

0:31:41.040 --> 0:31:44.600
<v Speaker 1>points from his work. First, Broad points out the judge's

0:31:44.720 --> 0:31:47.880
<v Speaker 1>use of morally prejudiced language with the jury and that

0:31:48.000 --> 0:31:50.680
<v Speaker 1>he used it to incite the prejudice of the jury

0:31:51.000 --> 0:31:54.000
<v Speaker 1>and allowed the jury to be influenced by prejudice on

0:31:54.040 --> 0:31:58.480
<v Speaker 1>account of her immorality. Second, Broad suggests that prejudice was

0:31:58.520 --> 0:32:01.280
<v Speaker 1>allowed instead of what should have been the place of

0:32:01.400 --> 0:32:05.840
<v Speaker 1>proof of meaning, motive, and intention in respect of her letters.

0:32:06.680 --> 0:32:10.080
<v Speaker 1>And notably, he also stated that Edith was done at

0:32:10.080 --> 0:32:14.560
<v Speaker 1>a service by having to appear alongside Frederick Bywaters in

0:32:14.640 --> 0:32:17.520
<v Speaker 1>a single trial, and that she should have been granted

0:32:17.680 --> 0:32:19.360
<v Speaker 1>a separate trial of her own.

0:32:19.840 --> 0:32:23.720
<v Speaker 2>Broad also criticized the prosecution for the unfair use of

0:32:23.760 --> 0:32:27.040
<v Speaker 2>her letters at the trial and pointed out several problems,

0:32:27.240 --> 0:32:31.280
<v Speaker 2>and we're paraphrasing him again here on four things. The

0:32:31.280 --> 0:32:35.640
<v Speaker 2>first is that many of Edith's letters were censored by

0:32:35.680 --> 0:32:38.760
<v Speaker 2>the court during the trial because the judge felt subjects

0:32:38.840 --> 0:32:44.000
<v Speaker 2>like menstruation and orgasm were not proper for public discussion

0:32:44.720 --> 0:32:48.480
<v Speaker 2>of the available twenty five thousand words in total from

0:32:48.480 --> 0:32:52.320
<v Speaker 2>her letters, only a fifteen hundred word extract was used

0:32:52.320 --> 0:32:56.800
<v Speaker 2>at her trial. That's it. That's all the jury heard too.

0:32:57.240 --> 0:33:00.840
<v Speaker 2>There was only one unambiguous reference to poison in the

0:33:01.080 --> 0:33:05.240
<v Speaker 2>five months preceding the murder, yet it overwhelmed the judge

0:33:05.240 --> 0:33:08.520
<v Speaker 2>and prosecution's view of her involvement in her husband's death.

0:33:09.160 --> 0:33:13.440
<v Speaker 2>Three Nothing regarding the context of the murder suggested an

0:33:13.480 --> 0:33:17.640
<v Speaker 2>element of planning, and Freddy's version of events never wavered.

0:33:18.280 --> 0:33:20.960
<v Speaker 2>He admitted he entered into what he thought would be

0:33:21.000 --> 0:33:24.440
<v Speaker 2>a scuffle, but it ended in a death. Despite a

0:33:24.560 --> 0:33:29.840
<v Speaker 2>meandering and very casual discussion of the fantasy of Percy's murder,

0:33:30.240 --> 0:33:33.280
<v Speaker 2>there is nothing in Edith's letters that amounted to any

0:33:33.320 --> 0:33:37.680
<v Speaker 2>sort of agreement or conspiracy to kill. And the fourth

0:33:38.000 --> 0:33:40.600
<v Speaker 2>that the letters were part of a fantasy between two

0:33:40.800 --> 0:33:44.920
<v Speaker 2>enamored parties was not disclosed to the jury. They should

0:33:44.920 --> 0:33:48.840
<v Speaker 2>have been treated like what they were, love letters. Instead,

0:33:48.880 --> 0:33:52.680
<v Speaker 2>the judge and prosecution saw them as mission directives.

0:33:53.520 --> 0:33:56.640
<v Speaker 1>Edith's body was buried quote within the precincts of the

0:33:56.680 --> 0:33:59.880
<v Speaker 1>prison in which she was last confined in a court

0:34:00.280 --> 0:34:04.520
<v Speaker 1>with her sentence, but then on November twenty second, twenty eighteen,

0:34:04.560 --> 0:34:09.680
<v Speaker 1>she was finally formally reinterred alongside her parents in accordance

0:34:09.719 --> 0:34:12.759
<v Speaker 1>with her mother's wishes, at the City of London Cemetery

0:34:12.800 --> 0:34:16.640
<v Speaker 1>at Manor Park. A partner in crime to murder through

0:34:16.680 --> 0:34:19.320
<v Speaker 1>modernize this is one time when we get to report

0:34:20.000 --> 0:34:23.960
<v Speaker 1>likely not we never get to report that, where I

0:34:24.160 --> 0:34:28.120
<v Speaker 1>was like, probably, would you like to make it a double.

0:34:28.320 --> 0:34:29.040
<v Speaker 2>I would love to.

0:34:29.200 --> 0:34:32.799
<v Speaker 1>This is a horrible, horrible story, it is. I kept

0:34:32.840 --> 0:34:35.759
<v Speaker 1>thinking about a number of things as I was trying

0:34:35.800 --> 0:34:37.279
<v Speaker 1>to come up with a drink for this, because it's

0:34:37.320 --> 0:34:41.840
<v Speaker 1>not a particularly joyous story, and I kept thinking about

0:34:41.880 --> 0:34:45.520
<v Speaker 1>two things in particular. One is a weird detail and

0:34:45.600 --> 0:34:49.600
<v Speaker 1>one is just about the nature of Edith's personality. So

0:34:49.760 --> 0:34:53.520
<v Speaker 1>one this may sound a little grizzly, but I wanted

0:34:53.600 --> 0:34:57.480
<v Speaker 1>to get something with a reddish tinge because I kept

0:34:57.520 --> 0:35:00.960
<v Speaker 1>thinking about how much blood was reported at the crime scene,

0:35:02.120 --> 0:35:04.399
<v Speaker 1>and then this whole idea of blood after the fact

0:35:05.000 --> 0:35:08.400
<v Speaker 1>just all kind of gruesome, but it made me just

0:35:08.440 --> 0:35:10.920
<v Speaker 1>feel like that was right. And blood is also you know,

0:35:11.000 --> 0:35:13.319
<v Speaker 1>red is also the color that we think about when

0:35:13.360 --> 0:35:17.520
<v Speaker 1>we think about passion and romance anyway, And I really

0:35:17.600 --> 0:35:22.880
<v Speaker 1>find myself it's not identifying, but sympathizing quite deeply with

0:35:23.120 --> 0:35:26.880
<v Speaker 1>Edith Right because she is clearly this person who envisions

0:35:27.960 --> 0:35:30.759
<v Speaker 1>a life of greater passion and excitement than the one

0:35:30.800 --> 0:35:32.759
<v Speaker 1>that she is in, which I think a lot of

0:35:32.800 --> 0:35:35.319
<v Speaker 1>people experience and a lot of us have had those

0:35:35.360 --> 0:35:38.960
<v Speaker 1>moments where we're just like, I would like more thrill

0:35:39.080 --> 0:35:43.200
<v Speaker 1>than what I'm living right now, And so it's pretty

0:35:43.280 --> 0:35:46.680
<v Speaker 1>natural to have, you know, fantasy ideas of like what

0:35:46.760 --> 0:35:50.080
<v Speaker 1>your life could be. Oh yeah, and the idea that

0:35:50.120 --> 0:35:54.360
<v Speaker 1>you could potentially commit some of those fantasy ideas, you

0:35:54.440 --> 0:35:56.480
<v Speaker 1>don't think of them as reality. There are things you

0:35:56.520 --> 0:35:59.520
<v Speaker 1>work through to kind of give yourself the you know,

0:35:59.640 --> 0:36:04.120
<v Speaker 1>dope mean hit of what if. And the idea that

0:36:04.280 --> 0:36:07.080
<v Speaker 1>something that is so personal like that could then become

0:36:08.160 --> 0:36:14.799
<v Speaker 1>not just evidence but also published in folio form, could

0:36:14.840 --> 0:36:20.400
<v Speaker 1>be like shared throughout the country and the world is horrifying.

0:36:20.440 --> 0:36:22.440
<v Speaker 1>I mean, I just find myself going, oh my gosh,

0:36:22.520 --> 0:36:26.440
<v Speaker 1>if like my texts among my closest friends are like

0:36:26.480 --> 0:36:28.480
<v Speaker 1>between me and my husband were ever shared, I'm sure

0:36:28.520 --> 0:36:31.360
<v Speaker 1>someone could like twist something to make it sound like

0:36:31.400 --> 0:36:34.120
<v Speaker 1>I was a monster. Even if like, you know you're

0:36:34.320 --> 0:36:37.000
<v Speaker 1>you're saying something sarcastic, but when you're reading it straight,

0:36:37.000 --> 0:36:41.040
<v Speaker 1>people don't know that. Similarly, when Edith is like in

0:36:41.080 --> 0:36:45.800
<v Speaker 1>this relationship where she feels safe sharing her imaginary thoughts

0:36:46.160 --> 0:36:50.759
<v Speaker 1>with someone else, the whole thing just sounds horrifying.

0:36:50.239 --> 0:36:53.040
<v Speaker 2>To me and right frontage news.

0:36:53.360 --> 0:36:57.239
<v Speaker 1>And I wanted to think about all of this in

0:36:57.560 --> 0:37:05.120
<v Speaker 1>a way that would create a drink that is pretty strong,

0:37:05.640 --> 0:37:09.480
<v Speaker 1>a little unexpected if you know what's in it, an

0:37:09.600 --> 0:37:13.799
<v Speaker 1>extra unexpected because it kind of looks like something it's not,

0:37:13.960 --> 0:37:16.120
<v Speaker 1>which we've done a little bit on previous seasons, but

0:37:16.440 --> 0:37:19.359
<v Speaker 1>I really wanted to lean into this this time around.

0:37:19.880 --> 0:37:23.680
<v Speaker 1>This is called romantic imagination. The first drink that comes

0:37:23.719 --> 0:37:25.640
<v Speaker 1>to mind when I think of something very red is,

0:37:25.680 --> 0:37:29.520
<v Speaker 1>of course the Negroni, which is, as we know, is

0:37:30.040 --> 0:37:34.120
<v Speaker 1>not really my big fave, but many people love it.

0:37:34.680 --> 0:37:36.640
<v Speaker 1>No shade if you do. But I wanted to do

0:37:36.680 --> 0:37:42.680
<v Speaker 1>something that was a little bit sweeter maybe, but also

0:37:42.760 --> 0:37:45.320
<v Speaker 1>had a tartness. I wanted it to be one of

0:37:45.320 --> 0:37:47.440
<v Speaker 1>those drinks that as you're drinking it, you're like, is

0:37:47.480 --> 0:37:52.520
<v Speaker 1>this a sweet drink or a tower drink? And also

0:37:52.560 --> 0:37:54.840
<v Speaker 1>one that looks like a negroni more or less, so

0:37:55.480 --> 0:37:58.040
<v Speaker 1>it's very easy to put together. You are going to

0:37:58.200 --> 0:38:01.840
<v Speaker 1>use one ounce of sweet vermouth, which would be in

0:38:01.840 --> 0:38:05.280
<v Speaker 1>an a grony, but that's the only crossover. One ounce

0:38:05.360 --> 0:38:08.160
<v Speaker 1>of crem de noio, which is a liqueur that we've

0:38:08.239 --> 0:38:10.560
<v Speaker 1>used before, although not very often. It has like an

0:38:10.600 --> 0:38:14.600
<v Speaker 1>almondy flavor to it, one ounce of vodka because you

0:38:14.600 --> 0:38:17.120
<v Speaker 1>want a neutral spirit there, and then one ounce of

0:38:17.440 --> 0:38:21.319
<v Speaker 1>lemon juice. And you just shake this and strain it

0:38:21.360 --> 0:38:24.000
<v Speaker 1>into a glass of ice. And it is a strange

0:38:24.000 --> 0:38:27.200
<v Speaker 1>one because as you're sipping it, the sweet and the

0:38:27.280 --> 0:38:31.680
<v Speaker 1>tart of the citrus are they're not at odds because

0:38:31.680 --> 0:38:34.880
<v Speaker 1>you're not like this feels unbalanced or weird, but it

0:38:34.920 --> 0:38:37.960
<v Speaker 1>is hard to decide which one you're tasting More of

0:38:38.920 --> 0:38:41.600
<v Speaker 1>that make we're all sip it and be like this

0:38:41.640 --> 0:38:43.440
<v Speaker 1>is quite tart, and then I'll have another sip and go, no,

0:38:43.520 --> 0:38:46.520
<v Speaker 1>it isn't. Now I taste the sweet almond no and

0:38:46.640 --> 0:38:48.840
<v Speaker 1>some of that I think is just the aromas that

0:38:48.880 --> 0:38:51.200
<v Speaker 1>you're getting from it as well that are feeding that.

0:38:52.120 --> 0:38:57.320
<v Speaker 1>But it does kind of make this very oddly sippable,

0:38:57.360 --> 0:39:00.600
<v Speaker 1>considering it is a lot of alcohol at that point, right,

0:39:00.680 --> 0:39:02.919
<v Speaker 1>You're three ounces of alcohol with a little lemon juice

0:39:02.920 --> 0:39:06.480
<v Speaker 1>added to my palate. It did not taste super alcoholic.

0:39:07.280 --> 0:39:10.239
<v Speaker 1>It really the lemon juice really undercuts all of that.

0:39:10.760 --> 0:39:13.120
<v Speaker 1>But that makes it also, you know, a little bit dangerous,

0:39:13.160 --> 0:39:17.000
<v Speaker 1>so be careful. But I wanted something where you were

0:39:17.040 --> 0:39:21.280
<v Speaker 1>not sure and it didn't quite make sense because Edith's

0:39:21.760 --> 0:39:26.600
<v Speaker 1>entire trial and execution did not quite make sense, right, right,

0:39:27.040 --> 0:39:30.560
<v Speaker 1>So that is the inspiration for the romantic imagination. To

0:39:30.680 --> 0:39:33.680
<v Speaker 1>make the mocktail. You will still use your one ounce

0:39:33.680 --> 0:39:37.120
<v Speaker 1>of lemon juice, but obviously beyond that everything's got to change.

0:39:37.160 --> 0:39:40.919
<v Speaker 1>So you will do one ounce of almonds syrup, one

0:39:41.000 --> 0:39:43.319
<v Speaker 1>ounce of a grape juice, and you do want like

0:39:43.640 --> 0:39:46.239
<v Speaker 1>a dark grape juice for this, not a white which

0:39:46.280 --> 0:39:48.760
<v Speaker 1>comes up frequently and will come up in a future segment.

0:39:49.400 --> 0:39:51.719
<v Speaker 1>And then you're gonna take those three things, shake them

0:39:51.719 --> 0:39:54.439
<v Speaker 1>with ice, strain them over ice, and then you'll top

0:39:54.520 --> 0:39:57.360
<v Speaker 1>it with one ounce of club sodas. So the mocktail

0:39:57.400 --> 0:40:00.719
<v Speaker 1>has a little bit of bubble to it. Similarly, it

0:40:00.800 --> 0:40:04.560
<v Speaker 1>is like, am I getting more almond or more lemon?

0:40:04.719 --> 0:40:06.400
<v Speaker 1>Is this tart or is this sweet?

0:40:06.480 --> 0:40:07.800
<v Speaker 2>I'm not having the same effect.

0:40:07.880 --> 0:40:10.320
<v Speaker 1>That's nice. I actually really like the mocked out version.

0:40:12.239 --> 0:40:14.080
<v Speaker 1>I'm like, Oh, we can make a bunch of those,

0:40:14.160 --> 0:40:16.319
<v Speaker 1>and then we'll add vodka to that. I don't know,

0:40:16.400 --> 0:40:19.160
<v Speaker 1>we'll see, but in any case, if you make it,

0:40:19.239 --> 0:40:22.120
<v Speaker 1>I hope that it is delicious to your palette. We're

0:40:22.160 --> 0:40:24.080
<v Speaker 1>so grateful that you spent this time with us, and

0:40:24.120 --> 0:40:26.360
<v Speaker 1>we will be right back here next week with another

0:40:26.400 --> 0:40:30.320
<v Speaker 1>tale of criminal duos. Will they actually be criminals?

0:40:30.360 --> 0:40:30.759
<v Speaker 2>We don't know.

0:40:30.800 --> 0:40:37.000
<v Speaker 1>Well, you can figure that out later. Criminalia is a

0:40:37.040 --> 0:40:41.040
<v Speaker 1>production of Shondaland Audio in partnership with iHeartRadio. For more

0:40:41.080 --> 0:40:46.120
<v Speaker 1>podcasts from Shondaland Audio, please visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

0:40:46.239 --> 0:40:48.520
<v Speaker 1>or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.