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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wire to Hunt podcast, your home for

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Speaker 1: deer hunting news, stories and strategies, and now your host,

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Speaker 1: Mark Kenyon. Welcome to the Wire to Hunt Podcast. I'm

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Speaker 1: your host, Mark Kenyan, and this is episode number eighty

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Speaker 1: three Tay In the show, we're joined by conservation icon

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Speaker 1: Shane Mahoney, and we'll be discussing the history and the

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Speaker 1: future of hunting in North America. Before we get into

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Speaker 1: the show, I want to give you guys a quick

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Speaker 1: heads up. Make sure you listen all the way to

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Speaker 1: the end of our episode today because we are launching

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Speaker 1: a holiday sweepstakes in which we're giving away a bear

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Speaker 1: archery bow, a Sick Gear shack it and fanatic beanie

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Speaker 1: and a Wired to Hunt gear package. So listen all

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Speaker 1: the way through to find out what you need to

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Speaker 1: do to win those great prizes. And now let's kick

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Speaker 1: off the show. All right, Welcome to the Wired to

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Speaker 1: Hunt Podcast, brought to you by Sick Gear, and today

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Speaker 1: we have got a topic and guest that I am

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Speaker 1: absolutely thrilled about joining us is Shane Mahoney, one of

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Speaker 1: the most revered, respected, and accomplished conservationists in North America

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Speaker 1: and a man who has done more for hunting and

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Speaker 1: wildlife than almost anyone I know. And when I first

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Speaker 1: heard Shane speak about hunting and conservation actually in an

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Speaker 1: old YouTube video several years ago, I was just floored.

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Speaker 1: Mr Mahoney is an incredibly powerful and inspirational speaker on

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Speaker 1: these topics, as you'll soon find out, And when I

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Speaker 1: got to meet him in person this past spring, I

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Speaker 1: immediately knew that I had to find some way in

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Speaker 1: the future to share his words and message with the

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Speaker 1: Wired Hunt listeners. And finally today we're going to do that,

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Speaker 1: and I'm really excited about it. Shane is just someone

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Speaker 1: to listen to and to learn from, and I'd urge

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Speaker 1: all of you to do that today, to really take

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Speaker 1: what he has to say to heart. And I say

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Speaker 1: this because I believe his message and the cause that

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Speaker 1: he's working towards is one that all of us hunters

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Speaker 1: need to be invested in. You know, if we hope

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Speaker 1: to continue hunting, and if we hope to have wild

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Speaker 1: animals to pursue in places to pursue them in, you know,

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Speaker 1: if we want our children and grandchildren to be able

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Speaker 1: to do these things, We're going to need to get

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Speaker 1: off our tail ends and start taking action on a

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Speaker 1: lot of these things that Shane is working towards and promoting.

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Speaker 1: So this is my very long winded way of saying

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Speaker 1: that this is going to be an awesome episode and

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Speaker 1: I'm really excited that you're joining us for it. But

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Speaker 1: before we get to this very important stuff, you know,

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Speaker 1: we need to throw in a really short, unimportant tangent here,

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Speaker 1: and my apologies, but this is my one chance to

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Speaker 1: really stick it to my co host Dan. Saturday night,

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Speaker 1: my Michigan State Spartans took on your Iowa Hawk guys

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Speaker 1: in the Big Ten championship game. And I don't know

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Speaker 1: if you knew this, but we came out on top.

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Speaker 1: Did I not tell you this would happen? Uh? You

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Speaker 1: said you were going to stomp us. Well, in the

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Speaker 1: last nine minutes we did that. Say, well, yeah, you

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Speaker 1: did make one hell of a drive. I'm gonna tell

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Speaker 1: you right now, that was one of the best football games.

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Speaker 1: Whether you're a State fan or an Iowa fan, that

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Speaker 1: was one of the best football games. Hard hitting, like,

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Speaker 1: I did not sit down. I was in my buddies

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Speaker 1: basement basically pacing back and forth the entire time. I

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Speaker 1: was telling people to shut up so I could so

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Speaker 1: I could listen to it. But that was one tough game.

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Speaker 1: I mean they were, they were laying would Yeah, it

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Speaker 1: was yeah, agree, And I can't I can't even bash

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Speaker 1: you because it was such a good game. I was

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Speaker 1: so tough. I mean, like you said, that was just

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Speaker 1: a good old fashioned, hard nose, tough football game. And

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Speaker 1: I will really impress me. And you mean you guys

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Speaker 1: were you guys were stout, very stout. I'll tell you

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Speaker 1: right now. I hope you guys go on and win

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Speaker 1: the entire thing, because that way I can I can say, oh, dude,

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Speaker 1: we lost to the National champions. Yeah, that that would

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Speaker 1: sound a lot better. Yeah, But I mean aside from

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Speaker 1: I'll tell you what, aside from the who's your d

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Speaker 1: n Calhoun was his name? Or was his name? Calhoun? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that dude, it's a stud and he got like what

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Speaker 1: three sacks? I think it was two sacks and a

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Speaker 1: quarterback hurry and three tackles for a loss. That dude's stud.

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Speaker 1: We couldn't block him, and uh we dropped like three

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Speaker 1: or four first down passes. You guys had a ton

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Speaker 1: of like that first first half. I'm like, the only

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Speaker 1: reason we're still in it is because of your guys

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Speaker 1: penalties and they were all like third down conversion called

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Speaker 1: back for penalties right or And then we had one

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Speaker 1: where we rough the putter and uh and that resulted

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Speaker 1: in a first that was like a fourth and fifteen

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Speaker 1: or fourth and twenty, and we rough the passer. So

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Speaker 1: it was just like, oh my god, Hawks, you're shooting

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Speaker 1: yourself in the foot here, you know. We and then

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Speaker 1: and then that last drive, man, it came down to

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Speaker 1: you know, he ran for that first down on fourth down,

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Speaker 1: he got the first down, and and then we pretty

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Speaker 1: much held him and all that dude did was stick

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Speaker 1: his arm out, And I was like, no, I'll tell

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Speaker 1: you what, I took a couple of a couple of

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Speaker 1: years off my life with the stress and dirt on

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Speaker 1: that one. Yeah, but that was one hell of a game,

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Speaker 1: and I'm proud of the Hawkeyes. Like I say, man,

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Speaker 1: i don't care if the Hawkeyes go next year go

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Speaker 1: oh and twelve, and the year after that to go

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Speaker 1: oh and twelve. I'm always gonna be a Hawkeye fan

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Speaker 1: till the day I die, you know, just like you're

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Speaker 1: gonna be a Michigan State Spartans. But it's just really

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Speaker 1: fun to win. Yeah, yeah, you should be protus. But

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Speaker 1: a heck of a year for you guys, and hopefully

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Speaker 1: you can stop Stanford in the Rose Bowl. Yep. And

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Speaker 1: if I ever see Colin call Heard whatever his name is,

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Speaker 1: that ESPN guy, I might pee on him. I saw

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Speaker 1: a Facebook post by you. But what in in cliff

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Speaker 1: notes version here, what did Colin say about you guys

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Speaker 1: that got you so upset? He he is giving us

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Speaker 1: zero credit to forgetting where we got with our players

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Speaker 1: and with our He's calling us a baby of the

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Speaker 1: Big Ten. And the only reason we got to where

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Speaker 1: we got is because we we play week teams at

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Speaker 1: the beginning of the season. But for the most part,

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Speaker 1: other than I mean, you guys played Oregon, right, yep, yep,

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Speaker 1: Oregan and and Notre Dame. I believe right, we didn't

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Speaker 1: get Notre Dame this year. We played played Oregon beat

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Speaker 1: then we beat the Air Force, who was a ten

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Speaker 1: win team last year I think, and uh, Western Michigan

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Speaker 1: was decent. Yeah. So so the first you know, historically

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Speaker 1: for the Big Ten, the first couple of games of

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Speaker 1: the season are against team like lesser ranked teams you know,

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Speaker 1: low bottom in your teams, and he's crapping on us

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Speaker 1: about that. Yeah, that's that's so whatever. He's irrelevant in

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Speaker 1: my life and he always will be. And ah and

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Speaker 1: just I mean he's he's trash in Iowa and and

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Speaker 1: the Iowa fans are pissed and I don't know, it's

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Speaker 1: it's all over. Yeah. Well you know those guys, those

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Speaker 1: guys who are talking to a microphone for all day,

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Speaker 1: they're full of it, right right, They just want attention, right. Um,

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Speaker 1: So football aside, I want to give one really quick

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Speaker 1: up on a hunting standpoint before we get Mr Mahoney

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Speaker 1: on the line. Um, I just want to wrap up

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Speaker 1: a loose end from our podcast last weekdan um, because

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Speaker 1: last week we talked about how I was in Iowa

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Speaker 1: hunting there for a few more days, and you know,

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Speaker 1: you and I had talked through you know that this

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Speaker 1: dilemma I had, how I was hunting on this this

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Speaker 1: little section of the property that I found, um where

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Speaker 1: I had actually been seeing some mature bucks and I

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Speaker 1: was able to get a little spot here where there

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Speaker 1: wasn't other hunting pressure. Um. But the challenge was it

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Speaker 1: was just a field, and so I was stuck hunting

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Speaker 1: these edges and I couldn't find a good way, um

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Speaker 1: to get at these deer. Well, a solution came around, well,

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Speaker 1: at least an ending to the problem came around in

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Speaker 1: and uh, that next night, after I talked to you

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Speaker 1: on the podcast, I went in there with a plan

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Speaker 1: and I was going to hunt one more night in

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Speaker 1: that stand and then I was going to adjust if

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Speaker 1: something didn't happen good that night. And as I go

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Speaker 1: into this this area, um, there were some a TV

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Speaker 1: tracks heading into this little back corner and I was

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Speaker 1: a little worried abou out that. But you know, the

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Speaker 1: past couple of trips I've been there, there's a TV

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Speaker 1: tracks everywhere, so I was hoping it wouldn't be too bad. Um.

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Speaker 1: But I got to my stand, climbed up in the stand.

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Speaker 1: As I'm sitting up there, I hear what sounds like

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Speaker 1: a generator, and I'm like, what in the world is

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Speaker 1: This is really windy, though, so I'm like, am I

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Speaker 1: just hearing things? My going nuts? And then I look

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Speaker 1: back behind my shoulder and in the back corner of

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Speaker 1: this section of the property I'm hunting just over the

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Speaker 1: property border on the neighbors. There was an old abandoned

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Speaker 1: trailer that had been there, you know, since day one,

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Speaker 1: since I've been hunting over here, and it always have

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Speaker 1: been there, um, and just looked like an old abandoned

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Speaker 1: you know, I don't know trailer, um, and deer had

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Speaker 1: been coming out right past this building every time I

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Speaker 1: hunted it. I mean, this is where some of those

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Speaker 1: big bucks that I've been after had been coming through.

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Speaker 1: So I never worried about it. But as I look

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Speaker 1: back over my shoulder at this abandoned trailer, I realized

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Speaker 1: there's smoke coming out of a little chimney pipe in

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Speaker 1: this once abandoned trailer. And long story short, there was

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Speaker 1: shotgun hunters there and um, so I'm kind of dismayed.

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Speaker 1: I'm sitting this is this is like a hundred yards

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Speaker 1: away from my stand, and he's right there. It's right

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Speaker 1: in my wheelhouse, right where these deer be coming out.

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Speaker 1: So I'm like, oh my gosh, this spot's ruined. So

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Speaker 1: I pulled on my tree stand. I'm trying fay, Okay,

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Speaker 1: what am I gonna do? How can I adjust? It's

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Speaker 1: like three thirty, it's getting dark like five or something. Um,

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Speaker 1: so I'm like, you know that this hunt's bust unless

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Speaker 1: I do something quick. So I pulled on my stand

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Speaker 1: and decided to move to the other side of this

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Speaker 1: back corner, maybe like five six yards away, where I'd

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Speaker 1: seen some mother deer come out in my past hunts.

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Speaker 1: I thought, I'll try to get up quick enough to

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Speaker 1: hunt the last hour. So I pulled everything down. I

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Speaker 1: hustle my way over there, sneaking through this low spot

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Speaker 1: in the field, and get over there and find a tree.

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Speaker 1: It looks pretty good. I start putting up my climbing sticks,

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Speaker 1: start hanging my stand, and then I hear crashing behind me.

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Speaker 1: Here comes another hunter, and long story short, really nice guy,

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Speaker 1: but he was, you know, had this shotgun camp up

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Speaker 1: and he was planning on hunting there the next couple

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Speaker 1: of days, etcetera, etcetera. And he asked that, you know,

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Speaker 1: you know, that maybe he could hunt there and I

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Speaker 1: would find another spot, since that's where he traditionally was

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Speaker 1: going to be. And I of course respected that and

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Speaker 1: moved on. But moral of the story is that the

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Speaker 1: next couple of days, I tried some new spots, did

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Speaker 1: some scouting late that night, glass and fields try to

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Speaker 1: figure out some different spots where they might be dear.

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Speaker 1: But it did not go well and I had to

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Speaker 1: leave Iowa with my tag in hand. So that's that's

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Speaker 1: the final store in Iowa. There you go. You're gonna

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Speaker 1: come back late season? I think I'm done. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: don't know. I guess I could come back in January,

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Speaker 1: but that's that's really busy time for me with the conventions,

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Speaker 1: a t A show, shots, show, all that kind of stuff.

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Speaker 1: So I don't think I'm gonna be able to make it.

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Speaker 1: So that was a bummer way for the trip to end.

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Speaker 1: I was excited. I thought, you know, I thought the

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Speaker 1: pressure wouldn't be the hunting pressure would not be an

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Speaker 1: issue anymore for that a few days before Shotgun. But

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Speaker 1: I didn't end up going that way, so so it

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Speaker 1: goes right, Hey man, you had a pretty badass season anyway.

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Speaker 1: It's not like it was a total loss, right, So yeah,

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Speaker 1: I can't complain, And then you'll probably I don't know

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Speaker 1: you Are you gonna be able to Hio next year?

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Speaker 1: You gotta buy a point to get back into that area. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it'll take me two years to get back. I got you,

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Speaker 1: and you should really think about as far as Bow

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Speaker 1: hunting is concerned. You should really think and this is

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Speaker 1: my personal opinion about trying a different zone. I know

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Speaker 1: there's a big Bucks there, but it sounds to me

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Speaker 1: like you were pretty heavy. There was a lot of

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Speaker 1: heavy A lot of places too, a lot more people anyway. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And I don't know if that's a zone issue or

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Speaker 1: just like this property, these properties I got permission issue.

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Speaker 1: So I don't know what we'll see. It's a something

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Speaker 1: I'll be thinking about over the coming month, that's for sure.

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Speaker 1: Got you well all that aside, though, I guess Dan,

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Speaker 1: we got our football talk out of the way, we

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Speaker 1: got our hunting update out of the way. Do you

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Speaker 1: think it's time to start talking about some serious hunting

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Speaker 1: and conservation content here? Yeah, I tell you. And for

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Speaker 1: those guys who are, you know, just interested about strategy,

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Speaker 1: about products, about how to kill the big buck, none

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Speaker 1: of that happens without this next discussion. So just make

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Speaker 1: sure that you are you pay attention, and don't you know,

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Speaker 1: don't just skip over this podcast because it may seem boring.

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Speaker 1: This is the important stuff. Yeah, I d percent agree

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Speaker 1: with that. This Um, we're not talking about ten tactics

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Speaker 1: to kill to kill a deer in the late season,

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Speaker 1: or fifteen ways to do better during the rut um.

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Speaker 1: But we are talking about probably the most important topic

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Speaker 1: related to hunting and what we do. So I think

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Speaker 1: with that intro, Dan, I think we should take a

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Speaker 1: quick break for a word from our sponsors and then

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Speaker 1: give Mr sham Mahoney a call. Alright, So, as we

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Speaker 1: do every week, we're going to pause briefly for a

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Speaker 1: word from Sick Gear, who has so graciously helped support

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Speaker 1: this podcast in two thousand fifteen. So today we're going

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Speaker 1: to hear from Sitka white Tail product category leader Dennis

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Speaker 1: Suck and specifically I want to dennist to fill us

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Speaker 1: in a bit about the different types of insulation that

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Speaker 1: are most commonly used in cold weather gear, those being

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Speaker 1: down insulation versus synthetic insulation. So here's Dennis with a lowdown. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And you know, we were a company that kind of

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Speaker 1: uses a blend in the middle of times, so it's

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Speaker 1: a it's a really profound thought in some place because

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Speaker 1: we we manage that every day, you know, and your

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Speaker 1: synthetics typically um, they're very breathable meaning vapor permamble. They

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Speaker 1: let they let things move through. It really well, they're

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Speaker 1: also very controllable, so you know, you know whether it's

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Speaker 1: your chest or your pocket or down the piece, you

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Speaker 1: know exactly where all the insulation is all the time. Um.

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Speaker 1: So in that world, you know, that's a great solution

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Speaker 1: where you're trying to control that migration of insulation. You

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Speaker 1: also thinking about dry and all that other stuff. You know,

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Speaker 1: when you move in to something, you know like a down,

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Speaker 1: you know down is super warm. You know, you just

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Speaker 1: startking about cloth values and things around warmth. It's super warm,

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Speaker 1: but you know it's subjective to wetting out, getting wet

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Speaker 1: and getting heavy. It's subjective to migration and moving around

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Speaker 1: in the piece. And that's why you know, we've worked

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Speaker 1: with you know, Primal Loft to create it. In our

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Speaker 1: Senerator series use a Prima down. And what that is

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Speaker 1: is you're taken and you're you're treating that feather with

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Speaker 1: a g w R, which is a durable water repellency

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Speaker 1: so to kind of just doesn't want to suck water up. Um.

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Speaker 1: And then you're nesting it within a synthetic environment so

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Speaker 1: you can so you can kind of map it so

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Speaker 1: it's right where you want it to be. So we

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Speaker 1: play a little game in the middle. Um, but I

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Speaker 1: think it's just given your given some thought around the way,

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Speaker 1: given some thought about how wet is kind of where

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Speaker 1: I'm going to be, Um, what are my thermal goals?

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Speaker 1: How cold is it going to be? I think those

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Speaker 1: things are important when you make that decision. Interesting stuff there,

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Speaker 1: And if you are interested in learning more about sick

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Speaker 1: of Gears cold weather options, visit sick of Gear dot com. Um,

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Speaker 1: and now let's get Mr Shane Mahoney on the phone.

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Speaker 1: All right with us. Now on the phone is Shane Mahoney.

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Speaker 1: Welcome the show. Shane. Well, thank you very much for

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Speaker 1: having me. It's a pleasure. Yeah. I mentioned just a

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Speaker 1: couple of minutes ago on the show that you are

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Speaker 1: someone that I've wanted to have on our podcast for

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Speaker 1: a long time now, since we since we met actually

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Speaker 1: back in I think it was April at the National

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Speaker 1: Deer Alliance Convention. I just knew that your message and

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Speaker 1: the things that you stand for and talk about are

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Speaker 1: something that I really really wanted our audience to hear about.

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Speaker 1: And Um, that said, while I'm familiar with who you

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Speaker 1: are and Dan Is, for those that aren't, could you

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Speaker 1: give us a little bit of background as to you know,

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Speaker 1: what you're doing today and how you got into this

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Speaker 1: line of work. Sure, Um, well, I've been working on

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Speaker 1: behalf of wildlife all my life. I've been fascinated with

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Speaker 1: animals for as long as I can remember. I'm a

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Speaker 1: hunter and a fisherman, but I'm also a research biologist

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Speaker 1: m A ruan major research programs for many years for

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Speaker 1: the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador, largely predator pray studies

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Speaker 1: of large mammals. Um. You know, I've done a lot

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Speaker 1: of scientific work, but I've also uh spoken a great

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Speaker 1: deal and written a great deal about hunting, its past,

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Speaker 1: its present, and its future and its role in conservation.

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Speaker 1: And I work in association with most or many of

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Speaker 1: the large hunter based organizations in the United States and Canada.

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Speaker 1: But I'm also do a lot of additional work on

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Speaker 1: behalf of wildlife for international agencies such as the United Nations,

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Speaker 1: the International Council for the Conservation of Wildlife, etcetera. And

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Speaker 1: I have my own organization which is called Conservation Visions,

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Speaker 1: which is called that because I believe there are many

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Speaker 1: views around the world that need to be brought together

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Speaker 1: to secure the future of wildlife. And to maintain hunting

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Speaker 1: as we go forward. Yeah, I, UM, your your resume

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Speaker 1: there is very extensive and impressive. UM, and it's it's

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Speaker 1: a little intimidating for someone like me who looks up

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Speaker 1: to the work you've done as something to to work towards.

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Speaker 1: And so I guess just to kick things off, I

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Speaker 1: want to thank you for everything you've done so far

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Speaker 1: and uh, and just let you know that that Dan

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Speaker 1: and I and everyone we were excited and thankful that

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Speaker 1: you're doing the work that you are doing because it

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Speaker 1: allows us to pursue our passions that that so many

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Speaker 1: of us hunters have across the world. And I guess

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Speaker 1: I guess where I wanted to go with our conversation

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Speaker 1: today's Shane is is kind of in two two parts here,

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Speaker 1: and it's pretty simple. I want to look first at

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Speaker 1: where we came from. You know, how hunters really in

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Speaker 1: my belief and I think a lot of people believe

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Speaker 1: that hunters really sparked the modern conservation movement. So given

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Speaker 1: what I've heard from you, I know you've spoken about

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Speaker 1: this a lot in the past, I'd love to hear

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Speaker 1: more about that. And then from there, I want to

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Speaker 1: hear about and I want to discuss between the three

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Speaker 1: of us, you know, what has that given that background,

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Speaker 1: given that history, what does that mean for us today,

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Speaker 1: and how do we carry on that mission into the future.

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Speaker 1: So I'm hoping we can talk about the history and

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Speaker 1: the future of hunting and conservation, you know, in this

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Speaker 1: continent on North America, across the world, and a lot

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Speaker 1: of different things that kind of fall into that. But

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Speaker 1: before we guess to start that whole conversation, I've heard

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Speaker 1: you speak a couple of times on a topic that

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Speaker 1: I find pretty fascinating and I think a lot of

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Speaker 1: people are interested in and maybe try to speak about,

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Speaker 1: but maybe don't know how to speak about that. And

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Speaker 1: that is how hunting in some ways made us who

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Speaker 1: we are, made us humans almost from an evolutionary aspect.

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Speaker 1: If heard you talk about this in the past, and

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Speaker 1: you've got some fascinating perspectives, UM, an insight into the

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Speaker 1: history of of how hunting maybe made us human. Can

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Speaker 1: you can you share with us your thoughts on that

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Speaker 1: and why that might be the case? Sure of course. Well,

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Speaker 1: you know, um, the history of human development is pretty clear. Um,

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Speaker 1: we have unraveled many of the mysteries about how we

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Speaker 1: came to be as we are, and one of the

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Speaker 1: things that we know very well is that when we

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Speaker 1: finally became capable of killing and harvesting the protein uh

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Speaker 1: that wild animals have, um our trajectory of developments set

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Speaker 1: off on a very rapid pace that saw massive expansions

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Speaker 1: in our brains, which ultimately led us to the kind

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Speaker 1: of broad institutions and adaptations that marcus as humans, namely,

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Speaker 1: the the capacity for developing technology, the kind of ceremonial

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Speaker 1: things that we developed, such as art and religion, the

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Speaker 1: abilities to live together, the abilities to think about complicated issues.

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Speaker 1: Much of this was driven in our development evolutionarily by

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Speaker 1: our capacities to actually not only interact with animals and

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Speaker 1: evade predators, of course, but also to um to subdue,

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Speaker 1: and to kill and harvest wild animals. The result is that,

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Speaker 1: of course, we ended up having this extraordinarily complicated relationship

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Speaker 1: with animals. On the one hand, we gradually perfected our

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Speaker 1: abilities to hunt them, becoming the supreme hunters that we

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Speaker 1: were fifty to ten thousand years ago before the development

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Speaker 1: of agriculture, the time when we conquered Europe and various

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Speaker 1: other parts of the world, and spread out from Africa, UM,

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Speaker 1: and we eventually, of course, uh you know, saw in

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Speaker 1: the in the relationship that we developed between ourselves and animals,

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Speaker 1: this this sense of awe for the wild others that

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Speaker 1: shared the planet with us, and at the same time

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Speaker 1: a recognition that we absolutely required them in order to

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Speaker 1: sustain ourselves, to sustain our communities. One of the most

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Speaker 1: compelling experiences that any human being can have, and I

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Speaker 1: encourage all of your listeners to consider doing this sometime

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Speaker 1: in their lives, is to visit the cave art sites

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Speaker 1: of Europe, particularly in France and Spain where there are

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Speaker 1: many of them, just to see what early hunters thirty

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Speaker 1: thousand years ago and forty thousand years ago actually painted

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Speaker 1: on the cave walls, these incredible images of animals that

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Speaker 1: are done in such exquisite detail, and some of these

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Speaker 1: caves were actually painted and used for these purposes for

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Speaker 1: for twenty thousand years UM. And in those expressions of

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Speaker 1: those animals and some of which are being hunted, some

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Speaker 1: of which are not being hunted, you know, we can

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Speaker 1: take almost every lesson that we need, UM with respect

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Speaker 1: to why did hunters launched the conservation movement in many

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Speaker 1: parts of the world. Why do hunters today become so

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Speaker 1: passionate about this engagement with wild creatures, and also what

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Speaker 1: are some of the values that we need to share

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Speaker 1: with the rest of the public, both in the United

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Speaker 1: States and Canada, but indeed around the world if we

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Speaker 1: are to see hunting survive in this modern era. The

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Speaker 1: the history of our of our species um is a

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Speaker 1: spectacular one, but if you reflect on it for just

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Speaker 1: a short period of time, you quickly realize that the

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Speaker 1: past remains with us on a daily basis. Almost all

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Speaker 1: the phobia's human beings have are based in our long

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Speaker 1: distant past. We're afraid of big predators, were afraid of spiders,

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Speaker 1: were afraid of snakes, were afraid of heights, we're afraid

429
00:23:52,760 --> 00:23:57,000
Speaker 1: of thunder, we're afraid of the dark um. And we

430
00:23:57,080 --> 00:23:59,439
Speaker 1: have very few modern phobia as you think we'd be

431
00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:03,119
Speaker 1: today more afraid of things like trains, planes, and automobiles,

432
00:24:03,760 --> 00:24:06,639
Speaker 1: but in fact, we still carry those ancient phobias with

433
00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:09,439
Speaker 1: us from our early past when we were developing our

434
00:24:09,480 --> 00:24:14,160
Speaker 1: hunting skills uh and before. In addition to that, we

435
00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:16,720
Speaker 1: we love many of the things that were part of

436
00:24:16,760 --> 00:24:20,720
Speaker 1: our distant hunting past. So for example, Um, we love

437
00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:23,840
Speaker 1: barbecues where there's an open fire and meat is being

438
00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:27,320
Speaker 1: roasted upon it. And you and your co hosts know

439
00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:30,760
Speaker 1: that if you have invite people to your to your

440
00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:33,840
Speaker 1: home for a dinner, if you cook that in your kitchen,

441
00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:37,680
Speaker 1: they don't stand around looking at your stove. But if

442
00:24:37,720 --> 00:24:40,359
Speaker 1: you have that, if you have a barbecue, everyone seems

443
00:24:40,359 --> 00:24:42,680
Speaker 1: to have to stand around and watch this meat being

444
00:24:42,680 --> 00:24:44,800
Speaker 1: cooked on this open flame. I mean this happens all

445
00:24:44,800 --> 00:24:47,399
Speaker 1: over the world. At the same time, if you go

446
00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:52,920
Speaker 1: to a restaurant, AH, you invariably pay more if the

447
00:24:53,040 --> 00:24:56,320
Speaker 1: lights are dim and there's candles on the table. Uh.

448
00:24:56,520 --> 00:24:58,720
Speaker 1: If you go to a steakhouse, you'll pay even more

449
00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:01,480
Speaker 1: if the if the places made of wood and there's

450
00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:04,560
Speaker 1: rock and there's exposed pits where the meat is being

451
00:25:04,760 --> 00:25:08,800
Speaker 1: being being cooked. Um. You know, people love to light

452
00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:13,320
Speaker 1: their homes with candles. They like to sleep upstairs away

453
00:25:13,359 --> 00:25:16,879
Speaker 1: from predators on the ground. And we still carry with

454
00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:20,320
Speaker 1: the so many signatures of our past, and one of

455
00:25:20,320 --> 00:25:26,200
Speaker 1: the most important signatures is this this relationship between us

456
00:25:26,280 --> 00:25:31,200
Speaker 1: and other animals that takes place during the hunt, which

457
00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:34,560
Speaker 1: is the time that we test our capacities and to

458
00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:40,280
Speaker 1: some extent. Our technologies obviously against the extraordinary abilities and

459
00:25:40,320 --> 00:25:46,080
Speaker 1: capacities of wild animals, and through that process we may

460
00:25:46,240 --> 00:25:50,080
Speaker 1: acquire meat. Of course, we may acquire hides and other benefits,

461
00:25:50,119 --> 00:25:55,119
Speaker 1: as Aboriginal people's did for ages UM, but we also

462
00:25:55,160 --> 00:25:59,640
Speaker 1: acquire if we are real hunters, we acquire this this

463
00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:06,240
Speaker 1: incredible love and respect and admiration for those wild creatures who,

464
00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:12,400
Speaker 1: let's face it, in almost every respect sense ability to scent,

465
00:26:12,520 --> 00:26:15,280
Speaker 1: the ability to see, the ability to hear, the ability

466
00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:18,360
Speaker 1: to run, the ability to jump, the ability to evade.

467
00:26:19,080 --> 00:26:22,880
Speaker 1: In almost every respect, they are superior to us. And

468
00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:27,080
Speaker 1: that is why the successful hunt means so much to

469
00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:31,640
Speaker 1: those of us who engage in this activity. And it's

470
00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:36,679
Speaker 1: also why, of course UH hunters helped launch the conservation movement,

471
00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:41,760
Speaker 1: because we desired to be able to keep this activity going.

472
00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:45,200
Speaker 1: But we also desire to keep those wild creatures with us.

473
00:26:46,280 --> 00:26:51,720
Speaker 1: And it's also why UM hunters today, particularly with all

474
00:26:51,720 --> 00:26:55,120
Speaker 1: of the technology we have developed, I have to remember

475
00:26:55,200 --> 00:27:00,320
Speaker 1: that our ultimate responsibilities are not to keep hunting us.

476
00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:04,359
Speaker 1: Our ultimate responsibilities are to keep those wild others with

477
00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:08,119
Speaker 1: us that some of us wish to hunt, and most

478
00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:11,160
Speaker 1: people fortunately wish to see and wish to realize are

479
00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:14,159
Speaker 1: still in the world with us. Yeah, so so true.

480
00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:17,800
Speaker 1: So that's a perfect segue. And I've got several things

481
00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:19,359
Speaker 1: from what you just said that I get really quick.

482
00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:23,040
Speaker 1: Do you do you know of the documentary about those

483
00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:24,960
Speaker 1: cave paintings that you mentioned a couple of minutes ago.

484
00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:27,280
Speaker 1: I watched most of it and was fascinating, But for

485
00:27:27,320 --> 00:27:30,480
Speaker 1: some reason I can't remember the name of that document

486
00:27:30,520 --> 00:27:32,120
Speaker 1: Do you happen to know of that? Have you seen

487
00:27:32,119 --> 00:27:34,760
Speaker 1: that before? Shane? Well, there have been so many of

488
00:27:34,800 --> 00:27:36,919
Speaker 1: them that have been done. I'm not sure which particular

489
00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:40,200
Speaker 1: when you're referring to, but and there's there's a plethora

490
00:27:40,320 --> 00:27:43,399
Speaker 1: of books and publications ranging all the way from you know,

491
00:27:43,640 --> 00:27:47,520
Speaker 1: more picture kind of volumes too, volumes that have gone

492
00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:50,880
Speaker 1: into a deep study of why these people went into

493
00:27:50,920 --> 00:27:53,359
Speaker 1: the caves and why they did these things because they

494
00:27:53,359 --> 00:27:56,280
Speaker 1: weren't living in these caves, you know, these were places

495
00:27:56,320 --> 00:28:00,440
Speaker 1: they went to actually practice art and probably to practice uh,

496
00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:04,640
Speaker 1: ceremonial activities. Um. So, I'm not sure which particular show

497
00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:09,080
Speaker 1: you're talking about, but the information on we call a

498
00:28:09,119 --> 00:28:13,159
Speaker 1: parietal art the cave art um is so abundant, and

499
00:28:13,280 --> 00:28:15,639
Speaker 1: anybody who wishes to google it will see some of

500
00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:18,479
Speaker 1: these amazing images. And one of the things I'd advise

501
00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:21,720
Speaker 1: your listeners to do when they do look at some

502
00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:26,800
Speaker 1: of that imagery is to notice that the animals are

503
00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:29,760
Speaker 1: the theme. There are no sunsets, there are no trees,

504
00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:33,879
Speaker 1: there are no landscapes. The animals are shown in full

505
00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:40,320
Speaker 1: absolute beauty and detail using very primitive pigments and implements

506
00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:43,880
Speaker 1: that just astound us that they could have painted these things.

507
00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:47,640
Speaker 1: But the human beings, the human beings in in any

508
00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:51,360
Speaker 1: of those paintings are just little stick figures like a

509
00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:55,760
Speaker 1: child would draw. The entire emphasis of the mind, of

510
00:28:55,560 --> 00:28:58,760
Speaker 1: the heart, and spirit and soul of these these these

511
00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:03,600
Speaker 1: ancient artists, or on the animals themselves, that's what they

512
00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:07,080
Speaker 1: wish to depict them. They were the they were the

513
00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:11,400
Speaker 1: important ones, not us. Yeah, that's a great point, um.

514
00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:15,160
Speaker 1: And they're they're beautiful depictions too. I remember seeing in

515
00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:16,840
Speaker 1: that film and I just looked it up. It's The

516
00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:20,960
Speaker 1: Cave of Forgotten Dreams by Werner Herzog was was the

517
00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:23,400
Speaker 1: film I had seen, and that showed just a very

518
00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:26,800
Speaker 1: interesting look at those cave paintings, like you said, which

519
00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:31,240
Speaker 1: which really does show that this focus and priority on

520
00:29:31,320 --> 00:29:33,600
Speaker 1: the wildlife and the animals and how it impacted us

521
00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:36,600
Speaker 1: as humans, that's been there for thousands and thousands of years.

522
00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:40,000
Speaker 1: It's not something that just recently has come about. So

523
00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:45,120
Speaker 1: interesting interesting to see that. Absolutely, it's incredible stuff. That's

524
00:29:45,120 --> 00:29:50,040
Speaker 1: a real quick question about how hunting, and this question

525
00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:52,800
Speaker 1: sparked from two different things. Part of it is playing

526
00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:56,520
Speaker 1: Devil's Advocate and the other part is um today. I

527
00:29:56,880 --> 00:29:58,880
Speaker 1: when Mark told me you were going to be the guest,

528
00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:00,720
Speaker 1: I went back and listened to a whole bunch of

529
00:30:00,760 --> 00:30:04,040
Speaker 1: other content that you have out there, and you mentioned

530
00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:12,120
Speaker 1: that hunting helped evolve the human brain, and I can

531
00:30:12,160 --> 00:30:14,640
Speaker 1: you explain that just a little bit, and then after that,

532
00:30:14,760 --> 00:30:21,920
Speaker 1: maybe explain why humans may be domesticated animals and why

533
00:30:23,320 --> 00:30:27,000
Speaker 1: uh uh an animal like ourselves that can domesticate other

534
00:30:27,080 --> 00:30:31,320
Speaker 1: animals for for nutrients needs to hunt. And that's where

535
00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:35,440
Speaker 1: the Devil's Devil's Advocate kind of comes in. Well, first

536
00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:38,840
Speaker 1: of all, I mean, I think the real change that

537
00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:43,560
Speaker 1: took place in human beings, um, once we know became bipedal,

538
00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:46,280
Speaker 1: once we could walk upright, once we advanced out into

539
00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:50,200
Speaker 1: the open country, and once we started to find um

540
00:30:50,840 --> 00:30:54,080
Speaker 1: young animals that were easy to subdue and to kill.

541
00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:57,840
Speaker 1: Once we once we moved into a diet that was

542
00:30:57,960 --> 00:31:02,000
Speaker 1: very high in animal protein, everything expanded for us our

543
00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:07,640
Speaker 1: body size are musculature, but particularly our brain size. And

544
00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:10,280
Speaker 1: when you increase the size and the complexity of the

545
00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:12,800
Speaker 1: brain and you're able to feed it on this incredibly

546
00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:18,120
Speaker 1: nutritious food, uh, this animal protein and fat, what you do,

547
00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:20,920
Speaker 1: of course is expand all of those capacities that human

548
00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:25,000
Speaker 1: beings have to think ahead, to develop language, to develop technologies,

549
00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:30,640
Speaker 1: and so on. So this ability to to subdue animals,

550
00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:34,080
Speaker 1: to harvest wild animals really was a sort of like

551
00:31:34,120 --> 00:31:37,719
Speaker 1: a transmission. You know, it kept pushing us forward. The

552
00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:40,280
Speaker 1: more we could do it, the better we became at it,

553
00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:44,479
Speaker 1: the more able we were to to practice it and

554
00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:50,000
Speaker 1: feed ourselves. Then the more sophisticated our societies became. Obviously,

555
00:31:50,120 --> 00:31:54,920
Speaker 1: over a long period of time, UM the period when

556
00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:59,360
Speaker 1: we suddenly began to invest in agriculture, you know, it

557
00:31:59,480 --> 00:32:02,680
Speaker 1: started the ten thousand years ago when the tiger's euphrate

558
00:32:02,840 --> 00:32:05,320
Speaker 1: systems and so on, and eventually spread around the world.

559
00:32:05,800 --> 00:32:10,680
Speaker 1: This in fact marked um a very major change in

560
00:32:10,720 --> 00:32:14,239
Speaker 1: the Holy ecology of human beings, and not all of it,

561
00:32:14,280 --> 00:32:18,000
Speaker 1: by any means, was to our betterment. I mean, under

562
00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:21,560
Speaker 1: those circumstances, we could obviously live in larger groups. We

563
00:32:21,640 --> 00:32:23,680
Speaker 1: didn't rely on having to go out and hunt and

564
00:32:23,720 --> 00:32:26,000
Speaker 1: gather in the same way because we were growing our

565
00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:30,080
Speaker 1: food and domesticating species. But we began to live in in,

566
00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:33,520
Speaker 1: as I said, larger groups. The the issue of you know,

567
00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:38,880
Speaker 1: internal violence and caste systems, the rise of disease, all

568
00:32:38,920 --> 00:32:42,680
Speaker 1: of these things were part of the complicated world we

569
00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:45,440
Speaker 1: entered when we sort of turned our backs, so to speak,

570
00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:50,480
Speaker 1: on the hunting as our absolute, primary and only means

571
00:32:50,600 --> 00:32:55,320
Speaker 1: of of you know, keeping ourselves alive. Obviously this was

572
00:32:55,360 --> 00:32:58,320
Speaker 1: different in different parts of the world, but nevertheless that

573
00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:02,120
Speaker 1: was the broad pattern of human his tree domesticating animals.

574
00:33:02,160 --> 00:33:06,200
Speaker 1: There's absolutely no question that domesticated animals now form an

575
00:33:06,320 --> 00:33:11,040
Speaker 1: enormous percentage of the diet of human beings around the world. However,

576
00:33:11,080 --> 00:33:13,280
Speaker 1: it's a great mistake for people to think that there

577
00:33:13,280 --> 00:33:16,720
Speaker 1: still are not hundreds of millions of people around the

578
00:33:16,760 --> 00:33:20,360
Speaker 1: world who rely directly on wild protein for their survival.

579
00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:23,040
Speaker 1: You know, this is a this is a kind of

580
00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:25,720
Speaker 1: an arrogant assumption on the part of some of us

581
00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:28,920
Speaker 1: who live in highly developed countries around the world where

582
00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:30,720
Speaker 1: we have a great deal of wealth and so on.

583
00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:34,040
Speaker 1: But if you think about all world fisheries as hunts,

584
00:33:34,040 --> 00:33:37,080
Speaker 1: which they are, ye, they are the active pursuit of

585
00:33:37,160 --> 00:33:40,440
Speaker 1: living creatures that we capture and kill, then we're talking

586
00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:44,520
Speaker 1: somewhere around a couple of billion people who rely directly

587
00:33:44,600 --> 00:33:48,320
Speaker 1: on those hunts, commercial hunts, but they are hunts nevertheless.

588
00:33:49,040 --> 00:33:51,720
Speaker 1: And if you add the bush meat trade and the

589
00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:55,000
Speaker 1: bush meat activity of people living in many African countries,

590
00:33:55,040 --> 00:33:58,320
Speaker 1: for example, and in parts of Asia, then there's hundreds

591
00:33:58,320 --> 00:34:02,120
Speaker 1: of millions more people who rely directly on the harvest

592
00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:06,080
Speaker 1: of wild protein. They're not all living behindy means on

593
00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:10,920
Speaker 1: domestic animals, but even if they were, um, you know,

594
00:34:11,320 --> 00:34:15,160
Speaker 1: the raising of huge numbers of domestic animals obviously requires

595
00:34:15,200 --> 00:34:20,080
Speaker 1: that we take wildlife land out of production. Uh. In addition,

596
00:34:20,120 --> 00:34:22,399
Speaker 1: we all know that if we have to raise large

597
00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:26,800
Speaker 1: numbers of domestic animals in in tight circumstances with many

598
00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:30,040
Speaker 1: of them, then we also have to protect them artificially

599
00:34:30,120 --> 00:34:33,440
Speaker 1: from parasites and disease. You know, we have to give

600
00:34:33,480 --> 00:34:37,759
Speaker 1: them various drugs and and things of this nature to

601
00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:40,680
Speaker 1: to keep them alive and to keep them healthy, and

602
00:34:40,800 --> 00:34:44,200
Speaker 1: back to some extent, of course, gets passed on to

603
00:34:44,560 --> 00:34:46,480
Speaker 1: the people who consume it. We know that this is

604
00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:50,120
Speaker 1: a major concern for the world. How much does our desire,

605
00:34:50,520 --> 00:34:53,360
Speaker 1: you know, our food actually cause some of the diseases

606
00:34:53,400 --> 00:34:57,319
Speaker 1: that we have in this world today. So for us

607
00:34:57,360 --> 00:34:59,680
Speaker 1: to first of all make the assumption that hunting is

608
00:34:59,719 --> 00:35:03,839
Speaker 1: some sort of you know, frivolous little activity that you know,

609
00:35:03,880 --> 00:35:06,520
Speaker 1: people don't need to engage in anymore, well, I would

610
00:35:06,560 --> 00:35:10,640
Speaker 1: remind your listeners and anybody else in society that billions

611
00:35:10,640 --> 00:35:13,640
Speaker 1: of people are still relying on the pursuit of wild

612
00:35:13,640 --> 00:35:16,000
Speaker 1: creatures and the killing of them and the consuming of

613
00:35:16,080 --> 00:35:18,840
Speaker 1: them on this planet. And if tomorrow we were to

614
00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:23,239
Speaker 1: end it, we would have a cataclysm of starvation in

615
00:35:23,320 --> 00:35:27,120
Speaker 1: this world. Now, to come to the recreational hunter and

616
00:35:27,120 --> 00:35:30,280
Speaker 1: the recreational angler, let's say in a in a developed

617
00:35:30,320 --> 00:35:33,200
Speaker 1: circular you know, developed as a poor word, but you know,

618
00:35:33,239 --> 00:35:35,480
Speaker 1: in wealthy nations, if we could put it that way,

619
00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:38,839
Speaker 1: such as the United States and Canada. Let's us think

620
00:35:38,880 --> 00:35:44,880
Speaker 1: about that. So we have between forty and fifty million

621
00:35:45,480 --> 00:35:50,120
Speaker 1: forty and fifty million people in our two countries who

622
00:35:50,160 --> 00:35:54,600
Speaker 1: may in a given year uh engage in recreational hunting

623
00:35:54,640 --> 00:35:57,800
Speaker 1: and angling. This is no side show, even in our cultures.

624
00:35:58,280 --> 00:36:02,440
Speaker 1: Forty million people, that's a lot of people. Secondly, we

625
00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:06,680
Speaker 1: are harvesting, you know, hundreds of species if you include

626
00:36:06,680 --> 00:36:10,080
Speaker 1: the varieties of fish that we that we harvest, we

627
00:36:10,120 --> 00:36:14,239
Speaker 1: are therefore harvesting hundreds of millions of tons, not a

628
00:36:14,280 --> 00:36:18,759
Speaker 1: small amount, just an enormous amount of wild protein that

629
00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:22,080
Speaker 1: we are taking from the forests of the plains, the

630
00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:26,440
Speaker 1: lands of the rivers, and the coastal areas of Canada

631
00:36:26,480 --> 00:36:30,400
Speaker 1: and the United States. All of that food is totally organic.

632
00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:34,560
Speaker 1: All of that food is coming from wild places that

633
00:36:34,719 --> 00:36:38,880
Speaker 1: have enormous benefits to people, from water quality issues to

634
00:36:39,520 --> 00:36:44,320
Speaker 1: biodiversity generally, to opportunities to recreate, to see wildlife, to

635
00:36:44,560 --> 00:36:48,400
Speaker 1: keep ecosystems alive. And we harvest all of that food

636
00:36:49,239 --> 00:36:55,200
Speaker 1: with absolutely no environmental impact none. So we are capable

637
00:36:55,880 --> 00:36:59,640
Speaker 1: of still this day and age, through the activities of

638
00:36:59,680 --> 00:37:03,520
Speaker 1: record rational hunting and angling, able to procure for ourselves

639
00:37:03,719 --> 00:37:08,080
Speaker 1: and our families and our friends, the highest quality animal

640
00:37:08,120 --> 00:37:11,960
Speaker 1: protein that is available on this planet. And we can

641
00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:14,600
Speaker 1: do it in a way that is environmentally friendly. Now,

642
00:37:14,600 --> 00:37:16,759
Speaker 1: I think almost any government in the world would like

643
00:37:16,840 --> 00:37:20,000
Speaker 1: to have that as a as a policy of theirs,

644
00:37:20,560 --> 00:37:23,560
Speaker 1: and I think most societies would agree that if we

645
00:37:23,640 --> 00:37:28,360
Speaker 1: have a choice between doing that or closing down all

646
00:37:28,480 --> 00:37:32,920
Speaker 1: recreational hunting and angling and denying people this this, this

647
00:37:33,040 --> 00:37:36,160
Speaker 1: wonderful legacy of their citizenship to be able to harvest

648
00:37:36,200 --> 00:37:39,600
Speaker 1: these wild creatures and turn us all onto the domestic

649
00:37:39,680 --> 00:37:42,520
Speaker 1: meat fronts, then we had best be prepared to see

650
00:37:42,520 --> 00:37:47,520
Speaker 1: a massive loss of further wildlife lands and a further

651
00:37:47,640 --> 00:37:51,440
Speaker 1: imposition of foods that for many people, and a growing

652
00:37:51,520 --> 00:37:54,680
Speaker 1: number of people in society, they are concerned about. The

653
00:37:54,760 --> 00:37:58,240
Speaker 1: local ore movement, the Neanderthal diet, the hundred mild diet,

654
00:37:58,280 --> 00:38:02,279
Speaker 1: the organic food movement. These are real phenomenons in society.

655
00:38:02,520 --> 00:38:05,680
Speaker 1: And the recreational hunter and angler has been at it forever.

656
00:38:06,440 --> 00:38:09,439
Speaker 1: It's not new to us. This is what we've always done.

657
00:38:10,600 --> 00:38:15,480
Speaker 1: And so you know, the the the the idea that

658
00:38:15,480 --> 00:38:18,799
Speaker 1: that hunting, first of all, has been unimportant in the

659
00:38:18,840 --> 00:38:24,000
Speaker 1: past is that's just undermined by so much anthropological and

660
00:38:24,160 --> 00:38:28,680
Speaker 1: archaeological evidence. The the idea that it is frivolous, and

661
00:38:28,680 --> 00:38:32,160
Speaker 1: and and and and should be done away within modern time,

662
00:38:32,520 --> 00:38:34,920
Speaker 1: flies in the face of the desire of people to

663
00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:41,000
Speaker 1: find food production mechanisms that keep wildlife and landscapes healthy

664
00:38:41,120 --> 00:38:45,040
Speaker 1: while at the same time allowing human beings to acquire

665
00:38:45,080 --> 00:38:49,920
Speaker 1: the healthiest possible food. So, you know, this is a

666
00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:53,560
Speaker 1: this has all been distorted into some kind of idea

667
00:38:53,680 --> 00:38:56,359
Speaker 1: that you know, hunting and angling are cruel and they

668
00:38:56,400 --> 00:38:59,960
Speaker 1: are frivolous, and they there's only a small percentage of

669
00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:03,760
Speaker 1: people who engage in the activities. Well, there is only

670
00:39:03,800 --> 00:39:07,160
Speaker 1: a relatively small percentage of people who actually engage in

671
00:39:07,239 --> 00:39:10,759
Speaker 1: hunting and angling, let's say twelve to four percent of

672
00:39:10,840 --> 00:39:14,279
Speaker 1: the population of Canada and the United States. But that's

673
00:39:14,320 --> 00:39:17,399
Speaker 1: twelve or fourteen percent of our citizenry who have a right,

674
00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:21,719
Speaker 1: a legal right to do it in a pluralistic democracy

675
00:39:21,800 --> 00:39:24,040
Speaker 1: where people have the right to do things as long

676
00:39:24,080 --> 00:39:27,160
Speaker 1: as they do not interfere with the opportunities and rights

677
00:39:27,160 --> 00:39:31,360
Speaker 1: of others. But we also have to remember that this food,

678
00:39:31,400 --> 00:39:34,560
Speaker 1: that is that this massive amount of food which competes

679
00:39:34,600 --> 00:39:37,800
Speaker 1: with agriculture, this is this is not a small amount.

680
00:39:37,840 --> 00:39:42,040
Speaker 1: This is a massive amount of food that competes with agriculture.

681
00:39:42,400 --> 00:39:47,040
Speaker 1: That food is shared in a way that no other

682
00:39:47,200 --> 00:39:51,280
Speaker 1: form of food is ever shared. Now, you're a hunter

683
00:39:51,920 --> 00:39:54,040
Speaker 1: and your co host is a hunter, and many of

684
00:39:54,040 --> 00:39:56,680
Speaker 1: the people listening to the show hunters, so you know

685
00:39:56,760 --> 00:39:58,600
Speaker 1: that one of the very first things you do when

686
00:39:58,640 --> 00:40:00,920
Speaker 1: we take a pheasant, or we take an elk, or

687
00:40:00,960 --> 00:40:02,919
Speaker 1: we take a carriboo or a moose, or a sea

688
00:40:02,960 --> 00:40:05,640
Speaker 1: duck or a sea bird, or or a bass or

689
00:40:05,680 --> 00:40:09,400
Speaker 1: a trout or whatever it might be, we set about

690
00:40:09,400 --> 00:40:14,080
Speaker 1: sharing that food with our friends, our family first, and

691
00:40:14,200 --> 00:40:18,880
Speaker 1: with our friends. It is likely that this massive harvest

692
00:40:18,920 --> 00:40:21,880
Speaker 1: of fish and wildlife that occurs in Canada in the

693
00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:25,880
Speaker 1: United States is shared with maybe one inten citizens in

694
00:40:25,920 --> 00:40:30,719
Speaker 1: our countries. There is no other food production system in

695
00:40:30,760 --> 00:40:33,239
Speaker 1: the world that can come even close to that. We

696
00:40:33,360 --> 00:40:36,040
Speaker 1: just I mean, there are studies in individual states that

697
00:40:36,320 --> 00:40:40,440
Speaker 1: clearly verified that this is true. And the connection between

698
00:40:40,480 --> 00:40:44,200
Speaker 1: the present and the past is interesting, for we always

699
00:40:44,200 --> 00:40:47,080
Speaker 1: shared the kill. First of all, it took many of

700
00:40:47,160 --> 00:40:50,960
Speaker 1: us in many hunting circumstances to kill the big animals,

701
00:40:51,120 --> 00:40:54,320
Speaker 1: and only by trusting one another and becoming superb hunters

702
00:40:54,360 --> 00:40:57,279
Speaker 1: could we could we kill the big animals. And of course,

703
00:40:57,280 --> 00:40:59,640
Speaker 1: when we kill the big animals, we shared that food

704
00:41:00,080 --> 00:41:02,480
Speaker 1: with everyone in our village or our tribe, or our

705
00:41:02,520 --> 00:41:07,040
Speaker 1: community that has not that light has not gone out

706
00:41:07,400 --> 00:41:11,560
Speaker 1: in the hunting and angling communities today. If you would

707
00:41:11,600 --> 00:41:16,040
Speaker 1: no more think of going to the grocery store and

708
00:41:16,200 --> 00:41:19,560
Speaker 1: buying a roast of beef and taking it up to

709
00:41:19,600 --> 00:41:23,919
Speaker 1: your neighbor or your friend, knocking on their door and say, here,

710
00:41:24,680 --> 00:41:27,400
Speaker 1: I have bought you a roast of beef, then you

711
00:41:27,440 --> 00:41:29,319
Speaker 1: would fly in the air. And if you did it,

712
00:41:30,040 --> 00:41:32,359
Speaker 1: your friend or neighbor or family member would look at

713
00:41:32,400 --> 00:41:35,240
Speaker 1: you and say, well, I think you've lost your mind.

714
00:41:37,000 --> 00:41:39,360
Speaker 1: But of course, as soon as you kill a deer,

715
00:41:40,280 --> 00:41:44,120
Speaker 1: a turkey, and elk, it doesn't matter. And it's not

716
00:41:44,200 --> 00:41:46,359
Speaker 1: just true where you live, it is true where I live.

717
00:41:46,440 --> 00:41:49,840
Speaker 1: It is true everywhere the hunter and angler lives in

718
00:41:49,960 --> 00:41:53,279
Speaker 1: every culture in the world. One of the very first things,

719
00:41:53,280 --> 00:41:57,400
Speaker 1: it's almost like we're programmed to give it away, and

720
00:41:57,440 --> 00:42:01,240
Speaker 1: the result of that is that we share this wild

721
00:42:01,320 --> 00:42:06,080
Speaker 1: harvest with so many people, and they too are the

722
00:42:06,080 --> 00:42:10,920
Speaker 1: benefits of this wild harvest. Now in our countries, in

723
00:42:11,000 --> 00:42:14,400
Speaker 1: Canada and the United States, it is possible for every

724
00:42:14,440 --> 00:42:18,440
Speaker 1: single citizen to be engaged in this activity. You know,

725
00:42:18,480 --> 00:42:21,080
Speaker 1: if they learn how to hunt, and they go through

726
00:42:21,120 --> 00:42:23,880
Speaker 1: the courses and you are legal, and so on and

727
00:42:23,920 --> 00:42:29,040
Speaker 1: so forth. This is an absolutely fantastic thing because the

728
00:42:29,120 --> 00:42:35,880
Speaker 1: consumption of meat worldwide is increasing, not decreasing, It is increasing.

729
00:42:36,719 --> 00:42:40,800
Speaker 1: Every country that sees its standard of living rise also

730
00:42:40,880 --> 00:42:44,600
Speaker 1: sees an increase in the consumption of meat. Now, we

731
00:42:44,680 --> 00:42:48,600
Speaker 1: can provide that meat through domestic livestock, and undoubtedly we

732
00:42:48,719 --> 00:42:51,200
Speaker 1: have to have domestic livestock. Clearly we have so many

733
00:42:51,239 --> 00:42:53,440
Speaker 1: people in the world that must be that must be

734
00:42:53,560 --> 00:42:57,399
Speaker 1: part of how we feed ourselves. Or we can have

735
00:42:57,640 --> 00:43:01,959
Speaker 1: an alternative for some people, which is to take these

736
00:43:02,000 --> 00:43:08,239
Speaker 1: wild animals, to harvest them, and to consume that far

737
00:43:08,360 --> 00:43:11,200
Speaker 1: healthi or food. We know this for a fact, lower

738
00:43:11,239 --> 00:43:14,960
Speaker 1: in facts, higher in minerals, higher invitaments, higher in protein.

739
00:43:15,480 --> 00:43:19,040
Speaker 1: We can consume that ourselves and share it with others.

740
00:43:20,000 --> 00:43:23,879
Speaker 1: This is a choice we have in our society, and

741
00:43:24,320 --> 00:43:27,960
Speaker 1: by doing so, this same group of people, the hunters

742
00:43:27,960 --> 00:43:32,720
Speaker 1: and anglers lobby for the protection of wild land, spend

743
00:43:33,000 --> 00:43:36,920
Speaker 1: enormous amounts of money acquiring wild land and protecting it,

744
00:43:37,080 --> 00:43:41,200
Speaker 1: funding research projects, helping to support our state and provincial

745
00:43:41,239 --> 00:43:44,960
Speaker 1: agencies in everything they do. In terms of helping wildlife,

746
00:43:45,000 --> 00:43:49,400
Speaker 1: from endangered species to superabundant species, to game species to

747
00:43:49,480 --> 00:43:53,680
Speaker 1: non game species. We do all of that in addition,

748
00:43:54,640 --> 00:43:58,240
Speaker 1: not alone. Lots of people help with conservation, but hunters

749
00:43:58,239 --> 00:44:01,360
Speaker 1: and anglers for over a century now in Canada and

750
00:44:01,400 --> 00:44:04,279
Speaker 1: the United States have been at the forefront of the

751
00:44:04,320 --> 00:44:09,120
Speaker 1: conservation movement. The problem is that most people don't think

752
00:44:09,160 --> 00:44:12,840
Speaker 1: about these things in this holistic way. We have the

753
00:44:12,880 --> 00:44:18,160
Speaker 1: capacity in Canada and the United States still to provide

754
00:44:18,280 --> 00:44:23,960
Speaker 1: even more wild food to the citizens of our two countries.

755
00:44:25,080 --> 00:44:30,080
Speaker 1: And if we managed wildlife properly, and if we gave

756
00:44:30,120 --> 00:44:33,560
Speaker 1: the right value to our lands as we should and

757
00:44:33,600 --> 00:44:35,920
Speaker 1: our waters and protected them in the way we should,

758
00:44:36,560 --> 00:44:41,480
Speaker 1: we could preproducing more and more wild food for our people.

759
00:44:42,640 --> 00:44:46,399
Speaker 1: The entire world is concerned about food security. The entire

760
00:44:46,480 --> 00:44:49,440
Speaker 1: world is consumed about concerned about the quality of the

761
00:44:49,440 --> 00:44:53,719
Speaker 1: food they eat. We have one of the most brilliant

762
00:44:53,719 --> 00:44:58,919
Speaker 1: solutions available. Let us keep the land and the water

763
00:44:59,000 --> 00:45:02,800
Speaker 1: is productive for every one hunter and non hunter alike.

764
00:45:03,760 --> 00:45:06,480
Speaker 1: Let us allow the citizens who wish to to go

765
00:45:06,680 --> 00:45:12,400
Speaker 1: and harvest their own food, their berries, their mushrooms, their firewood,

766
00:45:12,480 --> 00:45:16,359
Speaker 1: and yes, their wild protein and from fish and from

767
00:45:16,400 --> 00:45:19,880
Speaker 1: birds and mammals, and then let them come back and

768
00:45:20,160 --> 00:45:26,280
Speaker 1: say to their governments, please keep those places safe, Please

769
00:45:26,640 --> 00:45:30,920
Speaker 1: don't destroy them, don't destroy the wildlife is there not

770
00:45:31,120 --> 00:45:33,360
Speaker 1: just for me as a hunter, but for all the

771
00:45:33,400 --> 00:45:36,560
Speaker 1: people I share my wild harvest with, and for all

772
00:45:36,560 --> 00:45:39,080
Speaker 1: the people who simply wish to go and view wildlife

773
00:45:39,120 --> 00:45:42,480
Speaker 1: or to rectorate in those areas. But we are part

774
00:45:42,560 --> 00:45:46,120
Speaker 1: of a community. The hunter and angler is of people

775
00:45:46,120 --> 00:45:50,759
Speaker 1: who care about wildlife, and we are the community that

776
00:45:50,840 --> 00:45:56,600
Speaker 1: manages to harvest wildlife by our skills, the same skills

777
00:45:56,600 --> 00:46:00,799
Speaker 1: that we had five thousand years ago, ten thousand years ago,

778
00:46:01,000 --> 00:46:05,240
Speaker 1: twenty thousand years ago, fifty thousand years ago, and far

779
00:46:05,280 --> 00:46:09,200
Speaker 1: far back earlier than that. And what we have to

780
00:46:09,239 --> 00:46:12,560
Speaker 1: begin to explain to people is that those animals that

781
00:46:12,680 --> 00:46:19,360
Speaker 1: die that are taken by the hunter, and the fish

782
00:46:19,360 --> 00:46:23,160
Speaker 1: that are taken by the angler, those animals have lived

783
00:46:23,239 --> 00:46:26,839
Speaker 1: in their wild environments as they should live for their

784
00:46:27,000 --> 00:46:31,120
Speaker 1: entire existence, up until the time they are killed, and

785
00:46:31,200 --> 00:46:35,400
Speaker 1: hopefully they die quickly and with as little pain as possible.

786
00:46:35,520 --> 00:46:40,000
Speaker 1: That's our responsibility to make sure that happens. Comparing their

787
00:46:40,040 --> 00:46:43,960
Speaker 1: lives with the lives of many, not all, but with

788
00:46:44,040 --> 00:46:50,799
Speaker 1: many domesticated animals, there is no comparison. I I am

789
00:46:50,840 --> 00:46:53,279
Speaker 1: in love with animals. I have been since I have

790
00:46:53,360 --> 00:46:56,160
Speaker 1: been a small boy. I will be in love with

791
00:46:56,280 --> 00:46:59,040
Speaker 1: them till the day I die. And if I have

792
00:46:59,120 --> 00:47:04,279
Speaker 1: a choice in what meat I will eat, I will

793
00:47:04,360 --> 00:47:07,239
Speaker 1: choose to take the animal that has lived its life

794
00:47:07,280 --> 00:47:10,719
Speaker 1: in freedom and beauty and in the way it was

795
00:47:10,880 --> 00:47:15,919
Speaker 1: made to live over the food that comes from one

796
00:47:16,320 --> 00:47:20,879
Speaker 1: that has by necessity been kept in captivity, has been

797
00:47:20,920 --> 00:47:26,520
Speaker 1: bred to change it to be docile and easy to handle,

798
00:47:27,160 --> 00:47:31,520
Speaker 1: and that often live in circumstances that I guarantee you

799
00:47:33,440 --> 00:47:39,000
Speaker 1: nine of the people of the American public would certainly

800
00:47:39,000 --> 00:47:48,000
Speaker 1: not allow their dog or their cats to live in Yeah.

801
00:47:47,520 --> 00:47:51,440
Speaker 1: I want to first say to all of that amen,

802
00:47:52,719 --> 00:47:55,960
Speaker 1: first and foremost, and and secondly that this case you

803
00:47:56,080 --> 00:47:58,880
Speaker 1: just made about the importance and the imperative of the

804
00:47:58,920 --> 00:48:03,920
Speaker 1: wild harvest we hunters and anglers produce and share, I

805
00:48:04,000 --> 00:48:06,239
Speaker 1: know that you are making a case for that at

806
00:48:06,239 --> 00:48:09,359
Speaker 1: a larger scale through something that the study I believe

807
00:48:09,360 --> 00:48:11,719
Speaker 1: they're referring to as the wild Harvest Initiative. So now

808
00:48:11,760 --> 00:48:13,360
Speaker 1: that we're on this topic, can you just share this

809
00:48:13,920 --> 00:48:15,960
Speaker 1: um you know, in relation to what you just spoke about.

810
00:48:16,400 --> 00:48:18,759
Speaker 1: What is the wild Harvest trying to do in and

811
00:48:18,800 --> 00:48:20,440
Speaker 1: can you share with us an update on the stats

812
00:48:20,440 --> 00:48:22,399
Speaker 1: of that. I know it was announced earlier this year.

813
00:48:22,560 --> 00:48:26,839
Speaker 1: Where do things stand today, Well, it is progressing. The

814
00:48:26,880 --> 00:48:30,560
Speaker 1: idea behind the wild harvest never been done before, and

815
00:48:30,600 --> 00:48:32,560
Speaker 1: the largest study of its kind of ever undertaken in

816
00:48:32,600 --> 00:48:36,360
Speaker 1: the world. We're very fortunate in Canada and the United

817
00:48:36,400 --> 00:48:41,920
Speaker 1: States that we have quite sophisticated conservation process where the

818
00:48:42,000 --> 00:48:45,759
Speaker 1: harvest of fish and wildlife is tracked, you know, by

819
00:48:45,880 --> 00:48:51,200
Speaker 1: our regulatory agencies, by our fish and wildlife agencies, so

820
00:48:51,280 --> 00:48:53,239
Speaker 1: we have the data on, you know, the number of

821
00:48:53,360 --> 00:48:57,719
Speaker 1: hunters and the number of animals that are harvested. My intention,

822
00:48:58,040 --> 00:49:01,560
Speaker 1: and this is now underway, is to build the large

823
00:49:01,600 --> 00:49:05,560
Speaker 1: coalition of interests people who hunt, people who are interested

824
00:49:05,600 --> 00:49:08,840
Speaker 1: in organic food, people are interested in recreation, et cetera,

825
00:49:10,280 --> 00:49:13,359
Speaker 1: to help fund and carry on a study that will

826
00:49:13,400 --> 00:49:17,080
Speaker 1: compile all of that information, all of the wild animal

827
00:49:17,120 --> 00:49:21,680
Speaker 1: harvest information from every state and province and territory in

828
00:49:21,800 --> 00:49:26,200
Speaker 1: Canada and the United States. I am then going to

829
00:49:26,239 --> 00:49:29,160
Speaker 1: work with people who have expertise that I do not

830
00:49:29,560 --> 00:49:34,800
Speaker 1: in the the economics sphere, to come up with a

831
00:49:34,800 --> 00:49:42,680
Speaker 1: a real, defendable, practical objective evaluation of the financial value

832
00:49:42,719 --> 00:49:45,200
Speaker 1: of the of the of the of the money worth,

833
00:49:45,320 --> 00:49:49,800
Speaker 1: if you will, of those hundreds of millions of tons

834
00:49:49,880 --> 00:49:53,960
Speaker 1: of of meat that are harvested by these forty to

835
00:49:54,080 --> 00:49:58,600
Speaker 1: fifty million people who are harvesting wildlife and fish each

836
00:49:58,680 --> 00:50:04,120
Speaker 1: year um and relate that, obviously to the marketplace to

837
00:50:04,239 --> 00:50:07,120
Speaker 1: see come up with realistic figures for this, which has

838
00:50:07,160 --> 00:50:12,799
Speaker 1: never been done. Then to assess just how much of

839
00:50:12,800 --> 00:50:16,000
Speaker 1: a contribution is all of this wild protein making to

840
00:50:16,200 --> 00:50:23,040
Speaker 1: the diet of Canadians and Americans. Then to determine what

841
00:50:23,080 --> 00:50:27,720
Speaker 1: I'm calling the sharing index, just how many people, beyond

842
00:50:27,920 --> 00:50:31,759
Speaker 1: the people who harvest the fish and wildlife, how many

843
00:50:31,800 --> 00:50:35,080
Speaker 1: people actually share in the consumption of that meat so

844
00:50:35,160 --> 00:50:39,399
Speaker 1: we can see, you know, how this ripples through our communities.

845
00:50:40,280 --> 00:50:45,120
Speaker 1: And then to assess how we would replace that meat.

846
00:50:45,960 --> 00:50:49,320
Speaker 1: For example, we are consuming all of this wild protein,

847
00:50:50,000 --> 00:50:55,480
Speaker 1: So what would happen if tomorrow, for any reason, we stopped, um,

848
00:50:55,520 --> 00:51:00,200
Speaker 1: what would it cause society to actually replace that out

849
00:51:00,239 --> 00:51:05,000
Speaker 1: of food through industrial agriculture, either through crop production or

850
00:51:05,080 --> 00:51:08,759
Speaker 1: particularly through domestic livestock production. I want to point out

851
00:51:08,840 --> 00:51:11,440
Speaker 1: that this is not an attempt to say domestic livestock

852
00:51:11,480 --> 00:51:13,880
Speaker 1: production needs to be done away with. We need domestic

853
00:51:13,960 --> 00:51:16,320
Speaker 1: livestock production, and some of it has done quite well.

854
00:51:17,040 --> 00:51:20,440
Speaker 1: But nevertheless, if we had to replace this massive amount

855
00:51:20,480 --> 00:51:26,000
Speaker 1: of food, there will be inevitable ecological costs. It will

856
00:51:26,040 --> 00:51:29,560
Speaker 1: cost money, It will cost land that will have to

857
00:51:29,600 --> 00:51:36,160
Speaker 1: be turned over from wildlife production to domestic or agricultural production.

858
00:51:36,760 --> 00:51:39,640
Speaker 1: It will have the input costs of the fertilizers, of

859
00:51:39,640 --> 00:51:43,439
Speaker 1: the pesticides, of the insecticides, of the gasoline. It will

860
00:51:43,480 --> 00:51:46,160
Speaker 1: have the carbon footprint that comes with any kind of

861
00:51:46,200 --> 00:51:51,000
Speaker 1: activity of this kind. And of course it will destroy

862
00:51:51,160 --> 00:51:55,600
Speaker 1: by virtue of taking habitat many many wildlife species, not

863
00:51:55,719 --> 00:51:59,280
Speaker 1: just the ones that that we harvest. It will unravel

864
00:52:00,040 --> 00:52:02,600
Speaker 1: the integrity of ecosystems if we have to take more

865
00:52:02,719 --> 00:52:06,719
Speaker 1: and more and more land simply to feed ourselves. At

866
00:52:06,760 --> 00:52:09,359
Speaker 1: the same time, what that will do is that will

867
00:52:09,400 --> 00:52:14,239
Speaker 1: take away this great force for conservation, the political lobbying,

868
00:52:14,400 --> 00:52:19,200
Speaker 1: the volunteerism, the financial support that comes from the hunting

869
00:52:19,239 --> 00:52:24,240
Speaker 1: community that currently in the United States of America provides

870
00:52:24,320 --> 00:52:31,160
Speaker 1: about se approximately of the financial resources used by state

871
00:52:31,200 --> 00:52:37,480
Speaker 1: agencies for all their programs. So my uh, this wild

872
00:52:37,480 --> 00:52:42,520
Speaker 1: Harvest initiative, my my intention is to use this evidence

873
00:52:43,440 --> 00:52:47,839
Speaker 1: to show the broader public, some of whom are very

874
00:52:47,840 --> 00:52:51,439
Speaker 1: opposed to hunting, many of whom are trying to make

875
00:52:51,600 --> 00:52:55,399
Speaker 1: up their minds about hunting, um to show them that

876
00:52:55,440 --> 00:53:00,960
Speaker 1: this is an incredibly valuable activity and that they don't

877
00:53:01,000 --> 00:53:03,880
Speaker 1: have to engage in it, and if they don't wish to,

878
00:53:04,520 --> 00:53:06,880
Speaker 1: but if they wish to have access to the wild meat,

879
00:53:07,520 --> 00:53:09,600
Speaker 1: all they really need to do is make friends with

880
00:53:09,680 --> 00:53:13,480
Speaker 1: some some hunter or some fishermen, because undoubtedly they will

881
00:53:13,480 --> 00:53:16,719
Speaker 1: share this with them. So this Wild Harvest Initiative, I

882
00:53:16,719 --> 00:53:21,719
Speaker 1: am hoping well ultimately can bence state and federal governments

883
00:53:21,760 --> 00:53:25,680
Speaker 1: and provincial governments in Canada and the United States that

884
00:53:25,800 --> 00:53:28,960
Speaker 1: when they look at a piece of land that someone

885
00:53:29,000 --> 00:53:32,520
Speaker 1: wishes to develop, where someone wishes to put a mind,

886
00:53:33,480 --> 00:53:37,720
Speaker 1: where someone wishes to put a any kind of human

887
00:53:37,800 --> 00:53:40,640
Speaker 1: construction that is permanently going to take that land away,

888
00:53:41,600 --> 00:53:46,080
Speaker 1: they should realize that what they're doing is removing a

889
00:53:46,160 --> 00:53:49,320
Speaker 1: little bit of the food security of our two countries,

890
00:53:50,400 --> 00:53:53,040
Speaker 1: and that they should think very carefully about this before

891
00:53:53,080 --> 00:53:56,600
Speaker 1: they do it. You will notice that when there's a

892
00:53:56,640 --> 00:54:01,480
Speaker 1: debate in your state or in a province in Canada

893
00:54:01,600 --> 00:54:04,120
Speaker 1: over a piece of land and whether it should be developed.

894
00:54:04,840 --> 00:54:07,200
Speaker 1: People will go in and they'll see how much for

895
00:54:07,400 --> 00:54:11,120
Speaker 1: stry potential it has, how much agricultural potential it has,

896
00:54:11,320 --> 00:54:14,600
Speaker 1: how much mineral potential it has. All of those things

897
00:54:14,600 --> 00:54:18,200
Speaker 1: will be examined. Tell me the last time you heard

898
00:54:18,239 --> 00:54:20,360
Speaker 1: somebody go in and say, and you know what, the

899
00:54:20,360 --> 00:54:25,880
Speaker 1: wildlife is worth this much? You'll never are you afraid

900
00:54:26,120 --> 00:54:32,920
Speaker 1: of what those results might entail to how greedy some

901
00:54:33,440 --> 00:54:36,880
Speaker 1: I guess the negative effect on some of that research

902
00:54:36,920 --> 00:54:40,200
Speaker 1: where we go, you know, hey, it's worth this much.

903
00:54:40,239 --> 00:54:42,920
Speaker 1: But if you take it away, the cattle industry can

904
00:54:42,960 --> 00:54:47,600
Speaker 1: take this land and make this much money, more money,

905
00:54:47,640 --> 00:54:50,960
Speaker 1: and all and all those things. There will always be

906
00:54:51,640 --> 00:54:56,560
Speaker 1: a risk with creating knowledge. There is no way you

907
00:54:56,600 --> 00:55:00,759
Speaker 1: can create knowledge without risk. But I believe first of

908
00:55:00,800 --> 00:55:04,080
Speaker 1: all that the vast majority of people in Canada and

909
00:55:04,080 --> 00:55:09,759
Speaker 1: the United States care about animals. They care about wildlife.

910
00:55:10,800 --> 00:55:14,640
Speaker 1: They may not be bird watchers, they may not be kayakers.

911
00:55:14,640 --> 00:55:16,640
Speaker 1: They may not be hunters. They may not be anglers.

912
00:55:16,640 --> 00:55:19,640
Speaker 1: They may not be they may they may not spend

913
00:55:19,680 --> 00:55:22,840
Speaker 1: even very much time in the outdoors but they still

914
00:55:22,880 --> 00:55:26,600
Speaker 1: want to know that wildlife is there. So ultimately, I

915
00:55:26,680 --> 00:55:29,239
Speaker 1: think we have the broad public on our side when

916
00:55:29,280 --> 00:55:33,160
Speaker 1: we try to protect land for wildlife. What we need

917
00:55:33,160 --> 00:55:37,520
Speaker 1: to do is to give them stronger and stronger arguments

918
00:55:37,560 --> 00:55:42,439
Speaker 1: that matter in practical political debates, so that they can

919
00:55:42,480 --> 00:55:47,920
Speaker 1: win the argument for keeping wild lands, wild rivers, wild places,

920
00:55:48,120 --> 00:55:51,440
Speaker 1: and by that I mean productive places on both public

921
00:55:51,480 --> 00:55:56,200
Speaker 1: and private lands. Intact, I want to find every argument

922
00:55:56,280 --> 00:56:00,400
Speaker 1: I possibly can to protect land for wildlife and to

923
00:56:00,480 --> 00:56:05,239
Speaker 1: protect wildlife itself. And I think, in addition to all

924
00:56:05,280 --> 00:56:07,960
Speaker 1: of the economic arguments about hunting and angling and all

925
00:56:07,960 --> 00:56:10,680
Speaker 1: the jobs that are created. You know that I've pointed

926
00:56:10,719 --> 00:56:13,600
Speaker 1: out my various films and articles and so on and

927
00:56:13,640 --> 00:56:17,680
Speaker 1: so forth, in addition to that, there is this basic

928
00:56:17,880 --> 00:56:22,480
Speaker 1: value of these wildlife species that we hunt and fish for,

929
00:56:24,120 --> 00:56:28,359
Speaker 1: which is that they provide us with an extraordinarily rich

930
00:56:29,000 --> 00:56:35,080
Speaker 1: source of natural food. That was the original reason why

931
00:56:35,160 --> 00:56:39,200
Speaker 1: we pursued them in the hunt, and it is just

932
00:56:39,560 --> 00:56:42,960
Speaker 1: as important today that we keep them with us for this,

933
00:56:43,480 --> 00:56:47,759
Speaker 1: for this option, for those who wish to pursue it

934
00:56:48,400 --> 00:56:52,440
Speaker 1: as it was then, and when we harvest these animals,

935
00:56:52,440 --> 00:56:57,200
Speaker 1: As I said earlier in this discussion. We are driven

936
00:56:57,239 --> 00:57:02,240
Speaker 1: to share the meat, yes, But something else were driven

937
00:57:02,280 --> 00:57:07,680
Speaker 1: to share are the stories of our experiences in the wild,

938
00:57:08,200 --> 00:57:12,279
Speaker 1: in nature. And many of those stories, whether one would

939
00:57:12,320 --> 00:57:15,239
Speaker 1: ever become a hunter or an angler or not, are

940
00:57:15,280 --> 00:57:21,360
Speaker 1: capable of inspiring people to explore nature on their own terms.

941
00:57:21,560 --> 00:57:26,400
Speaker 1: I do not try to convince people to become hunters.

942
00:57:27,160 --> 00:57:29,960
Speaker 1: What I try to convince people of is to have

943
00:57:30,040 --> 00:57:33,560
Speaker 1: an open mind and to realize that there are benefits

944
00:57:33,560 --> 00:57:38,200
Speaker 1: in this activity that extend way beyond just the individuals

945
00:57:38,240 --> 00:57:42,680
Speaker 1: who are engaged in it. Most importantly, I want to

946
00:57:42,760 --> 00:57:48,760
Speaker 1: find more and more and better reasons to convince society

947
00:57:48,880 --> 00:57:55,440
Speaker 1: generally to keep those wild animals with us. Hunters have

948
00:57:55,520 --> 00:57:59,560
Speaker 1: a very good reason. They wish to have the experience

949
00:57:59,560 --> 00:58:02,440
Speaker 1: as they have had. They wish to feed themselves and

950
00:58:02,480 --> 00:58:05,120
Speaker 1: their families on this organic me we we have this.

951
00:58:06,240 --> 00:58:09,080
Speaker 1: We need to find ways to make as many people

952
00:58:09,120 --> 00:58:12,760
Speaker 1: as possible share in that emotion and to be as

953
00:58:12,800 --> 00:58:16,760
Speaker 1: committed as many hunters and anglers are to the conservation

954
00:58:16,800 --> 00:58:20,600
Speaker 1: of wildlife. Now, let me say something else, just in

955
00:58:20,640 --> 00:58:23,000
Speaker 1: case there are people listening to your show who are

956
00:58:23,040 --> 00:58:26,400
Speaker 1: not hunters, or who are not anglers, or maybe even

957
00:58:26,400 --> 00:58:30,840
Speaker 1: are people who are opposed to this activity. I do

958
00:58:30,880 --> 00:58:33,960
Speaker 1: not believe that hunters and anglers are the only conservationists

959
00:58:33,960 --> 00:58:38,200
Speaker 1: in the world. They are not. There are lots of

960
00:58:38,240 --> 00:58:41,479
Speaker 1: people who have worked very hard and continue to work

961
00:58:41,560 --> 00:58:46,320
Speaker 1: very hard to conserve wildlife. In addition to the use

962
00:58:46,400 --> 00:58:52,560
Speaker 1: of wildlife, there are preservationist approaches that can help. I

963
00:58:52,640 --> 00:58:56,120
Speaker 1: believe in national parks, I believe in protected wildernesses in

964
00:58:56,200 --> 00:58:59,640
Speaker 1: some areas, and so on and so forth. This conservation

965
00:58:59,720 --> 00:59:04,000
Speaker 1: game is not hours alone, and that means to come

966
00:59:04,040 --> 00:59:07,240
Speaker 1: to one of the other items we thought we might discuss.

967
00:59:08,200 --> 00:59:13,840
Speaker 1: That means that we have a responsibility to demonstrate to

968
00:59:13,920 --> 00:59:19,000
Speaker 1: the wider public why what we do is relevant, and

969
00:59:19,040 --> 00:59:22,320
Speaker 1: why what we do is done in a way that

970
00:59:22,480 --> 00:59:27,320
Speaker 1: is respectful and caring, despite what seems to be a contradiction,

971
00:59:28,040 --> 00:59:33,280
Speaker 1: caring for animals, and that we will be the ones

972
00:59:33,720 --> 00:59:38,800
Speaker 1: who will stand to defend them. Teddy Roosevelt said a

973
00:59:38,880 --> 00:59:43,840
Speaker 1: hundred more than a hundred years ago speaking about wildlife,

974
00:59:44,840 --> 00:59:46,640
Speaker 1: and he was as good a hunter as there was,

975
00:59:48,240 --> 00:59:50,120
Speaker 1: and he was not afraid, by the way to say

976
00:59:50,160 --> 00:59:53,440
Speaker 1: how much he loved animals, like a lot of hunters are.

977
00:59:53,600 --> 00:59:57,520
Speaker 1: He was very open about that, and he said one time,

978
00:59:58,320 --> 01:00:06,440
Speaker 1: they referring to wildlife cannot speak for themselves, so we will.

979
01:00:09,200 --> 01:00:12,200
Speaker 1: And if there's one role that every single hunter has,

980
01:00:13,400 --> 01:00:17,760
Speaker 1: it's that. Now. I know all hunters are not created equal.

981
01:00:19,040 --> 01:00:21,400
Speaker 1: I know some don't care about animals to the extent

982
01:00:21,480 --> 01:00:25,880
Speaker 1: that others do. But fortunately, I still believe that there

983
01:00:25,960 --> 01:00:28,960
Speaker 1: is a majority of hunters who really and anglers who

984
01:00:29,040 --> 01:00:33,200
Speaker 1: really do care about keeping those wild species with us.

985
01:00:34,280 --> 01:00:40,640
Speaker 1: And if we did nothing else but work for that

986
01:00:40,800 --> 01:00:46,480
Speaker 1: principle in some small way in our individual lives, we

987
01:00:46,600 --> 01:00:49,560
Speaker 1: will be making a contribution to what is the most

988
01:00:49,600 --> 01:00:53,560
Speaker 1: important thing in the world. Because I guarantee you in

989
01:00:53,640 --> 01:00:57,640
Speaker 1: this century, when we will go from seven billion to

990
01:00:57,880 --> 01:01:03,000
Speaker 1: eight and then to nine and maybe beyond that billions

991
01:01:03,000 --> 01:01:07,080
Speaker 1: of people, we will come to realize that it is

992
01:01:07,120 --> 01:01:12,640
Speaker 1: the conservation ethic, the sustainable use of natural resources that

993
01:01:13,400 --> 01:01:16,360
Speaker 1: hunting has been practicing for a hundred and twenty five

994
01:01:16,440 --> 01:01:19,160
Speaker 1: years in Canada and the United States and and angling

995
01:01:20,000 --> 01:01:23,520
Speaker 1: that will be the principle and the only principle that

996
01:01:23,600 --> 01:01:28,160
Speaker 1: will give us any chance of a reasonable existence. So,

997
01:01:28,160 --> 01:01:31,960
Speaker 1: so Shane, on to that point, I guess and started

998
01:01:32,000 --> 01:01:36,080
Speaker 1: to interrupt you, Um, I want to talk. I want

999
01:01:36,080 --> 01:01:38,520
Speaker 1: to hear more about your thoughts and ideas about how

1000
01:01:38,600 --> 01:01:42,080
Speaker 1: we can how we can keep hunting relevant, and how

1001
01:01:42,080 --> 01:01:46,720
Speaker 1: we can take responsibilities hunters today to promote that vision

1002
01:01:46,760 --> 01:01:49,920
Speaker 1: and mission. But before we get to that, I really

1003
01:01:49,960 --> 01:01:52,480
Speaker 1: want to key in on someone you just mentioned a

1004
01:01:52,520 --> 01:01:54,680
Speaker 1: second ago, before we get too far into the future.

1005
01:01:54,840 --> 01:01:56,760
Speaker 1: I really want to make sure that we get to

1006
01:01:56,800 --> 01:01:59,880
Speaker 1: hear from you about the past, Teddy Roosevelt and the

1007
01:02:00,000 --> 01:02:04,000
Speaker 1: other characters who helped develop our conservation ethic here in

1008
01:02:04,480 --> 01:02:07,240
Speaker 1: North America. And I don't know anybody else who can

1009
01:02:07,280 --> 01:02:09,440
Speaker 1: speak to this better than you, So I want to

1010
01:02:09,480 --> 01:02:12,760
Speaker 1: make sure that we touch on this. Can you can

1011
01:02:12,800 --> 01:02:14,520
Speaker 1: you take us back in time a little bit? And

1012
01:02:14,560 --> 01:02:16,240
Speaker 1: I know we're kind of bouncing around here by her.

1013
01:02:16,360 --> 01:02:17,920
Speaker 1: I really want to make sure we hear about this.

1014
01:02:18,040 --> 01:02:22,120
Speaker 1: Can you give us the background the story of how

1015
01:02:22,240 --> 01:02:27,280
Speaker 1: the hunter conservation excuse me, the hunter conservationist triggered much

1016
01:02:27,320 --> 01:02:30,800
Speaker 1: of this conservation movement that we now enjoy today. Can

1017
01:02:30,840 --> 01:02:33,920
Speaker 1: you walk us through that story and the major characters

1018
01:02:34,000 --> 01:02:38,200
Speaker 1: that have given us so much today. But before we

1019
01:02:38,280 --> 01:02:40,200
Speaker 1: hear from Shane on this, we do need to take

1020
01:02:40,440 --> 01:02:42,800
Speaker 1: a very brief break for a word. From one of

1021
01:02:42,800 --> 01:02:46,840
Speaker 1: our sponsors of this episode of the podcast Redneck Blinds,

1022
01:02:46,880 --> 01:02:48,840
Speaker 1: and this year, for the first time, I tried one

1023
01:02:48,840 --> 01:02:51,640
Speaker 1: of their hay bail blinds. Yes, this is the blind

1024
01:02:51,680 --> 01:02:54,280
Speaker 1: that looks exactly like a hay bail, and I've been

1025
01:02:54,600 --> 01:02:56,800
Speaker 1: really impressed with it. But I'm not the only one.

1026
01:02:57,280 --> 01:03:00,160
Speaker 1: My friend Sean Lucktell, host of Heartland Bohunter t V,

1027
01:03:00,560 --> 01:03:03,280
Speaker 1: also has been using haybil blind and I've recently asked

1028
01:03:03,320 --> 01:03:06,120
Speaker 1: him to share with us how it's changed how he hunts.

1029
01:03:06,480 --> 01:03:09,960
Speaker 1: Here's Sean the red net cable blinds and changed the

1030
01:03:10,000 --> 01:03:14,600
Speaker 1: way we hunt completely. Um, I'm actually more apt to

1031
01:03:14,680 --> 01:03:16,120
Speaker 1: use them than I am a lot of times to

1032
01:03:16,200 --> 01:03:18,720
Speaker 1: be in a tree just because of concealment. For one

1033
01:03:19,120 --> 01:03:22,840
Speaker 1: and two, I can you know the mobility of them.

1034
01:03:22,840 --> 01:03:25,760
Speaker 1: I can put them out pretty much anywhere in the field,

1035
01:03:26,320 --> 01:03:27,840
Speaker 1: even if I don't feel like there's been a hay

1036
01:03:27,880 --> 01:03:29,600
Speaker 1: bill in that field before. I feel like the deer

1037
01:03:29,600 --> 01:03:31,440
Speaker 1: in the area have obviously seen a hay bill in

1038
01:03:31,480 --> 01:03:34,680
Speaker 1: my life and typically don't think twice about it. So

1039
01:03:35,320 --> 01:03:37,120
Speaker 1: Bill walk right in front of it if that blind

1040
01:03:37,120 --> 01:03:39,959
Speaker 1: has been there sometimes for me and pay without even

1041
01:03:40,080 --> 01:03:43,040
Speaker 1: thinking twice. You even looking at it, so concealment with

1042
01:03:43,200 --> 01:03:45,400
Speaker 1: me being inside of it too old in the front,

1043
01:03:45,440 --> 01:03:48,960
Speaker 1: it's completely blacked out. They don't they can't see inside,

1044
01:03:49,000 --> 01:03:50,480
Speaker 1: so they have no idea in there as long as

1045
01:03:50,480 --> 01:03:53,760
Speaker 1: your wing is correct. And then another reason I like

1046
01:03:53,880 --> 01:03:58,800
Speaker 1: them is further durability. Um, it's changed the way on

1047
01:03:58,880 --> 01:04:02,000
Speaker 1: a blind hunting has gone on completely because a lot

1048
01:04:02,040 --> 01:04:04,640
Speaker 1: of times you put out a ground line and to

1049
01:04:04,640 --> 01:04:07,320
Speaker 1: worry about the wind or snow, rain and all that

1050
01:04:07,480 --> 01:04:11,560
Speaker 1: just catching your blind now and ruining it really, whereas

1051
01:04:11,560 --> 01:04:13,520
Speaker 1: I can leave a bail blind out all year long

1052
01:04:14,200 --> 01:04:16,560
Speaker 1: and sometimes for a couple of years without even having

1053
01:04:16,560 --> 01:04:19,680
Speaker 1: to change the cover on it. So these blinds are

1054
01:04:19,720 --> 01:04:22,880
Speaker 1: built to last, and it's changed the way aren't Hunting

1055
01:04:23,480 --> 01:04:25,960
Speaker 1: has gone in the past couple of years dramatically. So

1056
01:04:26,720 --> 01:04:29,880
Speaker 1: I love them and will continue to use them when

1057
01:04:30,000 --> 01:04:33,720
Speaker 1: the years to come. So if you are interested in

1058
01:04:33,760 --> 01:04:36,320
Speaker 1: trying out one of these redneck hay bail blinds, we've

1059
01:04:36,360 --> 01:04:39,000
Speaker 1: got a special deal for you. From now through the

1060
01:04:39,120 --> 01:04:42,400
Speaker 1: end of two thousand fifteen, you can get two off

1061
01:04:42,400 --> 01:04:45,400
Speaker 1: your purchase of the Sportsman hay Baill blind. That's two

1062
01:04:46,080 --> 01:04:49,800
Speaker 1: off if you use the promo code wired. That's w

1063
01:04:50,200 --> 01:04:54,360
Speaker 1: I R E D at checkout. So visit Redneck Blinds

1064
01:04:54,360 --> 01:04:57,600
Speaker 1: dot com and use promo code wired to get two

1065
01:04:58,080 --> 01:05:01,440
Speaker 1: dollars off. And now let's get back to our conversation

1066
01:05:01,520 --> 01:05:03,760
Speaker 1: with Shane Mahoney as he shares with us some of

1067
01:05:03,760 --> 01:05:11,200
Speaker 1: the history of the modern conservation movement. Absolutely um, you know,

1068
01:05:11,320 --> 01:05:15,920
Speaker 1: the so called discovery of America, North America, Canada, and

1069
01:05:16,000 --> 01:05:21,000
Speaker 1: the United States by Europeans um opened up to them

1070
01:05:21,080 --> 01:05:27,800
Speaker 1: a world that was simply unbelievable to them, and they

1071
01:05:27,840 --> 01:05:31,280
Speaker 1: they did truly believe that the natural resources of this

1072
01:05:31,520 --> 01:05:41,000
Speaker 1: eden um were inexhaustible, and that eventually culminated by the

1073
01:05:41,040 --> 01:05:44,080
Speaker 1: middle of the early part and through the middle and

1074
01:05:44,160 --> 01:05:48,400
Speaker 1: the latter part of the nineteenth century, culminated in a

1075
01:05:48,440 --> 01:05:54,040
Speaker 1: massive escalation in the commercial slaughter of wildlife and forests

1076
01:05:54,120 --> 01:05:57,600
Speaker 1: and fish and so on and so forth to feed

1077
01:05:58,400 --> 01:06:03,560
Speaker 1: the marketplace and to generate wealth and build the economy.

1078
01:06:04,520 --> 01:06:07,640
Speaker 1: And the end result was, of course, that we began

1079
01:06:07,720 --> 01:06:13,080
Speaker 1: to see a slaughter of wildlife on this extraordinarily large

1080
01:06:13,560 --> 01:06:18,400
Speaker 1: land mass of of unprecedented proportions, nothing like it had

1081
01:06:18,400 --> 01:06:23,680
Speaker 1: ever occurred previously in the world. To make you understand

1082
01:06:23,800 --> 01:06:27,800
Speaker 1: what the scale of this was like, um, you know,

1083
01:06:28,320 --> 01:06:32,680
Speaker 1: we saw the demise obviously of the bison from thirty

1084
01:06:32,720 --> 01:06:35,720
Speaker 1: to some say as many as sixty but let's say

1085
01:06:35,760 --> 01:06:41,080
Speaker 1: thirty million animals down to virtually none handful. You know,

1086
01:06:41,160 --> 01:06:44,960
Speaker 1: within a period of about a dozen years or so,

1087
01:06:45,880 --> 01:06:50,200
Speaker 1: we saw the disappearance of many species like the passenger pigeon,

1088
01:06:50,280 --> 01:06:52,920
Speaker 1: and the Carolina parakeet, and the labrador duck, and the

1089
01:06:53,000 --> 01:06:57,640
Speaker 1: great a concern, many many, many, many others. But also

1090
01:06:58,840 --> 01:07:01,960
Speaker 1: if the United States had had an Endangered Species Act

1091
01:07:03,080 --> 01:07:08,800
Speaker 1: in say, nineteen hundred ten on that list of endangered

1092
01:07:08,840 --> 01:07:13,720
Speaker 1: species would have been the pronghorn, the mule deer, the

1093
01:07:13,760 --> 01:07:20,880
Speaker 1: wild turkey, um, the white tail, of course, the black bear,

1094
01:07:20,920 --> 01:07:26,720
Speaker 1: the wood duck, so many of the common species that

1095
01:07:26,760 --> 01:07:30,960
Speaker 1: we today the Canada goose, so many species that today

1096
01:07:31,040 --> 01:07:35,480
Speaker 1: we see living in teeming abundance, would all have been listed.

1097
01:07:35,880 --> 01:07:39,600
Speaker 1: That was the scale of slaughter, of commercial slaughter that

1098
01:07:39,720 --> 01:07:49,160
Speaker 1: was occurring. What rose two stop. This was largely a

1099
01:07:49,200 --> 01:07:54,720
Speaker 1: cagory of people who hunted and fished, who believed in

1100
01:07:54,760 --> 01:08:00,000
Speaker 1: the idea of continuing to harvest but at the same

1101
01:07:59,840 --> 01:08:06,600
Speaker 1: time to ensuring the future of these populations of wild animals.

1102
01:08:06,640 --> 01:08:11,400
Speaker 1: For future generations. One of the most prominent of these people,

1103
01:08:11,480 --> 01:08:15,440
Speaker 1: of course, was Teddy Roosevelt, and he surrounded himself in

1104
01:08:15,480 --> 01:08:18,120
Speaker 1: eighty seven when he founded the Boone and Crockett Club

1105
01:08:18,200 --> 01:08:22,960
Speaker 1: by a small group of very influential people who who

1106
01:08:23,040 --> 01:08:26,960
Speaker 1: also hunted and fished and who were passionate about those activities,

1107
01:08:27,680 --> 01:08:33,400
Speaker 1: and he began uh and spearheaded this movement towards what

1108
01:08:33,760 --> 01:08:38,680
Speaker 1: became known as conservation, something that no one was knew about. This.

1109
01:08:38,840 --> 01:08:43,720
Speaker 1: This was an invention, this idea of conservation, and he

1110
01:08:43,760 --> 01:08:47,080
Speaker 1: was supported in this, of course by hundreds of small

1111
01:08:47,200 --> 01:08:52,400
Speaker 1: hunting clubs and shooting clubs that existed across the United States.

1112
01:08:52,439 --> 01:08:56,559
Speaker 1: He was also assisted, we must remember, by people like

1113
01:08:56,680 --> 01:09:03,439
Speaker 1: John Muir, who were outspoken advocates for wilderness preservation. And

1114
01:09:03,520 --> 01:09:07,599
Speaker 1: we're not as keen on hunting, but the primary driving

1115
01:09:07,640 --> 01:09:11,960
Speaker 1: force at that time to do away with market hunting

1116
01:09:12,400 --> 01:09:16,160
Speaker 1: and the commercial exploitation of wildlife that was absolutely destroying

1117
01:09:16,200 --> 01:09:21,440
Speaker 1: and denuding it. You know, from across this continent were

1118
01:09:21,640 --> 01:09:25,400
Speaker 1: this group of dedicated hunters and anglers who believed in

1119
01:09:25,840 --> 01:09:31,240
Speaker 1: sustainable use of wildlife and fair chase hunting, and who

1120
01:09:31,240 --> 01:09:36,719
Speaker 1: were opposed vehemently to the use of netting and these

1121
01:09:36,800 --> 01:09:41,439
Speaker 1: large stunned guns and any practice that was simply taking

1122
01:09:41,439 --> 01:09:44,799
Speaker 1: wildlife in large numbers for commercial reasons, and they turned

1123
01:09:44,800 --> 01:09:49,759
Speaker 1: it into a personal pursuit, for personal means, to acquire

1124
01:09:49,840 --> 01:09:54,280
Speaker 1: the experience, to have the animal for oneself, not for

1125
01:09:54,360 --> 01:09:59,000
Speaker 1: the sale to others. That transformation that took place between

1126
01:09:59,360 --> 01:10:04,920
Speaker 1: eighteen the late eighteen hundreds and early into the twenty

1127
01:10:05,120 --> 01:10:10,080
Speaker 1: century beyond a shadow of a doubt, was responsible for

1128
01:10:11,160 --> 01:10:15,800
Speaker 1: first of all the recovery and then the maintenance, and

1129
01:10:15,840 --> 01:10:20,240
Speaker 1: then the managements and security of the wildlife populations that

1130
01:10:20,280 --> 01:10:25,000
Speaker 1: you share today for every hunter, but also for every

1131
01:10:25,120 --> 01:10:30,040
Speaker 1: non hunter who revels in the sight of turkeys or

1132
01:10:30,200 --> 01:10:35,080
Speaker 1: white tails, or mule deer or elk or those common

1133
01:10:35,120 --> 01:10:38,400
Speaker 1: species that were so used to seeing. Now every single

1134
01:10:38,479 --> 01:10:42,120
Speaker 1: one of us owes that to those people who worked

1135
01:10:42,160 --> 01:10:46,240
Speaker 1: so hard for this over a hundred years ago. That

1136
01:10:46,360 --> 01:10:51,599
Speaker 1: went on to of course inspire generation after generation of

1137
01:10:51,680 --> 01:10:55,000
Speaker 1: people who felt the same and eventually gave rise to

1138
01:10:55,040 --> 01:10:58,440
Speaker 1: the great leaders of the nineteen thirties, the ding Darlings

1139
01:10:58,439 --> 01:11:01,880
Speaker 1: and the alder leopoles and people of this nature, and

1140
01:11:01,960 --> 01:11:06,000
Speaker 1: then later gave rise, of course, beginning at that time

1141
01:11:06,000 --> 01:11:09,200
Speaker 1: and on through the nineteen eighties, the rise of all

1142
01:11:09,240 --> 01:11:14,479
Speaker 1: the NGOs, the Ducks Unlimited, the Wildlife Federations, the Wild

1143
01:11:14,479 --> 01:11:18,200
Speaker 1: Turkey Federation, the plethora of other groups, the Isaac Walton Leagues,

1144
01:11:18,320 --> 01:11:22,280
Speaker 1: and the the Audubon societies, and the all the groups

1145
01:11:22,320 --> 01:11:24,640
Speaker 1: that have been out there fighting for wildlife and conservation.

1146
01:11:24,720 --> 01:11:28,320
Speaker 1: They all came out of that fament and that storm

1147
01:11:28,360 --> 01:11:30,320
Speaker 1: of controversy. And let me tell you, this was no

1148
01:11:30,439 --> 01:11:34,200
Speaker 1: small thing. When when they tried to shut down these

1149
01:11:34,200 --> 01:11:38,640
Speaker 1: commercial activities, these commercial enterprises, there were powerful people and

1150
01:11:38,720 --> 01:11:42,559
Speaker 1: powerful guills who opposed them. This was not an easy task.

1151
01:11:43,479 --> 01:11:45,960
Speaker 1: And when I hear people today complain that we've got

1152
01:11:46,000 --> 01:11:49,679
Speaker 1: a big task to protect wildlife or to protect hunting

1153
01:11:49,760 --> 01:11:52,439
Speaker 1: or something, you know, I asked them to try and

1154
01:11:52,600 --> 01:11:57,080
Speaker 1: make themselves familiar with this history. These were giants. These

1155
01:11:57,080 --> 01:12:01,639
Speaker 1: were people that, without home, this continent would look entirely different.

1156
01:12:02,479 --> 01:12:05,280
Speaker 1: Do you know when the Boone and Crocker Club showed

1157
01:12:05,360 --> 01:12:08,080
Speaker 1: its first display of heads and horns? These are the

1158
01:12:08,560 --> 01:12:12,360
Speaker 1: mounted heads of animals that were harvested by hunters. Very

1159
01:12:12,360 --> 01:12:16,960
Speaker 1: few people in the United States realize that the primary

1160
01:12:17,040 --> 01:12:20,439
Speaker 1: purpose of that collection of heads and horns as it

1161
01:12:20,560 --> 01:12:26,880
Speaker 1: became known, was to show the American people wildlife species

1162
01:12:27,439 --> 01:12:32,360
Speaker 1: like big horn sheep, doll sheep, elk, and multia, etcetera, etcetera,

1163
01:12:33,200 --> 01:12:36,720
Speaker 1: that most learned observers, including those in the Boone and

1164
01:12:36,720 --> 01:12:42,160
Speaker 1: Crocket Club, believed were on the verge of extinction and

1165
01:12:42,280 --> 01:12:46,479
Speaker 1: that the only way for the citizens of your country

1166
01:12:46,600 --> 01:12:50,599
Speaker 1: to ever see one of those animals was to see

1167
01:12:50,800 --> 01:12:55,760
Speaker 1: that representative head on the wall. That is why they

1168
01:12:55,800 --> 01:13:02,160
Speaker 1: did it. That's how dire the circumstances were. Now we

1169
01:13:02,240 --> 01:13:06,440
Speaker 1: flash forward to today. We have turkeys in our driveways,

1170
01:13:07,360 --> 01:13:10,559
Speaker 1: We have white tails in our rose gardens. We have

1171
01:13:10,680 --> 01:13:15,439
Speaker 1: helk in our farm fields. You know. We have Canada

1172
01:13:15,479 --> 01:13:20,040
Speaker 1: geese that are almost everywhere. You know. We we we

1173
01:13:20,200 --> 01:13:23,920
Speaker 1: have prong horn that are teeming. I mean we have.

1174
01:13:24,160 --> 01:13:27,920
Speaker 1: We have brought wildlife back from the brink of extinction

1175
01:13:28,040 --> 01:13:31,639
Speaker 1: at a scale that is unprecedented in any other part

1176
01:13:31,680 --> 01:13:36,640
Speaker 1: of the world. And hunters, I caution, were not the

1177
01:13:36,800 --> 01:13:41,919
Speaker 1: only ones, but they were the spearhead. They were the

1178
01:13:41,960 --> 01:13:45,320
Speaker 1: folk grew force. They were the thing that was the

1179
01:13:45,520 --> 01:13:51,879
Speaker 1: unstoppable passion that would simply not stand by and allow

1180
01:13:52,160 --> 01:13:56,320
Speaker 1: these wildlife populations to be destroyed. And it was not

1181
01:13:56,600 --> 01:14:01,800
Speaker 1: only the hunted populations you have to remember, or the

1182
01:14:01,800 --> 01:14:05,360
Speaker 1: ones we wish to hunt. That the first wildlife refuge

1183
01:14:05,400 --> 01:14:13,439
Speaker 1: that Theodore Roosevelt created was Pelican Island to protect pelicans

1184
01:14:13,920 --> 01:14:19,840
Speaker 1: and other shore birds. And it was not about hunting them,

1185
01:14:20,000 --> 01:14:24,040
Speaker 1: It was about protecting them for future generations. As he said,

1186
01:14:25,360 --> 01:14:27,839
Speaker 1: he believed it was the right of every American citizen

1187
01:14:28,720 --> 01:14:32,320
Speaker 1: to harvest the resources of the nation, but it was

1188
01:14:32,400 --> 01:14:35,439
Speaker 1: not the right of any American citizen to do so

1189
01:14:35,600 --> 01:14:40,040
Speaker 1: in a manner that robbed future generations of that right.

1190
01:14:41,960 --> 01:14:45,360
Speaker 1: And that is the entire philosophical basis for our conservation

1191
01:14:45,479 --> 01:14:50,360
Speaker 1: movement and certainly for the sustainable use hunting an angling movement,

1192
01:14:50,400 --> 01:14:53,080
Speaker 1: not only in the United States, but in Canada and

1193
01:14:53,200 --> 01:14:56,240
Speaker 1: indeed now around the world. This was one of the

1194
01:14:56,320 --> 01:15:00,320
Speaker 1: great gifts of America to the world. And at the

1195
01:15:00,360 --> 01:15:05,200
Speaker 1: same time, the first national parks, the first wilderness areas, etcetera, etcetera,

1196
01:15:05,320 --> 01:15:10,559
Speaker 1: all part of this extraordinary experiment by the American people

1197
01:15:10,720 --> 01:15:14,920
Speaker 1: and the Canadians joining with them to safeguard the riches

1198
01:15:15,560 --> 01:15:18,759
Speaker 1: of this continent. So you ask, what do hunters today

1199
01:15:18,840 --> 01:15:26,240
Speaker 1: have to do? Every single hunter, every single hunter, has

1200
01:15:26,240 --> 01:15:31,160
Speaker 1: a responsibility to follow in the footsteps of those leaders.

1201
01:15:33,720 --> 01:15:38,960
Speaker 1: When a human being willfully takes the life of a

1202
01:15:39,040 --> 01:15:46,560
Speaker 1: wild sentient creature, in my opinion, they are then separated

1203
01:15:46,680 --> 01:15:52,200
Speaker 1: forever from those who have not. And one of the

1204
01:15:52,240 --> 01:15:56,280
Speaker 1: signatures of that separation is that person who has taken

1205
01:15:56,320 --> 01:16:01,080
Speaker 1: that life now has the responsibility to give back in

1206
01:16:01,120 --> 01:16:03,960
Speaker 1: a way that the person who has never done so

1207
01:16:04,360 --> 01:16:08,680
Speaker 1: does not. So when I hear hunters belly aching sometimes

1208
01:16:08,680 --> 01:16:11,320
Speaker 1: about all they do for conservation and all they do

1209
01:16:11,400 --> 01:16:13,960
Speaker 1: for wildlife, and they pay more than the rest of

1210
01:16:14,000 --> 01:16:16,519
Speaker 1: the public pays, and all this kind of stuff, I

1211
01:16:16,640 --> 01:16:21,240
Speaker 1: say to them, grow up, realize that that is your

1212
01:16:21,280 --> 01:16:26,920
Speaker 1: responsibility to do more, because you were taught to do

1213
01:16:27,040 --> 01:16:30,960
Speaker 1: more by the people who founded this movement, and you

1214
01:16:31,640 --> 01:16:36,519
Speaker 1: have taken ended the life of a sentient creature that

1215
01:16:36,600 --> 01:16:40,559
Speaker 1: otherwise would not have died at that moment, and at

1216
01:16:40,600 --> 01:16:46,799
Speaker 1: that time. We have to convince the broad public going forward,

1217
01:16:46,880 --> 01:16:52,679
Speaker 1: because hunting worldwide is under great threat, the largest threat

1218
01:16:52,720 --> 01:16:55,919
Speaker 1: that I have ever seen in my career, in my lifetime,

1219
01:16:56,880 --> 01:16:59,680
Speaker 1: and that is true for many people who are very

1220
01:17:00,040 --> 01:17:05,280
Speaker 1: variance in this business around the world. We have to

1221
01:17:05,320 --> 01:17:10,360
Speaker 1: convince the broad publics of this world that our ultimate

1222
01:17:10,360 --> 01:17:15,639
Speaker 1: objective is to ensure the conservation of wildlife going forward.

1223
01:17:17,320 --> 01:17:19,920
Speaker 1: If we give the impression that the only thing we

1224
01:17:20,000 --> 01:17:25,280
Speaker 1: are interested in preserving is our right to hunt, I

1225
01:17:25,320 --> 01:17:30,519
Speaker 1: will tell you that we will be shut down bit

1226
01:17:31,160 --> 01:17:36,720
Speaker 1: by bid, peace by peace. But more than that, it

1227
01:17:36,840 --> 01:17:41,240
Speaker 1: is my personal opinion that if our only interest is

1228
01:17:41,280 --> 01:17:45,800
Speaker 1: in keeping our opportunity to hunt, something I believe in obviously,

1229
01:17:46,360 --> 01:17:49,519
Speaker 1: But if it that is the only thing, and we

1230
01:17:49,640 --> 01:17:53,760
Speaker 1: are not working on behalf of those wild others, then

1231
01:17:53,800 --> 01:17:58,160
Speaker 1: we have failed the giants who came before us. We

1232
01:17:58,240 --> 01:18:01,880
Speaker 1: have failed the people who made our thing possible, and

1233
01:18:01,920 --> 01:18:05,200
Speaker 1: we have failed those creatures that made it all possible.

1234
01:18:07,280 --> 01:18:13,439
Speaker 1: We will either convince the public that we care about them,

1235
01:18:13,439 --> 01:18:17,360
Speaker 1: that we are working on their behalf, well, they will

1236
01:18:17,400 --> 01:18:22,320
Speaker 1: see us as simply selfish and indulgence. And all that

1237
01:18:22,400 --> 01:18:27,080
Speaker 1: happens is that an animal, a beautiful wild thing, dies

1238
01:18:28,920 --> 01:18:33,000
Speaker 1: to allow us to have that indulgence. And I'll ask

1239
01:18:33,040 --> 01:18:35,240
Speaker 1: every hunter listening to this show, and I'll ask both

1240
01:18:35,280 --> 01:18:39,559
Speaker 1: of you do you think modern society is going to

1241
01:18:39,600 --> 01:18:45,600
Speaker 1: accept that? And to answer you, the answers is, I

1242
01:18:45,600 --> 01:18:50,040
Speaker 1: don't think so. But with that being the case, Shane,

1243
01:18:50,680 --> 01:18:55,080
Speaker 1: you know I think a lot of hunters, and when

1244
01:18:55,120 --> 01:18:58,880
Speaker 1: I think about this, this issue, I believe that there's

1245
01:18:58,920 --> 01:19:01,920
Speaker 1: probably a number hunters who maybe don't even think about this,

1246
01:19:02,040 --> 01:19:04,200
Speaker 1: and I want to we need to change that, obviously.

1247
01:19:04,240 --> 01:19:06,759
Speaker 1: But then there's a second portion of the hunting population

1248
01:19:06,800 --> 01:19:09,280
Speaker 1: who does think about this, and who who sees the

1249
01:19:09,320 --> 01:19:13,839
Speaker 1: importance of taking these types of steps to both communicate

1250
01:19:13,880 --> 01:19:16,439
Speaker 1: to the broader public our our value in our and

1251
01:19:16,439 --> 01:19:19,400
Speaker 1: our desires and goals, but then also to to take

1252
01:19:19,439 --> 01:19:23,000
Speaker 1: action into following the footsteps of our forefathers. Um. But

1253
01:19:23,080 --> 01:19:25,360
Speaker 1: I think a lot of these things are easier said

1254
01:19:25,640 --> 01:19:28,760
Speaker 1: or easier thought about while sitting on our couch than

1255
01:19:28,800 --> 01:19:31,439
Speaker 1: they're actually done. And a lot of people I talked to,

1256
01:19:31,479 --> 01:19:33,519
Speaker 1: and even myself, when I sit here and think, I

1257
01:19:33,560 --> 01:19:37,320
Speaker 1: think about my responsibility as a hunter conservationist, what can

1258
01:19:37,360 --> 01:19:39,880
Speaker 1: I do? A lot of times that's well, I can,

1259
01:19:39,920 --> 01:19:42,360
Speaker 1: I can talk about it, I can give thirty five

1260
01:19:42,400 --> 01:19:46,040
Speaker 1: dollars to this organization. I can, you know, sign this

1261
01:19:46,240 --> 01:19:50,880
Speaker 1: quick petition. But it becomes harder to know how do

1262
01:19:51,120 --> 01:19:54,519
Speaker 1: how does an individual hunter? How's an individual person out

1263
01:19:54,560 --> 01:19:59,800
Speaker 1: there take tangible action to move this this mission for

1264
01:20:00,080 --> 01:20:02,479
Speaker 1: Can you share this shame? Some tangible things that our

1265
01:20:02,479 --> 01:20:06,240
Speaker 1: listeners can do today to move forward into to do

1266
01:20:06,360 --> 01:20:09,519
Speaker 1: our forefathers right and keep this hunting tradition in our

1267
01:20:09,560 --> 01:20:14,400
Speaker 1: wildlife populations and landscapes productive. As you say, well, first

1268
01:20:14,439 --> 01:20:16,439
Speaker 1: of all, I think all those things that you list,

1269
01:20:17,120 --> 01:20:20,080
Speaker 1: I mean, I think talking about it. I think supporting

1270
01:20:21,120 --> 01:20:25,000
Speaker 1: conservation organizations that are doing good things, whether they are

1271
01:20:25,080 --> 01:20:31,080
Speaker 1: hunting based conservation organizations or non hunting based conservation organizations,

1272
01:20:31,640 --> 01:20:34,160
Speaker 1: you know, helping them to do their work. I think

1273
01:20:34,160 --> 01:20:37,880
Speaker 1: this is very important. Um. I think it is important

1274
01:20:38,160 --> 01:20:43,960
Speaker 1: that individuals who hunt find ways of communicating to a

1275
01:20:44,000 --> 01:20:46,840
Speaker 1: slightly wider audience than just their friends in their in

1276
01:20:46,880 --> 01:20:49,519
Speaker 1: their home or you know, in their in their in

1277
01:20:49,560 --> 01:20:55,000
Speaker 1: their in their workplace, that they find other ways of

1278
01:20:55,040 --> 01:20:59,920
Speaker 1: communicating this. We can all. We can all, especially into

1279
01:21:00,040 --> 01:21:04,360
Speaker 1: day's world of social media. We can all share thoughtful

1280
01:21:05,479 --> 01:21:10,080
Speaker 1: feelings about hunting. We can all write a small letter

1281
01:21:10,160 --> 01:21:15,840
Speaker 1: to our local newspaper. We can all help volunteer at

1282
01:21:16,000 --> 01:21:21,040
Speaker 1: many kinds of conservation activities. Small you know, clean up

1283
01:21:21,040 --> 01:21:24,440
Speaker 1: of trash, clean up of small streams in our neighborhood,

1284
01:21:25,360 --> 01:21:28,439
Speaker 1: helping to green areas in our cities or our towns.

1285
01:21:29,080 --> 01:21:31,479
Speaker 1: You know, there's a there's a there's a million kinds

1286
01:21:31,479 --> 01:21:34,439
Speaker 1: of those activities that any one of us, as a

1287
01:21:34,520 --> 01:21:39,280
Speaker 1: hunter can undertake, because what we want to demonstrate is

1288
01:21:39,320 --> 01:21:43,519
Speaker 1: that we care and that conservation matters to us. Yes,

1289
01:21:43,600 --> 01:21:46,559
Speaker 1: hunting matters to us, of course it does. We know

1290
01:21:46,640 --> 01:21:49,600
Speaker 1: what hunting has given us. But what we need to

1291
01:21:49,640 --> 01:21:52,599
Speaker 1: make sure we demonstrate is that we care about the

1292
01:21:52,600 --> 01:21:55,960
Speaker 1: conservation of nature. Not everybody is going to be a

1293
01:21:56,040 --> 01:22:01,000
Speaker 1: Teddy Roosevelt, but you know, Teddy Roosevelt didn't accomplish this

1294
01:22:01,080 --> 01:22:04,639
Speaker 1: on his own. There are hundreds and thousands of people

1295
01:22:04,640 --> 01:22:07,280
Speaker 1: who were working at the same time, whose names we

1296
01:22:07,360 --> 01:22:12,720
Speaker 1: don't know, but who did small things, things that were

1297
01:22:12,760 --> 01:22:17,519
Speaker 1: within their capacities to do that help move this big

1298
01:22:17,560 --> 01:22:21,080
Speaker 1: ship forward, to eventually launch it, and then to steer

1299
01:22:21,120 --> 01:22:24,360
Speaker 1: it and make sure that it lasted against all of

1300
01:22:24,400 --> 01:22:28,680
Speaker 1: the challenges that have come our way over time. I

1301
01:22:28,720 --> 01:22:32,759
Speaker 1: think people, and I appreciate your point that people often

1302
01:22:32,960 --> 01:22:38,160
Speaker 1: don't know how quite you know, to engage, or how

1303
01:22:38,200 --> 01:22:41,559
Speaker 1: they can actually do something. But if they sit back

1304
01:22:41,600 --> 01:22:44,599
Speaker 1: and think about it, you know there are a lot

1305
01:22:44,720 --> 01:22:48,880
Speaker 1: of little things that they can do. They can help

1306
01:22:49,520 --> 01:22:53,680
Speaker 1: educate youth, they can help just take people out in

1307
01:22:53,840 --> 01:22:56,040
Speaker 1: nature and show them the things that they know. And

1308
01:22:56,080 --> 01:22:57,920
Speaker 1: I don't mean by taking them out and showing them

1309
01:22:57,920 --> 01:23:00,680
Speaker 1: out of hunt only. I mean taking people out and

1310
01:23:00,720 --> 01:23:05,320
Speaker 1: showing them because hunters tend to be comfortable in, you know,

1311
01:23:05,400 --> 01:23:08,320
Speaker 1: in these circumstances, to take them out and show them

1312
01:23:08,360 --> 01:23:12,000
Speaker 1: just the things they know and the reasons why they

1313
01:23:12,040 --> 01:23:15,439
Speaker 1: feel as strongly as they do about nature. They can

1314
01:23:15,479 --> 01:23:19,720
Speaker 1: invest in and and ask for school programs that that

1315
01:23:20,280 --> 01:23:23,840
Speaker 1: encourage their their own children and other children to be

1316
01:23:23,920 --> 01:23:27,799
Speaker 1: taught about issues of conservation. You know, lots of times

1317
01:23:27,800 --> 01:23:31,439
Speaker 1: teachers are looking for examples of things in literature or

1318
01:23:31,640 --> 01:23:37,080
Speaker 1: history or other disciplines as as examples as ways to

1319
01:23:37,200 --> 01:23:42,040
Speaker 1: teach lessons to young young to students. Well, why can't

1320
01:23:42,080 --> 01:23:46,839
Speaker 1: they be using lessons from the conservation world and lessons

1321
01:23:46,880 --> 01:23:50,200
Speaker 1: and writings from great hunters. I mean, there are many,

1322
01:23:50,240 --> 01:23:53,320
Speaker 1: many exciting things that are buried in the writings of

1323
01:23:53,720 --> 01:23:56,439
Speaker 1: Theodore Roosevelt and other people like him, and all the

1324
01:23:56,600 --> 01:24:01,679
Speaker 1: Leopold who is universally admired, who which can be used

1325
01:24:02,040 --> 01:24:06,880
Speaker 1: to improve the minds and and the and the philosophies

1326
01:24:07,360 --> 01:24:11,479
Speaker 1: of young people everywhere. It doesn't have to be that

1327
01:24:11,600 --> 01:24:15,559
Speaker 1: the hunter or the angler is restricted to only being

1328
01:24:15,600 --> 01:24:19,680
Speaker 1: able to share their knowledge with individuals who wish to

1329
01:24:19,720 --> 01:24:25,200
Speaker 1: become hunters and anglers. There's so many things that they

1330
01:24:25,240 --> 01:24:28,519
Speaker 1: can do. I once one of my recent articles for

1331
01:24:28,560 --> 01:24:30,720
Speaker 1: Sports a Field, I pose the question who is the

1332
01:24:30,760 --> 01:24:34,639
Speaker 1: true conservationist. Is it the man who buys a hunting

1333
01:24:34,760 --> 01:24:38,200
Speaker 1: rifle and pays an excise tax on that rifle that

1334
01:24:38,479 --> 01:24:44,240
Speaker 1: was passed in and which goes to help fund programs

1335
01:24:44,240 --> 01:24:47,559
Speaker 1: in his state agency. Or is it the man and

1336
01:24:47,600 --> 01:24:52,040
Speaker 1: who knows nothing of this tax or may not know

1337
01:24:52,160 --> 01:24:54,240
Speaker 1: anything of this tax. Or is it the man who

1338
01:24:54,280 --> 01:24:57,599
Speaker 1: lives in the heart of a of an urban center,

1339
01:24:59,400 --> 01:25:04,120
Speaker 1: but every year helps clean up a small stream, an

1340
01:25:04,120 --> 01:25:11,240
Speaker 1: activity that's organized by his local community. You know, each

1341
01:25:11,320 --> 01:25:16,439
Speaker 1: are doing something. One is trying to decide to do

1342
01:25:16,680 --> 01:25:21,120
Speaker 1: something small and active, mainly to go out and clean

1343
01:25:21,200 --> 01:25:27,599
Speaker 1: up that stream. So I see hunters who um are

1344
01:25:27,640 --> 01:25:32,120
Speaker 1: people who know something of natural history. They know something

1345
01:25:32,120 --> 01:25:34,519
Speaker 1: of the plants and the birds and the wildlife that

1346
01:25:34,560 --> 01:25:37,559
Speaker 1: are in areas. Many many people today don't know anything

1347
01:25:37,600 --> 01:25:42,639
Speaker 1: about this. Sharing the meat probably one of the most

1348
01:25:43,439 --> 01:25:48,840
Speaker 1: natural and most powerful things that hunters can do to

1349
01:25:49,080 --> 01:25:53,920
Speaker 1: show people the value and the benefit of this incredibly

1350
01:25:53,960 --> 01:26:00,360
Speaker 1: important ages old you know, future shaping activity that we

1351
01:26:00,439 --> 01:26:05,360
Speaker 1: call hunting. People get hung up on thinking, oh, I

1352
01:26:05,439 --> 01:26:09,360
Speaker 1: have to do something really big. No, they don't have

1353
01:26:09,400 --> 01:26:12,320
Speaker 1: to do something really big. They have to show that

1354
01:26:12,400 --> 01:26:16,599
Speaker 1: they care. And there are many, many, many different ways

1355
01:26:16,960 --> 01:26:24,360
Speaker 1: of showing that. Now, we also need to realize that

1356
01:26:24,479 --> 01:26:27,760
Speaker 1: not everything that is displayed by the hunting world is

1357
01:26:27,800 --> 01:26:38,520
Speaker 1: helping our cause. We have many activities and many photos

1358
01:26:38,600 --> 01:26:44,640
Speaker 1: and images and writings and many things that are not

1359
01:26:44,760 --> 01:26:49,400
Speaker 1: necessarily helping us in this regard at all. One of

1360
01:26:49,439 --> 01:26:52,160
Speaker 1: the things that the hunting community and hunters need to

1361
01:26:52,200 --> 01:26:55,240
Speaker 1: speak out about is when they see things that they

1362
01:26:55,280 --> 01:27:00,439
Speaker 1: don't think presents hunting in the right light. We are

1363
01:27:00,920 --> 01:27:06,479
Speaker 1: running out of time to be silent about these things.

1364
01:27:08,800 --> 01:27:11,240
Speaker 1: And if we do not stand for the right things

1365
01:27:11,240 --> 01:27:15,679
Speaker 1: in hunting, then we will be condemned. All hunters will

1366
01:27:15,680 --> 01:27:20,680
Speaker 1: be condemned by the wrong things. And this is a

1367
01:27:21,400 --> 01:27:23,600
Speaker 1: perhaps the topic for another day, but it is a

1368
01:27:23,640 --> 01:27:28,400
Speaker 1: big challenge for us. I'm sorry to go ahead, I

1369
01:27:28,439 --> 01:27:33,960
Speaker 1: was just gonna say that, no, you go okay um,

1370
01:27:34,000 --> 01:27:37,360
Speaker 1: And this kind of piggybacks of of what you just said.

1371
01:27:37,560 --> 01:27:40,240
Speaker 1: And and this is in regards to the hunting industry

1372
01:27:40,280 --> 01:27:43,280
Speaker 1: itself that you know, me and Marker in a way,

1373
01:27:43,280 --> 01:27:47,240
Speaker 1: a part of um, it's a it's a billion dollar industry,

1374
01:27:47,479 --> 01:27:50,920
Speaker 1: and a portion of that money goes to I guess,

1375
01:27:51,120 --> 01:27:55,439
Speaker 1: quote unquote hunting celebrities. And I see that. I feel

1376
01:27:55,479 --> 01:27:58,639
Speaker 1: that a majority of the hunting industry and the media

1377
01:27:58,880 --> 01:28:04,200
Speaker 1: content that's put out there is focused on score or

1378
01:28:04,320 --> 01:28:09,960
Speaker 1: antler size or um. You know, the giant, mature animal

1379
01:28:10,120 --> 01:28:12,080
Speaker 1: that it was taken at the prime of its life

1380
01:28:12,080 --> 01:28:16,760
Speaker 1: and it scored a certain certain way. Is that something

1381
01:28:16,840 --> 01:28:22,559
Speaker 1: that that you feel is hurting well, I think elements

1382
01:28:22,600 --> 01:28:25,439
Speaker 1: of that are yes. You know, if you go back

1383
01:28:25,479 --> 01:28:28,120
Speaker 1: and you read the hunting literature, for example, let's just

1384
01:28:28,160 --> 01:28:32,479
Speaker 1: stick to the writing for the moment, the hunting literature

1385
01:28:32,680 --> 01:28:38,000
Speaker 1: of you know, you know, late eighteen hundreds up till

1386
01:28:38,040 --> 01:28:42,639
Speaker 1: the middle of the twentieth century, uh, and some even

1387
01:28:42,680 --> 01:28:46,160
Speaker 1: beyond that, you will see a pattern where two things

1388
01:28:46,200 --> 01:28:52,280
Speaker 1: are emphasized in most of that writing. One is the

1389
01:28:52,360 --> 01:29:00,320
Speaker 1: experience the author writes about the landscape, the sense of freedom,

1390
01:29:00,360 --> 01:29:05,680
Speaker 1: the challenges, the ruggedness of the terrain, the storms that

1391
01:29:05,800 --> 01:29:10,200
Speaker 1: blew in, the unexpected problems with horses or with whatever

1392
01:29:10,320 --> 01:29:13,680
Speaker 1: might have been the case, ah, and the sense of

1393
01:29:13,720 --> 01:29:18,600
Speaker 1: exhilaration that they felt by simply being in pursuit and

1394
01:29:18,720 --> 01:29:23,280
Speaker 1: being in those places. The second thing that is emphasized

1395
01:29:23,360 --> 01:29:28,400
Speaker 1: in those early writings are the animals themselves, the hunted.

1396
01:29:29,920 --> 01:29:33,120
Speaker 1: They marvel at their beauty, They marvel at their capacities,

1397
01:29:33,160 --> 01:29:38,200
Speaker 1: their capacities to evade, their capacities to power through thick timber,

1398
01:29:38,320 --> 01:29:42,080
Speaker 1: their capacities to climb mountains, their capacities to run, to

1399
01:29:42,200 --> 01:29:45,439
Speaker 1: swim to you know, all of those kinds of things,

1400
01:29:45,439 --> 01:29:48,920
Speaker 1: to exist in those harsh conditions year round without shelter,

1401
01:29:49,040 --> 01:29:55,080
Speaker 1: et cetera. You shift to modernity, and no one can

1402
01:29:55,120 --> 01:30:01,400
Speaker 1: deny this, and the emphasis has shifted. The emphasis has

1403
01:30:01,439 --> 01:30:07,840
Speaker 1: shifted on to the hunter, extolling the hunter. We are

1404
01:30:07,880 --> 01:30:11,599
Speaker 1: the here now, we are the focus of the story.

1405
01:30:13,360 --> 01:30:18,400
Speaker 1: We are desperate to tell ourselves as or explodes ourselves

1406
01:30:18,439 --> 01:30:22,040
Speaker 1: as the focus of the story. And the second thing

1407
01:30:22,080 --> 01:30:28,439
Speaker 1: that's emphasized is the kill. That one second, if the

1408
01:30:28,479 --> 01:30:35,160
Speaker 1: shot is right in an odyssey of experience, the one

1409
01:30:35,280 --> 01:30:42,360
Speaker 1: second where that incredible creature dies and which the point

1410
01:30:42,360 --> 01:30:45,400
Speaker 1: at which so many of us have this conflicted feeling.

1411
01:30:46,439 --> 01:30:52,040
Speaker 1: That's what's exposed and focused upon. So we've gone from

1412
01:30:52,200 --> 01:30:57,799
Speaker 1: focusing on the experience and on the hunted, honoring them,

1413
01:30:57,880 --> 01:31:02,439
Speaker 1: to honoring the hunter with all his modern accouterments and

1414
01:31:02,760 --> 01:31:08,639
Speaker 1: technologies and the kill. Now, that is a broad thematic

1415
01:31:08,720 --> 01:31:13,360
Speaker 1: problem in much of the writing, in much of the television,

1416
01:31:14,960 --> 01:31:20,439
Speaker 1: much of the film that is out there. Now, I know,

1417
01:31:20,760 --> 01:31:26,160
Speaker 1: having been in that world and done much of that,

1418
01:31:26,160 --> 01:31:29,120
Speaker 1: that there is a huge percentage of hunter's out there

1419
01:31:30,400 --> 01:31:34,479
Speaker 1: who are dissatisfied with this, and that's why they don't

1420
01:31:34,479 --> 01:31:40,200
Speaker 1: watch those shows or read those articles. There are people

1421
01:31:40,200 --> 01:31:44,639
Speaker 1: who love it, and that's what they want, and that's

1422
01:31:44,680 --> 01:31:50,880
Speaker 1: what the industry delivers. But I will predict, indeed, I

1423
01:31:51,120 --> 01:31:55,200
Speaker 1: tell you that there is already a change blowing. There

1424
01:31:55,360 --> 01:32:00,759
Speaker 1: is the rise of some small number yet of different shows,

1425
01:32:02,120 --> 01:32:08,040
Speaker 1: of different writing styles, of different products, where people are

1426
01:32:08,120 --> 01:32:14,679
Speaker 1: beginning to return to what the hunt is really about. Now.

1427
01:32:15,040 --> 01:32:20,800
Speaker 1: It is a wealthy, a wealth generating business, and it

1428
01:32:20,880 --> 01:32:24,879
Speaker 1: is a business like any other, and that a business

1429
01:32:24,920 --> 01:32:29,599
Speaker 1: strives to, you know, create profit and to do well.

1430
01:32:31,880 --> 01:32:40,280
Speaker 1: The difference here is that we are six in the

1431
01:32:40,360 --> 01:32:45,559
Speaker 1: population of the United States and Canada and far less

1432
01:32:45,600 --> 01:32:48,080
Speaker 1: in many other parts of the world. Hunters only I'm

1433
01:32:48,120 --> 01:32:55,680
Speaker 1: talking about here, and how we are portrayed in the

1434
01:32:55,760 --> 01:33:04,519
Speaker 1: media influences how the public see is us, and we

1435
01:33:04,560 --> 01:33:08,760
Speaker 1: should ask ourselves do we think the public would be

1436
01:33:08,800 --> 01:33:14,479
Speaker 1: more likely to support an activity that talks about the

1437
01:33:14,520 --> 01:33:20,360
Speaker 1: experience in nature at marvels at the wild creature or

1438
01:33:20,479 --> 01:33:24,479
Speaker 1: one that talks about the hunter and the death of

1439
01:33:24,520 --> 01:33:28,160
Speaker 1: that wild creature, even though death takes place in both circumstances.

1440
01:33:28,200 --> 01:33:31,360
Speaker 1: Which of those do we really think most people in

1441
01:33:31,400 --> 01:33:35,280
Speaker 1: the public will be willing to support. I think it

1442
01:33:35,400 --> 01:33:39,680
Speaker 1: important if I if I might, Shane, UM an important

1443
01:33:39,720 --> 01:33:43,439
Speaker 1: thing to note, and maybe this is where you're going, UM,

1444
01:33:43,520 --> 01:33:46,519
Speaker 1: but studies, you know, there's there's been a number of

1445
01:33:46,520 --> 01:33:48,240
Speaker 1: surveys that I know you're aware of too, that that

1446
01:33:48,439 --> 01:33:50,880
Speaker 1: show what a lot of the public thinks about a

1447
01:33:50,920 --> 01:33:53,760
Speaker 1: lot of this UM. Like you mentioned earlier in this show,

1448
01:33:53,880 --> 01:33:56,240
Speaker 1: the fact that the majority of non hunters today do

1449
01:33:56,360 --> 01:34:00,280
Speaker 1: support are okay in general the idea of hunting when

1450
01:34:00,280 --> 01:34:03,280
Speaker 1: it's for reasons such as food, But when it comes

1451
01:34:03,400 --> 01:34:07,519
Speaker 1: to the reasons of hunting for quote unquote trophies, trophy hunting,

1452
01:34:08,040 --> 01:34:11,000
Speaker 1: that is markedly different. That is, the majority are not

1453
01:34:11,080 --> 01:34:13,479
Speaker 1: okay with that. UM and This goes back to a

1454
01:34:13,479 --> 01:34:15,280
Speaker 1: lot of things you just mentioned, the focus on the

1455
01:34:15,360 --> 01:34:18,559
Speaker 1: kill to Dan's point to focus on you know, big

1456
01:34:18,560 --> 01:34:20,920
Speaker 1: antlers and things like that. And I just want to

1457
01:34:21,720 --> 01:34:24,200
Speaker 1: I want to interject here with a question for you, Shane,

1458
01:34:24,240 --> 01:34:27,280
Speaker 1: because this is a topic that I personally wrestle with

1459
01:34:27,320 --> 01:34:29,879
Speaker 1: a lot, and I want to kind of I wanna

1460
01:34:30,000 --> 01:34:32,080
Speaker 1: this is a little bit cathartic for me. I'm gonna

1461
01:34:32,120 --> 01:34:34,280
Speaker 1: lay out my thoughts on this, and I want to

1462
01:34:34,320 --> 01:34:37,280
Speaker 1: hear from you if if it's crazy, if I'm wrong,

1463
01:34:37,640 --> 01:34:40,599
Speaker 1: if this makes sense. Um. When it comes to this

1464
01:34:40,640 --> 01:34:44,599
Speaker 1: idea of of trophy hunting, I have this this belief

1465
01:34:44,840 --> 01:34:47,040
Speaker 1: when I when I sit and think about, you know,

1466
01:34:47,080 --> 01:34:49,080
Speaker 1: as a hunter, what am I doing? Why am I

1467
01:34:49,200 --> 01:34:52,280
Speaker 1: doing it? And as part of what I do as

1468
01:34:52,320 --> 01:34:55,320
Speaker 1: a hunter, I'm a deer hunter, um, And as part

1469
01:34:55,360 --> 01:34:57,800
Speaker 1: of that, I hunt for mature dear. This has been

1470
01:34:57,800 --> 01:35:00,280
Speaker 1: a process I've gone through growing up from a younger person.

1471
01:35:00,360 --> 01:35:02,080
Speaker 1: First was just trying to figure out how to how

1472
01:35:02,160 --> 01:35:04,519
Speaker 1: hunt an animal. That's how can I kill a single animal?

1473
01:35:04,560 --> 01:35:06,240
Speaker 1: That it was how can I kill a buck? And

1474
01:35:06,240 --> 01:35:08,120
Speaker 1: then it was how can I have success killing? Then

1475
01:35:08,160 --> 01:35:10,800
Speaker 1: the next level and I've always pushed myself to to

1476
01:35:10,880 --> 01:35:13,639
Speaker 1: grow as a deer hunter, and now today that has

1477
01:35:13,720 --> 01:35:19,160
Speaker 1: led to me targeting primarily a certain type of white

1478
01:35:19,160 --> 01:35:21,479
Speaker 1: tailed deer. Some people would look at that and say

1479
01:35:21,520 --> 01:35:24,400
Speaker 1: that that is trophy hunting because I am targeting a

1480
01:35:24,479 --> 01:35:27,639
Speaker 1: certain deer that is potentially going to have larger antlers,

1481
01:35:27,680 --> 01:35:29,799
Speaker 1: going to be a bigger deer and older deer, et cetera.

1482
01:35:30,760 --> 01:35:35,640
Speaker 1: I do not identify, though, with trophy hunting. Personally. I

1483
01:35:35,680 --> 01:35:40,000
Speaker 1: think that that terminalogy is maybe the biggest issue. The

1484
01:35:40,040 --> 01:35:42,720
Speaker 1: idea of a making this deer just a trophy it's

1485
01:35:42,720 --> 01:35:45,240
Speaker 1: head on the wall. Um, That's not at all what

1486
01:35:45,280 --> 01:35:49,040
Speaker 1: I'm hunting for. That's not at all what I'm doing. Um.

1487
01:35:49,080 --> 01:35:52,520
Speaker 1: But I worried that the the assumption from the outside

1488
01:35:52,680 --> 01:35:54,360
Speaker 1: when they look at that, or when they hear someone

1489
01:35:54,439 --> 01:35:57,519
Speaker 1: say trophy hunting, is that someone's going out there just

1490
01:35:57,560 --> 01:35:59,599
Speaker 1: to kill a beautiful animal, just to put his antlers

1491
01:35:59,600 --> 01:36:02,479
Speaker 1: on the wall. So it looks like a big tough guy. Um.

1492
01:36:02,520 --> 01:36:05,240
Speaker 1: But from my own experiences, and I imagine from yours,

1493
01:36:05,240 --> 01:36:08,599
Speaker 1: to the majority of hunters, even those that do target

1494
01:36:08,680 --> 01:36:11,640
Speaker 1: a certain age of deer or size of deer or

1495
01:36:11,680 --> 01:36:14,680
Speaker 1: whatever animal might be, the majority of those people are

1496
01:36:14,720 --> 01:36:16,920
Speaker 1: not doing it just because they want to look like

1497
01:36:16,920 --> 01:36:18,679
Speaker 1: a tough guy and have a big animal on the wall.

1498
01:36:18,720 --> 01:36:21,400
Speaker 1: It's because of everything that goes into that experience. It's

1499
01:36:21,439 --> 01:36:25,439
Speaker 1: because you've come to love acquiring food for your family

1500
01:36:25,439 --> 01:36:27,840
Speaker 1: through the hunt, but you also have come to love

1501
01:36:27,920 --> 01:36:30,840
Speaker 1: the challenge and the experience of learning that animal, of

1502
01:36:30,960 --> 01:36:34,680
Speaker 1: understanding its biology, of understanding its behavior, it's habitats, of

1503
01:36:34,720 --> 01:36:38,519
Speaker 1: investing your time and energy into becoming part of that

1504
01:36:38,560 --> 01:36:41,680
Speaker 1: ecosystem and that habitat, and challenging yourself to not just

1505
01:36:42,120 --> 01:36:44,599
Speaker 1: you know, harvest or kill the first animal you see,

1506
01:36:44,640 --> 01:36:47,360
Speaker 1: but to push yourself to become a deeper part of

1507
01:36:47,400 --> 01:36:53,759
Speaker 1: that process and target a certain animal within that landscape. Um.

1508
01:36:53,840 --> 01:36:55,479
Speaker 1: And so when I look at when I try to

1509
01:36:55,520 --> 01:36:57,439
Speaker 1: justify this in my own head, as I think about

1510
01:36:57,439 --> 01:36:59,200
Speaker 1: why do I hunt, Why do I hunt? The way

1511
01:36:59,200 --> 01:37:02,840
Speaker 1: I hunt? Is that Okay, Um, these are the things

1512
01:37:02,920 --> 01:37:05,880
Speaker 1: that I think about and I wrestle with and and

1513
01:37:05,960 --> 01:37:07,800
Speaker 1: the only thing I can come down to in the

1514
01:37:07,880 --> 01:37:10,040
Speaker 1: end is that I just feel like to say that

1515
01:37:10,080 --> 01:37:14,720
Speaker 1: a trophy hunt that does not appropriately accurately describe what

1516
01:37:14,720 --> 01:37:17,519
Speaker 1: I'm doing. I'm I'm hunting for so many different reasons.

1517
01:37:17,840 --> 01:37:21,000
Speaker 1: And it's not at all about something on the wall

1518
01:37:21,040 --> 01:37:24,280
Speaker 1: at all. It's about everything else that goes into it. Um.

1519
01:37:24,320 --> 01:37:27,680
Speaker 1: And that is just one piece of it. I don't know.

1520
01:37:27,680 --> 01:37:30,240
Speaker 1: I'm rambling here and sharing all my kind of crazy

1521
01:37:30,240 --> 01:37:33,000
Speaker 1: inner thoughts on this. But how what are your thoughts

1522
01:37:33,040 --> 01:37:37,920
Speaker 1: on people and the ideas of hunting for large animals, this,

1523
01:37:37,920 --> 01:37:40,320
Speaker 1: this trophy hunting trend. What are your thoughts on the

1524
01:37:40,439 --> 01:37:43,400
Speaker 1: vocabulary of it? And as I know, and as you know,

1525
01:37:43,439 --> 01:37:45,960
Speaker 1: and as you pointed out, the greater public is not

1526
01:37:46,080 --> 01:37:47,960
Speaker 1: okay with the idea of it at least how the

1527
01:37:47,960 --> 01:37:51,000
Speaker 1: public assumes that that type of hunting is going on.

1528
01:37:51,360 --> 01:37:55,400
Speaker 1: What do we do about that too? Well, you've covered

1529
01:37:55,400 --> 01:37:57,759
Speaker 1: a lot of ground, but let me try to strike

1530
01:37:57,800 --> 01:38:01,960
Speaker 1: at the heart of it. Um. First of all, for

1531
01:38:01,960 --> 01:38:07,040
Speaker 1: forty years, not just recently, for forty years, we've been

1532
01:38:07,040 --> 01:38:10,360
Speaker 1: conducting surveys of one kind or another on the attitudes

1533
01:38:10,400 --> 01:38:13,479
Speaker 1: of the public towards hunting in the United States and

1534
01:38:13,520 --> 01:38:18,000
Speaker 1: other countries in the world. UM. And while the statistics

1535
01:38:18,000 --> 01:38:22,880
Speaker 1: have varied somewhat um, the general pattern has been that

1536
01:38:25,240 --> 01:38:28,920
Speaker 1: a vast majority currently about seventy eight percent or so

1537
01:38:29,200 --> 01:38:32,360
Speaker 1: of the public in the United States will say that

1538
01:38:32,439 --> 01:38:38,320
Speaker 1: they are in support of legal fair chase hunting for meat. Um,

1539
01:38:38,520 --> 01:38:42,599
Speaker 1: you asked the same question legal fair chase hunting for trophy,

1540
01:38:42,760 --> 01:38:50,240
Speaker 1: and that support drops to so. First of all, there

1541
01:38:50,320 --> 01:38:57,360
Speaker 1: is undeniable, long term evidence that the public has a

1542
01:38:57,400 --> 01:39:05,200
Speaker 1: dislike for what is termed trophy hunting. Now, the problem

1543
01:39:05,240 --> 01:39:09,720
Speaker 1: with the questions and the problem with the answers is

1544
01:39:09,760 --> 01:39:15,400
Speaker 1: that so much is resting upon the adjective, you know,

1545
01:39:15,520 --> 01:39:20,280
Speaker 1: the the trophy. You know that that so much is

1546
01:39:20,320 --> 01:39:25,439
Speaker 1: relying on that specific word. People have come to feel

1547
01:39:25,640 --> 01:39:32,479
Speaker 1: that what trophy hunting means is that a person pursues

1548
01:39:32,520 --> 01:39:35,479
Speaker 1: an animal. First of all, they want only a specific

1549
01:39:35,600 --> 01:39:41,720
Speaker 1: kind of animal, big, luxuriant horns or antlers, in large

1550
01:39:41,720 --> 01:39:47,080
Speaker 1: skull size, whatever, um, And that that's all they will take.

1551
01:39:47,320 --> 01:39:51,519
Speaker 1: But that the primary reason that they want that animal

1552
01:39:51,880 --> 01:39:55,560
Speaker 1: is just for that. In other words, they hunt just

1553
01:39:55,840 --> 01:39:59,720
Speaker 1: to acquire that head, that set of horns, that set

1554
01:39:59,720 --> 01:40:04,960
Speaker 1: of first. And there are all kinds of sort of

1555
01:40:05,000 --> 01:40:09,519
Speaker 1: subliminal or subconscious or add ons to that that sort

1556
01:40:09,520 --> 01:40:14,960
Speaker 1: of implies that the meat is unimportant, sort of implies

1557
01:40:16,000 --> 01:40:20,920
Speaker 1: that the experience is unimportant, sort of implies that the

1558
01:40:21,000 --> 01:40:25,240
Speaker 1: individual pursuing that is somehow you know, less sensitive to

1559
01:40:25,720 --> 01:40:29,360
Speaker 1: the whole issue of hunting generally than the person who

1560
01:40:29,439 --> 01:40:33,559
Speaker 1: is not in quotation marks a trophy hunter. As I've

1561
01:40:33,600 --> 01:40:40,639
Speaker 1: tried to explain in articles in various other forms, most

1562
01:40:41,560 --> 01:40:47,519
Speaker 1: people who pursue a specific quality of animal, whether that

1563
01:40:47,720 --> 01:40:50,880
Speaker 1: is in Africa or whether that is in North America,

1564
01:40:51,640 --> 01:40:54,720
Speaker 1: they pursue the animal for a multiple of reasons. They

1565
01:40:54,840 --> 01:40:59,800
Speaker 1: hunt for the same array of dimensions as anyone else.

1566
01:41:00,360 --> 01:41:03,800
Speaker 1: The experience, the hardship, the challenge, the joy of being

1567
01:41:03,800 --> 01:41:09,360
Speaker 1: in nature, the slowdown of time, the sudden loss of problems,

1568
01:41:09,479 --> 01:41:13,719
Speaker 1: the kind of the kind of emotional emancipation that comes

1569
01:41:13,760 --> 01:41:19,639
Speaker 1: from hunting. They in the vast majority of cases, they

1570
01:41:19,680 --> 01:41:24,000
Speaker 1: either directly use all the meat themselves or someone else does.

1571
01:41:25,280 --> 01:41:27,680
Speaker 1: But they also of course often take the pelt or

1572
01:41:27,720 --> 01:41:31,120
Speaker 1: the cape or the head. You know. In addition, which

1573
01:41:31,240 --> 01:41:33,640
Speaker 1: is not always the case with mountain meat hunters, we

1574
01:41:33,680 --> 01:41:38,920
Speaker 1: may not always take out the antlers, etcetera, um and um.

1575
01:41:40,080 --> 01:41:46,799
Speaker 1: They They therefore are operating very often as a selective hunter,

1576
01:41:47,960 --> 01:41:51,400
Speaker 1: or as a more selective hunter, because all hunters are

1577
01:41:51,479 --> 01:41:54,080
Speaker 1: selective to some extent, because they can only shoot certain

1578
01:41:54,680 --> 01:41:57,280
Speaker 1: ages and classes and sexes and so one, depending on

1579
01:41:57,320 --> 01:42:01,519
Speaker 1: the permit of their license. M many people who would

1580
01:42:01,520 --> 01:42:04,240
Speaker 1: be described as trophy hunters are simply taking that to

1581
01:42:04,280 --> 01:42:08,800
Speaker 1: another level, and they are not pursuing the animals just

1582
01:42:09,040 --> 01:42:15,280
Speaker 1: to have something on their wall. Secondly, if I travel

1583
01:42:15,360 --> 01:42:19,600
Speaker 1: to rural Newfoundland where I'm from, and I go to

1584
01:42:19,640 --> 01:42:22,920
Speaker 1: a small community and a fisherman is out, you know,

1585
01:42:23,400 --> 01:42:25,880
Speaker 1: tinkering with the engine of his boat, and I walk

1586
01:42:25,960 --> 01:42:29,840
Speaker 1: out on that wharf, and on my way out to

1587
01:42:29,920 --> 01:42:32,639
Speaker 1: the wharf, I passed what we call here his store,

1588
01:42:32,680 --> 01:42:35,040
Speaker 1: which means his shed where he keeps his nets and

1589
01:42:35,120 --> 01:42:38,680
Speaker 1: his twine and so on. And I look up on

1590
01:42:38,760 --> 01:42:42,000
Speaker 1: the side of that shed and there's a moose gull,

1591
01:42:43,640 --> 01:42:47,240
Speaker 1: no spectacular set of anlers, but whatever the size of

1592
01:42:47,240 --> 01:42:50,280
Speaker 1: the antlers, and it's it's hanging on that wall by

1593
01:42:50,360 --> 01:42:52,560
Speaker 1: a big eight inch nail driven through that white and

1594
01:42:52,640 --> 01:42:56,680
Speaker 1: skull on the side of that on the side of

1595
01:42:56,680 --> 01:42:59,599
Speaker 1: that shed. And I go to ann and I start

1596
01:42:59,640 --> 01:43:01,400
Speaker 1: talking this man, and then all of a sudden, I

1597
01:43:01,479 --> 01:43:04,400
Speaker 1: point to it and I say, well, where'd you get

1598
01:43:04,439 --> 01:43:07,960
Speaker 1: that one? And he'll immediately start to tell me his

1599
01:43:08,040 --> 01:43:12,040
Speaker 1: story about how he and his brother who may now

1600
01:43:12,080 --> 01:43:15,040
Speaker 1: be dead, or he and his son who has now

1601
01:43:15,080 --> 01:43:18,479
Speaker 1: moved away. You know, that was the last hunt they had,

1602
01:43:18,600 --> 01:43:20,360
Speaker 1: or a hunt they had, and he will tell me

1603
01:43:20,400 --> 01:43:24,120
Speaker 1: about all the little things that happened during that particular hunt.

1604
01:43:25,960 --> 01:43:29,080
Speaker 1: And all the while he's looking at this thing on

1605
01:43:29,160 --> 01:43:32,120
Speaker 1: his on his shed that's been whitened by sea salt

1606
01:43:32,160 --> 01:43:38,960
Speaker 1: and wind and ice. Now he hasn't got the cape

1607
01:43:40,080 --> 01:43:44,880
Speaker 1: and glass eyes, and it's not mounted in some expensive

1608
01:43:44,920 --> 01:43:50,400
Speaker 1: home somewhere, because he can at all relate to that.

1609
01:43:52,120 --> 01:43:55,080
Speaker 1: But what he can relate to is the fact that

1610
01:43:55,120 --> 01:44:00,360
Speaker 1: he wanted almost a momento. He wanted something to mind

1611
01:44:00,479 --> 01:44:04,400
Speaker 1: him of that hunt. And more importantly, I think he

1612
01:44:04,479 --> 01:44:07,599
Speaker 1: wanted something so that when he told that story, as

1613
01:44:07,640 --> 01:44:10,640
Speaker 1: he's telling it to me, I would know that I

1614
01:44:10,640 --> 01:44:16,960
Speaker 1: should believe him because the proof was there. So I

1615
01:44:17,000 --> 01:44:23,400
Speaker 1: think trophy hunting is terribly misunderstood. I am not going

1616
01:44:23,479 --> 01:44:25,799
Speaker 1: to tell you that there aren't people who only want

1617
01:44:25,880 --> 01:44:30,360
Speaker 1: to have the head and who only want to aggrandize themselves.

1618
01:44:30,360 --> 01:44:33,280
Speaker 1: There are some hunters like that, of course, I think

1619
01:44:33,320 --> 01:44:38,799
Speaker 1: they're probably a minority. But I think the vast majority

1620
01:44:38,800 --> 01:44:42,040
Speaker 1: of people who only want to take a mature ball

1621
01:44:42,160 --> 01:44:44,679
Speaker 1: or decide they're only going to take a better animal

1622
01:44:44,800 --> 01:44:48,120
Speaker 1: in the sense of larger antlers and larger body size

1623
01:44:48,200 --> 01:44:51,960
Speaker 1: or something of that nature than they took previously. I

1624
01:44:52,000 --> 01:44:57,400
Speaker 1: think they're just limiting themselves and probing deeper and deeper

1625
01:44:57,439 --> 01:45:01,439
Speaker 1: into the experience of hunting and prolonging, if you will,

1626
01:45:01,720 --> 01:45:08,320
Speaker 1: the chase, which of course is ultimately what drives us

1627
01:45:08,920 --> 01:45:12,760
Speaker 1: in that experience. It is not to kill, It is

1628
01:45:12,800 --> 01:45:19,800
Speaker 1: the chase. Let me tell you when Native Americans we're

1629
01:45:19,840 --> 01:45:26,439
Speaker 1: finally defeated after the longest war in American history with

1630
01:45:26,640 --> 01:45:33,200
Speaker 1: their flint arrows against gatling guns. It took thirty years,

1631
01:45:34,320 --> 01:45:38,160
Speaker 1: largest war in the nation's history. When they were finally

1632
01:45:38,240 --> 01:45:44,320
Speaker 1: defeated and broken and forced to live near the forts

1633
01:45:44,320 --> 01:45:52,640
Speaker 1: and on the precursors to the reservations, the Department of

1634
01:45:52,680 --> 01:45:57,439
Speaker 1: Indian Affairs or whatever the office was called, over various

1635
01:45:57,479 --> 01:46:02,240
Speaker 1: periods of time, gave them, of course, allocations of cows,

1636
01:46:02,720 --> 01:46:07,200
Speaker 1: beef cattle. Periodically they would be given beef, and they

1637
01:46:07,240 --> 01:46:09,280
Speaker 1: were supposed to be given a lot more of everything,

1638
01:46:09,320 --> 01:46:15,960
Speaker 1: of course, but periodically the cows would arrive. But what

1639
01:46:16,000 --> 01:46:18,840
Speaker 1: would happen when the cows arrived was not that they

1640
01:46:18,840 --> 01:46:23,080
Speaker 1: would be brought in butchered, or they would be brought

1641
01:46:23,120 --> 01:46:25,680
Speaker 1: in and brought in a corral and simply shot and

1642
01:46:25,680 --> 01:46:34,839
Speaker 1: then butchered. No, the Native Americans, these these incredible hunters,

1643
01:46:34,880 --> 01:46:38,280
Speaker 1: these these these woodsmen of such talent that there's not

1644
01:46:38,400 --> 01:46:42,760
Speaker 1: one of us could stand in their shadow. You know,

1645
01:46:43,520 --> 01:46:49,080
Speaker 1: we couldn't, you know, we would be like infants next

1646
01:46:49,160 --> 01:46:52,360
Speaker 1: to them, Even the best of the hunters out there.

1647
01:46:54,360 --> 01:46:58,040
Speaker 1: They would mount their ponies or any horse at the

1648
01:46:58,120 --> 01:47:01,920
Speaker 1: cavalry and that ford would give m and they would

1649
01:47:02,000 --> 01:47:10,559
Speaker 1: chase those cows and they would kill them. Historic fact. Mhm.

1650
01:47:12,080 --> 01:47:18,000
Speaker 1: It's that experience in its totality that is being sought.

1651
01:47:19,520 --> 01:47:24,160
Speaker 1: But of course the trophy hunter brings back something special,

1652
01:47:24,280 --> 01:47:31,080
Speaker 1: but all of us bring back a momento, photographs, maybe

1653
01:47:31,080 --> 01:47:35,719
Speaker 1: a piece of hair, maybe a piece of antler, maybe

1654
01:47:35,720 --> 01:47:41,439
Speaker 1: a jaw bone, maybe the skull. In my study, I

1655
01:47:41,560 --> 01:47:44,240
Speaker 1: have the whitened skull of the tiny little white tail

1656
01:47:44,320 --> 01:47:48,439
Speaker 1: buck that I harvested in British Columbia a number of

1657
01:47:48,520 --> 01:47:53,719
Speaker 1: years ago. It's a beautiful thing, beautifully whitened for me, clean,

1658
01:47:54,840 --> 01:48:00,720
Speaker 1: little tiny little spike, you know, five inches maybe, And

1659
01:48:01,400 --> 01:48:06,840
Speaker 1: that is my trophy, that is my remembrance, that is

1660
01:48:06,920 --> 01:48:12,160
Speaker 1: my my momento. That is the that is what I

1661
01:48:12,200 --> 01:48:15,800
Speaker 1: can point to if you come into my study and

1662
01:48:15,880 --> 01:48:18,599
Speaker 1: I want to tell you about the experience I had

1663
01:48:19,960 --> 01:48:28,240
Speaker 1: in British Columbia. So unfortunately, for trophy hunting, the word

1664
01:48:29,240 --> 01:48:34,760
Speaker 1: is filled, it's pregnant with all of this. I have

1665
01:48:34,920 --> 01:48:41,160
Speaker 1: for many, many many years argued and advised the hunting

1666
01:48:41,200 --> 01:48:46,320
Speaker 1: movement and all the big hunting organizations. I've spoken to

1667
01:48:46,360 --> 01:48:55,040
Speaker 1: most of them to eliminate all adjectives. No trophy hunting,

1668
01:48:57,000 --> 01:49:01,960
Speaker 1: no meat hunting, no sport hunting, which, by the way,

1669
01:49:02,080 --> 01:49:05,120
Speaker 1: is similar to trophy If you ask people in the

1670
01:49:05,160 --> 01:49:12,120
Speaker 1: public about sport hunting, support drops by. We should do

1671
01:49:12,160 --> 01:49:16,160
Speaker 1: away with all adjectives. We should simply call it what

1672
01:49:16,200 --> 01:49:23,240
Speaker 1: it is, hunting, because it's the totality of the experience

1673
01:49:23,600 --> 01:49:28,400
Speaker 1: that matters. And what is happening is that there is

1674
01:49:28,439 --> 01:49:38,479
Speaker 1: a world why movement coalescing against trophy hunting. It is

1675
01:49:38,520 --> 01:49:43,240
Speaker 1: the most intense antagonism towards hunting the world has ever seen.

1676
01:49:43,760 --> 01:49:46,240
Speaker 1: I know, I'm in this business. This is what I do,

1677
01:49:48,560 --> 01:49:51,559
Speaker 1: and much of it is based on those kinds of

1678
01:49:51,600 --> 01:49:56,040
Speaker 1: misunderstandings that you have just alluded to in opening up

1679
01:49:56,080 --> 01:50:00,439
Speaker 1: about your personal approach to hunting, and so on and

1680
01:50:00,439 --> 01:50:09,439
Speaker 1: so forth. So unfortunately we have now embedded these terms.

1681
01:50:11,080 --> 01:50:15,719
Speaker 1: The reason we have the term sport hunting is because

1682
01:50:15,720 --> 01:50:20,519
Speaker 1: European writers convinced us here in America that we should

1683
01:50:20,560 --> 01:50:26,200
Speaker 1: adopt fair chase, that we should be sporting in our hunting,

1684
01:50:27,439 --> 01:50:30,840
Speaker 1: never taking advantage of the animal in an unfair way.

1685
01:50:32,560 --> 01:50:36,679
Speaker 1: And that's where the term sport hunting game from. Instead

1686
01:50:36,720 --> 01:50:40,479
Speaker 1: of being now something that edifies the hunter for doing

1687
01:50:40,520 --> 01:50:44,559
Speaker 1: it the right way, it's now something that causes a

1688
01:50:44,560 --> 01:50:48,880
Speaker 1: lot of people to oppose. Hunting. Trophy is exactly the

1689
01:50:48,920 --> 01:50:53,479
Speaker 1: same way, only more extreme. And now that we have

1690
01:50:53,600 --> 01:50:59,000
Speaker 1: the terms, we are left to deal with them. And

1691
01:50:59,080 --> 01:51:00,960
Speaker 1: the only way that I see to deal with them,

1692
01:51:00,960 --> 01:51:05,040
Speaker 1: seeing people are not prepared to drop them, which they should,

1693
01:51:06,320 --> 01:51:08,800
Speaker 1: is that we have to explain what a trophy means.

1694
01:51:09,800 --> 01:51:14,639
Speaker 1: And then there were larger bucks in the area where

1695
01:51:14,640 --> 01:51:21,000
Speaker 1: I hunted this white tail, but that moment came and

1696
01:51:21,080 --> 01:51:24,400
Speaker 1: I took the life of that animal. I have been

1697
01:51:24,439 --> 01:51:27,360
Speaker 1: in circumstances where I have had the cross hears on

1698
01:51:28,400 --> 01:51:33,240
Speaker 1: great moose and black bear and other beasts that for

1699
01:51:33,280 --> 01:51:37,320
Speaker 1: some reason I did not squeeze the trigger. I cannot

1700
01:51:37,320 --> 01:51:43,120
Speaker 1: really tell you why except for some reason I didn't

1701
01:51:43,120 --> 01:51:48,600
Speaker 1: want to that little buck. I was very happy to

1702
01:51:48,640 --> 01:51:53,960
Speaker 1: have him, and that is my trophy, just like the

1703
01:51:54,000 --> 01:52:00,439
Speaker 1: fisherman in Newfoundland has his you know, fractured and broken,

1704
01:52:00,880 --> 01:52:05,519
Speaker 1: whitened skull, nailed with a rusty aid in spike to

1705
01:52:05,640 --> 01:52:09,800
Speaker 1: his shed at the head of a wharf. But we

1706
01:52:09,880 --> 01:52:12,240
Speaker 1: don't have all less time do we to explain to

1707
01:52:12,320 --> 01:52:17,160
Speaker 1: every single person who's answering a question in a survey,

1708
01:52:17,320 --> 01:52:22,200
Speaker 1: to explain this to them. And instead of that, they

1709
01:52:22,240 --> 01:52:25,439
Speaker 1: look at our magazines, and they look at a lot

1710
01:52:25,439 --> 01:52:30,040
Speaker 1: of our shows, and they see all of those misconceptions reinforced.

1711
01:52:32,920 --> 01:52:39,599
Speaker 1: And I believe that the hunting community needs to take

1712
01:52:39,640 --> 01:52:43,400
Speaker 1: all this very seriously and to start turning this around.

1713
01:52:44,960 --> 01:52:47,639
Speaker 1: Any young boy or girl who goes on their first hunt,

1714
01:52:47,760 --> 01:52:52,639
Speaker 1: or their first fishing trip, or their first mushroom gathering trip,

1715
01:52:52,800 --> 01:52:56,800
Speaker 1: or their first berry picking trip, they want to come

1716
01:52:56,840 --> 01:52:59,120
Speaker 1: back and show the people they care for and who

1717
01:52:59,160 --> 01:53:03,200
Speaker 1: care for them what they've accomplished. Isn't that true? See

1718
01:53:03,240 --> 01:53:06,040
Speaker 1: how many berries I've picked? See how see see see

1719
01:53:06,040 --> 01:53:08,720
Speaker 1: the fish I caught? See that You know, this is

1720
01:53:08,760 --> 01:53:11,880
Speaker 1: where it comes from. Here's the proof of what I

1721
01:53:11,920 --> 01:53:17,200
Speaker 1: could do, because anybody who could harvest wild food throughout

1722
01:53:17,280 --> 01:53:23,120
Speaker 1: human evolution and history was always admired. All of these

1723
01:53:23,160 --> 01:53:27,920
Speaker 1: modern athletes that we now pay these enormous salaries too.

1724
01:53:28,200 --> 01:53:30,800
Speaker 1: And people say, oh, we're paying them too much. I

1725
01:53:30,920 --> 01:53:36,040
Speaker 1: say to them, we will pay professional athletes as much

1726
01:53:36,160 --> 01:53:40,559
Speaker 1: money as the economy can bear. And if they're making

1727
01:53:40,600 --> 01:53:44,200
Speaker 1: twenty million dollars now, is an an absolute top hockey

1728
01:53:44,280 --> 01:53:49,160
Speaker 1: player or baseball player, whatever may be. Thirty years from now,

1729
01:53:49,200 --> 01:53:52,360
Speaker 1: if the world economy continues to grow, we'll be paying

1730
01:53:52,360 --> 01:53:58,200
Speaker 1: the forty million. And the reason is that those individuals

1731
01:53:59,240 --> 01:54:08,840
Speaker 1: gifted with strength, speed, handy co ordination, superior vision, superior reflex,

1732
01:54:10,000 --> 01:54:14,640
Speaker 1: all of those kinds of things were the same individuals

1733
01:54:14,640 --> 01:54:20,360
Speaker 1: who became the extraordinary hunters of the past. And those

1734
01:54:20,400 --> 01:54:25,160
Speaker 1: extraordinary physical talents were in fact honed and shaped in

1735
01:54:25,200 --> 01:54:29,519
Speaker 1: the hunting experience. We wouldn't have needed all of that

1736
01:54:30,560 --> 01:54:35,080
Speaker 1: had we stayed as leaf eaters, but we had to

1737
01:54:35,120 --> 01:54:39,600
Speaker 1: have it once we embarked on this hunting podyssey. So

1738
01:54:39,720 --> 01:54:45,480
Speaker 1: you think of the quarterback. He steps back with that ball,

1739
01:54:47,560 --> 01:54:53,040
Speaker 1: he looks across what a grassy field? He looks upon

1740
01:54:53,240 --> 01:54:57,440
Speaker 1: a grassy field, and in his hand there is a projectile,

1741
01:54:58,080 --> 01:55:04,640
Speaker 1: a spear, a rock, And he knows his power. He

1742
01:55:04,720 --> 01:55:07,160
Speaker 1: knows the strength of his upper body, the balance of

1743
01:55:07,200 --> 01:55:12,720
Speaker 1: his legs. He knows the wind, he knows the distance

1744
01:55:14,520 --> 01:55:18,640
Speaker 1: He is watching. This herd of animals chaotically moved before him,

1745
01:55:18,800 --> 01:55:24,080
Speaker 1: probably disturbed by him exposing himself too soon, or they

1746
01:55:24,160 --> 01:55:27,000
Speaker 1: got his scent as the wind changed, and all of

1747
01:55:27,000 --> 01:55:31,240
Speaker 1: a sudden they are running helter skelter. He knows if

1748
01:55:31,240 --> 01:55:34,720
Speaker 1: he has any chance at all the harvest one he

1749
01:55:34,840 --> 01:55:39,760
Speaker 1: has to pick out a single animal, and then he

1750
01:55:39,800 --> 01:55:44,320
Speaker 1: has to figure out where that animal will go, and

1751
01:55:44,400 --> 01:55:48,960
Speaker 1: over the distance that he must throw that projectile, where

1752
01:55:49,080 --> 01:55:55,920
Speaker 1: that animal will be when contact is made. The only

1753
01:55:55,960 --> 01:56:03,480
Speaker 1: reason we have quarterbacks is because we hunt it. And

1754
01:56:03,600 --> 01:56:10,400
Speaker 1: that is why we'll pay the great ones any amount

1755
01:56:10,480 --> 01:56:14,480
Speaker 1: of money that's possible, and that is why the rest

1756
01:56:14,520 --> 01:56:21,200
Speaker 1: of us will adore them, stand in awe of them,

1757
01:56:21,240 --> 01:56:28,120
Speaker 1: packed stadiums to see them, because in the past they

1758
01:56:28,160 --> 01:56:33,000
Speaker 1: were the ones who were responsible for feeding us, for

1759
01:56:33,160 --> 01:56:38,280
Speaker 1: feeding our children, for maintaining our communities, not only through hunting,

1760
01:56:38,320 --> 01:56:44,440
Speaker 1: of course, but also in warfare when necessary. And that

1761
01:56:44,640 --> 01:56:50,360
Speaker 1: is the legacies that run through all of this hunting experience.

1762
01:56:51,520 --> 01:56:58,040
Speaker 1: It is too bad that most people cannot have time

1763
01:56:58,200 --> 01:57:04,760
Speaker 1: to reflect on all of these things. Um, but that's

1764
01:57:04,800 --> 01:57:10,880
Speaker 1: our job. Now. There is a rising empathy for animals worldwide.

1765
01:57:12,400 --> 01:57:15,080
Speaker 1: Everywhere in the world, people are starting to care in

1766
01:57:15,200 --> 01:57:20,280
Speaker 1: fact and speak more about animals and why we should

1767
01:57:20,400 --> 01:57:22,840
Speaker 1: keep them and protect them from harm and so on

1768
01:57:22,920 --> 01:57:27,720
Speaker 1: and so forth. That same empathy, to go back to

1769
01:57:27,760 --> 01:57:32,919
Speaker 1: the beginning of this, was what drove those great artists

1770
01:57:33,040 --> 01:57:39,080
Speaker 1: thirty thousand years ago to create that extraordinary art. At

1771
01:57:39,080 --> 01:57:42,400
Speaker 1: the same time that our hunting talents were being honed

1772
01:57:43,840 --> 01:57:48,200
Speaker 1: and we felt such exhilaration and passion for that activity

1773
01:57:48,600 --> 01:57:54,480
Speaker 1: and need for it, we were developing this fascination and yes,

1774
01:57:55,080 --> 01:58:01,600
Speaker 1: empathy for these wild creatures. In the modern world, we

1775
01:58:01,760 --> 01:58:06,640
Speaker 1: hunt less, fewer of us do. We're moving further and

1776
01:58:06,720 --> 01:58:11,360
Speaker 1: further away from that part of our past existence. And

1777
01:58:11,440 --> 01:58:14,280
Speaker 1: what is rising to the surface is the other part,

1778
01:58:15,680 --> 01:58:20,400
Speaker 1: this empathy for wildlife, and we as hunters are going

1779
01:58:20,440 --> 01:58:24,840
Speaker 1: to have to show that it is possible to have

1780
01:58:24,960 --> 01:58:31,120
Speaker 1: both or we will lose what we have over time

1781
01:58:33,240 --> 01:58:37,360
Speaker 1: to that point, Shane, you know, we we've talked about

1782
01:58:37,560 --> 01:58:39,720
Speaker 1: the way the way I see this at least if

1783
01:58:40,040 --> 01:58:44,120
Speaker 1: we look at the imperatives going to the future to

1784
01:58:44,160 --> 01:58:50,640
Speaker 1: continue both productive landscapes and habitats and wildlife and our

1785
01:58:50,680 --> 01:58:54,000
Speaker 1: ability to hunt them. You know, no one, we need to,

1786
01:58:54,240 --> 01:58:57,680
Speaker 1: as hunters and conservationists do what we can to protect

1787
01:58:57,680 --> 01:58:59,800
Speaker 1: those animals and places. And we talked a little bit

1788
01:59:00,000 --> 01:59:03,480
Speaker 1: earlier about how we can do that. Now the last

1789
01:59:03,520 --> 01:59:06,560
Speaker 1: you know, twenty minutes or so, we've talked about the

1790
01:59:07,120 --> 01:59:11,280
Speaker 1: terminology and how we talk about hunting, how others view hunting,

1791
01:59:11,400 --> 01:59:15,120
Speaker 1: and the importance of public perception. I mean, I think,

1792
01:59:15,120 --> 01:59:18,240
Speaker 1: as we mentioned earlier, we are a very very small

1793
01:59:18,280 --> 01:59:20,400
Speaker 1: minority in the big scheme of things, and if ever

1794
01:59:20,480 --> 01:59:24,000
Speaker 1: the greater non hunting public decided that what we do

1795
01:59:24,080 --> 01:59:28,440
Speaker 1: is unacceptable, it would be done. So the second part

1796
01:59:28,520 --> 01:59:32,640
Speaker 1: to preserving our heritage and our wild places and animals

1797
01:59:32,840 --> 01:59:38,280
Speaker 1: is being able to effectively win that communication battle of

1798
01:59:38,360 --> 01:59:42,000
Speaker 1: sorts and effectively helping non hunters understand what we do

1799
01:59:42,160 --> 01:59:45,360
Speaker 1: and why, Like you mentioned, empathy for animals and hunting

1800
01:59:45,400 --> 01:59:48,240
Speaker 1: of animals can coexist and why they are in many

1801
01:59:48,280 --> 01:59:51,840
Speaker 1: cases one the same um. You touched on this a

1802
01:59:51,880 --> 01:59:54,480
Speaker 1: little bit, but I'd love you to expand just a

1803
01:59:54,520 --> 01:59:58,920
Speaker 1: touch more on how we as hunters can better communicate

1804
01:59:59,000 --> 02:00:02,400
Speaker 1: with non hunters about these topics, whether it be someone

1805
02:00:02,480 --> 02:00:05,720
Speaker 1: who is attacking you about trophy hunting in Africa and

1806
02:00:05,720 --> 02:00:07,800
Speaker 1: the seats of the line debate, or whether it is

1807
02:00:07,840 --> 02:00:10,920
Speaker 1: simply why do you kill a beautiful animal that you

1808
02:00:10,960 --> 02:00:13,680
Speaker 1: say you love? Um, I know that I think all hunters,

1809
02:00:13,680 --> 02:00:17,760
Speaker 1: myself included, think about this a lot and want to

1810
02:00:17,760 --> 02:00:20,920
Speaker 1: make sure we effectively communicate it. But could you share

1811
02:00:21,000 --> 02:00:23,320
Speaker 1: this some of your basic advice on how to better

1812
02:00:23,360 --> 02:00:27,960
Speaker 1: communicate to the public to non hunters about this way

1813
02:00:28,000 --> 02:00:33,880
Speaker 1: of life that we cherish so much. Hunting is a

1814
02:00:33,880 --> 02:00:38,200
Speaker 1: complicated business and it's very difficult to explain to somebody

1815
02:00:38,200 --> 02:00:40,520
Speaker 1: who hasn't done it all of the things that come

1816
02:00:40,560 --> 02:00:47,280
Speaker 1: from it. But the reason there is as much support

1817
02:00:47,360 --> 02:00:49,880
Speaker 1: for hunting as there is is where we have to

1818
02:00:49,960 --> 02:00:58,760
Speaker 1: start this. Uh, the answer to this question. If we

1819
02:00:58,840 --> 02:01:03,280
Speaker 1: had not somehow, over fairly long periods of time generations

1820
02:01:05,400 --> 02:01:09,480
Speaker 1: convince the public that we were interested in more than

1821
02:01:09,560 --> 02:01:17,520
Speaker 1: simply a violent excursion to kill something, we would currently

1822
02:01:17,560 --> 02:01:23,920
Speaker 1: not have the support that we have in the general public. So,

1823
02:01:24,000 --> 02:01:31,040
Speaker 1: first of all, we've all collectively, by accident or by

1824
02:01:31,120 --> 02:01:35,040
Speaker 1: deliberate action. We have done some things right, haven't we.

1825
02:01:37,920 --> 02:01:40,360
Speaker 1: The second part of the answer to that question is

1826
02:01:41,840 --> 02:01:44,560
Speaker 1: that a lot of people in society are not going

1827
02:01:44,640 --> 02:01:49,520
Speaker 1: to deeply ponder this question. They are going to react

1828
02:01:51,920 --> 02:01:59,160
Speaker 1: relatively superficially to either become pro or anti or relatively

1829
02:01:59,200 --> 02:02:07,839
Speaker 1: indifferent unting. We see, um a rising challenge to hunting.

1830
02:02:08,040 --> 02:02:13,520
Speaker 1: There is no doubt about that. And we also know

1831
02:02:13,800 --> 02:02:17,280
Speaker 1: that that has been happening over the last few decades.

1832
02:02:20,200 --> 02:02:23,720
Speaker 1: And some people say and that what we need to

1833
02:02:23,760 --> 02:02:27,040
Speaker 1: do is to mount a very strong sort of public

1834
02:02:27,080 --> 02:02:31,360
Speaker 1: relations campaign that show the best of what we do.

1835
02:02:33,800 --> 02:02:37,640
Speaker 1: And I have been asked by some organizations to help

1836
02:02:37,720 --> 02:02:46,960
Speaker 1: fashion that. And my response to that is, excuse me that, Um,

1837
02:02:47,000 --> 02:02:55,040
Speaker 1: we already have a public relations campaign. It's five television shows,

1838
02:02:57,040 --> 02:03:04,040
Speaker 1: it's hundreds of magazines, it's thousands of websites, it's gazillions

1839
02:03:04,040 --> 02:03:10,080
Speaker 1: of advertisements, and on and on and on that collectively

1840
02:03:10,600 --> 02:03:15,000
Speaker 1: cost what fifty million, eight million million, I don't know,

1841
02:03:16,320 --> 02:03:20,760
Speaker 1: but a lot of money, and the vast majority of

1842
02:03:20,840 --> 02:03:26,960
Speaker 1: what's being articulated in those forums, I don't think it's

1843
02:03:26,960 --> 02:03:30,480
Speaker 1: going to win the day for us. So that's a

1844
02:03:30,560 --> 02:03:38,040
Speaker 1: very important issue because thoughtful hunters and those concerned about

1845
02:03:38,040 --> 02:03:43,760
Speaker 1: the future, concerned about their children's opportunities, concerned about what

1846
02:03:43,840 --> 02:03:46,360
Speaker 1: the loss of hunting might mean for the conservation of

1847
02:03:46,400 --> 02:03:50,840
Speaker 1: wildlife in Africa, over here, or anywhere else. You know,

1848
02:03:50,920 --> 02:03:55,720
Speaker 1: they want to find a way to communicate that does

1849
02:03:55,760 --> 02:04:02,040
Speaker 1: not alienate the public. The first thing I would say

1850
02:04:02,040 --> 02:04:09,840
Speaker 1: is that a conversation has to begin with the idea

1851
02:04:09,840 --> 02:04:17,680
Speaker 1: of what is natural. Um most people will when they

1852
02:04:17,720 --> 02:04:19,760
Speaker 1: ask a question, why do you do it? Or how

1853
02:04:19,800 --> 02:04:23,880
Speaker 1: can you do it? We all know that the vast

1854
02:04:23,920 --> 02:04:28,040
Speaker 1: majority of people in the United States, Canada, indeed around

1855
02:04:28,080 --> 02:04:33,320
Speaker 1: the world, will when they have the opportunity, and in

1856
02:04:33,360 --> 02:04:41,880
Speaker 1: many cases mostly do eat meat. And that meat has

1857
02:04:41,960 --> 02:04:46,640
Speaker 1: to have come through any number of processes, but all

1858
02:04:46,720 --> 02:04:51,800
Speaker 1: of them and an animal death. So the first thing

1859
02:04:51,840 --> 02:04:55,400
Speaker 1: I think in explaining why we hunt is to explain

1860
02:04:55,680 --> 02:05:00,200
Speaker 1: that we're all sharing in animal death. What that we

1861
02:05:01,320 --> 02:05:06,880
Speaker 1: release the arrow, pull the trigger, set the hook, or

1862
02:05:06,920 --> 02:05:10,480
Speaker 1: simply go to the grocery store and buy the beast

1863
02:05:11,280 --> 02:05:17,320
Speaker 1: dismembered and packaged. I think that's a really important point

1864
02:05:17,360 --> 02:05:24,360
Speaker 1: to make. Most people will say, yes, I do eat meat,

1865
02:05:24,880 --> 02:05:29,960
Speaker 1: but you know, I can't see how you can kill

1866
02:05:30,000 --> 02:05:35,000
Speaker 1: an animal because somehow that means I haven't really done it,

1867
02:05:35,600 --> 02:05:40,200
Speaker 1: I have just eaten it. My response to that is,

1868
02:05:41,000 --> 02:05:45,720
Speaker 1: you're right, you haven't killed the animal, you have just

1869
02:05:45,880 --> 02:05:51,200
Speaker 1: eaten it. But I have decided to take the responsibility

1870
02:05:51,280 --> 02:05:57,640
Speaker 1: for that. I know an animal dies when I if

1871
02:05:57,680 --> 02:06:00,440
Speaker 1: I have ordered a steak in a steakhouse, or shrimp

1872
02:06:00,440 --> 02:06:04,160
Speaker 1: in a restaurant, or cod fish in a fish shop,

1873
02:06:05,240 --> 02:06:08,800
Speaker 1: I know an animal that lived, breathe reproduced, cared for

1874
02:06:08,840 --> 02:06:13,520
Speaker 1: its young, had intelligence, died for me to require it,

1875
02:06:16,120 --> 02:06:20,360
Speaker 1: I feel the really responsible thing is for me to

1876
02:06:20,440 --> 02:06:22,360
Speaker 1: be a part of that as much as I can,

1877
02:06:24,200 --> 02:06:29,440
Speaker 1: and to witness the natural process that brings this food

1878
02:06:29,480 --> 02:06:35,000
Speaker 1: to me. I'm not saying it's easy. I'm not saying

1879
02:06:35,000 --> 02:06:39,440
Speaker 1: it's enjoyable in the sense that you might think. But

1880
02:06:39,560 --> 02:06:42,640
Speaker 1: I have discovered that in taking responsible ability for it,

1881
02:06:43,440 --> 02:06:47,200
Speaker 1: that I feel better. I feel I've done the right thing.

1882
02:06:49,480 --> 02:06:54,760
Speaker 1: I also feel it in my hunting I do end

1883
02:06:54,760 --> 02:06:58,920
Speaker 1: an animal's life, and that animal, as I have said

1884
02:06:58,920 --> 02:07:02,280
Speaker 1: too many hunting audioces, and this makes many of them

1885
02:07:02,360 --> 02:07:06,960
Speaker 1: very uncomfortable. I know that that animal feels the bullet

1886
02:07:07,040 --> 02:07:11,400
Speaker 1: the same as I would, so I try to be

1887
02:07:11,520 --> 02:07:17,280
Speaker 1: very careful about how that animal dies. But when he

1888
02:07:17,360 --> 02:07:21,040
Speaker 1: does or she does die, I bring to an end

1889
02:07:21,080 --> 02:07:26,440
Speaker 1: of life that was full, a life that was free

1890
02:07:26,920 --> 02:07:34,080
Speaker 1: and wild and lived to the fullest extent possible. And

1891
02:07:34,160 --> 02:07:38,440
Speaker 1: that only in that one second, if it's perfect, or

1892
02:07:38,480 --> 02:07:43,160
Speaker 1: in that last minute or two, did that animal suffer

1893
02:07:44,000 --> 02:07:47,520
Speaker 1: in any way by the hands of any man or woman.

1894
02:07:49,160 --> 02:07:53,920
Speaker 1: But I can assure you that there are many animals,

1895
02:07:54,360 --> 02:08:00,600
Speaker 1: hundreds of millions of animals that are raised to feed

1896
02:08:00,960 --> 02:08:05,480
Speaker 1: all of us who live a life that is not

1897
02:08:05,960 --> 02:08:11,400
Speaker 1: free or wild or full. So we can argue over

1898
02:08:11,440 --> 02:08:16,600
Speaker 1: this issue of hunting, and you can be content to

1899
02:08:16,760 --> 02:08:21,200
Speaker 1: eat what you eat knowing that someone else has taken

1900
02:08:21,240 --> 02:08:25,960
Speaker 1: an animal that has lived its life in captivity and

1901
02:08:26,000 --> 02:08:31,160
Speaker 1: they have killed it for you. But I don't wish

1902
02:08:31,200 --> 02:08:37,480
Speaker 1: to do that. That is the basis of my discussions

1903
02:08:37,480 --> 02:08:44,080
Speaker 1: with people who challenge me Broader than that. However, very

1904
02:08:44,120 --> 02:08:54,200
Speaker 1: few people who meet me, hunter or non hunter, UM

1905
02:08:54,400 --> 02:08:58,920
Speaker 1: fails to believe that I love animals. I have spoken

1906
02:08:58,920 --> 02:09:01,960
Speaker 1: between before at adiences that are anti hunting, those that

1907
02:09:02,000 --> 02:09:07,120
Speaker 1: are pro hunting, those that are indifferent to hunting, university audiences,

1908
02:09:07,200 --> 02:09:13,120
Speaker 1: professional audiences, academic audiences, and geo audiences, public audiences, school children,

1909
02:09:15,720 --> 02:09:18,960
Speaker 1: and I seem to be able to convince people that

1910
02:09:19,000 --> 02:09:22,960
Speaker 1: I love animals, and I think every hunter needs to

1911
02:09:23,040 --> 02:09:28,360
Speaker 1: be able to explain that they really do care. Now,

1912
02:09:28,400 --> 02:09:32,960
Speaker 1: if you don't care, then you can't do that, And

1913
02:09:33,000 --> 02:09:40,720
Speaker 1: if you don't care, I can't help you. Yeah. I

1914
02:09:40,760 --> 02:09:42,880
Speaker 1: think that what you just shared with us right there

1915
02:09:43,400 --> 02:09:47,080
Speaker 1: is um is is what we all want to be

1916
02:09:47,120 --> 02:09:51,000
Speaker 1: able to convey. I think, and many times lots of

1917
02:09:51,120 --> 02:09:55,360
Speaker 1: struggle putting those thoughts and feelings into words. So I'm

1918
02:09:55,440 --> 02:09:58,440
Speaker 1: very appreciative that you could share that. And I think

1919
02:09:58,600 --> 02:10:01,720
Speaker 1: I think everything we've talked about here today, a lot

1920
02:10:01,800 --> 02:10:05,120
Speaker 1: of the topics and issues are are issues that I

1921
02:10:05,160 --> 02:10:07,520
Speaker 1: believe that many hunters do wrestle with. And if they

1922
02:10:07,560 --> 02:10:10,320
Speaker 1: aren't already, they should be thinking about these things. It's

1923
02:10:10,320 --> 02:10:13,720
Speaker 1: important that we're thinking about these things internally, struggling with

1924
02:10:13,800 --> 02:10:17,160
Speaker 1: these things maybe, and and and I say that because

1925
02:10:17,240 --> 02:10:21,520
Speaker 1: hunting is a serious thing. It's it's nothing trite, It's

1926
02:10:21,680 --> 02:10:25,520
Speaker 1: it's not something to just go out and do. It's

1927
02:10:25,560 --> 02:10:30,800
Speaker 1: something that is so deeply intertwined with who we are.

1928
02:10:31,800 --> 02:10:34,520
Speaker 1: And and it's taking a life. And I think that's

1929
02:10:34,520 --> 02:10:37,640
Speaker 1: something that is something that should be taken very, very

1930
02:10:37,680 --> 02:10:43,320
Speaker 1: seriously thought about. And to that point, I guess we are.

1931
02:10:44,480 --> 02:10:46,400
Speaker 1: We've taken a lot of your time, Shannon, and I

1932
02:10:46,480 --> 02:10:48,680
Speaker 1: really appreciate it, and we've covered so many things I

1933
02:10:48,720 --> 02:10:50,680
Speaker 1: was hoping that we would, and I'm so glad that

1934
02:10:50,720 --> 02:10:53,760
Speaker 1: we did. UM. But if if people are out there

1935
02:10:53,760 --> 02:10:57,560
Speaker 1: that want to dive into these types of topics more, UM,

1936
02:10:57,640 --> 02:10:59,800
Speaker 1: I'd like to offer one suggestion that I'd love to

1937
02:10:59,840 --> 02:11:02,440
Speaker 1: hear from you, Shane Um when it comes to hunter

1938
02:11:02,640 --> 02:11:07,160
Speaker 1: ethics or communicating about hunting UM or conservation or why

1939
02:11:07,240 --> 02:11:09,680
Speaker 1: we hunt. UM. There's a book I've really come to

1940
02:11:09,720 --> 02:11:12,760
Speaker 1: find helpful and insightful. It's called A Hunter's Heart and

1941
02:11:12,880 --> 02:11:15,520
Speaker 1: it's a collection of essays put together by David Peterson.

1942
02:11:15,960 --> 02:11:19,080
Speaker 1: And I would personally encourage anyone listening if you're if

1943
02:11:19,120 --> 02:11:22,520
Speaker 1: you want to to dive into this aspect of hunting more,

1944
02:11:22,560 --> 02:11:25,360
Speaker 1: which I'd encourage you all to do, I'd really recommend

1945
02:11:25,360 --> 02:11:27,680
Speaker 1: that book is something to look at because I think

1946
02:11:27,720 --> 02:11:29,640
Speaker 1: it really it poses a lot of these questions, it

1947
02:11:29,720 --> 02:11:32,480
Speaker 1: explores a lot of these topics UM, and I think

1948
02:11:32,520 --> 02:11:35,720
Speaker 1: it's I think these types of things are are part

1949
02:11:35,720 --> 02:11:38,680
Speaker 1: of the responsibility of being a hunter is understanding these things,

1950
02:11:38,680 --> 02:11:41,880
Speaker 1: of answering these questions for yourself and then also feeling

1951
02:11:41,880 --> 02:11:46,360
Speaker 1: comfortable answering them to others because um, as Shane's mentioned here,

1952
02:11:46,400 --> 02:11:49,600
Speaker 1: you know, being able to communicate with the non hunting

1953
02:11:49,640 --> 02:11:53,880
Speaker 1: public and making sure that we do have them UM

1954
02:11:53,920 --> 02:11:56,080
Speaker 1: at least accepting of of what we do is going

1955
02:11:56,120 --> 02:11:58,480
Speaker 1: to be very important for not only are hunting way

1956
02:11:58,480 --> 02:12:01,120
Speaker 1: of life, but also the preservation of those places and

1957
02:12:01,200 --> 02:12:04,920
Speaker 1: animals that we care for so much so that all said, Shane,

1958
02:12:05,400 --> 02:12:07,960
Speaker 1: do you have any other resources, whether it be a book,

1959
02:12:07,960 --> 02:12:10,640
Speaker 1: a film, a website, anything like that that you would

1960
02:12:10,680 --> 02:12:13,040
Speaker 1: encourage our listeners to to check out if they'd like

1961
02:12:13,120 --> 02:12:17,480
Speaker 1: to explore these topics more. Well, there's a lot of

1962
02:12:17,520 --> 02:12:20,640
Speaker 1: literature that's out there that's sort of toys around the question.

1963
02:12:21,080 --> 02:12:25,240
Speaker 1: The book you reference is actually um uh an excellent source,

1964
02:12:25,440 --> 02:12:30,960
Speaker 1: There's no question about it. I guess um revant turning

1965
02:12:30,960 --> 02:12:34,560
Speaker 1: people towards anything that you know I have done or

1966
02:12:35,840 --> 02:12:40,360
Speaker 1: UM or others have done. UM. I'd like to turn

1967
02:12:40,400 --> 02:12:45,400
Speaker 1: it back um on each of us as individuals. UM.

1968
02:12:46,240 --> 02:12:49,280
Speaker 1: I don't care what a person's background is, man or woman.

1969
02:12:50,800 --> 02:12:53,760
Speaker 1: I don't care what their races. I don't care what

1970
02:12:53,800 --> 02:12:57,440
Speaker 1: the religion is. I don't care what their educational background is.

1971
02:12:59,080 --> 02:13:02,560
Speaker 1: I think there were all by virtue of being human,

1972
02:13:03,240 --> 02:13:07,440
Speaker 1: capable of very reflective thought. It may come at a

1973
02:13:07,440 --> 02:13:09,600
Speaker 1: time of point pain in our lives. It may come

1974
02:13:09,640 --> 02:13:15,839
Speaker 1: at a time of beautiful experience or seeing something extraordinary. Actually,

1975
02:13:15,840 --> 02:13:18,240
Speaker 1: what I would encourage each of your listeners to do

1976
02:13:19,880 --> 02:13:24,400
Speaker 1: is to carry their own little note book and to

1977
02:13:24,480 --> 02:13:28,800
Speaker 1: try and express in their words, in whatever language they prefer,

1978
02:13:30,240 --> 02:13:35,880
Speaker 1: what their feelings are throughout any hunting experience, from the

1979
02:13:36,000 --> 02:13:40,839
Speaker 1: preparation time to the time they leave in the before

1980
02:13:40,960 --> 02:13:45,000
Speaker 1: light hours, the sounds that they experience on their way

1981
02:13:45,080 --> 02:13:48,760
Speaker 1: to a place where they are going to wait the

1982
02:13:48,880 --> 02:13:53,080
Speaker 1: arrival of turkeys, or to the first light over a marsh,

1983
02:13:53,480 --> 02:13:58,200
Speaker 1: or to some first chance to scan mountain escarpments, whatever

1984
02:13:58,240 --> 02:14:02,440
Speaker 1: that might be, up until the time when they see

1985
02:14:02,760 --> 02:14:06,800
Speaker 1: an animal, how they feel in pursuit, how they feel

1986
02:14:06,960 --> 02:14:10,520
Speaker 1: at the time of frustration when the animal is gone

1987
02:14:10,640 --> 02:14:15,680
Speaker 1: and their trip is over, or how they feel when

1988
02:14:15,720 --> 02:14:20,000
Speaker 1: they do kill an animal. Um, I think there's value

1989
02:14:20,040 --> 02:14:23,560
Speaker 1: in reading the things that others have produced. Yes, I do,

1990
02:14:25,560 --> 02:14:30,800
Speaker 1: But you know, I think there's a there's more in

1991
02:14:30,960 --> 02:14:37,760
Speaker 1: us all about this issue of hunting than we let on,

1992
02:14:38,360 --> 02:14:43,680
Speaker 1: or that we we set free. You know, it's not

1993
02:14:43,800 --> 02:14:47,520
Speaker 1: everybody is going to be a Roosevelt or some sort

1994
02:14:47,520 --> 02:14:51,920
Speaker 1: of you know, TV celebrity or writer or whatever the

1995
02:14:52,080 --> 02:14:56,240
Speaker 1: situation might be. But every single person who has hunted

1996
02:14:57,320 --> 02:15:03,040
Speaker 1: has shared some of the same variance. And so I

1997
02:15:03,120 --> 02:15:09,160
Speaker 1: think what I would suggest and recommend more is that people,

1998
02:15:10,080 --> 02:15:17,920
Speaker 1: your listeners, hunters everywhere, start to reflect on this experience

1999
02:15:18,240 --> 02:15:23,520
Speaker 1: more deeply and to then ask themselves if they have

2000
02:15:23,640 --> 02:15:30,680
Speaker 1: to explain to their children before they ever take their

2001
02:15:30,760 --> 02:15:34,240
Speaker 1: children with them, if they have to explain to their

2002
02:15:34,320 --> 02:15:42,160
Speaker 1: children why they do it. That's a comfortable relationship. It's

2003
02:15:42,200 --> 02:15:46,560
Speaker 1: a person they know, they have a great audience to

2004
02:15:46,640 --> 02:15:53,160
Speaker 1: practice on. It's a challenging thing to do, but I

2005
02:15:53,160 --> 02:15:56,840
Speaker 1: think it's a really worthwhile thing to do. And that's

2006
02:15:56,840 --> 02:16:00,000
Speaker 1: what I would recommend. And I love that. I think

2007
02:16:00,120 --> 02:16:02,640
Speaker 1: that is a like that is a great idea. And

2008
02:16:02,840 --> 02:16:05,320
Speaker 1: to your point, so much of this is just simply

2009
02:16:05,360 --> 02:16:09,520
Speaker 1: the act of reflecting on what we do and the

2010
02:16:09,520 --> 02:16:11,880
Speaker 1: importance of that right there, Just the reflection, whether that's

2011
02:16:11,920 --> 02:16:15,440
Speaker 1: by writing your own thoughts, listening to a podcast like this,

2012
02:16:15,600 --> 02:16:18,880
Speaker 1: reading a book, talking with friends, talking with non hunters,

2013
02:16:18,920 --> 02:16:25,000
Speaker 1: whatever it might be. I think having these thoughts, conversations, reflections,

2014
02:16:25,560 --> 02:16:29,240
Speaker 1: um it's important. So so thank you Shane for helping

2015
02:16:29,360 --> 02:16:32,879
Speaker 1: us maybe trigger or catalyze these types of thoughts or

2016
02:16:32,879 --> 02:16:36,240
Speaker 1: conversations or reflections in our audience and with other people.

2017
02:16:36,920 --> 02:16:39,000
Speaker 1: And and finally like to ask Shane, if if our

2018
02:16:39,000 --> 02:16:41,760
Speaker 1: listeners want to learn about what you're doing with Conservation

2019
02:16:41,840 --> 02:16:45,280
Speaker 1: Visions or the Wild Harvest initiative, where can they go

2020
02:16:45,320 --> 02:16:48,280
Speaker 1: to get more information about that? Well, if they just

2021
02:16:48,640 --> 02:16:52,440
Speaker 1: sort of google anything about me, they'll find their way.

2022
02:16:52,520 --> 02:16:58,400
Speaker 1: But my website is www dot Conservation Visions dot com.

2023
02:16:58,800 --> 02:17:02,120
Speaker 1: They can visit that um or, you know, they can

2024
02:17:02,120 --> 02:17:05,000
Speaker 1: see my articles in various magazines or look for my

2025
02:17:05,040 --> 02:17:09,879
Speaker 1: films or whatever. But um Or, they can get in

2026
02:17:09,920 --> 02:17:14,000
Speaker 1: touch with me as many many many people do so,

2027
02:17:14,840 --> 02:17:18,119
Speaker 1: you know, but anyway that will give them some ideas

2028
02:17:18,160 --> 02:17:20,119
Speaker 1: of the of the things that I do and so on.

2029
02:17:20,879 --> 02:17:23,240
Speaker 1: And I'd like to thank you both for having me

2030
02:17:23,320 --> 02:17:27,680
Speaker 1: on the program. It's been a wonderful discussion and I

2031
02:17:27,680 --> 02:17:31,279
Speaker 1: I hope we've changed some minds and influence some hearts.

2032
02:17:31,879 --> 02:17:36,840
Speaker 1: Absolutely well, we really appreciate Shane, please know that we

2033
02:17:36,879 --> 02:17:41,120
Speaker 1: appreciate what you're doing for wildlife in wild places and

2034
02:17:41,320 --> 02:17:44,400
Speaker 1: hunters and our hunting way of life, and uh, please

2035
02:17:44,480 --> 02:17:46,720
Speaker 1: keep on keeping on. It's it's a great thing. So

2036
02:17:46,800 --> 02:17:49,279
Speaker 1: thank you for your time, Shane, and have a great

2037
02:17:49,560 --> 02:17:53,960
Speaker 1: rest of your evening. Okay, thanks very much. Merry Christmas

2038
02:17:53,959 --> 02:18:00,920
Speaker 1: to everyone upon us as well. Okay, good night, bye bye. Wow.

2039
02:18:02,040 --> 02:18:06,160
Speaker 1: I don't know about you, but and I really enjoyed

2040
02:18:06,200 --> 02:18:08,880
Speaker 1: that conversation. There's there's a lot to take in, there

2041
02:18:08,879 --> 02:18:11,360
Speaker 1: are a lot to think about, but uh, but I

2042
02:18:11,400 --> 02:18:14,400
Speaker 1: think it's just so important. So thank you for sticking

2043
02:18:14,400 --> 02:18:17,160
Speaker 1: with us today for this extra long episode of the podcast.

2044
02:18:17,840 --> 02:18:21,640
Speaker 1: But hopefully it was also a very valuable one as well.

2045
02:18:22,120 --> 02:18:26,800
Speaker 1: So moving on, we do have two important announcements. First,

2046
02:18:26,879 --> 02:18:29,280
Speaker 1: as I teased at the beginning of this episode, I've

2047
02:18:29,280 --> 02:18:31,840
Speaker 1: decided to launch a sweepstakes for the next couple of weeks,

2048
02:18:31,920 --> 02:18:35,360
Speaker 1: essentially just to say thank you. You know, there are

2049
02:18:35,480 --> 02:18:38,720
Speaker 1: thousands and thousands and thousands of you out there listening

2050
02:18:38,720 --> 02:18:41,560
Speaker 1: to this show every week, and Dan and I just

2051
02:18:41,640 --> 02:18:45,279
Speaker 1: appreciate that so much from the bottom of our hearts,

2052
02:18:45,320 --> 02:18:47,680
Speaker 1: you know, thank you for taking that time to spend

2053
02:18:47,680 --> 02:18:50,119
Speaker 1: with us. Thank you for tuning in, thanks for caring

2054
02:18:50,160 --> 02:18:51,680
Speaker 1: about what we're doing here, and for wanting to be

2055
02:18:51,720 --> 02:18:54,160
Speaker 1: a part of it. So from the bottom of our

2056
02:18:54,200 --> 02:18:57,480
Speaker 1: hearts again, thank you, So would that being the case.

2057
02:18:57,520 --> 02:19:01,000
Speaker 1: With that being said, we're going to give away a

2058
02:19:01,040 --> 02:19:04,760
Speaker 1: couple awesome prizes to celebrate the holidays and to celebrate

2059
02:19:04,800 --> 02:19:07,120
Speaker 1: all of you. So we are giving away a first

2060
02:19:07,160 --> 02:19:10,840
Speaker 1: prize of a brand new Bear archery arena thirty bow

2061
02:19:11,560 --> 02:19:14,720
Speaker 1: as a slick rig. Second prize is a Sick of

2062
02:19:14,720 --> 02:19:19,320
Speaker 1: Gear Celsius shackett and Fanatic beanie. And third prize is

2063
02:19:19,360 --> 02:19:22,080
Speaker 1: a Wired Hunt hat and T shirt. So some awesome

2064
02:19:22,080 --> 02:19:26,959
Speaker 1: prize right there. Again, a brand new bow, an awesome shirt, jacket,

2065
02:19:27,000 --> 02:19:29,640
Speaker 1: the shacket which I love from Sick of Gear, a

2066
02:19:29,680 --> 02:19:32,520
Speaker 1: Fanatic beanie, and third prize is some sweetward Hunt gear.

2067
02:19:32,640 --> 02:19:34,920
Speaker 1: So if you'd like to enter to win any one

2068
02:19:35,000 --> 02:19:37,800
Speaker 1: of those three sets of gear, go to Wired to

2069
02:19:37,959 --> 02:19:42,039
Speaker 1: Hunt dot com slash Holiday. That's Wired to Hunt dot

2070
02:19:42,040 --> 02:19:44,320
Speaker 1: com slash Holiday, and that's gonna send you to the

2071
02:19:44,320 --> 02:19:47,440
Speaker 1: Facebook page that's hosting this giveaway. Once you get there,

2072
02:19:47,720 --> 02:19:51,240
Speaker 1: you just need to enter your full name, email address, birthdate,

2073
02:19:51,720 --> 02:19:55,320
Speaker 1: and a code phrase, and that code phrase is something

2074
02:19:55,360 --> 02:19:57,720
Speaker 1: I'm only sharing here in this episode right now. So

2075
02:19:58,800 --> 02:20:03,680
Speaker 1: the code phrase is with that being said, yep, the

2076
02:20:03,720 --> 02:20:07,320
Speaker 1: code phrase is, with that being said, type that in

2077
02:20:07,920 --> 02:20:11,640
Speaker 1: no spaces and then hit submit. That is going to

2078
02:20:11,680 --> 02:20:13,959
Speaker 1: be what's going to make you eligible to win one

2079
02:20:14,000 --> 02:20:17,960
Speaker 1: of our three grand prizes, and that sweepstikes will open today.

2080
02:20:18,200 --> 02:20:22,480
Speaker 1: This is uh December nine, or sorry, December ten's opening

2081
02:20:22,680 --> 02:20:26,640
Speaker 1: and that's gonna be open until December fifteen, and we'll

2082
02:20:26,640 --> 02:20:29,160
Speaker 1: then announce our winners on the next episode of the

2083
02:20:29,200 --> 02:20:32,720
Speaker 1: podcast released after that day. So again, visit wire to

2084
02:20:32,800 --> 02:20:35,920
Speaker 1: Hunt dot com slash holiday to enter the giveaway, and

2085
02:20:36,000 --> 02:20:40,520
Speaker 1: remember the code phrases with that being said, and that's

2086
02:20:40,600 --> 02:20:43,560
Speaker 1: that's no spaces with that being said in those spaces.

2087
02:20:43,600 --> 02:20:47,200
Speaker 1: So in other news, Dan and my trail camera contest

2088
02:20:47,240 --> 02:20:49,080
Speaker 1: about that we've been talking about the past few months,

2089
02:20:49,240 --> 02:20:51,560
Speaker 1: It's finally open for voting. It's a little late, but

2090
02:20:51,800 --> 02:20:53,959
Speaker 1: I finally remember to get online. So if you go

2091
02:20:54,000 --> 02:20:56,560
Speaker 1: over to the blog wire dome dot com, you'll see

2092
02:20:56,680 --> 02:20:59,840
Speaker 1: a blog post from this most recent week that in

2093
02:21:00,000 --> 02:21:02,840
Speaker 1: Who's a Pole to vote on which of the bucks

2094
02:21:02,920 --> 02:21:06,120
Speaker 1: we shared you think is the biggest it's kind of

2095
02:21:06,120 --> 02:21:09,240
Speaker 1: a fun little thing. Um, I'm currently getting destroyed, but

2096
02:21:09,440 --> 02:21:11,080
Speaker 1: if you'd like to put salt in my wounds, go

2097
02:21:11,120 --> 02:21:13,840
Speaker 1: ahead and vote to so be sure to check that out.

2098
02:21:13,959 --> 02:21:17,520
Speaker 1: So finally, a big thank you to our partners who

2099
02:21:17,560 --> 02:21:20,120
Speaker 1: helped make this show possible. So big thank you to

2100
02:21:20,200 --> 02:21:24,080
Speaker 1: Sick of Gear, Trophy, Ridge Bear Archery, Redneck Blinds, Hunter A,

2101
02:21:24,200 --> 02:21:28,440
Speaker 1: maps Ozonics, Carbon Express, Lacrosse Boots, and the White Tail

2102
02:21:28,520 --> 02:21:33,040
Speaker 1: Institute of North America. And with all of that being said,

2103
02:21:34,320 --> 02:21:37,680
Speaker 1: and there's your code phrase again, thanks again for joining

2104
02:21:37,720 --> 02:21:41,320
Speaker 1: us today. Please keep Shane's words in mind over the

2105
02:21:41,360 --> 02:21:45,920
Speaker 1: coming days, do some reflecting, take action for hunting and conservation,

2106
02:21:46,560 --> 02:21:50,080
Speaker 1: and finally, stay wired to hunt.