WEBVTT - Sen. Elizabeth Warren Talks Signal Scandal, Hegseth, Musk, SEC 0:00:02.480 --> 0:00:07.080 Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. 0:00:07.440 --> 0:00:09.080 I wanted to ask you, first of all about what 0:00:09.119 --> 0:00:11.440 we've been learning about. The editor of The Atlantic found 0:00:11.520 --> 0:00:13.920 himself in a chat with some of the most senior 0:00:13.960 --> 0:00:17.920 members of President Trump's administration national security staff, and by 0:00:18.040 --> 0:00:21.720 virtue of that was privy to plans for an attack 0:00:21.760 --> 0:00:22.520 in great detail. 0:00:23.200 --> 0:00:24.720 Your reaction to it. You sitt on the Senate Armed 0:00:24.720 --> 0:00:25.560 Services Committee. 0:00:25.640 --> 0:00:29.560 So let me just start with if Pete Hegseth had 0:00:29.600 --> 0:00:36.199 a shred of self respect and decency, he would resign. 0:00:36.600 --> 0:00:41.520 That's what leadership is about. And instead Pete Hegseth thinks 0:00:41.600 --> 0:00:44.800 it's all about I'll point at somebody else and minimize 0:00:44.840 --> 0:00:49.000 the problem and sweep it under the rug and deflect. 0:00:49.440 --> 0:00:53.080 You know, I want to be a leader of the 0:00:53.080 --> 0:00:56.480 finest armed forces in the world and step up and 0:00:56.520 --> 0:00:57.960 take some responsibility. 0:00:58.640 --> 0:01:00.680 Should he be fired, you talk about it. If you 0:01:00.720 --> 0:01:02.560 won't quit, then he. 0:01:02.520 --> 0:01:06.800 Should be fired because he has put our national security 0:01:07.360 --> 0:01:11.560 at risk. That's part one. Part two is you realize 0:01:11.600 --> 0:01:15.600 a bunch of this is potentially certainly breaking the law. So, 0:01:15.720 --> 0:01:18.920 for example, because of the Freedom of Information Act, there 0:01:18.920 --> 0:01:23.480 are laws that require that people in the administration all 0:01:23.560 --> 0:01:28.040 of them have to preserve the records of their texting 0:01:28.280 --> 0:01:30.319 back and forth. I know this from the days when 0:01:30.360 --> 0:01:34.480 I served in the administration and we were carefully cautioned 0:01:34.880 --> 0:01:38.080 about the importance of preserving records. Signal, as you know, 0:01:38.760 --> 0:01:43.240 disappears those records. And I will say on this when 0:01:43.280 --> 0:01:48.120 I read how casually they just formed this chat. Notice 0:01:48.200 --> 0:01:51.000 that's how you refer to it to discuss the national 0:01:51.000 --> 0:01:59.559 security issues and the bombing of another country. How many 0:01:59.600 --> 0:02:02.240 other times so are they using signal and what are 0:02:02.280 --> 0:02:06.160 they using it for? So this is a moment. We 0:02:06.200 --> 0:02:10.520 need some of those congressional investigations. We need a hearing 0:02:11.320 --> 0:02:14.080 in the Senate, we need a hearing in the House. 0:02:15.360 --> 0:02:18.560 I remember all of the hearings before when there was 0:02:18.600 --> 0:02:22.079 a question about Hillary Clinton's emails. I want to run 0:02:22.120 --> 0:02:25.639 the tape on how many Republicans talked about the importance 0:02:25.680 --> 0:02:29.440 of accountability and getting to the bottom of this. Where 0:02:29.440 --> 0:02:32.520 are they right now? I'm ready for those hearings, and 0:02:32.840 --> 0:02:34.440 the FBI needs to step up. 0:02:34.880 --> 0:02:36.960 This was a chat that was organized by Mike Waltz, 0:02:37.000 --> 0:02:39.600 the president national security advisor, and he addressed this in 0:02:39.639 --> 0:02:40.679 an interview on Fox News. 0:02:40.720 --> 0:02:43.920 Here's what he said. We made a mistake. We're moving forward. 0:02:45.000 --> 0:02:48.000 I noted that Biden large the response for the administration 0:02:48.040 --> 0:02:50.560 has been there wasn't classified information here, And as a 0:02:50.600 --> 0:02:52.880 result of that, the Atlantic release screenshots of a lot 0:02:52.919 --> 0:02:54.960 of these conversations. We learned that there was information about 0:02:54.960 --> 0:02:58.280 planes timing of this attack. You talk about the need 0:02:58.320 --> 0:03:00.720 for hearings. Are you optimistic that that's going to happen 0:03:00.720 --> 0:03:01.359 and that you're going to. 0:03:01.280 --> 0:03:03.160 Get to the bottom of what was in fact discussed 0:03:03.200 --> 0:03:03.720 on that chat. 0:03:04.320 --> 0:03:07.560 So I think this is a question fundamentally about where 0:03:07.680 --> 0:03:11.720 is power in this country. I get it elections, we 0:03:11.840 --> 0:03:15.120 pick a president. President picks a team, and that's where 0:03:15.880 --> 0:03:19.960 power resigns in terms of the execution day to day 0:03:20.280 --> 0:03:24.560 of various policies. But ultimately it's people across this country. 0:03:25.080 --> 0:03:27.839 And when people across this country said, wait a minute, 0:03:28.600 --> 0:03:31.840 the Secretary of Defense, I mean this is this is 0:03:31.880 --> 0:03:34.720 not some random guy off the streets who stumbled across 0:03:34.760 --> 0:03:36.840 some secret information and kind of didn't know how to 0:03:36.880 --> 0:03:40.920 handle it. This is the Secretary of Defense. And the 0:03:41.000 --> 0:03:46.200 Secretary of Defense went right along with exchanging this information 0:03:46.440 --> 0:03:49.480 in a place that is not secure. Again, I just 0:03:49.560 --> 0:03:53.640 got to stress over here, we want to look at 0:03:53.840 --> 0:03:58.880 any secret information, any confidential and information, any classified information, 0:03:59.400 --> 0:04:02.360 you got to go do onto a secure location to 0:04:02.440 --> 0:04:04.280 do it. You physically have to go, and you have 0:04:04.320 --> 0:04:07.280 to hand over your phone. By the way, somebody stands 0:04:07.440 --> 0:04:10.480 at the door and says, do you have any electronic 0:04:10.520 --> 0:04:13.680 devices on? And you've got to say no, I don't 0:04:13.720 --> 0:04:16.120 before you're allowed to go. Pencil and paper. Is how 0:04:16.160 --> 0:04:20.440 high tech they get because of the importance of protecting 0:04:21.160 --> 0:04:26.560 candid conversations that need to occur, and those candid conversations 0:04:26.600 --> 0:04:32.200 need to be shielded from the rest of the world. 0:04:33.080 --> 0:04:35.760 When the White House wants to say nothing to see here, 0:04:36.640 --> 0:04:40.240 just flip it the other direction and ask yourself if 0:04:40.279 --> 0:04:43.800 the Atlantic had called the White House and said, let 0:04:43.800 --> 0:04:48.080 me show you what we've got in advance of the bombing, 0:04:48.600 --> 0:04:51.320 you guys, okay, if we put it up on our website, 0:04:52.720 --> 0:04:55.960 how many heart attacks would there have been over at 0:04:56.000 --> 0:05:00.040 the White House saying no, no, no, no, no, you 0:05:00.120 --> 0:05:02.599 can't do that. Well, if it wouldn't have been okay 0:05:02.680 --> 0:05:05.200 for the Atlantic to publish all of that in advance, 0:05:06.400 --> 0:05:10.080 you gotta worry it's not published on a website. But 0:05:10.160 --> 0:05:12.680 I don't know who's listening on signal, the Chinese, the 0:05:12.720 --> 0:05:18.040 North Koreans, the Russians, some other bad actors out there. 0:05:19.080 --> 0:05:23.000 It is important that we follow through as a nation 0:05:23.360 --> 0:05:26.400 and say, look, you put our whole country at risk, 0:05:26.680 --> 0:05:30.520 our allies. I'm getting asked in the hallways by foreign reporters, 0:05:31.120 --> 0:05:34.320 can we actually trust the United States of America if 0:05:34.320 --> 0:05:35.960 we tell secrets and they're going to end up on 0:05:36.040 --> 0:05:40.560 some signal chat with the Secretary of Defense. So there 0:05:40.600 --> 0:05:42.240 needs to be an investigation, but there needs to be 0:05:42.320 --> 0:05:45.640 some accountability, and the accountability should start right now. Hegsas 0:05:45.680 --> 0:05:48.000 should resign, and if you won't do that, then Trump 0:05:48.080 --> 0:05:50.240 should fire them. He knows how to say you're fired. 0:05:51.120 --> 0:05:52.600 I want to ask you at the moment that we're in, 0:05:52.680 --> 0:05:54.400 this is your part of that moment. We're two months 0:05:54.440 --> 0:05:58.240 into this administration's tenure. How are you thinking about the 0:05:58.360 --> 0:06:01.000 role of the Democratic Party in this moment? 0:06:01.640 --> 0:06:03.960 And just it's gravity overall for the country itself. 0:06:04.760 --> 0:06:08.680 So let's set the table for this moment. Donald Trump 0:06:08.839 --> 0:06:12.400 ran for office saying over and over and over and 0:06:12.400 --> 0:06:15.480 over and over, I will lower costs on day one. 0:06:15.560 --> 0:06:17.839 Those are his words, not mine. I have a lower 0:06:17.880 --> 0:06:21.240 costs on day one. He said that to millions and 0:06:21.320 --> 0:06:23.960 millions of people, and right after he got elected, he 0:06:24.040 --> 0:06:26.960 was interviewed his very first interview, he said that's how 0:06:26.960 --> 0:06:30.080 I got elected, was saying I'm going to lower costs 0:06:30.120 --> 0:06:33.159 Onnday one. So here we are two months in. He 0:06:33.200 --> 0:06:38.039 has done nothing to lower costs. I mean no, all 0:06:38.080 --> 0:06:42.400 that's happening is we're watching places where costs are going up, up, up. 0:06:43.360 --> 0:06:47.520 But he and his co president Elon Musk, have been 0:06:47.560 --> 0:06:54.400 out there with a chainsaw moving through government, trying to 0:06:54.440 --> 0:06:57.920 fire the financial cops, for example, by trying to shut 0:06:58.000 --> 0:07:03.440 down the Consumer Financial protect Bureau, laying off tens of 0:07:03.600 --> 0:07:07.839 thousands of federal workers who kind of do the job 0:07:07.960 --> 0:07:11.120 of Social Security making sure people get their Social Security 0:07:11.240 --> 0:07:17.960 checks each month, ending contracts for medical research. So there's this, 0:07:18.880 --> 0:07:22.360 and playing red light green light with tariffs, right, yes 0:07:22.400 --> 0:07:25.280 there's a tariff, No, there's not a tariff, right, playing 0:07:25.320 --> 0:07:29.200 that game. So it's important to remember we're in a 0:07:29.240 --> 0:07:32.960 system right now that is deeply chaotic. I think of 0:07:32.960 --> 0:07:35.480 that like a sand storm. You know, the sand is 0:07:35.520 --> 0:07:40.040 blowing everywhere. I have. The job at the Democratic Party 0:07:40.120 --> 0:07:42.960 right now is to say there's a lot going on. 0:07:43.920 --> 0:07:46.120 We are in the fight. We are in the fight 0:07:46.160 --> 0:07:49.320 to save social security. We are in these fights, but 0:07:49.440 --> 0:07:51.680 to pull back and to look at the bigger picture. 0:07:52.640 --> 0:07:54.840 The media will do the day by day fights, but 0:07:54.920 --> 0:07:57.800 our job is to pull back and the bigger picture 0:07:58.080 --> 0:08:02.240 is that other promise that Donald Trump made when he 0:08:02.320 --> 0:08:05.440 was running for president. Remember to millions of people, he said, 0:08:05.440 --> 0:08:08.040 I will cut your costs. On day one. To a 0:08:08.200 --> 0:08:13.120 handful of what he called his richest held donors, he said, 0:08:13.480 --> 0:08:16.360 I'm going to give you tax breaks like you've never 0:08:16.440 --> 0:08:21.600 seen before. So right now, Trump, the Republicans, and the 0:08:21.640 --> 0:08:27.120 billionaires are working together to move forward on a tax 0:08:27.200 --> 0:08:34.240 giveaway of about four point seven billion dollars, mostly sucked 0:08:34.320 --> 0:08:39.240 up by billionaires billionaire corporations and then paid for on 0:08:39.360 --> 0:08:44.440 the backs of elderly people in nursing homes who will 0:08:44.440 --> 0:08:48.360 lose federal support. Your neighbor down the street who has 0:08:48.400 --> 0:08:50.960 a disability and needs a home health aid paid for 0:08:51.080 --> 0:08:56.959 by the federal government. Kids in public school who need help, 0:08:57.000 --> 0:09:01.839 and those public schools need help cutting scientific research and 0:09:02.000 --> 0:09:07.880 medical research. And that sets up what this fight is 0:09:07.920 --> 0:09:10.520 all about. Are we going to be a nation that 0:09:10.640 --> 0:09:14.840 hands over four point seven trillion dollars in giveaways to 0:09:14.880 --> 0:09:18.079 a handful of billionaires and makes everybody else pay for it. 0:09:19.040 --> 0:09:21.439 Are we going to be a nation that says no 0:09:21.840 --> 0:09:26.040 to tax cuts for those guys and says we're going 0:09:26.080 --> 0:09:29.640 to invest in America where everybody gets an opportunity. 0:09:30.120 --> 0:09:32.320 The leader of Democrats and the Senate, Chuck Schumer, has 0:09:32.320 --> 0:09:33.960 a book out, so he's been talking a lot in 0:09:33.960 --> 0:09:35.319 Something he's brought up over and over again is he 0:09:35.360 --> 0:09:38.520 doesn't think that we're at a constitutional crisis yet. I 0:09:38.559 --> 0:09:40.920 wonder if you agree with him in that regard, and 0:09:41.600 --> 0:09:43.560 if so, what is the threshold when we would be 0:09:43.640 --> 0:09:44.199 phasing one? 0:09:44.440 --> 0:09:47.400 So I have to say, before we got here in 0:09:47.440 --> 0:09:51.360 the last two months, I would have described a constitutional 0:09:52.360 --> 0:09:54.839 crisis is like a light switch. You're not in one, 0:09:54.840 --> 0:09:56.200 you're not in one, You're not in one of them, 0:09:56.240 --> 0:09:59.400 all of a sudden you are in one. I've come 0:09:59.440 --> 0:10:01.960 to think of that that differently. When you've got a 0:10:02.000 --> 0:10:05.800 president just right out of the chalks says, yeah, I 0:10:05.840 --> 0:10:10.920 know the Constitution says earthright citizenship, but constitutions constitution, I 0:10:10.920 --> 0:10:13.400 don't have to pay attention to that. When you've got 0:10:13.440 --> 0:10:18.760 a president that has a co president who poses with 0:10:18.840 --> 0:10:22.440 a chainsaw and has a job in government, doesn't have 0:10:22.480 --> 0:10:27.840 a job in government, fires people illegally, tries to shut 0:10:27.880 --> 0:10:34.320 down agencies, illegally, cuts off contracts illegally. In other words, 0:10:34.440 --> 0:10:42.560 shows a hostility to the law. That's deeply worrisome. So 0:10:43.559 --> 0:10:50.000 I worry that we move increasingly toward an administration that's 0:10:50.080 --> 0:10:53.679 not just saying I'm going to be a more robust president. 0:10:53.720 --> 0:10:56.080 And I get it. Presidents look at this differently, some 0:10:56.200 --> 0:10:59.120 a little stronger, some a little weaker. But a president 0:10:59.160 --> 0:11:03.200 that says there are no constraints on me, and that 0:11:03.360 --> 0:11:07.640 takes me back to constitutional law one oh one. Legislature 0:11:07.760 --> 0:11:13.040 writes those laws. That's our part. Congress, the administration, President 0:11:13.120 --> 0:11:17.800 and those who work in the administration administer those laws. 0:11:18.400 --> 0:11:23.079 And the courts have the responsibility if the administration steps 0:11:23.120 --> 0:11:26.240 out of line to say you violated the law. We 0:11:26.400 --> 0:11:31.800 keep all three parts in balance. And I'm watching Donald 0:11:31.840 --> 0:11:36.200 Trump and Elon Musk say no, there are not three 0:11:36.280 --> 0:11:43.840 equal branches of government. It's just one that smells a 0:11:43.960 --> 0:11:46.200 lot like a constitutional crisis. 0:11:46.960 --> 0:11:49.360 We've just been through a moment when Republicans wrote a 0:11:49.400 --> 0:11:53.240 continuing resolution and Chuck Schumer said the Democrats had supported 0:11:53.280 --> 0:11:55.600 he did. You did not, I should say, you did 0:11:55.600 --> 0:11:59.200 a town hall in Lowell, Massachusetts. WBR was there and 0:11:59.240 --> 0:12:01.400 recorded it, and I got tape of what you said. 0:12:01.679 --> 0:12:04.960 I think Chuck Schumer is wrong. You didn't linger on that, 0:12:05.040 --> 0:12:06.760 and I wonder if you might hear, just for a moment, 0:12:07.360 --> 0:12:11.000 was he wrong about the political calculation? Spell out for 0:12:11.080 --> 0:12:12.520 me what you disagreed about that he did. 0:12:12.520 --> 0:12:14.000 In particular, I. 0:12:13.960 --> 0:12:16.760 Think there's a moment when his stand and fight, and 0:12:16.840 --> 0:12:20.040 for me, that moment came with a continuing resolution. 0:12:20.040 --> 0:12:21.560 It was a squaded opportunity to do so. 0:12:22.160 --> 0:12:24.760 It's more than that. Understand, Let's go back to what 0:12:24.760 --> 0:12:27.439 we're talking. What is the big fight right now? The 0:12:27.480 --> 0:12:30.400 big fight is going to be whether or not the 0:12:31.320 --> 0:12:34.280 billionaires and Donald Trump and Elon Musk are just going 0:12:34.320 --> 0:12:37.080 to take over our country and run it to suit themselves, 0:12:37.160 --> 0:12:40.400 make everybody else pay for it. That's what the budget 0:12:40.720 --> 0:12:42.400 is all about. We do a lot of other things 0:12:42.400 --> 0:12:45.280 in Washington, but you want to know our values. Take 0:12:45.280 --> 0:12:49.320 a look at the budget, and so the question becomes, 0:12:49.400 --> 0:12:53.679 in this fight, we got to stop and draw the 0:12:53.679 --> 0:12:57.600 line and say it's time. It's time for us to 0:12:57.640 --> 0:13:00.040 fight back. It's time to call on people of the 0:13:00.080 --> 0:13:03.560 United States, because that whole constitutional structure that I was 0:13:03.600 --> 0:13:07.360 talking about, the three parts of government, all rest ultimately 0:13:07.960 --> 0:13:13.240 on the people, and it is time to have that fight. 0:13:14.000 --> 0:13:17.120 Did it cause you to reevaluate your faith and confidence 0:13:17.160 --> 0:13:19.520 in Senator Schumer is a leader of Democrats in the Senate. 0:13:20.040 --> 0:13:22.520 I want to be clear, we are heading into a 0:13:22.559 --> 0:13:27.360 fight where we need every single Democrat pointed the same way. 0:13:27.840 --> 0:13:30.720 We may still be bumping around on exactly what the 0:13:30.760 --> 0:13:33.280 timing is going to be on that fight, exactly where 0:13:33.280 --> 0:13:35.959 the trigger point is going to be, but there is 0:13:36.160 --> 0:13:40.600 no doubt in the United States Senate, the forty seven 0:13:40.640 --> 0:13:44.600 of us are locked arms and moving in the same direction. 0:13:45.080 --> 0:13:48.559 And the same is true over in the House. This 0:13:48.679 --> 0:13:51.920 fight is on top of us. We cannot avoid this 0:13:52.040 --> 0:13:57.839 fight because Donald Trump and Elon Musk, truly they want 0:13:57.880 --> 0:14:00.480 to take this country over for just a handful of people, 0:14:00.720 --> 0:14:04.200 and they want even more wealth and more power to 0:14:04.240 --> 0:14:07.360 go to them. Well, everybody else has to pay for it. 0:14:07.480 --> 0:14:08.360 That is the fight. 0:14:09.040 --> 0:14:11.440 Last question on this subject, sure, what is your role 0:14:11.480 --> 0:14:13.679 as you see it in that fight? You write a 0:14:13.679 --> 0:14:16.960 lot of letters to administration officials, you speak out quite 0:14:16.960 --> 0:14:20.080 a bit, You are somebod I think identifiable with this 0:14:21.200 --> 0:14:24.040 oversight fight and struggle with the administration. How do you 0:14:24.040 --> 0:14:25.960 see your role in the Democratic Party broadly today? 0:14:26.080 --> 0:14:29.840 But I look at what are the tools in my toolbox. 0:14:30.000 --> 0:14:32.960 I'll use every one of them that I possibly can. 0:14:33.440 --> 0:14:35.600 Oversight is a big part. This is part of your 0:14:35.680 --> 0:14:40.280 job when you're a senator, and that is to look 0:14:40.280 --> 0:14:44.600 at the agencies, to ask questions of these nominees, to 0:14:44.680 --> 0:14:47.560 get them on the record, to press them, to ask 0:14:47.560 --> 0:14:50.880 for investigations. This is why we need inspectors General. This 0:14:50.960 --> 0:14:54.000 is why we need an active GAO. This is why 0:14:54.040 --> 0:14:57.520 we need an FBI that is still functional. It's partly 0:14:57.640 --> 0:15:00.240 just to say we already have laws, and for the 0:15:00.360 --> 0:15:03.800 damn laws, make sure that people are doing that. That's 0:15:03.840 --> 0:15:06.120 part of my job. Part of my job is to 0:15:06.120 --> 0:15:09.800 be in the fight to give it everything I've got because, 0:15:09.840 --> 0:15:12.240 as I said, ultimately it's going to be about people 0:15:12.240 --> 0:15:17.120 across this country saying, look, I don't want in America 0:15:17.560 --> 0:15:20.080 where it's all about a handful of billionaires. I want 0:15:20.080 --> 0:15:23.640 in America where we actually do invest in medical research. 0:15:23.840 --> 0:15:29.240 I want in America where actually every kid has an 0:15:29.280 --> 0:15:32.000 opportunity to go to public school, even kids who have 0:15:32.040 --> 0:15:34.840 special need to hear me talking as a special needs teacher. 0:15:35.440 --> 0:15:39.440 I want in America where we're making investments in our 0:15:39.480 --> 0:15:41.600 best resource, and that is our people. 0:15:42.080 --> 0:15:45.520 Talking to a former law professor. So Article two, Section two, 0:15:45.720 --> 0:15:48.560 Power of advice and consent. By virtue of the committees 0:15:48.560 --> 0:15:52.040 that you sit on Armed Services, Finance, Banking, you have 0:15:52.080 --> 0:15:54.080 had the ability to question a lot of these higher 0:15:54.080 --> 0:15:58.240 profile nominees. Coming up is the presence picked ahead the 0:15:58.320 --> 0:16:01.480 securious Exchange Commissions. And you've written a memo thirty four 0:16:01.480 --> 0:16:04.120 pages in length. It starts with the congressions. 0:16:03.680 --> 0:16:04.400 That average for me. 0:16:06.200 --> 0:16:08.840 You say, he has extensive experience in financial services and 0:16:08.880 --> 0:16:09.600 capital markets. 0:16:09.600 --> 0:16:11.560 But I have concerns. 0:16:11.120 --> 0:16:13.440 About your record if you tick through what he's done 0:16:13.600 --> 0:16:16.200 as an SEC staffer and commissioner, and the work that 0:16:16.240 --> 0:16:18.760 he's done since in the private sector as a consultant. 0:16:18.800 --> 0:16:21.480 He did work on behalf of FTX, the fraudulent and 0:16:21.480 --> 0:16:26.240 failed crypto conglomerate that Sam Bankman freed started. You point 0:16:26.240 --> 0:16:30.200 out things he said about crypto and climate regulations. Given 0:16:30.240 --> 0:16:32.720 all of that, is there anything that he could say 0:16:32.960 --> 0:16:35.200 to earn your vote and committee? 0:16:35.480 --> 0:16:38.160 So let me back up just a little bit. Think 0:16:38.200 --> 0:16:41.480 about the job that he's being interned top cop on 0:16:41.480 --> 0:16:44.840 Wall Street, top cop on Wall Street, and cop in 0:16:44.920 --> 0:16:48.560 two meanings of that word. One is you've got to 0:16:48.760 --> 0:16:51.760 catch the fraudsters. You've got to make sure everybody's dotting 0:16:51.800 --> 0:16:54.640 their eyes and crossing their teas, because there's a lot 0:16:54.640 --> 0:16:57.600 of value in having that stock market be an honest 0:16:57.640 --> 0:17:01.920 and level playing field. The other way in which top cop, 0:17:02.800 --> 0:17:05.960 it's to watch for risk building up in the system. 0:17:06.240 --> 0:17:09.320 It's to make sure that the regulations that are in 0:17:09.400 --> 0:17:13.719 place are appropriately calibrated to deal with those risks and 0:17:13.800 --> 0:17:18.800 beat those risks out of the system. Paul Atkins actually 0:17:18.800 --> 0:17:21.960 has a track record on exactly that issue because he 0:17:22.080 --> 0:17:26.000 served as a commissioner in the SEC from two thousand 0:17:26.040 --> 0:17:27.720 and one to two thousand and eight. 0:17:27.800 --> 0:17:29.280 You remember what you actual crisis. 0:17:29.359 --> 0:17:32.199 Yes, so here we are in lead up to the 0:17:32.200 --> 0:17:37.760 financial crisis, and over and over again, what does Paul 0:17:37.880 --> 0:17:40.920 Atkins vote for loosen the regulations? 0:17:41.320 --> 0:17:45.399 What does his nomination say to you about the regulatory 0:17:45.440 --> 0:17:46.600 framework this administration? 0:17:46.680 --> 0:17:50.000 Once, oh, I think this is entirely in keeping with 0:17:50.160 --> 0:17:53.320 what Donald Trump and Elon Musk want to see us do, 0:17:53.520 --> 0:17:58.199 and that is loosen regulations. Loosen regulations. Loosen regulations, that 0:17:58.320 --> 0:18:02.199 is what Paul Atkins did. They also said repeatedly that 0:18:02.359 --> 0:18:06.000 no regulations just get in the way. Everybody needs to 0:18:06.040 --> 0:18:08.600 do whatever they want. Those big Wall Street giants. We 0:18:08.680 --> 0:18:11.040 saw the crash in two thousand and eight, and here's 0:18:11.080 --> 0:18:14.440 what happens next. After the crash, he has the chance 0:18:14.480 --> 0:18:18.000 to have a little twenty twenty hindsight. He has twenty 0:18:18.119 --> 0:18:23.119 zero hindsight. He looks back and says, no problem with 0:18:23.280 --> 0:18:27.560 having let those giant Wall Street banks run wild, and 0:18:27.600 --> 0:18:29.919 the fact that the American taxpayer had to bail them 0:18:29.920 --> 0:18:35.600 out not a problem. That's my concern. If someone has 0:18:35.800 --> 0:18:41.600 demonstrated such poor judgment, you've got to be really worried 0:18:41.680 --> 0:18:45.159 about putting them in a job where the failure to 0:18:45.240 --> 0:18:48.720 have good judgment could be like it was back then. Remember, 0:18:49.320 --> 0:18:53.760 ten million families lost their homes, millions more people lost 0:18:53.800 --> 0:18:57.520 their jobs. We watched Wall Street do a real tank then. 0:18:58.240 --> 0:19:03.119 And here's the thing about Paul Atkins. We have both 0:19:03.680 --> 0:19:09.200 his demonstrated experience, but also look at his experience overall. 0:19:09.280 --> 0:19:12.800 So his time in government is a real problem. But 0:19:12.960 --> 0:19:17.520 now he's someone who has built a very lucrative business 0:19:18.520 --> 0:19:23.879 with Potomac Partners. He charges evidently upwards of twelve hundred 0:19:23.920 --> 0:19:28.720 dollars an hour to give advice, and he says, well, 0:19:29.040 --> 0:19:33.359 I'm going to divest this interest, but he doesn't want 0:19:33.400 --> 0:19:37.680 to tell us who he's divesting too, who's buying, and 0:19:37.760 --> 0:19:41.840 for what purposes? And what are the long term plans? 0:19:41.880 --> 0:19:46.800 Because here's the deal. SEC chairmanship doesn't last forever, right, 0:19:46.880 --> 0:19:52.119 two years, four years, maybe longer? My concern is, And 0:19:52.160 --> 0:19:55.919 so what happens on the other end. Does he just 0:19:56.000 --> 0:19:59.560 come right back out and instead of charging twelve hundred 0:19:59.560 --> 0:20:01.960 dollars now it's now twenty four hundred dollars an hour? 0:20:03.200 --> 0:20:06.200 But it's who do you work for? And why that 0:20:06.400 --> 0:20:10.760 matters is it has an effect on the time you 0:20:10.880 --> 0:20:14.679 sit as chairman of the SEC. So there he is 0:20:14.720 --> 0:20:19.040 making decisions, and I look at someone like Paul Atkins. 0:20:19.720 --> 0:20:23.800 How much time has he spent with families that are 0:20:23.800 --> 0:20:26.280 working three jobs to try to make it to the 0:20:26.400 --> 0:20:28.440 end of the month. How much time has he spent 0:20:28.480 --> 0:20:30.520 with any of those ten million people who lost their 0:20:30.520 --> 0:20:33.480 homes in the last crash? And how much time has 0:20:33.520 --> 0:20:38.359 he spent with this handful of billionaires who really, at 0:20:38.440 --> 0:20:41.720 least in the short run love these deregulated markets and 0:20:41.760 --> 0:20:46.440 taxpayer bailouts, and how much when he makes a decision 0:20:46.760 --> 0:20:49.600 is he thinking about the guy working three jobs? And 0:20:49.680 --> 0:20:54.560 how much is he thinking about his future clients whom 0:20:54.600 --> 0:20:58.199 he could please? Wileys of the SEC. So those are 0:20:58.240 --> 0:20:59.320 the problems for me. 0:21:00.080 --> 0:21:02.280 Something about which I know you're passionate is the independence 0:21:02.320 --> 0:21:05.679 of these regulatory Oh yes, you look at the SEC today. 0:21:06.000 --> 0:21:09.639 There are two Republicans on that commission, one Democrat whose 0:21:09.720 --> 0:21:11.439 term will be up soon. There's been no indication the 0:21:11.440 --> 0:21:13.840 present's going to put forward another Democratic nominee. I look 0:21:13.840 --> 0:21:16.240 at the FTC, the Federal Trade Commission, and the two 0:21:16.320 --> 0:21:19.200 Democratic members were removed by this administration. 0:21:19.240 --> 0:21:21.119 They're fighting to get back in those positions. 0:21:21.880 --> 0:21:25.200 What is the practical implication of that, not having five 0:21:25.240 --> 0:21:28.760 members in place, not having the kind of imagine ideological 0:21:28.800 --> 0:21:31.440 political diversity you would have under normal circumstances. 0:21:31.520 --> 0:21:35.560 Right. I'm glad you asked that, because it's a reminder 0:21:36.359 --> 0:21:40.800 that when those agencies were designed FTC, of course the oldest, 0:21:40.880 --> 0:21:45.720 the SEC, during the Great Depression, they were made bipartisan 0:21:45.840 --> 0:21:50.280 from the beginning, in an understanding that, yeah, it's going 0:21:50.359 --> 0:21:52.840 to move a little there's going to be a little shift, 0:21:53.680 --> 0:21:57.320 but we need buy in across the political spectrum, and 0:21:57.359 --> 0:22:03.840 we need the stability all the way through the entire system. 0:22:04.280 --> 0:22:06.560 I think of it this way, even for companies that 0:22:06.560 --> 0:22:09.440 are saying, let's de regulate, you know, turn us loose, 0:22:09.520 --> 0:22:12.679 let us do whatever we want. At the end of 0:22:12.680 --> 0:22:14.880 the day, yeah, let me feel good. In the short term, 0:22:14.920 --> 0:22:17.040 you may be able to figure out how to cut 0:22:17.080 --> 0:22:21.520 a corner here and make a little more money. But understand, 0:22:22.080 --> 0:22:25.960 the reason our stock market is so valuable is in 0:22:26.119 --> 0:22:32.760 part because it has level, transparent rules that are strictly enforced. 0:22:33.280 --> 0:22:36.160 And you start to weaken that and in the short 0:22:36.240 --> 0:22:39.399 run you may make a profit and that guy over there, 0:22:40.400 --> 0:22:43.679 but how many other people say, you know what, I 0:22:43.680 --> 0:22:45.639 don't think that's where I want to invest my money. 0:22:45.720 --> 0:22:49.000 I think I'm just going to slow down on how 0:22:49.080 --> 0:22:52.280 much of my wealth, my energy, my time, my talent 0:22:52.520 --> 0:22:56.879 I put in there. We have built a legal structure 0:22:57.560 --> 0:23:00.000 that in many ways is the envy of the world. 0:23:00.280 --> 0:23:04.560 There's a reason investment comes into the United States, and 0:23:04.560 --> 0:23:08.800 it's because you count on those structures independent of where 0:23:08.840 --> 0:23:11.440 they've got a Democrat or a Republican in the White House, 0:23:11.520 --> 0:23:16.400 the structures work when Donald Trump and Elon Musk come 0:23:16.440 --> 0:23:19.080 in and don't just say, you know, let's give a 0:23:19.080 --> 0:23:22.520 little different emphasis. But they want a chainsaw. They want 0:23:22.560 --> 0:23:25.760 to just get rid of everyone who doesn't follow their 0:23:26.240 --> 0:23:32.040 deregulatory agenda. They're boost the billionaire agenda. That's going to 0:23:32.040 --> 0:23:33.800 cost everybody in this country. 0:23:34.560 --> 0:23:36.679 Want to stick with the FTC and what happened there, 0:23:36.720 --> 0:23:38.640 because we've heard from the FED chairman with whom you've 0:23:38.640 --> 0:23:41.080 had your sheriff disagreements, I should say over policy and 0:23:41.119 --> 0:23:42.160 I ticket hearings. 0:23:43.200 --> 0:23:45.240 He's not over his independence, not over. 0:23:45.119 --> 0:23:46.880 His independence, and that's where I want to go. 0:23:47.359 --> 0:23:49.840