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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news.

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Speaker 2: I wanted to ask you, first of all about what

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Speaker 2: we've been learning about. The editor of The Atlantic found

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Speaker 2: himself in a chat with some of the most senior

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Speaker 2: members of President Trump's administration national security staff, and by

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Speaker 2: virtue of that was privy to plans for an attack

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Speaker 2: in great detail.

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Speaker 3: Your reaction to it. You sitt on the Senate Armed

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Speaker 3: Services Committee.

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Speaker 1: So let me just start with if Pete Hegseth had

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Speaker 1: a shred of self respect and decency, he would resign.

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Speaker 1: That's what leadership is about. And instead Pete Hegseth thinks

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Speaker 1: it's all about I'll point at somebody else and minimize

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Speaker 1: the problem and sweep it under the rug and deflect.

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Speaker 1: You know, I want to be a leader of the

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Speaker 1: finest armed forces in the world and step up and

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Speaker 1: take some responsibility.

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Speaker 3: Should he be fired, you talk about it. If you

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Speaker 3: won't quit, then he.

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Speaker 1: Should be fired because he has put our national security

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Speaker 1: at risk. That's part one. Part two is you realize

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Speaker 1: a bunch of this is potentially certainly breaking the law. So,

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Speaker 1: for example, because of the Freedom of Information Act, there

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Speaker 1: are laws that require that people in the administration all

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Speaker 1: of them have to preserve the records of their texting

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Speaker 1: back and forth. I know this from the days when

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Speaker 1: I served in the administration and we were carefully cautioned

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Speaker 1: about the importance of preserving records. Signal, as you know,

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Speaker 1: disappears those records. And I will say on this when

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Speaker 1: I read how casually they just formed this chat. Notice

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Speaker 1: that's how you refer to it to discuss the national

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Speaker 1: security issues and the bombing of another country. How many

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Speaker 1: other times so are they using signal and what are

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Speaker 1: they using it for? So this is a moment. We

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Speaker 1: need some of those congressional investigations. We need a hearing

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Speaker 1: in the Senate, we need a hearing in the House.

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Speaker 1: I remember all of the hearings before when there was

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Speaker 1: a question about Hillary Clinton's emails. I want to run

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Speaker 1: the tape on how many Republicans talked about the importance

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Speaker 1: of accountability and getting to the bottom of this. Where

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Speaker 1: are they right now? I'm ready for those hearings, and

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Speaker 1: the FBI needs to step up.

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Speaker 2: This was a chat that was organized by Mike Waltz,

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Speaker 2: the president national security advisor, and he addressed this in

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Speaker 2: an interview on Fox News.

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Speaker 3: Here's what he said. We made a mistake. We're moving forward.

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Speaker 2: I noted that Biden large the response for the administration

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Speaker 2: has been there wasn't classified information here, And as a

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Speaker 2: result of that, the Atlantic release screenshots of a lot

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Speaker 2: of these conversations. We learned that there was information about

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Speaker 2: planes timing of this attack. You talk about the need

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Speaker 2: for hearings. Are you optimistic that that's going to happen

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Speaker 2: and that you're going to.

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Speaker 3: Get to the bottom of what was in fact discussed

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Speaker 3: on that chat.

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Speaker 1: So I think this is a question fundamentally about where

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Speaker 1: is power in this country. I get it elections, we

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Speaker 1: pick a president. President picks a team, and that's where

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Speaker 1: power resigns in terms of the execution day to day

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Speaker 1: of various policies. But ultimately it's people across this country.

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Speaker 1: And when people across this country said, wait a minute,

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Speaker 1: the Secretary of Defense, I mean this is this is

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Speaker 1: not some random guy off the streets who stumbled across

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Speaker 1: some secret information and kind of didn't know how to

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Speaker 1: handle it. This is the Secretary of Defense. And the

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Speaker 1: Secretary of Defense went right along with exchanging this information

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Speaker 1: in a place that is not secure. Again, I just

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Speaker 1: got to stress over here, we want to look at

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Speaker 1: any secret information, any confidential and information, any classified information,

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Speaker 1: you got to go do onto a secure location to

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Speaker 1: do it. You physically have to go, and you have

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Speaker 1: to hand over your phone. By the way, somebody stands

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Speaker 1: at the door and says, do you have any electronic

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Speaker 1: devices on? And you've got to say no, I don't

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Speaker 1: before you're allowed to go. Pencil and paper. Is how

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Speaker 1: high tech they get because of the importance of protecting

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Speaker 1: candid conversations that need to occur, and those candid conversations

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Speaker 1: need to be shielded from the rest of the world.

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Speaker 1: When the White House wants to say nothing to see here,

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Speaker 1: just flip it the other direction and ask yourself if

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Speaker 1: the Atlantic had called the White House and said, let

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Speaker 1: me show you what we've got in advance of the bombing,

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Speaker 1: you guys, okay, if we put it up on our website,

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Speaker 1: how many heart attacks would there have been over at

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Speaker 1: the White House saying no, no, no, no, no, you

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Speaker 1: can't do that. Well, if it wouldn't have been okay

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Speaker 1: for the Atlantic to publish all of that in advance,

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Speaker 1: you gotta worry it's not published on a website. But

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Speaker 1: I don't know who's listening on signal, the Chinese, the

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Speaker 1: North Koreans, the Russians, some other bad actors out there.

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Speaker 1: It is important that we follow through as a nation

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Speaker 1: and say, look, you put our whole country at risk,

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Speaker 1: our allies. I'm getting asked in the hallways by foreign reporters,

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Speaker 1: can we actually trust the United States of America if

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Speaker 1: we tell secrets and they're going to end up on

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Speaker 1: some signal chat with the Secretary of Defense. So there

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Speaker 1: needs to be an investigation, but there needs to be

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Speaker 1: some accountability, and the accountability should start right now. Hegsas

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Speaker 1: should resign, and if you won't do that, then Trump

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Speaker 1: should fire them. He knows how to say you're fired.

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Speaker 2: I want to ask you at the moment that we're in,

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Speaker 2: this is your part of that moment. We're two months

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Speaker 2: into this administration's tenure. How are you thinking about the

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Speaker 2: role of the Democratic Party in this moment?

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Speaker 3: And just it's gravity overall for the country itself.

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Speaker 1: So let's set the table for this moment. Donald Trump

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Speaker 1: ran for office saying over and over and over and

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Speaker 1: over and over, I will lower costs on day one.

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Speaker 1: Those are his words, not mine. I have a lower

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Speaker 1: costs on day one. He said that to millions and

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Speaker 1: millions of people, and right after he got elected, he

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Speaker 1: was interviewed his very first interview, he said that's how

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Speaker 1: I got elected, was saying I'm going to lower costs

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Speaker 1: Onnday one. So here we are two months in. He

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Speaker 1: has done nothing to lower costs. I mean no, all

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Speaker 1: that's happening is we're watching places where costs are going up, up, up.

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Speaker 1: But he and his co president Elon Musk, have been

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Speaker 1: out there with a chainsaw moving through government, trying to

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Speaker 1: fire the financial cops, for example, by trying to shut

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Speaker 1: down the Consumer Financial protect Bureau, laying off tens of

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Speaker 1: thousands of federal workers who kind of do the job

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Speaker 1: of Social Security making sure people get their Social Security

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Speaker 1: checks each month, ending contracts for medical research. So there's this,

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Speaker 1: and playing red light green light with tariffs, right, yes

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Speaker 1: there's a tariff, No, there's not a tariff, right, playing

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Speaker 1: that game. So it's important to remember we're in a

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Speaker 1: system right now that is deeply chaotic. I think of

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Speaker 1: that like a sand storm. You know, the sand is

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Speaker 1: blowing everywhere. I have. The job at the Democratic Party

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Speaker 1: right now is to say there's a lot going on.

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Speaker 1: We are in the fight. We are in the fight

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Speaker 1: to save social security. We are in these fights, but

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Speaker 1: to pull back and to look at the bigger picture.

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Speaker 1: The media will do the day by day fights, but

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Speaker 1: our job is to pull back and the bigger picture

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Speaker 1: is that other promise that Donald Trump made when he

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Speaker 1: was running for president. Remember to millions of people, he said,

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Speaker 1: I will cut your costs. On day one. To a

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Speaker 1: handful of what he called his richest held donors, he said,

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Speaker 1: I'm going to give you tax breaks like you've never

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Speaker 1: seen before. So right now, Trump, the Republicans, and the

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Speaker 1: billionaires are working together to move forward on a tax

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Speaker 1: giveaway of about four point seven billion dollars, mostly sucked

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Speaker 1: up by billionaires billionaire corporations and then paid for on

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Speaker 1: the backs of elderly people in nursing homes who will

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Speaker 1: lose federal support. Your neighbor down the street who has

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Speaker 1: a disability and needs a home health aid paid for

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Speaker 1: by the federal government. Kids in public school who need help,

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Speaker 1: and those public schools need help cutting scientific research and

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Speaker 1: medical research. And that sets up what this fight is

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Speaker 1: all about. Are we going to be a nation that

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Speaker 1: hands over four point seven trillion dollars in giveaways to

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Speaker 1: a handful of billionaires and makes everybody else pay for it.

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Speaker 1: Are we going to be a nation that says no

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Speaker 1: to tax cuts for those guys and says we're going

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Speaker 1: to invest in America where everybody gets an opportunity.

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Speaker 2: The leader of Democrats and the Senate, Chuck Schumer, has

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Speaker 2: a book out, so he's been talking a lot in

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Speaker 2: Something he's brought up over and over again is he

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Speaker 2: doesn't think that we're at a constitutional crisis yet. I

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Speaker 2: wonder if you agree with him in that regard, and

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Speaker 2: if so, what is the threshold when we would be

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Speaker 2: phasing one?

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Speaker 1: So I have to say, before we got here in

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Speaker 1: the last two months, I would have described a constitutional

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Speaker 1: crisis is like a light switch. You're not in one,

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Speaker 1: you're not in one, You're not in one of them,

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Speaker 1: all of a sudden you are in one. I've come

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Speaker 1: to think of that that differently. When you've got a

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Speaker 1: president just right out of the chalks says, yeah, I

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Speaker 1: know the Constitution says earthright citizenship, but constitutions constitution, I

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Speaker 1: don't have to pay attention to that. When you've got

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Speaker 1: a president that has a co president who poses with

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Speaker 1: a chainsaw and has a job in government, doesn't have

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Speaker 1: a job in government, fires people illegally, tries to shut

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Speaker 1: down agencies, illegally, cuts off contracts illegally. In other words,

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Speaker 1: shows a hostility to the law. That's deeply worrisome. So

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Speaker 1: I worry that we move increasingly toward an administration that's

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Speaker 1: not just saying I'm going to be a more robust president.

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Speaker 1: And I get it. Presidents look at this differently, some

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Speaker 1: a little stronger, some a little weaker. But a president

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Speaker 1: that says there are no constraints on me, and that

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Speaker 1: takes me back to constitutional law one oh one. Legislature

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Speaker 1: writes those laws. That's our part. Congress, the administration, President

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Speaker 1: and those who work in the administration administer those laws.

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Speaker 1: And the courts have the responsibility if the administration steps

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Speaker 1: out of line to say you violated the law. We

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Speaker 1: keep all three parts in balance. And I'm watching Donald

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Speaker 1: Trump and Elon Musk say no, there are not three

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Speaker 1: equal branches of government. It's just one that smells a

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Speaker 1: lot like a constitutional crisis.

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Speaker 2: We've just been through a moment when Republicans wrote a

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Speaker 2: continuing resolution and Chuck Schumer said the Democrats had supported

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Speaker 2: he did. You did not, I should say, you did

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Speaker 2: a town hall in Lowell, Massachusetts. WBR was there and

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Speaker 2: recorded it, and I got tape of what you said.

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Speaker 2: I think Chuck Schumer is wrong. You didn't linger on that,

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Speaker 2: and I wonder if you might hear, just for a moment,

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Speaker 2: was he wrong about the political calculation? Spell out for

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Speaker 2: me what you disagreed about that he did.

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Speaker 3: In particular, I.

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Speaker 1: Think there's a moment when his stand and fight, and

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Speaker 1: for me, that moment came with a continuing resolution.

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Speaker 3: It was a squaded opportunity to do so.

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Speaker 1: It's more than that. Understand, Let's go back to what

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Speaker 1: we're talking. What is the big fight right now? The

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Speaker 1: big fight is going to be whether or not the

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Speaker 1: billionaires and Donald Trump and Elon Musk are just going

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Speaker 1: to take over our country and run it to suit themselves,

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Speaker 1: make everybody else pay for it. That's what the budget

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Speaker 1: is all about. We do a lot of other things

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Speaker 1: in Washington, but you want to know our values. Take

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Speaker 1: a look at the budget, and so the question becomes,

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Speaker 1: in this fight, we got to stop and draw the

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Speaker 1: line and say it's time. It's time for us to

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Speaker 1: fight back. It's time to call on people of the

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Speaker 1: United States, because that whole constitutional structure that I was

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Speaker 1: talking about, the three parts of government, all rest ultimately

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Speaker 1: on the people, and it is time to have that fight.

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Speaker 2: Did it cause you to reevaluate your faith and confidence

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Speaker 2: in Senator Schumer is a leader of Democrats in the Senate.

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Speaker 1: I want to be clear, we are heading into a

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Speaker 1: fight where we need every single Democrat pointed the same way.

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Speaker 1: We may still be bumping around on exactly what the

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Speaker 1: timing is going to be on that fight, exactly where

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Speaker 1: the trigger point is going to be, but there is

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Speaker 1: no doubt in the United States Senate, the forty seven

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Speaker 1: of us are locked arms and moving in the same direction.

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Speaker 1: And the same is true over in the House. This

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Speaker 1: fight is on top of us. We cannot avoid this

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Speaker 1: fight because Donald Trump and Elon Musk, truly they want

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Speaker 1: to take this country over for just a handful of people,

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Speaker 1: and they want even more wealth and more power to

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Speaker 1: go to them. Well, everybody else has to pay for it.

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Speaker 1: That is the fight.

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Speaker 2: Last question on this subject, sure, what is your role

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Speaker 2: as you see it in that fight? You write a

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Speaker 2: lot of letters to administration officials, you speak out quite

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Speaker 2: a bit, You are somebod I think identifiable with this

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Speaker 2: oversight fight and struggle with the administration. How do you

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Speaker 2: see your role in the Democratic Party broadly today?

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Speaker 1: But I look at what are the tools in my toolbox.

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Speaker 1: I'll use every one of them that I possibly can.

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Speaker 1: Oversight is a big part. This is part of your

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Speaker 1: job when you're a senator, and that is to look

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Speaker 1: at the agencies, to ask questions of these nominees, to

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Speaker 1: get them on the record, to press them, to ask

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Speaker 1: for investigations. This is why we need inspectors General. This

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Speaker 1: is why we need an active GAO. This is why

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Speaker 1: we need an FBI that is still functional. It's partly

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Speaker 1: just to say we already have laws, and for the

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Speaker 1: damn laws, make sure that people are doing that. That's

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Speaker 1: part of my job. Part of my job is to

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Speaker 1: be in the fight to give it everything I've got because,

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Speaker 1: as I said, ultimately it's going to be about people

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Speaker 1: across this country saying, look, I don't want in America

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Speaker 1: where it's all about a handful of billionaires. I want

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Speaker 1: in America where we actually do invest in medical research.

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Speaker 1: I want in America where actually every kid has an

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Speaker 1: opportunity to go to public school, even kids who have

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Speaker 1: special need to hear me talking as a special needs teacher.

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Speaker 1: I want in America where we're making investments in our

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Speaker 1: best resource, and that is our people.

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Speaker 2: Talking to a former law professor. So Article two, Section two,

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Speaker 2: Power of advice and consent. By virtue of the committees

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Speaker 2: that you sit on Armed Services, Finance, Banking, you have

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Speaker 2: had the ability to question a lot of these higher

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Speaker 2: profile nominees. Coming up is the presence picked ahead the

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Speaker 2: securious Exchange Commissions. And you've written a memo thirty four

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Speaker 2: pages in length. It starts with the congressions.

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Speaker 1: That average for me.

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Speaker 2: You say, he has extensive experience in financial services and

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Speaker 2: capital markets.

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Speaker 3: But I have concerns.

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Speaker 2: About your record if you tick through what he's done

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Speaker 2: as an SEC staffer and commissioner, and the work that

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Speaker 2: he's done since in the private sector as a consultant.

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Speaker 2: He did work on behalf of FTX, the fraudulent and

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Speaker 2: failed crypto conglomerate that Sam Bankman freed started. You point

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Speaker 2: out things he said about crypto and climate regulations. Given

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Speaker 2: all of that, is there anything that he could say

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Speaker 2: to earn your vote and committee?

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Speaker 1: So let me back up just a little bit. Think

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Speaker 1: about the job that he's being interned top cop on

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Speaker 1: Wall Street, top cop on Wall Street, and cop in

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Speaker 1: two meanings of that word. One is you've got to

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Speaker 1: catch the fraudsters. You've got to make sure everybody's dotting

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Speaker 1: their eyes and crossing their teas, because there's a lot

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Speaker 1: of value in having that stock market be an honest

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Speaker 1: and level playing field. The other way in which top cop,

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Speaker 1: it's to watch for risk building up in the system.

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Speaker 1: It's to make sure that the regulations that are in

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Speaker 1: place are appropriately calibrated to deal with those risks and

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Speaker 1: beat those risks out of the system. Paul Atkins actually

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Speaker 1: has a track record on exactly that issue because he

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Speaker 1: served as a commissioner in the SEC from two thousand

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Speaker 1: and one to two thousand and eight.

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Speaker 3: You remember what you actual crisis.

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Speaker 1: Yes, so here we are in lead up to the

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Speaker 1: financial crisis, and over and over again, what does Paul

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Speaker 1: Atkins vote for loosen the regulations?

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Speaker 2: What does his nomination say to you about the regulatory

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Speaker 2: framework this administration?

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Speaker 1: Once, oh, I think this is entirely in keeping with

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Speaker 1: what Donald Trump and Elon Musk want to see us do,

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Speaker 1: and that is loosen regulations. Loosen regulations. Loosen regulations, that

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Speaker 1: is what Paul Atkins did. They also said repeatedly that

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Speaker 1: no regulations just get in the way. Everybody needs to

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Speaker 1: do whatever they want. Those big Wall Street giants. We

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Speaker 1: saw the crash in two thousand and eight, and here's

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Speaker 1: what happens next. After the crash, he has the chance

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Speaker 1: to have a little twenty twenty hindsight. He has twenty

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Speaker 1: zero hindsight. He looks back and says, no problem with

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Speaker 1: having let those giant Wall Street banks run wild, and

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Speaker 1: the fact that the American taxpayer had to bail them

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Speaker 1: out not a problem. That's my concern. If someone has

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Speaker 1: demonstrated such poor judgment, you've got to be really worried

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Speaker 1: about putting them in a job where the failure to

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Speaker 1: have good judgment could be like it was back then. Remember,

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Speaker 1: ten million families lost their homes, millions more people lost

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Speaker 1: their jobs. We watched Wall Street do a real tank then.

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Speaker 1: And here's the thing about Paul Atkins. We have both

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Speaker 1: his demonstrated experience, but also look at his experience overall.

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Speaker 1: So his time in government is a real problem. But

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Speaker 1: now he's someone who has built a very lucrative business

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Speaker 1: with Potomac Partners. He charges evidently upwards of twelve hundred

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Speaker 1: dollars an hour to give advice, and he says, well,

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Speaker 1: I'm going to divest this interest, but he doesn't want

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Speaker 1: to tell us who he's divesting too, who's buying, and

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Speaker 1: for what purposes? And what are the long term plans?

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Speaker 1: Because here's the deal. SEC chairmanship doesn't last forever, right,

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Speaker 1: two years, four years, maybe longer? My concern is, And

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Speaker 1: so what happens on the other end. Does he just

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Speaker 1: come right back out and instead of charging twelve hundred

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Speaker 1: dollars now it's now twenty four hundred dollars an hour?

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Speaker 1: But it's who do you work for? And why that

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Speaker 1: matters is it has an effect on the time you

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Speaker 1: sit as chairman of the SEC. So there he is

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Speaker 1: making decisions, and I look at someone like Paul Atkins.

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Speaker 1: How much time has he spent with families that are

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Speaker 1: working three jobs to try to make it to the

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Speaker 1: end of the month. How much time has he spent

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Speaker 1: with any of those ten million people who lost their

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Speaker 1: homes in the last crash? And how much time has

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Speaker 1: he spent with this handful of billionaires who really, at

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Speaker 1: least in the short run love these deregulated markets and

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Speaker 1: taxpayer bailouts, and how much when he makes a decision

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Speaker 1: is he thinking about the guy working three jobs? And

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Speaker 1: how much is he thinking about his future clients whom

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Speaker 1: he could please? Wileys of the SEC. So those are

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Speaker 1: the problems for me.

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Speaker 2: Something about which I know you're passionate is the independence

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Speaker 2: of these regulatory Oh yes, you look at the SEC today.

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Speaker 2: There are two Republicans on that commission, one Democrat whose

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Speaker 2: term will be up soon. There's been no indication the

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Speaker 2: present's going to put forward another Democratic nominee. I look

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Speaker 2: at the FTC, the Federal Trade Commission, and the two

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Speaker 2: Democratic members were removed by this administration.

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Speaker 3: They're fighting to get back in those positions.

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Speaker 2: What is the practical implication of that, not having five

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Speaker 2: members in place, not having the kind of imagine ideological

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Speaker 2: political diversity you would have under normal circumstances.

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Speaker 1: Right. I'm glad you asked that, because it's a reminder

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Speaker 1: that when those agencies were designed FTC, of course the oldest,

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Speaker 1: the SEC, during the Great Depression, they were made bipartisan

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Speaker 1: from the beginning, in an understanding that, yeah, it's going

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Speaker 1: to move a little there's going to be a little shift,

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Speaker 1: but we need buy in across the political spectrum, and

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Speaker 1: we need the stability all the way through the entire system.

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Speaker 1: I think of it this way, even for companies that

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Speaker 1: are saying, let's de regulate, you know, turn us loose,

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Speaker 1: let us do whatever we want. At the end of

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Speaker 1: the day, yeah, let me feel good. In the short term,

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Speaker 1: you may be able to figure out how to cut

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Speaker 1: a corner here and make a little more money. But understand,

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Speaker 1: the reason our stock market is so valuable is in

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Speaker 1: part because it has level, transparent rules that are strictly enforced.

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Speaker 1: And you start to weaken that and in the short

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Speaker 1: run you may make a profit and that guy over there,

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Speaker 1: but how many other people say, you know what, I

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Speaker 1: don't think that's where I want to invest my money.

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Speaker 1: I think I'm just going to slow down on how

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Speaker 1: much of my wealth, my energy, my time, my talent

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Speaker 1: I put in there. We have built a legal structure

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Speaker 1: that in many ways is the envy of the world.

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Speaker 1: There's a reason investment comes into the United States, and

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Speaker 1: it's because you count on those structures independent of where

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Speaker 1: they've got a Democrat or a Republican in the White House,

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Speaker 1: the structures work when Donald Trump and Elon Musk come

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Speaker 1: in and don't just say, you know, let's give a

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Speaker 1: little different emphasis. But they want a chainsaw. They want

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Speaker 1: to just get rid of everyone who doesn't follow their

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Speaker 1: deregulatory agenda. They're boost the billionaire agenda. That's going to

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Speaker 1: cost everybody in this country.

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Speaker 2: Want to stick with the FTC and what happened there,

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Speaker 2: because we've heard from the FED chairman with whom you've

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Speaker 2: had your sheriff disagreements, I should say over policy and

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Speaker 2: I ticket hearings.

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Speaker 1: He's not over his independence, not over.

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Speaker 3: His independence, and that's where I want to go.

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Speaker 2: Should he be worried as he watches what happened at

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Speaker 2: the FTC about his and his colleagues ability to keep

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Speaker 2: their positions in the Federal Reserve?

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Speaker 1: I want to say, no, he shouldn't be worried because

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Speaker 1: I stand staunchly behind the independence of the FED, But

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Speaker 1: damn I stand staunchly behind the independence of the FTC

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Speaker 1: and behind the independence of the SEC within their statutory neighborhoods.

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Speaker 1: But that's the question. If Donald Trump can just start

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Speaker 1: getting rid of everyone who disagrees with him anywhere in government,

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Speaker 1: for me, it started actually with the inspectors General. If

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Speaker 1: he can just fire those inspectors General, even though the

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Speaker 1: statutes say that they have job protection and can only

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Speaker 1: be fired for cause, If he can just mow through

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Speaker 1: every civil servant, if he can just mow through the

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Speaker 1: Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, it's a form of lawlessness and

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Speaker 1: all the power belongs to the king that it suggests

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Speaker 1: nobody is safe, not even the chairman of the Federal Reserve.

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Speaker 2: I want to guess that the person you'd most like

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Speaker 2: to have in a seat in front of you in

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Speaker 2: a hearing room is Elon Musk, of course, not a

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Speaker 2: cabinet appointee.

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Speaker 1: In fact, what is he? Can you just tell me?

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Speaker 1: I recurt here it documents, and I hear that he's nothing.

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Speaker 1: He's just the guy who stands her in the White House.

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Speaker 2: But it gets to this issue of who does hold

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Speaker 2: him to account? And in your capacity as senior center

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Speaker 2: from Massachusetts, ranking member of the banking how do you

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Speaker 2: get answers from somebody who again has no official position,

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Speaker 2: traditional official position, but is doing so much to reshape

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Speaker 2: the bureaucratic landscape, the regulatory landscape, in fact, the whole government.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so let me do two parts here. The first

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Speaker 1: one is, I want to remind you after Donald Trump

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Speaker 1: was elected, one of the very first letters I wrote

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Speaker 1: was to Elon Musk and I said, I've read the declaration.

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Speaker 1: You want to cut two trillion dollars from the budget,

436
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Speaker 1: which he then trimmed down to a trillion, which he

437
00:25:52,040 --> 00:25:54,040
Speaker 1: then trimmed down to half trillion. I said, don't give up,

438
00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:57,879
Speaker 1: don't give up. You can cut two trillion dollars in

439
00:25:58,400 --> 00:26:01,639
Speaker 1: waste and fat out of the And here's a list

440
00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:04,879
Speaker 1: of thirty things that I've been working on for a

441
00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:07,040
Speaker 1: long time here in Congress that I've seen kind of

442
00:26:07,040 --> 00:26:10,800
Speaker 1: an insider's view on some of this, places where we

443
00:26:10,840 --> 00:26:15,400
Speaker 1: could make cuts that would make our government actually more efficient,

444
00:26:15,600 --> 00:26:18,879
Speaker 1: that would make our government work better. You want to

445
00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:20,800
Speaker 1: go to work, I'm ready. I'm ready. And you don't

446
00:26:20,800 --> 00:26:23,560
Speaker 1: have to promise to do all thirty just pick any

447
00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:25,720
Speaker 1: of them. This is a menu, Just take whatever you

448
00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:31,240
Speaker 1: like on this no answer. And instead he goes out

449
00:26:31,280 --> 00:26:34,640
Speaker 1: and just starts firing people. And now this moves into

450
00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:36,439
Speaker 1: the second part of the answer. He does things that

451
00:26:36,440 --> 00:26:40,480
Speaker 1: are illegal, and there's just not much doubt about this.

452
00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:46,320
Speaker 1: He fires people who under law have certain job protections,

453
00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:48,439
Speaker 1: can only be fired in certain ways. He goes out

454
00:26:48,480 --> 00:26:52,359
Speaker 1: there and cancels contracts government contracts that can only be

455
00:26:52,520 --> 00:26:56,399
Speaker 1: canceled by a federal contracting official. I mean, look at

456
00:26:56,400 --> 00:27:00,480
Speaker 1: the laws, just boring old laws about this stuff. So

457
00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:04,879
Speaker 1: what we have is a lawlessness that has been set

458
00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:15,040
Speaker 1: through our entire government. And this is a threat to democracy.

459
00:27:15,119 --> 00:27:18,320
Speaker 1: It is also a threat to our economy. You can't

460
00:27:18,359 --> 00:27:22,520
Speaker 1: build a strong and stable economy in the middle of this.

461
00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:27,000
Speaker 1: It is also a threat, damn it, to good government.

462
00:27:27,359 --> 00:27:29,320
Speaker 1: I go back to my list. There are things I

463
00:27:29,359 --> 00:27:31,639
Speaker 1: really wanted to cut toa something else I want to do.

464
00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:34,879
Speaker 1: I think we ought to have simpler regulations. I'm not

465
00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:38,439
Speaker 1: a no regulations gal, but I am definitely there are

466
00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:41,440
Speaker 1: a lot of places we should simplify our regulations, make

467
00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:46,320
Speaker 1: them clearer, easier to understand. There are things we could

468
00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:48,760
Speaker 1: do to run this government better. And in that sense,

469
00:27:48,840 --> 00:27:51,119
Speaker 1: I want to cheer when someone says I want to

470
00:27:51,119 --> 00:27:54,720
Speaker 1: be a reformer, but you got to be a reformer

471
00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:59,679
Speaker 1: within the law that is possible. Right now, Republicans are

472
00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:01,960
Speaker 1: inc of the House, the Senate, of the White House.

473
00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:03,040
Speaker 3: You guys want to.

474
00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:07,359
Speaker 1: Do reform pass some damn laws, but do not set

475
00:28:07,359 --> 00:28:11,560
Speaker 1: Elon Musk to take a chainsaw of cancer research in

476
00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:16,360
Speaker 1: America and put old people out of the nursing homes

477
00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:20,399
Speaker 1: that they're in. That is not how America builds a future,

478
00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:23,119
Speaker 1: and frankly, that is not the kind of people we

479
00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:23,600
Speaker 1: want to be.

480
00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:27,040
Speaker 2: Last question here, we've talked about the three branches of government.

481
00:28:27,119 --> 00:28:29,920
Speaker 2: Let me ask you about the judicial one in particular,

482
00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:32,880
Speaker 2: drawing from your experience again as a professor of law,

483
00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:35,720
Speaker 2: are you confident that the courts will be able to

484
00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:37,800
Speaker 2: keep up with all of the challenges that we've seen here?

485
00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:39,920
Speaker 2: There has been this flurry, the sandstorm, as you described it.

486
00:28:40,120 --> 00:28:41,200
Speaker 2: Can the courts keep up?

487
00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:44,560
Speaker 1: It's tough. Look, we're at over one hundred lawsuits. I

488
00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:47,400
Speaker 1: no longer can keep the number in my head because

489
00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:52,320
Speaker 1: it keeps shifting up. But the judges by and large

490
00:28:52,520 --> 00:28:57,880
Speaker 1: have stepped up. Courts are designed to go slowly right,

491
00:28:58,160 --> 00:29:02,400
Speaker 1: and Elon Musk is fast. Right. You can break laws

492
00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:06,680
Speaker 1: a lot faster than you can actually hold people accountable

493
00:29:06,720 --> 00:29:10,520
Speaker 1: for that. But at the end of the day, the

494
00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:15,400
Speaker 1: three parts of government. Congress writes those laws, the administration

495
00:29:16,040 --> 00:29:19,960
Speaker 1: administers those laws. We count on the courts to hold

496
00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:24,200
Speaker 1: the first two to their roles. I think the judges

497
00:29:24,280 --> 00:29:30,000
Speaker 1: are stepping up, so I say this half out of

498
00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:34,880
Speaker 1: hope but half out of conviction. I still believe in

499
00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:37,840
Speaker 1: the Constitution of the United States. I think most judges do,

500
00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:39,080
Speaker 1: and I think they're going to hold