WEBVTT - What are think tanks all about? 0:00:01.120 --> 0:00:04.560 Welcome to Stuff you Should Know from how Stuff Works 0:00:04.600 --> 0:00:14.120 dot com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark, 0:00:14.160 --> 0:00:16.759 and there's Charles W. Chuck Bryant and Jerry's over there 0:00:17.200 --> 0:00:20.360 actually sitting in today, and uh, this is stuff you 0:00:20.360 --> 0:00:23.960 should know about. Think tanks, the thinking this kind of tanks. 0:00:23.960 --> 0:00:26.600 There are fish tanks. They don't think at all, well, 0:00:26.640 --> 0:00:30.360 they barely think. They think, this water feels a little 0:00:30.400 --> 0:00:33.160 warm for me, and then they think what's water, what's 0:00:33.200 --> 0:00:36.239 being wet? And then that's about it. And then they're like, 0:00:36.240 --> 0:00:38.720 how about some of those tasty flakes? Yeah, give me some, 0:00:39.360 --> 0:00:43.200 and that's it. Think tanks. There's a lot more thinking 0:00:43.240 --> 0:00:45.680 going on in these kind of tanks. Like stink tanks, 0:00:46.040 --> 0:00:51.240 it depends on your opinion, and uh that's everybody's opinion. 0:00:51.320 --> 0:00:53.440 So yes, I guess they are more like stink tanks 0:00:53.479 --> 0:00:56.480 these days. This is one of those weird ones where 0:00:56.520 --> 0:01:01.320 I for forty seven years just sort of had this, 0:01:02.960 --> 0:01:06.000 never dug in on what a think tank was. I 0:01:06.080 --> 0:01:07.560 hear it, and now it kind of assumed I knew 0:01:07.560 --> 0:01:10.240 what it was. That was kind of right. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 0:01:10.280 --> 0:01:12.680 it's a good it's a good term for something. Yeah, 0:01:12.680 --> 0:01:14.320 I was like, within this is this like a bunch 0:01:14.319 --> 0:01:18.280 of smart people sitting around think thinking about smart stuff? Exactly. 0:01:18.400 --> 0:01:21.480 That's kind of right, That's exactly what it is. It's like, 0:01:21.760 --> 0:01:24.920 it's like a place where people sit around and think 0:01:24.959 --> 0:01:30.800 about things that eventually hopefully affects public policy in a 0:01:30.880 --> 0:01:33.920 positive way. Is what you're ultimately hoping for. Yeah, and 0:01:33.959 --> 0:01:36.640 b I think we don't mean if you went by 0:01:36.640 --> 0:01:38.760 a think tank, they would all just be sitting around. 0:01:40.040 --> 0:01:42.680 M hmmm. I think it depends on the day of 0:01:42.720 --> 0:01:44.720 the week or if it's right after lunch, like there's 0:01:44.760 --> 0:01:48.600 a ton of research and study. Oh, I see stuff 0:01:48.640 --> 0:01:51.320 like that. They're not just pulling stuff out of thin air. No. No, 0:01:51.560 --> 0:01:54.040 that's the point of think tanks is they are groups 0:01:54.080 --> 0:01:57.680 of people, UM nonprofit organizations in the US we should 0:01:57.680 --> 0:01:59.880 say yeah, which will get to the finer points of 0:02:01.040 --> 0:02:05.160 UM who say, you know what, we see this problem 0:02:05.200 --> 0:02:09.200 in America and or the world or wherever. Great Britain 0:02:09.200 --> 0:02:12.239 has plenty China has a bunch, and they say, how 0:02:12.280 --> 0:02:14.680 can we solve this problem. Let's get to it. We're 0:02:14.680 --> 0:02:17.400 gonna we're gonna take this problem on and figure it 0:02:17.440 --> 0:02:23.600 out through pragmatic science and evidence based research. We're going 0:02:23.600 --> 0:02:26.160 to come up with a solution to this problem. And 0:02:26.200 --> 0:02:29.160 then the next step is to get it out there 0:02:29.400 --> 0:02:32.280 to the public, to policy makers, to get people talking 0:02:32.280 --> 0:02:34.799 about it. And then once enough people talk about it 0:02:35.160 --> 0:02:38.120 and there's a public debate over it, ideally, if it's 0:02:38.120 --> 0:02:41.560 a good idea, it will be adopted as public policy 0:02:41.880 --> 0:02:44.520 and that problem will be solved in a in a 0:02:44.560 --> 0:02:49.440 good way. Yeah, And that's the ideal function of a 0:02:49.440 --> 0:02:53.520 an ideal think tank, which is to say it is nonpartisan, 0:02:54.040 --> 0:02:58.919 it is fact based, and it doesn't have an agenda necessarily. 0:02:59.600 --> 0:03:02.799 But things have changed over the years, as we will 0:03:02.800 --> 0:03:07.440 see fairly recently, Chuck seems like and and think tanks 0:03:07.520 --> 0:03:11.160 can be very much slanted. But well, we'll get into 0:03:11.200 --> 0:03:13.080 all that. That's just sort of a long winded setup. 0:03:13.880 --> 0:03:15.720 That was a good set up, though, Man, should we 0:03:15.760 --> 0:03:21.400 go back and check on oural buddy Plato. Yeah, so 0:03:21.520 --> 0:03:26.000 Plato his academy. The Academy was some people say it 0:03:26.040 --> 0:03:29.560 was sort of the world's first think tank, which makes sense. Yeah, 0:03:29.840 --> 0:03:32.520 he would get dudes and they would sit around in 0:03:32.520 --> 0:03:36.240 the garden and I would imagine drink wine and talk 0:03:36.320 --> 0:03:41.640 smarts and philosophy and kind of you know, like it 0:03:41.720 --> 0:03:44.840 was high minded stuff for the day to sit around 0:03:44.840 --> 0:03:47.520 and think about sort of what was going on around 0:03:47.520 --> 0:03:51.160 them and how they could impact change. Yeah, or thinking 0:03:51.200 --> 0:03:56.120 about the nature of reality or existence. Um, they once 0:03:56.160 --> 0:04:00.480 decided that knowledge was uncertain and life is essentially craps 0:04:00.520 --> 0:04:04.720 game based on probability rather than absolute truth. If you 0:04:04.760 --> 0:04:07.080 step back and think about it, that is the basis 0:04:07.520 --> 0:04:12.040 of quantum mechanics. Could you imagine if they had access 0:04:12.080 --> 0:04:15.360 to LSD back then, I know, I don't think it 0:04:15.360 --> 0:04:18.200 would have been too terribly different. Well, yeah, they were 0:04:18.200 --> 0:04:20.320 sort of traveling down that road anyway, but that was 0:04:20.520 --> 0:04:22.960 I mean, that's that's pretty impressive some of the stuff 0:04:23.000 --> 0:04:24.640 they came up with. This is again, you know, we 0:04:24.720 --> 0:04:29.039 did a skeptics episode. Skepticism episode, you know, um, I'm sorry, 0:04:29.040 --> 0:04:33.560 not skepticism, a stoicism. And remember is this is where 0:04:33.600 --> 0:04:36.839 this stuff was. All these different philosophies were all like 0:04:36.920 --> 0:04:39.920 kind of grew from this academy. So you can make 0:04:39.920 --> 0:04:42.080 a pretty good case that it was the world's first 0:04:42.200 --> 0:04:45.320 think tank. Yeah, it's a little it's not the first 0:04:45.360 --> 0:04:47.800 modern think tank, but it it qualifies in a lot 0:04:47.880 --> 0:04:50.520 of ways. No, there was one in eight thirty one, 0:04:50.680 --> 0:04:54.360 in Great Britain, the Duke of Wellington established what was 0:04:54.400 --> 0:04:59.400 called the Royal United Services Institution, which studied like military science. Yeah. 0:04:59.440 --> 0:05:02.400 And then here in the US in nineteen ten, the 0:05:02.440 --> 0:05:06.039 Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, which studied the results of 0:05:06.080 --> 0:05:10.840 military science. Right, and that's still around, uh, Carnegie man, 0:05:10.880 --> 0:05:15.320 I mean they still have endowed many things. Yeah, they're 0:05:15.360 --> 0:05:20.320 well in doubt that they are very well in doubt. Uh. 0:05:20.360 --> 0:05:24.440 And then of course the Brookings Institution, which maybe the 0:05:24.480 --> 0:05:28.400 most famous modern American think tank to this day, This 0:05:28.400 --> 0:05:30.799 is the one you probably hear about the most. Uh. 0:05:30.839 --> 0:05:35.400 It was founded by Robert Brookings in nineteen sixteen. And uh, 0:05:35.440 --> 0:05:37.000 they had a lot of it. I mean they still 0:05:37.000 --> 0:05:38.559 have a lot of influence, but they had a great 0:05:38.600 --> 0:05:42.719 deal of influence. UM kind of post depression with FDRs. 0:05:42.760 --> 0:05:45.760 New Deal helped construct the New Deal helped construct the 0:05:45.800 --> 0:05:49.200 Marshall Plan after World War Two. That was that was huge, 0:05:49.680 --> 0:05:52.920 very huge. So both were for sure. The New Deal 0:05:52.960 --> 0:05:55.880 definitely was, but the Marshall Plan was. There was a 0:05:55.920 --> 0:05:59.320 survey done, if I think, like four fifty historians and 0:05:59.440 --> 0:06:04.600 they the number one most important thing that any government 0:06:04.640 --> 0:06:08.560 has done since UM, World War two between World War 0:06:08.560 --> 0:06:11.680 two and the century was the Martiall Plan. Like it 0:06:12.480 --> 0:06:15.200 it not only like brought Europe back from World War Two, 0:06:15.920 --> 0:06:21.080 it set Europe on a path away from communism, where 0:06:21.120 --> 0:06:24.640 if you're not into communism, that was a great positive benefit, right. 0:06:25.040 --> 0:06:27.640 And the way it did that was in two years 0:06:27.800 --> 0:06:30.960 based on this economic plan. In two years, it got 0:06:31.040 --> 0:06:34.719 Europe or ravaged world War two ravaged Europe back to 0:06:34.880 --> 0:06:39.800 production levels higher than the production levels it was at 0:06:39.880 --> 0:06:42.720 before World War Two in two years. So it just 0:06:42.760 --> 0:06:47.359 went back to normal plus better. And Europe said, I 0:06:47.440 --> 0:06:50.719 kind of like this capitalism thing, and Western Europe went 0:06:50.800 --> 0:06:55.240 that way. I was kind of curious because Brookings, the 0:06:55.279 --> 0:07:00.000 Brookings Institution, gets a lot of like left leaning critics 0:07:00.000 --> 0:07:02.760 SYSM today, so I kind of wonder where that all 0:07:02.800 --> 0:07:05.880 came from. And uh, the article I read said that 0:07:06.040 --> 0:07:10.760 is a victory of the conservative side to have Brookings 0:07:10.840 --> 0:07:15.000 labeled liberal just from kind of pounding it in the press, 0:07:15.080 --> 0:07:19.360 even though it's history and its member board throughout the 0:07:19.480 --> 0:07:22.480 history has not been liberal at all, and it has 0:07:22.520 --> 0:07:25.920 been filled from the top down over the years with 0:07:26.200 --> 0:07:29.560 rank and file Republicans and conservatives from like the Reagan 0:07:29.640 --> 0:07:34.040 era on through Bush one and two. Okay, so they've 0:07:34.080 --> 0:07:37.480 they've gotten it across is liberals, so that liberals will 0:07:37.920 --> 0:07:41.080 swallow the stuff that Brookings is is putting out there. No, 0:07:42.200 --> 0:07:44.880 I know what they undermine their own think tank. Well, 0:07:45.000 --> 0:07:47.280 I don't think it's not their own think tank. It's 0:07:47.320 --> 0:07:49.960 not a conservative think tank. Well it's centrist, like almost 0:07:50.080 --> 0:07:52.160 right down the middle for right. But I think they 0:07:52.200 --> 0:07:56.760 want to advance their own uh with their conservative think tanks. 0:07:56.800 --> 0:07:59.640 They want to advance them, so they label Brookings is superliberal, 0:08:00.040 --> 0:08:05.440 just so anything centrist is liberal. I think that's what 0:08:05.480 --> 0:08:08.320 it is. I can't remember who scored it, but somebody 0:08:08.720 --> 0:08:12.360 has a liberal score between zero and a hundred for 0:08:12.440 --> 0:08:15.840 think tanks, and Brooking scored like a fifty three, right 0:08:15.880 --> 0:08:18.920 down the middle. Like apparently, as far as think tanks go, 0:08:19.040 --> 0:08:22.440 it's about as centrist as you possibly can get. Yeah, 0:08:22.480 --> 0:08:25.360 and they've been around for a long time. Yeah, makes 0:08:25.360 --> 0:08:29.080 a lot of sense. Yep. So, um, it's not just Brookings. 0:08:29.080 --> 0:08:31.760 Brookings is definitely one of the most famous around the 0:08:31.760 --> 0:08:33.959 world and has done quite a bit of stuff, but 0:08:34.000 --> 0:08:37.520 there's plenty of others. There's Um, the Rand Corporation is 0:08:37.520 --> 0:08:40.680 a very famous think tank which did you know RAND 0:08:41.400 --> 0:08:43.720 is actually am I don't know what you call it, 0:08:43.760 --> 0:08:45.920 but it's supposed it started out as R and D 0:08:46.200 --> 0:08:50.400 like Research and Development RAND Corporation, And from what I understand, 0:08:50.679 --> 0:08:56.959 they've come up with the ideas for computers, the Internet, uh, spy, satellites, 0:08:57.040 --> 0:09:00.400 the space program, all that stuff that America could in 0:09:00.400 --> 0:09:04.840 the mid twentieth century technologically. Yes, the Rain Corporation, like 0:09:05.040 --> 0:09:07.640 thinkers were the ones who came up with this stuff. Yeah, 0:09:07.679 --> 0:09:09.440 I think I knew some of that, and I don't 0:09:09.760 --> 0:09:11.800 I don't think it fully hit home that they were 0:09:11.840 --> 0:09:14.240 a think tank. Yeah, with the name like the Rain 0:09:14.320 --> 0:09:17.800 Corporation sounds like just a corporation, but but they're they're 0:09:17.840 --> 0:09:21.480 like a think tank that's really specifically there was specifically 0:09:21.559 --> 0:09:28.600 zoned into America's technology progression. I guess, yeah. I mean 0:09:28.600 --> 0:09:31.400 a lot of think tanks can be specialized like that, 0:09:31.440 --> 0:09:34.559 Like some are very very much just concentrate on economics, 0:09:35.040 --> 0:09:39.920 some concentrate on social issues in that case technology, and 0:09:39.960 --> 0:09:43.000 then I think some like Brookings are sort of a 0:09:43.000 --> 0:09:46.199 little more broad. Yeah, they'll they'll take any case, right, 0:09:47.040 --> 0:09:50.760 they'll take all comers. Yeah. So after World War Two, um, 0:09:50.840 --> 0:09:53.160 like there were think tanks before, like you said, Brookings, 0:09:53.440 --> 0:09:57.480 Carnegie Um, the Royal United Services Institute in the UK, 0:09:57.960 --> 0:10:00.320 there were like there were think tanks prior to World 0:10:00.320 --> 0:10:04.360 War Two, but after World War Two they really proliferated. 0:10:04.480 --> 0:10:07.200 And the reason they started was government was just kind 0:10:07.240 --> 0:10:11.280 of government it was in the in the early twentieth century. 0:10:11.280 --> 0:10:14.400 It was just just this. It was. It wasn't anything 0:10:14.440 --> 0:10:17.520 like you see it now. It wasn't this monolithic behemoth 0:10:18.120 --> 0:10:21.320 that has its tendrils in every aspect of people's lives 0:10:21.400 --> 0:10:24.680 or anything. It was a little too far the other 0:10:24.760 --> 0:10:27.400 way where it didn't quite know what it was doing. 0:10:27.480 --> 0:10:31.600 So some of those early philanthropists like Carnegie Um and Brookings, 0:10:32.520 --> 0:10:35.240 they they endowed these think tanks to kind of help 0:10:35.320 --> 0:10:39.440 government out to basically be like the research arm for government, 0:10:39.480 --> 0:10:43.280 to help direct the best way for America to go. 0:10:44.000 --> 0:10:46.160 And that's how it started out. And then after World 0:10:46.200 --> 0:10:49.120 War Two, when America had like all this cash and 0:10:49.160 --> 0:10:53.520 all this forward momentum, think tanks really popped up and 0:10:53.520 --> 0:10:56.520 and there were all these kind of competing and then 0:10:56.559 --> 0:11:01.080 sometimes harmonious um voices from these think tanks to say 0:11:01.160 --> 0:11:03.520 go this way, go this way, let's say this way, 0:11:03.559 --> 0:11:06.080 but they all had something in common, and that was 0:11:06.160 --> 0:11:09.600 that they were staffed by very smart people who did 0:11:09.880 --> 0:11:15.560 very deliberate, very good research, who produced policy positions that 0:11:15.880 --> 0:11:19.720 lawmakers could then take themselves and go out to the 0:11:19.760 --> 0:11:21.920 people and say, see, this is what I'm talking about, 0:11:21.960 --> 0:11:24.360 here's the data, here's a sound bite for you to 0:11:24.400 --> 0:11:27.200 make you understand it. That's what things tanks did, and 0:11:27.240 --> 0:11:30.439 in a way they were They very much were along 0:11:30.480 --> 0:11:34.040 the same track as lobby lobbyists, which we did an 0:11:34.080 --> 0:11:36.760 episode on that that was pretty good too. But think 0:11:36.800 --> 0:11:41.000 tanks stopped short of lobbying allegedly, Yeah, because they kind 0:11:41.000 --> 0:11:44.800 of had to um. Starting in nineteen they were granted 0:11:44.840 --> 0:11:48.240 tax exempt status, which is a very big deal because 0:11:48.240 --> 0:11:50.480 there's a lot of money involved in many of these. 0:11:50.559 --> 0:11:52.760 I've been trying to get that for myself for years, 0:11:53.360 --> 0:11:55.440 and you're right, it is a very big deal. The 0:11:55.520 --> 0:11:58.600 Church of Josh, just get it going. That's so I'm 0:11:58.600 --> 0:12:02.320 wearing this robe right now. Uh. In the nineteen fifties, though, 0:12:02.360 --> 0:12:06.000 is when Congress really kind of because they were tax exempt, 0:12:06.000 --> 0:12:08.920 had to get involved and say, hey, listen, you gotta 0:12:08.960 --> 0:12:12.160 walk a line here. You politically, you can't um if 0:12:12.160 --> 0:12:14.720 you want to keep this tax exemption. Now, oh yeah, 0:12:14.880 --> 0:12:18.680 we for sure do. Um. They said, you can't be partisan, 0:12:19.120 --> 0:12:23.080 it's got to be good information. You can't um slant 0:12:23.120 --> 0:12:27.920 things a certain way or support officially support or endorsed candidates. Um, 0:12:27.960 --> 0:12:32.960 you are here to educate with your objective work. And uh. 0:12:33.040 --> 0:12:34.840 That went along for a while, and then we started 0:12:34.840 --> 0:12:39.760 getting think tanks that set out to do just that um, 0:12:39.880 --> 0:12:43.319 which they are called advocacy. Advocacy think tanks now, which 0:12:43.679 --> 0:12:47.120 I'm not sure how they managed to skirt unless they 0:12:47.200 --> 0:12:50.400 change the rules, skirt those rules and say, hey, we're 0:12:50.400 --> 0:12:53.000 gonna be a conservative think tank or or liberal think 0:12:53.040 --> 0:12:57.760 tank and still be tax exempt. The do you know? 0:12:58.040 --> 0:13:00.440 The only thing that I can tell is that they're 0:13:00.520 --> 0:13:06.400 still technically producing a public good if or if they 0:13:06.440 --> 0:13:09.320 believe that they're producing a public good, even if they 0:13:09.400 --> 0:13:13.080 have conservative alignment or a liberal alignment. They're trying to 0:13:13.200 --> 0:13:15.840 move society along in a way that they think is 0:13:15.920 --> 0:13:19.839 good or for the betterment of society. Stuff. Dude, That's 0:13:19.840 --> 0:13:21.560 what I've been telling I mean, could we be a 0:13:21.600 --> 0:13:26.679 think tank? Absolutely not. I mean think about it, like, 0:13:27.920 --> 0:13:30.439 I mean, I guess we could. I think that there's 0:13:30.480 --> 0:13:32.320 a I don't Okay, let me take that back. No, 0:13:32.400 --> 0:13:34.840 we absolutely couldn't because we can't be brought to you 0:13:34.920 --> 0:13:39.400 by we don't have we don't have time. I don't know, 0:13:39.520 --> 0:13:41.840 that's a good question, but we don't have. Yeah, you 0:13:41.840 --> 0:13:45.360 couldn't advertise and have like you couldn't get advertiser money 0:13:45.520 --> 0:13:48.000 and be tax exempt. That's just like a doubt. If 0:13:48.080 --> 0:13:52.439 the Brookings institutions papers have like Burger King coupons on them, 0:13:52.559 --> 0:13:55.440 you never know. So we'll get to why we can't 0:13:55.480 --> 0:13:59.240 be later on. But one of the things about about 0:13:59.320 --> 0:14:03.080 think tanks is they're they're the reason they have a 0:14:03.160 --> 0:14:05.800 tax exempt status is what they're doing is producing work 0:14:05.840 --> 0:14:09.400 that furthers the public good. That's why they're supposed to 0:14:09.440 --> 0:14:12.200 have tax exempt status. What you're pointing out is a 0:14:12.280 --> 0:14:15.160 really good thing to point out, Like, wait a minute, 0:14:15.160 --> 0:14:17.640 there's a lot of stuff here that that they could 0:14:17.720 --> 0:14:20.200 lose their tax exempt status for. And if we fast 0:14:20.200 --> 0:14:22.360 forward to three or five years from now, I think 0:14:22.360 --> 0:14:26.520 we're going to start seeing them lose tax exempt status. Um, 0:14:26.760 --> 0:14:29.440 they just haven't yet, I think is what it is. Yeah, 0:14:29.440 --> 0:14:32.280 because some of them flat out like it's so obvious 0:14:32.280 --> 0:14:35.840 when they come around like uh, when the Democrats were 0:14:35.840 --> 0:14:40.000 beaten in two thousand, they got together and they started, uh, 0:14:40.200 --> 0:14:43.840 left leaning thinkers got together and started the Center for 0:14:43.880 --> 0:14:49.000 American Progress, which is an economic organization. It says it's nonpartisan, 0:14:49.720 --> 0:14:53.000 but it literally says, as a quote, their goal is 0:14:53.040 --> 0:14:57.240 to develop new policy ideas, critique the policy that stems 0:14:57.240 --> 0:15:02.000 from conservative values, lanches the media to cover the issues 0:15:02.040 --> 0:15:05.480 that truly matter and shape the national debate. So it's 0:15:05.560 --> 0:15:07.960 they're they're kind of flat out saying like we're out 0:15:07.960 --> 0:15:13.640 too prove, not just have an opinion about Maybe that's 0:15:13.640 --> 0:15:19.040 a distinction, out to prove that conservative economic values are 0:15:19.080 --> 0:15:21.880 bad for the country. Basically, Yeah, is that the difference. 0:15:21.920 --> 0:15:25.640 Maybe it's like, here's our data. I honestly don't know, dude. 0:15:25.680 --> 0:15:28.960 It's not a bunch of op eds thrown together. It's 0:15:29.040 --> 0:15:31.960 so so No, it's not supposed to just be op eds. 0:15:31.960 --> 0:15:35.160 It's supposed to be backed by data. Yeah. But but 0:15:35.280 --> 0:15:37.480 I mean, like Center for American Progress, or like the 0:15:37.560 --> 0:15:42.960 Heritage Foundation, or like ALEC, h the American Legislative Exchange Council, 0:15:43.440 --> 0:15:45.800 like these are like and we're gonna do a whole 0:15:45.840 --> 0:15:49.520 episode just on ALEC one day. Okay, seriously, but they're 0:15:49.560 --> 0:15:53.360 like little, they're like Kareem Abdul Jabbar, like karate training 0:15:53.440 --> 0:15:58.960 islands for liberals or for conservatives or for um rich 0:15:59.120 --> 0:16:02.160 billionaire follow worse, like it doesn't matter, Like that's what 0:16:02.280 --> 0:16:04.720 they are there there. They come up with new ideas 0:16:05.040 --> 0:16:09.080 to push their agenda, and then they train activists to 0:16:09.120 --> 0:16:11.840 go out and get that message out, to change people's minds, 0:16:11.880 --> 0:16:14.400 to get themselves on CNN or Fox News or whatever, 0:16:14.960 --> 0:16:19.000 and to shape the public discussion on on something. It 0:16:19.040 --> 0:16:21.440 has a lot of the contours of what think tanks 0:16:21.520 --> 0:16:24.160 used to have, but there's this whole other layer of 0:16:24.200 --> 0:16:27.440 like like seeing you and grizzle there that that that 0:16:27.560 --> 0:16:29.760 I think tanks aren't supposed to have. Should we take 0:16:29.800 --> 0:16:31.880 a break? All right, we'll take a break in we'll 0:16:32.080 --> 0:16:34.120 talk a little bit more about the Heritage Foundation right 0:16:34.120 --> 0:17:02.800 after this. All right, nineteen eighties, the Heritage Foundation, which 0:17:02.800 --> 0:17:09.000 you briefly mentured, mentored, that's the new mentioned before before 0:17:09.000 --> 0:17:13.719 he broke. They came about broke, they said, all right, 0:17:13.960 --> 0:17:17.960 it's nineteen eighties. We got Ronald Reagan in there. He 0:17:18.160 --> 0:17:21.240 is watching movies or asleep most of the time, so 0:17:21.280 --> 0:17:24.159 we have a good opportunity. That's how they want you 0:17:24.240 --> 0:17:26.480 to think he has a good Did you see the 0:17:26.560 --> 0:17:30.879 numbers about his uh movie watching? No? Oh man, it's great. 0:17:31.560 --> 0:17:33.800 Like a movie fan, it's great. How many movies did 0:17:33.840 --> 0:17:36.199 he watch? Your day? He watched a lot of movies. 0:17:36.320 --> 0:17:38.760 And this is like back when they just had like reels, 0:17:38.840 --> 0:17:41.240 right films trip. I guess they probably just you know, 0:17:41.400 --> 0:17:43.560 cue the projector when he he and Nancy wanted to 0:17:43.560 --> 0:17:47.800 watch it a good old fashioned western starring me. Can 0:17:47.880 --> 0:17:51.440 you do the rest of the episode as ready? No? Uh? 0:17:51.600 --> 0:17:53.640 So they came along and they said, all right, Reagan's 0:17:53.640 --> 0:17:58.280 in in office. Here are our recommendations. What up I 0:17:58.280 --> 0:18:01.520 would call a blueprint for grabbing the government by its 0:18:01.560 --> 0:18:05.440 frayed New Deal lapels and shaking out forty eight years 0:18:05.480 --> 0:18:09.200 of liberal policy. And it came by way of two thousand, 0:18:09.320 --> 0:18:13.240 more than two thousand recommendations, and they tried to institute 0:18:13.240 --> 0:18:15.520 about two thirds of them. Yeah. Reagan was like, great, 0:18:16.400 --> 0:18:22.359 here's my thanks for the outline for what I should do. Right. Yeah, 0:18:22.440 --> 0:18:24.960 so two thirds, like he said during his two terms, 0:18:25.000 --> 0:18:27.200 is what he tried to implement. And then, of course 0:18:27.200 --> 0:18:31.080 when Bill Clinton gets in there, the Progressive Policy Institute, Um, 0:18:31.240 --> 0:18:33.280 I don't know if it was two thousand plus, but 0:18:33.920 --> 0:18:37.240 they offered similar recommendations. And that's how it goes the 0:18:37.359 --> 0:18:41.240 think tanks right now. Yeah, because if you're a lawmaker, 0:18:41.440 --> 0:18:43.879 and again we said this in the Lobbying episode two, 0:18:44.240 --> 0:18:49.600 you're not necessarily like some smart whip crack sharp person. No, 0:18:49.720 --> 0:18:51.920 I think we've seen that played out. You can just 0:18:52.000 --> 0:18:55.400 like give people to vote for you. Yeah, on both 0:18:55.400 --> 0:18:57.439 sides of the aisle. It's just a crack at like 0:18:57.520 --> 0:18:59.119 you know Trump or anything. Oh no, no, no no, I 0:18:59.160 --> 0:19:02.760 mean on all up and down the House and Senate. Right. 0:19:02.880 --> 0:19:05.040 You don't like to think they're all geniuses, but they're not. 0:19:05.119 --> 0:19:07.439 They're not. And you don't have to be smart to 0:19:07.520 --> 0:19:09.720 hold office. Um, you just have to get people to 0:19:09.800 --> 0:19:12.840 vote for you. Again, which is why I think tanks 0:19:12.840 --> 0:19:15.800 have flourished for so long, why lobbyists have flourished for 0:19:15.840 --> 0:19:18.600 so long, because they're the ones who do the research 0:19:18.920 --> 0:19:21.800 and write the policy and say, here you go. You 0:19:21.840 --> 0:19:24.480 want to go look smart, here you go, buddy. We 0:19:24.560 --> 0:19:27.520 even like highlighted some sound bites for you to go, 0:19:27.720 --> 0:19:30.040 say two people and get the get into the twenty 0:19:30.040 --> 0:19:32.600 four hour news cycle. And that's one of the big 0:19:32.720 --> 0:19:35.760 roles that think tanks played today is by and and 0:19:35.800 --> 0:19:38.000 have you know, especially since World War Two, is by 0:19:38.040 --> 0:19:40.760 going to policy makers and being like, here's your agenda, 0:19:41.200 --> 0:19:42.920 take your leave as much as you want. But all 0:19:42.960 --> 0:19:46.119 of this is backed by data, like it dovetails with 0:19:46.200 --> 0:19:48.760 what you want to do with the country, and it 0:19:48.920 --> 0:19:53.640 is just gangbusters stuff. It's high quality, well researched stuff. Yeah, 0:19:53.640 --> 0:19:56.120 it's really interesting because I think there are still think 0:19:56.160 --> 0:20:02.879 tanks that only craft U only do research and present 0:20:03.000 --> 0:20:05.240 it and say do what you will with it. But 0:20:05.280 --> 0:20:08.600 those seem to be more and more gone by the wayside. 0:20:08.720 --> 0:20:11.639 Two ten was a real watershed year. It feels like 0:20:11.720 --> 0:20:14.560 for think tanks. Yeah, like you mentioned ALEC, which we're 0:20:14.560 --> 0:20:17.480 going to cover in full, but I mean they are 0:20:17.520 --> 0:20:22.600 they are a bill writing organization. They call them model bills. 0:20:23.400 --> 0:20:25.480 But I mean when when you hear a senator or 0:20:25.520 --> 0:20:28.280 something said, you know, we crafted this legislation, well, that 0:20:28.320 --> 0:20:31.919 probably means is an organization Like ALEC handed them the 0:20:32.000 --> 0:20:35.679 legislation and said here, you know, here it is if 0:20:35.680 --> 0:20:38.400 you want to use it, and you probably should want 0:20:38.400 --> 0:20:41.440 to use it. That's so. That is so ALEC I think, 0:20:41.560 --> 0:20:44.120 does in many ways qualify as a think tank. They're 0:20:44.160 --> 0:20:50.760 not add percent standard think tank, but actually writing the law. Yeah, 0:20:51.000 --> 0:20:54.000 and for the lawmaker to go into do and go 0:20:54.040 --> 0:20:57.160 into Congress and introduce it as their own bill. That's 0:20:57.160 --> 0:21:00.160 a little beyond what think tanks to think tanks were 0:21:00.200 --> 0:21:04.440 like write a paper that says, here's this problem in America, 0:21:04.680 --> 0:21:07.240 here's some ideas to solve it. Here's this research to 0:21:07.280 --> 0:21:10.479 back up those ideas, go write a law based on it. 0:21:10.680 --> 0:21:13.280 What things like ALEC does is take it a step further. 0:21:13.600 --> 0:21:16.560 But ALEX still qualifies as a think tank. And ALEC 0:21:16.720 --> 0:21:20.800 is part of something called the State Policy Network, which 0:21:20.840 --> 0:21:24.240 apparently is there's one in every state and Puerto Rico. 0:21:24.560 --> 0:21:26.919 And they're like a confederation of think tanks that basically 0:21:26.920 --> 0:21:30.879 sit around and figure out ways to sue local, state 0:21:31.040 --> 0:21:35.160 and federal law lawmakers over laws, to try to get 0:21:35.240 --> 0:21:38.680 laws overturned, like they used the courts rather than the legislation. 0:21:39.200 --> 0:21:43.119 But um, it's still the stated goal is to affect 0:21:43.600 --> 0:21:47.120 public policy and turn it in one direction or another. Yeah, 0:21:47.119 --> 0:21:52.520 what was what was the website that you sent? Source Watch? Yes? 0:21:52.640 --> 0:21:57.480 Source Watch called them, uh, called ALEC a corporate bill mill. Right, 0:21:57.560 --> 0:22:01.000 So they're just churning out hundreds of bill a year. 0:22:01.880 --> 0:22:04.040 Not all of them get used, but many of them do. 0:22:05.280 --> 0:22:06.679 And it's just I don't know. I don't think a 0:22:06.680 --> 0:22:10.600 lot of Americans realize that a lot of actual legislative 0:22:10.640 --> 0:22:16.439 policy is being written by McDonald's. Yeah, exactly, it's crazy. 0:22:16.520 --> 0:22:18.800 I can't wait to do the alquum. We're both going 0:22:18.840 --> 0:22:21.440 to be well, our cars are gonna blow up right after, 0:22:21.760 --> 0:22:24.359 but by god, we're gonna get that episode. Maybe we 0:22:24.400 --> 0:22:27.880 should make that or like last episode in the year whatever, 0:22:28.080 --> 0:22:32.639 what's twenty years from now, two thousands now? That was 0:22:32.720 --> 0:22:38.760 eighteen years ago. I used to love that bit though. Um. Alright, 0:22:38.840 --> 0:22:44.800 so we got to talk about money here because this uh, 0:22:44.840 --> 0:22:49.840 they are not, um, the independent most times these days 0:22:49.840 --> 0:22:54.040 they're not the independent organizations that you think they are. Uh. 0:22:54.080 --> 0:22:58.400 They used to be funded by these endowments and um. 0:22:58.560 --> 0:23:02.440 More and more, it's it's corporation ends, large businesses. Sometimes 0:23:02.520 --> 0:23:06.919 private individuals of course, will give. And sometimes it's a 0:23:07.040 --> 0:23:10.960 great work around for campaign finance laws. Instead of directing 0:23:11.560 --> 0:23:13.439 you know, you know, tens of millions of dollars like 0:23:13.480 --> 0:23:16.000 you can't do to a campaign, you can throw it 0:23:16.040 --> 0:23:19.160 in a think tank that will probably get a better result. Anyway, 0:23:19.200 --> 0:23:22.919 that's new the time was it used to be like 0:23:23.200 --> 0:23:28.240 in my day, right, a rich philanthropist would say, I 0:23:28.320 --> 0:23:32.640 hate poverty and the effects that has on Americans. Go 0:23:32.800 --> 0:23:35.720 figure this out. I'm gonna fund to think tank. And 0:23:35.760 --> 0:23:39.040 that's how you're dedicated to like just go make that happen. 0:23:39.440 --> 0:23:42.240 And that's what think tanks were originally born from. And 0:23:42.280 --> 0:23:45.240 that's largely the the only kind of oversight they worked 0:23:45.280 --> 0:23:48.560 under is they were trying to end poverty, or they 0:23:48.560 --> 0:23:54.359 were trying to work against communism, like these huge, haughty goals. 0:23:55.560 --> 0:23:59.639