1 00:00:01,120 --> 00:00:04,560 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you Should Know from how Stuff Works 2 00:00:04,600 --> 00:00:14,120 Speaker 1: dot com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark, 3 00:00:14,160 --> 00:00:16,759 Speaker 1: and there's Charles W. Chuck Bryant and Jerry's over there 4 00:00:17,200 --> 00:00:20,360 Speaker 1: actually sitting in today, and uh, this is stuff you 5 00:00:20,360 --> 00:00:23,960 Speaker 1: should know about. Think tanks, the thinking this kind of tanks. 6 00:00:23,960 --> 00:00:26,600 Speaker 1: There are fish tanks. They don't think at all, well, 7 00:00:26,640 --> 00:00:30,360 Speaker 1: they barely think. They think, this water feels a little 8 00:00:30,400 --> 00:00:33,160 Speaker 1: warm for me, and then they think what's water, what's 9 00:00:33,200 --> 00:00:36,239 Speaker 1: being wet? And then that's about it. And then they're like, 10 00:00:36,240 --> 00:00:38,720 Speaker 1: how about some of those tasty flakes? Yeah, give me some, 11 00:00:39,360 --> 00:00:43,200 Speaker 1: and that's it. Think tanks. There's a lot more thinking 12 00:00:43,240 --> 00:00:45,680 Speaker 1: going on in these kind of tanks. Like stink tanks, 13 00:00:46,040 --> 00:00:51,240 Speaker 1: it depends on your opinion, and uh that's everybody's opinion. 14 00:00:51,320 --> 00:00:53,440 Speaker 1: So yes, I guess they are more like stink tanks 15 00:00:53,479 --> 00:00:56,480 Speaker 1: these days. This is one of those weird ones where 16 00:00:56,520 --> 00:01:01,320 Speaker 1: I for forty seven years just sort of had this, 17 00:01:02,960 --> 00:01:06,000 Speaker 1: never dug in on what a think tank was. I 18 00:01:06,080 --> 00:01:07,560 Speaker 1: hear it, and now it kind of assumed I knew 19 00:01:07,560 --> 00:01:10,240 Speaker 1: what it was. That was kind of right. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 20 00:01:10,280 --> 00:01:12,680 Speaker 1: it's a good it's a good term for something. Yeah, 21 00:01:12,680 --> 00:01:14,320 Speaker 1: I was like, within this is this like a bunch 22 00:01:14,319 --> 00:01:18,280 Speaker 1: of smart people sitting around think thinking about smart stuff? Exactly. 23 00:01:18,400 --> 00:01:21,480 Speaker 1: That's kind of right, That's exactly what it is. It's like, 24 00:01:21,760 --> 00:01:24,920 Speaker 1: it's like a place where people sit around and think 25 00:01:24,959 --> 00:01:30,800 Speaker 1: about things that eventually hopefully affects public policy in a 26 00:01:30,880 --> 00:01:33,920 Speaker 1: positive way. Is what you're ultimately hoping for. Yeah, and 27 00:01:33,959 --> 00:01:36,640 Speaker 1: b I think we don't mean if you went by 28 00:01:36,640 --> 00:01:38,760 Speaker 1: a think tank, they would all just be sitting around. 29 00:01:40,040 --> 00:01:42,680 Speaker 1: M hmmm. I think it depends on the day of 30 00:01:42,720 --> 00:01:44,720 Speaker 1: the week or if it's right after lunch, like there's 31 00:01:44,760 --> 00:01:48,600 Speaker 1: a ton of research and study. Oh, I see stuff 32 00:01:48,640 --> 00:01:51,320 Speaker 1: like that. They're not just pulling stuff out of thin air. No. No, 33 00:01:51,560 --> 00:01:54,040 Speaker 1: that's the point of think tanks is they are groups 34 00:01:54,080 --> 00:01:57,680 Speaker 1: of people, UM nonprofit organizations in the US we should 35 00:01:57,680 --> 00:01:59,880 Speaker 1: say yeah, which will get to the finer points of 36 00:02:01,040 --> 00:02:05,160 Speaker 1: UM who say, you know what, we see this problem 37 00:02:05,200 --> 00:02:09,200 Speaker 1: in America and or the world or wherever. Great Britain 38 00:02:09,200 --> 00:02:12,239 Speaker 1: has plenty China has a bunch, and they say, how 39 00:02:12,280 --> 00:02:14,680 Speaker 1: can we solve this problem. Let's get to it. We're 40 00:02:14,680 --> 00:02:17,400 Speaker 1: gonna we're gonna take this problem on and figure it 41 00:02:17,440 --> 00:02:23,600 Speaker 1: out through pragmatic science and evidence based research. We're going 42 00:02:23,600 --> 00:02:26,160 Speaker 1: to come up with a solution to this problem. And 43 00:02:26,200 --> 00:02:29,160 Speaker 1: then the next step is to get it out there 44 00:02:29,400 --> 00:02:32,280 Speaker 1: to the public, to policy makers, to get people talking 45 00:02:32,280 --> 00:02:34,799 Speaker 1: about it. And then once enough people talk about it 46 00:02:35,160 --> 00:02:38,120 Speaker 1: and there's a public debate over it, ideally, if it's 47 00:02:38,120 --> 00:02:41,560 Speaker 1: a good idea, it will be adopted as public policy 48 00:02:41,880 --> 00:02:44,520 Speaker 1: and that problem will be solved in a in a 49 00:02:44,560 --> 00:02:49,440 Speaker 1: good way. Yeah, And that's the ideal function of a 50 00:02:49,440 --> 00:02:53,520 Speaker 1: an ideal think tank, which is to say it is nonpartisan, 51 00:02:54,040 --> 00:02:58,919 Speaker 1: it is fact based, and it doesn't have an agenda necessarily. 52 00:02:59,600 --> 00:03:02,799 Speaker 1: But things have changed over the years, as we will 53 00:03:02,800 --> 00:03:07,440 Speaker 1: see fairly recently, Chuck seems like and and think tanks 54 00:03:07,520 --> 00:03:11,160 Speaker 1: can be very much slanted. But well, we'll get into 55 00:03:11,200 --> 00:03:13,080 Speaker 1: all that. That's just sort of a long winded setup. 56 00:03:13,880 --> 00:03:15,720 Speaker 1: That was a good set up, though, Man, should we 57 00:03:15,760 --> 00:03:21,400 Speaker 1: go back and check on oural buddy Plato. Yeah, so 58 00:03:21,520 --> 00:03:26,000 Speaker 1: Plato his academy. The Academy was some people say it 59 00:03:26,040 --> 00:03:29,560 Speaker 1: was sort of the world's first think tank, which makes sense. Yeah, 60 00:03:29,840 --> 00:03:32,520 Speaker 1: he would get dudes and they would sit around in 61 00:03:32,520 --> 00:03:36,240 Speaker 1: the garden and I would imagine drink wine and talk 62 00:03:36,320 --> 00:03:41,640 Speaker 1: smarts and philosophy and kind of you know, like it 63 00:03:41,720 --> 00:03:44,840 Speaker 1: was high minded stuff for the day to sit around 64 00:03:44,840 --> 00:03:47,520 Speaker 1: and think about sort of what was going on around 65 00:03:47,520 --> 00:03:51,160 Speaker 1: them and how they could impact change. Yeah, or thinking 66 00:03:51,200 --> 00:03:56,120 Speaker 1: about the nature of reality or existence. Um, they once 67 00:03:56,160 --> 00:04:00,480 Speaker 1: decided that knowledge was uncertain and life is essentially craps 68 00:04:00,520 --> 00:04:04,720 Speaker 1: game based on probability rather than absolute truth. If you 69 00:04:04,760 --> 00:04:07,080 Speaker 1: step back and think about it, that is the basis 70 00:04:07,520 --> 00:04:12,040 Speaker 1: of quantum mechanics. Could you imagine if they had access 71 00:04:12,080 --> 00:04:15,360 Speaker 1: to LSD back then, I know, I don't think it 72 00:04:15,360 --> 00:04:18,200 Speaker 1: would have been too terribly different. Well, yeah, they were 73 00:04:18,200 --> 00:04:20,320 Speaker 1: sort of traveling down that road anyway, but that was 74 00:04:20,520 --> 00:04:22,960 Speaker 1: I mean, that's that's pretty impressive some of the stuff 75 00:04:23,000 --> 00:04:24,640 Speaker 1: they came up with. This is again, you know, we 76 00:04:24,720 --> 00:04:29,039 Speaker 1: did a skeptics episode. Skepticism episode, you know, um, I'm sorry, 77 00:04:29,040 --> 00:04:33,560 Speaker 1: not skepticism, a stoicism. And remember is this is where 78 00:04:33,600 --> 00:04:36,839 Speaker 1: this stuff was. All these different philosophies were all like 79 00:04:36,920 --> 00:04:39,920 Speaker 1: kind of grew from this academy. So you can make 80 00:04:39,920 --> 00:04:42,080 Speaker 1: a pretty good case that it was the world's first 81 00:04:42,200 --> 00:04:45,320 Speaker 1: think tank. Yeah, it's a little it's not the first 82 00:04:45,360 --> 00:04:47,800 Speaker 1: modern think tank, but it it qualifies in a lot 83 00:04:47,880 --> 00:04:50,520 Speaker 1: of ways. No, there was one in eight thirty one, 84 00:04:50,680 --> 00:04:54,360 Speaker 1: in Great Britain, the Duke of Wellington established what was 85 00:04:54,400 --> 00:04:59,400 Speaker 1: called the Royal United Services Institution, which studied like military science. Yeah. 86 00:04:59,440 --> 00:05:02,400 Speaker 1: And then here in the US in nineteen ten, the 87 00:05:02,440 --> 00:05:06,039 Speaker 1: Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, which studied the results of 88 00:05:06,080 --> 00:05:10,840 Speaker 1: military science. Right, and that's still around, uh, Carnegie man, 89 00:05:10,880 --> 00:05:15,320 Speaker 1: I mean they still have endowed many things. Yeah, they're 90 00:05:15,360 --> 00:05:20,320 Speaker 1: well in doubt that they are very well in doubt. Uh. 91 00:05:20,360 --> 00:05:24,440 Speaker 1: And then of course the Brookings Institution, which maybe the 92 00:05:24,480 --> 00:05:28,400 Speaker 1: most famous modern American think tank to this day, This 93 00:05:28,400 --> 00:05:30,799 Speaker 1: is the one you probably hear about the most. Uh. 94 00:05:30,839 --> 00:05:35,400 Speaker 1: It was founded by Robert Brookings in nineteen sixteen. And uh, 95 00:05:35,440 --> 00:05:37,000 Speaker 1: they had a lot of it. I mean they still 96 00:05:37,000 --> 00:05:38,559 Speaker 1: have a lot of influence, but they had a great 97 00:05:38,600 --> 00:05:42,719 Speaker 1: deal of influence. UM kind of post depression with FDRs. 98 00:05:42,760 --> 00:05:45,760 Speaker 1: New Deal helped construct the New Deal helped construct the 99 00:05:45,800 --> 00:05:49,200 Speaker 1: Marshall Plan after World War Two. That was that was huge, 100 00:05:49,680 --> 00:05:52,920 Speaker 1: very huge. So both were for sure. The New Deal 101 00:05:52,960 --> 00:05:55,880 Speaker 1: definitely was, but the Marshall Plan was. There was a 102 00:05:55,920 --> 00:05:59,320 Speaker 1: survey done, if I think, like four fifty historians and 103 00:05:59,440 --> 00:06:04,600 Speaker 1: they the number one most important thing that any government 104 00:06:04,640 --> 00:06:08,560 Speaker 1: has done since UM, World War two between World War 105 00:06:08,560 --> 00:06:11,680 Speaker 1: two and the century was the Martiall Plan. Like it 106 00:06:12,480 --> 00:06:15,200 Speaker 1: it not only like brought Europe back from World War Two, 107 00:06:15,920 --> 00:06:21,080 Speaker 1: it set Europe on a path away from communism, where 108 00:06:21,120 --> 00:06:24,640 Speaker 1: if you're not into communism, that was a great positive benefit, right. 109 00:06:25,040 --> 00:06:27,640 Speaker 1: And the way it did that was in two years 110 00:06:27,800 --> 00:06:30,960 Speaker 1: based on this economic plan. In two years, it got 111 00:06:31,040 --> 00:06:34,719 Speaker 1: Europe or ravaged world War two ravaged Europe back to 112 00:06:34,880 --> 00:06:39,800 Speaker 1: production levels higher than the production levels it was at 113 00:06:39,880 --> 00:06:42,720 Speaker 1: before World War Two in two years. So it just 114 00:06:42,760 --> 00:06:47,359 Speaker 1: went back to normal plus better. And Europe said, I 115 00:06:47,440 --> 00:06:50,719 Speaker 1: kind of like this capitalism thing, and Western Europe went 116 00:06:50,800 --> 00:06:55,240 Speaker 1: that way. I was kind of curious because Brookings, the 117 00:06:55,279 --> 00:07:00,000 Speaker 1: Brookings Institution, gets a lot of like left leaning critics 118 00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:02,760 Speaker 1: SYSM today, so I kind of wonder where that all 119 00:07:02,800 --> 00:07:05,880 Speaker 1: came from. And uh, the article I read said that 120 00:07:06,040 --> 00:07:10,760 Speaker 1: is a victory of the conservative side to have Brookings 121 00:07:10,840 --> 00:07:15,000 Speaker 1: labeled liberal just from kind of pounding it in the press, 122 00:07:15,080 --> 00:07:19,360 Speaker 1: even though it's history and its member board throughout the 123 00:07:19,480 --> 00:07:22,480 Speaker 1: history has not been liberal at all, and it has 124 00:07:22,520 --> 00:07:25,920 Speaker 1: been filled from the top down over the years with 125 00:07:26,200 --> 00:07:29,560 Speaker 1: rank and file Republicans and conservatives from like the Reagan 126 00:07:29,640 --> 00:07:34,040 Speaker 1: era on through Bush one and two. Okay, so they've 127 00:07:34,080 --> 00:07:37,480 Speaker 1: they've gotten it across is liberals, so that liberals will 128 00:07:37,920 --> 00:07:41,080 Speaker 1: swallow the stuff that Brookings is is putting out there. No, 129 00:07:42,200 --> 00:07:44,880 Speaker 1: I know what they undermine their own think tank. Well, 130 00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:47,280 Speaker 1: I don't think it's not their own think tank. It's 131 00:07:47,320 --> 00:07:49,960 Speaker 1: not a conservative think tank. Well it's centrist, like almost 132 00:07:50,080 --> 00:07:52,160 Speaker 1: right down the middle for right. But I think they 133 00:07:52,200 --> 00:07:56,760 Speaker 1: want to advance their own uh with their conservative think tanks. 134 00:07:56,800 --> 00:07:59,640 Speaker 1: They want to advance them, so they label Brookings is superliberal, 135 00:08:00,040 --> 00:08:05,440 Speaker 1: just so anything centrist is liberal. I think that's what 136 00:08:05,480 --> 00:08:08,320 Speaker 1: it is. I can't remember who scored it, but somebody 137 00:08:08,720 --> 00:08:12,360 Speaker 1: has a liberal score between zero and a hundred for 138 00:08:12,440 --> 00:08:15,840 Speaker 1: think tanks, and Brooking scored like a fifty three, right 139 00:08:15,880 --> 00:08:18,920 Speaker 1: down the middle. Like apparently, as far as think tanks go, 140 00:08:19,040 --> 00:08:22,440 Speaker 1: it's about as centrist as you possibly can get. Yeah, 141 00:08:22,480 --> 00:08:25,360 Speaker 1: and they've been around for a long time. Yeah, makes 142 00:08:25,360 --> 00:08:29,080 Speaker 1: a lot of sense. Yep. So, um, it's not just Brookings. 143 00:08:29,080 --> 00:08:31,760 Speaker 1: Brookings is definitely one of the most famous around the 144 00:08:31,760 --> 00:08:33,959 Speaker 1: world and has done quite a bit of stuff, but 145 00:08:34,000 --> 00:08:37,520 Speaker 1: there's plenty of others. There's Um, the Rand Corporation is 146 00:08:37,520 --> 00:08:40,680 Speaker 1: a very famous think tank which did you know RAND 147 00:08:41,400 --> 00:08:43,720 Speaker 1: is actually am I don't know what you call it, 148 00:08:43,760 --> 00:08:45,920 Speaker 1: but it's supposed it started out as R and D 149 00:08:46,200 --> 00:08:50,400 Speaker 1: like Research and Development RAND Corporation, And from what I understand, 150 00:08:50,679 --> 00:08:56,959 Speaker 1: they've come up with the ideas for computers, the Internet, uh, spy, satellites, 151 00:08:57,040 --> 00:09:00,400 Speaker 1: the space program, all that stuff that America could in 152 00:09:00,400 --> 00:09:04,840 Speaker 1: the mid twentieth century technologically. Yes, the Rain Corporation, like 153 00:09:05,040 --> 00:09:07,640 Speaker 1: thinkers were the ones who came up with this stuff. Yeah, 154 00:09:07,679 --> 00:09:09,440 Speaker 1: I think I knew some of that, and I don't 155 00:09:09,760 --> 00:09:11,800 Speaker 1: I don't think it fully hit home that they were 156 00:09:11,840 --> 00:09:14,240 Speaker 1: a think tank. Yeah, with the name like the Rain 157 00:09:14,320 --> 00:09:17,800 Speaker 1: Corporation sounds like just a corporation, but but they're they're 158 00:09:17,840 --> 00:09:21,480 Speaker 1: like a think tank that's really specifically there was specifically 159 00:09:21,559 --> 00:09:28,600 Speaker 1: zoned into America's technology progression. I guess, yeah. I mean 160 00:09:28,600 --> 00:09:31,400 Speaker 1: a lot of think tanks can be specialized like that, 161 00:09:31,440 --> 00:09:34,559 Speaker 1: Like some are very very much just concentrate on economics, 162 00:09:35,040 --> 00:09:39,920 Speaker 1: some concentrate on social issues in that case technology, and 163 00:09:39,960 --> 00:09:43,000 Speaker 1: then I think some like Brookings are sort of a 164 00:09:43,000 --> 00:09:46,199 Speaker 1: little more broad. Yeah, they'll they'll take any case, right, 165 00:09:47,040 --> 00:09:50,760 Speaker 1: they'll take all comers. Yeah. So after World War Two, um, 166 00:09:50,840 --> 00:09:53,160 Speaker 1: like there were think tanks before, like you said, Brookings, 167 00:09:53,440 --> 00:09:57,480 Speaker 1: Carnegie Um, the Royal United Services Institute in the UK, 168 00:09:57,960 --> 00:10:00,320 Speaker 1: there were like there were think tanks prior to World 169 00:10:00,320 --> 00:10:04,360 Speaker 1: War Two, but after World War Two they really proliferated. 170 00:10:04,480 --> 00:10:07,200 Speaker 1: And the reason they started was government was just kind 171 00:10:07,240 --> 00:10:11,280 Speaker 1: of government it was in the in the early twentieth century. 172 00:10:11,280 --> 00:10:14,400 Speaker 1: It was just just this. It was. It wasn't anything 173 00:10:14,440 --> 00:10:17,520 Speaker 1: like you see it now. It wasn't this monolithic behemoth 174 00:10:18,120 --> 00:10:21,320 Speaker 1: that has its tendrils in every aspect of people's lives 175 00:10:21,400 --> 00:10:24,680 Speaker 1: or anything. It was a little too far the other 176 00:10:24,760 --> 00:10:27,400 Speaker 1: way where it didn't quite know what it was doing. 177 00:10:27,480 --> 00:10:31,600 Speaker 1: So some of those early philanthropists like Carnegie Um and Brookings, 178 00:10:32,520 --> 00:10:35,240 Speaker 1: they they endowed these think tanks to kind of help 179 00:10:35,320 --> 00:10:39,440 Speaker 1: government out to basically be like the research arm for government, 180 00:10:39,480 --> 00:10:43,280 Speaker 1: to help direct the best way for America to go. 181 00:10:44,000 --> 00:10:46,160 Speaker 1: And that's how it started out. And then after World 182 00:10:46,200 --> 00:10:49,120 Speaker 1: War Two, when America had like all this cash and 183 00:10:49,160 --> 00:10:53,520 Speaker 1: all this forward momentum, think tanks really popped up and 184 00:10:53,520 --> 00:10:56,520 Speaker 1: and there were all these kind of competing and then 185 00:10:56,559 --> 00:11:01,080 Speaker 1: sometimes harmonious um voices from these think tanks to say 186 00:11:01,160 --> 00:11:03,520 Speaker 1: go this way, go this way, let's say this way, 187 00:11:03,559 --> 00:11:06,080 Speaker 1: but they all had something in common, and that was 188 00:11:06,160 --> 00:11:09,600 Speaker 1: that they were staffed by very smart people who did 189 00:11:09,880 --> 00:11:15,560 Speaker 1: very deliberate, very good research, who produced policy positions that 190 00:11:15,880 --> 00:11:19,720 Speaker 1: lawmakers could then take themselves and go out to the 191 00:11:19,760 --> 00:11:21,920 Speaker 1: people and say, see, this is what I'm talking about, 192 00:11:21,960 --> 00:11:24,360 Speaker 1: here's the data, here's a sound bite for you to 193 00:11:24,400 --> 00:11:27,200 Speaker 1: make you understand it. That's what things tanks did, and 194 00:11:27,240 --> 00:11:30,439 Speaker 1: in a way they were They very much were along 195 00:11:30,480 --> 00:11:34,040 Speaker 1: the same track as lobby lobbyists, which we did an 196 00:11:34,080 --> 00:11:36,760 Speaker 1: episode on that that was pretty good too. But think 197 00:11:36,800 --> 00:11:41,000 Speaker 1: tanks stopped short of lobbying allegedly, Yeah, because they kind 198 00:11:41,000 --> 00:11:44,800 Speaker 1: of had to um. Starting in nineteen they were granted 199 00:11:44,840 --> 00:11:48,240 Speaker 1: tax exempt status, which is a very big deal because 200 00:11:48,240 --> 00:11:50,480 Speaker 1: there's a lot of money involved in many of these. 201 00:11:50,559 --> 00:11:52,760 Speaker 1: I've been trying to get that for myself for years, 202 00:11:53,360 --> 00:11:55,440 Speaker 1: and you're right, it is a very big deal. The 203 00:11:55,520 --> 00:11:58,600 Speaker 1: Church of Josh, just get it going. That's so I'm 204 00:11:58,600 --> 00:12:02,320 Speaker 1: wearing this robe right now. Uh. In the nineteen fifties, though, 205 00:12:02,360 --> 00:12:06,000 Speaker 1: is when Congress really kind of because they were tax exempt, 206 00:12:06,000 --> 00:12:08,920 Speaker 1: had to get involved and say, hey, listen, you gotta 207 00:12:08,960 --> 00:12:12,160 Speaker 1: walk a line here. You politically, you can't um if 208 00:12:12,160 --> 00:12:14,720 Speaker 1: you want to keep this tax exemption. Now, oh yeah, 209 00:12:14,880 --> 00:12:18,680 Speaker 1: we for sure do. Um. They said, you can't be partisan, 210 00:12:19,120 --> 00:12:23,080 Speaker 1: it's got to be good information. You can't um slant 211 00:12:23,120 --> 00:12:27,920 Speaker 1: things a certain way or support officially support or endorsed candidates. Um, 212 00:12:27,960 --> 00:12:32,960 Speaker 1: you are here to educate with your objective work. And uh. 213 00:12:33,040 --> 00:12:34,840 Speaker 1: That went along for a while, and then we started 214 00:12:34,840 --> 00:12:39,760 Speaker 1: getting think tanks that set out to do just that um, 215 00:12:39,880 --> 00:12:43,319 Speaker 1: which they are called advocacy. Advocacy think tanks now, which 216 00:12:43,679 --> 00:12:47,120 Speaker 1: I'm not sure how they managed to skirt unless they 217 00:12:47,200 --> 00:12:50,400 Speaker 1: change the rules, skirt those rules and say, hey, we're 218 00:12:50,400 --> 00:12:53,000 Speaker 1: gonna be a conservative think tank or or liberal think 219 00:12:53,040 --> 00:12:57,760 Speaker 1: tank and still be tax exempt. The do you know? 220 00:12:58,040 --> 00:13:00,440 Speaker 1: The only thing that I can tell is that they're 221 00:13:00,520 --> 00:13:06,400 Speaker 1: still technically producing a public good if or if they 222 00:13:06,440 --> 00:13:09,320 Speaker 1: believe that they're producing a public good, even if they 223 00:13:09,400 --> 00:13:13,080 Speaker 1: have conservative alignment or a liberal alignment. They're trying to 224 00:13:13,200 --> 00:13:15,840 Speaker 1: move society along in a way that they think is 225 00:13:15,920 --> 00:13:19,839 Speaker 1: good or for the betterment of society. Stuff. Dude, That's 226 00:13:19,840 --> 00:13:21,560 Speaker 1: what I've been telling I mean, could we be a 227 00:13:21,600 --> 00:13:26,679 Speaker 1: think tank? Absolutely not. I mean think about it, like, 228 00:13:27,920 --> 00:13:30,439 Speaker 1: I mean, I guess we could. I think that there's 229 00:13:30,480 --> 00:13:32,320 Speaker 1: a I don't Okay, let me take that back. No, 230 00:13:32,400 --> 00:13:34,840 Speaker 1: we absolutely couldn't because we can't be brought to you 231 00:13:34,920 --> 00:13:39,400 Speaker 1: by we don't have we don't have time. I don't know, 232 00:13:39,520 --> 00:13:41,840 Speaker 1: that's a good question, but we don't have. Yeah, you 233 00:13:41,840 --> 00:13:45,360 Speaker 1: couldn't advertise and have like you couldn't get advertiser money 234 00:13:45,520 --> 00:13:48,000 Speaker 1: and be tax exempt. That's just like a doubt. If 235 00:13:48,080 --> 00:13:52,439 Speaker 1: the Brookings institutions papers have like Burger King coupons on them, 236 00:13:52,559 --> 00:13:55,440 Speaker 1: you never know. So we'll get to why we can't 237 00:13:55,480 --> 00:13:59,240 Speaker 1: be later on. But one of the things about about 238 00:13:59,320 --> 00:14:03,080 Speaker 1: think tanks is they're they're the reason they have a 239 00:14:03,160 --> 00:14:05,800 Speaker 1: tax exempt status is what they're doing is producing work 240 00:14:05,840 --> 00:14:09,400 Speaker 1: that furthers the public good. That's why they're supposed to 241 00:14:09,440 --> 00:14:12,200 Speaker 1: have tax exempt status. What you're pointing out is a 242 00:14:12,280 --> 00:14:15,160 Speaker 1: really good thing to point out, Like, wait a minute, 243 00:14:15,160 --> 00:14:17,640 Speaker 1: there's a lot of stuff here that that they could 244 00:14:17,720 --> 00:14:20,200 Speaker 1: lose their tax exempt status for. And if we fast 245 00:14:20,200 --> 00:14:22,360 Speaker 1: forward to three or five years from now, I think 246 00:14:22,360 --> 00:14:26,520 Speaker 1: we're going to start seeing them lose tax exempt status. Um, 247 00:14:26,760 --> 00:14:29,440 Speaker 1: they just haven't yet, I think is what it is. Yeah, 248 00:14:29,440 --> 00:14:32,280 Speaker 1: because some of them flat out like it's so obvious 249 00:14:32,280 --> 00:14:35,840 Speaker 1: when they come around like uh, when the Democrats were 250 00:14:35,840 --> 00:14:40,000 Speaker 1: beaten in two thousand, they got together and they started, uh, 251 00:14:40,200 --> 00:14:43,840 Speaker 1: left leaning thinkers got together and started the Center for 252 00:14:43,880 --> 00:14:49,000 Speaker 1: American Progress, which is an economic organization. It says it's nonpartisan, 253 00:14:49,720 --> 00:14:53,000 Speaker 1: but it literally says, as a quote, their goal is 254 00:14:53,040 --> 00:14:57,240 Speaker 1: to develop new policy ideas, critique the policy that stems 255 00:14:57,240 --> 00:15:02,000 Speaker 1: from conservative values, lanches the media to cover the issues 256 00:15:02,040 --> 00:15:05,480 Speaker 1: that truly matter and shape the national debate. So it's 257 00:15:05,560 --> 00:15:07,960 Speaker 1: they're they're kind of flat out saying like we're out 258 00:15:07,960 --> 00:15:13,640 Speaker 1: too prove, not just have an opinion about Maybe that's 259 00:15:13,640 --> 00:15:19,040 Speaker 1: a distinction, out to prove that conservative economic values are 260 00:15:19,080 --> 00:15:21,880 Speaker 1: bad for the country. Basically, Yeah, is that the difference. 261 00:15:21,920 --> 00:15:25,640 Speaker 1: Maybe it's like, here's our data. I honestly don't know, dude. 262 00:15:25,680 --> 00:15:28,960 Speaker 1: It's not a bunch of op eds thrown together. It's 263 00:15:29,040 --> 00:15:31,960 Speaker 1: so so No, it's not supposed to just be op eds. 264 00:15:31,960 --> 00:15:35,160 Speaker 1: It's supposed to be backed by data. Yeah. But but 265 00:15:35,280 --> 00:15:37,480 Speaker 1: I mean, like Center for American Progress, or like the 266 00:15:37,560 --> 00:15:42,960 Speaker 1: Heritage Foundation, or like ALEC, h the American Legislative Exchange Council, 267 00:15:43,440 --> 00:15:45,800 Speaker 1: like these are like and we're gonna do a whole 268 00:15:45,840 --> 00:15:49,520 Speaker 1: episode just on ALEC one day. Okay, seriously, but they're 269 00:15:49,560 --> 00:15:53,360 Speaker 1: like little, they're like Kareem Abdul Jabbar, like karate training 270 00:15:53,440 --> 00:15:58,960 Speaker 1: islands for liberals or for conservatives or for um rich 271 00:15:59,120 --> 00:16:02,160 Speaker 1: billionaire follow worse, like it doesn't matter, Like that's what 272 00:16:02,280 --> 00:16:04,720 Speaker 1: they are there there. They come up with new ideas 273 00:16:05,040 --> 00:16:09,080 Speaker 1: to push their agenda, and then they train activists to 274 00:16:09,120 --> 00:16:11,840 Speaker 1: go out and get that message out, to change people's minds, 275 00:16:11,880 --> 00:16:14,400 Speaker 1: to get themselves on CNN or Fox News or whatever, 276 00:16:14,960 --> 00:16:19,000 Speaker 1: and to shape the public discussion on on something. It 277 00:16:19,040 --> 00:16:21,440 Speaker 1: has a lot of the contours of what think tanks 278 00:16:21,520 --> 00:16:24,160 Speaker 1: used to have, but there's this whole other layer of 279 00:16:24,200 --> 00:16:27,440 Speaker 1: like like seeing you and grizzle there that that that 280 00:16:27,560 --> 00:16:29,760 Speaker 1: I think tanks aren't supposed to have. Should we take 281 00:16:29,800 --> 00:16:31,880 Speaker 1: a break? All right, we'll take a break in we'll 282 00:16:32,080 --> 00:16:34,120 Speaker 1: talk a little bit more about the Heritage Foundation right 283 00:16:34,120 --> 00:17:02,800 Speaker 1: after this. All right, nineteen eighties, the Heritage Foundation, which 284 00:17:02,800 --> 00:17:09,000 Speaker 1: you briefly mentured, mentored, that's the new mentioned before before 285 00:17:09,000 --> 00:17:13,719 Speaker 1: he broke. They came about broke, they said, all right, 286 00:17:13,960 --> 00:17:17,960 Speaker 1: it's nineteen eighties. We got Ronald Reagan in there. He 287 00:17:18,160 --> 00:17:21,240 Speaker 1: is watching movies or asleep most of the time, so 288 00:17:21,280 --> 00:17:24,159 Speaker 1: we have a good opportunity. That's how they want you 289 00:17:24,240 --> 00:17:26,480 Speaker 1: to think he has a good Did you see the 290 00:17:26,560 --> 00:17:30,879 Speaker 1: numbers about his uh movie watching? No? Oh man, it's great. 291 00:17:31,560 --> 00:17:33,800 Speaker 1: Like a movie fan, it's great. How many movies did 292 00:17:33,840 --> 00:17:36,199 Speaker 1: he watch? Your day? He watched a lot of movies. 293 00:17:36,320 --> 00:17:38,760 Speaker 1: And this is like back when they just had like reels, 294 00:17:38,840 --> 00:17:41,240 Speaker 1: right films trip. I guess they probably just you know, 295 00:17:41,400 --> 00:17:43,560 Speaker 1: cue the projector when he he and Nancy wanted to 296 00:17:43,560 --> 00:17:47,800 Speaker 1: watch it a good old fashioned western starring me. Can 297 00:17:47,880 --> 00:17:51,440 Speaker 1: you do the rest of the episode as ready? No? Uh? 298 00:17:51,600 --> 00:17:53,640 Speaker 1: So they came along and they said, all right, Reagan's 299 00:17:53,640 --> 00:17:58,280 Speaker 1: in in office. Here are our recommendations. What up I 300 00:17:58,280 --> 00:18:01,520 Speaker 1: would call a blueprint for grabbing the government by its 301 00:18:01,560 --> 00:18:05,440 Speaker 1: frayed New Deal lapels and shaking out forty eight years 302 00:18:05,480 --> 00:18:09,200 Speaker 1: of liberal policy. And it came by way of two thousand, 303 00:18:09,320 --> 00:18:13,240 Speaker 1: more than two thousand recommendations, and they tried to institute 304 00:18:13,240 --> 00:18:15,520 Speaker 1: about two thirds of them. Yeah. Reagan was like, great, 305 00:18:16,400 --> 00:18:22,359 Speaker 1: here's my thanks for the outline for what I should do. Right. Yeah, 306 00:18:22,440 --> 00:18:24,960 Speaker 1: so two thirds, like he said during his two terms, 307 00:18:25,000 --> 00:18:27,200 Speaker 1: is what he tried to implement. And then, of course 308 00:18:27,200 --> 00:18:31,080 Speaker 1: when Bill Clinton gets in there, the Progressive Policy Institute, Um, 309 00:18:31,240 --> 00:18:33,280 Speaker 1: I don't know if it was two thousand plus, but 310 00:18:33,920 --> 00:18:37,240 Speaker 1: they offered similar recommendations. And that's how it goes the 311 00:18:37,359 --> 00:18:41,240 Speaker 1: think tanks right now. Yeah, because if you're a lawmaker, 312 00:18:41,440 --> 00:18:43,879 Speaker 1: and again we said this in the Lobbying episode two, 313 00:18:44,240 --> 00:18:49,600 Speaker 1: you're not necessarily like some smart whip crack sharp person. No, 314 00:18:49,720 --> 00:18:51,920 Speaker 1: I think we've seen that played out. You can just 315 00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:55,400 Speaker 1: like give people to vote for you. Yeah, on both 316 00:18:55,400 --> 00:18:57,439 Speaker 1: sides of the aisle. It's just a crack at like 317 00:18:57,520 --> 00:18:59,119 Speaker 1: you know Trump or anything. Oh no, no, no no, I 318 00:18:59,160 --> 00:19:02,760 Speaker 1: mean on all up and down the House and Senate. Right. 319 00:19:02,880 --> 00:19:05,040 Speaker 1: You don't like to think they're all geniuses, but they're not. 320 00:19:05,119 --> 00:19:07,439 Speaker 1: They're not. And you don't have to be smart to 321 00:19:07,520 --> 00:19:09,720 Speaker 1: hold office. Um, you just have to get people to 322 00:19:09,800 --> 00:19:12,840 Speaker 1: vote for you. Again, which is why I think tanks 323 00:19:12,840 --> 00:19:15,800 Speaker 1: have flourished for so long, why lobbyists have flourished for 324 00:19:15,840 --> 00:19:18,600 Speaker 1: so long, because they're the ones who do the research 325 00:19:18,920 --> 00:19:21,800 Speaker 1: and write the policy and say, here you go. You 326 00:19:21,840 --> 00:19:24,480 Speaker 1: want to go look smart, here you go, buddy. We 327 00:19:24,560 --> 00:19:27,520 Speaker 1: even like highlighted some sound bites for you to go, 328 00:19:27,720 --> 00:19:30,040 Speaker 1: say two people and get the get into the twenty 329 00:19:30,040 --> 00:19:32,600 Speaker 1: four hour news cycle. And that's one of the big 330 00:19:32,720 --> 00:19:35,760 Speaker 1: roles that think tanks played today is by and and 331 00:19:35,800 --> 00:19:38,000 Speaker 1: have you know, especially since World War Two, is by 332 00:19:38,040 --> 00:19:40,760 Speaker 1: going to policy makers and being like, here's your agenda, 333 00:19:41,200 --> 00:19:42,920 Speaker 1: take your leave as much as you want. But all 334 00:19:42,960 --> 00:19:46,119 Speaker 1: of this is backed by data, like it dovetails with 335 00:19:46,200 --> 00:19:48,760 Speaker 1: what you want to do with the country, and it 336 00:19:48,920 --> 00:19:53,640 Speaker 1: is just gangbusters stuff. It's high quality, well researched stuff. Yeah, 337 00:19:53,640 --> 00:19:56,120 Speaker 1: it's really interesting because I think there are still think 338 00:19:56,160 --> 00:20:02,879 Speaker 1: tanks that only craft U only do research and present 339 00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:05,240 Speaker 1: it and say do what you will with it. But 340 00:20:05,280 --> 00:20:08,600 Speaker 1: those seem to be more and more gone by the wayside. 341 00:20:08,720 --> 00:20:11,639 Speaker 1: Two ten was a real watershed year. It feels like 342 00:20:11,720 --> 00:20:14,560 Speaker 1: for think tanks. Yeah, like you mentioned ALEC, which we're 343 00:20:14,560 --> 00:20:17,480 Speaker 1: going to cover in full, but I mean they are 344 00:20:17,520 --> 00:20:22,600 Speaker 1: they are a bill writing organization. They call them model bills. 345 00:20:23,400 --> 00:20:25,480 Speaker 1: But I mean when when you hear a senator or 346 00:20:25,520 --> 00:20:28,280 Speaker 1: something said, you know, we crafted this legislation, well, that 347 00:20:28,320 --> 00:20:31,919 Speaker 1: probably means is an organization Like ALEC handed them the 348 00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:35,679 Speaker 1: legislation and said here, you know, here it is if 349 00:20:35,680 --> 00:20:38,400 Speaker 1: you want to use it, and you probably should want 350 00:20:38,400 --> 00:20:41,440 Speaker 1: to use it. That's so. That is so ALEC I think, 351 00:20:41,560 --> 00:20:44,120 Speaker 1: does in many ways qualify as a think tank. They're 352 00:20:44,160 --> 00:20:50,760 Speaker 1: not add percent standard think tank, but actually writing the law. Yeah, 353 00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:54,000 Speaker 1: and for the lawmaker to go into do and go 354 00:20:54,040 --> 00:20:57,160 Speaker 1: into Congress and introduce it as their own bill. That's 355 00:20:57,160 --> 00:21:00,160 Speaker 1: a little beyond what think tanks to think tanks were 356 00:21:00,200 --> 00:21:04,440 Speaker 1: like write a paper that says, here's this problem in America, 357 00:21:04,680 --> 00:21:07,240 Speaker 1: here's some ideas to solve it. Here's this research to 358 00:21:07,280 --> 00:21:10,479 Speaker 1: back up those ideas, go write a law based on it. 359 00:21:10,680 --> 00:21:13,280 Speaker 1: What things like ALEC does is take it a step further. 360 00:21:13,600 --> 00:21:16,560 Speaker 1: But ALEX still qualifies as a think tank. And ALEC 361 00:21:16,720 --> 00:21:20,800 Speaker 1: is part of something called the State Policy Network, which 362 00:21:20,840 --> 00:21:24,240 Speaker 1: apparently is there's one in every state and Puerto Rico. 363 00:21:24,560 --> 00:21:26,919 Speaker 1: And they're like a confederation of think tanks that basically 364 00:21:26,920 --> 00:21:30,879 Speaker 1: sit around and figure out ways to sue local, state 365 00:21:31,040 --> 00:21:35,160 Speaker 1: and federal law lawmakers over laws, to try to get 366 00:21:35,240 --> 00:21:38,680 Speaker 1: laws overturned, like they used the courts rather than the legislation. 367 00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:43,119 Speaker 1: But um, it's still the stated goal is to affect 368 00:21:43,600 --> 00:21:47,120 Speaker 1: public policy and turn it in one direction or another. Yeah, 369 00:21:47,119 --> 00:21:52,520 Speaker 1: what was what was the website that you sent? Source Watch? Yes? 370 00:21:52,640 --> 00:21:57,480 Speaker 1: Source Watch called them, uh, called ALEC a corporate bill mill. Right, 371 00:21:57,560 --> 00:22:01,000 Speaker 1: So they're just churning out hundreds of bill a year. 372 00:22:01,880 --> 00:22:04,040 Speaker 1: Not all of them get used, but many of them do. 373 00:22:05,280 --> 00:22:06,679 Speaker 1: And it's just I don't know. I don't think a 374 00:22:06,680 --> 00:22:10,600 Speaker 1: lot of Americans realize that a lot of actual legislative 375 00:22:10,640 --> 00:22:16,439 Speaker 1: policy is being written by McDonald's. Yeah, exactly, it's crazy. 376 00:22:16,520 --> 00:22:18,800 Speaker 1: I can't wait to do the alquum. We're both going 377 00:22:18,840 --> 00:22:21,440 Speaker 1: to be well, our cars are gonna blow up right after, 378 00:22:21,760 --> 00:22:24,359 Speaker 1: but by god, we're gonna get that episode. Maybe we 379 00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:27,880 Speaker 1: should make that or like last episode in the year whatever, 380 00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:32,639 Speaker 1: what's twenty years from now, two thousands now? That was 381 00:22:32,720 --> 00:22:38,760 Speaker 1: eighteen years ago. I used to love that bit though. Um. Alright, 382 00:22:38,840 --> 00:22:44,800 Speaker 1: so we got to talk about money here because this uh, 383 00:22:44,840 --> 00:22:49,840 Speaker 1: they are not, um, the independent most times these days 384 00:22:49,840 --> 00:22:54,040 Speaker 1: they're not the independent organizations that you think they are. Uh. 385 00:22:54,080 --> 00:22:58,400 Speaker 1: They used to be funded by these endowments and um. 386 00:22:58,560 --> 00:23:02,440 Speaker 1: More and more, it's it's corporation ends, large businesses. Sometimes 387 00:23:02,520 --> 00:23:06,919 Speaker 1: private individuals of course, will give. And sometimes it's a 388 00:23:07,040 --> 00:23:10,960 Speaker 1: great work around for campaign finance laws. Instead of directing 389 00:23:11,560 --> 00:23:13,439 Speaker 1: you know, you know, tens of millions of dollars like 390 00:23:13,480 --> 00:23:16,000 Speaker 1: you can't do to a campaign, you can throw it 391 00:23:16,040 --> 00:23:19,160 Speaker 1: in a think tank that will probably get a better result. Anyway, 392 00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:22,919 Speaker 1: that's new the time was it used to be like 393 00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:28,240 Speaker 1: in my day, right, a rich philanthropist would say, I 394 00:23:28,320 --> 00:23:32,640 Speaker 1: hate poverty and the effects that has on Americans. Go 395 00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:35,720 Speaker 1: figure this out. I'm gonna fund to think tank. And 396 00:23:35,760 --> 00:23:39,040 Speaker 1: that's how you're dedicated to like just go make that happen. 397 00:23:39,440 --> 00:23:42,240 Speaker 1: And that's what think tanks were originally born from. And 398 00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:45,240 Speaker 1: that's largely the the only kind of oversight they worked 399 00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:48,560 Speaker 1: under is they were trying to end poverty, or they 400 00:23:48,560 --> 00:23:54,359 Speaker 1: were trying to work against communism, like these huge, haughty goals. 401 00:23:55,560 --> 00:23:59,639 Speaker 1: Now they're being micromanaged. That's one thing that's happening to them. Yeah, 402 00:23:59,680 --> 00:24:03,240 Speaker 1: And the idea that the these think tanks are not 403 00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:08,840 Speaker 1: suede or influence are affected by their donors is not true. 404 00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:11,159 Speaker 1: And the sort of the biggest problem going is that 405 00:24:11,720 --> 00:24:14,680 Speaker 1: now you have legislation being drawn up by think tanks 406 00:24:14,720 --> 00:24:19,800 Speaker 1: because corporations are paying money to get research that looks 407 00:24:19,840 --> 00:24:22,439 Speaker 1: like it's in their favor. Yeah. So, so one of 408 00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:27,240 Speaker 1: the problems is the like, there's not as many philanthropists 409 00:24:27,280 --> 00:24:31,320 Speaker 1: who are just endowing think tanks with no strings attached anymore. 410 00:24:31,720 --> 00:24:34,480 Speaker 1: There are plenty of philanthropists out there still that are 411 00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:40,040 Speaker 1: are funding think tanks, but their donations are directed, their 412 00:24:40,119 --> 00:24:43,280 Speaker 1: results oriented. They're very technocratic, right, they want to see 413 00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:46,120 Speaker 1: bang for their buck. Whereas before it was just like 414 00:24:46,240 --> 00:24:48,679 Speaker 1: to make America a better place and that was it. 415 00:24:48,760 --> 00:24:52,720 Speaker 1: There wasn't a lot of like um um, nobody's feet 416 00:24:52,760 --> 00:24:56,040 Speaker 1: were being held to the fire, you know. Now it's like, 417 00:24:56,840 --> 00:25:00,960 Speaker 1: we want you to further this specific agenda, which is 418 00:25:01,160 --> 00:25:04,879 Speaker 1: um uh, we want to make sure that St. Louis's 419 00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:08,680 Speaker 1: children there's not a single one malnourished any longer. Which 420 00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:10,879 Speaker 1: is great, it's a great goal. There's nothing wrong with 421 00:25:10,920 --> 00:25:14,800 Speaker 1: that goal. But it's just so very narrowed and tailored, 422 00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:19,600 Speaker 1: and there's ways that you can hold the think tank accountable, 423 00:25:19,760 --> 00:25:22,000 Speaker 1: which is good in one hand, but it's also basically 424 00:25:22,040 --> 00:25:26,320 Speaker 1: the introduction of like a corporate management to think tanks, 425 00:25:26,320 --> 00:25:29,040 Speaker 1: which that's not really how they were originally formed, and 426 00:25:29,040 --> 00:25:31,600 Speaker 1: it's having a weird effect on them. So think tanks 427 00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:34,520 Speaker 1: are starting to say, all right, we thank you for 428 00:25:34,560 --> 00:25:37,520 Speaker 1: this money. We'll go save the children of St. Louis. 429 00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:39,840 Speaker 1: But and by the way, shout out at St. Louis. 430 00:25:39,880 --> 00:25:44,520 Speaker 1: That was a great show that um so again saving 431 00:25:44,520 --> 00:25:47,000 Speaker 1: the children St. Louis good stuff, but we've got all 432 00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:48,879 Speaker 1: this other stuff we want to do too, So to 433 00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:51,440 Speaker 1: keep that going, we're gonna have to also go find 434 00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:55,480 Speaker 1: sources elsewhere. And again you can find them from other 435 00:25:55,640 --> 00:25:58,280 Speaker 1: other people, but one of the places they're finding them 436 00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:02,560 Speaker 1: from his corporations. And that it's having a big negative 437 00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:05,000 Speaker 1: impact on think tanks right now. Yeah, and it goes 438 00:26:05,080 --> 00:26:08,399 Speaker 1: both ways. In the past, you know, eight or ten years, 439 00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:11,960 Speaker 1: conservative billionaires of says that here they funneled a hundred 440 00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:14,760 Speaker 1: and twenty million dollars to about a hundred groups and 441 00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:20,120 Speaker 1: think tanks, uh to do things like discredit climate change science, um, 442 00:26:20,200 --> 00:26:24,840 Speaker 1: which I mean, dude. The Koke Brothers and x On 443 00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:28,680 Speaker 1: Mobile specifically funded a couple of think tanks called Atlas 444 00:26:29,160 --> 00:26:34,240 Speaker 1: Economic Research Foundation and the International Policy Network to basically 445 00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:39,080 Speaker 1: to basically question the science behind climate change to further 446 00:26:39,160 --> 00:26:42,560 Speaker 1: fossil fuel interests, which is, see you guys in hell 447 00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:46,919 Speaker 1: for that one like that, What a crummy legacy to 448 00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:50,240 Speaker 1: leave on Earth just to make a few extra bucks. 449 00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:54,800 Speaker 1: Forget future generations they can all burn. Forget all the 450 00:26:55,160 --> 00:26:57,679 Speaker 1: endangered species that are on the brink of extinction that 451 00:26:57,720 --> 00:27:01,080 Speaker 1: are oh wait no, they're now extinct. It doesn't matter 452 00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:05,560 Speaker 1: because we made a few extra billion dollars. Yeah, that's 453 00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:09,600 Speaker 1: that's despicable. Well what uh, it's funny. I just watched 454 00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:13,040 Speaker 1: the movie Chinatown for a movie Crush episode and there's 455 00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:16,760 Speaker 1: that You ever seen that? Yeah, you know, most a 456 00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:20,919 Speaker 1: lot of that movie is about It was originally titled 457 00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:24,240 Speaker 1: Water and Power, you know, because it's about you know, 458 00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:28,760 Speaker 1: this weird uh political situation in Los Angeles and nineties 459 00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:31,320 Speaker 1: where they were diverting water to the valley which was 460 00:27:31,359 --> 00:27:34,679 Speaker 1: a desert and all these rich fat cats that were 461 00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:37,159 Speaker 1: getting the water diverted there, we're buying up land in 462 00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:40,479 Speaker 1: the valley, like hundreds of thousands of acres because they 463 00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:43,120 Speaker 1: knew it was going to be a lush green valley soon. 464 00:27:43,840 --> 00:27:46,119 Speaker 1: So all that really happened in l a Chinatown was 465 00:27:46,160 --> 00:27:49,399 Speaker 1: based on that. But there's that great scene when Jack 466 00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:55,399 Speaker 1: Nicholson is Jake get us uh confronts John Houston about 467 00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:58,080 Speaker 1: you know, he's the big bad guy no across and 468 00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:00,720 Speaker 1: he says, you know, how much money do you need? 469 00:28:00,880 --> 00:28:03,480 Speaker 1: How much how many more things can you buy? Or 470 00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:06,240 Speaker 1: this or that? And he says, what are you trying 471 00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:08,440 Speaker 1: to secure? And he looked at him and he said, 472 00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:11,480 Speaker 1: the future, Mr gittis and that's what it is. They're 473 00:28:11,480 --> 00:28:14,520 Speaker 1: they're not after more billions to buy more planes and 474 00:28:14,600 --> 00:28:17,960 Speaker 1: are bigger house. They're trying to leave that they that's 475 00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:20,760 Speaker 1: what they want out of their legacy, is they're trying 476 00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:24,280 Speaker 1: to affect the future and in their own specific way, 477 00:28:24,440 --> 00:28:27,040 Speaker 1: right But they're affecting the future in the worst way 478 00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:30,400 Speaker 1: possible according to us. And the problem is not according 479 00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:33,520 Speaker 1: to them, you know, but if you if you pull 480 00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:36,560 Speaker 1: enough people and just ask them plainly, if you took 481 00:28:36,600 --> 00:28:39,960 Speaker 1: money and billionaires in power and all that out of it, 482 00:28:40,280 --> 00:28:44,160 Speaker 1: do you want a better future for humanity and for 483 00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:48,360 Speaker 1: earth a hundred years from now? I would guess the 484 00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:51,840 Speaker 1: majority of people would say yes. And if you can say, well, 485 00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:55,280 Speaker 1: these guys are actually doing the opposite of ensuring that 486 00:28:55,360 --> 00:28:58,200 Speaker 1: right now, how do you feel about that? Most people 487 00:28:58,280 --> 00:29:01,719 Speaker 1: would say I don't feel so great about that. The 488 00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:04,000 Speaker 1: problem is that most people would also follow up with, 489 00:29:04,360 --> 00:29:07,440 Speaker 1: but what can we do? Right? They're they're rich, and 490 00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:09,760 Speaker 1: that's a great point. Let what can you do? Let 491 00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:11,920 Speaker 1: me hop back on Facebook and find a goat video. 492 00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:15,360 Speaker 1: That's when the hopelessness sets in, and that's what's causing 493 00:29:15,400 --> 00:29:18,360 Speaker 1: the paralysis in our our world right now is hopelessness. 494 00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:23,640 Speaker 1: That's that's not grim at all. By the way, everybody 495 00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:26,840 Speaker 1: be sure to listen to my new podcast, uh The 496 00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:29,040 Speaker 1: End of the World with Josh Clark. It's it's a 497 00:29:29,040 --> 00:29:33,360 Speaker 1: really uplifting coming very soon. Yeah, coming this fall sometime eventually. 498 00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:38,480 Speaker 1: Just stuck up on your happy bills. Uh So. In 499 00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:41,600 Speaker 1: two thousand thirteen, however, on the other side, uh left 500 00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:47,680 Speaker 1: leaning weekly magazine The Nation um revealed the positions of 501 00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:51,480 Speaker 1: the left leaning Center for American Progress and other think 502 00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:53,880 Speaker 1: tanks in DC are shaped by interest of their donors. 503 00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:58,200 Speaker 1: So it happens on both sides of the aisle for sure. Yeah, 504 00:29:58,240 --> 00:30:01,640 Speaker 1: oh yeah, yeah, No, it's an equal opportunity screwing that 505 00:30:01,720 --> 00:30:06,080 Speaker 1: the world is getting from lobbying from think tanks, from 506 00:30:06,080 --> 00:30:09,680 Speaker 1: from wealthy interests. Like, it's it's both both sides. Yeah. 507 00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:13,520 Speaker 1: So they're effectively unregistered lobbyist organizations now to a large degree, 508 00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:18,680 Speaker 1: and because their tax exempt, they're not obligated to release 509 00:30:18,760 --> 00:30:23,320 Speaker 1: financial statements or reveal their donors. So I'm surprised it 510 00:30:23,320 --> 00:30:25,400 Speaker 1: took that long for people to be like, wait a minute, 511 00:30:25,520 --> 00:30:28,000 Speaker 1: we can really take advantage here. So let's let's take 512 00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:29,920 Speaker 1: another break and then we'll get well, it will spell 513 00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:32,600 Speaker 1: out what the advantages are of hiring a think tank. 514 00:30:58,080 --> 00:31:01,520 Speaker 1: All right, Chuck, we're back a little warm under the collar. 515 00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:04,200 Speaker 1: I feel like we should mention this thing with the 516 00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:07,040 Speaker 1: Walton Family Foundation quickly, because that's interesting. I think this 517 00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:09,720 Speaker 1: is a great example of what I think tank can 518 00:31:09,760 --> 00:31:13,560 Speaker 1: do these days. Yeah, it's UM. Obviously, the Sam Walton 519 00:31:13,640 --> 00:31:17,640 Speaker 1: family of Walmart fame. UH. They fund a lot of 520 00:31:17,680 --> 00:31:20,600 Speaker 1: conservative think tanks. I think most people know that. UM. 521 00:31:20,640 --> 00:31:25,000 Speaker 1: But then they also fund funded one and think tanks 522 00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:28,840 Speaker 1: backed by Barack Obama when it came to the Affordable 523 00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:31,600 Speaker 1: Healthcare Act, and you're like, wait a minute, why would 524 00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:33,800 Speaker 1: they do something like that if they are a conservative 525 00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:37,560 Speaker 1: family supporting conservative causes. Then you do a little poking around, 526 00:31:37,640 --> 00:31:42,160 Speaker 1: and it turns out that uh, critics would say that um, 527 00:31:42,280 --> 00:31:46,960 Speaker 1: the healthcare bill that forced employers to pay for their 528 00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:50,680 Speaker 1: employees healthcare tax. Walmart was like, this is great because 529 00:31:50,760 --> 00:31:53,840 Speaker 1: we can afford to do this, but our mom and 530 00:31:53,880 --> 00:31:56,840 Speaker 1: pop competitors can't. So we're actually gonna try and get 531 00:31:56,840 --> 00:32:00,000 Speaker 1: this push through. Even though at its face it doesn't 532 00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:02,320 Speaker 1: quite make a lot of sense, it makes sense to them, 533 00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:04,640 Speaker 1: like why would Walmart take on the cost of their 534 00:32:04,680 --> 00:32:08,720 Speaker 1: their employees healthcare because they know that they can go 535 00:32:08,760 --> 00:32:13,160 Speaker 1: back to sleep. Everybody stop asking quests. Really interesting, it is, 536 00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:16,720 Speaker 1: it's fascinating. But that's one thing you can do is 537 00:32:17,280 --> 00:32:20,840 Speaker 1: donate to a think tank that's furthering your agenda. And 538 00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:25,720 Speaker 1: because think tanks are now largely agenda driven, there's a 539 00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:28,000 Speaker 1: lot of think tanks out there that can help you out. 540 00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:31,760 Speaker 1: And there's a new thing that's happening with think tanks 541 00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:35,360 Speaker 1: these days is they're starting to solicit corporate donations. And 542 00:32:35,360 --> 00:32:38,360 Speaker 1: one of the saddest stories is the story of the 543 00:32:38,360 --> 00:32:43,120 Speaker 1: Brookings Institution, the most centrist think tank that has put 544 00:32:43,120 --> 00:32:47,080 Speaker 1: out the Martial Plan that helped figure out the New 545 00:32:47,120 --> 00:32:50,960 Speaker 1: Deal and it's and how it addressed the depression, like 546 00:32:51,040 --> 00:32:55,840 Speaker 1: has done all this amazing stuff. Is now they hired 547 00:32:55,840 --> 00:33:01,240 Speaker 1: a lobbyist for their strategic development chief and they're now 548 00:33:01,360 --> 00:33:06,040 Speaker 1: soliciting corporate donations left and right, and they're basically this 549 00:33:06,120 --> 00:33:07,840 Speaker 1: is this is what you can get, Like if you 550 00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:11,400 Speaker 1: hire a think tanker, I'm sorry, you're you're not supposed 551 00:33:11,440 --> 00:33:15,280 Speaker 1: to say higher. If you enter into a partnership or 552 00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:18,720 Speaker 1: donate to a think tank and your your corporation or 553 00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:22,440 Speaker 1: a very wealthy person. You What the think tank will 554 00:33:22,480 --> 00:33:27,280 Speaker 1: do is they will basically get your ideas out there. 555 00:33:27,320 --> 00:33:30,280 Speaker 1: They will deploy. So first of all, let's say there's 556 00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:33,800 Speaker 1: this really great New York Times article about them. What 557 00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:38,479 Speaker 1: was the name of that company, the Lennar Corporation. They 558 00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:41,400 Speaker 1: wanted to build in San Francisco. They wanted to redevelop 559 00:33:41,440 --> 00:33:44,800 Speaker 1: the site in San Francisco, which whatever, apparently there was 560 00:33:44,840 --> 00:33:47,320 Speaker 1: pushback on it, or they were getting some sort of 561 00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:52,160 Speaker 1: pushback from the residents of San Francisco. So I guess 562 00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:54,880 Speaker 1: the Brookings Institution went to them and said, hey, we've 563 00:33:54,920 --> 00:33:58,040 Speaker 1: got some ideas for you. We can support this as 564 00:33:58,120 --> 00:34:01,040 Speaker 1: basically like a great idea of cities of the future, 565 00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:04,239 Speaker 1: and and we're going to lend the credibility of our 566 00:34:04,320 --> 00:34:08,000 Speaker 1: experts in our think tank to your project and make 567 00:34:08,040 --> 00:34:11,640 Speaker 1: it like a champion kind of thing, like a blue 568 00:34:11,640 --> 00:34:15,640 Speaker 1: type and archetype for how to further cities in America 569 00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:19,960 Speaker 1: your development projects. Their their home builders, but but with 570 00:34:20,200 --> 00:34:23,440 Speaker 1: Brookings Institution behind it, there was a veneer of something 571 00:34:23,719 --> 00:34:27,759 Speaker 1: bigger than building homes, bigger than redeveloping, something about the 572 00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:31,239 Speaker 1: future in progress, and Brookings like went to them and 573 00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:35,799 Speaker 1: in exchange for four grand Brookings like added this credibility 574 00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:37,879 Speaker 1: to it, got talking heads out there on the news 575 00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:40,480 Speaker 1: to talk up this development and like what it meant 576 00:34:40,520 --> 00:34:43,480 Speaker 1: for the future. And um, one of the other things 577 00:34:43,560 --> 00:34:46,040 Speaker 1: they did and can do is they can set up 578 00:34:46,239 --> 00:34:50,279 Speaker 1: summits conferences on cities of the future and get the 579 00:34:50,360 --> 00:34:53,799 Speaker 1: home builders and lawmakers into the same room to hang 580 00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:58,759 Speaker 1: out together. And so that's lobbying. Sure, there's no other 581 00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:01,040 Speaker 1: way to put it. That is lobbying, and they were 582 00:35:01,080 --> 00:35:04,160 Speaker 1: doing it on behalf of a specific corporation. There should 583 00:35:04,200 --> 00:35:07,799 Speaker 1: be no tax exemption whatsoever any longer. It doesn't matter 584 00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:10,080 Speaker 1: what side of the aisle you're on. If you're a taxpayer, 585 00:35:10,520 --> 00:35:16,279 Speaker 1: you are funding that bye bye through these tax exemptions 586 00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:19,839 Speaker 1: because we foot the bill for tax deduction. So if 587 00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:24,160 Speaker 1: a single corporation's interests are being served, even if society 588 00:35:24,239 --> 00:35:28,000 Speaker 1: in general is benefiting in some way, that's too much 589 00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:32,120 Speaker 1: of a slippery slope. That breaks the tax exemption status. 590 00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:34,880 Speaker 1: And then that that should go away. And that, sadly 591 00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:39,959 Speaker 1: is is apparently where Brookings the direction Brookings is going. Yeah, 592 00:35:40,040 --> 00:35:43,000 Speaker 1: and others too, I should say, oh, sure, sure, um, 593 00:35:43,040 --> 00:35:47,440 Speaker 1: even the ones that aren't maybe as outright uh are 594 00:35:47,520 --> 00:35:50,680 Speaker 1: on his bald face about this stuff. Um, Like a 595 00:35:50,680 --> 00:35:53,040 Speaker 1: lot of scholars say that you know, bought and paid 596 00:35:53,080 --> 00:35:56,320 Speaker 1: for research is sort of the exception. Still. But even 597 00:35:56,360 --> 00:35:59,759 Speaker 1: even so, there's still places where you know, you may 598 00:35:59,800 --> 00:36:03,280 Speaker 1: not it. Um, you may not push out certain research 599 00:36:03,320 --> 00:36:06,400 Speaker 1: if you think you're it might piss off your boss. Yeah, 600 00:36:06,400 --> 00:36:08,760 Speaker 1: which is the same thing or sort of self censor 601 00:36:08,840 --> 00:36:11,200 Speaker 1: yourself if you think, like, oh man, I don't know, 602 00:36:11,239 --> 00:36:14,960 Speaker 1: like we're getting donations now, like this might not please them, 603 00:36:15,120 --> 00:36:16,960 Speaker 1: it might make them look bad, so I probably should 604 00:36:17,040 --> 00:36:20,080 Speaker 1: just avoid this conclusion. Yeah. So maybe not of like 605 00:36:20,280 --> 00:36:24,680 Speaker 1: completely inventing a study or something, but being very selective 606 00:36:24,719 --> 00:36:27,440 Speaker 1: in what you choose to research or how you research 607 00:36:27,480 --> 00:36:30,160 Speaker 1: it or what you release is uh, you know, it's 608 00:36:30,160 --> 00:36:32,960 Speaker 1: another version of the same thing. It totally is. And 609 00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:34,880 Speaker 1: one of one of the other things that they've been 610 00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:37,439 Speaker 1: found to do a lot of think tanks um, or 611 00:36:37,520 --> 00:36:39,840 Speaker 1: one of the new things that think tanks do is 612 00:36:39,880 --> 00:36:43,319 Speaker 1: they will circulate drafts before there's a final draft two 613 00:36:43,400 --> 00:36:46,080 Speaker 1: donors like what do you think about this? And sometimes 614 00:36:46,160 --> 00:36:50,120 Speaker 1: their opinions will be incorporated into the final draft. That 615 00:36:50,360 --> 00:36:53,840 Speaker 1: is the antithesis of the spirit of think tanks and 616 00:36:53,880 --> 00:36:56,240 Speaker 1: what they were originally meant to do. They were supposed 617 00:36:56,280 --> 00:36:59,120 Speaker 1: to be, like, here's the facts, here's the research to 618 00:36:59,160 --> 00:37:01,279 Speaker 1: back it up. It is what it is. We think 619 00:37:01,320 --> 00:37:03,680 Speaker 1: you can apply it to make the world better in 620 00:37:03,719 --> 00:37:06,640 Speaker 1: this way, not what you know, what do you guys 621 00:37:06,640 --> 00:37:08,719 Speaker 1: think does this? Does this jibe with the kind of 622 00:37:08,760 --> 00:37:12,200 Speaker 1: sinks you selected for this redevelopment because we can change 623 00:37:12,200 --> 00:37:14,760 Speaker 1: this part to to jibe with the sinks you chose. 624 00:37:15,280 --> 00:37:17,560 Speaker 1: You know, that's just not what it's supposed to be. 625 00:37:17,840 --> 00:37:19,839 Speaker 1: And the reason that I think tanks are doing this 626 00:37:20,080 --> 00:37:25,399 Speaker 1: is they are in um existential danger through the death 627 00:37:25,440 --> 00:37:28,440 Speaker 1: of expertise that I remember I talked about in the 628 00:37:28,480 --> 00:37:32,560 Speaker 1: Elimination Diet episode. The problem is, it's not like America 629 00:37:32,680 --> 00:37:36,040 Speaker 1: just said we're sick of expertise, we're tired of you experts, 630 00:37:36,080 --> 00:37:38,400 Speaker 1: like you're always right, and we're tired of here and 631 00:37:38,440 --> 00:37:41,000 Speaker 1: you're always right. People got tired of being lied to 632 00:37:41,440 --> 00:37:46,000 Speaker 1: and misled and misinformed and manipulated, and they finally said, 633 00:37:46,080 --> 00:37:49,440 Speaker 1: you know what, experts, that's enough enough of you are 634 00:37:49,560 --> 00:37:51,839 Speaker 1: full of it, enough of you have let your credibility 635 00:37:51,880 --> 00:37:54,000 Speaker 1: be co opted. We're just not going to listen to 636 00:37:54,040 --> 00:37:56,520 Speaker 1: any of you anymore because we don't know who to trust. 637 00:37:57,120 --> 00:38:01,520 Speaker 1: And the experts brought about the death of expertise themselves 638 00:38:01,520 --> 00:38:04,520 Speaker 1: in large part. Yeah, and there's another Uh. There was 639 00:38:04,520 --> 00:38:07,360 Speaker 1: this article from the Washington Post called or think Tanks Obsolete, 640 00:38:07,920 --> 00:38:12,600 Speaker 1: which sort of argues along those lines um about and 641 00:38:12,640 --> 00:38:15,239 Speaker 1: also incorporates the Internet and the length of like a 642 00:38:15,280 --> 00:38:18,960 Speaker 1: research cycle, like with the Internet and Twitter and Facebook 643 00:38:18,960 --> 00:38:22,680 Speaker 1: and things like Ted talks. Uh. There's a guy, Donald Abelson, 644 00:38:22,760 --> 00:38:25,359 Speaker 1: a professor at University Western Ontario, wrote a book called 645 00:38:25,640 --> 00:38:28,799 Speaker 1: The Think Tanks Matter, where his conclusion basically is that 646 00:38:28,880 --> 00:38:33,040 Speaker 1: the marketplace of ideas, he says, has become congested and 647 00:38:33,520 --> 00:38:38,920 Speaker 1: you don't have time anymore to do a twelvemonth research 648 00:38:39,040 --> 00:38:44,839 Speaker 1: proposal to come to the following conclusions. When hundred Ted 649 00:38:44,880 --> 00:38:47,960 Speaker 1: talks over that twelve months will be published. Not picking 650 00:38:47,960 --> 00:38:50,919 Speaker 1: on ted talks are great, No, it's a good example though. 651 00:38:51,000 --> 00:38:52,560 Speaker 1: But you can push out of Ted talk. You can 652 00:38:52,560 --> 00:38:56,560 Speaker 1: push out uh Facebook live video as as an economist 653 00:38:56,880 --> 00:38:59,840 Speaker 1: and have a lot of sway you can They mentioned 654 00:38:59,840 --> 00:39:05,880 Speaker 1: in here the UH and the article about vaccines for instance. UH. 655 00:39:06,040 --> 00:39:07,880 Speaker 1: When as far as it goes with the vaccines. The 656 00:39:07,960 --> 00:39:10,680 Speaker 1: Rand Corporation one of the largest thing thanks that we 657 00:39:10,680 --> 00:39:14,319 Speaker 1: already mentioned. They did like a very thorough deep dive 658 00:39:14,360 --> 00:39:19,840 Speaker 1: in research, uh, debunking the notion that vaccines cause autism. 659 00:39:19,880 --> 00:39:23,040 Speaker 1: And it took a long time. But you can get 660 00:39:23,080 --> 00:39:26,279 Speaker 1: on Facebook and go to a group called Educate before 661 00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:31,120 Speaker 1: You Vaccinate and watch videos by non experts in people 662 00:39:31,120 --> 00:39:33,839 Speaker 1: are swayed these days by this stuff like why wait, 663 00:39:34,520 --> 00:39:36,400 Speaker 1: you know, the site the new cycle is so shortened. 664 00:39:37,239 --> 00:39:39,800 Speaker 1: You can't wait for a long deep dive research paper 665 00:39:39,840 --> 00:39:42,279 Speaker 1: to come out with some abstract summary that no one 666 00:39:42,360 --> 00:39:46,040 Speaker 1: reads anyway. And apparently now they're you know, they're written 667 00:39:46,040 --> 00:39:47,879 Speaker 1: in such a way where they will just say, uh, 668 00:39:48,520 --> 00:39:53,239 Speaker 1: abstract summary, this stinks. We shouldn't do it, you know, 669 00:39:53,320 --> 00:39:56,440 Speaker 1: they become so opinionated. I don't know, man, it's just 670 00:39:56,560 --> 00:39:59,799 Speaker 1: it's it's depressing to think that Facebook and Twitter have 671 00:40:00,719 --> 00:40:04,960 Speaker 1: outsized a think tank as far as they definitely have influence. Yeah, 672 00:40:05,600 --> 00:40:08,360 Speaker 1: and YouTube and basically anything that gives a voice to 673 00:40:08,520 --> 00:40:10,479 Speaker 1: the average person, which on the one hand is really 674 00:40:10,520 --> 00:40:13,760 Speaker 1: cool and great sort of democratizes it in a way, 675 00:40:13,800 --> 00:40:18,200 Speaker 1: but but at times, but it's tied into this death 676 00:40:18,200 --> 00:40:23,480 Speaker 1: of expertise in a really toxic manner. You know what 677 00:40:23,560 --> 00:40:27,080 Speaker 1: I'm saying, Like the two that that democratization of like 678 00:40:27,120 --> 00:40:30,200 Speaker 1: a like giving everybody like a mouthpieces, not in and 679 00:40:30,239 --> 00:40:33,520 Speaker 1: of itself like a bad thing, but when since it 680 00:40:33,600 --> 00:40:37,120 Speaker 1: coincided with the loss and trust and experts and expertise, 681 00:40:37,600 --> 00:40:41,160 Speaker 1: That's what where the problem came from. And that was 682 00:40:41,200 --> 00:40:43,480 Speaker 1: the reason why we couldn't be a think tank. Sadly, 683 00:40:43,560 --> 00:40:46,160 Speaker 1: we could be a think tank now, but we couldn't 684 00:40:46,200 --> 00:40:49,360 Speaker 1: be a bona fide think tank because, Chuck, we don't 685 00:40:49,400 --> 00:40:53,280 Speaker 1: have enough time in any given week to do so 686 00:40:53,360 --> 00:40:59,680 Speaker 1: much thorough um primary source research into stuff. If we do, 687 00:40:59,840 --> 00:41:01,880 Speaker 1: if we released one of these every couple of months, 688 00:41:01,880 --> 00:41:04,080 Speaker 1: sure we could be like a real think tank, but 689 00:41:05,320 --> 00:41:07,680 Speaker 1: it wouldn't be near least fun six episodes a year. 690 00:41:08,640 --> 00:41:12,680 Speaker 1: People would love that, Yeah, they love you. Got anything else? Nope, 691 00:41:14,000 --> 00:41:17,239 Speaker 1: I guess I don't either. Sorry for going off, everybody, 692 00:41:17,280 --> 00:41:20,600 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening. I'm sure I'll gets an email, But 693 00:41:20,719 --> 00:41:23,440 Speaker 1: what els is worth it? Uh? If you want to 694 00:41:23,440 --> 00:41:26,360 Speaker 1: know more about think tanks, well, I don't know, go 695 00:41:26,400 --> 00:41:28,080 Speaker 1: on the internet and look up some think tanks and 696 00:41:28,120 --> 00:41:30,080 Speaker 1: see if there's any that you agree with. A lot 697 00:41:30,120 --> 00:41:33,279 Speaker 1: of them have like daily interpretations of news that kind 698 00:41:33,280 --> 00:41:36,719 Speaker 1: of go through their lens. Um it's it's it's a 699 00:41:36,760 --> 00:41:39,640 Speaker 1: way to keep up with things. Uh. And you can 700 00:41:39,680 --> 00:41:42,200 Speaker 1: also read this article on how stuff works just not 701 00:41:42,280 --> 00:41:45,120 Speaker 1: a think tank, called how think tanks Work. And since 702 00:41:45,160 --> 00:41:49,759 Speaker 1: I said that's time for listener mail, I'm gonna call 703 00:41:49,800 --> 00:41:53,920 Speaker 1: this a ballpoint pen addiction for just pin addiction. Hey guys, 704 00:41:53,920 --> 00:41:56,000 Speaker 1: been listening for a couple of months or so, new listener. 705 00:41:56,640 --> 00:41:58,680 Speaker 1: You were my first foray into podcast. I just really 706 00:41:58,760 --> 00:42:01,799 Speaker 1: enjoy listening to you two. I saw the Ballpoint Pin 707 00:42:01,920 --> 00:42:04,279 Speaker 1: podcast and I could not pass it up. I have 708 00:42:04,320 --> 00:42:07,040 Speaker 1: a bit of a pin problem, you see. I own 709 00:42:07,160 --> 00:42:11,760 Speaker 1: many many pins, especially the gael type inc rollerball pins. 710 00:42:13,160 --> 00:42:15,040 Speaker 1: You got taken a test by quite a few people 711 00:42:15,040 --> 00:42:20,839 Speaker 1: who were just like Josh Clark harresy gel pins. Yeah, 712 00:42:21,239 --> 00:42:23,960 Speaker 1: there are a lot of I guess traditionalists to bhoopoo 713 00:42:24,040 --> 00:42:26,400 Speaker 1: that I think they're great. I got a lot of 714 00:42:26,440 --> 00:42:28,400 Speaker 1: support for that one too. I agreed, we got a 715 00:42:28,440 --> 00:42:31,239 Speaker 1: lot of pin recommendations. It was good to see. Uh. 716 00:42:31,239 --> 00:42:34,520 Speaker 1: And here's another one. I own many many pins, especially 717 00:42:34,560 --> 00:42:36,400 Speaker 1: the gel Inc roller ball pins. I also own a 718 00:42:36,400 --> 00:42:40,799 Speaker 1: collection of Sharpie's in various tip widths and colors. I 719 00:42:40,840 --> 00:42:43,640 Speaker 1: probably have a couple of gallon size zip block bags worth. 720 00:42:44,320 --> 00:42:46,120 Speaker 1: You mentioned the way certain pins right on certain types 721 00:42:46,160 --> 00:42:49,399 Speaker 1: of paper. I think it's probably the rollerball gel pins 722 00:42:49,400 --> 00:42:51,680 Speaker 1: that work best on the thermal paper that they use 723 00:42:51,719 --> 00:42:54,399 Speaker 1: the most restaurants. And I was talking about signing the check. 724 00:42:54,600 --> 00:42:56,319 Speaker 1: I think that's what she's talking. We still never found 725 00:42:56,360 --> 00:42:59,160 Speaker 1: out what that thing is called thermal paper. No, No, 726 00:42:59,480 --> 00:43:02,160 Speaker 1: the thing that the check comes out in the little portfolio, 727 00:43:02,280 --> 00:43:05,520 Speaker 1: the clamshell. Someone actually said, did you see that this 728 00:43:05,640 --> 00:43:09,239 Speaker 1: great couple sent in a picture of a clamshell check 729 00:43:09,840 --> 00:43:14,520 Speaker 1: delivery system. What are they called? I don't know, check Catty. 730 00:43:14,760 --> 00:43:17,600 Speaker 1: We're gonna we're gonna name them clamshells. Now, that's the 731 00:43:17,640 --> 00:43:19,839 Speaker 1: new name for him. So I have a favorite pin, 732 00:43:19,880 --> 00:43:22,440 Speaker 1: though guys by them by the box. Uh. It's the 733 00:43:22,560 --> 00:43:27,560 Speaker 1: pilot V ball B green pin, the point five millimeter. 734 00:43:28,320 --> 00:43:29,799 Speaker 1: I love the way they feel when they write. I 735 00:43:29,880 --> 00:43:32,680 Speaker 1: can't go back to ballpoint pins. Use them at work. 736 00:43:32,719 --> 00:43:34,239 Speaker 1: I carry at least three in my bag and I 737 00:43:34,320 --> 00:43:36,880 Speaker 1: draw and doodle with them. Using them on a newsprint 738 00:43:36,960 --> 00:43:41,200 Speaker 1: pad is my favorite thing when doing word art. Sorry 739 00:43:41,200 --> 00:43:42,840 Speaker 1: for the ramble, guys, have a great day. That is 740 00:43:42,840 --> 00:43:49,080 Speaker 1: from Davini and Barry, Davini Berry, Davini and Berry M. Berry. 741 00:43:49,200 --> 00:43:52,839 Speaker 1: I wasn't going okay, well, I didn't know if Davini's 742 00:43:52,840 --> 00:43:55,040 Speaker 1: middle initial was M, or if I was missed hearing 743 00:43:55,040 --> 00:43:58,600 Speaker 1: you and Davini and Berry. It's actually Davina, excuse me, 744 00:43:58,760 --> 00:44:01,640 Speaker 1: Davina M. Berry. If I would have said Davina and Barry, 745 00:44:01,719 --> 00:44:04,400 Speaker 1: that would have been much more clear. Or Embury. It 746 00:44:04,520 --> 00:44:07,719 Speaker 1: might be Davina Embury. What does it say Davina or Davinah? 747 00:44:08,040 --> 00:44:15,120 Speaker 1: Oh God about d E. Thanks d It's d I. 748 00:44:15,320 --> 00:44:17,960 Speaker 1: At any rate, we're glad that you started listening to us. 749 00:44:17,960 --> 00:44:19,920 Speaker 1: We appreciate and thanks for taking the time to let 750 00:44:20,000 --> 00:44:23,880 Speaker 1: us know about the Your benediction um totally fine with us. 751 00:44:24,560 --> 00:44:26,680 Speaker 1: If you want to let us know about something you're 752 00:44:26,680 --> 00:44:29,520 Speaker 1: super into, you can hang out with us on social meds. 753 00:44:29,840 --> 00:44:31,439 Speaker 1: You can go to stuff you Should Know dot com 754 00:44:31,480 --> 00:44:34,040 Speaker 1: and find all of our social media links. You can 755 00:44:34,080 --> 00:44:36,400 Speaker 1: also send us an email to stuff podcast at how 756 00:44:36,440 --> 00:44:43,440 Speaker 1: stuff works dot com for more on this and thousands 757 00:44:43,440 --> 00:44:53,080 Speaker 1: of other topics. Is it how stuff works dot com