1 00:00:00,480 --> 00:00:04,120 Speaker 1: Welcome to River Cafe, Table four, a production of iHeartRadio 2 00:00:04,160 --> 00:00:05,400 Speaker 1: and Adamized Studios. 3 00:00:08,480 --> 00:00:12,560 Speaker 2: There are actors who write, producers who direct, and cooks 4 00:00:12,640 --> 00:00:16,959 Speaker 2: who campaign for social change. Stanley Tucci does all of these. 5 00:00:17,920 --> 00:00:22,240 Speaker 2: He writes, cookbooks, creates and hosts a beautiful TV series 6 00:00:22,280 --> 00:00:27,240 Speaker 2: about Italy, and acts and directs movies that touch us all. 7 00:00:27,280 --> 00:00:31,319 Speaker 2: Stanley Tucci is respected and admired by every chef in 8 00:00:31,360 --> 00:00:33,680 Speaker 2: the River Cafe, especially me. 9 00:00:35,640 --> 00:00:40,600 Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, Ruthie, that's so nice. Now can I 10 00:00:40,680 --> 00:00:41,360 Speaker 3: leave now? 11 00:00:43,200 --> 00:00:50,159 Speaker 4: Okay, Barchi c. 12 00:00:54,000 --> 00:00:56,880 Speaker 2: So what we can do is, would you please read 13 00:00:56,880 --> 00:00:58,160 Speaker 2: the recipe that you've chosen. 14 00:01:03,320 --> 00:01:10,800 Speaker 3: Meze pacari cachoi pepe with langustines. Serve six six hundred 15 00:01:10,840 --> 00:01:17,119 Speaker 3: grams medze pacheti pasta, sixty grams unsalted butter, one hundred 16 00:01:17,120 --> 00:01:24,440 Speaker 3: and fifty grams pecorino freshly grated, four hundred grams medium languestines, cooked, 17 00:01:24,760 --> 00:01:29,919 Speaker 3: peeled and cut into pieces. Cook the pasta in plenty 18 00:01:29,959 --> 00:01:34,360 Speaker 3: of water until al dente. When draining the pasta, reserve 19 00:01:34,440 --> 00:01:37,640 Speaker 3: some of the cooking water for the sauce. Melt the 20 00:01:37,640 --> 00:01:40,600 Speaker 3: butter with the pecorino in a large pan over a 21 00:01:40,640 --> 00:01:43,680 Speaker 3: low heat adding some of the pasta water to create 22 00:01:43,720 --> 00:01:47,680 Speaker 3: a sauce. Add the languestines to the pecorino sauce with 23 00:01:47,800 --> 00:01:51,920 Speaker 3: black pepper, Add the hot pasta and mix until you 24 00:01:51,960 --> 00:01:56,640 Speaker 3: have a glossy sauce coating the pasta, adding more pasta 25 00:01:56,720 --> 00:02:01,480 Speaker 3: water if needed. Serve with extra pecora grated on top. 26 00:02:02,440 --> 00:02:06,080 Speaker 3: And it's also incredibly delicious. I just ate it. 27 00:02:07,000 --> 00:02:09,680 Speaker 2: So of all the recipes and all the cookbooks, and 28 00:02:09,760 --> 00:02:12,000 Speaker 2: you eat here a lot, and you're a cook, what 29 00:02:12,120 --> 00:02:13,760 Speaker 2: made you choose this recipes? 30 00:02:14,400 --> 00:02:16,120 Speaker 4: Well, lots of reasons. 31 00:02:16,520 --> 00:02:19,120 Speaker 3: One is that, as you say, you broke a rule, 32 00:02:19,480 --> 00:02:23,000 Speaker 3: which is you don't really put cheese with seafood in Italy. 33 00:02:24,040 --> 00:02:25,280 Speaker 4: I love pasta. 34 00:02:25,560 --> 00:02:28,839 Speaker 3: I eat pasta practically every day, sometimes twice a day. 35 00:02:29,800 --> 00:02:34,799 Speaker 3: I love languesteine, I love pecorino. Just made sense. It's 36 00:02:34,800 --> 00:02:36,200 Speaker 3: a gorgeous recipe. 37 00:02:35,919 --> 00:02:38,040 Speaker 4: Very few ingredients, very few ingredients. 38 00:02:38,080 --> 00:02:41,480 Speaker 3: But like most Italian cooking, it's incredibly few ingredients. I 39 00:02:41,520 --> 00:02:45,240 Speaker 3: sometimes feel guilty that I'm using the same thing, but 40 00:02:45,280 --> 00:02:48,720 Speaker 3: then when I look through cookbooks, I'm like, it's still 41 00:02:48,760 --> 00:02:52,000 Speaker 3: the same. It's all the same thing, but the iterations, 42 00:02:52,360 --> 00:02:55,720 Speaker 3: you know, the variations are extraordinary. Yeah, So your grandparents 43 00:02:56,120 --> 00:02:59,239 Speaker 3: came from My grandparents came from Columbria both sides. 44 00:02:59,320 --> 00:03:01,399 Speaker 2: Were they together before they came or did they meet? 45 00:03:01,480 --> 00:03:05,200 Speaker 3: No, No, they met because they came. My mother's mother 46 00:03:05,880 --> 00:03:08,600 Speaker 3: was three when she came to America, but her my 47 00:03:08,639 --> 00:03:11,079 Speaker 3: mother's father was in his mid twenties when he came. 48 00:03:11,480 --> 00:03:14,600 Speaker 3: They were about thirteen years apart an age or something 49 00:03:14,600 --> 00:03:16,320 Speaker 3: when they got married. I think she was sixteen or 50 00:03:17,000 --> 00:03:21,320 Speaker 3: seventeen when she got married. And my dad's father came 51 00:03:21,360 --> 00:03:26,120 Speaker 3: over in the early part of the first century and 52 00:03:26,440 --> 00:03:30,160 Speaker 3: his wife I think was maybe already here at that time, 53 00:03:31,560 --> 00:03:32,480 Speaker 3: and then they met. 54 00:03:32,280 --> 00:03:32,880 Speaker 4: And got married. 55 00:03:32,880 --> 00:03:36,080 Speaker 3: But you know, with the Italians, a lot of town's, 56 00:03:36,240 --> 00:03:40,840 Speaker 3: entire towns would basically move to the same area, to 57 00:03:40,880 --> 00:03:43,280 Speaker 3: the same area. It's one of the things we talked 58 00:03:43,280 --> 00:03:46,360 Speaker 3: about in the show. We did an episode on London 59 00:03:47,040 --> 00:03:51,320 Speaker 3: because there are so many Italians in London, and Angela 60 00:03:51,320 --> 00:03:57,800 Speaker 3: Hartnett did the show. She's half Welsh, half Italian or 61 00:03:58,000 --> 00:04:03,480 Speaker 3: you know, but her family came from Bardie and over 62 00:04:03,600 --> 00:04:06,960 Speaker 3: eighty percent or ninety percent of the Welsh Italians came 63 00:04:06,960 --> 00:04:07,760 Speaker 3: from that one town. 64 00:04:08,200 --> 00:04:09,920 Speaker 4: So they would just all move. 65 00:04:10,040 --> 00:04:13,240 Speaker 3: And the same in America too, because one guy moves over, 66 00:04:13,280 --> 00:04:15,960 Speaker 3: and then he brings his friend comes over and they're 67 00:04:16,000 --> 00:04:17,840 Speaker 3: getting work, and they bring their family over, and. 68 00:04:17,800 --> 00:04:19,000 Speaker 4: It just keeps and so. 69 00:04:19,120 --> 00:04:24,320 Speaker 2: Growing up with your grandparents, were they involved in the 70 00:04:24,360 --> 00:04:25,200 Speaker 2: food that you ate? 71 00:04:25,279 --> 00:04:25,520 Speaker 4: Did you? 72 00:04:26,320 --> 00:04:29,520 Speaker 3: We saw them every just about every week, we'd go 73 00:04:29,600 --> 00:04:34,839 Speaker 3: to visit them. And my maternal grandparents had this incredible 74 00:04:34,839 --> 00:04:37,600 Speaker 3: garden where they seemed to be able to grow anything 75 00:04:37,839 --> 00:04:38,680 Speaker 3: anytime of the year. 76 00:04:38,760 --> 00:04:39,840 Speaker 4: My grandfather had. 77 00:04:39,720 --> 00:04:43,880 Speaker 3: A fig tree, beautiful fig tree. No this was in 78 00:04:43,880 --> 00:04:47,800 Speaker 3: peak skill, but not for peak. They would take the 79 00:04:48,000 --> 00:04:51,120 Speaker 3: fig tree and in the winter they would wrap the 80 00:04:51,120 --> 00:04:55,320 Speaker 3: tree in plastic so that it would endure the winter. 81 00:04:55,760 --> 00:05:00,480 Speaker 2: When I talk to people about who've immigrated from another country, 82 00:05:00,680 --> 00:05:04,680 Speaker 2: they often talk more about the food of their grandparents 83 00:05:04,960 --> 00:05:09,520 Speaker 2: than their parents, because that's my experience as well, coming 84 00:05:09,600 --> 00:05:14,640 Speaker 2: from a Jewish immigrant family from Russia and Hungary. My grandparents, 85 00:05:15,120 --> 00:05:18,200 Speaker 2: I really remember their food. I don't think they really 86 00:05:18,400 --> 00:05:21,840 Speaker 2: mastered English much less the cooking of the United States, 87 00:05:21,880 --> 00:05:24,960 Speaker 2: where my mother, you know, adapted, and probably we as 88 00:05:25,040 --> 00:05:29,760 Speaker 2: children rejected anything but American food. And I think when 89 00:05:29,760 --> 00:05:33,120 Speaker 2: you talk to people, it's interesting how the grandmother features 90 00:05:34,360 --> 00:05:36,760 Speaker 2: is that or did your mother and father still have 91 00:05:36,839 --> 00:05:38,440 Speaker 2: a very strong sense of Italy. 92 00:05:38,680 --> 00:05:42,960 Speaker 3: Oh, yes, very much so. I mean they didn't speak Italian. 93 00:05:43,480 --> 00:05:45,839 Speaker 3: My father could speak a bit of Italian and they 94 00:05:45,880 --> 00:05:49,360 Speaker 3: could understand dialect, and because that's what you know, both 95 00:05:49,400 --> 00:05:56,880 Speaker 3: their parents spoke. But my mother swears to this day, 96 00:05:57,360 --> 00:05:59,400 Speaker 3: and my father told me that he goes your mother 97 00:05:59,400 --> 00:06:01,039 Speaker 3: couldn't cook. I met her and I was like, what 98 00:06:01,080 --> 00:06:03,719 Speaker 3: are you talking about this? I don't believe that story. 99 00:06:03,720 --> 00:06:06,200 Speaker 3: He said, no, Stanley, it actually is true. And my 100 00:06:06,279 --> 00:06:10,400 Speaker 3: mother admits it that her mother was a brilliant cook. Obviously, 101 00:06:10,680 --> 00:06:13,840 Speaker 3: my mother had this innate talent as well, and her 102 00:06:13,880 --> 00:06:17,559 Speaker 3: cooking today, still today is some of the best food 103 00:06:17,600 --> 00:06:19,240 Speaker 3: I've ever had. She's at my house now. 104 00:06:19,360 --> 00:06:19,520 Speaker 2: I know. 105 00:06:19,600 --> 00:06:21,240 Speaker 4: It's really disappointed, I know. 106 00:06:21,000 --> 00:06:24,240 Speaker 2: I mean, I can't say I was disappointed to see you, 107 00:06:24,360 --> 00:06:26,960 Speaker 2: because I was disappointed that I didn't see them. 108 00:06:27,040 --> 00:06:28,040 Speaker 4: You want to see my parents. 109 00:06:28,680 --> 00:06:31,120 Speaker 2: I love meeting parents. I love meeting the parents. 110 00:06:32,200 --> 00:06:35,279 Speaker 3: They're really great and they're really extraordinary. Like my mom 111 00:06:35,320 --> 00:06:37,880 Speaker 3: made a thing the other day that was just you know. 112 00:06:38,720 --> 00:06:41,840 Speaker 4: What she bess charged, Yeah, just what does she do? 113 00:06:43,200 --> 00:06:48,360 Speaker 3: She little boiling of it and then a little bit 114 00:06:48,400 --> 00:06:52,600 Speaker 3: of fresh tomato olive oil and a hint of garlic. 115 00:06:53,800 --> 00:06:56,000 Speaker 3: It was just one of the greatest things I've ever eaten. 116 00:06:56,080 --> 00:06:57,560 Speaker 3: And I said, well, how did you do that? I 117 00:06:58,080 --> 00:06:59,280 Speaker 3: try to do that, I can't do it. 118 00:07:00,800 --> 00:07:02,800 Speaker 2: I was born in Upstate, New York and you were 119 00:07:02,800 --> 00:07:06,160 Speaker 2: born not far away. My family were not a time 120 00:07:06,240 --> 00:07:09,800 Speaker 2: yours were. But the food that we grew up with 121 00:07:09,920 --> 00:07:13,640 Speaker 2: thinking was as we knew it was Italian food. Would 122 00:07:13,640 --> 00:07:16,160 Speaker 2: you say that was radically changed from when you actually 123 00:07:16,240 --> 00:07:16,880 Speaker 2: went to Italy? 124 00:07:16,920 --> 00:07:19,960 Speaker 3: And you know, yeah, I mean because I grew up 125 00:07:19,960 --> 00:07:23,240 Speaker 3: eating my family food because they were from Italy, So yeah, 126 00:07:23,280 --> 00:07:28,120 Speaker 3: there were, without question, there were similarities. But when I 127 00:07:28,320 --> 00:07:32,800 Speaker 3: would go to friends' houses and have what they thought 128 00:07:32,880 --> 00:07:37,880 Speaker 3: was Italian food, it was horrifying. I mean it was 129 00:07:37,920 --> 00:07:42,640 Speaker 3: just bad, you know, because the ingredients were lousy and 130 00:07:42,680 --> 00:07:43,920 Speaker 3: they didn't really understand it. 131 00:07:44,600 --> 00:07:47,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, for us, and I, you know, I grew up 132 00:07:47,600 --> 00:07:51,520 Speaker 2: with meatballs and spaghetti and an egg plot parmesana and 133 00:07:51,840 --> 00:07:54,680 Speaker 2: you know, and it just was heavy and it was rich, 134 00:07:54,720 --> 00:07:56,560 Speaker 2: and it was that version of it. 135 00:07:57,240 --> 00:08:00,080 Speaker 3: A lot of that Italian American food came out of 136 00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:07,840 Speaker 3: of suddenly having access to large amounts of meat, having 137 00:08:07,960 --> 00:08:16,400 Speaker 3: access to more so more was added, right, More sauce 138 00:08:16,520 --> 00:08:18,960 Speaker 3: was added because the Italians don't put a lot of 139 00:08:18,960 --> 00:08:22,920 Speaker 3: sauce really on pasta use a minimal amount for the 140 00:08:22,920 --> 00:08:28,000 Speaker 3: most part, whereas in America things are loaded with sauce 141 00:08:28,200 --> 00:08:30,960 Speaker 3: or loaded with cheese, or loaded with meat. And it 142 00:08:31,080 --> 00:08:33,640 Speaker 3: was about, you know, it was a land of plenty. 143 00:08:34,040 --> 00:08:37,760 Speaker 3: And also I think they were, you know, catering to 144 00:08:38,160 --> 00:08:40,520 Speaker 3: American tastes. 145 00:08:41,000 --> 00:08:41,559 Speaker 4: When did you. 146 00:08:41,559 --> 00:08:44,440 Speaker 2: Start eating in restaurants? Do you remember when that kind 147 00:08:44,480 --> 00:08:45,080 Speaker 2: of happened? 148 00:08:45,679 --> 00:08:45,880 Speaker 5: Yeah? 149 00:08:45,920 --> 00:08:49,520 Speaker 3: I started eating in restaurants when I no longer had 150 00:08:49,520 --> 00:08:50,400 Speaker 3: to work in them. 151 00:08:50,600 --> 00:08:51,480 Speaker 4: Yeah, do you know what I mean? 152 00:08:51,520 --> 00:08:54,840 Speaker 3: As an actor, it's kind of what you did to 153 00:08:54,880 --> 00:08:59,679 Speaker 3: make money, But working in them gave me a tremendous 154 00:09:00,080 --> 00:09:03,280 Speaker 3: ciation for them. And then finally when I had a 155 00:09:03,320 --> 00:09:05,559 Speaker 3: little bit of money and I could start going to restaurants, 156 00:09:05,640 --> 00:09:09,960 Speaker 3: I really got excited about it because I all knew 157 00:09:10,000 --> 00:09:13,200 Speaker 3: what was going on behind the scenes, and that was 158 00:09:13,200 --> 00:09:15,440 Speaker 3: sort of part of the genesis A Big Night, which 159 00:09:15,520 --> 00:09:19,200 Speaker 3: was it's almost thirty years ago now, that movie. I 160 00:09:19,240 --> 00:09:23,960 Speaker 3: wanted to write a story about the struggle between commerce 161 00:09:24,000 --> 00:09:28,320 Speaker 3: and art, but you can't really do that with a 162 00:09:28,360 --> 00:09:33,880 Speaker 3: painter because that is literally like watching paint dry, but 163 00:09:34,000 --> 00:09:37,640 Speaker 3: you could use the chef as artist. And also I 164 00:09:37,760 --> 00:09:43,319 Speaker 3: like the idea of not the idea the actuality that 165 00:09:43,400 --> 00:09:46,880 Speaker 3: you have off stage and you have on stage in 166 00:09:46,920 --> 00:09:49,280 Speaker 3: a restaurant just like the theater. 167 00:09:49,920 --> 00:09:51,160 Speaker 4: And I love that. 168 00:09:51,679 --> 00:09:54,959 Speaker 2: I love that too. And there were many scenes that 169 00:09:55,280 --> 00:09:59,120 Speaker 2: you stay in my mind forever. But interestingly enough, one 170 00:09:59,160 --> 00:10:02,960 Speaker 2: of my favorites is the very first scene where you 171 00:10:03,000 --> 00:10:06,000 Speaker 2: come out of the out of the front door having 172 00:10:06,000 --> 00:10:09,400 Speaker 2: been inside, and isn't there a pot with plants in it? 173 00:10:09,840 --> 00:10:12,560 Speaker 2: And you move it a centimeter, you know, and I 174 00:10:12,640 --> 00:10:16,680 Speaker 2: just thought, God, that reminds me of me. I mean 175 00:10:16,760 --> 00:10:19,760 Speaker 2: it really, it really did remind me of the way 176 00:10:19,800 --> 00:10:23,440 Speaker 2: that sometimes before service I walk out to the car 177 00:10:23,520 --> 00:10:26,079 Speaker 2: park and then I walk in, you know, just just 178 00:10:26,120 --> 00:10:30,000 Speaker 2: to look at the restaurant and just walk through that space, 179 00:10:30,160 --> 00:10:30,480 Speaker 2: you know. 180 00:10:30,720 --> 00:10:36,319 Speaker 3: I think that's that's really important, the idea of space. 181 00:10:37,880 --> 00:10:43,760 Speaker 3: A space is crucial in film. So if you try 182 00:10:43,800 --> 00:10:48,959 Speaker 3: to make a food movie and you just show beautiful 183 00:10:49,240 --> 00:10:54,040 Speaker 3: shots of food, it's of no consequence if you show 184 00:10:55,559 --> 00:10:57,400 Speaker 3: the thing that makes is we actually look at the 185 00:10:57,400 --> 00:11:00,959 Speaker 3: food in Big Night, it doesn't look very good. What 186 00:11:01,080 --> 00:11:04,520 Speaker 3: makes it work is the people's reaction to the food, 187 00:11:05,640 --> 00:11:10,000 Speaker 3: and then the fact that we're seeing them in that space, 188 00:11:10,800 --> 00:11:13,240 Speaker 3: so you know you were married to an architect. 189 00:11:13,760 --> 00:11:14,679 Speaker 4: Space is everything. 190 00:11:14,920 --> 00:11:17,960 Speaker 3: It's one of the reasons your restaurant works so beautifully, 191 00:11:18,160 --> 00:11:24,200 Speaker 3: because the space envelops you but also opens you up. 192 00:11:32,320 --> 00:11:32,760 Speaker 5: I'm George. 193 00:11:32,760 --> 00:11:34,000 Speaker 4: I'm a chef at the River Cafe. 194 00:11:34,720 --> 00:11:37,440 Speaker 5: It's a pleasure to meet you, Stanley. Your show is 195 00:11:37,480 --> 00:11:41,880 Speaker 5: amazing and I've watched it fully twice. We're very lucky 196 00:11:41,880 --> 00:11:43,640 Speaker 5: to be able to cook for some amazing people in 197 00:11:43,640 --> 00:11:47,959 Speaker 5: this restaurant, and we get tickets come through with people's names. 198 00:11:48,400 --> 00:11:52,160 Speaker 5: But probably the most exciting time a ticket came through 199 00:11:52,240 --> 00:11:54,400 Speaker 5: with your name on it was when I had to 200 00:11:54,400 --> 00:11:58,120 Speaker 5: make you a artichoke. Judea and I had literally the 201 00:11:58,200 --> 00:12:01,800 Speaker 5: night before watched the episode in which you make them. 202 00:12:01,800 --> 00:12:03,360 Speaker 4: The real episode, the right episode. 203 00:12:03,440 --> 00:12:06,160 Speaker 5: Yeah, and so I fell under a huge amount of pressure. 204 00:12:06,880 --> 00:12:10,760 Speaker 5: So I actually got our head chef, Danny over and 205 00:12:10,760 --> 00:12:12,719 Speaker 5: and made him do it with me from beginning to end. 206 00:12:12,960 --> 00:12:16,360 Speaker 4: Really. Yeah, absolutely, But I had those that wasn't that 207 00:12:16,480 --> 00:12:19,440 Speaker 4: long ago, No, it was recently, right, Yeah, I just 208 00:12:19,520 --> 00:12:20,120 Speaker 4: had them here. 209 00:12:20,440 --> 00:12:22,360 Speaker 5: Yeah, it was maybe maybe a month or so ago. 210 00:12:22,520 --> 00:12:25,040 Speaker 4: It was delicious. Oh, thank you, No, it was great. 211 00:12:25,559 --> 00:12:27,800 Speaker 4: I'm glad you liked the show. That's really that's great. 212 00:12:28,280 --> 00:12:30,280 Speaker 3: You know, obviously you know what you're doing, and the 213 00:12:30,360 --> 00:12:32,600 Speaker 3: fact that you like the show, that you appreciated, that's 214 00:12:32,679 --> 00:12:33,360 Speaker 3: that's wonderful. 215 00:12:33,640 --> 00:12:34,880 Speaker 2: Tell me about the series. 216 00:12:34,920 --> 00:12:39,640 Speaker 3: What an idea that I had for a long time. 217 00:12:39,760 --> 00:12:44,360 Speaker 3: I think it's probably about thirteen fifteen years ago that 218 00:12:44,440 --> 00:12:48,600 Speaker 3: I had this idea and that you'd go through every 219 00:12:48,640 --> 00:12:52,400 Speaker 3: region and you'd break down that region through the food, 220 00:12:53,320 --> 00:12:58,839 Speaker 3: but relate it to or how how does the food 221 00:12:58,880 --> 00:13:03,960 Speaker 3: relate to politics, to socioeconomics, to topography, to history, to 222 00:13:04,240 --> 00:13:08,360 Speaker 3: art to whatever. And I kept thinking. I wrote some 223 00:13:08,440 --> 00:13:12,679 Speaker 3: notes about it, and then CNN came to me and 224 00:13:12,720 --> 00:13:15,319 Speaker 3: they said, do you have any ideas for a show? 225 00:13:15,880 --> 00:13:19,679 Speaker 3: I gave them three ideas. One was about refugees and 226 00:13:19,760 --> 00:13:24,120 Speaker 3: food and there sort of one like I don't think so. 227 00:13:25,040 --> 00:13:30,280 Speaker 3: And then one was documented about cancer because my wife died, 228 00:13:30,360 --> 00:13:32,600 Speaker 3: my first wife died of cancer. I had just gone 229 00:13:32,600 --> 00:13:34,800 Speaker 3: through cancer treatments. I had so many friends who you know, 230 00:13:36,320 --> 00:13:39,560 Speaker 3: and we know it's basically, you know, an epidemic, you know. 231 00:13:40,040 --> 00:13:43,520 Speaker 3: So those two ideas they didn't care for. And then 232 00:13:43,559 --> 00:13:45,360 Speaker 3: I said, well, I have this idea about Italy and 233 00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:48,040 Speaker 3: you know, going through every region and breaking it down 234 00:13:48,080 --> 00:13:52,920 Speaker 3: as I said, and they went, okay, okay, no one 235 00:13:52,960 --> 00:13:56,600 Speaker 3: had really done it before that we didn't know. I 236 00:13:56,600 --> 00:13:58,640 Speaker 3: think that a lot of people don't know. I think 237 00:13:58,679 --> 00:14:02,120 Speaker 3: a lot of Americans don't know. Italy isn't just pizza 238 00:14:02,160 --> 00:14:05,600 Speaker 3: and pasta, and it isn't sunny all the time, and 239 00:14:05,640 --> 00:14:08,520 Speaker 3: not everybody's happy and hugging each other all the time, 240 00:14:08,640 --> 00:14:14,040 Speaker 3: and not everyone's a mafioso. There are these two sort 241 00:14:14,080 --> 00:14:18,920 Speaker 3: of polarities that Americans see, and I wanted to hope, 242 00:14:19,040 --> 00:14:21,840 Speaker 3: I hope to She did dispel those. 243 00:14:21,960 --> 00:14:28,280 Speaker 2: And also inform us about the region, the serious regionality. 244 00:14:28,400 --> 00:14:30,080 Speaker 2: I mean, I do think probably in the north of 245 00:14:30,080 --> 00:14:32,640 Speaker 2: France very differently than you read in Provence, and that 246 00:14:33,200 --> 00:14:36,280 Speaker 2: in Greece probably on heedraw you would eat differently than 247 00:14:36,320 --> 00:14:40,680 Speaker 2: in Athen's. But in Italy it's very very regional, fiercely so. 248 00:14:40,800 --> 00:14:42,520 Speaker 2: And as I think, I told you the other day 249 00:14:42,520 --> 00:14:45,200 Speaker 2: that we had met somebody who'd never had tomato sauce 250 00:14:45,280 --> 00:14:46,800 Speaker 2: until she was fourteen, that's. 251 00:14:46,680 --> 00:14:49,280 Speaker 4: Right, and she lived non Italy. 252 00:14:50,320 --> 00:14:52,160 Speaker 2: So the image and I think that's what you've done, 253 00:14:52,400 --> 00:14:54,840 Speaker 2: you know what is your next? 254 00:14:54,920 --> 00:14:59,680 Speaker 3: We're going next to Pulia and Calabria, and my parents 255 00:14:59,720 --> 00:15:01,440 Speaker 3: are going to come with me to Columbia. 256 00:15:01,720 --> 00:15:02,240 Speaker 2: In the film. 257 00:15:02,360 --> 00:15:04,640 Speaker 4: Yeah good, yeah, yeah. 258 00:15:04,000 --> 00:15:10,360 Speaker 3: And then we do Liguria and Sardinia, and then we 259 00:15:10,560 --> 00:15:15,320 Speaker 3: do a feast where everyone comes together, so all the chefs, 260 00:15:15,800 --> 00:15:18,680 Speaker 3: not all the chefs. We take a person from each region. 261 00:15:18,920 --> 00:15:20,040 Speaker 2: So how many would that be. 262 00:15:20,520 --> 00:15:21,040 Speaker 4: It'll be a. 263 00:15:21,000 --> 00:15:25,840 Speaker 3: Total of about Well, we'll have done thirteen regions. We're 264 00:15:25,840 --> 00:15:29,200 Speaker 3: not doing all twenty regions. You can't do all twenty regions, 265 00:15:29,760 --> 00:15:32,320 Speaker 3: but we're doing thirteen, so we'll have thirteen different chefs 266 00:15:32,440 --> 00:15:39,360 Speaker 3: or cooks come or a Vintnor, two ventnors. So it'll 267 00:15:39,400 --> 00:15:42,920 Speaker 3: be some sort of place that has a substantial kitchen, 268 00:15:43,720 --> 00:15:47,040 Speaker 3: lots of outdoor space. I want to have or build 269 00:15:47,320 --> 00:15:53,240 Speaker 3: three different outdoor fires, so somebody can do a goat 270 00:15:53,440 --> 00:15:56,960 Speaker 3: or whatever on a spit, somebody can grill something, and 271 00:15:57,000 --> 00:16:00,400 Speaker 3: somebody can bake something in a wood fire oven, and 272 00:16:00,440 --> 00:16:04,440 Speaker 3: then a proper restaurant kitchen, and it'll all be at 273 00:16:04,560 --> 00:16:08,960 Speaker 3: one long table and everyone they'll all cook for each other. 274 00:16:09,000 --> 00:16:12,880 Speaker 3: They each have a course and they'll cook each each 275 00:16:13,160 --> 00:16:16,640 Speaker 3: course in essence, so you know, you know, we might 276 00:16:16,720 --> 00:16:20,440 Speaker 3: actually do We're going to do probably four different kinds 277 00:16:20,480 --> 00:16:23,960 Speaker 3: of pasta and you the guests can choose what they 278 00:16:24,000 --> 00:16:26,640 Speaker 3: want if there if they want to have all four 279 00:16:26,640 --> 00:16:30,000 Speaker 3: of the guests, you know, the guests, they are the guests, 280 00:16:30,200 --> 00:16:33,560 Speaker 3: I see, So they cook for each other. But there 281 00:16:33,560 --> 00:16:35,680 Speaker 3: are a few other people that were taking from the 282 00:16:35,720 --> 00:16:38,840 Speaker 3: shows as well, who were who were contributors. 283 00:16:38,960 --> 00:16:40,400 Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah. 284 00:16:40,440 --> 00:16:44,480 Speaker 3: So the idea is that you unite Italy at the table, 285 00:16:44,920 --> 00:16:48,480 Speaker 3: because the whole thing is called searching for Italy. But really, 286 00:16:48,560 --> 00:16:52,600 Speaker 3: in the end, what I realized was that Italy doesn't exist. 287 00:16:53,560 --> 00:17:00,280 Speaker 3: It only exists at the table. That's where Italy is. 288 00:17:02,760 --> 00:17:07,080 Speaker 2: Have you done kind of deals in a restaurant? Michael 289 00:17:07,160 --> 00:17:09,560 Speaker 2: Caine said that in the old days, you would never 290 00:17:10,040 --> 00:17:12,440 Speaker 2: sign up for a movie unless it was in a restaurant. 291 00:17:12,480 --> 00:17:13,920 Speaker 2: I don't know if that exists anymore. 292 00:17:13,920 --> 00:17:17,679 Speaker 3: I have had that happen, But no, I think that 293 00:17:17,760 --> 00:17:20,800 Speaker 3: might be a more British thing than an American thing. 294 00:17:20,960 --> 00:17:22,520 Speaker 2: Oh here what he was saying, it was Hollywood, it 295 00:17:22,560 --> 00:17:25,000 Speaker 2: was old time home. Oh really, was there a restaurant 296 00:17:25,040 --> 00:17:27,720 Speaker 2: called Chasen's or something? Oh, you would go to and 297 00:17:27,800 --> 00:17:30,640 Speaker 2: you know, but then I asked younger people. They said, no, no, 298 00:17:30,680 --> 00:17:32,600 Speaker 2: it's not like to do it on zoom. 299 00:17:33,200 --> 00:17:35,440 Speaker 3: I do remember going to Hollywood though the first time, 300 00:17:35,960 --> 00:17:39,200 Speaker 3: you know, it was thirty four, you know, thirty six 301 00:17:39,280 --> 00:17:39,840 Speaker 3: years ago, and. 302 00:17:41,280 --> 00:17:42,560 Speaker 4: I hated it right away. 303 00:17:43,880 --> 00:17:46,200 Speaker 3: But everyone was going out to lunch all the time, 304 00:17:47,640 --> 00:17:50,800 Speaker 3: but they weren't really eating or drinking. The whole thing 305 00:17:50,920 --> 00:17:53,480 Speaker 3: was weird to me. I was like, well, why are 306 00:17:53,560 --> 00:17:55,520 Speaker 3: we at lunch? That's the point Richard. 307 00:17:55,600 --> 00:17:58,240 Speaker 2: Once but we were taken by an architect, Philip Johnson 308 00:17:58,280 --> 00:18:00,800 Speaker 2: to the Four Seasons in New York, and we walked 309 00:18:00,840 --> 00:18:02,919 Speaker 2: in and we thought, wow, you saw you know, the 310 00:18:03,160 --> 00:18:07,119 Speaker 2: great people of leaders of society and profession, and everybody 311 00:18:07,240 --> 00:18:10,600 Speaker 2: was having cottage. She's a nice tea. It was iced tea, 312 00:18:10,640 --> 00:18:12,560 Speaker 2: and Richard ordered a glass of wine and they really 313 00:18:12,600 --> 00:18:15,920 Speaker 2: thought he was an alcoholic. Yeah, it was just not done' 314 00:18:16,160 --> 00:18:16,600 Speaker 2: la too. 315 00:18:16,640 --> 00:18:20,040 Speaker 3: Also la people are driving too. Maybe not so much 316 00:18:20,040 --> 00:18:23,560 Speaker 3: anymore with uber and all that, but but yeah, it 317 00:18:23,760 --> 00:18:27,040 Speaker 3: just wasn't and it was. I found it just incredibly cold, 318 00:18:27,200 --> 00:18:32,200 Speaker 3: and although there are some amazing restaurants, but it wasn't 319 00:18:32,920 --> 00:18:34,720 Speaker 3: just not It's. 320 00:18:34,119 --> 00:18:37,240 Speaker 2: Also quite revealing how person behaves in a restaurant. I 321 00:18:37,280 --> 00:18:39,600 Speaker 2: always used to say in the early days of having 322 00:18:39,640 --> 00:18:43,440 Speaker 2: a restaurant that you could tell a lot of Americans 323 00:18:44,000 --> 00:18:46,600 Speaker 2: in the River Cafe had at one time in their 324 00:18:46,640 --> 00:18:50,160 Speaker 2: life worked in a restaurant because they were nice. They 325 00:18:50,160 --> 00:18:53,280 Speaker 2: were just they They are not saying the British weren't nice. 326 00:18:53,320 --> 00:18:55,280 Speaker 2: But having worked in a restaurant, it does make you 327 00:18:55,359 --> 00:18:56,879 Speaker 2: more tolerant, don't you think you know. 328 00:18:57,080 --> 00:18:59,440 Speaker 3: Without question what it's like. Yeah, you have to know 329 00:18:59,560 --> 00:19:03,560 Speaker 3: how hard that is. Yeah, I think particularly in America too, 330 00:19:03,640 --> 00:19:07,199 Speaker 3: because the pay is so bad and you're relying on 331 00:19:07,240 --> 00:19:11,040 Speaker 3: your tips and it's really really hard work. Having worked 332 00:19:11,040 --> 00:19:14,680 Speaker 3: as a bus boy and a bartender, and you know. 333 00:19:16,560 --> 00:19:22,520 Speaker 2: We think about food and hunger, and it's also mental health, 334 00:19:22,560 --> 00:19:28,080 Speaker 2: and it's also physical health. And we in times of pain, 335 00:19:28,240 --> 00:19:32,520 Speaker 2: we in times of discomfort. And you refer just now 336 00:19:32,600 --> 00:19:34,360 Speaker 2: to the fact that you had cancer and that your 337 00:19:34,359 --> 00:19:39,440 Speaker 2: wife died of cancer. How did you see illness and 338 00:19:39,520 --> 00:19:44,800 Speaker 2: how did illness affect your attitude or your food for you? 339 00:19:45,680 --> 00:19:49,040 Speaker 3: But I think when anybody's sick, even if it's just 340 00:19:49,080 --> 00:19:52,679 Speaker 3: a cold or flu, you instantly say, do let me 341 00:19:52,720 --> 00:19:56,399 Speaker 3: make atriction soup. Right, it's the first thing you know 342 00:19:57,200 --> 00:20:00,199 Speaker 3: you do or I'll always say do you do you 343 00:20:00,240 --> 00:20:02,600 Speaker 3: want this? Are you feeling hungry? Are you feeling why 344 00:20:02,600 --> 00:20:06,639 Speaker 3: does your stomach urt? Do you want this? And sometimes 345 00:20:06,040 --> 00:20:10,520 Speaker 3: it's a test too if they go the kid in particular. 346 00:20:10,200 --> 00:20:13,000 Speaker 4: Would go no, I don't. I don't want that. 347 00:20:13,040 --> 00:20:15,919 Speaker 3: I don't And then you know something's really wrong. You know, 348 00:20:16,160 --> 00:20:18,399 Speaker 3: you go, would you like a chocolate? You know, they go, no, 349 00:20:18,440 --> 00:20:20,359 Speaker 3: I don't want a chocolate. You go, okay, let's go 350 00:20:20,400 --> 00:20:23,639 Speaker 3: to the doctor. Or so you know, but I think 351 00:20:24,520 --> 00:20:29,920 Speaker 3: it was you know, in the end, well, Kate went 352 00:20:29,960 --> 00:20:33,720 Speaker 3: through so many different treatments, and you know, going through 353 00:20:33,800 --> 00:20:36,520 Speaker 3: chemo and radiation and all that stuff made her very 354 00:20:36,600 --> 00:20:39,600 Speaker 3: nauseous and she couldn't eat a lot at times, and 355 00:20:39,640 --> 00:20:42,679 Speaker 3: then she would recover and then cancer would present itself 356 00:20:42,720 --> 00:20:45,120 Speaker 3: again and then she'd go through the process again. 357 00:20:45,200 --> 00:20:46,320 Speaker 4: It was horrible. 358 00:20:47,800 --> 00:20:50,720 Speaker 3: When I went through mine because it was an oral cancer. 359 00:20:51,440 --> 00:20:54,399 Speaker 3: All the treatment was focused on my mouth, so I 360 00:20:54,440 --> 00:20:58,639 Speaker 3: lost everything. You don't only lose your sense of taste. 361 00:20:58,280 --> 00:21:04,359 Speaker 3: Your sense taste is destroyed and perverted so that everything 362 00:21:04,560 --> 00:21:10,400 Speaker 3: tastes like you know what for months and plus your 363 00:21:10,560 --> 00:21:13,960 Speaker 3: mouth is so compromised and so much pain. You're on 364 00:21:14,119 --> 00:21:17,359 Speaker 3: pain medications and all that stuff, and you have a 365 00:21:17,400 --> 00:21:22,239 Speaker 3: feeding tube. You're trying to put protein drinks through your 366 00:21:22,240 --> 00:21:25,880 Speaker 3: feeding tube, which are disgusting and not that you're tasting them, 367 00:21:25,880 --> 00:21:29,360 Speaker 3: but they're upsetting your stomach. And then there's morphine you're 368 00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:32,600 Speaker 3: putting through. It's just a it's a nightmare. And for me, 369 00:21:32,640 --> 00:21:36,000 Speaker 3: it was a real nightmare because food is everything to me. 370 00:21:36,320 --> 00:21:40,159 Speaker 3: It's now how most of my life. And not to 371 00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:43,080 Speaker 3: be able to eat properly, not to be able to 372 00:21:43,400 --> 00:21:48,040 Speaker 3: everything smelled horrible, tasted horrible, and not to be able 373 00:21:48,040 --> 00:21:49,840 Speaker 3: to sit and eat with my friends and drink with 374 00:21:49,880 --> 00:21:52,800 Speaker 3: my friends and cook for my family, it was really 375 00:21:52,800 --> 00:21:53,439 Speaker 3: really hard. 376 00:21:53,640 --> 00:21:56,560 Speaker 2: And did that come back? Obviously came back, But how 377 00:21:56,720 --> 00:21:59,360 Speaker 2: did it just come back and you embraced. 378 00:21:58,920 --> 00:22:00,840 Speaker 4: It or was it slow? It's very slow. 379 00:22:01,119 --> 00:22:07,000 Speaker 3: It's still not I'm almost four years out from finishing 380 00:22:07,040 --> 00:22:11,040 Speaker 3: my treatments and I still Last night I made lamb chops. 381 00:22:11,080 --> 00:22:12,080 Speaker 4: I didn't really eat them. 382 00:22:12,359 --> 00:22:15,919 Speaker 3: I can't really because you lose your saliva, so I 383 00:22:15,960 --> 00:22:18,920 Speaker 3: don't have all of my saliva. So if you don't 384 00:22:18,920 --> 00:22:22,760 Speaker 3: have your saliva, it's very hard to break things down. 385 00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:26,920 Speaker 3: So I eat a lot of pasta. But that's fine. 386 00:22:27,080 --> 00:22:30,440 Speaker 3: You know, I can eat it, just depends. You definitely 387 00:22:30,440 --> 00:22:35,120 Speaker 3: cannot eat spice, even that pepper today on that well, 388 00:22:35,160 --> 00:22:38,200 Speaker 3: it was delicious if it were a normal person. But 389 00:22:38,880 --> 00:22:42,639 Speaker 3: because my mouth is so hyper sensitive that you know, 390 00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:45,360 Speaker 3: I ate it very you have to eat it very slowly, 391 00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:48,080 Speaker 3: and you're sort of drinking lots of water with it 392 00:22:48,119 --> 00:22:49,160 Speaker 3: and all that sort of stuff. 393 00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:51,320 Speaker 4: But that's just the way it is. 394 00:22:51,440 --> 00:22:53,480 Speaker 3: I'm probably at the point now where this is about 395 00:22:53,680 --> 00:22:55,560 Speaker 3: where I'm going to be. I don't know how much 396 00:22:57,520 --> 00:23:00,920 Speaker 3: more I will recover, but it's fine. I can eat 397 00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:05,399 Speaker 3: most things. I can drink wine, I can have a 398 00:23:05,480 --> 00:23:06,760 Speaker 3: martini slowly. 399 00:23:07,440 --> 00:23:09,920 Speaker 4: It's fine. Nicroni Negroni's yet. 400 00:23:10,160 --> 00:23:12,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, you know about the nigroni. 401 00:23:12,920 --> 00:23:14,639 Speaker 4: It's my love of food. 402 00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:18,199 Speaker 3: My desire to know more about it has just grown. 403 00:23:19,040 --> 00:23:22,200 Speaker 3: So it's sort of all I think about, and it's 404 00:23:22,400 --> 00:23:24,919 Speaker 3: very much how I spend my time now. And you know, 405 00:23:24,960 --> 00:23:27,199 Speaker 3: I had people over last night and I fell asleep 406 00:23:27,640 --> 00:23:30,960 Speaker 3: with terrible anxiety because I wasn't happy with the meal 407 00:23:31,040 --> 00:23:33,800 Speaker 3: I cooked, and they said it was good. 408 00:23:35,320 --> 00:23:36,800 Speaker 4: Do I believe them? I don't know. 409 00:23:37,520 --> 00:23:40,960 Speaker 3: And also not just the meal, but also the fact 410 00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:43,600 Speaker 3: that I kept getting up and sort of trying to 411 00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:46,159 Speaker 3: time things and whereas I should have just made a stew, 412 00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:50,760 Speaker 3: served it with polenta and sat down and that's the 413 00:23:50,840 --> 00:23:51,199 Speaker 3: end of that. 414 00:23:51,400 --> 00:23:52,200 Speaker 4: Yeah. 415 00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:55,760 Speaker 2: I had a cousin who came from Italy, apparently young 416 00:23:55,920 --> 00:23:58,399 Speaker 2: kid who came and he stayed with some friends. And 417 00:23:58,440 --> 00:24:00,920 Speaker 2: when they were told that, he asked what they're having 418 00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:03,760 Speaker 2: for lunch and they didn't include pasta. 419 00:24:04,080 --> 00:24:05,440 Speaker 4: He cried. 420 00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:08,280 Speaker 2: It was about twelve and just cried because for him, 421 00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:11,240 Speaker 2: pasta was just, you know, so important. I don't know 422 00:24:11,280 --> 00:24:17,960 Speaker 2: what the British sure, you know the equivalente sausages and yeah, sausages. 423 00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:24,720 Speaker 4: Sausages British. Yeah, they have sausages. Oh my god. Please, 424 00:24:25,200 --> 00:24:27,960 Speaker 4: it's it's like we're I feel like I'm Fagan. 425 00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:32,760 Speaker 3: Yeah, just you know, you know, doling out sausages all 426 00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:33,160 Speaker 3: the time. 427 00:24:34,040 --> 00:24:34,280 Speaker 4: Yeah. 428 00:24:34,359 --> 00:24:37,560 Speaker 2: I think that if food can be painful, if food 429 00:24:37,640 --> 00:24:41,960 Speaker 2: can be restorative, Food is an expression of love for 430 00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:46,359 Speaker 2: our children. Food can be memory of your grandparents. It 431 00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:50,040 Speaker 2: is also what we've been saying, it's comfort. And I 432 00:24:50,040 --> 00:24:54,240 Speaker 2: suppose my last question to you, after really lovely afternoon 433 00:24:55,720 --> 00:25:00,000 Speaker 2: thank you, is to ask you what Stanley Tucci would 434 00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:01,760 Speaker 2: be your comfort. 435 00:25:03,760 --> 00:25:07,359 Speaker 3: It's probably something that you love as well, which is 436 00:25:08,320 --> 00:25:13,200 Speaker 3: pastave with tomato, pasta with a really simple tomato sauce 437 00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:16,760 Speaker 3: and a little pam gano, and that's it. 438 00:25:16,760 --> 00:25:19,720 Speaker 4: It makes me so comforted. 439 00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:23,320 Speaker 2: It's definitely mine. So let's have it together, whether we 440 00:25:23,359 --> 00:25:27,240 Speaker 2: need comfort or not. Thank you, Sam, thank you, thank 441 00:25:27,280 --> 00:25:27,800 Speaker 2: you so much. 442 00:25:27,880 --> 00:25:30,520 Speaker 4: Thank you. 443 00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:35,879 Speaker 2: To visit the online shop of The River Cafe, go 444 00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:39,360 Speaker 2: to shop the Rivercafe dot co dot uk. 445 00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:49,640 Speaker 1: River Cafe Table four is a production of iHeart Radio 446 00:25:49,720 --> 00:25:53,919 Speaker 1: and Adamized Studios. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the 447 00:25:53,960 --> 00:25:57,439 Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your 448 00:25:57,480 --> 00:25:58,159 Speaker 1: favorite shows.