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Speaker 1: It's time to refresh your yard. During Spring Backyard Days

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Speaker 1: at the Home Depot. Get low prices guaranteed on propane

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Speaker 1: dring lights that bring it all together. Shop Spring Backyard

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Speaker 1: Days for seven days at the Home Depot now through

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Speaker 1: May sixth. Exclusions Aplasi homebo dot Com slash price match

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Speaker 1: for details.

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Speaker 2: It's very difficult to keep the line between the past

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Speaker 2: and the price.

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Speaker 3: Leave someone out of the past, we can enter and

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Speaker 3: take possession of a living being.

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Speaker 4: We may be through with the past, but the past

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Speaker 4: is not through with us.

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Speaker 5: Welcome to the Next Picture Show, a movie of the

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Speaker 5: Week podcast devoted to a classic film and how it

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Speaker 5: shaped our thoughts on a recent release. I'm Tosha Robinson here.

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Speaker 4: With Scott Tobias and Keith Pips.

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Speaker 5: Genevievkowski is absent from this pairing in this timeline, but

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Speaker 5: in many other timelines. She did join us for this episode,

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Speaker 5: so if you want to hear what she thought about

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Speaker 5: this pairing, Just loop back aways in your own personal

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Speaker 5: time and make different choices until a different version of

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Speaker 5: this podcast appears. For our latest pairing, we're looking at

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Speaker 5: two films that navigate branching timelines and roads taken and

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Speaker 5: not taken in very different ways and with very different

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Speaker 5: messages about fate, self determination, and the invisible forces that

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Speaker 5: might shape our lives as much as the choices that

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Speaker 5: we clearly see in front of us. Keith, you want

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Speaker 5: to lay out the two branches in front of us.

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Speaker 6: This week was starting with Christov Kislowski's Blind Chance, a

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Speaker 6: nineteen eighty seven precursor to our recent next Picture show

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Speaker 6: pick Run the Low Run. Like Tom Tikverer's movie, Kislowski

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Speaker 6: structures Blind chants around a life that plays out in

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Speaker 6: three different ways, with a young Polish man radically changing

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Speaker 6: as politics and his life depending on the different ways

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Speaker 6: of specific event unfolds. The film asks some big questions

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Speaker 6: about how much chance determines what we care about, who

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Speaker 6: we love, and what we will come, but it also

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Speaker 6: also asks them by playing out the nineteen eighties version

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Speaker 6: of a multiverse story. Next week we'll take out Daniel

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Speaker 6: Kwan and Daniel Shiner's Everything Everywhere, All at Once, a

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Speaker 6: much more twenty twenties version of the multiverse story starring

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Speaker 6: Michelle Yeo as a Harry laundromat owner who gets a

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Speaker 6: glimpse of all the other directions your life might have taken,

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Speaker 6: and more or less uses those universes to activate immense

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Speaker 6: fighting skills that come in handy as a sieving evil

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Speaker 6: tries to wipe out every multiverse that's ever existed.

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Speaker 5: We hope you'll choose to stay with us as we

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Speaker 5: navigate these two films. If you make the choice to

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Speaker 5: turn off this podcast and walk away, we really have

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Speaker 5: no idea who you'll end up being in the future,

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Speaker 5: but the results could be disastrous.

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Speaker 2: So you go visilz Medo.

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Speaker 3: Hello, Dick talk be Dick, Sam jobievil it's hie.

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Speaker 7: Yas should study test, declaras party.

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Speaker 8: Fun.

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Speaker 4: That's not regard shift above you play.

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Speaker 9: It's a new one, touts off page second shift Peter

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Speaker 9: Paris kishist, that's what.

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Speaker 2: The room or the huish Kinship and us Peltica, She.

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Speaker 7: Says, yes and as an as little.

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Speaker 5: That watching the films of Polish director Christoph Kislowski in

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Speaker 5: order you can tell yourself a pretty clear story about

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Speaker 5: the evolving artistic ambitions of a man who fell into

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Speaker 5: film a little accidentally in his student days, and the

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Speaker 5: evolving politically ambitions of an artist whose early experiences with

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Speaker 5: censorship and authoritarian government heavily shaped the kinds of stories

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Speaker 5: and characters that interested him. His early documentaries from his

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Speaker 5: nineteen sixties days as a film school student focused on

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Speaker 5: ordinary people, on observing their interactions and listening to them

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Speaker 5: talk about their lives. But once he started focusing on

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Speaker 5: the worker's protesting against food shortages and violent repression from

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Speaker 5: the communist government in his documentary Workers seventy one, he

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Speaker 5: found himself in conflict with that government, which censored the

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Speaker 5: resulting film. Shortly after that, he began to experiment with

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Speaker 5: fictional narratives, but still with an interest in the worker's complaints,

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Speaker 5: the friction and resistance he saw around him, and a

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Speaker 5: social realist approach to telling Polish stories as he did

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Speaker 5: during his documentary days. As Kilslowski's career progressed, he became

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Speaker 5: more and more ambitious, experimental, and philosophical with his films

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Speaker 5: The Double Life of Veronique His nineteen ninety one masterpiece,

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Speaker 5: starring Arne Jacob in a dual role as a Polish

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Speaker 5: woman and a frenchwoman who appeared to be mirror images

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Speaker 5: of each other, possibly sharing the same soul, is one

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Speaker 5: of his most ambitious and memorable single projects, but for

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Speaker 5: much of his life he produced stories that ranged from

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Speaker 5: practical presentation to similarly dreamy, impressionistic, high concept storytelling, often

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Speaker 5: in ways that stretched across several movies. His ten film

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Speaker 5: series The Decalogue, each of which explores one of the

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Speaker 5: Biblical ten commandments in a story about Polish life, is

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Speaker 5: the most sprawling example. Internationally, he's better known for his

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Speaker 5: triptych movies Blue, White, and Red, which each take radically

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Speaker 5: different emotional approaches to stories inspired by the colors of

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Speaker 5: the French flag and the ideals of the French motto liberty, fraternity, equality.

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Speaker 5: His film Blind Chance, completed in nineteen eighty one and

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Speaker 5: repressed by the Polish government before being released in censored

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Speaker 5: form in nineteen eighty seven, reads like a Rosetta stone,

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Speaker 5: pulling together all of these threads of his career into

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Speaker 5: one place, Like Workers seventy one and his documentary companion

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Speaker 5: piece curriculum vita about the workings of local government. Blind

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Speaker 5: Chance is a story about the government versus the people

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Speaker 5: and the hostility and must trust on both sides. Like

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Speaker 5: his earliest fictional work, it's partially a social real life piece,

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Speaker 5: a grave and often quiet drama about the ins and

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Speaker 5: outs of party politics, protest politics, religion and belief, and

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Speaker 5: everyday life. Like his later projects, it's a set of

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Speaker 5: interrelated stories. As a young man, Viteg Gulash passes through

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Speaker 5: three different versions of his life, each of which comes

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Speaker 5: out radically differently based on the influences that form him.

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Speaker 5: In all three versions, Viteg has the same childhood and

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Speaker 5: the same intention of becoming a doctor, but the death

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Speaker 5: of his demanding father unmoors him and he drops out

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Speaker 5: of medical school. Running for a trained warsaw, he either

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Speaker 5: catches it or misses it, and in the process he

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Speaker 5: encounters different people in circumstances who shape what comes. In

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Speaker 5: one version of his life, he joins the Communist party

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Speaker 5: and becomes a promising young local politician. In another, he

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Speaker 5: instead meets up with a resistance and an inspiring older woman,

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Speaker 5: and he becomes religious and involved with the solidarity movement.

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Speaker 5: In the third, he avoids politics and lives a more

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Speaker 5: sheltered and self contained family life outside of any of

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Speaker 5: these larger movements. In each of these lives, though, the

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Speaker 5: question of chance comes up, as when the American remakes

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Speaker 5: Sliding Doors or the film's German offspring Run Lola Run.

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Speaker 5: Some of what shapes VTech is coincidence, dependent on what

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Speaker 5: other people do and how small things differ from one

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Speaker 5: world to the next. His choices matter, Kilzowski suggests, but

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Speaker 5: not perhaps as much as he might like them to matter.

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Speaker 5: Their similarities in all three of these paths, but surprisingly

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Speaker 5: v Teg's own personality might not be the primary thread

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Speaker 5: uniting them. It's not that he's biddable and willing to

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Speaker 5: go along with whatever's in front of them exactly, but

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Speaker 5: this branch in his life comes at a time when

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Speaker 5: he's obviously vulnerable in at Sea, looking for a new

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Speaker 5: father figure to replace his own lost father, and willing

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Speaker 5: to take in whatever the universe offers him, or perhaps

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Speaker 5: whatever the multiverse offers him. Blind Chance is as much

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Speaker 5: a religious and philosophical exploration as a narrative one. It

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Speaker 5: invites viewers to consider how different would our lives have

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Speaker 5: been if one thing had come out differently, maybe not

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Speaker 5: even something that seemed like a radical branch point when

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Speaker 5: it happened.

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Speaker 4: The parting of.

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Speaker 5: Ways in this story isn't about whether v Teg chooses

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Speaker 5: to rush home to his father in the hospital and

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Speaker 5: see him before he dies, or whether he chooses to

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Speaker 5: leave medical school afterward. It's about whether he catches a

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Speaker 5: given train and the interactions he has immediately before and

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Speaker 5: after that moment. It's as though every moment we live

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Speaker 5: through offers us choices, Kilzlowsky suggests, but every moment also

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Speaker 5: makes choices for us. Sussing out which of those is

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Speaker 5: which which is important is a major question, So is

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Speaker 5: deciding who we are through any of the possible chances

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Speaker 5: and choices and changes we face. Blind chance may not

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Speaker 5: have the answers, but it invites us to choose to

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Speaker 5: seriously ask the questions and accept everything that might follow

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Speaker 5: from that choice.

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Speaker 2: Chievejin Peters are taking nam le me too, Yeah, Tom,

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Speaker 2: can you manits in sead?

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Speaker 5: And they know.

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Speaker 2: One sneak onst me in that.

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Speaker 4: Does not to.

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Speaker 8: Mee.

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Speaker 5: Okay, guys, we have to start with the opening shot.

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Speaker 5: I had not seen this film before.

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Speaker 8: Now at McDonald's mcdouble is two fifty, so you can

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Speaker 8: get your gym gains on or just get lunch for

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Speaker 8: only two fifty, getting all value on the under three

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Speaker 8: dollar and let me time only.

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Speaker 6: Prices and participation may very Prices may.

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Speaker 5: Be higher for delivery. Bottom Scott recommended it as a

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Speaker 5: possible pairing for Everything, Everywhere, All at Once, and the

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Speaker 5: opening shot, which zooms into vtg's mouth as he's screaming

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Speaker 5: before you have any idea who this person is, made

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Speaker 5: me think, oh wow, is this going to be as

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Speaker 5: as radically ambitious as Everywhere, Everything All at Once? It

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Speaker 5: takes until the end of the movie before you understand

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Speaker 5: what that first shot is. But why do you think

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Speaker 5: Koslowsky chooses to start there in that moment?

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Speaker 6: I don't know I have an answer to that. But

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Speaker 6: my reaction was was I thought maybe I was watching

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Speaker 6: the wrong film, because this is my first time with

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Speaker 6: this one as well, and I love Kaselowski's later work.

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Speaker 6: But it also, you know, I had a certain expectations

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Speaker 6: of what a Kasloski film was going to do, and

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Speaker 6: I think it kind of settles into, you know, a

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Speaker 6: more more recognizable style. But but yeah, you know, I was.

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Speaker 6: I was very thrown by that. Well, I mean, in

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Speaker 6: terms of why he chooses it, I guess. I guess,

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Speaker 6: you know, it is a mystery that's not solved until

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Speaker 6: the final shot, right.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, we're kind of given some pieces, some little fractures

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Speaker 4: of his life. Images that the images of the beginning,

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Speaker 4: not just that shot, but other images of a hospital

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Speaker 4: floor streak with blood, et cetera, that do kind of

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Speaker 4: are just more suggestive, kind of throw you off balance

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Speaker 4: a little bit before kind of situating you in a

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Speaker 4: particular time and place, you know, And these are I

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Speaker 4: guess major you know, we come to learn anyway that

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Speaker 4: major moments in his life. Yeah, I guess we'll go

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Speaker 4: ahead and say a spoiler alert. I mean, in terms

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Speaker 4: of what happens to him the end of the movie.

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Speaker 4: He has reason to be upset at that moment, and

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Speaker 4: then you know, and then the hospital about I guess

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Speaker 4: that's the one of his moment of his birth, I believe.

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Speaker 4: And there's a certain amount of distress and violence that's

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Speaker 4: associated with that too. I mean, it's an interesting thing.

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Speaker 5: I understand correctly. It's a protest that happened right before

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Speaker 5: his birth, that was right down in a bloody and

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Speaker 5: violent way.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 6: And then it was a worker's revolt.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: Sure, Okay, that makes sense because because the literal hospital

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Speaker 4: floor is littally streaked like someone that someone has been

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Speaker 4: dragged across it.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, you actually see somebody drive across it.

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Speaker 8: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: And then as a result of what happened there, through

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Speaker 5: details that were not entirely given, his mother dies in childbirth,

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Speaker 5: and so does his twin brother, which suggests a whole

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Speaker 5: nother series of you know, branching possibilities for this reality

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Speaker 5: that we don't really touch on.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean I was. I was pleased that that

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Speaker 4: that it branches out from the specific place that it does, right,

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Speaker 4: because you think about what are the inflection points it's

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Speaker 4: in a person's life, what are the moments, what the

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Speaker 4: what's the age I guess in which someone is I

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Speaker 4: guess malleable enough as a person to be able to change,

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Speaker 4: to be able to go on one radically different direction

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Speaker 4: or another, And what would be the context for that,

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Speaker 4: which which I think Kislowski takes his time establishing well,

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Speaker 4: which it has to do with a relationship that we

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Speaker 4: tech has with his dad, with his time in medical school,

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Speaker 4: which is something he doesn't necessarily want to do. It's

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Speaker 4: something his father wants for him. And now with his

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Speaker 4: father gone, he has something approach, something like freedom for

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Speaker 4: his life to go in whatever direction is going to

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Speaker 4: go in. And when you're when you're in your twenties

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Speaker 4: and you're not settled down with anybody who've got you

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Speaker 4: have no anchor, You don't have a parent as an anchor.

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Speaker 4: He doesn't you know, have a girlfriend at least in

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Speaker 4: you know, the first well, in any case, he's got

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Speaker 4: nothing grounding him at that moment at the train station.

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Speaker 4: So that is the point where where all bets are off,

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Speaker 4: where all destinies are open. And I think it's kind

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Speaker 4: of a you know, a kind of great place for

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Speaker 4: the movie to start or continue, I guess, because he

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Speaker 4: does establish a little bit of the beginning.

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Speaker 5: Mostly what I end up wondering in opening with that

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Speaker 5: scream is whether whether we're meant to think he has

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Speaker 5: any kind of awareness of his other lives, the other possibilities,

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Speaker 5: Like he seems to have an awareness of what is

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Speaker 5: about to happen in the final shot of the film,

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Speaker 5: we have no idea what goes wrong with the plane

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Speaker 5: that he's on, which explodes dramatically in that particular timeline,

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Speaker 5: which seems like a very odd way to end that story,

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Speaker 5: just the fact that we don't exactly know what happened there,

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Speaker 5: but it does seem like he he has some awareness

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Speaker 5: that it's coming. He sees something or experiences something that

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Speaker 5: lets him realize he and everybody on board are about

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Speaker 5: to die. And I just I wonder if, being Kaslowski

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Speaker 5: in particular, is this does he experience some kind of

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Speaker 5: apotheosis or does he just see somebody stand up with

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Speaker 5: a bomb?

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Speaker 8: What happens?

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Speaker 6: Yeah, it's hard to tell, Like I found in terms

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Speaker 6: of sort of the film out, particularly in finding a

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Speaker 6: Polish historical context. There's a bonus feature in the Criterion

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Speaker 6: channel where the Polish from Critica, Sabuleuski, talks about it

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Speaker 6: and he speaks quite definitively, you know, I don't try,

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Speaker 6: I agree, but quite definitively as that being the true

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Speaker 6: timeline and the other two being illusions. So no matter

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Speaker 6: what this is, you know, he is he dies in

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Speaker 6: the plane, and the other possibilities were perhaps just imagined

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Speaker 6: or possibly possibly maybe even imagined in that moment of

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Speaker 6: death kind of lastentation of Christ style, which I find

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Speaker 6: kind of interesting reading of the film. I don't know

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Speaker 6: if that's necessarily the case.

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Speaker 1: So what do you guys think.

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Speaker 5: I would love to hear his rationale or evidence for that,

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Speaker 5: because to me, the interesting story here is Vtex's possibilities

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Speaker 5: and how they arise the interesting part. I don't see

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Speaker 5: this as a film to be decoded exactly in terms

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Speaker 5: of this is real and this is false anymore than

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Speaker 5: one of the women in Double Life, for Vernique is

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Speaker 5: meant to be dismissed as like the fake, fake version

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Speaker 5: of the life versus the real version of the life.

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Speaker 5: You know, it's it's the parallelism that's interesting. It's the

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Speaker 5: two stories that's interesting in those that movie, not here's

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Speaker 5: the fake one and here's the real one.

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Speaker 4: Yeah. And I don't really love the idea of him

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Speaker 4: having any real say even in imagining these other two

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Speaker 4: destinies for himself. I feel like that's something the universe

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Speaker 4: is is doing, or does to Everyone sets them on,

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Speaker 4: you know, a certain path, and and you know, you

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Speaker 4: get put around certain situations around different people, and that

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Speaker 4: can kind of, you know, take you into completely opposing

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Speaker 4: you know, paths. I mean, he's he's a communist in

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Speaker 4: one and an anti communist and you know, and a

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Speaker 4: radical anti communist radical in the other, and you know,

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Speaker 4: and he's still you know, the same guy. So how

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Speaker 4: does that how does that happen? And I think that

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Speaker 4: that's a strong observation about human nature, about our almost

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Speaker 4: situational morality. I guess our situational you know, I guess

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Speaker 4: cultural and political leanings. I mean, you're exposed to a

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Speaker 4: certain set of ideas or a certain influential person or

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Speaker 4: you know, a YouTuber or whatever, and you're and you're

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Speaker 4: taking and you're taken.

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Speaker 5: Down influence, influencer, somebody like that.

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Speaker 4: You know, But I mean it could be that way,

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Speaker 4: and it's it can be you know, we certainly know

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Speaker 4: what now is something that can be pretty scary the

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Speaker 4: way the way that you know that that can kind

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Speaker 4: of shape a young, a young mind to kind of

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Speaker 4: to kind of be led down this path, this algorithmic

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Speaker 4: path that kind of leads you, leads you leads, you know,

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Speaker 4: a perfectly normal, average person into you know, perhaps a

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Speaker 4: more radical destiny than than than you know you might expect.

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Speaker 4: And I mean, this is I don't want to you know,

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Speaker 4: you know, he's ask you wasn't making Blind Chance about

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Speaker 4: the year twenty twenty two, but your your mind does

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Speaker 4: go there in terms of just the way you certain

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Speaker 4: historical contexts can shape a person's thinking and what they

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Speaker 4: end up doing with their lives.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, I think part of what makes this movie a

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Speaker 6: little distressing is this is something we can imagine happening

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Speaker 6: to other people but not to us. And to be

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Speaker 6: put in the in the in the skin of this protagonist,

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Speaker 6: you know, very you know, staying very close to him, who,

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Speaker 6: for all you know, we see as a bright, thoughtful

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Speaker 6: person and not just sort of a two dimensional character.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it is.

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Speaker 6: It is an uncomfortable thing to sit with that, you know,

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Speaker 6: the idea that blind Chance has a huge influence on

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Speaker 6: on who we become.

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Speaker 5: Well, I didn't have much opportunity to look into like

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Speaker 5: contemporaneous response to this film, but I cannot but wonder

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Speaker 5: what whether there was as much resistance to that idea,

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Speaker 5: like with the first people that saw this movie in

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Speaker 5: the nineteen eighties, as there would be today if you

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Speaker 5: made a version of this where the same person becomes

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Speaker 5: like a hardcore died in the wall like Maga hat

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Speaker 5: wearing Republican or a hardcore like AOC loving democrat, just

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Speaker 5: sort of based on whether I catch a given bus.

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Speaker 5: Like I feel like we've become to a place of

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Speaker 5: like political partisanship where people would rebel against that idea.

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Speaker 5: But this was also a very partisan and friction heavy

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Speaker 5: time in a country's political history, and I wonder if

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Speaker 5: people at that time had the same sort of like, know,

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Speaker 5: these are the right ideals, Like how are you implying

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Speaker 5: that he could have had the opposite ideals based on

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Speaker 5: catching a train?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't know. I mean, obviously it met with

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Speaker 4: a huge amount of resistance, given that it took six

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Speaker 4: years for it to see the light of day, and

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Speaker 4: even even when it did, it did so in a

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Speaker 4: censored I think, you know, you could read every part

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Speaker 4: of the film, or at least you know every part

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Speaker 4: that's engaged in This is kind of a as an

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Speaker 4: anti communist film, it is, I would say, I would say,

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Speaker 4: I don't see I don't really see any other reading,

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Speaker 4: And I guess that would be you know, where Kislowski

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Speaker 4: got himself into trouble with the censors.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean I don't. I don't go to me

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Speaker 6: for all kinds of you know, deep detail about it,

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Speaker 6: but it was you know, you know, if you look

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Speaker 6: at the if you watch the bonus features on the

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Speaker 6: Criterion channel, you know it mixed clear that it was

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Speaker 6: made in a very small window when Solidarity kind of

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Speaker 6: opened up some possibilities and Polish culture that were then

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Speaker 6: pretty much shut down within within a year at the same.

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Speaker 5: Time, I mean, both of his political careers on both ends,

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Speaker 5: and with him disillusioned and abandoned and betrayed by the

378
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Speaker 5: people who he threw in with and believed in in

379
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Speaker 5: some ways, and he seems possibly happier and more himself

380
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Speaker 5: in the timeline where he just sets aside on all politics,

381
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Speaker 5: Like is there this may be anti communists, but I

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Speaker 5: think that there are anti solidarity messages in here as well.

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Speaker 5: I think in some ways there are almost just like

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Speaker 5: anti anti politics, anti joining messages here.

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Speaker 4: I felt like the reverse though. I just felt like

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Speaker 4: the end of the the last third is would not

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Speaker 4: be Kislowski's preferred destiny for a person like an apolitical

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Speaker 4: you know, you know, somebody who's who's not engaged in

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Speaker 4: these things. I don't know. I mean, I've always felt

390
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Speaker 4: like a film kind of leaned against that more than

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Speaker 4: you know, than for it. Yeah, I don't know.

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Speaker 6: I mean, I'm not sure, you know, I'm not sure

393
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Speaker 6: there's a single political message here. I think there is,

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Speaker 6: you know, I don't want to see that just sort

395
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Speaker 6: of both sides did zones. But but there is no

396
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Speaker 6: I don't think there's an ideal outcome anyway, and one,

397
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Speaker 6: you know, you end up disillusion and betrayed, or you

398
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Speaker 6: end up being kind of a you know, wishy, washy,

399
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Speaker 6: noncommittal person who you know makes no change.

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Speaker 4: In the world.

401
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Speaker 6: It's it's a tough it's and it's exploded and yeah, yeah,

402
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Speaker 6: while flying to Libya, which there's a history, there's probably

403
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Speaker 6: some history there, I don't I don't understand, so I

404
00:21:21,280 --> 00:21:23,480
Speaker 6: won't you know, I can't. I can't speak to that.

405
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Speaker 6: But it doesn't seem like an accidental choice of destination either.

406
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Speaker 5: Well, there's something I very much wanted to get into

407
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Speaker 5: with this movie. I watched this movie over the course

408
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Speaker 5: of many hours because I kept stopping to look things up.

409
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Speaker 5: I know, Scott, in particular, this is not your actually,

410
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Speaker 5: both of you, this is not your preferred way to

411
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Speaker 5: watch a movie. But I kept having questions, like like

412
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Speaker 5: big political questions about what this or that was meant

413
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Speaker 5: to me or signify, And there was just so much

414
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Speaker 5: of the movie that I felt like I would not

415
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Speaker 5: be able to parse if I didn't know more about

416
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Speaker 5: not only the Solidary Any movement and the particular form

417
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Speaker 5: of Polish communism at this point in time, but ultimately

418
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Speaker 5: like exactly what the year seventy seven signified in terms

419
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Speaker 5: of like that branching opportunity that Keith laying out, Like

420
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Speaker 5: how much of the story do you feels like a

421
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Speaker 5: universal story about humanity and choice? And how much of

422
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Speaker 5: it is like a story about a particular country and

423
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Speaker 5: a particular moment and the choices that were being made

424
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Speaker 5: like then and there.

425
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Speaker 6: So before we get into that, can I talk about

426
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Speaker 6: Can I talk about how I saw this film? Just

427
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Speaker 6: it's just a brief aside, a little sideline timeline here.

428
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Speaker 6: So you're right, Tasha, I prefer to sit down, turn

429
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Speaker 6: out the lights, put my phone away, watch a movie

430
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Speaker 6: in one sitting, but that's not always possible. I did

431
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Speaker 6: not plan well in terms of seeing this movie in

432
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Speaker 6: times of watching it. So I watched the first hour

433
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Speaker 6: of it, you know, at home, and then I had

434
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Speaker 6: to catch a flight and I thought, you know, what,

435
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Speaker 6: I'll just finish this on a plane. So I ended

436
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Speaker 6: up finishing watching most of it at the airport, kind

437
00:23:03,440 --> 00:23:05,080
Speaker 6: of hunched over because there's actually a lot of sucks

438
00:23:05,240 --> 00:23:08,920
Speaker 6: in the last stretch of this movie. And then as

439
00:23:09,119 --> 00:23:11,359
Speaker 6: I like, I like, okay, I can just finish up

440
00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:14,840
Speaker 6: here on the runway. I'll watch the end of this movie. Wow.

441
00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:17,920
Speaker 6: As we were taxing, I watched the end of this movie.

442
00:23:18,280 --> 00:23:20,320
Speaker 6: And that is how I saw the film blind Chats.

443
00:23:20,640 --> 00:23:23,320
Speaker 6: I got kind of kind of mad at Scott. Frankly,

444
00:23:24,080 --> 00:23:25,920
Speaker 6: not that you can predict this, but but he was

445
00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:28,320
Speaker 6: the one who put me in this position me, did.

446
00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:31,399
Speaker 5: You and then and then did you suddenly scream hysterically

447
00:23:31,640 --> 00:23:34,880
Speaker 5: on like on the plane going on the runway, Yes,

448
00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:36,320
Speaker 5: as as as the.

449
00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:39,440
Speaker 4: Camera my tonsils and then you had also downloaded the

450
00:23:39,480 --> 00:23:41,960
Speaker 4: film Fearless to watch on the plane as well. Yes.

451
00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:48,280
Speaker 6: But anyway, all that Scott, we answered that question first.

452
00:23:48,320 --> 00:23:49,360
Speaker 6: It's a it's a really good question.

453
00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:52,160
Speaker 4: Yeah. So to get around to this question, I did

454
00:23:52,600 --> 00:23:55,760
Speaker 4: watch it again all in one sitting, and I would

455
00:23:55,840 --> 00:23:59,680
Speaker 4: say that it really does resonate to me as universal

456
00:23:59,720 --> 00:24:03,440
Speaker 4: story that's informed by specific detail and so and so.

457
00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:08,200
Speaker 4: While I certainly cannot claim to you know, have a

458
00:24:08,320 --> 00:24:12,359
Speaker 4: grasp on you know, the very the very particular references

459
00:24:12,480 --> 00:24:16,639
Speaker 4: and you know historical and political context that Kislowski is

460
00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:21,399
Speaker 4: working with here. You know, I can recognize this is is,

461
00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:24,639
Speaker 4: I can recognize it as universal in terms of the

462
00:24:24,680 --> 00:24:28,119
Speaker 4: way destinies are shaped, the way chance works. And and

463
00:24:28,200 --> 00:24:31,120
Speaker 4: the thing I really appreciated about the whole chance part

464
00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:34,879
Speaker 4: of it is that when we think about chance, you know,

465
00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:37,080
Speaker 4: it often has to do with well, you know, we

466
00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:42,840
Speaker 4: catch this train and and uh, and this thing happens. This, Yeah,

467
00:24:42,840 --> 00:24:45,800
Speaker 4: our life goes in this direction or that direction. But

468
00:24:45,920 --> 00:24:47,960
Speaker 4: what we but what this film has to do is

469
00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:50,639
Speaker 4: is talking about is think about like what where a

470
00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:54,439
Speaker 4: person goes, Where where a person's mind mind goes, How

471
00:24:54,640 --> 00:24:57,720
Speaker 4: how how chance actually affects you know, how the same

472
00:24:57,800 --> 00:25:01,399
Speaker 4: person can be just in a difference situation and make

473
00:25:01,480 --> 00:25:04,320
Speaker 4: it and make a totally different set of choices. And

474
00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:08,239
Speaker 4: and it makes you wonder, wonder of course, about how

475
00:25:08,320 --> 00:25:12,840
Speaker 4: much control you have over your your life, about about

476
00:25:12,840 --> 00:25:14,920
Speaker 4: how much how many of your the choices that you

477
00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:17,879
Speaker 4: do make are you, how much your morality is is

478
00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:22,639
Speaker 4: can be situational, how much your politics are are influenced

479
00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:24,720
Speaker 4: by by those in your in your sphere and and

480
00:25:24,800 --> 00:25:27,440
Speaker 4: the inputs that you that you take in. You know,

481
00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:29,480
Speaker 4: It's just it's fascinating to me because I feel like

482
00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:33,000
Speaker 4: it's a it's not just kind of a a clever

483
00:25:33,119 --> 00:25:37,120
Speaker 4: little film about where your life could go. It's it's

484
00:25:37,280 --> 00:25:40,040
Speaker 4: it's really about how all of us are are are

485
00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:43,240
Speaker 4: shaped and the and uh and how how very different

486
00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:46,720
Speaker 4: we could we could be depending on you know, where

487
00:25:46,760 --> 00:25:48,320
Speaker 4: the train does or does not take us.

488
00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:49,040
Speaker 2: I mean, I.

489
00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:51,679
Speaker 5: Agree about that in the sense that, like, I think

490
00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:55,200
Speaker 5: that this is a structure that could support just about

491
00:25:55,240 --> 00:25:58,520
Speaker 5: any time and place that could be told about like

492
00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:02,400
Speaker 5: any people in any circumstance. But at the same time

493
00:26:02,920 --> 00:26:06,600
Speaker 5: I also see it as potentially especially just knowing Kislowski's

494
00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:10,080
Speaker 5: interests in the way he told stories, it does also

495
00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:13,439
Speaker 5: just feel like a big metaphor for like the country

496
00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:17,320
Speaker 5: as is at the precipice of a choice, and there

497
00:26:17,359 --> 00:26:20,760
Speaker 5: are different directions that could go in and like, to me,

498
00:26:20,920 --> 00:26:25,280
Speaker 5: this is as his films often tended to be, like

499
00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:28,920
Speaker 5: both a big story about humanity and maybe a smaller

500
00:26:29,040 --> 00:26:32,719
Speaker 5: story about his native country and the decisions that were

501
00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:33,400
Speaker 5: being made there.

502
00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:36,119
Speaker 6: Yeah, I think that's fair. I think, you know, the

503
00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:38,760
Speaker 6: universality of it can be seen in how much it's

504
00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:41,960
Speaker 6: been ripped off, right, I mean, it is just used.

505
00:26:42,440 --> 00:26:45,200
Speaker 6: You know, this, this framework has been used for you know,

506
00:26:45,280 --> 00:26:47,159
Speaker 6: sliding doors and run and Run and then you know,

507
00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:50,399
Speaker 6: countless episodes of television shows. But I also feel like

508
00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:52,879
Speaker 6: it was it's kind of prescient in that you know,

509
00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:55,159
Speaker 6: we'll get into everything everywhere, all at once. But this

510
00:26:55,359 --> 00:26:58,720
Speaker 6: is a very you know, basic idea of a basic

511
00:26:58,840 --> 00:27:00,680
Speaker 6: version of idea that wud get picked up by by

512
00:27:00,800 --> 00:27:04,840
Speaker 6: physics and theoreticians and things like that, Whereas I think

513
00:27:04,880 --> 00:27:07,120
Speaker 6: here he's just telling a story. But but I do think,

514
00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:09,800
Speaker 6: you know, there is a specificity to it in this

515
00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:12,399
Speaker 6: in the sense that it is, you know, those events

516
00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:15,679
Speaker 6: we see early on, uh in our protagonist's life are

517
00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:18,160
Speaker 6: all important. You know, his friend who leaves, who doesn't

518
00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:21,120
Speaker 6: understand why he leaves, uh is you know we find

519
00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:25,120
Speaker 6: out later, you know, the the autopsy he witnesses, which

520
00:27:25,280 --> 00:27:27,400
Speaker 6: was that a real autopsy? Sure it looked it looked

521
00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:27,800
Speaker 6: real to me.

522
00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:30,320
Speaker 5: I don't think you could possibly have faked that in

523
00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:32,560
Speaker 5: on that budget in that day and age. It would

524
00:27:32,560 --> 00:27:35,520
Speaker 5: have been so much easier to access a medical school

525
00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:37,200
Speaker 5: and and of course boy.

526
00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:40,680
Speaker 6: It's nightmare fuel. Okay, well anyway, but but yes, I think, Tasha,

527
00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:42,000
Speaker 6: I think I think you're right. I think it is

528
00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:44,320
Speaker 6: you know, I think the more you dig into specifics

529
00:27:44,440 --> 00:27:46,840
Speaker 6: of this it is, the richer it becomes, and the

530
00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:51,120
Speaker 6: more it comes about one guy's uh life. But that's

531
00:27:51,359 --> 00:27:53,520
Speaker 6: as as the story of a life. It's also works

532
00:27:53,560 --> 00:27:54,840
Speaker 6: really well well.

533
00:27:54,920 --> 00:27:57,000
Speaker 5: As always when somebody tells me I'm right, I like

534
00:27:57,080 --> 00:27:58,800
Speaker 5: to take a little pauge to just kind of bask

535
00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:01,080
Speaker 5: in it. And we need to take a break anyway. So,

536
00:28:02,520 --> 00:28:04,560
Speaker 5: given what you just said about how it just gets

537
00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:06,840
Speaker 5: richer the deeper you dive into the details, we're going

538
00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:08,680
Speaker 5: to take a short break and then come back and

539
00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:22,159
Speaker 5: dive into some of those details. So here's one of

540
00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:24,280
Speaker 5: the big questions of the movie for me, one of

541
00:28:24,320 --> 00:28:28,080
Speaker 5: the big specific questions as opposed to the big cosmic questions.

542
00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:32,200
Speaker 5: His father's last words conveyed to him are you don't

543
00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:35,720
Speaker 5: have to And with the implication that there's kind of

544
00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:38,280
Speaker 5: an ellipses there, you don't have to something that his

545
00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:42,600
Speaker 5: father wasn't able to finish, and different people have interpreted

546
00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:44,840
Speaker 5: it as you don't have to go to medical school

547
00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:47,200
Speaker 5: after all, Or it could be something as small as

548
00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:48,680
Speaker 5: like you don't have to come here and see me

549
00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:51,920
Speaker 5: I'm doing fine, which of course his father is wrong about.

550
00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:54,600
Speaker 5: But other people have taken it as kind of a

551
00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:57,360
Speaker 5: big cosmic like you don't have to do what they

552
00:28:57,440 --> 00:28:59,480
Speaker 5: tell you, or you don't have to make the same

553
00:28:59,560 --> 00:29:03,160
Speaker 5: choices all the time, or you don't have to do anything.

554
00:29:04,120 --> 00:29:06,840
Speaker 5: What what do you make of like the open endedness

555
00:29:06,920 --> 00:29:09,280
Speaker 5: of the question and how that ends up being sort

556
00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:10,160
Speaker 5: of a theme for the movie.

557
00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:13,520
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean I would have taken it, you know,

558
00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:17,840
Speaker 4: maybe partially in reference to medical school, but also that's

559
00:29:17,880 --> 00:29:20,360
Speaker 4: a sense of obligation not only to his father but

560
00:29:20,520 --> 00:29:24,720
Speaker 4: but to society and and what is expected of the

561
00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:28,400
Speaker 4: take to do right. I mean, he he had this

562
00:29:28,520 --> 00:29:32,840
Speaker 4: point in his life, has the opportunity to explore a

563
00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:35,719
Speaker 4: little bit and also to kind of think for himself

564
00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:39,880
Speaker 4: and not be tethered to one philosophy or one you know,

565
00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:44,960
Speaker 4: political notion or another. He can kind of move around, or.

566
00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:48,840
Speaker 6: One beautiful sad woman versus all the other beautiful aren't there.

567
00:29:49,280 --> 00:29:51,560
Speaker 5: I mean, it's it's possible that it's just very hard

568
00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:54,360
Speaker 5: to live in Poland, possibly as a woman, or maybe

569
00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:57,680
Speaker 5: just in general. Certainly the like the older people we

570
00:29:57,760 --> 00:30:00,440
Speaker 5: see also seem very sad. Some of the function is

571
00:30:00,840 --> 00:30:02,640
Speaker 5: very said. It's just there's not a whole lot of

572
00:30:02,840 --> 00:30:04,320
Speaker 5: non sadness.

573
00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:06,360
Speaker 4: Though, I will say, I mean, I think that the

574
00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:09,800
Speaker 4: communist in the first section or just the picture of

575
00:30:09,880 --> 00:30:14,040
Speaker 4: communism is not young and on the rise really in

576
00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:16,720
Speaker 4: this field. But it's very much like this is kind

577
00:30:16,760 --> 00:30:19,920
Speaker 4: of where things are going, and they're kind of this

578
00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:24,520
Speaker 4: is this aging decrepit once upon a time robust man

579
00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:28,080
Speaker 4: is getting older and everything and all of that is

580
00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:31,200
Speaker 4: kind of feeling like it's, you know, just kind of

581
00:30:31,280 --> 00:30:32,120
Speaker 4: clinging to the end.

582
00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:36,640
Speaker 6: The speech she gives about how you'll inevitably be disillusioned

583
00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:40,400
Speaker 6: and bitter when you're my age, it's not it's not

584
00:30:40,480 --> 00:30:42,320
Speaker 6: really a great recruitment tool. I don't think.

585
00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:46,800
Speaker 5: Well, it seems to be applicable though, regardless of what

586
00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:49,320
Speaker 5: path he chooses, unless he chooses a path that leads

587
00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:51,360
Speaker 5: him to not make it to a ripe old age.

588
00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:56,240
Speaker 5: You mentioned kind of the choices that he makes, the

589
00:30:56,440 --> 00:30:59,840
Speaker 5: open mindedness that he has, and I'm I'm sort of curious,

590
00:31:00,600 --> 00:31:03,600
Speaker 5: like what you see is I guess consistent about him

591
00:31:03,840 --> 00:31:07,760
Speaker 5: from iteration to iteration, Like I mentioned that idea that

592
00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:10,480
Speaker 5: he's at sea with his father's death, and like he's

593
00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:13,400
Speaker 5: looking for a new father figure. But there were times

594
00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:16,360
Speaker 5: when I had a hard time seeing the same person

595
00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:20,920
Speaker 5: in these three iterations, because like the version of him

596
00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:26,840
Speaker 5: who obsessively like sits down with his lover and both

597
00:31:26,920 --> 00:31:32,280
Speaker 5: of them naked, and like openly weeps over the other

598
00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:35,479
Speaker 5: people that she's had sex with while still forcing her

599
00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:38,360
Speaker 5: against her will to tell him about about that is

600
00:31:38,400 --> 00:31:40,360
Speaker 5: a little hard for me to reconcile with. Kind of

601
00:31:40,480 --> 00:31:45,280
Speaker 5: the soft, open ended boy who talks quietly to Jesus

602
00:31:45,480 --> 00:31:48,080
Speaker 5: about how all he wants out of Jesus is for

603
00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:51,000
Speaker 5: him to exist, and like I'll never ask you for

604
00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:53,840
Speaker 5: anything else again, but you know, could you please just exist?

605
00:31:54,480 --> 00:31:58,680
Speaker 5: Like these are two very different iterations of the same

606
00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:01,240
Speaker 5: seeker after the Truth, and I just I guess, I

607
00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:04,320
Speaker 5: wonder what you see as sort of the consistent personality

608
00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:07,520
Speaker 5: of a v tag through his his three lives here.

609
00:32:08,360 --> 00:32:11,680
Speaker 6: I think one thing is he tends to go all in. Uh,

610
00:32:12,600 --> 00:32:16,240
Speaker 6: he's a lost person who finds what he's you know, things,

611
00:32:16,280 --> 00:32:17,840
Speaker 6: he finds what he's looking for in each one and

612
00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:21,479
Speaker 6: commits to it until you know, until that turns against him.

613
00:32:22,120 --> 00:32:25,640
Speaker 6: But he is, you know, perfectly happy being a good

614
00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:29,800
Speaker 6: communist and being the good anti communist radical, or just

615
00:32:29,960 --> 00:32:34,600
Speaker 6: being the good husband and father until you know, he

616
00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:36,360
Speaker 6: pushes those things as far as he can take them.

617
00:32:36,960 --> 00:32:39,880
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm reminded. I wonder if Kislawski at this point

618
00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:43,800
Speaker 4: he surely had seen the Conformist right by by Bertolucci.

619
00:32:43,840 --> 00:32:46,680
Speaker 4: I mean, it seemed like a lot of similarities between

620
00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:51,160
Speaker 4: those two characters of young men who are very impressionable

621
00:32:51,440 --> 00:32:55,200
Speaker 4: and you know, in both cases kind of passive, right.

622
00:32:55,280 --> 00:32:57,160
Speaker 4: I mean, you know this is I think we can

623
00:32:57,200 --> 00:33:01,520
Speaker 4: see Viteig as somebody who you know, maybe he takes

624
00:33:01,560 --> 00:33:06,800
Speaker 4: some chances, maybe he seems enthusiastic, but he's very impressionable,

625
00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:10,480
Speaker 4: like he can be manipulated, he can be you know,

626
00:33:10,640 --> 00:33:13,760
Speaker 4: he doesn't. He's not sure of himself, and and that

627
00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:17,680
Speaker 4: kind of allows him to be tossed in these different

628
00:33:17,720 --> 00:33:21,120
Speaker 4: directions depending on which one, which you know, a destiny

629
00:33:22,040 --> 00:33:22,320
Speaker 4: we're in.

630
00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:26,240
Speaker 5: I wonder what you make of his relationship to the

631
00:33:26,800 --> 00:33:30,200
Speaker 5: three different women that he experiences and is three different timelines,

632
00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:34,080
Speaker 5: because again I feel that his relationship with them is

633
00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:37,880
Speaker 5: very different. That he comes across as like a different

634
00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:40,120
Speaker 5: kind of lover. And I don't find that to be

635
00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:45,120
Speaker 5: an inconsistency so much as it's reflective of the way

636
00:33:45,280 --> 00:33:48,040
Speaker 5: the person that we choose as our partner, the way

637
00:33:48,240 --> 00:33:50,160
Speaker 5: the person that we date or the person we marry

638
00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:53,800
Speaker 5: brings out different aspects of us, like based on their

639
00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:57,760
Speaker 5: own personality. But these these are three very different relationships

640
00:33:57,800 --> 00:33:58,480
Speaker 5: that he ends up in.

641
00:33:59,480 --> 00:34:02,840
Speaker 4: I mean, it seems like in every case the women

642
00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:05,360
Speaker 4: are more are more certain of who they are than

643
00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:07,400
Speaker 4: he is, right, I mean, you know, I mean it

644
00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:11,279
Speaker 4: almost amos. It's almost consistent with all of the people

645
00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:13,840
Speaker 4: that that he meets. He's the one who's kind of

646
00:34:13,960 --> 00:34:17,120
Speaker 4: that that kind of leaf that's drifting around in the

647
00:34:17,640 --> 00:34:20,840
Speaker 4: in the wind, and they're the wind, you know, They're

648
00:34:20,840 --> 00:34:24,719
Speaker 4: the ones who are kind of exerting their personalities and

649
00:34:24,760 --> 00:34:28,080
Speaker 4: their influence and on him and affecting his behavior.

650
00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:31,200
Speaker 6: That might explain why he is the way he is

651
00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:33,600
Speaker 6: in that first timeline that you referenced, which does even

652
00:34:33,680 --> 00:34:37,239
Speaker 6: consistent where he's he's jealous and pushy. It could just

653
00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:43,560
Speaker 6: you know, he's with the most brittle and unhappy of

654
00:34:43,880 --> 00:34:47,319
Speaker 6: the three women Ziska in that timeline, so it could

655
00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:50,080
Speaker 6: be a comment on that. You know, he certainly falls

656
00:34:50,120 --> 00:34:54,600
Speaker 6: in the third timeline, falls into very pleasant domestic blissfulness

657
00:34:54,800 --> 00:34:58,400
Speaker 6: with a woman who seems, you know, to support that's

658
00:34:58,480 --> 00:35:00,440
Speaker 6: it is it is. I think it's an just ance,

659
00:35:00,480 --> 00:35:05,040
Speaker 6: but I do I never really thought the character was inconsistent.

660
00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:06,800
Speaker 6: They always told it the same character in me, but

661
00:35:06,880 --> 00:35:09,560
Speaker 6: the behavior was quite different in each timeline.

662
00:35:10,280 --> 00:35:13,759
Speaker 5: I feel like his relationship with Zushka in the first

663
00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:17,080
Speaker 5: timeline can also be explained to some degree by the

664
00:35:17,160 --> 00:35:20,120
Speaker 5: fact that, like they kind of describe each other as

665
00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:23,960
Speaker 5: their first loves, you know, they have a of like

666
00:35:24,040 --> 00:35:28,320
Speaker 5: a connection going back to early days. And it seems

667
00:35:28,360 --> 00:35:30,600
Speaker 5: like somebody that he meets as an adult and sees

668
00:35:30,719 --> 00:35:33,680
Speaker 5: only as an adult, he can have a relationship with

669
00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:37,520
Speaker 5: her just you know, in the moment, without being obsessed

670
00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:40,120
Speaker 5: with her past. But somebody that he kind of feels

671
00:35:40,200 --> 00:35:44,040
Speaker 5: like he separated from and maybe if he hadn't, she

672
00:35:44,120 --> 00:35:46,400
Speaker 5: wouldn't have ever been with anybody else, she would have

673
00:35:46,480 --> 00:35:49,600
Speaker 5: ever had any of the memories she had. Maybe that's

674
00:35:49,920 --> 00:35:52,160
Speaker 5: just a place where he's seeing a different way that

675
00:35:52,239 --> 00:35:55,600
Speaker 5: their path could have gone, which is not something apart

676
00:35:55,640 --> 00:35:58,839
Speaker 5: from the little side conversations that crop up in these

677
00:35:58,880 --> 00:36:01,960
Speaker 5: stories about chants, which I find it very interesting that

678
00:36:02,040 --> 00:36:05,279
Speaker 5: in one case he's the one being told like, oh,

679
00:36:05,360 --> 00:36:08,400
Speaker 5: the fact that we're here is just a coincidence of timing,

680
00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:11,640
Speaker 5: and he denies it, and in another one he brings

681
00:36:11,680 --> 00:36:16,120
Speaker 5: it up himself and ascribes things to chance. But in yeah,

682
00:36:16,160 --> 00:36:18,759
Speaker 5: in the case of his relationship with her, first of all,

683
00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:21,359
Speaker 5: I find that relationship very creepy, but second of all,

684
00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:25,840
Speaker 5: it seemed like it was just him thinking maybe about

685
00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:28,520
Speaker 5: what could have been and how he would have been

686
00:36:28,560 --> 00:36:31,440
Speaker 5: different for it, in a way that maybe doesn't come

687
00:36:31,480 --> 00:36:32,960
Speaker 5: up as much in the other timelines.

688
00:36:33,640 --> 00:36:36,600
Speaker 6: I guess it kind of brings us to another question

689
00:36:36,719 --> 00:36:39,960
Speaker 6: about vtag or Partexes, is do we like him? Do

690
00:36:40,040 --> 00:36:43,400
Speaker 6: we find him sympathetic? I'll say I must I do.

691
00:36:43,640 --> 00:36:46,759
Speaker 6: I don't always like what he does, but I think

692
00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:50,120
Speaker 6: the film is really good about putting us making us

693
00:36:50,120 --> 00:36:52,240
Speaker 6: see the world from his point of view, however different

694
00:36:52,280 --> 00:36:56,080
Speaker 6: those worlds are from vision to vision, that it's hard

695
00:36:56,160 --> 00:36:57,120
Speaker 6: not to feel for him.

696
00:36:58,000 --> 00:37:00,440
Speaker 5: I don't know that I like I love him as

697
00:37:00,440 --> 00:37:05,440
Speaker 5: a character, as a protagonist that I feel strongly with

698
00:37:05,640 --> 00:37:07,839
Speaker 5: him at every step of the journey, just because those

699
00:37:07,920 --> 00:37:10,879
Speaker 5: journeys are so different. He feels a little wishy washy

700
00:37:10,920 --> 00:37:13,520
Speaker 5: to me. He feels a little needy in some places

701
00:37:13,600 --> 00:37:17,080
Speaker 5: and little controlling in others. But there are absolutely moments

702
00:37:17,800 --> 00:37:22,880
Speaker 5: where just his innate I want to say goodness. And

703
00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:26,400
Speaker 5: that's maybe a little hard to take. I mean, given

704
00:37:26,680 --> 00:37:30,920
Speaker 5: the kind of the precipitating incident is like running through

705
00:37:31,400 --> 00:37:34,319
Speaker 5: a train station, knocking people over, causing an old lady

706
00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:36,560
Speaker 5: to lose her money, like knocking the beer out of

707
00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:40,320
Speaker 5: somebody's hand, slamming into a train conductor, like all of

708
00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:43,160
Speaker 5: these things kind of speak to a selfishness, which is

709
00:37:44,239 --> 00:37:47,920
Speaker 5: he's so sorry. Sometimes he's a very youthful character, and

710
00:37:48,040 --> 00:37:51,560
Speaker 5: of course he's grieving. You know, he's in the moment

711
00:37:51,760 --> 00:37:54,279
Speaker 5: of some of the greatest pain of his life. So

712
00:37:54,360 --> 00:37:58,840
Speaker 5: there's all sorts of excuses for some of his worst behavior.

713
00:37:59,239 --> 00:38:01,560
Speaker 5: But some of his bad behavior, like I just I

714
00:38:01,680 --> 00:38:07,520
Speaker 5: come back more than anything to the first sequence and

715
00:38:07,800 --> 00:38:10,120
Speaker 5: him going to the asylum. Among the drug users, he

716
00:38:11,040 --> 00:38:14,360
Speaker 5: actually tried to help one of them escape his minders

717
00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:17,040
Speaker 5: on the train, just out of a feeling a fellow

718
00:38:17,080 --> 00:38:20,160
Speaker 5: feeling of not wanting to see somebody in captivity, and

719
00:38:20,239 --> 00:38:23,160
Speaker 5: then he takes up the charge to go break up

720
00:38:23,200 --> 00:38:26,879
Speaker 5: this protest, seemingly just because he's doing what he's told.

721
00:38:26,960 --> 00:38:31,280
Speaker 5: But once he gets there, he very clearly like empathizes

722
00:38:31,520 --> 00:38:35,239
Speaker 5: with the drug addicts and empathizes with what they've been through,

723
00:38:35,520 --> 00:38:39,160
Speaker 5: but also still cares about the lives of the doctors

724
00:38:39,200 --> 00:38:42,000
Speaker 5: and the orderlies, and when he sees an opportunity to

725
00:38:42,040 --> 00:38:44,760
Speaker 5: save their lives, he acts on it. When he sees

726
00:38:44,920 --> 00:38:47,600
Speaker 5: that his actions may result in the death of the

727
00:38:47,680 --> 00:38:51,760
Speaker 5: drug addicts, he rushes back into captivity and potentially towards

728
00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:54,480
Speaker 5: his own death. And that moment in the cage where

729
00:38:54,719 --> 00:38:58,440
Speaker 5: the addict splashes fluid all over the place and goes

730
00:38:58,480 --> 00:39:01,000
Speaker 5: to light it on fire and thinks it's gasoline and

731
00:39:01,080 --> 00:39:03,839
Speaker 5: he thinks he's about to die in agony, Like, it's

732
00:39:03,960 --> 00:39:06,400
Speaker 5: very hard to not empathize with that moment and and

733
00:39:06,560 --> 00:39:10,719
Speaker 5: empathize with the protagonist who chose that moment over his

734
00:39:10,840 --> 00:39:12,799
Speaker 5: own escape because he was trying to help people.

735
00:39:13,040 --> 00:39:16,640
Speaker 4: You know, he throws some punches too righteous, Some righteous

736
00:39:16,640 --> 00:39:18,359
Speaker 4: punches get thrown in this right.

737
00:39:19,200 --> 00:39:21,680
Speaker 5: Well, he certainly wails on that train conductor.

738
00:39:21,840 --> 00:39:24,640
Speaker 4: No, no, no, in the in the office against the

739
00:39:25,520 --> 00:39:27,839
Speaker 4: Is it that the first sequence with with the uh

740
00:39:29,160 --> 00:39:32,680
Speaker 4: where where gets gets detained and he is that? Is

741
00:39:32,719 --> 00:39:34,879
Speaker 4: that right? Is the first sequence where he comes back

742
00:39:34,920 --> 00:39:39,759
Speaker 4: and slugs the functionary.

743
00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:42,040
Speaker 5: Yeah, Adam his handler.

744
00:39:42,239 --> 00:39:44,480
Speaker 4: Yeah, so that that that shows a little bit of

745
00:39:44,800 --> 00:39:46,759
Speaker 4: you know, so so maybe in that sense, you know,

746
00:39:46,840 --> 00:39:49,920
Speaker 4: he's not quite as passive as maybe I seem to

747
00:39:50,080 --> 00:39:52,200
Speaker 4: suggest that that he was. Maybe he you know, he

748
00:39:52,719 --> 00:39:56,520
Speaker 4: maybe when he gets himself in these situations, starts to

749
00:39:56,600 --> 00:40:00,560
Speaker 4: get a sense of what's happening and what he feels is,

750
00:40:01,600 --> 00:40:04,960
Speaker 4: you know, right and wrong. He's capable of taking action,

751
00:40:05,080 --> 00:40:07,200
Speaker 4: and he's also capable of just being a flawed person

752
00:40:07,320 --> 00:40:11,040
Speaker 4: of just not of not realizing. You know, I don't

753
00:40:11,040 --> 00:40:16,200
Speaker 4: think he really realizes what he's done to Jushka until

754
00:40:16,480 --> 00:40:18,640
Speaker 4: it happens, you know, in terms of you know, in

755
00:40:18,760 --> 00:40:22,000
Speaker 4: terms of kind of making her life a lot worse.

756
00:40:22,480 --> 00:40:24,480
Speaker 4: You know that that was just seems like a like

757
00:40:24,560 --> 00:40:27,960
Speaker 4: an error on his part, which again that's a human

758
00:40:28,040 --> 00:40:29,560
Speaker 4: thing too to make, to make mistakes.

759
00:40:30,200 --> 00:40:32,720
Speaker 5: Yeah, and I can't fully parse out why that happens

760
00:40:32,800 --> 00:40:36,719
Speaker 5: if it's just complete thoughtlessness on his part that leads

761
00:40:36,760 --> 00:40:39,040
Speaker 5: him to expose the fact that his girlfriend is involved

762
00:40:39,080 --> 00:40:42,280
Speaker 5: in these illegal underground activities that can get her detained

763
00:40:42,360 --> 00:40:46,000
Speaker 5: and possibly tortured and murdered, or he just he's going

764
00:40:46,520 --> 00:40:49,759
Speaker 5: he's you know, conversing with his friend Adam in a

765
00:40:49,920 --> 00:40:51,840
Speaker 5: very like, well, of course we can all get along

766
00:40:52,040 --> 00:40:56,800
Speaker 5: kind of way. Like both of those responses are pretty naive,

767
00:40:57,440 --> 00:41:00,960
Speaker 5: and you know, it's it's an issue he's so naive

768
00:41:01,120 --> 00:41:04,799
Speaker 5: in a country and a time where that can get

769
00:41:04,840 --> 00:41:05,920
Speaker 5: you killed by the government.

770
00:41:06,440 --> 00:41:08,719
Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't think he really realizes. It takes him

771
00:41:08,760 --> 00:41:12,040
Speaker 4: that stretch to really realize what he's gotten himself into, right,

772
00:41:12,080 --> 00:41:14,320
Speaker 4: And I mean like like he and part part of

773
00:41:14,360 --> 00:41:17,040
Speaker 4: that is being as naive as he is. I mean,

774
00:41:17,080 --> 00:41:20,520
Speaker 4: that's that's what we do as people, we uh, and

775
00:41:20,640 --> 00:41:23,719
Speaker 4: when we're young, we have to learn things, and you know,

776
00:41:23,800 --> 00:41:26,279
Speaker 4: sometimes we learn things the hard way, and sometimes people

777
00:41:27,120 --> 00:41:30,040
Speaker 4: who we don't want to get hurt end up learning

778
00:41:30,040 --> 00:41:33,040
Speaker 4: things the hard way because we screwed up. So again,

779
00:41:33,239 --> 00:41:35,040
Speaker 4: in that sense, very human.

780
00:41:35,800 --> 00:41:38,120
Speaker 5: I feel like one of the important things to note

781
00:41:38,160 --> 00:41:40,840
Speaker 5: here is that the story isn't just about his choices

782
00:41:40,960 --> 00:41:44,239
Speaker 5: and how they change things. Much like in Run Lola Run,

783
00:41:44,320 --> 00:41:48,400
Speaker 5: where one of the you know, plot ARCS is heavily

784
00:41:48,480 --> 00:41:52,440
Speaker 5: influenced by what the what a dog in Lola's apartment

785
00:41:52,520 --> 00:41:57,399
Speaker 5: building does? It seems here like exactly how the train

786
00:41:57,520 --> 00:42:00,680
Speaker 5: conductor responds, like where he is and again moment, and

787
00:42:00,760 --> 00:42:04,200
Speaker 5: how he acts where the drunk with the giant beer

788
00:42:04,880 --> 00:42:08,080
Speaker 5: is and exactly how he reacts like these things shape

789
00:42:08,160 --> 00:42:11,399
Speaker 5: whether he makes the train. The question of like who

790
00:42:12,080 --> 00:42:15,880
Speaker 5: is who shows up where an these timelines is very different.

791
00:42:16,440 --> 00:42:19,240
Speaker 5: How much do you think Kilowski is saying here about

792
00:42:20,480 --> 00:42:22,640
Speaker 5: it isn't just the choices we make. It isn't just

793
00:42:23,040 --> 00:42:25,520
Speaker 5: you know, fate leading us in one direction. It's just

794
00:42:25,920 --> 00:42:28,759
Speaker 5: I mean, as the title says, blind chance, it's the

795
00:42:28,840 --> 00:42:29,560
Speaker 5: butterfly effect.

796
00:42:29,600 --> 00:42:32,040
Speaker 6: Before the butterfly effect had been coined as a term.

797
00:42:32,280 --> 00:42:35,120
Speaker 6: You know, you know, whether or not that guy gets

798
00:42:35,160 --> 00:42:38,440
Speaker 6: his coined to buy the beer changes everything.

799
00:42:38,920 --> 00:42:40,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I mean, I think he's given you a

800
00:42:40,760 --> 00:42:44,240
Speaker 4: lot of different things to think about in terms of chance.

801
00:42:44,480 --> 00:42:47,520
Speaker 4: I mean, and there is something as simple as blind

802
00:42:47,640 --> 00:42:51,040
Speaker 4: chance of knocking into somebody, of not making a train,

803
00:42:51,719 --> 00:42:54,400
Speaker 4: of being the wrong place at the wrong time or

804
00:42:54,400 --> 00:42:57,320
Speaker 4: the right place at the right time, all of that stuff.

805
00:42:57,360 --> 00:43:00,560
Speaker 4: And then there are just situations that present them, and

806
00:43:00,719 --> 00:43:02,799
Speaker 4: that Vitech and all of us have to come think

807
00:43:02,800 --> 00:43:05,839
Speaker 4: our ways through those situations. One thing I was thinking

808
00:43:05,880 --> 00:43:09,920
Speaker 4: about too, and this surely had to be an influence

809
00:43:09,960 --> 00:43:16,400
Speaker 4: on Kislowski is his countryman Vida. Under his Vida particularly,

810
00:43:16,440 --> 00:43:19,279
Speaker 4: there's this movie that Vida did like that it was like,

811
00:43:20,000 --> 00:43:22,400
Speaker 4: look at three hour film i'd like to say, called

812
00:43:23,040 --> 00:43:26,720
Speaker 4: Man of Marble and Man of Marble Zwayne in nineteen

813
00:43:26,800 --> 00:43:29,960
Speaker 4: seventy seven is a movie about so much of this

814
00:43:30,080 --> 00:43:35,760
Speaker 4: in the sense that it's about how people are rendered

815
00:43:35,760 --> 00:43:40,600
Speaker 4: almost helpless by the forces of history. I mean, Man

816
00:43:40,680 --> 00:43:44,520
Speaker 4: of Marble is about this young filmmaker woman as it happens,

817
00:43:44,719 --> 00:43:48,719
Speaker 4: who's like a film student, who is who decides to

818
00:43:48,920 --> 00:43:53,239
Speaker 4: make to figure out what happened to this bricklayer who

819
00:43:53,280 --> 00:43:57,960
Speaker 4: in the fifties was this propaganda figure. It was a

820
00:43:58,520 --> 00:44:02,000
Speaker 4: hero Man of Marble, as the title implies, and then

821
00:44:02,239 --> 00:44:06,480
Speaker 4: was rendered obscure as he fell out of favor and

822
00:44:06,560 --> 00:44:10,320
Speaker 4: as the historical wind started to shift. And I just

823
00:44:10,400 --> 00:44:13,480
Speaker 4: feel like that kind of that's kind of in the

824
00:44:13,560 --> 00:44:18,919
Speaker 4: air in a movie like Blind Chance, of people only

825
00:44:19,160 --> 00:44:24,040
Speaker 4: being able to exert so much control over very powerful

826
00:44:24,840 --> 00:44:27,320
Speaker 4: political and historical forces. That sort of kick him around.

827
00:44:28,120 --> 00:44:31,239
Speaker 5: I certainly think that's true, especially given that all three

828
00:44:31,320 --> 00:44:35,399
Speaker 5: of these arcs, and in the first case he can't

829
00:44:35,440 --> 00:44:37,520
Speaker 5: take the trip that he wanted to take because the

830
00:44:37,600 --> 00:44:40,359
Speaker 5: protests are going on. In the second he can't take

831
00:44:40,400 --> 00:44:44,600
Speaker 5: the trip because of his own politics, but we still

832
00:44:44,719 --> 00:44:48,040
Speaker 5: see that the protests are kicking in and with the

833
00:44:48,080 --> 00:44:50,560
Speaker 5: implication that everything's going to change. And then in the

834
00:44:50,640 --> 00:44:53,920
Speaker 5: third one, he dies for reasons completely outside of his

835
00:44:54,000 --> 00:44:57,719
Speaker 5: control and seemingly completely outside of his choices, but again

836
00:44:57,960 --> 00:45:02,080
Speaker 5: while while making a trip, And all three cases were

837
00:45:02,160 --> 00:45:04,480
Speaker 5: kind of back to his fate be being determined by

838
00:45:04,760 --> 00:45:08,080
Speaker 5: a mode of transport that he makes or doesn't make,

839
00:45:08,120 --> 00:45:09,360
Speaker 5: that he gets on or doesn't get on.

840
00:45:09,880 --> 00:45:15,320
Speaker 6: Well, i'specifically attempt to leave Poland exactly which Poland becomes

841
00:45:15,400 --> 00:45:17,120
Speaker 6: kind of kind of a trap in some ways.

842
00:45:17,520 --> 00:45:21,440
Speaker 5: And in two cases it continues to trap him for

843
00:45:21,600 --> 00:45:23,760
Speaker 5: better or for worse, and in one case it doesn't,

844
00:45:24,239 --> 00:45:28,640
Speaker 5: like distinctly for worse. So I guess I just I wondered.

845
00:45:28,800 --> 00:45:32,160
Speaker 5: I certainly wondered watching the first arc for the first time,

846
00:45:32,400 --> 00:45:34,719
Speaker 5: just like, why are we stopping the story here? It

847
00:45:34,880 --> 00:45:38,799
Speaker 5: just seemed like, you know, his exasperation over not being

848
00:45:38,840 --> 00:45:41,600
Speaker 5: able to like go to France just seemed like a

849
00:45:41,719 --> 00:45:44,320
Speaker 5: very weird place for what seemed like a big cosmic

850
00:45:44,440 --> 00:45:47,200
Speaker 5: story about choices to end on. But I guess it

851
00:45:47,760 --> 00:45:49,480
Speaker 5: ends up with a lot more shape once you see

852
00:45:49,600 --> 00:45:51,799
Speaker 5: all of the pieces put in place, which I guess

853
00:45:51,880 --> 00:45:53,160
Speaker 5: is very Kislowski in general.

854
00:45:53,960 --> 00:45:57,040
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's tidy, but not not tidy at the same time.

855
00:45:57,120 --> 00:46:00,600
Speaker 4: I mean, even like the structure of this movie overall

856
00:46:01,520 --> 00:46:05,400
Speaker 4: is a little deliberately oblong, because I mean, because you're

857
00:46:05,440 --> 00:46:10,600
Speaker 4: not just immediately thrown into three timelines of equal length,

858
00:46:10,800 --> 00:46:12,760
Speaker 4: you know, you get you get a lot of the beginning,

859
00:46:13,080 --> 00:46:15,080
Speaker 4: and then the first segment, the first of the three,

860
00:46:15,239 --> 00:46:17,880
Speaker 4: is the longest of the three, and it's it's all

861
00:46:18,080 --> 00:46:22,120
Speaker 4: you know, I think, I think he's He's you know,

862
00:46:22,400 --> 00:46:26,000
Speaker 4: it allows things to be a little bit looser in

863
00:46:26,120 --> 00:46:28,000
Speaker 4: terms of where he goes, but I'm not sure. Yeah,

864
00:46:28,000 --> 00:46:31,200
Speaker 4: I can't really. It doesn't feel arbitrary. I guess where

865
00:46:31,239 --> 00:46:34,840
Speaker 4: he ends up cutting out of like that first segment

866
00:46:34,920 --> 00:46:37,839
Speaker 4: to me, but I can't really explain why that's that's

867
00:46:37,880 --> 00:46:38,280
Speaker 4: the moment.

868
00:46:38,920 --> 00:46:41,800
Speaker 6: Well, I just say, everyone with a trip that doesn't

869
00:46:41,840 --> 00:46:43,520
Speaker 6: happen a trip to Paris and stuff.

870
00:46:43,520 --> 00:46:46,719
Speaker 5: Hell yeah, yeah, it still feels kind of arbitrary to

871
00:46:46,800 --> 00:46:49,160
Speaker 5: me until, like, as I say, you see the whole

872
00:46:49,200 --> 00:46:50,720
Speaker 5: thing in the full picture comes into effect.

873
00:46:51,080 --> 00:46:52,040
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean that's true.

874
00:46:52,640 --> 00:46:57,280
Speaker 5: That's very part for the course for Keithlawski's later career,

875
00:46:57,520 --> 00:47:02,400
Speaker 5: where he kept telling these stories that you know, a

876
00:47:02,480 --> 00:47:05,040
Speaker 5: film would tell a story, but you couldn't really see

877
00:47:05,080 --> 00:47:09,400
Speaker 5: the impact of the overall plan until you'd seen, you know,

878
00:47:09,719 --> 00:47:11,640
Speaker 5: both a short film about love and a short film

879
00:47:11,680 --> 00:47:14,160
Speaker 5: about death, or until you'd seen a bunch of the

880
00:47:14,200 --> 00:47:17,359
Speaker 5: Decalogue movies, or until you'd seen Red, White, and Blue,

881
00:47:17,640 --> 00:47:21,759
Speaker 5: which each tell very distinctive stories but in a way

882
00:47:21,960 --> 00:47:26,080
Speaker 5: that's both meant to rhyme and in the case of Red,

883
00:47:26,719 --> 00:47:29,239
Speaker 5: kind of all comes together at the end with you know,

884
00:47:29,520 --> 00:47:32,000
Speaker 5: the characters resurfacing in one place, which is something we

885
00:47:32,160 --> 00:47:35,040
Speaker 5: also get to see here. So I guess just kind

886
00:47:35,040 --> 00:47:36,759
Speaker 5: of to close out, like, are there other ways in

887
00:47:36,800 --> 00:47:41,440
Speaker 5: which you feel this film reflects Kilsky's like storytelling interests,

888
00:47:41,520 --> 00:47:46,480
Speaker 5: political interests, filmmaking interests. As I said at the beginning,

889
00:47:46,480 --> 00:47:48,520
Speaker 5: it kind of feels like a Rosetta stone that just

890
00:47:48,600 --> 00:47:51,000
Speaker 5: like piles up a whole lot of the things he's

891
00:47:51,040 --> 00:47:54,120
Speaker 5: interested in in one place, sometimes in more nascent forms

892
00:47:54,160 --> 00:47:54,560
Speaker 5: than others.

893
00:47:55,080 --> 00:47:57,160
Speaker 4: Yeah, it does, and it's and I mean the cool

894
00:47:57,200 --> 00:48:01,680
Speaker 4: thing about Kislowski's career is that it really is an evolution.

895
00:48:01,840 --> 00:48:04,239
Speaker 4: I mean you really see. I bet you could watch

896
00:48:04,520 --> 00:48:07,759
Speaker 4: his films in any random order, at least if you

897
00:48:07,840 --> 00:48:10,680
Speaker 4: were to group that, say, the Colors Trilogy together. Anyway,

898
00:48:11,120 --> 00:48:13,360
Speaker 4: you watch them any random order and be able to

899
00:48:13,719 --> 00:48:18,320
Speaker 4: then lay out exactly when they were made in you know,

900
00:48:18,560 --> 00:48:22,200
Speaker 4: in progression. I think there's there there's such a an

901
00:48:22,360 --> 00:48:24,920
Speaker 4: arc to his career. I mean, you know, I mean

902
00:48:24,960 --> 00:48:26,839
Speaker 4: you talked about I haven't seen any of those more

903
00:48:27,440 --> 00:48:31,439
Speaker 4: those documentaries are more documentary like movies. But but Blind

904
00:48:31,560 --> 00:48:33,799
Speaker 4: Chance has has that kind of look to them. I mean,

905
00:48:34,000 --> 00:48:38,480
Speaker 4: is later films double a veronique. The Colors Trilogy are

906
00:48:38,560 --> 00:48:41,200
Speaker 4: quite you know, the color, the use of color is

907
00:48:41,239 --> 00:48:44,759
Speaker 4: obviously quite striking in those. But then these these you know,

908
00:48:46,080 --> 00:48:48,320
Speaker 4: these themes are present all along. I just think the

909
00:48:48,400 --> 00:48:54,719
Speaker 4: way he presents them is evolves over over time. And

910
00:48:55,239 --> 00:48:57,920
Speaker 4: and I really like the music too, is such a

911
00:48:58,520 --> 00:49:01,759
Speaker 4: that's another element of this movie, what with the you know,

912
00:49:01,920 --> 00:49:06,000
Speaker 4: he uses the score really sparingly. I think just really,

913
00:49:06,560 --> 00:49:11,040
Speaker 4: you'll only really hear it during the trains sequences that before.

914
00:49:11,520 --> 00:49:14,120
Speaker 4: But it's so good. It's such a good score. And

915
00:49:14,160 --> 00:49:16,960
Speaker 4: I think that's his composer later on too.

916
00:49:16,920 --> 00:49:21,560
Speaker 6: Right, it's Vults Keelar, who I don't think is his

917
00:49:22,239 --> 00:49:26,200
Speaker 6: composer for the Three Colors films. So that's that's the proctog.

918
00:49:26,440 --> 00:49:30,400
Speaker 6: Oh okay, okay, yeah, yeah, but anyway, I'm pressing all

919
00:49:30,440 --> 00:49:30,960
Speaker 6: those horribly.

920
00:49:31,040 --> 00:49:34,520
Speaker 4: But but yeah, right though though the composer of this,

921
00:49:34,840 --> 00:49:37,480
Speaker 4: of this film, I knew I recognized the name, did

922
00:49:37,560 --> 00:49:41,279
Speaker 4: the score for brob Stoker's Dracula. Oh wow, which is

923
00:49:41,320 --> 00:49:45,560
Speaker 4: pretty cool. Another really cool score. So music was was,

924
00:49:46,440 --> 00:49:49,800
Speaker 4: you know, an important, really important part of you know,

925
00:49:50,040 --> 00:49:54,439
Speaker 4: the Three Colors trilogy Blue especially, but you could see

926
00:49:55,560 --> 00:49:56,759
Speaker 4: some of the roots of that here too.

927
00:49:57,560 --> 00:49:59,760
Speaker 5: Well, there's a lot more to talk about in terms

928
00:49:59,800 --> 00:50:06,680
Speaker 5: of blind chances, big messages about religion, philosophy, chance, choice, love,

929
00:50:07,600 --> 00:50:09,920
Speaker 5: the future, the past, how all of these things fit together.

930
00:50:10,200 --> 00:50:11,960
Speaker 5: But we're going to have to consider those next time.

931
00:50:12,400 --> 00:50:14,200
Speaker 5: For the moment, would love to hear your thoughts on

932
00:50:14,440 --> 00:50:18,480
Speaker 5: blind Chance and Christoph Koslowski and anything else in the

933
00:50:18,520 --> 00:50:20,880
Speaker 5: world of film that you'd like to discuss email us

934
00:50:20,880 --> 00:50:22,960
Speaker 5: at comments at next pictureshow dot net if you want

935
00:50:22,960 --> 00:50:25,120
Speaker 5: to share any responses with us and with other listeners,

936
00:50:25,480 --> 00:50:27,080
Speaker 5: and we'll be back in a minute with a preview

937
00:50:27,120 --> 00:50:34,680
Speaker 5: of our next episode. That's it for this episode of

938
00:50:34,719 --> 00:50:37,120
Speaker 5: The Next Picture Show. In our next episode, we're going

939
00:50:37,200 --> 00:50:40,120
Speaker 5: to compare Blind Chants with Daniel Schinert and Daniel Kwan's

940
00:50:40,200 --> 00:50:42,920
Speaker 5: Everything Everywhere, All at Once, which starts with a similar

941
00:50:42,920 --> 00:50:45,040
Speaker 5: idea about chance and choice shaping our lives into a

942
00:50:45,080 --> 00:50:48,239
Speaker 5: wide variety of radically different stories, then blows it all

943
00:50:48,280 --> 00:50:51,719
Speaker 5: out into all martial arts special effects spectacular crammed with

944
00:50:51,800 --> 00:50:55,399
Speaker 5: alternating silly and serious ideas in a remarkably unique way

945
00:50:55,560 --> 00:50:58,360
Speaker 5: that takes an immense amount of unpacking after the fact

946
00:50:58,840 --> 00:51:02,040
Speaker 5: after a slow rollout. The film is currently in theaters nationwide.

947
00:51:02,360 --> 00:51:05,120
Speaker 5: Look for that episode next Tuesday on your podcatcher of choice.

948
00:51:05,520 --> 00:51:08,280
Speaker 5: For add free versions of the podcast and for extra content,

949
00:51:08,440 --> 00:51:11,799
Speaker 5: including letters from other listeners and our responses, find us

950
00:51:11,840 --> 00:51:14,799
Speaker 5: on Patreon at patreon dot com slash Next Picture Show.

951
00:51:15,000 --> 00:51:17,759
Speaker 5: We're eager to answer your feedback on Feedback Friday. We

952
00:51:17,880 --> 00:51:20,920
Speaker 5: recently talked about Steven Spielberg's voice as a filmmaker in

953
00:51:21,120 --> 00:51:24,400
Speaker 5: Ai Chloe Show's voice as a filmmaker in Marvel's Eternals,

954
00:51:24,719 --> 00:51:28,040
Speaker 5: and the downside of packing filmmakers into tight little pigeonholes

955
00:51:28,040 --> 00:51:29,960
Speaker 5: based on their past work. You can find us at

956
00:51:30,040 --> 00:51:32,840
Speaker 5: next pictureshow dot net and on Twitter at Next Picture

957
00:51:32,920 --> 00:51:34,719
Speaker 5: Pod if you want to keep track of when new

958
00:51:34,760 --> 00:51:37,879
Speaker 5: episodes drop until next week? Have you ever thought about

959
00:51:37,880 --> 00:51:40,680
Speaker 5: a career writing protest songs seems to be a worthwhile

960
00:51:40,760 --> 00:51:42,400
Speaker 5: skill to have in every multiverse.