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Speaker 1: That's O T T E R dot ai. Hi everyone,

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Speaker 1: I'm Katie Curic and I'm Bozma st John and this

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Speaker 1: is back to biz with Katie and Bose Bose. I

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Speaker 1: don't know about you, but I'm super psyched today because

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Speaker 1: Stacy Abrams is such a rock star. And I'm sure

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Speaker 1: you probably agree. Oh yes, I certainly agree. She has

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Speaker 1: that black girl magic. It can't be bottled. Hers is

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Speaker 1: coming out of her ears, out of her toes everywhere. Gosh,

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Speaker 1: that magic. She's got it. Now, if you guys have

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Speaker 1: heard of Stacy Abrams, who probably know about her historic

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Speaker 1: run for governor of Georgia two years ago in two

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Speaker 1: thousand eighteen, she narrowly lost to Brian Kemp, who was

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Speaker 1: then the Secretary of State. And we'll be talking about

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Speaker 1: that obviously, bows right, and Stacy was the first black

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Speaker 1: woman in the US to win the nomination for governor period.

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Speaker 1: I'm talking first black woman. Did you did you hear me?

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Speaker 1: They did? Okay? Ever in the US like ever? Okay, Well,

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Speaker 1: I'm just saying she's history making. She was born in Madison, Wisconsin,

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Speaker 1: raised in Gulfport, Mississippi, and her family moved to Atlanta,

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Speaker 1: where both her parents got graduate degrees and became Methodist ministers.

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Speaker 1: So she's also a p K, otherwise known as as

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Speaker 1: Preacher's kid. That's oh, that's a new one for me,

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Speaker 1: Thank you. Bows. Yeah, and I know that her family

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Speaker 1: really focused on education and it showed with Stacy. She

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Speaker 1: graduated Magnicum Laudie from Spellman and then she got her

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Speaker 1: law degree from Yale, so she's quite the smarty pants.

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Speaker 1: She then served in the Georgia House of Representatives for

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Speaker 1: ten years. She's been an activist her whole life, fighting

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Speaker 1: particularly for voting rights. And she's got a new book

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Speaker 1: out Bows called Our Time Is Now. It's perfect for

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Speaker 1: this moment and this movement. It's a call to action,

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Speaker 1: to protest, but also to participate and vote during this

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Speaker 1: age of transformational change. That's right, this is perfect And

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Speaker 1: I'm so excited to have her on this show. You know,

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Speaker 1: not only do we share being p k's, but she's

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Speaker 1: also a fellow Trekky prosper baby, you know what. I'm

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Speaker 1: more of a Picard person. So we'll see where she is. Um,

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Speaker 1: we'll talk to her about her book, about November and

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Speaker 1: about all that has been happening in her home state,

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Speaker 1: from Georgia's primary debacle to the death of Ray Schard

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Speaker 1: Brooks in Atlanta. But first we want to get to

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Speaker 1: know her a little bit, so let's get to it. Okay,

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Speaker 1: So now here's the big question. Of course, are you

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Speaker 1: under the tutelage of Captain Kirk or Captain Picard? The card? See,

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Speaker 1: I knew, I knew it. I knew it all along.

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Speaker 1: I knew that we were sisters. I knew it. But

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Speaker 1: before you fall too deeply in love, I think that

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Speaker 1: Captain Picard is the archetype of a Star Trek captain.

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Speaker 1: But I think Captain Janeway had the hardest mission and

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Speaker 1: did the best work, you know what. Say, so let

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Speaker 1: me tell you something. Okay, we we are. I think

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Speaker 1: we're meant to be because the way I'm feeling about

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Speaker 1: Jane Way, I just wish that she had more of

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Speaker 1: an audience, you know, But that could also speak to

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Speaker 1: our issues anyway, exactly right, which is why she she was.

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Speaker 1: I love the card. He will always be the archetype.

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Speaker 1: But look, it's it's it is much harder to be

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Speaker 1: a captain when you are stranded and have to hold

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Speaker 1: your values with no one else holding you accountable. You

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Speaker 1: know what. This could just start off the entire conversation. Well,

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Speaker 1: except I feel very left out, ladies, because I don't

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Speaker 1: watch Star Trek I will say that. Just think about

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Speaker 1: it this way. In a pantheon of men who get

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Speaker 1: credit for everything, this was a woman who had the heart,

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Speaker 1: was sent away from everything, no resources, and still managed

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Speaker 1: to be just a badass. Yes, tell it. And I

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Speaker 1: feel like everything we need to know about life in

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Speaker 1: society we could learn on Star Trek. I'm gonna I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna have to start watching it, ladies, so I can

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Speaker 1: be part of this conversation. Welcome you into the cult,

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Speaker 1: Thank you, thank you, Live long and prosper. Right there

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Speaker 1: you go. Earlier I said, may the Force be with you,

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Speaker 1: and Bo said no, no, no, that's Star Wars, completely

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Speaker 1: different universe. Anyway, Well, we want to talk about your universe,

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Speaker 1: Stacy Abrams, because it's so fascinating. We have so much

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Speaker 1: to cover, and we wanted to start with learning a

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Speaker 1: little more about you as a person. I know that

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Speaker 1: you share a memory in your new book called Our

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Speaker 1: Time Is Now that kind of tells us a lot

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Speaker 1: about what you were like as a child that informed

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Speaker 1: who you became as an adult. And that was when

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Speaker 1: you were six years old and you got into your

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Speaker 1: only schoolyard fight. Wait for it, everyone over the nineteen

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Speaker 1: eighty election between Jimmy Carter and Ronald Reagan. I love

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Speaker 1: that you got into a fight at six about politics.

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Speaker 1: Can you take us back to what you were fighting

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Speaker 1: about and what it tells us about who you were

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Speaker 1: as a kid. I grew up in Gulfport, Mississippi, which

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Speaker 1: was one of the more liberal places in the state

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Speaker 1: of Mississippi, but still fairly conservative. I went to elementary

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Speaker 1: school that was integrated, but I tended to end up

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Speaker 1: in classes. My classroom was predominantly white, and there was

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Speaker 1: a young woman in the class who she and I

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Speaker 1: actually became friends. But she we had this mock election,

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Speaker 1: and she called Jimmy Carter a communist and said that

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Speaker 1: he had destroyed America. And in our family, we grew

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Speaker 1: up watching morning news, we watched evening news like we

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Speaker 1: were steeped in politics. Not in a overwhelming way, but

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Speaker 1: it was what was playing. And when she called him

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Speaker 1: a communist, I told her to take it back. She wouldn't.

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Speaker 1: I challenged her to defend her accusations. I told her

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Speaker 1: that that Ronald Reagan was a fascist because I heard

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Speaker 1: that terminology used as well, and she threw a book

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Speaker 1: at me. I also, I'm the second of six kids.

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Speaker 1: So I was raised to understand that if you were

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Speaker 1: ever in an you know, in a confrontation, you should

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Speaker 1: use overwhelming force to end it as quickly as possible.

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Speaker 1: She threw a book, I shoved a desk atter. I

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Speaker 1: won harder lost, but you know I stood in my

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Speaker 1: I just threw in my ground. Wow, you really defended

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Speaker 1: yourself and and were you that sort of committed and

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Speaker 1: passionate throughout your childhood? I was? I mean, I'm not.

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Speaker 1: I am not a high emotion person, but I am

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Speaker 1: very goal oriented. I had four younger siblings and an

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Speaker 1: older sister who was just incredibly kind to all of us.

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Speaker 1: She was three years older than I am. But in

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Speaker 1: our family, we were raised to believe that you're responsible

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Speaker 1: for those who were weak, who are vulnerable, who are

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Speaker 1: related to you. But we were also raised to have

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Speaker 1: strong opinions, not necessarily to be confrontational, but to believe.

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Speaker 1: And if you believed something, you should know why you

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Speaker 1: believed it. Yeah. Well, you also credit your parents with

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Speaker 1: getting you where you are. Did the lessons that you

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Speaker 1: learned in your upbringing or the insight about your parents

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Speaker 1: that they help you despite all the obstacles that they faced.

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Speaker 1: So my parents when I was growing up, my mom

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Speaker 1: and dad were both um. They work, They were working people.

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Speaker 1: My mom was a college librarian. My dad was a

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Speaker 1: shipyard worker. My father was dyslexic, and even though he

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Speaker 1: had a college degree and is one of the smartest

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Speaker 1: people I've ever met, because he couldn't read functionally until

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Speaker 1: he was in his thirties, he couldn't get a job

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Speaker 1: in an office. And so this bright man with this

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Speaker 1: incredible mind, because he could not read and interact in

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Speaker 1: the way they expected, he worked in a shipyard, not

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Speaker 1: really using his mind, more using his strength. My dad

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Speaker 1: really was the first person who taught us about feminism,

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Speaker 1: because he believed that gender did not prescribe or circumscribe

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Speaker 1: what we were capable of. My mom was a college

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Speaker 1: librarian who sometimes made less money than the janitor who

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Speaker 1: cleaned the college, and she was raising six children with

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Speaker 1: my father. They were always struggling, but they always found

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Speaker 1: time and the impetus to make certain that our world

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Speaker 1: was broader than just the little house we lived in

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Speaker 1: on South Street. And so as a child, what I

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Speaker 1: internalized was this deep commitment to justice, a commitment to engagement.

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Speaker 1: The fact that our circumstances were never going to constrain

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Speaker 1: our capacity and our futures. And when they became ministers

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Speaker 1: I was fifteen. I mean they preached us our whole lives,

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Speaker 1: but they formalized that when they were forty. And when

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Speaker 1: they became ministers. My parents, who had raised us to

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Speaker 1: believe the education was so critical, instead of simply saying, well,

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Speaker 1: we are we have this calling, they applied to graduate

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Speaker 1: school and at the age of forty were both admitted

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Speaker 1: to Emory University. Moved us to Georgia because they wanted

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Speaker 1: us to watch them not only meet their calling, but

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Speaker 1: practice what they preached, which is that if you're going

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Speaker 1: to serve others, you've got to know what you're talking about.

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Speaker 1: And even though they had both grown up in the church,

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Speaker 1: they knew they needed their edition of the Seminary to

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Speaker 1: make it stronger and to help them guide their parishioners.

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Speaker 1: And so what I learned from my family was just

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Speaker 1: this constant live what you say from what my parents did.

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Speaker 1: And I mean they had struggles and challenges, but they

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Speaker 1: never allowed those things to overwhelm them, including poverty, including discrimination.

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Speaker 1: You're listening to back to Biz with Katie and Bows.

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Speaker 1: When we come back, Stacy Abram shares what we can

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Speaker 1: do now to ensure a safe and fair election this November.

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Speaker 1: dot ai. That's O T T E R dot Ai.

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Speaker 1: Let's return to our conversation with Stacy Abrams. It's interesting

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Speaker 1: to me that in your book you said thinking back

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Speaker 1: to your election back in that it still made you

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Speaker 1: angry today, by the way, makes me angry to f y,

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Speaker 1: I makes me angry to right. All of us are angry. Um.

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Speaker 1: And even though you know you must have been livid,

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Speaker 1: uh when and excuse my language because you know we

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Speaker 1: both come from preacher parents, but I'm just gonna have

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Speaker 1: to say it. The ship hit the fan. You know

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Speaker 1: language is important, Okay, exactly? Um? But how how, how

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Speaker 1: how can Georgia be back in this place? Again quite

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Speaker 1: frankly the entire nation, but obviously Georgia where you are.

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Speaker 1: How can it be back in this in this place again,

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Speaker 1: what do you think happened and what is happening? What

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Speaker 1: happened in was the culmination of almost a decade of

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Speaker 1: voter suppression architecture, and the new Secretary State had no

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Speaker 1: interest in dismantling it. We filed a lawsuit in two

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Speaker 1: thousand and nineteen that articulated almost every one of the

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Speaker 1: challenges that people saw in real time last Tuesday. But

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Speaker 1: part of the issue was that when we told our story,

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Speaker 1: a lot of folks didn't believe us. They thought that

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Speaker 1: I was just, you know, espousing salary grapes, that I

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Speaker 1: was trying to explain away the result. And as I've

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Speaker 1: always said, I didn't contest the outcome of the election.

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Speaker 1: I could have filed a contest, I could have tried

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Speaker 1: to relitigate it, and I may or may not have

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Speaker 1: been successful. But the point for me in what I

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Speaker 1: didn't concede was to say that it's not about one

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Speaker 1: politician or one race. This is about an infrastructure that's

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Speaker 1: supposed to serve citizens, and it's not. It is stealing

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Speaker 1: their voices and denying their choices, and that is wrong.

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Speaker 1: But the problem we had was that there were tiny fixes.

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Speaker 1: I think galvanized out of either embarrassment or the lawsuits

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Speaker 1: we filed. But there was no structural determination that what

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Speaker 1: was what was a rye needed to be fixed until

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Speaker 1: it started hurting people other than the folks that wanted

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Speaker 1: to vote for me. What was so devastating on Tuesday

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Speaker 1: was that it showed the broken machinery of democracy can

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Speaker 1: spread everywhere. It's not just those you target. When you

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Speaker 1: break the machinery, you break it for everyone. And that's

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Speaker 1: why Republicans were standing in long lines. The Speaker of

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Speaker 1: the House, a conservative Republican, He had multiple counties in

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Speaker 1: his district that had to get court orders to extend

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Speaker 1: the lines because of the incompetence and the deliberate indifference

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Speaker 1: of the Secretary of State. You can't fix a problem

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Speaker 1: you don't acknowledge. We shake our heads at the terrible

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Speaker 1: nous of our elections, We shake our heads at the

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Speaker 1: stories of disentranchisement and voter suppression. But as politicians, we

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Speaker 1: were taught you don't say anything about it, because if

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Speaker 1: you do, you'll depress the turnout and people won't trust

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Speaker 1: the system. My point is, how can you trust a

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Speaker 1: system that doesn't trust you, that doesn't trust that your

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Speaker 1: citizenship is a sufficient reason for you to be able

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Speaker 1: to participate, which is why my response was not to concede.

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Speaker 1: I conceded the I acknowledge the legal sufficiency, but I

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Speaker 1: will not concede that the system is right. And what

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Speaker 1: I'm proud of is the fact that in this election cycle,

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Speaker 1: every single major candidate for the Democratic nomination talked about

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Speaker 1: voter suppression, talked about the attacks on our democracy. We

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Speaker 1: didn't simply whisper it in corners, but we called it aloud,

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Speaker 1: and that's allowing people to finally see it's not their fault.

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Speaker 1: Because the last piece I'll say is this voter suppression

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Speaker 1: is the most insidious when it convinces you that you're

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Speaker 1: the problem, that you should have known, you should have done.

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Speaker 1: You were in a long line because you didn't think

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Speaker 1: about it, or because people are so enthusiastic. No, you're

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Speaker 1: in a long line because people under people in charge,

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Speaker 1: under resourced your precinct and did not value your vote.

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Speaker 1: And that is not right. I still can't get over

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Speaker 1: the fact Brian Kent, your opponent, ultimately declared the winner,

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Speaker 1: was the Secretary of State and in charge of the

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Speaker 1: electoral process. How messed up? Is that I just don't

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Speaker 1: get it. How can that be? I I gave a

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Speaker 1: talk to a group of foreign ministers UM at an

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Speaker 1: event last year, and when I described what happened, the

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Speaker 1: just look of just people were aghast. They were absolutely stunned.

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Speaker 1: Then the United States, the person who is in charge

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Speaker 1: of the elections got to be the contestant, the referee,

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Speaker 1: and the scorekeeper. It's like Tom Brady being allowed to

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Speaker 1: be the rest at his own super Bowl. He gets

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Speaker 1: to inflate the bole. I don't maybe don't want to

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Speaker 1: go down that, Maybe don't go into that, but it

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Speaker 1: is it is. It is that grotesque that we would

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Speaker 1: have a system that permitted the person responsible for making

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Speaker 1: sure people could vote, we allowed him to cherry pick

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Speaker 1: who would get to vote. And the reality is even

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Speaker 1: Chris Kobak, who has been cited by federal courts for

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Speaker 1: his aggressive voter suppression, even he had the grace to

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Speaker 1: step down and not oversee his own election, has that

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Speaker 1: changed at all? I mean, is there any hope that

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Speaker 1: there is going to be some forward movement? My belief

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Speaker 1: is that we have to set a baseline that says,

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Speaker 1: no matter where you live in America. This is the

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Speaker 1: basic guarantee of democracy in our elections. Number one, that

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Speaker 1: you can register and stay on the roles in America,

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Speaker 1: so automatic registration and then same day registration. We are

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Speaker 1: one of the few industrialized, democratized nations that puts the

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Speaker 1: responsibility on every single person to learn the election laws

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Speaker 1: of the state they move into. I'm a lawyer, I'm

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Speaker 1: a well trained lawyer. You're a Yale lawyer. I have

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Speaker 1: to spend a lot of time writing a book, and

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Speaker 1: I still can't tell you all the rules. And so

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Speaker 1: we need that baseline. The Heroes Act, which is currently

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Speaker 1: pending before the Senate passed the House bipartisan It says

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Speaker 1: we have to invest three point six billion dollars into

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Speaker 1: making sure our elections happen in November, because states are

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Speaker 1: going to see as we saw in Georgia, as we

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Speaker 1: saw in Pennsylvania, in Maryland, in South Carolina and North

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Speaker 1: and Nevada, we are seeing a massive increase in the

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Speaker 1: use of absentee ballots because people don't want to die. Uh.

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Speaker 1: The states are hemorrhaging money because of quarantine, because of

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Speaker 1: shelter in place. The federal government's purpose is that it's

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Speaker 1: supposed to be the backstop in the moment of crisis

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Speaker 1: to assist our states and counties and our local elections officials.

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Speaker 1: So give them the money so they can scale the elections.

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Speaker 1: But the reason this matters is that it also puts

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Speaker 1: in place guardrails that says, at least for the pandemic,

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Speaker 1: everyone who wants to vote by mail can do so

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Speaker 1: you don't have to have an excuse. Alabama, for example,

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Speaker 1: says that you you must either be disabled over sixty five,

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Speaker 1: but having covid being exposed to covid ien is not

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Speaker 1: a valid excuse. The Attorney General and the governor of

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Speaker 1: Texas are fighting tooth and nail to make sure everyone

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Speaker 1: has to vote in person. And let's not forget that

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Speaker 1: in their February primary they'd shut down more than four

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Speaker 1: hundred precincts, which led to eight our lines in the

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Speaker 1: Democratic presidential primary. The reason they don't want absentee ballots

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Speaker 1: is that they don't want people to vote. And people

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Speaker 1: remember those lines from February, and if they get away

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Speaker 1: with it, you will see the competitive races and Texas

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Speaker 1: suddenly fall into the hands of Republicans because voters are

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Speaker 1: scared out of voting. M hm, well, speaking of fear,

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Speaker 1: I mean, I'm very nervous about November, and maybe very

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Speaker 1: nervous is putting it lightly. I'm sure given all you said,

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Speaker 1: you might have some fears as well. Um, what are

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Speaker 1: your your concerns about November? So the reason I wrote

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Speaker 1: Our Time Is Now is to articulate the fears, which

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Speaker 1: is that voter suppression is real, it's operational, and its

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Speaker 1: strongest protection is the ignorance of the voter. If you

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Speaker 1: don't know what you're facing, you can't beat it. And

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Speaker 1: so I wanted to write it down and really explain

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Speaker 1: so that people could understand that it's not you. Voter

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Speaker 1: suppression is the most effective when it convinces us it's

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Speaker 1: not worth five eating, because it's so inevitable that the

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Speaker 1: harm is done. I don't want people to be defeated.

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Speaker 1: I want them to be angry. I want them to

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Speaker 1: be energized. I want them to say, you're not gonna

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Speaker 1: take my vote for me. I may not want to

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Speaker 1: use it, but it's gonna be my choice, not yours.

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Speaker 1: But my hope is born of the fact that not

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Speaker 1: not only did I write this book, but I launched

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Speaker 1: an organization called Fair Fight that's working in eighteen states,

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Speaker 1: working to make certain that we can guarantee access to

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Speaker 1: the ballot and we can't guarantee it, but we can

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Speaker 1: mitigate the harm of voter suppression. We can increase the

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Speaker 1: number of volunteers willing to help, we can provide hotlines,

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Speaker 1: we can work in concert with those who are filing

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Speaker 1: lawsuits to knock down some of these barriers. And so

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Speaker 1: my hopefulness comes from the fact that we now that

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Speaker 1: we know what's happening, Now that we know what the

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Speaker 1: Republicans intend to do with their voter intimidation tactics, Now

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Speaker 1: that we understand that they're going to spend sixty million

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Speaker 1: dollars and raise an army of fifty thousand whole observers

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Speaker 1: to intimidate voters of color. Now that we know that

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Speaker 1: we can fight back. Because in every other election, we

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Speaker 1: just hope that people would follow the Marquis of Queensbury rules,

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Speaker 1: and if they didn't then we'd sue. We can't wait

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Speaker 1: for the harm to happen. We've got to interfere and

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Speaker 1: interceed now. And I'm proud of the fact that we're

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Speaker 1: part of a national coalition of organizations dedicated to expanding

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Speaker 1: access to the right to vote and protecting it from mayor.

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Speaker 1: You're listening to Back to Biz with Katie and Bows.

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Speaker 1: When we come back, Stacy Abrams on how we can

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Speaker 1: fix our policing problem. Here's another podcast you should add

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Speaker 1: recognize you. He hates me? Hates me? Do you want

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Speaker 1: career builder dot com. Welcome back to Back to Biz

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Speaker 1: with Katie and Bows. We're talking with Stacey Abram's inspiring activists,

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Speaker 1: politician and author. Let's get back to our conversation. We're

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Speaker 1: talking about voter suppression and the elections and all of this,

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Speaker 1: but and COVID and all kinds of things. But it's

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Speaker 1: also with the additional stories, uh that continue, I mean,

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Speaker 1: thirty years ago, the Rodney King verdict unleashed you know

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Speaker 1: more unrest, right, I mean you're you're an activist of course,

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Speaker 1: and you protested. Then how are you viewing this moment

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Speaker 1: of our unrest? I I don't call it deja vous,

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Speaker 1: but it is the repeat of history that we've always

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Speaker 1: been warned about. You know, we know the history will

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Speaker 1: repeat itself. The question is what do we do when

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Speaker 1: it comes again? And what happened in nine two is

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Speaker 1: eerily similar to what's happening today. You had a man

429
00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:18,600
Speaker 1: who faced recorded and recorded episode of police brutality, and

430
00:25:19,119 --> 00:25:23,679
Speaker 1: what set off the demonstrations was the exoneration of that officer,

431
00:25:23,800 --> 00:25:27,080
Speaker 1: the refusal to take action in a way that was meaningful.

432
00:25:27,320 --> 00:25:31,160
Speaker 1: In fact, it was the tacit acceptance that this black

433
00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:34,280
Speaker 1: man deserves to be beaten because of something they couldn't

434
00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:37,600
Speaker 1: have possibly known at that moment when they used their

435
00:25:37,640 --> 00:25:41,840
Speaker 1: force to harm him. It was the dehumanization of blackness

436
00:25:42,280 --> 00:25:43,919
Speaker 1: that we saw play out there, and it's what we

437
00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:47,720
Speaker 1: see today. But here's the difference in when it happened,

438
00:25:48,119 --> 00:25:52,440
Speaker 1: we heard lots of chiding, lots of dismissal of the concerns.

439
00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:55,800
Speaker 1: You had a few promises, but in an election year

440
00:25:56,200 --> 00:25:59,879
Speaker 1: for president, you did not hear the president the nomin

441
00:26:01,359 --> 00:26:03,800
Speaker 1: prepare himself and declare that he was going to do

442
00:26:03,880 --> 00:26:06,600
Speaker 1: something about it. That didn't happen. And I have a

443
00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:09,760
Speaker 1: great deal of respect for um President Clinton and what

444
00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:12,000
Speaker 1: he was able to do. But that was a failure,

445
00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:16,080
Speaker 1: and that was a missed opportunity that cemented for another

446
00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:20,520
Speaker 1: generation the legitimacy of that behavior. What we see in

447
00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:26,439
Speaker 1: this moment is a more instant response, of actual solution building,

448
00:26:26,760 --> 00:26:29,760
Speaker 1: of actual attempts to address the challenge. And what is

449
00:26:29,800 --> 00:26:33,560
Speaker 1: even more important is the persistence of those protesters. We

450
00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:35,560
Speaker 1: protested for a few days, and I was proud of

451
00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:37,720
Speaker 1: those protests. I was proud of the work I did

452
00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:40,240
Speaker 1: through the student organizations I was a part of. I

453
00:26:40,280 --> 00:26:43,080
Speaker 1: tried to tackle the issue of gang violence, of youth poverty.

454
00:26:43,359 --> 00:26:46,439
Speaker 1: I did a lot of my work, but I was

455
00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:49,200
Speaker 1: one person who was at the very bottom of any

456
00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:51,600
Speaker 1: totem polar power. In fact, I was like the sand

457
00:26:52,080 --> 00:26:55,440
Speaker 1: underneath it. We got kicked around. But what we see

458
00:26:55,480 --> 00:27:00,320
Speaker 1: today is that the protesters are actually driving change. When

459
00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:03,640
Speaker 1: Donald Trump came out yesterday with his you know, very

460
00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:08,360
Speaker 1: merely police reform, which basically was He's going to create

461
00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:11,919
Speaker 1: an Excel spreadsheet to try to solve the problem, even

462
00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:16,200
Speaker 1: that is a it's an analysis that says I recognize

463
00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:18,320
Speaker 1: that this is an issue and that I'm going to

464
00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:21,119
Speaker 1: be held accountable. But what's even more important to me

465
00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:24,320
Speaker 1: is that Joe Biden has met this moment almost every

466
00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:28,520
Speaker 1: single day by trying to offer both listening and solutions.

467
00:27:29,200 --> 00:27:31,400
Speaker 1: That we have people at every level of government who

468
00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:35,000
Speaker 1: are engaged and reacting, And that's what's so important, because

469
00:27:35,440 --> 00:27:39,320
Speaker 1: we can't disconnect this moment from voting. Voting is the

470
00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:42,600
Speaker 1: medicine we take to cure the disease of systemic racism,

471
00:27:42,800 --> 00:27:46,000
Speaker 1: of systemic injustice, the police brutality, because we're gonna be

472
00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:49,160
Speaker 1: electing local officials, mayors who are gonna be hiring these

473
00:27:49,160 --> 00:27:52,440
Speaker 1: police chiefs. We're gonna be electing the state legislators who

474
00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:55,639
Speaker 1: can finally start to mitigate some of these things like

475
00:27:55,680 --> 00:27:58,000
Speaker 1: the citizen arrest laws that allowed a mod Arebrey to

476
00:27:58,040 --> 00:28:01,200
Speaker 1: be murdered. And we're gonna be electing senators and congressmen

477
00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:04,000
Speaker 1: and women who can make the decision that qualified immunity

478
00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:07,959
Speaker 1: is wrong and for the first time take it back

479
00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:10,240
Speaker 1: and say that you have to be held accountable, that

480
00:28:10,320 --> 00:28:13,040
Speaker 1: you cannot murder citizens under the color of saying that

481
00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:15,639
Speaker 1: you were just doing your job. Those are things that

482
00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:18,240
Speaker 1: can happen in this moment that we never had a

483
00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:21,440
Speaker 1: conversation about before and it all has to do with voting.

484
00:28:21,640 --> 00:28:26,359
Speaker 1: And you know the sustained crescendo of these protests Stacy had,

485
00:28:26,560 --> 00:28:30,720
Speaker 1: it's been so powerful, and you're right, people are trying

486
00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:35,160
Speaker 1: to figure out real solutions. But Joe Biden himself, for example,

487
00:28:35,280 --> 00:28:39,040
Speaker 1: said he was against defunding police, which I think needs

488
00:28:39,040 --> 00:28:42,240
Speaker 1: a rebranding. To be honest with you, because defunding, I

489
00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:45,040
Speaker 1: think is quite misleading. I think it really means to

490
00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:48,480
Speaker 1: my understanding and correct me if I'm wrong, Please, is

491
00:28:48,600 --> 00:28:53,760
Speaker 1: reallocating resources and re examining these huge budgets that go

492
00:28:53,840 --> 00:28:58,000
Speaker 1: into police departments all over the country. Um, where do

493
00:28:58,080 --> 00:29:03,440
Speaker 1: you stand on defunding police, abolishing police, reforming police? So,

494
00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:07,480
Speaker 1: defund the police is a phrase that is being used

495
00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:11,120
Speaker 1: by activists as their rally and cry, and as someone

496
00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:13,640
Speaker 1: who was an activist, I do not feel it is

497
00:29:13,680 --> 00:29:17,080
Speaker 1: my place to critique the language that they used to

498
00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:20,680
Speaker 1: describe the urgency, the exigency, and the anguish that they feel.

499
00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:24,000
Speaker 1: As someone who is in policy making, it's my responsibility

500
00:29:24,040 --> 00:29:27,160
Speaker 1: to understand the substance of that vision, and I describe

501
00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:30,480
Speaker 1: it for myself as reformation and transformation. We have to

502
00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:36,120
Speaker 1: reform the behaviors and practices that oversee the the distribution

503
00:29:36,520 --> 00:29:39,320
Speaker 1: of public safety in our society. That doesn't permit Ray

504
00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:42,040
Speaker 1: Shard Brooks to be murdered because he stole a taser.

505
00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:44,640
Speaker 1: That is what we need to see. We need no

506
00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:47,720
Speaker 1: knock warrants to be outlawed so that Brianna Taylor does

507
00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:50,400
Speaker 1: not that she becomes the last black woman to die

508
00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:52,760
Speaker 1: in her bed because they didn't have to announce that

509
00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:55,520
Speaker 1: they had made a mistake. So there's that first piece.

510
00:29:55,560 --> 00:29:58,680
Speaker 1: There's the reformation of practices and policies, and then to

511
00:29:58,720 --> 00:30:01,320
Speaker 1: your point, it is the trans formation of how we

512
00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:05,280
Speaker 1: fund society, how much money we put into what we

513
00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:08,840
Speaker 1: call policing versus what we should call public safety, because

514
00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:11,440
Speaker 1: part of public safety is making the safe, making the

515
00:30:11,440 --> 00:30:14,040
Speaker 1: public safe to be who they are and to give

516
00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:16,640
Speaker 1: them opportunity to thrive, and that means investing in education

517
00:30:16,920 --> 00:30:20,880
Speaker 1: and health care and community diversion programs and community building programs.

518
00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:23,000
Speaker 1: It's also about making sure people can bank, because if

519
00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:25,120
Speaker 1: you're in a black community, you're the least likely to

520
00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:28,480
Speaker 1: have access to banking. It's making certain that the reallocation

521
00:30:28,520 --> 00:30:32,000
Speaker 1: of resources speak to our values and that the budget

522
00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:34,760
Speaker 1: decisions that we make are actually the right ones. And

523
00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:37,880
Speaker 1: if that means taking some money away from programs that

524
00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:41,280
Speaker 1: militarize the police and putting those dollars instead and making

525
00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:44,680
Speaker 1: sure that kids have full and whole education, then I'm

526
00:30:44,760 --> 00:30:47,760
Speaker 1: absolutely a fan of that transformation. But what I don't

527
00:30:47,800 --> 00:30:50,040
Speaker 1: want to see get caught up in is this false

528
00:30:50,120 --> 00:30:53,360
Speaker 1: dynamic that says that it's one or the other, that

529
00:30:53,440 --> 00:30:55,800
Speaker 1: you can either reform or you can transform. It is

530
00:30:55,840 --> 00:30:59,360
Speaker 1: a both and conversation, and it's a both and imperative.

531
00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:02,239
Speaker 1: Do you think that it might hurt the Democrats at

532
00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:05,920
Speaker 1: all in the fall if some of these things aren't

533
00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:11,000
Speaker 1: clearly enumerated and kind of explain. Because I hear you

534
00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:15,080
Speaker 1: about not questioning language, but let's face it. You know

535
00:31:15,320 --> 00:31:19,560
Speaker 1: language can be misleading and people can become misguided, and

536
00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:23,000
Speaker 1: that's one thing I wonder about. I'm not saying you

537
00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:25,479
Speaker 1: don't question language. I'm saying I'm not going to question

538
00:31:25,520 --> 00:31:29,640
Speaker 1: the rallying prize used by the activist because I remind

539
00:31:29,680 --> 00:31:32,640
Speaker 1: folks that the Tea Party had some fairly strong invective

540
00:31:33,080 --> 00:31:36,360
Speaker 1: and some fairly outlandish ideas in two thousand ten, and

541
00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:40,320
Speaker 1: it worked. They were able to take over Congress. And

542
00:31:40,360 --> 00:31:44,000
Speaker 1: so this notion, if what galvanizes people to action, what

543
00:31:44,160 --> 00:31:46,240
Speaker 1: drives them to the polls is the fact that they

544
00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:49,080
Speaker 1: believe that they could hire people to accomplish their vision.

545
00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:51,280
Speaker 1: I don't think people care what you call it. They

546
00:31:51,320 --> 00:31:53,760
Speaker 1: care what you do. And what Democrats have to be

547
00:31:53,800 --> 00:31:56,160
Speaker 1: willing to do is speak to the policies they are

548
00:31:56,200 --> 00:31:59,200
Speaker 1: willing to fight for. If they don't like the language

549
00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:02,600
Speaker 1: that's used to describe but within the activist community, I

550
00:32:02,600 --> 00:32:04,640
Speaker 1: I don't. I don't hold them accountable for that. But

551
00:32:04,720 --> 00:32:06,640
Speaker 1: I do think we have to hold them accountable for

552
00:32:06,680 --> 00:32:09,120
Speaker 1: the policies they propose and for how they intend to

553
00:32:09,120 --> 00:32:11,680
Speaker 1: meet this moment. You know what say, See, let me

554
00:32:11,680 --> 00:32:17,840
Speaker 1: tell you something. Should you be the vice president candidate,

555
00:32:18,320 --> 00:32:22,080
Speaker 1: I would vote for you. So can we can we

556
00:32:22,080 --> 00:32:24,920
Speaker 1: talk about that a little bit, because obviously it's it's

557
00:32:24,960 --> 00:32:28,840
Speaker 1: refreshing to think of you in that role. Can you

558
00:32:28,880 --> 00:32:33,400
Speaker 1: give us your pitch for for the job? Well, I

559
00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:35,960
Speaker 1: want to be clear, you can't pitch for the job

560
00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:39,120
Speaker 1: of VP. That is Joe Biden's decision. What I've said

561
00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:43,320
Speaker 1: consistently since March of is that if called, I will answer,

562
00:32:43,680 --> 00:32:47,280
Speaker 1: and when asked if I'm qualified, I say, absolutely I am,

563
00:32:47,360 --> 00:32:52,280
Speaker 1: and that's my responsibility. But it's our responsibility to ensure

564
00:32:52,320 --> 00:32:56,120
Speaker 1: that no matter who he picks, that that person, that

565
00:32:56,160 --> 00:33:00,720
Speaker 1: woman is going to be supported in her work. Because

566
00:33:00,960 --> 00:33:03,400
Speaker 1: the job of the vice president is to be the

567
00:33:03,480 --> 00:33:06,800
Speaker 1: chief lieutenant to the President of the United States to

568
00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:10,800
Speaker 1: living out that vision, I believe that we can tackle

569
00:33:10,880 --> 00:33:15,240
Speaker 1: these challenges. I have a whole section dedicate chapter dedicated

570
00:33:15,280 --> 00:33:17,520
Speaker 1: to the census, because that's how we get the economic

571
00:33:17,520 --> 00:33:20,120
Speaker 1: and political power we need and we so often ignore.

572
00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:23,560
Speaker 1: I have a whole section dedicated to identity politics because

573
00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:25,720
Speaker 1: I Am not going to let anyone tell me that

574
00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:28,800
Speaker 1: my experiences as a black woman do not have relevance

575
00:33:28,800 --> 00:33:31,200
Speaker 1: and how I make selections about for whom I'm going

576
00:33:31,240 --> 00:33:34,480
Speaker 1: to vote. And just as we saw yesterday or I

577
00:33:34,520 --> 00:33:36,880
Speaker 1: think it was two days ago with the Supreme Court decision,

578
00:33:37,320 --> 00:33:40,640
Speaker 1: identity matters. It tells us who we are and who

579
00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:43,080
Speaker 1: we can become, and it tells us about the barriers

580
00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:45,080
Speaker 1: to success. And the fact that it took till two

581
00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:47,640
Speaker 1: thousand and twenty for the voting for the Civil Rights

582
00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:51,320
Speaker 1: Act of nineteen sixty four to acknowledge the sexual orientation

583
00:33:51,360 --> 00:33:54,560
Speaker 1: and gender identity deserve protection is a perfect example of

584
00:33:54,560 --> 00:33:58,400
Speaker 1: why identity politics matter. So my belief is that we

585
00:33:58,520 --> 00:34:00,800
Speaker 1: can win if we fall all of the playbook that

586
00:34:00,840 --> 00:34:04,160
Speaker 1: says we treat every voter, every American, every person in

587
00:34:04,160 --> 00:34:08,160
Speaker 1: our country as human having value and worth, and if

588
00:34:08,160 --> 00:34:10,600
Speaker 1: we're willing to invest in their success. And that's what

589
00:34:10,680 --> 00:34:13,720
Speaker 1: I hope the next Vice president will bring to the ticket,

590
00:34:14,040 --> 00:34:16,439
Speaker 1: and it's why I'm so excited to be a part

591
00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:19,000
Speaker 1: of the conversation. But I know it's Joe Biden's decision.

592
00:34:19,719 --> 00:34:24,720
Speaker 1: How important is it to you symbolically, policy wise, taking

593
00:34:24,760 --> 00:34:28,680
Speaker 1: into account everything that it is a person of color

594
00:34:29,040 --> 00:34:32,960
Speaker 1: in that role. I've said this before. I think we

595
00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:37,880
Speaker 1: cannot presume to know what Joe Biden needs as a

596
00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:41,520
Speaker 1: partner in this campaign or in his administration, because about

597
00:34:41,719 --> 00:34:45,839
Speaker 1: the country needs no. No, I'm getting it. He's he's

598
00:34:45,840 --> 00:34:49,440
Speaker 1: the only person who has held this job, and I

599
00:34:49,480 --> 00:34:52,959
Speaker 1: trust him to make the decision that's right. I think

600
00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:55,279
Speaker 1: that having a woman of color as his running mate

601
00:34:55,320 --> 00:34:59,080
Speaker 1: is an incredibly powerful signal that shows that the face

602
00:34:59,120 --> 00:35:01,920
Speaker 1: of leadership can can continue to evolve and transform and

603
00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:04,759
Speaker 1: include more people. But I do not believe that Joe

604
00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:08,680
Speaker 1: Biden will take any community for granted, and if his

605
00:35:08,840 --> 00:35:11,279
Speaker 1: choice is not the choice I would have made, I

606
00:35:11,320 --> 00:35:14,080
Speaker 1: am not going to disparage that choice because we are

607
00:35:14,120 --> 00:35:17,160
Speaker 1: making advances in every single moment, including the fact that

608
00:35:17,200 --> 00:35:20,640
Speaker 1: he is willing to make a woman his vice presidential nominee.

609
00:35:20,960 --> 00:35:22,839
Speaker 1: But more than that, I want to know what the

610
00:35:22,880 --> 00:35:25,080
Speaker 1: president of the United States intends to do about my

611
00:35:25,160 --> 00:35:28,160
Speaker 1: community and about the issues that matter to me. And

612
00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:31,080
Speaker 1: that's got to be the fundamental point that I look at.

613
00:35:31,520 --> 00:35:34,000
Speaker 1: That said, as I said before, I think it's an

614
00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:35,640
Speaker 1: important signal, and I think it could be a very

615
00:35:35,680 --> 00:35:39,279
Speaker 1: critical and credible way to talk about the future of

616
00:35:39,280 --> 00:35:43,560
Speaker 1: our nation. Stacy Abrahams, it's such a pleasure to just

617
00:35:43,760 --> 00:35:47,440
Speaker 1: have this conversation with you and to hear your point

618
00:35:47,440 --> 00:35:52,560
Speaker 1: of view so brilliantly stated in every way. Uh, both

619
00:35:52,600 --> 00:35:56,120
Speaker 1: Bose and I admire you deeply and I can't thank

620
00:35:56,120 --> 00:35:59,560
Speaker 1: you enough for for being on our podcast. Thank you

621
00:35:59,640 --> 00:36:03,160
Speaker 1: so much. Thank you, And as we began, Live Long

622
00:36:03,239 --> 00:36:12,520
Speaker 1: and prosper thank you, thank you. Yes we will. I'm

623
00:36:12,560 --> 00:36:15,000
Speaker 1: really glad we had that conversation, and I feel very

624
00:36:15,120 --> 00:36:18,600
Speaker 1: energized and motivated to do what I can to help

625
00:36:18,680 --> 00:36:21,520
Speaker 1: get out the vote and make sure that everybody has

626
00:36:21,560 --> 00:36:25,840
Speaker 1: an opportunity to have their voices heard. Agreed. Agreed couldn't

627
00:36:25,840 --> 00:36:28,480
Speaker 1: be more of a perfect title. Right, Our time is now.

628
00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:31,800
Speaker 1: That's right, that's the title of Stacy Abram's new book.

629
00:36:34,200 --> 00:36:36,320
Speaker 1: That does it. For this episode of Back to Biz

630
00:36:36,360 --> 00:36:38,960
Speaker 1: with Kadie and Bows Now, if you're not already, you

631
00:36:39,000 --> 00:36:42,560
Speaker 1: can subscribe to the podcast on the I Heart Radio app,

632
00:36:42,840 --> 00:36:46,320
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows

633
00:36:46,760 --> 00:36:50,960
Speaker 1: and a personal plea for me and Bows, please subscribe

634
00:36:50,960 --> 00:36:53,839
Speaker 1: to our podcast and you can find more about all

635
00:36:53,880 --> 00:36:56,040
Speaker 1: the cool people were talking to, as well as our

636
00:36:56,080 --> 00:36:59,720
Speaker 1: favorite moments from these episodes on our Instagram feeds and stories.

637
00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:03,839
Speaker 1: Until next time, I'm Katie Couric and I'm Bozma St.

638
00:37:03,920 --> 00:37:06,800
Speaker 1: John and this is Back to Biz with Katie and Bows.

639
00:37:07,160 --> 00:37:18,440
Speaker 1: Thank you all so much for listening. Back to Biz

640
00:37:18,480 --> 00:37:20,680
Speaker 1: with Katie and Bows is a production of I Heart

641
00:37:20,760 --> 00:37:24,600
Speaker 1: Radio and Katie Currik Media. The executive producers are Katie Currik,

642
00:37:24,880 --> 00:37:28,640
Speaker 1: Bozma St John, and Courtney Litz. The supervising producer is

643
00:37:28,719 --> 00:37:33,480
Speaker 1: Lauren Hansen. The associate producers are Derek Clements, Eliza Costas,

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Speaker 1: and Emily Pinto, Editing by Derrek Clements and Lauren Hansen,

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Speaker 1: Mixing by Derrek Clements. Special thanks to Adriana Fasio. For

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Speaker 1: more information about today's episode, go to Katie kirk dot com.

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Speaker 1: You can also follow Katie Kurik and Bozma st John

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Speaker 1: on Twitter and Instagram. For more podcasts from my Heart Radio,

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Speaker 1: visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever

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Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows. Whether you're a student

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Speaker 1: looking for a new career, or a building professional who

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