1 00:00:08,840 --> 00:00:13,400 Speaker 1: Welcome to Strictly Business, Variety's weekly podcast featuring conversations with 2 00:00:13,480 --> 00:00:17,599 Speaker 1: industry leaders about the business of media and entertainment. I'm 3 00:00:17,640 --> 00:00:21,520 Speaker 1: Cynthia Littleton, co editor in chief of Variety Today. My 4 00:00:21,600 --> 00:00:26,319 Speaker 1: guest is Charles Roban, head of Atlas Entertainment. Charles, or Chuck, 5 00:00:26,360 --> 00:00:28,800 Speaker 1: as he's widely known in the industry, has been one 6 00:00:28,800 --> 00:00:31,760 Speaker 1: of the most successful movie producers of the past few decades. 7 00:00:32,280 --> 00:00:35,360 Speaker 1: He's been the hands on in the trench's producer on 8 00:00:35,400 --> 00:00:39,640 Speaker 1: such blockbusters as the Dark Knight Trilogy, Man of Steel, 9 00:00:40,200 --> 00:00:44,800 Speaker 1: Suicide Squad, Wonder Woman one and two, and most recently, 10 00:00:45,120 --> 00:00:49,680 Speaker 1: Uncharted for Sony Pictures. Here, Roban tells the thirteen year 11 00:00:49,720 --> 00:00:53,760 Speaker 1: saga of taking Uncharted from being a Sony PlayStation game 12 00:00:54,120 --> 00:00:57,720 Speaker 1: to the start of a family friendly action adventure film 13 00:00:57,720 --> 00:01:01,959 Speaker 1: franchise for Sony. He also talks about navigating the new 14 00:01:02,000 --> 00:01:05,920 Speaker 1: waterways for traditional producers in an industry that has been 15 00:01:05,959 --> 00:01:09,200 Speaker 1: invigorated by streaming but is still not ready to say 16 00:01:09,200 --> 00:01:13,280 Speaker 1: goodbye to the multiplex just yet. My conversation with Chuck 17 00:01:13,440 --> 00:01:17,399 Speaker 1: left me thinking about what the inimitable David Woolper once 18 00:01:17,440 --> 00:01:21,080 Speaker 1: told me was the definition of a producer. Quote the 19 00:01:21,120 --> 00:01:24,280 Speaker 1: man with a dream who makes things happen. End quote. 20 00:01:25,400 --> 00:01:34,880 Speaker 1: That's all coming up after the break. Charles Roban, thank 21 00:01:34,920 --> 00:01:38,720 Speaker 1: you so much for joining me today. Congratulations on a 22 00:01:38,800 --> 00:01:42,880 Speaker 1: fantastic opening weekend. It feels good to say that. First. 23 00:01:42,959 --> 00:01:45,200 Speaker 1: Let's talk about I know it was about it. What 24 00:01:45,240 --> 00:01:47,880 Speaker 1: was it about? A ten year road to the screen 25 00:01:47,920 --> 00:01:55,840 Speaker 1: for unstarted, I think so. Um. There's a gentleman by 26 00:01:55,840 --> 00:01:59,320 Speaker 1: the name of Balance Gardner who I met when he 27 00:01:59,440 --> 00:02:02,680 Speaker 1: was a productor at MGM. We became close and when 28 00:02:02,720 --> 00:02:06,280 Speaker 1: he left MGM, he came over to Atlas and he's 29 00:02:06,320 --> 00:02:10,240 Speaker 1: been working with me as a as a producing partner, 30 00:02:10,960 --> 00:02:13,400 Speaker 1: not a partner of Atlas Entertainment, but on the movies 31 00:02:13,440 --> 00:02:17,360 Speaker 1: that he produces, my producing partner, UM, and he has 32 00:02:17,400 --> 00:02:23,800 Speaker 1: an exclusive deal here. And he brought UM Uncharted when 33 00:02:23,960 --> 00:02:27,840 Speaker 1: after he had looked at the first game, the first game, 34 00:02:28,600 --> 00:02:32,760 Speaker 1: you know, was already successful, and he said, you know, 35 00:02:32,880 --> 00:02:37,480 Speaker 1: this is a really good great I p in my opinion, 36 00:02:37,560 --> 00:02:42,320 Speaker 1: in his opinion, Uh, And it's got some great visuals 37 00:02:42,440 --> 00:02:45,280 Speaker 1: that I think make it, and the characters are fun 38 00:02:45,320 --> 00:02:48,880 Speaker 1: and I think it makes it. And this, of course 39 00:02:48,919 --> 00:02:53,000 Speaker 1: their famous last words really easy to transfer from the 40 00:02:53,040 --> 00:02:56,560 Speaker 1: game to a motion picture and I said, well, let 41 00:02:56,600 --> 00:03:00,519 Speaker 1: me see it. Showed me the game and I said, 42 00:03:01,120 --> 00:03:03,600 Speaker 1: it is cool. It's it's a fun, uh you know, 43 00:03:04,400 --> 00:03:11,320 Speaker 1: action adventure type story about you know, uh, treasure Hunters 44 00:03:11,360 --> 00:03:16,280 Speaker 1: if you will, and um. And so at that point 45 00:03:16,360 --> 00:03:20,440 Speaker 1: in time, we were under a first look deal at Sony, 46 00:03:20,680 --> 00:03:23,520 Speaker 1: and so we asked them if we could produce the movie. 47 00:03:24,040 --> 00:03:27,080 Speaker 1: And this was what year this This was fully about 48 00:03:27,120 --> 00:03:30,079 Speaker 1: ten years ago or even longer. I would say this 49 00:03:30,320 --> 00:03:32,799 Speaker 1: was in the neighborhood of two thousand eight or two 50 00:03:32,800 --> 00:03:36,640 Speaker 1: thousand nine. So yes, I was like, wow, well thirteen 51 00:03:36,720 --> 00:03:44,320 Speaker 1: years ago. But we're you know, we're passionate individuals. So 52 00:03:44,800 --> 00:03:47,320 Speaker 1: when we get our books on something, we really do 53 00:03:47,400 --> 00:03:49,080 Speaker 1: our best to try to get it made, no matter 54 00:03:49,120 --> 00:03:52,680 Speaker 1: how long it takes. And sometimes we get lucky and 55 00:03:52,720 --> 00:03:56,560 Speaker 1: the the incubation period is short, and sometimes it takes 56 00:03:56,600 --> 00:03:58,920 Speaker 1: a really a long time. And on this particular one, 57 00:03:58,960 --> 00:04:02,240 Speaker 1: I think either this one or Triple Frontier, and when 58 00:04:02,320 --> 00:04:09,600 Speaker 1: we did for Netflix, they were the longest. So so 59 00:04:09,600 --> 00:04:16,960 Speaker 1: so ironically, or you could say, serendipitously, when we called 60 00:04:18,400 --> 00:04:21,400 Speaker 1: Matt Tomack, who was one of the co heads of 61 00:04:21,480 --> 00:04:25,640 Speaker 1: production back then, with I think um, and said we 62 00:04:25,720 --> 00:04:28,800 Speaker 1: wanted to do it. He checked it out, he came 63 00:04:28,839 --> 00:04:31,560 Speaker 1: back to us, he said, you know, there's this producer's 64 00:04:31,760 --> 00:04:37,920 Speaker 1: name is Obvia Rod and he has a deal here too. Uh. 65 00:04:37,920 --> 00:04:42,240 Speaker 1: And so you know, we don't want to be Solomon 66 00:04:42,240 --> 00:04:45,679 Speaker 1: and cultivating and half because we can't. So we're actually 67 00:04:45,760 --> 00:04:47,360 Speaker 1: do something else and you guys are going to have 68 00:04:47,360 --> 00:04:51,120 Speaker 1: to do a shotgun wedding. So that's what we did. 69 00:04:52,000 --> 00:04:59,160 Speaker 1: And Obvious obviously a great guy, great partner, good friend. Um. 70 00:04:59,160 --> 00:05:02,080 Speaker 1: But you know we held hands over this long period 71 00:05:02,160 --> 00:05:06,640 Speaker 1: of time until we got it made. But that started 72 00:05:06,680 --> 00:05:13,440 Speaker 1: the our own adventure. And was there any at that 73 00:05:13,560 --> 00:05:17,800 Speaker 1: point would you say, was Sony encouraging the movie studio 74 00:05:17,920 --> 00:05:21,440 Speaker 1: and the PlayStation division to work together? Because if you 75 00:05:21,480 --> 00:05:23,440 Speaker 1: talk to them now, that is a huge part of 76 00:05:23,440 --> 00:05:27,200 Speaker 1: their strategy. Did they see that back in two thousand nine. 77 00:05:28,200 --> 00:05:31,560 Speaker 1: I think they were basically saying, look, these are two 78 00:05:31,560 --> 00:05:38,000 Speaker 1: independent divisions. If that happens, it happens, but we don't 79 00:05:38,080 --> 00:05:40,200 Speaker 1: want one to be dependent on the other. We want 80 00:05:40,240 --> 00:05:43,719 Speaker 1: them to be their own profit center. This is my interpretation. Okay, 81 00:05:43,760 --> 00:05:47,760 Speaker 1: nobody ever said that to me asked the question, but 82 00:05:47,880 --> 00:05:51,839 Speaker 1: that's my kind of interpretation. Right, they were siloed and 83 00:05:51,880 --> 00:05:56,919 Speaker 1: they still are siloed, right, but um, they definitely have 84 00:05:57,400 --> 00:06:00,760 Speaker 1: a h an agenda now to actually said, well, for 85 00:06:00,880 --> 00:06:05,560 Speaker 1: creating I P, let's and the I P has a 86 00:06:05,600 --> 00:06:09,120 Speaker 1: way of being transferred to another medium, let's do that. 87 00:06:10,279 --> 00:06:13,080 Speaker 1: So uh and and and that's fine. And you know 88 00:06:14,839 --> 00:06:19,440 Speaker 1: when that transition happened, which we really started to feel 89 00:06:19,480 --> 00:06:23,600 Speaker 1: that transition. We always kind of had a conversation with 90 00:06:25,120 --> 00:06:29,120 Speaker 1: PlayStation and Naughty Dog as we went through the different 91 00:06:29,160 --> 00:06:34,200 Speaker 1: incarnations of what we were trying to do. But but 92 00:06:34,200 --> 00:06:38,920 Speaker 1: but it became very much more um what I want 93 00:06:38,920 --> 00:06:44,159 Speaker 1: to say, you know, a much more creatively involved in 94 00:06:44,200 --> 00:06:49,080 Speaker 1: a positive way, uh, in this last incarnation that ultimately 95 00:06:49,080 --> 00:06:52,120 Speaker 1: got the movie BA mhm. Did you over that long 96 00:06:52,200 --> 00:06:55,240 Speaker 1: time did you keep tabs on the game or did 97 00:06:55,279 --> 00:06:58,600 Speaker 1: you just kind of like, oh, we always you know, 98 00:06:58,720 --> 00:07:01,640 Speaker 1: every time there was a new ang, I mean we 99 00:07:01,720 --> 00:07:05,360 Speaker 1: looked at it. Uh, you know, it was played around here. 100 00:07:05,760 --> 00:07:09,440 Speaker 1: Alex knows the games really really well. Um, and it 101 00:07:09,520 --> 00:07:12,880 Speaker 1: was very clear that that the games had a certain 102 00:07:13,000 --> 00:07:17,440 Speaker 1: premature that we wanted to use and make sure that 103 00:07:17,480 --> 00:07:23,000 Speaker 1: we captured that. Uh in the motion picture. M How 104 00:07:23,120 --> 00:07:25,360 Speaker 1: is I know I'm sure in your career you've adapted 105 00:07:25,400 --> 00:07:29,280 Speaker 1: books and that kind of books into film. How was 106 00:07:29,320 --> 00:07:33,560 Speaker 1: it adapting something that had this deep of a world 107 00:07:33,720 --> 00:07:40,920 Speaker 1: behind it into you know, a two hour or so feature. Um, 108 00:07:40,960 --> 00:07:46,080 Speaker 1: you know, there are definitely some similar challenges, particularly when 109 00:07:46,120 --> 00:07:49,040 Speaker 1: you come with a book. Uh, and maybe those and 110 00:07:49,280 --> 00:07:52,240 Speaker 1: and and also you know, I've also done graphic novels 111 00:07:52,240 --> 00:07:56,280 Speaker 1: and comic books too, and so they have those challenges too. 112 00:07:56,320 --> 00:08:03,600 Speaker 1: Because the challenges are that you want to um, you know, 113 00:08:03,800 --> 00:08:09,360 Speaker 1: honor the original i P by making certain references to 114 00:08:09,520 --> 00:08:16,480 Speaker 1: it and um, you know, honoring certain aspects of the cannon, right, 115 00:08:17,080 --> 00:08:20,520 Speaker 1: because that the original IP as the cannon. So like 116 00:08:20,640 --> 00:08:25,760 Speaker 1: for example, you know, um, Drake and Sully have a 117 00:08:25,800 --> 00:08:28,880 Speaker 1: certain kind of relationship, so you wouldn't want it to 118 00:08:28,880 --> 00:08:33,680 Speaker 1: be a different relationship, right, And there are certain you 119 00:08:33,720 --> 00:08:38,400 Speaker 1: know characters besides those two, like Chloe. Was that you 120 00:08:38,480 --> 00:08:44,240 Speaker 1: want to honor that aspect of it. Um. And you 121 00:08:44,280 --> 00:08:51,000 Speaker 1: know the idea of having this insane um action set 122 00:08:51,040 --> 00:08:55,239 Speaker 1: pieces which the game had, which are you know, almost 123 00:08:56,160 --> 00:09:01,280 Speaker 1: surreal in what when you sort of translate them or 124 00:09:01,320 --> 00:09:03,520 Speaker 1: you look at them or you play them. So we 125 00:09:03,640 --> 00:09:06,679 Speaker 1: tried to do our own version of those, and we 126 00:09:06,679 --> 00:09:13,280 Speaker 1: were always trying to do some aspect of that. I 127 00:09:13,320 --> 00:09:15,920 Speaker 1: mean sometimes we sort of careened off the road with 128 00:09:16,000 --> 00:09:18,559 Speaker 1: some of the development that we did. I say, no, 129 00:09:18,720 --> 00:09:21,160 Speaker 1: let's let's go away from that. Let's make it all 130 00:09:22,040 --> 00:09:26,760 Speaker 1: really really totally real, and that didn't work. Let's do 131 00:09:26,800 --> 00:09:28,959 Speaker 1: it all in first person like a shooter game. No, 132 00:09:29,120 --> 00:09:32,520 Speaker 1: that didn't totally work. So um, we had a lot 133 00:09:32,520 --> 00:09:36,839 Speaker 1: of hidden miss is h in in trying to do that. 134 00:09:36,920 --> 00:09:40,480 Speaker 1: But to get to answer to to do a more 135 00:09:40,520 --> 00:09:43,840 Speaker 1: simple answer your question. You do want to take pieces 136 00:09:43,840 --> 00:09:47,840 Speaker 1: of the I P and translate them into this other medium, 137 00:09:48,120 --> 00:09:52,240 Speaker 1: but you also wanted to be fresh. It can't just 138 00:09:52,400 --> 00:09:55,120 Speaker 1: be Oh, I'm taking this game and I'm turning this 139 00:09:55,200 --> 00:09:57,600 Speaker 1: game exactly a new a movie and I'm following that 140 00:09:57,640 --> 00:10:04,400 Speaker 1: plotline that that that is something that I've always tried 141 00:10:04,480 --> 00:10:11,760 Speaker 1: not to do, and any you know, crossovers from whatever 142 00:10:11,800 --> 00:10:16,280 Speaker 1: the original ips book, magazine, article, comic book, graphic novel, 143 00:10:16,840 --> 00:10:20,840 Speaker 1: or game. I've also taken TV shows like Get Smart, 144 00:10:21,800 --> 00:10:25,200 Speaker 1: you know, turn them into a motion picture. Or you 145 00:10:25,200 --> 00:10:27,320 Speaker 1: could say, well, there was a wonder Woman comic, but 146 00:10:27,360 --> 00:10:33,040 Speaker 1: there was a wonder Woman TV show, right, M. Batman 147 00:10:33,120 --> 00:10:36,520 Speaker 1: TV show about motion picture. I want to ask you 148 00:10:36,559 --> 00:10:39,360 Speaker 1: what what is that? What is that something that is 149 00:10:39,679 --> 00:10:43,400 Speaker 1: that makes something from another medium feel like a movie? 150 00:10:43,679 --> 00:10:46,280 Speaker 1: Is that the bigness? Is that the bigness of the 151 00:10:46,400 --> 00:10:49,360 Speaker 1: vision the cinema? You know, as a producer, you must 152 00:10:49,360 --> 00:10:52,839 Speaker 1: have that radar for you know, this must feel like 153 00:10:52,880 --> 00:10:55,480 Speaker 1: a movie. It must have a certain kind of set pieces. 154 00:10:55,520 --> 00:10:57,160 Speaker 1: It is it something that you can define or is 155 00:10:57,160 --> 00:11:02,160 Speaker 1: it different each project? Well? I really think it it's 156 00:11:02,200 --> 00:11:04,719 Speaker 1: different from each project because, like I say, what you're 157 00:11:04,800 --> 00:11:08,200 Speaker 1: drawing from that, you're going to use from the initial 158 00:11:08,360 --> 00:11:13,559 Speaker 1: from the you know, the initial I P is totally 159 00:11:14,160 --> 00:11:18,200 Speaker 1: an aspect of the personality of the piece, right, so 160 00:11:19,240 --> 00:11:23,680 Speaker 1: you know, when you're doing Uncharted, you definitely want that 161 00:11:24,559 --> 00:11:28,720 Speaker 1: aspect of the relationship between Nate and Sully. In our case, 162 00:11:29,480 --> 00:11:33,840 Speaker 1: the big AHA moment was saying, Okay, well, since the 163 00:11:33,960 --> 00:11:40,440 Speaker 1: game has has only alluded to how they met, let's 164 00:11:40,480 --> 00:11:43,240 Speaker 1: do a movie that shows how they met. That gave 165 00:11:43,280 --> 00:11:46,480 Speaker 1: you the end to take the story a little further 166 00:11:47,320 --> 00:11:52,440 Speaker 1: exactly and to make the story fresh from the games, 167 00:11:52,960 --> 00:11:57,040 Speaker 1: right while we were still honoring the personality that is 168 00:11:57,080 --> 00:12:00,400 Speaker 1: from the games between the two. The rep partee right, 169 00:12:00,840 --> 00:12:06,360 Speaker 1: but also and also the big set pieces. So so 170 00:12:07,280 --> 00:12:10,080 Speaker 1: if if you're doing a different i P, you would 171 00:12:10,160 --> 00:12:14,520 Speaker 1: want to draw from from that right i P and 172 00:12:14,520 --> 00:12:17,439 Speaker 1: and take aspects of the personality of that i P. 173 00:12:17,760 --> 00:12:20,280 Speaker 1: But also brings something fresh. I think you've got to 174 00:12:20,320 --> 00:12:24,800 Speaker 1: help both m hm um. You mentioned that early on 175 00:12:24,840 --> 00:12:27,720 Speaker 1: there was a shotgun marriage with av A Rod. I 176 00:12:27,760 --> 00:12:30,560 Speaker 1: don't have to tell you how hard those marriages can be. 177 00:12:30,840 --> 00:12:33,640 Speaker 1: What was the key to making it work and keeping 178 00:12:33,679 --> 00:12:38,520 Speaker 1: you guys friends friends at the end? You know, really 179 00:12:38,720 --> 00:12:46,160 Speaker 1: it was just, um, we we I think we respected 180 00:12:46,200 --> 00:12:48,800 Speaker 1: each other's work. You know, we both came into it, 181 00:12:50,160 --> 00:12:53,360 Speaker 1: uh with a with a pretty terrific body of work, 182 00:12:53,440 --> 00:12:59,200 Speaker 1: so we both knew that. And and Alex by the 183 00:12:59,280 --> 00:13:04,680 Speaker 1: time that he was with us, he had also done 184 00:13:04,720 --> 00:13:06,600 Speaker 1: movies where he had a good body of work as 185 00:13:06,600 --> 00:13:12,520 Speaker 1: a producer, not as a studio production had so you know, 186 00:13:13,679 --> 00:13:17,800 Speaker 1: it wasn't like we were teaching each other. We both 187 00:13:17,840 --> 00:13:24,480 Speaker 1: had bodies that worked that we respected tremendously, and in 188 00:13:24,520 --> 00:13:28,080 Speaker 1: a number of cases, him with his Marvel movies and 189 00:13:28,160 --> 00:13:32,479 Speaker 1: me with my DC movies in genres that we also respected. 190 00:13:33,200 --> 00:13:35,800 Speaker 1: So it was it was it was pretty easy. It's 191 00:13:35,840 --> 00:13:38,320 Speaker 1: not to say we didn't always agree, because that just 192 00:13:38,920 --> 00:13:43,200 Speaker 1: doesn't happen. Alex Gartner and I don't always agree, so 193 00:13:43,600 --> 00:13:46,880 Speaker 1: but but we treated each other with respect and also 194 00:13:46,960 --> 00:13:50,040 Speaker 1: with a really good friendship. Don't hit that pause button. 195 00:13:50,480 --> 00:13:54,040 Speaker 1: There's more stories from producer Charles Rowan after this break, 196 00:13:57,360 --> 00:14:00,000 Speaker 1: and we're back with more insights on the content business 197 00:14:00,080 --> 00:14:04,240 Speaker 1: us from Uncharted producer Charles Rovan. But as you got 198 00:14:04,280 --> 00:14:06,920 Speaker 1: closer to your premier date, what did did your gut 199 00:14:07,000 --> 00:14:08,600 Speaker 1: tell you that you had a hit or were you 200 00:14:08,600 --> 00:14:11,600 Speaker 1: a little nervous given everything that's gone on with movie 201 00:14:11,640 --> 00:14:17,040 Speaker 1: going in the last two years. Um, you know, by 202 00:14:17,080 --> 00:14:20,960 Speaker 1: the time that we were let's just say several weeks out, 203 00:14:22,880 --> 00:14:27,360 Speaker 1: we had done many tests of the movie with different audiences, right, 204 00:14:28,000 --> 00:14:33,040 Speaker 1: And you know, when we started to test the movie, 205 00:14:33,560 --> 00:14:37,080 Speaker 1: we could only do these small research screenings. Now, I'm 206 00:14:37,200 --> 00:14:42,520 Speaker 1: used to doing research screenings where you know, if it's 207 00:14:42,520 --> 00:14:47,200 Speaker 1: a four theater, every seat is built. Right here, we 208 00:14:47,200 --> 00:14:50,400 Speaker 1: were doing research screenings. You know that if it was 209 00:14:50,440 --> 00:14:53,960 Speaker 1: a two hundred seat house, maybe fifty seats were filled, 210 00:14:54,600 --> 00:15:00,920 Speaker 1: right and and and um, you know, you weren't always 211 00:15:00,920 --> 00:15:07,880 Speaker 1: getting the target audience. So we always wanted a target audience. Um, 212 00:15:08,040 --> 00:15:16,120 Speaker 1: that was who our target audiences, which is you know, um, 213 00:15:16,200 --> 00:15:22,320 Speaker 1: young men and women, but also you know, families were 214 00:15:22,360 --> 00:15:25,400 Speaker 1: trying to make a family uh movie even though it 215 00:15:25,480 --> 00:15:34,880 Speaker 1: was PG thirteen right, Um, And so that wasn't necessarily 216 00:15:34,880 --> 00:15:37,920 Speaker 1: who came out during COVID. It was really interesting who 217 00:15:37,960 --> 00:15:42,480 Speaker 1: came out, right because sometimes it was those people, but 218 00:15:42,560 --> 00:15:46,680 Speaker 1: sometimes it wasn't. Sometimes it was people. I remember when 219 00:15:46,720 --> 00:15:49,600 Speaker 1: when our biggest you're not gonna if you're gonna laugh 220 00:15:50,000 --> 00:15:54,840 Speaker 1: are our largest quadrant on the fifty people. We're individuals 221 00:15:54,920 --> 00:16:00,480 Speaker 1: over seventy not that there's anything wrong with that. I 222 00:16:00,600 --> 00:16:04,600 Speaker 1: must say there's anything wrong with individuals overseas. If you're 223 00:16:04,600 --> 00:16:07,320 Speaker 1: talking about a movie black and Charted, I wouldn't say 224 00:16:07,400 --> 00:16:09,640 Speaker 1: you would go into it going at your target audience 225 00:16:09,680 --> 00:16:13,560 Speaker 1: may not be the most complete sample. Yeah, and would 226 00:16:13,600 --> 00:16:17,120 Speaker 1: you just is an online movie research screening? Is that 227 00:16:17,240 --> 00:16:20,080 Speaker 1: just too dangerous being online? You just can't do that 228 00:16:20,200 --> 00:16:23,320 Speaker 1: in a world of piracy. People have done online research 229 00:16:23,400 --> 00:16:29,680 Speaker 1: screenings and I I'm just not a fan of them 230 00:16:29,720 --> 00:16:37,960 Speaker 1: because you're online. So what you definitely don't have is 231 00:16:38,000 --> 00:16:42,480 Speaker 1: the group theatrical experience. And I think the group theatrical 232 00:16:42,560 --> 00:16:50,360 Speaker 1: experience if you're making a film a feature for an 233 00:16:50,360 --> 00:16:56,800 Speaker 1: initial theatrical release, for you to do an online screening 234 00:16:57,440 --> 00:17:03,480 Speaker 1: is sort of counterintuitive, right, Um? And by the way, 235 00:17:05,320 --> 00:17:10,600 Speaker 1: even though our audience was seventy as an average, are 236 00:17:10,800 --> 00:17:15,800 Speaker 1: the biggest quadrant? Right? They liked the movie, right, I 237 00:17:15,920 --> 00:17:17,720 Speaker 1: just wasn't sure they were going to be the first 238 00:17:17,720 --> 00:17:21,200 Speaker 1: people to see the movie, right. They might wait, they 239 00:17:21,280 --> 00:17:23,159 Speaker 1: might stay at home. And we knew we needed to 240 00:17:23,200 --> 00:17:25,240 Speaker 1: get make a movie that people were going to go 241 00:17:25,280 --> 00:17:29,879 Speaker 1: out and see, right, because we shot the entire movie 242 00:17:30,200 --> 00:17:36,000 Speaker 1: during COVID. So wow, Yeah, that's it. That's a whole 243 00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:42,040 Speaker 1: another adventure. Let me ask you when did go ahead? 244 00:17:42,400 --> 00:17:45,359 Speaker 1: So when when did you know? When did you get 245 00:17:45,400 --> 00:17:49,120 Speaker 1: the sense that you knew that your star Tom Holland 246 00:17:49,520 --> 00:17:52,560 Speaker 1: was going to be in a little movie called Spider 247 00:17:52,600 --> 00:17:56,600 Speaker 1: Man just before you know, just well, a couple of 248 00:17:56,640 --> 00:18:00,199 Speaker 1: months before your movie open. Were you excited it or 249 00:18:00,240 --> 00:18:05,320 Speaker 1: were you a little nervous about that? No? I wasn't 250 00:18:05,359 --> 00:18:11,560 Speaker 1: really nervous about that. I mean quite frankly, I was 251 00:18:12,640 --> 00:18:17,119 Speaker 1: unbelievably happy about how well that movie did, because it 252 00:18:17,280 --> 00:18:19,480 Speaker 1: proved that people were going to actually go out to 253 00:18:19,560 --> 00:18:24,600 Speaker 1: the movies. Right. I had had two experiences at the 254 00:18:24,720 --> 00:18:29,440 Speaker 1: end of twenty and in one of simultaneous release movies, 255 00:18:30,280 --> 00:18:32,919 Speaker 1: and I was not a big fan of that model, 256 00:18:34,080 --> 00:18:37,080 Speaker 1: and the results proved that I was right not being 257 00:18:37,119 --> 00:18:39,640 Speaker 1: a big fan of that model, at least for the 258 00:18:39,640 --> 00:18:47,639 Speaker 1: theatrical business. Okay, I don't know the internal numbers. I 259 00:18:47,720 --> 00:18:50,040 Speaker 1: know what people say the numbers are, but I don't 260 00:18:50,080 --> 00:18:53,640 Speaker 1: know how many people are actually staying on as subscribers 261 00:18:53,640 --> 00:18:58,840 Speaker 1: are not. So, um, it might be good for the 262 00:18:58,880 --> 00:19:03,879 Speaker 1: streamer a portion of somebody's business. Somebody else would have 263 00:19:03,920 --> 00:19:06,320 Speaker 1: to comment on that, because I can't really comment on that, 264 00:19:06,800 --> 00:19:09,359 Speaker 1: but I know it's not good for theatrical part of 265 00:19:09,400 --> 00:19:12,280 Speaker 1: the business, and that has been proven and that's why 266 00:19:13,800 --> 00:19:17,280 Speaker 1: people aren't doing it anymore. So it was great to 267 00:19:17,320 --> 00:19:23,000 Speaker 1: see that, Um, that Spider Man was getting people out 268 00:19:23,119 --> 00:19:27,760 Speaker 1: and getting people out big time, right as big as 269 00:19:27,800 --> 00:19:31,639 Speaker 1: before the pandemic. Right, That's what was so amazing. So 270 00:19:31,680 --> 00:19:34,359 Speaker 1: how could I not be thrilled about that. That made 271 00:19:34,400 --> 00:19:36,880 Speaker 1: me believe that we really had a chance on our charter. 272 00:19:37,240 --> 00:19:40,840 Speaker 1: Right by that time, we had already had enough research 273 00:19:40,880 --> 00:19:45,080 Speaker 1: screenings that we knew was a four quadrant movie. So yes, 274 00:19:45,320 --> 00:19:47,880 Speaker 1: we knew that seventy year olds would like it, right, 275 00:19:48,119 --> 00:19:51,040 Speaker 1: but we also knew that twelve year olds would like it, 276 00:19:51,160 --> 00:19:53,840 Speaker 1: and we knew that, you know, five year olds would 277 00:19:53,880 --> 00:19:58,439 Speaker 1: really really like it, you know, and men and women, 278 00:20:00,119 --> 00:20:08,520 Speaker 1: so um so, feeling that we really had a shot, Um, 279 00:20:08,560 --> 00:20:11,879 Speaker 1: it was really good. So I was happy about Uh. 280 00:20:12,920 --> 00:20:15,919 Speaker 1: I was happy about Spider Man, which I thought was 281 00:20:15,960 --> 00:20:21,280 Speaker 1: a really great movie. And I was happy that Tom 282 00:20:21,320 --> 00:20:23,800 Speaker 1: Holland was in our movie. But I was also happy 283 00:20:23,840 --> 00:20:26,800 Speaker 1: that Tom Holland was in our movie even before that, 284 00:20:26,840 --> 00:20:30,280 Speaker 1: because I thought he just did a spectacular job, as 285 00:20:30,280 --> 00:20:32,600 Speaker 1: it marked as out of everybody. Really it was a 286 00:20:32,640 --> 00:20:36,800 Speaker 1: great shooting experience and a great post experience. And you said, 287 00:20:36,800 --> 00:20:41,000 Speaker 1: where where did you shoot it? During COVID We shot 288 00:20:41,080 --> 00:20:48,000 Speaker 1: mostly in Berlin, and we also shot in several places 289 00:20:48,040 --> 00:20:54,919 Speaker 1: in Spain, including Barcelona and Madrid. Mhm did did it? 290 00:20:54,960 --> 00:20:57,000 Speaker 1: Sounds like you had to be in full bubble? I 291 00:20:57,040 --> 00:21:02,040 Speaker 1: mean to shoot in early. Must have been tough to 292 00:21:02,080 --> 00:21:06,040 Speaker 1: pull that off. Yeah, we we didn't. We didn't shoot. Yeah, 293 00:21:06,119 --> 00:21:09,359 Speaker 1: we tryed to. I guess we did some additional photography 294 00:21:10,119 --> 00:21:17,679 Speaker 1: so we literally stopped. We were we were gosh, I 295 00:21:17,680 --> 00:21:20,919 Speaker 1: think we were one day away from starting to shoot 296 00:21:21,600 --> 00:21:25,240 Speaker 1: when we shut down for COVID on March tenth, we 297 00:21:25,200 --> 00:21:31,080 Speaker 1: were supposed to know even Ah. Then we came back 298 00:21:31,160 --> 00:21:34,480 Speaker 1: in July and shot. When we finished shooting at the 299 00:21:34,560 --> 00:21:38,600 Speaker 1: end of October, we went back for some additional photography 300 00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:41,120 Speaker 1: at the beginning of the year, and then we did 301 00:21:41,119 --> 00:21:43,720 Speaker 1: a little bit a couple of more days. I think 302 00:21:43,760 --> 00:21:49,240 Speaker 1: it was in the summer of UM. But we really 303 00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:54,159 Speaker 1: we were the first movie to come back and u 304 00:21:55,760 --> 00:22:01,720 Speaker 1: and it was really a big vote of confidence that 305 00:22:03,119 --> 00:22:06,239 Speaker 1: that Sony gave us because by that time, you know, 306 00:22:07,280 --> 00:22:11,640 Speaker 1: the budget increased because of the COVID protocols, and we 307 00:22:11,640 --> 00:22:15,200 Speaker 1: were we were really you know, I think there were 308 00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:17,480 Speaker 1: other movies that came in behind us, but we were 309 00:22:17,480 --> 00:22:24,040 Speaker 1: really the first movie, first big movie anyway that you know, 310 00:22:24,160 --> 00:22:30,359 Speaker 1: crafted those protocols together with the guilds and the unions. UM. 311 00:22:30,400 --> 00:22:35,440 Speaker 1: So that was very different and exciting and another production 312 00:22:35,520 --> 00:22:37,560 Speaker 1: problem that one had to deal with. What do you 313 00:22:37,560 --> 00:22:39,800 Speaker 1: think we're going to be saying about movie going in 314 00:22:40,280 --> 00:22:42,520 Speaker 1: three years time and five years time? Do you think 315 00:22:42,560 --> 00:22:48,560 Speaker 1: it comes back full strength? I do, I think, But 316 00:22:48,640 --> 00:22:51,200 Speaker 1: don't get me wrong. I'm happy that the streamers are here. 317 00:22:52,240 --> 00:22:58,159 Speaker 1: I think that they do a great job of, you know, 318 00:22:59,240 --> 00:23:07,520 Speaker 1: giving great content, um and um. But I think that 319 00:23:07,520 --> 00:23:13,560 Speaker 1: that motion pictures are also great when they are shared experience. 320 00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:17,080 Speaker 1: And that's what theatrical is. It's sort of like, you know, 321 00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:24,159 Speaker 1: when you're watching something streaming. It's what I call a 322 00:23:24,240 --> 00:23:30,120 Speaker 1: cooler experience because it's okay to be interrupted. You are interrupted. 323 00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:33,840 Speaker 1: You know, you might answer the phone, you might get 324 00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:37,920 Speaker 1: the pause button, you might do any of a number 325 00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:40,639 Speaker 1: of things. Okay, So it's a little bit of a 326 00:23:40,680 --> 00:23:46,119 Speaker 1: different experience when you're in a movie theater. You know, 327 00:23:47,040 --> 00:23:51,639 Speaker 1: the goal is that it's a shared experience with a 328 00:23:51,760 --> 00:23:55,520 Speaker 1: large group of people, and so it's that contact thing, 329 00:23:56,240 --> 00:24:03,600 Speaker 1: right and um and so one of the things that 330 00:24:03,800 --> 00:24:11,200 Speaker 1: really gave me, um, a strong belief that uh, the 331 00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:15,919 Speaker 1: theaters were here to stay was the fact just to 332 00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:19,080 Speaker 1: go in and share that experience again, you know, with 333 00:24:19,119 --> 00:24:24,159 Speaker 1: a movie like uh, with the movie you know, like 334 00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:27,560 Speaker 1: Spider Man, or with a movie like Uncharted. It. I 335 00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:29,720 Speaker 1: can't tell you what a great feeling it is to have, 336 00:24:30,560 --> 00:24:33,480 Speaker 1: you know, to be in a full auditorium and you 337 00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:36,720 Speaker 1: have people really go crazy for the movie. It's just wonderful, right, 338 00:24:36,800 --> 00:24:40,280 Speaker 1: particularly if you're a producer How are you dealing with 339 00:24:40,359 --> 00:24:44,400 Speaker 1: the kind of the pros and cons of this unprecedented 340 00:24:44,440 --> 00:24:48,639 Speaker 1: amount of capital just flowing into the content business, but 341 00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:52,200 Speaker 1: also with all the practicalities of its pretty crowded space 342 00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:54,720 Speaker 1: right now? How are you? How are you navigating that? 343 00:24:57,160 --> 00:25:06,800 Speaker 1: You know, here's the thing, Um, I think it's actually 344 00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:10,520 Speaker 1: a wonderful time. I don't know how long it's gonna last, 345 00:25:11,680 --> 00:25:15,840 Speaker 1: but I think it's a wonderful time because you've got 346 00:25:16,760 --> 00:25:24,920 Speaker 1: the most opportunity for content creators that's ever existed. Um, 347 00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:33,040 Speaker 1: So that can't be bad. So you know, it's physics, right, 348 00:25:33,119 --> 00:25:40,840 Speaker 1: So you have reactions to things. Nothing is perfect. But 349 00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:43,960 Speaker 1: I'd certainly rather have a buoyant market than a market 350 00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:46,280 Speaker 1: where you're going, well, there's no money to make movies, 351 00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:49,800 Speaker 1: there's no money to make TV series, there's no money 352 00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:58,120 Speaker 1: to make content. So I've been there too. This is better, gotcha? 353 00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:02,199 Speaker 1: I think this is better. It has it has consequences, 354 00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:05,639 Speaker 1: but it's better. I'd be remiss if I didn't ask 355 00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:09,040 Speaker 1: you about the future of Uncharted. It's sure, it sure 356 00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:11,960 Speaker 1: seems like the first stirrings of a franchise. Do do 357 00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:17,640 Speaker 1: you see more movies a possible TV series in the future. Um, 358 00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:24,919 Speaker 1: you know, uh, I think that I share Tom's enthusiasm. 359 00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:29,639 Speaker 1: Tom rothminson dusiasm. He spoke last night to his to 360 00:26:29,800 --> 00:26:32,679 Speaker 1: his team at Sony. It is a fantastic job and 361 00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:35,240 Speaker 1: it's the birth of a new franchise. And you know, 362 00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:39,000 Speaker 1: I hope that's the case. Love to make another one 363 00:26:39,359 --> 00:26:42,000 Speaker 1: with the same team we made this one for where 364 00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:44,120 Speaker 1: you are now, at the stage of your career, where 365 00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:46,679 Speaker 1: you are now, what would you say, you know, for 366 00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:49,640 Speaker 1: the marketplace that we've just been talking about, what would 367 00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:54,760 Speaker 1: you say, we're important early experiences for you, early experiences 368 00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:58,120 Speaker 1: in your career that are helping you navigate the crazy 369 00:26:58,160 --> 00:27:08,520 Speaker 1: business that it is today. Um, well, you know, I 370 00:27:09,760 --> 00:27:20,000 Speaker 1: had the benefit of going to film school and actually 371 00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:24,679 Speaker 1: you know, making student films um in college, and so 372 00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:31,199 Speaker 1: that clearly of course helped me. I also, um, you know, 373 00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:35,439 Speaker 1: it was very fortunate that I was able to go 374 00:27:35,640 --> 00:27:41,800 Speaker 1: right from making student films into being involved in commercial films. 375 00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:45,520 Speaker 1: At the same time, I also had the benefit of 376 00:27:45,840 --> 00:27:52,000 Speaker 1: learning about business from my family business, which was real estate, 377 00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:57,480 Speaker 1: and my brother convinced me at a very young age 378 00:27:57,800 --> 00:28:02,440 Speaker 1: to become a broker viewer for a while. And um, 379 00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:06,720 Speaker 1: you know, all of those different lateral businesses that I 380 00:28:06,760 --> 00:28:11,800 Speaker 1: was in I think have really helped me. Um, you know, 381 00:28:12,840 --> 00:28:17,320 Speaker 1: the creative process through working with really you know, talented 382 00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:25,480 Speaker 1: people in school and talented professors, but also learning about finance, 383 00:28:25,960 --> 00:28:31,320 Speaker 1: different ways of financing things, and um, different aspects of 384 00:28:31,359 --> 00:28:36,200 Speaker 1: other businesses and how they translate in just any business, 385 00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:39,959 Speaker 1: but in particular the motion picture business. You know a 386 00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:42,080 Speaker 1: lot of times like since my family was in the 387 00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:47,600 Speaker 1: real estate business, if and they build poems, and when 388 00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:50,440 Speaker 1: you build homes, you have blueprints, right for the script 389 00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:54,200 Speaker 1: is a blueprint. So there's a lot of those things 390 00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:59,240 Speaker 1: that have relevance. Mm hmmm. Interesting. Well, I know the 391 00:28:59,280 --> 00:29:02,120 Speaker 1: life of a produce or sometimes you really are Atlas 392 00:29:02,120 --> 00:29:05,480 Speaker 1: pushing that rock up the hill to get your movie made. Chuck, 393 00:29:05,520 --> 00:29:14,320 Speaker 1: thank you so much for your time. Thanks for listening. 394 00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:17,200 Speaker 1: Be sure to leave us a review at Apple Podcast. 395 00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:20,520 Speaker 1: We love to hear from listeners, and please go to 396 00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:23,800 Speaker 1: Variety dot com to sign up for our free Strictly 397 00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:27,280 Speaker 1: Business newsletter, and don't forget to come back next week 398 00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:29,520 Speaker 1: for another episode of Strictly Business.