WEBVTT - 10/21/25: Trump Worries Bibi Will Break Ceasefire, Two Major Recession Indicators Blink Red 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:01.599 Hey guys, Saga and Crystal here. 0:00:01.680 --> 0:00:05.200 Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election, 0:00:05.360 --> 0:00:07.840 and we are so excited about what that means for 0:00:07.880 --> 0:00:08.720 the future of the show. 0:00:08.880 --> 0:00:10.760 This is the only place where you can find honest 0:00:10.760 --> 0:00:13.280 perspectives from the left and the right that simply does 0:00:13.320 --> 0:00:14.680 not exist anywhere else. 0:00:14.760 --> 0:00:17.080 So if that is something that's important to you, please 0:00:17.120 --> 0:00:19.599 go to Breakingpoints dot com. Become a member today and 0:00:19.640 --> 0:00:22.920 you'll access to our full shows, unedited, ad free and 0:00:23.040 --> 0:00:25.600 all put together for you every morning in your inbox. 0:00:25.680 --> 0:00:27.560 We need your help to build the future of independent 0:00:27.560 --> 0:00:29.920 news media and we hope to see you at Breakingpoints 0:00:29.960 --> 0:00:35.840 dot com. Good morning, everybody, Happy Tuesday. Have an amazing 0:00:35.880 --> 0:00:39.479 show for everybody today, Bro Show people Live for the Pound. 0:00:39.600 --> 0:00:42.120 Good to see you, Ryan, It is great to see you. 0:00:42.159 --> 0:00:45.199 We have a quadruple Bro show here. We've got Jeremy Scahill. 0:00:45.200 --> 0:00:47.239 He's going to join us in a little bit to 0:00:47.280 --> 0:00:49.240 break down the Israel Gaza ceasefire. 0:00:49.320 --> 0:00:50.800 We've got David Dayan in the house. 0:00:50.840 --> 0:00:55.040 He's going to break down vendor finance dot Com era 0:00:56.000 --> 0:00:59.480 vendors financing scheme that actually led to the crash and 0:00:59.520 --> 0:01:02.800 how it's all happening again, and he's actually legitimate expert 0:01:02.800 --> 0:01:04.640 on it. I'm excited to talk to him. We're going 0:01:04.720 --> 0:01:07.280 to break down some of the economy news. Very troubling 0:01:07.360 --> 0:01:11.800 APAC actually very interesting here Seth Moulton previously, how would 0:01:11.840 --> 0:01:14.039 you describe him, Ryan, He's like a national security He's 0:01:14.080 --> 0:01:15.000 like a normal debt. 0:01:14.959 --> 0:01:17.360 Yeah, right now, he's to the right of a normal 0:01:17.440 --> 0:01:18.720 deme even Yeah, good point. 0:01:18.800 --> 0:01:21.320 And he is declaring I will not take a single 0:01:21.360 --> 0:01:23.480 dollar from a pack, which just goes to show how 0:01:23.560 --> 0:01:26.400 much things have changed. The Epstein story, which we ran 0:01:26.440 --> 0:01:29.119 out of time yesterday because we were interviewing Shoycott Chakrabati. 0:01:29.680 --> 0:01:32.680 Actually we will break down entirely. There's some new memoir 0:01:33.000 --> 0:01:36.000 come out from Virginia Gouffrey, as well as a ton 0:01:36.240 --> 0:01:39.440 of new stories which has not gotten nearly enough attention 0:01:39.600 --> 0:01:43.240 about Epstein, his connections with the financial billionaires, with some 0:01:43.319 --> 0:01:46.080 of the new files that were released in the cover 0:01:46.160 --> 0:01:47.319 of Darkness on a Friday. 0:01:47.360 --> 0:01:49.640 They always released on Friday after how about that interesting 0:01:49.680 --> 0:01:52.800 right to do a colmic Politico called fishy Friday. Oh, 0:01:52.920 --> 0:01:57.960 I love that. I mean Friday newsum is a Washington tradition. Really, 0:01:58.240 --> 0:02:00.960 it really is, and sadly it does kind of work. 0:02:01.240 --> 0:02:05.120 It really does. Okay, Ukraine, important stuff going on with Ukraine. 0:02:05.120 --> 0:02:08.920 President Trump now appearingly to reverse course now saying Ukraine 0:02:08.960 --> 0:02:11.200 does need to accept the piece deal. We're gonna break 0:02:11.240 --> 0:02:13.760 down everything that's going on there, some fast moving things 0:02:13.800 --> 0:02:16.800 and a potential summit between a new summit between Trump 0:02:16.880 --> 0:02:20.119 and Putin in Budapest sometime on the horizon. And then 0:02:20.440 --> 0:02:22.960 Ryan and I are going to weigh in on marijuana, 0:02:23.080 --> 0:02:25.239 all right, so when Crystal is away, the boys will 0:02:25.240 --> 0:02:28.880 play right. And this is actually it's a landmark case 0:02:29.520 --> 0:02:33.639 between the United States Supreme Court where they will rule 0:02:33.800 --> 0:02:37.480 on whether marijuana users should be allowed to own and 0:02:37.560 --> 0:02:40.800 possess firearms. You should keep in mind that marijuana remains 0:02:40.800 --> 0:02:42.320 federally illegal and. 0:02:42.280 --> 0:02:44.560 So technically it is a violation of the law. And 0:02:44.600 --> 0:02:45.520 so you will all get to. 0:02:45.480 --> 0:02:47.519 See where I come down on that one, and we 0:02:47.560 --> 0:02:51.040 can discuss whether marijuana use is in fact addiction and 0:02:51.080 --> 0:02:51.760 does qualify. 0:02:51.840 --> 0:02:53.920 So I'm excited to get into this. They're really jamming 0:02:53.960 --> 0:02:55.160 me up. Yeah, are they going to make me? 0:02:55.280 --> 0:02:58.080 That's why I yes, you are, and I will I 0:02:58.120 --> 0:03:01.440 will be arguing for commons send s gun control. Right, 0:03:01.520 --> 0:03:05.480 Why would you want psychotic addicts to have guns? This 0:03:05.520 --> 0:03:08.600 is what the left has been begging for, right, Okay, 0:03:08.639 --> 0:03:11.320 so let's go ahead and get to Israel. Jeremy Scalehill 0:03:11.360 --> 0:03:13.280 standing by, Let's get him in here. I'm very excited 0:03:13.320 --> 0:03:16.320 now to be joined in studio by Jeremy Skalehill. Jeremy, 0:03:16.320 --> 0:03:18.360 we have a tradition here where we do a pound, 0:03:18.400 --> 0:03:19.640 so we have a triple pound. 0:03:19.720 --> 0:03:22.680 Man, that's too much going on? Well, we call it 0:03:22.720 --> 0:03:24.640 the bro Show, that's what that's what we call. So 0:03:24.880 --> 0:03:27.079 that's where we're fired up and we are ready to go. 0:03:27.400 --> 0:03:30.000 All right, So we wanted to go through all of 0:03:30.080 --> 0:03:33.440 the recent developments with Israel and the ceasefire, the breaking 0:03:33.480 --> 0:03:37.000 of the ceasefire, the unbreaking of the ceasefire by Donald Trump. 0:03:37.120 --> 0:03:39.880 Much of it comes down to, at the current moment, 0:03:40.040 --> 0:03:43.080 a hard position from the President and his team of no, 0:03:43.160 --> 0:03:45.360 we're going to try to do this. And so we 0:03:45.400 --> 0:03:47.560 had Steve wi Cooff and Jared Kushner give a joint 0:03:47.600 --> 0:03:49.200 interview to CBS sixty minutes. 0:03:49.280 --> 0:03:50.520 Let's take a listen to what they said, and then 0:03:50.520 --> 0:03:51.480 we're going to get a reaction. 0:03:51.880 --> 0:03:55.600 You decide to go to Gaza and what did you see? 0:03:55.840 --> 0:03:58.280 It looked almost like a nuclear bomb had been set 0:03:58.320 --> 0:04:00.720 off in that area. And then you see these people 0:04:00.760 --> 0:04:02.640 moving back, and I asked the idea of where are 0:04:02.680 --> 0:04:05.560 they going, Like, I'm looking around, these are all ruins, 0:04:05.600 --> 0:04:07.520 and they said, well, they're going back to the areas 0:04:07.800 --> 0:04:10.040 where they're destroyed. Home was onto their plot and they're 0:04:10.080 --> 0:04:13.000 going to pitch a tent. And it's very sad because 0:04:13.000 --> 0:04:15.520 you think to yourself, they really have nowhere else to go. 0:04:16.040 --> 0:04:19.799 Would you say, now having been there, that it was genocide? 0:04:20.200 --> 0:04:24.680 No, no, absolutely not no, No, there was a war 0:04:24.720 --> 0:04:25.160 being foot. 0:04:25.240 --> 0:04:29.039 But are you saying publicly right now that Hamas is 0:04:29.080 --> 0:04:31.880 acting in good faith seriously looking. 0:04:31.600 --> 0:04:32.159 For the Bible? 0:04:32.240 --> 0:04:34.600 As far as we've seen from what's being conveyed tests 0:04:34.600 --> 0:04:37.240 from the mediators, they are so far that could break 0:04:37.279 --> 0:04:39.960 down at any minute, But right now we have seen 0:04:40.000 --> 0:04:41.719 them looking to honor their agreement. 0:04:42.200 --> 0:04:44.160 So he says that they're looking to honor the agreement. 0:04:44.240 --> 0:04:46.720 Jeremy, what does that fit with some of your reporting 0:04:46.760 --> 0:04:48.239 and some of the other things that you know about 0:04:48.240 --> 0:04:49.000 behind the scenes. 0:04:49.360 --> 0:04:50.760 Yeah, I mean, I think if you look at the 0:04:50.800 --> 0:04:53.960 actions of Israel versus the actions of Hamas since October 0:04:54.000 --> 0:04:56.960 tenth and the seasfire going into effect. Israel has continued 0:04:57.000 --> 0:05:00.120 its pattern of violating the ceasefire, not just by killing 0:05:00.760 --> 0:05:04.000 Palestinians and saying, oh, they cross this sort of fictitious 0:05:04.040 --> 0:05:06.400 line that the Israelis are now putting these huge yellow 0:05:06.440 --> 0:05:09.919 concrete blocks in continuing to kill as many as one 0:05:09.960 --> 0:05:14.440 hundred or more Palestinians. They're also not shipping in the 0:05:14.520 --> 0:05:17.880 agreed upon amount of food and other life essentials. I 0:05:17.880 --> 0:05:20.000 don't like the term aid because what Israel is doing 0:05:20.080 --> 0:05:23.480 is not just blocking humanitarian aid. They're blocking life essentials 0:05:23.520 --> 0:05:25.680 because they're in total control of what goes in and 0:05:25.720 --> 0:05:28.640 out of Gaza. So the Israelis always do this. They 0:05:28.680 --> 0:05:32.000 violate the ceasefire, they claim that it was for security reasons. 0:05:32.279 --> 0:05:37.080 On the other hand, Hamas's chief negotiator and its political leader, 0:05:37.160 --> 0:05:40.880 Khalil al Haya, gave a really interesting interview on Egyptian 0:05:40.920 --> 0:05:44.719 television yesterday in which he sounded like a season diplomat. 0:05:44.720 --> 0:05:47.560 When you compare the rhetoric of Hamas officials with that 0:05:47.640 --> 0:05:50.400 of Israelis Hamas is going out of its way to 0:05:50.400 --> 0:05:54.599 be very conciliatory about this. They're heaping praise on Donald Trump. 0:05:54.839 --> 0:05:58.160 They're saying that they're committed to the ceasefire. When allegations 0:05:58.160 --> 0:06:00.480 of violations happen, they try to address it right away. 0:06:00.520 --> 0:06:03.279 It was extraordinary to have the Cassam Brigades, Hamas's armed 0:06:03.279 --> 0:06:05.800 wing put out a statement in real time, almost like 0:06:05.839 --> 0:06:08.360 they have their own kind of pr operation like a 0:06:08.400 --> 0:06:11.400 Western government, where they're responding tit for tat to what 0:06:11.480 --> 0:06:14.880 Israel is saying, but they're not using belligerent language. When 0:06:14.920 --> 0:06:18.400 they're asked about the issue of disarmament, they remain firm 0:06:18.520 --> 0:06:20.840 and they say that that's a Palestinian issue and that 0:06:21.200 --> 0:06:24.080 we're not going to disarm. But they also say these 0:06:24.120 --> 0:06:27.520 are issues to be discussed in a broader Palestinian context. 0:06:27.520 --> 0:06:30.279 So what I would say is that when you hear 0:06:30.480 --> 0:06:34.200 Jared Kushner or Steve Whitkoff saying anything other than Hamas 0:06:34.279 --> 0:06:37.440 is the obstruction, even when Israel is accusing Hamasa being 0:06:37.480 --> 0:06:40.400 the obstruction, that's a market change from what we saw 0:06:40.480 --> 0:06:42.880 under Biden and also what we've seen at different points 0:06:42.960 --> 0:06:44.120 under the Trump administration. 0:06:44.200 --> 0:06:46.680 Yeah, that makes sense, and we have a two on disarmament, 0:06:46.800 --> 0:06:48.040 let's play, let's roll through that. 0:06:48.440 --> 0:06:51.679 And yet as soon as you left, Hamas executed seven 0:06:51.720 --> 0:06:54.120 people and then they went on to execute thirty more. 0:06:54.640 --> 0:06:57.400 Do you believe they really will disarm. 0:06:57.920 --> 0:07:01.320 Well, they promised they would, They said they it's down 0:07:01.400 --> 0:07:04.479 that they would. Now they said they were gang members, 0:07:04.480 --> 0:07:05.400 et cetera, et cetera. 0:07:05.520 --> 0:07:06.320 You know, but. 0:07:08.560 --> 0:07:12.040 These are very violent people. This is a very violent 0:07:12.560 --> 0:07:15.440 part of the world. Nobody's seen violence like this. If 0:07:15.440 --> 0:07:19.440 we have to, will disarm the US, well, whether it's 0:07:19.560 --> 0:07:22.800 me or the US, or it's you know, a proxy 0:07:23.560 --> 0:07:27.200 could be Israel. With our back end, we won't have 0:07:27.240 --> 0:07:28.720 boots something around. There's no reason to. 0:07:29.440 --> 0:07:31.400 And you gotta love when Trump this says the quiet 0:07:31.440 --> 0:07:32.960 part out loud, that Israel is a proxy. 0:07:33.000 --> 0:07:35.760 But yeah, yeah, one of our proxies. 0:07:35.800 --> 0:07:38.640 Now, when Kushner was asked about that by Leslie Stahl, 0:07:39.400 --> 0:07:42.560 he gave a much more nuanced answer. He said, well, 0:07:42.880 --> 0:07:46.160 you have to wait until this International Stabilization Force is 0:07:46.240 --> 0:07:49.600 up and operative because it's a population of a couple 0:07:49.600 --> 0:07:51.880 of million people and you need some sort of police force. 0:07:51.960 --> 0:07:56.160 It's like it's unusually kind of level headed and clear 0:07:56.200 --> 0:07:59.760 eyed from him, and so he was saying, effectively, we 0:07:59.800 --> 0:08:04.880 can ask Hamas to disarm until there's until We've gotten 0:08:05.000 --> 0:08:06.560 all the rest of our ducks in a row. 0:08:06.600 --> 0:08:08.600 So you are what are you. 0:08:08.480 --> 0:08:10.440 Reading from all of the different signals that are being 0:08:10.480 --> 0:08:11.120 sent about this. 0:08:11.240 --> 0:08:12.640 I mean, first of all, let's fly up to thirty 0:08:12.680 --> 0:08:16.560 thousand feet. When when Israeli officials talk about disarmament, they're 0:08:16.600 --> 0:08:19.040 actually not talking about arms. They're using that as a 0:08:19.080 --> 0:08:22.559 proxy for we want a full surrender of the Palestinian people. 0:08:22.680 --> 0:08:24.640 Right in a way, if you look at this just 0:08:24.680 --> 0:08:28.120 on a factual level, this is a total humiliation for Israel. 0:08:28.200 --> 0:08:31.480 If you actually look at facts, they're demanding that Hamas 0:08:31.560 --> 0:08:33.040 give up its arms. 0:08:33.200 --> 0:08:33.840 What arms? 0:08:34.080 --> 0:08:38.520 Most of it is either repurposed Israeli ordinance, homemade by 0:08:38.520 --> 0:08:42.719 the Engineering Corps of Hamas Battalion's sniper rifles. They have 0:08:42.920 --> 0:08:45.520 rocket propelled grenade launchers that either were bought on the 0:08:45.559 --> 0:08:48.800 black market from Israelis or that they've manufactured within Gaza. 0:08:49.200 --> 0:08:52.280 A massive modern military that is a is a killing 0:08:52.320 --> 0:08:55.840 machine in the region, has been unable to militarily defeat 0:08:56.240 --> 0:09:01.080 guys wearing flip flops and track suits. So on one level, 0:09:01.240 --> 0:09:03.760 this issue of disarmament, the world should sort of be saying, 0:09:03.840 --> 0:09:06.280 wait a minute, Israel's goal from the beginning has been 0:09:06.320 --> 0:09:09.480 the obliteration of Hamas and the disarmament of a Hamas. 0:09:09.559 --> 0:09:12.040 They've utterly failed to do it, even though they've killed 0:09:12.120 --> 0:09:15.720 tens of thousands of Palestinians in the process. Trump himself 0:09:15.760 --> 0:09:18.920 said that upwards of twenty thousand Cassam Brigade soldiers have 0:09:19.000 --> 0:09:21.880 been killed. The pre war estimates were between twenty and 0:09:21.880 --> 0:09:26.280 twenty five thousand of the Casam Brigades now US officials. 0:09:26.320 --> 0:09:29.400 I think it's really interesting that when you have Kushner 0:09:29.440 --> 0:09:32.280 and witcoffin Trump talking about this issue of the weapons, 0:09:32.600 --> 0:09:35.360 they seem to understand that there is a game that 0:09:35.440 --> 0:09:38.720 Israel is playing here and that the issue isn't actually 0:09:39.000 --> 0:09:40.760 the weapons themselves. 0:09:40.880 --> 0:09:42.160 It's a political question. 0:09:42.559 --> 0:09:46.040 And that's why I'll go back to Hamas's position. When 0:09:46.040 --> 0:09:48.839 they first responded to Trump, they broke his twenty point 0:09:48.880 --> 0:09:51.560 plan into two basic parts. The first part was, we 0:09:51.760 --> 0:09:54.320 the resistance holding the Israeli captives. We have the mandate 0:09:54.360 --> 0:09:57.080 to negotiate an end of the war, the resumption of 0:09:57.200 --> 0:10:00.840 delivery of life essentials, and the issue of Israeli troop withdrawals. 0:10:01.000 --> 0:10:03.920 But these other issues are political questions. Now Trump's people 0:10:03.920 --> 0:10:06.640 could have taken a hard line and said no, it's 0:10:06.760 --> 0:10:10.120 all or nothing, but they have it. Trump continues to misrepresent, 0:10:10.160 --> 0:10:13.160 according to Hamas's officials, what they actually said about disarmament. 0:10:13.480 --> 0:10:16.720 I suspect based on what sources within the Palestinian resistance 0:10:16.760 --> 0:10:19.920 have told me that when these discussions took place with 0:10:20.000 --> 0:10:22.079 Witkoff and Kushner, and I did speak to a source 0:10:22.120 --> 0:10:25.600 recently with direct knowledge of that conversation, what Khalil al 0:10:25.640 --> 0:10:29.120 Haya I'm told said to Witkoff and Kushner was we 0:10:29.240 --> 0:10:32.719 are open to disarmament in the context of the constitution 0:10:32.800 --> 0:10:35.560 of a Palestinian state and a Palestinian armed force. That 0:10:35.679 --> 0:10:38.280 is not a new position, but in the same way 0:10:38.440 --> 0:10:41.480 that Hamas was asking that Trump publicly announced an end 0:10:41.520 --> 0:10:44.880 to the war without any way of validating that or 0:10:44.960 --> 0:10:47.480 keeping it accountable. I think that there were those kinds 0:10:47.520 --> 0:10:50.040 of discussions at play, and so what Trump is representing 0:10:50.160 --> 0:10:54.040 is a dramatic oversimplification of the position Hamas has taken. 0:10:54.440 --> 0:10:57.679 But all Palestinian factions have said this clearly, armed ones, 0:10:58.040 --> 0:11:01.400 we will disarm in the context of merging our forces 0:11:01.480 --> 0:11:04.079 into a professional standing army, as has happened through history 0:11:04.120 --> 0:11:05.760 in these anti colonialist struggles. 0:11:05.800 --> 0:11:08.800 What's fascinating to me, Jeremy, is the White House is 0:11:09.000 --> 0:11:12.320 singularly representing Hamas as the problem, but also all of 0:11:12.320 --> 0:11:14.440 their indications are that Israel is a problem. 0:11:14.480 --> 0:11:15.920 So we have a New York Times article. 0:11:15.960 --> 0:11:17.240 I asked if we can put it up there on 0:11:17.280 --> 0:11:19.560 the screen or edit it in post production there it 0:11:19.600 --> 0:11:22.040 is the White House works to preserve Gaza deal amid 0:11:22.080 --> 0:11:25.920 concerns with Netanyahu. So not only did Steve Wikoff and 0:11:26.040 --> 0:11:29.520 Jared Kushner dispatched to Israel, but Vice President Vance is 0:11:29.520 --> 0:11:32.720 now wheels down in Tel Aviv. And apparently it's because 0:11:33.080 --> 0:11:35.520 of this. There are multiple White House officials going on 0:11:35.600 --> 0:11:38.000 background to the New York Times who say they are 0:11:38.080 --> 0:11:42.800 quote increasingly worried Netsan Yahu would dismantle the US broker disagreement. 0:11:43.040 --> 0:11:45.840 Vice President Vance, they're now actually trying to back up 0:11:45.880 --> 0:11:47.520 the two of them to deliver a message from the 0:11:47.559 --> 0:11:50.400 White House like, hey, we need this to stay together. 0:11:50.480 --> 0:11:53.720 But what they see behind the scenes was the immediate jump, 0:11:53.800 --> 0:11:57.480 let's say, with that unexploded ordinance, where Israel immediately lied 0:11:57.520 --> 0:12:00.400 about what happened. The only reason it got ranged is 0:12:00.400 --> 0:12:02.839 because the White House said, oh, we know that is 0:12:02.920 --> 0:12:05.200 that this wasn't a Hamas attack. We know this was 0:12:05.480 --> 0:12:08.800 unexploded ordinance, but that was a signal that this is all. 0:12:09.000 --> 0:12:12.079 This is what every single day of this is going 0:12:12.240 --> 0:12:14.880 to look like. And so with the White House trying 0:12:14.880 --> 0:12:18.280 to demand this of Netanyahu, how precarious do you see 0:12:18.280 --> 0:12:20.680 the current framework in the context of everything you just said. 0:12:21.559 --> 0:12:24.120 I think that we should understand Israel's position in this 0:12:24.160 --> 0:12:27.960 as netnya Who and others in the government trying to 0:12:28.040 --> 0:12:30.679 figure out how to exploit this and do a strategic 0:12:30.720 --> 0:12:33.559 repositioning in the short term. I think what we're seeing 0:12:33.600 --> 0:12:35.280 is the White House saying to netnya Who, we are 0:12:35.320 --> 0:12:37.520 not going to allow you to blow up this deal 0:12:37.679 --> 0:12:40.439 right now, and they're essentially I mean, I think Trump 0:12:40.520 --> 0:12:42.840 was right when he said that effectively he was saving 0:12:42.880 --> 0:12:46.240 Israel from itself. They were not succeeding militarily at anything 0:12:46.280 --> 0:12:50.360 except killing enormous numbers of children, intents, and starving people. 0:12:50.400 --> 0:12:54.320 I mean, they were unable to stop the insurgency. So 0:12:54.360 --> 0:12:56.679 what I think Trump and Vance are saying to Israel 0:12:56.760 --> 0:12:59.760 right now is your agenda is still there, let us 0:12:59.800 --> 0:13:00.839 go down this path. 0:13:01.040 --> 0:13:03.400 There's also the wild card we've discussed on this program. 0:13:03.040 --> 0:13:06.720 Before Trump, Kushner, Witcoff's son, all of these people in 0:13:06.760 --> 0:13:10.480 the inner circle have huge business entanglements with these Gulf states. 0:13:10.760 --> 0:13:13.480 And I think that the Article five like agreement that 0:13:13.520 --> 0:13:16.720 Trump made with Katar, this mutual defense back. Now, the Saudis, 0:13:17.080 --> 0:13:19.240 you know, are are saying, wait a minute, We've spent 0:13:19.360 --> 0:13:22.920 so many years kissing the boot, and where's our agreement. 0:13:23.040 --> 0:13:26.160 But what Trump is doing is quite interesting because I 0:13:26.200 --> 0:13:29.600 think that on one level, the greed, the business, the 0:13:29.600 --> 0:13:33.160 family connections, the security for his family businesses going forward, 0:13:33.320 --> 0:13:36.720 his legacy are causing problems for Netanyahu in the short term. 0:13:36.720 --> 0:13:39.680 But I would say we're in a perilous situation. Israel 0:13:39.800 --> 0:13:42.080 is still in pole position with their war of annihilation 0:13:42.440 --> 0:13:44.160 Netanyah who I think they just want to kind of 0:13:44.480 --> 0:13:46.760 discipline him a little bit, get the dog to come 0:13:46.840 --> 0:13:49.040 next to you and stand at your leg, and then 0:13:49.080 --> 0:13:50.800 when you tell him he can go back and attack 0:13:50.840 --> 0:13:53.640 whatever you order him to attack. That's essentially what I 0:13:53.679 --> 0:13:56.080 see happening right now. It's very dangerous for the future 0:13:56.080 --> 0:13:57.120 of the Palestinians right. 0:13:57.000 --> 0:14:00.800 Now, that makes sense. Yeah, so how how does this 0:14:00.880 --> 0:14:01.720 unfold from here? 0:14:02.440 --> 0:14:02.840 Yeah? 0:14:02.880 --> 0:14:06.000 You know, I was talking recently with some Palestinians who 0:14:06.000 --> 0:14:09.040 are very close to the negotiations, and I think from 0:14:09.080 --> 0:14:12.760 the Palestinian perspective, they want to widen the team that's 0:14:12.800 --> 0:14:16.640 negotiating this. There's some advantage to Netnya who having Hamas 0:14:16.720 --> 0:14:20.080 and Palestinian Islamic Jihad be the negotiators at the other 0:14:20.200 --> 0:14:22.600 end of the table. I've heard people mention, for instance, 0:14:22.600 --> 0:14:26.160 that Mustafa Bargutti, who is well known to Western audiences, 0:14:26.440 --> 0:14:29.560 a physician who speaks bluent English, goes on CNN, does 0:14:29.600 --> 0:14:33.320 not control an armed force, but has widespread recognition in 0:14:33.360 --> 0:14:37.440 Palestine and increasing popularity. He's never kicked the armed resistance 0:14:37.520 --> 0:14:40.800 under the bus from the moment October seventh started. But 0:14:40.840 --> 0:14:43.320 he also is someone that can deal with the European 0:14:43.400 --> 0:14:46.480 Union and other Western diplomats that I think what the 0:14:46.520 --> 0:14:50.040 Palestinians want now is to widen the circle of who's negotiating. 0:14:50.320 --> 0:14:53.640 They also have to navigate the fact that Mahmudabas, the 0:14:54.000 --> 0:14:58.760 extremely elderly, decrepit and corrupt head of the Palestinian authority, 0:14:59.160 --> 0:15:02.040 is not represented of the Palestinian people. While he was 0:15:02.120 --> 0:15:04.200 blocked from coming into the US to go to the 0:15:04.240 --> 0:15:07.360 United Nations, General Assembly. He was allowed to be on 0:15:07.440 --> 0:15:12.120 the sidelines of the Charmel Shaiks scam summit, but he 0:15:12.200 --> 0:15:14.720 wasn't a full participant. And I think that there's a 0:15:14.720 --> 0:15:17.080 way in which Israel, even though they say, oh, we 0:15:17.120 --> 0:15:19.880 don't want the Palestinian authority, they would prefer it because 0:15:19.880 --> 0:15:22.640 they've always gotten what they wanted there. So from the 0:15:22.680 --> 0:15:25.800 Palestinian perspective, I think they want as many different interests 0:15:25.840 --> 0:15:28.040 represented at the table because they feel like it is 0:15:28.080 --> 0:15:31.160 an existential question now for the future of Palestine. From 0:15:31.160 --> 0:15:34.560 the Yahoo's perspective, he wants to have Hamas and Islamic 0:15:34.640 --> 0:15:38.000 Jihad be the representatives of Palestine. And yes, Hamas is 0:15:38.040 --> 0:15:42.880 a very popular political entity within the fabric of Palestinian society, 0:15:43.040 --> 0:15:45.320 but they're not the only one. It's a pluralistic society 0:15:45.360 --> 0:15:48.160 with a diversity of views. So who's going to be 0:15:48.200 --> 0:15:51.800 on this technocratic committee is a big question. Is it 0:15:51.840 --> 0:15:54.800 going to just be a kind of discussion group that's 0:15:54.840 --> 0:15:58.440 overseen by, you know, the United States for all practical purposes, 0:15:58.560 --> 0:16:00.320 the Tony Blair thing. I don't know that that's actually 0:16:00.320 --> 0:16:02.000 going to happen, but it does seem Trump's intent on 0:16:02.040 --> 0:16:04.760 this questions about who's going to constitute this so called 0:16:04.800 --> 0:16:06.120 international security force. 0:16:06.200 --> 0:16:07.880 There was a piece in the New York Times this morning. 0:16:08.040 --> 0:16:10.320 I think a lot of nations are really concerned about that, 0:16:10.600 --> 0:16:14.360 especially Arab nations. The populations of all of these Arab 0:16:14.360 --> 0:16:17.280 golf nations in the broader Islamic world, they're furious that 0:16:17.320 --> 0:16:18.280 their governments did. 0:16:18.160 --> 0:16:20.640 Nothing about this. So then they're going to go and deploy, 0:16:20.960 --> 0:16:22.400 And I think that the concern. 0:16:22.560 --> 0:16:24.680 Yeah, I agree with your skepticists, and we've talked about 0:16:24.720 --> 0:16:27.080 this before, but like they're going to deploy and then 0:16:27.200 --> 0:16:29.560 either they're going to get killed and so called friendly 0:16:29.600 --> 0:16:33.160 fire incidents by Israel, raising questions about how their nations respond, 0:16:33.480 --> 0:16:37.360 or they essentially get co opted into becoming agents of 0:16:37.440 --> 0:16:38.440 Israeli repression. 0:16:38.840 --> 0:16:41.480 So the question of whether this is tenable is not 0:16:41.520 --> 0:16:42.000 just one. 0:16:41.800 --> 0:16:43.560 For like, the one of the Palestinians going to agree 0:16:43.600 --> 0:16:46.760 to Trump is in bed with all of these Arab 0:16:46.800 --> 0:16:50.880 golf countries on multiple levels, personal and business of the government. 0:16:51.680 --> 0:16:54.840 And you have a very vicious, insidious net Yahoo and 0:16:54.920 --> 0:16:58.640 his team on the sidelines trying to poke at whatever 0:16:58.680 --> 0:17:01.120 Trump is doing. And then you have the Palestinians who 0:17:01.120 --> 0:17:03.800 should be the most central voice, and yet they don't 0:17:03.800 --> 0:17:06.920 allow any Palestinians to participate in a so called peace 0:17:06.960 --> 0:17:08.960 summit about Palistinites. 0:17:09.000 --> 0:17:11.320 Crazy. 0:17:12.320 --> 0:17:14.680 I can't move away from everything you're talking about, which 0:17:14.720 --> 0:17:19.560 is and I brought this up every day civilian administration. So, Hamas, 0:17:19.600 --> 0:17:23.359 you know the war temporarily pauses. Yes, you know they're 0:17:23.440 --> 0:17:25.959 imposing some law and order. We may not like how 0:17:25.960 --> 0:17:28.440 it looks, but that's you know, that's what how they 0:17:28.440 --> 0:17:29.919 want to do it. Yeah, they brought it in and 0:17:29.960 --> 0:17:32.439 they shot people who they accused of being collaborators. I 0:17:32.520 --> 0:17:34.320 was like, yeah, that's what happens when you have a 0:17:34.359 --> 0:17:36.760 security vacuum. You literally blew this place and made it 0:17:36.800 --> 0:17:39.080 look like, in the words, a nuclear bomb went off. 0:17:39.119 --> 0:17:41.359 I didn't say that, Jared Kushner said that. And so 0:17:41.520 --> 0:17:42.800 what do you think is going to happen? And so 0:17:42.840 --> 0:17:45.720 the supposed civil administration, I believe all three of us 0:17:45.800 --> 0:17:48.280 are in this business literally because of the war in 0:17:48.320 --> 0:17:49.880 Iraq and Afghanistan. 0:17:49.920 --> 0:17:50.920 What did we all witness? 0:17:50.960 --> 0:17:53.800 We collapsed the government, the centralized authority, they broke into 0:17:54.280 --> 0:17:58.200 warlord faction, civil wars happened. We bore the responsibility. We're 0:17:58.240 --> 0:18:01.240 asking Hamas disarmament. How is that possible? Who is going 0:18:01.240 --> 0:18:04.679 to civil administer? You guys had a story recently just 0:18:04.760 --> 0:18:07.840 highlighting the issue. You guys estimate that nearly one million 0:18:07.920 --> 0:18:10.879 of Gaza's one point one million olive trees have been destroyed, 0:18:11.080 --> 0:18:13.560 a long time sector of their economy, not to mention 0:18:13.920 --> 0:18:16.400 just their tradition. So what is You know, the Arab 0:18:16.520 --> 0:18:20.280 nations are going to come in and do some coin counterinsurgency. 0:18:20.440 --> 0:18:21.840 It's not going to happen like so they're going to 0:18:21.880 --> 0:18:25.000 get blown up in crossfire. Not to mention unexploded ordinance. 0:18:25.040 --> 0:18:27.480 This is a war zone. How is anybody able to 0:18:27.520 --> 0:18:31.120 govern this if it is not the Palestinian Gazans themselves, which, 0:18:31.119 --> 0:18:32.960 of course the Israelis don't want to see. 0:18:33.080 --> 0:18:36.880 And remember, even up right up until the closing hours 0:18:37.840 --> 0:18:40.679 prior to the ceasefire, Israeli forces were going on a 0:18:40.680 --> 0:18:45.760 systematic arsen campaign and attacking basic infrastructure, water treatment facilities, 0:18:45.760 --> 0:18:49.440 as well as a further flattening of residential buildings, saying 0:18:49.440 --> 0:18:52.159 that they're terrorist infrastructure. We're talking about apartment buildings that 0:18:52.160 --> 0:18:54.399 they're not. Nown So Israel still has its eye on 0:18:54.520 --> 0:18:58.919 the goal of annihilation of Palestinians in Gaza. But the 0:18:59.000 --> 0:19:01.320 law and order, so to speak, that you're raising is 0:19:01.320 --> 0:19:04.280 a really vital question. Remember what happened when Bush and 0:19:04.359 --> 0:19:09.199 Cheney decided to overthrow Saddam Hussein's government. The most disastrous 0:19:09.480 --> 0:19:12.920