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Speaker 1: It's the son of which podcast. I'm your host, Claude Harmon.

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Speaker 1: This week on the pod we had him on. I

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Speaker 1: think back in twenty twenty two, Mark Blackburn one of

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Speaker 1: the best and hottest golf instructors on the planet. Don't

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Speaker 1: take my word for it, PGA of America Teacher of

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Speaker 1: the Year, Golf Magazine Top one hundred instructor, but Golf

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Speaker 1: died just top instructor on their top fifty list. Works

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Speaker 1: with a number of really really good players, Max Homa,

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Speaker 1: Justin Rose, and we kind of dive into their performances

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Speaker 1: this year in the majors, breakout years. I think for

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Speaker 1: both of them Majors, it's been a while since you. Obviously,

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Speaker 1: Justin Rose has had a chance to win a major.

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Speaker 1: He made a run at the Open Championship. Maxhoma had

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Speaker 1: a chance on the weekend going into Augusta. But I'm

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Speaker 1: lucky that I get to spend a lot of time

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Speaker 1: with Mark on tour, picking his brain, talking to him. Listen,

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Speaker 1: when we're out on tour, we spent a lot of

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Speaker 1: time waiting waiting for the guys to come out and

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Speaker 1: hit balls, waiting for him to practice and stuff. So

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Speaker 1: specifically at the majors. I think I get to spend

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Speaker 1: a lot of time with Mark, and he's someone who

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Speaker 1: I've always enjoyed really talking to try and pick his

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Speaker 1: brain as much as I can, and I just think

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Speaker 1: he's got great stuff. I like his perspective, I like

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Speaker 1: the stuff that he talks about. And I figured, seeing

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Speaker 1: as it's been a couple of years, we'd get him

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Speaker 1: back on the pod. So this is a good one.

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Speaker 1: Mark Blackburn, son of a Butch. My guest today is

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Speaker 1: Mark Blackburn. Mark, we had you on the Pod twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty two. You were PG Teacher of the Year in

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty Golf Magazine Top hundred. But now you are

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Speaker 1: the Golf Digest number one instructor, knocking off Butch harmon

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Speaker 1: my dad, but she had a massive run at the

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Speaker 1: top of that list and you got there.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I mean that's listen. I mean we can joke about

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Speaker 1: it and stuff like that, but from an instructor standpoint,

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Speaker 1: the Digest list was always kind of the gold standards,

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Speaker 1: whether it is now in the social media age or not.

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Speaker 1: But to follow my dad having had that massive run,

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Speaker 1: as popular as he's been and all the things he's

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Speaker 1: done in the game. That must be pretty cool for you.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think the coolest part was the fact that

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Speaker 2: I actually got to hang out with him for a day,

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Speaker 2: so that was a lot of fun. I hadn't really

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Speaker 2: done that that.

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Speaker 1: Would be that'd be cool for me. I don't get

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Speaker 1: to do that.

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Speaker 2: So we had a good time, you know, and we

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Speaker 2: probably have more similarities than I probably realized, so I

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Speaker 2: thought it was great. I mean, obviously they call it

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Speaker 2: the Butch Harmon Award, which is great in his honor,

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Speaker 2: and to be fair, they put him and Randy Smith,

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Speaker 2: Chuck Cook and all the legends on another list, so

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Speaker 2: if they still he was still on the list, we

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Speaker 2: all know he'd still win, which is you know, I'm

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Speaker 2: sure he's not very happy about that, but he is

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Speaker 2: the goat, so it is what it is. But yes,

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Speaker 2: for me personally, for my club, my academy, you know,

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Speaker 2: all the players I coach, is kind of cool to

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Speaker 2: have that accolade. And the coolest thing about this award,

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Speaker 2: as your dad rightly told me, is that you're actually

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Speaker 2: voted on by your peers. So that's that's the one thing.

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Speaker 2: So I guess for the people on the ballot, I

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Speaker 2: was voting number one. Whether I'm number one or not

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Speaker 2: is definitely up for debate. But I seem to have

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Speaker 2: swown the voters, so you know, like any election, there's

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Speaker 2: some politics. But yeah, no, it's great. I mean to

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Speaker 2: be the guy after your dad for twenty years is

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Speaker 2: very cool. And I got to meet him and hang

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Speaker 2: out and we had a good time. So yeah, I mean, look,

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Speaker 2: it doesn't make you a great teacher winning awards. They're

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Speaker 2: nice because people know what you do. But yeah, never hurts.

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Speaker 1: I got to number three on that list once and

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Speaker 1: then two years later after it's a two year cycle.

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Speaker 1: Two years later, after Brooks went to number one and

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Speaker 1: won four majors, I dropped like fifteen spots. So it's

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Speaker 1: always good, exactly. We've had a fun summer. I know,

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Speaker 1: it's been a fun year for you. We've spent a

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Speaker 1: lot of time at at Majors and it's been fun

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Speaker 1: watching you weight knuckle your two students, Max home, justin Rose,

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Speaker 1: Rosie having a chance to win the Open Max Homa

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Speaker 1: at the Masters, Max third, Rosie second. We'll get to

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Speaker 1: Rosie in a second, because I think that's a great story.

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Speaker 1: But is this a big kind of stepping stone for Max,

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Speaker 1: I mean, final round at the Masters, didn't have his

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Speaker 1: best start, shot one over, but he'd been one of

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Speaker 1: those guys that everybody was talking about, when's he going

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Speaker 1: to get in contention to win a major? When is

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Speaker 1: he going to win a major?

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Speaker 2: Now?

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Speaker 1: I think it was a huge week for Max at

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Speaker 1: the Masters. I think it's going to do him and

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Speaker 1: his career a lot of good to get in the

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Speaker 1: mix on Sunday in one of the last couple of

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Speaker 1: groups at a major championship. What's your take on the

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Speaker 1: performance and how this could be a springboard for Max

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Speaker 1: moving forward?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, no, for sure. Now. I think one of the

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Speaker 2: things that it we all kind of forget is when

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Speaker 2: you look at him coming off eleven, kind of in

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Speaker 2: the lead, I believe, and then he hits a pretty

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Speaker 2: reasonable shot on twelve and gets a horrific bounce, which

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Speaker 2: is everybody at Augusta. Hits a firm part of the

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Speaker 2: green and ends up way over there, and now he's

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Speaker 2: in an impossible situation. So he shot one over, but

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Speaker 2: I almost feel like it kind of he was right there,

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Speaker 2: and then he had a bit of bad timing, which

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Speaker 2: happens with everybody, right we all know to win a major. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: you got to play great, but you've got to get

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Speaker 2: some luck. So from that standpoint, I feel like he

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Speaker 2: put himself in a position, he enjoyed it, he relished it,

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Speaker 2: he was so excited on Saturday. I think he played

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Speaker 2: phenomenal and he came off the course and you could

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Speaker 2: see that it really had meant a lot in terms

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Speaker 2: of he'd put himself under the kosh as we say

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Speaker 2: in England, and he'd been able to deliver the goods.

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Speaker 2: And I think that that's what for you as your point,

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Speaker 2: that's a big stepping stone, like actually putting yourself in

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Speaker 2: that position in a major. It's one thing after thirty

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Speaker 2: six holes, but being able to be there after fifty

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Speaker 2: four and then having a chance back nine on Sunday,

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Speaker 2: putting yourself and that's what we all want to our

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Speaker 2: students to be able to do, is like put them

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Speaker 2: there so they have a chance. And I think being

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Speaker 2: there once, like anything right, once you've and it once,

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Speaker 2: you know you can probably do it again, and I

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Speaker 2: think the confidence you get from that is huge. I

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Speaker 2: think sometimes it can also be a bit of a

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Speaker 2: curse because you get to the next major you're like, well,

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Speaker 2: I should win this one because I did really well,

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Speaker 2: and I think then you're going to have that expectation,

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Speaker 2: but you got to be in it to win it,

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Speaker 2: so to speak. And for me, I think Max definitely

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Speaker 2: showed a lot of maturity there because he was like, Okay,

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Speaker 2: now I've put myself there. Obviously, his performances in the

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Speaker 2: Ryder Cup we were both in Rome together arguably probably

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Speaker 2: was one of the better, if not the best American

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Speaker 2: player there. I think all those things. If I could

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Speaker 2: get him to play stroke play like he plays Max play,

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Speaker 2: it would be incredible. So but again, it's just one

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Speaker 2: of those things. It's just it's a different mindset for

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Speaker 2: Max play because you're never out of it and you've

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Speaker 2: got seventy two holes of stroke play, and I think

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Speaker 2: it's just a different mindset and I've talked about it,

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Speaker 2: but it's one of those things where he's definitely got

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Speaker 2: a lot of confidence. I'm you know, our job as

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Speaker 2: a coach is a part shrink and we you know, look,

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Speaker 2: there's a lot of evidence here for your student, Max,

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Speaker 2: this guy, look what you've done and accomplished that you've

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Speaker 2: got the ability to do it. And I would argue

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Speaker 2: that the Ryder Cup has more pressure. He took an

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Speaker 2: unplayable got it up and down to you know what

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Speaker 2: I mean, there's things that if you can thrive in

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Speaker 2: that environment, then majors arguably you should be able to

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Speaker 2: do it as well. So I think that was validation

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Speaker 2: Masters that he could do it. I think twenty four

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Speaker 2: or twenty five will be even better. I think, you know,

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Speaker 2: we're starting to put some pieces in play working towards that,

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Speaker 2: and I think having been there and done it makes

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Speaker 2: it a lot easier to put yourself back there. As

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Speaker 2: you well know, with all the majors you got.

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Speaker 1: When you look at Max, how much of getting to

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Speaker 1: that next level and being a guy that is in

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Speaker 1: the mix mark all the time in major championships is

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Speaker 1: technical in golf swing? And how much of it do

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Speaker 1: you think from Max is mental? Because Max always looks

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Speaker 1: to me like he's very much an emotional player. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I think we saw that at the Open Championship at Troon.

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Speaker 1: He hooped it what from like thirty forty feet on

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Speaker 1: Friday to make the cut and showed a lot of emotion.

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Speaker 1: I think Max where is his emotions outwardly? Honestly you

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Speaker 1: kind of know what you're going to get with him,

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Speaker 1: and I think that's one of the reasons why he's

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Speaker 1: such a fan favorite. But how much of getting to

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Speaker 1: that next level and competing and having chances to win majors,

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Speaker 1: you know, two, three, four times a year do you feel,

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Speaker 1: as his coach is the technique side of things and

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Speaker 1: how much of it do you think is the mental

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Speaker 1: side of things and the belief side of things.

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Speaker 2: Yeah? No, I think that it's a balance, right. You

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Speaker 2: have all of these ingredients that going towards it. We

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Speaker 2: all think of all of his players got a great swing,

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Speaker 2: and they're just going to be great. But it's not

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Speaker 2: necessarily all about that. So you've got to be able

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Speaker 2: to understand your swing, know how it works under certain conditions,

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Speaker 2: and what are your tendencies in stress under pressure, and

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Speaker 2: then managing that and then so that becomes mental and emotional, right,

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Speaker 2: And you can have bad holes and bogies don't kill

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Speaker 2: you in majors. You just need to avoid these big numbers,

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Speaker 2: and it's just trying to navigate it. And it's a

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Speaker 2: little bit like where am I going to take my opportunities.

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Speaker 2: I've used the analogy a lot. I didn't come up

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Speaker 2: with it. But it's like playing craps at the casino.

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Speaker 2: You go in, you cut your chips in, and you

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Speaker 2: don't change your strategy. If you lose in the first

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Speaker 2: you know, twenty minutes, you keep doing it because you

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Speaker 2: know you're going to get your run, just like a

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Speaker 2: deck of cards at a blackjack table. So it's just understanding,

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Speaker 2: I've got to be able to have a sure game.

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Speaker 2: I call it a defense that you can navigate the

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Speaker 2: bad time, but because you know you're going to get

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Speaker 2: your run and as long as your offense is good

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Speaker 2: enough and you make enough birdies, you should be able

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Speaker 2: to have a chance to play well. And I think

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Speaker 2: for Max it's one of those things. He's got ossive

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Speaker 2: offenses good is really really good. He's not putting maybe

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Speaker 2: quite as well as he did last year, and arguably

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Speaker 2: hasn't hit it quite as well, but it's like he

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Speaker 2: has in Spurts, played beautifully well. Understanding that you don't

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Speaker 2: have to have your best to contend. That part then

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Speaker 2: becomes very very mental. I mean, you look at Nicholas,

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Speaker 2: you look at wo Stay one, lots of events kind

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Speaker 2: of hanging around. Even your guy Brooks talks about everybody

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Speaker 2: does something different in a major. So it's more a

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Speaker 2: question of being comfortable in the uncomfortable, thriving in the chaos,

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Speaker 2: and knowing I just hang around enough, I'm probably going

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Speaker 2: to get my run and that. And that's all I

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Speaker 2: think Max has got to do is just put himself

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Speaker 2: back in that situation. I don't think he has to

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Speaker 2: really do anything massively different. Is just be comfortable being

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Speaker 2: uncomfortable and just know that, Hey, majors aren't easy. Got

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Speaker 2: to get a bit of luck, You got to get

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Speaker 2: the right side of the draw, got to be able

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Speaker 2: to you know, navigate more when I'm going to have

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Speaker 2: some bad holes. That's where your short game comes in.

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Speaker 2: And so that the belief system that you've done it

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Speaker 2: and you've had you've had a chance, that to me

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Speaker 2: is huge because you know what to expect because when

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Speaker 2: you get there again, it's not uncommon to you. Right.

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Speaker 2: That's why I think like all the players once they

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Speaker 2: won once, now when they get in the situation again,

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Speaker 2: they know how to close. So you get guys that

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Speaker 2: are perennial closes of events because they put themselves in

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Speaker 2: that situation. And I think Majors is just kind of

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Speaker 2: the next progression from that.

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Speaker 1: Golf swing wise, talk to us about what you guys

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Speaker 1: are working on and what are the keys that you

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Speaker 1: think makes his swing good, and what are the things

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Speaker 1: that what are the habits that he falls into that

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Speaker 1: all players have habits and DNA signatures, but what are

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Speaker 1: the things that you guys are working on day in

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Speaker 1: and day out, and what are the things that he

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Speaker 1: is kind of reverts back to that you guys are

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Speaker 1: trying to have him not do.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a great question. So I think inherently we

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Speaker 2: try and give him a golf swing that's kind of

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Speaker 2: He's a kind of long guy, right, and you would

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Speaker 2: think he'd have this big wide arc, and he tried

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Speaker 2: to play like that way for a while when he

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Speaker 2: first came on twenty wasn't successful. So after looking at

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Speaker 2: in movement wise screening him, you know a lot of

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Speaker 2: the TPI stuff I learned from David greg who was

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Speaker 2: that that's probably not a good match for you. Probably

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Speaker 2: better off with a bit of a Laura arm playing

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Speaker 2: to match your your body's mobility. And then you know,

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Speaker 2: how do you try and get the club on the ball.

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Speaker 2: What are you doing? And so for him, maintaining his

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Speaker 2: dynamic posture is a big deal. When he does that

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Speaker 2: and he's not standing up and out of it, he

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Speaker 2: hits the ball beautifully well. Now, he also is very

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Speaker 2: powerful and one of the best things he's got is

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Speaker 2: a lot of vertical so when he starts jumping to

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Speaker 2: try and hit it further, at times he can start

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Speaker 2: thrusting towards the ball and he loses that posture and

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Speaker 2: then he kind of loses the face. So what we're

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Speaker 2: working on is that balance between having enough speed but

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Speaker 2: then also maintaining that posture. So I was actually in

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Speaker 2: the desert for a couple of days with him this

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Speaker 2: past weekend, just working on trying to maintain that. Work

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Speaker 2: on that in the gym, like train that movement pattern,

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Speaker 2: so he has a chance to be able to still

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Speaker 2: generate the speed but maintain his posture. So he doesn't

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Speaker 2: have a lot of play in the club. He's one

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Speaker 2: of those players that likes to feel a pretty stable face. Now,

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Speaker 2: all golfs are different, but for him, he likes to

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Speaker 2: feel that. So obviously, him starting to move his body

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Speaker 2: the handle gets high, kind of loses the face. You

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Speaker 2: see it more. It's more of a detriment in his

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Speaker 2: driving when the handle gets high and then he starts

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Speaker 2: to miss them out to the right, gets it in

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Speaker 2: the heel. So he's really trying to we live in

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Speaker 2: kind of a more a lower and a cut pattern

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Speaker 2: to try and offset that. Obviously cutting the driver is

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Speaker 2: a lot better, but that's where kind of we're working on,

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Speaker 2: And I think having a player having a better understanding

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Speaker 2: of that and then knowing their tendency and competition, well,

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Speaker 2: ok I feel like I'm doing it with what are

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Speaker 2: the strategies I can put in place to offset that

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Speaker 2: until I can go get a good feel for it

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Speaker 2: on the range, et cetera. So I think that's one

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Speaker 2: of the things that we're probably trying to focus on

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Speaker 2: from a technique perspective. But he does some things that

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Speaker 2: are really really well. Is a great iron player, but

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Speaker 2: we build it around okay, knowing I'm not going to

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Speaker 2: have a bunch of excessive movement. He's got that great tempo.

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Speaker 2: But again, he gets into a trouble sometimes when he

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Speaker 2: just comes up and out of his posture, which is

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Speaker 2: a lot of people, but specifically for him because he

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Speaker 2: wants to fade it. He doesn't do really well for

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Speaker 2: a long period of time. If he's got face flash,

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Speaker 2: some players thrive with that can play really well. That's

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Speaker 2: just difficult for him. So that's kind of our moving

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Speaker 2: forwards Winter PROJECTIV Life It twenty five is to just

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Speaker 2: keep working towards that so that he can hit the

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Speaker 2: middle of the face more often, keep the same amount

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Speaker 2: of dynamic laugh, same face angle, very predictable shots.

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Speaker 1: For everyone listening that you know that would try and

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Speaker 1: have a picture of what that looks like. The opposite

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Speaker 1: of that would be someone who want to major that.

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Speaker 1: My dad worked with Jimmy Walker. Jimmy had a lot

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Speaker 1: of thrust, a lot of early extension, the handle would

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Speaker 1: get really high, He had a lot of face rotation.

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Speaker 1: He played a lot through rhythm and timing, so that

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Speaker 1: dynamic posture. There are a lot of people, I mean,

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Speaker 1: that's that's a word that you and I and all

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Speaker 1: the instructors that are listening and the players they're used

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Speaker 1: to hearing that. But for the regular golfer, that's that's

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Speaker 1: listening mark dynamic posture for you and for them means what. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Just so when we set up at address with bent

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Speaker 2: overright and anger, we play golf kind of side on

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Speaker 2: and our torsos bent forwards, and we kind of have

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Speaker 2: a little bit of hinge in the pelvis or your hips.

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Speaker 2: So ideally, what you'd like to do is just imagine

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Speaker 2: that you're rotating around that and unfortunately, if you start

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Speaker 2: to stand up and move into the ball, basically now

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Speaker 2: you're losing that sort of axis that you set up

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Speaker 2: and address. You have to compensate. Now, the best players

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Speaker 2: have the best compensations they can manage. Jimmy Walker, Jeff Ogilvy,

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Speaker 2: there's lots of guys in one majors being phenomenal at

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Speaker 2: it right. But there's a timing element. So what happens

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Speaker 2: is then you get a period of time where you're

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Speaker 2: on and then you can kind of be off. Like

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Speaker 2: and what we want to try and do now we're

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Speaker 2: playing on these elevated events and we want to know

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Speaker 2: when we want to play well. It would be easier

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Speaker 2: if we could just maintain that axis of rotation our

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Speaker 2: posture dynamically because we're moving, hence the dynamic, it would

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Speaker 2: be a lot easier. There'd be less manipulation needed in

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Speaker 2: the club face. Theoretically we'd be able to hit some shots.

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Speaker 2: But Jack Nicholas early extended and moved into the ball,

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Speaker 2: so you can do it right. But it's one of

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Speaker 2: those things where for certain players it's probably much more

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Speaker 2: important for them to maintain it than other players. Arguably,

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Speaker 2: if you want to fade it, start the ball left,

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Speaker 2: fall right. As soon as you start moving into the

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Speaker 2: golf ball or thrusting, you're going to kind of open

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Speaker 2: the face up shift things out to the right. It's

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Speaker 2: great if you aimed thirty yards left and hit a

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Speaker 2: push cut, but it's not very good if you want

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Speaker 2: to start the ball online to left and hit a fade.

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Speaker 2: So that's what why I would call dynamic posture. I

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Speaker 2: think that if you use your body well and you're

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Speaker 2: strong and you do the right things, you guys on

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Speaker 2: the tour. The guys do it anyway because it's the

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Speaker 2: most effective way to generate speed. If you look at

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Speaker 2: long drivers, very rarely do any of them. Actually they

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Speaker 2: all extend and jump, but they don't do it early.

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Speaker 2: They're super strong and get out the way. They're using

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Speaker 2: a lot of falls. So I think that's the thing. Also,

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Speaker 2: probably what we knew twenty twenty five years ago when

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Speaker 2: you and I were playing golf learning it. Maybe thirty

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Speaker 2: years ago, there was a lot more lateral motion in

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Speaker 2: the golf, like side to side, which arguably might promote

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Speaker 2: some of that thrust and jumping and then tossing the

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Speaker 2: club face equipment could have done it. Whereas now you

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Speaker 2: can work in a little bit more of a sort

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Speaker 2: of rotary fashion, still have plenty of distance and hit

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Speaker 2: the ball a long way. So I think that's kind

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Speaker 2: of for me maintaining dynamic posture. That's kind of what

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Speaker 2: I think. I'm looking for. Consistency and if I can

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Speaker 2: do some things that help you be more consistent, have

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Speaker 2: less manipulation at the handle, hit the ball straighter, that's

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Speaker 2: a big deal for a tour player. May not be

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Speaker 2: such a big deal for a long driver, but straight

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Speaker 2: it's a big deal for a tour player.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. And I think one of the things that the

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Speaker 1: average golfer, non competitive tour player, recreational golfer, struggles with

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Speaker 1: is the speed element, right. I mean, when they do

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Speaker 1: have that early extension, the body stalls out and they're

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Speaker 1: not blessed with natural speed like people that are playing

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Speaker 1: at the elite tour level that have a lot of rotation,

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Speaker 1: that have a lot of fast twist muscles. So the

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Speaker 1: average golfer staying in that dynamic posture is actually almost

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Speaker 1: more important to them than it is for the tour player,

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Speaker 1: because the tour player can get by with one talent.

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Speaker 1: They have good eye hand coordination, they can manage the

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Speaker 1: face through impact, and they have speed, whereas the fifteen

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Speaker 1: to twenty five handicapper doesn't have any of that. They

390
00:18:22,760 --> 00:18:26,359
Speaker 1: struggle with speed, they struggle with rotation, they struggle with

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Speaker 1: club face control. As you said, one of the things

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Speaker 1: I like about the way that you talk about golf

393
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Speaker 1: swings and work with players, but you talk a lot

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Speaker 1: about club face manipulation, and I think the regular recreational

395
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Speaker 1: golfer has so much of that, but they don't have

396
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Speaker 1: the other component of it, which is any sort of rotation.

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Speaker 1: What are some things that you think the regular everyday

398
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Speaker 1: golfer could do in their practice sessions, Mark to try

399
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Speaker 1: and manipulate and manage the club better and manipulate it less,

400
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Speaker 1: because I think everybody that's playing golf at a recreational

401
00:19:12,880 --> 00:19:17,879
Speaker 1: lever is so golf club centric. They're so everything is

402
00:19:17,920 --> 00:19:21,960
Speaker 1: about the golf club, the handle, the club face, and

403
00:19:22,080 --> 00:19:25,200
Speaker 1: they don't work backwards and realize, well, the golf club

404
00:19:25,240 --> 00:19:28,120
Speaker 1: is never going to be able to move itself unless

405
00:19:28,200 --> 00:19:30,159
Speaker 1: you pick it up and move it. It'll stay on

406
00:19:30,240 --> 00:19:34,159
Speaker 1: the ground, It'll stay in your bag forever unless somebody

407
00:19:34,480 --> 00:19:37,840
Speaker 1: picks it up and moves it. So, what is something

408
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Speaker 1: that you think is paramount for everyone listening that can

409
00:19:41,240 --> 00:19:46,359
Speaker 1: help them manipulate the club face less, which would help them.

410
00:19:46,560 --> 00:19:49,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, so obviously your hands are your best friend. The

411
00:19:49,840 --> 00:19:53,560
Speaker 2: club face is the boss, right and understanding that now,

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Speaker 2: I'm a big fan of peak own probably twenty five

413
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Speaker 2: years ago as the first person I saw it. We

414
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Speaker 2: had a I was saying about a lady golf where

415
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Speaker 2: he was teaching and he was using a Potter grip

416
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Speaker 2: to try and show her the face. And then I

417
00:20:05,880 --> 00:20:09,119
Speaker 2: was like, okay, well, I'm the tourists for using Potto

418
00:20:09,160 --> 00:20:11,520
Speaker 2: grips in loads of different positions to get people aware

419
00:20:11,520 --> 00:20:14,000
Speaker 2: of the face, right, like it's on the side, on

420
00:20:14,080 --> 00:20:18,240
Speaker 2: an angle or whatever. And to me, like club golfers,

421
00:20:18,240 --> 00:20:21,560
Speaker 2: if you want the hands have to work, right, we

422
00:20:21,640 --> 00:20:23,919
Speaker 2: talk about no hands in the swing. Will your hands

423
00:20:23,960 --> 00:20:29,040
Speaker 2: do everything? But not necessarily consciously. There's a lot of this, right.

424
00:20:29,080 --> 00:20:31,000
Speaker 2: The best players in the world have got this really

425
00:20:31,040 --> 00:20:35,080
Speaker 2: incredible unconscious competency where they just line the face up

426
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Speaker 2: and they know where it is. And they say that

427
00:20:36,760 --> 00:20:38,760
Speaker 2: they don't like to feel their hands, but their hands

428
00:20:38,800 --> 00:20:42,400
Speaker 2: are incredible. The club golfer needs to understand how can

429
00:20:42,440 --> 00:20:44,880
Speaker 2: they use their hands and how can they match them

430
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Speaker 2: up to their body. So I'm all about, look, we're

431
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Speaker 2: side onto it. Everyone thinks I have to have all

432
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Speaker 2: this twisting, like releasing the club. I mean I try

433
00:20:52,560 --> 00:20:54,280
Speaker 2: and get people to do a lot of hand work,

434
00:20:54,680 --> 00:20:58,040
Speaker 2: trail hand only, lead hand only, and understand that you know,

435
00:20:58,080 --> 00:20:59,960
Speaker 2: if you put the club down and you've got loft

436
00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:02,000
Speaker 2: it and you take it back, if you can bring

437
00:21:02,040 --> 00:21:03,960
Speaker 2: it back to a fairly similar position, maybe with a

438
00:21:04,040 --> 00:21:06,679
Speaker 2: shaft leaning forwards, the face is pretty square. There's not

439
00:21:06,720 --> 00:21:09,119
Speaker 2: a whole lot of this. We talk about release, but people,

440
00:21:09,280 --> 00:21:11,840
Speaker 2: that's not really what's happening. So with the club goalver

441
00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:15,560
Speaker 2: I like split grips, splitting your hands up so you

442
00:21:15,560 --> 00:21:19,560
Speaker 2: can understand how the hands actually work together as opposed

443
00:21:19,640 --> 00:21:22,000
Speaker 2: to you put a grip here and it just feels

444
00:21:22,000 --> 00:21:25,040
Speaker 2: a bit weird. Like the lead hand is very important,

445
00:21:25,040 --> 00:21:27,800
Speaker 2: and so the trail hand. But every golf book and

446
00:21:27,800 --> 00:21:29,720
Speaker 2: we got golf books aol over this academy, you got

447
00:21:29,720 --> 00:21:32,040
Speaker 2: a lot of players to talk about they fail their

448
00:21:32,119 --> 00:21:34,399
Speaker 2: lead hand, and you got loads of hands people have

449
00:21:34,480 --> 00:21:36,639
Speaker 2: said they felt the trowl hand. Neither of them is wrong,

450
00:21:36,720 --> 00:21:38,760
Speaker 2: but there's going to be one that works best for you.

451
00:21:38,920 --> 00:21:42,200
Speaker 2: So it's like becoming familiar with that and understanding which

452
00:21:42,280 --> 00:21:44,880
Speaker 2: is your reference point for your club face, and then

453
00:21:44,960 --> 00:21:47,480
Speaker 2: how does your body work. So if you're someone that

454
00:21:47,680 --> 00:21:51,760
Speaker 2: doesn't turn very well, you may well do well with

455
00:21:51,880 --> 00:21:54,280
Speaker 2: a bit of throw with the right hand, but if

456
00:21:54,280 --> 00:21:56,840
Speaker 2: you're someone who turns well, you'll be probably better off

457
00:21:56,840 --> 00:21:58,480
Speaker 2: with a bit of hold with the left hand. Do

458
00:21:58,520 --> 00:22:00,760
Speaker 2: you know what I mean? Like trying to understand which

459
00:22:00,800 --> 00:22:05,160
Speaker 2: one is better for you? And this is what everyone feels.

460
00:22:05,520 --> 00:22:08,240
Speaker 2: The lessons we all teach to the club golfers that

461
00:22:08,600 --> 00:22:10,400
Speaker 2: you know, one side we have club players, the other

462
00:22:10,440 --> 00:22:13,000
Speaker 2: side we have tool players. It's like the club golfers

463
00:22:13,080 --> 00:22:15,359
Speaker 2: is a lot more about showing them out a square

464
00:22:15,359 --> 00:22:17,640
Speaker 2: a club face and what happens so they can then

465
00:22:18,040 --> 00:22:20,879
Speaker 2: learn to swing in the right direction. Tour players is

466
00:22:20,920 --> 00:22:23,399
Speaker 2: more about they know what the face is doing. We

467
00:22:23,520 --> 00:22:26,200
Speaker 2: got to show them whether the planes over here or

468
00:22:26,240 --> 00:22:27,880
Speaker 2: your eight you know what I mean. It's it's kind

469
00:22:27,880 --> 00:22:31,160
Speaker 2: of inverse. But the club golfer, if we can show

470
00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:34,040
Speaker 2: them how to use these less but in the right way,

471
00:22:34,920 --> 00:22:36,920
Speaker 2: a lot of times now they have an incentive to

472
00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:39,320
Speaker 2: maybe use their body a little bit or in the

473
00:22:39,359 --> 00:22:41,479
Speaker 2: way that's best for them. And I think that's the

474
00:22:41,520 --> 00:22:44,600
Speaker 2: part that we've got to understand. It's why moving, you know,

475
00:22:44,680 --> 00:22:47,719
Speaker 2: a movement assessment's massive. I want to know what somebody

476
00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:49,720
Speaker 2: can do. Some people look like they're not very good

477
00:22:50,160 --> 00:22:52,479
Speaker 2: movement wise. They're covered and they are incredible, and then

478
00:22:52,520 --> 00:22:54,480
Speaker 2: there's some people are like, man, this this lady, she

479
00:22:54,760 --> 00:22:58,960
Speaker 2: looks really athletic, and they're useless moving right. It's guys girls,

480
00:22:58,960 --> 00:23:02,080
Speaker 2: So it's trying to assess them and then figure out,

481
00:23:02,400 --> 00:23:04,280
Speaker 2: you know, which word's going to work better for them,

482
00:23:04,280 --> 00:23:07,159
Speaker 2: and then what can they do with this? Because club golfers,

483
00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:09,800
Speaker 2: if they can put the club on the ball and

484
00:23:09,840 --> 00:23:12,119
Speaker 2: make it go towards a target, they're kind of hooked.

485
00:23:12,320 --> 00:23:14,880
Speaker 2: Make it easy for them, but then make them understanding

486
00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:17,720
Speaker 2: most of them move badly, and then these have to

487
00:23:17,760 --> 00:23:20,160
Speaker 2: do the wrong thing, Whereas if you can educate these

488
00:23:20,160 --> 00:23:23,360
Speaker 2: to do the right thing, sometimes their body isn't quite

489
00:23:23,400 --> 00:23:26,800
Speaker 2: as crazy. But the funniest thing is that club golfers

490
00:23:27,680 --> 00:23:31,560
Speaker 2: search for speed. Extension itself is speed, right, early extension

491
00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:33,320
Speaker 2: you can argue get you more speed, but they never

492
00:23:33,400 --> 00:23:36,240
Speaker 2: hit it in the middle of the damn face sentence.

493
00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:38,680
Speaker 1: It doesn't do you any good, correct.

494
00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:42,040
Speaker 2: Right, So scentedness of hit is everything. If you can

495
00:23:42,080 --> 00:23:44,600
Speaker 2: hit it in the middle and have high smash, whatever

496
00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:46,479
Speaker 2: speed you got, you're putting out to the club. So

497
00:23:46,520 --> 00:23:50,600
Speaker 2: to me, that's more important than potentially trying to go

498
00:23:50,680 --> 00:23:52,280
Speaker 2: after a bunch of speed where you never hit the

499
00:23:52,280 --> 00:23:53,280
Speaker 2: thing in the middle of the face.

500
00:23:57,520 --> 00:23:59,720
Speaker 1: You started working with Justin Rose, but I think in

501
00:23:59,800 --> 00:24:02,600
Speaker 1: no like end of twenty twenty two he was a

502
00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:04,920
Speaker 1: major champion. I think the work that he and Sean

503
00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:08,560
Speaker 1: Foley did turned him into one of the elite ball

504
00:24:08,600 --> 00:24:13,359
Speaker 1: strikers of the last fifteen years. I mean, Rosie was

505
00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:16,760
Speaker 1: an elite ball striker. What was the remit when he

506
00:24:16,800 --> 00:24:20,200
Speaker 1: came to you at the end of twenty twenty two

507
00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:23,560
Speaker 1: and what have you tried me? What's Rosie now? Early forties?

508
00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:25,920
Speaker 2: He actually just turned forty four last.

509
00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:28,800
Speaker 1: Week, forty four, So you know, when you get a

510
00:24:28,840 --> 00:24:31,520
Speaker 1: player like that, I mean, he's done everything in the game, right,

511
00:24:31,560 --> 00:24:34,800
Speaker 1: I mean, there isn't anything that he hasn't done, Ryer Cups,

512
00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:40,359
Speaker 1: FedEx Majors, big tournaments, number one in the world. But

513
00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:43,199
Speaker 1: what was what was he looking for? And what was

514
00:24:43,440 --> 00:24:47,080
Speaker 1: what you to tried to do together and have done,

515
00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:50,720
Speaker 1: you know, incredibly successfully over the last two years. You know,

516
00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:54,679
Speaker 1: to finish second in a major on home soil for

517
00:24:54,800 --> 00:24:59,520
Speaker 1: Rosie at forty four, that's that's there aren't a lot

518
00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:01,040
Speaker 1: of people doing that at his age.

519
00:25:01,359 --> 00:25:04,080
Speaker 2: And he came through local qualifying too.

520
00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:06,160
Speaker 1: He did, that's right local. I mean the fact that

521
00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:09,520
Speaker 1: the fact that Justin Rows has to qualify from major

522
00:25:09,640 --> 00:25:13,720
Speaker 1: championships is to me is a joke. I mean it's

523
00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:18,800
Speaker 1: I personally believe if you win a major, you should

524
00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:22,320
Speaker 1: be there's got to be a category that can get

525
00:25:22,359 --> 00:25:24,600
Speaker 1: you in to where you don't have to go to

526
00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:28,119
Speaker 1: local qualifying having been a major champ. And I know

527
00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:31,880
Speaker 1: it's a cool part of the story and everybody loves

528
00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:33,880
Speaker 1: it and it's a great story, but I think it's bullshit.

529
00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:37,359
Speaker 1: I think if you've won a major, you shouldn't be

530
00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:38,560
Speaker 1: going to local qualifying.

531
00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:41,080
Speaker 2: I just don't believe that they call it final qualifying.

532
00:25:41,080 --> 00:25:46,280
Speaker 2: But you're right, so I think it's pretty funny actually,

533
00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:49,520
Speaker 2: so I had to there's a story to this, I've

534
00:25:49,520 --> 00:25:55,840
Speaker 2: told it before, but essentially, Rosie's at Houston and I'm

535
00:25:55,840 --> 00:25:59,000
Speaker 2: at Houston, and I owed Phil Kenny in a favor,

536
00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:02,640
Speaker 2: so I had to persuade Kennyan to help Homer putt

537
00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:05,840
Speaker 2: on putting, right, So I owed Kenny in a favor.

538
00:26:06,840 --> 00:26:11,200
Speaker 2: So anyone who knows Phil Kenyan is he's quite persuasive anyway.

539
00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:12,880
Speaker 1: So he's the darn king of putting.

540
00:26:13,119 --> 00:26:15,840
Speaker 2: Yeah he is. But anyway, so long story short, he

541
00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:18,240
Speaker 2: asked me, he goes, I need you to have to

542
00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:21,240
Speaker 2: have a look at Rosie. So that's kind of how

543
00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:24,639
Speaker 2: it started. And then Rosie came to me. And I

544
00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:29,000
Speaker 2: think one of the things that's interesting about Rosie is

545
00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:31,600
Speaker 2: he's had a lot of success, right, but he's notoriously

546
00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:37,359
Speaker 2: a tinkerer. And I'm Sean's incredible that he went through

547
00:26:37,359 --> 00:26:40,639
Speaker 2: that for fifteen years, which is unbelievable. Now, Sean and

548
00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:43,320
Speaker 2: I have a little different coaching philosophy, sure.

549
00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:44,120
Speaker 1: Just a little.

550
00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:48,919
Speaker 2: Way different, right. I'm probably I probably would have been

551
00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:51,800
Speaker 2: terrible for Rosie when he was younger, but Sean was incredible.

552
00:26:52,119 --> 00:26:55,960
Speaker 2: I'm probably a little bit less tolerable of messing around

553
00:26:56,000 --> 00:27:01,240
Speaker 2: and trying different stuff. Let's just say that. So Rosie, obviously,

554
00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:04,040
Speaker 2: to your points, won everything. All he wants to do

555
00:27:04,119 --> 00:27:06,840
Speaker 2: is try and win majors. So he had a chance

556
00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:08,720
Speaker 2: to kind of win the PGA this year on a

557
00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:11,480
Speaker 2: course which typically wouldn't suit him, which was a lot

558
00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:13,240
Speaker 2: of validation he's doing the right things.

559
00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:15,520
Speaker 1: And then obviously because at the PGA you had to

560
00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:18,600
Speaker 1: shoot crazy low, it was a shootout, it was like

561
00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:22,080
Speaker 1: a regular PGA Tour event. And Rosie, throughout his career

562
00:27:22,119 --> 00:27:26,040
Speaker 1: and throughout the peak of his career, is one of

563
00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:27,840
Speaker 1: those players he wants the golf course to be as

564
00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:30,920
Speaker 1: hard as possible, correct, right, He doesn't want twenty under

565
00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:33,720
Speaker 1: to win, he wants one under even to win. And

566
00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:36,720
Speaker 1: when he won his major at Marion, I mean nobody

567
00:27:36,760 --> 00:27:39,440
Speaker 1: could play that golf course and the shots he hit

568
00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:42,280
Speaker 1: down the stretch there, nobody could find a way to

569
00:27:42,280 --> 00:27:44,720
Speaker 1: make any pars coming down the stretch. So he is

570
00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:49,199
Speaker 1: that category of player that wants the major championships to

571
00:27:49,359 --> 00:27:52,080
Speaker 1: be as difficult and as hard as possible. And I

572
00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:55,800
Speaker 1: think you're right, having success in a major that was

573
00:27:55,840 --> 00:27:58,399
Speaker 1: at Valhalla, which was a shootout, has got to be

574
00:27:58,480 --> 00:28:01,119
Speaker 1: validation for him to say, Okay, I can go, I

575
00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:02,000
Speaker 1: can hang.

576
00:28:02,440 --> 00:28:07,360
Speaker 2: Yeah. And I think he learned a lot at Valhalla too,

577
00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:09,760
Speaker 2: because he hadn't been in that situation in a while.

578
00:28:09,760 --> 00:28:11,960
Speaker 2: And if you asked him, he probably played the last

579
00:28:11,960 --> 00:28:15,840
Speaker 2: couple of holes slightly differently. But anyway, I digress. So

580
00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:21,520
Speaker 2: essentially success leaves clues right, And with Rosie he'd had

581
00:28:21,520 --> 00:28:23,919
Speaker 2: some back issues. He had a certain goal swing when

582
00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:26,040
Speaker 2: he won Marion and arguably when he played his best,

583
00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:28,480
Speaker 2: and he kind of reinvented it again in a seventeen

584
00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:30,520
Speaker 2: eighteen and then he kind of was all over the

585
00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:35,200
Speaker 2: place and he'd kind of liked new information, so he

586
00:28:35,359 --> 00:28:36,720
Speaker 2: kind of went and saw a bunch of a few

587
00:28:36,760 --> 00:28:39,320
Speaker 2: different people, and I think he was a little bit cluttered,

588
00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:42,440
Speaker 2: and I basically when he asked me, I said, well,

589
00:28:42,560 --> 00:28:44,840
Speaker 2: the shot you want to hit is this straight to

590
00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:47,400
Speaker 2: full left shot or what you're doing that's not going

591
00:28:47,480 --> 00:28:50,800
Speaker 2: to work? How you move, you know, what does your

592
00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:53,600
Speaker 2: body do? So I talked to Justin Buckthorpe at the

593
00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:56,800
Speaker 2: time and Charlie Marshall there kind of his team, and

594
00:28:56,960 --> 00:28:59,240
Speaker 2: we talked about what he does well, what he doesn't

595
00:28:59,280 --> 00:29:01,760
Speaker 2: do well, and I was like, Rosie, you probably need

596
00:29:01,840 --> 00:29:03,520
Speaker 2: to get back a little bit more to what you

597
00:29:03,560 --> 00:29:06,680
Speaker 2: did in two thousand and you know thirteen when you

598
00:29:06,720 --> 00:29:10,600
Speaker 2: won the Open lawa arm playing a little bit deeper,

599
00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:13,000
Speaker 2: a little bit more, turn, a little bit more in

600
00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:17,600
Speaker 2: your body, in your tilts, so to speak. And I

601
00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:20,360
Speaker 2: think that was really the nucleus of it, and has

602
00:29:20,360 --> 00:29:23,400
Speaker 2: started hitting it quite well again. But obviously he gets

603
00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:25,600
Speaker 2: a little bored with stuff, so you've got to reinvent

604
00:29:25,640 --> 00:29:28,080
Speaker 2: and say the same thing a few different ways. And

605
00:29:28,120 --> 00:29:31,360
Speaker 2: it's one of those things where we've actually got this blueprint.

606
00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:34,720
Speaker 2: It stayed pretty similar, we've deviated a little bit. We

607
00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:38,720
Speaker 2: kind of went back more towards where we originally started

608
00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:41,520
Speaker 2: kind of earlier part of this year. So I think

609
00:29:41,520 --> 00:29:44,440
Speaker 2: it's one of those things where he's a lot of

610
00:29:44,440 --> 00:29:47,280
Speaker 2: what he and Shured did really really well. I've taken

611
00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:49,760
Speaker 2: quite a bit of that, especially some of the backswing stuff,

612
00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:51,640
Speaker 2: and then with some of the stuff we now know

613
00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:53,920
Speaker 2: about ground reaction forces and kind of how it to

614
00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:56,840
Speaker 2: generate speed and power, I've kind of married some of

615
00:29:56,880 --> 00:29:59,280
Speaker 2: that now in his downswing, So he does some different

616
00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:02,560
Speaker 2: things through the all to kind of stop him sliding

617
00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:04,640
Speaker 2: and tilding quite as much. He's another one that has

618
00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:06,400
Speaker 2: a tendency to kind of pop up out of it

619
00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:09,600
Speaker 2: and then he has some face flips. So there's some

620
00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:13,880
Speaker 2: similarities between him and Max. And Rosie's pretty perceptive because

621
00:30:14,280 --> 00:30:17,000
Speaker 2: he said one of the things that it was interesting

622
00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:20,280
Speaker 2: to him was you like Max's golf swing, and so

623
00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:22,880
Speaker 2: it's as a student of the swing. He's one of

624
00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:24,920
Speaker 2: those people who wanted to understand. But they actually have

625
00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:27,280
Speaker 2: a few similarities, so it's no surprise that they've both

626
00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:31,080
Speaker 2: been somewhat successful with the pattern that they're in. But

627
00:30:31,240 --> 00:30:34,240
Speaker 2: for me, he does everything incredibly well. He is the

628
00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:39,120
Speaker 2: consummate professional, so and I for me coach in Max

629
00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:40,440
Speaker 2: who wants to get to number one in the world,

630
00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:43,160
Speaker 2: and Rosie's been there. A lot of what Rosie does

631
00:30:43,160 --> 00:30:45,280
Speaker 2: are things that I can share with my younger players,

632
00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:49,840
Speaker 2: like Alex Fitz who's in there, Matt's younger brother. It's

633
00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:52,600
Speaker 2: one of those things where, look, this is what's got

634
00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:55,080
Speaker 2: someone to number one in the world. These are the

635
00:30:55,120 --> 00:30:58,160
Speaker 2: some of the special things that they do that those

636
00:30:58,160 --> 00:31:01,280
Speaker 2: are things that you could incorporate with other players, and

637
00:31:01,320 --> 00:31:03,560
Speaker 2: we always say that we learn more from the players

638
00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:05,479
Speaker 2: than they learn from us. But in this scenario, it's

639
00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:08,520
Speaker 2: certainly the case is just okay, how can I use that?

640
00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:11,480
Speaker 2: But Rosie does the right stuff. I mean, he's got

641
00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:14,600
Speaker 2: this sub Rosa bus that this wing. We're in Greensboro.

642
00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:16,960
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I mean that's David Darbyshire. I mean I

643
00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:19,920
Speaker 1: remember darbs telling me that years ago at Augusta that

644
00:31:20,640 --> 00:31:23,600
Speaker 1: Rosie had this idea to make this like recovery bus

645
00:31:23,640 --> 00:31:25,480
Speaker 1: that I think it was. It just kind of came

646
00:31:25,520 --> 00:31:29,040
Speaker 1: out on all the social channels of this recovery bus

647
00:31:29,040 --> 00:31:33,640
Speaker 1: that Rosie's kind of come up with. I interviewed Rosie

648
00:31:33,680 --> 00:31:36,400
Speaker 1: when he was working with Sean. It's got to be

649
00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:39,040
Speaker 1: six years ago, seven years ago at Memorial he shot,

650
00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:41,640
Speaker 1: you know, a really good score there, and I think

651
00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:45,280
Speaker 1: they were kind of they really pushed the envelope mark

652
00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:48,880
Speaker 1: with track man, trying to zero everything out, all this stuff.

653
00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:51,440
Speaker 1: And I asked him about that and he said, we've

654
00:31:51,520 --> 00:31:53,560
Speaker 1: kind of got I've kind of gone away from that

655
00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:56,640
Speaker 1: with Sean. And I had to tell falls, listen, my

656
00:31:56,920 --> 00:32:00,440
Speaker 1: feels are sacred to me. What I feel in the

657
00:32:00,480 --> 00:32:02,959
Speaker 1: golf swing is sacred to me and he said, I

658
00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:05,200
Speaker 1: think sometimes you can go down the rabbit hole of

659
00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:10,480
Speaker 1: all of the numbers. So he's a very analytical guy.

660
00:32:10,520 --> 00:32:12,360
Speaker 1: I mean, I've known him a long time. He kind

661
00:32:12,360 --> 00:32:14,080
Speaker 1: of came up the ranks with Adam Scott, so I

662
00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:16,480
Speaker 1: still remember he and Scotti when they were playing on

663
00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:20,920
Speaker 1: the European Tour. Rosie's always been very very curious, very

664
00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:23,440
Speaker 1: very analytical. How do you, as a coach marry that

665
00:32:24,040 --> 00:32:26,040
Speaker 1: how much is too much? Because he's one of those

666
00:32:26,760 --> 00:32:30,600
Speaker 1: Trevor Immlman type characters, give me more information, more info,

667
00:32:30,760 --> 00:32:33,320
Speaker 1: more info, more info. So how how do you as

668
00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:37,000
Speaker 1: the coach and work with him as the player to say, Okay,

669
00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:40,640
Speaker 1: how much tech and how much info do we give

670
00:32:40,680 --> 00:32:47,480
Speaker 1: you versus how much of your feels being sacred to you?

671
00:32:47,480 --> 00:32:50,800
Speaker 1: You're the player, how do you fly the plane on

672
00:32:51,040 --> 00:32:54,160
Speaker 1: instinct as well as with all the information.

673
00:32:54,600 --> 00:32:57,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a great point. Well, I think what I

674
00:32:57,120 --> 00:32:59,920
Speaker 2: tell over every player is my job is to be

675
00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:04,280
Speaker 2: able to catalog and quantify their feels. That makes sense,

676
00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:09,560
Speaker 2: like objective. So as a team, Rosy's very fortunate Charlie

677
00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:12,360
Speaker 2: travels with him. He's got dogs out and done as well.

678
00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:16,560
Speaker 2: And then JB. So we know Rosie's been measured every

679
00:33:16,560 --> 00:33:19,840
Speaker 2: which way and Sunday and regularly, so we know what's

680
00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:24,440
Speaker 2: actually happening objectively. And Rosie's feels are subjective and they

681
00:33:24,440 --> 00:33:28,000
Speaker 2: are sacred, but feels can change daily. So as long

682
00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:31,000
Speaker 2: as Rosy's within the pattern, the blueprint that we have

683
00:33:31,200 --> 00:33:35,120
Speaker 2: from set up, back, swinging downswing and delivery, and he's

684
00:33:35,200 --> 00:33:38,280
Speaker 2: doing the right things and he's moving well, his fields

685
00:33:38,400 --> 00:33:43,680
Speaker 2: can be really abstract and radically different day to day

686
00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:46,680
Speaker 2: for the same movement, which is hard for people to

687
00:33:46,720 --> 00:33:49,360
Speaker 2: grasp and as a coach I probably didn't appreciate that

688
00:33:49,560 --> 00:33:52,400
Speaker 2: until the last few years in that my job is

689
00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:54,960
Speaker 2: to look at what they're doing. And that's why I

690
00:33:55,160 --> 00:33:58,480
Speaker 2: talk about having different vernacular with different players, but putting

691
00:33:58,560 --> 00:34:01,480
Speaker 2: their feels. So when when I commune with Rosie, I'm

692
00:34:01,520 --> 00:34:03,800
Speaker 2: giving back to him in the fields and the ways

693
00:34:03,840 --> 00:34:06,800
Speaker 2: that he teaches. But in my brain it's like, well,

694
00:34:06,800 --> 00:34:11,520
Speaker 2: that's his wording and feel for this, and so we

695
00:34:11,640 --> 00:34:14,239
Speaker 2: know what he's actually doing and needs to do, and

696
00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:17,319
Speaker 2: when he deviates from that, okay, and then how are

697
00:34:17,320 --> 00:34:19,440
Speaker 2: you going to get him back to that using some

698
00:34:19,560 --> 00:34:22,960
Speaker 2: of his vernacular, his feels and his words, and so

699
00:34:23,520 --> 00:34:26,640
Speaker 2: he uses a lot of colors. It's quite interesting. Most

700
00:34:26,680 --> 00:34:29,040
Speaker 2: people think that these players, you know, they must be

701
00:34:29,080 --> 00:34:32,279
Speaker 2: really technical, but I think they're geniuses. They take very

702
00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:35,480
Speaker 2: technical things and make them so dumb and simple that

703
00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:39,279
Speaker 2: they're incredible. By Buddy doctor will Woo, he's big on Like, look,

704
00:34:39,320 --> 00:34:43,000
Speaker 2: the best stuff is super external, super abstract because it

705
00:34:43,080 --> 00:34:48,640
Speaker 2: works under pressure, technical thinking, internalizing it is rarely does

706
00:34:48,680 --> 00:34:52,160
Speaker 2: it works sometimes, but very rare. So with Rosie, it's

707
00:34:52,200 --> 00:34:55,879
Speaker 2: all about understanding his feels, quantifying them, and then being

708
00:34:55,880 --> 00:34:58,040
Speaker 2: able to relay them back to him. And so we

709
00:34:58,120 --> 00:35:01,359
Speaker 2: have copious amounts of notes when you feel this, hey,

710
00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:04,000
Speaker 2: all this, and he's great to share. And I had

711
00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:06,600
Speaker 2: success doing this when I was dealing with Sean, So

712
00:35:06,640 --> 00:35:08,759
Speaker 2: it's like my job is to remember all of that

713
00:35:08,840 --> 00:35:12,000
Speaker 2: and then be able to bring it up when he's

714
00:35:12,040 --> 00:35:14,160
Speaker 2: in a pickle. And I think that's the part that

715
00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:17,800
Speaker 2: people don't really see. And coaching is like different to teaching.

716
00:35:17,920 --> 00:35:21,200
Speaker 2: Teaching is like getting someone to do something technically. Coaching

717
00:35:21,320 --> 00:35:23,359
Speaker 2: is then trying to bring them back to be able

718
00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:25,160
Speaker 2: to allow them to play the game. And as we

719
00:35:25,480 --> 00:35:28,359
Speaker 2: often talk about on ranges, we do good warm ups

720
00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:30,600
Speaker 2: we do bad warm ups, we perform well, we perform

721
00:35:30,640 --> 00:35:33,279
Speaker 2: badly as coaches, but some of our best work is

722
00:35:33,280 --> 00:35:36,520
Speaker 2: when we can get the player back towards their fields

723
00:35:36,520 --> 00:35:39,160
Speaker 2: that they came up with that allow them to be

724
00:35:39,200 --> 00:35:41,120
Speaker 2: able to master their swing and be able to go

725
00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:44,360
Speaker 2: play great. And for Rosie, he is abstract. He is

726
00:35:44,440 --> 00:35:47,080
Speaker 2: out there. Definitely, I have to pull him up. Don't

727
00:35:47,120 --> 00:35:49,120
Speaker 2: go down a rabbit hole, buddy. I mean, I'm not

728
00:35:49,160 --> 00:35:51,800
Speaker 2: going to use it on this podcast, but I'm English,

729
00:35:51,840 --> 00:35:54,040
Speaker 2: so you can imagine some of the language that get used.

730
00:35:54,080 --> 00:35:58,160
Speaker 2: And in our team we kind of use a lot

731
00:35:58,200 --> 00:36:01,640
Speaker 2: of it. But it is one of those things where

732
00:36:02,200 --> 00:36:04,120
Speaker 2: I think having a bit of a heavier hand and

733
00:36:04,239 --> 00:36:07,280
Speaker 2: not being scared to stick my neck out there and say, Amy,

734
00:36:07,400 --> 00:36:12,160
Speaker 2: don't be it is something that Rosie now is very

735
00:36:12,200 --> 00:36:16,160
Speaker 2: susceptible to and receptive to older in his career. When

736
00:36:16,160 --> 00:36:18,200
Speaker 2: he's younger, he probably wasn't and I probably would have

737
00:36:18,200 --> 00:36:20,319
Speaker 2: been a disaster. And that's why Foles was so good

738
00:36:20,360 --> 00:36:20,920
Speaker 2: for him.

739
00:36:21,239 --> 00:36:23,000
Speaker 1: Even though he didn't win. I mean I went through

740
00:36:23,040 --> 00:36:26,000
Speaker 1: a similar situation. The shot that he hit on Sunday

741
00:36:27,120 --> 00:36:29,640
Speaker 1: sixty seven on Sunday didn't get it done. Obviously he's

742
00:36:29,680 --> 00:36:32,239
Speaker 1: Ander wins his second major, but stand in the middle

743
00:36:32,239 --> 00:36:36,640
Speaker 1: of the sixteenth fairway. Part five, he roasts driver off

744
00:36:36,680 --> 00:36:41,360
Speaker 1: the deck because he's trying to win the tournament. I

745
00:36:41,440 --> 00:36:43,200
Speaker 1: had a similar situation when when I was working with

746
00:36:43,320 --> 00:36:47,239
Speaker 1: Ernie Els in twelve. He was ready to quit and

747
00:36:47,960 --> 00:36:50,680
Speaker 1: at the Olympic Club that the US Open that Web won,

748
00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:53,080
Speaker 1: he got in the mix. He made an eagle and

749
00:36:53,120 --> 00:36:54,600
Speaker 1: got in the mix. On the back nine, I think

750
00:36:54,600 --> 00:36:57,840
Speaker 1: it was sixteen. Pinn was back left. He was in

751
00:36:57,880 --> 00:36:59,719
Speaker 1: the middle of the fairway, I think he was one

752
00:36:59,800 --> 00:37:02,279
Speaker 1: or two back at the time, and he went right

753
00:37:02,280 --> 00:37:05,040
Speaker 1: at the flag, hit it over the flag, hitting the bunker,

754
00:37:05,080 --> 00:37:09,200
Speaker 1: ended up making bogie. But I remember thinking afterwards and

755
00:37:09,520 --> 00:37:13,680
Speaker 1: he said it, he said, we're over the hump. He's

756
00:37:13,719 --> 00:37:15,880
Speaker 1: because in that situation, it would have been very easy

757
00:37:15,880 --> 00:37:18,160
Speaker 1: for him to dump it to twenty five thirty feet,

758
00:37:18,640 --> 00:37:21,360
Speaker 1: get out of there and just but he as a

759
00:37:21,520 --> 00:37:24,319
Speaker 1: as a guy that's won major's before. Rosie's in that

760
00:37:24,360 --> 00:37:27,319
Speaker 1: category as well. Ernie was trying to win the golf

761
00:37:27,360 --> 00:37:31,439
Speaker 1: tournament and I said to myself, I think we're we're

762
00:37:31,520 --> 00:37:34,960
Speaker 1: over the issues of is he still good enough to

763
00:37:35,000 --> 00:37:38,120
Speaker 1: win again? And he won the Open a couple of

764
00:37:38,200 --> 00:37:42,680
Speaker 1: weeks later. Obviously Adam Scott helped him, but you must

765
00:37:42,680 --> 00:37:45,359
Speaker 1: have been proud of the fact that he attempted to

766
00:37:45,440 --> 00:37:48,560
Speaker 1: do that as a coach. Because driver off the deck,

767
00:37:48,920 --> 00:37:51,400
Speaker 1: they make it look easy. It's not an easy shot.

768
00:37:51,440 --> 00:37:54,040
Speaker 1: It's sure as hell is an easy shot in Scotland

769
00:37:54,040 --> 00:37:56,400
Speaker 1: off of that grass too. And then he hit a

770
00:37:56,400 --> 00:37:58,480
Speaker 1: great shot and didn't but he didn't make the putt.

771
00:37:58,520 --> 00:38:02,279
Speaker 1: But my point is he's trying to win the golf

772
00:38:02,280 --> 00:38:05,399
Speaker 1: tournament at that point and he feels like, Okay, this

773
00:38:05,480 --> 00:38:08,320
Speaker 1: is the shot. If I'm going to have any chance

774
00:38:08,520 --> 00:38:12,160
Speaker 1: with two holes left, I have to do something now.

775
00:38:12,719 --> 00:38:17,239
Speaker 1: And I think it was just vintage. Justin Rowe stand there,

776
00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:20,040
Speaker 1: driver after deck and he had a beautiful shot. It

777
00:38:20,120 --> 00:38:23,120
Speaker 1: must have been pretty satisfying for you to see that,

778
00:38:23,640 --> 00:38:25,480
Speaker 1: even though he didn't get the w Yeah.

779
00:38:25,520 --> 00:38:28,200
Speaker 2: No, The ironic part is Charlie and I are standing

780
00:38:28,200 --> 00:38:30,279
Speaker 2: on the Fairewey and I'm like, he's hitting driver. This

781
00:38:30,320 --> 00:38:34,320
Speaker 2: is unbelievable, and Rosie so doesn't. But again, he's trying

782
00:38:34,360 --> 00:38:36,880
Speaker 2: to win the golf tournament. I mean, He'll be honest,

783
00:38:37,160 --> 00:38:39,480
Speaker 2: he was trying to win the golf tournament at the PGA,

784
00:38:39,560 --> 00:38:41,600
Speaker 2: and he probably didn't quite do it the way he

785
00:38:41,640 --> 00:38:46,160
Speaker 2: wanted to, but again, he's in that situation he's like

786
00:38:46,239 --> 00:38:48,120
Speaker 2: going to take the shot on and then he actually did,

787
00:38:48,120 --> 00:38:49,839
Speaker 2: and he goes, that's the first time I've actually hit

788
00:38:49,840 --> 00:38:52,279
Speaker 2: a driver after deck in a tournament, let alone when

789
00:38:52,280 --> 00:38:54,880
Speaker 2: I'm in contention. He goes, but I wanted to like

790
00:38:55,040 --> 00:38:57,000
Speaker 2: prove to myself, Look, I'm going to take this on.

791
00:38:57,120 --> 00:38:59,480
Speaker 2: I'm not going to back down. So I think one

792
00:38:59,520 --> 00:39:02,120
Speaker 2: of the coolest things is he said that he needed

793
00:39:02,120 --> 00:39:05,200
Speaker 2: to shoot six under to win the Open. He shot

794
00:39:05,239 --> 00:39:09,520
Speaker 2: four under. He left a couple out there. He didn't

795
00:39:09,520 --> 00:39:11,440
Speaker 2: play his best round of golf, and Zana said, that's

796
00:39:11,440 --> 00:39:13,080
Speaker 2: the best round of golf he's ever played. So my

797
00:39:13,920 --> 00:39:16,040
Speaker 2: thing to Rosie was, look, there's a lot of validation.

798
00:39:16,160 --> 00:39:18,120
Speaker 2: You're doing all the right things. You've got a chance

799
00:39:18,280 --> 00:39:21,080
Speaker 2: to make history in the next five years, to be

800
00:39:21,160 --> 00:39:23,920
Speaker 2: one of the guys who's won multiple majors at your age.

801
00:39:24,600 --> 00:39:26,920
Speaker 2: You can do that. The way you take care of yourself,

802
00:39:27,000 --> 00:39:30,360
Speaker 2: the way you practice, the things, you do, the experiments.

803
00:39:30,800 --> 00:39:33,360
Speaker 2: I always say, look, if you've got wisdom and experience,

804
00:39:33,400 --> 00:39:35,400
Speaker 2: but you've got the vitality of youth. You've got this

805
00:39:35,640 --> 00:39:39,520
Speaker 2: perfect recipe to be an incredible player, and if you

806
00:39:39,520 --> 00:39:41,640
Speaker 2: can make sure you don't have any scar tissue, now

807
00:39:41,680 --> 00:39:44,560
Speaker 2: all of a sudden you can put yourself in that situation.

808
00:39:44,640 --> 00:39:47,719
Speaker 2: And obviously he's finished second in every major right, so

809
00:39:48,160 --> 00:39:51,080
Speaker 2: it's one of those things where all he cares about

810
00:39:51,120 --> 00:39:53,239
Speaker 2: is winning major championships. That is his guy. I was

811
00:39:53,239 --> 00:39:56,200
Speaker 2: playing the Ryder Cup and win majors. So he's now

812
00:39:56,280 --> 00:39:59,120
Speaker 2: got that opportunity. We can plan twenty twenty five. He's

813
00:39:59,120 --> 00:40:01,839
Speaker 2: in all the majors. We're ready to go. So I

814
00:40:01,880 --> 00:40:04,719
Speaker 2: think it's great as a coach to be part of that.

815
00:40:04,760 --> 00:40:07,640
Speaker 2: Someone that's highly motivated, a lot of experience, does the

816
00:40:07,680 --> 00:40:10,520
Speaker 2: right things, and then our job is to frame things

817
00:40:10,560 --> 00:40:12,560
Speaker 2: to where we can motivate our players. But for me,

818
00:40:13,040 --> 00:40:15,400
Speaker 2: I'm just excited that he has the opportunity to, you know,

819
00:40:15,520 --> 00:40:18,720
Speaker 2: maybe get that green jacket and win a Claric Jug

820
00:40:18,760 --> 00:40:21,680
Speaker 2: and these other things, which is as coaches, that's the

821
00:40:21,719 --> 00:40:23,960
Speaker 2: gratifying part. It's more about being a part of the

822
00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:27,279
Speaker 2: team that helps somebody be successful. So Rosie is a

823
00:40:27,280 --> 00:40:30,759
Speaker 2: lot of fun to work with. He's highly entertaining. I

824
00:40:30,800 --> 00:40:33,080
Speaker 2: think he's calmed down a lot in his older age,

825
00:40:33,120 --> 00:40:34,840
Speaker 2: which is fortunate for me as a coach.

826
00:40:40,239 --> 00:40:44,560
Speaker 1: You mentioned ground force reactions. That is a kind of

827
00:40:44,640 --> 00:40:47,360
Speaker 1: buzzword I think in instruction right now. I think a

828
00:40:47,400 --> 00:40:50,880
Speaker 1: lot of people listening may have heard that, maybe know

829
00:40:50,920 --> 00:40:53,640
Speaker 1: what it is. But for you, dumb it down for

830
00:40:53,760 --> 00:40:57,440
Speaker 1: everyone listening, what are groundforce reactions? There have been some

831
00:40:57,480 --> 00:41:00,120
Speaker 1: really cool videos. You did one with Charlie hoff and

832
00:41:00,160 --> 00:41:02,400
Speaker 1: out of TPI, but you did one with Trey MOLINACX

833
00:41:02,520 --> 00:41:05,560
Speaker 1: with this kind of thing that I bought off the internet,

834
00:41:05,560 --> 00:41:08,080
Speaker 1: that kind of sliding thing and stuff. But for you,

835
00:41:08,200 --> 00:41:11,640
Speaker 1: what are ground force reactions and what do they mean

836
00:41:11,960 --> 00:41:13,120
Speaker 1: for everyone listening?

837
00:41:13,480 --> 00:41:16,960
Speaker 2: Okay, So really simplified is so you have an action

838
00:41:17,160 --> 00:41:20,400
Speaker 2: force that's us applying a force to do something, and

839
00:41:20,440 --> 00:41:23,680
Speaker 2: then there is a reaction created from that, right, simple physics.

840
00:41:23,680 --> 00:41:27,080
Speaker 2: For every action, there's an equal and opposite reaction. So

841
00:41:27,120 --> 00:41:29,200
Speaker 2: if I apply a certain type of force, and if

842
00:41:29,239 --> 00:41:32,239
Speaker 2: I take one of my foot joys off here, basically

843
00:41:32,320 --> 00:41:37,719
Speaker 2: we've got up and down vertical, we've got right left,

844
00:41:37,960 --> 00:41:41,680
Speaker 2: and we've got frictional sort of forwards and backwards. Okay,

845
00:41:41,760 --> 00:41:44,760
Speaker 2: we call that anterior posteria this would be right left

846
00:41:44,880 --> 00:41:49,560
Speaker 2: mediolateral and then that's vertical. You can use those forces,

847
00:41:50,520 --> 00:41:54,439
Speaker 2: and this is controversial because some golf coaches don't think

848
00:41:54,480 --> 00:41:57,120
Speaker 2: you do. But the reality is, like you measure people,

849
00:41:57,200 --> 00:42:01,719
Speaker 2: whether it's conscious or unconscious. These are happening, so they're

850
00:42:01,719 --> 00:42:07,200
Speaker 2: not some phantom thing that's just I've got a fifty

851
00:42:07,360 --> 00:42:09,200
Speaker 2: expensive device in there that they have.

852
00:42:09,120 --> 00:42:12,040
Speaker 1: A swing catalyst. I mean, I mean it measures. It

853
00:42:12,160 --> 00:42:14,520
Speaker 1: tells you what people are doing with their feet and

854
00:42:14,520 --> 00:42:17,200
Speaker 1: how they're moving, pressure and all that stuff. You can

855
00:42:17,440 --> 00:42:20,239
Speaker 1: I mean, we can argue about it, or everybody can

856
00:42:20,320 --> 00:42:23,120
Speaker 1: argue about the data, but the data is real.

857
00:42:23,680 --> 00:42:26,200
Speaker 2: So the data's there. We use the gas plates that

858
00:42:26,239 --> 00:42:28,680
Speaker 2: I mean they are they're three D force plates, so

859
00:42:28,719 --> 00:42:32,680
Speaker 2: it's showing you what happens. So there's ways to you

860
00:42:32,719 --> 00:42:34,640
Speaker 2: can either put energy into the club or the handle

861
00:42:34,680 --> 00:42:36,440
Speaker 2: or at your feet. Everyone's putting at the handle, but

862
00:42:36,480 --> 00:42:39,680
Speaker 2: you can control certain situations and you can put energy

863
00:42:39,719 --> 00:42:43,560
Speaker 2: into the club by how you apply force at the ground.

864
00:42:43,560 --> 00:42:46,680
Speaker 2: So ground reaction forces, so you put an action force

865
00:42:46,719 --> 00:42:50,360
Speaker 2: in and the reaction is what happens from the words

866
00:42:50,400 --> 00:42:53,600
Speaker 2: ground reaction forces or however you want to describe it,

867
00:42:53,760 --> 00:42:56,920
Speaker 2: and Essentially, in the swing, you're you know, you're trying

868
00:42:56,960 --> 00:43:01,000
Speaker 2: to do certain things to help you deliver the golf club,

869
00:43:01,200 --> 00:43:05,440
Speaker 2: and movement at the feet can either help or hinder

870
00:43:05,480 --> 00:43:09,279
Speaker 2: how you deliver the golf club. And so essentially it's

871
00:43:09,320 --> 00:43:11,800
Speaker 2: a it's a mechanism to help you square the face

872
00:43:11,880 --> 00:43:15,759
Speaker 2: up depending on how you move. And to me, that's

873
00:43:15,800 --> 00:43:19,160
Speaker 2: an advantage that we didn't really have a few years ago,

874
00:43:19,360 --> 00:43:22,480
Speaker 2: and how you can really help players generate a lot

875
00:43:22,520 --> 00:43:25,480
Speaker 2: of speed. The best hitters, you know, the really long

876
00:43:25,560 --> 00:43:29,160
Speaker 2: they're putting about the long hitters I see in here.

877
00:43:29,320 --> 00:43:32,480
Speaker 2: Alex Fitzpatrick's a long hitter. He puts two hundred and

878
00:43:32,520 --> 00:43:36,439
Speaker 2: fifty percent of his body weight vertically into the golf ball. Too.

879
00:43:36,640 --> 00:43:39,000
Speaker 2: Average is about one ninety at TPI. We got a

880
00:43:39,040 --> 00:43:42,280
Speaker 2: great database between what I got here, what Greg's got TPI.

881
00:43:42,280 --> 00:43:46,920
Speaker 2: We got the same system. Como uses it. Steve Goulds

882
00:43:46,960 --> 00:43:49,040
Speaker 2: the creator of it. But we have enough evidence to

883
00:43:49,080 --> 00:43:52,480
Speaker 2: say this is what happens longer hitters. Long drivers put

884
00:43:52,520 --> 00:43:54,719
Speaker 2: a lot more force into the ground vertically, so they're

885
00:43:54,760 --> 00:43:57,799
Speaker 2: pushing down, they're going up, and that allows them to

886
00:43:57,840 --> 00:44:00,000
Speaker 2: pull up and on the handle and kind of speed

887
00:44:00,160 --> 00:44:02,400
Speaker 2: the club up right, because as we go up, the

888
00:44:02,520 --> 00:44:06,040
Speaker 2: handle decelerates, which feeds the head up. I mean, it's

889
00:44:06,080 --> 00:44:10,040
Speaker 2: just simple, right, Like, it's not complicated, and it's just

890
00:44:10,080 --> 00:44:12,799
Speaker 2: a great way to work and to teach people. Like

891
00:44:12,880 --> 00:44:16,400
Speaker 2: it's something that you can use. Sometimes it's difficult, sometimes

892
00:44:16,440 --> 00:44:18,760
Speaker 2: it's easy, but it's also a way to stop people

893
00:44:18,840 --> 00:44:22,239
Speaker 2: maybe moving in a certain direction. Someone like Trey that

894
00:44:22,360 --> 00:44:27,360
Speaker 2: has a hip issue, he essentially has naturally created a

895
00:44:27,400 --> 00:44:30,880
Speaker 2: mechanism to help him rotate really well to hit a

896
00:44:30,920 --> 00:44:34,600
Speaker 2: cup or he hangs on his back foot and unfortunately

897
00:44:34,600 --> 00:44:37,319
Speaker 2: that led to his fema getting driven up into his

898
00:44:37,400 --> 00:44:39,479
Speaker 2: hip and he wore out his labor on his right leg.

899
00:44:39,840 --> 00:44:41,839
Speaker 2: So we've tried to teach him in that video you

900
00:44:41,920 --> 00:44:44,120
Speaker 2: saw to get to his lead leg and use his

901
00:44:44,280 --> 00:44:47,080
Speaker 2: lead leg, which we see most of the best players

902
00:44:47,120 --> 00:44:50,279
Speaker 2: being a lot more dominant in their lead side left

903
00:44:50,320 --> 00:44:52,960
Speaker 2: leg for a right handed golfer in pushing and to

904
00:44:53,040 --> 00:44:55,520
Speaker 2: try and get himself to rotate, so we take streps

905
00:44:55,560 --> 00:44:57,320
Speaker 2: off his right hip. So that'd be an example of

906
00:44:58,080 --> 00:45:00,960
Speaker 2: ways to where you could use ground reactions forces to

907
00:45:01,040 --> 00:45:04,400
Speaker 2: help you. And then conversely, lots of players that let's

908
00:45:04,400 --> 00:45:09,040
Speaker 2: say do lose their posture dynamically, there are certain things

909
00:45:09,040 --> 00:45:12,600
Speaker 2: we can do to use the ground to flex us forwards,

910
00:45:12,640 --> 00:45:14,759
Speaker 2: to try and help us stay in our posture. So

911
00:45:14,760 --> 00:45:16,640
Speaker 2: there's a whole mirror of things. But you know what,

912
00:45:17,040 --> 00:45:21,480
Speaker 2: it's in all different sports sciences. The golf back biomechanists

913
00:45:21,480 --> 00:45:25,919
Speaker 2: and biomechanists at soccer clubs, rugby clubs, cricket clubs, they're

914
00:45:25,920 --> 00:45:29,120
Speaker 2: all using it. So the golf coaches and people who

915
00:45:29,200 --> 00:45:32,680
Speaker 2: don't necessarily think it's relevant, well, the rest of the

916
00:45:32,680 --> 00:45:35,439
Speaker 2: sports science world thinks it is. So arguably I'd say

917
00:45:35,440 --> 00:45:39,120
Speaker 2: the science generally wins over. I don't claim to be

918
00:45:39,320 --> 00:45:42,520
Speaker 2: a genius expert at it, but i feel pretty competent

919
00:45:42,520 --> 00:45:44,879
Speaker 2: with it, and I've seen lots of success using it,

920
00:45:45,239 --> 00:45:47,200
Speaker 2: and I've seen it help lots of players. So to me,

921
00:45:47,320 --> 00:45:51,239
Speaker 2: it's my responsibility to educate myself to give people the

922
00:45:51,239 --> 00:45:54,120
Speaker 2: best information possible. And as I said, and maybe on

923
00:45:54,160 --> 00:45:59,640
Speaker 2: this show before, I'd much rather get information now as

924
00:45:59,640 --> 00:46:02,400
Speaker 2: a cool give help someone another twenty years ago. But

925
00:46:02,520 --> 00:46:05,160
Speaker 2: like I say, we're practicing golf instruction just like they're

926
00:46:05,200 --> 00:46:08,400
Speaker 2: practicing medicine. We learn more, we get better, we have

927
00:46:08,440 --> 00:46:11,480
Speaker 2: better strategies, better solutions, so we can help people. And

928
00:46:11,520 --> 00:46:13,840
Speaker 2: obviously our athletes are getting bigger, faster, and stronger, and

929
00:46:13,880 --> 00:46:16,560
Speaker 2: our job is to keep them healthier longer so they

930
00:46:16,560 --> 00:46:19,840
Speaker 2: can play for all this cash that's been thrown around.

931
00:46:20,239 --> 00:46:22,560
Speaker 1: One of the things phrases that I like that you

932
00:46:22,760 --> 00:46:27,000
Speaker 1: use is feed the fault. Yeah, feeding the fault. Talk

933
00:46:27,080 --> 00:46:32,440
Speaker 1: to us what that means and how you use feeding

934
00:46:32,440 --> 00:46:34,719
Speaker 1: the fault in teaching, because I think it's a fact.

935
00:46:34,760 --> 00:46:36,600
Speaker 1: I think it's a it's a great it's a great

936
00:46:36,600 --> 00:46:38,399
Speaker 1: way to think about it. As soon as I heard

937
00:46:38,440 --> 00:46:40,240
Speaker 1: you say that, I was like, Yeah, I really really

938
00:46:40,320 --> 00:46:43,120
Speaker 1: like that. I love that kind of concept. But for

939
00:46:43,200 --> 00:46:46,280
Speaker 1: people that don't know what that is, what is feeding

940
00:46:46,320 --> 00:46:47,160
Speaker 1: the fault for you?

941
00:46:47,520 --> 00:46:51,360
Speaker 2: Okay, so let's say I'm I'm kind of coming. Was

942
00:46:51,400 --> 00:46:54,080
Speaker 2: just used as real simply let's say my hands are

943
00:46:54,080 --> 00:46:57,600
Speaker 2: shifting out, I'm coming over the top. Well, I'm going

944
00:46:57,680 --> 00:47:00,000
Speaker 2: to do some things to make you do that more

945
00:47:00,200 --> 00:47:02,880
Speaker 2: so that you have to resist and figure out. Okay, well,

946
00:47:02,920 --> 00:47:05,799
Speaker 2: how would I not make that happen? Just like if

947
00:47:05,840 --> 00:47:07,320
Speaker 2: you're moving into the ball, I'm going to move you

948
00:47:07,400 --> 00:47:10,720
Speaker 2: into the ball more so that you have to stop

949
00:47:10,760 --> 00:47:13,319
Speaker 2: yourself doing that. So by feeding the fault. I'm kind

950
00:47:13,360 --> 00:47:16,799
Speaker 2: of amplifying its significance to make it worse and then

951
00:47:16,880 --> 00:47:20,520
Speaker 2: trying to get you to counter that and intuitively figure out, well,

952
00:47:20,520 --> 00:47:22,680
Speaker 2: how would I do that? Now, I can lead you

953
00:47:22,719 --> 00:47:24,560
Speaker 2: to the solution, or I can kind of put you

954
00:47:24,560 --> 00:47:26,400
Speaker 2: in a scenario where you don't have a choice but

955
00:47:26,560 --> 00:47:29,799
Speaker 2: to do something different, which then is reflected in how

956
00:47:29,800 --> 00:47:32,759
Speaker 2: the club's moving, whether it's the club base, whether it's

957
00:47:32,760 --> 00:47:35,279
Speaker 2: the shaft, whatever it may be. So that's where I

958
00:47:35,280 --> 00:47:37,799
Speaker 2: would say, feed the fault. Like I didn't come up

959
00:47:37,800 --> 00:47:39,080
Speaker 2: with it. I think it's out of the mode of

960
00:47:39,160 --> 00:47:41,280
Speaker 2: learning world. Greg uses it quite a lot of TPI

961
00:47:41,360 --> 00:47:43,920
Speaker 2: as well, But it seems to be like if you

962
00:47:44,000 --> 00:47:47,400
Speaker 2: push someone towards what they're doing, they tend to start

963
00:47:47,440 --> 00:47:49,480
Speaker 2: to figure out a way to how to remedy that

964
00:47:49,560 --> 00:47:53,480
Speaker 2: and counter it. And now that internally they've come up

965
00:47:53,480 --> 00:47:55,239
Speaker 2: with a feel or a queue or when you do

966
00:47:55,320 --> 00:47:57,359
Speaker 2: this to me, I feel like I'm doing that. Okay,

967
00:47:57,360 --> 00:48:01,760
Speaker 2: well let's explore that. Now it's internally come from them.

968
00:48:02,120 --> 00:48:04,480
Speaker 2: Tends to have a lot more sticking power than if

969
00:48:04,680 --> 00:48:07,040
Speaker 2: I just give you a queue, right, Because back to

970
00:48:07,160 --> 00:48:10,319
Speaker 2: Rosie's comment, feels a sacred so it's like, if you

971
00:48:10,400 --> 00:48:14,280
Speaker 2: come up with the feel yourself, now, all of a sudden,

972
00:48:14,320 --> 00:48:17,759
Speaker 2: it's much more pliable and it's much more relatable to

973
00:48:17,840 --> 00:48:20,239
Speaker 2: you yourself. So that's kind of feeding the fault. I

974
00:48:20,280 --> 00:48:25,120
Speaker 2: think with anything, any sort of swing issue, whatever it

975
00:48:25,200 --> 00:48:28,719
Speaker 2: might be saying with chipping bunker shots, I'm always trying

976
00:48:28,719 --> 00:48:30,200
Speaker 2: to do that because I'm trying to get the person

977
00:48:30,200 --> 00:48:34,480
Speaker 2: to start thinking and problem solve themselves as to how

978
00:48:34,520 --> 00:48:36,239
Speaker 2: would I be able to do that right. So, let's

979
00:48:36,239 --> 00:48:39,640
Speaker 2: say somebody's chunking a chip and they're going down. They're

980
00:48:39,640 --> 00:48:42,720
Speaker 2: not using their body, they're not extending out to sholler

981
00:48:42,800 --> 00:48:45,640
Speaker 2: the club out. I might push them down even more

982
00:48:45,680 --> 00:48:48,359
Speaker 2: and then they're forcing themselves. They're having a stand up

983
00:48:48,400 --> 00:48:50,520
Speaker 2: and I'm like, okay, so how does that feel? What

984
00:48:50,520 --> 00:48:52,920
Speaker 2: are you doing now? All of a sudden they're like, oh,

985
00:48:52,960 --> 00:48:55,319
Speaker 2: I have to extem my legs in turn as I

986
00:48:55,400 --> 00:48:57,360
Speaker 2: come up. Yeah, that's what good pictures do. And you

987
00:48:57,400 --> 00:49:00,560
Speaker 2: pull up a video Jordan Speith and you're like, oh, wow,

988
00:49:00,680 --> 00:49:04,719
Speaker 2: he's doing yeah Brett Rumfan, Wow, so now you kind

989
00:49:04,760 --> 00:49:07,400
Speaker 2: of So that's how I would best describe it as

990
00:49:07,560 --> 00:49:12,799
Speaker 2: just intuitively making someone realize they probably needs to do

991
00:49:12,920 --> 00:49:15,720
Speaker 2: the opposite of what they're doing to have the right solution.

992
00:49:16,280 --> 00:49:18,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I remember when we first started going

993
00:49:18,160 --> 00:49:20,040
Speaker 1: through all the TPI stuff and going through all the

994
00:49:20,040 --> 00:49:23,120
Speaker 1: TPI screens. This has got to be back two thousand

995
00:49:23,120 --> 00:49:26,200
Speaker 1: and five, Ryan Chrysler, who works with me. Ryan and

996
00:49:26,239 --> 00:49:29,920
Speaker 1: I were talking about, you know, early extension, how to

997
00:49:30,680 --> 00:49:33,239
Speaker 1: get people to feel like their lower body didn't go

998
00:49:33,320 --> 00:49:36,000
Speaker 1: closer to the golf course or the golf ball at impact.

999
00:49:36,080 --> 00:49:38,719
Speaker 1: He said, I've got this idea. I'm going to make

1000
00:49:38,760 --> 00:49:41,640
Speaker 1: this move club. So he took a seven iron, made

1001
00:49:41,640 --> 00:49:46,080
Speaker 1: it two inches short, and made it way way flat,

1002
00:49:46,680 --> 00:49:51,160
Speaker 1: super super flat. So now if you early extend, the

1003
00:49:51,200 --> 00:49:54,719
Speaker 1: golf club is two inches shorter than your normal seven iron.

1004
00:49:54,840 --> 00:49:58,400
Speaker 1: It's massively flat. So if you do that, you basically

1005
00:49:59,080 --> 00:50:01,840
Speaker 1: can't get the golf club on the ball. You'll hit shanks,

1006
00:50:01,840 --> 00:50:05,000
Speaker 1: you'll hit tops. It just didn't work. And it's it's

1007
00:50:05,040 --> 00:50:06,840
Speaker 1: funny that you mentioned that. I just as you were

1008
00:50:06,880 --> 00:50:08,600
Speaker 1: talking about I was like, man, Ryan was doing that.

1009
00:50:08,680 --> 00:50:08,759
Speaker 2: No.

1010
00:50:09,000 --> 00:50:12,200
Speaker 1: Five. You know, I talked to the juniors a lot

1011
00:50:12,320 --> 00:50:14,600
Speaker 1: all the time. You know, when we hit you know,

1012
00:50:14,880 --> 00:50:17,520
Speaker 1: we'll have them set up, We'll have them putting alignment

1013
00:50:17,600 --> 00:50:21,520
Speaker 1: stick down. I'll film them from face on and they'll

1014
00:50:21,600 --> 00:50:23,560
Speaker 1: hit a snap hook, that one you know, that'll go

1015
00:50:23,680 --> 00:50:26,480
Speaker 1: miles to the left, and I'll be like, okay, I

1016
00:50:26,520 --> 00:50:29,439
Speaker 1: can show you the video. Your club face is dead

1017
00:50:29,480 --> 00:50:32,880
Speaker 1: square at address you. We can see where you're aiming,

1018
00:50:32,920 --> 00:50:35,439
Speaker 1: so you're not aiming there and the club face isn't

1019
00:50:35,440 --> 00:50:38,839
Speaker 1: aiming there. So if I ask you, just hit it

1020
00:50:39,080 --> 00:50:42,960
Speaker 1: forty yards left to your target. Do that again and

1021
00:50:43,000 --> 00:50:47,160
Speaker 1: they'll be like, what, No, no set up, square, club

1022
00:50:47,200 --> 00:50:51,239
Speaker 1: face square, hit me one that starts left of the

1023
00:50:51,320 --> 00:50:54,719
Speaker 1: left bunker. What would you have to do? So re

1024
00:50:54,880 --> 00:50:58,439
Speaker 1: engineering the miss Yeah, And I guess that's my way

1025
00:50:58,480 --> 00:51:03,160
Speaker 1: of feeding the fault is okay, so you're not set

1026
00:51:03,239 --> 00:51:06,239
Speaker 1: up to do this, you're doing it. What is your

1027
00:51:06,320 --> 00:51:08,720
Speaker 1: body doing and what are you doing with the golf

1028
00:51:08,719 --> 00:51:14,520
Speaker 1: club to do this? And I think reverse engineering backwards

1029
00:51:14,560 --> 00:51:18,120
Speaker 1: from that to say, okay, now what do you need

1030
00:51:18,160 --> 00:51:20,040
Speaker 1: to do to not hit the golf ball over there

1031
00:51:20,600 --> 00:51:23,960
Speaker 1: from this good set up position that you're in. I

1032
00:51:24,000 --> 00:51:26,919
Speaker 1: think it's really powerful, and you mentioned it. I think

1033
00:51:27,040 --> 00:51:32,040
Speaker 1: the power behind this is me as instructors. The best

1034
00:51:32,040 --> 00:51:34,719
Speaker 1: thing for me is when a player feels it themselves

1035
00:51:35,280 --> 00:51:37,680
Speaker 1: and they go, oh yeah. I felt that because I

1036
00:51:37,719 --> 00:51:43,799
Speaker 1: can give you. You can give a player a thousand different fields, thoughts, moves, ideas,

1037
00:51:44,239 --> 00:51:47,480
Speaker 1: but they have to then take one of them and

1038
00:51:47,520 --> 00:51:51,080
Speaker 1: go okay. I felt that one. Yes, I was able

1039
00:51:51,280 --> 00:51:54,200
Speaker 1: to do that. And I think that idea of feeding

1040
00:51:54,280 --> 00:51:57,520
Speaker 1: the fault and figuring out I think it can help

1041
00:51:57,560 --> 00:52:03,640
Speaker 1: the player figure it out themselves. Lastly, Gordon, sergeant, you

1042
00:52:03,719 --> 00:52:06,680
Speaker 1: work with him. This kid has I mean, go ahead

1043
00:52:06,640 --> 00:52:09,960
Speaker 1: and just depress everybody. What is his club at speeding?

1044
00:52:10,000 --> 00:52:12,040
Speaker 1: His ball speed is with the driver? What was he

1045
00:52:12,120 --> 00:52:16,040
Speaker 1: cruise at with just thirty six thousand feet take the seatbelt,

1046
00:52:16,040 --> 00:52:18,200
Speaker 1: sign off with the driver not trying to hit it far?

1047
00:52:18,920 --> 00:52:20,960
Speaker 1: What's he cruise at club at speeding ball speed?

1048
00:52:22,360 --> 00:52:30,120
Speaker 2: Probably eighty seven eighty eight maybe with a he's touching.

1049
00:52:31,120 --> 00:52:33,120
Speaker 2: I think he can get one to ninety knob problem

1050
00:52:33,120 --> 00:52:36,680
Speaker 2: he's not even really trying. And then his club speeds

1051
00:52:36,800 --> 00:52:39,719
Speaker 2: like high one twenties, touching one three.

1052
00:52:40,400 --> 00:52:44,040
Speaker 1: So I watched him play at the Floridian, and I

1053
00:52:44,080 --> 00:52:46,560
Speaker 1: watched him on our eighteenth pole, you know, hit it

1054
00:52:47,080 --> 00:52:49,960
Speaker 1: one hundred yards offline into the lake and make, you know,

1055
00:52:50,320 --> 00:52:53,799
Speaker 1: make a huge number. So The reason I bring this

1056
00:52:53,920 --> 00:52:56,399
Speaker 1: up is when he showed up at Augusta a couple

1057
00:52:56,360 --> 00:52:59,640
Speaker 1: of years ago, everybody on life from was like, with

1058
00:52:59,719 --> 00:53:02,799
Speaker 1: this speed and as far as he hits it, he

1059
00:53:02,880 --> 00:53:09,480
Speaker 1: could contend here as a college amateur golfer. Everybody is

1060
00:53:09,520 --> 00:53:13,720
Speaker 1: trying to get more speed in golf, right, everybody listening

1061
00:53:14,160 --> 00:53:17,040
Speaker 1: to this podcast is trying to get more speed. For

1062
00:53:17,120 --> 00:53:20,000
Speaker 1: a guy like Gordon sergent Mark, it is an embarrassment

1063
00:53:20,080 --> 00:53:23,319
Speaker 1: of riches in the speed department for him. So how

1064
00:53:23,320 --> 00:53:29,560
Speaker 1: do you go about turning this f one Ferrari red

1065
00:53:29,640 --> 00:53:35,479
Speaker 1: Bull this massive, massive power and how do you get

1066
00:53:35,560 --> 00:53:40,480
Speaker 1: him to somehow manage it to where it can help him?

1067
00:53:40,600 --> 00:53:43,920
Speaker 1: And he just isn't a player that everybody goes He's

1068
00:53:43,960 --> 00:53:49,720
Speaker 1: got unbelievable speed, but he's not winning five, six, seven

1069
00:53:49,719 --> 00:53:50,800
Speaker 1: times a year. Yeah.

1070
00:53:51,400 --> 00:53:53,839
Speaker 2: So I think one of the things when Gordon came

1071
00:53:53,920 --> 00:53:56,439
Speaker 2: to seeing he was like, you guys talk supplies about

1072
00:53:56,440 --> 00:53:59,080
Speaker 2: what you do. He's had a lot of success. The

1073
00:53:59,200 --> 00:54:02,880
Speaker 2: kid is a start Yeah, lovely kid, great to work with,

1074
00:54:03,040 --> 00:54:07,799
Speaker 2: great family and you know, really rounded. But it's one

1075
00:54:07,840 --> 00:54:09,680
Speaker 2: of the things that's interesting is like, well, what's your

1076
00:54:09,719 --> 00:54:12,719
Speaker 2: go to shot or don't really have one. So like

1077
00:54:12,800 --> 00:54:14,719
Speaker 2: the first thing we kind of really worked on was

1078
00:54:14,760 --> 00:54:18,760
Speaker 2: like a tee down driver, like just this little leader

1079
00:54:18,800 --> 00:54:21,120
Speaker 2: and it's pretty funny because it's like one eighty seven

1080
00:54:21,200 --> 00:54:22,880
Speaker 2: ball speed like this.

1081
00:54:23,480 --> 00:54:26,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, the fairway finders one eighty seven.

1082
00:54:25,960 --> 00:54:29,280
Speaker 2: Ball speed fairway finder and it, I mean he probably

1083
00:54:29,320 --> 00:54:31,680
Speaker 2: averages one eighty five ball speed with it, and it

1084
00:54:31,719 --> 00:54:33,600
Speaker 2: gets out there and it runs a long way. So

1085
00:54:33,800 --> 00:54:36,319
Speaker 2: I think that was number one. It was sort of

1086
00:54:36,360 --> 00:54:39,279
Speaker 2: a fair way finder. And then really where we've done

1087
00:54:39,280 --> 00:54:41,120
Speaker 2: most of the work. He likes to play a fade,

1088
00:54:41,120 --> 00:54:43,680
Speaker 2: but he is with his wedges, so his wedges, like

1089
00:54:43,800 --> 00:54:48,160
Speaker 2: most high speed guys really struggling with low launch, had

1090
00:54:48,200 --> 00:54:51,080
Speaker 2: a way too much spin on the ball Shoal Creek

1091
00:54:51,120 --> 00:54:55,680
Speaker 2: where we're both members theorists for spinning the ball off

1092
00:54:55,680 --> 00:55:00,319
Speaker 2: the green right, So using a quad and explain to

1093
00:55:00,400 --> 00:55:03,200
Speaker 2: him which he has like dynamic loft spin loft and

1094
00:55:03,239 --> 00:55:05,200
Speaker 2: I kind of what's going to make it spin less?

1095
00:55:06,160 --> 00:55:08,400
Speaker 2: Just working through that and building a wedge game, and

1096
00:55:08,440 --> 00:55:10,480
Speaker 2: that's probably one of the things that we've done is

1097
00:55:10,560 --> 00:55:13,040
Speaker 2: like really improve his distance wedge game so that he's

1098
00:55:13,640 --> 00:55:17,719
Speaker 2: understand it's a slightly different technique, not nearly as much riskset,

1099
00:55:17,840 --> 00:55:20,800
Speaker 2: not nearly as much speed, a lot more body driven

1100
00:55:21,400 --> 00:55:24,160
Speaker 2: passive kind of at the handle shaft leaning to get

1101
00:55:24,160 --> 00:55:28,040
Speaker 2: the low launch, some higher spin, but not spin that's

1102
00:55:28,120 --> 00:55:31,600
Speaker 2: zipping off the green just like I don't. And I

1103
00:55:31,640 --> 00:55:33,200
Speaker 2: think that's kind of where we've done a lot of

1104
00:55:33,200 --> 00:55:35,960
Speaker 2: work and we'll continue to He's going back to school

1105
00:55:35,960 --> 00:55:38,359
Speaker 2: this year, so he's at the US and this over

1106
00:55:38,400 --> 00:55:41,440
Speaker 2: this week. Hopefully he'll get that, which would be kind

1107
00:55:41,480 --> 00:55:43,360
Speaker 2: of the last thing he needs to do as an amateur.

1108
00:55:43,400 --> 00:55:45,640
Speaker 2: He's done everything else that you can do, but he's

1109
00:55:45,640 --> 00:55:48,279
Speaker 2: going back to school to try and continue working on

1110
00:55:48,360 --> 00:55:51,640
Speaker 2: his game. He's at Vanderbilt, so not too far from Birmlingham,

1111
00:55:51,640 --> 00:55:54,000
Speaker 2: and then he'll turn pro. He's obviously got that PGA

1112
00:55:54,120 --> 00:55:56,759
Speaker 2: to you, but he's got a bright future and he

1113
00:55:56,840 --> 00:55:59,040
Speaker 2: works really really hard at all assets of it. And

1114
00:55:59,080 --> 00:56:02,359
Speaker 2: I think back to the point about Justin Rose and say,

1115
00:56:02,480 --> 00:56:05,440
Speaker 2: working with Max and these great players, over time you

1116
00:56:05,560 --> 00:56:08,480
Speaker 2: start to see what good players do, and then the

1117
00:56:08,480 --> 00:56:11,920
Speaker 2: fun part is then sharing that mentoring these younger players,

1118
00:56:12,480 --> 00:56:14,600
Speaker 2: and they get access to those players as well, do

1119
00:56:14,640 --> 00:56:16,680
Speaker 2: you know what I mean? Like that, which I think

1120
00:56:17,000 --> 00:56:19,560
Speaker 2: is going to help their game as well, so it's

1121
00:56:19,640 --> 00:56:21,920
Speaker 2: really when you've got that much speed, you have the

1122
00:56:22,440 --> 00:56:26,080
Speaker 2: essential ingredient. It's learning how to harness it and then

1123
00:56:26,160 --> 00:56:28,799
Speaker 2: being disciplined enough to be okay, where do I hit this?

1124
00:56:28,920 --> 00:56:30,319
Speaker 2: What do I need to do? And when you've got

1125
00:56:30,320 --> 00:56:32,839
Speaker 2: one eighty five bull speed with a tee down, there's

1126
00:56:32,880 --> 00:56:35,719
Speaker 2: not many golf courses you can't play with that shot. Now,

1127
00:56:35,960 --> 00:56:39,200
Speaker 2: the hard part is that you can tee it up

1128
00:56:39,480 --> 00:56:42,799
Speaker 2: and now you can hit it another thirty yards. That's

1129
00:56:42,840 --> 00:56:45,520
Speaker 2: when it's like difficult because it's like, well, yeah, but

1130
00:56:45,520 --> 00:56:46,920
Speaker 2: if I hit this and now I can hit an

1131
00:56:47,280 --> 00:56:50,080
Speaker 2: aid iron into this five hundred and ninety yard part

1132
00:56:50,160 --> 00:56:53,120
Speaker 2: five versus now I'm having to hit a five itn

1133
00:56:53,120 --> 00:56:55,440
Speaker 2: do you know what I mean? It's just it's an

1134
00:56:55,800 --> 00:56:59,000
Speaker 2: ability to know when to use it. I think that's

1135
00:56:59,080 --> 00:57:01,200
Speaker 2: the part that it's going to take some time. That's

1136
00:57:01,200 --> 00:57:04,800
Speaker 2: the coaching part that's fun. But he's incredible. The funny

1137
00:57:04,840 --> 00:57:07,360
Speaker 2: part is talk about ground reaction forces. I think I

1138
00:57:07,400 --> 00:57:09,880
Speaker 2: can get him over two hundred miles an hour bullsby

1139
00:57:10,200 --> 00:57:10,960
Speaker 2: no problem.

1140
00:57:11,640 --> 00:57:14,279
Speaker 1: So but it's the DJ model, right, It's you know

1141
00:57:14,400 --> 00:57:18,080
Speaker 1: DJ back in fifteen. I mean, he hit it further

1142
00:57:18,160 --> 00:57:21,240
Speaker 1: than everybody in the game he had. Now everybody hits it.

1143
00:57:21,840 --> 00:57:23,919
Speaker 1: You know, ten years ago there were four or five

1144
00:57:23,960 --> 00:57:26,680
Speaker 1: guys that hit it a long way, really really really long.

1145
00:57:26,800 --> 00:57:29,680
Speaker 1: DJ was one of them. But his wedge game was terrible,

1146
00:57:29,760 --> 00:57:33,680
Speaker 1: and so by becoming a better wedge player, I believe

1147
00:57:33,760 --> 00:57:35,880
Speaker 1: that helped him win his first major and helped him

1148
00:57:35,960 --> 00:57:37,840
Speaker 1: kind of get to number one in the world and go,

1149
00:57:38,320 --> 00:57:41,520
Speaker 1: you know, plus twenty plus wins and the Masters and

1150
00:57:41,560 --> 00:57:43,120
Speaker 1: all the FedEx and all the stuff he did. He

1151
00:57:43,200 --> 00:57:46,800
Speaker 1: had the power, but the wedge game was horrendous. And

1152
00:57:47,200 --> 00:57:49,600
Speaker 1: if you think about it, Gordon's in the same category

1153
00:57:49,640 --> 00:57:52,439
Speaker 1: that DJ was in back. Then think about how many

1154
00:57:52,440 --> 00:57:55,040
Speaker 1: wedges he's got in the course of a round of golf.

1155
00:57:55,480 --> 00:57:59,160
Speaker 2: And that's the I always say that when someone starts

1156
00:57:59,160 --> 00:58:01,960
Speaker 2: to see the difference and the control, but not only

1157
00:58:02,000 --> 00:58:05,920
Speaker 2: in distance but dispersion, and then they say, man, if

1158
00:58:05,960 --> 00:58:08,640
Speaker 2: I use that wedge swing with my aid R, it's

1159
00:58:08,760 --> 00:58:11,960
Speaker 2: unbelievable how straight it goes. And so you start to

1160
00:58:12,040 --> 00:58:15,760
Speaker 2: get these these things where the players know intuitively, okay,

1161
00:58:15,800 --> 00:58:18,000
Speaker 2: well I could apply this to hear. So I think

1162
00:58:18,040 --> 00:58:20,440
Speaker 2: that lots of the things that you can learn this

1163
00:58:20,560 --> 00:58:22,840
Speaker 2: is I've reached this a lot to people with a

1164
00:58:22,880 --> 00:58:27,120
Speaker 2: distance wedge. Learning how to control loft, knowing how to

1165
00:58:27,240 --> 00:58:29,840
Speaker 2: lean the shaft, but not sticking in the ground. All

1166
00:58:29,840 --> 00:58:32,560
Speaker 2: of these things that allow you to be a great

1167
00:58:32,560 --> 00:58:35,040
Speaker 2: ball hitter happen with a wedge game. So if you

1168
00:58:35,040 --> 00:58:39,040
Speaker 2: could develop a distance wedge game, let's say sixty to

1169
00:58:39,160 --> 00:58:42,320
Speaker 2: one forty, it does wonders for the whole part of

1170
00:58:42,320 --> 00:58:44,400
Speaker 2: your game. And to your point, when a smash is

1171
00:58:44,800 --> 00:58:47,200
Speaker 2: hitting wet, they have a lot of wedges, So now

1172
00:58:47,240 --> 00:58:50,480
Speaker 2: all of a sudden, it's like you're really contributing to

1173
00:58:50,520 --> 00:58:53,440
Speaker 2: their score. And because they're even if they aren't put great,

1174
00:58:54,080 --> 00:58:56,680
Speaker 2: they're gonna have a lot of shots inside fifteen feet.

1175
00:58:56,960 --> 00:59:00,080
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, I could do another hour of this,

1176
00:59:00,200 --> 00:59:01,960
Speaker 1: but I'm gonna let you go and I'm gonna go

1177
00:59:02,000 --> 00:59:04,840
Speaker 1: open a bottle of wine. Listen. It was really really fun.

1178
00:59:04,880 --> 00:59:07,480
Speaker 1: I mean, as somebody, and I don't say this to

1179
00:59:08,160 --> 00:59:10,200
Speaker 1: beat you up about it, is someone that's been lucky

1180
00:59:10,280 --> 00:59:13,720
Speaker 1: enough to work with players that have won major championships.

1181
00:59:13,440 --> 00:59:17,960
Speaker 1: When you've got guys trying to win one, it is

1182
00:59:18,080 --> 00:59:20,800
Speaker 1: for us as coaches, it is the pinnacle of what

1183
00:59:20,880 --> 00:59:24,120
Speaker 1: we do. And to have two guys this year have

1184
00:59:24,200 --> 00:59:29,320
Speaker 1: two legit chances of it. It wears you out, it

1185
00:59:29,400 --> 00:59:32,560
Speaker 1: beats you up, but it's the reason why we do this.

1186
00:59:32,720 --> 00:59:36,000
Speaker 1: And you know, I'm proud of the work that you do.

1187
00:59:36,080 --> 00:59:40,320
Speaker 1: I'm lucky to be able to at tournaments in the

1188
00:59:40,360 --> 00:59:42,720
Speaker 1: players lounge on the driving range when we're sitting around

1189
00:59:42,760 --> 00:59:46,880
Speaker 1: waiting for these superstars, it's fun to pick your brain.

1190
00:59:47,400 --> 00:59:50,880
Speaker 1: You've always been somebody that has been very, very open

1191
00:59:50,960 --> 00:59:53,400
Speaker 1: with the information that you've got, and you're somebody that

1192
00:59:53,440 --> 00:59:55,600
Speaker 1: I will ask questions to about Hey man, what do

1193
00:59:55,640 --> 00:59:59,000
Speaker 1: you think about this with this player and stuff like that,

1194
00:59:59,080 --> 01:00:03,080
Speaker 1: and hopefully that will continue. We'll look forward to seeing

1195
01:00:03,080 --> 01:00:05,000
Speaker 1: you soon. Good luck in the FedEx with all the boys,

1196
01:00:05,040 --> 01:00:06,920
Speaker 1: and keep hanging trophies.

1197
01:00:06,960 --> 01:00:10,920
Speaker 2: Man, Appreciate it, Appreciate you, Appreciate our friendship, thanks to everything.

1198
01:00:11,080 --> 01:00:14,400
Speaker 2: Especially appreciate your nice text after the Masters. Didn't have

1199
01:00:14,440 --> 01:00:16,800
Speaker 2: to do that, so you're the man. I appreciate you.

1200
01:00:16,960 --> 01:00:19,520
Speaker 2: Look forward to seeing you soon. Hopefully I see you

1201
01:00:21,040 --> 01:00:24,200
Speaker 2: at an International Cup match at some point soon. We'll

1202
01:00:24,240 --> 01:00:27,600
Speaker 2: see about that. Yeah, hopefully hopefully. Good to talk to you,

1203
01:00:27,760 --> 01:00:29,400
Speaker 2: ye buddy, take care of bite So.

1204
01:00:29,400 --> 01:00:32,120
Speaker 1: Mark Blackburn listen he's one of the best in the game.

1205
01:00:32,760 --> 01:00:34,479
Speaker 1: He works with some of the best players in the game.

1206
01:00:34,560 --> 01:00:36,720
Speaker 1: I think the work that he does with players, not

1207
01:00:36,760 --> 01:00:40,080
Speaker 1: only on tour, but the work he does off tour

1208
01:00:40,120 --> 01:00:43,200
Speaker 1: as well, is second to none. And someone who I

1209
01:00:43,560 --> 01:00:46,720
Speaker 1: very very much respect and enjoyed talking to. So that

1210
01:00:46,840 --> 01:00:49,440
Speaker 1: was cool. I hope everyone enjoyed it. I'm at a

1211
01:00:49,480 --> 01:00:52,560
Speaker 1: live event this week and one of the really cool

1212
01:00:52,640 --> 01:00:58,000
Speaker 1: things this morning seeing all the guys that have just

1213
01:00:58,040 --> 01:01:01,200
Speaker 1: come back from the Olympics into breakfast and get an

1214
01:01:01,240 --> 01:01:03,920
Speaker 1: opportunity to just kind of ask them how it was.

1215
01:01:04,040 --> 01:01:06,400
Speaker 1: Some of them are wearing, you know, the workout clothes

1216
01:01:06,480 --> 01:01:09,560
Speaker 1: from their teams. A couple of the guys I saw

1217
01:01:09,560 --> 01:01:12,360
Speaker 1: wac o'neman over the weekend down in Jupiter. He still

1218
01:01:12,400 --> 01:01:15,840
Speaker 1: had the chili bag. I think the Olympics and golf

1219
01:01:16,400 --> 01:01:20,200
Speaker 1: is really something special. And just talking to the guys

1220
01:01:20,200 --> 01:01:23,680
Speaker 1: and asking them their experience what it was like, everybody

1221
01:01:23,800 --> 01:01:26,800
Speaker 1: was just blown away. They all said it was really

1222
01:01:26,920 --> 01:01:28,600
Speaker 1: kind of life changing for them. Must talk to John

1223
01:01:28,680 --> 01:01:30,920
Speaker 1: Rahm and I said to Rambo, I said, how was it?

1224
01:01:30,960 --> 01:01:33,240
Speaker 1: And he said, one of the coolest things I've ever done.

1225
01:01:33,680 --> 01:01:36,200
Speaker 1: Really one of the coolest things I've ever been a

1226
01:01:36,240 --> 01:01:37,880
Speaker 1: part of. And for a guy like John ram a

1227
01:01:37,880 --> 01:01:41,080
Speaker 1: two time major champion, He's got a green jacket us Open,

1228
01:01:41,640 --> 01:01:43,520
Speaker 1: the number one in the world. For him to say that,

1229
01:01:43,680 --> 01:01:46,280
Speaker 1: and for him to say that when he blew a

1230
01:01:46,320 --> 01:01:50,200
Speaker 1: big lead at the Olympics, he was leading on the

1231
01:01:50,240 --> 01:01:53,240
Speaker 1: back nine and didn't get it done, but that was

1232
01:01:53,320 --> 01:01:55,480
Speaker 1: kind of cool. Today to get an opportunity just to

1233
01:01:55,520 --> 01:01:57,680
Speaker 1: talk to all of the different players talk about what

1234
01:01:57,720 --> 01:02:01,280
Speaker 1: it meant for them to represent their in the Olympics,

1235
01:02:01,920 --> 01:02:05,160
Speaker 1: I think it's pretty special. Roy McElroy made some comments

1236
01:02:05,200 --> 01:02:07,400
Speaker 1: about he thinks it's on par with kind of what's

1237
01:02:07,400 --> 01:02:09,600
Speaker 1: going on at the Ryder Cup, that kind of feeling.

1238
01:02:10,080 --> 01:02:11,520
Speaker 1: I kind of think it would be cool if there

1239
01:02:11,560 --> 01:02:14,200
Speaker 1: was an opportunity to have a team competition in the

1240
01:02:14,280 --> 01:02:17,120
Speaker 1: Ryder Cup as well, not just an individual but they'll

1241
01:02:17,120 --> 01:02:22,560
Speaker 1: work it out. But Paris the Olympics this summer, I watched,

1242
01:02:22,600 --> 01:02:24,400
Speaker 1: I watched the men play, I watched the women play,

1243
01:02:24,960 --> 01:02:29,360
Speaker 1: and I am a fan. So really cool to talk

1244
01:02:29,400 --> 01:02:33,760
Speaker 1: to everybody and something that I would just really as

1245
01:02:33,800 --> 01:02:35,520
Speaker 1: a coach if I could work with a player that

1246
01:02:35,560 --> 01:02:39,480
Speaker 1: was in the Olympics, that would be pretty pretty special.

1247
01:02:40,400 --> 01:02:43,560
Speaker 1: I want to thank everyone for listening, rate, review, subscribe

1248
01:02:43,560 --> 01:02:47,959
Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts. Son of a which comes

1249
01:02:48,000 --> 01:02:50,439
Speaker 1: to you almost every Wednesday. We'll see you next week.