WEBVTT - Tesla’s First Strike and Alex Jones’ Return to X 0:00:03.960 --> 0:00:06.720 Well, Elon Musk gives now the richest person on the planet. 0:00:07.200 --> 0:00:10.039 More than half the satellites in space are owned and 0:00:10.119 --> 0:00:12.080 controlled by one man. 0:00:12.440 --> 0:00:15.160 Starting his own artificial intelligence company. 0:00:15.400 --> 0:00:18.360 Well, he's a legitimate super genius. I mean legitimate. 0:00:18.560 --> 0:00:18.919 He says. 0:00:18.920 --> 0:00:21.560 He's always voted for Democrats, but this year it will 0:00:21.560 --> 0:00:22.000 be different. 0:00:22.040 --> 0:00:23.000 He'll vote Republican. 0:00:23.280 --> 0:00:25.760 There is a reason the US government is so reliant 0:00:25.800 --> 0:00:26.120 on him. 0:00:26.360 --> 0:00:29.960 Elon Musk is a scam artist and he's done nothing. 0:00:30.600 --> 0:00:33.320 Anything he does is fascinating the people. 0:00:42.440 --> 0:00:45.440 Welcome to Elon Inc. Where we discuss Elon Musk's vast 0:00:45.440 --> 0:00:48.559 corporate empire, his latest gambits and antics, and how to 0:00:48.560 --> 0:00:52.000 make sense of it all. I'm your host, David Poppadopolis. 0:00:53.240 --> 0:00:55.200 Tesla has been hit for the first time in its 0:00:55.240 --> 0:00:59.040 history with the strike. The company's mechanics in Sweden put 0:00:59.040 --> 0:01:03.640 down their tools October. Now the action is spread across 0:01:03.720 --> 0:01:08.000 other Nordic countries, with workers involved in Tesla deliveries in Denmark, 0:01:08.120 --> 0:01:12.319 Finland and Norway jumping in and supporting their striking Swedish counterparts. 0:01:13.080 --> 0:01:16.520 The showdown could have serious implications for Musk, especially as 0:01:16.560 --> 0:01:19.880 the United Auto Workers Union sets its sites on Tesla's 0:01:19.920 --> 0:01:24.440 factories here in the US. Meanwhile, Musk is focused on 0:01:24.959 --> 0:01:28.600 bringing Alex Jones back to X. No, that's not a joke. 0:01:29.200 --> 0:01:32.920 More on that later. But to discuss the strike in Europe, 0:01:33.000 --> 0:01:37.120 we'll talk to Dana Hall, longtime Tesla reporter. Hello, Dana, 0:01:38.120 --> 0:01:42.840 good morning. And Craig Trudell, our global auto industry editor 0:01:42.840 --> 0:01:48.200 in London. Thinking then our regulars Max Chafkin, Sarah Fryer 0:01:48.480 --> 0:01:51.760 and Dana. We'll talk about the latest happenings on X 0:01:52.120 --> 0:01:55.480 and they'll also give you a very special gift guide 0:01:55.560 --> 0:02:02.120 made up entirely of ads found on X. Very important. Okay, so, Craig, 0:02:02.200 --> 0:02:05.760 we're going to start with you. And in Sweden and 0:02:06.880 --> 0:02:11.240 now Elon and Tesla don't have a factory there, but 0:02:11.360 --> 0:02:15.200 tell us exactly who is striking and why. 0:02:15.520 --> 0:02:18.280 The union we're talking about here is if mattal So. 0:02:18.440 --> 0:02:23.360 This is Sweden's industrial workers union, and it's really old. 0:02:23.360 --> 0:02:25.720 It's been around for one hundred and thirty five years. 0:02:26.240 --> 0:02:30.079 This is a country that, ironically, you know, it has 0:02:30.200 --> 0:02:32.200 a lot of consumers that you would think would be 0:02:32.720 --> 0:02:34.920 quite fond of a brand like Tesla, a lot of 0:02:35.200 --> 0:02:40.800 sort of eco conscious, you know, sustainability minded consumers, and 0:02:40.840 --> 0:02:43.680 this is a union that has been around an awfully 0:02:43.760 --> 0:02:44.200 long time. 0:02:44.360 --> 0:02:48.679 It's a consumer base that is indeed, you know, environmentally focused, 0:02:48.840 --> 0:02:50.760 and it's a wealthy consumer base, right. 0:02:51.320 --> 0:02:54.560 Yeah, and I think you know, Dannon will know this well. 0:02:54.639 --> 0:02:57.240 I mean this, this is a region that has been 0:02:57.400 --> 0:03:01.120 really important to Tesla's history. You know, Norway is you know, 0:03:01.280 --> 0:03:03.880 very close by, maybe the first country in the world 0:03:03.919 --> 0:03:07.520 to go electric in terms of new car sales. Sweden, 0:03:07.680 --> 0:03:10.440 you know, is a relatively small market in the grand 0:03:10.440 --> 0:03:14.200 scheme of things, but it is Tesla's fifth biggest market 0:03:14.600 --> 0:03:17.560 in Europe, and so it is not an insignificant market 0:03:17.600 --> 0:03:19.120 for them, at least in this region. 0:03:19.360 --> 0:03:22.959 It is the first strike ever anywhere in the world 0:03:22.960 --> 0:03:26.280 against Tesla, but it's not a whole lot of workers, right, 0:03:26.560 --> 0:03:30.600 We're talking about mechanics at a bunch of shops across 0:03:30.639 --> 0:03:31.680 the country, is that right. 0:03:31.919 --> 0:03:34.720 Yeah, this is really small. We're talking about seven repair 0:03:34.800 --> 0:03:37.720 shops in the country, roughly one hundred and thirty people. 0:03:37.800 --> 0:03:40.160 And so when we talk about this being the first 0:03:40.200 --> 0:03:42.520 ever strike at Tesla, I think it's really a function 0:03:42.600 --> 0:03:45.120 of that more so than anything, the fact that you 0:03:45.200 --> 0:03:47.920 have this union that itself is pretty big and has 0:03:47.960 --> 0:03:50.520 been around a long time, but you know this sort 0:03:50.560 --> 0:03:54.800 of you know, people involved is quite small. It's also 0:03:54.840 --> 0:03:58.920 a country with really strong protections for organized labor and 0:03:59.000 --> 0:04:02.560 for unions, where you know, Tesla can't tell workers, sorry, 0:04:02.560 --> 0:04:04.640 you can't join a union if you want to work here. 0:04:04.960 --> 0:04:07.520 That's just the way things work in the country. And 0:04:07.600 --> 0:04:09.920 I think that's kind of where where you know, we're 0:04:10.200 --> 0:04:13.360 seeing issues here is you know, the way that Sweden 0:04:13.440 --> 0:04:16.240 works is just very different from the US, where you know, 0:04:16.320 --> 0:04:18.920 Musk is used to the UAW sort of striking up 0:04:19.360 --> 0:04:24.400 an advers adversarial relationship between workers and management. He doesn't 0:04:24.440 --> 0:04:27.680 want that, but I think he misunderstands really how Sweden works. 0:04:27.720 --> 0:04:29.520 This is a country that doesn't have a you know, 0:04:29.640 --> 0:04:33.360 minimum wage. You know, this is something that the government 0:04:33.400 --> 0:04:36.320 sort of leaves up to management and workers to work 0:04:36.320 --> 0:04:38.880 out for themselves through the collective bargaining process. 0:04:39.000 --> 0:04:41.719 So Dana, let's pause there for a second and flesh 0:04:41.800 --> 0:04:44.520 that that his thinking out there a little bit more 0:04:44.560 --> 0:04:45.360 for us. 0:04:45.640 --> 0:04:51.159 I mean, Elon is not a union guy, and Tesla 0:04:51.160 --> 0:04:53.359 has never had a union. And what's interesting is that 0:04:53.360 --> 0:04:55.760 if you look at the history of the Tesla plant 0:04:55.839 --> 0:04:58.720 in Fremont, California. It did used to be union when 0:04:58.760 --> 0:05:00.800 it was owned by New me which was this kind 0:05:00.800 --> 0:05:05.120 of rare, very unique joint venture between General Motors and Toyota, 0:05:05.680 --> 0:05:08.000 so back in the eighties and then in the nineties, 0:05:08.120 --> 0:05:11.080 like knew me was a union plant. Then it went bankrupt, 0:05:11.360 --> 0:05:13.840 all the workers were let go. It was like this 0:05:13.960 --> 0:05:17.359 sort of desolate crater of a factory. Tesla bought it 0:05:17.400 --> 0:05:19.880 in twenty ten, and some of the workers that are 0:05:19.920 --> 0:05:21.320 there at Tesla came. 0:05:21.160 --> 0:05:21.640 From nu Mei. 0:05:21.720 --> 0:05:24.120 So there's always been like a very small faction within 0:05:24.200 --> 0:05:27.320 the plant that worked for you know, there were UAW 0:05:27.480 --> 0:05:30.279 members who wanted to see the UAW come back, and 0:05:30.360 --> 0:05:33.720 in twenty eighteen, when Tesla was ramping the Model three, 0:05:33.839 --> 0:05:36.919 there was a really strong effort to try to unionize 0:05:36.920 --> 0:05:40.320 that plant that ultimately kind of petered out and went nowhere. 0:05:40.800 --> 0:05:42.520 We do know that he has a pretty dim view 0:05:42.560 --> 0:05:46.520 on unions. It's the libertarian in him. Here's what he 0:05:46.600 --> 0:05:48.920 had to say about unions a couple of weeks ago 0:05:48.920 --> 0:05:50.680 with the Deal Book conference in New York. 0:05:50.960 --> 0:05:53.279 I disagree with the idea of unions. I think the 0:05:53.360 --> 0:05:57.920 unions naturally try to create negativity in a company and 0:05:58.200 --> 0:06:01.960 create a sort of lords and peasants situation. There are 0:06:01.960 --> 0:06:05.440 many people at Tesla who have gone from working on 0:06:05.480 --> 0:06:07.960 the line to being in senior management. There is no 0:06:08.680 --> 0:06:09.440 laws and peasants. 0:06:09.640 --> 0:06:12.520 And so when he talks about the things and the 0:06:12.560 --> 0:06:14.400 reasons he's against unions, I mean one of the things, 0:06:14.400 --> 0:06:16.520 and I believe that actually comes up in the Deal 0:06:16.560 --> 0:06:20.000 book interview. He says things like, listen, I've got workers 0:06:20.040 --> 0:06:23.159 who work for me on the line who have become 0:06:23.200 --> 0:06:26.360 millionaires just working the line and from their stock options, right, 0:06:26.680 --> 0:06:29.039 stock options that he says they would never get if 0:06:29.120 --> 0:06:30.200 they were unionized. Yeah. 0:06:30.240 --> 0:06:33.040 No, that's a huge part of Musk's thinking that everyone 0:06:33.160 --> 0:06:36.080 at Tesla has equity in the company, and that if 0:06:36.120 --> 0:06:38.680 you're in a union, you pay union dues to this 0:06:38.760 --> 0:06:43.600 sort of parallel management structure that he thinks is basically corrupt. 0:06:43.760 --> 0:06:47.520 And you know, to his credit, I mean, you know, 0:06:47.600 --> 0:06:50.159 he's not exactly wrong on some levels. I mean, the 0:06:50.200 --> 0:06:54.520 former UAW president did go to federal prison, like for 0:06:54.560 --> 0:06:57.960 embezzling funds from the membership. The whole thing about millionaires, 0:06:58.160 --> 0:07:00.239 I mean, there are a lot of early Tesla pa 0:07:00.320 --> 0:07:03.440 who made a lot of money. If there's like actual millionaires, 0:07:03.560 --> 0:07:05.680 I have not seen any of them come forward, but 0:07:05.720 --> 0:07:08.040 they do exist. I mean if you got in at 0:07:08.040 --> 0:07:11.000 a certain time and and and held on to your 0:07:11.000 --> 0:07:13.560 options and your RSUs and time to the market, right, 0:07:13.840 --> 0:07:16.080 I mean, that's definitely true. I mean that's that's and 0:07:16.320 --> 0:07:18.720 there's lore around that within the plant for sure. 0:07:19.440 --> 0:07:23.320 Yeah, and something that he definitely sells and and articulates 0:07:23.520 --> 0:07:25.880 publicly quite a bit. But let's go back to scan 0:07:26.000 --> 0:07:33.280 Dainavia Craig tell us what exactly do these striking mechanics want? 0:07:33.800 --> 0:07:37.040 So I mentioned before that this is a case of 0:07:37.080 --> 0:07:40.280 a country where there's no way for TESLA to get 0:07:40.280 --> 0:07:43.800 in the way of these workers unionizing. This is a 0:07:43.840 --> 0:07:47.480 matter of what that really means, and collective bargaining is 0:07:47.480 --> 0:07:50.200 the key here. You want to be able to, you know, 0:07:50.280 --> 0:07:54.160 come together as a group of workers and hammer out 0:07:54.200 --> 0:07:57.240 an agreement with your employer as to you know, what 0:07:57.360 --> 0:08:00.720 sort of working conditions are set, you know, minimum wages, 0:08:01.200 --> 0:08:03.640 hours that are worked, those sorts of things. I think 0:08:03.840 --> 0:08:06.960 you know when you talk about repair workers, there of 0:08:07.000 --> 0:08:12.160 course safety implications there. Working on batteries can be a 0:08:12.240 --> 0:08:15.040 dangerous thing. When you're working on a car, that maybe 0:08:15.120 --> 0:08:17.800 has been banged up and has a big hunk of 0:08:18.080 --> 0:08:22.320 rare earth and volatile materials within batteries, and so, you know, 0:08:22.360 --> 0:08:26.240 this is a case of workers wanting a collective bargaining 0:08:26.320 --> 0:08:30.040 agreement and TESLA refusing, and not just lately. This is 0:08:30.080 --> 0:08:33.240 something that goes back to twenty seventeen. This is something 0:08:33.240 --> 0:08:35.280 that the union has been pushing for for years at 0:08:35.280 --> 0:08:36.760 this point, Craig. 0:08:36.600 --> 0:08:39.800 At some point recently you said to me this struck 0:08:39.840 --> 0:08:41.520 you as a little bit of a case of Elon 0:08:41.640 --> 0:08:45.439 being stubborn in the sense that Elon the disruptor, wants 0:08:45.440 --> 0:08:48.840 to disrupt everything is against unions. And even though the 0:08:48.880 --> 0:08:51.880 fact that this is the way it's been in Sweden 0:08:51.920 --> 0:08:57.839 for many, many years and the vast bulk of workers work, 0:08:58.120 --> 0:09:00.640 you know, under these kind of agreements, he can't get 0:09:00.720 --> 0:09:04.360 himself to to accept it. And it almost feels like 0:09:04.440 --> 0:09:07.400 he's he's creating something of a tempest in a teapot here. 0:09:07.960 --> 0:09:10.240 Yeah, because I do think that you know, of course, 0:09:10.240 --> 0:09:12.559 some people are going to say that well, if you 0:09:12.559 --> 0:09:15.800 you know, agree to a collective bargaining you know, deal 0:09:15.960 --> 0:09:19.880 with workers in Sweden, well this this sets a precedent, 0:09:20.000 --> 0:09:23.199 and you know, sort of slippery slope situation. I don't 0:09:23.240 --> 0:09:25.920 think that that's what actually is at stake here. When 0:09:26.280 --> 0:09:29.480 you know, you talk about a collective collective agreement for 0:09:29.520 --> 0:09:31.640 one hundred and thirty workers, is that really going to 0:09:31.679 --> 0:09:35.960 make a difference in this really difficult, you know fight 0:09:36.040 --> 0:09:38.640 that unions in the US and Germany are going to 0:09:38.679 --> 0:09:41.440 try and wage to organize thousands of workers. I don't 0:09:41.440 --> 0:09:43.160 think it really makes any any difference. 0:09:43.679 --> 0:09:46.320 I just want to ask you this, Craig. This strike 0:09:46.760 --> 0:09:50.959 is spreading to a certain degree, right, other unions sympathetic 0:09:50.960 --> 0:09:55.120 to the cause of these mechanics have also started taking part. 0:09:55.320 --> 0:09:58.160 What does that look like exactly? And what's the impact 0:09:58.240 --> 0:10:00.000 of that, Craig on Tesla's business. 0:10:00.600 --> 0:10:04.600 Yeah, just because of the role that unions play in Sweden, 0:10:05.160 --> 0:10:08.280 the protections for them and sort of the ability for 0:10:08.360 --> 0:10:12.360 them to maneuver is really sort of open, and so 0:10:12.480 --> 0:10:15.360 there's an ability, you know, legally for there to be 0:10:15.440 --> 0:10:18.640 sympathy actions across unions. So we're talking about an industrial 0:10:18.679 --> 0:10:22.680 workers union that has taken action against Tesla. But as 0:10:22.679 --> 0:10:25.719 a result of them taking action and striking Tesla, you've 0:10:25.760 --> 0:10:28.920 seen this, you know, one after another, other unions within 0:10:29.000 --> 0:10:32.600 Sweden and in some neighboring countries that have similar systems 0:10:33.280 --> 0:10:36.000 also you know, sort of taking up the cause. And 0:10:36.080 --> 0:10:39.800 so you have postal workers in Sweden that won't hand 0:10:39.840 --> 0:10:43.240 over license plates to Tesla and are sort of holding 0:10:43.280 --> 0:10:45.680 up the delivery of those, which of course is going 0:10:45.720 --> 0:10:49.640 to complicate Tesla's effort to get new cars registered. You 0:10:49.720 --> 0:10:53.480 have dock workers that are refusing to you know, unload 0:10:53.840 --> 0:10:57.800 Tesla's from ships, and you have you know, Finland and 0:10:58.200 --> 0:11:01.440 Norway and Denmark, these other unions and neighboring countries that 0:11:01.480 --> 0:11:04.559 are saying, uh, you know, we're not going to help you, Tesla, 0:11:04.800 --> 0:11:07.640 and getting around the fact that these dock workers in 0:11:07.720 --> 0:11:11.240 Sweden are trying to you know, sympathize with you know, 0:11:11.320 --> 0:11:13.880 their their compatriots in the Industrial Workers Union. 0:11:14.800 --> 0:11:18.360 Yeah. I even understand right that the garbage pickup isn't 0:11:18.400 --> 0:11:22.160 happening because of one of these unions acting in sympathies 0:11:22.160 --> 0:11:30.439 that things are getting smelly there around these repair shops. Okay, so, Dana, 0:11:30.480 --> 0:11:34.360 that's the scene in Scandinavia and in Germany. Indeed, as 0:11:34.400 --> 0:11:36.720 Craig was saying here in the US, Shawn Fame, the 0:11:36.760 --> 0:11:40.839 leader of the UAW, is now targeting Tessel among other automakers, 0:11:40.840 --> 0:11:44.200 as the place he wants to unionize workers. Those unionization 0:11:44.440 --> 0:11:48.880 drives I believe Dana are now underway. What's the status 0:11:48.880 --> 0:11:49.800 at this early stage. 0:11:50.240 --> 0:11:52.480 Yeah, so the I mean, the UAW is trying to 0:11:52.600 --> 0:11:55.959 organize everywhere, and they've had some announcements recently that they've 0:11:55.960 --> 0:11:59.200 gotten lots of signatures on union cards at different plants. 0:11:59.240 --> 0:12:01.280 But I'm going to pound this over and over again, 0:12:01.400 --> 0:12:04.000 like they are gonna they are gonna focus. 0:12:03.640 --> 0:12:04.199 On the South. 0:12:04.320 --> 0:12:05.880 They are not going to focus on Freemond. 0:12:05.920 --> 0:12:07.960 When you say the South, right, we are not talking 0:12:07.960 --> 0:12:08.600 about Tesla. 0:12:08.679 --> 0:12:11.680 We're talking about like the volksbag plant in Chattanooga, Tennessee, 0:12:12.360 --> 0:12:15.960 and other auto plants in the South where the UAW 0:12:16.080 --> 0:12:19.720 has tried to unionize before and actually had votes before. 0:12:19.840 --> 0:12:21.640 Like you guys, it just doesn't make sense to like 0:12:22.120 --> 0:12:25.600 go guns blazing at Tesla where they've never even gotten 0:12:25.640 --> 0:12:27.520 to a vote. They've got They've laid a lot more 0:12:27.520 --> 0:12:30.400 groundwork at these other plants, and so I just get 0:12:30.400 --> 0:12:33.560 frustrated personally when it's like like every I get it, 0:12:33.640 --> 0:12:34.800 everyone wants a shit. 0:12:34.920 --> 0:12:36.439 I'm gonna keep asking this question. 0:12:36.480 --> 0:12:40.199 Everyone wants the Shawan Fain, Elon Musk cage man. 0:12:40.280 --> 0:12:43.520 But if you are Seawan Fain and you you have 0:12:44.600 --> 0:12:47.000 the views you do, and Shawn Fain is a new 0:12:47.120 --> 0:12:49.640 kind of labor leader in this country, and he's not 0:12:49.720 --> 0:12:51.640 messing around, and he's kind of got it out for 0:12:51.679 --> 0:12:54.480 the billionaire class. And you look at Elon Musk, the 0:12:54.600 --> 0:12:57.280 richest person in the world. Is he not a juicy 0:12:57.360 --> 0:12:58.280 target to go after? 0:12:58.440 --> 0:13:00.760 He's totally a juicy target. But if you're if you're 0:13:00.760 --> 0:13:04.480 a union strategist and you've just won these historic contracts 0:13:04.520 --> 0:13:06.920 in Detroit and you want to keep the momentum going 0:13:07.000 --> 0:13:10.720 and grow your membership, then you pick the next easiest target, 0:13:10.960 --> 0:13:13.400 which is not Tesla. You pick where you're going to win. 0:13:13.760 --> 0:13:16.240 Like that's just like sort of basic organizing one on one. 0:13:16.400 --> 0:13:19.520 And I think you've seen from the recent UAW commentary 0:13:19.640 --> 0:13:22.719 that like they're focused. They're not focusing on Fremont, They're 0:13:22.720 --> 0:13:25.520 focusing on other plants that are largely in the South. 0:13:26.320 --> 0:13:29.360 Yeah, I'm and I'm absolutely with Dana in the sense 0:13:29.440 --> 0:13:33.439 that the UAW has already sort of made big efforts 0:13:33.480 --> 0:13:37.199 at other factories, whether Volkswagen or Nissan down down in 0:13:37.240 --> 0:13:39.320 the South in the US and you know, made it 0:13:39.360 --> 0:13:42.240 to a vote with those companies. It's it's tried and failed, 0:13:42.280 --> 0:13:45.160 but at least gotten somewhat close. It hasn't come anywhere 0:13:45.160 --> 0:13:48.040 close with Tesla, but I do think with Tesla, you know, 0:13:48.160 --> 0:13:50.800 just on the last earnings call, these guys were talking 0:13:50.800 --> 0:13:54.440 about even taking you know, stickers off of parts uh 0:13:54.640 --> 0:13:58.719 and doing that to save you know, literally pennies per vehicle. UH. 0:13:59.000 --> 0:14:01.320 The the sort of you know emphasis that they're putting 0:14:01.720 --> 0:14:04.920 on cost cutting as their growth has slowed down dramatically. 0:14:05.320 --> 0:14:08.680 This absolutely poses a threat for them when they're having 0:14:08.720 --> 0:14:11.160 to you know, whether they like it or not, you know, 0:14:11.320 --> 0:14:14.440 pivot to a significant degree from you know, being a 0:14:14.480 --> 0:14:18.480 growth story to sales are slowing down. So you know, 0:14:18.559 --> 0:14:23.400 you have this situation of slower growth, falling prices uh, 0:14:23.720 --> 0:14:27.880 and some cost pressures on the part of this union momentum, 0:14:28.160 --> 0:14:32.840 whether it's really small cases in Sweden, a more powerful 0:14:32.920 --> 0:14:36.240 union in Germany, and a UAW that is, you know, 0:14:36.320 --> 0:14:39.680 for all its weaknesses and long history of issues in 0:14:39.720 --> 0:14:42.000 the US, is you know, at least at the for 0:14:42.080 --> 0:14:44.560 the moment looking resurgent in Detroit. 0:14:44.960 --> 0:14:46.520 Well, was it Craig terrific to have you on. 0:14:47.200 --> 0:14:49.080 Thanks guys like looking forward to listening. 0:14:51.760 --> 0:14:56.240 Okay, we're back and joining me and Dana is Max 0:14:56.640 --> 0:15:02.040 lately Max and Sarah Hello, So Sarah as we talk 0:15:02.560 --> 0:15:06.640 X and Alex Jones and those things, I want to 0:15:06.680 --> 0:15:09.960 ask you because I'm going to be honest. Over the weekend, 0:15:10.200 --> 0:15:13.080 I did my best not to pay that much attention 0:15:13.200 --> 0:15:16.080 to this just a little bit. So for those like me, 0:15:17.560 --> 0:15:20.720 what exactly do we need to know about what's transpired 0:15:20.760 --> 0:15:22.880 in the last forty eight to seventy two hours. 0:15:23.280 --> 0:15:26.840 Alex Jones, who owes a lot of money to the 0:15:26.920 --> 0:15:30.920 victims of the Sandy Hook shooting because he denied that 0:15:31.000 --> 0:15:36.400 it occurred for many years, is restored to X. And 0:15:36.840 --> 0:15:41.800 I think what happens occasionally on the platform is Elon 0:15:41.920 --> 0:15:45.480 Musk will try to prove that he has created the 0:15:45.680 --> 0:15:50.239 network for free speech. He's done this before. He's outsourced 0:15:50.640 --> 0:15:55.800 controversial decisions to users via via polls, and that's what 0:15:55.840 --> 0:15:58.000 he did in this case. So he tweeted out, let's 0:15:58.040 --> 0:16:01.400 see the will of the people, should Alex Jones come back? 0:16:01.480 --> 0:16:03.440 Same thing he did for Donald Trump, by the way, 0:16:04.000 --> 0:16:07.880 and a good portion of people of solid majority said yes, 0:16:07.920 --> 0:16:11.720 And so Alex Jones was restored. Not only that, Elon 0:16:11.840 --> 0:16:16.240 Musk did a Spaces which is that live audio with 0:16:16.360 --> 0:16:19.840 Alex Jones and sort of even gave him more of 0:16:19.880 --> 0:16:23.040 a platform than just restoring him to X. 0:16:23.560 --> 0:16:26.640 Yeah. So, now, Max, I know that you see to 0:16:26.680 --> 0:16:29.640 a certain degree some sort of tie in between that 0:16:29.680 --> 0:16:34.040 between this kind of thing and the stuff we were 0:16:34.080 --> 0:16:39.080 just talking about about unionization efforts at Tesla Factors. 0:16:39.160 --> 0:16:42.960 Yeah. I mean, so I listened to this two hours 0:16:43.000 --> 0:16:48.320 and four and Opaces appearance, and you know it's it's 0:16:48.440 --> 0:16:52.640 Elon Musk talking to Alex Jones, the famous Sandy Hook 0:16:53.280 --> 0:16:59.000 denier Harasser of the parents of dead school children and 0:16:59.040 --> 0:17:02.960 so on. Join by Andrew Tait, who is currently under 0:17:03.000 --> 0:17:06.119 indictment for human trafficking, is a men's rights activist, and 0:17:06.240 --> 0:17:09.560 Vek Ramaswami, you know, the third or fourth place Republican 0:17:09.600 --> 0:17:13.680 presidential candidate, all kind of browing down about the awesomeness 0:17:13.720 --> 0:17:16.480 of free speech. And when you listen to this, it's 0:17:16.560 --> 0:17:19.680 just very niche. It's like it's like a thing that 0:17:19.800 --> 0:17:22.840 you would not care about unless you are deep, deep, deep, 0:17:22.880 --> 0:17:26.639 deep deep down the right wing rabbit hole. And that 0:17:26.760 --> 0:17:29.680 I think has worked for Musk, But of course it's polarizing. 0:17:29.240 --> 0:17:30.679 When you say it's worked for him, How has it 0:17:30.720 --> 0:17:31.280 worked for him? 0:17:31.400 --> 0:17:33.959 I mean, when you listen to this this appearance, right, 0:17:34.000 --> 0:17:35.280 it's just constant praise. 0:17:35.320 --> 0:17:37.679 It's a bunch of guys talking about how amazing it is. 0:17:37.720 --> 0:17:38.840 Elon Musk has saved the world. 0:17:38.880 --> 0:17:42.879 He's built himself a a like credible media following in 0:17:42.920 --> 0:17:45.439 the same way that Alex Jones is a credible medio following. 0:17:45.680 --> 0:17:48.400 But of course it's also created all of this polarization. 0:17:48.560 --> 0:17:51.399 And when you see these you know, union actions going on, 0:17:51.840 --> 0:17:54.480 you know in Nordic countries, and of course the threat 0:17:54.480 --> 0:17:57.800 of union actions in the United States, having Elon Musk 0:17:57.840 --> 0:18:02.159 out there doing hard right signaling is working against him. 0:18:02.080 --> 0:18:03.080 Makes it more of a target. 0:18:03.280 --> 0:18:07.320 Absolutely, These you know organizing efforts, right are partly about 0:18:07.359 --> 0:18:10.360 like person to person contact, but they're also partly about 0:18:10.400 --> 0:18:14.840 political context and cultural context. And he's doing himself no favors, right, 0:18:14.880 --> 0:18:17.320 He's like, most of these union activists are not going 0:18:17.400 --> 0:18:21.720 to be big men's rights you know, Alex Jones fanatics 0:18:21.760 --> 0:18:23.760 to say the least, and we're not even talking about 0:18:23.760 --> 0:18:24.320 the customers. 0:18:24.400 --> 0:18:26.960 Well, well, let me also make just one one quick 0:18:27.000 --> 0:18:31.960 point about polling, which is that it is not the 0:18:32.000 --> 0:18:34.720 will of the people. If you run a poll on 0:18:35.080 --> 0:18:37.639 x it doesn't say super scientific. I don't know if 0:18:37.680 --> 0:18:39.160 this needs to be said, but in case it does. 0:18:39.480 --> 0:18:41.679 You know, Elon Musk, he he is the most followed 0:18:41.720 --> 0:18:45.600 person on the platform. But you know, we've found in 0:18:45.800 --> 0:18:50.680 reporting supported by a nonprofit digital rights group, Accountable Tech, 0:18:50.720 --> 0:18:53.520 that with less than one hundred dollars you can buy 0:18:53.600 --> 0:18:56.680 tens of thousands of votes for a Twitter poll easily. 0:18:57.200 --> 0:18:59.600 So wow, well that's tempting. 0:19:00.040 --> 0:19:02.199 It was, you know, of course, as it always is 0:19:02.240 --> 0:19:05.720 with with Musk over a weekend. You know, when that 0:19:05.720 --> 0:19:08.800 that fan base is maybe online and most people are not. 0:19:09.320 --> 0:19:12.120 And I think that we just need to be careful 0:19:12.119 --> 0:19:15.440 about you know, when Musk says I did this because 0:19:15.440 --> 0:19:16.919 it was the will of the people. I did this 0:19:17.040 --> 0:19:21.120 because this is what people voted for. You know, these 0:19:21.160 --> 0:19:24.320 things are not at all democratic. 0:19:24.040 --> 0:19:24.960 Right right. 0:19:25.040 --> 0:19:26.720 I want to say one other thing, which is that 0:19:27.040 --> 0:19:32.480 during this space is the k Ramaswami audibly peeded, like as. 0:19:32.400 --> 0:19:35.320 A way to make a statement or not just accidental 0:19:35.520 --> 0:19:36.400 like in the Naked Gun. 0:19:36.720 --> 0:19:39.880 Okay, it was just an It was just like the 0:19:40.600 --> 0:19:41.080 like it was. 0:19:41.000 --> 0:19:43.760 The Highlight Now Max, there is some chatter out there 0:19:44.320 --> 0:19:48.720 in some circles that Apple, like it briefly banned Parlor 0:19:49.000 --> 0:19:53.200 from the App Store for similarly lax content moderation after 0:19:53.240 --> 0:19:56.160 the Gen sixth insurrection, that there's cheddar that that that 0:19:56.200 --> 0:20:00.040 they could perhaps do the same to X now thoughts. 0:20:00.080 --> 0:20:03.639 Well, yeah, Musk himself has kind of driven that chatter, right. 0:20:03.720 --> 0:20:09.280 He earlier talked about the prospect that Apple would you know, 0:20:09.320 --> 0:20:11.359 would ban him from the App Store. There was this 0:20:11.480 --> 0:20:15.200 kind of summit between Tim Cook and Musk. I think 0:20:15.240 --> 0:20:20.879 that's an extremely unrealistic possibility. It definitely serves the interests 0:20:20.920 --> 0:20:24.080 of the kind of right who like the narrative of 0:20:24.119 --> 0:20:26.720 prosecution by big tech is really important. But the truth 0:20:26.840 --> 0:20:30.640 is Alex Jones being on X that he's not. That's 0:20:30.680 --> 0:20:32.920 not the only platform that has allowed Alex Jones. Right now, 0:20:32.920 --> 0:20:35.359 you can go to the app store and download Rumble, 0:20:35.400 --> 0:20:38.080 which is the main platform for you know, Jones and 0:20:38.200 --> 0:20:42.200 Russell brand. The other thing is when when Apple banned 0:20:42.280 --> 0:20:45.639 Parlor in twenty twenty one, the context was very different. 0:20:45.680 --> 0:20:48.679 It was right after January sixth. You had Jones, you know, 0:20:48.840 --> 0:20:52.040 involved into some extent at least in the you know, 0:20:52.080 --> 0:20:55.760 attempted insurrection, but that is not what's going on right now. 0:20:55.760 --> 0:20:58.360 The context is very different, and you know, I don't 0:20:58.400 --> 0:21:01.119 think Apple is going to take action anytime soon, and 0:21:01.240 --> 0:21:04.639 really that that conversation is mostly happening kind of in 0:21:05.119 --> 0:21:10.560 right wing corners media. 0:21:11.080 --> 0:21:12.680 You know, none of this seems like a great way 0:21:12.720 --> 0:21:16.400 to lun back advertisers, you know, with Disney and IBM 0:21:16.560 --> 0:21:19.919 and NBC among others pulling their ads, you know, which 0:21:20.040 --> 0:21:24.240 leads us to our final little bonus part of the show, 0:21:24.720 --> 0:21:28.679 where we use the scrappy gang of smaller advertisers that 0:21:28.720 --> 0:21:32.359 have remained on X. Using them, We've created a challenge 0:21:32.359 --> 0:21:36.359 for our vaunted muscologists, using only the ads you see 0:21:36.359 --> 0:21:40.360 there on the platform. You have to select holiday gifts 0:21:40.600 --> 0:21:46.400 for the other panelists, and Sarah Fryar, you are up first. 0:21:46.040 --> 0:21:49.879 So my top gift, and you know, caveat that. I 0:21:50.000 --> 0:21:52.240 just remember which ads get served to me the most. 0:21:52.720 --> 0:21:55.840 And for the last month it has been over and 0:21:55.880 --> 0:21:59.920