1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:02,679 Speaker 1: It's time to get inside the Giants huts. 2 00:00:03,960 --> 00:00:07,760 Speaker 2: Get my Giants, give me some job. 3 00:00:07,840 --> 00:00:10,240 Speaker 1: Part of the Giants Podcast Network. Let's roll. 4 00:00:10,480 --> 00:00:13,280 Speaker 2: Welcome to another edition of the Giants Huddle Podcast, brought 5 00:00:13,280 --> 00:00:15,480 Speaker 2: to you by Citizens, the official bank of the New 6 00:00:15,600 --> 00:00:19,520 Speaker 2: York Football Giants. I am John Schmelk. Join now by 7 00:00:19,720 --> 00:00:21,919 Speaker 2: Eric Eager. Second time he's been with us here on 8 00:00:21,960 --> 00:00:24,400 Speaker 2: the Giants Httle Podcast. He is the vice president of 9 00:00:24,480 --> 00:00:28,280 Speaker 2: research and Development at Sumer Sports, which is a consulting 10 00:00:28,320 --> 00:00:31,840 Speaker 2: company for NFL teams trying to figure out ways to 11 00:00:31,960 --> 00:00:35,680 Speaker 2: successfully build NFL franchises, and given we're about to head 12 00:00:35,680 --> 00:00:38,080 Speaker 2: into off season mode right now, I thought Eric would 13 00:00:38,080 --> 00:00:39,319 Speaker 2: be a great person to talk to you to try 14 00:00:39,360 --> 00:00:41,839 Speaker 2: to figure out what type of moves the Giants might 15 00:00:41,880 --> 00:00:44,080 Speaker 2: want to make here moving forward to get back into 16 00:00:44,080 --> 00:00:47,080 Speaker 2: the NFL playoffs, like the teams that'll be participating in 17 00:00:47,120 --> 00:00:49,479 Speaker 2: the Super Bowl this year. Where Eric Egra is in 18 00:00:49,520 --> 00:00:51,720 Speaker 2: lovely Las Vegas. Eric, what's going on, man? Thanks for 19 00:00:51,720 --> 00:00:52,279 Speaker 2: being with us. 20 00:00:52,840 --> 00:00:55,360 Speaker 3: Yeah, John's great to see you, and it's I can't 21 00:00:55,360 --> 00:00:57,440 Speaker 3: believe we're already through the CSA. 22 00:00:57,480 --> 00:00:57,680 Speaker 4: Man. 23 00:00:58,440 --> 00:01:00,440 Speaker 2: I know it goes fast. I just can't back from 24 00:01:00,480 --> 00:01:03,760 Speaker 2: Frisco and mobile. So I'm already in the offseason mode. 25 00:01:03,920 --> 00:01:05,880 Speaker 2: For the people fortunate enough to still be in regular 26 00:01:05,920 --> 00:01:08,760 Speaker 2: season mode, let's start there. What lessons did you and 27 00:01:09,040 --> 00:01:11,560 Speaker 2: your group over there at Toomer Sports take out of 28 00:01:11,640 --> 00:01:13,839 Speaker 2: not just the two Super Bowl teams, but the final 29 00:01:13,880 --> 00:01:16,399 Speaker 2: four and the final eight from this year's playoff teams 30 00:01:16,400 --> 00:01:17,680 Speaker 2: in terms of team building. 31 00:01:20,240 --> 00:01:23,679 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think when you look at you know, right now, 32 00:01:23,680 --> 00:01:27,200 Speaker 3: we have the basically since twenty twelve, right we have 33 00:01:27,240 --> 00:01:30,720 Speaker 3: another Super Bowl, all of them since except for twenty sixteen. 34 00:01:31,000 --> 00:01:33,399 Speaker 3: We have all the Super Bowls except for one, have 35 00:01:33,520 --> 00:01:37,080 Speaker 3: had a team built around at quarterback who is making 36 00:01:37,160 --> 00:01:41,480 Speaker 3: rookie deal money. So you know, with the exception of 37 00:01:41,520 --> 00:01:44,600 Speaker 3: Patrick Mahomes and Tom Brady and Peyton Manning, it's just 38 00:01:44,840 --> 00:01:48,600 Speaker 3: incredibly hard to win in the NFL when your quarterback 39 00:01:48,680 --> 00:01:50,760 Speaker 3: makes a lot of money. And I think, like you know, 40 00:01:50,760 --> 00:01:52,919 Speaker 3: when you look at the Giants, you know, Daniel Jones 41 00:01:52,920 --> 00:01:55,520 Speaker 3: played I think, really good football in twenty twenty two, 42 00:01:55,760 --> 00:01:56,880 Speaker 3: twenty twenty three. 43 00:01:57,240 --> 00:01:58,760 Speaker 4: You know, they played a tougher schedule. 44 00:01:59,400 --> 00:02:01,760 Speaker 3: A lot of things came I think to ahead as 45 00:02:01,800 --> 00:02:05,160 Speaker 3: far as the roster maturity, and you know, people catching 46 00:02:05,240 --> 00:02:07,840 Speaker 3: up a little bit to the scheme, and so you know, 47 00:02:07,880 --> 00:02:11,000 Speaker 3: I think a question, I think a question for them becomes, 48 00:02:11,560 --> 00:02:13,639 Speaker 3: how do you look at the Kansas City Chiefs with 49 00:02:13,800 --> 00:02:17,320 Speaker 3: a quarterback like Patrick Mahons first ever quarterback in the 50 00:02:17,360 --> 00:02:20,400 Speaker 3: history of the league to have the biggest cap hit 51 00:02:20,720 --> 00:02:23,040 Speaker 3: also make the Super Bowl? How do you look at 52 00:02:23,040 --> 00:02:25,840 Speaker 3: their approach to team building and say, how can we 53 00:02:25,840 --> 00:02:28,240 Speaker 3: build the second best defense in the NFL? How can 54 00:02:28,280 --> 00:02:31,720 Speaker 3: we build an offensive line that is able to you know, 55 00:02:31,760 --> 00:02:35,120 Speaker 3: have Patrick Mahmes generate the second lowest sack rate in 56 00:02:35,160 --> 00:02:38,720 Speaker 3: the NFL, behind just Josh Allen. And how can you 57 00:02:38,760 --> 00:02:41,639 Speaker 3: deal and how can you live with the tensions that 58 00:02:41,680 --> 00:02:44,040 Speaker 3: arise from weaknesses and the roster? The Chiefs have one 59 00:02:44,080 --> 00:02:46,160 Speaker 3: of the worst receiving courts in the NFL, only one 60 00:02:46,160 --> 00:02:48,519 Speaker 3: wide receiver with only over five hundred yards this year 61 00:02:48,720 --> 00:02:51,240 Speaker 3: and no wide receivers with over one thousand. You know, 62 00:02:51,320 --> 00:02:54,520 Speaker 3: a lot of those same issues the Giants grapple with. 63 00:02:54,840 --> 00:02:57,280 Speaker 3: And yet you know, for them it becomes I think 64 00:02:57,280 --> 00:03:00,760 Speaker 3: catastrophic at times because you know they don't have you know, 65 00:03:00,800 --> 00:03:03,160 Speaker 3: the quarterback that's you know, the quarterbacks to stick or 66 00:03:03,280 --> 00:03:04,960 Speaker 3: six or seven out of ten and maybe not a 67 00:03:04,960 --> 00:03:05,480 Speaker 3: ten out of ten. 68 00:03:05,520 --> 00:03:08,040 Speaker 4: The way Mahomes is, how can you know Dable? 69 00:03:08,160 --> 00:03:11,160 Speaker 3: How can Daniel Jones come together to squeeze a little 70 00:03:11,160 --> 00:03:13,079 Speaker 3: bit more juice side of the orange? And how can 71 00:03:13,120 --> 00:03:15,320 Speaker 3: they you know with how can they as a front 72 00:03:15,360 --> 00:03:17,720 Speaker 3: office go in and you know, get the four or 73 00:03:17,760 --> 00:03:20,880 Speaker 3: five more talented players that can elevate the play and 74 00:03:20,919 --> 00:03:22,679 Speaker 3: the and the coaching of the most important people on 75 00:03:22,720 --> 00:03:23,120 Speaker 3: the roster. 76 00:03:23,639 --> 00:03:25,320 Speaker 2: All right, you hit a lot of good topics. Now 77 00:03:25,320 --> 00:03:26,560 Speaker 2: I want to hit on one at a time here. 78 00:03:26,760 --> 00:03:29,480 Speaker 2: So one, do you still think more important for teams 79 00:03:29,480 --> 00:03:34,160 Speaker 2: to focus on offense rather than defense? Since maybe one 80 00:03:34,160 --> 00:03:36,440 Speaker 2: great offensive player like a quarterback, has sustained you for 81 00:03:36,480 --> 00:03:39,520 Speaker 2: a longer period of time. Where do you lean that 82 00:03:39,560 --> 00:03:41,280 Speaker 2: way in terms of what has a better chance of 83 00:03:41,320 --> 00:03:43,119 Speaker 2: getting you to where you want to go, a really 84 00:03:43,160 --> 00:03:45,520 Speaker 2: good offense or really good defense and then sustaining that 85 00:03:45,600 --> 00:03:46,839 Speaker 2: over a longer period of time. 86 00:03:47,560 --> 00:03:50,320 Speaker 3: Well, really good offense is just easier to build because 87 00:03:50,320 --> 00:03:53,240 Speaker 3: it takes fewer degrees of freedom. Right, So you know, 88 00:03:53,720 --> 00:03:57,720 Speaker 3: oftentimes you know, the data says that quarterbacks stroll a 89 00:03:57,720 --> 00:04:00,920 Speaker 3: lot more of their pressure rate than offensive line Patrick Mahomes. 90 00:04:01,080 --> 00:04:03,840 Speaker 3: You know, for example, I mentioned that that pressure rate 91 00:04:04,080 --> 00:04:07,280 Speaker 3: and the sack rate. That offensive line has gotten worse 92 00:04:07,320 --> 00:04:09,720 Speaker 3: this year. They gave up one percent more pressure because 93 00:04:09,800 --> 00:04:12,760 Speaker 3: Juwan Taylor led the league in penalties, but was also 94 00:04:13,080 --> 00:04:16,080 Speaker 3: you know, a very you know, giving player at the 95 00:04:16,120 --> 00:04:17,719 Speaker 3: right side of the offensive line as a pre agent 96 00:04:17,720 --> 00:04:20,880 Speaker 3: over from Jacksonville. Donovan Smith, you know, was injured for 97 00:04:20,880 --> 00:04:22,479 Speaker 3: a lot of times. They were starting a third round 98 00:04:22,520 --> 00:04:24,800 Speaker 3: rookie at left tackle and Wanya Morris for part of 99 00:04:24,839 --> 00:04:28,640 Speaker 3: the season, but the quarterbacks able to overcome that, you know, 100 00:04:28,680 --> 00:04:31,279 Speaker 3: at wide receiver, they really struggled for she Rice eventually 101 00:04:31,320 --> 00:04:33,800 Speaker 3: emerged and had more more receiving yards than any rookie 102 00:04:34,279 --> 00:04:37,200 Speaker 3: in you know, Andy Reid's career. But you know, Mark 103 00:04:37,240 --> 00:04:39,600 Speaker 3: wis Valdez, Scambling, Sky Moore, a lot of guys that 104 00:04:39,640 --> 00:04:42,320 Speaker 3: the Chiefs really wanted to be better players didn't and 105 00:04:42,360 --> 00:04:44,600 Speaker 3: they were still able to sort of overcome it. Sometimes 106 00:04:44,800 --> 00:04:48,320 Speaker 3: on defense, it takes a concerted effort because it's such 107 00:04:48,360 --> 00:04:51,239 Speaker 3: an eleven player deal. 108 00:04:51,360 --> 00:04:51,560 Speaker 4: Right. 109 00:04:52,760 --> 00:04:54,760 Speaker 3: The one of the craziest stats is the Chiefs have 110 00:04:54,880 --> 00:04:57,960 Speaker 3: drafted eight contributors for their defense the last three drafts, 111 00:04:58,279 --> 00:05:01,160 Speaker 3: six of them in twenty twenty two alone, And that's 112 00:05:01,200 --> 00:05:04,200 Speaker 3: part of the Tyreek kiltrade, but that takes concerted effort 113 00:05:04,520 --> 00:05:05,800 Speaker 3: and being able to hit. 114 00:05:05,720 --> 00:05:09,359 Speaker 4: On the picks, and so it's just a lot harder 115 00:05:09,440 --> 00:05:10,320 Speaker 4: to generate. 116 00:05:10,360 --> 00:05:14,080 Speaker 3: Defense and defense is harder to sustain as teams like 117 00:05:14,120 --> 00:05:15,839 Speaker 3: the Legion of Boom and teams like. 118 00:05:15,880 --> 00:05:17,800 Speaker 4: The Ravens who next year, I think they're gonna lose 119 00:05:17,839 --> 00:05:18,880 Speaker 4: Patrick Queen and they're. 120 00:05:18,760 --> 00:05:20,920 Speaker 3: Gonna, you know, get a year older with with guys 121 00:05:20,920 --> 00:05:23,159 Speaker 3: like Marlon Humphrey and they're probably gonna lose to Damian 122 00:05:23,200 --> 00:05:26,000 Speaker 3: Clowney and things like that. It's just harder to sustain defense, 123 00:05:26,200 --> 00:05:29,560 Speaker 3: and defense is a lot more sensitive to injuries and 124 00:05:29,640 --> 00:05:31,560 Speaker 3: players falling off because of age. 125 00:05:31,880 --> 00:05:32,040 Speaker 4: Yeah. 126 00:05:32,080 --> 00:05:34,920 Speaker 2: And to me, Eric, and maybe I'm simplifying this too much, 127 00:05:34,960 --> 00:05:37,880 Speaker 2: but to me, defense is more of a weakness based 128 00:05:38,000 --> 00:05:40,200 Speaker 2: group where if you're good in a couple of spots, 129 00:05:40,240 --> 00:05:41,880 Speaker 2: but do you have one glaring weakness the other team 130 00:05:41,880 --> 00:05:42,480 Speaker 2: can target that. 131 00:05:42,480 --> 00:05:43,640 Speaker 1: It's hard for you to mitigate that. 132 00:05:43,760 --> 00:05:47,080 Speaker 2: Right offense, though, I feel like you have more force 133 00:05:47,160 --> 00:05:49,880 Speaker 2: multipliers where one or two guys can elevate other groups 134 00:05:49,920 --> 00:05:52,920 Speaker 2: and you can overcome those weaknesses through your own game planning. 135 00:05:53,000 --> 00:05:53,520 Speaker 1: Is that fair? 136 00:05:54,240 --> 00:05:57,240 Speaker 3: Yeah, because you know you don't get to choose in 137 00:05:57,279 --> 00:05:59,480 Speaker 3: a lot of ways how the offense attacks you. So 138 00:06:00,040 --> 00:06:02,000 Speaker 3: if you have a weak corner or a week nickel 139 00:06:02,320 --> 00:06:06,000 Speaker 3: or a linebacker and coverage, like, you really can't dictate 140 00:06:06,040 --> 00:06:09,320 Speaker 3: to the offense that they don't get to challenge you. Whereas, yeah, 141 00:06:09,320 --> 00:06:12,240 Speaker 3: if you're Kansas City and like your third receiver isn't 142 00:06:12,360 --> 00:06:14,520 Speaker 3: very good. You know what Kansas City has done really 143 00:06:14,600 --> 00:06:16,719 Speaker 3: well in the playoffs. They've gone to more two and 144 00:06:16,760 --> 00:06:19,240 Speaker 3: three tight end sets, so they can eliminate that player 145 00:06:19,279 --> 00:06:21,920 Speaker 3: from the NOL grouping. They can run the football more. 146 00:06:22,000 --> 00:06:24,040 Speaker 3: They can do that kind of thing. Now there's limits 147 00:06:24,040 --> 00:06:25,640 Speaker 3: to that. Of course, you can't run the football on 148 00:06:25,680 --> 00:06:28,719 Speaker 3: third and ten, but you can you can eliminate some 149 00:06:28,800 --> 00:06:31,600 Speaker 3: of those situations that put you in harm's way. Whereas 150 00:06:31,920 --> 00:06:33,640 Speaker 3: the offense, you know, they can put you in a 151 00:06:33,640 --> 00:06:35,599 Speaker 3: week spots. So to your point, it's much more weakly 152 00:06:35,720 --> 00:06:39,040 Speaker 3: system And that's what makes it tough because it's really 153 00:06:39,080 --> 00:06:41,880 Speaker 3: hard to buy average. It's really hard to draft average 154 00:06:41,880 --> 00:06:45,040 Speaker 3: in the NFL. Oftentimes you get to average on accident. Right, 155 00:06:45,080 --> 00:06:47,880 Speaker 3: You draft weaker players and they become average and that's 156 00:06:47,880 --> 00:06:50,760 Speaker 3: a good thing. Or you sign elite players and they 157 00:06:50,760 --> 00:06:53,880 Speaker 3: become average, which is a bad thing. But it's really 158 00:06:53,880 --> 00:06:55,880 Speaker 3: hard to sort of like call your shot and say, 159 00:06:56,240 --> 00:06:59,599 Speaker 3: I'm signing an average linebacker. I'm signing an average love tackle. 160 00:07:00,080 --> 00:07:02,440 Speaker 3: Ever seen an average left tackle in creagency? You know 161 00:07:02,480 --> 00:07:04,920 Speaker 3: that because those players are actually incredibly valuable, the same 162 00:07:04,920 --> 00:07:07,680 Speaker 3: way that's starting pitching is incredibly valuable. Even an average 163 00:07:07,680 --> 00:07:10,000 Speaker 3: starting pitcher in baseball is going to be worth fifteen 164 00:07:10,040 --> 00:07:12,480 Speaker 3: to twenty million in the CRE agency market. So that 165 00:07:12,480 --> 00:07:14,360 Speaker 3: that's I think you hit the nail on the head there, 166 00:07:14,400 --> 00:07:17,360 Speaker 3: And that's why to your point, you're looking for force multiplayers, 167 00:07:17,600 --> 00:07:20,320 Speaker 3: and oftentimes on offense, it's just so much more. It's 168 00:07:20,320 --> 00:07:21,800 Speaker 3: so much easier to find those players. 169 00:07:21,960 --> 00:07:24,320 Speaker 2: Now, I'll say the one exception that on offense, and 170 00:07:24,360 --> 00:07:25,840 Speaker 2: I'd love to see if you disagree with me, is 171 00:07:25,840 --> 00:07:28,920 Speaker 2: the offensive line, right, because as an offensive group, you 172 00:07:28,960 --> 00:07:31,680 Speaker 2: can't control how the defense is going to attack your 173 00:07:31,680 --> 00:07:32,600 Speaker 2: offensive line right. 174 00:07:32,600 --> 00:07:34,240 Speaker 1: And much like defense, you could have. 175 00:07:34,240 --> 00:07:36,880 Speaker 2: Three really good, all pro level players, but if you're 176 00:07:36,920 --> 00:07:39,720 Speaker 2: right tackles things, guess what, and your left guards awful, 177 00:07:39,760 --> 00:07:41,800 Speaker 2: you could probably only help on one side to mitigate 178 00:07:41,840 --> 00:07:42,640 Speaker 2: one of those weaknesses. 179 00:07:42,720 --> 00:07:45,600 Speaker 1: Right. So, as the Giants continue as they've been for 180 00:07:45,720 --> 00:07:48,280 Speaker 1: what seems like fifteen years trying to more like ten 181 00:07:48,560 --> 00:07:51,520 Speaker 1: build out that offensive line and make it a better group. 182 00:07:51,880 --> 00:07:53,160 Speaker 1: What's the best way to approach that? 183 00:07:53,280 --> 00:07:55,360 Speaker 2: Are you looking for the elite player, Eric, Are you 184 00:07:55,400 --> 00:07:58,680 Speaker 2: looking to spread those resources out to just get a 185 00:07:58,720 --> 00:08:01,000 Speaker 2: bunch of guys that are okay, an. 186 00:08:00,960 --> 00:08:02,200 Speaker 1: Average but not bad. 187 00:08:02,720 --> 00:08:05,720 Speaker 2: How do you best allocate those resources to finally build 188 00:08:05,760 --> 00:08:09,720 Speaker 2: an offensive line that can protect Daniel Jones and help 189 00:08:09,800 --> 00:08:12,200 Speaker 2: run the ball, take on Barkley and whatever else did 190 00:08:12,240 --> 00:08:13,320 Speaker 2: Jihants want to do offensively? 191 00:08:13,360 --> 00:08:16,200 Speaker 3: Well? Luckily, luckily history has a really good guide for us, 192 00:08:16,200 --> 00:08:19,720 Speaker 3: because you know, tackles are premium position players and so 193 00:08:20,560 --> 00:08:23,400 Speaker 3: and usually those tackles. You know, you have exceptions like 194 00:08:23,480 --> 00:08:26,400 Speaker 3: David Batiari and guys like that, but for the most part, 195 00:08:26,600 --> 00:08:28,360 Speaker 3: and Giants fans know this, if you want to get 196 00:08:28,360 --> 00:08:30,920 Speaker 3: an elite tackle, you generally speaking have to take them 197 00:08:30,920 --> 00:08:31,520 Speaker 3: really hot. 198 00:08:31,880 --> 00:08:33,800 Speaker 4: And that doesn't mean you're going to get one. Sometimes 199 00:08:33,840 --> 00:08:35,640 Speaker 4: there Evan Neil and sometimes r Andrew. 200 00:08:35,360 --> 00:08:39,119 Speaker 3: Thomas, but you have to take elite tackles high guards. 201 00:08:39,480 --> 00:08:41,280 Speaker 3: You can sign them in free agency when you look 202 00:08:41,320 --> 00:08:43,240 Speaker 3: at you know, the free agency market this year at 203 00:08:43,280 --> 00:08:48,000 Speaker 3: Guards has plenty of has plenty of talented players, and 204 00:08:48,200 --> 00:08:50,480 Speaker 3: you know, in free agency, generally speaking, you're able to 205 00:08:50,520 --> 00:08:54,480 Speaker 3: sign guards and centers and linebackers and nickel corners and 206 00:08:54,520 --> 00:08:58,160 Speaker 3: safeties and fullbacks and tight ends and slot receivers and 207 00:08:58,280 --> 00:09:01,120 Speaker 3: running backs. If you want to get a tackle, you've 208 00:09:01,120 --> 00:09:03,040 Speaker 3: got to take them high in the draft generally, and 209 00:09:03,080 --> 00:09:06,360 Speaker 3: you can take like you know, in Philadelphia, Jordan Mailato 210 00:09:06,520 --> 00:09:09,240 Speaker 3: was a guy that emerged, but that was because he 211 00:09:09,360 --> 00:09:11,520 Speaker 3: was a headgeoh Andre Diller who was a top end pick. 212 00:09:11,800 --> 00:09:13,240 Speaker 4: So that's kind of where you go. 213 00:09:13,360 --> 00:09:16,280 Speaker 3: If you have weaknesses at garden center, you generally speaking 214 00:09:16,440 --> 00:09:18,199 Speaker 3: can go out in free agency and pay up a 215 00:09:18,240 --> 00:09:20,440 Speaker 3: little bit to get them. They're not that expensive and 216 00:09:20,480 --> 00:09:23,840 Speaker 3: they're accessible. If you have a weakness at tackle, like 217 00:09:23,960 --> 00:09:25,600 Speaker 3: for the most part, you either have to go back 218 00:09:25,640 --> 00:09:28,000 Speaker 3: into the draft and draft them or you have to 219 00:09:28,120 --> 00:09:29,960 Speaker 3: go and trade for one of them, you know, a 220 00:09:30,080 --> 00:09:32,760 Speaker 3: lah Duwayne Brown or Trent Williams or something like that, 221 00:09:33,000 --> 00:09:34,679 Speaker 3: and you really have to wrestle them away from the 222 00:09:34,720 --> 00:09:38,120 Speaker 3: teams that have bound gold there and that can be typical. 223 00:09:38,920 --> 00:09:40,079 Speaker 1: Agree with you one hundred percent. 224 00:09:40,640 --> 00:09:42,680 Speaker 2: And the Giants I think are in a position here 225 00:09:42,679 --> 00:09:44,920 Speaker 2: to target center or not center they draft to John 226 00:09:44,920 --> 00:09:47,240 Speaker 2: Michael Schwiss, but guard certainly in Fringcy this year where 227 00:09:47,240 --> 00:09:49,280 Speaker 2: they've had some issues the last couple of years. And 228 00:09:49,320 --> 00:09:51,280 Speaker 2: then we'll see about tackle the top of the draft, 229 00:09:51,280 --> 00:09:53,800 Speaker 2: which is gonna come down to a decision, right, and 230 00:09:53,840 --> 00:09:56,280 Speaker 2: we all remember the Bengals decision a couple of years ago, 231 00:09:56,280 --> 00:09:58,040 Speaker 2: Well do you draft Penney so or do you draft 232 00:09:58,120 --> 00:10:00,800 Speaker 2: Jamar Chase. The Giants could be staring that type of 233 00:10:00,840 --> 00:10:03,319 Speaker 2: decision right in the face this year if they have 234 00:10:03,400 --> 00:10:06,240 Speaker 2: Roma Dunza e Laitue neighbors Olufashanu Joel. 235 00:10:06,679 --> 00:10:08,079 Speaker 1: Putting aside the quality of the. 236 00:10:08,000 --> 00:10:12,280 Speaker 2: Players, assuming they all have similar grades, you know, eye 237 00:10:12,280 --> 00:10:15,200 Speaker 2: the beholder, all that stuff, where should a team go 238 00:10:15,320 --> 00:10:17,960 Speaker 2: Because to your point, you can't find elite offensive tackles 239 00:10:17,960 --> 00:10:18,480 Speaker 2: in free agency. 240 00:10:18,520 --> 00:10:19,240 Speaker 1: They never get there. 241 00:10:19,400 --> 00:10:21,720 Speaker 2: Well, it's the same for one a wide receivers now right, 242 00:10:21,760 --> 00:10:23,520 Speaker 2: these guys don't it for agency. If you want to 243 00:10:23,559 --> 00:10:26,559 Speaker 2: get one, maybe you can trade for one Devonte Adams Tyree, cool, 244 00:10:26,559 --> 00:10:29,720 Speaker 2: but you can't sign one. So in terms of ultimate value, 245 00:10:29,800 --> 00:10:32,600 Speaker 2: where do you see that wide receiver? Now, elite wide 246 00:10:32,640 --> 00:10:34,080 Speaker 2: receiver versus elite tackle. 247 00:10:35,040 --> 00:10:37,600 Speaker 3: I think it really depends upon what your internal say 248 00:10:37,640 --> 00:10:40,719 Speaker 3: about aviad neal right, because you know Andrew Thomas as 249 00:10:40,720 --> 00:10:43,400 Speaker 3: a rookie was not very good, and you know we've 250 00:10:43,440 --> 00:10:46,560 Speaker 3: seen over and over and over again often like that's 251 00:10:46,559 --> 00:10:48,880 Speaker 3: the toughest position in football. You know, you think about 252 00:10:49,320 --> 00:10:52,280 Speaker 3: Danielle Hunter, you think about von but you think about 253 00:10:52,280 --> 00:10:55,400 Speaker 3: these adonniss that play defensive end in the league, and 254 00:10:55,440 --> 00:10:59,240 Speaker 3: you think about the athletic mismatch between tackle and the 255 00:10:59,320 --> 00:11:02,800 Speaker 3: NFL and the defensive end. And when you look at 256 00:11:02,840 --> 00:11:08,080 Speaker 3: age curves, offensive line have the longest age curves, right, 257 00:11:08,160 --> 00:11:10,880 Speaker 3: it takes forever for them to actually peek. And so 258 00:11:11,280 --> 00:11:13,360 Speaker 3: in my opinion, it's all coming down to do you 259 00:11:13,360 --> 00:11:16,160 Speaker 3: think Evan Neil's first two years are indicative of who 260 00:11:16,240 --> 00:11:19,000 Speaker 3: he is or do you think it's one year more 261 00:11:19,000 --> 00:11:21,880 Speaker 3: than Andrew Thomas, which is Andrew Thomas struggling in your one, 262 00:11:21,920 --> 00:11:23,800 Speaker 3: it's really good in your two and now as a 263 00:11:23,840 --> 00:11:25,559 Speaker 3: cornerstone on this franchise, deserving of. 264 00:11:25,480 --> 00:11:26,320 Speaker 4: The long term deal. 265 00:11:26,679 --> 00:11:29,120 Speaker 3: If Evan Neil is a guy that can actually play 266 00:11:29,160 --> 00:11:31,520 Speaker 3: for you, then you bake the bet on one of 267 00:11:31,520 --> 00:11:35,360 Speaker 3: the wide receivers because you know ultimately it's you know 268 00:11:35,520 --> 00:11:37,720 Speaker 3: you're gonna end up moving Neil to guard or something 269 00:11:37,760 --> 00:11:39,520 Speaker 3: like that. If you take a tackle in the first 270 00:11:39,600 --> 00:11:41,679 Speaker 3: round and one of those tackles is going to play 271 00:11:41,720 --> 00:11:44,360 Speaker 3: right tackle, which is not you know, it might be 272 00:11:44,559 --> 00:11:46,520 Speaker 3: a position change for one of them if you end 273 00:11:46,600 --> 00:11:48,960 Speaker 3: up with one. Yeah, so I think that Neil is 274 00:11:49,000 --> 00:11:50,520 Speaker 3: probably the guy you want to go with. And you 275 00:11:50,520 --> 00:11:52,240 Speaker 3: want to draft a wide receiver and just say, look, 276 00:11:52,320 --> 00:11:54,880 Speaker 3: Daniel Jones, you're gonna have to be a quicker processor. 277 00:11:55,120 --> 00:11:56,400 Speaker 3: You're gonna have to get the ball out of your 278 00:11:56,400 --> 00:11:59,680 Speaker 3: hands faster as Evan Neal grows into this position, and 279 00:11:59,760 --> 00:12:01,960 Speaker 3: that to me is probably the best gamble. But if 280 00:12:01,960 --> 00:12:04,640 Speaker 3: they internally don't believe Vandil is going to figure the 281 00:12:04,679 --> 00:12:06,520 Speaker 3: thing out, then you have to cut bait on it. 282 00:12:06,600 --> 00:12:09,480 Speaker 3: And even though he was a high draft pick, you 283 00:12:09,520 --> 00:12:13,080 Speaker 3: know there's value. Of course, Robert Gallery, for example, was 284 00:12:13,080 --> 00:12:15,320 Speaker 3: a pretty good guard in the NFL, even though he 285 00:12:15,400 --> 00:12:17,280 Speaker 3: was a high draft pick as a tackle and never 286 00:12:17,320 --> 00:12:17,960 Speaker 3: worked out there. 287 00:12:18,000 --> 00:12:19,160 Speaker 4: And that could always be the case. 288 00:12:19,160 --> 00:12:21,040 Speaker 3: And you know Neil can get You can get two 289 00:12:21,080 --> 00:12:24,320 Speaker 3: years of him as a plus player at guard while 290 00:12:24,360 --> 00:12:27,800 Speaker 3: you break in another rookie offensive tackle with a top 291 00:12:27,800 --> 00:12:28,160 Speaker 3: ten pick. 292 00:12:28,160 --> 00:12:30,080 Speaker 4: But it all depends upon what your grades are of him. 293 00:12:30,440 --> 00:12:32,120 Speaker 4: In my opinion, as. 294 00:12:32,000 --> 00:12:34,160 Speaker 2: You advise these teams, how much do you take into 295 00:12:34,200 --> 00:12:37,439 Speaker 2: consideration the fact that these wide receiver classes are now 296 00:12:37,480 --> 00:12:40,000 Speaker 2: so deep that you have a better shot at finding 297 00:12:40,000 --> 00:12:42,520 Speaker 2: a really good wide receiver with the Giants pick at 298 00:12:42,520 --> 00:12:44,440 Speaker 2: the top round two. Heck, maybe could even package your 299 00:12:44,440 --> 00:12:45,559 Speaker 2: second second round pick they got. 300 00:12:45,520 --> 00:12:47,160 Speaker 1: For Loti Wiams to move back up into the first. 301 00:12:47,400 --> 00:12:49,000 Speaker 2: However you want to do it that you have a 302 00:12:49,040 --> 00:12:52,480 Speaker 2: better chance of finding that wide receiver that could become 303 00:12:52,559 --> 00:12:55,760 Speaker 2: a true one wide receiver with a early second round, 304 00:12:55,840 --> 00:12:58,800 Speaker 2: late first round pick versus to your point you made earlier, 305 00:12:59,000 --> 00:13:00,880 Speaker 2: if you're going to get in the lead offensive tackle, 306 00:13:00,920 --> 00:13:02,240 Speaker 2: you better take one in the top ten. 307 00:13:02,800 --> 00:13:05,360 Speaker 3: Yeah, and the league doesn't value wide receivers all that 308 00:13:05,440 --> 00:13:07,200 Speaker 3: much to either, right, So when you if you take 309 00:13:07,200 --> 00:13:09,840 Speaker 3: a guy a wide receiver in the top ten, you're 310 00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:12,440 Speaker 3: you're going against the grain. Even in that big wide 311 00:13:12,440 --> 00:13:15,839 Speaker 3: receiver draft of twenty twenty two, Garrett Wilson was the 312 00:13:15,880 --> 00:13:17,800 Speaker 3: first guy take for no Is. Jake Glendon was the 313 00:13:17,800 --> 00:13:20,839 Speaker 3: first guy taken, and he was you know, he wasn't in. 314 00:13:20,800 --> 00:13:21,360 Speaker 4: The top five. 315 00:13:21,440 --> 00:13:22,960 Speaker 3: You know, we haven't seen a wide receiver that taken 316 00:13:22,960 --> 00:13:25,160 Speaker 3: in the top five in a long time last year. 317 00:13:25,200 --> 00:13:27,760 Speaker 3: The first one was taken in the twenties with Jackson 318 00:13:27,760 --> 00:13:31,680 Speaker 3: Smith and Jigba. The league prizes players on the interior 319 00:13:31,720 --> 00:13:35,000 Speaker 3: because they're just so much from a physical standpoint, so 320 00:13:35,080 --> 00:13:38,000 Speaker 3: much more rare that if you go step out and 321 00:13:38,040 --> 00:13:40,960 Speaker 3: take a wide receiver high, it's almost always going to 322 00:13:40,960 --> 00:13:42,600 Speaker 3: be against the grain. So you have to be right 323 00:13:42,640 --> 00:13:46,520 Speaker 3: about then, whereas with tackles you're you're going to be 324 00:13:46,720 --> 00:13:49,760 Speaker 3: kind of in step with the market. So I agree 325 00:13:49,760 --> 00:13:51,600 Speaker 3: with you, And there's almost always when you look at 326 00:13:51,760 --> 00:13:55,200 Speaker 3: hit rates on second round wide receivers, they're generally speaking 327 00:13:55,240 --> 00:13:58,000 Speaker 3: better than market rates, and so it's a pretty good 328 00:13:58,040 --> 00:14:00,439 Speaker 3: gamble to wait on them. And the other part of 329 00:14:00,480 --> 00:14:02,560 Speaker 3: the NFL, which is true, and I would I really 330 00:14:02,600 --> 00:14:03,760 Speaker 3: liked about the Jalen Hyatt. 331 00:14:03,760 --> 00:14:06,000 Speaker 4: Thin is wide receivers. 332 00:14:06,480 --> 00:14:07,920 Speaker 3: You know, you think about back in the day for 333 00:14:07,960 --> 00:14:10,560 Speaker 3: the Giants, I kill your and Domani too or not, 334 00:14:10,640 --> 00:14:13,120 Speaker 3: Hockey knicks and guys like that. You know, those are 335 00:14:13,240 --> 00:14:15,760 Speaker 3: everything everywhere all at once. Wide receivers they do everything. 336 00:14:15,760 --> 00:14:17,280 Speaker 3: They play in the slot, they play on the outside, 337 00:14:17,280 --> 00:14:18,880 Speaker 3: They win out, they win short, they win long. 338 00:14:19,760 --> 00:14:22,520 Speaker 4: Modern NFL wide receiver. They all play a role. 339 00:14:22,720 --> 00:14:25,280 Speaker 3: Hyatt's the guy that makes sure the defense respects him 340 00:14:25,280 --> 00:14:27,440 Speaker 3: over the top. You know, some of the other guys 341 00:14:27,440 --> 00:14:30,800 Speaker 3: are more slot guys. If you draft the guy in 342 00:14:30,800 --> 00:14:32,840 Speaker 3: the second round, he can play a role for she 343 00:14:33,000 --> 00:14:35,000 Speaker 3: writes for the Chiefs played a role for the first 344 00:14:35,000 --> 00:14:37,800 Speaker 3: half of the year until he built himself into an 345 00:14:37,800 --> 00:14:38,920 Speaker 3: every down wide receiver. 346 00:14:39,400 --> 00:14:41,760 Speaker 4: It also lessens the blow on that player. 347 00:14:41,760 --> 00:14:43,880 Speaker 3: Whereas if you draft the wide receiver, like you know 348 00:14:43,920 --> 00:14:46,480 Speaker 3: Henry Ruggs in the top ten, and all he'd ends 349 00:14:46,560 --> 00:14:49,480 Speaker 3: up being for you is a deep threat in your 350 00:14:49,640 --> 00:14:52,280 Speaker 3: one that's already a busted pick in some ways because 351 00:14:52,440 --> 00:14:54,520 Speaker 3: everybody expects that player to be an every down player 352 00:14:54,640 --> 00:14:56,800 Speaker 3: like a tackle would be early on. So those are 353 00:14:56,840 --> 00:14:59,200 Speaker 3: considerations to think about, whereas if a guy's the second 354 00:14:59,280 --> 00:15:02,120 Speaker 3: round pick can be a contributor with a decent set 355 00:15:02,120 --> 00:15:06,280 Speaker 3: of expectations early on. You love turf, You're good at it, 356 00:15:06,920 --> 00:15:10,600 Speaker 3: so you start a turf fizz business grows, your savings grow, 357 00:15:11,040 --> 00:15:14,040 Speaker 3: become the most celebrated name in turf. 358 00:15:14,600 --> 00:15:16,440 Speaker 1: Are you ready for all that life brings? 359 00:15:18,760 --> 00:15:21,160 Speaker 2: Johnson Podcast is brought to you by Citizens, the official 360 00:15:21,160 --> 00:15:22,520 Speaker 2: bank of the Giants from game data. 361 00:15:22,560 --> 00:15:22,880 Speaker 1: Every day. 362 00:15:22,920 --> 00:15:25,480 Speaker 2: Citizens was made ready for Giants fans with insids, guidance 363 00:15:25,480 --> 00:15:28,920 Speaker 2: and solutions. Learn more at citizens bank dot com. Here 364 00:15:28,920 --> 00:15:31,360 Speaker 2: with Eric ear from Summer Sports. Let's stick on offense, Eric, 365 00:15:31,360 --> 00:15:33,240 Speaker 2: and I'll get to the quarterbacks position in a second 366 00:15:33,880 --> 00:15:37,080 Speaker 2: tight end. You know, it's funny I get the argument 367 00:15:37,080 --> 00:15:39,040 Speaker 2: against the tight end early because you're not getting the 368 00:15:39,040 --> 00:15:41,560 Speaker 2: financial advantage, right. You know, the tight end salaries are 369 00:15:41,560 --> 00:15:43,000 Speaker 2: not as big, so you're not saving as much money 370 00:15:43,040 --> 00:15:45,200 Speaker 2: picking a tight end early. But at the same time, 371 00:15:45,240 --> 00:15:48,640 Speaker 2: I feel like guys like Travis Kelce are a huge market. 372 00:15:48,360 --> 00:15:50,560 Speaker 1: Advantage when you sign them to the extension. 373 00:15:50,920 --> 00:15:52,880 Speaker 2: So just getting one of those guys then having an 374 00:15:52,880 --> 00:15:56,240 Speaker 2: elite player long term for what fourteen million a year 375 00:15:56,280 --> 00:15:58,800 Speaker 2: instead of twenty eight million for a top wide receiver, 376 00:15:59,120 --> 00:16:02,040 Speaker 2: that's an advantage too. So how do you view that 377 00:16:02,240 --> 00:16:05,960 Speaker 2: early tight end pick from a financial perspective? And also 378 00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:08,120 Speaker 2: remember you can get tight ends late that are good too. 379 00:16:08,920 --> 00:16:11,680 Speaker 4: Yeah, to me, it's almost always the position. 380 00:16:11,720 --> 00:16:14,760 Speaker 3: It's kind of like offensive line where if you look 381 00:16:14,760 --> 00:16:17,160 Speaker 3: at the hits rate of top guys, it's really low 382 00:16:17,200 --> 00:16:20,720 Speaker 3: because you got to be alignment type player physically and 383 00:16:20,760 --> 00:16:23,880 Speaker 3: you have to be a Rider's receiver type player from 384 00:16:23,920 --> 00:16:26,440 Speaker 3: an intelligence standpoint, and that's just hard to square. 385 00:16:26,680 --> 00:16:29,800 Speaker 4: The funny part though, and as Giants fans will. 386 00:16:29,600 --> 00:16:33,360 Speaker 3: Know, those guys almost always the athlete, the athletes that 387 00:16:33,400 --> 00:16:36,320 Speaker 3: you draft high, they end up being really you know, 388 00:16:36,400 --> 00:16:39,320 Speaker 3: they end up having salvageable careers elsewhere. Evan Ingram's a 389 00:16:39,320 --> 00:16:42,640 Speaker 3: good player for the Jaguars. You know, Ninjoku was the 390 00:16:42,640 --> 00:16:46,000 Speaker 3: one guy that everybody gave the Cleveland Browns a lot 391 00:16:46,000 --> 00:16:47,680 Speaker 3: of flack for signing him to a long term deal. 392 00:16:47,880 --> 00:16:50,520 Speaker 4: That's been great. I mean the Browns were basically like, yeah, 393 00:16:50,560 --> 00:16:53,520 Speaker 4: the drafting him was the mistake. Signing not signing him 394 00:16:53,520 --> 00:16:54,320 Speaker 4: would have been a mistake. 395 00:16:54,560 --> 00:16:56,520 Speaker 3: So if I'm the Giants and I'm looking for a 396 00:16:56,520 --> 00:16:59,200 Speaker 3: difference maker at the position, Waller was a good gamble. 397 00:16:59,240 --> 00:17:01,880 Speaker 3: But I'm looking at what if the Falcons take a 398 00:17:01,880 --> 00:17:05,200 Speaker 3: second or third round pick for Kyle Pitts. You've already, right, 399 00:17:05,680 --> 00:17:09,680 Speaker 3: the league's already evaluated him, for better or worse, right 400 00:17:10,160 --> 00:17:12,840 Speaker 3: they wanted before the evaluation, they took him at four. 401 00:17:13,240 --> 00:17:15,440 Speaker 3: Now they'll take him at you know, in the mid thirties, 402 00:17:15,880 --> 00:17:18,640 Speaker 3: and you get that opportunity pre you know, fifth year 403 00:17:18,640 --> 00:17:21,119 Speaker 3: option to get a couple of cheap years. But you 404 00:17:21,160 --> 00:17:23,440 Speaker 3: also get him right before all these other great you 405 00:17:23,480 --> 00:17:25,720 Speaker 3: think about Greg Olsen was better for his second team, 406 00:17:26,440 --> 00:17:29,199 Speaker 3: the Santoshenko a Giant, was really good with the Vikings 407 00:17:29,240 --> 00:17:31,320 Speaker 3: after playing behind Jeremy shot. 408 00:17:31,280 --> 00:17:33,920 Speaker 1: Shot, the Akle good pull, Eric Good Poll. 409 00:17:34,560 --> 00:17:36,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, and you think about all of these tight ends, 410 00:17:36,560 --> 00:17:39,119 Speaker 3: and it's just because that position. Jared Cook was terrible 411 00:17:39,160 --> 00:17:41,320 Speaker 3: in his first part of his career and really good 412 00:17:41,320 --> 00:17:43,639 Speaker 3: at the second part. It's just that that position is 413 00:17:43,640 --> 00:17:45,760 Speaker 3: so hard, and so that's the hard part about taking 414 00:17:45,800 --> 00:17:47,480 Speaker 3: him high. It's not that, like Kyle Pitts is in 415 00:17:47,520 --> 00:17:50,280 Speaker 3: a great prospect, it's that the time period in which 416 00:17:50,320 --> 00:17:54,880 Speaker 3: he has to develop is longer than the rookie deal 417 00:17:54,920 --> 00:17:57,560 Speaker 3: contact and so you almost never get I agree, once 418 00:17:57,600 --> 00:17:59,400 Speaker 3: you get him in the fold and you pay him, 419 00:17:59,520 --> 00:18:01,720 Speaker 3: you know, te Day Hawkins, it's another one. Once you 420 00:18:01,800 --> 00:18:04,280 Speaker 3: get him in the fold, he's going to be a 421 00:18:04,359 --> 00:18:07,160 Speaker 3: value because that market's so suppressed. But then the reason 422 00:18:07,160 --> 00:18:10,280 Speaker 3: it's suppressed is because those those rookie deal players don't 423 00:18:10,359 --> 00:18:11,840 Speaker 3: end up being for high performance. 424 00:18:12,760 --> 00:18:13,640 Speaker 1: No, that's interesting. 425 00:18:13,840 --> 00:18:15,760 Speaker 2: All right, Let's roll back to quarterback, and we talked 426 00:18:15,840 --> 00:18:18,000 Speaker 2: you talked about how the quarterback can elevate a lot 427 00:18:18,000 --> 00:18:19,399 Speaker 2: of issues and problems around them. 428 00:18:19,480 --> 00:18:22,280 Speaker 1: Right, one hundred percent agree. The Giants now are dealing. 429 00:18:22,119 --> 00:18:24,199 Speaker 2: With a quarterback that has a second neck injury and 430 00:18:24,240 --> 00:18:25,080 Speaker 2: an ACL tear. 431 00:18:25,200 --> 00:18:25,320 Speaker 1: Right. 432 00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:28,360 Speaker 2: I think both of us believe as of now, one 433 00:18:28,359 --> 00:18:30,240 Speaker 2: of those top three quarterbacks is probably not going to 434 00:18:30,320 --> 00:18:31,919 Speaker 2: be sitting there at six of them to pick. So 435 00:18:32,000 --> 00:18:34,200 Speaker 2: let's take that out of the equation. Let's just assume 436 00:18:34,200 --> 00:18:35,720 Speaker 2: one of those three teams are not going to want 437 00:18:35,760 --> 00:18:38,000 Speaker 2: to trade out of those picks, right, so those guys 438 00:18:38,000 --> 00:18:41,920 Speaker 2: are unavailable. What's the value to you of taking shots 439 00:18:41,960 --> 00:18:45,879 Speaker 2: on quarterbacks later in the draft? We've seen shots in 440 00:18:45,920 --> 00:18:49,439 Speaker 2: the dark work, right, Dak Prescott, Rock Purty. You know, 441 00:18:49,480 --> 00:18:51,600 Speaker 2: go down the list of late round picks, but there's 442 00:18:51,600 --> 00:18:54,119 Speaker 2: so few of them, and the percentage shit rate is 443 00:18:54,160 --> 00:18:54,680 Speaker 2: so low. 444 00:18:55,080 --> 00:18:57,240 Speaker 1: So from your guys perspective and you crunch. 445 00:18:57,000 --> 00:19:00,760 Speaker 2: The numbers, what's the value on taking those on Day 446 00:19:00,760 --> 00:19:03,000 Speaker 2: two and Day three on quarterbacks? Or maybe the hit 447 00:19:03,040 --> 00:19:06,280 Speaker 2: rates not great, but if you do, the reward is exponential. 448 00:19:06,960 --> 00:19:07,160 Speaker 4: Yeah. 449 00:19:07,320 --> 00:19:10,440 Speaker 3: Jalen Hurts for example, you know, you think about Kirk 450 00:19:10,440 --> 00:19:12,640 Speaker 3: Cousins in the same draft as RG three. 451 00:19:13,359 --> 00:19:14,520 Speaker 4: Uh, you know the hit rates. 452 00:19:14,560 --> 00:19:18,399 Speaker 3: Sometimes it gets suppressed because the guy that you actually 453 00:19:18,440 --> 00:19:20,360 Speaker 3: want to be your quarterback ends up working out. 454 00:19:20,520 --> 00:19:24,920 Speaker 4: So that's another one. I think about Carolina. 455 00:19:25,000 --> 00:19:28,320 Speaker 3: If you drafted Bryce Young first, you trade amounted for 456 00:19:28,440 --> 00:19:32,120 Speaker 3: him and you end up with you know, JJ McCarthy. 457 00:19:32,200 --> 00:19:34,400 Speaker 3: Let's say in round three, do you take him? I'd 458 00:19:34,440 --> 00:19:37,240 Speaker 3: say yes, right, because you just don't know. And the 459 00:19:37,280 --> 00:19:40,080 Speaker 3: same thing with Daniel Jones, Like I think you know 460 00:19:40,160 --> 00:19:42,600 Speaker 3: rounds two, you know, maybe not round two, but three, 461 00:19:42,640 --> 00:19:45,360 Speaker 3: four and five. I think you absolutely consider a quarterback 462 00:19:45,440 --> 00:19:48,640 Speaker 3: just because you just don't know. And the other part, 463 00:19:48,720 --> 00:19:51,600 Speaker 3: and this is big for these quarterbacks, especially the ones 464 00:19:51,640 --> 00:19:54,960 Speaker 3: that aren't eleaite. Injuries happen, And yeah, I think about 465 00:19:55,000 --> 00:19:57,600 Speaker 3: the Colts, right, it's fun that Gardner mins, you did 466 00:19:57,600 --> 00:19:59,400 Speaker 3: great this year, But wouldn't you rather have a guy 467 00:19:59,800 --> 00:20:02,320 Speaker 3: on rookie deal that you're trying to figure some things 468 00:20:02,359 --> 00:20:06,160 Speaker 3: out about play in the stead of Anthony Richardson. If 469 00:20:06,160 --> 00:20:08,200 Speaker 3: you were the Panthers last year, did you really want 470 00:20:08,240 --> 00:20:10,680 Speaker 3: Andy Dalton starting that game or did you want some 471 00:20:10,760 --> 00:20:13,800 Speaker 3: other guy? I think even for the teams like the Patriots, 472 00:20:13,840 --> 00:20:16,000 Speaker 3: like the Commanders. Now the Commanders have howled. But like 473 00:20:17,440 --> 00:20:19,760 Speaker 3: you know, the team that's picking first over all, the Bears, 474 00:20:20,720 --> 00:20:22,720 Speaker 3: they should keep fields. If they don't keep fields, they 475 00:20:22,720 --> 00:20:25,320 Speaker 3: should draft another guy later in the draft. Because young 476 00:20:25,400 --> 00:20:29,040 Speaker 3: quarterbacks get hurt, and we've seen with Jones, Jones has 477 00:20:29,040 --> 00:20:31,160 Speaker 3: gotten murted in the years that he hasn't played well 478 00:20:31,200 --> 00:20:35,000 Speaker 3: because the part of the position that the Brady's and 479 00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:37,520 Speaker 3: the Mahomes is the mannings master is not getting injured, 480 00:20:37,920 --> 00:20:40,800 Speaker 3: and the while of Daniel Jones is learning how to 481 00:20:40,880 --> 00:20:43,000 Speaker 3: read and how to you know, how to make sure 482 00:20:43,000 --> 00:20:44,400 Speaker 3: that he can throw the ball in the right place, 483 00:20:44,600 --> 00:20:47,000 Speaker 3: he's not protecting himself because he's using his brain on 484 00:20:47,040 --> 00:20:50,120 Speaker 3: other things. And I think for any team that's kind 485 00:20:50,119 --> 00:20:52,679 Speaker 3: of in limbo quarterback wise, they have to factor in 486 00:20:52,720 --> 00:20:55,600 Speaker 3: the injury part. I think everybody always thinks about the 487 00:20:55,600 --> 00:20:58,080 Speaker 3: ineffectiveness part, but the injury part is also a big deal. 488 00:20:58,200 --> 00:20:59,760 Speaker 3: And one of the reasons why you should head your 489 00:20:59,760 --> 00:21:01,520 Speaker 3: beat the young quarterback there as well. 490 00:21:03,280 --> 00:21:06,920 Speaker 2: Is evaluating quarterbacks and drafting quarterbacks and figuring out which 491 00:21:06,920 --> 00:21:08,280 Speaker 2: guys are going to be good and which guys are 492 00:21:08,280 --> 00:21:10,840 Speaker 2: going to be bad. Is that still maybe the hardest 493 00:21:10,840 --> 00:21:13,720 Speaker 2: thing NFL teams have to do when it comes to draft. 494 00:21:13,480 --> 00:21:15,040 Speaker 4: On I think so. 495 00:21:15,440 --> 00:21:17,520 Speaker 3: But I think Giants fans will appreciate this as well, 496 00:21:17,600 --> 00:21:21,919 Speaker 3: like I think the college to pro evaluation, to me, 497 00:21:22,359 --> 00:21:27,399 Speaker 3: isn't as hard as the first four year evaluation because 498 00:21:27,640 --> 00:21:30,359 Speaker 3: as you, as Giants fans know, if you get a 499 00:21:30,359 --> 00:21:32,840 Speaker 3: good coach, which I think table is, you get some 500 00:21:33,080 --> 00:21:35,879 Speaker 3: weapons like Barkley and you know Slayton and you know 501 00:21:35,960 --> 00:21:39,280 Speaker 3: those guys that around him last year, and you build, 502 00:21:39,359 --> 00:21:41,879 Speaker 3: you know, and you have an easy schedule because you know, 503 00:21:41,920 --> 00:21:44,399 Speaker 3: if you're picking the high eventually you're gonna have an 504 00:21:44,440 --> 00:21:46,680 Speaker 3: easy schedule because of the way it chicks out. It's 505 00:21:46,680 --> 00:21:49,240 Speaker 3: pretty It's not that hard to get nine to ten wins. 506 00:21:49,640 --> 00:21:53,199 Speaker 3: It's what it's to me, the hardest quarterback problem is 507 00:21:53,720 --> 00:21:57,800 Speaker 3: evaluating what those nine or ten wins mean. And that's 508 00:21:57,840 --> 00:22:00,440 Speaker 3: the hardest problem. The Rams fail that that with God, 509 00:22:00,600 --> 00:22:04,359 Speaker 3: the Eagles failed at that with Wentz. The first four 510 00:22:04,440 --> 00:22:08,040 Speaker 3: years are fine. Usually it's that it's that do I 511 00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:11,280 Speaker 3: pay the guy the forty million after because you know 512 00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:13,919 Speaker 3: that's the real commitment, And that wasn't And that's a 513 00:22:13,920 --> 00:22:17,320 Speaker 3: relatively new phenomenon. When the Rams drafted Bradford in twenty ten, 514 00:22:17,600 --> 00:22:20,040 Speaker 3: they had to give him fifty million guaranteed right away. 515 00:22:20,280 --> 00:22:22,880 Speaker 3: So it was the two problems and one and now 516 00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:25,800 Speaker 3: those two problems actually happened separately and that and that's 517 00:22:25,920 --> 00:22:27,800 Speaker 3: you know, I think the second one is actually harder 518 00:22:27,840 --> 00:22:28,600 Speaker 3: than the first one. 519 00:22:28,760 --> 00:22:31,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, say, hello, Chicago Bears with Justin Fields right, 520 00:22:31,520 --> 00:22:34,360 Speaker 2: Slo tamp Bay Buccaneers of Baker Mayfield where they had 521 00:22:34,359 --> 00:22:36,359 Speaker 2: good years, or rather the Bucks had a good year 522 00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:38,320 Speaker 2: and the Bears had some good play from Justin Fields 523 00:22:38,320 --> 00:22:40,959 Speaker 2: towards the end. And even the Cowboys with Dak Prescott right, 524 00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:42,399 Speaker 2: and they're in the division. So let me ask you 525 00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:44,359 Speaker 2: about that. I'm just curious, how do you think the 526 00:22:44,359 --> 00:22:47,520 Speaker 2: Cowboys should handle Prescott? Maybe eighth, ninth best quarterback in 527 00:22:47,560 --> 00:22:49,160 Speaker 2: the league. He's clearly good enough to win you double 528 00:22:49,200 --> 00:22:50,679 Speaker 2: digit wins fairly consistently. 529 00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:52,600 Speaker 1: They haven't had the big success there. 530 00:22:52,760 --> 00:22:55,480 Speaker 2: He's got a huge cap number, he has no trade clause, 531 00:22:55,480 --> 00:22:56,920 Speaker 2: which complicated MS even further. 532 00:22:57,400 --> 00:22:59,639 Speaker 1: Are they in a trap here where they pretty much 533 00:22:59,720 --> 00:23:01,639 Speaker 1: have extend him as they move forward? 534 00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:04,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, from a cap perspective, they do, right, Because he 535 00:23:04,560 --> 00:23:07,800 Speaker 3: has a sixty million dollar hits. You can kind of, 536 00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:09,600 Speaker 3: you know, spread that out a little bit and with 537 00:23:09,680 --> 00:23:11,960 Speaker 3: void years and everything. But if he's going to be 538 00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:16,320 Speaker 3: your quarterback, you're gonna you and you're gonna pay for 539 00:23:16,400 --> 00:23:18,280 Speaker 3: him anyway for the next five years in some way, 540 00:23:18,320 --> 00:23:20,640 Speaker 3: shape or form, you might as well. I think he's 541 00:23:20,720 --> 00:23:23,720 Speaker 3: certainly passed the threshold of being willing of being above 542 00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:26,560 Speaker 3: the pay threshold. Right he's good enough to make the 543 00:23:26,600 --> 00:23:28,600 Speaker 3: fifty million a year, the fifty five million a year. 544 00:23:28,840 --> 00:23:30,679 Speaker 3: So they probably have to address it this year to 545 00:23:30,680 --> 00:23:33,080 Speaker 3: get that cap number down so that they can address 546 00:23:33,280 --> 00:23:36,240 Speaker 3: you know, defensive back. They can address some things in 547 00:23:36,280 --> 00:23:38,200 Speaker 3: the offensive line. They can worry about whid the receiver 548 00:23:38,280 --> 00:23:40,320 Speaker 3: depth that for CD Lamb, which is a problem. They 549 00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:43,400 Speaker 3: can worry about running back depth after you know Pollard. 550 00:23:43,760 --> 00:23:46,239 Speaker 3: I think that that's they have to do that. If 551 00:23:46,240 --> 00:23:49,520 Speaker 3: they're not going to, they should consider trading him because 552 00:23:49,600 --> 00:23:51,040 Speaker 3: if they're if they're just going to kind of kick 553 00:23:51,080 --> 00:23:53,520 Speaker 3: the can down the road, that's still gonna involve paying 554 00:23:53,560 --> 00:23:55,600 Speaker 3: Prescott for the next five years in some way shape 555 00:23:55,680 --> 00:23:55,960 Speaker 3: or form. 556 00:23:56,000 --> 00:23:58,520 Speaker 4: Through void years and pro rating bonuses. 557 00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:01,160 Speaker 3: You're ready for a change, which pay day comes early 558 00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:01,919 Speaker 3: with citizens. 559 00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:04,879 Speaker 1: So go to that retreat, knew you move to the 560 00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:08,840 Speaker 1: country now you're raising goats and launching a lifestyle brand. 561 00:24:09,280 --> 00:24:14,680 Speaker 1: Are you ready for all that life brings? Giant fans 562 00:24:14,760 --> 00:24:15,160 Speaker 1: love a winner. 563 00:24:15,160 --> 00:24:17,159 Speaker 2: It's why they love Citizens named the twenty twenty two 564 00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:19,199 Speaker 2: best bank in the US by the Banker as the 565 00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:21,280 Speaker 2: official bank of the Giants and sponsor of the Huddle, 566 00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:23,440 Speaker 2: Citizens is made ready for fans of Big Blue. Learn 567 00:24:23,480 --> 00:24:25,840 Speaker 2: more at Citizens bank dot com. A couple more here 568 00:24:25,840 --> 00:24:29,440 Speaker 2: for Eric eagor over at Schumer Sports. Eric running Back. 569 00:24:29,520 --> 00:24:31,439 Speaker 2: The Giants will have to make another decision on Saquon 570 00:24:31,480 --> 00:24:34,080 Speaker 2: Barkley this offseason. You have the franchise tag available to him. 571 00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:36,360 Speaker 2: You'd also do kind of like a short term long 572 00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:39,560 Speaker 2: term deal two to three years. If you want your 573 00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:42,640 Speaker 2: thoughts on how they should try to figure out Saquon 574 00:24:42,680 --> 00:24:43,720 Speaker 2: Barkley this offseason. 575 00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:46,840 Speaker 4: Yeah, I think. 576 00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:49,119 Speaker 3: I mean, I think all the teams that held the 577 00:24:49,119 --> 00:24:52,240 Speaker 3: water on running backs, the Raiders, the Cowboys, the Giants 578 00:24:52,280 --> 00:24:54,520 Speaker 3: were all proven right. None of those players played up 579 00:24:54,720 --> 00:24:58,880 Speaker 3: to their their platform year. And so you know, as 580 00:24:58,920 --> 00:25:00,679 Speaker 3: good as sak one is thin what you know, he 581 00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:02,560 Speaker 3: means a ton of this team. I think you try 582 00:25:02,600 --> 00:25:04,680 Speaker 3: to get something done. I don't think paying a running 583 00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:08,040 Speaker 3: back ten to twelve million dollars is agregious. I think 584 00:25:08,040 --> 00:25:10,800 Speaker 3: you have to have a real conversation about what it 585 00:25:10,880 --> 00:25:12,760 Speaker 3: means for him to be the starting running back on 586 00:25:12,800 --> 00:25:15,560 Speaker 3: that team. Does it mean all the carries, all the catches. 587 00:25:16,359 --> 00:25:19,919 Speaker 3: I don't think you could do that anymore. But I 588 00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:22,520 Speaker 3: think given what he means to the team from a 589 00:25:22,560 --> 00:25:25,480 Speaker 3: locker room standpoint, everything, they have to evaluate that because 590 00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:27,480 Speaker 3: you know, if he's going to come back and say, 591 00:25:27,480 --> 00:25:29,240 Speaker 3: I still want to have and I don't think he 592 00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:32,199 Speaker 3: actually has. I don't know what he's actually asked for, 593 00:25:32,240 --> 00:25:34,160 Speaker 3: but if he's going to ask for McCaffrey money, he's 594 00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:37,040 Speaker 3: going to ask for Camara money, that's probably a non starter. 595 00:25:37,119 --> 00:25:40,760 Speaker 3: But if he asks for Nick Chubb money, Aaron Jones 596 00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:43,600 Speaker 3: type of money, and the Giants have a real plan 597 00:25:43,640 --> 00:25:47,400 Speaker 3: on how to preserve his help, I think it's feasible 598 00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:50,240 Speaker 3: to work with him there. To me, it's just really 599 00:25:50,280 --> 00:25:52,480 Speaker 3: hard because when you pay a running back like that, 600 00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:57,040 Speaker 3: what it represents is this guy is our number one guy, 601 00:25:57,560 --> 00:25:59,479 Speaker 3: and you end up giving him so many carries that 602 00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:02,800 Speaker 3: it's it detailirious to kind of, you know, his health 603 00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:04,440 Speaker 3: and the kind of things that you want to preserve 604 00:26:04,560 --> 00:26:05,960 Speaker 3: in order to make that contract worth it. 605 00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:08,440 Speaker 4: So it's kind of a catch twenty two to your point. 606 00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:10,119 Speaker 2: Yeah, it really is. All right, let's jump to defense 607 00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:13,320 Speaker 2: real quick. The Giants have not named the defensive coordinator 608 00:26:13,359 --> 00:26:15,040 Speaker 2: as of this recording. By the time it airs, maybe 609 00:26:15,040 --> 00:26:17,120 Speaker 2: they will have, but odds are they're going to hire 610 00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:19,280 Speaker 2: someone that blitz is less than Wink Martindale because pretty 611 00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:22,960 Speaker 2: much everybody blitz is less than Wink Martindale. So it'll 612 00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:25,640 Speaker 2: be a less volatile defense from week to week with blitzeing. 613 00:26:25,680 --> 00:26:28,639 Speaker 2: What does your guys, you know, say when you evaluate 614 00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:32,080 Speaker 2: building a defense about blitz rate, trying to create some 615 00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:35,000 Speaker 2: chaos and how you should kind of manage that give 616 00:26:35,080 --> 00:26:37,160 Speaker 2: or take when you're putting together that defensive scheme. 617 00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:42,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think the NFL right now prizes, you know, 618 00:26:44,040 --> 00:26:46,160 Speaker 3: a decent ratio of being able to give up first 619 00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:47,520 Speaker 3: downs to not give up touchdowns. 620 00:26:47,560 --> 00:26:47,720 Speaker 4: You know. 621 00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:50,400 Speaker 3: The Chiefs right now are middle of the pack, their 622 00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:52,760 Speaker 3: second best in the league in scoring defense. They're middle 623 00:26:52,800 --> 00:26:55,160 Speaker 3: of the pack and like series success, so they give 624 00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:57,600 Speaker 3: up first downs pretty frequently, but they don't give up scores, 625 00:26:58,320 --> 00:27:00,720 Speaker 3: you know. But they're fairly agressive. They play man defense, 626 00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:03,560 Speaker 3: but against the run. They're not all that surdy. They 627 00:27:03,600 --> 00:27:05,680 Speaker 3: went out Okira k was a big pick up. He 628 00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:08,720 Speaker 3: had a great season a year ago. You know they're 629 00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:10,919 Speaker 3: they They got rid of Leonard Williams through a trade. 630 00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:13,560 Speaker 3: Dexter Lawrence is a big money guy for them. They 631 00:27:13,600 --> 00:27:15,840 Speaker 3: really need Keveon Thibodeau to be a guy. I think 632 00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:19,280 Speaker 3: blitzing oftentimes is kind of a cover up for deficiency 633 00:27:19,359 --> 00:27:22,200 Speaker 3: that you believe your roster has. So does that mean 634 00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:24,159 Speaker 3: that they go out and try to get another player 635 00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:28,159 Speaker 3: to pair with with Thibodeau and Ojilari something like that 636 00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:30,840 Speaker 3: they can give them pass rush without having to blitz. 637 00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:33,399 Speaker 4: H Do they go out and get cornerbacks to you know, 638 00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:35,080 Speaker 4: to go with Banks. 639 00:27:34,800 --> 00:27:37,320 Speaker 3: And guys like that, because you know they need to 640 00:27:37,320 --> 00:27:39,920 Speaker 3: be able to cover better on the back side. Blitzing, 641 00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:43,159 Speaker 3: to me is a risky proposition in the NFL because 642 00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:45,680 Speaker 3: there are so few possessions now in games, and if 643 00:27:45,680 --> 00:27:50,040 Speaker 3: you give up big plays, the modern offense really is 644 00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:52,879 Speaker 3: is less powerful to come back and score on an 645 00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:56,200 Speaker 3: opposing opposing offense, So it's it's really playing with Byron. 646 00:27:56,359 --> 00:27:58,200 Speaker 3: One of the reasons why I think the Giants struggled 647 00:27:58,200 --> 00:28:00,480 Speaker 3: at times last year when they got the games with 648 00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:03,520 Speaker 3: high powered offenses like the Eagles, although they played the 649 00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:06,280 Speaker 3: Eagles pretty well, but like the Cowboys, where if those 650 00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:08,560 Speaker 3: big plays happened against them, their offense wasn't able to 651 00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:11,760 Speaker 3: sort of turn around and answer, because most offenses aren't 652 00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:13,840 Speaker 3: able to turn around and answer big play for big play. 653 00:28:14,119 --> 00:28:16,080 Speaker 2: You mentioned the Cowboys, and this will be a good 654 00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:18,600 Speaker 2: final stuff for Tap before we say goodbye. All I 655 00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:20,600 Speaker 2: remember in these Cowboys games and then putting Ceedee Lamb 656 00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:22,080 Speaker 2: in the slot and he's just opened all over the 657 00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:25,119 Speaker 2: football field. And you mentioned slock corner is a position 658 00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:27,720 Speaker 2: you can find now in free agency. But do you 659 00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:30,240 Speaker 2: feel like that kind of slot position, which is also 660 00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:32,119 Speaker 2: not kind of a star position, right you have Brian 661 00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:33,919 Speaker 2: Branch there. They need to stop the run, they need 662 00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:35,639 Speaker 2: to be able to cover, do a bunch of different things. 663 00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:38,360 Speaker 1: Is that position becoming. 664 00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:40,200 Speaker 2: More and more valuable in your eyes in the NFL, 665 00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:42,960 Speaker 2: given how the best offenses like to attack the middle 666 00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:45,320 Speaker 2: of the field and frankly put their best receivers in 667 00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:47,240 Speaker 2: those slot positions, so they have a two way go. 668 00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:51,440 Speaker 3: Yeah, and it's where the best defenses, you know a 669 00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:53,920 Speaker 3: lot of times have great players and It's also where 670 00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:59,080 Speaker 3: the worst defenses fail, right, So like Sandy you know 671 00:28:59,160 --> 00:29:02,040 Speaker 3: Los Angeles charged. When Derwy James he gets injured, that 672 00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:04,320 Speaker 3: defense score he doesn't play propt feel well because he's 673 00:29:04,320 --> 00:29:06,520 Speaker 3: playing hurts. It goes to put because he's got to 674 00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:09,080 Speaker 3: do so many things. The Chiefs are so good there 675 00:29:09,120 --> 00:29:12,000 Speaker 3: with speed that he covers up the blitzes so well. 676 00:29:12,040 --> 00:29:14,080 Speaker 3: He covers you know, number one receivers who can play 677 00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:16,560 Speaker 3: inside and outside. The issue is is because of the 678 00:29:16,600 --> 00:29:18,880 Speaker 3: way college football is, it's so hard to find those players. 679 00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:20,120 Speaker 4: It's almost always a projection. 680 00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:24,000 Speaker 3: It's like Alabama might have that player in Minka Fitzpatrick, 681 00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:27,760 Speaker 3: even he played safety in the NFL after playing slot 682 00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:30,480 Speaker 3: in college. There's not that many players where you can 683 00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:32,640 Speaker 3: go in and evaluate them how they're going to play 684 00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:36,240 Speaker 3: that way and at a premium position. Like Mike Hilton 685 00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:39,560 Speaker 3: is one random example where he played that position in college. 686 00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:41,520 Speaker 3: Was draft in the fifth round, who was actually pretty 687 00:29:41,520 --> 00:29:42,880 Speaker 3: good in the NFL at that position. 688 00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:44,280 Speaker 4: But for the most part. 689 00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:46,760 Speaker 3: It's it's a position where you don't see a lot 690 00:29:46,760 --> 00:29:49,640 Speaker 3: of guys, you know Brian Branch playing at Alabama with 691 00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:52,440 Speaker 3: other great players having to play that kind of secondary role. 692 00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:56,080 Speaker 3: That's a very rare exception, but for the most part, 693 00:29:56,120 --> 00:29:58,360 Speaker 3: it's really hard to find those players because of that. 694 00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:01,040 Speaker 3: You know, these college programs play their players at the 695 00:30:01,040 --> 00:30:04,600 Speaker 3: premium positions like outside corner and wide receiver, and so 696 00:30:05,520 --> 00:30:07,480 Speaker 3: that's where you know, you truly need to trust your 697 00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:09,680 Speaker 3: scouting staff and analytics to be able to, you know, 698 00:30:09,680 --> 00:30:12,920 Speaker 3: sort of build that position because it's not a straightforward build. 699 00:30:13,280 --> 00:30:15,120 Speaker 2: The same thing for middle linebacker too, right, I mean, 700 00:30:15,160 --> 00:30:18,360 Speaker 2: collegists aren't producing these players anymore, and I feel like 701 00:30:18,760 --> 00:30:21,400 Speaker 2: it's just really difficult, even though the salary structure is 702 00:30:21,440 --> 00:30:23,680 Speaker 2: not big for that group. Middle linebackers just a really 703 00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:24,960 Speaker 2: tough spot to fill now in the league. 704 00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:27,840 Speaker 3: No tight end is the same way, right, you know Iowa, 705 00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:30,440 Speaker 3: That's why Iowa produces tight ends, but they have terrible offenses. 706 00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:34,600 Speaker 3: It's not a position that you know, really translates from 707 00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:35,120 Speaker 3: one to the other. 708 00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:38,360 Speaker 2: No, with your final question, just basically, trade up, trade 709 00:30:38,400 --> 00:30:40,920 Speaker 2: down if a quarterback's not involved, are you still in 710 00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:43,200 Speaker 2: the always trade down, never trade up camp? 711 00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:47,280 Speaker 3: Yeah, you're just never getting a good benefit. I mean, 712 00:30:47,320 --> 00:30:50,160 Speaker 3: I know there's exceptions. Trent McDuffie was a trade up 713 00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:53,400 Speaker 3: and stuff like that. But you're just especially if you're 714 00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:55,680 Speaker 3: a team like the Giants which needs talent, needs that. 715 00:30:56,160 --> 00:30:59,440 Speaker 3: Trading down is almost always a positive and it's easier 716 00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:01,160 Speaker 3: said than done. You need a market for it, but 717 00:31:01,840 --> 00:31:03,640 Speaker 3: it's almost always better to trade down. 718 00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:05,400 Speaker 2: Even if you think there's a blue chip guy there 719 00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:07,400 Speaker 2: at six or would that make you hesitate a little bit? 720 00:31:07,840 --> 00:31:10,480 Speaker 4: Well, I think staying pat and taking your players fine. 721 00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:13,280 Speaker 3: It's more it's more the don't trade, you know, try 722 00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:15,800 Speaker 3: not to trade up type of thing, more so than 723 00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:19,240 Speaker 3: it's a oh wait, you know you can stay and 724 00:31:19,240 --> 00:31:21,160 Speaker 3: take your player. I just I think trading up is 725 00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:24,400 Speaker 3: oftentimes it's more expensive than the charts. Believe almost every 726 00:31:24,440 --> 00:31:26,840 Speaker 3: time in practice, and you almost never get the value 727 00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:27,080 Speaker 3: for it. 728 00:31:27,320 --> 00:31:29,240 Speaker 2: Tell the folks about your podcast, Eric, if they want 729 00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:29,920 Speaker 2: to check it out. 730 00:31:30,120 --> 00:31:32,760 Speaker 3: Yep, so myself and Thomas to Mitchell, who's the CEO 731 00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:34,920 Speaker 3: at SUMER Sports the general manager of the Falcons in 732 00:31:34,920 --> 00:31:36,680 Speaker 3: two thousand and eight twenty twenty. 733 00:31:37,040 --> 00:31:40,680 Speaker 4: We record every Monday and Wednesday. Thomas brings great insight 734 00:31:40,760 --> 00:31:40,960 Speaker 4: to it. 735 00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:44,040 Speaker 3: We like to riff about, you know, analytics and the 736 00:31:44,120 --> 00:31:46,800 Speaker 3: NFL get it wherever you get your podcasts. And then 737 00:31:47,040 --> 00:31:49,760 Speaker 3: one thing if you're If anybody listening to this is 738 00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:53,920 Speaker 3: interested in the Super Bowl on Sunday, we put together 739 00:31:54,040 --> 00:31:57,760 Speaker 3: a forty one page Big Game breakdown on suomer sports 740 00:31:57,760 --> 00:32:00,520 Speaker 3: dot com so you know, fill the stats and prop 741 00:32:00,600 --> 00:32:01,800 Speaker 3: bets and all that good stuff. 742 00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:03,160 Speaker 4: So if anybody's interested in. 743 00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:05,479 Speaker 3: That, go to supersports dot com and check out our 744 00:32:05,480 --> 00:32:06,880 Speaker 3: free Big Day breakdown. 745 00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:10,800 Speaker 2: Eric, great conversation. We appreciate the time. Enjoy Vegas. You're early, 746 00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:13,840 Speaker 2: you still look conscious and awake. Vegas hasn't gotten to 747 00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:15,560 Speaker 2: you yet your week. 748 00:32:15,560 --> 00:32:18,400 Speaker 1: Thanks a lot for the time. We appreciate it. Thanks John, Eric, 749 00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:20,320 Speaker 1: he you're on the Johnsontle podcast. We'll see you next time.