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Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to the best of Coast to Coast podcast.

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Speaker 1: fascinating conversation and check out recent shows where we learned

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Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast AM on

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Speaker 1: iHeart Radio and welcome back to Coast to Coast George

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Speaker 1: Nori with you, We're gonna have some fun for the

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Speaker 1: next couple hours. Tristan Donovan is a British nonfiction author

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Speaker 1: journalist whose work has appeared and wired the BBC, The Atlantic,

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Speaker 1: Vice and The Guardian, amongst so many others. Tristan was

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Speaker 1: born in ninety five, grew up in London and now

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Speaker 1: lives in Lewis, near Brighton, a city south coast of

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Speaker 1: England in England. His books include Replay, The History of

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Speaker 1: Video Games, Fizz, How Soda Shook Up the World and

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Speaker 1: Feral Cities, Adventures with Animals, and Urban Jungle and now

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Speaker 1: this one. It's all a game. The history of board games,

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Speaker 1: from Monopoly to Settlers of Katan and Kristen Kristen. It's

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Speaker 1: it's an amazing story here. We've all played board games

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Speaker 1: when we were younger, but what happened, well, we still

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Speaker 1: play them. So this is one of the things that

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Speaker 1: got me interested in writing the book. So, you know,

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Speaker 1: like most people I grew up in my family would

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Speaker 1: play board games, you know, every Sunday, you know, the

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Speaker 1: classics like Monopoly, clude Oh Life, and you know, so

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Speaker 1: there was always sort of playing games, and I did

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Speaker 1: continue playing them as that old sort of finding more

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Speaker 1: complex ones. But what what got me interested in because

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Speaker 1: the board games are still going and it maybe someone

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Speaker 1: you know why. You know, we've we've had some rise

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Speaker 1: of video games, and in some ways they look a

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Speaker 1: bit old fashioned and out of day, so you know

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Speaker 1: why people still playing them. That's sort of me interested

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Speaker 1: in writing about them. And people are playing them. I

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Speaker 1: used to have baseball cards and I think my mom

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Speaker 1: threw them out and god knows what they would be

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Speaker 1: worth today. So about three years ago I bought as

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Speaker 1: many board games as I could find Risk Life, Monopoly,

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Speaker 1: they're unopened. I just stored them away because one day

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Speaker 1: I'm saying, maybe in twenty five years from now, they'll

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Speaker 1: be worth something. But it was amazing how much fun

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Speaker 1: we had as kids playing these games. They occupied hours

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Speaker 1: and hours of our time. Yeah. Absolutely, I mean I'm

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Speaker 1: especially Monopoly. My dad was always very much you know,

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Speaker 1: we're going to play this right true to the end,

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Speaker 1: and say, you know, you get to that stage Monopoly

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Speaker 1: where you know you're going to go bust, you bankrupt

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Speaker 1: you for another two hours, You're like that, please let

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Speaker 1: me just give up by surrender. It's like, no, it's

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Speaker 1: not over, into us over. I tried to buy as

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Speaker 1: many hotels and properties I could find, every time I

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Speaker 1: landed on something I wanted to buy, until I ran

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Speaker 1: out of money exactly. But what about today, I mean

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Speaker 1: most kids, most kids have grown up in the video

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Speaker 1: game era. They don't even know what board games are anymore. Tristan, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they do, not all of them. Well, it's been like saying,

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Speaker 1: you know, TV came along and now kids don't know

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Speaker 1: what radio is. Well that that's partially true too. How

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Speaker 1: do they may not listen that they know what it is,

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Speaker 1: but ball games won't come back, And I guess there's

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Speaker 1: some I mean, what's been happening over the past twenty

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Speaker 1: years is there's been, particularly among young adults, there's been

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Speaker 1: a real interest in sort of a new wave of

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Speaker 1: games that have come through. Games like Settlers of Time

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Speaker 1: to Hit the Ride and those have got people back

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Speaker 1: into ball games. And so what you've seen, you know,

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Speaker 1: pretty much every city in the US now has at

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Speaker 1: least one board game cafe, and you know, they held

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Speaker 1: coffee and food, but there's also places where people can

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Speaker 1: go and rent a ball game by the hour to

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Speaker 1: play them with their friends. And you know, this the

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Speaker 1: younger generation that is doing this. You know, I'm in

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Speaker 1: my forties, you know this is you know, I'm I'll

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Speaker 1: be relatively old going to these places. So you know,

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Speaker 1: at this point, you know that, so it's coming back

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Speaker 1: that way with these sort of new games. And at

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Speaker 1: the same time, you know, sort of companies like Hasbro's

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Speaker 1: which so all the kind of traditional games, they've seen

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Speaker 1: their sales increased as well. And I think what's happening

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Speaker 1: to an extent, it's always really hard to kind of

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Speaker 1: pin down exactly why this interest is there. But I

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Speaker 1: think in some ways it's a pushback against everything getting digital,

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Speaker 1: your whole life going online and what ball games does

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Speaker 1: the bring us together in the same room, give us

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Speaker 1: a focus and we're not there kind of chatting, but

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Speaker 1: you know someone's looking on their phone briefly, and you know,

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Speaker 1: it's a way for people to reconnect face to face.

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Speaker 1: It gives that kind of framework, and I think that's

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Speaker 1: what's drawing people to that. And you know, people aren't

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Speaker 1: kind of going, well, I want to disconnect from the

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Speaker 1: Internet and throw away my iPhone or whatever. But I think,

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Speaker 1: you know, in some ways, it's a way of people

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Speaker 1: kind of game, well, my life's not entirely virtual, and

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Speaker 1: here's one way I can do that. My little ten

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Speaker 1: year old grandson is a little app kid when it

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Speaker 1: comes to games, and you know, every time he comes over,

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Speaker 1: he goes, Papa, Papa, download this for me. And I

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Speaker 1: mean that's that's that era that the really younger kids

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Speaker 1: are in the video games and apps and things like that. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And you know, you pull out a board game, they're

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Speaker 1: interested in it for a while and then they go back.

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Speaker 1: But what is it going to take Tristan to capture

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Speaker 1: the attention of younger kids, to get them to play

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Speaker 1: more board games. I think in a way it's better games.

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Speaker 1: And so video game industry has got a lot of

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Speaker 1: money and spends a lot of time working out how

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Speaker 1: to from one of the better words, hook hook people

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Speaker 1: and what they're playing, um and so some of the

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Speaker 1: older board games like Monopoly aren't really kind of competing

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Speaker 1: with that in the same way anymore. You know, one

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Speaker 1: of the problems with Monopoly is people get chucked out

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Speaker 1: of the game while they play it. So you know,

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Speaker 1: you play for a while and then someone loses all

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Speaker 1: their money and outside, well, what are you going to do?

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Speaker 1: Go off through the dishes or something. You know, you

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Speaker 1: don't need it anymore. Um So new games attending to

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Speaker 1: avoid that. They're not making it clear who's winning all

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Speaker 1: the way through, so you know, there's that kind of

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Speaker 1: mystery intention. So I think these newer games are kind

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Speaker 1: of helping kind of compete more better through better game design.

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Speaker 1: And there's also sort of cooperative games, which is something

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Speaker 1: video games don't offer very much. You know, they tend

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Speaker 1: to be more competitive. So you have boll GameLine pandemic,

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Speaker 1: which is this relatively new game about fighting disease around

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Speaker 1: the world, and basically it's the players versus the game.

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Speaker 1: You know, everyone's on the same side trying to defeat

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Speaker 1: the random cards that are coming up. So I think

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Speaker 1: those sort of offers a side a different experience. I

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Speaker 1: think you know, probably today if you're going to get

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Speaker 1: our Cluedo and hay kids, put down your your app

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Speaker 1: and play a game with Cludo and it's okay, it's

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Speaker 1: not the same as this app I've just downloaded. I

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Speaker 1: loved Clue and I also loved the game you remember Strtigo. Oh,

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Speaker 1: I loved that was that was that was a game

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Speaker 1: you could just even play against yourself because if you

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Speaker 1: moved all the other pieces to the other side and

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Speaker 1: they're they're turned around. Just so people get an idea,

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Speaker 1: Strtigo is a little battle game and each each little

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Speaker 1: block that you have has a picture of a little

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Speaker 1: soldier on it that the tone it can't see, you know,

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Speaker 1: it's facing the other way you can see if they can't.

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Speaker 1: And it's got a numbered system, so like the general

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Speaker 1: was number one and the colonel was number two, the

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Speaker 1: major was three, and da da da dada, and uh.

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Speaker 1: The The idea of the game was to capture the

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Speaker 1: flag on the other side, and you could put little

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Speaker 1: bombs around it, and only the minor number eight if

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Speaker 1: I remember, could knock down one of those bombs to

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Speaker 1: get to the flag. But whoever captured the flag first

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Speaker 1: would win. But you could literally play that game by

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Speaker 1: yourself because you just set them up on the other

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Speaker 1: way and uh, you know, you would move the pieces

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Speaker 1: back towards you. You didn't know what you were moving.

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Speaker 1: But it was a great game. I love that one. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's been like sort of battle ship ships met in

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Speaker 1: a way. Yeah, what was the game where? And maybe

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Speaker 1: it was called operation I'm not sure where The lights

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Speaker 1: went on when you did a little operation into a

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Speaker 1: car too own body and if you took out little

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Speaker 1: body parts if you hit it the wrong way. Um

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Speaker 1: was that called the operation? Do you remember that one? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: That's opressures that you had little tweezers and you get

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Speaker 1: out you know, sort of the wishbone and things like that,

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Speaker 1: and if you touch the size and nose would light

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Speaker 1: up on that. It was good for your dexterity at

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Speaker 1: a young age. Yeah, exactly. It's probably quite hard for

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Speaker 1: me now. In those days were board games in just

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Speaker 1: about every family around the country, around the planet pretty much.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I mean it varies a lot from country

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Speaker 1: to country, but certainly, you know, in America and English

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Speaker 1: speaking things are pretty embedded in in life, you know.

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Speaker 1: And you've got to remember, if you're getting back to

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Speaker 1: fift these sixties seventies, you know, there was a limited

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Speaker 1: choice on TV um, you know. I mean, I don't

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Speaker 1: know what it was like in the U s having

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Speaker 1: not growing up there, but you know, in the UK

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Speaker 1: we had free channels when I was growing up, and

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Speaker 1: they were turned off by midnight, you know. So it's

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Speaker 1: there wasn't much competition in terms of entertainment as is now.

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Speaker 1: We didn't have kind of video casset recorders or Netflix

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Speaker 1: or anything like that. It was like, well, what are

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Speaker 1: we going to do? We can watch what, you know,

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Speaker 1: our choice of two shows on TV, or we can

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Speaker 1: play a game, and so, you know, it was quite

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Speaker 1: very popular. Then what's the name of the game that

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Speaker 1: was always on the inside the other side of a

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Speaker 1: checkerboard where you play with dice. That's it. I never

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Speaker 1: played that game. I just was never interested in that.

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Speaker 1: But that's huge. A lot of people play that yeah,

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Speaker 1: that was one of the things I discovered while writing.

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Speaker 1: It's all the game, so you know, like like most

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Speaker 1: people was like, yeah, there's that kind of weird triangle

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Speaker 1: thing on the back of the chessboard. I don't really

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Speaker 1: know what that's about. So doing the book, I actually

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Speaker 1: finally sat down and then to play back. And it's

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Speaker 1: a brilliant game. It is a brilliant game. I've seen

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Speaker 1: people play it. I never did. Yeah, it's just real

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Speaker 1: kind of nice balance between skill and luck, and you know,

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Speaker 1: it's much better game than say Checkers, um. But you know,

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Speaker 1: it's sort of got this kind of image problem really

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Speaker 1: where it got kind of associated with kind of you know,

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Speaker 1: very kind of well to do people who didn't really

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Speaker 1: kind of you know, it was an odd games are

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Speaker 1: played and sort of never recatched on. But it had

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Speaker 1: this kind of big boom in the seventies where all

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Speaker 1: these sort of playboy types caught into it. It started

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Speaker 1: gambling insane amounts of money on it. I spoke to

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Speaker 1: someone for the book who was one of these gamblets,

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Speaker 1: and he told me about a game where, you know,

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Speaker 1: the stake was sixty four dollars and this is in

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Speaker 1: the seven that's like a quarter of a million dollars

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Speaker 1: now on one game, and he wasn't playing the biggest bets.

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Speaker 1: You know, it was kind of crazy for during the seventies.

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Speaker 1: But it's again the sort of a struggle to kind

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Speaker 1: of keep up with size. People keep forgetting about it

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Speaker 1: or kind of it looks a bit weird. Ton't have squares.

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Speaker 1: You know what these triangles about favorite favorite favorite phrase

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Speaker 1: in checkers king me, what does that mean? I don't

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Speaker 1: think I've heard that before. How did board games even start? Well,

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Speaker 1: we don't really know, it's the answer because one of

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Speaker 1: the problems with board games as they started before we

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Speaker 1: had writing. So if we go back, the earliest game

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Speaker 1: we definitely now existed was this ancient Egypt ancient Egyptian

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Speaker 1: game called Senate, and there's some fragments of the board

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Speaker 1: that seems to pre date ancient Egypt. I mean this

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Speaker 1: goes back to three thousand BC, thousands of years ago. Um,

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Speaker 1: so we know board games were being played then, we

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Speaker 1: don't know what the rules were, so you know, no

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Speaker 1: one wrote them down. You know, they were only just

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Speaker 1: inventing writing. So has been with us that, you know,

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Speaker 1: as long as humanity can remember at this point listen

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Speaker 1: to more Coast to Coast a M. Every week night

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Speaker 1: at one a m. Eastern, and go to Coast to

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Speaker 1: Coast a m dot com for more