1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,560 Speaker 1: Hi, This is newt Twenty twenty is going to be 2 00:00:02,600 --> 00:00:05,080 Speaker 1: one of the most extraordinary election years of our lifetime. 3 00:00:05,720 --> 00:00:08,080 Speaker 1: I want to invite you to join my Inner Circle 4 00:00:08,520 --> 00:00:11,520 Speaker 1: as we discuss each twist and turn in the presidential race. 5 00:00:11,880 --> 00:00:16,120 Speaker 1: In my members only Inner Circle Club, you'll receive special 6 00:00:16,160 --> 00:00:21,040 Speaker 1: flash briefings, online events, and members only audio reports from 7 00:00:21,079 --> 00:00:23,680 Speaker 1: me and my team. Here is a special offer for 8 00:00:23,760 --> 00:00:28,080 Speaker 1: my podcast listeners. Join my Inner Circle today at Newtcentercircle 9 00:00:28,120 --> 00:00:31,200 Speaker 1: dot com, slash podcast, and if you sign up for 10 00:00:31,240 --> 00:00:34,040 Speaker 1: a one or two year membership, you'll get ten percent 11 00:00:34,080 --> 00:00:37,800 Speaker 1: off your membership price and a VIP fast pass to 12 00:00:37,920 --> 00:00:42,280 Speaker 1: my live events. Join My Inner Circle today at Newtcenter 13 00:00:42,320 --> 00:00:47,120 Speaker 1: Circle dot com slash podcast use the Code podcast at checkout. 14 00:00:47,720 --> 00:00:51,840 Speaker 1: Sign up today at Newtcenter Circle dot com slash podcast 15 00:00:51,880 --> 00:01:04,760 Speaker 1: and use the Code podcast Hurry this Offtway Spires February fourteenth. 16 00:01:04,800 --> 00:01:07,840 Speaker 1: On this episode of newts World, it is a seemingly 17 00:01:07,920 --> 00:01:12,360 Speaker 1: undeniable truth that aging is inevitable. But what if everything 18 00:01:12,360 --> 00:01:15,440 Speaker 1: we've been taught to believe about aging is wrong? What 19 00:01:15,560 --> 00:01:19,160 Speaker 1: if we could choose how long we live? Incredible new 20 00:01:19,200 --> 00:01:22,720 Speaker 1: breakthroughs in research reveal that we can slow down or 21 00:01:22,760 --> 00:01:26,640 Speaker 1: even reverse aging. As one of my guests, Doctor David 22 00:01:26,680 --> 00:01:31,200 Speaker 1: Sinclair describes it, Aging is a disease, and the disease 23 00:01:31,360 --> 00:01:35,600 Speaker 1: is treatable. The key is activating newly discovered vitality genes. 24 00:01:36,440 --> 00:01:40,520 Speaker 1: Recent experiments in genetic reprogramming suggests in the near future 25 00:01:41,040 --> 00:01:43,319 Speaker 1: we may not just be able to feel younger, but 26 00:01:43,480 --> 00:01:47,880 Speaker 1: actually become younger. I'm pleased to introduce my guests. Doctor 27 00:01:47,960 --> 00:01:51,320 Speaker 1: David Sinclair is a professor in the Department of Genetics 28 00:01:51,600 --> 00:01:53,840 Speaker 1: and co director of the Paul left Glenn Center for 29 00:01:53,880 --> 00:01:57,160 Speaker 1: the Biology of Aging at Harvard Medical School. He is 30 00:01:57,200 --> 00:02:00,280 Speaker 1: the author of life Span, Why We Age and Why 31 00:02:00,320 --> 00:02:05,080 Speaker 1: We Don't Have To? And doctor Near Bartilai, director of 32 00:02:05,080 --> 00:02:08,080 Speaker 1: the Ursuite for Aging Research at the Albert Einstein College 33 00:02:08,080 --> 00:02:10,760 Speaker 1: of Medicine and the director of the Paul left Glenn 34 00:02:10,840 --> 00:02:13,840 Speaker 1: Center for the Biology of Human Aging Research and of 35 00:02:13,880 --> 00:02:16,400 Speaker 1: the National Institutes of Health. He is author of the 36 00:02:16,480 --> 00:02:22,560 Speaker 1: upcoming book Age Later, Secrets of the Healthiest Sharpest Centenarians. 37 00:02:32,000 --> 00:02:35,360 Speaker 1: Doctor David Sinclair is the author of Lifespan, Why We 38 00:02:35,440 --> 00:02:38,160 Speaker 1: Age and Why We Don't Have To? How did you 39 00:02:38,200 --> 00:02:42,079 Speaker 1: get involved in looking at the process of aging? As 40 00:02:42,080 --> 00:02:44,880 Speaker 1: I was a teenager, I realized that the world was aging, 41 00:02:45,480 --> 00:02:48,480 Speaker 1: that this would be something in the twenty fifth century 42 00:02:48,560 --> 00:02:52,160 Speaker 1: we would need to tackle, and that the new sciences 43 00:02:52,160 --> 00:02:55,200 Speaker 1: would be able to not just understand why we age, 44 00:02:55,240 --> 00:02:59,239 Speaker 1: but even figure out how to slow it downward. Typically 45 00:02:59,240 --> 00:03:01,880 Speaker 1: people's reaction to that is, well, aging is natural, let's 46 00:03:01,919 --> 00:03:05,160 Speaker 1: just accept what we're given. But we used to say 47 00:03:05,160 --> 00:03:07,880 Speaker 1: that about cancer and heart disease, and we forget that 48 00:03:07,960 --> 00:03:11,360 Speaker 1: aging is the largest cause of disease and disability on 49 00:03:11,400 --> 00:03:14,640 Speaker 1: the planet. We're typically just treating the symptoms, not the 50 00:03:14,680 --> 00:03:18,239 Speaker 1: actual causes of these disases. To what extent is the 51 00:03:18,360 --> 00:03:23,080 Speaker 1: breakthrough in genetics make it possible for us to think 52 00:03:23,919 --> 00:03:27,840 Speaker 1: more creatively about aging. Well, yeah, it's an extremely exciting 53 00:03:27,880 --> 00:03:31,120 Speaker 1: time in biology in general, but in the aging field. 54 00:03:31,120 --> 00:03:36,000 Speaker 1: Now we have the ability to test hypotheses extremely quickly. 55 00:03:36,200 --> 00:03:38,680 Speaker 1: What used to take the year of work, we can 56 00:03:38,760 --> 00:03:42,760 Speaker 1: now do in a couple of days for one hundreds 57 00:03:42,840 --> 00:03:45,280 Speaker 1: of the costs. And what we've realized is that there 58 00:03:45,280 --> 00:03:49,480 Speaker 1: are actual genes that control the aging process. We told 59 00:03:49,520 --> 00:03:52,920 Speaker 1: these longevity genes, and more recently, what we've discovered in 60 00:03:52,960 --> 00:03:55,000 Speaker 1: my lab and a couple of other labs around the 61 00:03:55,000 --> 00:03:58,080 Speaker 1: world is that aging is fundamentally just a loss of 62 00:03:58,280 --> 00:04:01,880 Speaker 1: information over time, and that remarkably there seems to be 63 00:04:01,920 --> 00:04:05,560 Speaker 1: a backup hard drive, a copy of this youthful information 64 00:04:05,600 --> 00:04:09,120 Speaker 1: that we can tap into and reset the age of 65 00:04:09,200 --> 00:04:12,360 Speaker 1: tissues in animals, and we're hoping in the next couple 66 00:04:12,360 --> 00:04:14,200 Speaker 1: of years we'll find out if it's true for us 67 00:04:14,240 --> 00:04:18,240 Speaker 1: as well. Most of the field has transitioned into mammals, 68 00:04:18,240 --> 00:04:23,760 Speaker 1: so studying mice of course, but also organisms like naked 69 00:04:23,800 --> 00:04:27,479 Speaker 1: mole rats and non human primates, and more recently, in 70 00:04:27,480 --> 00:04:30,760 Speaker 1: the last ten years, many of us myself includers, have 71 00:04:30,920 --> 00:04:34,559 Speaker 1: started human clinical trials with molecules that we found extend 72 00:04:34,600 --> 00:04:37,919 Speaker 1: the lifespan of all those species, with the hope that 73 00:04:37,960 --> 00:04:41,279 Speaker 1: we can use these or molecules like them to be 74 00:04:41,360 --> 00:04:44,600 Speaker 1: able to slow down our aging process and prevent frailty 75 00:04:44,600 --> 00:04:47,839 Speaker 1: and heart disease, cancer Alzheimer's and push that off later. 76 00:04:48,080 --> 00:04:50,920 Speaker 1: We typically only live about forty fifty years before our 77 00:04:50,960 --> 00:04:53,520 Speaker 1: bodies start to fall apart, because that was how long 78 00:04:53,560 --> 00:04:56,640 Speaker 1: we were expected to live in prehistoric times when we 79 00:04:56,640 --> 00:04:59,640 Speaker 1: were subject to wars and predation and starvation much more 80 00:04:59,680 --> 00:05:03,880 Speaker 1: than we now walk us through more the information theory 81 00:05:03,880 --> 00:05:07,800 Speaker 1: of aging and why you think aging occurs. So this 82 00:05:07,920 --> 00:05:11,520 Speaker 1: is the big conceptual breakthrough that we've had in my lab. 83 00:05:11,880 --> 00:05:15,080 Speaker 1: The concept that I've put forward called the information theory 84 00:05:15,080 --> 00:05:17,600 Speaker 1: of aging is the idea that there are a lot 85 00:05:17,640 --> 00:05:19,640 Speaker 1: of things that go wrong with aging. We know that, 86 00:05:20,040 --> 00:05:22,080 Speaker 1: no question. We see it as heart disease, and we 87 00:05:22,080 --> 00:05:25,119 Speaker 1: see it as frailty and it ultimately ends in depth. 88 00:05:25,680 --> 00:05:28,760 Speaker 1: But if you boil it down into its element, what 89 00:05:28,839 --> 00:05:31,719 Speaker 1: I believe is going on is that the information the 90 00:05:31,839 --> 00:05:35,280 Speaker 1: cell has to stay young, information that we get from 91 00:05:35,279 --> 00:05:38,599 Speaker 1: our parents, and in the womb, that information is lost 92 00:05:38,880 --> 00:05:43,080 Speaker 1: over many years. And what am I talking about by information, Well, 93 00:05:43,120 --> 00:05:45,760 Speaker 1: there are two types of information in the body. The 94 00:05:45,800 --> 00:05:48,360 Speaker 1: one that we hear about a lot is the genetic 95 00:05:48,400 --> 00:05:52,240 Speaker 1: code the DNA, and that's a quaternary or a digital code. 96 00:05:52,680 --> 00:05:55,480 Speaker 1: We know that there are letters in a DNA ACTG 97 00:05:55,880 --> 00:05:59,920 Speaker 1: that's it, and that code, the digital code, is actually 98 00:06:00,240 --> 00:06:02,800 Speaker 1: quite robust. And we used to think that DNA damage 99 00:06:02,800 --> 00:06:06,159 Speaker 1: and mutations that accumulate were the main driver of aging. 100 00:06:06,240 --> 00:06:11,039 Speaker 1: That's spawn the multi billion dollar industry of free radical 101 00:06:11,360 --> 00:06:17,039 Speaker 1: quenching antioxidant products. But actually what's turned out that free 102 00:06:17,120 --> 00:06:20,800 Speaker 1: radicals and actual mutations don't seem to be the major 103 00:06:20,880 --> 00:06:23,440 Speaker 1: driver of aging, so we've had to look for a 104 00:06:23,480 --> 00:06:26,600 Speaker 1: new theory. Just an example of the evidence against that 105 00:06:26,720 --> 00:06:29,599 Speaker 1: theory is that we can create and many people have 106 00:06:29,680 --> 00:06:32,960 Speaker 1: created mice that accumulate a lot of mutations, and you'd 107 00:06:33,040 --> 00:06:36,120 Speaker 1: expect if it were true that they drive aging, those 108 00:06:36,200 --> 00:06:39,360 Speaker 1: mice would get old prematurely. Turned out, they don't live 109 00:06:39,400 --> 00:06:42,440 Speaker 1: a normal lifespan. So what is it that's going wrong. Well, 110 00:06:42,440 --> 00:06:45,520 Speaker 1: the other type of information in the body is not genetic, 111 00:06:45,640 --> 00:06:49,719 Speaker 1: it's epigenetic. An epigenetic just means anything that can be 112 00:06:49,760 --> 00:06:53,400 Speaker 1: passed along between parents or offspring, or cell to cell 113 00:06:54,160 --> 00:06:58,960 Speaker 1: as it divides. That's non genetic in actual molecular terms. 114 00:06:59,000 --> 00:07:02,000 Speaker 1: What we're talking about other structures that tell the cell 115 00:07:02,400 --> 00:07:07,000 Speaker 1: which genes to read. The epigenetic information is essentially the 116 00:07:07,000 --> 00:07:10,040 Speaker 1: pianist of a piano, but instead of having eighty or 117 00:07:10,080 --> 00:07:14,320 Speaker 1: so keys on the piano, our cells have twenty thousand keys, 118 00:07:14,360 --> 00:07:17,200 Speaker 1: each one being a different gene and each cell type 119 00:07:17,200 --> 00:07:20,040 Speaker 1: has to play a different tune. And my theory is 120 00:07:20,480 --> 00:07:24,320 Speaker 1: that it's not the piano that goes awry, it's the pianist, 121 00:07:24,400 --> 00:07:27,320 Speaker 1: the epigenetic pianist, and the good news is that we 122 00:07:27,400 --> 00:07:30,400 Speaker 1: think now that we can reset the pianist or bring 123 00:07:30,400 --> 00:07:33,160 Speaker 1: in a new pianist and play the music of our 124 00:07:33,200 --> 00:07:36,080 Speaker 1: lives that we had when we were young. So are 125 00:07:36,080 --> 00:07:41,160 Speaker 1: you then looking at sort of information replacement model. It's 126 00:07:41,160 --> 00:07:43,480 Speaker 1: more of a reset because what we found is that 127 00:07:43,520 --> 00:07:48,160 Speaker 1: there's a backup copy of the epigenome of that information 128 00:07:48,280 --> 00:07:51,120 Speaker 1: somewhere in the cell. We know we can access this 129 00:07:51,280 --> 00:07:53,800 Speaker 1: epigenetic information and get the cell to read the genes 130 00:07:53,800 --> 00:07:57,120 Speaker 1: the way it should when it was young, because we 131 00:07:57,160 --> 00:08:00,280 Speaker 1: can use a gene therapy. We've got the common nation 132 00:08:00,320 --> 00:08:03,960 Speaker 1: of three genes. These have a name. They're called Yamanaka factors. 133 00:08:04,560 --> 00:08:08,240 Speaker 1: They'd win the Nobel Prize in twenty twelve for doctor Yamanaka. 134 00:08:09,040 --> 00:08:12,800 Speaker 1: But we're using a particular combination of his gene three 135 00:08:12,840 --> 00:08:16,440 Speaker 1: of them that it doesn't just appear to reverse aging. 136 00:08:16,520 --> 00:08:20,000 Speaker 1: It literally does send the clock backward. And we can 137 00:08:20,040 --> 00:08:23,400 Speaker 1: read the age of a cell by measuring it's epigenome. 138 00:08:23,520 --> 00:08:26,040 Speaker 1: We can read chemicals that accumulate on the genome of 139 00:08:26,160 --> 00:08:29,000 Speaker 1: the time. But the amazing thing is that we now 140 00:08:29,080 --> 00:08:31,920 Speaker 1: know that there's this backup hard drive. We don't know 141 00:08:32,000 --> 00:08:35,320 Speaker 1: exactly how it's encoded. We don't know exactly how the 142 00:08:35,320 --> 00:08:37,760 Speaker 1: cell reads it, but we know that it's possible and 143 00:08:37,800 --> 00:08:41,240 Speaker 1: we can access it. It's as though we've finally found 144 00:08:41,240 --> 00:08:43,320 Speaker 1: the switch on the hard drive and being able to 145 00:08:43,360 --> 00:08:46,440 Speaker 1: press the reset switch. We don't know exactly what's inside 146 00:08:46,440 --> 00:08:48,600 Speaker 1: the hard drive just yet. Part And do you think 147 00:08:48,600 --> 00:08:52,760 Speaker 1: that's possible that these may be differentiated by cell types, 148 00:08:53,080 --> 00:08:55,600 Speaker 1: so that the whole body would require a series of 149 00:08:55,640 --> 00:09:02,440 Speaker 1: different interventions based on cell type rather than universal intervention. Well, 150 00:09:02,480 --> 00:09:05,000 Speaker 1: that's what we're exploring now. This is what's exciting is 151 00:09:05,040 --> 00:09:08,160 Speaker 1: that we've got some evidence that it actually is a 152 00:09:08,280 --> 00:09:12,920 Speaker 1: universal theory that applies to all different cell types. And 153 00:09:12,920 --> 00:09:14,959 Speaker 1: one of the best pieces of evidence that can give 154 00:09:15,000 --> 00:09:18,200 Speaker 1: you now is that we can do this in nerve 155 00:09:18,240 --> 00:09:21,560 Speaker 1: curtles in skin cells in the dish. And we decided 156 00:09:21,600 --> 00:09:25,360 Speaker 1: to reset the optic nerve the retina of old mice 157 00:09:25,440 --> 00:09:27,720 Speaker 1: to see what would happen. And we didn't choose the 158 00:09:27,760 --> 00:09:31,400 Speaker 1: retina because I like working with retinas. We just chose 159 00:09:31,440 --> 00:09:34,120 Speaker 1: the retina because my student knows a sair bit about 160 00:09:34,120 --> 00:09:36,560 Speaker 1: the eye. His father has worked with the eye for 161 00:09:36,640 --> 00:09:39,560 Speaker 1: his career. So my student said, let's try to reset 162 00:09:39,559 --> 00:09:42,320 Speaker 1: the eyeball, and you know, we could have chosen the liver, 163 00:09:42,360 --> 00:09:45,040 Speaker 1: we could have chosen skin. We went for the eyeball 164 00:09:45,559 --> 00:09:48,400 Speaker 1: and it worked. We now routinely take mice that are 165 00:09:48,800 --> 00:09:51,720 Speaker 1: a year old and they cannot see very well, and 166 00:09:51,840 --> 00:09:53,920 Speaker 1: we can within a matter of three weeks turn on 167 00:09:53,960 --> 00:09:56,880 Speaker 1: this gene therapy in their eye. We inject the genes 168 00:09:56,920 --> 00:10:00,679 Speaker 1: into the front of the eye. It takes literally two seconds. 169 00:10:00,679 --> 00:10:03,000 Speaker 1: We turn on these genes for three weeks and the 170 00:10:03,120 --> 00:10:08,240 Speaker 1: mice get their complete youthful vision back again. And if 171 00:10:08,240 --> 00:10:12,160 Speaker 1: it works in the eye, then I'm convinced that it's 172 00:10:12,240 --> 00:10:15,319 Speaker 1: highly likely to work in most cell types in the body. 173 00:10:15,880 --> 00:10:19,240 Speaker 1: The hard part, though, is delivering these genes across the 174 00:10:19,400 --> 00:10:23,080 Speaker 1: entire body. We don't have that technology fully developed yet. 175 00:10:23,520 --> 00:10:26,400 Speaker 1: And we're also now working on other simpler ways to 176 00:10:26,480 --> 00:10:30,120 Speaker 1: reset cells that won't require gene therapy, which of course 177 00:10:30,160 --> 00:10:33,959 Speaker 1: will be expensive and cumbersome. So we're now looking at 178 00:10:34,160 --> 00:10:37,839 Speaker 1: natural molecules that we could give to a mouse when 179 00:10:37,880 --> 00:10:40,120 Speaker 1: it's old. But obviously our hope is that we could 180 00:10:40,160 --> 00:10:43,520 Speaker 1: give a person in their fifties or sixties a course 181 00:10:43,559 --> 00:10:47,760 Speaker 1: of these pills and reset their age by five ten 182 00:10:47,840 --> 00:10:51,280 Speaker 1: years or more. Has the mouse lost their eyesight or 183 00:10:51,320 --> 00:10:55,360 Speaker 1: has it just gotten weaker before the intervention, Well, it's 184 00:10:55,440 --> 00:10:57,600 Speaker 1: lost most of its vision. What we do is we 185 00:10:57,679 --> 00:11:00,320 Speaker 1: put the mouse in front of a screen with moving lines, 186 00:11:00,480 --> 00:11:03,200 Speaker 1: vertical lines that move in front, and if it moves 187 00:11:03,320 --> 00:11:05,160 Speaker 1: its head to the way that the lines are moving, 188 00:11:05,240 --> 00:11:07,480 Speaker 1: say left to right, we know that it can see 189 00:11:07,520 --> 00:11:10,360 Speaker 1: the lines. It's an LCD screen, so we can shorten 190 00:11:10,960 --> 00:11:14,400 Speaker 1: the distance between those lines or lengthen them, and we 191 00:11:14,440 --> 00:11:16,720 Speaker 1: can tell how good its vision is. So it's probably 192 00:11:16,720 --> 00:11:19,679 Speaker 1: lost about seventy five percent of its vision by one 193 00:11:19,800 --> 00:11:24,240 Speaker 1: year of age, so it's not completely lost. But what 194 00:11:24,280 --> 00:11:27,000 Speaker 1: we find is that when we reset the eye, the 195 00:11:27,000 --> 00:11:30,520 Speaker 1: nerve cells actually regain their ability to function. Now we 196 00:11:30,559 --> 00:11:32,240 Speaker 1: can put even a probe in the back of the 197 00:11:32,240 --> 00:11:35,640 Speaker 1: eye and measure the nerve impulses, and those old mice 198 00:11:35,720 --> 00:11:39,120 Speaker 1: have almost no nerve impulses. That's the reason they've lost 199 00:11:39,120 --> 00:11:42,240 Speaker 1: a lot of their eyesight. And when we reset those cells, 200 00:11:42,320 --> 00:11:46,280 Speaker 1: we get the young electrical potential. And then we can 201 00:11:46,320 --> 00:11:50,600 Speaker 1: take those nerves out and measure which genes are being reset, 202 00:11:51,800 --> 00:11:56,160 Speaker 1: and ninety five or more percent of those genes have 203 00:11:56,320 --> 00:12:00,800 Speaker 1: gone from being an old pattern of expression as we 204 00:12:00,840 --> 00:12:03,840 Speaker 1: call it back to a young pattern, and that's why 205 00:12:03,880 --> 00:12:06,439 Speaker 1: those mice can see again. So it's very good news 206 00:12:06,440 --> 00:12:10,240 Speaker 1: that with aging, if this is true, those cells that 207 00:12:10,320 --> 00:12:13,760 Speaker 1: we think have now irreversibly lost their ability to work 208 00:12:14,360 --> 00:12:18,480 Speaker 1: can be restored in a relatively large ashen. Does that 209 00:12:18,559 --> 00:12:21,960 Speaker 1: also mean that in principle, if you could learn to 210 00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:27,200 Speaker 1: do this, you then dramatically reduce the susceptibility to disease 211 00:12:27,240 --> 00:12:30,920 Speaker 1: because you now have a youthful immune system rather than 212 00:12:30,960 --> 00:12:34,040 Speaker 1: an aging immune system. Yes, you've hit the nail on 213 00:12:34,080 --> 00:12:36,959 Speaker 1: the head. If you've got a young liver, young skin, 214 00:12:37,520 --> 00:12:42,520 Speaker 1: young immune system, you shouldn't get diseases. Diseases arise because 215 00:12:42,559 --> 00:12:45,360 Speaker 1: our cells lose their identity, I believe, and they don't 216 00:12:45,400 --> 00:12:49,600 Speaker 1: function efficiently, and the same reason that eyes lose their eyesight, 217 00:12:49,960 --> 00:12:52,680 Speaker 1: I believe the same reason why we get diseases of 218 00:12:52,760 --> 00:12:55,280 Speaker 1: old age. We'll have to see what happens to things 219 00:12:55,360 --> 00:12:57,920 Speaker 1: like the brain. Do we keep our memories even if 220 00:12:57,960 --> 00:13:00,199 Speaker 1: we reset the age of the brain we're testing at 221 00:13:00,840 --> 00:13:04,080 Speaker 1: We don't know if we're going to greatly reduce the 222 00:13:04,400 --> 00:13:07,440 Speaker 1: amount of cancer that we'll have if we reset the bodies. 223 00:13:08,040 --> 00:13:10,760 Speaker 1: So far, we know at least that it's safe. We've 224 00:13:10,760 --> 00:13:14,480 Speaker 1: been treating these mice now for up to a year 225 00:13:14,600 --> 00:13:19,360 Speaker 1: without any evidence of increased cancer in those mice. But yeah, 226 00:13:19,400 --> 00:13:21,640 Speaker 1: there's still a lot of questions. One big question that 227 00:13:21,679 --> 00:13:24,680 Speaker 1: I have is how many times can you reset? What 228 00:13:24,760 --> 00:13:26,920 Speaker 1: if we let those mice go for another year, can 229 00:13:26,960 --> 00:13:30,199 Speaker 1: we send them back again to being young? And maybe 230 00:13:30,200 --> 00:13:32,839 Speaker 1: we can reset the body five times a hundred times. 231 00:13:32,920 --> 00:13:37,280 Speaker 1: We don't know yet. So in that context, one of 232 00:13:37,280 --> 00:13:39,679 Speaker 1: the areas that we keep running across is the whole 233 00:13:39,760 --> 00:13:43,120 Speaker 1: notion of metforman. Can you sort of describe that and 234 00:13:43,160 --> 00:13:45,640 Speaker 1: where does that fit into your own thinking? Yeah, so, 235 00:13:45,800 --> 00:13:48,960 Speaker 1: metformant is a really interesting drug. This is a drug 236 00:13:49,000 --> 00:13:53,560 Speaker 1: that's treating type two diabetes in probably tens, if not 237 00:13:53,679 --> 00:13:57,600 Speaker 1: hundreds of millions of patients across the world. It's relatively safe, 238 00:13:57,640 --> 00:14:01,200 Speaker 1: it's on the list of Essential Medicines for humanity, and 239 00:14:01,280 --> 00:14:04,760 Speaker 1: it was originally developed in the nineteen sixties to improve 240 00:14:05,440 --> 00:14:07,960 Speaker 1: our blood sugar levels if they get high. But what 241 00:14:08,040 --> 00:14:11,600 Speaker 1: we've realized as a field is that by studying more 242 00:14:11,600 --> 00:14:14,600 Speaker 1: than ten thousand patients who have taken met format is 243 00:14:14,600 --> 00:14:17,160 Speaker 1: that those patients, even though they have type two diabetes, 244 00:14:17,559 --> 00:14:22,320 Speaker 1: have relatively good health and actually have dramatic reductions in 245 00:14:22,440 --> 00:14:26,640 Speaker 1: the susceptibility to certain cancers and heart disease, frailty, and 246 00:14:26,800 --> 00:14:30,400 Speaker 1: even Alzheimer's. Now how does it work, Well, that's debatable. 247 00:14:30,520 --> 00:14:32,440 Speaker 1: Still to this day, we don't know exactly how met 248 00:14:32,440 --> 00:14:36,960 Speaker 1: form and works in the body. But one major concept 249 00:14:37,160 --> 00:14:40,960 Speaker 1: is that there are these longevity genes that protect us. Now, 250 00:14:41,000 --> 00:14:44,080 Speaker 1: there are three main classes of those. I work on, 251 00:14:44,200 --> 00:14:46,880 Speaker 1: a group called surtuans. There are seven of those in 252 00:14:46,880 --> 00:14:50,840 Speaker 1: our body. There's another class which are called or emptor 253 00:14:51,640 --> 00:14:55,280 Speaker 1: is a protein complex that regulates the body's defenses when 254 00:14:55,320 --> 00:14:58,000 Speaker 1: we don't have enough protein or amino acids. And the 255 00:14:58,120 --> 00:15:03,080 Speaker 1: third one, which is really relevant metforman, is called amp K, 256 00:15:03,640 --> 00:15:06,360 Speaker 1: which is short for amp kinees, and this is an 257 00:15:06,480 --> 00:15:10,200 Speaker 1: endyme that registers low energy in the body. Now, the 258 00:15:10,280 --> 00:15:12,480 Speaker 1: important thing to know is that these three groups of 259 00:15:12,560 --> 00:15:16,240 Speaker 1: longevity genes talk to each other, and so if you 260 00:15:16,280 --> 00:15:19,360 Speaker 1: tweak wine, the others will also come on. And what 261 00:15:19,400 --> 00:15:23,800 Speaker 1: metforman does is that it activates this AMPK third class 262 00:15:23,800 --> 00:15:28,680 Speaker 1: of longevity gene and fights against deterioration. Turns on the 263 00:15:28,680 --> 00:15:31,480 Speaker 1: sortuan genes that I work on, and actually one of 264 00:15:31,480 --> 00:15:36,119 Speaker 1: the main roles of the sortuan is to preserve epigenetic information. 265 00:15:36,720 --> 00:15:39,360 Speaker 1: So what could be happening and we need to test this, 266 00:15:39,880 --> 00:15:42,840 Speaker 1: is that metformant is slowing down the ticking of the 267 00:15:42,880 --> 00:15:46,360 Speaker 1: epigenetic clock. When we can actually measure that epigenetic clock 268 00:15:46,400 --> 00:15:49,120 Speaker 1: in a blood sample, I could take your blood and 269 00:15:49,200 --> 00:15:51,680 Speaker 1: tell you how old you are biologically and have a 270 00:15:51,680 --> 00:15:53,720 Speaker 1: pretty good prediction of how long you're going to live. 271 00:15:54,160 --> 00:15:56,520 Speaker 1: And if we gave you metforman for a number of years, 272 00:15:56,640 --> 00:15:59,840 Speaker 1: we may be able to see you and hopefully hundreds 273 00:15:59,840 --> 00:16:02,400 Speaker 1: of the people that that clock is slowed down. So 274 00:16:02,480 --> 00:16:05,880 Speaker 1: it's pretty widely used now, isn't it. It's a frontline 275 00:16:05,920 --> 00:16:09,680 Speaker 1: therapy for type two diabetes millions of patients. So do 276 00:16:09,680 --> 00:16:12,320 Speaker 1: we have enough data to know that it's relatively safe 277 00:16:12,400 --> 00:16:15,840 Speaker 1: to take it? It's extremely rare. The numbers that I'm 278 00:16:15,880 --> 00:16:18,640 Speaker 1: aware of is that only one in ten thousand people 279 00:16:18,680 --> 00:16:22,760 Speaker 1: has a major reaction that requires them to completely stop 280 00:16:22,800 --> 00:16:26,120 Speaker 1: taking it. Typically, what the side effect is, and I 281 00:16:26,200 --> 00:16:29,160 Speaker 1: think this is about thirty percent of people who take it, 282 00:16:29,200 --> 00:16:31,440 Speaker 1: is that they feel as though they have an upset stomach. 283 00:16:31,800 --> 00:16:34,560 Speaker 1: I take metforman myself, and this is my problem. I 284 00:16:34,600 --> 00:16:38,160 Speaker 1: need to take metforman with food, otherwise it'll feel really harsh. 285 00:16:38,440 --> 00:16:40,120 Speaker 1: But the nice side effect of it is that it 286 00:16:40,160 --> 00:16:43,000 Speaker 1: actually suppresses appetite, and I'm trying not to eat as 287 00:16:43,080 --> 00:16:45,520 Speaker 1: much in an effort not to gain weight and also 288 00:16:45,600 --> 00:16:49,120 Speaker 1: to trigger my longevity defenses by skipping a couple of 289 00:16:49,160 --> 00:16:53,360 Speaker 1: meals if I can per day. But yeah, it's relatively safe. Now. 290 00:16:53,440 --> 00:16:56,720 Speaker 1: I'm not an MD. I'd never recommend medicine, but there's 291 00:16:56,760 --> 00:16:59,000 Speaker 1: a lot of doctors who do now think that net 292 00:16:59,040 --> 00:17:03,920 Speaker 1: Foreman is best shot right now at a prescribable medicine 293 00:17:03,920 --> 00:17:06,760 Speaker 1: that does slow many aspects of aging. And do you 294 00:17:06,800 --> 00:17:09,359 Speaker 1: have to get a prescription for it? Or is it 295 00:17:09,400 --> 00:17:13,320 Speaker 1: over the counter? In the US, it's prescription only. It's 296 00:17:13,320 --> 00:17:16,200 Speaker 1: not true for all countries. Some countries, for example, in Thailand, 297 00:17:16,680 --> 00:17:19,920 Speaker 1: it's freely available over the counter. In the US, Canada, 298 00:17:19,960 --> 00:17:23,159 Speaker 1: Australia and the UK, you do need a prescription. The 299 00:17:23,240 --> 00:17:25,080 Speaker 1: good news is that there are more and more doctors 300 00:17:25,119 --> 00:17:27,520 Speaker 1: who are learning about this. Many doctors have now read 301 00:17:27,560 --> 00:17:31,240 Speaker 1: my book and the references within the book, and I'm 302 00:17:31,280 --> 00:17:34,560 Speaker 1: hearing that many people who once could not get mad 303 00:17:34,600 --> 00:17:37,320 Speaker 1: Foreman from their doctors because they hadn't yet become type 304 00:17:37,320 --> 00:17:41,040 Speaker 1: two diabetic, are actually able to convince their doctors that 305 00:17:41,160 --> 00:17:43,560 Speaker 1: it's a good thing to actually start taking it before 306 00:17:43,560 --> 00:17:47,879 Speaker 1: you get type two diabetes. Has the FDA approved that 307 00:17:48,119 --> 00:17:52,240 Speaker 1: general use for mat format or is it still primarily 308 00:17:52,280 --> 00:17:55,960 Speaker 1: listed only as a type two diabetes drug. Yes, it's 309 00:17:55,960 --> 00:17:59,040 Speaker 1: four type two diabetes. Some doctors prescribe it off label 310 00:17:59,080 --> 00:18:02,679 Speaker 1: for treating cancer as well currently, But for aging, the 311 00:18:02,720 --> 00:18:05,680 Speaker 1: problem is that aging is not considered a medical condition, 312 00:18:06,480 --> 00:18:08,919 Speaker 1: so it's unlikely in the next few years that that 313 00:18:08,960 --> 00:18:11,720 Speaker 1: will even happen. But the FDA is open to the 314 00:18:11,880 --> 00:18:16,720 Speaker 1: idea of classifying aging as a medical condition, and in fact, 315 00:18:16,720 --> 00:18:20,600 Speaker 1: the World Health Organization did us a favor by declaring 316 00:18:20,640 --> 00:18:24,080 Speaker 1: old age as a medical condition in their handbook of 317 00:18:24,280 --> 00:18:27,320 Speaker 1: Diseases on the planet. And so the winds are in 318 00:18:27,359 --> 00:18:32,600 Speaker 1: the air, they're shifting, and we're hopefully through some clinical 319 00:18:32,600 --> 00:18:36,760 Speaker 1: trials with met Foreman that are about to begin, we 320 00:18:36,800 --> 00:18:39,080 Speaker 1: will be able to prove to the FDA that aging 321 00:18:39,200 --> 00:18:42,040 Speaker 1: is a treatable condition. And so that could be a 322 00:18:42,040 --> 00:18:44,840 Speaker 1: world where when you reach fifty, you do go on 323 00:18:44,920 --> 00:18:47,600 Speaker 1: to medicine that will give you an extra five ten 324 00:18:47,680 --> 00:18:51,280 Speaker 1: years of healthy existence. Isn't there a National Institute of Aging. 325 00:18:51,600 --> 00:18:54,200 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, they found my life. In that sense, there 326 00:18:54,240 --> 00:18:57,119 Speaker 1: may be an ability for ANIH to help make the 327 00:18:57,200 --> 00:19:02,040 Speaker 1: case that we should simply treat aging as a disease 328 00:19:02,080 --> 00:19:05,560 Speaker 1: and not as a condition. They're very much behind this. 329 00:19:05,800 --> 00:19:09,399 Speaker 1: They've been helping lobby the FDA that come also to 330 00:19:09,440 --> 00:19:12,840 Speaker 1: speak with members of Congress. We're all behind this. It 331 00:19:12,880 --> 00:19:16,320 Speaker 1: makes perfect sense just that this is These are big institutions, 332 00:19:16,359 --> 00:19:19,040 Speaker 1: and they take a long time, and they're very conservative. 333 00:19:19,600 --> 00:19:24,600 Speaker 1: Doing something which dramatically improves aging could be an enormous breakthrough. 334 00:19:25,400 --> 00:19:28,879 Speaker 1: Somebody once said it makes social Security more expensive, but 335 00:19:29,040 --> 00:19:32,200 Speaker 1: saves you a whole lot of medicare that's really true. 336 00:19:32,240 --> 00:19:34,080 Speaker 1: I mean the amount of money that is predicted to 337 00:19:34,119 --> 00:19:36,720 Speaker 1: be saved by one of these medicines is in the 338 00:19:36,800 --> 00:19:40,560 Speaker 1: trillions over the decade that follows. So this is money 339 00:19:40,560 --> 00:19:45,080 Speaker 1: that would more than enough color social security. And also 340 00:19:45,160 --> 00:19:48,480 Speaker 1: people become more productive members of the community and they 341 00:19:48,480 --> 00:19:50,800 Speaker 1: can go back and work. There's a lot of positive 342 00:19:50,800 --> 00:19:53,719 Speaker 1: things that would come from keeping people healthier, no question. 343 00:19:54,080 --> 00:19:56,120 Speaker 1: To be honest, I think the world is in a stupor. 344 00:19:56,680 --> 00:19:58,600 Speaker 1: They need to wake up to this fact. And I 345 00:19:58,640 --> 00:20:00,119 Speaker 1: know in the future, they're going to look back that 346 00:20:00,720 --> 00:20:03,320 Speaker 1: days like today and think, what were they thinking? Why 347 00:20:03,320 --> 00:20:05,920 Speaker 1: weren't they addressing the most important problem that they face 348 00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:08,399 Speaker 1: as a planet. It seems to me that this is 349 00:20:08,440 --> 00:20:12,359 Speaker 1: a pretty useful place for the President and the Congress 350 00:20:12,640 --> 00:20:16,880 Speaker 1: to sort of adopt a resolution on FDA but also 351 00:20:16,920 --> 00:20:22,720 Speaker 1: calling a medicare to start thinking about a therapeutic alternative 352 00:20:22,840 --> 00:20:27,560 Speaker 1: aging and having as a goal dramatically extending productive and 353 00:20:27,640 --> 00:20:30,680 Speaker 1: healthy life. Well, that would make my day. It would 354 00:20:30,720 --> 00:20:32,920 Speaker 1: really change the world. And in fact, there's a lot 355 00:20:32,960 --> 00:20:35,880 Speaker 1: of innovation that's going on, but we're not very well funded. 356 00:20:36,720 --> 00:20:41,240 Speaker 1: In a National Institute on Aging only spends a fraction 357 00:20:41,280 --> 00:20:44,040 Speaker 1: of one percent of its budget to address the major 358 00:20:44,119 --> 00:20:47,199 Speaker 1: cause of all age related diseases. But maybe we have 359 00:20:47,240 --> 00:20:49,080 Speaker 1: to change the name. Maybe we should just call it 360 00:20:49,800 --> 00:20:53,560 Speaker 1: age related deterioration or something else, because aging, you know, 361 00:20:53,600 --> 00:20:56,120 Speaker 1: it's got this halo around it as though you shouldn't 362 00:20:56,119 --> 00:20:59,959 Speaker 1: touch it. It's natural. It makes life meaningful. But anyone 363 00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:02,359 Speaker 1: who's experienced aging or had a loved one who's seen 364 00:21:02,440 --> 00:21:05,000 Speaker 1: what happens, I don't think you can argue that we 365 00:21:05,040 --> 00:21:07,280 Speaker 1: should just forget about this and not tackle it. With 366 00:21:07,560 --> 00:21:12,800 Speaker 1: major resources. As I understand it, the scientists at Australia's 367 00:21:12,880 --> 00:21:16,960 Speaker 1: National Science Agency have a sort of genetic clock computer 368 00:21:17,760 --> 00:21:24,159 Speaker 1: and they project that the natural lifespan actually is something 369 00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:27,199 Speaker 1: like thirty eight years. We were kind of designed to 370 00:21:27,840 --> 00:21:30,840 Speaker 1: be born, grow up, have children, and get out of 371 00:21:30,840 --> 00:21:35,360 Speaker 1: the way. In that sense, aren't what you're doing just 372 00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:40,800 Speaker 1: an extraordinary radical break with the classic evolution of humans? 373 00:21:41,320 --> 00:21:45,040 Speaker 1: This is just a natural progression. Is there anything that 374 00:21:45,080 --> 00:21:46,959 Speaker 1: we haven't worked on as human to try and make 375 00:21:47,000 --> 00:21:50,520 Speaker 1: our lives better? Why is aging any different? The people 376 00:21:50,520 --> 00:21:53,200 Speaker 1: I've talked with, in addition to yourself, who are really 377 00:21:53,320 --> 00:21:58,120 Speaker 1: into looking at this, all offered this sense that we're 378 00:21:58,200 --> 00:22:01,679 Speaker 1: right at the edge of breakthroughs that will literally change 379 00:22:01,720 --> 00:22:05,920 Speaker 1: the world in terms of people living much longer, much healthier, 380 00:22:06,600 --> 00:22:12,399 Speaker 1: having a much less disease because they maintaining much stronger 381 00:22:12,400 --> 00:22:16,320 Speaker 1: and more vibrant immune systems. I mean, is that sort 382 00:22:16,359 --> 00:22:19,480 Speaker 1: of how you see it evolving? I do. We aren't 383 00:22:19,480 --> 00:22:22,359 Speaker 1: just on the verge of breakthroughs. We've made major breakthroughs. 384 00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:24,879 Speaker 1: We now have a very good idea about how to 385 00:22:24,920 --> 00:22:28,400 Speaker 1: live our lives to stay younger. And then on top 386 00:22:28,440 --> 00:22:30,840 Speaker 1: of that, we've discovered that eighty percent of our health 387 00:22:30,840 --> 00:22:35,240 Speaker 1: in old ages is epigenetic and only twenty percent is genetic, 388 00:22:35,280 --> 00:22:38,439 Speaker 1: which is very empowering. We live in a world now 389 00:22:38,480 --> 00:22:40,600 Speaker 1: with enough information to be able to do a lot 390 00:22:40,640 --> 00:22:44,439 Speaker 1: about our lifespan and push our health out, but we 391 00:22:44,480 --> 00:22:46,439 Speaker 1: do need a little help, right. We still have this 392 00:22:46,520 --> 00:22:49,040 Speaker 1: baggage from evolution where we used to die at forty 393 00:22:49,160 --> 00:22:52,439 Speaker 1: from most things, but that doesn't mean we need to 394 00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:56,160 Speaker 1: accept it. We are on the verge of many different 395 00:22:56,160 --> 00:23:01,520 Speaker 1: ways to keep ourselves alive. From biotracking devices, a watch 396 00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:03,679 Speaker 1: or a ring, I'm wearing a ring that tells me 397 00:23:04,560 --> 00:23:07,119 Speaker 1: various vitals. We can take blood tests that tell us 398 00:23:07,160 --> 00:23:09,639 Speaker 1: how to optimize our body, and then the drugs that 399 00:23:09,680 --> 00:23:12,080 Speaker 1: are coming. We already have met foremen, which we think 400 00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:15,640 Speaker 1: is an early lucky start towards the kind of medicine 401 00:23:16,040 --> 00:23:20,160 Speaker 1: that should be prescribable to people as they become middle 402 00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:23,640 Speaker 1: aged and older that would hopefully give people another ten 403 00:23:23,720 --> 00:23:27,040 Speaker 1: years of productive life. And eventually, if we're looking towards 404 00:23:27,080 --> 00:23:29,680 Speaker 1: the end of this century, why couldn't we live another 405 00:23:29,720 --> 00:23:33,119 Speaker 1: twenty thirty years in healthy life. I think even extrapolating 406 00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:36,760 Speaker 1: of the advances that we've been making over the last 407 00:23:36,760 --> 00:23:39,720 Speaker 1: two hundred years. If you do a linear extrapolation, a 408 00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:42,639 Speaker 1: child born today in the US will be able to 409 00:23:42,680 --> 00:23:45,639 Speaker 1: live on average to one hundred and four and in 410 00:23:45,720 --> 00:23:47,840 Speaker 1: Japan it's one hundred and seven. And that's even without 411 00:23:47,920 --> 00:23:51,919 Speaker 1: a major breakthrough. You're talking about also a very different 412 00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:56,840 Speaker 1: quality of life in your eighties and nineties. Then will 413 00:23:56,840 --> 00:23:59,960 Speaker 1: we've been used to thinking of is getting older? For sure? 414 00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:03,440 Speaker 1: Let me make it personal rather than scientific. I think 415 00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:07,280 Speaker 1: it's more helpful here. My father is now eighty. In 416 00:24:07,359 --> 00:24:10,879 Speaker 1: his late sixties, he was not looking forward to a 417 00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:13,879 Speaker 1: next decade of his life. He could see what happened 418 00:24:13,880 --> 00:24:16,680 Speaker 1: to his mother, and she was in a wheelchair from 419 00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:20,159 Speaker 1: her seventies and eighties and eventually died in early nineties. 420 00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:22,920 Speaker 1: But the last fifteen years of her life where nothing 421 00:24:22,960 --> 00:24:26,399 Speaker 1: you would wish on anybody. This is the situation that 422 00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:29,280 Speaker 1: we're left with if we keep playing whack a mole medicine, 423 00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:33,240 Speaker 1: treating diseases once they actually occur, rather than addressing the 424 00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:36,199 Speaker 1: actual major cause of all of these problems. But my 425 00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:39,320 Speaker 1: father has taken his health into his own hands. He's 426 00:24:39,359 --> 00:24:44,280 Speaker 1: doing the right things, which include exercise, fasting, He's taking 427 00:24:44,320 --> 00:24:46,199 Speaker 1: met foreman. He's taking a couple of other things that 428 00:24:46,240 --> 00:24:50,800 Speaker 1: we've discovered in my lab are helpful, and although this 429 00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:53,879 Speaker 1: is not a clinical trial, it's a beacon of hope 430 00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:56,480 Speaker 1: for what the world could look like for people in 431 00:24:56,520 --> 00:24:59,080 Speaker 1: their eighties and nineties. He's gone back to work, he 432 00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:02,320 Speaker 1: started a new career, he just took shipment of his 433 00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:05,520 Speaker 1: dream car. He got a Tesla, and he's reliving his life. 434 00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:08,080 Speaker 1: And he has no eggs or pains or diseases at eighty, 435 00:25:08,200 --> 00:25:11,600 Speaker 1: his eyesight, sines, hearing sign he's traveling the world. So 436 00:25:11,680 --> 00:25:15,399 Speaker 1: imagine if we could do that for the majority of 437 00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:18,520 Speaker 1: the US population. Imagine the productivity and the money would 438 00:25:18,520 --> 00:25:22,040 Speaker 1: save rather than having men in their eighties being spoon 439 00:25:22,119 --> 00:25:26,200 Speaker 1: fed or essentially passing away. So, in a sense, you're 440 00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:30,919 Speaker 1: talking about a shift from a response centered medicine to 441 00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:35,040 Speaker 1: a prevention centered medicine. Right. Well, I don't want to 442 00:25:35,040 --> 00:25:37,160 Speaker 1: throw away all the good work that we've done over 443 00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:40,160 Speaker 1: the last hundred years in medicine, but I think we're 444 00:25:40,160 --> 00:25:44,680 Speaker 1: missing a huge opportunity to lengthen lives by starting earlier 445 00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:47,960 Speaker 1: and tackling the major cause, because right now we just 446 00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:52,000 Speaker 1: deal with things after it's already too late, and it's 447 00:25:52,040 --> 00:25:55,320 Speaker 1: not surprising that we're running up against the barrier, which 448 00:25:55,359 --> 00:25:59,160 Speaker 1: is aging itself. We've pretty much solved all the easy things. 449 00:25:59,200 --> 00:26:03,800 Speaker 1: We've taken care of childhood illness, death, at childbirth, infection, 450 00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:08,239 Speaker 1: and now because aging is the major problem, we're just 451 00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:11,719 Speaker 1: trying to keep people alive when it's pretty much too 452 00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:13,800 Speaker 1: late by the time doctors get involved. I mean, most 453 00:26:13,800 --> 00:26:16,359 Speaker 1: people go to the doctor only when they get sick, 454 00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:20,920 Speaker 1: and you know, maybe an annual physical. That's ridiculous. We 455 00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:24,119 Speaker 1: should be getting tests or having monitors on our body 456 00:26:24,119 --> 00:26:27,560 Speaker 1: that tell us years before we actually get so sick 457 00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:29,960 Speaker 1: that it's too late. One of the things that I 458 00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:33,600 Speaker 1: was proudest of when I was a speaker is that, 459 00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:36,919 Speaker 1: even though we were being very frugal and balancing the 460 00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:39,880 Speaker 1: federal budget for four years in a row, we doubled 461 00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:44,280 Speaker 1: the NIH budget. Could you explain, just for our listeners, 462 00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:47,600 Speaker 1: how important is it to have the kind of basic 463 00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:54,560 Speaker 1: research investment that NIH and the National Science Foundation represent. Well, 464 00:26:55,040 --> 00:26:57,560 Speaker 1: you changed the world, You literally did. Many of the 465 00:26:57,640 --> 00:27:01,040 Speaker 1: medicines that we have today have come as a result 466 00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:04,840 Speaker 1: of that funding. I myself was a recipient of that funding. 467 00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:09,040 Speaker 1: My early career in the nineties and two thousands when 468 00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:14,320 Speaker 1: I started at Harvard, relied on that funding, and we 469 00:27:14,440 --> 00:27:17,880 Speaker 1: now are reaping all those benefits. It's actually a misconception 470 00:27:18,119 --> 00:27:21,679 Speaker 1: of some people that the universities pay for research they 471 00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:25,760 Speaker 1: actually don't. Research is like myself, who study the fundamental 472 00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:30,240 Speaker 1: causes of disease, rely sometimes one hundred percent on the 473 00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:33,359 Speaker 1: government to fund our research. And often when we do 474 00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:36,160 Speaker 1: this research, we don't know where it's going to lead. 475 00:27:36,520 --> 00:27:39,920 Speaker 1: Sometimes we're studying little worms or flies. We don't know 476 00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:43,399 Speaker 1: twenty years down the future where we are today, what 477 00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:46,080 Speaker 1: the breakthroughs are going to be. We just know that 478 00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:49,520 Speaker 1: if you give smart people money and curious people money 479 00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:53,760 Speaker 1: and they can justify it, they're going to make fundamental breakthroughs. 480 00:27:54,359 --> 00:27:57,880 Speaker 1: And that's what happened, and we now have a whole 481 00:27:57,920 --> 00:28:01,040 Speaker 1: generation of young scientists like self and people that I've 482 00:28:01,080 --> 00:28:06,960 Speaker 1: now trained, that are studying remarkably exciting areas of biology, 483 00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:12,400 Speaker 1: such as aging research. And it also fueled the genomics revolution. 484 00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:14,320 Speaker 1: We now are in a world where instead of doing 485 00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:17,679 Speaker 1: a humans unit over two years and a billion dollars, 486 00:28:17,680 --> 00:28:19,840 Speaker 1: we can do it over two days for a hundred dollars. 487 00:28:20,080 --> 00:28:23,480 Speaker 1: Essentially it'll be freezing. And this is largely because of 488 00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:26,000 Speaker 1: the investment back in the early two thousands and the 489 00:28:26,040 --> 00:28:29,879 Speaker 1: mid nineteen nineties, and I'm extremely grateful for that opportunity, 490 00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:33,480 Speaker 1: and I think that the world is different and many 491 00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:36,040 Speaker 1: millions of lives have been saved as a result. One 492 00:28:36,040 --> 00:28:38,720 Speaker 1: of the things that I've noticed is that as you're 493 00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:42,360 Speaker 1: thinking about all this, in addition to the physical and 494 00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:47,440 Speaker 1: genetic patterns, that apparently people who experience stress have a 495 00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:50,560 Speaker 1: big impact in terms of aging. What is your theory 496 00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:54,120 Speaker 1: of the role of stress in this whole process. There's 497 00:28:54,160 --> 00:28:56,680 Speaker 1: good stress and there's bad stress. So keep the bad 498 00:28:56,680 --> 00:29:00,440 Speaker 1: stress away, which is being depressed, being over us all 499 00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:04,320 Speaker 1: the time, because what you'll get is cortisol levels going up, 500 00:29:04,360 --> 00:29:08,320 Speaker 1: which will accelerate inflammation, and inflammation is very bad for 501 00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:12,360 Speaker 1: your longevity. But there is a good type of stress, 502 00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:15,560 Speaker 1: and that is what we call hormesis, a bit of 503 00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:18,200 Speaker 1: biological stress. You want to put your body in a 504 00:29:18,320 --> 00:29:22,560 Speaker 1: state of perceived adversity. In other words, the world we've 505 00:29:22,600 --> 00:29:27,000 Speaker 1: built around ourselves is that we don't have to experience hunger. Typically, 506 00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:30,520 Speaker 1: we don't have to walk very far, and in response, 507 00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:34,240 Speaker 1: our longevity genes are essentially switched off during our lives, 508 00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:37,360 Speaker 1: and therefore our bodies don't fight disease. And this is 509 00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:40,240 Speaker 1: another reason why I think that we have a reduction 510 00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:43,040 Speaker 1: in lifestin in this country because we've succumbed to a 511 00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:45,640 Speaker 1: very easy life. And the problem is that our bodies 512 00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:48,000 Speaker 1: become complacent and they don't turn on these genes. So 513 00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:50,239 Speaker 1: what we do in the lab and what I do 514 00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:52,840 Speaker 1: in my life is we'd like to trick the body 515 00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:56,040 Speaker 1: into being in a perceived state of adversity. So what 516 00:29:56,040 --> 00:29:58,480 Speaker 1: does that mean? We need to lose our breath once 517 00:29:58,480 --> 00:30:00,840 Speaker 1: in a while, a few times week, even just for 518 00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:04,640 Speaker 1: ten minutes, get on a treadmill, climbs insteads be hungry. 519 00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:07,920 Speaker 1: I typically skip breakfast and lunch if I forget to 520 00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:10,280 Speaker 1: eat in normal dinner. But that period of hunger and 521 00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:13,800 Speaker 1: period of exhaustion is what turns on our longevity jeans, 522 00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:17,800 Speaker 1: and we believe would slow down the aging process. But yeah, 523 00:30:17,880 --> 00:30:21,120 Speaker 1: in terms of stress, you want to be surrounded by friends. 524 00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:23,960 Speaker 1: You don't want to always be lonely and stressed out. 525 00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:25,680 Speaker 1: You can see that in the zoo. You can see 526 00:30:25,720 --> 00:30:28,320 Speaker 1: that in your own pets. If they're stressed out, they 527 00:30:28,360 --> 00:30:31,200 Speaker 1: will get sicker and die earlier. You know, let me 528 00:30:31,280 --> 00:30:34,600 Speaker 1: explain why. When you look at people who have been 529 00:30:35,040 --> 00:30:39,400 Speaker 1: sort of historic leaders, there's something about their will to survive, 530 00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:43,320 Speaker 1: as with Henry Kissinger recently, and Henry's twenty years older 531 00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:47,360 Speaker 1: than I am now seeking his advice about aging productively, 532 00:30:47,360 --> 00:30:49,880 Speaker 1: and he was saying, you know, you're such a young person, 533 00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:52,440 Speaker 1: why are you even worrying about this stuff? And he 534 00:30:52,520 --> 00:30:55,840 Speaker 1: travels all over the world at ninety six years of age, 535 00:30:56,120 --> 00:31:00,600 Speaker 1: and I think the very engagement keeps his un system 536 00:31:00,680 --> 00:31:03,200 Speaker 1: so high. And you see this in a lot of leaders. 537 00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:05,880 Speaker 1: I used to think that it was just a biological 538 00:31:06,680 --> 00:31:09,200 Speaker 1: DNA thing that they just happened to strong immune systems. 539 00:31:09,520 --> 00:31:13,400 Speaker 1: But in essentially you're describing is they engage in activities 540 00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:18,560 Speaker 1: which keep up their biological pattern so that they're just 541 00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:22,479 Speaker 1: naturally stronger because they have sort of a good stress 542 00:31:22,560 --> 00:31:26,200 Speaker 1: that they live with. Being engaged, keeping your mind active, 543 00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:29,640 Speaker 1: moving are all good things, and leaders typically do that, 544 00:31:30,360 --> 00:31:33,240 Speaker 1: and so maintaining a good perspective is known to help. 545 00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:35,800 Speaker 1: But the question I would have is how does that work? 546 00:31:36,240 --> 00:31:39,800 Speaker 1: And one of the breakthroughs that's come recently from studying 547 00:31:39,920 --> 00:31:42,880 Speaker 1: animals in the lab mice. Typically is that the brain 548 00:31:43,040 --> 00:31:46,680 Speaker 1: can control your rate of aging. Don Shan Kai. He's 549 00:31:46,920 --> 00:31:49,440 Speaker 1: in New York. He's at Albert Einstein College of Medicine. 550 00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:52,040 Speaker 1: He published a Nature paper a few years ago that 551 00:31:52,120 --> 00:31:55,240 Speaker 1: showed that if he keeps inflammation down in the brain 552 00:31:55,760 --> 00:31:58,520 Speaker 1: in a particular part of the brain called the hypothalamus, 553 00:31:58,720 --> 00:32:01,880 Speaker 1: the mice live longer. And so that might be the 554 00:32:01,920 --> 00:32:05,280 Speaker 1: way this is working. If our brains are healthy and active, 555 00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:08,040 Speaker 1: then they're sending out healthy signals to the rest of 556 00:32:08,040 --> 00:32:10,720 Speaker 1: the body as a result. And so maybe that's why 557 00:32:11,280 --> 00:32:14,240 Speaker 1: Henry is still able to function like that at ninety six. 558 00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:16,120 Speaker 1: Would be great if we all could do that. Are 559 00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:18,800 Speaker 1: you really talking about a world in which people function 560 00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:20,920 Speaker 1: at a much younger age than the age they end 561 00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:23,200 Speaker 1: up being. So when I ask people how long do 562 00:32:23,240 --> 00:32:25,480 Speaker 1: they want to live, people say, oh, I don't want 563 00:32:25,480 --> 00:32:28,520 Speaker 1: to live beyond a hundred, But they're missing the point. 564 00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:31,959 Speaker 1: The point is that someone who lives over a hundred 565 00:32:32,520 --> 00:32:35,680 Speaker 1: was still playing tennis when they were nineties and maybe 566 00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:38,920 Speaker 1: starting a new career. You're exactly right. The longer you 567 00:32:39,000 --> 00:32:43,320 Speaker 1: live means the healthier you are throughout life. People actually 568 00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:46,120 Speaker 1: who live over a hundred when you ask them how 569 00:32:46,160 --> 00:32:48,640 Speaker 1: often did they get sick in their lives, most of 570 00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:51,280 Speaker 1: them say they've never been sick. They can't remember getting sick. 571 00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:55,080 Speaker 1: That's a vibrant life. And what happens to people who 572 00:32:55,120 --> 00:32:57,719 Speaker 1: live over a hundred is that they die more quickly 573 00:32:58,160 --> 00:33:01,080 Speaker 1: and they cost and this is a fact, on average, 574 00:33:01,080 --> 00:33:04,120 Speaker 1: one third less than someone who dies before a hundred. 575 00:33:04,560 --> 00:33:07,640 Speaker 1: So that's also going to save the US in the 576 00:33:07,680 --> 00:33:09,880 Speaker 1: world a great deal of money if we can make 577 00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:12,640 Speaker 1: people live longer. I want to get a study done 578 00:33:12,640 --> 00:33:16,160 Speaker 1: by somebody along this line, because if you project it out, 579 00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:19,120 Speaker 1: I couldn't wait to go to the Congressional Budget Office 580 00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:22,240 Speaker 1: and the Office of Management Budget and the actuaries at 581 00:33:22,240 --> 00:33:25,880 Speaker 1: the Center for Medicare's and say to them, Okay, we 582 00:33:26,040 --> 00:33:30,800 Speaker 1: know almost exactly what you said. That the real problem 583 00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:34,959 Speaker 1: is people who allow themselves to have chronic conditions in 584 00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:38,840 Speaker 1: their seventies and eighties or their late sixties. They're expensive. 585 00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:43,040 Speaker 1: But if you in fact have both the attitude and 586 00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:46,040 Speaker 1: the habits and the patterns and the genetics to be 587 00:33:46,160 --> 00:33:51,160 Speaker 1: relatively healthy until you're in your nineties, you die remarkably inexpensively. 588 00:33:51,640 --> 00:33:55,280 Speaker 1: So the lifetime costs to medicare of a person who 589 00:33:55,320 --> 00:33:57,600 Speaker 1: lives to be a hundred for every person who has 590 00:33:57,600 --> 00:34:01,360 Speaker 1: a chronic condition at sixty five still end up making money, 591 00:34:01,800 --> 00:34:04,800 Speaker 1: and the amount that'll save in medicare will almost certainly 592 00:34:04,840 --> 00:34:08,240 Speaker 1: balance the budget. And because they'll be healthier, they'll actually 593 00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:10,839 Speaker 1: earn more and pay more in taxes than they'll get 594 00:34:10,880 --> 00:34:14,680 Speaker 1: in Social Security. This could be the pro health, pro 595 00:34:14,840 --> 00:34:18,960 Speaker 1: aging strategy for a balanced budget. Well, I couldn't agree more. 596 00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:21,680 Speaker 1: And I'm doing modeling of this with a couple of 597 00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:25,400 Speaker 1: professors in London and we're almost done with those projections. 598 00:34:25,600 --> 00:34:27,920 Speaker 1: I'd be happy to send those across to you. What 599 00:34:27,960 --> 00:34:32,200 Speaker 1: we found is a virtuous positive feedback cycle, which is 600 00:34:33,000 --> 00:34:36,080 Speaker 1: health springs wealth. Wealth brings health, and for the individual, 601 00:34:36,640 --> 00:34:41,320 Speaker 1: they are remarkably more productive and then their productivity generates 602 00:34:41,320 --> 00:34:44,959 Speaker 1: wealth that can generate health, and it just goes up exponentially. 603 00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:48,120 Speaker 1: We could argue that you have a duty to age 604 00:34:48,160 --> 00:34:51,319 Speaker 1: well because it will help save America if you'll just 605 00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:54,080 Speaker 1: age well and be cheap in your use of medicare. 606 00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:57,440 Speaker 1: From your standpoint, you know, people run into these various 607 00:34:57,719 --> 00:35:00,800 Speaker 1: general health stores they buy supp and so looking for 608 00:35:00,840 --> 00:35:03,239 Speaker 1: all sorts of things. I have some other friends who 609 00:35:03,239 --> 00:35:06,800 Speaker 1: are literally leaving the country in order to get stem 610 00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:11,799 Speaker 1: cell treatments that they claim substantially helps them. What's your 611 00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:15,959 Speaker 1: reaction as a researcher in this field to those kind 612 00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:20,000 Speaker 1: of strategies. There are some things that are low risk 613 00:35:20,200 --> 00:35:23,439 Speaker 1: and high reward, like met Foreman. It's cheap, it's maybe 614 00:35:23,480 --> 00:35:27,200 Speaker 1: a few cents a day, no downside, only potential upside, 615 00:35:27,520 --> 00:35:30,279 Speaker 1: So that kind of approach, and some supplements. I take 616 00:35:30,320 --> 00:35:33,120 Speaker 1: a couple. One is called resvertual from red wine, which 617 00:35:33,120 --> 00:35:35,880 Speaker 1: we became known for in the Only two thousands, and 618 00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:38,279 Speaker 1: another one called an amen, which boots any d The 619 00:35:38,320 --> 00:35:41,360 Speaker 1: reason for that is that activates the curtians that we 620 00:35:41,600 --> 00:35:45,279 Speaker 1: the genes we work on. These are all very benign 621 00:35:45,360 --> 00:35:48,560 Speaker 1: substances that at worth I'm throwing my money away, but 622 00:35:48,640 --> 00:35:51,840 Speaker 1: they're not even that expensive, so that's one end. I 623 00:35:51,960 --> 00:35:55,200 Speaker 1: choose to do the safe but high reward stuff. So 624 00:35:55,320 --> 00:35:57,600 Speaker 1: does my father at AD. That's an easy calculation for 625 00:35:57,680 --> 00:35:59,640 Speaker 1: him because he knows what's going to happen if he 626 00:35:59,680 --> 00:36:03,839 Speaker 1: doesn't anything. At the other extreme, there's expensive procedures that 627 00:36:04,239 --> 00:36:10,239 Speaker 1: are not yet proven but also have some potential risk. Transfusion, 628 00:36:10,400 --> 00:36:13,960 Speaker 1: for example, we don't know at all if there's a benefit, 629 00:36:14,560 --> 00:36:16,400 Speaker 1: and you've got to have some faith to it. But 630 00:36:16,480 --> 00:36:18,279 Speaker 1: I'm not going to tell anyone how to live their lives. 631 00:36:18,320 --> 00:36:20,640 Speaker 1: I think everyone has a right to spend their money 632 00:36:20,800 --> 00:36:23,240 Speaker 1: and live their lives how they want. I think that's 633 00:36:23,280 --> 00:36:26,839 Speaker 1: an extreme. I'm only fifty, so give me another twenty 634 00:36:26,880 --> 00:36:30,000 Speaker 1: years and I'll probably feel differently about it. But at 635 00:36:30,040 --> 00:36:32,600 Speaker 1: my age, I think the things that I do, which 636 00:36:32,600 --> 00:36:37,120 Speaker 1: are lifestyle changes and a few supplements, are doing me 637 00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:41,399 Speaker 1: enough good for now. I think the issue for most 638 00:36:41,440 --> 00:36:44,400 Speaker 1: people right now is there's so much information and also 639 00:36:44,520 --> 00:36:49,360 Speaker 1: misinformation about these procedures. And that's why I wrote my book, 640 00:36:49,560 --> 00:36:53,040 Speaker 1: is to talk about the science as it is that 641 00:36:53,160 --> 00:36:56,439 Speaker 1: we all agree on and what things we think they're 642 00:36:56,520 --> 00:36:58,719 Speaker 1: likely to work, and also things that I think are 643 00:36:58,800 --> 00:37:03,560 Speaker 1: a fringe not yet ready for prime time. Is there 644 00:37:03,960 --> 00:37:07,600 Speaker 1: one or more websites that seem to be pretty close 645 00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:10,600 Speaker 1: to the current state of information flow that you could 646 00:37:10,680 --> 00:37:15,200 Speaker 1: recommend to people who want to be actively involved and 647 00:37:15,320 --> 00:37:19,120 Speaker 1: understand who's coming down the road. The one that I 648 00:37:19,160 --> 00:37:23,640 Speaker 1: can vouch for is my own website, lifespanbook dot com, 649 00:37:23,680 --> 00:37:25,400 Speaker 1: and you can sign up for a newsletter that I 650 00:37:25,520 --> 00:37:29,080 Speaker 1: put out, and there's also blogs that I've written over 651 00:37:29,120 --> 00:37:33,279 Speaker 1: the last year or so about the technologies, and that's 652 00:37:33,320 --> 00:37:36,480 Speaker 1: based on having read tens of thousands of scientific papers. 653 00:37:36,480 --> 00:37:38,399 Speaker 1: So this is as good as you'll get in terms 654 00:37:38,440 --> 00:37:40,520 Speaker 1: of information. The last thing I want to ask you 655 00:37:40,560 --> 00:37:42,600 Speaker 1: about is you mentioned in passing, both for you and 656 00:37:42,680 --> 00:37:47,480 Speaker 1: your father, the importance of fasting as a part of 657 00:37:47,480 --> 00:37:50,520 Speaker 1: this process. Can you describe why that matters and how 658 00:37:50,560 --> 00:37:54,239 Speaker 1: it works? Since Hippocrates, we've known probably before that that 659 00:37:54,360 --> 00:37:58,160 Speaker 1: fasting is beneficial, and people that live a long time 660 00:37:58,200 --> 00:38:02,320 Speaker 1: typically have not eaten three full meals a day. So actually, 661 00:38:02,440 --> 00:38:05,960 Speaker 1: I think that the nutritionists have done this country a 662 00:38:06,080 --> 00:38:09,240 Speaker 1: huge disservice saying that we should be eating three square 663 00:38:09,280 --> 00:38:12,319 Speaker 1: meals plus snacks in between, and that's partly what I 664 00:38:12,360 --> 00:38:16,520 Speaker 1: believe is responsible for the obesity epidemic. Besides low quality 665 00:38:16,560 --> 00:38:20,000 Speaker 1: foods that are cheap, what happens, we've discovered when you 666 00:38:20,120 --> 00:38:26,600 Speaker 1: fast is that you turn on your tan longevity defenses. 667 00:38:27,160 --> 00:38:30,680 Speaker 1: So twans are genes that make proteins that defend the body. 668 00:38:31,200 --> 00:38:34,560 Speaker 1: These are the equivalent of the pentagon of the body. 669 00:38:35,120 --> 00:38:38,240 Speaker 1: They are snding out fruits to defend us all the time. 670 00:38:38,960 --> 00:38:43,520 Speaker 1: But unless there's an emergency, they don't mobilize their resources. 671 00:38:43,560 --> 00:38:46,799 Speaker 1: They store it up. We store fat, and so when 672 00:38:46,800 --> 00:38:50,239 Speaker 1: we fast, what we're doing is basically making a call 673 00:38:50,320 --> 00:38:52,560 Speaker 1: to the pentagon in the body, these two and that 674 00:38:52,680 --> 00:38:55,120 Speaker 1: there's a problem, we might starve. We've got to get 675 00:38:55,120 --> 00:38:58,759 Speaker 1: ready for adversity, and in response, they send out other 676 00:38:58,800 --> 00:39:03,440 Speaker 1: proteins to hear the body. They'll help repair bloke in DNA, 677 00:39:03,520 --> 00:39:08,200 Speaker 1: they'll reduce inflammation. And that's why we think fasting is 678 00:39:08,280 --> 00:39:11,560 Speaker 1: very good for you, same as exercise, same as sauna. 679 00:39:11,800 --> 00:39:14,640 Speaker 1: We think that these are hormesis effects. We call this 680 00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:17,160 Speaker 1: term hormesis. What doesn't kill you makes you live longer 681 00:39:17,960 --> 00:39:21,120 Speaker 1: because it's turning on our bodies natural defenses that would 682 00:39:21,160 --> 00:39:23,880 Speaker 1: be laying idle if we didn't exercise or we gained 683 00:39:23,880 --> 00:39:26,960 Speaker 1: a lot of weight. And that's a breakthrough really because 684 00:39:27,000 --> 00:39:29,680 Speaker 1: we didn't know why exercise work. We didn't know why 685 00:39:29,719 --> 00:39:32,960 Speaker 1: fasting worked before. But what's key to this is that 686 00:39:33,360 --> 00:39:36,279 Speaker 1: all of these things that we do that invoke this 687 00:39:36,440 --> 00:39:40,880 Speaker 1: biological threat worked with the same process by turning on 688 00:39:40,960 --> 00:39:44,160 Speaker 1: these longevity defenses, which is really quite an amazing thing 689 00:39:44,239 --> 00:39:47,360 Speaker 1: to think about, especially because we first discovered this in 690 00:39:47,440 --> 00:39:51,279 Speaker 1: simple organisms like euston works. Then we're discovering are we 691 00:39:51,320 --> 00:39:55,600 Speaker 1: like with mice that a cycle of fasting seems to 692 00:39:55,600 --> 00:39:58,960 Speaker 1: have a substantial impact on how long they lived. You know, 693 00:39:58,960 --> 00:40:01,799 Speaker 1: I've read many papers in my life, and if there 694 00:40:01,840 --> 00:40:06,000 Speaker 1: was one thing I would say would really change people's lives, 695 00:40:06,080 --> 00:40:08,759 Speaker 1: it would be to eat less often. And I've done 696 00:40:08,800 --> 00:40:11,200 Speaker 1: that myself now, and so many people have done this, 697 00:40:11,239 --> 00:40:14,280 Speaker 1: and they say they feel better, they have more energy, 698 00:40:14,320 --> 00:40:17,480 Speaker 1: they can focus, and it's not surprising to me. You know, 699 00:40:17,520 --> 00:40:20,840 Speaker 1: without our longevity gene switched on, we're basically at the 700 00:40:20,920 --> 00:40:24,239 Speaker 1: mercy of entropy, and we lose our information over time. 701 00:40:24,280 --> 00:40:27,680 Speaker 1: We're basically falling apart. And the only way to counteract 702 00:40:27,680 --> 00:40:30,600 Speaker 1: that is to turn these defenses on or eventually, if 703 00:40:30,600 --> 00:40:34,399 Speaker 1: we're successful, to reset the body to a younger age. Well, 704 00:40:34,440 --> 00:40:38,719 Speaker 1: I'm going to encourage people to go to lifespanbook dot 705 00:40:38,760 --> 00:40:41,000 Speaker 1: com and to sign up. In fact, I'm going to 706 00:40:41,080 --> 00:40:44,600 Speaker 1: sign up. This has been fascinating. What you're doing is 707 00:40:44,640 --> 00:40:48,040 Speaker 1: truly going to help millions and millions of people. I 708 00:40:48,120 --> 00:40:50,840 Speaker 1: want to thank you for sharing with us your views 709 00:40:50,880 --> 00:40:54,000 Speaker 1: and the knowledge that you have acquired. Well, thanks me 710 00:40:54,120 --> 00:40:56,920 Speaker 1: for everything. You've done for science and for medicine and 711 00:40:57,120 --> 00:40:59,560 Speaker 1: for the country. It's been a pleasure being on. Thank 712 00:40:59,600 --> 00:41:04,120 Speaker 1: you again. Coming up, doctor near Bartolai, director of the 713 00:41:04,120 --> 00:41:07,400 Speaker 1: pauliff Glen Center for the Biology of Human Aging Research 714 00:41:07,680 --> 00:41:18,560 Speaker 1: and of the National Institutes of Health. Hi, this is 715 00:41:18,640 --> 00:41:22,239 Speaker 1: New English. If you've been enjoying my podcast, I want 716 00:41:22,239 --> 00:41:24,600 Speaker 1: to encourage you to sign up for my free twice 717 00:41:24,640 --> 00:41:29,440 Speaker 1: weekly column. In my column, I address events in news, politics, 718 00:41:29,920 --> 00:41:32,960 Speaker 1: or other areas of interest to me. It is intended 719 00:41:33,000 --> 00:41:34,920 Speaker 1: for those who want to be well informed on the 720 00:41:34,920 --> 00:41:38,319 Speaker 1: issues of the day as a listener of Newtsworld. You 721 00:41:38,320 --> 00:41:57,960 Speaker 1: can sign up from my free column at newtsworld dot com. 722 00:41:58,160 --> 00:42:01,720 Speaker 1: Here's doctor Near Bartela, director of the Polite Clan Center 723 00:42:02,000 --> 00:42:05,080 Speaker 1: for the Biology of Human Aging Research and on the 724 00:42:05,200 --> 00:42:09,400 Speaker 1: nationals to Its Health. We know that there's a biology 725 00:42:09,440 --> 00:42:12,480 Speaker 1: of aging, and if there's a biology of aging, it 726 00:42:12,480 --> 00:42:15,720 Speaker 1: means that we can do something about it. And indeed, 727 00:42:15,800 --> 00:42:20,480 Speaker 1: aging is a very flexible state and we can target it, 728 00:42:20,600 --> 00:42:23,319 Speaker 1: we can delay it, we can maybe stop it, and 729 00:42:23,400 --> 00:42:27,520 Speaker 1: in some cases we even reverse some manifestation of aging. 730 00:42:27,880 --> 00:42:30,200 Speaker 1: When I came into the biology of aging, and it's 731 00:42:30,200 --> 00:42:32,279 Speaker 1: a new science, so I was like one of the 732 00:42:32,400 --> 00:42:36,239 Speaker 1: first The one thing we all looked at is this 733 00:42:36,440 --> 00:42:40,480 Speaker 1: fascinating observation that if you take mice or rats, or 734 00:42:40,560 --> 00:42:46,080 Speaker 1: really any animal in the world, and you take brothers 735 00:42:46,360 --> 00:42:49,080 Speaker 1: into two groups, one group you give them to it 736 00:42:49,200 --> 00:42:51,759 Speaker 1: as much as they want, and the other group you 737 00:42:51,920 --> 00:42:55,200 Speaker 1: caloric restrict them. In the case of mice orret you 738 00:42:55,280 --> 00:42:58,480 Speaker 1: give them forty percent less, so sixty percent of what 739 00:42:58,560 --> 00:43:03,560 Speaker 1: their brothers are eating, they would actually leave forty percent longer. 740 00:43:03,640 --> 00:43:08,040 Speaker 1: But not only that, they would leave healthier for much longer. 741 00:43:08,719 --> 00:43:11,880 Speaker 1: What do you think is the mechanism which leads to 742 00:43:11,920 --> 00:43:15,879 Speaker 1: the impact of restricting calories? What is that triggering? There 743 00:43:15,880 --> 00:43:19,480 Speaker 1: are many mechanism that we know our targets for aging 744 00:43:19,600 --> 00:43:24,760 Speaker 1: that are intracellular. But I want to say something about 745 00:43:24,800 --> 00:43:28,840 Speaker 1: the experiment and how I look at it today. Because 746 00:43:28,880 --> 00:43:32,480 Speaker 1: of those experiments, people said, well, if I eat less 747 00:43:32,480 --> 00:43:37,880 Speaker 1: for breakfast and lunch and dinner, then I'm calorically restricted myself. 748 00:43:37,960 --> 00:43:41,759 Speaker 1: But that's not what we did. We actually gave all 749 00:43:41,800 --> 00:43:45,640 Speaker 1: the food in the morning to those hungry mice rats, 750 00:43:46,040 --> 00:43:48,719 Speaker 1: and they ate all the food that we gave them 751 00:43:48,719 --> 00:43:52,120 Speaker 1: within twenty minutes, so they were then fasting for twenty 752 00:43:52,160 --> 00:43:56,200 Speaker 1: three hours, and actually, if we start giving them the 753 00:43:56,320 --> 00:44:00,560 Speaker 1: food throughout the day, they're still thinner, but they don't 754 00:44:00,640 --> 00:44:05,839 Speaker 1: live longer. So it's not about the caloric restriction, it's 755 00:44:05,880 --> 00:44:11,880 Speaker 1: about the fasting. And that's why the most popular intervention 756 00:44:12,320 --> 00:44:16,239 Speaker 1: in the geoscience field. What I'm doing, for example, is 757 00:44:16,280 --> 00:44:20,680 Speaker 1: I'm doing what's called sixteen eight. I'm fasting for sixteen hours. 758 00:44:21,040 --> 00:44:25,080 Speaker 1: I eat dinner, and then I count sixteen hours and 759 00:44:25,160 --> 00:44:27,319 Speaker 1: that's when I'll have my next meal. But the good 760 00:44:27,320 --> 00:44:29,680 Speaker 1: news is I can have whatever I want for the 761 00:44:29,719 --> 00:44:33,840 Speaker 1: next eight hours. And this is really how we today 762 00:44:33,960 --> 00:44:38,640 Speaker 1: interpret the studies on caloric restriction. So you fast for 763 00:44:38,719 --> 00:44:41,239 Speaker 1: sixteen hours and then you can eat anything you want 764 00:44:41,280 --> 00:44:43,520 Speaker 1: to for eight hours, But then how does I get 765 00:44:43,600 --> 00:44:46,880 Speaker 1: you to a forty percent restriction. I don't really measure 766 00:44:46,880 --> 00:44:50,360 Speaker 1: the calories because what is really important is the period 767 00:44:50,360 --> 00:44:54,600 Speaker 1: of fasting and what happens during the fasting. It's less 768 00:44:54,680 --> 00:44:57,960 Speaker 1: important what I eat. And I think in a way 769 00:44:58,000 --> 00:45:01,200 Speaker 1: it's the good news because for some people, if you 770 00:45:01,320 --> 00:45:04,320 Speaker 1: send them on a three months diet, they can break 771 00:45:04,400 --> 00:45:07,879 Speaker 1: any day. But when you're fasting and you have an 772 00:45:07,880 --> 00:45:10,719 Speaker 1: hour to go, two hours to go, you'll just do it, 773 00:45:11,000 --> 00:45:13,400 Speaker 1: and then you know that you eat also whatever you want. 774 00:45:14,120 --> 00:45:17,400 Speaker 1: So that's how it works. There are two studies in 775 00:45:17,480 --> 00:45:20,719 Speaker 1: the last week that came out in good journals that 776 00:45:20,840 --> 00:45:26,719 Speaker 1: support the benefits, but we haven't yet determined exactly. The 777 00:45:26,880 --> 00:45:30,960 Speaker 1: timeline is twelve hours maybe enough. Maybe you eat breakfast 778 00:45:31,000 --> 00:45:35,560 Speaker 1: and dinner and that's enough. But skipping breakfast seems to 779 00:45:35,640 --> 00:45:39,839 Speaker 1: be an important thing for me, and I just see 780 00:45:39,880 --> 00:45:44,439 Speaker 1: the benefits of that on myself. You started talking about 781 00:45:44,440 --> 00:45:48,000 Speaker 1: working with animals, but you've also studied people and looking 782 00:45:48,040 --> 00:45:50,799 Speaker 1: at different patterns. What are the kind of people who 783 00:45:50,800 --> 00:45:54,800 Speaker 1: have very long lifespans? I think what we've done so 784 00:45:54,840 --> 00:45:58,760 Speaker 1: smartly in this new field of aging. We started looking 785 00:45:58,960 --> 00:46:03,719 Speaker 1: at animal the cleve loong and we try to understand 786 00:46:03,719 --> 00:46:07,040 Speaker 1: why they live long, and we actually discovered a lot 787 00:46:07,080 --> 00:46:09,920 Speaker 1: about aging. We still don't know everything about aging, but 788 00:46:10,000 --> 00:46:13,279 Speaker 1: we actually got an idea of how to start and 789 00:46:13,360 --> 00:46:17,520 Speaker 1: what to do. And when that started, I said, well, 790 00:46:18,239 --> 00:46:20,880 Speaker 1: you know, why don't we look at hundred years old. 791 00:46:20,920 --> 00:46:26,239 Speaker 1: I thought that maybe hundred years old their aging was delayed. 792 00:46:26,440 --> 00:46:32,120 Speaker 1: So let's distinct between the biological and chronological age of people. 793 00:46:32,760 --> 00:46:37,560 Speaker 1: Let's see why some people are accelerating their aging, and 794 00:46:37,800 --> 00:46:41,439 Speaker 1: some people are being so good for so long. And 795 00:46:41,480 --> 00:46:46,120 Speaker 1: that's when I decided to study centenarians and really their family. 796 00:46:47,400 --> 00:46:52,879 Speaker 1: The major thing that we found initially is that those 797 00:46:53,040 --> 00:46:55,879 Speaker 1: hundred years old, it's not that they got sick when 798 00:46:55,960 --> 00:47:01,640 Speaker 1: everybody else got sick. And now they if thirty years 799 00:47:01,640 --> 00:47:04,440 Speaker 1: sick and with disease and with poor quality of life. No, 800 00:47:05,200 --> 00:47:10,400 Speaker 1: their health spen and lifespin went together, so they lived 801 00:47:10,480 --> 00:47:15,120 Speaker 1: healthier for thirty years longer. In fact, in our control 802 00:47:15,239 --> 00:47:19,040 Speaker 1: group at age eighty, only ten percent didn't have an 803 00:47:19,040 --> 00:47:23,160 Speaker 1: age related disease. And here in our hundred year old group, 804 00:47:23,320 --> 00:47:26,040 Speaker 1: still thirty years over the age of one hundred, thirty 805 00:47:26,040 --> 00:47:29,680 Speaker 1: percent didn't have any age related This is some of 806 00:47:29,719 --> 00:47:34,160 Speaker 1: them are just dying in their sleep. So we kind 807 00:47:34,160 --> 00:47:38,040 Speaker 1: of have this group of people who prove to us 808 00:47:38,200 --> 00:47:43,759 Speaker 1: that aging is flexible, that aging can be slowed, and 809 00:47:43,840 --> 00:47:47,680 Speaker 1: that you can have much better life for much longer. 810 00:47:48,120 --> 00:47:51,799 Speaker 1: Does they send to me common patterns to the population 811 00:47:51,840 --> 00:47:56,319 Speaker 1: you're describing. Yes, we had three hypotheses basically, and the 812 00:47:56,360 --> 00:48:01,359 Speaker 1: first one is maybe they did what the doctors tell 813 00:48:01,480 --> 00:48:04,719 Speaker 1: us to do. Now, maybe they interacted with the environment, 814 00:48:05,640 --> 00:48:08,640 Speaker 1: and what I can say about those people. The group 815 00:48:08,719 --> 00:48:13,719 Speaker 1: that I have is that almost fifty percent of them 816 00:48:13,719 --> 00:48:16,840 Speaker 1: were overweight and obese, so they were not as a 817 00:48:16,880 --> 00:48:21,400 Speaker 1: group calorically restricting. Sixty percent of the men and thirty 818 00:48:21,400 --> 00:48:25,399 Speaker 1: percent of the women were heavy smoker. I have a 819 00:48:25,440 --> 00:48:29,160 Speaker 1: woman who died at one hundred and ten, and when 820 00:48:29,239 --> 00:48:32,160 Speaker 1: I met her when she was hundred years old, she 821 00:48:32,280 --> 00:48:35,280 Speaker 1: opened the door and she was smoking, and I said, 822 00:48:35,400 --> 00:48:38,200 Speaker 1: didn't your doctor ever tell you not to smoke? And 823 00:48:38,280 --> 00:48:41,840 Speaker 1: she said, all four doctors that told me not to smoke, 824 00:48:42,120 --> 00:48:45,879 Speaker 1: they're dead. Now. Only two percent of them were vegetarian. 825 00:48:46,400 --> 00:48:51,719 Speaker 1: Physical activity, even moderate like housework and bicycling less than 826 00:48:51,800 --> 00:48:58,440 Speaker 1: fifty percent. So those people actually didn't interact with the environment. 827 00:48:58,760 --> 00:49:03,040 Speaker 1: They had something else that protected them. So the next 828 00:49:03,360 --> 00:49:07,400 Speaker 1: hypothesis will if they didn't interact with the environment, what 829 00:49:07,600 --> 00:49:12,919 Speaker 1: are the protective biology that they have. And what we've done, 830 00:49:12,920 --> 00:49:17,799 Speaker 1: We've done extensive genetic studies in order to discover longevity 831 00:49:17,880 --> 00:49:21,440 Speaker 1: genes of the people you're studying. To what is sent 832 00:49:21,600 --> 00:49:25,520 Speaker 1: is that simply a genetic pattern that is unique and 833 00:49:25,680 --> 00:49:30,520 Speaker 1: not replicable for other people. While we think that aging 834 00:49:31,000 --> 00:49:35,440 Speaker 1: is really the environment is so important for aging or 835 00:49:35,480 --> 00:49:40,240 Speaker 1: for lifespan. We think it's twenty eighty, you know, twenty 836 00:49:40,400 --> 00:49:44,880 Speaker 1: genes and eighty is the environment. But with centenarians it flips. 837 00:49:45,040 --> 00:49:50,520 Speaker 1: We think that they are mainly genetics and much less 838 00:49:50,560 --> 00:49:54,560 Speaker 1: of the environment like I discovered. But I think the 839 00:49:54,760 --> 00:49:58,480 Speaker 1: important thing to know is when we're discovering longevity gene, 840 00:49:59,320 --> 00:50:03,719 Speaker 1: we're this governing mechanism that can be turned into drugs. 841 00:50:04,360 --> 00:50:08,520 Speaker 1: So the first two longevity genes that we discovered had 842 00:50:08,560 --> 00:50:13,200 Speaker 1: to do with the cholesterol metabolism. They actually increase the 843 00:50:13,280 --> 00:50:18,280 Speaker 1: good kind of cholesterol that's called HDL or high density lipoprotein, 844 00:50:19,040 --> 00:50:26,759 Speaker 1: and those two genes were actually a target for drug development, 845 00:50:27,440 --> 00:50:31,240 Speaker 1: but the FDA allow that when they require separate studies anyway, 846 00:50:31,800 --> 00:50:35,600 Speaker 1: So this is our challenge. Now, you have a disease 847 00:50:35,640 --> 00:50:38,920 Speaker 1: and you develop a drug, and the FDA approves the 848 00:50:39,040 --> 00:50:45,280 Speaker 1: drug for the certain disease, but aging is not an 849 00:50:45,360 --> 00:50:51,400 Speaker 1: indication of target for the FDA. And if aging is 850 00:50:51,440 --> 00:50:55,479 Speaker 1: not the indication, your healthcare provider doesn't have to pay 851 00:50:55,520 --> 00:50:58,759 Speaker 1: for a drug that will prevent your aging. And if 852 00:50:58,760 --> 00:51:03,160 Speaker 1: the healthcare doesn't, the pharmaceuticals are not going to jump 853 00:51:03,280 --> 00:51:06,879 Speaker 1: in and develop those drugs and better drugs and combination 854 00:51:06,920 --> 00:51:10,360 Speaker 1: of drugs so we can really increase the health spent. 855 00:51:11,239 --> 00:51:14,759 Speaker 1: And for that we and when I say we am 856 00:51:14,880 --> 00:51:19,000 Speaker 1: leading a bunch of scientists. We went to the FDA 857 00:51:19,160 --> 00:51:22,279 Speaker 1: and we went with a tool. And the tool is 858 00:51:22,320 --> 00:51:25,680 Speaker 1: a drug that's been sixty years out there that's called 859 00:51:25,760 --> 00:51:31,560 Speaker 1: metforming and used for diabetes. But it happens that metforming 860 00:51:32,320 --> 00:51:34,880 Speaker 1: is a drug that when you give to animals and 861 00:51:35,640 --> 00:51:38,960 Speaker 1: even to worms, okay, to all kinds of animals, they 862 00:51:38,960 --> 00:51:44,200 Speaker 1: would leave healthier and longer. So we came to the 863 00:51:44,360 --> 00:51:48,719 Speaker 1: FDA and we had two questions. One is what is 864 00:51:48,760 --> 00:51:51,439 Speaker 1: the indication going to be. We didn't want to call 865 00:51:51,600 --> 00:51:56,840 Speaker 1: aging a disease, because you know, there's agism. All elderly 866 00:51:56,880 --> 00:51:59,680 Speaker 1: people are being fired, they're not hired. Now we call 867 00:51:59,719 --> 00:52:02,440 Speaker 1: them sick, and not all of them are sick, you know, 868 00:52:02,440 --> 00:52:04,960 Speaker 1: and what will we do next with them? So we 869 00:52:05,000 --> 00:52:08,280 Speaker 1: didn't want to call aging a disease, and the FDA 870 00:52:08,400 --> 00:52:10,920 Speaker 1: didn't want to call an aging a disease. But we 871 00:52:11,000 --> 00:52:15,560 Speaker 1: agreed that we can actually delay a cluster of age 872 00:52:15,640 --> 00:52:19,560 Speaker 1: related diseases and this will be indication. We don't have 873 00:52:19,600 --> 00:52:23,279 Speaker 1: to call it aging, but we're going to delay diseases 874 00:52:23,320 --> 00:52:27,160 Speaker 1: an increased health spent. The second thing we asked the FDA, 875 00:52:27,200 --> 00:52:29,839 Speaker 1: We said, look, this is our plan. Tell us that 876 00:52:29,880 --> 00:52:32,280 Speaker 1: it's okay because we don't want to do this study, 877 00:52:32,280 --> 00:52:34,480 Speaker 1: and then you'll say you should have done something else. 878 00:52:34,880 --> 00:52:37,600 Speaker 1: So we made a huge progress with the FDA and 879 00:52:37,640 --> 00:52:41,200 Speaker 1: we're ready to launch the study to prove that aging 880 00:52:41,320 --> 00:52:46,120 Speaker 1: can be targeted. If aging is a reversible condition, how 881 00:52:46,160 --> 00:52:49,760 Speaker 1: would you describe it? Because that clearly breaks with the 882 00:52:49,840 --> 00:52:53,200 Speaker 1: way we have thought of aging for most of human history. 883 00:52:54,520 --> 00:52:59,800 Speaker 1: I know, I know, and believe me, it's very frustrating 884 00:53:00,600 --> 00:53:04,440 Speaker 1: for me to deal with it because it's so obvious. Look, 885 00:53:04,680 --> 00:53:08,160 Speaker 1: death is inevitable, okay, but aging the way it is 886 00:53:08,400 --> 00:53:11,560 Speaker 1: is not. You know, we're in a condition now that 887 00:53:11,600 --> 00:53:15,360 Speaker 1: we've improved many things, and most of us are getting 888 00:53:15,360 --> 00:53:18,399 Speaker 1: to be old, and then we are starting to accumulate 889 00:53:18,840 --> 00:53:23,600 Speaker 1: diseases and their medications and the side effect of the 890 00:53:23,680 --> 00:53:27,440 Speaker 1: medication and the interaction of the medication. This is impossible. 891 00:53:27,880 --> 00:53:31,239 Speaker 1: But this doesn't have to be that way, because we 892 00:53:31,360 --> 00:53:37,719 Speaker 1: can actually target aging which drives those diseases. And the 893 00:53:37,800 --> 00:53:41,360 Speaker 1: frustration is not only because of that, because we have 894 00:53:41,480 --> 00:53:46,120 Speaker 1: the knowledge and there's a whole industry that's developing those drugs. 895 00:53:46,200 --> 00:53:50,800 Speaker 1: But from a political point of view, what people don't 896 00:53:50,960 --> 00:53:55,359 Speaker 1: realize is that there's a longevity dividend. Let me go 897 00:53:55,480 --> 00:53:58,960 Speaker 1: back to my centenarians. I told you that my centenions 898 00:53:59,000 --> 00:54:04,160 Speaker 1: are healthy for thirty years longer. But really the amazing 899 00:54:04,280 --> 00:54:07,360 Speaker 1: thing is that they have a contraction of morbidity. What 900 00:54:07,560 --> 00:54:10,200 Speaker 1: is the contraction of morbidity? There are sick very little 901 00:54:10,239 --> 00:54:13,120 Speaker 1: time at the end of their life. Some of them, 902 00:54:13,160 --> 00:54:15,160 Speaker 1: as I said, don't wake up in the morning. Another 903 00:54:15,239 --> 00:54:18,920 Speaker 1: are sick you up to five months. The rest of 904 00:54:19,040 --> 00:54:22,360 Speaker 1: us who die at age eighty on average, we're sick 905 00:54:22,400 --> 00:54:25,359 Speaker 1: for the five to eight last years of our life. 906 00:54:26,800 --> 00:54:31,759 Speaker 1: The CDC out of Atlanta actually calculated and showed that 907 00:54:31,880 --> 00:54:35,120 Speaker 1: the medical cost in the last two years of life 908 00:54:35,360 --> 00:54:38,600 Speaker 1: of somebody who dies abt age of hundred is third 909 00:54:38,640 --> 00:54:42,600 Speaker 1: of those who die at age seventy. So there's a 910 00:54:42,800 --> 00:54:47,919 Speaker 1: huge longevity dividend. We calculated that by increasing health spin 911 00:54:47,960 --> 00:54:51,480 Speaker 1: and preventing all disease of aging even in two years, 912 00:54:51,960 --> 00:54:56,479 Speaker 1: there's a seven trillion dollars benefits to the economy. It's 913 00:54:56,520 --> 00:54:59,839 Speaker 1: something we have to do and we can do it. 914 00:55:00,040 --> 00:55:02,600 Speaker 1: So why isn't that a winnable as an argument on 915 00:55:02,719 --> 00:55:06,879 Speaker 1: the political front, and maybe maybe you have more insights. 916 00:55:07,000 --> 00:55:09,960 Speaker 1: But when I went to the Senate and I met 917 00:55:10,040 --> 00:55:15,600 Speaker 1: senators and things, they're usually moved by somebody young who 918 00:55:15,680 --> 00:55:20,200 Speaker 1: dies from a terrible disease more than with aging that 919 00:55:20,360 --> 00:55:24,760 Speaker 1: actually affects them even more. Even the air p told 920 00:55:24,840 --> 00:55:29,040 Speaker 1: me that their clients are never talking with them about 921 00:55:29,080 --> 00:55:32,880 Speaker 1: their health spend. Well, if you ask them, they'll tell 922 00:55:32,920 --> 00:55:35,160 Speaker 1: you that they would like to be healthier as they 923 00:55:35,200 --> 00:55:40,960 Speaker 1: grow older. But it's somehow it doesn't track. So we're 924 00:55:41,040 --> 00:55:46,680 Speaker 1: going through regulation. We're actually trying to write with a 925 00:55:46,800 --> 00:55:52,360 Speaker 1: law firm, an Act of Congress to allow targeting agings. 926 00:55:52,640 --> 00:55:56,279 Speaker 1: It's not science fiction, it's science now. We know how 927 00:55:56,320 --> 00:55:59,080 Speaker 1: to do it in a variety of animals, and so 928 00:55:59,120 --> 00:56:03,600 Speaker 1: we're frustrated that there's nothing up from top that help 929 00:56:03,719 --> 00:56:07,560 Speaker 1: us from something that can be such a great solution 930 00:56:07,719 --> 00:56:10,839 Speaker 1: for our health system. If you can get the ariage 931 00:56:10,880 --> 00:56:15,239 Speaker 1: American understand three things about healthy aging, what would they be. 932 00:56:16,320 --> 00:56:20,480 Speaker 1: I think the major thing that people can do that 933 00:56:20,640 --> 00:56:26,360 Speaker 1: had the most impact now is to exercise. Exercise is 934 00:56:26,400 --> 00:56:32,239 Speaker 1: the major thing at every age, every sex exercise has benefits. 935 00:56:32,280 --> 00:56:36,040 Speaker 1: So this is number one way to deal with aging. 936 00:56:37,080 --> 00:56:42,840 Speaker 1: Number two is the nutrition. Obesity should be avoided. The 937 00:56:42,880 --> 00:56:48,720 Speaker 1: best nutrition from my studies is intermittent fasting. Just skip 938 00:56:48,760 --> 00:56:52,200 Speaker 1: one of your meals a day, preferably breakfast, try to 939 00:56:52,239 --> 00:56:55,759 Speaker 1: get sixteen hours fasting, and there will be a lot 940 00:56:55,800 --> 00:57:01,759 Speaker 1: of improvement by that. The third thing is going to 941 00:57:01,800 --> 00:57:05,440 Speaker 1: be drugs. I'm not selling any of those drugs. I 942 00:57:05,480 --> 00:57:08,680 Speaker 1: want to do the study first, but I want people 943 00:57:08,800 --> 00:57:12,279 Speaker 1: to know that there are drugs available, and I'll tell 944 00:57:12,320 --> 00:57:16,960 Speaker 1: you the drugs that are available are important, not only 945 00:57:17,040 --> 00:57:21,560 Speaker 1: for aging. When you have something like matt Foreman, which 946 00:57:21,600 --> 00:57:25,200 Speaker 1: has been widely used now for what sixty years, is 947 00:57:25,200 --> 00:57:28,400 Speaker 1: there a reason somebody should not take it. We need 948 00:57:28,480 --> 00:57:32,280 Speaker 1: to do the clinical trial and we don't want to fail. 949 00:57:32,360 --> 00:57:35,320 Speaker 1: We don't want to kill anyone on the way in 950 00:57:35,480 --> 00:57:38,600 Speaker 1: order to say yes, that's what you should do. That's 951 00:57:38,600 --> 00:57:40,800 Speaker 1: what everybody should do. And by the way, mat Forman 952 00:57:40,920 --> 00:57:43,880 Speaker 1: is the cheapest drug in the formula in the formula 953 00:57:44,080 --> 00:57:48,120 Speaker 1: in the United States, it's costs nothing. But if you're 954 00:57:48,360 --> 00:57:52,760 Speaker 1: asking me, can it be repurpose If I think that 955 00:57:52,880 --> 00:57:58,280 Speaker 1: people are desperate because they're aging rapidly, is this something 956 00:57:58,360 --> 00:58:02,240 Speaker 1: the doctors can prescribe. The answer is yes, and I'll 957 00:58:02,240 --> 00:58:05,400 Speaker 1: tell you there's tons of doctors that are prescribing metforming 958 00:58:05,480 --> 00:58:08,200 Speaker 1: for everyone. I want people to understand that this is 959 00:58:08,240 --> 00:58:11,440 Speaker 1: a science and we're going to prove it. One of 960 00:58:11,480 --> 00:58:14,840 Speaker 1: the really interesting things has studied with two hundred thousand 961 00:58:14,880 --> 00:58:19,480 Speaker 1: people in the UK that showed the people with medforming, 962 00:58:19,520 --> 00:58:23,760 Speaker 1: those are seventy eight thousand people on medforming had lower 963 00:58:24,080 --> 00:58:30,880 Speaker 1: mortality than people without diabetes that are matching same doctors, 964 00:58:30,920 --> 00:58:35,360 Speaker 1: same pharmacy, same everything. And the people were on medforming 965 00:58:35,400 --> 00:58:38,600 Speaker 1: were diabetic, they were more obese, they're more sick to 966 00:58:38,640 --> 00:58:42,439 Speaker 1: start with, yet they lived longer. So if you take 967 00:58:42,600 --> 00:58:46,880 Speaker 1: all those studies together, it kind of tells you, you know, 968 00:58:47,000 --> 00:58:51,320 Speaker 1: then why don't we take all those diseases and cluster 969 00:58:51,440 --> 00:58:54,480 Speaker 1: them together and test them on sixty five year old 970 00:58:55,040 --> 00:58:58,400 Speaker 1: and look at how we move all those diseases by 971 00:58:58,400 --> 00:59:01,520 Speaker 1: two years. That's what we're trying to do to show 972 00:59:01,560 --> 00:59:05,160 Speaker 1: the concept that really one drug can do it, and 973 00:59:05,200 --> 00:59:09,480 Speaker 1: then we're home free to start doing combination and developing 974 00:59:09,560 --> 00:59:13,800 Speaker 1: better drugs. Look, life expectancy of us as human species 975 00:59:13,920 --> 00:59:16,800 Speaker 1: is about one hundred and fifteen years, and we die 976 00:59:16,840 --> 00:59:20,840 Speaker 1: before the age of eighty, so those thirty five years 977 00:59:21,040 --> 00:59:24,480 Speaker 1: are low hanging fruit in my mind. We can actually 978 00:59:25,040 --> 00:59:29,080 Speaker 1: make a nice effort to increase health spend and decrease 979 00:59:29,480 --> 00:59:33,720 Speaker 1: and contract morbidity. For us. There are eight hallmarks of 980 00:59:33,840 --> 00:59:38,720 Speaker 1: aging from a biological perspective, and each of those hallmark 981 00:59:39,320 --> 00:59:41,920 Speaker 1: has been shown that if you target that, you extend 982 00:59:42,000 --> 00:59:47,360 Speaker 1: health spend. The interesting thing is they're all interconnected. In 983 00:59:47,360 --> 00:59:50,480 Speaker 1: other words, you can target one hallmark and it's going 984 00:59:50,520 --> 00:59:54,920 Speaker 1: to improve other, which is really fascinating. So it's not 985 00:59:55,040 --> 00:59:59,120 Speaker 1: that we even have to develop drugs for every one 986 00:59:59,200 --> 01:00:02,320 Speaker 1: of them. We can do two to three hallmarks and 987 01:00:02,360 --> 01:00:07,000 Speaker 1: we're going to get a really nice effect on health spend. 988 01:00:07,680 --> 01:00:10,000 Speaker 1: I would like to see us have a national project 989 01:00:10,240 --> 01:00:15,520 Speaker 1: to develop very dramatic breakthroughs in aging. So this has 990 01:00:15,560 --> 01:00:20,720 Speaker 1: been very helpful. I think this project is very mature. 991 01:00:20,800 --> 01:00:23,960 Speaker 1: It's really ready. We're just waiting for the funding. It 992 01:00:24,040 --> 01:00:30,520 Speaker 1: will be great to launch it. I hope that after 993 01:00:30,520 --> 01:00:33,600 Speaker 1: listening to these two great pioneers, you'll agree with me 994 01:00:34,120 --> 01:00:36,840 Speaker 1: that the research being done on aging is just amazing. 995 01:00:37,200 --> 01:00:39,040 Speaker 1: And frankly, as I get older, I get a lot 996 01:00:39,080 --> 01:00:42,640 Speaker 1: more interested in research on aging. So I can assure 997 01:00:42,680 --> 01:00:45,680 Speaker 1: you that we're going to be tracking with them, finding 998 01:00:46,000 --> 01:00:49,960 Speaker 1: their peers, people who are also doing extraordinary work, and 999 01:00:50,040 --> 01:00:52,680 Speaker 1: over the next few months we're going to dedicate several 1000 01:00:52,720 --> 01:00:56,240 Speaker 1: podcasts to this whole challenging area, because, after all, if 1001 01:00:56,280 --> 01:00:58,920 Speaker 1: you could literally get to a point where you are 1002 01:00:59,040 --> 01:01:02,880 Speaker 1: reversing aging, you just change everything. Though we've come to 1003 01:01:02,880 --> 01:01:05,800 Speaker 1: expect about things, and it turns out, ironically that if 1004 01:01:05,840 --> 01:01:08,920 Speaker 1: you live a long time and you live relatively healthily, 1005 01:01:09,240 --> 01:01:12,640 Speaker 1: you die really inexpensively. So the best way to solve 1006 01:01:12,680 --> 01:01:15,800 Speaker 1: any challenge of Medicare funding is to keep people alive 1007 01:01:15,840 --> 01:01:19,040 Speaker 1: and healthy, and then they become just dramatically less expensive. 1008 01:01:19,400 --> 01:01:22,080 Speaker 1: It's amazing, it's true, and I think you're going to 1009 01:01:22,120 --> 01:01:25,040 Speaker 1: find with these kinds of scientists. These are world class 1010 01:01:25,040 --> 01:01:33,120 Speaker 1: scientists doing world class research. You can read more about 1011 01:01:33,120 --> 01:01:36,320 Speaker 1: the research the National Institutes of Health is doing around 1012 01:01:36,320 --> 01:01:39,640 Speaker 1: aging and they'll see an excerpt of doctor David Sinclair's 1013 01:01:39,640 --> 01:01:42,640 Speaker 1: book A Life Spent, Why We Age and Why We 1014 01:01:42,720 --> 01:01:46,640 Speaker 1: Don't Have To on our show page at newtsworld dot com. 1015 01:01:46,840 --> 01:01:50,280 Speaker 1: Newts World is produced by Westwood One. Our executive producer 1016 01:01:50,320 --> 01:01:53,640 Speaker 1: is Debbie Myers and our producer is Gornsey Slow. Our 1017 01:01:53,760 --> 01:01:57,160 Speaker 1: editor is Robert Borowski, and our researcher is Rachel Peterson. 1018 01:01:57,920 --> 01:02:01,520 Speaker 1: Our guest book erst Ham Racoleman. The artwork for the 1019 01:02:01,560 --> 01:02:05,000 Speaker 1: show was created by Steve Penley. The music was composed 1020 01:02:05,000 --> 01:02:08,080 Speaker 1: by Joey Salvia Special thanks to the team of English 1021 01:02:08,120 --> 01:02:11,840 Speaker 1: three sixty and Westwood One's John Wardock and Robert Mothers. 1022 01:02:12,400 --> 01:02:16,080 Speaker 1: Please email me with your comments at Newton newtsworld dot com. 1023 01:02:16,120 --> 01:02:18,600 Speaker 1: If you've been enjoying Newtsworld, I hope you'll go to 1024 01:02:18,640 --> 01:02:21,520 Speaker 1: Apple Podcast and both rate us with five stars and 1025 01:02:21,640 --> 01:02:24,600 Speaker 1: give us a review. Swathers can learn what it's all about. 1026 01:02:25,320 --> 01:02:38,320 Speaker 1: I'm new gingwish. This is Newtsworld, the Westwood One podcast Network.