1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:02,400 Speaker 1: Too Much Information is a production of My Heart Radio. 2 00:00:09,360 --> 00:00:12,200 Speaker 1: Hello everyone, and welcome to Too Much Information, the show 3 00:00:12,240 --> 00:00:15,080 Speaker 1: that brings you the secret histories and little known, fascinating 4 00:00:15,120 --> 00:00:19,040 Speaker 1: facts and figures behind your favorite movies, music, TV shows 5 00:00:19,120 --> 00:00:22,599 Speaker 1: and more. We are your two major dudes of minutia. 6 00:00:23,600 --> 00:00:27,360 Speaker 1: I'm Alice Tigel because any major dude will tell you, 7 00:00:28,040 --> 00:00:31,400 Speaker 1: and we are those major dudes. That's one of the 8 00:00:31,440 --> 00:00:33,800 Speaker 1: best ones yet. I am Jordan Broun Tog and I 9 00:00:33,840 --> 00:00:37,000 Speaker 1: am floored by that. I just trying to think of 10 00:00:37,000 --> 00:00:39,720 Speaker 1: how many Steely Dan references I could cram into this. 11 00:00:40,320 --> 00:00:46,760 Speaker 1: Um much likely you owe the charmer under me. I 12 00:00:46,760 --> 00:00:49,320 Speaker 1: don't know. We could have gone with kings there, we 13 00:00:49,360 --> 00:00:51,080 Speaker 1: could have gone with dirty works. I guess all my 14 00:00:51,120 --> 00:00:55,440 Speaker 1: references are very um can't buy a thrill heavy? Oh yeah, 15 00:00:55,560 --> 00:00:59,920 Speaker 1: bodhy satvas of of boring facts. Wow, that's okay, Wait, 16 00:01:00,360 --> 00:01:04,280 Speaker 1: punch that one in. That's also very good. Well, folks, 17 00:01:04,360 --> 00:01:06,800 Speaker 1: as you may have greened from that preamble, we are 18 00:01:06,880 --> 00:01:09,520 Speaker 1: talking about one of the best albums from one of 19 00:01:09,560 --> 00:01:14,080 Speaker 1: the best bands of a very specific ilk, A truly 20 00:01:14,200 --> 00:01:19,240 Speaker 1: high water mark of musicianship, songwriting, craft and studio production 21 00:01:19,680 --> 00:01:22,520 Speaker 1: from a band who named themselves after a sex toy 22 00:01:22,880 --> 00:01:26,560 Speaker 1: in Naked Lunch. That's right, folks, we're talking about Steely 23 00:01:26,680 --> 00:01:30,640 Speaker 1: Dan's Asia. I personally love Steely Dan. Took me a 24 00:01:30,680 --> 00:01:33,720 Speaker 1: long time to do it, though, kind of verboten in 25 00:01:33,800 --> 00:01:39,240 Speaker 1: the punk rock circles that I cut my proverbial teeth in. Um. 26 00:01:39,319 --> 00:01:42,600 Speaker 1: This is like a third hand story. There's this guy 27 00:01:42,600 --> 00:01:45,520 Speaker 1: in a record shop in Brooklyn. Shout out to human 28 00:01:45,560 --> 00:01:49,080 Speaker 1: Head Records. Everyone, if you're in New York, Human or 29 00:01:49,120 --> 00:01:52,280 Speaker 1: check them out on discos. I think they're also on discogs. Anyway, 30 00:01:52,360 --> 00:01:54,400 Speaker 1: this guy told me this story about he had a 31 00:01:54,440 --> 00:01:58,840 Speaker 1: friend of his. I guess who would um go into 32 00:01:58,880 --> 00:02:03,120 Speaker 1: record stores by Steely Dan records. I guess I can't 33 00:02:03,120 --> 00:02:04,640 Speaker 1: buy a thriller one of the ones that was like 34 00:02:04,920 --> 00:02:07,760 Speaker 1: cheaper before, like the vinyl boom and you know, everything 35 00:02:07,800 --> 00:02:11,200 Speaker 1: costs now, but like back when you could get Steely 36 00:02:11,240 --> 00:02:13,480 Speaker 1: Dan records for like three to five dollars, and he 37 00:02:13,480 --> 00:02:16,320 Speaker 1: would pay for them at the counter, pull them out 38 00:02:16,320 --> 00:02:19,360 Speaker 1: of sleeve, break them in half, and leave them on 39 00:02:19,400 --> 00:02:22,680 Speaker 1: the counter and walk out of the store. So that 40 00:02:22,800 --> 00:02:29,920 Speaker 1: is the prevailing mood how people view Yep, that was 41 00:02:29,960 --> 00:02:33,160 Speaker 1: the that was the mood. But I mean, that's horrifying 42 00:02:33,200 --> 00:02:36,560 Speaker 1: you frankly, I mean, well, now I'm hook line and sinker. 43 00:02:36,919 --> 00:02:41,760 Speaker 1: You know, the jazz nerd musicianship and the laser focused 44 00:02:41,840 --> 00:02:46,640 Speaker 1: production and songwriting are just the perfect foil to the 45 00:02:46,760 --> 00:02:53,240 Speaker 1: densely literate and missing thropic. They're so mean fake, it 46 00:02:53,360 --> 00:02:57,160 Speaker 1: is so so mean. And you know, the discerning too 47 00:02:57,240 --> 00:02:59,800 Speaker 1: much information listener will pick up a thread that I 48 00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:03,800 Speaker 1: of about being just heinously bitter towards like being a 49 00:03:03,880 --> 00:03:08,280 Speaker 1: musician in late stage capitalism where there's no damn money 50 00:03:08,400 --> 00:03:11,720 Speaker 1: and no resources to do anything, and and me and 51 00:03:11,760 --> 00:03:13,760 Speaker 1: the other hand who played bass in your band just 52 00:03:13,800 --> 00:03:17,519 Speaker 1: happy to be there. Well yeah, I mean, but but 53 00:03:17,639 --> 00:03:19,919 Speaker 1: for some reason, like where I get mad at like 54 00:03:20,000 --> 00:03:23,360 Speaker 1: David Crosby for being like, I'm blew through seventy million 55 00:03:23,440 --> 00:03:26,200 Speaker 1: dollars in the like the eighties and now I'm piste off. 56 00:03:26,240 --> 00:03:28,560 Speaker 1: I don't have any money like that rankles me. But 57 00:03:28,720 --> 00:03:32,920 Speaker 1: for some reason, Steely Dan, I'm like, it's perfectly cool 58 00:03:33,000 --> 00:03:38,040 Speaker 1: that you spent a week searching for one guitar solo 59 00:03:38,640 --> 00:03:42,840 Speaker 1: while burning through l a's top guitarists and just telling 60 00:03:42,840 --> 00:03:47,600 Speaker 1: them nope, not it next like that's hilarious to me. 61 00:03:47,760 --> 00:03:50,080 Speaker 1: No one will ever get to make records like that again, 62 00:03:50,400 --> 00:03:52,120 Speaker 1: I guess, I guess maybe you could do it in 63 00:03:52,160 --> 00:03:54,840 Speaker 1: your in your living room if you're not special care 64 00:03:54,880 --> 00:03:59,280 Speaker 1: about making friends, I mean like Capital Studios, Like you're like, yep, 65 00:03:59,800 --> 00:04:05,120 Speaker 1: they just costing us five dollars a day. Well yeah, yeah, 66 00:04:05,160 --> 00:04:07,520 Speaker 1: I was gonna say, yeah, I don't know, I trusted 67 00:04:07,600 --> 00:04:12,760 Speaker 1: for inflation. Uh what about you, buddy. I just I'm 68 00:04:12,840 --> 00:04:14,920 Speaker 1: stunned that there was ever a pier when you weren't 69 00:04:14,920 --> 00:04:17,480 Speaker 1: a massive Steely Dan devotee. I mean, it's a couple 70 00:04:17,560 --> 00:04:19,720 Speaker 1: of jazz dorks with chips on their shoulders and an 71 00:04:19,760 --> 00:04:22,640 Speaker 1: unlimited budget. I mean that just seems like I just 72 00:04:22,680 --> 00:04:25,360 Speaker 1: assumed you were jealous of anything. I mean, jeezus, Well, yeah, 73 00:04:25,360 --> 00:04:29,279 Speaker 1: it's that. It's very much that good. I loved Steely 74 00:04:29,360 --> 00:04:32,680 Speaker 1: Dan since I was in middle school, which, as you 75 00:04:32,720 --> 00:04:36,279 Speaker 1: can imagine, it may be immensely popular in two thousand one. Um. 76 00:04:36,680 --> 00:04:39,400 Speaker 1: I yeah, I think I heard um reeling in the 77 00:04:39,480 --> 00:04:41,719 Speaker 1: years on like old these radio, and that led me 78 00:04:41,760 --> 00:04:44,359 Speaker 1: to check out their greatest hits and then do it 79 00:04:44,400 --> 00:04:47,680 Speaker 1: again pretty constant. Yeah, yeah, like the war Horses, and 80 00:04:47,720 --> 00:04:50,240 Speaker 1: then going to their greatest hits and then going through 81 00:04:50,240 --> 00:04:52,560 Speaker 1: my dad's record collection at that point and seeing that 82 00:04:52,640 --> 00:04:55,320 Speaker 1: he had most of the records, and oh, yeah, I 83 00:04:55,400 --> 00:04:58,360 Speaker 1: love this stuff so much. I mean I remember listening 84 00:04:58,400 --> 00:05:01,680 Speaker 1: to kids Charlemagne and Deacon Blue those or something and thinking, oh, like, 85 00:05:01,760 --> 00:05:04,800 Speaker 1: this is what perfect music sounds like. I you know, 86 00:05:05,080 --> 00:05:07,279 Speaker 1: it was incredible. I gotta say, as I got older, 87 00:05:07,320 --> 00:05:11,160 Speaker 1: the precision almost started to grade on me, ever so slightly. 88 00:05:11,200 --> 00:05:13,880 Speaker 1: And I feel like that's a common criticism for Steely 89 00:05:13,960 --> 00:05:18,039 Speaker 1: Dan's detractors. It's almost sterile, Yeah, exactly. That's why I 90 00:05:18,160 --> 00:05:25,560 Speaker 1: can buy it through, because that's when they're like young andy, Yeah, 91 00:05:25,600 --> 00:05:27,839 Speaker 1: my really, My only knock against them is that it's 92 00:05:27,839 --> 00:05:29,960 Speaker 1: just the sterility. And I mean this is not a 93 00:05:29,960 --> 00:05:32,800 Speaker 1: new observation. I think there's a New York Times critic 94 00:05:32,880 --> 00:05:35,839 Speaker 1: Robert Palmer who said that Steely Dan's music sounded like 95 00:05:35,880 --> 00:05:38,720 Speaker 1: it had been recorded in a hospital ward, which is 96 00:05:38,760 --> 00:05:41,760 Speaker 1: a great disc Asia in particular, I think it's just 97 00:05:41,800 --> 00:05:44,560 Speaker 1: so smooth and clear that I get sometimes kind of 98 00:05:44,560 --> 00:05:47,400 Speaker 1: a bit of the Uncanny Valley vibe from it, which 99 00:05:47,440 --> 00:05:51,839 Speaker 1: is somewhat offset by Donald Fagan's voice. And it's hilariously 100 00:05:51,920 --> 00:05:55,560 Speaker 1: specific lyrics which I feel like, oh, underappreciated, way too often. 101 00:05:55,600 --> 00:05:58,600 Speaker 1: We'll talk about them in this episode. Um, I'm reminded 102 00:05:58,600 --> 00:06:00,960 Speaker 1: of this quote from Roger dal Treat, which he says 103 00:06:01,200 --> 00:06:03,960 Speaker 1: in like basically every documentary that he's a talking head, 104 00:06:04,000 --> 00:06:06,559 Speaker 1: and um, it just sums up his approach to music. 105 00:06:06,600 --> 00:06:08,839 Speaker 1: Give me a bum note and a bead of sweat 106 00:06:08,920 --> 00:06:11,960 Speaker 1: any day. And obviously I love Steely Dan and have 107 00:06:12,080 --> 00:06:14,119 Speaker 1: for many years. But sometimes I do have the sense 108 00:06:14,200 --> 00:06:18,760 Speaker 1: that you don't hear the sweat, although it's obviously there again, 109 00:06:18,800 --> 00:06:21,159 Speaker 1: like you said, spending a week to cycle through all 110 00:06:21,200 --> 00:06:23,279 Speaker 1: the top session guitarists in l A just a nail 111 00:06:23,400 --> 00:06:27,800 Speaker 1: single solo, But more often I hear the cocaine. Um, 112 00:06:27,839 --> 00:06:29,719 Speaker 1: I mean I just assumed that they're gacked out of 113 00:06:29,720 --> 00:06:31,480 Speaker 1: their minds in this era. I actually don't know much 114 00:06:31,520 --> 00:06:34,480 Speaker 1: about their Well. I think that their producer did say 115 00:06:34,480 --> 00:06:38,360 Speaker 1: that it was a drug free zone, so I don't know. Well, 116 00:06:38,400 --> 00:06:41,320 Speaker 1: I think I think Fagin at one point talks about 117 00:06:41,600 --> 00:06:44,680 Speaker 1: I think the biggest stress on their like partnership was 118 00:06:45,680 --> 00:06:49,720 Speaker 1: Walter Becker uh opioids. I thought, I forget what he 119 00:06:49,960 --> 00:06:53,320 Speaker 1: struggled with substance abuse during the show era I don't 120 00:06:53,320 --> 00:06:58,040 Speaker 1: know what I was reportedly heroin his girlfriend overdosed in 121 00:06:58,080 --> 00:07:02,200 Speaker 1: their apartment. Yeah, good lord. He was hit by a 122 00:07:02,279 --> 00:07:05,960 Speaker 1: taxi in nineteen nine? Was that what started it? Did 123 00:07:06,000 --> 00:07:11,840 Speaker 1: he have painkillers for recovering from? What's wild? Damn? Anyway? Well, 124 00:07:12,000 --> 00:07:16,960 Speaker 1: from the mind boggling array of twentieth century music royalty 125 00:07:17,160 --> 00:07:19,840 Speaker 1: involved in these sessions, to the amount of days the 126 00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:24,400 Speaker 1: vocal is spent perfecting a single two word phrase on 127 00:07:24,480 --> 00:07:28,440 Speaker 1: this record, to Asia's surprising second life as a treasure 128 00:07:28,480 --> 00:07:31,920 Speaker 1: trove of hip hop samples. Here's everything you didn't know 129 00:07:32,080 --> 00:07:43,360 Speaker 1: about Steely Dan's Asia Asia Jin Asia Jin like origin 130 00:07:44,320 --> 00:07:50,680 Speaker 1: m h anything there? Yes, and talking about Steely Dan, 131 00:07:50,800 --> 00:07:53,680 Speaker 1: we are yes Dan talking about Steely Dan. We're really 132 00:07:53,720 --> 00:07:57,560 Speaker 1: talking about the partnership between guitarist Walter Becker and singer 133 00:07:57,640 --> 00:08:01,080 Speaker 1: keyboardist Donald Fagin. Becker and Fagan played together in a 134 00:08:01,120 --> 00:08:04,760 Speaker 1: variety of bands while at Bard College in Annandale on Hudson, 135 00:08:04,760 --> 00:08:07,280 Speaker 1: New York, one of which was called the Bad Rock 136 00:08:07,360 --> 00:08:12,880 Speaker 1: Group and Chevy Chase on drums. There's this amazing Rolling 137 00:08:12,880 --> 00:08:18,360 Speaker 1: Stone profile from seven by Cameron Crowe in Rolling Stone, 138 00:08:19,360 --> 00:08:22,280 Speaker 1: and he asked him about Chevy Chase, and Don Fagan 139 00:08:22,360 --> 00:08:26,840 Speaker 1: just says, we don't remember him, which begins one of 140 00:08:26,880 --> 00:08:29,560 Speaker 1: the many through lines of this episode, which is Donald 141 00:08:29,600 --> 00:08:32,880 Speaker 1: Fagan being mean to people in the most subtle way. 142 00:08:32,920 --> 00:08:35,840 Speaker 1: They later moved to Los Angeles staff writing for ABC 143 00:08:36,120 --> 00:08:39,480 Speaker 1: Dunhill Records, and then you know they just you mentioned 144 00:08:39,480 --> 00:08:41,160 Speaker 1: earlier that they had formed as a live band. They 145 00:08:41,280 --> 00:08:44,520 Speaker 1: discard the band and they begin this habit of just 146 00:08:44,559 --> 00:08:47,840 Speaker 1: being like, well, who are the best people at these 147 00:08:47,880 --> 00:08:50,920 Speaker 1: respective instruments in the country, and how can we get 148 00:08:50,960 --> 00:08:55,880 Speaker 1: them onto this record and break their spirits. It's very 149 00:08:55,920 --> 00:08:58,600 Speaker 1: Phil Specter esque when he would just have people play 150 00:08:58,640 --> 00:09:01,720 Speaker 1: for hours and hours and hours to break down any 151 00:09:01,960 --> 00:09:08,080 Speaker 1: shred of individuality. And they're playing, Yeah, I'm just imagining 152 00:09:08,160 --> 00:09:11,800 Speaker 1: hardly army now in the studio being like, damn it, maggot, 153 00:09:13,240 --> 00:09:16,480 Speaker 1: take that solo again and lean last song and mix 154 00:09:16,520 --> 00:09:23,320 Speaker 1: a lady tonality you've been samp just it's a flat seven, 155 00:09:23,400 --> 00:09:28,079 Speaker 1: flat nine maggot um. Anyway, they wrote a song for 156 00:09:28,240 --> 00:09:30,719 Speaker 1: Barbara Streisen that came out before Can't Buy a Throw 157 00:09:30,800 --> 00:09:33,400 Speaker 1: came out before any of their records. I mean to Shine. 158 00:09:33,559 --> 00:09:38,440 Speaker 1: Do you know that you strike me as a Streisan guy. Yeah, yeah, 159 00:09:38,480 --> 00:09:43,560 Speaker 1: that was uncalled for Enemy of the Pod Barbara Streisen. 160 00:09:44,040 --> 00:09:48,000 Speaker 1: Two is Can't Buy a Thrill, which is just jam 161 00:09:48,080 --> 00:09:50,960 Speaker 1: packet bangers. You've got to do it again, dirty work, 162 00:09:51,120 --> 00:09:54,000 Speaker 1: King's Reeling in the years, Brooklyn's the charmer under Me 163 00:09:54,320 --> 00:09:59,040 Speaker 1: that record establishes them is just this incredible songwriting team. Um. 164 00:09:59,200 --> 00:10:04,040 Speaker 1: They were able to just sculpt bands, shape bend bands 165 00:10:04,080 --> 00:10:07,240 Speaker 1: to their will. Um. And one of the biggest I 166 00:10:07,240 --> 00:10:09,240 Speaker 1: don't know if he's unsung, but one of the biggest 167 00:10:09,280 --> 00:10:11,840 Speaker 1: here is is this founding member Denny Diaz on guitar, 168 00:10:12,000 --> 00:10:14,400 Speaker 1: who technically was one of the founding members. He put 169 00:10:14,400 --> 00:10:17,840 Speaker 1: an ad nineteen seventy in the Village Voice reading looking 170 00:10:17,880 --> 00:10:22,640 Speaker 1: for keyboardist and bassist. Must have jazz chops, bulls need 171 00:10:22,720 --> 00:10:29,120 Speaker 1: not apply. Yeah right. Also for on this time is 172 00:10:29,240 --> 00:10:34,160 Speaker 1: Jeff Skunk Baxter, just one of the most tremendously facial 173 00:10:34,240 --> 00:10:37,520 Speaker 1: haired guitarists of this time and also a missile defense 174 00:10:37,640 --> 00:10:45,880 Speaker 1: contractor for the government. I love that so much afterwards. Yeah, 175 00:10:46,120 --> 00:10:48,120 Speaker 1: it's like if Michael McDonald was like a c I, 176 00:10:48,200 --> 00:10:55,800 Speaker 1: a spook, like destabilizing South American governments. Just garrett ing 177 00:10:56,520 --> 00:11:00,439 Speaker 1: Banana Republic dictators and being like, oh, I'm just sort 178 00:11:00,480 --> 00:11:03,400 Speaker 1: of amazed that anybody in the music industry could get 179 00:11:03,600 --> 00:11:09,040 Speaker 1: security clearance and pass a background show, right, Like, Yeah, 180 00:11:09,080 --> 00:11:10,920 Speaker 1: I gotta gush about Reel and in the Years That 181 00:11:11,040 --> 00:11:15,560 Speaker 1: solo by Elliott Randall, uh is just incredible. According to 182 00:11:15,760 --> 00:11:18,000 Speaker 1: I forgot if it was Becker or Fagan, there was 183 00:11:18,040 --> 00:11:20,600 Speaker 1: an even better one that he did before the tape 184 00:11:20,760 --> 00:11:24,839 Speaker 1: was rolling. Interesting. Yeah, I mean, it's it's perfect, it's perfect. 185 00:11:24,880 --> 00:11:29,360 Speaker 1: It's notably um one of the few things that Jimmy 186 00:11:29,400 --> 00:11:32,720 Speaker 1: Page has ever said complimentary about rival musicians. Jem Page 187 00:11:32,720 --> 00:11:35,080 Speaker 1: and Robert Plant were both big Little Feet fans, but 188 00:11:35,200 --> 00:11:37,760 Speaker 1: Jimmy Page has gone on like repeatedly on record as 189 00:11:37,840 --> 00:11:40,240 Speaker 1: being like, the Relent in the Year's solo is like 190 00:11:40,280 --> 00:11:42,920 Speaker 1: my favorite guitar solo of all time. That makes sense. 191 00:11:42,960 --> 00:11:46,080 Speaker 1: He's an Excession player. I feel like he would appreciate that. 192 00:11:46,200 --> 00:11:49,199 Speaker 1: I don't know. Elliot Randall, the guy who played it, 193 00:11:49,200 --> 00:11:53,480 Speaker 1: would later describe his experience working with Steely Dan instruction 194 00:11:53,760 --> 00:11:57,120 Speaker 1: what instruction? The only constant would be Walter Becker coming 195 00:11:57,120 --> 00:11:59,040 Speaker 1: over to me right before the assistant hit the red 196 00:11:59,080 --> 00:12:03,600 Speaker 1: button and saying play the Blues Elliott, There's was a 197 00:12:03,640 --> 00:12:06,199 Speaker 1: tweet that came out right around they Get Back documentary 198 00:12:06,200 --> 00:12:08,440 Speaker 1: that was, like, I need an eight hour documentary of 199 00:12:08,520 --> 00:12:11,880 Speaker 1: Donald Fagen and Walter Becker chain smoking at a mixing 200 00:12:11,920 --> 00:12:18,800 Speaker 1: console and just telling session guitarist Nope, that's not it anyway. 201 00:12:18,920 --> 00:12:21,880 Speaker 1: They followed Can't Buy a Throw with Countdown to Ecstasy 202 00:12:21,960 --> 00:12:25,360 Speaker 1: Pretzel Logic. Katie lied in the Royal Scam before arriving 203 00:12:25,400 --> 00:12:30,520 Speaker 1: at today's topic, nineteen seventy seven's magnum Opus Asia. Uh. 204 00:12:30,559 --> 00:12:33,400 Speaker 1: They had stopped touring in nineteen seventy four because they 205 00:12:33,440 --> 00:12:36,319 Speaker 1: simply did not like it, and they didn't tour again 206 00:12:36,400 --> 00:12:40,360 Speaker 1: for nineteen years. It was basically the same approach taken 207 00:12:40,360 --> 00:12:43,079 Speaker 1: by the Beatles and Brian Wilson, who, it must be noted, 208 00:12:43,120 --> 00:12:46,120 Speaker 1: by the time they stopped touring, had way more hits 209 00:12:46,120 --> 00:12:49,440 Speaker 1: than Steely Tan. Yeah. But yeah, I guess they just 210 00:12:49,480 --> 00:12:52,600 Speaker 1: wanted to become a studio entity. Once a journalist asked 211 00:12:52,679 --> 00:12:55,280 Speaker 1: Donald fag and how they'd managed not to tour, and 212 00:12:55,320 --> 00:12:58,120 Speaker 1: he said, easy, we fired all the roadies so we 213 00:12:58,160 --> 00:13:04,720 Speaker 1: couldn't go. I think XTC two right when I almost 214 00:13:04,760 --> 00:13:10,560 Speaker 1: feel like they just period. I recommend everyone watched the 215 00:13:10,840 --> 00:13:13,880 Speaker 1: I mean, man Classic Albums is such a weird bummer 216 00:13:13,920 --> 00:13:15,760 Speaker 1: to me that I feel like that series goes on 217 00:13:15,880 --> 00:13:19,240 Speaker 1: and off streaming constantly. Like I remember there was a 218 00:13:19,280 --> 00:13:21,720 Speaker 1: point where they were on Prime and I watched all 219 00:13:21,800 --> 00:13:26,960 Speaker 1: of the I watched this on YouTube. Anyway, the Classic 220 00:13:27,000 --> 00:13:30,200 Speaker 1: Album series are incredible. The Steely Dan Classic Albums episode 221 00:13:30,240 --> 00:13:33,680 Speaker 1: is and must watch and in it, Donald Fagin says, 222 00:13:34,040 --> 00:13:36,480 Speaker 1: around the time we made Asia, we figured out what 223 00:13:36,520 --> 00:13:39,800 Speaker 1: it was we sort of wanted to do musically. We 224 00:13:39,840 --> 00:13:43,000 Speaker 1: realized we needed session musicians who had a larger palette 225 00:13:43,000 --> 00:13:45,760 Speaker 1: of things they could do, who were also good readers, 226 00:13:45,960 --> 00:13:50,160 Speaker 1: because they were coming in cold. To that end, Asia's 227 00:13:50,200 --> 00:13:54,400 Speaker 1: liner notes basically read like a yearbook superlative page of 228 00:13:54,559 --> 00:13:58,880 Speaker 1: mid century jazz, R and B soul icons l A 229 00:13:59,040 --> 00:14:03,120 Speaker 1: session vets. Let's just run them down, uh and again 230 00:14:03,160 --> 00:14:07,040 Speaker 1: I'm only using their biggest accomplishments as a calling card. 231 00:14:07,040 --> 00:14:11,400 Speaker 1: These guys Wikipedia pages are incredible drummers. Paul Humphrey played 232 00:14:11,440 --> 00:14:14,079 Speaker 1: on Let's Get It On by Marvin Gaye. Also played 233 00:14:14,120 --> 00:14:18,640 Speaker 1: with iconic jazz guitarist West Montgomery. Shortlist of the greatest 234 00:14:18,640 --> 00:14:22,040 Speaker 1: tenor saxophone players of all time, John Coltrane shortlist of 235 00:14:22,040 --> 00:14:24,960 Speaker 1: the greatest jazz bassis of all time. Charles Mingus he 236 00:14:25,120 --> 00:14:29,640 Speaker 1: this guy replaced Buddy Rich at one point, and he 237 00:14:29,760 --> 00:14:32,800 Speaker 1: was the drum over the Lawrence Wolk Orchestra, which is 238 00:14:33,000 --> 00:14:34,840 Speaker 1: feels like kind of a come down after I named 239 00:14:34,840 --> 00:14:39,160 Speaker 1: all those other things for six years. That's true. Uh. 240 00:14:39,200 --> 00:14:43,160 Speaker 1: Steve Gatt the True Drummers drummer. Among his many many 241 00:14:43,160 --> 00:14:46,640 Speaker 1: accomplishments is the drum intro to Fifty Ways to Leave 242 00:14:46,680 --> 00:14:50,320 Speaker 1: Your Lover by Paul Simon. The guy is like he's 243 00:14:50,320 --> 00:14:53,120 Speaker 1: played with. Every famous musician of the twentieth century has 244 00:14:53,200 --> 00:14:56,520 Speaker 1: been quicker to name people he hasn't played with. Bernard 245 00:14:56,960 --> 00:15:01,160 Speaker 1: Pretty Pretty. Ah. I can't say enough great things about 246 00:15:01,160 --> 00:15:04,080 Speaker 1: Bernard pretty Pretty. He's one of the most famous sessions 247 00:15:04,080 --> 00:15:08,520 Speaker 1: of all time. He created the Pretty shuffle, which has 248 00:15:08,520 --> 00:15:11,520 Speaker 1: been adopted by everyone from John Bonham on Full in 249 00:15:11,520 --> 00:15:16,120 Speaker 1: the Rain to Toto for Rosanna. Uh. There's a great 250 00:15:16,240 --> 00:15:19,720 Speaker 1: story that Donald Fagin tells. In the sixties, Bernard Pretty 251 00:15:19,760 --> 00:15:22,640 Speaker 1: would show up to a session with two signs that 252 00:15:22,720 --> 00:15:24,840 Speaker 1: he would set up on either side of his drum kit. 253 00:15:25,280 --> 00:15:28,520 Speaker 1: One would read you've done it. You hired the hit 254 00:15:28,600 --> 00:15:30,720 Speaker 1: maker and the other would have his name on it. 255 00:15:30,840 --> 00:15:34,720 Speaker 1: Bernard Party. The problem was with him, as Fagan explained 256 00:15:34,720 --> 00:15:40,160 Speaker 1: to Don Bright, hopped in the extraordinarily perhaps to its peril, 257 00:15:40,360 --> 00:15:45,200 Speaker 1: comprehensive thirty three and our third entry for Asia. His 258 00:15:45,280 --> 00:15:47,920 Speaker 1: first or second take would be perfect, So while everyone 259 00:15:47,960 --> 00:15:50,920 Speaker 1: else was still figuring out the changes, Bernard would put 260 00:15:50,920 --> 00:15:53,560 Speaker 1: on his overcoat and say that's it. I'm going home. 261 00:15:53,760 --> 00:15:57,600 Speaker 1: Just overdub the other guys. It's funny because, uh, Jeff 262 00:15:57,640 --> 00:16:02,240 Speaker 1: Berner at Brooklyn's Studio G who I've worked with, had 263 00:16:02,320 --> 00:16:05,680 Speaker 1: been in sessions with Bernard Purdy and he was like, 264 00:16:06,360 --> 00:16:10,040 Speaker 1: that guy costs a song and he does not like 265 00:16:10,120 --> 00:16:16,240 Speaker 1: doing second takes. That's incredible. Wow. He also claimed to 266 00:16:16,280 --> 00:16:19,720 Speaker 1: be the ghost drummer on early Beatles tracks like pickening 267 00:16:19,800 --> 00:16:24,040 Speaker 1: up Ringos parts, which seems like a croc Yeah, if you, 268 00:16:24,480 --> 00:16:27,800 Speaker 1: if you? If you're like the kind of dork. And 269 00:16:27,880 --> 00:16:30,840 Speaker 1: I say this as one of them who has spent 270 00:16:30,880 --> 00:16:34,280 Speaker 1: time on the Steve Hoffman forums, which is like almost 271 00:16:34,320 --> 00:16:37,800 Speaker 1: certainly the greatest repository of like white guy boomer musicians 272 00:16:37,800 --> 00:16:42,480 Speaker 1: in the world. Hashtag Rick Patto patto um. It makes 273 00:16:42,520 --> 00:16:45,080 Speaker 1: Twitter look like a land of civil discourse. Let me 274 00:16:45,120 --> 00:16:48,400 Speaker 1: put it back. It is just I mean, the people 275 00:16:48,440 --> 00:16:51,680 Speaker 1: are still arguing about Bernard Purdy, who I guess has 276 00:16:51,720 --> 00:16:55,400 Speaker 1: just claimed to drum on everything. Um. But yeah, I 277 00:16:55,440 --> 00:16:57,760 Speaker 1: mean you should just look up some videos of him 278 00:16:57,760 --> 00:17:00,840 Speaker 1: because he's hilarious. Have you seen the one where he's 279 00:17:00,840 --> 00:17:03,680 Speaker 1: explaining the pretty shuffle and he's like, and then I 280 00:17:03,760 --> 00:17:09,320 Speaker 1: discovered some air in my high hat and then he 281 00:17:09,359 --> 00:17:14,600 Speaker 1: starts singing his drum fills. Oh hey ha hey ha ha. Anyway, 282 00:17:15,160 --> 00:17:18,600 Speaker 1: but it's it's a triple and halftime, right, triplets and halftime. 283 00:17:18,600 --> 00:17:24,720 Speaker 1: That's what basically what burke with all the little um, yeah, 284 00:17:24,760 --> 00:17:26,639 Speaker 1: you put all the little ghost notes in the in 285 00:17:26,680 --> 00:17:31,560 Speaker 1: the snare and anyway, we're barely through drummers. Rick Moroda 286 00:17:31,920 --> 00:17:34,760 Speaker 1: another legendary session player who's played with everyone from Aretha 287 00:17:34,800 --> 00:17:38,960 Speaker 1: Franklin to Wayland Jennings. This guy also composed the music 288 00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:44,600 Speaker 1: for Everybody Loves Raymond One Degree of Separation between Steely 289 00:17:44,680 --> 00:17:48,320 Speaker 1: Tan and Everybody Loves Raymond. Ed Green played with Three 290 00:17:48,359 --> 00:17:51,399 Speaker 1: Dog Night, Dizzy Gillespie, Jeff Beck, Diana Ross. Can be 291 00:17:51,440 --> 00:17:55,399 Speaker 1: heard in some of Barry White's biggest hits. Jim Kelt 292 00:17:56,240 --> 00:18:00,320 Speaker 1: probably the most famous session drummer of the twentieth century. Uh, 293 00:18:01,200 --> 00:18:04,400 Speaker 1: just look at his wikipage. My favorite Jim Keltner anecdote 294 00:18:04,520 --> 00:18:07,320 Speaker 1: is that also in the Classic Album series, I think 295 00:18:07,320 --> 00:18:10,480 Speaker 1: it's Tom Petty talking about it, they were recording Refugee 296 00:18:10,520 --> 00:18:12,359 Speaker 1: and they were just like banging their heads again. Or 297 00:18:12,359 --> 00:18:15,000 Speaker 1: maybe it's Jimmy Jimmy Iovini who talks about it. Either way, 298 00:18:15,200 --> 00:18:17,679 Speaker 1: they were like getting frustrated trying to record Refugee and 299 00:18:17,680 --> 00:18:19,720 Speaker 1: they were like, ah, you know, this song still needs 300 00:18:19,720 --> 00:18:24,159 Speaker 1: something else, and one of them, frustrated, they like opened 301 00:18:24,200 --> 00:18:26,320 Speaker 1: the door of the control room and they step out 302 00:18:26,320 --> 00:18:29,080 Speaker 1: in the hallway and Jim Keltner standing there with an 303 00:18:29,080 --> 00:18:32,040 Speaker 1: egg shaker, which is the little auxiliary percussion thing that's 304 00:18:32,040 --> 00:18:37,520 Speaker 1: filled with like little beads, and he's just but yeah, yeah, exactly. 305 00:18:37,560 --> 00:18:39,240 Speaker 1: He's sitting there there in the hallway and he's like, 306 00:18:39,280 --> 00:18:41,880 Speaker 1: you know what, that song really needs a shaker part, 307 00:18:42,560 --> 00:18:45,480 Speaker 1: And damn it, he was right. So they brought him 308 00:18:45,480 --> 00:18:48,760 Speaker 1: in and he plays the shaker part, and Refugee sells 309 00:18:48,800 --> 00:18:53,480 Speaker 1: seventeen million copies or whatever. Um Keltner gets his day, right. 310 00:18:54,240 --> 00:18:59,159 Speaker 1: I was just gonna say, yeah, yeah, Also in the 311 00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:02,880 Speaker 1: Asian cut Cozy Keltner plays a garbage candle it as 312 00:19:02,920 --> 00:19:06,480 Speaker 1: percussion um buried somewhere way in the mix. You can 313 00:19:06,520 --> 00:19:08,800 Speaker 1: hear it soloed At one point on the On the 314 00:19:08,840 --> 00:19:11,720 Speaker 1: Classic Albums thing, Fagan I think in the thirty three 315 00:19:11,720 --> 00:19:13,520 Speaker 1: and the third says it was his idea. He said 316 00:19:13,760 --> 00:19:16,680 Speaker 1: we were in awe of him, so anything he wanted 317 00:19:16,720 --> 00:19:19,119 Speaker 1: to do was good. We didn't even think about it. 318 00:19:19,200 --> 00:19:24,920 Speaker 1: We just said, quick, get Jim Keltner garbage candled which, yeah, 319 00:19:24,960 --> 00:19:27,800 Speaker 1: when Jim Keltner asked her garbage can you bring? You 320 00:19:27,880 --> 00:19:30,560 Speaker 1: bring the man a garbage candleid. Listening on the Classic 321 00:19:30,560 --> 00:19:34,959 Speaker 1: Album's doc, listening to Becker and Fagin like dissect the 322 00:19:35,000 --> 00:19:38,000 Speaker 1: tracks at the mixing board, it's really amazing all the 323 00:19:38,080 --> 00:19:41,040 Speaker 1: weird sounds that they have in there that you don't hear, 324 00:19:41,480 --> 00:19:43,560 Speaker 1: and then when you hear them isolated, you're just like, 325 00:19:43,640 --> 00:19:46,880 Speaker 1: what the hell is that? But then they explained why 326 00:19:46,920 --> 00:19:48,760 Speaker 1: they put it in there, Like there's this one part 327 00:19:48,880 --> 00:19:51,840 Speaker 1: in I think it was PEG where they had this 328 00:19:52,440 --> 00:19:58,359 Speaker 1: little really high trebling synthesizer. Yeah, that sounds like like 329 00:19:58,400 --> 00:20:01,320 Speaker 1: a like a child's toy or like something that would 330 00:20:01,320 --> 00:20:03,520 Speaker 1: be played in like a Mall on the seventies, like 331 00:20:03,680 --> 00:20:06,359 Speaker 1: over like a mus act track. This is weird sound 332 00:20:06,440 --> 00:20:08,640 Speaker 1: and you hear it isolated, like what the hell is that? 333 00:20:08,880 --> 00:20:10,720 Speaker 1: Not only do I have I never heard that in there, 334 00:20:10,760 --> 00:20:13,160 Speaker 1: but also why would anyone ever think to use that? 335 00:20:13,400 --> 00:20:15,600 Speaker 1: And they explained, well, we thought that the horn parts 336 00:20:15,680 --> 00:20:17,520 Speaker 1: needed a little more high ends. We put it on 337 00:20:17,560 --> 00:20:19,679 Speaker 1: there to make it a little brighter, to make it 338 00:20:19,680 --> 00:20:23,880 Speaker 1: It's just it's it's like an artist who puts shade 339 00:20:23,960 --> 00:20:27,679 Speaker 1: or something to emphasize well, it's like, I mean, you 340 00:20:27,680 --> 00:20:29,760 Speaker 1: know what I'd say. It's like it's like Rothco like 341 00:20:29,880 --> 00:20:34,840 Speaker 1: coming up with his own chemically unique washes to put 342 00:20:35,440 --> 00:20:38,879 Speaker 1: paintings where it's like, yeah, that's like six parts egg 343 00:20:38,920 --> 00:20:42,880 Speaker 1: white to three parts Elmer's glue and one part airplane 344 00:20:42,920 --> 00:20:45,719 Speaker 1: glue and then just painting it over all his stuff. 345 00:20:45,800 --> 00:20:48,560 Speaker 1: And people today are still like how the how do 346 00:20:48,640 --> 00:20:51,399 Speaker 1: you do that? You know, they're big, like it just 347 00:20:51,440 --> 00:20:53,720 Speaker 1: doesn't look the same. And that's the thing about this 348 00:20:53,840 --> 00:20:56,560 Speaker 1: record is that, like it was for I guess a 349 00:20:56,600 --> 00:21:00,760 Speaker 1: long period of time, the preferred demo album in high 350 00:21:00,880 --> 00:21:03,560 Speaker 1: end stereo shops, like if you went in to buy 351 00:21:03,600 --> 00:21:07,680 Speaker 1: like a six thousand dollar morants, amplifier or whatever. Someone 352 00:21:07,680 --> 00:21:10,800 Speaker 1: would slap on Asia and be like, you really hear 353 00:21:10,920 --> 00:21:17,399 Speaker 1: Jim Keltner's trash can pard on this? Uh. Chuck Rainey 354 00:21:17,480 --> 00:21:19,960 Speaker 1: plays bass on this is a real testament to Chuck 355 00:21:20,119 --> 00:21:22,280 Speaker 1: and Rainey. You're gonna have to bleep so much of this. 356 00:21:22,400 --> 00:21:24,879 Speaker 1: I just get so excited about Steelee Dan. It was 357 00:21:24,880 --> 00:21:26,679 Speaker 1: a real testament Chuck Rainey. He's like one of the 358 00:21:26,720 --> 00:21:29,840 Speaker 1: only bassists on here, I think maybe the only. It's 359 00:21:29,840 --> 00:21:34,600 Speaker 1: like him and Becker, possibly best known for his long 360 00:21:34,640 --> 00:21:37,679 Speaker 1: association with the Wreatha. Franklin the guy has played on 361 00:21:37,840 --> 00:21:41,359 Speaker 1: over a thousand recordings. It's like him and Ron Carter 362 00:21:41,560 --> 00:21:46,680 Speaker 1: and Milt Hinton, who are like the most recorded bassists 363 00:21:46,720 --> 00:21:54,120 Speaker 1: of period. Full stop Um the peg story that's in 364 00:21:54,520 --> 00:21:58,760 Speaker 1: classic albums. Uh. He thought the song's chorus needed a 365 00:21:58,800 --> 00:22:02,040 Speaker 1: slap bass part and Fagan and Becker, possibly because slap 366 00:22:02,040 --> 00:22:03,920 Speaker 1: bass was kind of coming into vogue at the time. 367 00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:06,960 Speaker 1: This is like right after I mean, slap bass really 368 00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:10,200 Speaker 1: only dates back to Larry Graham and Graham Central Station 369 00:22:10,240 --> 00:22:13,119 Speaker 1: with with Sly, but also around this time you're getting 370 00:22:13,480 --> 00:22:16,960 Speaker 1: Brothers Johnson stuff. Louis Johnson is like a huge slap 371 00:22:16,960 --> 00:22:18,760 Speaker 1: bass guy. So it was kind of coming into vogue 372 00:22:18,760 --> 00:22:21,159 Speaker 1: around this time, and of course Becker and Fager and 373 00:22:21,200 --> 00:22:24,520 Speaker 1: we're like, no slap bass. So when Jock Rany's solution 374 00:22:24,680 --> 00:22:27,639 Speaker 1: was was to put up like a like an Iso 375 00:22:28,040 --> 00:22:32,360 Speaker 1: studio partition, yeah, studio partition, and turn on a rotating 376 00:22:32,480 --> 00:22:36,280 Speaker 1: chair stool slightly away from them so that they couldn't 377 00:22:36,320 --> 00:22:39,159 Speaker 1: see his hands from the control booth and play the 378 00:22:39,200 --> 00:22:42,600 Speaker 1: slap bass part as he wanted. I mean, you can 379 00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:45,400 Speaker 1: tell you can hear it through I'm sure the studio headphones, 380 00:22:45,520 --> 00:22:49,200 Speaker 1: Like it's obvious he's doing slap bass. But did you 381 00:22:49,240 --> 00:22:51,480 Speaker 1: get on Josie right, I know that's a that's a 382 00:22:51,480 --> 00:22:54,160 Speaker 1: slap bass part. Maybe that was an authorized slap based part. 383 00:22:55,040 --> 00:22:58,000 Speaker 1: Rainy is amazing. Um. I don't really understand his right 384 00:22:58,040 --> 00:23:00,600 Speaker 1: hand technique. If you just like google his some of 385 00:23:00,640 --> 00:23:04,800 Speaker 1: his YouTube videos, he just does unreal um. Yeah, and 386 00:23:04,840 --> 00:23:09,119 Speaker 1: he's on. Another great example to watch him work or 387 00:23:09,160 --> 00:23:12,040 Speaker 1: hear him work is the Aretha Franklin and the Amazing 388 00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:17,560 Speaker 1: Grace keyboards. Donald Faken plays a lot of keys on 389 00:23:17,560 --> 00:23:21,200 Speaker 1: the record, but my god, dude, they have Victor Feldman, 390 00:23:21,240 --> 00:23:24,040 Speaker 1: who wrote one of the most famous mid period Miles 391 00:23:24,080 --> 00:23:26,840 Speaker 1: Davis song Seven Steps to Heaven. He's on that record. 392 00:23:27,280 --> 00:23:31,159 Speaker 1: He also plays percussion. He plays vibraphone and that is 393 00:23:31,240 --> 00:23:35,600 Speaker 1: his extremely prominent shaker part. Undo it again. Uh. One 394 00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:39,199 Speaker 1: of my but possibly my favorite Victor Feldman story is 395 00:23:39,280 --> 00:23:42,040 Speaker 1: that during a session for the Royal Scam on the 396 00:23:42,040 --> 00:23:46,159 Speaker 1: Sun Green Earrings, they relegated him to playing a container 397 00:23:46,200 --> 00:23:50,520 Speaker 1: of salt as a percussion part for an entire day. 398 00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:54,080 Speaker 1: It seems like a punishment. Well that's I think. In 399 00:23:54,119 --> 00:23:56,560 Speaker 1: the Vulture, there's like a Vulture article about Seeley dam 400 00:23:56,640 --> 00:23:58,600 Speaker 1: where they say it was a punishment because he was 401 00:23:58,640 --> 00:24:03,080 Speaker 1: playing too quote out earlier and so they were like, 402 00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:07,600 Speaker 1: play the salt shaker, um, come back and you chilled out. 403 00:24:09,359 --> 00:24:13,520 Speaker 1: Other keys men include sessionist Don grol Nick, guy named 404 00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:18,200 Speaker 1: Michael o'martian who has won three Grammys, did the arrangement 405 00:24:18,280 --> 00:24:21,639 Speaker 1: for We Are the World and he played the accordion 406 00:24:21,760 --> 00:24:26,000 Speaker 1: part on Billy Joel's piano man Um. A guy named 407 00:24:26,040 --> 00:24:29,480 Speaker 1: Joe Sample who founded the group Jazz Crusaders, played with 408 00:24:29,520 --> 00:24:32,080 Speaker 1: a bunch of people and you can hear his compositions 409 00:24:32,119 --> 00:24:36,280 Speaker 1: on the Weather Channel apparently for many years. And Paul 410 00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:40,159 Speaker 1: Griffin who played with King Curtis and also is on 411 00:24:40,280 --> 00:24:44,400 Speaker 1: Highway sixty one and Blonde on Blonde and your beloved 412 00:24:44,440 --> 00:24:51,920 Speaker 1: American Pie Guitar. Wise, we have Jazz Shred extraordinarire's Larry Carlton, 413 00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:56,720 Speaker 1: Lee Rittenhoer, Steve Kahn, and Dean Parks, along with multiple 414 00:24:56,800 --> 00:24:59,640 Speaker 1: Grammy winner Jake Graydon, who, as far as I can tell, 415 00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:01,640 Speaker 1: is the only guy on this list who have also 416 00:25:01,720 --> 00:25:06,400 Speaker 1: made an appearance in the comic strip Dunesbury in what context? 417 00:25:07,040 --> 00:25:10,760 Speaker 1: No idea, It's just a note as Wikipedia page. I 418 00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:13,359 Speaker 1: don't know, I don't know. What do you expect me 419 00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:17,200 Speaker 1: to have read? Dunesbury in the past twenty years, the 420 00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:20,080 Speaker 1: first comic strip to win a Pulitzer. Expect more from 421 00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:23,240 Speaker 1: You're a highly literate guy. Oh wow? I was always 422 00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:26,760 Speaker 1: more of a far side guy. And Calvin Hobbs, how 423 00:25:26,800 --> 00:25:29,040 Speaker 1: does he Calvin at caltan Hams not winning like a 424 00:25:29,119 --> 00:25:35,760 Speaker 1: Nobel prize whatever? Uh. Larry Carton in particular was tasked 425 00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:38,760 Speaker 1: with um he would get the demo tapes from Fagan 426 00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:42,400 Speaker 1: and Becker and UH basically transcribe a lot of these 427 00:25:42,440 --> 00:25:47,399 Speaker 1: parts into studio ready charts the other musicians, which sounds 428 00:25:47,440 --> 00:25:51,240 Speaker 1: like a thankless job on horns. You've got to remember 429 00:25:51,280 --> 00:25:54,639 Speaker 1: the Blues Brothers. Tom Scott wrote the arrangements for this 430 00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:59,359 Speaker 1: record in two weeks. Pete christ Leeb who plays saxophone 431 00:25:59,359 --> 00:26:04,119 Speaker 1: and Deacon News in one take after arriving at the 432 00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:08,399 Speaker 1: studio after already taping The Tonight Show which he was 433 00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:11,879 Speaker 1: a member of the band, And legendary Jasmine Wayne Shorter, 434 00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:16,200 Speaker 1: who played in Miles Davis's Second Great Quintet, which will 435 00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:18,720 Speaker 1: never cease to astound me that Miles Davis had two 436 00:26:18,760 --> 00:26:21,439 Speaker 1: bands so good that they are referred to as the 437 00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:25,560 Speaker 1: First and Second Great Quintets, respectively, which also makes him 438 00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:28,399 Speaker 1: the second Miles Davis sideman to appear on this record. 439 00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:33,240 Speaker 1: Um also a guy named Plais Johnson Jr. Also known 440 00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:36,800 Speaker 1: as the tenor saxophone soloist on the Pink Panther theme. 441 00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:39,760 Speaker 1: Jim Horne of the Wrecking Crew played with Dwayne Eddie, 442 00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:45,160 Speaker 1: George Harrison, John Denver on pet Sounds and also That's 443 00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:49,359 Speaker 1: Right Yeah, and also played the iconic flute solo on 444 00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:54,760 Speaker 1: Canned Heats Going Up the Country. Do Do Do Do 445 00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:58,880 Speaker 1: Do Do Uh? Twenty year veteran of The Tonight Show 446 00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:03,119 Speaker 1: band Bill Perk, a trombonist named Dick Hyde, who, aside 447 00:27:03,119 --> 00:27:06,000 Speaker 1: from having one of those insane yeah Dick Hide, but 448 00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:08,840 Speaker 1: one of those insane Wikipedia entrwes. But he also won 449 00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:14,480 Speaker 1: four m VP Awards from the Recording Academy, like the Grammys. 450 00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:19,880 Speaker 1: You didn't know, didn't know you could do that any 451 00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:26,440 Speaker 1: one of four times? Maybe him the sixth Man Award. 452 00:27:27,280 --> 00:27:31,399 Speaker 1: A veritable army of backing vocalists, including the aforementioned go 453 00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:35,640 Speaker 1: O a t of late seventies early eighties soft rock 454 00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:40,040 Speaker 1: vocalist Michael McDonald, Timothy B. Schmidt of the Eagles is 455 00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:46,080 Speaker 1: on this uh X I capt Vanetta Fields, ex motowner 456 00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:50,760 Speaker 1: and backup session war horse, Shirley Matthews, and clydie King, 457 00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:52,880 Speaker 1: who I didn't know anything about and then googled or 458 00:27:54,440 --> 00:27:59,480 Speaker 1: Bob Dylan's then girlfriend Susan Ross alleged that clydie King 459 00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:03,440 Speaker 1: was this secret wife of Dylan and mother of two 460 00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:05,639 Speaker 1: of his children. Do you know anything about that? I 461 00:28:05,640 --> 00:28:08,600 Speaker 1: know nothing about that has been I think it was 462 00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:11,639 Speaker 1: just I don't want to go and there was just 463 00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:14,159 Speaker 1: in the tabloids or anything, but it's just it's just 464 00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:19,440 Speaker 1: funny at me. Anyway. Gary Katz worked with legendary producers 465 00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:22,159 Speaker 1: and songwriters Jerry Lieber and Mike Stoller. What are the 466 00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:25,639 Speaker 1: Lieber and Stoler greatest hits? Jordan's locomotion, I know, know 467 00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:32,359 Speaker 1: the locomotions. Um, Golfin King, Yeah, sorry, I mean hound Dog, 468 00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:36,600 Speaker 1: Kansas City, Yakety Y Acts, Searching, Young Blood, Bunch of 469 00:28:36,600 --> 00:28:41,720 Speaker 1: Elva stuff, jail House Rock, God, King, Creole. I think 470 00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:45,280 Speaker 1: they did stand by me. Yeah, I mean tons of songs. 471 00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:48,560 Speaker 1: Cats also parallel career is an A and R guy. 472 00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:53,080 Speaker 1: He signed jim Crocey, Shaka Khan and Rufus. Jimmy be 473 00:28:53,280 --> 00:29:00,080 Speaker 1: signed Jimmy Buffett. Also Prince Dire Straits, Christopher Cross and 474 00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:05,000 Speaker 1: Ricky Lee Jones to Warner Brothers. That's mind boggling. Um. 475 00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:10,320 Speaker 1: In that Rolling Stone piece, Cameron Crows the relationship with 476 00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:13,600 Speaker 1: Cats continued as like a way of a setup, and 477 00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:19,680 Speaker 1: Walter Becker says, why shouldn't it he has a mustache? Uh. 478 00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:22,800 Speaker 1: In the thirty three and the third book, another perhaps 479 00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:26,280 Speaker 1: unsung aspect of Cats as contributions were the fact that 480 00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:29,880 Speaker 1: he could play this variation of the card game Rummy 481 00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:34,080 Speaker 1: called Tonk that I guess the black studio musicians like 482 00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:37,880 Speaker 1: new and they were uh fagin and Becker were like 483 00:29:38,080 --> 00:29:42,520 Speaker 1: terrified of by their own admission quote terrified when like 484 00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:45,400 Speaker 1: Chuck Rainey and Bernard pretty pretty came into the studio 485 00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:47,600 Speaker 1: and I guess Gary Katz was like, no, we're gonna 486 00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:50,720 Speaker 1: play Tonk and like really broke the ice. I love 487 00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:54,280 Speaker 1: that anyway, with all of that talent at the extremely 488 00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:57,400 Speaker 1: finicky Becker and Fagin's disposal, it is no wonder Asia 489 00:29:57,440 --> 00:30:01,560 Speaker 1: took over a year to make, with five months spent 490 00:30:01,720 --> 00:30:07,520 Speaker 1: on mixes alone. I would eat a bullet separate mixes right, 491 00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:12,400 Speaker 1: something like that over five months them forced ABC to 492 00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:17,160 Speaker 1: reschedule the release date three times. One of the session guitars, 493 00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:19,600 Speaker 1: Steve Kahn, later said that in order to get a 494 00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:22,400 Speaker 1: track green light, it had to get there okay from Becker, 495 00:30:22,560 --> 00:30:25,200 Speaker 1: Fagan and producer Gary Katz, and he said to get 496 00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:27,800 Speaker 1: a track past all three of them was next to impossible. 497 00:30:28,080 --> 00:30:30,560 Speaker 1: If too liked it, one with v to it just 498 00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:33,560 Speaker 1: to exercise his own a sense of authority. That's what 499 00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:37,040 Speaker 1: you get for having an odd number of guitarist Dean 500 00:30:37,080 --> 00:30:39,600 Speaker 1: Parks were called the shape of these recording sessions. For 501 00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:42,280 Speaker 1: the Classic Albums episode, he said, we would have six 502 00:30:42,360 --> 00:30:46,000 Speaker 1: hour sessions to three hour sessions with a lunch break 503 00:30:46,080 --> 00:30:49,040 Speaker 1: in between. We'd rehearse for the morning session, and I 504 00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:51,440 Speaker 1: would have the distinct feeling that we would never get 505 00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:54,440 Speaker 1: a take with this band. It would never happen, the 506 00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:56,800 Speaker 1: song would probably not end up on the album, and 507 00:30:56,840 --> 00:31:01,600 Speaker 1: it was all going to be failed. Pause. We'd go 508 00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:04,320 Speaker 1: to lunch, come back and everything was in place, and 509 00:31:04,360 --> 00:31:07,400 Speaker 1: we get a lot of really good takes, which is 510 00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:10,840 Speaker 1: basically how I feel every workday between my lunch break 511 00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:15,840 Speaker 1: and after. Uh. Drummer Rick Morata said, you gotta love them. 512 00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:18,360 Speaker 1: You go in there and you're just really good friends 513 00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:20,120 Speaker 1: and you'll play and you try to get into it, 514 00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:22,520 Speaker 1: and you'll say that's really good, and then the next 515 00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:25,360 Speaker 1: day somebody else is doing it, a whole other band. 516 00:31:25,760 --> 00:31:28,280 Speaker 1: It wasn't like they played musical chairs with the guys 517 00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:32,560 Speaker 1: in the band. They played musical bands. A whole band 518 00:31:32,600 --> 00:31:35,960 Speaker 1: would go and a whole incredible other band would come in. 519 00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:39,080 Speaker 1: Can you imagine what a box set, like a true 520 00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:42,600 Speaker 1: box like a Brian Wilson Smile Sessions type thing would 521 00:31:42,600 --> 00:31:45,360 Speaker 1: be with this, with all the different incarnations of the 522 00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:48,320 Speaker 1: bands playing all these songs. Because on the classic albums 523 00:31:48,360 --> 00:31:51,959 Speaker 1: thing they have they still have those takes saved. I 524 00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:55,320 Speaker 1: guess somewhere in the alts they're like, there could be 525 00:31:55,560 --> 00:32:00,920 Speaker 1: a year of this stuff, um sure type thing like 526 00:32:01,040 --> 00:32:07,400 Speaker 1: after Sagan goes God. Leavitt Our told Bright out amongst 527 00:32:07,520 --> 00:32:10,520 Speaker 1: session players in l A, working on Steely Dan's stuff 528 00:32:10,560 --> 00:32:13,000 Speaker 1: was a very big deal. You'd see guys at other 529 00:32:13,080 --> 00:32:17,280 Speaker 1: sessions and they'd be asking did your solo make it? Um? 530 00:32:17,320 --> 00:32:19,840 Speaker 1: But apparently they were never the axe men for this. 531 00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:23,560 Speaker 1: They would always delegate the responsibility of telling these guys 532 00:32:23,600 --> 00:32:27,640 Speaker 1: their solo didn't make it. Two cats um, I guess 533 00:32:27,720 --> 00:32:30,080 Speaker 1: would soften the blows by like chatting them up about 534 00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:33,480 Speaker 1: baseball and then at some point dropping in the bad news, 535 00:32:33,760 --> 00:32:36,440 Speaker 1: like how about the Dodgers this year? By the way, 536 00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:38,560 Speaker 1: the thing you spent six hours on is not making 537 00:32:38,560 --> 00:32:43,240 Speaker 1: the cut. Uh. Dire Straits guitarists and vocalist Mark knop 538 00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:47,680 Speaker 1: Fler is frequently cited by the middle aged white guy 539 00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:50,680 Speaker 1: readership of Guitar World is one of the greatest guitarists 540 00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:52,959 Speaker 1: of all time. Did not have a good time when 541 00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:54,880 Speaker 1: the band asked him to play Time out of Mind 542 00:32:54,920 --> 00:32:59,840 Speaker 1: from Gaucho. He recorded ten hours plus of guitar work 543 00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:04,200 Speaker 1: only to have about fifteen seconds of all of that 544 00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:09,200 Speaker 1: make the songs introit. Honestly, that sounds like the correct 545 00:33:09,320 --> 00:33:13,000 Speaker 1: ratio for Steele A. Dan. He described the experience as 546 00:33:13,120 --> 00:33:15,960 Speaker 1: quote like getting into a swimming pool with lead weights 547 00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:18,760 Speaker 1: tied to your boots and I say, good, I hate 548 00:33:18,760 --> 00:33:25,400 Speaker 1: dire straits. That's one of that. One of your spicier takes. 549 00:33:26,760 --> 00:33:30,120 Speaker 1: Speaking of Gaucho, is rumor that Jeff Purcaro is drummer 550 00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:37,160 Speaker 1: for Toto, another widely widely well regarded session drummers in history. 551 00:33:37,560 --> 00:33:40,800 Speaker 1: He drums on the title track. That take is supposedly 552 00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:46,560 Speaker 1: cut together from forty six separate takes. How do you 553 00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:51,240 Speaker 1: comp a drum track from forty six takes? How long 554 00:33:51,400 --> 00:33:54,360 Speaker 1: is the song? Gaucho can't possibly be that? What is it? 555 00:33:54,800 --> 00:33:58,080 Speaker 1: Three cuts per second? Five thirty two? I would assume 556 00:33:58,080 --> 00:34:02,120 Speaker 1: they're playing the click track. Wow, Yeah, good god, I 557 00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:03,920 Speaker 1: mean see, this is what I mean. It almost seems 558 00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:06,360 Speaker 1: like their songs are perfect, to the point where it 559 00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:09,680 Speaker 1: almost seems like AI or something like. It's it's a 560 00:34:09,680 --> 00:34:14,200 Speaker 1: little unnerving at points. Steve Kahn, who plays rhythm guitar 561 00:34:14,239 --> 00:34:18,560 Speaker 1: and peg, told Newsweek, having the money and the power 562 00:34:18,600 --> 00:34:24,920 Speaker 1: of guaranteed sales is a license for abuse. He's correct. 563 00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:28,360 Speaker 1: What they might waste on one or two days of 564 00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:32,000 Speaker 1: recording to get a single track, most artists like me 565 00:34:32,280 --> 00:34:36,000 Speaker 1: could make an entire record for that. He is correct. 566 00:34:36,719 --> 00:34:39,280 Speaker 1: I love that they spent all this money, like hundreds 567 00:34:39,280 --> 00:34:42,680 Speaker 1: of thousands of dollars in the seventies, so more like 568 00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:48,080 Speaker 1: millions in today's dollars, while steadfastly refusing to tour. It's 569 00:34:48,200 --> 00:34:53,239 Speaker 1: no income stream back in the day, the profit I mean, 570 00:34:53,239 --> 00:34:56,359 Speaker 1: nowadays everybody makes their only money on core. But back 571 00:34:56,360 --> 00:34:58,560 Speaker 1: in the day, with tour and merch, yeah, back in 572 00:34:58,600 --> 00:35:00,560 Speaker 1: the day was inverted. You would make all your money 573 00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:05,240 Speaker 1: from radio and record. I guess they actually considered touring 574 00:35:05,320 --> 00:35:08,839 Speaker 1: Asia and got as far as rehearsals right before uh, 575 00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:12,040 Speaker 1: and then they just scrapped the whole idea. Fagin later said, 576 00:35:12,239 --> 00:35:14,920 Speaker 1: we had four thousand dollars worth of musicians in the room, 577 00:35:15,040 --> 00:35:17,120 Speaker 1: guys who wouldn't go out on the road for Miles 578 00:35:17,200 --> 00:35:20,640 Speaker 1: Davis literally, and they were committed to doing this, and 579 00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:23,640 Speaker 1: we meeting, he and Becker left the room together and said, 580 00:35:24,040 --> 00:35:25,560 Speaker 1: what do you say you want to can it? And 581 00:35:25,560 --> 00:35:32,680 Speaker 1: we both said yeah without thinking twice icons as you 582 00:35:32,760 --> 00:35:35,200 Speaker 1: meditate on that, we'll be right back with more too 583 00:35:35,280 --> 00:35:49,000 Speaker 1: much information. After these messages, we'll get to PEG. Well, 584 00:35:49,040 --> 00:35:52,959 Speaker 1: we're getting to pay right now. The band went through 585 00:35:53,440 --> 00:35:58,520 Speaker 1: somewhere between five and eight guitarists. Accounts differ just for 586 00:35:58,600 --> 00:36:01,680 Speaker 1: the solo on PEG, which wind up being played by 587 00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:08,960 Speaker 1: Jake Graydon uh Donald fake until Newsweek, a rare display 588 00:36:08,960 --> 00:36:13,239 Speaker 1: of shame. We were embarrassed for them and for us. 589 00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:18,319 Speaker 1: We felt silly spending all this money for this one 590 00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:24,200 Speaker 1: brief blue solo. And then I think we talked about 591 00:36:24,239 --> 00:36:26,240 Speaker 1: this later. They listened to some of the out takes 592 00:36:26,239 --> 00:36:29,719 Speaker 1: for the guitar solo in the Classic Albums documentary and 593 00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:34,319 Speaker 1: just just voices dripping with contempt. I mean, it's like 594 00:36:34,360 --> 00:36:38,600 Speaker 1: they still, thirty years later at that point, twenty years later, 595 00:36:38,640 --> 00:36:42,279 Speaker 1: at that point, still hate what they're hearing. This is 596 00:36:42,280 --> 00:36:45,719 Speaker 1: a silly aside. But Jay Grayden, the guy ended up 597 00:36:45,960 --> 00:36:48,880 Speaker 1: finally playing the right PEG solo, had a great quote 598 00:36:48,920 --> 00:36:52,040 Speaker 1: about modern recording software, and this is in the Newsweek 599 00:36:52,040 --> 00:36:54,960 Speaker 1: piece we've cited. Uh Zack shonan Felt did an amazing 600 00:36:55,040 --> 00:36:59,040 Speaker 1: job reading a piece just about the guitar solo in 601 00:36:59,320 --> 00:37:02,759 Speaker 1: hagg It's great Jake Raydon said, now you can make 602 00:37:02,760 --> 00:37:05,400 Speaker 1: anything perfect in pro tools, but back then there was 603 00:37:05,480 --> 00:37:10,520 Speaker 1: no help man. Before pro tools, there were pros amazing. 604 00:37:12,160 --> 00:37:19,239 Speaker 1: Rick Derringer of U and who'd coup fame and hang 605 00:37:19,280 --> 00:37:23,239 Speaker 1: on Sloopy by the McCoy's. He was another candidate, an 606 00:37:23,239 --> 00:37:26,000 Speaker 1: engineer on these sessions. Elliott Shiner told Newsweek for the 607 00:37:26,040 --> 00:37:28,800 Speaker 1: aforementioned article, Rick Derringer was there for about three or 608 00:37:28,840 --> 00:37:32,080 Speaker 1: four hours. We got something out of him. The minute 609 00:37:32,080 --> 00:37:35,920 Speaker 1: he left, some thing that a shakedown. Yeah right. He 610 00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:38,520 Speaker 1: was strapped to a chair, We put car battery up 611 00:37:38,520 --> 00:37:41,480 Speaker 1: to his nipples, and he played this guitar solo for 612 00:37:41,520 --> 00:37:46,319 Speaker 1: four hours. Anyway, the minute he left, Walter looked at 613 00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:52,960 Speaker 1: me and said, erase it. Remove it from the earth. 614 00:37:53,760 --> 00:37:58,720 Speaker 1: That guy. Um. I said, okay, you never questioned it. Um. 615 00:37:58,760 --> 00:38:01,800 Speaker 1: Apparently someone told Dar Injured this was a technical istue issue, 616 00:38:01,800 --> 00:38:04,439 Speaker 1: because in that Newsweek article he says something about like, 617 00:38:04,680 --> 00:38:07,280 Speaker 1: oh yeah, I heard the tape was corrupted or something. 618 00:38:07,560 --> 00:38:12,319 Speaker 1: Multiple times he says it. But immediately after him in 619 00:38:12,360 --> 00:38:15,680 Speaker 1: that article, the engineers quoted and saying they tried to 620 00:38:15,719 --> 00:38:17,720 Speaker 1: get what they wanted out of Rick and they didn't. 621 00:38:17,760 --> 00:38:21,160 Speaker 1: So I erased it. So Rick Deringer, if you listen 622 00:38:21,200 --> 00:38:22,920 Speaker 1: to too much information, I'm sorry to break it to you, 623 00:38:22,960 --> 00:38:25,360 Speaker 1: but they just really hated your guitar sol at what's 624 00:38:25,480 --> 00:38:28,920 Speaker 1: the problem with the tape? J Grayden said, He's solo 625 00:38:29,000 --> 00:38:33,000 Speaker 1: took four or five hours to nail down. God love him. Yeah, 626 00:38:33,040 --> 00:38:36,400 Speaker 1: as we mentioned earlier, you gotta watch this classic album's 627 00:38:36,440 --> 00:38:39,120 Speaker 1: documentary and watch Becker and Fagan go through. I think 628 00:38:39,120 --> 00:38:41,360 Speaker 1: they only play like two or three of the out takes, 629 00:38:41,560 --> 00:38:44,359 Speaker 1: and they don't they don't name who's playing, right, No, 630 00:38:44,440 --> 00:38:47,520 Speaker 1: but I mean diplomatically, well, this as close to diplomacy 631 00:38:47,520 --> 00:38:50,399 Speaker 1: as they get. Side note, I love Donald Fagan has 632 00:38:50,400 --> 00:38:53,960 Speaker 1: the John Waters mustache. He was some reason. It's like 633 00:38:54,040 --> 00:38:57,720 Speaker 1: John Waters, like pervy younger brother who's really into chazz 634 00:38:57,880 --> 00:39:01,400 Speaker 1: and like zoot suits. But during this like either're playing 635 00:39:01,400 --> 00:39:04,560 Speaker 1: all these rejected solos and just like the eye contact 636 00:39:04,600 --> 00:39:06,560 Speaker 1: between the two of them, like you can tell they're 637 00:39:06,600 --> 00:39:09,000 Speaker 1: just they wanted so badly to rip it apart, and 638 00:39:09,040 --> 00:39:11,480 Speaker 1: Fagan says, won't you hate if someone did this to 639 00:39:11,600 --> 00:39:15,880 Speaker 1: you that? So finally they get to the version that 640 00:39:16,040 --> 00:39:18,239 Speaker 1: wound up on the record, and Becker says, and then 641 00:39:18,320 --> 00:39:20,640 Speaker 1: Ja came in and did the solo with absolutely no 642 00:39:20,800 --> 00:39:25,799 Speaker 1: difficulty whatsoever, brutal. There's a great line about this in 643 00:39:25,880 --> 00:39:30,960 Speaker 1: Winston Cook Wilson's incredible retrospective piece for Spin for Asia Anniversary. 644 00:39:30,960 --> 00:39:34,240 Speaker 1: He said, like their hero Duke Ellington, Fagan and Becker 645 00:39:34,360 --> 00:39:38,280 Speaker 1: needed the identity of individual soloists to create their finished canvas, 646 00:39:38,520 --> 00:39:42,760 Speaker 1: but within quite specific and refined structural limits. The duo, however, 647 00:39:42,880 --> 00:39:45,160 Speaker 1: was not as good with people as Allington, but they 648 00:39:45,160 --> 00:39:48,000 Speaker 1: didn't have to be. From the safety of the studio booth, 649 00:39:48,120 --> 00:39:50,200 Speaker 1: they could just say, try it again as much as 650 00:39:50,200 --> 00:39:53,040 Speaker 1: they needed and scraped the solos they didn't like. After 651 00:39:53,080 --> 00:39:57,200 Speaker 1: the fact. They were described somewhat more bluntly in Dylan 652 00:39:57,239 --> 00:40:02,440 Speaker 1: Jones piece for g q u K as fundamentally sociopaths 653 00:40:02,520 --> 00:40:08,200 Speaker 1: masquerading his benign dictators. Incredible. In the same piece, Becker said, 654 00:40:08,560 --> 00:40:11,520 Speaker 1: we just kept adjusting our standards higher and higher. So 655 00:40:11,560 --> 00:40:14,280 Speaker 1: many days we make guys do thirty or forty takes 656 00:40:14,440 --> 00:40:16,480 Speaker 1: and never listen to any of them again, because we 657 00:40:16,560 --> 00:40:18,440 Speaker 1: knew none of them were any good. But we just 658 00:40:18,520 --> 00:40:22,080 Speaker 1: kept hoping that somehow it was just gonna miraculously get good. 659 00:40:22,920 --> 00:40:26,120 Speaker 1: Guess Becker was our Fagan I think was so fastidious 660 00:40:26,160 --> 00:40:28,839 Speaker 1: and fussy that people call the mother behind his back 661 00:40:28,880 --> 00:40:34,680 Speaker 1: in the studio. Um for Michael McDonald, who's soaring multi 662 00:40:34,760 --> 00:40:38,400 Speaker 1: tracked vocals, are the pillowy clouds that drape the chorus 663 00:40:38,480 --> 00:40:41,840 Speaker 1: of Peg having to be stuck in the booth for 664 00:40:41,960 --> 00:40:46,759 Speaker 1: hours overdubbing his own voice into dense harmonies meant to 665 00:40:46,840 --> 00:40:51,120 Speaker 1: mimic the hordon section voicings of big bands, clearly an 666 00:40:51,120 --> 00:40:57,240 Speaker 1: experience that still haunts him. Absolutely. My single favorite section 667 00:40:57,360 --> 00:41:00,239 Speaker 1: from that Classic Albums thing, which people on YouTube greed 668 00:41:00,280 --> 00:41:03,680 Speaker 1: because they've just cut it out as an edit, is uh, 669 00:41:03,920 --> 00:41:06,759 Speaker 1: Facon goes let's check out his high part just to 670 00:41:06,840 --> 00:41:11,080 Speaker 1: embarrass him, and Beggar just goes cool. So they just 671 00:41:11,160 --> 00:41:19,600 Speaker 1: solttle bit clickdong on pig buck do you pig come 672 00:41:19,680 --> 00:41:23,960 Speaker 1: buck um. Yeah, it's wild, man. I mean, it's not 673 00:41:24,040 --> 00:41:27,680 Speaker 1: even like barbershop stuff. It sounds like horn sections. Yeah, 674 00:41:27,680 --> 00:41:30,120 Speaker 1: it's like four way close harmonies. It sounds like those 675 00:41:30,160 --> 00:41:34,239 Speaker 1: old like old radio show jingle type stuff from the 676 00:41:34,280 --> 00:41:37,400 Speaker 1: forties or old silver screen era backing, which is appropriate 677 00:41:37,400 --> 00:41:39,760 Speaker 1: because it's all about like a faded broad like a 678 00:41:39,800 --> 00:41:43,160 Speaker 1: silver screen silver state silver age. What am I trying 679 00:41:43,160 --> 00:41:46,200 Speaker 1: to say it's all about silver screen era? Yeah, yeah, 680 00:41:46,880 --> 00:41:49,200 Speaker 1: so that's the theory. So the theories that it's about 681 00:41:49,200 --> 00:41:55,480 Speaker 1: Pagant Whistle, who was according to Hollywood Babylon lore, she 682 00:41:55,600 --> 00:41:58,720 Speaker 1: threw herself off the h in the Hollywood sign because 683 00:41:58,719 --> 00:42:01,480 Speaker 1: she couldn't get any work in the twenties or thirties. 684 00:42:01,480 --> 00:42:05,440 Speaker 1: I forget. And the likely apocryphal coda to this is 685 00:42:05,480 --> 00:42:07,680 Speaker 1: that she had an offer letter for a new part 686 00:42:07,760 --> 00:42:10,839 Speaker 1: waiting in her mailbox at home that came like right 687 00:42:10,880 --> 00:42:15,000 Speaker 1: after she left to go on this this fatal journey. 688 00:42:15,640 --> 00:42:19,080 Speaker 1: But yeah, given those old tiny harmonies, that sounds is 689 00:42:19,120 --> 00:42:22,080 Speaker 1: like something out of a nineteen thirties or forties musical 690 00:42:22,160 --> 00:42:25,080 Speaker 1: or radio jingles. I wouldn't doubt it, even though I 691 00:42:25,120 --> 00:42:28,640 Speaker 1: guess Celia dan Of denied that it was written about 692 00:42:28,640 --> 00:42:31,880 Speaker 1: a real person. Yeah, there's Donald Fagan will always arrive 693 00:42:31,960 --> 00:42:35,399 Speaker 1: to puncture your misconceptions. And as of who was saying, 694 00:42:35,719 --> 00:42:38,960 Speaker 1: there's no hidden meaning. We just wanted a dotted half 695 00:42:39,000 --> 00:42:41,680 Speaker 1: note for that spot, and peg was short enough to 696 00:42:41,719 --> 00:42:44,759 Speaker 1: fit with the music. They wear their soul lissness on 697 00:42:44,840 --> 00:42:48,800 Speaker 1: their sleeves. I appreciate that. Funnily enough, given that theme, 698 00:42:49,200 --> 00:42:51,600 Speaker 1: The song was used as the theme music for a 699 00:42:52,080 --> 00:42:57,600 Speaker 1: celebrity paparazzi segment by Entertainment Tonight on their televised show. 700 00:42:57,640 --> 00:43:02,520 Speaker 1: From that's I cannot imagine how that would fit. But 701 00:43:02,560 --> 00:43:05,000 Speaker 1: that's really funny because in the Dylan Jones piece for 702 00:43:05,080 --> 00:43:07,800 Speaker 1: g q UK I mentioned a moment ago they Becker 703 00:43:07,800 --> 00:43:11,399 Speaker 1: and Fagan actually cite old school television music as one 704 00:43:11,440 --> 00:43:16,360 Speaker 1: of their many influences. And it's actually a really illuminating 705 00:43:16,440 --> 00:43:20,120 Speaker 1: passage in this piece which maybe goes some way and 706 00:43:20,160 --> 00:43:22,920 Speaker 1: explaining why they're so finicky with their music and what 707 00:43:23,080 --> 00:43:25,560 Speaker 1: exactly it was they were looking for when they were recording. 708 00:43:26,239 --> 00:43:28,319 Speaker 1: I think this is Fagan talking. He said, we were 709 00:43:28,360 --> 00:43:31,279 Speaker 1: interested in a kind of hybrid music that included all 710 00:43:31,320 --> 00:43:34,839 Speaker 1: the music we'd ever listened to, which is a high bar. 711 00:43:35,200 --> 00:43:37,200 Speaker 1: So there were always a lot of TV music and 712 00:43:37,239 --> 00:43:39,680 Speaker 1: things in there. It was very eclectic, and it used 713 00:43:39,719 --> 00:43:42,480 Speaker 1: to make us laugh. We knew something was good if 714 00:43:42,520 --> 00:43:45,080 Speaker 1: we would really laugh at it when we played it back. 715 00:43:45,560 --> 00:43:49,040 Speaker 1: We liked the sort of fox Lux sound of the fifties. 716 00:43:49,320 --> 00:43:51,719 Speaker 1: There was just something very funny about it. I grew 717 00:43:51,800 --> 00:43:54,320 Speaker 1: up in a fox Lux household, and it was a 718 00:43:54,400 --> 00:43:57,880 Speaker 1: very alienating world. So for me it had the opposite effect. 719 00:43:58,320 --> 00:44:00,680 Speaker 1: Music is supposed to relax you, but it makes me 720 00:44:00,800 --> 00:44:04,200 Speaker 1: very anxious. Thought that was a very interesting insight into 721 00:44:04,680 --> 00:44:08,600 Speaker 1: what motivates them creatively. I think he said multiple times 722 00:44:08,640 --> 00:44:13,400 Speaker 1: he's like, I like real jazz and fake jazz. I 723 00:44:13,440 --> 00:44:15,360 Speaker 1: guess he's talking at music when he says that music. 724 00:44:15,400 --> 00:44:17,799 Speaker 1: When he says that, UM, that classic albums thing is 725 00:44:17,800 --> 00:44:21,160 Speaker 1: so funny because if you watch him play piano, he 726 00:44:21,239 --> 00:44:25,000 Speaker 1: has such a ridiculous, weird piano technique. He raises his 727 00:44:25,280 --> 00:44:28,880 Speaker 1: arm up to like he shoulder to like drop it 728 00:44:28,920 --> 00:44:31,759 Speaker 1: down and play these right hand parts. Um, which I 729 00:44:31,840 --> 00:44:34,160 Speaker 1: guess it's actually I read something where he talked about 730 00:44:34,200 --> 00:44:39,600 Speaker 1: how much he idolized Ray Charles, and in specifically the 731 00:44:40,000 --> 00:44:44,200 Speaker 1: he said specifically the physicality of watching Ray Charles play piano, 732 00:44:44,280 --> 00:44:46,839 Speaker 1: where he was like, I'd never seen someone put their 733 00:44:46,880 --> 00:44:50,960 Speaker 1: whole body into playing music that way. It's a weird digression. Um. 734 00:44:51,000 --> 00:44:53,040 Speaker 1: In the thirty three and the third book, Bright helped 735 00:44:53,120 --> 00:44:56,799 Speaker 1: pins down the rhyme scheme of PEG. There's double verse 736 00:44:56,800 --> 00:44:59,880 Speaker 1: in that as and I gotta really push my face 737 00:45:00,040 --> 00:45:03,319 Speaker 1: up against my monitor. Read this A B C C 738 00:45:03,520 --> 00:45:07,160 Speaker 1: d B, A E, C C D E. I think 739 00:45:07,200 --> 00:45:10,120 Speaker 1: I said that right well in Deacon Blues versus one 740 00:45:10,160 --> 00:45:14,160 Speaker 1: in three are A B, C, B D E F 741 00:45:14,480 --> 00:45:17,520 Speaker 1: F E. Just in case you thought they were overly 742 00:45:17,600 --> 00:45:21,240 Speaker 1: hard on the instrumentalists. I also love in Deacon Blues 743 00:45:21,280 --> 00:45:23,880 Speaker 1: there's a part in that classic albums where Fagan just goes, 744 00:45:24,280 --> 00:45:26,320 Speaker 1: this was when I was singing a little like Jerry 745 00:45:26,360 --> 00:45:30,480 Speaker 1: Lewis listening to his own vocals, and Becker just goes, Yeah, 746 00:45:30,840 --> 00:45:35,200 Speaker 1: that was a very fertile period for you. It's their 747 00:45:35,280 --> 00:45:38,480 Speaker 1: Their friendship is so like heartwarming. Their partnership is so 748 00:45:38,560 --> 00:45:41,400 Speaker 1: heartwarming to me because it's just like these two guys 749 00:45:41,400 --> 00:45:44,960 Speaker 1: who could clearly never aside from I guess their wives, 750 00:45:45,040 --> 00:45:49,759 Speaker 1: like never met anyone else they could bond with, and 751 00:45:49,840 --> 00:45:51,960 Speaker 1: everyone just talks about them being able to like finish 752 00:45:51,960 --> 00:45:55,640 Speaker 1: the other sentences and obviously having this tremendously like fertile, 753 00:45:56,239 --> 00:45:59,600 Speaker 1: you know, musical partnership. But yeah, it's cute. It is 754 00:46:00,000 --> 00:46:02,800 Speaker 1: a is you know. I mean, for all their technical 755 00:46:02,880 --> 00:46:06,160 Speaker 1: virtuosity and brilliant songcraft, I feel like their lyrics are 756 00:46:06,160 --> 00:46:10,680 Speaker 1: almost underappreciated, or at least the least appreciated of all 757 00:46:10,719 --> 00:46:13,359 Speaker 1: their other gifts. I feel like these were two beat 758 00:46:13,440 --> 00:46:16,160 Speaker 1: Nicks who studied English at Bards, so clearly they were 759 00:46:16,160 --> 00:46:20,359 Speaker 1: extremely literate, intellectual guys. And the journalist Chris Morris said 760 00:46:20,400 --> 00:46:23,600 Speaker 1: in a piece for Variety, quote the art school Dan 761 00:46:23,680 --> 00:46:27,240 Speaker 1: Maestro's drew in a wealth of literary inspirations for their lyrics, 762 00:46:27,400 --> 00:46:31,520 Speaker 1: which dealt heavily in subterfuge and misdirection in the manner 763 00:46:31,520 --> 00:46:34,839 Speaker 1: of a times square three card monty game. I thought 764 00:46:34,840 --> 00:46:36,920 Speaker 1: that was such a great intriguing way to put that. 765 00:46:37,680 --> 00:46:42,040 Speaker 1: Their lines are as sarcastic and biting and vicious as 766 00:46:42,400 --> 00:46:45,879 Speaker 1: any punk lyric. Fagin later said, we write the same 767 00:46:45,920 --> 00:46:48,040 Speaker 1: way as a writer of fiction would write, assuming the 768 00:46:48,120 --> 00:46:51,640 Speaker 1: role of a character and considering their named after a dildo. 769 00:46:51,680 --> 00:46:54,799 Speaker 1: And William Burrows novel The Beats obviously loom large. But 770 00:46:54,920 --> 00:46:57,920 Speaker 1: Fagan was also a big sci fi nerd. He was 771 00:46:57,960 --> 00:47:00,480 Speaker 1: a member of the science fiction book club in school, 772 00:47:00,520 --> 00:47:04,040 Speaker 1: which is adorable, and he identified with people who use 773 00:47:04,080 --> 00:47:07,680 Speaker 1: sci fi as social satire, people like CM corn Bluth 774 00:47:07,760 --> 00:47:10,319 Speaker 1: or A. E. Van Voight or Alfred Bester was his 775 00:47:10,360 --> 00:47:13,280 Speaker 1: favorite um and these were a lot of these writers 776 00:47:13,280 --> 00:47:15,480 Speaker 1: came out of the socialist movement of the thirties and 777 00:47:15,600 --> 00:47:19,440 Speaker 1: use their writing to criticize society. And you can kind 778 00:47:19,440 --> 00:47:22,560 Speaker 1: of see the sci fi influence coming out on something 779 00:47:22,600 --> 00:47:25,680 Speaker 1: like the opening lines of the title track Asia Up 780 00:47:25,719 --> 00:47:28,480 Speaker 1: on the Hill. Can you do a Donald Fagan? I 781 00:47:28,560 --> 00:47:34,320 Speaker 1: actually can't. I didn't have one of these prepared. Disappointed. Uh, 782 00:47:34,560 --> 00:47:37,240 Speaker 1: up in the Hill, They've got time to burn. There's 783 00:47:37,280 --> 00:47:42,200 Speaker 1: no return double helix in the sky tonight throughout the hardware. 784 00:47:42,360 --> 00:47:45,839 Speaker 1: Let's do it right, I mean, that's sounds like what 785 00:47:45,880 --> 00:47:50,719 Speaker 1: that sounds like. But see because William Gibson, who is 786 00:47:50,800 --> 00:47:55,840 Speaker 1: the acknowledged father of the cyberpunk subgenre of sci fi, 787 00:47:55,880 --> 00:48:01,600 Speaker 1: I think, has multiple Steely Dan references. Yeah uh, I 788 00:48:01,600 --> 00:48:05,680 Speaker 1: mean yeah, good luck figuring out what those opening lines 789 00:48:05,719 --> 00:48:08,280 Speaker 1: in Asia me and even the opening line of Deacon 790 00:48:08,320 --> 00:48:11,160 Speaker 1: Blues this is the Day of the Expanding Man. That's 791 00:48:11,200 --> 00:48:13,480 Speaker 1: supposed to be a reference to Alfred Bester's book The 792 00:48:13,520 --> 00:48:18,000 Speaker 1: Demolished Man. And then another influence in Steely Dan's lyrics. 793 00:48:18,040 --> 00:48:20,680 Speaker 1: You have the black comedy of authors like Terry Southern 794 00:48:20,680 --> 00:48:24,359 Speaker 1: who did The Magic Christian and Candy, Kurt Vonnegut, Philip Roth, 795 00:48:24,640 --> 00:48:28,480 Speaker 1: and especially Vladimir Nabakov. Uh familiar to most people as 796 00:48:28,520 --> 00:48:32,440 Speaker 1: the author of Lolita, and he shares Steely Dan's fascination 797 00:48:32,520 --> 00:48:36,720 Speaker 1: with unreliable narrators and creeps and perverts and obsessives who 798 00:48:36,840 --> 00:48:40,360 Speaker 1: perform all kinds of mental gymnastics to justify their poor behavior. 799 00:48:40,880 --> 00:48:44,880 Speaker 1: Bobakov's books are portraits of humans driven insane by passion. 800 00:48:45,000 --> 00:48:47,960 Speaker 1: I mean Humbert. Humbert's probably the best example of that 801 00:48:48,440 --> 00:48:51,719 Speaker 1: in Lolita. And you also have the Beats influence, with 802 00:48:51,760 --> 00:48:55,280 Speaker 1: the junkies and the criminal elements. It's all dark stuff. 803 00:48:55,320 --> 00:48:56,960 Speaker 1: I mean, you've got a little bit of Bob Dylan 804 00:48:57,000 --> 00:48:59,680 Speaker 1: in there. In fact, I think Fagan lives or at 805 00:48:59,719 --> 00:49:04,759 Speaker 1: least lived in Bob Dylan's old house and Woodstock and Uh. 806 00:49:04,880 --> 00:49:07,959 Speaker 1: Steely Dan of often cited the musical satirist Tom Lair 807 00:49:08,560 --> 00:49:12,960 Speaker 1: as a major influence. He was a pianist satirist in 808 00:49:13,000 --> 00:49:16,000 Speaker 1: the fifties and early sixties, and he would have songs 809 00:49:16,040 --> 00:49:19,480 Speaker 1: like Poisoning Pigeons in the Park, the Old Dope Peddler, 810 00:49:19,840 --> 00:49:22,120 Speaker 1: and also a song about the nuclear apocalypse called we 811 00:49:22,120 --> 00:49:24,880 Speaker 1: Will All Go Together When We Go. I feel like 812 00:49:25,040 --> 00:49:28,600 Speaker 1: all those sound like Steely Dan song titles and National 813 00:49:28,680 --> 00:49:35,520 Speaker 1: Brotherhood Week, which writes, it's just a litany of racial prejudices, 814 00:49:36,120 --> 00:49:39,840 Speaker 1: the refrain of which is and everybody hates the Jews. 815 00:49:41,960 --> 00:49:45,160 Speaker 1: I mean, I feel like you can see all these 816 00:49:45,239 --> 00:49:48,799 Speaker 1: elements that show up in Steely Dan's lyrics. I read 817 00:49:48,800 --> 00:49:51,120 Speaker 1: somewhere that many of the characters and Steely Dan songs 818 00:49:51,160 --> 00:49:53,440 Speaker 1: seem like they should be sitting at the Nighthawks Diner 819 00:49:53,480 --> 00:49:57,800 Speaker 1: in that hopper painting, just lonely and slightly sinister and morose, 820 00:49:58,480 --> 00:50:02,000 Speaker 1: as if they've just poisoned page in the park. Um 821 00:50:02,120 --> 00:50:05,000 Speaker 1: Fagan would later admit that Steely Dan were obsessed with 822 00:50:05,120 --> 00:50:08,719 Speaker 1: quote a culture of losers, and a good example of 823 00:50:08,800 --> 00:50:11,680 Speaker 1: that's the character in Deacon Blues, this deluded want to 824 00:50:11,719 --> 00:50:15,120 Speaker 1: be jazz musician living out in the sticks. Um. Ironically, 825 00:50:15,160 --> 00:50:17,839 Speaker 1: they said that's the closest to an autobiographical song they 826 00:50:17,880 --> 00:50:24,000 Speaker 1: ever had. And then you get Black Cow, which seems 827 00:50:24,040 --> 00:50:26,080 Speaker 1: to be about a man who may be stalking his 828 00:50:26,120 --> 00:50:29,200 Speaker 1: ex girlfriend who's pilled up and seeing a lot of 829 00:50:29,200 --> 00:50:32,400 Speaker 1: men at the time, and it's basically a n Apacov character. 830 00:50:32,480 --> 00:50:35,440 Speaker 1: This guy is stalking his ex. I think I have 831 00:50:35,520 --> 00:50:37,480 Speaker 1: the meaning of that song, right. I mean, their words 832 00:50:37,480 --> 00:50:42,080 Speaker 1: are obviously notoriously dance. When the Fairly Brothers were making 833 00:50:42,160 --> 00:50:45,440 Speaker 1: the comedy Me, Myself and Irene in two thousand, for 834 00:50:45,480 --> 00:50:47,600 Speaker 1: some reason, they wanted the soundtrack to just be all 835 00:50:47,640 --> 00:50:50,120 Speaker 1: covers of Steely Dan songs, and they got people like 836 00:50:50,200 --> 00:50:53,319 Speaker 1: Ben Folds and Wilco and Brian sets Or to contribute. 837 00:50:53,600 --> 00:50:56,160 Speaker 1: The only person who turned them down was Jonathan Richmond. 838 00:50:56,760 --> 00:51:00,120 Speaker 1: And when the Fairly Brothers pressed him on you know why, 839 00:51:00,160 --> 00:51:03,360 Speaker 1: he said, Peter, I'd like to do this, but the lyrics, 840 00:51:03,640 --> 00:51:05,840 Speaker 1: I don't know what they mean. I never understood with 841 00:51:06,000 --> 00:51:09,200 Speaker 1: Becker and fake and we're saying, and he justifiably felt 842 00:51:09,239 --> 00:51:12,120 Speaker 1: like he couldn't sing songs he didn't understand, so he passed. 843 00:51:12,560 --> 00:51:16,400 Speaker 1: Now we have to get into hashtag peatto. My favorite 844 00:51:16,440 --> 00:51:19,600 Speaker 1: part of the Theato Music Corner, favorite part of any 845 00:51:19,640 --> 00:51:22,799 Speaker 1: t in my episodes. Uh. Steely Dan le lean on 846 00:51:22,840 --> 00:51:26,719 Speaker 1: this very specific voicing for their major chords, which they 847 00:51:26,760 --> 00:51:29,880 Speaker 1: called the mu or I guess move. I don't know. 848 00:51:29,920 --> 00:51:32,400 Speaker 1: I didn't I didn't take Greek. I was in a fraternity. 849 00:51:32,400 --> 00:51:34,759 Speaker 1: It's the Greek letter. I don't know how you pronounce it, 850 00:51:35,280 --> 00:51:40,080 Speaker 1: um m yeah uh. And it's just basically a different 851 00:51:40,120 --> 00:51:43,560 Speaker 1: way of voicing a major chord um. Technically it is 852 00:51:43,600 --> 00:51:48,280 Speaker 1: a major nine chord um because you add the second 853 00:51:48,320 --> 00:51:51,920 Speaker 1: degree of the scale that the chord is drawn from 854 00:51:52,000 --> 00:51:54,480 Speaker 1: and voice it in such a way that it creates 855 00:51:54,560 --> 00:51:58,560 Speaker 1: two sets of whole tone intervals, one between the root 856 00:51:58,600 --> 00:52:00,879 Speaker 1: of the chord and the major set in, and one 857 00:52:00,920 --> 00:52:04,279 Speaker 1: between the major second of the chord and the major third. 858 00:52:04,400 --> 00:52:06,879 Speaker 1: So if you're in the key of C C major 859 00:52:06,960 --> 00:52:11,240 Speaker 1: chord c e G root third five, the MU voicing 860 00:52:11,280 --> 00:52:16,719 Speaker 1: over that would be a C D e G. The 861 00:52:16,760 --> 00:52:21,320 Speaker 1: crucial difference here is that in like most jazz voicings 862 00:52:21,360 --> 00:52:24,600 Speaker 1: of these chords, you see this chord tone at it 863 00:52:24,640 --> 00:52:27,279 Speaker 1: as a ninth, and what that means is that it's 864 00:52:27,320 --> 00:52:30,640 Speaker 1: stacked above the rest of those intervals. So you would 865 00:52:30,640 --> 00:52:33,960 Speaker 1: have a root third, five, maybe a seventh, and then 866 00:52:34,000 --> 00:52:37,360 Speaker 1: you would have the ninth above all of those. But 867 00:52:37,440 --> 00:52:40,560 Speaker 1: what the steely Dan voicing does is put that tone 868 00:52:40,760 --> 00:52:44,400 Speaker 1: that in this example, the d the second of the chord, 869 00:52:44,719 --> 00:52:47,360 Speaker 1: put that right in between the root and the third, 870 00:52:47,440 --> 00:52:51,839 Speaker 1: and that creates this very dense texture that sounds like 871 00:52:54,920 --> 00:52:57,560 Speaker 1: what's yeah, Because it's three. It's a whole tone, which 872 00:52:57,560 --> 00:52:59,160 Speaker 1: is the you know, the first three notes of the 873 00:52:59,160 --> 00:53:04,280 Speaker 1: whole tone scale, which comes from like debuc and Revel Stravinsky. 874 00:53:04,400 --> 00:53:07,000 Speaker 1: Do you hear the Looneous Monkeys the whole time scale 875 00:53:07,000 --> 00:53:09,160 Speaker 1: a lot? And I guess it was their way of 876 00:53:09,160 --> 00:53:11,560 Speaker 1: trying to make these major chords sound like a little 877 00:53:11,560 --> 00:53:14,920 Speaker 1: more interesting without adding a bunch of other extensions and 878 00:53:14,960 --> 00:53:18,080 Speaker 1: stuff to them. But it's I don't I can't think 879 00:53:18,120 --> 00:53:22,160 Speaker 1: of another pop band that has a specific chord voicing 880 00:53:22,280 --> 00:53:26,600 Speaker 1: associated with them that's wild there. It's also easier to 881 00:53:26,680 --> 00:53:30,640 Speaker 1: play that way too, I mean, huge hand you have 882 00:53:30,719 --> 00:53:35,399 Speaker 1: to spread your hand really. Yeah, I guess I I've 883 00:53:35,480 --> 00:53:38,719 Speaker 1: I've been. I was unable to find where they exactly 884 00:53:38,840 --> 00:53:43,320 Speaker 1: named this after I found one forum reference where they 885 00:53:43,400 --> 00:53:46,799 Speaker 1: said they jokingly named it after UM, one of the 886 00:53:46,840 --> 00:53:50,600 Speaker 1: opioid receptors in our brains, which as a way of 887 00:53:50,640 --> 00:53:53,839 Speaker 1: like poking fun at a drug reference. But I wasn't 888 00:53:53,880 --> 00:53:56,440 Speaker 1: able to find any verification of that. I think it 889 00:53:56,560 --> 00:54:00,520 Speaker 1: was a critic talking at the opening of the speaking 890 00:54:00,520 --> 00:54:03,319 Speaker 1: in the opening of the Classic Albums documentary. I can't 891 00:54:03,360 --> 00:54:05,279 Speaker 1: remember who, but I remember they were saying, you know, 892 00:54:05,280 --> 00:54:07,120 Speaker 1: I think about silly dan Is that they were not 893 00:54:07,320 --> 00:54:12,040 Speaker 1: a pop band with Prague jazzy pretensions, and they weren't 894 00:54:12,120 --> 00:54:17,040 Speaker 1: jazz guys slumming it in the pop world. They really 895 00:54:17,080 --> 00:54:21,319 Speaker 1: were trying to make this fusion is the only word 896 00:54:21,320 --> 00:54:23,239 Speaker 1: I can think of. I mean, something that was really new, 897 00:54:23,280 --> 00:54:26,080 Speaker 1: that was sort of in between and speaking of I mean, 898 00:54:26,120 --> 00:54:29,120 Speaker 1: I feel like this chord in a strange way, sums 899 00:54:29,160 --> 00:54:31,200 Speaker 1: it up. I mean, if you were trying to do 900 00:54:31,320 --> 00:54:35,040 Speaker 1: like serious hardcore jazz, you would have some really complex 901 00:54:35,120 --> 00:54:38,120 Speaker 1: like B flat major seven, you know, with the with 902 00:54:38,160 --> 00:54:43,720 Speaker 1: the and then these are these are fairly common major 903 00:54:43,800 --> 00:54:46,040 Speaker 1: chords that you'd find in all sorts of running the 904 00:54:46,080 --> 00:54:49,000 Speaker 1: mill pop songs with a little extra somethings to make 905 00:54:49,040 --> 00:54:51,720 Speaker 1: it make it pop, a little something different. And that's 906 00:54:52,440 --> 00:54:55,440 Speaker 1: that's steely Dan, that's the that's the fusion, that's the 907 00:54:55,480 --> 00:55:01,520 Speaker 1: middle ground. Speaking of Insane Charts Asia, the song took 908 00:55:01,719 --> 00:55:07,080 Speaker 1: three music stands to hold the sixteen pages of notated 909 00:55:07,160 --> 00:55:09,839 Speaker 1: music for each one of the guys who played on this. 910 00:55:10,600 --> 00:55:13,240 Speaker 1: Incredibly it came together then the less time they allotted 911 00:55:13,280 --> 00:55:16,120 Speaker 1: for it. They planned to rehearse an entire day before 912 00:55:16,160 --> 00:55:18,120 Speaker 1: going to record it, but they changed their mind after 913 00:55:18,120 --> 00:55:22,279 Speaker 1: getting through one rehearsal take of this Becker told the 914 00:55:22,440 --> 00:55:26,680 Speaker 1: guy who's I guess official title is Steely Dan historian 915 00:55:26,960 --> 00:55:30,359 Speaker 1: Brian Sweet In two thousand eleven, he said, Steve Gadd, 916 00:55:30,440 --> 00:55:33,480 Speaker 1: being a fantastic drummer, is a fantastic sight reader and 917 00:55:33,560 --> 00:55:36,000 Speaker 1: didn't really need to rehearse, neither did the rest of 918 00:55:36,040 --> 00:55:41,200 Speaker 1: the band. Goad took, I've heard two takes to record 919 00:55:41,320 --> 00:55:44,040 Speaker 1: his solos that are that that take up the break 920 00:55:44,080 --> 00:55:46,760 Speaker 1: in that song, first ever drum solo and a Steely 921 00:55:46,840 --> 00:55:49,920 Speaker 1: Dan song edited together in the final mix, And I 922 00:55:49,960 --> 00:55:54,120 Speaker 1: guess Becker's only just like play the blues. Becker's direction 923 00:55:54,160 --> 00:55:56,839 Speaker 1: to him was just play like hell, and I guess 924 00:55:56,880 --> 00:55:59,319 Speaker 1: he's His playing was so crazy in the studio that 925 00:55:59,560 --> 00:56:03,560 Speaker 1: the other musicians stopped looking at their own charts, and 926 00:56:03,600 --> 00:56:06,399 Speaker 1: we're just like drawn to him and up their own 927 00:56:06,440 --> 00:56:11,360 Speaker 1: takes which tracks Yeah. Um. Months later, this is so funny. 928 00:56:11,400 --> 00:56:13,840 Speaker 1: Ultimate Classic Rock has this feature. When they were mixing 929 00:56:14,160 --> 00:56:18,239 Speaker 1: uh Cats, Gary Cats told Ultimate Classic Rock that he 930 00:56:18,320 --> 00:56:21,560 Speaker 1: was playing these mixes for because, as you were called, 931 00:56:21,560 --> 00:56:25,280 Speaker 1: this took a hundred and thirty seven years to mix. Um. 932 00:56:26,160 --> 00:56:28,520 Speaker 1: Gary Cat said he was mixing this and played Steve 933 00:56:28,600 --> 00:56:32,480 Speaker 1: Gad the song Asia, which Steve Gad played and soloed 934 00:56:32,560 --> 00:56:36,359 Speaker 1: on and Steve gab was like, that was drum sound great? 935 00:56:36,400 --> 00:56:40,160 Speaker 1: Who plays on that? Did he? Really? It was he 936 00:56:40,280 --> 00:56:43,760 Speaker 1: just looking for compliments. Well, who knows who's who's who's 937 00:56:43,800 --> 00:56:46,680 Speaker 1: to say. The hilarious thing to me is that Becker Fagan, 938 00:56:46,719 --> 00:56:49,480 Speaker 1: I guess, didn't like Steve gads playing at first. They 939 00:56:49,480 --> 00:56:52,960 Speaker 1: thought it wasn't laid back enough. And it's interesting the 940 00:56:53,080 --> 00:56:55,880 Speaker 1: thoughts on that we talked earlier about how they didn't 941 00:56:55,920 --> 00:56:58,719 Speaker 1: want slap bass because it was too in vogue at 942 00:56:58,719 --> 00:57:02,400 Speaker 1: the moment and just juste to two showy. But I 943 00:57:02,480 --> 00:57:06,360 Speaker 1: guess their thoughts on drumming during this period were really 944 00:57:06,480 --> 00:57:10,160 Speaker 1: influenced by disco. They really kind of liked this rigid 945 00:57:10,280 --> 00:57:14,600 Speaker 1: lockstep tempo of disco drummers. Donald Fagan told g t 946 00:57:14,800 --> 00:57:17,720 Speaker 1: u K. They had all these records that were just 947 00:57:17,840 --> 00:57:21,320 Speaker 1: whack whack, so perfect, the beat never fluctuated, and we 948 00:57:21,360 --> 00:57:24,000 Speaker 1: didn't see why we couldn't have that too, except playing 949 00:57:24,000 --> 00:57:27,280 Speaker 1: this incredibly complicated music and the drummer would go and 950 00:57:27,320 --> 00:57:29,840 Speaker 1: play a great fill or something and come exactly back 951 00:57:29,880 --> 00:57:33,120 Speaker 1: at the perfect beat at the same tempo. Yeah, it's 952 00:57:33,120 --> 00:57:35,080 Speaker 1: funny because, like you know, all these guys are a 953 00:57:35,120 --> 00:57:38,400 Speaker 1: great example of how you can play in time but 954 00:57:38,520 --> 00:57:43,320 Speaker 1: placed the beat differently, Like Bernard Purdy is a metronomic drummer, 955 00:57:43,400 --> 00:57:45,920 Speaker 1: but he's a little bit further back. Steve Gadd is 956 00:57:45,920 --> 00:57:48,720 Speaker 1: a metronomic drummer, but he's a little bit on the beat, 957 00:57:48,920 --> 00:57:52,120 Speaker 1: maybe even pushing a little. He's just such a clinic 958 00:57:52,520 --> 00:57:58,720 Speaker 1: in musicianship this record. Speaking of that saxophone is Wayne Shorter, 959 00:57:59,040 --> 00:58:02,600 Speaker 1: a long his own career as a leader in the 960 00:58:02,680 --> 00:58:07,560 Speaker 1: jazz world, but also of the aforementioned second great Miles 961 00:58:07,680 --> 00:58:11,520 Speaker 1: Davis Quintet. Uh. He initially declined to play the soul 962 00:58:11,600 --> 00:58:13,800 Speaker 1: in this song when Fagan and Becker reached out to him, 963 00:58:13,880 --> 00:58:17,000 Speaker 1: but they asked Dick La Palm, who's the manager of 964 00:58:17,080 --> 00:58:20,840 Speaker 1: the Village Recorder where they were recording this. Um. I 965 00:58:20,880 --> 00:58:23,360 Speaker 1: guess he knew Wayne Shorter from when Wayne Shorter was 966 00:58:23,360 --> 00:58:25,720 Speaker 1: playing at weather Report, and they were like, can you 967 00:58:25,760 --> 00:58:28,920 Speaker 1: put in a good word for us, And Dick La 968 00:58:29,000 --> 00:58:31,840 Speaker 1: Palm is basically like to Wayne Shorter was like, these 969 00:58:31,840 --> 00:58:34,000 Speaker 1: guys are jazz dorks, Like it will really make their 970 00:58:34,080 --> 00:58:36,040 Speaker 1: day if you come in and play on their little record, 971 00:58:36,080 --> 00:58:39,160 Speaker 1: their cute little record, and uh, they sent him a 972 00:58:39,240 --> 00:58:40,880 Speaker 1: chart and when he got to the student. When he 973 00:58:40,920 --> 00:58:43,440 Speaker 1: got to the studio, he warmed up not on his 974 00:58:43,520 --> 00:58:46,200 Speaker 1: saxophone but by playing scales on the piano for half 975 00:58:46,240 --> 00:58:49,400 Speaker 1: an hour, which I love. Uh. And he's got this 976 00:58:49,600 --> 00:58:52,360 Speaker 1: very short part in the Classic Albums documentary, but he 977 00:58:52,400 --> 00:58:55,360 Speaker 1: talks about who he found them corny because they were 978 00:58:55,400 --> 00:58:58,680 Speaker 1: so nice to him. Um. I guess because in the 979 00:58:58,720 --> 00:59:01,600 Speaker 1: neighborhood where he grew up in and also with Miles Davis. 980 00:59:02,040 --> 00:59:03,680 Speaker 1: And he's one of these guys who just does the 981 00:59:03,760 --> 00:59:08,600 Speaker 1: Miles Davis impression. Like unprompted. He says, Miles Davis is like, 982 00:59:08,800 --> 00:59:12,880 Speaker 1: you can't give everything away. Don't give everything away. Yeah, 983 00:59:12,960 --> 00:59:15,160 Speaker 1: And and so he was like, these guys are weird. 984 00:59:15,200 --> 00:59:17,840 Speaker 1: They're being too nice to me. Because La Palms is 985 00:59:17,880 --> 00:59:21,040 Speaker 1: that Donald Fagen had been showing up in T shirts 986 00:59:21,080 --> 00:59:23,120 Speaker 1: and like jeans, and then when Wayne Shorter was there 987 00:59:23,120 --> 00:59:26,360 Speaker 1: to play, he showed up in a starched white shirt, 988 00:59:27,520 --> 00:59:31,040 Speaker 1: which is adorable. The only person he was ever nice too. 989 00:59:31,400 --> 00:59:34,320 Speaker 1: I know, right they will Well, they wanted Tony Williams 990 00:59:34,320 --> 00:59:36,880 Speaker 1: to drum on this song. Um. And Tony Williams is 991 00:59:36,960 --> 00:59:39,840 Speaker 1: also member the Second Great quintet, which would have made 992 00:59:40,320 --> 00:59:44,640 Speaker 1: between them and Victor Felban three miles Davis Sidemen on 993 00:59:44,640 --> 00:59:47,520 Speaker 1: this record, which I think is amazing. Dick Lapalm also 994 00:59:47,560 --> 00:59:50,640 Speaker 1: tells this amazing story about an engineer the studio by 995 00:59:50,680 --> 00:59:54,480 Speaker 1: the name of Linnie Bent, who came to him one 996 00:59:54,520 --> 00:59:57,960 Speaker 1: morning and asked to be taken off of these sessions 997 00:59:58,040 --> 01:00:03,320 Speaker 1: because Becker and fake It had spent six hours the 998 01:00:03,400 --> 01:00:09,120 Speaker 1: previous night choosing comping takes for the phrase well, the 999 01:00:11,000 --> 01:00:13,800 Speaker 1: just a two word phrase in the song Home at Last. 1000 01:00:14,040 --> 01:00:17,040 Speaker 1: The fool lyric is well the danger on the rock 1001 01:00:17,160 --> 01:00:21,479 Speaker 1: has surely passed, and she told him, Dick, I'm gonna 1002 01:00:21,520 --> 01:00:23,680 Speaker 1: do that. I'm gonna do the voice. Dick, I gotta, 1003 01:00:23,880 --> 01:00:26,760 Speaker 1: I gotta get off the decision. They worked on the 1004 01:00:26,800 --> 01:00:32,680 Speaker 1: words well the for six hours last night. All they 1005 01:00:32,760 --> 01:00:36,800 Speaker 1: did was work those two words for hours. I gotta 1006 01:00:37,120 --> 01:00:41,640 Speaker 1: I gotta get opposition. Hilariously, in that g Q article, 1007 01:00:42,360 --> 01:00:49,040 Speaker 1: it's claimed that they spent four days, not six hours. Anyway, 1008 01:00:49,120 --> 01:00:54,240 Speaker 1: the Palm Palm Palm told. Palm told Ben he convinced 1009 01:00:54,240 --> 01:00:56,520 Speaker 1: her to stay because she was like, you're gonna be 1010 01:00:56,520 --> 01:00:59,439 Speaker 1: working on an iconic album, and he was right. Must 1011 01:00:59,440 --> 01:01:02,160 Speaker 1: have been even is for Donald Fagan because I guess he, 1012 01:01:02,320 --> 01:01:04,480 Speaker 1: like a lot of artists, says that he hates the 1013 01:01:04,520 --> 01:01:07,520 Speaker 1: sound of his own voice. So he listened to himself 1014 01:01:07,560 --> 01:01:10,800 Speaker 1: saying those two words for somewhere between six hours and 1015 01:01:10,840 --> 01:01:14,200 Speaker 1: four days. Um. He used to request that his scratch 1016 01:01:14,280 --> 01:01:16,680 Speaker 1: vocals be turned down when they were listening to early 1017 01:01:16,720 --> 01:01:19,240 Speaker 1: playbacks of the demos because he just didn't want to 1018 01:01:19,280 --> 01:01:22,360 Speaker 1: hear himself. And uh and John Lennon was another one 1019 01:01:22,360 --> 01:01:25,720 Speaker 1: who hated his vocals too. That's why a lot of 1020 01:01:25,800 --> 01:01:28,360 Speaker 1: his solo stuff is all drenched with that elvis he 1021 01:01:28,480 --> 01:01:31,080 Speaker 1: slap back. He just always wanted some kind of effect 1022 01:01:31,080 --> 01:01:33,960 Speaker 1: on his voice because he just had sounded is it 1023 01:01:34,080 --> 01:01:37,240 Speaker 1: the leslie on turn never knows? Well? That was more 1024 01:01:37,280 --> 01:01:40,360 Speaker 1: because he wanted to sound like the Dalai Lama chanting 1025 01:01:40,400 --> 01:01:42,840 Speaker 1: from a mountain top. That was that was a more 1026 01:01:42,880 --> 01:01:49,200 Speaker 1: specific yeah. Um, Apparently this Lennis person isn't the only 1027 01:01:49,200 --> 01:01:52,960 Speaker 1: one who couldn't deal with Becker and Fagan's brand of perfectionism. 1028 01:01:53,000 --> 01:01:55,640 Speaker 1: I guess when it came time to mix, an engineer 1029 01:01:55,720 --> 01:01:59,600 Speaker 1: named Bill Schneek just couldn't handle the constant What about this? 1030 01:01:59,640 --> 01:02:02,720 Speaker 1: What about that? Again? This was remixed thirteen times in 1031 01:02:02,800 --> 01:02:06,000 Speaker 1: five months, and he later said it became very obvious 1032 01:02:06,040 --> 01:02:08,240 Speaker 1: that we were both getting frustrated, and in the end 1033 01:02:08,320 --> 01:02:10,080 Speaker 1: we just shook hands and I said, good luck with 1034 01:02:10,120 --> 01:02:14,000 Speaker 1: the guys. It's gonna be a great album, which is 1035 01:02:14,040 --> 01:02:17,600 Speaker 1: good night and good luck. Yeah exactly. Um, I have 1036 01:02:17,680 --> 01:02:21,040 Speaker 1: a question for you, more of a dumb thought experiment 1037 01:02:21,080 --> 01:02:23,720 Speaker 1: than a question. This was recorded on twenty four track 1038 01:02:23,920 --> 01:02:26,840 Speaker 1: two inch tape on a cap stand list machine, which 1039 01:02:27,200 --> 01:02:29,760 Speaker 1: kept the tape even more crisp because prior to this 1040 01:02:29,880 --> 01:02:32,360 Speaker 1: tape had to be dragged across the little middle tape head, 1041 01:02:32,400 --> 01:02:35,600 Speaker 1: which inevitably degrades the tape to some degree. So much 1042 01:02:35,600 --> 01:02:37,880 Speaker 1: of the sound of this record, I assume you would 1043 01:02:37,960 --> 01:02:40,439 Speaker 1: know better than I is because they had so many 1044 01:02:40,520 --> 01:02:43,040 Speaker 1: tracks they could, you know, mike up. The drum kit 1045 01:02:43,160 --> 01:02:46,560 Speaker 1: was six or seven different mics make the mix incredibly 1046 01:02:46,640 --> 01:02:49,440 Speaker 1: precise because they had all these tracks to just to 1047 01:02:49,520 --> 01:02:51,480 Speaker 1: make it like, Okay, this is a track just for 1048 01:02:51,880 --> 01:02:55,000 Speaker 1: you know, the kid drum or something. I mean, how 1049 01:02:55,160 --> 01:02:57,520 Speaker 1: how do you think Steely Dan would have sounded if 1050 01:02:57,560 --> 01:03:00,400 Speaker 1: they were making records a decade earlier on like a 1051 01:03:00,440 --> 01:03:03,919 Speaker 1: four track? Um, I mean, I don't know, I think 1052 01:03:03,960 --> 01:03:07,640 Speaker 1: you can some of my favorite sounding records of all times, 1053 01:03:07,640 --> 01:03:10,200 Speaker 1: So those blue note records that are like the Rudy 1054 01:03:10,240 --> 01:03:14,680 Speaker 1: Van Gelder stuff recorded in UM I think Ingle Word Cliffs, 1055 01:03:14,840 --> 01:03:19,080 Speaker 1: New Jersey. It was like a famous famously engineered a 1056 01:03:19,080 --> 01:03:21,920 Speaker 1: lot of those jazz records, and I'll say that I 1057 01:03:21,960 --> 01:03:24,400 Speaker 1: think they could have gotten those scratch tracks or the 1058 01:03:24,720 --> 01:03:28,240 Speaker 1: basic tracks, like the rhythm tracks and everything like really good. 1059 01:03:28,280 --> 01:03:32,160 Speaker 1: But no, you can't bury a trash can lid in 1060 01:03:32,240 --> 01:03:35,680 Speaker 1: the mix on a tape recording this same way you 1061 01:03:35,680 --> 01:03:40,520 Speaker 1: can't digital anyway. There you go, short answer no with 1062 01:03:40,640 --> 01:03:45,680 Speaker 1: an if long answer yes with a butt. Now I'm 1063 01:03:45,720 --> 01:03:48,160 Speaker 1: nowhere near as proficient in music theory as you are, 1064 01:03:48,280 --> 01:03:51,360 Speaker 1: but purely from a listener's perspective, I want to talk 1065 01:03:51,360 --> 01:03:55,200 Speaker 1: about the chord changes on this record because they're so yeah, 1066 01:03:55,320 --> 01:03:57,760 Speaker 1: usually unexpected. But we talked a bit about this on 1067 01:03:57,800 --> 01:04:00,960 Speaker 1: the Hey episode. But there are certain stock phrases and 1068 01:04:01,000 --> 01:04:04,000 Speaker 1: progressions used in Western music that gives you a sense 1069 01:04:04,040 --> 01:04:06,200 Speaker 1: of where the melody and the chords are heading. And 1070 01:04:06,600 --> 01:04:08,840 Speaker 1: after hearing music all of our lives, it just becomes 1071 01:04:08,840 --> 01:04:11,440 Speaker 1: second nature and you know, we just can into it 1072 01:04:11,520 --> 01:04:13,680 Speaker 1: where a song is going to go when we hear 1073 01:04:14,640 --> 01:04:17,160 Speaker 1: a pattern, we just were humans. We look for patterns, 1074 01:04:17,200 --> 01:04:20,120 Speaker 1: and the most interesting songs are the ones that surprise 1075 01:04:20,240 --> 01:04:24,920 Speaker 1: us by resolving in pleasing but unexpected ways, and the 1076 01:04:24,960 --> 01:04:27,320 Speaker 1: pleasing parts where it gets tricky because you often run 1077 01:04:27,360 --> 01:04:29,520 Speaker 1: the risk of coming up with something distant and ugly. 1078 01:04:29,680 --> 01:04:32,560 Speaker 1: But when it's done right, it's really amazing. And you 1079 01:04:32,600 --> 01:04:35,280 Speaker 1: see that again and again on Asia. Think of the 1080 01:04:35,280 --> 01:04:40,160 Speaker 1: title track that I Run to you, that moment, that 1081 01:04:40,240 --> 01:04:43,600 Speaker 1: melody could go anywhere from there. There is no hint 1082 01:04:44,040 --> 01:04:47,080 Speaker 1: as to like where the song could go in just 1083 01:04:47,120 --> 01:04:50,400 Speaker 1: that little short phrase. It's beautiful enough to lure you in, 1084 01:04:50,680 --> 01:04:53,760 Speaker 1: but it gives absolutely no indication whatsoever about where the 1085 01:04:53,800 --> 01:04:56,760 Speaker 1: song is going next, which keeps you interested and curious. 1086 01:04:56,800 --> 01:04:59,479 Speaker 1: And that's you know, all the best music. It's really 1087 01:04:59,520 --> 01:05:02,600 Speaker 1: why that one in particular, Like just that phrase goes 1088 01:05:02,800 --> 01:05:06,600 Speaker 1: f G D flat C. It moves a whole step 1089 01:05:06,800 --> 01:05:09,400 Speaker 1: and then a try tone and then a half step, 1090 01:05:09,440 --> 01:05:11,840 Speaker 1: and that's how this whole song goes. I mean, the 1091 01:05:13,360 --> 01:05:17,280 Speaker 1: progression moves in whole steps and then it moves in 1092 01:05:17,360 --> 01:05:19,800 Speaker 1: half steps and a try tone. It beaks like some 1093 01:05:19,880 --> 01:05:25,680 Speaker 1: of the most weirdly dissonant intervals, but it works. Yeah yeah, 1094 01:05:26,800 --> 01:05:31,040 Speaker 1: well yeah, I mean, it's just all the key shifts 1095 01:05:31,080 --> 01:05:34,680 Speaker 1: and unresolved changes give it this edge that keeps it 1096 01:05:34,720 --> 01:05:38,680 Speaker 1: from veering into Musaki territory, which, against at the top 1097 01:05:38,720 --> 01:05:40,640 Speaker 1: of the episode, is kind of the kind of a 1098 01:05:40,680 --> 01:05:44,000 Speaker 1: hazard given how precise the recordings are on this. That 1099 01:05:44,200 --> 01:05:48,240 Speaker 1: edge comes through not only in Fagan's idiosyncratic voice and 1100 01:05:48,600 --> 01:05:53,480 Speaker 1: his kind of dark lyrics, but also these unsettled, unresolved 1101 01:05:53,560 --> 01:05:56,000 Speaker 1: chord changes. I think it's really like an important part 1102 01:05:56,000 --> 01:05:59,760 Speaker 1: of the blend um out original Critics over the years 1103 01:05:59,760 --> 01:06:03,320 Speaker 1: of accasionally saddled Steely Dan with having popularized the so 1104 01:06:03,440 --> 01:06:07,120 Speaker 1: called smooth jazz genre sub genre and whatever you wanna 1105 01:06:07,160 --> 01:06:09,600 Speaker 1: call it, or at least showed that there was money 1106 01:06:09,680 --> 01:06:13,640 Speaker 1: in smooth jazz. And Fagan has a really fascinating insight 1107 01:06:13,720 --> 01:06:16,360 Speaker 1: on this in this Dylan Jones g Q piece that 1108 01:06:16,400 --> 01:06:19,560 Speaker 1: we keep citing Decided Hate nineteen, which isn't on Asia, 1109 01:06:19,640 --> 01:06:22,160 Speaker 1: but it's still a huge song of theirs off a Gaucho. 1110 01:06:22,320 --> 01:06:24,800 Speaker 1: I just thought it was interesting to see this song 1111 01:06:25,040 --> 01:06:29,400 Speaker 1: through Donald Fagan's eyes and see the intention of these 1112 01:06:29,400 --> 01:06:32,640 Speaker 1: sonic tricks that he uses. He and Becker are always 1113 01:06:32,680 --> 01:06:36,000 Speaker 1: sort of reluctant to talk about their actually the actual 1114 01:06:36,080 --> 01:06:38,080 Speaker 1: meaning of their lyrics, so this seemed like a rare 1115 01:06:38,200 --> 01:06:40,600 Speaker 1: moment of as close to candor as we're gonna get. 1116 01:06:40,840 --> 01:06:43,080 Speaker 1: Fagan said, a lot of the effects we got were 1117 01:06:43,080 --> 01:06:46,800 Speaker 1: intended to be comic, like hey, nineteen from nineteen eighties Gaucho. 1118 01:06:47,280 --> 01:06:50,400 Speaker 1: We were in our thirties, still saddled with these enormous 1119 01:06:50,400 --> 01:06:52,800 Speaker 1: sex drives and face with the problem that you can 1120 01:06:52,880 --> 01:06:55,440 Speaker 1: no longer talk to a nineteen year old girl because 1121 01:06:55,440 --> 01:06:59,040 Speaker 1: the culture has changed. Yeah, that's why that's set. It 1122 01:06:59,080 --> 01:07:02,560 Speaker 1: gets an extremely polite little groove, and then the chorus 1123 01:07:02,640 --> 01:07:05,120 Speaker 1: is set to jazz chords, and when you play them 1124 01:07:05,120 --> 01:07:08,400 Speaker 1: on electric instruments, there's a flattening effect, a dead kind 1125 01:07:08,400 --> 01:07:11,880 Speaker 1: of sound, and it's scored for falsetto voices, which adds 1126 01:07:11,920 --> 01:07:15,600 Speaker 1: to the effect. To me, it's very funny. Other people 1127 01:07:15,640 --> 01:07:20,960 Speaker 1: find it nauseating. We're going to take a quick break, 1128 01:07:21,160 --> 01:07:23,680 Speaker 1: but we'll be right back with more. Too much information 1129 01:07:23,720 --> 01:07:39,160 Speaker 1: in just a moment. I don't know why, but I 1130 01:07:39,160 --> 01:07:41,800 Speaker 1: found this kind of sad. Denny Diaz guitarist any Dela 1131 01:07:42,000 --> 01:07:45,360 Speaker 1: Diez solo on Asia is the last time any founding 1132 01:07:45,400 --> 01:07:47,440 Speaker 1: member of the band played on one of the records. 1133 01:07:48,320 --> 01:07:50,040 Speaker 1: That's right. Yeah, he was the guy who started the 1134 01:07:50,080 --> 01:07:54,720 Speaker 1: band and invited Becker and Fagin in, and they, by 1135 01:07:54,760 --> 01:07:57,520 Speaker 1: their own admission, they took over the band. Yeah. I 1136 01:07:57,520 --> 01:07:59,440 Speaker 1: don't think I realized that for the earlier part of 1137 01:07:59,440 --> 01:08:02,640 Speaker 1: their career they really did view themselves as a proper band. 1138 01:08:02,800 --> 01:08:05,640 Speaker 1: And you know, wasn't until like seventy four with Katie 1139 01:08:05,640 --> 01:08:09,840 Speaker 1: Lie that they shifted to mostly studio players. Um, I yeah, 1140 01:08:09,920 --> 01:08:12,440 Speaker 1: I just assumed they were always sort of a faceless 1141 01:08:12,520 --> 01:08:19,360 Speaker 1: studio group. Um did Becker and Fagin play anything on Gaucho? 1142 01:08:19,439 --> 01:08:21,559 Speaker 1: That's a good question. I don't know. That's kind of 1143 01:08:21,600 --> 01:08:24,280 Speaker 1: a bind spot for me. As I mentioned, I really 1144 01:08:24,360 --> 01:08:28,080 Speaker 1: liked Cam't Buy Thrill. I don't know a ton about Gaucho. 1145 01:08:28,280 --> 01:08:30,400 Speaker 1: The title track for My Money is one of the 1146 01:08:30,400 --> 01:08:33,599 Speaker 1: worst songs they ever to. It sounds like it sounds 1147 01:08:33,600 --> 01:08:35,599 Speaker 1: like the Family Ties theme to me, like it seems 1148 01:08:35,600 --> 01:08:38,120 Speaker 1: like an eighties sitcom thing. I've never liked that album 1149 01:08:38,240 --> 01:08:40,360 Speaker 1: or I've never liked that song. It's got some good, 1150 01:08:40,439 --> 01:08:44,559 Speaker 1: good songs on it. Actually really just Bablon Sisters in 1151 01:08:44,560 --> 01:08:47,880 Speaker 1: Hey nineteen. Now that look at it. Uh. And Denny 1152 01:08:48,000 --> 01:08:53,720 Speaker 1: Diaz though, dude, bodhisattva to me, his is his triumph. 1153 01:08:54,080 --> 01:08:59,719 Speaker 1: I mean, my god, dude rips. Anyway, So, speaking of names, 1154 01:09:00,320 --> 01:09:03,120 Speaker 1: what's in the name? Uh? Speaking of names, where did 1155 01:09:03,200 --> 01:09:06,599 Speaker 1: where the hell does Asia come from? The most commonly 1156 01:09:06,600 --> 01:09:09,559 Speaker 1: accepted explanation, the one that I've seen Fagan giving the 1157 01:09:09,600 --> 01:09:11,559 Speaker 1: most often, is that it was the name of a 1158 01:09:11,680 --> 01:09:14,680 Speaker 1: Korean woman who married the brother of one of his 1159 01:09:14,760 --> 01:09:17,760 Speaker 1: high school friends. But the most that I've been able 1160 01:09:17,760 --> 01:09:21,280 Speaker 1: to pin down of that word in Korean is as 1161 01:09:21,320 --> 01:09:24,640 Speaker 1: a sort of like repeated phrase like um, like a 1162 01:09:24,680 --> 01:09:28,879 Speaker 1: sports cheer, like you would say Asia Asia in Korean 1163 01:09:29,479 --> 01:09:31,559 Speaker 1: at the end of like a long sports chance. It's 1164 01:09:31,640 --> 01:09:33,920 Speaker 1: kind of like bring it on, or like come get me, 1165 01:09:34,160 --> 01:09:37,760 Speaker 1: or if you're like a soccer hooligan, like uh, come 1166 01:09:37,800 --> 01:09:39,559 Speaker 1: and have a go if you think you're hard enough, 1167 01:09:39,760 --> 01:09:43,920 Speaker 1: like that that's sort of a thing. Um. But as 1168 01:09:43,920 --> 01:09:46,280 Speaker 1: a name is come and have a go, if you 1169 01:09:46,320 --> 01:09:50,000 Speaker 1: think you're a go, if you think are hard enough. Yeah, 1170 01:09:50,040 --> 01:09:54,559 Speaker 1: it is. Actually there's a great werewolf movie called Dog Soldiers, uh, 1171 01:09:54,560 --> 01:09:56,160 Speaker 1: and one of the guys is like a like a 1172 01:09:56,280 --> 01:09:58,240 Speaker 1: lower class whol again character and he says that to 1173 01:09:58,240 --> 01:10:01,360 Speaker 1: one of the werewolves. Uh um, And I googled it 1174 01:10:01,400 --> 01:10:03,000 Speaker 1: because I didn't know if it was like I thought. 1175 01:10:03,000 --> 01:10:04,760 Speaker 1: I didn't. I thought it was just aligned from that movie. 1176 01:10:04,800 --> 01:10:07,719 Speaker 1: Apparently it is like a thing like Northern English, Irish 1177 01:10:07,720 --> 01:10:14,639 Speaker 1: and Scottish soccer hooligans yell to other holigans. Anyway, pitting 1178 01:10:14,640 --> 01:10:17,160 Speaker 1: the origins down of Asia as a name is trickier. 1179 01:10:17,200 --> 01:10:21,120 Speaker 1: According to names dot org, multiple people pegg it as 1180 01:10:21,120 --> 01:10:24,799 Speaker 1: an African word that means high priestess, while one person 1181 01:10:24,920 --> 01:10:29,800 Speaker 1: from Croatia said it means night bird, which is really 1182 01:10:29,840 --> 01:10:33,120 Speaker 1: funny to me because Donald Fagan's well regarded solo album 1183 01:10:33,160 --> 01:10:36,479 Speaker 1: containing the hit I g Y It's called the night Fly. 1184 01:10:36,960 --> 01:10:41,200 Speaker 1: One of these other naming baby naming etymology sites, name 1185 01:10:41,360 --> 01:10:46,640 Speaker 1: mom dot com has it originating from the Greek to 1186 01:10:46,760 --> 01:10:50,880 Speaker 1: mean forest goddess. Baby names dot com i d s 1187 01:10:50,960 --> 01:10:54,960 Speaker 1: it as being of Indian origin and meaning to drive 1188 01:10:55,240 --> 01:11:00,960 Speaker 1: or propel, from which apparently derives its idiom magic translation 1189 01:11:01,120 --> 01:11:06,320 Speaker 1: in Hindu and perhaps it's literal translation in Sanskrit to 1190 01:11:06,479 --> 01:11:09,879 Speaker 1: mean goat. Just think about if Asia was just called goat. 1191 01:11:12,560 --> 01:11:18,400 Speaker 1: I mean, many people would say that steely Dan well, 1192 01:11:19,240 --> 01:11:23,400 Speaker 1: after all, that perhaps racist lee. The cover photo doesn't 1193 01:11:23,400 --> 01:11:28,880 Speaker 1: even feature anyone Koreans. The Japanese people was shot by 1194 01:11:29,000 --> 01:11:32,639 Speaker 1: Japanese photographer named Hideke Fuji. The woman on the cover 1195 01:11:32,720 --> 01:11:36,679 Speaker 1: is a Japanese model named Sayoko Yamaguchi, who was named 1196 01:11:36,680 --> 01:11:39,240 Speaker 1: one of these six top fashion Models in the World 1197 01:11:39,320 --> 01:11:42,280 Speaker 1: by Newsweek the year the record came out. Didn't know 1198 01:11:42,360 --> 01:11:44,639 Speaker 1: Newsweek was keeping track of that, but that is their 1199 01:11:45,120 --> 01:11:48,160 Speaker 1: second appearance in this podcast. Friend of the pod Newsweek, 1200 01:11:49,240 --> 01:11:55,520 Speaker 1: Ah Asia Brown, who's the mayor of Compton in California, 1201 01:11:55,560 --> 01:11:59,160 Speaker 1: was apparently named after this song UM since her mom 1202 01:11:59,240 --> 01:12:02,160 Speaker 1: was a fan of Steely and Well w n B, 1203 01:12:02,280 --> 01:12:06,000 Speaker 1: a m v P with the Las Vegas Aces. Asia 1204 01:12:06,040 --> 01:12:10,160 Speaker 1: Wilson told an interviewer that on NPR that she was 1205 01:12:10,240 --> 01:12:12,479 Speaker 1: named after the song because it was her dad's favorite. 1206 01:12:12,560 --> 01:12:17,639 Speaker 1: So there's that. Also, Asia Pecknold, who's Robin Pecknold's sister 1207 01:12:17,960 --> 01:12:22,320 Speaker 1: and manager of Fleet Foxes. There you go, three three Asias. 1208 01:12:22,479 --> 01:12:24,040 Speaker 1: But you didn't think you were getting that out of 1209 01:12:24,040 --> 01:12:28,880 Speaker 1: this UM. Convinced of this record's merit, Cats managed to 1210 01:12:28,920 --> 01:12:31,479 Speaker 1: persuade Fagin and Becker to do a little more work 1211 01:12:31,520 --> 01:12:38,120 Speaker 1: promoting this one. To wit any work because they've never 1212 01:12:38,200 --> 01:12:41,600 Speaker 1: done it before. But also taking a meeting with notorious 1213 01:12:41,680 --> 01:12:45,439 Speaker 1: power manager Irving as Off, is he a friend or 1214 01:12:45,439 --> 01:12:48,439 Speaker 1: an enemy of the pod? Well, considering he's behind the 1215 01:12:49,600 --> 01:12:52,360 Speaker 1: one of the shows I'm working on, I'm gonna say friends, 1216 01:12:52,360 --> 01:12:56,480 Speaker 1: well friend of the pod Irving as Off. Uh. He 1217 01:12:56,000 --> 01:13:01,719 Speaker 1: took my kneecaps. Please don't kill me, uh. Fagan told 1218 01:13:01,880 --> 01:13:04,679 Speaker 1: Cameron Crow we were ready to blissfully go through life 1219 01:13:04,720 --> 01:13:11,320 Speaker 1: without a manager. Yeah. Irving A's Off, huge power player. 1220 01:13:11,320 --> 01:13:14,800 Speaker 1: He managed the Eagles and was famously referenced by Don 1221 01:13:14,840 --> 01:13:17,519 Speaker 1: Henley with the immortal line, he may be satan, but 1222 01:13:17,560 --> 01:13:21,920 Speaker 1: he's our satan. As Off strategy for the record was 1223 01:13:21,960 --> 01:13:24,840 Speaker 1: simple but effective. He called all of his record store 1224 01:13:25,080 --> 01:13:29,679 Speaker 1: distributor buyer contacts and he offered them this album for 1225 01:13:29,720 --> 01:13:33,240 Speaker 1: a dollar off the list price, but that they could 1226 01:13:33,240 --> 01:13:36,559 Speaker 1: still sell it for retail. I think in the article 1227 01:13:36,600 --> 01:13:38,840 Speaker 1: he says they he offered to sell it to them 1228 01:13:38,840 --> 01:13:42,880 Speaker 1: at six, they could sell it at seven, and he 1229 01:13:42,920 --> 01:13:45,479 Speaker 1: said they all bought two, three, four times as many 1230 01:13:45,479 --> 01:13:48,639 Speaker 1: as normally. And I told them that offer would last 1231 01:13:48,680 --> 01:13:52,360 Speaker 1: two weeks, which worked. You don't give people a limited 1232 01:13:52,360 --> 01:13:56,960 Speaker 1: amount of time for discounted price. That's just basic sales. Uh. 1233 01:13:57,439 --> 01:13:59,760 Speaker 1: Cameron Crow asked him in that interview, He's like, hey, 1234 01:13:59,800 --> 01:14:02,800 Speaker 1: can you put me in contact with the guys? And 1235 01:14:03,080 --> 01:14:06,439 Speaker 1: as Off says, they could be anywhere. They haven't returned 1236 01:14:06,520 --> 01:14:11,000 Speaker 1: any calls in weeks. When those guys go underground, they disappear. 1237 01:14:11,479 --> 01:14:15,719 Speaker 1: I get no special privileges. They probably don't even realize 1238 01:14:15,760 --> 01:14:19,680 Speaker 1: they have a huge album. They truly don't give a 1239 01:14:19,880 --> 01:14:25,559 Speaker 1: damn no no. They were notorious for hating interviews. When 1240 01:14:25,600 --> 01:14:29,280 Speaker 1: the record label requested that they up their profile, they 1241 01:14:29,360 --> 01:14:32,000 Speaker 1: responded by including a fake interview with each other. As 1242 01:14:32,040 --> 01:14:36,160 Speaker 1: Liner notes, their whole persona is that they're, you know, 1243 01:14:36,200 --> 01:14:39,639 Speaker 1: the original hipsters, their precocious suburban kids on the hunt 1244 01:14:39,720 --> 01:14:43,160 Speaker 1: for weed, jazz and beat literature, and your re interviews 1245 01:14:43,160 --> 01:14:46,680 Speaker 1: with them. Unlike the rest of the music industry, who 1246 01:14:46,720 --> 01:14:50,320 Speaker 1: try to prove how utterly sincere they are, they seem 1247 01:14:50,360 --> 01:14:53,640 Speaker 1: to like almost get off by presenting themselves as insincere. 1248 01:14:54,320 --> 01:14:56,040 Speaker 1: And there shows up in their lyrics too. I mean 1249 01:14:56,040 --> 01:14:59,760 Speaker 1: they're often just passionate and sarcastic. And the writer Dylan 1250 01:14:59,840 --> 01:15:02,880 Speaker 1: Joe Owns had this great line. Fagan always seemed like 1251 01:15:02,920 --> 01:15:06,400 Speaker 1: he was singing with one eyebrow raised, which is I mean, 1252 01:15:06,439 --> 01:15:08,559 Speaker 1: my favorite is brilliant. In the years, you've been telling 1253 01:15:08,600 --> 01:15:11,080 Speaker 1: me a genius since you were seventeen, and all the 1254 01:15:11,120 --> 01:15:13,240 Speaker 1: time I've known you, I still don't know what you mean. 1255 01:15:15,200 --> 01:15:20,040 Speaker 1: Everybody knows that guy, though everybody knows somebody like that. Uh. 1256 01:15:20,160 --> 01:15:25,200 Speaker 1: Dylan Jones also calls Fagan a professional grouch. Yes, the 1257 01:15:25,200 --> 01:15:28,120 Speaker 1: Fagan and Becker do not seem like likable people. They're 1258 01:15:28,160 --> 01:15:31,280 Speaker 1: just sneering at the world while spending ungodly amounts of 1259 01:15:31,320 --> 01:15:34,160 Speaker 1: money on their musical whims. Even during their time in 1260 01:15:34,320 --> 01:15:37,360 Speaker 1: l A Recording, they were always extremely detached from the 1261 01:15:37,439 --> 01:15:40,439 Speaker 1: music scene, and they rented houses that in Malibu away 1262 01:15:40,479 --> 01:15:44,559 Speaker 1: from everyone. They privately referred to l A as planet stupid, 1263 01:15:44,760 --> 01:15:48,400 Speaker 1: which I find yes. Uh. They claimed that they would 1264 01:15:48,400 --> 01:15:51,720 Speaker 1: always consider themselves New Yorkers because, as Fagan later told 1265 01:15:51,800 --> 01:15:55,960 Speaker 1: Musician magazine, New York is the depository for misfit Americans. 1266 01:15:56,200 --> 01:15:58,519 Speaker 1: There's a reason that we're here and why we don't 1267 01:15:58,560 --> 01:16:04,080 Speaker 1: live in Cincinnati and steely Dan uh just basically perfectly 1268 01:16:04,200 --> 01:16:08,240 Speaker 1: fused West Coast cool with East Coast cynicism. As one 1269 01:16:08,280 --> 01:16:12,880 Speaker 1: critic said, there the Eagles meets witty Allen. I yeah, 1270 01:16:13,040 --> 01:16:16,080 Speaker 1: very fair, and this is probably why they never wore 1271 01:16:16,120 --> 01:16:18,679 Speaker 1: the mantle of fame very easily. It just went against 1272 01:16:18,720 --> 01:16:21,519 Speaker 1: their whole psyche. They kind of needed to be the uh, 1273 01:16:21,560 --> 01:16:23,439 Speaker 1: you know, the wise guys in the back of the 1274 01:16:23,520 --> 01:16:26,599 Speaker 1: class that was just making fun of everybody. Steely Dan 1275 01:16:26,720 --> 01:16:30,280 Speaker 1: have often been described as a major bands behaving like 1276 01:16:30,320 --> 01:16:32,720 Speaker 1: they were a cult act, which I feel like is 1277 01:16:32,760 --> 01:16:36,840 Speaker 1: a very telling way to view their cannon uh. And 1278 01:16:36,880 --> 01:16:38,920 Speaker 1: maybe that was the secret to their success. It made 1279 01:16:38,920 --> 01:16:41,679 Speaker 1: people feel cool by listening to them. I'd ever did. 1280 01:16:41,760 --> 01:16:46,439 Speaker 1: But Asia was in fact huge, at least on their 1281 01:16:47,200 --> 01:16:49,800 Speaker 1: standard of success, within three weeks of coming out and 1282 01:16:49,960 --> 01:16:53,000 Speaker 1: reached the top five of the Billboard two D ultimately 1283 01:16:53,040 --> 01:16:56,519 Speaker 1: peaked at number three to become the band's highest peaking 1284 01:16:56,680 --> 01:17:01,080 Speaker 1: album on the chart, eventually going double platinum. Right on 1285 01:17:01,160 --> 01:17:03,120 Speaker 1: Spin that it was their only album to break a 1286 01:17:03,160 --> 01:17:07,519 Speaker 1: million copies, which I find really surprising. But I don't know, 1287 01:17:07,640 --> 01:17:09,559 Speaker 1: And again, I guess I can't imagine like Katie Live 1288 01:17:09,640 --> 01:17:12,160 Speaker 1: or Pretzel Logic gum platinum, So I mean, I guess 1289 01:17:12,200 --> 01:17:15,840 Speaker 1: it might have been I have been singles and greatest hits. Yeah, 1290 01:17:16,000 --> 01:17:18,080 Speaker 1: I was gonna say I feel that I can't buy 1291 01:17:18,080 --> 01:17:21,840 Speaker 1: a thrill maybe, but that could have been singles though, 1292 01:17:21,880 --> 01:17:25,200 Speaker 1: because do it again and in the years really than 1293 01:17:25,240 --> 01:17:29,000 Speaker 1: the years would have been singles. Yeah. Anyway, peg the 1294 01:17:29,040 --> 01:17:31,840 Speaker 1: first single nearly cracked the top ten, but stayed on 1295 01:17:31,880 --> 01:17:35,000 Speaker 1: the chart for nineteen weeks, tying with Ricky Don't lose 1296 01:17:35,040 --> 01:17:38,280 Speaker 1: that number in Hay nineteen as Steely Dan's longest running 1297 01:17:38,320 --> 01:17:41,920 Speaker 1: chart hit, Deacon Blues the second crack the top twenty, 1298 01:17:41,960 --> 01:17:45,320 Speaker 1: and Josie went to number twenty six. Uh, just a 1299 01:17:45,680 --> 01:17:49,800 Speaker 1: hilarious for instance of where Steelie Dan found themselves at 1300 01:17:49,800 --> 01:17:54,519 Speaker 1: the time, the village voices seven tazan chop pole, which 1301 01:17:54,560 --> 01:17:56,840 Speaker 1: was that was a critics only poll, right, I think? 1302 01:17:56,880 --> 01:17:58,479 Speaker 1: So it was like the thing was just like a 1303 01:17:58,560 --> 01:18:02,080 Speaker 1: survey of the top critic goal responses the year. Asia 1304 01:18:02,120 --> 01:18:05,679 Speaker 1: went number five and seventy seven, surrounded by never mind 1305 01:18:05,800 --> 01:18:10,120 Speaker 1: the Bollocks, by the Six Pistols, Elvis Costella is my 1306 01:18:10,200 --> 01:18:13,960 Speaker 1: aim is true, Graham Parker and the Rumor, The Jam 1307 01:18:14,000 --> 01:18:17,720 Speaker 1: television's markis Moon, the Ramones, Rocket to Russia, and the 1308 01:18:17,800 --> 01:18:21,800 Speaker 1: Talking Heads. So that's like three icons of New York 1309 01:18:21,880 --> 01:18:26,400 Speaker 1: City Downtown cool one ground zero for UK Punk and 1310 01:18:28,640 --> 01:18:33,120 Speaker 1: also Graham Parker just if you wanted the illustration of 1311 01:18:33,120 --> 01:18:36,240 Speaker 1: how out of step they were. There was a small 1312 01:18:36,280 --> 01:18:40,519 Speaker 1: dissenting note though, from Robert christ Gal. Of course, uh 1313 01:18:40,560 --> 01:18:43,240 Speaker 1: He was a mostly positive review, but he described some 1314 01:18:43,280 --> 01:18:48,439 Speaker 1: of the riffs as two effing tasty. He was correct, 1315 01:18:50,439 --> 01:18:52,679 Speaker 1: But you're right. This was the year of punk and disco, 1316 01:18:52,920 --> 01:18:55,479 Speaker 1: and it's hard to stress just how incredibly weird this 1317 01:18:55,560 --> 01:18:58,880 Speaker 1: album was for its time. Michael Duffy's review in Rolling 1318 01:18:58,920 --> 01:19:01,519 Speaker 1: Stones set the tone for many of the criticisms for 1319 01:19:01,560 --> 01:19:05,720 Speaker 1: this album. In the band uh Asia will continue to 1320 01:19:05,760 --> 01:19:08,920 Speaker 1: fuel the argument by rock purists that steely dance music 1321 01:19:09,000 --> 01:19:12,760 Speaker 1: is soulless and, by its calculated nature, anathetical to what 1322 01:19:12,880 --> 01:19:16,720 Speaker 1: rock should be. How do you feel about that? It 1323 01:19:16,880 --> 01:19:22,439 Speaker 1: is not rock music? Like, I don't think they're rock 1324 01:19:22,960 --> 01:19:26,720 Speaker 1: in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame definition. It's 1325 01:19:27,880 --> 01:19:30,559 Speaker 1: it's not chuck very you dude. But like it's got 1326 01:19:30,560 --> 01:19:33,560 Speaker 1: a back beat. I mean you can dance to it. 1327 01:19:35,400 --> 01:19:36,920 Speaker 1: The kids can just kind of beating. The kids can 1328 01:19:37,000 --> 01:19:40,599 Speaker 1: answer no, I mean interesting. It is a very they 1329 01:19:40,600 --> 01:19:43,320 Speaker 1: are sort of frozen in time because they are very 1330 01:19:43,400 --> 01:19:49,200 Speaker 1: much the white hipster revolution of the fifties exemplified by 1331 01:19:49,200 --> 01:19:53,800 Speaker 1: like Norman Mailer and William Burrows and the Beats. But 1332 01:19:53,840 --> 01:19:58,400 Speaker 1: they also got like, you know, real deal black musicians 1333 01:19:58,439 --> 01:20:00,760 Speaker 1: to play on these records, and I mean they have 1334 01:20:01,080 --> 01:20:06,280 Speaker 1: been Chuck Rainey and Bernard pretty Pretty and Wayne Shorter, 1335 01:20:06,479 --> 01:20:10,320 Speaker 1: like those are their peers just in black music. So 1336 01:20:11,120 --> 01:20:13,519 Speaker 1: in a way they are kind of they are what 1337 01:20:13,640 --> 01:20:16,439 Speaker 1: rock and roll was, like they are a fusion of 1338 01:20:16,520 --> 01:20:21,000 Speaker 1: white culture and black culture. And yeah, it's very clinical, 1339 01:20:21,240 --> 01:20:24,120 Speaker 1: but I don't know that's what it is. And this 1340 01:20:24,200 --> 01:20:26,960 Speaker 1: was only like twenty years after rock became a thing. 1341 01:20:27,240 --> 01:20:30,479 Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's also you know, I thought about 1342 01:20:30,520 --> 01:20:34,200 Speaker 1: this in the Grease thing, Like I feel like rock 1343 01:20:34,240 --> 01:20:36,120 Speaker 1: and roll, as we really think of it as a 1344 01:20:36,240 --> 01:20:41,000 Speaker 1: uniquely American thing, doesn't really get codified until the sixties. 1345 01:20:41,200 --> 01:20:43,800 Speaker 1: Like a lot of fifties rock and roll is still 1346 01:20:43,840 --> 01:20:47,520 Speaker 1: extraordinarily white because it's coming from country music and rockabilly, 1347 01:20:47,600 --> 01:20:50,320 Speaker 1: like we didn't really let I mean, like everyone talks 1348 01:20:50,320 --> 01:20:53,240 Speaker 1: about Rocket eighty eight, and everyone talks about like, you know, 1349 01:20:54,080 --> 01:20:56,840 Speaker 1: soul music and do open, like those things don't really 1350 01:20:56,840 --> 01:21:01,600 Speaker 1: get integrated, and yeah, exact it was completely separate. That 1351 01:21:01,600 --> 01:21:05,559 Speaker 1: stuff really doesn't get integrated until the sixties, you know, right, 1352 01:21:05,800 --> 01:21:07,760 Speaker 1: am I I had a pocket and saying that, no, 1353 01:21:08,000 --> 01:21:11,160 Speaker 1: that's that's fair. I think towards the late fifties it 1354 01:21:11,280 --> 01:21:14,000 Speaker 1: started to cross over a little bit more. But I 1355 01:21:14,040 --> 01:21:16,639 Speaker 1: mean you'd see it in things like The Girl Can't 1356 01:21:16,680 --> 01:21:19,479 Speaker 1: Help It, that I should check this. But the first 1357 01:21:19,640 --> 01:21:23,760 Speaker 1: big budget rock movie, the one with um Jane Mansfield 1358 01:21:23,800 --> 01:21:27,160 Speaker 1: and Tom Yuele, it was like big Technicolor wide screen 1359 01:21:27,280 --> 01:21:29,479 Speaker 1: kind of deal and you had I mean, little Richard 1360 01:21:29,479 --> 01:21:31,479 Speaker 1: did the theme for that, and so I mean that 1361 01:21:31,560 --> 01:21:34,519 Speaker 1: was a big Hollywood movie. So I mean he started 1362 01:21:34,520 --> 01:21:36,519 Speaker 1: by the end of the decade started seeing it more 1363 01:21:37,200 --> 01:21:40,519 Speaker 1: Ed Sullivan, the Nightly Sunday night variety show type stuff. 1364 01:21:40,840 --> 01:21:43,200 Speaker 1: But yeah, I mean, I do your your points well taken. 1365 01:21:43,360 --> 01:21:49,040 Speaker 1: It was definitely it's still fifteen twenty years you know. Um. Anyway, 1366 01:21:49,600 --> 01:21:53,520 Speaker 1: the only Grammy this record, one out of its many nominations, 1367 01:21:53,600 --> 01:21:57,160 Speaker 1: was for engineering, which is, you know, funny considering as 1368 01:21:57,160 --> 01:22:00,880 Speaker 1: we talked about earlier for years that preferred demo disc 1369 01:22:00,960 --> 01:22:06,320 Speaker 1: of high end stereo shops everywhere. Um, and I must always, 1370 01:22:07,120 --> 01:22:10,320 Speaker 1: as as I always do, note that in the Library 1371 01:22:10,360 --> 01:22:14,320 Speaker 1: of Congress selected Asia for preservation in the National Recording Registry. 1372 01:22:14,720 --> 01:22:18,880 Speaker 1: I always just think that's funny. Steely Dan is in 1373 01:22:18,960 --> 01:22:22,519 Speaker 1: the Library of Congress. Well, I have a brief it 1374 01:22:22,600 --> 01:22:26,880 Speaker 1: belongs in museum segment. Apparently the masters for the title 1375 01:22:26,920 --> 01:22:30,880 Speaker 1: track of Asia and Black Cow have gone missing, and 1376 01:22:30,920 --> 01:22:33,240 Speaker 1: that makes it impossible to do surround sound versions of 1377 01:22:33,280 --> 01:22:35,560 Speaker 1: these tracks, and I imagine makes it really tough to 1378 01:22:35,640 --> 01:22:38,360 Speaker 1: remix too. Uh. In the lighter notes for the stereo 1379 01:22:38,439 --> 01:22:42,559 Speaker 1: remaster of the Asia album, Steely Dan offered a six 1380 01:22:42,640 --> 01:22:46,800 Speaker 1: hundred dollar reward for information leading to their return. She's 1381 01:22:46,880 --> 01:22:50,600 Speaker 1: like so little. That's like Lauren Michael's like offering the 1382 01:22:50,640 --> 01:22:54,040 Speaker 1: Beatles three thousand dollars to reunite. Like that's that's almost 1383 01:22:54,040 --> 01:22:57,280 Speaker 1: seems insulting. Um, you touched on this at the top 1384 01:22:57,320 --> 01:23:00,519 Speaker 1: of the episode, but I was really unaware of the 1385 01:23:00,640 --> 01:23:04,040 Speaker 1: anti Dan sentiment, uh, or at least that it was 1386 01:23:04,120 --> 01:23:06,960 Speaker 1: as strong as it was. The Pitchfork review for two 1387 01:23:07,000 --> 01:23:11,360 Speaker 1: thousand's Two Against Nature was pretty savage. Oh yeah. It 1388 01:23:11,479 --> 01:23:15,000 Speaker 1: opens with if you're a regular Pitchfork reader, why are 1389 01:23:15,000 --> 01:23:17,719 Speaker 1: you even so curious about Steely Dan in two thousand, 1390 01:23:17,920 --> 01:23:21,840 Speaker 1: before concluding with people fought and died so our generation 1391 01:23:21,880 --> 01:23:27,479 Speaker 1: could listen to something better than Steely Tan who fought 1392 01:23:27,479 --> 01:23:30,479 Speaker 1: and died. Okay, well there's been the Yamo. There's a 1393 01:23:30,520 --> 01:23:33,200 Speaker 1: Fortio Virgin line too about where they come after Michael 1394 01:23:33,240 --> 01:23:36,360 Speaker 1: McDonald for Yamo be there. I have to hear Yamo 1395 01:23:36,360 --> 01:23:38,280 Speaker 1: be there one more time. I'm gonna yamo burned this 1396 01:23:38,320 --> 01:23:42,479 Speaker 1: place to the ground. I love Michael McDonald. Why didn't 1397 01:23:42,479 --> 01:23:44,680 Speaker 1: you dask me to do Michael McDonald pressure? Can you 1398 01:23:44,720 --> 01:23:49,519 Speaker 1: will do it? Um? Well, there's now you're choking. Yeah, 1399 01:23:49,640 --> 01:23:53,000 Speaker 1: I'm choking. I just go, yeah, you did that to you. 1400 01:23:54,640 --> 01:24:06,240 Speaker 1: Oh total moved. Pick just the Rick Moraines SCTV. But 1401 01:24:06,400 --> 01:24:10,320 Speaker 1: where he's like he's literally driving from studio to studio 1402 01:24:10,439 --> 01:24:16,720 Speaker 1: just to like belly up to a mic and be like, oh, 1403 01:24:17,160 --> 01:24:20,559 Speaker 1: I told you my my Michael McDonald's story. I don't 1404 01:24:20,600 --> 01:24:22,800 Speaker 1: think so, No, I don't really. Oh man, I thought 1405 01:24:22,800 --> 01:24:25,640 Speaker 1: I told you this. He had gotten back with the 1406 01:24:25,720 --> 01:24:27,920 Speaker 1: Doobie Brothers or he was singing with the Dubie Brothers, 1407 01:24:27,960 --> 01:24:29,479 Speaker 1: I don't know which, and they were going on on 1408 01:24:29,640 --> 01:24:34,439 Speaker 1: tour and yeah, yeah, oh yeah, they were in fact 1409 01:24:34,520 --> 01:24:37,000 Speaker 1: taking it to the streets. They were exactly, yeah, exactly. 1410 01:24:37,240 --> 01:24:40,800 Speaker 1: And I was interviewing all of them and whatever. The 1411 01:24:40,920 --> 01:24:43,280 Speaker 1: lead guy from the Doobie Brothers, he was in a 1412 01:24:43,280 --> 01:24:45,880 Speaker 1: pissy mood and he kept like I would ask a 1413 01:24:46,000 --> 01:24:49,680 Speaker 1: question and he would always intentionally like misinterpret it to 1414 01:24:49,760 --> 01:24:52,559 Speaker 1: try to like, I don't know, just he wanted an 1415 01:24:52,560 --> 01:24:55,040 Speaker 1: excuse to go off on somebody and like put somebody 1416 01:24:55,040 --> 01:24:57,519 Speaker 1: in their place. And I was like twenty three, and 1417 01:24:57,680 --> 01:25:00,840 Speaker 1: I'd spent days researching them as I always do, and 1418 01:25:00,840 --> 01:25:02,679 Speaker 1: I knew what I was talking about, but for some reason, 1419 01:25:02,680 --> 01:25:04,679 Speaker 1: he was just in a bad mood. And then finally, 1420 01:25:04,680 --> 01:25:07,360 Speaker 1: after this happening like three times, Michael McDonald was like, 1421 01:25:07,680 --> 01:25:11,599 Speaker 1: come on, Tom, he nobody meant and then he like 1422 01:25:11,680 --> 01:25:14,519 Speaker 1: went up to me afterwards like kind of like it 1423 01:25:14,680 --> 01:25:17,160 Speaker 1: was extra nice to me, which I took us an apology, 1424 01:25:17,200 --> 01:25:22,760 Speaker 1: which is very nice. She was really sweet, sweet Michael McDonald. Oh, 1425 01:25:22,840 --> 01:25:26,680 Speaker 1: that makes me love him so much. Um anyway, so 1426 01:25:26,800 --> 01:25:29,479 Speaker 1: he's The critical appraisal of the album is swung back 1427 01:25:29,520 --> 01:25:33,160 Speaker 1: around with a new generation of musicians, notably Mac DeMarco. 1428 01:25:33,280 --> 01:25:36,880 Speaker 1: When I saw Mac DeMarco Pitchfork Festival, he just closed 1429 01:25:36,960 --> 01:25:41,680 Speaker 1: his set with just the outro section of Reeling in 1430 01:25:41,680 --> 01:25:47,240 Speaker 1: the Years, like keep No he played all of his 1431 01:25:47,320 --> 01:25:49,479 Speaker 1: hits and then the whole band just went into the 1432 01:25:49,800 --> 01:25:55,479 Speaker 1: but now like just the outro. It was incredible. Um anyway, 1433 01:25:55,800 --> 01:25:58,479 Speaker 1: for a long time, the biggest shadow this record cast 1434 01:25:58,479 --> 01:26:02,720 Speaker 1: and popular music was Treasure Trove of Samples. PEG was 1435 01:26:02,760 --> 01:26:07,120 Speaker 1: sampled by De La Soul for their iconic record Three 1436 01:26:07,120 --> 01:26:10,080 Speaker 1: Feet High and Rising. Yeah, that's how a lot of DJs, 1437 01:26:10,120 --> 01:26:13,479 Speaker 1: I think Mark Ronson Uh being one of them, first 1438 01:26:13,479 --> 01:26:17,960 Speaker 1: came across. Steely Dan and Black Cow famously sample do 1439 01:26:17,960 --> 01:26:21,360 Speaker 1: you know what do you grow up drinking? Black cows? No? Actually, 1440 01:26:21,360 --> 01:26:24,559 Speaker 1: surprisingly that's a bit of like mid century Americana kits 1441 01:26:24,640 --> 01:26:27,519 Speaker 1: that that's the thing my dians did. I grew up, Yeah, 1442 01:26:27,600 --> 01:26:31,080 Speaker 1: coke and milk or or root beer and milk, black 1443 01:26:31,160 --> 01:26:34,000 Speaker 1: or brown cow. It's like a soda fountain thing. Oh, 1444 01:26:34,040 --> 01:26:36,160 Speaker 1: I thought it was like a like a root beer float. 1445 01:26:36,200 --> 01:26:38,280 Speaker 1: Instead of root beer, it was coke. Although I guess 1446 01:26:38,280 --> 01:26:41,280 Speaker 1: it's a regional difference thing. I've heard both. Yeah, I 1447 01:26:41,640 --> 01:26:43,840 Speaker 1: think you do milk instead of just ice cream, so 1448 01:26:43,880 --> 01:26:46,360 Speaker 1: it's not like it's not like the solid ice cream. 1449 01:26:46,400 --> 01:26:50,759 Speaker 1: It's this anyway, Uh, sampled twice prominently, once by Beyonce 1450 01:26:51,160 --> 01:26:53,920 Speaker 1: on the J TI remix of two thousand four is Me, 1451 01:26:54,040 --> 01:26:57,200 Speaker 1: Myself and I and once more Famously and more depressingly 1452 01:26:57,880 --> 01:27:01,360 Speaker 1: by for the song Deja Vu Town Baby by Lord 1453 01:27:01,400 --> 01:27:05,439 Speaker 1: Tarik and Peter gunns Uh. In exchange for clearing the 1454 01:27:05,560 --> 01:27:09,040 Speaker 1: use of that sample, Steely Dan requested not just a 1455 01:27:09,240 --> 01:27:13,200 Speaker 1: hundred and fifteen grand up front, but a hundred percent 1456 01:27:13,320 --> 01:27:18,360 Speaker 1: of publishing royalties, which makes them the sole credited songwriters 1457 01:27:18,439 --> 01:27:23,479 Speaker 1: on that song. Peter Guns called this a stick up, which, yeah, 1458 01:27:24,280 --> 01:27:28,120 Speaker 1: it's not wrong. Uh. Fagan told g Q the Tarik 1459 01:27:28,200 --> 01:27:32,799 Speaker 1: and Guns technically also stole the sample from another hip hopper. 1460 01:27:33,200 --> 01:27:36,600 Speaker 1: Uh so quote the sample had already been licensed for 1461 01:27:36,640 --> 01:27:39,280 Speaker 1: Puff Daddy and Maze, which is really funny to be 1462 01:27:39,280 --> 01:27:41,120 Speaker 1: because this would have been right around the whole Puff 1463 01:27:41,200 --> 01:27:47,599 Speaker 1: Daddy and Maze cultural dominance moment um faking goes on. 1464 01:27:47,760 --> 01:27:50,240 Speaker 1: We actually heard that Puff Daddy was riding around in 1465 01:27:50,280 --> 01:27:54,160 Speaker 1: a limit with Lenny Kravitz and went crazy when he 1466 01:27:54,160 --> 01:27:58,280 Speaker 1: heard it, saying they stole my sample. Uh. That's my 1467 01:27:58,520 --> 01:28:01,880 Speaker 1: version of Peter Jack's an eight hour documentary. I need 1468 01:28:01,920 --> 01:28:05,360 Speaker 1: eight hours on Puff Daddy and Letty Kravitz riding around 1469 01:28:05,400 --> 01:28:09,080 Speaker 1: in a limo in seven being upset that they're steely 1470 01:28:09,160 --> 01:28:13,559 Speaker 1: Dan sample was taken out from under the feet. I guess. 1471 01:28:13,600 --> 01:28:17,000 Speaker 1: Becker and Fagan were given an award from ASCAP for 1472 01:28:17,080 --> 01:28:20,320 Speaker 1: this Peter Gunns song that they didn't actually write, but 1473 01:28:20,439 --> 01:28:23,040 Speaker 1: as Caps suggested, they stay home and mail them the 1474 01:28:23,120 --> 01:28:25,920 Speaker 1: plaques because there have been some violence the year before, 1475 01:28:26,280 --> 01:28:29,040 Speaker 1: and they were basically afraid that Peter Gunns would have 1476 01:28:29,120 --> 01:28:32,600 Speaker 1: some kind of clash with Puff Daddy and May's, or 1477 01:28:32,640 --> 01:28:34,920 Speaker 1: maybe he would clash with Becker and Fagan. I don't know, 1478 01:28:35,120 --> 01:28:38,719 Speaker 1: but honestly, that would be hilarious sad PostScript to steely 1479 01:28:38,800 --> 01:28:43,200 Speaker 1: Dan if they were shot to death in a one 1480 01:28:43,280 --> 01:28:47,400 Speaker 1: hit wonder hip hop man. Uh. Though there are dozens 1481 01:28:47,439 --> 01:28:49,920 Speaker 1: of other examples, probably the most famous Dan sample in 1482 01:28:49,960 --> 01:28:53,679 Speaker 1: recent memory was Kandye West pulling Kid Charlemagne for two 1483 01:28:53,680 --> 01:28:58,080 Speaker 1: thousand seven Champion, although um that beat was actually built 1484 01:28:58,080 --> 01:29:01,560 Speaker 1: by his producer Brian all Day Miller. Uh. There's a 1485 01:29:01,640 --> 01:29:05,719 Speaker 1: really cute story behind this. Fagan said, Kanye actually sent 1486 01:29:05,800 --> 01:29:08,840 Speaker 1: us a sample of his tunes, and frankly, Walter and 1487 01:29:08,880 --> 01:29:10,840 Speaker 1: I listened to it, and although we'd love some of 1488 01:29:10,880 --> 01:29:13,599 Speaker 1: the income, neither of us particularly like what he had 1489 01:29:13,640 --> 01:29:16,479 Speaker 1: done with it. We said no at first. Then he 1490 01:29:16,520 --> 01:29:19,320 Speaker 1: wrote us a handwritten letter that was kind of touching 1491 01:29:20,000 --> 01:29:22,519 Speaker 1: about how the song was about his father, and he said, 1492 01:29:22,680 --> 01:29:24,599 Speaker 1: I love your stuff and I really want to use 1493 01:29:24,640 --> 01:29:27,160 Speaker 1: it because it's a very personal thing for me. It 1494 01:29:27,240 --> 01:29:29,519 Speaker 1: was such a good letter we said, all right, go ahead, 1495 01:29:29,680 --> 01:29:33,559 Speaker 1: and we made a deal with him. The only person 1496 01:29:33,640 --> 01:29:35,880 Speaker 1: that Becker and Fagan have been nice to other than 1497 01:29:35,920 --> 01:29:41,160 Speaker 1: Wayne Shorter Kanye Um. Sadly, Walter Becker passed away in 1498 01:29:41,600 --> 01:29:46,120 Speaker 1: Seen at sixty seven of esophagio cancer. The New York 1499 01:29:46,120 --> 01:29:48,559 Speaker 1: Times wrote in his oh bit that with steely Dan 1500 01:29:49,080 --> 01:29:53,480 Speaker 1: Becker changed the vocabulary of pop in the nineties seventies, 1501 01:29:53,840 --> 01:29:57,160 Speaker 1: and tributes to him poured in from artists as wide 1502 01:29:57,240 --> 01:30:01,800 Speaker 1: ranging as Mac DeMarco, Beck Quest Love, Ni Rodgers, The 1503 01:30:01,840 --> 01:30:07,639 Speaker 1: Mountain Goats, John Darnill, Best Coast, Bethany Constantino, Jason Isabel Tully, 1504 01:30:07,800 --> 01:30:11,320 Speaker 1: Quality and producer Just Blaze. On the other end of 1505 01:30:11,320 --> 01:30:14,679 Speaker 1: the spectrum, they've also been praised by Judd Apataw, who's 1506 01:30:14,720 --> 01:30:17,960 Speaker 1: called them a bottomless pit of joy. Yet I cannot 1507 01:30:18,000 --> 01:30:23,040 Speaker 1: imagine that Donald Fagan gives a damn about any of this. Nope. 1508 01:30:23,720 --> 01:30:27,680 Speaker 1: Once a Milwaukee reporter asked him, or force is the 1509 01:30:27,680 --> 01:30:30,920 Speaker 1: word I actually see us more often? Becker to listen 1510 01:30:30,960 --> 01:30:33,559 Speaker 1: to Grizzly Bear, who are a group who cited Steely 1511 01:30:33,640 --> 01:30:36,599 Speaker 1: Dan as a major influence. Becker did and pronounced them 1512 01:30:36,640 --> 01:30:40,719 Speaker 1: quote horrible and said that he should quote drop science 1513 01:30:40,840 --> 01:30:44,280 Speaker 1: on them, which I don't even I don't even fully 1514 01:30:44,280 --> 01:30:48,840 Speaker 1: get it that means. But that's brutal all the same. Uh, 1515 01:30:49,000 --> 01:30:52,400 Speaker 1: he can be vicious. When Rolling Stone asked him to 1516 01:30:52,479 --> 01:30:55,000 Speaker 1: keep a diary for his trip to Coach Hell, he wrote, 1517 01:30:55,280 --> 01:30:57,920 Speaker 1: after hearing a few bands, I noticed that many of 1518 01:30:57,920 --> 01:31:00,160 Speaker 1: them sounded a lot like the folk rock band of 1519 01:31:00,200 --> 01:31:02,080 Speaker 1: the sixties that were born in the wake of Bob 1520 01:31:02,160 --> 01:31:06,240 Speaker 1: Dylan's electric switch over, only louder and dumber. At least, 1521 01:31:06,280 --> 01:31:08,120 Speaker 1: hip hop, which is tough for me to listen to, 1522 01:31:08,439 --> 01:31:11,200 Speaker 1: has got a few genuine eccentrics with street energy and 1523 01:31:11,280 --> 01:31:14,920 Speaker 1: something to say. In Vega's own tribute to his creative partner, 1524 01:31:15,000 --> 01:31:18,479 Speaker 1: he wrote that Becker was smart as a whip, an 1525 01:31:18,520 --> 01:31:22,080 Speaker 1: excellent guitarist, and a great songwriter, and he added that 1526 01:31:22,360 --> 01:31:25,840 Speaker 1: while Becker was cynical about human nature, including his own, 1527 01:31:26,160 --> 01:31:30,040 Speaker 1: he was hysterically funny, adding that he had the knack 1528 01:31:30,080 --> 01:31:35,280 Speaker 1: of creative mimicry, reading people's hidden psychology, and transforming what 1529 01:31:35,360 --> 01:31:39,559 Speaker 1: he saw into bubbly incisive art. As far as Fagan 1530 01:31:39,680 --> 01:31:44,000 Speaker 1: is concerned, that is practically a full on, grabbed the handkerchief, 1531 01:31:44,520 --> 01:31:52,200 Speaker 1: snob nosed tearful Oscars tribute. Uh. They afore mentioned missile 1532 01:31:52,240 --> 01:31:57,960 Speaker 1: defense consultant and guitarist Jeff Skunk Baxter equipped in a 1533 01:31:58,000 --> 01:32:01,720 Speaker 1: band like Steely Dan couldn't get a rested today. Um, 1534 01:32:02,240 --> 01:32:06,479 Speaker 1: he was right. WILLIAMS Burrows, who you will remember the 1535 01:32:06,479 --> 01:32:09,960 Speaker 1: band named themselves after a sex toy and Burrows naked lunch, 1536 01:32:10,439 --> 01:32:14,120 Speaker 1: was asked about Steely Dan in nine. He says, these 1537 01:32:14,160 --> 01:32:18,720 Speaker 1: people are too fancy, they're too sophisticated. They're doing too 1538 01:32:18,800 --> 01:32:23,120 Speaker 1: many things at once in a song that should have 1539 01:32:23,120 --> 01:32:26,240 Speaker 1: been their greatest Hits title. Too many things at once 1540 01:32:26,360 --> 01:32:30,280 Speaker 1: in a song. Yeah. Um, I love this quote from 1541 01:32:30,280 --> 01:32:32,960 Speaker 1: Walter Becker. I'm just talking to Time out in New 1542 01:32:33,040 --> 01:32:35,120 Speaker 1: York in two thousand eleven. He said, that's sort of 1543 01:32:35,120 --> 01:32:39,479 Speaker 1: what we wanted to do, conquer from the margins. That's dude, 1544 01:32:39,520 --> 01:32:44,960 Speaker 1: Steely Dan lyric find our place in the middle based 1545 01:32:44,960 --> 01:32:47,400 Speaker 1: on the fact that we were creatures of the Margin 1546 01:32:47,600 --> 01:32:50,720 Speaker 1: and Alien Nation, and I think that's why I love 1547 01:32:50,760 --> 01:32:55,040 Speaker 1: this band and this record so so much. Um there's 1548 01:32:55,080 --> 01:32:58,559 Speaker 1: such a perversity to these two weirdos who were They 1549 01:32:58,560 --> 01:33:01,320 Speaker 1: were so close enough that they seemingly shared a brain, 1550 01:33:02,160 --> 01:33:05,160 Speaker 1: and they crafted all of these airtight songs with a 1551 01:33:05,360 --> 01:33:08,280 Speaker 1: rotating cast of some of the best musicians in the world, 1552 01:33:08,720 --> 01:33:13,519 Speaker 1: all grounded within their little neurotic world of jazz and sex, 1553 01:33:13,680 --> 01:33:18,760 Speaker 1: creeps and higher education literature. And that might have been 1554 01:33:18,840 --> 01:33:21,599 Speaker 1: weird cranks who I wouldn't have wanted to spend a 1555 01:33:21,640 --> 01:33:26,080 Speaker 1: second with, but they were consummate artists, and I am 1556 01:33:26,160 --> 01:33:27,920 Speaker 1: so happy that the world has caught up to that 1557 01:33:28,000 --> 01:33:31,000 Speaker 1: view of them. As they sang in Reeling in the years, 1558 01:33:31,320 --> 01:33:33,240 Speaker 1: you wouldn't even know a diamond if you held it 1559 01:33:33,240 --> 01:33:36,800 Speaker 1: in your hand. The things you think are precious, I 1560 01:33:36,840 --> 01:33:40,599 Speaker 1: can't understand. Thank you for listening, folks. This has been 1561 01:33:40,600 --> 01:33:44,320 Speaker 1: too much information. I'm Alex Hegel and I'm Jordan run Talk. 1562 01:33:44,560 --> 01:33:51,960 Speaker 1: We'll catch you next time. Too Much Information was a 1563 01:33:52,000 --> 01:33:55,160 Speaker 1: production of I Heart Radio. The show's executive producers are 1564 01:33:55,200 --> 01:33:58,240 Speaker 1: Noel Brown and Jordan run Talk. The supervising producer is 1565 01:33:58,280 --> 01:34:01,320 Speaker 1: Mike John's. The show was research, Written and hosted by 1566 01:34:01,400 --> 01:34:04,400 Speaker 1: Jordan run Talk and Alex Hegel, with original music by 1567 01:34:04,400 --> 01:34:07,320 Speaker 1: Seth Applebaum and the Ghost Funk Orchestra. If you like 1568 01:34:07,400 --> 01:34:09,519 Speaker 1: what you heard, please subscribe and leave us a review. 1569 01:34:09,760 --> 01:34:12,080 Speaker 1: For more podcasts and I heart Radio, visit the I 1570 01:34:12,200 --> 01:34:15,160 Speaker 1: heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to 1571 01:34:15,160 --> 01:34:16,040 Speaker 1: your favorite shows,