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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg Markets Podcast. I'm Paul Sweeney, alongside

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Speaker 1: my co host Matt Miller. Every business day, we bring

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Speaker 1: you interviews from CEOs, market pros, and Bloomberg experts, along

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Speaker 1: with essential market moving news. Find the Bloomberg Markets Podcast

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Speaker 1: on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts, and

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Speaker 1: at Bloomberg dot com slash podcast. Vince Signarella he's coming back,

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Speaker 1: Global macro strategist for Bloomberg News. Literally the king of

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Speaker 1: work from home. Vince. He's still bullish here. Yeah, I'm

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Speaker 1: actually listening, you know, listen that when I see two

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Speaker 1: year years about one year yels back to me and

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Speaker 1: and the rest of the curve something similar. That's the

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Speaker 1: fixed income market pushing back against these multiple aggressive FED

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Speaker 1: rate heights. I understand the argument, and the argument is

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Speaker 1: we go from eight percent to six percent, but how

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Speaker 1: do we get from six percent to two percent in

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Speaker 1: in a in a short time? My argument against that

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Speaker 1: is number one, why does it have to be a

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Speaker 1: short time and why does it have to be two percent?

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Speaker 1: The two percent level was something green Span just pulled

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Speaker 1: out of the air. If we get to three or

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Speaker 1: three and a half percent, that's where they said, guesses

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Speaker 1: the neutral rate is so there's no reason that's not

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Speaker 1: a good place to be. And if I think zero

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Speaker 1: percent is a good level of inflation, that's just highway robbery. Dude.

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Speaker 1: I don't like it. You know, it's not a good thing,

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Speaker 1: you know. So I do good grocery shopping usually, and

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Speaker 1: my wife went last week and it came back with

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Speaker 1: the sheer look of Carol and everything. I've been in

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Speaker 1: there in a while, and you know, looking at the

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Speaker 1: prices of a lot of things that doubled essentially. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'd like them to get inflation down as quickly as possible.

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Speaker 1: But I guess you're what you're saying is, um, if

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Speaker 1: they try and do that, they're going to cause so

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Speaker 1: much pain that what there will be a backlash and

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Speaker 1: riots in the streets, bricks through windows, and they'll have

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Speaker 1: to turn around and and cut Yeah. Well, I mean

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Speaker 1: think about it. You know, they're they're making statements, all

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Speaker 1: of them basically saying we don't care. We're gonna put

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Speaker 1: rates up and we're going to keep them there higher

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Speaker 1: for longer, and we don't care how that affects economy. Well,

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Speaker 1: if you're in the one pent uh income level, believe

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Speaker 1: for you, but for the rest of the breast of

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Speaker 1: the world, that's gonna be very difficult times. If if

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Speaker 1: the economy rolls over and goes into a recession, you're

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Speaker 1: going to have people losing their jobs at the same

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Speaker 1: time where prices are elevated. I'm not suggesting we're gonna

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Speaker 1: have statifylation type of scenario for a very long time,

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Speaker 1: But how do they keep pushing aways higher? If we

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Speaker 1: have negative growth and we've had two quarters of negative

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Speaker 1: growth so far, we don't know what the third quarter

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Speaker 1: is going to bring yet. They don't know what the

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Speaker 1: third and fourth quarter is going to bring yet. So

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Speaker 1: if we even have a slight positive growth in the

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Speaker 1: third quarter and then negative growth again in the fourth quarter,

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Speaker 1: what are they trying to accomplish. They're trying to beat

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Speaker 1: They're beating back on price increases that, let me use

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Speaker 1: the word transitory. These energy increases are not going to

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Speaker 1: be here to stay. I had a similar conversation last

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Speaker 1: week with Larry Summers, and he was saying, you know,

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Speaker 1: we're going to keep at these unemploy event levels seeing

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Speaker 1: inflation until we're at five five and a half percent

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Speaker 1: of unemployment basically saying that he's he thinks that to

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Speaker 1: our nehru is um, and getting there is going to

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Speaker 1: be extremely painful. Uh. For for the U S economy,

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Speaker 1: for US workers nonetheless, UM, it's tough to be short

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Speaker 1: to be long these markets as they continue to fall, right,

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Speaker 1: I mean, yes, we've turned around a little bit today,

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Speaker 1: but we're at thirty nine on the S and P

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Speaker 1: five hundred. Um. Where do you see it going in

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Speaker 1: the short to medium term? Uh? Well, I got a

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Speaker 1: dinner bet with a trader over by the end of

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Speaker 1: the year, so hopefully that's where it will be. Um.

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Speaker 1: I don't mind buying dinner. I like them. UM. But

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Speaker 1: I think for the markets in general, I think we

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Speaker 1: see it harder because I'm just not convinced. And that's

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Speaker 1: under consensus. By the way, that's consensus. We were checking

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Speaker 1: yesterday's I think forty three seventy five right now. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so against the consensus, So I guess not this time.

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Speaker 1: It just doesn't look good right now, especially after the

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Speaker 1: last few weeks. Drops out of the last seven sessions

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Speaker 1: were down six of those. Uh. And a lot of

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Speaker 1: times you'll get some turnarounds during the day, but we

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Speaker 1: end up in the red by the time the closing

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Speaker 1: bell rings. Yeah. I mean, look, I can tell you,

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Speaker 1: in all my years of trading, I never made money

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Speaker 1: on a real money on a trade. If I bought

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Speaker 1: and it went up the same day. I was always

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Speaker 1: layering into trades and it was always moving against me

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Speaker 1: because I always thought it's better to be first than

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Speaker 1: last um And I think that's going to be a

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Speaker 1: similar situation to this. I think once we get through

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Speaker 1: September and we get into October and we see inflation

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Speaker 1: numbers rolling over. We saw the I S M services

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Speaker 1: prices paid dropping yet again this week. We at cp

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Speaker 1: I next week. That's going to be a really interesting

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Speaker 1: number ahead of the ahead of the FED meeting, And

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Speaker 1: I think just going forward, we're going to see inflation

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Speaker 1: beginning to moderate, and that's going to give the Fed

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Speaker 1: an opportunity to pause, and you know, if they don't,

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Speaker 1: it's going to be what Larry Summer said, They're going

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Speaker 1: to drive us into a recession and it's going to

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Speaker 1: be very painful for everyone. And then I'd like to

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Speaker 1: see them stay there at high rates, Like what's going

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Speaker 1: to be there argument to say we need to keep

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Speaker 1: rates at three to four percent with negative growth in

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Speaker 1: the US of company makes absolutely no sense. Vince, do

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Speaker 1: you think we're going to get a rate hike in September?

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Speaker 1: Then kind of the wait and see. I e. It

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Speaker 1: takes a while for rate hikes to really impact econmy

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Speaker 1: and I think that's really what they should be doing.

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Speaker 1: And they're going against They're going against seven or five points, right,

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Speaker 1: I mean they're doing seven. Yeah, I think I think

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Speaker 1: they're gonna go seventy five basis points. Um. Powell was

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Speaker 1: very very hawkous the last time around. I don't think

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Speaker 1: I don't think he wants to sacrifice credibility by by

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Speaker 1: suggesting in any conversations coming up. I think he speaks tomorrow. Um,

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Speaker 1: that's seventy five is not in the cards. I think

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Speaker 1: that's a given. If they go less than seventy five,

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Speaker 1: the market's going to rally lot crazy. But I think

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Speaker 1: you're just a pencil wins. Seventy five it's there. The

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Speaker 1: question is what comes in October and November. And I'm

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Speaker 1: going to stay on the argument that they do nothing

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Speaker 1: after September because I think that the data just will

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Speaker 1: not support Yeah. And the Journal already had a story

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Speaker 1: this morning that they're gonna go set me five and

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Speaker 1: you know the journals where they leaked to that's right. Well,

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Speaker 1: you know I'm gonna push back on that one because

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Speaker 1: I worked at the journal the columns before coming to Bloomberg,

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Speaker 1: and the hit and miss ratio for those guys who

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Speaker 1: covered the FED was bel So we're getting leaked, all right, Vince,

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Speaker 1: good stuff as always from the home office. Vince Signarella,

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Speaker 1: Global macro strategists for Bloomberg News, former currency strategy It's

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Speaker 1: just not happening. Someday we're gonna get him in here,

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Speaker 1: I don't think so. He looks perfectly comfortable, comfortable at

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Speaker 1: his work from home office. He has completely made the

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Speaker 1: evolution to work from home. Let's bring on our next guest,

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Speaker 1: Mark Smith, Senior VP for Investments at Wells Fargo Advisors. Mark,

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Speaker 1: thanks so much for joining us here. I'm sure your

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Speaker 1: phone's ringing off the hook in this year two saying

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Speaker 1: my stocks they're not working, my bonds they're not working.

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Speaker 1: You know, maybe I on the dollar, I'm I'm feeling okay,

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Speaker 1: But what do you have? What what what the conversations like

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Speaker 1: with your clients these days? Well, thanks for having me

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Speaker 1: on it's always pleasure to be on Bloomberg. Uh, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you're absolutely right. Clients are calling, um, but they are

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Speaker 1: prepared for this. I mean that the FED has spoken

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Speaker 1: pretty clearly about what they're intending to do, and uh,

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Speaker 1: they carry a pretty large mic. Everyone's listening. They've heard

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Speaker 1: that the rates are going up. And so folks are

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Speaker 1: my clients specifically, are expecting volatility because when you're having

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Speaker 1: a FED that's tightening, quantitative easing is not gonna be

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Speaker 1: there anymore. Everyone's expecting for there to be a little

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Speaker 1: bit of pain while this happens. And so the long

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Speaker 1: term investor is the one that's still in this. And

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Speaker 1: I gotta tell you there's a lot of folks out

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Speaker 1: there there in this for the long term. They've been

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Speaker 1: trained I think for the since two thousand and eight,

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Speaker 1: two thousand nine, UM, going into the pandemic that if

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Speaker 1: you kind of you know, buy and hold, good things happen.

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Speaker 1: And so, um, that's what I'm hearing. A lot of

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Speaker 1: folks looking for opportunities in this environment. You look at

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Speaker 1: the tech sector, there are a ton of them. Um.

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Speaker 1: There are companies that we all know and love that

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Speaker 1: are down. Um, So folks are nibbling. All right, there's

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Speaker 1: dollar cost averaging. I think what's one term that investors

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Speaker 1: need to write down put on their fridge dollar cost averages.

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Speaker 1: If you see a bad day in the market by

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Speaker 1: a little bit of some of those names that you've

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Speaker 1: been hoping and praying that we would go down this much.

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Speaker 1: Don't get nervous when fearful. When people are fearful, be greedy.

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Speaker 1: I hear you, Um, you know that's uh solid investment

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Speaker 1: theory and put to practice. I mean, if you step

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Speaker 1: back and look at the charts over a longer term,

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Speaker 1: you have to admit that it always proves correct. What

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Speaker 1: do you like right now? Mark? Where where are you

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Speaker 1: seeing the best opportunities in this environment? I think the

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Speaker 1: best opportunity is in the financials. And here's why since

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Speaker 1: oh eight oh nine, they're really one of the sectors

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Speaker 1: that haven't rebounded as much as everyone else. Number two.

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Speaker 1: In a rising rate environment, historically financials outperform. You look

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Speaker 1: at the data. The financial sector is poised because of

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Speaker 1: um that interest margin and because of dot frank what

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Speaker 1: what the bank are forced to do into O A

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Speaker 1: go nine to shore up their balance sheet to make

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Speaker 1: sure we never see another great recession again and having

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Speaker 1: a bank run. These banks, I think are primed for

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Speaker 1: this environment. They are lean and mean, they've been doing

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Speaker 1: the right things because the FED made them do the

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Speaker 1: right things in O nine And they're already undervalued as

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Speaker 1: a sector compared to every other sector in this and

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Speaker 1: five harnts you're coming out of eight O nine if

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Speaker 1: you look at the charts. So I like the financials,

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Speaker 1: the regionals specifically. I think they're gonna do really well

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Speaker 1: in this environment. Um, But um, any of the large

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Speaker 1: banks as well. I mean, you're going in there, who's

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Speaker 1: keeping their money in bitcoin? Right now? That that that

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Speaker 1: story is over, people are keeping keeping their money in banks. Um,

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Speaker 1: it's the safest place to be. And um, I think

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Speaker 1: you're gonna see them do well over the next couple

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Speaker 1: of years. Mark Energies, you know had you know, it's

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Speaker 1: it's day in the sun, a rare day in the sun.

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Speaker 1: Over the last couple of years, I'm starting to see

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Speaker 1: a little bit of a pullback in in oil. Here.

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Speaker 1: Do you guys have an energy call there? Should I

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Speaker 1: take my money and say all right, I've done okay?

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Speaker 1: Where do I stick around? Look? Listen, I think if

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Speaker 1: you look at where we are, because when you think

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Speaker 1: about energy, you guys think about it globally, right, you

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Speaker 1: can't just think about it here in the US. So

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Speaker 1: if you look at what's going on, we still got

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Speaker 1: lockdowns and the one of the largest economies in the

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Speaker 1: world in China. Once they fully get back on, I

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Speaker 1: think energy is gonna take off. You've got a huge

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Speaker 1: issue with Putin and Europe UM and going into the winter.

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Speaker 1: These are all I think you a little brisks that

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Speaker 1: are out there that I will could and could make

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Speaker 1: energy go up. And I think until all this is realized,

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Speaker 1: I think you've got to have a position and energy. Um,

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Speaker 1: given what you're seeing globally going on from Europe and

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Speaker 1: Putin to UM to China and having them still being

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Speaker 1: locked down when all these things kind of swash out,

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Speaker 1: I think you can still see some upside there all right,

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Speaker 1: Supreme Fish Delight. Where was that restaurant that was in Harlem?

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Speaker 1: And thanks for bringing that up, although I like closed

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Speaker 1: it down a few years ago. Um, that was the

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Speaker 1: restaurant that I ran in Harlem for a couple of years.

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Speaker 1: I was a restaurant our owner operator and it was

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Speaker 1: one of the hardest things I've ever done in my life.

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Speaker 1: I give my I sit my hat to all the

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Speaker 1: restaurant owner is around the country for the work they've

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Speaker 1: done over the last couple of years, because it has

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Speaker 1: not been easy. It's hard to find good workers. Um.

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Speaker 1: I don't know what these folks are doing nowadays, but

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Speaker 1: they're not coming back to restaurants. Yeah, interesting stuff, you know.

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Speaker 1: It's just you know that you think about the restaurant business,

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Speaker 1: You've got inflation on your cost. Yes, obviously the restaurant

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Speaker 1: very difficult. But you know what, I imagine being senior

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Speaker 1: VP for Investments at Wells Fargo Fargo Advisors in this

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Speaker 1: climate is also fairly tough because Mark, you've got to

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Speaker 1: be fielding a ton of calls from people who are

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Speaker 1: freaking out, especially you know, investors who are close to retirement.

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Speaker 1: Right here, Um, we have seen in the last nine days,

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Speaker 1: we've seen uh nine consecutive drops in global stocks and

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Speaker 1: that's the worst run we've seen in eleven years. Stuff

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Speaker 1: all right, Mark, thanks so much for joining us here.

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Speaker 1: Mark Smith's senior VP Investments for Wells Fargo Advisor's former

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Speaker 1: restaurant owner Supreme Fish Delight in Harlem, formerly up there,

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Speaker 1: so very interesting background. I'm looking at my phone, I

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Speaker 1: phone model iPhone eleven. Dude, you really need an upgrade,

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Speaker 1: do I? What do you got? I have the thirteen. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it doesn't look any different, a better, it's no, but

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Speaker 1: it's not the way it looks. I think, um, five

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Speaker 1: G started with the twelve. There's a couple of things.

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Speaker 1: Five G started with the twelve. The other thing is

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Speaker 1: the mag safe thing started with the twelve. So I

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Speaker 1: can just like my charge at home. I just stick

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Speaker 1: my phone to it. I don't plug it in, I

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Speaker 1: just slap it on there. And uh yeah, alright, this

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Speaker 1: year's a good year. All right, we'll see what we'll see.

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Speaker 1: I don't need an upgrade, it's probably the thing, but

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Speaker 1: I do think you tell me a right Ed loud

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Speaker 1: Low West Coast, corresponding from Bloomberg News. He's all over

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Speaker 1: this Apple event today taking place in Cupertino, where they're

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Speaker 1: going to launch some of their new products, including the

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Speaker 1: iPhone fourteen. Ed, what's the buzz in the valley about

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Speaker 1: our friends and Cuppertino. There's this fantastic meme that someone

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Speaker 1: tweeted this morning of Christmas Day, and this man wearing

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Speaker 1: a red plaid shut opening a box and pulling out

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Speaker 1: the exact saying red plaid shirt that he's wearing. And

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Speaker 1: I think that that's what you guys are kind of

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Speaker 1: getting at, right, that these are incremental updates. But you

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Speaker 1: know that that we get a new iPhone every year

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Speaker 1: almost right, and between iPhone twelve to iPhone thirteen, which

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Speaker 1: I also have, you know, the distinction in this day

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Speaker 1: and age has been whether you get the sort of

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Speaker 1: bog standard consumer model or the Pro model, which has

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Speaker 1: higher spec camera and processing capabilities and is kind of

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Speaker 1: aimed at creative professionals. And it's much the same with

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Speaker 1: the iPhone four team. We expect same as people who

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Speaker 1: like to think of themselves as creative well yes, yes

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Speaker 1: quite or who I guess work in the creative industries.

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Speaker 1: But you know, that's what we expect this time. Four

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Speaker 1: versions of the iPhone fourteen two Pro two Standard, no

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Speaker 1: mini version. You remember. I know for some people that

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Speaker 1: is a bummer, but Apple is kind of going in

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Speaker 1: the direction the rest of the smartphone industry, including Samsung

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Speaker 1: is which is bigger, screens are better. Um. The key

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Speaker 1: is in the hint of the poster for the event,

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Speaker 1: which is called far Out. Have you guys seen it?

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Speaker 1: So it is the Apple logo illuminated in the night

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Speaker 1: sky as a star constellation. And Mark German, our Apple reporter,

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Speaker 1: has this brilliant column and his newsletter talking about kind

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Speaker 1: of what that could mean. It could be as simple

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Speaker 1: as a wallpaper, right, and I know that sounds dumb.

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Speaker 1: Or it could mean a tease to satellite capabilities. And

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Speaker 1: I think that's the next technology area that the analysts

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Speaker 1: are looking to. I dig that just googled. I just

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Speaker 1: googled the far out Apple and then you can see

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Speaker 1: the um the sort of universe picture that Ed is

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Speaker 1: talking about, very very cool um. And now I'm even

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Speaker 1: more excited than I was before. What time five o'clock? Right?

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Speaker 1: Is it five o'clock Eastern time? So two o'clock your time? Ed?

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Speaker 1: What time do we start to hear these details? Isn't

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Speaker 1: it one o'clock eastern time? Hold on, let me look

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Speaker 1: it up. Give me a second. You guys talk amongst okay,

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Speaker 1: So I'll tell you while you look this up, I'll

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Speaker 1: tell you. Do I get subsidized again? If I got

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Speaker 1: buy a phone and my shell now a thousand dollars

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Speaker 1: I think now on, you're just from now on your

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Speaker 1: shelling out of that. Let's maybe you switch over from

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Speaker 1: contract to contract everything about that. But what I'm most

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Speaker 1: excited about myself is a new Apple watch because as

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Speaker 1: I get more um interested in the data. Are you

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Speaker 1: talking to your watch? No? I don't talk to it,

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Speaker 1: but it measures my heart rate and heart rate variability,

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Speaker 1: and it tells me how well I sleep, or at

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Speaker 1: least it tries to do that. It's not working quite

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Speaker 1: as well, I think as some of its competitors, um

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Speaker 1: Polar has a much better heart rate monitor whoop maybe

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Speaker 1: is better at telling me how I sleep and my

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Speaker 1: recovery time. And I think Apple could really up its

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Speaker 1: game um in terms of the health functions on the watch.

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Speaker 1: ED what are you hearing about that? Well, good news.

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Speaker 1: I mean we're expecting a new generation of Apple watches

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Speaker 1: as well. It's interesting. I don't want to go in

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Speaker 1: too much of a tangent, but there's been a lot

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Speaker 1: of debate about whether Apple needs to buy Peloton. For example.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's reports out there that Peloton is kind

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Speaker 1: of shopping itself amongst its current difficulties, and a lot

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Speaker 1: of the response from the Street. It doesn't need to.

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Speaker 1: You know, it has hardware in the watch, it has

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Speaker 1: the content already, why would it buy Peloton? So we

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Speaker 1: do expect a new generation of Apple Watch, and you know,

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Speaker 1: much with the phone, the question is whether you go

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Speaker 1: for the higher spec version of it with the larger screen,

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Speaker 1: or you go for the cheaper model. I think that

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Speaker 1: the other big theme conscious of time is that you know,

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Speaker 1: from an analyst and investor's perspective, you want to see

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Speaker 1: how Apple prices all this stuff, right, because sales volumes

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Speaker 1: could drop going into the end of this year the

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Speaker 1: economy such as it is globally, so higher prices can

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Speaker 1: maintain the bottom line. How about for some emerging markets

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Speaker 1: where a lower price phone would do better? And I

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Speaker 1: know they had a model a couple of cycles ago

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Speaker 1: that we're kind of targeting that, you know, whether it's

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Speaker 1: India other merger markets. Where are we with it? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: I think, well, I go back to the mini, right

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Speaker 1: that that the mini and the non pro versions of

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Speaker 1: the phone are aimed at. That that you look at

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Speaker 1: a chart of ASPS average selling prices and they've gone

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Speaker 1: through the roof towards dollars of these handsets, right, I

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Speaker 1: remember why. I don't remember. I'm not that old, but

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Speaker 1: you know, when I was a kid, you could just

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Speaker 1: about afford the basic iPhone. It was much smaller, lower

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Speaker 1: spec It's the size and the capabilities that driven the

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Speaker 1: prices higher in markets like India, fascinating market. You know

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Speaker 1: Samsung does well, but you have to remember there's many

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Speaker 1: other players in that market. Local players are the Asian

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Speaker 1: players who are much more focused at the lower end. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it'll be interesting to see what kind of a ray

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Speaker 1: because at some points, at certain generations they do come

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Speaker 1: out with like an R model or something which is

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Speaker 1: I guess just as fast but doesn't have all the

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Speaker 1: bells and we see, yeah, exactly. So hey, and where's

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Speaker 1: Apple in terms of the whole supply chain discussion? Ease

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Speaker 1: kind of the poster child. What do they say these things?

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Speaker 1: You know, Apple is the great bluffer, right, that's probably

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Speaker 1: being a bit too stronger unkind, but often guides conservatively.

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Speaker 1: I think back to fiscal second unders and over deliver. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they have said for a decade they said that supply

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Speaker 1: chain issues. At that time, we were kind of in

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Speaker 1: the depths of the Ukraine crisis, China zero COVID policy

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Speaker 1: would cost them, or they'd leave between four and eight

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Speaker 1: billion dollars of sales on the table. What materialized in

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Speaker 1: the fiscal third quarter was a number significantly less than

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Speaker 1: four billion dollars, and they guided to the fiscal fourth

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Speaker 1: courter the period where in now that it would continue

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Speaker 1: to be less than four billion dollars with an improving

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Speaker 1: supply chain, even with a worsening global economy. So I

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Speaker 1: think that that's well known. I mean, you guys know

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Speaker 1: much better than I. They've done it a long time,

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Speaker 1: guided conservatively, and you know, I'll leave the person un

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Speaker 1: named but telling us that we're so old. Yes, no, no,

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Speaker 1: I'm just saying Apple Apple, As someone who I respect

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Speaker 1: and newsroom said, you know, Apple may go as far

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Speaker 1: as to be sandbagging the cell siders, which I think

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Speaker 1: is an interesting idea. And you're flying out here, yes

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Speaker 1: you are you a United? Are you flying with United?

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Speaker 1: Because then it's kind of iffy if you're flying in

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Speaker 1: a GfK with United area. Well, other airlines are available,

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Speaker 1: but as people know, SFO as a United hub, and

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Speaker 1: I have been known to fly United. So what are

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Speaker 1: you coming here? Are you testing out some brand new

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Speaker 1: ev Well, are you looking at a new rocket, I

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Speaker 1: mean New York City? What do you do here? Well?

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Speaker 1: Do you guys remember a company called Nikola that has

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Speaker 1: Yes Trevor on trial in the Southern District of New

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Speaker 1: York three counts of securities fraud, one count of wire fraud.

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Speaker 1: And I'd like to come to town to cover the trial. Wow. Well,

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Speaker 1: I hope we can test drive some cars together. You

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Speaker 1: know I got my truck right, yes, yes, and you

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Speaker 1: if you have me on the show, I'll come sit

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Speaker 1: next to you in person. Coming to the East Coast.

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Speaker 1: Famous see your producer back in the day, he was

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Speaker 1: how bad? I have really fond memories of Matt and

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Speaker 1: I cutting it very close to get to camera in

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Speaker 1: Brussels because we were getting waffles. That is a true

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Speaker 1: true story from many years ago. Alright, Ed, good stuff.

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Speaker 1: As always, we look forward to see you here in

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Speaker 1: New York soon. Ed Lulow, West Coast corresponder for Bloomberg

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Speaker 1: News getting us the latest on Apple. They're having a

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Speaker 1: product unveiled today, I guess is what they call out

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Speaker 1: there and Cupertino always big news for the folks at App.

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Speaker 1: Right now is our weekly Crypto segment and to get started,

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Speaker 1: I always just type in c R y P go

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Speaker 1: our crypto currency monitor, seeing what's moving here. We got

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Speaker 1: some weakness in bitcoin and ethereum. Today, Jordy Visor joins us.

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Speaker 1: He's president and c i O of Wise Multi Strategy Advisors. Jordy,

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Speaker 1: you guys recently launched an n f E n f T.

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Speaker 1: Tell us about that, well, thanks thanks for having me on.

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Speaker 1: But in terms in terms of the n f T,

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Speaker 1: we've been focused on crypto and I think more specifically

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Speaker 1: on the blockchain and web three point oh and becoming

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Speaker 1: more and more in the belief that it's going to

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Speaker 1: have an impact on all of our lives. But in

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Speaker 1: particular since we're involved in the financial world towards the

427
00:20:55,200 --> 00:20:58,359
Speaker 1: investment side, uh and so because of that belief, we

428
00:20:58,440 --> 00:21:01,760
Speaker 1: wanted to make a move into it for the experiential side,

429
00:21:02,280 --> 00:21:05,159
Speaker 1: the adapter die side, meaning we really need to If

430
00:21:05,160 --> 00:21:07,480
Speaker 1: you're gonna believe in technology, you don't know what it's

431
00:21:07,480 --> 00:21:09,760
Speaker 1: how it's going to impact your business. So we did

432
00:21:09,800 --> 00:21:11,840
Speaker 1: this for a variety of reasons, but most of it

433
00:21:11,880 --> 00:21:13,399
Speaker 1: had to do with our belief in the future of

434
00:21:13,400 --> 00:21:18,080
Speaker 1: crypto and specifically the blockchain. It seems hard to maintain

435
00:21:18,160 --> 00:21:23,080
Speaker 1: that belief as we see um bitcoin stagnate at twenty

436
00:21:23,119 --> 00:21:26,880
Speaker 1: thousand or below. Having said that, when I first started

437
00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:30,760
Speaker 1: covering bitcoin, that was trading for one thousand or below.

438
00:21:30,880 --> 00:21:33,000
Speaker 1: So it's you know, obviously it's made a big move

439
00:21:33,040 --> 00:21:36,119
Speaker 1: in the last um ten years, but people seem to

440
00:21:36,640 --> 00:21:38,680
Speaker 1: be paying a lot more attention to the move from

441
00:21:38,680 --> 00:21:42,639
Speaker 1: sixty five to twenty than they are from you know, uh,

442
00:21:43,040 --> 00:21:49,359
Speaker 1: one thousand to twenty. Well, I'll just say I think

443
00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:52,800
Speaker 1: one of the problems when people think about crypto is

444
00:21:53,160 --> 00:21:56,600
Speaker 1: it just hasn't, in people's mind, become an asset that

445
00:21:56,640 --> 00:21:59,960
Speaker 1: they understand yet. And I think it transitioned into an

446
00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:03,920
Speaker 1: asset and had a major turning point in during during

447
00:22:03,960 --> 00:22:07,119
Speaker 1: COVID for a variety of reasons. But the way that

448
00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:10,520
Speaker 1: I think about it is just simply, there's about five

449
00:22:10,960 --> 00:22:13,879
Speaker 1: trillion dollars in fiat assets in the world. There's about

450
00:22:13,880 --> 00:22:17,959
Speaker 1: a trillion dollars now of market cap withinside the crypto world,

451
00:22:18,520 --> 00:22:21,840
Speaker 1: and the easiest way to think about when Bitcoin, ethereum

452
00:22:21,840 --> 00:22:24,119
Speaker 1: and the rest of of the tokens would have a

453
00:22:24,119 --> 00:22:26,800
Speaker 1: hard time, it would be number one. When the fiat

454
00:22:26,800 --> 00:22:29,320
Speaker 1: assets are going down. We've obviously seen one of the

455
00:22:29,320 --> 00:22:33,040
Speaker 1: worst years in both bonds and stocks and in quite

456
00:22:33,040 --> 00:22:36,960
Speaker 1: some time. But you've also had a situation where the

457
00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:42,000
Speaker 1: innovation names, particularly technology, had a really uh you know,

458
00:22:42,320 --> 00:22:45,520
Speaker 1: noteworthy fall this year. And I think if you were

459
00:22:45,520 --> 00:22:48,159
Speaker 1: going to guess where you'd have problems for bitcoin and

460
00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:51,840
Speaker 1: ethereum as an innovation side, it would be if all

461
00:22:51,920 --> 00:22:54,359
Speaker 1: FIAT assets fell and if innovation fell. So I'm not

462
00:22:54,359 --> 00:22:56,840
Speaker 1: surprised by the fall, uh, and I think people should

463
00:22:56,840 --> 00:22:58,639
Speaker 1: be taking it in the context of what's happened in

464
00:22:58,680 --> 00:23:00,720
Speaker 1: the rest of the assets. The other hand, I was

465
00:23:00,760 --> 00:23:03,320
Speaker 1: hoping we would see, you know, ten years ago, I thought, oh,

466
00:23:03,359 --> 00:23:06,000
Speaker 1: this is a really cool new currency and I'll be

467
00:23:06,040 --> 00:23:08,560
Speaker 1: able to buy and sell stuff. I actually lived on

468
00:23:08,960 --> 00:23:13,080
Speaker 1: bitcoin for a couple of weeks back in two thousand thirteen. UM.

469
00:23:13,119 --> 00:23:16,520
Speaker 1: But it hasn't evolved in that way. People aren't using

470
00:23:16,520 --> 00:23:20,600
Speaker 1: it for transaction transactional purposes. They're using it, I guess,

471
00:23:20,600 --> 00:23:23,960
Speaker 1: as a store of wealth, which is why the move

472
00:23:24,080 --> 00:23:29,359
Speaker 1: down is such a concern. Well, so again, I think

473
00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:34,120
Speaker 1: that my evolution in this space was, you know, really

474
00:23:34,160 --> 00:23:38,240
Speaker 1: transition from money to asset, like I said in UM,

475
00:23:38,280 --> 00:23:40,840
Speaker 1: and now I'm more focused on it from the innovation side.

476
00:23:41,040 --> 00:23:43,119
Speaker 1: I'm a macro person and I try to put everything

477
00:23:43,160 --> 00:23:46,840
Speaker 1: in the context of how the macro world will will look. Uh.

478
00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:50,159
Speaker 1: This at the end of the day is about less centralization,

479
00:23:50,160 --> 00:23:53,280
Speaker 1: and it's about the users and creators having more ownership.

480
00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:55,720
Speaker 1: And so when when we sit there and talk about

481
00:23:55,720 --> 00:23:57,480
Speaker 1: it as money, I don't think of it in that

482
00:23:57,520 --> 00:24:00,280
Speaker 1: way at all. I think of this has asset and

483
00:24:00,760 --> 00:24:05,640
Speaker 1: to a degree, every token outside of say ethereum and bitcoin,

484
00:24:05,720 --> 00:24:09,679
Speaker 1: to me is more like a company shares, uh. And

485
00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:11,960
Speaker 1: so I think it really depends on how you view

486
00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:14,840
Speaker 1: it into the listening audience. That's one of the big

487
00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:18,680
Speaker 1: messages from this year for me was spending time on

488
00:24:18,680 --> 00:24:21,280
Speaker 1: what n f t s. Last year, the whole explosion

489
00:24:21,359 --> 00:24:23,600
Speaker 1: we saw on n f t S, what that meant,

490
00:24:23,680 --> 00:24:26,639
Speaker 1: and for me, it transition for money, which is what

491
00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:29,680
Speaker 1: it was in two thousand fifteen sixteen, to asset, which

492
00:24:29,680 --> 00:24:32,560
Speaker 1: is what I think it was, and then in two

493
00:24:32,680 --> 00:24:36,080
Speaker 1: thousand twenty one, I think it transitioned to something more

494
00:24:36,119 --> 00:24:38,240
Speaker 1: like what the app store did the web two point oh.

495
00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:41,639
Speaker 1: So I've moved completely onto the innovation side, and I

496
00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:44,080
Speaker 1: think thinking about it as money, I agree with you.

497
00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:46,160
Speaker 1: We're going to have so many different ways of this

498
00:24:46,240 --> 00:24:49,879
Speaker 1: being money, whether it's CBD, c S. I'm just viewing

499
00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:51,720
Speaker 1: this more on the asset side and kind of a

500
00:24:51,760 --> 00:24:55,879
Speaker 1: disruption to capitalism Johnny, real quick and as maybe unfair

501
00:24:55,920 --> 00:25:00,320
Speaker 1: given a time constraint. How do you define web three point? Oh? Well,

502
00:25:00,359 --> 00:25:02,760
Speaker 1: again for me to make it simple, because I think

503
00:25:02,800 --> 00:25:06,639
Speaker 1: it confuses people, I've called it the borderless Internet, which

504
00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:09,240
Speaker 1: basically means it opens it up to so many But

505
00:25:09,280 --> 00:25:12,199
Speaker 1: I really I think people should focus on this in

506
00:25:12,359 --> 00:25:15,720
Speaker 1: less centralization, which I think is a dominant theme, you know,

507
00:25:16,240 --> 00:25:19,280
Speaker 1: across the populist movement. I think it's a dominant theme

508
00:25:19,359 --> 00:25:20,800
Speaker 1: right now in terms of trying to get people to

509
00:25:20,840 --> 00:25:24,560
Speaker 1: get back to work. So for corporates, obviously for banks, uh,

510
00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:28,200
Speaker 1: the centralization really took an impact down two thousand and eight.

511
00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:30,280
Speaker 1: But then you have the other side, which is wealth.

512
00:25:30,359 --> 00:25:32,520
Speaker 1: And if there's one message to leave with everyone on

513
00:25:32,680 --> 00:25:35,400
Speaker 1: kind of where this gets more interesting, It gets back

514
00:25:35,400 --> 00:25:38,200
Speaker 1: to that point that there's five trillion dollars globally of

515
00:25:38,280 --> 00:25:42,400
Speaker 1: FIAT assets, and so if you're gonna have less centralization

516
00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:44,560
Speaker 1: and the users and the creators are going to have

517
00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:47,600
Speaker 1: more ownership well, right now, the top twelve percent of

518
00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:52,159
Speaker 1: of people, uh or twelve percent of people of that

519
00:25:52,240 --> 00:25:55,760
Speaker 1: five trillion dollars. And so we're talking about spreading the

520
00:25:55,800 --> 00:25:57,480
Speaker 1: wealth more and more. And that's why I think, whether

521
00:25:57,520 --> 00:26:01,000
Speaker 1: it's talent going to cryptou and three point oh, you're

522
00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:03,560
Speaker 1: gonna see more and more people focused on web three

523
00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:07,400
Speaker 1: point oh as a less centralized world, which disrupts Web

524
00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:10,240
Speaker 1: two point out, which is platforms, got good stuff, and Jordan,

525
00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:12,520
Speaker 1: we're gonna get your back going. Do actually make this

526
00:26:12,560 --> 00:26:16,719
Speaker 1: stuff somewhat understandable for us? Luddite Story Visitor, President CEO

527
00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:22,000
Speaker 1: of WIE Multi Strategy Advisers, talking all things crypto, including

528
00:26:22,040 --> 00:26:28,760
Speaker 1: the evolution to web three point oh, you're talking prices,

529
00:26:28,880 --> 00:26:31,600
Speaker 1: Madi's you've gotta have a demand call, you gotta have

530
00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:34,000
Speaker 1: a supply call. It just feels to me that oil

531
00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:37,280
Speaker 1: kind of the demand equations kind of pushing things around here.

532
00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:38,920
Speaker 1: But let's bring in somebody who does this stuff for living.

533
00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:43,080
Speaker 1: Julia fanzeris oil futures reporter for Bloomberg News. She joins

534
00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:45,919
Speaker 1: us live on our Bloomberg Interactive Brokers studio. None of

535
00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:48,360
Speaker 1: this phoning and in stuff and quite I think You're

536
00:26:48,359 --> 00:26:51,440
Speaker 1: gonna have more of these Bloomberg folks in studio going forward.

537
00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:54,680
Speaker 1: I know that you've been pushing for it. I have been,

538
00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:59,320
Speaker 1: and I mean, look, I think, um, well, Mike build

539
00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:02,840
Speaker 1: multi we had great experience. It's great office in our

540
00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:05,080
Speaker 1: offices around the world are incredible, and I think the

541
00:27:05,080 --> 00:27:07,760
Speaker 1: collaboration side of it is key. But more and more,

542
00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:09,520
Speaker 1: I think a lot of people are doing it online

543
00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:14,000
Speaker 1: in the what do you call that the metaverse? Metaverse?

544
00:27:14,359 --> 00:27:16,480
Speaker 1: I feel like the metaverse is here, I think so.

545
00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:19,520
Speaker 1: I don't know, but Julia is is live with us

546
00:27:19,560 --> 00:27:21,640
Speaker 1: in the Interactive Broker studio on a day when Brent

547
00:27:21,720 --> 00:27:25,359
Speaker 1: crude um is below ninety dollars, nime x w t

548
00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:29,919
Speaker 1: I is off more than four percent right now. This

549
00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:32,320
Speaker 1: is interesting, Julia, because we just had at the beginning

550
00:27:32,320 --> 00:27:36,240
Speaker 1: of the week an OPEC plus UH production cut. I

551
00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:38,359
Speaker 1: know it wasn't huge cut, but it was still going

552
00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:42,640
Speaker 1: in that direction, and um another going the other way,

553
00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:45,560
Speaker 1: another lockdown in China. So is this really a demand

554
00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:48,080
Speaker 1: issue rather than a supply It really does seem to

555
00:27:48,119 --> 00:27:51,560
Speaker 1: be the case, especially this morning, because the demand coming

556
00:27:51,560 --> 00:27:54,679
Speaker 1: out of China is obviously much lower with these new lockdowns.

557
00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:56,720
Speaker 1: And also let's look at the fact that right now

558
00:27:56,760 --> 00:28:00,560
Speaker 1: everything looks very bearish for oil. Sure, the bull factors

559
00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:04,040
Speaker 1: of supply cuts and the possibility of the fact that

560
00:28:04,119 --> 00:28:07,119
Speaker 1: the EU is also going to not allow Russian oil

561
00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:10,080
Speaker 1: into the market. Sure, but that's further into the future.

562
00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:12,600
Speaker 1: Right now, it's not looking good for markets, and the

563
00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:14,960
Speaker 1: liquidity is very low. We had the U S holiday

564
00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:18,040
Speaker 1: earlier on Monday when the OPEC meeting happens, so that

565
00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:20,280
Speaker 1: kind of got priced in that day, but then it

566
00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:22,600
Speaker 1: really phased out and now we are at six month

567
00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:26,520
Speaker 1: loads again. Basically, traders they're saying that there is no

568
00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:29,879
Speaker 1: real reward for taking huge risks in the market right now.

569
00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:32,440
Speaker 1: They just want to pull out. And w h I

570
00:28:32,520 --> 00:28:37,400
Speaker 1: just formed its death cross, which means that that means

571
00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:40,280
Speaker 1: that the fifty day moving average fell below the two

572
00:28:40,600 --> 00:28:42,880
Speaker 1: day moving average for the first time since twenty and

573
00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:45,760
Speaker 1: so that's a barrish technical signal. There is no reason

574
00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:47,800
Speaker 1: for traders right now from what they see and from

575
00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:50,280
Speaker 1: what they're telling me, to buy in right now. And

576
00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:53,440
Speaker 1: as we all know, Chinese demand is a huge factor

577
00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:55,560
Speaker 1: for the crude markets because they are such a large

578
00:28:55,560 --> 00:28:58,440
Speaker 1: importer of crude with this COVID zero policy, it's really

579
00:28:58,480 --> 00:29:00,680
Speaker 1: not looking great for the markets. Don't know how we

580
00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:03,640
Speaker 1: get out of this China situation in terms of the

581
00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:05,680
Speaker 1: COVID zero policy. It just seems like they're gonna have

582
00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:09,600
Speaker 1: fits and starts for the foreseeable future. And I guess

583
00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:11,240
Speaker 1: you're just if I'm going to be an oil trade

584
00:29:11,280 --> 00:29:13,760
Speaker 1: I just can't take on that much of a position

585
00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:16,320
Speaker 1: assuming demand is going to come up from China, because

586
00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:18,360
Speaker 1: you can't, I don't think exactly. And it's been so

587
00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:20,960
Speaker 1: tricky obviously in these last couple of months with the

588
00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:23,640
Speaker 1: Russia's invasion of the Ukraine. But oil has really given

589
00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:25,680
Speaker 1: up all of those games, and so right now it's

590
00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:27,840
Speaker 1: a tricky place for people to be trading. And we

591
00:29:27,880 --> 00:29:29,800
Speaker 1: see that people have really backed out. Liquidity is still

592
00:29:29,800 --> 00:29:33,120
Speaker 1: at six year low, so people are not really pouring

593
00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:35,920
Speaker 1: money into crude at the moment. I wonder what you

594
00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:38,920
Speaker 1: think about the spr draw down that that UM President

595
00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:43,560
Speaker 1: Biden administration authorized that really brought down gasoline prices, but

596
00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:46,840
Speaker 1: it leaves us kind of vulnerable if there's any big problem.

597
00:29:46,880 --> 00:29:51,800
Speaker 1: I mean, UM is OPEC trying to give us a

598
00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:54,760
Speaker 1: message with these hundred thousand dollars. How there a thousand

599
00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:56,640
Speaker 1: barrel production cuts or what was the point of that?

600
00:29:57,720 --> 00:30:00,160
Speaker 1: Was a message opaque earlier, and Saudi Arabia is the

601
00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:03,680
Speaker 1: first one to say, Look, OPEC might cut because there

602
00:30:03,760 --> 00:30:06,920
Speaker 1: is this disconnect from the crude markets and the actual

603
00:30:07,320 --> 00:30:08,840
Speaker 1: products that are on the market. As we know, we've

604
00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:11,320
Speaker 1: been talking about tight supplies. There is not enough actual

605
00:30:11,440 --> 00:30:13,640
Speaker 1: crude barrels on the market for the high demand in

606
00:30:13,680 --> 00:30:16,600
Speaker 1: the summer, and then the crude market because traders don't

607
00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:18,640
Speaker 1: want to be putting their money and kept tanking and

608
00:30:18,640 --> 00:30:22,520
Speaker 1: taking despite the fact that supplies were still tight. Fundamentally,

609
00:30:22,560 --> 00:30:24,600
Speaker 1: the market was still tight. So OPEC said for this

610
00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:27,480
Speaker 1: not to ocquirk because obviously they don't want prices to tank.

611
00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:30,160
Speaker 1: They said, we're going to cut supplies in hopes of

612
00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:35,080
Speaker 1: really helping the market meet the physical picture. How about

613
00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:38,080
Speaker 1: our good friends down in Texas and Oklahoma. They never

614
00:30:38,160 --> 00:30:41,479
Speaker 1: really ramped up their production, did they. I mean I

615
00:30:41,560 --> 00:30:44,440
Speaker 1: kept hearing they yeah, I kept hearing stories that they don't.

616
00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:47,000
Speaker 1: They really couldn't, and they didn't want to, you know,

617
00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:49,960
Speaker 1: upset their shareholders and bondholders. So they said, we're going

618
00:30:50,040 --> 00:30:52,000
Speaker 1: to keep our keep the cash fload going to you guys,

619
00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:54,280
Speaker 1: and as opposed to putting it in the ground. Where

620
00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:55,960
Speaker 1: are those guys? What's the question is it is it

621
00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:58,440
Speaker 1: too expensive for them to boose production or are they

622
00:30:58,880 --> 00:31:03,080
Speaker 1: hesitant because of the regulatory environment in Washington. I think both.

623
00:31:03,240 --> 00:31:04,880
Speaker 1: I think at this point the margins were much better

624
00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:06,680
Speaker 1: earlier in the summer, but as they had mentioned, it

625
00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:09,480
Speaker 1: takes time. So even though the margins were incredible for

626
00:31:09,520 --> 00:31:11,080
Speaker 1: the money that they were going to put in right,

627
00:31:11,240 --> 00:31:13,480
Speaker 1: absolutely in that moment it would have made sense, but

628
00:31:13,560 --> 00:31:15,320
Speaker 1: it takes time to create those so they didn't know

629
00:31:15,320 --> 00:31:17,000
Speaker 1: if long term it was a good investment. They just

630
00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:20,640
Speaker 1: had their quarterly earnings. Obviously they've done very well for themselves.

631
00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:22,760
Speaker 1: But at the moment, it does seem that if there

632
00:31:22,840 --> 00:31:26,280
Speaker 1: is another spr release that could also really bring prices lower,

633
00:31:26,280 --> 00:31:27,720
Speaker 1: and people are worried that there's just not going to

634
00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:30,080
Speaker 1: be a supply buffer in the market for when we

635
00:31:30,120 --> 00:31:32,880
Speaker 1: really need sound like there needs to be another prices

636
00:31:32,880 --> 00:31:36,200
Speaker 1: coming down. I've got the daily national average gasoline prices

637
00:31:36,240 --> 00:31:39,320
Speaker 1: here on my screen. I do three A G S,

638
00:31:39,400 --> 00:31:41,840
Speaker 1: P R E M, so I can see what the

639
00:31:41,840 --> 00:31:44,800
Speaker 1: premium prices. You do the premium because that you have

640
00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:48,560
Speaker 1: to fill up with one at least, right and technically

641
00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:51,120
Speaker 1: I think you do too, yes, so even if you

642
00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:54,600
Speaker 1: puts worth of repairs, I just had four dollars and

643
00:31:54,680 --> 00:31:56,720
Speaker 1: fifty one cents is what I'm looking at right now.

644
00:31:56,840 --> 00:32:00,560
Speaker 1: And by the way, the gasoline price also went into

645
00:32:00,600 --> 00:32:02,800
Speaker 1: a death cross at the end of August. It's been

646
00:32:02,800 --> 00:32:07,480
Speaker 1: coming down, uh pretty, but diesels still very pressibly. Diesel

647
00:32:07,480 --> 00:32:09,520
Speaker 1: is still very high. Gasoline obviously came down. We've been

648
00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:12,240
Speaker 1: trying to track these demand numbers with the e A

649
00:32:12,320 --> 00:32:14,400
Speaker 1: seeing how much, and there have been they've been a

650
00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:16,400
Speaker 1: little bit funky these past couple of weeks, you know,

651
00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:18,719
Speaker 1: with some demand numbers saying, oh, it was lower than

652
00:32:18,760 --> 00:32:22,000
Speaker 1: twenty and not all these treators are actually believing that. So,

653
00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:25,200
Speaker 1: but prices have really come down, especially as people weren't

654
00:32:25,280 --> 00:32:27,440
Speaker 1: driving that much, and we know that people didn't drive

655
00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:29,720
Speaker 1: that much as summer because of high gasoline prices, and

656
00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:33,200
Speaker 1: now obviously the summer season with labor Dagon over pd

657
00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:37,600
Speaker 1: S one is the ticker for diesel generic first and

658
00:32:37,720 --> 00:32:40,360
Speaker 1: blah blah blah blah, it's something that's still high. I

659
00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:43,320
Speaker 1: mean it's just a month contract. Yeah, yeah, So it's

660
00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:46,280
Speaker 1: a fifteen dollars fifteen cents. You know, started a year

661
00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:49,160
Speaker 1: ago we were down below eighth, so it's had it

662
00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:51,120
Speaker 1: hasn't really come back down that much. So diesels, if

663
00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:54,400
Speaker 1: you're driving a diesel vehicle, that's tough, right. Well, and

664
00:32:54,840 --> 00:32:59,040
Speaker 1: well that's because Russian oil, for example, is a grade

665
00:32:59,040 --> 00:33:01,320
Speaker 1: that they used to produce diesel, right, and that's not

666
00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:04,120
Speaker 1: getting in here. Um, and the stuff that we produced

667
00:33:04,160 --> 00:33:08,320
Speaker 1: in Texas, Um, it's not it's not heavy enough. Is

668
00:33:08,400 --> 00:33:10,600
Speaker 1: that the case? Yeah, I think so. And also let's

669
00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:12,600
Speaker 1: think about the fact that American drivers are so focused

670
00:33:12,600 --> 00:33:14,560
Speaker 1: on gasling. But for Europe, as you mentioned, diesel is

671
00:33:14,560 --> 00:33:16,680
Speaker 1: still very high, so they're still feeling that crunch as

672
00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:18,480
Speaker 1: we go into winter, and there's going to be more

673
00:33:18,480 --> 00:33:21,320
Speaker 1: fuel switching from natural gas to oil because natural gas

674
00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:24,560
Speaker 1: prices are very high. So the market's murky right now.

675
00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:27,040
Speaker 1: People really don't know which direction it's going to take

676
00:33:27,040 --> 00:33:28,960
Speaker 1: in the upcoming months. All Right, it's gonna be I

677
00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:30,840
Speaker 1: tay that that story coming out of Europe is gonna

678
00:33:30,840 --> 00:33:33,400
Speaker 1: be really brutal. I think you know, it sounds like

679
00:33:33,440 --> 00:33:35,600
Speaker 1: it's getting a little bit better that they've did. Your

680
00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:39,040
Speaker 1: putin this morning. No, he said, just give us our propellers,

681
00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:43,120
Speaker 1: you know, and we'll continue to pump oil and gas. Sorry,

682
00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:46,120
Speaker 1: through nord Stream one. He said, it's really the European

683
00:33:46,200 --> 00:33:49,600
Speaker 1: sanctions and regulations that are doing this now. Whether or

684
00:33:49,600 --> 00:33:51,840
Speaker 1: not you want to take Ladimir Putin at his word

685
00:33:51,920 --> 00:33:54,680
Speaker 1: is your own decision. But he also said nord Stream

686
00:33:54,680 --> 00:33:56,160
Speaker 1: two is ready. We'll open it up as soon as

687
00:33:56,200 --> 00:33:58,560
Speaker 1: you want, all right, Julia, thanks so much for joining

688
00:33:58,600 --> 00:34:01,400
Speaker 1: us here. Julia Friends Sarris, oil futures reporter for a

689
00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:06,720
Speaker 1: Bloomberg News joinings here. Thanks for listening to the Bloomberg

690
00:34:06,760 --> 00:34:10,160
Speaker 1: Markets podcast. You can subscribe and listen to interviews with

691
00:34:10,239 --> 00:34:15,040
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts or whatever podcast platform you prefer. I'm Matt Miller.

692
00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:19,160
Speaker 1: I'm on Twitter at Matt Miller three. Pet On Ball

693
00:34:19,200 --> 00:34:22,080
Speaker 1: Sweeney I'm on Twitter at pt Sweeney. Before the podcast,

694
00:34:22,120 --> 00:34:24,640
Speaker 1: you can always catch us worldwide at Bloomberg Radio