WEBVTT - Interview with Blue Eye Samurai Creators Amber Noizumi and Michael Green 0:00:00.320 --> 0:00:06.000 Warning, Today's episode contains kind of contains spoilers for Blue 0:00:06.000 --> 0:00:25.680 Eyed Samurai. Hello, my name is Jason Exceptio and I'm 0:00:25.760 --> 0:00:28.120 Rosy Night, and welcome back to x Ray Vision of 0:00:28.200 --> 0:00:31.639 podcast where we dive deep to your favorite shows, movies, 0:00:31.680 --> 0:00:34.559 comics and pop culture. Coming to you from my Heart podcast, 0:00:34.600 --> 0:00:38.040 where we're bringing you two episodes week every Tuesday and Thursday. 0:00:38.720 --> 0:00:39.839 In today's episode. 0:00:40.280 --> 0:00:44.680 In the previously on, we're talking about that stunningly impressive 0:00:44.760 --> 0:00:48.080 Alien Romulus box office in space. Everyone can hear you 0:00:48.120 --> 0:00:51.440 make money apparently because it's making money. We're talking Archie 0:00:51.479 --> 0:00:55.200 comics and a new superhero take that they're bringing out, 0:00:55.480 --> 0:01:02.840 and the controversy and slowly unfolded revelations around X Men 0:01:02.920 --> 0:01:08.240 ninety seven show runner Bodomeo. And in a wonderful interview, 0:01:08.520 --> 0:01:10.959 Jason will be chatting to the Blue Eye Samurai create 0:01:11.040 --> 0:01:14.440 as Amba Nazumi and Michael Green Up next. 0:01:14.560 --> 0:01:22.080 Previously on, First Up on News. Alien Romulus box office 0:01:22.160 --> 0:01:25.680 numbers are in Oh baby, folks, it is a hit. 0:01:25.920 --> 0:01:29.800 Forty one and a half million domestically, sixty six point 0:01:29.880 --> 0:01:34.600 seven million internationally, a total of one hundred and eight 0:01:35.720 --> 0:01:40.520 million plus globally. Wows Part of the secret sauce, of course, 0:01:40.600 --> 0:01:42.440 is does the movie open in China. It opened in 0:01:42.520 --> 0:01:46.560 China twenty five point seven million in China, and folks, 0:01:46.640 --> 0:01:48.440 big hit Alien Romulus. 0:01:48.480 --> 0:01:50.440 This is just unbelievable. 0:01:51.000 --> 0:01:55.639 Smash it full overseas debut on twentieth Century Studios. Slash 0:01:55.680 --> 0:01:58.640 Disney's Alien Romulus is forty seven percent ahead of A 0:01:58.720 --> 0:02:02.120 Quiet Place Day one Hello, which I feel like everyone 0:02:02.200 --> 0:02:02.800 was like, this is. 0:02:02.720 --> 0:02:03.240 A good hit. 0:02:03.480 --> 0:02:07.480 Also seventeen percent above the controversial but now kind of 0:02:07.520 --> 0:02:10.880 in hindsight, loved Prometheus in like for like markets, So 0:02:10.960 --> 0:02:14.040 I'm just saying movie is great. Enjoyed the movie, love 0:02:14.080 --> 0:02:17.120 to see the good box office numbers. I also have 0:02:17.200 --> 0:02:19.760 to say, sure, it is also a Disney movie, so 0:02:20.240 --> 0:02:22.520 you know, but Disney kind of went low on the 0:02:22.600 --> 0:02:24.720 marketing with this one. I think there was not a 0:02:24.760 --> 0:02:26.840 lot of promo in the same way there was for 0:02:26.919 --> 0:02:29.919 like Deadpool, So I think it's kind of crazy that 0:02:30.000 --> 0:02:33.120 this overtook Deadpool in just like a couple of weeks. 0:02:33.480 --> 0:02:35.679 Yes, you know, but I like to see it. It's 0:02:35.760 --> 0:02:37.720 like we said, you can always bet on horror. 0:02:38.000 --> 0:02:38.560 Yes you can. 0:02:38.639 --> 0:02:40.400 That's what we're finding at the box office, and we're 0:02:40.440 --> 0:02:41.960 gonna be talking about a lot more horror as we get 0:02:41.960 --> 0:02:42.840 into spooky season. 0:02:42.960 --> 0:02:47.120 Next up, Archie Comics, the home to the Archie line 0:02:47.160 --> 0:02:50.040 of comics, but also back in the day, way way 0:02:50.080 --> 0:02:53.960 way back, a line of superhero comics and a variety 0:02:54.000 --> 0:02:58.960 of other comic book stories, is getting back into the 0:02:59.000 --> 0:03:04.400 superheroes with Rarioru miniseries. That quote blends a metaitextual examination 0:03:04.440 --> 0:03:07.480 of Archie comics history with superheroes and the Golden Age 0:03:07.520 --> 0:03:10.720 of comics with a new story of Archie himself coming 0:03:10.720 --> 0:03:14.000 into Powers Unknown and becoming the world's mightiest hero. First 0:03:14.000 --> 0:03:15.280 release is November twentieth. 0:03:15.480 --> 0:03:19.160 Rosie series is called Archie Is Mister Justice. I feel 0:03:19.160 --> 0:03:20.320 like the titles a little bit longer. 0:03:20.400 --> 0:03:22.800 Yes, I think Mister Justice could have been cool, but 0:03:22.840 --> 0:03:25.120 I'm sure that might be part of the metatextual nature 0:03:25.160 --> 0:03:27.920 of it. And what I do like about this is 0:03:28.000 --> 0:03:31.160 all the conversation around it is essentially Archie is like 0:03:31.200 --> 0:03:33.359 a good guy. And Mike Norton, who's going to be 0:03:33.360 --> 0:03:35.760 the artist on the first issue, he basically said that 0:03:35.920 --> 0:03:38.000 is really what this is about, Like, what is it 0:03:38.120 --> 0:03:42.240 like to be an incorruptible soul in like a corrupt world, Like, 0:03:42.320 --> 0:03:43.960 what will we see Archie get into. 0:03:44.120 --> 0:03:46.960 I'm interested. I'm a lover of the. 0:03:46.880 --> 0:03:51.720 Weird Riverdale esque, you know, the horror Archie style stuff, 0:03:51.760 --> 0:03:53.160 so this is very interesting to me. 0:03:53.200 --> 0:03:55.360 They've definitely been trying a lot of stuff out. 0:03:55.520 --> 0:03:58.720 There was recently an Archie one shot that was like 0:03:58.800 --> 0:04:02.240 a take on basically Fist of the North Stop but 0:04:02.280 --> 0:04:05.040 with Archie, and Yeah, they've been really getting out that 0:04:05.160 --> 0:04:07.480 with some of these things. They did a horror anthology 0:04:07.480 --> 0:04:11.080 called Pop's Chocolate Shop. So I think this is gonna 0:04:11.080 --> 0:04:13.560 be interesting and definitely could be kind of like what 0:04:13.600 --> 0:04:15.440 we saw pre Rivedell where that was kind of a 0:04:15.440 --> 0:04:18.520 Boom and Archie comics. So we'll have to check it out. 0:04:18.720 --> 0:04:22.960 And finally, former X Men ninety seven showrunner bo DeMeo 0:04:23.360 --> 0:04:29.279 has surfaced. Last week, he posted that he had lost 0:04:29.279 --> 0:04:33.000 his season two credits, which he had worked on season two, 0:04:34.320 --> 0:04:36.880 because of a gay Pride post. It kind of like 0:04:37.120 --> 0:04:43.240 very very team illustration of himself that he posted to 0:04:43.320 --> 0:04:46.160 social media, and he said that that's the reason that 0:04:46.240 --> 0:04:51.040 Disney took his season two credit, but in that post, 0:04:51.520 --> 0:04:54.520 he did not grapple with why he was let go 0:04:54.560 --> 0:04:57.600 in the first place. Disney then fired back, saying no, 0:04:57.640 --> 0:05:02.000 it's actually because of a litany of serious allegations, including 0:05:02.120 --> 0:05:08.920 unwanted nudes sent to staffers, including other unwant sexual harassment. Yeah, 0:05:09.240 --> 0:05:15.720 other unwanted advances, and you hate to see it, and 0:05:15.800 --> 0:05:19.560 I hate to see it. Certainly appears, Rosie. We've been 0:05:19.600 --> 0:05:23.240 talking about this quite a bit on chat. The alleations 0:05:23.320 --> 0:05:27.080 are serious and bad. It was also it also seems 0:05:27.120 --> 0:05:31.800 as if Disney was going to let this go away quietly. 0:05:32.839 --> 0:05:34.800 If he didn't, if he didn't. 0:05:34.560 --> 0:05:38.920 Tweet about it and hear he is posting about it, 0:05:39.080 --> 0:05:41.880 causing Disney to fire back. Just a sad situational. 0:05:42.400 --> 0:05:43.760 Definitely a sad situation. 0:05:44.279 --> 0:05:48.400 I'm feeling for the people who were impacted by this 0:05:48.920 --> 0:05:53.080 worked on the show. I also feel for the cost 0:05:53.160 --> 0:05:55.839 and crew because I feel like because of the nature 0:05:56.040 --> 0:05:59.400 of whatever agreement Disney made with BO, it kind of 0:05:59.520 --> 0:06:01.720 stayed on the radar, so he's been doing a lot 0:06:01.760 --> 0:06:02.800 of events with them. 0:06:02.920 --> 0:06:04.880 It kind of looked like they were backing him. 0:06:05.120 --> 0:06:09.280 Like Disney did make some weird choices here, like Barad 0:06:09.320 --> 0:06:11.960 Winderborm came out and said what good work BO had 0:06:11.960 --> 0:06:15.120 done to make it look like it wasn't there wasn't 0:06:15.200 --> 0:06:18.599 kind of any issues between the two of them after 0:06:18.640 --> 0:06:23.280 he left. But yeah, it's it's not ideal. You hate 0:06:23.320 --> 0:06:28.080 to see it, and it makes sense now why they 0:06:28.120 --> 0:06:30.480 bought in new writers for season two to kind of 0:06:30.520 --> 0:06:32.960 adapt it and to see what happens. So I hope 0:06:32.960 --> 0:06:36.160 that everyone who's still working on the show is fine, 0:06:36.440 --> 0:06:38.800 and I'm sure this will not be the last we 0:06:38.839 --> 0:06:41.960 hear of this, because bo also has a very aggressive 0:06:42.080 --> 0:06:45.960 lawyer who put out a statement after the Disney statement 0:06:46.560 --> 0:06:49.560 that was it sounds on him. 0:06:50.760 --> 0:06:53.320 I'm not a legal person, but it felt a lot. 0:06:53.360 --> 0:06:56.360 It doesn't feel Yeah, it doesn't feel like a statement 0:06:56.360 --> 0:06:57.160 a lawyer would make. 0:06:57.200 --> 0:06:59.320 So I'm sure this is not the last we've heard 0:06:59.360 --> 0:06:59.560 of this. 0:06:59.640 --> 0:07:03.320 That's right. Well, coming up next, we're stepping out of 0:07:03.320 --> 0:07:06.360 their lock and talking to Blue Eyed Samurai creators Amber 0:07:06.520 --> 0:07:25.240 Noi Zuomi and Michael Green. We're so delighted to welcome 0:07:25.480 --> 0:07:29.120 Amber Noi Zuomi and Michael Green, the co creators of 0:07:29.160 --> 0:07:32.640 Blue Eyed Samurai on Netflix. Welcome to the show, and 0:07:32.680 --> 0:07:33.960 thank you so much for joining. 0:07:33.720 --> 0:07:35.520 Us, Thank you for having me, Thank you. 0:07:36.160 --> 0:07:40.320 Let's start with the latest news first. So season two 0:07:40.800 --> 0:07:43.240 expected not until twenty twenty six. I am of the 0:07:43.280 --> 0:07:45.400 opinion that good things are worth waiting for, and that 0:07:45.520 --> 0:07:50.840 excellent things, which truly, truly, truly Bloyd Samurai is so good, 0:07:51.120 --> 0:07:56.120 so excellent, excellent things are really worth waiting for. Explain 0:07:56.240 --> 0:07:59.280 to our audience, who I'm sure are ravenous for the 0:07:59.320 --> 0:08:03.840 new season. Why making something as good as this takes time? 0:08:04.280 --> 0:08:07.640 Sort of like ordering the souflet. It says on the menu, Yeah, 0:08:07.640 --> 0:08:09.840 to take forty minutes, So if you want it, order 0:08:09.920 --> 0:08:15.119 it early. Yeah. But right now we're on schedule. Because 0:08:15.200 --> 0:08:18.480 there was some some uh, there was different information going up. 0:08:18.640 --> 0:08:22.240 We can confirm November twenty twenty six is when we 0:08:22.280 --> 0:08:23.640 are on the Netflix schedule. 0:08:23.680 --> 0:08:27.640 We're we are on track to deliver it then. And 0:08:28.000 --> 0:08:31.200 I mean, look, we could you know, we could do 0:08:31.520 --> 0:08:35.520 really rinkaging animation and get it phone these scripts in 0:08:35.679 --> 0:08:38.320 get it, get it yeah, in six months. 0:08:38.360 --> 0:08:39.839 But you know, these things take time. 0:08:39.960 --> 0:08:46.079 We have our artists who diligently, you know, research everything 0:08:46.320 --> 0:08:49.160 to make it, you know, really come to life. And 0:08:49.440 --> 0:08:52.960 you know, we're we're trying our best to write scripts 0:08:53.000 --> 0:08:54.200 that are worthy of our audience. 0:08:54.960 --> 0:08:57.160 And you know, but you know, the whole show, it 0:08:57.160 --> 0:08:58.439 really just goes back to how we made it in 0:08:58.480 --> 0:09:01.280 the first place. That teak nature to this show. We 0:09:01.559 --> 0:09:04.679 you know, our animation studio is Blue Spirit. They're wonderful, 0:09:04.720 --> 0:09:09.560 they are talented, and it's outside the sort of run 0:09:09.559 --> 0:09:12.480 and gun smash it out as quickly as you can. 0:09:13.000 --> 0:09:14.640 And there are plenty of shows that are amazing. I'm 0:09:14.679 --> 0:09:17.920 not denigrating to anyone's pipeline, but we chose something that 0:09:19.080 --> 0:09:23.040 just takes a bit more time. So first season was 0:09:23.120 --> 0:09:27.000 definitely a fluffy sou flet. And right now we are 0:09:27.080 --> 0:09:29.160 beating the egg whites and a little pinch of tartar, 0:09:29.280 --> 0:09:35.240 cream of tartar, and uh maybe truffles, little truffles, truffle 0:09:35.320 --> 0:09:40.320 season truffle pig. We literally just confirmed with our team 0:09:40.360 --> 0:09:43.040 that we're going to have a pig in an episode forward. 0:09:42.880 --> 0:09:43.080 To the. 0:09:44.600 --> 0:09:48.720 You've spoken about in previous interviews. The genesis of the 0:09:48.760 --> 0:09:51.720 idea of this, this kind of long gest stating project 0:09:52.160 --> 0:09:54.719 that has become Blue Eid. Samurai is wondering if you 0:09:54.760 --> 0:09:58.080 could expound on that for our audience. This is inspired 0:09:58.120 --> 0:10:01.360 by your multi racial daughter, and then how do you 0:10:01.400 --> 0:10:05.040 get from there to the show that we've all watched. 0:10:05.440 --> 0:10:06.680 That's that's a good question. 0:10:08.160 --> 0:10:11.360 I mean, yeah, I mean it started out as actually 0:10:11.400 --> 0:10:18.120 the icky feelings that I had about my views of 0:10:18.160 --> 0:10:23.680 my daughter who looked more white than Asian, and being like, ooh, 0:10:23.720 --> 0:10:26.000 she's got blue ass, it's so pretty. She's got you know, 0:10:26.040 --> 0:10:30.080 blondish hair, and being excited and why am I excited 0:10:30.080 --> 0:10:35.240 about that? And those conflicting feelings I think so many 0:10:36.160 --> 0:10:41.840 mixed race people have, like wanting to appear more like 0:10:41.880 --> 0:10:45.360 one culture than the other, or and then the feelings 0:10:45.360 --> 0:10:51.079 of shame about maybe wanting to reject one side and 0:10:51.160 --> 0:10:53.600 just and sometimes it goes back and forth your whole life. 0:10:53.440 --> 0:10:55.000 Where you want to be more of this or more that. 0:10:55.960 --> 0:10:59.680 And yeah, I mean, look, we turned that into a 0:10:59.760 --> 0:11:03.400 care character who really just loathes this part of her, 0:11:04.080 --> 0:11:08.160 and you know, we're hoping to, you know, really complicate 0:11:08.200 --> 0:11:11.360 those emotions where I don't want to give anything away. 0:11:11.400 --> 0:11:14.560 But maybe she you know, starts to embrace parts of 0:11:14.559 --> 0:11:18.040 her that she wouldn't have before and embraces new people 0:11:18.080 --> 0:11:20.959 in her life when she's able to accept some things 0:11:20.960 --> 0:11:23.400 about herself, which I think is a journey for all 0:11:23.440 --> 0:11:24.080 of us. 0:11:24.520 --> 0:11:28.719 Yeah, I think I was workshopping this feeling I had 0:11:28.760 --> 0:11:31.240 about the show with the production team. I think one 0:11:31.280 --> 0:11:33.360 of the things I really it hits me so hard 0:11:33.400 --> 0:11:37.720 about the show is that that's to your point, you know, 0:11:37.760 --> 0:11:42.240 as an Asian in media and entertainment, I think one 0:11:42.280 --> 0:11:45.000 of the things that can feel wearying is like the 0:11:45.040 --> 0:11:50.240 whole conversation around diversity. It feels like sometimes like you're 0:11:50.320 --> 0:11:53.880 shoving like medicine down people's throats. And this show is 0:11:54.920 --> 0:12:00.200 it's so authentic to its characters and their journey and 0:12:00.280 --> 0:12:05.080 everything else is there, all the themes, the very real 0:12:06.000 --> 0:12:10.720 experiences of being a multi racial slash agent character that 0:12:10.760 --> 0:12:14.240 feels out of place. It's all right there if you 0:12:14.320 --> 0:12:16.520 want to engage with it. But it's also just like 0:12:16.559 --> 0:12:21.640 a ripping story that's wonderfully told and looks so good. 0:12:22.120 --> 0:12:22.640 How do you. 0:12:22.679 --> 0:12:25.360 Balance How did you balance all of that stuff, that 0:12:25.440 --> 0:12:29.559 the themes, the things you want to say, and also 0:12:29.920 --> 0:12:33.800 just create a great engaging story that I feel like 0:12:34.400 --> 0:12:38.120 anybody could watch and feel like, wow, that was awesome. 0:12:38.720 --> 0:12:41.440 I mean, I think with our story, it just you know, 0:12:41.520 --> 0:12:45.640 it was just something that had been as you called it, 0:12:45.720 --> 0:12:50.119 gest dating for so long that we weren't trying to 0:12:50.240 --> 0:12:55.120 check any boxes or fulfill an assignment, and you know, 0:12:55.200 --> 0:12:59.040 that's no, that's no shade to any other show out there, 0:12:59.080 --> 0:13:05.320 who of course pasts somebody diverse. Diversity is wonderful all 0:13:05.360 --> 0:13:09.840 the way around. But this, this just is a story 0:13:10.120 --> 0:13:11.720 about a mixed race person. 0:13:12.000 --> 0:13:14.240 We're not shoehorning in any themes. 0:13:14.520 --> 0:13:17.839 And it takes place in Japan, so all of the 0:13:17.920 --> 0:13:20.720 culture is innate to the story. 0:13:21.280 --> 0:13:26.079 So all story flowed from a character in a predicament. 0:13:26.960 --> 0:13:27.679 It's an intention. 0:13:28.440 --> 0:13:31.800 So that was just you know, someone wants revenge of 0:13:31.800 --> 0:13:34.760 a certain type in a certain place, and she looks 0:13:34.800 --> 0:13:39.480 like this, So everything just flowed from there. And I 0:13:39.520 --> 0:13:42.840 won't say the storytelling was easy, but it was natural. 0:13:42.880 --> 0:13:46.320 We always knew if something wasn't right very quickly, so 0:13:46.480 --> 0:13:49.960 I don't think we went down many wrong roads. It 0:13:50.000 --> 0:13:52.079 was always about how to get things right and then 0:13:52.160 --> 0:13:55.200 just conversation. We kept layering it, you know, like we 0:13:55.280 --> 0:13:58.560 had it tenth draft. Wasn't good enough for us by 0:13:58.559 --> 0:14:01.200 the time we shared it with anyone else. It was, 0:14:01.720 --> 0:14:04.839 you know, just the stories we felt we had to tell. 0:14:05.320 --> 0:14:06.959 Yeah, I mean, and I think we just we need 0:14:07.000 --> 0:14:11.959 more stories out there where the main character is a 0:14:12.200 --> 0:14:16.840 person of color, and sometimes people try to put in 0:14:16.880 --> 0:14:20.560 a character just to check the box and it feels 0:14:20.560 --> 0:14:24.720 forced or it can feel forced sometimes, so you know, 0:14:25.040 --> 0:14:29.200 just more stories about different kinds of people. 0:14:29.600 --> 0:14:32.320 Let's talk about the cast, because I think one of 0:14:32.360 --> 0:14:35.840 the cast is so stacked and amazing, and I think 0:14:35.880 --> 0:14:39.320 one of the indications that y'all did get it right 0:14:39.400 --> 0:14:43.120 with your script was, you know, I've read various interviews 0:14:43.120 --> 0:14:45.080 from the cast where they're asking, oh, yeah, what was 0:14:45.120 --> 0:14:46.680 the casting process like, and you're like, well, we sent 0:14:46.760 --> 0:14:49.280 it out and people just said yes immediately, so what 0:14:49.440 --> 0:14:50.120 was You don't. 0:14:49.920 --> 0:14:52.160 Always get that lucky, but I was remembering that, like 0:14:52.200 --> 0:14:53.640 George d Kay was our first yes. 0:14:53.720 --> 0:14:55.800 I think we're like really like. 0:14:57.440 --> 0:14:59.560 Okay, like okay, that was you know, we thought that 0:14:59.560 --> 0:15:02.480 would be a one like that, and people were you know, 0:15:02.560 --> 0:15:05.400 they they read it and they liked it. 0:15:05.400 --> 0:15:07.840 It was COVID, so there's some people. 0:15:08.040 --> 0:15:10.600 You know, people had time to read it if if 0:15:10.640 --> 0:15:13.360 they weren't going crazy in their own homes. It was 0:15:13.400 --> 0:15:15.000 a remote show that people could work on. 0:15:15.120 --> 0:15:18.440 But I mean at the time, there hadn't been many 0:15:19.280 --> 0:15:24.920 adult animated shows like this, and we we were worried 0:15:24.960 --> 0:15:26.520 people be like, what they want us to do? 0:15:26.560 --> 0:15:28.760 A cartoon? Like I'm not doing a cartoon. 0:15:30.200 --> 0:15:33.720 But I think I think the pandemic allowed people to 0:15:33.760 --> 0:15:35.200 just be like, all right, I'll try anything. 0:15:35.400 --> 0:15:36.320 I just want to work. 0:15:36.880 --> 0:15:38.440 And it was it was so much because like you know, 0:15:38.480 --> 0:15:40.320 they they kind of did it on spec I mean 0:15:40.320 --> 0:15:42.840 obviously they were they were higher, but like creatively, we 0:15:42.880 --> 0:15:44.800 would be telling them what it would be, but we 0:15:44.840 --> 0:15:47.160 had nothing to point to. And then you know, maybe 0:15:47.160 --> 0:15:49.320 a few months down the line after they'd recorded, we're like, hey, 0:15:49.320 --> 0:15:51.320 here's a picture of your character, and they're like, oh, 0:15:51.360 --> 0:15:53.520 it's going to look like this, and then we'd show that. 0:15:53.600 --> 0:15:57.080 You know, they'd come back for the rare bit of adr. 0:15:56.920 --> 0:15:59.040 And you know, they would see like scenes and they'd 0:15:59.080 --> 0:16:02.200 be like what you know, and it was really touching, 0:16:02.320 --> 0:16:04.560 like the reactions we got. I mean, speaking of George 0:16:04.640 --> 0:16:06.960 k one of the nicest things anyone said early on 0:16:07.000 --> 0:16:08.520 when he was doing some medir he saw it and 0:16:08.520 --> 0:16:11.280 he said, you need to get this out sooner. People need, 0:16:11.320 --> 0:16:13.320 you know, we need this kind of thing out there. 0:16:13.480 --> 0:16:15.800 And we said, George, we are drawing it as fast 0:16:15.840 --> 0:16:16.760 as we fucking can. 0:16:18.600 --> 0:16:19.720 We are the. 0:16:19.560 --> 0:16:23.359 Animators in Montreal and in France are you know, blistering 0:16:23.400 --> 0:16:24.040 their fingers? 0:16:24.640 --> 0:16:27.320 I think there can be for people who aren't steeped 0:16:27.360 --> 0:16:31.040 in animation, there can be kind of like a preconceived 0:16:31.040 --> 0:16:34.480 notion about what animation is. It's for kids. Did you 0:16:34.480 --> 0:16:36.040 need to overcome that at all? 0:16:36.520 --> 0:16:38.920 I think we're still trying to overcome that. I think 0:16:38.960 --> 0:16:39.920 people do. 0:16:40.120 --> 0:16:41.920 I think the audio, I mean the audience, I mean 0:16:42.120 --> 0:16:46.440 the audience has a definitely has a preconceived idea of 0:16:46.880 --> 0:16:51.040 you know, adult animation is comedy, right like The Symptoms 0:16:51.080 --> 0:16:54.880 and Big Mouth Family Guy, which are great shows. But 0:16:56.120 --> 0:16:59.480 or there's anime, and anime is for a specific type 0:16:59.480 --> 0:17:03.800 of person. So we wanted we wanted to show somebody, 0:17:03.840 --> 0:17:07.800 you know, show people that, I mean, animation is just storytelling, 0:17:08.240 --> 0:17:09.160 and you know there's. 0:17:09.000 --> 0:17:11.600 Some of it out there, like Undone on Amazon, wonderful 0:17:11.600 --> 0:17:14.240 show half an Hour took a lot of people by surprise, like, wow, 0:17:14.280 --> 0:17:16.560 this is a grown up show happens to be animated 0:17:16.800 --> 0:17:19.560 because it fell so neatly and with its themes. And 0:17:19.600 --> 0:17:22.159 then you have a show like Invincible, which is super 0:17:22.200 --> 0:17:25.040 fun but definitely feels more like what people expect from 0:17:25.040 --> 0:17:28.159 adult animation, saying with Harlee and Ivy and now Kiteman all. 0:17:28.040 --> 0:17:29.080 Great shows we enjoy. 0:17:29.320 --> 0:17:33.119 Yeah, you know when we kept saying, but like our 0:17:33.119 --> 0:17:36.879 emotions are grounded, our storytelling is grounded, and you know, 0:17:36.920 --> 0:17:39.560 it was a lot of like people kind of getting 0:17:39.560 --> 0:17:42.840 it intellectually or kind of going okay, But performance wise, 0:17:42.840 --> 0:17:45.600 when when we were working with the actors, it was 0:17:45.640 --> 0:17:49.480 a very it's very I mean, records were fun and easy, 0:17:49.560 --> 0:17:51.800 like we would just talk about it. They would read 0:17:51.840 --> 0:17:53.359 the scenes and they're like, okay, so we're playing the 0:17:53.359 --> 0:17:58.000 straight yep, and everyone kind of keyed in really quickly 0:17:58.040 --> 0:18:00.239 and well, so that way, when we went to our 0:18:00.240 --> 0:18:05.199 storyboard process, they were boarding off of those performances. So 0:18:05.520 --> 0:18:08.240 you know, internally everyone got it. Netflix got it. They 0:18:08.880 --> 0:18:12.160 We never had to do anything any backflips to explain 0:18:12.200 --> 0:18:15.320 to them what we were after. It's more that since 0:18:15.600 --> 0:18:17.600 the show was you know, since a trailer went to 0:18:17.640 --> 0:18:20.119 the world, people were kind of like even my friends 0:18:20.160 --> 0:18:22.560 I'd been telling the show about for years saw the trailer. 0:18:22.600 --> 0:18:25.679 First time, I went, oh, that's what you meant. We 0:18:25.720 --> 0:18:29.560 thought you were nuts because for two and a half 0:18:29.560 --> 0:18:31.199 three years we've been saying, you know, Amber and I 0:18:31.200 --> 0:18:34.800 are doing this thing, and they're like, oh no, they would. 0:18:34.840 --> 0:18:36.800 Like one of my best friends said, this is really 0:18:36.840 --> 0:18:37.720 good like. 0:18:37.760 --> 0:18:44.120 You you really like, yeah, you know, you're finally doing 0:18:44.160 --> 0:18:46.639 cartoons like you always want to, and you know, and 0:18:47.840 --> 0:18:50.080 it's great that a lot of audience members were surprisedly, 0:18:50.200 --> 0:18:52.480 I didn't know animation could do this, But it's more 0:18:52.480 --> 0:18:54.600 fun when people are like, finally more animation like we. 0:18:54.480 --> 0:18:54.960 Were hoping for. 0:19:11.359 --> 0:19:14.600 The show has so many unexpected turns, and I think 0:19:14.600 --> 0:19:17.680 one of my favorite ones is the relationship between that 0:19:17.840 --> 0:19:23.320 Meets You and Tigan, which starts out as antagonistic and 0:19:23.320 --> 0:19:26.919 then develops into something that I think I've never really 0:19:26.920 --> 0:19:31.520 seen before, which is, you know, there's still foils who 0:19:31.560 --> 0:19:35.040 are working together. What was it like developing that storyline. 0:19:35.040 --> 0:19:37.679 It's so fun because it's respected again. 0:19:37.520 --> 0:19:40.720 They grudgingly start to respect each you know, game game 0:19:40.480 --> 0:19:41.680 the Yeah. 0:19:41.480 --> 0:19:43.959 I mean I think we're still we're still definitely exploring it. 0:19:44.640 --> 0:19:45.000 But yeah. 0:19:45.040 --> 0:19:51.000 That was always our intention, was that Mitsu only understood 0:19:51.080 --> 0:19:54.159 one thing, and that was revenge and sword play. And 0:19:54.200 --> 0:19:58.119 so even as much as she hated Tigan's guts, he 0:19:58.200 --> 0:20:01.639 gets that, like they have they have this shared hyper 0:20:01.640 --> 0:20:05.720 focus of you know, swordsmanships, and so he's he's the 0:20:06.119 --> 0:20:09.160 closest she has to somebody who gets her. 0:20:09.680 --> 0:20:14.000 I mean when he draws up a contract. Yes, and 0:20:14.080 --> 0:20:15.879 it was it was wonderful. 0:20:16.320 --> 0:20:18.359 Yeah, he's he's trying to make it formal because at 0:20:18.359 --> 0:20:20.199 the time you could have formal like okay, we're going 0:20:20.240 --> 0:20:22.000 to do all right, And they put him up as 0:20:22.000 --> 0:20:24.359 a placard in the center of town like this was 0:20:24.400 --> 0:20:27.959 a public, formalized thing you could do, and mesas like, 0:20:28.359 --> 0:20:29.920 you know, fuck that. If you want to, if you 0:20:29.960 --> 0:20:31.600 want to kill someone, you just take a knife and 0:20:31.640 --> 0:20:35.080 you kill him. Why why being so fancy? And he's 0:20:35.200 --> 0:20:36.840 because he wants to get his honor back. He's you know, 0:20:36.920 --> 0:20:39.520 he's trying to reclaim a title and a and a 0:20:39.560 --> 0:20:42.000 man bun that was got you know, she got his hair. 0:20:42.080 --> 0:20:45.439 That was a big loss of stature. So it was 0:20:45.480 --> 0:20:47.680 definitely a fun It was a relationship that surprised us. 0:20:47.680 --> 0:20:51.040 And you know, you make assumptions about people, uh, you know, 0:20:51.160 --> 0:20:53.640 based on share childhood, Jason, just do you think they are? 0:20:53.960 --> 0:20:58.399 And then she she begrudgingly starts to respect him. The 0:20:58.480 --> 0:21:00.439 part that always got me is that when he was 0:21:00.480 --> 0:21:02.800 being tortured for information about Mesu, he doesn't give it up. 0:21:03.560 --> 0:21:04.359 Yeah, because it's like. 0:21:04.640 --> 0:21:06.359 It would have been you know, it would have been nicer. 0:21:06.480 --> 0:21:09.600 But like there's a there's an innate sense of honor. 0:21:10.040 --> 0:21:14.040 This is clearly such a deeply researched piece of work. 0:21:14.880 --> 0:21:17.439 What was that process like And how do you not 0:21:17.480 --> 0:21:19.160 get lost in the rear It. 0:21:19.160 --> 0:21:21.040 Is very easy to get lost in the research. 0:21:21.840 --> 0:21:24.159 It's it was fun research. I have a few I 0:21:24.160 --> 0:21:26.560 don't have a rule about it. You just as a writer, 0:21:26.640 --> 0:21:28.880 you have to at some point say I am done 0:21:28.960 --> 0:21:32.000 researching now, or I will never And I talked to you, 0:21:32.000 --> 0:21:34.000 you know, young writers all the time who are like, 0:21:34.160 --> 0:21:35.720 you know, and I'm still reading this and this. I'm like, 0:21:35.880 --> 0:21:38.359 you're done, put the book down, do your work, because 0:21:38.359 --> 0:21:41.200 someone's already written the book that you're reading, Like. 0:21:41.920 --> 0:21:44.600 You know, I don't know. It was it was a 0:21:44.640 --> 0:21:46.240 lot of fun. We got to read books. 0:21:46.280 --> 0:21:49.159 We always want, you know, watch during COVID, we watched 0:21:49.160 --> 0:21:51.880 all the movies, you know, we read all the comics, 0:21:52.160 --> 0:21:57.280 but some academic texts were really essential. Working with researchers 0:21:57.280 --> 0:22:00.720 and of course our art team uh Are production signer 0:22:00.720 --> 0:22:03.800 Toby Wilson. These are all people who love getting it 0:22:03.880 --> 0:22:06.359 right and making it beautiful, so they would just you know, 0:22:06.720 --> 0:22:08.520 we would put things in there and they would come 0:22:08.560 --> 0:22:10.280