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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg Markets Podcast. I'm Paul Sweeney alongside

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Speaker 1: my co host Matt Miller.

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Speaker 2: Every business day we bring you interviews from CEOs, market pros,

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Speaker 2: and Bloomberg experts, along with essential market moven news.

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Speaker 1: Find the Bloomberg Markets podcast called Apple Podcasts or wherever

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Speaker 1: you listen to podcasts, and at Bloomberg dot com slash podcast.

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Speaker 1: Daniel de martinoz Booth Joints and she's the CEO in

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Speaker 1: chief Strategistic QI Research. Danielle The market likes with your

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Speaker 1: fed Chairman j Powell had to say, shoulday, what's your takeaway?

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Speaker 3: Well, he didn't say much, Okay, I mean at the

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Speaker 3: beginning he.

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Speaker 4: Kind of read a lot of his answers.

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Speaker 3: I'm like, dude, you're still reading your your statements over

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Speaker 3: quit reading already.

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Speaker 2: I thought that was weird. I honestly, I listened. I

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Speaker 2: was on Comfort Radio, and I thought it was awkward.

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Speaker 2: Why isn't this guy like taking a stand one way

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Speaker 2: or the other one? Why even bother having the if

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Speaker 2: you're not going to.

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Speaker 3: Say at the dot plot, oh it's meaningless. You know,

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Speaker 3: we've got all these employment reports and CPI reports before

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Speaker 3: we get to December twelfth and thirteen, So disregard that.

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Speaker 4: I mean, it was it was I'm like, dude, do

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Speaker 4: you know you're talking out loud?

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Speaker 3: You're like on TV TV, right, yeah, I mean this, dude,

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Speaker 3: And I think what was disappointing was that so many

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Speaker 3: of the reporters asked the same regurgitated question we reworded

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Speaker 3: over and over and abotton. I can somebody please take

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Speaker 3: off the gag order and let somebody ask him about

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Speaker 3: the balance sheet already?

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Speaker 5: All right, tell us about the balance sheet. What would

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Speaker 5: you like about the balance sheet?

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Speaker 3: Well, I mean, gosh, you've seen other deposits, liabilities. My mentor,

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Speaker 3: doctor Lacey Hunt, you always I follow them every single week.

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Speaker 3: We're about to break underneath fifteen trillion.

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Speaker 4: When the data hit tomorrow afternoon.

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Speaker 2: Wait, what do you say about Lacy Hunt from Hooisington, Right.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, he's my mentor.

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Speaker 2: Oh so he's taught me how.

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Speaker 3: I mean, every single week the Fed's data comes out

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Speaker 3: and it shows you weekly liquidity on bank balance sheets,

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Speaker 3: and you've gone from just about seventeen trillion to next

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Speaker 3: week tomorrow afternoon, you're going to break fifteen trillion. You've

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Speaker 3: had two trillion dollars of liquidity sucked out of the

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Speaker 3: system because there's like a one point five multiple on

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Speaker 3: every dollar of quantity of tightening shows up as one

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Speaker 3: point five dollars of liquidity pulling being pulled out of

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Speaker 3: the system, which is why your bcy go functions on fire.

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Speaker 2: Okay, you've lost me and Paul already. I'm gonna say

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Speaker 2: you see why I go.

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Speaker 3: That's your bankruptcy function. Look, it's companies rely on liquidity,

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Speaker 3: and right now we're seeing banks continue to tighten lending standards.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I'll be up and ready on Monday morning

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Speaker 3: for the Senior Loan Officer survey, but the Dallas Fed

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Speaker 3: has a more frequent lending survey, and it's just got

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Speaker 3: getting tighter and tighter and tighter. Everything we heard from

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Speaker 3: Capital One ally they're seeing normalization in defaults and credit

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Speaker 3: card delinquencies and auto default.

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Speaker 2: Wait, you said normalization doing air quotes.

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Speaker 3: Normalization air quotes, that means that means it's going above subprime.

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Speaker 3: So it's not contained to subprimes. I love to quote pernanky,

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Speaker 3: but it's not contained a subprime. And that's what we're seeing.

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Speaker 4: We've seen about a twelve and.

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Speaker 3: A half fold increase of prime all loans being downgraded

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Speaker 3: into subprime territory based on where they're trading right now

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Speaker 3: on bank balance sheets. We've never seen anything like this,

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Speaker 3: and it's because when you put the rent on hold,

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Speaker 3: the auto payment on hold, when you paid people twenty

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Speaker 3: five hundred dollars extra a month, when you put the

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Speaker 3: mortgages on, everything went on hold.

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Speaker 4: So we saw and Moody's has done some good work

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Speaker 4: on this.

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Speaker 3: We saw insane levels of Fico's score inflation during the

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Speaker 3: pandemic and now it's all coming back to bite because

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Speaker 3: weges just aren't there and layoffs. You've got continuing jobless

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Speaker 3: claims up six weeks in a row north of one

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Speaker 3: point eight. They're just on top of where they were

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Speaker 3: in twenty sixteen.

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Speaker 1: So is your biggest concern that the consumer is not

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Speaker 1: nearly as strong as maybe we think it is.

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Speaker 3: Oh, I think the consumers telling you they're not as strong.

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Speaker 3: I mean, if you looked inside of the final University

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Speaker 3: of Michigan consumer sentiment print at the medium tersile and

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Speaker 3: top tersile of earners, they're like, job cuts are coming,

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Speaker 3: and it's the lowest tersile that doesn't see it. Coming,

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Speaker 3: but we're seeing it come out in the data week

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Speaker 3: after week after week. I was I was talking to

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Speaker 3: Daily Jobcuts dot Com, the founder, and he's like, November

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Speaker 3: seasonally a quiet time. People don't fire people into Thanksgiving

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Speaker 3: and in the holidays, and he's like, it's out.

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Speaker 4: They've come out of the gate. He seemed to twenty

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Speaker 4: five companies close in two days.

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Speaker 2: This is the Austrian hangover coming after all of that

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Speaker 2: insane stimulus stimulus, it's still going on. Remember that Canes

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Speaker 2: versus High k Rap video. Look, I mean crisis you've got.

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Speaker 3: You've got some people are going to be paying their

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Speaker 3: mortgage for the first time in December. That's how long

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Speaker 3: FHA Forbearance has been going since March of twenty two.

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Speaker 2: All Right, I got a listener question here writing in,

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Speaker 2: did Danielle listen to the Drunken Miller interview with Paul

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Speaker 2: Tudor Jones? Stan thinks rates are going higher because of

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Speaker 2: an out of control debt profile of the US. Do

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Speaker 2: you agree?

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Speaker 4: I don't, No, I don't.

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Speaker 3: I mean, we've been spending like drunken sailors since Reagan

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Speaker 3: was in office. It's just I think Wall Street wants

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Speaker 3: a narrative right now.

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Speaker 2: But you know, Reagan boosted spending on the military. We

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Speaker 2: were talking yesterday to Paul's mentor, Cam Harvey from Duke,

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Speaker 2: and he pointed out that next year we're gonna have

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Speaker 2: interest payment costs of nine hundred billion dollars. We're gonna

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Speaker 2: pay more to service our debt than we do to

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Speaker 2: fund the military.

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Speaker 5: Yep.

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Speaker 3: Actually we passed that up in the at the end

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Speaker 3: of the fiscal year, about six hundred and eighty five

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Speaker 3: billion for military, eight hundred and eight billion fiscal year

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Speaker 3: ended August thirty one interest payments. So we've already we've

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Speaker 3: already rounded that. And I the shame about the fiscal

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Speaker 3: spending right now is it's.

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Speaker 4: Not doing much.

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Speaker 3: There's it's not creating anything. Like there's no Hoover Dam,

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Speaker 3: there's no Holland Tunnel.

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Speaker 2: There's so little way.

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Speaker 1: They're working like crazy out there, the people out in Jersey, right,

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Speaker 1: John Tucker, they were building that Oh.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, number those gigantic cranes by the Gateway project.

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Speaker 4: Question, I stand correct, Hey we're building a tunnel.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it'll be ready.

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Speaker 4: I'm I'm always on the bridges going to LaGuardia.

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Speaker 5: Sorry, exactly, So is recession in your scenario? In your I.

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Speaker 4: Think I think recession starts the current quarter.

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Speaker 5: Okay, this quarter Q four.

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Speaker 3: As of this morning's jobless claims data, the only state

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Speaker 3: holdout right now that does not have rising continuing jobless

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Speaker 3: claims year over here is Kentucky.

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Speaker 4: Well, I mean Florida, but that's that's a base effect

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Speaker 4: from Hurricane Ian. So that's gonna go away here. But

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Speaker 4: that's it.

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Speaker 3: I mean September twenty twenty two, there were zero states

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Speaker 3: with rising continuing jobless claims.

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Speaker 4: Now we got fifty.

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Speaker 5: Okay, so you have a recession in your outlook?

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Speaker 2: How deep?

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Speaker 5: How long?

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Speaker 3: I think it's gonna last longer than we think because

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Speaker 3: we've pulled so much demand forward. We're seeing one furniture

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Speaker 3: company after another go out of business that had been

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Speaker 3: in business for one hundred years because we pulled so

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Speaker 3: much demand forward with all that stimulus money.

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Speaker 2: All Right, that's the hangover, dude.

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Speaker 4: It is a hangover, yes, but it's not as funny

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Speaker 4: as the movie.

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Speaker 2: So so should the Fed?

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Speaker 5: What should the Fed do here?

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Speaker 3: I think I think the Fed's on hold, I really do.

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Speaker 3: But again, it's about the balance sheet. Nobody's talking about Voldemort.

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Speaker 4: I'm saying it out loud. It's about the balance sheet, people,

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Speaker 4: It's real.

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Speaker 2: The worry. The worry is that the Fed went too

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Speaker 2: far right because, like Cam said, if you take out

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Speaker 2: whatever they call it, rent equivalent, inflation is below two percent.

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Speaker 2: And our buddy j Hatfield from Infrastructure Capital a smart one.

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Speaker 2: He's got his CPI dash R where they replace the

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Speaker 2: housing component with ky Schiller and that's one point three

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Speaker 2: percent year over year compared to the four point Everything's

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Speaker 2: great in Dallas, right.

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Speaker 3: Well, no, Actually, war notices in the state of Textas

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Speaker 3: have gone through the roof. That's what's hard to believe.

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Speaker 3: And it's no longer like super cheap to live there.

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Speaker 3: So I mean, Austin's a cesspool of when it comes,

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Speaker 3: it's it's residential real estate ground zero.

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Speaker 2: It's a mess again.

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Speaker 3: And I'm a longhorn, and I mean, I love, I

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Speaker 3: love Austin, but they overbuilt.

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Speaker 5: They overbuilt, and there's and they don't have any infrastructure for.

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Speaker 2: The true but they have limescooters. That's all I care about.

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Speaker 1: Burn Martino, CEO and chief strategist Research.

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Speaker 7: You're listening to the Team Ken's Are Live program Bloomberg

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Speaker 7: Markets weekdays at ten am eastering on Bloomberg dot com,

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Speaker 7: the iHeartRadio app and the Bloomberg Business app, or listen

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Speaker 7: on demand wherever you get your podcasts.

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Speaker 1: A little bit of a M and a trade in

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Speaker 1: the theme park business, Cedar Fair, six Flags, they're getting

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Speaker 1: together all Stock merger.

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Speaker 5: Let's break down a little bit.

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Speaker 2: We can do that with Jody Laura.

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Speaker 1: She covers the entertainment companies for Bloomberg Intelligence from the

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Speaker 1: credit side. So, Jody, thanks so much for joining us here. Boy,

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Speaker 1: I'm looking at the balance sheets of these two companies.

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Speaker 5: They're almost the.

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Speaker 1: Exact same two and a half billion dollars of debt,

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Speaker 1: about five hundred million of ibadas, so they're both levered

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Speaker 1: pretty highly around five times leverage. Here from your perspective,

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Speaker 1: what's the rational for putting these two companies together?

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Speaker 8: Fuir So, Paul, I mean, I think I think that's

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Speaker 8: a great question. Is that really at the end of

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Speaker 8: the day, why are these companies joining? And I think

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Speaker 8: it really comes down to the fact that the tailwinds

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Speaker 8: that they experienced during the pandemic have sort of petered off,

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Speaker 8: and now they're saying what's next for these companies, they've

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Speaker 8: experienced tremendous weather related issues this year.

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Speaker 9: That have sort of marred their opportunity and.

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Speaker 8: Benefiting from people spending on leisure.

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Speaker 2: Too hot, Yeah.

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Speaker 8: Well, so subplace was too hot, others it was too rainy.

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Speaker 8: It was just you know, a mix of storms and

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Speaker 8: events that have happened. I mean, you look in the

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Speaker 8: southern California area and it was too hot and then

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Speaker 8: there were floods, and then it was rainy, and it's

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Speaker 8: just I mean, each of their calls, other than this

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Speaker 8: one today, which obviously was just focused on the m

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Speaker 8: and a transaction, but the past two quarters, that was

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Speaker 8: sort of the explanation behind it was we didn't do

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Speaker 8: well or as well as expected, and we didn't get

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Speaker 8: as much season pass buyers because of the effects of weather.

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Speaker 8: And I don't I know if that's necessarily going to

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Speaker 8: go away, but I think what they're hoping is the

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Speaker 8: expansion of their footprint will sort of diversify them enough

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Speaker 8: to make it so that weather isn't as much of

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Speaker 8: an issue. I don't know if that's necessarily what I'd

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Speaker 8: hang my hat on, but that's certainly their argument.

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Speaker 1: Got Disney. You look at Disney there love their theme

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Speaker 1: park business. Comcast loves its universal theme park business. They're

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Speaker 1: both of those companies are increasing dramatically. They're capital spending

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Speaker 1: in those businesses. Is that just a benefit of scale

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Speaker 1: and that six Flags and Sedar don't enjoy that same

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Speaker 1: kind of scale, so this is one way to get there?

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Speaker 9: Well, I would say.

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Speaker 8: That they definitely have a lot of scale, particularly six Flags.

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Speaker 9: Maybe even some would argue too much scale. It's a

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Speaker 9: different business model.

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Speaker 8: When you're dealing with regional versus very focused theme parks. Right,

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Speaker 8: So Disney, like SeaWorld, benefits from having Florida, having Southern California,

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Speaker 8: and so that of course helps them from a cash

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Speaker 8: flow perspective, more consistency because they don't have to shut

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Speaker 8: down for part of the year.

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Speaker 9: For six Flags and Cedar Fair, it's.

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Speaker 8: A little bit more regional. The type of customer is

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Speaker 8: a little bit different. It's not as much destination. They're

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Speaker 8: hoping to shift that a little bit and you're certainly

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Speaker 8: seeing that. You know, Cedar Fair does have hotels at

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Speaker 8: some of their properties, and so I think that the

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Speaker 8: thought process is is that once you're a bit larger,

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Speaker 8: you can more actively have a branding and maybe more

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Speaker 8: of a presence everywhere you go. So if you're a

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Speaker 8: card carrier of a six Flags Great Adventure, you can

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Speaker 8: go to any six Flags. Perhaps maybe maybe that's the play,

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Speaker 8: is that you know a customer can participate in any area.

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Speaker 2: Well, can I ask about the dreaded phrase merger of equals?

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Speaker 5: I think they're.

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Speaker 2: Saying this themselves, like they think it's a good idea

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Speaker 2: to spin that. Daimler Chrysler said the same thing, and

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Speaker 2: it was anything but I mean, what a load of bs?

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Speaker 10: What?

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Speaker 2: What's who's buying? Who's buying whom?

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Speaker 10: Here? Right?

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Speaker 9: So they structured the deal interestingly, So Cedar Fair is.

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Speaker 8: An LP or an MLP specifically, so a limited partnership

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Speaker 8: right now, so they have unit holders.

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Speaker 9: Six Flags is your standard CE corporation.

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Speaker 8: And the way that they structured it is that Cedar

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Speaker 8: Fair will get fifty one point two percent of the

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Speaker 8: new company shares outstanding. And the reason why they did

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Speaker 8: that is I think it sort of helps them to

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Speaker 8: not trigger the change of control provision for bondholders, meaning

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Speaker 8: bond holders can't then put back the bonds at one

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Speaker 8: oh one percent of par and so that of course

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Speaker 8: frees up some cash for the two companies. It makes

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Speaker 8: it a really stock for stock transaction, except for the

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Speaker 8: dividends that Six Flags shareholders get with the closure of

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Speaker 8: the deal. And so I think it's an interesting structure.

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Speaker 8: It makes it a little bit more beneficial for bondholders

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Speaker 8: in some sense, particularly the Six Flags bondholders. We saw

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Speaker 8: the bond's rally today and that's a function of the

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Speaker 8: fact that you know, Cedar Fair does to some extent,

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Speaker 8: they've had better results, at least recently, and their business

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Speaker 8: model has been.

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Speaker 9: A little bit more.

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Speaker 2: Right, well, they have, it's been stronger. They have Cedar Point,

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Speaker 2: which I grew up going to that in Sandusky. They

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Speaker 2: have the Beast. It's King's Island in Cincinnati. When I

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Speaker 2: was a kid. That was the longest, the fastest, the

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Speaker 2: tallest wooden roller coaster in the world. Jody, You've got

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Speaker 2: I'm guessing, uh, real amusement park experience.

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Speaker 5: What are the.

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Speaker 2: Best rides out there? What are the rides that the

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Speaker 2: roller coaster freaks are psyched about?

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Speaker 9: Well, there are quite a few.

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Speaker 8: It's funny because I have this conversation a lot with

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Speaker 8: I'm gonna name job Ira Jersey, who sits in my

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Speaker 8: little Hubble in Princeton. His his son is a roller

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Speaker 8: coaster enthusiast, so we're constantly trading discussions about all the

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Speaker 8: different roller coasters out there, so which ones are the best?

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Speaker 9: I mean, I'm a traditionalist.

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Speaker 8: I still I grew up well, you know, grew up

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Speaker 8: relative once it finally came out the Batman, the original

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Speaker 8: Batman ride not you know, that was in Great Adventure.

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Speaker 8: I just always have a soft spot for that, as

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Speaker 8: well as for Steel Force, which is at Dorney Park.

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Speaker 9: And so, I mean those are just rides.

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Speaker 8: That I always went to just because it was a

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Speaker 8: regional sort of feel that said. I mean, you know,

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Speaker 8: Disney obviously has its.

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Speaker 2: Own sort of space mountain right.

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Speaker 8: Well, they have Guardians with the Galaxy Now, which was

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Speaker 8: certainly an intense ride, definitely different. I mean from an

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Speaker 8: innovation standpoint, they certainly do a different sort of innovation

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Speaker 8: than what you see at the three regional guys.

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Speaker 5: All right, Jerdi, thanks so much for joining us. Appreciate it.

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Speaker 1: Jody Lorii credit analysts Bloomberg Intelligence breaking down this Cedar

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Speaker 1: Fair and six Flags a deal that it's a merger

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Speaker 1: of vehicles is what they're calling it. But trying to

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Speaker 1: get a little bit of scale in that theme park business.

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Speaker 7: You're listening to the tape Cat's are Line program M

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Speaker 7: Bloomberg Markets weekdays at ten am Eastern on Bloomberg Radio,

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Speaker 7: the tune in app, Bloomberg dot Com.

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Speaker 10: And the Bloomberg Business App.

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Speaker 7: You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our

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Speaker 7: flagship New York station, Just say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven

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Speaker 7: thirty Darkening door.

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Speaker 5: Here is Doug Adams.

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Speaker 1: He's a global cohead of ECM, that would be Equity

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Speaker 1: capital Markets at Citybank, one of my former places of employee.

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Speaker 1: I used to run the street with Tyler Dixon.

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Speaker 5: We were due deals.

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Speaker 1: One day he called me out and says, hey, I

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Speaker 1: just took down a bunch of this clear channel stock.

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Speaker 1: Can you tell me what the radio bis how where

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Speaker 1: radio company works? I was like, what I mean, that's

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Speaker 1: the kind of risk we would take back in the day.

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Speaker 1: Maybe stupid risk, but anyway, Doug Adams does a I'm

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Speaker 1: sure a better job than Tyler.

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Speaker 2: Doug.

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Speaker 5: Thanks so much for joining us here, appreciate it.

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Speaker 1: Talk to us about the equity capital markets these days.

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Speaker 5: It's tough market, tough geopolitical issues.

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Speaker 1: I'm sure the companies don't have a lot of confidence

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Speaker 1: maybe in their forecasts or kind of just even the

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Speaker 1: next couple of quarters. What are the kind of conversations

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Speaker 1: you have with clients these days about their capital structure?

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Speaker 11: Now, I appreciate the opportunity to share our thoughts with you,

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Speaker 11: and you're right, it's a complicated market right now. We're

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Speaker 11: dealing with a number of issues globally and there's a

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Speaker 11: lot of uncertainty, and so clients are trying to manage

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Speaker 11: their balance sheets, trying to manage their forecasts through that time.

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Speaker 11: I do think we are expecting there to be some

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Speaker 11: capital raising come in. There are companies that need to

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Speaker 11: raise capital over the coming weeks and months. But you know,

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Speaker 11: as far as the IPO market, I think what we've

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Speaker 11: seen in the performance, and we were just talking about it,

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Speaker 11: some of the aftermarket performance hasn't been as strong as

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Speaker 11: folks that expected or anticipated, and so in reality, we're

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Speaker 11: probably waiting until twenty twenty four until we start to

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Speaker 11: see a bigger pipeline of newly issued public IPOs.

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Speaker 2: So does that mean it's going to twenty twenty four

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Speaker 2: is going to be a better year than twenty twenty

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Speaker 2: three for i POS.

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Speaker 11: That's certainly what we're hoping at this point.

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Speaker 10: I mean, it's been a what.

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Speaker 2: If we fall into a recession, is it still does

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Speaker 2: it still look like it could be a good year

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Speaker 2: for i pos.

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Speaker 11: There are a lot of companies lining up, and a

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Speaker 11: lot of them have secular growth as opposed to being

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Speaker 11: exposed to cyclical aspects in their business. The one thing

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Speaker 11: that we have seen and we're tracking, you know, over

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Speaker 11: a thousand companies privately private companies right now, and you know,

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Speaker 11: there's a lot of really interesting, really exciting companies. The

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Speaker 11: real question is when is the right time for them

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Speaker 11: to go public. When are they going to get the

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Speaker 11: reception both at the IPO but importantly are they going

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Speaker 11: to see the aftermarket performance? And that's been the biggest

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Speaker 11: struggle of the recent vintage.

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Speaker 1: You know, I've some of the deals that came public

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Speaker 1: Doug after the Labor Day had what they called marquee investors.

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Speaker 5: I'm not sure what the term is. I never had

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Speaker 5: them in my deals.

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Speaker 1: I just whatever that top application was. I gave Fiddel

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Speaker 1: like twice that amount and I'm done. What are these

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Speaker 1: marquey investors? How does that come into it is that important.

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Speaker 11: Yeah, we refer to them today as kind of corner

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Speaker 11: service as investors. And you know, part of it is

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Speaker 11: in a market that's reopening like we're going through. Part

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Speaker 11: of it is how do I de risk de risk

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Speaker 11: a transaction? And so those investors act in two things.

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Speaker 11: One is they take some of the potential supply and

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Speaker 11: the second thing that they do is provide a validation

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Speaker 11: for investors and give them confidence other a broader group

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Speaker 11: of investors that people have done more work, they've met

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Speaker 11: the company privately early on, and they're willing to go

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Speaker 11: on the cover of perspectives, and so that provides greater

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Speaker 11: validation in the market.

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Speaker 1: So what's the you know, where are we in terms

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Speaker 1: of the private equity business and the private credit business

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Speaker 1: Because it seems like companies can stay private a lot longer.

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Speaker 5: There's so many sources of capital for them.

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Speaker 1: They don't need maybe to go public as much as

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Speaker 1: maybe they did prior.

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Speaker 5: Where are we in that continuum these days?

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Speaker 11: And so at say, we run our public and private

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Speaker 11: capital raising all through our group in equity capital market,

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Speaker 11: and we are seeing that convergence, right, And so investors

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Speaker 11: or companies are thinking about what do I raise capital?

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Speaker 11: What are the alternatives in the private market? What are

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Speaker 11: the alternatives in the public market? And how do I

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Speaker 11: think about that? And you're right, you know, they are

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Speaker 11: more alternatives today in the private market, But that's not

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Speaker 11: a perfect market today either, as we've seen. I think

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Speaker 11: that the real question for companies is is their strategic

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Speaker 11: value in being public?

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Speaker 10: And what's the value?

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Speaker 11: It helps in retention of employees, it helps that it's

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Speaker 11: an acquisition currency, and for many companies it helps from event,

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Speaker 11: branding event for them. And so there are different reasons

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Speaker 11: to go public than just raising the capital.

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Speaker 2: At the time of the IPO, I mean, how much

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Speaker 2: have you when you're looking at your employees right in

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Speaker 2: your group, have you seen a shift from the amount

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Speaker 2: of women and men you hire to take companies public

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Speaker 2: and the amount of women and men you hire to

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Speaker 2: give them money on the private side. I mean, you've

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Speaker 2: been at city since like Nirvana, right, so yeah, the band.

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Speaker 2: You've been at a city since the early nineties, right.

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Speaker 10: Have.

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Speaker 11: You know in terms of where people are spending their time.

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Speaker 11: You know, we've asked our team to really focus on

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Speaker 11: understanding what companies needs are and then thinking about the

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Speaker 11: public market solutions as well as private market solution, and

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Speaker 11: so the teams are versatile to be able to talk

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Speaker 11: to clients about the different alternatives that exist. And that's

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Speaker 11: one of the things that we've been really focused on

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Speaker 11: is understanding the client and coming up with solutions at

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Speaker 11: best at their needs.

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Speaker 1: You know, in the private I know source of IPOs

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Speaker 1: across the street of private private financed private equity finance companies,

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Speaker 1: and you always are talking to your private equity clients

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Speaker 1: about kind of what their needs are. There haven't been

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Speaker 1: a lot of IPO activity for several years now. I

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Speaker 1: would think the backlog from the big private equity companies

441
00:20:44,680 --> 00:20:47,040
Speaker 1: like guys, you give me a five minute window. I

442
00:20:47,040 --> 00:20:48,600
Speaker 1: got to get some stuff out the door because I

443
00:20:48,640 --> 00:20:51,240
Speaker 1: need some monetizations, I need to mark these things. I

444
00:20:51,280 --> 00:20:54,119
Speaker 1: need some gains to show my LPs. Where is the

445
00:20:54,160 --> 00:20:56,880
Speaker 1: backlog you know out there on the street these days.

446
00:20:56,760 --> 00:21:01,280
Speaker 11: I think the there's no question private equity firm are

447
00:21:01,560 --> 00:21:04,679
Speaker 11: evaluating their portfolio companies and trying to decide which are

448
00:21:04,680 --> 00:21:07,240
Speaker 11: the right ones to exit in the public market and

449
00:21:07,240 --> 00:21:09,480
Speaker 11: which are the right companies to exit in the private market,

450
00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:11,439
Speaker 11: and they do that all the time. I think with

451
00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:14,760
Speaker 11: a better functioning leverage finance market. One of the things

452
00:21:14,760 --> 00:21:17,040
Speaker 11: that has happened is that the notion of a dual

453
00:21:17,080 --> 00:21:22,360
Speaker 11: track process has become back in viable alternatives for companies

454
00:21:22,480 --> 00:21:26,800
Speaker 11: versus just having one alternative. Having multiple alternatives always help

455
00:21:26,880 --> 00:21:29,600
Speaker 11: those sponsors. But you're right, there are under a lot

456
00:21:29,600 --> 00:21:32,240
Speaker 11: of pressure to return capital to their LPs as they

457
00:21:32,320 --> 00:21:33,240
Speaker 11: look to raise the.

458
00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:37,360
Speaker 1: Next exactly, So what what's it used to be back

459
00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:39,320
Speaker 1: in the day, My day, we could take a company

460
00:21:39,440 --> 00:21:44,760
Speaker 1: public with just a thought, you know, an idea. Now

461
00:21:44,800 --> 00:21:47,919
Speaker 1: you have to have revenue, you have to have profits,

462
00:21:48,720 --> 00:21:51,800
Speaker 1: you have to have defendable franchises. It seems tougher and tougher.

463
00:21:52,320 --> 00:21:54,720
Speaker 1: Where are you where's the market now? In terms of

464
00:21:54,680 --> 00:21:56,240
Speaker 1: I wanted to bring my company public?

465
00:21:56,400 --> 00:21:57,040
Speaker 5: What would you tell me?

466
00:21:57,200 --> 00:22:00,439
Speaker 11: I'd have to have we focus on company that are

467
00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:03,560
Speaker 11: either profitable or a clear path to profitability in the

468
00:22:03,600 --> 00:22:06,639
Speaker 11: near term. And that's what investors want. When we're in

469
00:22:06,720 --> 00:22:09,359
Speaker 11: a market that's reopening, you have to really open the

470
00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:13,080
Speaker 11: market with the highest quality companies. Rebuild the confidence. That's

471
00:22:13,119 --> 00:22:16,679
Speaker 11: been challenge over the last twenty four months. You know,

472
00:22:16,720 --> 00:22:18,920
Speaker 11: one of the things going back to twenty twenty one.

473
00:22:19,040 --> 00:22:22,000
Speaker 11: You know, we prior to twenty twenty one or twenty

474
00:22:22,040 --> 00:22:24,919
Speaker 11: twenty there was an argument that companies are staying private

475
00:22:24,960 --> 00:22:27,800
Speaker 11: too long, and in twenty twenty one everyone said companies

476
00:22:27,800 --> 00:22:30,879
Speaker 11: are going public too early. And so finding that right balance,

477
00:22:30,960 --> 00:22:34,080
Speaker 11: especially in a market that's recovering, it's not a straight line.

478
00:22:34,359 --> 00:22:37,720
Speaker 11: And so starting with the strongest companies, rebuilding that confidence

479
00:22:37,760 --> 00:22:41,120
Speaker 11: in the public markets, and then giving options to companies

480
00:22:41,119 --> 00:22:43,639
Speaker 11: in terms of you know, when and how and how

481
00:22:44,160 --> 00:22:46,040
Speaker 11: large to raise capital becomes important.

482
00:22:46,119 --> 00:22:48,400
Speaker 5: Are there any sectors out there that you're seeing more

483
00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:50,359
Speaker 5: or less demand from from your clients?

484
00:22:50,359 --> 00:22:51,080
Speaker 2: Hey, we want.

485
00:22:50,920 --> 00:22:53,720
Speaker 1: More energy, or we want more tech, or you know

486
00:22:54,160 --> 00:22:55,359
Speaker 1: what are you hearing from your clients?

487
00:22:56,040 --> 00:22:59,400
Speaker 11: The clients are focused on growth and quality of company.

488
00:22:59,640 --> 00:23:02,119
Speaker 11: So don't think it's necessarily those.

489
00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:04,520
Speaker 2: Two things didn't used to be the same thing, right,

490
00:23:04,840 --> 00:23:07,680
Speaker 2: growth and quality. And when you say quality you mean

491
00:23:07,800 --> 00:23:09,480
Speaker 2: like free cash flow, right, or.

492
00:23:09,560 --> 00:23:13,280
Speaker 11: We're profitability or path to profitability. People that have built

493
00:23:13,280 --> 00:23:16,520
Speaker 11: a moat around their businesses and are differentiated. There's a

494
00:23:16,560 --> 00:23:20,440
Speaker 11: lot of companies working on really interesting as I mentioned earlier,

495
00:23:20,480 --> 00:23:24,400
Speaker 11: you know, strategies and disrupting traditional industries. But the real

496
00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:28,560
Speaker 11: question is have they proven that they can actually operate

497
00:23:28,560 --> 00:23:30,919
Speaker 11: as a business as opposed to a plan in those

498
00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:34,560
Speaker 11: in those areas. But we're seeing companies in certainly in

499
00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:38,159
Speaker 11: the software space and technology. More broadly, we're seeing companies

500
00:23:38,200 --> 00:23:40,520
Speaker 11: in the consumer space. Healthcare has been one of the

501
00:23:40,560 --> 00:23:43,320
Speaker 11: most active spaces in the capital markets, but we're also

502
00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:48,160
Speaker 11: seeing companies in financial services, real estate and others trying

503
00:23:48,160 --> 00:23:49,840
Speaker 11: to figure out when will be the right time to

504
00:23:49,880 --> 00:23:50,960
Speaker 11: access the public market.

505
00:23:51,720 --> 00:23:54,520
Speaker 1: Are hedge funds where where the hedge funds in terms

506
00:23:54,560 --> 00:23:57,639
Speaker 1: of buyers of IPOs are just new issues? How important

507
00:23:57,640 --> 00:23:59,680
Speaker 1: are they to you know, an underwriutter like city.

508
00:24:00,880 --> 00:24:04,080
Speaker 11: Look all the investors, the active equity investors are important,

509
00:24:04,080 --> 00:24:07,960
Speaker 11: So long only accounts and mutual funds, hedge funds all

510
00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:10,000
Speaker 11: make up kind of the complexion of the investor base.

511
00:24:10,359 --> 00:24:11,760
Speaker 11: And one of the things is we look at the

512
00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:15,640
Speaker 11: IPOs that came post Labor Day. It wasn't a demand issue,

513
00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:18,560
Speaker 11: right Those transactions were multiple times over subscribed.

514
00:24:18,680 --> 00:24:18,840
Speaker 10: You know.

515
00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:21,560
Speaker 11: The challenge has been the aftermarket performance, and part of

516
00:24:21,600 --> 00:24:24,000
Speaker 11: that is goes to whether you're a hedge fund or

517
00:24:24,040 --> 00:24:27,359
Speaker 11: a long only investor, you know, the average or the

518
00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:31,320
Speaker 11: typical active equity investor are trilling their indexes because the

519
00:24:31,320 --> 00:24:33,960
Speaker 11: indexes have been dominated by a small number of stocks,

520
00:24:34,160 --> 00:24:37,640
Speaker 11: and so if the stock isn't performing well, they can't

521
00:24:37,720 --> 00:24:40,359
Speaker 11: chase that in the aftermarket. They have to cut their

522
00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:41,760
Speaker 11: losses rather than suffer.

523
00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:44,400
Speaker 1: Because I kept wondering, because I said, back in my day,

524
00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:46,560
Speaker 1: I know where you're buying here, here, here, how much

525
00:24:46,600 --> 00:24:48,480
Speaker 1: you're buying. So if the stock does fall, I know

526
00:24:48,520 --> 00:24:50,480
Speaker 1: you're coming in to buy more. But it seems like

527
00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:51,280
Speaker 1: we didn't see that this.

528
00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:54,760
Speaker 11: Yeah, I think there's some technical factors and some fundamental factors.

529
00:24:54,920 --> 00:24:57,800
Speaker 11: I think the technical factors is the underperformance by the

530
00:24:57,840 --> 00:25:01,840
Speaker 11: active equity investment in investor relative to their benchmark. And

531
00:25:01,880 --> 00:25:05,200
Speaker 11: the fundamental challenge has been you know that tenure has

532
00:25:05,240 --> 00:25:07,920
Speaker 11: moved pretty significantly since labor Day, so the cost of

533
00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:10,400
Speaker 11: capital for these companies has gone up significantly.

534
00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:11,320
Speaker 5: All right, Doug, great stuff.

535
00:25:11,320 --> 00:25:12,919
Speaker 1: Appreciate you taking a few minutes your time to come

536
00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:14,680
Speaker 1: across the street and talk to us. Doug Adams, he's

537
00:25:14,680 --> 00:25:17,800
Speaker 1: co head Global cohead of ECM four City.

538
00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:22,040
Speaker 7: You're listening to the tape CANSUR Live program Bloomberg Markets

539
00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:25,480
Speaker 7: weekdays at ten am Eastern on Bloomberg Radio, the tune

540
00:25:25,520 --> 00:25:27,320
Speaker 7: in app, Bloomberg dot Com, and the.

541
00:25:27,280 --> 00:25:28,480
Speaker 10: Bloomberg Business App.

542
00:25:28,520 --> 00:25:31,320
Speaker 7: You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our

543
00:25:31,359 --> 00:25:36,400
Speaker 7: flagship New York station, Just say Alexa Play Bloomberg eleven thirty.

544
00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:39,920
Speaker 1: There's a thing met here in the healthcare business called

545
00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:43,359
Speaker 1: Obesity Week. It used to be a quiet annual meeting

546
00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:46,000
Speaker 1: of weight loss specialists and a few farmer reps. But

547
00:25:46,119 --> 00:25:48,560
Speaker 1: over four days in Dallas this month, it became clear

548
00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:51,760
Speaker 1: that the new obesity drugs are changing that along with

549
00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:52,880
Speaker 1: everything else in their path.

550
00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:54,840
Speaker 5: Lisa Jarvis joins us to break it down.

551
00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:58,440
Speaker 1: Lisa is a calumnist with Bloomberg Opinion covering biotech, healthcare,

552
00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:02,080
Speaker 1: and the pharmaceutical biz. Lisa, can you put into perspective

553
00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:06,280
Speaker 1: what these GLP one drugs are? How impactful are they?

554
00:26:06,520 --> 00:26:08,320
Speaker 1: Where are we going with this stuff? Because it came

555
00:26:08,359 --> 00:26:10,720
Speaker 1: out of nowhere and that's all anybody can talk about

556
00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:11,440
Speaker 1: these days.

557
00:26:12,520 --> 00:26:15,080
Speaker 12: Right, Thanks for having me. Well, yeah, they're taking the

558
00:26:15,119 --> 00:26:19,159
Speaker 12: world by storm, that's for sure. They've been used. This

559
00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:21,280
Speaker 12: class of drugs has been used for a long time

560
00:26:21,359 --> 00:26:25,720
Speaker 12: for diabetes, and you know a side effect was weight loss,

561
00:26:25,760 --> 00:26:28,879
Speaker 12: and so they decided to amp that up and you know,

562
00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:31,919
Speaker 12: explore the drugs for use for use, just for weight loss,

563
00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:35,120
Speaker 12: and the difference between what they can do and kind

564
00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:38,760
Speaker 12: of all the older diet pills that existed is best.

565
00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:41,679
Speaker 12: You know, in the past. You know, basically what you

566
00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:44,080
Speaker 12: could expect was at the most about five percent weight

567
00:26:44,119 --> 00:26:46,639
Speaker 12: loss with some of these older diet pills, and it

568
00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:51,840
Speaker 12: was often not sustainable. With Wegovi, which is Nova nerdist

569
00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:54,560
Speaker 12: drug and with Minjaro, which is Lily's drugs still not

570
00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:56,840
Speaker 12: yet approved for weight loss, but expected to be by

571
00:26:56,880 --> 00:26:58,840
Speaker 12: the end of this year. You know, you're looking at

572
00:26:58,840 --> 00:27:01,800
Speaker 12: somewhere between fifteen even up to twenty five percent some

573
00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:04,479
Speaker 12: of the newer drugs that are in the pipeline, you know,

574
00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:07,159
Speaker 12: for segments of the population up to thirty percent of

575
00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:11,640
Speaker 12: their body weight. So it's pretty dramatic and needless to say,

576
00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:15,080
Speaker 12: and it's really taken the world by storm.

577
00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:17,880
Speaker 2: I just want to lose like ten to fifteen percent

578
00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:24,680
Speaker 2: of my body weight. But apparently, sorry, Novo Nordisk has

579
00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:27,920
Speaker 2: put the starter doses on hold because they just can't

580
00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:30,679
Speaker 2: make enough. And we asked the CEO today Lars for

581
00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:32,600
Speaker 2: Regard Jurgensen, you know, what are you going to do

582
00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:35,800
Speaker 2: about the supply. He's so cagy about it. He's like,

583
00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:38,919
Speaker 2: we have a plan, but I can't like tell you

584
00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:43,960
Speaker 2: about it, which is why if you're like boosting capacity

585
00:27:44,280 --> 00:27:46,840
Speaker 2: at factories, or if you're making it in a different country,

586
00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:48,560
Speaker 2: or like, why would you not be able to tell

587
00:27:48,640 --> 00:27:50,280
Speaker 2: us about it. I don't get that.

588
00:27:51,280 --> 00:27:53,720
Speaker 12: Yeah, I mean it's been an ongoing to struggle with

589
00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:56,680
Speaker 12: all of these drugs, the fact that they can't keep

590
00:27:56,760 --> 00:27:59,919
Speaker 12: up with demand. I think the issue is less than

591
00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:02,600
Speaker 12: actual ingredient and then drug itself and more of the

592
00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:06,119
Speaker 12: vials that they put it into. And so they've been

593
00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:09,280
Speaker 12: really you're right cage about it and been really careful

594
00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:11,960
Speaker 12: about allowing new people out of the drugs. The problem is,

595
00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:15,520
Speaker 12: you know, there's this whole gray market of compounding, compounded

596
00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:18,200
Speaker 12: pharmacies that are offering the drugs. So people are starting

597
00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:22,480
Speaker 12: on it, buying it from kind of telehealth places somewhat sketchy,

598
00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:25,720
Speaker 12: I would say. And yeah, I.

599
00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:30,440
Speaker 2: Heard a commercial yesterday on Bloomberg Radio on Serious XM

600
00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:33,359
Speaker 2: Channel one nineteen, and it was for what sounded like

601
00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:36,560
Speaker 2: probably a pretty sketchy place saying like, hey, call us up,

602
00:28:36,600 --> 00:28:40,040
Speaker 2: we can charge this to your insurance trust US, and

603
00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:43,480
Speaker 2: I was thinking, cool, because it's one thousand dollars a month, right,

604
00:28:43,640 --> 00:28:45,920
Speaker 2: can they charge at LISA to my insurance or do

605
00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:46,920
Speaker 2: I have to pay myself.

606
00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:50,560
Speaker 12: Well, that's the thing with these drugs right now. Very

607
00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:53,040
Speaker 12: few people are able to get them covered by insurance,

608
00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:55,840
Speaker 12: you know, because insurers are worried about how much it's

609
00:28:55,880 --> 00:28:58,440
Speaker 12: going to cost in the long term. If everybody goes

610
00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:00,480
Speaker 12: on them, and the idea is that you take them

611
00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:04,280
Speaker 12: for life, and you know, that could be a significant

612
00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:08,360
Speaker 12: burn into most plans given the number of people in

613
00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:11,040
Speaker 12: the US who are of a body weight where they

614
00:29:11,040 --> 00:29:14,960
Speaker 12: would qualify for these drugs. When it comes to the telehealth,

615
00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:18,040
Speaker 12: they're often charging less, probably because they're getting it from

616
00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:21,880
Speaker 12: a different source and you're maybe taking it not in

617
00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:24,920
Speaker 12: the pen form, and maybe you're having to inject the

618
00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:28,000
Speaker 12: drug itself. It wouldn't be something I would recommend. I've

619
00:29:28,040 --> 00:29:31,080
Speaker 12: written another column about that that I think most doctors

620
00:29:31,120 --> 00:29:33,240
Speaker 12: would say, don't do that, just hold off and try

621
00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:35,360
Speaker 12: to try to get it from you know, the real

622
00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:36,280
Speaker 12: deal this is.

623
00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:38,280
Speaker 2: You know, Lars was telling us this morning too, because

624
00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:40,960
Speaker 2: I said, dude, I don't want like, I don't care

625
00:29:41,040 --> 00:29:44,560
Speaker 2: that much about stomach problems. I definitely don't want suicidal thoughts,

626
00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:49,000
Speaker 2: which some reports have said, you know, that's a possibility potential.

627
00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:52,480
Speaker 2: And then I'm terrified of needles, and he said, you

628
00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:55,040
Speaker 2: know a lot of people like to go to the

629
00:29:55,080 --> 00:29:57,360
Speaker 2: doctor once a week and get a shot. Is that

630
00:29:58,240 --> 00:30:00,680
Speaker 2: possibly true? Like I can't even get my couch to

631
00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:02,800
Speaker 2: go to the gym. I'm definitely not going to find

632
00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:03,800
Speaker 2: time to go to the doctor.

633
00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:06,600
Speaker 12: You know, I think so well, you don't have to

634
00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:08,200
Speaker 12: go to the doctor. You do it at home yourself,

635
00:30:08,280 --> 00:30:11,800
Speaker 12: just like you do with if you had diabetes. Because

636
00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:13,960
Speaker 12: the people who are taking ozen Pick instead of we

637
00:30:14,080 --> 00:30:16,800
Speaker 12: go be ozen Pick is the same drug, lower dose

638
00:30:16,920 --> 00:30:20,520
Speaker 12: for diet approof for diabetes. But there's good news for

639
00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:22,440
Speaker 12: you in the sense that there are pills that are

640
00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:26,160
Speaker 12: in the works that you know, could replace the need

641
00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:28,959
Speaker 12: for needles. The weight loss might not be quite as dramatic,

642
00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:32,520
Speaker 12: we don't know yet, but it could still be substantial.

643
00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:34,480
Speaker 12: And some of those pills you might not even need

644
00:30:34,520 --> 00:30:38,840
Speaker 12: to take as often as as the injection. So there's

645
00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:41,240
Speaker 12: a lot of different things that are in development. Because

646
00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:43,760
Speaker 12: obviously at a market that people are pegging at like

647
00:30:43,800 --> 00:30:46,640
Speaker 12: one hundred billion dollars by twenty thirty. Everybody wants to.

648
00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:47,120
Speaker 10: Get on it.

649
00:30:47,560 --> 00:30:51,160
Speaker 1: So, yeah, is there any scenario like I I was

650
00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:52,480
Speaker 1: going to ask you a size of the business, but

651
00:30:52,520 --> 00:30:54,880
Speaker 1: that's that's a big size. Is this always going to

652
00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:57,000
Speaker 1: be or is this expect it to always be a

653
00:30:57,040 --> 00:30:59,920
Speaker 1: prescription type situation or they're being over at the counter

654
00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:01,000
Speaker 1: option at some point.

655
00:31:02,160 --> 00:31:04,480
Speaker 12: I think, I think we're going to stick to a

656
00:31:04,520 --> 00:31:08,080
Speaker 12: prescription for the foreseeable future in the sense that people

657
00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:09,800
Speaker 12: are going to want insurance to pay for it, and

658
00:31:09,960 --> 00:31:13,560
Speaker 12: oftentimes with over the counter that's that's not something that

659
00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:17,440
Speaker 12: insurance always covers. But you know, especially as we start

660
00:31:17,440 --> 00:31:20,320
Speaker 12: to see this drug, more data come out for the

661
00:31:20,360 --> 00:31:23,480
Speaker 12: health outcomes. So you know, we're talking about weight loss,

662
00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:27,960
Speaker 12: but Novo has offered some data showing that taking this

663
00:31:28,040 --> 00:31:30,479
Speaker 12: drug can reduce the risk of heart attacks and strokes

664
00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:32,920
Speaker 12: by twenty percent. That's substantial. There's a lot of other

665
00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:36,240
Speaker 12: trials running trying to show other health benefits, whether that's

666
00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:40,680
Speaker 12: you know, chronic kidney disease, you know NAFH which is

667
00:31:40,720 --> 00:31:45,080
Speaker 12: a NASH which is a fatty liver disease, or even addictions.

668
00:31:45,080 --> 00:31:47,320
Speaker 12: So I think probably we're not going to see it

669
00:31:47,360 --> 00:31:50,880
Speaker 12: over the counter, and the market is just so potentially

670
00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:52,560
Speaker 12: huge as a prescription drug.

671
00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:55,880
Speaker 1: It's kind of odd to think about this to be

672
00:31:56,000 --> 00:31:58,440
Speaker 1: a drug you have to commit to for life. I mean,

673
00:31:58,480 --> 00:32:01,320
Speaker 1: it's one thing if you're doing that for a disease

674
00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:02,440
Speaker 1: or something that you.

675
00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:04,880
Speaker 2: Have to, but this is more on the other hand, Dude,

676
00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:08,400
Speaker 2: I'm committed to like hogen DAWs and Heinekens for life, right,

677
00:32:09,080 --> 00:32:13,960
Speaker 2: And you know, I might even spend less on we

678
00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:17,840
Speaker 2: go Vi Euros Epic if I can. You know, I

679
00:32:18,040 --> 00:32:20,200
Speaker 2: don't know, Like I don't know how much it's gonna

680
00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:26,600
Speaker 2: limit my cravings to drink alcohol, to eat sugary foods,

681
00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:29,719
Speaker 2: to smoke cigarettes. But apparently it helps Lisa with all

682
00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:31,240
Speaker 2: those things.

683
00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:34,120
Speaker 12: It's so far anecdotally at least, it seems to be

684
00:32:34,160 --> 00:32:36,440
Speaker 12: helping with all those and it's now being studied as

685
00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:40,440
Speaker 12: for addiction. So whether that's alcohol, you know, other drugs,

686
00:32:40,840 --> 00:32:43,360
Speaker 12: illicit drugs, or other things. But you know, and you

687
00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:45,400
Speaker 12: can think of sugar in that same way. I've talked

688
00:32:45,440 --> 00:32:47,760
Speaker 12: to a lot of people who are taking these drugs

689
00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:50,920
Speaker 12: and they just most of them say almost instantly, like

690
00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:54,040
Speaker 12: within the first twenty four hours, they feel a change

691
00:32:54,120 --> 00:32:58,040
Speaker 12: in the they're kind of brain signals telling them to eat.

692
00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:01,040
Speaker 12: And so I think some of the concern is more

693
00:33:01,160 --> 00:33:04,640
Speaker 12: about making sure people are getting enough nutrition, to be

694
00:33:04,680 --> 00:33:07,880
Speaker 12: honest with you, because for some people, their diet is

695
00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:10,760
Speaker 12: so depressed that they just aren't they're not craving. They're

696
00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:12,360
Speaker 12: not craving Krispy Creaming anymore.

697
00:33:12,920 --> 00:33:16,200
Speaker 2: That's the the interesting thing is, uh, well a couple things.

698
00:33:17,160 --> 00:33:21,520
Speaker 2: Can this reduce fat only and not reduce muscle mass?

699
00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:25,000
Speaker 2: And then also if people are smoking more weed, are

700
00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:26,800
Speaker 2: they gonna need this to counteract the munchies?

701
00:33:28,520 --> 00:33:31,600
Speaker 12: Well, fair enough, although they might not desire the weed,

702
00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:33,680
Speaker 12: to be honest with you, if they're taking the drug.

703
00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:35,880
Speaker 12: So that's one thing. It's just hard. Everyone has a

704
00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:39,120
Speaker 12: different experience with it. Some people like just lose their

705
00:33:39,200 --> 00:33:45,240
Speaker 12: desire for you know, whatever was their vice. So on

706
00:33:45,320 --> 00:33:50,400
Speaker 12: that news, Yeah, I mean, you know, I think I

707
00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:53,400
Speaker 12: think there's a lot to a lot to we still

708
00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:56,239
Speaker 12: just don't know, you know, about how long people are

709
00:33:56,240 --> 00:34:00,240
Speaker 12: even gonna want to, for example, not enjoy some of

710
00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:02,520
Speaker 12: those things in life. I spoke with some doctors or

711
00:34:02,520 --> 00:34:04,480
Speaker 12: said they have patients who just want to take a

712
00:34:04,520 --> 00:34:07,360
Speaker 12: break because they want to go out to dinner and

713
00:34:07,560 --> 00:34:08,600
Speaker 12: for their birthday and.

714
00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:13,319
Speaker 2: To have their cake and eat it too.

715
00:34:12,040 --> 00:34:14,520
Speaker 12: Or at least pause. But so yeah, so there's sort

716
00:34:14,560 --> 00:34:16,600
Speaker 12: of like a lot of discussion about what how is

717
00:34:16,640 --> 00:34:19,600
Speaker 12: this sustainable in the long term? You take down the dose,

718
00:34:19,640 --> 00:34:23,040
Speaker 12: could you take breaks? You know, how could we think

719
00:34:23,080 --> 00:34:24,880
Speaker 12: about what it looks like in the long term so

720
00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:27,160
Speaker 12: that you can maintain that weight loss. And like you said,

721
00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:29,640
Speaker 12: you know, thinking about the muscle mass too. And I'll

722
00:34:29,640 --> 00:34:32,120
Speaker 12: just note the companies are also looking at ways of

723
00:34:32,160 --> 00:34:35,680
Speaker 12: combining these drugs with drugs that help you sustain your

724
00:34:35,760 --> 00:34:37,279
Speaker 12: muscle mass, so it.

725
00:34:37,320 --> 00:34:39,160
Speaker 1: Could be a whole new I'm gonna let I'm gonna

726
00:34:39,239 --> 00:34:41,000
Speaker 1: let other people take the lead on this. I'm gonna

727
00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:42,800
Speaker 1: be a big time follower at least drivers. Thanks so

728
00:34:42,880 --> 00:34:43,560
Speaker 1: much for joining us.

729
00:34:43,760 --> 00:34:46,880
Speaker 7: You're listening to the tape Can's Are Live program Bloomberg

730
00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:50,520
Speaker 7: Markets weekdays at ten am Eastern on Bloomberg Radio, the

731
00:34:50,600 --> 00:34:52,560
Speaker 7: tune in app, Bloomberg dot Com, and.

732
00:34:52,520 --> 00:34:53,799
Speaker 10: The Bloomberg Business App.

733
00:34:53,880 --> 00:34:56,680
Speaker 7: You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our

734
00:34:56,719 --> 00:35:02,560
Speaker 7: flagship New York station, Just say Alexa, play Blue.

735
00:35:03,239 --> 00:35:04,759
Speaker 5: Let's kind of continue that legal thing.

736
00:35:04,880 --> 00:35:08,719
Speaker 1: Our next guest Nouvelle Gonzalo, founder Gonzalo Law Group. She

737
00:35:08,840 --> 00:35:11,840
Speaker 1: joins us live here in our Bloomberg Interactive Brokers studio,

738
00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:13,560
Speaker 1: or she get.

739
00:35:13,400 --> 00:35:17,680
Speaker 13: Her JD b B Ohio State University, right, the Ohio

740
00:35:17,680 --> 00:35:22,239
Speaker 13: State University in conjunction with Oxford University in England too.

741
00:35:22,280 --> 00:35:23,759
Speaker 4: But yes, I feel like.

742
00:35:23,760 --> 00:35:27,000
Speaker 2: Those two are on the same level as they're excellent.

743
00:35:27,280 --> 00:35:29,480
Speaker 2: They're both excellent university exactly.

744
00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:30,920
Speaker 6: One has a better football.

745
00:35:31,080 --> 00:35:34,040
Speaker 1: One has a better football depending upon how you define

746
00:35:34,040 --> 00:35:37,959
Speaker 1: football throat all. Right, let's talk about Meta first, because

747
00:35:38,560 --> 00:35:41,120
Speaker 1: they have been sued by California and like, I don't know,

748
00:35:41,200 --> 00:35:44,960
Speaker 1: forty seven other states talk about harmful youth marketing.

749
00:35:45,600 --> 00:35:46,040
Speaker 2: What's going?

750
00:35:46,040 --> 00:35:47,960
Speaker 1: I mean the stock nobody cares in the stock sotocks

751
00:35:48,000 --> 00:35:50,520
Speaker 1: of one hundred fifty five percent. From a legal perspective,

752
00:35:50,760 --> 00:35:51,720
Speaker 1: is there anything there?

753
00:35:51,960 --> 00:35:52,160
Speaker 10: Oh?

754
00:35:52,200 --> 00:35:54,960
Speaker 13: My gracious, this is huge. This is an amazing case

755
00:35:55,040 --> 00:35:58,680
Speaker 13: because you were looking at over forty three attorney generals

756
00:35:58,719 --> 00:36:02,319
Speaker 13: from different states that are this case against Meta. And

757
00:36:02,360 --> 00:36:07,840
Speaker 13: we're talking about a platform that owns Facebook, Instagram, Messenger, WhatsApp.

758
00:36:07,880 --> 00:36:10,520
Speaker 13: There's about four billion users worldwide.

759
00:36:10,880 --> 00:36:14,800
Speaker 2: What's that threads Twitter competitor?

760
00:36:14,920 --> 00:36:15,080
Speaker 10: Right?

761
00:36:15,960 --> 00:36:19,000
Speaker 13: Yes, yes, so you know, this is huge and we

762
00:36:19,080 --> 00:36:22,040
Speaker 13: have not seen this type of bipartisan support with forty

763
00:36:22,080 --> 00:36:24,520
Speaker 13: three you know, states going against them. But essentially, what

764
00:36:24,560 --> 00:36:27,520
Speaker 13: the issue is here, this is not only data privacy law,

765
00:36:27,560 --> 00:36:31,120
Speaker 13: but this is data privacy law and children because essentially,

766
00:36:31,120 --> 00:36:34,040
Speaker 13: what the states are arguing is that, hey, you are

767
00:36:34,120 --> 00:36:38,040
Speaker 13: intentionally harming children with how you're handling your platforms, the

768
00:36:38,080 --> 00:36:40,920
Speaker 13: futures that you're putting in place. And there were memos,

769
00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:45,680
Speaker 13: internal memos that were leaked from Meta into the public marketplace,

770
00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:48,440
Speaker 13: and we found out that Meta was aware of the

771
00:36:48,480 --> 00:36:51,719
Speaker 13: harm that some of its futures caused to children. And

772
00:36:51,800 --> 00:36:54,960
Speaker 13: so now the states are in an uprising over this.

773
00:36:55,120 --> 00:36:57,520
Speaker 13: So that's what we're doing. That's what we're watching with

774
00:36:57,600 --> 00:37:00,680
Speaker 13: this case and watching the impact with it. And essentially

775
00:37:00,960 --> 00:37:03,240
Speaker 13: some of the main concerns because you might say, okay, well, look, listen,

776
00:37:03,280 --> 00:37:05,879
Speaker 13: isn't this just business as usual? You know, people want

777
00:37:06,080 --> 00:37:09,560
Speaker 13: companies want to have platforms that their users want to

778
00:37:09,600 --> 00:37:11,920
Speaker 13: be on. They want to make it user friendly, they

779
00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:14,160
Speaker 13: want people to be engaging with it, So how is

780
00:37:14,200 --> 00:37:18,560
Speaker 13: this that different? But the concern here is not just that, Okay,

781
00:37:18,600 --> 00:37:21,239
Speaker 13: we have an engaging platform. People are using it. But

782
00:37:21,320 --> 00:37:24,000
Speaker 13: the concern here is that they have at a platform

783
00:37:24,040 --> 00:37:31,240
Speaker 13: that is specifically geared toward and working to psychologically hook kids.

784
00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:33,120
Speaker 13: And so we say, okay, well, what futures are that?

785
00:37:33,280 --> 00:37:36,160
Speaker 13: I mean, isn't it just kids, you know, online socializing

786
00:37:36,200 --> 00:37:39,799
Speaker 13: with one another. But actually we see the comparison like

787
00:37:39,880 --> 00:37:43,839
Speaker 13: future the filters they say are promoting body dysmorphia and

788
00:37:44,520 --> 00:37:47,759
Speaker 13: eating disorders. They're you know, saying, oh, did you have that?

789
00:37:48,440 --> 00:37:50,759
Speaker 6: No, No, I have none of that. What I'm what

790
00:37:50,840 --> 00:37:53,920
Speaker 6: I'm fascinated by. Look, there's a ton of studies that

791
00:37:53,960 --> 00:37:58,560
Speaker 6: show us that social media is in general toxic, but

792
00:37:58,640 --> 00:38:02,960
Speaker 6: it's especially toxic to children. But so are lots and

793
00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:07,359
Speaker 6: lots of other things. Hey, if are probably regulated for you. Yeah,

794
00:38:07,360 --> 00:38:09,640
Speaker 6: but isn't this something parents are supposed.

795
00:38:09,320 --> 00:38:12,759
Speaker 2: To regulate with their keep I was thinking exactly so.

796
00:38:13,520 --> 00:38:16,640
Speaker 6: And you know, to me, the bigger concern with Meta

797
00:38:16,760 --> 00:38:21,120
Speaker 6: I still call it Facebook is they and Google Google

798
00:38:21,280 --> 00:38:25,560
Speaker 6: just dominate online advertising. It seems like there's a little

799
00:38:25,600 --> 00:38:29,080
Speaker 6: bit of an anti trust question. How are two companies driving,

800
00:38:29,520 --> 00:38:33,760
Speaker 6: you know, the vast majority of ads online. It seems

801
00:38:34,040 --> 00:38:35,279
Speaker 6: there should be some competition.

802
00:38:35,480 --> 00:38:37,640
Speaker 2: It does seem I was gonna ask you, Novelle, is

803
00:38:37,680 --> 00:38:40,480
Speaker 2: this kind of a way in for prosecutors who have

804
00:38:41,200 --> 00:38:46,040
Speaker 2: concerns about monopolistic behaviors but just can't seem to bust

805
00:38:46,080 --> 00:38:47,759
Speaker 2: them on that kind of like you know, when they

806
00:38:47,760 --> 00:38:49,759
Speaker 2: were going after al Capone, they wanted to get him

807
00:38:49,760 --> 00:38:52,879
Speaker 2: for organized crime, and they actually ended up getting him

808
00:38:52,880 --> 00:38:56,759
Speaker 2: on taxi. So I just wonder if they're trying to

809
00:38:58,120 --> 00:38:59,799
Speaker 2: is that way for them to go in the back

810
00:38:59,840 --> 00:39:04,600
Speaker 2: door or and maybe kind of break up or minimize

811
00:39:04,600 --> 00:39:06,879
Speaker 2: a little bit the power of someone like Meta.

812
00:39:06,960 --> 00:39:10,160
Speaker 13: I'd say that it's possible, but it's not likely. And

813
00:39:10,200 --> 00:39:13,800
Speaker 13: that's because they're not asking them to break up their companies.

814
00:39:13,840 --> 00:39:16,960
Speaker 13: They're asking them to regulate how they're obtaining information on

815
00:39:17,040 --> 00:39:20,520
Speaker 13: the users and to really comply with data privacy laws.

816
00:39:20,560 --> 00:39:23,319
Speaker 13: And so that's a different question that we're asking. And

817
00:39:23,360 --> 00:39:26,719
Speaker 13: so when we're saying, okay, you're doing psychological research on

818
00:39:26,840 --> 00:39:29,879
Speaker 13: how to make sure things are engaging for children, how

819
00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:32,240
Speaker 13: to make sure that you're hooking them, you have research

820
00:39:32,280 --> 00:39:35,759
Speaker 13: that shows it's harming them. But then you say, we're

821
00:39:35,800 --> 00:39:38,560
Speaker 13: not doing anything wrong. What's the problem here? This is

822
00:39:38,719 --> 00:39:41,400
Speaker 13: very similar to what we saw with the tobacco companies.

823
00:39:41,440 --> 00:39:43,920
Speaker 13: What we saw with Big Pharma, and so we have

824
00:39:43,960 --> 00:39:45,839
Speaker 13: to look at this really closely. It's not just a

825
00:39:45,840 --> 00:39:49,000
Speaker 13: matter of okay, right, parents need to regulate what the

826
00:39:49,520 --> 00:39:52,840
Speaker 13: students are doing, what the kids are doing. So, but

827
00:39:52,920 --> 00:39:55,800
Speaker 13: if you have the information, you know what to regulate.

828
00:39:55,960 --> 00:39:58,719
Speaker 6: So you lived in Europe for a long time, Yes,

829
00:39:58,760 --> 00:40:02,759
Speaker 6: Europeans seem to take the right to privacy laws much

830
00:40:02,840 --> 00:40:06,240
Speaker 6: more seriously than we do in the United States. Wouldn't

831
00:40:06,480 --> 00:40:08,960
Speaker 6: those sort of things that say, it's my data and

832
00:40:09,040 --> 00:40:13,120
Speaker 6: I can control it, and Facebook or for that matter, Apple, Google,

833
00:40:13,120 --> 00:40:17,720
Speaker 6: Amazon can't be selling and reselling. Isn't that the choke

834
00:40:17,800 --> 00:40:23,000
Speaker 6: point to generate some control over not only how these

835
00:40:23,040 --> 00:40:26,480
Speaker 6: companies affect us, but specifically what we allow them to

836
00:40:26,520 --> 00:40:28,800
Speaker 6: do with our minor children's data.

837
00:40:29,320 --> 00:40:32,080
Speaker 13: Berry That is an excellent question, and I couldn't agree more.

838
00:40:32,440 --> 00:40:34,239
Speaker 13: What we're seeing in the United States is we take

839
00:40:34,280 --> 00:40:37,120
Speaker 13: a lot of our privacy laws from the European model

840
00:40:37,160 --> 00:40:40,520
Speaker 13: with the General Data Protection Regulation or the GDPR, and

841
00:40:40,600 --> 00:40:42,560
Speaker 13: so we're taking our laws a lot from that, or

842
00:40:42,640 --> 00:40:44,960
Speaker 13: kind of adopting our own set, but not as.

843
00:40:44,840 --> 00:40:48,120
Speaker 6: Strict that we seem to be much looser than the European.

844
00:40:47,760 --> 00:40:50,200
Speaker 13: We're by state, so we'll see, you know, each state

845
00:40:50,280 --> 00:40:54,320
Speaker 13: has their own sets of regulations California, Illinois, and so forth,

846
00:40:54,719 --> 00:40:57,440
Speaker 13: but we are looking at how they do things and

847
00:40:57,600 --> 00:41:00,360
Speaker 13: the reality is, yes we have those regulations, Yes we

848
00:41:00,400 --> 00:41:02,880
Speaker 13: have it to protect, but if they're not being followed,

849
00:41:03,120 --> 00:41:05,399
Speaker 13: then that's the problem. And that's what's being alleged here

850
00:41:05,400 --> 00:41:07,480
Speaker 13: that they're violating some of the children's.

851
00:41:07,080 --> 00:41:08,240
Speaker 2: Data protection laws.

852
00:41:08,600 --> 00:41:10,799
Speaker 13: And so if that, I will tell you if they

853
00:41:10,960 --> 00:41:16,320
Speaker 13: violated either the children's Data protection privacy laws or even

854
00:41:16,360 --> 00:41:19,920
Speaker 13: any of our state ones, they absolutely most likely violated

855
00:41:19,960 --> 00:41:23,080
Speaker 13: the global ones, because anytime you have a user from

856
00:41:23,160 --> 00:41:27,080
Speaker 13: the EU any part of Europe, the GDPR comes into effect.

857
00:41:27,360 --> 00:41:29,680
Speaker 13: So I will tell you it's most likely also that

858
00:41:29,760 --> 00:41:33,560
Speaker 13: the EU regulators are watching this case very closely, because

859
00:41:33,600 --> 00:41:35,600
Speaker 13: if they are in fact found to be in violation

860
00:41:35,680 --> 00:41:39,520
Speaker 13: of privacy laws consumer protection laws, then we're also going

861
00:41:39,560 --> 00:41:41,760
Speaker 13: to see probably some issues abroad as well.

862
00:41:41,760 --> 00:41:45,960
Speaker 6: What are the damages if Meta loses the case? What

863
00:41:46,120 --> 00:41:49,480
Speaker 6: sort of options are going to take place? Is this

864
00:41:49,520 --> 00:41:51,960
Speaker 6: going to be them riting a big check or are

865
00:41:51,960 --> 00:41:54,360
Speaker 6: they going to have to change how they do business?

866
00:41:54,760 --> 00:41:57,080
Speaker 13: I think we'll see a variety of things. One of

867
00:41:57,080 --> 00:41:58,759
Speaker 13: the things that ended up coming up is they were

868
00:41:58,800 --> 00:42:02,239
Speaker 13: launching getting ready to launch Instagram Kids. And so Instagram

869
00:42:02,320 --> 00:42:08,920
Speaker 13: Kids was a flatform, a platform for children age thirteen

870
00:42:08,960 --> 00:42:11,759
Speaker 13: and under, and so you're talking about some of the

871
00:42:11,800 --> 00:42:14,840
Speaker 13: most vulnerable parts of our population. Children's minds are not

872
00:42:14,960 --> 00:42:18,640
Speaker 13: even developed yet. And so they did this and they

873
00:42:18,640 --> 00:42:21,560
Speaker 13: were in works with it. Another memo was leaked and

874
00:42:21,600 --> 00:42:25,160
Speaker 13: when that was found out, over forty US states went

875
00:42:25,200 --> 00:42:28,239
Speaker 13: ahead and wrote Mark Zuckerberg and said, listen, please stop it,

876
00:42:28,320 --> 00:42:31,680
Speaker 13: don't do it, don't move forward with it, and they did.

877
00:42:31,719 --> 00:42:34,040
Speaker 13: They paused it. So we might see injunctions here, so

878
00:42:34,120 --> 00:42:36,960
Speaker 13: a pause on work that they're doing or projects that

879
00:42:37,000 --> 00:42:39,560
Speaker 13: are in the works. We might see change in the

880
00:42:39,560 --> 00:42:43,840
Speaker 13: platform and modification. We'll some disclosures, more disclosures because you

881
00:42:43,880 --> 00:42:46,319
Speaker 13: can't which you don't know is out there happening to

882
00:42:46,400 --> 00:42:48,960
Speaker 13: your child. So if you think, oh, what's the harm

883
00:42:49,040 --> 00:42:52,000
Speaker 13: and letting them, you know, have their comparison like Future

884
00:42:52,120 --> 00:42:54,560
Speaker 13: put their filters on. But if you don't know that

885
00:42:54,600 --> 00:42:57,560
Speaker 13: there's research that this harms your child and there's an

886
00:42:57,560 --> 00:42:59,880
Speaker 13: intent or problem, you can't regulate it.

887
00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:01,080
Speaker 2: So you'll see disclosures.

888
00:43:01,120 --> 00:43:02,799
Speaker 5: All right, Noville, thank you, so much for joining us.

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Speaker 1: Novelle Gonzalo, a founder of Gonzalo Law Group, bring us

890
00:43:06,600 --> 00:43:08,759
Speaker 1: up to date on some of the legal challenges out

891
00:43:08,800 --> 00:43:12,759
Speaker 1: there for meta as somebody, anybody in this case, the

892
00:43:12,800 --> 00:43:14,880
Speaker 1: States trying to get a handle on some of the

893
00:43:14,920 --> 00:43:18,040
Speaker 1: content that's being consumed out there, particularly by kids, so

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00:43:18,080 --> 00:43:18,920
Speaker 1: we'll stay on top of that.

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00:43:20,040 --> 00:43:23,120
Speaker 2: Thanks for listening to the Bloomberg Markets podcast. You can

896
00:43:23,160 --> 00:43:26,960
Speaker 2: subscribe and listen to interviews at Apple Podcasts or whatever

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00:43:27,040 --> 00:43:30,760
Speaker 2: podcast platform you prefer. I'm Matt Miller. I'm on Twitter

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00:43:30,960 --> 00:43:34,160
Speaker 2: at Matt Miller nineteen seventy three. And I'm Faull Sweeney.

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Speaker 5: I'm on Twitter at pt Sweeney.

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00:43:35,800 --> 00:43:38,480
Speaker 1: Before the podcast, you can always catch us worldwide at

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00:43:38,520 --> 00:43:39,520
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Radio