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Speaker 1: Oh boy, I'm the podcast man here to deliver pods

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Speaker 1: to your ear cast. Beautiful, beautiful, Thanks David. You know

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Speaker 1: what they say about being a professional is you should

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Speaker 1: never learn how to do even the basic parts of

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Speaker 1: your job at any point and just kind of muddle through.

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Speaker 1: And that is the key to success, right because when

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Speaker 1: you do like a fraction of it, then everybody is like,

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Speaker 1: oh my god, they did it. That's amazing. You keep

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Speaker 1: everybody's expectations, you keep everybody's look exactly. It's like when

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Speaker 1: I'm when I'm um, you know, driving, you know, I'm

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Speaker 1: not gonna use turn signals. I'm not going to turn

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Speaker 1: my headlights on, you know, because that way, when I

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Speaker 1: eventually slam on my brakes and narrowly miss running through

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Speaker 1: a crosswalk, people are like, wow, pretty good guy, he

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Speaker 1: didn't he didn't hit that crosswalk. Didn't hit that crosswalk.

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Speaker 1: Yeah people, Yeah, they're all ready for death there. Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they were like, wow he was he was pretty drunk,

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Speaker 1: but he wasn't so drunk that he blew through that crosswalk.

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Speaker 1: That's that's the way in which I approached my career. Um, David,

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Speaker 1: you have podcasts, You're David Bell this is behind the

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Speaker 1: bastards by the way. Um, but you have a podcast

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Speaker 1: network called game Fully Unemployed where you you talk about

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Speaker 1: movies and in media and stuff. I got a bunch

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Speaker 1: of shows on there, that's true. But I mean I

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Speaker 1: feel like the plug. I think we did it. I

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Speaker 1: think we're all set ready to go. Yeah, I'll plug.

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Speaker 1: I'll plug our patreon, Patreon, dot com, slash gamefully Unemployed.

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Speaker 1: But really just like search for gamefully Unemployed whatever wherever

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Speaker 1: you game podcast, uh and check us out. We have

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Speaker 1: we have a bunch of exclusive ones on our patreon. Uh. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: pop it, yeah it, pull it twisted, tug it is

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Speaker 1: tug one tuget. Absolutely treat it like a nipple. General

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Speaker 1: rule of advice, Burnett, It's like a nipple, Dave. How

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Speaker 1: do you like birds? Um? Lukewarm? Lukewarm on birds? Depends

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Speaker 1: on the bird, to be honest. Um, I like the

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Speaker 1: I like them in theory against them, you know, but

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Speaker 1: again it's really is going to depend on the bird. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I don't have anything against birds. Categorically, I will say

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Speaker 1: the animals I have most often had negative relationships with

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Speaker 1: have been birds, particularly chickens. Yeah. Monstrous creatures, Oh, Yeah.

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Speaker 1: When I was a child, I apparently brought a chicken

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Speaker 1: into my house like holding it, and I still think

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Speaker 1: back at that, like, how did I not get attacked

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Speaker 1: by that chicken? Well, they're bad at that if you

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Speaker 1: if you pick them upright, so would you must have done? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you may be a savant a chicken Savanah. You know

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Speaker 1: much about the Audubon Society. No, okay, Well, today's episode

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Speaker 1: is called John James Audubon Bird Monster, um. And we're

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Speaker 1: gonna talk about the namesake, not the founder, it was

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Speaker 1: founded years and years after his death, um, but the

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Speaker 1: namesake of the Audubon Society. And this guy sucks a

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Speaker 1: lot more than than you would expect, dave a lot

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Speaker 1: more than you would expect. Okay, I mean I don't

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Speaker 1: know who this is. Yeah, you know. The Audbon Society

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Speaker 1: is like people who like birds a bunch, you know,

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Speaker 1: bird watchers. That's their group, is the Audubon Society, Like

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Speaker 1: the n r A is for guns, and the Audubon

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Speaker 1: Societies for people who like going into the woods and

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Speaker 1: being like, look I saw a bird and then telling

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Speaker 1: other people like I found this bird here. That's their

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Speaker 1: whole thing. I think it's just no matter what my

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Speaker 1: view of birds are, I do find bird watchers highly sinister.

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Speaker 1: It is it is. It is unsettling right, like they

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Speaker 1: could be doing anything with those binoculars. You know. It

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Speaker 1: feels like when someone says what are you doing and

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Speaker 1: they say bird watching, that sounds like an you're the FBI,

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Speaker 1: Like we I already know right away you're you're doing

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Speaker 1: some skullduggery, right, because the one thing I do know

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Speaker 1: about birds who they're not fun to watch like that's

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Speaker 1: but there's like a lot of people like to watch birds.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I don't get it. But also I will

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Speaker 1: spend like hours just watching my cats live their lives.

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Speaker 1: So everybody's got animals they like to they like to

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Speaker 1: stare at like a creep. Yeah, and that Autubon society

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Speaker 1: likes to do that with birds, which is fine broadly speaking,

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Speaker 1: not not a bad but the guy they're named after

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Speaker 1: real shitty. So John James Audubon was born gen I

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Speaker 1: Bean like you know French John, like spelled like Jeans

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Speaker 1: but without the S, but not like Sean Luke Jean No,

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Speaker 1: no that one yeah j e a n gene Yeah.

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Speaker 1: In san domain, which is modern Haiti right, Like he's

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Speaker 1: born in what is today Haiti was then the slave colony.

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Speaker 1: That right, Yeah, yeah, I did, I did. I did

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Speaker 1: a video for some it was it's bleak. So he's

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Speaker 1: born seventy five, which is not all that long before

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Speaker 1: well before the cool thing happens, which is like the

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Speaker 1: Haitians Haitian slaves are like, yeah, let's kill everybody who's

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Speaker 1: want slaves to exist. Um, but that's not a great

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Speaker 1: time to be the illegitimate son of a French sea captain. Um,

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Speaker 1: you know, a mixed time and like slave trader. His

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Speaker 1: dad is, who is also named John is a is

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Speaker 1: a slave trader and a sea captain and owns a plantation. Now,

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Speaker 1: depending on who you believe, Jen Rabine's mother is either

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Speaker 1: a sugar plantation owner who died in the slave uprising

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Speaker 1: that led to the creation of Haiti, or a mixed

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Speaker 1: race chambermaid named Katherine Bouffard or a French chambermaid named

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Speaker 1: gen iban Um, which is basically the same as his name.

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Speaker 1: So there's a couple of different theories and and one

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Speaker 1: of them is that he's a mixed he's kid, that

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Speaker 1: he that he has black ancestry um and that's going

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Speaker 1: to become very relevant later because of some of the

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Speaker 1: things this guy chooses to do with his life. Um,

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Speaker 1: whoever his mother was and whether or not he was

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Speaker 1: mixed race, he was born able to pass as white,

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Speaker 1: so if he is, if he is mixed race, he

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Speaker 1: like white people in like the U. S And Europe

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Speaker 1: don't notice that when they look at him, right, which

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Speaker 1: is handy in this period of time. Right, Why why

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Speaker 1: are we not sure who his mother is? Well, because

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Speaker 1: he's he's a legitimate like his dad is a pretty

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Speaker 1: well off guy, and he has a wife back in France,

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Speaker 1: and he's just whoever he has his son with. It's

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Speaker 1: not his wife, you know. Um. It's also the seventeen eighties,

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Speaker 1: so it's not like it's not like if he'd wanted

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Speaker 1: to know who his mom was, he could have gotte

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Speaker 1: and done a DNA test at some point, but there's

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Speaker 1: really not many options. Um, So the most likely cases

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Speaker 1: that his mom was was J. E. A. N N. E.

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Speaker 1: Rabine as opposed to gen Rabine. I'm sorry, they're French,

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Speaker 1: so this this part is going to be kind of confusing. Um.

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Speaker 1: And she died of an infection basically as soon as

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Speaker 1: her baby came into the world, probably as a result

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Speaker 1: of having a baby, not an uncommon story in se

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Speaker 1: um So, James's dad, Geen Audubon, decided to leave the

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Speaker 1: island shortly thereafter. He was not a dumb man, and

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Speaker 1: he saw that tensions in Haiti, and by tensions I

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Speaker 1: mean all of the angry people freeing themselves from plantations

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Speaker 1: and getting weapons were on the rise. Right, So, as

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Speaker 1: a rich white guy looking at Haiti in the late

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Speaker 1: seventeen eighties and like, probably how to get out of here,

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Speaker 1: but probably ain't gonna be. This ain't gonna be good

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Speaker 1: for me anymore. Yeah, they're not gonna be. They're gonna

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Speaker 1: not gonna be nice to him. Yeah, I probably don't

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Speaker 1: want to be hanging around Haiti too much longer. Um So,

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Speaker 1: the rumors that Jean may have been mixed race are

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Speaker 1: mainly significant again for things that come up later. It's

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Speaker 1: worth noting that his father, if he was mixed race,

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Speaker 1: his father may not necessarily have seen this as a

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Speaker 1: big deal. Well, this would have been like a thing

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Speaker 1: in the United States as a time. Again, if you

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Speaker 1: have like one drop of blood that isn't white, and

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Speaker 1: kind of the parlance of the time in the US

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Speaker 1: in this period, it can be a huge issue for you,

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Speaker 1: right if if I remember correctly, Not not to say

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Speaker 1: Haiti is progressive during this time, but like the revolution

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Speaker 1: that happens oh sorry France, yeah, but like also the

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Speaker 1: revolution that happens in Haiti, like they pretend it doesn't happen,

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Speaker 1: right in a lot of places, France does and for

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Speaker 1: a long time that's basically their policy. But within kind

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Speaker 1: of the France itself and and France outside of the

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Speaker 1: islands where they own a lot of slaves. The late

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Speaker 1: seventeen hundreds are a period in which, again you've had

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Speaker 1: this revolution, there's all of these kind of radical ideas

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Speaker 1: about equality. Um it is starting to become normalized for

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Speaker 1: people who are not white to get the rights of

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Speaker 1: citizens in the French Empire. Okay, so there, and there's

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Speaker 1: this period where like there's still slavery, but also people

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Speaker 1: who are mixed race are getting their citizenship. Um. I

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Speaker 1: am thinking of the US because the US it was

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Speaker 1: like they didn't want to talk about what was going

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Speaker 1: on in Haiti because well the French did either, Like

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Speaker 1: again they don't once Haiti rebels, France doesn't really want

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Speaker 1: to acknowledge it. Right, they invaded a couple of times,

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Speaker 1: and the US doesn't want. No one wants to acknowledge

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Speaker 1: it because the idea of a slave rebellion is very

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Speaker 1: frightening to everybody. But you have in the same period,

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Speaker 1: because it's post revolutionary France, all these discussions about well,

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Speaker 1: mixed race people in black people should be citizens to like,

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Speaker 1: if we're gonna say everybody's equal, then these people have

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Speaker 1: to be equal as well. And it's like this process

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Speaker 1: going on. And this not to like whitewash the horrible

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Speaker 1: colonial crimes of the French government, but this process does

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Speaker 1: happen in France, and there are rights for people who

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Speaker 1: are not white but are French citizens in France. That

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Speaker 1: does not happen in the United States for like another

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Speaker 1: seventy years, you know, um, and arguably a lot longer

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Speaker 1: than that, right obviously, um. Whereas in France they do

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Speaker 1: actually start to get functional citizenship. All mixed race Frenchmen

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Speaker 1: received citizenship in sevent ninety too. UM. So the fact

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Speaker 1: that like jeen uh Rabine may have been kind of

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Speaker 1: mixed race would not have been a huge issue growing

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Speaker 1: up in France, as it would have been in the

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Speaker 1: United States. Now his dad does buy a farm in

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Speaker 1: the United States, two four acres outside of Philadelphia. Um.

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Speaker 1: And at this point, again I I normally we would

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Speaker 1: call it something else. It's not Philly yet, you know

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Speaker 1: it's Philadelphia. It's not it's not the gritty city that

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Speaker 1: we we know and love. At this point, UM, I

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Speaker 1: wanted to make a joke about the first sports related

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Speaker 1: riot in US history here, like and that being the

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Speaker 1: thing that made it Philly, because I was gonna be

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Speaker 1: I was pretty sure the four first U s sports

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Speaker 1: riot would have happened in Philadelphia, but I was I

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Speaker 1: was wrong about that. Um yeah there was. Yeah, it

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Speaker 1: was the Johnson Jeffreys riots of nineteen ten. Um. And

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Speaker 1: those happened in a bunch of cities, but not Philadelphia.

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Speaker 1: There's like a shipload of US cities that have riots

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Speaker 1: in nineteen ten over this it's a boxing match. None

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Speaker 1: of them are Philly. Um. And yeah, it's what you'd expect.

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Speaker 1: Jack Johnson becomes the first black world heavyweight champion, and

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Speaker 1: then they so he becomes heavyweight champion, and all the

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Speaker 1: white people in America are really pissed, and so they

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Speaker 1: like find this white boxer to come out of retirement

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Speaker 1: to fight him in nineteen ten. That's um, that's Jeffreys,

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Speaker 1: who they call the Great White Hope. And then he

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Speaker 1: gets his ass kicked. Yes, so there's I mean, it's

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Speaker 1: not I mean there's horrible, horrible race riots where after

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Speaker 1: it's a nightmare. But yes, the basic story is kind

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Speaker 1: of funny. Um. Anyway, this was all because I wanted

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Speaker 1: to make a joke about Philadelphia and sports riots, which

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Speaker 1: wound up not being at all relevant. Uh So, sorry

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Speaker 1: for the digression. But back to Jean. So in his

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Speaker 1: dad takes him away from Haiti, they go to France. Um,

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Speaker 1: and you know, they buy this farm in Philadelphia. It's

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Speaker 1: mainly an investment farm, you know, so that they can

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Speaker 1: make money. So that's kind of where the family money

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Speaker 1: is coming from. While while Jean and his dad and

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Speaker 1: his dad's wife who's not his mom raise him in

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Speaker 1: Nantes in France. Um. And I should say that like

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Speaker 1: his dad's wife, Anne Moynette Audubon, isn't like biologically his mom.

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Speaker 1: I do think she like agrees, she is basically his mom,

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Speaker 1: like she raises him and stuff, So credit to her

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Speaker 1: for that. She seems to not as far as I know,

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Speaker 1: doesn't take out on him the fact that his dad

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Speaker 1: was just sleeping around with whoever the fuck, you know, Haiti,

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Speaker 1: So that maybe maybe they had had a thing, you know,

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Speaker 1: maybe they had a thing. Maybe she's who knows, Um

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Speaker 1: they were French, you know, anything's possible. Uh. Yeah, So

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Speaker 1: Anne was a pretty attentive mother as far as we knew.

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Speaker 1: Jean Jacques, which is what he starts to become known as.

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Speaker 1: So he's born gen Ibane, he starts to be known

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Speaker 1: when they moved to France. They just treat him as

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Speaker 1: their normal son and call him Jean Jacques audubon Um.

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Speaker 1: So that's his name. Now he goes through a couple

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Speaker 1: of names at this point. I know, it's kind of confusing.

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Speaker 1: He is a pretty pampered upbringing. He's able to explore

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Speaker 1: a wide variety of interests. He becomes fascinated by nature

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Speaker 1: and spends long hours hiking through the countryside, drawing increasingly

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Speaker 1: detailed depictions of landscapes and wildlife. And he had a

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Speaker 1: particular fascination with birds. So he just loves hiking and

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Speaker 1: drawing birds. So yeah, Vine, so far fine, Yeah, I mean,

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Speaker 1: hiking is great. Hiking is wonderful being in nature. It's

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Speaker 1: one of those things not enough people get to do anymore.

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Speaker 1: And it really does like it, uh, it like resets you,

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Speaker 1: you know, it balances you. I don't know why you

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Speaker 1: look at a bunch of stupid birds and not, I

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Speaker 1: don't know, get high or something. But like, good for him, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: good for him. He's he's he's he's doing fine. So

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Speaker 1: in eighteen o three, some dude named Napoleon gets all

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Speaker 1: like Empiry and kind of gets into all these fights

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Speaker 1: with basically everybody. You know, he's one of these one

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Speaker 1: of these guys you get every now and then in

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Speaker 1: Europe every eighty years or so. Who's like, you know what,

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Speaker 1: I want to start a fight with everyone, every everybody

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Speaker 1: in Europe? You know what? Yeah, I wanna try. I'm gonna,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna, I'm gonna go for it. I'm just gonna

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Speaker 1: go for it for a little. For a while, he

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Speaker 1: got closer than most. Yeah, it does usually work out

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Speaker 1: for a while. Um So during the period while it's

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Speaker 1: working out, in order to make it keep working out,

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Speaker 1: Napoleon's like, well, I got a conscript people, right, I

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Speaker 1: need more young men to throw a Prussian guns and

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Speaker 1: to eventually leave starving in the snow outside of Moscow. Right,

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Speaker 1: it's as standard as we've all been there, you know

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Speaker 1: where Napoleon is. I can't blame him for it, um.

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Speaker 1: But John's father is like, well, I don't really want

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Speaker 1: my son to die a pointless death in the snow

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Speaker 1: outside of Moscow fighting for a dictator. So I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: just send him to the US. It seems like a

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Speaker 1: better place for him right now. It's a little bit yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's fine. Like I support draft dodging as a general rule,

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Speaker 1: and that's yeah. I can see him looking at his

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Speaker 1: son outside drawn birds. Yeah, he's gonna he's gonna die immediately.

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Speaker 1: He's not gonna do well in this war thing. I've

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Speaker 1: got a sensitive boy here. I'm not really I'm not

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Speaker 1: feeling like the steps of Russia are a good spot

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Speaker 1: for him. So Jean Jack lives on the family farm

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Speaker 1: that you know. He moves to Pennsylvania and he lives

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Speaker 1: on the family farm in mill Grove, Um And he's

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Speaker 1: essentially a child of the aristocracy. Right. His family is

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Speaker 1: not crazy rich, but they're well off, and he does

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Speaker 1: not need to work for a living as a young man,

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Speaker 1: he's like eighteen at this point, and so he takes

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Speaker 1: up hiking and hunting with Gusto. He gets real into

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Speaker 1: hunting when he moves to the US, and he becomes

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Speaker 1: an excellent shot, which is not easy. The guns at

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Speaker 1: the time are not rifled, which is like rifling are

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Speaker 1: these little lines that they have going down the inside

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Speaker 1: of a barrel that makes the bullet spin and it's

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Speaker 1: like with a a football. The spin makes it so straight.

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Speaker 1: They don't know how to do that yet, So shooting

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Speaker 1: stuff is not easy. Um right, It's just like a

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Speaker 1: stupid musket with a ball in it that you have

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Speaker 1: to like take fifteen minutes to load and fires like

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Speaker 1: feet maybe explodes in your face. Suck at this point.

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Speaker 1: And yeah, but he's good with them. So he's he's

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Speaker 1: good with them. I mean, they have enough money for

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Speaker 1: the better guns at the time, so that's probably a factor.

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Speaker 1: So he starts drawing the birds. He starts both shooting

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Speaker 1: and then drawing birds, and he's using a shotgun for this,

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Speaker 1: so it's it's easier to hit. Um. But yeah, so

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Speaker 1: he'll he'll shoot birds and then he'll sketch them, and

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Speaker 1: this becomes like his hobby, which is I don't know

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Speaker 1: that a little creepy, right, I was about to say,

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Speaker 1: that's a bird serial killer Jude Lan road to perdition

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Speaker 1: taking photographs of his kills. It is one of those

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Speaker 1: things because he gets very scientific about it and he

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Speaker 1: has a huge impact on like the development of biology

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Speaker 1: is a science because of what he does here, and

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Speaker 1: it's worth acknowledging that, and it's also worth being like,

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Speaker 1: but this is also like pretty close to stuff we

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Speaker 1: get like serial killers do. He's not torturing them to

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Speaker 1: his credit, like he's not extending their suffering, but having

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Speaker 1: known people with interest in medical stuff. Um, there is

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Speaker 1: a very fine line between a serial killer and a

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Speaker 1: doctor or something who's interested in anatomy or like nature

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Speaker 1: or a biologist, where it's like they're they're kind of

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Speaker 1: doing it's the ven diagram. Yeah, Like there's some similar things.

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Speaker 1: If if his parents had hit him a couple of

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Speaker 1: times more, he probably would have been a lot worse

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Speaker 1: to those birds, and then we might have gotten a

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Speaker 1: real different story. Got a bond, you know, Yeah, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: Like I feel like if Jeffrey Dahmer was doing what

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Speaker 1: he was doing to like monkeys in a labe. We

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Speaker 1: wouldn't have even thought twice about it, well, some of it,

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Speaker 1: because he was off probably probably wouldn't have been okay,

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Speaker 1: although it depends like look, it depends on what kind

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Speaker 1: of lab. If it's like a lab that likes to party, right,

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Speaker 1: if if it's if it's one of those like fucking uh,

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Speaker 1: I don't know enough about colog is to make a

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Speaker 1: good joke here, actually, Arizona State. Oh that's solid. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean we don't know what goes on in those labs.

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Speaker 1: Nobody does. Nobody does break into a lab film them secretly,

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Speaker 1: you know, to see what happens. So white people in

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Speaker 1: this period of time no very little about North American wildlife. Right, Obviously,

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Speaker 1: Indigenous people knew quite a bit about North American wildlife,

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Speaker 1: but white people it's all this gigantic mystery too. So

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Speaker 1: Jean ja Jean Jack decides that he's gonna he's gonna

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Speaker 1: study wildlife a lot more than anyone has before. And

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Speaker 1: one of the things he's curious about he keeps seeing

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Speaker 1: these birds and he notices that, like, oh, these eastern phoebees,

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Speaker 1: which is a type of bird, Like, there's birds here

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Speaker 1: of that type every year at this time, I wonder

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Speaker 1: if they're the same birds, right, because people don't know

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Speaker 1: these white people don't know that, like migration is a

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Speaker 1: thing in detail, right. I think there's people theorizing Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: why because you just see, like who knows if it's

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Speaker 1: the same birds, maybe they all die and then I

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Speaker 1: don't know. There's a bunch of things that are possible.

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Speaker 1: So he's certain marking the Well, that's exactly what he decides.

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Speaker 1: He's like, well, I'm gonna I'm gonna tie strings to

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Speaker 1: the legs of a couple of different examples of this bird.

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Speaker 1: And then if next year any birds with strings on

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Speaker 1: their legs come back, Oh no, it's the same birds,

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Speaker 1: and they're migrating in a set pattern. UM. And this

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Speaker 1: this is what he does, and it works out great,

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Speaker 1: Like they come back the next year and he's like, oh, ship,

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Speaker 1: these are the same birds. You know, I have done

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Speaker 1: a science UM and this is a huge step forward.

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Speaker 1: He's the first person to ever do this, at least

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Speaker 1: that we have any kind of documentation of. UM. And

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Speaker 1: this is a massive like basically all modern like Avian

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Speaker 1: science is pretty much descended from this experiment. UM. It's

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Speaker 1: a big deal. You know, like establishing just like how

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Speaker 1: birds work, kind of for the first time in a

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Speaker 1: systemic way. Let me tell you right now, this guy,

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Speaker 1: he seems to be fine right now, this is so

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Speaker 1: far yeah, learning about birds. He's very curious to know

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Speaker 1: how this goes horribly wrong. Well, it it does. It

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Speaker 1: does because he's a terrible person, but not he's also

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Speaker 1: a terrible person that does a bunch of Broadly speaking,

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Speaker 1: his impact is more positive than negative, although that's quite debatable.

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Speaker 1: We'll see where you how we feel about you know what,

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Speaker 1: we'll have that conversation at how much you give a

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Speaker 1: about birds. But you know who's you know whose impact

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00:20:19,600 --> 00:20:22,080
Speaker 1: on the world is definitely more positive than negative, Dave,

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Speaker 1: it's me. Oh well yeah, for sure. Absolutely well, so

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Speaker 1: far no one's and and you, Dave, are the primary

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00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:35,320
Speaker 1: sponsor of behind the Bastards. So we're gonna we're gonna

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Speaker 1: cut to these ads from companies you own, companies like

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Speaker 1: Hello Fresh and the Washington State Highway patrol um all

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Speaker 1: all the personal property of David Bell. Uh uh, we're back.

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Speaker 1: We're back, and we're having a great time time. Everything's fine,

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00:21:01,119 --> 00:21:06,040
Speaker 1: I'm performing perfectly. So he certainly agrees with that, all right,

385
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Speaker 1: So you know he's doing good. He bands these birds,

386
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Speaker 1: he figures out that migration is a thing. Um. But

387
00:21:13,119 --> 00:21:16,080
Speaker 1: he's also you know, he keeps shooting and drawing birds,

388
00:21:16,119 --> 00:21:19,360
Speaker 1: painting birds, and this time and he's frustrated by something, um,

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00:21:19,400 --> 00:21:23,200
Speaker 1: which is that he would love to like. So there's

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Speaker 1: other naturalists who are like drawing and sketching birds, but

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Speaker 1: like the thing that they have to do is they

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00:21:28,400 --> 00:21:29,960
Speaker 1: have to kill them because you can't you don't have

393
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Speaker 1: a great goggles are like glasses, and it's not easy

394
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Speaker 1: to get a good look at a bird to draw

395
00:21:35,359 --> 00:21:38,720
Speaker 1: it while it's alive. Yeah, I get it. So you

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Speaker 1: shoot it. And then what bird nerds are doing at

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Speaker 1: this period of time is they shoot the birds and

398
00:21:43,960 --> 00:21:47,000
Speaker 1: then they're like preserving their corpses with arsenic and stuffing

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Speaker 1: them with frayed rope and then trying to sketch them.

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Speaker 1: And they don't look great when you do that to him.

401
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Speaker 1: I don't know if you've ever stuff to corpse with ropes,

402
00:21:55,960 --> 00:21:58,080
Speaker 1: but it doesn't quite look like it does what it's alive.

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Speaker 1: Probably not know what bird nerds are called, right, birds? Yeah, yeah, yeah,

404
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Speaker 1: I'm man, Okay, sorry, I'm waiting for you to get

405
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Speaker 1: to the part where he's like, you know what, I

406
00:22:09,119 --> 00:22:14,200
Speaker 1: could also shooting stuff like that's not as far from

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Speaker 1: what winds up happening as but he's not shooting them,

408
00:22:17,440 --> 00:22:20,560
Speaker 1: so I don't know. Um, but yeah, so he's he's

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Speaker 1: he's like, the dead birds here look like shit that

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Speaker 1: I have to sketch from. And that's that's why kind

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00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:30,000
Speaker 1: of all anatomical sketches of birds look like ship like

412
00:22:30,040 --> 00:22:32,720
Speaker 1: they all look gross and like fucked up and not

413
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Speaker 1: like actual birds. Um. So he decides, well, the best thing,

414
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Speaker 1: like what you gotta do is you've got to sketch

415
00:22:39,359 --> 00:22:41,119
Speaker 1: them right away as soon as you shoot them. You

416
00:22:41,160 --> 00:22:44,800
Speaker 1: can't like waste the time to preserve to like preserve them.

417
00:22:44,840 --> 00:22:46,560
Speaker 1: But if you do that, they're just kind of like

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00:22:46,680 --> 00:22:51,159
Speaker 1: limp and flopping around because they're dead. So he builds this,

419
00:22:51,440 --> 00:22:55,800
Speaker 1: oh yeah, he builds what he calls a wire armature

420
00:22:55,920 --> 00:22:59,120
Speaker 1: in order to pose the corpses of birds so that

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00:22:59,160 --> 00:23:01,919
Speaker 1: he can draw the looking like they did before he

422
00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:05,160
Speaker 1: shot them. Amazing, and he does this at age twenty,

423
00:23:05,240 --> 00:23:10,000
Speaker 1: which again very important for biology, leads to the people

424
00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:12,400
Speaker 1: who are like into birds will say to this day

425
00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:17,080
Speaker 1: he's still maybe the best at at drawing avian wildlife

426
00:23:17,080 --> 00:23:19,639
Speaker 1: there's ever been. And again, if you're if you're into

427
00:23:19,680 --> 00:23:23,960
Speaker 1: medical stuff, this isn't that unusual. It's not unusual. And

428
00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:28,359
Speaker 1: he's like, I had a friend who's into survivalism and

429
00:23:28,440 --> 00:23:32,919
Speaker 1: he would do stuff like tan hides. Tanning hides in

430
00:23:32,960 --> 00:23:34,800
Speaker 1: my garage right now, I have a bunch of like

431
00:23:34,880 --> 00:23:39,359
Speaker 1: pieces of animals that i've Yeah, it's still it's what

432
00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:43,359
Speaker 1: you gotta do. But the building an armature to pose

433
00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:45,960
Speaker 1: their corpses to pay it is a little like, Okay,

434
00:23:46,040 --> 00:23:47,760
Speaker 1: so that's where your head goes. Huh, and I guess

435
00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:50,000
Speaker 1: good in this case, it's good. He draws some really

436
00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:53,960
Speaker 1: pretty birds. Um he does this when he's twenty So again,

437
00:23:54,680 --> 00:23:57,600
Speaker 1: you know, that's just where this guy's head is. Um. So,

438
00:23:57,960 --> 00:24:00,720
Speaker 1: he falls in love around the same time a woman

439
00:24:00,840 --> 00:24:05,160
Speaker 1: named Lucy Bakewell, which is like the most fifties wife

440
00:24:05,240 --> 00:24:09,360
Speaker 1: name you could possibly have. It's it's it's incredible. Um

441
00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:11,800
Speaker 1: she's the daughter of an English dude who owned a

442
00:24:11,840 --> 00:24:17,639
Speaker 1: nearby estate called fat land Ford. It's pretty funny. It

443
00:24:17,720 --> 00:24:20,960
Speaker 1: sounds like a dealership. Yeah, it does, sounds like a dealership.

444
00:24:22,119 --> 00:24:25,560
Speaker 1: Um So, before her family moved to North America. She'd

445
00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:27,840
Speaker 1: spent some of her childhood in England, cared for by

446
00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:30,960
Speaker 1: a friend of the family who happened to be Erasimus Darwin,

447
00:24:31,160 --> 00:24:33,919
Speaker 1: the grandfather of Charles Darwin, which does not really have

448
00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:36,000
Speaker 1: much impact on the story. It's just kind of weird

449
00:24:36,040 --> 00:24:40,720
Speaker 1: that there's this connection between Audubon. It's like a cinematic universe. Yeah. Yeah,

450
00:24:40,760 --> 00:24:42,919
Speaker 1: it's the the guys who figured out how to do

451
00:24:43,040 --> 00:24:47,360
Speaker 1: science on animals. Cinematic universe, and Darwin and Audubon will

452
00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:49,960
Speaker 1: have one very specific thing in common, but we're building

453
00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:53,120
Speaker 1: to that. Um So, the Bakewells are a lot wealthier

454
00:24:53,119 --> 00:24:55,359
Speaker 1: than the Audubons, and their family farm featured one of

455
00:24:55,359 --> 00:24:58,680
Speaker 1: the first experiments and steam powered agricultural machines, so they're rich,

456
00:24:58,760 --> 00:25:03,360
Speaker 1: they're into science. Obviously, she falls for for Jehan Jack Audubon,

457
00:25:03,760 --> 00:25:06,760
Speaker 1: who is now going by John James Audubon because he

458
00:25:06,760 --> 00:25:09,760
Speaker 1: he americanizes his name right. I don't want to be

459
00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:12,960
Speaker 1: too French in the United Jean Jack, I think Autoban.

460
00:25:13,720 --> 00:25:16,119
Speaker 1: If your last name is Autobon, I don't think it

461
00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:18,920
Speaker 1: matters what you do with the first part. It's always

462
00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:23,399
Speaker 1: gonna sound like, you know, for European Yeah. Yeah, so

463
00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:25,639
Speaker 1: both families seem to have been pretty happy. When when

464
00:25:25,840 --> 00:25:29,600
Speaker 1: Lucy and and John get hitched, her brother Will writes

465
00:25:29,720 --> 00:25:32,080
Speaker 1: this about his future in law at the time. So

466
00:25:32,119 --> 00:25:34,000
Speaker 1: this is like one of the earliest writings we have

467
00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:37,240
Speaker 1: about John James Audubon. Upon entering his room, I was

468
00:25:37,280 --> 00:25:39,600
Speaker 1: astonished and delighted to find that it was turned into

469
00:25:39,640 --> 00:25:42,720
Speaker 1: a museum. The walls were fistooned with all kinds of birds,

470
00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:45,520
Speaker 1: eggs carefully blown out and strung on a thread. The

471
00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:48,640
Speaker 1: chimney piece was covered with stuffed squirrels, raccoons, and a possums,

472
00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:51,440
Speaker 1: and the shelves around were likewise crowded with specimens, among

473
00:25:51,440 --> 00:25:54,719
Speaker 1: which were fishes, frogs, snakes, lizards, and other reptiles. Besides

474
00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:57,240
Speaker 1: these stuffed varieties, many paintings were raid on the walls,

475
00:25:57,320 --> 00:26:00,639
Speaker 1: chiefly of birds. He was an admirable marksman and spirit swimmer,

476
00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:03,679
Speaker 1: a clever writer, possessed of great activity in prodigious strength,

477
00:26:03,880 --> 00:26:05,840
Speaker 1: and was notable for the elegance of his figure and

478
00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:08,119
Speaker 1: the beauty of his features. And he hated nature by

479
00:26:08,119 --> 00:26:12,040
Speaker 1: a careful attendance to his dress behind. Besides other accomplishments,

480
00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:14,240
Speaker 1: he was musical, a good fencer, danced well and had

481
00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:16,840
Speaker 1: some acquaintance with Ledger Main tricks, worked in hair and

482
00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:22,640
Speaker 1: complete willow baskets. So he's a he's doing fine. Yeah, yeah,

483
00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:26,960
Speaker 1: I mean, so he's complimenting his like collection of stuffed animals, Yes,

484
00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:30,880
Speaker 1: bacon baskets and stuff and corpses. I feel like these

485
00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:33,600
Speaker 1: days that's the equivalent of like a DVD collection, right,

486
00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:35,960
Speaker 1: Like that's what these guys would be doing these days.

487
00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:38,080
Speaker 1: You go over to John James's house to like watch

488
00:26:38,119 --> 00:26:43,399
Speaker 1: his dead animals. Yeah, yeah, which we put on tonight

489
00:26:44,040 --> 00:26:45,720
Speaker 1: just you know, man, I've had a rough week. Just

490
00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:47,639
Speaker 1: put on I know, we watched Fox last week, but

491
00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:51,800
Speaker 1: just put Fox up again. Yeah why not? I mean,

492
00:26:51,840 --> 00:26:54,000
Speaker 1: I know, I know every part part of Fox, but

493
00:26:54,080 --> 00:27:00,520
Speaker 1: like yeah, yeah, it's just nice to fall asleep too. Yeah.

494
00:27:01,520 --> 00:27:04,960
Speaker 1: So after marrying in eight the couple decide to leave

495
00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:07,840
Speaker 1: the family farm and strike out for a mysterious and

496
00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:13,960
Speaker 1: untrod land, Kentucky. M Yeah, it's good. Yeah, this is

497
00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:17,440
Speaker 1: where the problems start, Dave, as they always do in Kentucky.

498
00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:20,520
Speaker 1: In Kentucky, So they set up a house together and

499
00:27:20,520 --> 00:27:22,280
Speaker 1: for a time, they get up every morning and they

500
00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:25,199
Speaker 1: swim together across the Ohio River. A right up by

501
00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:28,359
Speaker 1: the Audubon Society notes Lucy Bakewell was a tower of

502
00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:31,280
Speaker 1: strength to her husband while he struggled to find his calling.

503
00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:34,080
Speaker 1: Now this means that she stays home and raises the

504
00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:36,639
Speaker 1: two sons that they have together. Well he well, he

505
00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:39,359
Speaker 1: tries to make money. Now, despite his clear skill with

506
00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:43,040
Speaker 1: all things birds, John James Um first tries his hand

507
00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:46,280
Speaker 1: as a businessman. He starts a general store in Louisville,

508
00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:48,000
Speaker 1: where they live, and this does well enough that he

509
00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:51,080
Speaker 1: expands to a second location on the frontier, which is

510
00:27:51,119 --> 00:27:54,320
Speaker 1: just a slightly further west part of Kentucky at this point, right,

511
00:27:54,359 --> 00:27:56,960
Speaker 1: that's as far as white people have really gotten on

512
00:27:56,960 --> 00:28:01,359
Speaker 1: the East coast. So keeping this bisness stocked keeps him

513
00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:04,640
Speaker 1: heavily engaged, and his agreement with his business partner necessitates

514
00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:07,080
Speaker 1: that he keeps the cooking pot filled with wild game.

515
00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:10,879
Speaker 1: Right up in Smithsonian Magazine explains quote. As he hunted

516
00:28:10,920 --> 00:28:13,359
Speaker 1: and traveled, he improved his art on American birds and

517
00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:16,119
Speaker 1: kept careful field notes as well. His narrative of an

518
00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:18,600
Speaker 1: encounter with a flood of passenger pigeons in Kentucky in

519
00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:21,639
Speaker 1: autom eighteen thirteen is legendary. He gave up trying to

520
00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:24,480
Speaker 1: count the passing multitudes of the grayish blue, pink breasted

521
00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:26,520
Speaker 1: birds that numbered in the billions at the time of

522
00:28:26,520 --> 00:28:29,960
Speaker 1: the European discovery of America and are now extinct. The

523
00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:32,600
Speaker 1: air was literally filled with pigeons, he wrote of that encounter.

524
00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:35,360
Speaker 1: The light of noonday was obscured as buy an eclipse.

525
00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:38,280
Speaker 1: The dung fell in spots, not unlike melting flakes of snow,

526
00:28:38,360 --> 00:28:40,400
Speaker 1: and the continued buzz of wings had a tendency to

527
00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:44,000
Speaker 1: lull my senses to repose my goodness. Yeah, there were

528
00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:47,200
Speaker 1: so many of these birds, we killed all of them. Yeah,

529
00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:50,840
Speaker 1: that described it's like the classic film burdemic. It is

530
00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:54,920
Speaker 1: like the classic film burdemic film about bird attacks I

531
00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:58,040
Speaker 1: can think of. And like with bird dimmic, the only

532
00:28:58,160 --> 00:29:02,760
Speaker 1: solution to passenger pigeons was it a side Yeah of course. Yeah. Yeah.

533
00:29:03,080 --> 00:29:06,720
Speaker 1: So paper pins and like colors and stuff are not

534
00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:09,280
Speaker 1: cheap at this time, and and and this is his hobby,

535
00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:11,160
Speaker 1: Like he doesn't he's not making enough money to both

536
00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:13,120
Speaker 1: take care of his family and take care of his hobby.

537
00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:16,120
Speaker 1: So in order to make extra cash, he gets involved

538
00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:17,960
Speaker 1: in a vision in the kind of business that's gonna

539
00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:19,920
Speaker 1: gonna make him his extra art money. Dave. You know,

540
00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:22,280
Speaker 1: we we've all been there, right, Like, you know, you

541
00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:24,280
Speaker 1: want to make a small short films or something, but

542
00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:26,280
Speaker 1: you need extra cash, so you get a side gig.

543
00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:29,240
Speaker 1: Yeah you did that, right, What did what did? What

544
00:29:29,280 --> 00:29:31,160
Speaker 1: did you get into? Dave? Did you did you buy

545
00:29:31,240 --> 00:29:34,080
Speaker 1: enslaved people and travel with them in order to sell

546
00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:38,160
Speaker 1: them elsewhere in the state and market? Did you become

547
00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:49,520
Speaker 1: a slave deal Do that? That's interesting? Yeah? Uh, you

548
00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:53,480
Speaker 1: were just stuffing birds, You're just drawing and stuff in birds.

549
00:29:54,320 --> 00:29:58,680
Speaker 1: Now he's selling human beings. You like surprisingly stayed out

550
00:29:58,720 --> 00:30:03,959
Speaker 1: of history because it's like, you know, these aren't great times. Uh.

551
00:30:04,320 --> 00:30:09,760
Speaker 1: He delves right into the not great part. It's fun

552
00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:12,120
Speaker 1: because like the early biographies of him by like the

553
00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:14,400
Speaker 1: Autumn Society will just say that like he did not

554
00:30:14,520 --> 00:30:17,520
Speaker 1: have a problem with slavery. It's a little bit more

555
00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:24,760
Speaker 1: direct than that. He was neutral slavery um And he's

556
00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:27,640
Speaker 1: like he's not just a slave dealer, he's specifically like

557
00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:33,880
Speaker 1: an exploiter of uh trends in the slave market, where

558
00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:36,400
Speaker 1: he's like traveling to places where the slaves are dying

559
00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:38,440
Speaker 1: because it's the frontier, and it's like, look, I brought

560
00:30:38,520 --> 00:30:41,120
Speaker 1: some fresh slaves, but because it's far away, you gotta

561
00:30:41,120 --> 00:30:43,360
Speaker 1: pay me more. You know. He's he's like, fuck, you

562
00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:47,479
Speaker 1: know that's not there's good. There's no situation where this

563
00:30:47,520 --> 00:30:50,520
Speaker 1: is good. But the fact that it's too fund a

564
00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:59,280
Speaker 1: bird watching, yeah, well it's ship dude. Nice pencils aren't

565
00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:03,280
Speaker 1: cheap today, Robert. That's true, they're not. Look, you gotta

566
00:31:03,840 --> 00:31:07,120
Speaker 1: we've all done horrible things for good watercolor pencils, you know.

567
00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:10,000
Speaker 1: I mean I've at least shoplift at that for sure.

568
00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:16,160
Speaker 1: I'll still nice. Um. Have I ever trafficked, you know,

569
00:31:17,080 --> 00:31:22,080
Speaker 1: a shipping container filled with human beings um from Canada? Uh,

570
00:31:22,120 --> 00:31:26,920
Speaker 1: in order to pay for for for nice pastel markers? No,

571
00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:30,240
Speaker 1: but you know I'm glad you got that on record. Yeah,

572
00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:36,720
Speaker 1: I'm glad glad you got that. No, I have not. So.

573
00:31:37,120 --> 00:31:39,640
Speaker 1: The Audubon Is also kept slaves at home, um, which

574
00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:41,960
Speaker 1: allowed Lucy to work part time as a teacher. So

575
00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:46,239
Speaker 1: at least, yeah, it's pretty bad. Um. Another right up

576
00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:48,640
Speaker 1: by audubon dot Org notes they took a stand for

577
00:31:48,680 --> 00:31:51,600
Speaker 1: slavery by choosing to own slaves in the eighteen teens,

578
00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:55,080
Speaker 1: when the Audubons lived in Henderson, Kentucky, they had nine

579
00:31:55,160 --> 00:31:57,479
Speaker 1: enslaved people working for them in their household, but by

580
00:31:57,480 --> 00:32:00,000
Speaker 1: the end of the decade, when faced with financial difficulties,

581
00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:02,800
Speaker 1: they had sold them. In early nineteen nineteen, for instance,

582
00:32:02,800 --> 00:32:05,360
Speaker 1: Audubon took two enslaved men with him down the Mississippi

583
00:32:05,360 --> 00:32:07,520
Speaker 1: to New Orleans on a skiff, and when he got there,

584
00:32:07,520 --> 00:32:09,320
Speaker 1: he put the boat and the men up for sale.

585
00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:12,280
Speaker 1: So this is like, you know, he he's he's maximizing

586
00:32:12,360 --> 00:32:16,400
Speaker 1: his profits. Uh yeah, he's They're just any other commodity

587
00:32:16,440 --> 00:32:18,600
Speaker 1: to him. Really, that's the way he treats this. So

588
00:32:18,600 --> 00:32:22,320
Speaker 1: that's that's what's so like, I mean, it's insidious about

589
00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:24,960
Speaker 1: the entire time and the whole time, right, It's just

590
00:32:25,040 --> 00:32:30,719
Speaker 1: like this is a really good like example, like like

591
00:32:30,800 --> 00:32:33,280
Speaker 1: this is something I would want kids to learn about,

592
00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:38,400
Speaker 1: to show how mundane this horrifying thing was that this

593
00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:41,200
Speaker 1: guy is like I'm trying to just make a living

594
00:32:41,600 --> 00:32:44,840
Speaker 1: work my do my bird watching hobby, and it's just

595
00:32:45,360 --> 00:32:47,160
Speaker 1: like you said, like I'm going to sell the boat

596
00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:51,280
Speaker 1: and the slaves like no difference there, and that is yeah,

597
00:32:51,320 --> 00:32:54,280
Speaker 1: that's about that's all he thinks about it, um which

598
00:32:54,320 --> 00:32:57,280
Speaker 1: again I don't want to separate him from like the

599
00:32:57,480 --> 00:32:59,920
Speaker 1: main stream. But there's also like a lot of them

600
00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:02,800
Speaker 1: Americans who are saying this is horrible in the time, um,

601
00:33:02,840 --> 00:33:06,320
Speaker 1: including like prominent dudes like Ben Franklin. Uh So, it's

602
00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:08,840
Speaker 1: it's not like everyone is in agreement that this is

603
00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:13,719
Speaker 1: fine either, Like he's picking a side, you know. Um So,

604
00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:16,360
Speaker 1: in eighteen nineteen the bottom falls out of the economy

605
00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:20,400
Speaker 1: and James businesses business collapses. This is not really his fault.

606
00:33:20,520 --> 00:33:23,160
Speaker 1: The Panic of eighteen nineteen, as it was called, was

607
00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:25,160
Speaker 1: caused by the end of a century long period of

608
00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:28,160
Speaker 1: warfare between France and Great Britain. Like we don't talk

609
00:33:28,160 --> 00:33:29,760
Speaker 1: about this that much, but they were at war for

610
00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:32,640
Speaker 1: like a hundred years in this period. Like the US

611
00:33:32,720 --> 00:33:35,240
Speaker 1: Revolution is kind of a side show in the century

612
00:33:35,280 --> 00:33:37,520
Speaker 1: long war between France and Great Britain. And Great Britain

613
00:33:37,600 --> 00:33:39,800
Speaker 1: kind of part of why they don't do more to

614
00:33:39,880 --> 00:33:42,080
Speaker 1: stop the U S revolutions, Like they got a lot

615
00:33:42,120 --> 00:33:44,520
Speaker 1: on their plate, you know, there's a bunch of ship

616
00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:49,200
Speaker 1: going on. Um. So, this series of wars had caused

617
00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:54,000
Speaker 1: a huge demand for US agricultural products because like they're needed.

618
00:33:54,080 --> 00:33:56,680
Speaker 1: Right when you're fighting all these wars, you're getting all

619
00:33:56,680 --> 00:33:58,960
Speaker 1: your men can scripted to go fight these wars. You

620
00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:01,840
Speaker 1: don't have as many much you can't spend as much

621
00:34:01,880 --> 00:34:04,000
Speaker 1: time farming. So the fact that the US is producing

622
00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:06,040
Speaker 1: a lot of food, they're able to sell a shipload

623
00:34:06,080 --> 00:34:09,520
Speaker 1: of it in Europe um and when these wars end,

624
00:34:09,640 --> 00:34:12,840
Speaker 1: it's terrible for the U S. Economy. Right up in Ohio,

625
00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:16,680
Speaker 1: History Central explains during the various various British French conflicts,

626
00:34:16,800 --> 00:34:19,720
Speaker 1: United States goods, especially agricultural products, were in high demand

627
00:34:19,719 --> 00:34:22,239
Speaker 1: in Europe. The U S public had purchased western land

628
00:34:22,239 --> 00:34:24,880
Speaker 1: at an extravagant rate. In eighteen fifteen, people in the

629
00:34:24,960 --> 00:34:27,359
Speaker 1: U S. Purchased roughly one million acres of land from

630
00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:30,160
Speaker 1: the federal government. In eighteen nineteen, the amount of landed

631
00:34:30,200 --> 00:34:33,120
Speaker 1: skyrocket into three and a half million acres. Many people

632
00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:35,320
Speaker 1: in the United States could not afford to purchase the

633
00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:38,440
Speaker 1: land out right. The federal government did allow buying land

634
00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:40,719
Speaker 1: on credit. As the economy ground to a halt in

635
00:34:40,800 --> 00:34:43,000
Speaker 1: eighteen nineteen, many people in the US did not have

636
00:34:43,080 --> 00:34:45,040
Speaker 1: the money to pay off their loans. The Bank of

637
00:34:45,080 --> 00:34:47,240
Speaker 1: the United States, as well as state and private banks

638
00:34:47,280 --> 00:34:51,320
Speaker 1: began recalling loans demanding immediate payment. The bank's accident actions

639
00:34:51,360 --> 00:34:54,160
Speaker 1: resulted in the banking crisis of eighteen nineteen and helped

640
00:34:54,239 --> 00:34:57,000
Speaker 1: lead to the panic. So you know, it's like it's

641
00:34:57,040 --> 00:35:00,160
Speaker 1: it's a mortgage crisis basically. Yeah, it's this the that

642
00:35:00,239 --> 00:35:05,920
Speaker 1: keeps happening. Um. The resulting clusterfuck is particularly devastating in Kentucky,

643
00:35:05,960 --> 00:35:08,120
Speaker 1: where the frontier is active and people have been buying

644
00:35:08,120 --> 00:35:11,320
Speaker 1: a lot of land. Um. It was also like devastating

645
00:35:11,320 --> 00:35:13,920
Speaker 1: in Ohio for the same reasons, and it it destroys

646
00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:18,440
Speaker 1: basically anyone with a business, right Like the bottom falls

647
00:35:18,480 --> 00:35:21,640
Speaker 1: out of the currency and the audubonds lose everything. James

648
00:35:21,640 --> 00:35:24,479
Speaker 1: even goes to jail for his debts and is forced

649
00:35:24,520 --> 00:35:27,200
Speaker 1: to declare bankruptcy in order to get out of being

650
00:35:27,239 --> 00:35:31,200
Speaker 1: locked up. Um. Yeah, it's rough, rough times. The only

651
00:35:31,239 --> 00:35:33,520
Speaker 1: meaningful possessions he has left at the end of this

652
00:35:33,600 --> 00:35:36,680
Speaker 1: period are his art supplies and the portfolio of bird

653
00:35:36,760 --> 00:35:41,720
Speaker 1: drawings he'd accumulated over the years. So the first stage

654
00:35:41,719 --> 00:35:44,319
Speaker 1: of life business doesn't work out, but thanks to all

655
00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:48,439
Speaker 1: the slave selling, he has art supplies. UM. I don't

656
00:35:48,440 --> 00:35:51,719
Speaker 1: feel bad for him, but like rock bottom does look

657
00:35:51,719 --> 00:35:54,080
Speaker 1: a lot like walking around with a bunch of pictures

658
00:35:54,080 --> 00:35:57,440
Speaker 1: of birds and nothing else, and that that's rock bottom

659
00:35:57,480 --> 00:36:00,560
Speaker 1: for this guy. Yeah, that makes sense. All he's got

660
00:36:00,680 --> 00:36:03,759
Speaker 1: is his birds and his pencils. Um. So that's how

661
00:36:03,760 --> 00:36:05,720
Speaker 1: he decides to get his family back on his feet.

662
00:36:05,719 --> 00:36:09,240
Speaker 1: He starts by drawing portraits for five bucks ahead. Um

663
00:36:09,280 --> 00:36:12,160
Speaker 1: of just like, whoever's got five dollars, I'll draw your portraits.

664
00:36:12,480 --> 00:36:14,439
Speaker 1: And he's good enough that his friends help him find

665
00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:17,920
Speaker 1: work painting museum exhibits and doing taxidermy for a museum

666
00:36:17,920 --> 00:36:20,840
Speaker 1: in Cincinnati. Um. He gets a gig at the Peel

667
00:36:20,960 --> 00:36:24,080
Speaker 1: Museum in Philadelphia, where he's hired to mountain stuffed birds

668
00:36:24,080 --> 00:36:28,120
Speaker 1: on natural backgrounds. And again, he's better at this than

669
00:36:28,160 --> 00:36:31,800
Speaker 1: anybody else alive is so he gets connections very quickly

670
00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:34,840
Speaker 1: to wealthy and influential naturalists. Everyone notices like, oh wow,

671
00:36:35,880 --> 00:36:38,839
Speaker 1: these are the only stuffed birds that don't look like shit.

672
00:36:39,760 --> 00:36:42,600
Speaker 1: Um So, a well off young artist related to the

673
00:36:42,600 --> 00:36:46,040
Speaker 1: Philly museum keeper tells Audubon that there's a job opportunity

674
00:36:46,120 --> 00:36:49,399
Speaker 1: exploring the uncharted by white people lands beyond the Mississippi.

675
00:36:49,719 --> 00:36:53,239
Speaker 1: The Cincinnati museum needed more birds specimen samples of the

676
00:36:53,239 --> 00:36:55,920
Speaker 1: new species that we're waiting out in the wild. Um.

677
00:36:55,960 --> 00:36:58,480
Speaker 1: People have been like, I documenting these animals, but like

678
00:36:58,520 --> 00:37:01,040
Speaker 1: all you have his crew drawings really and so he's like, well,

679
00:37:01,160 --> 00:37:04,480
Speaker 1: I want some shot and stuffed and and documented and

680
00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:07,400
Speaker 1: brought back to the museum. So James goes out into

681
00:37:07,440 --> 00:37:10,200
Speaker 1: the frontier and he just starts shooting and documenting a

682
00:37:10,239 --> 00:37:13,439
Speaker 1: funckload of birds. He's been sent so many specimens back

683
00:37:13,440 --> 00:37:15,640
Speaker 1: to the museum that they owe him twelve hundred dollars,

684
00:37:15,640 --> 00:37:18,560
Speaker 1: which is like thirty grand and modern money, um, which

685
00:37:18,560 --> 00:37:20,520
Speaker 1: would have been enough to get his family in good

686
00:37:20,520 --> 00:37:23,520
Speaker 1: financial health. But Cincinnati is a town full of liars

687
00:37:23,520 --> 00:37:26,280
Speaker 1: and cheats, and the museum refuses to pay him. Wow,

688
00:37:26,560 --> 00:37:32,399
Speaker 1: scumbag museum. Fucking museums. That's why I don't go in them.

689
00:37:33,320 --> 00:37:35,120
Speaker 1: This is why the motto of this show is burn

690
00:37:35,320 --> 00:37:43,560
Speaker 1: every museum. That's it's right, it's behind the bastards, every

691
00:37:43,600 --> 00:37:46,800
Speaker 1: one of them. I mean, honestly, depending on the museum,

692
00:37:46,920 --> 00:37:50,200
Speaker 1: it's like, I mean, it's still have stolen ship. Anyway.

693
00:37:50,640 --> 00:37:54,800
Speaker 1: The last the last museum I was in was in

694
00:37:54,800 --> 00:37:58,120
Speaker 1: in Brussels, and they had an exhibit of those terra

695
00:37:58,160 --> 00:38:00,200
Speaker 1: Cotta soldiers, and I almost got into a fist fight

696
00:38:00,239 --> 00:38:03,200
Speaker 1: with those terras. What do you fucking doing in this museum?

697
00:38:03,680 --> 00:38:06,840
Speaker 1: Fucking museum, asked, piece of shit? What I said to

698
00:38:06,840 --> 00:38:09,560
Speaker 1: the terra Cotta soldier. I got ship faced in the

699
00:38:09,560 --> 00:38:12,799
Speaker 1: gunner outside the London Museum and went in drunk. And

700
00:38:12,840 --> 00:38:16,759
Speaker 1: that was a blast. Oh, because there's no like, there's

701
00:38:16,760 --> 00:38:19,319
Speaker 1: a rule against being You could be as drunk as

702
00:38:19,360 --> 00:38:23,200
Speaker 1: you want. No, no, I I They'll serve you alcohol

703
00:38:23,239 --> 00:38:26,160
Speaker 1: in the lubra. And well, at least I brought alcohol

704
00:38:26,200 --> 00:38:28,160
Speaker 1: into the lubra. In any case, I was drunk in

705
00:38:28,200 --> 00:38:34,000
Speaker 1: the in the um, it's liberating. So he gets sucked

706
00:38:34,040 --> 00:38:36,879
Speaker 1: over by this ship museum and he has to send

707
00:38:36,920 --> 00:38:39,319
Speaker 1: his family to live with relatives while he sets off

708
00:38:39,320 --> 00:38:42,719
Speaker 1: into the wild again to try and find make even

709
00:38:42,760 --> 00:38:44,600
Speaker 1: more money. And he takes an eighteen year old boy

710
00:38:44,640 --> 00:38:48,080
Speaker 1: with him. Um, it's fine, it's fine, it's fine. Um,

711
00:38:48,239 --> 00:38:51,760
Speaker 1: they gather a bunch of specimens. It wasn't fine until

712
00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:54,560
Speaker 1: you said it like that. I mean, it's one of

713
00:38:54,600 --> 00:38:57,359
Speaker 1: those things. I've never heard any allegations it wasn't. It's just,

714
00:38:57,560 --> 00:39:01,080
Speaker 1: you know, it's when you say, what's happened. Yeah, these

715
00:39:01,080 --> 00:39:03,480
Speaker 1: were the were like if we existed back in the day,

716
00:39:03,520 --> 00:39:06,200
Speaker 1: we'd have like an eighteen year old boy. You have

717
00:39:06,200 --> 00:39:09,839
Speaker 1: a boy who doesn't have a podcasting boy. We do

718
00:39:09,920 --> 00:39:15,560
Speaker 1: have a podcasting boy here. So with an eighteen year

719
00:39:15,600 --> 00:39:18,240
Speaker 1: old he goes into the woods and things are fine.

720
00:39:18,600 --> 00:39:20,560
Speaker 1: He gets a lot of specimens to see if he

721
00:39:20,600 --> 00:39:22,800
Speaker 1: can sell them to museum that's not run by crooks.

722
00:39:22,800 --> 00:39:25,719
Speaker 1: And he shoots and he poses, and he sketches just

723
00:39:26,120 --> 00:39:30,440
Speaker 1: thousands of animals. Smithsonian Magazine notes quote After drawing, he

724
00:39:30,480 --> 00:39:33,680
Speaker 1: often performed an anatomical dissection. Then, because he usually worked

725
00:39:33,719 --> 00:39:36,040
Speaker 1: deep in the wilderness, far from home, he cooked and

726
00:39:36,200 --> 00:39:39,240
Speaker 1: ate his specimens. Many of the descriptions in his Ornithological

727
00:39:39,280 --> 00:39:42,800
Speaker 1: Biography mentioned how a species tastes, testimony to how quickly

728
00:39:42,880 --> 00:39:46,160
Speaker 1: the largely self taught artist drew. The flesh of this

729
00:39:46,239 --> 00:39:48,279
Speaker 1: bird is tough and unfit for food, he writes of

730
00:39:48,280 --> 00:39:50,759
Speaker 1: the raven. The green winged teal, on the other hand,

731
00:39:50,760 --> 00:39:53,800
Speaker 1: has delicious flesh, probably the best of any of its tribe.

732
00:39:53,840 --> 00:39:56,080
Speaker 1: And I would readily agree with any epicure in saying

733
00:39:56,080 --> 00:39:58,000
Speaker 1: that when it has fed on wild oats at Green

734
00:39:58,040 --> 00:40:00,480
Speaker 1: Bay or unsoaked rice in the fields of Georgia and

735
00:40:00,520 --> 00:40:02,600
Speaker 1: the Carolinas for a few weeks after its arrival in

736
00:40:02,640 --> 00:40:05,239
Speaker 1: those countries. It is much superior to the canvas back

737
00:40:05,280 --> 00:40:08,680
Speaker 1: in tenderness, juiciness, and flavor. There's a lot of extinct

738
00:40:08,719 --> 00:40:11,320
Speaker 1: birds that we know how they taste because he shot

739
00:40:11,360 --> 00:40:14,440
Speaker 1: them and ate them. I love how this episode is

740
00:40:14,480 --> 00:40:18,200
Speaker 1: behind the bastards for humans and for birds. Yeah, like,

741
00:40:18,320 --> 00:40:22,680
Speaker 1: birds can listen to this episode if they want to. Yeah, yeah,

742
00:40:22,760 --> 00:40:25,080
Speaker 1: this is this is all of my content is meant

743
00:40:25,120 --> 00:40:28,359
Speaker 1: for human beings and for crows. But I do get.

744
00:40:28,560 --> 00:40:32,720
Speaker 1: I do get the use of also noting how tasty

745
00:40:32,760 --> 00:40:37,120
Speaker 1: they are because they're like you shouldn't want to know. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

746
00:40:37,120 --> 00:40:39,080
Speaker 1: if you're gonna shoot him, you should also eat their meat.

747
00:40:39,120 --> 00:40:41,800
Speaker 1: Like he's not. It's just again more, this guy is

748
00:40:41,840 --> 00:40:46,279
Speaker 1: like a hair's breadth away from going serial killer. Yeah no,

749
00:40:46,360 --> 00:40:49,160
Speaker 1: no again. It feels like at any second he'll be

750
00:40:49,239 --> 00:40:51,960
Speaker 1: like next. This story could turn, and it does turn,

751
00:40:52,080 --> 00:40:55,120
Speaker 1: but in a I mean it does turn um even

752
00:40:55,120 --> 00:40:57,560
Speaker 1: more than it has so. The mid late night eighteen

753
00:40:57,600 --> 00:41:00,160
Speaker 1: twenties is a time in which natural sciences in America

754
00:41:00,200 --> 00:41:04,560
Speaker 1: in Europe are undergoing the period of what's called institutionalization. Previously,

755
00:41:04,600 --> 00:41:07,080
Speaker 1: the work of documenting and studying animals had been done

756
00:41:07,080 --> 00:41:10,759
Speaker 1: by volunteers who are like gentleman scientists. Right, They're they're

757
00:41:10,840 --> 00:41:12,960
Speaker 1: rich dilettants with hobbies. Right. And that's what a lout

758
00:41:12,960 --> 00:41:14,920
Speaker 1: of on is. He's a rich kid who, because he

759
00:41:14,960 --> 00:41:17,319
Speaker 1: doesn't have to like struggle as a as a child

760
00:41:17,440 --> 00:41:19,440
Speaker 1: and a young man, is able to just kind of

761
00:41:19,480 --> 00:41:24,040
Speaker 1: like spend a lot of his time focusing on naturalism. Right.

762
00:41:24,080 --> 00:41:26,919
Speaker 1: And and it feels like during this time it's less

763
00:41:26,920 --> 00:41:30,200
Speaker 1: about like academic knowledge and more like who'll go out

764
00:41:30,280 --> 00:41:34,640
Speaker 1: and stuff a bunch of birds? Yeah? Yeah, the work.

765
00:41:35,880 --> 00:41:38,400
Speaker 1: Who has the time and the relative freedom to be

766
00:41:38,480 --> 00:41:41,520
Speaker 1: able to do that? Kind of rich guy? Yeah, stick

767
00:41:41,560 --> 00:41:43,960
Speaker 1: your head in all these holes, yeah, and just see

768
00:41:44,000 --> 00:41:45,920
Speaker 1: what's in there. Well yeah, and then like write it

769
00:41:45,960 --> 00:41:48,239
Speaker 1: down in this notebook, bring it back to us, and

770
00:41:48,280 --> 00:41:51,280
Speaker 1: we'll figure out what to do with that information. Yeah.

771
00:41:51,560 --> 00:41:54,680
Speaker 1: So that's that's starting to change in the eighteen twenties. Um,

772
00:41:54,840 --> 00:41:57,960
Speaker 1: And there's kind of a solidifying body of scientific elites

773
00:41:58,080 --> 00:42:01,239
Speaker 1: in this period that increasingly rests contempt for what they

774
00:42:01,239 --> 00:42:06,680
Speaker 1: call amateurs um, which is silly because also at this time,

775
00:42:07,600 --> 00:42:10,000
Speaker 1: none of the scientists are really that much better than

776
00:42:10,040 --> 00:42:13,520
Speaker 1: the amateurs. But in eighteen twenty four, Audubon is rejected

777
00:42:13,520 --> 00:42:16,799
Speaker 1: for membership in the Academy of Natural Sciences because they're like, well,

778
00:42:16,800 --> 00:42:21,879
Speaker 1: you're an amateur and we um aren't because we've spent

779
00:42:21,960 --> 00:42:24,920
Speaker 1: less time in the woods shooting birds. It doesn't make

780
00:42:24,960 --> 00:42:27,839
Speaker 1: a lot of sense in this period. So and if

781
00:42:27,880 --> 00:42:31,320
Speaker 1: only they knew that, like birds feels like it's keeping

782
00:42:31,400 --> 00:42:35,520
Speaker 1: him from you know, yeah, yeah, you really want to

783
00:42:35,640 --> 00:42:38,560
Speaker 1: encourage this guy to spend time with birds. Yeah, this

784
00:42:38,640 --> 00:42:40,960
Speaker 1: is this feels like his art school, you know. And

785
00:42:41,080 --> 00:42:44,120
Speaker 1: it's like, you know, uh, he knows what he has

786
00:42:44,200 --> 00:42:48,680
Speaker 1: done if he'd been stopped. But you know who won't

787
00:42:49,520 --> 00:42:54,520
Speaker 1: be stopped day, That's right, That's right, you never will

788
00:42:54,560 --> 00:43:00,000
Speaker 1: be Um often though we try, Uh, nothing stops David

789
00:43:00,080 --> 00:43:03,280
Speaker 1: Bell like a mist. I'm like a fine mist coming

790
00:43:03,280 --> 00:43:08,919
Speaker 1: out right doors, like a fog sweeping in through. Yeah,

791
00:43:08,920 --> 00:43:16,399
Speaker 1: your doors, mainly mainly the doors. So here's a pot

792
00:43:16,800 --> 00:43:27,680
Speaker 1: episode adds We're back and Sophie is complaining about things

793
00:43:27,680 --> 00:43:31,880
Speaker 1: that I've done. UM's fine, which is fine. Just just

794
00:43:32,040 --> 00:43:38,600
Speaker 1: know that I'm right. You usually are. But it doesn't matter, Sophie. No,

795
00:43:38,840 --> 00:43:41,000
Speaker 1: it's like it's like all those people who protested the

796
00:43:41,040 --> 00:43:44,320
Speaker 1: invasion of Iraq, but it still happened, just like this podcast.

797
00:43:44,600 --> 00:43:49,760
Speaker 1: This is the Iraq of podcasts about the founder of ornithology. Yeah,

798
00:43:50,200 --> 00:43:53,400
Speaker 1: that's exactly what it is. She's gonna throw a shoe

799
00:43:53,400 --> 00:43:56,879
Speaker 1: at you at some point. Yeah, yeah, that's right, that's right.

800
00:43:57,040 --> 00:44:02,560
Speaker 1: And Dave, you will form a terrorist group after I

801
00:44:02,680 --> 00:44:06,920
Speaker 1: incarceraate you in a prison and take over large chunks

802
00:44:06,920 --> 00:44:10,360
Speaker 1: of Syria and Iracta. That's me. You're going to be

803
00:44:10,400 --> 00:44:15,000
Speaker 1: the Isis of this story. Yeah, this has gotten away

804
00:44:15,000 --> 00:44:16,879
Speaker 1: from me. I'm gonna be honest with you. I mean

805
00:44:16,960 --> 00:44:20,240
Speaker 1: I was. I was going to accept like Rumsfeld or something.

806
00:44:21,760 --> 00:44:25,200
Speaker 1: I'm perfectly happy with Isis over here. That's better to

807
00:44:25,280 --> 00:44:28,280
Speaker 1: be Isis than Donald Rumsfeld. That is the general streuth

808
00:44:28,320 --> 00:44:33,920
Speaker 1: about history. So his drawings, he gets rejected kind of

809
00:44:33,960 --> 00:44:36,480
Speaker 1: initially by the scientific community, but his drawings are just

810
00:44:36,600 --> 00:44:40,000
Speaker 1: so good that he's able to build a solid career.

811
00:44:40,080 --> 00:44:43,080
Speaker 1: Like they can't like, they don't like that he's this

812
00:44:43,160 --> 00:44:47,320
Speaker 1: kind of dilettante scientist, but nobody's better at at drawing birds.

813
00:44:47,520 --> 00:44:50,800
Speaker 1: So he continually builds a name for himself, and eventually

814
00:44:50,800 --> 00:44:53,840
Speaker 1: he's able to Yeah, I'm sorry, that's the thing. I realized.

815
00:44:53,880 --> 00:44:56,360
Speaker 1: My dad, who's an artist in like the seventies, he

816
00:44:56,440 --> 00:44:59,200
Speaker 1: used to like drew schematics and stuff, and you realize

817
00:44:59,280 --> 00:45:01,120
Speaker 1: during that time, it's like, yeah, I mean, how else

818
00:45:01,120 --> 00:45:04,200
Speaker 1: are they going to get them? Yeah, Like, there's no computers.

819
00:45:04,239 --> 00:45:07,160
Speaker 1: You just need to hire someone who can draw ship

820
00:45:07,239 --> 00:45:10,560
Speaker 1: and that was important. That was important. And he does

821
00:45:10,600 --> 00:45:13,960
Speaker 1: well enough at this that finally, Dave, he's able to

822
00:45:14,000 --> 00:45:16,440
Speaker 1: buy more human beings for his wife and children to

823
00:45:17,239 --> 00:45:19,040
Speaker 1: he's able to do it. He gets bad, he's able

824
00:45:19,040 --> 00:45:21,960
Speaker 1: to finally after you know, it's like pawning, you know,

825
00:45:22,160 --> 00:45:24,960
Speaker 1: your car or your TV. He's a that's that's human

826
00:45:24,960 --> 00:45:31,239
Speaker 1: beings for him. Finally, Kevin his comic book collection after yeah,

827
00:45:31,320 --> 00:45:37,280
Speaker 1: good good not no no no, So this is bad bad.

828
00:45:37,680 --> 00:45:39,759
Speaker 1: The fact that he has slaves again allows him to

829
00:45:39,800 --> 00:45:43,279
Speaker 1: continue spending the vast majority of his time nowhere near

830
00:45:43,320 --> 00:45:46,120
Speaker 1: his family, gunning down and drawing birds in the wilderness,

831
00:45:46,440 --> 00:45:49,080
Speaker 1: you know, right up for Audubon dot Org, Gregor Gregory

832
00:45:49,200 --> 00:45:53,040
Speaker 1: Nobles notes quote, although never fully acknowledged, people of color,

833
00:45:53,200 --> 00:45:55,920
Speaker 1: African Americans, and Native Americans had a part in making

834
00:45:55,920 --> 00:45:59,600
Speaker 1: that massive project possible. Audubon occasionally relied on these local

835
00:45:59,600 --> 00:46:02,720
Speaker 1: observer for assistance in collecting specimens, and he sometimes accepted

836
00:46:02,760 --> 00:46:05,840
Speaker 1: their information about birds and incorporated it into his writings.

837
00:46:06,160 --> 00:46:09,640
Speaker 1: But even though Audubon found black and indigenous people scientifically useful,

838
00:46:09,840 --> 00:46:12,799
Speaker 1: he never accepted them as socially or racially equal. He

839
00:46:12,840 --> 00:46:15,759
Speaker 1: took pains to distinguish himself from them, and writing about

840
00:46:15,760 --> 00:46:18,920
Speaker 1: an expedition in Florida in December eighteen thirty one, Audubon

841
00:46:19,000 --> 00:46:21,000
Speaker 1: noted that he set out in a boat with sixtens,

842
00:46:21,120 --> 00:46:24,000
Speaker 1: with six enslaved black men hands as he called them,

843
00:46:24,080 --> 00:46:28,640
Speaker 1: and three white men, his emphasis clearly underscoring the racial

844
00:46:28,680 --> 00:46:30,520
Speaker 1: divide in the boat and his place on the white

845
00:46:30,520 --> 00:46:33,120
Speaker 1: side of it. So he's he writes in this that

846
00:46:33,200 --> 00:46:35,279
Speaker 1: like we we set out with six hands and three

847
00:46:35,280 --> 00:46:37,680
Speaker 1: white men. Right. Like, he's very consciously not referring to

848
00:46:37,760 --> 00:46:43,040
Speaker 1: the black people as humans. Um, because he's a racist. Um.

849
00:46:43,040 --> 00:46:46,240
Speaker 1: He sucks. Yeah. So by eighteen twenty six, John James

850
00:46:46,239 --> 00:46:48,560
Speaker 1: had realized that he had a purpose on this earth.

851
00:46:48,880 --> 00:46:51,439
Speaker 1: His great work, which is what he calls it, would

852
00:46:51,440 --> 00:46:54,600
Speaker 1: be to decisively identify name and sketch every single bird

853
00:46:54,680 --> 00:46:56,880
Speaker 1: species and the parts of North America controlled by the

854
00:46:57,000 --> 00:47:00,000
Speaker 1: US government. He called this book the Birds of America,

855
00:47:00,360 --> 00:47:02,680
Speaker 1: and it was to be a four volume massive work

856
00:47:02,719 --> 00:47:05,600
Speaker 1: of art and science. There would be engraved images of

857
00:47:05,640 --> 00:47:09,360
Speaker 1: four nineties species, each drawing the actual size of life

858
00:47:09,440 --> 00:47:12,480
Speaker 1: of the bird itself. This is like a massive massively.

859
00:47:12,480 --> 00:47:14,799
Speaker 1: You can see some of them in like museums like

860
00:47:14,840 --> 00:47:18,360
Speaker 1: it's it's the size like a person sized book um.

861
00:47:18,560 --> 00:47:21,520
Speaker 1: Most experts agree that even today he has not been

862
00:47:21,560 --> 00:47:25,160
Speaker 1: surpassed in depicting birds in this manner. He's like the

863
00:47:25,200 --> 00:47:28,759
Speaker 1: best there's ever been at drawn birds. So no one

864
00:47:28,800 --> 00:47:32,040
Speaker 1: in the US cares to fund his ridiculous giant bird book.

865
00:47:32,280 --> 00:47:34,319
Speaker 1: So he leaves his family behind and he sails to

866
00:47:34,360 --> 00:47:36,640
Speaker 1: Europe for several years, and he brings with him a plan.

867
00:47:37,320 --> 00:47:40,239
Speaker 1: He knew Europeans were obsessed with big new animals no

868
00:47:40,280 --> 00:47:42,880
Speaker 1: one had seen before, so Audubon brought with him a

869
00:47:43,000 --> 00:47:45,800
Speaker 1: drawing of a brand new species of North American eagle

870
00:47:45,920 --> 00:47:48,680
Speaker 1: he called the bird of Washington, which he claimed to

871
00:47:48,680 --> 00:47:52,520
Speaker 1: have sketched in the Pacific Northwest. Now this bird didn't exist,

872
00:47:52,800 --> 00:47:56,680
Speaker 1: it never has. He made it up, So yes, I

873
00:47:56,719 --> 00:48:00,759
Speaker 1: can get behind behind. He have been doing this from

874
00:48:00,880 --> 00:48:03,720
Speaker 1: day one. He should have been lying way more about birds.

875
00:48:04,120 --> 00:48:06,440
Speaker 1: You didn't even nego shoot anything, Just make draw some

876
00:48:06,480 --> 00:48:10,640
Speaker 1: fake birds, man, fake no human suffering. Just draw fake birds,

877
00:48:10,680 --> 00:48:13,120
Speaker 1: claim you saw them. We would have believed, We would

878
00:48:13,160 --> 00:48:15,759
Speaker 1: be believing him. Now. There would be people if he

879
00:48:15,800 --> 00:48:17,719
Speaker 1: had just like been like, oh, yeah, there's like a

880
00:48:17,760 --> 00:48:20,680
Speaker 1: four winged bird in uh in a in Michigan. Yeah,

881
00:48:20,800 --> 00:48:23,240
Speaker 1: a ton of them. There would be people whose whole

882
00:48:23,280 --> 00:48:26,240
Speaker 1: life would revolve around finding hiding in the like waiting

883
00:48:26,239 --> 00:48:29,400
Speaker 1: in the woods for that bird. There card stone statues

884
00:48:29,480 --> 00:48:31,480
Speaker 1: of them out in front of like rest stops in

885
00:48:31,520 --> 00:48:34,120
Speaker 1: the middle of nowhere. We just assumed that we like

886
00:48:34,239 --> 00:48:36,440
Speaker 1: killed them all, you know, we just assumed, like, oh,

887
00:48:36,520 --> 00:48:39,719
Speaker 1: I guess our pollution or whatever like you could have

888
00:48:39,760 --> 00:48:42,239
Speaker 1: this is the time. He doesn't Maybe he doesn't know it,

889
00:48:42,480 --> 00:48:45,000
Speaker 1: but this is the time to invent birds. It's a

890
00:48:45,000 --> 00:48:47,840
Speaker 1: shame bird invent We could have so many more cryptids

891
00:48:47,880 --> 00:48:50,759
Speaker 1: if he had really, if he'd gone really gone for it.

892
00:48:51,960 --> 00:48:54,400
Speaker 1: So you know, there is some debate over whether or

893
00:48:54,400 --> 00:48:56,800
Speaker 1: not he made a mistake or lied, but most experts

894
00:48:56,800 --> 00:48:58,760
Speaker 1: seemed to agree that he was just kind of forging

895
00:48:58,800 --> 00:49:01,360
Speaker 1: a bird in order to m up more excitement about

896
00:49:01,400 --> 00:49:04,399
Speaker 1: his book. Um. For one thing, by this point, it

897
00:49:04,480 --> 00:49:07,560
Speaker 1: was the standard scientifically that when you proposed the existence

898
00:49:07,600 --> 00:49:10,160
Speaker 1: of a new species, you provided physical evidence. You would

899
00:49:10,200 --> 00:49:12,239
Speaker 1: like shoot it and and preserve it and be like,

900
00:49:12,280 --> 00:49:14,200
Speaker 1: look here's this, Like there's a new bird, and here's

901
00:49:14,280 --> 00:49:16,640
Speaker 1: the pieces of it. Um. And he did this for

902
00:49:16,719 --> 00:49:19,680
Speaker 1: a lot of other birds, like he was doing this

903
00:49:19,719 --> 00:49:22,000
Speaker 1: for hundreds of animals. He doesn't do this for the

904
00:49:22,040 --> 00:49:24,319
Speaker 1: bird of Washington. Um. And so a lot of people

905
00:49:24,360 --> 00:49:26,600
Speaker 1: will note that, like, well, maybe that's evidence that he

906
00:49:26,680 --> 00:49:30,720
Speaker 1: was just this was just a con from the beginning. Um.

907
00:49:30,840 --> 00:49:33,239
Speaker 1: So yeah, And this, the bird of Washington is the

908
00:49:33,280 --> 00:49:35,759
Speaker 1: first bird that Audubon would display when he would like

909
00:49:35,800 --> 00:49:38,040
Speaker 1: sit in front of gatherings of wealthy people to try

910
00:49:38,040 --> 00:49:40,600
Speaker 1: to get him to pay money. Um. And he succeeds.

911
00:49:40,760 --> 00:49:43,000
Speaker 1: He drums up a lot of huge amounts of money,

912
00:49:43,120 --> 00:49:47,040
Speaker 1: enough to fund the Birds of America. That's good God,

913
00:49:47,600 --> 00:49:52,359
Speaker 1: it's just this. Everything everything sucks about this time, like

914
00:49:52,680 --> 00:49:56,759
Speaker 1: mostly the slavery mostly, but also the fact that like

915
00:49:57,560 --> 00:50:01,160
Speaker 1: you could commit bird forgery to get funding from wealthy

916
00:50:01,239 --> 00:50:04,440
Speaker 1: people who are like, yes, I will fund your bird

917
00:50:04,520 --> 00:50:07,640
Speaker 1: exposition to like, like, we're still at that point in

918
00:50:07,680 --> 00:50:09,880
Speaker 1: the world where it's just like I would like to

919
00:50:09,880 --> 00:50:14,520
Speaker 1: know about all the birds that's around my god damn motherfucker.

920
00:50:14,840 --> 00:50:17,600
Speaker 1: Again to your point earlier, if it's that easy to

921
00:50:17,680 --> 00:50:19,960
Speaker 1: con rich people out of money by making up birds,

922
00:50:20,200 --> 00:50:23,359
Speaker 1: why didn't you make up more birds? Come on, come on,

923
00:50:23,480 --> 00:50:26,600
Speaker 1: man it from the start. As a lover of think

924
00:50:26,600 --> 00:50:28,799
Speaker 1: of the X Files episodes we could have gotten if

925
00:50:28,800 --> 00:50:33,279
Speaker 1: he'd made up like a bird with with claw went

926
00:50:33,360 --> 00:50:36,160
Speaker 1: after the Jersey Devil episode was pretty damn good. We

927
00:50:36,160 --> 00:50:38,200
Speaker 1: could have had like two or three more. They would

928
00:50:38,239 --> 00:50:40,200
Speaker 1: have been amazing. We could have got the whole more

929
00:50:40,400 --> 00:50:43,160
Speaker 1: other season out of just birds. Yeah, they could have

930
00:50:43,160 --> 00:50:46,360
Speaker 1: been a spinoff called Agent Mulder bird Hunter. Yeah. And

931
00:50:46,440 --> 00:50:50,760
Speaker 1: he just he just fights man size birds all the time.

932
00:50:50,840 --> 00:50:56,440
Speaker 1: What a tragedy inc he makes. He gets people give

933
00:50:56,520 --> 00:50:58,440
Speaker 1: him a bunch of money. Uh, and he returns to

934
00:50:58,480 --> 00:51:01,239
Speaker 1: North America and he finishes his great work. And while

935
00:51:01,280 --> 00:51:03,960
Speaker 1: he's doing this, he's able to mix his two passions

936
00:51:03,960 --> 00:51:06,520
Speaker 1: at this point, which you should know are lying in racism.

937
00:51:06,719 --> 00:51:10,319
Speaker 1: And I'm gonna quote from Gregory Nobles again. Audubon also

938
00:51:10,400 --> 00:51:13,920
Speaker 1: through his writing manipulated racial tensions to enhance his notoriety.

939
00:51:14,160 --> 00:51:17,160
Speaker 1: The Tale of the Runaway, one of the episodes about

940
00:51:17,160 --> 00:51:20,399
Speaker 1: American life he inserted into his three thousand page five

941
00:51:20,480 --> 00:51:24,960
Speaker 1: volume Ornithological Biography, A companion to Birds of America, spins

942
00:51:25,000 --> 00:51:27,360
Speaker 1: the tale of an encounter with a black man in

943
00:51:27,400 --> 00:51:30,840
Speaker 1: a Louisiana swamp. Audubon, who had been hunting wood storks

944
00:51:30,880 --> 00:51:33,440
Speaker 1: with his dog Plato, had a gun, but so did

945
00:51:33,440 --> 00:51:35,879
Speaker 1: the black man. After a brief face off, both men

946
00:51:35,920 --> 00:51:38,840
Speaker 1: put down their weapons. Even as he described the tension easing,

947
00:51:38,840 --> 00:51:41,400
Speaker 1: Audubon had already hooked into the fears of his readers.

948
00:51:41,680 --> 00:51:44,680
Speaker 1: Published three years after Nat Turner's Slave Rebellion in eighteen

949
00:51:44,719 --> 00:51:47,719
Speaker 1: thirty one, The Runaway presented the most menacing image of

950
00:51:47,800 --> 00:51:50,799
Speaker 1: imaginable for many white people, the sudden specter of an

951
00:51:50,880 --> 00:51:53,920
Speaker 1: armed black man. Audubon knew how to get people's attention.

952
00:51:54,280 --> 00:51:56,080
Speaker 1: He also knew how to put himself in the most

953
00:51:56,080 --> 00:51:59,120
Speaker 1: favorable light. The man and his family had escaped slavery,

954
00:51:59,120 --> 00:52:01,000
Speaker 1: and we're living in the s As the and as

955
00:52:01,040 --> 00:52:04,160
Speaker 1: the tail unfolds, Audubon spent the night at the family's encampment.

956
00:52:04,480 --> 00:52:07,879
Speaker 1: Companion of believe it also quite at their mercy. It

957
00:52:07,960 --> 00:52:10,520
Speaker 1: was the fugitives, however, who were really the most vulnerable.

958
00:52:10,800 --> 00:52:13,560
Speaker 1: The next morning, Audubon took them back to the plantation

959
00:52:13,640 --> 00:52:16,319
Speaker 1: of their first master and convinced the planter to buy

960
00:52:16,360 --> 00:52:18,880
Speaker 1: the enslaved people back from the masters, to which the

961
00:52:18,880 --> 00:52:21,480
Speaker 1: family had been divided and sold. And that was that.

962
00:52:21,840 --> 00:52:24,839
Speaker 1: Reunited but still enslaved, the black family was rendered as

963
00:52:24,880 --> 00:52:28,880
Speaker 1: happy as slaves generally are in that country. That's Audubon's words,

964
00:52:28,920 --> 00:52:32,120
Speaker 1: exactly what happiness. Audubon did not say in the span

965
00:52:32,200 --> 00:52:34,360
Speaker 1: of a single story, true or not, and many of

966
00:52:34,400 --> 00:52:37,600
Speaker 1: Audubon's episodes were not. Audubon portrayed himself as both the

967
00:52:37,640 --> 00:52:40,640
Speaker 1: savior of a fugitive family and a defender of slaveholders

968
00:52:40,640 --> 00:52:45,440
Speaker 1: claims to human property rights. Because bleak, that's a really

969
00:52:45,480 --> 00:52:48,399
Speaker 1: bleak story. It's bleak if he made it all up.

970
00:52:48,440 --> 00:52:51,759
Speaker 1: It's also bleak if he took this family who had

971
00:52:51,800 --> 00:52:55,160
Speaker 1: like freed themselves after getting split up back to a

972
00:52:55,200 --> 00:52:57,799
Speaker 1: slave owner where they were surely split up again, right

973
00:52:57,960 --> 00:53:03,160
Speaker 1: to quote unquote like save them. Ah, it's pretty bad.

974
00:53:03,560 --> 00:53:07,200
Speaker 1: That's a that's that's that's a blique story. Um. The

975
00:53:07,239 --> 00:53:09,800
Speaker 1: Birds of America and the works that followed made Audubon

976
00:53:09,840 --> 00:53:13,000
Speaker 1: a household name among people who liked birds. He traveled

977
00:53:13,000 --> 00:53:15,040
Speaker 1: back and forth to Europe, where he was a celebrity,

978
00:53:15,239 --> 00:53:17,880
Speaker 1: and he doubled and trebled down on his racism. In

979
00:53:17,920 --> 00:53:20,200
Speaker 1: eighteen thirty four, he wrote his wife to complain when

980
00:53:20,239 --> 00:53:23,640
Speaker 1: the British government made slavery illegal, arguing they had quote

981
00:53:23,680 --> 00:53:28,040
Speaker 1: acted imprudently and to precipitously. Now, in his later life,

982
00:53:28,120 --> 00:53:30,720
Speaker 1: Audubon seems to have taken personal umbrage at the idea

983
00:53:30,760 --> 00:53:33,000
Speaker 1: of enslaved people, some of whom may well have been

984
00:53:33,040 --> 00:53:37,000
Speaker 1: his ancestors, freeing themselves. In a letter written for his sons,

985
00:53:37,000 --> 00:53:39,520
Speaker 1: he described his birth mother, who he had never known,

986
00:53:39,600 --> 00:53:43,120
Speaker 1: as a lady of Spanish extraction from Louisiana, which is

987
00:53:43,200 --> 00:53:45,879
Speaker 1: not true. He claimed she had gone back to San

988
00:53:45,960 --> 00:53:48,400
Speaker 1: Domain with his father and become quote one of the

989
00:53:48,480 --> 00:53:51,320
Speaker 1: victims during the ever to be limited period of Negro

990
00:53:51,480 --> 00:53:55,200
Speaker 1: insurrection on that island. So he lies and claims that

991
00:53:55,280 --> 00:53:57,960
Speaker 1: his mom had been murdered during a slave uprising, when

992
00:53:57,960 --> 00:54:00,920
Speaker 1: the reality is that his mom may have been in uh,

993
00:54:00,960 --> 00:54:05,400
Speaker 1: if not just mixed race, that possibly even an enslaved person. Yeah,

994
00:54:05,680 --> 00:54:09,280
Speaker 1: involved in something. Yea, it is unclear what the truth

995
00:54:09,360 --> 00:54:11,040
Speaker 1: is of his parentage, but we know that he is

996
00:54:11,120 --> 00:54:15,480
Speaker 1: lying about this. Um and Gregory Nobles, who is He's

997
00:54:15,520 --> 00:54:18,000
Speaker 1: writing for the Audubon Society. Nobles is a is a

998
00:54:18,000 --> 00:54:21,120
Speaker 1: a black member of the Audubon Society, and suspects that

999
00:54:21,600 --> 00:54:24,719
Speaker 1: Audubon may have made this claim because quote having a

1000
00:54:24,760 --> 00:54:28,520
Speaker 1: European mother killed by black rebels reinforced a white identity

1001
00:54:28,719 --> 00:54:31,520
Speaker 1: and in an American society where whiteness proved and still

1002
00:54:31,560 --> 00:54:34,440
Speaker 1: proves the safest form of social identity, which you know,

1003
00:54:35,040 --> 00:54:38,920
Speaker 1: it makes sense. Yeah, no, it makes perfect sense overall.

1004
00:54:39,000 --> 00:54:42,120
Speaker 1: The story. It just shows like, yeah, I just think

1005
00:54:42,120 --> 00:54:45,239
Speaker 1: it's a it's an amazing example of how slavery and

1006
00:54:45,360 --> 00:54:49,520
Speaker 1: racism is just was fucking like you can put an

1007
00:54:49,520 --> 00:54:53,759
Speaker 1: asterisk like under basically any invention that started during this

1008
00:54:53,880 --> 00:54:56,919
Speaker 1: time and saying like yeah, and it was built upon

1009
00:54:57,000 --> 00:55:01,000
Speaker 1: the suffering of a bunch of people, like fucking bird watching.

1010
00:55:01,680 --> 00:55:05,759
Speaker 1: I gotta pay for those pencils somehow, Dave, it's ridiculous.

1011
00:55:05,960 --> 00:55:09,640
Speaker 1: It's like, yeah, it seems like you could have avoided this.

1012
00:55:10,640 --> 00:55:15,720
Speaker 1: A person could have avoided inventing bird watching without brutalizing.

1013
00:55:15,800 --> 00:55:18,239
Speaker 1: A bunch of people would have figured out how to

1014
00:55:18,360 --> 00:55:21,560
Speaker 1: draw birds right like we would have gotten that down

1015
00:55:21,920 --> 00:55:26,319
Speaker 1: without the slavery. In eighteen forty three, John James set

1016
00:55:26,320 --> 00:55:28,680
Speaker 1: out on what was to be his last adventure into

1017
00:55:28,680 --> 00:55:30,920
Speaker 1: the wilds. He went up the Missus. He went up

1018
00:55:30,920 --> 00:55:34,040
Speaker 1: the Missouri River and out the yellow Stone. At fifty

1019
00:55:34,040 --> 00:55:35,719
Speaker 1: eight years old, he was just on the verge of

1020
00:55:35,719 --> 00:55:37,840
Speaker 1: being too old to handle the rigors of the journey.

1021
00:55:38,160 --> 00:55:40,759
Speaker 1: His project this trip was a catalog of specimens and

1022
00:55:40,800 --> 00:55:44,239
Speaker 1: engravings to be called Quadrupeds of North America. This was

1023
00:55:44,280 --> 00:55:47,640
Speaker 1: a worthy scientific undertaking, Yet John James embarked on another,

1024
00:55:47,760 --> 00:55:51,320
Speaker 1: much less worthy endeavor. The eighteen forties was a period

1025
00:55:51,360 --> 00:55:54,279
Speaker 1: in which Dr Samuel George Morton was beginning to lay

1026
00:55:54,280 --> 00:55:57,719
Speaker 1: out the underpinnings of what would become scientific racism. He

1027
00:55:57,760 --> 00:56:01,080
Speaker 1: believed that cranial capacity and thus, in his belief, intelligence

1028
00:56:01,360 --> 00:56:06,359
Speaker 1: must mirror his preconceptions about the intelligence of races. Thus, black, indigenous,

1029
00:56:06,360 --> 00:56:09,719
Speaker 1: Hispanic people, et cetera must have less cranial capacity than

1030
00:56:09,760 --> 00:56:12,920
Speaker 1: white people. Now this is the branch of science that

1031
00:56:12,960 --> 00:56:16,400
Speaker 1: becomes phrenology and eventually a punch of even worship. Besides

1032
00:56:16,960 --> 00:56:20,560
Speaker 1: John James Audubon was super into it, and he was

1033
00:56:20,600 --> 00:56:24,239
Speaker 1: also way into Morton, who had become his patron right

1034
00:56:24,360 --> 00:56:28,160
Speaker 1: up and Commonplace Online notes Morton was a generation younger

1035
00:56:28,200 --> 00:56:30,560
Speaker 1: than Audubon, but the friendship between the two men ran

1036
00:56:30,640 --> 00:56:34,160
Speaker 1: back through the eighteen thirties. Morton, with his institutional connections,

1037
00:56:34,200 --> 00:56:37,440
Speaker 1: helped to share Audubon a place in the country's scientific establishment.

1038
00:56:37,719 --> 00:56:40,080
Speaker 1: He settled some of Audubon's debts when the artist was

1039
00:56:40,120 --> 00:56:43,400
Speaker 1: in England and soothed his worries about upstart rivals. In return,

1040
00:56:43,440 --> 00:56:47,279
Speaker 1: Audubon looked for skulls for Morton. European craniologists weren't ready

1041
00:56:47,360 --> 00:56:49,879
Speaker 1: to share their skulls with the Americans, although Audubon did

1042
00:56:49,880 --> 00:56:54,200
Speaker 1: find Morton a portfolio of sketches. So while he's shooting

1043
00:56:54,200 --> 00:56:57,759
Speaker 1: a drawing squirrels, he visits indigenous villages, villages of the

1044
00:56:57,960 --> 00:57:02,200
Speaker 1: Mandan and sen Boyne, indigenous people's um and these villages

1045
00:57:02,239 --> 00:57:04,759
Speaker 1: have been like smallpox is like killed most of the

1046
00:57:04,800 --> 00:57:07,920
Speaker 1: people there, right, So he's he's he's stumbling into these

1047
00:57:08,000 --> 00:57:11,080
Speaker 1: villages after watching them get wiped out. And I'm gonna

1048
00:57:11,400 --> 00:57:14,120
Speaker 1: quote from Commonplace Online again about what he does next.

1049
00:57:14,920 --> 00:57:17,880
Speaker 1: The epidemic had been devastating. Audubon new during the week

1050
00:57:17,920 --> 00:57:19,840
Speaker 1: spent at Fort Union, he penned an account of the

1051
00:57:19,960 --> 00:57:22,760
Speaker 1: fearful ravages of smallpox. He must have known that a

1052
00:57:22,840 --> 00:57:26,160
Speaker 1: people nearly exterminated left few to help bury the dead.

1053
00:57:26,520 --> 00:57:30,120
Speaker 1: The skulls Audubon collected for Morton that summer earned casual

1054
00:57:30,160 --> 00:57:32,480
Speaker 1: mentions in his journal. On June eighteenth, he and his

1055
00:57:32,520 --> 00:57:35,160
Speaker 1: companions puzzled over when it might be best to take

1056
00:57:35,200 --> 00:57:37,640
Speaker 1: away the schools, some six or seven in number, all

1057
00:57:37,680 --> 00:57:41,160
Speaker 1: a sinaboy in Indians. On June twenty two, walking over

1058
00:57:41,160 --> 00:57:43,840
Speaker 1: the prairie, I found an Indian skull and put it

1059
00:57:43,840 --> 00:57:46,200
Speaker 1: in my game pouch. And on July two he and

1060
00:57:46,240 --> 00:57:48,600
Speaker 1: a companion walked off with a bag of instruments to

1061
00:57:48,640 --> 00:57:50,640
Speaker 1: take off the head of a three year old dead

1062
00:57:50,680 --> 00:57:54,240
Speaker 1: Indian chief called the White Cow. They tumbled the coffin

1063
00:57:54,280 --> 00:57:56,440
Speaker 1: out of a tree burial and found a body wrapped

1064
00:57:56,440 --> 00:57:59,920
Speaker 1: into buffalo ropes and enveloped in an American flag. They

1065
00:58:00,040 --> 00:58:02,480
Speaker 1: took the head, Audubon wrote, and left the rest on

1066
00:58:02,520 --> 00:58:06,840
Speaker 1: the ground. Morton's catalog also credited Audubon with contributing the

1067
00:58:06,880 --> 00:58:09,560
Speaker 1: skull of a fifty year old blackfoot man named Bloody Hand,

1068
00:58:09,600 --> 00:58:12,800
Speaker 1: along with the heads of two Upsaroka men, both about

1069
00:58:12,840 --> 00:58:16,160
Speaker 1: forty years old, and two schools twelve thirty a centaboy

1070
00:58:16,160 --> 00:58:20,640
Speaker 1: in Indian of Missouri, woman estimated twenty years old, centa

1071
00:58:20,640 --> 00:58:23,800
Speaker 1: boy and woman estimated like, yeah, they're eighty five years old.

1072
00:58:23,920 --> 00:58:26,480
Speaker 1: He gives all these like different that's all they've become,

1073
00:58:26,520 --> 00:58:29,000
Speaker 1: like numbers twelve thirty and twelve thirty one from J. J.

1074
00:58:29,160 --> 00:58:33,320
Speaker 1: Audubon Esquire, you know, like a d eighteen forty five,

1075
00:58:33,440 --> 00:58:35,560
Speaker 1: like the year it's found, the number of the skull,

1076
00:58:35,600 --> 00:58:37,680
Speaker 1: and the guy who found it no attempts to find

1077
00:58:37,680 --> 00:58:42,240
Speaker 1: the numbers of the human beings. These these belong to um. Yeah,

1078
00:58:42,320 --> 00:58:44,320
Speaker 1: and it's it's one of those things. It's also just

1079
00:58:44,360 --> 00:58:46,959
Speaker 1: like bad anthropology because it's not about anthropology, it's about

1080
00:58:46,960 --> 00:58:50,919
Speaker 1: proving racism. Because they're there for it's for shitty science. Yeah,

1081
00:58:51,560 --> 00:58:54,720
Speaker 1: it's grave robbing for bad science. Yeah, because they like

1082
00:58:54,800 --> 00:58:56,560
Speaker 1: find this cheap. Not that it would have been good

1083
00:58:56,600 --> 00:58:58,840
Speaker 1: if they had like done what you know Egyptologists do,

1084
00:58:58,920 --> 00:59:00,680
Speaker 1: and like you find this chief who has been buried

1085
00:59:00,680 --> 00:59:03,000
Speaker 1: in the specific way with with artifacts, and you like

1086
00:59:03,080 --> 00:59:04,840
Speaker 1: take the whole thing to a museum like that would

1087
00:59:04,840 --> 00:59:07,960
Speaker 1: have been bad too, But they're not even doing that.

1088
00:59:08,000 --> 00:59:09,840
Speaker 1: They're just like ripping the skull out and leaving the

1089
00:59:09,880 --> 00:59:13,360
Speaker 1: rest on the ground, right, they just need skulls. It's

1090
00:59:13,360 --> 00:59:17,160
Speaker 1: like even worse than normal gray robbing. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

1091
00:59:17,200 --> 00:59:19,400
Speaker 1: it's it's none of it's great. Like like you said,

1092
00:59:19,440 --> 00:59:24,520
Speaker 1: even if it was for a science that like made sense, Yeah,

1093
00:59:25,000 --> 00:59:27,640
Speaker 1: even if it was getting useful scientific data, it would

1094
00:59:27,680 --> 00:59:32,720
Speaker 1: be bad. And it's absolutely not. Um So, Audubon was

1095
00:59:32,880 --> 00:59:35,840
Speaker 1: not quite as prolific at skull stealing as he wasn't

1096
00:59:35,840 --> 00:59:38,720
Speaker 1: shooting random animals and sketching them, but he was still

1097
00:59:38,800 --> 00:59:43,240
Speaker 1: pretty prolific. Skull collection is listed in one of his books,

1098
00:59:43,240 --> 00:59:46,120
Speaker 1: and in eighteen forty it contained a lot of Audubon

1099
00:59:46,320 --> 00:59:49,280
Speaker 1: stolen skulls um and not all of them him belonged

1100
00:59:49,320 --> 00:59:52,200
Speaker 1: to indigenous people. I'm gonna quote now from Morton's like

1101
00:59:52,400 --> 00:59:56,080
Speaker 1: Skull Diary number five five five Mexican soldier with three

1102
00:59:56,080 --> 00:59:58,600
Speaker 1: sick a tricks gunshot wounds in the right prietal bone,

1103
00:59:58,960 --> 01:00:02,040
Speaker 1: slain at sand just said to eight thirty six J. J.

1104
01:00:02,200 --> 01:00:06,120
Speaker 1: Audibon esquire five five six Mexican soldier with Cicatrix Depression

1105
01:00:06,120 --> 01:00:08,760
Speaker 1: of frontal and nasal bones Lane at San Jacinto, eighteen

1106
01:00:08,760 --> 01:00:11,680
Speaker 1: thirty six. J. J. Audubon est like he goes to

1107
01:00:11,800 --> 01:00:15,240
Speaker 1: battlefields and he just digs up corpses of Mexican soldiers

1108
01:00:15,320 --> 01:00:20,160
Speaker 1: and takes their skulls. Look, there are worse ways to

1109
01:00:20,200 --> 01:00:23,840
Speaker 1: get skulls, but not many, but not like not a lot.

1110
01:00:24,080 --> 01:00:28,040
Speaker 1: I'm I'm mostly thinking of the one other way. But like, yeah,

1111
01:00:28,120 --> 01:00:32,479
Speaker 1: this is this is pretty scummy. Yeah, it's it's pretty bad.

1112
01:00:32,520 --> 01:00:34,720
Speaker 1: It's pretty bad, like just go into a battlefield and

1113
01:00:34,800 --> 01:00:38,280
Speaker 1: digging up dead men and taking their sucking bones to

1114
01:00:38,360 --> 01:00:40,680
Speaker 1: give to your friend in New York or where Philly.

1115
01:00:40,720 --> 01:00:43,800
Speaker 1: I think so. Obviously, John Audubon is not the only

1116
01:00:43,920 --> 01:00:46,840
Speaker 1: racist naturalist who would play a foundational role in White

1117
01:00:46,840 --> 01:00:49,520
Speaker 1: America's concept of the great outdoors. We will one day

1118
01:00:49,520 --> 01:00:52,000
Speaker 1: to talk about John Muir, who is it plays a

1119
01:00:52,080 --> 01:00:56,040
Speaker 1: huge positive role in a lot of aspects of the

1120
01:00:56,160 --> 01:00:58,640
Speaker 1: national park system and stuff. He's got a great park

1121
01:00:58,720 --> 01:01:02,320
Speaker 1: near San Francisco named after him. Also just the most

1122
01:01:02,480 --> 01:01:07,320
Speaker 1: racist dude you can like, so, and there's a yeah,

1123
01:01:07,360 --> 01:01:09,560
Speaker 1: it'd be hard to think that the person who like

1124
01:01:09,640 --> 01:01:13,800
Speaker 1: established parks wasn't like a massive racist right, right, because

1125
01:01:13,800 --> 01:01:15,840
Speaker 1: there's a lot of that in the idea of like

1126
01:01:15,880 --> 01:01:18,160
Speaker 1: the idea that develops of the great outdoors, which is

1127
01:01:18,200 --> 01:01:20,920
Speaker 1: nearly always a place in which like, well it's just

1128
01:01:21,000 --> 01:01:23,200
Speaker 1: white people who are supposed to be partaking in at

1129
01:01:23,360 --> 01:01:27,760
Speaker 1: like yeah, um, and obviously it's It's also worth noting

1130
01:01:27,880 --> 01:01:31,200
Speaker 1: John James Audubon is not even like the only famous

1131
01:01:31,240 --> 01:01:34,480
Speaker 1: bird watcher in this period to steal indigenous people's skulls.

1132
01:01:35,320 --> 01:01:38,000
Speaker 1: It's it's a it's a way to make extra money.

1133
01:01:38,120 --> 01:01:40,120
Speaker 1: If if you're a naturalist, is like, well, you can

1134
01:01:40,160 --> 01:01:43,200
Speaker 1: also steal some skulls, you know. Yeah, it makes sense

1135
01:01:43,200 --> 01:01:45,240
Speaker 1: in the sense of like, so when you're playing a

1136
01:01:45,320 --> 01:01:48,120
Speaker 1: video game, they often have the like go collect these

1137
01:01:48,160 --> 01:01:51,080
Speaker 1: items and this items, and you can do both at once.

1138
01:01:51,160 --> 01:01:53,360
Speaker 1: So it's like, yeah, I'm out in the woods collecting

1139
01:01:54,440 --> 01:01:57,040
Speaker 1: some extra XP and I can grab grab some skulls

1140
01:01:57,040 --> 01:02:01,600
Speaker 1: while I'm atic. Right, If they were saying, like, pick

1141
01:02:01,680 --> 01:02:05,160
Speaker 1: some berries, they would do that, but no, they want skulls,

1142
01:02:05,280 --> 01:02:09,720
Speaker 1: so there picking picking skulls. John Kirk Townsend was a

1143
01:02:09,800 --> 01:02:13,360
Speaker 1: pioneering ornithologist. In eighteen thirty four, he won a grant

1144
01:02:13,360 --> 01:02:16,400
Speaker 1: from the Academy of Natural Sciences of Philadelphia, and he

1145
01:02:16,440 --> 01:02:20,080
Speaker 1: crossed over the Pacific coast to gather specimens, many of

1146
01:02:20,080 --> 01:02:22,480
Speaker 1: which were then sketched by Audubon, so he and Audubon

1147
01:02:22,520 --> 01:02:26,880
Speaker 1: would work together. Researcher Matthew Holly recently discovered a letter

1148
01:02:26,920 --> 01:02:29,720
Speaker 1: from Townsend to Morton which gives good insight and how

1149
01:02:29,760 --> 01:02:33,280
Speaker 1: he and Audubon went about their grim work. Quote. I

1150
01:02:33,360 --> 01:02:36,120
Speaker 1: was enjoying the society of civilized beings again. And believe me,

1151
01:02:36,240 --> 01:02:38,320
Speaker 1: my dear doctor, that this was no small treat to me,

1152
01:02:38,400 --> 01:02:40,840
Speaker 1: after having been compelled to sojourn for such a length

1153
01:02:40,880 --> 01:02:44,000
Speaker 1: of time amongst savages little better than brutal beasts. I

1154
01:02:44,080 --> 01:02:46,920
Speaker 1: send you a few skulls, one of a clickitat Indian.

1155
01:02:47,040 --> 01:02:49,640
Speaker 1: You will observe the characteristic flat also put and some

1156
01:02:49,760 --> 01:02:52,680
Speaker 1: quadrupeds and birds. It is rather a perilous business to

1157
01:02:52,680 --> 01:02:55,400
Speaker 1: procure Indian skulls in this country. The natives are so

1158
01:02:55,520 --> 01:02:57,640
Speaker 1: jealous of you that they watch you very closely while

1159
01:02:57,640 --> 01:03:00,600
Speaker 1: you are wandering near their mausoleums. An instant to sanguineous

1160
01:03:00,680 --> 01:03:03,800
Speaker 1: vngeance would fall upon the luckless white who should presume

1161
01:03:03,880 --> 01:03:06,520
Speaker 1: to interfere with the sacred relics. I have succeeded in

1162
01:03:06,560 --> 01:03:08,640
Speaker 1: hooking one, however, such as it is, and no doubt

1163
01:03:08,640 --> 01:03:10,240
Speaker 1: in the course of the winter I shall get more.

1164
01:03:10,440 --> 01:03:12,720
Speaker 1: There's an epidemic raging among them, which carries them off

1165
01:03:12,760 --> 01:03:15,480
Speaker 1: so fast that the cemeteries will soon lack watchers. I

1166
01:03:15,520 --> 01:03:17,320
Speaker 1: don't rejoice in the prospect of the death of the

1167
01:03:17,360 --> 01:03:19,600
Speaker 1: poor creatures, certainly, but then you know, it will be

1168
01:03:19,720 --> 01:03:24,640
Speaker 1: very convenient for my purposes. Yeah, that's pretty bad. They're

1169
01:03:24,720 --> 01:03:29,760
Speaker 1: poor creatures. Yeah, yeah, he's he's treating them just like animals.

1170
01:03:29,800 --> 01:03:31,959
Speaker 1: He's like, oh, well, they're all dying, but that's gonna

1171
01:03:31,960 --> 01:03:34,440
Speaker 1: be good for me. He's treating them like birds. He

1172
01:03:34,520 --> 01:03:37,600
Speaker 1: also he calls himself a white which is like a ghoule,

1173
01:03:37,880 --> 01:03:40,480
Speaker 1: like stealing from a graveyard. So he knows kind of

1174
01:03:40,520 --> 01:03:45,000
Speaker 1: what he's doing, right, Yeah, but it makes sense because

1175
01:03:45,040 --> 01:03:47,840
Speaker 1: he doesn't think of them as people. So it's kind

1176
01:03:47,840 --> 01:03:51,280
Speaker 1: of like we we talk about animals where we're like, yeah,

1177
01:03:51,320 --> 01:03:54,760
Speaker 1: we're kind of we're kind of like they're boogeymen, you know, like,

1178
01:03:55,160 --> 01:03:58,920
Speaker 1: and so he's because he's humanized him them, he could

1179
01:03:59,000 --> 01:04:00,760
Speaker 1: kind of be like, yeah, I'm kind of an I'm

1180
01:04:00,840 --> 01:04:03,680
Speaker 1: kind of a little bit of a boogeyman. Yeah, but

1181
01:04:03,760 --> 01:04:07,000
Speaker 1: they're not people, so it's it doesn't matter. Yeah, that's

1182
01:04:07,160 --> 01:04:11,560
Speaker 1: that's exactly his attitude. Now, obviously, Dave, it was not

1183
01:04:11,760 --> 01:04:14,920
Speaker 1: terribly long before large numbers of people began to consider

1184
01:04:14,920 --> 01:04:17,880
Speaker 1: the mass theft of indigenous human beings remains to be

1185
01:04:18,520 --> 01:04:23,160
Speaker 1: evil um and in the article he writes on this process,

1186
01:04:23,280 --> 01:04:26,440
Speaker 1: Hallie does a good job of summarizing how modern institutions

1187
01:04:26,440 --> 01:04:29,600
Speaker 1: have protected the collection of these stolen skulls, which both

1188
01:04:29,680 --> 01:04:33,200
Speaker 1: Audubon and towns and contributed towards. The skulls mentioned in

1189
01:04:33,200 --> 01:04:35,600
Speaker 1: this letter and others stolen by towns in an Audubond

1190
01:04:35,920 --> 01:04:38,080
Speaker 1: were in the collection of the A n SP until

1191
01:04:38,080 --> 01:04:40,280
Speaker 1: the mid twentieth century, when they were transferred to the

1192
01:04:40,320 --> 01:04:44,120
Speaker 1: University of Pennsylvania's Penn Museum. The institutions that were culpable

1193
01:04:44,240 --> 01:04:47,800
Speaker 1: in the assembly of the Morton collection have not publicly apologized,

1194
01:04:47,840 --> 01:04:49,840
Speaker 1: to my knowledge, to the tribes that the materials were

1195
01:04:49,840 --> 01:04:52,920
Speaker 1: stolen from. Rather, they have passed the buck of responsibility.

1196
01:04:53,160 --> 01:04:57,520
Speaker 1: Pin unsurprisingly considers the collection an exceptional historic resource and

1197
01:04:57,560 --> 01:05:00,720
Speaker 1: has delayed the repatriation of the materials. According to the

1198
01:05:00,800 --> 01:05:04,760
Speaker 1: Native American Graves Project and Repatriation Act. Institutions that take

1199
01:05:04,800 --> 01:05:07,560
Speaker 1: federal funding, as pinned it in two thousand five for

1200
01:05:07,600 --> 01:05:11,479
Speaker 1: the expansion and improvement of the Pin Cranials Database, must

1201
01:05:11,480 --> 01:05:14,720
Speaker 1: repatriot materials with providence at the tribe's request. It is

1202
01:05:14,760 --> 01:05:17,520
Speaker 1: true that some remains from the Morton Correct collection have

1203
01:05:17,640 --> 01:05:20,960
Speaker 1: been repatriated, but nearly thirty years have passed since Nagara

1204
01:05:21,040 --> 01:05:23,160
Speaker 1: was signed into law. PIN is moving at a glacial

1205
01:05:23,400 --> 01:05:26,600
Speaker 1: pace considering the magnitude of the of the infraction, and

1206
01:05:26,600 --> 01:05:29,240
Speaker 1: the institutions that helped to assemble the Racist skull collection

1207
01:05:29,280 --> 01:05:32,320
Speaker 1: are tight lipped. And I have read there's a book

1208
01:05:32,360 --> 01:05:36,280
Speaker 1: I found about the bone trade in in Stolen Bones

1209
01:05:36,960 --> 01:05:41,200
Speaker 1: UM called Plundered Skulls and Stolen Spirits by Chip cole Well,

1210
01:05:41,560 --> 01:05:44,840
Speaker 1: who's like doing part of his job is to like

1211
01:05:45,120 --> 01:05:50,040
Speaker 1: sit in a museum and put together groups of bones

1212
01:05:50,080 --> 01:05:53,440
Speaker 1: to send back to the tribes they were stolen from UM.

1213
01:05:53,480 --> 01:05:56,200
Speaker 1: And there's always like he describes in like kind of

1214
01:05:56,240 --> 01:05:59,560
Speaker 1: in very stirring detail, like what what this process is

1215
01:05:59,600 --> 01:06:01,280
Speaker 1: like because the kind of a ritual element to it,

1216
01:06:01,320 --> 01:06:04,520
Speaker 1: because it's essentially kind of a funereal, Right, it's this

1217
01:06:04,560 --> 01:06:09,440
Speaker 1: whole is this whole thing. It is proceeding slowly now, um,

1218
01:06:09,480 --> 01:06:12,680
Speaker 1: but it's kind of worth noting how much work different

1219
01:06:12,720 --> 01:06:15,560
Speaker 1: college is put into like not doing this. Yeah, they're

1220
01:06:15,560 --> 01:06:19,640
Speaker 1: really dragging ass something because they were bones. Yeah, like

1221
01:06:19,680 --> 01:06:22,520
Speaker 1: what what is? Why do they need the goddamn bones?

1222
01:06:23,400 --> 01:06:26,919
Speaker 1: How what use could they possibly have now if not

1223
01:06:27,040 --> 01:06:30,240
Speaker 1: just shame where they're like, we don't want to admit

1224
01:06:30,320 --> 01:06:32,320
Speaker 1: that we have all these bones. We don't want to

1225
01:06:32,360 --> 01:06:36,000
Speaker 1: give them up, you know, just give back the bones.

1226
01:06:35,440 --> 01:06:39,600
Speaker 1: There's only one acceptable way to get a skull, and

1227
01:06:39,640 --> 01:06:43,200
Speaker 1: it is to ask the person, can I have your skull?

1228
01:06:43,360 --> 01:06:46,520
Speaker 1: If you die before me, and then you put it,

1229
01:06:46,560 --> 01:06:49,040
Speaker 1: you write it down, you have it written down, and

1230
01:06:49,080 --> 01:06:51,600
Speaker 1: then you get a skull. And I'm sorry that if

1231
01:06:51,640 --> 01:06:55,800
Speaker 1: that sounds inconvenient to all you skull collectors, I don't

1232
01:06:55,840 --> 01:06:57,560
Speaker 1: know what to tell you. That's how. That's the only

1233
01:06:57,560 --> 01:06:59,440
Speaker 1: way to get a skull. I don't. I feel like

1234
01:06:59,480 --> 01:07:03,280
Speaker 1: winning them in battle is okay? Yeah, yeah, women in battle.

1235
01:07:03,320 --> 01:07:05,440
Speaker 1: If you take a skull in battle, you get to

1236
01:07:05,560 --> 01:07:10,560
Speaker 1: keep it. Um. Those are the two ways. Um. But

1237
01:07:10,560 --> 01:07:12,439
Speaker 1: but it's gotta be like it's gotta be like hand

1238
01:07:12,440 --> 01:07:14,680
Speaker 1: to hand, you know, you can't be like shooting people

1239
01:07:14,960 --> 01:07:17,440
Speaker 1: for the skulls. You've gotta be like fist fighting. If

1240
01:07:17,440 --> 01:07:19,560
Speaker 1: you fist fight a dude and take his skull, you

1241
01:07:19,560 --> 01:07:21,880
Speaker 1: get to keep it. Yeah, and you better. You got

1242
01:07:21,880 --> 01:07:23,480
Speaker 1: to take the skull. You're so you gotta take that

1243
01:07:23,520 --> 01:07:26,720
Speaker 1: skull yourself. That's on you. That's you. Yeah, that is

1244
01:07:26,760 --> 01:07:30,200
Speaker 1: a way to earn a skull. But pretty two ways,

1245
01:07:30,920 --> 01:07:34,200
Speaker 1: two ways, yeah, although I do feel like you'd want

1246
01:07:34,240 --> 01:07:39,440
Speaker 1: to because it's two it's two very different skulls, right, Like, uh,

1247
01:07:39,480 --> 01:07:41,920
Speaker 1: if I have a skull that I just politely asked for,

1248
01:07:42,320 --> 01:07:45,600
Speaker 1: I don't want to misrepresent how I got that skull

1249
01:07:47,480 --> 01:07:50,439
Speaker 1: because then I feel like a fraud. But yeah, that's

1250
01:07:50,520 --> 01:07:54,800
Speaker 1: that's it. Yeah. So these give give the bone back,

1251
01:07:55,120 --> 01:07:58,439
Speaker 1: Give the bones back, that's it, get back, get back. Yeah,

1252
01:07:58,480 --> 01:08:01,480
Speaker 1: it's not hard. Yeah. So Audubon Society gets formed in

1253
01:08:01,560 --> 01:08:05,760
Speaker 1: eighteen fifty one, or yeah, sorry, the Audubon Society gets

1254
01:08:05,840 --> 01:08:09,520
Speaker 1: formed years after John James Audubon dies in eighteen fifty one.

1255
01:08:10,160 --> 01:08:13,520
Speaker 1: M And from a purely scientific standpoint, like obviously he

1256
01:08:13,960 --> 01:08:18,080
Speaker 1: did a lot for bird watching. Um, and you know,

1257
01:08:18,439 --> 01:08:21,040
Speaker 1: for a while they try to ignore this. There's biographies

1258
01:08:21,040 --> 01:08:23,639
Speaker 1: published that really whitewash all the racism and skull stealing.

1259
01:08:24,760 --> 01:08:28,080
Speaker 1: The Audubon society really didn't start to grapple with it

1260
01:08:28,200 --> 01:08:34,400
Speaker 1: in a major open way until May. Uh can you

1261
01:08:34,479 --> 01:08:37,400
Speaker 1: guys why? Yeah? And actually a big part is remember

1262
01:08:37,400 --> 01:08:40,280
Speaker 1: when that that black birdwatcher in New York got like

1263
01:08:40,360 --> 01:08:42,559
Speaker 1: accosted by a white woman who like called the police

1264
01:08:42,600 --> 01:08:45,320
Speaker 1: on him. After that was like a big inciting incident

1265
01:08:45,400 --> 01:08:48,200
Speaker 1: in the Audubon society being like, we should probably deal,

1266
01:08:48,360 --> 01:08:53,880
Speaker 1: we'd probably acknowledge some of this. Man, Just I don't

1267
01:08:53,880 --> 01:08:56,080
Speaker 1: think it's another thing. It's like returning the bones. It's like,

1268
01:08:56,560 --> 01:09:01,880
Speaker 1: just acknowledge it. Like it's yeah, if your ancestors or

1269
01:09:02,000 --> 01:09:06,439
Speaker 1: you're like everything was built upon fucking slavery and racism

1270
01:09:06,520 --> 01:09:09,840
Speaker 1: in this country, it's not gonna shock anybody. It's like

1271
01:09:09,920 --> 01:09:12,679
Speaker 1: when Ben Affleck like paid to have that PBS show

1272
01:09:13,760 --> 01:09:17,080
Speaker 1: ignore that he was like the descendant of slave owners,

1273
01:09:17,479 --> 01:09:20,880
Speaker 1: and it's like, did you think, like you're the only one,

1274
01:09:21,280 --> 01:09:24,160
Speaker 1: But it's we're built upon shame and we have to

1275
01:09:24,200 --> 01:09:29,000
Speaker 1: own it because that's the only thing you can do, right. Yeah, Yeah,

1276
01:09:29,320 --> 01:09:31,880
Speaker 1: it would have ridiculous, it would have been like and

1277
01:09:31,960 --> 01:09:34,439
Speaker 1: it's like, especially with the Autumn Society. It's a good

1278
01:09:34,479 --> 01:09:37,599
Speaker 1: comparison because like they were founded after his death. It's

1279
01:09:37,640 --> 01:09:41,200
Speaker 1: not like the Audubon Society is like personally responsible for

1280
01:09:41,280 --> 01:09:43,600
Speaker 1: John James Audubon, since they just like thought he was

1281
01:09:43,640 --> 01:09:46,719
Speaker 1: a good dude to name themselves at. You could change

1282
01:09:46,800 --> 01:09:49,920
Speaker 1: the name and we'd be like, Okay, well, yeah, I

1283
01:09:49,960 --> 01:09:54,640
Speaker 1: guess bird watching probably isn't complicit in racism much beyond that, right,

1284
01:09:54,760 --> 01:09:57,160
Speaker 1: it'd be wild if you looked into and you're like, oh,

1285
01:09:57,280 --> 01:10:00,799
Speaker 1: I guess they're also all racists, Like the the Audubon

1286
01:10:01,000 --> 01:10:04,679
Speaker 1: Society is also like a white supremacy society. That would

1287
01:10:04,720 --> 01:10:07,040
Speaker 1: be one thing, But no, they're just fucking bird watchers

1288
01:10:07,320 --> 01:10:11,200
Speaker 1: who named their thing after some racist guy, and it's there.

1289
01:10:11,560 --> 01:10:14,000
Speaker 1: I recommend the article and Audubon dot org that I've

1290
01:10:14,040 --> 01:10:16,599
Speaker 1: quoted from by Gregory Noble, which is like he writes

1291
01:10:16,680 --> 01:10:19,639
Speaker 1: this right after that altercation, where like the woman tries

1292
01:10:19,680 --> 01:10:23,080
Speaker 1: to have cops kill a blackbird watcher. Like it's probably

1293
01:10:23,120 --> 01:10:25,400
Speaker 1: the best thing they've done in terms of like pivoting

1294
01:10:25,479 --> 01:10:28,760
Speaker 1: to acknowledging the problematic past. I assume there's a lot

1295
01:10:28,800 --> 01:10:30,640
Speaker 1: more that could be done. Again, if you want to

1296
01:10:30,680 --> 01:10:32,800
Speaker 1: read the articles will list of sources you can get

1297
01:10:32,840 --> 01:10:35,599
Speaker 1: a better idea of like some of the things people

1298
01:10:35,640 --> 01:10:39,400
Speaker 1: are asking and pushing. Um. But yeah, that's the story.

1299
01:10:39,760 --> 01:10:43,960
Speaker 1: That's a hell of a story. Yep. Thanks thanks for

1300
01:10:44,200 --> 01:10:50,599
Speaker 1: telling me about it. I'm glad I heard about it. Yeah,

1301
01:10:51,040 --> 01:10:56,920
Speaker 1: I mean it's yeah, it's it's you know again what

1302
01:10:57,040 --> 01:10:59,800
Speaker 1: I said it was. It's shocking, but not because it's like,

1303
01:11:00,040 --> 01:11:05,000
Speaker 1: of course every everything is fucking built upon this ship. Uh,

1304
01:11:05,479 --> 01:11:08,240
Speaker 1: it's more it's like almost more surprising when it's not

1305
01:11:10,040 --> 01:11:14,920
Speaker 1: it's fucked up. This guy sucks, yea, I will. I'm

1306
01:11:14,960 --> 01:11:18,200
Speaker 1: gonna go steal his skull. Yeah, look, I do feel

1307
01:11:18,280 --> 01:11:21,360
Speaker 1: that's something we can do. Dave find where he's buried

1308
01:11:21,479 --> 01:11:24,880
Speaker 1: and take his bones. Yeah I think I think there's

1309
01:11:25,439 --> 01:11:28,360
Speaker 1: no shame in that, right, and stealing this guy's bones

1310
01:11:28,840 --> 01:11:31,559
Speaker 1: and then like putting in a contraption and drawing pictures

1311
01:11:31,640 --> 01:11:34,479
Speaker 1: of it. Yeah, put it in a contraption, but also

1312
01:11:34,520 --> 01:11:36,439
Speaker 1: like making like a flat Stanley where we just like

1313
01:11:36,560 --> 01:11:39,599
Speaker 1: mail it around, like you never know when you're gonna

1314
01:11:39,640 --> 01:11:41,519
Speaker 1: get this guy's fucking bones, but when you get him,

1315
01:11:41,520 --> 01:11:43,479
Speaker 1: you can do whatever with them, you know, right, It's

1316
01:11:43,560 --> 01:11:47,040
Speaker 1: like everybody in America has a chance of getting This

1317
01:11:47,160 --> 01:11:50,880
Speaker 1: guy's getting bones. It's like cherry duty or something where

1318
01:11:50,880 --> 01:11:54,439
Speaker 1: you getta go out this weekend. Now I got the

1319
01:11:54,479 --> 01:11:57,920
Speaker 1: bones this week right, I gotta I gotta take pictures

1320
01:11:58,000 --> 01:12:00,720
Speaker 1: of it and figure out who to send it to. Yeah,

1321
01:12:01,240 --> 01:12:04,519
Speaker 1: oh god, what that's man. We should do that with

1322
01:12:04,600 --> 01:12:08,400
Speaker 1: all the problematic people. Yes, just just pass their bones

1323
01:12:08,520 --> 01:12:12,960
Speaker 1: around for whatever, for whatever, for whatever you feel like

1324
01:12:13,080 --> 01:12:17,559
Speaker 1: doing with those bones. My friend got George Washington's bones,

1325
01:12:17,560 --> 01:12:19,360
Speaker 1: We're gonna do blow off his skull. You want to

1326
01:12:19,400 --> 01:12:23,000
Speaker 1: come over for a party, like absolutely, Yeah, it sounds dope.

1327
01:12:23,479 --> 01:12:27,559
Speaker 1: I would do so much. I would die doing cocaine

1328
01:12:27,600 --> 01:12:31,640
Speaker 1: off with George Washington bones. You've never done coke? If

1329
01:12:31,640 --> 01:12:34,640
Speaker 1: you haven't done coke off of the stolen skull of

1330
01:12:34,720 --> 01:12:39,160
Speaker 1: George Washington. Yeah, oh yeah, let's do that right now.

1331
01:12:39,479 --> 01:12:44,320
Speaker 1: You're right, Dave, let's go Grave Robin Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah,

1332
01:12:44,360 --> 01:12:48,000
Speaker 1: any bones, yeah, any bones? Suck it? Wait no, no, no, no, Dave,

1333
01:12:48,040 --> 01:12:55,320
Speaker 1: that's what got everyone into day, damn it. Alright, bones,

1334
01:12:55,520 --> 01:12:58,639
Speaker 1: you gotta plug anything day. I don't know, man, um,

1335
01:12:59,240 --> 01:13:03,200
Speaker 1: I never plug my Twitter at movie hool again, as

1336
01:13:03,280 --> 01:13:06,519
Speaker 1: mentioned I have with Tom Or I'm in a podcast network,

1337
01:13:06,920 --> 01:13:09,920
Speaker 1: and I'm the head writer over at the what's it called,

1338
01:13:10,040 --> 01:13:13,640
Speaker 1: someone who's so check all those things out, which I

1339
01:13:13,720 --> 01:13:16,280
Speaker 1: feel like most people know about most of that stuff.

1340
01:13:16,360 --> 01:13:21,920
Speaker 1: So yeah, and grave Rob, but only bad people, Only

1341
01:13:22,000 --> 01:13:29,120
Speaker 1: bad people steal the corpses of racists, all right,