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Speaker 1: This is straight fire with Jason McIntyre. What is up, everybody,

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Speaker 1: It's me Jason McIntyre, Straight fighter for Thursday June. Uh,

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Speaker 1: big big night in basketball ahead slow night last night.

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Speaker 1: I will say there was more action in the pickup

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Speaker 1: basketball game I played in Wednesday afternoon than there was

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Speaker 1: in Sons Nuggets game. To what a blood bath that was.

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Speaker 1: Denver gets thumped by as Sons have now won four

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Speaker 1: straight games, the two Lakers and the two um over

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Speaker 1: the Nuggets, all by thirteen or more points. Here's a

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Speaker 1: stat for you. Chris Paul in two games against Denver

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Speaker 1: assists one turnover. I mean, I wrote this for Fox

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Speaker 1: sports dot com that the back court, if you thought

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Speaker 1: Damon c J had an advantage over Compozzo and rivers

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Speaker 1: like Chris Paul and Devin Booker, is an upgrade from

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Speaker 1: Damon c J. And it's just been an annihilation. This

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Speaker 1: game wasn't even close in the second half. Um, it's

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Speaker 1: a snoozer. I I think this could be a sweep.

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Speaker 1: I I had said, uh, Sons in five and maybe

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Speaker 1: it goes five. I I just I don't see any

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Speaker 1: path to winning for the Nuggets. Frankly, I don't even

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Speaker 1: care about the series or last night's game. I think

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Speaker 1: you're gonna love the interview we have for you today

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Speaker 1: with Henry Abbott. He's a fascinating story. I'm sure a

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Speaker 1: lot of you who know the NBA are aware of

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Speaker 1: Henry Abbott. If you haven't heard of him, you're a

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Speaker 1: football fan, whatever. He's an interesting character. This guy started

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Speaker 1: a website that was bought by ESPN. He was there

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Speaker 1: for ten years. He left and on his way out

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Speaker 1: the door, he said, Hey, you guys aren't really going

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Speaker 1: to use true hoop the website I created and sold

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Speaker 1: to you? Can I have it back? And he got

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Speaker 1: it back on the way out. Uh. Really interesting stuff.

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Speaker 1: We cover it all um. His testy relationship with Bill Simmons.

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Speaker 1: He wrote one of the more memorable pieces I've read

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Speaker 1: in sports media in the last oh, I don't know,

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Speaker 1: six months, let's say a year, um, about Bill Simmons

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Speaker 1: and the title of it is do I get to

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Speaker 1: speak now? It's been like ten minutes And he wrote

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Speaker 1: it about Bill Simmons um and his experiences with him

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Speaker 1: at ESPN. It is a pretty ruthless takedown. We get

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Speaker 1: into NBA owners, um, you know, listen, Henry Abbott is

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Speaker 1: an interesting guy, and we try to do that on

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Speaker 1: this podcast. We don't just want former players. They're good

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Speaker 1: former coaches, they're good media guys, they're awesome, UM, fire starters.

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Speaker 1: I love them all. But Abbott and I and I've

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Speaker 1: known the guy. I knew him at least back in

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Speaker 1: when I had started a blog, and you know, we

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Speaker 1: had met at a blog event. And this guy is

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Speaker 1: pretty sharp and it's pretty clear he has some friends

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Speaker 1: in high places. He's doing some interesting investigative stuff on

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Speaker 1: owners in the NBA, and you know, when you ruffle

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Speaker 1: feathers of billionaires, there can be blowback. UM, So I

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Speaker 1: think you're gonna like the interview. It's a little longer

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Speaker 1: than normal, UM, but he's an interesting character and there's

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Speaker 1: a lot of interesting stuff in there. And I just

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Speaker 1: want you guys to listen to UM an entrepreneurial angle

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Speaker 1: to sports, because you know, I I got I went

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Speaker 1: to college and I came out thinking, all right, I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna go to college. I'm gonna study like journalism, and

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Speaker 1: when I come out, ultimately my dream job and I

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Speaker 1: swear I said this was I want to cover the Lakers, right,

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Speaker 1: And I wanna, UM have Laker season tickets. Also, I

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Speaker 1: had no idea. I thought, like, you could be a

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Speaker 1: baller being like a journalist, and uh, obviously I was

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Speaker 1: absolutely clueless. And I've I've told this story many times.

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Speaker 1: I when I met my current wife, UM, current when

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Speaker 1: I'm at my wife, UM, I was at a newspaper

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Speaker 1: and I was making I think like twenty two thousand,

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Speaker 1: maybe twenty three, and I quickly realized like whoa, yeah,

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Speaker 1: this is not gonna cut it, and UM, I decided

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Speaker 1: to kind of branch out on my own. And I

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Speaker 1: mean I was able to get a higher paying job

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Speaker 1: in a magazine in New York City, and while doing that,

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Speaker 1: that's when I created the website. And YadA, YadA, YadA.

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Speaker 1: Fifteen years later, I'm in Los Angeles, UM. And you know,

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Speaker 1: the path that Henry took is also interesting, UM. And

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Speaker 1: I just want you guys to listen to it, because

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Speaker 1: this is one of these opportunities now in where we're

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Speaker 1: coming out of a crazy pandemic, there's a lot of

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Speaker 1: opportunities for growth and trying new things. UM. I would

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Speaker 1: just say, like, you know, listen to how he framed it. UM.

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Speaker 1: And you know, obviously My story has been told plenty,

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Speaker 1: but I also spoke to yesterday on the phone, Um,

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Speaker 1: one of the guys that I went in on this

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Speaker 1: soccer team with, and I don't I haven't really talked

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Speaker 1: about it on the podcast, but I put it on

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Speaker 1: my Instagram and you guys, you know it's on my

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Speaker 1: Twitter feed or whatever I put on Facebook. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: we invested in a soccer team in Mexico in uh

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Speaker 1: La Liga. And the relationship that I built with the

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Speaker 1: guy who ultimately was the driving force behind it all

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Speaker 1: Um was over several years and I don't want to

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Speaker 1: go too much into it, but he, you know, he

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Speaker 1: told me about his story of how he met the

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Speaker 1: partner m who is the big money guy, one of

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Speaker 1: the big money guys behind us investing in the soccer team,

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Speaker 1: and almost all the stories. And you know, if you

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Speaker 1: go to Harvard Business School, not that I did, but

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Speaker 1: you can read plenty out of Harvard Business School about

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Speaker 1: the best way to start a business is when you're

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Speaker 1: already working, you've learned what you want to do from

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Speaker 1: certain people. Then you start the business, but you don't

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Speaker 1: leave instantly because it's a super risk if you leave instantly.

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Speaker 1: In you to start the business. I mean, you've got

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Speaker 1: nothing the smart movies to get all your ducts in

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Speaker 1: a row, line it up, get it underway, then tell

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Speaker 1: your employer, oh yeah, I'm doing this. I'm out. That's

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Speaker 1: kind of what I did with the big lead. Um.

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Speaker 1: I was working at US Weekly magazine. I was doing

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Speaker 1: it on the side anonymously, and when the Sight had

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Speaker 1: been around for I don't know a year, built up traffic,

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Speaker 1: I knew I could had something cooking. That's when I left.

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Speaker 1: It would have been idiotic of me to quit my

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Speaker 1: job to try the website. UM. You know that's super

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Speaker 1: high risk, a little too rich for my blood. But

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Speaker 1: at any rate, I think you're gonna like this talk

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Speaker 1: um with Henry Abbott. Enjoy it. Henry Abbott of True

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Speaker 1: Who Jason likes to think he knows everything when it

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Speaker 1: comes to sports. I know what sports stands want, but

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Speaker 1: for everything he doesn't. He knows a guy who does.

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Speaker 1: Let's just say I know a guy who knows a

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Speaker 1: guy who knows another guy. All right, let's welcome into

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Speaker 1: straight five. Are a big time NBA guy. He's been

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Speaker 1: an NBA digital guy for fifteen years, maybe twenty. Uh.

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Speaker 1: He was at ESPN. He started True Hoop and I

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Speaker 1: like to brag that, Oh, I sold my website, you know,

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Speaker 1: like I'm one of the few guys who did. He

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Speaker 1: beat me to the punch selling True Hoop to ESPN.

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Speaker 1: Henry Abbott, Henry, how are you man? Great? How are

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Speaker 1: you doing, Jason? I'm excellent. You know. The NBA playoffs

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Speaker 1: are fun. But you know, we'd interview a lot of

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Speaker 1: NBA voices, whether it's former players, former coaches, writers. But

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Speaker 1: you were unique because you actually started like an NBA

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Speaker 1: destination back on internet one point. Oh, and you know

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Speaker 1: the millennials are gonna be like, what the hell's internet

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Speaker 1: one point? You know, I was in elementary school, you know. Um,

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Speaker 1: but you know I just want to start here. You

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Speaker 1: started True Hoop and how did it kind of blossom

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Speaker 1: and get scooped up by ESPN? It was it was

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Speaker 1: on a weird ride from like day one. I don't

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Speaker 1: part part of the answer is magic. Um. I did

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Speaker 1: do a little bit of studying. I read all the books.

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Speaker 1: Like at that time it was like the Clue train

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Speaker 1: Man of Esto. I don't know if you ever read

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Speaker 1: that one. Um Rebecca Blood's um Internet hand but they're

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Speaker 1: all these books on kind of like what works on

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Speaker 1: the Internet. And I was working writing for magazines and

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Speaker 1: other web stuff, and I realized that this little free

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Speaker 1: blog I had was just more vibrant, more action, more feedback,

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Speaker 1: more going on. It just seemed like the way the

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Speaker 1: world was headed. So I kind of learned about it,

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Speaker 1: and then I just decided to jump in with both feet, um,

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Speaker 1: which was crazy because we had a baby and all

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Speaker 1: this stuff, but uh, and then I started it, um

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Speaker 1: and I'm not even kidding, Like within six weeks, within

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Speaker 1: a day, I was hearing from like NBA, g M

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Speaker 1: S and stuff. Within a wow, month, it won an

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Speaker 1: award from Forbes, and like the guy called me, I'm like,

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Speaker 1: are you sure some only it just like a month,

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Speaker 1: It's like no, no no, no, you're gonna get this best

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Speaker 1: of the Level award. And and then within I don't know,

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Speaker 1: six months, like literally the Coloradi said Google, and I'm like,

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Speaker 1: this is probably one of those like things where they

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Speaker 1: try to sell you a service to increase your Google

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Speaker 1: right now, but it was really Google, and they were like, hey,

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Speaker 1: can you come in, Like we're confused about how your

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Speaker 1: traffics growing so fast and I'm like, you're confused, Like nice,

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Speaker 1: Wow did you tell them I read books about how

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Speaker 1: to do this? Um no, wait, I want to back

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Speaker 1: up a little. When you started the site, it was

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Speaker 1: just you were you in like a group of friends.

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Speaker 1: I convinced my buddy to give me some money and

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Speaker 1: and and with that we hired like a nice designer

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Speaker 1: and that kind of stuff. But uh, but yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: pretty much just me. I was always seeking other people

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Speaker 1: to contribute, and often did. There were a bunch of

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Speaker 1: a bunch of great people contributed to Troop through the years.

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Speaker 1: But but that's how it started. So this buddy you

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Speaker 1: asked for money, I'm assuming he got equity in true hoop. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So basically, when eventually ESPN wanted to buy it, I

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Speaker 1: went to my buddy and I was like, how much

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Speaker 1: money do you want? And he was like, I don't

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Speaker 1: want to sell it? Like could you would be good?

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Speaker 1: So he kindly he kindly did, like name and number.

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Speaker 1: He's a little salty about it to this day, but

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Speaker 1: he thought he could have got more. You know what,

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Speaker 1: he's a very nice guy. We're very good friends, and

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Speaker 1: he just wanted to work together. He wanted to just

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Speaker 1: keep doing it. He wanted to be not part of

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Speaker 1: a big core operation, you know, he wanted to the

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Speaker 1: independent pirates fighting the world. Yeah. But eventually, you know,

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Speaker 1: the guy who's grinding away you, you're like, hey man,

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Speaker 1: it would be nice to cash out a little bit here, right,

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Speaker 1: It's not the worst thing, you know, Yeah, certainly not.

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Speaker 1: All right, So you start true hoop it pops, you

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Speaker 1: go to ESPN. You're crushing it. Um. And I think

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Speaker 1: at that point is when the super Team's kind of started,

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Speaker 1: right like two thousand Lebron you know, going to the

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Speaker 1: heat Kevin Garnett. That's about like the sweet spot, right, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it was really the decision was really the day that

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Speaker 1: the NBA changed in that way. So that was two thousand, right, Um,

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Speaker 1: Is that right? I got the ESPN two seven, Um,

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Speaker 1: so yeah, a few years in and I remember being

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Speaker 1: just blown away that night, the night of the decision,

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Speaker 1: I was up late and I'm seeing all the comment

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Speaker 1: comments for a pretty new thing on ESPN A comment

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Speaker 1: that time and comments. It was shocking. That was the

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Speaker 1: first place I saw this, like in three sort of

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Speaker 1: violent part of America that now is like you know,

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Speaker 1: on CNN every day, right, But like it was something

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Speaker 1: for me. It's sort of came alive that night. I

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Speaker 1: was like, wow, these this isn't just like hey, I'm

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Speaker 1: bumping about my team losing a good player. This is

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Speaker 1: something else. Yeah, it's weird because you know, all it

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Speaker 1: was is, hey, Lebron was drafted by Cleveland, he gave them,

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Speaker 1: what seven eight years of his life, and he decided,

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Speaker 1: I think I'm gonna move on. I'm just curious when

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Speaker 1: you were remembering those comments. It was more than just

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Speaker 1: Cleveland fans, right, it was basketball fans everywhere. Actually, someone

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Speaker 1: ended up coming up with like some data with like

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Speaker 1: a map of where people hated Lebron most that summer,

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Speaker 1: and it was all the markets that wanted him, right.

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Speaker 1: It was like New York thought they were gonna get him,

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Speaker 1: and so they hated him in New York, and Chicago

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Speaker 1: thought they were gonna get so they hated him in

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Speaker 1: Chicago and Cleveland and l a um. Yeah. Sports fans

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Speaker 1: are you know, the reason you and I have jobs.

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Speaker 1: And they're wonderful, but they're also like incredibly selfish, right,

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Speaker 1: like they're not going to worry about how the system

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Speaker 1: should work or what's fair. They're gonna worry about like

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Speaker 1: did I win today? And that's the end of the analysis, right,

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Speaker 1: they lost in a bunch of friends New York, like

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Speaker 1: uh so. One of the most sort of hateful things

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Speaker 1: that came out of it was a book by Scott

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Speaker 1: rob called The Horror of Akron. Oh that guy's crazy, right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: he's great. I mean, he's brilliant and he he was

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Speaker 1: was he an Esquire writer or something? Yeah, and he's

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Speaker 1: kind of a buddy. But like, but I want to

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Speaker 1: give you him no, no, no, I totally agree crazy.

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Speaker 1: And the project I'm talking about was where he and

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Speaker 1: I argued almost to the point of violence on camera.

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Speaker 1: But I needed a place to record it. And a

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Speaker 1: friend of mine owns like a very swanky bar in Brooklyn,

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Speaker 1: and and I was like, Hey, is there any chance,

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Speaker 1: like while it's closed during the day, we could use

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Speaker 1: this beautiful, swanky bar to shoot this thing. And he

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Speaker 1: was kind of like, like, what's it for. And I'm like, basically,

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Speaker 1: it's to interview this guy who wrote the book. But

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Speaker 1: he's like, oh fuck yeah that yeah, the whole place

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Speaker 1: is available to you, Lebron. I'm wondering, like, again, this

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Speaker 1: is a loaded question. But Henry, like, you know, Lebron's

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Speaker 1: out of the playoffs, He's probably still like the second

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Speaker 1: or third most talked about player in the in sports

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Speaker 1: right now, maybe the NBA. UM do you still think

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Speaker 1: a lot of these people when they do the whole

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Speaker 1: Jordan Lebron thing, do you think they still go back

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Speaker 1: to the decision and that's the reason he'll never be

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Speaker 1: better than Jordan or the best player in the league.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it did a lot. He I mean, it's

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Speaker 1: sort of sad to think of all this is so calculating,

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Speaker 1: probably for most sports fans. I kind of enjoy it.

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Speaker 1: But you know, his his move to Miami didn't affect

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Speaker 1: his standing whatsoever with black fans. Right, it was white

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Speaker 1: people who were upset. We could unpack that for a

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Speaker 1: week if you want, I'm happy to. But but in

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Speaker 1: the meantime, like going back to Cleveland was specifically a

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Speaker 1: strategy to heal that. Right. It was kind of like,

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Speaker 1: you know, it's like it's like going back to your

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Speaker 1: first wife after you leave her for the hot young

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Speaker 1: water or whatever. Right, Like, like the idea was that

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Speaker 1: it kind of would patch things up with like these

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Speaker 1: people who felt like he'd upset the order of things

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Speaker 1: or whatever. And um, I think it kind of worked,

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Speaker 1: you know that. I think it freed him to be

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Speaker 1: considered as like an okay guy and then he won

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Speaker 1: that amazing championship with a pretty bad roster, and um

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Speaker 1: so I think that he kind of fixed a lot

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Speaker 1: of that. Um. I think there are a hundred reasons people,

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Speaker 1: um just have it in for Lebron. Mostly he's just bigger,

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Speaker 1: strong not now most of his curious just very hard

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Speaker 1: to sympathize with. He's never the underdog. He's bigger, stronger, faster,

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Speaker 1: and you know, it just crushes everybody and it's not

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Speaker 1: that fun to root for Goliath. Yeah, how much of this,

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Speaker 1: uh do you think has to do with uh? A

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Speaker 1: journalists who grew up in the nineties, you know, they

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Speaker 1: were teenagers. Maybe it got been and gotten in college

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Speaker 1: and they were a Jordan was the biggest thing ever.

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Speaker 1: And you know, we know with movies and music that

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Speaker 1: you really love what you saw when you were you know,

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Speaker 1: one of these impressionable teenagers and that stix with you forever.

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Speaker 1: This whole Joy and Lebron thing, I feel like a

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Speaker 1: lot of people are just clinging to the memory of

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Speaker 1: Lebron from the nineties when they were young, and that's

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Speaker 1: why nobody will ever pass Jordan's when Henry you are

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Speaker 1: a big numbers guy, you know, all the data points

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Speaker 1: to Lebron being the greatest player ever. Yeah, you just

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Speaker 1: I mean, there's so many ways to make this argument.

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Speaker 1: One of them is like, who did Michael Jordan ever

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Speaker 1: face who was like a hundred pounds heavier and just

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Speaker 1: as fast and way taller, Like it's a fucking problem.

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Speaker 1: There's a reason Lebron keeps Winny Championships, right, Like, um, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I you know. And it was a different time in

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Speaker 1: the sense that like my friend Jack McCallum, who lives

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Speaker 1: not so far from here, you know, went to interview

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Speaker 1: Michael Jordan's early in his career and there was a

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Speaker 1: little child there who appeared to be Michael Jordan's son.

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Speaker 1: And this wasn't a story, this wasn't known, and so

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Speaker 1: Jack had this kind of crisis of like what do

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Speaker 1: I do about this? Right? And the point is like

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Speaker 1: Michael Jordan's life was was lived in secret because a

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Speaker 1: very short list of people, um got to decide what

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Speaker 1: was public, right, like the exacts, some TV exacts, that's it.

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Speaker 1: Lebron grew up where you know, if he was rude

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Speaker 1: someone in a restaurant, the whole world would know that night, right.

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Speaker 1: And if Michael Jordans had had the kind of scrutiny

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Speaker 1: that Lebron did, like oh my god, like he was

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Speaker 1: you know, he's he's really good a basketball, but he's

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Speaker 1: an asshole. He's like a big time assholes asshole and like,

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Speaker 1: you know, make incredible comments about your wife, you know,

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Speaker 1: this kind of stuff, right, Um, And I think that that,

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Speaker 1: you know, he just people. I think that people from

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Speaker 1: a TV era who like to have their heroes like

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Speaker 1: through a little bit of gauze, not see too much

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Speaker 1: reality about them. And that's not where we live anymore. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's it's funny everybody. Oh he swept the Pistons. Let's

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Speaker 1: not forget what the Pistons did to him the three

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Speaker 1: years prior. At anyway, we've done enough Jordan's Lebron. We

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Speaker 1: could do an hour on that. I am curious. Let's

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Speaker 1: spin it forward to um, you know, these playoffs and

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Speaker 1: it's again the super team era is is really taking over.

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Speaker 1: I think it's been good for the league, but I

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Speaker 1: don't And I thought the Nets would get pushed and

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Speaker 1: they're up to oh on the Bucks and they stomped

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Speaker 1: them badly in Game two. It does seem like they're

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Speaker 1: gonna probably win the championship. I don't know, Henry, do

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Speaker 1: you think this super team stuff is good for the league?

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Speaker 1: Because you know, essentially wherever Kevin Durant has gone the

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Speaker 1: last five years, they've absolutely eviscerated everyone. Um, you remove

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Speaker 1: obviously the title the Raptors one when he got injured. Um,

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Speaker 1: I think you're with me and that the Warriors win

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Speaker 1: that if Katie's healthy, and then of course he was

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Speaker 1: out last year. But I don't know, super teams, where

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Speaker 1: are you on that? Well? I guess I can see

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Speaker 1: the downside of it, right It seems a little crazy. Um,

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Speaker 1: it seems a little like probably there's a better way

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Speaker 1: to assemble a championship team than like, you know, the

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Speaker 1: best players in the world has been like, hey, do

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Speaker 1: you want to come? Do you want to do this?

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Speaker 1: It was a little, um, a little haphazard, I guess.

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Speaker 1: On the other hand, like is evidently better than whatever

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Speaker 1: crap they were doing before, right, Like, like you know,

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Speaker 1: and we we tend to just like leave in the

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Speaker 1: back room whatever happened. However, like the Mavericks were run

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Speaker 1: in two thousand five, or or the Knicks my whole

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Speaker 1: life whatever, these teams are very poorly run, right, and

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Speaker 1: and their particularly badly run in the manner of like

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Speaker 1: earning the trust of the best players, right, Like nobody

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Speaker 1: nobody doesn't play for James Dolan. He's earned that, right,

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Speaker 1: Like it's like he's a terrible person to work for.

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Speaker 1: And so if this solves that, right, if if you're saying, like, hey,

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Speaker 1: I'm Kyrie Irving, I'm gonna trust Kevin Durant more than

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Speaker 1: I trust any billionaire, Like, well, you know it's on

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Speaker 1: the billionaire earn that back. And I don't like their chances, right,

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Speaker 1: I don't think they're gonna I don't think I don't

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Speaker 1: think the Bus family's gonna outperform Kyrie Irving, Like I

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Speaker 1: don't think that how the how it goes. Yeah, And

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Speaker 1: it's funny you say that because people want to get

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Speaker 1: on Kevin Durant's case for leaving Okay. See you know

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Speaker 1: he was in Okay. See he was there when the

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Speaker 1: GM traded James Harden, who would become a future m VP.

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Speaker 1: Like why should Durant let some GM determine his legacy

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Speaker 1: and what he ends up doing in his career. I'm

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Speaker 1: all four of these guys leaving. You know, Bradley Beale

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Speaker 1: wants to pull a stunt this summer and say, hey,

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Speaker 1: I want to be in l A. I'm not signing

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Speaker 1: with anywhere. Uh, don't trade for me. I want to

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Speaker 1: be in the Lakers. He could. I feel like it's

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Speaker 1: in his within his right to do that. Do you

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Speaker 1: you agree? I mean, I don't see what the big

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Speaker 1: crisis is. Like, I you know, top employees in all

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Speaker 1: fields might want to You might want to move because

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Speaker 1: you have a sick kid, or you like the school

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Speaker 1: system better or whatever it is. Like, um, you know,

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Speaker 1: and I guess there are these competitive balance arguments, but

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Speaker 1: I don't totally buy it because you know, there is

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Speaker 1: a salary cap, and it's a pretty hard one now

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Speaker 1: with the repeater tax and stuff. So you know, once

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Speaker 1: you have your two or three, you know, the Lakers

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Speaker 1: right now are paying Lebron James Anthony Davis contagious call

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Speaker 1: up hope, and they will not pay anyone else a

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Speaker 1: big salary Like that's like the math, So are they

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Speaker 1: really gonna get like three other All stars, Like, no,

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Speaker 1: they aren't. They'll have a little advantage getting Montrez here

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Speaker 1: or whatever. Like but uh, but you know, I think

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Speaker 1: the cap is gonna address the competitive bounce thing well enough.

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Speaker 1: And frankly, we already have a playoffs where like I

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Speaker 1: guess the big crisis we have too many small market

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Speaker 1: teams are saying that. You know what I mean? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean, like, I'm with you. The the equality of

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Speaker 1: opportunity is there in the NBA, right, you know, the

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Speaker 1: worst team's draft first they have the best shot at

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Speaker 1: getting Zion and Luca and then building around them. But

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Speaker 1: the equality of outcome is that's just never gonna happen.

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Speaker 1: It's just not quing to happen in the NBA. Now,

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Speaker 1: you wrote an important piece on True Hoop about the

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Speaker 1: NBA's most important source of cash looking at the billionaires,

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Speaker 1: which I was fascinating. I'm assuming you heard from some

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Speaker 1: billionaires after this. Oh everybody's mad about this one. Um.

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Speaker 1: Pretty early in this series I heard from a guy

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Speaker 1: who was like, like, this thing that you're looking into

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Speaker 1: is the biggest crime in American history, and it's about

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Speaker 1: Jeffrey Epstein and his large group of accomplices and the

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Speaker 1: way most people are recovering it, they're not explaining what

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Speaker 1: the crime was. Of course, alarm bells go off, my

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Speaker 1: and like, well, what is the crime? Right? And and uh,

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Speaker 1: you know it starts with Apollo Global. The firm was

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Speaker 1: very deep ties to the NBA. Adam Silver's college roommate

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Speaker 1: is the president. Um, the billionaires who own the Hawks

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Speaker 1: that so many Sixers got their money from Apollo, Lots

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Speaker 1: of other NBA billionaires have ties to this group. Um,

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Speaker 1: it's a little confusing exactly what happened here, but I'll

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Speaker 1: say this. On the board right now is the former

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Speaker 1: executive director of the CIA. And there's like intelligence agency

424
00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:34,960
Speaker 1: connection stuff like all through this thing. And I'm learning

425
00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:37,320
Speaker 1: a lot and a little bit a little bit scary,

426
00:21:37,560 --> 00:21:41,720
Speaker 1: and uh, I'm a sportswriter who's exploring a new area

427
00:21:41,920 --> 00:21:45,200
Speaker 1: and it's mind blowing every day. Is that the kind

428
00:21:45,200 --> 00:21:48,680
Speaker 1: of thing where you get some information and you're like, well,

429
00:21:48,800 --> 00:21:50,960
Speaker 1: damn if I put this out there, do I put

430
00:21:50,960 --> 00:21:53,359
Speaker 1: a target on my back or my family's back, Like,

431
00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:54,960
Speaker 1: I don't, I don't know, I mean, is it is

432
00:21:55,200 --> 00:21:59,520
Speaker 1: what to the point of that, Well, I have had

433
00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:02,800
Speaker 1: conversations about personal safety around this the people who know

434
00:22:02,800 --> 00:22:04,720
Speaker 1: a lot about it, I feel like it's pretty safe.

435
00:22:04,720 --> 00:22:06,560
Speaker 1: At the same time, like, I'm definitely a word that

436
00:22:06,600 --> 00:22:10,680
Speaker 1: the reason other journalists, whether business journalists or sports journalists

437
00:22:10,680 --> 00:22:13,160
Speaker 1: don't poke around is because they're worried about their safety.

438
00:22:13,359 --> 00:22:15,879
Speaker 1: Like that's real, Like people are just yea, well, the

439
00:22:15,920 --> 00:22:18,120
Speaker 1: worry about two things, right. Number one, I think we're

440
00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:20,640
Speaker 1: a little bit wired that if someone's a billionaire, it's

441
00:22:20,640 --> 00:22:22,479
Speaker 1: good to just make them your friend because they might

442
00:22:22,480 --> 00:22:25,840
Speaker 1: give you money, right, like a lot of money, access protection,

443
00:22:26,160 --> 00:22:28,440
Speaker 1: whatever you need. Yeah. Yeah, And some of these people

444
00:22:28,480 --> 00:22:30,800
Speaker 1: I'm talking about, like you know, remember Blackwater was in

445
00:22:30,840 --> 00:22:34,080
Speaker 1: the news. Is this like this like Apollo Global owns

446
00:22:34,200 --> 00:22:37,320
Speaker 1: black Water? Yeah, like you know, I have a private army.

447
00:22:37,359 --> 00:22:39,080
Speaker 1: That's something to keeping not keep your eye on, you

448
00:22:39,119 --> 00:22:41,159
Speaker 1: know what I mean, I would I would agree with that.

449
00:22:41,880 --> 00:22:44,280
Speaker 1: But but so have you gotten any calls from like

450
00:22:44,320 --> 00:22:49,679
Speaker 1: block numbers, Hey, Henry stopped poking around any anything that's sketchy, uh,

451
00:22:49,840 --> 00:22:52,800
Speaker 1: or text messages from numbers that you don't recognize. No,

452
00:22:52,960 --> 00:22:56,679
Speaker 1: it hasn't been quite as like movie seem like as that,

453
00:22:56,720 --> 00:22:59,320
Speaker 1: but there's definitely been, you know, so like if you

454
00:22:59,359 --> 00:23:03,040
Speaker 1: think about my job and my sphere of influence on

455
00:23:03,080 --> 00:23:06,920
Speaker 1: my network and who calls my phone like practically everybody

456
00:23:06,960 --> 00:23:10,400
Speaker 1: I know. And the NBA works for a billionaire, right,

457
00:23:10,880 --> 00:23:13,000
Speaker 1: that's the game. That's what this sport is. Including Adam

458
00:23:13,040 --> 00:23:17,040
Speaker 1: Silver works for billionaires, right, And so I get. What

459
00:23:17,080 --> 00:23:19,199
Speaker 1: I get is a lot of people who know all

460
00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:22,160
Speaker 1: the people personally saying like like, have you really thought

461
00:23:22,160 --> 00:23:24,840
Speaker 1: through your end game here? You know, like that kind

462
00:23:24,880 --> 00:23:28,840
Speaker 1: of stuff. Well it's weird because listen, nobody does this

463
00:23:29,119 --> 00:23:32,480
Speaker 1: coming to the NFL there, there's nobody's looking. Nobody's looking

464
00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:34,480
Speaker 1: into this stuff. And that's I mean, I don't think

465
00:23:34,480 --> 00:23:37,120
Speaker 1: that's ever gonna happen. I certainly wouldn't. I would read it.

466
00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:40,159
Speaker 1: I would be spicy, but I I definitely would not

467
00:23:40,280 --> 00:23:42,479
Speaker 1: be writing that story. I do want to follow up.

468
00:23:43,119 --> 00:23:46,720
Speaker 1: You know, the pandemic really really hurt a lot of

469
00:23:46,760 --> 00:23:51,280
Speaker 1: these NBA owners. Um uh, the Rockets owner who has

470
00:23:51,320 --> 00:23:54,639
Speaker 1: said all would fine, no problem, you know, all of

471
00:23:54,680 --> 00:23:57,600
Speaker 1: a sudden, you know, major fire sale. They look like

472
00:23:57,600 --> 00:23:59,879
Speaker 1: they're in a massive rebuilding. And you could argue with

473
00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:03,119
Speaker 1: because of Morey left and Hardened demanded out, but it

474
00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:06,159
Speaker 1: seems like financially the Rockets. I mean, I think the

475
00:24:06,240 --> 00:24:09,760
Speaker 1: Miami heat. I'm very curious what happens this offseason given

476
00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:15,400
Speaker 1: he um, Mickey Arrison's fortunes are tied to cruise lines. Um,

477
00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:17,399
Speaker 1: I don't know, do you what do you think the

478
00:24:17,440 --> 00:24:20,720
Speaker 1: fallout will be from pandemic for these billionaire owners? And

479
00:24:20,720 --> 00:24:22,920
Speaker 1: I know there's no crocodile tears for these guys. I'm

480
00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:24,080
Speaker 1: just trying to think of when it comes to the

481
00:24:24,119 --> 00:24:26,920
Speaker 1: salary cap and paying the luxury tax and all that. Well,

482
00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:30,400
Speaker 1: nobody's a lot of people are cash poor. Nobody's poor poor,

483
00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:33,560
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. Um, So you know, do

484
00:24:33,560 --> 00:24:35,119
Speaker 1: you have to sell a cruise ship or you know,

485
00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:37,720
Speaker 1: telling for Tita owns all sorts of stuff, um that

486
00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:40,720
Speaker 1: he could sell, he doesn't want to sell it. Um.

487
00:24:40,760 --> 00:24:44,200
Speaker 1: So I think there's a sort of like a the

488
00:24:44,560 --> 00:24:46,840
Speaker 1: different forces coming into play where the NBA teams have

489
00:24:46,840 --> 00:24:48,600
Speaker 1: gotten so valuable, so you got to come with two

490
00:24:48,640 --> 00:24:50,240
Speaker 1: billion two point two in the case of telling for

491
00:24:50,280 --> 00:24:52,960
Speaker 1: Tita that very few people on the list of people

492
00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:56,280
Speaker 1: who can purchase them, right. Uh, And they don't want

493
00:24:56,359 --> 00:24:59,520
Speaker 1: multiple owners, right that the Bucks have two equal owners

494
00:24:59,560 --> 00:25:02,160
Speaker 1: and it's been a big mess. Um. Then b wants

495
00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:04,479
Speaker 1: to avoid that. They don't want this kind of in fighting,

496
00:25:05,119 --> 00:25:07,760
Speaker 1: so that leaves very few people who can afford it.

497
00:25:08,119 --> 00:25:11,840
Speaker 1: And then you know what's happening now is private equity

498
00:25:12,040 --> 00:25:15,240
Speaker 1: is getting figuring out avenues to like join the party,

499
00:25:15,320 --> 00:25:18,200
Speaker 1: right so they can get checks from people who aren't

500
00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:23,120
Speaker 1: the main owner. Um, this is a very tricky thing, right.

501
00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:25,840
Speaker 1: This feels like a little bit how inflation happens, right,

502
00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:28,360
Speaker 1: where like they definitely want the prices to be mega

503
00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:30,639
Speaker 1: high and no one can really afford it. Like that

504
00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:33,200
Speaker 1: sounds to me like a formula where it's not gonna

505
00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:36,600
Speaker 1: stay high forever. And what you read what how does

506
00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:39,040
Speaker 1: Mickey Aerson feel once he doesn't feel comfortable he can

507
00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:42,120
Speaker 1: resolve his team at the very high price, right like? Yeah?

508
00:25:42,359 --> 00:25:46,360
Speaker 1: And what you read on the Minnesota situation this, um

509
00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:51,879
Speaker 1: Alex Rodriguez and the rumors about Seattle, how how do

510
00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:54,480
Speaker 1: how are we supposed to interpret that? I mean that

511
00:25:56,560 --> 00:25:59,359
Speaker 1: my best way to analyze everything in the NBA is

512
00:25:59,560 --> 00:26:04,200
Speaker 1: whatever it's the most short term money is likely right like, Um,

513
00:26:04,240 --> 00:26:06,639
Speaker 1: there isn't a lot of like standing on the ceremony

514
00:26:06,760 --> 00:26:08,560
Speaker 1: or treating people right, right, like just kind of like

515
00:26:09,320 --> 00:26:10,880
Speaker 1: you know, for a while, they were to talk about

516
00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:14,760
Speaker 1: London Mexico City utter right, like like if there's a

517
00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:17,800
Speaker 1: giant check in it, like it's there's there's not gonna

518
00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:19,800
Speaker 1: be someone's laying in the tracks in front of it. Right.

519
00:26:19,880 --> 00:26:23,879
Speaker 1: Um so yeah, I Seattle has been like an object

520
00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:26,240
Speaker 1: lesson right there. That those were the taxpayers who didn't

521
00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:27,800
Speaker 1: want to pay for the stadium for the NBA. So

522
00:26:27,840 --> 00:26:31,560
Speaker 1: the NBA had to punish them, right, and um, pay

523
00:26:31,640 --> 00:26:34,720
Speaker 1: for our stadium. We're billionaires, but pay for anyway. They

524
00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:38,680
Speaker 1: paid for nfl um and soccer stadiums, and the NBA

525
00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:41,359
Speaker 1: was like, okay, we're next, and the taxpayers didn't approve it.

526
00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:43,800
Speaker 1: And so they're just like but they didn't want they

527
00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:46,359
Speaker 1: didn't want other cities get any ideas, right, so they

528
00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:47,879
Speaker 1: want every city and think they have to come with

529
00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:50,520
Speaker 1: like the whole stra for a while. I haven't looked

530
00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:53,000
Speaker 1: up in a while, but uh, the number one source

531
00:26:53,040 --> 00:26:57,600
Speaker 1: of revenue into the league was taxpayers subsis of stadiums.

532
00:26:57,640 --> 00:27:01,639
Speaker 1: That amount of money be contract right, So it seems

533
00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:05,719
Speaker 1: a little bit stadiums like more stadiums are privately funded. Now, Um,

534
00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:07,640
Speaker 1: you know, it's not quite what the boondoggle it used

535
00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:09,840
Speaker 1: to be. But yeah, so you know, maybe they've been

536
00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:11,879
Speaker 1: punished long enough. I guess that you can have a

537
00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:15,639
Speaker 1: team there now. It definitely is more revenue than Minnesota. Right,

538
00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:18,600
Speaker 1: it's a big, wealthy city. Yeah. And Minnesota has been

539
00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:21,000
Speaker 1: very bad. It's it's just a tough free agent cell

540
00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:25,080
Speaker 1: come to Minnesota, deal with six months of winter or longer,

541
00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:28,600
Speaker 1: maybe eight months of winter. Um. So I again, I don't.

542
00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:30,520
Speaker 1: I was trying to guess, you know, and and you

543
00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:32,440
Speaker 1: hear stuff I don't. I clearly don't hear the stuff

544
00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:35,639
Speaker 1: you're hearing. Uh. Having covered the league hardcore for like

545
00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:37,560
Speaker 1: fifteen years, I do want to go back to covering

546
00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:41,800
Speaker 1: the league. So true, hoop is bought by ESPN. You

547
00:27:41,840 --> 00:27:44,919
Speaker 1: go to ESPN and you know, yeah, how long were

548
00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:50,160
Speaker 1: you there? Like ten years? Fifteen years? Yeah? Um, And

549
00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:53,000
Speaker 1: I don't know how much you want to talk about leaving.

550
00:27:53,119 --> 00:27:55,959
Speaker 1: But you wrote I think it was last year, might

551
00:27:55,960 --> 00:27:59,080
Speaker 1: have been this year. Um. Probably the piece that I've

552
00:27:59,119 --> 00:28:02,280
Speaker 1: gotten sent to me more than any other piece in

553
00:28:02,320 --> 00:28:05,280
Speaker 1: sports journalism this year. The title is do I get

554
00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:08,439
Speaker 1: to speak now? It's been like ten minutes. Um. And

555
00:28:08,520 --> 00:28:11,080
Speaker 1: again I don't know how much you want to talk

556
00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:13,960
Speaker 1: about it. Um. I highly suggest everyone listening to go

557
00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:17,560
Speaker 1: read it. It's kind of mind blowing. Um. First of all,

558
00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:21,199
Speaker 1: did you have fear of backlash before posting it? Like,

559
00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:23,520
Speaker 1: oh my gosh, am I ever gonna work in sports

560
00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:27,840
Speaker 1: media again? Oh? I mean, if that's gonna cost me

561
00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:30,199
Speaker 1: my career, then I don't want that career, right, Like,

562
00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:33,480
Speaker 1: what a stupid industry it would be. What a very

563
00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:36,560
Speaker 1: thoughtful way to attack kiss the ring of Bill Simmons

564
00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:39,480
Speaker 1: looks fine, right, Like, I don't know, maybe he's really

565
00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:41,720
Speaker 1: mad at me because I wrote that piece. Um, he's

566
00:28:41,760 --> 00:28:45,440
Speaker 1: not the devil, but um, but there was I think

567
00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:49,520
Speaker 1: that frustrates me. Is a lot of talk without a

568
00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:52,120
Speaker 1: lot of evidence. And like you know that I wrote

569
00:28:52,120 --> 00:28:55,640
Speaker 1: that in a week where like Bill Simmons was being defined,

570
00:28:55,720 --> 00:28:59,440
Speaker 1: he was trending nationally and the two positions were a

571
00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:03,600
Speaker 1: he's like a terrible racist or be he's the most

572
00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:06,760
Speaker 1: wonderful human in the history of the planet. Like I'm like,

573
00:29:07,280 --> 00:29:09,280
Speaker 1: any of you fucking met that guy? Like he isn't

574
00:29:09,320 --> 00:29:12,160
Speaker 1: even those things like this is all incorrect. So I

575
00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:15,120
Speaker 1: just kind of wanted to put down like, trust me,

576
00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:17,760
Speaker 1: it's far from my collection of like these are the

577
00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:19,440
Speaker 1: worst things I could say about Bill. This was kind

578
00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:22,840
Speaker 1: of like a summary of like my experience of working

579
00:29:22,840 --> 00:29:25,240
Speaker 1: with him for a decade. And you know, I think

580
00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:27,880
Speaker 1: he's a super talented This is a common NBA thing, right,

581
00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:31,760
Speaker 1: super talented guy, difficult teammate, right, like, difficult team, hard

582
00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:34,520
Speaker 1: to get along with, um, not really interested in the

583
00:29:34,560 --> 00:29:37,760
Speaker 1: team success, right and uh, and pretty skilled at getting

584
00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:40,840
Speaker 1: what he wants right And um, it's not that's that's

585
00:29:40,880 --> 00:29:43,200
Speaker 1: not a crime, but that's just it's definitely that's what

586
00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:45,080
Speaker 1: it is, right, that's what he was doing. It wasn't

587
00:29:45,080 --> 00:29:48,720
Speaker 1: the case that he was just like, you know, some

588
00:29:48,840 --> 00:29:52,440
Speaker 1: sort of all or nothing herod or villain. He's just like,

589
00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:56,120
Speaker 1: he's kind of selfish. I'm curious, did you I'm assuming

590
00:29:56,120 --> 00:29:57,640
Speaker 1: the answer is no. Did you hear from them after

591
00:29:57,680 --> 00:30:00,360
Speaker 1: writing it? No, I haven't heard anything. I thought for

592
00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:02,960
Speaker 1: sure I would. I thought that somebody who put us

593
00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:06,080
Speaker 1: on the phone together or whatever, But um, no, nothing

594
00:30:06,120 --> 00:30:09,600
Speaker 1: at all. I'm surprised when people come after me. And again,

595
00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:12,520
Speaker 1: I'm not near the level of Simmons. I mean, ship shucks.

596
00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:15,880
Speaker 1: He sold somewhat the Ringer to Spotify for like twenty

597
00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:20,160
Speaker 1: million bucks and what I don't know, right, a lot

598
00:30:20,200 --> 00:30:23,440
Speaker 1: of money. Um, but like if someone comes after me,

599
00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:26,000
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, okay, well maybe I should have them

600
00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:28,600
Speaker 1: on my podcast. You know, Kendrick Perkins attacked me last

601
00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:31,160
Speaker 1: week again Kendrick Perkins, you know, not a big deal.

602
00:30:31,520 --> 00:30:33,200
Speaker 1: And I said, Kendrick, you know, I texted, come on

603
00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:37,960
Speaker 1: my podcast. No response. Damon Jones. Uh, former teammate of Perk,

604
00:30:38,560 --> 00:30:41,720
Speaker 1: staunch defender of Tyler, Damon, Hey, come on my podcast.

605
00:30:41,800 --> 00:30:44,560
Speaker 1: He came on. We discussed it, like, like men, that's

606
00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:46,880
Speaker 1: kind of what we do right as men, don't we

607
00:30:47,040 --> 00:30:49,640
Speaker 1: Like I'm not saying let's talk everything out. But I'm

608
00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:53,040
Speaker 1: surprised Simmons didn't reach out to you about it. I mean, hey,

609
00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:54,440
Speaker 1: you know you're you said he was going through a

610
00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:57,080
Speaker 1: lot of stuff I have. I know him a little bit.

611
00:30:57,120 --> 00:31:00,560
Speaker 1: I haven't talked to him in probably ten years. Um,

612
00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:03,400
Speaker 1: but I thought the piece was just eye opening. Uh.

613
00:31:03,440 --> 00:31:06,880
Speaker 1: Into the sports media. What's the word Dead's been used

614
00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:10,640
Speaker 1: to use? A word called the maw. I think like

615
00:31:10,720 --> 00:31:14,320
Speaker 1: just it's just like this big machine and you know,

616
00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:16,880
Speaker 1: every Henry Abbot jumps on and you're on the conveyor

617
00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:19,400
Speaker 1: belt and the guy at the top of the totem

618
00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:21,280
Speaker 1: was Bill Simmons for a while. Of course he's he's

619
00:31:21,320 --> 00:31:23,480
Speaker 1: kind of gone now, um and as his own thing.

620
00:31:23,520 --> 00:31:26,120
Speaker 1: But I don't know, do you was your experience bad

621
00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:29,040
Speaker 1: enough that you wouldn't work for like a large corporation

622
00:31:29,080 --> 00:31:30,440
Speaker 1: again or do you kind of like being your own

623
00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:35,360
Speaker 1: boss and working at your own pace? Um? I feel Look, no,

624
00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:37,560
Speaker 1: the dream for me, and I think everybody I know

625
00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:40,880
Speaker 1: in this business is to have a boss you really respect, right, Like,

626
00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:43,920
Speaker 1: you want a boss who makes your work better. And

627
00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:45,960
Speaker 1: if you can get that, it's the greatest thing in

628
00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:48,480
Speaker 1: the world. And if you can't be your own boss, right, Like,

629
00:31:48,840 --> 00:31:51,400
Speaker 1: I think that we've had bad leadership in this industry.

630
00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:53,040
Speaker 1: Like there's just been a lot of stupid stuff. I

631
00:31:53,040 --> 00:31:57,800
Speaker 1: mean mostly it comes from okay, here's a little media

632
00:31:57,840 --> 00:32:01,800
Speaker 1: theory time. But like I feel like, going from you know,

633
00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:07,520
Speaker 1: previous journalism and career in radio and magazines and stuff too, blogs,

634
00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:09,320
Speaker 1: you have to be super humble and just learned how

635
00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:11,120
Speaker 1: does this work? And then you go digital video how

636
00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:12,520
Speaker 1: does this work? And you go to social media? How

637
00:32:12,520 --> 00:32:15,280
Speaker 1: does this work? Like you have to start at zero

638
00:32:15,320 --> 00:32:18,480
Speaker 1: and relearn a new set of skills. For every different thing. Right.

639
00:32:18,920 --> 00:32:22,160
Speaker 1: Media leadership, by and large with the big dollars is

640
00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:25,560
Speaker 1: mostly common people who proved it in like magazines or TV,

641
00:32:26,480 --> 00:32:29,800
Speaker 1: who they know everything they're ever gonna need to know,

642
00:32:30,040 --> 00:32:32,680
Speaker 1: and they don't really feel like getting humble about how

643
00:32:32,720 --> 00:32:36,160
Speaker 1: to learn about TikTok, right, So, like I think they are.

644
00:32:36,160 --> 00:32:39,200
Speaker 1: These are very wealthy, successful people who produced in ESPN,

645
00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:43,800
Speaker 1: studio show or whatever it is, right, and they just

646
00:32:43,840 --> 00:32:46,120
Speaker 1: get bad results in digital digitals in the place for

647
00:32:46,160 --> 00:32:48,360
Speaker 1: like real hustlers, and you work hard and you figured

648
00:32:48,360 --> 00:32:49,920
Speaker 1: it out and you suck at first, and then you

649
00:32:49,920 --> 00:32:52,600
Speaker 1: get better. And so I kind of feel like that's

650
00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:56,400
Speaker 1: the game we're in, you and me, right, and uh,

651
00:32:56,440 --> 00:32:58,640
Speaker 1: it's it just beats you up all the time, but

652
00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:01,600
Speaker 1: you can learn some stuff and I'm super proud, you know.

653
00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:05,160
Speaker 1: And my latter years of the ESPN ran this team

654
00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:07,520
Speaker 1: I kind of like tested some theories of mine about

655
00:33:07,560 --> 00:33:11,960
Speaker 1: what makes big audience and we just slaughtered every traffic

656
00:33:11,960 --> 00:33:14,320
Speaker 1: record they had, Like, um, I don't know if I'm

657
00:33:14,320 --> 00:33:16,800
Speaker 1: allowed to show the numbers, but you know, just millions

658
00:33:16,800 --> 00:33:20,240
Speaker 1: and millions and millions of people and huge revenues for

659
00:33:20,320 --> 00:33:22,680
Speaker 1: like a very small team that was just doing stuff

660
00:33:22,720 --> 00:33:25,360
Speaker 1: with a little bit of a different approach, a little

661
00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:28,000
Speaker 1: bit of different set of criteria. And that's just something

662
00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:31,320
Speaker 1: I learned from from looking at how digital media works,

663
00:33:31,320 --> 00:33:33,400
Speaker 1: and like you could never have learned it from magazines

664
00:33:33,480 --> 00:33:36,360
Speaker 1: or TV. And I think this is where just the

665
00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:37,920
Speaker 1: name of the game is being humble. If you get

666
00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:39,880
Speaker 1: a boss like that, then I would love to work

667
00:33:39,920 --> 00:33:42,120
Speaker 1: for a giant company with that boss. And I don't

668
00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:44,959
Speaker 1: know that name of that boss right now. Well, it's

669
00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:48,120
Speaker 1: funny because they were the gatekeepers right at TV and

670
00:33:48,240 --> 00:33:51,800
Speaker 1: radio and newspapers and magazines. They were the gatekeepers for years, decades,

671
00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:55,800
Speaker 1: and then this internet thing comes along disrupts everything, and

672
00:33:55,840 --> 00:33:58,120
Speaker 1: they think it's a seamless transition. Oh well, I worked

673
00:33:58,120 --> 00:34:01,680
Speaker 1: at this newspaper, I can clearly work at this website. No,

674
00:34:02,520 --> 00:34:04,760
Speaker 1: I mean, Henry, people don't understand. It doesn't work like that.

675
00:34:04,800 --> 00:34:09,400
Speaker 1: The transition is very very stark um. And you know

676
00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:13,800
Speaker 1: when disrupting those gatekeepers has rattled a lot of people,

677
00:34:14,000 --> 00:34:17,520
Speaker 1: and you know, these guys who were the gatekeepers, they think, oh,

678
00:34:17,640 --> 00:34:20,440
Speaker 1: I can just hire this guy with five thousand Twitter

679
00:34:20,480 --> 00:34:25,000
Speaker 1: followers and that's automatically gonna mean traffic and Henry. I,

680
00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:27,239
Speaker 1: I mean, I know you've seen numbers like That's not

681
00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:31,840
Speaker 1: how it works. Not all five thousand Twitter follower people

682
00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:38,160
Speaker 1: are equal. Some people actually drive traffic, others absolutely unequivocally

683
00:34:38,160 --> 00:34:41,799
Speaker 1: do not. Henry, how do? I don't even really know

684
00:34:41,960 --> 00:34:43,239
Speaker 1: what to say because I know a lot of media

685
00:34:43,239 --> 00:34:44,799
Speaker 1: people listen to this and I would be like, oh, Jason,

686
00:34:44,800 --> 00:34:46,520
Speaker 1: you got all the answers. I don't. I'm like you,

687
00:34:46,680 --> 00:34:49,839
Speaker 1: I'm trying to learn. Since I got to FS one,

688
00:34:50,480 --> 00:34:52,799
Speaker 1: I've just tried to be a sponge around what what

689
00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:54,720
Speaker 1: the hell to do on television and how to sound

690
00:34:54,760 --> 00:34:57,600
Speaker 1: and act and look at um, you know, meeting people

691
00:34:57,640 --> 00:34:59,920
Speaker 1: and talking to them, and the same thing with a podcast,

692
00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:03,440
Speaker 1: like you're just trying all these different pairs of shoes

693
00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:05,239
Speaker 1: on and what fits then it then it rolls. But

694
00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:08,759
Speaker 1: I don't know, Henry, do you think the Internet? I

695
00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:11,279
Speaker 1: don't know a lot of people say like nine five

696
00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:13,279
Speaker 1: was what a O L? And then the internet? What

697
00:35:13,520 --> 00:35:17,879
Speaker 1: are we using as the starting date? Two thousand the crash? Maybe? Oh,

698
00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:21,399
Speaker 1: I didn't really know anything about it until like two

699
00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:25,319
Speaker 1: thousand and three or four. Um, yeah, I don't. I

700
00:35:25,360 --> 00:35:28,800
Speaker 1: was not when I was graduating from college, one of

701
00:35:28,840 --> 00:35:30,680
Speaker 1: my fellow students get a presentation about how cool it

702
00:35:30,719 --> 00:35:33,239
Speaker 1: was the email. I remember just thinking, like, this is

703
00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:40,560
Speaker 1: never gonna catch on. This is you know, that's wild. Um, okay,

704
00:35:40,600 --> 00:35:43,120
Speaker 1: so fine, we're gonna let's just give it fifth internets

705
00:35:43,120 --> 00:35:47,120
Speaker 1: about fifteen sixteen years old and sports media, Uh sorry,

706
00:35:47,120 --> 00:35:50,759
Speaker 1: social media? Really what ten? You want to say ten

707
00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:53,800
Speaker 1: eleven years old? So you know, I love this analogy.

708
00:35:53,880 --> 00:35:56,279
Speaker 1: Like I I'm bullish on soccer. You know, I bought

709
00:35:56,280 --> 00:35:59,520
Speaker 1: a soccer team with some guys and everybody said, oh,

710
00:35:59,560 --> 00:36:01,440
Speaker 1: I've been here, soccer is gonna catch on forever. And

711
00:36:01,560 --> 00:36:04,279
Speaker 1: MLS has been around forever. And I'm like, guys, the

712
00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:07,840
Speaker 1: NFL has been around a hundred years, the NBA close

713
00:36:07,880 --> 00:36:11,880
Speaker 1: to a hundred. Major League Baseball over MLS like twenty

714
00:36:11,920 --> 00:36:14,959
Speaker 1: five years. Like the idea that the MLS is gonna

715
00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:17,480
Speaker 1: catch up in that short time is crazy. The MLS

716
00:36:17,520 --> 00:36:19,399
Speaker 1: still has a long way to go. I think we're

717
00:36:19,520 --> 00:36:23,920
Speaker 1: kind of just getting started. Henry in Sports Media Online,

718
00:36:23,920 --> 00:36:26,399
Speaker 1: And you know, as you said, you mentioned TikTok. That's

719
00:36:26,400 --> 00:36:28,640
Speaker 1: like the I don't know eight TikTok reference in the

720
00:36:28,680 --> 00:36:32,040
Speaker 1: history of this podcast. Um. Sadly there's a lot of

721
00:36:32,040 --> 00:36:34,480
Speaker 1: people who are on TikTok all the time and they've

722
00:36:34,560 --> 00:36:38,560
Speaker 1: they're algorithm crushes. I don't know how how difficult is

723
00:36:38,600 --> 00:36:42,440
Speaker 1: it to continually adapt in sports media? I mean it's

724
00:36:42,520 --> 00:36:45,520
Speaker 1: very difficult. Most people just don't write most one thing

725
00:36:45,520 --> 00:36:48,239
Speaker 1: that's just the thing you do and then you're done. Um.

726
00:36:48,719 --> 00:36:52,080
Speaker 1: I just look at you know, I have teenagers, uh,

727
00:36:52,160 --> 00:36:54,000
Speaker 1: and I won't look at them and their friends, and

728
00:36:54,480 --> 00:36:56,080
Speaker 1: they're never going to watch the NBA game like they

729
00:36:56,080 --> 00:36:58,759
Speaker 1: are never going to watch half hour game with commercials

730
00:36:58,760 --> 00:37:02,800
Speaker 1: and like anybody, strategy is to like get a point

731
00:37:02,840 --> 00:37:05,160
Speaker 1: one percent increase in how people want like you're done,

732
00:37:05,320 --> 00:37:07,440
Speaker 1: Like I don't know what you're not done in this decade,

733
00:37:07,440 --> 00:37:11,359
Speaker 1: but you're done soon. And it's not gonna work that way.

734
00:37:11,400 --> 00:37:13,759
Speaker 1: It probably you know, there are fifty other things that

735
00:37:13,800 --> 00:37:16,840
Speaker 1: are promising, um, and you can't bet on all fifties.

736
00:37:16,880 --> 00:37:19,400
Speaker 1: So you have to pick carefully right and and you

737
00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:22,479
Speaker 1: know the victors. Here's what's gonna happen, right, is really

738
00:37:22,480 --> 00:37:24,919
Speaker 1: smart of people will place a few bets here and there,

739
00:37:25,000 --> 00:37:27,200
Speaker 1: and then the really deep pockets will come and just

740
00:37:27,600 --> 00:37:30,080
Speaker 1: overwhelm the two channels that work out of those fifty

741
00:37:30,280 --> 00:37:33,799
Speaker 1: rate and um, but it's very expensive to keep playing

742
00:37:33,840 --> 00:37:35,520
Speaker 1: catch up like this, right, I feel like it we

743
00:37:35,560 --> 00:37:38,480
Speaker 1: could be so much smarter. It's honestly, it's just like

744
00:37:38,520 --> 00:37:41,640
Speaker 1: basketball with advanced analytics and everyone's like, you know, fifteen

745
00:37:41,680 --> 00:37:44,200
Speaker 1: years ago, like three pointers are for losers, and it's

746
00:37:44,239 --> 00:37:46,319
Speaker 1: like now it's like every single team takes way more

747
00:37:46,360 --> 00:37:48,160
Speaker 1: than the Phoenix Sounds ever did, and it's the only

748
00:37:48,160 --> 00:37:50,400
Speaker 1: way you can possibly win. It's like, well, that was

749
00:37:50,440 --> 00:37:53,800
Speaker 1: an expensive fifteen years for everybody who just didn't write

750
00:37:53,840 --> 00:37:56,359
Speaker 1: like like what a bunch of idiots? Right Like, it

751
00:37:56,400 --> 00:37:59,040
Speaker 1: was pretty clear. So I feel like the leadership of

752
00:37:59,040 --> 00:38:00,560
Speaker 1: the future to me is the and who can like

753
00:38:01,160 --> 00:38:04,239
Speaker 1: most accurately pivot to the new data as it comes in,

754
00:38:04,440 --> 00:38:06,319
Speaker 1: Right Like when can you decide, like, oh, look, we

755
00:38:06,360 --> 00:38:09,680
Speaker 1: needed everyone in America to wear masks? Right Like, how

756
00:38:09,760 --> 00:38:11,600
Speaker 1: quickly can you pivot to like what we're learning on

757
00:38:11,640 --> 00:38:14,200
Speaker 1: the fly and not fall for dumb stuff? Right? Like?

758
00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:17,319
Speaker 1: That's leadership now, And it's hard, it's really hard, But

759
00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:19,759
Speaker 1: you can't just do it the way you always did it,

760
00:38:20,040 --> 00:38:23,880
Speaker 1: Like that is that's the only super dumb approach. Fox

761
00:38:23,920 --> 00:38:27,040
Speaker 1: Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in the nation.

762
00:38:27,360 --> 00:38:30,279
Speaker 1: Catch all of our shows at Fox Sports Radio dot

763
00:38:30,320 --> 00:38:33,319
Speaker 1: com and within the I Heart Radio app. Search f

764
00:38:33,640 --> 00:38:36,200
Speaker 1: s R to listen live. I guess we can wrap

765
00:38:36,280 --> 00:38:38,520
Speaker 1: up with like, you know, when you're thinking big picture,

766
00:38:38,560 --> 00:38:42,080
Speaker 1: you zoom out on the NBA of what it is said,

767
00:38:42,120 --> 00:38:44,960
Speaker 1: kids won't watch a game Henry Hawks Sixers the other

768
00:38:45,040 --> 00:38:48,200
Speaker 1: night game two. As soon as Shake Milton goes bananas,

769
00:38:48,239 --> 00:38:49,520
Speaker 1: I'm like, all right, let me fire up a quick

770
00:38:49,560 --> 00:38:53,040
Speaker 1: game of FIFA real quick before Jazz um before the

771
00:38:53,080 --> 00:38:54,920
Speaker 1: Jazz game starts against the Clippers. And I just like,

772
00:38:54,960 --> 00:38:57,799
Speaker 1: stop watching. And you're right, I can't get my young

773
00:38:57,880 --> 00:39:00,279
Speaker 1: kids to watch more than like a or of a

774
00:39:00,360 --> 00:39:02,120
Speaker 1: Lakers game. Now, if we go to it, that's different.

775
00:39:02,440 --> 00:39:05,520
Speaker 1: But when you zoom out on the league, like what

776
00:39:05,760 --> 00:39:08,960
Speaker 1: can the NBA do? Or is just this is the

777
00:39:08,960 --> 00:39:11,640
Speaker 1: new normal. People are not gonna watch regular season games.

778
00:39:11,800 --> 00:39:14,640
Speaker 1: Let shorten the season. Let's try this mid season tournament.

779
00:39:14,960 --> 00:39:18,359
Speaker 1: Let's tinker before we quickly become extinct the way other

780
00:39:18,400 --> 00:39:22,960
Speaker 1: sports kind of are starting to feel. There isn't like.

781
00:39:23,000 --> 00:39:25,239
Speaker 1: One of the most brilliant things I've ever seen on

782
00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:28,440
Speaker 1: this topic was my friend Kevin Arnovitz gave a talk

783
00:39:28,520 --> 00:39:30,719
Speaker 1: at the m I. T. Sloan Sports LAS Conference a

784
00:39:30,719 --> 00:39:33,640
Speaker 1: couple of years ago where we talked about how like

785
00:39:33,719 --> 00:39:39,239
Speaker 1: Prestige TV had become like a six episode season, um,

786
00:39:39,280 --> 00:39:41,520
Speaker 1: and I think the NBA has a choice, like is

787
00:39:41,520 --> 00:39:44,120
Speaker 1: it gonna become like a premium product like NFL plays

788
00:39:44,120 --> 00:39:47,200
Speaker 1: sixteen times a year, where you know what you're trying

789
00:39:47,239 --> 00:39:50,080
Speaker 1: to create is absolute magic. So now you want Lebron

790
00:39:50,239 --> 00:39:53,520
Speaker 1: rested and jumping is absolute highest and flying like Michael

791
00:39:53,560 --> 00:39:56,480
Speaker 1: Jordan's over people like, or do you want Lebron to

792
00:39:56,480 --> 00:39:59,000
Speaker 1: show up in your arena and sell incrementally half million

793
00:39:59,040 --> 00:40:02,080
Speaker 1: dollars more in year because he's famous and you're gonna

794
00:40:02,080 --> 00:40:03,640
Speaker 1: grind him down four times a week and have a

795
00:40:03,640 --> 00:40:05,719
Speaker 1: season and early? Right, Like, I think you have to

796
00:40:05,760 --> 00:40:09,319
Speaker 1: decide if you're national TV popular product, you need these

797
00:40:09,320 --> 00:40:12,399
Speaker 1: players rested and more games doesn't help because it makes

798
00:40:12,440 --> 00:40:15,200
Speaker 1: each one worth less, right, it makes the randomness down

799
00:40:15,280 --> 00:40:17,759
Speaker 1: to nil. And if I look exciting because it is

800
00:40:17,760 --> 00:40:20,040
Speaker 1: determined on the bounce of an oblong ball, right, that

801
00:40:20,160 --> 00:40:23,680
Speaker 1: makes must watch TV. Right. Whereas whereas the NBA is

802
00:40:23,719 --> 00:40:25,279
Speaker 1: just like, ah, they lost this one, and one the

803
00:40:25,280 --> 00:40:27,800
Speaker 1: next one or the next one or whatever. It's fine. Um.

804
00:40:27,880 --> 00:40:29,759
Speaker 1: So I think I think there's a choice where you

805
00:40:29,760 --> 00:40:32,840
Speaker 1: could make all these reforms that can widen the court

806
00:40:33,000 --> 00:40:36,440
Speaker 1: and um have fewer games and on and on, and

807
00:40:36,480 --> 00:40:39,439
Speaker 1: make the game like maximum fun to watch, which makes

808
00:40:39,520 --> 00:40:43,239
Speaker 1: maximum quality highlights on cell phone in China, which is

809
00:40:43,239 --> 00:40:46,160
Speaker 1: like the market that probably matters most in the future, right, Um,

810
00:40:46,320 --> 00:40:49,439
Speaker 1: Or you can make it like it is now where

811
00:40:49,480 --> 00:40:52,520
Speaker 1: we're just you know, trying to get owners slightly better

812
00:40:52,600 --> 00:40:56,319
Speaker 1: regional sports deal and uh, we don't really care how

813
00:40:56,400 --> 00:40:59,840
Speaker 1: much we grind lebron to a pulp. Yeah, I would

814
00:41:00,160 --> 00:41:03,280
Speaker 1: agree with almost all that. UM. I don't know though, Henry,

815
00:41:03,320 --> 00:41:06,279
Speaker 1: how feasible is it, though, that they decide to go

816
00:41:06,400 --> 00:41:09,799
Speaker 1: through door number two or the mystery door where they say,

817
00:41:09,840 --> 00:41:12,480
Speaker 1: you know what? You know, the players don't really care

818
00:41:12,480 --> 00:41:16,439
Speaker 1: about the regular season. Um, the coaches are resting guys. Uh.

819
00:41:16,480 --> 00:41:19,799
Speaker 1: The analytics teams are saying more rest Why are we

820
00:41:19,840 --> 00:41:22,520
Speaker 1: working them to the bone during the regular season and

821
00:41:22,560 --> 00:41:26,120
Speaker 1: now in the playoffs? Anthony Davis is hurt? Um, who

822
00:41:26,239 --> 00:41:30,120
Speaker 1: Jamal Murray's out? You've got so many start Jamal James Harden. Sorry,

823
00:41:30,280 --> 00:41:32,359
Speaker 1: you go on down the list. Like almost every team

824
00:41:32,360 --> 00:41:35,080
Speaker 1: in the playoffs. I think, except for the Hawks and Clippers,

825
00:41:35,200 --> 00:41:39,000
Speaker 1: has been significantly impacted by injury, Like, can you just

826
00:41:39,040 --> 00:41:40,799
Speaker 1: try to shorten to seventy two games? Or do the

827
00:41:40,840 --> 00:41:42,960
Speaker 1: billionaires then step up and say no, no, no, no,

828
00:41:42,960 --> 00:41:45,400
Speaker 1: no no, I'm not missing out on that revenue of

829
00:41:45,440 --> 00:41:49,439
Speaker 1: those extra five home games. Um, simply because I want

830
00:41:49,480 --> 00:41:52,640
Speaker 1: more money. Who who wins that discussion? The billionaires or

831
00:41:52,840 --> 00:41:55,360
Speaker 1: the smart people. Well, so it's a bet on the

832
00:41:55,400 --> 00:41:57,520
Speaker 1: known versus the unknown, right, Like the no one is

833
00:41:57,560 --> 00:41:59,160
Speaker 1: the extra half million you get? I mean, it really

834
00:41:59,160 --> 00:42:02,200
Speaker 1: does come down to like Lebron and staff. So the

835
00:42:02,280 --> 00:42:05,040
Speaker 1: national TV revenue is distributed and that's done, and there's

836
00:42:05,080 --> 00:42:08,120
Speaker 1: nothing worth fighting for. So all the employees who worked

837
00:42:08,160 --> 00:42:09,799
Speaker 1: for the team who try to make money, all the

838
00:42:09,800 --> 00:42:13,320
Speaker 1: business staff, they're just fighting over like in arena revenue,

839
00:42:13,360 --> 00:42:17,560
Speaker 1: in arena signage, parking revenues. Like their whole ethos is

840
00:42:17,600 --> 00:42:21,719
Speaker 1: this very small part of the pie. Right And but

841
00:42:21,920 --> 00:42:24,360
Speaker 1: so they see a real victory. And when they finally

842
00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:28,040
Speaker 1: get Lebron to come to Milwaukee, right, that's a night

843
00:42:28,120 --> 00:42:31,279
Speaker 1: that they make an extra million dollars in selling beer

844
00:42:31,320 --> 00:42:35,040
Speaker 1: and parking this kind of stuff. Right, that's their business view, right,

845
00:42:35,080 --> 00:42:37,560
Speaker 1: that's what they're after. So you can let them carry

846
00:42:37,560 --> 00:42:40,760
Speaker 1: the day if you want. But it's a giant waste

847
00:42:40,760 --> 00:42:44,239
Speaker 1: of Lebron right, like, like he's literally out because of

848
00:42:44,280 --> 00:42:47,600
Speaker 1: that right now, And like, well that's stupid because now

849
00:42:47,880 --> 00:42:51,000
Speaker 1: ESPN Turner are losing out on Lebron all playoffs long

850
00:42:51,239 --> 00:42:53,920
Speaker 1: because they got their million dollars in beer sales in

851
00:42:53,920 --> 00:42:57,359
Speaker 1: in in January. Um So to me, like, we don't

852
00:42:57,480 --> 00:42:59,160
Speaker 1: know what the other things, Like this is what Kevin's

853
00:42:59,200 --> 00:43:01,319
Speaker 1: presentation is about. Let him articulate it better than me.

854
00:43:01,400 --> 00:43:04,080
Speaker 1: But I'm gonna go watch it, you know, Like is

855
00:43:04,200 --> 00:43:06,360
Speaker 1: HBO gonna be okay? Like I think so, Like, but

856
00:43:06,400 --> 00:43:08,839
Speaker 1: they don't have one thousand, two hundred and thirty games

857
00:43:08,880 --> 00:43:10,400
Speaker 1: a year, Like you don't have to have there's no

858
00:43:10,400 --> 00:43:11,719
Speaker 1: where it says you have to have that. You just

859
00:43:11,760 --> 00:43:14,480
Speaker 1: have to have a product that works in the modern

860
00:43:14,520 --> 00:43:16,719
Speaker 1: media environment. And you know, the NFL is okay. I

861
00:43:16,760 --> 00:43:19,359
Speaker 1: think there's an opportunity for basketball to be more like that.

862
00:43:20,560 --> 00:43:22,680
Speaker 1: Do you remember when Michael Jordan went away and the

863
00:43:22,760 --> 00:43:25,840
Speaker 1: ratings went like fell it fell off a cliff to

864
00:43:25,880 --> 00:43:27,760
Speaker 1: the point Jordan had to come back with the Wizards

865
00:43:28,080 --> 00:43:29,839
Speaker 1: to try to help the league. And they had good

866
00:43:30,160 --> 00:43:32,120
Speaker 1: and and it's funny because people will always say, oh,

867
00:43:32,120 --> 00:43:33,920
Speaker 1: well Jordan was gone. Well, no, they had a lot

868
00:43:33,920 --> 00:43:36,920
Speaker 1: of good young players. Alan Iverson was in the league,

869
00:43:37,080 --> 00:43:39,320
Speaker 1: Kobe and Shack were in the league. Like there was

870
00:43:39,520 --> 00:43:42,680
Speaker 1: big time stars. But Jordan went away, and he was

871
00:43:42,719 --> 00:43:45,280
Speaker 1: the biggest draw. I mean you've seen the data, Henry,

872
00:43:45,560 --> 00:43:48,040
Speaker 1: Lebron James is the biggest draw. I mean Steph Curry's

873
00:43:48,120 --> 00:43:50,040
Speaker 1: right there with him. Well, when Lebron's gone and two

874
00:43:50,120 --> 00:43:53,520
Speaker 1: or three years this whole can Janice and Devin Booker

875
00:43:53,880 --> 00:43:57,120
Speaker 1: and Luca Donte to carry the league? Henry, I think

876
00:43:57,120 --> 00:44:01,400
Speaker 1: we both know that the answer is no, right probably,

877
00:44:01,600 --> 00:44:06,640
Speaker 1: I mean like optimism optimism, No, I mean like I

878
00:44:06,640 --> 00:44:10,279
Speaker 1: think New York just learned the name Trey Young, right,

879
00:44:10,440 --> 00:44:14,600
Speaker 1: Like that happened. That's an accomplished moent. Right, that's the thing. Um,

880
00:44:14,719 --> 00:44:17,840
Speaker 1: he's never going to be forgotten now right, Um, Luca

881
00:44:18,200 --> 00:44:20,719
Speaker 1: is probably on his way to be well. So we

882
00:44:20,760 --> 00:44:23,040
Speaker 1: had all this Dad ESPN and basically, like you know,

883
00:44:23,080 --> 00:44:25,600
Speaker 1: in terms of your ability to compel someone to like

884
00:44:25,680 --> 00:44:28,600
Speaker 1: click on an article or or watch the show. Um,

885
00:44:28,640 --> 00:44:33,759
Speaker 1: it's like Lebron, Kobe Steph a giant drop, and then

886
00:44:33,800 --> 00:44:36,600
Speaker 1: like the Lakers and the Knicks and then way out

887
00:44:36,600 --> 00:44:38,040
Speaker 1: and then by the time you get to like Donovan

888
00:44:38,040 --> 00:44:41,480
Speaker 1: Mitchell like like doesn't sell one ticket, which is you know,

889
00:44:41,960 --> 00:44:43,439
Speaker 1: we can fight about this, but like the people around

890
00:44:43,440 --> 00:44:45,560
Speaker 1: Donald are like, no, we can't give you access. It's

891
00:44:45,560 --> 00:44:49,000
Speaker 1: like give me a break, like like it's not can

892
00:44:49,040 --> 00:44:52,359
Speaker 1: I interview Donovan? No, no, no, you can't. Really. Kevin

893
00:44:52,400 --> 00:44:55,680
Speaker 1: Durant start in a Hollywood movie, a big budget Hollywood movie,

894
00:44:55,680 --> 00:44:58,160
Speaker 1: and nobody went to watch it. Like most of these

895
00:44:58,160 --> 00:45:00,319
Speaker 1: players are not stars in the set us of the

896
00:45:00,320 --> 00:45:04,239
Speaker 1: word star, right, Like they don't make people buy tickets, um,

897
00:45:04,280 --> 00:45:06,319
Speaker 1: just those few. So the question is like, you know,

898
00:45:07,480 --> 00:45:10,479
Speaker 1: can we get that level of enthusiasm out of Joel

899
00:45:10,600 --> 00:45:13,640
Speaker 1: m b either Trey Young or Damian Lillard or whatever,

900
00:45:13,680 --> 00:45:18,040
Speaker 1: and you know, probably not, but you know once Zion

901
00:45:18,120 --> 00:45:21,160
Speaker 1: Williamson will be the interesting test case, um because he

902
00:45:21,320 --> 00:45:22,799
Speaker 1: I don't know about you, but I don't see the

903
00:45:22,880 --> 00:45:26,919
Speaker 1: personality there. Lebron took on the league like it's gonna

904
00:45:26,920 --> 00:45:29,239
Speaker 1: be on my shoulders. I'm gonna be the villain. I'm

905
00:45:29,280 --> 00:45:32,879
Speaker 1: going to Miami. I'm doing my think again. We've gone

906
00:45:32,920 --> 00:45:34,520
Speaker 1: way too long. I know you've got stuff to do, Henry,

907
00:45:34,560 --> 00:45:38,880
Speaker 1: But if Zion Williamson were to reject the rookie extension,

908
00:45:38,880 --> 00:45:41,440
Speaker 1: nobody's ever done it, no like high pick. If he

909
00:45:41,560 --> 00:45:46,440
Speaker 1: did that, I think that would be enormously great for

910
00:45:46,480 --> 00:45:48,400
Speaker 1: the NBA. Now, a lot of fans on Twitter will say, oh,

911
00:45:48,400 --> 00:45:51,399
Speaker 1: that's stupid, that would be horrible, small market blah blah blah,

912
00:45:51,440 --> 00:45:53,800
Speaker 1: but it would would it not be in the same

913
00:45:53,920 --> 00:45:55,839
Speaker 1: vein as what Lebron did. I know he stuck around

914
00:45:55,840 --> 00:45:58,880
Speaker 1: Cleveland longer. But Zion is a guy who people are

915
00:45:58,880 --> 00:46:02,319
Speaker 1: tuning on learning on the TV to watch, right. The

916
00:46:02,400 --> 00:46:05,080
Speaker 1: NBA seems to think so, right, And um, I think

917
00:46:05,160 --> 00:46:08,480
Speaker 1: John Morant has that kind of infectious game. I think

918
00:46:08,480 --> 00:46:10,480
Speaker 1: if he were, you know, on National TV all time,

919
00:46:10,520 --> 00:46:13,240
Speaker 1: people would love him. And and you know you mentioned

920
00:46:13,239 --> 00:46:16,200
Speaker 1: Alan Iverson is like a post Jordan potential. But like,

921
00:46:16,400 --> 00:46:18,200
Speaker 1: but it's certainly in that case. I was there. I

922
00:46:18,239 --> 00:46:21,120
Speaker 1: covered that team, Like America is kind of racist and

923
00:46:21,120 --> 00:46:23,480
Speaker 1: they didn't really want Allen Everson, right, Like the NBA

924
00:46:23,880 --> 00:46:26,279
Speaker 1: self airbrushes tattoos off his body on the cover of

925
00:46:26,280 --> 00:46:30,520
Speaker 1: the magazine, right, And so that's where I say Luca

926
00:46:30,680 --> 00:46:35,200
Speaker 1: is an interesting potential star. Like Luca, Luca doesn't give

927
00:46:35,200 --> 00:46:38,720
Speaker 1: a crap, shoots from everywhere, is like this total gun slinger,

928
00:46:39,000 --> 00:46:42,760
Speaker 1: and I mean, I hate that this matters, but Texas

929
00:46:42,800 --> 00:46:46,160
Speaker 1: is like, oh hell yeah, give me that guy, right. Um.

930
00:46:46,320 --> 00:46:48,680
Speaker 1: So I feel like there's like a I don't know

931
00:46:48,719 --> 00:46:51,239
Speaker 1: exactly what that looks like in two, three or four years,

932
00:46:51,239 --> 00:46:53,600
Speaker 1: but I think there's more young talent now than any

933
00:46:53,640 --> 00:46:57,120
Speaker 1: time ever, and you know, more players who are might

934
00:46:57,200 --> 00:47:01,640
Speaker 1: make an amazing highlight and that matters, all right. He

935
00:47:01,800 --> 00:47:06,400
Speaker 1: is Henry Abbott, true hoop uh internet one point, oh, pioneer.

936
00:47:06,760 --> 00:47:12,200
Speaker 1: I don't know what's gonna call him? Um um, what's

937
00:47:12,239 --> 00:47:14,600
Speaker 1: the phrase I'm looking for? Um the guy who pisces

938
00:47:14,640 --> 00:47:16,600
Speaker 1: off billionaires. I was trying to say that eloquently and

939
00:47:16,640 --> 00:47:20,880
Speaker 1: I did. Congrats on all your success, Henry, great stuff,

940
00:47:20,920 --> 00:47:22,839
Speaker 1: had a lot of fun, and keep up the good work.

941
00:47:23,520 --> 00:47:25,160
Speaker 1: All right, thank you, Jason, all right,