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Speaker 1: Let's turn now to poverty. There was an absolutely fascinating.

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Speaker 3: Essay that went very very viderable amongst the you know,

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Speaker 3: the economy literati, and it was about the poverty line.

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Speaker 3: And as you guys may know, the federal poverty line

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Speaker 3: is a set standard where it's currently set is very

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Speaker 3: very low. There's long been a discussion about whether that

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Speaker 3: poverty line really captures things. But this new essay by

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Speaker 3: Michael Green argues that the federal poverty line should be

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Speaker 3: higher and hire.

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Speaker 1: A lot high.

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Speaker 3: Let's put this up here on the screen. So what

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Speaker 3: he writes, very specifically is that the US poverty line,

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Speaker 3: which is currently set to keep a family out of

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Speaker 3: poverty is thirty two one hundred and fifty for a

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Speaker 3: family of four.

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Speaker 1: Michael Green did some math.

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Speaker 3: Quote for a family of four to afford housing, healthcare, challdcare,

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Speaker 3: and other necessities, he calculated that they would need at

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Speaker 3: least one hundred and thirty six thousand dollars a year.

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Speaker 3: He says it should be more than four times that

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Speaker 3: a figure would mean that the majority of American households

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Speaker 3: are living in poverty by his metric. This idea, which

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Speaker 3: they specifically say, published on sub stack, and again it

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Speaker 3: made a huge It was went so viral amongst economists

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Speaker 3: and others.

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Speaker 1: Basically, what he's.

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Speaker 3: Saying, the more like conservative faction is saying it's ridiculous, quote,

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Speaker 3: disconnected from reality, laughable to put poverty line far above

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Speaker 3: the median income in the United States, which is some

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Speaker 3: eighty three thousand dollars. But the thing is is that

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Speaker 3: if you read it, it does make sense to me.

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Speaker 3: The only quibble is about the definition of poverty. So

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Speaker 3: the question is is does poverty mean destitute or does

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Speaker 3: it mean not getting by. I guess we've learned of

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Speaker 3: it as destitute, but not getting by for a long

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Speaker 3: enough period, I don't know. I mean, maybe it does

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Speaker 3: count as poverty, yah, And I think that's one of them.

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Speaker 3: And by the way, that's why part of the whole

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Speaker 3: discussion is really frustrating. And anybody who has lived in

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Speaker 3: a high cost of living area, we all know people

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Speaker 3: making one hundred two even two hundred thousand who are

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Speaker 3: not close to making it, like, not close to achieving

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Speaker 3: even modestly more than what their parents did. I'm not

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Speaker 3: gonna say sit here and call it poverty, but I

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Speaker 3: would sit here and say that's a systemic failure. And

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Speaker 3: that's part of why I appreciate the essay because all

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Speaker 3: the matter, you guys should go read it, just specifically

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Speaker 3: about the way that he breaks down all the costs,

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Speaker 3: the cost all the costs basic necessities, which we've talked

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Speaker 3: about here before as well. The fact is is like

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Speaker 3: upward mobility, especially in a higher cost of living areas,

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Speaker 3: which no, you don't have to live there, but that

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Speaker 3: is for most of the economic activity is mostly unattainable

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Speaker 3: for anybody who makes a median household income that's a

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Speaker 3: systemic issue, and it didn't always used to be like that.

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Speaker 1: That's the bottom line.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And so here are his estimates of using what

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Speaker 2: he describes as conservative national average data of the baseline costs,

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Speaker 2: the sort of like participation costs, so that you can

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Speaker 2: be in you know, normal standing in society and participate

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Speaker 2: in like a normal way with society. Childcare most expensive

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Speaker 2: thirty two thousand and seven seventy three thirty two thousand

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Speaker 2: dollars per childcare, housing twenty three thousand, plus food fourteen thousand,

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Speaker 2: plus transportation fourteen thousand, plus healthcare ten k, other essentials

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Speaker 2: twenty one k required net income one eighteen and then

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Speaker 2: you add taxes on top of that, you're getting one

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Speaker 2: thirty six, five hundred. That's where he gets the numbers from,

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Speaker 2: and he says, you know, listen, the quibble that I

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Speaker 2: get from people is, you know, yes, it's good to

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Speaker 2: reevaluate where the poverty line is. I think everybody agrees

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Speaker 2: that the way of calculating is certainly outdated on I

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Speaker 2: can go into more on that in a moment, but

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Speaker 2: they're like, listen, you know, if you're if you're getting

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Speaker 2: a landline, you know, you're you're putting in things here

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Speaker 2: that are way more expensive than just the essentials. So

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Speaker 2: but Key points out, in order to participate in society,

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Speaker 2: like back when the poverty line was established, you needed

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Speaker 2: a land line, which costs you, you know, a.

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Speaker 4: Minimal amount per month.

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Speaker 2: Now the same landline is even cheaper, but that doesn't

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Speaker 2: allow you to fully participate in society. You need that

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Speaker 2: two hundred dollars smartphone. And so while certain costs have

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Speaker 2: gone down, the cost of being a full participant in

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Speaker 2: society has gone up dramatically. And then of course these

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Speaker 2: categories have gone through the roof. All of these areas,

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Speaker 2: except for food, are places where you know, costs have

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Speaker 2: gone up and up and up. We talk all the

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Speaker 2: time about childcare, housing, This does any factor in the

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Speaker 2: cost of you know, a college education, which is another

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Speaker 2: extraordinary expense. And so this helps to capture why so

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Speaker 2: many people who when you look at their income, you're like,

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Speaker 2: you should be doing fine. Why so many people are like, no,

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Speaker 2: but I'm drowning, but like life is really difficult, and

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Speaker 2: I feel like I'm getting behind, and I feel like

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Speaker 2: things are going to be more difficult for my children.

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Speaker 4: So it's a very fascinating.

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Speaker 2: Look, you know, with regard to the poverty line, what

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Speaker 2: he points out is when it was established, food was

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Speaker 2: made up about a third of overall spending, So the

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Speaker 2: poverty line was established as three times whatever the average

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Speaker 2: food budget was, and they have kept that metric the

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Speaker 2: whole time, even though now food is only maybe five

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Speaker 2: or six percent of the overall budget because these other

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Speaker 2: categories have increased in costs so much. And also, you know,

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Speaker 2: childcare that used to not be something that needed to

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Speaker 2: be considered at all because you typically had a one

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Speaker 2: income family. That income was sufficient for this level of life,

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Speaker 2: baseline societal participation, and if you had childcare, it was

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Speaker 2: like relatives usually who would or neighbors who would take

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Speaker 2: care and look after the kids. So now that you

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Speaker 2: basically have to have two incomes in most instances in

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Speaker 2: order to make it in society. That second income it's

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Speaker 2: not like that's all just going to the bottom line.

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Speaker 2: The first thirty two thousand dollars of that second income

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Speaker 2: is just going straight to some other person to take

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Speaker 2: care of your kids. That's the first part. So then

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Speaker 2: you have to be clearing more than that to even

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Speaker 2: make the second job worthwhile. And that's the other you know,

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Speaker 2: that's like the two income trap. That's like the hidden.

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Speaker 4: Costs that have been added on to families.

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Speaker 2: And then the other thing that he points out, which is,

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Speaker 2: you know, part of why I support universal programs versus

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Speaker 2: this like neoliberal, piecemeal social safety net thing that we

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Speaker 2: do is that if you are very low income, life

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Speaker 2: is going to be difficult. I'm not saying you've got

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Speaker 2: it easy, but you do have some government supports. Right,

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Speaker 2: You're going to be qualified for SNAP, You're going to

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Speaker 2: qualify for Medicaid, You're going to get subsidies with regards

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Speaker 2: to childcare as well.

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Speaker 4: There's going to be some help.

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Speaker 2: And at certain levels, as you climb up the income scale,

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Speaker 2: there are these cliffs where Okay, now I'm not getting SNAPPED,

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Speaker 2: so now that all is on me, Okay, So whatever

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Speaker 2: income I'm earning, I have to subtract out of that

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Speaker 2: what I was previously getting. Okay, Now I go up

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Speaker 2: with another level. Now I'm not getting Medicaid anymore. I

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Speaker 2: have to pull pay full freight for healthcare. That's an

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Speaker 2: extraordinary expense. So whatever additional I'm earning is basically all

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Speaker 2: being eaten up by those additional costs, and you can

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Speaker 2: see how that allows politicians to turn middle class or

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Speaker 2: working poor people against the very poor, because they're like,

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Speaker 2: this is not fair. This person's working less than me

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Speaker 2: and getting way more, And they're right, it's not fair.

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Speaker 2: But the problem isn't that person who is also struggling.

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Speaker 2: The problem is the design of the system. And the

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Speaker 2: problem is that, you know, those who have rigged the

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Speaker 2: system for their benefit and keeping everybody miserated in this way.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean the way I always look at it,

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Speaker 3: especially with this one, is not only the two income trap,

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Speaker 3: but also the prison of a lot of this for you.

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Speaker 3: You're damned if you do, and you really are damned

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Speaker 3: if you don't. Also, thirty thousand dollars, we'd be lucky.

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Speaker 3: After thirty thousand dollars childcare where I live we have

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Speaker 3: been I think the seventh highest in the United States SEC,

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Speaker 3: which is only beaten in Northern Virginia by Arlington, which

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Speaker 3: is number one in the whole of America. Hearing the

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Speaker 3: DMB one hundred and fifty k over a five year period.

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Speaker 3: So the point though it actually I think it might

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Speaker 3: be might be one sixth crazy, So it is crazy

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Speaker 3: and that's after taxing a house. It is ouse in

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Speaker 3: some places in this country. But that's the issue. What

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Speaker 3: you see inside of this is not only from housing

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Speaker 3: but also healthcare. Because he says ten k I'm lucky

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Speaker 3: for paid ten thousand dollars for health insurance.

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Speaker 1: That's a long dream. After you have a child, If.

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Speaker 3: You have employer sponsored healthcare, I guess you're lucky to

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Speaker 3: pay for it, even though technically is part of your

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Speaker 3: own benefit package. So the total cost of what could

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Speaker 3: be your wages is much lower. And when you really

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Speaker 3: dig down into his logic, I just think it's like

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Speaker 3: very obvious that really what people are quibbling about is

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Speaker 3: the definition of poverty, and what we should be talking

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Speaker 3: about is making it and if you don't make it

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Speaker 3: for long enough and whatever, really be convinced. If you

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Speaker 3: don't make it enough in the period of between twenty

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Speaker 3: years old and thirty five, I actually I'm not going

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Speaker 3: to say you're screwed, because like anyone can beat the odds,

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Speaker 3: but statistically, those are the most formative best years of

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Speaker 3: your life where you're laying the foundation that you can

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Speaker 3: build something on top of. And if you miss that

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Speaker 3: period where everything is on a downward trajectory, which is

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Speaker 3: where I think things are right now. Then you're going

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Speaker 3: to end up in an area at thirty five forty

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Speaker 3: forty two, which is where some of these first time

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Speaker 3: home buyers are, and you're just way more behind schedule,

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Speaker 3: which delays all kinds of things societally and creates just

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Speaker 3: a deep amount of problems. So the point of his

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Speaker 3: essay was, I think it was a wake up call

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Speaker 3: for elites who are in charge, and especially boomers.

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Speaker 1: Again, you know, guys know, I hate on boom rebel.

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Speaker 3: Part of the thing that drives me crazy is that

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Speaker 3: typical boomer ratitude of like, oh, just figure it out

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Speaker 3: when you're in college or something. They don't look at

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Speaker 3: overall educational inflation. They have no idea what it's like

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Speaker 3: for people to be graduating a twenty thirty forty fifty

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Speaker 3: thousand dollars in debt at a seven percent interest rate,

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Speaker 3: and especially if you have a graduate degree, if you're

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Speaker 3: pursuing something like that, that's just debt in the student

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Speaker 3: loan realm applies though even at the more basic level,

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Speaker 3: everyone always talks about trade school and accreditations. Accreditations are expensive,

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Speaker 3: you know, they're not cheap, and so even whenever you

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Speaker 3: take out loans for that, then if you have to

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Speaker 3: meet your you have to meet your payment obligation. You're

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Speaker 3: on a newer salary, you're making this. If our cost

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Speaker 3: of housing is some fifty sixty percent higher, then you

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Speaker 3: have no idea what it's like to live on that

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Speaker 3: very thin margin. And that's just not where things used

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Speaker 3: to be. The one thing I will give them is

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Speaker 3: I do think that we need to readjust a lot

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Speaker 3: of expectations, because this is something I've been thinking about

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Speaker 3: with the whole starter home thing. A lot of starter

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Speaker 3: homes from the nineteen seventies and nineteen eighties would not

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Speaker 3: pass as something that builders would want to do anymore

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Speaker 3: because they build big, more luxury items because people are

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Speaker 3: buying homes are mostly richer and have a lot more money.

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Speaker 3: We do need to bring back those Levittown models of

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Speaker 3: like fifteen hundred, two thousand square foot houses which are

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Speaker 3: not look they're not like nice.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's not like full of marble and a

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Speaker 1: bunch of other shit. But who cares?

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Speaker 3: Like the boys place to park the car, modest area

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Speaker 3: in the back, enough space, dining table in a kitchen,

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Speaker 3: that's it, all right. Yeah, you're not gonna have a

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Speaker 3: palatial living room. That's okay. I think most people would

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Speaker 3: sign up for that, I really do. But that option

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Speaker 3: doesn't exist just.

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Speaker 2: To be renting forever and like throwing money to a

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Speaker 2: landlord instead of ever building any wealth and getting on

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Speaker 2: that home ownership ladder like of course, but that, yeah,

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Speaker 2: there's a giant hole in the market. And yeah, because

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Speaker 2: it doesn't, it's not as profitable for developers, so it's

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Speaker 2: not what they pursue, which is why you have to

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Speaker 2: get the government directly involved in some fashion. I think

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Speaker 2: the childcare part of this is so important to highlight,

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Speaker 2: and a couple things that I've been thinking of from

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Speaker 2: a policy perspective. Childcare was part of the Build Back

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Speaker 2: Better bill that ends up getting killed under Biden, so

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Speaker 2: you know, real missed opportunity there to actually do something

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Speaker 2: that could have had such a tremendous benefit for families

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Speaker 2: across this country. And it's also I think an undersung

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Speaker 2: part of Zorn's agenda in New York. You know, I

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Speaker 2: think the buses and the rent freeze and the grocery

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Speaker 2: stores got more attention, but much more transformational actually would

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Speaker 2: be the Affordable Childcare proposal, which he's trying to work

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Speaker 2: with Kathy Hochlan to get implemented. If he's able to

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Speaker 2: do that in New York City, it would be such

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Speaker 2: a huge deal and such a big win for those families.

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Speaker 2: And the other thing that this guy points out is, hey,

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Speaker 2: you know, we talked about COVID, We talked about the

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Speaker 2: stimulus checks, and you know, as an explanation for why

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Speaker 2: people had more money in their bank accounts, that's certainly

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Speaker 2: part of it, and the super doll at all those

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Speaker 2: sorts of things. But one thing that we really didn't

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Speaker 2: account for or talk that much about is the fact

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Speaker 2: that people were at home so they did not need

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Speaker 2: to pay for childcare.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and there was a mini baby boom at that time.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so this gigantic, this gigantic expense, the single largest

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Speaker 2: budget item for most any family that was taken off

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Speaker 2: the table and people did not have to pay that.

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Speaker 4: No, it was stressful in many ways.

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Speaker 2: I'm to go with your kids while you're trying to

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Speaker 2: be on your zoom call or whatever. But financially, you

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Speaker 2: saw bank accounts got larger for many people during that period,

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Speaker 2: for most people, and so I think that that was

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Speaker 2: an underreported and discussed benefit of COVID. I mean, you know,

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Speaker 2: a silver lining sort of, and one of the reasons

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Speaker 2: why there were these sort of contradictory economic indicators, because

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Speaker 2: just not having a pay childcare was such an incredible

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Speaker 2: boon for people, and you're not eating out at work,

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Speaker 2: and you're not having to pay for gas or as

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Speaker 2: much maintenance on your car because you're just at home.

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Speaker 2: So altering that expense landscape was really transformational for a

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Speaker 2: lot of people.

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Speaker 3: And those were twenty twenty prices. Now imagine the current prices.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, my god, every time you go out to eat.

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Speaker 1: Blow yourself in the head. Is this even worth it?

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Speaker 5: Is?

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Speaker 1: I don't even drink and my bills like fifty dollars.

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Speaker 4: And you're like, well, it's not a level.

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Speaker 1: Right, that's right?

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Speaker 3: Seriously, Like when you don't drink alcohol and the bills

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Speaker 3: start tipping up near the one.

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Speaker 1: Hundred dollars, You're like, what the fuck is going on?

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Speaker 1: It used to be like twenty dollars. But I'm not

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Speaker 1: faulting the restaurants. I get it, you make money.

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Speaker 4: It's my fault.

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Speaker 1: The childcare thing.

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Speaker 3: The one thing I would do want to say is

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Speaker 3: as I've said, I truly believe free childcare as in

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Speaker 3: other people paying is not a good idea. I think

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Speaker 3: what it should be is to preserve optionality, as in

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Speaker 3: basically like a voucher or a tax credit system. So

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Speaker 3: if people don't want to work mom more dad, then

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Speaker 3: they can be paid to do that, or you can

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Speaker 3: spend that dollar and you can go spend it a childcare,

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Speaker 3: but you need to cap a cost. This is a

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Speaker 3: program that's been implemented in various other countries.

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Speaker 1: It's been very successful.

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Speaker 3: The point though, is that if you subsidize only childcare,

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Speaker 3: it actually screws over the non working mother or father

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Speaker 3: because it means that they don't get the subsidy. It's

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Speaker 3: kind of a societal design that pushes people into the

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Speaker 3: workplace if they don't want to be. So the thing

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Speaker 3: is like we have to design this child task credit

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Speaker 3: was a very rudimentary form of this. The point though,

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Speaker 3: is you have to make it very specifically so people

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Speaker 3: can do the family unit the way they want to do.

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Speaker 3: And there's a lot of data that a lot of

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Speaker 3: women and men would not work if they didn't have to.

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Speaker 3: Most people, a lot of peop wouldn't work if they

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Speaker 3: have to. The point, though, is not to say to

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Speaker 3: say nobody should work. It's to say what's easier whenever

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Speaker 3: you actually want to have a kid. That's why the

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Speaker 3: mini baby boom under COVID is criminally understudied. It happened

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Speaker 3: for a reason, Like you just said, there's a lot

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Speaker 3: less stress, people had more money in their bank accounts.

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Speaker 1: It's pretty obvious. Now.

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Speaker 3: I'm not sitting here saying that the Hungarian model or

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Speaker 3: throwing money at all of this is going to boost

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Speaker 3: the fertility rate over two point five percent.

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Speaker 1: Like that's not going to happen.

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Speaker 3: That there's a lot there's too much evidence that throwing

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Speaker 3: money and making it acceptable just simply is not really

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Speaker 3: enough to compete with modernity. But that doesn't mean that

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Speaker 3: you shouldn't try to get marginally.

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Speaker 4: Better, that you shouldn't make life easier.

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Speaker 1: Right, exact families, Right, it's not a good reason, even.

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Speaker 4: If it's not.

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Speaker 2: You know, so they breed more, but just so that

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Speaker 2: there the quality of life is better. I mean, I

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Speaker 2: let's put the next piece up.

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Speaker 4: On the screen.

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Speaker 2: So much of the illusion of prosperity in America is

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Speaker 2: just like a figment of our imagination. So I saw

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Speaker 2: these headlines after Black Friday of like, oh, Broad Friday

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Speaker 2: spending is up, Like, oh, that's interesting.

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Speaker 4: Maybe that's a good sign.

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Speaker 2: But then you start to dig into the numbers and

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Speaker 2: here's business Insider, they say that Black Friday shoppers are

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Speaker 2: now relying more on buy now, pay later plans. Here's

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Speaker 2: how that could backfire and put the next piece up

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Speaker 2: on the screen. This this person on Carlson on Twitter

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Speaker 2: or Cochrane, sorry, broke down a bunch of the numbers here.

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Speaker 2: So he says, yes, there was a nine point one

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Speaker 2: increase in spending on Black Friday from last year, but

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Speaker 2: there was a negative one percent in total item volume

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Speaker 2: from last year. Prices we're seven percent higher. Consumers bought

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Speaker 2: on average four percent fewer items, so they spent more

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Speaker 2: than they got less.

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Speaker 4: Okay, that's number one.

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Speaker 2: And an eleven percent in on buy now, pay later use.

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Speaker 2: Klarna Specific which is one of these buy now, pay

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Speaker 2: later companies. Specific use was up forty five percent by

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Speaker 2: volume since last year. Roughly eleven percent of all Black

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Speaker 2: Friday spending was financed through BNPL and eighty four percent

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Speaker 2: of all purchases were financed by credit cards, where most

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Speaker 2: sixty seven percent of those consumers expect to not pay

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Speaker 2: the full bounce in the first month. So overall, a

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Speaker 2: total of ninety five percent a Black Friday shopping was

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Speaker 2: financed ninety five percent and sixty seven percent of that

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Speaker 2: was financed on debt that consumers do not expect to

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Speaker 2: be able to pay in the next thirty days.

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Speaker 4: Because this is one thing.

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Speaker 2: If your habit is just I put it on the

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Speaker 2: credit card and they pay off the whole credit car

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Speaker 2: points or we're not like okay, but we're talking about

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Speaker 2: two thirds that are saying, no, I am putting this,

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Speaker 2: I am taking on more debt to buy the Christmas shopping,

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Speaker 2: the gifts, and I do not expect that I will

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Speaker 2: be able to pay that off in the next thirty days.

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Speaker 2: And then he appined, which I think is just an

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Speaker 2: inevitable outcome of this. This is the sign of a

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Speaker 2: weakening and stretched consumer.

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Speaker 4: So you know, the top.

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Speaker 2: Line number, oh Black Friday sales, you're spending was up.

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Speaker 2: Consumers must be doing fine. But you dig one layer

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Speaker 2: deeper and you see people taking on more or more debt,

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Speaker 2: spending more and getting less and being unable to pay

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Speaker 2: those those debt balances off in the next thirty days.

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Speaker 3: Oh this is where my inner Dave Ramsey comes out though.

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Speaker 3: It's like, what are we doing doing Black Friday shop?

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Speaker 3: And when two thirds of people are it's like, you

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Speaker 3: shouldn't be buying. I mean, that's where the person will,

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Speaker 3: but I.

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Speaker 4: Think probably there's also a lot of people.

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Speaker 1: It drives me nuts.

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Speaker 2: I think there's probably also a lot of people who

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Speaker 2: have consolidated their shop into Black Friday to get the deals.

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Speaker 2: You just try to get the best, you know, the

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Speaker 2: best price they possibly could as also a cost saving mat.

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Speaker 3: At one point, let's do that debate in the future.

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Speaker 3: Did you see that Ramsey host Jade Warshaw? I love

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Speaker 3: her by the way she went on Fox News and

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Speaker 3: she's like, by the way, not all adults need Christmas gifts,

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Speaker 3: and I agree with her.

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Speaker 1: I agree with her.

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Speaker 3: Okay, pouring all this money into Amazon and Jeff Bezos's pocket,

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Speaker 3: you can get some gift that the guy barely's going

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Speaker 3: to open for your great uncle or something.

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Speaker 1: Sorry, it's fucking stupid.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 2: In my family, we've paired back this year where we're

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Speaker 2: doing everybody you know did like secret Sanna drawing, and

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Speaker 2: so instead of everybody buying for everybody, it's like, okay,

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Speaker 2: you're getting for this.

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Speaker 3: We do the same thing in my wife family. In

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Speaker 3: my family, we're like, we don't need gifts. Sorry, we're Indian,

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Speaker 3: We're not you know, we don't need to sell my credit.

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Speaker 3: That's the way it should be now, if you want to.

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Speaker 3: But just in general, though, the amount of crap that

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Speaker 3: we pour into Black Friday, I mean, you could go

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Speaker 3: on Amazon today look at their Cyber Monday deals and

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Speaker 3: look through everything that you're supposedly saving money on then

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Speaker 3: and go check what the price was five years ago

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Speaker 3: and then be like, do you really actually need it?

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Speaker 3: That is one though, where people are way too comfortable

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Speaker 3: with credit card debt, and you know, you're just you're

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Speaker 3: digging yourself into a hole which is very, very hard

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Speaker 3: to get out of. And that's but at the same time,

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Speaker 3: I get it, you know, I talk here about weed

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Speaker 3: and sports, gambling and all that stuff. If you've got

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Speaker 3: nothing else going on in your life and buying cheap

438
00:19:56,000 --> 00:19:59,119
Speaker 3: shit at Target or on Amazon makes you feel better,

439
00:19:59,200 --> 00:20:00,280
Speaker 3: I do understand.

440
00:20:00,400 --> 00:20:01,639
Speaker 1: Like where that can well, this is like.

441
00:20:01,640 --> 00:20:02,560
Speaker 4: Our social contract.

442
00:20:03,040 --> 00:20:04,959
Speaker 2: You're not going to own a home, but you can

443
00:20:05,000 --> 00:20:07,199
Speaker 2: get some random shit at Walmart. Like that is the

444
00:20:07,240 --> 00:20:09,960
Speaker 2: social contract that we have been given. So no, I

445
00:20:09,960 --> 00:20:12,960
Speaker 2: don't blame people for availing themselves of the only petiphit.

446
00:20:14,119 --> 00:20:16,000
Speaker 3: I'm gonna give them a little bit of blame putting

447
00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:18,080
Speaker 3: yourself in a credit card. There's that viral video that

448
00:20:18,080 --> 00:20:20,320
Speaker 3: the Ramsey team just did of Disney where they went

449
00:20:20,359 --> 00:20:21,919
Speaker 3: to Disney and they're like, how much debt people have?

450
00:20:22,119 --> 00:20:24,520
Speaker 1: People have one hundred thousand dollars debt going in Disney. Yeah,

451
00:20:24,680 --> 00:20:27,159
Speaker 1: but yeah, people, Look, I'm raised Indian. We don't do that.

452
00:20:27,200 --> 00:20:29,120
Speaker 4: Want their Christmas to be special.

453
00:20:28,920 --> 00:20:29,119
Speaker 3: You know.

454
00:20:29,240 --> 00:20:30,879
Speaker 4: I mean, it's a lot of plan you got it.

455
00:20:30,920 --> 00:20:34,560
Speaker 2: There's a lot of pressure on parents to make it memorable.

456
00:20:35,080 --> 00:20:36,960
Speaker 2: And it's a very consumerist society.

457
00:20:37,240 --> 00:20:40,160
Speaker 1: So it's it's a sidal problem I get.

458
00:20:40,200 --> 00:20:44,040
Speaker 3: But you know, be a hero and stand up for

459
00:20:44,080 --> 00:20:47,040
Speaker 3: your for don't go into debt. Make sure your children

460
00:20:47,040 --> 00:20:48,439
Speaker 3: don't have to grow up in a debt f re asshole.

461
00:20:48,520 --> 00:20:51,200
Speaker 3: But look, at the same time, I'm gonna shame people

462
00:20:51,200 --> 00:20:54,760
Speaker 3: too hard because we can't talk too much about poverty

463
00:20:54,840 --> 00:20:57,040
Speaker 3: and the system and how it's all rigged against you.

464
00:20:57,200 --> 00:20:59,080
Speaker 3: If the only outlet you have is some twenty eight

465
00:20:59,080 --> 00:21:02,160
Speaker 3: percent you know, interest credit card debt to buy some

466
00:21:02,359 --> 00:21:06,159
Speaker 3: new headphones or PS five or whatever. I do understand

467
00:21:06,359 --> 00:21:09,439
Speaker 3: how things would get channeled into that. And that's ultimately why, Like,

468
00:21:09,760 --> 00:21:12,479
Speaker 3: who's the villain in this discussion, which I think is

469
00:21:12,600 --> 00:21:13,240
Speaker 3: totally fair.

470
00:21:15,840 --> 00:21:19,600
Speaker 2: Speaking of villains, Yes, indeed, so Trump has pardoned a

471
00:21:19,640 --> 00:21:22,600
Speaker 2: new fraudster. Seems to have a soft spot for them.

472
00:21:23,119 --> 00:21:28,000
Speaker 2: Perhaps he sees kindred spirits here. And Caroline Levitt yesterday

473
00:21:28,040 --> 00:21:30,560
Speaker 2: got asked about this particular commutation. So this was this

474
00:21:30,640 --> 00:21:33,639
Speaker 2: guy who basically ran Ponzi scheme, defrauded, you know, was

475
00:21:33,640 --> 00:21:35,800
Speaker 2: found guilty of defrauding over there world. Over one thousand

476
00:21:35,880 --> 00:21:38,760
Speaker 2: people who testified to those submitted statements to the court

477
00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:41,680
Speaker 2: talking about the way that he'd stolen their life savings.

478
00:21:41,720 --> 00:21:44,240
Speaker 2: And we're talking we're not talking about billionaires here. There's

479
00:21:44,359 --> 00:21:46,800
Speaker 2: like teachers and nurses and firefighters and stuff who had

480
00:21:46,800 --> 00:21:49,800
Speaker 2: their life ruined by this dude. Trump decided that he

481
00:21:49,880 --> 00:21:53,960
Speaker 2: deserved a commutation of his sentence. Carolinelevitt got asked about that.

482
00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:56,879
Speaker 2: List t Listen, why did the president commute the sentence

483
00:21:56,920 --> 00:21:59,440
Speaker 2: of David Gentimeow recently used a private executive.

484
00:21:59,560 --> 00:22:02,119
Speaker 5: Private the executive he served twelve days out of a

485
00:22:02,160 --> 00:22:04,760
Speaker 5: seven year sentence. The prosecutor said he to fraud it

486
00:22:05,080 --> 00:22:12,520
Speaker 5: one point six billion dollars with thousands of victims, including veterans, farmers, teachers.

487
00:22:12,080 --> 00:22:13,160
Speaker 1: And why was supported.

488
00:22:13,480 --> 00:22:17,000
Speaker 6: He issued a commutation for mister Gentile, who's the former

489
00:22:17,040 --> 00:22:22,040
Speaker 6: CEO and co founder of GBP Capital Holdings. Unlike similar companies,

490
00:22:22,119 --> 00:22:27,280
Speaker 6: GBP paid regular, annualized distributions to its investors. In twenty fifteen,

491
00:22:27,480 --> 00:22:31,880
Speaker 6: GBP disclosed to investors the possibility of using investor capital

492
00:22:31,920 --> 00:22:34,720
Speaker 6: to pay some of these distributions rather than funding them

493
00:22:34,720 --> 00:22:38,440
Speaker 6: from current operations. Even though this was disclosed to investors,

494
00:22:38,440 --> 00:22:41,320
Speaker 6: the Biden Department of Justice claimed it was a Ponzi scheme.

495
00:22:41,640 --> 00:22:44,680
Speaker 6: This claim was profoundly undercut by the fact that GBP

496
00:22:44,840 --> 00:22:48,560
Speaker 6: had explicitly told investors what would happen at trial. The

497
00:22:48,600 --> 00:22:52,679
Speaker 6: government was unable to tie any supposedly fraudulent representations to

498
00:22:52,760 --> 00:22:55,760
Speaker 6: mister Gentile. In short, again, this is another example that

499
00:22:55,800 --> 00:22:58,640
Speaker 6: has been brought to the President's attention of a weaponization

500
00:22:58,720 --> 00:23:02,159
Speaker 6: of justice from the previously, and therefore he signed this commutation.

501
00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:04,040
Speaker 4: Let's put eat three up on the screen.

502
00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:06,119
Speaker 2: So I can get into some of the details of

503
00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:10,080
Speaker 2: what this guy was convicted of. So the headline here

504
00:23:10,160 --> 00:23:14,280
Speaker 2: is Trump freeze fraudster just days into his seven year

505
00:23:14,280 --> 00:23:16,919
Speaker 2: prison sentence. By the way, this guy was convicted alongside

506
00:23:16,960 --> 00:23:20,400
Speaker 2: his partner. The partner is still in prison serving the sentence.

507
00:23:20,600 --> 00:23:23,159
Speaker 2: He had a lesser sentence than this guy, but he

508
00:23:23,240 --> 00:23:25,119
Speaker 2: did not get the commutation. And be pretty pissed if

509
00:23:25,119 --> 00:23:28,040
Speaker 2: I was that guy anyway, they say. In court filings,

510
00:23:28,320 --> 00:23:32,040
Speaker 2: prosecutors said that mister Gentile and mister Schneider, over several years,

511
00:23:32,160 --> 00:23:35,760
Speaker 2: used private equity funds controlled by mister Gentiles company g

512
00:23:35,760 --> 00:23:41,800
Speaker 2: GPB Capital, to defraud ten thousand investors by misrepresenting the

513
00:23:41,800 --> 00:23:43,960
Speaker 2: performance of the funds and the source of money used

514
00:23:43,960 --> 00:23:47,160
Speaker 2: to make monthly distribution payments. More than a thousand people

515
00:23:47,240 --> 00:23:50,960
Speaker 2: submitted statements attesting to their losses, courting prosecutors who characterize

516
00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:55,920
Speaker 2: the victims as hardworking everyday people, including small business owners, farmers, veterans, teachers, nurses.

517
00:23:56,280 --> 00:23:59,000
Speaker 2: I lost my whole life savings, one broade, adding I

518
00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:02,600
Speaker 2: am living from to check in a statement after the sentencing.

519
00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:05,399
Speaker 2: In May, Joseph Nescella Junior, the US attorney in the

520
00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:07,480
Speaker 2: Eastern District of New York said mister Gentile and mister

521
00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:11,360
Speaker 2: Schneider had raised approximately one point six billion dollars from

522
00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:15,600
Speaker 2: individual investors based on false promises of generating investment returns

523
00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:19,119
Speaker 2: from the profits of portfolio companies, all while using investor

524
00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:24,440
Speaker 2: capital to pay distributions and create a false appearance of success.

525
00:24:24,680 --> 00:24:27,680
Speaker 2: The sentences, mister Noscella added, were a warning to would

526
00:24:27,680 --> 00:24:30,120
Speaker 2: be fraudsters that seeking to get rich by taking advantage

527
00:24:30,119 --> 00:24:33,520
Speaker 2: of investors gets you a one way ticket to jail. So,

528
00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:37,360
Speaker 2: I mean, the structure of this classic Ponzi scheme, take

529
00:24:37,440 --> 00:24:40,399
Speaker 2: in a bunch of money, make a bunch of big promises,

530
00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:45,000
Speaker 2: and then instead of actually developed, you know, generating returns

531
00:24:45,320 --> 00:24:48,720
Speaker 2: that you can use to pay off your investors, instead

532
00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:52,800
Speaker 2: they just would use new investors' money to pay off

533
00:24:52,840 --> 00:24:56,320
Speaker 2: the old investors. That's what's called a Ponzi scheme, and

534
00:24:56,440 --> 00:24:59,320
Speaker 2: that is what this guy was found guilty of. So,

535
00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:03,680
Speaker 2: you know, we haven't discerned in this particular case whether

536
00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:05,720
Speaker 2: there was some direct you know, whether this guy was

537
00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:09,159
Speaker 2: friends with Don Junior, paid some whoever who was hunting

538
00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:11,720
Speaker 2: buddies with him, or you know, friends with Peter. We

539
00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:15,399
Speaker 2: haven't discerned what that particular connection was. But we have

540
00:25:15,480 --> 00:25:19,359
Speaker 2: seen a pattern in this administration of fraudsters, and specifically

541
00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:23,000
Speaker 2: fraudsters with direct connections to Donald Trump, getting let off

542
00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:24,520
Speaker 2: the hook for their white collar crimes.

543
00:25:24,560 --> 00:25:25,960
Speaker 4: And it is quite disgusting.

544
00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:29,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, if you read after they say he raised one

545
00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:33,720
Speaker 3: point six billion from individual investors based on false pretenses

546
00:25:34,040 --> 00:25:37,080
Speaker 3: and investment. It's just literally as classic as a Ponzi

547
00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:39,359
Speaker 3: scheme as it gets. But the White House is saying

548
00:25:39,400 --> 00:25:42,919
Speaker 3: it's actually not. So why are they getting involved in

549
00:25:43,160 --> 00:25:46,160
Speaker 3: whether something is a Ponzi scheme or not? Is it

550
00:25:46,359 --> 00:25:50,720
Speaker 3: maybe because somebody influential helped to convince them? As you said,

551
00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:53,080
Speaker 3: I would love to see the behind the scenes on that.

552
00:25:53,119 --> 00:25:55,040
Speaker 3: You don't just get a commutation from the President of

553
00:25:55,040 --> 00:25:58,160
Speaker 3: the United States, especially from this one, without somebody somewhere

554
00:25:58,359 --> 00:26:00,720
Speaker 3: saying something. And by the way, this is part of

555
00:26:00,760 --> 00:26:03,200
Speaker 3: the issue. This is all part of a pattern now

556
00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:04,760
Speaker 3: of a lot of these paid to play.

557
00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:06,200
Speaker 1: Let's go to the next one. Please.

558
00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:09,520
Speaker 3: This is about this Ponzi schemer who got Trump clemency

559
00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:12,560
Speaker 3: then got a new thirty seven year term. Did you

560
00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:15,760
Speaker 3: guys hear me correctly? Is that a convicted Ponzi schemer

561
00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:19,280
Speaker 3: whose twenty four ear prison term was commuted by Trump

562
00:26:19,280 --> 00:26:22,960
Speaker 3: in twenty twenty one, was sentenced to another thirty seven

563
00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:26,920
Speaker 3: years behind bars for stealing forty four million dollars from

564
00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:31,760
Speaker 3: investors after he was released. Ellie Yahu Weinstein was sentenced

565
00:26:31,760 --> 00:26:35,080
Speaker 3: Friday for deep rauding investors who believed their money was

566
00:26:35,119 --> 00:26:39,879
Speaker 3: buying COVID nineteen baby form my nineteen mass baby Formula

567
00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:44,159
Speaker 3: one first aid kids bound for Ukraine instead use the

568
00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:48,480
Speaker 3: money to repay early investors and for personal expenses like

569
00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:52,040
Speaker 3: gambling in casinos and buying real estate.

570
00:26:52,119 --> 00:26:56,200
Speaker 2: That incdible, despicable, Yeah, incredible. And the other thing when

571
00:26:56,200 --> 00:26:58,520
Speaker 2: we were preparing for this segment, the thing that was

572
00:26:58,560 --> 00:27:01,399
Speaker 2: crazy to me is like I didn't even like this

573
00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:04,520
Speaker 2: guy who got reconvicted and is just like doing schemes

574
00:27:04,600 --> 00:27:08,040
Speaker 2: instantly after Trump, you know, originally commutes his sentence. I

575
00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:10,720
Speaker 2: didn't see news articles about that, and another time that

576
00:27:10,720 --> 00:27:12,720
Speaker 2: would be a huge scandal. And then put this next

577
00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:14,800
Speaker 2: one up on the screen. This is E five. This

578
00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:17,919
Speaker 2: was another one. I mean, it barely broke through that

579
00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:22,160
Speaker 2: this even happened. This tax cheat who got pardoned after

580
00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:25,280
Speaker 2: his mom, who's a big fundraiser for Trump in general

581
00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:28,720
Speaker 2: and attended this one million dollar dinner. After she goes

582
00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:32,359
Speaker 2: to this dinner, lo and behold her son gets a pardon.

583
00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:36,520
Speaker 2: Oh gee, wonder how that happened? The allegation, not even

584
00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:38,800
Speaker 2: the allegation. I mean, he was convicted of this. This

585
00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:41,520
Speaker 2: guy was running and there was actually his mother and

586
00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:45,720
Speaker 2: him were running this nursing home conglomerate. And do you

587
00:27:45,800 --> 00:27:48,920
Speaker 2: know how you're supposed to as a business owner withhold

588
00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:51,359
Speaker 2: taxes from your employees that you send to the federal

589
00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:54,720
Speaker 2: government and then you know, then they pay off whether

590
00:27:54,760 --> 00:27:56,240
Speaker 2: they have to pay more less at the end of

591
00:27:56,280 --> 00:27:58,919
Speaker 2: the year. But there's you know, tax withholding. He was

592
00:27:58,960 --> 00:28:02,400
Speaker 2: withholding the money and just keeping it and spending it

593
00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:07,359
Speaker 2: on yachts and vacations and luxury goods and whatever, which

594
00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:11,600
Speaker 2: I'm like, not only obviously is that wildly unethical and

595
00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:15,280
Speaker 2: illegal and wrong, but how did you not know you

596
00:28:15,359 --> 00:28:18,719
Speaker 2: were gonna get caught like that? Is it seems to

597
00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:22,439
Speaker 2: me like something so easy for the irs to figure

598
00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:25,520
Speaker 2: out what's going on here? And so he commits these

599
00:28:25,720 --> 00:28:30,080
Speaker 2: this blatant fraud, just out and out steals cash from

600
00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:33,960
Speaker 2: his employees, spends it on yachts and vacations, et cetera,

601
00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:36,879
Speaker 2: and then gets a pardon from the president because his

602
00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:38,800
Speaker 2: mom does some fundraisings.

603
00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:40,280
Speaker 1: It is discussing.

604
00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:43,320
Speaker 2: I mean, we really genuinely like the pardon power is

605
00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:45,400
Speaker 2: out of control. And do I have any hope that

606
00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:47,720
Speaker 2: this is going to be changed? It requires constitutional amendment.

607
00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:48,560
Speaker 4: No, I do not.

608
00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:50,680
Speaker 2: But I saw Rocanna calling for Hey, we got it.

609
00:28:50,680 --> 00:28:52,800
Speaker 2: We got to do something about this because this is crazy.

610
00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:56,720
Speaker 2: And Trump of course takes it to the most grotesque level.

611
00:28:56,960 --> 00:28:59,200
Speaker 2: But it's not like he's the first to abuse the

612
00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:01,440
Speaker 2: pardon power. Worse, we saw what Biden did with it.

613
00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:04,040
Speaker 2: If Bill Clinton want to be partnered brother or whatever.

614
00:29:04,040 --> 00:29:06,720
Speaker 2: I mean, there's always like sketchy shit that happens with

615
00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:08,080
Speaker 2: the pardon power, especially at.

616
00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:11,640
Speaker 3: The end of the by the way, remember Michael Milkin

617
00:29:11,800 --> 00:29:15,000
Speaker 3: or any of these other people's right, Yeah, you like,

618
00:29:15,040 --> 00:29:18,000
Speaker 3: there's there's a lot like this. The origins of like

619
00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:22,360
Speaker 3: sketchy rich people buying pardons goes all the way back.

620
00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:24,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, And what it used to be is they would

621
00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:27,080
Speaker 2: do it like Biden did at the end of his term,

622
00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:29,120
Speaker 2: when it's like, ah, there's good people aren't gonna like this.

623
00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:31,680
Speaker 2: But whatever I'm on of here anyway. Now Trump is

624
00:29:31,760 --> 00:29:34,240
Speaker 2: just normalized. Now I'm just gonna parton the fraudsters and

625
00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:37,320
Speaker 2: the January sixth rioters and like all these white collar

626
00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:41,560
Speaker 2: fraudsters and Republican members of Congress like George Santos. I'm

627
00:29:41,560 --> 00:29:44,320
Speaker 2: just gonna do it all the time, and eventually there's

628
00:29:44,320 --> 00:29:46,240
Speaker 2: gonna be so many you're not even gonna keep track,

629
00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:47,560
Speaker 2: and you're not gonna really care anymore.

630
00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:49,840
Speaker 4: And this is just how it is. Do something about it.

631
00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:52,800
Speaker 2: I have this power, is like the power of the king,

632
00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:56,040
Speaker 2: and I'm going to use it to as such. And

633
00:29:56,080 --> 00:29:58,320
Speaker 2: it has a major implication we're about to talk about,

634
00:29:58,360 --> 00:29:59,760
Speaker 2: you know, Pete Hegseth and whatever.

635
00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:05,120
Speaker 4: Because anyone who is in Trump's good graces knows that they.

636
00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:09,720
Speaker 2: Can commit a legal acts and be like with impunity

637
00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:13,040
Speaker 2: because as long as they stay in his good graces,

638
00:30:13,520 --> 00:30:16,280
Speaker 2: then they are likely to get the benefit of the pardon,

639
00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:18,080
Speaker 2: so they don't really have to worry about whether or

640
00:30:18,080 --> 00:30:19,040
Speaker 2: not they're following the law.

641
00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:21,000
Speaker 4: It creates a whole class of people.

642
00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:24,920
Speaker 2: Around the king who can act with impunity because they

643
00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:27,440
Speaker 2: benefit from the King's favor and are able to do

644
00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:28,840
Speaker 2: whatever they want with no concert.

645
00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:31,160
Speaker 3: I mean, one of the things that people don't appreciate

646
00:30:31,280 --> 00:30:34,800
Speaker 3: is how monarchical the president can be. And the I

647
00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:36,840
Speaker 3: was kind of telling you is yesterday. The origins of

648
00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:40,120
Speaker 3: part and power go back to the time of the Constitution,

649
00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:44,640
Speaker 3: when the idea of a republican small R leader was

650
00:30:44,760 --> 00:30:47,480
Speaker 3: kind of anathema all across Europe. And so there were

651
00:30:47,520 --> 00:30:49,880
Speaker 3: a lot of debates for all of these people who

652
00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:52,560
Speaker 3: are former English subjects of like, how can we possibly

653
00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:57,160
Speaker 3: confer authority onto our leader who is democratically elected, but

654
00:30:57,200 --> 00:31:00,320
Speaker 3: who will retain the respect of the monarchs of Europe

655
00:31:00,320 --> 00:31:02,640
Speaker 3: who you know, they don't disappear until I don't know,

656
00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:06,200
Speaker 3: nineteen fourteen, for nineteen eighteen, right, so two hundred years

657
00:31:06,280 --> 00:31:09,240
Speaker 3: or one hundred fifty years or whatever after the Constitution

658
00:31:09,480 --> 00:31:12,560
Speaker 3: is actually being written. So they put in a lot

659
00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:15,080
Speaker 3: of these pardon powers, and it was actually was a

660
00:31:15,120 --> 00:31:18,520
Speaker 3: debate there at the time. What eventually basically comes through

661
00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:21,480
Speaker 3: is they're like, no, like because he's democratically elected and

662
00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:24,479
Speaker 3: ahe as a check against a judicial branch. But the

663
00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:28,000
Speaker 3: most convincing argument at the time was that the pardon

664
00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:33,600
Speaker 3: power was necessary to quell and to quash like post

665
00:31:33,960 --> 00:31:37,400
Speaker 3: like vindictive feelings after insurrection or rebellion.

666
00:31:37,440 --> 00:31:39,160
Speaker 1: So if you think back to Andrew.

667
00:31:38,920 --> 00:31:42,000
Speaker 3: Johnson or how Lincoln potentially would have used the pardon

668
00:31:42,080 --> 00:31:43,920
Speaker 3: if he had lived like that was one of the

669
00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:47,320
Speaker 3: arguments that really pushed through the Constitutional Convention. They did

670
00:31:47,360 --> 00:31:49,880
Speaker 3: though in envision they're like, what if the president uses

671
00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:52,880
Speaker 3: it to cover up treason and co conspirators. This was

672
00:31:52,960 --> 00:31:55,840
Speaker 3: raised by some of the Founding Fathers. Eventually didn't really

673
00:31:55,920 --> 00:31:57,560
Speaker 3: went out, but yeah, I mean I do think that

674
00:31:57,880 --> 00:31:59,480
Speaker 3: this is part of the problem that the pardon power

675
00:31:59,520 --> 00:32:02,840
Speaker 3: is crazy. It's actually insane. Yeah, And it's one of those.

676
00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:04,959
Speaker 2: Where at least you could I mean, you could imagine

677
00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:06,720
Speaker 2: a process where like it has to be approved by

678
00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:09,840
Speaker 2: Congress or something. But this just like, no, I'm going

679
00:32:09,920 --> 00:32:13,600
Speaker 2: to just give blanket immunity to anyone who's nice to me.

680
00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:16,080
Speaker 4: Creates a really fucked up sis totally.

681
00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:18,880
Speaker 3: And then you have multiple presidents who pardoned family members.

682
00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:22,560
Speaker 3: Roger Clinton that was a famous one back in the nineties,

683
00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:26,080
Speaker 3: I mean, Biden's pardon for hunters. Look, I know it

684
00:32:26,160 --> 00:32:28,640
Speaker 3: sounds quaint or whatever, but it's actually crazy. So like

685
00:32:28,720 --> 00:32:32,560
Speaker 3: any and all crimes you are absolved, how can you

686
00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:35,360
Speaker 3: possibly have that like it's nuts. Yeah, and then multiple

687
00:32:35,360 --> 00:32:38,680
Speaker 3: billionaires and others where look, it's they always are able

688
00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:41,040
Speaker 3: to be like, oh, it was unfair to me. The

689
00:32:41,080 --> 00:32:43,760
Speaker 3: Milk and One remains the craziest. One of my favorite

690
00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:48,600
Speaker 3: books was specifically about Michael Milkin, and it's by James Stewart,

691
00:32:48,760 --> 00:32:52,680
Speaker 3: specifically about the whole like insider trading arbitrage scandal back

692
00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:55,360
Speaker 3: in the nineteen eighties, and Rudy Giuliani was one of

693
00:32:55,360 --> 00:32:58,400
Speaker 3: the people who helped prosecute them, and then he later

694
00:32:58,440 --> 00:33:00,920
Speaker 3: becomes a lobbyist and he's like, actually, you should pardon.

695
00:33:00,800 --> 00:33:01,400
Speaker 1: My keeah broken.

696
00:33:01,480 --> 00:33:03,080
Speaker 3: That's I mean, that's what they got away with. And

697
00:33:03,120 --> 00:33:04,240
Speaker 3: this is the first Trump administration.

698
00:33:04,280 --> 00:33:04,920
Speaker 4: It totally.

699
00:33:07,680 --> 00:33:10,880
Speaker 2: Let's talk about Pete Hegseeth now briefly because the show's

700
00:33:10,880 --> 00:33:12,880
Speaker 2: going going long, but I do want to touch on

701
00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:16,360
Speaker 2: them because it actually relates directly to this. It appears

702
00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:21,560
Speaker 2: that Trump and Hegsath are effectively throwing this admiral Yes,

703
00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:26,040
Speaker 2: who was involved in the first boat bombing that you know,

704
00:33:26,080 --> 00:33:27,920
Speaker 2: it was revealed to have been this double tap strike

705
00:33:28,360 --> 00:33:31,960
Speaker 2: strike which we talked about yesterday. Two survivors remained, and

706
00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:34,640
Speaker 2: then they you know, they do another drone strike to

707
00:33:35,080 --> 00:33:37,760
Speaker 2: murder those other two survivors. Now I think the whole

708
00:33:37,760 --> 00:33:39,640
Speaker 2: thing is only I think the first strike was illegal.

709
00:33:39,800 --> 00:33:42,080
Speaker 2: I think the second strike was even more clearly illegal.

710
00:33:42,120 --> 00:33:43,640
Speaker 2: Like I think it was all murder. I do not

711
00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:45,560
Speaker 2: think we are at war with drug traffickers. I don't

712
00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:48,560
Speaker 2: think they have the authority to do this. But if

713
00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:51,200
Speaker 2: you accept their logic, which again you shouldn't, but if

714
00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:54,480
Speaker 2: you accept their logic, then that second one is almost clear.

715
00:33:54,560 --> 00:33:57,160
Speaker 2: It's like a textbook definition of a war crime. Literally,

716
00:33:57,200 --> 00:34:01,120
Speaker 2: in the UCMJ manual where they talk about when it

717
00:34:01,160 --> 00:34:05,520
Speaker 2: would be appropriate to disobey orders, the example they use

718
00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:08,880
Speaker 2: is two survivors clinging to a shipwreck. That is the

719
00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:11,879
Speaker 2: text literally, the textbook example that is used of this

720
00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:13,719
Speaker 2: is the time when you should disobey the orders because

721
00:34:13,719 --> 00:34:16,440
Speaker 2: they are so clearly unlawful. So that's why this is

722
00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:20,640
Speaker 2: getting so much attention. And Pete, we covered yesterday, did

723
00:34:20,640 --> 00:34:23,080
Speaker 2: not really deny the reporting. Of course objected the idea

724
00:34:23,120 --> 00:34:25,759
Speaker 2: that it was illegal, did not deny the reporting. And

725
00:34:25,840 --> 00:34:31,000
Speaker 2: then yesterday he and Caroline Levitt, you know, from the podium,

726
00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:36,239
Speaker 2: really seeks to position the decision making as having not

727
00:34:36,320 --> 00:34:39,560
Speaker 2: been really with Pete heagset but with this admiral who

728
00:34:39,719 --> 00:34:42,040
Speaker 2: was involved. And I'll get in a moment to why

729
00:34:42,080 --> 00:34:44,440
Speaker 2: this is relevant to the pardon conversation, although you guys

730
00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:46,600
Speaker 2: can probably put the pieces together here, but let's go

731
00:34:46,600 --> 00:34:49,200
Speaker 2: ahead and take a listen to F three. This is

732
00:34:49,239 --> 00:34:52,400
Speaker 2: Caroline Levitt being asked about this double type tap strike.

733
00:34:52,680 --> 00:34:55,760
Speaker 1: Does the administration deny that that second strike happened?

734
00:34:55,920 --> 00:34:59,240
Speaker 6: Or did it happen and the administration denies a sectuary

735
00:34:59,280 --> 00:35:02,719
Speaker 6: headset ta the latter is true, yamee, and I have

736
00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:05,680
Speaker 6: a statement to read for you here. President Trump and

737
00:35:05,719 --> 00:35:10,400
Speaker 6: Secretary Hegseth have made it clear that presidentially designated narco

738
00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:14,480
Speaker 6: terrorist groups are subject to lethal targeting in accordance with

739
00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:17,760
Speaker 6: the laws of war. With respect to the strikes in question.

740
00:35:17,920 --> 00:35:22,680
Speaker 6: On September second, Secretary Hegseth authorized Admiral Bradley to conduct

741
00:35:22,719 --> 00:35:26,600
Speaker 6: these kinetic strikes. Admiral Bradley worked well within his authority

742
00:35:26,719 --> 00:35:29,839
Speaker 6: and the law, directing the engagement to ensure the boat

743
00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:32,719
Speaker 6: was destroyed and the threat to the United States of

744
00:35:32,760 --> 00:35:34,200
Speaker 6: America was eliminated.

745
00:35:34,719 --> 00:35:39,040
Speaker 2: So Admiral Bradley, so Pete directed Admiral BLA Bradley and

746
00:35:39,040 --> 00:35:41,239
Speaker 2: then oh, Pete definitely was within the laws of war,

747
00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:43,799
Speaker 2: but they're really shifting the decision making from you know,

748
00:35:43,840 --> 00:35:48,000
Speaker 2: the original report was that Pete had said kill everybody,

749
00:35:48,400 --> 00:35:51,560
Speaker 2: and then that was the order that led to this

750
00:35:51,719 --> 00:35:54,600
Speaker 2: double tap strike. I also want to point out soccer

751
00:35:54,600 --> 00:35:57,719
Speaker 2: people are surfacing you at the time, because I don't

752
00:35:57,760 --> 00:36:00,560
Speaker 2: know if you guys remember they shared the first bombing

753
00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:02,680
Speaker 2: of the boat, not the second part, but the first

754
00:36:02,719 --> 00:36:06,120
Speaker 2: part they shared on Twitter and was bragging about. And

755
00:36:06,160 --> 00:36:08,839
Speaker 2: Pete was doing a whole like victory lap around this,

756
00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:13,080
Speaker 2: and he talked about how he watched it live and

757
00:36:13,120 --> 00:36:17,279
Speaker 2: how deeply involved he was in this whole process. Now

758
00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:20,200
Speaker 2: he's trying to position himself like, oh, Admiral Bradley was

759
00:36:20,239 --> 00:36:23,040
Speaker 2: totally within his rights, but it was totally his decision,

760
00:36:23,120 --> 00:36:23,600
Speaker 2: not mine.

761
00:36:23,680 --> 00:36:26,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, can we go. Let's skip ahead to F seven

762
00:36:26,360 --> 00:36:29,719
Speaker 3: just to show this. So Pete says, let's make one

763
00:36:29,880 --> 00:36:33,640
Speaker 3: thing crystal clear. Admiral Bradley is an American hero, a

764
00:36:33,680 --> 00:36:36,080
Speaker 3: true professional, and has one hundred percent support. I stand

765
00:36:36,080 --> 00:36:39,120
Speaker 3: by him in the combat decisions he has made on

766
00:36:39,200 --> 00:36:42,080
Speaker 3: the September second mission and all others since America is

767
00:36:42,120 --> 00:36:43,879
Speaker 3: for if you are a men and women who.

768
00:36:43,800 --> 00:36:45,280
Speaker 1: Are serving in the armed forces.

769
00:36:45,320 --> 00:36:48,200
Speaker 3: How can you possibly think that these people are going

770
00:36:48,280 --> 00:36:50,600
Speaker 3: to have your back when they're the ones who are

771
00:36:50,640 --> 00:36:53,839
Speaker 3: putting you potentially in legal jeopardy and then hang your

772
00:36:53,840 --> 00:36:57,239
Speaker 3: ass out to dry whenever anything gets even remotely hot.

773
00:36:57,280 --> 00:36:59,880
Speaker 3: At least have the courage to stand up and own

774
00:37:00,239 --> 00:37:02,520
Speaker 3: the overall attack. Now let's go to the New York

775
00:37:02,520 --> 00:37:06,319
Speaker 3: Times story f five. This everything is murky. Stick with

776
00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:09,240
Speaker 3: us because we will eventually get to this. Hag Seth

777
00:37:09,480 --> 00:37:13,759
Speaker 3: ordered a lethal attack, but not the killing of survivors.

778
00:37:13,880 --> 00:37:15,920
Speaker 1: Officials say so. They interviewed five people.

779
00:37:16,280 --> 00:37:19,480
Speaker 3: I'm assuming basically everybody goes on the record here or

780
00:37:19,840 --> 00:37:22,839
Speaker 3: on background here for who is actually involved. What they

781
00:37:22,920 --> 00:37:26,440
Speaker 3: said is that heg Seth told them go and kill

782
00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:28,080
Speaker 3: people on the boat.

783
00:37:28,239 --> 00:37:32,600
Speaker 1: They do the initial strike. According to them, he didn't.

784
00:37:32,239 --> 00:37:36,680
Speaker 3: Say, after the survivors existed, go and kill them, Bradley

785
00:37:36,880 --> 00:37:42,480
Speaker 3: ordered a secondary strike. To quote fulfill Bradley ordered a

786
00:37:42,520 --> 00:37:47,399
Speaker 3: secondary strike. This is where everything becomes complicated. What they

787
00:37:47,480 --> 00:37:50,600
Speaker 3: say is that quote before the attack, he had briefed

788
00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:53,560
Speaker 3: them on his execute order to engage the boat with

789
00:37:53,640 --> 00:37:57,239
Speaker 3: a lethal force. But they did not address what should

790
00:37:57,320 --> 00:38:01,719
Speaker 3: happen if people survived. What then happened is that Admiral

791
00:38:01,760 --> 00:38:06,520
Speaker 3: Bradley had an intended second strike, and the intention of

792
00:38:06,560 --> 00:38:10,120
Speaker 3: that strike is kind of unclear, as in, was he

793
00:38:10,239 --> 00:38:13,759
Speaker 3: going in to try and to kill the survivors, was

794
00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:17,680
Speaker 3: he apparently going in to try and destroy the rest

795
00:38:17,760 --> 00:38:19,880
Speaker 3: of the so called drug cargo or by the way,

796
00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:21,840
Speaker 3: no evidence of that, but at the very length of

797
00:38:21,880 --> 00:38:24,880
Speaker 3: this second drug cargo, of the rest of the boat.

798
00:38:25,160 --> 00:38:29,080
Speaker 3: So what they say is that in real armed naval conflict,

799
00:38:29,360 --> 00:38:33,040
Speaker 3: it is lawful to fire on a partly disabled enemy

800
00:38:33,080 --> 00:38:36,200
Speaker 3: warship that is continuing to maneuver or fire its guns,

801
00:38:36,480 --> 00:38:39,000
Speaker 3: even if there's a wounded sailor a board or shipwrecksler cleaning.

802
00:38:39,160 --> 00:38:41,080
Speaker 3: But if the warship signals it's out of the fight

803
00:38:41,360 --> 00:38:44,000
Speaker 3: by ceasing firing and lowering its colors, then it becomes

804
00:38:44,160 --> 00:38:46,320
Speaker 3: this is a problem though these are drug boats. Well, okay,

805
00:38:46,640 --> 00:38:48,960
Speaker 3: there's the boats that they say are drug boats, and

806
00:38:49,040 --> 00:38:50,879
Speaker 3: the two people on that they don't have color. It's

807
00:38:50,920 --> 00:38:52,960
Speaker 3: not the United you know, it's not the British Navy

808
00:38:53,040 --> 00:38:54,680
Speaker 3: versus the Nazi.

809
00:38:55,080 --> 00:38:58,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's no anyone, there's nobody. Well, yeah, exactly I mean,

810
00:38:58,360 --> 00:38:59,520
Speaker 1: there's no evidence they're firing on them.

811
00:39:00,760 --> 00:39:02,359
Speaker 3: They're saying that the drugs on board are the ones

812
00:39:02,360 --> 00:39:04,040
Speaker 3: that are an imminent threat to America, that they're an

813
00:39:04,080 --> 00:39:04,600
Speaker 3: ARCO terrorist.

814
00:39:04,640 --> 00:39:06,680
Speaker 1: So it's like, what the hell is going on here?

815
00:39:06,680 --> 00:39:09,080
Speaker 3: And this is part of what Look, this is gonna

816
00:39:09,080 --> 00:39:12,840
Speaker 3: get bogged down in tediousness where everyone will say, oh, technically,

817
00:39:12,880 --> 00:39:16,279
Speaker 3: the point is that the strikes are bullshit, all right,

818
00:39:16,320 --> 00:39:19,560
Speaker 3: They're just bold, Like that's why even getting into all

819
00:39:19,560 --> 00:39:22,480
Speaker 3: of this, like well, the second strike, No, they have

820
00:39:22,560 --> 00:39:25,120
Speaker 3: a memo which has never been released. It's a secret memo,

821
00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:27,520
Speaker 3: which is it reminds me of the secret NSA spying

822
00:39:27,719 --> 00:39:29,799
Speaker 3: from back in the two thousands, where they're like, we

823
00:39:29,840 --> 00:39:31,280
Speaker 3: have determined that the strikes are legal.

824
00:39:31,400 --> 00:39:33,279
Speaker 1: Can we see the memo? No, you can't see it.

825
00:39:33,480 --> 00:39:37,360
Speaker 3: Okay, we have determined that these are terrorist groups and

826
00:39:37,400 --> 00:39:40,759
Speaker 3: that even though Congress has never declared war, that we

827
00:39:40,840 --> 00:39:44,000
Speaker 3: are in an armed conflict and thus have the authority.

828
00:39:44,080 --> 00:39:46,719
Speaker 3: This is even sketchier than the drone strike authorities during

829
00:39:46,719 --> 00:39:48,600
Speaker 3: the War on Terror. But I do also want to

830
00:39:48,640 --> 00:39:51,560
Speaker 3: say what a lot of people are ponting out is

831
00:39:51,600 --> 00:39:54,200
Speaker 3: that all of this happened during the war on terror.

832
00:39:54,280 --> 00:39:57,920
Speaker 3: And that's the problem is that this became normalized and

833
00:39:57,960 --> 00:40:01,760
Speaker 3: has now moved into the care being with the same bullshit,

834
00:40:01,840 --> 00:40:06,640
Speaker 3: sketchy legal authority that we bob Somalia, Yemen, layby, Afghanistan, Iraq.

835
00:40:06,719 --> 00:40:09,000
Speaker 3: How many times have we gone through all these strikes

836
00:40:09,120 --> 00:40:11,680
Speaker 3: you see people on target. People were like, oh, we

837
00:40:11,840 --> 00:40:13,799
Speaker 3: used to do this all the time in Afghanistan. I'm like, yeah,

838
00:40:13,880 --> 00:40:15,760
Speaker 3: that's not a defense though, right ex exactly.

839
00:40:15,960 --> 00:40:17,120
Speaker 1: That's the issue, isn't it.

840
00:40:17,560 --> 00:40:20,000
Speaker 2: Well, And I think to me you're right about the

841
00:40:20,239 --> 00:40:23,799
Speaker 2: like getting into the weeds in this misses the point

842
00:40:23,880 --> 00:40:25,560
Speaker 2: in a couple of ways. Number One, the whole shit

843
00:40:25,640 --> 00:40:27,759
Speaker 2: is illegal, it's all. The first strike was illegal, the

844
00:40:27,760 --> 00:40:31,319
Speaker 2: second strike is illegal. The whole operation is illegal. It's unconscionable.

845
00:40:31,400 --> 00:40:31,879
Speaker 1: These are all.

846
00:40:32,280 --> 00:40:34,759
Speaker 2: This is not even war crimes. This is murder, right, Okay,

847
00:40:34,920 --> 00:40:38,120
Speaker 2: that's in one way that the details miss the point.

848
00:40:38,520 --> 00:40:42,440
Speaker 2: But the part that matters is the fact that they

849
00:40:42,480 --> 00:40:45,560
Speaker 2: are scrambling to say, oh, Pete had nothing to do

850
00:40:45,680 --> 00:40:48,800
Speaker 2: with the second strike tells you they are actually worried

851
00:40:49,440 --> 00:40:54,240
Speaker 2: about the judgment of what this meant and the legal grounds,

852
00:40:54,320 --> 00:40:57,800
Speaker 2: the very shaky legal grounds on which it stands. So

853
00:40:58,280 --> 00:41:01,560
Speaker 2: that to me is the important of this squabbling and

854
00:41:01,680 --> 00:41:05,160
Speaker 2: trying to nitpick the exact details of who said what

855
00:41:05,400 --> 00:41:08,360
Speaker 2: and when and who is technically responsible and Pete in

856
00:41:08,400 --> 00:41:12,160
Speaker 2: the White House aggressively we stand behind Admiral Bradley and

857
00:41:12,320 --> 00:41:14,920
Speaker 2: the decisions that he definitely totally made all on his

858
00:41:15,080 --> 00:41:19,319
Speaker 2: own on that day. That blame shifting is I think

859
00:41:19,360 --> 00:41:22,440
Speaker 2: what's really notable and shows you a level of nervousness,

860
00:41:22,480 --> 00:41:25,000
Speaker 2: because what do we have now? We have a bipartisan

861
00:41:25,120 --> 00:41:29,200
Speaker 2: Senate and a bipartisan House named Brocnnor once again stepping

862
00:41:29,280 --> 00:41:32,880
Speaker 2: up involved in this bipartisan House investigation into what the

863
00:41:33,000 --> 00:41:34,160
Speaker 2: hell happened here?

864
00:41:34,520 --> 00:41:35,840
Speaker 4: So this is where you get to.

865
00:41:36,120 --> 00:41:39,800
Speaker 2: Okay, let's talk again about these pardon powers that Trump

866
00:41:39,840 --> 00:41:44,120
Speaker 2: has used so expansively. Imagine you are Admiral Bradley, and

867
00:41:44,320 --> 00:41:48,960
Speaker 2: you are not you know, a household name with you know,

868
00:41:49,120 --> 00:41:51,879
Speaker 2: all the cover of you know, all the elite cover

869
00:41:52,200 --> 00:41:54,239
Speaker 2: that comes with that, Not that admirals aren't their own

870
00:41:54,320 --> 00:41:56,919
Speaker 2: form of elites, but will put that aside for the moment. Okay,

871
00:41:56,960 --> 00:42:00,319
Speaker 2: you're being asked to testify, now what happened on that day?

872
00:42:00,920 --> 00:42:04,040
Speaker 2: Are you going to contradict the White House and their

873
00:42:04,160 --> 00:42:07,080
Speaker 2: version of events when you're worried about your own ass

874
00:42:07,320 --> 00:42:11,400
Speaker 2: and your potential legal liability. Are you going to contradict

875
00:42:11,440 --> 00:42:14,840
Speaker 2: them when you know that the key to you staying

876
00:42:15,000 --> 00:42:18,759
Speaker 2: in legal good graces is the president's powdon power, and

877
00:42:18,880 --> 00:42:20,960
Speaker 2: the last thing you want to do is piss him off,

878
00:42:21,400 --> 00:42:23,239
Speaker 2: even if it means that you have to lie and

879
00:42:23,320 --> 00:42:25,480
Speaker 2: cover up what actually happened on that day and what

880
00:42:25,600 --> 00:42:28,719
Speaker 2: you actually think about it. That is the landscape that

881
00:42:28,880 --> 00:42:31,279
Speaker 2: exists now. And so that's why you know, these pardon

882
00:42:31,320 --> 00:42:33,680
Speaker 2: powers is not just about these even though that's bad too,

883
00:42:33,800 --> 00:42:35,960
Speaker 2: these frousters who are being let off the hook. It's

884
00:42:36,080 --> 00:42:40,640
Speaker 2: also about the way it shapes behavior of people inside

885
00:42:40,680 --> 00:42:44,719
Speaker 2: this administration right now today, and the ethical and moral

886
00:42:44,880 --> 00:42:48,319
Speaker 2: landscape and the choice array that it sets up for them.

887
00:42:48,880 --> 00:42:52,560
Speaker 2: So that's why this is all very significant, the way

888
00:42:52,600 --> 00:42:55,000
Speaker 2: they're setting this up and the way that they're framing it.

889
00:42:55,360 --> 00:42:57,480
Speaker 2: And you know, I think it's it's this is one

890
00:42:57,520 --> 00:43:01,520
Speaker 2: of the first times where we've seen some Republicans get

891
00:43:01,520 --> 00:43:04,320
Speaker 2: a little bit nervous, express some concern and even in

892
00:43:04,400 --> 00:43:08,200
Speaker 2: some cases some outright disapproval about the you know, the

893
00:43:08,320 --> 00:43:11,800
Speaker 2: lawlessness with which this administration has conducted itself in these operations.

894
00:43:11,840 --> 00:43:14,799
Speaker 3: Here's the real you know why, is that they are

895
00:43:14,880 --> 00:43:17,400
Speaker 3: putting all of these people in such a shit situation.

896
00:43:17,920 --> 00:43:22,360
Speaker 3: For example, at Bradley, he's a so calm commander, career

897
00:43:22,719 --> 00:43:25,320
Speaker 3: Navy seal. He should not be worrying about whether his

898
00:43:25,520 --> 00:43:28,319
Speaker 3: ass is legally on the line or not whenever he's

899
00:43:28,360 --> 00:43:29,719
Speaker 3: in the middle of an operator. Now he's in a

900
00:43:29,800 --> 00:43:32,040
Speaker 3: shit position, right, because they're like, well, the sec deaf

901
00:43:32,120 --> 00:43:34,960
Speaker 3: said it's legal, or SEC war Sorry, I apologize, the

902
00:43:35,040 --> 00:43:37,360
Speaker 3: sect war said it was illegal, so we can go ahead.

903
00:43:37,360 --> 00:43:39,680
Speaker 3: And now all of a sudden, this guy who's a

904
00:43:39,880 --> 00:43:44,360
Speaker 3: career naval official, Navy seal is now a name who's

905
00:43:44,400 --> 00:43:46,440
Speaker 3: going to be called in subpoena before what is he

906
00:43:46,560 --> 00:43:48,839
Speaker 3: supposed to do? Right? And then what about the guys

907
00:43:48,960 --> 00:43:51,280
Speaker 3: under his command? Allegedly this is supposed to be Sealed

908
00:43:51,280 --> 00:43:54,040
Speaker 3: Team six. We have the Tier one Special operators who,

909
00:43:54,120 --> 00:43:57,200
Speaker 3: again they're used to going on these types of missions.

910
00:43:57,320 --> 00:43:58,759
Speaker 1: They probably didn't even really know.

911
00:43:59,000 --> 00:44:01,480
Speaker 3: What the legality said situation, and now all of a

912
00:44:01,520 --> 00:44:04,000
Speaker 3: sudden they are now and they're like, oh my god, like,

913
00:44:04,280 --> 00:44:06,720
Speaker 3: are we going to get called in before Congress.

914
00:44:06,760 --> 00:44:08,400
Speaker 1: They should never have to worry about that.

915
00:44:08,560 --> 00:44:11,440
Speaker 3: That's why I mean the process it will be exactly

916
00:44:11,560 --> 00:44:15,120
Speaker 3: so the process is supposed to work. Congress declares, wark

917
00:44:15,320 --> 00:44:18,800
Speaker 3: we're good, done, dusted, right, you have an authority laws

918
00:44:18,800 --> 00:44:21,280
Speaker 3: of war. That's why even you know, reading the naval

919
00:44:21,400 --> 00:44:23,840
Speaker 3: warfare thing, they're like, oh, if they lower their it

920
00:44:23,880 --> 00:44:26,160
Speaker 3: doesn't apply, right, And that's why we have all of

921
00:44:26,239 --> 00:44:28,680
Speaker 3: these you know, processes and all these other things in place.

922
00:44:28,800 --> 00:44:30,920
Speaker 3: And it was sketchy even under the two thousand and

923
00:44:30,960 --> 00:44:32,960
Speaker 3: one au m F against Terrorism.

924
00:44:33,160 --> 00:44:33,920
Speaker 1: Now we'll get to that.

925
00:44:34,160 --> 00:44:37,040
Speaker 3: Like, the fact is is like we normalize a lot

926
00:44:37,080 --> 00:44:39,680
Speaker 3: of this behavior, which set the terms for this. But

927
00:44:39,800 --> 00:44:42,600
Speaker 3: this one is even crazier because it's here it's a

928
00:44:42,680 --> 00:44:45,800
Speaker 3: domestic supposed to be a domestic law enforcement thing that

929
00:44:45,920 --> 00:44:49,520
Speaker 3: then just gets determined active conflict, which is also part

930
00:44:49,560 --> 00:44:53,640
Speaker 3: of an ideological regime change operation in Venezuela, which is

931
00:44:53,680 --> 00:44:54,520
Speaker 3: why the whole.

932
00:44:54,400 --> 00:44:57,360
Speaker 1: Thing is just the whole thing is just completely insane.

933
00:44:57,680 --> 00:45:02,560
Speaker 3: And so what they've done to these to these operators,

934
00:45:02,880 --> 00:45:07,239
Speaker 3: it's unconscionable because they've put them in a horrible situation like, yeah,

935
00:45:07,400 --> 00:45:09,600
Speaker 3: the civilian leaders are the ones who I who are

936
00:45:09,640 --> 00:45:11,840
Speaker 3: one hundred percent should own this and the fact that

937
00:45:11,840 --> 00:45:14,439
Speaker 3: they're trying to pass this off to a decorated US

938
00:45:14,560 --> 00:45:17,560
Speaker 3: Navy steel so com commander total bullshit. Yeah, bullshit.

939
00:45:17,640 --> 00:45:18,200
Speaker 1: I mean it really is.

940
00:45:18,320 --> 00:45:20,879
Speaker 2: And here's the thing is, like I keep going back

941
00:45:20,920 --> 00:45:24,040
Speaker 2: to that article about how these nonprofits that provide legal

942
00:45:24,080 --> 00:45:26,800
Speaker 2: advice to service members, how they've seen this uptick and

943
00:45:26,840 --> 00:45:29,120
Speaker 2: calls where people are calling them like, uh, what do

944
00:45:29,160 --> 00:45:29,759
Speaker 2: you think about this?

945
00:45:30,239 --> 00:45:32,360
Speaker 4: And they said that it was the higher level. Was like,

946
00:45:32,600 --> 00:45:34,000
Speaker 4: not you know, the rank and file.

947
00:45:34,040 --> 00:45:36,040
Speaker 2: It was higher level people who were in decision making

948
00:45:36,080 --> 00:45:40,200
Speaker 2: positions because they have some awareness of this way this

949
00:45:40,360 --> 00:45:42,120
Speaker 2: normally functions is not functioning.

950
00:45:42,200 --> 00:45:42,319
Speaker 5: Now.

951
00:45:42,520 --> 00:45:43,319
Speaker 4: I no longer have.

952
00:45:43,440 --> 00:45:46,440
Speaker 2: Faith that there's even you know, some jag and some

953
00:45:46,719 --> 00:45:50,880
Speaker 2: process where there's any kind of a legal justification that

954
00:45:51,040 --> 00:45:55,680
Speaker 2: at all remotely passes muster being prepared here. And so

955
00:45:55,920 --> 00:45:59,600
Speaker 2: they're having to themselves become like lawyers. And you know,

956
00:45:59,760 --> 00:46:01,920
Speaker 2: if you're in the military, you're you're going to be

957
00:46:01,960 --> 00:46:03,200
Speaker 2: schooled in the loss of war.

958
00:46:03,280 --> 00:46:04,600
Speaker 4: You know, that's part of your training.

959
00:46:04,640 --> 00:46:06,640
Speaker 2: And I assume the higher you are up the ladder,

960
00:46:06,719 --> 00:46:08,480
Speaker 2: the more integral that is to your training.

961
00:46:08,520 --> 00:46:10,160
Speaker 4: But you're still not a lawyer, and.

962
00:46:10,280 --> 00:46:14,040
Speaker 2: Now you're having to question everything that comes in and say, well,

963
00:46:14,160 --> 00:46:16,440
Speaker 2: is this, like, what am I going to say about this?

964
00:46:16,960 --> 00:46:19,239
Speaker 2: When if I get called in front of a congressional

965
00:46:19,280 --> 00:46:21,960
Speaker 2: committee and under oath have to testify, what am I

966
00:46:22,040 --> 00:46:24,360
Speaker 2: going to say about this? If the Democrats take power?

967
00:46:24,560 --> 00:46:26,600
Speaker 2: It's only my ass is charged with a war craft like,

968
00:46:26,880 --> 00:46:29,640
Speaker 2: how is this all going to go? That's where they

969
00:46:29,680 --> 00:46:32,040
Speaker 2: are right now. So you know, I think this is

970
00:46:32,239 --> 00:46:35,160
Speaker 2: probably pretty eye opening for a lot of people to

971
00:46:35,280 --> 00:46:38,560
Speaker 2: see them so brazenly pass the buck like this and

972
00:46:38,719 --> 00:46:41,040
Speaker 2: try to wash Beat's hands a responsibility. And the last

973
00:46:41,040 --> 00:46:42,920
Speaker 2: thing I'll say about this whole dynamic, and part of

974
00:46:42,960 --> 00:46:45,239
Speaker 2: why I think this is kind of breaking through is

975
00:46:45,360 --> 00:46:49,600
Speaker 2: because Pete he said, even you know, putting any sort

976
00:46:49,640 --> 00:46:56,080
Speaker 2: of ideological like valance aside, people just feel like he's chaotic,

977
00:46:56,719 --> 00:46:59,719
Speaker 2: like he's been a shitty shitty at his job. I

978
00:46:59,760 --> 00:47:02,279
Speaker 2: think that's evidenced by the fact that, you know, he's

979
00:47:02,360 --> 00:47:05,200
Speaker 2: not really integral. He's not on this inside Marco Rubio,

980
00:47:05,280 --> 00:47:09,919
Speaker 2: Steve Witcoff team that's involved in these big decisions. He's

981
00:47:09,960 --> 00:47:13,319
Speaker 2: been somewhat sidelined in that regard his leadership has zero

982
00:47:13,480 --> 00:47:15,160
Speaker 2: confidence with the Pentagon.

983
00:47:15,480 --> 00:47:17,640
Speaker 4: A lot of people just don't like this dude.

984
00:47:17,880 --> 00:47:20,359
Speaker 2: And one thing I've seen in you know, whether it's

985
00:47:20,400 --> 00:47:23,600
Speaker 2: in media or in other spaces, is when you know,

986
00:47:23,680 --> 00:47:26,080
Speaker 2: there start to be some cracks in the facade. If

987
00:47:26,120 --> 00:47:28,840
Speaker 2: people really love you, and they appreciate you or they

988
00:47:28,920 --> 00:47:31,920
Speaker 2: respect you, then they'll sort of circle the wagons. And

989
00:47:32,320 --> 00:47:35,040
Speaker 2: if they hate you and they are pissed off at

990
00:47:35,080 --> 00:47:37,200
Speaker 2: the way you've handled yourself or perhaps the way you've

991
00:47:37,280 --> 00:47:39,080
Speaker 2: knife them or knife them in the back. In some

992
00:47:39,239 --> 00:47:42,919
Speaker 2: instances that we have some awareness of, guess what, maybe

993
00:47:42,920 --> 00:47:44,600
Speaker 2: they're not going to be there to protect you, or

994
00:47:44,640 --> 00:47:46,560
Speaker 2: maybe they're going to be the ones leaking. Maybe they're

995
00:47:46,560 --> 00:47:48,480
Speaker 2: going to be the ones who are, you know, providing

996
00:47:48,520 --> 00:47:51,960
Speaker 2: information that leads to your downfall. That's where those inter

997
00:47:52,080 --> 00:47:55,560
Speaker 2: personal dynamics start to become very very important.

998
00:47:55,239 --> 00:47:58,120
Speaker 3: Right, That's what's happening with cash Betel. Like, remember, these

999
00:47:58,160 --> 00:48:00,360
Speaker 3: are Republicans in the FBI, who really yo, this.

1000
00:48:00,400 --> 00:48:01,000
Speaker 1: Guy's a clown.

1001
00:48:01,239 --> 00:48:05,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, but this dude his insecurities and his temper tantrums

1002
00:48:05,440 --> 00:48:07,040
Speaker 2: like because of his own incompetence.

1003
00:48:07,200 --> 00:48:09,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, all right, So there you go, Thank you guys.

1004
00:48:09,200 --> 00:48:11,680
Speaker 3: So much for watching, appreciate it. We'll see you all later.