WEBVTT - Why Are Some Countries Happier Than Others? 0:00:15.564 --> 0:00:28.604 Pushkin. Welcome back to Risky Business, a show about making 0:00:28.684 --> 0:00:31.164 better decisions. I'm Maria Kannakova. 0:00:30.804 --> 0:00:31.564 And I'm Nate Silver. 0:00:32.444 --> 0:00:35.804 Today on the show, we'll talk happiness. Why are people 0:00:35.884 --> 0:00:38.484 in Finland so fucking happy? 0:00:39.764 --> 0:00:42.564 It's because fucking and Cleland both start with enough. You 0:00:42.644 --> 0:00:44.404 heard it here first, folks. 0:00:44.564 --> 0:00:47.524 I am going We're gonna rely on a combination of 0:00:47.844 --> 0:00:53.204 actual survey data and mildly politically incorrect antecdata from Nate's 0:00:53.244 --> 0:00:55.964 travels around the world, but do some serious analysis of 0:00:56.124 --> 0:00:58.684 like can you really tell which countries are happier? 0:00:58.924 --> 0:01:00.804 You know, there's just that a meaningful thing, and so 0:01:01.004 --> 0:01:01.924 what tends to predict it? 0:01:04.764 --> 0:01:08.644 All right, let's let's do it. The World Happiness Report 0:01:08.764 --> 0:01:11.324 came out a few months ago. It's not, you know, 0:01:11.804 --> 0:01:18.964 not recent news, but the underlying issues are eternal, right, 0:01:19.084 --> 0:01:23.644 because happiness and what makes people happy and how how 0:01:23.684 --> 0:01:26.764 you can even have a happiness ranking? Those are things 0:01:26.804 --> 0:01:30.604 that you know, those are perennial questions in psychology from 0:01:30.644 --> 0:01:34.804 your standpoint, Nate, you know, statistics are very interesting here, 0:01:34.844 --> 0:01:38.164 like how the hell do you rank how happy people are? 0:01:38.484 --> 0:01:42.444 But anyhow so, according to this report, Finland has been 0:01:42.484 --> 0:01:44.924 the happiest country in the world for a while now, 0:01:45.484 --> 0:01:48.244 from multiple years. And I've never been to Finland, but 0:01:48.284 --> 0:01:50.084 you are something of a Finland expert. 0:01:50.164 --> 0:01:54.404 I bacently. You know. 0:01:54.484 --> 0:01:56.924 Look, my partner and I have a joke about like 0:01:57.684 --> 0:02:00.284 European American man travels to Europe and is now expert 0:02:00.324 --> 0:02:05.684 on Europe, right, and with like, yeah, I guess the 0:02:05.684 --> 0:02:07.684 European I don't think i've any Nordic ancestry. 0:02:07.764 --> 0:02:07.924 Yeah. 0:02:07.964 --> 0:02:12.124 I went to Finland and to Norway back over Labor 0:02:12.164 --> 0:02:15.044 Day and had a great time. And those are both 0:02:15.084 --> 0:02:19.404 countries that are rated near the top, particularly Finland. And 0:02:19.444 --> 0:02:21.044 I guess the question is, like, when you're on the 0:02:21.084 --> 0:02:25.484 ground in Finland, do you notice outward signs of happiness? 0:02:25.564 --> 0:02:27.604 I noticed a lot of drinking. 0:02:27.724 --> 0:02:29.564 You go to the restaurant and you're offered a drink 0:02:29.604 --> 0:02:31.724 faster than anywhere I've ever been. I don't know where 0:02:31.724 --> 0:02:34.244 that fits into this, right. And notice the sauna I went, 0:02:34.404 --> 0:02:37.924 like the nice like tourists sauna seems kind of chilly. 0:02:37.964 --> 0:02:38.564 Just chill out. 0:02:38.764 --> 0:02:42.044 You can like actually basically grab more coals, get like 0:02:42.084 --> 0:02:45.124 a little shovel and grab more coals and put them 0:02:45.124 --> 0:02:47.644 in a burner and it makes a strong higher that 0:02:47.724 --> 0:02:50.204 seems very fun, Like that's gotta be worth like alone, 0:02:50.804 --> 0:02:53.644 like point two points of the on the ten point scale. 0:02:53.804 --> 0:02:59.564 I think good design and architecture. I notice good like 0:03:00.244 --> 0:03:03.724 accommodations for children and like disabled and elderly people more 0:03:03.764 --> 0:03:07.884 than you find elsewhere in the world. The food was 0:03:07.964 --> 0:03:12.444 surprisingly good. We had excellent Georgian food. We had wow, 0:03:12.644 --> 0:03:17.124 excellent kind of Sicilian food that has like finished flourishes 0:03:17.164 --> 0:03:18.604 with the Sicilian food, and. 0:03:18.524 --> 0:03:19.684 Like, oh, that's fascinating. 0:03:19.724 --> 0:03:22.404 No, I mean, yeah, nice city, hell Sinky not actually 0:03:22.444 --> 0:03:25.164 as populous as it seems. And then Norway they just 0:03:25.204 --> 0:03:27.844 have the fucking like most beautiful landscapes. 0:03:28.524 --> 0:03:32.284 Sure, yeah, but you know, I haven't been to Norway either, 0:03:32.364 --> 0:03:34.444 but I really want to go, like the I want 0:03:34.444 --> 0:03:36.444 to go to Finland as well, So I don't want 0:03:36.484 --> 0:03:39.524 the fence to take this amiss. But the Fjords in Norway, 0:03:39.524 --> 0:03:43.044 I mean, man, their reputation just precedes them, and I 0:03:43.324 --> 0:03:44.524 would really love to see that. 0:03:44.804 --> 0:03:46.444 The first day we were there, my partner like kind 0:03:46.444 --> 0:03:50.324 of drove out to like some little little mini fjords, right, 0:03:50.404 --> 0:03:54.444 and we're like, this is like Maine, It's pretty fucking nice, right, 0:03:54.484 --> 0:03:58.164 And then we took a cruise to the real It's like, 0:03:58.204 --> 0:04:04.484 that's not nice. That's nice. 0:03:59.764 --> 0:04:02.564 It's nice. 0:04:06.324 --> 0:04:06.924 That's a lot. 0:04:08.524 --> 0:04:10.684 That's not a field. That's a fuel. By the way, 0:04:10.724 --> 0:04:13.244 do you know do you know that the Hudson River 0:04:13.324 --> 0:04:14.524 Valley is a fjord? 0:04:15.524 --> 0:04:18.124 I did not know that. Actually I think I did 0:04:18.164 --> 0:04:20.084 know that at some point in time, but I forgot 0:04:20.124 --> 0:04:22.644 from now I ree large it. Yeah, I think you've 0:04:22.644 --> 0:04:25.084 probably told me this in the past, but thank you 0:04:25.164 --> 0:04:28.004 for retelling me, because I've effectively forgotten. 0:04:28.724 --> 0:04:31.044 So as a fjord expert, I have to tell you 0:04:31.084 --> 0:04:35.444 that these fucking fiords were like, you know, Macha Peach 0:04:35.564 --> 0:04:38.284 is pretty amazing and like Hawaii, like. 0:04:38.204 --> 0:04:40.644 This is probably the top three. I guess that I've 0:04:40.684 --> 0:04:40.964 been too. 0:04:42.004 --> 0:04:45.484 That's great. Well, this is this is all good. We've 0:04:45.484 --> 0:04:48.964 got some local color. Now let's step back a little 0:04:49.004 --> 0:04:51.204 bit and talk just a little bit about how this 0:04:51.284 --> 0:04:55.324 World Happiness Report, how the ranking is created. So they 0:04:55.444 --> 0:04:59.844 actually based the ranking on one single question called the 0:04:59.964 --> 0:05:03.604 Cantrell Ladder. And this is the question. So, Nate, you 0:05:03.644 --> 0:05:06.924 have to imagine a ladder with steps numbered from zero 0:05:06.964 --> 0:05:09.684 at the bottom to ten at the top. The top 0:05:09.724 --> 0:05:12.284 of the ladder is the best possible life for you, 0:05:12.724 --> 0:05:15.604 The bottom of the ladder is the worst possible life 0:05:15.644 --> 0:05:18.684 for you. On which step of the ladder would you 0:05:18.724 --> 0:05:22.444 say you personally feel you stand at this time? So 0:05:22.484 --> 0:05:24.484 that is the one question that they use. 0:05:24.764 --> 0:05:25.764 Are you are you asking me? 0:05:26.044 --> 0:05:26.404 Yeah? 0:05:26.404 --> 0:05:27.524 Go ahead? What do you think? 0:05:28.164 --> 0:05:29.284 Nine? 0:05:29.604 --> 0:05:29.924 Nice? 0:05:30.804 --> 0:05:33.844 I'm trying to be realistic, right, like best possible versus 0:05:33.884 --> 0:05:36.324 like do I think I got a pretty good draw 0:05:36.484 --> 0:05:37.284 for a lot of things? 0:05:37.364 --> 0:05:37.844 Yeah? 0:05:37.884 --> 0:05:41.524 Sure? And so the data for this are collected actually 0:05:41.564 --> 0:05:45.764 by the Gallop World Pole And so you know, insofar 0:05:46.004 --> 0:05:49.284 as you know you have any kind of thoughts about 0:05:49.284 --> 0:05:51.844 the quality of the data, that's that's where they're coming from. 0:05:52.084 --> 0:05:53.804 So they're not doing a poll of their own. They're 0:05:53.844 --> 0:05:58.124 just taking that one question from Gallop, which has been 0:05:58.124 --> 0:06:01.364 conducted since two thousand and five, and every single year 0:06:01.644 --> 0:06:04.244 it's about a little bit over one hundred thousand people 0:06:04.364 --> 0:06:08.044 in one hundred and forty thousand countries and territories that 0:06:08.084 --> 0:06:10.804 participate in the poll, and so it's about a thousand 0:06:10.884 --> 0:06:15.404 people per country that are contacted either face to face 0:06:15.604 --> 0:06:20.964 or by phone. And what this report does is they 0:06:21.044 --> 0:06:24.364 take the rankings from the last three years for each country, 0:06:24.404 --> 0:06:27.164 and they average them so that they get a higher 0:06:28.004 --> 0:06:32.964 size of respondents. So, for instance, their two thousand and 0:06:33.004 --> 0:06:35.204 five rankings are actually two thousand and two to two 0:06:35.204 --> 0:06:39.164 thousand four, so that they get at least three thousand 0:06:39.404 --> 0:06:43.724 people per country that they include. If countries have significantly 0:06:43.764 --> 0:06:47.124 fewer than this, they exclude them from the rankings. So 0:06:47.444 --> 0:06:50.164 just first, like, in terms of statistics, how does this 0:06:50.684 --> 0:06:53.564 strike you in terms of sample size, In terms of 0:06:53.604 --> 0:06:56.364 how the Gallup pole does its sampling, Gallup tends to 0:06:56.444 --> 0:06:58.324 be one of the more reliable poles. 0:06:58.124 --> 0:07:01.964 Right, Yeah, Look, I think there can always be sampling 0:07:01.964 --> 0:07:04.524 biases and who's surveyed and who's not right. You know, 0:07:04.604 --> 0:07:07.004 in general, people who are disadvantaged in various ways are 0:07:07.004 --> 0:07:10.404 harder to reach via pole. I think the bigger question 0:07:10.484 --> 0:07:13.644 is like how universal is this? 0:07:14.444 --> 0:07:19.564 Yeah question right, Yeah, that is a huge question. And 0:07:19.604 --> 0:07:22.284 the reason they tried to do this ladder is because 0:07:22.284 --> 0:07:24.244 I think it's one of the more universal ways that 0:07:24.284 --> 0:07:27.044 you can ask it, right, that it doesn't have any 0:07:27.084 --> 0:07:30.484 sort of cultural baggage or any other things that might 0:07:31.044 --> 0:07:35.364 you know, in some countries, factor X might be something 0:07:35.404 --> 0:07:39.284 that you associate with happiness, whereas in others that might 0:07:39.564 --> 0:07:42.204 you know, that might tell you something totally different. So 0:07:42.244 --> 0:07:45.364 they've tried to get this universal question. Now, I will 0:07:45.404 --> 0:07:50.484 caveat this by saying, in psychology research, like self report 0:07:50.564 --> 0:07:55.844 it's kind of like democracy, it's the best possible system 0:07:55.884 --> 0:07:58.244 of governess out of a lot of bad ones, right 0:07:59.004 --> 0:08:01.244 in the sense that it's not perfect, and there are 0:08:01.324 --> 0:08:04.324 lots and lots of issues with self report data, but 0:08:04.564 --> 0:08:06.724 it's kind of the best we have, right in the 0:08:06.764 --> 0:08:09.004 sense of, like, well, how else are you going to 0:08:09.044 --> 0:08:12.204 ask something that's so internal. We're not asking about like 0:08:12.564 --> 0:08:16.884 something that we can measure as in like your exact income, 0:08:16.964 --> 0:08:19.044 quality of life, et cetera, et cetera. We're asking about 0:08:19.044 --> 0:08:22.524 how happy you personally are, and so the best thing 0:08:22.564 --> 0:08:24.924 we can do is just ask you directly. But we 0:08:25.044 --> 0:08:28.604 know that those sorts of data are problematic, right, that 0:08:29.004 --> 0:08:33.124 asking people is not always well, you know, it's the 0:08:33.124 --> 0:08:34.284 best we have. It's the best we have. 0:08:34.324 --> 0:08:38.324 It's probably better than experts presuming oh yeah, tell me 0:08:38.324 --> 0:08:40.604 you're happy, Maria. But there's a whole debate about like 0:08:40.644 --> 0:08:44.844 whether conservatives or liberals are more happy or basically liberal 0:08:44.924 --> 0:08:48.364 self report lower happiness. There's a debate about like how 0:08:48.484 --> 0:08:52.044 literally that should be interpreted. We can circle back to 0:08:52.084 --> 0:08:54.924 that maybe. I mean, you know, one other things it 0:08:54.924 --> 0:09:00.164 seems certainly about this latter formulation is it might encourage 0:09:00.164 --> 0:09:04.604 you to like look around at your neighborhood, at nearby 0:09:04.724 --> 0:09:08.764 examples approximate examples of people who are better off than you. 0:09:09.084 --> 0:09:14.644 Right in the United States, in the Middle East, we 0:09:14.844 --> 0:09:21.164 have very prominent examples of extreme wealth and extreme excess 0:09:21.244 --> 0:09:25.484 and or excellence and or achievement and or privilege right 0:09:26.844 --> 0:09:30.284 in everything pretty much right, the US seems to be 0:09:31.124 --> 0:09:34.524 I've actually run some numbers on this stuff, relatively like 0:09:34.684 --> 0:09:37.484 pretty happy country, right, but like we're a little lower 0:09:37.484 --> 0:09:42.004 than you'd think given how rich we are overall. So 0:09:42.404 --> 0:09:46.324 you know, what do countries like Finland have in common? 0:09:46.964 --> 0:09:52.404 Number one, they have relatively low wealth and incommun inequality 0:09:52.764 --> 0:09:56.124 relatively low. Where floor is high, the ceiling is also 0:09:57.204 --> 0:10:01.524 high ish, right, but like relatively low compared to US, China, 0:10:01.644 --> 0:10:02.324 Middle East. 0:10:02.204 --> 0:10:02.964 Latin America. 0:10:03.484 --> 0:10:05.484 And by the way, let me just caveat that with 0:10:05.604 --> 0:10:07.924 saying that a lot of the countries that are at 0:10:07.924 --> 0:10:10.244 the top of these polls tend to be smaller, and 0:10:10.324 --> 0:10:11.364 I think that goes hand in. 0:10:11.284 --> 0:10:15.364 Hand, you know, I mean, it's not true for all 0:10:15.724 --> 0:10:19.444 small countries, right, like Finland. Also like Greece. 0:10:19.484 --> 0:10:21.644 We had a very nice time in Athens a few 0:10:21.684 --> 0:10:23.564 years ago, and we thought we're going to go around 0:10:23.524 --> 0:10:25.124 Athle's going to be born. We just loved Athens so 0:10:25.164 --> 0:10:28.404 much we just stayed there. Right, But Greece has been 0:10:28.444 --> 0:10:31.244 through a lot in terms of economic distress and bailouts. 0:10:31.244 --> 0:10:35.004 Greece has a lot of history, a lot of baggage 0:10:35.564 --> 0:10:37.764 with that history. One of my good friends is Greek 0:10:37.804 --> 0:10:41.244 American and it's a little bit of an angstier kind 0:10:41.244 --> 0:10:42.364 of culture. 0:10:42.404 --> 0:10:43.924 I think I get a lot you know Reeks. 0:10:43.684 --> 0:10:47.524 In the Russians and the Jews that kind of very happy. 0:10:47.644 --> 0:10:50.884 They kind of have some similar stories, right. 0:10:51.084 --> 0:10:51.684 You know Italy. 0:10:51.764 --> 0:10:53.724 I went to Italy on a Booktoria, and like you know, 0:10:53.724 --> 0:10:55.644 the guy who transit book, he's like, yeah, all Italians 0:10:55.644 --> 0:10:57.924 were still living in the shadow of like our our 0:10:57.964 --> 0:10:59.924 history in Italy is a country it's like not super happy. 0:10:59.964 --> 0:11:03.004 So like a country that's like content with its place 0:11:03.724 --> 0:11:07.284 in the world and or which teaches contentment, it seems 0:11:07.324 --> 0:11:10.444 like it's going to excel on this survey, which is 0:11:10.484 --> 0:11:12.644 not to say it's not a valid measure, but like 0:11:12.644 --> 0:11:14.764 that context I think is important, and the small thing 0:11:14.804 --> 0:11:16.644 is important to almost all the countries that rank highly 0:11:16.684 --> 0:11:21.164 are are small. They are not necessarily someone. Thing I 0:11:21.204 --> 0:11:25.604 looked at is is there a correlation because we can 0:11:25.644 --> 0:11:28.364 be on PC on the show Maria, Sure, is there 0:11:28.524 --> 0:11:32.124 a correlation and either direction between the number of foreign 0:11:32.204 --> 0:11:34.844 born residents and happiness controlling for their factors. 0:11:35.364 --> 0:11:38.644 That's a super important question, Like let's it doesn't matter 0:11:38.684 --> 0:11:42.524 whether we're PC or not. Like this is actually yeah important, is. 0:11:42.884 --> 0:11:48.564 No, Actually, if anything, there's a positive correlation because countries 0:11:48.604 --> 0:11:51.604 that are more successful tend to attract more immigrants if 0:11:51.604 --> 0:11:52.804 they should let them in. 0:11:53.164 --> 0:11:55.364 Right now, what do. 0:11:55.364 --> 0:11:56.804 You think some people would say is that in these 0:11:56.804 --> 0:12:02.884 smaller countries that you're able to incorporate the other cultures 0:12:03.724 --> 0:12:05.044 more organically, right. 0:12:04.924 --> 0:12:05.804 I don't if if that's true. 0:12:05.964 --> 0:12:09.324 I mean, if you go to Finland, there is a 0:12:10.364 --> 0:12:15.564 you know, there are tons of ethnic quote unquote restaurants everywhere, 0:12:15.604 --> 0:12:17.324 and I'm sure that you know, the spice level is 0:12:17.324 --> 0:12:20.044 probably a little bit done down, but like but you know, 0:12:20.084 --> 0:12:25.564 but like it's a it's a pretty multicultural place. I think, 0:12:25.644 --> 0:12:27.924 you know, Norway, The impression I get is that Nori's 0:12:27.924 --> 0:12:31.084 little stricter about certain types of things, right, so it 0:12:31.164 --> 0:12:34.004 might very more from place to place, or you know, if. 0:12:33.924 --> 0:12:34.644 You're too strict. 0:12:35.044 --> 0:12:39.644 I mean, Italy and Japan are places where israelis have been, right, 0:12:39.804 --> 0:12:42.244 where it's thought to be a little bit harder to 0:12:42.484 --> 0:12:46.644 integrate potentially, right, you know, whereas South Korea is a 0:12:46.644 --> 0:12:48.324 little more open minded. But like, so there's lots of 0:12:48.364 --> 0:12:50.604 different factors happening here. I think also, you know, so 0:12:50.604 --> 0:12:54.804 South Korea is a country that like is both according 0:12:54.804 --> 0:12:57.884 to the survey and according to some measures, like mental 0:12:57.924 --> 0:13:00.364 health measures. You know, I could argue that fertility rate 0:13:01.044 --> 0:13:03.764 might be an indicator of something, right, Like South Korea 0:13:04.004 --> 0:13:10.044 is kind of unhappy, but like it grew prodigiously from 0:13:10.124 --> 0:13:13.164 like being in the lower end of developing countries right 0:13:13.644 --> 0:13:17.324 forty years ago to higher per GDP per capitive in 0:13:18.764 --> 0:13:20.604 Japan and all but a handful of countries in the 0:13:20.644 --> 0:13:23.724 world now, right, And like, you know, I wonder if 0:13:23.724 --> 0:13:28.124 that growing up too fast show leads to some angst, 0:13:28.204 --> 0:13:29.004 the sense of like. 0:13:29.364 --> 0:13:34.724 Yeah, some dislocation, yeah yeah. So when I think these 0:13:34.724 --> 0:13:39.004 are all really really important considerations, and the World Happiness 0:13:39.004 --> 0:13:42.924 Report team did try to kind of do some economic 0:13:43.004 --> 0:13:46.324 modeling to look at the variation as well, and they 0:13:46.404 --> 0:13:50.964 found that there are six variables that from two thousand 0:13:51.004 --> 0:13:54.804 and five onwards account for about three quarters of the 0:13:54.884 --> 0:13:59.204 variation and happiness. And those variables are having somebody to 0:13:59.284 --> 0:14:02.604 count on, so kind of social support, which makes sense, right, 0:14:02.644 --> 0:14:05.484 and that dovetails with a lot of research on happiness. 0:14:05.484 --> 0:14:08.084 We can talk more about that community support, et cetera. 0:14:08.724 --> 0:14:11.844 Log GDP per capita, Nate, You'll have to break that 0:14:11.924 --> 0:14:14.804 down a little bit for people, because log GDP per 0:14:14.884 --> 0:14:17.284 capita is not like something that rolls off the tongue. 0:14:18.004 --> 0:14:24.364 Healthy life expectancy obviously important, freedom to make life choices, generosity, 0:14:24.484 --> 0:14:27.844 and freedom from corruption. So those are the six factors 0:14:27.884 --> 0:14:32.924 that they found correlate most highly with that overall ranking. 0:14:33.164 --> 0:14:35.964 So log GDP per capita, can you just unpack that 0:14:36.004 --> 0:14:37.924 for a second and then we'll talk about everything else. 0:14:38.684 --> 0:14:41.644 Uh, that just means that you're taking the natural logarithm, 0:14:41.724 --> 0:14:43.644 So it depends on which base you're using. But like 0:14:44.044 --> 0:14:46.484 you know, if you have, like what's the per capita 0:14:46.524 --> 0:14:52.244 income of Mexico is twenty thousand, night that might be wrong, 0:14:52.444 --> 0:14:54.964 eighteen thousand. I have no idea, right, whereas in like Norway, 0:14:55.004 --> 0:14:59.164 it's like one hundred thousand. Right, the day to day 0:14:59.244 --> 0:15:05.044 life is not five times better in Norway than in Mexico. Right, 0:15:05.124 --> 0:15:09.284 kind of practical realized wealth, even if you use kind 0:15:09.284 --> 0:15:11.924 of purchasing powered, parody adjusted. 0:15:11.564 --> 0:15:13.444 Versions of it. Right, So long as you just saying there's 0:15:13.444 --> 0:15:14.764 diminishing returns to. 0:15:14.804 --> 0:15:20.324 Wealth, great and fourteen thousand Mexico is thirteen thousand, okay, yeah, 0:15:20.324 --> 0:15:23.484 but like four thousand dollars like sid really work huntry 0:15:23.484 --> 0:15:28.204 in Africa versus fourteen thousand is a bigger difference than 0:15:28.324 --> 0:15:31.084 four two hundred thousand are similar at least, right. 0:15:31.004 --> 0:15:32.724 And like a large scale will at least at least 0:15:32.724 --> 0:15:33.804 compress that a little bit. 0:15:34.444 --> 0:15:37.524 Yeah, So that actually makes a lot of sense because 0:15:38.004 --> 0:15:41.244 what we know about happiness from kind of the happiness 0:15:41.244 --> 0:15:45.644 research outside of this particular measure or anything like that, 0:15:46.124 --> 0:15:52.324 is that the old takeaway that, oh, you know, you 0:15:52.364 --> 0:15:57.084 can't buy happiness as bullshit, that's not true. Money does matter, 0:15:57.844 --> 0:16:00.804 and you do have to have a certain amount of money, 0:16:01.084 --> 0:16:04.564 and with more money you do get happier, but there 0:16:04.564 --> 0:16:07.364 are diminishing returns, right, So that's true up to a 0:16:07.364 --> 0:16:09.964 certain point. And that it kind of flattens out, so 0:16:10.044 --> 0:16:14.604 there it's much more nuanced. But yes, after a certain rate, 0:16:14.684 --> 0:16:17.564 like those returns are so high at the beginning, and 0:16:17.604 --> 0:16:19.964 then once you're kind of comfortable and are able to 0:16:20.164 --> 0:16:24.004 like have some sort of certainty, right, some sort of stability, 0:16:24.324 --> 0:16:28.164 after that, the returns are still there, right, but they 0:16:28.204 --> 0:16:31.684 are lower than they were at the beginning when you 0:16:31.724 --> 0:16:33.484 had to do that. You know, as you say, like 0:16:33.524 --> 0:16:36.324 from four thousand to fourteen thousand, like that is huge, 0:16:36.924 --> 0:16:39.524 like that and kind of standard of living. 0:16:39.484 --> 0:16:41.844 You've seen a lot of, I mean, you can argue 0:16:41.884 --> 0:16:44.924 that like Western Europe is taking a little bit of 0:16:44.924 --> 0:16:48.524 it off ramp from further growth in GDP. 0:16:48.764 --> 0:16:51.724 Right, if you have, like if every. 0:16:51.644 --> 0:16:57.284 Person has access to their own home, access to healthcare, 0:16:57.324 --> 0:17:02.124 access to purchase meals and necessities at least, and then 0:17:02.124 --> 0:17:05.444 to have some small little luxuries and to have like 0:17:06.124 --> 0:17:11.084 a workday that doesn't work require them to work in 0:17:11.124 --> 0:17:15.204 adverse conditions or excessive numbers of hours, right, like you know, 0:17:15.644 --> 0:17:17.924 and some family or friends support networks. 0:17:18.004 --> 0:17:21.284 Right though that's done easy list of things. It's a 0:17:21.364 --> 0:17:22.844 small list of whatsoever. 0:17:22.924 --> 0:17:26.644 Right, But like you know, maybe when you get to that, 0:17:26.924 --> 0:17:31.724 then people have rationally less incentive for further gains, and 0:17:31.764 --> 0:17:34.084 to the extent you do have gains, it might be 0:17:34.204 --> 0:17:39.484 from the financialization of different sectors, and or it might 0:17:39.524 --> 0:17:41.964 be from people who do what really want to take risks, right, 0:17:41.964 --> 0:17:45.164 people who are playing the game and like that. You know, America, China, 0:17:45.204 --> 0:17:48.084 Middle East, these more dynamic quote unquote places have more 0:17:48.124 --> 0:17:51.444 of that than than Europe, where you talk to Europeans like, 0:17:51.484 --> 0:17:53.644 what are the front of your AI labs in Europe? Like, oh, 0:17:53.644 --> 0:17:56.764 I don't have any, you know, I mean literally, So 0:17:56.804 --> 0:17:57.764 that's that's interesting. 0:17:57.924 --> 0:18:02.684 I suppose that's really interesting. And most of the top 0:18:02.764 --> 0:18:07.604 rated countries are in Europe, right for in terms of happiness, 0:18:08.284 --> 0:18:09.164 which is yeah. 0:18:09.004 --> 0:18:11.244 They're most of them almost all. I think Canada is 0:18:11.244 --> 0:18:14.204 pretty well, right yeah, I mean there are culture you know, 0:18:14.324 --> 0:18:15.724 in general relative to. 0:18:17.324 --> 0:18:21.564 Relative to GDP, the Americas are like, you know, Latin 0:18:21.644 --> 0:18:27.444 America is a happier region than Asia controlling for GDP and. 0:18:27.364 --> 0:18:31.164 These other fastors. Right, yes, why is it true? I 0:18:31.204 --> 0:18:31.484 don't know. 0:18:31.524 --> 0:18:33.244 It's easy to kind of backfit. You know, you go 0:18:33.284 --> 0:18:34.324 to Mexico or Peru and. 0:18:34.324 --> 0:18:36.204 You're like, oh, people just kind of the culture is 0:18:36.244 --> 0:18:37.804 sunnier and people see, yeah, you. 0:18:37.844 --> 0:18:41.204 Know, for sure, but there are I mean something that 0:18:41.284 --> 0:18:46.244 this kind of type of ranking doesn't measure that I think, 0:18:46.564 --> 0:18:50.524 you know, might partially explain what we're seeing with South 0:18:50.524 --> 0:18:54.644 America versus Asia, is that there are cultural differences in 0:18:54.724 --> 0:19:00.524 how people just kind of their baseline how they experience life. Right, 0:19:00.564 --> 0:19:03.044 it's the way that they kind of grew up, the 0:19:03.164 --> 0:19:05.564 language that they grew up using, kind of the things 0:19:05.564 --> 0:19:09.124 that have been socialized from early childhood in terms of 0:19:09.684 --> 0:19:13.044 like what's your attitude? Right, are you an optimist? Are 0:19:13.084 --> 0:19:15.444 you a pessimist? Like this sounds kind of crazy, but 0:19:15.484 --> 0:19:17.724 there are some cultures that are actually like just inherently 0:19:17.764 --> 0:19:20.604 more optimistic cultures. There are some cultures that are just 0:19:20.724 --> 0:19:25.364 inherently more pessimistic cultures. And that kind of stuff matters, right, 0:19:25.404 --> 0:19:28.844 because those kinds of mindsets, those kinds of psychological shifts, 0:19:29.044 --> 0:19:31.644 can actually affect how you feel on a day to 0:19:31.724 --> 0:19:35.444 day basis. And so there are these just like baseline 0:19:35.484 --> 0:19:41.364 factors that exist that you've just learned from, you know, 0:19:41.604 --> 0:19:43.924 from day one, right, that's just the way that you 0:19:43.964 --> 0:19:46.804 were raised. And none of these surveys capture that. 0:19:47.884 --> 0:19:50.404 Stoicism is kind of another after view this is a 0:19:50.404 --> 0:19:54.444 big difference between men and women and conservatives and liberals. 0:19:54.524 --> 0:19:54.724 Right. 0:19:54.804 --> 0:19:57.164 So now working the story in right, if you look 0:19:57.204 --> 0:20:04.604 at data and if you ask people are you mentally healthy? Right, 0:20:05.604 --> 0:20:09.244 conservatives and men are considered the more likely to say yes, 0:20:09.564 --> 0:20:13.964 Liberals and women Right, If you ask people did you 0:20:14.004 --> 0:20:19.364 have a good day to day, the difference kind of evaporates. 0:20:19.884 --> 0:20:23.084 So the Libs will say, well, that proves that there's 0:20:23.124 --> 0:20:26.124 a stigma over mental health. And I might say there's 0:20:26.164 --> 0:20:30.204 a liberal bit of men. Right, I might say, look, no, actually, 0:20:30.524 --> 0:20:33.044 men are more stoic and they're able to say it's 0:20:33.044 --> 0:20:36.884 okay sometimes to not have every day be the most exciting, 0:20:37.004 --> 0:20:39.484 or I not have everything go your way. Right. We 0:20:39.564 --> 0:20:41.684 don't have to be as expressive about it. And actually 0:20:41.684 --> 0:20:45.044 that's a sign of better mental health. 0:20:45.124 --> 0:20:45.204 Right. 0:20:45.244 --> 0:20:47.524 You don't have to you know, turn us all into 0:20:47.564 --> 0:20:49.404 therapy patients or whatever else. 0:20:49.524 --> 0:20:49.684 Right. 0:20:49.804 --> 0:20:52.644 And if I were to stereotype. 0:20:51.964 --> 0:20:56.444 I would say that Mexico is a more expressive culture 0:20:56.484 --> 0:20:58.044 than Japan or Korea. 0:20:58.164 --> 0:20:58.364 Right. 0:20:58.844 --> 0:21:00.724 If the woke police want to beat me down for that, 0:21:00.764 --> 0:21:03.644 I mean, I think I think most people would agree 0:21:03.644 --> 0:21:07.404 with that, probably, right, And so that can get you know, 0:21:07.604 --> 0:21:09.084 whenever a human is acting of the human on a 0:21:09.124 --> 0:21:13.364 survey are connecting survey, you know that that becomes a 0:21:13.404 --> 0:21:15.484 little bit loaded, potentially. 0:21:15.604 --> 0:21:18.684 Absolutely, And like we said at the beginning, you know, 0:21:18.724 --> 0:21:22.204 they really have tried with this ladder kind of question 0:21:22.724 --> 0:21:26.364 to cut through a lot of the cultural noise, but 0:21:26.444 --> 0:21:31.004 it doesn't in the sense that those mental frameworks that 0:21:31.124 --> 0:21:34.524 kind of those things that are acceptable not acceptable. Just 0:21:34.564 --> 0:21:37.284 the way that you perceive life in general is going 0:21:37.364 --> 0:21:42.524 to be influenced by by those things, and your answer 0:21:42.564 --> 0:21:45.604 to that ladder is going to differ based on those 0:21:45.884 --> 0:21:50.004 early life slash social kind of pressures no matter what. 0:21:50.564 --> 0:21:53.324 And I also want to add a factor that so 0:21:53.764 --> 0:21:57.324 talking about you know, unpc things to say, like another 0:21:57.484 --> 0:22:03.684 big thing in happiness, like genetics is actually a factor here, 0:22:03.764 --> 0:22:07.324 like some levels of life satisfaction and kind of how 0:22:07.364 --> 0:22:11.004