1 00:00:03,080 --> 00:00:09,520 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. It's been more than 2 00:00:09,600 --> 00:00:13,560 Speaker 1: three years since China Evergrand Group collapsed and sent a 3 00:00:13,600 --> 00:00:17,920 Speaker 1: shockwave through the country's property market. EVERGN shares down about 4 00:00:17,960 --> 00:00:20,959 Speaker 1: thirty percent this week alone. That's, of course, the stock 5 00:00:21,040 --> 00:00:23,759 Speaker 1: that's lost more than ninety percent of its value since 6 00:00:23,840 --> 00:00:24,200 Speaker 1: the peak. 7 00:00:24,440 --> 00:00:28,240 Speaker 2: The authorities are trying to ring fence this situation at Evergram. 8 00:00:28,320 --> 00:00:31,000 Speaker 1: We know it is the most indebted developer in the world. 9 00:00:31,280 --> 00:00:34,520 Speaker 1: You know, there's concern that you miss these payments, there 10 00:00:34,600 --> 00:00:38,760 Speaker 1: could be cross default. The stunning fall of one of 11 00:00:38,800 --> 00:00:42,559 Speaker 1: the country's largest builders marked the beginning of a property 12 00:00:42,640 --> 00:00:46,559 Speaker 1: slump that continues to drag down the Chinese economy. Today, 13 00:00:46,880 --> 00:00:50,879 Speaker 1: Chinese property crisis will probably not be resolved anytime soon. 14 00:00:50,960 --> 00:00:54,640 Speaker 2: Real estate has gone down, stocks have gone down, salaries 15 00:00:54,680 --> 00:00:55,440 Speaker 2: have gone down. 16 00:00:57,000 --> 00:00:59,840 Speaker 1: China's real estate market was once valued at more than 17 00:01:00,080 --> 00:01:03,480 Speaker 1: fifty trillion dollars and made up a full quarter of 18 00:01:03,520 --> 00:01:07,600 Speaker 1: the economy, But now, more than three years later, the 19 00:01:07,640 --> 00:01:11,400 Speaker 1: housing crisis doesn't seem to be getting any better. All 20 00:01:11,440 --> 00:01:15,600 Speaker 1: across China, tens of millions of newly built apartments lie vacant. 21 00:01:16,240 --> 00:01:20,640 Speaker 1: Developers are struggling to finish construction and homeowners are watching 22 00:01:20,640 --> 00:01:24,319 Speaker 1: their property values plummet. All of this is putting the 23 00:01:24,360 --> 00:01:28,160 Speaker 1: central and local governments under immense pressure to turn the 24 00:01:28,200 --> 00:01:29,560 Speaker 1: property market around. 25 00:01:30,000 --> 00:01:33,080 Speaker 2: So the big question is where are we in this 26 00:01:33,280 --> 00:01:38,080 Speaker 2: property crisis and what has been done? Is it working? 27 00:01:38,440 --> 00:01:42,720 Speaker 1: Lulu Chen is Bloomberg's editor for Asia Finance and Investing. 28 00:01:42,720 --> 00:01:46,039 Speaker 2: And I would say that Seizinping and his government came 29 00:01:46,160 --> 00:01:49,720 Speaker 2: up with this miracle pill, which is that they are 30 00:01:49,760 --> 00:01:53,040 Speaker 2: going to let the local governments by the unsold inventory, 31 00:01:53,320 --> 00:01:58,639 Speaker 2: access inventory and converted into affordable housing. Now, in theory, 32 00:01:59,000 --> 00:02:01,560 Speaker 2: great idea, but on the ground it's running into all 33 00:02:01,640 --> 00:02:02,520 Speaker 2: kinds of challenges. 34 00:02:07,280 --> 00:02:10,640 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Big Take Asia from Bloomberg News. I'm Wanha. 35 00:02:11,320 --> 00:02:13,840 Speaker 1: Every week we take you inside some of the world's 36 00:02:13,880 --> 00:02:18,320 Speaker 1: biggest and most powerful economies and the markets, tycoons and 37 00:02:18,480 --> 00:02:22,840 Speaker 1: businesses that drive this ever shifting region. Today on the show, 38 00:02:23,240 --> 00:02:27,639 Speaker 1: China's Housing Rescue Plan. What is the Chinese government doing 39 00:02:27,919 --> 00:02:31,480 Speaker 1: to save the property market, Is it working, and what's 40 00:02:31,520 --> 00:02:40,800 Speaker 1: at stake if it fails. To take a closer look 41 00:02:40,840 --> 00:02:43,960 Speaker 1: at what exactly the Chinese government has tried to do 42 00:02:44,200 --> 00:02:47,760 Speaker 1: to boost the housing market, Lulu and other Bloomberg reporters 43 00:02:47,800 --> 00:02:50,919 Speaker 1: decided to focus in on a city called junk Joo. 44 00:02:52,440 --> 00:02:55,640 Speaker 2: Chung Sho is ground zero for a China's housing crisis. 45 00:02:55,880 --> 00:02:59,240 Speaker 2: It was one of the first few studies that saw 46 00:02:59,320 --> 00:03:02,799 Speaker 2: its real estate market crash. It was at the center 47 00:03:02,880 --> 00:03:06,040 Speaker 2: of the mortgage boycotts if you remember a few years back, 48 00:03:06,040 --> 00:03:10,280 Speaker 2: when people refused to pay their mortgages because the developers 49 00:03:10,320 --> 00:03:14,760 Speaker 2: were not able to finish the construction on the houses 50 00:03:14,800 --> 00:03:16,079 Speaker 2: that they already pre sold. 51 00:03:16,720 --> 00:03:19,680 Speaker 1: Junk Jo is a city of about twelve million people. 52 00:03:19,960 --> 00:03:23,120 Speaker 1: It's located in the Yellow River Valley in the heartland 53 00:03:23,200 --> 00:03:24,080 Speaker 1: of China. 54 00:03:24,200 --> 00:03:27,040 Speaker 2: It's the capital of Nam Province and that used to 55 00:03:27,120 --> 00:03:32,040 Speaker 2: be one of the nation's forest provinces. Junzhou these days 56 00:03:32,120 --> 00:03:35,440 Speaker 2: is most famous for being home to the largest iPhone factory, 57 00:03:35,520 --> 00:03:37,880 Speaker 2: Fox Cohn. They have their largest factory there. 58 00:03:38,960 --> 00:03:42,560 Speaker 1: The arrival of factories supporting Fox KHN and the ev 59 00:03:42,680 --> 00:03:46,640 Speaker 1: maker byd kicked off a period of rapid growth in 60 00:03:46,680 --> 00:03:50,120 Speaker 1: the city and new residential communities sprouted up. 61 00:03:50,280 --> 00:03:53,960 Speaker 2: Before the market crash. Junho was super ambitious. They wanted 62 00:03:53,960 --> 00:03:57,280 Speaker 2: to attract talent and investment. They wanted to become a 63 00:03:57,280 --> 00:04:02,480 Speaker 2: financial center, a logistics hub, hub and they even built 64 00:04:02,480 --> 00:04:06,120 Speaker 2: this massive artificial lake and Mammadde Financial Island. 65 00:04:07,320 --> 00:04:10,200 Speaker 1: But Lulu says, even in the early days, there were 66 00:04:10,240 --> 00:04:13,880 Speaker 1: signals that jung Chou probably had overbuilt. 67 00:04:14,000 --> 00:04:18,200 Speaker 2: I was reporting a story about China's property bubble about 68 00:04:18,200 --> 00:04:21,840 Speaker 2: twelve years ago, and we did look at Jungzhou, and 69 00:04:22,080 --> 00:04:24,960 Speaker 2: that was a place back then already attracted a lot 70 00:04:24,960 --> 00:04:29,640 Speaker 2: of skepticism. People were calling a ghost town. And even 71 00:04:29,720 --> 00:04:32,560 Speaker 2: back then it was you could see construction everywhere and 72 00:04:32,839 --> 00:04:36,560 Speaker 2: plots and plots of fields being converted into land for 73 00:04:36,680 --> 00:04:39,760 Speaker 2: real estate. Given how things have panned out, for sure, 74 00:04:39,880 --> 00:04:44,320 Speaker 2: and I think like the skepticism of them being overreaching 75 00:04:44,440 --> 00:04:48,280 Speaker 2: and taking on too much debt was evident even more 76 00:04:48,320 --> 00:04:49,279 Speaker 2: than a decade ago. 77 00:04:49,480 --> 00:04:53,599 Speaker 1: Bloomberg reporters recently traveled to Junchhou, and Lulu says the 78 00:04:53,640 --> 00:04:56,360 Speaker 1: city feels less of a ghost town these days, but 79 00:04:56,480 --> 00:04:59,680 Speaker 1: it still looks like a gigantic construction site. 80 00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:02,320 Speaker 2: If you travel to Junjo today, you would see the 81 00:05:02,360 --> 00:05:06,240 Speaker 2: whole city just rife with half finished projects and government 82 00:05:06,320 --> 00:05:10,080 Speaker 2: loans are having some effect. Cranes are warring again, but 83 00:05:10,360 --> 00:05:14,720 Speaker 2: it's still stacks and stacks of empty buildings, empty skyscrapers, 84 00:05:14,800 --> 00:05:18,680 Speaker 2: and these massive boulevards with very few cars, lands that 85 00:05:18,760 --> 00:05:22,279 Speaker 2: were slated for development sitting idle, so much so that 86 00:05:22,520 --> 00:05:24,880 Speaker 2: locals have turned them into vegetable gardens. 87 00:05:25,360 --> 00:05:28,440 Speaker 1: In the decade through twenty twenty, junk Jou's urban area 88 00:05:28,600 --> 00:05:32,080 Speaker 1: more than doubled, but the population only grew less than 89 00:05:32,120 --> 00:05:35,560 Speaker 1: fifty percent. And Lulu, why is it that junk jo 90 00:05:35,839 --> 00:05:38,800 Speaker 1: never realized its goals? Why can't it just build its 91 00:05:38,839 --> 00:05:40,000 Speaker 1: way into prosperity. 92 00:05:40,320 --> 00:05:44,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, well location, so Junjo is in the heartland of China, 93 00:05:44,680 --> 00:05:48,400 Speaker 2: and the context for their ambition is while they were 94 00:05:48,520 --> 00:05:52,240 Speaker 2: plotting this out, there were one hundred other cities who 95 00:05:52,320 --> 00:05:55,039 Speaker 2: wanted to be the saying they all wanted to be 96 00:05:55,360 --> 00:05:58,520 Speaker 2: technology hubs, they all wanted to be financial hubs. So 97 00:05:58,600 --> 00:06:02,799 Speaker 2: think of Junjho, but times by dozens or even hundreds. 98 00:06:03,080 --> 00:06:05,599 Speaker 2: And this was happening across China at the time. 99 00:06:05,960 --> 00:06:09,280 Speaker 1: And when the city government in junk Joe finally realized 100 00:06:09,320 --> 00:06:12,159 Speaker 1: that they were in trouble in twenty twenty two, they 101 00:06:12,200 --> 00:06:13,279 Speaker 1: sprang into action. 102 00:06:13,839 --> 00:06:17,679 Speaker 2: Juanjou threw everything on the wall after the property crisis happened. 103 00:06:17,960 --> 00:06:21,479 Speaker 2: They've tried so many ideas that officials from other cities 104 00:06:21,520 --> 00:06:24,640 Speaker 2: have been flocking there to study the model. They gave 105 00:06:24,839 --> 00:06:29,240 Speaker 2: loans to developers, trying to help them complete and finish projects. 106 00:06:29,400 --> 00:06:33,640 Speaker 2: They offer to buy surplus units, and even subsidies payments 107 00:06:33,680 --> 00:06:36,520 Speaker 2: to residents who would replace their outdate at homes. 108 00:06:37,040 --> 00:06:40,520 Speaker 1: Junk Cho's government purchased more than one hundred thousand unsold 109 00:06:40,600 --> 00:06:44,160 Speaker 1: units from real estate developers. It didn't say how much 110 00:06:44,240 --> 00:06:47,760 Speaker 1: money it spent, but local media Taishin reported the amount 111 00:06:47,880 --> 00:06:51,960 Speaker 1: could be around thirty billion yuen or about four billion dollars. 112 00:06:52,640 --> 00:06:56,279 Speaker 1: According to a state backed magazine, about three quarters of 113 00:06:56,279 --> 00:06:59,560 Speaker 1: the funding comes from commercial bank loans and the interest 114 00:06:59,600 --> 00:07:03,320 Speaker 1: rate was only three percent. And what did they do 115 00:07:03,400 --> 00:07:04,760 Speaker 1: with the properties that they bought. 116 00:07:04,880 --> 00:07:08,000 Speaker 2: They convert the mental affordable housing, which is something that 117 00:07:08,520 --> 00:07:12,960 Speaker 2: she has tried to champion. And these public units would 118 00:07:13,000 --> 00:07:14,720 Speaker 2: be both for sale or for rent. 119 00:07:14,880 --> 00:07:16,480 Speaker 1: And how is that going slowly? 120 00:07:16,720 --> 00:07:19,000 Speaker 2: Is going slowly? I think on the rental friend they 121 00:07:19,160 --> 00:07:22,760 Speaker 2: made some progress in attracting more people. On the sales front, 122 00:07:23,000 --> 00:07:27,040 Speaker 2: it seems that there's simply not enough demand where people 123 00:07:27,080 --> 00:07:30,240 Speaker 2: are willing to buy public housing even at such low 124 00:07:30,320 --> 00:07:33,440 Speaker 2: prices because of the belief that the prices are still 125 00:07:33,480 --> 00:07:34,360 Speaker 2: going to drop. 126 00:07:35,080 --> 00:07:38,640 Speaker 1: In theory, it sounds like a great idea. By purchasing 127 00:07:38,680 --> 00:07:42,400 Speaker 1: these apartments and converting them into public housing, the government 128 00:07:42,520 --> 00:07:45,200 Speaker 1: is trying to kill two birds with one stone to 129 00:07:45,280 --> 00:07:48,600 Speaker 1: absorb the oversupply on the market and to answer present 130 00:07:48,720 --> 00:07:53,040 Speaker 1: She's call to make housing more affordable. But Lulu says, 131 00:07:53,160 --> 00:07:56,720 Speaker 1: in reality, there are a lot of challenges on the ground. 132 00:07:57,320 --> 00:08:01,240 Speaker 2: So something as specific as finding enough apartments that fit 133 00:08:01,320 --> 00:08:05,040 Speaker 2: the criteria of what the government wants. Often they want 134 00:08:05,080 --> 00:08:09,240 Speaker 2: to find entire apartment blocks of small units that can 135 00:08:09,280 --> 00:08:13,520 Speaker 2: be converted into public housing, and that's a huge challenge 136 00:08:13,640 --> 00:08:17,720 Speaker 2: in itself. They also need to access cheap financing to 137 00:08:17,800 --> 00:08:21,120 Speaker 2: make money off of these projects, and then they have 138 00:08:21,240 --> 00:08:25,920 Speaker 2: to persuade the developers to sell these apartments at steep discounts, 139 00:08:26,280 --> 00:08:29,840 Speaker 2: which is another at tension. Goldman Sachs estimates that a 140 00:08:29,920 --> 00:08:33,800 Speaker 2: discount of thirty percent may be needed when they buy 141 00:08:33,840 --> 00:08:37,800 Speaker 2: these properties from the developers. What High Securities was even 142 00:08:37,840 --> 00:08:40,679 Speaker 2: more aggressive. They said that need to mark down the 143 00:08:41,000 --> 00:08:44,000 Speaker 2: property prices by fifty percent when they buy them from 144 00:08:44,040 --> 00:08:44,720 Speaker 2: the developers. 145 00:08:44,880 --> 00:08:45,520 Speaker 1: That's quite a bit. 146 00:08:45,720 --> 00:08:48,720 Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, So the developers aren't willing or simply can't 147 00:08:48,720 --> 00:08:49,480 Speaker 2: afford to do this. 148 00:08:50,200 --> 00:08:53,680 Speaker 1: What the government ideally wants is that in some ways 149 00:08:53,720 --> 00:08:56,560 Speaker 1: the developers, even though they're selling it for discount, they 150 00:08:56,600 --> 00:08:58,160 Speaker 1: can at least. 151 00:08:58,280 --> 00:09:03,000 Speaker 2: What offload the inventory since they're gonna go belly up 152 00:09:03,120 --> 00:09:05,440 Speaker 2: or get liquid at to restructured. 153 00:09:05,760 --> 00:09:07,640 Speaker 1: It sounds like the government has to jump through a 154 00:09:07,679 --> 00:09:12,800 Speaker 1: lot of hopes to make that happen. Yes, and Lulu, 155 00:09:12,960 --> 00:09:14,880 Speaker 1: is this strategy working in Junjo? 156 00:09:15,240 --> 00:09:19,280 Speaker 2: I don't think that's working. Junjo's property prices are still falling, 157 00:09:19,440 --> 00:09:23,360 Speaker 2: and what's happening in Junjo is very indicative of what's 158 00:09:23,400 --> 00:09:26,520 Speaker 2: happening in the rest of China. 159 00:09:27,920 --> 00:09:30,840 Speaker 1: What is happening in the rest of China. What else 160 00:09:30,920 --> 00:09:34,080 Speaker 1: is Beijing doing to shore up the property market and 161 00:09:34,120 --> 00:09:48,360 Speaker 1: can they succeed? That's after the break. China's property crisis 162 00:09:48,400 --> 00:09:51,960 Speaker 1: has become a massive headache for the world's second largest economy. 163 00:09:52,480 --> 00:09:56,080 Speaker 1: Across the country, there are tens of millions of unsold homes. 164 00:09:56,360 --> 00:10:00,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, so, Bloomberg Economics estimates that the country has as 165 00:10:00,440 --> 00:10:04,559 Speaker 2: an inventory of about five point two billion square meters 166 00:10:04,559 --> 00:10:07,520 Speaker 2: of unsold housing. It would be the equivalent of sixty 167 00:10:07,559 --> 00:10:08,559 Speaker 2: million apartments. 168 00:10:09,080 --> 00:10:13,440 Speaker 1: Sixty million apartments, that's enough to house the entire population 169 00:10:13,720 --> 00:10:17,600 Speaker 1: of France. Bloomberg Economics estimates that it would take more 170 00:10:17,640 --> 00:10:21,280 Speaker 1: than four years to sell that inventory. That's assuming sales 171 00:10:21,440 --> 00:10:26,760 Speaker 1: don't keep falling Lulu. These numbers are staggering. What else 172 00:10:26,840 --> 00:10:29,280 Speaker 1: is Beijing doing to support the property market. 173 00:10:29,760 --> 00:10:33,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, They've made it easier and cheaper for people to 174 00:10:33,360 --> 00:10:37,120 Speaker 2: buy homes. They've lowered the existing mortgage rates, which would 175 00:10:37,280 --> 00:10:40,839 Speaker 2: lessen the burden for homeowners. In addition, the government has 176 00:10:40,880 --> 00:10:45,040 Speaker 2: been easing its monetary and fiscal policies since late September, 177 00:10:45,480 --> 00:10:49,680 Speaker 2: and they've also provided lending to developers so they can 178 00:10:49,720 --> 00:10:53,480 Speaker 2: finish approved projects. And this is what we commonly refer 179 00:10:53,559 --> 00:10:58,040 Speaker 2: to as the white list. The goal for whitelist loans 180 00:10:58,200 --> 00:11:01,920 Speaker 2: is to reach Fortrillionnuan, which would be about five hundred 181 00:11:01,960 --> 00:11:05,000 Speaker 2: and fifty billion dollars by the end of twenty twenty four. 182 00:11:05,440 --> 00:11:09,520 Speaker 2: That amount was more than three trillion yuan as of November. 183 00:11:09,640 --> 00:11:12,360 Speaker 1: That's a huge number. That's half a trillion US dollars. 184 00:11:12,600 --> 00:11:14,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's one of the issues. And then the other 185 00:11:14,800 --> 00:11:20,280 Speaker 2: thing is the whitelist loans only address the issue of 186 00:11:20,559 --> 00:11:24,760 Speaker 2: finishing unbuilt projects. Right, there's the other part of the issue, 187 00:11:24,800 --> 00:11:28,800 Speaker 2: which is this excess supply of inventory, and unless the 188 00:11:28,840 --> 00:11:33,840 Speaker 2: government can address this excess inventory issue, the prices are 189 00:11:33,880 --> 00:11:34,800 Speaker 2: not going to rebound. 190 00:11:35,280 --> 00:11:37,800 Speaker 1: Even with the tons of money the central government is 191 00:11:37,840 --> 00:11:40,800 Speaker 1: pouring into the market to turn the property crisis around, 192 00:11:41,240 --> 00:11:45,160 Speaker 1: these fixes don't seem to be working so far. Used 193 00:11:45,160 --> 00:11:48,520 Speaker 1: home prices have declined for thirty nine straight months through 194 00:11:48,520 --> 00:11:52,000 Speaker 1: October to a level about thirty percent below the July 195 00:11:52,120 --> 00:11:56,199 Speaker 1: twenty twenty one peak. Lulu says there's a perfect storm 196 00:11:56,400 --> 00:12:00,360 Speaker 1: of structural issues that helps explain why the government isn't 197 00:12:00,360 --> 00:12:02,439 Speaker 1: really seeing the results they're hoping for. 198 00:12:02,720 --> 00:12:07,520 Speaker 2: Demographic challenges, which means that people are aging, population is dropping, 199 00:12:07,840 --> 00:12:13,880 Speaker 2: not enough demand. Also, the developers persistent liquidity crunch, unfinished 200 00:12:13,920 --> 00:12:17,760 Speaker 2: homes weighing on buyer confidence, and families stuck with this 201 00:12:17,920 --> 00:12:21,880 Speaker 2: mindset that home prices won't rise. Ceazingping has made it 202 00:12:21,960 --> 00:12:25,920 Speaker 2: quite clear that he doesn't want housing as a speculative investment. 203 00:12:26,120 --> 00:12:29,439 Speaker 2: With that kind of messaging, people are going to interpret that. 204 00:12:29,559 --> 00:12:33,000 Speaker 2: The overarching guidance is still that there is no upside 205 00:12:33,360 --> 00:12:36,160 Speaker 2: in investing in real estate, and what would be the 206 00:12:36,200 --> 00:12:37,800 Speaker 2: point in buying apartments. 207 00:12:39,000 --> 00:12:43,400 Speaker 1: Fundamentally, it all boils down to simple economics. There's too 208 00:12:43,440 --> 00:12:46,600 Speaker 1: many apartments and there's not enough people who want to 209 00:12:46,640 --> 00:12:50,440 Speaker 1: buy them, And Lulu says, if the government can't figure 210 00:12:50,480 --> 00:12:53,200 Speaker 1: out a way to ease the crisis and stabilize the 211 00:12:53,240 --> 00:12:57,560 Speaker 1: housing market, there could be even bigger consequences for the country. 212 00:12:58,200 --> 00:13:01,959 Speaker 2: At this moment, the property crisis is the greatest threat 213 00:13:02,000 --> 00:13:05,560 Speaker 2: to China's economy, and to a certain extent, it's the 214 00:13:05,600 --> 00:13:11,800 Speaker 2: government's owndoing because they're policy restrictions on developer leverage exacerbated 215 00:13:11,960 --> 00:13:15,880 Speaker 2: and triggered this unfolding of the real estate sector that 216 00:13:16,040 --> 00:13:20,000 Speaker 2: was already facing so many structural issues. You combine this 217 00:13:20,200 --> 00:13:26,520 Speaker 2: with the job losses, youth unemployment, China's export challenges, Trump tariffs, 218 00:13:26,559 --> 00:13:30,760 Speaker 2: and aging society that where all these households are counting 219 00:13:30,800 --> 00:13:34,320 Speaker 2: on real estate for about eighty percent of household wealth. 220 00:13:34,800 --> 00:13:40,079 Speaker 2: And what you have to is the perfect storm. 221 00:13:40,840 --> 00:13:44,359 Speaker 1: This is the Big take Asia from Bloomberg News. I'm Wanha. 222 00:13:44,960 --> 00:13:48,479 Speaker 1: Listen to our previous episode on China's real estate meltdown 223 00:13:48,600 --> 00:13:52,800 Speaker 1: after the nation's biggest developer, Country Garden, defaulted, and how 224 00:13:52,800 --> 00:13:56,320 Speaker 1: it upended hundreds of thousands of lives. You can find 225 00:13:56,360 --> 00:13:59,439 Speaker 1: the link in the show notes. This episode was produced 226 00:13:59,440 --> 00:14:02,760 Speaker 1: by Young Yah Naomi Um and Jessica Beck. It was 227 00:14:02,800 --> 00:14:06,040 Speaker 1: mixed by Alex Suguiera and fact checked by Adrianna Tapia. 228 00:14:06,520 --> 00:14:10,160 Speaker 1: It was edited by Caitlin Kenney and David Scanlan. Naomi 229 00:14:10,240 --> 00:14:13,920 Speaker 1: Shaven is our senior producer, Elizabeth Ponso is our senior editor, 230 00:14:14,320 --> 00:14:18,000 Speaker 1: Nicole Beemster Bower is our executive producer, and Sage Bauman 231 00:14:18,120 --> 00:14:21,400 Speaker 1: is Bloomberg's head of podcasts. Please follow and review The 232 00:14:21,400 --> 00:14:24,920 Speaker 1: Big Tick Asia wherever you listen to podcasts. It really 233 00:14:24,960 --> 00:14:27,920 Speaker 1: helps new listeners find the show. See you next time.