WEBVTT - The Love Triangle, The Ladies Man, and The Deadly Loan 0:00:01.240 --> 0:00:03.520 Falling in love is the best feeling in the world. 0:00:04.040 --> 0:00:07.560 You see stars, you feel giddy, But sometimes that makes 0:00:07.560 --> 0:00:13.000 you do crazy things, and sometimes that means murder. Just 0:00:13.119 --> 0:00:15.840 because the story starts out with once upon a Times 0:00:16.200 --> 0:00:20.640 doesn't mean it ends happily ever after. Welcome to Crazy 0:00:20.680 --> 0:00:23.960 and Love, a production of Katie Studios and I Heart Radio. 0:00:24.840 --> 0:00:28.200 Today's guests are crime producers Jeff Shane and Chris Graves, 0:00:28.520 --> 0:00:34.360 joined by true crime expert Lea Lamar. Leah is a writer, actress, producer, director, 0:00:34.640 --> 0:00:39.240 stand up comedian, and clubhouse app influencer. She also hosts 0:00:39.280 --> 0:00:42.680 the I Heart Media podcast Real Time Crime with Teddy Mellencamp, 0:00:42.800 --> 0:00:46.960 available now. You can find her on Instagram at Lea Lamar. 0:00:48.800 --> 0:00:53.840 Episode sixteen, The Case of the Love Triangle, The Ladies Man, 0:00:54.560 --> 0:01:00.480 and the Deadly Loan. In the mid two thousands in 0:01:00.520 --> 0:01:04.920 Mississippi lived Avis Banks and Carla Hughes, with so many 0:01:04.959 --> 0:01:07.880 similarities in any other circumstance that two women could have 0:01:07.880 --> 0:01:11.840 been friends. Avis Banks was the middle of three sisters. 0:01:12.640 --> 0:01:15.880 Despite coming from humble beginnings, Avis had dreams of being 0:01:15.880 --> 0:01:19.080 a teacher and owning her own daycare. She was the 0:01:19.120 --> 0:01:21.120 first in her family to go to College, where she 0:01:21.160 --> 0:01:25.120 graduated kum laude. People who knew Avis described her as 0:01:25.200 --> 0:01:30.279 smart and beautiful. Like Avis, Carlo was an incredibly driven 0:01:30.319 --> 0:01:34.040 and gifted student. She was on the Honorable Student Council, 0:01:34.200 --> 0:01:37.000 the cheerleading squad. She played in the school band, and 0:01:37.160 --> 0:01:42.000 participated in beauty pageants where she won multiple crowns. Friends 0:01:42.040 --> 0:01:46.120 described her as happy and bubbly and eternal cheerleader. She 0:01:46.280 --> 0:01:49.760 too had aspirations of becoming a teacher. So how did 0:01:49.760 --> 0:01:52.400 these two women with such bright futures and so much 0:01:52.440 --> 0:01:57.880 in common end up intersecting and tragedy? Enter Kian Pittman. 0:01:58.920 --> 0:02:05.840 Kian was Avis's fiance and Carla's closest friend. Here's Chris 0:02:07.760 --> 0:02:10.080 in two thousand and six, Avis and Kian. You know, 0:02:10.120 --> 0:02:14.000 they're dating and they find out that they're pregnant. Because 0:02:14.040 --> 0:02:16.399 Avis came from strict parents, she was nervous to tell 0:02:16.440 --> 0:02:18.320 them that she was having a baby out of wedlock. 0:02:18.680 --> 0:02:21.040 So the couple got engaged. They were planning to get 0:02:21.080 --> 0:02:23.720 married in January two thou seven, right before the baby 0:02:23.760 --> 0:02:27.080 was due in February. As is seven years old, so 0:02:27.320 --> 0:02:30.600 you know, she's still in her twenties. Keian moved them 0:02:30.639 --> 0:02:33.079 from their small apartment to a house in the suburbs 0:02:33.080 --> 0:02:36.040 because of gout, the expecting family, Yeah, and Chris. While 0:02:36.040 --> 0:02:37.880 all that was happening, in the spring of two thousand 0:02:37.919 --> 0:02:40.400 and six, when she was twenty five, Carla took a 0:02:40.520 --> 0:02:43.239 job at Chestate Middle School as a language artist teacher, 0:02:43.680 --> 0:02:45.880 and this was really her dream job. It was a 0:02:45.880 --> 0:02:48.600 good town, a good position, and she was really excited 0:02:48.600 --> 0:02:50.840 about the job so much though, that she scrambled to 0:02:50.880 --> 0:02:52.920 make the move, wing to an apartment in a bad 0:02:53.000 --> 0:02:55.520 part of town, which she told her family was just 0:02:55.560 --> 0:02:58.680 temporary until she could get a better place, which really 0:02:58.680 --> 0:03:00.760 just speaks to how excited she was to make this move. 0:03:01.200 --> 0:03:03.920 When school started, she did really well, which is a 0:03:03.919 --> 0:03:06.720 surprise to know when she was everyone's favorite teacher. Even 0:03:06.840 --> 0:03:09.639 students who weren't hers loved her the most. And Leah, 0:03:09.639 --> 0:03:12.680 do you know how Carla and Kian ended up intersecting 0:03:13.200 --> 0:03:15.440 Because Carla was new in town and she didn't know 0:03:15.520 --> 0:03:19.520 anyone naturally, she started to form friendships at school, where 0:03:19.560 --> 0:03:22.240 she met cam So at thirty one. Can was a 0:03:22.280 --> 0:03:25.680 math and science teacher. He was also a basketball coach 0:03:25.720 --> 0:03:29.000 at school, and he was super popular amongst the teachers 0:03:29.040 --> 0:03:32.440 as well they spent a lot of time together at school, 0:03:32.840 --> 0:03:35.760 and she would also sometimes visit him at a Text 0:03:35.840 --> 0:03:41.000 Mex restaurant where he tended bar at night. So at 0:03:41.040 --> 0:03:43.920 one point they became so close that Carla brought Can 0:03:44.040 --> 0:03:47.080 home to meet her parents. But by all accounts, it 0:03:47.160 --> 0:03:52.120 was honestly, very strictly platonic, and Carla told people that 0:03:52.720 --> 0:03:57.280 Kalen's fiance Avis, knew all about her and absolutely supported 0:03:57.280 --> 0:04:01.880 their friendship. So this is kind of an interesting start. 0:04:01.920 --> 0:04:04.960 There are a lot of similarities between Carla and Avis, 0:04:05.080 --> 0:04:09.120 Kian's fiancee. Yeah, definitely seems like maybe Kian has a type. 0:04:09.160 --> 0:04:12.000 You know, he likes a driven woman who also works 0:04:12.000 --> 0:04:14.760 in education. It seems to me that, like the idea 0:04:14.760 --> 0:04:17.400 that they were platonic is hard to believe. What do 0:04:17.400 --> 0:04:19.880 you guys think he has a type? Clearly? I think 0:04:19.920 --> 0:04:22.359 that if you're spending that much time with someone and 0:04:22.400 --> 0:04:25.800 you're introducing them to your parents, you're obsessed with them, 0:04:25.839 --> 0:04:27.800 you're in love, but you're hoping this is the one. 0:04:28.080 --> 0:04:31.679 That's just my opin right. I've never introduced someone who's 0:04:31.760 --> 0:04:35.320 not someone I'm romantically interested into my family certainly, and 0:04:35.320 --> 0:04:38.200 I wouldn't drive them home to meet my parents. If 0:04:38.240 --> 0:04:41.480 I'm introducing my family, I'm in love with you. That 0:04:41.560 --> 0:04:44.440 being said, Carla was new in town and was maybe 0:04:44.440 --> 0:04:46.960 desperate to make any sort of connection, whether it be 0:04:47.000 --> 0:04:49.000 male or female, and she just so happened to become 0:04:49.040 --> 0:04:52.520 friends with Kian, and because she didn't know anyone else, 0:04:52.520 --> 0:04:54.480 she really put a lot of weight into that friendship 0:04:54.600 --> 0:04:58.719 or relationship. I think feelings naturally grow if you were 0:04:58.800 --> 0:05:01.120 the opposite sex and you're spending a lot of time together. 0:05:01.320 --> 0:05:03.080 And if it's not feelings that you've had the thought, 0:05:03.680 --> 0:05:06.119 you had the thought of should I date this person, 0:05:06.200 --> 0:05:08.919 should I kiss this person? Should I marry this person 0:05:08.960 --> 0:05:11.400 and spend the rest of my life making them miserable? 0:05:11.720 --> 0:05:14.000 You know, at least I've had those thoughts. It would 0:05:14.000 --> 0:05:19.040 be hard not to. Yeah. On November twenty and six, 0:05:19.120 --> 0:05:22.040 Davis went to her job at the daycare. It was 0:05:22.040 --> 0:05:24.680 an especially busy day with more kids than usual, so 0:05:24.760 --> 0:05:28.599 she had to work two hours late. At five pm, 0:05:28.720 --> 0:05:32.719 she was exhausted. She called Kian on her way home 0:05:32.760 --> 0:05:34.839 and told him she didn't feel like dealing with dinner, 0:05:35.040 --> 0:05:38.960 so he said he would handle it. After teaching at school, 0:05:39.040 --> 0:05:41.400 Kian went to the grocery store and picked up supplies 0:05:41.440 --> 0:05:45.000 for dinner. He had to go back to school for 0:05:45.040 --> 0:05:47.640 basketball practice that evening, so he brought the food to 0:05:47.680 --> 0:05:51.720 Carlos to store it in the fridge. She lived much 0:05:51.760 --> 0:05:54.400 closer to school than Keion did, so it made sense 0:05:54.440 --> 0:05:56.320 to leave it there as opposed to letting it spoil 0:05:56.400 --> 0:06:01.680 in his car. After practice, Kion went back to Carla's 0:06:01.720 --> 0:06:04.840 and they chatted for about forty five minutes. Then he 0:06:04.839 --> 0:06:09.839 headed home at PM. When he pulled into the driveway, 0:06:10.400 --> 0:06:12.920 he opened the garage and as he walked into the house, 0:06:13.080 --> 0:06:17.680 he made an alarming discovery. Laying by the door, covered 0:06:17.680 --> 0:06:21.240 in blood, was his fiancee Avis. Panicked, he tried to 0:06:21.240 --> 0:06:23.440 shake her awake, even kissing her on the mouth, but 0:06:23.480 --> 0:06:28.040 it was all for not. She appeared lifeless. Kian ran 0:06:28.080 --> 0:06:31.240 to his neighbor's house for help. The neighbor called nine. 0:06:32.400 --> 0:06:35.200 When police arrived, they saw the house had been ransacked. 0:06:36.120 --> 0:06:40.920 Police also confirmed what Kian had feared. Avis and her 0:06:41.000 --> 0:06:46.360 unborn child were dead. Someone had shot, stabbed and slashed 0:06:46.360 --> 0:06:52.360 her throat. Here's Chris, that's pretty brutal scene they're describing. There. 0:06:52.600 --> 0:06:54.800 One thing that investigators do I know from covering a 0:06:54.839 --> 0:06:57.760 lot of these cases is especially when a place looks ransacked, 0:06:57.839 --> 0:07:00.880 they look for clues of weather still was actually gone, 0:07:00.960 --> 0:07:03.640 where their valuables are gone, because that's the true marker 0:07:03.680 --> 0:07:06.040 of a robbery. And one thing that caught their attention 0:07:06.160 --> 0:07:09.280 was that it looked ransacked, but nothing of value was 0:07:09.320 --> 0:07:13.440 really gone. The burglars, if they had been ones, left 0:07:13.480 --> 0:07:17.160 a DVD player, TV, the stereo, you know, So that's 0:07:17.200 --> 0:07:19.200 always a clue to them that something else might be 0:07:19.240 --> 0:07:21.800 going on. So they start kind of looking at the 0:07:21.800 --> 0:07:23.960 scene and it looks like a crime of passion. Those 0:07:24.000 --> 0:07:26.840 are usually ones that you know, where it's the person 0:07:26.920 --> 0:07:30.040 has been killed in a very violent manner. Based on 0:07:30.160 --> 0:07:32.720 the evidence at the scene, the police thought that the 0:07:32.760 --> 0:07:35.360 weapon that was used might have been a five shot revolver, 0:07:35.800 --> 0:07:38.800 and then the police were able to find one piece 0:07:38.840 --> 0:07:41.280 of evidence, which was a shoe print on a kicked 0:07:41.280 --> 0:07:44.640 in door. As the fiance and the person to find 0:07:44.680 --> 0:07:49.240 the body, he was immediately brought in for questioning, and 0:07:49.280 --> 0:07:53.400 then during the questioning he actually didn't seem that upset 0:07:54.680 --> 0:07:57.119 the way that you would expect someone who just lost 0:07:57.200 --> 0:08:01.640 their fiance and baby to be to be. He seemed 0:08:01.840 --> 0:08:06.040 apparently emotionless, and he was even angry that he was 0:08:06.080 --> 0:08:11.200 being suspected by the police despite no one even accusing him. 0:08:11.240 --> 0:08:15.440 He was super defensive and he denied having any involvement 0:08:15.440 --> 0:08:18.640 in the murder whatsoever. And that wasn't the only thing 0:08:18.640 --> 0:08:21.160 that made detectives look at Kian. As it turns out, 0:08:21.200 --> 0:08:23.880 the same neighbor who called nm on one told detectives 0:08:23.880 --> 0:08:26.560 that Kian always came home and walked to the front 0:08:26.600 --> 0:08:29.200 door and he never used the garage, but on the 0:08:29.320 --> 0:08:31.800 night of the murder, he did go through the garage, 0:08:32.160 --> 0:08:35.320 which led police to believe that maybe he might have 0:08:35.480 --> 0:08:37.280 known there was a body there and he had to 0:08:37.280 --> 0:08:40.480 go find it in that way. Another thing that struck 0:08:40.480 --> 0:08:43.800 police as weird was that when he found Davis, instead 0:08:43.800 --> 0:08:46.560 of calling m one on his cell phone, he called Carla. 0:08:47.600 --> 0:08:49.440 He told police this was because he was scared and 0:08:49.440 --> 0:08:52.200 panicked and asked her to come over to help him. 0:08:52.240 --> 0:08:54.719 And even if that were true, why not then called 0:08:54.800 --> 0:08:58.120 nm on one After making this called Carla, the police asked, 0:08:58.320 --> 0:09:00.080 He told them that he was worried the call to 0:09:00.160 --> 0:09:02.880 get rerouted, which would slow down police response, so instead 0:09:02.920 --> 0:09:05.280 he ran to a neighbor's banged on the door and 0:09:05.320 --> 0:09:07.280 had them call then one one. If you believe what 0:09:07.360 --> 0:09:09.840 Kiana is saying, he just found his fiance murdered in 0:09:09.840 --> 0:09:12.760 the garage, so he might be in shock. But I 0:09:12.840 --> 0:09:15.200 don't think if I were in shock that my first 0:09:15.200 --> 0:09:17.480 response would be to think about cell phone calls getting 0:09:17.480 --> 0:09:21.040 rerouted to various towers and think that would slow down police. 0:09:21.040 --> 0:09:22.520 I think my first reaction would just be to like 0:09:22.520 --> 0:09:24.720 call no one immediately. I don't know what do you 0:09:24.720 --> 0:09:28.320 guys think? Yeah, I completely agree with that. I think 0:09:29.679 --> 0:09:34.200 if I find a dead body, I'm not calling a friend. 0:09:34.600 --> 0:09:38.200 I'm pretty sure my friends can't help me. If there's 0:09:38.240 --> 0:09:40.640 a dead body that the people I should be calling 0:09:40.840 --> 0:09:46.080 are the hospital, the police, anyone who can come and 0:09:46.080 --> 0:09:49.840 take care of an obvious crime scene. And I think 0:09:49.880 --> 0:09:54.080 the thing that's so interesting is that the staged crime scene, 0:09:54.200 --> 0:09:58.160 the faked break in. You know, I know you guys 0:09:58.200 --> 0:10:01.600 are also true crime experts, So there are so many 0:10:01.679 --> 0:10:05.079 cases where there they find the body and there is 0:10:05.160 --> 0:10:08.320 some sort of stage break in, which is just like, yeah, 0:10:08.360 --> 0:10:11.200 the calls coming from inside the house, we know what's 0:10:11.240 --> 0:10:14.440 going on. This is an inside job. This isn't a 0:10:14.600 --> 0:10:17.920 random person coming in to steal something, and then it 0:10:18.000 --> 0:10:20.240 going sideways and they're like, you know what, I'm actually 0:10:20.320 --> 0:10:23.040 just going to commit murder and not take anything. You know, 0:10:23.120 --> 0:10:26.520 that doesn't even add up. So I don't know why 0:10:26.559 --> 0:10:30.640 they would even bother with faking the burglary, because it 0:10:30.720 --> 0:10:34.240 doesn't unless they steal something. There was one thing that 0:10:34.320 --> 0:10:38.120 struck me odd about the story itself. He said that 0:10:38.160 --> 0:10:41.000 it was easier to put groceries in her apartment. I 0:10:41.040 --> 0:10:43.000 don't know what schools you guys have been in, but 0:10:43.240 --> 0:10:47.360 almost every teacher's lounge, and I'm assuming wherever he coached 0:10:47.360 --> 0:10:52.240 basketball from there's generally refrigerators there, Like, wouldn't it make 0:10:52.320 --> 0:10:55.280 more sense to put it in the refrigerator at school? 0:10:55.679 --> 0:10:56.719 I mean, I don't know, I don't know if the 0:10:56.760 --> 0:10:59.120 school has it or not, but that to me, I 0:10:59.200 --> 0:11:01.400 was like, when I read that out, Mike, why are 0:11:01.440 --> 0:11:04.320 you putting it into friends house unless you went there 0:11:04.960 --> 0:11:09.040 to have part of your illicit affair. Well, the other 0:11:09.120 --> 0:11:13.920 thing is that he apparently never went through the garage store. 0:11:14.040 --> 0:11:16.240 He would always be through the front door, so it's 0:11:16.280 --> 0:11:18.200 almost as if he knew he was going to find 0:11:18.200 --> 0:11:21.400 the body. He just went straight forward. And I think 0:11:21.440 --> 0:11:25.640 that that makes him even guiltier in some respect. Is 0:11:25.679 --> 0:11:28.520 it always the boyfriend? Is it always the significant other, 0:11:29.320 --> 0:11:31.840 you know, in the in the case of Scott Peterson 0:11:31.880 --> 0:11:35.680 and Lacy Peterson, yes, in the case of Gabby Patito 0:11:35.760 --> 0:11:40.240 Brian Laundry, yes, is it always the case? No, However, 0:11:40.520 --> 0:11:44.800 they are the first person suspected, right, And if we 0:11:44.840 --> 0:11:47.520 look at it with that lens, I mean, he finds 0:11:47.520 --> 0:11:49.800 her and he claims he's not sure what happened, so 0:11:49.880 --> 0:11:51.640 much so that he kisses her. He tries to wake 0:11:51.640 --> 0:11:53.680 her up, so he thinks she might still be alive. 0:11:53.960 --> 0:11:57.600 He wastes valuable time then calling Carla and not using 0:11:57.640 --> 0:11:59.559 his cellphone to call them on one himself instead of 0:11:59.600 --> 0:12:01.720 running over the neighbor. So at this point he thinks 0:12:01.840 --> 0:12:03.760 she might still be alive, and his first reaction is 0:12:03.800 --> 0:12:06.600 to call Carla. But also, I mean the fact that 0:12:06.640 --> 0:12:10.079 he's kissing a body that is obviously in a pool 0:12:10.120 --> 0:12:12.480 of blood. I mean, if there was stab wounds, if 0:12:12.480 --> 0:12:15.199 it wasn't just gunshot, if there was more going on there, 0:12:15.559 --> 0:12:19.000 you know, like if he had said CPR, that's one thing. 0:12:19.760 --> 0:12:22.320 But yeah, you don't revive someone with a kiss. I 0:12:22.360 --> 0:12:25.160 honestly think the kiss on the lips is more indicative 0:12:25.360 --> 0:12:29.080 of guilts. It's almost like I'm so sorry, you know, 0:12:29.120 --> 0:12:31.120 and it's like just the last time I'll get kissed 0:12:31.120 --> 0:12:33.440 this person sort of thing. Well, I would he even 0:12:33.440 --> 0:12:35.280 tell police that he did that, because it's not like 0:12:35.320 --> 0:12:37.439 they were testing her lips for his d n A. 0:12:38.240 --> 0:12:39.600 I don't even think they could do that. It's just 0:12:39.640 --> 0:12:42.600 a weird detail to even include. Yeah, if he'd gotten 0:12:42.600 --> 0:12:44.319 her blood on his lips or somewhere and he thought 0:12:44.360 --> 0:12:46.240 they'd be testing he maybe he was telling him that 0:12:46.320 --> 0:12:49.080 so they knew why. Right, But he as a teacher, 0:12:49.080 --> 0:12:51.920 and generally, if it's a public school and whatever, I think, 0:12:52.040 --> 0:12:56.240 especially a coach would probably have CPR training. Why because 0:12:56.280 --> 0:13:01.000 students have accidents and if the nerve she's too far away, 0:13:01.160 --> 0:13:03.640 you want the teacher to be able to do something 0:13:03.679 --> 0:13:06.720 about it. Right, So his first instinct is a kiss 0:13:06.720 --> 0:13:11.600 and not Cprso the next day police showed up at 0:13:11.679 --> 0:13:15.800 Chastain Middle School to speak with Carla herself. At school, 0:13:15.840 --> 0:13:19.840 she told detectives about her close friendship with Kian, but 0:13:20.000 --> 0:13:24.600 adamantly denied anything romantic was going on. Wanting more information, 0:13:24.720 --> 0:13:26.719 she was asked to come to the station, which she 0:13:26.760 --> 0:13:31.880 agreed to. It was there that Carla's story changed. While 0:13:31.960 --> 0:13:35.840 she still corroborated Keian's story about the groceries and denied 0:13:35.880 --> 0:13:39.480 having anything to do with Davis's murder, Carla admitted that 0:13:39.520 --> 0:13:43.959 things were in fact physical with Kian. Take a listen 0:13:44.040 --> 0:13:49.880 to some of her interview, being a passionate towards each other. 0:13:50.480 --> 0:13:53.800 But in the most maybe it's just a little kisses. 0:13:54.160 --> 0:13:56.200 But as far as she's life is full of al 0:13:56.240 --> 0:13:59.680 balone romantic lover and said, that's not what it was 0:14:00.000 --> 0:14:04.480 in mind. It wasn't we're going to take a quick break. 0:14:04.800 --> 0:14:20.040 We'll be back in just a moment. It seems to 0:14:20.080 --> 0:14:22.240 me like Kean and Carl are really having an affair. 0:14:22.440 --> 0:14:25.680 And it also seemed to be the worst kept secret. 0:14:25.680 --> 0:14:27.760 At the middle school they worked at, they were using 0:14:27.760 --> 0:14:30.480 the students as messengers, you know, like we used to 0:14:30.600 --> 0:14:33.280 back in the day with notes and passing them. I mean, 0:14:33.320 --> 0:14:37.000 that's pretty terrible to include their students in that. And 0:14:37.400 --> 0:14:40.960 witnesses from school said that they've been seeing canoodling and 0:14:40.960 --> 0:14:45.080 cuddling around campus. People from the bar he on work 0:14:45.160 --> 0:14:47.640 that said they'd witnessed them full on making out. I 0:14:47.680 --> 0:14:49.320 mean Jeff, I don't know what you make of that, 0:14:49.400 --> 0:14:51.920 but it sounds to me like there was probably more 0:14:51.960 --> 0:14:54.600 going on than even she told the police. Yeah. I mean, 0:14:54.640 --> 0:14:57.480 first off, changing your story is an immediate issue, and 0:14:57.520 --> 0:15:00.800 that always points to guilt. That she automatically was happy forthcoming. 0:15:00.920 --> 0:15:03.720 It's a major red flag, I would say, for the investigation. 0:15:04.400 --> 0:15:08.080 But as it turns out, Kian was actually fooling around 0:15:08.080 --> 0:15:09.800 with a lot of different woman. He was known as 0:15:09.800 --> 0:15:12.240 a ladies man who had multiple girlfriends, one of which 0:15:12.280 --> 0:15:13.880 was a thirty year old woman named Brendan, who was 0:15:13.920 --> 0:15:15.760 the mother of a student on the basketball team that 0:15:15.840 --> 0:15:18.720 Kion coached. While all this should point to his guilt, 0:15:18.720 --> 0:15:21.560 it actually ended up helping him because Brenda would serve 0:15:21.600 --> 0:15:24.720 as an alibi for Kian. He was allegedly texting her 0:15:24.960 --> 0:15:27.760 during the entire basketball practice the night of the murder. 0:15:27.800 --> 0:15:30.880 It just appears that he got so lucky by being 0:15:31.000 --> 0:15:33.720 a ladies man that he was able to have an 0:15:33.760 --> 0:15:37.280 appropriate alibi for not being a murderer, right, I mean, 0:15:37.320 --> 0:15:39.360 I think, well we've seen that though, where just because 0:15:39.360 --> 0:15:43.800 he's a cheating, lying jerk doesn't necessarily make him a killer. No, 0:15:43.880 --> 0:15:46.240 but there should be a separate jail for people like that. 0:15:46.880 --> 0:15:49.440 I mean, it's crazy that they were so brazen about 0:15:49.440 --> 0:15:51.200 it that it was like this worst kept secret at 0:15:51.200 --> 0:15:53.920 a middle school. It's not even high school where these are, 0:15:54.000 --> 0:15:56.320 you know, closer to young adults. I mean, these are 0:15:56.360 --> 0:15:59.520 young kids who they were using and their affair, which 0:15:59.560 --> 0:16:03.440 is really uncool. I also wonder if the kid whose 0:16:03.680 --> 0:16:05.800 mom was having an affair with him knew that his 0:16:05.920 --> 0:16:08.160 mom was having an affair with his coach. I mean, 0:16:08.200 --> 0:16:11.320 that's pretty terrible too. Yeah, that's an awful way to 0:16:11.360 --> 0:16:16.240 find out that's why you're benched on varsity. I also 0:16:16.320 --> 0:16:19.520 watching that interview felt really sick to my stomach watching 0:16:19.520 --> 0:16:24.400 Harla just take random cell phone calls during her interrogation 0:16:24.440 --> 0:16:27.520 by the police, and she was so relaxed about it. 0:16:27.920 --> 0:16:29.640 You know, she was like, yeah, I told him, like, 0:16:29.800 --> 0:16:32.040 this isn't what this is like. We're not like, we're 0:16:32.080 --> 0:16:35.680 not love basically, it's just, you know, it's not like that. 0:16:36.640 --> 0:16:39.720 We kind of know that she's lying because while she's 0:16:39.720 --> 0:16:41.360 telling police that they're not that serious, but we know 0:16:41.440 --> 0:16:43.480 that she took him home to her family, so it 0:16:43.560 --> 0:16:45.760 was at least serious enough that she wanted her parents 0:16:45.800 --> 0:16:50.200 to meet this guy, yes, and that they had students 0:16:50.320 --> 0:16:55.840 corroborating in their rooms, so inappropriate. Yeah. But once again, 0:16:55.840 --> 0:16:58.440 at this point in the investigation, all of this just 0:16:58.520 --> 0:17:00.720 points to that they're all kind of jars, not that 0:17:00.800 --> 0:17:05.040 anyone is potentially a killer. Days after the murder, police 0:17:05.040 --> 0:17:06.760 got a break in the case when a man came 0:17:06.800 --> 0:17:08.399 to them with a gun that he thought may have 0:17:08.440 --> 0:17:12.600 been involved with the murder. The man was Patrick Hughes, 0:17:12.840 --> 0:17:17.159 Carlo's cousin. The gun was a five shot revolver, the 0:17:17.240 --> 0:17:21.120 same type police suspected was used to killed Adas. Patrick 0:17:21.200 --> 0:17:23.879 told police that three days prior to the murder, Carla 0:17:23.960 --> 0:17:26.679 came to him in fear. She said she was afraid 0:17:26.680 --> 0:17:28.919 of crime in her neighborhood and wanted a gun for 0:17:28.960 --> 0:17:32.480 her own protection. Her cousin Patrick tried instead to give 0:17:32.480 --> 0:17:36.720 her mace, but Carla insisted on a gun, so he 0:17:36.800 --> 0:17:40.399 loaned her the revolver. He also gave Carla a hunting 0:17:40.480 --> 0:17:44.240 knife just in case. Four days later, Carla returned the 0:17:44.280 --> 0:17:47.520 gun to her cousin, but a few things were missing. 0:17:48.400 --> 0:17:51.320 That hunting knife he loaned her was gone, and also 0:17:51.440 --> 0:17:55.400 missing from the gun where it's five bullets? Patrick asked 0:17:55.400 --> 0:17:58.840 Carlo what happened to the bullets, and Carla responded that 0:17:58.920 --> 0:18:02.160 she had gone target today. Yeah, it was not lost 0:18:02.160 --> 0:18:04.720 on police that Carla had previously told them that she 0:18:04.920 --> 0:18:09.520 never carried or had access to a gun. Following this revelation, 0:18:09.640 --> 0:18:12.800 Carlo was arrested and charged with two capital murder charges, 0:18:13.119 --> 0:18:15.919 one for Avis and the other for her unborn child, 0:18:17.760 --> 0:18:22.720 Here's Leah. Friends and family were shocked that sweet and 0:18:22.800 --> 0:18:26.560 driven Carla could have done this. Yeah, they were chocked 0:18:26.680 --> 0:18:28.479 that the so were the police, and the police were 0:18:28.480 --> 0:18:31.720 talking enough that they served Carlo with a warrant for 0:18:31.720 --> 0:18:34.520 her apartment. When they searched and followed through with that 0:18:34.600 --> 0:18:36.960 search warrant found a pair of shoes that matched the 0:18:37.000 --> 0:18:39.760 shoe print that they had found at Avis's house that 0:18:39.840 --> 0:18:42.600 had kicked in the door. The police were hoping Carlo 0:18:42.640 --> 0:18:46.520 would turn on Kian once they confronted her with this evidence, 0:18:46.640 --> 0:18:49.480 because they thought he was the real killer, but she 0:18:49.560 --> 0:18:53.000 never did. This is just one of those moments where 0:18:53.080 --> 0:18:56.760 part of me is thinking what she manipulated into committing 0:18:56.840 --> 0:18:59.920 the murder by him because he wanted to get out 0:19:00.080 --> 0:19:04.119 of the potential marriage and fatherhood and didn't want to 0:19:04.160 --> 0:19:06.600 have her baby and wanted to keep living this wild 0:19:07.280 --> 0:19:10.840 multiple girlfriend lie for and he maybe he saw an 0:19:10.840 --> 0:19:13.879 opportunity because Carlo was so in love with him, or 0:19:14.720 --> 0:19:18.520 it just odd now having this information, knowing that she 0:19:18.640 --> 0:19:21.800 was so cool, calm and collected in the interrogation office 0:19:22.400 --> 0:19:25.679 and just taking cell phone calls, it just points to 0:19:26.160 --> 0:19:29.320 so much guilt. The ease of which she was lying 0:19:29.480 --> 0:19:32.160 is striking. She lied about the affair, she lied about 0:19:32.200 --> 0:19:34.840 having access to a gun. I wouldn't know she was 0:19:34.920 --> 0:19:37.679 lying had I not known she was lying, I think 0:19:38.520 --> 0:19:41.920 Keian maybe maybe he manipulated her, or maybe he knew 0:19:41.960 --> 0:19:45.280 that she wanted to be his only girlfriend. I don't know, 0:19:45.600 --> 0:19:48.480 but I do think he knew more than than was 0:19:48.560 --> 0:19:51.359 being said. Well, he was with her before and after 0:19:52.080 --> 0:19:54.520 basketball practice, and so I think we can surmise that 0:19:54.560 --> 0:19:57.440 she gave us was probably killed during the basketball practice 0:19:57.800 --> 0:19:59.840 if Carlo was the one to pull the trigger, so 0:20:00.000 --> 0:20:01.560 what his basketball partners an hour and a half, So 0:20:01.600 --> 0:20:03.640 that gives her a pretty small window to go do that. 0:20:03.720 --> 0:20:06.399 And then she saw him right after that, so you 0:20:06.440 --> 0:20:09.080 would think he might notice that she was maybe upset 0:20:09.400 --> 0:20:12.280 or nervous or something like. If he knows her that well, 0:20:12.280 --> 0:20:13.840 that he's having an affair with her, he might notice 0:20:13.840 --> 0:20:17.080 that she just killed someone, don't you think, because we 0:20:17.119 --> 0:20:19.480 know that he went to the garage door instead of 0:20:19.480 --> 0:20:23.400 the front door, Wally walks in. Is there a possibility 0:20:23.480 --> 0:20:27.359 that exists that he was told the information by Carla 0:20:27.400 --> 0:20:31.000 after and they made the plan, and he was like, Okay, 0:20:31.080 --> 0:20:33.600 now that this is done, like, don't worry, no one 0:20:33.640 --> 0:20:36.840 will figure it out. Maybe after they took her in 0:20:37.119 --> 0:20:41.119 and and charged her with two capital murder charges, maybe 0:20:41.119 --> 0:20:44.119 he even said don't worry, like I got your back 0:20:44.760 --> 0:20:47.399 sort of thing or whatever it is, so that she 0:20:47.440 --> 0:20:49.640 would take off the heat. You know. I don't know 0:20:49.760 --> 0:20:56.240 if Carla and Kon corroborated on this or if she 0:20:56.320 --> 0:21:02.440 acted alone, but I feel like he definitely knew. Yeah, 0:21:02.520 --> 0:21:04.679 I think he knew. I don't know to what extent 0:21:04.920 --> 0:21:08.440 his involvement actually is, but I think he knew somehow. 0:21:08.800 --> 0:21:13.040 I mean, guilty is charged. They found the pair of 0:21:13.080 --> 0:21:15.840 shoes in her house that matched to the footprint on 0:21:15.880 --> 0:21:18.920 the door. I mean, the gun is missing five rounds 0:21:18.960 --> 0:21:21.639 of fire and the knife is gone. Oh, she was 0:21:21.720 --> 0:21:27.439 stabbed and shot. On October five and nine, the trial started, 0:21:27.440 --> 0:21:30.240 and immediately prosecutors made it clear they would be seeking 0:21:30.280 --> 0:21:34.159 the death penalty for Carla. It's important to note that 0:21:34.280 --> 0:21:37.880 Kian was never charged with anything in connection to the murder. 0:21:39.280 --> 0:21:42.280 Throughout the trial, the courtroom was described as incredibly tense, 0:21:42.720 --> 0:21:46.359 with people either staunchly believing in Carla's guilt or her innocence. 0:21:49.280 --> 0:21:51.879 The judge even had sheriff deputies sitting at the end 0:21:51.920 --> 0:21:54.680 of each courtroom road to control emotional outbursts from both 0:21:54.760 --> 0:22:00.480 Avis and Carla's families. Despite having once been close friends lovers, 0:22:00.720 --> 0:22:05.080 Kian became a star witness for the prosecution, and perhaps 0:22:05.119 --> 0:22:07.920 the most tense moment of the trial, Keian said his 0:22:07.960 --> 0:22:10.720 affair with Carlo was just physical and meant nothing to 0:22:10.800 --> 0:22:15.600 him all with Carlo watching. Take a listen to some 0:22:15.680 --> 0:22:20.520 of Kian's testimony. Did you kill as planks? No? No? 0:22:22.680 --> 0:22:29.680 Do you feel a responsibility for her days? Yes? Damn 0:22:29.680 --> 0:22:36.160