Speaker 1: Falling in love is the best feeling in the world.
Speaker 1: You see stars, you feel giddy, But sometimes that makes
Speaker 1: you do crazy things, and sometimes that means murder. Just
Speaker 1: because the story starts out with once upon a Times
Speaker 1: doesn't mean it ends happily ever after. Welcome to Crazy
Speaker 1: and Love, a production of Katie Studios and I Heart Radio.
Speaker 1: Today's guests are crime producers Jeff Shane and Chris Graves,
Speaker 1: joined by true crime expert Lea Lamar. Leah is a writer, actress, producer, director,
Speaker 1: stand up comedian, and clubhouse app influencer. She also hosts
Speaker 1: the I Heart Media podcast Real Time Crime with Teddy Mellencamp,
Speaker 1: available now. You can find her on Instagram at Lea Lamar.
Speaker 1: Episode sixteen, The Case of the Love Triangle, The Ladies Man,
Speaker 1: and the Deadly Loan. In the mid two thousands in
Speaker 1: Mississippi lived Avis Banks and Carla Hughes, with so many
Speaker 1: similarities in any other circumstance that two women could have
Speaker 1: been friends. Avis Banks was the middle of three sisters.
Speaker 1: Despite coming from humble beginnings, Avis had dreams of being
Speaker 1: a teacher and owning her own daycare. She was the
Speaker 1: first in her family to go to College, where she
Speaker 1: graduated kum laude. People who knew Avis described her as
Speaker 1: smart and beautiful. Like Avis, Carlo was an incredibly driven
Speaker 1: and gifted student. She was on the Honorable Student Council,
Speaker 1: the cheerleading squad. She played in the school band, and
Speaker 1: participated in beauty pageants where she won multiple crowns. Friends
Speaker 1: described her as happy and bubbly and eternal cheerleader. She
Speaker 1: too had aspirations of becoming a teacher. So how did
Speaker 1: these two women with such bright futures and so much
Speaker 1: in common end up intersecting and tragedy? Enter Kian Pittman.
Speaker 1: Kian was Avis's fiance and Carla's closest friend. Here's Chris
Speaker 1: in two thousand and six, Avis and Kian. You know,
Speaker 1: they're dating and they find out that they're pregnant. Because
Speaker 1: Avis came from strict parents, she was nervous to tell
Speaker 1: them that she was having a baby out of wedlock.
Speaker 1: So the couple got engaged. They were planning to get
Speaker 1: married in January two thou seven, right before the baby
Speaker 1: was due in February. As is seven years old, so
Speaker 1: you know, she's still in her twenties. Keian moved them
Speaker 1: from their small apartment to a house in the suburbs
Speaker 1: because of gout, the expecting family, Yeah, and Chris. While
Speaker 1: all that was happening, in the spring of two thousand
Speaker 1: and six, when she was twenty five, Carla took a
Speaker 1: job at Chestate Middle School as a language artist teacher,
Speaker 1: and this was really her dream job. It was a
Speaker 1: good town, a good position, and she was really excited
Speaker 1: about the job so much though, that she scrambled to
Speaker 1: make the move, wing to an apartment in a bad
Speaker 1: part of town, which she told her family was just
Speaker 1: temporary until she could get a better place, which really
Speaker 1: just speaks to how excited she was to make this move.
Speaker 1: When school started, she did really well, which is a
Speaker 1: surprise to know when she was everyone's favorite teacher. Even
Speaker 1: students who weren't hers loved her the most. And Leah,
Speaker 1: do you know how Carla and Kian ended up intersecting
Speaker 1: Because Carla was new in town and she didn't know
Speaker 1: anyone naturally, she started to form friendships at school, where
Speaker 1: she met cam So at thirty one. Can was a
Speaker 1: math and science teacher. He was also a basketball coach
Speaker 1: at school, and he was super popular amongst the teachers
Speaker 1: as well they spent a lot of time together at school,
Speaker 1: and she would also sometimes visit him at a Text
Speaker 1: Mex restaurant where he tended bar at night. So at
Speaker 1: one point they became so close that Carla brought Can
Speaker 1: home to meet her parents. But by all accounts, it
Speaker 1: was honestly, very strictly platonic, and Carla told people that
Speaker 1: Kalen's fiance Avis, knew all about her and absolutely supported
Speaker 1: their friendship. So this is kind of an interesting start.
Speaker 1: There are a lot of similarities between Carla and Avis,
Speaker 1: Kian's fiancee. Yeah, definitely seems like maybe Kian has a type.
Speaker 1: You know, he likes a driven woman who also works
Speaker 1: in education. It seems to me that, like the idea
Speaker 1: that they were platonic is hard to believe. What do
Speaker 1: you guys think he has a type? Clearly? I think
Speaker 1: that if you're spending that much time with someone and
Speaker 1: you're introducing them to your parents, you're obsessed with them,
Speaker 1: you're in love, but you're hoping this is the one.
Speaker 1: That's just my opin right. I've never introduced someone who's
Speaker 1: not someone I'm romantically interested into my family certainly, and
Speaker 1: I wouldn't drive them home to meet my parents. If
Speaker 1: I'm introducing my family, I'm in love with you. That
Speaker 1: being said, Carla was new in town and was maybe
Speaker 1: desperate to make any sort of connection, whether it be
Speaker 1: male or female, and she just so happened to become
Speaker 1: friends with Kian, and because she didn't know anyone else,
Speaker 1: she really put a lot of weight into that friendship
Speaker 1: or relationship. I think feelings naturally grow if you were
Speaker 1: the opposite sex and you're spending a lot of time together.
Speaker 1: And if it's not feelings that you've had the thought,
Speaker 1: you had the thought of should I date this person,
Speaker 1: should I kiss this person? Should I marry this person
Speaker 1: and spend the rest of my life making them miserable?
Speaker 1: You know, at least I've had those thoughts. It would
Speaker 1: be hard not to. Yeah. On November twenty and six,
Speaker 1: Davis went to her job at the daycare. It was
Speaker 1: an especially busy day with more kids than usual, so
Speaker 1: she had to work two hours late. At five pm,
Speaker 1: she was exhausted. She called Kian on her way home
Speaker 1: and told him she didn't feel like dealing with dinner,
Speaker 1: so he said he would handle it. After teaching at school,
Speaker 1: Kian went to the grocery store and picked up supplies
Speaker 1: for dinner. He had to go back to school for
Speaker 1: basketball practice that evening, so he brought the food to
Speaker 1: Carlos to store it in the fridge. She lived much
Speaker 1: closer to school than Keion did, so it made sense
Speaker 1: to leave it there as opposed to letting it spoil
Speaker 1: in his car. After practice, Kion went back to Carla's
Speaker 1: and they chatted for about forty five minutes. Then he
Speaker 1: headed home at PM. When he pulled into the driveway,
Speaker 1: he opened the garage and as he walked into the house,
Speaker 1: he made an alarming discovery. Laying by the door, covered
Speaker 1: in blood, was his fiancee Avis. Panicked, he tried to
Speaker 1: shake her awake, even kissing her on the mouth, but
Speaker 1: it was all for not. She appeared lifeless. Kian ran
Speaker 1: to his neighbor's house for help. The neighbor called nine.
Speaker 1: When police arrived, they saw the house had been ransacked.
Speaker 1: Police also confirmed what Kian had feared. Avis and her
Speaker 1: unborn child were dead. Someone had shot, stabbed and slashed
Speaker 1: her throat. Here's Chris, that's pretty brutal scene they're describing. There.
Speaker 1: One thing that investigators do I know from covering a
Speaker 1: lot of these cases is especially when a place looks ransacked,
Speaker 1: they look for clues of weather still was actually gone,
Speaker 1: where their valuables are gone, because that's the true marker
Speaker 1: of a robbery. And one thing that caught their attention
Speaker 1: was that it looked ransacked, but nothing of value was
Speaker 1: really gone. The burglars, if they had been ones, left
Speaker 1: a DVD player, TV, the stereo, you know, So that's
Speaker 1: always a clue to them that something else might be
Speaker 1: going on. So they start kind of looking at the
Speaker 1: scene and it looks like a crime of passion. Those
Speaker 1: are usually ones that you know, where it's the person
Speaker 1: has been killed in a very violent manner. Based on
Speaker 1: the evidence at the scene, the police thought that the
Speaker 1: weapon that was used might have been a five shot revolver,
Speaker 1: and then the police were able to find one piece
Speaker 1: of evidence, which was a shoe print on a kicked
Speaker 1: in door. As the fiance and the person to find
Speaker 1: the body, he was immediately brought in for questioning, and
Speaker 1: then during the questioning he actually didn't seem that upset
Speaker 1: the way that you would expect someone who just lost
Speaker 1: their fiance and baby to be to be. He seemed
Speaker 1: apparently emotionless, and he was even angry that he was
Speaker 1: being suspected by the police despite no one even accusing him.
Speaker 1: He was super defensive and he denied having any involvement
Speaker 1: in the murder whatsoever. And that wasn't the only thing
Speaker 1: that made detectives look at Kian. As it turns out,
Speaker 1: the same neighbor who called nm on one told detectives
Speaker 1: that Kian always came home and walked to the front
Speaker 1: door and he never used the garage, but on the
Speaker 1: night of the murder, he did go through the garage,
Speaker 1: which led police to believe that maybe he might have
Speaker 1: known there was a body there and he had to
Speaker 1: go find it in that way. Another thing that struck
Speaker 1: police as weird was that when he found Davis, instead
Speaker 1: of calling m one on his cell phone, he called Carla.
Speaker 1: He told police this was because he was scared and
Speaker 1: panicked and asked her to come over to help him.
Speaker 1: And even if that were true, why not then called
Speaker 1: nm on one After making this called Carla, the police asked,
Speaker 1: He told them that he was worried the call to
Speaker 1: get rerouted, which would slow down police response, so instead
Speaker 1: he ran to a neighbor's banged on the door and
Speaker 1: had them call then one one. If you believe what
Speaker 1: Kiana is saying, he just found his fiance murdered in
Speaker 1: the garage, so he might be in shock. But I
Speaker 1: don't think if I were in shock that my first
Speaker 1: response would be to think about cell phone calls getting
Speaker 1: rerouted to various towers and think that would slow down police.
Speaker 1: I think my first reaction would just be to like
Speaker 1: call no one immediately. I don't know what do you
Speaker 1: guys think? Yeah, I completely agree with that. I think
Speaker 1: if I find a dead body, I'm not calling a friend.
Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure my friends can't help me. If there's
Speaker 1: a dead body that the people I should be calling
Speaker 1: are the hospital, the police, anyone who can come and
Speaker 1: take care of an obvious crime scene. And I think
Speaker 1: the thing that's so interesting is that the staged crime scene,
Speaker 1: the faked break in. You know, I know you guys
Speaker 1: are also true crime experts, So there are so many
Speaker 1: cases where there they find the body and there is
Speaker 1: some sort of stage break in, which is just like, yeah,
Speaker 1: the calls coming from inside the house, we know what's
Speaker 1: going on. This is an inside job. This isn't a
Speaker 1: random person coming in to steal something, and then it
Speaker 1: going sideways and they're like, you know what, I'm actually
Speaker 1: just going to commit murder and not take anything. You know,
Speaker 1: that doesn't even add up. So I don't know why
Speaker 1: they would even bother with faking the burglary, because it
Speaker 1: doesn't unless they steal something. There was one thing that
Speaker 1: struck me odd about the story itself. He said that
Speaker 1: it was easier to put groceries in her apartment. I
Speaker 1: don't know what schools you guys have been in, but
Speaker 1: almost every teacher's lounge, and I'm assuming wherever he coached
Speaker 1: basketball from there's generally refrigerators there, Like, wouldn't it make
Speaker 1: more sense to put it in the refrigerator at school?
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know, I don't know if the
Speaker 1: school has it or not, but that to me, I
Speaker 1: was like, when I read that out, Mike, why are
Speaker 1: you putting it into friends house unless you went there
Speaker 1: to have part of your illicit affair. Well, the other
Speaker 1: thing is that he apparently never went through the garage store.
Speaker 1: He would always be through the front door, so it's
Speaker 1: almost as if he knew he was going to find
Speaker 1: the body. He just went straight forward. And I think
Speaker 1: that that makes him even guiltier in some respect. Is
Speaker 1: it always the boyfriend? Is it always the significant other,
Speaker 1: you know, in the in the case of Scott Peterson
Speaker 1: and Lacy Peterson, yes, in the case of Gabby Patito
Speaker 1: Brian Laundry, yes, is it always the case? No, However,
Speaker 1: they are the first person suspected, right, And if we
Speaker 1: look at it with that lens, I mean, he finds
Speaker 1: her and he claims he's not sure what happened, so
Speaker 1: much so that he kisses her. He tries to wake
Speaker 1: her up, so he thinks she might still be alive.
Speaker 1: He wastes valuable time then calling Carla and not using
Speaker 1: his cellphone to call them on one himself instead of
Speaker 1: running over the neighbor. So at this point he thinks
Speaker 1: she might still be alive, and his first reaction is
Speaker 1: to call Carla. But also, I mean the fact that
Speaker 1: he's kissing a body that is obviously in a pool
Speaker 1: of blood. I mean, if there was stab wounds, if
Speaker 1: it wasn't just gunshot, if there was more going on there,
Speaker 1: you know, like if he had said CPR, that's one thing.
Speaker 1: But yeah, you don't revive someone with a kiss. I
Speaker 1: honestly think the kiss on the lips is more indicative
Speaker 1: of guilts. It's almost like I'm so sorry, you know,
Speaker 1: and it's like just the last time I'll get kissed
Speaker 1: this person sort of thing. Well, I would he even
Speaker 1: tell police that he did that, because it's not like
Speaker 1: they were testing her lips for his d n A.
Speaker 1: I don't even think they could do that. It's just
Speaker 1: a weird detail to even include. Yeah, if he'd gotten
Speaker 1: her blood on his lips or somewhere and he thought
Speaker 1: they'd be testing he maybe he was telling him that
Speaker 1: so they knew why. Right, But he as a teacher,
Speaker 1: and generally, if it's a public school and whatever, I think,
Speaker 1: especially a coach would probably have CPR training. Why because
Speaker 1: students have accidents and if the nerve she's too far away,
Speaker 1: you want the teacher to be able to do something
Speaker 1: about it. Right, So his first instinct is a kiss
Speaker 1: and not Cprso the next day police showed up at
Speaker 1: Chastain Middle School to speak with Carla herself. At school,
Speaker 1: she told detectives about her close friendship with Kian, but
Speaker 1: adamantly denied anything romantic was going on. Wanting more information,
Speaker 1: she was asked to come to the station, which she
Speaker 1: agreed to. It was there that Carla's story changed. While
Speaker 1: she still corroborated Keian's story about the groceries and denied
Speaker 1: having anything to do with Davis's murder, Carla admitted that
Speaker 1: things were in fact physical with Kian. Take a listen
Speaker 1: to some of her interview, being a passionate towards each other.
Speaker 1: But in the most maybe it's just a little kisses.
Speaker 1: But as far as she's life is full of al
Speaker 1: balone romantic lover and said, that's not what it was
Speaker 1: in mind. It wasn't we're going to take a quick break.
Speaker 1: We'll be back in just a moment. It seems to
Speaker 1: me like Kean and Carl are really having an affair.
Speaker 1: And it also seemed to be the worst kept secret.
Speaker 1: At the middle school they worked at, they were using
Speaker 1: the students as messengers, you know, like we used to
Speaker 1: back in the day with notes and passing them. I mean,
Speaker 1: that's pretty terrible to include their students in that. And
Speaker 1: witnesses from school said that they've been seeing canoodling and
Speaker 1: cuddling around campus. People from the bar he on work
Speaker 1: that said they'd witnessed them full on making out. I
Speaker 1: mean Jeff, I don't know what you make of that,
Speaker 1: but it sounds to me like there was probably more
Speaker 1: going on than even she told the police. Yeah. I mean,
Speaker 1: first off, changing your story is an immediate issue, and
Speaker 1: that always points to guilt. That she automatically was happy forthcoming.
Speaker 1: It's a major red flag, I would say, for the investigation.
Speaker 1: But as it turns out, Kian was actually fooling around
Speaker 1: with a lot of different woman. He was known as
Speaker 1: a ladies man who had multiple girlfriends, one of which
Speaker 1: was a thirty year old woman named Brendan, who was
Speaker 1: the mother of a student on the basketball team that
Speaker 1: Kion coached. While all this should point to his guilt,
Speaker 1: it actually ended up helping him because Brenda would serve
Speaker 1: as an alibi for Kian. He was allegedly texting her
Speaker 1: during the entire basketball practice the night of the murder.
Speaker 1: It just appears that he got so lucky by being
Speaker 1: a ladies man that he was able to have an
Speaker 1: appropriate alibi for not being a murderer, right, I mean,
Speaker 1: I think, well we've seen that though, where just because
Speaker 1: he's a cheating, lying jerk doesn't necessarily make him a killer. No,
Speaker 1: but there should be a separate jail for people like that.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's crazy that they were so brazen about
Speaker 1: it that it was like this worst kept secret at
Speaker 1: a middle school. It's not even high school where these are,
Speaker 1: you know, closer to young adults. I mean, these are
Speaker 1: young kids who they were using and their affair, which
Speaker 1: is really uncool. I also wonder if the kid whose
Speaker 1: mom was having an affair with him knew that his
Speaker 1: mom was having an affair with his coach. I mean,
Speaker 1: that's pretty terrible too. Yeah, that's an awful way to
Speaker 1: find out that's why you're benched on varsity. I also
Speaker 1: watching that interview felt really sick to my stomach watching
Speaker 1: Harla just take random cell phone calls during her interrogation
Speaker 1: by the police, and she was so relaxed about it.
Speaker 1: You know, she was like, yeah, I told him, like,
Speaker 1: this isn't what this is like. We're not like, we're
Speaker 1: not love basically, it's just, you know, it's not like that.
Speaker 1: We kind of know that she's lying because while she's
Speaker 1: telling police that they're not that serious, but we know
Speaker 1: that she took him home to her family, so it
Speaker 1: was at least serious enough that she wanted her parents
Speaker 1: to meet this guy, yes, and that they had students
Speaker 1: corroborating in their rooms, so inappropriate. Yeah. But once again,
Speaker 1: at this point in the investigation, all of this just
Speaker 1: points to that they're all kind of jars, not that
Speaker 1: anyone is potentially a killer. Days after the murder, police
Speaker 1: got a break in the case when a man came
Speaker 1: to them with a gun that he thought may have
Speaker 1: been involved with the murder. The man was Patrick Hughes,
Speaker 1: Carlo's cousin. The gun was a five shot revolver, the
Speaker 1: same type police suspected was used to killed Adas. Patrick
Speaker 1: told police that three days prior to the murder, Carla
Speaker 1: came to him in fear. She said she was afraid
Speaker 1: of crime in her neighborhood and wanted a gun for
Speaker 1: her own protection. Her cousin Patrick tried instead to give
Speaker 1: her mace, but Carla insisted on a gun, so he
Speaker 1: loaned her the revolver. He also gave Carla a hunting
Speaker 1: knife just in case. Four days later, Carla returned the
Speaker 1: gun to her cousin, but a few things were missing.
Speaker 1: That hunting knife he loaned her was gone, and also
Speaker 1: missing from the gun where it's five bullets? Patrick asked
Speaker 1: Carlo what happened to the bullets, and Carla responded that
Speaker 1: she had gone target today. Yeah, it was not lost
Speaker 1: on police that Carla had previously told them that she
Speaker 1: never carried or had access to a gun. Following this revelation,
Speaker 1: Carlo was arrested and charged with two capital murder charges,
Speaker 1: one for Avis and the other for her unborn child,
Speaker 1: Here's Leah. Friends and family were shocked that sweet and
Speaker 1: driven Carla could have done this. Yeah, they were chocked
Speaker 1: that the so were the police, and the police were
Speaker 1: talking enough that they served Carlo with a warrant for
Speaker 1: her apartment. When they searched and followed through with that
Speaker 1: search warrant found a pair of shoes that matched the
Speaker 1: shoe print that they had found at Avis's house that
Speaker 1: had kicked in the door. The police were hoping Carlo
Speaker 1: would turn on Kian once they confronted her with this evidence,
Speaker 1: because they thought he was the real killer, but she
Speaker 1: never did. This is just one of those moments where
Speaker 1: part of me is thinking what she manipulated into committing
Speaker 1: the murder by him because he wanted to get out
Speaker 1: of the potential marriage and fatherhood and didn't want to
Speaker 1: have her baby and wanted to keep living this wild
Speaker 1: multiple girlfriend lie for and he maybe he saw an
Speaker 1: opportunity because Carlo was so in love with him, or
Speaker 1: it just odd now having this information, knowing that she
Speaker 1: was so cool, calm and collected in the interrogation office
Speaker 1: and just taking cell phone calls, it just points to
Speaker 1: so much guilt. The ease of which she was lying
Speaker 1: is striking. She lied about the affair, she lied about
Speaker 1: having access to a gun. I wouldn't know she was
Speaker 1: lying had I not known she was lying, I think
Speaker 1: Keian maybe maybe he manipulated her, or maybe he knew
Speaker 1: that she wanted to be his only girlfriend. I don't know,
Speaker 1: but I do think he knew more than than was
Speaker 1: being said. Well, he was with her before and after
Speaker 1: basketball practice, and so I think we can surmise that
Speaker 1: she gave us was probably killed during the basketball practice
Speaker 1: if Carlo was the one to pull the trigger, so
Speaker 1: what his basketball partners an hour and a half, So
Speaker 1: that gives her a pretty small window to go do that.
Speaker 1: And then she saw him right after that, so you
Speaker 1: would think he might notice that she was maybe upset
Speaker 1: or nervous or something like. If he knows her that well,
Speaker 1: that he's having an affair with her, he might notice
Speaker 1: that she just killed someone, don't you think, because we
Speaker 1: know that he went to the garage door instead of
Speaker 1: the front door, Wally walks in. Is there a possibility
Speaker 1: that exists that he was told the information by Carla
Speaker 1: after and they made the plan, and he was like, Okay,
Speaker 1: now that this is done, like, don't worry, no one
Speaker 1: will figure it out. Maybe after they took her in
Speaker 1: and and charged her with two capital murder charges, maybe
Speaker 1: he even said don't worry, like I got your back
Speaker 1: sort of thing or whatever it is, so that she
Speaker 1: would take off the heat. You know. I don't know
Speaker 1: if Carla and Kon corroborated on this or if she
Speaker 1: acted alone, but I feel like he definitely knew. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think he knew. I don't know to what extent
Speaker 1: his involvement actually is, but I think he knew somehow.
Speaker 1: I mean, guilty is charged. They found the pair of
Speaker 1: shoes in her house that matched to the footprint on
Speaker 1: the door. I mean, the gun is missing five rounds
Speaker 1: of fire and the knife is gone. Oh, she was
Speaker 1: stabbed and shot. On October five and nine, the trial started,
Speaker 1: and immediately prosecutors made it clear they would be seeking
Speaker 1: the death penalty for Carla. It's important to note that
Speaker 1: Kian was never charged with anything in connection to the murder.
Speaker 1: Throughout the trial, the courtroom was described as incredibly tense,
Speaker 1: with people either staunchly believing in Carla's guilt or her innocence.
Speaker 1: The judge even had sheriff deputies sitting at the end
Speaker 1: of each courtroom road to control emotional outbursts from both
Speaker 1: Avis and Carla's families. Despite having once been close friends lovers,
Speaker 1: Kian became a star witness for the prosecution, and perhaps
Speaker 1: the most tense moment of the trial, Keian said his
Speaker 1: affair with Carlo was just physical and meant nothing to
Speaker 1: him all with Carlo watching. Take a listen to some
Speaker 1: of Kian's testimony. Did you kill as planks? No? No?
Speaker 1: Do you feel a responsibility for her days? Yes? Damn
Speaker 1: my head. If I wouldn't have staying faithful to who
Speaker 1: I watched, women h fine and thinking poorly, making bad choices,
Speaker 1: what made a bad choice to sleep around and flare
Speaker 1: with other women's sham levins would have never taken place
Speaker 1: from oh Man, I don't know if I would be
Speaker 1: able to just sit there and watch that as the
Speaker 1: person who is probably an actual love of them, you know,
Speaker 1: the prosecution between a Carlo as a jealous and scheming mistress.
Speaker 1: He said that they were able to show her cell
Speaker 1: phone records placing her within quaite five miles of Avis's
Speaker 1: home the night of the murder between five thirty to six.
Speaker 1: The cellphone records show that Fund was where he said
Speaker 1: he had been that night, between the school, the grocery store,
Speaker 1: of basketball practice, and Carlo's perfect On the other side,
Speaker 1: the defense pointed the finger at Kian, calling him a
Speaker 1: womanizer who didn't want to have the baby that APIs
Speaker 1: was having. He had the motive they were saying the
Speaker 1: prosecution was saying, and the opportunity to kill his fiancee.
Speaker 1: The defense pointed out that his house was close enough
Speaker 1: to the school he could have killed Avis before practice
Speaker 1: and still made it back without raising any concern. He
Speaker 1: also had been at Carlo's house. He had access to
Speaker 1: that gun and those shoes because he'd been at Carlo's house.
Speaker 1: He wore the same size as Carlo, which is a
Speaker 1: woman's tin, and could have taken her shoes to Framer.
Speaker 1: The defense also brought up that it was well known
Speaker 1: that Kean had borrowed Carlo's shoes before in the past.
Speaker 1: Let's stop here for another quick break. So there were
Speaker 1: some things that neither the defense nor the prosecution could
Speaker 1: really explain. One of them was that Carla never had
Speaker 1: any gunpowder on her hands, but Kean did. So that
Speaker 1: is weird and it definitely points the finger at Keion.
Speaker 1: But the prosecution had an expert testified that the gun
Speaker 1: from Carlo's cousin was the murder weapon. We seemingly know
Speaker 1: for sure that the gun Carla got from her cousin
Speaker 1: was used to kill a Vis. The question is who
Speaker 1: was the one who fired it. I think the other
Speaker 1: thing that's interesting is is it possible he loaded the guy?
Speaker 1: Is it Paul Stable that he actually is? Yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean it seems to me, you know, now, in our culture,
Speaker 1: look at how you know, woman were kind of realizing
Speaker 1: how women are treated. This idea that she's painted as
Speaker 1: like kind of like the jealous, scheming mitch stress who
Speaker 1: would do anything to get her man like that seems
Speaker 1: to me a little unfair to paint her in that way. Obviously,
Speaker 1: she was involved potentially in some way in this murder.
Speaker 1: Could have been him, could have been he could have
Speaker 1: been the one to ask her to get the weapons,
Speaker 1: because it does frame her complete. And I think it's
Speaker 1: so interesting that he had gunpowder on his hands she
Speaker 1: never did, and that it's something no one could explain.
Speaker 1: Why didn't they figure out how to explain it? Why
Speaker 1: is that something that was just somehow overlooked. If you
Speaker 1: look at Kian and he has a history of being
Speaker 1: having several girlfriends, which to me says he knows how
Speaker 1: to manipulate people. He also knows how to we've a
Speaker 1: worry or a lie around where he's been, or who
Speaker 1: he's been with, or who that other person is if
Speaker 1: somebody runs into them, or how to keep things separate.
Speaker 1: And he knows how to figure out an alibi because
Speaker 1: cheaters need alibis for the people that are accusing them
Speaker 1: of cheating. Right, not the cops. I'm talking about all
Speaker 1: the other women they're they're messing around with. Right. It's
Speaker 1: interesting because if you really like someone and they're going
Speaker 1: away or bread coming you, or not going enough attention,
Speaker 1: you might do whatever they say just so that they stay,
Speaker 1: or that you like them, or you get desperate or
Speaker 1: whatever it is, and maybe this is a point of desperation.
Speaker 1: But on the other hand, it also seems clear that
Speaker 1: this could have been a complete set up and it
Speaker 1: was his way of getting out of all of the relationships. Actually,
Speaker 1: both Avis and Carla seemed very bright young women, as
Speaker 1: we learned, and you know, for Carla to get herself
Speaker 1: into that situation and she's guilty of at least knowing
Speaker 1: about it and helping, if not committing, it's just so tragic.
Speaker 1: You know, no one deserves this kind of death. I
Speaker 1: really can't decide in my mind what I think actually happened.
Speaker 1: After just eight hours of deliberation, the jury found Carla
Speaker 1: guilty on accounts. Instead of the death penalty, Carlo was
Speaker 1: handed to life sentences. When the verdict was read, she collapsed,
Speaker 1: crying hysterically. Following the trial, Keian left Mississippi and later married.
Speaker 1: Carla has since been denied a new trial. Shameless plug.
Speaker 1: If you're enjoying Crazy and Love, leave us a review
Speaker 1: to view our recent documentary Murdered Missing in Montana. You'll
Speaker 1: find it streaming now on Peacock. Follow us on Instagram
Speaker 1: at Katie Underscore Studios. Crazy and Love is produced by
Speaker 1: Stephanie Lydecker, Jeff Shane, Chris Grieves and me Courtney Armstrong.
Speaker 1: Editing and sound designed by Jeff ba. Crazy in Love
Speaker 1: is a production of I Heart Radio and Katie Studios.
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from I heart Radio, visit the i
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Speaker 1: your favorite shows. Stay safe, lovers,