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Speaker 1: Vanessa gim Goes missing within fort Hood. Now we know

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Speaker 1: the beautiful young twenty year old private first class was

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Speaker 1: brutally murdered. But what now and what of the woman

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Speaker 1: who is now behind bars as a conspirator, a married

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Speaker 1: girlfriend of Vanessa's killer that apparently ran to the scene

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Speaker 1: in order to stand around a bonfire, dismember Vanessa's body

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Speaker 1: and burn the body parts. What about Cecily Aguilar Also

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Speaker 1: what about the young man Gregory Wheedled Morales whose body

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Speaker 1: was found near Vanessa's What about that? Joining me today

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Speaker 1: is a mother Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. I'm Nancy Grace.

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Speaker 1: This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us.

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Speaker 1: First of all, take a listen to this. According to

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Speaker 1: the criminal complaints against Cecily Aguilad Army investigators were notified

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Speaker 1: on April twenty third that Vanessa again was reported missing

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Speaker 1: by her unit. A search of Vanessa's phone records show

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Speaker 1: the last person she texted with specialist Aaron Robinson. Robinson

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Speaker 1: told investigators on April twenty second that he and Vanessa

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Speaker 1: worked together briefly. On April twenty eighth, Robinson was interviewed

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Speaker 1: by Army investigators about what he did the day Vanessa vanished.

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Speaker 1: He said after work he left for hood to go

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Speaker 1: home to his girlfriend, Cecily Aguilad. He told investigators the

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Speaker 1: one time he left his home was around six thirty

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Speaker 1: PM to return to the post to sign up for training.

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Speaker 1: A few weeks later, on May eighteenth, two witnesses stated

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Speaker 1: seeing Robinson on April twenty second load a heavy, tough

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Speaker 1: box with wheels into his car. The next day, Robinson

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Speaker 1: let investigators search his phone record show Robinson called his

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Speaker 1: girlfriend multiple times on the night Vanessa disappeared, and as

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Speaker 1: late as three thirty in the morning the next day. Guys,

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Speaker 1: you are hearing our Francy Khou eleven. That was David

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Speaker 1: Gonzalez joining me an all start panel. Troy Slayton, criminal

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Speaker 1: defense attorney, joining me out of LA renowned psychoanalyst joining

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Speaker 1: me out of Beverly Hills. Doctor Bethany Marshall at Bethany

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Speaker 1: marshall dot com. Cheryl McCullum, director of the Cold Case

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Speaker 1: Research Institute, and crime scene expert, doctor Chris Sperry, former

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Speaker 1: Chief medical Examiner for the entire State of Georgia. Kr

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Speaker 1: Kate j R. HTV news anchor Vincent Hill and special guest,

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Speaker 1: the mother of Gregory Wheedle, Morales Kim Wheedle. First to you,

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Speaker 1: Vincent Hill, joining me, what can you tell me about

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Speaker 1: the woman behind the man in this case, the woman

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Speaker 1: standing behind the killer Aaron Robinson. Her name Chrissy Aguilera.

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Speaker 1: What do we know about her? Well, Nancy, we know

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Speaker 1: she was married to another Forthheid soldier, which is a

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Speaker 1: red flag number one. She's also dating another soldier, which

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Speaker 1: is a pretty common thing on army basis, and we

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Speaker 1: do know it. Wait, wait, Vincent, are you saying it's

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Speaker 1: common for a woman married to a soldier to be

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Speaker 1: dating another soldier, because I've never heard that before. Well, Nancy,

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Speaker 1: me being a former soldier myself and growing up military,

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Speaker 1: that is a very common thing for soldiers to be

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Speaker 1: dating other soldiers, wives and husbands and things of that

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Speaker 1: nature goes on all the time. Especially. Isn't that a

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Speaker 1: violation of army regulations? It is a direct violation of

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Speaker 1: army violation or regulations, and I think that is what

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Speaker 1: led to the tragic that of Vanessa. That's part of

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Speaker 1: what led to it. So let me understand this. She,

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Speaker 1: Chrissy Aguilera, is Cecily Aguilera is married to another army,

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Speaker 1: a member of the army. She's dating Aaron Robinson, the

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Speaker 1: alleged killer in this case. So what else do we

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Speaker 1: know about her other than she's cheating. Well, Nancy, we

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Speaker 1: know on her social media she had this image of

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Speaker 1: a bad girl, if you will. She had several pictures

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Speaker 1: of her with handguns, her with rifles, and some of

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Speaker 1: the things that she was saying on social media. She

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Speaker 1: was painting herself as this bad chick if you will. Well,

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Speaker 1: isn't it true that online she's selling feet pictures? Absolutely, Nancy,

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Speaker 1: and that is very disturbing in itself. I mean, she's

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Speaker 1: into this fetish fantasy world. So I think all the

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Speaker 1: red flags of who she actually is was portrayed on

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Speaker 1: her social media. Joining me the perfect person to discuss

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Speaker 1: her psyche, doctor Bethany Marshall, is joining us out of

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Speaker 1: la doctor Bethany Marshall on her social media, and I've

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Speaker 1: studied it very, very carefully ever since her name first emerged.

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Speaker 1: I have this image of Cecily Aguilera standing over a bonfire,

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Speaker 1: a bonfire so high it actually burned the limbs of

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Speaker 1: the trees over the bonfire where they have dismembered Vanessa's

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Speaker 1: body and they're burning the body parts. I guess that's

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Speaker 1: the order it went, or else they tried to burn her,

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Speaker 1: couldn't and then dismembered her, buried her body. But it's beautiful,

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Speaker 1: young private first class. Apparently Aaron Robinson wasn't happy just

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Speaker 1: dating a married woman. He had been hitting on Vanessa

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Speaker 1: and sexually harassing her as well. The army did nothing

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Speaker 1: about that. But I can imagine these two kind of

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Speaker 1: like the witches in Macbeth double double toil and trouble,

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Speaker 1: cackling away over the fire as it burned Vanessa's remains.

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Speaker 1: This is who I'm talking about. Who in the hey

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Speaker 1: would go along with that. Your boyfriend calls and goes, hey, babe,

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Speaker 1: blah blah blah, come help me, and you go help him.

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Speaker 1: See edgar Laar is a woman who is in love

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Speaker 1: with one person herself. That's her profile. If you boil

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Speaker 1: it down to that, you understand her. Psyche seek about

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Speaker 1: the foot fetish photos. Women do not have foot fetishes.

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Speaker 1: Men do. So she what what what? What? Bethany? Excuse me,

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Speaker 1: doctor Bethany, Doctor Bethany. I know in your world, foot

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Speaker 1: fetishes are normal. You probably hear about it all day long.

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Speaker 1: In fact, I've seen your feet and they're perfectly captain.

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Speaker 1: I wonder why. But that's a whole nother can worms, Bethany,

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Speaker 1: For those novices to your world, could you explain what

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Speaker 1: is a foot fetish? I remember covering a case where

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Speaker 1: I guess the woman went missing or was dead. Anyway,

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Speaker 1: I dug up videos of her. She catered to men

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Speaker 1: with a foot fetish, and she would have her a

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Speaker 1: perfect pedicure, high heels, really high heels, and she would

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Speaker 1: stomp bugs and frogs and tiny animals to death, and

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Speaker 1: on video, and that was what she did. So foot fetishes.

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Speaker 1: Let me just say, there's a very broad spectrum a

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Speaker 1: foot fetishes. So let's get you to explain that, since

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Speaker 1: that's your expertise, not mine yours. Okay. A fetish is

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Speaker 1: when an individual can only achieve orchasm through a part

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Speaker 1: of a human being rather than the whole human being, right,

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Speaker 1: anute or through an Let me just take that in,

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Speaker 1: Cheryl McCollum, are you listening, I'm listening. Okay, go ahead.

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Speaker 1: You can only a chain sexual happiness through a body part,

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Speaker 1: not a whole body. Yes, a body part or an

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Speaker 1: object a whip, a chain, a shoe, a foot that

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Speaker 1: the person's sexual Bethany, Bethany, I'm gonna need something a

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Speaker 1: little stronger than Irish breakfast tea with milk. Okay, so

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Speaker 1: just run out and get it. Go ahead, Bethany, I

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Speaker 1: may need coffee for them. And the reason for that

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Speaker 1: is that the individual who has the fetish, who has

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Speaker 1: the sexualized, fetishized interest in an object or a body

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Speaker 1: part in this case, Cecily Aguilar's feat is that they

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Speaker 1: cannot relate to the whole person. See, a foot is

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Speaker 1: never going to control you, talk back to you, put

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Speaker 1: you down, to mean you, or diminish you. It's just

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Speaker 1: offput Crime stories with Nancy Grace, we're talking about Cecily Aguilar, who,

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Speaker 1: for god knows why, because I sure don't. She goes

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Speaker 1: along with Aaron Robinson after he murders Vanessa. He can't

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Speaker 1: figure out how to get rid of her body. He

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Speaker 1: calls in this woman, Cecily Aguilar, and I hope you're

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Speaker 1: listening local prosecutors, because if you give this woman a

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Speaker 1: cheap deal, I'm gonna be all over you like a

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Speaker 1: cheap suit. You can count on that don't let it

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Speaker 1: all die down for a couple of months and then

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Speaker 1: take some secret sweetheart deal in. Oh, but we're talking

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Speaker 1: to doctor Bethany Marshall because this woman and tried to

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Speaker 1: sell foot fetish photos online that we know. I don't

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Speaker 1: know what else she did. But back to you, Bethany,

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Speaker 1: I think you were saying something about the foot can't

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Speaker 1: talk back. The foot cannot talk back. So individuals who

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Speaker 1: have a foot fetish, they boil the entire tire sexual

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Speaker 1: interest in another person down to just the foot. They

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Speaker 1: cannot relate to the whole person as an individual with

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Speaker 1: thoughts and feelings and motivations of their own. They can't

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Speaker 1: make love to a person. They can't achieve arousal by

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Speaker 1: being with a person. They can only achieve arousal through

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Speaker 1: a foot. So when you think of Cecily Aguilar, she's

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Speaker 1: praying on these types of individuals with foot fetishes. She's

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Speaker 1: catering to them, she's preying on them. She's taking pictures

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Speaker 1: of her feet, perhaps other people's feet, and disseminating them.

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Speaker 1: So this is the profile of the person who hacked

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Speaker 1: up Vanessa Gim's body. Also on her Facebook posts, it's

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Speaker 1: as if She's in love with herself, nobody else, any

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Speaker 1: girl she writes, any girl, complete innocence. But her demons

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Speaker 1: are what drove me wild. Her secrets, her pain, she

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Speaker 1: masks by laughter, her darkness she tries so hard to hide.

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Speaker 1: That's what made me fall for her. It's as if

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Speaker 1: she's writing a love poem to herself. This is a

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Speaker 1: person who all of her love energy is directed back

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Speaker 1: against the self. She'll do anything to survive, even if

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Speaker 1: it means chopping up another person's body. Anything to survive.

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Speaker 1: How about go out and get a job or two

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Speaker 1: or three like I have. I don't get it. Why

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Speaker 1: do you have to sell photos? I mean, foot fetish

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Speaker 1: is a wide range. It could be you could be

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Speaker 1: catering to some guy, and as you said, it is

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Speaker 1: typically a male that has a foot fetish. They go

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Speaker 1: in and they steal ladies shoes, they buy ladies shoes,

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Speaker 1: they love lady's feet. Well, it goes on and on.

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Speaker 1: An there's a big difference in loving ladies feet and

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Speaker 1: watching videos of man pedicured fate stomping rabbits dead. Well,

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Speaker 1: that's absolutely right, because you have more vulnerable characters who

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Speaker 1: can only relate to a foot, not to the whole person.

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Speaker 1: These are men who don't even know how to have

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Speaker 1: a relationship. Their whole sexual fantasy life is around the foot,

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Speaker 1: a very narrow range of interests. And then you have

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Speaker 1: men who are quite sadistic, like you said, stomping on

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Speaker 1: you know, rabbits, spider snakes, things like that. And you

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Speaker 1: think about that if if she has this lurid interest

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Speaker 1: in men who are sadistic, who are cruel, who are

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Speaker 1: mean that this says something about her attachment systems too,

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Speaker 1: And it says something about how she attached to Robinson,

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Speaker 1: because there was a great deal of cruel in their

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Speaker 1: relationship towards me in right, you know, he struck her

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Speaker 1: in the head with a hammer. They dismembered the body.

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Speaker 1: Not only did they bury it in three different different

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Speaker 1: burial sites, but then they came back four days later

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Speaker 1: to excavate the remains and then try to dismember her further.

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Speaker 1: So it makes you begin to think about cecily A,

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Speaker 1: her own sadism, her own fetishes, her own lurid interest.

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Speaker 1: I think in some ways, because she had such a

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Speaker 1: huge cash of guns and she was in love with guns.

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Speaker 1: This is a woman that loved herself, which she also

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Speaker 1: loved violence. She had in a way, she had her

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Speaker 1: own fetishized interest in gore, violence, dismemberment. And it may

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Speaker 1: have been latent until this killing came around, and then

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Speaker 1: it just blossomed under these circumstances. You know, you're saying

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Speaker 1: something now that I believe relates to this case. It

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Speaker 1: may never come into a court of law, but her

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Speaker 1: Cecily Aguilar's connection to violent, hateful or mean men would

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Speaker 1: come into play here with Aaron Robinson, Vanessa games killer.

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Speaker 1: I want you're earlier her from KHOU eleven reporter David Gonzalez.

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Speaker 1: Now take a listen to KHOU eleven Stephanie Whitfield. Vanessa

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Speaker 1: Gean's family has tirelessly looked for her since she was

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Speaker 1: last seen in late April. Now they know she's gone,

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Speaker 1: but they're still searching for justice. Army officials say specialist

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Speaker 1: Aaron Robinson killed the twenty year old soldier on base

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Speaker 1: using a hammer. Court record show his girlfriend Cecily Aguilar

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Speaker 1: helped get rid of the body. Robinson took his own

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Speaker 1: life last week, leaving Aguilar as the only living suspect.

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Speaker 1: Family members just want to know why this happened. Honestly,

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Speaker 1: I still don't understand. I knew how a strong feeling

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Speaker 1: that those sexual harassment hadn't ought to do with them.

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Speaker 1: Army officials say they've found no evidence of harassment, but

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Speaker 1: the investigation is still open. In the meantime, the Guienne

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Speaker 1: family is planning a funeral. They say the murals honoring

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Speaker 1: Vanessa and Kaleen and Houston give them strength to keep

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Speaker 1: searching for the truth. Joining me an all Star panel,

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Speaker 1: let me go back to Vincent Hill kJ RHTV. Vincent,

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Speaker 1: is it true that this woman has a child? It

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Speaker 1: is true, Nancy, But I do want to touch on

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Speaker 1: something I think it's very important here where this murder occurred. Again,

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Speaker 1: speaking as someone that was in the military, I hate

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Speaker 1: to use this term. It was the perfect place for

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Speaker 1: it because an armory, fortified, concrete walls, steel door, you

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Speaker 1: close that door, those screens that Vanessa was doing, no

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Speaker 1: one could have heard those screens fancy. So unfortunately where

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Speaker 1: she was killed, what's the perfect for him to do it?

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Speaker 1: And it's tragic that it happened, But I think he

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Speaker 1: knew what he was going to do when she walked

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Speaker 1: in those stores, So you believe Cecily Aguilar has a child. Correct,

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Speaker 1: I believe so, Nancy to you, Cheryl McCallum, Director Cold

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Speaker 1: Case Research Institute. In my mind, that shines another light

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Speaker 1: on the psyche of this woman who helped tear apart

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Speaker 1: Vanessa Ghiam's body and burn it and then bury it

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Speaker 1: in wet cement. Because you know, just here's an example, Cheryl.

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Speaker 1: For years and years and years, I would die all

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Speaker 1: over the world. I gone to places and people say,

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Speaker 1: how is it, and I'm like, I don't know. I

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Speaker 1: was underwater the whole time. But once I had the twins,

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Speaker 1: that's over. I'm not going to do anything to jeopardize

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Speaker 1: their life. And that includes growing up with a mother.

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Speaker 1: Forget it, No, I quit cursing. You know that that hurts.

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Speaker 1: But so many those are just mild, anecdotal examples of

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Speaker 1: how your life changes when you have a child. Why

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Speaker 1: in the hate would she go along with this if

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Speaker 1: she has a child, Nancy, this is going to be

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Speaker 1: like one of our old time late night conversations. So

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Speaker 1: just stay with me a second. This woman, Marshall talk

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Speaker 1: about foot fetishes more than I wanted to know, but

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Speaker 1: I want to hear what you have to say this

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Speaker 1: woman is a paradox. So as a criminologist, tattoos means

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Speaker 1: something to me, what people select, the way they choose

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Speaker 1: to put it on their body, where they choose to

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Speaker 1: put it. She literally has a tattoo on her arm

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Speaker 1: that is Corinthians twelve nine, which is My grace is

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Speaker 1: sufficient for you. My power is made perfect in weakness.

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Speaker 1: That's a paradox. You can't have real power without real weakness.

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Speaker 1: You can't see just how awesome God is without being pitiful. Okay,

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Speaker 1: she's gonna pose with guns and smoking weeds and talking

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Speaker 1: about fetishes and talk about she's a writer or die

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Speaker 1: right at the same time, Dancy, at the exact same time.

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Speaker 1: She's got Bible verses. She's a wife, she's a mother,

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Speaker 1: She supports the army. She will sit there and tell

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Speaker 1: you she's a bad bitch. But when it came down

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Speaker 1: to it, you ain't none but a snitch. In about

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Speaker 1: five minutes, you help the army find your man that

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Speaker 1: you were supposedly trying to help by hacking this girl up.

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Speaker 1: She's a paradoxal devil. Well, she is the devil. And

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Speaker 1: what concerns me she's not charged with murder crime stories

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Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace. We're talking about not only Vanessa Ghim

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Speaker 1: gorgeous on the inside in the outside, young private first

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Speaker 1: class at Fort Hood who was murdered, her body hacked

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Speaker 1: apart with a machete by this woman along with her

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Speaker 1: lover Aaron Robinson. Then they burn the body and hide it.

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Speaker 1: She has a child born in twenty fourteen. The child's

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Speaker 1: about six years old. We think it's a son. How

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Speaker 1: could you risk your child's life by going along with

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Speaker 1: this Aaron Robinson in his murderous scheme? How who is

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Speaker 1: this woman? Cecily Aguilare. We know she's a mom covered

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Speaker 1: in tattoos. We know online she wants to sugar daddy.

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Speaker 1: We know she's in a recent breakup. We know she's

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Speaker 1: dating Aaron Robinson. We think she's still married or estranged

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Speaker 1: to another officer. What else do we know about her?

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Speaker 1: Troice Layton, she's not charged with murder, so Troice Layton,

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Speaker 1: you're the defense attorney. I mean that with in a loving,

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Speaker 1: caring way. But what is she looking at behind bars

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Speaker 1: right now? And yes, I know she gave a statement

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Speaker 1: and rat it out Aaron Robinson, But I don't know

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Speaker 1: that there was a deal attached to that. I think

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Speaker 1: she just went met and just blurted it out while

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Speaker 1: she's facing up to twenty years. Good, that's not enough

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Speaker 1: in prison. But what you may call snitching, what you

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Speaker 1: may call just blurting out. She helped give the family closure.

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Speaker 1: She's the one that led authorities to the body, to

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Speaker 1: the crime scenes. She's the one who gave investigators an

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Speaker 1: entire roadmap about what happened. And maybe, just maybe she

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Speaker 1: was in fear for her life after she saw that

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Speaker 1: her boyfriend was capable of murder. Her boyfriend calls her

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Speaker 1: up in a panic, has a body that is needed

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Speaker 1: to be disposed of. She feels that she may be

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Speaker 1: implicated with this murderer and she could be the next

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Speaker 1: one that winds up dead. So yeah, maybe she didn't

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Speaker 1: help dispose of the body. But when push came to

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Speaker 1: shove and authorities needed to find out what happened in

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Speaker 1: this case, she led them, are you buying any of that,

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Speaker 1: Cheryl McCollum, what choice? Layton just said, any of it

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Speaker 1: at all? Because you know their cell phone pings, their

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Speaker 1: cell phone pings placed them there. Anything. They don't need her.

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Speaker 1: She's just icing on the cake. I would not cut

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Speaker 1: her a deal, so help me deal, Lord in Heaven.

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Speaker 1: I would take her down for every day I could

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Speaker 1: what she stayed with that man in his house, in

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Speaker 1: his bed four months. She didn't talk till they found her.

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Speaker 1: They found her, they already knew she was connected. Yeah, there,

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Speaker 1: you got a choice, Layton. I'm gonna give you a

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Speaker 1: moment to digest what Cheryl McCollum just said. Because I

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Speaker 1: know you, Slayton, you will come up with another argument.

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Speaker 1: Joining me right now, Doctor Chris Sperry, former Chief Medical

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Speaker 1: exam State of Georgia. You know, doctor Sperry, could you

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Speaker 1: outline exactly what this woman, this foot fetish, married mom

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Speaker 1: dating another guy, goes along with dismembering a body with

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Speaker 1: a machete. How hard is it to do that, doctor Sperry.

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Speaker 1: It's it's surprisingly easy. It's officially with a machete that

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Speaker 1: has some weight, they can barely cut a part of chicken. Well,

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Speaker 1: but you don't you just try it with it? What? Yeah, Well,

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Speaker 1: there's a difference between using a boning knife and using

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Speaker 1: a machete too. Did you say a bowie knife? No,

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Speaker 1: I don't have one of those in the kitchen knife,

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Speaker 1: a regular knife, Okay, go ahead, Yeah, no, but it's

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Speaker 1: it would be surprisingly easy with with something like a

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Speaker 1: machete that's heavy, because it would be a series of

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Speaker 1: chopping wounds repeatedly. Now something certain things like bones, especially

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Speaker 1: the long bones of the legs, would be very difficult,

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Speaker 1: just because it's hard to break those bones and it

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Speaker 1: would take repeated blows. But it's a strong man. Is

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Speaker 1: it difficult or is it easy? I don't know how

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Speaker 1: you can separate bones from a human body and that

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Speaker 1: be easy. Well, it's it's with something heavy. If if

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Speaker 1: you're not using a machete or an axe and you're

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Speaker 1: just using knives, the only way to separate the bones

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Speaker 1: is to cut through joints, and that takes some skill

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Speaker 1: and it's more time consuming as well, because the various

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Speaker 1: joints are held together pretty well. But with a machete,

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Speaker 1: it's it's not it's really fairly simple. Actually maybe simple

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Speaker 1: for you. But yeah, well I've seen a number of

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Speaker 1: bodies that were, you know, we're chopped up with machetes

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Speaker 1: and it's surprisingly it's not too difficult. Yeah, that is

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Speaker 1: a surprise for me because to the thought of lifting

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Speaker 1: machete and hacking somebody's dead body apart. I mean even

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Speaker 1: the psychological aspect, Doctor Bethany Marshall, of setting fire to

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Speaker 1: a body, I find that difficult because bodies are very hard.

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Speaker 1: Hold on, Doctor Sperry, how hard is it to burn

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Speaker 1: a body? Yeah, actually it's very hard. It's very very

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Speaker 1: difficult to burn a body to the point where there's

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Speaker 1: just nothing left that allows, you know, the ability for recognition.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you're really talking about a very very very

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Speaker 1: hot fire burning for hours in order to completely aciderate

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Speaker 1: a body. So it's unless someone sets out to do

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Speaker 1: something like that that you know, to actually like a

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Speaker 1: cremation pire that they have in India, the Ganges River

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Speaker 1: that you know, those have lots of lots of big

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Speaker 1: piles of wood that are carefully stacked and the are

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Speaker 1: constructed to burn hot and burn for a long time. Otherwise,

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Speaker 1: you know, it's it's very it's very you just cannot

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Speaker 1: really incinerate a body completely, you know. I'm asking doctor

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Speaker 1: Sperry to follow up with doctor Bethany the mental, the

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Speaker 1: frame of mind, the course of conduct that went into

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Speaker 1: what they did to this innocent girl, Vanessa Ken standing

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Speaker 1: by while they set fire to her body, dismember her

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Speaker 1: with a machete. I mean, the thought of putting a

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Speaker 1: match to human skin. It's just it's hard for me

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Speaker 1: to even fathom how this woman, Cecily Aguilar, who by

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Speaker 1: the way, has a theF case in Bell County from

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Speaker 1: December twenty nineteen, so she has had brushes with the law,

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Speaker 1: as it's euphemistically called. How do you what frame of

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Speaker 1: mind would it take to set someone's body on fire? Nancy,

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Speaker 1: have you ever had a friend or an acquaintance of

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Speaker 1: female whose husband or boyfriend has an affair and then

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Speaker 1: she directs all the hatred towards the woman with whom

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Speaker 1: he had the affair, rather than holding her own self accountable. Yes, okay,

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Speaker 1: So think about that mindset and multiply it by a thousand.

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Speaker 1: Think of Cecily and Aaron Robinson and think about something

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Speaker 1: more sinister complex a broad array of bad behaviors on

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Speaker 1: both of their parts. She sends out pictures of foot fetishes,

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Speaker 1: she tries to make money off of that. She's having

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Speaker 1: an affair. She's psychologically abandoning her six year old. She

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Speaker 1: has had some other petty theft problems, struggling working at

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Speaker 1: a gas stay. He's leering at Vanessa game while she's

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Speaker 1: in the shower. He has lurid thoughts towards her. He's

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Speaker 1: hitting on her, he's harassing her. So many bad acts

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Speaker 1: between the two members of this couple. But who bears

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Speaker 1: the brunt of all their rage? Vanessa. She's the scapeboat.

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Speaker 1: She's the one upon whom they heap their hatred, their rage.

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Speaker 1: In my field, we call it a paranoid projection when

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Speaker 1: somebody knows that they've done something wrong, but they blame

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Speaker 1: somebody else for it, like a parent who loses their

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Speaker 1: child because due to alcoholism, But then they blame the

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Speaker 1: other parent who in whose care the child has been

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Speaker 1: placed and the child is receiving loving attention. So they

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Speaker 1: had a paranoid projection with Vanessa that she was the devil,

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Speaker 1: she was evil, she was doing bad things. It was

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Speaker 1: a projection into her of all of their bad acts.

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Speaker 1: So when you think of burning the body, it's like

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Speaker 1: burn baby, burn, you bitch. You deserve this, You bad person.

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Speaker 1: You said side double, double toil and trouble. Multiply that

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Speaker 1: exponentially to You're the one who's the bad person, not us.

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Speaker 1: And I think that is the underlying psychology. The viewers

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Speaker 1: are going to have a hard your listeners are going

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Speaker 1: to have a hard time by standing it because this

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Speaker 1: is at such a pathological level. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

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Speaker 1: In the midst of the disappearance and death of Vanessa Game,

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Speaker 1: another victim has emerged. His name Gregory Weidel Moralice can

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Speaker 1: listen to our friends at KWKT Fox forty four. Morales's

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Speaker 1: mother thought her son overslept, but as time went on,

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Speaker 1: she became more worried, concerned that he's either got in

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Speaker 1: with the wrong people and something's happened to him. The

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Speaker 1: fear leaving friends to searchful answers on their own. If

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Speaker 1: I'm just driving hoping to see him, hoping to see

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Speaker 1: the car, he are all genuinely, you know, concerned about

421
00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:35,480
Speaker 1: his state of mind. You are hearing friends describing Gregory

422
00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:39,600
Speaker 1: Wheedle Morales and enjoying me right now is a very

423
00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:45,880
Speaker 1: special guest. His mother, Kim, Miss Wheedle, thank you for

424
00:29:45,920 --> 00:29:49,880
Speaker 1: being with us. You're very welcome, Miss Wheedle. All of

425
00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:52,800
Speaker 1: the news and the headlines have been about Vanessa Ghim

426
00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:57,320
Speaker 1: and I understand that, but Paula was first stated that

427
00:29:57,400 --> 00:30:01,040
Speaker 1: your son must have committed suicide. That is not true.

428
00:30:01,080 --> 00:30:04,520
Speaker 1: There's no way he could have committed suicide and buried

429
00:30:04,560 --> 00:30:10,000
Speaker 1: his own body away from Forthood. What are police telling

430
00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:14,120
Speaker 1: you at this time? We're not getting a lot of

431
00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:19,800
Speaker 1: information about anything. The new there is a new homicide

432
00:30:19,800 --> 00:30:22,640
Speaker 1: detective in charge, so we do at least know that

433
00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:28,840
Speaker 1: they're considering a homicide now. Also with me regarding Gregory

434
00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:34,120
Speaker 1: Wheedle Morals is Vincent Hill kJ R HTV Vincent. What

435
00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:37,000
Speaker 1: do we know about the cod cause of death and

436
00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:42,800
Speaker 1: how was Gregory's remains found? Well, Nancy, not much is

437
00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:45,320
Speaker 1: known about a cause of death right now. The autopsy

438
00:30:45,360 --> 00:30:49,480
Speaker 1: with Dallas County metal examiners is still ending, but we

439
00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:52,320
Speaker 1: do know they were found in a revolt field not

440
00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:56,600
Speaker 1: too far from Forthood, Texas, based on a tip at

441
00:30:56,680 --> 00:31:02,000
Speaker 1: Colleen Police received via the telephone. But the important thing, Nancy,

442
00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:05,320
Speaker 1: is he was missing since August of twenty nineteen when

443
00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:08,040
Speaker 1: the Army considered him a wall. Then he ends up

444
00:31:08,040 --> 00:31:10,520
Speaker 1: in this remote field not far from the base, which

445
00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:14,960
Speaker 1: really isn't consistent with a wall. And Gregory Morales was

446
00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:17,760
Speaker 1: set to get out of the army and tour of

447
00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:22,920
Speaker 1: service just weeks before our weeks after he went missing. Nancy,

448
00:31:23,160 --> 00:31:26,680
Speaker 1: you know, we know that the remains Gregory Wheedle Morales

449
00:31:26,680 --> 00:31:30,080
Speaker 1: were found in an open field just minutes away from

450
00:31:30,120 --> 00:31:35,280
Speaker 1: Fort Hood. Investigators working the scene talked about the agony

451
00:31:35,400 --> 00:31:39,360
Speaker 1: of not knowing what had happened to Gregory. Back to

452
00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:43,520
Speaker 1: a special guest joining us, his mother, Kim, Kim, what

453
00:31:43,800 --> 00:31:49,040
Speaker 1: happened the last day that you saw Gregory alive? He

454
00:31:49,080 --> 00:31:53,360
Speaker 1: had actually called me. We were texting back and forth mainly,

455
00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:55,960
Speaker 1: but he had called me that day just tell me

456
00:31:56,040 --> 00:31:59,120
Speaker 1: that he had bought a new car recently, because I

457
00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:04,360
Speaker 1: was trying to help him find a new car. And

458
00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:08,280
Speaker 1: he started texting back and forth about needing some gas money.

459
00:32:09,280 --> 00:32:14,040
Speaker 1: And that's pretty much our last conversation. He was just

460
00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:18,720
Speaker 1: struggling financially, but he was He was just happy. He

461
00:32:18,800 --> 00:32:21,040
Speaker 1: was going to be out soon. He had plans. He

462
00:32:21,160 --> 00:32:29,000
Speaker 1: was telling me about to go to school. I just yeah,

463
00:32:29,040 --> 00:32:36,440
Speaker 1: I told him, isn't it true, miss Wheedle, that your son,

464
00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:39,440
Speaker 1: your boy? I have a twelve yea all Son right

465
00:32:39,440 --> 00:32:45,520
Speaker 1: now is still considered a wall until the autopsy comes back,

466
00:32:45,560 --> 00:32:49,120
Speaker 1: and you want that status changed. The Army's saying, unless

467
00:32:49,120 --> 00:32:53,440
Speaker 1: the autopsy shows he's been dead the entire time he's

468
00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:58,280
Speaker 1: been missing. They will not change his status. Therefore, you

469
00:32:58,440 --> 00:33:02,200
Speaker 1: and your family get no benefits with an a wall determination.

470
00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:07,760
Speaker 1: Is that true? That's true. I can't believe this. I

471
00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:11,280
Speaker 1: can't believe what's happening, Vincent Hill. They dropped the ball

472
00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:13,960
Speaker 1: the army. The army, and my dad was in the Navy.

473
00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:17,800
Speaker 1: I'm all for the military, but they dropped the ball

474
00:33:17,840 --> 00:33:22,360
Speaker 1: on the Knesset game. They dropped it. Now they're dropping

475
00:33:22,360 --> 00:33:26,719
Speaker 1: it with Gregory as well. Vincent. Yeah, Nancy, I couldn't

476
00:33:26,760 --> 00:33:30,400
Speaker 1: agree more. And you know again, I grew up military.

477
00:33:30,400 --> 00:33:33,680
Speaker 1: I was in the military. The concept that Gregory would

478
00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:36,040
Speaker 1: go a wall just weeks before he was due to

479
00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:40,239
Speaker 1: get out is ridiculous at best. So the fact that

480
00:33:40,280 --> 00:33:43,840
Speaker 1: the Army is still holding on and putting the family

481
00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:46,880
Speaker 1: through this thing that says, oh, well, if he wasn't

482
00:33:46,920 --> 00:33:49,840
Speaker 1: dead at least ten months, where still gonna consider him

483
00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:52,800
Speaker 1: a wall? Obviously he did not put himself in that field.

484
00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:55,600
Speaker 1: So the fact whether he was or wasn't a wall

485
00:33:55,880 --> 00:33:59,560
Speaker 1: to be relevant to the US, And the reality is

486
00:33:59,600 --> 00:34:02,200
Speaker 1: to you, doctor Chris Perry. If they can't come up

487
00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:04,480
Speaker 1: with a cause of death, they certainly are not going

488
00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:06,320
Speaker 1: to come up with the time and date of death.

489
00:34:06,760 --> 00:34:10,480
Speaker 1: Oh no, no, that's the time and date of death

490
00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:17,719
Speaker 1: in you, mister Morales, is virtually impossible to ascertain from

491
00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:21,920
Speaker 1: a forensic pathology standpoint. You know, we know that his

492
00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:26,800
Speaker 1: phone mysteriously go silent. He was looking forward to getting

493
00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:30,279
Speaker 1: out of the military, going to college. Then suddenly he's

494
00:34:30,320 --> 00:34:34,640
Speaker 1: no longer answering Facebook, his phone or other messages. Then

495
00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:38,960
Speaker 1: he doesn't show up at Fort Hood? Is that how

496
00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:43,719
Speaker 1: it went out? To Gregory's mother, Kim Wheedle, That's exactly right.

497
00:34:43,840 --> 00:34:48,040
Speaker 1: His phone was dead almost immediately from the I mean,

498
00:34:48,680 --> 00:34:52,080
Speaker 1: he's a typical, typical guy. His phone was never dead.

499
00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:55,800
Speaker 1: He made sure he charged it and from the first

500
00:34:55,800 --> 00:34:59,120
Speaker 1: time we tried to reach him, it just went straight

501
00:34:59,160 --> 00:35:04,040
Speaker 1: to voicemail. Did he go from a wall to desertion? Status?

502
00:35:04,719 --> 00:35:08,839
Speaker 1: That he deserted? That's Army protocol, and he went from

503
00:35:09,239 --> 00:35:12,120
Speaker 1: a wall to desert He has been murdered and found

504
00:35:12,160 --> 00:35:14,520
Speaker 1: in a shallow grave. And the only reason he was

505
00:35:14,600 --> 00:35:18,759
Speaker 1: found is because Vanessa Ghia went missing. That's why he

506
00:35:18,840 --> 00:35:23,040
Speaker 1: was found. Now, how far away Vincent Hill was his

507
00:35:23,120 --> 00:35:26,400
Speaker 1: body found from Fort Hood? Nanty I believe it was

508
00:35:26,520 --> 00:35:31,320
Speaker 1: less than ten miles from Fort Hood. But the important

509
00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:35,160
Speaker 1: part here the field. I think unless you knew that

510
00:35:35,239 --> 00:35:38,359
Speaker 1: field was there, it's not a typical place you would

511
00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:41,480
Speaker 1: just go to dump a body. I think someone whoever

512
00:35:41,560 --> 00:35:44,640
Speaker 1: did this knew that field was there. They knew exactly

513
00:35:44,719 --> 00:35:47,239
Speaker 1: where to place Gregory where he wouldn't be found for

514
00:35:47,320 --> 00:35:50,919
Speaker 1: quite some time because it's not on an open road

515
00:35:50,920 --> 00:35:54,480
Speaker 1: where you can just see it from a street or highway.

516
00:35:54,560 --> 00:35:57,600
Speaker 1: It's pretty hidden. Nancy, Okay, you Sheryl McCollum, you're the

517
00:35:57,600 --> 00:36:00,600
Speaker 1: crime scene expert, director of the cold case research is

518
00:36:00,719 --> 00:36:03,200
Speaker 1: to do you weigh in? The Army said there's no

519
00:36:03,280 --> 00:36:07,719
Speaker 1: credible link between Vanessa and mister Morales, and I disagree.

520
00:36:08,320 --> 00:36:11,000
Speaker 1: Number one, they're from the same base, same rate. They

521
00:36:11,040 --> 00:36:13,880
Speaker 1: were both listed as a wall. They both left valuables

522
00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:16,920
Speaker 1: behind like money and clothing. They were both ignored by

523
00:36:16,960 --> 00:36:21,000
Speaker 1: the Army for months. They were both found murdered. They

524
00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:24,560
Speaker 1: were both found murdered in shallow graves. They were both

525
00:36:24,719 --> 00:36:28,239
Speaker 1: last seen owner near the base. The Army has had

526
00:36:28,280 --> 00:36:31,360
Speaker 1: little contact with the family, won't share anything with the family.

527
00:36:31,640 --> 00:36:34,520
Speaker 1: They both had cell phone stop immediately and both bodies

528
00:36:34,520 --> 00:36:36,839
Speaker 1: were about thirty miles from the base in the same

529
00:36:36,920 --> 00:36:42,319
Speaker 1: general area near that river. Really, seriously, we have a

530
00:36:42,360 --> 00:36:45,880
Speaker 1: problem at Fort Hood and they're doing nothing about it

531
00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:49,680
Speaker 1: except deny, deny, deny, And look, I am not a

532
00:36:49,719 --> 00:36:53,040
Speaker 1: conspiracy theorist at all. I don't think people are a

533
00:36:53,160 --> 00:36:56,000
Speaker 1: smart enough for a conspiracy or be smart enough to

534
00:36:56,040 --> 00:36:58,560
Speaker 1: keep their yapt shut at least would you agree with that?

535
00:36:58,680 --> 00:37:01,880
Speaker 1: Troy s Layton really hard to keep a secret, and

536
00:37:02,280 --> 00:37:08,360
Speaker 1: that's why we saw That's why we saw our woman

537
00:37:08,440 --> 00:37:12,520
Speaker 1: who's been arrested immediately open up her mouth and help

538
00:37:12,600 --> 00:37:16,959
Speaker 1: police and lead them on a golden path to all

539
00:37:17,040 --> 00:37:21,320
Speaker 1: the different places where you're not getting to me Slighton.

540
00:37:21,640 --> 00:37:24,879
Speaker 1: I still envision her cackling over Vanessa's body as it

541
00:37:24,920 --> 00:37:28,160
Speaker 1: burns and a pit. But the point is, I don't

542
00:37:28,200 --> 00:37:31,320
Speaker 1: think there's a conspiracy, but I do think Sheryl McCollum

543
00:37:31,440 --> 00:37:34,000
Speaker 1: is right. I think there is a direct link. It's

544
00:37:34,040 --> 00:37:40,120
Speaker 1: just too many similarities now I'm talking about Vanessa to Gregory.

545
00:37:40,520 --> 00:37:45,400
Speaker 1: There's too many similarities at least when it comes to

546
00:37:45,600 --> 00:37:51,520
Speaker 1: wrong negligence on the part of Fort Hood. Kim Wheatle

547
00:37:51,920 --> 00:37:56,359
Speaker 1: Gregory's mother, what is your message to Fort Hood today.

548
00:37:56,880 --> 00:37:59,080
Speaker 1: My message to Forthood is that they need to just

549
00:37:59,120 --> 00:38:01,960
Speaker 1: step up and try and find a way to fix

550
00:38:02,080 --> 00:38:04,440
Speaker 1: these problems so that they can protect the soldiers who

551
00:38:04,440 --> 00:38:08,800
Speaker 1: are still there. They failed on many levels to protect

552
00:38:08,880 --> 00:38:12,440
Speaker 1: my son and Vanessa, and there's several others who are

553
00:38:12,480 --> 00:38:17,160
Speaker 1: also missing with no information on them. Miss Wheedle, can

554
00:38:17,200 --> 00:38:19,719
Speaker 1: you do me a favor? Can you just tell me

555
00:38:20,400 --> 00:38:26,400
Speaker 1: one story about Gregory as he was growing up? Just

556
00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:30,200
Speaker 1: anything I want to. I want to know something about

557
00:38:30,280 --> 00:38:38,240
Speaker 1: him as a person. Gregory was You're gonna make me cry.

558
00:38:40,280 --> 00:38:49,440
Speaker 1: One of those special kids who just loved everybody. Probably

559
00:38:49,480 --> 00:38:53,480
Speaker 1: my favorite memory is just watching him around our living room.

560
00:38:53,600 --> 00:38:57,279
Speaker 1: He loved a movie about Lane Frost eight Seconds, and

561
00:38:57,400 --> 00:39:00,759
Speaker 1: he wanted to be a bullwriter and he would get

562
00:39:00,800 --> 00:39:04,520
Speaker 1: on his stick horse and run through the house showing, okay, boys, okay,

563
00:39:06,080 --> 00:39:16,160
Speaker 1: it's just oh goodness. He was just a kid who

564
00:39:16,160 --> 00:39:20,800
Speaker 1: wanted everybody to be a happy old time. He hated

565
00:39:20,920 --> 00:39:23,440
Speaker 1: people to be upset. You'd try to make them laughs.

566
00:39:24,520 --> 00:39:31,440
Speaker 1: You know, Miss Wheedle, I'm on your side. If there's

567
00:39:31,520 --> 00:39:36,720
Speaker 1: anything we Crime Stories can do to help you, we will.

568
00:39:38,520 --> 00:39:41,600
Speaker 1: And I pray the Army comes to its sensus but

569
00:39:41,680 --> 00:39:46,640
Speaker 1: I think it's gonna take action as well. Nancy Grace

570
00:39:46,760 --> 00:39:50,160
Speaker 1: Crime Story signing off goodbye friend,