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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie, and you're listening to stuff I've

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Speaker 1: never told you. Today, we have a very special bonus

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Speaker 1: episode for you, just in time for Christmas. And we

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Speaker 1: also have a special guest, my good friend Katie. We

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Speaker 1: started out as roommates in college and we would go

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Speaker 1: every Friday to a laporea UM and we would get

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Speaker 1: a student discount at the movie theater. Yeah, every Friday.

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Speaker 1: And we saw a lot of bad movies, and we

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Speaker 1: continue to see a lot of bad movies, yes, but

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Speaker 1: we never really watched Christmas movies. We were very much

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Speaker 1: into the horror more than anything else. Yes, and there

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Speaker 1: is the sweet spot of Christmas horror movies. Oh, I

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Speaker 1: do love those. They are universally bad, but I love them. Yes.

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Speaker 1: So if you if you couldn't tell, today we're going

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Speaker 1: to be talking about, um some some holiday movie trips

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Speaker 1: because one thing that you are an expert in these

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Speaker 1: holiday movies. Yes, I would say specifically the Hallmark brand, UM,

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Speaker 1: but it's really expanded to different channels like Ion Channel

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Speaker 1: and Lifetime and those are actually a little bit more

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Speaker 1: edgy and more diverse, and I appreciate them a lot

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Speaker 1: because there is more diversity, and I know we'll talk

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Speaker 1: a little bit more about that later. But Hallmarks, you know,

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Speaker 1: very conservative. Oh yeah, well i'll see. I don't have

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Speaker 1: much experience at all, which is why it's good that

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Speaker 1: you're here. Um. And yeah, thank you so much for

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Speaker 1: joining us for this very special episode. Thank you for

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Speaker 1: having me kind of meta experience after listening to this

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Speaker 1: podcast for so many years to be on it, so

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Speaker 1: you know that's nice. Yeah, well let's dive in here.

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Speaker 1: But first, do you have any any favorites, any favorite

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Speaker 1: holiday movies? Well, if we're going like kind of Hallmark

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Speaker 1: brand Christmas movies, there's two that I tend to watch

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Speaker 1: every year, and they're they're fairly recent. Um. One is

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Speaker 1: A Christmas Kiss okay um, which is actually an I

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Speaker 1: on television movie, So I guess I should clarify that. Um.

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Speaker 1: I really love the main character, Wendy Walton, that she

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Speaker 1: has like really great supportive friends and their named Tressa

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Speaker 1: and Caroline and Trisa in particular, is a little bit

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Speaker 1: more fleshed out than most of the sidekicks, and she

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Speaker 1: has her own career that she's really passionate about, but

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Speaker 1: she's still very supportive. And I actually think this movie

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Speaker 1: passes the bec Deltas, which not a lot of holiday

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Speaker 1: movies do. I don't think, Oh yeah, um, so yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's why I like this one. There's even a curse word,

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Speaker 1: I know I on television Edgy, Like I said, Um.

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Speaker 1: The second one that I really like is The Spirit

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Speaker 1: of Christmas, UM, where the main male character is actually

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Speaker 1: a ghost um and he was murdered on Christmas Eve

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Speaker 1: years before, and so there's a little bit of the

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Speaker 1: murder mystery element to it. And I honestly can't tell

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Speaker 1: you how it really makes any sense at all that

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Speaker 1: they like wind up together as he's a ghost, and

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Speaker 1: but it's just okay, you just go with it. You're like,

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Speaker 1: I buy it. So you know, the Spirit of Christmas

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Speaker 1: is worth a watch in my opinion. Okay, And is

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Speaker 1: that a hallmark? I think so. Um. I watched it

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Speaker 1: on Netflix and I tried to look it up and

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Speaker 1: I didn't see what and all it originated on. But

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Speaker 1: kind of looking at these two movies, I did notice

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Speaker 1: that I believe they were both written by a woman,

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Speaker 1: So I think that I think that probably adds to

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Speaker 1: you know, now that I know that, I'm like, oh,

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Speaker 1: that totally makes more sense. Because I like the feeble

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Speaker 1: characters better in these movies than a lot of the

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Speaker 1: others that I've seen. So right, And the thing about

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Speaker 1: when I was looking into this, because I have a

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Speaker 1: certain subset of holiday movies I watch every year, but

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Speaker 1: beyond that, I don't really venture out. Um. But I

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Speaker 1: was trying to research and prepare for this episode, very

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Speaker 1: special bonus episode, um. And a lot of people have

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Speaker 1: written essays about why they think that we love these

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Speaker 1: very formulaic um holiday movies. I mean, they're they're they're

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Speaker 1: the junk food. Yeah, they're they're soothing. You know exactly

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Speaker 1: how they're going to turn out. It doesn't take a

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Speaker 1: lot of thought. And you know, the holidays are crazy,

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Speaker 1: You've got family everywhere, You're trying to figure out your

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Speaker 1: opping and maybe in some cases you're avoiding your family,

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Speaker 1: and you know, it's it's just soothing, and so I

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Speaker 1: mean it's like big budget action movies like in the summer.

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Speaker 1: I think it's just like the holiday version of that.

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Speaker 1: They just they don't require a lot of thought, right,

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Speaker 1: And a lot of articles pointed out how beautiful they

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Speaker 1: are and like unrealistically, so if you take the case

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Speaker 1: of New York. There's never raining graffiti, you're dumb or yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean you might even be getting into the bigger

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Speaker 1: budget ones that are actually filmed in the winter. Most

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Speaker 1: of them on the Hallmark Channel are not. There's like

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Speaker 1: little patches of snow and then there's just like beautiful

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Speaker 1: green trees in the background, and you're like, oh, this

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Speaker 1: is a lovely winter scene, right, And so it's like

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Speaker 1: you just see them like it's so cold and like

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Speaker 1: nobody's breath is showing and all that stuff. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: I part of me think that's why a lot of

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Speaker 1: them aren't set in big cities is because it just

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Speaker 1: costs more to make them there. And so it's like

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Speaker 1: small towns are the best thing ever for our holiday movies, right,

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Speaker 1: Which is interesting because it plays into a trope. Oh

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Speaker 1: my gosh, this trope is honestly one of the ones

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Speaker 1: that I find the most annoying. A lot of big

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Speaker 1: city career women going to the small town because something

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Speaker 1: to do with their job. You know, I've got to

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Speaker 1: write this story, I've got to buy this property. They

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Speaker 1: get sent out there and they play it for last

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Speaker 1: a lot where it's like this big city woman is

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Speaker 1: there and she can't survive without her constant WiFi and

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Speaker 1: lattez Just how dare she thinks she's better than us

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Speaker 1: kind of thing, And I don't like that dichotomy. And

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Speaker 1: I think it plays into a lot of like, you know,

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Speaker 1: political identity as well, where it's like I'm rural, I'm

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Speaker 1: a real American, that kind of thing, and I dislike that,

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Speaker 1: you know, from my own experience and I know from

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Speaker 1: your experience. We're both from like small towns in Georgia,

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Speaker 1: Like we've done the small town life. I'm currently living

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Speaker 1: in my hometown again. And it's just it's it glosses

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Speaker 1: over the fact that, you know, I live in a

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Speaker 1: small town or in my county where people don't have

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Speaker 1: the same political and social opinions as I do. And

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Speaker 1: I'm like someone coming from the city probably a little

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Speaker 1: bit more liberal than these people in a small town.

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Speaker 1: Not to try to generalize, but I feel like that's

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Speaker 1: often the case, and it just completely glosses over that.

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Speaker 1: And you know, it's like that's a big change. There's

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Speaker 1: a lot of things that go into it, not just

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Speaker 1: because you met some hot guy who has a lot

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Speaker 1: of Christmas spirit and it's all gonna work out. Um.

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Speaker 1: So it's like that one in particular really does bother me. Um,

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Speaker 1: and it gets done. And so many of them, I

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Speaker 1: would say, the majority of them. Um. It is kind

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Speaker 1: of like you go, you've you've been chasing this career,

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Speaker 1: but it doesn't really make you happy. This small town

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Speaker 1: will make you happy. Which not to just on small towns,

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Speaker 1: like to each their own if that's the lifestyle you want.

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Speaker 1: But I think it just idealizes that too much. And

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Speaker 1: I mean, of course they're like short and sweet little movies.

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Speaker 1: They're not going into like the complexities of adult relationships.

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Speaker 1: But I mean that's a big change that no one

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Speaker 1: ever really addresses, right, And I am my limited experience

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Speaker 1: with holiday movies. The two trips that I have observed

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Speaker 1: the most are the Holiday the Hunk. The holiday hunk,

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Speaker 1: as I've seen him described, the woman comes for some reason.

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Speaker 1: She has to go to this small town. Perhaps there's

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Speaker 1: like her aunt has died and there's a legal thing

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Speaker 1: she's got to go do or something, but she has

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Speaker 1: to go back to this small town for whatever reason.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes it's to find the best Christmas tree in America.

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Speaker 1: That's happened a few times more than once that's happened. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean there's a lot of like I have to

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Speaker 1: find the perfect tree or the perfect X and like

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Speaker 1: because of my overly demanding boss. But yeah, it's like

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Speaker 1: there's some reason they've wound up in this town, right,

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Speaker 1: and then they meet the Holiday Hunk, and they sort

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Speaker 1: of leave this life that they created for themselves behind

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Speaker 1: in the city. And I always did feel along with

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Speaker 1: what you were saying. It also just I get the

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Speaker 1: point they're trying to make, and that you're too tied

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Speaker 1: up and work you've forgotten like the human elements of life.

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Speaker 1: But it's it is seeing that story over and over again.

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Speaker 1: It is simplified because these movies are yes, they're like

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Speaker 1: comfort food, they're short, but it is kind of exhausting. Yeah, no,

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Speaker 1: I completely agree. I'm like, I don't watch as many

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Speaker 1: of these movies as I used to. I mean, there

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Speaker 1: was one point a few years ago where I had

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Speaker 1: literally seen every holiday movie on the Hallmark channel for

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Speaker 1: a week and on Lifetime Movie the same week, and

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Speaker 1: it was like a point of like pride and kind

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Speaker 1: of deep shame because that was a lot of hours

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Speaker 1: of watching these movies. And so it's like I'm not

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Speaker 1: as up to date on like this year's batch of movies,

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Speaker 1: which there's many of them. Um, but yeah, it's like

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Speaker 1: the career woman going to the small town and then

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Speaker 1: the workaholic typically dad, um and then he somehow has

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Speaker 1: hired a woman to take care of his kids or

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Speaker 1: decorate his house because he's trying to make the holiday special,

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Speaker 1: but he's not actually taking time out of his busy

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Speaker 1: schedule until this almost manic pixie dream girl walks in

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Speaker 1: and she's bubbly and not as you know, done up

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Speaker 1: and organized, and it's almost like they're making fun of

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Speaker 1: her as well, because it's like she's not organized, she

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Speaker 1: doesn't have her life together, but this job like makes

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Speaker 1: her pull it together. And she meets this man and

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Speaker 1: she loves the kids, and then she changes him to

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Speaker 1: realize the importance of family, but she also learns how

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Speaker 1: to get her life together. Um. So yeah, those that

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Speaker 1: happens a lot. Yeah, that's the other troupe in my

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Speaker 1: subset of six movies that I watched every year. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I have noticed is the workaholic dad like on Christmas

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Speaker 1: Eve realizing, oh, I've been so wrong all this time.

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Speaker 1: My family is so important, I know, Also, there's a

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Speaker 1: lot of very bad parenting going on in the Sawmart

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Speaker 1: movies because like the kids are there as plot devices,

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Speaker 1: but they're like, I'm like, you are leaving them unsupervised.

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Speaker 1: There's often some sort of like accident where of course

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Speaker 1: they're okay, but you know they've been in danger, and

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Speaker 1: I'm like, people need to take away your children away,

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Speaker 1: Like I mean, maybe that would be helpful, um if

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Speaker 1: you provided good childcare. But yet again not the point

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Speaker 1: of the movies. Yes, not as exciting. Yeah, it's also

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Speaker 1: very funny because like the same child actors pop up,

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Speaker 1: unlike the Hallmark movies, like oh yeah, I was the

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Speaker 1: same kid of the single mom over here, and now

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Speaker 1: is the kid of the single dad, And it's like

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Speaker 1: it's just so funny. I guess once they find a

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Speaker 1: kid actor that works, they just go with it. I

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Speaker 1: bet someone out there has made like they unified the

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Speaker 1: universe of holiday movies. Probably, I'm sure if that person

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Speaker 1: is listening, please please let us Yes, I would love

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Speaker 1: that list. I mean, and like Hallmark in particular is

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Speaker 1: very bad, are bad? Are good? Depending on how you

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Speaker 1: look at it. Hiring the same people every year to

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Speaker 1: do these movies like Lacy Sabert of Mean Girls fame

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Speaker 1: has been in so many Hallmark movies. Yes, and Kendice

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Speaker 1: kemn Bret who played DJ on Full House. She is

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Speaker 1: in a lot of them. Yes, I didn't know that

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Speaker 1: her name. I Yeah. The men actually get cycled through

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Speaker 1: a lot more than the women. Like you'll see like

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Speaker 1: one actor in like a two or three movies, but

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Speaker 1: not any of the level of Lacey Shabert. She's the

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Speaker 1: number one, I think. So as an actor, I know

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Speaker 1: the dream is to get one successful holiday movie because

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Speaker 1: they play it every year. Yeah, and so you'll at

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Speaker 1: least have that that you can depend on. Good for them,

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Speaker 1: I know, I'm like that probably is a very sweet

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Speaker 1: job where you're like, I'm going to go make these

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Speaker 1: Christmas movies, guys, I'll be back and you'll you'll see

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Speaker 1: me again next year, So more power to him. Another

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Speaker 1: trope that I found a lot when I was researching

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Speaker 1: this is the workaholic grinch. Yes. Um, there's a very

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Speaker 1: good example of this in a movie called It's Christmas Carol,

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Speaker 1: like with the comma. Oh. Yes. She is a book editor,

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Speaker 1: high powered and her former boss who is actually played

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Speaker 1: by the late Great Carrie Fisher, and she then comes

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Speaker 1: back as all three of the ghosts, and she has

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Speaker 1: to learn work isn't everything, and you know, she goes

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Speaker 1: to the funeral for herself and no one's there and

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Speaker 1: all of these things. The part that made me almost

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Speaker 1: lose my mind is that this incredibly knowledgeable book editor

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Speaker 1: had to google the basic plot of a Christmas Carol.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I don't know about that, just so like

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Speaker 1: the audience would know. And I'm just like, if you're

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Speaker 1: watching this movie, you're probably familiar, and be you expect

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Speaker 1: me to believe a literary editor doesn't know one of

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Speaker 1: the most famous stories ever. And so I was just like, Okay,

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Speaker 1: you got some points for Carrie Fisher, but I think

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Speaker 1: you just lost them. That's a pretty big miss step. Yeah. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: There's a couple of other variations on the workaholic grinches

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Speaker 1: that often show up in these movies, um, and one

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Speaker 1: of them is that there's a Christmas themed business, like

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Speaker 1: they make gingerbread or you know, they make plastic candy canes,

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Speaker 1: like various strange Christmas related items, and this business is

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Speaker 1: in trouble and it's pretty much the source of jobs

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Speaker 1: for the entire town so if they lose this business,

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Speaker 1: like the town is going to die. And then normally

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Speaker 1: the head of the company is a man who's trying

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Speaker 1: to preserve his family's legacy. And not not exclusively men,

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Speaker 1: but I feel like that happens more often than women

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Speaker 1: being in charge of these companies. And then a woman

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Speaker 1: who is either a workaholic from a different company that's

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Speaker 1: like interested in buying this one out or taking it

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Speaker 1: over comes in and then you know, she saves the

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Speaker 1: company at the end, and then of course they fall

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Speaker 1: in love and run this company together. Um. But then

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Speaker 1: there's also a different female archtec with the same like

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Speaker 1: porcoholic company man, and that's just someone who like loves

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Speaker 1: Christmas so much and she can't lose this this part

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Speaker 1: of Christmas and it's been in her childhood. And for

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Speaker 1: some reason, this love of Christmas seems to magically give

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Speaker 1: her powers to save businesses, Like she comes up with

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Speaker 1: the idea that's going to save everything, even though like

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Speaker 1: these people who have been running the company for generations

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Speaker 1: couldn't think of it, and so you know, she comes

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Speaker 1: up with an innovative idea and it's all well by Christmas.

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Speaker 1: Normally they have a Christmas even day like deadline, like

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Speaker 1: we have to show that you can save the business,

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Speaker 1: because of course that's when people do the most business

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Speaker 1: of the year. And there's also different architect where there's

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Speaker 1: typically a female character who's working really hard at a

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Speaker 1: job that's not her passion. So she could be like

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Speaker 1: an interior designer, but she actually really loves designing stage productions,

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Speaker 1: as in a Christmas kiss um. And then she's working

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Speaker 1: so hard at this job and it typically has something

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Speaker 1: to do with baking or writing or design kind of

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Speaker 1: already sort of feminine or at least thought of a

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Speaker 1: feminine it would it's she's not like a woodworker, you know, um,

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Speaker 1: and she's somehow finds a way to be successful and

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Speaker 1: financially secure pursuing her passion and you know, generally with

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Speaker 1: the help of a man in some way, like he

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Speaker 1: makes her realize that she needs to, you know, pursue

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Speaker 1: her dreams and things like that. So yeah, the workaholic

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Speaker 1: grinch is or just workaholics in general is very common,

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Speaker 1: and there's complex variations thereof sounds like I've been missing

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Speaker 1: out all these years, any I suppose, So, I mean

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Speaker 1: I would say of the six or seven I watch

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Speaker 1: every year four are this but with men as the

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Speaker 1: workaholic grunch, and it does surprise me. I guess it should,

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Speaker 1: and I guess that's the whole point that they're Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they're always working on Christmas Eve and it's like at

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Speaker 1: night on Christmas Eve two. Like I've worked on Christmas Eve,

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Speaker 1: but I always got off, Like it's always always during

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Speaker 1: the day. That's acceptable. I mean it's not really, but

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Speaker 1: I have at least was able to leave my job

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Speaker 1: and for I know for some people that that's not

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Speaker 1: even an option, but in the cases of these movies,

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Speaker 1: it absolutely is an option and they're choosing. Yeah. I

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Speaker 1: do wonder if that also ties back into a Christmas Carol,

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Speaker 1: where you know, poor little Bob Cratchett having to nego

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Speaker 1: shape the time off. So I wonder if that's where

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Speaker 1: that archetype came from. And it's like he, yeah, he

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Speaker 1: who Bob Crashett, who wanted to go home and spend

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Speaker 1: time with his family because he has kind of held

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Speaker 1: up as like the ideal family man versus the people

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Speaker 1: who are choosing to do it, you know, and comment

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Speaker 1: on our materialistic society. Yeah, which is so interesting because

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Speaker 1: Christmas is materialistic. Yeah, and it's it's it's funny because

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Speaker 1: like they're definitely Hallmark movies where it's like, we got

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Speaker 1: this sponsor and we are going to feature them to

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Speaker 1: no end. And the one that I particularly remember is

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Speaker 1: a Christmas Kiss Too, which is not nearly as good

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Speaker 1: as a Christmas Kiss. I will straight up tell you

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Speaker 1: that Christmas Chris two did premiere on the Hallmark channel.

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Speaker 1: And in it, there's a very wealthy man whose family

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Speaker 1: runs a department store, but he's always been kind of

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Speaker 1: not taking it seriously. And then he meets his sister's

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Speaker 1: assistant who has really great ideas but she just can't

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Speaker 1: get them out there, and you know, they fall in

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Speaker 1: love and at the end he proposes spoiler alert and

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Speaker 1: with the ring he opens the box and it's from

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Speaker 1: K Jewelers and she and she says, is that the

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Speaker 1: such and such diamond from K Jewelers? Like that's her

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Speaker 1: reaction to this proposal and everything, And you're just like,

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Speaker 1: not just not in K. But if I'm with a multimillionaire,

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Speaker 1: I would expect him not to go to K. I

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Speaker 1: mean that might just be a snob thing for me,

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Speaker 1: but it was unexpected to say the least. Yeah, that

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Speaker 1: is definitely not the first thing. I I mean, who knows,

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Speaker 1: but I don't think that'd be the first thing out

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Speaker 1: of my mouth and someone, Yeah, it's like you you weren't.

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Speaker 1: Just like I was admiring that diamond at K Jewelers.

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Speaker 1: I go every day after work, and I would fantasize

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Speaker 1: about this day I know, And it's I don't think

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Speaker 1: she even worked at like a jewelry store. Like that

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Speaker 1: was the strangest thing about it. It's like there wasn't

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Speaker 1: really a reason for her to know this diamond. I mean,

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Speaker 1: unless I'm confusing it with a different movie, which is

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Speaker 1: quite possible. They do run together with very similar titles

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Speaker 1: and actresses and such as that. But for some reason,

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Speaker 1: that one really stuck with me. I was like, I

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Speaker 1: see what you did their Cage Jewelers. That's funny because

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Speaker 1: we were just talking about, um, we were watching Home

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Speaker 1: Alone recently, yes, and we were talking about product placement

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Speaker 1: and Home Alone and a lot of it is pretty

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Speaker 1: well done because I didn't notice it until, like, this

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Speaker 1: is probably the hundred plus time I've seen that movie.

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Speaker 1: To be honest, I didn't notice it until you pointed

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Speaker 1: it out like I don't know what I know. And

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Speaker 1: then you're like, look, how did this product place? But

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Speaker 1: I'm like, okay, I never noticed, so I guess it

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Speaker 1: didn't work on me, or either it did, and you

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Speaker 1: I didn't even know what some of those products were. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: well whatever ceial he was eating. I'm like, I don't.

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Speaker 1: I don't recognize that at all. Well, an excellent study

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Speaker 1: in product placement done correctly, then yes, I would say. So.

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Speaker 1: Another trip we're got to talk about is Princesses. And

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Speaker 1: this came on my radar after listening to NPR recently

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Speaker 1: and they did a whole deep dive in what's the

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Speaker 1: big one on Netflix? It's really bad. Christmas Prince, Christmas

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Speaker 1: Prince Okay, Okay, that was came out last year, and

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Speaker 1: then this year A Christmas Prince to the Royal Wedding

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Speaker 1: came out this year, continuing the story of Richard and

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Speaker 1: Amber um Well. On the NPR segment, they were trying

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Speaker 1: to get to the bottom of why people were so

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Speaker 1: into this movie that most everyone agreed was pretty bad.

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Speaker 1: It's kind of what we were talking about of like

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Speaker 1: the comfort, the mindless entertainment of it. Yeah, I mean,

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Speaker 1: and I think being on Netflix is use a huge

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Speaker 1: advantage for that particular movie, because it's like you weren't

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Speaker 1: gonna sit down and watch it on Hallmark probably, you know,

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Speaker 1: and so it was just maybe a different audience that

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Speaker 1: got to see it, you know, for people who don't

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Speaker 1: have cable. You could watch at anytime, you could pause it,

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Speaker 1: you know. I mean, there's just there's just advantages to

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Speaker 1: being on Netflix, I think. And I think it just

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Speaker 1: hit all of the formulaic things you expect a princess

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Speaker 1: Christmas movie to hit. You know. It's like one of

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Speaker 1: the things about these prince or princess movies is there's

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Speaker 1: a lot of deception. It almost always starts off with,

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Speaker 1: you know, either the prince is pretending to be a

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Speaker 1: normal person because he wants to have a normal interaction

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Speaker 1: and the girl meets him when he's not the prince

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Speaker 1: and they sort of get interested, and then you know,

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Speaker 1: it has to come out that he's the prince and

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Speaker 1: she's been lied to. But the variation on this trope

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Speaker 1: that is actually an Christmas Prince is Amber, the lead

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00:24:03,840 --> 00:24:07,680
Speaker 1: female character is lying about being a journalist. She has

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00:24:07,760 --> 00:24:12,440
Speaker 1: used deception to pretend to be the prince's younger sisters

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Speaker 1: tutor to get into the palace, and that happens fairly often.

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00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:23,040
Speaker 1: It's generally like a journalistic angle, and they're they're trying

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Speaker 1: to get head in their career and they have a

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Speaker 1: very low opinion of the prince and the royal family,

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Speaker 1: and then they start to know them and they find

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Speaker 1: them charming and just have a difficult you know, life

401
00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:38,800
Speaker 1: in the spotlight and living up to the pressures. There's

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Speaker 1: generally a dead parent I mean, because you know, the

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00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:45,200
Speaker 1: prince has got to become the king somehow, I mean.

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00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:48,040
Speaker 1: But actually the dead parent trope is in a lot

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00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:51,000
Speaker 1: of these holiday movies where it's like there's a parent

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Speaker 1: who loved Christmas and that's why one of the characters

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00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:55,920
Speaker 1: loves Christmas so much. They're trying to keep it alive,

408
00:24:56,240 --> 00:24:59,119
Speaker 1: or it's like some family tragedy happened on Christmas and

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Speaker 1: they've been avoiding at their whole lives. Um. But specifically

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00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:05,840
Speaker 1: in a Christmas Prince the father has died, you never

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Speaker 1: see him. And another trope that you see in these

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Speaker 1: particularly princess or wealthy movies where the commoners you know,

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Speaker 1: coming into this world is they always have an ally

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Speaker 1: who knows how things work. So in a Christmas Prince,

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00:25:25,359 --> 00:25:29,920
Speaker 1: it's actually Princess Emily, the younger sister, who really embraces Amber,

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Speaker 1: and she actually knows that she's a journalist almost from

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Speaker 1: the beginning, but wants to help Amber get the truth

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Speaker 1: out about her brother, that he's not this playboy kind

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Speaker 1: of thing. And another thing about the princess trope is

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Speaker 1: that once they become a princess or become the love interest,

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Speaker 1: you know, there's the big magical reveal in a beautiful

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00:25:55,240 --> 00:25:57,359
Speaker 1: dress and the hair and the makeup is perfect, and

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Speaker 1: everyone kind of turns and gasps and they do that.

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Speaker 1: But then there's always something to show that they're still them,

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Speaker 1: Like they're wearing their lucky shoes, like tennis shoes, like

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00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:09,120
Speaker 1: they are in a Christmas Prince, or you know, it's

427
00:26:09,160 --> 00:26:12,720
Speaker 1: like the locket that their mother gave them. There's always

428
00:26:12,760 --> 00:26:16,520
Speaker 1: something to indicate to you. It's like they they they're

429
00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:20,159
Speaker 1: not really changed. There's still them. There's still the normal

430
00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:23,440
Speaker 1: person that this prince has fallen in love with. She's

431
00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:27,840
Speaker 1: still Jenny from the block, oh yes, or Ember from

432
00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:33,000
Speaker 1: the diner in this case, yes, so you know, and

433
00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:36,720
Speaker 1: then there's normally, like based on the deception, there's some

434
00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:40,679
Speaker 1: sort of moral dilemma, typically like how how do I

435
00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:42,760
Speaker 1: tell the prince that I'm in love with I've I've

436
00:26:42,840 --> 00:26:45,800
Speaker 1: only known for about three days that I've I've been

437
00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:48,440
Speaker 1: lying to him this whole time, and he trusts me,

438
00:26:48,480 --> 00:26:50,400
Speaker 1: and he has trust is shoes because people have tried

439
00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:54,840
Speaker 1: to use him. And there's also always the villain or

440
00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:59,240
Speaker 1: villainess character wants something from the prince, like they want

441
00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:01,680
Speaker 1: to be the princess, and so it's like they pretend

442
00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:06,639
Speaker 1: that they're in love to manipulate them into proposing, and

443
00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:13,240
Speaker 1: so they're very much out to get our normal girl protagonist. Um.

444
00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:16,520
Speaker 1: In the case of a Christmas prince, they break into

445
00:27:16,520 --> 00:27:20,359
Speaker 1: her room and discover that she has lied about her identity.

446
00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:24,080
Speaker 1: They also find the documents that she had found that

447
00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:27,879
Speaker 1: indicate that Prince Richard was adopted and actually isn't the

448
00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:31,840
Speaker 1: heir to the throne. Oh my goodness, Yeah, I wasn't

449
00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:34,720
Speaker 1: expecting this turn. Actually, that is like one of the

450
00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:37,000
Speaker 1: most surprising things I've seen in Christmas movies in a

451
00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:40,919
Speaker 1: long time, I know, where it's like he's not really

452
00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:45,160
Speaker 1: a blood relation to the late king. Um don't worry.

453
00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:48,280
Speaker 1: It works out. The king made a decree before he

454
00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:54,520
Speaker 1: died that Richard could become king. Oh god, yes, just

455
00:27:54,600 --> 00:27:57,760
Speaker 1: based on how good of a person he was, not

456
00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:02,679
Speaker 1: because of royal blood or lack there of. Yes, there's

457
00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:06,480
Speaker 1: like that message of like blood might not be there,

458
00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:09,760
Speaker 1: but you're still more son. Yeah, I mean I actually

459
00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:13,919
Speaker 1: did appreciate their their family dynamic because a lot of

460
00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:16,119
Speaker 1: times in these movies, particularly if it's like the wealthy

461
00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:18,840
Speaker 1: family or the royal family, there's one of the parents

462
00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:22,320
Speaker 1: is very aloof and it's very much only about the

463
00:28:22,359 --> 00:28:26,240
Speaker 1: perception and it's like they eventually come around because they've

464
00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:29,439
Speaker 1: been one over by normal girl charm or see that

465
00:28:29,480 --> 00:28:32,440
Speaker 1: their son is happy. But I actually got the impression

466
00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:36,439
Speaker 1: of a warm familial relationship between the parents and Richard

467
00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:39,120
Speaker 1: and Emily, which was actually kind of nice. I mean,

468
00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:41,800
Speaker 1: she the queen was still like we've got to think

469
00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:44,160
Speaker 1: about the country, but she was just very more, much

470
00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:47,120
Speaker 1: more open and loving than a lot of them are

471
00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:51,600
Speaker 1: portrayed in the movie, particularly in the beginning. H yeah,

472
00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:55,400
Speaker 1: a good review, kind of Christmas Prince. Oh, yes, I

473
00:28:55,440 --> 00:28:58,280
Speaker 1: can go into more detail if you would like getting

474
00:28:58,320 --> 00:29:02,320
Speaker 1: that sense. Yes, yeah, I mean. And then I think

475
00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:07,480
Speaker 1: another aspect of the princess appeal, as I like to

476
00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:09,480
Speaker 1: think of it, is that that just runs so deep

477
00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:12,360
Speaker 1: for girls because you're taught at such a young age

478
00:29:12,440 --> 00:29:17,680
Speaker 1: like this is how you are valued, Like your dad

479
00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:20,200
Speaker 1: treats you like a little princess. You're supposed to find

480
00:29:20,240 --> 00:29:22,640
Speaker 1: a man who treats you like a princess to like

481
00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:26,320
Speaker 1: be your worth. And you know, I think it's it's

482
00:29:26,360 --> 00:29:29,760
Speaker 1: just so ingrained that even if you when you're an adult,

483
00:29:29,760 --> 00:29:31,600
Speaker 1: you don't buy into it so much, but there's still

484
00:29:31,640 --> 00:29:33,959
Speaker 1: that aspect of it of you've been kind of taught

485
00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:37,320
Speaker 1: societally that this is kind of what you want, this

486
00:29:37,360 --> 00:29:40,040
Speaker 1: is what you want to achieve, and it's like, then

487
00:29:40,040 --> 00:29:43,360
Speaker 1: there's all the Disney movies where it's princesses, princesses, princesses,

488
00:29:44,040 --> 00:29:48,120
Speaker 1: and then you have the less problematic movies like Frozen Marijuana,

489
00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:53,959
Speaker 1: but they're still princesses. They're not normal girls. You know.

490
00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:56,520
Speaker 1: The princesses are the ones you're supposed to care about.

491
00:29:57,720 --> 00:30:01,640
Speaker 1: And then additionally, I think that kind of being with

492
00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:06,440
Speaker 1: a prince represents the ultimate security you could have in

493
00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:10,440
Speaker 1: your life. They're rich, they're powerful, like they're going to

494
00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:12,479
Speaker 1: their family has been around for so long. It's not

495
00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:14,560
Speaker 1: like suddenly the stock market is going to drop out

496
00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:16,920
Speaker 1: and they're gonna lose everything. I mean, they have a country,

497
00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:21,200
Speaker 1: you know, so and I think you know, you're never

498
00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:22,880
Speaker 1: if you're with a prince, you're never going to have

499
00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:25,480
Speaker 1: to do a real job. You know. It's like your

500
00:30:25,520 --> 00:30:29,520
Speaker 1: career is never going to be your focus and you're

501
00:30:29,520 --> 00:30:32,120
Speaker 1: not gonna have to do housework. But your role is

502
00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:36,840
Speaker 1: defined in a very like old school femininity, like this

503
00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:39,680
Speaker 1: is your role. And so like in a Christmas Prince

504
00:30:39,760 --> 00:30:44,840
Speaker 1: to the Royal wedding, you see Amber, our normal girl

505
00:30:45,320 --> 00:30:49,200
Speaker 1: struggling with that and you know, trying to modernize it.

506
00:30:49,280 --> 00:30:51,800
Speaker 1: That's also a very big theme. Like normal girl comes

507
00:30:51,800 --> 00:30:53,360
Speaker 1: in and says, well, I'm not going to do it.

508
00:30:53,440 --> 00:30:57,680
Speaker 1: I think your traditions are stupid, and some somehow everyone

509
00:30:57,760 --> 00:31:01,200
Speaker 1: comes to accept this, Like even the old dodgy royal

510
00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:04,320
Speaker 1: family is like, okay, I guess because he loves you,

511
00:31:04,600 --> 00:31:07,080
Speaker 1: Like that's totally fine. But so you know, just in

512
00:31:07,120 --> 00:31:11,160
Speaker 1: another way, situations are simplified. But you know, I think

513
00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:15,880
Speaker 1: there's multiple reasons why Christmas movies and then Princess Christmas

514
00:31:15,880 --> 00:31:22,080
Speaker 1: movies are so widely appealing. Yeah, I I mean, apart

515
00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:25,680
Speaker 1: from Frozen, which is not technically a Christmas movie because

516
00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:28,920
Speaker 1: it's like winter time, it plays a lot during the

517
00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:33,720
Speaker 1: Christmas season. I don't think I've seen it Christmas Princess movie,

518
00:31:33,720 --> 00:31:35,920
Speaker 1: and I didn't know until researching this that it was

519
00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:40,200
Speaker 1: such a big thing. Yeah, Like there's multiple ones on Netflix,

520
00:31:40,240 --> 00:31:44,680
Speaker 1: like not Netflix original ones. Um. I think another one

521
00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:50,400
Speaker 1: that I've watched is a Princess for Christmas um where

522
00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:56,360
Speaker 1: the main female characters caring for her orphaned niece and nephew.

523
00:31:57,480 --> 00:32:01,240
Speaker 1: Their parents have died tragically, but they're father was the

524
00:32:01,280 --> 00:32:05,320
Speaker 1: heir to some sort of title, and so they get

525
00:32:05,320 --> 00:32:09,720
Speaker 1: invited to go and see their stodgy, rich grandfather who

526
00:32:09,840 --> 00:32:12,640
Speaker 1: had problems with his son and banished him because he

527
00:32:12,760 --> 00:32:15,920
Speaker 1: married their mother, who was a commoner and everything. So

528
00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:18,120
Speaker 1: then her sister comes in and wins the heart of

529
00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:22,520
Speaker 1: his younger brother and eventually wins over the the old

530
00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:27,600
Speaker 1: curmudgin grandpa in the in the process. So you know,

531
00:32:28,880 --> 00:32:32,240
Speaker 1: princesses and Christmas just go so well together. They go

532
00:32:32,360 --> 00:32:34,760
Speaker 1: hand in hand apparently, I mean, because why else would

533
00:32:34,760 --> 00:32:36,560
Speaker 1: you be dressed up? You got to have the big

534
00:32:36,600 --> 00:32:41,600
Speaker 1: fancy dress reveal movement or moment. And how else are

535
00:32:41,600 --> 00:32:43,400
Speaker 1: you going to do that other than a Christmas eve ball?

536
00:32:44,560 --> 00:32:48,240
Speaker 1: Dub No, there's no other reason to dress up. It's

537
00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:50,480
Speaker 1: always Christmas eve too, And I'm like, do you people

538
00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:54,680
Speaker 1: not have other things to do to I have never

539
00:32:54,680 --> 00:32:56,840
Speaker 1: been invited to a Christmas eve ball, so you know

540
00:32:57,080 --> 00:32:59,480
Speaker 1: that's why I haven't been in my own Princess movie.

541
00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:03,360
Speaker 1: That's that's that. That's key. If I was invited to

542
00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:06,240
Speaker 1: a Christmas eve ball, it would happen. Everything would change,

543
00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:08,680
Speaker 1: it would I mean, I would have a fancy dress moment.

544
00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:14,240
Speaker 1: I would impress all of the aristocracy with my normalness.

545
00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:20,320
Speaker 1: But style, no stopping me. That's right. We we know

546
00:33:20,560 --> 00:33:23,720
Speaker 1: what to do. But execution. I know. It's like, you

547
00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:27,880
Speaker 1: can't just throw yourself a Christmas ball, that's the problem,

548
00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:31,600
Speaker 1: or can you? Well they haven't made a Hallmark movie

549
00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:34,200
Speaker 1: about that yet, so I don't know. Well, we could

550
00:33:34,200 --> 00:33:38,280
Speaker 1: be original, we could be trailblazers. Yes, we'll get to work.

551
00:33:38,640 --> 00:33:42,360
Speaker 1: We've got a couple of days throwing together in Christmas ball.

552
00:33:42,960 --> 00:33:47,840
Speaker 1: You're all invited. Yes, what will we do for orders? Though? Popcorn?

553
00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:51,960
Speaker 1: You can't have popcorn at a Christmas ball. Aye. But

554
00:33:52,040 --> 00:33:55,040
Speaker 1: this is how I impressed people is I provide food

555
00:33:55,160 --> 00:33:59,640
Speaker 1: that is um, both well loved and not typically seen

556
00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:03,480
Speaker 1: as a rich, fancy thing. Pigs and a blanket are

557
00:34:03,480 --> 00:34:06,280
Speaker 1: a way better for the susstance than popcorn does thrown

558
00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:10,479
Speaker 1: that out there can have both. Yeah, we have some

559
00:34:10,520 --> 00:34:13,360
Speaker 1: more tropes to dive into, but first we have a

560
00:34:13,400 --> 00:34:25,960
Speaker 1: quick break for a word from our sponsor and we're back.

561
00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:28,840
Speaker 1: Thank you sponsor. Well, another trip that I wanted to

562
00:34:28,880 --> 00:34:31,640
Speaker 1: talk about is all I want for Christmas is a man?

563
00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:37,760
Speaker 1: Oh yes, yeah? Um. And I I am someone who's

564
00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:41,320
Speaker 1: not really into romance in movies are in life? I

565
00:34:41,320 --> 00:34:45,400
Speaker 1: don't really like romantic movies. Um, I'm not into romance

566
00:34:45,400 --> 00:34:48,400
Speaker 1: in life. Which were past people updated it has proved

567
00:34:49,360 --> 00:34:53,399
Speaker 1: very difficult for them, but I do. I get really

568
00:34:53,400 --> 00:34:55,640
Speaker 1: tired of seeing this story over and over again. And

569
00:34:55,719 --> 00:34:58,719
Speaker 1: not to mention that I shave at the idea that

570
00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:02,120
Speaker 1: a woman's value you is defined on whether or not

571
00:35:02,200 --> 00:35:07,520
Speaker 1: a man has deemed her valuable. Um. And recently I

572
00:35:07,560 --> 00:35:12,200
Speaker 1: was doing my viewing of that premiere Christmas movie die Hard.

573
00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:17,000
Speaker 1: Much debate about whether it's a Christmas movie, but for

574
00:35:17,040 --> 00:35:21,520
Speaker 1: this will podcast. Let it into the conversation. I was

575
00:35:21,520 --> 00:35:25,640
Speaker 1: a little annoyed at how annoyed Bruce Willis's character John

576
00:35:25,719 --> 00:35:29,600
Speaker 1: McClain was that his wife Holly, which I just got

577
00:35:29,920 --> 00:35:34,680
Speaker 1: doing a research Holly Christmas Holly Um was going by

578
00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:38,359
Speaker 1: her last name now and not his um. They were

579
00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:41,759
Speaker 1: separated and they were heading towards divorce, and how she

580
00:35:41,920 --> 00:35:46,279
Speaker 1: was semi villainized for taking a step up in her

581
00:35:46,360 --> 00:35:49,600
Speaker 1: career and moving the family to l a And I

582
00:35:49,680 --> 00:35:52,239
Speaker 1: might be reading way too much into it, but I

583
00:35:52,640 --> 00:35:57,439
Speaker 1: feel like you're meant to side with John McClean, who

584
00:35:57,480 --> 00:36:00,120
Speaker 1: wanted to stay in New York and do we is

585
00:36:00,239 --> 00:36:04,360
Speaker 1: cup thing as opposed to her, got like this opportunity,

586
00:36:05,080 --> 00:36:09,560
Speaker 1: like a promotion in l a UM and she took it.

587
00:36:09,640 --> 00:36:12,520
Speaker 1: And he even says in there something like I wasn't

588
00:36:12,560 --> 00:36:15,759
Speaker 1: supportive and I should have been. I'm like, yeah, maybe,

589
00:36:16,160 --> 00:36:20,279
Speaker 1: I mean yeah, Well, I mean she's her. She's punished

590
00:36:20,640 --> 00:36:24,240
Speaker 1: for doing that. I mean, the tower gets invaded, Hans

591
00:36:24,320 --> 00:36:28,240
Speaker 1: Gruber is going to kill her. Yeah, I mean she's

592
00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:32,720
Speaker 1: punished for, you know, taking this job, because if she hadn't,

593
00:36:32,719 --> 00:36:37,200
Speaker 1: she wouldn't be in that situation, right, And in the beginning, Um,

594
00:36:37,320 --> 00:36:40,880
Speaker 1: when John arrives at this holiday Christmas party at his

595
00:36:42,719 --> 00:36:49,360
Speaker 1: ex wife separated significant other at her office. Um, this

596
00:36:49,560 --> 00:36:52,880
Speaker 1: jerk that works with Holly kind of immediately it's like

597
00:36:53,400 --> 00:36:56,640
Speaker 1: show him the watch, show him the watch, and she's like, no, no,

598
00:36:56,800 --> 00:36:59,719
Speaker 1: that's okay. Um. And she had received this very nice,

599
00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:05,080
Speaker 1: defensive Rolex watch for doing a good job at work,

600
00:37:05,560 --> 00:37:09,600
Speaker 1: for like helping this deal happen. Um. And I mean

601
00:37:09,800 --> 00:37:13,280
Speaker 1: I wouldn't really want to show off my Rolex watch either.

602
00:37:13,560 --> 00:37:16,719
Speaker 1: That's just not the type of person I know. But

603
00:37:17,800 --> 00:37:21,560
Speaker 1: in the end, UM, and I'm going to issue a

604
00:37:21,600 --> 00:37:23,520
Speaker 1: spoiler alert, but this movie has been out for a while,

605
00:37:23,640 --> 00:37:30,920
Speaker 1: so I've completely spoiled pretty much everyone. Like people couldn't

606
00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:33,160
Speaker 1: figure it out based on all these tropes that we're

607
00:37:33,160 --> 00:37:37,920
Speaker 1: talking about. Um, but Holly is hanging outside of a

608
00:37:37,960 --> 00:37:41,680
Speaker 1: window that's about thirties stories up and Alan Rickman's character,

609
00:37:41,760 --> 00:37:45,319
Speaker 1: Hans Gruber, he is holding onto her like the only

610
00:37:45,360 --> 00:37:47,920
Speaker 1: thing keeping him from falling to his death is by

611
00:37:47,920 --> 00:37:52,360
Speaker 1: holding onto her and her Rolex watch. And the way

612
00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:56,160
Speaker 1: that John saves her is he unbuckles to watch and

613
00:37:56,280 --> 00:38:00,040
Speaker 1: it falls alongside Hans Hans to his death. I'm I

614
00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:03,200
Speaker 1: mean to watch this broke um. Yeah. But then in

615
00:38:03,239 --> 00:38:06,160
Speaker 1: this like happy wrap up moment, Holly clarifies when someone

616
00:38:06,200 --> 00:38:09,879
Speaker 1: asked that her name is Holly McLean, going back to

617
00:38:09,960 --> 00:38:12,640
Speaker 1: her husband's last name, and it read the whole thing

618
00:38:12,680 --> 00:38:16,200
Speaker 1: read to me like she learned her lesson from this

619
00:38:16,320 --> 00:38:21,080
Speaker 1: venture on focusing on her career um, which again I

620
00:38:21,120 --> 00:38:26,160
Speaker 1: can see how it gets twisted of like getting too

621
00:38:26,200 --> 00:38:28,680
Speaker 1: wrapped up in your career, but it didn't feel like that.

622
00:38:28,920 --> 00:38:31,760
Speaker 1: It felt like no, I mean I didn't really see

623
00:38:31,800 --> 00:38:35,600
Speaker 1: like the indications of that from her. I think she

624
00:38:35,680 --> 00:38:39,279
Speaker 1: was truly just punished because she made a decision for

625
00:38:39,320 --> 00:38:43,080
Speaker 1: her family based on her career and not her husband's.

626
00:38:43,480 --> 00:38:47,120
Speaker 1: Is what I ultimately think that sort of dynamic was about,

627
00:38:47,560 --> 00:38:49,920
Speaker 1: because I mean, it wasn't shown that like the kids

628
00:38:49,960 --> 00:38:53,919
Speaker 1: were neglected or anything by her. In fact, I might

629
00:38:53,960 --> 00:38:56,719
Speaker 1: be misremembering, but I feel like she was the primary

630
00:38:56,800 --> 00:39:03,280
Speaker 1: childcare provider anyway. Yeah, been working this like very nice career,

631
00:39:04,360 --> 00:39:07,480
Speaker 1: so I mean, in the interest of the kids, it

632
00:39:07,520 --> 00:39:12,600
Speaker 1: probably was better that they went with her. Yeah, And um,

633
00:39:12,640 --> 00:39:16,360
Speaker 1: I don't we've done an episode before on women um

634
00:39:16,400 --> 00:39:18,919
Speaker 1: taking her husband's last name and all the stuff around

635
00:39:18,920 --> 00:39:21,440
Speaker 1: that if she wants to take kids last name, like,

636
00:39:21,520 --> 00:39:27,440
Speaker 1: I have no problem with that. Um, But it felt

637
00:39:28,400 --> 00:39:34,040
Speaker 1: more like the messaging was she was she was shown

638
00:39:34,200 --> 00:39:38,080
Speaker 1: the air in her ways by putting her and what

639
00:39:38,160 --> 00:39:41,359
Speaker 1: she thought was best for a family first, and so

640
00:39:41,680 --> 00:39:46,720
Speaker 1: was pivoting back to be on John mcclean's side. Um,

641
00:39:47,680 --> 00:39:49,719
Speaker 1: and that and that the whole thing that she's being

642
00:39:49,800 --> 00:39:53,600
Speaker 1: unreasonable for using her her maiden name, which I have

643
00:39:53,640 --> 00:39:55,440
Speaker 1: such a problem with that term, but for her maiden

644
00:39:55,560 --> 00:39:59,640
Speaker 1: name in the first place when they are separated. Yeah,

645
00:40:00,040 --> 00:40:03,200
Speaker 1: Like I think it's it's just another thing where it's

646
00:40:03,239 --> 00:40:08,919
Speaker 1: like John McClain didn't want the divorce, didn't want the separation,

647
00:40:09,040 --> 00:40:12,399
Speaker 1: so how dare she takes steps that he didn't agree with?

648
00:40:14,120 --> 00:40:17,799
Speaker 1: And Um, some people did read the whole watch thing

649
00:40:18,360 --> 00:40:22,160
Speaker 1: as an anti capitalist message, which I think it can

650
00:40:22,200 --> 00:40:25,680
Speaker 1: be both. I mean I could, I could see that,

651
00:40:25,719 --> 00:40:28,320
Speaker 1: but I feel like they they just made such a

652
00:40:28,320 --> 00:40:31,920
Speaker 1: big deal about it. Yeah, you know, I think you

653
00:40:31,960 --> 00:40:35,759
Speaker 1: could interpret it that way. I personally don't really see

654
00:40:35,800 --> 00:40:40,040
Speaker 1: it that way, but you know, to each his own. Um,

655
00:40:40,080 --> 00:40:42,280
Speaker 1: But it is either way, it is very The watch

656
00:40:42,480 --> 00:40:44,719
Speaker 1: is very symbolic and like when he owned buccles it

657
00:40:44,800 --> 00:40:48,560
Speaker 1: at the end, this was I don't watch die Hard

658
00:40:48,600 --> 00:40:51,440
Speaker 1: every year, so it's been a while since I've seen it,

659
00:40:51,840 --> 00:40:53,960
Speaker 1: especially since I think I started working on this show

660
00:40:54,520 --> 00:40:57,040
Speaker 1: and started looking at things more critically. I still liked

661
00:40:57,080 --> 00:41:02,080
Speaker 1: the movie, but I was kind of, oh, oh, I know,

662
00:41:02,160 --> 00:41:03,879
Speaker 1: I feel like that every time we watch a movie

663
00:41:03,880 --> 00:41:05,719
Speaker 1: together and you're just like pointing these things out to me,

664
00:41:05,760 --> 00:41:07,440
Speaker 1: I'm like, I don't think I would have noticed this

665
00:41:08,040 --> 00:41:12,480
Speaker 1: totally right. Yeah, And I've said it before on this show.

666
00:41:13,000 --> 00:41:15,200
Speaker 1: I'll say it again, but I think you can have

667
00:41:15,239 --> 00:41:18,759
Speaker 1: a critical eye towards something and still like it, Like

668
00:41:19,600 --> 00:41:22,360
Speaker 1: I like Diehard. I think we can make better things.

669
00:41:23,120 --> 00:41:25,759
Speaker 1: You know you can. I think it's good to be

670
00:41:25,800 --> 00:41:28,840
Speaker 1: able to pick up on the messaging you see maybe

671
00:41:28,840 --> 00:41:32,319
Speaker 1: you don't even realize. I know, I think that's I mean,

672
00:41:32,360 --> 00:41:34,400
Speaker 1: I've already kind of mentioned and that I don't watch

673
00:41:34,560 --> 00:41:38,040
Speaker 1: nearly as many holiday movies like Hallmark Holiday movies as

674
00:41:38,080 --> 00:41:41,960
Speaker 1: I used to, because you know, it does get annoying

675
00:41:42,000 --> 00:41:45,399
Speaker 1: that women are basically told your career isn't what makes

676
00:41:45,400 --> 00:41:48,560
Speaker 1: you happy, or you know, some of them they've had

677
00:41:48,600 --> 00:41:53,840
Speaker 1: it where a career woman is unhappy with her life

678
00:41:53,880 --> 00:41:56,560
Speaker 1: and she makes a wish and suddenly she's like transported

679
00:41:56,600 --> 00:41:59,960
Speaker 1: back like ten years into the past, like catch the

680
00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:02,120
Speaker 1: one that Got Away. And then you know, at the end,

681
00:42:02,200 --> 00:42:04,760
Speaker 1: she's shown with children, and she's so much more happy

682
00:42:04,800 --> 00:42:07,640
Speaker 1: and fulfilled than she was when she just had her career,

683
00:42:08,560 --> 00:42:11,280
Speaker 1: you know. I mean, so, I don't know if it's

684
00:42:11,040 --> 00:42:14,440
Speaker 1: because I'm more aware of such things or I'm just

685
00:42:14,480 --> 00:42:18,600
Speaker 1: like just the climate we're in politically now or what

686
00:42:18,640 --> 00:42:20,839
Speaker 1: it is, but it's like those things bother me when

687
00:42:20,840 --> 00:42:25,120
Speaker 1: they used to not. Yeah, and like I said, as

688
00:42:25,200 --> 00:42:30,600
Speaker 1: someone who is not into romance, um, I really internalized

689
00:42:30,600 --> 00:42:32,800
Speaker 1: seeing this story play out over and over again that

690
00:42:33,480 --> 00:42:36,640
Speaker 1: to be successful, to be happy, you needed to find

691
00:42:37,040 --> 00:42:40,160
Speaker 1: the man. Because these are all very heterosexual stories we're

692
00:42:40,160 --> 00:42:48,200
Speaker 1: talking about. Yeah, yeah, you know, I think it doesn't

693
00:42:48,239 --> 00:42:51,480
Speaker 1: allow a woman to be happy without a man. I

694
00:42:51,520 --> 00:42:55,440
Speaker 1: completely agree about that. And and a lot of them,

695
00:42:55,480 --> 00:42:58,600
Speaker 1: you know, where the main character has kind of sworn

696
00:42:58,640 --> 00:43:01,920
Speaker 1: off men. She just got out of a bad relationship

697
00:43:02,560 --> 00:43:04,719
Speaker 1: or you know, her parents had a difficult marriage and

698
00:43:04,800 --> 00:43:07,560
Speaker 1: she doesn't want to do that that kind of thing. Well,

699
00:43:07,600 --> 00:43:11,400
Speaker 1: her friends, her little group, are focused on you just

700
00:43:11,480 --> 00:43:15,080
Speaker 1: need to find someone you'll find someone, and so it's

701
00:43:15,080 --> 00:43:17,080
Speaker 1: like you've got the trope of the woman who's not

702
00:43:17,160 --> 00:43:19,640
Speaker 1: looking for it but suddenly finds the love of her life.

703
00:43:20,160 --> 00:43:24,120
Speaker 1: But you also kind of have another trope where this

704
00:43:24,200 --> 00:43:27,439
Speaker 1: woman is so busy looking for it she misses what's

705
00:43:27,520 --> 00:43:29,839
Speaker 1: right in front of her, where it's like her best

706
00:43:29,880 --> 00:43:33,600
Speaker 1: friend or you know, a new acquaintance, where she's she's

707
00:43:33,600 --> 00:43:36,400
Speaker 1: seen some man that she's just like instantly attracted to,

708
00:43:36,560 --> 00:43:39,480
Speaker 1: and so she doesn't see the other guy that's ultimately

709
00:43:39,520 --> 00:43:41,600
Speaker 1: better for her and they're going to wind up together.

710
00:43:42,239 --> 00:43:45,600
Speaker 1: So yeah, I mean, it's it's not like a single

711
00:43:45,680 --> 00:43:51,239
Speaker 1: lady's finding happiness in their own life. No, And I

712
00:43:51,280 --> 00:43:54,680
Speaker 1: hadn't realized until working on this show how much I

713
00:43:54,719 --> 00:43:59,480
Speaker 1: internalized the messaging that you are incomplete. You cannot be

714
00:43:59,520 --> 00:44:07,359
Speaker 1: happy until you accomplish this family unit. Yes, I mean

715
00:44:08,280 --> 00:44:11,000
Speaker 1: I think that that that messaging shows up in so

716
00:44:11,040 --> 00:44:14,560
Speaker 1: many other places, and I think that's why I, like

717
00:44:14,600 --> 00:44:17,960
Speaker 1: I said, I didn't notice it for so long, but yeah,

718
00:44:18,080 --> 00:44:20,279
Speaker 1: and then I started seeing it. I'm just like, oh,

719
00:44:20,480 --> 00:44:22,040
Speaker 1: I don't want to I don't want to have another

720
00:44:22,120 --> 00:44:26,960
Speaker 1: movie where someone who is probably seems happy at the

721
00:44:26,960 --> 00:44:29,280
Speaker 1: beginning of the movie. At least, the career driven woman

722
00:44:29,480 --> 00:44:33,200
Speaker 1: typically is you know, stressed out but like living her

723
00:44:33,239 --> 00:44:36,720
Speaker 1: life and then to just say, oh, now I found

724
00:44:36,719 --> 00:44:39,200
Speaker 1: this man, and she always finds a man, like she

725
00:44:39,280 --> 00:44:41,319
Speaker 1: might fall in love with the small town she's in

726
00:44:41,400 --> 00:44:46,280
Speaker 1: as well and all the people, but without that romantic component,

727
00:44:46,880 --> 00:44:49,520
Speaker 1: she probably wouldn't stay because you know, the end scene

728
00:44:49,600 --> 00:44:52,680
Speaker 1: is typically of them realizing that she's going to stay,

729
00:44:52,800 --> 00:44:57,440
Speaker 1: and then they're kissing, and you know it culminates with them,

730
00:44:57,480 --> 00:45:03,120
Speaker 1: you know, sealing the fact that they're in a relationship. Yeah. Yeah,

731
00:45:04,480 --> 00:45:10,120
Speaker 1: And it's just I read a lot of accounts of people,

732
00:45:10,680 --> 00:45:14,480
Speaker 1: um who we were talking about what how difficult it

733
00:45:14,560 --> 00:45:19,160
Speaker 1: can be during the holidays if you are single. Yeah,

734
00:45:19,560 --> 00:45:22,520
Speaker 1: and um yeah for me for a long time, my

735
00:45:22,640 --> 00:45:25,000
Speaker 1: family is mostly given up. But it was always this

736
00:45:25,120 --> 00:45:27,839
Speaker 1: question of when are you going to settle down? That's

737
00:45:27,880 --> 00:45:31,919
Speaker 1: what people are asking to Like your your time is running, Yeah,

738
00:45:31,960 --> 00:45:37,000
Speaker 1: that old biological kicking, um, like you've had your fun,

739
00:45:37,200 --> 00:45:40,920
Speaker 1: but you're it's time for you. Like I've literally had

740
00:45:40,960 --> 00:45:42,399
Speaker 1: it put that way to me before, Like you've had

741
00:45:42,440 --> 00:45:44,919
Speaker 1: your fun times, you need to settle down, As if

742
00:45:45,040 --> 00:45:49,279
Speaker 1: getting married and having kids is not being fun at all. Yeah,

743
00:45:50,040 --> 00:45:53,080
Speaker 1: I know. And it's like that pressure is place more

744
00:45:53,080 --> 00:45:55,360
Speaker 1: on women than on men. I mean, there are the

745
00:45:55,400 --> 00:45:58,960
Speaker 1: elements in some holiday movies where it's like the playboy

746
00:45:59,160 --> 00:46:02,360
Speaker 1: rich guy who meets the right woman and decides he

747
00:46:02,560 --> 00:46:05,359
Speaker 1: is a wants to be committed, there's more to life

748
00:46:05,400 --> 00:46:08,680
Speaker 1: than partying, that kind of thing. But you know, I

749
00:46:08,719 --> 00:46:15,200
Speaker 1: mean the onus is generally on women, like you just

750
00:46:15,239 --> 00:46:18,200
Speaker 1: care too much about your career. You don't have time

751
00:46:18,239 --> 00:46:21,439
Speaker 1: for kids with your career, you don't make time for men.

752
00:46:21,760 --> 00:46:22,960
Speaker 1: How do you think you're ever going to be in

753
00:46:22,960 --> 00:46:26,600
Speaker 1: a relationship, And not to say that like there isn't

754
00:46:26,600 --> 00:46:28,799
Speaker 1: a balancing act, like when you've got a job and

755
00:46:28,840 --> 00:46:31,160
Speaker 1: you're in a relationship. I mean, of course those issues

756
00:46:31,200 --> 00:46:36,360
Speaker 1: are going to come up, but it's demonized. It's demonized

757
00:46:36,400 --> 00:46:39,840
Speaker 1: so much, and that that's very frustrating as a woman

758
00:46:39,880 --> 00:46:43,160
Speaker 1: watching it and you're just like, and generally the woman

759
00:46:43,239 --> 00:46:46,920
Speaker 1: is the one making the sacrifices for people to be together.

760
00:46:47,920 --> 00:46:52,520
Speaker 1: You know, career woman comes to the small town, saves something. Well,

761
00:46:53,239 --> 00:46:55,280
Speaker 1: holiday hunk isn't moving to the back to the city

762
00:46:55,280 --> 00:46:57,680
Speaker 1: with her. You know, she is going to stay in

763
00:46:57,680 --> 00:47:00,200
Speaker 1: a small town they're not. There's not discussions of how

764
00:47:00,239 --> 00:47:02,359
Speaker 1: are we going to split our time between the city

765
00:47:02,360 --> 00:47:04,920
Speaker 1: for my career and then the small town for your

766
00:47:05,160 --> 00:47:08,520
Speaker 1: for like the idealized life we're going to have here.

767
00:47:08,560 --> 00:47:13,279
Speaker 1: You know, it's she's making the sacrifices. Yeah. Um. And

768
00:47:13,320 --> 00:47:16,719
Speaker 1: again this isn't limited at all by any means to

769
00:47:16,920 --> 00:47:19,839
Speaker 1: holiday movies. I was thinking of like Gone Girl when

770
00:47:19,840 --> 00:47:22,360
Speaker 1: she gets so frustrated because they have to move back

771
00:47:22,400 --> 00:47:26,279
Speaker 1: to this like tiny town, small town in Missouri, a

772
00:47:26,400 --> 00:47:30,080
Speaker 1: small world town. Yeah. And again like if that's for you,

773
00:47:30,280 --> 00:47:32,520
Speaker 1: that's for you. But just to like it is a

774
00:47:32,560 --> 00:47:34,560
Speaker 1: big change. And if you're used to the city, if

775
00:47:34,640 --> 00:47:37,640
Speaker 1: you like the city, um, it's not always like you

776
00:47:37,680 --> 00:47:42,200
Speaker 1: go to a small town and oh um yeah. I

777
00:47:42,239 --> 00:47:44,560
Speaker 1: mean it's like you know, as I said, with both

778
00:47:44,600 --> 00:47:47,040
Speaker 1: of us being from small towns, I mean there's there's

779
00:47:47,080 --> 00:47:49,759
Speaker 1: things in cities that you like. I mean, variety of food.

780
00:47:49,920 --> 00:47:52,879
Speaker 1: I like Uber and Lift, not none of that where

781
00:47:52,880 --> 00:47:57,400
Speaker 1: I'm from. Delivery at three am. Yeah. I was like

782
00:47:58,560 --> 00:48:00,719
Speaker 1: when I was living in Chicago and I was like,

783
00:48:01,120 --> 00:48:04,920
Speaker 1: they're going to bring me a giant pizza to my door? Yeah,

784
00:48:05,000 --> 00:48:06,520
Speaker 1: And I was like, this is one of the most

785
00:48:06,520 --> 00:48:09,080
Speaker 1: amazing things that's ever happened to me. Not that you

786
00:48:09,120 --> 00:48:11,160
Speaker 1: can't get pizza delivered in my hometown, but I mean

787
00:48:11,200 --> 00:48:17,840
Speaker 1: it was deep dish, just tons of cheese deliciousness. So yeah,

788
00:48:17,960 --> 00:48:23,280
Speaker 1: and I do um when I go and visit my hometown.

789
00:48:23,320 --> 00:48:25,920
Speaker 1: There are things that I love about it too. Um.

790
00:48:26,680 --> 00:48:30,720
Speaker 1: I think it's more just that the kind of broad

791
00:48:30,880 --> 00:48:35,040
Speaker 1: broad strokes of this one is clearly the better one.

792
00:48:35,520 --> 00:48:37,720
Speaker 1: I think that's what I have a problem with. Yeah,

793
00:48:37,760 --> 00:48:39,360
Speaker 1: I mean, and that is one of the things that

794
00:48:39,440 --> 00:48:42,960
Speaker 1: I really did want to talk about, is like the

795
00:48:43,320 --> 00:48:47,360
Speaker 1: in the idealization of the small town, there aren't a

796
00:48:47,360 --> 00:48:52,440
Speaker 1: lot of people of color. There's very little LGBTQ representation,

797
00:48:52,560 --> 00:48:56,319
Speaker 1: if any, I mean, and typically if there is, you know,

798
00:48:56,600 --> 00:49:01,640
Speaker 1: a queer character, they don't have her relationship. They're they're

799
00:49:01,719 --> 00:49:04,240
Speaker 1: very one dimensional. They're here to help you get dressed,

800
00:49:04,920 --> 00:49:07,879
Speaker 1: you know, they're not They're not full fledged characters, which

801
00:49:07,880 --> 00:49:10,239
Speaker 1: means you can say that for almost any character in

802
00:49:10,280 --> 00:49:14,480
Speaker 1: a holiday movie. But it's just even more glaring. And

803
00:49:15,120 --> 00:49:18,400
Speaker 1: you know, for years and years and years on Hallmark

804
00:49:18,760 --> 00:49:21,759
Speaker 1: there was not a single movie where any of the

805
00:49:21,760 --> 00:49:28,440
Speaker 1: main like romantic characters were people of color. Yeah, and

806
00:49:28,480 --> 00:49:31,399
Speaker 1: I think you said now that there's like one out

807
00:49:31,440 --> 00:49:35,200
Speaker 1: of their twenty two this year actually has people of color.

808
00:49:35,320 --> 00:49:39,680
Speaker 1: And it's like I watched an ion Um television movie

809
00:49:39,719 --> 00:49:43,359
Speaker 1: the other day that actually had an interracial couple. Yeah,

810
00:49:43,400 --> 00:49:45,719
Speaker 1: and so I was like, actually kind of surprised to

811
00:49:45,800 --> 00:49:49,440
Speaker 1: see that. I mean pleasantly surprised. Um, but because you

812
00:49:49,520 --> 00:49:52,160
Speaker 1: just you don't see those things. And you know, I

813
00:49:52,200 --> 00:49:55,480
Speaker 1: have not seen any holiday movies where the main romantic

814
00:49:55,560 --> 00:49:59,560
Speaker 1: characters are queer. Yeah, and I would love to see

815
00:49:59,560 --> 00:50:02,520
Speaker 1: I would would be so refreshing. Yeah, I mean, and

816
00:50:03,440 --> 00:50:05,279
Speaker 1: there I think there's like a lot of people who

817
00:50:05,280 --> 00:50:08,800
Speaker 1: would want to watch that movie, just maybe not Hallmarks

818
00:50:08,800 --> 00:50:11,719
Speaker 1: target audience. You know. So maybe this is a place

819
00:50:11,719 --> 00:50:17,240
Speaker 1: where Netflix and places like that can you know, bring

820
00:50:17,360 --> 00:50:22,239
Speaker 1: some differences to these rather formulaic movies. Yeah, they can

821
00:50:22,320 --> 00:50:24,600
Speaker 1: lead the way, but I'd love to see like Hallmark

822
00:50:24,719 --> 00:50:28,359
Speaker 1: slowly because then the target audience who might not be

823
00:50:28,440 --> 00:50:30,760
Speaker 1: used to seeing these things, it might be a little

824
00:50:31,520 --> 00:50:36,200
Speaker 1: um not on board with them saying yeah, yeah, Hallmark

825
00:50:36,480 --> 00:50:39,160
Speaker 1: is changing. And the fact that a lot of the

826
00:50:39,360 --> 00:50:42,719
Speaker 1: secondary characters, well not a lot, but more than they're

827
00:50:42,800 --> 00:50:45,560
Speaker 1: used to be, and a lot of the like background

828
00:50:45,600 --> 00:50:48,680
Speaker 1: characters at the scene of this lodge or whatever are

829
00:50:48,800 --> 00:50:51,480
Speaker 1: people of color. But you almost get the sense that

830
00:50:51,520 --> 00:50:54,120
Speaker 1: maybe it's tokenism because it's like they know, it's like, oh,

831
00:50:54,120 --> 00:50:56,120
Speaker 1: we gotta put a black person in here, because they're

832
00:50:56,160 --> 00:50:58,480
Speaker 1: going to accuse us of being a racist. Like, well,

833
00:50:58,680 --> 00:51:02,439
Speaker 1: you've had like ten plus years of just only white

834
00:51:02,440 --> 00:51:06,319
Speaker 1: people in your movies though in your many, many, many movies. Yes,

835
00:51:06,400 --> 00:51:09,640
Speaker 1: I mean it's not like they're lacking opportunities to hire people.

836
00:51:10,360 --> 00:51:13,600
Speaker 1: Like I said, twenty two new movies this season alone,

837
00:51:13,760 --> 00:51:18,040
Speaker 1: they started October. They yeah, they were ready to go.

838
00:51:19,360 --> 00:51:22,560
Speaker 1: Alloween did not even happen yet. No, they're on the

839
00:51:22,640 --> 00:51:26,080
Speaker 1: Christmas Train, which I'm sure is of a Christmas movie,

840
00:51:26,120 --> 00:51:31,319
Speaker 1: The Christmas Train. It was the World. Their signature or

841
00:51:31,520 --> 00:51:33,960
Speaker 1: featured Hallmark movie of the season last year was The

842
00:51:34,040 --> 00:51:38,400
Speaker 1: Christmas Train. There you go. There's a movie for everything. Yes,

843
00:51:38,920 --> 00:51:47,440
Speaker 1: starring Danny Glover, Dermott mulroney, um Joan Cusack. Interesting cast. Yeah,

844
00:51:47,480 --> 00:51:49,480
Speaker 1: I mean they put their big books into their life

845
00:51:49,560 --> 00:51:59,000
Speaker 1: signature feature movies. Yes, and Kimberly Paisley I think. Anyway, Yeah,

846
00:51:59,280 --> 00:52:02,200
Speaker 1: they got some disable people in these In this movie.

847
00:52:02,239 --> 00:52:04,120
Speaker 1: I was like, oh my goodness, it was not a

848
00:52:04,160 --> 00:52:07,319
Speaker 1: good movie. I watched it. It was not great, but

849
00:52:07,360 --> 00:52:09,400
Speaker 1: there was a train and it was Christmas time, so

850
00:52:09,480 --> 00:52:11,400
Speaker 1: I guess I can't be too upset. The title was

851
00:52:11,560 --> 00:52:15,799
Speaker 1: very specific. It was spot on in this case, um

852
00:52:16,480 --> 00:52:18,480
Speaker 1: to bring it back to your die hard before we

853
00:52:18,520 --> 00:52:22,839
Speaker 1: move on. It was interesting because that movie takes place

854
00:52:22,880 --> 00:52:27,040
Speaker 1: in the early nineties, and um, it does have people

855
00:52:27,080 --> 00:52:30,440
Speaker 1: of color in it, but they feel very caricatured and

856
00:52:30,480 --> 00:52:33,279
Speaker 1: like it's playing on stereotypes of her boss is like

857
00:52:34,800 --> 00:52:39,680
Speaker 1: Mr Not could tell me, I think Japanese businessman. Japanese businessman, um,

858
00:52:39,760 --> 00:52:43,239
Speaker 1: which offense to Japanese businessman? Get it? But no, but

859
00:52:43,440 --> 00:52:48,640
Speaker 1: it felt very like one dimensional, not thought out. Died

860
00:52:48,760 --> 00:52:52,759
Speaker 1: very early in the movie too, did pretty violently if

861
00:52:52,760 --> 00:52:57,399
Speaker 1: I recall correctly. Yeah, yeah, for sure. Um. And then

862
00:52:57,440 --> 00:53:02,560
Speaker 1: there's so Holly as a nanny to take care of

863
00:53:02,560 --> 00:53:06,160
Speaker 1: her kids, and she's Hispanic, and of course she's undocumented.

864
00:53:06,239 --> 00:53:09,000
Speaker 1: That's a whole plot point in the movie. And then

865
00:53:09,080 --> 00:53:15,359
Speaker 1: there's two black characters, and yeah, they just feel kind

866
00:53:15,400 --> 00:53:17,120
Speaker 1: of like they're playing on stereotypes. I will say the

867
00:53:17,200 --> 00:53:21,359
Speaker 1: one that's played by Fred Winslow from Family matters. Yeah,

868
00:53:21,400 --> 00:53:22,920
Speaker 1: I was like I say, I'm like I liked his

869
00:53:23,000 --> 00:53:26,360
Speaker 1: character because he was like the smartest cop on the ground.

870
00:53:26,560 --> 00:53:29,799
Speaker 1: Nobody would listen to him, I know, and that and

871
00:53:30,000 --> 00:53:32,399
Speaker 1: like maybe that is also something to do with his race.

872
00:53:32,560 --> 00:53:35,000
Speaker 1: I don't know, but I'm like he was the only

873
00:53:35,000 --> 00:53:38,040
Speaker 1: one that knew what was going on. Yeah. Um, but

874
00:53:38,120 --> 00:53:40,800
Speaker 1: his and this this could honestly be a critic of

875
00:53:40,840 --> 00:53:43,319
Speaker 1: the whole movie, but his story did feel very like

876
00:53:44,400 --> 00:53:46,960
Speaker 1: not as fleshed out as it could have been. It

877
00:53:47,040 --> 00:53:52,600
Speaker 1: felt very what's the word, not trite, but like, what's

878
00:53:52,640 --> 00:53:55,520
Speaker 1: the thing that we can play with the heart strings? Oh?

879
00:53:55,640 --> 00:54:01,960
Speaker 1: This I don't know, um, but it This is definitely

880
00:54:02,000 --> 00:54:05,840
Speaker 1: an area where all of our entertainment could improve, but

881
00:54:05,960 --> 00:54:09,440
Speaker 1: especially it seems especially apparent in the holiday movie genre.

882
00:54:09,960 --> 00:54:15,680
Speaker 1: There is like I would say, particularly Hallmark, like Lifetime

883
00:54:15,719 --> 00:54:18,440
Speaker 1: and I on television are a little bit more adventurous.

884
00:54:19,280 --> 00:54:21,560
Speaker 1: I don't know if I you should even call that adventurous,

885
00:54:21,600 --> 00:54:25,279
Speaker 1: but like they're not just playing white you know. It's

886
00:54:25,320 --> 00:54:28,880
Speaker 1: like they have interracial movies or movies that feature like

887
00:54:28,960 --> 00:54:31,479
Speaker 1: black cast, which is which is really great to see.

888
00:54:31,520 --> 00:54:34,640
Speaker 1: I I enjoy those movies as much as I enjoy

889
00:54:34,680 --> 00:54:36,560
Speaker 1: any holiday movie. I mean, I don't. I don't think

890
00:54:36,560 --> 00:54:39,200
Speaker 1: it's a big deal, but I I you know, I

891
00:54:39,239 --> 00:54:42,200
Speaker 1: do think it would be nice if, you know, Hallmark

892
00:54:42,760 --> 00:54:49,799
Speaker 1: normalized some things, yes, um, particularly like I'm imagine their

893
00:54:49,840 --> 00:54:52,640
Speaker 1: audiences at least based on the commercials that I see,

894
00:54:53,160 --> 00:54:56,000
Speaker 1: a lot of them have dogs and heart problems because

895
00:54:56,040 --> 00:54:59,319
Speaker 1: they're always like, get this product for your dog or

896
00:55:00,080 --> 00:55:02,680
Speaker 1: thing for your heart, and so you're like, it's a

897
00:55:02,680 --> 00:55:05,960
Speaker 1: little maybe I'm stereotyping, but that's what their their commercials

898
00:55:06,000 --> 00:55:10,680
Speaker 1: leads me to believe. So they're older, probably more conservative people.

899
00:55:11,840 --> 00:55:14,800
Speaker 1: And I do think, like you know, just seeing things

900
00:55:14,880 --> 00:55:19,279
Speaker 1: in media and normalizing them is a big part of change,

901
00:55:19,640 --> 00:55:23,680
Speaker 1: you know. And I would like for these, you know,

902
00:55:23,760 --> 00:55:27,440
Speaker 1: movies to be more on the forefront than the afterthought

903
00:55:27,480 --> 00:55:30,000
Speaker 1: where they're like, oh yeah, more people are okay with

904
00:55:30,040 --> 00:55:32,600
Speaker 1: like black people in their holiday movies. I guess we'll

905
00:55:32,600 --> 00:55:35,359
Speaker 1: throw a few in, like, you know, like make the

906
00:55:35,440 --> 00:55:39,279
Speaker 1: effort to show things how they are, not because you

907
00:55:39,280 --> 00:55:41,800
Speaker 1: feel pressure from someone being like why is everybody white?

908
00:55:41,960 --> 00:55:46,120
Speaker 1: But because you want to show these things. Yeah, and

909
00:55:46,360 --> 00:55:51,200
Speaker 1: just for having reflect life, yeah, and a new story,

910
00:55:51,719 --> 00:55:57,839
Speaker 1: different thing, something new. Um. Before we move on some

911
00:55:58,120 --> 00:56:02,960
Speaker 1: Rudolph the Red Nose Reindeer. Um. Okay, So this film

912
00:56:03,120 --> 00:56:06,000
Speaker 1: that the puppet one was recently named the most popular

913
00:56:06,080 --> 00:56:08,600
Speaker 1: Christmas movie, and it was also called out as sexist,

914
00:56:09,000 --> 00:56:12,000
Speaker 1: and the conservatives were like, look what the liberals are

915
00:56:12,120 --> 00:56:15,120
Speaker 1: ruining now. And I will say, I watched this like

916
00:56:15,160 --> 00:56:17,360
Speaker 1: a couple of nights ago. I think it's totally sexist.

917
00:56:17,680 --> 00:56:21,160
Speaker 1: But it is very sex It's very sexist, but in

918
00:56:21,160 --> 00:56:26,200
Speaker 1: a way that I can mostly ignore or excuse for

919
00:56:26,320 --> 00:56:28,640
Speaker 1: the time. And I mean it was always it's always

920
00:56:28,640 --> 00:56:33,719
Speaker 1: beneficial to like have a conversation with children about the

921
00:56:33,920 --> 00:56:37,880
Speaker 1: entertainment Um they're they're consuming. I think that's where the

922
00:56:37,880 --> 00:56:42,960
Speaker 1: problem comes in. Um. But to me it was kind

923
00:56:42,960 --> 00:56:48,920
Speaker 1: of like, yeah, sexist, um. And I the thing that

924
00:56:49,000 --> 00:56:52,279
Speaker 1: really stood out more was how terrible people were to

925
00:56:52,400 --> 00:56:54,960
Speaker 1: him to route off. I know, I'm like, Santa is

926
00:56:55,120 --> 00:56:59,520
Speaker 1: evil in that movie. I'm like, he's he's racist. Yeah,

927
00:56:59,640 --> 00:57:01,359
Speaker 1: he's like, what's wrong with you? What's wrong with your face?

928
00:57:01,400 --> 00:57:03,200
Speaker 1: I did cover that up? I know. It's like and

929
00:57:03,239 --> 00:57:05,600
Speaker 1: it's like, how dare his father like bring him out?

930
00:57:05,640 --> 00:57:08,560
Speaker 1: Why isn't his father ashamed of him? He should be

931
00:57:08,600 --> 00:57:12,040
Speaker 1: ashamed of him, and you're just like, Santa is supposed

932
00:57:12,080 --> 00:57:15,000
Speaker 1: to be nice, but he's really he's really not at

933
00:57:15,040 --> 00:57:17,200
Speaker 1: all in that movie. And then I noticed even when

934
00:57:17,240 --> 00:57:18,840
Speaker 1: I was a kid, I was like, Santa, it's a

935
00:57:18,920 --> 00:57:27,200
Speaker 1: jerk to root off, like you should crash that sleig. Um. Yeah,

936
00:57:27,400 --> 00:57:32,720
Speaker 1: I mean I'm always a proponent of media literacy, knowing

937
00:57:32,720 --> 00:57:34,960
Speaker 1: the messages in your in the media you consume, and

938
00:57:35,080 --> 00:57:37,360
Speaker 1: especially at a young age, because we do internalize that

939
00:57:37,360 --> 00:57:40,760
Speaker 1: stuff very young. Yeah, and I definitely think that, Like,

940
00:57:40,880 --> 00:57:44,680
Speaker 1: you know, parents just want to put like a movie

941
00:57:44,680 --> 00:57:46,720
Speaker 1: on for their kids at the holidays, and it's like

942
00:57:46,760 --> 00:57:48,480
Speaker 1: I watched this when I was a kid, but you know,

943
00:57:48,680 --> 00:57:51,880
Speaker 1: give those things a rewatch. You're going to pick up

944
00:57:51,880 --> 00:57:54,680
Speaker 1: on a lot of things you don't remember, and you know,

945
00:57:54,840 --> 00:57:57,600
Speaker 1: maybe it isn't exactly what you want your kid to see,

946
00:57:57,680 --> 00:57:58,960
Speaker 1: or you do want them to see it, but you

947
00:57:59,000 --> 00:58:01,600
Speaker 1: want to talk to them about on it. Yes, yes,

948
00:58:02,200 --> 00:58:04,840
Speaker 1: I think that is great bro watching children's movies just

949
00:58:04,920 --> 00:58:08,640
Speaker 1: in general, but do it with a purpose. Yeah, yes,

950
00:58:08,760 --> 00:58:13,200
Speaker 1: be responsible in your viewership. Um. So we have a

951
00:58:13,240 --> 00:58:15,040
Speaker 1: little bit more for you, But first we have a

952
00:58:15,120 --> 00:58:28,560
Speaker 1: quick break for word from our sponsor M and we're back,

953
00:58:28,600 --> 00:58:31,280
Speaker 1: Thank you sponsor, and we're back with a brief thing

954
00:58:31,320 --> 00:58:35,919
Speaker 1: about Christmas songs, holiday songs, and there is one really

955
00:58:35,960 --> 00:58:37,720
Speaker 1: big one we have to talk about, and that is

956
00:58:37,760 --> 00:58:40,760
Speaker 1: Baby It's Cold Outside. Babe It's Cold Outside is a

957
00:58:40,800 --> 00:58:45,040
Speaker 1: song written by Frank loser In and it was a

958
00:58:45,040 --> 00:58:49,000
Speaker 1: parlor act he performed with his wife Lynn Garland. It

959
00:58:49,120 --> 00:58:52,800
Speaker 1: won an Academy Award in after Frank sold the rights

960
00:58:52,840 --> 00:58:55,000
Speaker 1: to MGM, much to Land's horror. It sounds like he

961
00:58:55,040 --> 00:58:57,800
Speaker 1: didn't really consult her about it, and it was featured

962
00:58:57,840 --> 00:59:02,640
Speaker 1: in the film Neptunes Otter. Though there's no direct mention

963
00:59:02,720 --> 00:59:05,160
Speaker 1: of Christmas and the lyrics, it has become associated with

964
00:59:05,200 --> 00:59:09,080
Speaker 1: the holiday because it's all about winter and staying warm

965
00:59:09,320 --> 00:59:15,000
Speaker 1: or is it um So. It's a duet popularly sung

966
00:59:15,120 --> 00:59:17,120
Speaker 1: by a man and a woman in a call and

967
00:59:17,240 --> 00:59:19,760
Speaker 1: response form where the man is attempting to convince the

968
00:59:19,800 --> 00:59:22,920
Speaker 1: woman to stay at his house instead of going home,

969
00:59:23,280 --> 00:59:25,160
Speaker 1: and she's like getting ready to leave. He's trying to

970
00:59:25,160 --> 00:59:27,960
Speaker 1: get her to stay. And in the score, the male

971
00:59:28,040 --> 00:59:30,320
Speaker 1: part or the part that's typically played by the male

972
00:59:30,920 --> 00:59:33,800
Speaker 1: is labeled wolf and the female part of the part

973
00:59:33,800 --> 00:59:37,040
Speaker 1: that's typically played by the female is labeled mouse, and

974
00:59:37,200 --> 00:59:43,520
Speaker 1: it's really hard to ignore the predator pray aspect of that. Um.

975
00:59:43,640 --> 00:59:48,720
Speaker 1: And it has become a lightning rod for controversy due

976
00:59:48,760 --> 00:59:51,600
Speaker 1: to the lyrics like this one where the mouse asked,

977
00:59:52,000 --> 00:59:57,040
Speaker 1: say what's in this drink? Yeah, and the wolf's unrelenting

978
00:59:57,080 --> 00:59:59,560
Speaker 1: pressure and unwillingness to take no for an answer. I

979
00:59:59,560 --> 01:00:01,400
Speaker 1: know people have counted how many times she says no

980
01:00:01,480 --> 01:00:04,439
Speaker 1: and he keeps saying, come on, don't embarrass me, don't

981
01:00:04,480 --> 01:00:10,040
Speaker 1: hurt my pride, like please. Yeah. Um, And by today's standards,

982
01:00:10,080 --> 01:00:14,400
Speaker 1: the whole thing does feel very date rapeated. It's hard,

983
01:00:14,680 --> 01:00:16,120
Speaker 1: at least for me, and I think for a lot

984
01:00:16,120 --> 01:00:19,040
Speaker 1: of people not to hear that. Yeah. Like when I

985
01:00:19,120 --> 01:00:21,040
Speaker 1: when I listened to the lyrics or I saw them

986
01:00:21,080 --> 01:00:23,320
Speaker 1: written out I think a few years ago, and I

987
01:00:23,360 --> 01:00:25,600
Speaker 1: was like, oh my god, I've listened to this so

988
01:00:25,640 --> 01:00:29,720
Speaker 1: many times just because you know, inescapable. Yeah, but it's like, yeah,

989
01:00:29,800 --> 01:00:31,960
Speaker 1: would you would you really start paying attention? You're like,

990
01:00:32,400 --> 01:00:36,000
Speaker 1: oh my goodness, like this woman might be in danger? Yeah,

991
01:00:36,800 --> 01:00:39,640
Speaker 1: kind of menacing, I know. It's like, actually she is

992
01:00:39,680 --> 01:00:44,400
Speaker 1: in danger? Is the modern ear? Here's that? Yeah? For sure? Yeah?

993
01:00:44,440 --> 01:00:48,920
Speaker 1: And um, for what it's worth. In Neptune's Daughter, the

994
01:00:48,960 --> 01:00:51,120
Speaker 1: movie that it was featured in, the song was performed

995
01:00:51,120 --> 01:00:56,800
Speaker 1: twice and it swapped the gender roles. Some feminists and

996
01:00:56,840 --> 01:00:59,320
Speaker 1: scholars have come to defense of the song, saying that

997
01:00:59,800 --> 01:01:02,520
Speaker 1: we need to consider the historical and cultural context and

998
01:01:02,560 --> 01:01:04,800
Speaker 1: the time it was written, and they note that all

999
01:01:04,880 --> 01:01:07,960
Speaker 1: of the mouse's excuses are based on other people. What

1000
01:01:08,080 --> 01:01:10,520
Speaker 1: will her and again it's mostly a woman, but does

1001
01:01:10,600 --> 01:01:13,000
Speaker 1: it doesn't specify that has to be um? But what

1002
01:01:13,160 --> 01:01:16,280
Speaker 1: will her mother, father, brother, neighbors think? And that she

1003
01:01:16,480 --> 01:01:19,440
Speaker 1: truly does want to say the night and she's looking

1004
01:01:19,520 --> 01:01:23,160
Speaker 1: for an excuse to say the night? And a professor

1005
01:01:23,320 --> 01:01:26,520
Speaker 1: at the University of Massachusetts Boston wrote about the song

1006
01:01:26,600 --> 01:01:28,560
Speaker 1: and points out that at the time it was written

1007
01:01:28,920 --> 01:01:32,160
Speaker 1: to World War two, social norms were changing rapidly and

1008
01:01:32,160 --> 01:01:37,439
Speaker 1: women were experiencing more sexual freedom, and in that context, yeah,

1009
01:01:37,680 --> 01:01:40,280
Speaker 1: I I suppose you could read it that way. According

1010
01:01:40,320 --> 01:01:43,200
Speaker 1: to music historian Thomas Reeves, when the song came out,

1011
01:01:43,320 --> 01:01:45,640
Speaker 1: it was scandalous for a woman to be alone with

1012
01:01:45,680 --> 01:01:49,240
Speaker 1: a man drinking, and her primary concern would be being

1013
01:01:49,320 --> 01:01:52,400
Speaker 1: judged by those around her and her reputation getting ruined.

1014
01:01:52,440 --> 01:01:56,520
Speaker 1: Perhaps being able to say it wasn't safe for me

1015
01:01:56,560 --> 01:01:58,760
Speaker 1: to drive because there wasn't really taxis or a lift

1016
01:01:58,800 --> 01:02:03,040
Speaker 1: back then would be a way that she could protect reputation.

1017
01:02:03,720 --> 01:02:08,640
Speaker 1: And I get that, but sure not. It is dangerously

1018
01:02:08,720 --> 01:02:14,640
Speaker 1: close to rape culture. No means yes. Yeah, I completely agree,

1019
01:02:15,440 --> 01:02:18,360
Speaker 1: and that is why it's uncomfortable. And it's like, clearly

1020
01:02:18,360 --> 01:02:21,240
Speaker 1: our society is still struggling with that what does no mean?

1021
01:02:21,600 --> 01:02:23,760
Speaker 1: I mean as a woman, where like no means no

1022
01:02:24,040 --> 01:02:28,360
Speaker 1: means no, but there's there's confusion. I use heavy quotes,

1023
01:02:29,080 --> 01:02:33,000
Speaker 1: and it's like we were saying, if you're going to

1024
01:02:33,080 --> 01:02:36,440
Speaker 1: like let your kids listen to this song, you need

1025
01:02:36,480 --> 01:02:40,560
Speaker 1: to explain this. Yeah, and you need to explain to

1026
01:02:40,600 --> 01:02:44,800
Speaker 1: them like no means no, like boys and girls, because

1027
01:02:45,000 --> 01:02:48,320
Speaker 1: you don't end rape culture with only one gender learning.

1028
01:02:48,880 --> 01:02:53,320
Speaker 1: Everybody needs to learn. And it's like, you know, if

1029
01:02:53,400 --> 01:02:57,560
Speaker 1: you find the song uncomfortable, I completely understand why if

1030
01:02:57,560 --> 01:02:59,640
Speaker 1: you want to keep listening to it and knowing the

1031
01:02:59,680 --> 01:03:04,439
Speaker 1: con text because context is very important, good for you,

1032
01:03:04,440 --> 01:03:07,320
Speaker 1: you know, But I mean, it shouldn't just be something

1033
01:03:07,360 --> 01:03:09,680
Speaker 1: that we just listened to because it's it's been on

1034
01:03:09,720 --> 01:03:12,840
Speaker 1: the radio for like our whole lives. You know, it's

1035
01:03:14,320 --> 01:03:18,120
Speaker 1: it's representative of a lot of things, Like I said

1036
01:03:18,120 --> 01:03:22,120
Speaker 1: that our culture is still really struggling with and you

1037
01:03:22,160 --> 01:03:26,680
Speaker 1: know at that kind of attitude also shows up in

1038
01:03:26,720 --> 01:03:29,520
Speaker 1: a lot of Hallmark movies, to be honest, where it's

1039
01:03:29,560 --> 01:03:32,920
Speaker 1: like the male and female characters hate each other, but

1040
01:03:32,960 --> 01:03:36,200
Speaker 1: then they're slowly thrown together by circumstances and like he

1041
01:03:36,240 --> 01:03:39,480
Speaker 1: wears her down or something like that, and it's like that,

1042
01:03:39,480 --> 01:03:44,080
Speaker 1: that's creepy, that's weird, and it's romanticized. It is. I mean,

1043
01:03:44,640 --> 01:03:48,280
Speaker 1: even going back to the workaholic Dad where he hires

1044
01:03:48,320 --> 01:03:50,640
Speaker 1: this woman to take care of his kids while they

1045
01:03:51,120 --> 01:03:54,000
Speaker 1: become an item. But what if she the attraction wasn't

1046
01:03:54,080 --> 01:03:59,240
Speaker 1: mutual your employer. It's hitting on you, you know. I

1047
01:03:59,240 --> 01:04:02,040
Speaker 1: mean there's just so many layers to these things, and

1048
01:04:02,080 --> 01:04:06,480
Speaker 1: it's like they show you the most simplified, happy, clean

1049
01:04:06,720 --> 01:04:09,600
Speaker 1: version of it. Yeah, and you know that's what we

1050
01:04:09,640 --> 01:04:12,600
Speaker 1: want from our Hallmark holiday movies. So it's like, you know,

1051
01:04:12,640 --> 01:04:14,880
Speaker 1: I don't expect them to be like and this was

1052
01:04:14,920 --> 01:04:18,560
Speaker 1: the Christmas we discussed rape. You know, it's just more

1053
01:04:18,600 --> 01:04:22,040
Speaker 1: things to be aware of. And it's like, unfortunately, these

1054
01:04:22,160 --> 01:04:26,520
Speaker 1: like silly entertainment things. There's so much more to them

1055
01:04:26,800 --> 01:04:29,840
Speaker 1: than we than any of us want to think about. Yeah,

1056
01:04:30,120 --> 01:04:32,840
Speaker 1: And I mean there's certain aspects of society that we

1057
01:04:32,920 --> 01:04:35,240
Speaker 1: see reflected that we don't want to be more taken

1058
01:04:35,280 --> 01:04:38,240
Speaker 1: more critical eye too. And I know a lot of people, Um,

1059
01:04:38,600 --> 01:04:40,720
Speaker 1: we've talked about this a lot on this show of

1060
01:04:42,840 --> 01:04:46,960
Speaker 1: people point to all of this conversation around baby it's

1061
01:04:46,960 --> 01:04:50,560
Speaker 1: called outside and say, you're ruining flirtation, like you're you're

1062
01:04:50,600 --> 01:04:54,960
Speaker 1: making it impossible from romance happen. And I think what

1063
01:04:55,000 --> 01:04:58,040
Speaker 1: you're saying is you're making it impossible for me to

1064
01:04:58,240 --> 01:05:03,959
Speaker 1: just pursue like and non consensual like it was romanticized.

1065
01:05:04,040 --> 01:05:07,600
Speaker 1: It was okay, it was flirty, right, that's not romantic

1066
01:05:07,640 --> 01:05:10,840
Speaker 1: for one person involved. Oh, I know. It's like I

1067
01:05:10,880 --> 01:05:13,280
Speaker 1: hate that argument where it's like, well, how could a

1068
01:05:13,320 --> 01:05:15,800
Speaker 1: woman and a man in a business situation never be

1069
01:05:15,840 --> 01:05:18,640
Speaker 1: alone together because like she could claim harassment. I'm like,

1070
01:05:19,760 --> 01:05:23,760
Speaker 1: that's I get, there's like very rare cases where that

1071
01:05:23,840 --> 01:05:27,400
Speaker 1: might happen, but that's not what's generally going on. And

1072
01:05:27,880 --> 01:05:30,720
Speaker 1: generally women aren't playing hard to get They really just

1073
01:05:30,760 --> 01:05:35,040
Speaker 1: want to be left alone. And it's it's scary and disturbing,

1074
01:05:35,120 --> 01:05:38,320
Speaker 1: and that that's so hard to explain to like male

1075
01:05:38,440 --> 01:05:42,680
Speaker 1: friends or male family members, just being like, how how

1076
01:05:42,720 --> 01:05:46,000
Speaker 1: scary it could be to walk down a street and

1077
01:05:46,080 --> 01:05:50,160
Speaker 1: have people yell at you? Oh yeah, when um. I

1078
01:05:50,200 --> 01:05:56,680
Speaker 1: remember explaining to my dad once about, uh, how when

1079
01:05:57,160 --> 01:06:00,560
Speaker 1: someone would come up to me, a guy at a

1080
01:06:00,600 --> 01:06:04,040
Speaker 1: bar or something would come up and ask like, oh,

1081
01:06:04,120 --> 01:06:06,720
Speaker 1: you know, can I have your number? Let's go dance

1082
01:06:06,760 --> 01:06:09,400
Speaker 1: or whatever, And I would say no, and I would

1083
01:06:09,440 --> 01:06:12,280
Speaker 1: tense immediately because I know what's coming. I'm gonna get

1084
01:06:12,360 --> 01:06:15,680
Speaker 1: yelled at for basically just minding my own business and

1085
01:06:15,720 --> 01:06:20,680
Speaker 1: wanting to be left alone. Yeah. I mean, another thing

1086
01:06:20,880 --> 01:06:26,160
Speaker 1: specifically about baby It's cold outside, is that it's on

1087
01:06:26,640 --> 01:06:31,200
Speaker 1: the woman that her reputation would be damaged. It's on

1088
01:06:31,600 --> 01:06:37,680
Speaker 1: her to repeatedly say no, you don't. You can't just

1089
01:06:37,680 --> 01:06:40,240
Speaker 1: say it be one and done right, you know. And

1090
01:06:40,280 --> 01:06:43,760
Speaker 1: then I think this kind of song also speaks to

1091
01:06:43,800 --> 01:06:46,200
Speaker 1: another thing that I really see about our society that

1092
01:06:46,240 --> 01:06:50,320
Speaker 1: bothers me is that the woman is supposed to be

1093
01:06:50,360 --> 01:06:54,160
Speaker 1: in control of two people's actions. You know. It's the

1094
01:06:54,200 --> 01:06:57,480
Speaker 1: thing that goes back like, well, what were you wearing

1095
01:06:57,560 --> 01:07:00,400
Speaker 1: that night? I'm like, so it's like, because you decided

1096
01:07:00,440 --> 01:07:03,480
Speaker 1: to wear something, you are somehow responsible for another human

1097
01:07:03,480 --> 01:07:07,280
Speaker 1: being's actions, you know, I mean. And it's like, I

1098
01:07:07,280 --> 01:07:10,040
Speaker 1: think there's an element of that into the song on

1099
01:07:10,240 --> 01:07:13,280
Speaker 1: either interpretation, if you're saying like, this is what it

1100
01:07:13,320 --> 01:07:15,760
Speaker 1: meant at the time versus how it sounds now like

1101
01:07:16,560 --> 01:07:21,040
Speaker 1: the onus is on the woman to be protecting her

1102
01:07:21,080 --> 01:07:25,360
Speaker 1: reputation to not be seen as a loose woman, you know.

1103
01:07:25,440 --> 01:07:28,000
Speaker 1: And it's just other stuff that I don't think men

1104
01:07:28,040 --> 01:07:30,960
Speaker 1: have to consider very much because it's it's boys will

1105
01:07:31,000 --> 01:07:33,840
Speaker 1: be boys, which I've I've always hated that phrase too,

1106
01:07:35,320 --> 01:07:39,040
Speaker 1: because it implies that men don't have self control, that

1107
01:07:39,160 --> 01:07:43,160
Speaker 1: they're there they are a weak gender, that they can't

1108
01:07:43,160 --> 01:07:45,520
Speaker 1: control their actions, which I think if I was a man,

1109
01:07:45,560 --> 01:07:48,560
Speaker 1: i'd be offended by. I think I would like to

1110
01:07:48,600 --> 01:07:51,320
Speaker 1: hope most men, especially people listening to the show, are

1111
01:07:51,360 --> 01:07:56,080
Speaker 1: offended by it. Um. Yeah, it is interesting to how

1112
01:07:56,080 --> 01:08:00,440
Speaker 1: like the maleness has typically been associated with strange and

1113
01:08:00,560 --> 01:08:02,840
Speaker 1: yet that is a very weak thing to say it like,

1114
01:08:02,920 --> 01:08:06,040
Speaker 1: you have no control, I know. And I'm like, that's

1115
01:08:06,040 --> 01:08:08,680
Speaker 1: why I find it so bizarre. It's like you can't

1116
01:08:08,760 --> 01:08:11,920
Speaker 1: have it both ways, but our society seems to think

1117
01:08:11,960 --> 01:08:15,840
Speaker 1: it's completely acceptable. I'm like, it's just not logical. You're

1118
01:08:15,840 --> 01:08:19,960
Speaker 1: saying different things, but just so it makes you feel better.

1119
01:08:20,880 --> 01:08:26,479
Speaker 1: And I think that's like what's annoying about people who

1120
01:08:26,520 --> 01:08:29,080
Speaker 1: are saying, like, oh, the liberals are ruining this thing. Now.

1121
01:08:29,120 --> 01:08:31,080
Speaker 1: It's like, just because you don't want to think about

1122
01:08:31,120 --> 01:08:34,559
Speaker 1: something and you don't want to have to evaluate how

1123
01:08:34,600 --> 01:08:38,000
Speaker 1: you live your life doesn't mean that they're ruining something.

1124
01:08:38,920 --> 01:08:42,960
Speaker 1: You know, it's they're not the same thing. And yeah,

1125
01:08:43,080 --> 01:08:46,840
Speaker 1: it's it's difficult. It's hard to examine the things you

1126
01:08:46,960 --> 01:08:49,639
Speaker 1: like in the media, you consume, in the opinions you have,

1127
01:08:49,840 --> 01:08:52,559
Speaker 1: like in the deepest, darkest recesses of your mind that

1128
01:08:52,560 --> 01:08:55,519
Speaker 1: you don't want to admit to other people. Like, you know,

1129
01:08:55,640 --> 01:08:59,439
Speaker 1: it's hard, it's not comfortable, but we need to do it.

1130
01:08:59,520 --> 01:09:01,599
Speaker 1: Everyone needs to do it. Like you need to think

1131
01:09:01,600 --> 01:09:05,320
Speaker 1: about what you're consuming, yes, and then how that affects

1132
01:09:05,360 --> 01:09:07,960
Speaker 1: what you put out into the world. It comfortable with

1133
01:09:08,000 --> 01:09:11,639
Speaker 1: being uncomfortable, yes, um. And I will say to anyone

1134
01:09:11,640 --> 01:09:13,240
Speaker 1: who's listening to this, and it's like, oh, I love

1135
01:09:13,320 --> 01:09:18,519
Speaker 1: babies call outside. Uh yeah, I mean we're not so catchy,

1136
01:09:18,760 --> 01:09:23,240
Speaker 1: it is, oh my gosh. And again, as long as

1137
01:09:23,280 --> 01:09:27,000
Speaker 1: you're kind of aware and I think, yeah, yeah, just

1138
01:09:27,080 --> 01:09:32,040
Speaker 1: aware of why it can be seen as problematic and

1139
01:09:32,120 --> 01:09:36,599
Speaker 1: why some people really have a problem with it, then um,

1140
01:09:36,720 --> 01:09:39,280
Speaker 1: more power to you. Yeah. And just like, don't be

1141
01:09:39,400 --> 01:09:42,559
Speaker 1: rude to people like might be offended by it, just

1142
01:09:42,720 --> 01:09:44,320
Speaker 1: if they're like, oh I don't like the song, can

1143
01:09:44,320 --> 01:09:47,639
Speaker 1: we change it? Just just change Really not that big

1144
01:09:47,640 --> 01:09:50,840
Speaker 1: of a deal, no, um, And it is a very

1145
01:09:50,880 --> 01:09:53,840
Speaker 1: popular song, I believe as of recording this, there's over

1146
01:09:53,960 --> 01:09:58,040
Speaker 1: eighty uh different people have made a cover of Baby

1147
01:09:58,040 --> 01:10:03,160
Speaker 1: It's pulled outside um and November, one radio station in Cleveland, Ohio,

1148
01:10:03,360 --> 01:10:06,879
Speaker 1: band of the song. Several Canadian broadcasters followed suit, including

1149
01:10:06,920 --> 01:10:10,960
Speaker 1: CBC Radio, while another radio station in Kentucky played it

1150
01:10:11,080 --> 01:10:15,479
Speaker 1: NonStop for the opposite reason. Why would anyone want to

1151
01:10:15,479 --> 01:10:19,040
Speaker 1: hear a song NonStop? One thing? But okay, um, they

1152
01:10:19,040 --> 01:10:23,240
Speaker 1: gotta prove a point. Yeah, what an annoying point? How

1153
01:10:23,280 --> 01:10:28,000
Speaker 1: annoyingly done. When these stations that banned the song surveyed

1154
01:10:28,040 --> 01:10:31,040
Speaker 1: their listenership though about whether or not they should reinstate it,

1155
01:10:31,320 --> 01:10:36,360
Speaker 1: an overwhelming majority in all cases supported putting it back

1156
01:10:36,439 --> 01:10:39,400
Speaker 1: in rotation. Um, but we're not the only ones that

1157
01:10:39,479 --> 01:10:42,920
Speaker 1: have had this interpretation at all. You probably didn't think that,

1158
01:10:43,000 --> 01:10:46,160
Speaker 1: But just to be clear, in Key and Peel parody

1159
01:10:46,320 --> 01:10:49,439
Speaker 1: the song, and Funny or Die did the same with

1160
01:10:49,479 --> 01:10:53,479
Speaker 1: the mouse hitting on the wolf, hitting it literally over

1161
01:10:53,520 --> 01:10:57,280
Speaker 1: the head with a shovel and shouting this is completely

1162
01:10:57,600 --> 01:11:01,759
Speaker 1: this is a completely inappropriate song. And SNL also period

1163
01:11:01,800 --> 01:11:08,400
Speaker 1: to perioded in with Keenan Thompson impersonating Bill Cosby. Yeah,

1164
01:11:08,439 --> 01:11:12,080
Speaker 1: that's not an association you want anymore with a Christmas song,

1165
01:11:12,479 --> 01:11:17,559
Speaker 1: for sure, no UM or at all. No UM. But

1166
01:11:17,720 --> 01:11:21,040
Speaker 1: despite this, or maybe because of it, Baby It's Cold

1167
01:11:21,080 --> 01:11:23,320
Speaker 1: Outside is doing better than ever. Sales are going up,

1168
01:11:23,360 --> 01:11:27,000
Speaker 1: digital sales growing up, not down. UM. There's a version

1169
01:11:27,040 --> 01:11:31,200
Speaker 1: with updated lyrics that I really dig most UM. I

1170
01:11:31,200 --> 01:11:32,920
Speaker 1: don't want to say conservative, but you know, people that

1171
01:11:32,960 --> 01:11:36,080
Speaker 1: are angry about this whole thing, they really don't dig it.

1172
01:11:36,120 --> 01:11:39,240
Speaker 1: But I liked it UM by Lydia Lisa and Josia

1173
01:11:39,280 --> 01:11:42,280
Speaker 1: Lamancy called Baby I'm cool with that um and there

1174
01:11:42,520 --> 01:11:44,800
Speaker 1: The proceeds of the song go to organizations focused on

1175
01:11:44,840 --> 01:11:50,519
Speaker 1: providing help to survivors of sexual violence and UM. Whether

1176
01:11:50,640 --> 01:11:53,920
Speaker 1: or not you think the original version needed an update.

1177
01:11:53,960 --> 01:11:57,160
Speaker 1: I think it's still fun, like I can hear baby

1178
01:11:57,160 --> 01:11:58,680
Speaker 1: it's cold outside, and if I don't pay too much

1179
01:11:58,680 --> 01:12:01,200
Speaker 1: attention to it, it is catchy. It's when I started

1180
01:12:01,200 --> 01:12:02,559
Speaker 1: listening to the lyrics that I get a kind of

1181
01:12:02,600 --> 01:12:06,519
Speaker 1: like mm hmmm um. But I really liked Babe. I'm

1182
01:12:06,560 --> 01:12:08,400
Speaker 1: cool with that because it's basically like I really can't

1183
01:12:08,400 --> 01:12:10,960
Speaker 1: stay and he's like, maybe I'm cool with that. If

1184
01:12:11,000 --> 01:12:14,240
Speaker 1: we're going to keep recording it, Yeah, let's mix it up,

1185
01:12:14,240 --> 01:12:17,559
Speaker 1: So that's fair. Yeah, because they I mean, like right

1186
01:12:17,680 --> 01:12:21,200
Speaker 1: this year, I think two versions were recorded. Let's let's

1187
01:12:21,200 --> 01:12:23,960
Speaker 1: see something different, or we can I mean, you know,

1188
01:12:24,160 --> 01:12:25,840
Speaker 1: we could give rid of it all together. I don't

1189
01:12:25,880 --> 01:12:29,040
Speaker 1: think that will ever happen. But no, and I didn't

1190
01:12:29,080 --> 01:12:33,040
Speaker 1: necessarily say that that should happen because I think, you know,

1191
01:12:34,120 --> 01:12:37,000
Speaker 1: you shouldn't glorify things that happened in the past, but

1192
01:12:37,080 --> 01:12:39,360
Speaker 1: you should be aware of them. Yeah, you know, and

1193
01:12:39,400 --> 01:12:43,479
Speaker 1: it's like our culture has roots and what happened and

1194
01:12:44,040 --> 01:12:46,240
Speaker 1: like at the time this song was recorded, you know,

1195
01:12:46,280 --> 01:12:48,280
Speaker 1: I mean, it's like you can't completely ignore it. But

1196
01:12:48,920 --> 01:12:51,439
Speaker 1: ignoring and glorifying are very different things, which I think

1197
01:12:51,520 --> 01:12:54,160
Speaker 1: is also been a source of confusion for some people

1198
01:12:54,200 --> 01:12:59,479
Speaker 1: in our society. I would agree. Um, so we have

1199
01:12:59,560 --> 01:13:01,559
Speaker 1: to on role mentions that I don't really want to

1200
01:13:01,560 --> 01:13:04,479
Speaker 1: get into, but they do come up in terms of

1201
01:13:04,520 --> 01:13:08,160
Speaker 1: sexism and holiday songs and want to Santa Baby, which

1202
01:13:08,200 --> 01:13:11,000
Speaker 1: is pretty much about a woman or how people some

1203
01:13:11,040 --> 01:13:13,519
Speaker 1: people read it. It's pretty much about a woman trying

1204
01:13:13,520 --> 01:13:16,599
Speaker 1: to seduce Santa for gifts. Um. And then I saw

1205
01:13:16,840 --> 01:13:20,519
Speaker 1: Mommy kissing Santa Claus, which also comes under fire for

1206
01:13:20,640 --> 01:13:27,320
Speaker 1: being sexist. Um, So your listeners, can you can think

1207
01:13:27,360 --> 01:13:31,160
Speaker 1: about that one? Um? That brings us to the end

1208
01:13:31,160 --> 01:13:34,400
Speaker 1: of this our bonus holiday deep dive. Not trying to

1209
01:13:34,479 --> 01:13:37,479
Speaker 1: ruin your media, but be more I know it's like

1210
01:13:37,680 --> 01:13:41,000
Speaker 1: cognizant of what consumer like. Maybe just listen to this

1211
01:13:41,200 --> 01:13:43,320
Speaker 1: after the holidays, after you've watched all the movies. You

1212
01:13:43,320 --> 01:13:47,080
Speaker 1: can think about it for next year. That should have

1213
01:13:47,120 --> 01:13:50,600
Speaker 1: been at the beginning of the podcast. Adding a disclaimer,

1214
01:13:51,000 --> 01:13:54,719
Speaker 1: I'm someone who like as long as it's not outright terrible,

1215
01:13:54,920 --> 01:13:56,760
Speaker 1: I'll just point out a thing and I'll still enjoy

1216
01:13:56,760 --> 01:14:00,800
Speaker 1: a movie like I've been planning, um, A a feminist

1217
01:14:00,960 --> 01:14:04,080
Speaker 1: alien series Night Forever where I'm just gonna I've already

1218
01:14:04,120 --> 01:14:06,479
Speaker 1: told my friends deal with it. I'm going to point

1219
01:14:06,520 --> 01:14:09,000
Speaker 1: out all this Over're watching it, and I'm gonna have

1220
01:14:09,040 --> 01:14:14,520
Speaker 1: a wonderful time. Um. But yeah, who, whatever you celebrate,

1221
01:14:14,920 --> 01:14:22,000
Speaker 1: we hope that you're having a happy and um safe, RESTful,

1222
01:14:22,560 --> 01:14:30,040
Speaker 1: relaxing holiday or if you're of any sort, are getting

1223
01:14:30,120 --> 01:14:34,640
Speaker 1: prepared for the new year, the upcoming new year. UM,

1224
01:14:34,680 --> 01:14:37,120
Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining us today. Okay, well,

1225
01:14:37,240 --> 01:14:39,559
Speaker 1: thank you for having me. This is definitely a new

1226
01:14:39,600 --> 01:14:42,719
Speaker 1: experience for me, but it was nice. Thank you, yes,

1227
01:14:43,000 --> 01:14:47,800
Speaker 1: um and listeners. If you have any thoughts on anything,

1228
01:14:47,880 --> 01:14:51,320
Speaker 1: any holiday movies, songs, or anything else, you can email

1229
01:14:51,400 --> 01:14:54,000
Speaker 1: us at mom Stuff at haste works dot com. You

1230
01:14:54,040 --> 01:14:56,479
Speaker 1: can also find us on Twitter at mom Stuff Podcast

1231
01:14:56,560 --> 01:14:59,040
Speaker 1: and on Instagram at stuff One Never told You. Thanks

1232
01:14:59,080 --> 01:15:02,759
Speaker 1: as always to reproduce Sir Andrew Howard and fix you listening.

1233
01:15:06,520 --> 01:15:09,120
Speaker 1: M H.