1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:03,680 Speaker 1: Support for today's podcast comes from Chlorox. When it counts, 2 00:00:03,960 --> 00:00:07,400 Speaker 1: trust Clorox the same way we trust the central workers 3 00:00:07,440 --> 00:00:10,240 Speaker 1: to provide the care they give to us. Our families 4 00:00:10,240 --> 00:00:12,559 Speaker 1: trust us to give them a safe and protected home. 5 00:00:13,119 --> 00:00:16,599 Speaker 1: Our community heroes trust Clorox to keep places like hospitals 6 00:00:16,600 --> 00:00:19,880 Speaker 1: and grocery stores disinfected. So I know I too can 7 00:00:19,880 --> 00:00:22,800 Speaker 1: trust Clorox to provide my home with a safe environment 8 00:00:22,920 --> 00:00:26,239 Speaker 1: we can all enjoy. By mixing a third cup of 9 00:00:26,280 --> 00:00:29,760 Speaker 1: Chlorox regular bleach with one gallon of water, when used 10 00:00:29,760 --> 00:00:33,520 Speaker 1: as directed on hard, non poorest surfaces, it kills ninety 11 00:00:33,640 --> 00:00:36,440 Speaker 1: nine point nine percent of germs in bacteria on a 12 00:00:36,520 --> 00:00:40,480 Speaker 1: variety of surfaces, from our kitchen floors to the counters, 13 00:00:40,520 --> 00:00:44,479 Speaker 1: to bathroom tubs and of course our laundry whites. I 14 00:00:44,560 --> 00:00:47,440 Speaker 1: know I can count on Chlorox disinfecting products to give 15 00:00:47,440 --> 00:00:51,000 Speaker 1: myself and my family the best home we deserve. With 16 00:00:51,080 --> 00:00:54,240 Speaker 1: two little ones, there's always something to wipe down. We 17 00:00:54,400 --> 00:00:58,080 Speaker 1: use Clorox wipes often on our countertops and appliances and 18 00:00:58,240 --> 00:01:01,360 Speaker 1: to clean up spills from the floor. Especially right now, 19 00:01:01,680 --> 00:01:04,000 Speaker 1: it's important to think about all the small ways we 20 00:01:04,040 --> 00:01:07,760 Speaker 1: can keep our spaces as safe as possible when it 21 00:01:07,840 --> 00:01:13,320 Speaker 1: counts trust Clorox. Support for today's podcast also comes from Helix. 22 00:01:13,840 --> 00:01:16,039 Speaker 1: If you've been listening for some time, you know that 23 00:01:16,080 --> 00:01:18,640 Speaker 1: me and my Helix mattress have been in a very 24 00:01:18,640 --> 00:01:22,680 Speaker 1: happy relationship for the past six months. My Helix mattress 25 00:01:22,760 --> 00:01:25,399 Speaker 1: plus my bamboo sheets have made it way too easy 26 00:01:25,440 --> 00:01:28,360 Speaker 1: to stay in bed on these cold mornings. The thing 27 00:01:28,440 --> 00:01:31,520 Speaker 1: I love most about Helix, besides the comfort, is that 28 00:01:31,560 --> 00:01:33,560 Speaker 1: I was able to take a two minute quiz that 29 00:01:33,640 --> 00:01:36,680 Speaker 1: matches your body type and sleep preference to the perfect 30 00:01:36,680 --> 00:01:41,080 Speaker 1: mattress for you. Ordering was super easy and delivery was 31 00:01:41,200 --> 00:01:44,080 Speaker 1: very fast. If you're looking for an upgrade to the 32 00:01:44,080 --> 00:01:46,800 Speaker 1: way you sleep, I'd encourage you to check out Helix, 33 00:01:46,800 --> 00:01:49,559 Speaker 1: where a mattress shift straight to your door with free 34 00:01:49,600 --> 00:01:54,280 Speaker 1: no contact delivery, completely free returns, and a one night 35 00:01:54,320 --> 00:01:57,920 Speaker 1: sleep trial. 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Welcome to the Therapy for Black 43 00:02:30,840 --> 00:02:36,440 Speaker 1: Girls Podcast, a weekly conversation about mental health, personal development, 44 00:02:36,919 --> 00:02:39,600 Speaker 1: and all the small decisions we can make to become 45 00:02:39,600 --> 00:02:43,760 Speaker 1: the best possible versions of ourselves. I'm your host, Dr 46 00:02:43,880 --> 00:02:48,079 Speaker 1: joy hard and Bradford, a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. 47 00:02:48,760 --> 00:02:52,359 Speaker 1: For more information or to find a therapist in your area, 48 00:02:52,960 --> 00:02:57,079 Speaker 1: visit our website at Therapy for Black Girls dot com. 49 00:02:57,120 --> 00:03:00,200 Speaker 1: While I hope you love listening to and learning from 50 00:03:00,240 --> 00:03:03,400 Speaker 1: the podcast, it is not meant to be a substitute 51 00:03:03,680 --> 00:03:14,960 Speaker 1: for a relationship with a licensed mental health professional. Hey, Gyul, 52 00:03:15,480 --> 00:03:18,240 Speaker 1: thanks so much for joining me for session of the 53 00:03:18,280 --> 00:03:22,080 Speaker 1: Therapy for Black Girls Podcast. In Session on two of 54 00:03:22,080 --> 00:03:26,200 Speaker 1: the podcast, we spoke with Dr Jessica D. Mormon about 55 00:03:26,240 --> 00:03:29,920 Speaker 1: reimagining what it means to be single, and several community 56 00:03:29,960 --> 00:03:33,239 Speaker 1: members requested that she returned to talk about what singleness 57 00:03:33,280 --> 00:03:37,480 Speaker 1: means during the pandemic as a reminder. Dr Mormon is 58 00:03:37,520 --> 00:03:41,640 Speaker 1: an assistant professor of communication at Wayne State University. She 59 00:03:41,720 --> 00:03:44,880 Speaker 1: earned her pH d in Communication studies from the University 60 00:03:44,880 --> 00:03:48,000 Speaker 1: of Michigan and her Master of Health Science and Health 61 00:03:48,040 --> 00:03:51,800 Speaker 1: Behavior in Society from the Bloomberg School of Public Health 62 00:03:51,880 --> 00:03:56,560 Speaker 1: at Johns Hopkins University. Dr Mormon's research explores single black 63 00:03:56,560 --> 00:04:02,360 Speaker 1: women's experiences of unmarried life into days conversation. Dr Mormon 64 00:04:02,400 --> 00:04:05,040 Speaker 1: and I chatted about the new layers of being single 65 00:04:05,160 --> 00:04:08,720 Speaker 1: that have been illuminated by the pandemic, how community care 66 00:04:08,920 --> 00:04:12,360 Speaker 1: is more critical now than ever, how she's been creative 67 00:04:12,400 --> 00:04:15,640 Speaker 1: and getting her social needs met, and policy changes we 68 00:04:15,680 --> 00:04:18,920 Speaker 1: should consider to make the country more supportive for single women. 69 00:04:19,400 --> 00:04:23,320 Speaker 1: It's something resonates with you while enjoying our conversation, Please 70 00:04:23,400 --> 00:04:25,760 Speaker 1: be sure to share with us on social media using 71 00:04:25,800 --> 00:04:34,200 Speaker 1: the hashtag tv G in session. Here's our conversation. Dr Warman, 72 00:04:34,279 --> 00:04:36,719 Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining us again. Thank you 73 00:04:36,760 --> 00:04:40,039 Speaker 1: for having me back. I'm excited. Yes, the community was like, 74 00:04:40,120 --> 00:04:42,520 Speaker 1: we want to hear from Dr Mormon again, so we 75 00:04:42,560 --> 00:04:44,719 Speaker 1: had to get you back. But I think it is 76 00:04:44,760 --> 00:04:47,560 Speaker 1: perfect to just kind of talk about during the pandemic, 77 00:04:47,600 --> 00:04:51,480 Speaker 1: there's been so many new layers related to singleness unearthed, 78 00:04:51,760 --> 00:04:53,640 Speaker 1: so I love for us to begin with you just 79 00:04:53,680 --> 00:04:56,560 Speaker 1: talking about what you've been up to since we last chatted. 80 00:04:57,240 --> 00:05:02,320 Speaker 1: You're gonna start there oh my, oh, since the last 81 00:05:02,360 --> 00:05:06,000 Speaker 1: time we walked, a relationship of five years ended. I 82 00:05:06,040 --> 00:05:12,320 Speaker 1: got a new job, I moved to another state. I 83 00:05:12,440 --> 00:05:15,000 Speaker 1: rehabbed a house. So I bought an abandoned house and 84 00:05:15,040 --> 00:05:17,600 Speaker 1: rehabbed it and I'm now living in it. What else 85 00:05:17,680 --> 00:05:19,280 Speaker 1: you want to know? You know, my life is just 86 00:05:19,320 --> 00:05:24,320 Speaker 1: sort of I flipped the table upside down. So and 87 00:05:24,440 --> 00:05:27,720 Speaker 1: you have done most of this during the pandemic. Oh. 88 00:05:28,880 --> 00:05:32,000 Speaker 1: I was looking for jobs starting September of last year, 89 00:05:32,120 --> 00:05:35,800 Speaker 1: and started my interviewing process in November of last year, 90 00:05:35,839 --> 00:05:38,479 Speaker 1: and didn't you know, sign a new contract until April. 91 00:05:39,200 --> 00:05:41,520 Speaker 1: My partner and I ended up breaking up because he 92 00:05:41,560 --> 00:05:43,680 Speaker 1: found a job back in Trinidad, where he's from. And 93 00:05:43,680 --> 00:05:46,200 Speaker 1: I'm from Detroit, and so I got a job at 94 00:05:46,200 --> 00:05:48,560 Speaker 1: Wayne State University, which is where I'm from, you know, 95 00:05:48,640 --> 00:05:51,200 Speaker 1: I'm from the city. So I came on home, he 96 00:05:51,279 --> 00:05:53,799 Speaker 1: went on home, and I had to interview right before 97 00:05:53,839 --> 00:05:56,800 Speaker 1: COVID hit. So my interview for my current job was 98 00:05:56,839 --> 00:06:00,680 Speaker 1: on May sewod we had you know, lockdown orders going 99 00:06:00,720 --> 00:06:04,560 Speaker 1: into place that next week. So when I had to 100 00:06:04,760 --> 00:06:08,799 Speaker 1: you know, shift everything online for coursework and teaching starting 101 00:06:08,839 --> 00:06:12,159 Speaker 1: March twelve, and you know, packed up my house in 102 00:06:12,200 --> 00:06:15,160 Speaker 1: Iowa single handedly because I didn't want you know, my 103 00:06:15,200 --> 00:06:17,560 Speaker 1: parents were offering to help me, but y'all, seventy have 104 00:06:17,640 --> 00:06:19,680 Speaker 1: a seat. You don't need to be out here running around, 105 00:06:20,040 --> 00:06:22,919 Speaker 1: right right, And then moved here, finished my rehab because 106 00:06:22,960 --> 00:06:25,640 Speaker 1: I wasn't expecting to actually be in my house, because 107 00:06:25,680 --> 00:06:27,800 Speaker 1: I wasn't expecting to leave Iowa, because I was expecting 108 00:06:27,839 --> 00:06:30,520 Speaker 1: to get married and have kids in Iowa. So yeah, 109 00:06:30,560 --> 00:06:33,960 Speaker 1: my life looks completely different from how it did when 110 00:06:33,960 --> 00:06:39,240 Speaker 1: we talked last time, obviously, obviously, So I am curious, 111 00:06:39,360 --> 00:06:42,480 Speaker 1: and you know, I know that you engage fully in 112 00:06:42,560 --> 00:06:45,719 Speaker 1: qualitative research, and so we know that you know who 113 00:06:45,720 --> 00:06:47,599 Speaker 1: we are as a researcher and then shows up in 114 00:06:47,640 --> 00:06:51,039 Speaker 1: the research. So I'm curious to hear how maybe any 115 00:06:51,080 --> 00:06:53,880 Speaker 1: of your personal experiences have kind of led to any 116 00:06:53,920 --> 00:06:56,159 Speaker 1: new research ideas or what kinds of things have you 117 00:06:56,240 --> 00:06:59,520 Speaker 1: been studying during this time. So during this time, I've 118 00:06:59,560 --> 00:07:02,120 Speaker 1: actually really been sitting with the qualitative data that I 119 00:07:02,200 --> 00:07:05,279 Speaker 1: was talking with you kind of preliminarily about last time, 120 00:07:05,880 --> 00:07:09,160 Speaker 1: and so thinking more sort of about how I want 121 00:07:09,200 --> 00:07:12,200 Speaker 1: to purpose that project and what kind of deeper insights 122 00:07:12,240 --> 00:07:15,680 Speaker 1: can be revealed from those conversations that I've had because 123 00:07:15,880 --> 00:07:17,560 Speaker 1: you know, we're in quarantine, so I can't go out 124 00:07:17,560 --> 00:07:19,360 Speaker 1: and get data in the same ways that I would 125 00:07:19,360 --> 00:07:22,960 Speaker 1: have otherwise, and really, you know, kind of thinking about 126 00:07:23,000 --> 00:07:26,080 Speaker 1: what's going on in that project and you ask mesearch questions. 127 00:07:26,080 --> 00:07:28,640 Speaker 1: So drawing kind of parallels between my own life is 128 00:07:28,720 --> 00:07:32,160 Speaker 1: just sort of thinking about the infinite flexibility of single life. 129 00:07:32,720 --> 00:07:35,880 Speaker 1: It can look any kind of way. And then I 130 00:07:35,880 --> 00:07:39,360 Speaker 1: think also kind of very pressing for me but also 131 00:07:39,400 --> 00:07:43,560 Speaker 1: for others, is just thinking about the ways that structural 132 00:07:43,640 --> 00:07:47,200 Speaker 1: conditions are really shaping a lot of people's experiences in 133 00:07:47,880 --> 00:07:51,680 Speaker 1: COVID nineteen shaping my experiences. So I have the privilege 134 00:07:51,680 --> 00:07:54,640 Speaker 1: of working from home. I don't have any kids, which 135 00:07:54,680 --> 00:07:58,560 Speaker 1: before this experience was you know, maybe not seen as 136 00:07:58,560 --> 00:08:01,600 Speaker 1: a privilege, but you know, in lockdown, I'm one percent 137 00:08:01,680 --> 00:08:04,920 Speaker 1: experiencing it it as one because I don't have to 138 00:08:04,920 --> 00:08:08,480 Speaker 1: worry about the kind of concerns around child care, you know. 139 00:08:08,560 --> 00:08:11,360 Speaker 1: And so for me, I think those are kind of 140 00:08:11,400 --> 00:08:14,600 Speaker 1: the two biggest reframes that have happened. Is just sort 141 00:08:14,600 --> 00:08:17,440 Speaker 1: of thinking about the ways that structural factors are really 142 00:08:17,600 --> 00:08:21,080 Speaker 1: kind of undermining single women's opportunities to be great in 143 00:08:21,160 --> 00:08:24,360 Speaker 1: most kind of colloquial sense. But then also thinking about 144 00:08:24,440 --> 00:08:27,800 Speaker 1: how we kind of have a privilege in version, things 145 00:08:27,880 --> 00:08:33,319 Speaker 1: that are in the culture maybe derided or mocked are 146 00:08:33,400 --> 00:08:37,079 Speaker 1: showing up perhaps as saving graces in this period of time. 147 00:08:37,160 --> 00:08:39,880 Speaker 1: And so that's not to critique any mothers, you know, 148 00:08:39,920 --> 00:08:42,000 Speaker 1: I'm not. I'm not trying to kind of shade anybody 149 00:08:42,120 --> 00:08:45,240 Speaker 1: or or create any conflicts here. But if we're speaking 150 00:08:45,280 --> 00:08:48,200 Speaker 1: specifically about my own experiences, those are the two things 151 00:08:48,200 --> 00:08:51,199 Speaker 1: that come to mind. And can you say more about 152 00:08:51,240 --> 00:08:53,720 Speaker 1: some of those structural pieces, because I do think that 153 00:08:53,720 --> 00:08:56,200 Speaker 1: that a lot of what has happened during COVID nineteen 154 00:08:56,240 --> 00:08:59,160 Speaker 1: is that we have realized or further realized with some 155 00:08:59,240 --> 00:09:01,760 Speaker 1: of us. How so many of these structures were very 156 00:09:01,760 --> 00:09:04,120 Speaker 1: shaky in the first place. So can you say more 157 00:09:04,120 --> 00:09:06,360 Speaker 1: about what that looks like and how that maybe is 158 00:09:06,400 --> 00:09:10,199 Speaker 1: impacting singles? Sure, and so we can think about the 159 00:09:10,280 --> 00:09:15,199 Speaker 1: kind of structural factors that's taking place along race, class, gender, 160 00:09:15,720 --> 00:09:19,959 Speaker 1: but then also very acutely marital status lines. So first 161 00:09:19,960 --> 00:09:21,679 Speaker 1: and foremost we kind of need to think about what 162 00:09:21,720 --> 00:09:24,880 Speaker 1: it means to be single in this moment. In my research, 163 00:09:25,000 --> 00:09:27,640 Speaker 1: I define being single as a person who is unmarried 164 00:09:27,679 --> 00:09:33,880 Speaker 1: and not cohabiting, because those are two institutions or relationship structures, 165 00:09:33,920 --> 00:09:36,880 Speaker 1: whether you're married or not, that provide a lot of 166 00:09:36,920 --> 00:09:40,000 Speaker 1: support ideally, right you have a person in the house 167 00:09:40,280 --> 00:09:42,320 Speaker 1: with you, if you're cohabiting with them, or if you're 168 00:09:42,360 --> 00:09:45,920 Speaker 1: kind of living with a partner. And so what you're 169 00:09:45,960 --> 00:09:48,520 Speaker 1: seeing is that I don't want to frame this as privileged, 170 00:09:48,520 --> 00:09:51,680 Speaker 1: because constrained choice is not privilege. But there are certain 171 00:09:51,760 --> 00:09:55,840 Speaker 1: choices available to married women that are not available to 172 00:09:55,920 --> 00:09:59,240 Speaker 1: single women. And that doesn't mean that those choices are 173 00:09:59,280 --> 00:10:02,160 Speaker 1: better or privileges. It just means that's the way that 174 00:10:02,160 --> 00:10:04,520 Speaker 1: that they're kind of experiences are are playing out. And 175 00:10:04,520 --> 00:10:07,800 Speaker 1: so I'll give you an example. We recently saw the 176 00:10:07,960 --> 00:10:12,320 Speaker 1: release of Bureau of Labor statistics data talking about the 177 00:10:12,480 --> 00:10:16,040 Speaker 1: number of women who have left the workforce, which by 178 00:10:16,040 --> 00:10:18,760 Speaker 1: no means would be considered a privilege, right because of 179 00:10:18,840 --> 00:10:23,520 Speaker 1: the mothering tax, you leave work, you take a hiatus 180 00:10:23,559 --> 00:10:25,840 Speaker 1: on your career. We know that that has implications for 181 00:10:25,920 --> 00:10:30,640 Speaker 1: lifetime earning, that has implications for career advancement, and that's 182 00:10:30,760 --> 00:10:32,880 Speaker 1: for many of us, a very necessary thing that we 183 00:10:32,920 --> 00:10:35,960 Speaker 1: have to do. In order to prioritize our families. And 184 00:10:36,080 --> 00:10:38,720 Speaker 1: so what we're seeing right now is that women have 185 00:10:38,840 --> 00:10:41,520 Speaker 1: left the labor force at four times the rate of men, 186 00:10:42,880 --> 00:10:46,560 Speaker 1: and that Latin X women make up thirty seven percent 187 00:10:46,679 --> 00:10:51,520 Speaker 1: of all women's departures. But we have to also frame 188 00:10:51,640 --> 00:10:53,760 Speaker 1: that and to be clear, eight hundred and sixty five 189 00:10:53,800 --> 00:10:56,880 Speaker 1: thousand women left the workforce between September and October of 190 00:10:56,920 --> 00:11:00,160 Speaker 1: this year. We're still digging into that dabble this This 191 00:11:00,280 --> 00:11:04,120 Speaker 1: is National Women's Law Center, I believe that did this analysis. 192 00:11:05,320 --> 00:11:06,880 Speaker 1: But we have to think about those and from the 193 00:11:06,960 --> 00:11:10,599 Speaker 1: standpoint of constrained choice, right, you can't leave the workforce 194 00:11:10,760 --> 00:11:13,160 Speaker 1: unless you have a system of support that allows you 195 00:11:13,200 --> 00:11:16,320 Speaker 1: to do that. And so what you're seeing now is 196 00:11:17,040 --> 00:11:19,880 Speaker 1: this kind of bifurcation of the workforce where you have 197 00:11:20,640 --> 00:11:24,480 Speaker 1: people who need to stay working in jobs, like single 198 00:11:24,520 --> 00:11:28,320 Speaker 1: parents who don't have the opportunity to rely on a 199 00:11:28,360 --> 00:11:32,160 Speaker 1: spouse's income earning. So you're seeing kind of burnout among 200 00:11:32,280 --> 00:11:34,599 Speaker 1: singles and single parents who have to stay on the 201 00:11:34,640 --> 00:11:37,920 Speaker 1: workforce to sustain themselves. And you're seeing these kind of 202 00:11:37,960 --> 00:11:41,320 Speaker 1: constrained choices for women that are married but are having 203 00:11:41,360 --> 00:11:45,760 Speaker 1: to trade away career advancement to secure their families. And 204 00:11:45,800 --> 00:11:48,160 Speaker 1: so again that's not about privileged per se, but the 205 00:11:48,240 --> 00:11:51,880 Speaker 1: choices that are available to single women compared to married women. 206 00:11:52,559 --> 00:11:55,040 Speaker 1: And so when we talk about kind of single status 207 00:11:55,040 --> 00:11:57,760 Speaker 1: and thinking about the fact that a lot of specifically 208 00:11:57,800 --> 00:12:00,120 Speaker 1: single parents, but singles in general just need to you 209 00:12:00,200 --> 00:12:02,520 Speaker 1: working right now, now, we need to think about the 210 00:12:02,559 --> 00:12:05,200 Speaker 1: kinds of labor that they're doing. Are you able to 211 00:12:05,240 --> 00:12:09,160 Speaker 1: stay home and do mainly office work white collar jobs, 212 00:12:10,000 --> 00:12:13,840 Speaker 1: or do you have to go into community? Are you 213 00:12:13,880 --> 00:12:17,200 Speaker 1: an essential worker? Do you have to work outside of 214 00:12:17,200 --> 00:12:20,440 Speaker 1: the home in order to sustain yourself And we're seeing 215 00:12:20,600 --> 00:12:24,320 Speaker 1: those types of jobs break along class lines in general. 216 00:12:24,600 --> 00:12:27,920 Speaker 1: Right people that can work from home are typically white 217 00:12:27,960 --> 00:12:31,600 Speaker 1: collar workers who make salaries, and so you're seeing that 218 00:12:31,640 --> 00:12:33,720 Speaker 1: the people that have to be outside of the home 219 00:12:33,800 --> 00:12:37,280 Speaker 1: the most, those who are working essential jobs or who 220 00:12:37,280 --> 00:12:40,720 Speaker 1: are working jobs that are maybe in the service industry, 221 00:12:42,080 --> 00:12:45,520 Speaker 1: they're not receiving the kinds of supports they need in 222 00:12:45,559 --> 00:12:48,920 Speaker 1: the home space to ensure that a healthy kind of 223 00:12:48,960 --> 00:12:52,679 Speaker 1: balance between work and family is going on. And so 224 00:12:52,760 --> 00:12:56,840 Speaker 1: there's tensions and pressures there that are requiring singles to 225 00:12:57,040 --> 00:13:00,200 Speaker 1: think innovatively about how to live life. So are we 226 00:13:00,320 --> 00:13:05,439 Speaker 1: combining households with our sister? Are we having to come 227 00:13:05,520 --> 00:13:08,440 Speaker 1: up with an alternative care structure, maybe even sending our 228 00:13:08,480 --> 00:13:11,880 Speaker 1: kids back to in person instruction if you don't want 229 00:13:11,880 --> 00:13:14,120 Speaker 1: to write, it's a set of kind of choices that 230 00:13:14,200 --> 00:13:18,400 Speaker 1: might not again be in one's long term best interest, 231 00:13:18,520 --> 00:13:20,840 Speaker 1: but have to be made to sustain oneself in the 232 00:13:20,920 --> 00:13:24,480 Speaker 1: here and now. M hmm, yeah, I mean, and I definitely, 233 00:13:24,559 --> 00:13:26,720 Speaker 1: you know, saw those numbers coming out and thought, wow, 234 00:13:26,760 --> 00:13:29,600 Speaker 1: that is a very large number. And I appreciate you 235 00:13:29,640 --> 00:13:33,240 Speaker 1: breaking it down because it is still an unfolding situation, right, 236 00:13:33,280 --> 00:13:35,480 Speaker 1: Like you know, we don't necessarily have an end in sight, 237 00:13:35,920 --> 00:13:37,719 Speaker 1: so to speak, and so we don't even know how 238 00:13:37,760 --> 00:13:40,199 Speaker 1: many more women are going to be leaving the workforce, 239 00:13:40,240 --> 00:13:43,840 Speaker 1: are making different decisions kind of continuing be based on 240 00:13:44,040 --> 00:13:47,480 Speaker 1: COVID nineteen and I have one more common about that data. 241 00:13:48,000 --> 00:13:51,640 Speaker 1: So again, this is the National Women's Law Center. I 242 00:13:51,640 --> 00:13:53,640 Speaker 1: believe who did these analyzes and I can pull it 243 00:13:53,720 --> 00:13:56,120 Speaker 1: up to confirm where that report is from. But they 244 00:13:56,120 --> 00:13:57,840 Speaker 1: looked with them that data. It's eight hundred and sixty 245 00:13:57,840 --> 00:14:01,400 Speaker 1: five thousand women left. Third seven percent of those women 246 00:14:01,400 --> 00:14:05,120 Speaker 1: were Latin X six point five percent of those women 247 00:14:05,240 --> 00:14:08,280 Speaker 1: were black. And again, like you said, we're still learning 248 00:14:08,320 --> 00:14:12,000 Speaker 1: about that data, but it's my hunch because marital status 249 00:14:12,040 --> 00:14:14,960 Speaker 1: differences look so different between Latin X and Black women 250 00:14:15,440 --> 00:14:17,760 Speaker 1: that one of the reason you're seeing Black women remain 251 00:14:17,800 --> 00:14:21,200 Speaker 1: in the workforce is because a they don't have financial 252 00:14:21,200 --> 00:14:24,040 Speaker 1: constraints that might require them to stay, but be because 253 00:14:24,080 --> 00:14:27,320 Speaker 1: they don't have the option of relying on a marital 254 00:14:27,360 --> 00:14:30,280 Speaker 1: partner in the same ways that other kind of racial 255 00:14:30,320 --> 00:14:34,120 Speaker 1: groups of women do. Mm hmm. And so when you 256 00:14:34,160 --> 00:14:37,520 Speaker 1: think about like the long term implications of that, I mean, again, 257 00:14:37,560 --> 00:14:39,280 Speaker 1: we don't necessarily know, but what would be some of 258 00:14:39,320 --> 00:14:43,720 Speaker 1: your guess is about what that means. Well, based on 259 00:14:43,840 --> 00:14:47,080 Speaker 1: kind of what we see in the data around labor 260 00:14:47,280 --> 00:14:51,520 Speaker 1: and kind of women's trajectories in the workforce, we know 261 00:14:51,640 --> 00:14:57,160 Speaker 1: that departures from work have implications for career advancement over 262 00:14:57,200 --> 00:15:01,360 Speaker 1: the long term and have implications for income earning over 263 00:15:01,400 --> 00:15:07,240 Speaker 1: the long term, and so departure from the workforce it 264 00:15:07,280 --> 00:15:10,880 Speaker 1: has implications for professional women's kind of security over the 265 00:15:10,960 --> 00:15:16,400 Speaker 1: life course, but for single women that has implications in 266 00:15:16,440 --> 00:15:18,640 Speaker 1: the here and now for how we're going to manage 267 00:15:18,640 --> 00:15:23,000 Speaker 1: the stress of this current moment right and because social 268 00:15:23,360 --> 00:15:27,320 Speaker 1: supports networks are a bit frayed right now, you can't 269 00:15:27,360 --> 00:15:29,880 Speaker 1: rely on maybe support that you would have from a 270 00:15:30,120 --> 00:15:33,480 Speaker 1: parent or a sibling in the same way because maybe 271 00:15:33,520 --> 00:15:37,680 Speaker 1: you are not able to access them. There's a lot 272 00:15:37,720 --> 00:15:41,640 Speaker 1: of difficulties managing perhaps the isolation of this moment, the 273 00:15:42,120 --> 00:15:47,200 Speaker 1: responsibilities of this moment. And then also because lots of 274 00:15:47,240 --> 00:15:50,000 Speaker 1: states are still kind of you know, going back into 275 00:15:50,040 --> 00:15:53,800 Speaker 1: lockdowns because our COVID numbers are getting so high. For 276 00:15:53,880 --> 00:15:56,400 Speaker 1: some of us, this also might mean going into the 277 00:15:56,440 --> 00:16:01,920 Speaker 1: winter without employment. And so because we know that there's 278 00:16:01,960 --> 00:16:05,000 Speaker 1: not really a safety net in place in terms of 279 00:16:05,000 --> 00:16:09,400 Speaker 1: people receiving childcare, in terms of people receiving supplemental income, 280 00:16:09,960 --> 00:16:11,960 Speaker 1: the current moment that we're in has a very real, 281 00:16:12,080 --> 00:16:14,960 Speaker 1: kind of tangible implications for day to day survival. And 282 00:16:15,000 --> 00:16:17,200 Speaker 1: if you recall, we're not in the same moment of 283 00:16:17,240 --> 00:16:21,000 Speaker 1: protections regarding evictions that we were in June of this year. 284 00:16:21,520 --> 00:16:25,760 Speaker 1: There's not the same inertia or trajectory or motivation too, 285 00:16:26,920 --> 00:16:29,280 Speaker 1: you know, ensure that workers have the resources that they 286 00:16:29,280 --> 00:16:33,120 Speaker 1: need to maintain their households, yes, monetary, but also child 287 00:16:33,160 --> 00:16:39,920 Speaker 1: care resources, and so people are stressed legitimately so, and 288 00:16:40,080 --> 00:16:42,960 Speaker 1: depending on where you sit in terms of your economic 289 00:16:43,080 --> 00:16:48,000 Speaker 1: your marital status, your child, maternal status, you know, these 290 00:16:48,040 --> 00:16:52,240 Speaker 1: can be a different kind of configurations of stressors right 291 00:16:52,360 --> 00:16:54,720 Speaker 1: on top of the stress of being in a bandonming 292 00:16:56,280 --> 00:16:59,120 Speaker 1: because oh yeah, by the way, did I mention there 293 00:16:59,320 --> 00:17:02,040 Speaker 1: is a panned amica right right? I mean, so it's 294 00:17:02,080 --> 00:17:05,040 Speaker 1: you know, this general level of stress for you know, 295 00:17:05,119 --> 00:17:07,320 Speaker 1: most people, but then you add all of these additional 296 00:17:07,359 --> 00:17:11,720 Speaker 1: stresses that single women might be experiencing, correct, I mean, 297 00:17:11,760 --> 00:17:14,800 Speaker 1: And what I'm seeing and talking and kind of hearing 298 00:17:14,880 --> 00:17:17,720 Speaker 1: informally from folks is that if you're in a position where, 299 00:17:18,440 --> 00:17:20,960 Speaker 1: you know, if you're home alone, let's say you live 300 00:17:21,000 --> 00:17:24,240 Speaker 1: alone or you live with a roommate, great, there's privilege 301 00:17:24,240 --> 00:17:27,119 Speaker 1: attached to being able to work from home, to be 302 00:17:27,200 --> 00:17:29,200 Speaker 1: able to kind of stay home and shelter in place. 303 00:17:29,240 --> 00:17:31,600 Speaker 1: But that's a lot of isolation, that's a lot of 304 00:17:31,640 --> 00:17:34,080 Speaker 1: alone time, that can be a lot of me and 305 00:17:34,119 --> 00:17:36,680 Speaker 1: this house. I'm just like looking at these four walls. 306 00:17:37,680 --> 00:17:41,040 Speaker 1: And so it is that kind of thinking about needing 307 00:17:41,080 --> 00:17:45,520 Speaker 1: to create intentional opportunities for connection for community, because again, 308 00:17:45,840 --> 00:17:48,399 Speaker 1: our social networks are undermined. Folks are not able to 309 00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:52,480 Speaker 1: go to church meetings, club meetings, sports gatherings like they 310 00:17:52,520 --> 00:17:55,359 Speaker 1: normally would. You can't just hop on a plane and 311 00:17:55,359 --> 00:17:57,359 Speaker 1: go see your mom if you're worried about her. In 312 00:17:57,400 --> 00:18:00,400 Speaker 1: the same ways, like, we've also got a out of 313 00:18:00,520 --> 00:18:04,159 Speaker 1: restrictions in place that keep us from being able to 314 00:18:04,200 --> 00:18:06,840 Speaker 1: access the people who we would seek comfort for and 315 00:18:06,920 --> 00:18:09,480 Speaker 1: be in community within normal times as well. So it's 316 00:18:09,480 --> 00:18:12,000 Speaker 1: not just that the stressors are different, but our ability 317 00:18:12,080 --> 00:18:15,440 Speaker 1: to actually soothe those stressors are different as well. Yeah, 318 00:18:15,480 --> 00:18:17,280 Speaker 1: I'm glad you said that, because we spent a lot 319 00:18:17,280 --> 00:18:20,119 Speaker 1: of time when you were here last time talking about 320 00:18:20,160 --> 00:18:22,879 Speaker 1: that being a large part of reimagining, right, like of 321 00:18:22,920 --> 00:18:27,320 Speaker 1: pouring yourself into these community resources, in developing your chosen 322 00:18:27,359 --> 00:18:30,159 Speaker 1: family and all of those things. And now all of 323 00:18:30,160 --> 00:18:33,600 Speaker 1: that looks very different. So have you seen people talk 324 00:18:33,640 --> 00:18:36,679 Speaker 1: about like different creative ways that they are trying to 325 00:18:36,800 --> 00:18:40,040 Speaker 1: be intentional about staying connected to you know, support systems 326 00:18:40,640 --> 00:18:43,760 Speaker 1: I have and the other things that I want to 327 00:18:43,800 --> 00:18:46,879 Speaker 1: highlight about single hood. One of the things that people 328 00:18:46,880 --> 00:18:48,840 Speaker 1: hate the most of it is the freedom. It's too 329 00:18:48,920 --> 00:18:51,480 Speaker 1: much freedom. What am I doing? One of the best 330 00:18:51,640 --> 00:18:54,840 Speaker 1: parts of single status is the freedom being able to 331 00:18:55,040 --> 00:19:02,080 Speaker 1: lean into innovation, lean into reinventing, en into tinkering and 332 00:19:02,119 --> 00:19:06,160 Speaker 1: playing with solutions that work, doubling down on those and 333 00:19:06,200 --> 00:19:09,520 Speaker 1: rejecting things or letting go of things that don't work. 334 00:19:09,520 --> 00:19:13,560 Speaker 1: And so single status allows unmarried folks, people who aren't 335 00:19:13,600 --> 00:19:17,240 Speaker 1: in relationship to really kind of create a laboratory of 336 00:19:17,320 --> 00:19:19,560 Speaker 1: their lives. And so I would say that folks have 337 00:19:19,640 --> 00:19:23,520 Speaker 1: been really leaning in hard to that, combining households with friends, 338 00:19:23,560 --> 00:19:27,760 Speaker 1: combining households with family, to cut down on expenses, to 339 00:19:27,920 --> 00:19:32,159 Speaker 1: increase opportunities for child care, thinking creatively about how to 340 00:19:32,280 --> 00:19:36,359 Speaker 1: use zoom to create connection between folks, to create you know, 341 00:19:37,240 --> 00:19:40,879 Speaker 1: can I share You know it's a raunchy story, but 342 00:19:40,920 --> 00:19:44,320 Speaker 1: can I tell you something funny? Dr joys of Good. 343 00:19:44,560 --> 00:19:47,320 Speaker 1: So deep in the midst of what was this April 344 00:19:48,280 --> 00:19:50,920 Speaker 1: my man had just left. I'm at the house having 345 00:19:50,920 --> 00:19:53,800 Speaker 1: a panic attack. I'm going to be in Iowa forever. Okay, 346 00:19:53,880 --> 00:19:58,160 Speaker 1: this is where I was at mentally. April comes. I 347 00:19:58,200 --> 00:20:01,480 Speaker 1: saw an advertisement from one of my favorite black owned 348 00:20:01,560 --> 00:20:06,479 Speaker 1: lingerie brands that she was hosting an online stripper party 349 00:20:07,760 --> 00:20:11,880 Speaker 1: for like five dollars or whatever. And it end I went, 350 00:20:12,000 --> 00:20:14,120 Speaker 1: of course, because I want to see what's going on, 351 00:20:14,880 --> 00:20:18,200 Speaker 1: but it ended up being an opportunity for just women 352 00:20:18,240 --> 00:20:22,240 Speaker 1: across the country a to google at this this man 353 00:20:22,320 --> 00:20:25,280 Speaker 1: on screen, but be to just have a good time 354 00:20:25,359 --> 00:20:29,280 Speaker 1: to scream and yell and who in holler and check 355 00:20:29,320 --> 00:20:32,000 Speaker 1: out from what we were dealing with in terms of 356 00:20:32,040 --> 00:20:34,880 Speaker 1: the pandemic. And so we've seen a lot of entertainment 357 00:20:34,960 --> 00:20:39,560 Speaker 1: shifts moving online. The versus battles have been great anyway, 358 00:20:39,560 --> 00:20:42,159 Speaker 1: and so this kind of reinventing of culture and re 359 00:20:42,280 --> 00:20:45,920 Speaker 1: tinkering of culture is something that is allowing us to adapt, 360 00:20:46,240 --> 00:20:48,840 Speaker 1: and so singles need to kind of scale that down 361 00:20:48,880 --> 00:20:53,080 Speaker 1: for themselves. How can we retinker and reinvent this moment? 362 00:20:53,400 --> 00:20:56,240 Speaker 1: How can we think of creative ways to stay connected 363 00:20:56,280 --> 00:20:59,399 Speaker 1: with friends and families. I normally don't use FaceTime, but 364 00:20:59,440 --> 00:21:01,480 Speaker 1: I've been burned enough the FaceTime because I want to 365 00:21:01,480 --> 00:21:04,359 Speaker 1: see people who I love and this is one of 366 00:21:04,400 --> 00:21:07,800 Speaker 1: the only opportunities available. And so I think that's where 367 00:21:07,800 --> 00:21:10,439 Speaker 1: folks have been most creative is thinking about ways to 368 00:21:10,640 --> 00:21:14,760 Speaker 1: use technology to leverage community to take events that wouldn't 369 00:21:14,800 --> 00:21:17,639 Speaker 1: normally be able to be online, like the stripper party. 370 00:21:17,680 --> 00:21:22,880 Speaker 1: I wanted to creating an opportunity for community out of 371 00:21:22,920 --> 00:21:27,119 Speaker 1: those kind of new entertainment venues, and then also just 372 00:21:27,240 --> 00:21:31,600 Speaker 1: really thinking creatively about how to reconfigure and recombine life 373 00:21:32,160 --> 00:21:34,560 Speaker 1: so that folks are getting the support that they need. 374 00:21:34,960 --> 00:21:38,240 Speaker 1: M Yeah, I agree. We definitely have seen I think 375 00:21:38,359 --> 00:21:41,920 Speaker 1: large advances in being creative in terms of entertainment during 376 00:21:41,920 --> 00:21:45,880 Speaker 1: this time. Yeah. So the last time you were here, 377 00:21:45,920 --> 00:21:49,040 Speaker 1: we also spent some time talking about a part of 378 00:21:49,080 --> 00:21:53,160 Speaker 1: your single Woman Action Plan really being looking at emergency 379 00:21:53,200 --> 00:21:57,040 Speaker 1: health contacts, right, and of course during a pandemic, I 380 00:21:57,080 --> 00:22:00,919 Speaker 1: think that that became even more illustrative for people. And 381 00:22:00,960 --> 00:22:03,680 Speaker 1: so I'm wondering if you have additional thoughts about, like, 382 00:22:04,240 --> 00:22:06,920 Speaker 1: you know, developing an emergency health plan as a single 383 00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:10,240 Speaker 1: woman in addition to which you share the first time. Absolutely, 384 00:22:10,280 --> 00:22:12,080 Speaker 1: and I think I talked to you about to sort 385 00:22:12,119 --> 00:22:14,479 Speaker 1: of the single Woman Action Plan being a set of 386 00:22:14,520 --> 00:22:18,200 Speaker 1: directives that you want for your life. Right. Single status 387 00:22:18,240 --> 00:22:23,560 Speaker 1: is changing. We change as individuals and the circumstances around 388 00:22:23,680 --> 00:22:27,679 Speaker 1: us change daily, as we've seen in the pandemic, and 389 00:22:27,760 --> 00:22:30,760 Speaker 1: so this document is something too that can be an 390 00:22:30,760 --> 00:22:34,520 Speaker 1: ongoing conversation that you're having with yourself. It can be 391 00:22:34,560 --> 00:22:38,199 Speaker 1: a clearing house for your directives. Perhaps it's a master 392 00:22:38,320 --> 00:22:42,440 Speaker 1: file that gives loved ones access to where a will 393 00:22:42,560 --> 00:22:46,040 Speaker 1: is stored or passwords. But the goal of the Single 394 00:22:46,040 --> 00:22:49,719 Speaker 1: Woman Action Plan is for basically unmarried folks, single folks 395 00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:53,639 Speaker 1: to have a clear kind of set of goals, to 396 00:22:53,800 --> 00:22:57,760 Speaker 1: have a clear set of kind of emergency plans and 397 00:22:57,840 --> 00:23:01,480 Speaker 1: emergency contacts in place, and have that information all kind 398 00:23:01,480 --> 00:23:04,239 Speaker 1: of collected in one place. And so thinking about this 399 00:23:04,320 --> 00:23:07,600 Speaker 1: kind of emergency plan, one of the things that has 400 00:23:07,680 --> 00:23:10,520 Speaker 1: come up in the pandemic is the need to kind 401 00:23:10,520 --> 00:23:15,360 Speaker 1: of be very clear with one another about our COVID expectations. Right, 402 00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:18,040 Speaker 1: some of us might have family that don't seem to 403 00:23:18,080 --> 00:23:21,880 Speaker 1: take the pandemic seriously. Some of us might be very 404 00:23:21,880 --> 00:23:25,119 Speaker 1: concerned or might have chronic health conditions. But now is 405 00:23:25,160 --> 00:23:27,920 Speaker 1: not a time to be silent about what you need 406 00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:31,280 Speaker 1: in order to feel safe and actually be safe in 407 00:23:31,280 --> 00:23:33,720 Speaker 1: this moment. And so one of the things that I 408 00:23:33,760 --> 00:23:37,560 Speaker 1: would suggest for folks to do, alongside kind of other 409 00:23:37,680 --> 00:23:41,160 Speaker 1: general directives within their plan is get clear for themselves 410 00:23:41,160 --> 00:23:44,560 Speaker 1: what their COVID boundaries are. What do you expect for 411 00:23:44,600 --> 00:23:48,880 Speaker 1: your household, what do you expect of your close contacts 412 00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:51,560 Speaker 1: and how can you disseminate that information in a way 413 00:23:51,600 --> 00:23:53,720 Speaker 1: that everybody's on the same page. So maybe you have 414 00:23:53,760 --> 00:23:57,120 Speaker 1: a small group of friends you all have been quarantining 415 00:23:57,119 --> 00:23:59,280 Speaker 1: and kind of want to come together as a pod 416 00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:02,400 Speaker 1: basically support system for one another, so you're seeing each 417 00:24:02,400 --> 00:24:04,879 Speaker 1: other in person. It would be a great activity to 418 00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:06,480 Speaker 1: sit down with your friends and say, okay, well what 419 00:24:06,520 --> 00:24:09,600 Speaker 1: do we expect for our quarantine buddies. So that would 420 00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:12,280 Speaker 1: be one kind of thing to include in the plan 421 00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:15,360 Speaker 1: is just get really clear about your COVID boundaries, what 422 00:24:15,480 --> 00:24:19,119 Speaker 1: you expect from people who enter your home, and communicating 423 00:24:19,160 --> 00:24:23,840 Speaker 1: those other things. I would suggest alongside that would be 424 00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:27,320 Speaker 1: just a clear sense of who your emergency contacts are 425 00:24:28,119 --> 00:24:30,600 Speaker 1: and making sure that those people are aware that they 426 00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:34,600 Speaker 1: are your emergency contact. Get really clear if, for example, 427 00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:40,000 Speaker 1: you don't have legal documents spelling out what your directives 428 00:24:40,040 --> 00:24:43,239 Speaker 1: are or kind of having a plan for if you 429 00:24:43,280 --> 00:24:46,880 Speaker 1: find yourself debilitated by the disease, now would be time 430 00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:48,960 Speaker 1: to kind of really sit down and think about what 431 00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:53,040 Speaker 1: your advanced directives would be. Identifying somebody that can act 432 00:24:53,080 --> 00:24:56,600 Speaker 1: as a health proxy if you're on a ventilator, God forbid. 433 00:24:57,200 --> 00:24:59,600 Speaker 1: I would also think about, now, I don't want to 434 00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:03,000 Speaker 1: encourage age hoarding, because that is not something that we 435 00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:06,720 Speaker 1: want to repeat from earlier in the kind of pandemic, 436 00:25:06,760 --> 00:25:10,160 Speaker 1: the hoarding of resources. But I would say be deliberate 437 00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:13,640 Speaker 1: about when you go out and get resources, and combine 438 00:25:13,680 --> 00:25:16,520 Speaker 1: those trips with friends. So let's say that you and 439 00:25:16,560 --> 00:25:19,800 Speaker 1: your siblings are working to support aging parents. Part of 440 00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:22,119 Speaker 1: your plan could be getting really clear and on the 441 00:25:22,119 --> 00:25:25,680 Speaker 1: same page with them about roles and responsibilities. And obviously 442 00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:28,560 Speaker 1: this isn't an ideal world, right. People are stressed, people 443 00:25:28,680 --> 00:25:31,639 Speaker 1: got things on their plates. We're all just trying to 444 00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:34,359 Speaker 1: survive here. And so I understand if you know this 445 00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:36,439 Speaker 1: seems overwhelming for some to be like, I don't have 446 00:25:36,480 --> 00:25:38,560 Speaker 1: time to go get a will. I totally get it. 447 00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:42,840 Speaker 1: In the moments that you have writ down on a 448 00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:45,919 Speaker 1: piece of paper, let someone know what you're thinking. But 449 00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:48,600 Speaker 1: just have a clear sense of what you expect for yourself, 450 00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:51,359 Speaker 1: because it will make it easier to communicate those plans 451 00:25:51,400 --> 00:25:55,640 Speaker 1: and expectations in the future should you need to. Mm hmmm. 452 00:25:56,200 --> 00:25:58,600 Speaker 1: You know the other thing that I have seen happen, 453 00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:01,359 Speaker 1: you know, at least quite often talked about on social media, 454 00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:04,480 Speaker 1: is a lot of singles kind of moving back home, 455 00:26:05,080 --> 00:26:08,240 Speaker 1: you know, with like primary family, like maybe with parents 456 00:26:08,359 --> 00:26:11,560 Speaker 1: or with a sibling, especially since lots of companies have 457 00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:14,320 Speaker 1: now realized like, oh, we can open this up. We 458 00:26:14,320 --> 00:26:17,520 Speaker 1: don't necessarily need to have people in the office, you know, 459 00:26:17,760 --> 00:26:20,440 Speaker 1: like we thought they did. And so I'm also wondering 460 00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:23,520 Speaker 1: what that means, right, Like you know, a year ago, 461 00:26:23,680 --> 00:26:26,399 Speaker 1: you thought your life was kind of blooming in one city, 462 00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:29,560 Speaker 1: and now you're thinking like, oh, I need to maybe 463 00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:32,399 Speaker 1: move to where I have more green space or you know. 464 00:26:32,440 --> 00:26:34,160 Speaker 1: So I think that that will be something that will 465 00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:37,680 Speaker 1: continue to kind of unfold as time continues. Is that 466 00:26:37,920 --> 00:26:40,560 Speaker 1: people have made major changes like you have, right in 467 00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:44,760 Speaker 1: terms of geography, and also exactly what you're saying about 468 00:26:44,760 --> 00:26:49,680 Speaker 1: reconfiguring kind of actually homes and families, families within the home. 469 00:26:49,960 --> 00:26:52,440 Speaker 1: You're absolutely right, We're kind of in these moments where 470 00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:55,440 Speaker 1: we're needing to think creatively. We have had a lot 471 00:26:55,480 --> 00:26:58,919 Speaker 1: to grieve this past year. Grieve in terms of people, 472 00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:04,080 Speaker 1: but grieve in terms of opportunities, joys that we had planned. 473 00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:07,240 Speaker 1: So I have a mentor who was on sabbatical this year, 474 00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:09,720 Speaker 1: and she was telling me about all of the plan. 475 00:27:09,880 --> 00:27:12,120 Speaker 1: She had a trip planned a month, all of it 476 00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:16,040 Speaker 1: got canceled. She had to cancel like six trips, six 477 00:27:16,119 --> 00:27:18,359 Speaker 1: things that she was trying to do with family and friends, 478 00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:21,399 Speaker 1: which might seem kind of trivial considering the loss of 479 00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:23,760 Speaker 1: life in the current moment and the stressors that folks 480 00:27:23,760 --> 00:27:27,920 Speaker 1: are under, but those are disappointments that we have to process, 481 00:27:28,119 --> 00:27:33,399 Speaker 1: and so that kind of grieving piece is important because 482 00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:36,199 Speaker 1: we might have had an idea about, oh, well, this 483 00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:37,399 Speaker 1: year is gonna be the year that I by my 484 00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:39,720 Speaker 1: first house, or this year is going to be the 485 00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:42,239 Speaker 1: year that I go up for that promotion, or this 486 00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:43,600 Speaker 1: year is going to be the year that I have 487 00:27:43,720 --> 00:27:46,560 Speaker 1: the opportunity to really spread my wings and move out 488 00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:49,520 Speaker 1: from my parents house. I had plans in place to 489 00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:52,520 Speaker 1: do that, And the bottom line is there's no shame 490 00:27:52,560 --> 00:27:56,680 Speaker 1: in having to recalibrate temporarily. The beauty of single life 491 00:27:56,760 --> 00:27:59,480 Speaker 1: is that it gives you the flexibility to be able 492 00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:04,680 Speaker 1: to be light, to be nimble, to move quickly and 493 00:28:04,840 --> 00:28:09,000 Speaker 1: kind of efficiently in ways that folks that have kind 494 00:28:09,040 --> 00:28:13,080 Speaker 1: of marital arrangements can't write, Like, it's easier for me 495 00:28:13,119 --> 00:28:14,840 Speaker 1: to just pack up and pick up a whole my 496 00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:16,959 Speaker 1: whole house, just by myself than it would be if 497 00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:20,080 Speaker 1: I was trying to negotiate two careers, right, And so 498 00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:23,000 Speaker 1: this is a moment to really lean into that. The 499 00:28:23,080 --> 00:28:25,280 Speaker 1: other thing I would say is that this is not forever. 500 00:28:26,320 --> 00:28:29,879 Speaker 1: We will not be in pandemic lockdown forever. No, I 501 00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:33,400 Speaker 1: have no idea when it will end. But the bottom 502 00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:38,400 Speaker 1: line is is that no one's dreams are canceled. We 503 00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:43,959 Speaker 1: can still have and move towards and and create opportunities 504 00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:46,760 Speaker 1: for ourselves and live the lives that we want to live. 505 00:28:47,080 --> 00:28:49,520 Speaker 1: We just have to be flexible about how we go 506 00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:52,640 Speaker 1: about that. And so it might make temporary sense to 507 00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:55,640 Speaker 1: combine households with your aging parents because they don't have 508 00:28:55,720 --> 00:28:59,200 Speaker 1: a contact person in their city, and I can work 509 00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:01,920 Speaker 1: remotely now out and you know I don't need them 510 00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:05,280 Speaker 1: going out perfect What a great way to temporarily solve 511 00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:09,960 Speaker 1: multiple issues. I'm isolated at the house, my parents need support, 512 00:29:10,360 --> 00:29:13,760 Speaker 1: we're both spending too much money. Let's combine our households. 513 00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:16,200 Speaker 1: That doesn't mean that is a decision that's made forever, 514 00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:19,479 Speaker 1: but yeah, we're having to kind of really reshuffle family, 515 00:29:19,560 --> 00:29:23,560 Speaker 1: reshuffle what work looks like and just reshuffle and kind 516 00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:26,440 Speaker 1: of get honest and grieve a lot of some of 517 00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:29,160 Speaker 1: the goals that we've had. M hmm. But you know, 518 00:29:29,240 --> 00:29:31,840 Speaker 1: on the other side of that, it also feels like 519 00:29:32,080 --> 00:29:35,800 Speaker 1: black women have had some major wins this year, right, Like, 520 00:29:35,840 --> 00:29:38,080 Speaker 1: I feel like I've seen lots of people and it 521 00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:40,680 Speaker 1: feels like it's a very difficult things that kind of 522 00:29:40,720 --> 00:29:43,120 Speaker 1: hold space for the joy of maybe getting that big 523 00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:45,600 Speaker 1: promotion that you've had your eye on, or you know, 524 00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:48,480 Speaker 1: expanding your family or you know, whatever it is that 525 00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:50,600 Speaker 1: you know has been a blessing for you in this year. 526 00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:53,360 Speaker 1: So it feels like there's there's a difficulty kind of 527 00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:56,959 Speaker 1: like combining that with the amount of laws that we 528 00:29:57,040 --> 00:30:00,560 Speaker 1: have had this year. Oh absolutely, I know I can 529 00:30:00,600 --> 00:30:02,920 Speaker 1: personally speak to that. I felt very odd having a 530 00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:07,560 Speaker 1: great year in what is literally a pandemic. I'm also seeing, 531 00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:09,760 Speaker 1: you know, from single women who are like, I don't 532 00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:13,440 Speaker 1: have any kids. The pressure of dating is now off 533 00:30:13,520 --> 00:30:17,280 Speaker 1: of me. I've been really running around after my career 534 00:30:17,320 --> 00:30:19,000 Speaker 1: for the past few years and have needed a chance 535 00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:21,080 Speaker 1: to sit down. So this has actually been a moment 536 00:30:21,120 --> 00:30:24,560 Speaker 1: of rest and rejuvenation. And I think that for a 537 00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:26,720 Speaker 1: lot of singles that this has really been a great 538 00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:28,800 Speaker 1: moment to check in and say, wow, I actually do 539 00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:31,920 Speaker 1: love being single and that it's really working for me 540 00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:34,160 Speaker 1: in this moment. And so you talk about sort of 541 00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:39,880 Speaker 1: the tension between kind of exterior outside things happening regarding 542 00:30:39,920 --> 00:30:43,360 Speaker 1: the pandemic and maybe black women's individual experience of single 543 00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:46,880 Speaker 1: life being kind of more joyous. It's a hard tension 544 00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:48,880 Speaker 1: to hold. But we have to zoom out. Shout out 545 00:30:48,920 --> 00:30:52,480 Speaker 1: to Georgia. I know you're down in Georgia. Shout out 546 00:30:52,520 --> 00:30:55,360 Speaker 1: to Governor Stacy Abrams. I know they stole it from you, girl, 547 00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:58,480 Speaker 1: but shout out to you. God had a plan for 548 00:30:58,520 --> 00:31:00,280 Speaker 1: you and put you to doing exactly what you were 549 00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:02,640 Speaker 1: supposed to do. So back to your point about sort 550 00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:05,040 Speaker 1: of black women having larger wins in this moment. We're 551 00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:09,400 Speaker 1: killing it. We're killing We're getting it done. Okay, we 552 00:31:09,560 --> 00:31:11,800 Speaker 1: stay getting it done. This is one of the things 553 00:31:11,880 --> 00:31:14,440 Speaker 1: about black women that I love about my research, and 554 00:31:14,440 --> 00:31:16,920 Speaker 1: I love about thinking about single black women. Think about 555 00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:20,200 Speaker 1: the history of black women in this country. We weren't 556 00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:23,080 Speaker 1: even legally allowed to access marriage for like the first 557 00:31:23,800 --> 00:31:27,520 Speaker 1: part of our being here, and how much we have 558 00:31:27,840 --> 00:31:33,240 Speaker 1: individually accomplished and as a community accomplished. And now we're 559 00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:36,120 Speaker 1: in a space in a modern era, where we have technology, 560 00:31:36,120 --> 00:31:39,720 Speaker 1: where we have political activism, where we have theoretically we 561 00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:43,720 Speaker 1: have equitable access to all facets of society, and we 562 00:31:43,800 --> 00:31:50,360 Speaker 1: are dominating with it, and our ideas are needed because 563 00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:53,640 Speaker 1: who better, for example, in the case of single hood, 564 00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:58,600 Speaker 1: to give us guidance on how to be single? Who 565 00:31:58,600 --> 00:32:00,480 Speaker 1: would be better suited to do that in a group 566 00:32:00,520 --> 00:32:04,280 Speaker 1: of women who have been having to navigate high rates 567 00:32:04,280 --> 00:32:07,040 Speaker 1: of single status. And then Black women, we're the vanguards 568 00:32:07,080 --> 00:32:09,440 Speaker 1: of this, were the geniuses of this, were the tinkering 569 00:32:09,560 --> 00:32:12,720 Speaker 1: inventors of this. And so that's another thing I would 570 00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:15,560 Speaker 1: say is that we're on the vanguard in so many respects. 571 00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:19,040 Speaker 1: I'm thinking about Martha Jones is black women in political vanguard. 572 00:32:19,040 --> 00:32:22,000 Speaker 1: Her book just came out, and we're on the vanguard 573 00:32:22,040 --> 00:32:24,240 Speaker 1: of single hood as well. And so, yes, black women 574 00:32:24,280 --> 00:32:28,160 Speaker 1: are winning even in this moment of devastating loss, and 575 00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:34,120 Speaker 1: there's nothing wrong with celebrating that. Thank you, Stacy Abrows. Indeed, yes, 576 00:32:34,160 --> 00:32:37,239 Speaker 1: George is having huge celebrations for Stacy. Of course, oh 577 00:32:37,400 --> 00:32:39,400 Speaker 1: very excited, you know about the work that she was 578 00:32:39,440 --> 00:32:41,600 Speaker 1: able to in addition to other sisters who were doing 579 00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:44,360 Speaker 1: a lot of that work as well. Of course, yeah, yeah, 580 00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:48,040 Speaker 1: I agree with you. So during this time we have 581 00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:50,520 Speaker 1: also seen kind of a research into which I am 582 00:32:50,560 --> 00:32:53,640 Speaker 1: sure you have been especially excited about if you've had time, 583 00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:55,840 Speaker 1: and we've seen a researchence in all of these like 584 00:32:55,920 --> 00:32:59,160 Speaker 1: old shows, right, so, shows like half and half and 585 00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:02,880 Speaker 1: girlfriend in one on one, all kinds of Netflix. You know, 586 00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:05,720 Speaker 1: a lot of us were kind of indulging in nostalgia 587 00:33:05,760 --> 00:33:07,560 Speaker 1: as a way to kind of keep our spirits up 588 00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:10,160 Speaker 1: and stay connected to things that brought us comfort in 589 00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:12,920 Speaker 1: the past. And so I'm curious if you have done 590 00:33:12,960 --> 00:33:16,720 Speaker 1: any of that rewatching and if you know, given your research, 591 00:33:16,840 --> 00:33:19,920 Speaker 1: there are things that have kind of become illuminated about, 592 00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:22,480 Speaker 1: like just the ways that single women were portrayed in 593 00:33:22,560 --> 00:33:25,440 Speaker 1: some of these shows. Sure. So I have a confession 594 00:33:25,480 --> 00:33:28,760 Speaker 1: to make. I was raised on Nickelodeon as a child, 595 00:33:28,760 --> 00:33:30,680 Speaker 1: so I did not do a lot of one on 596 00:33:30,680 --> 00:33:34,240 Speaker 1: one Moetia sister sister watching. I have to be honest 597 00:33:34,320 --> 00:33:37,120 Speaker 1: with you. So my kind of nostalgic things have been 598 00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:40,560 Speaker 1: rug Rats and hey Arnold, and kind of I have 599 00:33:40,760 --> 00:33:42,760 Speaker 1: been and always will be a cartoon girl. But I 600 00:33:42,760 --> 00:33:46,640 Speaker 1: will say this, I sat down and rewatched Girl Friends 601 00:33:47,160 --> 00:33:50,480 Speaker 1: because I mean, I have to come on the whole 602 00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:55,800 Speaker 1: show about being single personally. I was horrified. And here's why. 603 00:33:57,200 --> 00:33:59,520 Speaker 1: And again this is not critique of any of the actress, 604 00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:05,280 Speaker 1: but it's like, Joan Clayton, I need you to understand 605 00:34:05,560 --> 00:34:08,680 Speaker 1: that just because you don't have a man doesn't mean 606 00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:13,640 Speaker 1: anything about you. It doesn't speak to anything about your character. 607 00:34:14,239 --> 00:34:17,239 Speaker 1: It's not an indication of any kind of failure or 608 00:34:17,320 --> 00:34:20,680 Speaker 1: success to be partnered. It just is a feature of 609 00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:23,520 Speaker 1: your life. And so that was probably the thing that 610 00:34:23,600 --> 00:34:26,759 Speaker 1: really aggravated me the most is just sort of watching 611 00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:30,319 Speaker 1: Joan run after all of these dudes, thinking that this 612 00:34:30,400 --> 00:34:31,800 Speaker 1: is going to be the husband, This is going to 613 00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:33,719 Speaker 1: be the husband, This is going to be the husband, right. 614 00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:39,959 Speaker 1: That stressed me out. I I personally loved Maya's ohhell yes, 615 00:34:40,640 --> 00:34:42,360 Speaker 1: I said, you better be out here telling us what 616 00:34:42,440 --> 00:34:45,600 Speaker 1: to do here, miss Maya, and she inspired me to 617 00:34:45,680 --> 00:34:47,200 Speaker 1: kind of work on my own book. If we're being 618 00:34:47,239 --> 00:34:49,120 Speaker 1: frankly honest, I was like, I can write out, oh 619 00:34:49,160 --> 00:34:51,560 Speaker 1: hell yes, I'm a right one. So now I'm working 620 00:34:51,600 --> 00:34:54,279 Speaker 1: on the b But the biggest kind of takeaway from 621 00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:58,680 Speaker 1: me about girlfriends was just sort of the desperate way 622 00:34:58,760 --> 00:35:01,359 Speaker 1: that single black women were portrayed. We've got to have 623 00:35:01,440 --> 00:35:03,759 Speaker 1: a man. What's it gonna be, you know, Like, don't 624 00:35:03,760 --> 00:35:05,799 Speaker 1: you want to go on a vacation, don't you want 625 00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:08,360 Speaker 1: to learn how to do pottery, don't you wanna, you know, 626 00:35:08,520 --> 00:35:11,280 Speaker 1: join a choir? Like it can't just all be about 627 00:35:11,320 --> 00:35:13,400 Speaker 1: getting a man. And so I think that's one of 628 00:35:13,400 --> 00:35:16,080 Speaker 1: the things that I'm noticing in the culture. But just 629 00:35:16,080 --> 00:35:18,879 Speaker 1: sort of the shift around discourse and single women is like, 630 00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:22,719 Speaker 1: we've got too much going on to be singularly fixated 631 00:35:22,719 --> 00:35:25,920 Speaker 1: on finding a man. Joan was a lawyer. She was 632 00:35:25,960 --> 00:35:28,839 Speaker 1: a lawyer, She was positioned to be a partner at 633 00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:32,480 Speaker 1: her firm, had a kind of an identity crisis around that, 634 00:35:33,200 --> 00:35:35,760 Speaker 1: and then ended up leaving to start her own business. 635 00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:39,680 Speaker 1: What an interesting story are in and of itself, the 636 00:35:39,760 --> 00:35:44,000 Speaker 1: idea of becoming one's authentic self, of leaving aside and 637 00:35:44,040 --> 00:35:47,360 Speaker 1: rejecting and setting aside a script or a role of 638 00:35:47,400 --> 00:35:51,160 Speaker 1: how you thought your life should be, and rebirthing yourself 639 00:35:51,160 --> 00:35:53,920 Speaker 1: in new snow space. That's a radical way of being. 640 00:35:54,080 --> 00:35:57,360 Speaker 1: But we're gonna be fixated on a man. Yeah, I 641 00:35:57,440 --> 00:36:00,160 Speaker 1: don't think in watching it, like in real time, I'm 642 00:36:00,280 --> 00:36:04,080 Speaker 1: years ago, I don't remember that being such a central focus, 643 00:36:04,239 --> 00:36:07,400 Speaker 1: but definitely in the rewatch it is really kind of 644 00:36:07,440 --> 00:36:09,560 Speaker 1: all that she talked about. It was kind of like 645 00:36:09,600 --> 00:36:12,320 Speaker 1: her central focus. So I think it would be interesting 646 00:36:12,400 --> 00:36:15,320 Speaker 1: if we do get this reboot right or the finale, 647 00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:18,080 Speaker 1: because you know it indeed kind of prematurely because the 648 00:36:18,120 --> 00:36:20,319 Speaker 1: thing is going on, and so it feels like they 649 00:36:20,360 --> 00:36:22,480 Speaker 1: have been whispers about like okay, are we gonna get 650 00:36:22,480 --> 00:36:24,319 Speaker 1: like the movie to kind of really bring it all 651 00:36:24,320 --> 00:36:26,799 Speaker 1: as a closure. So it would be interesting, like if 652 00:36:26,840 --> 00:36:29,799 Speaker 1: we had the current day version, if there would be 653 00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:33,319 Speaker 1: some updating around that, I would hope. So, I mean, 654 00:36:33,880 --> 00:36:36,319 Speaker 1: what was that twenty years ago? Fifteen years ago? We 655 00:36:36,360 --> 00:36:38,720 Speaker 1: can't be hungry for a man for fifteen straight years. 656 00:36:39,480 --> 00:36:42,160 Speaker 1: And I'm sure everyone that's married is listening to It's 657 00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:44,759 Speaker 1: like a girl, what no man gonna save you? You 658 00:36:44,760 --> 00:36:48,719 Speaker 1: know what? The responsibilities I have, So but yeah, I 659 00:36:48,760 --> 00:36:50,879 Speaker 1: would I be curious to see kind of what's going 660 00:36:50,920 --> 00:36:53,839 Speaker 1: on with that reboot because yeah, I'm exhausted. I had 661 00:36:53,880 --> 00:36:56,359 Speaker 1: to actually stop watching it like three seasons, and because 662 00:36:56,360 --> 00:36:59,480 Speaker 1: I'm like this is Yeah, yeah, I didn't necessarily get 663 00:36:59,560 --> 00:37:02,960 Speaker 1: very much better in terms of her quest for for partnership. 664 00:37:04,040 --> 00:37:07,080 Speaker 1: So where do you see the conversation going for Black 665 00:37:07,080 --> 00:37:11,240 Speaker 1: women in single black women, specifically in the media. Well, 666 00:37:11,280 --> 00:37:16,480 Speaker 1: first of all, I really m that's such a good question. 667 00:37:16,520 --> 00:37:20,920 Speaker 1: Where do we go? There's no one destination obviously, and 668 00:37:20,960 --> 00:37:23,720 Speaker 1: there's a number of kind of competing thoughts about representation. 669 00:37:23,840 --> 00:37:26,760 Speaker 1: What what do we want the right kind of representation 670 00:37:26,880 --> 00:37:30,120 Speaker 1: or more representation? Right, So, are we going to focus 671 00:37:30,160 --> 00:37:35,279 Speaker 1: on leaning into a select few, high profile examples of 672 00:37:35,280 --> 00:37:38,320 Speaker 1: single women that are excelling and doing great and creating 673 00:37:38,320 --> 00:37:41,759 Speaker 1: media properties around them, or we just kind of kind 674 00:37:41,760 --> 00:37:45,440 Speaker 1: of acknowledge that that would just be another narrative and 675 00:37:45,480 --> 00:37:49,440 Speaker 1: that Black women's lives are messy and real and honest 676 00:37:49,480 --> 00:37:54,960 Speaker 1: experiences and reflections of human beings being human. I know 677 00:37:55,120 --> 00:38:01,600 Speaker 1: personally that I I think there is a is opportunity 678 00:38:01,640 --> 00:38:08,280 Speaker 1: for media companies, conversations what have you when we simply 679 00:38:08,440 --> 00:38:12,479 Speaker 1: focus on single black women's experiences of trying to date 680 00:38:12,480 --> 00:38:16,879 Speaker 1: and find a relationship. Like I said, single black women 681 00:38:16,920 --> 00:38:19,520 Speaker 1: are the vanguards of single hood. We do it better 682 00:38:19,560 --> 00:38:23,000 Speaker 1: than almost anybody else, in part because we've been having 683 00:38:23,040 --> 00:38:26,120 Speaker 1: to do it in these constrained and circumscribed ways for 684 00:38:26,200 --> 00:38:29,279 Speaker 1: so long, and so I would love to see more 685 00:38:29,360 --> 00:38:32,640 Speaker 1: stories and more conversation around the ways that Black women 686 00:38:32,680 --> 00:38:37,120 Speaker 1: have basically effectively remade their lives in ways that makes 687 00:38:37,120 --> 00:38:41,960 Speaker 1: sense for them and have an honest reaction to that, 688 00:38:42,400 --> 00:38:46,160 Speaker 1: but not one that's if I had a man, then, right, 689 00:38:46,160 --> 00:38:49,239 Speaker 1: and so what does that look like? Stories of entrepreneurship, 690 00:38:50,320 --> 00:38:56,799 Speaker 1: stories of emotional growth, stories of travel, stories of what 691 00:38:56,840 --> 00:38:59,759 Speaker 1: it looks like now that I've recombined my household with 692 00:38:59,800 --> 00:39:02,600 Speaker 1: my parents and we're trying to navigate and get through. 693 00:39:03,920 --> 00:39:07,359 Speaker 1: And so that's kind of one representational narrative I would 694 00:39:07,400 --> 00:39:11,680 Speaker 1: love to see more is just more and different Black 695 00:39:11,719 --> 00:39:15,560 Speaker 1: women of all marital status backgrounds, but particularly single black 696 00:39:15,560 --> 00:39:19,080 Speaker 1: women who are comfortable the central focus of their life 697 00:39:19,160 --> 00:39:21,040 Speaker 1: is not finding a man, and we're just sort of 698 00:39:21,120 --> 00:39:24,480 Speaker 1: exploring how they're navigating the day to day stressors and 699 00:39:24,480 --> 00:39:29,680 Speaker 1: concerns of being unmarried. There's also a policy conversation that 700 00:39:29,719 --> 00:39:32,880 Speaker 1: we're not having in the media, one that we absolutely 701 00:39:32,920 --> 00:39:37,160 Speaker 1: need to start tending to because it has real implications 702 00:39:37,280 --> 00:39:40,520 Speaker 1: for financial security for black women, and that is the 703 00:39:40,600 --> 00:39:45,200 Speaker 1: marital status in equities that are baked into society. We 704 00:39:45,320 --> 00:39:49,040 Speaker 1: know that, for example, married couples pay less in taxes 705 00:39:49,160 --> 00:39:54,240 Speaker 1: as individuals than single people do. We know that there 706 00:39:54,280 --> 00:39:59,160 Speaker 1: are kind of cultural disincentives for being single, as you 707 00:39:59,160 --> 00:40:01,880 Speaker 1: talked about, as we spoke about in terms of girlfriends, 708 00:40:01,920 --> 00:40:05,400 Speaker 1: and how being single is despised and disparaged in popular 709 00:40:05,480 --> 00:40:08,880 Speaker 1: media and popular culture. So there's a cultural text to 710 00:40:08,960 --> 00:40:13,440 Speaker 1: being single. We know that there is. We don't have 711 00:40:13,480 --> 00:40:16,080 Speaker 1: single adults and have the same ability to kind of 712 00:40:16,400 --> 00:40:19,279 Speaker 1: name our systems of support in times of crisis. So 713 00:40:19,360 --> 00:40:22,920 Speaker 1: for example, if I was hospitalized, my parents would be 714 00:40:23,080 --> 00:40:25,879 Speaker 1: kind of who's authorized to be in that room, not 715 00:40:26,080 --> 00:40:28,319 Speaker 1: you know, perhaps a best girlfriend who I see on 716 00:40:28,360 --> 00:40:32,880 Speaker 1: a daily basis here in Detroit. And so we really 717 00:40:32,920 --> 00:40:36,239 Speaker 1: need to drill down on and focus in on policy 718 00:40:36,280 --> 00:40:41,160 Speaker 1: conversations related to single status and equities and how single 719 00:40:41,239 --> 00:40:46,640 Speaker 1: status and equities compound other forms of inequity. The key 720 00:40:46,800 --> 00:40:49,480 Speaker 1: kind of chief example that I have is like childcare 721 00:40:49,600 --> 00:40:54,360 Speaker 1: during the COVID nineteen crisis for working single adults. Where 722 00:40:54,520 --> 00:40:58,120 Speaker 1: is the system of support for these folks? Where is 723 00:40:58,160 --> 00:41:02,200 Speaker 1: the policy conversation around how I'm being taxed higher than 724 00:41:02,200 --> 00:41:05,680 Speaker 1: my married counterparts, but there's no infrastructure to support me 725 00:41:05,760 --> 00:41:07,920 Speaker 1: as I care for my children as I work outside 726 00:41:07,920 --> 00:41:10,279 Speaker 1: of the home. Do you know what I'm saying? And 727 00:41:10,320 --> 00:41:14,120 Speaker 1: so there's a policy conversation that we're desperately in need 728 00:41:14,160 --> 00:41:19,080 Speaker 1: of discussing, putting marital status and equity right alongside gender inequity, 729 00:41:19,200 --> 00:41:23,640 Speaker 1: right alongside racial inequities when it comes to thinking about 730 00:41:23,640 --> 00:41:28,360 Speaker 1: the economic, social, and kind of cultural place that unmarried 731 00:41:28,360 --> 00:41:33,000 Speaker 1: adults have in society. Mm hmmm, yeah, so many opportunities 732 00:41:33,000 --> 00:41:35,920 Speaker 1: for us to do just a better job of taking 733 00:41:35,960 --> 00:41:42,520 Speaker 1: care of like so many multiple marginalized people in our society. Absolutely, yeah, yeah, 734 00:41:42,880 --> 00:41:45,120 Speaker 1: So back to your comment around like what you would 735 00:41:45,120 --> 00:41:48,480 Speaker 1: love to see in media? Are there any shows right 736 00:41:48,520 --> 00:41:51,239 Speaker 1: now that you've been watching or other productions that you 737 00:41:51,239 --> 00:41:53,000 Speaker 1: think are doing a better job and kind of moving 738 00:41:53,000 --> 00:41:56,239 Speaker 1: in the direction that you like to see. I have 739 00:41:56,600 --> 00:42:00,600 Speaker 1: very intentionally been checked out from the current a moment, 740 00:42:01,600 --> 00:42:04,719 Speaker 1: So I'm watching right now Pole Dark on PBS. I 741 00:42:04,719 --> 00:42:06,680 Speaker 1: don't know if you're familiar with it, but it's a 742 00:42:06,840 --> 00:42:11,000 Speaker 1: bodice ripper from about a seventeen hundreds mining town in 743 00:42:11,160 --> 00:42:15,680 Speaker 1: England and ross. Pole Dark is in charge of a 744 00:42:15,760 --> 00:42:18,480 Speaker 1: mind and you know he's being held in jail and 745 00:42:18,520 --> 00:42:21,320 Speaker 1: all these things. So I'm like in a completely different 746 00:42:21,400 --> 00:42:26,680 Speaker 1: like era. But one of the kind of contemporary things 747 00:42:26,680 --> 00:42:31,239 Speaker 1: that I have seen is Lovecraft Country, and one of 748 00:42:31,320 --> 00:42:35,480 Speaker 1: the episodes that I truly loved in that series was 749 00:42:35,560 --> 00:42:40,440 Speaker 1: when Hippolyta had the ability to name herself whatever she wanted, 750 00:42:41,600 --> 00:42:44,080 Speaker 1: and this conversation that happened. It's like, you have the 751 00:42:44,080 --> 00:42:48,360 Speaker 1: power to name yourself, name yourself, that ability to a 752 00:42:48,520 --> 00:42:52,319 Speaker 1: gentically claim a space. And one of the things that 753 00:42:52,400 --> 00:42:54,799 Speaker 1: I loved about that episode was at one point she 754 00:42:54,920 --> 00:42:56,840 Speaker 1: named herself a wife. I want to be a wife, 755 00:42:57,920 --> 00:43:02,080 Speaker 1: and ended up having a really wonderful conversation with Courtney 756 00:43:02,080 --> 00:43:05,719 Speaker 1: b Vance's character her husband, about well, why would I 757 00:43:05,800 --> 00:43:07,759 Speaker 1: name myself a wife? I could be anything, I could 758 00:43:07,800 --> 00:43:11,719 Speaker 1: be Cleopatra? Why am I here? And what has your 759 00:43:11,880 --> 00:43:15,480 Speaker 1: role been in keeping me here? Why am I trying 760 00:43:15,480 --> 00:43:18,799 Speaker 1: to be small and fit with you when we can 761 00:43:18,840 --> 00:43:21,920 Speaker 1: be big together? And of course it wasn't simply being 762 00:43:22,000 --> 00:43:24,319 Speaker 1: married that limited to her to that rule. I'm not 763 00:43:24,400 --> 00:43:27,160 Speaker 1: making that claim at all, but sort of the dynamics 764 00:43:27,200 --> 00:43:32,560 Speaker 1: of that relationship and understanding how in conversation around how 765 00:43:32,600 --> 00:43:36,000 Speaker 1: her partner expected her to be small. It created limits 766 00:43:36,040 --> 00:43:39,040 Speaker 1: for both of them, and then the ability of her 767 00:43:39,160 --> 00:43:42,799 Speaker 1: to rename her world, she created a bigger world for 768 00:43:42,840 --> 00:43:45,719 Speaker 1: her partner as well. And I thought that was such 769 00:43:45,760 --> 00:43:50,240 Speaker 1: a sophisticated conversation about the roles that we expect black 770 00:43:50,239 --> 00:43:54,120 Speaker 1: women to occupy and the trade offs that we see 771 00:43:54,200 --> 00:43:58,640 Speaker 1: between autonomy. Independent gets such a bad rap, but we'll 772 00:43:58,680 --> 00:44:04,239 Speaker 1: call it autonomy, agency, self determination. How these facets of 773 00:44:04,640 --> 00:44:09,319 Speaker 1: humanity get really muted in a lot of contexts for 774 00:44:09,400 --> 00:44:13,080 Speaker 1: black women, work as a context. But in the conversation 775 00:44:13,160 --> 00:44:15,880 Speaker 1: happening on Love Country, Lovecraft Country, it was marriage. And 776 00:44:15,920 --> 00:44:18,400 Speaker 1: so I thought that was a very sophisticated conversation about 777 00:44:18,440 --> 00:44:25,000 Speaker 1: black marriage and a way to expand conversations about marriage 778 00:44:25,080 --> 00:44:29,120 Speaker 1: and expand conversations about partnership and think about ways that 779 00:44:29,160 --> 00:44:31,880 Speaker 1: black women can be self determined within any kind of 780 00:44:31,920 --> 00:44:36,000 Speaker 1: configuration of partnership that they choose. So I said, excuse me, 781 00:44:36,040 --> 00:44:39,879 Speaker 1: love Craft Country, good for you girl. Yeah that the moment, 782 00:44:39,920 --> 00:44:42,480 Speaker 1: I feel like you could do quite a great like 783 00:44:42,760 --> 00:44:45,799 Speaker 1: rundown and analysis of that episode, because I think a 784 00:44:45,800 --> 00:44:48,319 Speaker 1: lot of members of our community, you know, love the show, 785 00:44:48,440 --> 00:44:50,000 Speaker 1: or you know, at least tuned into the show in 786 00:44:50,040 --> 00:44:52,640 Speaker 1: some ways. But I saw a lot of commentary around 787 00:44:52,680 --> 00:44:56,279 Speaker 1: that particular episode from Sisters really kind of identifying with 788 00:44:56,360 --> 00:44:59,520 Speaker 1: you know, some of that comments area there. It was beautiful. 789 00:44:59,520 --> 00:45:01,719 Speaker 1: I cried so much in that episode. I was like, 790 00:45:01,760 --> 00:45:04,520 Speaker 1: I'm going to name myself whatever. I was given a 791 00:45:04,560 --> 00:45:08,239 Speaker 1: mission statement. We can name ourselves whatever we want. And 792 00:45:08,280 --> 00:45:11,040 Speaker 1: I will say this, in single life, you can do 793 00:45:11,120 --> 00:45:15,680 Speaker 1: that in ways that maybe you can't at other opportunities 794 00:45:15,719 --> 00:45:18,400 Speaker 1: in your life. You can name yourself in ways when 795 00:45:18,440 --> 00:45:20,719 Speaker 1: you're single that you can't, and other kind of configurations 796 00:45:20,760 --> 00:45:25,560 Speaker 1: of partnership. Right right. I appreciate you shearing it. So 797 00:45:25,800 --> 00:45:28,960 Speaker 1: remind people where they can find you. Your website as 798 00:45:28,960 --> 00:45:31,400 Speaker 1: well as any social media handles they can reach you on. 799 00:45:32,160 --> 00:45:35,640 Speaker 1: For a media scholar, I'm surprisingly lax on the website, 800 00:45:35,400 --> 00:45:40,120 Speaker 1: So yeah, y'all. On the website, yeah, but you can 801 00:45:40,160 --> 00:45:44,280 Speaker 1: find me on Instagram at dr period j D Mormon, 802 00:45:44,960 --> 00:45:48,160 Speaker 1: and that's where I act cute and keep it professional. 803 00:45:49,320 --> 00:45:51,720 Speaker 1: I'll be cutting up on that Twitter, y'all, and that's 804 00:45:52,400 --> 00:45:55,120 Speaker 1: at j D Mormon. Just that's my handle, and you 805 00:45:55,120 --> 00:45:57,040 Speaker 1: can watch me change my name to all manner of 806 00:45:57,040 --> 00:46:00,400 Speaker 1: colorful things and make loud comments about the twin twenty 807 00:46:00,400 --> 00:46:03,920 Speaker 1: election and everything we've got going on now. So I 808 00:46:03,960 --> 00:46:09,359 Speaker 1: always love your commentary, appreciate your Twitter candor. Thank you well. 809 00:46:09,360 --> 00:46:11,520 Speaker 1: Thank you again for joining us, doctor Woman, I really 810 00:46:11,560 --> 00:46:14,680 Speaker 1: appreciate it. I appreciate you. Dr Joy, thank you so 811 00:46:14,760 --> 00:46:17,000 Speaker 1: much for inviting me back. It's wonderful to talk to 812 00:46:17,000 --> 00:46:23,000 Speaker 1: you again. Thank you. I'm so glad Dr Mormon was 813 00:46:23,040 --> 00:46:26,359 Speaker 1: able to join us again for today's conversation. To learn 814 00:46:26,400 --> 00:46:29,040 Speaker 1: more about her and her work, or to check out 815 00:46:29,040 --> 00:46:32,439 Speaker 1: her first conversation here on the podcast, visit the show 816 00:46:32,480 --> 00:46:35,200 Speaker 1: notes at Therapy for Black Girls dot com slash session 817 00:46:36,840 --> 00:46:40,200 Speaker 1: and please text two sisters right now and tell them 818 00:46:40,239 --> 00:46:43,359 Speaker 1: to check out this episode. If there's a topic you'd 819 00:46:43,360 --> 00:46:46,319 Speaker 1: like to have covered on the podcast, submitted to us 820 00:46:46,360 --> 00:46:49,240 Speaker 1: at Therapy for Black Girls dot com slash mail box. 821 00:46:49,880 --> 00:46:52,000 Speaker 1: And if you're looking for a therapist in your area, 822 00:46:52,440 --> 00:46:55,320 Speaker 1: be sure to check out our therapist directory at Therapy 823 00:46:55,360 --> 00:46:58,600 Speaker 1: for Black Girls dot com slash directory. If you want 824 00:46:58,600 --> 00:47:01,600 Speaker 1: to continue digging into this topic and connect with some 825 00:47:01,680 --> 00:47:04,680 Speaker 1: other sisters across the country, come on over and join 826 00:47:04,760 --> 00:47:07,279 Speaker 1: us in the Yellow Couch Collective, where we take a 827 00:47:07,320 --> 00:47:10,080 Speaker 1: deeper dive into the topics from the podcast and just 828 00:47:10,160 --> 00:47:13,000 Speaker 1: about everything else. You can join us at Therapy for 829 00:47:13,040 --> 00:47:16,160 Speaker 1: Black Girls dot com slash y c C. Thank you 830 00:47:16,239 --> 00:47:18,640 Speaker 1: all so much for joining me again this week. I 831 00:47:18,719 --> 00:47:21,520 Speaker 1: look forward to continue in this conversation with you all 832 00:47:21,719 --> 00:47:23,560 Speaker 1: real soon. Take it care