WEBVTT - How Clean Coal Works

0:00:04.120 --> 0:00:07.160
<v Speaker 1>Get in touch with technology with tech Stuff from how

0:00:07.200 --> 0:00:13.680
<v Speaker 1>stuff Works dot Com. Hey there, and welcome to tech Stuff.

0:00:13.720 --> 0:00:16.880
<v Speaker 1>I'm your host, Jonathan Strickland. I'm an executive producer with

0:00:17.120 --> 0:00:19.800
<v Speaker 1>how Stuff Works in my Heart radio, and I love

0:00:19.960 --> 0:00:23.799
<v Speaker 1>all things tech. So today I want to take a

0:00:23.800 --> 0:00:27.880
<v Speaker 1>look at proposals for clean coal power plants and what

0:00:28.000 --> 0:00:32.000
<v Speaker 1>that actually means. And before I jump into that topic,

0:00:32.159 --> 0:00:34.720
<v Speaker 1>I do want to get this out of the way

0:00:35.000 --> 0:00:39.199
<v Speaker 1>because I want to be as honest and forthright as

0:00:39.200 --> 0:00:43.519
<v Speaker 1>I possibly can be. I'm in favor of renewable energy sources.

0:00:44.320 --> 0:00:47.680
<v Speaker 1>I'm also in favor of pursuing research into nuclear fusion

0:00:47.880 --> 0:00:50.760
<v Speaker 1>as a power source, if in fact that is possible

0:00:50.760 --> 0:00:54.520
<v Speaker 1>to make a sustainable, effective power source. I'm very much

0:00:54.560 --> 0:01:01.080
<v Speaker 1>in favor of getting off of all fossil fuels, particularly coal. However,

0:01:01.680 --> 0:01:06.080
<v Speaker 1>I will do my best to discuss this topic without bias,

0:01:06.120 --> 0:01:10.640
<v Speaker 1>in other words, without just constantly spitting on coal. And

0:01:10.760 --> 0:01:13.440
<v Speaker 1>even an advocate for clean energy like me has to

0:01:13.480 --> 0:01:18.640
<v Speaker 1>admit there are enormous challenges in the way of weaning

0:01:18.680 --> 0:01:21.920
<v Speaker 1>ourselves off of coal and other fossil fuels as an

0:01:22.000 --> 0:01:24.760
<v Speaker 1>energy source. There are big things we have to be

0:01:24.800 --> 0:01:27.600
<v Speaker 1>able to make work for that to happen. So we're

0:01:27.640 --> 0:01:30.240
<v Speaker 1>gonna talk about those two because it's important to look

0:01:30.240 --> 0:01:33.560
<v Speaker 1>at these problems from a big picture perspective and to

0:01:33.640 --> 0:01:36.959
<v Speaker 1>not just ignore the very real hurdles that are in

0:01:37.000 --> 0:01:40.080
<v Speaker 1>our way, because if we do, if we ignore those hurdles,

0:01:40.440 --> 0:01:43.080
<v Speaker 1>then we set ourselves up for failure when we try

0:01:43.160 --> 0:01:46.880
<v Speaker 1>to change things. If we acknowledge the challenges, then maybe

0:01:46.959 --> 0:01:49.560
<v Speaker 1>we can figure out a way of getting around them,

0:01:49.600 --> 0:01:54.400
<v Speaker 1>over them, or through them. So what is coal. I've

0:01:54.440 --> 0:01:57.800
<v Speaker 1>already mentioned that it's a fossil fuel, but what that

0:01:57.840 --> 0:02:01.040
<v Speaker 1>really means is that originally comes from or gain nic material,

0:02:01.440 --> 0:02:06.040
<v Speaker 1>most notably pete. Pete is a large source of a

0:02:06.080 --> 0:02:09.480
<v Speaker 1>lot of the coal that we use today. So this

0:02:09.840 --> 0:02:15.680
<v Speaker 1>organic material accumulates, it gets buried over times of animals die,

0:02:15.760 --> 0:02:20.960
<v Speaker 1>plants die, they decompose, they get buried by sand and

0:02:21.120 --> 0:02:24.320
<v Speaker 1>other stuff, and centuries go by and more and more

0:02:24.400 --> 0:02:29.440
<v Speaker 1>layers build up around this material, and the material then

0:02:29.520 --> 0:02:33.280
<v Speaker 1>starts to compact under all that pressure, and the temperature

0:02:33.320 --> 0:02:39.760
<v Speaker 1>grows because it's under pressure like the Wonderful Queen and

0:02:39.880 --> 0:02:43.480
<v Speaker 1>uh David Boisong. And then as it has all of

0:02:43.560 --> 0:02:47.000
<v Speaker 1>this pressure and heat, the material hardens into a rock

0:02:47.520 --> 0:02:50.440
<v Speaker 1>like substance and it turns into coal. So to call

0:02:50.480 --> 0:02:53.720
<v Speaker 1>it coal, it has to contain a significant amount of

0:02:53.960 --> 0:02:59.600
<v Speaker 1>carbonaceous material by weight or volume. Carbonaceous just means that

0:02:59.720 --> 0:03:03.800
<v Speaker 1>it has to contain carbon or carbon compounds. The amount

0:03:03.840 --> 0:03:07.080
<v Speaker 1>and type of carbon and coal determines how much energy

0:03:07.440 --> 0:03:11.320
<v Speaker 1>the coal contains, and really, to us, what that mostly

0:03:11.360 --> 0:03:14.760
<v Speaker 1>means is how much heat the coal is capable of

0:03:14.800 --> 0:03:19.600
<v Speaker 1>producing when it is burned when it's combusted in a furnace. This,

0:03:19.680 --> 0:03:22.320
<v Speaker 1>in turn is dependent upon a few things, including how

0:03:22.400 --> 0:03:24.680
<v Speaker 1>much heat and pressure went into creating the coal in

0:03:24.720 --> 0:03:28.000
<v Speaker 1>the first place. There are a lot of different ways

0:03:28.000 --> 0:03:31.840
<v Speaker 1>of classifying coal, but there are four main ranks of coal.

0:03:32.400 --> 0:03:36.680
<v Speaker 1>There's anthracite coal, and that has at least eight ton

0:03:37.920 --> 0:03:41.480
<v Speaker 1>carbon in it. This coal has the highest heating value

0:03:41.600 --> 0:03:44.720
<v Speaker 1>of coal, and there ain't a lot of it. It's

0:03:44.760 --> 0:03:48.080
<v Speaker 1>not plentiful in the United States. Less than one percent

0:03:48.240 --> 0:03:52.240
<v Speaker 1>of all the coal mind in the country ranks as anthracite.

0:03:52.760 --> 0:03:55.320
<v Speaker 1>The one place in the United States where it is

0:03:55.440 --> 0:03:59.360
<v Speaker 1>mined right now is Pennsylvania. This coal is used nearly

0:03:59.400 --> 0:04:03.680
<v Speaker 1>exclusively by the metals industry. Coal blaze an important part

0:04:03.720 --> 0:04:07.600
<v Speaker 1>in producing various types of metal and metallurgy. Then you

0:04:07.640 --> 0:04:13.560
<v Speaker 1>have by tuminous coal. Bituminous coal contains between forty five

0:04:13.600 --> 0:04:17.400
<v Speaker 1>to eighty six carbon, and this makes up nearly half

0:04:17.640 --> 0:04:20.919
<v Speaker 1>of all the coal mind in the United States. Specifically,

0:04:20.920 --> 0:04:24.560
<v Speaker 1>it's around for of all the coal we mine here

0:04:24.560 --> 0:04:28.520
<v Speaker 1>in the US. This is the coal that's used primarily

0:04:28.680 --> 0:04:33.600
<v Speaker 1>for coal burning power plants for generating electricity. It's also

0:04:33.760 --> 0:04:37.160
<v Speaker 1>used in iron and steel industries. Five states in the

0:04:37.240 --> 0:04:40.640
<v Speaker 1>United States produced nearly all of the coal for the

0:04:40.800 --> 0:04:46.279
<v Speaker 1>entire country. Those five states are West Virginia, Pennsylvania, Kentucky, Illinois,

0:04:46.520 --> 0:04:51.599
<v Speaker 1>and Indiana. Then you have sub bituminous coal that contains

0:04:51.640 --> 0:04:56.559
<v Speaker 1>between thirty five carbon, so as less carbon. You'll notice

0:04:56.560 --> 0:04:58.920
<v Speaker 1>in these ranks were going down by the amount of

0:04:58.960 --> 0:05:01.960
<v Speaker 1>percentage of carbon the material. It also has a lower

0:05:02.000 --> 0:05:05.480
<v Speaker 1>heating value. It doesn't burn as hot as bituminous coal.

0:05:05.839 --> 0:05:09.039
<v Speaker 1>It makes up about for of all coal production in

0:05:09.040 --> 0:05:12.280
<v Speaker 1>the US. So sub by tuminous and bituminous coal make

0:05:12.360 --> 0:05:16.080
<v Speaker 1>up when you add it up. And remember the anthracite

0:05:16.120 --> 0:05:18.719
<v Speaker 1>makes up less than one percent, so the rest of

0:05:18.760 --> 0:05:21.840
<v Speaker 1>it is made up of lignite. As the last rank,

0:05:21.920 --> 0:05:26.279
<v Speaker 1>it contains only twenty carbon. This stuff can convert into

0:05:26.360 --> 0:05:29.719
<v Speaker 1>synthetic natural gas with some processing. We also call it

0:05:29.920 --> 0:05:33.840
<v Speaker 1>sin gas s y n G A S, and i'll

0:05:33.880 --> 0:05:37.920
<v Speaker 1>talk about that again a little bit later in this episode. Now,

0:05:38.000 --> 0:05:41.279
<v Speaker 1>human beings have been using coal for at least three

0:05:41.320 --> 0:05:45.920
<v Speaker 1>thousand years, though many early references to coal actually are

0:05:45.960 --> 0:05:50.000
<v Speaker 1>referring to charcoal, not to the stuff we mine out

0:05:50.000 --> 0:05:53.000
<v Speaker 1>of the ground. Charcoal is not the same thing as coal.

0:05:53.600 --> 0:05:57.040
<v Speaker 1>Charcoal is what you get when you remove water and

0:05:57.080 --> 0:06:00.919
<v Speaker 1>several compounds from wood, and typically you do this in

0:06:00.960 --> 0:06:03.920
<v Speaker 1>a low oxygen environment, and you would apply a lot

0:06:03.960 --> 0:06:06.920
<v Speaker 1>of heat to the wood. So if it were a

0:06:07.000 --> 0:06:09.919
<v Speaker 1>high oxygen environment, the wood would catch fire and burn,

0:06:10.279 --> 0:06:13.800
<v Speaker 1>but because it's low oxygen, that reaction can't happen. We

0:06:13.880 --> 0:06:16.679
<v Speaker 1>remember the triangle that you need in order to make fire.

0:06:17.200 --> 0:06:19.560
<v Speaker 1>You have to have heat, and you have to have fuel,

0:06:19.880 --> 0:06:24.040
<v Speaker 1>and you have to have an oxidizer, typically oxygen. So

0:06:24.480 --> 0:06:26.880
<v Speaker 1>you're not you're you're you're heating up in a low

0:06:26.920 --> 0:06:30.960
<v Speaker 1>oxygen environment, you're essentially cooking the wood. The technical term

0:06:31.000 --> 0:06:34.400
<v Speaker 1>for this would be pyrolysis. So again you're not burning it,

0:06:34.520 --> 0:06:38.159
<v Speaker 1>you're just removing moisture and heating up the wood in

0:06:38.200 --> 0:06:41.040
<v Speaker 1>this low oxygen environment, and you end up with about

0:06:41.080 --> 0:06:43.320
<v Speaker 1>a quarter of the mass that you started with, or

0:06:43.360 --> 0:06:47.840
<v Speaker 1>a quarter by weight, So all those compounds in the

0:06:47.839 --> 0:06:50.440
<v Speaker 1>water make up a lot of the weight, the majority

0:06:50.440 --> 0:06:52.680
<v Speaker 1>of the weight of the wood, so you end up

0:06:52.680 --> 0:06:55.880
<v Speaker 1>with something that's about the weight of whatever you started with.

0:06:57.200 --> 0:07:01.799
<v Speaker 1>Now we've used coal, the mineral, the stuff we mine

0:07:02.320 --> 0:07:06.440
<v Speaker 1>for a really long time, uh, But the widespread, large

0:07:06.480 --> 0:07:09.440
<v Speaker 1>scale use of coal, the industrial use of coal, really

0:07:09.440 --> 0:07:12.440
<v Speaker 1>didn't get going until the eighteenth century. That's when you

0:07:12.480 --> 0:07:17.120
<v Speaker 1>had inventors like Abraham Darby who developed methods for using

0:07:17.160 --> 0:07:23.160
<v Speaker 1>coal in blast furnaces. And the Industrial Revolution, which really

0:07:23.200 --> 0:07:25.920
<v Speaker 1>began in England and then spread throughout the rest of

0:07:25.920 --> 0:07:29.880
<v Speaker 1>the world, saw an enormous need for coal, and that

0:07:30.000 --> 0:07:33.720
<v Speaker 1>pushed the mining industry from being sort of a modest effort.

0:07:34.280 --> 0:07:37.560
<v Speaker 1>And there were mines that existed before the Industrial Revolution,

0:07:37.640 --> 0:07:42.240
<v Speaker 1>but the need for coal was much more modest then,

0:07:42.360 --> 0:07:45.760
<v Speaker 1>so they were very much surface minds. At this point,

0:07:45.880 --> 0:07:49.600
<v Speaker 1>the need for coal was voracious, so mine started getting

0:07:49.680 --> 0:07:55.320
<v Speaker 1>deeper and going further and requiring way more manpower to operate.

0:07:56.200 --> 0:08:00.480
<v Speaker 1>It became an enormous enterprise, employing thousands of people, tens

0:08:00.520 --> 0:08:04.280
<v Speaker 1>of thousands of people. Coal mining became a lucrative but

0:08:04.560 --> 0:08:10.480
<v Speaker 1>dangerous business. Miners encountered deadly gases, some of them explosive,

0:08:10.680 --> 0:08:13.679
<v Speaker 1>so if you were to create a spark while mining,

0:08:14.080 --> 0:08:17.520
<v Speaker 1>you could ignite that explosive gas and have have a

0:08:17.640 --> 0:08:23.120
<v Speaker 1>true catastrophe. Some gases are poisonous. Uh, there was always

0:08:23.120 --> 0:08:25.920
<v Speaker 1>an issue with flooding. That was always a danger with

0:08:26.000 --> 0:08:29.200
<v Speaker 1>mine chefts. There was also the possibility of mine chefts collapsing,

0:08:29.760 --> 0:08:32.920
<v Speaker 1>but the demand for coal created enough of a reward

0:08:33.440 --> 0:08:36.120
<v Speaker 1>to merit the risk, at least in the minds of

0:08:36.160 --> 0:08:38.959
<v Speaker 1>the coal mine owners, if not the actual miners who

0:08:38.960 --> 0:08:42.000
<v Speaker 1>were doing the work. Britain led the way in coal

0:08:42.040 --> 0:08:46.520
<v Speaker 1>mining in this early time in the eighteenth century, and

0:08:46.600 --> 0:08:51.080
<v Speaker 1>because it was plentiful, lower rank coal in England, not

0:08:51.200 --> 0:08:53.880
<v Speaker 1>the stuff that we would use today to generate electricity,

0:08:54.000 --> 0:08:57.480
<v Speaker 1>would frequently be used as a fuel to warm homes

0:08:57.880 --> 0:09:00.400
<v Speaker 1>in coal furnaces. So you have a furnace, throw some

0:09:00.440 --> 0:09:03.560
<v Speaker 1>coal in there and that was what would generate heat.

0:09:03.960 --> 0:09:06.920
<v Speaker 1>That created a lot of air pollution in England. London,

0:09:07.160 --> 0:09:10.960
<v Speaker 1>which had a reputation for heavy fogs, was frequently blanketed

0:09:11.200 --> 0:09:15.320
<v Speaker 1>in smog, and smog, of course, is made up of

0:09:15.960 --> 0:09:20.959
<v Speaker 1>particulate matter that comes out of burning fossil fuels, particularly coal.

0:09:21.640 --> 0:09:25.440
<v Speaker 1>This peaked in nineteen fifty two with the Great Smog

0:09:25.600 --> 0:09:29.200
<v Speaker 1>of London, which produced a smog so thick and so

0:09:29.320 --> 0:09:33.480
<v Speaker 1>persistent it reduced visibility drastically to just a few meters,

0:09:34.120 --> 0:09:38.160
<v Speaker 1>and it had an enormously negative impact on citizen health.

0:09:38.280 --> 0:09:42.280
<v Speaker 1>People started developing really terrible respiratory illnesses as a result.

0:09:42.800 --> 0:09:47.720
<v Speaker 1>So what does burning coal produce, apart from heat that

0:09:47.800 --> 0:09:50.840
<v Speaker 1>we can use in applications like boiling water into steam

0:09:50.920 --> 0:09:54.560
<v Speaker 1>to turn a turbine and generate electricity. Well, the burning

0:09:54.600 --> 0:09:58.720
<v Speaker 1>process breaks the chemical bonds between the atoms and coal.

0:09:59.120 --> 0:10:02.480
<v Speaker 1>Those molecular bonds get broken and that's what releases energy

0:10:03.000 --> 0:10:07.400
<v Speaker 1>and also several potential pollutants, including contaminants that could be

0:10:07.440 --> 0:10:11.600
<v Speaker 1>part of the coal. That can include stuff like mercury,

0:10:11.640 --> 0:10:15.120
<v Speaker 1>which is a toxic heavy metal. Mercury is dangerous stuff.

0:10:15.160 --> 0:10:18.160
<v Speaker 1>It can damage health in numerous ways. It can cause

0:10:18.240 --> 0:10:22.679
<v Speaker 1>damage to the nervous system, the digestive system, the immune system.

0:10:22.679 --> 0:10:26.360
<v Speaker 1>In fourteen, US coal plants emitted more than forty five

0:10:26.559 --> 0:10:31.880
<v Speaker 1>thousand pounds of mercury coal plants are responsible for of

0:10:32.080 --> 0:10:36.439
<v Speaker 1>all mercury emissions in the United States, so that's a

0:10:36.480 --> 0:10:39.720
<v Speaker 1>big one. Sulfur dioxide is another one that's an emission

0:10:39.760 --> 0:10:43.800
<v Speaker 1>that's very dangerous. Coal frequently has sulfur in it, and

0:10:43.840 --> 0:10:47.240
<v Speaker 1>when sulfur reacts with oxygen during the coal burning process,

0:10:47.280 --> 0:10:49.360
<v Speaker 1>because again you need to have that oxygen to have

0:10:49.440 --> 0:10:53.960
<v Speaker 1>combustion happen, you end up getting sulfur oxide, and that

0:10:54.040 --> 0:10:57.880
<v Speaker 1>sulfur oxide can combine with other molecules. These emissions are

0:10:57.880 --> 0:11:04.200
<v Speaker 1>harmful to us. Also, sulfur dioxide, once it has reacted fully,

0:11:04.480 --> 0:11:07.920
<v Speaker 1>it's got a strong link to acid rain, so that's

0:11:08.120 --> 0:11:12.800
<v Speaker 1>terrible also to smog and can be linked to problems

0:11:12.800 --> 0:11:16.200
<v Speaker 1>like bronchitis and asthma. Then you also have nitrogen oxides.

0:11:16.520 --> 0:11:19.720
<v Speaker 1>It's another byproduct that it can also contribute to smog,

0:11:20.240 --> 0:11:23.800
<v Speaker 1>and it also can end up leading to the development

0:11:23.800 --> 0:11:28.080
<v Speaker 1>of respiratory ailments or make existing respiratory ailments much much worse.

0:11:29.200 --> 0:11:31.240
<v Speaker 1>These are just a sample of some of the pollutants

0:11:31.280 --> 0:11:34.880
<v Speaker 1>that can come out of burning coal. You also get

0:11:34.920 --> 0:11:40.560
<v Speaker 1>coal ash. Uh. These are also called coal combustion residuals

0:11:40.679 --> 0:11:44.600
<v Speaker 1>or CCRs, and this is actually again a collection of stuff.

0:11:44.640 --> 0:11:48.160
<v Speaker 1>It's not just one thing. Um. There's fly ash, which

0:11:48.200 --> 0:11:50.800
<v Speaker 1>is mostly made of silica, which is powdery and very

0:11:50.880 --> 0:11:54.480
<v Speaker 1>very fine. There's bottom ash, which is made up of large,

0:11:54.679 --> 0:11:58.120
<v Speaker 1>coarse ash particles. These particles are too large for heat

0:11:58.160 --> 0:12:00.680
<v Speaker 1>to carry them up the smoke stack of power plants,

0:12:00.920 --> 0:12:03.360
<v Speaker 1>so they tend to gather at the bottom of furnaces.

0:12:04.000 --> 0:12:08.000
<v Speaker 1>There are some types of furnaces that create molten ash,

0:12:08.240 --> 0:12:11.480
<v Speaker 1>also called boiler slag, which has to be drained or

0:12:11.600 --> 0:12:15.880
<v Speaker 1>drawn out of furnaces regularly using a tap, and typically

0:12:16.440 --> 0:12:19.880
<v Speaker 1>you would cool this mixture with water and at that

0:12:19.920 --> 0:12:23.680
<v Speaker 1>point the ash turns into glassy pellets. And then there's

0:12:23.720 --> 0:12:29.040
<v Speaker 1>the flu gas desulfurization material, which is a byproduct produced

0:12:29.040 --> 0:12:33.280
<v Speaker 1>by a sulfur dioxide emission reduction process. It's typically either

0:12:33.320 --> 0:12:36.120
<v Speaker 1>a dry, powdered material or a wet sludge, depending upon

0:12:36.120 --> 0:12:39.480
<v Speaker 1>the reduction method employed. I'll talk more about that in

0:12:39.559 --> 0:12:43.559
<v Speaker 1>our next section. Now, coal ash also contains dangerous stuff

0:12:43.559 --> 0:12:47.360
<v Speaker 1>in it, like lead, cadmium, arsenic, and mercury, and for

0:12:47.400 --> 0:12:50.320
<v Speaker 1>that reason, regulatory agencies like the e p A, the

0:12:50.400 --> 0:12:55.040
<v Speaker 1>environment Environmental Protection Agency, maintain pretty strict rules about how

0:12:55.080 --> 0:12:58.400
<v Speaker 1>power plants may dispose of coal ash to prevent contaminants

0:12:58.400 --> 0:13:03.040
<v Speaker 1>from polluting the environment. These regulations under more recent years

0:13:03.080 --> 0:13:11.240
<v Speaker 1>have been scrutinized and somewhat cut back due to political

0:13:11.280 --> 0:13:14.040
<v Speaker 1>maneuvers by people who are in the e p A

0:13:14.120 --> 0:13:19.720
<v Speaker 1>who previously came from the coal and power utility industries.

0:13:20.320 --> 0:13:22.760
<v Speaker 1>I'll talk more about that because one of the big

0:13:22.840 --> 0:13:25.720
<v Speaker 1>challenges we have to look at isn't a technological challenge.

0:13:25.960 --> 0:13:29.280
<v Speaker 1>It's not a scientific challenge, it's a political challenge. So

0:13:30.400 --> 0:13:33.280
<v Speaker 1>burning coal releases a lot of energy that's useful, but

0:13:33.360 --> 0:13:36.120
<v Speaker 1>it also produces stuff that's harmful to us and to

0:13:36.160 --> 0:13:42.200
<v Speaker 1>the environment. And coal is plentiful and cheap, so it

0:13:42.240 --> 0:13:45.360
<v Speaker 1>makes it a very attractive energy source. It definitely has

0:13:45.400 --> 0:13:50.280
<v Speaker 1>its downsides. The pollutants are undeniably bad, but the fuel

0:13:50.320 --> 0:13:53.959
<v Speaker 1>source is easy to get, and that's one of the

0:13:54.000 --> 0:13:57.040
<v Speaker 1>big reasons why it's hard to wean ourselves off of

0:13:57.120 --> 0:14:02.880
<v Speaker 1>coal that's cheap and other options are less cheap. So

0:14:03.240 --> 0:14:07.000
<v Speaker 1>how do experts propose to mitigate the pollution problems? In

0:14:07.040 --> 0:14:09.160
<v Speaker 1>the next section, we're going to take a look at

0:14:09.240 --> 0:14:12.280
<v Speaker 1>what clean coal is and how it works and try

0:14:12.320 --> 0:14:16.000
<v Speaker 1>to answer the question how clean is it really? But first,

0:14:16.080 --> 0:14:26.600
<v Speaker 1>let's take a quick break to thank our sponsor. All right,

0:14:26.680 --> 0:14:28.680
<v Speaker 1>let's get this out of the way first. Clean coal

0:14:28.840 --> 0:14:33.640
<v Speaker 1>refers to processes and technology, not to coal itself. The

0:14:33.680 --> 0:14:37.960
<v Speaker 1>coal used in clean coal applications is just as dirty

0:14:38.160 --> 0:14:42.600
<v Speaker 1>as coal thrown into an otherwise unremarkable blast furnace, and

0:14:42.680 --> 0:14:46.000
<v Speaker 1>coal is the dirtiest of fossil fuels, meaning that it

0:14:46.040 --> 0:14:49.920
<v Speaker 1>produces more pollution and a wider variety of pollutants per

0:14:50.040 --> 0:14:54.160
<v Speaker 1>unit burn than any other fossil fuel. However, the fact

0:14:54.200 --> 0:14:58.760
<v Speaker 1>that coal is plentiful and inexpensive means it's likely to

0:14:58.800 --> 0:15:02.800
<v Speaker 1>remain important in major industries like generating electricity for quite

0:15:02.840 --> 0:15:07.040
<v Speaker 1>some time unless something major changes. So engineers have dedicated

0:15:07.040 --> 0:15:09.960
<v Speaker 1>a lot of time, research, and effort into creating systems

0:15:10.040 --> 0:15:13.280
<v Speaker 1>that can limit the amount of pollution emitted into the environment.

0:15:13.760 --> 0:15:17.120
<v Speaker 1>There are procedures that can reduce some of the stuff

0:15:17.760 --> 0:15:21.200
<v Speaker 1>that would otherwise be released when you burn coal. And

0:15:21.240 --> 0:15:25.360
<v Speaker 1>this is another important point. There's no single process that

0:15:25.560 --> 0:15:29.800
<v Speaker 1>is good for reducing all pollutants. There's no one system

0:15:30.000 --> 0:15:33.560
<v Speaker 1>that we can put coal through and get clean air

0:15:33.600 --> 0:15:35.520
<v Speaker 1>coming out of the smoke stack. On the other side,

0:15:36.120 --> 0:15:39.280
<v Speaker 1>there are lots of individual systems that are really effective

0:15:39.520 --> 0:15:44.120
<v Speaker 1>or pretty effective at reducing one or more of the pollutants,

0:15:44.160 --> 0:15:47.440
<v Speaker 1>but there's no single approach that gets everything. So if

0:15:47.440 --> 0:15:51.080
<v Speaker 1>you wanted to burn coal with a bare minimum environmental impact,

0:15:51.480 --> 0:15:54.520
<v Speaker 1>you would have to employ multiple methods and thus have

0:15:54.600 --> 0:15:57.160
<v Speaker 1>a more complicated system. And we'll talk a little bit

0:15:57.200 --> 0:16:01.320
<v Speaker 1>more and a bit about why that's a big challenge. Now.

0:16:01.360 --> 0:16:04.880
<v Speaker 1>One of the methods you could use to have a

0:16:04.960 --> 0:16:09.240
<v Speaker 1>clean coal application is called coal washing, and it's pretty

0:16:09.320 --> 0:16:12.600
<v Speaker 1>much what it sounds like. There are two main approaches

0:16:12.680 --> 0:16:16.200
<v Speaker 1>you can take. One involves a physical process in which

0:16:16.240 --> 0:16:19.760
<v Speaker 1>you rely upon the different densities of the various contaminants

0:16:19.840 --> 0:16:23.480
<v Speaker 1>found in coal to be able to separate them out

0:16:23.560 --> 0:16:27.240
<v Speaker 1>and remove them and leave the coal behind. The other

0:16:27.480 --> 0:16:32.080
<v Speaker 1>relies upon chemical processes to remove those same contaminants. The

0:16:32.120 --> 0:16:34.920
<v Speaker 1>most common of the two is the physical approach, not

0:16:34.960 --> 0:16:37.880
<v Speaker 1>the chemical approach. Chemical approach is still one of those

0:16:37.880 --> 0:16:42.920
<v Speaker 1>things that's constantly being studied, but so far, as far

0:16:42.960 --> 0:16:45.640
<v Speaker 1>as I can tell, has not been scaled up to

0:16:45.720 --> 0:16:48.720
<v Speaker 1>a degree where it could actually be used practically in

0:16:48.840 --> 0:16:54.400
<v Speaker 1>widespread applications. So with coal washing, with the physical approach,

0:16:54.840 --> 0:16:57.480
<v Speaker 1>you take the raw coal that you've mined out of

0:16:57.480 --> 0:17:00.240
<v Speaker 1>the ground, and then you use some heavy machinery to

0:17:00.320 --> 0:17:03.760
<v Speaker 1>crush it up into much smaller pieces. You sift the

0:17:03.840 --> 0:17:07.800
<v Speaker 1>crushed coal and you separate it into different sized particles

0:17:08.520 --> 0:17:11.040
<v Speaker 1>um and you can use a series of sieves this

0:17:11.080 --> 0:17:13.280
<v Speaker 1>way right. You can use one that's very fine, and

0:17:13.320 --> 0:17:15.840
<v Speaker 1>that way only the smallest particles come through. And once

0:17:15.840 --> 0:17:18.439
<v Speaker 1>you've got all those out, you transfer the material to

0:17:18.720 --> 0:17:22.639
<v Speaker 1>a sieve that has slightly larger grids in it, so

0:17:22.680 --> 0:17:26.119
<v Speaker 1>that way slightly larger particles can come through. You do

0:17:26.160 --> 0:17:28.960
<v Speaker 1>this several times until you've divided up the coal particles

0:17:28.960 --> 0:17:33.320
<v Speaker 1>into different piles, and then you put them through their

0:17:33.320 --> 0:17:37.400
<v Speaker 1>respective cleaning processes. The process is pretty much the same

0:17:37.440 --> 0:17:39.439
<v Speaker 1>for each one. It just it makes it easier to

0:17:39.520 --> 0:17:42.880
<v Speaker 1>divide them up, so they all tend to work essentially

0:17:42.880 --> 0:17:45.840
<v Speaker 1>the same way. You put the coal particles into a

0:17:45.880 --> 0:17:51.040
<v Speaker 1>container like a vat, and it has jets water jets

0:17:51.080 --> 0:17:55.600
<v Speaker 1>in it that can push water up through the coal,

0:17:56.280 --> 0:17:59.720
<v Speaker 1>and it creates this upward current. The coal is lighter

0:18:00.040 --> 0:18:03.359
<v Speaker 1>than the contaminants, so the coal gets pushed towards the

0:18:03.400 --> 0:18:07.000
<v Speaker 1>top the contaminants to sink towards the bottom and you

0:18:07.040 --> 0:18:10.280
<v Speaker 1>can then separate out the coal from the contaminants. This way,

0:18:10.440 --> 0:18:12.800
<v Speaker 1>then you have to dry the coal before you can

0:18:12.880 --> 0:18:15.280
<v Speaker 1>use as a fuel. That's a process takes quite a

0:18:15.280 --> 0:18:18.280
<v Speaker 1>bit of time and energy in itself. Uh. It reduces

0:18:18.320 --> 0:18:24.080
<v Speaker 1>but does not eliminate all pollutants. So you could reduce, however,

0:18:24.280 --> 0:18:26.560
<v Speaker 1>you know the amount of pollutants you're releasing into the atmosphere,

0:18:26.600 --> 0:18:30.720
<v Speaker 1>but you don't eliminate them entirely, and it requires energy

0:18:30.760 --> 0:18:34.119
<v Speaker 1>to do this system. That's something that we also have

0:18:34.160 --> 0:18:36.800
<v Speaker 1>to keep in mind in each of these steps is

0:18:36.840 --> 0:18:40.200
<v Speaker 1>that the whole purpose of using coal in the first

0:18:40.240 --> 0:18:43.800
<v Speaker 1>place is to generate electricity, at least in the applications

0:18:43.800 --> 0:18:46.480
<v Speaker 1>I'm talking about here. But if you have to dedicate

0:18:47.119 --> 0:18:50.960
<v Speaker 1>energy towards the process, that means you're you're eating into

0:18:51.000 --> 0:18:53.760
<v Speaker 1>your own returns. Right. If your goal is to create

0:18:53.800 --> 0:18:58.000
<v Speaker 1>electricity and you're having to use some energy in your process,

0:18:58.040 --> 0:18:59.840
<v Speaker 1>more and more of the energy and your process to

0:19:00.160 --> 0:19:04.680
<v Speaker 1>get acceptable to generate electricity in this way, then you're

0:19:04.680 --> 0:19:07.800
<v Speaker 1>eating into your own ability to generate the thing you're selling.

0:19:08.480 --> 0:19:12.399
<v Speaker 1>You're you're eating into your own revenue, if you like. So.

0:19:12.440 --> 0:19:17.080
<v Speaker 1>Another process focuses on the gas generated from burning coal.

0:19:17.520 --> 0:19:20.479
<v Speaker 1>Using what are called wet scrubbers, you can treat that

0:19:20.640 --> 0:19:25.040
<v Speaker 1>gas so that a chemical reaction renders otherwise harmful emissions

0:19:25.080 --> 0:19:27.160
<v Speaker 1>inert This is what I was talking about a little

0:19:27.160 --> 0:19:30.880
<v Speaker 1>bit earlier in the last section. So sulfur dioxide, which

0:19:30.920 --> 0:19:33.120
<v Speaker 1>can react with other gases in the atmosphere and create

0:19:33.160 --> 0:19:35.679
<v Speaker 1>fine particles that are harmful to the environment and to

0:19:35.720 --> 0:19:38.560
<v Speaker 1>the health of humans, is a great example. Sulfur dioxide

0:19:38.560 --> 0:19:43.440
<v Speaker 1>scrubber is a flu gas desulfurization technology. As the gases

0:19:43.480 --> 0:19:47.280
<v Speaker 1>from burning coal moves from the furnace into a special chamber,

0:19:47.840 --> 0:19:52.840
<v Speaker 1>nozzles spray a slurry made up of limestone and water.

0:19:53.760 --> 0:19:56.560
<v Speaker 1>Limestone has calcium in it, and the calcium in the

0:19:56.600 --> 0:20:01.360
<v Speaker 1>limestone reacts chemically with the sulfur dioxide. The main byproduct

0:20:01.960 --> 0:20:06.040
<v Speaker 1>is a substance called calcium sulfate. You have this chemical

0:20:06.080 --> 0:20:08.560
<v Speaker 1>reaction and you get calcium sulfate as a result, also

0:20:08.600 --> 0:20:12.159
<v Speaker 1>known as synthetic gypsum. This stuff can be used in

0:20:12.200 --> 0:20:15.840
<v Speaker 1>other materials, including cement, so you can actually put it

0:20:15.880 --> 0:20:19.160
<v Speaker 1>to use elsewhere, which helps bring down the cost. Right

0:20:19.160 --> 0:20:23.359
<v Speaker 1>if you can, if you can put a byproduct to

0:20:23.560 --> 0:20:26.440
<v Speaker 1>use it brings down the overall cost of the process

0:20:26.440 --> 0:20:29.840
<v Speaker 1>because you recapture some of that by repurposing the material.

0:20:30.240 --> 0:20:33.359
<v Speaker 1>Discrubbers can move a lot, but not all, of the

0:20:33.359 --> 0:20:36.720
<v Speaker 1>sulfur dioxide emissions from coal firing plants if they are

0:20:36.760 --> 0:20:41.320
<v Speaker 1>properly used. Nitrogen Oxides are another problem, and they require

0:20:41.320 --> 0:20:45.000
<v Speaker 1>a different approach. Nitrogen Oxides are a group of highly

0:20:45.040 --> 0:20:50.000
<v Speaker 1>reactive gases that are poisonous. Coal combustion produces fuel nitrogen

0:20:50.080 --> 0:20:55.840
<v Speaker 1>oxide and thermal nitrogen oxide. Nitrogen can't be removed ahead

0:20:55.880 --> 0:20:58.520
<v Speaker 1>of time from coal, so the only options you have

0:20:58.560 --> 0:21:01.480
<v Speaker 1>to come up with are away to remove it during

0:21:01.720 --> 0:21:06.240
<v Speaker 1>or following combustion. You can't do a pre combustion cleaning

0:21:06.280 --> 0:21:08.360
<v Speaker 1>to remove nitrogen. You can only do it as you're

0:21:08.359 --> 0:21:11.960
<v Speaker 1>burning it or after you've burned it during combustion. You

0:21:12.000 --> 0:21:15.200
<v Speaker 1>could use what is called a low nitrogen oxide burner.

0:21:15.480 --> 0:21:18.920
<v Speaker 1>This actually requires careful management of the ratio of fuel

0:21:19.119 --> 0:21:22.840
<v Speaker 1>to air to reduce the amount of nitrogen oxide emissions

0:21:22.920 --> 0:21:27.160
<v Speaker 1>during several stages of combustion, so it slows down this process.

0:21:27.800 --> 0:21:32.040
<v Speaker 1>It's possible to retrofit existing boilers with these types of burners,

0:21:32.480 --> 0:21:35.280
<v Speaker 1>but they're limited in their effectiveness. They can reduce emissions

0:21:35.760 --> 0:21:40.160
<v Speaker 1>between thirty to which is not bad, but it still

0:21:40.200 --> 0:21:45.080
<v Speaker 1>means that you have almost you can have up to

0:21:45.520 --> 0:21:48.520
<v Speaker 1>more than half of all emissions still going out into

0:21:48.520 --> 0:21:52.760
<v Speaker 1>the environment, which is not great. After combustion, you can

0:21:52.840 --> 0:21:56.880
<v Speaker 1>use something like selective catalytic reduction, in which you inject

0:21:56.960 --> 0:22:01.040
<v Speaker 1>ammonia into a catalytic reactor and you can use something

0:22:01.040 --> 0:22:04.920
<v Speaker 1>like titanium oxide as a catalyst as flu gas flows

0:22:04.960 --> 0:22:08.280
<v Speaker 1>through it. This is the gas given off by combusting.

0:22:08.320 --> 0:22:11.800
<v Speaker 1>The Colt's very hot and it's got all these chemicals

0:22:11.800 --> 0:22:16.080
<v Speaker 1>in it. All. The reaction with the catalyst and with

0:22:16.240 --> 0:22:21.560
<v Speaker 1>the ammonia creates some byproducts like water, vapor, and nitrogen,

0:22:22.000 --> 0:22:26.600
<v Speaker 1>not nitrogen oxide, but just nitrogen. This process reduces nitrogen

0:22:26.680 --> 0:22:31.920
<v Speaker 1>oxide emissions by eight to nine though unreacted ammonia ammonia

0:22:32.000 --> 0:22:34.080
<v Speaker 1>that did not actually go through this chemical reaction can

0:22:34.119 --> 0:22:37.639
<v Speaker 1>also become an emission that's not great. There's a similar

0:22:37.640 --> 0:22:41.840
<v Speaker 1>approach called the selective non catalytic reduction that requires a

0:22:41.920 --> 0:22:44.880
<v Speaker 1>higher operating temperature because you're not using a catalyst, which

0:22:45.280 --> 0:22:49.919
<v Speaker 1>you know, catalysts make chemical reactions easier if you like.

0:22:49.960 --> 0:22:54.320
<v Speaker 1>They facilitate chemical reactions well in the absence of a catalyst,

0:22:54.560 --> 0:22:59.399
<v Speaker 1>you have to compensate by increasing the temperature um But

0:22:59.440 --> 0:23:01.320
<v Speaker 1>then you don't have of a catalyst, and instead of

0:23:01.359 --> 0:23:05.359
<v Speaker 1>using ammonia, use a different chemical. The reaction with the

0:23:05.400 --> 0:23:08.840
<v Speaker 1>fluid gas results in nitrogen, water, vapor, and carbon dioxide.

0:23:09.440 --> 0:23:12.400
<v Speaker 1>The overall reduction of nitrogen oxide emissions tends to be

0:23:12.400 --> 0:23:16.320
<v Speaker 1>between seventy four. But then you also have CEO two,

0:23:16.400 --> 0:23:19.400
<v Speaker 1>which we'll get to a little bit later. Then there's

0:23:19.440 --> 0:23:22.640
<v Speaker 1>the particulate matter that gets carried up in smoke stacks,

0:23:22.920 --> 0:23:26.320
<v Speaker 1>the the coal ash, if you will, and can contribute

0:23:26.320 --> 0:23:29.520
<v Speaker 1>to stuff like asthma and other respiratory problems. One way

0:23:29.520 --> 0:23:33.680
<v Speaker 1>to reduce those emissions is to use an electrical field

0:23:33.920 --> 0:23:37.679
<v Speaker 1>or a series of high voltage electrical fields. The purpose

0:23:37.760 --> 0:23:40.879
<v Speaker 1>of this is to impart an electrical charge onto the

0:23:40.920 --> 0:23:45.160
<v Speaker 1>particulate matter as it moves through the system. Now, once

0:23:45.200 --> 0:23:48.880
<v Speaker 1>those particles are charged, they will move near collection plates

0:23:48.880 --> 0:23:53.040
<v Speaker 1>that carry the opposite charge, and opposite charges attract, so

0:23:53.080 --> 0:23:56.720
<v Speaker 1>the particular dust will cling to the collection plates. They

0:23:56.720 --> 0:23:59.320
<v Speaker 1>can be really effective in removing that particulate matter, like

0:24:00.119 --> 0:24:03.880
<v Speaker 1>percent effective in some cases. However, this also means using

0:24:03.920 --> 0:24:07.240
<v Speaker 1>some of the electricity you're generating to power the system,

0:24:07.359 --> 0:24:10.160
<v Speaker 1>so again you're getting a reduced return on your investment

0:24:10.680 --> 0:24:12.520
<v Speaker 1>because you have to use some of that electricity just

0:24:12.600 --> 0:24:16.840
<v Speaker 1>to keep the process from being too dirty. Another method

0:24:17.119 --> 0:24:21.160
<v Speaker 1>involves a different approach to using coal called gasification, which

0:24:21.200 --> 0:24:24.560
<v Speaker 1>gives you a hint at what's involved. Use steam and

0:24:24.640 --> 0:24:29.200
<v Speaker 1>pressurized air or pressurized oxygen, and you have that air

0:24:29.400 --> 0:24:32.200
<v Speaker 1>oxygen heated too very high temperatures, and you combine all

0:24:32.200 --> 0:24:34.920
<v Speaker 1>this with the coal. This forces a chemical reaction in

0:24:34.960 --> 0:24:38.720
<v Speaker 1>which carbon molecules break apart and produce sin gas. That's

0:24:38.720 --> 0:24:42.359
<v Speaker 1>synthetic natural gas I talked about earlier. Sin gas is

0:24:42.359 --> 0:24:46.320
<v Speaker 1>a mixture of hydrogen and carbon monoxide. You also get water, vapor,

0:24:46.359 --> 0:24:49.960
<v Speaker 1>and carbon dioxide from this process. The sin gas, once

0:24:50.040 --> 0:24:53.600
<v Speaker 1>chemically scrubbed, can be used in a gas turbine to

0:24:53.640 --> 0:24:58.560
<v Speaker 1>generate electricity. So instead of generating heat to boil water

0:24:58.720 --> 0:25:01.800
<v Speaker 1>and turn a steam turb line, you can have a

0:25:01.800 --> 0:25:06.000
<v Speaker 1>a sin gas powered turbine that just takes the fuel

0:25:06.480 --> 0:25:09.360
<v Speaker 1>and uses that to generate electricity directly. Not only that,

0:25:09.400 --> 0:25:13.480
<v Speaker 1>but then you can also capture waste heat from this

0:25:13.560 --> 0:25:17.520
<v Speaker 1>process to boil water and turn a second turbine a

0:25:17.520 --> 0:25:22.760
<v Speaker 1>steam turbine, so it can increase the the efficiency of

0:25:22.800 --> 0:25:27.800
<v Speaker 1>a power system this way, and um, you essentially turn

0:25:27.840 --> 0:25:31.480
<v Speaker 1>waste heat into productive heat. You still produce carbon dioxide

0:25:31.480 --> 0:25:33.720
<v Speaker 1>this way, and that's a greenhouse gas, and that's still

0:25:33.720 --> 0:25:37.639
<v Speaker 1>a big problem. Uh. And carbon dioxide emissions continue to

0:25:37.880 --> 0:25:41.960
<v Speaker 1>contribute to climate change, so reducing them is critically important

0:25:42.160 --> 0:25:44.360
<v Speaker 1>to limit the damage we face in the years to come.

0:25:44.480 --> 0:25:48.360
<v Speaker 1>Not to avoid the damage that's going to happen one

0:25:48.400 --> 0:25:52.720
<v Speaker 1>way or the other, but to mitigate it. We need

0:25:52.760 --> 0:25:55.439
<v Speaker 1>to cut back on carbon dioxide emissions in order to

0:25:55.720 --> 0:25:58.359
<v Speaker 1>have that happen. So in the next section, I'm going

0:25:58.400 --> 0:26:01.920
<v Speaker 1>to talk about carbon capture and storage, and then we'll

0:26:01.960 --> 0:26:05.040
<v Speaker 1>wrap up the whole clean coal conversation. But first let's

0:26:05.040 --> 0:26:15.880
<v Speaker 1>take another quick break to thank our sponsor. Carbon dioxide

0:26:16.160 --> 0:26:20.080
<v Speaker 1>makes up the vast majority, percentage wise, of all greenhouse

0:26:20.119 --> 0:26:26.000
<v Speaker 1>gas emissions. Back in it was of all greenhouse gases

0:26:26.080 --> 0:26:30.159
<v Speaker 1>emitted by man. Now, there's a natural process on our

0:26:30.200 --> 0:26:34.000
<v Speaker 1>planet in which carbon gets removed from the atmosphere. Plants

0:26:34.040 --> 0:26:36.280
<v Speaker 1>do it as part of their normal life cycle. They

0:26:36.400 --> 0:26:40.000
<v Speaker 1>take in carbon dioxide, but we're dumping way more c

0:26:40.200 --> 0:26:42.879
<v Speaker 1>O two into the air than plants can absorb, and

0:26:42.920 --> 0:26:45.240
<v Speaker 1>on top of that, we tend to wipe out large

0:26:45.240 --> 0:26:47.560
<v Speaker 1>areas of plant life in order to do stuff like

0:26:47.600 --> 0:26:52.160
<v Speaker 1>build cities or have farmland. The carbon we're introducing into

0:26:52.160 --> 0:26:55.360
<v Speaker 1>the atmosphere has been locked away in coal for millions

0:26:55.400 --> 0:26:59.000
<v Speaker 1>of years until suddenly unleashed and dumped in there. So

0:26:59.480 --> 0:27:02.080
<v Speaker 1>is there some way we could reverse that right and

0:27:02.200 --> 0:27:06.000
<v Speaker 1>take carbon out of the air and lock it back up.

0:27:06.560 --> 0:27:09.360
<v Speaker 1>The answer is not only yes, but also that there

0:27:09.359 --> 0:27:13.760
<v Speaker 1>are lots of different ways we can do this. There

0:27:13.760 --> 0:27:17.160
<v Speaker 1>are three general approaches when it. We're talking about coal

0:27:17.320 --> 0:27:21.719
<v Speaker 1>power plants in particular, because there's no simple way of

0:27:21.760 --> 0:27:26.520
<v Speaker 1>just grabbing carbon dioxide from the atmosphere in general. So

0:27:26.600 --> 0:27:29.560
<v Speaker 1>if we look at the places where we're dumping a

0:27:29.600 --> 0:27:31.520
<v Speaker 1>lot of c O two and say, can we find

0:27:31.520 --> 0:27:33.800
<v Speaker 1>a way to capture it right there at that source,

0:27:34.720 --> 0:27:38.360
<v Speaker 1>that would be very helpful. So first, you can use

0:27:38.560 --> 0:27:43.520
<v Speaker 1>sorbents or solvents to capture c O two. Adds orbins

0:27:43.520 --> 0:27:47.879
<v Speaker 1>such as activated carbon or zeolites can separate c O

0:27:48.000 --> 0:27:50.480
<v Speaker 1>two from other gas mixtures, and it's used in the

0:27:50.520 --> 0:27:54.480
<v Speaker 1>process of hydrogen production. It's also used to remove c

0:27:54.680 --> 0:27:57.439
<v Speaker 1>O two from natural gas, but when it comes to

0:27:57.440 --> 0:28:01.560
<v Speaker 1>coal power plants, that's a different story. Absorbent materials have

0:28:01.600 --> 0:28:06.119
<v Speaker 1>a limited capacity to take out CEO two, and they

0:28:06.160 --> 0:28:08.120
<v Speaker 1>aren't quite up to the task of doing the job

0:28:08.160 --> 0:28:11.600
<v Speaker 1>on so large a scale as on flu gas. So

0:28:12.160 --> 0:28:15.040
<v Speaker 1>while it does work in smaller applications for things like

0:28:15.080 --> 0:28:19.440
<v Speaker 1>a cold power plant, this approach would not work. Solvents

0:28:19.480 --> 0:28:22.119
<v Speaker 1>are more promising, and in fact are actually being used

0:28:22.160 --> 0:28:25.879
<v Speaker 1>in some carbon capture facilities already right now as the

0:28:25.920 --> 0:28:30.400
<v Speaker 1>primary way of capturing carbon dioxide. UH there's a process

0:28:30.440 --> 0:28:35.720
<v Speaker 1>called amine scrubbing in which derivatives of ammonia called amines,

0:28:36.280 --> 0:28:40.040
<v Speaker 1>react with flu gas. They can potentially remove an enormous

0:28:40.040 --> 0:28:43.200
<v Speaker 1>amount of carbon dioxide, practically all of it at least

0:28:43.200 --> 0:28:46.280
<v Speaker 1>on paper. But there are some questions about how quickly

0:28:46.360 --> 0:28:49.880
<v Speaker 1>certain amines may degrade in flu gas, or how much

0:28:50.000 --> 0:28:52.680
<v Speaker 1>energy is needed to regenerate the system. You know, how

0:28:52.800 --> 0:28:54.800
<v Speaker 1>much do you how much energy do you need to

0:28:54.800 --> 0:28:58.320
<v Speaker 1>put in to put in enough of the solvent the

0:28:58.360 --> 0:29:02.120
<v Speaker 1>solvents to take out the CEO too, And without answering

0:29:02.120 --> 0:29:03.959
<v Speaker 1>those questions, we can't really know if this is an

0:29:03.960 --> 0:29:06.719
<v Speaker 1>effective approach on a large scale. But there are a

0:29:06.720 --> 0:29:09.120
<v Speaker 1>lot of pilot programs out there that are using this method.

0:29:10.360 --> 0:29:12.920
<v Speaker 1>The next big way, because that was one, right, the

0:29:12.920 --> 0:29:15.400
<v Speaker 1>sword bids and the solvents, The second big way to

0:29:15.480 --> 0:29:19.680
<v Speaker 1>remove CEO two from gases is to use gas separation membranes,

0:29:20.800 --> 0:29:23.200
<v Speaker 1>which is pretty much what sounds like. You can think

0:29:23.200 --> 0:29:25.920
<v Speaker 1>of it again kind of like a sieve um. They

0:29:25.920 --> 0:29:28.480
<v Speaker 1>allow certain materials to pass through and they keep other

0:29:28.520 --> 0:29:31.080
<v Speaker 1>materials back. And there are lots of different types of

0:29:31.080 --> 0:29:32.760
<v Speaker 1>membranes out there, so I'm not going to go through

0:29:32.800 --> 0:29:35.280
<v Speaker 1>them all because they get real technical and there are

0:29:35.520 --> 0:29:38.960
<v Speaker 1>tons of them, but you would typically need several membranes

0:29:39.080 --> 0:29:43.880
<v Speaker 1>along an entire stream because they don't individually achieve a

0:29:43.960 --> 0:29:47.400
<v Speaker 1>high degree of separation. In other words, stuff can get

0:29:47.400 --> 0:29:50.640
<v Speaker 1>through one membrane, so you want to have extra layers

0:29:50.760 --> 0:29:53.120
<v Speaker 1>kind of extra layers of protection to capture all of

0:29:53.160 --> 0:29:58.840
<v Speaker 1>the CEO two. However, adding membranes adds complexity to the system,

0:29:58.920 --> 0:30:03.200
<v Speaker 1>and complexity tends to translate into cost. It means, the

0:30:03.200 --> 0:30:05.719
<v Speaker 1>more complex system, the more expensive it tends to be.

0:30:06.600 --> 0:30:09.840
<v Speaker 1>You would likely need different types of membranes, not all

0:30:09.960 --> 0:30:13.320
<v Speaker 1>just the same one. Because of the various byproducts that

0:30:13.400 --> 0:30:16.640
<v Speaker 1>come from coal, combustion, and in any case, the membrane

0:30:16.640 --> 0:30:21.480
<v Speaker 1>approach isn't currently scalable to be an effective, efficient and

0:30:21.520 --> 0:30:25.280
<v Speaker 1>affordable process for something like a coal power plant. So

0:30:25.480 --> 0:30:28.280
<v Speaker 1>maybe one day it will be, but right now it isn't.

0:30:28.640 --> 0:30:31.120
<v Speaker 1>It's still in the sort of research and development phase.

0:30:31.680 --> 0:30:33.880
<v Speaker 1>The third big process is another one that's not going

0:30:33.920 --> 0:30:37.120
<v Speaker 1>to work too well for major coal power plants, but

0:30:37.160 --> 0:30:42.240
<v Speaker 1>it's cryogenic approaches. That means using the processes of cooling

0:30:42.360 --> 0:30:47.760
<v Speaker 1>and condensation to separate carbon dioxide from other flu gases. Again,

0:30:47.760 --> 0:30:50.720
<v Speaker 1>it wouldn't be an effective process for post combustion treatment

0:30:50.840 --> 0:30:52.440
<v Speaker 1>because you have to do a lot of other stuff

0:30:52.480 --> 0:30:54.440
<v Speaker 1>to the gases first, like you would have to separate

0:30:54.480 --> 0:30:57.200
<v Speaker 1>out the water vapor before you could use a cryogenic approach.

0:30:57.720 --> 0:31:00.560
<v Speaker 1>You could use it in a pre combustion process, so

0:31:00.640 --> 0:31:05.160
<v Speaker 1>before you've actually um started to combust the coal. Capturing

0:31:05.160 --> 0:31:08.440
<v Speaker 1>the CEO two, however, is just the first step after

0:31:08.520 --> 0:31:11.440
<v Speaker 1>preventing the carbon dioxide from going into the atmosphere at large.

0:31:11.680 --> 0:31:14.160
<v Speaker 1>Now you gotta do something with it, right, You captured

0:31:14.200 --> 0:31:17.520
<v Speaker 1>it all, you put it into canisters. Now what Well,

0:31:17.640 --> 0:31:22.160
<v Speaker 1>there are two main long term storage options. One involves

0:31:22.360 --> 0:31:24.720
<v Speaker 1>burying the CEO two deep in the earth. I mean

0:31:24.840 --> 0:31:27.640
<v Speaker 1>literally pumping it there. That's where we got the carbon

0:31:27.680 --> 0:31:30.120
<v Speaker 1>from from the first place. After all, right, we went down,

0:31:30.160 --> 0:31:33.280
<v Speaker 1>we dug out coal, We burned the coal that released

0:31:33.320 --> 0:31:36.040
<v Speaker 1>the CEO two. So in a way, we're just putting

0:31:36.040 --> 0:31:37.800
<v Speaker 1>it back where it blocks, if you think of it

0:31:37.840 --> 0:31:40.440
<v Speaker 1>that way. The other option is putting it into the ocean.

0:31:41.040 --> 0:31:44.000
<v Speaker 1>We call these two approaches the geologic and the oceanic

0:31:44.120 --> 0:31:48.760
<v Speaker 1>carbon capture strategies. So with the geologic approach, you inject

0:31:48.760 --> 0:31:52.720
<v Speaker 1>carbon dioxide deep into the earth itself, typically into underground

0:31:52.760 --> 0:31:55.880
<v Speaker 1>oil or gas fields, where it can get absorbed in

0:31:56.000 --> 0:31:58.960
<v Speaker 1>the into the ground, or you can actually pump it

0:31:58.960 --> 0:32:01.000
<v Speaker 1>into any part of the earth that happens to have

0:32:01.240 --> 0:32:03.720
<v Speaker 1>some salty water and poorous rock in the mix, and

0:32:03.760 --> 0:32:06.960
<v Speaker 1>the carbon dioxide will soak in. The idea is that

0:32:07.200 --> 0:32:09.719
<v Speaker 1>it will lock into the ground and stay there and

0:32:09.840 --> 0:32:13.520
<v Speaker 1>slowly bind with the materials in the surrounding rocks over

0:32:13.560 --> 0:32:18.240
<v Speaker 1>the course of millions of years. The oceanic approach requires

0:32:18.280 --> 0:32:21.400
<v Speaker 1>another step. First, you take the c O two you've captured,

0:32:21.680 --> 0:32:23.840
<v Speaker 1>and then you have to pressurize it to get it

0:32:23.880 --> 0:32:26.680
<v Speaker 1>down to the super critical liquid states. So now you've

0:32:26.720 --> 0:32:29.960
<v Speaker 1>got liquid CEO two. This, by the way, is another

0:32:30.120 --> 0:32:33.160
<v Speaker 1>energy hungry process and one that becomes less efficient as

0:32:33.160 --> 0:32:36.040
<v Speaker 1>you scale up the system. You have to pour energy

0:32:36.080 --> 0:32:38.640
<v Speaker 1>into it in order for it to happen, which again

0:32:38.680 --> 0:32:41.360
<v Speaker 1>eats into your bottom line. Anyway, now you've got liquid

0:32:41.400 --> 0:32:44.760
<v Speaker 1>carbon dioxide. You inject the liquid c O two into

0:32:44.800 --> 0:32:47.800
<v Speaker 1>deep water, and by deep, I'm talking about between five

0:32:47.880 --> 0:32:51.840
<v Speaker 1>hundred and three thousand meters, which is around feet to

0:32:52.600 --> 0:32:56.200
<v Speaker 1>just under ten thousand feet deep. At that depth, the

0:32:56.240 --> 0:33:00.320
<v Speaker 1>waters pressure, the amount of water pressure is enough to

0:33:00.480 --> 0:33:04.120
<v Speaker 1>dissolve the CEO two into the water. However, this process

0:33:04.120 --> 0:33:07.000
<v Speaker 1>would in turn lower the pH of the water at

0:33:07.040 --> 0:33:10.200
<v Speaker 1>that region, turning it slightly acidic, which could end up

0:33:10.200 --> 0:33:14.040
<v Speaker 1>being harmful to aquatic life. So this is something that

0:33:14.120 --> 0:33:19.200
<v Speaker 1>we're not entirely sure would have a net positive environmental impact.

0:33:19.600 --> 0:33:23.240
<v Speaker 1>Now keep in mind, to truly be clean coal, you

0:33:23.280 --> 0:33:25.680
<v Speaker 1>would have to use multiple strategies I've talked about on

0:33:25.720 --> 0:33:28.280
<v Speaker 1>this episode in order to get all the pollutants. Carbon

0:33:28.560 --> 0:33:30.800
<v Speaker 1>capture is not going to do you any good for

0:33:30.840 --> 0:33:33.640
<v Speaker 1>things like stopping mercury from getting out into the environment.

0:33:34.280 --> 0:33:37.080
<v Speaker 1>And even then, you're talking about reducing some of those

0:33:37.080 --> 0:33:40.000
<v Speaker 1>pollutants significantly, but not eliminating them, so some of it's

0:33:40.040 --> 0:33:43.600
<v Speaker 1>still getting out into the environment. And as you add

0:33:43.640 --> 0:33:47.320
<v Speaker 1>in these various systems, as I mentioned earlier, it creates

0:33:47.360 --> 0:33:51.560
<v Speaker 1>more and more complex facilities, and the more complex a

0:33:51.640 --> 0:33:55.480
<v Speaker 1>facility is, the more expensive it gets. Maintenance is also

0:33:55.560 --> 0:33:59.040
<v Speaker 1>an added expense, so you end up with a system

0:33:59.080 --> 0:34:02.120
<v Speaker 1>where the will is still cheap, the fuel is cheap

0:34:02.240 --> 0:34:06.480
<v Speaker 1>and plentiful, but using it gets more and more expensive,

0:34:06.840 --> 0:34:08.760
<v Speaker 1>especially if you want to use it in a way

0:34:08.920 --> 0:34:11.200
<v Speaker 1>where you're capturing as many of these pollutings as possible.

0:34:11.600 --> 0:34:13.920
<v Speaker 1>Some of that expense also, like I said, it means

0:34:13.960 --> 0:34:16.279
<v Speaker 1>dedicating some of the energy or some of the electricity

0:34:17.480 --> 0:34:20.160
<v Speaker 1>in the in the system just to keep the whole

0:34:20.160 --> 0:34:22.759
<v Speaker 1>thing running, So you lose out on some of the

0:34:22.800 --> 0:34:26.360
<v Speaker 1>stuff you would otherwise sell to the public. And in

0:34:26.440 --> 0:34:28.920
<v Speaker 1>order to stay profitable that might mean that you have

0:34:29.000 --> 0:34:35.080
<v Speaker 1>to raise the cost of electricity of the service. So

0:34:35.120 --> 0:34:37.759
<v Speaker 1>as a general rule, and again this is this goes

0:34:37.800 --> 0:34:40.800
<v Speaker 1>without saying that I'm gonna say it, companies aren't terribly

0:34:40.880 --> 0:34:44.120
<v Speaker 1>keen on increasing costs and eating into the bottom line.

0:34:44.280 --> 0:34:46.640
<v Speaker 1>That's generally thought of as a bad thing in business.

0:34:47.120 --> 0:34:50.960
<v Speaker 1>You want to cut costs and maximize profits. So the

0:34:51.000 --> 0:34:53.840
<v Speaker 1>coal industry and power utilities in in the United States

0:34:53.840 --> 0:35:00.279
<v Speaker 1>have lobbied historically to great extents and vigorously to limit

0:35:00.360 --> 0:35:05.720
<v Speaker 1>regulations and in more recent years to reverse previously established regulations.

0:35:06.200 --> 0:35:09.840
<v Speaker 1>And that's because clean coal, if implemented properly at scale,

0:35:10.360 --> 0:35:14.360
<v Speaker 1>is gonna be expensive. It is more environmentally conscious, It

0:35:14.520 --> 0:35:18.400
<v Speaker 1>is the better choice to make from a health perspective,

0:35:18.560 --> 0:35:22.080
<v Speaker 1>from an environment perspective, and I would argue from a

0:35:22.239 --> 0:35:29.080
<v Speaker 1>long term economic perspective, but from a short term economic perspective,

0:35:29.680 --> 0:35:34.279
<v Speaker 1>it may not be the most attractive option if you're

0:35:34.440 --> 0:35:39.399
<v Speaker 1>just looking at literally a return on investment. Shareholders want

0:35:39.440 --> 0:35:41.640
<v Speaker 1>to see money come back to them when they pour

0:35:41.719 --> 0:35:45.960
<v Speaker 1>it into an industry or a company, So it's hard

0:35:46.600 --> 0:35:50.680
<v Speaker 1>to make that case to say in the short term,

0:35:50.760 --> 0:35:55.320
<v Speaker 1>we are not going to see big returns, but further

0:35:55.400 --> 0:35:57.560
<v Speaker 1>down the road, we're going to see much better returns,

0:35:58.080 --> 0:36:03.040
<v Speaker 1>and we're also going to avoid doing further critical damage

0:36:03.040 --> 0:36:07.719
<v Speaker 1>to the environment. Now, when I say that a coal

0:36:07.800 --> 0:36:10.719
<v Speaker 1>power plant that's running on a clean coal strategy is

0:36:10.760 --> 0:36:13.080
<v Speaker 1>more expensive, what does that mean. It means that it

0:36:13.160 --> 0:36:19.320
<v Speaker 1>costs about more to operate a clean coal coal plant

0:36:19.719 --> 0:36:24.080
<v Speaker 1>than a normal coal plant. That's a tall order. Now,

0:36:24.120 --> 0:36:27.120
<v Speaker 1>the cost of clean coal might make it less attractive

0:36:28.000 --> 0:36:33.920
<v Speaker 1>than say, greener renewable energy sources, and you might say, oh, well,

0:36:33.960 --> 0:36:38.120
<v Speaker 1>instead of doing this clean coal approach, maybe we should

0:36:38.200 --> 0:36:42.480
<v Speaker 1>invest more in wind power or hydro power or solar power.

0:36:43.400 --> 0:36:46.760
<v Speaker 1>A carbon tax, which is a tax in which companies

0:36:46.800 --> 0:36:50.839
<v Speaker 1>would have to pay a fee in return for being

0:36:50.920 --> 0:36:56.400
<v Speaker 1>allowed to emit carbon dioxide. Sometimes there's like a credit program.

0:36:56.440 --> 0:36:59.360
<v Speaker 1>You purchase credits, and for each credit, you're allowed a

0:36:59.400 --> 0:37:02.000
<v Speaker 1>certain amount of CEO two emissions, but you have to

0:37:02.040 --> 0:37:04.200
<v Speaker 1>pay for it. The idea is that this creates the

0:37:04.200 --> 0:37:08.719
<v Speaker 1>incentive for companies to not emit carbon, to cut back

0:37:08.719 --> 0:37:11.520
<v Speaker 1>on carbon emissions so as to avoid having to pay

0:37:11.560 --> 0:37:15.720
<v Speaker 1>those fees. It's the idea of creating an economic system

0:37:15.760 --> 0:37:20.200
<v Speaker 1>of pressure to force companies, or at least to encourage

0:37:20.239 --> 0:37:25.000
<v Speaker 1>companies to cut carbon emissions. That that could also help.

0:37:25.920 --> 0:37:28.600
<v Speaker 1>And it would be really nice to see a move

0:37:28.640 --> 0:37:33.960
<v Speaker 1>toward more renewable methods. If companies said, well, coal itself

0:37:34.000 --> 0:37:37.160
<v Speaker 1>is still cheap, it's still easy to get, but using

0:37:37.200 --> 0:37:40.040
<v Speaker 1>it as too expensive. I would love to see that

0:37:40.080 --> 0:37:42.919
<v Speaker 1>because I would love to see more money going into

0:37:42.960 --> 0:37:48.280
<v Speaker 1>renewable energy sources, which have a much lower environmental impact

0:37:48.520 --> 0:37:51.680
<v Speaker 1>than coal or even natural gas, because again coal is

0:37:51.920 --> 0:37:55.640
<v Speaker 1>the dirtiest fossil fuel. It's not hard to have a

0:37:55.719 --> 0:38:01.279
<v Speaker 1>lower environmental impact than burning coal. Uh And and also

0:38:01.320 --> 0:38:04.800
<v Speaker 1>I shouldn't mention renewable energy sources still have an environmental impact.

0:38:05.320 --> 0:38:07.360
<v Speaker 1>You know, we can't just say that they're magical and

0:38:07.400 --> 0:38:10.880
<v Speaker 1>they don't harm the environment at all. That's not entirely true.

0:38:11.000 --> 0:38:12.560
<v Speaker 1>You have to if you look at the big picture

0:38:12.560 --> 0:38:15.920
<v Speaker 1>at how these things are made, there's still an environmental

0:38:15.960 --> 0:38:18.600
<v Speaker 1>cost to be paid. It's just not nearly as dear

0:38:18.680 --> 0:38:23.520
<v Speaker 1>a cost as using coal. So one of the really

0:38:23.520 --> 0:38:26.840
<v Speaker 1>big challenges facing renewable energy is that it's up against

0:38:27.320 --> 0:38:30.919
<v Speaker 1>a super cheap fossil fuel. If we decide the only

0:38:30.920 --> 0:38:35.160
<v Speaker 1>way we can allow coal combustion is if we require

0:38:35.719 --> 0:38:39.880
<v Speaker 1>coal plants to reduce emissions as much as possible, then

0:38:40.000 --> 0:38:43.160
<v Speaker 1>it might become financially viable for more companies to invest

0:38:43.200 --> 0:38:47.200
<v Speaker 1>in alternatives, because getting a coal plant up to speed

0:38:47.680 --> 0:38:50.360
<v Speaker 1>incorporating all these systems might be more expensive than just

0:38:50.440 --> 0:38:52.480
<v Speaker 1>scrapping it and saying all right, we're gonna get into

0:38:52.560 --> 0:38:56.279
<v Speaker 1>solar now. Um, so that's that's actually something that is

0:38:56.320 --> 0:38:59.840
<v Speaker 1>possible if the regulations are put in place, But that

0:39:00.040 --> 0:39:02.000
<v Speaker 1>has not been the trend, at least in the United

0:39:02.040 --> 0:39:04.200
<v Speaker 1>States over the last couple of years. The trend has

0:39:04.200 --> 0:39:06.680
<v Speaker 1>actually been in the reverse, getting rid of regulations as

0:39:06.680 --> 0:39:11.239
<v Speaker 1>opposed to strengthening them. Now, some people could argue that

0:39:11.400 --> 0:39:14.600
<v Speaker 1>advocating for clean coal at all is really a smoke

0:39:14.719 --> 0:39:18.279
<v Speaker 1>screen pun intended to keep the status quo for as

0:39:18.320 --> 0:39:21.320
<v Speaker 1>long as possible. In other words, someone who says no, no, no,

0:39:21.480 --> 0:39:24.359
<v Speaker 1>we need to keep investing in clean coal might really

0:39:24.480 --> 0:39:28.480
<v Speaker 1>be saying I want to be able to keep using

0:39:28.640 --> 0:39:31.600
<v Speaker 1>coal as a fuel source, and if I can argue

0:39:31.840 --> 0:39:34.680
<v Speaker 1>that the research and development into clean coal is going

0:39:34.800 --> 0:39:37.759
<v Speaker 1>to pay off and dividends, I can keep using coal.

0:39:37.800 --> 0:39:41.719
<v Speaker 1>In the meantime, it becomes like a shell game. Uh.

0:39:42.160 --> 0:39:45.960
<v Speaker 1>Some clean coal technologies are mature technologies. They are proven

0:39:46.239 --> 0:39:48.040
<v Speaker 1>and they can be used right now, and they are

0:39:48.239 --> 0:39:53.160
<v Speaker 1>used and widely some of them, but others are still young,

0:39:53.840 --> 0:39:56.040
<v Speaker 1>they're still in development. There's still questions about whether or

0:39:56.040 --> 0:39:59.759
<v Speaker 1>not they can actually work on large scale applications. So

0:40:00.000 --> 0:40:02.240
<v Speaker 1>the meantime, there are a lot of coal power plants

0:40:02.280 --> 0:40:05.880
<v Speaker 1>out there with few of those systems in place, and

0:40:05.920 --> 0:40:08.960
<v Speaker 1>they're dumping more CEO two and other pollutants into the atmosphere.

0:40:09.680 --> 0:40:12.400
<v Speaker 1>There are a lot of environmental advocates who say we

0:40:12.600 --> 0:40:16.080
<v Speaker 1>can't continue with this, that we can't argue for clean

0:40:16.200 --> 0:40:21.160
<v Speaker 1>coal and simultaneously not use the techniques that we already

0:40:21.239 --> 0:40:27.120
<v Speaker 1>have created to mitigate coal's pollution. So it's a pretty

0:40:27.600 --> 0:40:33.840
<v Speaker 1>dirty argument. Ultimately, clean coal the combustion of coal in

0:40:33.920 --> 0:40:37.680
<v Speaker 1>a way that has the minimal environmental impact. I believe

0:40:37.719 --> 0:40:42.120
<v Speaker 1>that is going to be possible with the right investments.

0:40:42.920 --> 0:40:46.719
<v Speaker 1>Whether those right investments are ever fully made and implemented

0:40:46.880 --> 0:40:51.600
<v Speaker 1>is another question, because it may turn out that companies

0:40:51.800 --> 0:40:54.880
<v Speaker 1>make this decision that it makes more sense to switch

0:40:54.960 --> 0:40:59.720
<v Speaker 1>to a different energy source than it does to update

0:41:00.239 --> 0:41:04.200
<v Speaker 1>all of these old power plants and have them run

0:41:04.960 --> 0:41:09.600
<v Speaker 1>under this new system. I worry right now that some

0:41:09.719 --> 0:41:12.920
<v Speaker 1>of those advocates are absolutely right that clean coal is

0:41:13.560 --> 0:41:17.120
<v Speaker 1>really just allowing an excuse to stick with an old,

0:41:17.200 --> 0:41:21.080
<v Speaker 1>dirty fossil fuel that is doing more harm than good

0:41:22.320 --> 0:41:25.640
<v Speaker 1>rather than and and pulling our focus away from alternatives

0:41:25.680 --> 0:41:28.320
<v Speaker 1>that could be much more beneficial. The nice thing I

0:41:28.400 --> 0:41:32.160
<v Speaker 1>can say is that over the last few years, natural

0:41:32.320 --> 0:41:38.040
<v Speaker 1>gas production has been on the rise, and natural gas,

0:41:38.400 --> 0:41:43.040
<v Speaker 1>while still a fossil fuel, produces fewer pollutants than cold does,

0:41:44.200 --> 0:41:50.080
<v Speaker 1>so the d emphasis on coal is a good thing.

0:41:50.560 --> 0:41:53.680
<v Speaker 1>The problem is we need to make much more drastic

0:41:53.760 --> 0:41:58.160
<v Speaker 1>cuts in greenhouse gas emissions than just switching from coal

0:41:58.200 --> 0:42:01.080
<v Speaker 1>to natural gas will allow. We have to go further

0:42:01.239 --> 0:42:05.840
<v Speaker 1>than that, and the question is do we have the

0:42:06.000 --> 0:42:10.000
<v Speaker 1>willpower and the ingenuity and the innovation necessary to do it.

0:42:10.200 --> 0:42:12.839
<v Speaker 1>I think we do have the ingenuity and innovation. It's

0:42:12.880 --> 0:42:16.800
<v Speaker 1>the willpower part that I question. Um. I certainly hope

0:42:16.920 --> 0:42:18.799
<v Speaker 1>we do, because I would love to see a world

0:42:19.200 --> 0:42:22.200
<v Speaker 1>where we are able to move off of fossil fuels entirely.

0:42:22.320 --> 0:42:25.080
<v Speaker 1>I think it would improve not just the environment, but

0:42:25.200 --> 0:42:28.319
<v Speaker 1>it could improve the economy. It could certainly improve things

0:42:28.440 --> 0:42:31.160
<v Speaker 1>like national security. If you are able to be self

0:42:31.200 --> 0:42:33.759
<v Speaker 1>sufficient for your power needs entirely and you're not having

0:42:33.840 --> 0:42:37.839
<v Speaker 1>to import fossil fuels, that's fantastic. It's a great way

0:42:37.880 --> 0:42:40.399
<v Speaker 1>to improve national security. There are a lot of good

0:42:40.560 --> 0:42:45.919
<v Speaker 1>arguments for it, but economically it maybe a harder sell,

0:42:46.360 --> 0:42:50.400
<v Speaker 1>And sometimes that's the toughest battle to fight, is the

0:42:50.920 --> 0:42:53.719
<v Speaker 1>battle of the price tag. What do you guys think.

0:42:54.000 --> 0:42:58.239
<v Speaker 1>I'm curious to hear your thoughts about energy and what

0:42:58.440 --> 0:43:01.319
<v Speaker 1>we should be turning to? UM, what should we really

0:43:01.360 --> 0:43:04.320
<v Speaker 1>focus on? I'm curious you guys are all tech savvy

0:43:04.400 --> 0:43:06.560
<v Speaker 1>folks right to me let me know I want to hear.

0:43:07.120 --> 0:43:10.640
<v Speaker 1>The email address is tech stuff at how stuff works

0:43:10.800 --> 0:43:13.960
<v Speaker 1>dot com, and don't forget to pop on over to

0:43:14.040 --> 0:43:16.920
<v Speaker 1>our website that's tech stuff Podcast dot com. You can

0:43:17.040 --> 0:43:19.960
<v Speaker 1>look at the archive all of our older episodes there.

0:43:20.719 --> 0:43:23.480
<v Speaker 1>You can also find ways to contact me on social media,

0:43:24.200 --> 0:43:28.160
<v Speaker 1>where I'm quite the social media butterfly. And don't forget

0:43:28.200 --> 0:43:30.120
<v Speaker 1>to pop over to our merchandise store over at t

0:43:30.360 --> 0:43:34.160
<v Speaker 1>public dot com slash tech stuff. That's where you can

0:43:34.239 --> 0:43:37.440
<v Speaker 1>make purchases of all of our cool designs. And remember,

0:43:37.600 --> 0:43:39.600
<v Speaker 1>every purchase you make goes to help the show and

0:43:39.719 --> 0:43:42.040
<v Speaker 1>we greatly appreciate it. And I will talk to you

0:43:42.160 --> 0:43:51.320
<v Speaker 1>again really soon for more on this and thousands of

0:43:51.360 --> 0:44:00.880
<v Speaker 1>other topics. Is it how stuff works dot com. Eight