WEBVTT - #524 Jason Flom with Clemente Aguirre 0:00:03.680 --> 0:00:06.800 Hey, I'm Ben Bullet. You might know my podcast stuff 0:00:06.800 --> 0:00:09.280 they don't want you to know. And if you like 0:00:09.360 --> 0:00:12.320 Wrongful Conviction, you'll see that we have a vibe in 0:00:12.400 --> 0:00:15.600 common in that we bring stories that need to be 0:00:15.680 --> 0:00:18.640 told to the wider world. And with our pal Jason 0:00:18.680 --> 0:00:21.079 out of town, the Lava for Good team invited me 0:00:21.200 --> 0:00:24.600 to introduce a few of my favorite episodes. So as 0:00:24.640 --> 0:00:27.360 a guy who lives in Georgia, I loved hearing a 0:00:27.400 --> 0:00:30.840 story so close to home, one that was also recorded 0:00:31.160 --> 0:00:33.680 very close to home. The interview we're about to hear 0:00:33.840 --> 0:00:37.720 took place at the twenty nineteen Innocence Network conference held 0:00:37.720 --> 0:00:41.400 here in Atlanta, and the guest Clemente Shorty. Again, his 0:00:42.040 --> 0:00:46.639 story is particularly resonant in this current political climate. He's 0:00:46.680 --> 0:00:49.920 a Honduran man who established himself in the US. He 0:00:50.000 --> 0:00:53.400 got wrongfully convicted of a double murder, and then he 0:00:53.440 --> 0:00:57.480 got sent to death row in Florida, only to later 0:00:57.560 --> 0:01:02.400 be exonerated by DNA evidence and the real killer's multiple 0:01:02.480 --> 0:01:06.479 out of court confessions. Shorty is off death row right 0:01:06.480 --> 0:01:09.399 now and out of prison, but as of this recording, 0:01:09.520 --> 0:01:13.440 he could still be deported back to Honduras, where honestly 0:01:13.640 --> 0:01:17.200 another death sentence awaits, this time at the hands of 0:01:17.240 --> 0:01:20.039 the gang he refused to join so many years ago. 0:01:20.400 --> 0:01:23.640 His story is an incredible one, and it's one that 0:01:23.800 --> 0:01:27.440 needs our attention right now. So let's hear from the 0:01:27.480 --> 0:01:28.200 man himself. 0:01:31.160 --> 0:01:34.119 Clemente Shorty Aguire grew up in Honduras, but in two 0:01:34.120 --> 0:01:36.640 thousand and one, when rival street gangs demanded that he 0:01:36.680 --> 0:01:39.479 pick aside or die, he found himself with no choice 0:01:39.480 --> 0:01:42.240 but to run. He escaped to the United States, crossing 0:01:42.240 --> 0:01:45.440 our southern border illegally, and ultimately he found work as 0:01:45.440 --> 0:01:48.520 a cook, living in Seminole County, Florida, in a trailer park, 0:01:48.840 --> 0:01:52.040 where he formed friendly ties with various neighbors. But on 0:01:52.200 --> 0:01:55.120 June seventeenth of two thousand and four, Shorty was hanging 0:01:55.160 --> 0:01:56.880 out into the wee hours of the morning when he 0:01:56.920 --> 0:01:59.559 went to his friend Cheryl Williams's trailer to grab a beer, 0:02:00.080 --> 0:02:03.840 and there he found himself inside of a gruesome crime scene. 0:02:04.040 --> 0:02:06.440 The trailer had been ransacked and was covered in blood. 0:02:07.000 --> 0:02:10.040 Cheryl and her mother Carol had been stabbed repeatedly and 0:02:10.080 --> 0:02:12.760 were dead. He checked the bodies for signs of life, 0:02:12.960 --> 0:02:17.320 thereby inadvertently tampering with the crime scene. Knowing that nothing 0:02:17.320 --> 0:02:20.480 would bring them back, and fearing deportation or worse, he 0:02:20.600 --> 0:02:23.600 chose to stay quiet initially, but later that day Clemente 0:02:23.600 --> 0:02:27.480 came forward about his discovery. His immigration status and unwitting 0:02:27.760 --> 0:02:31.200 crime scene tampering made him a prime suspect, and with 0:02:31.280 --> 0:02:34.040 the deadly combination of an ineffective public defender and the 0:02:34.080 --> 0:02:38.840 prosecution's tunnel vision, Clemente was convicted and sent to death row. 0:02:39.480 --> 0:02:42.600 In this episode, recorded at the Innocent Network conference in Atlanta, 0:02:42.639 --> 0:02:45.240 we speak with Clemente Shortia Giri and one of his 0:02:45.320 --> 0:02:48.960 lead post conviction attorneys, Maria Deliberado, who, along with a 0:02:49.000 --> 0:02:52.880 list of mostly pro bono private council would properly reinvestigate 0:02:52.880 --> 0:02:54.960 the crime and test the one hundred and ninety seven 0:02:54.960 --> 0:02:57.600 pieces of crime scene evidence that had never been tested 0:02:57.639 --> 0:03:02.640 for DNA. Ultimately excluding they even found new evidence that 0:03:02.680 --> 0:03:04.880 would lead to the identity of the woman who was 0:03:04.960 --> 0:03:08.200 almost certainly the true perpetrator and who confessed to the 0:03:08.240 --> 0:03:13.360 crime on numerous occasions, Cheryl's own daughter, Samantha Williams. Shorty 0:03:13.440 --> 0:03:16.160 spent over fourteen long years in prison, most of it 0:03:16.280 --> 0:03:19.480 on death row, for a crime he simply did not 0:03:19.600 --> 0:03:29.840 commit This is wrongful Conviction. You're listening to Wrongful Conviction. 0:03:30.200 --> 0:03:32.240 You can listen to this and all the Lava for 0:03:32.280 --> 0:03:35.920 Good podcasts one week early and ed free by subscribing 0:03:35.960 --> 0:03:45.119 to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. Welcome back 0:03:45.120 --> 0:03:49.320 to Wrongful Conviction. Today's show is going to take you 0:03:49.440 --> 0:03:54.200 on a journey that you will probably never forget, and 0:03:54.240 --> 0:03:56.960 not because of anything I'm going to say, but because 0:03:57.000 --> 0:04:00.840 of the story you're going to hear. And today we 0:04:00.920 --> 0:04:07.960 have as our very special guest, Clemente aka Shorty Agere 0:04:08.360 --> 0:04:14.080 from Honduras, right, who was wrongfully convicted in Florida the 0:04:14.160 --> 0:04:17.039 double murder and who served fourteen years and four months 0:04:17.080 --> 0:04:20.880 on death row. Shorty, welcome to rofl Conviction. 0:04:21.360 --> 0:04:22.200 Thank you for having me. 0:04:22.279 --> 0:04:24.440 As I always say, I'm sorry you're here, but I'm 0:04:24.440 --> 0:04:27.200 happy you're here. So you know how that and with 0:04:27.320 --> 0:04:30.080 him is one of his incredible we'll just call it 0:04:30.080 --> 0:04:34.120 what it is, dream team of lawyers. Maria Deliberado, which 0:04:34.160 --> 0:04:37.120 is a great name for lawyer, by the way, not 0:04:37.120 --> 0:04:42.640 for nothing. It's perfect and so Maria, welcome to rofl Conviction. 0:04:42.800 --> 0:04:43.880 Thank you, happy to be here. 0:04:44.360 --> 0:04:47.320 So Shorty, you were you were sort of a star 0:04:47.720 --> 0:04:51.000 in your native country, right, I guess. 0:04:50.839 --> 0:04:55.360 So you can say that I was very likable, friendly 0:04:55.839 --> 0:05:00.000 play soccer when I'm singing competition representing in this. 0:05:00.760 --> 0:05:03.320 I was told it was like the American Idol of Honduras. 0:05:03.400 --> 0:05:04.320 Is that right? Yeah? 0:05:04.360 --> 0:05:07.400 I were called championships and it was between the school 0:05:07.560 --> 0:05:11.080 so it was knowledge, it was dancing, and it was singing. 0:05:11.760 --> 0:05:14.719 So I performed I and I want the first place? 0:05:15.040 --> 0:05:16.520 Wow? And how old were you? 0:05:16.839 --> 0:05:17.840 I was ten years old? 0:05:17.920 --> 0:05:21.440 Ten years old, so amazing start to a crazy journey. 0:05:21.960 --> 0:05:24.719 And is it true that as a result of you 0:05:24.800 --> 0:05:27.680 winning this competition, the gang's kind of left you alone 0:05:27.680 --> 0:05:28.920 for a while, right, for. 0:05:28.839 --> 0:05:33.040 A little bit, since Sia was going to school those times, 0:05:33.160 --> 0:05:36.320 it really wasn't di Stronos. Again, in that period of 0:05:36.320 --> 0:05:39.560 time when growing up and going to high school, I 0:05:39.640 --> 0:05:43.080 was well known because I played soccer there. But my 0:05:43.200 --> 0:05:46.400 problem was I live in a neighborhood with a rival 0:05:46.480 --> 0:05:50.000 game and I play and go to school with the 0:05:50.040 --> 0:05:53.400 other gang high power off. So it was very controversial 0:05:54.080 --> 0:05:57.000 because one would say I belonged to one and the 0:05:57.040 --> 0:05:58.680 other one would say I belonged to the other one, 0:05:58.720 --> 0:05:59.960 which it wasn't the case. 0:06:00.839 --> 0:06:02.800 And in fact, you were able to belong to neither 0:06:02.839 --> 0:06:05.240 of them because of the status that you enjoyed being 0:06:05.400 --> 0:06:07.120 sort of this celebrity in your area. 0:06:07.200 --> 0:06:11.080 Right basically, and because my mother too, she didn't play, 0:06:11.480 --> 0:06:13.840 and I have this select group of friends. It was 0:06:13.880 --> 0:06:17.279 seven of us. It didn't attract to us anything about 0:06:17.320 --> 0:06:18.159 no game at all. 0:06:18.760 --> 0:06:21.240 But then, as I understand it, when you got a 0:06:21.240 --> 0:06:23.919 little older the gangs, you were going to join the 0:06:23.920 --> 0:06:25.560 gang or get killed basically. 0:06:25.279 --> 0:06:28.280 Right, Yeah, they told me they weren't playing. I was 0:06:28.880 --> 0:06:33.839 harassed and put guns in a face. I live in 0:06:33.839 --> 0:06:38.120 a neighborhood full of MS thirteens, and I got to 0:06:38.160 --> 0:06:43.039 go to school where the eighteens lived. So when I 0:06:43.320 --> 0:06:46.560 get out of the territory from the thirteens, the eighties 0:06:46.600 --> 0:06:50.680 grabbed me and made me undress in public to see 0:06:50.680 --> 0:06:52.880 if I didn't have tattoos belonging to the other game. 0:06:54.520 --> 0:06:57.760 Ultimately, you decided you had to leave because your life 0:06:57.839 --> 0:06:59.719 was in danger. Right, But what was it that made 0:06:59.760 --> 0:07:02.320 you Because that's a big step to leave your country, 0:07:02.360 --> 0:07:04.960 And it's a very important story to tell right now, 0:07:05.040 --> 0:07:07.760 especially right with what's going on in this country. Because 0:07:07.800 --> 0:07:09.400 you had a crazy journey ahead of you. But what 0:07:09.480 --> 0:07:10.200 was it that happened. 0:07:10.400 --> 0:07:15.960 Well, it was in two thousand and one January of 0:07:16.040 --> 0:07:20.320 February around there. I was with my Beyonce to be 0:07:20.440 --> 0:07:24.280 at a moment and the taxi pull up in front 0:07:24.320 --> 0:07:29.480 of my house. I'm sitting down outside and they got 0:07:29.480 --> 0:07:33.880 this raincoach, this long rail black coat and put an 0:07:33.880 --> 0:07:35.680 a K forty seven and put it in my face. 0:07:36.880 --> 0:07:43.640 The drivers step down and say, we ain't playing no more. TikTok, TikTok. 0:07:45.200 --> 0:07:47.120 In that particular moment in time, my mom came out 0:07:47.160 --> 0:07:51.640 at the door and say what you're doing? I said, Mom, 0:07:52.280 --> 0:07:55.440 go inside? What good doe? She is out here and 0:07:55.480 --> 0:07:57.160 I got a gon to my pace and my girlfriend 0:07:57.400 --> 0:08:00.560 is holding me for their life. I'm like home down. 0:08:01.080 --> 0:08:04.880 So they left. And then you say, TikTok TikTok mean 0:08:04.960 --> 0:08:07.720 the clock is running. You need to tie up and 0:08:07.840 --> 0:08:12.880 join all else. And December, a few months back, they 0:08:12.920 --> 0:08:14.720 killed one of my best friends because he didn't want 0:08:14.760 --> 0:08:21.320 to join AH. They killed him on December twenty, two thousand, 0:08:23.440 --> 0:08:28.160 So it was very very scary. My mother said, you 0:08:28.200 --> 0:08:31.440 go to your grandma. They sent me to Nicarawa and 0:08:31.440 --> 0:08:35.280 then Nicaragua is no place to live. It's like it's 0:08:35.360 --> 0:08:39.560 more poverty. They wasn't Honduras. So in two thousand and two, 0:08:39.600 --> 0:08:42.400 my sisters came from the United States already with her residency, 0:08:42.480 --> 0:08:44.319 and we went from there. I need to come to 0:08:44.400 --> 0:08:47.440 the United States. I cannot live in Nicarada for poverty. 0:08:47.720 --> 0:08:50.360 I cannot live in my native country because if I 0:08:50.400 --> 0:08:54.720 don't join again, they will kill me. So the only 0:08:54.800 --> 0:08:57.599 way I got out of here is go to the 0:08:57.720 --> 0:08:58.760 United States. 0:09:00.000 --> 0:09:02.760 Addy, everything you've been through is enough for someone to 0:09:02.800 --> 0:09:05.400 go through. But this isn't even the beginning. How did 0:09:05.440 --> 0:09:09.200 you get from Nicaragua all the way to eventually swimming 0:09:09.200 --> 0:09:10.520 across the Rio Grande. 0:09:10.559 --> 0:09:14.840 I came to Mexico and I buy some papers and 0:09:15.440 --> 0:09:20.120 I learned a national anthem of Mexico and history. I 0:09:20.200 --> 0:09:23.760 lived there for a couple of months, and I flew 0:09:24.520 --> 0:09:28.439 to Mexico City and there to New Laredo, and from 0:09:28.520 --> 0:09:32.480 there I went to a bar where when I got in, 0:09:32.520 --> 0:09:36.160 there as this coyot. Back then it was coyot. You say, 0:09:36.160 --> 0:09:39.360 it was no cartels and stuff like that, passing people 0:09:40.080 --> 0:09:42.800 and these coyote is to say, okay, you have sixteen 0:09:42.840 --> 0:09:47.559 hundred dollars on you. No, But I can call. So 0:09:47.840 --> 0:09:50.600 we arranged that here is going to pass me through 0:09:50.960 --> 0:09:53.839 all the way to Laredo, Texas. So he wanted me 0:09:53.880 --> 0:09:56.800 to swing with this the did they go inside the 0:09:56.920 --> 0:10:01.560 tire like inner two right, So because he asking me, 0:10:01.760 --> 0:10:04.200 can you swim? And this moment in time, I feel 0:10:04.240 --> 0:10:07.520 like I'm the micro fellow the river. I didn't know 0:10:08.600 --> 0:10:12.480 how big real ground there really was. You see, I'm 0:10:12.520 --> 0:10:15.079 picturing a river that is just like my grandma. 0:10:15.160 --> 0:10:16.119 It's like a stream. 0:10:16.440 --> 0:10:18.360 Yeah, I mean it's something that you can pass in 0:10:18.520 --> 0:10:21.400 two minutes. I never thought I'm gonna take me seventeen 0:10:21.400 --> 0:10:24.559 minutes almost to pass the river across that I almost drowned. 0:10:24.559 --> 0:10:29.000 And you know, so he told us to take the 0:10:29.080 --> 0:10:32.520 close off, so we did, but we keep the underwear on. 0:10:33.679 --> 0:10:36.199 When he turned back and like, what you're doing. This 0:10:36.280 --> 0:10:39.720 isn't no gay shit, teed you underwere off because when 0:10:39.800 --> 0:10:42.800 you run, you need to be dry. If you wet, 0:10:43.400 --> 0:10:46.760 it's gonna it's gonna hurt you and it's gonna slow 0:10:46.840 --> 0:10:48.840 you down. Believe me, I'm doing this for a long time. 0:10:49.360 --> 0:10:51.560 So we did. Put it in a plastic bag, put 0:10:51.559 --> 0:10:55.680 in my mouth, start swimming. We make it to the 0:10:55.679 --> 0:10:58.679 other side. Somehow, God only he could help me to 0:10:58.720 --> 0:11:03.160 pass through that river because it was strong, and we'd 0:11:03.200 --> 0:11:06.079 write off. He say, every paper that you have, every 0:11:06.200 --> 0:11:09.600 picture that you have, throw it away, every money that 0:11:09.640 --> 0:11:13.120 you have, throw it away. You cannot bring anything with 0:11:13.280 --> 0:11:16.760 you to the United States unless it's American dollars. I 0:11:16.800 --> 0:11:19.800 didn't have any American dollars, so you know, it was 0:11:19.840 --> 0:11:23.760 fifty pests of Mexico. So I threw it away, and 0:11:23.800 --> 0:11:26.600 he said, when I tell you so, follow me and run. 0:11:27.800 --> 0:11:29.360 When we make it to the other side, it was 0:11:29.360 --> 0:11:32.280 like ninety five people in there, you know, females, men, 0:11:32.480 --> 0:11:36.280 you own, people from Ecuador, Columbia, Costa Rica, you name it. 0:11:36.720 --> 0:11:40.960 So we saw immigration car pass by, and then another 0:11:41.000 --> 0:11:44.120 one and you may say, I ain't waiting here. We're 0:11:44.120 --> 0:11:48.400 taken off. So I'm taking after him because he got 0:11:48.400 --> 0:11:51.880 my money. So I'm thinking I cannot let him go 0:11:51.920 --> 0:11:54.320 away with my money. You know, how am I going 0:11:54.360 --> 0:11:56.160 to make it to the other side. And this moment 0:11:56.160 --> 0:11:58.360 in time, I'm in the United States, but I haven't 0:11:58.360 --> 0:12:01.480 made it to civilization yet. With the off running, I 0:12:01.520 --> 0:12:06.720 wasn't thirty second and we hear helicopters, police cars, dogs 0:12:06.760 --> 0:12:10.000 and sirens saying stop, stop, but we're going to shoot. 0:12:10.679 --> 0:12:13.760 We hear some shots at this moment in time, everybody 0:12:13.760 --> 0:12:16.880 has take off running two and I'm running right next 0:12:16.920 --> 0:12:20.960 to this guy. So I'm running and I'm asking him 0:12:20.960 --> 0:12:24.040 where to where to? He didn't tell me where to 0:12:24.160 --> 0:12:26.720 because I think I can run him. I really believe 0:12:26.720 --> 0:12:28.840 I can run him. I'm so desperate to pass back. 0:12:29.559 --> 0:12:31.720 So it's some shots. I don't think they were shouting 0:12:31.720 --> 0:12:33.520 at us. I think they were shouting to the airth 0:12:33.559 --> 0:12:36.480 so people get scared or whatever. But that's all I 0:12:36.480 --> 0:12:39.400 hear in my neighborhood. So they really didn't call me anymore. 0:12:39.400 --> 0:12:41.760 It was I'm so used to or I was so 0:12:41.880 --> 0:12:46.920 used to. We make it to the fence, and by 0:12:46.920 --> 0:12:48.920 the time we're going to jump the fence, I used 0:12:48.920 --> 0:12:51.480 to feel this hand in my hand and say, senor 0:12:51.520 --> 0:12:54.880 please my son. It was this woman running next to 0:12:54.920 --> 0:12:57.240 me with the child in her hand. So I grabbed 0:12:57.280 --> 0:12:59.199 the kid, I give it to the next guy. I 0:12:59.240 --> 0:13:01.920 push her up, and then I jumped. We went to 0:13:01.920 --> 0:13:05.920 a house call my sister went to Houston. From Houston, 0:13:06.320 --> 0:13:10.079 came to my sister house March eighteen, six fifteen in 0:13:10.120 --> 0:13:13.679 the morning. Three months sixteen day after I was out 0:13:13.720 --> 0:13:14.400 of my house. 0:13:15.160 --> 0:13:17.160 Three months and sixteen days starting in Nicarago. 0:13:17.200 --> 0:13:20.840 Right, started from Honduras January second, all the way to 0:13:21.360 --> 0:13:23.199 March eighteen, two thousand and three. 0:13:23.320 --> 0:13:26.080 And you ended up in Florida in a little town. 0:13:25.920 --> 0:13:28.280 Right, yes, and altamund spring. 0:13:28.640 --> 0:13:31.160 So you end up in Florida. You got a job, right? 0:13:31.640 --> 0:13:36.480 Yes. My boy saw me courting lawn and shaving some 0:13:36.559 --> 0:13:38.600 kind of palms, and he led the way I work, 0:13:38.960 --> 0:13:42.200 so he offered me a job as a discwatcher dishes 0:13:42.240 --> 0:13:45.480 for a couple of months. And one day the cooks 0:13:45.520 --> 0:13:49.320 were really busy, so my mom teached me how to cooks. 0:13:49.320 --> 0:13:53.640 And I was six seven years old and everybody was busy, 0:13:53.679 --> 0:13:58.680 and they saw me cooking for me. So my boss 0:13:58.720 --> 0:14:04.160 saw and say, oh, okay, so you can cut, you 0:14:04.200 --> 0:14:07.920 can prep. I think you're going to be good in 0:14:08.000 --> 0:14:12.360 the prep line. So they may may do salads, bread 0:14:12.760 --> 0:14:15.559 and prep everything for the line. 0:14:17.520 --> 0:14:19.040 So now you're moving up in the world a little 0:14:19.040 --> 0:14:21.680 bit at a time, right, going from the cutting trees 0:14:21.800 --> 0:14:24.720 or whatever to the to the kitchen and now doing 0:14:24.760 --> 0:14:27.000 the prep work and starting to use your skills that 0:14:27.040 --> 0:14:31.400 you had developed as a cook. So things are looking 0:14:31.720 --> 0:14:34.040 up right right? And where were you living? 0:14:34.720 --> 0:14:37.840 I moved from my sister and Altimo Sprinto Longwood in 0:14:37.840 --> 0:14:40.600 the trailer park in forty four. 0:14:41.920 --> 0:14:44.080 And the trailer park is a very important role in 0:14:44.080 --> 0:14:48.280 the story. This is where this shit really hits the fan. Maria, 0:14:48.280 --> 0:14:49.880 do you want to sort of set the table here, 0:14:49.920 --> 0:14:52.040 because you've worked on this case for ten years, you 0:14:52.080 --> 0:14:55.600 know every single detail of what happened. 0:14:55.640 --> 0:14:56.200 Absolutely. 0:14:56.320 --> 0:14:59.800 I mean I don't even really know where to start at. 0:15:00.000 --> 0:15:01.800 I mean I used to be a prosecutor actually before 0:15:01.920 --> 0:15:05.680 I did criminal defense thirteen years ago. And so from 0:15:05.800 --> 0:15:10.200 that perspective getting this case, the fact that they saw 0:15:10.240 --> 0:15:13.480 him as the suspect shut their eyes to any possible 0:15:13.520 --> 0:15:17.200 other alternative is to me the biggest travesty here. But 0:15:17.320 --> 0:15:19.080 I'll sort of set the stage, I guess in the 0:15:19.120 --> 0:15:21.360 sense of he was living next door to the victims. 0:15:21.560 --> 0:15:22.200 It was a. 0:15:22.160 --> 0:15:24.840 Trailer part on Vagabond Way, and that was the name 0:15:24.840 --> 0:15:28.880 of the street, and he had socialized with them on 0:15:28.960 --> 0:15:29.960 more than one occasion. 0:15:30.320 --> 0:15:32.560 And this was a woman, her mother and her daughter 0:15:32.640 --> 0:15:34.240 living together in this trailer. 0:15:34.160 --> 0:15:38.760 That's correct, Yes, And Clemente lived with two other men 0:15:38.800 --> 0:15:42.280 about his age. They were both cousins, and so they 0:15:42.280 --> 0:15:44.200 were about the same age as the daughter and her 0:15:44.280 --> 0:15:47.000 brother also lived in the trailer for periods of time, 0:15:47.080 --> 0:15:50.160 so sort of all people of his age Clemente at 0:15:50.160 --> 0:15:52.880 the time. Obviously you can hear him today speaking English. 0:15:52.920 --> 0:15:55.600 He didn't speak any English back then. He taught himself 0:15:55.640 --> 0:15:58.600 English in prison, which is a great story that he 0:15:58.720 --> 0:16:00.520 does need to tell at some point point. How he 0:16:00.560 --> 0:16:02.960 taught himself English. It's one of my favorite stories that 0:16:03.000 --> 0:16:05.600 he tells. But he didn't speak any English then, but 0:16:05.720 --> 0:16:07.960 you know, he was able to communicate enough with them. 0:16:08.400 --> 0:16:11.600 They shared parties, they shared drinks, sort of a friendly 0:16:11.720 --> 0:16:17.440 neighborhood scene. The day that he was arrested, the mother 0:16:17.480 --> 0:16:21.280 and grandmother were killed, and the morning that their bodies 0:16:21.280 --> 0:16:24.960 were discovered, Monday had gone there in the morning, as 0:16:25.000 --> 0:16:27.000 he often did. He had been out with friends the 0:16:27.080 --> 0:16:29.960 night before. They always were known to have lots and 0:16:30.000 --> 0:16:32.240 lots of beer. If you look at the crime scene video, 0:16:32.360 --> 0:16:35.120 I mean there was just thousands and thousands of cans. 0:16:35.720 --> 0:16:38.800 And in Florida, alcohol is sold in all the grocery stores, 0:16:38.800 --> 0:16:41.560 but not until certain hours. So the grocery store wasn't 0:16:41.600 --> 0:16:44.200 open yet, and Clemente was a you know, in his 0:16:44.320 --> 0:16:46.600 early twenties. We can all remember what it's like to 0:16:46.600 --> 0:16:48.760 be able to party all night in your early twenties. 0:16:48.920 --> 0:16:51.720 And he had finished a hard day's work and was 0:16:51.800 --> 0:16:53.680 letting this with some friends and wanted to keep the 0:16:53.720 --> 0:16:56.480 party going. So he had just gone over there for 0:16:56.480 --> 0:16:58.160 a beer, as he had done many times. They had 0:16:58.160 --> 0:16:59.240 an open door policy. 0:17:00.520 --> 0:17:02.120 Let's turn over to you a climate day, because this 0:17:02.240 --> 0:17:04.880 is such a nightmare. I mean, I've told your story 0:17:04.960 --> 0:17:07.880 so many times, but you actually lived it. So can 0:17:07.920 --> 0:17:09.280 you take us back to that day. 0:17:09.520 --> 0:17:11.800 I've been drinking all day, I'm going to go home, 0:17:12.160 --> 0:17:14.080 and I went home, but I want another beer, so 0:17:14.119 --> 0:17:16.160 I went inside and I didn't find it. So it's 0:17:16.200 --> 0:17:19.080 why I wait until daytime to go to the next 0:17:19.119 --> 0:17:21.040 door and ask for a beer, like I had done 0:17:21.440 --> 0:17:22.399 dozens of time before. 0:17:22.680 --> 0:17:24.359 What time was it when you went over to It. 0:17:24.280 --> 0:17:25.800 Was like six something in the morning. 0:17:25.880 --> 0:17:28.000 Six in the morning, right, And so you went over 0:17:28.040 --> 0:17:30.760 there as you've done so many times, to scoop up 0:17:30.760 --> 0:17:33.640 a few more beers whatever? Right, What did you encounter 0:17:33.720 --> 0:17:34.520 when you got there? 0:17:35.840 --> 0:17:38.160 I turn knocked the door, but when I touch it, 0:17:38.359 --> 0:17:42.320 push open, But it didn't open all the way. It's 0:17:42.359 --> 0:17:45.640 strange because I've been in the house. I mean, if 0:17:45.640 --> 0:17:48.800 I want to give you a number over seven hundred times, right, 0:17:49.280 --> 0:17:53.119 So I know that door opened all the way and 0:17:53.880 --> 0:17:58.359 this time didn't. So I push it and it it 0:17:58.400 --> 0:18:03.080 didn't go further than was So I look, it was 0:18:03.160 --> 0:18:08.800 like a little window, and I saw Cherry Williams there body. 0:18:10.080 --> 0:18:10.880 This was the mom. 0:18:11.240 --> 0:18:16.720 That was the mother, Yes, Samantha's mother, yes, and Carol daughter. 0:18:16.880 --> 0:18:18.720 So you saw the body like, so that's why they 0:18:18.720 --> 0:18:20.639 couldn't open the door because the body was blocking. 0:18:20.680 --> 0:18:22.040 But it was blocking it, yes, sir. 0:18:22.240 --> 0:18:24.919 Right, and so now you see the body. But is 0:18:24.920 --> 0:18:27.760 there blood everywhere? Or what's the first thing that you. 0:18:27.760 --> 0:18:32.600 Her body is there? I just jump immediately inside without 0:18:32.600 --> 0:18:36.480 thinking right, and she was too close to by the door, 0:18:36.760 --> 0:18:39.440 so I had to close the door and touch her 0:18:40.000 --> 0:18:42.560 dress looking for a pose. So I said, maybe I'm 0:18:42.560 --> 0:18:45.640 too drunk that I don't feel it. So I picked 0:18:45.640 --> 0:18:47.359 her up and put it on the top of my 0:18:47.440 --> 0:18:49.439 legs into her neck because in the position she was, 0:18:49.480 --> 0:18:53.280 I couldn't touch her neck. And a moment and asked 0:18:53.320 --> 0:18:55.760 her to wake up, and she didn't. 0:18:57.640 --> 0:18:59.320 At this point, did you see there was blood and 0:18:59.359 --> 0:18:59.680 there was. 0:18:59.680 --> 0:19:03.280 Yes everywhere, and now it was like a horror movie scene. 0:19:04.720 --> 0:19:11.000 So I'm asking somebody here, and I find the grandmother 0:19:12.000 --> 0:19:16.640 of her wheelchair almost under the table, so I want 0:19:16.640 --> 0:19:19.560 to touch her too. She was dead, and I heard 0:19:19.600 --> 0:19:23.840 this noise and I'm asking somebody here. And with that, 0:19:24.040 --> 0:19:26.240 I walked in the house and my footprints were there, 0:19:26.359 --> 0:19:28.439 and it was it was crazy. 0:19:29.320 --> 0:19:30.520 You found the murder weapon. 0:19:30.359 --> 0:19:32.679 Right, I did? I did. I saw it when I 0:19:32.680 --> 0:19:35.879 saw the first victim. It was on the top of 0:19:35.920 --> 0:19:39.040 a beer box, but I didn't touch it. Then I 0:19:39.080 --> 0:19:42.520 touched until I heard the noise. Later I found out 0:19:42.520 --> 0:19:45.639 it was a dog there. But I know, I'm crazy. 0:19:45.680 --> 0:19:49.639 I heard the noise. So anyway, I went and grabbed 0:19:49.680 --> 0:19:57.080 a knife like like a domas and uh, asking somebody here, 0:19:57.160 --> 0:20:00.600 And I walked and I went to someon a bedroom 0:20:01.520 --> 0:20:06.240 and everything was everywhere in the house. Chair will flowed down, 0:20:07.080 --> 0:20:10.960 clothes was everywhere. Everything was like a like a Hura 0:20:11.080 --> 0:20:14.159 camp passed by there and then I walked to the 0:20:14.200 --> 0:20:18.639 next room, but I think went in there because I 0:20:18.680 --> 0:20:22.280 found Cherry already. So I said, oh my god, what 0:20:22.320 --> 0:20:25.560 am I going to do? So I took off running. 0:20:29.400 --> 0:20:39.960 They got running again, This. 0:20:40.040 --> 0:20:42.640 Is a really bad scenario on every level. I mean, 0:20:42.720 --> 0:20:46.120 you've got now the murder victim's blood on you, right, 0:20:46.280 --> 0:20:48.960 because you've been trying to help them, trying to check 0:20:48.960 --> 0:20:51.920 and see if they're alive. Obviously that was hopeless because 0:20:51.920 --> 0:20:55.920 they were dead. You've got your fingerprints on the knife 0:20:56.480 --> 0:20:59.480 right because you picked up the pick up. Yet, I mean, 0:21:00.200 --> 0:21:02.399 it couldn't be any worse. You can't make it harder 0:21:02.440 --> 0:21:04.600 for your lawyers, right in this case. I mean, this 0:21:04.720 --> 0:21:08.879 is circumstantial levelis it doesn't get much worse than that. 0:21:08.880 --> 0:21:11.160 And I'm sure when it eventually came to your arrest, 0:21:11.200 --> 0:21:13.119 they must have looked at it like, okay, well, so 0:21:13.160 --> 0:21:15.240 you don't really have to work too hard on this one. 0:21:15.320 --> 0:21:18.239 We got this guy dead to rights, Well what did 0:21:18.280 --> 0:21:20.760 you do? So? Now you ran? Where did you run too? 0:21:21.600 --> 0:21:26.800 I ran to my house. I'm debating. Am I going 0:21:26.800 --> 0:21:30.000 to call the policeman? And the person I'm debating is 0:21:31.119 --> 0:21:36.680 I know the police officer arrest you, they call immigration 0:21:36.760 --> 0:21:44.160 on you. It's a fact, So they did. I mean, 0:21:45.320 --> 0:21:48.320 and now I'm going to be deported for it, So 0:21:48.640 --> 0:21:51.840 I know I didn't do nothing wrong, even though everything 0:21:51.920 --> 0:21:56.520 sounds wrong so far. I didn't kill nobody anyway. So 0:21:57.400 --> 0:22:01.240 I took a shower and I'm like, I can't copolice. 0:22:01.400 --> 0:22:04.240 I decided against it because I don't want to be deported. 0:22:04.400 --> 0:22:08.560 It was my fear. It was my fear, and legitn't 0:22:08.560 --> 0:22:12.800 of fear because I'm running from my life. You know, 0:22:12.880 --> 0:22:15.919 I'm running for my life. I don't want to be 0:22:16.040 --> 0:22:19.080 killed in my country because I don't want to be 0:22:19.119 --> 0:22:19.680