Speaker 1: This is the most dramatic podcast ever and iHeartRadio podcast.
Speaker 1: Chris Harrison coming to you from the home office in Austin,
Speaker 1: Texas today, And I'm really excited about this show because
Speaker 1: I'm kind of diving back into the history books, into
Speaker 1: the archives an old friend of mine, and I say
Speaker 1: old because well we are now. Michael Stagliano. You guys
Speaker 1: might remember him from his Bachelorette and Bachelor Pad days. Well,
Speaker 1: I was listening to a podcast the other day and
Speaker 1: he said that he was celebrating his fifteenth anniversary of
Speaker 1: being on the show. I was like, there's no way
Speaker 1: that can't be true. Fifteen years that's when that season
Speaker 1: Jillian Harris is season of The Bachelorette. I had to
Speaker 1: go back. I honestly had to google it and look
Speaker 1: it up, and I'm like, damn it, he's right. Fifteen
Speaker 1: years ago. He was on season five The Bacheorette with
Speaker 1: Jillian Harris, who, if you don't remember, was this really fun,
Speaker 1: loving Canadian girl and it was a great season. When
Speaker 1: I look back at seasons, I look back at who
Speaker 1: was on it, and I'm like, wow, so many people
Speaker 1: came from that show to be a part of Bachelor Pad,
Speaker 1: Future Bachelor's, Bachelor in Paradise, etc. And that was one
Speaker 1: of those seasons, that kind of lightning bulb season where
Speaker 1: a lot of stars from our franchise came from it,
Speaker 1: and Michael Stagliano was one of them. He became really
Speaker 1: popular because he was not only on the Bachelorette with Jillian.
Speaker 1: He didn't win that season spoiler alert, but he went
Speaker 1: on to season two of Bachelor Pad and season three
Speaker 1: of Bachelor Pad, which was a bit of a game
Speaker 1: show we started back in the day where there was
Speaker 1: two hundred and fifty thousand dollars on the line. We
Speaker 1: would bring in nine women and nine guys from this
Speaker 1: show that was just on and they would compete and
Speaker 1: try and couple up, et cetera. And it was fun
Speaker 1: and that is what led to Bachelor in Paradise. We
Speaker 1: took a summer off and then Paradise came in because
Speaker 1: the game show element was a little problematic for us
Speaker 1: because we always wanted to dive into the relationships and
Speaker 1: the love and the romance and the drama, but you
Speaker 1: had to really service the game show aspect. So Stagliano,
Speaker 1: we actually talked about him becoming the Bachelor on a
Speaker 1: couple of occasions, and then for one reason or another,
Speaker 1: Jake Pavelka became the Bachelor and whoever else took over,
Speaker 1: and it just kind of got away from him as
Speaker 1: far as being the Bachelor, but we always kept him
Speaker 1: in the franchise because he was so popular and it
Speaker 1: was it was just it really struck me that he
Speaker 1: was on the show fifteen years ago. So I thought
Speaker 1: we got to revisit this, and I want to have
Speaker 1: him on the show today to talk about those seasons
Speaker 1: and what he remembers looking back and then where he
Speaker 1: is now. So welcoming Michael Stagliano to the most dramatic
Speaker 1: podcast ever. Why do you still look about the same age.
Speaker 1: It's you know, we're celebrating the fifteen year reunion of
Speaker 1: you being on the show.
Speaker 2: Yeah. When you say it out loud, Chris, it dates
Speaker 2: us us considerably. So that puts me I'm forty.
Speaker 1: Now, Chris, Well, well let me date you further. I
Speaker 1: had been doing the show for quite some time before
Speaker 1: you go on Sefty two. Don't age me, don't age me.
Speaker 1: I look great, I do. I found myself telling people
Speaker 1: that I'm just older now. So they'll be like, oh,
Speaker 1: you look good for your age.
Speaker 2: You do look good for your age.
Speaker 1: I am fifty three.
Speaker 2: Chris, You're fantastic for your age. Let me be adamant
Speaker 2: about it. What do you I bet Lauren has you
Speaker 2: eating very well?
Speaker 1: She does, she keeps. And you know, here's the thing.
Speaker 2: I don't.
Speaker 1: I started going gray. You can't see it, but yeah,
Speaker 1: but I didn't go Ari gray like Ari started. I
Speaker 1: Ari started going gray and he beat me. He just
Speaker 1: went gray. We were at long Gale's wedding and I'm like, dude,
Speaker 1: you're You've gone full gray, so like mine, hit the
Speaker 1: sides and it just kind of stops so up top,
Speaker 1: I have not. I don't know why I'm I'm holding on.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but even in the facial hair, it looks it
Speaker 2: looks sophisticated on you, not like, oh, he's getting Do
Speaker 2: you know what I mean when I say that?
Speaker 1: Well, you know it's funny. So and I'm sure I
Speaker 1: don't know if this happened to you. You still have
Speaker 1: a nice, thick, dark beard. And I would trim my
Speaker 1: beard and then you would empty out the little shavings
Speaker 1: and it used to be, oh, it's all all pepper
Speaker 1: and then it would be oh, there's a little salt
Speaker 1: in there. Now it's like, wow, is there any pepper
Speaker 1: in here? Is it all salt?
Speaker 2: Oh? Is this what I have to look forward to?
Speaker 1: Yes? But the good news is salt, we have now learned,
Speaker 1: has gone done to three sixty. It's good for you again.
Speaker 1: So salt is good. So we're that's you. Should you
Speaker 1: stay stay hydrated.
Speaker 2: Wait, I'm sorry, do you mean like only Himilian sea.
Speaker 1: Yeah, only Himialan sea salt, not the salt on your face?
Speaker 2: Got it? Yes, big difference, big difference.
Speaker 1: But no, I was so you and I were talking
Speaker 1: and I had I guess I saw something else you did.
Speaker 1: And you mentioned this has been fifteen years, the fifteen
Speaker 1: year reunion or anniversary of you doing the show, And
Speaker 1: I'm like, my god, that's right. Gillian Harris's season, which
Speaker 1: was I believe season five of The Bachelorette Chris.
Speaker 2: It was the first season that aired in high definition.
Speaker 2: Really think about that. Oh, that's right, historic that season
Speaker 2: was and she was the best ever. But yes, she
Speaker 2: was our first non American, first non American, she was
Speaker 2: we had a Canadian, she was Canadian. That's funny.
Speaker 1: I didn't. I didn't realize that that was our first
Speaker 1: HD show. Man, my life changed. I was so good
Speaker 1: in uh low Death. I was crushing it.
Speaker 2: Well, how many years did you do it? You did
Speaker 2: at least a decade more right? Yeah?
Speaker 1: I did ten years in high definition. I was holding
Speaker 1: on for dear life. I created the entire scandal just
Speaker 1: so I could just get away from high high definition TV,
Speaker 1: and you.
Speaker 2: Pulled it off. This always I actually have a fascination
Speaker 2: around this. Yes, what what do you remember from that time?
Speaker 2: It seems to me like the show has changed quite
Speaker 2: a lot. Maybe about that, but from what I've heard,
Speaker 2: it seems like it's changed a lot. What do you
Speaker 2: remember from even like Bachelor Pad days, the shout I.
Speaker 1: I don't mean this in a negative way at all
Speaker 1: to the presence or to the future. I know I
Speaker 1: remember it being fun and and and that goes a
Speaker 1: lot to where I was in my life of just
Speaker 1: being younger and starting out in this this ride in
Speaker 1: this career, and the show was really banging back then.
Speaker 1: I mean, we were crushing it. By Jillian season, we
Speaker 1: weren't the number one show on television anymore, but we
Speaker 1: were the number one show on ABC. We were still
Speaker 1: dominating our night, and so we're on a roll, right,
Speaker 1: We're still on a heater, And I was just so
Speaker 1: much more. Maybe it's because I was closer in age
Speaker 1: to a lot of you, and so I befriended Jillian,
Speaker 1: I got to be friends with you, you know. I remember
Speaker 1: some of the other people that came through that season.
Speaker 2: Even the crew. It seemed like was said it was
Speaker 2: kind of a good vibe.
Speaker 1: There was this collegial camaraderie with us, with us all
Speaker 1: just having having fun. Nothing was controversial really back then,
Speaker 1: if you remember it, it wasn't. Everything didn't mean everything, you.
Speaker 2: Know what I mean.
Speaker 1: I feel like now, I feel like now everything that
Speaker 1: is said and done has to mean everything, and it
Speaker 1: gets dissected and torn apart, and it's like, you can't
Speaker 1: live like that. You can't produce television like that, and
Speaker 1: you certainly can't be a contestant, a silly contestant on
Speaker 1: a silly reality show like that, because you can't be
Speaker 1: that serious. You can't take yourself that serious.
Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe that's part of the shift that's happened. And
Speaker 2: I would say that I'm a limited I have limited
Speaker 2: knowledge about what the franchise is like, you know, kind
Speaker 2: of in the middle eight years since I was on
Speaker 2: from it. But I did watch The Golden Bachelor. Did
Speaker 2: you happen to watch that?
Speaker 1: I did, And I'll be honest, I haven't watched anything
Speaker 1: since I.
Speaker 2: I can't imagine, and I'm in the same boat. I
Speaker 2: hadn't watched any for such a long time. And then
Speaker 2: I watched The Golden Batchelor, and at the Golden at
Speaker 2: least seemed like it had some sincere moments of like, Wow,
Speaker 2: these older people are here to find love and it
Speaker 2: kind of had that magic if if I'm being honest,
Speaker 2: but yes, to respond to kind of what you were
Speaker 2: saying about the culture and how fun it was on
Speaker 2: set back then, I yeah, I can imagine.
Speaker 1: It was, and I think there was a time when
Speaker 1: you could protect certain people from themselves. Like there was
Speaker 1: a person I won't name names. It was not you,
Speaker 1: I will say that, but there was someone on There
Speaker 1: was someone on your season, Jillian season, that was a
Speaker 1: little problematic and they were just kind of dealt with.
Speaker 1: They said some really inappropriate things and it went away
Speaker 1: and they went away. That wouldn't happen today.
Speaker 2: No, That's what I was gonna say, Wow, man, it
Speaker 2: makes me fascinated. What you think would happen if all
Speaker 2: that stuff with He who shall not be named, Yeah.
Speaker 1: They would. They would just be out. Everything they said
Speaker 1: would have been public knowledge. They would have been absolutely
Speaker 1: crucified for it, and maybe rightfully so. But to us,
Speaker 1: it was something that didn't drive the story, so it
Speaker 1: didn't need to be outed and talked about, and so
Speaker 1: we just let him go on his way. We made
Speaker 1: sure that Jillian didn't end up with him. That's important,
Speaker 1: but look, we don't need to ruin his life. He
Speaker 1: doesn't need to tarnish the show, et cetera. Let's just
Speaker 1: go our separate ways, by gods, And that's the way
Speaker 1: I think the world used to be on a larger
Speaker 1: scale of you didn't have to stop and then make
Speaker 1: an example of every single thing. I think socially, you're
Speaker 1: almost activated to do that now, and that that really
Speaker 1: changes how you approach every situation. I can't imagine how
Speaker 1: people have to approach being on a reality show now.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm going to ask you that if you've seen
Speaker 2: a IF while you were with a franchise or maybe
Speaker 2: just in reality TV in general, you know, if there's
Speaker 2: if there's been a shift from people that just want
Speaker 2: to use it as a platform to get famous versus
Speaker 2: bastl or specifically back in the day, social media didn't exist.
Speaker 2: So we went on to find love, like I'm putting
Speaker 2: that in Giant Air the listener, you know, like I
Speaker 2: wonder if that if you have a sense of that,
Speaker 2: like if it just changed, like.
Speaker 1: You know, did I mean, look, I mean it's because
Speaker 1: you know, look I used to talk about, you know,
Speaker 1: like what changed in love and dating and all that
Speaker 1: when you were on the show. I said, Well, when
Speaker 1: we started in O two one, there was such thing
Speaker 1: as a blog and that was it, and you really
Speaker 1: got your news from Entertainment Tonight, People Magazine, US Magazine,
Speaker 1: those things, and those would come out much later and
Speaker 1: you would kind of get a snapshot of what's going on,
Speaker 1: and that's it, you know. That's you'd go on the
Speaker 1: tabloid shows and you would hear some things. But yeah,
Speaker 1: social media didn't change, and you guys, you guys kind
Speaker 1: of got the best part of it where you didn't
Speaker 1: go on for social media, but you got social media later.
Speaker 1: Whereas and then there was that crew that came on
Speaker 1: for social media, and they crushed it.
Speaker 2: I got to know a lot of those guys too well.
Speaker 1: I would say the JoJo's of the world beca tilly.
Speaker 1: I'm trying to think of those that just absolutely have
Speaker 1: crushed it on social media.
Speaker 2: Barstow right, doesn't she have her own platform and show
Speaker 2: now right?
Speaker 1: I think there's yeah, cal yeah, Kayla, Barsta. She has
Speaker 1: her own thing and definitely benefited from social media. And
Speaker 1: you know, we used to name people the Bachelor or
Speaker 1: Bacherette and they would end up with a million or
Speaker 1: two million followers immediately. Now you know, you might have
Speaker 1: one hundred thousand, a couple hundred thousand, and it's just
Speaker 1: you don't move the zeitgeist and you don't move the
Speaker 1: needle that much on social media. Which that's a hard
Speaker 1: thing to sell because one of the things we used
Speaker 1: to be able to sell was, look, Michael, come on
Speaker 1: the show, do the things we ask you to do.
Speaker 1: You're gonna get a lot of residual bump out of
Speaker 1: this show. And it's probably tough, I'm guessing to cast
Speaker 1: the show now because you can't promise that what do
Speaker 1: you remember from the show, Well, like, do you remember
Speaker 1: not not from Bachelor? Pad, we'll get to that, because
Speaker 1: you went on to be on Bachelor Pad, but being
Speaker 1: on Jillian season of The Bachelorette, you weren't. It wasn't
Speaker 1: the new freshman year, but it wasn't senior year. I
Speaker 1: would say you were in the middle kind of sophomore
Speaker 1: junior year of the show being really good.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's fair. Geez, what do I look
Speaker 2: back at now, Chris? Mostly you know, I was twenty five,
Speaker 2: which is a toddler in some sense compared to what
Speaker 2: it feels like to be forty and where I at now.
Speaker 1: Your front your frontal lobe wasn't even formed yet.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, to be medically specific, yeah, right, an infant.
Speaker 2: But you probably can resonate with this too, especially now
Speaker 2: that I have kids. Like happens when you have kids,
Speaker 2: and it changes how you look at kind of how
Speaker 2: you were when you were younger. And obviously we're exaggerating
Speaker 2: a little bit, but to be more specific about it,
Speaker 2: when I was twenty five, Chris, you know, like the
Speaker 2: idea of going on a TV show for love, I
Speaker 2: really mean this, I was like a full scent. I
Speaker 2: was like, I am pretty confident I could find love
Speaker 2: with this girl. From Canada. So I really, I mean
Speaker 2: I went into the show, you know, a totally naive,
Speaker 2: kind of like a puppy. I'd never been a part
Speaker 2: of a fraternity. I don't know how else to make
Speaker 2: a comparison, but at night one does feel like what
Speaker 2: it probably feels like Rush week at a frat house.
Speaker 2: You're just like good Gop. There's just testosterone exploding off
Speaker 2: of the wall. People are drinking heavily. Maybe that's changed now,
Speaker 2: but back then, back then, there was Timmity, Crickets Chris
Speaker 2: like you. You couldn't put a drink down without someone
Speaker 2: giving you another drink, and part of it was like
Speaker 2: the best. I mean, it was so fun to get to. Man.
Speaker 2: I can't believe I'm gonna say this about a reality
Speaker 2: television show, but I really mean it from my lens.
Speaker 2: At least at half of those guys Chris were there
Speaker 2: because they were into Jillion for sure, And definitely half
Speaker 2: of them were kind of like and some of the
Speaker 2: guys we've already not mentioned, you know, we're just kind
Speaker 2: of hag it out at drinking and not that into Jillion.
Speaker 2: But I at least felt like or the adventures sake
Speaker 2: of finding love. It was worth it and phenomenal, even
Speaker 2: though I was kind of the young Frodo Baggins if
Speaker 2: you don't mind the Lord of the Rings reference, you know,
Speaker 2: just kind of what the heck is going on. I
Speaker 2: didn't kiss her until I had no idea strategically, yeah,
Speaker 2: how to say the game of the bats arette. But
Speaker 2: I really did connect with her. I really did think
Speaker 2: she was like a fun person to hang out with.
Speaker 1: She was awesome, She was a good time in a can.
Speaker 2: It was the greatest. It was the greatest thing.
Speaker 1: It was tougher to do much research and homework back then.
Speaker 1: I mean you could maybe go on the dark web
Speaker 1: and find something, but there wasn't a whole lot where
Speaker 1: you could get online, direct message somebody, text somebody and
Speaker 1: figure out, Okay, what's the game plan, how does this
Speaker 1: really work? What are producers going to ask me to do?
Speaker 1: Et cetera. So there was a naivete and an innocence still,
Speaker 1: which made it beautiful. And I agree. I think a
Speaker 1: lot of people came on for the action, the adventure
Speaker 1: of the travel and yeah, maybe I will fall in
Speaker 1: love with this woman who loves hot dogs.
Speaker 2: Yes, And I really do mean that, and gosh, look,
Speaker 2: part of me is a romantic so I just can't
Speaker 2: help this anyway. I really do like when I watched
Speaker 2: The Golden Batcher, for example, I really do hope that
Speaker 2: there are some young kids that go on the show
Speaker 2: and believe like I used to believe. It sounds like
Speaker 2: I'm talking about Santa Claus, but that like you know,
Speaker 2: you can it is just a boy and a girl.
Speaker 2: It really felt to me at least like it is
Speaker 2: a person and that's there's gonna be sparks there or not.
Speaker 2: At least that part of the magic of the show.
Speaker 2: I hope that's still there.
Speaker 1: Well, that was always the beauty of the show. When
Speaker 1: people ask me what the it factor was for that show.
Speaker 1: There was no catch, which we'll get into bacher Pad
Speaker 1: and that was the biggest issue with bacher Pad as
Speaker 1: there became a catch. The thing with the Bachler and
Speaker 1: Bacherette is, at the end of the day, there is,
Speaker 1: as you said, we'll go notting Hill, you know, a
Speaker 1: boy standing in front of a girl or vice versa,
Speaker 1: depending on the season, and that's it. And you have
Speaker 1: to I don't care if you're on a beach, if
Speaker 1: you're on the you know, Zermatt, up in Switzerland or
Speaker 1: wherever you are. There is this vulnerability in this just
Speaker 1: fear of oh my gosh, does he like me? Does
Speaker 1: she like me? And that's beautiful and that's what the
Speaker 1: at the base of it all is what made the
Speaker 1: show so great. And then you know, if you had
Speaker 1: people that were genuine like yourself and like I think
Speaker 1: the majority of the cast back then who came in
Speaker 1: with that innocence of naivete it just made for great
Speaker 1: television because you could really genuinely go on that ride,
Speaker 1: whereas now I think you have to dissect Okay, who's
Speaker 1: the f boy, who's here to play this part? Who's
Speaker 1: here to play this part? You know, we're just so
Speaker 1: we're so savvy now because we've watched it for twenty
Speaker 1: four years.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Can I reflect something back to you,
Speaker 2: Chris Lee. I don't know how much you got to
Speaker 2: hear of this, but it's been fifteen years. You can
Speaker 2: you imagine in the circles that I run with, namely
Speaker 2: people in the Midwest and the East Coast that don't
Speaker 2: live in LA but you know, it was like those
Speaker 2: type of people. Hey, Chris, half of the country from
Speaker 2: my perspective believes that you created the show and that
Speaker 2: you are you know what I mean, that you are
Speaker 2: like the face of the brain of it. But but
Speaker 2: what I wanted to reflect back to you specifically is
Speaker 2: I always felt like, not only did were you genuinely
Speaker 2: rooting for the love part of it in a way
Speaker 2: that had nothing to do with a television program, but
Speaker 2: the part that I probably speak to more often than
Speaker 2: not is you were also just such a ef and
Speaker 2: cool guy like you never seemed to us like a
Speaker 2: I won't speak for all of the guys me, at
Speaker 2: least you never. We would in the wings be like, Holy,
Speaker 2: that's Chris Harrison. Suit is so dope. He looks so
Speaker 2: good at us, you know, And then when you would
Speaker 2: hang out with us, you really just instantly were kind
Speaker 2: of shooting this shit with us. And I've gotten to
Speaker 2: know some celebrities, you know, with the course of my
Speaker 2: time now in LA and just the reflection back to you,
Speaker 2: you were always so cool at being a real the
Speaker 2: host of one of the biggest reality shows of all time.
Speaker 2: You just handled it well with a lot of authenticity,
Speaker 2: and at least again from my len.
Speaker 1: I took a lot of pride in the fact that
Speaker 1: I did enjoy getting to know so many people as
Speaker 1: one of the benefits of the show is especially early on,
Speaker 1: like Jillian season actually was the first one. Also, she
Speaker 1: was a lot of first we had thirty people instead
Speaker 1: of twenty five, and we added five guys on that season,
Speaker 1: and so it was fun to get to know everybody.
Speaker 1: There was this camaraderie, there was this paternal spirit where
Speaker 1: we all got to hang out, and I used to
Speaker 1: hang out.
Speaker 2: We lived in a bunk house. Do you remember that.
Speaker 1: Well, you have to remember back then we hadn't reversed
Speaker 1: it yet. Jillian still lived in the Bachelor mansion. The
Speaker 1: guys didn't.
Speaker 2: Well, you say it out loud now, doesn't it sound
Speaker 2: like crazy?
Speaker 1: It was really dumb. And I forget exactly what season
Speaker 1: it was where we flipped it. And then the thirty
Speaker 1: people stayed in the Bachelor Mansion, and then of course
Speaker 1: the Bachelor bacherette would come and go, which makes a
Speaker 1: lot more sense because they can just stay in a hotel,
Speaker 1: a house anywhere else they need to. Finding a house
Speaker 1: for thirty people is not easy, and so that was
Speaker 1: pretty stupid that we didn't figure that out sooner.
Speaker 2: You guys built like temporary bousing. Oh yeah, the lot
Speaker 2: like on the mansion lot. My god.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you guys stayed in down what was the uh
Speaker 1: there was so the Bacheler Mansion that we shot at
Speaker 1: down this little hill as you go to Canaan Boulevard,
Speaker 1: which is what goes down. But you know, right in
Speaker 1: front of the house. If you're ever driving between Agora
Speaker 1: Hills and Malibu Canyon, that's what you're very findable, Yes,
Speaker 1: very findable. It's right off Canaan and so right off
Speaker 1: this right off of Canaan, the house you would actually
Speaker 1: see is the photography studio he was. He was a
Speaker 1: big photographer, and so we would use that house as
Speaker 1: the bunk house. That's where you guys stayed.
Speaker 2: Wow, and a thirty second hilarious story from the bunking. Yeah,
Speaker 2: there's a guy. I'm just gonna say his name because
Speaker 2: he's gonna love it. His name was Tanner. Tanner like
Speaker 2: a foot fetish kind of was his thing.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, in Dallas. Uh, we're sleeping in the cows. It
Speaker 2: was you know, June, so it was super hot and
Speaker 2: in the afternoon or we'd done night one. The next
Speaker 2: morning we were complaining the producers were like, you, guys,
Speaker 2: it's like ninety.
Speaker 1: Eight degrees so hot, it's like a sweatshot.
Speaker 2: So you know, they sent some pas and later that
Speaker 2: afternoon I was up in the bunkhouse and the top
Speaker 2: book with Tanner, like getting ready for the Rosery Mooney
Speaker 2: or something, and one of the producers came up and
Speaker 2: was like, guys, we got a ton of fans. They're
Speaker 2: on their way. And Tanner legitimately was like, oh, we
Speaker 2: already got fans. That is awesome. He thought he thought
Speaker 2: they were talking about like fans, legit fans our season
Speaker 2: as we were taping. He was so excited. Then when
Speaker 2: they brought up the plastic fans, he was like, oh,
Speaker 2: that's still awesome. Cool. No girls, though, rat no girl,
Speaker 2: we got fans already. Yeah, that's pretty cool.
Speaker 1: The uh that was also where we started traveling pretty well.
Speaker 2: Uh, it's true.
Speaker 1: Jillian was Canadian, so we we went up to Canada.
Speaker 1: I know we were up in damph and we went
Speaker 1: through cal and y'all went on the uh the Rocky
Speaker 1: Mountain Express or something like that, and I think we
Speaker 1: kicked somebody off at one of the stops.
Speaker 2: Right, Robbie, do you remember that name and Chris it
Speaker 2: didn't quite air this way with their shots in the
Speaker 2: trailer of the season. I cried that day. Legitimately on
Speaker 2: the he was like, kind of my one of my
Speaker 2: really good buddies. Yeah, and kicked him off. I didn't
Speaker 2: see it coming, so I cried about it.
Speaker 1: You made it to final five, I think, right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, which was again with starting with thirty that's a
Speaker 2: very big deal. That is a big deal of the Yeah,
Speaker 2: so hometown.
Speaker 1: It got down to Kipton Reid, who ended up breaking
Speaker 1: Jillian's heart and leaving in Hawaii. And Ed Swaderski.
Speaker 2: Yeah, who what where did that? He married someone in Chicago? Wait,
Speaker 2: but that also didn't go great.
Speaker 1: I think they were together, they were together for a
Speaker 1: little bit. So what was interesting on that season was
Speaker 1: Jake Pavelka was on your season. Who became Who became
Speaker 1: the Bachelor? Yeah? And it was interesting because I think
Speaker 1: we tried. I honestly think we tried to get Read
Speaker 1: to be the bachelor. He said.
Speaker 2: No.
Speaker 1: That was one of the early first knows we got.
Speaker 1: He didn't like being a part of the show. No.
Speaker 2: He would daily be like, why don't I know what's
Speaker 2: going on? At all times? Like someone when my practice
Speaker 2: that Yeah.
Speaker 1: He he he was oddly savvy for the times. I
Speaker 1: think he was kind of on to the producers of
Speaker 1: like I get that you're not here for me. I'm
Speaker 1: out of here. And so he left and he really
Speaker 1: broke Gillian's heart. That really made her sad, and then
Speaker 1: I think she ended up with Ed though at the end.
Speaker 2: Correct.
Speaker 1: And then so that season ends, Jake Pavelka comes out.
Speaker 1: He's a big hit. Several of the guys go on
Speaker 1: to what we now know as Bachelor Pad Season one
Speaker 1: that was the Bachelor and Bacherette had been so big.
Speaker 1: ABC came to us and said, the summer sucks. That
Speaker 1: is the doldrums of television. There's nothing on. Can you
Speaker 1: guys create something those two weeks before real TV starts
Speaker 1: in the fall, and so we could just promote our
Speaker 1: fall lineup. It doesn't even have to be good, just
Speaker 1: figure it out.
Speaker 2: That was the pitch you guys to next and to.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that was the pitch of like, just put something
Speaker 1: on TV because ABC just needs something. Yeah, in that summer,
Speaker 1: in that summer spot to promote the fall lineup.
Speaker 2: I had no idea. That was the origin. Fascinating to
Speaker 2: keep going to me.
Speaker 1: Now. It wasn't even this great you know idea. They're like, okay,
Speaker 1: let's do a game show, and we're just gonna shoot
Speaker 1: it on the cheap. We shot it at thee at
Speaker 1: the Mansion when it was in the middle of the summer,
Speaker 1: brutally freaking hot. But that's how that came to be,
Speaker 1: was just hey, we need something on ABC. Let's you know,
Speaker 1: they were better than reruns. So we thought, a quarter
Speaker 1: of a million dollars, this will be a game show
Speaker 1: where they're trying to find love, but at the end
Speaker 1: there's going to be a prisoner's dilemma where there's money
Speaker 1: on the line.
Speaker 2: So Survivor type of game mechanics.
Speaker 1: Survive had been on the air, you know, a look
Speaker 1: before us and I'm trying to take him by then,
Speaker 1: Amazing Race was probably on.
Speaker 2: That's true, and you had real world road rules challenges
Speaker 2: as well, at least in the zeitgeist that you guys
Speaker 2: were stealing some kind of game show concepts from.
Speaker 1: And Bachelor Pad one was kind of weird. We had
Speaker 1: to hire. They're like, well, this is a game show now,
Speaker 1: So we brought on standards and practices and we brought
Speaker 1: on this different producer. I forget his name, but he
Speaker 1: was more No, he was from Red Road Rules, I
Speaker 1: think maybe. And it was one of those guys though,
Speaker 1: And I'm glad I'm not going to say his name
Speaker 1: because it turned out he was not very good at
Speaker 1: what he does and so, but he was there because
Speaker 1: he had done game shows before and we didn't do
Speaker 1: game So he's like, I'm gonna help you guys, because
Speaker 1: there's certain rules you have to follow because there's a
Speaker 1: quarter of a million dollars on the line.
Speaker 2: Chris, this is what I wanted. I should have talked
Speaker 2: to this guy the thing that I text you about
Speaker 2: about Bachelor Pad three by the way ahead, but this
Speaker 2: he You're right, he probably either got got fired got
Speaker 2: and it might have been because of what the thing
Speaker 2: I text you about.
Speaker 1: Well, he got fired on Bachelor Pad one, and so
Speaker 1: Bachelor by the time we came in bacher Pad two,
Speaker 1: the producers are like, ah, we can just do this ourselves.
Speaker 1: We're just gonna run this game show and do it
Speaker 1: ourselves and try and create more love and more couples
Speaker 1: or whatever. So you come in on season two right
Speaker 1: of bacher Pad.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So the machine was a little bit more well oiled.
Speaker 2: From my perspective, it seemed like the contest were a
Speaker 2: little bigger.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Bacheler Pad one was a little messy. We're still
Speaker 1: trying to figure it out, throwing it against the wall
Speaker 1: to see what stuck. Bachelor Pad two were like, Look,
Speaker 1: we got to lean back into what we are, which
Speaker 1: is a reality show. It's about love, it's about breakups,
Speaker 1: it's about all that. But the problem was, to your point,
Speaker 1: there was still a quarter of a million dollars on
Speaker 1: the line and you game. You and Holly Durst won
Speaker 1: that season. Yeah, And the whole premise, just to catch
Speaker 1: people up, is you would kind of couple up towards
Speaker 1: the end of the show. You would have to find
Speaker 1: a partner, and that partner and you would go to
Speaker 1: the end and win challenges or lose challenges, and that
Speaker 1: at the end decide between the two of you, would
Speaker 1: you keep the two hundred fifty thousand, would you split
Speaker 1: the two hundred fifty thousand, And depending on what your
Speaker 1: partner said, that determined where the money went. So I
Speaker 1: think so the final four was Michelle, Money and Graham.
Speaker 1: But yes, yeah, good who I honestly I was shipping them.
Speaker 1: I wanted them to be a couple so bad.
Speaker 2: Oh, I thought you meant shipping them to win, and
Speaker 2: I was like, well, no, no.
Speaker 1: I wanted them to be a couple because I love
Speaker 1: Michelle Money and I love Graham very much. I was like,
Speaker 1: those two would be great together.
Speaker 2: And on the show it seemed like they're honestly like
Speaker 2: they really were, yeah, working out, and then it kind
Speaker 2: of quickly fizzled right after the show.
Speaker 1: In and now flash forward, Michelle Money is married to
Speaker 1: the President's Cup Captain Mike Weir.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know. It's one of my favorite things when
Speaker 2: I'm watching the PGA tour to be like, that's it's
Speaker 2: so cool that Michelle's married to that guy.
Speaker 1: So what do you remember then about Bachelor Pad?
Speaker 2: A almost completely different experience, i'd say than the rat right,
Speaker 2: Like I guess a, I don't know ilse to say this.
Speaker 2: And even though it was way less back then, there
Speaker 2: was fifteen minutes of fame that came after the bats
Speaker 2: Arette And remember I wasn't on the first season of
Speaker 2: Batser Pad and then the second season. You know, A, geez,
Speaker 2: this is dating my all going really back into the vault.
Speaker 2: But I had a music career at that point that
Speaker 2: I was kind of touring the country. It was called
Speaker 2: the Love Like This Tour, and I had a relationship.
Speaker 2: I was with Holly. I was engaged before batser Pad
Speaker 2: two aired, and then we broke up, and then they
Speaker 2: asked us both to be on this show. So, my god,
Speaker 2: if I had set the table well enough, you can
Speaker 2: imagine going into batser Pad two. How my frame of
Speaker 2: reference for what it was like batstt was like, let's
Speaker 2: fall in love and go on adventures.
Speaker 1: With my ex fiance.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Batser Pad two was like, oh god, okay one.
Speaker 2: I honestly wanted to, you know, just make it far
Speaker 2: on the show for the sake more fifteen minutes of fame.
Speaker 2: That sounds like I just sold my soul out, but
Speaker 2: you know, like I was aware you're also paying.
Speaker 1: I think we paid you guys a little snipen now
Speaker 1: be on bacher Pad, Yes, and winning two.
Speaker 2: And fifty grand like thumbs up. And you know, I'm
Speaker 2: a game designer, actually, Chris, so I'm competitive. So I
Speaker 2: was thinking about meta game how to win this son
Speaker 2: of movie like I wanted to do it and more specifically,
Speaker 2: and this is all the stuff that aired on the
Speaker 2: season if you watch it, and if not, hold on
Speaker 2: to something. Uh, Holly and I's relationship was rather unresolved,
Speaker 2: if I'm being honest. You know, we broke up out
Speaker 2: two weeks our engagement. We were engaged to be married
Speaker 2: two weeks before we stepped into the mansion, and you know,
Speaker 2: somewhat naively, both of us at twenty six, twenty seven.
Speaker 2: At that time, I think we were like, make ahead
Speaker 2: of it, yea, and that won't matter, but one two
Speaker 2: skip if you Within three days, I was back in
Speaker 2: love with her basically completely, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: And she had found another man named Blake, who was
Speaker 2: a dentist who was the most handsome guy probably ever right,
Speaker 2: and they hit it off right away. And still, you know, honestly,
Speaker 2: we'll give Holly credit for this. She also, genuinely, I think,
Speaker 2: felt confused about me too, like we had just broken up,
Speaker 2: and so we kissed a few times and went on
Speaker 2: a few dates kind of in the first half of
Speaker 2: the show and then the second half of the show.
Speaker 2: Not only did she continue to fall in love with
Speaker 2: dentist Blake, they got engaged before the finale of that
Speaker 2: Dad when Holly and I we continue to win challenges,
Speaker 2: we remained a couple. And then when it all aired, Chris,
Speaker 2: can you take me by like you get me back
Speaker 2: to that studio? What that felt like? Everyone, especially you,
Speaker 2: like in somebodys I was even mad at you, Chris.
Speaker 2: I was like, everyone knew that Blake Holly got engaged
Speaker 2: off camera. Guess who didn't know? You? I didn't know,
Speaker 2: which is how I'm smiling about it, because it's the
Speaker 2: best television.
Speaker 1: Well, that's the thing is, I would say, you just
Speaker 1: took the words of your mouth. It was the best
Speaker 1: of times. It was the worst of times because it
Speaker 1: was the best of times, and that you can't, gosh,
Speaker 1: it's so impossible to create TV that good. I mean,
Speaker 1: because it was so genuine. And that's the difference is
Speaker 1: now what you see a lot of times on a
Speaker 1: lot of shows is so manufactured. It's so heavy handedly produced.
Speaker 1: And while we did produce somewhat around you, guys, we
Speaker 1: are producing around you. Y'all were providing us that guttural
Speaker 1: feeling of love and heartbreak and all those things. And
Speaker 1: you know, the dastardly deed was keeping it from you
Speaker 1: and surprising you with it on the show. But what
Speaker 1: had happened was real. She had fallen in love with
Speaker 1: Blake and vice versa, and they really are this couple
Speaker 1: and they really did get married together. Yeah, that's what
Speaker 1: I mean. They are married and they are together, and
Speaker 1: they have a beautiful family. They have great teeth. And
Speaker 1: then there was Michael and I and you didn't give
Speaker 1: yourself an no credit that America had really fallen in
Speaker 1: love with you, this breakdance instructor that we had gotten
Speaker 1: to know on Jillian season. That was your title. You
Speaker 1: had gotten around for that year and really become a
Speaker 1: fan favorite. And people were really upset at Holly for
Speaker 1: falling in love with Blake because we love Michael. You know,
Speaker 1: we're team Stagliano. It was really this amazing confluence of
Speaker 1: things that happened naturally, and then we took advantage of it.
Speaker 1: For sure.
Speaker 2: I want to go back thirty seconds. There was something
Speaker 2: to Chris about at the end of the season. At
Speaker 2: the finale when it all went down and Holley and
Speaker 2: I won, we chose to split the money or we
Speaker 2: shared the money. The two hudred and fifty, so at
Speaker 2: least my wallet got happy.
Speaker 1: I lost the girl, but you got one hundred and
Speaker 1: twenty five thousand dollars.
Speaker 2: Yes, but wait, you don't even know this. We split
Speaker 2: the money with Graham and Michelle. We literally wrote them
Speaker 2: that was night two.
Speaker 1: You know what. I forgot that that happened.
Speaker 2: I know it was so illegal, and we did it
Speaker 2: anyway like time t We couldn't. You weren't allowed to
Speaker 2: do that, like VI, the VI the laws of that.
Speaker 2: You couldn't agree, but we totally anyway.
Speaker 1: Anyway anyway did wait, did producers know that or did
Speaker 1: Michelle just Michelle? Oh, Graham knew that.
Speaker 2: No, producers didn't know that. We even and then all
Speaker 2: four of us sent twenty five hundred dollars to Ella.
Speaker 2: Do you remember her? She was the single mom? Yes,
Speaker 2: bro this Yeah, they get a house and we all
Speaker 2: sent her house. I know. And it's part of what
Speaker 2: I mean too about like actually this will segue nicely
Speaker 2: into what I was going to get to Chris. I
Speaker 2: at least felt like I truly made friends kind of
Speaker 2: with the I mean honestly some of the crew too,
Speaker 2: Like the camera guys was hilarious, the light of guys,
Speaker 2: the sow guys, all those guys were so fun so
Speaker 2: and the producers and the contestants. Obviously, it really did
Speaker 2: kind of feel like, man, I don't know, we all
Speaker 2: went through this big thing together, and part of what
Speaker 2: the blind side of everyone keeping the engagement from me
Speaker 2: felt like real time, like I don't alwa to subscribe
Speaker 2: it is it was I was almost like, wait, so
Speaker 2: are these people my friends or not? Do you know
Speaker 2: what I mean?
Speaker 1: Like Alan made you question everything specifically.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and look, fifteen years later, you can obviously I'll
Speaker 2: look back and just say, everyone's just doing their job
Speaker 2: and trying to get a good television show. And Mike,
Speaker 2: I was kind of a puppy walking into things, not
Speaker 2: exactly just leading with my heart. So it's all love
Speaker 2: for everyone, but I do want to it is fun,
Speaker 2: at least to rehash out loud with you fifteen years later,
Speaker 2: the experience of being duped in a way that made man,
Speaker 2: at least, for whatever it's worth, phenomenal television.
Speaker 1: I mean, you think about what the what we just encapsulated.
Speaker 1: That's that was the beauty of our show. We had
Speaker 1: a couple that had fallen in love. They met on
Speaker 1: our show, they got engaged, they broke up two weeks later.
Speaker 1: We put them in a house together in again, and
Speaker 1: then they kind of start dating again.
Speaker 2: And we're and we're partners, and yeah.
Speaker 1: Your partner's in the game and it's on again, off again,
Speaker 1: and she falls in love with another contestant and they
Speaker 1: get engaged and it all comes to be at the
Speaker 1: grand finale.
Speaker 2: I mean it's too much. You couldn't.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you like, if I wrote that now, you'd be like,
Speaker 1: come on, dude, this You've gone a bridge too far.
Speaker 1: That's stupid. Yeah, And instead we just call it Michael's life.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I'm just alone living in an underpass in
Speaker 2: the valley now. No, that I've recovered fantasticly.
Speaker 1: Before we get to your life, you actually you you
Speaker 1: really became so popular and honestly, I hate to say it,
Speaker 1: because you were the lovable loser in that one and
Speaker 1: that relationship. The funny thing is, you won Bachelor Pad,
Speaker 1: but people saw you lose in love, so we talked
Speaker 1: about you as the bachelor. You didn't become the bachelor,
Speaker 1: but we wanted you back on Bachelor Pad again because
Speaker 1: everyone adored you so much. So now you come back
Speaker 1: on Bachelor Pad three. Very few contestants have been a
Speaker 1: part of as many shows as you have. So now
Speaker 1: you're back for a third season. Third year, you're twenty seven,
Speaker 1: twenty eight years old.
Speaker 2: Do you remember the twist for the third season? It
Speaker 2: was I think brilliant, well also a train wreck, which
Speaker 2: is its own type of brilliance.
Speaker 1: Which twist was this.
Speaker 2: It wasn't batter Pad one and two was nine guys
Speaker 2: and nine girls that were on the show. Batcher Pad
Speaker 2: three was half just fans people that had not been
Speaker 2: on the show, yes, and half people that had been.
Speaker 2: So it was kind of like putting a hat on
Speaker 2: a hat.
Speaker 1: Do you know that it was a terrible idea, You go,
Speaker 1: I'll be honest, until you just reminded me. I forgot
Speaker 1: we invited on the show.
Speaker 2: It was wild. It was the dynamic, is you know.
Speaker 2: I remember kind of the cast members being like, oh,
Speaker 2: so we're the celebrities obviously now of the show, which
Speaker 2: is just you know, and then the fans were like,
Speaker 2: not really, you're all kind of literally know what knows
Speaker 2: who you want? It tried to be famous and then
Speaker 2: the challenges you know against you told.
Speaker 1: Me, I do remember. There was kind of a cool,
Speaker 1: you know, kind of a cool girls high school lunch
Speaker 1: room feel to the show of cast versus non cast
Speaker 1: one hundred.
Speaker 2: Do you remember who led the charge? Do you remember
Speaker 2: her name?
Speaker 1: No?
Speaker 2: Rose, Erica Rose Mean Girls, Mean Girls fantastically.
Speaker 1: And by the way, the great thing about that was
Speaker 1: every now and then, and I don't remember them well
Speaker 1: enough now, but one one of them became cool enough
Speaker 1: to kind of make the leap to the cast side.
Speaker 2: Yeah, quite successfully.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and they were like, Okay, you're cool, you're different,
Speaker 1: but they're still they're still losers.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was. It was the shallowest I think the
Speaker 2: show got.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, on a lot of that was there were
Speaker 1: some bad challenges that season. There was a lot of
Speaker 1: bad stuff that season.
Speaker 2: Yes, there was a you had to hold trays of
Speaker 2: teacups as a race because they were supposed to do
Speaker 2: the kissing challenge, but someone got hurpies. That is an
Speaker 2: actual story. So they were like, we can't medically do it,
Speaker 2: So what's our game that we need.
Speaker 1: To do where we won't pass around an std.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1: In that that season, so that had kind of a
Speaker 1: controversial ending. You probably remember it different than I do.
Speaker 1: Uh yeah, well, I just remember obviously there. You know,
Speaker 1: that season I think was heavily produced, I felt, and
Speaker 1: that was the last season of bacher Pad we did
Speaker 1: before we just went to Bachelor in Paradise because what
Speaker 1: we learned was inherently the show was about money and
Speaker 1: the Bachelor and Bacherette's never been about money, and so
Speaker 1: we wanted to make it like our producing instincts were,
Speaker 1: let's make it about love. But there was this game show,
Speaker 1: so you had to service that, and so there was
Speaker 1: a there was a battle going on between do we
Speaker 1: care about the game show? And I was like, well,
Speaker 1: there's a quarter million dollars you have to but I
Speaker 1: don't know if we did a good enough job. And
Speaker 1: I think according to you, we did not do a
Speaker 1: very fair job of playing the game.
Speaker 2: For the third season. Yeah, well mine, my gripe is
Speaker 2: on a different level, Like it's on a very nerdy
Speaker 2: game mechanic level, and I can say it pretty concisely.
Speaker 2: The the game is dependent on a community votings voting
Speaker 2: system where people go in and bloat. They vote blindly,
Speaker 2: so no one else gets to see the person that
Speaker 2: they vote right.
Speaker 1: To kick off the island, just like Survivor, Just like Survivor.
Speaker 1: Not that we ripped off Survivor completely.
Speaker 2: Not completely legally, but just.
Speaker 1: I quit saying the tribe is spoken at least.
Speaker 2: Yeah. In the third season, for some reason, some producer
Speaker 2: allowed Erica Rose to go into the voting room with
Speaker 2: I think Chris Bukowski, which breaks the mechanics of the
Speaker 2: game because then Chris showed Erica that he wasn't voting
Speaker 2: for her, which is the lie that I told her
Speaker 2: because Chris was part of my alliance and that's what
Speaker 2: I was trying to set up. So when Erica came
Speaker 2: to me and said, well, I thow that Chris didn't
Speaker 2: vote me off, I was.
Speaker 1: Like, how did you see that?
Speaker 2: He saw it, and he was like, she said, well,
Speaker 2: they let me go with the voting group. And again
Speaker 2: I don't know. I couldn't. I don't remember where you were,
Speaker 2: if you were like in the wings or watching your by,
Speaker 2: but I literally put my hand up like on camera.
Speaker 2: It didn't air, but in front of the CA I
Speaker 2: was like, hey, I'm really confused. Eric is saying that
Speaker 2: she went into the voting room. That's obviously she wasn't
Speaker 2: allowed to do that, right, And then a Lawn was like,
Speaker 2: you know you see them go like hit up, yeah,
Speaker 2: And then they called like lawyers. They woke some guy up,
Speaker 2: but like two in the morning, they drove down, they
Speaker 2: stopped filming, and then they're like, okay, okay, okay, So
Speaker 2: there's been Do you remember any of this, Chris, No, No,
Speaker 2: it's fascinating.
Speaker 1: So I was not involved in any of this or
Speaker 1: the conversations.
Speaker 2: Well, as you can probably imagine, a they've got rules
Speaker 2: in place so that contestants can't get aft out.
Speaker 1: Of will you have standards and practices when you do
Speaker 1: a game show. It's different than you know, like Survivor
Speaker 1: is a game show, Dancing with the Stars, it's a game,
Speaker 1: and so there's a game element. So you have lawyers
Speaker 1: that are just standards and practices. They're there to watch
Speaker 1: the game and you have to adhere to those rules.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, And this is an example of not The
Speaker 2: one specific line in the contract that I read was
Speaker 2: like producers can't directly interfere with the results of voting right,
Speaker 2: And Erica is like, Allah, oh this I can't. Five
Speaker 2: years ago, no, ten years ago, I couldn't say anything.
Speaker 2: I think I get arrested, But now I could just
Speaker 2: say it's still so good. Erica Rose was like, Allah,
Speaker 2: just told me to go into the room with Chris.
Speaker 2: I don't And I was like, what do you mean
Speaker 2: Alan told you to do that? Like, he can't tell
Speaker 2: you to do that because that would give you knowledge
Speaker 2: that other contestants don't have, which is the enormous event
Speaker 2: that's direct leader. So again they brought the lawyers out.
Speaker 2: I really did. I feel like I made a good
Speaker 2: enough fuss that I was like, I feel like this
Speaker 2: is very illegal.
Speaker 1: Yes, we got to rectify that.
Speaker 2: So the head lawyer was like, Michael, just shut up,
Speaker 2: and I was like, all right.
Speaker 1: Okay, that's our answer.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know, like honestly, kind of the game
Speaker 2: was over. And so if you watch the batch that
Speaker 2: three Rose ceremony, would I get kicked off? You can
Speaker 2: kind of see it on everyone's face. Everyone's kind of like,
Speaker 2: so what is this all legal? Or like what is
Speaker 2: Michael going home? Like what do we It was so
Speaker 2: uncomfortable and bizarre and yeah, then Rachel was my partner
Speaker 2: and she was like, so you're going home and but
Speaker 2: aren't we in love? And I was like I don't
Speaker 2: think so. And now I'm.
Speaker 1: Leaving, like we're definitely not in love now sideways. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was such an of course, it ended with the
Speaker 1: prisoners dilemma where the winner he kept it himself.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Nick, ye baller move and Rachel, my partner, went
Speaker 2: on to win. And then Nick capped the money for himself.
Speaker 1: Or over and yeah, and I think they had an
Speaker 1: agreement and then he yeah, good again, good TV. But
Speaker 1: I think you know that inherently where we figured out, Okay,
Speaker 1: it's we got to stop. We got to stop the
Speaker 1: game show element. Let's just create Bachelor in Paradise. So
Speaker 1: we took a summer off and then came back with Paradise.
Speaker 2: And now and it's still on, right, isn't Paradise still on?
Speaker 1: It was not on last summer due to unfortunate circumstances
Speaker 1: of ratings, but they they claim that it will be
Speaker 1: back this summer.
Speaker 2: Okay, I won't. We shall see, but it's interesting And
Speaker 2: now I actually I'm curious about this too, Chris. What
Speaker 2: do you you have a production company? Right? Well, again,
Speaker 2: I know you doing anything bats related obviously.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yea, Lauren and I have a production company.
Speaker 2: And uh, are you doing yauty your scripted or feature?
Speaker 2: What are you guys trying to.
Speaker 1: We signed an overall deal with Merritt Street Media, which
Speaker 1: is Doctor Phil's new network out of Dallas.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 1: He created a new network and we've been Yeah, so
Speaker 1: we're in Austin and so we've been working with doctor
Speaker 1: Phil and his network and it's great. It's just it's
Speaker 1: so refreshing because he's just you know, the business has
Speaker 1: changed so much, you know, because you're in the business now.
Speaker 1: And we'll talk about that in a second, but you know,
Speaker 1: when you're pitching shows, you're talking to you're talking to
Speaker 1: a lot of tech people and you're talking to accountants
Speaker 1: now instead of creatives who understand the business, and you're
Speaker 1: trying to pitch them a show and they're just saying
Speaker 1: some really inane things and they don't You're like, are
Speaker 1: we even speaking the same language? And so it was
Speaker 1: nice to go into a creative meeting with someone like
Speaker 1: doctor Phil who's been in the business so long on
Speaker 1: both sides of the camera of producer and host of like, oh,
Speaker 1: I get what you're saying. Okay, let's go do this
Speaker 1: and this is how we're going to get it done.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So it's been really refreshing. It's been it's been fun.
Speaker 1: You have you're not break dancing anymore. You're not singing.
Speaker 2: Sometimes her career is over. Yeah, that all ended.
Speaker 1: Little known secret. The Stagliano brothers and I did play
Speaker 1: in a couple soccer tournaments together.
Speaker 2: That's right, good memory. Did you know Steve played semi
Speaker 2: pro two out here in La.
Speaker 1: Yeah he was. I was not going to say he
Speaker 1: was the better of the Stagliano brothers of something.
Speaker 2: No, don't say that on air.
Speaker 1: No, you and I talked about. I mean, god, it
Speaker 1: may have been a couple of years ago. Now when
Speaker 1: you're like, I have this idea of what I want
Speaker 1: to do, well, you've actually made this happen. So explain
Speaker 1: to us, like the origin story, and tell us what
Speaker 1: you're up to.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Chris, I don't even know where to begin. I
Speaker 2: suppose twelve years ago, after all the reality stuff ended,
Speaker 2: I I hard pivoted into screenwriting that I just felt
Speaker 2: this big old pull to do that. Honestly, I'd been
Speaker 2: a writer my whole life, but once I started screenwriting,
Speaker 2: it just there was a passion there that I knew
Speaker 2: wasn't gonna let me go. And it's been twelve years.
Speaker 2: I've written about forty scripts now, Like I don't know
Speaker 2: ten pilots, probably thirty features. Most of them are adaptation based,
Speaker 2: so I get hired from producers to take books and
Speaker 2: adapt them into screenplays, into few films. And yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: going from reality TV to scripted content and trying to
Speaker 2: get projects off the ground. I mean, you know, because
Speaker 2: you have been to do it. It's a beating. It's
Speaker 2: it's a ah gosh, Chris, It's both a beating, and
Speaker 2: it's probably the thing I've been the most passionate about
Speaker 2: in my life outside of my boys and my kids.
Speaker 2: I probably should have stopped a long time ago. Actually,
Speaker 2: let me be really really clear about this. In twelve years,
Speaker 2: this is so embarrassing, but it's fun to give people
Speaker 2: an insight into what it's like to be a screenwriter,
Speaker 2: I think, and make it in the entertainment industry. Last
Speaker 2: twelve years as a screenwriter, I've made ninety thousand dollars.
Speaker 2: That's obviously almost no money at all, But Or and
Speaker 2: I just I can't stop, like, I can't stop doing it.
Speaker 2: I just love it so much, so passionately. And you know,
Speaker 2: I have several projects optioned and in various stages of
Speaker 2: development trying to get off the ground, and most recently
Speaker 2: just published a show that I wrote and created with
Speaker 2: with a team of people that is out now that
Speaker 2: I'm honestly more excited about than all of the forty
Speaker 2: on the scripts.
Speaker 1: That is, Is this the podcast The Forgotten King?
Speaker 2: Yeah, so this is the one I text you about. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's called The Forgotten King.
Speaker 1: And it just came out I think I think September
Speaker 1: twenty sixth it debuted, it came out, that's correct. I
Speaker 1: assume we can we find this where all podcasts are found.
Speaker 2: Yeah, let me just straight up plug it. So it's
Speaker 2: The Forgotten King. You can find it on Apple and
Speaker 2: on Spotify really anywhere that you listen to podcasts, and
Speaker 2: on YouTube. And then the socials are TFK series. And
Speaker 2: the thirty second plug is if you like Game of Thrones,
Speaker 2: House of Dragons, Lord of the Rings, even Harry Potter,
Speaker 2: if you like those major fantasy properties. I have been
Speaker 2: studying them intimately for a decade, more than a decade,
Speaker 2: and this is my attempt at trying to give fans
Speaker 2: of that stuff. Huh, next bite, the next taste?
Speaker 1: Is this a story game? Uh?
Speaker 2: Yes and no right now.
Speaker 1: But explain explain to us because that's the kind of
Speaker 1: the genius of what you're trying to do here is
Speaker 1: is create a story game, but explain what that is
Speaker 1: and how you're creating that of for podcasts or for television.
Speaker 2: Sure, So, my brother and I have a studio called
Speaker 2: Story Games. It's a gaming and entertainment studio, and we're
Speaker 2: trying to be the first studio that has scripted content
Speaker 2: that has a relationship with gaming content, and in that
Speaker 2: the story is connected. So the story that you watch
Speaker 2: in the show is connected to the story that you
Speaker 2: play in the game. And The Forgotten King is the
Speaker 2: ip that we're you using to do that. So our
Speaker 2: first installment of the story of the Forgotten King is
Speaker 2: this audio drama. In case it isn't obvious for the listener,
Speaker 2: Making an animated fantasy series, which is the highest aspiration
Speaker 2: of what we want to do, is vanely expensive. Making
Speaker 2: an audio drama is pretty low cost but very high quality.
Speaker 2: We're really proud of, you know, the sound design and
Speaker 2: the scoring. We had a whole team put it together,
Speaker 2: and the hope is to use that to you know,
Speaker 2: get enough of a crowd and awareness so that one
Speaker 2: day we can make it, turn it, adapt it into
Speaker 2: a fantasy series that then has a relationship with gaming content,
Speaker 2: which again is just kind of revolutionary and we're super
Speaker 2: passionate about it. We've been doing it for about eighteen months.
Speaker 1: We had about relations And by the way, for those
Speaker 1: of you that you didn't keep up in the tabloids,
Speaker 1: Michael did end up finding love. You and Emily have
Speaker 1: been married ten eleven years.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I was just saying, because the kids are what you've
Speaker 1: had your Hunter Bowen, I think twenty sixteen was when
Speaker 1: you I think when you had your first kid, yeah Bowen, yep, yeah,
Speaker 1: And so that, like you said, life changes so much.
Speaker 1: Your perspective changes, being a dad now being married for
Speaker 1: so long, it is amazing you look back and fifteen
Speaker 1: years ago you're single and you're twenty five and you're
Speaker 1: on reality TV. To now the things you're responsible for,
Speaker 1: the things you care about are just it's so exponentially different.
Speaker 2: Chris. It's I if I did anything right going on
Speaker 2: the show and having time in the spotlight, it was
Speaker 2: using that to find Emily. She's the greatest thing that
Speaker 2: has ever happened in my life, you know. And not
Speaker 2: to get super romantic about it at the end here,
Speaker 2: but the twenty six year old, the twenty five year
Speaker 2: old that went on the batsurette to find that little
Speaker 2: part of me that was like, yeah, yeah, sure, this
Speaker 2: is a way to the greatest human to marry. Ever, honestly,
Speaker 2: I did get that. I did. It took a while,
Speaker 2: some bumps and bruises, a lot of heartbreak, but Emily
Speaker 2: is to this day. And for those of you who
Speaker 2: have been married for more than ten years, you know
Speaker 2: how hard it is to say I am crazy about Emily.
Speaker 2: She is. She's she's the best. And her two boys,
Speaker 2: you know, are the best obviously as well. So yeah,
Speaker 2: it's it's been a it's been it's been a good journey.
Speaker 1: What are the boys into these days where they're just
Speaker 1: what eight nine years old and six seven, six and.
Speaker 2: Seven seven right now? Bowen turned eight tomorrow, but they're
Speaker 2: six and seven, okay, and they're into soccer and basketball
Speaker 2: and jiu jitsu. And I'm a blue belt in jiu jitsu.
Speaker 1: By the way, that that is awesome. I you know,
Speaker 1: I know my son got into martial arts jiu jitsu.
Speaker 1: I mean, I can't say it wasn't a thing back then,
Speaker 1: but jiu jitsu is now it's become such a bigger thing. Obviously,
Speaker 1: the discipline has been around for many, many, you know, centuries,
Speaker 1: but it's become more commonplace now. And if I could
Speaker 1: do it all over again, I would have gotten involved
Speaker 1: in that. But he went through the martial arts and
Speaker 1: karate and became a black belt, and that discipline and
Speaker 1: the controlling of his own body and emotions and all
Speaker 1: that did wonders for him.
Speaker 2: I could not recommend it more, especially for kids that
Speaker 2: struggle with you know, stress, anxiety, self confidence. If they
Speaker 2: leads the stuff, yeah, the impact is pretty immediate, I'd
Speaker 2: say for kids, yep.
Speaker 1: And it's funny. And I think this in our in
Speaker 1: this day and age, in our society, like there is
Speaker 1: there's so much anxiety, and there's so much we worry
Speaker 1: about so much, and I think we treat people with
Speaker 1: kid gloves so much. I think going the opposite direction
Speaker 1: of the physicality of jiu jitsu, and it's not that
Speaker 1: you're trying to hurt somebody, because you're not. Same thing
Speaker 1: with karate, and what Joshua was learning it was really
Speaker 1: controlling his emotions and controlling being in this storm. But
Speaker 1: being able to control that is so huge and it
Speaker 1: really does convey to every other aspect of your life.
Speaker 2: That was incredibly well described. Yeah, the mental jiu jitsu
Speaker 2: is a physical martial art. Obviously, you're grappling, You're trying
Speaker 2: to submit your opponent to the point where they're like
Speaker 2: if you if I don't tap right now, I'll either
Speaker 2: pass out or your break my arm. Like, so let's
Speaker 2: say fight. I mean that that's yeah, very much the
Speaker 2: table stakes. But learning how to be calm in that environment.
Speaker 2: The application of that goes well beyond just rolling on
Speaker 2: a jiu jitsu Matt, you know what I mean. You
Speaker 2: can apply that to work in life, and it's a
Speaker 2: big deal. Yeah, and all martial arts, I think, Yeah,
Speaker 2: that mental side is it is great for your kids
Speaker 2: and being just being involved in sports and all that.
Speaker 1: It's it's I don't know if you've noticed. I'm not
Speaker 1: going to call you an old dad, but you're forty,
Speaker 1: so you I I just think that what I was
Speaker 1: a bit younger when my kids were your kids age,
Speaker 1: and I think I cared about certain things too much
Speaker 1: the wrong way.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: It's like, you know, you're too into sports, You're too
Speaker 1: into It's like I didn't have a good grasp of
Speaker 1: what's really important.
Speaker 2: Emily and I, I think are trying to keep this
Speaker 2: lens of what are boys good at and passionate about?
Speaker 2: And how do we foster them into that. I think
Speaker 2: it's very easy to especially as the dad, I feel like, say,
Speaker 2: you're gonna do this.
Speaker 1: You're gonna play football for the Green Bay Packers.
Speaker 2: I am a Packers fan. Did you know that? So?
Speaker 1: Yes, that's a little fan. Everybody knows you're a Packers fan.
Speaker 1: Brett Favre knows you're a Packers fan.
Speaker 2: And trying to Yeah, just both emotionally. I think you know,
Speaker 2: as dad, I don't know if i'd say our generation
Speaker 2: growing up, our dads really knew how to emotionally support kids.
Speaker 2: When I say that my.
Speaker 1: Dad, I don't remember my dad as a child. Going, Chris,
Speaker 1: how do you feel right now? How does that make
Speaker 1: you feel?
Speaker 2: Now? It was just this is how I feel, and
Speaker 2: you deal with that.
Speaker 1: Dad, I just want to emote right now. Can I
Speaker 1: just tell you my emotions?
Speaker 2: Do you feel like though with your son? Now, Chris,
Speaker 2: you do get to have a dialogue that's like, hey,
Speaker 2: I care about your.
Speaker 1: Opinion one hundred percent. I started again you are. This
Speaker 1: is why you have to kind of it's important to
Speaker 1: when there is a and my parents are wonderful, my dad,
Speaker 1: both my mom and dad and God are still alive
Speaker 1: and they're great parents. But you talk about breaking the
Speaker 1: cycle of something, you know, my dad was you know,
Speaker 1: I grew up in Texas in the seventies and eighties.
Speaker 1: My it's my way or the highway, Yes, ma'am, Yes, sir,
Speaker 1: why is it this way? Because that's what I just said.
Speaker 2: He hug and kiss you started to get real.
Speaker 1: My parents love I always say love was spoken in
Speaker 1: my house. We all said I love you. We definitely touched.
Speaker 1: We like we would hug each other to this day,
Speaker 1: we hug each other say I love you. That part
Speaker 1: was very advanced. I have to give my dad credit
Speaker 1: my mom. My mom is from a Jewish family, which
Speaker 1: I kind of Likento Italians. They're very touchy feely, were
Speaker 1: very We're very emotional, so you know, we talk with
Speaker 1: our hands and it's a part of a tribe. My
Speaker 1: dad was not a part of that and was very
Speaker 1: Texan and very kind of cowboy redneck, but he did
Speaker 1: get that love gene. Maybe you got it from my
Speaker 1: mom and her family.
Speaker 2: How much of them did you pick up, Chris, like
Speaker 2: when you think about yourself, A lot of.
Speaker 1: It, A lot of I very much from the beginning
Speaker 1: told my kids I love them. I still do. My
Speaker 1: son is I give him a lot of credit to
Speaker 1: this day. You know, even in those awkward years, he
Speaker 1: would come up and give us a hug in the
Speaker 1: middle of the lacrosse team or you know, in a crowd.
Speaker 1: And so I love that stuff when I see I
Speaker 1: think it is so important. And I have met people
Speaker 1: along the way who their parents never said I love
Speaker 1: you and never spoke that out loud, and not having
Speaker 1: that is it's hugely detrimental. I think you have to
Speaker 1: speak that into existence. You have to hug. Physical touch
Speaker 1: is a huge thing for kids. And so yeah, luckily
Speaker 1: I did find early on I was my way or
Speaker 1: the highway with my son, and you know, I would
Speaker 1: spank him and just like my dad did, and I
Speaker 1: just I know, there was this epiphany one time of like,
Speaker 1: I'm not achieving the results that I want here. I
Speaker 1: don't even know why I'm doing this anymore. And I started,
Speaker 1: you know, changing my ways. And that's it's growth, it's evolution,
Speaker 1: it's learning. But it goes to show with anything in
Speaker 1: society is you have to give people the space to
Speaker 1: learn and grow. And I don't judge my dad for
Speaker 1: who he was. He was a great dad and he
Speaker 1: I think he created a good man. I'm a gentleman,
Speaker 1: but I think I've done a better job.
Speaker 2: I don't know, maybe this I hope this doesn't sound
Speaker 2: like a cop out, but like times were different back then,
Speaker 2: Like I think as a community of like our brotherhood
Speaker 2: of men and fathers, people just thought Michael.
Speaker 1: To act like they weren't different is doing it a
Speaker 1: great injustice, and it's doing the people a great It
Speaker 1: would be doing my dad a great injustice or his granddad,
Speaker 1: you know, Like I've talked to my dad about his
Speaker 1: mom dying, and I'm like, well, what did you and granddaddy,
Speaker 1: that's his dad. What did y'all talk about after that?
Speaker 1: I've never talked about it, Michael, they never had a discussion.
Speaker 2: Part of your does part of you, you know, your
Speaker 2: heart breaks for that, or or is part of you
Speaker 2: like I wonder if it's because they said everything that
Speaker 2: needed to be said before.
Speaker 1: No, it's because they didn't know how to communicate. It's
Speaker 1: because they just didn't do that back then, and now
Speaker 1: look maybe.
Speaker 2: Why they were less stressed back then.
Speaker 1: Maybe, but look maybe the look the pendulum swung. I
Speaker 1: was a latch key kid and then the pendulum swings,
Speaker 1: and now we're helicopter parents. I think we may need
Speaker 1: to get back to not caring a little bit more,
Speaker 1: you know, and giving kids a little more grope. But
Speaker 1: it always finds a way. Are how do you find you?
Speaker 1: Do you find yourself being a helicopter parent?
Speaker 2: No, I'm just I'm gonna lean on Emily again here
Speaker 2: and give for the praise. I think Emily has figured
Speaker 2: out how to be a great parent, and then I
Speaker 2: kind of lean on that. And honestly, Chris, you probably
Speaker 2: can remember this from my days as a breakdance instructor
Speaker 2: on a reality time So.
Speaker 1: How many times you say the exit a lot? I?
Speaker 2: You know, I'm I'm the fun dad. I act like
Speaker 2: a princess and then a transformer and I throw them
Speaker 2: in the pool. I beat the crap out of them,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean? Like, I am I'm that
Speaker 2: and though and Emily's the love and the comfort and
Speaker 2: the hey emotional support, and I've tried to do that
Speaker 2: as well, but especially because they're dudes. I feel like
Speaker 2: I'm also much more the disciplinarian. Like when I walk
Speaker 2: in the room, I don't really need to say anything.
Speaker 2: Especially family is like Dad, he's coming in here. You know,
Speaker 2: I'm kind of the I lay down the law a
Speaker 2: little bit more, which which feels good. And then to
Speaker 2: answer you directly, the helicoptery thing. One of our sons,
Speaker 2: Hunter was developmentally delayed and had you know, speech and ot.
Speaker 2: He actually just graduated like a week ago, which I'm
Speaker 2: telling you was like I got the fucking party basically,
Speaker 2: so happy graduated. Actually it's a really big deal anyway.
Speaker 2: But because of that, I felt like we were very involved.
Speaker 2: Like his i EP individualized education program and Emily took
Speaker 2: most of that way, but yeah, I drove him all
Speaker 2: over the place. So I feel very involved in that
Speaker 2: sense of the world, but not like a we still
Speaker 2: cut fruit small. Maybe that's a hell. There's still things that.
Speaker 1: No, it's look the two things I always say, you
Speaker 1: can be as a parent involved in their life and
Speaker 1: love them. Yeah, look, there's a lot of thing. There's
Speaker 1: a lot of things around there, but you know they're
Speaker 1: gonna they're gonna do things around you and without you whatever.
Speaker 1: But if you're involved in their life, you know who
Speaker 1: their friends are, you know what they're up to, you
Speaker 1: know what's going on, and you love them. It seems
Speaker 1: to find a way.
Speaker 2: And put them in physical combat with other kids.
Speaker 1: It's a lost art. I think there was a big
Speaker 1: generation that kind of went through where we're like, you know, no,
Speaker 1: no fisticuffs, no rough stuff. No, you know, it's absolutely
Speaker 1: you know, no tackling in doing jiu jitsu. I you know,
Speaker 1: it's funny I have, but I feel like it's an.
Speaker 2: Old man's Yeah, yeah, calling an old man. But most
Speaker 2: of the guys in my gym are older than me
Speaker 2: by so I know.
Speaker 1: Joe Rogan is massively involved in it. Russell Brand is
Speaker 1: a huge jiu jitsu fame.
Speaker 2: Watch a lot of their content.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and they're really into it. And I think it's
Speaker 1: a great I think it's a wonderful discipline. I feel
Speaker 1: like if I get into it now, I'm just gonna
Speaker 1: get my ass kicked.
Speaker 2: No, you're so long, it's the opposite. Actually, well, I'm sorry.
Speaker 2: It depends on the gym. You should if you do
Speaker 2: check it out.
Speaker 1: Oh good, here comes the Bachelor. Guy. You're gonna beat
Speaker 1: his ass.
Speaker 2: You will have a stigma for sure walking in. Actually, honestly,
Speaker 2: after or a few of the guys at my gym
Speaker 2: were like, you know that, we know who you are, right,
Speaker 2: And I was like, no, I would have no. I
Speaker 2: have been fun.
Speaker 1: We've had fun pounding you reality boy. But yeah, yeah, Michael,
Speaker 1: I am so glad we caught up my friend Chris.
Speaker 2: It's hard to know what to say. This really meant
Speaker 2: a lot. I feel like I should just you know,
Speaker 2: I reached out to you to be on your show,
Speaker 2: which is like the most uncool, washed up reality star
Speaker 2: thing you can do. I do thank you. It was
Speaker 2: so cool.
Speaker 1: Right up until that point, you were better than JP Rosenbaub,
Speaker 1: But now you just flew it.
Speaker 2: It was right there.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we are right there. Really though, one of the
Speaker 1: great things about this show, and I say it all
Speaker 1: the time, is that I have this group of friends
Speaker 1: that I've met and it was only because of this show.
Speaker 1: These people came into my life for a reason a season,
Speaker 1: but many of them have stayed and you are one
Speaker 1: of those. And actually, your brother, who wasn't even a
Speaker 1: part of the show, has been a part of my life.
Speaker 1: And that's a wonderful thing. So I appreciate you taking
Speaker 1: the time and wish you nothing but the best.
Speaker 2: It truly was my pleasure, Chris. I have nothing but
Speaker 2: good things to say, and we'll continue to just really
Speaker 2: be a fan of yours. Buddy. It meant a lot
Speaker 2: to have me on.
Speaker 1: Love you and I'll talk to you soon, all right, buddy,
Speaker 1: take care, Thanks for listening. Follow us on Instagram at
Speaker 1: the most dramatic pod ever, and make sure to write
Speaker 1: us a review and leave us five stars. I'll talk
Speaker 1: to you next time.