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Speaker 1: This is the most dramatic podcast ever and iHeartRadio podcast.

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Speaker 1: Chris Harrison coming to you from the home office in Austin,

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Speaker 1: Texas today, And I'm really excited about this show because

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Speaker 1: I'm kind of diving back into the history books, into

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Speaker 1: the archives an old friend of mine, and I say

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Speaker 1: old because well we are now. Michael Stagliano. You guys

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Speaker 1: might remember him from his Bachelorette and Bachelor Pad days. Well,

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Speaker 1: I was listening to a podcast the other day and

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Speaker 1: he said that he was celebrating his fifteenth anniversary of

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Speaker 1: being on the show. I was like, there's no way

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Speaker 1: that can't be true. Fifteen years that's when that season

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Speaker 1: Jillian Harris is season of The Bachelorette. I had to

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Speaker 1: go back. I honestly had to google it and look

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Speaker 1: it up, and I'm like, damn it, he's right. Fifteen

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Speaker 1: years ago. He was on season five The Bacheorette with

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Speaker 1: Jillian Harris, who, if you don't remember, was this really fun,

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Speaker 1: loving Canadian girl and it was a great season. When

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Speaker 1: I look back at seasons, I look back at who

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Speaker 1: was on it, and I'm like, wow, so many people

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Speaker 1: came from that show to be a part of Bachelor Pad,

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Speaker 1: Future Bachelor's, Bachelor in Paradise, etc. And that was one

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Speaker 1: of those seasons, that kind of lightning bulb season where

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Speaker 1: a lot of stars from our franchise came from it,

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Speaker 1: and Michael Stagliano was one of them. He became really

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Speaker 1: popular because he was not only on the Bachelorette with Jillian.

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Speaker 1: He didn't win that season spoiler alert, but he went

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Speaker 1: on to season two of Bachelor Pad and season three

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Speaker 1: of Bachelor Pad, which was a bit of a game

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Speaker 1: show we started back in the day where there was

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Speaker 1: two hundred and fifty thousand dollars on the line. We

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Speaker 1: would bring in nine women and nine guys from this

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Speaker 1: show that was just on and they would compete and

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Speaker 1: try and couple up, et cetera. And it was fun

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Speaker 1: and that is what led to Bachelor in Paradise. We

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Speaker 1: took a summer off and then Paradise came in because

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Speaker 1: the game show element was a little problematic for us

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Speaker 1: because we always wanted to dive into the relationships and

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Speaker 1: the love and the romance and the drama, but you

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Speaker 1: had to really service the game show aspect. So Stagliano,

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Speaker 1: we actually talked about him becoming the Bachelor on a

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Speaker 1: couple of occasions, and then for one reason or another,

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Speaker 1: Jake Pavelka became the Bachelor and whoever else took over,

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Speaker 1: and it just kind of got away from him as

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Speaker 1: far as being the Bachelor, but we always kept him

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Speaker 1: in the franchise because he was so popular and it

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Speaker 1: was it was just it really struck me that he

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Speaker 1: was on the show fifteen years ago. So I thought

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Speaker 1: we got to revisit this, and I want to have

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Speaker 1: him on the show today to talk about those seasons

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Speaker 1: and what he remembers looking back and then where he

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Speaker 1: is now. So welcoming Michael Stagliano to the most dramatic

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Speaker 1: podcast ever. Why do you still look about the same age.

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Speaker 1: It's you know, we're celebrating the fifteen year reunion of

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Speaker 1: you being on the show.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. When you say it out loud, Chris, it dates

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Speaker 2: us us considerably. So that puts me I'm forty.

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Speaker 1: Now, Chris, Well, well let me date you further. I

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Speaker 1: had been doing the show for quite some time before

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Speaker 1: you go on Sefty two. Don't age me, don't age me.

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Speaker 1: I look great, I do. I found myself telling people

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Speaker 1: that I'm just older now. So they'll be like, oh,

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Speaker 1: you look good for your age.

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Speaker 2: You do look good for your age.

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Speaker 1: I am fifty three.

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Speaker 2: Chris, You're fantastic for your age. Let me be adamant

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Speaker 2: about it. What do you I bet Lauren has you

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Speaker 2: eating very well?

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Speaker 1: She does, she keeps. And you know, here's the thing.

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Speaker 2: I don't.

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Speaker 1: I started going gray. You can't see it, but yeah,

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Speaker 1: but I didn't go Ari gray like Ari started. I

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Speaker 1: Ari started going gray and he beat me. He just

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Speaker 1: went gray. We were at long Gale's wedding and I'm like, dude,

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Speaker 1: you're You've gone full gray, so like mine, hit the

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Speaker 1: sides and it just kind of stops so up top,

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Speaker 1: I have not. I don't know why I'm I'm holding on.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but even in the facial hair, it looks it

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Speaker 2: looks sophisticated on you, not like, oh, he's getting Do

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Speaker 2: you know what I mean when I say that?

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Speaker 1: Well, you know it's funny. So and I'm sure I

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Speaker 1: don't know if this happened to you. You still have

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Speaker 1: a nice, thick, dark beard. And I would trim my

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Speaker 1: beard and then you would empty out the little shavings

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Speaker 1: and it used to be, oh, it's all all pepper

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Speaker 1: and then it would be oh, there's a little salt

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Speaker 1: in there. Now it's like, wow, is there any pepper

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Speaker 1: in here? Is it all salt?

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Speaker 2: Oh? Is this what I have to look forward to?

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Speaker 1: Yes? But the good news is salt, we have now learned,

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Speaker 1: has gone done to three sixty. It's good for you again.

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Speaker 1: So salt is good. So we're that's you. Should you

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Speaker 1: stay stay hydrated.

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Speaker 2: Wait, I'm sorry, do you mean like only Himilian sea.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, only Himialan sea salt, not the salt on your face?

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Speaker 2: Got it? Yes, big difference, big difference.

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Speaker 1: But no, I was so you and I were talking

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Speaker 1: and I had I guess I saw something else you did.

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Speaker 1: And you mentioned this has been fifteen years, the fifteen

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Speaker 1: year reunion or anniversary of you doing the show, And

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Speaker 1: I'm like, my god, that's right. Gillian Harris's season, which

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Speaker 1: was I believe season five of The Bachelorette Chris.

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Speaker 2: It was the first season that aired in high definition.

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Speaker 2: Really think about that. Oh, that's right, historic that season

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Speaker 2: was and she was the best ever. But yes, she

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Speaker 2: was our first non American, first non American, she was

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Speaker 2: we had a Canadian, she was Canadian. That's funny.

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Speaker 1: I didn't. I didn't realize that that was our first

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Speaker 1: HD show. Man, my life changed. I was so good

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Speaker 1: in uh low Death. I was crushing it.

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Speaker 2: Well, how many years did you do it? You did

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Speaker 2: at least a decade more right? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: I did ten years in high definition. I was holding

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Speaker 1: on for dear life. I created the entire scandal just

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Speaker 1: so I could just get away from high high definition TV,

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Speaker 1: and you.

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Speaker 2: Pulled it off. This always I actually have a fascination

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Speaker 2: around this. Yes, what what do you remember from that time?

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Speaker 2: It seems to me like the show has changed quite

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Speaker 2: a lot. Maybe about that, but from what I've heard,

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Speaker 2: it seems like it's changed a lot. What do you

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Speaker 2: remember from even like Bachelor Pad days, the shout I.

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Speaker 1: I don't mean this in a negative way at all

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Speaker 1: to the presence or to the future. I know I

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Speaker 1: remember it being fun and and and that goes a

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Speaker 1: lot to where I was in my life of just

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Speaker 1: being younger and starting out in this this ride in

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Speaker 1: this career, and the show was really banging back then.

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Speaker 1: I mean, we were crushing it. By Jillian season, we

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Speaker 1: weren't the number one show on television anymore, but we

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Speaker 1: were the number one show on ABC. We were still

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Speaker 1: dominating our night, and so we're on a roll, right,

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Speaker 1: We're still on a heater, And I was just so

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Speaker 1: much more. Maybe it's because I was closer in age

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Speaker 1: to a lot of you, and so I befriended Jillian,

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Speaker 1: I got to be friends with you, you know. I remember

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Speaker 1: some of the other people that came through that season.

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Speaker 2: Even the crew. It seemed like was said it was

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Speaker 2: kind of a good vibe.

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Speaker 1: There was this collegial camaraderie with us, with us all

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Speaker 1: just having having fun. Nothing was controversial really back then,

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Speaker 1: if you remember it, it wasn't. Everything didn't mean everything, you.

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Speaker 2: Know what I mean.

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Speaker 1: I feel like now, I feel like now everything that

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Speaker 1: is said and done has to mean everything, and it

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Speaker 1: gets dissected and torn apart, and it's like, you can't

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Speaker 1: live like that. You can't produce television like that, and

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Speaker 1: you certainly can't be a contestant, a silly contestant on

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Speaker 1: a silly reality show like that, because you can't be

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Speaker 1: that serious. You can't take yourself that serious.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe that's part of the shift that's happened. And

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Speaker 2: I would say that I'm a limited I have limited

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Speaker 2: knowledge about what the franchise is like, you know, kind

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Speaker 2: of in the middle eight years since I was on

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Speaker 2: from it. But I did watch The Golden Bachelor. Did

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Speaker 2: you happen to watch that?

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Speaker 1: I did, And I'll be honest, I haven't watched anything

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Speaker 1: since I.

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Speaker 2: I can't imagine, and I'm in the same boat. I

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Speaker 2: hadn't watched any for such a long time. And then

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Speaker 2: I watched The Golden Batchelor, and at the Golden at

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Speaker 2: least seemed like it had some sincere moments of like, Wow,

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Speaker 2: these older people are here to find love and it

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Speaker 2: kind of had that magic if if I'm being honest,

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Speaker 2: but yes, to respond to kind of what you were

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Speaker 2: saying about the culture and how fun it was on

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Speaker 2: set back then, I yeah, I can imagine.

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Speaker 1: It was, and I think there was a time when

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Speaker 1: you could protect certain people from themselves. Like there was

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Speaker 1: a person I won't name names. It was not you,

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Speaker 1: I will say that, but there was someone on There

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Speaker 1: was someone on your season, Jillian season, that was a

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Speaker 1: little problematic and they were just kind of dealt with.

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Speaker 1: They said some really inappropriate things and it went away

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Speaker 1: and they went away. That wouldn't happen today.

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Speaker 2: No, That's what I was gonna say, Wow, man, it

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Speaker 2: makes me fascinated. What you think would happen if all

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Speaker 2: that stuff with He who shall not be named, Yeah.

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Speaker 1: They would. They would just be out. Everything they said

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Speaker 1: would have been public knowledge. They would have been absolutely

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Speaker 1: crucified for it, and maybe rightfully so. But to us,

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Speaker 1: it was something that didn't drive the story, so it

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Speaker 1: didn't need to be outed and talked about, and so

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Speaker 1: we just let him go on his way. We made

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Speaker 1: sure that Jillian didn't end up with him. That's important,

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Speaker 1: but look, we don't need to ruin his life. He

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Speaker 1: doesn't need to tarnish the show, et cetera. Let's just

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Speaker 1: go our separate ways, by gods, And that's the way

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Speaker 1: I think the world used to be on a larger

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Speaker 1: scale of you didn't have to stop and then make

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Speaker 1: an example of every single thing. I think socially, you're

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Speaker 1: almost activated to do that now, and that that really

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Speaker 1: changes how you approach every situation. I can't imagine how

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Speaker 1: people have to approach being on a reality show now.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm going to ask you that if you've seen

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Speaker 2: a IF while you were with a franchise or maybe

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Speaker 2: just in reality TV in general, you know, if there's

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Speaker 2: if there's been a shift from people that just want

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Speaker 2: to use it as a platform to get famous versus

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Speaker 2: bastl or specifically back in the day, social media didn't exist.

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Speaker 2: So we went on to find love, like I'm putting

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Speaker 2: that in Giant Air the listener, you know, like I

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Speaker 2: wonder if that if you have a sense of that,

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Speaker 2: like if it just changed, like.

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Speaker 1: You know, did I mean, look, I mean it's because

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Speaker 1: you know, look I used to talk about, you know,

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Speaker 1: like what changed in love and dating and all that

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Speaker 1: when you were on the show. I said, Well, when

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Speaker 1: we started in O two one, there was such thing

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Speaker 1: as a blog and that was it, and you really

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Speaker 1: got your news from Entertainment Tonight, People Magazine, US Magazine,

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Speaker 1: those things, and those would come out much later and

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Speaker 1: you would kind of get a snapshot of what's going on,

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Speaker 1: and that's it, you know. That's you'd go on the

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Speaker 1: tabloid shows and you would hear some things. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: social media didn't change, and you guys, you guys kind

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Speaker 1: of got the best part of it where you didn't

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Speaker 1: go on for social media, but you got social media later.

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Speaker 1: Whereas and then there was that crew that came on

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Speaker 1: for social media, and they crushed it.

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Speaker 2: I got to know a lot of those guys too well.

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Speaker 1: I would say the JoJo's of the world beca tilly.

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Speaker 1: I'm trying to think of those that just absolutely have

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Speaker 1: crushed it on social media.

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Speaker 2: Barstow right, doesn't she have her own platform and show

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Speaker 2: now right?

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Speaker 1: I think there's yeah, cal yeah, Kayla, Barsta. She has

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Speaker 1: her own thing and definitely benefited from social media. And

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Speaker 1: you know, we used to name people the Bachelor or

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Speaker 1: Bacherette and they would end up with a million or

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Speaker 1: two million followers immediately. Now you know, you might have

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Speaker 1: one hundred thousand, a couple hundred thousand, and it's just

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Speaker 1: you don't move the zeitgeist and you don't move the

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Speaker 1: needle that much on social media. Which that's a hard

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Speaker 1: thing to sell because one of the things we used

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Speaker 1: to be able to sell was, look, Michael, come on

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Speaker 1: the show, do the things we ask you to do.

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Speaker 1: You're gonna get a lot of residual bump out of

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Speaker 1: this show. And it's probably tough, I'm guessing to cast

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Speaker 1: the show now because you can't promise that what do

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Speaker 1: you remember from the show, Well, like, do you remember

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Speaker 1: not not from Bachelor? Pad, we'll get to that, because

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Speaker 1: you went on to be on Bachelor Pad, but being

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Speaker 1: on Jillian season of The Bachelorette, you weren't. It wasn't

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Speaker 1: the new freshman year, but it wasn't senior year. I

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Speaker 1: would say you were in the middle kind of sophomore

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Speaker 1: junior year of the show being really good.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's fair. Geez, what do I look

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Speaker 2: back at now, Chris? Mostly you know, I was twenty five,

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Speaker 2: which is a toddler in some sense compared to what

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Speaker 2: it feels like to be forty and where I at now.

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Speaker 1: Your front your frontal lobe wasn't even formed yet.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, to be medically specific, yeah, right, an infant.

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Speaker 2: But you probably can resonate with this too, especially now

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Speaker 2: that I have kids. Like happens when you have kids,

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Speaker 2: and it changes how you look at kind of how

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Speaker 2: you were when you were younger. And obviously we're exaggerating

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Speaker 2: a little bit, but to be more specific about it,

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Speaker 2: when I was twenty five, Chris, you know, like the

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Speaker 2: idea of going on a TV show for love, I

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Speaker 2: really mean this, I was like a full scent. I

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Speaker 2: was like, I am pretty confident I could find love

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Speaker 2: with this girl. From Canada. So I really, I mean

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Speaker 2: I went into the show, you know, a totally naive,

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Speaker 2: kind of like a puppy. I'd never been a part

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Speaker 2: of a fraternity. I don't know how else to make

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Speaker 2: a comparison, but at night one does feel like what

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Speaker 2: it probably feels like Rush week at a frat house.

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Speaker 2: You're just like good Gop. There's just testosterone exploding off

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Speaker 2: of the wall. People are drinking heavily. Maybe that's changed now,

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Speaker 2: but back then, back then, there was Timmity, Crickets Chris

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Speaker 2: like you. You couldn't put a drink down without someone

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Speaker 2: giving you another drink, and part of it was like

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Speaker 2: the best. I mean, it was so fun to get to. Man.

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Speaker 2: I can't believe I'm gonna say this about a reality

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Speaker 2: television show, but I really mean it from my lens.

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Speaker 2: At least at half of those guys Chris were there

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Speaker 2: because they were into Jillion for sure, And definitely half

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Speaker 2: of them were kind of like and some of the

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Speaker 2: guys we've already not mentioned, you know, we're just kind

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Speaker 2: of hag it out at drinking and not that into Jillion.

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Speaker 2: But I at least felt like or the adventures sake

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Speaker 2: of finding love. It was worth it and phenomenal, even

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Speaker 2: though I was kind of the young Frodo Baggins if

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Speaker 2: you don't mind the Lord of the Rings reference, you know,

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Speaker 2: just kind of what the heck is going on. I

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Speaker 2: didn't kiss her until I had no idea strategically, yeah,

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Speaker 2: how to say the game of the bats arette. But

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Speaker 2: I really did connect with her. I really did think

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Speaker 2: she was like a fun person to hang out with.

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Speaker 1: She was awesome, She was a good time in a can.

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Speaker 2: It was the greatest. It was the greatest thing.

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Speaker 1: It was tougher to do much research and homework back then.

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Speaker 1: I mean you could maybe go on the dark web

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Speaker 1: and find something, but there wasn't a whole lot where

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Speaker 1: you could get online, direct message somebody, text somebody and

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Speaker 1: figure out, Okay, what's the game plan, how does this

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Speaker 1: really work? What are producers going to ask me to do?

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Speaker 1: Et cetera. So there was a naivete and an innocence still,

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Speaker 1: which made it beautiful. And I agree. I think a

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Speaker 1: lot of people came on for the action, the adventure

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Speaker 1: of the travel and yeah, maybe I will fall in

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Speaker 1: love with this woman who loves hot dogs.

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Speaker 2: Yes, And I really do mean that, and gosh, look,

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Speaker 2: part of me is a romantic so I just can't

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Speaker 2: help this anyway. I really do like when I watched

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Speaker 2: The Golden Batcher, for example, I really do hope that

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Speaker 2: there are some young kids that go on the show

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Speaker 2: and believe like I used to believe. It sounds like

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Speaker 2: I'm talking about Santa Claus, but that like you know,

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Speaker 2: you can it is just a boy and a girl.

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Speaker 2: It really felt to me at least like it is

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Speaker 2: a person and that's there's gonna be sparks there or not.

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Speaker 2: At least that part of the magic of the show.

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Speaker 2: I hope that's still there.

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Speaker 1: Well, that was always the beauty of the show. When

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Speaker 1: people ask me what the it factor was for that show.

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Speaker 1: There was no catch, which we'll get into bacher Pad

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Speaker 1: and that was the biggest issue with bacher Pad as

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Speaker 1: there became a catch. The thing with the Bachler and

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Speaker 1: Bacherette is, at the end of the day, there is,

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Speaker 1: as you said, we'll go notting Hill, you know, a

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Speaker 1: boy standing in front of a girl or vice versa,

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Speaker 1: depending on the season, and that's it. And you have

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Speaker 1: to I don't care if you're on a beach, if

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Speaker 1: you're on the you know, Zermatt, up in Switzerland or

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Speaker 1: wherever you are. There is this vulnerability in this just

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Speaker 1: fear of oh my gosh, does he like me? Does

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Speaker 1: she like me? And that's beautiful and that's what the

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Speaker 1: at the base of it all is what made the

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Speaker 1: show so great. And then you know, if you had

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Speaker 1: people that were genuine like yourself and like I think

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Speaker 1: the majority of the cast back then who came in

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Speaker 1: with that innocence of naivete it just made for great

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Speaker 1: television because you could really genuinely go on that ride,

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Speaker 1: whereas now I think you have to dissect Okay, who's

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Speaker 1: the f boy, who's here to play this part? Who's

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Speaker 1: here to play this part? You know, we're just so

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Speaker 1: we're so savvy now because we've watched it for twenty

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Speaker 1: four years.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Can I reflect something back to you,

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Speaker 2: Chris Lee. I don't know how much you got to

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Speaker 2: hear of this, but it's been fifteen years. You can

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Speaker 2: you imagine in the circles that I run with, namely

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Speaker 2: people in the Midwest and the East Coast that don't

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Speaker 2: live in LA but you know, it was like those

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Speaker 2: type of people. Hey, Chris, half of the country from

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Speaker 2: my perspective believes that you created the show and that

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Speaker 2: you are you know what I mean, that you are

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Speaker 2: like the face of the brain of it. But but

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Speaker 2: what I wanted to reflect back to you specifically is

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Speaker 2: I always felt like, not only did were you genuinely

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Speaker 2: rooting for the love part of it in a way

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Speaker 2: that had nothing to do with a television program, but

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Speaker 2: the part that I probably speak to more often than

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Speaker 2: not is you were also just such a ef and

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Speaker 2: cool guy like you never seemed to us like a

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Speaker 2: I won't speak for all of the guys me, at

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Speaker 2: least you never. We would in the wings be like, Holy,

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Speaker 2: that's Chris Harrison. Suit is so dope. He looks so

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Speaker 2: good at us, you know, And then when you would

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Speaker 2: hang out with us, you really just instantly were kind

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Speaker 2: of shooting this shit with us. And I've gotten to

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Speaker 2: know some celebrities, you know, with the course of my

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Speaker 2: time now in LA and just the reflection back to you,

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Speaker 2: you were always so cool at being a real the

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Speaker 2: host of one of the biggest reality shows of all time.

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Speaker 2: You just handled it well with a lot of authenticity,

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Speaker 2: and at least again from my len.

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Speaker 1: I took a lot of pride in the fact that

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Speaker 1: I did enjoy getting to know so many people as

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Speaker 1: one of the benefits of the show is especially early on,

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Speaker 1: like Jillian season actually was the first one. Also, she

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Speaker 1: was a lot of first we had thirty people instead

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Speaker 1: of twenty five, and we added five guys on that season,

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Speaker 1: and so it was fun to get to know everybody.

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Speaker 1: There was this camaraderie, there was this paternal spirit where

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Speaker 1: we all got to hang out, and I used to

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Speaker 1: hang out.

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Speaker 2: We lived in a bunk house. Do you remember that.

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Speaker 1: Well, you have to remember back then we hadn't reversed

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Speaker 1: it yet. Jillian still lived in the Bachelor mansion. The

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Speaker 1: guys didn't.

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Speaker 2: Well, you say it out loud now, doesn't it sound

384
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Speaker 2: like crazy?

385
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Speaker 1: It was really dumb. And I forget exactly what season

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Speaker 1: it was where we flipped it. And then the thirty

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Speaker 1: people stayed in the Bachelor Mansion, and then of course

388
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Speaker 1: the Bachelor bacherette would come and go, which makes a

389
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Speaker 1: lot more sense because they can just stay in a hotel,

390
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Speaker 1: a house anywhere else they need to. Finding a house

391
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Speaker 1: for thirty people is not easy, and so that was

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Speaker 1: pretty stupid that we didn't figure that out sooner.

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Speaker 2: You guys built like temporary bousing. Oh yeah, the lot

394
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Speaker 2: like on the mansion lot. My god.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you guys stayed in down what was the uh

396
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Speaker 1: there was so the Bacheler Mansion that we shot at

397
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Speaker 1: down this little hill as you go to Canaan Boulevard,

398
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Speaker 1: which is what goes down. But you know, right in

399
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Speaker 1: front of the house. If you're ever driving between Agora

400
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Speaker 1: Hills and Malibu Canyon, that's what you're very findable, Yes,

401
00:19:27,840 --> 00:19:31,200
Speaker 1: very findable. It's right off Canaan and so right off

402
00:19:31,240 --> 00:19:33,840
Speaker 1: this right off of Canaan, the house you would actually

403
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Speaker 1: see is the photography studio he was. He was a

404
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Speaker 1: big photographer, and so we would use that house as

405
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Speaker 1: the bunk house. That's where you guys stayed.

406
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Speaker 2: Wow, and a thirty second hilarious story from the bunking. Yeah,

407
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Speaker 2: there's a guy. I'm just gonna say his name because

408
00:19:50,600 --> 00:19:54,040
Speaker 2: he's gonna love it. His name was Tanner. Tanner like

409
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Speaker 2: a foot fetish kind of was his thing.

410
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Speaker 1: Yeah.

411
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Speaker 2: Yeah, in Dallas. Uh, we're sleeping in the cows. It

412
00:20:00,880 --> 00:20:03,680
Speaker 2: was you know, June, so it was super hot and

413
00:20:03,760 --> 00:20:06,560
Speaker 2: in the afternoon or we'd done night one. The next

414
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Speaker 2: morning we were complaining the producers were like, you, guys,

415
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Speaker 2: it's like ninety.

416
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Speaker 1: Eight degrees so hot, it's like a sweatshot.

417
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Speaker 2: So you know, they sent some pas and later that

418
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Speaker 2: afternoon I was up in the bunkhouse and the top

419
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Speaker 2: book with Tanner, like getting ready for the Rosery Mooney

420
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Speaker 2: or something, and one of the producers came up and

421
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Speaker 2: was like, guys, we got a ton of fans. They're

422
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Speaker 2: on their way. And Tanner legitimately was like, oh, we

423
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Speaker 2: already got fans. That is awesome. He thought he thought

424
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Speaker 2: they were talking about like fans, legit fans our season

425
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Speaker 2: as we were taping. He was so excited. Then when

426
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Speaker 2: they brought up the plastic fans, he was like, oh,

427
00:20:40,160 --> 00:20:43,840
Speaker 2: that's still awesome. Cool. No girls, though, rat no girl,

428
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Speaker 2: we got fans already. Yeah, that's pretty cool.

429
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Speaker 1: The uh that was also where we started traveling pretty well.

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Speaker 2: Uh, it's true.

431
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Speaker 1: Jillian was Canadian, so we we went up to Canada.

432
00:20:57,240 --> 00:20:59,480
Speaker 1: I know we were up in damph and we went

433
00:20:59,520 --> 00:21:02,280
Speaker 1: through cal and y'all went on the uh the Rocky

434
00:21:02,320 --> 00:21:05,760
Speaker 1: Mountain Express or something like that, and I think we

435
00:21:05,840 --> 00:21:08,080
Speaker 1: kicked somebody off at one of the stops.

436
00:21:08,160 --> 00:21:11,919
Speaker 2: Right, Robbie, do you remember that name and Chris it

437
00:21:11,960 --> 00:21:14,760
Speaker 2: didn't quite air this way with their shots in the

438
00:21:14,800 --> 00:21:18,600
Speaker 2: trailer of the season. I cried that day. Legitimately on

439
00:21:18,640 --> 00:21:20,520
Speaker 2: the he was like, kind of my one of my

440
00:21:20,520 --> 00:21:22,800
Speaker 2: really good buddies. Yeah, and kicked him off. I didn't

441
00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:24,480
Speaker 2: see it coming, so I cried about it.

442
00:21:24,840 --> 00:21:27,640
Speaker 1: You made it to final five, I think, right.

443
00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:30,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, which was again with starting with thirty that's a

444
00:21:31,040 --> 00:21:34,520
Speaker 2: very big deal. That is a big deal of the Yeah,

445
00:21:34,600 --> 00:21:35,160
Speaker 2: so hometown.

446
00:21:35,359 --> 00:21:39,879
Speaker 1: It got down to Kipton Reid, who ended up breaking

447
00:21:39,960 --> 00:21:44,720
Speaker 1: Jillian's heart and leaving in Hawaii. And Ed Swaderski.

448
00:21:45,560 --> 00:21:50,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, who what where did that? He married someone in Chicago? Wait,

449
00:21:50,480 --> 00:21:51,880
Speaker 2: but that also didn't go great.

450
00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:53,840
Speaker 1: I think they were together, they were together for a

451
00:21:53,840 --> 00:21:56,520
Speaker 1: little bit. So what was interesting on that season was

452
00:21:57,480 --> 00:22:00,760
Speaker 1: Jake Pavelka was on your season. Who became Who became

453
00:22:00,840 --> 00:22:03,920
Speaker 1: the Bachelor? Yeah? And it was interesting because I think

454
00:22:03,920 --> 00:22:06,640
Speaker 1: we tried. I honestly think we tried to get Read

455
00:22:06,680 --> 00:22:08,320
Speaker 1: to be the bachelor. He said.

456
00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:08,560
Speaker 2: No.

457
00:22:09,680 --> 00:22:12,800
Speaker 1: That was one of the early first knows we got.

458
00:22:13,440 --> 00:22:15,280
Speaker 1: He didn't like being a part of the show. No.

459
00:22:15,520 --> 00:22:18,120
Speaker 2: He would daily be like, why don't I know what's

460
00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:21,080
Speaker 2: going on? At all times? Like someone when my practice

461
00:22:21,160 --> 00:22:21,720
Speaker 2: that Yeah.

462
00:22:21,520 --> 00:22:25,240
Speaker 1: He he he was oddly savvy for the times. I

463
00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:27,199
Speaker 1: think he was kind of on to the producers of

464
00:22:27,280 --> 00:22:30,760
Speaker 1: like I get that you're not here for me. I'm

465
00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:33,440
Speaker 1: out of here. And so he left and he really

466
00:22:33,520 --> 00:22:36,720
Speaker 1: broke Gillian's heart. That really made her sad, and then

467
00:22:37,200 --> 00:22:39,520
Speaker 1: I think she ended up with Ed though at the end.

468
00:22:39,840 --> 00:22:40,159
Speaker 2: Correct.

469
00:22:40,480 --> 00:22:44,080
Speaker 1: And then so that season ends, Jake Pavelka comes out.

470
00:22:44,160 --> 00:22:47,600
Speaker 1: He's a big hit. Several of the guys go on

471
00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:52,480
Speaker 1: to what we now know as Bachelor Pad Season one

472
00:22:53,040 --> 00:22:55,399
Speaker 1: that was the Bachelor and Bacherette had been so big.

473
00:22:55,760 --> 00:22:59,040
Speaker 1: ABC came to us and said, the summer sucks. That

474
00:22:59,119 --> 00:23:02,119
Speaker 1: is the doldrums of television. There's nothing on. Can you

475
00:23:02,160 --> 00:23:06,000
Speaker 1: guys create something those two weeks before real TV starts

476
00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:08,239
Speaker 1: in the fall, and so we could just promote our

477
00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:10,280
Speaker 1: fall lineup. It doesn't even have to be good, just

478
00:23:10,359 --> 00:23:11,040
Speaker 1: figure it out.

479
00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:13,520
Speaker 2: That was the pitch you guys to next and to.

480
00:23:13,680 --> 00:23:15,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, that was the pitch of like, just put something

481
00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:19,560
Speaker 1: on TV because ABC just needs something. Yeah, in that summer,

482
00:23:20,040 --> 00:23:22,840
Speaker 1: in that summer spot to promote the fall lineup.

483
00:23:22,760 --> 00:23:24,639
Speaker 2: I had no idea. That was the origin. Fascinating to

484
00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:25,200
Speaker 2: keep going to me.

485
00:23:25,240 --> 00:23:28,320
Speaker 1: Now. It wasn't even this great you know idea. They're like, okay,

486
00:23:28,359 --> 00:23:31,440
Speaker 1: let's do a game show, and we're just gonna shoot

487
00:23:31,480 --> 00:23:34,560
Speaker 1: it on the cheap. We shot it at thee at

488
00:23:34,560 --> 00:23:36,919
Speaker 1: the Mansion when it was in the middle of the summer,

489
00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:40,879
Speaker 1: brutally freaking hot. But that's how that came to be,

490
00:23:41,119 --> 00:23:44,040
Speaker 1: was just hey, we need something on ABC. Let's you know,

491
00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:47,840
Speaker 1: they were better than reruns. So we thought, a quarter

492
00:23:47,920 --> 00:23:50,360
Speaker 1: of a million dollars, this will be a game show

493
00:23:50,359 --> 00:23:52,159
Speaker 1: where they're trying to find love, but at the end

494
00:23:52,200 --> 00:23:55,560
Speaker 1: there's going to be a prisoner's dilemma where there's money

495
00:23:55,560 --> 00:23:56,280
Speaker 1: on the line.

496
00:23:56,880 --> 00:23:59,520
Speaker 2: So Survivor type of game mechanics.

497
00:23:59,600 --> 00:24:01,480
Speaker 1: Survive had been on the air, you know, a look

498
00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:04,800
Speaker 1: before us and I'm trying to take him by then,

499
00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:06,439
Speaker 1: Amazing Race was probably on.

500
00:24:07,080 --> 00:24:11,000
Speaker 2: That's true, and you had real world road rules challenges

501
00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:13,359
Speaker 2: as well, at least in the zeitgeist that you guys

502
00:24:13,359 --> 00:24:16,200
Speaker 2: were stealing some kind of game show concepts from.

503
00:24:16,240 --> 00:24:18,080
Speaker 1: And Bachelor Pad one was kind of weird. We had

504
00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:20,480
Speaker 1: to hire. They're like, well, this is a game show now,

505
00:24:20,520 --> 00:24:23,680
Speaker 1: So we brought on standards and practices and we brought

506
00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:26,399
Speaker 1: on this different producer. I forget his name, but he

507
00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:29,399
Speaker 1: was more No, he was from Red Road Rules, I

508
00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:32,000
Speaker 1: think maybe. And it was one of those guys though,

509
00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:33,600
Speaker 1: And I'm glad I'm not going to say his name

510
00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:36,360
Speaker 1: because it turned out he was not very good at

511
00:24:36,359 --> 00:24:39,360
Speaker 1: what he does and so, but he was there because

512
00:24:39,440 --> 00:24:41,560
Speaker 1: he had done game shows before and we didn't do

513
00:24:41,720 --> 00:24:44,120
Speaker 1: game So he's like, I'm gonna help you guys, because

514
00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:46,840
Speaker 1: there's certain rules you have to follow because there's a

515
00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:48,480
Speaker 1: quarter of a million dollars on the line.

516
00:24:49,040 --> 00:24:52,120
Speaker 2: Chris, this is what I wanted. I should have talked

517
00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:54,080
Speaker 2: to this guy the thing that I text you about

518
00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:56,879
Speaker 2: about Bachelor Pad three by the way ahead, but this

519
00:24:57,440 --> 00:25:00,800
Speaker 2: he You're right, he probably either got got fired got

520
00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:04,520
Speaker 2: and it might have been because of what the thing

521
00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:05,280
Speaker 2: I text you about.

522
00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:08,520
Speaker 1: Well, he got fired on Bachelor Pad one, and so

523
00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:10,760
Speaker 1: Bachelor by the time we came in bacher Pad two,

524
00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:13,080
Speaker 1: the producers are like, ah, we can just do this ourselves.

525
00:25:13,359 --> 00:25:15,040
Speaker 1: We're just gonna run this game show and do it

526
00:25:15,080 --> 00:25:18,479
Speaker 1: ourselves and try and create more love and more couples

527
00:25:18,560 --> 00:25:22,640
Speaker 1: or whatever. So you come in on season two right

528
00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:23,679
Speaker 1: of bacher Pad.

529
00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:27,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, So the machine was a little bit more well oiled.

530
00:25:28,240 --> 00:25:31,080
Speaker 2: From my perspective, it seemed like the contest were a

531
00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:31,639
Speaker 2: little bigger.

532
00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:34,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, Bacheler Pad one was a little messy. We're still

533
00:25:34,040 --> 00:25:36,000
Speaker 1: trying to figure it out, throwing it against the wall

534
00:25:36,040 --> 00:25:39,080
Speaker 1: to see what stuck. Bachelor Pad two were like, Look,

535
00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:41,760
Speaker 1: we got to lean back into what we are, which

536
00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:44,960
Speaker 1: is a reality show. It's about love, it's about breakups,

537
00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:48,640
Speaker 1: it's about all that. But the problem was, to your point,

538
00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:50,920
Speaker 1: there was still a quarter of a million dollars on

539
00:25:50,960 --> 00:25:57,359
Speaker 1: the line and you game. You and Holly Durst won

540
00:25:57,440 --> 00:26:01,080
Speaker 1: that season. Yeah, And the whole premise, just to catch

541
00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:03,320
Speaker 1: people up, is you would kind of couple up towards

542
00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:05,440
Speaker 1: the end of the show. You would have to find

543
00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:08,479
Speaker 1: a partner, and that partner and you would go to

544
00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:12,800
Speaker 1: the end and win challenges or lose challenges, and that

545
00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:16,480
Speaker 1: at the end decide between the two of you, would

546
00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:19,240
Speaker 1: you keep the two hundred fifty thousand, would you split

547
00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:21,920
Speaker 1: the two hundred fifty thousand, And depending on what your

548
00:26:21,920 --> 00:26:24,800
Speaker 1: partner said, that determined where the money went. So I

549
00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:27,879
Speaker 1: think so the final four was Michelle, Money and Graham.

550
00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:32,600
Speaker 1: But yes, yeah, good who I honestly I was shipping them.

551
00:26:32,640 --> 00:26:34,200
Speaker 1: I wanted them to be a couple so bad.

552
00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:36,639
Speaker 2: Oh, I thought you meant shipping them to win, and

553
00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:37,640
Speaker 2: I was like, well, no, no.

554
00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:39,320
Speaker 1: I wanted them to be a couple because I love

555
00:26:39,359 --> 00:26:42,359
Speaker 1: Michelle Money and I love Graham very much. I was like,

556
00:26:42,640 --> 00:26:43,800
Speaker 1: those two would be great together.

557
00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:47,000
Speaker 2: And on the show it seemed like they're honestly like

558
00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:49,800
Speaker 2: they really were, yeah, working out, and then it kind

559
00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:51,320
Speaker 2: of quickly fizzled right after the show.

560
00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:53,840
Speaker 1: In and now flash forward, Michelle Money is married to

561
00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:56,000
Speaker 1: the President's Cup Captain Mike Weir.

562
00:26:56,680 --> 00:26:58,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know. It's one of my favorite things when

563
00:26:58,440 --> 00:27:00,119
Speaker 2: I'm watching the PGA tour to be like, that's it's

564
00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:01,480
Speaker 2: so cool that Michelle's married to that guy.

565
00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:03,760
Speaker 1: So what do you remember then about Bachelor Pad?

566
00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:09,080
Speaker 2: A almost completely different experience, i'd say than the rat right,

567
00:27:09,240 --> 00:27:13,359
Speaker 2: Like I guess a, I don't know ilse to say this.

568
00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:15,639
Speaker 2: And even though it was way less back then, there

569
00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:18,120
Speaker 2: was fifteen minutes of fame that came after the bats

570
00:27:18,119 --> 00:27:20,280
Speaker 2: Arette And remember I wasn't on the first season of

571
00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:24,680
Speaker 2: Batser Pad and then the second season. You know, A, geez,

572
00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:28,040
Speaker 2: this is dating my all going really back into the vault.

573
00:27:28,040 --> 00:27:30,280
Speaker 2: But I had a music career at that point that

574
00:27:30,520 --> 00:27:33,200
Speaker 2: I was kind of touring the country. It was called

575
00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:35,800
Speaker 2: the Love Like This Tour, and I had a relationship.

576
00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:39,120
Speaker 2: I was with Holly. I was engaged before batser Pad

577
00:27:39,160 --> 00:27:42,560
Speaker 2: two aired, and then we broke up, and then they

578
00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:45,080
Speaker 2: asked us both to be on this show. So, my god,

579
00:27:45,119 --> 00:27:47,280
Speaker 2: if I had set the table well enough, you can

580
00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:50,040
Speaker 2: imagine going into batser Pad two. How my frame of

581
00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:52,520
Speaker 2: reference for what it was like batstt was like, let's

582
00:27:52,560 --> 00:27:55,200
Speaker 2: fall in love and go on adventures.

583
00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:55,760
Speaker 1: With my ex fiance.

584
00:27:56,840 --> 00:28:01,240
Speaker 2: Yeah. Batser Pad two was like, oh god, okay one.

585
00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:04,520
Speaker 2: I honestly wanted to, you know, just make it far

586
00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:07,440
Speaker 2: on the show for the sake more fifteen minutes of fame.

587
00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:09,919
Speaker 2: That sounds like I just sold my soul out, but

588
00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:11,879
Speaker 2: you know, like I was aware you're also paying.

589
00:28:11,960 --> 00:28:13,920
Speaker 1: I think we paid you guys a little snipen now

590
00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:16,400
Speaker 1: be on bacher Pad, Yes, and winning two.

591
00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:18,960
Speaker 2: And fifty grand like thumbs up. And you know, I'm

592
00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:21,320
Speaker 2: a game designer, actually, Chris, so I'm competitive. So I

593
00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:23,240
Speaker 2: was thinking about meta game how to win this son

594
00:28:23,280 --> 00:28:26,920
Speaker 2: of movie like I wanted to do it and more specifically,

595
00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:28,679
Speaker 2: and this is all the stuff that aired on the

596
00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:31,000
Speaker 2: season if you watch it, and if not, hold on

597
00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:36,119
Speaker 2: to something. Uh, Holly and I's relationship was rather unresolved,

598
00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:38,400
Speaker 2: if I'm being honest. You know, we broke up out

599
00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:41,320
Speaker 2: two weeks our engagement. We were engaged to be married

600
00:28:41,320 --> 00:28:45,200
Speaker 2: two weeks before we stepped into the mansion, and you know,

601
00:28:45,640 --> 00:28:49,280
Speaker 2: somewhat naively, both of us at twenty six, twenty seven.

602
00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:51,120
Speaker 2: At that time, I think we were like, make ahead

603
00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:54,479
Speaker 2: of it, yea, and that won't matter, but one two

604
00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:56,840
Speaker 2: skip if you Within three days, I was back in

605
00:28:56,840 --> 00:28:58,960
Speaker 2: love with her basically completely, you know what I mean.

606
00:28:59,080 --> 00:29:03,360
Speaker 2: And she had found another man named Blake, who was

607
00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:06,640
Speaker 2: a dentist who was the most handsome guy probably ever right,

608
00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:11,160
Speaker 2: and they hit it off right away. And still, you know, honestly,

609
00:29:12,040 --> 00:29:15,880
Speaker 2: we'll give Holly credit for this. She also, genuinely, I think,

610
00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:19,240
Speaker 2: felt confused about me too, like we had just broken up,

611
00:29:19,280 --> 00:29:21,640
Speaker 2: and so we kissed a few times and went on

612
00:29:21,680 --> 00:29:23,360
Speaker 2: a few dates kind of in the first half of

613
00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:25,600
Speaker 2: the show and then the second half of the show.

614
00:29:25,640 --> 00:29:27,560
Speaker 2: Not only did she continue to fall in love with

615
00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:32,640
Speaker 2: dentist Blake, they got engaged before the finale of that

616
00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:36,280
Speaker 2: Dad when Holly and I we continue to win challenges,

617
00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:40,080
Speaker 2: we remained a couple. And then when it all aired, Chris,

618
00:29:40,120 --> 00:29:42,640
Speaker 2: can you take me by like you get me back

619
00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:46,719
Speaker 2: to that studio? What that felt like? Everyone, especially you,

620
00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:48,520
Speaker 2: like in somebodys I was even mad at you, Chris.

621
00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:52,160
Speaker 2: I was like, everyone knew that Blake Holly got engaged

622
00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:56,560
Speaker 2: off camera. Guess who didn't know? You? I didn't know,

623
00:29:56,800 --> 00:29:58,800
Speaker 2: which is how I'm smiling about it, because it's the

624
00:29:58,840 --> 00:29:59,520
Speaker 2: best television.

625
00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:01,280
Speaker 1: Well, that's the thing is, I would say, you just

626
00:30:01,280 --> 00:30:02,880
Speaker 1: took the words of your mouth. It was the best

627
00:30:02,880 --> 00:30:05,760
Speaker 1: of times. It was the worst of times because it

628
00:30:05,840 --> 00:30:08,520
Speaker 1: was the best of times, and that you can't, gosh,

629
00:30:08,560 --> 00:30:12,240
Speaker 1: it's so impossible to create TV that good. I mean,

630
00:30:12,280 --> 00:30:14,480
Speaker 1: because it was so genuine. And that's the difference is

631
00:30:14,520 --> 00:30:16,880
Speaker 1: now what you see a lot of times on a

632
00:30:16,880 --> 00:30:21,280
Speaker 1: lot of shows is so manufactured. It's so heavy handedly produced.

633
00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:26,760
Speaker 1: And while we did produce somewhat around you, guys, we

634
00:30:26,800 --> 00:30:31,480
Speaker 1: are producing around you. Y'all were providing us that guttural

635
00:30:31,600 --> 00:30:35,800
Speaker 1: feeling of love and heartbreak and all those things. And

636
00:30:35,880 --> 00:30:39,320
Speaker 1: you know, the dastardly deed was keeping it from you

637
00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:42,640
Speaker 1: and surprising you with it on the show. But what

638
00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:45,040
Speaker 1: had happened was real. She had fallen in love with

639
00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:47,880
Speaker 1: Blake and vice versa, and they really are this couple

640
00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:49,720
Speaker 1: and they really did get married together. Yeah, that's what

641
00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:51,720
Speaker 1: I mean. They are married and they are together, and

642
00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:56,960
Speaker 1: they have a beautiful family. They have great teeth. And

643
00:30:57,000 --> 00:30:59,480
Speaker 1: then there was Michael and I and you didn't give

644
00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:03,040
Speaker 1: yourself an no credit that America had really fallen in

645
00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:06,840
Speaker 1: love with you, this breakdance instructor that we had gotten

646
00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:10,920
Speaker 1: to know on Jillian season. That was your title. You

647
00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:14,160
Speaker 1: had gotten around for that year and really become a

648
00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:17,800
Speaker 1: fan favorite. And people were really upset at Holly for

649
00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:21,160
Speaker 1: falling in love with Blake because we love Michael. You know,

650
00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:27,400
Speaker 1: we're team Stagliano. It was really this amazing confluence of

651
00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:30,800
Speaker 1: things that happened naturally, and then we took advantage of it.

652
00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:31,280
Speaker 1: For sure.

653
00:31:32,120 --> 00:31:36,400
Speaker 2: I want to go back thirty seconds. There was something

654
00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:43,000
Speaker 2: to Chris about at the end of the season. At

655
00:31:43,040 --> 00:31:46,720
Speaker 2: the finale when it all went down and Holley and

656
00:31:46,760 --> 00:31:49,280
Speaker 2: I won, we chose to split the money or we

657
00:31:49,320 --> 00:31:51,400
Speaker 2: shared the money. The two hudred and fifty, so at

658
00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:52,560
Speaker 2: least my wallet got happy.

659
00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:54,480
Speaker 1: I lost the girl, but you got one hundred and

660
00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:55,480
Speaker 1: twenty five thousand dollars.

661
00:31:55,760 --> 00:31:57,560
Speaker 2: Yes, but wait, you don't even know this. We split

662
00:31:57,600 --> 00:31:59,880
Speaker 2: the money with Graham and Michelle. We literally wrote them

663
00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:01,520
Speaker 2: that was night two.

664
00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:04,360
Speaker 1: You know what. I forgot that that happened.

665
00:32:04,880 --> 00:32:06,840
Speaker 2: I know it was so illegal, and we did it

666
00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:09,440
Speaker 2: anyway like time t We couldn't. You weren't allowed to

667
00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:11,440
Speaker 2: do that, like VI, the VI the laws of that.

668
00:32:11,520 --> 00:32:14,240
Speaker 2: You couldn't agree, but we totally anyway.

669
00:32:13,920 --> 00:32:16,760
Speaker 1: Anyway anyway did wait, did producers know that or did

670
00:32:16,800 --> 00:32:18,760
Speaker 1: Michelle just Michelle? Oh, Graham knew that.

671
00:32:18,800 --> 00:32:22,360
Speaker 2: No, producers didn't know that. We even and then all

672
00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:25,480
Speaker 2: four of us sent twenty five hundred dollars to Ella.

673
00:32:25,520 --> 00:32:27,760
Speaker 2: Do you remember her? She was the single mom? Yes,

674
00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:30,800
Speaker 2: bro this Yeah, they get a house and we all

675
00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:33,920
Speaker 2: sent her house. I know. And it's part of what

676
00:32:33,960 --> 00:32:36,600
Speaker 2: I mean too about like actually this will segue nicely

677
00:32:36,600 --> 00:32:38,959
Speaker 2: into what I was going to get to Chris. I

678
00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:42,880
Speaker 2: at least felt like I truly made friends kind of

679
00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:45,120
Speaker 2: with the I mean honestly some of the crew too,

680
00:32:45,160 --> 00:32:47,760
Speaker 2: Like the camera guys was hilarious, the light of guys,

681
00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:50,160
Speaker 2: the sow guys, all those guys were so fun so

682
00:32:50,480 --> 00:32:53,280
Speaker 2: and the producers and the contestants. Obviously, it really did

683
00:32:53,360 --> 00:32:56,200
Speaker 2: kind of feel like, man, I don't know, we all

684
00:32:56,200 --> 00:32:58,960
Speaker 2: went through this big thing together, and part of what

685
00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:05,360
Speaker 2: the blind side of everyone keeping the engagement from me

686
00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:08,880
Speaker 2: felt like real time, like I don't alwa to subscribe

687
00:33:08,920 --> 00:33:13,200
Speaker 2: it is it was I was almost like, wait, so

688
00:33:13,360 --> 00:33:16,200
Speaker 2: are these people my friends or not? Do you know

689
00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:16,600
Speaker 2: what I mean?

690
00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:19,400
Speaker 1: Like Alan made you question everything specifically.

691
00:33:19,520 --> 00:33:22,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, and look, fifteen years later, you can obviously I'll

692
00:33:22,600 --> 00:33:24,640
Speaker 2: look back and just say, everyone's just doing their job

693
00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:27,640
Speaker 2: and trying to get a good television show. And Mike,

694
00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:30,080
Speaker 2: I was kind of a puppy walking into things, not

695
00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:33,600
Speaker 2: exactly just leading with my heart. So it's all love

696
00:33:33,640 --> 00:33:36,480
Speaker 2: for everyone, but I do want to it is fun,

697
00:33:36,520 --> 00:33:40,440
Speaker 2: at least to rehash out loud with you fifteen years later,

698
00:33:40,520 --> 00:33:45,480
Speaker 2: the experience of being duped in a way that made man,

699
00:33:46,080 --> 00:33:49,600
Speaker 2: at least, for whatever it's worth, phenomenal television.

700
00:34:01,760 --> 00:34:04,280
Speaker 1: I mean, you think about what the what we just encapsulated.

701
00:34:04,360 --> 00:34:06,840
Speaker 1: That's that was the beauty of our show. We had

702
00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:08,880
Speaker 1: a couple that had fallen in love. They met on

703
00:34:08,920 --> 00:34:11,879
Speaker 1: our show, they got engaged, they broke up two weeks later.

704
00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:14,839
Speaker 1: We put them in a house together in again, and

705
00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:16,920
Speaker 1: then they kind of start dating again.

706
00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:19,520
Speaker 2: And we're and we're partners, and yeah.

707
00:34:19,320 --> 00:34:21,879
Speaker 1: Your partner's in the game and it's on again, off again,

708
00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:24,680
Speaker 1: and she falls in love with another contestant and they

709
00:34:24,680 --> 00:34:28,040
Speaker 1: get engaged and it all comes to be at the

710
00:34:28,040 --> 00:34:28,920
Speaker 1: grand finale.

711
00:34:29,040 --> 00:34:30,600
Speaker 2: I mean it's too much. You couldn't.

712
00:34:30,640 --> 00:34:32,799
Speaker 1: Yeah, you like, if I wrote that now, you'd be like,

713
00:34:32,840 --> 00:34:34,919
Speaker 1: come on, dude, this You've gone a bridge too far.

714
00:34:35,120 --> 00:34:38,760
Speaker 1: That's stupid. Yeah, And instead we just call it Michael's life.

715
00:34:39,520 --> 00:34:42,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I'm just alone living in an underpass in

716
00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:45,880
Speaker 2: the valley now. No, that I've recovered fantasticly.

717
00:34:46,160 --> 00:34:49,600
Speaker 1: Before we get to your life, you actually you you

718
00:34:49,719 --> 00:34:52,520
Speaker 1: really became so popular and honestly, I hate to say it,

719
00:34:52,560 --> 00:34:54,840
Speaker 1: because you were the lovable loser in that one and

720
00:34:54,920 --> 00:34:58,000
Speaker 1: that relationship. The funny thing is, you won Bachelor Pad,

721
00:34:58,640 --> 00:35:02,319
Speaker 1: but people saw you lose in love, so we talked

722
00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:04,840
Speaker 1: about you as the bachelor. You didn't become the bachelor,

723
00:35:04,880 --> 00:35:08,000
Speaker 1: but we wanted you back on Bachelor Pad again because

724
00:35:08,040 --> 00:35:11,399
Speaker 1: everyone adored you so much. So now you come back

725
00:35:11,440 --> 00:35:16,400
Speaker 1: on Bachelor Pad three. Very few contestants have been a

726
00:35:16,440 --> 00:35:19,440
Speaker 1: part of as many shows as you have. So now

727
00:35:19,480 --> 00:35:22,879
Speaker 1: you're back for a third season. Third year, you're twenty seven,

728
00:35:22,920 --> 00:35:23,839
Speaker 1: twenty eight years old.

729
00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:26,160
Speaker 2: Do you remember the twist for the third season? It

730
00:35:26,200 --> 00:35:30,520
Speaker 2: was I think brilliant, well also a train wreck, which

731
00:35:30,560 --> 00:35:31,760
Speaker 2: is its own type of brilliance.

732
00:35:32,040 --> 00:35:33,319
Speaker 1: Which twist was this.

733
00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:37,840
Speaker 2: It wasn't batter Pad one and two was nine guys

734
00:35:37,880 --> 00:35:40,600
Speaker 2: and nine girls that were on the show. Batcher Pad

735
00:35:40,680 --> 00:35:45,200
Speaker 2: three was half just fans people that had not been

736
00:35:45,280 --> 00:35:49,239
Speaker 2: on the show, yes, and half people that had been.

737
00:35:49,280 --> 00:35:50,600
Speaker 2: So it was kind of like putting a hat on

738
00:35:50,640 --> 00:35:50,919
Speaker 2: a hat.

739
00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:55,400
Speaker 1: Do you know that it was a terrible idea, You go,

740
00:35:55,760 --> 00:35:59,240
Speaker 1: I'll be honest, until you just reminded me. I forgot

741
00:35:59,280 --> 00:36:00,800
Speaker 1: we invited on the show.

742
00:36:01,320 --> 00:36:04,160
Speaker 2: It was wild. It was the dynamic, is you know.

743
00:36:05,080 --> 00:36:08,919
Speaker 2: I remember kind of the cast members being like, oh,

744
00:36:09,160 --> 00:36:13,279
Speaker 2: so we're the celebrities obviously now of the show, which

745
00:36:13,360 --> 00:36:15,200
Speaker 2: is just you know, and then the fans were like,

746
00:36:15,400 --> 00:36:18,319
Speaker 2: not really, you're all kind of literally know what knows

747
00:36:18,320 --> 00:36:21,759
Speaker 2: who you want? It tried to be famous and then

748
00:36:21,800 --> 00:36:24,720
Speaker 2: the challenges you know against you told.

749
00:36:24,560 --> 00:36:26,440
Speaker 1: Me, I do remember. There was kind of a cool,

750
00:36:27,160 --> 00:36:30,440
Speaker 1: you know, kind of a cool girls high school lunch

751
00:36:30,520 --> 00:36:34,480
Speaker 1: room feel to the show of cast versus non cast

752
00:36:34,560 --> 00:36:35,000
Speaker 1: one hundred.

753
00:36:35,320 --> 00:36:36,920
Speaker 2: Do you remember who led the charge? Do you remember

754
00:36:36,920 --> 00:36:37,319
Speaker 2: her name?

755
00:36:37,680 --> 00:36:37,759
Speaker 1: No?

756
00:36:38,440 --> 00:36:41,799
Speaker 2: Rose, Erica Rose Mean Girls, Mean Girls fantastically.

757
00:36:42,080 --> 00:36:44,480
Speaker 1: And by the way, the great thing about that was

758
00:36:45,120 --> 00:36:47,200
Speaker 1: every now and then, and I don't remember them well

759
00:36:47,320 --> 00:36:50,399
Speaker 1: enough now, but one one of them became cool enough

760
00:36:50,400 --> 00:36:53,560
Speaker 1: to kind of make the leap to the cast side.

761
00:36:53,840 --> 00:36:54,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, quite successfully.

762
00:36:54,880 --> 00:36:57,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, and they were like, Okay, you're cool, you're different,

763
00:36:58,160 --> 00:36:59,920
Speaker 1: but they're still they're still losers.

764
00:37:00,680 --> 00:37:03,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was. It was the shallowest I think the

765
00:37:03,640 --> 00:37:04,160
Speaker 2: show got.

766
00:37:04,719 --> 00:37:07,000
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, on a lot of that was there were

767
00:37:07,040 --> 00:37:09,680
Speaker 1: some bad challenges that season. There was a lot of

768
00:37:09,680 --> 00:37:10,680
Speaker 1: bad stuff that season.

769
00:37:11,320 --> 00:37:15,279
Speaker 2: Yes, there was a you had to hold trays of

770
00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:18,319
Speaker 2: teacups as a race because they were supposed to do

771
00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:21,520
Speaker 2: the kissing challenge, but someone got hurpies. That is an

772
00:37:21,560 --> 00:37:24,359
Speaker 2: actual story. So they were like, we can't medically do it,

773
00:37:24,840 --> 00:37:27,080
Speaker 2: So what's our game that we need.

774
00:37:26,880 --> 00:37:29,560
Speaker 1: To do where we won't pass around an std.

775
00:37:32,480 --> 00:37:33,480
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh.

776
00:37:33,960 --> 00:37:36,239
Speaker 1: In that that season, so that had kind of a

777
00:37:36,280 --> 00:37:40,080
Speaker 1: controversial ending. You probably remember it different than I do.

778
00:37:40,600 --> 00:37:44,200
Speaker 1: Uh yeah, well, I just remember obviously there. You know,

779
00:37:44,400 --> 00:37:47,480
Speaker 1: that season I think was heavily produced, I felt, and

780
00:37:47,560 --> 00:37:49,439
Speaker 1: that was the last season of bacher Pad we did

781
00:37:49,440 --> 00:37:52,440
Speaker 1: before we just went to Bachelor in Paradise because what

782
00:37:52,520 --> 00:37:58,080
Speaker 1: we learned was inherently the show was about money and

783
00:37:58,120 --> 00:38:01,120
Speaker 1: the Bachelor and Bacherette's never been about money, and so

784
00:38:01,640 --> 00:38:04,560
Speaker 1: we wanted to make it like our producing instincts were,

785
00:38:04,640 --> 00:38:07,560
Speaker 1: let's make it about love. But there was this game show,

786
00:38:07,640 --> 00:38:11,040
Speaker 1: so you had to service that, and so there was

787
00:38:11,080 --> 00:38:14,560
Speaker 1: a there was a battle going on between do we

788
00:38:14,600 --> 00:38:16,160
Speaker 1: care about the game show? And I was like, well,

789
00:38:16,160 --> 00:38:19,040
Speaker 1: there's a quarter million dollars you have to but I

790
00:38:19,080 --> 00:38:20,799
Speaker 1: don't know if we did a good enough job. And

791
00:38:20,960 --> 00:38:22,520
Speaker 1: I think according to you, we did not do a

792
00:38:22,640 --> 00:38:25,200
Speaker 1: very fair job of playing the game.

793
00:38:25,920 --> 00:38:30,319
Speaker 2: For the third season. Yeah, well mine, my gripe is

794
00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:32,720
Speaker 2: on a different level, Like it's on a very nerdy

795
00:38:32,760 --> 00:38:35,920
Speaker 2: game mechanic level, and I can say it pretty concisely.

796
00:38:36,040 --> 00:38:41,280
Speaker 2: The the game is dependent on a community votings voting

797
00:38:41,320 --> 00:38:44,920
Speaker 2: system where people go in and bloat. They vote blindly,

798
00:38:45,000 --> 00:38:46,799
Speaker 2: so no one else gets to see the person that

799
00:38:46,840 --> 00:38:47,880
Speaker 2: they vote right.

800
00:38:47,760 --> 00:38:51,160
Speaker 1: To kick off the island, just like Survivor, Just like Survivor.

801
00:38:51,520 --> 00:38:53,840
Speaker 1: Not that we ripped off Survivor completely.

802
00:38:53,880 --> 00:38:55,960
Speaker 2: Not completely legally, but just.

803
00:38:57,200 --> 00:38:59,279
Speaker 1: I quit saying the tribe is spoken at least.

804
00:38:59,800 --> 00:39:04,440
Speaker 2: Yeah. In the third season, for some reason, some producer

805
00:39:04,680 --> 00:39:09,400
Speaker 2: allowed Erica Rose to go into the voting room with

806
00:39:09,560 --> 00:39:13,160
Speaker 2: I think Chris Bukowski, which breaks the mechanics of the

807
00:39:13,200 --> 00:39:18,000
Speaker 2: game because then Chris showed Erica that he wasn't voting

808
00:39:18,040 --> 00:39:21,080
Speaker 2: for her, which is the lie that I told her

809
00:39:21,160 --> 00:39:23,200
Speaker 2: because Chris was part of my alliance and that's what

810
00:39:23,239 --> 00:39:24,879
Speaker 2: I was trying to set up. So when Erica came

811
00:39:24,960 --> 00:39:27,720
Speaker 2: to me and said, well, I thow that Chris didn't

812
00:39:27,760 --> 00:39:29,239
Speaker 2: vote me off, I was.

813
00:39:29,160 --> 00:39:30,719
Speaker 1: Like, how did you see that?

814
00:39:30,760 --> 00:39:33,160
Speaker 2: He saw it, and he was like, she said, well,

815
00:39:33,160 --> 00:39:35,320
Speaker 2: they let me go with the voting group. And again

816
00:39:35,480 --> 00:39:37,440
Speaker 2: I don't know. I couldn't. I don't remember where you were,

817
00:39:37,560 --> 00:39:39,239
Speaker 2: if you were like in the wings or watching your by,

818
00:39:39,480 --> 00:39:41,760
Speaker 2: but I literally put my hand up like on camera.

819
00:39:41,800 --> 00:39:43,359
Speaker 2: It didn't air, but in front of the CA I

820
00:39:43,440 --> 00:39:46,160
Speaker 2: was like, hey, I'm really confused. Eric is saying that

821
00:39:46,200 --> 00:39:50,680
Speaker 2: she went into the voting room. That's obviously she wasn't

822
00:39:50,680 --> 00:39:52,920
Speaker 2: allowed to do that, right, And then a Lawn was like,

823
00:39:53,000 --> 00:39:54,839
Speaker 2: you know you see them go like hit up, yeah,

824
00:39:56,880 --> 00:39:59,239
Speaker 2: And then they called like lawyers. They woke some guy up,

825
00:39:59,239 --> 00:40:01,120
Speaker 2: but like two in the morning, they drove down, they

826
00:40:01,160 --> 00:40:03,520
Speaker 2: stopped filming, and then they're like, okay, okay, okay, So

827
00:40:03,560 --> 00:40:06,240
Speaker 2: there's been Do you remember any of this, Chris, No, No,

828
00:40:06,760 --> 00:40:07,640
Speaker 2: it's fascinating.

829
00:40:07,800 --> 00:40:10,120
Speaker 1: So I was not involved in any of this or

830
00:40:10,160 --> 00:40:11,080
Speaker 1: the conversations.

831
00:40:11,280 --> 00:40:13,920
Speaker 2: Well, as you can probably imagine, a they've got rules

832
00:40:13,960 --> 00:40:16,440
Speaker 2: in place so that contestants can't get aft out.

833
00:40:16,280 --> 00:40:18,360
Speaker 1: Of will you have standards and practices when you do

834
00:40:18,440 --> 00:40:21,480
Speaker 1: a game show. It's different than you know, like Survivor

835
00:40:21,560 --> 00:40:24,560
Speaker 1: is a game show, Dancing with the Stars, it's a game,

836
00:40:24,719 --> 00:40:26,960
Speaker 1: and so there's a game element. So you have lawyers

837
00:40:26,960 --> 00:40:29,760
Speaker 1: that are just standards and practices. They're there to watch

838
00:40:29,800 --> 00:40:32,400
Speaker 1: the game and you have to adhere to those rules.

839
00:40:32,760 --> 00:40:37,359
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, And this is an example of not The

840
00:40:37,440 --> 00:40:39,719
Speaker 2: one specific line in the contract that I read was

841
00:40:39,719 --> 00:40:44,000
Speaker 2: like producers can't directly interfere with the results of voting right,

842
00:40:44,560 --> 00:40:49,120
Speaker 2: And Erica is like, Allah, oh this I can't. Five

843
00:40:49,160 --> 00:40:51,279
Speaker 2: years ago, no, ten years ago, I couldn't say anything.

844
00:40:51,320 --> 00:40:52,719
Speaker 2: I think I get arrested, But now I could just

845
00:40:52,760 --> 00:40:55,880
Speaker 2: say it's still so good. Erica Rose was like, Allah,

846
00:40:56,520 --> 00:40:59,440
Speaker 2: just told me to go into the room with Chris.

847
00:40:59,480 --> 00:41:01,439
Speaker 2: I don't And I was like, what do you mean

848
00:41:01,480 --> 00:41:03,960
Speaker 2: Alan told you to do that? Like, he can't tell

849
00:41:04,000 --> 00:41:06,120
Speaker 2: you to do that because that would give you knowledge

850
00:41:06,239 --> 00:41:09,080
Speaker 2: that other contestants don't have, which is the enormous event

851
00:41:09,080 --> 00:41:12,239
Speaker 2: that's direct leader. So again they brought the lawyers out.

852
00:41:12,280 --> 00:41:14,280
Speaker 2: I really did. I feel like I made a good

853
00:41:14,400 --> 00:41:17,239
Speaker 2: enough fuss that I was like, I feel like this

854
00:41:17,320 --> 00:41:18,360
Speaker 2: is very illegal.

855
00:41:18,520 --> 00:41:20,120
Speaker 1: Yes, we got to rectify that.

856
00:41:20,520 --> 00:41:24,080
Speaker 2: So the head lawyer was like, Michael, just shut up,

857
00:41:24,200 --> 00:41:25,760
Speaker 2: and I was like, all right.

858
00:41:25,680 --> 00:41:26,720
Speaker 1: Okay, that's our answer.

859
00:41:27,800 --> 00:41:29,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know, like honestly, kind of the game

860
00:41:30,120 --> 00:41:32,759
Speaker 2: was over. And so if you watch the batch that

861
00:41:32,960 --> 00:41:35,640
Speaker 2: three Rose ceremony, would I get kicked off? You can

862
00:41:35,680 --> 00:41:37,680
Speaker 2: kind of see it on everyone's face. Everyone's kind of like,

863
00:41:38,160 --> 00:41:41,759
Speaker 2: so what is this all legal? Or like what is

864
00:41:41,800 --> 00:41:44,239
Speaker 2: Michael going home? Like what do we It was so

865
00:41:44,360 --> 00:41:48,200
Speaker 2: uncomfortable and bizarre and yeah, then Rachel was my partner

866
00:41:48,200 --> 00:41:50,200
Speaker 2: and she was like, so you're going home and but

867
00:41:50,280 --> 00:41:51,839
Speaker 2: aren't we in love? And I was like I don't

868
00:41:51,880 --> 00:41:53,160
Speaker 2: think so. And now I'm.

869
00:41:53,080 --> 00:41:57,719
Speaker 1: Leaving, like we're definitely not in love now sideways. Yeah,

870
00:41:57,719 --> 00:41:59,560
Speaker 1: it was such an of course, it ended with the

871
00:41:59,560 --> 00:42:03,000
Speaker 1: prisoners dilemma where the winner he kept it himself.

872
00:42:03,280 --> 00:42:07,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, Nick, ye baller move and Rachel, my partner, went

873
00:42:07,840 --> 00:42:11,640
Speaker 2: on to win. And then Nick capped the money for himself.

874
00:42:11,640 --> 00:42:13,560
Speaker 1: Or over and yeah, and I think they had an

875
00:42:13,600 --> 00:42:16,799
Speaker 1: agreement and then he yeah, good again, good TV. But

876
00:42:16,920 --> 00:42:19,720
Speaker 1: I think you know that inherently where we figured out, Okay,

877
00:42:20,320 --> 00:42:22,040
Speaker 1: it's we got to stop. We got to stop the

878
00:42:22,080 --> 00:42:24,480
Speaker 1: game show element. Let's just create Bachelor in Paradise. So

879
00:42:24,520 --> 00:42:27,000
Speaker 1: we took a summer off and then came back with Paradise.

880
00:42:27,120 --> 00:42:29,359
Speaker 2: And now and it's still on, right, isn't Paradise still on?

881
00:42:29,880 --> 00:42:34,400
Speaker 1: It was not on last summer due to unfortunate circumstances

882
00:42:34,440 --> 00:42:37,799
Speaker 1: of ratings, but they they claim that it will be

883
00:42:37,880 --> 00:42:38,760
Speaker 1: back this summer.

884
00:42:39,480 --> 00:42:43,160
Speaker 2: Okay, I won't. We shall see, but it's interesting And

885
00:42:43,200 --> 00:42:46,319
Speaker 2: now I actually I'm curious about this too, Chris. What

886
00:42:46,360 --> 00:42:48,560
Speaker 2: do you you have a production company? Right? Well, again,

887
00:42:48,680 --> 00:42:51,000
Speaker 2: I know you doing anything bats related obviously.

888
00:42:50,719 --> 00:42:52,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, yea, Lauren and I have a production company.

889
00:42:52,400 --> 00:42:55,360
Speaker 2: And uh, are you doing yauty your scripted or feature?

890
00:42:55,400 --> 00:42:56,319
Speaker 2: What are you guys trying to.

891
00:42:56,440 --> 00:43:00,600
Speaker 1: We signed an overall deal with Merritt Street Media, which

892
00:43:00,640 --> 00:43:03,200
Speaker 1: is Doctor Phil's new network out of Dallas.

893
00:43:03,680 --> 00:43:03,839
Speaker 2: Uh.

894
00:43:03,840 --> 00:43:06,680
Speaker 1: He created a new network and we've been Yeah, so

895
00:43:06,880 --> 00:43:09,160
Speaker 1: we're in Austin and so we've been working with doctor

896
00:43:09,160 --> 00:43:12,279
Speaker 1: Phil and his network and it's great. It's just it's

897
00:43:12,280 --> 00:43:16,359
Speaker 1: so refreshing because he's just you know, the business has

898
00:43:16,440 --> 00:43:18,600
Speaker 1: changed so much, you know, because you're in the business now.

899
00:43:18,880 --> 00:43:20,840
Speaker 1: And we'll talk about that in a second, but you know,

900
00:43:20,880 --> 00:43:23,560
Speaker 1: when you're pitching shows, you're talking to you're talking to

901
00:43:23,640 --> 00:43:25,960
Speaker 1: a lot of tech people and you're talking to accountants

902
00:43:25,960 --> 00:43:29,160
Speaker 1: now instead of creatives who understand the business, and you're

903
00:43:29,200 --> 00:43:31,680
Speaker 1: trying to pitch them a show and they're just saying

904
00:43:31,719 --> 00:43:34,600
Speaker 1: some really inane things and they don't You're like, are

905
00:43:34,600 --> 00:43:37,160
Speaker 1: we even speaking the same language? And so it was

906
00:43:37,239 --> 00:43:39,160
Speaker 1: nice to go into a creative meeting with someone like

907
00:43:39,200 --> 00:43:41,680
Speaker 1: doctor Phil who's been in the business so long on

908
00:43:41,760 --> 00:43:45,160
Speaker 1: both sides of the camera of producer and host of like, oh,

909
00:43:45,200 --> 00:43:47,840
Speaker 1: I get what you're saying. Okay, let's go do this

910
00:43:47,960 --> 00:43:51,040
Speaker 1: and this is how we're going to get it done.

911
00:43:50,960 --> 00:43:51,440
Speaker 2: Yeah.

912
00:43:51,520 --> 00:43:53,760
Speaker 1: So it's been really refreshing. It's been it's been fun.

913
00:43:54,200 --> 00:43:57,920
Speaker 1: You have you're not break dancing anymore. You're not singing.

914
00:43:59,000 --> 00:44:02,600
Speaker 2: Sometimes her career is over. Yeah, that all ended.

915
00:44:02,719 --> 00:44:06,120
Speaker 1: Little known secret. The Stagliano brothers and I did play

916
00:44:06,120 --> 00:44:07,840
Speaker 1: in a couple soccer tournaments together.

917
00:44:08,280 --> 00:44:10,240
Speaker 2: That's right, good memory. Did you know Steve played semi

918
00:44:10,320 --> 00:44:11,720
Speaker 2: pro two out here in La.

919
00:44:11,680 --> 00:44:13,719
Speaker 1: Yeah he was. I was not going to say he

920
00:44:13,760 --> 00:44:15,600
Speaker 1: was the better of the Stagliano brothers of something.

921
00:44:15,680 --> 00:44:16,759
Speaker 2: No, don't say that on air.

922
00:44:16,880 --> 00:44:30,680
Speaker 1: No, you and I talked about. I mean, god, it

923
00:44:30,680 --> 00:44:32,160
Speaker 1: may have been a couple of years ago. Now when

924
00:44:32,200 --> 00:44:35,480
Speaker 1: you're like, I have this idea of what I want

925
00:44:35,520 --> 00:44:38,400
Speaker 1: to do, well, you've actually made this happen. So explain

926
00:44:38,480 --> 00:44:40,759
Speaker 1: to us, like the origin story, and tell us what

927
00:44:40,760 --> 00:44:41,200
Speaker 1: you're up to.

928
00:44:41,880 --> 00:44:43,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, Chris, I don't even know where to begin. I

929
00:44:44,080 --> 00:44:49,440
Speaker 2: suppose twelve years ago, after all the reality stuff ended,

930
00:44:50,000 --> 00:44:54,800
Speaker 2: I I hard pivoted into screenwriting that I just felt

931
00:44:54,840 --> 00:44:58,480
Speaker 2: this big old pull to do that. Honestly, I'd been

932
00:44:58,480 --> 00:45:01,759
Speaker 2: a writer my whole life, but once I started screenwriting,

933
00:45:01,920 --> 00:45:04,080
Speaker 2: it just there was a passion there that I knew

934
00:45:04,200 --> 00:45:07,840
Speaker 2: wasn't gonna let me go. And it's been twelve years.

935
00:45:07,840 --> 00:45:10,920
Speaker 2: I've written about forty scripts now, Like I don't know

936
00:45:11,000 --> 00:45:14,200
Speaker 2: ten pilots, probably thirty features. Most of them are adaptation based,

937
00:45:14,239 --> 00:45:17,440
Speaker 2: so I get hired from producers to take books and

938
00:45:17,480 --> 00:45:22,760
Speaker 2: adapt them into screenplays, into few films. And yeah, yeah,

939
00:45:22,800 --> 00:45:26,799
Speaker 2: going from reality TV to scripted content and trying to

940
00:45:26,840 --> 00:45:29,440
Speaker 2: get projects off the ground. I mean, you know, because

941
00:45:29,480 --> 00:45:32,319
Speaker 2: you have been to do it. It's a beating. It's

942
00:45:32,640 --> 00:45:37,399
Speaker 2: it's a ah gosh, Chris, It's both a beating, and

943
00:45:37,680 --> 00:45:40,040
Speaker 2: it's probably the thing I've been the most passionate about

944
00:45:40,120 --> 00:45:44,000
Speaker 2: in my life outside of my boys and my kids.

945
00:45:44,640 --> 00:45:46,840
Speaker 2: I probably should have stopped a long time ago. Actually,

946
00:45:46,880 --> 00:45:50,120
Speaker 2: let me be really really clear about this. In twelve years,

947
00:45:50,320 --> 00:45:52,640
Speaker 2: this is so embarrassing, but it's fun to give people

948
00:45:52,680 --> 00:45:54,440
Speaker 2: an insight into what it's like to be a screenwriter,

949
00:45:54,520 --> 00:45:56,800
Speaker 2: I think, and make it in the entertainment industry. Last

950
00:45:56,800 --> 00:46:01,560
Speaker 2: twelve years as a screenwriter, I've made ninety thousand dollars.

951
00:46:01,800 --> 00:46:06,520
Speaker 2: That's obviously almost no money at all, But Or and

952
00:46:07,080 --> 00:46:10,360
Speaker 2: I just I can't stop, like, I can't stop doing it.

953
00:46:10,400 --> 00:46:13,400
Speaker 2: I just love it so much, so passionately. And you know,

954
00:46:13,440 --> 00:46:16,360
Speaker 2: I have several projects optioned and in various stages of

955
00:46:16,400 --> 00:46:18,719
Speaker 2: development trying to get off the ground, and most recently

956
00:46:19,080 --> 00:46:22,400
Speaker 2: just published a show that I wrote and created with

957
00:46:22,400 --> 00:46:24,759
Speaker 2: with a team of people that is out now that

958
00:46:24,880 --> 00:46:28,360
Speaker 2: I'm honestly more excited about than all of the forty

959
00:46:28,360 --> 00:46:29,120
Speaker 2: on the scripts.

960
00:46:29,120 --> 00:46:31,560
Speaker 1: That is, Is this the podcast The Forgotten King?

961
00:46:32,200 --> 00:46:34,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, so this is the one I text you about. Yeah,

962
00:46:34,040 --> 00:46:35,320
Speaker 2: it's called The Forgotten King.

963
00:46:35,280 --> 00:46:37,040
Speaker 1: And it just came out I think I think September

964
00:46:37,040 --> 00:46:41,360
Speaker 1: twenty sixth it debuted, it came out, that's correct. I

965
00:46:41,400 --> 00:46:44,000
Speaker 1: assume we can we find this where all podcasts are found.

966
00:46:44,520 --> 00:46:48,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, let me just straight up plug it. So it's

967
00:46:48,719 --> 00:46:51,000
Speaker 2: The Forgotten King. You can find it on Apple and

968
00:46:51,040 --> 00:46:54,160
Speaker 2: on Spotify really anywhere that you listen to podcasts, and

969
00:46:54,200 --> 00:46:57,920
Speaker 2: on YouTube. And then the socials are TFK series. And

970
00:46:57,960 --> 00:47:01,440
Speaker 2: the thirty second plug is if you like Game of Thrones,

971
00:47:01,480 --> 00:47:03,680
Speaker 2: House of Dragons, Lord of the Rings, even Harry Potter,

972
00:47:03,719 --> 00:47:07,120
Speaker 2: if you like those major fantasy properties. I have been

973
00:47:07,200 --> 00:47:10,680
Speaker 2: studying them intimately for a decade, more than a decade,

974
00:47:10,680 --> 00:47:13,440
Speaker 2: and this is my attempt at trying to give fans

975
00:47:13,480 --> 00:47:16,280
Speaker 2: of that stuff. Huh, next bite, the next taste?

976
00:47:16,920 --> 00:47:19,839
Speaker 1: Is this a story game? Uh?

977
00:47:20,480 --> 00:47:23,160
Speaker 2: Yes and no right now.

978
00:47:23,280 --> 00:47:25,520
Speaker 1: But explain explain to us because that's the kind of

979
00:47:25,520 --> 00:47:27,400
Speaker 1: the genius of what you're trying to do here is

980
00:47:27,400 --> 00:47:29,880
Speaker 1: is create a story game, but explain what that is

981
00:47:29,920 --> 00:47:36,120
Speaker 1: and how you're creating that of for podcasts or for television.

982
00:47:36,640 --> 00:47:40,040
Speaker 2: Sure, So, my brother and I have a studio called

983
00:47:40,120 --> 00:47:43,000
Speaker 2: Story Games. It's a gaming and entertainment studio, and we're

984
00:47:43,000 --> 00:47:46,120
Speaker 2: trying to be the first studio that has scripted content

985
00:47:46,719 --> 00:47:50,480
Speaker 2: that has a relationship with gaming content, and in that

986
00:47:50,600 --> 00:47:53,160
Speaker 2: the story is connected. So the story that you watch

987
00:47:53,280 --> 00:47:55,560
Speaker 2: in the show is connected to the story that you

988
00:47:55,680 --> 00:47:58,480
Speaker 2: play in the game. And The Forgotten King is the

989
00:47:58,520 --> 00:48:01,239
Speaker 2: ip that we're you using to do that. So our

990
00:48:01,239 --> 00:48:04,719
Speaker 2: first installment of the story of the Forgotten King is

991
00:48:05,080 --> 00:48:08,520
Speaker 2: this audio drama. In case it isn't obvious for the listener,

992
00:48:08,840 --> 00:48:11,880
Speaker 2: Making an animated fantasy series, which is the highest aspiration

993
00:48:11,920 --> 00:48:15,040
Speaker 2: of what we want to do, is vanely expensive. Making

994
00:48:15,040 --> 00:48:18,320
Speaker 2: an audio drama is pretty low cost but very high quality.

995
00:48:18,320 --> 00:48:20,360
Speaker 2: We're really proud of, you know, the sound design and

996
00:48:20,400 --> 00:48:22,720
Speaker 2: the scoring. We had a whole team put it together,

997
00:48:23,040 --> 00:48:25,560
Speaker 2: and the hope is to use that to you know,

998
00:48:25,760 --> 00:48:27,960
Speaker 2: get enough of a crowd and awareness so that one

999
00:48:28,040 --> 00:48:30,839
Speaker 2: day we can make it, turn it, adapt it into

1000
00:48:30,880 --> 00:48:34,160
Speaker 2: a fantasy series that then has a relationship with gaming content,

1001
00:48:34,200 --> 00:48:38,239
Speaker 2: which again is just kind of revolutionary and we're super

1002
00:48:38,280 --> 00:48:40,160
Speaker 2: passionate about it. We've been doing it for about eighteen months.

1003
00:48:40,200 --> 00:48:43,560
Speaker 1: We had about relations And by the way, for those

1004
00:48:43,560 --> 00:48:45,799
Speaker 1: of you that you didn't keep up in the tabloids,

1005
00:48:46,239 --> 00:48:51,080
Speaker 1: Michael did end up finding love. You and Emily have

1006
00:48:51,160 --> 00:48:53,879
Speaker 1: been married ten eleven years.

1007
00:48:53,960 --> 00:48:54,120
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1008
00:48:54,160 --> 00:48:57,040
Speaker 1: I was just saying, because the kids are what you've

1009
00:48:57,120 --> 00:49:01,759
Speaker 1: had your Hunter Bowen, I think twenty sixteen was when

1010
00:49:01,800 --> 00:49:05,040
Speaker 1: you I think when you had your first kid, yeah Bowen, yep, yeah,

1011
00:49:05,080 --> 00:49:10,200
Speaker 1: And so that, like you said, life changes so much.

1012
00:49:10,200 --> 00:49:15,160
Speaker 1: Your perspective changes, being a dad now being married for

1013
00:49:15,160 --> 00:49:17,880
Speaker 1: so long, it is amazing you look back and fifteen

1014
00:49:17,920 --> 00:49:20,000
Speaker 1: years ago you're single and you're twenty five and you're

1015
00:49:20,040 --> 00:49:24,759
Speaker 1: on reality TV. To now the things you're responsible for,

1016
00:49:24,840 --> 00:49:27,960
Speaker 1: the things you care about are just it's so exponentially different.

1017
00:49:28,800 --> 00:49:34,440
Speaker 2: Chris. It's I if I did anything right going on

1018
00:49:34,480 --> 00:49:38,360
Speaker 2: the show and having time in the spotlight, it was

1019
00:49:38,600 --> 00:49:42,960
Speaker 2: using that to find Emily. She's the greatest thing that

1020
00:49:43,040 --> 00:49:46,600
Speaker 2: has ever happened in my life, you know. And not

1021
00:49:46,719 --> 00:49:49,439
Speaker 2: to get super romantic about it at the end here,

1022
00:49:49,480 --> 00:49:51,799
Speaker 2: but the twenty six year old, the twenty five year

1023
00:49:51,800 --> 00:49:54,240
Speaker 2: old that went on the batsurette to find that little

1024
00:49:54,239 --> 00:49:56,200
Speaker 2: part of me that was like, yeah, yeah, sure, this

1025
00:49:56,280 --> 00:49:59,920
Speaker 2: is a way to the greatest human to marry. Ever, honestly,

1026
00:50:00,040 --> 00:50:02,479
Speaker 2: I did get that. I did. It took a while,

1027
00:50:02,560 --> 00:50:04,880
Speaker 2: some bumps and bruises, a lot of heartbreak, but Emily

1028
00:50:05,200 --> 00:50:07,600
Speaker 2: is to this day. And for those of you who

1029
00:50:07,640 --> 00:50:09,440
Speaker 2: have been married for more than ten years, you know

1030
00:50:09,480 --> 00:50:13,200
Speaker 2: how hard it is to say I am crazy about Emily.

1031
00:50:13,320 --> 00:50:16,680
Speaker 2: She is. She's she's the best. And her two boys,

1032
00:50:16,719 --> 00:50:19,040
Speaker 2: you know, are the best obviously as well. So yeah,

1033
00:50:19,080 --> 00:50:21,560
Speaker 2: it's it's been a it's been it's been a good journey.

1034
00:50:21,600 --> 00:50:24,840
Speaker 1: What are the boys into these days where they're just

1035
00:50:24,960 --> 00:50:28,480
Speaker 1: what eight nine years old and six seven, six and.

1036
00:50:28,480 --> 00:50:33,040
Speaker 2: Seven seven right now? Bowen turned eight tomorrow, but they're

1037
00:50:33,040 --> 00:50:36,759
Speaker 2: six and seven, okay, and they're into soccer and basketball

1038
00:50:37,000 --> 00:50:40,480
Speaker 2: and jiu jitsu. And I'm a blue belt in jiu jitsu.

1039
00:50:40,680 --> 00:50:42,920
Speaker 1: By the way, that that is awesome. I you know,

1040
00:50:43,120 --> 00:50:45,440
Speaker 1: I know my son got into martial arts jiu jitsu.

1041
00:50:45,560 --> 00:50:48,160
Speaker 1: I mean, I can't say it wasn't a thing back then,

1042
00:50:48,239 --> 00:50:52,120
Speaker 1: but jiu jitsu is now it's become such a bigger thing. Obviously,

1043
00:50:52,160 --> 00:50:55,600
Speaker 1: the discipline has been around for many, many, you know, centuries,

1044
00:50:55,600 --> 00:50:58,799
Speaker 1: but it's become more commonplace now. And if I could

1045
00:50:58,840 --> 00:51:01,120
Speaker 1: do it all over again, I would have gotten involved

1046
00:51:01,120 --> 00:51:02,920
Speaker 1: in that. But he went through the martial arts and

1047
00:51:03,040 --> 00:51:07,160
Speaker 1: karate and became a black belt, and that discipline and

1048
00:51:07,320 --> 00:51:10,759
Speaker 1: the controlling of his own body and emotions and all

1049
00:51:10,760 --> 00:51:12,279
Speaker 1: that did wonders for him.

1050
00:51:12,800 --> 00:51:15,279
Speaker 2: I could not recommend it more, especially for kids that

1051
00:51:15,320 --> 00:51:18,120
Speaker 2: struggle with you know, stress, anxiety, self confidence. If they

1052
00:51:18,480 --> 00:51:22,200
Speaker 2: leads the stuff, yeah, the impact is pretty immediate, I'd

1053
00:51:22,239 --> 00:51:23,399
Speaker 2: say for kids, yep.

1054
00:51:23,520 --> 00:51:27,200
Speaker 1: And it's funny. And I think this in our in

1055
00:51:27,239 --> 00:51:28,960
Speaker 1: this day and age, in our society, like there is

1056
00:51:28,960 --> 00:51:31,880
Speaker 1: there's so much anxiety, and there's so much we worry

1057
00:51:31,920 --> 00:51:33,680
Speaker 1: about so much, and I think we treat people with

1058
00:51:33,760 --> 00:51:37,320
Speaker 1: kid gloves so much. I think going the opposite direction

1059
00:51:37,560 --> 00:51:41,680
Speaker 1: of the physicality of jiu jitsu, and it's not that

1060
00:51:41,719 --> 00:51:43,799
Speaker 1: you're trying to hurt somebody, because you're not. Same thing

1061
00:51:43,800 --> 00:51:47,040
Speaker 1: with karate, and what Joshua was learning it was really

1062
00:51:47,120 --> 00:51:50,960
Speaker 1: controlling his emotions and controlling being in this storm. But

1063
00:51:51,080 --> 00:51:54,000
Speaker 1: being able to control that is so huge and it

1064
00:51:54,080 --> 00:51:57,320
Speaker 1: really does convey to every other aspect of your life.

1065
00:51:58,160 --> 00:52:01,800
Speaker 2: That was incredibly well described. Yeah, the mental jiu jitsu

1066
00:52:01,920 --> 00:52:04,320
Speaker 2: is a physical martial art. Obviously, you're grappling, You're trying

1067
00:52:04,360 --> 00:52:07,560
Speaker 2: to submit your opponent to the point where they're like

1068
00:52:07,600 --> 00:52:10,560
Speaker 2: if you if I don't tap right now, I'll either

1069
00:52:10,560 --> 00:52:12,239
Speaker 2: pass out or your break my arm. Like, so let's

1070
00:52:12,280 --> 00:52:15,120
Speaker 2: say fight. I mean that that's yeah, very much the

1071
00:52:15,160 --> 00:52:19,880
Speaker 2: table stakes. But learning how to be calm in that environment.

1072
00:52:20,040 --> 00:52:23,560
Speaker 2: The application of that goes well beyond just rolling on

1073
00:52:23,600 --> 00:52:24,960
Speaker 2: a jiu jitsu Matt, you know what I mean. You

1074
00:52:24,960 --> 00:52:27,000
Speaker 2: can apply that to work in life, and it's a

1075
00:52:27,000 --> 00:52:29,839
Speaker 2: big deal. Yeah, and all martial arts, I think, Yeah,

1076
00:52:30,200 --> 00:52:32,080
Speaker 2: that mental side is it is great for your kids

1077
00:52:32,080 --> 00:52:34,319
Speaker 2: and being just being involved in sports and all that.

1078
00:52:34,520 --> 00:52:37,400
Speaker 1: It's it's I don't know if you've noticed. I'm not

1079
00:52:37,440 --> 00:52:39,080
Speaker 1: going to call you an old dad, but you're forty,

1080
00:52:39,480 --> 00:52:41,640
Speaker 1: so you I I just think that what I was

1081
00:52:41,680 --> 00:52:43,919
Speaker 1: a bit younger when my kids were your kids age,

1082
00:52:43,960 --> 00:52:47,520
Speaker 1: and I think I cared about certain things too much

1083
00:52:47,760 --> 00:52:48,439
Speaker 1: the wrong way.

1084
00:52:48,520 --> 00:52:48,680
Speaker 2: You know.

1085
00:52:48,760 --> 00:52:51,000
Speaker 1: It's like, you know, you're too into sports, You're too

1086
00:52:51,040 --> 00:52:54,680
Speaker 1: into It's like I didn't have a good grasp of

1087
00:52:54,760 --> 00:52:56,040
Speaker 1: what's really important.

1088
00:52:56,680 --> 00:53:01,160
Speaker 2: Emily and I, I think are trying to keep this

1089
00:53:01,280 --> 00:53:04,800
Speaker 2: lens of what are boys good at and passionate about?

1090
00:53:04,840 --> 00:53:07,520
Speaker 2: And how do we foster them into that. I think

1091
00:53:07,520 --> 00:53:11,640
Speaker 2: it's very easy to especially as the dad, I feel like, say,

1092
00:53:11,760 --> 00:53:12,719
Speaker 2: you're gonna do this.

1093
00:53:12,760 --> 00:53:15,840
Speaker 1: You're gonna play football for the Green Bay Packers.

1094
00:53:16,440 --> 00:53:17,840
Speaker 2: I am a Packers fan. Did you know that? So?

1095
00:53:18,000 --> 00:53:21,520
Speaker 1: Yes, that's a little fan. Everybody knows you're a Packers fan.

1096
00:53:22,560 --> 00:53:24,520
Speaker 1: Brett Favre knows you're a Packers fan.

1097
00:53:25,840 --> 00:53:30,759
Speaker 2: And trying to Yeah, just both emotionally. I think you know,

1098
00:53:30,880 --> 00:53:34,480
Speaker 2: as dad, I don't know if i'd say our generation

1099
00:53:34,640 --> 00:53:38,280
Speaker 2: growing up, our dads really knew how to emotionally support kids.

1100
00:53:38,719 --> 00:53:39,640
Speaker 2: When I say that my.

1101
00:53:39,680 --> 00:53:42,600
Speaker 1: Dad, I don't remember my dad as a child. Going, Chris,

1102
00:53:42,640 --> 00:53:45,319
Speaker 1: how do you feel right now? How does that make

1103
00:53:45,360 --> 00:53:45,920
Speaker 1: you feel?

1104
00:53:47,520 --> 00:53:49,360
Speaker 2: Now? It was just this is how I feel, and

1105
00:53:49,440 --> 00:53:50,239
Speaker 2: you deal with that.

1106
00:53:50,360 --> 00:53:52,360
Speaker 1: Dad, I just want to emote right now. Can I

1107
00:53:52,400 --> 00:53:53,600
Speaker 1: just tell you my emotions?

1108
00:53:54,000 --> 00:53:57,240
Speaker 2: Do you feel like though with your son? Now, Chris,

1109
00:53:57,280 --> 00:53:59,480
Speaker 2: you do get to have a dialogue that's like, hey,

1110
00:53:59,560 --> 00:54:00,840
Speaker 2: I care about your.

1111
00:54:00,680 --> 00:54:05,600
Speaker 1: Opinion one hundred percent. I started again you are. This

1112
00:54:05,680 --> 00:54:07,960
Speaker 1: is why you have to kind of it's important to

1113
00:54:08,560 --> 00:54:11,239
Speaker 1: when there is a and my parents are wonderful, my dad,

1114
00:54:11,440 --> 00:54:13,239
Speaker 1: both my mom and dad and God are still alive

1115
00:54:13,280 --> 00:54:16,400
Speaker 1: and they're great parents. But you talk about breaking the

1116
00:54:16,400 --> 00:54:18,800
Speaker 1: cycle of something, you know, my dad was you know,

1117
00:54:18,840 --> 00:54:20,800
Speaker 1: I grew up in Texas in the seventies and eighties.

1118
00:54:21,239 --> 00:54:24,799
Speaker 1: My it's my way or the highway, Yes, ma'am, Yes, sir,

1119
00:54:25,440 --> 00:54:28,160
Speaker 1: why is it this way? Because that's what I just said.

1120
00:54:28,760 --> 00:54:30,600
Speaker 2: He hug and kiss you started to get real.

1121
00:54:31,760 --> 00:54:34,960
Speaker 1: My parents love I always say love was spoken in

1122
00:54:35,000 --> 00:54:38,320
Speaker 1: my house. We all said I love you. We definitely touched.

1123
00:54:38,440 --> 00:54:40,680
Speaker 1: We like we would hug each other to this day,

1124
00:54:41,000 --> 00:54:43,600
Speaker 1: we hug each other say I love you. That part

1125
00:54:43,760 --> 00:54:46,640
Speaker 1: was very advanced. I have to give my dad credit

1126
00:54:46,719 --> 00:54:50,200
Speaker 1: my mom. My mom is from a Jewish family, which

1127
00:54:50,400 --> 00:54:53,719
Speaker 1: I kind of Likento Italians. They're very touchy feely, were

1128
00:54:53,840 --> 00:54:56,680
Speaker 1: very We're very emotional, so you know, we talk with

1129
00:54:56,719 --> 00:55:00,160
Speaker 1: our hands and it's a part of a tribe. My

1130
00:55:00,239 --> 00:55:02,680
Speaker 1: dad was not a part of that and was very

1131
00:55:02,719 --> 00:55:06,759
Speaker 1: Texan and very kind of cowboy redneck, but he did

1132
00:55:06,800 --> 00:55:09,040
Speaker 1: get that love gene. Maybe you got it from my

1133
00:55:09,120 --> 00:55:10,040
Speaker 1: mom and her family.

1134
00:55:10,120 --> 00:55:11,880
Speaker 2: How much of them did you pick up, Chris, like

1135
00:55:11,920 --> 00:55:13,440
Speaker 2: when you think about yourself, A lot of.

1136
00:55:13,400 --> 00:55:16,640
Speaker 1: It, A lot of I very much from the beginning

1137
00:55:16,719 --> 00:55:18,680
Speaker 1: told my kids I love them. I still do. My

1138
00:55:19,160 --> 00:55:21,640
Speaker 1: son is I give him a lot of credit to

1139
00:55:21,719 --> 00:55:24,360
Speaker 1: this day. You know, even in those awkward years, he

1140
00:55:24,400 --> 00:55:26,080
Speaker 1: would come up and give us a hug in the

1141
00:55:26,120 --> 00:55:29,960
Speaker 1: middle of the lacrosse team or you know, in a crowd.

1142
00:55:30,000 --> 00:55:33,120
Speaker 1: And so I love that stuff when I see I

1143
00:55:33,160 --> 00:55:35,440
Speaker 1: think it is so important. And I have met people

1144
00:55:35,520 --> 00:55:38,359
Speaker 1: along the way who their parents never said I love

1145
00:55:38,440 --> 00:55:42,240
Speaker 1: you and never spoke that out loud, and not having

1146
00:55:42,280 --> 00:55:47,520
Speaker 1: that is it's hugely detrimental. I think you have to

1147
00:55:47,560 --> 00:55:50,840
Speaker 1: speak that into existence. You have to hug. Physical touch

1148
00:55:50,880 --> 00:55:54,360
Speaker 1: is a huge thing for kids. And so yeah, luckily

1149
00:55:54,760 --> 00:55:57,680
Speaker 1: I did find early on I was my way or

1150
00:55:57,680 --> 00:56:00,479
Speaker 1: the highway with my son, and you know, I would

1151
00:56:00,520 --> 00:56:02,960
Speaker 1: spank him and just like my dad did, and I

1152
00:56:03,040 --> 00:56:05,200
Speaker 1: just I know, there was this epiphany one time of like,

1153
00:56:05,920 --> 00:56:09,759
Speaker 1: I'm not achieving the results that I want here. I

1154
00:56:10,040 --> 00:56:13,080
Speaker 1: don't even know why I'm doing this anymore. And I started,

1155
00:56:13,120 --> 00:56:16,680
Speaker 1: you know, changing my ways. And that's it's growth, it's evolution,

1156
00:56:16,800 --> 00:56:20,080
Speaker 1: it's learning. But it goes to show with anything in

1157
00:56:20,160 --> 00:56:22,279
Speaker 1: society is you have to give people the space to

1158
00:56:22,400 --> 00:56:25,360
Speaker 1: learn and grow. And I don't judge my dad for

1159
00:56:25,400 --> 00:56:28,000
Speaker 1: who he was. He was a great dad and he

1160
00:56:28,080 --> 00:56:30,080
Speaker 1: I think he created a good man. I'm a gentleman,

1161
00:56:30,640 --> 00:56:32,160
Speaker 1: but I think I've done a better job.

1162
00:56:32,280 --> 00:56:34,680
Speaker 2: I don't know, maybe this I hope this doesn't sound

1163
00:56:34,719 --> 00:56:37,359
Speaker 2: like a cop out, but like times were different back then,

1164
00:56:37,440 --> 00:56:40,960
Speaker 2: Like I think as a community of like our brotherhood

1165
00:56:41,040 --> 00:56:44,680
Speaker 2: of men and fathers, people just thought Michael.

1166
00:56:44,360 --> 00:56:47,880
Speaker 1: To act like they weren't different is doing it a

1167
00:56:47,920 --> 00:56:50,560
Speaker 1: great injustice, and it's doing the people a great It

1168
00:56:50,560 --> 00:56:53,239
Speaker 1: would be doing my dad a great injustice or his granddad,

1169
00:56:54,360 --> 00:56:56,799
Speaker 1: you know, Like I've talked to my dad about his

1170
00:56:56,880 --> 00:56:59,600
Speaker 1: mom dying, and I'm like, well, what did you and granddaddy,

1171
00:56:59,680 --> 00:57:01,920
Speaker 1: that's his dad. What did y'all talk about after that?

1172
00:57:03,400 --> 00:57:07,600
Speaker 1: I've never talked about it, Michael, they never had a discussion.

1173
00:57:08,120 --> 00:57:10,880
Speaker 2: Part of your does part of you, you know, your

1174
00:57:10,920 --> 00:57:13,400
Speaker 2: heart breaks for that, or or is part of you

1175
00:57:13,520 --> 00:57:15,759
Speaker 2: like I wonder if it's because they said everything that

1176
00:57:15,880 --> 00:57:16,800
Speaker 2: needed to be said before.

1177
00:57:16,880 --> 00:57:19,400
Speaker 1: No, it's because they didn't know how to communicate. It's

1178
00:57:19,440 --> 00:57:22,560
Speaker 1: because they just didn't do that back then, and now

1179
00:57:22,680 --> 00:57:23,840
Speaker 1: look maybe.

1180
00:57:24,040 --> 00:57:25,960
Speaker 2: Why they were less stressed back then.

1181
00:57:26,000 --> 00:57:28,920
Speaker 1: Maybe, but look maybe the look the pendulum swung. I

1182
00:57:29,080 --> 00:57:31,280
Speaker 1: was a latch key kid and then the pendulum swings,

1183
00:57:31,600 --> 00:57:34,440
Speaker 1: and now we're helicopter parents. I think we may need

1184
00:57:34,440 --> 00:57:36,600
Speaker 1: to get back to not caring a little bit more,

1185
00:57:36,680 --> 00:57:39,320
Speaker 1: you know, and giving kids a little more grope. But

1186
00:57:39,480 --> 00:57:41,680
Speaker 1: it always finds a way. Are how do you find you?

1187
00:57:41,800 --> 00:57:43,840
Speaker 1: Do you find yourself being a helicopter parent?

1188
00:57:44,720 --> 00:57:47,080
Speaker 2: No, I'm just I'm gonna lean on Emily again here

1189
00:57:47,120 --> 00:57:49,560
Speaker 2: and give for the praise. I think Emily has figured

1190
00:57:49,560 --> 00:57:51,160
Speaker 2: out how to be a great parent, and then I

1191
00:57:51,360 --> 00:57:54,480
Speaker 2: kind of lean on that. And honestly, Chris, you probably

1192
00:57:55,080 --> 00:57:57,640
Speaker 2: can remember this from my days as a breakdance instructor

1193
00:57:57,640 --> 00:57:58,760
Speaker 2: on a reality time So.

1194
00:57:58,880 --> 00:58:02,840
Speaker 1: How many times you say the exit a lot? I?

1195
00:58:02,960 --> 00:58:06,600
Speaker 2: You know, I'm I'm the fun dad. I act like

1196
00:58:06,640 --> 00:58:09,360
Speaker 2: a princess and then a transformer and I throw them

1197
00:58:09,360 --> 00:58:10,920
Speaker 2: in the pool. I beat the crap out of them,

1198
00:58:10,960 --> 00:58:13,320
Speaker 2: you know what I mean? Like, I am I'm that

1199
00:58:13,920 --> 00:58:17,000
Speaker 2: and though and Emily's the love and the comfort and

1200
00:58:17,040 --> 00:58:19,960
Speaker 2: the hey emotional support, and I've tried to do that

1201
00:58:20,000 --> 00:58:22,240
Speaker 2: as well, but especially because they're dudes. I feel like

1202
00:58:22,280 --> 00:58:24,960
Speaker 2: I'm also much more the disciplinarian. Like when I walk

1203
00:58:25,000 --> 00:58:27,280
Speaker 2: in the room, I don't really need to say anything.

1204
00:58:27,400 --> 00:58:30,080
Speaker 2: Especially family is like Dad, he's coming in here. You know,

1205
00:58:30,280 --> 00:58:32,800
Speaker 2: I'm kind of the I lay down the law a

1206
00:58:32,840 --> 00:58:35,120
Speaker 2: little bit more, which which feels good. And then to

1207
00:58:35,120 --> 00:58:40,360
Speaker 2: answer you directly, the helicoptery thing. One of our sons,

1208
00:58:40,840 --> 00:58:45,240
Speaker 2: Hunter was developmentally delayed and had you know, speech and ot.

1209
00:58:45,360 --> 00:58:47,640
Speaker 2: He actually just graduated like a week ago, which I'm

1210
00:58:47,680 --> 00:58:49,760
Speaker 2: telling you was like I got the fucking party basically,

1211
00:58:49,800 --> 00:58:53,240
Speaker 2: so happy graduated. Actually it's a really big deal anyway.

1212
00:58:53,280 --> 00:58:56,440
Speaker 2: But because of that, I felt like we were very involved.

1213
00:58:56,480 --> 00:59:01,520
Speaker 2: Like his i EP individualized education program and Emily took

1214
00:59:01,640 --> 00:59:03,360
Speaker 2: most of that way, but yeah, I drove him all

1215
00:59:03,400 --> 00:59:06,400
Speaker 2: over the place. So I feel very involved in that

1216
00:59:06,520 --> 00:59:08,959
Speaker 2: sense of the world, but not like a we still

1217
00:59:09,000 --> 00:59:12,600
Speaker 2: cut fruit small. Maybe that's a hell. There's still things that.

1218
00:59:12,760 --> 00:59:15,640
Speaker 1: No, it's look the two things I always say, you

1219
00:59:15,640 --> 00:59:18,200
Speaker 1: can be as a parent involved in their life and

1220
00:59:18,240 --> 00:59:21,520
Speaker 1: love them. Yeah, look, there's a lot of thing. There's

1221
00:59:21,520 --> 00:59:23,360
Speaker 1: a lot of things around there, but you know they're

1222
00:59:23,360 --> 00:59:26,400
Speaker 1: gonna they're gonna do things around you and without you whatever.

1223
00:59:26,440 --> 00:59:28,400
Speaker 1: But if you're involved in their life, you know who

1224
00:59:28,400 --> 00:59:29,840
Speaker 1: their friends are, you know what they're up to, you

1225
00:59:29,880 --> 00:59:32,520
Speaker 1: know what's going on, and you love them. It seems

1226
00:59:32,520 --> 00:59:33,400
Speaker 1: to find a way.

1227
00:59:33,640 --> 00:59:36,120
Speaker 2: And put them in physical combat with other kids.

1228
00:59:36,160 --> 00:59:38,960
Speaker 1: It's a lost art. I think there was a big

1229
00:59:40,520 --> 00:59:43,240
Speaker 1: generation that kind of went through where we're like, you know, no,

1230
00:59:43,240 --> 00:59:46,520
Speaker 1: no fisticuffs, no rough stuff. No, you know, it's absolutely

1231
00:59:46,520 --> 00:59:50,360
Speaker 1: you know, no tackling in doing jiu jitsu. I you know,

1232
00:59:50,360 --> 00:59:52,680
Speaker 1: it's funny I have, but I feel like it's an.

1233
00:59:52,640 --> 00:59:55,400
Speaker 2: Old man's Yeah, yeah, calling an old man. But most

1234
00:59:55,440 --> 00:59:56,680
Speaker 2: of the guys in my gym are older than me

1235
00:59:56,720 --> 00:59:57,400
Speaker 2: by so I know.

1236
00:59:57,480 --> 01:00:01,280
Speaker 1: Joe Rogan is massively involved in it. Russell Brand is

1237
01:00:01,320 --> 01:00:03,080
Speaker 1: a huge jiu jitsu fame.

1238
01:00:03,200 --> 01:00:04,480
Speaker 2: Watch a lot of their content.

1239
01:00:04,600 --> 01:00:06,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, and they're really into it. And I think it's

1240
01:00:07,000 --> 01:00:09,760
Speaker 1: a great I think it's a wonderful discipline. I feel

1241
01:00:09,760 --> 01:00:11,640
Speaker 1: like if I get into it now, I'm just gonna

1242
01:00:11,640 --> 01:00:12,400
Speaker 1: get my ass kicked.

1243
01:00:12,880 --> 01:00:16,480
Speaker 2: No, you're so long, it's the opposite. Actually, well, I'm sorry.

1244
01:00:16,520 --> 01:00:19,040
Speaker 2: It depends on the gym. You should if you do

1245
01:00:19,400 --> 01:00:19,840
Speaker 2: check it out.

1246
01:00:20,000 --> 01:00:22,000
Speaker 1: Oh good, here comes the Bachelor. Guy. You're gonna beat

1247
01:00:22,040 --> 01:00:23,439
Speaker 1: his ass.

1248
01:00:24,080 --> 01:00:26,960
Speaker 2: You will have a stigma for sure walking in. Actually, honestly,

1249
01:00:27,000 --> 01:00:29,800
Speaker 2: after or a few of the guys at my gym

1250
01:00:29,840 --> 01:00:32,240
Speaker 2: were like, you know that, we know who you are, right,

1251
01:00:32,280 --> 01:00:34,440
Speaker 2: And I was like, no, I would have no. I

1252
01:00:34,480 --> 01:00:35,000
Speaker 2: have been fun.

1253
01:00:35,080 --> 01:00:40,280
Speaker 1: We've had fun pounding you reality boy. But yeah, yeah, Michael,

1254
01:00:40,320 --> 01:00:42,840
Speaker 1: I am so glad we caught up my friend Chris.

1255
01:00:42,920 --> 01:00:44,640
Speaker 2: It's hard to know what to say. This really meant

1256
01:00:44,640 --> 01:00:46,200
Speaker 2: a lot. I feel like I should just you know,

1257
01:00:46,560 --> 01:00:48,720
Speaker 2: I reached out to you to be on your show,

1258
01:00:48,760 --> 01:00:53,040
Speaker 2: which is like the most uncool, washed up reality star

1259
01:00:53,240 --> 01:00:55,720
Speaker 2: thing you can do. I do thank you. It was

1260
01:00:55,760 --> 01:00:56,280
Speaker 2: so cool.

1261
01:00:56,440 --> 01:00:58,960
Speaker 1: Right up until that point, you were better than JP Rosenbaub,

1262
01:00:59,000 --> 01:01:01,160
Speaker 1: But now you just flew it.

1263
01:01:01,160 --> 01:01:01,880
Speaker 2: It was right there.

1264
01:01:01,960 --> 01:01:07,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, we are right there. Really though, one of the

1265
01:01:07,400 --> 01:01:09,160
Speaker 1: great things about this show, and I say it all

1266
01:01:09,200 --> 01:01:14,560
Speaker 1: the time, is that I have this group of friends

1267
01:01:14,560 --> 01:01:16,600
Speaker 1: that I've met and it was only because of this show.

1268
01:01:16,680 --> 01:01:19,920
Speaker 1: These people came into my life for a reason a season,

1269
01:01:20,600 --> 01:01:22,480
Speaker 1: but many of them have stayed and you are one

1270
01:01:22,480 --> 01:01:24,520
Speaker 1: of those. And actually, your brother, who wasn't even a

1271
01:01:24,560 --> 01:01:26,560
Speaker 1: part of the show, has been a part of my life.

1272
01:01:26,600 --> 01:01:29,720
Speaker 1: And that's a wonderful thing. So I appreciate you taking

1273
01:01:29,760 --> 01:01:31,800
Speaker 1: the time and wish you nothing but the best.

1274
01:01:32,240 --> 01:01:34,440
Speaker 2: It truly was my pleasure, Chris. I have nothing but

1275
01:01:34,520 --> 01:01:37,000
Speaker 2: good things to say, and we'll continue to just really

1276
01:01:37,000 --> 01:01:38,560
Speaker 2: be a fan of yours. Buddy. It meant a lot

1277
01:01:38,600 --> 01:01:39,120
Speaker 2: to have me on.

1278
01:01:39,560 --> 01:01:41,960
Speaker 1: Love you and I'll talk to you soon, all right, buddy,

1279
01:01:42,080 --> 01:01:45,120
Speaker 1: take care, Thanks for listening. Follow us on Instagram at

1280
01:01:45,120 --> 01:01:47,720
Speaker 1: the most dramatic pod ever, and make sure to write

1281
01:01:47,760 --> 01:01:50,400
Speaker 1: us a review and leave us five stars. I'll talk

1282
01:01:50,440 --> 01:01:51,120
Speaker 1: to you next time.