1 00:00:00,520 --> 00:00:03,480 Speaker 1: Since our previous release of Vincent Simmons' story, an amazing 2 00:00:03,520 --> 00:00:06,560 Speaker 1: series of events has occurred. In addition to the work 3 00:00:06,600 --> 00:00:09,680 Speaker 1: of his investigator as well as his attorney, Justin Bonus, 4 00:00:09,920 --> 00:00:14,360 Speaker 1: CBS Morning's lead correspondent David Begmow did his own investigation, 5 00:00:14,680 --> 00:00:16,959 Speaker 1: and as part of that, he did an interview that 6 00:00:17,040 --> 00:00:20,120 Speaker 1: aired in February twenty twenty two in which he spoke 7 00:00:20,160 --> 00:00:23,800 Speaker 1: with the alleged victims in this case, Karen and Sharon Sanders, 8 00:00:24,000 --> 00:00:27,600 Speaker 1: who made some explosive revelations. In this re release, we 9 00:00:27,640 --> 00:00:30,320 Speaker 1: will not only fill you in on the incredible developments 10 00:00:30,320 --> 00:00:33,400 Speaker 1: in this case, but also you'll hear once again from 11 00:00:33,400 --> 00:00:40,560 Speaker 1: the man himself, Vincent Simmons. In May of nineteen seventy seven, 12 00:00:40,640 --> 00:00:44,440 Speaker 1: fourteen year old white twin sisters Karen and Sharon Sanders 13 00:00:44,479 --> 00:00:47,320 Speaker 1: allegedly went to help their eighteen year old cousin, Keith 14 00:00:47,400 --> 00:00:50,760 Speaker 1: la Board clean his house in of Olds Parish, Louisiana. 15 00:00:51,520 --> 00:00:54,720 Speaker 1: Years later, Keith Laboord admitted to carrying on a sexual 16 00:00:54,760 --> 00:00:58,360 Speaker 1: relationship with Karen Sanders, but back in May of seventy seven, 17 00:00:58,520 --> 00:01:01,560 Speaker 1: when asked about a scratch on his Keith began to 18 00:01:01,600 --> 00:01:04,920 Speaker 1: spin a narrative supported by the twin girls, that led 19 00:01:05,040 --> 00:01:09,000 Speaker 1: in a well tread direction. According to Keith and the twins, 20 00:01:09,040 --> 00:01:12,160 Speaker 1: they picked up a hitchhiking black man who allegedly pulled 21 00:01:12,160 --> 00:01:14,840 Speaker 1: a gun and forced Keith and Karen into the trunk 22 00:01:15,040 --> 00:01:19,720 Speaker 1: before raping Sharon, followed by Karen. Conflicting accounts and descriptions, 23 00:01:19,720 --> 00:01:22,000 Speaker 1: as well as a rape kit that confirmed that Sharon 24 00:01:22,120 --> 00:01:25,400 Speaker 1: was still a virgin, didn't stop the accusation of an 25 00:01:25,440 --> 00:01:29,680 Speaker 1: alleged black assailant. While police officer Robert Laboord was out 26 00:01:29,720 --> 00:01:32,000 Speaker 1: searching for a potential culprit on the morning of May 27 00:01:32,040 --> 00:01:35,679 Speaker 1: twenty third, nineteen seventy seven, his partner Floyd Juno spotted 28 00:01:35,760 --> 00:01:39,760 Speaker 1: Vincent Simmons, whom he knew from previous petty crimes. Despite 29 00:01:39,800 --> 00:01:43,440 Speaker 1: not matching what were already conflicting descriptions of this imaginary 30 00:01:43,480 --> 00:01:47,240 Speaker 1: black man, they arrested Vincent for the alleged rapes. Both 31 00:01:47,280 --> 00:01:50,560 Speaker 1: girls and Keith picked out the only handcuffed black man 32 00:01:50,560 --> 00:01:53,760 Speaker 1: in the lineup, and when Vincent refused to confess, Officer 33 00:01:53,880 --> 00:01:57,920 Speaker 1: Robert Leboard shot him in the chest. Miraculously, Vincent survived, 34 00:01:57,920 --> 00:02:01,320 Speaker 1: but only to have all evidence, all of it exculpatory 35 00:02:01,440 --> 00:02:04,760 Speaker 1: withheld from him at trial, condemning him to serve one 36 00:02:04,840 --> 00:02:08,520 Speaker 1: hundred years in Angola Prison. Vincent's fight against a web 37 00:02:08,560 --> 00:02:12,320 Speaker 1: of family connections lies and the worst in American racism 38 00:02:12,440 --> 00:02:30,160 Speaker 1: continues to this very day. This is wrongful conviction. Welcome 39 00:02:30,160 --> 00:02:32,520 Speaker 1: back to wrongful conviction. I'm Jason Flopp. 40 00:02:33,160 --> 00:02:36,760 Speaker 2: Today's case is so troubling that I don't know where 41 00:02:36,840 --> 00:02:39,520 Speaker 2: to start. But I will tell you this before we 42 00:02:39,639 --> 00:02:42,440 Speaker 2: even get into it, and I introduce to you the 43 00:02:42,520 --> 00:02:48,160 Speaker 2: man himself, Vinctent Simmons, who's still incarcerated in Angola Penitentiary 44 00:02:48,320 --> 00:02:50,359 Speaker 2: for over forty four years now for a crime he 45 00:02:50,440 --> 00:02:52,800 Speaker 2: had nothing to do with. I will tell you that 46 00:02:52,880 --> 00:02:58,160 Speaker 2: this case has a toxic mixture of small town racism, 47 00:02:58,480 --> 00:03:03,919 Speaker 2: false accusations, a total lack of evidence. A police officer 48 00:03:04,080 --> 00:03:08,000 Speaker 2: who was closely related to what should have been the 49 00:03:08,040 --> 00:03:13,000 Speaker 2: obvious suspect, who actually shot mister Simmons in the police 50 00:03:13,000 --> 00:03:15,799 Speaker 2: station when he refused to confess in the chest by 51 00:03:15,800 --> 00:03:19,200 Speaker 2: the way, narrowly missing his heart and killing him. 52 00:03:19,760 --> 00:03:23,000 Speaker 1: Yes, you heard that correctly. And everybody involved basically is 53 00:03:23,040 --> 00:03:25,760 Speaker 1: white except for mister Simmons, who's black. And now that's 54 00:03:26,040 --> 00:03:30,280 Speaker 1: just the freaking beginning. So first of all, Vincent, I'm 55 00:03:30,360 --> 00:03:32,920 Speaker 1: so honored that you're here today to talk to us. 56 00:03:32,960 --> 00:03:34,920 Speaker 1: I'm so sorry that you are where you are, that 57 00:03:34,960 --> 00:03:36,840 Speaker 1: we're talking to you from prison, and I'm hoping that 58 00:03:36,960 --> 00:03:40,560 Speaker 1: soon we'll be having a totally different conversation from the 59 00:03:40,600 --> 00:03:42,960 Speaker 1: free world. So welcome to Wrongful Conviction. 60 00:03:43,880 --> 00:03:45,160 Speaker 3: Thank you, I haven't me. 61 00:03:46,120 --> 00:03:48,760 Speaker 1: We're very happy to have you, and we apologize to 62 00:03:48,800 --> 00:03:51,760 Speaker 1: our audience in advance for the audio quality on Vincent's phone. 63 00:03:51,800 --> 00:03:54,200 Speaker 1: It sounds like he's calling us from a time capsule, 64 00:03:54,240 --> 00:03:57,960 Speaker 1: and in many ways he really is. And Gola Penitentiary 65 00:03:58,080 --> 00:04:02,360 Speaker 1: was built on a literal plant, which couldn't put a 66 00:04:02,400 --> 00:04:05,320 Speaker 1: finer point on what this case is all about. And 67 00:04:05,440 --> 00:04:07,280 Speaker 1: joining us today as a man who you may be 68 00:04:07,360 --> 00:04:10,000 Speaker 1: familiar with from our coverage of Nelson Cruz in Brooklyn 69 00:04:10,040 --> 00:04:14,040 Speaker 1: and Marcus Wiggins in Chicago. Now today he's fighting for 70 00:04:14,200 --> 00:04:17,320 Speaker 1: Vincent's case pro bono, flying back and forth from New 71 00:04:17,360 --> 00:04:21,440 Speaker 1: York to Louisiana. So justin bonus, thanks for coming back 72 00:04:21,640 --> 00:04:22,600 Speaker 1: to Wrongful Conviction. 73 00:04:23,080 --> 00:04:24,840 Speaker 4: Not a problem, Jason. It's great to be on here 74 00:04:24,839 --> 00:04:25,520 Speaker 4: again as well. 75 00:04:26,240 --> 00:04:30,080 Speaker 1: So this insane saga goes all the way back to 76 00:04:30,200 --> 00:04:35,360 Speaker 1: nineteen seventy seven. So, Vincent, before this happened and your 77 00:04:35,400 --> 00:04:38,719 Speaker 1: life got turned upside down and inside out, what was 78 00:04:38,760 --> 00:04:41,200 Speaker 1: your life like before this insanity? 79 00:04:42,440 --> 00:04:45,800 Speaker 5: Yeah, I was born in a bald parish, a place 80 00:04:45,920 --> 00:04:49,719 Speaker 5: called man Philah Lewis there. When I was living in 81 00:04:49,839 --> 00:04:56,320 Speaker 5: man Phila, I had had some involved with a bald parent. 82 00:04:56,600 --> 00:05:01,760 Speaker 5: Share of DePaul I was involved with compared to crime. 83 00:05:02,480 --> 00:05:06,479 Speaker 5: I moved to Houston and I got a job and 84 00:05:07,120 --> 00:05:11,360 Speaker 5: I learned that my father had that and I come 85 00:05:11,480 --> 00:05:15,800 Speaker 5: back to do with Yeah, I was back for out 86 00:05:15,839 --> 00:05:16,279 Speaker 5: a month. 87 00:05:17,000 --> 00:05:19,679 Speaker 6: I was live with my sister leave. 88 00:05:19,640 --> 00:05:24,520 Speaker 7: You, and I was on my way to work and 89 00:05:24,560 --> 00:05:27,960 Speaker 7: I was picked up a vol parish bodice. 90 00:05:29,000 --> 00:05:31,480 Speaker 1: So you were a known entity to a Bowls Parish 91 00:05:31,520 --> 00:05:34,600 Speaker 1: police before heading to Houston for work and returning when 92 00:05:34,640 --> 00:05:38,040 Speaker 1: your father passed away, which made you available to be 93 00:05:38,160 --> 00:05:41,520 Speaker 1: picked up for what allegedly happened to these twin girls 94 00:05:41,560 --> 00:05:43,880 Speaker 1: on May nine, nineteen seventy seven. And the date, I mean, 95 00:05:43,920 --> 00:05:45,800 Speaker 1: we're not even sure of that because the girls were 96 00:05:45,880 --> 00:05:48,080 Speaker 1: never really clear on a date and time. But the 97 00:05:48,200 --> 00:05:52,400 Speaker 1: narrative that comes out is a sadly familiar American tale, 98 00:05:52,520 --> 00:05:55,719 Speaker 1: a false accusation of a black man by an alleged 99 00:05:55,800 --> 00:05:59,160 Speaker 1: white victim or victims in this case, and the alleged 100 00:05:59,279 --> 00:06:02,200 Speaker 1: crime that took place. The narrative that set this horrible 101 00:06:02,800 --> 00:06:07,560 Speaker 1: and justice against Vincent in motion is this. On May ninth, 102 00:06:07,800 --> 00:06:12,960 Speaker 1: nineteen seventy seven, twin sisters Sharon and Karen Sanders allegedly 103 00:06:13,040 --> 00:06:15,560 Speaker 1: went over to the house of their eighteen year old cousin, 104 00:06:15,680 --> 00:06:18,279 Speaker 1: Keith Leboard remember that last name, to help him clean, 105 00:06:18,680 --> 00:06:21,719 Speaker 1: and while driving the sisters home that night, the three 106 00:06:22,279 --> 00:06:27,680 Speaker 1: allegedly stopped for gas when Vincent Simmons allegedly approached and 107 00:06:27,839 --> 00:06:30,640 Speaker 1: asked the Board for a ride home, to which the 108 00:06:30,760 --> 00:06:35,159 Speaker 1: Board supposedly agreed. And then the claim is that six 109 00:06:35,320 --> 00:06:38,679 Speaker 1: miles outside of Marksville, on a deserted stretch of Little 110 00:06:38,760 --> 00:06:43,480 Speaker 1: California Road, Vincent allegedly took out a gun, forced Keith 111 00:06:43,560 --> 00:06:46,680 Speaker 1: le Board and Karen into the trunk while he allegedly 112 00:06:46,839 --> 00:06:51,279 Speaker 1: raped Sharon, and then he allegedly put Sharon in the trunk, 113 00:06:51,720 --> 00:06:54,640 Speaker 1: drove on for a bit before retrieving Karen to do 114 00:06:54,760 --> 00:06:58,280 Speaker 1: the same to her. Now Afterwards, Vincent allegedly threatened them 115 00:06:58,400 --> 00:07:02,440 Speaker 1: all before dropping himself off to catch a bus, so 116 00:07:03,040 --> 00:07:06,800 Speaker 1: about two weeks after this alleged incident. May twenty second 117 00:07:07,040 --> 00:07:09,600 Speaker 1: is when this narrative is first reported to the sheriff's 118 00:07:09,640 --> 00:07:12,960 Speaker 1: office and the investigation, if you can even call it, 119 00:07:13,080 --> 00:07:16,440 Speaker 1: that begins. Justin take us through this nightmare. 120 00:07:16,960 --> 00:07:20,280 Speaker 4: So there was Karen Sanders, Sharon Sanders, and then Keith 121 00:07:20,360 --> 00:07:25,440 Speaker 4: the Board that were allegedly basically kidnapped, thrown in a trunk. 122 00:07:25,840 --> 00:07:29,400 Speaker 4: The two sisters were raped. That's their story. So on 123 00:07:29,600 --> 00:07:35,040 Speaker 4: May twenty second, John Leboard, Keith's father, calls the sheriff 124 00:07:35,200 --> 00:07:38,480 Speaker 4: because Keith's father is the parish assessor. What you have 125 00:07:38,560 --> 00:07:40,680 Speaker 4: to understand about the the boards is there's like ten 126 00:07:40,800 --> 00:07:42,920 Speaker 4: thousand of them in a Voles parish. This is a 127 00:07:43,040 --> 00:07:47,000 Speaker 4: very strong family. He calls the chief of police and 128 00:07:47,160 --> 00:07:50,240 Speaker 4: he says that my twin nieces have been raped by 129 00:07:50,240 --> 00:07:54,280 Speaker 4: a black man. That's how this begins. And then the 130 00:07:54,480 --> 00:07:57,320 Speaker 4: girls are brought in. The girls don't know what date 131 00:07:57,360 --> 00:08:01,120 Speaker 4: it happens. The police give them a date. The girls 132 00:08:01,400 --> 00:08:04,480 Speaker 4: provide their initial statements, which weren't turned over a trial. 133 00:08:05,280 --> 00:08:07,840 Speaker 4: They weren't turned over till nineteen ninety three. They give 134 00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:13,600 Speaker 4: completely inconsistent statements. Sharon Sanders actually calls the suspect the 135 00:08:13,800 --> 00:08:17,920 Speaker 4: N word over and over again, says all blacks look alike, okay, 136 00:08:18,800 --> 00:08:21,600 Speaker 4: and that's why she wouldn't be able to identify him. 137 00:08:22,320 --> 00:08:25,880 Speaker 4: They don't talk to the boy Keith Leboard until after 138 00:08:26,040 --> 00:08:30,280 Speaker 4: Vincent is already arrested. Neither of these girls give a 139 00:08:30,400 --> 00:08:33,920 Speaker 4: description that matches Vincent. They say short and fat, well, 140 00:08:34,000 --> 00:08:38,320 Speaker 4: Vincent is five nine one point fifty. Again, their descriptions conflict. 141 00:08:38,840 --> 00:08:42,319 Speaker 4: You know, it's just one thing after another, and specifically 142 00:08:42,440 --> 00:08:46,320 Speaker 4: with regard to Karen Sanders, she talks about being raped 143 00:08:46,679 --> 00:08:51,240 Speaker 4: anally orally vaginally. When the doctor looks at her after 144 00:08:51,400 --> 00:08:56,079 Speaker 4: she talks to police, there is no injuries. Sharon talks 145 00:08:56,120 --> 00:08:59,120 Speaker 4: about a thirty minute rape vaginally to the point where 146 00:08:59,160 --> 00:09:02,120 Speaker 4: she bled. She said that she gave her panties to 147 00:09:02,240 --> 00:09:06,600 Speaker 4: her grandmother and they were washed, of course. And what's 148 00:09:06,679 --> 00:09:09,679 Speaker 4: interesting about Sharon is that her hymen was intact when 149 00:09:09,760 --> 00:09:12,480 Speaker 4: she was examined by the doctor in this case. 150 00:09:12,559 --> 00:09:18,400 Speaker 1: So okay, Inconsistent statements, conflicting descriptions, and outright lies unsupported 151 00:09:18,440 --> 00:09:21,559 Speaker 1: by physical reality. And the next day, at nine to 152 00:09:21,600 --> 00:09:24,440 Speaker 1: twenty am on May twenty third, Vincent was just walking 153 00:09:24,480 --> 00:09:26,920 Speaker 1: to work when he was picked up off the street, 154 00:09:27,440 --> 00:09:29,079 Speaker 1: arrested and brought to the station. 155 00:09:30,040 --> 00:09:33,200 Speaker 4: He was arrested on May twenty third of nineteen seventy 156 00:09:33,280 --> 00:09:37,839 Speaker 4: seven on view for this crime. And what on view 157 00:09:38,000 --> 00:09:40,720 Speaker 4: means is they didn't have a name Vincent Simmons, They 158 00:09:40,800 --> 00:09:44,199 Speaker 4: had no probable cause to arrest him. They saw him 159 00:09:44,280 --> 00:09:46,080 Speaker 4: on the side of the street. When I say they, 160 00:09:46,880 --> 00:09:49,000 Speaker 4: you had mentioned a family member of one of the 161 00:09:49,080 --> 00:09:52,560 Speaker 4: alleged victims, and that was Robert Leboard. And I don't 162 00:09:52,600 --> 00:09:55,679 Speaker 4: know his direct relation to Keith Leboard, but I believe 163 00:09:55,720 --> 00:09:58,599 Speaker 4: it could be a cousin. So really, what you have 164 00:09:58,720 --> 00:10:00,760 Speaker 4: to understand with Vincent is he out of history with 165 00:10:00,880 --> 00:10:04,000 Speaker 4: the Marksville Police Department and the Voles Parish Sheriff's office. 166 00:10:04,520 --> 00:10:08,480 Speaker 4: And Floyd Juno was driving with Robert Leboard on the 167 00:10:08,600 --> 00:10:11,719 Speaker 4: Dave Vincent got arrested on May twenty second, and he 168 00:10:11,840 --> 00:10:14,959 Speaker 4: knew Vincent, he knew who he was before, and he 169 00:10:15,040 --> 00:10:17,640 Speaker 4: knew he was a troublemaker. And he's the glue to this. 170 00:10:18,040 --> 00:10:23,479 Speaker 4: He's the person that basically points the finger at Vincent first. 171 00:10:24,000 --> 00:10:25,719 Speaker 1: Right, right right, And if you have the chance to 172 00:10:25,840 --> 00:10:28,520 Speaker 1: watch one of the documentaries about Vincent's story, there's the 173 00:10:28,640 --> 00:10:31,720 Speaker 1: farm and shadows of a Doubt, we'll have them linked 174 00:10:31,800 --> 00:10:33,960 Speaker 1: in to buy, of course. But in Shadows of a Doubt, 175 00:10:34,080 --> 00:10:37,400 Speaker 1: Floyd Juno describes this arrest in much the same way 176 00:10:37,440 --> 00:10:40,880 Speaker 1: that Justin has. So that same morning, the sheriff sent 177 00:10:40,960 --> 00:10:43,439 Speaker 1: deputies for the twins, who were picked up from school 178 00:10:43,480 --> 00:10:46,240 Speaker 1: and brought to the station along with Keith Lebord, who 179 00:10:46,240 --> 00:10:48,640 Speaker 1: was brought from work, and told them that they were 180 00:10:48,720 --> 00:10:51,480 Speaker 1: going to view a lineup with the perpetrator in it. 181 00:10:51,840 --> 00:10:55,000 Speaker 1: So officers picked out seven guys for the lineup, one 182 00:10:55,040 --> 00:10:59,559 Speaker 1: of whom was white, Okay, a few others were well 183 00:10:59,559 --> 00:11:00,520 Speaker 1: over six feet tall. 184 00:11:01,040 --> 00:11:01,520 Speaker 8: I remember. 185 00:11:01,600 --> 00:11:05,800 Speaker 1: The description was of this imaginary perpetrator was black, short 186 00:11:05,960 --> 00:11:09,240 Speaker 1: and fat, right, And they placed Vincent in the center. 187 00:11:09,760 --> 00:11:12,599 Speaker 1: And get this, Vincent is the only one who was 188 00:11:12,679 --> 00:11:15,160 Speaker 1: handcuffed out of all of them. I mean, it wasn't 189 00:11:15,200 --> 00:11:16,840 Speaker 1: like they were trying to be subtle here right as 190 00:11:16,880 --> 00:11:20,600 Speaker 1: to who they wanted them to identify. So the twins 191 00:11:20,760 --> 00:11:25,240 Speaker 1: and Keith lo and Behold all select Vincent as the perpetrator. 192 00:11:25,920 --> 00:11:30,440 Speaker 7: They claimed that I was identified, and from that point 193 00:11:30,559 --> 00:11:35,600 Speaker 7: they took me into another loan and that's when they 194 00:11:35,720 --> 00:11:38,400 Speaker 7: told me that I had to give him a confession, 195 00:11:38,960 --> 00:11:42,320 Speaker 7: and I refused to give a confession. I told him 196 00:11:42,360 --> 00:11:45,839 Speaker 7: that before I confessed to a crime that I didn't do, 197 00:11:46,080 --> 00:11:50,520 Speaker 7: I'll die first. And that's when they hit me. And 198 00:11:50,600 --> 00:11:55,280 Speaker 7: they knocked to a cloth and started kicking me. And 199 00:11:55,440 --> 00:11:58,880 Speaker 7: then when I tried to get out, he kicked me again. 200 00:11:59,800 --> 00:12:03,520 Speaker 7: And when I did you to chair I was sitting 201 00:12:03,559 --> 00:12:08,000 Speaker 7: in to get up Robert Lopol he d his death 202 00:12:08,200 --> 00:12:11,520 Speaker 7: from his seat where he would righting to a confression 203 00:12:12,400 --> 00:12:14,760 Speaker 7: and pull his weapon and shot. 204 00:12:15,840 --> 00:12:17,120 Speaker 6: He shot, then a check. 205 00:12:27,960 --> 00:12:31,120 Speaker 1: This episode is underwritten by global law firm Greenberg Traig 206 00:12:31,480 --> 00:12:34,679 Speaker 1: through its pro bono program. Greenberg Traig leverages it's more 207 00:12:34,720 --> 00:12:37,559 Speaker 1: than twenty four hundred lawyers across forty two offices to 208 00:12:37,640 --> 00:12:40,520 Speaker 1: serve the greater good of our communities and provide equal 209 00:12:40,679 --> 00:12:44,040 Speaker 1: access to justice for all. In the field of criminal justice, 210 00:12:44,120 --> 00:12:48,280 Speaker 1: Greenberg Trowerg attorneys have exonerated and Freedoman in Philadelphia represent 211 00:12:48,440 --> 00:12:51,520 Speaker 1: numerous individuals previously sentenced to life for crimes committed as 212 00:12:51,600 --> 00:12:55,560 Speaker 1: juveniles and resentencing hearings, and received the American Bar Association's 213 00:12:55,600 --> 00:12:59,040 Speaker 1: twenty twenty one Exceptional Service Award for death penalty representation 214 00:12:59,240 --> 00:13:02,839 Speaker 1: for their work on five death penalty cases. GT is 215 00:13:02,920 --> 00:13:06,319 Speaker 1: reimagining what big law can be because a more just 216 00:13:06,480 --> 00:13:08,400 Speaker 1: world only happens by design. 217 00:13:16,440 --> 00:13:18,199 Speaker 4: I think something that I really want to bring to 218 00:13:18,200 --> 00:13:21,199 Speaker 4: your attention, to your Jason, is this is that technically 219 00:13:21,720 --> 00:13:25,400 Speaker 4: Vincent really should have been charged with kidnapping Keith Lebor. 220 00:13:25,880 --> 00:13:29,360 Speaker 4: They didn't charge him with that. Why, well, you know, 221 00:13:29,800 --> 00:13:32,240 Speaker 4: I think we know why. The other thing is the 222 00:13:32,320 --> 00:13:36,280 Speaker 4: police all said that Vincent attempted to grab the gun 223 00:13:36,440 --> 00:13:39,719 Speaker 4: of one of the officers and the safety was on 224 00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:43,400 Speaker 4: or something like that ridiculous story. They don't ever charge 225 00:13:43,480 --> 00:13:46,160 Speaker 4: Vincent with attempted murder of a police officer either. 226 00:13:46,920 --> 00:13:48,920 Speaker 1: And this is weird, right because it's not like the 227 00:13:49,000 --> 00:13:53,000 Speaker 1: state typically has any issue at all with piling on charges, right, 228 00:13:53,200 --> 00:13:55,319 Speaker 1: But there were no gun charges here either, as that 229 00:13:55,480 --> 00:13:58,600 Speaker 1: was part of the alleged kidnapping in this case as well. 230 00:13:59,120 --> 00:14:03,840 Speaker 1: So at the preliminary hearing on July seventh, both twins testified, 231 00:14:04,080 --> 00:14:08,679 Speaker 1: but neither the alleged kidnapping victim Keithlipboard, nor the alleged 232 00:14:08,720 --> 00:14:15,040 Speaker 1: attempted murder victims the police officers participated. Yeah that's yeah, sure, okay, 233 00:14:15,280 --> 00:14:20,680 Speaker 1: So during her testimony, Sharon is asked three consecutive times 234 00:14:20,840 --> 00:14:22,960 Speaker 1: to identify the man from the crime, and this is 235 00:14:23,080 --> 00:14:26,640 Speaker 1: the twin who states that all black people look alike. 236 00:14:27,040 --> 00:14:30,960 Speaker 1: She doesn't respond until the court steps in, and this 237 00:14:31,320 --> 00:14:34,400 Speaker 1: was when, for the very first time ever, she says 238 00:14:34,480 --> 00:14:38,680 Speaker 1: that the man said his name was Simmons. Now, Karen 239 00:14:38,840 --> 00:14:42,240 Speaker 1: also parroted this statement that the culpert told Keith his 240 00:14:42,400 --> 00:14:45,400 Speaker 1: name was Simmons. But then in the same preliminary hearing, 241 00:14:45,680 --> 00:14:47,960 Speaker 1: when asked why it took two weeks to come forward 242 00:14:48,000 --> 00:14:51,800 Speaker 1: with this story, Karen testified that, quote, we couldn't go 243 00:14:51,920 --> 00:14:56,360 Speaker 1: to the cops because we didn't know his name, unquote, 244 00:14:57,080 --> 00:14:59,840 Speaker 1: So which one is it? Karen, right, which is it? 245 00:15:00,160 --> 00:15:01,720 Speaker 1: Because both of those things can't be true. 246 00:15:02,320 --> 00:15:06,560 Speaker 4: Everyone overlooked that. That means that their testimony and the 247 00:15:06,600 --> 00:15:09,440 Speaker 4: preliminary hearing that they knew the man's name, and their 248 00:15:09,480 --> 00:15:13,520 Speaker 4: testimony a trial that they knew the man's name is false. 249 00:15:14,160 --> 00:15:15,840 Speaker 4: That kind of just got glossed over. 250 00:15:16,400 --> 00:15:18,560 Speaker 1: So let's get to the trial. And I'm going to 251 00:15:18,640 --> 00:15:21,720 Speaker 1: put trial in quotes here too. So there's no physical 252 00:15:21,760 --> 00:15:25,240 Speaker 1: evidence that these rapes ever actually happened. Start with that 253 00:15:25,840 --> 00:15:28,360 Speaker 1: no forensic tests were done on the twins, clothing, or 254 00:15:28,440 --> 00:15:31,400 Speaker 1: the car in which the alleged rapes occurred, and police 255 00:15:31,440 --> 00:15:34,520 Speaker 1: reports did not include a single lead that pointed the Vincent. 256 00:15:34,880 --> 00:15:37,640 Speaker 1: Doctors didn't find any signs of injury on either of 257 00:15:37,680 --> 00:15:41,560 Speaker 1: the alleged victims, including Sharon's intact hymen. She was a 258 00:15:41,680 --> 00:15:45,840 Speaker 1: virgin who was, according to her statement, the victim of 259 00:15:45,960 --> 00:15:50,760 Speaker 1: a bloody rape, which of course is physically impossible. So 260 00:15:51,720 --> 00:15:54,720 Speaker 1: if you're listening to this now and going, well, then 261 00:15:55,080 --> 00:15:58,760 Speaker 1: there's all this evidence, right, how the hell could anyone, 262 00:15:59,480 --> 00:16:02,200 Speaker 1: even a black man in the Deep South in the seventies, 263 00:16:02,480 --> 00:16:06,360 Speaker 1: how could anyone get convicted on the basis of this. Well, 264 00:16:06,400 --> 00:16:08,880 Speaker 1: it later comes out to Vincent and his attorney received 265 00:16:09,080 --> 00:16:13,320 Speaker 1: exactly none of this. They received no discovery in this case. 266 00:16:13,600 --> 00:16:15,960 Speaker 1: By no, I mean zero. What I'm saying is all 267 00:16:16,240 --> 00:16:20,640 Speaker 1: of that critical exculpatory evidence that you just heard wasn't 268 00:16:20,680 --> 00:16:25,280 Speaker 1: revealed to him for another sixteen years. His lawyers never 269 00:16:25,480 --> 00:16:28,480 Speaker 1: even knew about the shady lineup with the handcuffs, you know, 270 00:16:28,560 --> 00:16:31,320 Speaker 1: which was obviously done for one reason, so that these 271 00:16:31,600 --> 00:16:35,200 Speaker 1: alleged victims would know who to pick in this imaginary crime. 272 00:16:35,360 --> 00:16:39,080 Speaker 1: There were pictures of that the inconsistencies and conflicts in 273 00:16:39,160 --> 00:16:42,920 Speaker 1: the initial accounts and assail of descriptions and initial statements. 274 00:16:42,960 --> 00:16:45,440 Speaker 1: They said they didn't know his name, but later testified 275 00:16:45,680 --> 00:16:48,440 Speaker 1: that he had told Keith his name was Simmons. How 276 00:16:48,560 --> 00:16:51,720 Speaker 1: Karen gave a clue to that discrepancy in her preliminary 277 00:16:51,760 --> 00:16:55,720 Speaker 1: hearing testimony, all of it. So the fix was in, 278 00:16:56,440 --> 00:16:58,880 Speaker 1: So justin, can you take us through what happened at 279 00:16:58,920 --> 00:16:59,840 Speaker 1: this sham trial? 280 00:17:00,480 --> 00:17:04,000 Speaker 4: So they take him the trial and the girls get 281 00:17:04,080 --> 00:17:07,120 Speaker 4: on the witness stand and they say they know his name. 282 00:17:07,720 --> 00:17:12,440 Speaker 4: They say a rape happened. And the defense attorneys don't 283 00:17:12,480 --> 00:17:14,760 Speaker 4: do a great job of poking holes in there because 284 00:17:14,760 --> 00:17:17,120 Speaker 4: they don't have anything to poke holes in. They don't 285 00:17:17,160 --> 00:17:21,600 Speaker 4: have any cross examination material. Okay, they have three witnesses 286 00:17:21,960 --> 00:17:26,800 Speaker 4: that were allegedly with this man for three hours. That's 287 00:17:26,840 --> 00:17:31,639 Speaker 4: a long time to be with somebody. Mistaken identification is 288 00:17:31,920 --> 00:17:34,560 Speaker 4: not really something you can argue when you're around somebody 289 00:17:34,640 --> 00:17:38,200 Speaker 4: for three hours unless you saw the initial statements, right, 290 00:17:39,640 --> 00:17:43,200 Speaker 4: can't really do it. I mean, the trial's a joke. 291 00:17:43,920 --> 00:17:46,880 Speaker 4: Eddie Nole, who was the prosecutor, and the district attorney 292 00:17:47,240 --> 00:17:49,520 Speaker 4: and his wife are the ones that tried the case, 293 00:17:50,359 --> 00:17:54,000 Speaker 4: and this was a flim flam show. They actually on 294 00:17:54,160 --> 00:17:58,760 Speaker 4: occasion during direct examination they would interchange when they thought 295 00:17:58,840 --> 00:18:02,000 Speaker 4: the other one didn't ask enough questions, or on cross exam. 296 00:18:02,160 --> 00:18:05,840 Speaker 1: I've never seen that, And they probably could have done 297 00:18:05,920 --> 00:18:09,879 Speaker 1: anything they wanted because without discovery, they had nothing with 298 00:18:10,000 --> 00:18:13,800 Speaker 1: which to hold the prosecution or any of the witnesses accountable. 299 00:18:14,280 --> 00:18:18,520 Speaker 1: Then you have these racially charged elements, two white twin 300 00:18:18,640 --> 00:18:21,840 Speaker 1: sisters under age, by the way, fourteen years old, a 301 00:18:21,960 --> 00:18:28,000 Speaker 1: black guy in Louisiana in nineteen seventy seven, So they 302 00:18:28,320 --> 00:18:30,600 Speaker 1: could have said that he took them in a spaceship, 303 00:18:30,680 --> 00:18:32,440 Speaker 1: hit them on the head with a toaster oven, and 304 00:18:32,520 --> 00:18:35,679 Speaker 1: then they went and visited, you know, talking penguins on Mars. 305 00:18:36,119 --> 00:18:38,880 Speaker 1: I mean, they could have said anything, and I could 306 00:18:38,880 --> 00:18:40,879 Speaker 1: actually picture in my mind the jury just sort of 307 00:18:41,000 --> 00:18:43,840 Speaker 1: sitting there, you know, horrified, with their mouths open, hearing 308 00:18:43,880 --> 00:18:46,800 Speaker 1: about how these two young girls were brutalizing, you know, 309 00:18:46,960 --> 00:18:51,000 Speaker 1: these poor little girls. It's hard to turn away from 310 00:18:51,040 --> 00:18:54,960 Speaker 1: that kind of testimony. But there were some very significant 311 00:18:55,040 --> 00:18:58,320 Speaker 1: things that still should have sowed serious doubts in the 312 00:18:58,400 --> 00:18:59,560 Speaker 1: minds of these jurors. 313 00:19:00,800 --> 00:19:04,520 Speaker 4: I think the biggest thing here that we started to 314 00:19:04,680 --> 00:19:11,240 Speaker 4: uncover as we investigated, is that the area that Vincent 315 00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:16,000 Speaker 4: allegedly sees these three at a gas station in the 316 00:19:16,080 --> 00:19:20,480 Speaker 4: middle of Marksville, but then he takes them allegedly or 317 00:19:20,600 --> 00:19:23,840 Speaker 4: tells them to go to a part of a Voles 318 00:19:23,960 --> 00:19:30,399 Speaker 4: parish that's like Clan country. So where these alleged rapes 319 00:19:31,280 --> 00:19:34,879 Speaker 4: happen is in the middle of Clan country. It's not 320 00:19:35,119 --> 00:19:40,879 Speaker 4: where the black community is. That's what to me should 321 00:19:40,880 --> 00:19:45,639 Speaker 4: have raised alarm bells for everybody, including the white jury. 322 00:19:46,280 --> 00:19:47,439 Speaker 4: This is not believable. 323 00:19:47,960 --> 00:19:50,919 Speaker 1: What was alleged to be a three hour long encounter 324 00:19:51,080 --> 00:19:54,200 Speaker 1: with two twin underage white girls being raped by a 325 00:19:54,400 --> 00:19:58,160 Speaker 1: black man in the middle of Clan country. I would 326 00:19:58,200 --> 00:20:01,480 Speaker 1: have sooner bought into the store worry about Mars and 327 00:20:01,680 --> 00:20:04,840 Speaker 1: Vincent was able to present something in his defense right 328 00:20:05,000 --> 00:20:08,120 Speaker 1: His attorney called him to the stand where he said 329 00:20:08,240 --> 00:20:10,320 Speaker 1: that he was at a bar on May ninth and 330 00:20:10,560 --> 00:20:14,119 Speaker 1: presented three alibi witnesses who all dated that he was 331 00:20:14,200 --> 00:20:15,200 Speaker 1: at the bar with them. 332 00:20:15,520 --> 00:20:19,800 Speaker 4: His alibi witnesses, they tried to discredit these people with 333 00:20:20,040 --> 00:20:24,200 Speaker 4: traffic tickets and like petty crimes because they wanted to 334 00:20:24,320 --> 00:20:28,080 Speaker 4: make the alibis look like they were not law abiding citizens, 335 00:20:28,119 --> 00:20:30,000 Speaker 4: even though they basically were. I mean, one of the 336 00:20:30,080 --> 00:20:33,639 Speaker 4: witnesses that testified for Vincent was a business owner, and 337 00:20:33,760 --> 00:20:36,960 Speaker 4: they attacked them using like speeding tickets and parking tickets 338 00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:37,480 Speaker 4: that he received. 339 00:20:37,520 --> 00:20:38,120 Speaker 1: It was a joke. 340 00:20:38,680 --> 00:20:39,760 Speaker 4: The trial was a joke. 341 00:20:40,160 --> 00:20:42,959 Speaker 1: Yeah, it was a joke. But not a funny one though, 342 00:20:43,000 --> 00:20:46,600 Speaker 1: because eleven white people and one black woman on the jury. 343 00:20:46,640 --> 00:20:48,720 Speaker 1: I remember at that time in Louisiana and all the 344 00:20:48,760 --> 00:20:51,800 Speaker 1: way up till twenty eighteen, they didn't need a unanimous 345 00:20:51,880 --> 00:20:54,080 Speaker 1: verdict to convict. It was one of the ways that 346 00:20:54,200 --> 00:20:57,600 Speaker 1: they disenfranchised black folks. You only needed ten of the 347 00:20:57,720 --> 00:21:00,640 Speaker 1: twelve members on the jury to vote guilty. So black 348 00:21:00,720 --> 00:21:02,720 Speaker 1: woman or not, let's just call it like it is. 349 00:21:02,800 --> 00:21:04,800 Speaker 1: There was no hope in hell for Vincent. And so 350 00:21:05,000 --> 00:21:08,160 Speaker 1: there you are, still trying to heal from a gunshot 351 00:21:08,240 --> 00:21:11,680 Speaker 1: wound to the chest at close range and watching this 352 00:21:12,160 --> 00:21:16,159 Speaker 1: ridiculous trial. Did you still have any hope that they 353 00:21:16,200 --> 00:21:19,600 Speaker 1: would see the discrepancies in this crazy narrative and see 354 00:21:19,640 --> 00:21:21,280 Speaker 1: that you were innocent? Oh? 355 00:21:22,359 --> 00:21:27,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, there was no hope because the greatest virror was focused. 356 00:21:28,600 --> 00:21:33,280 Speaker 3: Oh what the victims were saying, there was no hope 357 00:21:33,760 --> 00:21:37,960 Speaker 3: of receiving a fan trial, and you would know I 358 00:21:38,160 --> 00:21:41,760 Speaker 3: was shot. They at that I was shut. There was 359 00:21:41,880 --> 00:21:44,280 Speaker 3: no question answer to what happened. 360 00:21:45,400 --> 00:21:49,320 Speaker 1: So vincent that moment, a lot had happened to you already. 361 00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:50,880 Speaker 1: But I have to think this would be the worst 362 00:21:50,920 --> 00:21:53,840 Speaker 1: moment of anybody's life to be wrongfully convicted of a 363 00:21:53,920 --> 00:21:58,240 Speaker 1: crime they didn't commit. Do you remember that moment when 364 00:21:58,280 --> 00:22:01,280 Speaker 1: they declared you guilty, and since you two one hundred 365 00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:02,280 Speaker 1: years in prison. 366 00:22:03,280 --> 00:22:04,120 Speaker 3: Yes, I did. 367 00:22:05,359 --> 00:22:10,240 Speaker 7: When I heard all those lies told and the jury 368 00:22:10,359 --> 00:22:15,359 Speaker 7: come back and condicted me, even with my alibi, with 369 00:22:16,600 --> 00:22:22,320 Speaker 7: telling the children, the jurors still believed their lives. And 370 00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:26,960 Speaker 7: it was amazing for me to believe that those people 371 00:22:27,040 --> 00:22:30,800 Speaker 7: would tell that kind of lie to the juror, and 372 00:22:30,960 --> 00:22:57,280 Speaker 7: the juror believed that. When I got to a gola 373 00:22:57,880 --> 00:23:02,000 Speaker 7: and they slam to those behind me, it was like 374 00:23:02,160 --> 00:23:06,720 Speaker 7: a shot for me. And from that moment then I 375 00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:11,840 Speaker 7: was experiencing nightmares at night. When I went to sleep, 376 00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:13,960 Speaker 7: or tried to go to sleep, I would have a 377 00:23:14,119 --> 00:23:19,040 Speaker 7: nightmare or be a shot and beat over and over again. 378 00:23:20,280 --> 00:23:21,160 Speaker 6: When I got down. 379 00:23:22,160 --> 00:23:25,480 Speaker 7: Even the guys in the town, they already knew what 380 00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:29,320 Speaker 7: my job was, and I went through the New Aid 381 00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:36,159 Speaker 7: Experiences day, so I bought all you ship human waste. 382 00:23:37,040 --> 00:23:43,000 Speaker 7: You know your torture. I've been stalled several times, you 383 00:23:43,080 --> 00:23:45,800 Speaker 7: know all the skin come off my bady, But I 384 00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:50,000 Speaker 7: wouldn't report it because they would call your rack heear. 385 00:23:50,880 --> 00:23:56,280 Speaker 7: I had several night night falls that was from the 386 00:23:56,440 --> 00:24:01,000 Speaker 7: ball town. They would make it possible for they didn't 387 00:24:01,040 --> 00:24:06,520 Speaker 7: may got a home year the gods hearing of all family. 388 00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:13,240 Speaker 7: They would intentionally like the remote where I would be 389 00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:19,119 Speaker 7: the repartrator of the night. So from one lockdown to another, 390 00:24:19,800 --> 00:24:23,960 Speaker 7: that's what caused me to be lockdown and a solitary 391 00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:28,800 Speaker 7: confinement in all these years because I was being attacked 392 00:24:29,359 --> 00:24:34,440 Speaker 7: and being transferred to another lockdown. I've step twenty some 393 00:24:34,760 --> 00:24:40,920 Speaker 7: years in silentary confinements and I just got out in 394 00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:46,160 Speaker 7: two thousand nineteen, and that's when I got the call 395 00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:50,560 Speaker 7: from Justin say that he was go take my case. 396 00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:55,560 Speaker 1: Forty four years wrongfully convicted, and twenty seven of those 397 00:24:55,640 --> 00:24:59,760 Speaker 1: were in solitary confinement because of constant assaults from other 398 00:25:00,520 --> 00:25:05,439 Speaker 1: who also found ways to believe the childish, nonsensical lie 399 00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:09,840 Speaker 1: that these three backwoods redneck low lifes told to cover 400 00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:14,440 Speaker 1: up their dirty, disgusting, little incest secret. And I don't 401 00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:17,760 Speaker 1: even know what to say except that I'm absolutely amazed 402 00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:22,240 Speaker 1: at your courage and your strength to persevere and just 403 00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:26,080 Speaker 1: even be here at all. After all you've gone through, Vincent, 404 00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:30,560 Speaker 1: you are a living miracle. So justin We know that 405 00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:34,000 Speaker 1: the post conviction litigation started almost immediately back in nineteen 406 00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:36,639 Speaker 1: seventy eight, and it went about as well as the 407 00:25:36,760 --> 00:25:40,159 Speaker 1: trial did. But Vincent finally got a break of sorts 408 00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:42,200 Speaker 1: in nineteen ninety three. Can you talk us through that. 409 00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:47,280 Speaker 4: Nineteen ninety three, Vincent files a man Damus, and somebody 410 00:25:47,359 --> 00:25:50,320 Speaker 4: in the DA's office copies the whole file. That's how 411 00:25:50,440 --> 00:25:54,159 Speaker 4: Vincent gets his file. That's when he first gets the discovery. 412 00:25:54,800 --> 00:25:57,200 Speaker 4: And then Vincent got a letter from his lawyer in 413 00:25:57,280 --> 00:26:00,480 Speaker 4: ninety eight saying that we've never seen these documents before. 414 00:26:00,920 --> 00:26:03,200 Speaker 4: You know, and by the way, that lawyer in ninety eight, 415 00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:05,159 Speaker 4: I think he was a judge by that point. I mean, 416 00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:08,200 Speaker 4: these are credible people that came forward and said that 417 00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:10,240 Speaker 4: they had never seen these documents before. 418 00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:13,879 Speaker 1: Right, this is the discovery with the details that we 419 00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:16,880 Speaker 1: mentioned earlier, that if Vincent's trial attorney would have had 420 00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:19,879 Speaker 1: this at the trial in nineteen seventy seven, and of 421 00:26:19,960 --> 00:26:22,159 Speaker 1: course it was totally illegal for them not to share it. 422 00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:25,840 Speaker 1: But if they had had this discovery, it's very possible 423 00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:30,200 Speaker 1: that even that jury could have come to the right conclusion. So, 424 00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:35,800 Speaker 1: in addition to that, more exculpatory evidence has developed over time. Meanwhile, 425 00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:40,359 Speaker 1: Vincent has denied parole again and again and again and again. 426 00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:44,520 Speaker 1: The sisters showed up at the parole hearings and said 427 00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:49,320 Speaker 1: all sorts of awful racist things. I remember seeing this 428 00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:51,280 Speaker 1: on the video and hearing about it on one occasion 429 00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:53,120 Speaker 1: where one of the three members of the pro board 430 00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:56,359 Speaker 1: was a black gentleman, and one of the sisters actually 431 00:26:56,440 --> 00:26:59,440 Speaker 1: said in the parole hearing that she wouldn't feel safe 432 00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:02,440 Speaker 1: alone in the room with him. And I'm talking about 433 00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:05,400 Speaker 1: the guy who was on the parole board, the black 434 00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:08,520 Speaker 1: guy on the parole board. Am I actually right about that? 435 00:27:08,960 --> 00:27:09,320 Speaker 1: You are? 436 00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:10,760 Speaker 4: You cannot make this sub. 437 00:27:10,920 --> 00:27:14,639 Speaker 1: So now we're all the way at October twenty twenty 438 00:27:14,840 --> 00:27:18,359 Speaker 1: and justin you've now joined Vincent's team, and Vincent has 439 00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:21,280 Speaker 1: applied for post conviction relief based on several due process 440 00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:24,560 Speaker 1: violations and newly discovered evidence which shows that the alleged 441 00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:28,080 Speaker 1: rape was a total fabrication, and that part of the 442 00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:31,119 Speaker 1: new evidence that was presented is from a family member 443 00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:34,400 Speaker 1: of the alleged victims themselves. Right, So can you tell 444 00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:34,879 Speaker 1: us about that? 445 00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:38,520 Speaker 4: Essentially, we have a family member of the the Boards 446 00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:42,920 Speaker 4: coming forward with a detailed statement about an admission that 447 00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:45,480 Speaker 4: Keith gave her. I think it was in twenty eleven, 448 00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:49,560 Speaker 4: twenty twelve, And actually what happened forty four years ago 449 00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:53,040 Speaker 4: was she was there when Keith came into her mother's 450 00:27:53,119 --> 00:27:55,879 Speaker 4: house and he had a scratch on his neck. And 451 00:27:56,080 --> 00:27:58,119 Speaker 4: it appears is that Keith is the first one that 452 00:27:58,280 --> 00:28:01,520 Speaker 4: drops the story that gets thrown in prison, which is 453 00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:03,760 Speaker 4: that you know, he gave a black man a ride 454 00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:07,280 Speaker 4: home with the girls and the black man scratched his neck, 455 00:28:07,320 --> 00:28:09,280 Speaker 4: threw him in the trunk, and raped the two girls. 456 00:28:09,600 --> 00:28:11,720 Speaker 4: See the problem with that, though, is if you talk 457 00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:15,639 Speaker 4: to this witness, she knows Keith Leboard. He's a total psycho. 458 00:28:16,119 --> 00:28:19,120 Speaker 4: Keith also, I believe I said twenty eleven, twenty twelve, 459 00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:22,240 Speaker 4: he admitted that there was no black man. We actually 460 00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:27,119 Speaker 4: have Facebook messages between Keith Leboard's first cousin and Karen, 461 00:28:27,520 --> 00:28:31,800 Speaker 4: where Karen admitted that Keith le Board raped her. Now 462 00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:35,280 Speaker 4: you have to understand this same cousin, Keith le Board, 463 00:28:35,359 --> 00:28:38,360 Speaker 4: actually admitted that he had what he termed to be 464 00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:41,960 Speaker 4: consensual sex with Karen and threw Sharon in the trunk. 465 00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:46,040 Speaker 4: So that's why Sharon Hymen is attack because Keith threw 466 00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:47,520 Speaker 4: her in the trunk because she didn't want to have 467 00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:50,320 Speaker 4: sex with him. But he definitely had sex with Karen. Now, 468 00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:52,880 Speaker 4: Karen says that it was a rape, Keith says it 469 00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:57,240 Speaker 4: was consensual sex. But at the time of the alleged 470 00:28:57,760 --> 00:29:01,240 Speaker 4: sexual act, Keith was an adult, Karen was a minor. 471 00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:01,880 Speaker 1: You know. 472 00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:05,480 Speaker 4: Then we have an investigative report from our investigator who 473 00:29:05,560 --> 00:29:07,800 Speaker 4: spoke to Karen where Karen said she might have made 474 00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:10,600 Speaker 4: a mistake, that she doesn't want to testify again in 475 00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:11,200 Speaker 4: this case. 476 00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:15,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think I need a shower. I mean, this 477 00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:20,040 Speaker 1: is even worse than I originally thought, which I didn't 478 00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:23,360 Speaker 1: think was possible. So where are we now? What in 479 00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:25,960 Speaker 1: the world is it going to take to bring Vincent Hope? 480 00:29:26,280 --> 00:29:28,680 Speaker 4: Where are we right now? We filed the motion to 481 00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:33,240 Speaker 4: vacate the conviction a post conviction relief motion in October 482 00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:37,600 Speaker 4: of twenty twenty. I mean there's Affid David's newly discovered evidence. 483 00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:42,880 Speaker 4: There's scientific reports in here, identification experts, doctors, obviously the 484 00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:46,880 Speaker 4: previous discovery that wasn't turned over when the motion was 485 00:29:46,920 --> 00:29:51,760 Speaker 4: initially filed, Carrie Sproul was the judge that was overseeing 486 00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:56,760 Speaker 4: the motion and Charles Riddle was the district attorney. And 487 00:29:57,680 --> 00:30:01,640 Speaker 4: essentially what happened is in more Arch of twenty twenty one, 488 00:30:01,720 --> 00:30:06,600 Speaker 4: I got my hands on a document where Carrie Sprool 489 00:30:06,760 --> 00:30:12,280 Speaker 4: admitted that he represented Keith Leboard's daughter in a previous 490 00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:14,720 Speaker 4: I don't know if it was a custody case or 491 00:30:14,760 --> 00:30:18,360 Speaker 4: a family court case. And so we had a hearing 492 00:30:18,520 --> 00:30:22,560 Speaker 4: to recuse Carrie Sprool, and in that hearing to recuse 493 00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:26,280 Speaker 4: Carrie Sprool, Carrie Sprool not only admitted that he had 494 00:30:26,360 --> 00:30:29,320 Speaker 4: represented Keith the Board's daughter, but also that he had 495 00:30:29,360 --> 00:30:33,360 Speaker 4: a close relationship with keithle Board since I guess almost childhood, 496 00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:37,120 Speaker 4: and actually hired Keith the Board to work on construction 497 00:30:37,280 --> 00:30:39,440 Speaker 4: projects in his house. So he had a long standing 498 00:30:39,520 --> 00:30:42,920 Speaker 4: relationship with Keith the Board and his family. And then 499 00:30:43,040 --> 00:30:46,120 Speaker 4: after that is when we had the motion to recuse 500 00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:50,440 Speaker 4: the District Attorney's office where we took testimony from Vincent's 501 00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:55,400 Speaker 4: trial attorney, Mike Kelly, where Mike Kelly testified at the 502 00:30:55,480 --> 00:31:00,960 Speaker 4: hearing that the defense received no discovery, not a document. 503 00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:03,240 Speaker 4: They didn't know there was a lineup, they didn't know 504 00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:06,400 Speaker 4: that there was original statements made, they didn't know anything. 505 00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:10,440 Speaker 4: We took testimony from a civil rights activist, Alan Holmes, 506 00:31:10,720 --> 00:31:14,280 Speaker 4: who heard Charles Riddle admit that Mike Kelly didn't receive discovery, 507 00:31:14,840 --> 00:31:18,000 Speaker 4: and then we took testimony from Charles Riddle himself, and 508 00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:22,239 Speaker 4: Charles Riddle admitted that he believed Mike Kelly when Mike 509 00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:25,280 Speaker 4: Kelly testified that they didn't have any of the discovery 510 00:31:25,320 --> 00:31:30,160 Speaker 4: in this case. That caused Judge Bennett to recuse Charles 511 00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:34,160 Speaker 4: Riddle because Charles Riddle refused to consent to give Vincent 512 00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:40,200 Speaker 4: Simmons a new trial. Essentially that Riddle was basically condoning 513 00:31:40,800 --> 00:31:44,520 Speaker 4: a constitutional violation right he knew that there was a 514 00:31:44,600 --> 00:31:48,600 Speaker 4: violation and refused to remedy it. And a prosecutor has 515 00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:51,480 Speaker 4: a duty to act fair and and partial, and his 516 00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:54,840 Speaker 4: duties are based upon the Constitution. He has to be 517 00:31:55,160 --> 00:31:57,840 Speaker 4: fair to the accused and when there's a due process 518 00:31:57,960 --> 00:32:00,800 Speaker 4: violation like there is in this case. The only way 519 00:32:00,840 --> 00:32:03,160 Speaker 4: he can remedy that is by giving Vincent another trial, 520 00:32:03,240 --> 00:32:05,320 Speaker 4: and he refused to do it. We now have an 521 00:32:05,320 --> 00:32:08,720 Speaker 4: Attorney General's office that's taken over. They're trying to vacate 522 00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:11,880 Speaker 4: the refusal of Charles Riddle. They're basically trying to delay 523 00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:14,840 Speaker 4: this as best as they can. No one wants to 524 00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:19,880 Speaker 4: give Vincent any relief here, and that's where we are 525 00:32:19,960 --> 00:32:22,480 Speaker 4: right now. We're in front of the Supreme Court battling 526 00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:25,080 Speaker 4: it out over the motion to recuse a district attorney, 527 00:32:25,600 --> 00:32:28,640 Speaker 4: and I'm in the process of filing something to try 528 00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:30,960 Speaker 4: to compel the court to do the right thing here. 529 00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:34,640 Speaker 1: After our release, Justin went to work on just that, 530 00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:36,479 Speaker 1: and back in January twenty two, I got a call 531 00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:40,000 Speaker 1: from Angola. It was Vincent thanking me and everyone here 532 00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:43,600 Speaker 1: at the Wrongful Conviction podcast, and I didn't know what 533 00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:46,479 Speaker 1: he was thanking us for. It turns out that at 534 00:32:46,520 --> 00:32:49,240 Speaker 1: some point between the original release in November twenty twenty 535 00:32:49,280 --> 00:32:53,200 Speaker 1: one and that January, Justin had won him a hearing 536 00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:56,440 Speaker 1: set for February fourteenth and twenty twenty two, in which 537 00:32:56,520 --> 00:32:59,880 Speaker 1: his motion for some rejudgment was to be decided. Either 538 00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:02,400 Speaker 1: the judge would rule against him or he'd be granted 539 00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:04,600 Speaker 1: a new trial, at which point the prosecutor would have 540 00:33:04,680 --> 00:33:07,120 Speaker 1: to decide whether or not to go forward with this case, 541 00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:12,560 Speaker 1: knowing what we know now, and Vincent had faith that 542 00:33:12,760 --> 00:33:18,080 Speaker 1: this would finally set him free. Now I'm ecstatic to 543 00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:23,719 Speaker 1: report that he was correct. Vincent, Welcome back to wrongful conviction. 544 00:33:24,680 --> 00:33:29,080 Speaker 1: You are so welcome. You know, words will never do 545 00:33:29,360 --> 00:33:33,000 Speaker 1: justice to this mixture of joy and anger that I 546 00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:36,560 Speaker 1: feel about your case. But right now, I'd like to 547 00:33:36,680 --> 00:33:40,400 Speaker 1: focus on that magical moment when you were set free. 548 00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:42,400 Speaker 1: You know, I saw footage of it. I wanted to 549 00:33:42,440 --> 00:33:44,640 Speaker 1: be there in person, but I couldn't, And I know 550 00:33:44,800 --> 00:33:47,480 Speaker 1: that you knew it was coming, But there was a 551 00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:51,160 Speaker 1: look of shock and surprise on your face. 552 00:33:51,920 --> 00:33:57,840 Speaker 9: Yes, even though I had this vision, when did manifesent man, 553 00:33:58,040 --> 00:34:04,080 Speaker 9: I was in shock free So you know I knew 554 00:34:04,160 --> 00:34:09,880 Speaker 9: that based on the evidence that they had ded and 555 00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:14,080 Speaker 9: look at the evidence that they have now, they had 556 00:34:14,239 --> 00:34:17,120 Speaker 9: nothing dead, nothing but. 557 00:34:17,239 --> 00:34:21,959 Speaker 6: The lines and then Boom. For a full year later, 558 00:34:22,719 --> 00:34:29,040 Speaker 6: the family come forward and Boom revealed new evidence of 559 00:34:29,200 --> 00:34:32,200 Speaker 6: what they had need all these years. 560 00:34:32,880 --> 00:34:35,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean not only that cousin who had come 561 00:34:35,160 --> 00:34:39,080 Speaker 1: forward talking about Keith Lebboord, all of those damning messages 562 00:34:39,160 --> 00:34:42,120 Speaker 1: that we had already discussed on the podcast, not to 563 00:34:42,320 --> 00:34:45,439 Speaker 1: mention that there was no discovery at all in this case. 564 00:34:46,400 --> 00:34:48,960 Speaker 1: Let me say that again, there was no discovery at all. 565 00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:52,719 Speaker 1: Nothing was turned over to the defense, and all of 566 00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:54,600 Speaker 1: the things that could have been turned over and should 567 00:34:54,640 --> 00:34:58,480 Speaker 1: have been turned over in discovery were exculpatory. Then, the 568 00:34:58,560 --> 00:35:03,520 Speaker 1: two alleged victims accusers in your case, Sharon and Karen Sanders, 569 00:35:03,640 --> 00:35:06,800 Speaker 1: went on CBS and had no good answers to explain 570 00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:11,760 Speaker 1: the wild inconsistencies in their statements. Among others, to explain 571 00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:15,680 Speaker 1: the inconsistency about when they knew your name and that 572 00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:19,000 Speaker 1: they had actually known it all along, they had said 573 00:35:19,160 --> 00:35:22,480 Speaker 1: that they had made a pack to not say your name, 574 00:35:23,400 --> 00:35:28,000 Speaker 1: which is total horseshit. After they had identified you in 575 00:35:28,080 --> 00:35:31,120 Speaker 1: the lineup, they still didn't know your name in those 576 00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:37,400 Speaker 1: statements either, which totally contradicted themselves. Again, they also admitted 577 00:35:37,480 --> 00:35:40,160 Speaker 1: to the racist comments that one of the sisters had said, 578 00:35:40,360 --> 00:35:45,200 Speaker 1: quote unquote, all n words look alike, and how could 579 00:35:45,239 --> 00:35:48,399 Speaker 1: they even have identified you anyway? If that was the case, right, 580 00:35:48,520 --> 00:35:51,480 Speaker 1: I mean, there's another direct contradiction there, and let alone 581 00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:54,560 Speaker 1: that you didn't even fit their bogus description that they 582 00:35:54,600 --> 00:35:58,640 Speaker 1: had made up out of thin air. This case is madness. 583 00:35:59,200 --> 00:36:02,600 Speaker 1: And in addition, Karen Sanders also admitted to a sexual 584 00:36:02,680 --> 00:36:09,040 Speaker 1: relationship with Keith Leboard, starting as early as nine years old. Man, 585 00:36:09,640 --> 00:36:13,359 Speaker 1: I mean I was watching that my job. I hit 586 00:36:13,400 --> 00:36:16,360 Speaker 1: the floor. You were simply dragged into their web with 587 00:36:16,480 --> 00:36:20,040 Speaker 1: sadness and lies, with neither probable cause nor having fit 588 00:36:20,200 --> 00:36:24,120 Speaker 1: any description other than just being a black man. Your 589 00:36:24,200 --> 00:36:26,480 Speaker 1: case is about as disgusting as any we've ever heard. 590 00:36:27,080 --> 00:36:30,680 Speaker 1: So with all of this floating in the zeitgeist, along 591 00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:34,120 Speaker 1: with the mountain of Brady material, the judge finally set 592 00:36:34,200 --> 00:36:38,279 Speaker 1: you free after over forty four years in prison and 593 00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:41,600 Speaker 1: you were reunited with your family. Can you take us 594 00:36:41,680 --> 00:36:44,040 Speaker 1: back to that night? Where'd you go? 595 00:36:44,640 --> 00:36:45,200 Speaker 5: What did you do? 596 00:36:46,200 --> 00:36:46,399 Speaker 7: Well? 597 00:36:47,600 --> 00:36:51,120 Speaker 9: I was taken all by my family and missed the 598 00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:56,040 Speaker 9: bonus to a restaurant, you know, a real expensive restaurant, 599 00:36:57,000 --> 00:37:01,200 Speaker 9: and I'm looking around, said wow, you know, and. 600 00:37:01,719 --> 00:37:05,440 Speaker 6: You ask me what I wanted to eat? That's said everything. 601 00:37:06,239 --> 00:37:06,719 Speaker 1: Everything. 602 00:37:08,120 --> 00:37:12,040 Speaker 6: I won't eat everything, So you know, we had lovely meal. 603 00:37:12,600 --> 00:37:15,360 Speaker 6: We talked, we laughed, we joked. 604 00:37:15,800 --> 00:37:21,000 Speaker 9: That moment is very special. It's very special. You know, 605 00:37:21,320 --> 00:37:25,960 Speaker 9: that chills, you know, travel to your body, all the. 606 00:37:26,080 --> 00:37:31,080 Speaker 6: Love and hugs and kisses and all that. 607 00:37:32,880 --> 00:37:37,160 Speaker 9: It brought a warmth to me of something special that 608 00:37:37,440 --> 00:37:41,839 Speaker 9: was missing when you're coming out of somewhere where you've 609 00:37:41,880 --> 00:37:46,920 Speaker 9: been kidnapped and held against your will for forty four years. 610 00:37:47,680 --> 00:37:52,200 Speaker 9: I value that, you know. You know it's hard because 611 00:37:52,800 --> 00:37:57,719 Speaker 9: I got to relearn everything. You know, but it don't 612 00:37:57,840 --> 00:38:01,720 Speaker 9: it doesn't stop us from thinking, you know, it doesn't 613 00:38:01,760 --> 00:38:05,399 Speaker 9: stop us from living, and it doesn't stop me from 614 00:38:05,520 --> 00:38:10,279 Speaker 9: doing the right things to freedom minds, you know, to 615 00:38:11,040 --> 00:38:15,680 Speaker 9: show them that, you know, we we have to value ourselves, 616 00:38:16,640 --> 00:38:19,840 Speaker 9: you know, you have. You can't love somebody if you 617 00:38:19,920 --> 00:38:22,719 Speaker 9: don't value who you are, if you don't love yourself, 618 00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:26,600 Speaker 9: you know, and you come first, and then you know, 619 00:38:26,800 --> 00:38:30,759 Speaker 9: you show compassion and love to others. You know just 620 00:38:30,960 --> 00:38:36,000 Speaker 9: what our journis are, you know, our duties for being 621 00:38:36,160 --> 00:38:39,120 Speaker 9: here on itar, you know, is to get people to 622 00:38:39,280 --> 00:38:42,520 Speaker 9: understand God law, hey man, get them laws in you man. 623 00:38:43,080 --> 00:38:45,759 Speaker 9: You know what I'm saying. Whatever God, you believe that, 624 00:38:46,000 --> 00:38:49,560 Speaker 9: you know every wouldn't have a duty to each other 625 00:38:50,440 --> 00:38:53,960 Speaker 9: as humanity, you know, But yet we fighting each other. 626 00:38:54,080 --> 00:38:58,800 Speaker 9: Why I'm here to deliver that message. I'm gonna fight it. 627 00:38:58,880 --> 00:39:01,240 Speaker 9: I'm gonna fight it. I'm not gonna go along. 628 00:39:02,400 --> 00:39:02,560 Speaker 4: You know. 629 00:39:02,640 --> 00:39:04,600 Speaker 6: I'm not gonna be around. I'm not gonna turn a 630 00:39:04,680 --> 00:39:07,080 Speaker 6: blind eye to the truth. 631 00:39:10,160 --> 00:39:13,600 Speaker 9: And that's what I'm fighting for. I have a big 632 00:39:13,800 --> 00:39:18,800 Speaker 9: family that I live beyond black and white. I'm fighting 633 00:39:18,880 --> 00:39:23,720 Speaker 9: for us. What we do, what we here for justice? 634 00:39:24,680 --> 00:39:28,279 Speaker 9: You know, we here the correct That's what your job is. 635 00:39:28,920 --> 00:39:32,800 Speaker 9: Your report what's going on, you know, to the public, 636 00:39:32,960 --> 00:39:33,600 Speaker 9: to the people. 637 00:39:34,640 --> 00:39:37,320 Speaker 1: I love you, man, We love you too, Vincent. And 638 00:39:37,600 --> 00:39:40,239 Speaker 1: you know, all I can do is to continue to 639 00:39:40,280 --> 00:39:43,080 Speaker 1: shine a light on these injustices and help to be 640 00:39:43,920 --> 00:39:46,800 Speaker 1: part of the team that works to correct them wherever 641 00:39:47,200 --> 00:39:49,080 Speaker 1: and whenever I have the power to do so. And 642 00:39:49,840 --> 00:39:52,839 Speaker 1: without you sharing your story, well we wouldn't be able 643 00:39:52,920 --> 00:39:55,680 Speaker 1: to do that here. So I'd like to just thank 644 00:39:55,800 --> 00:40:00,439 Speaker 1: you for on behalf of everyone that works on our team, 645 00:40:01,400 --> 00:40:04,480 Speaker 1: for joining us and sharing your story. And then I'm 646 00:40:04,520 --> 00:40:06,680 Speaker 1: gonna turn to the closing of our show where I 647 00:40:06,920 --> 00:40:10,839 Speaker 1: turned my microphone off, leave my headphones on, kick back 648 00:40:10,880 --> 00:40:14,239 Speaker 1: in my chair and just listen to any final messages 649 00:40:14,280 --> 00:40:14,680 Speaker 1: that you have. 650 00:40:15,640 --> 00:40:20,880 Speaker 6: You know, I'm gonna give it to the people. I 651 00:40:21,160 --> 00:40:21,560 Speaker 6: learned it. 652 00:40:21,920 --> 00:40:25,040 Speaker 8: I learned it hardly. You know, I'm gonna give it 653 00:40:25,160 --> 00:40:31,000 Speaker 8: to everybody. Row your way is the only way I'm 654 00:40:31,080 --> 00:40:35,480 Speaker 8: fighting for the people. We're trying to fix a system 655 00:40:36,320 --> 00:40:39,719 Speaker 8: that is broken based on racism. 656 00:40:41,040 --> 00:40:45,239 Speaker 6: Don't say that racism though, it's because it do and 657 00:40:45,600 --> 00:40:47,360 Speaker 6: everybody don't want to deal with it. 658 00:40:48,040 --> 00:40:48,440 Speaker 8: Why not? 659 00:40:51,040 --> 00:40:51,800 Speaker 1: You know they. 660 00:40:51,800 --> 00:40:56,920 Speaker 8: Judges and prosecutor using the shield or distinct. 661 00:40:58,120 --> 00:40:59,920 Speaker 6: To do criminal activity. 662 00:41:00,160 --> 00:41:04,160 Speaker 9: Is you make all kinds of laws saying that you 663 00:41:04,280 --> 00:41:07,640 Speaker 9: know will against this and will against that, but you 664 00:41:07,880 --> 00:41:09,120 Speaker 9: ain't punishing them. 665 00:41:11,120 --> 00:41:14,600 Speaker 8: They don't have a law by the constitution that say 666 00:41:14,680 --> 00:41:16,120 Speaker 8: that the prosecutor. 667 00:41:16,480 --> 00:41:17,200 Speaker 3: I can use my. 668 00:41:17,440 --> 00:41:22,200 Speaker 8: Influence to intimidate other people to say what I want 669 00:41:22,239 --> 00:41:25,359 Speaker 8: them to say, and if they don't say it, then 670 00:41:25,480 --> 00:41:27,000 Speaker 8: I'm gonna send them to prison. 671 00:41:27,280 --> 00:41:33,080 Speaker 6: I'm gonna punish them. No, who are you you human 672 00:41:33,320 --> 00:41:33,920 Speaker 6: like I am? 673 00:41:34,640 --> 00:41:39,440 Speaker 8: You represent the people, and when you miss you your authorities. 674 00:41:39,880 --> 00:41:45,080 Speaker 8: You're supposed to be pitilized by the people that goes 675 00:41:45,160 --> 00:41:46,240 Speaker 8: for judgesus. 676 00:41:46,480 --> 00:41:51,480 Speaker 6: Lawyers, d is whoever you may be you're a human. 677 00:41:53,120 --> 00:41:59,640 Speaker 9: And you suppot to act humanly, use your powers wisely. 678 00:42:06,719 --> 00:42:09,719 Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to Wrongful Conviction. I'd like to 679 00:42:09,800 --> 00:42:13,560 Speaker 1: thank our production team Connor Hall, Justin Golden, Jeff Cliburn, 680 00:42:13,600 --> 00:42:17,000 Speaker 1: and Kevin Wardis, with research by Lyla Robinson. The music 681 00:42:17,040 --> 00:42:19,800 Speaker 1: in this production was supplied by three time OSCAR nominated 682 00:42:19,840 --> 00:42:23,480 Speaker 1: composer Jay Ralph. Be sure to follow us on Instagram 683 00:42:23,600 --> 00:42:27,800 Speaker 1: at Wrongful Conviction, on Facebook at Wrongful Conviction Podcast, and 684 00:42:28,000 --> 00:42:31,040 Speaker 1: on Twitter at wrong Conviction, as well as at Lava 685 00:42:31,120 --> 00:42:34,280 Speaker 1: for Good. On all three platforms, you can also follow 686 00:42:34,400 --> 00:42:37,919 Speaker 1: me on both TikTok and Instagram at it's Jason Flam. 687 00:42:38,239 --> 00:42:41,000 Speaker 1: Wrongful Conviction is the production of Lava for Good podcast 688 00:42:41,080 --> 00:42:43,319 Speaker 1: and association with Signal Company Number one