Speaker 1: You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer on
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Radio. Alright, so some say it could be the
Speaker 1: next generation of CBD. We're talking about synthetic cant of annoids.
Speaker 1: Hopefully I'm saying that right, can of anoids. Yeah, uh.
Speaker 1: And I think it's interesting. It's coming on a day
Speaker 1: where Charlie has been mentioning that headline about Tilray in Afria.
Speaker 1: It advanced merger talks that coming from our being in
Speaker 1: Bloomberg TV team. So we're seeing once again some activity
Speaker 1: when it comes to kind of the overall cannabis industry.
Speaker 1: But right now we want to talk a little bit
Speaker 1: more about synthetic cannabinoids. Several companies are pursuing just that,
Speaker 1: creating them cannabinoids that are engineered actually in a lab.
Speaker 1: And one company that is doing that is Biomedican, which
Speaker 1: notes on its website that it is already producing pharmaceutical
Speaker 1: grade organic, non GMO rear count of annoids. And here
Speaker 1: to talk about it is Max mckeef. He is co founder, CEO,
Speaker 1: chief science officer at the biotech startup Biomedicn and he
Speaker 1: joins us on the phone from Fremont California. Max, nice
Speaker 1: to have you here with us. How are you and
Speaker 1: tell us about the work that you guys are doing. Girl,
Speaker 1: thank you for inviting for this call for this interview.
Speaker 1: So which is correct you mentioned that we allocated in
Speaker 1: California for a month. I only want to get some
Speaker 1: provide some qualification that synthetic it's not an exactly correct
Speaker 1: name for kind of knoweds which we have producing because
Speaker 1: usually when people discussion synthetics, they usually taking account chemical synthegies.
Speaker 1: Chemical synergies are providing of course similar structure, but not
Speaker 1: always identical. One of the most famous example of um
Speaker 1: issues which chemical synergies or can provide it is, you know,
Speaker 1: is a mirror. So basically it's when you have the
Speaker 1: same amount of atoms, but they are rotated in space
Speaker 1: a little bit differently. The most famous example here is
Speaker 1: trans fats. So basically, as you know, uh, fifteen years
Speaker 1: ago UH passion excratergenated oils and trans fats was commonly
Speaker 1: used in food industry, and like fifteen years ago, it
Speaker 1: was completely forbidden by FG to use for human consumption.
Speaker 1: So the problem is that exactly in stereo structure, what
Speaker 1: we are doing we are we're using biosynthies by a
Speaker 1: synthesis providing exactly same structure, exactly same maleco got is
Speaker 1: present in plants in nature. So that's why I would
Speaker 1: really separate synthetic from biosynthesis. So so in other words,
Speaker 1: so you know, comparing it with um, you know something
Speaker 1: that isn't synthetic naturally occurring. You're saying that you're using
Speaker 1: biosynthesis to create exactly the same molecular structure, but you're
Speaker 1: just doing this in a lab, right, Yes, yes, it
Speaker 1: is absolutely connect So where are you in this process?
Speaker 1: And I'm curious, um, you know, talk to me a
Speaker 1: little bit about you know, where you are, um in
Speaker 1: terms of getting products out to market. Mhm. So we'll
Speaker 1: already develop a several strains which can produce a kind
Speaker 1: of any very high yield. Right now, we're preparing for
Speaker 1: pilot scale production, which you plan to start shortly. And
Speaker 1: once we'll have pilot scale, you'll start providing samples to
Speaker 1: potential customers and basically the next step after least will
Speaker 1: be of course scaling up for life scale production. So
Speaker 1: most likely will go initially contact manufunctional organizations to full
Speaker 1: life scale production. So wait wait, let me just max,
Speaker 1: let me just jump in. So, who will be who
Speaker 1: will be purchased in this? Is this the same as
Speaker 1: you know the CBD markets that we spend so much
Speaker 1: time talking about here at Bloomberg and certainly we've got
Speaker 1: a bunch of publicly health companies who will be buying this. Yes,
Speaker 1: our target customers is the company which you're producing right
Speaker 1: now should be deep products and similar for end users.
Speaker 1: So and basically they can just use our compounds and
Speaker 1: adds to their formulation directly so cure they usually buy
Speaker 1: and should be deep from growers and from from extraction
Speaker 1: using extraction from plants. Same, absolutely same. We could provide
Speaker 1: them our compounds which they can use an identical way.
Speaker 1: They will be able to add to the ittabiles, uh whites, cosmetics, anything. So,
Speaker 1: so what's the advantage of going your way? Is it
Speaker 1: just a more controlled production able to ramp up more
Speaker 1: easily and you know, tell me what the advantage is
Speaker 1: over kind of naturally occurring CBD. Um Again, I want
Speaker 1: to clarified that we are not talking in at least
Speaker 1: initially CpG. We want to partner your company with companies
Speaker 1: who is producing CpG now and sell it, so we
Speaker 1: tig it and rend of knowledge. We're talking like CBG
Speaker 1: which present much low concentration and plants compared to CpG.
Speaker 1: We also tried in KHTV and we're tared it in
Speaker 1: some other kind of annoyance. That's an example. We in
Speaker 1: August the file pattern for production of watching new class
Speaker 1: of kind of ainoyance. It's called Chris UHB is Gonna
Speaker 1: ben it. So the only serial mentioned about this cannabino
Speaker 1: ledge in in uh literature. So it was found in
Speaker 1: Champan in the cannabis, but nobody studied them yet actually
Speaker 1: made a really important distinction. That's synthetic can often mean chemical,
Speaker 1: and that's not exactly what you guys are doing. That
Speaker 1: is not at all what you're doing. You use biosynthesis,
Speaker 1: which as we know, happens uh you know, naturally in
Speaker 1: nature to create um cannabinoids with the same molecular structure
Speaker 1: with the other thing. That's interesting and I don't think
Speaker 1: people know and we're still learning about kind of the
Speaker 1: cannabis market and industry in general. There are more than
Speaker 1: a hundred different types of cannabinoids in cannabis, and you're
Speaker 1: going after some of those that aren't already out in
Speaker 1: the marketplace, Is that correct? It just connect so we're
Speaker 1: talative for example, like TV, it's coming to markets up
Speaker 1: and has a huge potential. It's for example, has antiam UH,
Speaker 1: it'scause uh neuroprotective etet and it has uddusition appetizi etect.
Speaker 1: So it's can be used as an example to wasve
Speaker 1: control and eppetize control and take again like neuroprotective and help.
Speaker 1: What's neuroprotect to? Explained that to me if you would
Speaker 1: UM in some works pretty in the works not on
Speaker 1: human studies who were shown that CD potential can help
Speaker 1: against again and Parkinson. It's not tested on humans yet,
Speaker 1: but it was tested in some animal models. So this
Speaker 1: tell me a little bit thought too about the regulatory oversight.
Speaker 1: I think this is something that we were trying to
Speaker 1: get control of and understanding of, certainly for the existing
Speaker 1: cannabis UH industry. I mean there's you know, the monetary
Speaker 1: issues that have to be dealt with, but I do
Speaker 1: also think about UM, you know, transparency in the market
Speaker 1: that every cannabis product, whether it's a CBD product, and
Speaker 1: I know you're doing something differently, you know there aren't
Speaker 1: necessarily standards like you have when they're you know, in
Speaker 1: something that's organic, Um, there are standards. So what will
Speaker 1: be the oversight? What will be the standards so that
Speaker 1: consumers really understand becase I'm assuming this would be over
Speaker 1: the counter products, is that correct? Or would it be
Speaker 1: on the same level as pharmaceutical type products. I would
Speaker 1: argued in both markets because like of course I know
Speaker 1: it's it's mostly will go to pharmaceutical markets, but like CBN,
Speaker 1: it's going to regular customers market. So on regulatory side,
Speaker 1: we have a really interesting position because a technically legal
Speaker 1: on federal level even now, even almost for all our compounds.
Speaker 1: It's because on federal regulations there are two lines in
Speaker 1: Schedule one. One is marijuana products and marijuana products defined
Speaker 1: as anything what produced from marijuana plants. We're using easts
Speaker 1: and it is not plans, so we are not marijuana product.
Speaker 1: And the second line is KCC is a psychoactive canna
Speaker 1: be know it and it's more to use for recreational purpose.
Speaker 1: Th HCV is that what you said? I just want
Speaker 1: to make sure. Yeah, okay, DELTA and KHD it's mostly
Speaker 1: used for occasional purpose. And it's like her active. So
Speaker 1: typically is we cannot produce JC. We cannot produce JC
Speaker 1: isn't in California because California legalized marijuana products but didn't
Speaker 1: legalize JC. So, but all other econominoids is completely legal
Speaker 1: for us. For example, we can produce CpG, it will
Speaker 1: be legal on your level. CTV also will be legal
Speaker 1: on your level, CBN, and many others. So we cannot
Speaker 1: produce only one. We cannot produce KC. Okay, that's interesting
Speaker 1: to know. So, UM just got about a minute or
Speaker 1: so left here. Um, the market size that you anticipated,
Speaker 1: what's the plans for your company? Do you anticipate UM
Speaker 1: linking up with a major brand that we already know
Speaker 1: some of these companies, whether it's a pharmaceutical company or
Speaker 1: whether it's a consumer product company. Is that how you're
Speaker 1: going to do it or do you plan to kind
Speaker 1: of do it alone and potentially go private? What's the
Speaker 1: plan here? And just got about a minute left. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you're absolutely right. You're planning go through partnership with famous
Speaker 1: brands and pharmaceutical companies. We're not planning to stop our
Speaker 1: own brand. We don't take experience in our team police.
Speaker 1: We prefer to concentrate on science and production and are
Speaker 1: there any partnerships there well known brands that you can
Speaker 1: talk about that you're working with right now. We have
Speaker 1: a recent science serial partnership and some of them was
Speaker 1: public unknownced um and we're working on multiple hours, but
Speaker 1: like can not disclose all of them. So yes, we
Speaker 1: work and be looking for partners were open for uh partnerships, Okay,
Speaker 1: all right, and that makes sense in terms of how
Speaker 1: you're going to do it? Well, Max, certainly, um let
Speaker 1: us know how things are going, because this is certainly
Speaker 1: a new mark it or newer market, uh, and certainly
Speaker 1: a kind of a continuation of one that started just
Speaker 1: a few years ago. So it'll be interesting to see
Speaker 1: where it goes. Max mckefe. He is co founder, CEO,
Speaker 1: and chief science officer at the biotech startup Biomedic and
Speaker 1: joining us on the phone from California. Go to Bloomberg
Speaker 1: dot com because our own Tiffany Carey wrote a story
Speaker 1: a couple of months ago, back in October that was
Speaker 1: talking how the race is on for synthetic count of
Speaker 1: anoids and as Max told you, uh, they're not all
Speaker 1: the same. But it's interesting, Uh, this exploration for alternative
Speaker 1: compounds that have really been set off by the CBD craze,
Speaker 1: so certainly something that is on our radar and certainly
Speaker 1: on the radar of investors.