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Speaker 1: This program features the individual opinions of the hosts, guests,

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Speaker 1: and callers, and not necessarily those of the producer, the station,

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Speaker 1: it's affiliates or sponsors. This is True Crime Tonight.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to True Crime Tonight an iHeartRadio. We're talking true

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Speaker 2: crime all the time. It's Monday, April sixth, and guess

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Speaker 2: what we have a sack knight of headlines. A new

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Speaker 2: suspect connected to the infamous Texas killing fields. Body's been

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Speaker 2: following us very very closely. Big development here. Plus actress

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Speaker 2: Melissa Gilbert. Remember her husband has been taken into custody

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Speaker 2: and released on sexual abuse charges, Timothy Bussfield. She is

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Speaker 2: speaking out for the very first time. And also this

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Speaker 2: Blake Lively case, we haven't spoken much about it in

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Speaker 2: a while, but she has taken a big blow. Still

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Speaker 2: going at it with Justin Baldoni, so we will unpack that. Also,

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Speaker 2: there's a new development in the missing UFO colonel.

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Speaker 3: Remember the colonel who went missing.

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Speaker 2: His wife is speaking out and again it's one of

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Speaker 2: those things.

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Speaker 3: Where is he? And also we might not.

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Speaker 2: Get to this tonight, but if we if we don't,

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Speaker 2: we will tomorrow. This one taste cult have you guys

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Speaker 2: heard about this, yeah, kind of this big influencers cult

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Speaker 2: and isn't it at some point, Yes, a lot of

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Speaker 2: different people were speaking to it. So and it's going

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Speaker 2: down and there's been some serious sentencing in that as well.

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Speaker 2: So we'll be unpacking that. I'm Stephanie Leidecker here as

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Speaker 2: always with Courtney Armstrong and Body Move In. We of

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Speaker 2: course have producer Taha and Sam and Adam as well.

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Speaker 3: Ladies, Happy Monday, Happy.

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Speaker 2: Heavy Monday, Happy Monday Monday, and Happy Springsday.

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Speaker 3: Yes, you were feeling it right with this one.

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Speaker 2: Tremendous, tremendous efforts around the moon. Oh my goodness, these astronauts.

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Speaker 4: It's incredible. And I was, you know, I was down

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Speaker 4: the rabbit hole of all the little girls and whatnot

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Speaker 4: watching and oh, just it just gave me a lot

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Speaker 4: of hope for humanity something I really really needed, you

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Speaker 4: know what I mean, I really needed this hope. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: so I just I just had.

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Speaker 3: I loved it.

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Speaker 4: And then so the commander right, his wife passed away,

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Speaker 4: young beautiful Carol.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 4: They get up there and they have the opportunity to

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Speaker 4: name two craters that are unnamed, and they dedicated one to.

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Speaker 3: Carol and named it Carol, and I started crying. Oh

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Speaker 3: my god, it's so beautiful, and.

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Speaker 4: It was such a beautiful moment, it really was.

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Speaker 3: Can we play it, let's play clip. It's so moving.

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Speaker 5: There's a there's a feature in a really neat place

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Speaker 5: on the Moon and it is on the near side,

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Speaker 5: far side of boundary. In fact, it's just on the

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Speaker 5: near side of that boundary, and so it's certain times

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Speaker 5: of the moons transit around Earth. You can we will

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Speaker 5: be able to see this from Earth. And so we

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Speaker 5: lost a loved one. Our name was Carol. They're supposed

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Speaker 5: to read the mother of Katie and Ellie. And if

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Speaker 5: you want to find this one, you look at Glusto

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Speaker 5: and it's just to the northwest of that, at the

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Speaker 5: same latitude as home, and it's a it's a bright

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Speaker 5: spot on the moon and we would like to call

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Speaker 5: it Carol. And you spell that c A r r

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Speaker 5: oh Kallol.

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Speaker 3: I love in his voice. Name Ken.

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Speaker 2: There's such voyagers and adventures and so brave, and there's

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Speaker 2: such a mixed bag. It's like the perfect selection of

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Speaker 2: human beings male female, all yes, world's colliding in the

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Speaker 2: most beautiful way in the most out of this world way.

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Speaker 3: Congratulations. This inspiring.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, you set a record today for the farthest human

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Speaker 4: has ever traveled univ It's incredible. I love all that

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Speaker 4: space stuff. So it was just a really good day today.

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Speaker 4: I hope you guys had a good day too.

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Speaker 3: We did, we did, we did. So listen, we should

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Speaker 3: just just right in.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, the Texass Texas story, right, I oh my goodness. Okay,

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Speaker 4: so this is a really complicated story, but it's one

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Speaker 4: that needs to be told. Okay, So there's been a

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Speaker 4: really major breakthrough in the decades old I mean decades.

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Speaker 4: This goes back to the seventies Texas Killing Fields murders,

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Speaker 4: as a grand jury has indicted James Dolph Elmo's Elmore Junior.

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Speaker 4: He's sixty one years old now. And again, this is

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Speaker 4: more than four decades after the killings that he's been

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Speaker 4: indicted for. The Texas Killing killed or Texas Killing Fields.

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Speaker 4: It refers to a stretch along Interstate forty five southeast

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Speaker 4: of Houston, and listen, they found thirty four bodies. This strategy,

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Speaker 4: it reminds me a little bit of Gilgo Beach. Right,

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Speaker 4: There's this long stretch and these bodies have been discovered

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Speaker 4: since the early seventies, and despite decades of investigations by

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Speaker 4: local law enforcement and a lot of key commitment and

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Speaker 4: you know, even the FBI, most of the murderers have

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Speaker 4: remained unsolved, with the area described as an ideal place

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Speaker 4: to get away with killing due to its you know,

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Speaker 4: severe isolation. So this all began in the seventies, Okay,

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Speaker 4: this is how it began. And the bodies of young

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Speaker 4: women and girls, they have mostly arranged in age from

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Speaker 4: like twelve to twenty five, they started appearing these bodies,

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Speaker 4: and investigators quickly realized this wasn't the work of just

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Speaker 4: one killer, but it was like multiple predators that were

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Speaker 4: operating in the same region, possibly taking advantage of, you know,

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Speaker 4: the remoteness of it all. So a remote twenty five

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Speaker 4: acre field near Calder Road in League City became notorious

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Speaker 4: dumping ground, isolated enough that perpetrators could act without fear

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Speaker 4: being caught.

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Speaker 6: Okay.

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Speaker 4: And there's this thing called the League's City cluster. Okay,

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Speaker 4: So they found a cluster of bodies, okay, And there

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Speaker 4: were four victims. And this happened in nineteen eighty three

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Speaker 4: to nineteen ninety one. There were four victims Laura Miller. Okay,

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Speaker 4: so Laura Miller, she's sixteen years old and her father

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Speaker 4: is Her father is Tim Miller. If you don't know

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Speaker 4: who Tim Miller is, he founded Texas Equi sarch. Okay,

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Speaker 4: in Texas Equasearch, every true crime person knows who they are.

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Speaker 4: Every missing person that goes missing, they are on horseback looking,

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Speaker 4: they will travel, they have equipment, They are experts in

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Speaker 4: the field. I mean, Tim Miller is an incredible human.

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Speaker 4: He became obsessed with finding justice for his daughter right

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Speaker 4: and he never did so he found this Texas equ Search,

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Speaker 4: which helps locate missing persons across the country. Okay, so

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Speaker 4: these four victims, Laura Miller, I'm sorry, Corney, please you look.

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Speaker 3: At I was gonna say, what a beautiful testament A

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Speaker 3: a father's love and b you know, taking unimaginable hurt,

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Speaker 3: pain and loss and turning it into such good.

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Speaker 4: That's all such good one hundred percent. So these four

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Speaker 4: victims in this League City cluster, Laura Miller sixteen, Audrey Kirk,

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Speaker 4: Audrey Cook thirty, Heidi Phi Villarial she was twenty five,

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Speaker 4: and Donna proud Home she was thirty four. They were

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Speaker 4: all found in this field.

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Speaker 3: Okay.

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Speaker 4: Again, Tim Miller becomes obsessed with finding justice. Okay, to help,

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Speaker 4: you know, find out Okay. So there's a primary suspect.

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Speaker 4: His name is Clyde, Hendrick or Hedric.

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Speaker 3: Okay.

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Speaker 4: So in nineteen eighty five, Ellen Beeson, she's another young

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Speaker 4: woman and she was killed in her late her case

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Speaker 4: later becomes key in connecting Clyde to the broader pattern

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Speaker 4: of these killings. Okay. In nineteen eighty six. A year later,

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Speaker 4: Clyde was convict did of abuse of a course, placing

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Speaker 4: him directly in the circle of these crimes. Okay. Now,

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Speaker 4: investigators believe that Clyde was the main actor in the

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Speaker 4: League City cluster.

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Speaker 3: Okay, So.

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Speaker 2: The actor meaning killer like that this is this is well,

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Speaker 2: but they do believe that he's got help.

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Speaker 4: Okay, they don't believe he's working alone. Okay, evidence does

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Speaker 4: suggest he has some help. So fast forward to twenty thirteen.

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Speaker 4: I mean, how many years is that? Seventeen years? I

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Speaker 4: don't know, it's a long time.

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Speaker 7: No, twenty years.

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Speaker 4: He's convicted of manslaughter for that Ellen Beeson woman.

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Speaker 3: Okay.

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Speaker 4: In twenty twenty two, he's released on parole. He's released

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Speaker 4: on parole and he died by suicide in twenty twenty six.

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Speaker 4: All right, now, they suspected he had involvement in other murders,

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Speaker 4: but they could never really tie it in. But his

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Speaker 4: best friend is Jane Dolph Elmore Junior, which is the

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Speaker 4: guy that was just indicted his best friend. So I

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Speaker 4: had to tell that all that to get to this part.

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Speaker 4: So sorry, I understand. Okay, So he's a longtime friend

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Speaker 4: of Clyde and he listen, you know I told you

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Speaker 4: Tim Miller's kind of obsessed with getting justice. Well, James,

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Speaker 4: he repeatedly contacts Tim Miller. He inserts himself into the investigation,

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Speaker 4: and he starts sharing non public case details.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 4: You know how we always talk the track, right, you

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Speaker 4: know how we always talk about well like Nancy Guthrie, Right,

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Speaker 4: like what do they know? We don't know what they

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Speaker 4: don't know because they're not telling us. There's a reason

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Speaker 4: they don't let this stuff out, right, Well, this guy,

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Speaker 4: James knew some of those things. How did he know

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Speaker 4: some of those things unless he was there? Right, So

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Speaker 4: he starts sharing some non public case details with Tim Miller,

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Speaker 4: and he met with Tim Miller twenty to thirty times.

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Speaker 4: I mean this guy is like kind of obsessed, right,

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Speaker 4: So in twenty twenty four, Galveston County they launched a

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Speaker 4: task force targeting both Clyde Hendrick, the guy who killed himself,

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Speaker 4: and this guy, the accomplice, James Dolph's Elmore. Right, and

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Speaker 4: they have indicted him for manslaughter for Laura Miller, the

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Speaker 4: daughter of Tim Miller. Oh wow, yep, and evidence tampering,

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Speaker 4: evidence tampering with Laura Miller and one of the other girls,

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Speaker 4: Audrey Cook. So prosecutors are alleging that James Dolph's Elmore

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Speaker 4: might have helped Clyde dispose of bodies or participate in killings.

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Speaker 3: Wow, oh my gosh. Listen, if you are just joining us,

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Speaker 3: this is true crime tonight and we are talking about

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Speaker 3: the major breakthrough that just happened in the decades old

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Speaker 3: Texas killing fields. We'd love to hear your thoughts on

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Speaker 3: this case. Eighted eight three one crime or hit us

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Speaker 3: up on the talkbacks. As always, body, this is fantastic

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Speaker 3: stick So what else do I mean?

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Speaker 4: That's about it, right now, That's about it. I mean, listen,

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Speaker 4: I kind of went through all that information very quickly,

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Speaker 4: but I mean, this is like a complicated web. I mean,

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Speaker 4: we're definitely going to be following it. He was just indicted,

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Speaker 4: so there's going to be What that means is that

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Speaker 4: they found enough evidence to proceed with the trial. Okay,

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Speaker 4: so they found enough as evidence to proceed with a trial,

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Speaker 4: and we're gonna we're gonna obviously stay tuned to see

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Speaker 4: what happens in this trial of this guy who's been

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Speaker 4: connected to these murders. But there's still thirty something murders unsolved.

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Speaker 4: But again they think that this Clyde guy, the guy

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Speaker 4: who killed himself who was convicted of you know, manslaughter

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Speaker 4: and abuse of corpse and all that they think he

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Speaker 4: was tied to this Ellen Beson person. And again he

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Speaker 4: died by suicide before the indictment of any other murders,

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Speaker 4: and it left a lot of you know, questions that

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Speaker 4: were unanswered, although prosecutors have maintained he likely killed all.

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Speaker 8: Of the League City cluster victims. I mean, this is unbelievable.

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Speaker 8: If that's true, then is it possible that they're building

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Speaker 8: a case, a bigger case. And now after Lisk, the

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Speaker 8: Long Island serial killer, was indicted, they added more murders.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 2: I was just thinking that this reminds me of the

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Speaker 2: Long Island serial Killer.

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Speaker 4: It does me too a little bit, because you know,

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Speaker 4: it's this desolate area along the highway, in a remote area,

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Speaker 4: and they're finding all these bodies popping up, you know,

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Speaker 4: over the course of decades, just like Lisk, right, So

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Speaker 4: it's possible that they're going to I mean, listen, I

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Speaker 4: don't know, but I'm on the lookout for them to

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Speaker 4: indict not only for Laura Miller and Audrey Cook, but

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Speaker 4: Heidi fi Villariel and Donna Pratdhom who were also League

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Speaker 4: City Cluster victims. So those are that therefore out of

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Speaker 4: thirty something that they that they need to indict for.

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Speaker 2: But that now we are in serial mode, so that

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Speaker 2: is really studying and important developments will follow that closely.

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Speaker 2: It does remind me, you know, the Long Island serial Killer.

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Speaker 2: We were anticipating having real information about whether or not

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Speaker 2: he was going to plead out in the coming days,

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Speaker 2: and it doesn't appear that there have been any big

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Speaker 2: developments there.

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Speaker 4: We're still waiting for that because they did say what

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Speaker 4: would happened within the month, and so we still got

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Speaker 4: a couple of weeks to you know, Apparently the prosecutor

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Speaker 4: for the Long Island serial killer reached out to some

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Speaker 4: of the family members.

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Speaker 7: That's right.

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Speaker 4: Of course, they went to the press about it, so

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Speaker 4: we don't know yet. But I mean, I'm very excited

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Speaker 4: for this new indictment. And you know, we often talk

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Speaker 4: about cases and wanting to know all the details, what

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Speaker 4: did the police know and whatnot? And I think this

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Speaker 4: is a really shining example of why.

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Speaker 3: We don't know, right, because there's very good.

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Speaker 4: Point they just don't share the nightstalker cases like a

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Speaker 4: if you guys don't know the night stalker case, I mean,

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Speaker 4: I don't know where you're at in life. But it's

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Speaker 4: so nice, superate case Richard Ramirez. You know, they kept

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Speaker 4: the shoe print very very secret, that he was wearing

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Speaker 4: these very specific shoes, and they kept it secret and

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Speaker 4: it accidentally got out and Dianne Feinstein, who was the

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Speaker 4: mayor of San Francisco at the time, did a press

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Speaker 4: conference because there was a killing up there, and she

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Speaker 4: said the shoe print and it ruined this inside information

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Speaker 4: that only the killer and the police know.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 4: So when you have somebody like James Dolph Elmore sharing

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Speaker 4: inside non public case details like these things that the

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Speaker 4: police keep you know, hidden their you know, close to

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Speaker 4: their chest. It's a very telling thing because these aren't

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Speaker 4: things that the public know. I just I'm just so

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Speaker 4: happy for Tim Miller, and you know, he's been finding

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Speaker 4: a very very long time and he has helped so

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Speaker 4: many families across this country. Listen, everybody deserves justice. Everybody

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Speaker 4: deserves justice. But I feel like this is just a

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Speaker 4: really I don't know, it's just it's bittersweet, obviously, but

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Speaker 4: it makes me feel very happy for Timmeller and his

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Speaker 4: family that they're right some clues.

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Speaker 3: That must be some feeling. To know that he met

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Speaker 3: with this guy who's now been indicted on he did

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Speaker 3: thirty times. That's uh wow, hard to wrap my brain

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Speaker 3: around how that might feel. Just so complicated.

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Speaker 4: Absolutely, I mean, he met him with this guy was

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Speaker 4: obsessed with the case apparently, So yeah.

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Speaker 2: Isn't that a bit of a red flag? Just the

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Speaker 2: general obsession with a case of.

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Speaker 3: Course, super common. Well, listen, keep it here. Melissa Gilbert.

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Speaker 3: She is standing by her husband Timothy Bussfield amid a

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Speaker 3: bunch of child abuse charges and Blake Lively's legal battle

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Speaker 3: took a major turn after key claims are thrown out

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Speaker 3: that and a whole lot more. Keep it here True

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Speaker 3: Crime Tonight.

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Speaker 2: Welcome back to True Crime Tonight and iHeart Radio. We're

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Speaker 2: talking true crime all the time. I'm Stephanie Leidecker here

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Speaker 2: with Courtney Armstrong and Body Move In. We hope you

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Speaker 2: guys had a beautiful holiday and welcome back. So Timothy Bussfield,

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Speaker 2: you'll remember he is the director and actor from all

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Speaker 2: of those eighties shows, your favorite Ladies, The West Wing

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Speaker 2: for example. If you will remember, he has gray hair now,

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Speaker 2: but I guess I should say silver hair, but it

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Speaker 2: was red back in the day. So that's what he's

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Speaker 2: most recognizable for. And he's been arrested on sexual abuse charges.

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Speaker 2: He's also been released and is out on bail, and

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Speaker 2: his wife, Melissa Gilbert Half Pint from Little housein the Prairie,

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Speaker 2: is speaking out and has done so for the first

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Speaker 2: time today. So court what do you think.

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Speaker 3: A man? And I think there's a lot of emotions

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Speaker 3: in this one, and I have to say I'm glad

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Speaker 3: Melissa Gilbert got a lot of what was she was

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Speaker 3: holding in off of her chests. But yeah, Timothy Busfield,

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Speaker 3: if you guys remember it was back in January of

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Speaker 3: this year when he actually there was a warrant issued

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Speaker 3: for his arrest. It was on January ninth, and that

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Speaker 3: was for being sexually inappropriate with two young boys who

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Speaker 3: were in a film he was directing. And even this

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Speaker 3: whole thing started out strange because again the warrant was

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Speaker 3: issued on January ninth of this year. He surrendered four

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Speaker 3: days later after driving from him and Melissa.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, the Marsham missing for a hot moment, that's correct.

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Speaker 2: You would think he would turn himself in via airplane perhaps, right.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, but no. But since January, Melissa Gilbert, his wife,

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Speaker 3: has been mom except for the letter that she wrote

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Speaker 3: sort of pleading the judge for leniency. But she appeared

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Speaker 3: on Good Morning America and she absolutely and vehemently defended

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Speaker 3: Timothy Bussfield, and it was said one of the things

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Speaker 3: she said was our life as we know it is done.

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Speaker 3: We're grieving what we had. All our plans, our dreams,

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Speaker 3: all our ideas, our projects. For tim it's done. He's canceled,

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Speaker 3: even if he is exonerated, and he will always be

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Speaker 3: that guy.

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Speaker 2: By the way, She's right, you know she's right, But

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Speaker 2: just to jump in though she hasn't exactly been silent.

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Speaker 2: She's pretty active on social media, I might add me

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Speaker 2: so we were talking about this last time. She's really

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Speaker 2: present on social media, which I know this is not

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Speaker 2: even an assessment.

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Speaker 3: This is a terrible spot for her to be.

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Speaker 7: In no doubt.

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Speaker 2: She gave this interview to George Stephanopolis on Good Morning America,

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Speaker 2: and one thing that I thought was interesting she was

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Speaker 2: there with her lawyer and she's essentially speaking out because

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Speaker 2: it's time like she's heard all of the misinformation and

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Speaker 2: she vehemently stands by her husband. However, she was aware

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Speaker 2: of a previous charge that he was brought up on

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Speaker 2: years prior prior to them getting together. She knew about it,

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Speaker 2: she read about it on the internet. She questioned him

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Speaker 2: about it, and the answers were good for her, and

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Speaker 2: she felt as though she was completely equipped going into

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Speaker 2: this marriage and now here she is again after these allegations.

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Speaker 2: Also important to note the twins that are at the

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Speaker 2: center of this were also let go from the show,

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Speaker 2: and somebody was overheard allegedly saying, oh, or the parents say,

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Speaker 2: if the boys get cut, I'm going to get back

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Speaker 2: at Tim Buzzfield.

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Speaker 7: I'm kind of.

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Speaker 2: Paraphrasing, so that maybe that there was some revenge from

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Speaker 2: mom and dad to get back at the director who

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Speaker 2: somehow got their kids fired. Okay, And the other layer

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Speaker 2: to that was there was another allegation that those said

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Speaker 2: parents made against somebody else at some point, like there

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Speaker 2: was other litigation going on. I kind of remember that

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Speaker 2: being a thing. But regardless, there are these multiple suits,

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Speaker 2: So imagine what do you do in this situation.

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Speaker 3: Well, I mean, you know, Melissa, like you said, she

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Speaker 3: said that she heard everything and this includes the multiple

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Speaker 3: incidents you're talking about they did back to nineteen Nights

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Speaker 3: Crazy Making. Yeah, And with that, it was a seventeen

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Speaker 3: year old extra on another set who accused Timothy Bussfield

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Speaker 3: of assault, groping, and attempted sex in a trailer. She

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Speaker 3: was seventeen. Interestingly, Timothy Bussfield denied wrongdoing and countersuit for extortion,

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Speaker 3: which is sort of what they're alleging against these twins now.

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Speaker 3: And Timothy Bussfield lost that countersuit and the matter is settled.

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Speaker 2: And ultimately he had to make a financial settlement I

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Speaker 2: believe for this person or to this person at that time.

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Speaker 7: So it's two sides Frankly, we don't know the answer.

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Speaker 2: Is Melissa Gilbert, you know, America's sweetheart, you know, being

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Speaker 2: bamboozled by this scoundrel who has this you know history.

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Speaker 7: We're connecting dots.

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Speaker 2: Maybe this guy's a secret predator or does was she

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Speaker 2: complacent or is she completely naive to this all together?

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Speaker 2: And is like I love this man and I know

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Speaker 2: it in my bones.

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Speaker 3: He's not capable of this. Listen, love will make it

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Speaker 3: do crazy things. What do you do?

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Speaker 4: Allegations in California at that Sacramento playhouse and his father

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Speaker 4: confronted him and he said, exactly, we'll go to therapy,

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Speaker 4: and the father, who's a therapist, was like, okay.

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Speaker 7: Like.

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Speaker 4: In my opinion, I mean, and it's just you know,

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Speaker 4: and one thing that Melissa Gilbert said, she said, I

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Speaker 4: need to make something abundantly clear, and then she went

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Speaker 4: on to say, these allegations have been out for a

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Speaker 4: very long time. When Tim and I got together, the

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Speaker 4: internet existed. I didn't go into my relationship blind.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 4: When people say I need to make something abundantly clear,

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Speaker 4: doesn't that seem like performative to you?

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Speaker 6: Yeah?

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Speaker 3: You know that's a.

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Speaker 2: Fair point, yes, Or is she's just sick of hearing

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Speaker 2: the same redundant thought.

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Speaker 7: I mean, I've said this, I've.

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Speaker 2: Very possible, and I'm like, woman, listen, that is a

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Speaker 2: very big red flag. So listen up, ladies and gentlemen.

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Speaker 2: This is a very large red flag. So if you're

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Speaker 2: meeting somebody, even if you feel all this love and

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Speaker 2: they have some you know, Facocta history, it's something to

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Speaker 2: not put a blind eye to. Because in her case,

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Speaker 2: now she's crazy in love and she's standing by her man.

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Speaker 2: She's got to be online all the time selling cake

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Speaker 2: because probably it's very expensive. This is a lot of

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Speaker 2: legal stuff going on right now. And you know baby talk, yeah,

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Speaker 2: the way she talks, right, But they have to get

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Speaker 2: an author living.

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Speaker 7: Are they living together?

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Speaker 2: We don't know this, but he's been released on bail

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Speaker 2: and they're like, yes, this day in.

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Speaker 3: The air Mexico.

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Speaker 2: They're in like an airbnb. Yeah, according to report use,

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Speaker 2: I don't know where they're recording. Maybe it's an airbnb,

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Speaker 2: or maybe they're in separate locations.

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Speaker 6: They could be. They could be.

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Speaker 9: And part of his probation is he can't have contact

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Speaker 9: with any of the alleged victims. He can't possess fire

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Speaker 9: all season on supervised visits. But going back to the

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Speaker 9: videos that she's been doing, is there, you know, I'm

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Speaker 9: trying to look at it from her side. Maybe there's

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Speaker 9: a world where this is her emotional outlet, like this

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Speaker 9: is my one way, like I can make double a

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Speaker 9: and keep in touch with my fans.

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Speaker 6: Or I'm just trying to think.

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Speaker 2: Why she might stillizing a little extra compartmentalizing. It's a

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Speaker 2: little so compartmentalizing that it's it's a little unsettling, right,

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Speaker 2: So yes, I think she would have to say, like, listen,

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Speaker 2: I don't know what it is that hits weird to me,

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Speaker 2: and it's the optics.

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Speaker 6: It's just not the time to be out in the world.

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Speaker 7: And again, this is not a judgment.

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Speaker 2: This is a very unique spot this woman is finding

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Speaker 2: herself in.

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Speaker 7: You know, think about it.

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Speaker 2: What would you do, by the way, I don't know

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Speaker 2: what you do in that scenario other than run.

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Speaker 3: And it appears that she's not running.

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Speaker 4: No, she's by her man.

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Speaker 3: The timing of another, the timing of another of another

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Speaker 3: accusation I thought was very interesting. So the pair Timothy

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Speaker 3: Busfield Melissa Gilbert. They got married in twenty thirteen. In

437
00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:57,560
Speaker 3: twenty twelve, there was another allegation. It was a twenty

438
00:24:57,600 --> 00:25:00,520
Speaker 3: eight year old woman. She accused Timothy bu us Field

439
00:25:00,560 --> 00:25:04,080
Speaker 3: of inappropriately touching her in a movie theater. Now the

440
00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:07,960
Speaker 3: charge charges were not filed. That was due to insufficient evidence,

441
00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:14,200
Speaker 3: and Timothy Bussfield said the contact was consensual. Just alls.

442
00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:17,360
Speaker 4: Also just a year before they got married. Were they

443
00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:18,080
Speaker 4: together at the.

444
00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:24,040
Speaker 3: Time, Yeah, it's interesting time. I have no knowledge of

445
00:25:24,119 --> 00:25:27,480
Speaker 3: what their relationship or agreement or anything else is. But

446
00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:31,760
Speaker 3: the best case scenario is that there was consensual groping

447
00:25:32,240 --> 00:25:34,040
Speaker 3: in a movie theater with a twenty eight year old

448
00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:40,480
Speaker 3: I don't know, nasty, Yeah, body just made identical.

449
00:25:40,560 --> 00:25:43,119
Speaker 9: It is, I know, And I tried so hard to

450
00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:46,320
Speaker 9: say middle round it and think like, you know, I

451
00:25:46,359 --> 00:25:47,200
Speaker 9: don't know how many.

452
00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:49,560
Speaker 6: Celebrity types or directors.

453
00:25:49,080 --> 00:25:52,439
Speaker 9: Have unusual allegations that come in their direction because they

454
00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:53,119
Speaker 9: have a lot of money.

455
00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:55,800
Speaker 6: So I'm still trying to be neutral and saying, is there.

456
00:25:55,640 --> 00:25:57,159
Speaker 9: A world where a lot of these are people who

457
00:25:57,200 --> 00:25:58,880
Speaker 9: are trying to get money out of the scenario.

458
00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:01,840
Speaker 6: But I'm not completely sold.

459
00:26:02,480 --> 00:26:05,560
Speaker 2: This many times is a hard one to assume that

460
00:26:05,560 --> 00:26:06,879
Speaker 2: that could possibly happen.

461
00:26:07,359 --> 00:26:08,359
Speaker 7: My goodness.

462
00:26:09,359 --> 00:26:11,840
Speaker 4: Listen, this is true Crime tonight. We're on iHeartRadio. I'm

463
00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:15,680
Speaker 4: body moving them here with Stephanie Leidecker and Courtney Armstrong.

464
00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:18,199
Speaker 4: We're joined by producer of Taha House and Sam and

465
00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:19,840
Speaker 4: Adam on the boards. Give us a call eighty eight

466
00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:22,760
Speaker 4: thirty one Crime, or download the iHeartRadio app and leave

467
00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:24,440
Speaker 4: us a little talk back and boom you'll be on

468
00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:27,720
Speaker 4: the show. And court I know there's some Stephanie is

469
00:26:27,720 --> 00:26:28,920
Speaker 4: like crawling out of her skin.

470
00:26:29,040 --> 00:26:30,200
Speaker 3: She will talk to that.

471
00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:32,200
Speaker 7: She just did that crack of the neck.

472
00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:33,320
Speaker 3: Did you just see her do that?

473
00:26:33,359 --> 00:26:36,359
Speaker 4: She's like.

474
00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:39,520
Speaker 3: She's going to go into a bar fight right now.

475
00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:40,880
Speaker 3: Did you see that?

476
00:26:41,040 --> 00:26:45,000
Speaker 2: Like her head like turned around on its skull the Exorcist?

477
00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:47,000
Speaker 7: Oh, the kind of and it cracks.

478
00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:47,800
Speaker 3: It's so loud.

479
00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:50,520
Speaker 2: I feel it, and so I feel it all right,

480
00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:54,480
Speaker 2: I feel it. Still, Sorry for this, I want to

481
00:26:54,480 --> 00:26:56,600
Speaker 2: talk about that. Yes, that's what she's getting in the

482
00:26:56,640 --> 00:26:59,400
Speaker 2: ring about, right.

483
00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:04,920
Speaker 3: So Blake Lively. She's spoken out very recently, and this

484
00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:08,360
Speaker 3: is after a federal judge has dismissed her sexual harassment

485
00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:16,600
Speaker 3: claims against actor and director Justin Baldoni. It's massive news

486
00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:20,000
Speaker 3: and if you guys, remember this whole case started back

487
00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:24,040
Speaker 3: in twenty twenty four, Blake Lively did a movie with

488
00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:26,720
Speaker 3: Justin Baldoni, who was both the lead actor and the

489
00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:30,280
Speaker 3: director of the film. It was called It Ends with Us.

490
00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:37,640
Speaker 3: Lively made allegations against Justin Baldoni, and she claimed sexual harassment,

491
00:27:38,840 --> 00:27:44,160
Speaker 3: and then Justin Belldoni allegedly later ran a digital smear

492
00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:48,720
Speaker 3: campaign against her after she raised these concerns about safety

493
00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:54,879
Speaker 3: on set. Well, the judge has dismissed ten of Blake

494
00:27:54,920 --> 00:28:01,160
Speaker 3: Lively's thirteen claims, including all sexual harassment and defamation charges

495
00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:03,720
Speaker 3: against Justin Baldoni personally.

496
00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:08,199
Speaker 2: Which is pretty major, right. So, you know, this is

497
00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:10,560
Speaker 2: a story we've been covering kind of since day one.

498
00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:13,360
Speaker 2: I feel like, to me, it's the first time we've

499
00:28:13,359 --> 00:28:17,320
Speaker 2: ever really heard about a smear campaign and actually the

500
00:28:17,359 --> 00:28:20,800
Speaker 2: inner workings of what happens when people have kind of

501
00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:24,320
Speaker 2: a brand to protect and just to go down memory lane,

502
00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:28,040
Speaker 2: Justin Baldoni is a director who is backed by a

503
00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:31,160
Speaker 2: very big company with a lot of money deep pockets,

504
00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:35,800
Speaker 2: and he gets the IP for this very famous book

505
00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:38,960
Speaker 2: and is going to direct and start in it and

506
00:28:39,040 --> 00:28:43,440
Speaker 2: needs to attach a very important actress and der Blake Lively,

507
00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:47,880
Speaker 2: who we all love, beautiful, that long, beautiful hair, and

508
00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:50,840
Speaker 2: she's been in many things. Gossip Girl come on and

509
00:28:51,280 --> 00:28:55,640
Speaker 2: they start to do this really beloved adaptation of this

510
00:28:55,720 --> 00:29:00,000
Speaker 2: book series about you know, domestic violence. It's very nuanced,

511
00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:03,720
Speaker 2: it's very layered, and it's really beloved. And their love

512
00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:08,320
Speaker 2: story in this is like a complicated one. Well, Blake

513
00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:12,080
Speaker 2: has these allegations, and the other side of that is

514
00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:17,160
Speaker 2: some say that Blake was kind of exaggerating these allegations

515
00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:19,880
Speaker 2: because she wanted to get this movie and that she

516
00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:20,920
Speaker 2: was stepping.

517
00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:22,560
Speaker 7: In doing rewrites and directing it.

518
00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:25,800
Speaker 2: And basically this was a way of her getting her

519
00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:29,080
Speaker 2: air quote clause into the project.

520
00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:34,760
Speaker 3: So that's the two sides, right, A fair assessment, Yeah, yeah,

521
00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:39,520
Speaker 3: I think so. I think so absolutely. And the remaining

522
00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:44,680
Speaker 3: claims interestingly remain they target wayfair the studios with the

523
00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:48,880
Speaker 3: deep pockets you mentioned, as well as some other entities,

524
00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:53,360
Speaker 3: and really they're focused on retaliation again the spear campaign

525
00:29:53,440 --> 00:29:57,880
Speaker 3: and breach of contract. But this I find really interesting

526
00:29:57,920 --> 00:30:01,440
Speaker 3: and actually something we might even ask Prosecutor Jarrett Farantino

527
00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:06,200
Speaker 3: later in the week. So some of the dismissed claims,

528
00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:11,840
Speaker 3: including all the sexual harassment ones. Apparently they were dropped

529
00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:16,400
Speaker 3: due to legal technicalities, and that consists of Blake Lively

530
00:30:16,520 --> 00:30:20,920
Speaker 3: being considered an independent contractor rather than an employee. And

531
00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:26,000
Speaker 3: that's the point her attorney's highlighted. And I feel like

532
00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:29,400
Speaker 3: if that is the case, like I don't know, I

533
00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:33,960
Speaker 3: feel like almost it's her attorney highlighting this to make

534
00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:37,560
Speaker 3: it seem like a technicality more than it is. But well,

535
00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:40,400
Speaker 3: doesn't this whole case just feel like because it's not

536
00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:43,280
Speaker 3: just throwing money at this right now? So and when

537
00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:46,160
Speaker 3: we say pr what that really means is, Hey, I

538
00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:50,440
Speaker 3: want to seem like America's sweetheart who's had some sort

539
00:30:50,480 --> 00:30:55,200
Speaker 3: of maybe this is my moment in some universe. Being

540
00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:58,640
Speaker 3: a victim is a means of being empathetic.

541
00:30:58,800 --> 00:31:01,080
Speaker 2: This is the accusation. I'm not saying that this is

542
00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:06,680
Speaker 2: what happened, and that's big money. That's the argument against Blake.

543
00:31:07,320 --> 00:31:09,560
Speaker 2: And she's saying, what are you talking about? This was

544
00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:13,400
Speaker 2: my experience and because I made an announcement about it,

545
00:31:13,840 --> 00:31:16,760
Speaker 2: these guys threw a bunch of money out of making

546
00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:19,720
Speaker 2: me look bad and it also tarnished my brand.

547
00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:24,960
Speaker 3: And that's where we are real time, right, Yeah, Yeah, yeah,

548
00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:25,920
Speaker 3: that sounds about right.

549
00:31:26,280 --> 00:31:28,800
Speaker 2: Listen if you want to join us live eight eight

550
00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:31,600
Speaker 2: eight three one crime, we'd love to hear from you.

551
00:31:32,040 --> 00:31:36,280
Speaker 2: We're just talking about Blake Lively and Justin Baldoni and

552
00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:40,080
Speaker 2: seemingly this case that will never end and we hadn't

553
00:31:40,120 --> 00:31:42,000
Speaker 2: heard too much about it, and boyd does it seem

554
00:31:42,080 --> 00:31:46,360
Speaker 2: like such a waste of resources or is Blake Lively

555
00:31:46,520 --> 00:31:47,680
Speaker 2: just getting a bad rap?

556
00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:52,080
Speaker 3: Well, she spoke out, and what she said was that

557
00:31:52,160 --> 00:31:55,080
Speaker 3: the court still allowed the quote heart of my case

558
00:31:55,120 --> 00:31:57,600
Speaker 3: to go to a jury and frame it, and she

559
00:31:57,680 --> 00:31:59,959
Speaker 3: framed it as a fight against a system that punished

560
00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:05,760
Speaker 3: as people who speak out on Baldoni's and he said

561
00:32:06,040 --> 00:32:10,960
Speaker 3: he and Wayfair the company, were very pleased and noted

562
00:32:11,040 --> 00:32:15,360
Speaker 3: correctly that the case is now significantly narrowed. There is

563
00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:17,960
Speaker 3: going to be Jerry selection. It's set for next month

564
00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:21,200
Speaker 3: and it does focus on those remaining claims of the retaliation,

565
00:32:22,080 --> 00:32:25,239
Speaker 3: the aiding and a betting of retaliation as well as

566
00:32:25,280 --> 00:32:26,720
Speaker 3: breach of contract.

567
00:32:27,720 --> 00:32:28,960
Speaker 7: And it's you know.

568
00:32:28,880 --> 00:32:30,920
Speaker 2: We were talking about this a little bit before air

569
00:32:31,080 --> 00:32:34,040
Speaker 2: Courtney and you know, jump in, but I think the

570
00:32:34,080 --> 00:32:37,520
Speaker 2: debate is interesting. So there are certain instances where Blake

571
00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:40,880
Speaker 2: Lively was in her trailer at the time, she was

572
00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:45,480
Speaker 2: a new mother and was still breastfeeding. I anecdotically remember

573
00:32:45,520 --> 00:32:48,440
Speaker 2: those times and it's you know, not easy, and that

574
00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:51,800
Speaker 2: she had been you know, she felt very uncomfortable because

575
00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:55,400
Speaker 2: he came in power phrasing that, you know, while she

576
00:32:55,520 --> 00:32:57,719
Speaker 2: was breastfeeding and an inappropriate manner.

577
00:32:58,360 --> 00:32:59,400
Speaker 7: And then on the.

578
00:32:59,320 --> 00:33:03,920
Speaker 2: Flip of that, he had texts that basically said, she said,

579
00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:08,080
Speaker 2: I'm breastfeeding, come on in, which would kind of contradict

580
00:33:08,280 --> 00:33:11,360
Speaker 2: her story. But then Courtney made a very good point.

581
00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:13,720
Speaker 2: Go ahead, Courtney, correct, right.

582
00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:16,320
Speaker 3: Both things may have happened, and it's the same as

583
00:33:16,360 --> 00:33:19,040
Speaker 3: if you make out with a guy on a Tuesday,

584
00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:22,440
Speaker 3: doesn't mean you have to on Wednesday. That's right, you

585
00:33:22,480 --> 00:33:26,040
Speaker 3: can you know, circumstance was a really good Yeah, that's true.

586
00:33:26,160 --> 00:33:29,960
Speaker 3: That's true, So, you know, contradictory or different mood, all

587
00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:32,040
Speaker 3: of all of it can be true.

588
00:33:33,240 --> 00:33:36,160
Speaker 2: What an exhaustive amount of time and money though, that

589
00:33:36,200 --> 00:33:39,160
Speaker 2: has gone into this case that is ultimately a smear campaign,

590
00:33:39,560 --> 00:33:42,640
Speaker 2: and this smear campaign is real dollars as well. That

591
00:33:42,680 --> 00:33:46,120
Speaker 2: would imply that they have influencers who are being played,

592
00:33:46,160 --> 00:33:50,959
Speaker 2: you know, paid to basically talk poorly about a person

593
00:33:51,360 --> 00:33:55,640
Speaker 2: or the other route, right, So that's big business now, allegedly,

594
00:33:55,720 --> 00:33:57,640
Speaker 2: And I think that was the inner workings that we

595
00:33:57,640 --> 00:33:59,320
Speaker 2: were so taken by.

596
00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:02,160
Speaker 4: You know, I think we're going to start seeing this

597
00:34:02,320 --> 00:34:05,440
Speaker 4: like these these influencers weigh in on these things, these

598
00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:10,080
Speaker 4: paid influencers, even on true crime cases. It's coming, right

599
00:34:10,560 --> 00:34:13,760
Speaker 4: because listen, if you control a narrative, right the public

600
00:34:13,880 --> 00:34:18,319
Speaker 4: outcry on a case, you can really I don't think

601
00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:21,640
Speaker 4: you can find game education, but you can change the

602
00:34:21,640 --> 00:34:23,760
Speaker 4: way that the police operate with the public.

603
00:34:23,960 --> 00:34:24,160
Speaker 6: Right.

604
00:34:24,239 --> 00:34:24,880
Speaker 7: Yeah, it's true.

605
00:34:24,960 --> 00:34:28,200
Speaker 4: I think that this is the writing is on the wall.

606
00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:30,279
Speaker 4: I think we're seeing it with Nancy Guthrie right now,

607
00:34:31,640 --> 00:34:34,560
Speaker 4: these true crime influencers and influencers. You know, we had

608
00:34:34,600 --> 00:34:37,920
Speaker 4: the in Diddy, they had paid influencers talking about the

609
00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:41,080
Speaker 4: case and how Diddy was innocent. I mean, this is

610
00:34:41,120 --> 00:34:43,279
Speaker 4: the first true of many I think to come.

611
00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:46,360
Speaker 2: I really do, and I think people are getting wise

612
00:34:46,440 --> 00:34:48,480
Speaker 2: to it, right, So it doesn't know, I fear that

613
00:34:48,520 --> 00:34:51,080
Speaker 2: it's working so so well. But even the fact that

614
00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:53,920
Speaker 2: we now know that that happens, I know that sounds

615
00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:56,640
Speaker 2: so naive, but I don't know that I really believed

616
00:34:57,160 --> 00:35:01,360
Speaker 2: that Ryan Reynolds or Blake Lively needed to stoop to

617
00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:05,360
Speaker 2: that level in any circumstance, right, or if you're pulled

618
00:35:05,360 --> 00:35:10,120
Speaker 2: into that if your air quotes opponent according to them,

619
00:35:10,320 --> 00:35:13,520
Speaker 2: If somebody's trying to smear your name, is it really

620
00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:16,279
Speaker 2: you or is it the PR person who's working on

621
00:35:16,360 --> 00:35:19,360
Speaker 2: your behalf? What if they're just the ones playing dirty?

622
00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:20,840
Speaker 7: Are you on the hook?

623
00:35:21,280 --> 00:35:25,000
Speaker 3: I mean and then and then and then it's messy

624
00:35:25,120 --> 00:35:25,920
Speaker 3: and expensive?

625
00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:31,000
Speaker 2: Why is this attention not being put more toward Epstein files,

626
00:35:31,160 --> 00:35:31,640
Speaker 2: et cetera?

627
00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:32,880
Speaker 3: Like what is.

628
00:35:32,880 --> 00:35:33,879
Speaker 7: It happening right now?

629
00:35:34,520 --> 00:35:38,600
Speaker 4: Different people want me different, different even quurts right, Like

630
00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:41,239
Speaker 4: it's different. So I don't know, we'll have to see.

631
00:35:41,320 --> 00:35:42,759
Speaker 4: I'm I'm interested to see it.

632
00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:43,080
Speaker 3: Listen.

633
00:35:43,120 --> 00:35:45,359
Speaker 4: I want to see this trial. I fell asleep last

634
00:35:45,440 --> 00:35:47,440
Speaker 4: night to the Amberherd and Johnny Deptrell. I don't know

635
00:35:47,480 --> 00:35:50,440
Speaker 4: why it was on, but it was, And like I

636
00:35:50,520 --> 00:35:52,719
Speaker 4: was thinking about this about God, I wonder if we're

637
00:35:52,719 --> 00:35:55,480
Speaker 4: going to see Blake Livey and Justin Baldoni in this

638
00:35:55,600 --> 00:35:59,239
Speaker 4: like public hearing where you know, all you all the

639
00:35:59,280 --> 00:36:01,279
Speaker 4: dirt was there. I mean, I don't know about you guys,

640
00:36:01,280 --> 00:36:03,680
Speaker 4: but I was hooked on that, so, well.

641
00:36:03,600 --> 00:36:04,920
Speaker 7: That's the big ticket item.

642
00:36:05,080 --> 00:36:07,719
Speaker 2: Is like Taylor Swift going to be pulled into where

643
00:36:07,719 --> 00:36:11,919
Speaker 2: I will Gigi headded. Remember this was the brack pack

644
00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:14,239
Speaker 2: of our time, right, These were the girls that were

645
00:36:14,239 --> 00:36:18,040
Speaker 2: the girls that you know, I speak for myself, that

646
00:36:18,160 --> 00:36:20,719
Speaker 2: I admire and I think they're so beautiful and I

647
00:36:20,800 --> 00:36:23,440
Speaker 2: love the music and hook Line and sinker Baby.

648
00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:26,160
Speaker 3: So for me, it's like add them to the list.

649
00:36:26,200 --> 00:36:30,200
Speaker 2: If this is un untrue, if you know there's like

650
00:36:30,360 --> 00:36:35,840
Speaker 2: mean girls involved, I don't like it. Or if in fact,

651
00:36:36,160 --> 00:36:39,440
Speaker 2: you know Blake Lively has been one hundred percent forthright

652
00:36:39,520 --> 00:36:43,000
Speaker 2: this whole time and just speaking from herself and it

653
00:36:43,080 --> 00:36:46,080
Speaker 2: is a victim, then this has also been a huge niss.

654
00:36:46,160 --> 00:36:49,200
Speaker 2: There's like, no, there's no happy ending here.

655
00:36:50,040 --> 00:36:52,320
Speaker 4: No, well, I mean the only happy ending really, I

656
00:36:52,360 --> 00:36:55,480
Speaker 4: think is a trial in the public. All the others

657
00:36:55,560 --> 00:36:59,240
Speaker 4: as shown and you know, listen to the public and decide.

658
00:36:59,160 --> 00:37:03,359
Speaker 2: Right, what do you make sure a Renol's start. Yeah,

659
00:37:03,400 --> 00:37:06,400
Speaker 2: what's the Ryan Reynolds piece to this? Is there a

660
00:37:06,480 --> 00:37:09,840
Speaker 2: possibility that maybe this kind of went haywire because of

661
00:37:09,880 --> 00:37:13,000
Speaker 2: the big names involved. Is it possible my working theory

662
00:37:13,600 --> 00:37:16,759
Speaker 2: controversial one? I might add I think blake Lively had

663
00:37:16,800 --> 00:37:19,719
Speaker 2: just had a baby. She had had just had her

664
00:37:19,800 --> 00:37:22,840
Speaker 2: third or her fourth child, right, and had to go

665
00:37:22,960 --> 00:37:26,520
Speaker 2: back to work very very quickly. And this, you know,

666
00:37:26,640 --> 00:37:29,960
Speaker 2: darn Hollywood will will make you feel crazy because you

667
00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:33,160
Speaker 2: have to be a certain size or a certain way

668
00:37:33,239 --> 00:37:35,400
Speaker 2: to be in the movies. And she was probably losing

669
00:37:35,440 --> 00:37:37,120
Speaker 2: her mind. I remember when I had to go back

670
00:37:37,120 --> 00:37:40,319
Speaker 2: to work. I surprised, I was losing my mind just

671
00:37:40,320 --> 00:37:43,520
Speaker 2: getting into pants. So now imagine you have to be

672
00:37:43,560 --> 00:37:46,040
Speaker 2: a movie star. And like, maybe that had kind of

673
00:37:46,080 --> 00:37:48,480
Speaker 2: messed with her a little bit, and there was a

674
00:37:48,480 --> 00:37:51,920
Speaker 2: lot of conversation maybe around her weight, which maybe she

675
00:37:52,040 --> 00:37:56,360
Speaker 2: was extra sensitive about, which anybody can appreciate, and that

676
00:37:56,560 --> 00:38:02,080
Speaker 2: snowballed into a disdain and then I don't know, And

677
00:38:02,120 --> 00:38:02,640
Speaker 2: this is where.

678
00:38:02,480 --> 00:38:05,480
Speaker 3: The theory falls off the cliff, right, Well, you asked

679
00:38:05,520 --> 00:38:11,000
Speaker 3: about Ryan Reynolds' involvement, and if you remember, this happened

680
00:38:11,040 --> 00:38:14,160
Speaker 3: quite a little bit ago. After Blake Lively followed the

681
00:38:14,200 --> 00:38:17,200
Speaker 3: complaint with the it was with the California Civil Rights

682
00:38:17,200 --> 00:38:24,719
Speaker 3: Department about sexual harassment. It was then that justin Baldoni,

683
00:38:24,800 --> 00:38:28,480
Speaker 3: he sued Blake Lively and her husband Ryot and Reynolds,

684
00:38:28,800 --> 00:38:30,600
Speaker 3: and he did so to the tune of four hundred

685
00:38:30,680 --> 00:38:34,480
Speaker 3: million dollars, accusing him of trying to hijack his film

686
00:38:34,600 --> 00:38:39,799
Speaker 3: and damaging his career, which ps his career much. Not

687
00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:43,120
Speaker 3: that I'm wishing this, but much like Melissa Gilbert said earlier,

688
00:38:43,880 --> 00:38:45,920
Speaker 3: this is Dawnton Now, you know.

689
00:38:46,239 --> 00:38:50,240
Speaker 2: It really showed an underbelly that it's hard to unsee again.

690
00:38:50,360 --> 00:38:52,520
Speaker 2: And like the infamous we won't lose too much time

691
00:38:52,560 --> 00:38:55,719
Speaker 2: on this, but the infamous conversation, just for the play

692
00:38:55,760 --> 00:39:00,279
Speaker 2: along is that Blake Lively allegedly was doing rewrite it's

693
00:39:00,360 --> 00:39:04,759
Speaker 2: to this piece that was already being shot, and if

694
00:39:04,760 --> 00:39:07,479
Speaker 2: you're a writer on a script, that's a very big deal.

695
00:39:07,560 --> 00:39:10,640
Speaker 3: There's guild rules to it, et cetera.

696
00:39:10,920 --> 00:39:14,200
Speaker 2: And that she wanted some rewrits to be handled and

697
00:39:14,280 --> 00:39:18,319
Speaker 2: had invited Taylor Swift and Ryan Reynolds to be there

698
00:39:18,440 --> 00:39:22,440
Speaker 2: to kind of bully him into agreeing to her version.

699
00:39:23,760 --> 00:39:25,839
Speaker 7: Is that how it went down, and.

700
00:39:25,800 --> 00:39:28,279
Speaker 2: He felt like he couldn't really push back, that the

701
00:39:28,320 --> 00:39:30,880
Speaker 2: movie had been hijacked, and that he had to go

702
00:39:30,920 --> 00:39:31,480
Speaker 2: to the basement.

703
00:39:31,520 --> 00:39:33,719
Speaker 7: Remember he had the premiere in the basement. He wasn't

704
00:39:33,760 --> 00:39:37,080
Speaker 7: allowed to go on the red carpet, justin doll.

705
00:39:38,080 --> 00:39:41,239
Speaker 2: It got real petty, betty, it got real petty. Oh yeah,

706
00:39:41,239 --> 00:39:47,719
Speaker 2: he was uninvited. Oh oh wow, Yeah cause I remember this.

707
00:39:47,760 --> 00:39:49,480
Speaker 2: Remember he was in the basement like they had. He

708
00:39:49,520 --> 00:39:51,160
Speaker 2: had to have his own little side party with his

709
00:39:51,200 --> 00:39:54,560
Speaker 2: wife and it was technically his movie.

710
00:39:54,719 --> 00:39:57,120
Speaker 7: So it's gone back and forth for a long time now.

711
00:39:58,680 --> 00:40:01,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, but you know again, and we'll keep you updated

712
00:40:01,280 --> 00:40:04,319
Speaker 3: because next month the jury should be being seated. But

713
00:40:05,200 --> 00:40:07,120
Speaker 3: in the meantime, if you're just joining us, this is

714
00:40:07,160 --> 00:40:10,640
Speaker 3: true Crime tonight and we are going to head into

715
00:40:10,680 --> 00:40:13,319
Speaker 3: some talkbacks where we get to hear from you.

716
00:40:14,440 --> 00:40:17,800
Speaker 10: Hey, ladies, it's Thingsly calling from Canada. I'm just catching

717
00:40:17,880 --> 00:40:20,799
Speaker 10: up on a bunch of podcasts after being away, and

718
00:40:20,920 --> 00:40:26,160
Speaker 10: my talkback is to Body Body. I stumbled across that

719
00:40:26,360 --> 00:40:32,680
Speaker 10: clavical person's Kick pretty much the same day that you

720
00:40:32,760 --> 00:40:34,520
Speaker 10: mentioned it. It was on the front page and I

721
00:40:34,600 --> 00:40:38,279
Speaker 10: clicked on it and shame on Kick for allowing him

722
00:40:38,280 --> 00:40:41,120
Speaker 10: to be on there. Would love to hear more of

723
00:40:41,160 --> 00:40:41,880
Speaker 10: your thoughts on it.

724
00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:43,640
Speaker 3: Bye, listen.

725
00:40:44,080 --> 00:40:47,959
Speaker 4: I mean, you know, Kick is kind of a place

726
00:40:48,000 --> 00:40:51,359
Speaker 4: where everybody goes when they've been banned from everywhere else. Right.

727
00:40:51,880 --> 00:40:54,880
Speaker 4: They can't stream on Twitch anymore. They can't stream on YouTube.

728
00:40:54,920 --> 00:40:59,080
Speaker 4: TikTok has banned them. It's where everybody goes because it's

729
00:40:59,160 --> 00:41:01,920
Speaker 4: kind of a free fall, free for all. Their moderation

730
00:41:02,120 --> 00:41:05,600
Speaker 4: is a lot looser, uh there, and their payouts are

731
00:41:05,640 --> 00:41:11,080
Speaker 4: a lot higher. Right, and listen, I'm all for you know,

732
00:41:11,239 --> 00:41:13,920
Speaker 4: doing what you want, right, doing what you want. I

733
00:41:13,960 --> 00:41:18,040
Speaker 4: think instead of maybe shame on kick, I think we

734
00:41:18,120 --> 00:41:21,239
Speaker 4: need to look at like us as people like that

735
00:41:21,320 --> 00:41:24,200
Speaker 4: are that are that are watching this and throwing money.

736
00:41:23,880 --> 00:41:24,439
Speaker 3: At this guy?

737
00:41:24,760 --> 00:41:28,439
Speaker 4: Right, Like what is wrong with us as society? Where

738
00:41:28,480 --> 00:41:33,239
Speaker 4: we want to see this guy, this little boy, I

739
00:41:33,239 --> 00:41:37,480
Speaker 4: will say, you know, run over people and inject underage

740
00:41:37,520 --> 00:41:41,279
Speaker 4: girls with peptides, and like it's what is wrong with

741
00:41:41,360 --> 00:41:42,000
Speaker 4: us as society?

742
00:41:42,000 --> 00:41:44,719
Speaker 3: Well, let's just describe even who this person is.

743
00:41:45,040 --> 00:41:49,560
Speaker 2: So this is a character I guess we would call him,

744
00:41:49,920 --> 00:41:53,000
Speaker 2: and he kind of is getting He's like a clickbaitter

745
00:41:53,120 --> 00:41:58,360
Speaker 2: to the degree he does like live streaming, ran somebody

746
00:41:58,440 --> 00:42:02,360
Speaker 2: over heel and inject you know, young girls with peptides

747
00:42:02,400 --> 00:42:05,120
Speaker 2: like you just said, and do shocking things like.

748
00:42:06,960 --> 00:42:07,719
Speaker 3: Yeah he does.

749
00:42:07,960 --> 00:42:12,640
Speaker 4: He's shot content. He chisels his like face with a

750
00:42:12,680 --> 00:42:16,920
Speaker 4: hammer I mean, he's listen and this is what the

751
00:42:17,040 --> 00:42:21,839
Speaker 4: and and listen, the kids, like the generation that are

752
00:42:21,880 --> 00:42:25,239
Speaker 4: watching this are your guys' kids, you know what I mean? Like,

753
00:42:25,440 --> 00:42:27,839
Speaker 4: what is going didn't we watch Jackass?

754
00:42:29,120 --> 00:42:30,400
Speaker 6: Yeah that's a good Yeah.

755
00:42:30,680 --> 00:42:32,880
Speaker 4: That's a good point. That is a great bum fights?

756
00:42:32,880 --> 00:42:33,840
Speaker 4: Remember bum fights?

757
00:42:33,920 --> 00:42:35,960
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh. I mean, I'm not saying it's better,

758
00:42:36,000 --> 00:42:36,920
Speaker 2: but frankly I grew up.

759
00:42:37,080 --> 00:42:37,839
Speaker 3: You're writing too.

760
00:42:39,200 --> 00:42:41,160
Speaker 4: Listen, you're right, You're one hundred percent right.

761
00:42:41,280 --> 00:42:41,560
Speaker 6: We did.

762
00:42:41,640 --> 00:42:45,520
Speaker 3: Can I say something? Actually, this very weekend, we're trying

763
00:42:45,520 --> 00:42:49,319
Speaker 3: to think of something to watch together and my boy,

764
00:42:49,360 --> 00:42:53,799
Speaker 3: who's thirteen, is he's sick. And anyway, I said to

765
00:42:53,840 --> 00:42:56,000
Speaker 3: my husband, I said, oh my gosh, we should pull

766
00:42:56,080 --> 00:42:59,799
Speaker 3: up killer Karaoke. I don't know if you guys even

767
00:42:59,840 --> 00:43:02,840
Speaker 3: know what I'm talking about. It was it was hosted

768
00:43:02,880 --> 00:43:06,799
Speaker 3: by Steve O and it was people doing karaoke, but

769
00:43:06,960 --> 00:43:12,360
Speaker 3: in the middle of it, they would literally be shocked,

770
00:43:12,640 --> 00:43:16,280
Speaker 3: like with electric shocks. Oh god, I have to go yes,

771
00:43:16,320 --> 00:43:20,680
Speaker 3: And I literally, as a grown woman, I just we

772
00:43:20,800 --> 00:43:23,799
Speaker 3: can't get enough. I pulled up clips this weekend. This

773
00:43:23,880 --> 00:43:29,919
Speaker 3: aired back in twenty twelve. Listen, didn't you watch Like Eyes?

774
00:43:29,960 --> 00:43:34,919
Speaker 3: Wide with your parents on Christmas of yours. We got

775
00:43:34,920 --> 00:43:36,719
Speaker 3: to hear about your Eastern delights.

776
00:43:37,040 --> 00:43:40,000
Speaker 2: We know, lent ended and this is hysterical, but yes,

777
00:43:40,160 --> 00:43:42,480
Speaker 2: but to your point, our point, Yes, So this guy

778
00:43:42,560 --> 00:43:48,400
Speaker 2: is injecting himself with like anti aging principles that are absurd,

779
00:43:48,719 --> 00:43:52,920
Speaker 2: and he's taking steroids and he's underage and he's promoting it.

780
00:43:52,960 --> 00:43:53,560
Speaker 7: That's a good point.

781
00:43:53,640 --> 00:43:55,960
Speaker 4: He's promoting it, and he goes out in public and

782
00:43:55,960 --> 00:43:59,480
Speaker 4: there's all these young women that are looking up to him,

783
00:43:59,600 --> 00:44:03,799
Speaker 4: and that's scarily enough, young men that are looking up

784
00:44:03,800 --> 00:44:07,800
Speaker 4: to him and trying to emulate this Manisphere kind of behavior.

785
00:44:07,960 --> 00:44:12,560
Speaker 4: And you know, he's he's got ties to Entertait and

786
00:44:12,800 --> 00:44:15,960
Speaker 4: Nick Fuentes and the you know, the hard right of

787
00:44:16,160 --> 00:44:19,160
Speaker 4: this world and the Manisphere world that you know, we've

788
00:44:19,200 --> 00:44:22,400
Speaker 4: talked about a lot. And I think the behavior is

789
00:44:22,520 --> 00:44:25,719
Speaker 4: very dangerous. And yeah, you know, Shaite, you're right, shame

790
00:44:25,800 --> 00:44:28,719
Speaker 4: on kick. But at the same time, like where do

791
00:44:28,760 --> 00:44:32,680
Speaker 4: you draw the line between content and harm? Right, and

792
00:44:33,000 --> 00:44:36,840
Speaker 4: people are electing to watch this stuff, right, My issue

793
00:44:36,840 --> 00:44:39,759
Speaker 4: with him is that he's doing it to people that

794
00:44:39,920 --> 00:44:42,960
Speaker 4: number one can't consent because they're underage. Yes, and number

795
00:44:42,960 --> 00:44:45,520
Speaker 4: two like he's running people over and stuff like.

796
00:44:46,239 --> 00:44:50,200
Speaker 2: Right, it's extremely dangerous, right, just different to jack self,

797
00:44:50,640 --> 00:44:54,520
Speaker 2: Like Jackass, they injured themselves, right, so it wasn't as

798
00:44:54,560 --> 00:44:58,000
Speaker 2: though they were menaces to society, But still.

799
00:44:58,400 --> 00:45:01,560
Speaker 4: Did that foster the current be behavior that we're seeing possibly,

800
00:45:02,480 --> 00:45:04,520
Speaker 4: I don't know, like possibly, like what's gonna what are

801
00:45:04,719 --> 00:45:07,520
Speaker 4: what are like your great grand whatever? Are the great

802
00:45:07,560 --> 00:45:09,600
Speaker 4: grandkids going to be expecting to see you when they

803
00:45:09,640 --> 00:45:11,400
Speaker 4: open up their phone, you know, because.

804
00:45:11,440 --> 00:45:14,359
Speaker 2: They're going to want to watch I think they're going

805
00:45:14,400 --> 00:45:17,320
Speaker 2: to completely overcorrect and people are going to start watching

806
00:45:17,360 --> 00:45:21,920
Speaker 2: flowers grow and you know, people jumping out of a

807
00:45:21,960 --> 00:45:25,279
Speaker 2: box with hearts and candy. I do think we will

808
00:45:25,320 --> 00:45:27,840
Speaker 2: be heading to a happier age.

809
00:45:28,400 --> 00:45:30,120
Speaker 9: Right, Well, I feel like it's the opposite. I feel

810
00:45:30,120 --> 00:45:32,280
Speaker 9: like it's going to go towards like a squid Game

811
00:45:32,480 --> 00:45:33,319
Speaker 9: version of it.

812
00:45:33,480 --> 00:45:36,280
Speaker 3: Really can't. I think we're already in that version.

813
00:45:37,040 --> 00:45:41,719
Speaker 7: We're past that. I think we're in like the correction mode.

814
00:45:41,920 --> 00:45:47,840
Speaker 4: Actually, the platform is making a ton of money because

815
00:45:47,880 --> 00:45:49,800
Speaker 4: it's it's like a it's like a share. You get

816
00:45:50,360 --> 00:45:52,440
Speaker 4: x amount and the platform gets x amount, you know,

817
00:45:52,480 --> 00:45:55,640
Speaker 4: and it's a platform that's you know, kick was based

818
00:45:55,640 --> 00:46:01,000
Speaker 4: off of like crypto and gaming, you know, gamble, and

819
00:46:01,080 --> 00:46:04,400
Speaker 4: so they're you know, the platform itself is pretty risky

820
00:46:04,600 --> 00:46:08,600
Speaker 4: to begin with, right add in this these they call

821
00:46:08,680 --> 00:46:11,160
Speaker 4: them IRL streamers in real life streamers, and they just

822
00:46:11,200 --> 00:46:14,480
Speaker 4: basically film their life twenty four seven and you know

823
00:46:14,520 --> 00:46:16,480
Speaker 4: they're making money and have it hand over fists from

824
00:46:16,480 --> 00:46:19,960
Speaker 4: tips in the comments, and Kick is making money from this, right, So, like,

825
00:46:20,040 --> 00:46:22,840
Speaker 4: why would they say no when they're not. He's not

826
00:46:23,040 --> 00:46:26,560
Speaker 4: violating the rules of the platform. And by the way,

827
00:46:27,120 --> 00:46:29,640
Speaker 4: I have been getting tagged on TikTok. I probably have

828
00:46:29,719 --> 00:46:37,080
Speaker 4: five hundred mentions that he reminds people of Luca and Wow,

829
00:46:37,600 --> 00:46:40,640
Speaker 4: I'm saying right now, right now, I see your tags.

830
00:46:40,680 --> 00:46:41,440
Speaker 4: I appreciate them.

831
00:46:41,480 --> 00:46:48,200
Speaker 3: Please stop, Okay, stop that. No, don't stop listening because

832
00:46:48,560 --> 00:46:51,600
Speaker 3: it don't stop using that. At the top of the hour,

833
00:46:51,800 --> 00:46:54,480
Speaker 3: Amy Bradley, she's the twenty three year old who disappeared

834
00:46:54,520 --> 00:46:57,080
Speaker 3: on a cruise ship. Right she is back. There are

835
00:46:57,200 --> 00:47:00,960
Speaker 3: new leads. Uh later, we're gonna talk about a wellness

836
00:47:01,000 --> 00:47:03,399
Speaker 3: movement that's now being called a cult. Keep it here.

837
00:47:03,480 --> 00:47:18,520
Speaker 2: To Crime Tonight, Welcome back to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio.

838
00:47:18,680 --> 00:47:20,640
Speaker 3: We're talking true crime all the time.

839
00:47:20,800 --> 00:47:24,160
Speaker 2: I'm Stephanie Leidecker here with Court new Yormstrong and body

840
00:47:24,200 --> 00:47:26,919
Speaker 2: move in. Before we go any further, let's go straight

841
00:47:26,960 --> 00:47:27,600
Speaker 2: to a talk back.

842
00:47:28,480 --> 00:47:33,640
Speaker 11: Hi, everyone, this is Kim from California on the Air

843
00:47:33,680 --> 00:47:34,480
Speaker 11: Force general.

844
00:47:34,719 --> 00:47:37,920
Speaker 10: Has anything been said about if some.

845
00:47:37,719 --> 00:47:42,720
Speaker 11: Sort of military police are helping to conduct the investigation.

846
00:47:42,960 --> 00:47:44,960
Speaker 11: I know he's retired, but a lot of times they

847
00:47:44,960 --> 00:47:48,680
Speaker 11: would look into that as well, and maybe that's why

848
00:47:48,760 --> 00:47:52,840
Speaker 11: there is a lack of information being shared with the public.

849
00:47:54,160 --> 00:47:57,880
Speaker 3: I mean, that's a very excellent observation.

850
00:47:58,960 --> 00:48:02,439
Speaker 4: You know, so far, there's no indication that the US

851
00:48:02,480 --> 00:48:07,120
Speaker 4: military police or any defense intelligence units have taken over

852
00:48:07,400 --> 00:48:11,120
Speaker 4: the case or are conducting a separate, you know, classified investigation.

853
00:48:12,120 --> 00:48:14,719
Speaker 4: That doesn't mean there isn't one happening, right they If

854
00:48:14,719 --> 00:48:16,600
Speaker 4: there was one happening, I think that we wouldn't know

855
00:48:16,640 --> 00:48:19,120
Speaker 4: about it, right what they do, right?

856
00:48:19,200 --> 00:48:20,520
Speaker 3: I don't know that we by nature?

857
00:48:21,239 --> 00:48:21,800
Speaker 4: By nature?

858
00:48:21,880 --> 00:48:22,800
Speaker 3: Right? Well?

859
00:48:22,680 --> 00:48:26,240
Speaker 2: But the big question, Yeah, Nancy Guthrie, we were looking

860
00:48:26,320 --> 00:48:28,280
Speaker 2: for it was front page news.

861
00:48:28,320 --> 00:48:30,360
Speaker 7: Why is this not fun page news?

862
00:48:30,840 --> 00:48:32,879
Speaker 4: Well, I think I think we're going to find out

863
00:48:32,920 --> 00:48:36,600
Speaker 4: right now. So the focus right now has been, you know,

864
00:48:36,640 --> 00:48:40,560
Speaker 4: remaining on a civil missing person search led by local

865
00:48:40,640 --> 00:48:45,160
Speaker 4: law enforcement with the FBI assistance. Right, And there's newly

866
00:48:45,200 --> 00:48:49,400
Speaker 4: released nine one one audio from the February twenty seventh

867
00:48:49,880 --> 00:48:53,080
Speaker 4: day he went missing. And it's revealing that Susan Wilkerson,

868
00:48:53,120 --> 00:48:57,960
Speaker 4: she's the wife right, her urgent call reporting that her husband, again,

869
00:48:58,040 --> 00:49:02,960
Speaker 4: retired Air Force Major General William Neil McCasland, that he

870
00:49:03,080 --> 00:49:09,279
Speaker 4: planned quote planned not to be found, right, So maybe

871
00:49:09,280 --> 00:49:12,960
Speaker 4: that's why we're not hearing about it. Right. So General McCastle,

872
00:49:13,040 --> 00:49:15,120
Speaker 4: and he's sixty eight years old. He retired in twenty

873
00:49:15,160 --> 00:49:21,760
Speaker 4: thirteen after overseeing classified space programs in research at Wright

874
00:49:21,920 --> 00:49:26,279
Speaker 4: Patterson Air Force Base. General McCastle and he vanished from

875
00:49:26,320 --> 00:49:30,960
Speaker 4: his Albuquerque home in late February, leaving behind his phone

876
00:49:31,239 --> 00:49:34,760
Speaker 4: and his glasses and other personal items. And it prompted

877
00:49:34,760 --> 00:49:39,080
Speaker 4: to search by local authorities and the FBI and so on.

878
00:49:39,160 --> 00:49:42,920
Speaker 4: This was February twenty seventh. His wife called nine one

879
00:49:42,960 --> 00:49:46,480
Speaker 4: one three hours after discovering he went missing, warning and

880
00:49:46,520 --> 00:49:49,000
Speaker 4: I'm going to use quotes here. My husband is missing.

881
00:49:49,440 --> 00:49:52,120
Speaker 4: It's been around three it's been about three hours, and

882
00:49:52,160 --> 00:49:55,480
Speaker 4: I have some indication that he must have planned not

883
00:49:55,719 --> 00:49:59,680
Speaker 4: to be found. Wow, So we're gonna play that right now,

884
00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:00,840
Speaker 4: play that, madam.

885
00:50:01,239 --> 00:50:02,560
Speaker 3: This is April. How may help you?

886
00:50:03,000 --> 00:50:06,880
Speaker 12: Hi, April, my name is Susan Wilkerson. My husband is

887
00:50:07,000 --> 00:50:12,960
Speaker 12: missing and it's been about three hours, and I have

888
00:50:13,200 --> 00:50:17,400
Speaker 12: some indication that he must have planned not to be found.

889
00:50:17,440 --> 00:50:20,279
Speaker 12: He's left his phone, he changed his clothes, and I

890
00:50:20,280 --> 00:50:20,799
Speaker 12: don't know what.

891
00:50:22,480 --> 00:50:28,600
Speaker 4: M Yeah, so she told the dispatchers that he left

892
00:50:28,600 --> 00:50:30,720
Speaker 4: in the middle of the day while she was out.

893
00:50:31,440 --> 00:50:33,680
Speaker 4: She said, I think he's on foot. All of our

894
00:50:33,760 --> 00:50:36,040
Speaker 4: cars and our bicycles are in the garage.

895
00:50:37,719 --> 00:50:38,280
Speaker 6: He turned.

896
00:50:38,320 --> 00:50:39,400
Speaker 4: Now you know it's weird.

897
00:50:39,640 --> 00:50:40,160
Speaker 3: Can we see?

898
00:50:40,440 --> 00:50:43,359
Speaker 2: It's a little strange, this story. Yeah, I've almost start

899
00:50:43,480 --> 00:50:44,359
Speaker 2: right here for a moment.

900
00:50:44,360 --> 00:50:46,960
Speaker 4: I don't even know. I don't even would you guys know,

901
00:50:47,600 --> 00:50:50,120
Speaker 4: like if you went out, right, Courtney, if you went

902
00:50:50,160 --> 00:50:53,919
Speaker 4: out and you came home and your husband wasn't there, right,

903
00:50:54,280 --> 00:50:57,640
Speaker 4: and he didn't tell you he was going anywhere, if

904
00:50:57,680 --> 00:50:59,560
Speaker 4: in three hours he didn't come home, would you call

905
00:50:59,640 --> 00:51:00,360
Speaker 4: reported missing?

906
00:51:02,080 --> 00:51:07,040
Speaker 3: Well? No, however, although it would it would be very

907
00:51:07,200 --> 00:51:14,160
Speaker 3: very strange, would if his phone was there, because that's stapled.

908
00:51:14,239 --> 00:51:19,799
Speaker 3: But additional information that the general's wife shared were some

909
00:51:19,880 --> 00:51:25,800
Speaker 3: concerns about General mcclaskin's health and his mindset and quote

910
00:51:25,840 --> 00:51:29,120
Speaker 3: he's been saying, if his brain and body keep deteriorating,

911
00:51:29,680 --> 00:51:34,000
Speaker 3: he doesn't want to live like that. And that's gigantic,

912
00:51:35,239 --> 00:51:35,640
Speaker 3: by the way.

913
00:51:35,800 --> 00:51:40,000
Speaker 2: So this wife, I'm a little concerned, a tinge. She

914
00:51:40,080 --> 00:51:44,960
Speaker 2: seems very very relaxed. So if you know that your

915
00:51:45,040 --> 00:51:50,560
Speaker 2: husband is about to dip and you know, do the unthinkable,

916
00:51:52,160 --> 00:51:53,120
Speaker 2: is that okay?

917
00:51:54,080 --> 00:51:57,879
Speaker 4: Well, I mean I think military spouses are probably used

918
00:51:57,920 --> 00:52:00,719
Speaker 4: to remaining calm in crises. You know, Like that's a

919
00:52:00,800 --> 00:52:03,920
Speaker 4: good point, don't you think, Like, But like I so,

920
00:52:04,040 --> 00:52:06,680
Speaker 4: she wasn't really like crazy looking for him.

921
00:52:06,920 --> 00:52:12,239
Speaker 2: It doesn't appear well, Remember she said initially, again, I'm

922
00:52:12,280 --> 00:52:16,000
Speaker 2: not putting any m hmm. This is somebody who's you know,

923
00:52:16,080 --> 00:52:19,880
Speaker 2: I'm assuming grieving her beloved husband. So all that to

924
00:52:19,960 --> 00:52:23,960
Speaker 2: be said. Her initial statement was that, oh, trust me,

925
00:52:24,480 --> 00:52:27,360
Speaker 2: he wasn't taken by the aliens. It was something slightly glib.

926
00:52:27,560 --> 00:52:31,520
Speaker 4: It was, I agree, it was a little glib. And

927
00:52:31,760 --> 00:52:34,960
Speaker 4: you know, she did mention, you know, he turned his

928
00:52:35,040 --> 00:52:37,880
Speaker 4: phone off and left it behind, which seemed kind of

929
00:52:37,920 --> 00:52:41,279
Speaker 4: deliberate because he's always got his phone. He has a

930
00:52:41,320 --> 00:52:43,600
Speaker 4: smart watch. I don't know if that's with him or not,

931
00:52:44,560 --> 00:52:47,279
Speaker 4: which is another thing that's very interesting to me. Like

932
00:52:48,160 --> 00:52:51,640
Speaker 4: if you left behind like your wallet and your you know,

933
00:52:51,680 --> 00:52:56,120
Speaker 4: your phone and your your your watch, wouldn't wouldn't. Okay,

934
00:52:56,760 --> 00:52:59,680
Speaker 4: three hours have gone by, right, my spouse, they haven't

935
00:52:59,719 --> 00:53:02,640
Speaker 4: come home. I'm going to be looking for things like

936
00:53:02,920 --> 00:53:05,960
Speaker 4: the smart watch, Like what does he have with him?

937
00:53:06,000 --> 00:53:08,319
Speaker 4: I'd well, I would be hysterical. Yeah, But like this

938
00:53:08,360 --> 00:53:11,759
Speaker 4: is a military spouse and she, you know, might be

939
00:53:11,960 --> 00:53:16,680
Speaker 4: kind of like accustomed as fair not or not necessarily trained.

940
00:53:16,680 --> 00:53:18,920
Speaker 4: I don't want to use the word trained, but you know,

941
00:53:20,080 --> 00:53:23,839
Speaker 4: military military spouses they deal with a lot that we

942
00:53:24,000 --> 00:53:26,960
Speaker 4: don't have any concept of, right, like us dummy civilians

943
00:53:26,960 --> 00:53:30,239
Speaker 4: that we don't know anything about, right. And so I

944
00:53:30,280 --> 00:53:33,520
Speaker 4: feel like military spouses probably are a little bit more

945
00:53:33,520 --> 00:53:36,640
Speaker 4: calm in storm, you know, because they've been through it. Right.

946
00:53:37,960 --> 00:53:39,000
Speaker 4: But this is just theird.

947
00:53:39,120 --> 00:53:41,560
Speaker 7: It sounded like she knew he was going to go die.

948
00:53:41,840 --> 00:53:42,120
Speaker 2: Right.

949
00:53:42,280 --> 00:53:46,200
Speaker 4: That's the thing that that's the thing, right, she said.

950
00:53:45,960 --> 00:53:49,440
Speaker 7: Part of the storm exactly, I don't know.

951
00:53:49,600 --> 00:53:53,000
Speaker 4: She said, he's never done anything remotely like this before.

952
00:53:53,040 --> 00:53:56,960
Speaker 4: He generally doesn't carry a weapon and again to what

953
00:53:57,040 --> 00:54:01,080
Speaker 4: Courtney said. She shared concerns about his health and mindset,

954
00:54:01,160 --> 00:54:04,000
Speaker 4: saying that he's he's been saying if his brain and

955
00:54:04,080 --> 00:54:07,600
Speaker 4: body keep deteriorating, he doesn't want to live like that.

956
00:54:08,920 --> 00:54:13,120
Speaker 4: But didn't didn't before in that interview, didn't she say

957
00:54:13,239 --> 00:54:16,840
Speaker 4: that he wasn't showing any signs of like mental.

958
00:54:17,960 --> 00:54:20,839
Speaker 3: So much so that was about you know, I have

959
00:54:20,920 --> 00:54:23,640
Speaker 3: as much information and knowledge as you guys do, right,

960
00:54:24,080 --> 00:54:27,240
Speaker 3: but why I do think there is a difference between

961
00:54:27,239 --> 00:54:32,080
Speaker 3: a nine one one call and then a public you know,

962
00:54:32,120 --> 00:54:36,480
Speaker 3: a public conference and listen if what is she is

963
00:54:36,520 --> 00:54:42,680
Speaker 3: saying is true and generala mccasklin was deteriorating in body

964
00:54:42,719 --> 00:54:46,359
Speaker 3: and or mind, and they discussed not wanting to live

965
00:54:46,560 --> 00:54:49,360
Speaker 3: like that, and that let's make believe there's a universe

966
00:54:49,400 --> 00:54:53,520
Speaker 3: in which that has been an absolute discussion between them

967
00:54:54,000 --> 00:54:58,400
Speaker 3: for a while. Maybe there may be respect if that

968
00:54:58,680 --> 00:55:02,360
Speaker 3: is his decision to leave the house without his glasses,

969
00:55:02,400 --> 00:55:08,120
Speaker 3: his wallet, but taking hiking boots and a revolver with him.

970
00:55:07,200 --> 00:55:09,640
Speaker 9: And also maybe that ties in with her calmness like

971
00:55:09,680 --> 00:55:14,040
Speaker 9: they have had. Right, she's probably putting two and two

972
00:55:14,040 --> 00:55:17,399
Speaker 9: together and to your earlier place when when you would

973
00:55:17,400 --> 00:55:20,440
Speaker 9: make that call. Like if after three or four hours

974
00:55:20,560 --> 00:55:23,120
Speaker 9: the cars are all there, you know, you start to

975
00:55:23,200 --> 00:55:25,360
Speaker 9: she's probably thinking, yeah, this is four hours.

976
00:55:25,400 --> 00:55:26,880
Speaker 6: There's he didn't take a car.

977
00:55:27,520 --> 00:55:31,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, Now, if they had been talking about this, wouldn't

978
00:55:31,280 --> 00:55:33,960
Speaker 2: she have known it pretty quickly?

979
00:55:34,080 --> 00:55:35,600
Speaker 7: Three hours without your phone?

980
00:55:36,400 --> 00:55:38,440
Speaker 6: I mean maybe not answer.

981
00:55:38,520 --> 00:55:41,040
Speaker 3: I suppose there is no He could.

982
00:55:40,840 --> 00:55:42,920
Speaker 9: Have gone for a long walk or like, you know,

983
00:55:43,200 --> 00:55:45,360
Speaker 9: he could have been anything. But now when she starts

984
00:55:45,400 --> 00:55:47,400
Speaker 9: to look around the house and see items that he

985
00:55:47,520 --> 00:55:50,160
Speaker 9: normally would take, it seems suspicious.

986
00:55:49,760 --> 00:55:51,799
Speaker 4: Right, I think what probably happened and she came home,

987
00:55:51,800 --> 00:55:54,440
Speaker 4: he wasn't there. Right, an hour went by, I mean

988
00:55:54,560 --> 00:55:57,200
Speaker 4: hour goes by very quickly. Right, an hour goes by,

989
00:55:57,360 --> 00:55:59,560
Speaker 4: She's like, oh, where is he? And then she starts

990
00:55:59,560 --> 00:56:03,240
Speaker 4: looking right and it takes a couple of hours to realize,

991
00:56:03,280 --> 00:56:06,319
Speaker 4: oh my god, his phone is here? Is you know

992
00:56:06,360 --> 00:56:07,320
Speaker 4: the gun is gone?

993
00:56:08,160 --> 00:56:08,360
Speaker 12: You know?

994
00:56:08,640 --> 00:56:10,919
Speaker 4: I mean it would take me probably around that long

995
00:56:10,960 --> 00:56:13,640
Speaker 4: to realize too, honestly, right, like.

996
00:56:13,640 --> 00:56:18,319
Speaker 2: Oh, you would take you eighteen seconds if you walk

997
00:56:18,400 --> 00:56:21,680
Speaker 2: in that house, honestly, of all people would be.

998
00:56:21,760 --> 00:56:23,560
Speaker 3: Body you good luck.

999
00:56:25,600 --> 00:56:30,880
Speaker 2: He wouldn't have gotten into the mailbox and captured and

1000
00:56:31,000 --> 00:56:31,600
Speaker 2: brought back.

1001
00:56:34,440 --> 00:56:37,160
Speaker 7: Yeah, I hope he's alive. Is it possible.

1002
00:56:37,840 --> 00:56:41,080
Speaker 3: Doesn't seem like she's worried that he's not.

1003
00:56:41,560 --> 00:56:42,680
Speaker 6: I don't think at this point.

1004
00:56:43,680 --> 00:56:48,360
Speaker 3: It's been a while now, just one last thing, just

1005
00:56:48,560 --> 00:56:50,759
Speaker 3: stebbing it when you said before, like why didn't she

1006
00:56:50,840 --> 00:56:54,960
Speaker 3: talk about the deterioration in the press conference again if

1007
00:56:55,040 --> 00:56:59,600
Speaker 3: they were having these private marital discussions, which you know,

1008
00:57:00,160 --> 00:57:03,319
Speaker 3: I don't know, but if that is the case, she

1009
00:57:03,480 --> 00:57:08,879
Speaker 3: may want, you know, his reputation to price, maintain and keep.

1010
00:57:09,880 --> 00:57:10,840
Speaker 7: Yeah, that makes sense.

1011
00:57:11,480 --> 00:57:14,640
Speaker 4: Yeah, like his day feel terrible for exactly. He's a

1012
00:57:14,760 --> 00:57:18,160
Speaker 4: very smart man. He's dignified major general in the Air

1013
00:57:18,200 --> 00:57:20,760
Speaker 4: Force that had major projects under his belt, and he's

1014
00:57:20,760 --> 00:57:24,000
Speaker 4: not dignity, he maintained. Listen, if I was starting to

1015
00:57:24,000 --> 00:57:27,120
Speaker 4: lose my smarts, that's all I've got, right, If I

1016
00:57:27,160 --> 00:57:29,560
Speaker 4: was starting to lose my smarts, I might be like, listen,

1017
00:57:29,800 --> 00:57:32,440
Speaker 4: I don't want to live like this, Like I got

1018
00:57:32,520 --> 00:57:34,960
Speaker 4: nothing else, you know, I don't know, I don't know.

1019
00:57:37,920 --> 00:57:43,640
Speaker 9: Something yet still feels unusual, like there's no especially if

1020
00:57:43,640 --> 00:57:44,200
Speaker 9: you left.

1021
00:57:44,000 --> 00:57:47,160
Speaker 4: On foot right, because I can't get far right, you can.

1022
00:57:47,440 --> 00:57:49,680
Speaker 3: What if he broke his ankle, he's waiting out there

1023
00:57:50,960 --> 00:57:51,760
Speaker 3: for this bid.

1024
00:57:52,560 --> 00:57:55,120
Speaker 4: I don't know about that. Listen, I don't know about that,

1025
00:57:55,640 --> 00:57:57,880
Speaker 4: but we're going to continue to follow it and keep

1026
00:57:57,880 --> 00:58:00,640
Speaker 4: everybody updated on any developments that around. This is true

1027
00:58:00,680 --> 00:58:02,760
Speaker 4: Crime Tonight. We're on iHeartRadio One Body Move and I'm

1028
00:58:02,760 --> 00:58:05,800
Speaker 4: here with Stephanie Lydecker and Courtney Armstrong were joined by

1029
00:58:05,800 --> 00:58:09,440
Speaker 4: Taha House as well, and we're talking about this missing general.

1030
00:58:09,840 --> 00:58:12,880
Speaker 4: But Courtney, I understand there's this big information coming out

1031
00:58:12,920 --> 00:58:14,560
Speaker 4: about Amy Bradley.

1032
00:58:16,120 --> 00:58:19,800
Speaker 3: Yes, you guys may remember a couple of months ago

1033
00:58:20,200 --> 00:58:24,200
Speaker 3: there was a documentary, a true crime documentary on Netflix

1034
00:58:24,280 --> 00:58:28,680
Speaker 3: called Amy Bradley Is Missing. Now. This covered the case

1035
00:58:28,920 --> 00:58:33,400
Speaker 3: of Amy Bradley. Unsurprisingly and at the time of a

1036
00:58:33,480 --> 00:58:37,000
Speaker 3: Royal Caribbean cruise back in nineteen ninety eight. She was

1037
00:58:37,080 --> 00:58:40,560
Speaker 3: twenty three years old and she traveled to Curiso with

1038
00:58:40,640 --> 00:58:45,360
Speaker 3: her family and disappeared from the cruise ship and her

1039
00:58:45,360 --> 00:58:49,320
Speaker 3: body was never recovered. Now, over the years, there have

1040
00:58:49,520 --> 00:58:54,840
Speaker 3: been some sightings allegedly here and there in the Dutch

1041
00:58:54,880 --> 00:59:01,080
Speaker 3: Caribbean and Aruba. However, the director of the documentary, his

1042
00:59:01,160 --> 00:59:04,960
Speaker 3: name is Ari Mark, reported that the investigation into her

1043
00:59:04,960 --> 00:59:09,000
Speaker 3: disappearance has recently gained new leads. And this includes the

1044
00:59:09,080 --> 00:59:14,960
Speaker 3: FBI questioning of different trafficking suspects and potential confirmation of

1045
00:59:15,040 --> 00:59:17,040
Speaker 3: her presence in a Caribbean casino.

1046
00:59:19,360 --> 00:59:22,360
Speaker 2: So I think they cited the reward being helpful, like, yeah,

1047
00:59:22,400 --> 00:59:24,040
Speaker 2: it seemed that there was a little bit of an uptick.

1048
00:59:24,680 --> 00:59:27,400
Speaker 2: Their brother was speaking out as well, I believe in

1049
00:59:27,520 --> 00:59:32,560
Speaker 2: Ashley Bearfield, Yeah, Banfield.

1050
00:59:33,880 --> 00:59:35,040
Speaker 7: Well promising.

1051
00:59:35,640 --> 00:59:35,880
Speaker 6: Yeah.

1052
00:59:35,920 --> 00:59:38,480
Speaker 3: And in this instance, there's been two people of interest

1053
00:59:38,800 --> 00:59:43,000
Speaker 3: with alleged trafficking ties, both of which were questioned by

1054
00:59:43,040 --> 00:59:47,960
Speaker 3: the FBI. And according to the director of the documentary,

1055
00:59:48,080 --> 00:59:51,040
Speaker 3: he called it pretty new developments and a.

1056
00:59:50,960 --> 00:59:51,840
Speaker 7: Big deal.

1057
00:59:53,520 --> 00:59:54,680
Speaker 6: And wow.

1058
00:59:55,960 --> 00:59:59,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, and there was a red flagged ip hit from

1059
00:59:59,240 --> 01:00:01,880
Speaker 3: a public comput This was back in twenty twenty three,

1060
01:00:02,080 --> 01:00:06,720
Speaker 3: and that happened in a Caribbean casino, which may indicate

1061
01:00:06,760 --> 01:00:10,960
Speaker 3: that Amy Bradley herself or a potential captor was accessing

1062
01:00:11,000 --> 01:00:16,680
Speaker 3: Amy Bradley's missing website. Wow yeah, So interestingly, the casino

1063
01:00:16,760 --> 01:00:23,240
Speaker 3: manager confirmed recognizing Amy Bradley at first, but then later refused.

1064
01:00:23,280 --> 01:00:28,360
Speaker 4: Comment, Oh what did you make of that? Yeah, that's interesting.

1065
01:00:29,040 --> 01:00:32,080
Speaker 4: So but did he did well, do we know, did

1066
01:00:32,120 --> 01:00:37,160
Speaker 4: he recognize her from a certain time like four years ago, Like,

1067
01:00:37,600 --> 01:00:41,600
Speaker 4: how many people listen, thousands of people, thousands of people

1068
01:00:41,600 --> 01:00:45,160
Speaker 4: go through a casino every day. How would you recognize

1069
01:00:45,440 --> 01:00:50,320
Speaker 4: one person unless it was recent, right, Like, I don't know,

1070
01:00:50,720 --> 01:00:54,680
Speaker 4: that's weird to me. Well, this instance was in twenty

1071
01:00:54,760 --> 01:00:59,880
Speaker 4: twenty three, so I don't know, right, that's not long ago.

1072
01:01:00,840 --> 01:01:03,360
Speaker 4: But he said he initially confirmed recognized her. But it

1073
01:01:03,400 --> 01:01:06,320
Speaker 4: doesn't say like when he saw her, Like it just

1074
01:01:06,360 --> 01:01:09,200
Speaker 4: says that this hit came. So was it the casino

1075
01:01:09,320 --> 01:01:11,280
Speaker 4: manager looking up at you know what I mean? Like

1076
01:01:11,760 --> 01:01:13,840
Speaker 4: did he see her and go, oh, is that the

1077
01:01:13,840 --> 01:01:17,200
Speaker 4: missing girl? And then go to the website like, listen,

1078
01:01:17,360 --> 01:01:20,520
Speaker 4: they keep those surveillance tapes for a very long time.

1079
01:01:20,640 --> 01:01:22,880
Speaker 4: Tapes I say tapes like it's nineteen eighty four. But

1080
01:01:22,920 --> 01:01:25,360
Speaker 4: they keep the surveillance stuff for very long. You're so hid,

1081
01:01:27,880 --> 01:01:29,760
Speaker 4: you know what I mean, Like they take come on,

1082
01:01:30,200 --> 01:01:32,800
Speaker 4: Like when did he when did he think she was

1083
01:01:32,840 --> 01:01:33,480
Speaker 4: in the casino?

1084
01:01:35,280 --> 01:01:38,120
Speaker 3: I mean, that's a big deal to me, right, twenty

1085
01:01:38,160 --> 01:01:38,960
Speaker 3: twenty three.

1086
01:01:40,280 --> 01:01:43,680
Speaker 4: No, that's whensble happened. That's not when he said he

1087
01:01:43,720 --> 01:01:46,960
Speaker 4: saw her. When they questioned the casino manager, he said, oh, yeah,

1088
01:01:46,960 --> 01:01:49,800
Speaker 4: I recognize her. He didn't say I recognize her from

1089
01:01:49,840 --> 01:01:52,120
Speaker 4: twenty twenty three. He just said, yeah, I recognize her.

1090
01:01:52,640 --> 01:01:54,760
Speaker 4: The ip hit happened in twenty twenty three. That doesn't

1091
01:01:54,800 --> 01:01:57,160
Speaker 4: mean that's when he recalled seeing her.

1092
01:01:58,080 --> 01:02:00,560
Speaker 3: God, okay, five years prior right right?

1093
01:02:00,600 --> 01:02:00,760
Speaker 6: Right?

1094
01:02:01,840 --> 01:02:05,360
Speaker 4: When did he like, oh I saw her last week

1095
01:02:05,600 --> 01:02:07,280
Speaker 4: or I saw her four years ago?

1096
01:02:07,400 --> 01:02:07,760
Speaker 12: Like what.

1097
01:02:09,440 --> 01:02:09,800
Speaker 3: Those are?

1098
01:02:09,920 --> 01:02:10,000
Speaker 11: Like?

1099
01:02:10,080 --> 01:02:11,720
Speaker 4: Really important details?

1100
01:02:12,120 --> 01:02:17,000
Speaker 3: Right right? Well, the Bradley's, the Bradley family's private investigator.

1101
01:02:18,040 --> 01:02:21,840
Speaker 3: They approved sharing the new findings and the ongoing investigation.

1102
01:02:22,640 --> 01:02:26,920
Speaker 3: But it's an unofficial collaboration between the FBI and the

1103
01:02:26,960 --> 01:02:28,280
Speaker 3: private investigator.

1104
01:02:28,440 --> 01:02:33,919
Speaker 2: So it seems like who fits that bill. That's also

1105
01:02:33,960 --> 01:02:36,120
Speaker 2: a bummer, you know. Could you imagine you're missing a

1106
01:02:36,160 --> 01:02:38,680
Speaker 2: loved one and you have to pay for a PI?

1107
01:02:39,560 --> 01:02:42,320
Speaker 4: Yeah, oh yeah, it happens all the time.

1108
01:02:43,240 --> 01:02:43,560
Speaker 3: Listen.

1109
01:02:43,600 --> 01:02:46,560
Speaker 4: Next upcoming this one Caste Cult. I'm so excited to

1110
01:02:46,600 --> 01:02:49,120
Speaker 4: talk about this and now it's leaders are heading to

1111
01:02:49,360 --> 01:02:54,400
Speaker 4: prison after what prosecution calls a decade of manipulation and control.

1112
01:02:54,640 --> 01:02:55,960
Speaker 4: Keep it right here, A true Friend's night.

1113
01:03:06,680 --> 01:03:09,880
Speaker 2: Welcome back to true crime tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking

1114
01:03:09,920 --> 01:03:12,360
Speaker 2: true crime all the time. I'm staff here with Courtney

1115
01:03:12,440 --> 01:03:13,240
Speaker 2: and Body.

1116
01:03:13,400 --> 01:03:14,920
Speaker 3: So this cult.

1117
01:03:15,400 --> 01:03:16,320
Speaker 7: Have you guys been.

1118
01:03:16,280 --> 01:03:19,560
Speaker 3: Following this cult one taste?

1119
01:03:20,480 --> 01:03:21,000
Speaker 12: I have not.

1120
01:03:22,720 --> 01:03:26,320
Speaker 3: Caandalous, Yeah, following this one very closely.

1121
01:03:26,960 --> 01:03:31,480
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean listen, Courtney buckle In buckle Ins, and

1122
01:03:32,080 --> 01:03:34,800
Speaker 4: this is very this is actually very serious. And you

1123
01:03:34,840 --> 01:03:39,240
Speaker 4: know this segment is going to include discussions of sexual abuse. Listener,

1124
01:03:39,280 --> 01:03:43,600
Speaker 4: discuss is advised. So this one tastes cult, okay. They

1125
01:03:43,600 --> 01:03:47,000
Speaker 4: were founded in two thousand and four in San Francisco

1126
01:03:47,400 --> 01:03:51,600
Speaker 4: by a woman named Nicole Dayton and Robert Candell, and

1127
01:03:51,640 --> 01:03:56,160
Speaker 4: they offered, look at this orgasmic meditation. All right, it's

1128
01:03:56,480 --> 01:04:01,320
Speaker 4: very new age, okay, orgasmic meditation. It's called OM. Okay,

1129
01:04:01,360 --> 01:04:03,120
Speaker 4: so that's how I'm going to refer to it, all right,

1130
01:04:03,760 --> 01:04:08,040
Speaker 4: OM and other sexual wellness courses, and it claimed to

1131
01:04:08,080 --> 01:04:12,280
Speaker 4: help participants heal trauma and connect to your partner spiritually.

1132
01:04:13,080 --> 01:04:16,000
Speaker 4: Federal prosecutors have said that from two thousand and six

1133
01:04:16,160 --> 01:04:20,480
Speaker 4: to twenty eighteen, Nicole Dayton and her former head of sales,

1134
01:04:21,200 --> 01:04:28,440
Speaker 4: Rachel Cherwitz, coerced employees and members into performing sexual acts

1135
01:04:28,480 --> 01:04:33,680
Speaker 4: and unpaid labor for personal and financial gain. So just

1136
01:04:33,720 --> 01:04:36,480
Speaker 4: a few days ago, on March thirtieth, both of them

1137
01:04:36,560 --> 01:04:40,680
Speaker 4: were sentenced in federal court for orchestrating this decade's long

1138
01:04:40,880 --> 01:04:45,080
Speaker 4: forced labor scheme. Now here's the background, all right. In

1139
01:04:45,120 --> 01:04:48,200
Speaker 4: two thousand and four, Nicole Dayton and Robert Kendall, they

1140
01:04:48,280 --> 01:04:51,000
Speaker 4: co founded this One Taste in San Francisco, and they

1141
01:04:51,040 --> 01:04:54,480
Speaker 4: offered workshops and classes on this OM. All right. Now,

1142
01:04:54,600 --> 01:04:58,760
Speaker 4: OM is defined as one participant and it's typically a male,

1143
01:04:59,440 --> 01:05:02,200
Speaker 4: and they still emulate the gentle area of a female

1144
01:05:02,200 --> 01:05:06,560
Speaker 4: participant while she focuses on the sensations. Okay, I know

1145
01:05:06,800 --> 01:05:08,400
Speaker 4: it's very this is a lot.

1146
01:05:08,560 --> 01:05:12,360
Speaker 3: I'm not I hear about it.

1147
01:05:12,440 --> 01:05:13,560
Speaker 7: Let alone go to it.

1148
01:05:13,640 --> 01:05:14,400
Speaker 4: Listen, I am.

1149
01:05:14,440 --> 01:05:18,880
Speaker 3: Do you imagine getting stimulated?

1150
01:05:19,680 --> 01:05:23,320
Speaker 4: You're getting stimulated and you're supposed to fit these weird sensations.

1151
01:05:23,760 --> 01:05:24,000
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1152
01:05:24,800 --> 01:05:33,080
Speaker 4: Now, employees were required to give both receiving and simulation regularly.

1153
01:05:33,160 --> 01:05:38,960
Speaker 4: Employees are so yeah, they're like conducting the giving and

1154
01:05:39,000 --> 01:05:41,520
Speaker 4: the receiving as part of being an employee.

1155
01:05:42,720 --> 01:05:44,760
Speaker 7: How does that job interview go down?

1156
01:05:44,840 --> 01:05:49,439
Speaker 2: Like, how does that even no go down?

1157
01:05:49,560 --> 01:05:51,600
Speaker 4: Listen, Stephanie, you're going straight to jail for that.

1158
01:05:52,200 --> 01:05:56,360
Speaker 7: Okay, sorry to jail, kidding, I'm kidding, right.

1159
01:05:56,400 --> 01:06:01,120
Speaker 4: So, employees were required to give and receive stimstally regularly, okay,

1160
01:06:01,280 --> 01:06:05,200
Speaker 4: sometimes with strangers. You guys like this is their partner.

1161
01:06:05,600 --> 01:06:05,960
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1162
01:06:06,040 --> 01:06:08,880
Speaker 2: By the way, you are very reputable people to like

1163
01:06:09,000 --> 01:06:12,080
Speaker 2: air quotes. This is crazy talk to me. Can you

1164
01:06:12,120 --> 01:06:14,320
Speaker 2: imagine this is where your brand goes and how you're

1165
01:06:14,320 --> 01:06:17,000
Speaker 2: going to earn an income is to have this weird

1166
01:06:17,280 --> 01:06:17,960
Speaker 2: sex cult.

1167
01:06:18,520 --> 01:06:18,720
Speaker 6: Yeah.

1168
01:06:18,720 --> 01:06:22,840
Speaker 4: They would do live demonstrations. What live demonstrations so that

1169
01:06:22,840 --> 01:06:24,640
Speaker 4: people's doing weird class?

1170
01:06:25,240 --> 01:06:25,800
Speaker 3: I don't know.

1171
01:06:25,880 --> 01:06:29,480
Speaker 4: So the Nicole Dato and she's the founder. She received

1172
01:06:29,480 --> 01:06:32,400
Speaker 4: at least eight hundred thousand dollars from their then boyfriend

1173
01:06:33,240 --> 01:06:37,280
Speaker 4: Russy Jones to like create and support one taste. In exchange,

1174
01:06:38,240 --> 01:06:43,480
Speaker 4: she coerced members to provide sexual services for him. So

1175
01:06:43,560 --> 01:06:46,320
Speaker 4: you signed that for these classes, right, you sign up

1176
01:06:46,320 --> 01:06:49,280
Speaker 4: for these classes, And she's like, you know, to get

1177
01:06:49,320 --> 01:06:53,120
Speaker 4: practice on focusing on these sensations and whatnot that you

1178
01:06:53,160 --> 01:06:58,880
Speaker 4: know you're getting. You have to service my boyfriend and

1179
01:06:59,320 --> 01:07:03,480
Speaker 4: focus on these you know things, and then also investors

1180
01:07:03,520 --> 01:07:07,000
Speaker 4: and clients. Would you know some would force to live

1181
01:07:07,040 --> 01:07:11,760
Speaker 4: with with Rhys Jones, the boyfriend as hands performing. Yes,

1182
01:07:11,920 --> 01:07:16,480
Speaker 4: this was the whole thing. Listen, And they even performed

1183
01:07:16,600 --> 01:07:20,720
Speaker 4: domestic tasks under his direction. And I'm guessing that means laundry,

1184
01:07:20,880 --> 01:07:27,560
Speaker 4: picking up groceries, things of that nature. Victims faced psychological manipulation,

1185
01:07:28,240 --> 01:07:34,680
Speaker 4: emotional abuse, coercion, financially surveillance. They were under surveillance. This

1186
01:07:34,720 --> 01:07:40,360
Speaker 4: is like scientology level stuff right in doctrination, sleep deprivation,

1187
01:07:41,040 --> 01:07:43,480
Speaker 4: and communal living. So I mean this was like a

1188
01:07:43,640 --> 01:07:48,400
Speaker 4: legit cult, like they were living communally. She was having

1189
01:07:48,480 --> 01:07:53,080
Speaker 4: members of this cult service her boyfriend sexually and domestically,

1190
01:07:53,160 --> 01:07:56,320
Speaker 4: like with these tasks that I just explained, all because

1191
01:07:56,640 --> 01:07:59,000
Speaker 4: he loaned her eight hundred thousand dollars to start this

1192
01:07:59,120 --> 01:08:01,160
Speaker 4: venture in the.

1193
01:08:01,160 --> 01:08:03,360
Speaker 3: World would she do this to other women?

1194
01:08:03,480 --> 01:08:04,360
Speaker 4: Like can you imagine?

1195
01:08:04,480 --> 01:08:10,840
Speaker 2: Sign what a monster for just allowing this monstrous behavior

1196
01:08:10,920 --> 01:08:14,120
Speaker 2: to occur? But how does it? It's like I don't know,

1197
01:08:14,680 --> 01:08:16,599
Speaker 2: I will not understand even a little.

1198
01:08:17,280 --> 01:08:19,639
Speaker 4: Well, okay, put yourself in the position of somebody that's

1199
01:08:19,680 --> 01:08:21,240
Speaker 4: going to sign up for one of these classes to

1200
01:08:21,240 --> 01:08:21,880
Speaker 4: begin with.

1201
01:08:22,080 --> 01:08:25,439
Speaker 2: Right, like you know, people have to think what people

1202
01:08:25,520 --> 01:08:27,679
Speaker 2: and by the way, God bless I do your thing.

1203
01:08:27,960 --> 01:08:31,439
Speaker 3: I could care less. Maybe you're just feeling a little like.

1204
01:08:31,520 --> 01:08:33,800
Speaker 2: Hey, I want to learn a little more about how

1205
01:08:33,840 --> 01:08:35,280
Speaker 2: to be sexy with my partner.

1206
01:08:35,400 --> 01:08:39,040
Speaker 3: And you get lured into this weird cult. Is that possible?

1207
01:08:39,120 --> 01:08:41,120
Speaker 2: I mean, you go by the way, just going into

1208
01:08:41,120 --> 01:08:44,240
Speaker 2: the weird class, and I can't even imagine it sounds.

1209
01:08:44,280 --> 01:08:47,400
Speaker 4: So you sign up for these classes. You go sign

1210
01:08:47,640 --> 01:08:49,920
Speaker 4: make it. They're like, okay, come back at like six

1211
01:08:50,000 --> 01:08:54,639
Speaker 4: o'clock and they do a live demonstration and one of them,

1212
01:08:54,960 --> 01:08:59,760
Speaker 4: like the employees that work there, are the demonstrators. And

1213
01:08:59,840 --> 01:09:01,920
Speaker 4: you know, you're with your coworker and you're doing this

1214
01:09:01,960 --> 01:09:05,040
Speaker 4: live demonstration. I mean, listen, it's all very strange. So

1215
01:09:05,800 --> 01:09:09,400
Speaker 4: uh So they grew to New York, Los Angeles, Denver, Austin,

1216
01:09:09,560 --> 01:09:13,160
Speaker 4: and London. I mean this was international, this was international.

1217
01:09:13,600 --> 01:09:17,680
Speaker 4: They offered courses, retreats, and events focusing on this orgasmic

1218
01:09:17,800 --> 01:09:21,920
Speaker 4: meditation and other sexual practices, and they gained the attention

1219
01:09:22,040 --> 01:09:22,879
Speaker 4: of the New York.

1220
01:09:22,640 --> 01:09:25,040
Speaker 3: Times, ted celebrities.

1221
01:09:25,680 --> 01:09:28,280
Speaker 4: I mean, like you said, like you said, Steph, these

1222
01:09:28,280 --> 01:09:34,200
Speaker 4: were really like kind of respected people. So they wrote.

1223
01:09:34,520 --> 01:09:37,120
Speaker 6: Gwyneth Taltrow like promoted it on groups.

1224
01:09:37,320 --> 01:09:42,120
Speaker 13: I am not surprised by that. Unsurprised. I'm not surprised

1225
01:09:42,160 --> 01:09:47,760
Speaker 13: by that. I'm yeah, she sold like vagina candles. It's

1226
01:09:47,840 --> 01:09:48,960
Speaker 13: so strange to me.

1227
01:09:49,360 --> 01:09:51,559
Speaker 4: And then she was like, I wake up and I

1228
01:09:51,600 --> 01:09:54,840
Speaker 4: have a sip of bone broth every day and that's

1229
01:09:54,880 --> 01:09:58,840
Speaker 4: all I eat until ten o'clock at night until.

1230
01:09:58,600 --> 01:10:03,200
Speaker 3: She's naked her boyfriend breakfast that she likes to be shot,

1231
01:10:03,640 --> 01:10:06,439
Speaker 3: photograph from the back and make it cooking Gwenna, anyway,

1232
01:10:06,439 --> 01:10:07,160
Speaker 3: close your ears.

1233
01:10:07,200 --> 01:10:09,240
Speaker 7: They don't mean it. They don't mean it. They don't

1234
01:10:09,280 --> 01:10:09,639
Speaker 7: mean it.

1235
01:10:10,400 --> 01:10:11,120
Speaker 3: We love you.

1236
01:10:11,400 --> 01:10:12,639
Speaker 7: Keep goop alive.

1237
01:10:12,920 --> 01:10:15,559
Speaker 4: So there's there's a Netflix documentary about this and it's

1238
01:10:15,600 --> 01:10:19,000
Speaker 4: called orgasm Ink The Story of One Taste, and it

1239
01:10:19,120 --> 01:10:21,280
Speaker 4: was released back in twenty twenty two. I got the watches.

1240
01:10:21,320 --> 01:10:24,600
Speaker 4: I didn't even know this was done. But listen, you

1241
01:10:24,600 --> 01:10:27,120
Speaker 4: sign up for these classes, like who signs up for

1242
01:10:27,320 --> 01:10:30,639
Speaker 4: orgasmic meditation with a string? Okay, so you're a girl,

1243
01:10:30,760 --> 01:10:33,599
Speaker 4: it's just your female right. You're like, oh, I want

1244
01:10:33,640 --> 01:10:35,599
Speaker 4: to get better into in my body. You're like, I'm

1245
01:10:35,600 --> 01:10:39,800
Speaker 4: gonna go sign up for this orgasmic meditation, thinking right, thinking, oh,

1246
01:10:39,880 --> 01:10:42,760
Speaker 4: you know, a little meditation, maybe some yoga, you know,

1247
01:10:42,840 --> 01:10:46,160
Speaker 4: something like that. And you go and they're like, here's

1248
01:10:46,240 --> 01:10:49,880
Speaker 4: my employee, Brad. He's going to stimulate you, and I

1249
01:10:49,920 --> 01:10:52,559
Speaker 4: want you to focus on the sensations. What would you do.

1250
01:10:53,720 --> 01:10:54,959
Speaker 4: I would run screaming.

1251
01:10:55,160 --> 01:10:58,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, well I would also have a heart attack right there.

1252
01:10:58,840 --> 01:11:01,760
Speaker 3: And then it seems like the people you've signed up,

1253
01:11:01,920 --> 01:11:07,120
Speaker 3: what they're offering was, in addition to sexual wellness courses,

1254
01:11:07,360 --> 01:11:11,040
Speaker 3: is helping people heal trauma and next spiritually. So if

1255
01:11:11,080 --> 01:11:15,400
Speaker 3: people are going there with a longing with a hurt

1256
01:11:15,560 --> 01:11:19,280
Speaker 3: that they're like, maybe have tried so many different therapeutic modalities,

1257
01:11:19,320 --> 01:11:21,040
Speaker 3: it's like, ah, I'll try it.

1258
01:11:21,120 --> 01:11:26,400
Speaker 2: Eithery're praying on somebody who's feeling vulnerable exactly sexually already,

1259
01:11:27,320 --> 01:11:30,800
Speaker 2: right maybe maybe an abuse that's so lame exactly, Like

1260
01:11:30,840 --> 01:11:33,679
Speaker 2: maybe they're just sort of trying to really work through

1261
01:11:33,760 --> 01:11:37,000
Speaker 2: something that is very vulnerable, very deep, that they don't

1262
01:11:37,000 --> 01:11:40,360
Speaker 2: feel comfortable sharing in their family or with their friends.

1263
01:11:40,400 --> 01:11:43,479
Speaker 2: So this is a last like a last effort, and

1264
01:11:43,760 --> 01:11:45,559
Speaker 2: you know, if you're going through a crisis, you're like,

1265
01:11:45,600 --> 01:11:49,080
Speaker 2: thank god, I can go somewhere for I guess for

1266
01:11:49,160 --> 01:11:50,120
Speaker 2: a live help.

1267
01:11:51,120 --> 01:11:53,360
Speaker 6: Well yeah, probably the live part is what they threw in.

1268
01:11:53,400 --> 01:11:55,680
Speaker 9: But to your point about people who were victims, Like

1269
01:11:55,720 --> 01:11:58,760
Speaker 9: there's one woman she was a rape victim and she

1270
01:11:58,960 --> 01:12:03,120
Speaker 9: had to reenact some of the which he went through

1271
01:12:03,200 --> 01:12:06,680
Speaker 9: in front of people, and it's just it's beyond one.

1272
01:12:07,960 --> 01:12:09,080
Speaker 6: So what happens.

1273
01:12:09,520 --> 01:12:11,639
Speaker 4: What happens when you do that, you expose your trauma

1274
01:12:11,680 --> 01:12:15,880
Speaker 4: to other people. You become bonded. You trauma bond with people, right,

1275
01:12:16,360 --> 01:12:19,160
Speaker 4: So now you're trauma bonded with these other members. And

1276
01:12:19,200 --> 01:12:21,680
Speaker 4: then they're like, oh, come to the party tomorrow night.

1277
01:12:21,920 --> 01:12:23,920
Speaker 4: So then you go to the party tomorrow the next day,

1278
01:12:24,280 --> 01:12:26,719
Speaker 4: and now you know you're socially bonded to these people.

1279
01:12:26,800 --> 01:12:29,040
Speaker 4: And then they're like, oh, move in with us. So

1280
01:12:29,080 --> 01:12:31,240
Speaker 4: now you're living communally with people. And then just like,

1281
01:12:31,760 --> 01:12:36,360
Speaker 4: do me a favor. My boyfriend wants you to satisfy him.

1282
01:12:37,320 --> 01:12:38,840
Speaker 4: Can you can you go over there and take care

1283
01:12:38,880 --> 01:12:41,680
Speaker 4: of that? And you don't listen. If you don't, you're

1284
01:12:41,720 --> 01:12:44,080
Speaker 4: going to be ostracized, You're going to lose your entire

1285
01:12:44,120 --> 01:12:47,120
Speaker 4: social circle, you might even lose where you live because

1286
01:12:47,120 --> 01:12:50,479
Speaker 4: you're living communally with all these people. And so it's

1287
01:12:50,760 --> 01:12:55,320
Speaker 4: that's the issue. So in twenty eighteen, Blue Lee News

1288
01:12:55,760 --> 01:12:59,840
Speaker 4: Bloomberg News did an expose okay, and prior to me,

1289
01:13:00,200 --> 01:13:04,519
Speaker 4: excuse me, prior media coverage raised allegations of cult like

1290
01:13:04,560 --> 01:13:08,559
Speaker 4: operations obviously right and abuse and that prompted the FBI

1291
01:13:09,240 --> 01:13:12,160
Speaker 4: to get involved, to look at like, is this sex trafficking?

1292
01:13:12,920 --> 01:13:15,960
Speaker 4: You know, there's some prostitution and labor laws happening here.

1293
01:13:16,040 --> 01:13:19,599
Speaker 4: There's some issues here. And in June of twenty twenty five,

1294
01:13:19,680 --> 01:13:24,400
Speaker 4: so seven years later, after a five week federal trial

1295
01:13:25,360 --> 01:13:29,320
Speaker 4: in Brooklyn, because again sex trafficking, it's international, this is

1296
01:13:29,360 --> 01:13:32,280
Speaker 4: going to be a federal case. This federal trial happened

1297
01:13:32,320 --> 01:13:36,719
Speaker 4: in Brooklyn, a jury convicted Nicole Dayton and the former

1298
01:13:36,760 --> 01:13:40,479
Speaker 4: head of sales, Rachel, of forced labor and conspiracy. And

1299
01:13:40,520 --> 01:13:42,920
Speaker 4: on March thirtieth, they were sentenced. What do you think

1300
01:13:42,960 --> 01:13:43,720
Speaker 4: their sentence was?

1301
01:13:45,200 --> 01:13:50,080
Speaker 3: Okay, it's gonna be low. I'm gonna guess community service.

1302
01:13:50,880 --> 01:13:55,040
Speaker 4: No, not that it's okay. So Nicole, she's fifty eight

1303
01:13:55,080 --> 01:13:58,679
Speaker 4: years old, she was sentenced to nine years in prison.

1304
01:13:59,360 --> 01:14:02,439
Speaker 4: And the head of sales, Rachel, she's forty five. She

1305
01:14:02,600 --> 01:14:05,639
Speaker 4: was sentenced to six and a half years in prison. Now,

1306
01:14:05,680 --> 01:14:08,640
Speaker 4: the financial penalties were twelve million, and she had a

1307
01:14:08,640 --> 01:14:14,640
Speaker 4: forfeit eight hundred and eighty seven thousand dollars in restitution

1308
01:14:14,760 --> 01:14:18,160
Speaker 4: to seven different victims. So I mean there's.

1309
01:14:18,000 --> 01:14:20,559
Speaker 2: Not enough time in my opinion, No, I don't think

1310
01:14:20,560 --> 01:14:23,240
Speaker 2: that's enough time. If it's not enough time for Diddy,

1311
01:14:23,280 --> 01:14:26,240
Speaker 2: it's not enough time for her. Honestly, it's kind of

1312
01:14:26,280 --> 01:14:26,960
Speaker 2: the same rule.

1313
01:14:27,680 --> 01:14:31,040
Speaker 7: She got more time, yeah, Diddy got less.

1314
01:14:31,120 --> 01:14:34,000
Speaker 2: No, of course, well because she's a woman, and you know, right,

1315
01:14:34,080 --> 01:14:35,400
Speaker 2: that's just how the world works.

1316
01:14:35,600 --> 01:14:38,960
Speaker 4: But I just can't get for the employees, like are

1317
01:14:39,000 --> 01:14:42,160
Speaker 4: they So the employees must be part of this, right,

1318
01:14:42,200 --> 01:14:44,960
Speaker 4: they must be part of the cult, because if I

1319
01:14:45,280 --> 01:14:47,320
Speaker 4: sucked it, if I went to a job application and

1320
01:14:47,360 --> 01:14:49,360
Speaker 4: she's like, oh, you're going to be handing out towels

1321
01:14:49,400 --> 01:14:52,960
Speaker 4: to meditation class, I'd be like, okay, and then I

1322
01:14:53,000 --> 01:14:56,160
Speaker 4: show up and they're like, oh, actually you need to

1323
01:14:56,160 --> 01:15:02,240
Speaker 4: stimulate this man while he does his orgasmic meditation and creepy.

1324
01:15:01,960 --> 01:15:04,519
Speaker 2: Essential But it's very similar. It's the same playbook. You

1325
01:15:04,600 --> 01:15:07,840
Speaker 2: know again about Jeffrey Epstein. Think about it. He has

1326
01:15:07,880 --> 01:15:08,960
Speaker 2: a female.

1327
01:15:08,520 --> 01:15:11,519
Speaker 3: Cover and by the way, did he have this too?

1328
01:15:11,800 --> 01:15:13,760
Speaker 7: Did he have that Christina kk.

1329
01:15:14,560 --> 01:15:17,519
Speaker 2: Who we will likely you know, be hearing more about

1330
01:15:17,720 --> 01:15:19,559
Speaker 2: as civil lawsuits kick in.

1331
01:15:20,120 --> 01:15:21,080
Speaker 3: But here's did he?

1332
01:15:21,439 --> 01:15:24,920
Speaker 2: And he has a female at his side running the world,

1333
01:15:25,040 --> 01:15:29,519
Speaker 2: which gives you know, air quotes. Victims feel like they're safe,

1334
01:15:29,560 --> 01:15:32,200
Speaker 2: like there's a woman looking out for them. Jeffrey Epstein

1335
01:15:32,280 --> 01:15:35,640
Speaker 2: has Gilaine Maxwell. We know Larry Rudolph, the guy that

1336
01:15:35,760 --> 01:15:39,320
Speaker 2: not Larry Rudolph, Larry Rubin. He is the New York

1337
01:15:39,439 --> 01:15:44,280
Speaker 2: City big financier man. Big trial happening soon too. He

1338
01:15:44,320 --> 01:15:47,920
Speaker 2: had a right hand woman, a female assistant, Jennifer Powers,

1339
01:15:47,960 --> 01:15:51,840
Speaker 2: who allegedly kind of set the stage for all of

1340
01:15:51,880 --> 01:15:56,439
Speaker 2: these other women. They're victims now sometimes that is that

1341
01:15:56,640 --> 01:16:00,000
Speaker 2: a part of a cycle. Were they victims and there

1342
01:16:00,080 --> 01:16:05,160
Speaker 2: or they become the victimizers? Possibly, but they're much older now,

1343
01:16:05,200 --> 01:16:10,120
Speaker 2: and I do think that they're that's really complicated stuff.

1344
01:16:10,600 --> 01:16:12,760
Speaker 4: I think that probably happens more than we know right

1345
01:16:12,800 --> 01:16:16,280
Speaker 4: where the victims also because it's like I don't think

1346
01:16:16,320 --> 01:16:19,559
Speaker 4: they do it because they're evil people. I think that's

1347
01:16:19,640 --> 01:16:23,080
Speaker 4: just what they know. They what they become like, this

1348
01:16:23,200 --> 01:16:25,840
Speaker 4: is life, this is how life works, right, that's right.

1349
01:16:26,080 --> 01:16:28,880
Speaker 4: This happened to me and it's normal normal. So it

1350
01:16:28,920 --> 01:16:31,120
Speaker 4: becomes normalized, and.

1351
01:16:31,320 --> 01:16:35,320
Speaker 2: It becomes like sort of a maybe a cry internally

1352
01:16:35,400 --> 01:16:38,960
Speaker 2: to say like this is normal, right, So something healing

1353
01:16:39,120 --> 01:16:42,720
Speaker 2: off and I need to look for reassurance in the

1354
01:16:42,760 --> 01:16:47,160
Speaker 2: world that I'm safe and that I've made a decent decision.

1355
01:16:47,160 --> 01:16:48,200
Speaker 7: And this is a tough spot.

1356
01:16:48,240 --> 01:16:51,800
Speaker 2: This is why, specifically in this category, talking about it

1357
01:16:51,840 --> 01:16:56,559
Speaker 2: is so important because again, people usually you know, if

1358
01:16:56,600 --> 01:16:59,919
Speaker 2: not given an outlet, that's where they're repeating of behavior

1359
01:17:00,200 --> 01:17:00,759
Speaker 2: can happen.

1360
01:17:01,520 --> 01:17:04,680
Speaker 4: Right, Well, if anybody's interested, I mean, listen, if you

1361
01:17:04,680 --> 01:17:08,840
Speaker 4: want to sign up for classes, there's still an operation.

1362
01:17:09,040 --> 01:17:10,360
Speaker 6: How are they still operating?

1363
01:17:11,120 --> 01:17:11,280
Speaker 12: Well?

1364
01:17:11,280 --> 01:17:15,200
Speaker 4: There they continued now as the Institute of O m

1365
01:17:15,479 --> 01:17:19,160
Speaker 4: okay and they continue to promote orgasmic meditation. Now, I'm

1366
01:17:19,200 --> 01:17:23,519
Speaker 4: sure their policies have changed. I'm sure employees aren't, you know,

1367
01:17:23,720 --> 01:17:27,200
Speaker 4: performing some of the acts and doing domestic tasks for

1368
01:17:27,360 --> 01:17:32,240
Speaker 4: the owner's boyfriend, satisfying sexually. You know, I'm sure those

1369
01:17:32,280 --> 01:17:33,120
Speaker 4: things have changed.

1370
01:17:33,960 --> 01:17:37,880
Speaker 2: How is that different than prostitution? So if that's what

1371
01:17:37,920 --> 01:17:41,760
Speaker 2: they were, somebody is doing something in a wellness you

1372
01:17:41,920 --> 01:17:47,280
Speaker 2: know space and being paid for you know, sexual conduct

1373
01:17:47,360 --> 01:17:48,040
Speaker 2: of any way.

1374
01:17:48,120 --> 01:17:52,120
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, it's it's one hundred percent prostitution. And that's

1375
01:17:52,200 --> 01:17:55,040
Speaker 4: why they were looked at initially. That's why the FBI

1376
01:17:55,080 --> 01:17:59,520
Speaker 4: got involved too, because it was interstate sex trafficking basically unbelievable,

1377
01:17:59,560 --> 01:18:03,040
Speaker 4: just like did just yeah Diddy. So yeah, if you're interested,

1378
01:18:03,120 --> 01:18:05,920
Speaker 4: look them up the Institute of OHM. Maybe I'll sign

1379
01:18:05,960 --> 01:18:06,800
Speaker 4: up for a class.

1380
01:18:07,560 --> 01:18:11,840
Speaker 2: Interesting to breaking that down for us. Very interesting. But

1381
01:18:12,120 --> 01:18:14,519
Speaker 2: I can't believe I'd never heard of this. I mean

1382
01:18:14,840 --> 01:18:18,080
Speaker 2: neither did I. And there's like a whole Netflix documentary again.

1383
01:18:18,120 --> 01:18:21,120
Speaker 2: It's called Orgasm Inc. The Story of One Taste, and

1384
01:18:21,160 --> 01:18:22,960
Speaker 2: it was released back in twenty twenty two, so it's

1385
01:18:22,960 --> 01:18:23,960
Speaker 2: probably still on Netflix.

1386
01:18:24,439 --> 01:18:24,679
Speaker 12: Yeah.

1387
01:18:25,160 --> 01:18:29,200
Speaker 3: Interesting, check it out. Well, listen, do stick around. We

1388
01:18:29,280 --> 01:18:31,800
Speaker 3: have a ton more to dig into, and it's all

1389
01:18:31,880 --> 01:18:35,519
Speaker 3: topics that you want to be talking about. We have

1390
01:18:35,680 --> 01:18:40,840
Speaker 3: got your talk backs, and yeah, you've given us theories

1391
01:18:41,080 --> 01:18:44,880
Speaker 3: on everything we've been discussing. Keep it here. True Crime tonight.

1392
01:18:45,280 --> 01:18:47,759
Speaker 3: We are talking true crime all the time.

1393
01:18:59,000 --> 01:19:02,000
Speaker 2: Welcome back to your crime tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking

1394
01:19:02,000 --> 01:19:04,919
Speaker 2: true crime all the time. I'm staff here with Courtney

1395
01:19:05,400 --> 01:19:08,759
Speaker 2: and Body and Sam and Adam have been very quiet tonight.

1396
01:19:09,479 --> 01:19:10,679
Speaker 7: What is happening up there?

1397
01:19:11,240 --> 01:19:12,080
Speaker 3: Are you guys good?

1398
01:19:13,000 --> 01:19:13,599
Speaker 4: Yeah, we're good.

1399
01:19:13,880 --> 01:19:18,000
Speaker 3: Just some heavy, heavy cases to digest. Yeah, very very true,

1400
01:19:18,360 --> 01:19:19,120
Speaker 3: very very true.

1401
01:19:19,640 --> 01:19:22,320
Speaker 2: Well they are standing by eight eight eight three one

1402
01:19:22,479 --> 01:19:24,120
Speaker 2: crime and we're loving the talkbacks.

1403
01:19:24,120 --> 01:19:25,599
Speaker 7: In fact, let's go to one right now.

1404
01:19:26,160 --> 01:19:29,360
Speaker 4: I have a question for body specifically, how do you

1405
01:19:29,520 --> 01:19:33,759
Speaker 4: determine or what is your criteria for you personally taking

1406
01:19:33,800 --> 01:19:38,800
Speaker 4: on cases to look into? Great question. I get a

1407
01:19:38,840 --> 01:19:42,960
Speaker 4: lot of emails. I get probably five or six emails

1408
01:19:42,960 --> 01:19:45,800
Speaker 4: a week of cases to look at, Like I'm not

1409
01:19:45,840 --> 01:19:51,040
Speaker 4: even kidding and the problem okay, So I like cases

1410
01:19:51,040 --> 01:19:55,040
Speaker 4: where there's a mystery, where there's something to you know,

1411
01:19:55,400 --> 01:19:59,439
Speaker 4: figure out. The cases that I get sent are all

1412
01:19:59,600 --> 01:20:02,880
Speaker 4: I know who it is like them, you know what

1413
01:20:02,880 --> 01:20:06,840
Speaker 4: I mean, Like the police is already resolved. It's already resolved,

1414
01:20:07,760 --> 01:20:14,160
Speaker 4: or you know, they have evidence that it's this person

1415
01:20:14,320 --> 01:20:16,000
Speaker 4: or you know whatever. And it's like, well, what do

1416
01:20:16,040 --> 01:20:18,439
Speaker 4: you want me to do? Like I have something to do?

1417
01:20:18,800 --> 01:20:19,000
Speaker 3: Right?

1418
01:20:19,760 --> 01:20:22,599
Speaker 4: Sure, listen. I mean they made an entire documentary about

1419
01:20:22,600 --> 01:20:24,360
Speaker 4: how the cops don't listen to me, Like I don't

1420
01:20:24,360 --> 01:20:27,080
Speaker 4: have a special voice like that the cops listen to

1421
01:20:27,479 --> 01:20:28,720
Speaker 4: It's proven, you know.

1422
01:20:28,720 --> 01:20:29,800
Speaker 3: What I mean? But you do?

1423
01:20:30,320 --> 01:20:31,479
Speaker 6: You do?

1424
01:20:31,479 --> 01:20:32,120
Speaker 3: You know what I mean?

1425
01:20:32,120 --> 01:20:34,960
Speaker 4: Though, But I understand what you're saying. Of course, So

1426
01:20:35,080 --> 01:20:37,800
Speaker 4: I like, I don't listen. I'm not saying I'm using

1427
01:20:37,880 --> 01:20:40,439
Speaker 4: the word like, but you know, please take it with

1428
01:20:40,479 --> 01:20:44,360
Speaker 4: what I mean. It interested in cases where there's an

1429
01:20:44,439 --> 01:20:47,800
Speaker 4: air of mystery, there's something to figure out. And of

1430
01:20:47,840 --> 01:20:49,960
Speaker 4: course you know, I'm not boots on the ground, you know,

1431
01:20:50,000 --> 01:20:52,879
Speaker 4: I have I have two jobs, I have two dogs.

1432
01:20:52,960 --> 01:20:56,240
Speaker 4: I live alone. I can't be traveling the country. You know,

1433
01:20:56,600 --> 01:20:59,640
Speaker 4: she lives with under a lot of security.

1434
01:21:00,920 --> 01:21:02,480
Speaker 7: That out immediately.

1435
01:21:03,600 --> 01:21:07,200
Speaker 2: In fact, we were just talking about many many people

1436
01:21:07,320 --> 01:21:13,000
Speaker 2: that she lives with, all who have guns, right, you know,

1437
01:21:13,120 --> 01:21:14,080
Speaker 2: the best of the best.

1438
01:21:15,600 --> 01:21:16,760
Speaker 7: So so you know, I.

1439
01:21:17,520 --> 01:21:19,840
Speaker 4: Like cases too where it's you know, I can there's

1440
01:21:19,960 --> 01:21:22,960
Speaker 4: enough to look at online, you know, because it's hard,

1441
01:21:23,120 --> 01:21:26,280
Speaker 4: you know, if if there's nothing online for me to

1442
01:21:26,320 --> 01:21:29,360
Speaker 4: even do, right, if I can't pull records, if I can't,

1443
01:21:29,600 --> 01:21:30,639
Speaker 4: you know, that's right.

1444
01:21:31,240 --> 01:21:34,760
Speaker 2: Those Oftentimes the boots in the ground too is kind

1445
01:21:34,760 --> 01:21:39,240
Speaker 2: of needed because people just it's easier to ignore the

1446
01:21:39,479 --> 01:21:40,719
Speaker 2: email or the phone call.

1447
01:21:41,360 --> 01:21:46,479
Speaker 4: Absolutely absolutely so the case. So the criteria has to

1448
01:21:46,520 --> 01:21:51,120
Speaker 4: be it's a mystery, there's no you know, uh known

1449
01:21:51,200 --> 01:21:54,120
Speaker 4: suspect or you know a lot of the emails I get,

1450
01:21:54,120 --> 01:21:57,719
Speaker 4: are you know my neighbor ties up as dog? Okay,

1451
01:21:58,520 --> 01:22:02,200
Speaker 4: well you know yeah, I get a lot of that,

1452
01:22:03,520 --> 01:22:06,160
Speaker 4: and I'm like, well, you know who it is? You

1453
01:22:06,160 --> 01:22:07,680
Speaker 4: you know, what do you want me to do? What

1454
01:22:07,720 --> 01:22:08,240
Speaker 4: do you want me?

1455
01:22:08,680 --> 01:22:10,800
Speaker 2: Because you can't do that with your neighbor. It could

1456
01:22:10,840 --> 01:22:16,759
Speaker 2: really escalate. We cover these cases, Oh, the dogs really

1457
01:22:17,240 --> 01:22:17,920
Speaker 2: can heat up.

1458
01:22:19,439 --> 01:22:23,080
Speaker 4: It literally just to do Las Vegas. I want to

1459
01:22:23,120 --> 01:22:24,880
Speaker 4: talk about this case in Vegas that just happened to

1460
01:22:24,880 --> 01:22:27,479
Speaker 4: a neighbor pulled a gun on her neighbor and.

1461
01:22:27,520 --> 01:22:28,400
Speaker 3: Kill the pastor.

1462
01:22:29,240 --> 01:22:33,760
Speaker 4: So I do understand that it can happen IM for sure,

1463
01:22:33,800 --> 01:22:35,040
Speaker 4: but listen.

1464
01:22:35,000 --> 01:22:35,719
Speaker 7: You're not a cop.

1465
01:22:36,320 --> 01:22:37,040
Speaker 6: I'm not a cop.

1466
01:22:37,680 --> 01:22:40,040
Speaker 4: Yeah, I know what your neighbor's doing.

1467
01:22:40,040 --> 01:22:41,040
Speaker 3: What am I? You know what I mean?

1468
01:22:41,080 --> 01:22:43,040
Speaker 4: What am I going to do for you? You know

1469
01:22:43,040 --> 01:22:45,160
Speaker 4: what I mean? So I like where there's an air

1470
01:22:45,200 --> 01:22:50,360
Speaker 4: of mystery, there's actionable intel and something.

1471
01:22:50,439 --> 01:22:51,840
Speaker 7: What do they want you to do? They want you

1472
01:22:51,880 --> 01:22:53,040
Speaker 7: to go over.

1473
01:22:52,880 --> 01:22:55,559
Speaker 4: There and tell a lot of time. I don't know,

1474
01:22:55,720 --> 01:22:58,960
Speaker 4: Like they're just like, what's their request? I don't know

1475
01:22:59,280 --> 01:23:00,639
Speaker 4: it's I was just.

1476
01:23:03,520 --> 01:23:06,960
Speaker 6: Like I could go three case likes someone missing.

1477
01:23:07,200 --> 01:23:09,920
Speaker 9: Maybe that's a world where there's a mystery that you

1478
01:23:09,920 --> 01:23:11,080
Speaker 9: can help with some resolution.

1479
01:23:11,160 --> 01:23:11,640
Speaker 6: Is that the kind of.

1480
01:23:11,640 --> 01:23:15,439
Speaker 4: Stuff Open investigations are really difficult too, because you can't

1481
01:23:15,479 --> 01:23:19,280
Speaker 4: foia anything. You know, and listen in cases where there's

1482
01:23:19,320 --> 01:23:21,919
Speaker 4: a lot of eyes on it is also very difficult

1483
01:23:21,960 --> 01:23:27,519
Speaker 4: because it gets very muddy with misinformation, right because you guys,

1484
01:23:27,680 --> 01:23:29,840
Speaker 4: I really think this true crime influencer thing is going

1485
01:23:29,920 --> 01:23:34,040
Speaker 4: to be a problem, like I do, and a lot

1486
01:23:34,040 --> 01:23:37,840
Speaker 4: of things are muddy. There's a lot of agendas, some

1487
01:23:37,920 --> 01:23:43,920
Speaker 4: are political, some are you know, politically driven, and I'm

1488
01:23:43,920 --> 01:23:45,559
Speaker 4: just saying, keep an eye out for that kind of stuff,

1489
01:23:45,640 --> 01:23:47,400
Speaker 4: keep an eye out for the misinformation. But when the

1490
01:23:47,439 --> 01:23:51,080
Speaker 4: case is like a really big case, too much information

1491
01:23:51,120 --> 01:23:54,360
Speaker 4: can muddy the water. So I call that noise. Noise

1492
01:23:54,479 --> 01:23:57,559
Speaker 4: in the case and determining what's real and what's not

1493
01:23:57,600 --> 01:23:59,960
Speaker 4: real is difficult and open investigating, you know, because it's open,

1494
01:24:00,920 --> 01:24:01,720
Speaker 4: are you're not going to just.

1495
01:24:01,720 --> 01:24:03,720
Speaker 6: Still determined figure it out? Can?

1496
01:24:03,760 --> 01:24:07,440
Speaker 9: I ask Stephan Courtney the same question, like with Katie's studios,

1497
01:24:07,560 --> 01:24:11,680
Speaker 9: what cases or how do you determine which cases.

1498
01:24:11,320 --> 01:24:14,639
Speaker 6: You look into and what to create a podcast about?

1499
01:24:15,760 --> 01:24:16,080
Speaker 7: Same?

1500
01:24:16,200 --> 01:24:19,800
Speaker 2: I think it's very similar criteria. I mean, look open investigations,

1501
01:24:19,840 --> 01:24:22,439
Speaker 2: I think primarily is what we focus on.

1502
01:24:22,640 --> 01:24:24,360
Speaker 7: So they're complicated.

1503
01:24:24,400 --> 01:24:27,719
Speaker 2: I wish that was a better answer, because they're harder

1504
01:24:27,760 --> 01:24:30,640
Speaker 2: to make, you know, they're fraught with legal concerns, you

1505
01:24:30,760 --> 01:24:35,320
Speaker 2: have to you don't want to interrupt an investigation in

1506
01:24:35,400 --> 01:24:37,640
Speaker 2: any way, shape or form. So you want to be

1507
01:24:37,680 --> 01:24:41,720
Speaker 2: working alongside law enforcement, and at the same time you

1508
01:24:41,760 --> 01:24:44,639
Speaker 2: want to be completely indifferent and make sure you have

1509
01:24:44,800 --> 01:24:49,360
Speaker 2: all sides, which can be very, very sensitive. And you

1510
01:24:49,400 --> 01:24:52,160
Speaker 2: also want to make sure if there is new developments

1511
01:24:52,240 --> 01:24:56,000
Speaker 2: or new information that it you know, was all under

1512
01:24:56,280 --> 01:25:01,240
Speaker 2: the most honest of circumstances, because sometimes information comes out.

1513
01:25:01,280 --> 01:25:02,519
Speaker 7: That's why we've talked about this.

1514
01:25:02,640 --> 01:25:05,280
Speaker 2: You know, people getting paid tons of money to sit

1515
01:25:05,360 --> 01:25:09,000
Speaker 2: down for an interview. You know, of course victims deserve that,

1516
01:25:09,080 --> 01:25:12,800
Speaker 2: but sometimes, if you think about it later, if there

1517
01:25:12,920 --> 01:25:17,240
Speaker 2: is something that comes out of a documentary that you're making,

1518
01:25:17,640 --> 01:25:19,360
Speaker 2: it has to hold up in court for it to

1519
01:25:19,400 --> 01:25:21,920
Speaker 2: have value. And if they're like, oh, you paid this person,

1520
01:25:22,439 --> 01:25:25,000
Speaker 2: how do you know that they're not lying on the

1521
01:25:25,040 --> 01:25:27,920
Speaker 2: stand because they were paid to have an opinion. This

1522
01:25:28,000 --> 01:25:31,080
Speaker 2: goes back to the influencer thing again. You know, people

1523
01:25:31,120 --> 01:25:34,639
Speaker 2: have to sort of share in the spirit of sharing

1524
01:25:34,800 --> 01:25:38,080
Speaker 2: for the betterment of others, which is really which is

1525
01:25:38,120 --> 01:25:41,479
Speaker 2: really helpful. I mean, I think people sharing their stories

1526
01:25:41,479 --> 01:25:44,160
Speaker 2: and others getting to hear stories painful as they may

1527
01:25:44,200 --> 01:25:49,559
Speaker 2: be really do help the person who's you know, giving

1528
01:25:49,600 --> 01:25:52,920
Speaker 2: their heart and also helps a lot of others to

1529
01:25:52,960 --> 01:25:53,280
Speaker 2: hear it.

1530
01:25:53,439 --> 01:25:54,880
Speaker 7: We're not as alone as we think.

1531
01:25:55,240 --> 01:25:57,000
Speaker 4: Well, yeah, and you know, you bring up a good point.

1532
01:25:57,000 --> 01:25:58,439
Speaker 4: I'm sorry, Courtney, you were going to say something.

1533
01:25:58,479 --> 01:26:00,320
Speaker 3: Oh, I was going to add one more thing to

1534
01:26:00,320 --> 01:26:03,920
Speaker 3: what you both said, which is just cases that either

1535
01:26:04,000 --> 01:26:07,000
Speaker 3: if it's something it's a little bit of a gut

1536
01:26:07,120 --> 01:26:12,439
Speaker 3: of oh, it strikes some nerve, something maybe never heard of,

1537
01:26:12,880 --> 01:26:17,640
Speaker 3: never thought of, never considered, and like an area of explanation,

1538
01:26:17,880 --> 01:26:22,479
Speaker 3: exploration of just and yeah, many different things like that

1539
01:26:23,680 --> 01:26:26,200
Speaker 3: and common to play of like oh my goodness, there's

1540
01:26:26,200 --> 01:26:29,920
Speaker 3: something to look into on a whole lot of levels

1541
01:26:30,040 --> 01:26:32,000
Speaker 3: which can then sustain.

1542
01:26:33,720 --> 01:26:39,040
Speaker 2: I'm obsessed with ordinary people like alous rhymes that you're

1543
01:26:39,080 --> 01:26:40,880
Speaker 2: just like they would have snuck right by me.

1544
01:26:42,200 --> 01:26:44,040
Speaker 6: Like a Brian Colberger kind of person.

1545
01:26:44,160 --> 01:26:47,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I personally have dedicated a lot of

1546
01:26:47,320 --> 01:26:48,520
Speaker 2: time to Brian Coberger.

1547
01:26:49,320 --> 01:26:50,559
Speaker 7: He would have snuck right by me.

1548
01:26:51,400 --> 01:26:54,320
Speaker 3: And that's why Kimberly let that case go. He doesn't

1549
01:26:54,360 --> 01:26:56,240
Speaker 3: really fit the scary.

1550
01:26:55,920 --> 01:26:56,960
Speaker 7: Image in my head.

1551
01:26:58,120 --> 01:27:01,920
Speaker 2: There's nothing super obvious to point too. There's not you know,

1552
01:27:02,200 --> 01:27:05,919
Speaker 2: not that there's ever anything to point two. But sometimes

1553
01:27:05,920 --> 01:27:09,320
Speaker 2: there are you know, layers of decisions that maybe become

1554
01:27:09,360 --> 01:27:12,200
Speaker 2: bad decisions added with an addiction, adding with this, and

1555
01:27:12,680 --> 01:27:18,439
Speaker 2: the pileon can lead to you know, murder, can you imagine?

1556
01:27:18,560 --> 01:27:21,320
Speaker 2: And then there is other cases Pie County, like you'll

1557
01:27:21,360 --> 01:27:24,320
Speaker 2: never Most of the cases that I think I've personally

1558
01:27:24,400 --> 01:27:28,439
Speaker 2: become obsessed with is are cases where it could just

1559
01:27:28,479 --> 01:27:32,479
Speaker 2: be the person next to you online at target right,

1560
01:27:33,400 --> 01:27:36,599
Speaker 2: that you ord with in a cubicle, just ordinary people.

1561
01:27:37,360 --> 01:27:41,360
Speaker 4: I agree. I also really find that I like cases

1562
01:27:41,400 --> 01:27:45,240
Speaker 4: to look at where there's some sort of imbalance of power. Yeah,

1563
01:27:45,360 --> 01:27:47,600
Speaker 4: like for instance, the cats, you know, like you know,

1564
01:27:47,960 --> 01:27:51,920
Speaker 4: sure you know there's an imbalance of power, or you know,

1565
01:27:52,240 --> 01:27:57,360
Speaker 4: marginalize people. You know that if I could lend my

1566
01:27:57,640 --> 01:28:03,280
Speaker 4: voice and face, you know, to amplify those kinds of cases,

1567
01:28:03,320 --> 01:28:06,400
Speaker 4: I really, I really do like to do that, you

1568
01:28:06,439 --> 01:28:10,280
Speaker 4: know so true? Yeah, I find you both.

1569
01:28:10,080 --> 01:28:10,960
Speaker 7: Do that so well.

1570
01:28:11,080 --> 01:28:14,919
Speaker 2: In fact, it's yeah, it is, it's really important.

1571
01:28:15,080 --> 01:28:18,080
Speaker 3: I'm back at it. It's a collect right, right.

1572
01:28:18,600 --> 01:28:21,400
Speaker 4: And like when we were approached by Netflix to do

1573
01:28:21,520 --> 01:28:23,760
Speaker 4: the documentary Don't Have with Cats and whatnot, you know,

1574
01:28:23,840 --> 01:28:25,639
Speaker 4: of course we were like, how much are we gonna

1575
01:28:25,640 --> 01:28:27,200
Speaker 4: get made? You know, how much money were gonna make?

1576
01:28:27,200 --> 01:28:27,479
Speaker 3: All this?

1577
01:28:27,640 --> 01:28:27,840
Speaker 7: Right?

1578
01:28:28,360 --> 01:28:28,960
Speaker 3: First question?

1579
01:28:29,640 --> 01:28:32,640
Speaker 4: Not you know, not necessarily first question, but it was

1580
01:28:32,680 --> 01:28:35,000
Speaker 4: a question and they were like nothing, and.

1581
01:28:35,080 --> 01:28:37,800
Speaker 3: It's a fair question. Yeah, what do you mean you're

1582
01:28:37,800 --> 01:28:38,639
Speaker 3: not going to pay us?

1583
01:28:39,280 --> 01:28:42,040
Speaker 4: And they explained what you had said, you know, steph

1584
01:28:42,120 --> 01:28:47,559
Speaker 4: about you know, when you pay people, you basically not

1585
01:28:47,680 --> 01:28:51,599
Speaker 4: become an employee of the production, but you're you you

1586
01:28:51,640 --> 01:28:54,320
Speaker 4: almost feel obligated in some way to answer questions a

1587
01:28:54,320 --> 01:28:56,240
Speaker 4: certain way to please the director here.

1588
01:28:57,000 --> 01:28:59,640
Speaker 2: So somebody might have an opinion that they're trying to

1589
01:28:59,680 --> 01:29:04,160
Speaker 2: prove in a documentary as opposed to being exactly, you know, indifferent,

1590
01:29:04,439 --> 01:29:08,959
Speaker 2: So they might be leading you in a direction exactly exactly.

1591
01:29:09,040 --> 01:29:10,960
Speaker 4: So when everybody out, you know, how much did you make?

1592
01:29:11,000 --> 01:29:13,120
Speaker 4: I'm like or they're like, sorry, I didn't watch it,

1593
01:29:13,200 --> 01:29:14,880
Speaker 4: and you know you're and I'm like, I don't care,

1594
01:29:15,040 --> 01:29:17,439
Speaker 4: you know what I mean, like I didn't get any

1595
01:29:17,479 --> 01:29:20,639
Speaker 4: money for that, And they're like what, very surprised by that,

1596
01:29:20,920 --> 01:29:23,519
Speaker 4: very surprised by them. I'm like, no, we didn't. We

1597
01:29:23,520 --> 01:29:24,640
Speaker 4: didn't get paid anything for that.

1598
01:29:25,120 --> 01:29:28,479
Speaker 2: It's also think about what a commitment it is also,

1599
01:29:28,760 --> 01:29:32,240
Speaker 2: I mean, you really are doing something to get because

1600
01:29:32,800 --> 01:29:35,520
Speaker 2: because I heard, yeah.

1601
01:29:35,680 --> 01:29:38,200
Speaker 4: Well, I wanted to talk about how animal abuse leads

1602
01:29:38,200 --> 01:29:41,559
Speaker 4: to you know. That was the big thing for both

1603
01:29:41,640 --> 01:29:45,840
Speaker 4: John Green and myself was how these warning signs are

1604
01:29:45,880 --> 01:29:51,120
Speaker 4: often not heard or misunderstood or you know, you know,

1605
01:29:51,160 --> 01:29:53,400
Speaker 4: it's just cats on the internet, you know, and and

1606
01:29:53,439 --> 01:29:55,920
Speaker 4: how the internet is the new crime scene. That's what

1607
01:29:55,960 --> 01:29:58,559
Speaker 4: we really wanted to talk about, and so we were like, okay,

1608
01:29:58,600 --> 01:30:02,000
Speaker 4: let's do it, you know. But anyway, I kind of

1609
01:30:02,000 --> 01:30:02,879
Speaker 4: went off on tangents.

1610
01:30:02,880 --> 01:30:03,080
Speaker 12: Ay.

1611
01:30:03,400 --> 01:30:05,839
Speaker 2: It's really important stuff though, And by the way, hearing

1612
01:30:05,920 --> 01:30:09,679
Speaker 2: things and seeing things is different than imagining it, right.

1613
01:30:09,760 --> 01:30:12,880
Speaker 2: So I do think all of us, even just as

1614
01:30:12,920 --> 01:30:17,400
Speaker 2: a community tonight, even you know, just discussing this right now,

1615
01:30:17,439 --> 01:30:19,240
Speaker 2: I feel like we're all kind of just throwing in

1616
01:30:19,280 --> 01:30:22,439
Speaker 2: our opinions and just scratching that cases and kind of

1617
01:30:22,479 --> 01:30:26,080
Speaker 2: helps us, you know, organize in our own lives, I think,

1618
01:30:26,479 --> 01:30:30,240
Speaker 2: which is I think why we're also fascinated with these crimes.

1619
01:30:30,800 --> 01:30:33,000
Speaker 3: I agree, I agree, let's do another.

1620
01:30:32,720 --> 01:30:38,800
Speaker 2: Talk about Okay, guys and girls, poppy rescues, Oh my goodness, yes,

1621
01:30:39,520 --> 01:30:41,960
Speaker 2: all my animals are rescues as well.

1622
01:30:42,840 --> 01:30:45,519
Speaker 3: But what about piples and paroles. I know they're really

1623
01:30:45,520 --> 01:30:47,120
Speaker 3: big on Animal Planet, and.

1624
01:30:47,520 --> 01:30:50,680
Speaker 2: There's a lot of older dogs over there that need

1625
01:30:50,760 --> 01:30:53,360
Speaker 2: lots of love and that will just.

1626
01:30:53,800 --> 01:30:57,840
Speaker 3: True crime and chill with you stuff. Have a good one.

1627
01:30:59,720 --> 01:31:03,040
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, yes, by the way, and pit bulls get

1628
01:31:03,040 --> 01:31:03,639
Speaker 2: a bad rap.

1629
01:31:03,640 --> 01:31:07,560
Speaker 7: But they're so tough there were they are. They're a

1630
01:31:07,560 --> 01:31:09,280
Speaker 7: little a bad rap.

1631
01:31:09,479 --> 01:31:12,759
Speaker 4: They absolutely get a bad rap.

1632
01:31:13,040 --> 01:31:15,479
Speaker 7: Why is that? I guess in the movie.

1633
01:31:17,040 --> 01:31:19,639
Speaker 3: There's many reasons, and for a while they were bred

1634
01:31:19,640 --> 01:31:22,799
Speaker 3: for fight. I mean, it's it's really it's it's it's.

1635
01:31:22,760 --> 01:31:26,519
Speaker 9: Horrible stems back to the owners that they try them

1636
01:31:26,560 --> 01:31:30,240
Speaker 9: to be these vicious dogs that they inevitably were not

1637
01:31:31,280 --> 01:31:31,760
Speaker 9: bred to be.

1638
01:31:32,000 --> 01:31:33,879
Speaker 6: They should they've been bred that way. Basically.

1639
01:31:35,840 --> 01:31:39,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, even that's so messy. We like yuck. Is there

1640
01:31:39,720 --> 01:31:41,439
Speaker 3: not a better way to make a book? We had

1641
01:31:41,439 --> 01:31:42,920
Speaker 3: a little dogs.

1642
01:31:43,320 --> 01:31:46,160
Speaker 4: You want a little dog, don't you need a medium sized?

1643
01:31:46,640 --> 01:31:46,880
Speaker 7: No?

1644
01:31:46,960 --> 01:31:49,439
Speaker 2: Not any tinier because you know, Dodger was kind of small.

1645
01:31:49,560 --> 01:31:53,360
Speaker 2: That was Dodger Cover your ears in Heaven. That was

1646
01:31:53,400 --> 01:31:57,200
Speaker 2: a little embarrassing. He was pretty little. Everybody gave me

1647
01:31:57,240 --> 01:32:01,640
Speaker 2: a side eye. Well, Courtney, I think that's my witness.

1648
01:32:01,840 --> 01:32:05,280
Speaker 3: Cory no, he he I mean he was so small,

1649
01:32:05,400 --> 01:32:09,559
Speaker 3: I was afraid. And my dogs are snack sized, they're small,

1650
01:32:10,240 --> 01:32:14,879
Speaker 3: Dodgy boy like when because Stephanie is obsessively clean, including

1651
01:32:15,080 --> 01:32:18,360
Speaker 3: with her dog, and Dodger was for sure cleaner than

1652
01:32:18,600 --> 01:32:21,200
Speaker 3: I am any day of the week and was forever

1653
01:32:21,280 --> 01:32:24,200
Speaker 3: having a bath. And when his hair was wet. He

1654
01:32:24,360 --> 01:32:27,920
Speaker 3: was like the size of a hot dog, like just

1655
01:32:27,960 --> 01:32:30,360
Speaker 3: a hot dog with a head. He was that body.

1656
01:32:30,520 --> 01:32:31,320
Speaker 3: You look shocked.

1657
01:32:31,640 --> 01:32:39,479
Speaker 2: He was a little he was Oh yeah.

1658
01:32:37,840 --> 01:32:40,480
Speaker 7: He would take down anybody.

1659
01:32:41,400 --> 01:32:43,120
Speaker 6: Yeah, that's the usually the toughest ones.

1660
01:32:43,120 --> 01:32:45,479
Speaker 9: But see, you're an appropriate size for a small dog,

1661
01:32:45,520 --> 01:32:48,360
Speaker 9: Like I have a neighbor who's like six', five a muscle,

1662
01:32:48,360 --> 01:32:50,120
Speaker 9: guy and he's walking with a little rat on a

1663
01:32:50,160 --> 01:32:52,880
Speaker 9: string like that you feel appropriate to, be like to

1664
01:32:52,960 --> 01:32:54,519
Speaker 9: have a fall little.

1665
01:32:54,560 --> 01:32:54,880
Speaker 3: Mouse.

1666
01:32:55,560 --> 01:32:58,840
Speaker 2: Yeah well it was a little, embarrassing and THEN i

1667
01:32:58,960 --> 01:33:01,800
Speaker 2: just leaned into it and we wore matching outfits, sometimes

1668
01:33:01,920 --> 01:33:02,320
Speaker 2: what CAN i?

1669
01:33:02,360 --> 01:33:05,040
Speaker 3: Say it, happens absolutely And i'm not ashamed of.

1670
01:33:05,080 --> 01:33:08,519
Speaker 2: It the holidays were never so rich that it's When

1671
01:33:08,720 --> 01:33:09,639
Speaker 2: dodger AND i were.

1672
01:33:09,680 --> 01:33:13,719
Speaker 3: Matching so, yeah, pitball we can have actual matching.

1673
01:33:13,720 --> 01:33:17,320
Speaker 2: OUTFITS i won't do that, AGAIN i won't do it.

1674
01:33:17,360 --> 01:33:20,240
Speaker 6: Again are you familiar with the, WELL i am.

1675
01:33:20,280 --> 01:33:22,880
Speaker 4: FAMILIAR i am familiar with. It, yeah it's a good

1676
01:33:23,000 --> 01:33:25,840
Speaker 4: organization from WHAT i. REMEMBER i haven't seen it a long.

1677
01:33:25,880 --> 01:33:27,840
Speaker 4: Time it was On Animal, PLANET i, think and they

1678
01:33:27,840 --> 01:33:30,360
Speaker 4: went off the, air didn't they go off the air

1679
01:33:30,439 --> 01:33:32,120
Speaker 4: like a decade. AGO i don't even. Know are they

1680
01:33:32,120 --> 01:33:33,559
Speaker 4: still even? AROUND i don't even.

1681
01:33:33,600 --> 01:33:37,200
Speaker 3: KNOW i don't. Know the premise was so beautiful and

1682
01:33:37,320 --> 01:33:40,439
Speaker 3: talk about bonding LIKE i, MEAN i just remember watching

1683
01:33:40,479 --> 01:33:45,040
Speaker 3: it a long time. Ago but, yeah super beautiful for both.

1684
01:33:45,080 --> 01:33:47,920
Speaker 4: Parties, yeah because they've done a lot of like animal

1685
01:33:47,920 --> 01:33:52,960
Speaker 4: therapy and jails and prisons with like cats and dogs and,

1686
01:33:53,000 --> 01:33:57,120
Speaker 4: whatnot so it really softens it really softens the prisoners

1687
01:33:57,120 --> 01:34:01,120
Speaker 4: and gives them a, task, Right, yeah because they're rehabilitating

1688
01:34:01,320 --> 01:34:03,280
Speaker 4: an animal and also themselves at the same.

1689
01:34:03,320 --> 01:34:09,680
Speaker 2: Time the, Empathy, yeah their heart deserves to still you

1690
01:34:09,720 --> 01:34:11,679
Speaker 2: know beyond there's so many.

1691
01:34:11,760 --> 01:34:12,639
Speaker 3: Lives it's a really good.

1692
01:34:12,640 --> 01:34:15,680
Speaker 4: PROGRAM i think it's a really really good. PROGRAM i

1693
01:34:15,720 --> 01:34:17,439
Speaker 4: think we probably need to see more of. IT i

1694
01:34:17,800 --> 01:34:20,160
Speaker 4: know it's probably you, know make costs a lot of,

1695
01:34:20,160 --> 01:34:21,160
Speaker 4: money BUT i do think it's worth.

1696
01:34:21,160 --> 01:34:24,080
Speaker 6: It agree is that it.

1697
01:34:23,600 --> 01:34:26,080
Speaker 2: Is that already the. Night, well, listen we Have Joseph

1698
01:34:26,080 --> 01:34:31,360
Speaker 2: Scott morgan, tomorrow so. Listen forensics get in, line, taha anything.

1699
01:34:31,439 --> 01:34:34,000
Speaker 2: Specific we might even hear about The Long island serial.

1700
01:34:34,080 --> 01:34:34,360
Speaker 7: Killer.

1701
01:34:34,400 --> 01:34:37,240
Speaker 9: Tomorrow you might hear about, that hear about a police

1702
01:34:37,280 --> 01:34:39,960
Speaker 9: informant that was killed with and we're going to probably

1703
01:34:39,960 --> 01:34:42,400
Speaker 9: talk about OPEN AI Ceo, Samman

1704
01:34:45,600 --> 01:34:47,200
Speaker 3: Stay, safe good, night