Speaker 1: You're listening to I Choose Me with Jenny Girl. Hi. Everyone,
Speaker 1: welcome to I Choose Me. This podcast is all about
Speaker 1: the choices we make, and today I am going to
Speaker 1: introduce you to a woman who makes choices every single
Speaker 1: day that will astonish you. When Elizabeth Smart was fourteen
Speaker 1: years old, two strangers kidnapped her from her home and
Speaker 1: held her for grueling nine months. They took her as
Speaker 1: their wife, raped her, and ripped away the life she
Speaker 1: knew and the dreams she had hoped for. I'm telling
Speaker 1: you this now because that's not the story Elizabeth is
Speaker 1: here to tell. She's here to talk about the choices
Speaker 1: she has made since her rescue, the choice to not
Speaker 1: only survive, but to thrive. In her new book Detours,
Speaker 1: Elizabeth explores how trauma can derail our paths, but with
Speaker 1: the help of what she calls rest stops along the way,
Speaker 1: we can navigate inevitable bumps in the road. She will
Speaker 1: certainly help us all find strength in our journeys. Please
Speaker 1: welcome Elizabeth Smart.
Speaker 2: Hi, Hi beautiful, Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1: I'm so happy you're here. First off, I want to
Speaker 1: say congratulations on your new book release, not to mention
Speaker 1: your new Netflix documentary that is coming out in January. Right,
Speaker 1: how did that come about?
Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, first of all, thank you, thank you. I'm
Speaker 2: all very excited. I'm excited about everything. You know. Every
Speaker 2: time I kind of think like the retelling of my
Speaker 2: story is being put to rest, usually another opportunity comes along.
Speaker 2: And actually for years I kind of just like, no, no,
Speaker 2: people have heard enough from me. People have heard enough
Speaker 2: from me. But in the interim of time, I've spent
Speaker 2: a lot of time speaking and talking to other survivors
Speaker 2: and just recognizing how how impactful stories are, and how
Speaker 2: I realized that when you share your story, you give
Speaker 2: permission to other people to share their stories. Let you
Speaker 2: talk about your own trauma, you give permission to other
Speaker 2: people to share their trauma. And so then when this
Speaker 2: opportunity came along, I was like, Wow, this is on
Speaker 2: a much bigger stage than I ever imagined that I
Speaker 2: would be on. This is great.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, and you definitely your story deserves to
Speaker 1: continue to be heard because it's an important one. You
Speaker 1: had a terrible thing happened to you early on in
Speaker 1: your life. I remember watching in real time as the
Speaker 1: news of your kidnapping spread across the country. It was
Speaker 1: gut wrenching and terrifying as for me, especially as a
Speaker 1: new young mom. And today I just I'm happy we're
Speaker 1: not going to really retell that horrific event. Instead, I
Speaker 1: want to just focus on your path forward.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 1: In fact, you said that you don't want your book
Speaker 1: or the interviews on your book tour to be trauma
Speaker 1: dumps or true crime reenactment soap operas. What did you
Speaker 1: mean by that, Well.
Speaker 2: Just that this book is not meant to dive into
Speaker 2: the gory details of what went on. I mean, I
Speaker 2: feel like my first book was the retelling of my
Speaker 2: story and as much comfort and detail that I'll probably
Speaker 2: ever go into on a public stage. And this book
Speaker 2: is different. This is not my first book, this is
Speaker 2: not my story. This is more trying to really identify
Speaker 2: the steps that I took that have allowed me to
Speaker 2: move forward.
Speaker 1: So this is very important for those nine months back
Speaker 1: in two thousand and two, you're fourteen years old, you
Speaker 1: had to learn to be strategically silent as a form
Speaker 1: of survival, I'm guessing, and now at thirty eight, you're
Speaker 1: choosing to use your voice for advocacy. How did you
Speaker 1: consciously make the transition from silence being your necessary shield
Speaker 1: to now your voice being sort of your superpower.
Speaker 2: I feel like I'm so lucky because I have had
Speaker 2: so many mentors to look up to, so many people
Speaker 2: that I admire, and my family has been certainly every
Speaker 2: member of my family has been one of those mentors
Speaker 2: and people that I look up to, and specifically my dad. Actually,
Speaker 2: I remember after I got rescued. I mean I felt
Speaker 2: like I felt like it was days later, but now
Speaker 2: I guess I'm speaking twenty years later. And he was
Speaker 2: flying out to Washington, d C. To try to work
Speaker 2: on the Amber Alert being pushed through legislature right and
Speaker 2: every time there was legislation here in Utahs felt like
Speaker 2: he was going up to our capital to law before it.
Speaker 2: And then anytime that there was a child who disappeared
Speaker 2: or was kidnapped, he was reaching out to the families.
Speaker 2: He was talking to the families, trying to provide help,
Speaker 2: trying to provide trying to provide advice, relief, whatever he could.
Speaker 2: And then he was going to search centers and helping
Speaker 2: to do searches for other people. So I had the
Speaker 2: incredible role model for me to watch and both my parents,
Speaker 2: my grandparents, my whole extended family. They always emphasized the
Speaker 2: importance of serving their fellow men. I mean, if you
Speaker 2: borrowed something, did you leave it nicer than you got
Speaker 2: it in? Or like, if you borrowed a car, did
Speaker 2: you fill it all the way up full with gas
Speaker 2: even though maybe it only came to it half empty?
Speaker 2: Or you know, you stayed at someone's house, like did
Speaker 2: you I don't know, make the bed exactly? Like that
Speaker 2: was kind of our family. I don't know just how
Speaker 2: they were, And so I never thought that, I mean,
Speaker 2: I would give back simply by telling my story. But
Speaker 2: when I eventually had to go to trial, which you know,
Speaker 2: was the better part of a decade later, after I
Speaker 2: was rescued and finally shared all of these details that
Speaker 2: I had never spoken about before, I remember just feeling
Speaker 2: like I haven't given any context to this. This just
Speaker 2: feels like facts of paper, Like I feel like I needed,
Speaker 2: like if all this is going out where I didn't
Speaker 2: want to go to begin with, Like it needs to
Speaker 2: serve a cause, it needs to like serve a purpose.
Speaker 2: And my dad, along the way, he'd like asked my
Speaker 2: opinions what I thought about legislation. He asked, you know,
Speaker 2: would this have helped you while you were kidnapped? And like,
Speaker 2: little by little, I don't think he ever tried to
Speaker 2: like pull me into it, but just his questions and
Speaker 2: his example just kind of helped lead me in through
Speaker 2: shallow waters. And then finally when the trial happened, I
Speaker 2: was like, Okay, I am ready to do something more
Speaker 2: like I wasn't going to share this, but now it's
Speaker 2: out there, so I'm yes.
Speaker 1: I mean, there's so many forms of trauma that people
Speaker 1: go through. Very often people who experience trauma feel defined
Speaker 1: by it. Your choice has clearly been to define yourself
Speaker 1: by your strength and your life after the event. How
Speaker 1: did you get there? What were the mental steps that
Speaker 1: took to separate the Elizabeth Smart that was abducted from
Speaker 1: the Elizabeth Smart you are today, the whole person, the daughter,
Speaker 1: the wife, the mom.
Speaker 2: So I feel like that's really like one of the
Speaker 2: core of what this book is. And I mean it
Speaker 2: starts by, you know, we all have plans for our life.
Speaker 2: I mean, whoever you are, wherever you are, like, we
Speaker 2: all have this image of how we see our life
Speaker 2: laid out in front of us. We have like this
Speaker 2: this road, if you will, of what our life, where
Speaker 2: our life is going to take us. And I haven't
Speaker 2: met anyone whose life has gone exactly to plan right
Speaker 2: sperience some form of heartache or trauma or or something.
Speaker 2: And I think when you first experienced that, it's okay
Speaker 2: to grieve the path that you lost, the vision that
Speaker 2: you had for yourself. I mean, for instance, my parents
Speaker 2: they divorced about seven years ago. Prior to that, I
Speaker 2: could not imagine a world where my parents weren't married.
Speaker 2: I couldn't imagine the world where my family wasn't intact.
Speaker 2: And we've like they have divorced, you know, we've all
Speaker 2: moved on with our lives. But at the same time,
Speaker 2: like there is some grief around like holidays or special
Speaker 2: events where yeah, yeah, different than what it used to be. Definitely,
Speaker 2: you know, there's so it's okay to grieve those lost paths,
Speaker 2: grieve the life that you you thought you were going
Speaker 2: to have, but it's also important to not just stay
Speaker 2: in that stage of grief. I mean, there's nothing wrong
Speaker 2: with being angry or sad, they're no bad emotions. But
Speaker 2: you need to find your way forward. You need to
Speaker 2: find a new planet and sometimes I think that's just
Speaker 2: as simple as getting up in the morning, taking a shower,
Speaker 2: maybe going for a walk. I think, you know, like
Speaker 2: there are so many different degrees of trauma that sometimes
Speaker 2: maybe all anyone can do is wake up the next one. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I know you have a strong religious belief system that
Speaker 1: you grew up with a lot of religious practices, people
Speaker 1: believe that they are given certain trials or challenges or
Speaker 1: traumas as almost sort of a calling, like even a destiny,
Speaker 1: that God or Heavenly Father or how you want to
Speaker 1: reference your source has chosen this path for you, and
Speaker 1: if you have complete faith in that sort of predestined thinking,
Speaker 1: you will overcome it. My question here is, in your
Speaker 1: years of healing, did you ever question that faith or
Speaker 1: did you ever or did you just accept that this
Speaker 1: was supposed to all happen to you as it's your calling.
Speaker 2: So I am very grateful for the upbringing that I had.
Speaker 2: I'm grateful for my family. I'm grateful for the faith
Speaker 2: that I had growing up. Now as an adult, maybe
Speaker 2: I've just become a little bit more cynical. I don't know,
Speaker 2: but I also just feel like for me, like belief
Speaker 2: is so personal and like I can't just take anyone's
Speaker 2: word for it, Like I have to know something before
Speaker 2: I believe it or not.
Speaker 1: But that's not necessarily the way you were raised, right,
Speaker 1: I mean I wasn't either.
Speaker 2: That's not how I was raised. But that's that's what's
Speaker 2: happened now. And so when you ask me, like, did
Speaker 2: I always just think that was the plan for my life?
Speaker 2: I guess I still as a child and still now
Speaker 2: I feel like God, family, father, whatever name he goes by,
Speaker 2: I want to believe that he loves us. And if
Speaker 2: he loves us, I don't think he would say you're
Speaker 2: going to be kidnapped, You're gonna like, you're going to
Speaker 2: go through divorce, you're going to go through illness, You're
Speaker 2: gonna have find misery and relationships. Like I just can't
Speaker 2: believe that a loving God would want that for us
Speaker 2: in our own I think other people make decisions, and
Speaker 2: we're all free to make our own decisions. I think
Speaker 2: God always wants the best for us, and we can
Speaker 2: let him in as much or as little as we
Speaker 2: want into our lives. And I think that you know,
Speaker 2: if you do let him in, you can I think
Speaker 2: easier find your way forward easier than if you just
Speaker 2: shut everyone and everything and God out of your life completely.
Speaker 1: Yes, it's that faith. You need faith. I've talked about
Speaker 1: that before, and I was never like a real faith believer.
Speaker 1: I didn't feel like I had that support. But once
Speaker 1: I decided that I was missing faith in my life,
Speaker 1: it just really changed everything. I felt so so much
Speaker 1: more supported in whatever journey I was on, you know,
Speaker 1: so I can definitely I love that you're pushing back
Speaker 1: on the beliefs that you were brought up with. I
Speaker 1: think that's what we all should do as we get
Speaker 1: older and kind of define what it is that we want.
Speaker 1: I think that's so admirable.
Speaker 2: Oh thank you.
Speaker 1: This is the thing, though, I'm listening to you, and
Speaker 1: I know your story, and I'm really struggling with something.
Speaker 1: I'm putting myself in your position right now now that
Speaker 1: you are a mom. How do you ever sleep soundly
Speaker 1: at night? How do you sleep in the next room
Speaker 1: to your babies and not just lose your mind with
Speaker 1: worry and fear? I just I can't even imagine ever
Speaker 1: sleeping through a night after what happened to you.
Speaker 2: Oh No, When my first daughter was born, I remember
Speaker 2: just feeling like my heart migrated up to my throat
Speaker 2: to the point that I couldn't breathe anymore, and my
Speaker 2: heart just lived in my throat and I was waiting
Speaker 2: for it to like settle back down into my chest
Speaker 2: and feel like a normal human being. Again, I don't
Speaker 2: know that that's ever actually happened. And I mean it like,
Speaker 2: there are times when I'm just like, I'm not okay
Speaker 2: with this and I feel like I do need to
Speaker 2: know where they're at. I need to know who they're with,
Speaker 2: like I need to. I just I need to know
Speaker 2: what's going on in their lives because otherwise, Yeah, I
Speaker 2: don't think I could function because I just be a
Speaker 2: hot mess all the time. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean that's just mother's instinct naturally, But given what
Speaker 1: you went through, I just, yeah, I really that was
Speaker 1: just the one thing for me as a mom. And
Speaker 1: then knowing that you're a mom now of three, I
Speaker 1: just my heart goes out to what that must be like.
Speaker 2: It's you know, it's good that I have my husband
Speaker 2: here to be the voice of reason.
Speaker 1: Sometimes, Yeah, that's that's helpful for me as well. Sometimes
Speaker 1: you need that voice of reason to get you to
Speaker 1: just calm down do you teach your kids about your past,
Speaker 1: about what happened, and how do you do that without
Speaker 1: allowing that to sort of define their outlook or their
Speaker 1: future or their fear.
Speaker 2: So one of the I wish I came up with this.
Speaker 2: I wish I was like this brilliant, but I'm not.
Speaker 2: But one of the best pieces of parent and advice
Speaker 2: I was given was when your kids start asking you questions,
Speaker 2: that's the right time to start talking about it. And
Speaker 2: remember I was given that advice before even my first
Speaker 2: was born, and I just remember thinking, that's really good advice.
Speaker 2: I'm going to do that. I'm going to make sure
Speaker 2: there's an when I talk to my kids, like we're
Speaker 2: going to use the correct body part names, like I'm
Speaker 2: not gonna attect, I'm not gonna attach shame to like
Speaker 2: penis or vagina, Like nobody cares if you say elbow
Speaker 2: or me, Like why should be a DIF friend? Because
Speaker 2: for me, like as a kid growing up, I was
Speaker 2: just like oh, but so like I had all these
Speaker 2: ideas of how I was going to parent my children,
Speaker 2: and I was like, yeah, when they ask questions, I'm
Speaker 2: going to give them like the answers, like I won't
Speaker 2: be lying to my kids or being like, oh, that's
Speaker 2: conversation for when you're older. Well, that ended up bringing
Speaker 2: me to speaking to my oldest when she was three
Speaker 2: years old about them, because she started asking questions. I
Speaker 2: was like, I am not ready for this, Like I'm
Speaker 2: not ready to go.
Speaker 1: How does she know at three years old to ask
Speaker 1: questions about it.
Speaker 2: I was getting ready one day to go to a
Speaker 2: parole hearing and she kept asking me where are you going?
Speaker 2: Where are you going? I was like, oh, I'm headed
Speaker 2: down too. Uh prison, there's there's you know, And she's like,
Speaker 2: why are you going there? She's like, you're in trouble.
Speaker 2: I was like no, I was like, I'm going down
Speaker 2: there to make sure that people who do bad things
Speaker 2: don't get out. And she's like, well, what bad things
Speaker 2: do they do? She's like why are you going? Did
Speaker 2: they do something to you? Oh?
Speaker 1: She's curious about everything.
Speaker 2: So I mean that did end up me talking about
Speaker 2: what happened. But I mean it was like it wasn't
Speaker 2: it wasn't deep levels. I mean it was like really
Speaker 2: started off as you know, a long time ago, when
Speaker 2: I was very little, there was a man and woman
Speaker 2: who came in and took me and they hurt me,
Speaker 2: and they hurt me for a long time. But now
Speaker 2: they're in prison, so I want to make sure they
Speaker 2: stay there so they don't hurt anybody else. That was
Speaker 2: kind of that first conversation with her. But then as
Speaker 2: as she's grown, I'd say that conversation has grown as well.
Speaker 2: And like, you know, when I say no to things
Speaker 2: that they want, I'm usually like, you know, do you
Speaker 2: remember what my job is. My job is to keep
Speaker 2: you safe? Do you know why, Like I'm not letting
Speaker 2: you do this because this is not safe.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's hard to set those boundaries with your kids,
Speaker 1: but I can imagine it being double hard for you
Speaker 1: because they want what everybody else is doing. And I, yeah, it's.
Speaker 2: Got to be hard completely. Yeah, So it's you know,
Speaker 2: sometimes it goes over better than others and sometimes not.
Speaker 1: I'm sure. Yeah. And as they've gotten older, and as
Speaker 1: they continue to get older, those those curiosities and those
Speaker 1: questions will keep coming up, especially if they see the
Speaker 1: documentary or they you know, they hear the stories from
Speaker 1: kids at school or on the internet or whatever it's
Speaker 1: gonna get. You know, they have to know the truth.
Speaker 1: And I think that that's you're going about it the
Speaker 1: right way to by telling them the truth, because sometimes
Speaker 1: I feel like I in sort of create more fear
Speaker 1: in my kids by telling them the harsh reality pies
Speaker 1: out there. But also at the same time, I think
Speaker 1: you need to be afraid. You need to have a
Speaker 1: certain level of fear in order to remember to keep
Speaker 1: yourself safe even when you think you know nothing's going
Speaker 1: to happen to you.
Speaker 2: I think for me it's very important that I mean
Speaker 2: all my kids, but my girls in particular, feel strong
Speaker 2: and capable. I mean, I know I was raised to
Speaker 2: always be polite. I was always raised to you know,
Speaker 2: respect my elders, all those kinds of things, and it
Speaker 2: was very hard for me to say no. So I
Speaker 2: want them to feel like they can fight back, that
Speaker 2: they can say no, that they have my permission to
Speaker 2: not be polite, and that if anyone is ever inappropriate
Speaker 2: with them anywhere, that they can that they can stand
Speaker 2: up for themselves and that all back them up. So,
Speaker 2: I mean, if anyone ever tried touching them or or
Speaker 2: sneaking into the room while they're naked or something like that,
Speaker 2: and they turned around and like they defended themselves and
Speaker 2: maybe someone else like they brought got brought to the
Speaker 2: I don't know the principle or something was like, oh,
Speaker 2: you know your daughter punched so and so on. I'd
Speaker 2: be like, yeah, that's because I told her to, and
Speaker 2: I want her to feel strong, and I want her
Speaker 2: to know that nobody has the right to touch her
Speaker 2: and that she doesn't have to be nice to everyone.
Speaker 2: I've heard this example given so many times, and I
Speaker 2: think it's such a good example. If you look at
Speaker 2: the Animal Kingdom and a lion wasn't an elevator, you
Speaker 2: would never see, like a gazelle get into the elevator
Speaker 2: with the lion, you'd never see the other animal, the
Speaker 2: prey willingly get into the elevator. But yet we as
Speaker 2: human beings, like even if your gut is screaming, don't
Speaker 2: get into that elevator, we will still do it because
Speaker 2: we don't want to appear rude, We don't want to
Speaker 2: appear judgmental, We don't know, like, we.
Speaker 1: Don't want to make it awkward.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we silence, are we just silenced like the warnings
Speaker 2: in our gut, the little voice in the back of
Speaker 2: our head, and just think, no, no, that's just me
Speaker 2: being paranoid. Well, I think it's okay to be paranoid.
Speaker 2: Sometimes you're safe should come before other people's feelings. And
Speaker 2: as as that sounds, I believe it. I do too.
Speaker 1: Honestly, in your book, you write, the right people help
Speaker 1: you breathe deeper, trust more, and keep going. The wrong ones,
Speaker 1: no matter how well meaning, can leave you feeling lonelier
Speaker 1: than if you had walked the road alone. I'm curious,
Speaker 1: how did you find the right people after all this
Speaker 1: to help you navigate these detours as you call them.
Speaker 2: So for me, it was just it was I mean,
Speaker 2: it was finding people who just liked me for me.
Speaker 2: Who didn't like me because of a lie Elizabeth Smart
Speaker 2: or because of the past, or because I got extra
Speaker 2: attention or anything like that. They just they liked me
Speaker 2: for me. I mean, like even the example of my husband,
Speaker 2: he had no idea who I was. He didn't know
Speaker 2: my story. I mean, he was just this boy from Scotland, like,
Speaker 2: never heard of Elizabeth Smart. And when he met me,
Speaker 2: he's like, oh, like she's cute and she's nice, and yeah,
Speaker 2: I wouldn't mind talking to her a little bit more.
Speaker 2: And for me, that was a huge different like such refreshing,
Speaker 2: because on the other hand, I had so many kind,
Speaker 2: well meaning people who'd be like, oh, Elizabeth, I know
Speaker 2: you must be struggling so much. What would you like
Speaker 2: to talk about? Should we talk about? Like what you
Speaker 2: experienced while you were kidnapping? What was that first night like?
Speaker 2: And even though I know they're being kind, it also
Speaker 2: just felt like they had like this morbid curiosity that
Speaker 2: they wanting to like dig in more and more and
Speaker 2: more for which again, that was just not something I
Speaker 2: wanted to talk about and I wanted to leave it
Speaker 2: in the past. So that is a I get I
Speaker 2: feel like a very basic example of you know, well
Speaker 2: meaning people but maybe not the best to be around
Speaker 2: versus people that really loved me for me and my
Speaker 2: past made no difference to them at all.
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, how did you? How did you get rid
Speaker 1: of the wrong ones in a healthy way, in a
Speaker 1: way that wasn't like off you know, off putting to
Speaker 1: them or some sometimes you can be off putting if
Speaker 1: that's what you need to do, but like if they
Speaker 1: were close friends and family, like, how did you say,
Speaker 1: like I need space from you and I don't want
Speaker 1: to discuss this.
Speaker 2: I just I just like i'd usually just be like, oh,
Speaker 2: you know, thank you so much for like caring, thank
Speaker 2: you so much. I'm okay right now. Yeah, I'll let
Speaker 2: you know if I need to talk about it later,
Speaker 2: but I'm okay right now.
Speaker 1: And then you just sort of like you like, thin
Speaker 1: the weeds a little and find you're right the path
Speaker 1: of the little patch of grass that feels right. I'm
Speaker 1: so glad that you found your husband. I mean, what
Speaker 1: a wonderful gift to have somebody that's walking beside you.
Speaker 2: Yeah. No, I'm so happy we found each other.
Speaker 1: Yeah. You call them detours, like I mentioned, you also
Speaker 1: call them rock slides, those unexpected events and experiences, whatever
Speaker 1: you call them. Those can end up causing a lot
Speaker 1: of pain. And you have experienced, you know, some pretty
Speaker 1: major detours, from the kidnapping to that phone call from
Speaker 1: your dad telling you that he and your mom are
Speaker 1: getting a divorce that I'm sure shook you. I'm sure
Speaker 1: there have been other painful events in the course of
Speaker 1: your life so far. How do you work through that
Speaker 1: residual pain, I guess is my question again.
Speaker 2: I feel like it it is like going through these
Speaker 2: steps in the book, you know, like grieving the loss,
Speaker 2: then you know, trying to navigate a new way forward
Speaker 2: pursuing connection. So I mean, for instance, in my parents' divorce,
Speaker 2: my siblings were going through the same thing, and so
Speaker 2: I feel like it brought us together in some ways
Speaker 2: that maybe it wouldn't have either otherwise. And listening, I
Speaker 2: feel like it gave me like a new understanding and
Speaker 2: compassion for other people who would experience the same things.
Speaker 2: And you know, I think back to like my childhood
Speaker 2: and I had a lot of friends whose parents were divorced,
Speaker 2: and I had no idea what that was. That was
Speaker 2: like as a kid, and you know, they'd be like, oh,
Speaker 2: I'm going to my mom's house and I'm going to
Speaker 2: my dad's house now. And now I'm like, man, I
Speaker 2: feel like I can't that sounds awful. I can't imagine.
Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, because my parents divorced when I was
Speaker 2: an adult. That's terrible. So I still feel like it
Speaker 2: gave me compassion and empathy, and you know, it's caused
Speaker 2: me to like pursue more connections in my life, meaningful connections.
Speaker 2: It forced me into well force is maybe the wrong word,
Speaker 2: but before my parents were divorced, i'd say, my relationship
Speaker 2: with my dad kind of piggybacked off of my mom
Speaker 2: because I talked to my mom so much before they
Speaker 2: were divorced that like, if my dad was around, just
Speaker 2: be like, oh hey Dad, Yeah, how are you doing? Yep,
Speaker 2: We're good, okay, yep. See yeah. But then you know,
Speaker 2: when they divorced, like I had to be very intentional
Speaker 2: about my relationship with him because it couldn't just piggyback
Speaker 2: off my mom anymore because they weren't together anymore. So
Speaker 2: I feel like that was a good good I mean,
Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, a good thing for me to really
Speaker 2: establish my own relationship. But yeah, kind of opened a
Speaker 2: different door for you as far as that connection, I think. Yeah.
Speaker 2: And then you know, like as you move forward down
Speaker 2: these new paths, finding like the joys are the reasons
Speaker 2: to be thankful along the time. I mean again, had
Speaker 2: I not been kidnapped, you know, I'd like to think
Speaker 2: that I would still care as much as I do
Speaker 2: about sexual abuse, violence, subduction, domestic violence, I'd love to
Speaker 2: think that I care as deeply as I do. But
Speaker 2: also I think I probably would have continued living a
Speaker 2: life where those conversations were not being had I can
Speaker 2: very easily imagine maybing like oh those are terrible, that's
Speaker 2: so sad, that's terrible, But that doesn't happen very often.
Speaker 2: That doesn't happen to me, So like people who know
Speaker 2: what they're doing are already dealing with it, whereas now
Speaker 2: I'm like, this is everywhere, Like you want to talk
Speaker 2: about an epidemic, like talk about domestic violence or sexual abuse,
Speaker 2: like numbers are through the roof.
Speaker 1: I think sometimes people are just like, like you said,
Speaker 1: it's not happening to me. That's terrible. But there's that also,
Speaker 1: that just ability to kind of shut it off because
Speaker 1: either it's just so ugly we don't want to look
Speaker 1: at it, we don't want to think about it, or
Speaker 1: if we do, maybe we'll bring it into our lives
Speaker 1: or something exactly.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So now I'm grateful that it has given me
Speaker 2: this empathy and understanding and confecsion and like desire to
Speaker 2: want to change is our nation? Our world?
Speaker 1: Yeah, lit up a passion inside of you that maybe
Speaker 1: never would have ignited.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly what do you do.
Speaker 1: Though, when your brain reminds you of stories that you
Speaker 1: don't want to think about anymore? Like how do you
Speaker 1: quiet the those memories or voices inside your mind.
Speaker 2: So I feel like there, I mean, I feel like
Speaker 2: it's something actually you preach and it's kind of choosing
Speaker 2: to take care of yourself or having practices that you
Speaker 2: make a part of your life so that when maybe
Speaker 2: something does become too much, you can step back and
Speaker 2: take a break. Because I think breaks are great. I
Speaker 2: think breaks are wonderful.
Speaker 1: So makes are the.
Speaker 2: Best going for a walk? Is that listening to an
Speaker 2: audiobook or a podcast, or a piece of music, or
Speaker 2: maybe it's playing music or singing music yourself, or making
Speaker 2: a cake, or just doing something that's engaging your senses
Speaker 2: in something other than just sitting, like letting those memories
Speaker 2: overtake you.
Speaker 1: And you've had that, I'm sure, those moments where it's coming,
Speaker 1: it's happening, you're starting to swirl down that memory of
Speaker 1: a toilet, you know, and those that's when you consciously
Speaker 1: are like, Okay, nope, we are going to focus on
Speaker 1: something else right now.
Speaker 2: Yes, Yes, definitely, I have had those experience.
Speaker 1: That takes such self awareness, I think, and it also
Speaker 1: takes a certain amount of strength to It's almost like
Speaker 1: training your brain to not think certain things because you
Speaker 1: know they're not going to do you any good.
Speaker 2: I yeah, I agree completely. I think our brain has
Speaker 2: so much power and influence on how we live our
Speaker 2: daily lives, and I think it's so important for us
Speaker 2: to train our brains to be kind to us because
Speaker 2: I think if you just like go down that toilet
Speaker 2: bowl of negativity, that is what your brain is going
Speaker 2: to say to you. That's just going to make it
Speaker 2: even worse and worse. But I think when you find
Speaker 2: yourself going down that negative spiral, if you have like
Speaker 2: spoken kind words to yourself repeatedly, and you have incorporated
Speaker 2: like healthy practices into your life, or have been able
Speaker 2: to say no, I'm not comfortable with this, or felt
Speaker 2: like you have some control given back to you in
Speaker 2: your life, like the ability to say no, the ability
Speaker 2: to have a car to be able to get into
Speaker 2: to drive away if a situation feels unsafe, or a
Speaker 2: phone to call someone to come pick you up. I mean, like,
Speaker 2: I think it's these are just like really important practices
Speaker 2: to engage in regularly, and starting by speaking kindly to
Speaker 2: yourself in your inner dialogue.
Speaker 1: Yes, that inner dialogue is so can be so crafty,
Speaker 1: so wicked sometimes to just undermine us and knock us out.
Speaker 2: I agree completely. I have run a number of marathons.
Speaker 1: And how many marathons have you run?
Speaker 2: Well? In my book, I said four, and I was
Speaker 2: about to run five. I go to the fifth one,
Speaker 2: and the morning of the fifth one, it actually was
Speaker 2: canceled due to weather and accidents.
Speaker 1: Oh no, so you drained and then it was canceled.
Speaker 2: I trained, and I've still only run four.
Speaker 1: But before hi, I've never run to the corner. So
Speaker 1: good job for you.
Speaker 2: Oh thank you. But in each marathon, there's always been
Speaker 2: like a wall that I have hit. I feel like
Speaker 2: it's usually between mile like eighteen and twenty one where
Speaker 2: I'm just like, I can't do this. Why am I
Speaker 2: torturing myself? I paid for this torture. I paid to
Speaker 2: like for this misery. My whole body hurts. What am
Speaker 2: I doing? I shouldn't have done this? And I kind
Speaker 2: of start that negative self talk, and then I'll have
Speaker 2: my my like, I'll catch myself in this negative self talk,
Speaker 2: and like my brain will say, Elizabeth, pull yourself together.
Speaker 2: You survived nine months with these two monster. You are
Speaker 2: not going to let this little marathon stop you. Like
Speaker 2: you are not going to stop at twenty miles or
Speaker 2: twenty one miles, you are going to finish it. If
Speaker 2: you have to curl on your hands and knees, like
Speaker 2: you are stronger than this marathon. Usually at that point
Speaker 2: in time be like, Okay, I can do this, I
Speaker 2: can finish and I did.
Speaker 1: Wow. I mean that is like kind of like parenting
Speaker 1: yourself from within, you know, like you said, basically, once
Speaker 1: you conquer something that you didn't think you could conquer,
Speaker 1: and in your case a very extraordinary situation, but even
Speaker 1: in smaller situations, once you realize, look what I've done,
Speaker 1: I can do anything. Now, there's nothing I can't survive,
Speaker 1: it really gives you that sort of like peace to
Speaker 1: rely on yourself in a whole new way.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, And I just think, you know, people come to
Speaker 2: me all the time and they're like, oh, Elizabeth, you're
Speaker 2: so strong. You're so strong. I could never go through
Speaker 2: what you went through. That is just something so far
Speaker 2: beyond me. I couldn't do that. I couldn't do that. Well,
Speaker 2: if you told me what I was going to go
Speaker 2: through before I went through it, I would say the
Speaker 2: same thing. I would say, Well, I couldn't do that.
Speaker 2: Are you kidding me, like, I'm not strong enough to
Speaker 2: go through that. I think I'd rather die than go
Speaker 2: through that. But when you don't have a choice, yeah,
Speaker 2: you don't have a choice. You just survive. You just
Speaker 2: do what you have to do. And I wish everyone
Speaker 2: could recognize that in themselves. We will all go through
Speaker 2: something in life where you think I I can't do
Speaker 2: this or I can't go on, But then you also
Speaker 2: realize you don't have a choice. You can't just wave
Speaker 2: a magic wand and make the situation disappear, right, You
Speaker 2: just have to go through it. And Wow, Like, aren't
Speaker 2: we all so strong? Aren't we all so incredible?
Speaker 1: I mean, it's within us all. I think we just
Speaker 1: don't know it.
Speaker 2: Sometimes aren't people just incredible and amazing?
Speaker 1: I want to ask you about sort of like the
Speaker 1: victim versus survivor topic. There's a quote from your book
Speaker 1: where you say, here is where I see the difference.
Speaker 1: While survivors are working tirelessly to overcome their rock slides
Speaker 1: and navigate their detours, victims have fallen prey to the
Speaker 1: idea that they are their trauma.
Speaker 2: I mean, the.
Speaker 1: Truth is, you were a victim, but you've chosen to
Speaker 1: be a survivor, and that is incredible, But do you
Speaker 1: think do you ever feel like labeling victim or survivor
Speaker 1: can become problematic? Because I mean, the truth is it's
Speaker 1: not a linear thing, this healing that has to happen,
Speaker 1: and you know, it's a daily choice.
Speaker 2: I mean, I feel like the only person that can
Speaker 2: label you accurately as yourself. So I'm not going to
Speaker 2: sit here and be like, she is a survivor. She
Speaker 2: is not. He's a survivor. She is a survivor, he's
Speaker 2: a victim, right Like, I will never sit here and
Speaker 2: do that. I think it's in each one of us
Speaker 2: to decide for ourselves what are we And you're absolutely right,
Speaker 2: healing is not linear. And I mean you can be
Speaker 2: going along like five ten years down the road being
Speaker 2: like life is just great, like no problems whatsoever, and
Speaker 2: then all of a sudden, it's just like something something
Speaker 2: blows up to the surface and you're like, but I
Speaker 2: already worked through this, Why is this coming up now?
Speaker 2: I mean, that's that's totally normal. That it doesn't mean
Speaker 2: you didn't heal, or that you're not better today than
Speaker 2: you were ten years ago or five years ago or
Speaker 2: however long like that that just happens as part of life.
Speaker 2: I mean, and you work through it again, and you
Speaker 2: keep moving and you keep you don't give up. You
Speaker 2: don't just think, well I failed, I didn't maybe I
Speaker 2: didn't do enough therapy sessions, or maybe I didn't you know,
Speaker 2: like do enough self reflection, or like you don't give up.
Speaker 2: You just keep trying. And you know, I feel like
Speaker 2: none of us should give up on ourselves, Like none
Speaker 2: of us should surrender to what our own worst trauma is,
Speaker 2: like believe in yourself, believe you deserve more than your
Speaker 2: worst experiences. Mm hmm.
Speaker 1: And is there something in to be said about not
Speaker 1: not allowing yourself to label yourself a victim or to
Speaker 1: sort of take a trauma and lead with it for
Speaker 1: the rest of your life.
Speaker 2: I think labels are very dangerous because I think they
Speaker 2: do limit you and you don't see beyond that. You
Speaker 2: just see, oh, well, this is me, like kidnaps. I'm
Speaker 2: just nap girl, Like that's all'll ever be. And if
Speaker 2: I truly thought that, then like I would still be
Speaker 2: in that same mind space that I was twenty twenty
Speaker 2: two years ago. But I'm I'm not in that mind
Speaker 2: space anymore. And so I just like you can let
Speaker 2: your certainly people can let their traumas define them, but
Speaker 2: they don't have to, and it might take time to
Speaker 2: work through them. But that doesn't mean that that's what
Speaker 2: defines you, right.
Speaker 1: I think it's so important for people to realize that,
Speaker 1: but it's really hard when you're in it.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, remembered shortly after I got home. I remember thinking, Man,
Speaker 2: if I died tomorrow, what would people say at my funeral?
Speaker 2: Like they just talk about, Wow, this is such a tragedy.
Speaker 2: She lived such a tragic life, survived abduction and kidnapping,
Speaker 2: only to die now. And I remember just thinking that's
Speaker 2: all anyone would talk about. And I remember thinking at
Speaker 2: that point in time, I was like, when I eventually die,
Speaker 2: I don't want anyone to talk about my kidnapping. I
Speaker 2: want people to laugh or make fun of me, or
Speaker 2: be like this was so funny when or like this
Speaker 2: was a special memory, or I was like I don't,
Speaker 2: like I want it to be about me, not my abduction.
Speaker 1: Right, I mean I can I can definitely see what
Speaker 1: you're saying, because inevitably someone in the press or someone's
Speaker 1: going to you know, you know when you do leave
Speaker 1: this planet, that's going to be talked about, and really
Speaker 1: you don't have any control. But what you do have
Speaker 1: control is surrounding yourself with the people that you know
Speaker 1: no more than that and love you deeper than that.
Speaker 1: So that's where those connections and that support system really
Speaker 1: comes comes in handy.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, which is why relationships are so important, and find
Speaker 2: the ones that build you up and love you and
Speaker 2: support you through thick and thin.
Speaker 1: Have you had to let go of friendships that didn't
Speaker 1: serve you, Yes.
Speaker 2: I mean I'd see a lot of the ones that
Speaker 2: weren't solid faded on their own. I mean I didn't
Speaker 2: necessarily have to go through and be like, hey, you're out,
Speaker 2: You're out. You didn't. I feel like a lot of
Speaker 2: them just kind of died on their own. There have
Speaker 2: been some that have been more more difficult, because you know,
Speaker 2: like sometimes you can really love a person and feel
Speaker 2: like you do anything in the world for them, and
Speaker 2: then you just realize that feeling is not reciprocated and
Speaker 2: you're pouring love and energy into a relationship that is
Speaker 2: not pouring love and energy back into you, and that
Speaker 2: could be really hard.
Speaker 1: To Absolutely, I want to know more about this in
Speaker 1: your book you you call them rest stops. So these
Speaker 1: are just your techniques, your tips that have worked for
Speaker 1: you in order to heal and move forward in your life.
Speaker 1: I can just name a few, and you can expand
Speaker 1: on them, allowing yourself to grieve the lost path and
Speaker 1: the destinations that disappeared with it. Why is that important.
Speaker 2: Because kind of going back a little bit to what
Speaker 2: I was saying earlier, I mean, you do have this
Speaker 2: vision of how your life is going to go, and
Speaker 2: when that vision is disrupted, it can be heartbreaking. It
Speaker 2: can be devastating. You know, like you thought you were
Speaker 2: going to marry this man, You thought he was the
Speaker 2: love of your life, and then he dies in a
Speaker 2: car accident. And I mean, not only are you grieving
Speaker 2: the loss of someone you love, but also the life
Speaker 2: that you envisioned for yourself, like having a found together,
Speaker 2: going on vacations together, growing old together, and you're grieving
Speaker 2: that loss as well. So it's like I would, honestly,
Speaker 2: I encourage you to not be shy about being sad
Speaker 2: or angry or hurt when your life changes its path.
Speaker 2: It's okay. It's okay to feel those emotions and it's
Speaker 2: okay to sit in that pain for for as long
Speaker 2: as you need.
Speaker 1: You say, avoid the trap of comparison. I agree one
Speaker 1: hundred percent. It's a trap. Have you avoid it?
Speaker 2: Like just recognizing we are all different? I know we
Speaker 2: say it all the time. I hear it. I feel
Speaker 2: like you hear people be like, we're all like snowflakes,
Speaker 2: you know, like every snowflake is different, or you're like
Speaker 2: your fingerprint, everyone's different, or dental records, whatever, like everyone
Speaker 2: is different. But actually truly believing that because we're all different,
Speaker 2: I mean, someone else could be kidnapp in just the
Speaker 2: same manner as I was, go through the exact same
Speaker 2: things with the exact same monsters, but we would still
Speaker 2: have different stories because we're individual, we're different people Like
Speaker 2: whoever was the other person who went through that? They're
Speaker 2: not me and I'm not them, so we'd be different.
Speaker 2: And I feel like, too far, too often have people
Speaker 2: say like, oh, I went through something similar, but nothing
Speaker 2: in comparison, And I want to be like, well, there
Speaker 2: are no comparisons. There's no way to accurately compare what
Speaker 2: one person went through versus another person. Because we're all different.
Speaker 2: We all have our own unique set of skills that
Speaker 2: you just can't compare to anyone else's.
Speaker 1: H Absolutely, I think sometimes we forget I know I do.
Speaker 1: I forget that even like in my relationship with my husband,
Speaker 1: I forget that he's a different set of eyeballs, he
Speaker 1: has a different complete, different take on any given situation,
Speaker 1: or even what something looks like for him is completely
Speaker 1: different or maybe completely different than what it looks like
Speaker 1: for me. And I think in the world, we kind
Speaker 1: of walk around thinking everybody is sees the way you
Speaker 1: do or thinks the way you do, but so not
Speaker 1: the truth.
Speaker 2: It really it really isn't I mean, yeah, we are
Speaker 2: all just so different. And even like another another silly example,
Speaker 2: I have this friend who she like if she had
Speaker 2: pursued sports when she was younger, like, I have no
Speaker 2: idea how far she would have gone, but I invited
Speaker 2: her to come train with me for a marathon. I
Speaker 2: convinced her to run a marathon with me, And I'd say,
Speaker 2: I'm actually a pretty disciplined person, Like if it's something
Speaker 2: I care about and want to do well, and like
Speaker 2: I can show up, I can do the work as
Speaker 2: I can do the runs, and like I like followed
Speaker 2: the plan. I mean, like she was good, but I
Speaker 2: know that I followed it more than she. And then
Speaker 2: race day came and I was like, yes, I'm gonna
Speaker 2: do so well. She blew me out of the water.
Speaker 2: Really oh, she destroyed me. And I was just like,
Speaker 2: but I traded so hard. But that was like me,
Speaker 2: just like, what is she doing that I'm not doing? Like,
Speaker 2: but that's just because we're different people, Like, we're just different.
Speaker 1: It just seems like such a waste of time to
Speaker 1: compare yourself, right.
Speaker 2: Exactly.
Speaker 1: Yes, you say, resist the urge to isolate, pursue connection fearlessly.
Speaker 1: Sometimes that can be easier said than done.
Speaker 2: I agree, I'm probably a naturally more reserved person.
Speaker 1: Would you say you're an introvert. Yes, yeah, I'd.
Speaker 2: Say I'm a functioning introvert. Like right, small talk I
Speaker 2: can and then if you have to at the end
Speaker 2: of the night, I'm like, oh, I'm so tired, nobody
Speaker 2: else talk to me. I'm done, right, this is it.
Speaker 1: I need to go recharge. Yeah, that happens to me too.
Speaker 2: But I mean finding I think I think the difference
Speaker 2: is finding the people that you don't feel exhausted after
Speaker 2: being with finding the people that recharge you, that you
Speaker 2: enjoy being around. So maybe it's not having you know,
Speaker 2: a hundred friends, maybe it's just having one or two.
Speaker 2: But by being around them, you don't feel like you're
Speaker 2: being drained. You feel like you are receiving instead of
Speaker 2: just giving.
Speaker 1: Yes, you also say, when it comes to dreams, set goals,
Speaker 1: not deadlines.
Speaker 2: Yes, I fall prey to both. Like just honestly, I
Speaker 2: do fall prey to both. I'll be like, by this day,
Speaker 2: I am going to have all of this done, or
Speaker 2: like even in this book by you know, in six months,
Speaker 2: the first draft is going to be done. Right does
Speaker 2: that ever happen? No, No it doesn't. But just setting
Speaker 2: the goal to like write the book. You know, this
Speaker 2: process has gone on for I want to say, over
Speaker 2: a year and a half. Maybe we're closing it on
Speaker 2: two years now. I need to I need to go
Speaker 2: back and rethink it all. You know, like it here,
Speaker 2: I am.
Speaker 1: Like here, it is, this is where I am right here,
Speaker 1: I am.
Speaker 2: I mean, I think you know, deadlines can be helpful,
Speaker 2: they can move us, but I also think they can
Speaker 2: be very very detrimental because then you're like, I didn't
Speaker 2: make it. I didn't do it. This was all for naught.
Speaker 2: I'm a failure, right, And then you just go back
Speaker 2: down into that negative spiral.
Speaker 1: So I know you're a huge family person, so committed
Speaker 1: to your family, and so they've just been such a
Speaker 1: great support to you. Now that your parents have divorced
Speaker 1: and you made a huge I choose me moment when
Speaker 1: he came out, how has that affected your family dynamics?
Speaker 2: I feel so heartbroken for both my parents. You know,
Speaker 2: my mom was in a marriage for thirty years. She
Speaker 2: thought they were going to be together their whole lives,
Speaker 2: like they had built a life together, and then for
Speaker 2: my dad to come out, like I can't imagine how
Speaker 2: heartbreaking and difficult that would be for my mom to
Speaker 2: feel like her life and everything she'd work for had
Speaker 2: all of a sudden just this partnership had just crumbled
Speaker 2: and disappeared. And on the other hand, I mean, feeling
Speaker 2: like you're not living like my dad, and feeling like
Speaker 2: you're not living who you really are, and like keeping
Speaker 2: a massive secret that you feel like identifies you to
Speaker 2: a degree, Like how impossible a situation is that? Because
Speaker 2: I mean I had neither me nor any of my
Speaker 2: brothers or my sister had any clue ever ever thought
Speaker 2: my dad was gay. I mean, none of us. That
Speaker 2: was never even a thought that went through our heads.
Speaker 2: So it was a pretty big shock to all of
Speaker 2: us when that happened. And you know, there's been there's
Speaker 2: been good things, like really forcing me to build a
Speaker 2: relationship with my dad separate than the one to my mom.
Speaker 2: But again, like there's sad things, you know, like birthdays
Speaker 2: and holidays where you know it's like, oh, oh we
Speaker 2: had mom at the last one, kids dad's turn or
Speaker 2: you know my mom. You know, I just it's it's
Speaker 2: more difficult.
Speaker 1: It's definitely more difficult. Yeah, I know, having been through
Speaker 1: a divorce and having kids and now having to share them,
Speaker 1: and it's so much more of a burden on them,
Speaker 1: I think emotionally than it is even on me or
Speaker 1: their dad, because you know, we've moved on in our life,
Speaker 1: but your childhood, the core of who you are. When
Speaker 1: that gets shaken and turned upside down, you have to
Speaker 1: sort of forge a new way. And you know, in
Speaker 1: my case, I'm just so grateful that my daughters have
Speaker 1: one another. So when they're struggling or being challenged with
Speaker 1: that kind of stuff, and I'm sure you rely on
Speaker 1: your brothers and sisters a lot for that too.
Speaker 2: I mean, we definitely. I feel like I was always
Speaker 2: pretty close with a lot of my siblings. I mean
Speaker 2: I feel like we were all pretty close always. But
Speaker 2: it's definitely brought us in many ways closer. Just being like, hey,
Speaker 2: did you feel this way? Or like I thought this,
Speaker 2: or like am I crazy? Or yeah, I mean how
Speaker 2: has helped us become closer as well.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well that's one of the good things that's come
Speaker 1: from it, for sure. Way to see the positive, Yeah
Speaker 1: like that.
Speaker 2: I mean I'm not always like super positive. Sometimes I'm like,
Speaker 2: I hate this. I wish they'd never gotten divorced. I
Speaker 2: mean I don't want them to be unhappy. I would
Speaker 2: never want either of them to be unhappy. I of
Speaker 2: course I always want them to be happy, But selfishly,
Speaker 2: there's a part of me that's like, this would just
Speaker 2: be easier if you had never gotten divorced. Yeah, it
Speaker 2: would have been easier for me. It wouldn't have been
Speaker 2: easier for them.
Speaker 1: So yeah, I think that sometimes we forget that how
Speaker 1: difficult it is on the kids divorce, But.
Speaker 2: I mean it is, It's happened, and now you know
Speaker 2: what to move forward as best we can figure out.
Speaker 1: Yeah, gratitude, forgiveness, hope, all those things are so important.
Speaker 1: Before I let you go, Elizabeth Smart, what was your
Speaker 1: last I Choose me moment?
Speaker 2: Probably this morning when I should have probably done the dishes,
Speaker 2: but I decided to work out instead. And the dishes
Speaker 2: are still upstairs in the sink.
Speaker 1: Now they can wait.
Speaker 2: That's what I told myself.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Good, that's just a simple, like everyday way stuff.
Speaker 1: That is, it's not the end of the world that
Speaker 1: the dishes aren't done. What's more important is your health
Speaker 1: and your sanity.
Speaker 2: Yes, my sanity. I would focus on that.
Speaker 1: Yes, okay. Well, Elizabeth's book Detours Hope and Growth after
Speaker 1: Life's Hardest Turns is available now. You guys, thank you
Speaker 1: so much for joining me, Elizabeth, your story, your perseverance
Speaker 1: is going to help so many people.
Speaker 2: Thank you, Jenny. It was such a pleasure coming on
Speaker 2: and chatting with you. Thank you.
Speaker 1: I loved it. It's really nice to meet you, and
Speaker 1: you are an inspiration.
Speaker 2: It's very nice to meet you.
Speaker 1: To thank you