WEBVTT - I Choose … Detours over Dead Ends with Elizabeth Smart 0:00:01.639 --> 0:00:09.240 You're listening to I Choose Me with Jenny Girl. Hi. Everyone, 0:00:09.360 --> 0:00:12.280 welcome to I Choose Me. This podcast is all about 0:00:12.280 --> 0:00:15.200 the choices we make, and today I am going to 0:00:15.240 --> 0:00:18.440 introduce you to a woman who makes choices every single 0:00:18.520 --> 0:00:23.520 day that will astonish you. When Elizabeth Smart was fourteen 0:00:23.600 --> 0:00:27.360 years old, two strangers kidnapped her from her home and 0:00:27.480 --> 0:00:31.520 held her for grueling nine months. They took her as 0:00:31.720 --> 0:00:35.760 their wife, raped her, and ripped away the life she 0:00:35.840 --> 0:00:39.200 knew and the dreams she had hoped for. I'm telling 0:00:39.240 --> 0:00:43.440 you this now because that's not the story Elizabeth is 0:00:43.440 --> 0:00:46.320 here to tell. She's here to talk about the choices 0:00:46.520 --> 0:00:50.159 she has made since her rescue, the choice to not 0:00:50.240 --> 0:00:54.640 only survive, but to thrive. In her new book Detours, 0:00:54.680 --> 0:00:59.520 Elizabeth explores how trauma can derail our paths, but with 0:00:59.600 --> 0:01:03.280 the help of what she calls rest stops along the way, 0:01:03.840 --> 0:01:07.440 we can navigate inevitable bumps in the road. She will 0:01:07.480 --> 0:01:11.360 certainly help us all find strength in our journeys. Please 0:01:11.360 --> 0:01:12.880 welcome Elizabeth Smart. 0:01:13.160 --> 0:01:16.399 Hi, Hi beautiful, Thank you for having me. 0:01:16.760 --> 0:01:18.880 I'm so happy you're here. First off, I want to 0:01:18.920 --> 0:01:23.520 say congratulations on your new book release, not to mention 0:01:23.840 --> 0:01:28.280 your new Netflix documentary that is coming out in January. Right, 0:01:28.319 --> 0:01:29.240 how did that come about? 0:01:29.920 --> 0:01:33.000 Yeah, Well, first of all, thank you, thank you. I'm 0:01:33.000 --> 0:01:36.959 all very excited. I'm excited about everything. You know. Every 0:01:36.959 --> 0:01:40.039 time I kind of think like the retelling of my 0:01:40.200 --> 0:01:45.000 story is being put to rest, usually another opportunity comes along. 0:01:45.280 --> 0:01:48.360 And actually for years I kind of just like, no, no, 0:01:48.640 --> 0:01:50.920 people have heard enough from me. People have heard enough 0:01:50.920 --> 0:01:54.080 from me. But in the interim of time, I've spent 0:01:54.120 --> 0:01:58.120 a lot of time speaking and talking to other survivors 0:01:58.280 --> 0:02:03.360 and just recognizing how how impactful stories are, and how 0:02:03.480 --> 0:02:07.440 I realized that when you share your story, you give 0:02:07.480 --> 0:02:11.080 permission to other people to share their stories. Let you 0:02:11.160 --> 0:02:13.919 talk about your own trauma, you give permission to other 0:02:13.960 --> 0:02:16.480 people to share their trauma. And so then when this 0:02:16.560 --> 0:02:18.760 opportunity came along, I was like, Wow, this is on 0:02:18.919 --> 0:02:22.880 a much bigger stage than I ever imagined that I 0:02:22.919 --> 0:02:24.480 would be on. This is great. 0:02:24.560 --> 0:02:29.360 Yeah, I mean, and you definitely your story deserves to 0:02:29.440 --> 0:02:32.120 continue to be heard because it's an important one. You 0:02:32.200 --> 0:02:34.400 had a terrible thing happened to you early on in 0:02:34.440 --> 0:02:37.800 your life. I remember watching in real time as the 0:02:37.840 --> 0:02:41.480 news of your kidnapping spread across the country. It was 0:02:41.639 --> 0:02:45.560 gut wrenching and terrifying as for me, especially as a 0:02:46.200 --> 0:02:50.840 new young mom. And today I just I'm happy we're 0:02:50.880 --> 0:02:55.040 not going to really retell that horrific event. Instead, I 0:02:55.080 --> 0:02:57.560 want to just focus on your path forward. 0:02:58.800 --> 0:02:59.000 Right. 0:02:59.520 --> 0:03:03.080 In fact, you said that you don't want your book 0:03:03.600 --> 0:03:06.480 or the interviews on your book tour to be trauma 0:03:06.520 --> 0:03:09.359 dumps or true crime reenactment soap operas. What did you 0:03:09.400 --> 0:03:11.079 mean by that, Well. 0:03:10.919 --> 0:03:15.799 Just that this book is not meant to dive into 0:03:15.880 --> 0:03:18.440 the gory details of what went on. I mean, I 0:03:18.440 --> 0:03:22.680 feel like my first book was the retelling of my 0:03:22.840 --> 0:03:26.399 story and as much comfort and detail that I'll probably 0:03:26.480 --> 0:03:30.280 ever go into on a public stage. And this book 0:03:30.320 --> 0:03:32.400 is different. This is not my first book, this is 0:03:32.440 --> 0:03:36.360 not my story. This is more trying to really identify 0:03:36.800 --> 0:03:40.200 the steps that I took that have allowed me to 0:03:40.240 --> 0:03:41.040 move forward. 0:03:42.200 --> 0:03:46.839 So this is very important for those nine months back 0:03:46.920 --> 0:03:49.280 in two thousand and two, you're fourteen years old, you 0:03:49.480 --> 0:03:54.800 had to learn to be strategically silent as a form 0:03:54.840 --> 0:03:58.320 of survival, I'm guessing, and now at thirty eight, you're 0:03:58.440 --> 0:04:02.880 choosing to use your voice for advocacy. How did you 0:04:03.280 --> 0:04:09.560 consciously make the transition from silence being your necessary shield 0:04:09.600 --> 0:04:12.080 to now your voice being sort of your superpower. 0:04:12.920 --> 0:04:15.800 I feel like I'm so lucky because I have had 0:04:15.920 --> 0:04:19.160 so many mentors to look up to, so many people 0:04:19.200 --> 0:04:25.920 that I admire, and my family has been certainly every 0:04:25.920 --> 0:04:28.520 member of my family has been one of those mentors 0:04:28.520 --> 0:04:32.200 and people that I look up to, and specifically my dad. Actually, 0:04:32.240 --> 0:04:34.719 I remember after I got rescued. I mean I felt 0:04:34.760 --> 0:04:37.280 like I felt like it was days later, but now 0:04:37.279 --> 0:04:40.280 I guess I'm speaking twenty years later. And he was 0:04:40.320 --> 0:04:43.039 flying out to Washington, d C. To try to work 0:04:43.080 --> 0:04:46.160 on the Amber Alert being pushed through legislature right and 0:04:46.760 --> 0:04:51.839 every time there was legislation here in Utahs felt like 0:04:51.880 --> 0:04:55.200 he was going up to our capital to law before it. 0:04:55.240 --> 0:04:59.360 And then anytime that there was a child who disappeared 0:05:00.120 --> 0:05:03.240 or was kidnapped, he was reaching out to the families. 0:05:03.279 --> 0:05:05.840 He was talking to the families, trying to provide help, 0:05:05.920 --> 0:05:11.960 trying to provide trying to provide advice, relief, whatever he could. 0:05:12.000 --> 0:05:14.359 And then he was going to search centers and helping 0:05:14.400 --> 0:05:16.960 to do searches for other people. So I had the 0:05:17.160 --> 0:05:21.640 incredible role model for me to watch and both my parents, 0:05:21.680 --> 0:05:25.479 my grandparents, my whole extended family. They always emphasized the 0:05:25.520 --> 0:05:28.919 importance of serving their fellow men. I mean, if you 0:05:29.400 --> 0:05:31.960 borrowed something, did you leave it nicer than you got 0:05:32.000 --> 0:05:34.160 it in? Or like, if you borrowed a car, did 0:05:34.160 --> 0:05:36.760 you fill it all the way up full with gas 0:05:36.800 --> 0:05:39.080 even though maybe it only came to it half empty? 0:05:39.200 --> 0:05:41.240 Or you know, you stayed at someone's house, like did 0:05:41.279 --> 0:05:46.240 you I don't know, make the bed exactly? Like that 0:05:46.400 --> 0:05:50.479 was kind of our family. I don't know just how 0:05:50.800 --> 0:05:54.920 they were, And so I never thought that, I mean, 0:05:55.240 --> 0:05:58.800 I would give back simply by telling my story. But 0:05:59.360 --> 0:06:04.960 when I eventually had to go to trial, which you know, 0:06:05.200 --> 0:06:07.839 was the better part of a decade later, after I 0:06:07.880 --> 0:06:12.200 was rescued and finally shared all of these details that 0:06:12.279 --> 0:06:16.120 I had never spoken about before, I remember just feeling 0:06:16.200 --> 0:06:19.720 like I haven't given any context to this. This just 0:06:19.760 --> 0:06:23.800 feels like facts of paper, Like I feel like I needed, 0:06:24.480 --> 0:06:26.240 like if all this is going out where I didn't 0:06:26.279 --> 0:06:28.680 want to go to begin with, Like it needs to 0:06:28.720 --> 0:06:31.520 serve a cause, it needs to like serve a purpose. 0:06:31.600 --> 0:06:34.359 And my dad, along the way, he'd like asked my 0:06:34.440 --> 0:06:37.719 opinions what I thought about legislation. He asked, you know, 0:06:37.760 --> 0:06:40.560 would this have helped you while you were kidnapped? And like, 0:06:40.640 --> 0:06:43.919 little by little, I don't think he ever tried to 0:06:44.040 --> 0:06:47.520 like pull me into it, but just his questions and 0:06:47.640 --> 0:06:51.280 his example just kind of helped lead me in through 0:06:51.320 --> 0:06:54.240 shallow waters. And then finally when the trial happened, I 0:06:54.279 --> 0:06:57.039 was like, Okay, I am ready to do something more 0:06:57.080 --> 0:06:58.920 like I wasn't going to share this, but now it's 0:06:58.960 --> 0:07:01.320 out there, so I'm yes. 0:07:01.760 --> 0:07:03.839 I mean, there's so many forms of trauma that people 0:07:03.880 --> 0:07:08.000 go through. Very often people who experience trauma feel defined 0:07:08.000 --> 0:07:12.880 by it. Your choice has clearly been to define yourself 0:07:12.880 --> 0:07:16.880 by your strength and your life after the event. How 0:07:16.920 --> 0:07:20.920 did you get there? What were the mental steps that 0:07:21.080 --> 0:07:25.640 took to separate the Elizabeth Smart that was abducted from 0:07:25.680 --> 0:07:29.200 the Elizabeth Smart you are today, the whole person, the daughter, 0:07:29.320 --> 0:07:30.200 the wife, the mom. 0:07:31.080 --> 0:07:33.480 So I feel like that's really like one of the 0:07:33.520 --> 0:07:36.640 core of what this book is. And I mean it 0:07:36.720 --> 0:07:40.360 starts by, you know, we all have plans for our life. 0:07:40.400 --> 0:07:43.280 I mean, whoever you are, wherever you are, like, we 0:07:43.320 --> 0:07:46.920 all have this image of how we see our life 0:07:47.000 --> 0:07:48.760 laid out in front of us. We have like this 0:07:49.280 --> 0:07:52.280 this road, if you will, of what our life, where 0:07:52.280 --> 0:07:54.960 our life is going to take us. And I haven't 0:07:55.000 --> 0:07:59.480 met anyone whose life has gone exactly to plan right 0:08:00.000 --> 0:08:03.920 sperience some form of heartache or trauma or or something. 0:08:04.200 --> 0:08:09.640 And I think when you first experienced that, it's okay 0:08:09.840 --> 0:08:13.680 to grieve the path that you lost, the vision that 0:08:13.760 --> 0:08:17.200 you had for yourself. I mean, for instance, my parents 0:08:17.280 --> 0:08:19.880 they divorced about seven years ago. Prior to that, I 0:08:19.920 --> 0:08:23.560 could not imagine a world where my parents weren't married. 0:08:23.600 --> 0:08:27.800 I couldn't imagine the world where my family wasn't intact. 0:08:28.400 --> 0:08:33.319 And we've like they have divorced, you know, we've all 0:08:34.040 --> 0:08:36.160 moved on with our lives. But at the same time, 0:08:36.400 --> 0:08:43.760 like there is some grief around like holidays or special 0:08:43.800 --> 0:08:49.319 events where yeah, yeah, different than what it used to be. Definitely, 0:08:49.720 --> 0:08:53.240 you know, there's so it's okay to grieve those lost paths, 0:08:53.280 --> 0:08:56.440 grieve the life that you you thought you were going 0:08:56.520 --> 0:09:00.560 to have, but it's also important to not just stay 0:09:00.760 --> 0:09:02.800 in that stage of grief. I mean, there's nothing wrong 0:09:02.840 --> 0:09:07.280 with being angry or sad, they're no bad emotions. But 0:09:07.840 --> 0:09:10.600 you need to find your way forward. You need to 0:09:10.640 --> 0:09:14.120 find a new planet and sometimes I think that's just 0:09:14.160 --> 0:09:17.840 as simple as getting up in the morning, taking a shower, 0:09:19.600 --> 0:09:22.640 maybe going for a walk. I think, you know, like 0:09:22.679 --> 0:09:26.120 there are so many different degrees of trauma that sometimes 0:09:26.160 --> 0:09:30.480 maybe all anyone can do is wake up the next one. Yeah. 0:09:30.520 --> 0:09:33.520 I know you have a strong religious belief system that 0:09:33.559 --> 0:09:37.000 you grew up with a lot of religious practices, people 0:09:37.040 --> 0:09:41.320 believe that they are given certain trials or challenges or 0:09:41.480 --> 0:09:45.440 traumas as almost sort of a calling, like even a destiny, 0:09:45.440 --> 0:09:48.000 that God or Heavenly Father or how you want to 0:09:48.120 --> 0:09:52.199 reference your source has chosen this path for you, and 0:09:52.440 --> 0:09:57.640 if you have complete faith in that sort of predestined thinking, 0:09:57.679 --> 0:10:00.640 you will overcome it. My question here is, in your 0:10:00.800 --> 0:10:05.120 years of healing, did you ever question that faith or 0:10:05.160 --> 0:10:07.840 did you ever or did you just accept that this 0:10:08.200 --> 0:10:11.800 was supposed to all happen to you as it's your calling. 0:10:13.800 --> 0:10:19.600 So I am very grateful for the upbringing that I had. 0:10:19.600 --> 0:10:21.680 I'm grateful for my family. I'm grateful for the faith 0:10:21.720 --> 0:10:24.360 that I had growing up. Now as an adult, maybe 0:10:24.400 --> 0:10:26.760 I've just become a little bit more cynical. I don't know, 0:10:26.880 --> 0:10:30.480 but I also just feel like for me, like belief 0:10:30.600 --> 0:10:34.160 is so personal and like I can't just take anyone's 0:10:34.200 --> 0:10:37.079 word for it, Like I have to know something before 0:10:37.120 --> 0:10:39.480 I believe it or not. 0:10:39.760 --> 0:10:41.600 But that's not necessarily the way you were raised, right, 0:10:41.640 --> 0:10:42.720 I mean I wasn't either. 0:10:43.520 --> 0:10:46.040 That's not how I was raised. But that's that's what's 0:10:46.080 --> 0:10:48.760 happened now. And so when you ask me, like, did 0:10:48.840 --> 0:10:51.040 I always just think that was the plan for my life? 0:10:51.720 --> 0:10:54.640 I guess I still as a child and still now 0:10:54.760 --> 0:10:59.760 I feel like God, family, father, whatever name he goes by, 0:11:00.760 --> 0:11:03.280 I want to believe that he loves us. And if 0:11:03.280 --> 0:11:06.000 he loves us, I don't think he would say you're 0:11:06.040 --> 0:11:08.800 going to be kidnapped, You're gonna like, you're going to 0:11:08.880 --> 0:11:12.160 go through divorce, you're going to go through illness, You're 0:11:12.160 --> 0:11:16.840 gonna have find misery and relationships. Like I just can't 0:11:17.000 --> 0:11:21.280 believe that a loving God would want that for us 0:11:21.320 --> 0:11:24.400 in our own I think other people make decisions, and 0:11:24.480 --> 0:11:27.959 we're all free to make our own decisions. I think 0:11:28.920 --> 0:11:32.920 God always wants the best for us, and we can 0:11:33.040 --> 0:11:35.600 let him in as much or as little as we 0:11:35.640 --> 0:11:40.320 want into our lives. And I think that you know, 0:11:40.000 --> 0:11:44.200 if you do let him in, you can I think 0:11:44.360 --> 0:11:48.560 easier find your way forward easier than if you just 0:11:49.160 --> 0:11:52.160 shut everyone and everything and God out of your life completely. 0:11:53.040 --> 0:11:56.480 Yes, it's that faith. You need faith. I've talked about 0:11:56.480 --> 0:12:01.800 that before, and I was never like a real faith believer. 0:12:01.960 --> 0:12:05.000 I didn't feel like I had that support. But once 0:12:05.040 --> 0:12:07.760 I decided that I was missing faith in my life, 0:12:08.640 --> 0:12:10.959 it just really changed everything. I felt so so much 0:12:11.000 --> 0:12:14.280 more supported in whatever journey I was on, you know, 0:12:14.880 --> 0:12:18.080 so I can definitely I love that you're pushing back 0:12:18.120 --> 0:12:20.240 on the beliefs that you were brought up with. I 0:12:20.240 --> 0:12:21.920 think that's what we all should do as we get 0:12:22.000 --> 0:12:24.880 older and kind of define what it is that we want. 0:12:26.040 --> 0:12:27.559 I think that's so admirable. 0:12:28.400 --> 0:12:29.000 Oh thank you. 0:12:35.840 --> 0:12:38.240 This is the thing, though, I'm listening to you, and 0:12:38.360 --> 0:12:40.520 I know your story, and I'm really struggling with something. 0:12:40.840 --> 0:12:44.200 I'm putting myself in your position right now now that 0:12:44.240 --> 0:12:48.560 you are a mom. How do you ever sleep soundly 0:12:48.679 --> 0:12:50.600 at night? How do you sleep in the next room 0:12:50.600 --> 0:12:53.600 to your babies and not just lose your mind with 0:12:53.760 --> 0:12:57.400 worry and fear? I just I can't even imagine ever 0:12:57.440 --> 0:12:59.440 sleeping through a night after what happened to you. 0:13:00.120 --> 0:13:04.400 Oh No, When my first daughter was born, I remember 0:13:04.880 --> 0:13:07.800 just feeling like my heart migrated up to my throat 0:13:07.840 --> 0:13:09.880 to the point that I couldn't breathe anymore, and my 0:13:09.920 --> 0:13:12.880 heart just lived in my throat and I was waiting 0:13:12.880 --> 0:13:15.240 for it to like settle back down into my chest 0:13:15.320 --> 0:13:18.120 and feel like a normal human being. Again, I don't 0:13:18.280 --> 0:13:23.600 know that that's ever actually happened. And I mean it like, 0:13:23.640 --> 0:13:26.480 there are times when I'm just like, I'm not okay 0:13:26.520 --> 0:13:29.760 with this and I feel like I do need to 0:13:29.840 --> 0:13:33.200 know where they're at. I need to know who they're with, 0:13:33.559 --> 0:13:38.839 like I need to. I just I need to know 0:13:38.880 --> 0:13:42.000 what's going on in their lives because otherwise, Yeah, I 0:13:42.040 --> 0:13:44.320 don't think I could function because I just be a 0:13:44.360 --> 0:13:46.240 hot mess all the time. Yeah. 0:13:46.280 --> 0:13:50.400 I mean that's just mother's instinct naturally, But given what 0:13:50.559 --> 0:13:54.280 you went through, I just, yeah, I really that was 0:13:54.320 --> 0:13:57.080 just the one thing for me as a mom. And 0:13:57.120 --> 0:14:00.920 then knowing that you're a mom now of three, I 0:14:01.040 --> 0:14:04.439 just my heart goes out to what that must be like. 0:14:06.200 --> 0:14:10.400 It's you know, it's good that I have my husband 0:14:10.440 --> 0:14:13.120 here to be the voice of reason. 0:14:13.240 --> 0:14:18.960 Sometimes, Yeah, that's that's helpful for me as well. Sometimes 0:14:19.040 --> 0:14:22.240 you need that voice of reason to get you to 0:14:22.520 --> 0:14:25.880 just calm down do you teach your kids about your past, 0:14:25.920 --> 0:14:28.040 about what happened, and how do you do that without 0:14:29.640 --> 0:14:32.960 allowing that to sort of define their outlook or their 0:14:33.000 --> 0:14:34.000 future or their fear. 0:14:35.600 --> 0:14:37.720 So one of the I wish I came up with this. 0:14:37.840 --> 0:14:40.280 I wish I was like this brilliant, but I'm not. 0:14:40.880 --> 0:14:43.680 But one of the best pieces of parent and advice 0:14:43.800 --> 0:14:47.760 I was given was when your kids start asking you questions, 0:14:47.840 --> 0:14:50.720 that's the right time to start talking about it. And 0:14:50.840 --> 0:14:54.360 remember I was given that advice before even my first 0:14:54.520 --> 0:14:57.520 was born, and I just remember thinking, that's really good advice. 0:14:57.560 --> 0:14:59.080 I'm going to do that. I'm going to make sure 0:14:59.080 --> 0:15:01.280 there's an when I talk to my kids, like we're 0:15:01.280 --> 0:15:03.600 going to use the correct body part names, like I'm 0:15:03.640 --> 0:15:07.560 not gonna attect, I'm not gonna attach shame to like 0:15:07.680 --> 0:15:10.680 penis or vagina, Like nobody cares if you say elbow 0:15:10.800 --> 0:15:13.400 or me, Like why should be a DIF friend? Because 0:15:13.480 --> 0:15:16.040 for me, like as a kid growing up, I was 0:15:16.120 --> 0:15:23.560 just like oh, but so like I had all these 0:15:23.600 --> 0:15:26.120 ideas of how I was going to parent my children, 0:15:26.200 --> 0:15:28.280 and I was like, yeah, when they ask questions, I'm 0:15:28.320 --> 0:15:30.040 going to give them like the answers, like I won't 0:15:30.080 --> 0:15:31.920 be lying to my kids or being like, oh, that's 0:15:32.280 --> 0:15:36.960 conversation for when you're older. Well, that ended up bringing 0:15:37.000 --> 0:15:39.920 me to speaking to my oldest when she was three 0:15:40.040 --> 0:15:45.480 years old about them, because she started asking questions. I 0:15:45.520 --> 0:15:47.840 was like, I am not ready for this, Like I'm 0:15:47.880 --> 0:15:48.400 not ready to go. 0:15:48.720 --> 0:15:50.400 How does she know at three years old to ask 0:15:50.520 --> 0:15:51.200 questions about it. 0:15:51.560 --> 0:15:53.520 I was getting ready one day to go to a 0:15:53.560 --> 0:15:58.120 parole hearing and she kept asking me where are you going? 0:15:58.200 --> 0:16:00.960 Where are you going? I was like, oh, I'm headed 0:16:01.080 --> 0:16:04.840 down too. Uh prison, there's there's you know, And she's like, 0:16:04.880 --> 0:16:06.560 why are you going there? She's like, you're in trouble. 0:16:06.640 --> 0:16:09.480 I was like no, I was like, I'm going down 0:16:09.480 --> 0:16:11.640 there to make sure that people who do bad things 0:16:11.760 --> 0:16:15.240 don't get out. And she's like, well, what bad things 0:16:15.240 --> 0:16:17.360 do they do? She's like why are you going? Did 0:16:17.400 --> 0:16:18.800 they do something to you? Oh? 0:16:18.880 --> 0:16:20.480 She's curious about everything. 0:16:22.080 --> 0:16:25.040 So I mean that did end up me talking about 0:16:25.440 --> 0:16:28.720 what happened. But I mean it was like it wasn't 0:16:29.160 --> 0:16:31.920 it wasn't deep levels. I mean it was like really 0:16:31.960 --> 0:16:34.280 started off as you know, a long time ago, when 0:16:34.320 --> 0:16:36.920 I was very little, there was a man and woman 0:16:37.080 --> 0:16:39.480 who came in and took me and they hurt me, 0:16:39.560 --> 0:16:41.200 and they hurt me for a long time. But now 0:16:41.200 --> 0:16:42.840 they're in prison, so I want to make sure they 0:16:42.880 --> 0:16:45.720 stay there so they don't hurt anybody else. That was 0:16:45.840 --> 0:16:50.040 kind of that first conversation with her. But then as 0:16:50.160 --> 0:16:53.680 as she's grown, I'd say that conversation has grown as well. 0:16:53.800 --> 0:16:56.480 And like, you know, when I say no to things 0:16:56.520 --> 0:17:00.080 that they want, I'm usually like, you know, do you 0:17:00.120 --> 0:17:02.760 remember what my job is. My job is to keep 0:17:02.760 --> 0:17:05.520 you safe? Do you know why, Like I'm not letting 0:17:05.560 --> 0:17:07.240 you do this because this is not safe. 0:17:08.760 --> 0:17:11.080 Yeah, it's hard to set those boundaries with your kids, 0:17:11.119 --> 0:17:13.280 but I can imagine it being double hard for you 0:17:13.920 --> 0:17:19.600 because they want what everybody else is doing. And I, yeah, it's. 0:17:19.440 --> 0:17:23.280 Got to be hard completely. Yeah, So it's you know, 0:17:23.560 --> 0:17:27.119 sometimes it goes over better than others and sometimes not. 0:17:28.160 --> 0:17:30.920 I'm sure. Yeah. And as they've gotten older, and as 0:17:30.920 --> 0:17:34.040 they continue to get older, those those curiosities and those 0:17:34.119 --> 0:17:37.119 questions will keep coming up, especially if they see the 0:17:37.200 --> 0:17:40.560 documentary or they you know, they hear the stories from 0:17:40.680 --> 0:17:43.640 kids at school or on the internet or whatever it's 0:17:43.680 --> 0:17:46.119 gonna get. You know, they have to know the truth. 0:17:46.200 --> 0:17:49.440 And I think that that's you're going about it the 0:17:49.480 --> 0:17:52.360 right way to by telling them the truth, because sometimes 0:17:52.440 --> 0:17:56.480 I feel like I in sort of create more fear 0:17:56.480 --> 0:18:00.359 in my kids by telling them the harsh reality pies 0:18:01.080 --> 0:18:04.680 out there. But also at the same time, I think 0:18:04.880 --> 0:18:07.280 you need to be afraid. You need to have a 0:18:07.320 --> 0:18:10.280 certain level of fear in order to remember to keep 0:18:10.280 --> 0:18:13.320 yourself safe even when you think you know nothing's going 0:18:13.320 --> 0:18:13.920 to happen to you. 0:18:15.280 --> 0:18:18.120 I think for me it's very important that I mean 0:18:18.840 --> 0:18:22.440 all my kids, but my girls in particular, feel strong 0:18:22.600 --> 0:18:25.159 and capable. I mean, I know I was raised to 0:18:25.760 --> 0:18:28.679 always be polite. I was always raised to you know, 0:18:28.760 --> 0:18:33.320 respect my elders, all those kinds of things, and it 0:18:33.400 --> 0:18:37.840 was very hard for me to say no. So I 0:18:37.840 --> 0:18:40.360 want them to feel like they can fight back, that 0:18:40.400 --> 0:18:44.440 they can say no, that they have my permission to 0:18:44.480 --> 0:18:48.720 not be polite, and that if anyone is ever inappropriate 0:18:48.800 --> 0:18:55.080 with them anywhere, that they can that they can stand 0:18:55.160 --> 0:18:57.560 up for themselves and that all back them up. So, 0:18:57.680 --> 0:19:00.199 I mean, if anyone ever tried touching them or or 0:19:00.560 --> 0:19:03.199 sneaking into the room while they're naked or something like that, 0:19:03.240 --> 0:19:07.200 and they turned around and like they defended themselves and 0:19:07.680 --> 0:19:10.480 maybe someone else like they brought got brought to the 0:19:10.800 --> 0:19:12.600 I don't know the principle or something was like, oh, 0:19:12.640 --> 0:19:14.560 you know your daughter punched so and so on. I'd 0:19:14.560 --> 0:19:17.560 be like, yeah, that's because I told her to, and 0:19:17.680 --> 0:19:20.280 I want her to feel strong, and I want her 0:19:20.359 --> 0:19:22.440 to know that nobody has the right to touch her 0:19:22.520 --> 0:19:25.679 and that she doesn't have to be nice to everyone. 0:19:25.720 --> 0:19:28.600 I've heard this example given so many times, and I 0:19:28.600 --> 0:19:32.119 think it's such a good example. If you look at 0:19:32.119 --> 0:19:36.280 the Animal Kingdom and a lion wasn't an elevator, you 0:19:36.320 --> 0:19:39.919 would never see, like a gazelle get into the elevator 0:19:39.960 --> 0:19:43.520 with the lion, you'd never see the other animal, the 0:19:44.359 --> 0:19:48.720 prey willingly get into the elevator. But yet we as 0:19:48.800 --> 0:19:52.560 human beings, like even if your gut is screaming, don't 0:19:52.600 --> 0:19:55.920 get into that elevator, we will still do it because 0:19:55.960 --> 0:19:58.000 we don't want to appear rude, We don't want to 0:19:58.000 --> 0:20:02.080 appear judgmental, We don't know, like, we. 0:20:02.000 --> 0:20:03.000 Don't want to make it awkward. 0:20:03.440 --> 0:20:07.920 Yeah, we silence, are we just silenced like the warnings 0:20:07.920 --> 0:20:10.320 in our gut, the little voice in the back of 0:20:10.359 --> 0:20:12.399 our head, and just think, no, no, that's just me 0:20:12.480 --> 0:20:15.240 being paranoid. Well, I think it's okay to be paranoid. 0:20:15.320 --> 0:20:19.560 Sometimes you're safe should come before other people's feelings. And 0:20:19.600 --> 0:20:23.160 as as that sounds, I believe it. I do too. 0:20:23.400 --> 0:20:27.800 Honestly, in your book, you write, the right people help 0:20:27.880 --> 0:20:32.359 you breathe deeper, trust more, and keep going. The wrong ones, 0:20:32.400 --> 0:20:35.320 no matter how well meaning, can leave you feeling lonelier 0:20:35.359 --> 0:20:38.600 than if you had walked the road alone. I'm curious, 0:20:38.640 --> 0:20:42.199 how did you find the right people after all this 0:20:42.280 --> 0:20:45.680 to help you navigate these detours as you call them. 0:20:46.800 --> 0:20:52.520 So for me, it was just it was I mean, 0:20:52.560 --> 0:20:56.000 it was finding people who just liked me for me. 0:20:56.840 --> 0:21:00.880 Who didn't like me because of a lie Elizabeth Smart 0:21:01.200 --> 0:21:05.520 or because of the past, or because I got extra 0:21:05.600 --> 0:21:08.720 attention or anything like that. They just they liked me 0:21:08.840 --> 0:21:12.120 for me. I mean, like even the example of my husband, 0:21:12.160 --> 0:21:15.320 he had no idea who I was. He didn't know 0:21:15.440 --> 0:21:19.159 my story. I mean, he was just this boy from Scotland, like, 0:21:19.840 --> 0:21:23.720 never heard of Elizabeth Smart. And when he met me, 0:21:23.760 --> 0:21:27.560 he's like, oh, like she's cute and she's nice, and yeah, 0:21:27.560 --> 0:21:29.480 I wouldn't mind talking to her a little bit more. 0:21:30.160 --> 0:21:35.480 And for me, that was a huge different like such refreshing, 0:21:35.560 --> 0:21:38.760 because on the other hand, I had so many kind, 0:21:38.920 --> 0:21:42.080 well meaning people who'd be like, oh, Elizabeth, I know 0:21:42.160 --> 0:21:44.639 you must be struggling so much. What would you like 0:21:44.680 --> 0:21:47.240 to talk about? Should we talk about? Like what you 0:21:47.359 --> 0:21:51.040 experienced while you were kidnapping? What was that first night like? 0:21:51.160 --> 0:21:53.920 And even though I know they're being kind, it also 0:21:54.040 --> 0:21:58.399 just felt like they had like this morbid curiosity that 0:21:58.480 --> 0:22:01.399 they wanting to like dig in more and more and 0:22:01.440 --> 0:22:04.960 more for which again, that was just not something I 0:22:05.000 --> 0:22:09.119 wanted to talk about and I wanted to leave it 0:22:09.160 --> 0:22:11.639 in the past. So that is a I get I 0:22:11.640 --> 0:22:15.320 feel like a very basic example of you know, well 0:22:15.359 --> 0:22:18.880 meaning people but maybe not the best to be around 0:22:19.480 --> 0:22:23.800 versus people that really loved me for me and my 0:22:23.920 --> 0:22:26.360 past made no difference to them at all. 0:22:27.359 --> 0:22:31.000 Yes, yes, how did you? How did you get rid 0:22:31.040 --> 0:22:33.040 of the wrong ones in a healthy way, in a 0:22:33.080 --> 0:22:36.159 way that wasn't like off you know, off putting to 0:22:36.200 --> 0:22:38.920 them or some sometimes you can be off putting if 0:22:39.040 --> 0:22:41.439 that's what you need to do, but like if they 0:22:41.440 --> 0:22:43.960 were close friends and family, like, how did you say, 0:22:44.040 --> 0:22:46.560 like I need space from you and I don't want 0:22:46.600 --> 0:22:47.199 to discuss this. 0:22:48.720 --> 0:22:53.119 I just I just like i'd usually just be like, oh, 0:22:53.160 --> 0:22:55.720 you know, thank you so much for like caring, thank 0:22:55.760 --> 0:23:00.320 you so much. I'm okay right now. Yeah, I'll let 0:23:00.320 --> 0:23:02.640 you know if I need to talk about it later, 0:23:03.600 --> 0:23:04.600