1
00:00:01,639 --> 00:00:09,240
Speaker 1: You're listening to I Choose Me with Jenny Girl. Hi. Everyone,

2
00:00:09,360 --> 00:00:12,280
Speaker 1: welcome to I Choose Me. This podcast is all about

3
00:00:12,280 --> 00:00:15,200
Speaker 1: the choices we make, and today I am going to

4
00:00:15,240 --> 00:00:18,440
Speaker 1: introduce you to a woman who makes choices every single

5
00:00:18,520 --> 00:00:23,520
Speaker 1: day that will astonish you. When Elizabeth Smart was fourteen

6
00:00:23,600 --> 00:00:27,360
Speaker 1: years old, two strangers kidnapped her from her home and

7
00:00:27,480 --> 00:00:31,520
Speaker 1: held her for grueling nine months. They took her as

8
00:00:31,720 --> 00:00:35,760
Speaker 1: their wife, raped her, and ripped away the life she

9
00:00:35,840 --> 00:00:39,200
Speaker 1: knew and the dreams she had hoped for. I'm telling

10
00:00:39,240 --> 00:00:43,440
Speaker 1: you this now because that's not the story Elizabeth is

11
00:00:43,440 --> 00:00:46,320
Speaker 1: here to tell. She's here to talk about the choices

12
00:00:46,520 --> 00:00:50,159
Speaker 1: she has made since her rescue, the choice to not

13
00:00:50,240 --> 00:00:54,640
Speaker 1: only survive, but to thrive. In her new book Detours,

14
00:00:54,680 --> 00:00:59,520
Speaker 1: Elizabeth explores how trauma can derail our paths, but with

15
00:00:59,600 --> 00:01:03,280
Speaker 1: the help of what she calls rest stops along the way,

16
00:01:03,840 --> 00:01:07,440
Speaker 1: we can navigate inevitable bumps in the road. She will

17
00:01:07,480 --> 00:01:11,360
Speaker 1: certainly help us all find strength in our journeys. Please

18
00:01:11,360 --> 00:01:12,880
Speaker 1: welcome Elizabeth Smart.

19
00:01:13,160 --> 00:01:16,399
Speaker 2: Hi, Hi beautiful, Thank you for having me.

20
00:01:16,760 --> 00:01:18,880
Speaker 1: I'm so happy you're here. First off, I want to

21
00:01:18,920 --> 00:01:23,520
Speaker 1: say congratulations on your new book release, not to mention

22
00:01:23,840 --> 00:01:28,280
Speaker 1: your new Netflix documentary that is coming out in January. Right,

23
00:01:28,319 --> 00:01:29,240
Speaker 1: how did that come about?

24
00:01:29,920 --> 00:01:33,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, first of all, thank you, thank you. I'm

25
00:01:33,000 --> 00:01:36,959
Speaker 2: all very excited. I'm excited about everything. You know. Every

26
00:01:36,959 --> 00:01:40,039
Speaker 2: time I kind of think like the retelling of my

27
00:01:40,200 --> 00:01:45,000
Speaker 2: story is being put to rest, usually another opportunity comes along.

28
00:01:45,280 --> 00:01:48,360
Speaker 2: And actually for years I kind of just like, no, no,

29
00:01:48,640 --> 00:01:50,920
Speaker 2: people have heard enough from me. People have heard enough

30
00:01:50,920 --> 00:01:54,080
Speaker 2: from me. But in the interim of time, I've spent

31
00:01:54,120 --> 00:01:58,120
Speaker 2: a lot of time speaking and talking to other survivors

32
00:01:58,280 --> 00:02:03,360
Speaker 2: and just recognizing how how impactful stories are, and how

33
00:02:03,480 --> 00:02:07,440
Speaker 2: I realized that when you share your story, you give

34
00:02:07,480 --> 00:02:11,080
Speaker 2: permission to other people to share their stories. Let you

35
00:02:11,160 --> 00:02:13,919
Speaker 2: talk about your own trauma, you give permission to other

36
00:02:13,960 --> 00:02:16,480
Speaker 2: people to share their trauma. And so then when this

37
00:02:16,560 --> 00:02:18,760
Speaker 2: opportunity came along, I was like, Wow, this is on

38
00:02:18,919 --> 00:02:22,880
Speaker 2: a much bigger stage than I ever imagined that I

39
00:02:22,919 --> 00:02:24,480
Speaker 2: would be on. This is great.

40
00:02:24,560 --> 00:02:29,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, and you definitely your story deserves to

41
00:02:29,440 --> 00:02:32,120
Speaker 1: continue to be heard because it's an important one. You

42
00:02:32,200 --> 00:02:34,400
Speaker 1: had a terrible thing happened to you early on in

43
00:02:34,440 --> 00:02:37,800
Speaker 1: your life. I remember watching in real time as the

44
00:02:37,840 --> 00:02:41,480
Speaker 1: news of your kidnapping spread across the country. It was

45
00:02:41,639 --> 00:02:45,560
Speaker 1: gut wrenching and terrifying as for me, especially as a

46
00:02:46,200 --> 00:02:50,840
Speaker 1: new young mom. And today I just I'm happy we're

47
00:02:50,880 --> 00:02:55,040
Speaker 1: not going to really retell that horrific event. Instead, I

48
00:02:55,080 --> 00:02:57,560
Speaker 1: want to just focus on your path forward.

49
00:02:58,800 --> 00:02:59,000
Speaker 2: Right.

50
00:02:59,520 --> 00:03:03,080
Speaker 1: In fact, you said that you don't want your book

51
00:03:03,600 --> 00:03:06,480
Speaker 1: or the interviews on your book tour to be trauma

52
00:03:06,520 --> 00:03:09,359
Speaker 1: dumps or true crime reenactment soap operas. What did you

53
00:03:09,400 --> 00:03:11,079
Speaker 1: mean by that, Well.

54
00:03:10,919 --> 00:03:15,799
Speaker 2: Just that this book is not meant to dive into

55
00:03:15,880 --> 00:03:18,440
Speaker 2: the gory details of what went on. I mean, I

56
00:03:18,440 --> 00:03:22,680
Speaker 2: feel like my first book was the retelling of my

57
00:03:22,840 --> 00:03:26,399
Speaker 2: story and as much comfort and detail that I'll probably

58
00:03:26,480 --> 00:03:30,280
Speaker 2: ever go into on a public stage. And this book

59
00:03:30,320 --> 00:03:32,400
Speaker 2: is different. This is not my first book, this is

60
00:03:32,440 --> 00:03:36,360
Speaker 2: not my story. This is more trying to really identify

61
00:03:36,800 --> 00:03:40,200
Speaker 2: the steps that I took that have allowed me to

62
00:03:40,240 --> 00:03:41,040
Speaker 2: move forward.

63
00:03:42,200 --> 00:03:46,839
Speaker 1: So this is very important for those nine months back

64
00:03:46,920 --> 00:03:49,280
Speaker 1: in two thousand and two, you're fourteen years old, you

65
00:03:49,480 --> 00:03:54,800
Speaker 1: had to learn to be strategically silent as a form

66
00:03:54,840 --> 00:03:58,320
Speaker 1: of survival, I'm guessing, and now at thirty eight, you're

67
00:03:58,440 --> 00:04:02,880
Speaker 1: choosing to use your voice for advocacy. How did you

68
00:04:03,280 --> 00:04:09,560
Speaker 1: consciously make the transition from silence being your necessary shield

69
00:04:09,600 --> 00:04:12,080
Speaker 1: to now your voice being sort of your superpower.

70
00:04:12,920 --> 00:04:15,800
Speaker 2: I feel like I'm so lucky because I have had

71
00:04:15,920 --> 00:04:19,160
Speaker 2: so many mentors to look up to, so many people

72
00:04:19,200 --> 00:04:25,920
Speaker 2: that I admire, and my family has been certainly every

73
00:04:25,920 --> 00:04:28,520
Speaker 2: member of my family has been one of those mentors

74
00:04:28,520 --> 00:04:32,200
Speaker 2: and people that I look up to, and specifically my dad. Actually,

75
00:04:32,240 --> 00:04:34,719
Speaker 2: I remember after I got rescued. I mean I felt

76
00:04:34,760 --> 00:04:37,280
Speaker 2: like I felt like it was days later, but now

77
00:04:37,279 --> 00:04:40,280
Speaker 2: I guess I'm speaking twenty years later. And he was

78
00:04:40,320 --> 00:04:43,039
Speaker 2: flying out to Washington, d C. To try to work

79
00:04:43,080 --> 00:04:46,160
Speaker 2: on the Amber Alert being pushed through legislature right and

80
00:04:46,760 --> 00:04:51,839
Speaker 2: every time there was legislation here in Utahs felt like

81
00:04:51,880 --> 00:04:55,200
Speaker 2: he was going up to our capital to law before it.

82
00:04:55,240 --> 00:04:59,360
Speaker 2: And then anytime that there was a child who disappeared

83
00:05:00,120 --> 00:05:03,240
Speaker 2: or was kidnapped, he was reaching out to the families.

84
00:05:03,279 --> 00:05:05,840
Speaker 2: He was talking to the families, trying to provide help,

85
00:05:05,920 --> 00:05:11,960
Speaker 2: trying to provide trying to provide advice, relief, whatever he could.

86
00:05:12,000 --> 00:05:14,359
Speaker 2: And then he was going to search centers and helping

87
00:05:14,400 --> 00:05:16,960
Speaker 2: to do searches for other people. So I had the

88
00:05:17,160 --> 00:05:21,640
Speaker 2: incredible role model for me to watch and both my parents,

89
00:05:21,680 --> 00:05:25,479
Speaker 2: my grandparents, my whole extended family. They always emphasized the

90
00:05:25,520 --> 00:05:28,919
Speaker 2: importance of serving their fellow men. I mean, if you

91
00:05:29,400 --> 00:05:31,960
Speaker 2: borrowed something, did you leave it nicer than you got

92
00:05:32,000 --> 00:05:34,160
Speaker 2: it in? Or like, if you borrowed a car, did

93
00:05:34,160 --> 00:05:36,760
Speaker 2: you fill it all the way up full with gas

94
00:05:36,800 --> 00:05:39,080
Speaker 2: even though maybe it only came to it half empty?

95
00:05:39,200 --> 00:05:41,240
Speaker 2: Or you know, you stayed at someone's house, like did

96
00:05:41,279 --> 00:05:46,240
Speaker 2: you I don't know, make the bed exactly? Like that

97
00:05:46,400 --> 00:05:50,479
Speaker 2: was kind of our family. I don't know just how

98
00:05:50,800 --> 00:05:54,920
Speaker 2: they were, And so I never thought that, I mean,

99
00:05:55,240 --> 00:05:58,800
Speaker 2: I would give back simply by telling my story. But

100
00:05:59,360 --> 00:06:04,960
Speaker 2: when I eventually had to go to trial, which you know,

101
00:06:05,200 --> 00:06:07,839
Speaker 2: was the better part of a decade later, after I

102
00:06:07,880 --> 00:06:12,200
Speaker 2: was rescued and finally shared all of these details that

103
00:06:12,279 --> 00:06:16,120
Speaker 2: I had never spoken about before, I remember just feeling

104
00:06:16,200 --> 00:06:19,720
Speaker 2: like I haven't given any context to this. This just

105
00:06:19,760 --> 00:06:23,800
Speaker 2: feels like facts of paper, Like I feel like I needed,

106
00:06:24,480 --> 00:06:26,240
Speaker 2: like if all this is going out where I didn't

107
00:06:26,279 --> 00:06:28,680
Speaker 2: want to go to begin with, Like it needs to

108
00:06:28,720 --> 00:06:31,520
Speaker 2: serve a cause, it needs to like serve a purpose.

109
00:06:31,600 --> 00:06:34,359
Speaker 2: And my dad, along the way, he'd like asked my

110
00:06:34,440 --> 00:06:37,719
Speaker 2: opinions what I thought about legislation. He asked, you know,

111
00:06:37,760 --> 00:06:40,560
Speaker 2: would this have helped you while you were kidnapped? And like,

112
00:06:40,640 --> 00:06:43,919
Speaker 2: little by little, I don't think he ever tried to

113
00:06:44,040 --> 00:06:47,520
Speaker 2: like pull me into it, but just his questions and

114
00:06:47,640 --> 00:06:51,280
Speaker 2: his example just kind of helped lead me in through

115
00:06:51,320 --> 00:06:54,240
Speaker 2: shallow waters. And then finally when the trial happened, I

116
00:06:54,279 --> 00:06:57,039
Speaker 2: was like, Okay, I am ready to do something more

117
00:06:57,080 --> 00:06:58,920
Speaker 2: like I wasn't going to share this, but now it's

118
00:06:58,960 --> 00:07:01,320
Speaker 2: out there, so I'm yes.

119
00:07:01,760 --> 00:07:03,839
Speaker 1: I mean, there's so many forms of trauma that people

120
00:07:03,880 --> 00:07:08,000
Speaker 1: go through. Very often people who experience trauma feel defined

121
00:07:08,000 --> 00:07:12,880
Speaker 1: by it. Your choice has clearly been to define yourself

122
00:07:12,880 --> 00:07:16,880
Speaker 1: by your strength and your life after the event. How

123
00:07:16,920 --> 00:07:20,920
Speaker 1: did you get there? What were the mental steps that

124
00:07:21,080 --> 00:07:25,640
Speaker 1: took to separate the Elizabeth Smart that was abducted from

125
00:07:25,680 --> 00:07:29,200
Speaker 1: the Elizabeth Smart you are today, the whole person, the daughter,

126
00:07:29,320 --> 00:07:30,200
Speaker 1: the wife, the mom.

127
00:07:31,080 --> 00:07:33,480
Speaker 2: So I feel like that's really like one of the

128
00:07:33,520 --> 00:07:36,640
Speaker 2: core of what this book is. And I mean it

129
00:07:36,720 --> 00:07:40,360
Speaker 2: starts by, you know, we all have plans for our life.

130
00:07:40,400 --> 00:07:43,280
Speaker 2: I mean, whoever you are, wherever you are, like, we

131
00:07:43,320 --> 00:07:46,920
Speaker 2: all have this image of how we see our life

132
00:07:47,000 --> 00:07:48,760
Speaker 2: laid out in front of us. We have like this

133
00:07:49,280 --> 00:07:52,280
Speaker 2: this road, if you will, of what our life, where

134
00:07:52,280 --> 00:07:54,960
Speaker 2: our life is going to take us. And I haven't

135
00:07:55,000 --> 00:07:59,480
Speaker 2: met anyone whose life has gone exactly to plan right

136
00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:03,920
Speaker 2: sperience some form of heartache or trauma or or something.

137
00:08:04,200 --> 00:08:09,640
Speaker 2: And I think when you first experienced that, it's okay

138
00:08:09,840 --> 00:08:13,680
Speaker 2: to grieve the path that you lost, the vision that

139
00:08:13,760 --> 00:08:17,200
Speaker 2: you had for yourself. I mean, for instance, my parents

140
00:08:17,280 --> 00:08:19,880
Speaker 2: they divorced about seven years ago. Prior to that, I

141
00:08:19,920 --> 00:08:23,560
Speaker 2: could not imagine a world where my parents weren't married.

142
00:08:23,600 --> 00:08:27,800
Speaker 2: I couldn't imagine the world where my family wasn't intact.

143
00:08:28,400 --> 00:08:33,319
Speaker 2: And we've like they have divorced, you know, we've all

144
00:08:34,040 --> 00:08:36,160
Speaker 2: moved on with our lives. But at the same time,

145
00:08:36,400 --> 00:08:43,760
Speaker 2: like there is some grief around like holidays or special

146
00:08:43,800 --> 00:08:49,319
Speaker 2: events where yeah, yeah, different than what it used to be. Definitely,

147
00:08:49,720 --> 00:08:53,240
Speaker 2: you know, there's so it's okay to grieve those lost paths,

148
00:08:53,280 --> 00:08:56,440
Speaker 2: grieve the life that you you thought you were going

149
00:08:56,520 --> 00:09:00,560
Speaker 2: to have, but it's also important to not just stay

150
00:09:00,760 --> 00:09:02,800
Speaker 2: in that stage of grief. I mean, there's nothing wrong

151
00:09:02,840 --> 00:09:07,280
Speaker 2: with being angry or sad, they're no bad emotions. But

152
00:09:07,840 --> 00:09:10,600
Speaker 2: you need to find your way forward. You need to

153
00:09:10,640 --> 00:09:14,120
Speaker 2: find a new planet and sometimes I think that's just

154
00:09:14,160 --> 00:09:17,840
Speaker 2: as simple as getting up in the morning, taking a shower,

155
00:09:19,600 --> 00:09:22,640
Speaker 2: maybe going for a walk. I think, you know, like

156
00:09:22,679 --> 00:09:26,120
Speaker 2: there are so many different degrees of trauma that sometimes

157
00:09:26,160 --> 00:09:30,480
Speaker 2: maybe all anyone can do is wake up the next one. Yeah.

158
00:09:30,520 --> 00:09:33,520
Speaker 1: I know you have a strong religious belief system that

159
00:09:33,559 --> 00:09:37,000
Speaker 1: you grew up with a lot of religious practices, people

160
00:09:37,040 --> 00:09:41,320
Speaker 1: believe that they are given certain trials or challenges or

161
00:09:41,480 --> 00:09:45,440
Speaker 1: traumas as almost sort of a calling, like even a destiny,

162
00:09:45,440 --> 00:09:48,000
Speaker 1: that God or Heavenly Father or how you want to

163
00:09:48,120 --> 00:09:52,199
Speaker 1: reference your source has chosen this path for you, and

164
00:09:52,440 --> 00:09:57,640
Speaker 1: if you have complete faith in that sort of predestined thinking,

165
00:09:57,679 --> 00:10:00,640
Speaker 1: you will overcome it. My question here is, in your

166
00:10:00,800 --> 00:10:05,120
Speaker 1: years of healing, did you ever question that faith or

167
00:10:05,160 --> 00:10:07,840
Speaker 1: did you ever or did you just accept that this

168
00:10:08,200 --> 00:10:11,800
Speaker 1: was supposed to all happen to you as it's your calling.

169
00:10:13,800 --> 00:10:19,600
Speaker 2: So I am very grateful for the upbringing that I had.

170
00:10:19,600 --> 00:10:21,680
Speaker 2: I'm grateful for my family. I'm grateful for the faith

171
00:10:21,720 --> 00:10:24,360
Speaker 2: that I had growing up. Now as an adult, maybe

172
00:10:24,400 --> 00:10:26,760
Speaker 2: I've just become a little bit more cynical. I don't know,

173
00:10:26,880 --> 00:10:30,480
Speaker 2: but I also just feel like for me, like belief

174
00:10:30,600 --> 00:10:34,160
Speaker 2: is so personal and like I can't just take anyone's

175
00:10:34,200 --> 00:10:37,079
Speaker 2: word for it, Like I have to know something before

176
00:10:37,120 --> 00:10:39,480
Speaker 2: I believe it or not.

177
00:10:39,760 --> 00:10:41,600
Speaker 1: But that's not necessarily the way you were raised, right,

178
00:10:41,640 --> 00:10:42,720
Speaker 1: I mean I wasn't either.

179
00:10:43,520 --> 00:10:46,040
Speaker 2: That's not how I was raised. But that's that's what's

180
00:10:46,080 --> 00:10:48,760
Speaker 2: happened now. And so when you ask me, like, did

181
00:10:48,840 --> 00:10:51,040
Speaker 2: I always just think that was the plan for my life?

182
00:10:51,720 --> 00:10:54,640
Speaker 2: I guess I still as a child and still now

183
00:10:54,760 --> 00:10:59,760
Speaker 2: I feel like God, family, father, whatever name he goes by,

184
00:11:00,760 --> 00:11:03,280
Speaker 2: I want to believe that he loves us. And if

185
00:11:03,280 --> 00:11:06,000
Speaker 2: he loves us, I don't think he would say you're

186
00:11:06,040 --> 00:11:08,800
Speaker 2: going to be kidnapped, You're gonna like, you're going to

187
00:11:08,880 --> 00:11:12,160
Speaker 2: go through divorce, you're going to go through illness, You're

188
00:11:12,160 --> 00:11:16,840
Speaker 2: gonna have find misery and relationships. Like I just can't

189
00:11:17,000 --> 00:11:21,280
Speaker 2: believe that a loving God would want that for us

190
00:11:21,320 --> 00:11:24,400
Speaker 2: in our own I think other people make decisions, and

191
00:11:24,480 --> 00:11:27,959
Speaker 2: we're all free to make our own decisions. I think

192
00:11:28,920 --> 00:11:32,920
Speaker 2: God always wants the best for us, and we can

193
00:11:33,040 --> 00:11:35,600
Speaker 2: let him in as much or as little as we

194
00:11:35,640 --> 00:11:40,320
Speaker 2: want into our lives. And I think that you know,

195
00:11:40,000 --> 00:11:44,200
Speaker 2: if you do let him in, you can I think

196
00:11:44,360 --> 00:11:48,560
Speaker 2: easier find your way forward easier than if you just

197
00:11:49,160 --> 00:11:52,160
Speaker 2: shut everyone and everything and God out of your life completely.

198
00:11:53,040 --> 00:11:56,480
Speaker 1: Yes, it's that faith. You need faith. I've talked about

199
00:11:56,480 --> 00:12:01,800
Speaker 1: that before, and I was never like a real faith believer.

200
00:12:01,960 --> 00:12:05,000
Speaker 1: I didn't feel like I had that support. But once

201
00:12:05,040 --> 00:12:07,760
Speaker 1: I decided that I was missing faith in my life,

202
00:12:08,640 --> 00:12:10,959
Speaker 1: it just really changed everything. I felt so so much

203
00:12:11,000 --> 00:12:14,280
Speaker 1: more supported in whatever journey I was on, you know,

204
00:12:14,880 --> 00:12:18,080
Speaker 1: so I can definitely I love that you're pushing back

205
00:12:18,120 --> 00:12:20,240
Speaker 1: on the beliefs that you were brought up with. I

206
00:12:20,240 --> 00:12:21,920
Speaker 1: think that's what we all should do as we get

207
00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:24,880
Speaker 1: older and kind of define what it is that we want.

208
00:12:26,040 --> 00:12:27,559
Speaker 1: I think that's so admirable.

209
00:12:28,400 --> 00:12:29,000
Speaker 2: Oh thank you.

210
00:12:35,840 --> 00:12:38,240
Speaker 1: This is the thing, though, I'm listening to you, and

211
00:12:38,360 --> 00:12:40,520
Speaker 1: I know your story, and I'm really struggling with something.

212
00:12:40,840 --> 00:12:44,200
Speaker 1: I'm putting myself in your position right now now that

213
00:12:44,240 --> 00:12:48,560
Speaker 1: you are a mom. How do you ever sleep soundly

214
00:12:48,679 --> 00:12:50,600
Speaker 1: at night? How do you sleep in the next room

215
00:12:50,600 --> 00:12:53,600
Speaker 1: to your babies and not just lose your mind with

216
00:12:53,760 --> 00:12:57,400
Speaker 1: worry and fear? I just I can't even imagine ever

217
00:12:57,440 --> 00:12:59,440
Speaker 1: sleeping through a night after what happened to you.

218
00:13:00,120 --> 00:13:04,400
Speaker 2: Oh No, When my first daughter was born, I remember

219
00:13:04,880 --> 00:13:07,800
Speaker 2: just feeling like my heart migrated up to my throat

220
00:13:07,840 --> 00:13:09,880
Speaker 2: to the point that I couldn't breathe anymore, and my

221
00:13:09,920 --> 00:13:12,880
Speaker 2: heart just lived in my throat and I was waiting

222
00:13:12,880 --> 00:13:15,240
Speaker 2: for it to like settle back down into my chest

223
00:13:15,320 --> 00:13:18,120
Speaker 2: and feel like a normal human being. Again, I don't

224
00:13:18,280 --> 00:13:23,600
Speaker 2: know that that's ever actually happened. And I mean it like,

225
00:13:23,640 --> 00:13:26,480
Speaker 2: there are times when I'm just like, I'm not okay

226
00:13:26,520 --> 00:13:29,760
Speaker 2: with this and I feel like I do need to

227
00:13:29,840 --> 00:13:33,200
Speaker 2: know where they're at. I need to know who they're with,

228
00:13:33,559 --> 00:13:38,839
Speaker 2: like I need to. I just I need to know

229
00:13:38,880 --> 00:13:42,000
Speaker 2: what's going on in their lives because otherwise, Yeah, I

230
00:13:42,040 --> 00:13:44,320
Speaker 2: don't think I could function because I just be a

231
00:13:44,360 --> 00:13:46,240
Speaker 2: hot mess all the time. Yeah.

232
00:13:46,280 --> 00:13:50,400
Speaker 1: I mean that's just mother's instinct naturally, But given what

233
00:13:50,559 --> 00:13:54,280
Speaker 1: you went through, I just, yeah, I really that was

234
00:13:54,320 --> 00:13:57,080
Speaker 1: just the one thing for me as a mom. And

235
00:13:57,120 --> 00:14:00,920
Speaker 1: then knowing that you're a mom now of three, I

236
00:14:01,040 --> 00:14:04,439
Speaker 1: just my heart goes out to what that must be like.

237
00:14:06,200 --> 00:14:10,400
Speaker 2: It's you know, it's good that I have my husband

238
00:14:10,440 --> 00:14:13,120
Speaker 2: here to be the voice of reason.

239
00:14:13,240 --> 00:14:18,960
Speaker 1: Sometimes, Yeah, that's that's helpful for me as well. Sometimes

240
00:14:19,040 --> 00:14:22,240
Speaker 1: you need that voice of reason to get you to

241
00:14:22,520 --> 00:14:25,880
Speaker 1: just calm down do you teach your kids about your past,

242
00:14:25,920 --> 00:14:28,040
Speaker 1: about what happened, and how do you do that without

243
00:14:29,640 --> 00:14:32,960
Speaker 1: allowing that to sort of define their outlook or their

244
00:14:33,000 --> 00:14:34,000
Speaker 1: future or their fear.

245
00:14:35,600 --> 00:14:37,720
Speaker 2: So one of the I wish I came up with this.

246
00:14:37,840 --> 00:14:40,280
Speaker 2: I wish I was like this brilliant, but I'm not.

247
00:14:40,880 --> 00:14:43,680
Speaker 2: But one of the best pieces of parent and advice

248
00:14:43,800 --> 00:14:47,760
Speaker 2: I was given was when your kids start asking you questions,

249
00:14:47,840 --> 00:14:50,720
Speaker 2: that's the right time to start talking about it. And

250
00:14:50,840 --> 00:14:54,360
Speaker 2: remember I was given that advice before even my first

251
00:14:54,520 --> 00:14:57,520
Speaker 2: was born, and I just remember thinking, that's really good advice.

252
00:14:57,560 --> 00:14:59,080
Speaker 2: I'm going to do that. I'm going to make sure

253
00:14:59,080 --> 00:15:01,280
Speaker 2: there's an when I talk to my kids, like we're

254
00:15:01,280 --> 00:15:03,600
Speaker 2: going to use the correct body part names, like I'm

255
00:15:03,640 --> 00:15:07,560
Speaker 2: not gonna attect, I'm not gonna attach shame to like

256
00:15:07,680 --> 00:15:10,680
Speaker 2: penis or vagina, Like nobody cares if you say elbow

257
00:15:10,800 --> 00:15:13,400
Speaker 2: or me, Like why should be a DIF friend? Because

258
00:15:13,480 --> 00:15:16,040
Speaker 2: for me, like as a kid growing up, I was

259
00:15:16,120 --> 00:15:23,560
Speaker 2: just like oh, but so like I had all these

260
00:15:23,600 --> 00:15:26,120
Speaker 2: ideas of how I was going to parent my children,

261
00:15:26,200 --> 00:15:28,280
Speaker 2: and I was like, yeah, when they ask questions, I'm

262
00:15:28,320 --> 00:15:30,040
Speaker 2: going to give them like the answers, like I won't

263
00:15:30,080 --> 00:15:31,920
Speaker 2: be lying to my kids or being like, oh, that's

264
00:15:32,280 --> 00:15:36,960
Speaker 2: conversation for when you're older. Well, that ended up bringing

265
00:15:37,000 --> 00:15:39,920
Speaker 2: me to speaking to my oldest when she was three

266
00:15:40,040 --> 00:15:45,480
Speaker 2: years old about them, because she started asking questions. I

267
00:15:45,520 --> 00:15:47,840
Speaker 2: was like, I am not ready for this, Like I'm

268
00:15:47,880 --> 00:15:48,400
Speaker 2: not ready to go.

269
00:15:48,720 --> 00:15:50,400
Speaker 1: How does she know at three years old to ask

270
00:15:50,520 --> 00:15:51,200
Speaker 1: questions about it.

271
00:15:51,560 --> 00:15:53,520
Speaker 2: I was getting ready one day to go to a

272
00:15:53,560 --> 00:15:58,120
Speaker 2: parole hearing and she kept asking me where are you going?

273
00:15:58,200 --> 00:16:00,960
Speaker 2: Where are you going? I was like, oh, I'm headed

274
00:16:01,080 --> 00:16:04,840
Speaker 2: down too. Uh prison, there's there's you know, And she's like,

275
00:16:04,880 --> 00:16:06,560
Speaker 2: why are you going there? She's like, you're in trouble.

276
00:16:06,640 --> 00:16:09,480
Speaker 2: I was like no, I was like, I'm going down

277
00:16:09,480 --> 00:16:11,640
Speaker 2: there to make sure that people who do bad things

278
00:16:11,760 --> 00:16:15,240
Speaker 2: don't get out. And she's like, well, what bad things

279
00:16:15,240 --> 00:16:17,360
Speaker 2: do they do? She's like why are you going? Did

280
00:16:17,400 --> 00:16:18,800
Speaker 2: they do something to you? Oh?

281
00:16:18,880 --> 00:16:20,480
Speaker 1: She's curious about everything.

282
00:16:22,080 --> 00:16:25,040
Speaker 2: So I mean that did end up me talking about

283
00:16:25,440 --> 00:16:28,720
Speaker 2: what happened. But I mean it was like it wasn't

284
00:16:29,160 --> 00:16:31,920
Speaker 2: it wasn't deep levels. I mean it was like really

285
00:16:31,960 --> 00:16:34,280
Speaker 2: started off as you know, a long time ago, when

286
00:16:34,320 --> 00:16:36,920
Speaker 2: I was very little, there was a man and woman

287
00:16:37,080 --> 00:16:39,480
Speaker 2: who came in and took me and they hurt me,

288
00:16:39,560 --> 00:16:41,200
Speaker 2: and they hurt me for a long time. But now

289
00:16:41,200 --> 00:16:42,840
Speaker 2: they're in prison, so I want to make sure they

290
00:16:42,880 --> 00:16:45,720
Speaker 2: stay there so they don't hurt anybody else. That was

291
00:16:45,840 --> 00:16:50,040
Speaker 2: kind of that first conversation with her. But then as

292
00:16:50,160 --> 00:16:53,680
Speaker 2: as she's grown, I'd say that conversation has grown as well.

293
00:16:53,800 --> 00:16:56,480
Speaker 2: And like, you know, when I say no to things

294
00:16:56,520 --> 00:17:00,080
Speaker 2: that they want, I'm usually like, you know, do you

295
00:17:00,120 --> 00:17:02,760
Speaker 2: remember what my job is. My job is to keep

296
00:17:02,760 --> 00:17:05,520
Speaker 2: you safe? Do you know why, Like I'm not letting

297
00:17:05,560 --> 00:17:07,240
Speaker 2: you do this because this is not safe.

298
00:17:08,760 --> 00:17:11,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's hard to set those boundaries with your kids,

299
00:17:11,119 --> 00:17:13,280
Speaker 1: but I can imagine it being double hard for you

300
00:17:13,920 --> 00:17:19,600
Speaker 1: because they want what everybody else is doing. And I, yeah, it's.

301
00:17:19,440 --> 00:17:23,280
Speaker 2: Got to be hard completely. Yeah, So it's you know,

302
00:17:23,560 --> 00:17:27,119
Speaker 2: sometimes it goes over better than others and sometimes not.

303
00:17:28,160 --> 00:17:30,920
Speaker 1: I'm sure. Yeah. And as they've gotten older, and as

304
00:17:30,920 --> 00:17:34,040
Speaker 1: they continue to get older, those those curiosities and those

305
00:17:34,119 --> 00:17:37,119
Speaker 1: questions will keep coming up, especially if they see the

306
00:17:37,200 --> 00:17:40,560
Speaker 1: documentary or they you know, they hear the stories from

307
00:17:40,680 --> 00:17:43,640
Speaker 1: kids at school or on the internet or whatever it's

308
00:17:43,680 --> 00:17:46,119
Speaker 1: gonna get. You know, they have to know the truth.

309
00:17:46,200 --> 00:17:49,440
Speaker 1: And I think that that's you're going about it the

310
00:17:49,480 --> 00:17:52,360
Speaker 1: right way to by telling them the truth, because sometimes

311
00:17:52,440 --> 00:17:56,480
Speaker 1: I feel like I in sort of create more fear

312
00:17:56,480 --> 00:18:00,359
Speaker 1: in my kids by telling them the harsh reality pies

313
00:18:01,080 --> 00:18:04,680
Speaker 1: out there. But also at the same time, I think

314
00:18:04,880 --> 00:18:07,280
Speaker 1: you need to be afraid. You need to have a

315
00:18:07,320 --> 00:18:10,280
Speaker 1: certain level of fear in order to remember to keep

316
00:18:10,280 --> 00:18:13,320
Speaker 1: yourself safe even when you think you know nothing's going

317
00:18:13,320 --> 00:18:13,920
Speaker 1: to happen to you.

318
00:18:15,280 --> 00:18:18,120
Speaker 2: I think for me it's very important that I mean

319
00:18:18,840 --> 00:18:22,440
Speaker 2: all my kids, but my girls in particular, feel strong

320
00:18:22,600 --> 00:18:25,159
Speaker 2: and capable. I mean, I know I was raised to

321
00:18:25,760 --> 00:18:28,679
Speaker 2: always be polite. I was always raised to you know,

322
00:18:28,760 --> 00:18:33,320
Speaker 2: respect my elders, all those kinds of things, and it

323
00:18:33,400 --> 00:18:37,840
Speaker 2: was very hard for me to say no. So I

324
00:18:37,840 --> 00:18:40,360
Speaker 2: want them to feel like they can fight back, that

325
00:18:40,400 --> 00:18:44,440
Speaker 2: they can say no, that they have my permission to

326
00:18:44,480 --> 00:18:48,720
Speaker 2: not be polite, and that if anyone is ever inappropriate

327
00:18:48,800 --> 00:18:55,080
Speaker 2: with them anywhere, that they can that they can stand

328
00:18:55,160 --> 00:18:57,560
Speaker 2: up for themselves and that all back them up. So,

329
00:18:57,680 --> 00:19:00,199
Speaker 2: I mean, if anyone ever tried touching them or or

330
00:19:00,560 --> 00:19:03,199
Speaker 2: sneaking into the room while they're naked or something like that,

331
00:19:03,240 --> 00:19:07,200
Speaker 2: and they turned around and like they defended themselves and

332
00:19:07,680 --> 00:19:10,480
Speaker 2: maybe someone else like they brought got brought to the

333
00:19:10,800 --> 00:19:12,600
Speaker 2: I don't know the principle or something was like, oh,

334
00:19:12,640 --> 00:19:14,560
Speaker 2: you know your daughter punched so and so on. I'd

335
00:19:14,560 --> 00:19:17,560
Speaker 2: be like, yeah, that's because I told her to, and

336
00:19:17,680 --> 00:19:20,280
Speaker 2: I want her to feel strong, and I want her

337
00:19:20,359 --> 00:19:22,440
Speaker 2: to know that nobody has the right to touch her

338
00:19:22,520 --> 00:19:25,679
Speaker 2: and that she doesn't have to be nice to everyone.

339
00:19:25,720 --> 00:19:28,600
Speaker 2: I've heard this example given so many times, and I

340
00:19:28,600 --> 00:19:32,119
Speaker 2: think it's such a good example. If you look at

341
00:19:32,119 --> 00:19:36,280
Speaker 2: the Animal Kingdom and a lion wasn't an elevator, you

342
00:19:36,320 --> 00:19:39,919
Speaker 2: would never see, like a gazelle get into the elevator

343
00:19:39,960 --> 00:19:43,520
Speaker 2: with the lion, you'd never see the other animal, the

344
00:19:44,359 --> 00:19:48,720
Speaker 2: prey willingly get into the elevator. But yet we as

345
00:19:48,800 --> 00:19:52,560
Speaker 2: human beings, like even if your gut is screaming, don't

346
00:19:52,600 --> 00:19:55,920
Speaker 2: get into that elevator, we will still do it because

347
00:19:55,960 --> 00:19:58,000
Speaker 2: we don't want to appear rude, We don't want to

348
00:19:58,000 --> 00:20:02,080
Speaker 2: appear judgmental, We don't know, like, we.

349
00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:03,000
Speaker 1: Don't want to make it awkward.

350
00:20:03,440 --> 00:20:07,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, we silence, are we just silenced like the warnings

351
00:20:07,920 --> 00:20:10,320
Speaker 2: in our gut, the little voice in the back of

352
00:20:10,359 --> 00:20:12,399
Speaker 2: our head, and just think, no, no, that's just me

353
00:20:12,480 --> 00:20:15,240
Speaker 2: being paranoid. Well, I think it's okay to be paranoid.

354
00:20:15,320 --> 00:20:19,560
Speaker 2: Sometimes you're safe should come before other people's feelings. And

355
00:20:19,600 --> 00:20:23,160
Speaker 2: as as that sounds, I believe it. I do too.

356
00:20:23,400 --> 00:20:27,800
Speaker 1: Honestly, in your book, you write, the right people help

357
00:20:27,880 --> 00:20:32,359
Speaker 1: you breathe deeper, trust more, and keep going. The wrong ones,

358
00:20:32,400 --> 00:20:35,320
Speaker 1: no matter how well meaning, can leave you feeling lonelier

359
00:20:35,359 --> 00:20:38,600
Speaker 1: than if you had walked the road alone. I'm curious,

360
00:20:38,640 --> 00:20:42,199
Speaker 1: how did you find the right people after all this

361
00:20:42,280 --> 00:20:45,680
Speaker 1: to help you navigate these detours as you call them.

362
00:20:46,800 --> 00:20:52,520
Speaker 2: So for me, it was just it was I mean,

363
00:20:52,560 --> 00:20:56,000
Speaker 2: it was finding people who just liked me for me.

364
00:20:56,840 --> 00:21:00,880
Speaker 2: Who didn't like me because of a lie Elizabeth Smart

365
00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:05,520
Speaker 2: or because of the past, or because I got extra

366
00:21:05,600 --> 00:21:08,720
Speaker 2: attention or anything like that. They just they liked me

367
00:21:08,840 --> 00:21:12,120
Speaker 2: for me. I mean, like even the example of my husband,

368
00:21:12,160 --> 00:21:15,320
Speaker 2: he had no idea who I was. He didn't know

369
00:21:15,440 --> 00:21:19,159
Speaker 2: my story. I mean, he was just this boy from Scotland, like,

370
00:21:19,840 --> 00:21:23,720
Speaker 2: never heard of Elizabeth Smart. And when he met me,

371
00:21:23,760 --> 00:21:27,560
Speaker 2: he's like, oh, like she's cute and she's nice, and yeah,

372
00:21:27,560 --> 00:21:29,480
Speaker 2: I wouldn't mind talking to her a little bit more.

373
00:21:30,160 --> 00:21:35,480
Speaker 2: And for me, that was a huge different like such refreshing,

374
00:21:35,560 --> 00:21:38,760
Speaker 2: because on the other hand, I had so many kind,

375
00:21:38,920 --> 00:21:42,080
Speaker 2: well meaning people who'd be like, oh, Elizabeth, I know

376
00:21:42,160 --> 00:21:44,639
Speaker 2: you must be struggling so much. What would you like

377
00:21:44,680 --> 00:21:47,240
Speaker 2: to talk about? Should we talk about? Like what you

378
00:21:47,359 --> 00:21:51,040
Speaker 2: experienced while you were kidnapping? What was that first night like?

379
00:21:51,160 --> 00:21:53,920
Speaker 2: And even though I know they're being kind, it also

380
00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:58,399
Speaker 2: just felt like they had like this morbid curiosity that

381
00:21:58,480 --> 00:22:01,399
Speaker 2: they wanting to like dig in more and more and

382
00:22:01,440 --> 00:22:04,960
Speaker 2: more for which again, that was just not something I

383
00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:09,119
Speaker 2: wanted to talk about and I wanted to leave it

384
00:22:09,160 --> 00:22:11,639
Speaker 2: in the past. So that is a I get I

385
00:22:11,640 --> 00:22:15,320
Speaker 2: feel like a very basic example of you know, well

386
00:22:15,359 --> 00:22:18,880
Speaker 2: meaning people but maybe not the best to be around

387
00:22:19,480 --> 00:22:23,800
Speaker 2: versus people that really loved me for me and my

388
00:22:23,920 --> 00:22:26,360
Speaker 2: past made no difference to them at all.

389
00:22:27,359 --> 00:22:31,000
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, how did you? How did you get rid

390
00:22:31,040 --> 00:22:33,040
Speaker 1: of the wrong ones in a healthy way, in a

391
00:22:33,080 --> 00:22:36,159
Speaker 1: way that wasn't like off you know, off putting to

392
00:22:36,200 --> 00:22:38,920
Speaker 1: them or some sometimes you can be off putting if

393
00:22:39,040 --> 00:22:41,439
Speaker 1: that's what you need to do, but like if they

394
00:22:41,440 --> 00:22:43,960
Speaker 1: were close friends and family, like, how did you say,

395
00:22:44,040 --> 00:22:46,560
Speaker 1: like I need space from you and I don't want

396
00:22:46,600 --> 00:22:47,199
Speaker 1: to discuss this.

397
00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:53,119
Speaker 2: I just I just like i'd usually just be like, oh,

398
00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:55,720
Speaker 2: you know, thank you so much for like caring, thank

399
00:22:55,760 --> 00:23:00,320
Speaker 2: you so much. I'm okay right now. Yeah, I'll let

400
00:23:00,320 --> 00:23:02,640
Speaker 2: you know if I need to talk about it later,

401
00:23:03,600 --> 00:23:04,600
Speaker 2: but I'm okay right now.

402
00:23:04,920 --> 00:23:07,800
Speaker 1: And then you just sort of like you like, thin

403
00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:10,240
Speaker 1: the weeds a little and find you're right the path

404
00:23:10,359 --> 00:23:13,240
Speaker 1: of the little patch of grass that feels right. I'm

405
00:23:13,280 --> 00:23:17,639
Speaker 1: so glad that you found your husband. I mean, what

406
00:23:17,760 --> 00:23:21,119
Speaker 1: a wonderful gift to have somebody that's walking beside you.

407
00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:25,280
Speaker 2: Yeah. No, I'm so happy we found each other.

408
00:23:26,080 --> 00:23:35,800
Speaker 1: Yeah. You call them detours, like I mentioned, you also

409
00:23:35,800 --> 00:23:40,800
Speaker 1: call them rock slides, those unexpected events and experiences, whatever

410
00:23:40,840 --> 00:23:42,880
Speaker 1: you call them. Those can end up causing a lot

411
00:23:42,920 --> 00:23:47,320
Speaker 1: of pain. And you have experienced, you know, some pretty

412
00:23:47,400 --> 00:23:51,600
Speaker 1: major detours, from the kidnapping to that phone call from

413
00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:53,720
Speaker 1: your dad telling you that he and your mom are

414
00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:56,520
Speaker 1: getting a divorce that I'm sure shook you. I'm sure

415
00:23:56,560 --> 00:23:58,840
Speaker 1: there have been other painful events in the course of

416
00:23:58,840 --> 00:24:02,920
Speaker 1: your life so far. How do you work through that

417
00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:06,879
Speaker 1: residual pain, I guess is my question again.

418
00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:09,280
Speaker 2: I feel like it it is like going through these

419
00:24:09,320 --> 00:24:11,960
Speaker 2: steps in the book, you know, like grieving the loss,

420
00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:16,359
Speaker 2: then you know, trying to navigate a new way forward

421
00:24:16,520 --> 00:24:21,040
Speaker 2: pursuing connection. So I mean, for instance, in my parents' divorce,

422
00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:24,560
Speaker 2: my siblings were going through the same thing, and so

423
00:24:24,800 --> 00:24:30,040
Speaker 2: I feel like it brought us together in some ways

424
00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:37,320
Speaker 2: that maybe it wouldn't have either otherwise. And listening, I

425
00:24:37,320 --> 00:24:40,399
Speaker 2: feel like it gave me like a new understanding and

426
00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:44,760
Speaker 2: compassion for other people who would experience the same things.

427
00:24:44,760 --> 00:24:47,560
Speaker 2: And you know, I think back to like my childhood

428
00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:50,000
Speaker 2: and I had a lot of friends whose parents were divorced,

429
00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:52,560
Speaker 2: and I had no idea what that was. That was

430
00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:54,879
Speaker 2: like as a kid, and you know, they'd be like, oh,

431
00:24:54,920 --> 00:24:56,439
Speaker 2: I'm going to my mom's house and I'm going to

432
00:24:56,480 --> 00:25:00,119
Speaker 2: my dad's house now. And now I'm like, man, I

433
00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:05,600
Speaker 2: feel like I can't that sounds awful. I can't imagine.

434
00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:08,440
Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, because my parents divorced when I was

435
00:25:08,440 --> 00:25:10,919
Speaker 2: an adult. That's terrible. So I still feel like it

436
00:25:10,960 --> 00:25:15,919
Speaker 2: gave me compassion and empathy, and you know, it's caused

437
00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:21,280
Speaker 2: me to like pursue more connections in my life, meaningful connections.

438
00:25:21,840 --> 00:25:25,200
Speaker 2: It forced me into well force is maybe the wrong word,

439
00:25:25,280 --> 00:25:28,800
Speaker 2: but before my parents were divorced, i'd say, my relationship

440
00:25:28,800 --> 00:25:31,240
Speaker 2: with my dad kind of piggybacked off of my mom

441
00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:33,920
Speaker 2: because I talked to my mom so much before they

442
00:25:33,920 --> 00:25:36,920
Speaker 2: were divorced that like, if my dad was around, just

443
00:25:37,040 --> 00:25:38,720
Speaker 2: be like, oh hey Dad, Yeah, how are you doing? Yep,

444
00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:42,080
Speaker 2: We're good, okay, yep. See yeah. But then you know,

445
00:25:42,119 --> 00:25:45,440
Speaker 2: when they divorced, like I had to be very intentional

446
00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:49,240
Speaker 2: about my relationship with him because it couldn't just piggyback

447
00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:53,720
Speaker 2: off my mom anymore because they weren't together anymore. So

448
00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:59,040
Speaker 2: I feel like that was a good good I mean,

449
00:25:59,080 --> 00:26:02,200
Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, a good thing for me to really

450
00:26:02,359 --> 00:26:06,119
Speaker 2: establish my own relationship. But yeah, kind of opened a

451
00:26:06,119 --> 00:26:10,240
Speaker 2: different door for you as far as that connection, I think. Yeah.

452
00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:13,040
Speaker 2: And then you know, like as you move forward down

453
00:26:13,080 --> 00:26:16,720
Speaker 2: these new paths, finding like the joys are the reasons

454
00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:19,760
Speaker 2: to be thankful along the time. I mean again, had

455
00:26:19,760 --> 00:26:23,800
Speaker 2: I not been kidnapped, you know, I'd like to think

456
00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:26,600
Speaker 2: that I would still care as much as I do

457
00:26:26,760 --> 00:26:32,879
Speaker 2: about sexual abuse, violence, subduction, domestic violence, I'd love to

458
00:26:32,880 --> 00:26:35,199
Speaker 2: think that I care as deeply as I do. But

459
00:26:35,280 --> 00:26:37,639
Speaker 2: also I think I probably would have continued living a

460
00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:41,560
Speaker 2: life where those conversations were not being had I can

461
00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:44,840
Speaker 2: very easily imagine maybing like oh those are terrible, that's

462
00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:48,800
Speaker 2: so sad, that's terrible, But that doesn't happen very often.

463
00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:51,719
Speaker 2: That doesn't happen to me, So like people who know

464
00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:54,320
Speaker 2: what they're doing are already dealing with it, whereas now

465
00:26:54,320 --> 00:26:57,240
Speaker 2: I'm like, this is everywhere, Like you want to talk

466
00:26:57,280 --> 00:27:02,840
Speaker 2: about an epidemic, like talk about domestic violence or sexual abuse,

467
00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:05,800
Speaker 2: like numbers are through the roof.

468
00:27:08,359 --> 00:27:11,120
Speaker 1: I think sometimes people are just like, like you said,

469
00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:15,119
Speaker 1: it's not happening to me. That's terrible. But there's that also,

470
00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:17,640
Speaker 1: that just ability to kind of shut it off because

471
00:27:18,280 --> 00:27:21,960
Speaker 1: either it's just so ugly we don't want to look

472
00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:23,320
Speaker 1: at it, we don't want to think about it, or

473
00:27:23,359 --> 00:27:25,440
Speaker 1: if we do, maybe we'll bring it into our lives

474
00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:27,200
Speaker 1: or something exactly.

475
00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:32,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, So now I'm grateful that it has given me

476
00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:39,760
Speaker 2: this empathy and understanding and confecsion and like desire to

477
00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:44,520
Speaker 2: want to change is our nation? Our world?

478
00:27:44,840 --> 00:27:48,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, lit up a passion inside of you that maybe

479
00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:49,520
Speaker 1: never would have ignited.

480
00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:52,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly what do you do.

481
00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:56,159
Speaker 1: Though, when your brain reminds you of stories that you

482
00:27:56,200 --> 00:27:58,760
Speaker 1: don't want to think about anymore? Like how do you

483
00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:02,520
Speaker 1: quiet the those memories or voices inside your mind.

484
00:28:03,320 --> 00:28:06,399
Speaker 2: So I feel like there, I mean, I feel like

485
00:28:06,440 --> 00:28:10,200
Speaker 2: it's something actually you preach and it's kind of choosing

486
00:28:10,359 --> 00:28:13,800
Speaker 2: to take care of yourself or having practices that you

487
00:28:14,600 --> 00:28:17,080
Speaker 2: make a part of your life so that when maybe

488
00:28:17,359 --> 00:28:20,000
Speaker 2: something does become too much, you can step back and

489
00:28:20,040 --> 00:28:22,560
Speaker 2: take a break. Because I think breaks are great. I

490
00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:23,680
Speaker 2: think breaks are wonderful.

491
00:28:23,720 --> 00:28:24,480
Speaker 1: So makes are the.

492
00:28:24,359 --> 00:28:28,320
Speaker 2: Best going for a walk? Is that listening to an

493
00:28:28,359 --> 00:28:31,000
Speaker 2: audiobook or a podcast, or a piece of music, or

494
00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:34,720
Speaker 2: maybe it's playing music or singing music yourself, or making

495
00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:39,240
Speaker 2: a cake, or just doing something that's engaging your senses

496
00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:44,400
Speaker 2: in something other than just sitting, like letting those memories

497
00:28:44,520 --> 00:28:45,160
Speaker 2: overtake you.

498
00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:48,920
Speaker 1: And you've had that, I'm sure, those moments where it's coming,

499
00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:51,560
Speaker 1: it's happening, you're starting to swirl down that memory of

500
00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:55,400
Speaker 1: a toilet, you know, and those that's when you consciously

501
00:28:55,440 --> 00:28:57,840
Speaker 1: are like, Okay, nope, we are going to focus on

502
00:28:57,880 --> 00:28:58,880
Speaker 1: something else right now.

503
00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:03,160
Speaker 2: Yes, Yes, definitely, I have had those experience.

504
00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:07,720
Speaker 1: That takes such self awareness, I think, and it also

505
00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:11,080
Speaker 1: takes a certain amount of strength to It's almost like

506
00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:18,600
Speaker 1: training your brain to not think certain things because you

507
00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:21,360
Speaker 1: know they're not going to do you any good.

508
00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:26,320
Speaker 2: I yeah, I agree completely. I think our brain has

509
00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:31,560
Speaker 2: so much power and influence on how we live our

510
00:29:31,640 --> 00:29:34,520
Speaker 2: daily lives, and I think it's so important for us

511
00:29:34,560 --> 00:29:38,320
Speaker 2: to train our brains to be kind to us because

512
00:29:38,320 --> 00:29:41,080
Speaker 2: I think if you just like go down that toilet

513
00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:44,040
Speaker 2: bowl of negativity, that is what your brain is going

514
00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:45,880
Speaker 2: to say to you. That's just going to make it

515
00:29:45,920 --> 00:29:48,800
Speaker 2: even worse and worse. But I think when you find

516
00:29:48,840 --> 00:29:52,920
Speaker 2: yourself going down that negative spiral, if you have like

517
00:29:53,160 --> 00:29:59,800
Speaker 2: spoken kind words to yourself repeatedly, and you have incorporated

518
00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:02,880
Speaker 2: like healthy practices into your life, or have been able

519
00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:06,040
Speaker 2: to say no, I'm not comfortable with this, or felt

520
00:30:06,080 --> 00:30:09,200
Speaker 2: like you have some control given back to you in

521
00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:12,000
Speaker 2: your life, like the ability to say no, the ability

522
00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:15,600
Speaker 2: to have a car to be able to get into

523
00:30:15,680 --> 00:30:18,920
Speaker 2: to drive away if a situation feels unsafe, or a

524
00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:23,280
Speaker 2: phone to call someone to come pick you up. I mean, like,

525
00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:27,240
Speaker 2: I think it's these are just like really important practices

526
00:30:27,360 --> 00:30:31,000
Speaker 2: to engage in regularly, and starting by speaking kindly to

527
00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:34,560
Speaker 2: yourself in your inner dialogue.

528
00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:39,760
Speaker 1: Yes, that inner dialogue is so can be so crafty,

529
00:30:41,120 --> 00:30:47,560
Speaker 1: so wicked sometimes to just undermine us and knock us out.

530
00:30:48,160 --> 00:30:52,520
Speaker 2: I agree completely. I have run a number of marathons.

531
00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:55,960
Speaker 1: And how many marathons have you run?

532
00:30:56,400 --> 00:30:58,000
Speaker 2: Well? In my book, I said four, and I was

533
00:30:58,040 --> 00:31:01,040
Speaker 2: about to run five. I go to the fifth one,

534
00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:03,560
Speaker 2: and the morning of the fifth one, it actually was

535
00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:07,000
Speaker 2: canceled due to weather and accidents.

536
00:31:07,320 --> 00:31:09,680
Speaker 1: Oh no, so you drained and then it was canceled.

537
00:31:09,920 --> 00:31:11,960
Speaker 2: I trained, and I've still only run four.

538
00:31:12,760 --> 00:31:16,000
Speaker 1: But before hi, I've never run to the corner. So

539
00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:17,640
Speaker 1: good job for you.

540
00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:21,360
Speaker 2: Oh thank you. But in each marathon, there's always been

541
00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:25,000
Speaker 2: like a wall that I have hit. I feel like

542
00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:29,440
Speaker 2: it's usually between mile like eighteen and twenty one where

543
00:31:29,480 --> 00:31:32,040
Speaker 2: I'm just like, I can't do this. Why am I

544
00:31:32,120 --> 00:31:37,120
Speaker 2: torturing myself? I paid for this torture. I paid to

545
00:31:37,440 --> 00:31:41,560
Speaker 2: like for this misery. My whole body hurts. What am

546
00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:43,200
Speaker 2: I doing? I shouldn't have done this? And I kind

547
00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:47,800
Speaker 2: of start that negative self talk, and then I'll have

548
00:31:47,840 --> 00:31:51,160
Speaker 2: my my like, I'll catch myself in this negative self talk,

549
00:31:51,240 --> 00:31:55,600
Speaker 2: and like my brain will say, Elizabeth, pull yourself together.

550
00:31:55,800 --> 00:32:01,280
Speaker 2: You survived nine months with these two monster. You are

551
00:32:01,360 --> 00:32:05,480
Speaker 2: not going to let this little marathon stop you. Like

552
00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:08,160
Speaker 2: you are not going to stop at twenty miles or

553
00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:10,440
Speaker 2: twenty one miles, you are going to finish it. If

554
00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:12,680
Speaker 2: you have to curl on your hands and knees, like

555
00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:17,080
Speaker 2: you are stronger than this marathon. Usually at that point

556
00:32:17,120 --> 00:32:18,840
Speaker 2: in time be like, Okay, I can do this, I

557
00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:20,400
Speaker 2: can finish and I did.

558
00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:24,760
Speaker 1: Wow. I mean that is like kind of like parenting

559
00:32:24,800 --> 00:32:31,440
Speaker 1: yourself from within, you know, like you said, basically, once

560
00:32:31,480 --> 00:32:33,760
Speaker 1: you conquer something that you didn't think you could conquer,

561
00:32:33,840 --> 00:32:38,800
Speaker 1: and in your case a very extraordinary situation, but even

562
00:32:38,840 --> 00:32:43,520
Speaker 1: in smaller situations, once you realize, look what I've done,

563
00:32:43,840 --> 00:32:47,400
Speaker 1: I can do anything. Now, there's nothing I can't survive,

564
00:32:48,800 --> 00:32:52,400
Speaker 1: it really gives you that sort of like peace to

565
00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:54,720
Speaker 1: rely on yourself in a whole new way.

566
00:32:55,880 --> 00:32:59,200
Speaker 2: Absolutely, And I just think, you know, people come to

567
00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:01,120
Speaker 2: me all the time and they're like, oh, Elizabeth, you're

568
00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:04,080
Speaker 2: so strong. You're so strong. I could never go through

569
00:33:04,120 --> 00:33:06,880
Speaker 2: what you went through. That is just something so far

570
00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:09,080
Speaker 2: beyond me. I couldn't do that. I couldn't do that. Well,

571
00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:11,320
Speaker 2: if you told me what I was going to go

572
00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:13,400
Speaker 2: through before I went through it, I would say the

573
00:33:13,480 --> 00:33:16,040
Speaker 2: same thing. I would say, Well, I couldn't do that.

574
00:33:16,080 --> 00:33:18,000
Speaker 2: Are you kidding me, like, I'm not strong enough to

575
00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:19,840
Speaker 2: go through that. I think I'd rather die than go

576
00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:25,400
Speaker 2: through that. But when you don't have a choice, yeah,

577
00:33:25,520 --> 00:33:28,720
Speaker 2: you don't have a choice. You just survive. You just

578
00:33:28,760 --> 00:33:31,120
Speaker 2: do what you have to do. And I wish everyone

579
00:33:31,560 --> 00:33:36,400
Speaker 2: could recognize that in themselves. We will all go through

580
00:33:36,440 --> 00:33:41,240
Speaker 2: something in life where you think I I can't do

581
00:33:41,360 --> 00:33:44,160
Speaker 2: this or I can't go on, But then you also

582
00:33:44,320 --> 00:33:49,400
Speaker 2: realize you don't have a choice. You can't just wave

583
00:33:49,480 --> 00:33:53,000
Speaker 2: a magic wand and make the situation disappear, right, You

584
00:33:53,040 --> 00:33:57,160
Speaker 2: just have to go through it. And Wow, Like, aren't

585
00:33:57,160 --> 00:33:59,800
Speaker 2: we all so strong? Aren't we all so incredible?

586
00:33:59,840 --> 00:34:02,880
Speaker 1: I mean, it's within us all. I think we just

587
00:34:02,920 --> 00:34:03,560
Speaker 1: don't know it.

588
00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:06,800
Speaker 2: Sometimes aren't people just incredible and amazing?

589
00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:10,560
Speaker 1: I want to ask you about sort of like the

590
00:34:10,680 --> 00:34:16,120
Speaker 1: victim versus survivor topic. There's a quote from your book

591
00:34:16,360 --> 00:34:18,920
Speaker 1: where you say, here is where I see the difference.

592
00:34:18,920 --> 00:34:23,840
Speaker 1: While survivors are working tirelessly to overcome their rock slides

593
00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:28,759
Speaker 1: and navigate their detours, victims have fallen prey to the

594
00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:30,960
Speaker 1: idea that they are their trauma.

595
00:34:32,520 --> 00:34:32,920
Speaker 2: I mean, the.

596
00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:38,200
Speaker 1: Truth is, you were a victim, but you've chosen to

597
00:34:38,280 --> 00:34:40,400
Speaker 1: be a survivor, and that is incredible, But do you

598
00:34:40,520 --> 00:34:45,200
Speaker 1: think do you ever feel like labeling victim or survivor

599
00:34:45,600 --> 00:34:49,920
Speaker 1: can become problematic? Because I mean, the truth is it's

600
00:34:49,960 --> 00:34:52,480
Speaker 1: not a linear thing, this healing that has to happen,

601
00:34:53,200 --> 00:34:57,480
Speaker 1: and you know, it's a daily choice.

602
00:34:57,680 --> 00:35:00,759
Speaker 2: I mean, I feel like the only person that can

603
00:35:00,920 --> 00:35:05,239
Speaker 2: label you accurately as yourself. So I'm not going to

604
00:35:05,320 --> 00:35:07,680
Speaker 2: sit here and be like, she is a survivor. She

605
00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:10,640
Speaker 2: is not. He's a survivor. She is a survivor, he's

606
00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:13,719
Speaker 2: a victim, right Like, I will never sit here and

607
00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:17,680
Speaker 2: do that. I think it's in each one of us

608
00:35:17,680 --> 00:35:21,640
Speaker 2: to decide for ourselves what are we And you're absolutely right,

609
00:35:21,719 --> 00:35:25,759
Speaker 2: healing is not linear. And I mean you can be

610
00:35:25,840 --> 00:35:29,080
Speaker 2: going along like five ten years down the road being

611
00:35:29,120 --> 00:35:33,160
Speaker 2: like life is just great, like no problems whatsoever, and

612
00:35:33,200 --> 00:35:36,480
Speaker 2: then all of a sudden, it's just like something something

613
00:35:36,520 --> 00:35:38,840
Speaker 2: blows up to the surface and you're like, but I

614
00:35:38,960 --> 00:35:42,440
Speaker 2: already worked through this, Why is this coming up now?

615
00:35:43,080 --> 00:35:47,279
Speaker 2: I mean, that's that's totally normal. That it doesn't mean

616
00:35:47,320 --> 00:35:50,279
Speaker 2: you didn't heal, or that you're not better today than

617
00:35:50,320 --> 00:35:52,520
Speaker 2: you were ten years ago or five years ago or

618
00:35:52,560 --> 00:35:56,800
Speaker 2: however long like that that just happens as part of life.

619
00:35:56,920 --> 00:35:59,520
Speaker 2: I mean, and you work through it again, and you

620
00:35:59,600 --> 00:36:02,440
Speaker 2: keep moving and you keep you don't give up. You

621
00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:05,200
Speaker 2: don't just think, well I failed, I didn't maybe I

622
00:36:05,239 --> 00:36:07,520
Speaker 2: didn't do enough therapy sessions, or maybe I didn't you know,

623
00:36:07,600 --> 00:36:11,000
Speaker 2: like do enough self reflection, or like you don't give up.

624
00:36:11,160 --> 00:36:15,799
Speaker 2: You just keep trying. And you know, I feel like

625
00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:20,279
Speaker 2: none of us should give up on ourselves, Like none

626
00:36:20,320 --> 00:36:25,759
Speaker 2: of us should surrender to what our own worst trauma is,

627
00:36:26,520 --> 00:36:29,520
Speaker 2: like believe in yourself, believe you deserve more than your

628
00:36:29,640 --> 00:36:32,200
Speaker 2: worst experiences. Mm hmm.

629
00:36:32,560 --> 00:36:37,480
Speaker 1: And is there something in to be said about not

630
00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:40,840
Speaker 1: not allowing yourself to label yourself a victim or to

631
00:36:41,600 --> 00:36:45,080
Speaker 1: sort of take a trauma and lead with it for

632
00:36:45,200 --> 00:36:46,880
Speaker 1: the rest of your life.

633
00:36:47,040 --> 00:36:50,960
Speaker 2: I think labels are very dangerous because I think they

634
00:36:51,040 --> 00:36:55,840
Speaker 2: do limit you and you don't see beyond that. You

635
00:36:55,880 --> 00:36:59,399
Speaker 2: just see, oh, well, this is me, like kidnaps. I'm

636
00:36:59,440 --> 00:37:04,040
Speaker 2: just nap girl, Like that's all'll ever be. And if

637
00:37:04,080 --> 00:37:08,839
Speaker 2: I truly thought that, then like I would still be

638
00:37:08,960 --> 00:37:13,520
Speaker 2: in that same mind space that I was twenty twenty

639
00:37:13,600 --> 00:37:18,760
Speaker 2: two years ago. But I'm I'm not in that mind

640
00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:25,520
Speaker 2: space anymore. And so I just like you can let

641
00:37:25,560 --> 00:37:28,680
Speaker 2: your certainly people can let their traumas define them, but

642
00:37:28,719 --> 00:37:31,640
Speaker 2: they don't have to, and it might take time to

643
00:37:31,680 --> 00:37:33,560
Speaker 2: work through them. But that doesn't mean that that's what

644
00:37:33,680 --> 00:37:35,799
Speaker 2: defines you, right.

645
00:37:36,520 --> 00:37:38,759
Speaker 1: I think it's so important for people to realize that,

646
00:37:39,200 --> 00:37:41,520
Speaker 1: but it's really hard when you're in it.

647
00:37:42,239 --> 00:37:47,439
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, remembered shortly after I got home. I remember thinking, Man,

648
00:37:47,480 --> 00:37:50,920
Speaker 2: if I died tomorrow, what would people say at my funeral?

649
00:37:51,600 --> 00:37:54,200
Speaker 2: Like they just talk about, Wow, this is such a tragedy.

650
00:37:54,280 --> 00:37:58,359
Speaker 2: She lived such a tragic life, survived abduction and kidnapping,

651
00:37:58,840 --> 00:38:01,759
Speaker 2: only to die now. And I remember just thinking that's

652
00:38:01,800 --> 00:38:03,799
Speaker 2: all anyone would talk about. And I remember thinking at

653
00:38:03,800 --> 00:38:06,279
Speaker 2: that point in time, I was like, when I eventually die,

654
00:38:06,840 --> 00:38:10,680
Speaker 2: I don't want anyone to talk about my kidnapping. I

655
00:38:10,680 --> 00:38:14,239
Speaker 2: want people to laugh or make fun of me, or

656
00:38:14,239 --> 00:38:16,960
Speaker 2: be like this was so funny when or like this

657
00:38:17,120 --> 00:38:19,640
Speaker 2: was a special memory, or I was like I don't,

658
00:38:19,840 --> 00:38:22,200
Speaker 2: like I want it to be about me, not my abduction.

659
00:38:22,880 --> 00:38:26,040
Speaker 1: Right, I mean I can I can definitely see what

660
00:38:26,080 --> 00:38:30,320
Speaker 1: you're saying, because inevitably someone in the press or someone's

661
00:38:30,360 --> 00:38:33,200
Speaker 1: going to you know, you know when you do leave

662
00:38:33,239 --> 00:38:36,640
Speaker 1: this planet, that's going to be talked about, and really

663
00:38:36,640 --> 00:38:38,239
Speaker 1: you don't have any control. But what you do have

664
00:38:38,280 --> 00:38:41,760
Speaker 1: control is surrounding yourself with the people that you know

665
00:38:41,760 --> 00:38:45,040
Speaker 1: no more than that and love you deeper than that.

666
00:38:45,360 --> 00:38:48,479
Speaker 1: So that's where those connections and that support system really

667
00:38:48,520 --> 00:38:51,800
Speaker 1: comes comes in handy.

668
00:38:52,760 --> 00:38:57,120
Speaker 2: Absolutely, which is why relationships are so important, and find

669
00:38:57,320 --> 00:38:59,400
Speaker 2: the ones that build you up and love you and

670
00:38:59,440 --> 00:39:01,680
Speaker 2: support you through thick and thin.

671
00:39:03,160 --> 00:39:05,280
Speaker 1: Have you had to let go of friendships that didn't

672
00:39:06,200 --> 00:39:08,800
Speaker 1: serve you, Yes.

673
00:39:08,719 --> 00:39:10,600
Speaker 2: I mean I'd see a lot of the ones that

674
00:39:11,280 --> 00:39:17,120
Speaker 2: weren't solid faded on their own. I mean I didn't

675
00:39:17,200 --> 00:39:20,160
Speaker 2: necessarily have to go through and be like, hey, you're out,

676
00:39:20,360 --> 00:39:24,160
Speaker 2: You're out. You didn't. I feel like a lot of

677
00:39:24,200 --> 00:39:28,040
Speaker 2: them just kind of died on their own. There have

678
00:39:28,239 --> 00:39:33,759
Speaker 2: been some that have been more more difficult, because you know,

679
00:39:34,960 --> 00:39:39,120
Speaker 2: like sometimes you can really love a person and feel

680
00:39:39,120 --> 00:39:41,120
Speaker 2: like you do anything in the world for them, and

681
00:39:41,160 --> 00:39:44,319
Speaker 2: then you just realize that feeling is not reciprocated and

682
00:39:45,160 --> 00:39:48,719
Speaker 2: you're pouring love and energy into a relationship that is

683
00:39:48,800 --> 00:39:53,040
Speaker 2: not pouring love and energy back into you, and that

684
00:39:53,080 --> 00:39:54,200
Speaker 2: could be really hard.

685
00:39:54,000 --> 00:39:59,279
Speaker 1: To Absolutely, I want to know more about this in

686
00:39:59,320 --> 00:40:05,279
Speaker 1: your book you you call them rest stops. So these

687
00:40:05,320 --> 00:40:08,719
Speaker 1: are just your techniques, your tips that have worked for

688
00:40:08,800 --> 00:40:13,520
Speaker 1: you in order to heal and move forward in your life.

689
00:40:14,719 --> 00:40:16,880
Speaker 1: I can just name a few, and you can expand

690
00:40:16,920 --> 00:40:21,279
Speaker 1: on them, allowing yourself to grieve the lost path and

691
00:40:21,320 --> 00:40:27,160
Speaker 1: the destinations that disappeared with it. Why is that important.

692
00:40:27,760 --> 00:40:30,160
Speaker 2: Because kind of going back a little bit to what

693
00:40:30,239 --> 00:40:32,440
Speaker 2: I was saying earlier, I mean, you do have this

694
00:40:32,600 --> 00:40:36,200
Speaker 2: vision of how your life is going to go, and

695
00:40:36,280 --> 00:40:41,719
Speaker 2: when that vision is disrupted, it can be heartbreaking. It

696
00:40:41,719 --> 00:40:45,480
Speaker 2: can be devastating. You know, like you thought you were

697
00:40:45,480 --> 00:40:47,160
Speaker 2: going to marry this man, You thought he was the

698
00:40:47,200 --> 00:40:49,359
Speaker 2: love of your life, and then he dies in a

699
00:40:49,360 --> 00:40:53,160
Speaker 2: car accident. And I mean, not only are you grieving

700
00:40:53,200 --> 00:40:56,560
Speaker 2: the loss of someone you love, but also the life

701
00:40:56,600 --> 00:41:00,680
Speaker 2: that you envisioned for yourself, like having a found together,

702
00:41:00,840 --> 00:41:04,760
Speaker 2: going on vacations together, growing old together, and you're grieving

703
00:41:04,800 --> 00:41:09,960
Speaker 2: that loss as well. So it's like I would, honestly,

704
00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:14,920
Speaker 2: I encourage you to not be shy about being sad

705
00:41:15,239 --> 00:41:19,560
Speaker 2: or angry or hurt when your life changes its path.

706
00:41:19,600 --> 00:41:22,680
Speaker 2: It's okay. It's okay to feel those emotions and it's

707
00:41:22,680 --> 00:41:26,239
Speaker 2: okay to sit in that pain for for as long

708
00:41:26,280 --> 00:41:26,839
Speaker 2: as you need.

709
00:41:28,320 --> 00:41:33,359
Speaker 1: You say, avoid the trap of comparison. I agree one

710
00:41:33,400 --> 00:41:36,359
Speaker 1: hundred percent. It's a trap. Have you avoid it?

711
00:41:37,640 --> 00:41:41,400
Speaker 2: Like just recognizing we are all different? I know we

712
00:41:41,480 --> 00:41:43,080
Speaker 2: say it all the time. I hear it. I feel

713
00:41:43,080 --> 00:41:45,359
Speaker 2: like you hear people be like, we're all like snowflakes,

714
00:41:45,400 --> 00:41:47,880
Speaker 2: you know, like every snowflake is different, or you're like

715
00:41:47,920 --> 00:41:53,440
Speaker 2: your fingerprint, everyone's different, or dental records, whatever, like everyone

716
00:41:53,640 --> 00:41:57,640
Speaker 2: is different. But actually truly believing that because we're all different,

717
00:41:57,640 --> 00:42:00,640
Speaker 2: I mean, someone else could be kidnapp in just the

718
00:42:00,680 --> 00:42:03,839
Speaker 2: same manner as I was, go through the exact same

719
00:42:03,880 --> 00:42:06,720
Speaker 2: things with the exact same monsters, but we would still

720
00:42:06,840 --> 00:42:11,799
Speaker 2: have different stories because we're individual, we're different people Like

721
00:42:11,880 --> 00:42:14,640
Speaker 2: whoever was the other person who went through that? They're

722
00:42:14,680 --> 00:42:18,120
Speaker 2: not me and I'm not them, so we'd be different.

723
00:42:18,200 --> 00:42:21,520
Speaker 2: And I feel like, too far, too often have people

724
00:42:21,600 --> 00:42:24,120
Speaker 2: say like, oh, I went through something similar, but nothing

725
00:42:24,200 --> 00:42:25,960
Speaker 2: in comparison, And I want to be like, well, there

726
00:42:26,000 --> 00:42:31,960
Speaker 2: are no comparisons. There's no way to accurately compare what

727
00:42:32,239 --> 00:42:35,640
Speaker 2: one person went through versus another person. Because we're all different.

728
00:42:35,800 --> 00:42:39,040
Speaker 2: We all have our own unique set of skills that

729
00:42:39,120 --> 00:42:41,520
Speaker 2: you just can't compare to anyone else's.

730
00:42:42,000 --> 00:42:45,239
Speaker 1: H Absolutely, I think sometimes we forget I know I do.

731
00:42:45,320 --> 00:42:49,720
Speaker 1: I forget that even like in my relationship with my husband,

732
00:42:49,800 --> 00:42:53,319
Speaker 1: I forget that he's a different set of eyeballs, he

733
00:42:53,400 --> 00:42:57,600
Speaker 1: has a different complete, different take on any given situation,

734
00:42:58,320 --> 00:43:01,360
Speaker 1: or even what something looks like for him is completely

735
00:43:01,440 --> 00:43:05,480
Speaker 1: different or maybe completely different than what it looks like

736
00:43:05,480 --> 00:43:08,279
Speaker 1: for me. And I think in the world, we kind

737
00:43:08,280 --> 00:43:12,239
Speaker 1: of walk around thinking everybody is sees the way you

738
00:43:12,280 --> 00:43:15,239
Speaker 1: do or thinks the way you do, but so not

739
00:43:15,360 --> 00:43:15,840
Speaker 1: the truth.

740
00:43:16,760 --> 00:43:20,680
Speaker 2: It really it really isn't I mean, yeah, we are

741
00:43:20,719 --> 00:43:24,640
Speaker 2: all just so different. And even like another another silly example,

742
00:43:24,719 --> 00:43:29,399
Speaker 2: I have this friend who she like if she had

743
00:43:29,440 --> 00:43:33,000
Speaker 2: pursued sports when she was younger, like, I have no

744
00:43:33,120 --> 00:43:35,480
Speaker 2: idea how far she would have gone, but I invited

745
00:43:35,520 --> 00:43:38,319
Speaker 2: her to come train with me for a marathon. I

746
00:43:38,440 --> 00:43:41,680
Speaker 2: convinced her to run a marathon with me, And I'd say,

747
00:43:41,719 --> 00:43:45,480
Speaker 2: I'm actually a pretty disciplined person, Like if it's something

748
00:43:45,520 --> 00:43:47,239
Speaker 2: I care about and want to do well, and like

749
00:43:47,280 --> 00:43:49,200
Speaker 2: I can show up, I can do the work as

750
00:43:49,239 --> 00:43:53,000
Speaker 2: I can do the runs, and like I like followed

751
00:43:53,440 --> 00:43:57,080
Speaker 2: the plan. I mean, like she was good, but I

752
00:43:57,160 --> 00:44:00,839
Speaker 2: know that I followed it more than she. And then

753
00:44:01,000 --> 00:44:03,239
Speaker 2: race day came and I was like, yes, I'm gonna

754
00:44:03,280 --> 00:44:06,520
Speaker 2: do so well. She blew me out of the water.

755
00:44:06,840 --> 00:44:09,879
Speaker 2: Really oh, she destroyed me. And I was just like,

756
00:44:10,560 --> 00:44:14,840
Speaker 2: but I traded so hard. But that was like me,

757
00:44:15,040 --> 00:44:18,160
Speaker 2: just like, what is she doing that I'm not doing? Like,

758
00:44:19,160 --> 00:44:23,080
Speaker 2: but that's just because we're different people, Like, we're just different.

759
00:44:23,600 --> 00:44:25,360
Speaker 1: It just seems like such a waste of time to

760
00:44:25,400 --> 00:44:26,760
Speaker 1: compare yourself, right.

761
00:44:28,239 --> 00:44:28,759
Speaker 2: Exactly.

762
00:44:28,960 --> 00:44:36,360
Speaker 1: Yes, you say, resist the urge to isolate, pursue connection fearlessly.

763
00:44:37,160 --> 00:44:39,480
Speaker 1: Sometimes that can be easier said than done.

764
00:44:40,400 --> 00:44:46,000
Speaker 2: I agree, I'm probably a naturally more reserved person.

765
00:44:46,280 --> 00:44:49,520
Speaker 1: Would you say you're an introvert. Yes, yeah, I'd.

766
00:44:49,280 --> 00:44:52,239
Speaker 2: Say I'm a functioning introvert. Like right, small talk I

767
00:44:52,320 --> 00:44:55,080
Speaker 2: can and then if you have to at the end

768
00:44:55,080 --> 00:44:58,200
Speaker 2: of the night, I'm like, oh, I'm so tired, nobody

769
00:44:58,239 --> 00:45:01,799
Speaker 2: else talk to me. I'm done, right, this is it.

770
00:45:01,880 --> 00:45:05,720
Speaker 1: I need to go recharge. Yeah, that happens to me too.

771
00:45:06,000 --> 00:45:08,880
Speaker 2: But I mean finding I think I think the difference

772
00:45:09,000 --> 00:45:13,480
Speaker 2: is finding the people that you don't feel exhausted after

773
00:45:13,600 --> 00:45:17,040
Speaker 2: being with finding the people that recharge you, that you

774
00:45:18,160 --> 00:45:21,520
Speaker 2: enjoy being around. So maybe it's not having you know,

775
00:45:21,600 --> 00:45:24,839
Speaker 2: a hundred friends, maybe it's just having one or two.

776
00:45:25,680 --> 00:45:29,920
Speaker 2: But by being around them, you don't feel like you're

777
00:45:30,520 --> 00:45:34,839
Speaker 2: being drained. You feel like you are receiving instead of

778
00:45:34,880 --> 00:45:35,360
Speaker 2: just giving.

779
00:45:36,280 --> 00:45:41,280
Speaker 1: Yes, you also say, when it comes to dreams, set goals,

780
00:45:42,320 --> 00:45:43,919
Speaker 1: not deadlines.

781
00:45:44,960 --> 00:45:51,160
Speaker 2: Yes, I fall prey to both. Like just honestly, I

782
00:45:51,200 --> 00:45:53,840
Speaker 2: do fall prey to both. I'll be like, by this day,

783
00:45:54,440 --> 00:45:57,000
Speaker 2: I am going to have all of this done, or

784
00:45:57,080 --> 00:46:01,560
Speaker 2: like even in this book by you know, in six months,

785
00:46:01,880 --> 00:46:06,040
Speaker 2: the first draft is going to be done. Right does

786
00:46:06,040 --> 00:46:09,920
Speaker 2: that ever happen? No, No it doesn't. But just setting

787
00:46:09,920 --> 00:46:12,400
Speaker 2: the goal to like write the book. You know, this

788
00:46:12,480 --> 00:46:15,520
Speaker 2: process has gone on for I want to say, over

789
00:46:15,680 --> 00:46:17,520
Speaker 2: a year and a half. Maybe we're closing it on

790
00:46:17,560 --> 00:46:20,319
Speaker 2: two years now. I need to I need to go

791
00:46:20,360 --> 00:46:24,239
Speaker 2: back and rethink it all. You know, like it here,

792
00:46:24,280 --> 00:46:25,600
Speaker 2: I am.

793
00:46:25,040 --> 00:46:27,920
Speaker 1: Like here, it is, this is where I am right here,

794
00:46:28,000 --> 00:46:28,359
Speaker 1: I am.

795
00:46:28,560 --> 00:46:31,680
Speaker 2: I mean, I think you know, deadlines can be helpful,

796
00:46:32,760 --> 00:46:35,000
Speaker 2: they can move us, but I also think they can

797
00:46:35,040 --> 00:46:38,840
Speaker 2: be very very detrimental because then you're like, I didn't

798
00:46:38,880 --> 00:46:41,000
Speaker 2: make it. I didn't do it. This was all for naught.

799
00:46:41,280 --> 00:46:45,200
Speaker 2: I'm a failure, right, And then you just go back

800
00:46:45,239 --> 00:46:46,719
Speaker 2: down into that negative spiral.

801
00:46:47,960 --> 00:46:52,640
Speaker 1: So I know you're a huge family person, so committed

802
00:46:52,680 --> 00:46:56,279
Speaker 1: to your family, and so they've just been such a

803
00:46:56,280 --> 00:46:59,279
Speaker 1: great support to you. Now that your parents have divorced

804
00:46:59,400 --> 00:47:01,920
Speaker 1: and you made a huge I choose me moment when

805
00:47:01,920 --> 00:47:07,680
Speaker 1: he came out, how has that affected your family dynamics?

806
00:47:08,160 --> 00:47:12,160
Speaker 2: I feel so heartbroken for both my parents. You know,

807
00:47:12,280 --> 00:47:16,279
Speaker 2: my mom was in a marriage for thirty years. She

808
00:47:16,360 --> 00:47:18,320
Speaker 2: thought they were going to be together their whole lives,

809
00:47:18,400 --> 00:47:22,520
Speaker 2: like they had built a life together, and then for

810
00:47:22,640 --> 00:47:29,600
Speaker 2: my dad to come out, like I can't imagine how

811
00:47:31,120 --> 00:47:35,000
Speaker 2: heartbreaking and difficult that would be for my mom to

812
00:47:35,080 --> 00:47:38,160
Speaker 2: feel like her life and everything she'd work for had

813
00:47:38,160 --> 00:47:40,920
Speaker 2: all of a sudden just this partnership had just crumbled

814
00:47:40,920 --> 00:47:45,680
Speaker 2: and disappeared. And on the other hand, I mean, feeling

815
00:47:45,719 --> 00:47:49,080
Speaker 2: like you're not living like my dad, and feeling like

816
00:47:49,120 --> 00:47:53,840
Speaker 2: you're not living who you really are, and like keeping

817
00:47:54,640 --> 00:48:01,719
Speaker 2: a massive secret that you feel like identifies you to

818
00:48:01,760 --> 00:48:06,200
Speaker 2: a degree, Like how impossible a situation is that? Because

819
00:48:06,200 --> 00:48:09,480
Speaker 2: I mean I had neither me nor any of my

820
00:48:09,600 --> 00:48:14,799
Speaker 2: brothers or my sister had any clue ever ever thought

821
00:48:14,840 --> 00:48:16,759
Speaker 2: my dad was gay. I mean, none of us. That

822
00:48:16,960 --> 00:48:18,880
Speaker 2: was never even a thought that went through our heads.

823
00:48:18,920 --> 00:48:24,360
Speaker 2: So it was a pretty big shock to all of

824
00:48:24,440 --> 00:48:30,040
Speaker 2: us when that happened. And you know, there's been there's

825
00:48:30,080 --> 00:48:36,319
Speaker 2: been good things, like really forcing me to build a

826
00:48:36,520 --> 00:48:40,520
Speaker 2: relationship with my dad separate than the one to my mom.

827
00:48:40,680 --> 00:48:44,439
Speaker 2: But again, like there's sad things, you know, like birthdays

828
00:48:44,440 --> 00:48:48,160
Speaker 2: and holidays where you know it's like, oh, oh we

829
00:48:48,160 --> 00:48:50,239
Speaker 2: had mom at the last one, kids dad's turn or

830
00:48:50,600 --> 00:48:54,319
Speaker 2: you know my mom. You know, I just it's it's

831
00:48:54,360 --> 00:48:55,120
Speaker 2: more difficult.

832
00:48:55,320 --> 00:49:00,160
Speaker 1: It's definitely more difficult. Yeah, I know, having been through

833
00:49:00,200 --> 00:49:03,040
Speaker 1: a divorce and having kids and now having to share them,

834
00:49:03,080 --> 00:49:06,479
Speaker 1: and it's so much more of a burden on them,

835
00:49:07,120 --> 00:49:11,560
Speaker 1: I think emotionally than it is even on me or

836
00:49:11,600 --> 00:49:15,239
Speaker 1: their dad, because you know, we've moved on in our life,

837
00:49:15,280 --> 00:49:19,120
Speaker 1: but your childhood, the core of who you are. When

838
00:49:19,160 --> 00:49:23,000
Speaker 1: that gets shaken and turned upside down, you have to

839
00:49:23,200 --> 00:49:26,480
Speaker 1: sort of forge a new way. And you know, in

840
00:49:26,520 --> 00:49:28,600
Speaker 1: my case, I'm just so grateful that my daughters have

841
00:49:28,680 --> 00:49:34,400
Speaker 1: one another. So when they're struggling or being challenged with

842
00:49:34,440 --> 00:49:36,040
Speaker 1: that kind of stuff, and I'm sure you rely on

843
00:49:36,080 --> 00:49:38,439
Speaker 1: your brothers and sisters a lot for that too.

844
00:49:39,360 --> 00:49:41,680
Speaker 2: I mean, we definitely. I feel like I was always

845
00:49:42,160 --> 00:49:45,319
Speaker 2: pretty close with a lot of my siblings. I mean

846
00:49:45,360 --> 00:49:47,480
Speaker 2: I feel like we were all pretty close always. But

847
00:49:47,600 --> 00:49:53,239
Speaker 2: it's definitely brought us in many ways closer. Just being like, hey,

848
00:49:53,400 --> 00:49:55,759
Speaker 2: did you feel this way? Or like I thought this,

849
00:49:56,000 --> 00:49:59,640
Speaker 2: or like am I crazy? Or yeah, I mean how

850
00:50:00,120 --> 00:50:03,919
Speaker 2: has helped us become closer as well.

851
00:50:05,080 --> 00:50:07,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, well that's one of the good things that's come

852
00:50:07,600 --> 00:50:11,480
Speaker 1: from it, for sure. Way to see the positive, Yeah

853
00:50:11,880 --> 00:50:12,440
Speaker 1: like that.

854
00:50:12,960 --> 00:50:16,160
Speaker 2: I mean I'm not always like super positive. Sometimes I'm like,

855
00:50:16,200 --> 00:50:18,360
Speaker 2: I hate this. I wish they'd never gotten divorced. I

856
00:50:18,400 --> 00:50:20,520
Speaker 2: mean I don't want them to be unhappy. I would

857
00:50:20,520 --> 00:50:22,360
Speaker 2: never want either of them to be unhappy. I of

858
00:50:22,440 --> 00:50:24,920
Speaker 2: course I always want them to be happy, But selfishly,

859
00:50:24,960 --> 00:50:26,960
Speaker 2: there's a part of me that's like, this would just

860
00:50:27,040 --> 00:50:32,360
Speaker 2: be easier if you had never gotten divorced. Yeah, it

861
00:50:32,360 --> 00:50:34,400
Speaker 2: would have been easier for me. It wouldn't have been

862
00:50:34,440 --> 00:50:35,239
Speaker 2: easier for them.

863
00:50:35,360 --> 00:50:39,279
Speaker 1: So yeah, I think that sometimes we forget that how

864
00:50:41,040 --> 00:50:44,960
Speaker 1: difficult it is on the kids divorce, But.

865
00:50:45,640 --> 00:50:49,880
Speaker 2: I mean it is, It's happened, and now you know

866
00:50:49,920 --> 00:50:55,000
Speaker 2: what to move forward as best we can figure out.

867
00:50:55,600 --> 00:50:59,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, gratitude, forgiveness, hope, all those things are so important.

868
00:50:59,440 --> 00:51:02,920
Speaker 1: Before I let you go, Elizabeth Smart, what was your

869
00:51:03,000 --> 00:51:05,400
Speaker 1: last I Choose me moment?

870
00:51:06,680 --> 00:51:11,520
Speaker 2: Probably this morning when I should have probably done the dishes,

871
00:51:11,640 --> 00:51:14,040
Speaker 2: but I decided to work out instead. And the dishes

872
00:51:14,040 --> 00:51:15,280
Speaker 2: are still upstairs in the sink.

873
00:51:15,320 --> 00:51:17,240
Speaker 1: Now they can wait.

874
00:51:19,600 --> 00:51:21,000
Speaker 2: That's what I told myself.

875
00:51:22,080 --> 00:51:26,040
Speaker 1: Yeah. Good, that's just a simple, like everyday way stuff.

876
00:51:26,080 --> 00:51:27,719
Speaker 1: That is, it's not the end of the world that

877
00:51:27,760 --> 00:51:29,960
Speaker 1: the dishes aren't done. What's more important is your health

878
00:51:30,080 --> 00:51:30,800
Speaker 1: and your sanity.

879
00:51:31,680 --> 00:51:33,759
Speaker 2: Yes, my sanity. I would focus on that.

880
00:51:34,320 --> 00:51:39,600
Speaker 1: Yes, okay. Well, Elizabeth's book Detours Hope and Growth after

881
00:51:39,719 --> 00:51:43,880
Speaker 1: Life's Hardest Turns is available now. You guys, thank you

882
00:51:43,960 --> 00:51:48,280
Speaker 1: so much for joining me, Elizabeth, your story, your perseverance

883
00:51:48,440 --> 00:51:49,960
Speaker 1: is going to help so many people.

884
00:51:50,640 --> 00:51:53,000
Speaker 2: Thank you, Jenny. It was such a pleasure coming on

885
00:51:53,040 --> 00:51:54,279
Speaker 2: and chatting with you. Thank you.

886
00:51:54,560 --> 00:51:56,880
Speaker 1: I loved it. It's really nice to meet you, and

887
00:51:57,239 --> 00:51:58,239
Speaker 1: you are an inspiration.

888
00:51:58,800 --> 00:52:00,000
Speaker 2: It's very nice to meet you.

889
00:52:00,040 --> 00:52:00,520
Speaker 1: To thank you