1
00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:03,640
Speaker 1: Continuing our playlist celebrating the release of the government's U

2
00:00:03,840 --> 00:00:08,119
Speaker 1: A P Report. Uh. We wanted to share this episode

3
00:00:08,400 --> 00:00:11,719
Speaker 1: with you, fellow conspiracy realist. One of the big things

4
00:00:11,840 --> 00:00:15,560
Speaker 1: about UFOs, one of the big subjects of debate, is

5
00:00:15,640 --> 00:00:20,360
Speaker 1: whether anyone has actually found a physical craft, right, not

6
00:00:20,480 --> 00:00:22,840
Speaker 1: just some lights in the sky, not just some shapes

7
00:00:22,920 --> 00:00:26,520
Speaker 1: that appear to defy the laws of physics. Are their

8
00:00:26,560 --> 00:00:29,040
Speaker 1: real lifeline saucers? One of the big, you know, one

9
00:00:29,040 --> 00:00:32,560
Speaker 1: of the big theories that surfaces cyclically, is that what

10
00:00:32,600 --> 00:00:35,839
Speaker 1: we call UFOs, or what some people you know, perceived

11
00:00:35,840 --> 00:00:40,519
Speaker 1: to be UFOs, are in fact man made pieces of technology.

12
00:00:40,680 --> 00:00:44,880
Speaker 1: So we asked ourselves a while back, you know, has

13
00:00:44,920 --> 00:00:49,240
Speaker 1: anybody built a real lifeline saucer? And I think we

14
00:00:49,320 --> 00:00:53,600
Speaker 1: found one. Let's dive in from UFOs to psychic powers

15
00:00:53,640 --> 00:00:58,320
Speaker 1: and government conspiracies. History is riddled with unexplained events. You

16
00:00:58,400 --> 00:01:01,640
Speaker 1: can turn back now or learned this stuff they don't

17
00:01:01,640 --> 00:01:05,280
Speaker 1: want you to know. A production of I Heart Gradios

18
00:01:05,480 --> 00:01:17,280
Speaker 1: How Stuff Works. Welcome back to the show. My name

19
00:01:17,319 --> 00:01:19,559
Speaker 1: is Matt, my name is not They called me Ben.

20
00:01:19,600 --> 00:01:22,240
Speaker 1: We are joined as always with our super producer Paul

21
00:01:22,360 --> 00:01:26,319
Speaker 1: Mission Controlled Decade most importantly, you are you. You are here,

22
00:01:26,600 --> 00:01:29,760
Speaker 1: and that makes this stuff. They don't want you to know.

23
00:01:30,360 --> 00:01:32,319
Speaker 1: We've been doing a lot of shows recently with a

24
00:01:32,520 --> 00:01:34,720
Speaker 1: check in at the beginning to make sure we're all

25
00:01:34,760 --> 00:01:37,640
Speaker 1: in a cool or at least tolerable place given the

26
00:01:37,680 --> 00:01:40,679
Speaker 1: heat outside. So, Matt, how's it. How's it going? It's

27
00:01:40,720 --> 00:01:43,720
Speaker 1: going really well. We're coming right off of Father's Day.

28
00:01:43,760 --> 00:01:46,800
Speaker 1: I got to spend some time with my son yesterday.

29
00:01:46,800 --> 00:01:49,640
Speaker 1: In fact, it was wonderful. We went to a waterfall

30
00:01:49,720 --> 00:01:53,880
Speaker 1: that's nearby. It's just it was awesome. Uh. And and

31
00:01:53,880 --> 00:01:56,240
Speaker 1: the happy Father's Day to both of you. Belated thank

32
00:01:56,240 --> 00:01:58,800
Speaker 1: you sir. Sure, uh no, how about you. It's good.

33
00:01:58,800 --> 00:02:00,640
Speaker 1: I went and visited my mom and she made me

34
00:02:00,680 --> 00:02:04,600
Speaker 1: a Father's Day dinner Lego lamb, which it is, and

35
00:02:05,120 --> 00:02:07,440
Speaker 1: a little bit of what do we have on the side, Oh,

36
00:02:07,600 --> 00:02:10,720
Speaker 1: some stuffed mushrooms also a favorite. And then I got

37
00:02:10,800 --> 00:02:13,360
Speaker 1: to take my kid to Actually I went and got

38
00:02:13,400 --> 00:02:16,440
Speaker 1: a manicure and a pedicure, and then I got up

39
00:02:16,440 --> 00:02:20,959
Speaker 1: sold into getting my eyebrows waxed. It's kind of a

40
00:02:20,960 --> 00:02:23,600
Speaker 1: bummer because the pedicure feels so good, and then the

41
00:02:23,960 --> 00:02:27,079
Speaker 1: eyebrow waxing really hurts, so I sort of negated the

42
00:02:27,400 --> 00:02:30,200
Speaker 1: good feels of the pedicure. You know, honest, I have

43
00:02:30,320 --> 00:02:32,919
Speaker 1: this thing with my feet and if anyone ever tried

44
00:02:32,960 --> 00:02:35,680
Speaker 1: to do anything to my feet like that, liked, dude,

45
00:02:35,720 --> 00:02:38,480
Speaker 1: I would uh kick them in the face. I would attack.

46
00:02:38,840 --> 00:02:40,480
Speaker 1: I would have to. There's apart where they take this

47
00:02:40,560 --> 00:02:42,520
Speaker 1: cheese greater thing and just like rub it in the

48
00:02:42,560 --> 00:02:45,040
Speaker 1: middles of your feet, and I have to bite my

49
00:02:45,080 --> 00:02:48,400
Speaker 1: lip really hard to keep from like losing it. God.

50
00:02:48,760 --> 00:02:52,280
Speaker 1: So we also in an update behind the curtain here,

51
00:02:52,360 --> 00:02:55,600
Speaker 1: we'd like to welcome one of our newest producers to

52
00:02:55,639 --> 00:02:58,880
Speaker 1: the universe of this show, Maya Cole. Thanks for coming

53
00:02:59,000 --> 00:03:02,280
Speaker 1: listening in and got gotta woo there that you can't

54
00:03:02,320 --> 00:03:05,040
Speaker 1: hear outside of the studio. Let's also check in with

55
00:03:05,160 --> 00:03:09,760
Speaker 1: mission control. How you doing, man, thumbs up, thumbs down? Okay,

56
00:03:09,840 --> 00:03:11,840
Speaker 1: I thought it was a sidewayst it was. For a second.

57
00:03:11,840 --> 00:03:14,800
Speaker 1: It was middling too good. We're gonna call that, how

58
00:03:14,800 --> 00:03:17,840
Speaker 1: about you? Mr Ben Bolen, Thanks for asking man, so

59
00:03:18,000 --> 00:03:21,679
Speaker 1: we all not kidding. Uh, Yeah, things are happening. You know.

60
00:03:22,160 --> 00:03:24,200
Speaker 1: I've been traveling some more and probably have some more

61
00:03:24,240 --> 00:03:26,400
Speaker 1: travel in the future. And I've been out of this

62
00:03:26,400 --> 00:03:32,440
Speaker 1: this particular realm uh, this particular astral plane really just

63
00:03:32,480 --> 00:03:34,080
Speaker 1: gonna give me the demon laugh and move on. By

64
00:03:34,080 --> 00:03:37,600
Speaker 1: the way, did you did you listen to the recent

65
00:03:37,880 --> 00:03:44,640
Speaker 1: voicemail episode? Did I? Yeah? Okay, all right, well then

66
00:03:44,880 --> 00:03:47,640
Speaker 1: you guys, he hasn't heard the Oh that's okay, don't

67
00:03:47,640 --> 00:03:49,960
Speaker 1: worry about it. Check its fine, it's fine. I should

68
00:03:50,000 --> 00:03:52,080
Speaker 1: listen to it. I should we go into a little

69
00:03:52,080 --> 00:03:55,240
Speaker 1: bit of your lore. Oh boy, any anything I need

70
00:03:55,280 --> 00:03:57,360
Speaker 1: to be aware of? You already know all. You're the

71
00:03:57,360 --> 00:04:00,040
Speaker 1: all knowing all scenes I saw on type end it.

72
00:04:00,800 --> 00:04:04,240
Speaker 1: Oh man, that's that's two. That is two kinds. I

73
00:04:04,280 --> 00:04:08,880
Speaker 1: listened to one of the voicemail episodes and not know

74
00:04:09,120 --> 00:04:12,080
Speaker 1: that you did way back and is over a year

75
00:04:12,160 --> 00:04:14,840
Speaker 1: now ago. Now, yeah, and that was really that was

76
00:04:14,880 --> 00:04:18,000
Speaker 1: really good and people really seem to enjoy it. Um,

77
00:04:18,040 --> 00:04:21,359
Speaker 1: So yeah, I'm sorry. I apologize. I'll listen to it.

78
00:04:22,360 --> 00:04:26,080
Speaker 1: Were still included. That's very good. Thank you so much.

79
00:04:27,040 --> 00:04:30,039
Speaker 1: And if you want to be included in today's show,

80
00:04:30,200 --> 00:04:33,279
Speaker 1: you do not have to wait until the show is over.

81
00:04:33,760 --> 00:04:38,359
Speaker 1: You can simply pause and call us directly with your thoughts,

82
00:04:38,480 --> 00:04:42,000
Speaker 1: your opinions, you're hot takes, as they say on the

83
00:04:42,080 --> 00:04:45,120
Speaker 1: late night shows, just keep it around three minutes or

84
00:04:45,240 --> 00:04:49,160
Speaker 1: be ready to call back and say and another thing. Yeah,

85
00:04:49,200 --> 00:04:51,440
Speaker 1: I mean a hot take should technically be like a

86
00:04:51,560 --> 00:04:53,840
Speaker 1: verbal tweet kind of thing. So three minutes should be

87
00:04:53,880 --> 00:04:56,000
Speaker 1: plenty for a hot take. Yeah, then you're getting into

88
00:04:56,080 --> 00:04:59,719
Speaker 1: rant territory Dennis Miller style. We like a good rant

89
00:04:59,720 --> 00:05:03,080
Speaker 1: as well. Sometimes you know, you get stuck just applying

90
00:05:03,120 --> 00:05:05,480
Speaker 1: Marty garrab beads to a basket and you're just like,

91
00:05:05,520 --> 00:05:06,840
Speaker 1: you know what, I need to call like three or

92
00:05:06,880 --> 00:05:11,440
Speaker 1: four more times. Just trust me, it happens. It happens.

93
00:05:11,080 --> 00:05:13,360
Speaker 1: So what's that number for anyone who wants to call.

94
00:05:13,480 --> 00:05:17,440
Speaker 1: It's one eight three three t d W y t K.

95
00:05:18,600 --> 00:05:21,920
Speaker 1: So we jumped like that on purpose. Yes, yes, we're ritualizing,

96
00:05:22,279 --> 00:05:25,920
Speaker 1: So go ahead and drop us a line. Today we

97
00:05:26,000 --> 00:05:32,640
Speaker 1: are returning to the world of unidentified flying objects. Specifically,

98
00:05:32,680 --> 00:05:36,600
Speaker 1: we're exploring the story of flying saucers, not UFOs in general,

99
00:05:36,640 --> 00:05:41,560
Speaker 1: mind you, actual flying saucers. For decades, these were some

100
00:05:41,600 --> 00:05:45,400
Speaker 1: of the most widely reported mysterious aerial phenomena in the

101
00:05:45,480 --> 00:05:49,000
Speaker 1: Western world. Even today, when you hear someone say the

102
00:05:49,000 --> 00:05:53,920
Speaker 1: word alien or extraterrestrial UFO. Most people will immediately conjure

103
00:05:54,000 --> 00:05:57,040
Speaker 1: up an image of a flying saucer, right, you know,

104
00:05:57,400 --> 00:05:59,200
Speaker 1: you got the whole nine and got the little uh,

105
00:05:59,600 --> 00:06:03,479
Speaker 1: the the nuts to pit. Yeah, you have the cockpit

106
00:06:03,520 --> 00:06:06,160
Speaker 1: at the top, maybe glass dome, and then of course

107
00:06:06,200 --> 00:06:08,920
Speaker 1: it's always shooting a tractor being down over a cow

108
00:06:08,960 --> 00:06:13,640
Speaker 1: and an abandoned field at night somewhere potentially. Yes, you

109
00:06:13,680 --> 00:06:17,240
Speaker 1: always have the Mars Attacks version in my head because

110
00:06:17,279 --> 00:06:20,520
Speaker 1: that's the classic trophy version. Like Tim Burton was obsessed

111
00:06:20,520 --> 00:06:23,200
Speaker 1: with those kind of old comic representations of that kind

112
00:06:23,240 --> 00:06:26,200
Speaker 1: of imagery, the Martians themselves with the big dome, you know,

113
00:06:26,320 --> 00:06:29,360
Speaker 1: head things and all of them. Yeah, and Mars Attacks.

114
00:06:29,360 --> 00:06:32,440
Speaker 1: I'm gonna say I still enjoy it. I do too mentally.

115
00:06:33,960 --> 00:06:37,359
Speaker 1: It's a great documentary. Right. So, but what are these

116
00:06:37,400 --> 00:06:42,599
Speaker 1: things flying saucers? They've been described as a widely misidentified

117
00:06:42,720 --> 00:06:47,680
Speaker 1: mundane phenomenon. They've been described as little more than uh

118
00:06:47,880 --> 00:06:53,560
Speaker 1: collective hysteria. Right. Uh. Our question today is are they real?

119
00:06:54,200 --> 00:06:58,239
Speaker 1: And to answer that question we have to start from

120
00:06:58,279 --> 00:07:02,240
Speaker 1: the beginning. So here are the facts. Why do we

121
00:07:02,320 --> 00:07:06,120
Speaker 1: call them flying saucers? It's not like anyone nowadays, at

122
00:07:06,200 --> 00:07:09,760
Speaker 1: least in the US or Canada, uses the phrase saucer

123
00:07:09,760 --> 00:07:13,520
Speaker 1: to describe the actual little plate upon which one would

124
00:07:13,520 --> 00:07:15,880
Speaker 1: place a cup or a mug. What would you call it?

125
00:07:16,400 --> 00:07:18,520
Speaker 1: What would I what would I call that a little plate?

126
00:07:19,600 --> 00:07:21,680
Speaker 1: I say it all the way. I really clip the tease.

127
00:07:21,760 --> 00:07:24,920
Speaker 1: I say little plate or little cup. You have very

128
00:07:24,960 --> 00:07:28,720
Speaker 1: good addiction. Then I would be interested to know if

129
00:07:28,760 --> 00:07:30,880
Speaker 1: any of our British listeners or anyone out in the

130
00:07:30,920 --> 00:07:34,360
Speaker 1: UK or around that area still uses the phrase saucer.

131
00:07:34,520 --> 00:07:36,600
Speaker 1: They definitely do. Think about a saucer of milk for

132
00:07:36,640 --> 00:07:39,320
Speaker 1: a cat. It's certainly in the in the vernacular. That's

133
00:07:39,360 --> 00:07:41,040
Speaker 1: those are the only two phrases I hear it in

134
00:07:41,080 --> 00:07:43,840
Speaker 1: the flying saucer or saucer of milk is the other one.

135
00:07:44,120 --> 00:07:46,040
Speaker 1: Cup and saucer. They just call it. It's like it's

136
00:07:46,040 --> 00:07:47,640
Speaker 1: like it's a set. They come together. It's the cup

137
00:07:47,640 --> 00:07:49,720
Speaker 1: and then the saucer. Yeah, but are people walking around

138
00:07:49,760 --> 00:07:53,320
Speaker 1: talking about it though? Well, why you don't know? You

139
00:07:53,320 --> 00:07:55,400
Speaker 1: don't pass the saucer because you're passing the cup and

140
00:07:55,400 --> 00:07:59,360
Speaker 1: it's on the saucer. But someone's like if someone's like, no,

141
00:07:59,800 --> 00:08:01,840
Speaker 1: I that's the thing no one addresses it as a

142
00:08:01,880 --> 00:08:05,080
Speaker 1: singular entity. Don't You don't hear the word saucer floating

143
00:08:05,120 --> 00:08:10,200
Speaker 1: around without being attached to a cup, an alien, or

144
00:08:10,200 --> 00:08:13,000
Speaker 1: a cat. It's basically a glorified drip pan. It's it's

145
00:08:13,040 --> 00:08:16,480
Speaker 1: made to catch the drippings from your tea. So presumably,

146
00:08:16,520 --> 00:08:18,520
Speaker 1: if you're not a total slab, you don't even need

147
00:08:18,520 --> 00:08:21,640
Speaker 1: a saucer. There you go, I give what doesn't it

148
00:08:21,680 --> 00:08:26,119
Speaker 1: depend on the temper? Okay, this is maybe a different show,

149
00:08:26,200 --> 00:08:31,560
Speaker 1: but but we call these things flying saucers because of

150
00:08:32,240 --> 00:08:38,199
Speaker 1: oddly enough skeet shooting. Yeah, back in or so ever

151
00:08:38,240 --> 00:08:41,440
Speaker 1: since then, flying saucer was used to describe one of

152
00:08:41,440 --> 00:08:44,040
Speaker 1: those clay pigeons that they shoot off and you know,

153
00:08:44,400 --> 00:08:46,280
Speaker 1: fire at and then you high five each other when

154
00:08:46,280 --> 00:08:49,440
Speaker 1: you hit one, and that resembles a saucer, a classic

155
00:08:49,520 --> 00:08:52,280
Speaker 1: UFO shape because the little device that they would either

156
00:08:52,320 --> 00:08:55,040
Speaker 1: someone would throw the manually or I think as technology advanced,

157
00:08:55,040 --> 00:08:57,480
Speaker 1: they would have little machines that would like you know,

158
00:08:57,559 --> 00:08:59,319
Speaker 1: hold them or like with a little arm and kind

159
00:08:59,360 --> 00:09:02,160
Speaker 1: of lob them. They'd go, they'd go thhoop and then

160
00:09:02,440 --> 00:09:05,200
Speaker 1: smash right. But it's because they're of a shape that

161
00:09:05,280 --> 00:09:09,199
Speaker 1: allows them to be thrown with a nice directional velocity, right, yeah,

162
00:09:09,320 --> 00:09:13,760
Speaker 1: like a frisbee. There you go. So for years and

163
00:09:13,840 --> 00:09:16,240
Speaker 1: years and years and years, this was a term that

164
00:09:16,360 --> 00:09:20,720
Speaker 1: was kind of slaying in the world of clay pigeon shooting.

165
00:09:21,360 --> 00:09:25,400
Speaker 1: But this phrase did not describe UFOs until nineteen thirty

166
00:09:25,520 --> 00:09:29,960
Speaker 1: and it didn't become popularized until nineteen forty seven. In

167
00:09:30,160 --> 00:09:35,280
Speaker 1: June seven, a guy named Kenneth Arnold had this highly

168
00:09:35,360 --> 00:09:40,120
Speaker 1: publicized UFO sighting, and it resulted in the popularization of

169
00:09:40,160 --> 00:09:43,920
Speaker 1: the term flying saucer in US newspapers and then later

170
00:09:44,320 --> 00:09:47,319
Speaker 1: uh the Anglo sphere, and then later the world overall.

171
00:09:47,760 --> 00:09:51,680
Speaker 1: So so what happened what made Kenneth Arnold go viral?

172
00:09:52,000 --> 00:09:54,400
Speaker 1: Or at least what did he see? So what Arnold

173
00:09:54,440 --> 00:09:57,320
Speaker 1: said was he claimed to have encountered flashes of light

174
00:09:57,840 --> 00:10:01,480
Speaker 1: and nine different objects lying in some sort of formation,

175
00:10:02,040 --> 00:10:05,360
Speaker 1: occasionally flipping the way you might think of the drone

176
00:10:05,880 --> 00:10:08,000
Speaker 1: behavior hovering. You know, there's those drones you can get

177
00:10:08,000 --> 00:10:10,080
Speaker 1: that will flip upside down like that or do like

178
00:10:10,120 --> 00:10:12,800
Speaker 1: a three sixty loop or whatever like that without moving

179
00:10:12,920 --> 00:10:15,200
Speaker 1: very far. So he followed them and found that they

180
00:10:15,200 --> 00:10:18,679
Speaker 1: were traveling at incredibly high speed um and consisted of

181
00:10:18,800 --> 00:10:21,280
Speaker 1: various shapes. Each of each were not they were not identical,

182
00:10:21,320 --> 00:10:24,840
Speaker 1: They're not uniform. Eventually he lost track of them, and

183
00:10:25,600 --> 00:10:29,520
Speaker 1: uh he landed sharing his experience, and word spread and

184
00:10:29,559 --> 00:10:33,040
Speaker 1: his account um to use the kind of Internet parlance,

185
00:10:33,040 --> 00:10:36,800
Speaker 1: went viral. Yeah, he was as popular for a time

186
00:10:36,880 --> 00:10:40,320
Speaker 1: as a cat meme a is today. So in uh,

187
00:10:40,360 --> 00:10:42,600
Speaker 1: in these interviews with the press, I like the point

188
00:10:42,600 --> 00:10:46,600
Speaker 1: you're raising about the shapes being varied. He described them

189
00:10:46,679 --> 00:10:49,240
Speaker 1: a couple of different ways and a couple of different interviews.

190
00:10:49,280 --> 00:10:52,320
Speaker 1: One he called a pie plate when he said, uh,

191
00:10:52,640 --> 00:10:55,680
Speaker 1: oval in the front, convex in the rear. And what

192
00:10:55,840 --> 00:11:00,320
Speaker 1: this means is that some editor has lost to history now.

193
00:11:00,559 --> 00:11:06,040
Speaker 1: And part of the reason this story gains so much

194
00:11:06,040 --> 00:11:10,520
Speaker 1: public traction is because Arnold was a pilot, you know

195
00:11:10,559 --> 00:11:14,679
Speaker 1: what I mean. He was a credible source at the time, right,

196
00:11:15,040 --> 00:11:18,520
Speaker 1: And still a pilot is more credible than someone on

197
00:11:18,559 --> 00:11:20,240
Speaker 1: the ground in a lot of ways because they have

198
00:11:20,480 --> 00:11:23,600
Speaker 1: simply more experience to imagine, Like, yeah, it's it's pretty

199
00:11:23,640 --> 00:11:27,400
Speaker 1: hard to competently pilot a plane if you're either meant

200
00:11:27,559 --> 00:11:29,960
Speaker 1: mentally unstable or under the influence of some kind of

201
00:11:30,160 --> 00:11:35,040
Speaker 1: drugs or alcohol typerature frowned upon in the piloting community. Yes, yes,

202
00:11:35,480 --> 00:11:37,480
Speaker 1: the biggest thing is just having an understanding of how

203
00:11:37,520 --> 00:11:40,920
Speaker 1: aircraft function, right, that that's the biggest thing when when

204
00:11:40,960 --> 00:11:43,240
Speaker 1: you have a pilot, say, these things were flipping around

205
00:11:43,240 --> 00:11:44,920
Speaker 1: and doing this weird thing, and they were oval shaped

206
00:11:44,920 --> 00:11:49,400
Speaker 1: and oblong. It was really strange. But then he goes

207
00:11:49,440 --> 00:11:53,920
Speaker 1: on in further interviews to like describe them even more differently,

208
00:11:54,160 --> 00:11:57,280
Speaker 1: right right, Uh, oval in the front and convex in

209
00:11:57,320 --> 00:11:59,840
Speaker 1: the rear. So they in the front, party in the back.

210
00:12:00,160 --> 00:12:03,080
Speaker 1: U in UFO parlance. Probably it really depends on whether

211
00:12:03,120 --> 00:12:06,080
Speaker 1: you're an oval or a convex guy, you know. Uh.

212
00:12:06,360 --> 00:12:09,439
Speaker 1: He described something as a pipe plate, and then later

213
00:12:09,600 --> 00:12:14,200
Speaker 1: his story changes again. He describes one of the objects

214
00:12:14,280 --> 00:12:18,480
Speaker 1: as a crescent or flying wing, some as a big

215
00:12:18,520 --> 00:12:22,400
Speaker 1: flat disc, some as simply saucer like. And that's where

216
00:12:22,440 --> 00:12:27,559
Speaker 1: we hit on the etymology here, because while Arnold is

217
00:12:27,600 --> 00:12:32,040
Speaker 1: associated with this term, it was probably some editor lost

218
00:12:32,080 --> 00:12:37,200
Speaker 1: to history who's responsible for calling it a flying saucer.

219
00:12:37,400 --> 00:12:39,280
Speaker 1: And for a little while there was kind of a

220
00:12:39,280 --> 00:12:43,599
Speaker 1: pepsi coke thing going on with flying disc versus flying saucer.

221
00:12:43,800 --> 00:12:47,840
Speaker 1: But flying saucer clearly one out and we still use

222
00:12:47,920 --> 00:12:53,600
Speaker 1: the phrase today sort of yeah, a little bit, but

223
00:12:53,640 --> 00:12:55,880
Speaker 1: the phrase has kind of gone away or Belie's been

224
00:12:55,880 --> 00:12:59,280
Speaker 1: supplanted quite a bit by this. Uh, we're gonna call

225
00:12:59,320 --> 00:13:02,360
Speaker 1: it a governor meant created term, because that's what it is.

226
00:13:03,040 --> 00:13:07,520
Speaker 1: Unidentified flying object or UFO or UFO is I like

227
00:13:07,600 --> 00:13:10,120
Speaker 1: to say, and no one else does, yes, and getting

228
00:13:10,679 --> 00:13:15,760
Speaker 1: these these aren't aliens necessarily, not extraterrestrials. They're just something

229
00:13:15,800 --> 00:13:18,480
Speaker 1: in the sky that people cannot identify. Look up in

230
00:13:18,559 --> 00:13:21,400
Speaker 1: the sky. It's a bird, it's a plate, it's Superman,

231
00:13:21,720 --> 00:13:25,679
Speaker 1: it's a weather blue. I don't know. I guess it's unidentified. Well,

232
00:13:25,720 --> 00:13:28,600
Speaker 1: and we're gonna we're gonna continue to use the term

233
00:13:28,720 --> 00:13:31,920
Speaker 1: UFO here in this episode, but it should be noted,

234
00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:34,920
Speaker 1: as we noted not that long ago in an episode,

235
00:13:35,160 --> 00:13:37,640
Speaker 1: the military has now changed to that as they like

236
00:13:37,760 --> 00:13:43,440
Speaker 1: to change all their phrasing over time to unidentified aerial vehicle. Yes, yes, yes,

237
00:13:43,960 --> 00:13:46,520
Speaker 1: U a V. I mean it's also sort of like

238
00:13:46,600 --> 00:13:49,040
Speaker 1: that they might call something like that if something comes

239
00:13:49,080 --> 00:13:51,600
Speaker 1: up on radar they called a bogey or whatever. But

240
00:13:51,920 --> 00:13:53,640
Speaker 1: that's sort of if it's something they don't know the

241
00:13:53,679 --> 00:13:56,480
Speaker 1: origin of. They can't have eyes on it directly. Then

242
00:13:56,520 --> 00:13:59,640
Speaker 1: that could be considered one of these as well, an

243
00:13:59,640 --> 00:14:02,800
Speaker 1: identify fight aerial vehicle. That's the problem with the acronym though,

244
00:14:02,800 --> 00:14:04,679
Speaker 1: there must be some of the initialism. There must be

245
00:14:04,720 --> 00:14:09,000
Speaker 1: something missing, because unmanned areal vehicle is also U A B. Yeah,

246
00:14:09,040 --> 00:14:11,320
Speaker 1: there you go, or maybe I'm incorrect. I know it's

247
00:14:11,320 --> 00:14:15,800
Speaker 1: something similar to that, but yeah, I mean Uncle Sam.

248
00:14:16,040 --> 00:14:22,200
Speaker 1: Governments in general big fans of abbreviations and initialisms. Today,

249
00:14:22,280 --> 00:14:25,440
Speaker 1: flying saucers not just the phrase, the thing has become

250
00:14:25,480 --> 00:14:29,720
Speaker 1: this genre of overall UFO sightings. And when you look

251
00:14:29,760 --> 00:14:33,640
Speaker 1: at the world of fiction, flying saucers still by far

252
00:14:33,760 --> 00:14:36,320
Speaker 1: they're running the game. You know. The problem is they're

253
00:14:36,360 --> 00:14:40,160
Speaker 1: they're not represented in a serious way. Mars Attacks spoiler

254
00:14:40,200 --> 00:14:45,000
Speaker 1: alert is not, in fact a documentary. You can see

255
00:14:45,000 --> 00:14:48,880
Speaker 1: them in things like sci fi series like The X Files, right,

256
00:14:48,960 --> 00:14:53,120
Speaker 1: they'll use the flying saucer appearance. You'll you'll see it

257
00:14:53,160 --> 00:14:57,600
Speaker 1: depicted in a ton of nineteen fifties nineteen sixties fiction.

258
00:14:58,120 --> 00:15:01,760
Speaker 1: You know, we're talking Outer Limits, Twilight Zone and so on.

259
00:15:02,040 --> 00:15:06,280
Speaker 1: But what if there's more to the story. Is there

260
00:15:06,320 --> 00:15:10,920
Speaker 1: any truth to tales of actual flying saucers, Not clouds

261
00:15:10,960 --> 00:15:13,680
Speaker 1: that look like saucers, mind you, not weird tricks of

262
00:15:13,720 --> 00:15:18,160
Speaker 1: the light, no atmospheric high jinks or strange eye hoo

263
00:15:18,240 --> 00:15:24,560
Speaker 1: spheric interference, a real genuine flying saucer. The answer is yes,

264
00:15:25,360 --> 00:15:30,880
Speaker 1: there were real flying saucers and we built them. Don't

265
00:15:30,880 --> 00:15:33,920
Speaker 1: toy with my emotions, Ben, It's true. And we're going

266
00:15:33,960 --> 00:15:37,320
Speaker 1: to talk about the ones that at least um we

267
00:15:37,440 --> 00:15:47,280
Speaker 1: tried to contract out after award from our sponsor. Here's

268
00:15:47,360 --> 00:15:53,200
Speaker 1: where it gets crazy. Enter Projects seventeen four. Uh and

269
00:15:53,440 --> 00:15:58,600
Speaker 1: related to this, the Avro Canada VZ nine Avro car. Yes,

270
00:15:58,680 --> 00:16:00,520
Speaker 1: let's talk about And before we get to that, I

271
00:16:00,560 --> 00:16:03,720
Speaker 1: have to make a quick edit to what I said earlier.

272
00:16:04,200 --> 00:16:06,440
Speaker 1: This is just everyone listening who said, Matt, you a

273
00:16:06,560 --> 00:16:08,600
Speaker 1: v s are a thing. Ben is absolutely right and

274
00:16:08,640 --> 00:16:12,160
Speaker 1: you are wrong. You are correct. It is uh. It's

275
00:16:12,160 --> 00:16:17,040
Speaker 1: not even called unidentified aerial something. It's called unexplained aerial phenomena.

276
00:16:17,400 --> 00:16:21,480
Speaker 1: So so that's you a p Yes you up up? Yeah,

277
00:16:21,760 --> 00:16:24,840
Speaker 1: So apologies for everyone who was really frustrated before the break.

278
00:16:25,600 --> 00:16:27,800
Speaker 1: Let's continue on. I think they were shaking their fists

279
00:16:27,800 --> 00:16:31,920
Speaker 1: at their I hope someone cacast device someone called and

280
00:16:31,960 --> 00:16:34,840
Speaker 1: then they got done with their voicemail and they listened

281
00:16:34,880 --> 00:16:37,720
Speaker 1: through to the rest of the podcast. It just goes

282
00:16:37,760 --> 00:16:39,440
Speaker 1: to show you, like, there's so many things in my

283
00:16:39,520 --> 00:16:41,440
Speaker 1: brain that I feel like I know things about, but

284
00:16:41,480 --> 00:16:44,120
Speaker 1: I only have bits and pieces human condition, my friends,

285
00:16:44,120 --> 00:16:45,680
Speaker 1: but you know what I do know about? What do

286
00:16:45,720 --> 00:16:47,920
Speaker 1: you know about? Because it's written down in this awesome

287
00:16:47,920 --> 00:16:52,720
Speaker 1: outline that it's the story of this guy named John

288
00:16:52,760 --> 00:16:56,600
Speaker 1: Carver Meadows Frost and everybody you know his friends they

289
00:16:56,600 --> 00:16:59,800
Speaker 1: call him Jack. He worked in the aerospace industry for

290
00:17:00,040 --> 00:17:03,480
Speaker 1: quite a while and in June of nine seven he

291
00:17:03,560 --> 00:17:07,520
Speaker 1: started working for this Canadian company called Avro Canada A

292
00:17:07,640 --> 00:17:10,760
Speaker 1: b R. Oh, yeah, that's right. And uh, you know

293
00:17:11,440 --> 00:17:14,400
Speaker 1: this dude's all about, you know, dream of big He's

294
00:17:14,400 --> 00:17:19,040
Speaker 1: a big picture guy, that's right. And uh he would

295
00:17:19,119 --> 00:17:21,560
Speaker 1: um he worked in or he like did this thing

296
00:17:21,680 --> 00:17:25,840
Speaker 1: that Avro called Blue Skies Research. So like these are

297
00:17:25,960 --> 00:17:29,320
Speaker 1: when we say big picture things, ideas that are so

298
00:17:29,880 --> 00:17:32,240
Speaker 1: close to the edge of what science can do, they're

299
00:17:32,600 --> 00:17:36,520
Speaker 1: they're overlapping or just beyond what is possible. Um, and

300
00:17:36,560 --> 00:17:41,680
Speaker 1: that's our boy Jack. He's thinking on the edge, Jackie Boy,

301
00:17:41,800 --> 00:17:47,080
Speaker 1: that's right, Old Jack Frost himself. Yes, at Avro Canada,

302
00:17:47,600 --> 00:17:51,040
Speaker 1: he had already worked on something called the Avro CF

303
00:17:51,160 --> 00:17:54,680
Speaker 1: one hundred. This is UH. This is a craft that

304
00:17:54,840 --> 00:18:02,680
Speaker 1: is innovative but not wild wild style Blue Skies, Blue

305
00:18:02,720 --> 00:18:06,600
Speaker 1: Skies research is stuff like UH. In the world of aviation.

306
00:18:07,160 --> 00:18:10,480
Speaker 1: An example of something that would be considered experimental would

307
00:18:10,480 --> 00:18:16,360
Speaker 1: be the Howard Hughes designed UH Spruce Goose, the largest

308
00:18:16,400 --> 00:18:21,520
Speaker 1: plane in history that we know of, spruce geese. Yes,

309
00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:24,120
Speaker 1: and if you look at pictures of that thing, it's

310
00:18:24,240 --> 00:18:27,600
Speaker 1: it's enormous, It's it's impractical. I think it's I've seen

311
00:18:27,600 --> 00:18:29,199
Speaker 1: it before. I feel like, is it on display in

312
00:18:29,240 --> 00:18:32,560
Speaker 1: like San Francisco. It's on the West coast right, Oh,

313
00:18:32,680 --> 00:18:35,520
Speaker 1: you know what, it's a it's actually the Evergreen Aviation

314
00:18:35,600 --> 00:18:42,400
Speaker 1: Museum in um mcmonville, Oregon. Interesting, nice, well done mcmonville.

315
00:18:42,960 --> 00:18:45,280
Speaker 1: So you can look at pictures of this thing. Is

316
00:18:45,320 --> 00:18:47,679
Speaker 1: built largely out of wood. He called it the H

317
00:18:47,760 --> 00:18:52,000
Speaker 1: four Hercules. It has the name spruce Goose, which came

318
00:18:52,040 --> 00:18:56,840
Speaker 1: about as an insult from a skeptical press. The world

319
00:18:56,840 --> 00:19:00,080
Speaker 1: of brainstorming is high risk, high return, but this of

320
00:19:00,119 --> 00:19:02,760
Speaker 1: the world that Jack wants to live in. So, after

321
00:19:02,880 --> 00:19:05,800
Speaker 1: he's been working on the Avro CF one hundred, he

322
00:19:05,880 --> 00:19:09,520
Speaker 1: creates a research team called the Special Projects Group or SPG,

323
00:19:10,160 --> 00:19:14,760
Speaker 1: and he at first surrounded himself with other people who

324
00:19:15,000 --> 00:19:17,399
Speaker 1: thought like he did, out of the box, you know

325
00:19:17,440 --> 00:19:24,359
Speaker 1: what I mean, Mavericks improvisers. So this group SPG, Special

326
00:19:24,359 --> 00:19:28,240
Speaker 1: Projects Group, was situated in their main administration building, but

327
00:19:28,280 --> 00:19:33,400
Speaker 1: then they relocated it to an older structure across from

328
00:19:33,400 --> 00:19:36,359
Speaker 1: the company headquarters and what was called the Schaefer Building,

329
00:19:36,560 --> 00:19:39,879
Speaker 1: and their security went through the roof. They had guards everywhere,

330
00:19:40,119 --> 00:19:46,639
Speaker 1: locked doors, special unique pass cards. They started doing serious stuff,

331
00:19:46,680 --> 00:19:48,200
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. The days of hanging out

332
00:19:48,200 --> 00:19:52,040
Speaker 1: in the conference room with a chalkboard were long gone.

333
00:19:52,280 --> 00:19:56,120
Speaker 1: Nobody can see this chalkboard right now. It's all secret chalk.

334
00:19:56,480 --> 00:19:58,879
Speaker 1: Disappearing chalk is that I think? I guess chalk is

335
00:19:58,920 --> 00:20:03,720
Speaker 1: disappearing aracer. So the SPG operated out of this experimental

336
00:20:03,800 --> 00:20:08,119
Speaker 1: hangar and they shared space with other secretive Avro project teams.

337
00:20:09,480 --> 00:20:13,720
Speaker 1: Jack was personally fascinated, along with a lot of other people,

338
00:20:14,000 --> 00:20:17,880
Speaker 1: by something called vertical takeoff and landing vehicles also known

339
00:20:17,920 --> 00:20:20,800
Speaker 1: as v t o L that are pretty cool. Can

340
00:20:20,880 --> 00:20:24,199
Speaker 1: you say v tall or we need to say I

341
00:20:24,280 --> 00:20:29,639
Speaker 1: like tall craft? Right, there might be somebody named Vital

342
00:20:29,760 --> 00:20:33,959
Speaker 1: listening now, and if you are, you know hello. So

343
00:20:34,880 --> 00:20:38,560
Speaker 1: for a VTOL aircraft, really think about a helicopter, um,

344
00:20:38,640 --> 00:20:40,920
Speaker 1: especially when you're thinking about taking off and landing something

345
00:20:40,960 --> 00:20:44,040
Speaker 1: that vertically goes up and goes out and then you

346
00:20:44,119 --> 00:20:46,280
Speaker 1: can come back and go down and you can get

347
00:20:46,280 --> 00:20:50,080
Speaker 1: out of the thing. Um and you know. And for

348
00:20:50,160 --> 00:20:53,360
Speaker 1: these aircraft, the specific ones that Jack is interested in,

349
00:20:53,520 --> 00:20:57,920
Speaker 1: it's having that ability to take off vertically but then

350
00:20:58,000 --> 00:21:01,800
Speaker 1: fly around like an airplane would or jet, then come

351
00:21:01,920 --> 00:21:03,959
Speaker 1: right back and then go back down like the X

352
00:21:03,960 --> 00:21:08,640
Speaker 1: Men jet. Yeah, right with the that has the rotating turbines, right,

353
00:21:08,880 --> 00:21:11,200
Speaker 1: which is a really cool feature, kind of like an osprey.

354
00:21:11,240 --> 00:21:14,280
Speaker 1: I believe the craft are called. Yeah. So in the

355
00:21:14,359 --> 00:21:18,239
Speaker 1: nineteen fifties, the US Air Force was worried about the

356
00:21:18,320 --> 00:21:23,680
Speaker 1: vulnerability of their bases because of a couple of limiting

357
00:21:23,720 --> 00:21:27,200
Speaker 1: factors of conventional aircraft. Right, yeah, and then this is

358
00:21:27,240 --> 00:21:28,840
Speaker 1: something we should talk about. The Ben and I were

359
00:21:28,840 --> 00:21:33,959
Speaker 1: talking about off offline here in seven is when the

360
00:21:34,040 --> 00:21:37,000
Speaker 1: US Air Force splits off or is officially split off

361
00:21:37,080 --> 00:21:41,240
Speaker 1: from the Army from just as a as a separate

362
00:21:41,280 --> 00:21:45,520
Speaker 1: military unit. And you know this is at this point

363
00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:49,359
Speaker 1: post World War two, but they've got these bases that

364
00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:52,080
Speaker 1: are all over the planet. At this point, they're they're

365
00:21:52,119 --> 00:21:56,280
Speaker 1: pretty isolated, and the Air Force around this time in

366
00:21:56,320 --> 00:22:00,399
Speaker 1: the nineteen fifties, they're really worried that these these bases

367
00:22:00,440 --> 00:22:02,879
Speaker 1: are just gonna get destroyed because if you if you

368
00:22:02,880 --> 00:22:06,080
Speaker 1: imagine looking at one of these bases overhead, like Google

369
00:22:06,119 --> 00:22:09,920
Speaker 1: mapsing it or Google earthing it, uh, back in let's

370
00:22:09,920 --> 00:22:15,399
Speaker 1: say nine, Um, you're just gonna see several huge runways

371
00:22:15,960 --> 00:22:18,919
Speaker 1: and then a bunch of extremely high value targets just

372
00:22:19,080 --> 00:22:23,840
Speaker 1: clustered around these runways in a single basket exactly. And

373
00:22:23,880 --> 00:22:26,800
Speaker 1: that's aircraft of course, just sitting around the runways. So

374
00:22:26,840 --> 00:22:28,800
Speaker 1: they wanted to find a way to reduce either the

375
00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:31,840
Speaker 1: length and thickness of their runways so it's not such

376
00:22:31,880 --> 00:22:35,040
Speaker 1: a like, um, if you're flying overhead or nearby in

377
00:22:35,080 --> 00:22:37,280
Speaker 1: an enemy vehicle, you can't just go, oh, hey, look

378
00:22:37,600 --> 00:22:40,240
Speaker 1: that's a military base, and we can wreak havoc on

379
00:22:40,520 --> 00:22:44,720
Speaker 1: their offensive and defensive capabilities if we attack that thing. Um.

380
00:22:44,800 --> 00:22:47,640
Speaker 1: And they also wanted to so they wanted to either

381
00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:49,720
Speaker 1: reduce them, make them smaller, or just get rid of

382
00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:53,480
Speaker 1: them completely, so you could have basically a United States

383
00:22:53,480 --> 00:22:55,119
Speaker 1: Air Force base in the middle of nowhere, and it

384
00:22:55,119 --> 00:22:57,920
Speaker 1: would be a little more hidden, at least a bit.

385
00:22:58,600 --> 00:23:00,040
Speaker 1: The other thing they wanted to do is find a

386
00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:05,040
Speaker 1: way to deploy aircraft faster for both offensive and defensive capabilities.

387
00:23:05,240 --> 00:23:07,800
Speaker 1: So if your base is being attacked, you can send

388
00:23:08,359 --> 00:23:10,719
Speaker 1: you can send aircraft up that will knock down all

389
00:23:10,760 --> 00:23:12,960
Speaker 1: the other planes that are coming into attack you, or

390
00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:15,760
Speaker 1: you can send them off quicker to go attack nearby areas.

391
00:23:15,840 --> 00:23:19,960
Speaker 1: So we're doucing scramble time exactly. That makes sense. And

392
00:23:20,040 --> 00:23:23,480
Speaker 1: this the v T O L thing, just what Jack

393
00:23:23,560 --> 00:23:26,480
Speaker 1: is interested in. That was one of the proposed solutions.

394
00:23:27,400 --> 00:23:31,600
Speaker 1: The thing is, this sort of experimentation is spoiler alert

395
00:23:32,160 --> 00:23:38,520
Speaker 1: cartoonishly expensive. It's not uncommon, but it is expensive. And

396
00:23:38,720 --> 00:23:42,480
Speaker 1: because often these are some of the first people trying

397
00:23:42,520 --> 00:23:45,280
Speaker 1: to do this kind of thing ever, right and in

398
00:23:45,320 --> 00:23:49,879
Speaker 1: any kind of any kind of hardware prototyping, often they

399
00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:53,120
Speaker 1: are prone to failure. And I don't mean like, oh, good,

400
00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:56,240
Speaker 1: lesson learned. I mean this is a disaster. These people

401
00:23:56,240 --> 00:23:59,240
Speaker 1: are dead. Why do we lose millions of dollars on this.

402
00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:01,119
Speaker 1: Remember that have a So we did a ridiculous history

403
00:24:01,119 --> 00:24:04,280
Speaker 1: bend that was about failed military technology, and one of

404
00:24:04,280 --> 00:24:07,000
Speaker 1: them was like a hoverboard kind of platform face that

405
00:24:07,080 --> 00:24:08,879
Speaker 1: was kind of part of the technology for one of

406
00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:11,160
Speaker 1: these vital jets, right, it was the part that lifts

407
00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:13,679
Speaker 1: the thing up off the ground. But that was literally

408
00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:15,480
Speaker 1: all these were. And you would control it sort of

409
00:24:15,480 --> 00:24:17,880
Speaker 1: like a segue by like leaning into it or back

410
00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:21,320
Speaker 1: or sideways. So you looked really silly, and it just was.

411
00:24:21,359 --> 00:24:23,720
Speaker 1: It was very unwieldy and heavy, and they weren't very

412
00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:27,080
Speaker 1: good at like anything. The flying platform flying platforms it like,

413
00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:29,320
Speaker 1: you know, it had this sci fi space vibe to

414
00:24:29,520 --> 00:24:31,600
Speaker 1: or like everyone's like zipping around on these little discs,

415
00:24:31,880 --> 00:24:34,800
Speaker 1: you know, like flying saucers. But they just weren't very

416
00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:37,960
Speaker 1: functional in a war situation. Yeah, they were more they

417
00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:41,240
Speaker 1: were more a rich person's toy, I think ultimately, but

418
00:24:41,480 --> 00:24:44,880
Speaker 1: also like a segue, like when we think of when

419
00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:48,320
Speaker 1: we think of these experiments, let's also remember things like

420
00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:53,679
Speaker 1: bat bombs. Let's remember things like cyborg cats that was

421
00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:57,080
Speaker 1: a real thing, rocket bullets, rocket bullets, all all sorts

422
00:24:57,080 --> 00:24:59,800
Speaker 1: of stuff and si dolphins, SPI dolphins, and that's not

423
00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:06,080
Speaker 1: even getting into assassination attempts and equipment. So they know

424
00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:10,600
Speaker 1: they're in again, a high risk, high rewards situation. There's

425
00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:13,400
Speaker 1: something else interesting that happens in society at this time.

426
00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:16,920
Speaker 1: So flying saucers are experiencing what pr people here in

427
00:25:16,960 --> 00:25:20,880
Speaker 1: twenty would call a moment. There is a proliferation of

428
00:25:20,920 --> 00:25:24,119
Speaker 1: sightings flying saucers in the West as a whole, but

429
00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:27,959
Speaker 1: across the world, and there is serious concern, not just

430
00:25:28,320 --> 00:25:31,879
Speaker 1: it's not just newspaper publishers trying to sell the next

431
00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:35,920
Speaker 1: week's edition. It's not just fringe theorist anymore. There are

432
00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:41,760
Speaker 1: members of the U. S. Military who are seriously anxious, concerned,

433
00:25:42,160 --> 00:25:45,320
Speaker 1: terrified would be a fair word. That Soviet forces may

434
00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:48,399
Speaker 1: have beaten them to the punch, creating their own top

435
00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:52,480
Speaker 1: secret vt o L in other words, creating their own

436
00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:56,439
Speaker 1: flying saucers. So these folks at the higher echelons of

437
00:25:56,480 --> 00:25:59,600
Speaker 1: the military and politics are essentially saying, what if all

438
00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:02,920
Speaker 1: these flying saucer sidings are real? And what if they're

439
00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:06,800
Speaker 1: you know, they're not spaceman or something, they're not aliens there,

440
00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:10,400
Speaker 1: you know, well, they would probably say commies or reds

441
00:26:10,520 --> 00:26:13,919
Speaker 1: or something like that. Yeah. Well, so in the in

442
00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:19,040
Speaker 1: late nineteen fifty three, a group of defense experts took

443
00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:22,480
Speaker 1: a little visit to Avro, Canada to view this new

444
00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:26,240
Speaker 1: thing that was called the CF one fighter jet. Because

445
00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:29,520
Speaker 1: you know, you don't just need crazy experimental things that

446
00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:32,040
Speaker 1: might happen, you also need real fighter jets when you're

447
00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:34,600
Speaker 1: the military. And that's what. Yeah, the U. S. Air

448
00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:37,199
Speaker 1: Forces there just to see that jet. It's important to

449
00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:40,199
Speaker 1: this story. Yeah, and we'll tell you what happened on

450
00:26:40,240 --> 00:26:49,440
Speaker 1: their visit after a word from our sponsor and we're back.

451
00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:54,520
Speaker 1: So midway through the tour, or pal Jack Frost bust

452
00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:58,320
Speaker 1: In and and hijacks them. Essentially, he takes these visitors

453
00:26:58,600 --> 00:27:02,360
Speaker 1: to the high security Special Projects area and he does

454
00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:05,879
Speaker 1: a little show and tell. He gives them a look

455
00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:09,240
Speaker 1: at a mock up of something he calls Project why too.

456
00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:14,959
Speaker 1: This is a completely circular disc shaped aircraft. Yes, right

457
00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:18,119
Speaker 1: in the USA. Have visitors were pretty impressed by what

458
00:27:18,280 --> 00:27:21,680
Speaker 1: they saw. They took over funding for the Special Projects

459
00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:25,600
Speaker 1: Group and gave seven hundred and fifty thousand American dollars

460
00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:29,000
Speaker 1: in nineteen fifty five, which, if we inflation calculated that

461
00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:33,280
Speaker 1: by today's standards, it's a little over seven million dollars.

462
00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:37,440
Speaker 1: Pretty crazy, right, And the next year avro Um decided

463
00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:40,760
Speaker 1: to commit two and a half million five dollars to

464
00:27:40,840 --> 00:27:43,680
Speaker 1: build a prototype. So, as you said before, ben very

465
00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:45,600
Speaker 1: expensive to do this kind of out of the box

466
00:27:45,680 --> 00:27:49,160
Speaker 1: kind of thinking and research. Yeah, and the reward could

467
00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:52,840
Speaker 1: be amazing, Yes, yes, could be or could be relegated

468
00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:57,480
Speaker 1: to the scrap heap of history. It's it's marginally bedder

469
00:27:57,480 --> 00:28:01,360
Speaker 1: than gambling, you know what I mean. So this study

470
00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:05,760
Speaker 1: encompassed a wide variety of possible designs, but they all

471
00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:09,800
Speaker 1: revolved around this disc shape, this flying saucer shape, leading

472
00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:14,480
Speaker 1: to something called Project seventeen nine four. The goal was

473
00:28:14,520 --> 00:28:19,680
Speaker 1: to build a supersonic large disc fighter aircraft, so a

474
00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:23,960
Speaker 1: fighter jet that's also a circle basically, yeah, and again

475
00:28:24,119 --> 00:28:27,720
Speaker 1: think about this, a flying disc, a flying saucer then

476
00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:33,240
Speaker 1: engages other aircraft and ground objects. Like how crazy is that? Again,

477
00:28:33,280 --> 00:28:36,320
Speaker 1: this is a real thing at this point. So they

478
00:28:36,359 --> 00:28:38,560
Speaker 1: eventually get to the level where they're doing what's called

479
00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:42,600
Speaker 1: wind tunnel testing with scale models, So they're studying how

480
00:28:42,760 --> 00:28:46,840
Speaker 1: these things move through the environment and what little tweaks

481
00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:49,960
Speaker 1: or big changes they can make to make it less

482
00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:53,360
Speaker 1: of a disaster. A wind tunnel simulating the conditions of

483
00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:56,280
Speaker 1: high speed flight without actually having to reach those speeds

484
00:28:56,400 --> 00:29:00,960
Speaker 1: absolutely nail on the head. Yeah. They eventually decide that

485
00:29:01,520 --> 00:29:05,520
Speaker 1: the reasonable estimate for this concept would result in a

486
00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:10,520
Speaker 1: vehicle that can go mock three point five at one

487
00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:14,000
Speaker 1: thousand foot altitudes or thirty thousand meters for the rest

488
00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:19,200
Speaker 1: of the world. This led to something called the Avro Car,

489
00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:21,160
Speaker 1: which is a real thing that you can see today

490
00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:22,920
Speaker 1: if you want to travel to a museum and check

491
00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:27,400
Speaker 1: it out. Highly recommended. Jack Frost built this kills me.

492
00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:29,760
Speaker 1: This guy's name is Jack Frost. How many he must

493
00:29:29,760 --> 00:29:33,440
Speaker 1: have been so cool. He built this as a two

494
00:29:33,520 --> 00:29:38,440
Speaker 1: seer personal car kind of concept, so it's much smaller

495
00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:43,720
Speaker 1: than what they were aiming to build. Man, it showed,

496
00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:45,920
Speaker 1: you know, and meant to It was a proof of concept.

497
00:29:46,040 --> 00:29:47,920
Speaker 1: It was meant to show, Hey, these things can work.

498
00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:50,360
Speaker 1: We can actually put people in them. They can take off,

499
00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:53,320
Speaker 1: they can fly around, they can land, everybody will be alive,

500
00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:57,960
Speaker 1: will high five each other. Awesome, go us. And at

501
00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:02,520
Speaker 1: the time, this was just a step towards their ultimate goal,

502
00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:05,440
Speaker 1: the supersonic flying saucer. How do we know about this?

503
00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:07,680
Speaker 1: How do we know this is real and not a story?

504
00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:11,680
Speaker 1: No one really knew. No one officially knew about this

505
00:30:12,080 --> 00:30:17,640
Speaker 1: until two thousand and twelve, when declassified documents showed the

506
00:30:17,680 --> 00:30:20,440
Speaker 1: rumors were true. Which happens all the time. How many

507
00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:23,520
Speaker 1: people can you imagine who are engineers on their deathbed

508
00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:26,880
Speaker 1: telling their kids like, no, it's true. We we kind

509
00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:29,600
Speaker 1: of built flying saucers. Is there a statute of limitations

510
00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:31,960
Speaker 1: that allows things to be things to be declassified as

511
00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:34,240
Speaker 1: it's sort of like a copyright expiring or does someone

512
00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:35,800
Speaker 1: just up high kind of have to say, you know what,

513
00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:37,640
Speaker 1: I don't think it's a big deal anymore. People want

514
00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:39,520
Speaker 1: to know. It'd probably be fun to let this out there.

515
00:30:39,560 --> 00:30:42,240
Speaker 1: What do you think? The protocol is not fun? But

516
00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:45,520
Speaker 1: you know, fun for the people you know, you can

517
00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:47,480
Speaker 1: give them a little something to go on here. I

518
00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:50,560
Speaker 1: would just start I would start by saying, while I

519
00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:53,000
Speaker 1: don't know the exact parameters of that time frame, I

520
00:30:53,040 --> 00:30:55,040
Speaker 1: do know that after a certain amount of time it

521
00:30:55,120 --> 00:30:59,080
Speaker 1: comes up as it can be reviewed essentially to be declassified.

522
00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:02,680
Speaker 1: If it can be reclassified at that point, it is

523
00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:07,160
Speaker 1: kind of like a that's not a bad comparison, because

524
00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:11,360
Speaker 1: there were things that came out recently regarding or there

525
00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:16,560
Speaker 1: were things up for review excuse me, regarding the Kennedy assassination. Uh,

526
00:31:16,600 --> 00:31:21,320
Speaker 1: some of which were released and some of which were reclassified.

527
00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:26,680
Speaker 1: And the problem is there. The criteria for that is

528
00:31:26,680 --> 00:31:30,720
Speaker 1: is it fun? That's number one? That's the number one.

529
00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:34,560
Speaker 1: Are we all having a good time? Uh? Number two

530
00:31:34,760 --> 00:31:40,640
Speaker 1: is does this still pose a continued risk to national security?

531
00:31:40,840 --> 00:31:46,160
Speaker 1: Or two people? Sorry, the exposure of methods and technologies

532
00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:50,480
Speaker 1: used to gain information or advantage get an edge. Yeah,

533
00:31:50,680 --> 00:31:54,320
Speaker 1: and that's that's such a woefully vague thing that that

534
00:31:54,480 --> 00:31:57,880
Speaker 1: happens all the time. What isn't national security? You could

535
00:31:57,880 --> 00:32:01,280
Speaker 1: you could stretch that to anything total. But because of

536
00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:05,600
Speaker 1: this two thousand and twelve declassified a documentation, we got

537
00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:07,680
Speaker 1: to take a look for the first time this memo

538
00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:10,600
Speaker 1: that comes from nineteen fifty six that really shows what

539
00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:14,120
Speaker 1: the engineers there at Avro were attempting to build the

540
00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:16,960
Speaker 1: like the thing they wanted the end goal to be.

541
00:32:17,480 --> 00:32:20,280
Speaker 1: And it gets back to a saucer like vehicle that

542
00:32:20,360 --> 00:32:23,800
Speaker 1: was capable of reaching quote between Mack three and Mark four,

543
00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:27,120
Speaker 1: a ceiling of over one hundred thousand feet means meaning

544
00:32:27,120 --> 00:32:29,800
Speaker 1: it can climb all the way up to over or

545
00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:33,600
Speaker 1: around over a hundred thousand feet and a maximum range

546
00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:36,480
Speaker 1: with allowances. This is still the quote of about one

547
00:32:36,520 --> 00:32:40,920
Speaker 1: thousand nautical miles incredible bowers. And that's you know, that's

548
00:32:41,040 --> 00:32:44,280
Speaker 1: nineteen fifties six when the memo is written, so that

549
00:32:44,440 --> 00:32:47,920
Speaker 1: is the same year that Avro itself gives that two

550
00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:52,080
Speaker 1: point five million dollars in nineteen fifty six bucks. As

551
00:32:52,120 --> 00:32:55,280
Speaker 1: you said, nol uh to the project. As far as

552
00:32:55,320 --> 00:33:00,360
Speaker 1: we can tell, this supersonic flying saucer, it can weird

553
00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:03,560
Speaker 1: that there's a real thing, would propel itself by rotating

554
00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:06,800
Speaker 1: an outer disk, get a very very high speed, and

555
00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:10,520
Speaker 1: then maneuvering would be accomplished by using small shutters on

556
00:33:10,560 --> 00:33:13,479
Speaker 1: the edge of the disc. It would be powered by

557
00:33:13,560 --> 00:33:17,520
Speaker 1: jet turbines, so no secret technology there. And according to

558
00:33:17,560 --> 00:33:21,240
Speaker 1: the cutaway diagrams you can see maybe four four so

559
00:33:21,360 --> 00:33:25,240
Speaker 1: digitized pictures of this. According to those cutaway diagrams, the

560
00:33:25,440 --> 00:33:29,760
Speaker 1: entire thing would be able to take off and land vertically,

561
00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:34,200
Speaker 1: so it would move in a way that closely resembled

562
00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:37,560
Speaker 1: the movements reported of flying saucers. Can we can we

563
00:33:37,840 --> 00:33:40,000
Speaker 1: just take a minute and look at this cutaway together

564
00:33:40,040 --> 00:33:43,520
Speaker 1: because it is dang fascinated. And there are some things

565
00:33:44,240 --> 00:33:46,200
Speaker 1: that Ben and I were talking about off air before

566
00:33:46,240 --> 00:33:50,040
Speaker 1: you came in all uh. In particular, the cockpit area

567
00:33:50,120 --> 00:33:52,120
Speaker 1: at the very center of this vehicle that Ben was

568
00:33:52,200 --> 00:33:58,760
Speaker 1: describing is directly surrounded by four large rings of the

569
00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:02,240
Speaker 1: fuel that runs the entire vehicle. So if you're sitting

570
00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:05,960
Speaker 1: inside this thing, you're literally surrounded by all of the

571
00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:09,560
Speaker 1: combustible stuff that is being used to run the fool.

572
00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:11,480
Speaker 1: So if you take a direct hit, you're just like

573
00:34:11,719 --> 00:34:17,720
Speaker 1: you're just your toast. You're sacrificing Uh, You're sacrifice endurability

574
00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:21,560
Speaker 1: for flexibility or agility would be a better word. Your

575
00:34:21,640 --> 00:34:24,279
Speaker 1: your main strategy is to not get hit. Well, it's

576
00:34:24,280 --> 00:34:27,200
Speaker 1: like those U boats where they had the toilets mounted

577
00:34:27,280 --> 00:34:29,719
Speaker 1: right above the batteries that ran the whole thing. So

578
00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:32,280
Speaker 1: in the toilets malfunction, that would like flood the batteries

579
00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:34,840
Speaker 1: and cause all these problems. Because it's sort of like,

580
00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:38,400
Speaker 1: you know, you take a hit on design in ordered

581
00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:40,319
Speaker 1: or you take a hit maybe on safety in order

582
00:34:40,360 --> 00:34:42,560
Speaker 1: to like pack more features into it. It's just like

583
00:34:42,600 --> 00:34:46,080
Speaker 1: a video game where you can choose characters that are

584
00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:49,960
Speaker 1: faster than average but weaker, or you can choose characters

585
00:34:49,960 --> 00:34:55,160
Speaker 1: that are absolute tanks but slow. Yeah, well then let's

586
00:34:55,239 --> 00:34:56,800
Speaker 1: let's just talk about this really fast, because I was

587
00:34:56,840 --> 00:34:59,239
Speaker 1: fascinated by that design and I am nowhere near an

588
00:34:59,280 --> 00:35:01,799
Speaker 1: engineer or is a sister or anything like that. But

589
00:35:02,280 --> 00:35:04,320
Speaker 1: you have to imagine the fuel tanks in a vehicle

590
00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:07,400
Speaker 1: like this are gonna be like fairly heavy at the

591
00:35:07,440 --> 00:35:11,120
Speaker 1: beginning at takeoff, right when you're all fueled up. Then

592
00:35:11,200 --> 00:35:13,839
Speaker 1: by the end of your mission, that's gonna be the

593
00:35:13,880 --> 00:35:15,360
Speaker 1: weight at the center of the vehicle is going to

594
00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:18,680
Speaker 1: be significantly reduced to change the handling probably right, Well,

595
00:35:18,719 --> 00:35:23,360
Speaker 1: I mean because you're you know, literally the spinning disk

596
00:35:23,520 --> 00:35:27,360
Speaker 1: part of this is what's giving you not fully propulsion,

597
00:35:27,440 --> 00:35:30,920
Speaker 1: but it's what's sting the craft to effect and keeping

598
00:35:30,920 --> 00:35:33,720
Speaker 1: you in the air. Um, the whole thing. It blows

599
00:35:33,760 --> 00:35:36,279
Speaker 1: my mind. Um, And I just want to hear from

600
00:35:36,280 --> 00:35:39,080
Speaker 1: anybody out there listening that understands the physics of it

601
00:35:39,080 --> 00:35:42,920
Speaker 1: a little better. Um, please please look at look at

602
00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:48,000
Speaker 1: the project documentation and let us know here's a here's

603
00:35:48,000 --> 00:35:50,839
Speaker 1: a weird thing. Though it still is not clear why

604
00:35:51,160 --> 00:35:53,759
Speaker 1: to that original question, one of US post It's still

605
00:35:53,800 --> 00:36:00,279
Speaker 1: isn't clear why it's taken more than sixty years for

606
00:36:00,360 --> 00:36:06,480
Speaker 1: this to be declassified, especially if they didn't actually build

607
00:36:06,520 --> 00:36:11,160
Speaker 1: anything other than that little avro Car prototype. But it

608
00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:14,120
Speaker 1: follows on from the declassified news in two thousand and

609
00:36:14,160 --> 00:36:17,239
Speaker 1: eight that the US government has been monitoring UFO activity

610
00:36:17,239 --> 00:36:20,080
Speaker 1: for decades in secret, way after they said Project Blue

611
00:36:20,120 --> 00:36:24,440
Speaker 1: Book was over. And furthermore, there are apparently rumors that

612
00:36:24,440 --> 00:36:29,560
Speaker 1: they are apparently two entire boxes of Projects seventy nine documents,

613
00:36:29,600 --> 00:36:34,080
Speaker 1: but only only a handful of images have been digitized. Yeah,

614
00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:36,600
Speaker 1: literally four that we we were able to find in

615
00:36:36,640 --> 00:36:40,000
Speaker 1: making this episode. So here's the problem. The story gets murky, right.

616
00:36:40,320 --> 00:36:43,319
Speaker 1: The closest thing we have to a real prototype is

617
00:36:43,320 --> 00:36:47,839
Speaker 1: that VZ nine avro Car, and that prototype, by all accounts,

618
00:36:48,719 --> 00:36:52,360
Speaker 1: was a stinker. It was originally specified for mac speed

619
00:36:52,400 --> 00:36:55,160
Speaker 1: of three hundred miles per hour with a ceiling of

620
00:36:55,239 --> 00:36:57,719
Speaker 1: ten thousand feet instead of a hundred thousand, but in

621
00:36:57,760 --> 00:37:00,560
Speaker 1: practice it never got more than three ft off the ground.

622
00:37:00,840 --> 00:37:05,799
Speaker 1: Its top speed was thirty five miles per hour. This, yeah,

623
00:37:05,880 --> 00:37:09,919
Speaker 1: you know, in despite the Avrocar's failures which were clear

624
00:37:09,920 --> 00:37:12,600
Speaker 1: and apparent It's also clear and apparent that the US

625
00:37:12,680 --> 00:37:16,360
Speaker 1: government was indeed working on aircraft in the nineteen fifties

626
00:37:16,360 --> 00:37:20,080
Speaker 1: that resembled flying saucers. Suffice to say, the US may

627
00:37:20,080 --> 00:37:22,560
Speaker 1: have been working on flying saucers back in the forties

628
00:37:22,760 --> 00:37:25,799
Speaker 1: around the same time as the Roswell UFO incident. Now

629
00:37:25,800 --> 00:37:30,040
Speaker 1: we're we're going we're putting some strings together here, That's

630
00:37:30,040 --> 00:37:32,439
Speaker 1: what I was gonna ask. I mean, you know, let's

631
00:37:32,520 --> 00:37:35,480
Speaker 1: let's presuppose that they did discover some kind of craft

632
00:37:35,480 --> 00:37:38,120
Speaker 1: at Roswell. Do you think it's possible that they took

633
00:37:38,120 --> 00:37:40,560
Speaker 1: a queue from some of that technology that they found,

634
00:37:40,600 --> 00:37:42,800
Speaker 1: if in fact this happened, and then tried to apply

635
00:37:42,920 --> 00:37:46,920
Speaker 1: it to you know, the design, maybe quite possibly. Yeah,

636
00:37:47,040 --> 00:37:50,200
Speaker 1: And this uh, and that's why I was classified for

637
00:37:50,239 --> 00:37:51,600
Speaker 1: so long, even though they knew they weren't going to

638
00:37:51,640 --> 00:37:54,560
Speaker 1: pursue it anymore, because it would raise these questions. Maybe

639
00:37:54,560 --> 00:37:58,080
Speaker 1: a Soviet saucer crashed and then they had to make

640
00:37:58,120 --> 00:38:01,280
Speaker 1: a whole dog and pony show about pretending to invent

641
00:38:01,320 --> 00:38:04,600
Speaker 1: the technology on their own. It's interesting, and that kind

642
00:38:04,640 --> 00:38:09,480
Speaker 1: of duplicity does play into international affairs. It's fascinating, it's

643
00:38:09,520 --> 00:38:13,000
Speaker 1: addictive and tempting to to think of what could have been.

644
00:38:13,040 --> 00:38:15,280
Speaker 1: We do have an episode where we get as close

645
00:38:15,320 --> 00:38:19,759
Speaker 1: as we can to discerning the cause of of that

646
00:38:19,880 --> 00:38:23,920
Speaker 1: event that's commonly called you know, roswell or groom lak,

647
00:38:24,440 --> 00:38:26,600
Speaker 1: but we don't want to spoil it for you now.

648
00:38:26,640 --> 00:38:28,239
Speaker 1: And I would highly yeah, I check it out and

649
00:38:28,360 --> 00:38:31,640
Speaker 1: highly recommend the YouTube series that we made on that tube,

650
00:38:31,360 --> 00:38:35,200
Speaker 1: and we did a YouTube to wow on time flies. Well.

651
00:38:35,280 --> 00:38:39,680
Speaker 1: Unlike other experimental projects of the same era, this project

652
00:38:39,800 --> 00:38:44,160
Speaker 1: was fully canceled in December nine. That leaves us with

653
00:38:44,239 --> 00:38:47,200
Speaker 1: some troubling questions. Why would you pour all of this

654
00:38:47,320 --> 00:38:50,200
Speaker 1: money into something just to shelve it later. There are

655
00:38:50,239 --> 00:38:53,919
Speaker 1: a couple of possibilities. First, one obvious one. We could

656
00:38:53,920 --> 00:38:58,240
Speaker 1: say it just didn't work, either because our engineering ability

657
00:38:58,320 --> 00:39:00,759
Speaker 1: or our technology at the time was just inadequate to

658
00:39:00,800 --> 00:39:06,480
Speaker 1: solve the problems, or because the physics involved we're beyond

659
00:39:06,520 --> 00:39:10,080
Speaker 1: our ken as well. And again, like we're talking about earlier,

660
00:39:10,080 --> 00:39:14,200
Speaker 1: we know this happens all the time with military prototypes,

661
00:39:14,600 --> 00:39:17,640
Speaker 1: Like they designed a circular ship, remember that one terrible

662
00:39:17,680 --> 00:39:19,920
Speaker 1: idea When the guns would fire, it would shoot the

663
00:39:19,920 --> 00:39:23,000
Speaker 1: ship around in circles. You know it was somebody, some

664
00:39:23,200 --> 00:39:25,560
Speaker 1: general or something. It was really hot for this idea

665
00:39:25,880 --> 00:39:28,160
Speaker 1: and was high up enough in the you know, the military,

666
00:39:28,160 --> 00:39:30,680
Speaker 1: that he got the dollars, but it was an embarrassable,

667
00:39:31,080 --> 00:39:33,279
Speaker 1: terrible idea. Could very well be the case here. They

668
00:39:33,320 --> 00:39:35,759
Speaker 1: don't like to admit defeat. And then yeah, and then

669
00:39:35,800 --> 00:39:38,760
Speaker 1: there was that there was that tank that was essentially

670
00:39:38,760 --> 00:39:42,520
Speaker 1: a sphere that just had three guns randomly pointing out,

671
00:39:45,719 --> 00:39:49,000
Speaker 1: Oh it's great. Well, you have to earn it, you know,

672
00:39:49,120 --> 00:39:52,080
Speaker 1: you have to earn these great innovations and not uh

673
00:39:52,200 --> 00:39:53,680
Speaker 1: not everything is going to be the goose to the

674
00:39:53,719 --> 00:39:56,680
Speaker 1: least the golden egg. But we do know that the

675
00:39:56,840 --> 00:40:00,319
Speaker 1: military pursued something like this, and it's something we're all

676
00:40:00,320 --> 00:40:02,799
Speaker 1: familiar with, Jay, right, Oh yeah, well we can't. We've

677
00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:04,359
Speaker 1: brought it up a little bit already in the show.

678
00:40:04,400 --> 00:40:07,080
Speaker 1: But helicopters, if you're if you want to have a

679
00:40:07,200 --> 00:40:10,080
Speaker 1: vertical takeoff and landing solution, well guess what we got

680
00:40:10,080 --> 00:40:13,000
Speaker 1: these things called helicopters. You can have bigger helicopters that

681
00:40:13,120 --> 00:40:15,719
Speaker 1: have multiple propellers, right, that's right. You know, they can't

682
00:40:15,760 --> 00:40:18,200
Speaker 1: do a lot of the things that the military wanted

683
00:40:18,239 --> 00:40:21,360
Speaker 1: to do, dives and such and evasive maneuver is probably

684
00:40:21,360 --> 00:40:24,680
Speaker 1: more difficult, and specifically getting as high into the atmosphere

685
00:40:24,760 --> 00:40:27,520
Speaker 1: as these vehicles or go anywhere near as fast as

686
00:40:27,560 --> 00:40:30,239
Speaker 1: they wanted these vehicles to go. There are some fast helicopters,

687
00:40:30,280 --> 00:40:33,560
Speaker 1: but nothing like that. But what helicopters did do is

688
00:40:33,600 --> 00:40:36,319
Speaker 1: fix that problem that the military had, or at least

689
00:40:36,360 --> 00:40:40,400
Speaker 1: the perceived problem the military had, of these giant runways

690
00:40:40,480 --> 00:40:43,960
Speaker 1: of their far flung bases and needing to have defense

691
00:40:43,960 --> 00:40:46,640
Speaker 1: of those bases, and as well as having aircraft that

692
00:40:46,680 --> 00:40:49,600
Speaker 1: could deploy quickly and you know, go up and down

693
00:40:49,800 --> 00:40:52,560
Speaker 1: quickly rather than having to take off with a big runway.

694
00:40:52,760 --> 00:40:56,200
Speaker 1: So maybe they just found a compromise then, right, they said,

695
00:40:56,239 --> 00:40:59,480
Speaker 1: this is what we can realistically do now it certainly

696
00:40:59,480 --> 00:41:01,080
Speaker 1: seems like And then the timing makes a lot of

697
00:41:01,080 --> 00:41:04,239
Speaker 1: sense here too, because if this the Avro car was

698
00:41:04,280 --> 00:41:10,399
Speaker 1: canceled December nine, in early nineteen sixty two, that's when

699
00:41:10,600 --> 00:41:14,560
Speaker 1: the U. S. Air Force really started ramping up their

700
00:41:14,600 --> 00:41:20,359
Speaker 1: training of personnel that can both fly and work on helicopters,

701
00:41:20,400 --> 00:41:22,799
Speaker 1: like mechanics essentially pilots and mechanics, because they're like, this

702
00:41:22,800 --> 00:41:25,600
Speaker 1: is the best we got. We better just known it. Well, yeah,

703
00:41:25,680 --> 00:41:29,080
Speaker 1: because again it's the the Vietnam War really ramps up,

704
00:41:29,080 --> 00:41:33,840
Speaker 1: and that's when we see a lot more helicopters. Another possibility,

705
00:41:33,880 --> 00:41:38,560
Speaker 1: this was just one of many experiments or or dabblings

706
00:41:38,880 --> 00:41:42,480
Speaker 1: that a terrified government participated in. Maybe not so much

707
00:41:42,520 --> 00:41:45,760
Speaker 1: because they thought it was practical. Uh, maybe more because

708
00:41:46,160 --> 00:41:51,839
Speaker 1: they were hoping to keep their ideological rivals, the USSR

709
00:41:52,000 --> 00:41:57,280
Speaker 1: at bay. So many weird things come from the psychological

710
00:41:57,400 --> 00:42:00,600
Speaker 1: mind games of the Cold War. You know, we experimented

711
00:42:00,600 --> 00:42:05,680
Speaker 1: with psychic powers, esp astral travel, and were convinced many

712
00:42:05,719 --> 00:42:09,160
Speaker 1: people in the US, the U S Military industrial complex,

713
00:42:09,160 --> 00:42:12,160
Speaker 1: We're convinced that not only were Soviet forces doing the

714
00:42:12,200 --> 00:42:15,319
Speaker 1: same thing, but that they were doing it successfully. So

715
00:42:15,400 --> 00:42:17,440
Speaker 1: they were like, more money, teach that guy how to

716
00:42:17,719 --> 00:42:21,560
Speaker 1: kill things with his mind. So I've got, I've got.

717
00:42:22,800 --> 00:42:24,400
Speaker 1: This is what I believe. I'm just gonna tell you.

718
00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:26,840
Speaker 1: I'm gonna tell you my opinion right now. Late on me.

719
00:42:27,040 --> 00:42:30,560
Speaker 1: The reason why we only have four images, four pages

720
00:42:30,760 --> 00:42:36,120
Speaker 1: from projects is because it rather than being a reaction

721
00:42:36,360 --> 00:42:40,080
Speaker 1: to some Soviet thing that we thought was happening, this

722
00:42:40,200 --> 00:42:44,280
Speaker 1: is us trying to get the Soviet Union to spend

723
00:42:44,280 --> 00:42:46,560
Speaker 1: a crap load of money trying to build one of

724
00:42:46,600 --> 00:42:49,279
Speaker 1: these things. Because we've already got this design and it's

725
00:42:49,280 --> 00:42:52,960
Speaker 1: going to do all these things. It's our psychological manipulation

726
00:42:53,000 --> 00:42:56,440
Speaker 1: of them. Counterpoint, it would have to have leaked in

727
00:42:56,560 --> 00:42:59,319
Speaker 1: some controllable way. They leaked it on purpose, I think,

728
00:42:59,480 --> 00:43:03,960
Speaker 1: to some all that they knew was around. Okay, yeah, yeah,

729
00:43:04,400 --> 00:43:08,680
Speaker 1: Well that that does lead us to one one more possibility.

730
00:43:08,960 --> 00:43:12,480
Speaker 1: What if this is a cover story or something like it,

731
00:43:13,040 --> 00:43:16,799
Speaker 1: you know, I mean, now, far be it for us

732
00:43:16,800 --> 00:43:21,880
Speaker 1: to sound two out there, but it is common practice

733
00:43:22,000 --> 00:43:25,799
Speaker 1: to run these games of deception. You know. Tanks were

734
00:43:26,680 --> 00:43:31,440
Speaker 1: called tanks because they were originally shipped under false you know,

735
00:43:31,520 --> 00:43:35,359
Speaker 1: under false pretense, false papers. They were called water tanks, right,

736
00:43:35,719 --> 00:43:38,040
Speaker 1: and it turned out that they were these rolling weapons

737
00:43:38,080 --> 00:43:43,040
Speaker 1: of mass destruction for the time. It's completely understandable that

738
00:43:43,120 --> 00:43:46,040
Speaker 1: people would say there was something else to the story.

739
00:43:46,400 --> 00:43:50,120
Speaker 1: We have to keep in mind additionally that the US

740
00:43:50,160 --> 00:43:54,239
Speaker 1: government and other world governments have had massive success suppressing

741
00:43:54,239 --> 00:43:58,719
Speaker 1: technology in the past. Bombers, especially stealth bombers. Right. We

742
00:43:58,800 --> 00:44:02,120
Speaker 1: grew up in an era where they were this open secret,

743
00:44:02,160 --> 00:44:06,440
Speaker 1: and every so often popular mechanics would write a piece saying, oh,

744
00:44:06,920 --> 00:44:09,640
Speaker 1: maybe it's true, but it's not. And it turns out

745
00:44:09,800 --> 00:44:12,399
Speaker 1: they were totally true. They were totally true, and they

746
00:44:12,400 --> 00:44:16,000
Speaker 1: looked insane like nothing you would ever seem so metal,

747
00:44:16,760 --> 00:44:21,279
Speaker 1: you know what I mean? Metal? Right? So, in conclusion, yes,

748
00:44:21,440 --> 00:44:25,480
Speaker 1: it turns out there are slash were real flying saucers.

749
00:44:25,719 --> 00:44:28,080
Speaker 1: They were built here on Earth, and according to the

750
00:44:28,120 --> 00:44:31,919
Speaker 1: official narratives, they were what we in the automotive world

751
00:44:32,000 --> 00:44:37,719
Speaker 1: would call lemons or real pieces issues. However, the US

752
00:44:37,840 --> 00:44:41,960
Speaker 1: government and numerous aerospace companies have again proven themselves fully

753
00:44:42,000 --> 00:44:46,560
Speaker 1: capable of suppressing technology for some time. We just don't

754
00:44:46,560 --> 00:44:49,759
Speaker 1: know how long that time horizon is. You know, they

755
00:44:49,760 --> 00:44:52,200
Speaker 1: call lemons guys. I don't know. Lemons are nice. What's

756
00:44:52,239 --> 00:44:57,239
Speaker 1: wrong with lemons? M it's just so sour. Maybe it

757
00:44:57,239 --> 00:44:59,200
Speaker 1: implies that there's something wrong with it. A perfectly good

758
00:44:59,280 --> 00:45:01,600
Speaker 1: lemon is just just it's just just that it's a lemon.

759
00:45:01,640 --> 00:45:06,479
Speaker 1: According to the online Etymology Dictionary, no one really knows.

760
00:45:06,520 --> 00:45:08,760
Speaker 1: There are a couple. There are a couple of possibilities.

761
00:45:09,000 --> 00:45:11,040
Speaker 1: Lemon used to be slaying for a person who is

762
00:45:11,080 --> 00:45:14,399
Speaker 1: a quote loser or a simpleton. Uh, they would be

763
00:45:14,640 --> 00:45:17,319
Speaker 1: dumb as a lemon. I guess and uh. Then there

764
00:45:17,400 --> 00:45:20,880
Speaker 1: was British pool hall slaying, where a lemon game was

765
00:45:20,920 --> 00:45:24,080
Speaker 1: a game that was played by someone hustling. You. Oh,

766
00:45:24,120 --> 00:45:26,680
Speaker 1: that makes more sense to me if it's a lemon,

767
00:45:26,719 --> 00:45:29,120
Speaker 1: because the ideas you bottle limen, it's not what you see,

768
00:45:29,160 --> 00:45:31,279
Speaker 1: it's what you get, right Like you you're seeing this

769
00:45:31,320 --> 00:45:34,000
Speaker 1: person who is looking like something, but they're actually like

770
00:45:34,080 --> 00:45:36,960
Speaker 1: something else. There you go there, Well, now that we

771
00:45:37,040 --> 00:45:40,200
Speaker 1: went down the etymological rabbit hole, how much do you

772
00:45:40,239 --> 00:45:42,120
Speaker 1: like lemen? Do you? Are you somebody just straight up

773
00:45:42,120 --> 00:45:44,279
Speaker 1: eats lemons? Know what? I will tell you this? Um,

774
00:45:44,320 --> 00:45:46,840
Speaker 1: I bought these things that are called super berry pills.

775
00:45:46,840 --> 00:45:48,799
Speaker 1: Have you heard about this? Yeah? Yeah, And they make

776
00:45:49,000 --> 00:45:51,320
Speaker 1: sour things taste sweet. So you can eat one of

777
00:45:51,360 --> 00:45:53,600
Speaker 1: these pills and it fundamentally changes the way your taste

778
00:45:53,600 --> 00:45:55,799
Speaker 1: buds perceive sourness and sweetness. So you can suck on

779
00:45:55,800 --> 00:45:57,879
Speaker 1: a lemon and it tastes like sugar. I've been, I've

780
00:45:57,880 --> 00:46:01,640
Speaker 1: been to the Taste Taste Hack parties to those. Those

781
00:46:01,680 --> 00:46:04,160
Speaker 1: things are pretty cool. It's an interesting experience if you

782
00:46:04,160 --> 00:46:07,120
Speaker 1: haven't tried it before, especially if you have some form

783
00:46:07,320 --> 00:46:12,120
Speaker 1: of uh, gustatory synesthesia. I can only imagine what kind

784
00:46:12,160 --> 00:46:16,080
Speaker 1: of colors you will see. It is completely possible that

785
00:46:16,160 --> 00:46:18,880
Speaker 1: at least some of those UFO sightings back in the forties,

786
00:46:18,960 --> 00:46:22,239
Speaker 1: well before the declassified memos mentioned AVRO, could have been

787
00:46:22,280 --> 00:46:27,080
Speaker 1: attributed to similar or other related projects. What kind I

788
00:46:27,120 --> 00:46:29,000
Speaker 1: know that a lot of us listening now are saying,

789
00:46:30,320 --> 00:46:33,000
Speaker 1: mention it. You guys, don't swindle list You have to

790
00:46:33,040 --> 00:46:35,240
Speaker 1: mention it on air. Whatever you talk about this topic,

791
00:46:35,640 --> 00:46:40,359
Speaker 1: Nazi UFOs, Nazi technology. Do you mean some battle right right?

792
00:46:40,680 --> 00:46:45,759
Speaker 1: Or the horton right? There is compelling evidence of innovative

793
00:46:45,840 --> 00:46:50,160
Speaker 1: prototypes made by the Nazi regime around that time, and

794
00:46:50,320 --> 00:46:54,040
Speaker 1: we have various episodes all about it, so you can

795
00:46:54,160 --> 00:46:56,960
Speaker 1: check those out easily on our website stuff they don't

796
00:46:57,000 --> 00:46:59,680
Speaker 1: want you to know, or YouTube or wherever you find

797
00:47:00,040 --> 00:47:07,200
Speaker 1: your favorite shows and podcasts. All together though, FACTI flying saucers.

798
00:47:08,480 --> 00:47:11,960
Speaker 1: We're kind of real, yeah, even officially kind of real,

799
00:47:12,000 --> 00:47:14,040
Speaker 1: at least for a second. It makes you wonder what

800
00:47:14,160 --> 00:47:16,520
Speaker 1: else is up there in the atmosphere today, You know

801
00:47:16,520 --> 00:47:18,640
Speaker 1: what I mean, what do you think? Let us know? Also,

802
00:47:18,880 --> 00:47:20,880
Speaker 1: let us know what you think about helicopters. Have you,

803
00:47:20,880 --> 00:47:24,600
Speaker 1: guys ever been in the helicopter only once or twice once.

804
00:47:24,760 --> 00:47:30,040
Speaker 1: They're great. Have you seen those Chinook Those are the

805
00:47:30,040 --> 00:47:34,719
Speaker 1: twin Prop. Yeah, and they were actually in development not

806
00:47:35,000 --> 00:47:38,080
Speaker 1: far off from when this Avro deal was going on

807
00:47:38,120 --> 00:47:41,680
Speaker 1: in n seven by the Vertal company. People are trying

808
00:47:41,680 --> 00:47:45,479
Speaker 1: to solve the same problem in different ways. There are

809
00:47:45,520 --> 00:47:47,799
Speaker 1: also depend on the city in which you live, there

810
00:47:47,800 --> 00:47:52,239
Speaker 1: are helicopter tours, so I would say, unless they're super expensive,

811
00:47:52,400 --> 00:47:54,800
Speaker 1: get on one if you can. It's a great date idea.

812
00:47:54,960 --> 00:47:59,080
Speaker 1: And apparently in New York now Uber is operating helicopters

813
00:47:59,120 --> 00:48:02,160
Speaker 1: where you can get Uber Helicopter to pick you up

814
00:48:02,280 --> 00:48:04,160
Speaker 1: and take you to the airport, and it's only about

815
00:48:04,680 --> 00:48:09,279
Speaker 1: the cost of a flight. But I'll tell you, man,

816
00:48:09,320 --> 00:48:11,719
Speaker 1: it's weird flex taking a taking a lift or an

817
00:48:11,800 --> 00:48:13,480
Speaker 1: Uber to the airport in New York City is a

818
00:48:13,560 --> 00:48:16,680
Speaker 1: harrowing experience. It's an endeavor yet a long time. People

819
00:48:16,680 --> 00:48:19,560
Speaker 1: who drive regularly in New York have made their peace

820
00:48:20,200 --> 00:48:22,960
Speaker 1: with the afterlife there every time they hop in special

821
00:48:23,040 --> 00:48:25,400
Speaker 1: kind of sadists as well. I would say kudo ce

822
00:48:25,600 --> 00:48:28,560
Speaker 1: road warriors also, and perhaps a little bit more in

823
00:48:28,640 --> 00:48:32,160
Speaker 1: line with today's show. Let us know whether you think

824
00:48:32,320 --> 00:48:37,000
Speaker 1: there is technology still being suppressed today. And if so,

825
00:48:37,239 --> 00:48:40,200
Speaker 1: what we often hear, for instance that at least in

826
00:48:40,200 --> 00:48:45,080
Speaker 1: the realm of software and algorithms, the n essay is

827
00:48:45,080 --> 00:48:50,400
Speaker 1: is far ahead of what would be considered viable or

828
00:48:50,560 --> 00:48:55,080
Speaker 1: ethical in the public commercial sphere. So what what kind

829
00:48:55,080 --> 00:48:56,920
Speaker 1: of stuff do you think is out there? We're we're

830
00:48:57,000 --> 00:49:00,560
Speaker 1: interested and please send any corresponding links or evidence you have.

831
00:49:00,880 --> 00:49:02,520
Speaker 1: Do you think it's all a bunch of bunk? Do

832
00:49:02,560 --> 00:49:05,719
Speaker 1: you think this is mass hysteria? Let us know, let

833
00:49:05,800 --> 00:49:08,880
Speaker 1: us know what and why. That's right? Find us on

834
00:49:08,920 --> 00:49:12,120
Speaker 1: Facebook and Twitter where we're conspiracy stuff. Find us on

835
00:49:12,160 --> 00:49:15,160
Speaker 1: Instagram where we're conspiracy stuff show. If you don't want

836
00:49:15,200 --> 00:49:17,640
Speaker 1: to do that, leave us a message. Like we said

837
00:49:17,640 --> 00:49:21,000
Speaker 1: at the top, we are one eight three three st

838
00:49:21,320 --> 00:49:24,359
Speaker 1: d w y t K. And if you don't want

839
00:49:24,360 --> 00:49:26,839
Speaker 1: to do any of that stuff, there's more. Oh there's more. Yeah.

840
00:49:26,840 --> 00:49:28,799
Speaker 1: You can find me and Ben individually on Instagram if

841
00:49:28,840 --> 00:49:31,080
Speaker 1: you so choose. I am at how now Noel Brown.

842
00:49:31,560 --> 00:49:33,840
Speaker 1: You can find me getting kicked into and out of

843
00:49:34,000 --> 00:49:38,200
Speaker 1: various airports, countries and regions at Ben Bullet Natural Planes

844
00:49:39,360 --> 00:49:44,319
Speaker 1: comment no comment, Oh that's great and uh yeah, so

845
00:49:44,520 --> 00:49:47,400
Speaker 1: that's it. If you want to send an email to

846
00:49:47,680 --> 00:49:50,840
Speaker 1: us that we will see on our phones and computers

847
00:49:50,840 --> 00:49:54,359
Speaker 1: and all that stuff, just send us one too. Conspiracy

848
00:49:54,360 --> 00:50:15,560
Speaker 1: at iHeart radio dot com. Mmmmm, Stuff they Don't want

849
00:50:15,560 --> 00:50:17,560
Speaker 1: you to Know is a production of I heart Radio's

850
00:50:17,560 --> 00:50:20,240
Speaker 1: How Stuff Works. For more podcasts from my heart Radio,

851
00:50:20,400 --> 00:50:23,240
Speaker 1: visit the i heart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

852
00:50:23,320 --> 00:50:24,600
Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows.