1 00:00:01,720 --> 00:00:06,560 Speaker 1: Cool Zone Media. 2 00:00:04,880 --> 00:00:08,480 Speaker 2: Hello, and welcome to it could happen like bastards are dying? 3 00:00:08,680 --> 00:00:16,440 Speaker 2: Is cool Doing cool Stuff? Wow? Eh, that's my that's 4 00:00:16,480 --> 00:00:19,239 Speaker 2: my cool Zone Media mixed with the show that isn't 5 00:00:19,239 --> 00:00:23,439 Speaker 2: Cool Zone Media introduction or well you all know the 6 00:00:23,440 --> 00:00:25,160 Speaker 2: title of it. You clicked on it in the thing. 7 00:00:26,320 --> 00:00:28,880 Speaker 2: Everyone else is holding up dogs and or dog pillows. 8 00:00:28,880 --> 00:00:31,880 Speaker 2: But my dog is out saving the world from airplanes 9 00:00:31,920 --> 00:00:35,479 Speaker 2: by running around my yard barking at them, and not 10 00:00:35,680 --> 00:00:38,479 Speaker 2: a single airplane has come into my yard since my 11 00:00:38,600 --> 00:00:45,760 Speaker 2: dog has started keeping watch. So I will just say earlier, yeahshaw, okay, 12 00:00:45,800 --> 00:00:48,360 Speaker 2: shout out to someone sent me a message where someone 13 00:00:48,440 --> 00:00:50,800 Speaker 2: was like, oh, I really liked that podcast Cool People 14 00:00:50,840 --> 00:00:52,680 Speaker 2: Did Cool Stuff. I can't remember the name of the host. 15 00:00:52,680 --> 00:00:55,520 Speaker 2: You know that lady who like lives alone with her dog? 16 00:00:56,720 --> 00:01:00,440 Speaker 2: And I'm like, oh, is that who you are? You're 17 00:01:00,440 --> 00:01:04,000 Speaker 2: the lady who lives alone with her dog? Yeah, I'm 18 00:01:04,200 --> 00:01:04,640 Speaker 2: doing it. 19 00:01:04,959 --> 00:01:06,119 Speaker 3: Yeah. 20 00:01:06,200 --> 00:01:08,840 Speaker 2: So the podcast that you're all listening to is cool 21 00:01:08,880 --> 00:01:12,160 Speaker 2: People Did Cool Stuff. The voices you are hearing is 22 00:01:12,160 --> 00:01:15,360 Speaker 2: our producer Sophie. Hi, Sophie, I Margaret, I missed you. 23 00:01:16,000 --> 00:01:17,880 Speaker 2: I missed you too, And what is the name of 24 00:01:17,920 --> 00:01:19,639 Speaker 2: your dog splash dog pillow. 25 00:01:20,240 --> 00:01:25,160 Speaker 1: Oh, I'm holding an exact replica pillow of my dog 26 00:01:25,200 --> 00:01:29,080 Speaker 1: Anderson that my best friend Robin gave us. It's pretty amazing, 27 00:01:29,480 --> 00:01:32,119 Speaker 1: is amazing, and Anderson sleeps on her Anderson pillow. 28 00:01:32,240 --> 00:01:36,800 Speaker 3: So that's that's pretty great, so beautifully narcissistic. 29 00:01:36,840 --> 00:01:41,240 Speaker 2: I love that she's alive. Yeah. The other voice you 30 00:01:41,280 --> 00:01:43,800 Speaker 2: are hearing is my guest, Miriam. 31 00:01:44,240 --> 00:01:47,960 Speaker 3: I'm hi, I'm Miriam. I'm also holding up a dog. 32 00:01:48,120 --> 00:01:51,240 Speaker 3: This is a real dog and not a cushion, although I. 33 00:01:52,320 --> 00:01:58,440 Speaker 2: Could not convince me. Yeah, this is a cushion shaped dog, 34 00:01:58,600 --> 00:02:00,000 Speaker 2: a furry cushion. 35 00:02:01,280 --> 00:02:03,800 Speaker 3: Yeah, this is a cushion that eats a surprising amount 36 00:02:03,840 --> 00:02:04,440 Speaker 3: of dog food. 37 00:02:05,320 --> 00:02:09,040 Speaker 2: There are dogs in today's episode, not a lot of them. Well, 38 00:02:09,040 --> 00:02:10,520 Speaker 2: actually there are a lot of them, but they're not 39 00:02:10,560 --> 00:02:11,680 Speaker 2: a major part of the story. 40 00:02:13,360 --> 00:02:16,200 Speaker 3: I don't know what today's episode is about, because all 41 00:02:16,320 --> 00:02:19,280 Speaker 3: the only hint you would text me was that it 42 00:02:19,400 --> 00:02:23,720 Speaker 3: was suggested to you by my girlfriend. And when I 43 00:02:23,760 --> 00:02:27,920 Speaker 3: asked my girlfriend, they didn't remember. So I guessed the 44 00:02:27,960 --> 00:02:31,400 Speaker 3: two most likely people that they would have suggested to you. 45 00:02:32,320 --> 00:02:34,600 Speaker 2: They were wrong, wrong on both cowns. 46 00:02:34,760 --> 00:02:38,919 Speaker 3: No, Bo didn't tell you to do, Fred Hampton. 47 00:02:39,600 --> 00:02:41,280 Speaker 2: I most told me to do a lot of people, 48 00:02:41,320 --> 00:02:46,040 Speaker 2: but the particular person we're doing today, this week and 49 00:02:46,280 --> 00:02:48,600 Speaker 2: next week. It was going to be a one two parter, 50 00:02:48,720 --> 00:02:52,000 Speaker 2: but immediately got carried away because there's so much cool 51 00:02:52,000 --> 00:02:53,960 Speaker 2: shit that's going to happen. I'm also a lot of 52 00:02:54,320 --> 00:02:58,080 Speaker 2: heartbreaking shit because today we are going to talk about 53 00:02:58,160 --> 00:03:02,600 Speaker 2: Lakota resistance to the American Empire. Fantastic. 54 00:03:02,880 --> 00:03:05,400 Speaker 3: Mo is bouncing up and down next to me because 55 00:03:05,560 --> 00:03:08,880 Speaker 3: I'm wearing headphones. We are talking about Lakota resistance to 56 00:03:08,919 --> 00:03:15,400 Speaker 3: the American Empire. Yeah, most really happy about that. 57 00:03:17,240 --> 00:03:20,680 Speaker 2: Eventually, it's going to culminate into something that is happening now, 58 00:03:21,080 --> 00:03:23,400 Speaker 2: which is that there is a campaign that has been 59 00:03:23,440 --> 00:03:27,000 Speaker 2: going on longer than I've been alive to get a 60 00:03:27,000 --> 00:03:29,959 Speaker 2: man named Leonard Peltier free. That's where we're going to 61 00:03:29,960 --> 00:03:31,920 Speaker 2: talk about next week. First, we're going to talk about 62 00:03:31,919 --> 00:03:35,480 Speaker 2: the nineteenth century shit this week, which is also cool 63 00:03:35,480 --> 00:03:40,040 Speaker 2: and also unfortunately heartbreaking. But next week we'll talk about 64 00:03:40,080 --> 00:03:42,360 Speaker 2: the twentieth century and how it continues into the twenty 65 00:03:42,360 --> 00:03:46,360 Speaker 2: first century and hopefully not into the centuries after that. Instead, 66 00:03:46,360 --> 00:03:49,240 Speaker 2: people will be like, man, remember when there used to 67 00:03:49,240 --> 00:03:52,000 Speaker 2: be a United States of America instead of a confederation 68 00:03:52,160 --> 00:03:55,320 Speaker 2: of Indigenous lands, and people will be like, that's wacky, 69 00:03:56,560 --> 00:03:59,120 Speaker 2: and that's and then someone will get mad because we'll 70 00:03:59,120 --> 00:04:02,360 Speaker 2: have figured out something the word whacky not having never 71 00:04:02,400 --> 00:04:03,160 Speaker 2: mind anyway. 72 00:04:04,440 --> 00:04:08,600 Speaker 3: So you're I like, how you're imagining future people to 73 00:04:08,640 --> 00:04:11,680 Speaker 3: get mad at you. Yeah, yeah, kind of the opposite 74 00:04:11,680 --> 00:04:13,960 Speaker 3: of imagining a guy to get mad at Yeah. 75 00:04:14,200 --> 00:04:16,839 Speaker 2: It's probably because I joined back on Twitter. I was 76 00:04:16,920 --> 00:04:21,640 Speaker 2: free for months, Margret, Why did you do this? Because 77 00:04:21,680 --> 00:04:24,120 Speaker 2: I wanted more up to date news about the genocide 78 00:04:24,160 --> 00:04:27,839 Speaker 2: that my tax dollars are funding. Because the New York 79 00:04:27,880 --> 00:04:30,479 Speaker 2: Times will look at things like hundreds of thousands of 80 00:04:30,520 --> 00:04:34,400 Speaker 2: people marching in DC and say thousands of people gather 81 00:04:35,440 --> 00:04:38,359 Speaker 2: and then say even in the article, it was like, 82 00:04:38,480 --> 00:04:41,679 Speaker 2: we don't know how many people. And I'm like, crowd 83 00:04:41,800 --> 00:04:46,279 Speaker 2: estimates are as old as journalism, Like I can do 84 00:04:46,400 --> 00:04:49,000 Speaker 2: crowd estimates. By the time you've been to your like 85 00:04:49,240 --> 00:04:55,839 Speaker 2: fifth massive demonstration, you can do crowd estimates. Oh crap, 86 00:04:56,080 --> 00:05:00,600 Speaker 2: our audio engineers, Ian, this would have been a cursed episode, 87 00:05:00,760 --> 00:05:05,680 Speaker 2: Hi ian Ian. So we're going to start with an 88 00:05:05,680 --> 00:05:07,320 Speaker 2: awful lot of context. 89 00:05:07,600 --> 00:05:13,000 Speaker 4: Because oh man, context I know from me on cool people. 90 00:05:13,279 --> 00:05:18,120 Speaker 2: I know cool context that happened the cool terrible context 91 00:05:18,200 --> 00:05:20,919 Speaker 2: that happened to cool people. That's I will say for once. 92 00:05:21,040 --> 00:05:23,919 Speaker 3: I'm pretty sure the cool context is not going to 93 00:05:23,960 --> 00:05:28,800 Speaker 3: take us to medieval Ireland so or pre Roman Ireland. 94 00:05:28,960 --> 00:05:31,640 Speaker 2: Even I wonder if I can get that in here, 95 00:05:32,720 --> 00:05:35,320 Speaker 2: unfortunately in a very bad way, because we are going 96 00:05:35,360 --> 00:05:39,960 Speaker 2: to talk at some point about how settlers, often coming 97 00:05:40,000 --> 00:05:42,880 Speaker 2: from colonize in the pressed situations, become bad once they 98 00:05:43,000 --> 00:05:46,679 Speaker 2: enter a settler position, which, of course there's no modern 99 00:05:46,680 --> 00:05:51,440 Speaker 2: context anyway, think of any No, certainly not nothing that 100 00:05:51,520 --> 00:05:55,599 Speaker 2: got me back on Twitter. Okay, So I would argue 101 00:05:55,760 --> 00:05:58,400 Speaker 2: that the biggest lie I got told by my American 102 00:05:58,520 --> 00:06:02,520 Speaker 2: education was that the Revolutionary War was a good thing. 103 00:06:03,240 --> 00:06:06,360 Speaker 2: This is like my least popular opinion, if you ask 104 00:06:06,520 --> 00:06:12,479 Speaker 2: the broad population. The Revolutionary War was a was a 105 00:06:12,560 --> 00:06:15,360 Speaker 2: lateral move at best. And I'm going to explain why 106 00:06:15,400 --> 00:06:16,719 Speaker 2: I believe that this is the case. 107 00:06:17,520 --> 00:06:19,840 Speaker 3: I mean, you should make that point and make it hard, 108 00:06:19,880 --> 00:06:22,040 Speaker 3: but spoiler alert, I already agree with you. 109 00:06:22,400 --> 00:06:26,360 Speaker 2: Yeah no, yeah, that doesn't surprise me. The most important 110 00:06:26,360 --> 00:06:29,520 Speaker 2: thing is that I got kind of told it was 111 00:06:29,560 --> 00:06:33,840 Speaker 2: certainly heavily implied that this is the end of colonization, right, 112 00:06:33,839 --> 00:06:36,560 Speaker 2: We're no longer colony. We are now a nation, and 113 00:06:36,600 --> 00:06:40,680 Speaker 2: so colonization has ended. This is an absolute lie. The 114 00:06:40,720 --> 00:06:44,840 Speaker 2: American Revolution was the unleashing of unfettered colonization that continues 115 00:06:44,880 --> 00:06:49,200 Speaker 2: to this day. An anti colonial independence movement is when 116 00:06:49,200 --> 00:06:52,400 Speaker 2: the indigenous people and cultures of an area retained control 117 00:06:52,640 --> 00:06:55,080 Speaker 2: over their terrain. This is not what happened in the 118 00:06:55,120 --> 00:07:01,599 Speaker 2: American Revolutionary War, because in like the seventeen fifties or 119 00:07:01,600 --> 00:07:05,200 Speaker 2: so for anyone, the American Revolution was seventeen seventy six 120 00:07:05,240 --> 00:07:10,840 Speaker 2: to seventeen eighty three. In the In the seventeen fifties, 121 00:07:11,280 --> 00:07:14,000 Speaker 2: Britain controlled only the east coast of the United States 122 00:07:15,160 --> 00:07:19,320 Speaker 2: the Midwest, basically everything past the Appalachian Mountains was claimed 123 00:07:19,360 --> 00:07:24,680 Speaker 2: by France, who generally had friendlier relationships with various indigenous nations, 124 00:07:25,120 --> 00:07:29,600 Speaker 2: not because they were like, we're so good, French government 125 00:07:29,760 --> 00:07:35,720 Speaker 2: is nicer, but basically like they just they weren't as 126 00:07:35,720 --> 00:07:37,680 Speaker 2: interested in settling. They were much more interested in the 127 00:07:37,720 --> 00:07:42,160 Speaker 2: fur trade. They already had a good way of extracting 128 00:07:42,200 --> 00:07:44,360 Speaker 2: money from that area, basically. 129 00:07:44,520 --> 00:07:47,440 Speaker 3: And they were they were doing more of their atrocities 130 00:07:47,520 --> 00:07:49,280 Speaker 3: elsewhere in the Americas. 131 00:07:49,560 --> 00:07:53,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, that makes sense. The French kept also then they 132 00:07:53,160 --> 00:07:55,800 Speaker 2: were still fucking up these areas too, to be clear, 133 00:07:55,960 --> 00:07:57,800 Speaker 2: They kept trying to make people have like a clear 134 00:07:57,840 --> 00:08:01,240 Speaker 2: cut authoritarian hierarchy and use capitalism and all that shit, 135 00:08:01,560 --> 00:08:03,400 Speaker 2: and all these various nations are like, why the fuck 136 00:08:03,440 --> 00:08:05,240 Speaker 2: would we do that? We already have our own cool, 137 00:08:05,240 --> 00:08:09,880 Speaker 2: complicated systems already, right, that baffle the mind of the 138 00:08:10,760 --> 00:08:15,280 Speaker 2: you know, Western European hierarchical thinking, not because. 139 00:08:15,800 --> 00:08:19,120 Speaker 3: You know, you're not You're not dealing with people who 140 00:08:19,160 --> 00:08:22,840 Speaker 3: are like, who are going to be good to deal 141 00:08:22,880 --> 00:08:25,880 Speaker 3: with when they demand that you restructure your entire society 142 00:08:25,960 --> 00:08:27,800 Speaker 3: in order to have a fucking conversation. 143 00:08:28,240 --> 00:08:33,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, exactly. And so the British were like, well, 144 00:08:33,160 --> 00:08:35,680 Speaker 2: we want to go west of the Appalachians especially, we 145 00:08:35,720 --> 00:08:38,040 Speaker 2: want that. Actually this is more of the British colonists, 146 00:08:38,920 --> 00:08:43,120 Speaker 2: the Americans as they call themselves, and they're like, we 147 00:08:43,240 --> 00:08:44,880 Speaker 2: especially want that, sweet sense. 148 00:08:45,559 --> 00:08:48,480 Speaker 3: I like that you just dead named the American colonists. 149 00:08:48,800 --> 00:08:52,920 Speaker 2: Yeah that's right, fucking Brits. 150 00:08:53,520 --> 00:08:56,839 Speaker 3: George Washington, who calls himself a American. 151 00:08:56,960 --> 00:09:02,600 Speaker 2: Now, yeah, so they want Ohio and so then we 152 00:09:02,679 --> 00:09:04,560 Speaker 2: get do you know that we had a world war 153 00:09:04,600 --> 00:09:08,720 Speaker 2: in the eighteenth century. I do know that I didn't 154 00:09:08,760 --> 00:09:13,280 Speaker 2: really I like, vaguely, vaguely new. I'm going to call 155 00:09:13,320 --> 00:09:17,280 Speaker 2: this World War zero or that's very cool thing to 156 00:09:17,320 --> 00:09:19,320 Speaker 2: call it. Yeah, and it probably didn't deserve it. But 157 00:09:20,800 --> 00:09:23,319 Speaker 2: and this is called the Seven Years War, or if 158 00:09:23,320 --> 00:09:25,120 Speaker 2: you grew up in the United States, it's called the 159 00:09:25,120 --> 00:09:29,320 Speaker 2: French and Indian War, which is not France and indigenous 160 00:09:29,320 --> 00:09:32,719 Speaker 2: folks fighting against each other. It's US fighting against the 161 00:09:32,760 --> 00:09:36,240 Speaker 2: French and indigenous people. It's basically a pissing match. The 162 00:09:36,280 --> 00:09:38,440 Speaker 2: World War zero is a pissing match between France and 163 00:09:38,480 --> 00:09:41,319 Speaker 2: England that dragged half the world into it because of colonization, 164 00:09:42,280 --> 00:09:46,400 Speaker 2: and it obviously involved North America as well. The English 165 00:09:46,480 --> 00:09:49,120 Speaker 2: colonists fought the French, and some indigenous nations fought on 166 00:09:49,160 --> 00:09:53,120 Speaker 2: each side of that war, basically whatever suited their specific interests. 167 00:09:54,240 --> 00:10:00,160 Speaker 2: England wins that war. By seventeen sixty three, France in 168 00:10:00,200 --> 00:10:04,920 Speaker 2: England signed the Treaty of Paris. Spain gets Louisiana, England 169 00:10:04,920 --> 00:10:07,520 Speaker 2: gets the rest of the territory of New France, basically 170 00:10:07,640 --> 00:10:08,360 Speaker 2: the Midwest. 171 00:10:08,080 --> 00:10:12,600 Speaker 3: Shit well, and Louisiana went up a lot further on 172 00:10:12,679 --> 00:10:14,080 Speaker 3: that map than it does now. 173 00:10:14,360 --> 00:10:19,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, that makes sense. Okay, England gets Florida from Spain. 174 00:10:20,640 --> 00:10:23,080 Speaker 2: Plus there's a bunch of shit that England steals from 175 00:10:23,080 --> 00:10:25,000 Speaker 2: the French who had already stolen it in Africa and 176 00:10:25,040 --> 00:10:29,240 Speaker 2: the Indian sub continent. And this is always really funny 177 00:10:29,240 --> 00:10:31,240 Speaker 2: to me when you imagine the people like dividing up 178 00:10:31,280 --> 00:10:35,080 Speaker 2: this territory, because imagine like me and my neighbors like 179 00:10:35,400 --> 00:10:37,200 Speaker 2: go break into someone's house and then while the people 180 00:10:37,200 --> 00:10:39,280 Speaker 2: who are living there are like screaming at me and shit, 181 00:10:39,520 --> 00:10:41,520 Speaker 2: we just start to start fighting over like who gets 182 00:10:41,520 --> 00:10:46,040 Speaker 2: what bedroom? You know, That's what this war was. 183 00:10:46,360 --> 00:10:49,000 Speaker 3: Yes, that is funny and not at all horrifying. 184 00:10:49,400 --> 00:10:52,880 Speaker 2: No, oh my god, there's so much horror movie like, 185 00:10:53,800 --> 00:10:57,600 Speaker 2: Oh American history, this is going to be a rough one. Yeah, 186 00:10:57,760 --> 00:11:01,560 Speaker 2: I mean yeah, but there'll be really beautiful moments. 187 00:11:02,080 --> 00:11:04,200 Speaker 3: I mean most of the ones that you've had me 188 00:11:04,280 --> 00:11:07,520 Speaker 3: on for have involved genocide. I think the Pirate one 189 00:11:07,559 --> 00:11:10,120 Speaker 3: was genocide free mostly, but you know. 190 00:11:10,120 --> 00:11:13,040 Speaker 2: It's yeah, that was just instead of different kind of 191 00:11:13,040 --> 00:11:18,120 Speaker 2: moral complexity, like the immoral dis choice that I made 192 00:11:18,120 --> 00:11:20,880 Speaker 2: to make my sailor friend come on and talk about pirates. 193 00:11:22,800 --> 00:11:26,800 Speaker 2: That was great. Mariam had like one rule, just never 194 00:11:26,840 --> 00:11:29,360 Speaker 2: have me on about pirates, and I was like, let's 195 00:11:29,360 --> 00:11:31,720 Speaker 2: talk about pirates anyway, y'all should go back and listen 196 00:11:31,760 --> 00:11:35,960 Speaker 2: to that one. So so the colonists are like, fuck, yeah, 197 00:11:36,000 --> 00:11:38,560 Speaker 2: we won this war. We're gonna go rob that fucking 198 00:11:38,720 --> 00:11:41,680 Speaker 2: land a sweet Ohio it's waiting for us, you know. 199 00:11:42,960 --> 00:11:47,160 Speaker 2: But they didn't actually get to go there right away. First, 200 00:11:47,160 --> 00:11:49,160 Speaker 2: you get, well, two things gonna happen roughly at the 201 00:11:49,160 --> 00:11:51,000 Speaker 2: same time. You get Pontiac's War, where a ton of 202 00:11:51,040 --> 00:11:53,280 Speaker 2: indigenous people got together and are like, fuck you Brits, 203 00:11:53,280 --> 00:11:55,840 Speaker 2: get the fuck out. We were okay with the French kinda, 204 00:11:56,000 --> 00:11:58,559 Speaker 2: you all are way worse. This ended up in pretty 205 00:11:58,600 --> 00:12:01,839 Speaker 2: much a stalemate, and this is when genocidal fervor by 206 00:12:01,840 --> 00:12:04,680 Speaker 2: the colonists reaches an all time high because they're like, 207 00:12:05,040 --> 00:12:07,839 Speaker 2: but we just won this war. Can't we have all 208 00:12:07,880 --> 00:12:12,240 Speaker 2: your stuff now, you know? And so all the land 209 00:12:12,240 --> 00:12:15,320 Speaker 2: between the Appalachians and the Mississippi were a great, big 210 00:12:15,360 --> 00:12:19,199 Speaker 2: old Indian reserve and the king was like, don't go west, 211 00:12:19,320 --> 00:12:24,319 Speaker 2: young man. That's my that's my best joke of the week. Unfortunate. 212 00:12:25,080 --> 00:12:26,320 Speaker 3: No, it's great, it's. 213 00:12:26,679 --> 00:12:29,319 Speaker 2: Yeah, No, it's it's always important to point out when 214 00:12:29,320 --> 00:12:31,120 Speaker 2: you make a joke, that's how people know it's funny. 215 00:12:31,559 --> 00:12:35,400 Speaker 2: So the colonists are like, what do you fucking mean? 216 00:12:35,440 --> 00:12:37,440 Speaker 2: You can't just give all this fucking land to them, 217 00:12:37,480 --> 00:12:39,320 Speaker 2: Like we just want You can't. 218 00:12:39,120 --> 00:12:41,920 Speaker 3: Just give all this land to people who are already 219 00:12:42,040 --> 00:12:45,120 Speaker 3: on it and have been on it since time immemorial. 220 00:12:45,360 --> 00:12:47,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, like, what are you doing? We are British, I 221 00:12:47,880 --> 00:12:52,480 Speaker 2: mean or Americans and so. And to be clear, the 222 00:12:52,520 --> 00:12:54,920 Speaker 2: Crown wasn't doing this because they're like anti racist or 223 00:12:54,960 --> 00:12:59,079 Speaker 2: some shit. They wanted that fur trade that's already very 224 00:12:59,160 --> 00:13:01,240 Speaker 2: lucrative and brings a bunch of money, and they didn't 225 00:13:01,240 --> 00:13:03,400 Speaker 2: want to like specifically help the settlers who are starting 226 00:13:03,440 --> 00:13:06,000 Speaker 2: to get kind of kind of antsy. Anyway. 227 00:13:06,160 --> 00:13:09,800 Speaker 3: You know what I learned in my like late in 228 00:13:09,880 --> 00:13:14,440 Speaker 3: life American history class is that they didn't want to 229 00:13:15,080 --> 00:13:21,040 Speaker 3: send troops to deal with defending American settlers. Oh that 230 00:13:21,080 --> 00:13:23,360 Speaker 3: makes lushing into this area that they were told not 231 00:13:23,440 --> 00:13:25,800 Speaker 3: to go to. They were like, no, we like made 232 00:13:25,840 --> 00:13:28,080 Speaker 3: a whole piece and part of that piece involves you 233 00:13:28,160 --> 00:13:30,240 Speaker 3: not going there. And if you go there, then we're 234 00:13:30,280 --> 00:13:33,240 Speaker 3: going to have to protect you because you're our guys. 235 00:13:34,400 --> 00:13:36,920 Speaker 3: And that's that's like a whole use of resources that 236 00:13:37,080 --> 00:13:39,520 Speaker 3: we the British Empire don't feel like doing right now. 237 00:13:39,760 --> 00:13:42,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, And there's a lot of I'm learning more and 238 00:13:42,760 --> 00:13:46,840 Speaker 2: more about this pattern in history where settlers want to 239 00:13:47,000 --> 00:13:51,760 Speaker 2: go steal more territory in their settled colonial state, and 240 00:13:51,800 --> 00:13:54,600 Speaker 2: the like state itself is a little bit like really 241 00:13:55,200 --> 00:13:57,600 Speaker 2: right now, like you can do it later, and the 242 00:13:57,600 --> 00:13:59,520 Speaker 2: settlers like, oh, we're doing it, and then the state's like, 243 00:13:59,559 --> 00:14:01,240 Speaker 2: all right, I guess we're doing it, not because the 244 00:14:01,240 --> 00:14:04,040 Speaker 2: state is the good guy, but like it's just a 245 00:14:04,080 --> 00:14:06,719 Speaker 2: weird dynamic anyway, right. 246 00:14:06,640 --> 00:14:10,440 Speaker 3: Or like you tacitly allow settlers to go someplace where 247 00:14:10,440 --> 00:14:13,480 Speaker 3: they're officially not allowed to be, and then when harm 248 00:14:13,559 --> 00:14:16,120 Speaker 3: comes to them in the place that they are not 249 00:14:16,160 --> 00:14:18,360 Speaker 3: supposed to be, you're like, we must go and defend 250 00:14:18,440 --> 00:14:21,960 Speaker 3: them at all costs. And again, no parallels to anything. 251 00:14:22,280 --> 00:14:25,520 Speaker 2: No, it's a nineteenth century, exclusively. 252 00:14:24,920 --> 00:14:30,240 Speaker 3: Eighteenth and nineteenth century phenomenon. Yeah, history doesn't repeat itself. 253 00:14:30,560 --> 00:14:34,760 Speaker 2: Absolutely not. So the white Americans they throw a little 254 00:14:34,800 --> 00:14:38,520 Speaker 2: war you might have heard of. It's called the settlers 255 00:14:38,560 --> 00:14:40,280 Speaker 2: want to keep going west to steal more ship, but 256 00:14:40,320 --> 00:14:43,480 Speaker 2: the king won't let them. War also sometimes called the 257 00:14:43,480 --> 00:14:47,080 Speaker 2: Revolutionary War by certain like war hipsters, but mostly it's 258 00:14:47,120 --> 00:14:48,800 Speaker 2: known as the settlers want to keep going west to 259 00:14:48,840 --> 00:14:50,440 Speaker 2: steal moreship, but the king won't let them. War. 260 00:14:51,320 --> 00:14:54,160 Speaker 3: I always thought, though it was the Revolutionary War was 261 00:14:54,240 --> 00:14:56,600 Speaker 3: over selling it because like in a revolution you have 262 00:14:56,640 --> 00:15:02,160 Speaker 3: to overthrow a government, and like, I'm sorry, but like 263 00:15:03,440 --> 00:15:06,440 Speaker 3: the government of England was still very much the government 264 00:15:06,480 --> 00:15:09,440 Speaker 3: of England after the Revolutionary War. 265 00:15:09,920 --> 00:15:13,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, and there were other reasons too. The main thing 266 00:15:14,000 --> 00:15:16,040 Speaker 2: I got taught in school, which is true, is this 267 00:15:16,080 --> 00:15:18,200 Speaker 2: like big tax thing, But the landgrad was actually a 268 00:15:18,320 --> 00:15:21,600 Speaker 2: huge part of it. And also as soon as the 269 00:15:21,600 --> 00:15:23,480 Speaker 2: patriots won the war, they said higher taxes than the 270 00:15:23,520 --> 00:15:24,200 Speaker 2: crowd ever did. 271 00:15:24,800 --> 00:15:27,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, what was the Second War America did? 272 00:15:30,160 --> 00:15:34,440 Speaker 2: So speaking of that far more whiskey rebellion joke, Oh wait, 273 00:15:34,480 --> 00:15:36,280 Speaker 2: I didn't get that, No, I didn't. I don't know 274 00:15:36,280 --> 00:15:38,840 Speaker 2: as much about the whisky rebellion. I'm like vaguely aware 275 00:15:38,880 --> 00:15:39,320 Speaker 2: of it, but not. 276 00:15:39,440 --> 00:15:41,800 Speaker 3: Oh okay, well, now I'm slightly on the spot because 277 00:15:41,840 --> 00:15:43,680 Speaker 3: I like pulled out a reference to something that I 278 00:15:43,720 --> 00:15:47,240 Speaker 3: only half remember. But my memory of this is that 279 00:15:47,400 --> 00:15:51,600 Speaker 3: very soon after the War of Independence, a bunch of 280 00:15:53,000 --> 00:15:56,720 Speaker 3: rural guys, like farmers, most of whom were veterans of 281 00:15:56,840 --> 00:16:03,120 Speaker 3: the war, were brewing ski because why wouldn't you, right, 282 00:16:04,160 --> 00:16:07,120 Speaker 3: and the government wanted to tax it, and they didn't 283 00:16:07,160 --> 00:16:11,360 Speaker 3: want to let them, and so George Washington himself, I think, 284 00:16:12,120 --> 00:16:16,000 Speaker 3: and the US Army such as it was at the time, 285 00:16:16,520 --> 00:16:19,120 Speaker 3: like went and put down the rebellion of these guys 286 00:16:19,120 --> 00:16:21,200 Speaker 3: who didn't want the government to tax their whiskey. Because 287 00:16:21,240 --> 00:16:25,080 Speaker 3: the unless I'm like completely getting this wrong, and like, 288 00:16:25,360 --> 00:16:29,760 Speaker 3: I'm sure nobody will tweet at you if I'm wrong, Yeah, 289 00:16:29,840 --> 00:16:32,880 Speaker 3: you shouldn't have gotten back on Twitter. But that basically 290 00:16:32,880 --> 00:16:36,520 Speaker 3: as soon as the like you can't tax us war 291 00:16:36,720 --> 00:16:39,640 Speaker 3: was completed, that same government turned around and were like, 292 00:16:39,720 --> 00:16:42,400 Speaker 3: we're gonna tax you and fought a war for that purpose. 293 00:16:42,880 --> 00:16:45,840 Speaker 2: Okay, no, yeah, that makes sense, And yeah I was. 294 00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:49,440 Speaker 2: The little I knew about whiskey rebellion is the like 295 00:16:51,200 --> 00:16:53,760 Speaker 2: the actual like sort of oral working class was like, wait, 296 00:16:53,800 --> 00:16:58,720 Speaker 2: the aristocracy won again. That sucks. Yeah, I don't. I 297 00:16:58,760 --> 00:17:03,280 Speaker 2: don't entirely know. During the Revolutionary War, one thing I 298 00:17:03,320 --> 00:17:06,000 Speaker 2: do know because I did research on it for this episode. 299 00:17:06,280 --> 00:17:08,240 Speaker 2: I sort of knew this anyway, because I love talking 300 00:17:08,320 --> 00:17:11,439 Speaker 2: shit on the Revolutionary War. It's like my I totally 301 00:17:11,440 --> 00:17:15,720 Speaker 2: earned the name Kiljoy. Far more black and Indigenous people 302 00:17:15,720 --> 00:17:20,719 Speaker 2: fought against the Patriots than alongside them. About five thousand 303 00:17:20,720 --> 00:17:24,160 Speaker 2: to nine thousand black men became Black Patriots, whereas about 304 00:17:24,160 --> 00:17:27,720 Speaker 2: twenty thousand black men escaped their Patriots slavers to join 305 00:17:27,760 --> 00:17:30,360 Speaker 2: the British army because they were promised freedom by the king. 306 00:17:30,880 --> 00:17:33,399 Speaker 3: And this is the first deal that only one side 307 00:17:33,480 --> 00:17:36,399 Speaker 3: offered in that war. The Americans did not offer an 308 00:17:36,400 --> 00:17:37,160 Speaker 3: equivalent deal. 309 00:17:37,400 --> 00:17:40,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think some of the Black patriots were free, 310 00:17:40,960 --> 00:17:43,400 Speaker 2: but I think mostly they were free in the first 311 00:17:43,440 --> 00:17:45,040 Speaker 2: place or were enslaved the whole time. 312 00:17:45,160 --> 00:17:47,040 Speaker 3: Yeah, No, I think it was only like Britain, because 313 00:17:47,040 --> 00:17:49,720 Speaker 3: Britain offered like a blanket deal of if you come 314 00:17:49,760 --> 00:17:52,080 Speaker 3: fight for us, then you can be free. And they, 315 00:17:52,160 --> 00:17:57,120 Speaker 3: like I used to lead tours about the were history tours, 316 00:17:57,240 --> 00:18:00,760 Speaker 3: walking tours, and I once referenced this fact in a 317 00:18:00,960 --> 00:18:02,800 Speaker 3: tour to a group of school children and like the 318 00:18:02,880 --> 00:18:07,359 Speaker 3: mom who is like I'm contributing, like popped up and 319 00:18:07,400 --> 00:18:11,000 Speaker 3: went But the British lied because like, the British are the. 320 00:18:10,920 --> 00:18:12,960 Speaker 2: Bad guys, and I was like, no, they didn't, like. 321 00:18:14,440 --> 00:18:19,480 Speaker 3: Black people went to Canada, Like that's I don't know 322 00:18:19,520 --> 00:18:23,240 Speaker 3: why you think the British had to be like cartoon villains, 323 00:18:23,280 --> 00:18:25,480 Speaker 3: Like they were not lying about that one. 324 00:18:25,640 --> 00:18:28,719 Speaker 2: They lied a lot, but yeah, no, yeah, And then 325 00:18:28,760 --> 00:18:30,560 Speaker 2: there was a whole thing where like, I mean, the 326 00:18:30,600 --> 00:18:33,200 Speaker 2: ones who moved to England weren't necessarily treated super great, 327 00:18:33,200 --> 00:18:35,120 Speaker 2: but they weren't enslaved. So that's fucking sound. 328 00:18:35,160 --> 00:18:36,480 Speaker 3: I don't know about a lot of I don't know 329 00:18:36,520 --> 00:18:38,280 Speaker 3: what happened in terms of moving to England, but they 330 00:18:38,320 --> 00:18:40,399 Speaker 3: were like really thriving communities of what were called like 331 00:18:40,440 --> 00:18:42,199 Speaker 3: black loyalists in Canada. 332 00:18:42,280 --> 00:18:47,240 Speaker 2: Cool the US Declaration of Independence, like sub tweets this 333 00:18:47,240 --> 00:18:50,760 Speaker 2: this emancipation gotta get you back off Twitter when it 334 00:18:50,800 --> 00:18:54,280 Speaker 2: says that the king had quote excited domestic insurrections among 335 00:18:54,400 --> 00:18:56,320 Speaker 2: us and there was actually an earlier draft of the 336 00:18:56,320 --> 00:19:00,040 Speaker 2: Declaration of Independence that's more explicit like these motherfuckers I 337 00:19:00,080 --> 00:19:01,800 Speaker 2: had to steal our property or whatever. 338 00:19:01,840 --> 00:19:02,000 Speaker 3: You know. 339 00:19:04,040 --> 00:19:07,720 Speaker 2: So and this isn't because the king was good, to 340 00:19:07,760 --> 00:19:10,440 Speaker 2: be clear, England just wasn't nearly concerned as concerned about 341 00:19:10,440 --> 00:19:12,919 Speaker 2: slavery ensure didn't mind fucking up the economy of the 342 00:19:12,960 --> 00:19:16,120 Speaker 2: colonies have kept them in line. One of the other 343 00:19:16,200 --> 00:19:20,359 Speaker 2: impacts of the Revolutionary War that's really tragic from my 344 00:19:20,400 --> 00:19:22,720 Speaker 2: point of view, is that there's this mighty and really 345 00:19:22,800 --> 00:19:27,320 Speaker 2: neat Iroquois confederacy, the Hodnashone, And this is a confederation 346 00:19:27,400 --> 00:19:31,600 Speaker 2: of six nations whose democracy influenced everything from the American 347 00:19:31,600 --> 00:19:36,280 Speaker 2: Constitution to Karl Marx to modern radicals of all stripes. 348 00:19:37,000 --> 00:19:40,399 Speaker 2: And this confederation was hundreds of years old at the 349 00:19:40,400 --> 00:19:43,440 Speaker 2: time of the Revolutionary War, and it was split by 350 00:19:43,440 --> 00:19:45,840 Speaker 2: the war. Four of the nations sided with the crown 351 00:19:45,920 --> 00:19:48,120 Speaker 2: because the king didn't want to steal their land as bad. 352 00:19:48,480 --> 00:19:50,679 Speaker 2: Two of the nations sided with the colonists because they 353 00:19:50,680 --> 00:19:56,439 Speaker 2: were like closer with the colonists. Basically, all of the 354 00:19:56,480 --> 00:19:59,160 Speaker 2: indigenous nations that fought in the Revolutionary War, they weren't 355 00:19:59,160 --> 00:20:00,879 Speaker 2: doing it because they're like we love the king, or 356 00:20:00,920 --> 00:20:03,280 Speaker 2: like we're patriots, right. They were just fighting for their 357 00:20:03,280 --> 00:20:05,720 Speaker 2: own interests, in their own independence as best they saw fit. 358 00:20:07,680 --> 00:20:11,760 Speaker 2: But in seventeen eighty three, the patriots win the war 359 00:20:12,960 --> 00:20:15,720 Speaker 2: and colonists are like free land and it was bad 360 00:20:16,080 --> 00:20:19,080 Speaker 2: and it was a land crab. And you know what 361 00:20:19,119 --> 00:20:28,920 Speaker 2: else is run on stuff to the Homestead Act. Yes, 362 00:20:29,080 --> 00:20:35,840 Speaker 2: but sponsor of this show, the Homestead Act, go get yourself. 363 00:20:36,800 --> 00:20:40,000 Speaker 3: Really, that's a bad one market sponsorship. 364 00:20:40,400 --> 00:20:44,199 Speaker 2: Oh interesting, Well I already got paid by them to 365 00:20:44,200 --> 00:20:51,000 Speaker 2: do strike. Okay, we are brought to you by strikes 366 00:20:52,080 --> 00:20:55,920 Speaker 2: and not stealing land. Is that better? I liked it? 367 00:20:57,000 --> 00:20:57,400 Speaker 1: Yeah? 368 00:20:58,000 --> 00:21:01,480 Speaker 2: Okay, all right, well here's the ads only for those things. 369 00:21:06,359 --> 00:21:09,960 Speaker 2: And Rebecca, we're not actually going to talk. So this 370 00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:12,359 Speaker 2: is when they all rush into Ohio where many of 371 00:21:12,440 --> 00:21:16,320 Speaker 2: you are probably listening, but we're not going to talk 372 00:21:16,320 --> 00:21:17,160 Speaker 2: about Ohio today. 373 00:21:17,200 --> 00:21:19,600 Speaker 3: Congratulations on the abortion and weed by. 374 00:21:19,520 --> 00:21:23,119 Speaker 2: The way, Oh yeah, fuck yeah, yeah do at the 375 00:21:23,160 --> 00:21:23,600 Speaker 2: same time? 376 00:21:23,680 --> 00:21:27,080 Speaker 3: Well no, absolutely, abortion while you smoke a joint, I know, 377 00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:28,000 Speaker 3: don't smoke the. 378 00:21:27,960 --> 00:21:31,720 Speaker 2: Joint after Yeah, after smoke the joint, and only after 379 00:21:31,720 --> 00:21:36,960 Speaker 2: December seventh, because otherwise we'll be a crime. Why do 380 00:21:37,040 --> 00:21:38,800 Speaker 2: I know that data goes I don't live in Ohio 381 00:21:38,800 --> 00:21:40,920 Speaker 2: and I don't smoke weed. Whatever, I still think it's 382 00:21:40,920 --> 00:21:41,480 Speaker 2: fucking cool. 383 00:21:42,240 --> 00:21:45,560 Speaker 3: We did make that line cooler knowing what day goes 384 00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:46,800 Speaker 3: into effect. Thanks. 385 00:21:46,880 --> 00:21:49,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, I one of my friends lives in Ohio and 386 00:21:49,320 --> 00:21:51,760 Speaker 2: smokes weed, and I was like, holy shit, are you excited? 387 00:21:51,840 --> 00:21:53,560 Speaker 2: And then I was like, wait, don't get excited yet, 388 00:21:54,720 --> 00:21:58,359 Speaker 2: because obviously they don't smoke weed now, but they will. 389 00:21:58,240 --> 00:22:00,719 Speaker 3: Of course December seventh. They will smoke their first year. 390 00:22:01,280 --> 00:22:04,240 Speaker 2: Because we all totally believe in the system of law, 391 00:22:04,320 --> 00:22:06,720 Speaker 2: and no one understands that it's just a cudgel to 392 00:22:06,720 --> 00:22:09,800 Speaker 2: be used against their enemies. Everyone believes in law. But today, 393 00:22:10,680 --> 00:22:13,600 Speaker 2: instead of talking about Ohio, we're going to focused on 394 00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:18,159 Speaker 2: the Black Hills. Is the area around an area around 395 00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:22,600 Speaker 2: Wyoming and the Dakotas which only took like a generation 396 00:22:22,720 --> 00:22:24,320 Speaker 2: or two for the white people to get to from 397 00:22:24,840 --> 00:22:29,480 Speaker 2: Ohio and all that the Black Hills here. Been to 398 00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:34,159 Speaker 2: the Black Hills, I have not. They're really pretty. I 399 00:22:34,240 --> 00:22:37,480 Speaker 2: understand why everyone fought over them. 400 00:22:37,760 --> 00:22:39,960 Speaker 3: I mean, you don't think that that had more to 401 00:22:39,960 --> 00:22:44,560 Speaker 3: do with extractive resources. You think it was this, It 402 00:22:44,600 --> 00:22:47,600 Speaker 3: was at the scenery. It can't have been the scenery. 403 00:22:47,840 --> 00:22:50,080 Speaker 2: Now it's about gold. I'll talk about that later. Yeah. 404 00:22:50,760 --> 00:22:53,120 Speaker 3: Look, I haven't been, but I did watch Deadwood. 405 00:22:53,240 --> 00:22:55,960 Speaker 2: So although there's a lot of fighting before white people 406 00:22:56,000 --> 00:22:58,639 Speaker 2: get there, about who gets to live there, so fair 407 00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:01,480 Speaker 2: kill people fight. 408 00:23:01,880 --> 00:23:02,120 Speaker 4: Yeah. 409 00:23:02,680 --> 00:23:05,360 Speaker 2: The Black Hills are an isolated mountain range where Wyoming 410 00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:07,800 Speaker 2: in South Dakota meet. It got its name from the 411 00:23:07,840 --> 00:23:11,560 Speaker 2: Lakota people, who called it Hissapa or Black Mountains, because 412 00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:13,480 Speaker 2: the pines grow so dense that they appear to be 413 00:23:13,520 --> 00:23:16,320 Speaker 2: black from a distance. It has always been a sacred 414 00:23:16,320 --> 00:23:19,120 Speaker 2: place for the Lakota and for the groups that came 415 00:23:19,160 --> 00:23:22,960 Speaker 2: before them. Lots of folks hung out there in various 416 00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:26,439 Speaker 2: pre colonial history, and they often fought over it. The 417 00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:29,119 Speaker 2: Arakari were there as well as the Cheyenne and the 418 00:23:29,119 --> 00:23:32,240 Speaker 2: Crow and some other folks. And then in seventeen seventy six, 419 00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:35,560 Speaker 2: while well everyone's paying zenent to someone else, it actually 420 00:23:35,640 --> 00:23:38,320 Speaker 2: is completely unrelated thousands of miles away. In seventeen seventy six, 421 00:23:38,400 --> 00:23:43,320 Speaker 2: the Lakota basically kick everyone out and take the Black Hills, 422 00:23:44,040 --> 00:23:46,600 Speaker 2: which sets up an animosity that is going to come 423 00:23:46,680 --> 00:23:51,520 Speaker 2: up a lot later and broadly. The various groups that 424 00:23:51,560 --> 00:23:54,320 Speaker 2: are living there are what are called the Great Plains tribes. 425 00:23:54,680 --> 00:23:57,160 Speaker 2: Some of them are semi nomadic, some are fully nomadic, 426 00:23:57,480 --> 00:24:00,040 Speaker 2: and they rely heavily on hunting. The vast herds of buffet 427 00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:04,159 Speaker 2: flow before the introduction of the horse. They relied on 428 00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:07,760 Speaker 2: dogs with sledges to hale stuff around. Like an Ari 429 00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:10,720 Speaker 2: Kara family would have thirty to forty dogs per family, 430 00:24:10,840 --> 00:24:13,600 Speaker 2: which is just imagine being that rich. 431 00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:17,320 Speaker 3: That's such a wonderful number of dogs. I know you 432 00:24:17,359 --> 00:24:19,160 Speaker 3: did promise me dogs in this episode. 433 00:24:19,280 --> 00:24:20,600 Speaker 2: This is the dogs. Yeah, And I said there was 434 00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:21,679 Speaker 2: gonna be a lot of them, but they weren't going 435 00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:23,520 Speaker 2: to be very important of the story because I was like, 436 00:24:23,520 --> 00:24:26,040 Speaker 2: there's not that many dogs the sound. 437 00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:28,920 Speaker 3: Final to the story. Well, if you have a nomadic 438 00:24:28,960 --> 00:24:32,639 Speaker 3: society and dogs are your your primary pack animal, that's 439 00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:35,480 Speaker 3: a those are very important dogs. I will not let 440 00:24:35,520 --> 00:24:36,720 Speaker 3: you dismiss these dogs. 441 00:24:36,760 --> 00:24:38,840 Speaker 2: It's true, but there are hundreds of years ago by 442 00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:40,639 Speaker 2: the time that we're stuffing talking about. 443 00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:44,280 Speaker 3: Their context it is you're all about the contexts. Are 444 00:24:44,280 --> 00:24:45,680 Speaker 3: contextual dogs. 445 00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:53,040 Speaker 2: Right, contextual dogs. Later they are master horsemen and great planes. 446 00:24:53,119 --> 00:24:56,720 Speaker 2: Tribes are used as the archetypical Indian in White American culture, 447 00:24:57,320 --> 00:25:00,280 Speaker 2: partly because they were really fucking good at fighting US 448 00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:04,120 Speaker 2: military and so they were like around to be at 449 00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:07,440 Speaker 2: war longer, Like I mean, not everyone's been around, right, 450 00:25:07,560 --> 00:25:10,040 Speaker 2: Like one of the other greatest lies that we hear 451 00:25:10,119 --> 00:25:14,320 Speaker 2: is that like that it's done. Everyone's subjugated, it's over 452 00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:17,119 Speaker 2: two lay for decolonization, all that bullshit. 453 00:25:16,800 --> 00:25:18,160 Speaker 1: Right, But. 454 00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:23,240 Speaker 2: These folks, it's part of why they live on in 455 00:25:22,920 --> 00:25:27,840 Speaker 2: the white American imagination and become this like stereotypical reflection 456 00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:31,320 Speaker 2: of all indigenous people in North America. So if there's 457 00:25:31,359 --> 00:25:35,359 Speaker 2: like a thing that you think of, this probably comes 458 00:25:35,359 --> 00:25:38,679 Speaker 2: from the Great Plain Stribes. Most of who we're going 459 00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:40,920 Speaker 2: to talk about today are generally called the Sioux, including 460 00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:43,320 Speaker 2: by a lot of them, but more historically than presently, 461 00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:45,720 Speaker 2: it's an outside name for them and is less in 462 00:25:45,800 --> 00:25:49,199 Speaker 2: use today. There are three branches or subculture of what 463 00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:52,600 Speaker 2: gets called the Sioux. There's the Lakota, the san Tea 464 00:25:52,800 --> 00:25:56,240 Speaker 2: or the Eastern Dakota, and the Yankton or the Western Dakota. 465 00:25:56,280 --> 00:25:59,199 Speaker 2: And each of these groups is further divide into various bands. 466 00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:02,320 Speaker 2: The names is an exonym that comes from Najibwe word 467 00:26:02,359 --> 00:26:06,120 Speaker 2: for little snakes, because it was meant to be mean. 468 00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:09,760 Speaker 2: I believe mostly will be talking about Lakota this week, 469 00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:13,879 Speaker 2: and so I point that out because like, if you 470 00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:15,919 Speaker 2: google a lot of this, you'll have to look for 471 00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:19,880 Speaker 2: like sue stuff, you know, white people didn't really start 472 00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:22,360 Speaker 2: showing up in the Black Hills until the early eighteen hundreds. 473 00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:26,560 Speaker 2: At first, relationships were complicated, but not necessarily super bad 474 00:26:26,560 --> 00:26:28,320 Speaker 2: when there's just like a couple of white people around. 475 00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:28,560 Speaker 1: Right. 476 00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:33,120 Speaker 2: By the eighteen twenties, the US is setting one group 477 00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:35,480 Speaker 2: against the other and hiring folks to help them with 478 00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:38,119 Speaker 2: various raids. And it's not hard to get some of 479 00:26:38,119 --> 00:26:41,679 Speaker 2: these groups to fight each other because they their issues 480 00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:44,720 Speaker 2: with each other are like all pretty legit, you know, 481 00:26:45,680 --> 00:26:48,600 Speaker 2: of course. Yeah. 482 00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:53,040 Speaker 3: And by the eighteen when like a super powerful, you know, 483 00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:57,199 Speaker 3: outside entity comes in and is like making use of that, 484 00:26:57,480 --> 00:26:59,480 Speaker 3: of course there's going to be you know, that's going 485 00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:00,680 Speaker 3: to be a terear situation. 486 00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:05,639 Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, And it like and people are just doing 487 00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:09,040 Speaker 2: what they think is best with the information that they 488 00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:11,080 Speaker 2: have available to them, right, They're like, oh, well, this 489 00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:14,200 Speaker 2: this other group is my main enemy. These fucking white people. 490 00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:17,000 Speaker 2: Help me fight them or like vice, you know. Like 491 00:27:17,800 --> 00:27:20,840 Speaker 2: by the eighteen forties, folks are like, wait, what the fuck, 492 00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:23,520 Speaker 2: We're all like dying of disease. These motherfuckers keep slaughtering 493 00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:25,679 Speaker 2: the ever loving shit out of the Buffalo. This sucks, 494 00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:27,880 Speaker 2: and resistance start. 495 00:27:27,760 --> 00:27:30,040 Speaker 3: Allying with them never actually works out great. 496 00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:36,440 Speaker 2: No, it really really doesn't, especially making treaties with them. 497 00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:40,359 Speaker 2: Not a historically honoring treaty bunch. 498 00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:45,000 Speaker 3: White Americans really really love to make treaties, love to 499 00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:47,200 Speaker 3: break treaties, does the United States? 500 00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:50,399 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like a serial monogamous who loves to cheat. 501 00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:55,159 Speaker 3: Never mind, is it like that, It's like a serial 502 00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:57,080 Speaker 3: monogamous who is also a serial killer. 503 00:27:57,240 --> 00:28:02,880 Speaker 2: Yes much, yes, more, better, better. Yeah. I never thought 504 00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:07,919 Speaker 2: it'd be like, oh, serial killer better better better. Yeah. 505 00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:13,359 Speaker 2: So the Gold Russian Oregon Trail bullshit in the eighteen 506 00:28:13,359 --> 00:28:16,280 Speaker 2: forties saw so many settlers headling west. Is really fucking 507 00:28:16,359 --> 00:28:19,040 Speaker 2: things up, and folks are moving right through their territory. 508 00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:21,600 Speaker 2: There's this eighteen fifty one treaty that, of course the 509 00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:26,560 Speaker 2: US immediately broke, and the Oglala band of the Lakota 510 00:28:26,600 --> 00:28:30,679 Speaker 2: people was particularly not fucking having it. There's one war leader, 511 00:28:31,359 --> 00:28:35,400 Speaker 2: his name's Red Cloud, and in eighteen sixty six he said, 512 00:28:35,480 --> 00:28:38,720 Speaker 2: quote the White Chief comes a soldiers to steal the 513 00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:42,120 Speaker 2: land that they were like considering selling, comes to steal 514 00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:44,840 Speaker 2: before the Indian says yes or no, I will talk 515 00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:46,920 Speaker 2: with you, no more, I will go now, and I 516 00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:49,280 Speaker 2: will fight you as long as I live. I will 517 00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:51,640 Speaker 2: fight you for the last hunting grounds of my people. 518 00:28:53,280 --> 00:28:57,240 Speaker 2: Red Cloud. Yeah, he's not fucking around. He killed the 519 00:28:57,280 --> 00:28:59,680 Speaker 2: head chief of the Oglala Bulbar for being too friendly 520 00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:04,400 Speaker 2: with the invaders. Gottnna do what you gotta do, yep. 521 00:29:05,600 --> 00:29:07,560 Speaker 2: So let's talk about how bad the invaders were. This 522 00:29:07,600 --> 00:29:13,400 Speaker 2: is gonna be my favorite part. Uh, they're really invading Heck, 523 00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:16,000 Speaker 2: for example, you ever heard of a guy named Kit Carson? 524 00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:18,040 Speaker 2: Has yes? 525 00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:18,960 Speaker 3: Heard of that guy? 526 00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:23,480 Speaker 2: So he's not involved here. But I'm gonna tell you 527 00:29:23,560 --> 00:29:27,200 Speaker 2: why I'm gonna. I need to you to understand him, 528 00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:29,640 Speaker 2: to understand the relative morality of some of these invaders. 529 00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:34,000 Speaker 2: He's more involved in the Southwest. Uh, particularly, I believe 530 00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:38,600 Speaker 2: he's involved in murdering and sexually assaulting Tonay people. Kit 531 00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:41,280 Speaker 2: Carson was a Union officer who immediately after the Civil 532 00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:43,280 Speaker 2: War went to go join the Indian Wars and got 533 00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:46,440 Speaker 2: the nickname Indian Killer, which is a bad name and 534 00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:49,720 Speaker 2: if you have it, you should die. He went around 535 00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:52,400 Speaker 2: the Southwest and destroyed everyone's food supplies. That was like 536 00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:54,600 Speaker 2: how he won his quote unquote wars. He was really 537 00:29:54,600 --> 00:29:58,560 Speaker 2: into destroying people's food supplies. He was famous as shit 538 00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:01,920 Speaker 2: as like a dime store novel hero. He's like the 539 00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:06,760 Speaker 2: face of like America fighting in the Indian Wars or whatever. 540 00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:11,040 Speaker 2: The Dney called him long Knives, which is another bad 541 00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:15,960 Speaker 2: nickname to have, and he used to play catch with 542 00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:19,400 Speaker 2: the sever breast of Indigenous women that he's slaughtered. Jesus Christ, 543 00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:24,160 Speaker 2: because American history is a fucking horror movie, you know what. 544 00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:31,880 Speaker 3: Like, I fancy myself a fairly educated person. And as 545 00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:35,440 Speaker 3: soon as you started talking about this about Kit Carson specifically, 546 00:30:35,480 --> 00:30:36,960 Speaker 3: I was like, well, I don't know a lot about 547 00:30:37,040 --> 00:30:40,240 Speaker 3: Kit Carson specifically, but I bet nothing she's gonna tell 548 00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:43,240 Speaker 3: me is gonna shock me. I know about the American 549 00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:46,640 Speaker 3: genocide of and god fucking damn it, no, that is 550 00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:50,040 Speaker 3: actually I mean ges Christ. 551 00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:54,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, And any listener knows that I hate being really 552 00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:58,640 Speaker 2: explicit about some of this kind of stuff. I take 553 00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:03,680 Speaker 2: it very carefully. I think it's worth understanding who these 554 00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:04,520 Speaker 2: motherfuckers are. 555 00:31:04,760 --> 00:31:09,280 Speaker 3: There's I mean there there is like a a level 556 00:31:09,360 --> 00:31:13,600 Speaker 3: of disregard for human life that needs to be understood 557 00:31:13,640 --> 00:31:18,400 Speaker 3: in this situation because you can have you know, but 558 00:31:18,560 --> 00:31:21,600 Speaker 3: because body counts don't tell the full story. But something 559 00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:29,440 Speaker 3: like that is pretty pretty like demonstrative of the mindset 560 00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:37,480 Speaker 3: at work and the just sheer like genocidal fervor at work. 561 00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:41,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely and absolutely does not see people as human. 562 00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:45,160 Speaker 2: There's a park named after him in California. You can 563 00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:50,080 Speaker 2: go to Kit Carson Park. Okay, the reason I'm telling 564 00:31:50,120 --> 00:31:50,600 Speaker 2: you about Kit. 565 00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:53,520 Speaker 3: Carson Jesus, Okay, put that on the on the list. 566 00:31:53,560 --> 00:31:56,040 Speaker 3: After all the Confederate well not after all the Confederate 567 00:31:56,040 --> 00:31:59,320 Speaker 3: monuments are While the Confederate monuments are being melt down, 568 00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:04,240 Speaker 3: maybe there's any other human that that things could be 569 00:32:04,280 --> 00:32:07,880 Speaker 3: named after a wo Kit Kit sounds like a bullshit 570 00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:11,520 Speaker 3: fucking nickname for like a nineteen fifties girl detective, and 571 00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:14,040 Speaker 3: like he's I don't know, it's so likely he's trying 572 00:32:14,040 --> 00:32:19,360 Speaker 3: to be so non threatening and chill, Like I hate. 573 00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:26,480 Speaker 2: That non threatening chill. Yeah, okay, Kit isn't fuck that guy. 574 00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:31,040 Speaker 2: So some of the shit that was happening in the 575 00:32:31,040 --> 00:32:34,120 Speaker 2: Black Hills by the settlers in the army that's supporting them, 576 00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:36,840 Speaker 2: all the murder and rape and murder rape, including of 577 00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:42,680 Speaker 2: an entire camp of Chyenne people, Kit Carson, Kit fucking Carson, 578 00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:45,480 Speaker 2: looked at that and said that the settlers who did 579 00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:51,000 Speaker 2: that were cowards and dogs because of how evil the 580 00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:52,280 Speaker 2: settlers and the Black Hills are. 581 00:32:53,360 --> 00:32:55,120 Speaker 3: I mean, are we sure he wasn't just jealous? 582 00:32:56,080 --> 00:33:02,640 Speaker 2: It's completely possible. But it's like that, how fucking that's 583 00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:06,560 Speaker 2: if this is the moral compass? Like this is why 584 00:33:06,600 --> 00:33:10,320 Speaker 2: I had to explain Kit Carson. It's also worth understanding 585 00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:13,080 Speaker 2: Kit Carson because it's worth understanding that the villain from 586 00:33:13,120 --> 00:33:15,840 Speaker 2: the Saw movies is the archetypical hero of the Indian 587 00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:18,720 Speaker 2: Wars from the American side. I have still not seen 588 00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:20,520 Speaker 2: the Saw movies. It's not my style of thing. 589 00:33:20,920 --> 00:33:23,760 Speaker 3: I'm not gonna watch though, And I know you love context, 590 00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:26,080 Speaker 3: but I'm not gonna watch the Saw movies for context 591 00:33:26,080 --> 00:33:31,680 Speaker 3: for your explanation of Kit Carson no murder. I mean, yeah, 592 00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:36,440 Speaker 3: I'm generally given to understand that people don't come out 593 00:33:36,440 --> 00:33:39,480 Speaker 3: of those movies, you know, with all their parts. 594 00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:45,320 Speaker 2: Yeah. So Red Cloud and a bunch of other folks 595 00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:49,040 Speaker 2: are like, fuck this, We're gonna do a fucking war, 596 00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:53,360 Speaker 2: and it gets called Red Cloud's war. It's not really 597 00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:56,200 Speaker 2: his war. You can't own a war. Also, it's like 598 00:33:56,240 --> 00:33:59,160 Speaker 2: that's like a basically a white imposition to call him 599 00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:01,120 Speaker 2: the leader of the war. There's a lot of leaders. 600 00:34:01,160 --> 00:34:03,000 Speaker 2: It's also it would also be a lie to claim 601 00:34:03,040 --> 00:34:05,040 Speaker 2: it was all equals, right, But it's like a lot 602 00:34:05,080 --> 00:34:09,919 Speaker 2: of complicated different groups working together and fighting a very 603 00:34:10,040 --> 00:34:13,440 Speaker 2: righteous and beautiful war. I mean, well beautiful whatever. It's 604 00:34:13,480 --> 00:34:15,640 Speaker 2: fucking whatever they. 605 00:34:15,520 --> 00:34:18,360 Speaker 3: Do what they were, yeah, doing something that needed to 606 00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:21,439 Speaker 3: be done. And like, I think there's also something where 607 00:34:21,440 --> 00:34:24,560 Speaker 3: you like name a by like naming a war after 608 00:34:24,640 --> 00:34:27,120 Speaker 3: the one guy, where the US can kind of pretend 609 00:34:27,160 --> 00:34:29,360 Speaker 3: that it's smaller than it is, like, oh, it's just 610 00:34:29,440 --> 00:34:31,680 Speaker 3: this guy who has a problem with us. I don't 611 00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:33,399 Speaker 3: know what his deal is. And it's like, no, it's 612 00:34:33,480 --> 00:34:37,640 Speaker 3: all of these people who you have screwed over in 613 00:34:37,719 --> 00:34:41,800 Speaker 3: this just in you know, in this sort of language 614 00:34:41,800 --> 00:34:46,719 Speaker 3: defying way, that are now fighting back, and you're just like, oh, well, 615 00:34:46,760 --> 00:34:49,640 Speaker 3: it's you're trying to like put it on one person, right. 616 00:34:49,719 --> 00:34:52,440 Speaker 2: Red Cloud got a little upset one day after, you know. 617 00:34:53,080 --> 00:34:56,640 Speaker 3: Right, like if people had called the War of Independence 618 00:34:56,920 --> 00:35:01,200 Speaker 3: like and I can't name a single foundation, right, like 619 00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:05,920 Speaker 3: Ben Franklin's war, it would have sounded trivial and silly, right, 620 00:35:05,960 --> 00:35:07,279 Speaker 3: And you. 621 00:35:07,239 --> 00:35:11,520 Speaker 2: Know, and so there are Lakota, Cheyenne and Arapahoe folks 622 00:35:12,160 --> 00:35:14,440 Speaker 2: fighting alongside one another, and they're just like fucking the 623 00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:19,240 Speaker 2: Americans up in Red Clouds War. But if you want 624 00:35:19,600 --> 00:35:30,680 Speaker 2: to go to war, do we Yeah, do we sell? Nope? Nope, nope, 625 00:35:31,360 --> 00:35:40,160 Speaker 2: none of that happened. Here's ads and we're back. So 626 00:35:41,440 --> 00:35:44,480 Speaker 2: the US Army was protecting something called the Bozeman Trail, 627 00:35:44,600 --> 00:35:48,120 Speaker 2: which connected up to the Oregon Trail, and they've just 628 00:35:48,200 --> 00:35:51,120 Speaker 2: built a bunch of forts on Crow Territory, and the 629 00:35:51,160 --> 00:35:54,040 Speaker 2: Crow are generally allied with the US throughout most of 630 00:35:54,080 --> 00:35:57,080 Speaker 2: this because they're sick of the Lakota trying to put 631 00:35:57,080 --> 00:36:01,040 Speaker 2: their territory. Captain William J. Fetterman is in charge of 632 00:36:01,080 --> 00:36:02,920 Speaker 2: a bunch of these guys. I try really hard not 633 00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:04,600 Speaker 2: to be mad at people for their last names, but 634 00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:07,120 Speaker 2: Fetterman is the name of a person who puts people 635 00:36:07,120 --> 00:36:11,400 Speaker 2: in chains and he's a bad guy. 636 00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:15,640 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, that's that's what that means, I guess, yeah, 637 00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:20,160 Speaker 3: or it means featherman. Maybe I'm pretty. 638 00:36:19,960 --> 00:36:23,200 Speaker 2: Sure it's jail guy. I don't know, whatever, I don't know. 639 00:36:23,800 --> 00:36:28,719 Speaker 2: You're not actually responsible for your last name, and like me, killjoy, 640 00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:30,920 Speaker 2: I mean, who would have picked a name anyway, so. 641 00:36:32,640 --> 00:36:34,600 Speaker 3: Charged Unlike you, I didn't pick his name, but it 642 00:36:34,600 --> 00:36:35,320 Speaker 3: sounds like hearth. 643 00:36:36,120 --> 00:36:39,800 Speaker 2: Yeah. So he has no experience in the Indian Wars. 644 00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:42,479 Speaker 2: This guy Fetterman, and he's entirely contemptious of the quote 645 00:36:42,520 --> 00:36:46,040 Speaker 2: unquote savages. At one point he says, give me eighty 646 00:36:46,080 --> 00:36:47,960 Speaker 2: men and I can ride through the whole Sux nation. 647 00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:51,520 Speaker 3: I am so excited for this man to get killed 648 00:36:51,640 --> 00:36:52,320 Speaker 3: so hard? 649 00:36:52,520 --> 00:36:54,440 Speaker 2: Is that? Am I going to get to see this 650 00:36:54,520 --> 00:36:57,000 Speaker 2: man killed so hard? Well, I'll tell you that he 651 00:36:57,040 --> 00:36:59,440 Speaker 2: gets exactly eighty or eighty one men, and then he 652 00:36:59,480 --> 00:37:02,000 Speaker 2: tries to through the whole six nation. I'll tell you 653 00:37:02,040 --> 00:37:06,400 Speaker 2: that much. Does it not work out? So about a 654 00:37:06,480 --> 00:37:11,320 Speaker 2: thousand warriors laid in ambush in the hills, four miles 655 00:37:11,400 --> 00:37:15,200 Speaker 2: away from the enemy. Fort ten folks volunteer to serve 656 00:37:15,239 --> 00:37:19,440 Speaker 2: as bait, evenly split from the various groups involved, including 657 00:37:19,560 --> 00:37:23,560 Speaker 2: and introducing one of the coolest motherfuckers in history, Crazy Horse. 658 00:37:24,680 --> 00:37:24,919 Speaker 3: Yes. 659 00:37:26,080 --> 00:37:30,239 Speaker 2: And meanwhile, there's a wink To, which is a two 660 00:37:30,280 --> 00:37:34,960 Speaker 2: spirit person who gives advice to Red Cloud about the battle, 661 00:37:35,920 --> 00:37:39,320 Speaker 2: saying that in their vision they saw a hundred blue 662 00:37:39,320 --> 00:37:42,920 Speaker 2: Coat soldiers in their hands and this prophecy gives the 663 00:37:43,000 --> 00:37:46,160 Speaker 2: upcoming battle the name the Battle of the Hundred in 664 00:37:46,200 --> 00:37:50,399 Speaker 2: the hands. US sources call it the Fetterman Fight, which is. 665 00:37:50,360 --> 00:37:53,439 Speaker 3: Boring, yeah, much much less good name. 666 00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:57,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, although it was a little bit like kind of 667 00:37:57,200 --> 00:37:58,960 Speaker 2: what we were saying that people say about like Red 668 00:37:58,960 --> 00:38:00,840 Speaker 2: Cloud's war, while he got kind of upset and he 669 00:38:00,920 --> 00:38:03,440 Speaker 2: went to war. That's kind of what happens with Fetterman. 670 00:38:03,520 --> 00:38:08,520 Speaker 2: He's like a little upset, you know. And so the 671 00:38:08,560 --> 00:38:11,719 Speaker 2: ten decoys harassed the detachment of eighty one soldiers, which 672 00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:13,960 Speaker 2: I believe is Fan and his eighty guys. 673 00:38:13,719 --> 00:38:18,080 Speaker 3: Had ass ten people like that is an incredible thing 674 00:38:18,120 --> 00:38:18,960 Speaker 3: to volunteer for. 675 00:38:19,680 --> 00:38:23,400 Speaker 2: They are literally mooning soldiers who are shooting grape shot 676 00:38:23,520 --> 00:38:24,960 Speaker 2: from cannons at them. 677 00:38:25,680 --> 00:38:30,040 Speaker 3: Fucking legend. That is so cool. Good for them, and 678 00:38:30,120 --> 00:38:30,560 Speaker 3: oh my. 679 00:38:30,480 --> 00:38:33,560 Speaker 2: God, And it's like it's so funny too, right, because 680 00:38:33,560 --> 00:38:35,520 Speaker 2: it's like when I first read this, I thought it 681 00:38:35,560 --> 00:38:37,520 Speaker 2: was like, oh, no, we set up as if we're 682 00:38:37,560 --> 00:38:40,359 Speaker 2: easy to attack. Don't attack us. You know. That's because 683 00:38:40,360 --> 00:38:41,920 Speaker 2: that's what I would assume would write. 684 00:38:41,960 --> 00:38:44,759 Speaker 3: I was picturing somebody like running through like, oh no, 685 00:38:44,840 --> 00:38:47,200 Speaker 3: I've twisted my ankle, don't chase me. 686 00:38:47,560 --> 00:38:49,759 Speaker 2: But yeah, yeah, no, they were literally mooning them. 687 00:38:50,040 --> 00:38:50,239 Speaker 1: Yeah. 688 00:38:50,239 --> 00:38:52,880 Speaker 2: They were like, hey, we're harassing you and try to 689 00:38:52,880 --> 00:38:54,600 Speaker 2: get you to follow us so we can kill you. 690 00:38:54,680 --> 00:38:57,360 Speaker 2: And they're like, okay, we're gonna follow and kill you. 691 00:38:57,360 --> 00:39:03,320 Speaker 2: You know, this couldn't possibly be a trap. Yeah, every 692 00:39:03,719 --> 00:39:06,200 Speaker 2: and so the decoys let the soldiers further away from 693 00:39:06,200 --> 00:39:09,959 Speaker 2: any support. Every one of the eighty one soldiers died 694 00:39:09,960 --> 00:39:16,320 Speaker 2: in the ambush. Cool. The indigenous folks had like very 695 00:39:16,400 --> 00:39:18,880 Speaker 2: few guns at this point. They are mostly fighting with 696 00:39:18,920 --> 00:39:24,719 Speaker 2: bows and arrows, spears and clubs against muskets. Fetterman himself 697 00:39:24,800 --> 00:39:29,040 Speaker 2: died when someone slashed his throat. For years they were like, no, 698 00:39:29,560 --> 00:39:33,400 Speaker 2: he shot himself in suicide because he couldn't be killed. 699 00:39:33,400 --> 00:39:35,319 Speaker 2: But he had to, you know, he knew he was 700 00:39:35,360 --> 00:39:38,600 Speaker 2: gonna die, and like the forensics were just like his 701 00:39:38,680 --> 00:39:43,479 Speaker 2: fucking throat was slashed. Like he's not a hero, He's 702 00:39:43,600 --> 00:39:46,840 Speaker 2: just a fucking piece of shit who wasn't very smart, 703 00:39:47,040 --> 00:39:48,720 Speaker 2: who got himself fucking murdered. 704 00:39:49,200 --> 00:39:52,400 Speaker 3: He really got mad when he saw some butts, Yeah, 705 00:39:52,440 --> 00:39:56,080 Speaker 3: and did not at all think perhaps I am being manipulated. 706 00:39:56,520 --> 00:40:00,719 Speaker 2: Yeah, totally. When in doubt of a strained showing you 707 00:40:00,800 --> 00:40:02,400 Speaker 2: their butt. They're manipulating you. 708 00:40:02,600 --> 00:40:05,000 Speaker 3: They're trying to get some kind of reaction from you. 709 00:40:05,000 --> 00:40:10,080 Speaker 2: Think hard about what that kind of reaction might be. Yeah. Also, 710 00:40:10,320 --> 00:40:13,560 Speaker 2: if you ever want to read a what modern bias 711 00:40:13,640 --> 00:40:17,560 Speaker 2: looks like, read the Wikipedia account about the Fetterman Fight, 712 00:40:17,600 --> 00:40:19,480 Speaker 2: because it was clearly written by someone who sees the 713 00:40:19,560 --> 00:40:23,279 Speaker 2: US Army as heroes. And it blows my mind that 714 00:40:23,320 --> 00:40:25,239 Speaker 2: in the year of Our Lord twenty twenty three, there 715 00:40:25,239 --> 00:40:28,200 Speaker 2: are people who think that the white Americans were justified 716 00:40:28,200 --> 00:40:30,400 Speaker 2: in like fucking anything they did during the founding of 717 00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:30,759 Speaker 2: this nation. 718 00:40:31,320 --> 00:40:36,240 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a I I guess I always like think 719 00:40:36,400 --> 00:40:39,280 Speaker 3: that I'm like walking around surrounded by people who don't 720 00:40:39,560 --> 00:40:45,680 Speaker 3: think like the directors of nineteen fifties Westerns. Yeah, but 721 00:40:46,320 --> 00:40:49,160 Speaker 3: I guess I guess that's who's around me, or at 722 00:40:49,239 --> 00:40:50,799 Speaker 3: least since who's editing Wikipedia. 723 00:40:52,040 --> 00:40:52,279 Speaker 1: Well. 724 00:40:52,320 --> 00:40:54,680 Speaker 2: And the justification is that a lot of this is 725 00:40:54,719 --> 00:40:59,320 Speaker 2: happening on Crow Territory where the rather than Lakota territory. 726 00:40:59,560 --> 00:41:03,000 Speaker 2: But I'm like, people are resisting colonization. A bunch of 727 00:41:03,040 --> 00:41:07,280 Speaker 2: different indigenous nations are coming together resist colonization and destroy 728 00:41:07,360 --> 00:41:09,719 Speaker 2: people who are don't see them as human. 729 00:41:09,960 --> 00:41:12,120 Speaker 3: Yeah, and if the justification involves the fact that this 730 00:41:12,200 --> 00:41:14,920 Speaker 3: is on Crow territory, I'm going to need that justification 731 00:41:14,960 --> 00:41:17,799 Speaker 3: to be supported by a detailed account of how the 732 00:41:17,880 --> 00:41:21,720 Speaker 3: US Army treated the Crow. Yeah, and I'm gonna guess 733 00:41:21,719 --> 00:41:23,640 Speaker 3: that that doesn't support that justification. 734 00:41:24,120 --> 00:41:26,040 Speaker 2: Well, during a lot of this, the Crow are the 735 00:41:26,080 --> 00:41:32,239 Speaker 2: allies of the US government. Okay, but because of but 736 00:41:32,280 --> 00:41:35,480 Speaker 2: I actually I only know about specific Crow scouts. I 737 00:41:35,520 --> 00:41:38,840 Speaker 2: actually don't know larger and I'm really not trying to 738 00:41:38,880 --> 00:41:42,160 Speaker 2: paint you know, entire groups of people with brushes and. 739 00:41:42,200 --> 00:41:45,080 Speaker 3: This, sure, And I mean I'm just saying, like, yeah, 740 00:41:45,120 --> 00:41:48,360 Speaker 3: in the long term, painting the United States is just 741 00:41:48,440 --> 00:41:51,120 Speaker 3: at with thet the best interests of the Crow at heart. 742 00:41:52,040 --> 00:41:53,360 Speaker 3: Sounds pretty suspect to me. 743 00:41:53,560 --> 00:41:59,040 Speaker 2: Absolutely. Anyhow, Red Clouds War, which Red Cloud wasn't in 744 00:41:59,080 --> 00:42:00,799 Speaker 2: charge of, just was one of people in charge of. 745 00:42:01,600 --> 00:42:03,640 Speaker 2: A ton of badass motherfuckers are up in this, like 746 00:42:03,719 --> 00:42:07,279 Speaker 2: Crazy Horse, a guy named Spotted Tail, American Horse. But 747 00:42:07,960 --> 00:42:11,440 Speaker 2: several of these badass motherfuckers later become sellout motherfuckers by 748 00:42:11,440 --> 00:42:20,319 Speaker 2: most accounts. Unfortunately, it's complicated everywhere always Shortly thereafter, during 749 00:42:20,360 --> 00:42:22,279 Speaker 2: the midst of this war, that the Federman fight doesn't 750 00:42:22,360 --> 00:42:25,720 Speaker 2: end that war, right, but it is the greatest loss 751 00:42:25,760 --> 00:42:28,359 Speaker 2: in the Indian wars in US history up to that point. 752 00:42:28,400 --> 00:42:29,200 Speaker 2: But don't worry. 753 00:42:29,560 --> 00:42:31,919 Speaker 3: Rarely can you end a war by killing eighty one 754 00:42:32,000 --> 00:42:36,720 Speaker 3: extremely dumb motherfuckers. Yeah, even as satisfying as it may. 755 00:42:36,600 --> 00:42:42,560 Speaker 2: Be, Well one, don't worry. Lakota warriors and some other 756 00:42:42,560 --> 00:42:44,200 Speaker 2: folks are going to kill an even greater number of 757 00:42:44,320 --> 00:42:49,319 Speaker 2: US soldiers fantastic the reasonably near future. But also they're 758 00:42:49,320 --> 00:42:54,000 Speaker 2: going to win this war spoiler. Shortly thereafter, the soldiers 759 00:42:54,040 --> 00:42:56,759 Speaker 2: get given breech loaders instead of muzzleloaders, and this does 760 00:42:56,840 --> 00:42:59,839 Speaker 2: fuck up the tactics of the indigenous folks because one 761 00:42:59,840 --> 00:43:02,480 Speaker 2: of their main tactics is to rush before they can reload, 762 00:43:02,520 --> 00:43:06,160 Speaker 2: so you only have to suffer one volley, right, And 763 00:43:07,040 --> 00:43:10,200 Speaker 2: with breech loaders, they're shooting too fast, and so they 764 00:43:10,239 --> 00:43:15,560 Speaker 2: are two different attacks on forts, and both these attacks fail. 765 00:43:16,239 --> 00:43:18,480 Speaker 2: So the Indigenous nations go back to doing what their 766 00:43:18,520 --> 00:43:21,560 Speaker 2: best at, which is guerrilla attacks. And the US realized 767 00:43:21,600 --> 00:43:24,400 Speaker 2: they calculated it would take them twenty thousand soldiers to 768 00:43:24,440 --> 00:43:30,040 Speaker 2: put down this group of indigenous more than eighty Yeah, 769 00:43:30,239 --> 00:43:33,000 Speaker 2: a little bit more in eighty, so the US sued 770 00:43:33,040 --> 00:43:35,600 Speaker 2: for peace. They were like, we can't do that, we 771 00:43:36,360 --> 00:43:40,759 Speaker 2: give up, and Red Cloud was like, I'm not going 772 00:43:40,800 --> 00:43:43,960 Speaker 2: to fucking meet you unless you give up all, unless 773 00:43:43,960 --> 00:43:48,680 Speaker 2: you abandon these three forts. So the US abandoned those forts. 774 00:43:49,960 --> 00:43:52,640 Speaker 3: Nice, that's like the concession before he'll even come to 775 00:43:52,680 --> 00:43:53,080 Speaker 3: the table. 776 00:43:53,200 --> 00:43:56,120 Speaker 2: Yep, before all you come to the table. So then 777 00:43:56,440 --> 00:43:58,600 Speaker 2: again before they come to the table, the warriors went 778 00:43:58,640 --> 00:44:02,920 Speaker 2: and burned those forts to the fucking round. Fuck yeah, 779 00:44:02,960 --> 00:44:06,040 Speaker 2: And this part is important to our story. The US 780 00:44:06,120 --> 00:44:08,560 Speaker 2: government sued for peace in eighteen sixty eight in the 781 00:44:08,600 --> 00:44:11,840 Speaker 2: Treaty of eighteen sixty eight. They're really original namers, the 782 00:44:11,920 --> 00:44:14,200 Speaker 2: kind of people come up with Fetterman Fight and Red 783 00:44:14,239 --> 00:44:16,400 Speaker 2: Cloud War. Are going to call it the Treaty of 784 00:44:16,440 --> 00:44:19,880 Speaker 2: eighteen sixty eight. Sometimes this is called the Treaty of 785 00:44:19,880 --> 00:44:22,480 Speaker 2: Fort Laramie because it was signed at Fort Laramie. 786 00:44:23,080 --> 00:44:25,200 Speaker 3: That's what they called it on the TV show Deadwood, 787 00:44:25,280 --> 00:44:27,480 Speaker 3: where it which is okay, where most of what I 788 00:44:27,480 --> 00:44:29,360 Speaker 3: know about the Black Hills unfortunately comes. 789 00:44:29,160 --> 00:44:33,399 Speaker 2: From I didn't watch that, and sometimes I actually try 790 00:44:33,400 --> 00:44:35,399 Speaker 2: to watch this stuff. That's like, here's what mostly people 791 00:44:35,480 --> 00:44:36,520 Speaker 2: say about the following thing. 792 00:44:36,560 --> 00:44:36,759 Speaker 1: You know. 793 00:44:38,800 --> 00:44:43,720 Speaker 2: On November sixth, eighteen sixty eight, Red Cloud signed this treaty, 794 00:44:45,000 --> 00:44:50,919 Speaker 2: and it guaranteed indigenous groups quote, absolute and undisputed use 795 00:44:50,960 --> 00:44:54,279 Speaker 2: of the Great Sioux Reservation. No persons shall ever be 796 00:44:54,360 --> 00:44:57,759 Speaker 2: permitted to pass, over, settle upon, or reside in territory 797 00:44:57,800 --> 00:45:01,600 Speaker 2: described in this article, or without consent of the Indians 798 00:45:01,640 --> 00:45:04,880 Speaker 2: passed through the same. No treaty for the secession of 799 00:45:04,920 --> 00:45:08,520 Speaker 2: any portion or part of the reservation herein described shall 800 00:45:08,560 --> 00:45:11,800 Speaker 2: be of any validity or force unless executed and signed 801 00:45:11,840 --> 00:45:14,560 Speaker 2: by at least three fourths of the adult male Indians 802 00:45:14,880 --> 00:45:18,879 Speaker 2: occupying or interested in the same. So it's a very 803 00:45:19,680 --> 00:45:26,440 Speaker 2: clear treaty. It is a this is yours, it's yours now. 804 00:45:26,520 --> 00:45:31,880 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's unambiguous, really specific and clear. It would be 805 00:45:32,000 --> 00:45:34,960 Speaker 3: very obvious if somebody were to break the terms of 806 00:45:34,960 --> 00:45:35,560 Speaker 3: that treaty. 807 00:45:35,840 --> 00:45:38,960 Speaker 2: Well, unfortunately it's stayed intact ever since. And that's the 808 00:45:39,880 --> 00:45:42,239 Speaker 2: four parter good thing in the. 809 00:45:42,239 --> 00:45:45,759 Speaker 4: US keeps its promises, huh, which actually gets into some 810 00:45:45,800 --> 00:45:48,480 Speaker 4: of this interesting I'll probably end up talking about more 811 00:45:48,560 --> 00:45:53,520 Speaker 4: this more next week, but obviously i'm buying large using 812 00:45:53,719 --> 00:45:55,719 Speaker 4: you know, I'm referring to people as indigenous people rather 813 00:45:55,719 --> 00:45:59,400 Speaker 4: than like Indians, for example, right, obviously, except when I'm 814 00:45:59,480 --> 00:45:59,960 Speaker 4: quoting things. 815 00:46:00,360 --> 00:46:03,040 Speaker 2: There are arguments the American Indian Movement aim which will 816 00:46:03,040 --> 00:46:05,800 Speaker 2: be a major subject of next week. There are arguments 817 00:46:05,840 --> 00:46:07,880 Speaker 2: that people made at various points where they're like, you 818 00:46:07,880 --> 00:46:11,360 Speaker 2: know what, I actually prefer that word. And one of 819 00:46:11,400 --> 00:46:14,080 Speaker 2: the reasons that sometimes people preferred that word again, I'm 820 00:46:14,080 --> 00:46:16,200 Speaker 2: talking about the nineteen sixties, nineteen seventies, I'm not trying 821 00:46:16,200 --> 00:46:19,360 Speaker 2: to make an argument for it now, was specifically around 822 00:46:19,440 --> 00:46:21,680 Speaker 2: a lot of their fights were around the legal ees 823 00:46:21,760 --> 00:46:23,839 Speaker 2: of these various documents, and they were like, we need 824 00:46:23,880 --> 00:46:26,320 Speaker 2: to make it clear that we are the group of 825 00:46:26,360 --> 00:46:28,240 Speaker 2: people who sign this document. 826 00:46:28,719 --> 00:46:33,640 Speaker 3: Right, are we are who were supposedly granted these right 827 00:46:33,840 --> 00:46:35,600 Speaker 3: these concessions and these rights. 828 00:46:35,719 --> 00:46:35,959 Speaker 2: Right? 829 00:46:37,280 --> 00:46:39,440 Speaker 1: But that is y. 830 00:46:39,600 --> 00:46:43,160 Speaker 2: You know, I don't have a I have no interest 831 00:46:43,200 --> 00:46:45,160 Speaker 2: in having an opinion on that. It does not matter. 832 00:46:45,200 --> 00:46:48,000 Speaker 2: You know, whatever folks decide to go with, that's what 833 00:46:48,080 --> 00:46:50,000 Speaker 2: I'm going with, and buy and large and you know, 834 00:46:50,040 --> 00:46:52,200 Speaker 2: in the United States, I tend to use indigenous peoples 835 00:46:52,239 --> 00:46:54,200 Speaker 2: and then like a lot of people in Canada use 836 00:46:54,280 --> 00:46:58,720 Speaker 2: First Nations peoples and you know whatever. So the indigenous 837 00:46:58,719 --> 00:47:01,680 Speaker 2: people who sign this condes this treaty. They're also supposed 838 00:47:01,719 --> 00:47:04,840 Speaker 2: to be get given clothes, food, education, a sawmill and 839 00:47:04,880 --> 00:47:08,439 Speaker 2: a gristmill, a warehouse, a doctor, an instruction in white 840 00:47:08,440 --> 00:47:13,520 Speaker 2: man's agriculture and technology. This last part is part of 841 00:47:13,600 --> 00:47:16,320 Speaker 2: the US policy to like civilize the indigenous people. 842 00:47:16,480 --> 00:47:20,919 Speaker 3: Right, right, but the forest assimilation right. 843 00:47:22,920 --> 00:47:26,680 Speaker 2: In exchange, the Lakota agree to withdraw opposition to the 844 00:47:26,680 --> 00:47:31,080 Speaker 2: construction of the railroad and other roads elsewhere, you know, 845 00:47:31,560 --> 00:47:34,760 Speaker 2: and wouldn't lead raids out from their territories against settlers. 846 00:47:36,719 --> 00:47:39,799 Speaker 2: And this treaty snuck in just under the wire. By 847 00:47:39,840 --> 00:47:42,319 Speaker 2: eighteen seventy one, the US passed a rider to a 848 00:47:42,320 --> 00:47:46,200 Speaker 2: bill that said, quote hereafter, no Indian nation or tribe 849 00:47:46,200 --> 00:47:48,920 Speaker 2: within the United States shall be acknowledged or recognized as 850 00:47:48,920 --> 00:47:51,960 Speaker 2: an independent nation, tribe, or power with whom the United 851 00:47:52,000 --> 00:47:57,279 Speaker 2: States may contract by treaty. This was when they were like, no, 852 00:47:57,719 --> 00:48:01,759 Speaker 2: you are all fucking ours, right, you know, we do 853 00:48:01,880 --> 00:48:05,840 Speaker 2: not respect anyone else to have any I don't like 854 00:48:06,239 --> 00:48:07,000 Speaker 2: government very. 855 00:48:06,960 --> 00:48:11,640 Speaker 3: Much, so well, yeah, it's bad. I mean, just I 856 00:48:11,680 --> 00:48:15,560 Speaker 3: think based on the conversation we've been having for the 857 00:48:15,640 --> 00:48:17,920 Speaker 3: last hour, so I think I'm ready to say the 858 00:48:17,960 --> 00:48:19,000 Speaker 3: government is bad. 859 00:48:19,440 --> 00:48:23,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, the America government is not actually overall a force 860 00:48:23,520 --> 00:48:26,160 Speaker 2: for good. I hate to you know, people don't get 861 00:48:26,160 --> 00:48:29,719 Speaker 2: real mad about that now whatever. So Red Cloud he 862 00:48:29,800 --> 00:48:32,200 Speaker 2: signs this, but he and some of the other folks, 863 00:48:32,480 --> 00:48:35,959 Speaker 2: they're kind of defeated after this. They like he goes 864 00:48:36,000 --> 00:48:39,080 Speaker 2: east in eighteen seventy and he just sees how many 865 00:48:39,160 --> 00:48:43,040 Speaker 2: fucking white people there are and he's like, oh fuck, 866 00:48:43,640 --> 00:48:49,560 Speaker 2: we're fucked, like we can't and he never again goes 867 00:48:49,600 --> 00:48:52,560 Speaker 2: back to war and he mostly starts playing ball with 868 00:48:52,600 --> 00:48:54,680 Speaker 2: the invaders, although he's still got some good moments of 869 00:48:54,719 --> 00:48:56,799 Speaker 2: resistance in him. And it's complicated. I'm not trying to 870 00:48:56,800 --> 00:49:01,040 Speaker 2: be like, well whatever, I can't sit my fucking answer. 871 00:49:01,200 --> 00:49:02,799 Speaker 2: Just did this shit. They were the other side of this, 872 00:49:02,880 --> 00:49:07,880 Speaker 2: so whatever, you know. Meanwhile, the guy in charge of 873 00:49:07,920 --> 00:49:09,680 Speaker 2: the reservation system, as best as I can tell, his 874 00:49:09,719 --> 00:49:13,240 Speaker 2: guy named Francis Walker, and he said that the goal 875 00:49:13,280 --> 00:49:16,920 Speaker 2: of the reservation system was to reduce quote the wild 876 00:49:17,000 --> 00:49:21,560 Speaker 2: beasts to the condition of supplicants for charity Jesus, like, 877 00:49:22,040 --> 00:49:27,120 Speaker 2: not even about assimilation. It is about making them no 878 00:49:27,200 --> 00:49:33,880 Speaker 2: longer have agency. Yeah, so the Lakota and other flash 879 00:49:34,440 --> 00:49:36,759 Speaker 2: I just I don't know. 880 00:49:36,960 --> 00:49:39,680 Speaker 3: I again, I really thought that, like, oh well, I 881 00:49:39,719 --> 00:49:42,160 Speaker 3: know this stuff. I know how horrible this was. But 882 00:49:42,280 --> 00:49:45,560 Speaker 3: like occasionally somebody will just like say something, not even occasionally, 883 00:49:45,680 --> 00:49:49,080 Speaker 3: seems like constantly, you know, people will just fucking say 884 00:49:49,120 --> 00:49:49,759 Speaker 3: things like. 885 00:49:49,680 --> 00:49:54,680 Speaker 2: That, yeah yeah, and people in power will say things 886 00:49:54,719 --> 00:49:56,600 Speaker 2: like that, yeah right. That's the thing. 887 00:49:56,640 --> 00:50:00,040 Speaker 3: This wasn't like some crank who's like, I don't I 888 00:50:00,040 --> 00:50:03,279 Speaker 3: don't think that we should treat people well. This is 889 00:50:03,320 --> 00:50:06,520 Speaker 3: like the guy who's in charge of the reservation system Jesus. 890 00:50:06,560 --> 00:50:08,239 Speaker 2: As best as I can tell, I like spent a 891 00:50:08,280 --> 00:50:11,239 Speaker 2: while trying to figure out I read the quote and 892 00:50:11,280 --> 00:50:13,000 Speaker 2: then try to infer from context and then try to 893 00:50:13,000 --> 00:50:14,520 Speaker 2: like google around it a lot because the quote is 894 00:50:14,560 --> 00:50:17,880 Speaker 2: so affecting. But it wasn't entirely clear. That was my 895 00:50:17,960 --> 00:50:21,960 Speaker 2: best guess as the person's job who said it. But 896 00:50:22,800 --> 00:50:26,160 Speaker 2: still they've got this treaty of eighteen sixty eight, and 897 00:50:26,200 --> 00:50:29,160 Speaker 2: the Lakota and other folks are like sort of sat 898 00:50:29,200 --> 00:50:31,040 Speaker 2: for you know, they're like, Okay, we have the reservation, 899 00:50:31,080 --> 00:50:33,640 Speaker 2: we have sovereignty, and we've got the Black Hills. You know, 900 00:50:34,120 --> 00:50:38,960 Speaker 2: this is very important to us. But Miriam, do you 901 00:50:38,960 --> 00:50:41,320 Speaker 2: ever think about like, what if white people wanted the hills? 902 00:50:43,239 --> 00:50:45,680 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean white people usually get what they want, right, 903 00:50:45,880 --> 00:50:47,319 Speaker 3: that's how that goes. 904 00:50:47,440 --> 00:50:50,000 Speaker 2: Huh. Yeah, They're like, well, why can't we have the 905 00:50:50,080 --> 00:50:52,200 Speaker 2: hills even though we just signed this treaty because we 906 00:50:52,239 --> 00:50:54,320 Speaker 2: lost a war, even. 907 00:50:54,160 --> 00:50:57,080 Speaker 3: Though yeah, even though we literally just said you can 908 00:50:57,160 --> 00:50:58,799 Speaker 3: have that and we won't try to take it. 909 00:50:59,200 --> 00:50:59,359 Speaker 1: Right. 910 00:51:00,480 --> 00:51:05,080 Speaker 2: So, six years later, like not a generation later, not 911 00:51:05,200 --> 00:51:10,680 Speaker 2: half a generation later. Six years later, enter onto stage 912 00:51:11,560 --> 00:51:12,840 Speaker 2: Colonel George Custer. 913 00:51:14,560 --> 00:51:17,160 Speaker 3: Well, I am excited for how this ends, but I'm 914 00:51:17,200 --> 00:51:18,960 Speaker 3: not excited for what's going to happen. First. 915 00:51:19,040 --> 00:51:24,319 Speaker 2: Oh, yeah, he's a dick. In eighteen seventy four, he 916 00:51:24,400 --> 00:51:27,120 Speaker 2: leads an expedition into the sovereign territory of the Lakota 917 00:51:27,160 --> 00:51:29,960 Speaker 2: to confirm rumors that there's gold, and he's like, Yep, 918 00:51:30,960 --> 00:51:36,319 Speaker 2: there's gold. George Custer is such a piece of shit 919 00:51:36,840 --> 00:51:40,320 Speaker 2: that a superior officer once said about him. The year prior, 920 00:51:40,400 --> 00:51:43,799 Speaker 2: eighteen seventy three, a superior officer said about him that 921 00:51:43,840 --> 00:51:48,080 Speaker 2: he was quote a cold blooded, untruthful, and unprincipled man, 922 00:51:48,200 --> 00:51:51,320 Speaker 2: universally despised by all the officers of his regiment. 923 00:51:52,600 --> 00:51:55,080 Speaker 3: Okay, so why is He'm like, why is he allowed 924 00:51:55,080 --> 00:51:56,440 Speaker 3: to be in charge of anything? 925 00:51:57,320 --> 00:52:01,560 Speaker 5: I argue, baby, I just I mean, I love that, 926 00:52:01,640 --> 00:52:04,120 Speaker 5: like ninety percent of the people that you've like, of, 927 00:52:04,160 --> 00:52:06,560 Speaker 5: like the genocidal white people you've talked about so far, 928 00:52:06,800 --> 00:52:09,400 Speaker 5: there's like somebody standing right behind them going like, we 929 00:52:09,440 --> 00:52:11,960 Speaker 5: all hate this piece of shit. And it's then stop 930 00:52:12,040 --> 00:52:16,000 Speaker 5: giving him guns and people to command, totally, totally, and 931 00:52:16,000 --> 00:52:18,279 Speaker 5: we're going to talk about Oh, we'll get to it. 932 00:52:19,800 --> 00:52:19,880 Speaker 1: Uh. 933 00:52:20,040 --> 00:52:21,600 Speaker 2: George Custer, you will be shocked to know is a 934 00:52:21,680 --> 00:52:25,560 Speaker 2: huge proponent of the Indigenous people aren't human theory, and 935 00:52:25,640 --> 00:52:28,000 Speaker 2: he was the He was the kind of guy who 936 00:52:28,040 --> 00:52:31,239 Speaker 2: would say shit like I don't know what the Prime 937 00:52:31,239 --> 00:52:33,600 Speaker 2: Minister of Israel says about Palestinian people in the Year 938 00:52:33,600 --> 00:52:35,719 Speaker 2: of a Lord twenty twenty three, not that anyone would 939 00:52:35,760 --> 00:52:37,320 Speaker 2: draw historical parallels. 940 00:52:37,600 --> 00:52:41,440 Speaker 3: I thought we agreed that history doesn't repeat or rhyme 941 00:52:41,680 --> 00:52:44,479 Speaker 3: or or do any of those things that it does. 942 00:52:44,840 --> 00:52:50,080 Speaker 2: No, totally not. So miners everywhere are like, we need 943 00:52:50,120 --> 00:52:53,399 Speaker 2: to get the fuck into those hills, Like there's gold there. 944 00:52:53,560 --> 00:52:56,880 Speaker 2: I have a god given right to steal all of 945 00:52:56,920 --> 00:52:59,399 Speaker 2: the gold and kill everyone who's between me and it, 946 00:52:59,800 --> 00:53:00,239 Speaker 2: you know. 947 00:53:01,520 --> 00:53:02,800 Speaker 3: And only logical. 948 00:53:03,160 --> 00:53:06,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, and this is actually one of the only interesting 949 00:53:06,880 --> 00:53:08,439 Speaker 2: to me. I don't know, it's like the first time 950 00:53:08,440 --> 00:53:11,759 Speaker 2: that settlement happened in the eastern direction, like because it 951 00:53:11,800 --> 00:53:14,320 Speaker 2: was like people who had gone gold rushing out west 952 00:53:14,400 --> 00:53:15,759 Speaker 2: were like, oh, there's gold in the middle of the 953 00:53:15,800 --> 00:53:18,200 Speaker 2: country too. They like swung back into the middle of 954 00:53:18,239 --> 00:53:18,720 Speaker 2: the country. 955 00:53:19,320 --> 00:53:24,080 Speaker 3: Ah, that is interesting, Yeah, that is interesting. Don't undersell 956 00:53:24,120 --> 00:53:25,120 Speaker 3: your interesting facts. 957 00:53:25,200 --> 00:53:28,920 Speaker 2: Yeah. So miners started gathering in towns like wagons are 958 00:53:29,080 --> 00:53:33,600 Speaker 2: getting people are like lining up right and ready to pillage. 959 00:53:34,000 --> 00:53:36,879 Speaker 2: But the US had at the moment, the US had 960 00:53:36,920 --> 00:53:40,040 Speaker 2: troops stationed to keep them out of the hills in 961 00:53:40,160 --> 00:53:44,359 Speaker 2: order to keep them honoring the treaty. And the US 962 00:53:44,520 --> 00:53:49,640 Speaker 2: was like, well, we should settle this properly. We should 963 00:53:49,640 --> 00:53:54,280 Speaker 2: buy all the land. And so they offered five million dollars, 964 00:53:54,320 --> 00:53:57,360 Speaker 2: which is one hundred and forty million dollars in today's money, 965 00:53:58,000 --> 00:54:02,440 Speaker 2: and the indigenous folk were like fuck no. Sitting bowl 966 00:54:02,640 --> 00:54:06,920 Speaker 2: of the hunk, Papa Lakota said, quote, we want to 967 00:54:06,920 --> 00:54:09,239 Speaker 2: know white men here. The Black hills belong to me. 968 00:54:09,640 --> 00:54:12,080 Speaker 2: If the whites tried to take them, I will fight. 969 00:54:12,840 --> 00:54:14,640 Speaker 2: And he said he would not sell even a pinch 970 00:54:14,680 --> 00:54:20,280 Speaker 2: of dust to the Americans. Good call. Yeah, crazy horse. 971 00:54:20,520 --> 00:54:24,000 Speaker 2: Who if I ever like go revisit this, I'm just 972 00:54:24,040 --> 00:54:25,879 Speaker 2: going to a solid crazy horse thing because he seems 973 00:54:25,920 --> 00:54:28,520 Speaker 2: really interesting as a person. He was a really quiet 974 00:54:28,600 --> 00:54:33,120 Speaker 2: reserved guy. Yeah, totally, and so so crazy Horses. Just 975 00:54:33,120 --> 00:54:36,280 Speaker 2: a quiet reserved guy who like wouldn't sing and dance, 976 00:54:36,360 --> 00:54:38,680 Speaker 2: like wouldn't participate in all this stuff. He was always 977 00:54:38,719 --> 00:54:40,399 Speaker 2: really nice to everyone, but it was just a little 978 00:54:40,400 --> 00:54:44,240 Speaker 2: bit withdrawn you know. It's fucking cool. I really like him. 979 00:54:45,400 --> 00:54:47,640 Speaker 2: He and so he's generally pretty quiet. But he said 980 00:54:47,640 --> 00:54:50,640 Speaker 2: about this quote, one does not sell the land on 981 00:54:50,680 --> 00:54:57,000 Speaker 2: which the people walk, and the resistant chiefs promised that 982 00:54:57,160 --> 00:54:59,880 Speaker 2: any chief who sold the Black Hills would be killed. 983 00:55:00,640 --> 00:55:04,000 Speaker 2: So Red Red Cloud and Spotted Tail are like they're 984 00:55:04,080 --> 00:55:06,360 Speaker 2: thinking about it. They're like, oh no, maybe you know. 985 00:55:06,640 --> 00:55:08,560 Speaker 2: And then they were like, oh, we don't want to 986 00:55:08,600 --> 00:55:08,920 Speaker 2: sell it. 987 00:55:10,239 --> 00:55:13,520 Speaker 3: We've just been given a pressing counteroffer. 988 00:55:13,920 --> 00:55:17,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, wherein we don't get murdered. Yeah, And it's like 989 00:55:17,640 --> 00:55:22,239 Speaker 2: hard to say exactly my money based on everything else 990 00:55:22,280 --> 00:55:24,120 Speaker 2: I read is that like Red Cloud was a little 991 00:55:24,120 --> 00:55:25,719 Speaker 2: bit more on the level and Spotted Tail was a 992 00:55:25,760 --> 00:55:28,799 Speaker 2: little bit less on the level at this point. But well, 993 00:55:28,800 --> 00:55:32,040 Speaker 2: we'll get more into their stuff. So Red Cloud and 994 00:55:32,040 --> 00:55:34,640 Speaker 2: Spotted Tail are like, now, we're not fucking signing. And 995 00:55:34,680 --> 00:55:36,400 Speaker 2: Crazy Horse had another really good quote. I'm just going 996 00:55:36,440 --> 00:55:39,880 Speaker 2: to stick in here because I like it. Quote. We 997 00:55:39,960 --> 00:55:41,759 Speaker 2: did not ask you white men to come here. The 998 00:55:41,800 --> 00:55:44,160 Speaker 2: Great Spirit gave us this country as a home you 999 00:55:44,200 --> 00:55:46,919 Speaker 2: had yours. We did not interfere with you. The Great 1000 00:55:46,960 --> 00:55:48,920 Speaker 2: Spirit gave us plenty of land to live on the 1001 00:55:49,239 --> 00:55:51,960 Speaker 2: and buffalo deer and antelope and other game. But you 1002 00:55:52,000 --> 00:55:54,000 Speaker 2: have come here. You are taking my land from me. 1003 00:55:54,080 --> 00:55:55,879 Speaker 2: You are killing off our game. So it is hard 1004 00:55:55,880 --> 00:55:58,319 Speaker 2: for us to live. Now. You tell us to work 1005 00:55:58,360 --> 00:56:00,600 Speaker 2: for a living, but the Great Spirit didn't make us 1006 00:56:00,640 --> 00:56:03,279 Speaker 2: to work, but to live by hunting. You white men 1007 00:56:03,320 --> 00:56:05,800 Speaker 2: can work if you want to. We do not interfere 1008 00:56:05,840 --> 00:56:08,480 Speaker 2: with you. And again you say, why do you not 1009 00:56:08,520 --> 00:56:12,560 Speaker 2: become civilized? We do not want your civilization. We would 1010 00:56:12,600 --> 00:56:17,040 Speaker 2: live as our fathers did and their fathers before them. 1011 00:56:17,239 --> 00:56:23,839 Speaker 2: Fuck yeah, yeah, no fucking notes, So the indigenous people 1012 00:56:23,880 --> 00:56:28,080 Speaker 2: wouldn't sell. President Grant was like, fine, I'll withdraw all 1013 00:56:28,120 --> 00:56:30,239 Speaker 2: my troops that are protecting you from settlers, and I'll 1014 00:56:30,280 --> 00:56:33,560 Speaker 2: let the settlers do the work, and then he got 1015 00:56:33,560 --> 00:56:36,200 Speaker 2: ready to wage a war because he had to go 1016 00:56:36,239 --> 00:56:39,960 Speaker 2: protect those settlers too. You know. As for how that went, 1017 00:56:40,680 --> 00:56:45,319 Speaker 2: we'll talk about it on Wednesday. Spoiler alert, it does 1018 00:56:45,360 --> 00:56:47,440 Speaker 2: not go well for Custer personally. 1019 00:56:48,760 --> 00:56:51,120 Speaker 1: That was such a cool quote you read a second ago, though, 1020 00:56:51,160 --> 00:56:52,880 Speaker 1: like I want to go Yeah, I want to go 1021 00:56:52,960 --> 00:56:55,680 Speaker 1: back to it because it was really fucking cool. Will 1022 00:56:55,719 --> 00:56:58,719 Speaker 1: you read it again, like it just resonates. 1023 00:56:59,000 --> 00:57:01,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a crazy horse quote. We did not ask 1024 00:57:01,600 --> 00:57:03,600 Speaker 2: you white men to come here. The Great Spirit gave 1025 00:57:03,680 --> 00:57:05,799 Speaker 2: us this country as a home you had yours. We 1026 00:57:05,840 --> 00:57:08,000 Speaker 2: did not interfere with you. The Great Spirit gave us 1027 00:57:08,000 --> 00:57:10,520 Speaker 2: plenty of land to live on in buffalo, deer, antelope, 1028 00:57:10,520 --> 00:57:13,120 Speaker 2: and other game. But you have come here. You are 1029 00:57:13,120 --> 00:57:15,600 Speaker 2: taking my land from me. You are killing off our game. 1030 00:57:15,840 --> 00:57:18,040 Speaker 2: So it is hard for us to live now. You 1031 00:57:18,080 --> 00:57:19,720 Speaker 2: tell us to work for a living, but the Great 1032 00:57:19,720 --> 00:57:21,880 Speaker 2: Spirit did not make us to work, but to live 1033 00:57:21,920 --> 00:57:24,640 Speaker 2: by hunting. You white men can work if you want to. 1034 00:57:24,800 --> 00:57:27,040 Speaker 2: We do not interfere with you. And again you say, 1035 00:57:27,320 --> 00:57:29,640 Speaker 2: why do you not become civilized? We do not want 1036 00:57:29,640 --> 00:57:32,400 Speaker 2: your civilization. We would live as our fathers did and 1037 00:57:32,480 --> 00:57:33,840 Speaker 2: their fathers before them. 1038 00:57:35,720 --> 00:57:35,959 Speaker 1: Lock. 1039 00:57:36,360 --> 00:57:40,640 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, that's really powerful. Thanks for reading it again. 1040 00:57:41,160 --> 00:57:44,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, can't wait for Wednesday. 1041 00:57:44,960 --> 00:57:46,480 Speaker 3: Can't wait for Custard to die. 1042 00:57:46,760 --> 00:57:49,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, he's gonna die so dead, He's like gonna be 1043 00:57:50,000 --> 00:57:53,360 Speaker 2: super dead. There's three wounds and they're not sure which 1044 00:57:53,400 --> 00:57:56,840 Speaker 2: one killed him. 1045 00:57:56,880 --> 00:58:01,560 Speaker 3: Not to call back to the Pirate episode, but like wimp. 1046 00:58:01,800 --> 00:58:07,000 Speaker 2: Black had like twenty yeah totally. Oh it's so funny. 1047 00:58:08,000 --> 00:58:11,400 Speaker 2: Well that's then the part one of a four parter 1048 00:58:11,840 --> 00:58:16,960 Speaker 2: because we have so much more to talk about. But first, Miriam, Yeah, 1049 00:58:16,960 --> 00:58:17,440 Speaker 2: I think you want to. 1050 00:58:17,440 --> 00:58:20,680 Speaker 3: Talk about Yeah, if I said anything that was incorrect 1051 00:58:20,960 --> 00:58:26,000 Speaker 3: or you'd disagree with, I'm not on Twitter, so talk 1052 00:58:26,040 --> 00:58:26,960 Speaker 3: to Margaret about it. 1053 00:58:27,040 --> 00:58:27,840 Speaker 2: So ha ha ha. 1054 00:58:30,560 --> 00:58:34,680 Speaker 3: But maybe if you are a person who has some 1055 00:58:34,800 --> 00:58:38,120 Speaker 3: money of any amount, you could go to Medical Aid 1056 00:58:38,200 --> 00:58:42,520 Speaker 3: for Palestinians at m AP dot org dot uk and 1057 00:58:42,560 --> 00:58:46,120 Speaker 3: give them some money. Maybe you did that already at 1058 00:58:46,280 --> 00:58:49,520 Speaker 3: the beginning of the bombing of Gaza, and maybe you 1059 00:58:49,560 --> 00:58:52,320 Speaker 3: should do it again. If you did it already, and 1060 00:58:52,360 --> 00:58:54,080 Speaker 3: if you haven't done it at all, maybe you should 1061 00:58:54,120 --> 00:58:54,360 Speaker 3: do it. 1062 00:58:56,760 --> 00:59:00,200 Speaker 2: I think that's what I would plug to And then 1063 00:59:00,200 --> 00:59:05,200 Speaker 2: also to say that just read more about how colonization 1064 00:59:05,320 --> 00:59:07,680 Speaker 2: happens here in the US and how it's an ongoing 1065 00:59:07,680 --> 00:59:10,200 Speaker 2: project and how it's not over. And then like the 1066 00:59:10,280 --> 00:59:12,880 Speaker 2: thing that I keep pointing out because it sits in 1067 00:59:12,920 --> 00:59:15,040 Speaker 2: my head, it's my Roman Empire. It's the thing I 1068 00:59:15,080 --> 00:59:19,920 Speaker 2: think of every once so fucking week, is that in 1069 00:59:19,960 --> 00:59:22,280 Speaker 2: the grand scheme of things, the United States has not 1070 00:59:22,360 --> 00:59:25,320 Speaker 2: actually been a colonized territory for all of that long. 1071 00:59:25,360 --> 00:59:26,960 Speaker 2: It's been a very long time, and it's been a 1072 00:59:27,040 --> 00:59:31,560 Speaker 2: very horrible time, full of awful atrocities, but it's not over, 1073 00:59:32,120 --> 00:59:37,440 Speaker 2: Like there are many places where colonization lasted longer and 1074 00:59:37,480 --> 00:59:37,959 Speaker 2: then ended. 1075 00:59:38,640 --> 00:59:45,680 Speaker 3: You know, Yeah, to to paraphrase Ursula Legwyn, we live 1076 00:59:45,720 --> 00:59:49,920 Speaker 3: under settler colonialism. Its power seems inescapable, So did the 1077 00:59:49,920 --> 00:59:52,960 Speaker 3: divine right of kings. All human power can be undone 1078 00:59:53,000 --> 00:59:54,800 Speaker 3: by human hands. 1079 00:59:54,880 --> 00:59:58,760 Speaker 2: Yeah. So, have you got anything you want to plug? 1080 00:59:59,760 --> 01:00:00,880 Speaker 3: Just could happen here? 1081 01:00:01,480 --> 01:00:04,520 Speaker 2: Yeah? Oh, specifically on it could happen here. There's a 1082 01:00:04,560 --> 01:00:08,480 Speaker 2: really good episode that Mia did about settler colonialism and 1083 01:00:08,560 --> 01:00:12,320 Speaker 2: what it looks like that I actually listened to while 1084 01:00:12,440 --> 01:00:16,160 Speaker 2: writing this episode, and I think it's it's worth going back. Oh, 1085 01:00:16,200 --> 01:00:19,560 Speaker 2: I don't remember the title. It'll be from right around 1086 01:00:20,920 --> 01:00:25,960 Speaker 2: the week of November, like third or fourth or something 1087 01:00:26,040 --> 01:00:30,040 Speaker 2: like that, and it's really worth listening to. It talks 1088 01:00:30,080 --> 01:00:31,760 Speaker 2: a lot about is. 1089 01:00:31,720 --> 01:00:33,600 Speaker 1: It the cheapest land is bought in Blood? 1090 01:00:34,080 --> 01:00:36,959 Speaker 2: Yeah, go listen to Cheap It's a two part listen 1091 01:00:37,000 --> 01:00:37,200 Speaker 2: to that. 1092 01:00:38,200 --> 01:00:38,640 Speaker 1: Yeah. 1093 01:00:39,120 --> 01:00:40,280 Speaker 2: I highly recommend that. 1094 01:00:40,240 --> 01:00:41,080 Speaker 1: To Murder as well. 1095 01:00:41,160 --> 01:00:46,400 Speaker 2: From Martin. All Right, see you all Wednesday. 1096 01:00:46,240 --> 01:00:52,840 Speaker 1: I Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff is a production 1097 01:00:52,960 --> 01:00:56,160 Speaker 1: of cool Zone Media. For more podcasts and cool Zone Media, 1098 01:00:56,320 --> 01:00:59,320 Speaker 1: visit our website cool Zonemedia dot com, or check us 1099 01:00:59,360 --> 01:01:02,800 Speaker 1: out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you 1100 01:01:02,840 --> 01:01:10,479 Speaker 1: get your podcasts.