Speaker 1: All of you listen to this podcast are living on
Speaker 1: the edge with spoilers you just can't ignore. When we
Speaker 1: first made pods for you, none of you trusted us.
Speaker 1: But as you know, we made episodes and you listened
Speaker 1: to them, so everyone here trusted us to tell you.
Speaker 1: This episode contained spoilers for Squid Game, for the new
Speaker 1: James Bond Double O seven picture, No Time to Die,
Speaker 1: as well as a whole lot more, and so who knows,
Speaker 1: honestly what else we might talk about, so be warned.
Speaker 2: Hello.
Speaker 1: I am Jason Stepsione and welcome to episode seven of
Speaker 1: x ray Vision, the Crookeet Podcast, when we dive deep
Speaker 1: into your favorite shows, movies, comics, and pop culture. On
Speaker 1: today's Previously on we'll talk about the latest Bond film
Speaker 1: No Time to Die. In the airlock, we will dive
Speaker 1: deep into the Netflix sensation Squid Game, and in the endgame,
Speaker 1: we will choose our own dead the game to be
Speaker 1: a part of. You won't want to miss out. But first,
Speaker 1: let's say Loadered, today's co host, pop culture clairvoyant, the
Speaker 1: Great Rosie Night. Rosie, what was your favorite children's game?
Speaker 3: I was like thinking a lot about this. I wasn't
Speaker 3: really like an active kid. So I'm gonna say like
Speaker 3: dot count because I used to love going to my
Speaker 3: friend's hoss and playing dot coun but because of squid games,
Speaker 3: I will reveal the English or at least London regional
Speaker 3: title for red Light Green Light, which is what's the
Speaker 3: time missed the Wolf?
Speaker 2: So that's the.
Speaker 3: Exactly, it's like the most English to ever. What was
Speaker 3: your favorite chardhood game?
Speaker 2: Kick the Can? Do you ever play Kick the Can? No?
Speaker 2: So kick the Can?
Speaker 1: Uh it figures in If you want to see a
Speaker 1: good version of Kick the Can, it is in the
Speaker 1: Twilight Zone movie from the eighties. Uh directed by John
Speaker 1: landis famous for the deaths of Uh, an actor and
Speaker 1: two child actors on set during a particularly harrowing helicopter scene,
Speaker 1: but there is a brief snippet of Kick the Can
Speaker 1: in there. It's kind of like hide and go seek
Speaker 1: in that one person is it, or the person or
Speaker 1: the jailer sometimes and there is a can or a
Speaker 1: bottle we use, like a two liter bottle of like
Speaker 1: Hawaiian punch. Everyone would go hide, right and then the
Speaker 1: person who's it then has to go around and find
Speaker 1: people and they have to stay in this like circle
Speaker 1: around the can, and so they would say, like tap
Speaker 1: tap tap, I see Jason hiding behind a tree, and
Speaker 1: if he sees you, you then have to go stand
Speaker 1: with him in this circle around the can. Now, if
Speaker 1: someone manages to like run up before the person who
Speaker 1: is it can say tap tap tap, I see so
Speaker 1: and so I see Rosie running toward me, and they
Speaker 1: kick the can before that full statement is uttered. Everyone
Speaker 1: is free, and then the person has to then go
Speaker 1: retrieve the can, return it to the place, and everybody
Speaker 1: is run away and his hid.
Speaker 2: It would go on for a long time.
Speaker 1: But it was very suspenseful, and there was nothing like
Speaker 1: kicking the can at the last possible moment for free.
Speaker 3: It sounds actually like it would be a very good
Speaker 3: squid game game because it's like suspiciously simple but actually
Speaker 3: secretly really intricate.
Speaker 2: Yes, like we were.
Speaker 1: The fun move would be someone would say tap tap tap,
Speaker 1: I see so and so and so and so hiding
Speaker 1: over here, and then a third person would like walk
Speaker 1: up with them very chill, like, oh you also got
Speaker 1: me you forgot about it, and then they would get
Speaker 1: to the can and kick it and.
Speaker 2: Everybody would just go crazy and run.
Speaker 1: Okay, let's get to the news and recapsin today's Previously on.
Speaker 2: First up, DC's new Superman, John Kent.
Speaker 1: This is the child of Clark Kent and Lois Lane
Speaker 1: has been announced as as bisexual in a DC and
Speaker 1: this made quite a splash. They announced this on National
Speaker 1: Coming Out Day, which is great pr and while this
Speaker 1: is certainly the buzziest of recent diverse representational announcements, this
Speaker 1: has been going on for a while. Tim Drake, the
Speaker 1: current Robin, has been out as bisexual since August. Tom Taylor,
Speaker 1: Dark Knights of Steel, Harlequinn and of course you know
Speaker 1: Young Avengers from eight or ten years ago has had
Speaker 1: characters that were gay and out as gay, even like.
Speaker 3: Going back to like some of our favorite comics like
Speaker 3: the clamon X Men stuff. Even though there was allegedly
Speaker 3: an edict at the time where they could have change
Speaker 3: Jim Shooters Joe Victorious edict, but like you know, Mistek
Speaker 3: and Destiny, like these are things that these stories have
Speaker 3: been there for like a really long time.
Speaker 2: They have been there, you know.
Speaker 1: I think there were some notable stories from that era
Speaker 1: and ways that creators got around the supposed edict, which
Speaker 1: I believe is true. I believe that Jim Shooter had
Speaker 1: is true, Jim. I believe that Jim Shooter had an edict.
Speaker 1: He seemed like that kind of guy. There's I forget
Speaker 1: what what issue of Captain America is, but there's like
Speaker 1: an issue of Captain America where he uh, I might
Speaker 1: get some of the details wrong, but that he meets
Speaker 1: up again with like an old army buddy who has
Speaker 1: like a best friend, that they live together, and like
Speaker 1: something like they aren't allowed to like split their assets
Speaker 1: in some particular way or one of them get sick,
Speaker 1: and Captain America is like, well, it's wrong that like
Speaker 1: these characters can't just hang out together. And but it's
Speaker 1: quite clearly coded like as a as a gay relationship.
Speaker 2: So this is great.
Speaker 1: And for everybody who is mad and Slash upset about this,
Speaker 1: you're late.
Speaker 2: You clearly don't read comics because it has been going on.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and also it's really funny because like Conic Kent,
Speaker 3: like everyone always thought he was gay, so I'm sure
Speaker 3: that they're both going to be gay soon, Like Conic
Speaker 3: Can's like the number one shipping like gay icons. So
Speaker 3: I thought this was really cool. The art was really nice.
Speaker 2: The art was beautifums. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and Tom Taylor, I think's doing something really cool.
Speaker 3: I like seeing John as Superman. I think that's really
Speaker 3: interesting choice and good for them.
Speaker 1: The Tom Taylor statement quote. Superman's symbol has always stood
Speaker 1: for hope, for truth, and for justice. Today the symbol
Speaker 1: represents something more. Today, more people can see themselves in
Speaker 1: the most powerful superhero in comics.
Speaker 2: It's great.
Speaker 1: Also big news for image heads for Brian K.
Speaker 2: Vaughan, heads for fans of Fiuna Staples.
Speaker 1: Saga, the acclaimed award winning series which I love very dearly,
Speaker 1: will return end of January with issue fifty five. It's
Speaker 1: been on hiatus for I want to say almost two
Speaker 1: and a half three years now that it left us with.
Speaker 1: This is a spoiler of podcast, but one of the
Speaker 1: more brutal cliffhangers in comics that I can remember, and
Speaker 1: it's coming back.
Speaker 2: I can't wait. I love it. I love this comic.
Speaker 1: If you love family, if you love falling in love,
Speaker 1: if you want to see one of the most heartrending
Speaker 1: depictions of a breakup of two people who go their
Speaker 1: separate ways and maintain their love for each other, check
Speaker 1: out Saga. It all Happens in space. There's a cat
Speaker 1: that knows if you're lying.
Speaker 2: It's great.
Speaker 3: Well, it's like your one If somebody was like, what
Speaker 3: saga about? What's like your one?
Speaker 4: Nine?
Speaker 2: Like pitch line man.
Speaker 1: It's about love and space, I guess, you know, and
Speaker 1: the ability of love to transcend really violent disagreements and differences.
Speaker 1: It's about a planet that is at war with its moon,
Speaker 1: you know, a highly technological people versus people entrenched in magic,
Speaker 1: and they disagree on everything. But then two different people
Speaker 1: from those two species fall.
Speaker 2: In love and they have a child.
Speaker 1: And though it doesn't all work out the way you
Speaker 1: would want it to, it's just an incredibly engaging story.
Speaker 2: It's how would you pitch it?
Speaker 5: Yeah?
Speaker 3: No, I think that's perfect. I think like it's one
Speaker 3: of those comics where I used to work in a
Speaker 3: comic shop in London and I had a lot of
Speaker 3: friends who were that image era of like twenty twelve
Speaker 3: to twenty fifteen, where it's just like the biggest you had,
Speaker 3: you know, Wicked in the Divine Sara. Obviously Walking Dead
Speaker 3: was still like its peak. This was one of those
Speaker 3: books that you gave to people who don't read comic books.
Speaker 3: So that's always my thing is like, this is that
Speaker 3: first book one because Fiona's art is like so incredible
Speaker 3: and I love BKV. But the art is what sells
Speaker 3: someone who's never read a comic book. But it's political,
Speaker 3: it's nuanced, it's sweet, it's loving, it's violent, it's scary,
Speaker 3: it's inventive, sexy, it's like it's sexy. Yeah, and it's
Speaker 3: it's honestly like one of the biggest kind of cultural
Speaker 3: phenomenon comics of our time. Like it's the one comic
Speaker 3: that I feel like everyone says you have to read.
Speaker 3: It's one Eyes's, It's one Harvey's. I think Fiona might
Speaker 3: have become the first woman to ever win an Eisner
Speaker 3: on this book, as like as the first woman to
Speaker 3: ever win Best Artists in Eisner for this book. And yeah,
Speaker 3: it's it's kind of also the last ongoing book of
Speaker 3: that era as well, because Walking Dead is done, WIKTIV
Speaker 3: is done, a lot of the other stuff that was
Speaker 3: really popular there was just kind of minis so. And also,
Speaker 3: I think it's going to be basically double the same
Speaker 3: amount of issues, right, so it's like it's going to
Speaker 3: be fifty four more issues.
Speaker 1: I'm so excited, and then you know Fiona. She's probably
Speaker 1: my favorite artist working for various reasons, but mainly because
Speaker 1: I don't think anybody does clothes and fashion as well
Speaker 1: as she does. Like everything that the characters in Saga
Speaker 1: Ware has, it feels lived in, but it's also super cool.
Speaker 2: It's like, it's very rare.
Speaker 1: That I open a comic and I'm like, I would
Speaker 1: wear that jacket that this character is wearing in this
Speaker 1: comic book.
Speaker 3: Even the issue fifty five cover they released, I was like, Wow,
Speaker 3: just pure style, just easy as fuck on the front
Speaker 3: of that cover already, and I was like, Okay, you're
Speaker 3: still going with it. Yeah, I'll be really interested to
Speaker 3: see the release schedule because this is a book that
Speaker 3: has it defies release schedules.
Speaker 2: People are still so excited.
Speaker 3: About it, even though it's been this like two year gap,
Speaker 3: and they've had a lot of gaps before, so I'm
Speaker 3: really excited. Image needs another big it needs a return
Speaker 3: of like a big book.
Speaker 1: I agree with you, these things are cyclical, but you
Speaker 1: know this will be This is huge for that company.
Speaker 1: Next our mini segment, which we are dubbing the Editor's Note,
Speaker 1: X Ray Vision's producer and James Bond super nerd Chris
Speaker 1: Lord will now join us to discuss the current state
Speaker 1: of Bond as a celebration of the release of the
Speaker 1: final Daniel Craig Bond film, No Time to Due, directed
Speaker 1: by directorial super hunk lover of Log Cabins, Carrie.
Speaker 2: Chris take it away.
Speaker 4: Thanks for having me on.
Speaker 3: No.
Speaker 6: I was super excited to jump in here because, yeah,
Speaker 6: I am like the biggest James Bond fan possible, and
Speaker 6: I really love this movie actually, but it's very different
Speaker 6: than anything else we've gotten out of Bond so far.
Speaker 4: But like, I'm just kind of curious, what'd you guys
Speaker 4: think about it?
Speaker 5: That was great?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I quite enjoyed it. I think it's arguably the
Speaker 1: best Daniel Craig Bond.
Speaker 4: Okay, I think the.
Speaker 3: Same, like I think, especially if you're not as into
Speaker 3: the Lord Bond.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's fair.
Speaker 3: For a two hour, forty five minute movie, this is
Speaker 3: an accessible, interesting, funny It's it's so much funnier and
Speaker 3: campier than the other ones, but it still has steaks
Speaker 3: like Craig wise, and that's why I love about Bond. Yeah,
Speaker 3: I just I thought it was I thought it was
Speaker 3: really great.
Speaker 2: I didn't.
Speaker 3: I was like, this is gonna drag, but it did
Speaker 3: not drag. I'm actually stoked to see it again.
Speaker 1: Yeah, set the set pieces are wonderful, Craig is great,
Speaker 1: and it's and it's one of you know, they've been
Speaker 1: doing the kind of like Bond, have you lost a
Speaker 1: step James Bond for for a little while with the
Speaker 1: Daniel Craig run, but this is the most effective, uh
Speaker 1: depiction of that, and it's super fun.
Speaker 2: The character is great. I liked it.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I'm glad they finally let him be funny because
Speaker 6: Jenna Craig has actually really great comedic timing, but he's
Speaker 6: just been so serious in all these movies.
Speaker 1: So sell us on Bond. Sell for those who are
Speaker 1: not Bond heads, sell us on give it. How how
Speaker 1: would you pitch someone on Bond?
Speaker 6: So I always think of Bond as like this really
Speaker 6: unique touch point through culture, Like it's the only major
Speaker 6: film series has been going on for sixty years that's
Speaker 6: maintained that kind of status, so you can jump into
Speaker 6: any movie and kind of get a sense of what
Speaker 6: the world was like at the time the movie came out.
Speaker 6: But I also think he's this ongoing commentary on modern masculinity.
Speaker 4: In a lot of ways.
Speaker 6: I mean, I think there's all this conversation now like oh,
Speaker 6: should Bond be a woman, And I actually think that's
Speaker 6: kind of reductives. I think you can say much more
Speaker 6: interesting things about how a male character can and should
Speaker 6: behave now than by changing up the gender. And so
Speaker 6: I always say that, like, if you've never seen Bond,
Speaker 6: start with Casino Royale because it's like, arguably be the
Speaker 6: best film that they've made. It's the most accessible. Then
Speaker 6: go watch Goldfinger, which it's like deeply, deeply problematic, but
Speaker 6: it's like the.
Speaker 4: Most Bond.
Speaker 3: But it's so campy and it's.
Speaker 6: So Campyre's there's so many problems I'm not gonna start
Speaker 6: to get into here. If you watch the movie, you
Speaker 6: know exactly what I'm talking about. But it's like the
Speaker 6: most Bond Bond movie ever made. It's like where they
Speaker 6: set the formula. And then after that, I say, go
Speaker 6: watch like Die Another Day or Diamonds Are Forever.
Speaker 4: Just see how like.
Speaker 6: Fucking ridiculously stupid some of them can be. You'll get
Speaker 6: a whole swath of it. But I think for like
Speaker 6: No Time to Die, you do kind of have to
Speaker 6: have seen the entire Craig run, which is different. Like
Speaker 6: that's the thing that has kind of defined the Dan
Speaker 6: of Craig era is that it's been a huge departure
Speaker 6: from the traditional formula up to this point, Like every
Speaker 6: other Bond film was always like a one and done thing,
Speaker 6: like you kind of watch it and it didn't matter
Speaker 6: what came before, what came after, And this is the
Speaker 6: first time they're like, oh no, you have to know
Speaker 6: what's going on in continuity is really really important to
Speaker 6: this era, which is.
Speaker 4: Very different.
Speaker 6: I think it's kind of put them in a unique
Speaker 6: position going forward, like I don't really know what they
Speaker 6: do now. I mean to get into like full on,
Speaker 6: full on spoilers here for No Time to Die if
Speaker 6: you haven't seen it. Pause, but like they kill Bond
Speaker 6: and that's never been done before.
Speaker 2: Dead.
Speaker 4: He's like one hundred percent dead.
Speaker 6: And you know, it's interesting because this movie is almost
Speaker 6: like kind of a pseudo remake in some ways of
Speaker 6: on her majesty of service, Like people were gonna be
Speaker 6: talking about that a lot, so I want to address that.
Speaker 6: Like not only does Bond say the phrase we have
Speaker 6: all the time the world, which is like the catch
Speaker 6: phrase from that film and also the title of the
Speaker 6: Louis Armstrong song. But like in that movie, he has
Speaker 6: a chance at happiness to like go and get married
Speaker 6: and be with the love of his life, and then
Speaker 6: that's cut short by an assassination attempt from Blofeld, and
Speaker 6: the exact same thing happens here, but in the prologue
Speaker 6: of the film, but instead of anyone dying, like he
Speaker 6: basically decides he can never trust mallance one again and
Speaker 6: so like, Okay, if you go, I'm never gonna talk
Speaker 6: to you again, which, of course, of course they come
Speaker 6: back together, but like, yeah, he he's now dead, and
Speaker 6: so it's like, what do you.
Speaker 2: Do they do?
Speaker 5: What do they do?
Speaker 1: Like how do they like assuming that they don't have
Speaker 1: a moment in which like em is in their.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like in their apartment.
Speaker 1: They're in their apartment, and then all of a sudden
Speaker 1: it's like, oh my god, boond, that's right.
Speaker 2: You thought I was deceased but I'm live or something
Speaker 2: like yeah.
Speaker 6: I mean it's weird because this movie almost kind of
Speaker 6: sets up some potential spin offs, like so we get
Speaker 6: Lashawna lynch'es know me, who's the new double o? Seven,
Speaker 6: who I really hoping she was gonna be a scene stealer,
Speaker 6: Like I kind of want to come out of this
Speaker 6: movie being like, Hey, if they make a movie just
Speaker 6: around her, I would love to watch it.
Speaker 4: I thought she was a little bit underutilized.
Speaker 1: There was there was a lot of we're gonna play
Speaker 1: with the idea that someone or anyone would steal anything
Speaker 1: from James Bond, his title, the scenes. You know, his
Speaker 1: status is like the protagonist, and.
Speaker 2: It never happens for sure.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I thought Lashaana was great, but she was also
Speaker 3: playing like a more classic contemporary spy against like a
Speaker 3: character whose entire point is to contradict that and be
Speaker 3: more interesting or different. But there was like, I think
Speaker 3: you're right about the spinoffs, because I mean, the side
Speaker 3: characters are always great in these Craig movies. They introduced
Speaker 3: that Ana Dahma's Craig scene is like ten out of ten,
Speaker 3: one of the best scenes from any.
Speaker 4: James She's the real scene stealer.
Speaker 6: Ana d Armes's Paloma, like she's so weird and funny
Speaker 6: and like she seems like she doesn't know what she's doing,
Speaker 6: and then she's like crazy confident, but also like a
Speaker 6: hard drinker, just like Bond.
Speaker 4: It's so weird and fun.
Speaker 3: And they don't sleep together, like they just have a
Speaker 3: great just have a cool super like mass killing and
Speaker 3: then they're like, hey, you agree, let's.
Speaker 6: Like grab a drink and shoot some people against So yeah,
Speaker 6: it'll be fun to be really great.
Speaker 3: Yeah that I really You know, when studios like release
Speaker 3: scenes from movies to sell the movie, I'm like, they
Speaker 3: need to just put that on YouTube because people would
Speaker 3: be using their mind. Like it's such a it's just
Speaker 3: such a solid space. But so something I wonder is,
Speaker 3: like you talked the old James Bond movies before, Craig,
Speaker 3: It's like, it doesn't matter what happens in the first one,
Speaker 3: just continue on. It doesn't matter it's a different act.
Speaker 3: Blah blah blah. So do you think they're essentially going
Speaker 3: to use that formula to just keep doing James Bond
Speaker 3: but with a different person or do you think because
Speaker 3: they did these movies that are like such a capsule
Speaker 3: with like an ongoing storyline, that they've kind of trapped
Speaker 3: themselves into a corner.
Speaker 6: I think they have kind of backed themselves into a corner,
Speaker 6: like you can't just kind of pick up and run
Speaker 6: with it now because they've made condity such a big
Speaker 6: deal and that made Craig such a big deal. I mean,
Speaker 6: I understand why they killed him because I think one
Speaker 6: they wanted to give him a proper and off, and
Speaker 6: too they had to find a reason to not have
Speaker 6: him come back because he's been the most popular Bond
Speaker 6: since Connery, like hands down, everyone loves him so much.
Speaker 6: But I think I think it's hard to do a
Speaker 6: spinoff because you could have a new character b double
Speaker 6: O seven the way they did here, but like the
Speaker 6: end credits even say James Bond will return, right, So
Speaker 6: James Bond will come back. So I don't think they
Speaker 6: can do that. I think you have to try to
Speaker 6: just keep going. And maybe because Craig has been such
Speaker 6: a departure that whole era, you could go back and
Speaker 6: just have it be all right, we bring in someone new,
Speaker 6: we go back to the traditional like you know, give
Speaker 6: him a doste, set him on a mission, keep going.
Speaker 6: And I think they have to pull back on making
Speaker 6: continuity is such a big deal and just kind of
Speaker 6: go back that thing, like and we just keep going on.
Speaker 4: It's a new actor.
Speaker 6: Because there's been this idea that Bond's a code name,
Speaker 6: and it's actually been proven true number of times. Yeah,
Speaker 6: Like even Roger Moore films make reference to Sean Connor
Speaker 6: of films and so on, so that's not the thing.
Speaker 6: I don't want them to do that either. Like, I'm
Speaker 6: kind of sad because I feel like we're gonna have
Speaker 6: to now say goodbye to like finds as M and
Speaker 6: Naomi Harris's Moneypenny and Ben Wishaw's Q and I love
Speaker 6: all of them, but I think you can't just bring
Speaker 6: them back again and have it still makes sense.
Speaker 1: Unfortunately, is there a next Bond? So much of the
Speaker 1: talk about Bond is who's next? I don't want to
Speaker 1: get into like speculator who could be the next Bond?
Speaker 1: But does the next Bond have to be ripped? Now
Speaker 1: that Daniel Craig is established that Bond is ripped, I
Speaker 1: mean Bond like James Bond coming out of the water.
Speaker 1: It was a landmark moment in the history of Bond.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, and the water glistening running off.
Speaker 3: Of his adults and like a nice inversion of like
Speaker 3: you know, yes, it's like the gaze and let's look
Speaker 3: at Bond.
Speaker 4: Yeah, the gaze is now on Bond.
Speaker 6: I mean just very personally considering that that moment of
Speaker 6: considerail was a big part of my like gay awakening.
Speaker 4: Like can we please keep having Bond the super ripped?
Speaker 6: Just on a personal level, I want that, let's let's
Speaker 6: all go Bond a little bit more here, But yeah,
Speaker 6: I think he's got to be ripped still.
Speaker 3: I think in that mcu age, I think it's there's
Speaker 3: no question, Like I think I would like to see
Speaker 3: like dad board Bond or whatever they straight people call bears, Like,
Speaker 3: you know, I would like to see that. But I
Speaker 3: think realistically, you're going to have someone on an mc
Speaker 3: usque diet and they'll probably cast someone you're not expecting
Speaker 3: to be ripped, and then when they have that moment,
Speaker 3: everyone's going to.
Speaker 2: Be like whoa, oh my god.
Speaker 3: Training and not drinking water for.
Speaker 2: Like two years exactly.
Speaker 4: Yeah, no, he he's going to be ripped.
Speaker 6: I want to see like an actual of color take
Speaker 6: over the role. Like I think that's where you can
Speaker 6: go now, is like, oh, you can make the character
Speaker 6: more diverse. And then again me like wanting everything to
Speaker 6: be more queer. I think a modern Bond would fuck everybody,
Speaker 6: so bisexual, making pants sexual, Like, just put that in
Speaker 6: there and just let it be a thing.
Speaker 3: Also, didn't Daniel Craig do some incredible interview recently while
Speaker 3: he was talking about how he always kisses his leading men,
Speaker 3: so he was like kissing Romy Mallick or something when the.
Speaker 4: Movie somehow miss this.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm pretty sure that was a real thing that
Speaker 3: he said. So I'm like, just make that canon. He's
Speaker 3: already too in the work.
Speaker 5: Like.
Speaker 3: Also, yeah, like you said, James Bond, he would literally
Speaker 3: he would.
Speaker 2: We would sleep with every question.
Speaker 1: The calling back to our conversation in previously on about
Speaker 1: about John Kent coming out as bisexual along with Tim Drakes,
Speaker 1: et cetera, that I think the thing that the Bond
Speaker 1: producers will realize is you just have so much more
Speaker 1: story when your main character can have a romantic relationship
Speaker 1: with every other character in the story.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Think about it. Yeah, think about it, James Bond producers.
Speaker 5: Mm hmm.
Speaker 3: And also, like you said, like it not only does that,
Speaker 3: but also it opens up a different aspect of like
Speaker 3: a male masculinity exploration, whether they're queer, whether they are
Speaker 3: a person of color, whether they're both. That adds a
Speaker 3: different layer to the thing they've already been doing for sixty.
Speaker 6: Yes, yeah, exactly. You don't have to have a gay
Speaker 6: character super feminine. It can be like the most masculine
Speaker 6: character in the world. And also, yeah, he happens to
Speaker 6: sleep with men.
Speaker 1: It's fine, Chris, thank you for joining us on this
Speaker 1: u that you have been dying to have about the
Speaker 1: latest James Bond film.
Speaker 2: No Time to Die.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we come back, Rosie and I step out of
Speaker 1: the airlock. We're stepping out of the airlock and into
Speaker 1: the no holds barred high stakes survival series Squid Game,
Speaker 1: currently streaming on Netflix. This is, according to Netflix, now Rosie,
Speaker 1: their biggest international hit. This can't be stressed enough. Do
Speaker 1: I believe that this is a huge international hit.
Speaker 4: I do.
Speaker 1: I believe because listen, I started watching it because everybody
Speaker 1: on my timeline was like schood Game, Scared Games. So
Speaker 1: I believe that it is a huge international But it
Speaker 1: can't be said enough when Netflix says this is our
Speaker 1: biggest hit of all time, this is a huge global hit,
Speaker 1: This is a MASSI hit. Blah blah blah blah blah.
Speaker 1: We are taking their word for it because Netflix, like
Speaker 1: all other streamers, does not tell anybody about what their
Speaker 1: viewership numbers are, what their stats are.
Speaker 2: We don't know anything about it.
Speaker 3: Yes, let's be let's be equal hair no streamers, no
Speaker 3: streamers and other than their own. There's no Nielsen kind
Speaker 3: of there's there's equivalents that are popping up. But this
Speaker 3: is just Apple or Netflix or Disney Plus saying hey,
Speaker 3: eighty five million people want and you just have to say,
Speaker 3: I believe you, like you said, I actually squid Game.
Speaker 3: I believe it, like I don't know what the numbers are.
Speaker 3: But do I believe or want to believe that we
Speaker 3: live in a world where more people watch this than Bridgeton. Yes,
Speaker 3: and I might Bridgidson yet no beef, But if that
Speaker 3: excites me that this is like could be the biggest
Speaker 3: Netflix show of all time.
Speaker 1: So quick recap on squid Game. Song Gi Hun, otherwise
Speaker 1: known as Player four fifty six UH, is a inveterate gambler.
Speaker 1: He is in debt. The debts are causing friction with
Speaker 1: his family, with his ex wife his ability to take
Speaker 1: care of their daughter, and so he is approached by
Speaker 1: a shadowy group to join a mysterious game that could
Speaker 1: possibly award him as much as forty five and a
Speaker 1: half billion Korean wand, which is about thirty eight million dollars,
Speaker 1: certainly a decent payday. And the losers are eliminated in
Speaker 1: the most literal way. They are killed off, usually by
Speaker 1: a gunshot to the head, occasionally by other means, falling.
Speaker 2: From great heights, etc.
Speaker 1: The games are run by a coterie of massed individuals
Speaker 1: in red jumpsuits, and they are armed to the teeth.
Speaker 2: They, meanwhile, are.
Speaker 1: Led by the mysterious frontman, who controls the game with
Speaker 1: an authoritarian fist, and who in a and this is
Speaker 1: a huge spoiler, Uh yeah, big, big, big spoiler, turns
Speaker 1: out to be the long lost brother of the detective
Speaker 1: character in the game.
Speaker 2: Okay, so there have.
Speaker 1: Been shows and movies and stories that have criticized power
Speaker 1: and criticized capitalism and then explore the idea of selfishness
Speaker 1: as a generator of drama and suspense before but what
Speaker 1: do you think what's the appeal of this of squid game?
Speaker 1: Which it's not often that a show that no one
Speaker 1: expects comes up and captures the conversation, I guess, like
Speaker 1: Stranger Things and other Netflix property, which was also definitely
Speaker 1: more marks, definitely more marketed, right, just.
Speaker 3: A little bit more. But I think the first reason,
Speaker 3: which does not touch on anything that we say, but
Speaker 3: esthetically and stylistically, this show is so uniquely and I
Speaker 3: do really think the pink jumpsuits, the Esher style, neon staircases,
Speaker 3: the stylized kid game. I think that's what got people
Speaker 3: to maybe click on it, you know. But the nature
Speaker 3: of the capitalists critique and the idea of what we'll
Speaker 3: do to survive, I just think this is unbelievably timely
Speaker 3: and it works on. As I was watching it, I
Speaker 3: was just thinking, like multiple different times throughout this show,
Speaker 3: You're like, oh, this could be about veterans who've been
Speaker 3: in the military and then come out and they're homeless,
Speaker 3: or this could be about you know, you've got to
Speaker 3: it's always about following the rules in squid Game. If
Speaker 3: you don't, if you follow the rules, everyone's equal, and
Speaker 3: if you follow the rules, then you can have this great,
Speaker 3: big payout, which is just society and is also bullshit.
Speaker 3: You know. Also, I think something that's really interesting, and
Speaker 3: I know me and you were talking about this even
Speaker 3: like last week before we were recording, but we are
Speaker 3: in a space now it's twenty twenty one, twenty one
Speaker 3: years ago. Battlew the movie came out a year before.
Speaker 1: Incredibly influential movie, unbelievable, It's fingerprints are all over squid
Speaker 1: game if you haven't seen it.
Speaker 3: Unbelievable director by Kinji Fukusaku. Just absolutely cultural. Just zeitdeiscet movie.
Speaker 3: But we are now living in the era where that
Speaker 3: has existed and been influencing pop culture for twenty one years.
Speaker 1: Hunger Games influential to the point where Susanne Collins, editor
Speaker 1: told her there's this book and movie called Battle Royale.
Speaker 1: Don't read it or watch it as you were in
Speaker 1: the middle, because editors had become aware of it and
Speaker 1: had become aware of how close it was to they
Speaker 1: were like, don't read it, don't watch it, don't do it.
Speaker 3: And also, like, the most popular video game in the
Speaker 3: world right now is Fortnite, which was inspired again by Battlerial.
Speaker 3: So we're in a space where this story has become
Speaker 3: a trope. The idea of like the survivalist, that you
Speaker 3: kill everyone else to survive and it's just you has
Speaker 3: become like an ultimate pop culture trope. So there's something
Speaker 3: about that. And then you know, living through a pandemic
Speaker 3: and the massive wealth divide and stories that are already
Speaker 3: inspiring these kind of conversations like Powersite, and I feel
Speaker 3: like it just ended up being perfectly timed to kind
Speaker 3: of engage and get everyone in the like they were saying,
Speaker 3: this was the top show in you know, thirty countries
Speaker 3: or something like. And also it helps that it's incredibly
Speaker 3: well made, them well written, the production dine is amazing,
Speaker 3: the story arcs are incredible, And I think the biggest
Speaker 3: thing which I know we're gonna touch on, that separates
Speaker 3: this from every other one and why I think people
Speaker 3: are so into it is episode two, the option of
Speaker 3: leaving and coming back that I think is the big cook.
Speaker 1: That is a very, very notable difference in these kind
Speaker 1: of stories you mentioned Battle Royale. I think if we're
Speaker 1: gonna say that these kind of tales where there's a
Speaker 1: kind of like non zero structure in which in order
Speaker 1: for a character to advance, another character must definitely lose,
Speaker 1: and that usually means their life, and that's create it's
Speaker 1: this kind of like ruthless emotional cadence. You're exactly right.
Speaker 1: The thing that makes this different than the Hunger games,
Speaker 1: Battle Royale, Survivor, you know, all these other shows. Is
Speaker 1: that these characters given the option to opt out of
Speaker 1: it and to leave, and by leaving, they then make
Speaker 1: the decision that actually the larger system, the larger economic
Speaker 1: system that we find ourselves in separate and aside from
Speaker 1: the metaphor of the squid game, is so punishing that
Speaker 1: it's actually the cost benefit analysis leads us to say
Speaker 1: we must return to the game that underlines the capitalist
Speaker 1: critique in a lot stronger of a way than a
Speaker 1: lot of these other games.
Speaker 2: I agree with you, it is really quite a different thing.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And even like the name of that episode is
Speaker 3: hell Yeah. So it's like you've been in the game,
Speaker 3: You've seen two hundred people die in this really brew
Speaker 3: away is just going back onto the street, you know,
Speaker 3: and we learn later on that there's more machinations there,
Speaker 3: the people they meet, the conversations they have. But I
Speaker 3: think that choice really gives you that even the biggest
Speaker 3: hook of these is what would I do? Would I
Speaker 3: be able to do it? Could I do it? Could
Speaker 3: I find a way to not do it? Would I
Speaker 3: thrive in that situation? It's the same as the zombie
Speaker 3: Apocalypse everyone has a zombie apocalypse plan how would you survive?
Speaker 3: So putting them back in the outside world and having
Speaker 3: them choose to go back in that adds a whole
Speaker 3: different layer to that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree with you.
Speaker 1: I mean, like one of the one of the traits
Speaker 1: that all these kind of stories and games share is
Speaker 1: the action takes place on a removed and isolated battle
Speaker 1: arena or a desert island, or you know, in the
Speaker 1: case of like the Saw movies, like in some hidden
Speaker 1: you know playpen for a serial killer that acts as
Speaker 1: like a limited resource metaphor for whatever the larger idea is.
Speaker 1: And also that the characters are faced with, you know,
Speaker 1: impossible choices that ask them to prioritize their own self
Speaker 1: interest above normal things. So like in squid game, you know,
Speaker 1: four or five six is asked to prioritize self interest
Speaker 1: above like his own warm feelings for other characters. He's
Speaker 1: asked to, you know, walk away from an older character
Speaker 1: who basically he is the only one who sees value
Speaker 1: in that character in the context of a game. A
Speaker 1: lot of times in stories like this, a character is
Speaker 1: asked to prioritize their own self interest above, like even
Speaker 1: parts of themselves, you know, and saw like notably, carry
Speaker 1: Always's character cuts off their own leg in order to
Speaker 1: move forward in the game. And you see a lot
Speaker 1: of you know, Game of Thrones has like these same
Speaker 1: kind of things where people become maimed or lose an
Speaker 1: arm in order for them.
Speaker 2: To continue on.
Speaker 1: And that kind of tenor is part and parcel to
Speaker 1: this style. And it's it's hard to escape from the
Speaker 1: fact that like this style of storytelling, it's always been around, right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: Lord of the Florida, The Fly, The Running Man, The
Speaker 1: Most Dangerous Game came out in the twenties, but particular
Speaker 1: since Battle Royale and I think The Late Night Is
Speaker 1: it's just become more and more popular, whether it's survivor right,
Speaker 1: remove characters, remove contestants to a desert island where they
Speaker 1: then must compete against each other, Big Brother Locke contestants
Speaker 1: in this kind of like almost laboratory recreation of a
Speaker 1: house in which they must compete against each other. The Purge, Castaway,
Speaker 1: The Walking Dead, The Road, Cormack McCarthy's Road.
Speaker 2: There's all these versions of this.
Speaker 1: And then and you mentioned Fortnite, Call of Duty, war
Speaker 1: Zone Apex legends. This for some reason this setup is
Speaker 1: resonating with people right now.
Speaker 3: I actually think as well, like you've touched on something
Speaker 3: really interesting that I wouldn't have necessarily made the connection between.
Speaker 3: But I think if we talk about why squid Game
Speaker 3: is so popular now, you cannot in any way discount
Speaker 3: reality TV. Somebody who watches The Bachelorette or survivor really passionately,
Speaker 3: they might not have seen bat real, but they are
Speaker 3: essentially watching the same storyline, just with it's not death,
Speaker 3: it's you're being eliminated in a romantic set. Honestly, I
Speaker 3: would probably rather do batal than that show is terrifying
Speaker 3: to me. It's so terrifying. But but like I think
Speaker 3: that's really interesting because what we're saying is this is
Speaker 3: no matter what kind of medium or genre. There's novels
Speaker 3: about it, there's reality TV about it, there's horror movies
Speaker 3: about it, there's games that kids play about it. This
Speaker 3: is a story that is resonating with people, and somehow
Speaker 3: squid Game has kind of captured that in a way
Speaker 3: that is making people really excited. And also, like I
Speaker 3: do think it's cool to see people having conversations about
Speaker 3: their readings of it. Yeah, and I think so too
Speaker 3: works and it's like people will be like, oh, it's
Speaker 3: a meme, but I'm like, that is how information spreads,
Speaker 3: you know. I saw so many good memes about like.
Speaker 5: It.
Speaker 3: There's like one really popular one that's basically like, oh,
Speaker 3: you know squid game. Imagine a world where people have
Speaker 3: to sign away their lives and like rights and bodily
Speaker 3: autonomy so that they can survive. And then it's like
Speaker 3: the US military like hiding, you know, like I think
Speaker 3: it's people are seeing something in this story specifically that
Speaker 3: speaks to them in a way where it's not analogous.
Speaker 3: It's not like, oh, maybe it means this. It's not
Speaker 3: your literary student reading like, you know, the Scarlet letter
Speaker 3: and someone saying maybe he meant this. People are saying
Speaker 3: this is what this means. And I can see that
Speaker 3: this is what it means. Yeah.
Speaker 2: It's like when I play Fortnite and Call of Duty.
Speaker 1: Warzone two of the most popular games certainly for streaming
Speaker 1: and for people to play, and I think war Zone
Speaker 1: launched in March of twenty twenty, so basically in conjunction
Speaker 1: with Quarantine, And you know, the basic setup is you
Speaker 1: were dropped on two an island or in Eastern Eva,
Speaker 1: vaguely Eastern European battle space right with one hundred other players,
Speaker 1: and you either compete against them one on one or
Speaker 1: you split up in teams of four to compete against
Speaker 1: the other teams, and you scavenge weapons and AMMO and
Speaker 1: share them amongst your team, and so there is this
Speaker 1: kind of like negotiating for resources thing that's going on. Meanwhile,
Speaker 1: you're competing in a battle space that is shrinking all
Speaker 1: the time. There's this circle that is gradually getting smaller,
Speaker 1: and if you are outside that circle, you are taking damage,
Speaker 1: but if you're inside the circle, you remain safe.
Speaker 3: Ah, that is.
Speaker 2: So interesting because that's from bower House.
Speaker 1: So they're right, and I think, you know, at least
Speaker 1: for me, it's like we are constantly inundated in the
Speaker 1: news with story upon story about like the unstoppable nature
Speaker 1: of climate change and how it is shrinking the livable
Speaker 1: space of the world. There's fires over here, there's crazy
Speaker 1: storms over here, you know, extreme temperatures here, populations on
Speaker 1: the move, and it seems like the people who are
Speaker 1: supposed to do something about it are completely powerless to
Speaker 1: do anything about it, because, like in squid game. The
Speaker 1: game itself has its own agency and it is pursuing
Speaker 1: its own ends. The game wants to exist and wants
Speaker 1: to continue being played, and no one really has any
Speaker 1: power to stop the game from doing its thing. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And I think a lot of the ways that people
Speaker 1: and again this is my own theory, this is what
Speaker 1: I would put forward, is the way that a lot
Speaker 1: of people are working through their anxieties about climate change,
Speaker 1: about the pandemic, about the future are games like Fortnite,
Speaker 1: Call of Duty, Warzone, Apex, Legends, shows and stories like
Speaker 1: Battle Royale, where you put yourself in the shoes of
Speaker 1: people in this world of dwindling resources, of shrinking livable space,
Speaker 1: and you are presented with the question what would you
Speaker 1: do to survive to continue playing the game?
Speaker 3: Yeah. I also think that something that's really interesting, specifically
Speaker 3: in the space of like bower Yal of Squid Game,
Speaker 3: Hunger Games, even like it's also really interesting. So Boweryal
Speaker 3: is like the idea is that because of student delinquency
Speaker 3: and population kind of huge population stuff, they're gonna just
Speaker 3: get classes of kids to kill each other off, right,
Speaker 3: And in squid Game, are Gian are in character is
Speaker 3: an addict So I think something that is really appealing
Speaker 3: about these stories is these characters who are put into
Speaker 3: these situations are not putting inverted commas good. You get
Speaker 3: flawed characters in Boweryal the kids, you see one of
Speaker 3: the kids stab at teacher like, but they still deserve
Speaker 3: to live and not be put in these terrible situations,
Speaker 3: and squid Game is a really expanded version of that
Speaker 3: because the long form storytelling means we get to meet
Speaker 3: all these different people and learn the different things that
Speaker 3: drive them and the struggles that they've had and the
Speaker 3: ways that they choose to live their lives and why.
Speaker 3: And I think that people really want that empathy for
Speaker 3: themselves and they want to hopefully have that empathy for
Speaker 3: other people. So I think that kind of having these
Speaker 3: stories where flawed people are put in terrible situations by
Speaker 3: extremely rich, terrible people making decisions that do not help them,
Speaker 3: that's probably very relatable to a lot of people. And
Speaker 3: I think that kind of the bad rich people having
Speaker 3: fun at the expense of people struggling who are just
Speaker 3: trying to do their best, that is a very relatable story.
Speaker 3: And like you said, it's also something we see on
Speaker 3: the news. It's something that we see in real life.
Speaker 3: So to see it in a more entertainment focused way
Speaker 3: that is also a little bit more searing and satirical
Speaker 3: and kind of pointed, is really appealing.
Speaker 1: I mean, I think that there is something quite trenchant
Speaker 1: for people watching the Squid Game. You know, the idea
Speaker 1: of if you fall into debt. You know, if you
Speaker 1: have some debts, if you've made some maybe poor ECN
Speaker 1: choices or just had bad luck, or if you are elderly,
Speaker 1: you have no value to this society and therefore you
Speaker 1: will you can quite possibly fall into this game. Where
Speaker 1: as brutal as it is, the outcome is basically your
Speaker 1: only shot at upward mobility within the larger context of
Speaker 1: the capitalist system. There is something like brutally truthful about that.
Speaker 1: Although it's hard for me to escape with all of
Speaker 1: these stories, whether it's Battle Royal, Hunger Game, What Have
Speaker 1: You Saw, and then Squid Game, even Parasite, it's an
Speaker 1: incredibly trenching critique of the system, but there is no
Speaker 1: revolutionary answer. The only kind of catharsis at the end
Speaker 1: of Squid Game spoiler is that the human capacity for
Speaker 1: generosity can somehow disrupt the game. But the game continues.
Speaker 1: There is no overthrowing of the game. You know, uh
Speaker 1: song gi Hun just merely decides that he will reject
Speaker 1: the reward. It's not that he wins or even you know,
Speaker 1: unmasks or overthrows the people throwing the game. Yeah.
Speaker 3: I think even like Hunger Games is really really famous
Speaker 3: in the YA community because even though technically there's a revolution,
Speaker 3: it's led by Catus. You know. The end of the
Speaker 3: book is like she has like complex PTSD and hates
Speaker 3: her life and she just lives in this winner's town
Speaker 3: and it's just terrible. And the kind of implication is
Speaker 3: like things don't really get better like it's and that
Speaker 3: I think that is really that's one of the most brutal.
Speaker 3: But also I guess maybe something that really makes these
Speaker 3: stories stand out is they don't often have a happy end. Yeah,
Speaker 3: like squid Game promises maybe he's gonna maybe he's not
Speaker 3: gonna just go on living his life, like he's gonna
Speaker 3: try and maybe do something, but what can he do?
Speaker 4: You know?
Speaker 3: And I think I think squid Games specifically is really
Speaker 3: interesting look at kind of complicity or like how how
Speaker 3: far we would go in that system to kind of
Speaker 3: achieve what we want. Because the episode Gumbao, like the Marbles.
Speaker 1: Episodes, episode six, which is the yeah, the the brutal episode.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's just so horrible, but like I'm pretty sure
Speaker 3: from thinking about it and watching it, the episode is
Speaker 3: really you have to team up with someone that you trust.
Speaker 3: They team them up and then they pit them against
Speaker 3: each other in any game of marbles, and all you've
Speaker 3: got to do is get the other the other players
Speaker 3: ten marbles, right, and it's horrible. We see sang Wu
Speaker 3: completely betray Ali, who's like the one of the sweetest
Speaker 3: characters in the show. It's just it's it's a masterclass
Speaker 3: intention and sadness and devastation. But I'm pretty sure that
Speaker 3: that episode is really really key to how squid Game
Speaker 3: works because sang Wu based Lee, who is this star
Speaker 3: of his local area. He went to financial college. He's
Speaker 3: seen as this huge success, but the truth is he's
Speaker 3: in lots of debt and he's an incredibly selfish person.
Speaker 3: As we learn as show goes on. He essentially tricks
Speaker 3: Ali into giving him his marbles and then he says,
Speaker 3: you know, don't I win. If that logic works, then
Speaker 3: every single person there could have just swapped bags of
Speaker 3: marbles with the other person. But I think the kind
Speaker 3: of point of the episode is by that point, they're
Speaker 3: so entrenched in the system that all they can think
Speaker 3: about is like brutality.
Speaker 2: That's a good point.
Speaker 1: I think that what I took away from that episode,
Speaker 1: and what I took away from you know, like so
Speaker 1: Jihun's player four five six is ongoing support for player one,
Speaker 1: the Lily character, is that what the story is telling
Speaker 1: us is that if you pursue your self interest rationally,
Speaker 1: you become part of the system and complicit in its brutality. Right,
Speaker 1: So therefore the way forward, the heroic way forward, is
Speaker 1: to trust your own irrational intuition, right, and emotional connection
Speaker 1: with a person. There's actually no good reason why four
Speaker 1: or five six should select o wil Nam as his
Speaker 1: partner or select him for any of the game, Like,
Speaker 1: there's no good rational reason. He does it because he
Speaker 1: sees that man, and he says, I just feel a
Speaker 1: connection to him, I feel warmly towards him for whatever reason,
Speaker 1: and therefore I'm gonna have him on my team for
Speaker 1: no good reason. But then that becomes the thing that
Speaker 1: allows him to move forward in the game.
Speaker 2: And makes him the hero of our story.
Speaker 1: And it's actually like a quite sad idea, but an
Speaker 1: interesting idea as well, in the way that people make decisions,
Speaker 1: which is that I personally believe that most of us
Speaker 1: make decisions not for reasons of like that we derive
Speaker 1: from rational thought or intellect. We make emotional, intuitive decisions,
Speaker 1: and then we backmap whatever our personal intellectual philosophy is
Speaker 1: on it and say, here's the reason I did that
Speaker 1: based on these criteria, when actually I just made an
Speaker 1: emotional decision. And I think that's that's a lot of
Speaker 1: what happens with player four five six year. He makes
Speaker 1: these emotional, generous decisions that are not based on anything
Speaker 1: rational at all, and he quote unquote wins mm hmm.
Speaker 3: Yeah. There's like I think that's one of the other
Speaker 3: things that probably has made this show so huge. There's
Speaker 3: so many different readings of it and conversations to be
Speaker 3: had and moments, and it's in that sense, like it's
Speaker 3: a real like water cooler show. Even though a lot
Speaker 3: of people aren't in the office. People are talking about online,
Speaker 3: they're talking about it to their friends, They're dming people.
Speaker 3: My friend was like texting our other friends at midnight
Speaker 3: talking about the episodes that they'd watched because they were
Speaker 3: just so like heartbroken by episode six. And I think
Speaker 3: in that way that's also part of its power, because
Speaker 3: they're just all these different readings, and there's also all
Speaker 3: these I'm sure there's people who would be like, yeah,
Speaker 3: I would do what sang Wu did. I would I
Speaker 3: would just do whatever I needed to do to get
Speaker 3: that money and fix my life, and then there's other
Speaker 3: people who are just like, what the fuck is wrong
Speaker 3: with you? I also think another thing that probably appeals
Speaker 3: to people about this show is his character is presented
Speaker 3: as higher education makes you smarter, it makes you better,
Speaker 3: you have succeeded, you are wealthy, but actually he is
Speaker 3: the most morally questionable person that we get to meet
Speaker 3: in the show. And I think that that inversion of
Speaker 3: the idea of like wealthiness and success being next to
Speaker 3: kind of moral goodness or or kind of how well
Speaker 3: your life is, which obviously we're getting a lot of
Speaker 3: good critiques in succession, like rich people are terrible, but yeah,
Speaker 3: I think that. I also think that's really interesting because
Speaker 3: I think in a lot of stories, player four five'
Speaker 3: six would be the character you couldn't trust or the
Speaker 3: character that you're supposed to think is morally has a
Speaker 3: gray area, but really he also goes on that journey
Speaker 3: of realizing it's actually his childhood friend who was meant
Speaker 3: to be this huge, great success. And I think that's
Speaker 3: really interesting.
Speaker 2: How would you do in squid game? How would you
Speaker 2: do in the game.
Speaker 3: I'd be really bad at it, man, Like I know
Speaker 3: in the odd days, I would have been like I
Speaker 3: used to have like a Zombie Apocalypse fan. I that
Speaker 3: Orio was such a formative movie for me. There was
Speaker 3: like three halloweens when I was a teenager that I
Speaker 3: made a bout O Rio costume. I had a shirt
Speaker 3: that was like screen printed, like a white school shirt
Speaker 3: that was screen printed with the girl getting shot on
Speaker 3: the edge of the rocks. Like I loved that movie
Speaker 3: so much. But I'm just like a soft I'm like
Speaker 3: a soft boy. I would I would not be able
Speaker 3: to kill anyone. I would be like helping everyone.
Speaker 1: I will, well, that would make you the cure of
Speaker 1: the story, like in any of these self interest stories,
Speaker 1: you know, like it's the.
Speaker 3: Would die horribly like a I would know, you know what.
Speaker 3: I was watching this show and I thinking a lot.
Speaker 3: And there was definitely a time when I was nineteen whatever,
Speaker 3: and I was super fucking poor and I was just
Speaker 3: living my life. There is a time when I could
Speaker 3: imagine in a fictional world that I would have been
Speaker 3: enticed by something similar in a fictional sense, like and
Speaker 3: in that way, maybe I would have had the survival
Speaker 3: and think, but now I'm in my thirties, I just
Speaker 3: want to like drink some tea and like chill. I
Speaker 3: would just be like, I'd be like, I'm not going
Speaker 3: in there, like I don't need the money. I'll be
Speaker 3: because I'm gonna die. How would you do?
Speaker 1: No, I think i'd be like, so, red light, green light,
Speaker 1: I'd be fine, let's go through them, let's see okay, Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's a good idea.
Speaker 2: Let's just go to so yeah, let's just go down there.
Speaker 3: So I'm clumsy, red light, I'd be shot straight away.
Speaker 2: Red Light, green Light.
Speaker 1: I think I'd be okay because I think I would
Speaker 1: realize off the bad what it was.
Speaker 2: What is the second game?
Speaker 4: The vote?
Speaker 1: This is where they vote. I would vote leave, it's
Speaker 1: not worth like, you know, whatever else is going on
Speaker 1: in my.
Speaker 2: Life, I would definitely leave.
Speaker 5: Uh.
Speaker 1: And then so then they're outside and then we get
Speaker 1: of war game where they have to think strategically. I'm
Speaker 1: bad at tugger war like, I would not be good.
Speaker 3: Like no upper arm strength, I would I would lose.
Speaker 3: I think unless they had a cool strategic.
Speaker 1: We would need someone like oh Illnam to talk us through. Okay,
Speaker 1: we need the strongest person in the back. Everybody set
Speaker 1: their feet facing straight. You pull as hard as you
Speaker 1: can for sixty Yeah, it's like okay, and then so
Speaker 1: that one I would do bad. Let's see the next game. Okay,
Speaker 1: the marbles game, forget it. I don't know that I'd
Speaker 1: be killed. I would be end up being shot.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I would just I would just try and convince someone.
Speaker 3: Like when you had the two young girls, you know,
Speaker 3: and they didn't know any games because they're not like
Speaker 3: boomers and they're young. I was like, just make up
Speaker 3: a game, they said, any game. Just make up a
Speaker 3: game called Swap Season, swap your marbles. In the situation,
Speaker 3: maybe that one I could potentially survive just by out
Speaker 3: with them. But then again, they'd probably be pissed that
Speaker 3: I did that and then shoot me in the head.
Speaker 3: So I would probably I definitely would have died during
Speaker 3: the Honeycomb.
Speaker 1: Game, I have like zero god that one, yeah detailed
Speaker 1: that one, I'd be okay.
Speaker 3: If it was the licking, I could have worked. If
Speaker 3: I'd have seen player four five six licking it, then
Speaker 3: I would have been fine. But with the needle, I
Speaker 3: definitely would have broken.
Speaker 2: The Honeycomb game, I'd be fine.
Speaker 1: And then there's the glass Walkways game that one I
Speaker 1: would just I would fall. I would fall, And I
Speaker 1: don't have the canniness to like betray somebody else or
Speaker 1: push somebody else onto the thing and be like you
Speaker 1: go first.
Speaker 3: So the only thing I think that they obviously missed
Speaker 3: there that I would have I would have tried to
Speaker 3: do this, but I also would have still fallen because
Speaker 3: I'm very short and I can't jump very far. But
Speaker 3: like I think that they should have taken the shoes
Speaker 3: that they took off and throw them, use them to
Speaker 3: throw on the glass. I don't see any rule against them.
Speaker 1: A lot of times, yeah door just like bash on
Speaker 1: it with your hand. Could you just like reach exhaust
Speaker 1: and like bash on it. They were like they were
Speaker 1: committed too much to jump. Okay, so what if it
Speaker 1: was squid game?
Speaker 3: But can do you.
Speaker 2: Think you Oh, I think i'd win.
Speaker 1: I think i'd be good at I also think i'd
Speaker 1: be good at the actual squid game. I think i'd
Speaker 1: be pretty good at that because I'm wiley and I
Speaker 1: have I can I'm not fast, but I can fake
Speaker 1: you out. I think I have some good fakes. I
Speaker 1: think I'd be all right at that game, but I
Speaker 1: don't I would be killed. I'd be killed somewhere in
Speaker 1: the middle of this game. No, there's no question. Certainly,
Speaker 1: like when the lights went out and everybody started massacring
Speaker 1: each other, like at that point, I would probably be killed.
Speaker 3: I would definitely be dead. I know. I was like,
Speaker 3: I was trying to think of, like what other like
Speaker 3: funny games. They would like Squid Game, but it's like
Speaker 3: musical chas. That would be like so Grim to Die
Speaker 3: with musical chas.
Speaker 1: Rotten Tomatoes ninety one percent critics approval, eighty five percent
Speaker 1: audience approval. It's certainly one of the zeitgeistiest hits in
Speaker 1: recent memory. If you haven't watched Battle Royale and you're like, oh,
Speaker 1: what is is there anything else like this?
Speaker 2: Go rent the movie Battle Royal and watch it.
Speaker 3: Pitch it to our y yeah, So it's really just
Speaker 3: one of the most important kind of Japanese movies of
Speaker 3: that era. It was based on a book that came
Speaker 3: out in nineteen ninety nine. Within a year they'd made
Speaker 3: a manga and a movie of it. The book is
Speaker 3: by Koshin Takami and Kinji Fuksaku, who directed Bow Royal
Speaker 3: is like a really famous Japanese war movie director. So
Speaker 3: it's just it's this epicn scope but intimate in story.
Speaker 3: It stars beat Takeshi as a teacher who ends up
Speaker 3: overseeing this class of kids who have been drugged. Very
Speaker 3: much like there's a lot of stuff that Squid Game
Speaker 3: touches on from Boweryal. They get gassed on their way
Speaker 3: on a school trip. They end upon this island. They
Speaker 3: each given a random weapon. It can be anything from
Speaker 3: a dustbin lid to a side or an ak forty seven.
Speaker 3: There's a kid on the island who's played the game before.
Speaker 3: He's just a psychopath. He has a machine gun. And
Speaker 3: it is very similar to Squid Game in the nature
Speaker 3: of like what would you do, would you team up?
Speaker 3: Would you not team up? It has unbelievably cool aesthetics.
Speaker 3: It's just such a cool movie and it and it
Speaker 3: has you know, it's it's kind of funny because I
Speaker 3: think watching it now, like some people, if you haven't
Speaker 3: seen it before, you'll you'll kind of be like, oh,
Speaker 3: this is a little bit like Tame. It's very brutal.
Speaker 3: There's a lot of violence, but it has u there's
Speaker 3: quiet moments, and those also lead to some of the
Speaker 3: best most brutal sections. Like I would just say, if
Speaker 3: you're watching it, keep an eye out for the lighthouse.
Speaker 3: I always remember that. Another thing I would say that's
Speaker 3: really key to look into if you enjoyed this is
Speaker 3: So there's a manga called Kaiji and I know that.
Speaker 3: I think Reddit and a lot of other places have
Speaker 3: been very much have been like really keen on talking
Speaker 3: about this because so Kagi's by a nobodyuk Fu Kamoto.
Speaker 3: It's among from Night and Night six They've got and
Speaker 3: the first arc is called Gambling Apocalypse, and then it
Speaker 3: became an anime called Ultimate Survivor, and it's basically about
Speaker 3: a gambling addict who gets really really into debt and
Speaker 3: then gets asked to play dangerous games to solve his debts. Now,
Speaker 3: you don't end up dying in this, you end up
Speaker 3: getting put into manual labor if you lose. But like
Speaker 3: the first game he plays is like a rock paper
Speaker 3: scissors game. Bowery and Kaiji are the two things I
Speaker 3: think you would probably just absolutely love to jump into
Speaker 3: if you're looking for a deadly games story that has
Speaker 3: echoes of that social commentary. I wrote an article at
Speaker 3: Nerdice like nine things to watch after Squid Game that's
Speaker 3: a bit more broad and kind of looks at different
Speaker 3: kind of social commentary movies and shows. But those are
Speaker 3: the two things I think, And Bowerial is definitely at top.
Speaker 3: I think it's actually streaming free stream like to be
Speaker 3: put IMV Amazon.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, it's been fascinating to talk about Rosie.
Speaker 2: Up next, The Hive Mind.
Speaker 1: Welcome to the Hive Mind, where we dive deeper into
Speaker 1: a specific topic. This week, X ray Vision is including
Speaker 1: a conversation with two producers on the acclaimed anime anthology
Speaker 1: series Star Wars Visions, Jackie Lopez, VP of Franchise Production
Speaker 1: at Lucasfilm Animation and Kanako sher Asaki, head of production
Speaker 1: at Cubic Pictures. Before we get into it, what's your
Speaker 1: relationship to animation? How did you get into this line
Speaker 1: of work, which is you know I have Whenever I'm
Speaker 1: speaking to people who have what I would call cool jobs,
Speaker 1: it's always I always love asking them how they got
Speaker 1: into it, because, you know, it's for me as a
Speaker 1: fan of all this stuff, the idea that you could
Speaker 1: have as your job, you know, working for Lucasfilm or
Speaker 1: working for Cubic and doing all this animation stuff. It's
Speaker 1: so cool and so interesting, and I'm sure there's a
Speaker 1: lot of people who would love to know.
Speaker 2: How do you do it?
Speaker 1: How did it happen? So what is your personal relationship
Speaker 1: with animation? How did you get into this story with
Speaker 1: Jackie Hi?
Speaker 7: Well, I feel like I got into it in a
Speaker 7: very circuitous fashion. So I feel like a lot of
Speaker 7: people I know who are in this business have a
Speaker 7: very similar story. So for those out there, it's like
Speaker 7: sometimes there's many many ways into cool jobs, and I
Speaker 7: do think my job is cool. I started in live action.
Speaker 7: I always loved films, so I started in live action
Speaker 7: production and then fell into a niche corner of visual effects,
Speaker 7: and I just loved the craftsmanship of visual effects, you know,
Speaker 7: miniatures and puppets and pyrotechnics. It was just really the
Speaker 7: collaboration with really smart people was just I was drawn to.
Speaker 7: And as visual effects progressed, we started doing more and
Speaker 7: more animation and animation into live action plates. And the
Speaker 7: more I did that, the more I realized, Wow, I
Speaker 7: really love telling the story with these animated characters as
Speaker 7: the main protagonists. And so I BeO Wolf. I did
Speaker 7: Beowulf with Robertson Mechis, and I've just been in animation
Speaker 7: ever since. I just love it. I love two D,
Speaker 7: I love three D, and I've been fortunate enough to
Speaker 7: sort of be able to dabble in all of those formats, so.
Speaker 5: I'd be always interesting mutual understanding through different cultures. I'm Japanese,
Speaker 5: but my half families are from China, and I grew
Speaker 5: up in Japan is half Japanese and half Chinese. So
Speaker 5: really interesting that type of And after I moved to
Speaker 5: New York, I worked for a non profit organization there's
Speaker 5: cultural Japanese cultural promotion through performing arts over other related areas,
Speaker 5: so I was in charge of the section of performing
Speaker 5: arts and films. And during that time I met Justin Leach,
Speaker 5: the CEO of the QB Pictures, as a friend and
Speaker 5: in New York because there are so many film screening
Speaker 5: or animal film screening in New York, so I occasionally
Speaker 5: see him. And then I went back to Japan and
Speaker 5: he suddenly texted me saying, hey, kind of go are
Speaker 5: you free in December because I go to Tokyo and
Speaker 5: I have a meeting with these people and I need
Speaker 5: someone who helped me to coordinate these things and do
Speaker 5: the translation for my meeting. And I was taking off
Speaker 5: that time, but I was like, sure, it sounds interesting,
Speaker 5: he says animas. I was like, okay, sure I can
Speaker 5: do that. And that's how I got into through Cubic Pictures.
Speaker 5: So that's one text message when Justin really changed my life.
Speaker 1: You know, everyone that I speak to and ask that
Speaker 1: question too, they've all got, you know, to Jackie's point,
Speaker 1: a really interesting path to get there to Star Wars Visions.
Speaker 1: How did the how did the project start to take shape?
Speaker 2: And how did you.
Speaker 1: Select the studios that ended up taking taking part in this?
Speaker 7: Either of you, I would say anime doing an anime
Speaker 7: project has been on our minds at Lucasfilm for a
Speaker 7: very long time. Where all fans knew George Lucas was
Speaker 7: not only a fan of Japanese cinema, but he was
Speaker 7: also a big fan of Japanese animation, you know, with Mizaki, yes,
Speaker 7: but also it went deeper than that, and we were
Speaker 7: always looking for the right time or the right way
Speaker 7: to do a Star Wars expression in anime, and I
Speaker 7: think as D plus we got up and running it
Speaker 7: sort of afforded us an opportunity in a way to
Speaker 7: move forward on this different expression of Star Wars. And
Speaker 7: then choosing the different studios was very difficult because there
Speaker 7: are really so many, so many talented studios right now
Speaker 7: in Japan doing excellent work. And that's where kind of
Speaker 7: going justin really helped us curate what we were looking for,
Speaker 7: because we knew we wanted a variety of styles and storytelling,
Speaker 7: to the heavy action, to the heartwarming, to the slow
Speaker 7: and serene. So it was really kind of going justin
Speaker 7: helping guide us. There are some we knew we wanted
Speaker 7: to go to, but then they were introducing us to
Speaker 7: the works of many others kind of if you want
Speaker 7: to expand.
Speaker 5: On that, sure, yeah. So what we really wanted to
Speaker 5: show is that there's no one type of Japanese anime.
Speaker 5: There's like it has like like many there's many different
Speaker 5: types of movie. There's many different type of Japanese anime
Speaker 5: and has different style and storytelling, different style and visual expression.
Speaker 5: So since this might be for some people this is
Speaker 5: the first time seeing Japanese anime, so we really wanted
Speaker 5: to make sure there's going to be a great introduction
Speaker 5: for them who doesn't really who are not familiar with
Speaker 5: Japanese anime. So justin also like he was, he used
Speaker 5: to work at Production IG before and knows uh so
Speaker 5: many has so many connections in Japanese anime industry, so
Speaker 5: he did lots of extensive research and in which studios
Speaker 5: to reach out to.
Speaker 1: If you had to break it down, what are the
Speaker 1: kind of main styles within anime, what are the main
Speaker 1: schools and you know aesthetic styles that we see and
Speaker 1: how did you try to present those to Lucasfilms as
Speaker 1: possible expressions for this project.
Speaker 5: I think that also the style changes by like a decade,
Speaker 5: like if you look at the nineties animation and like
Speaker 5: animations from two twenty ten and from the ten years
Speaker 5: from there, like the trend in character designs look so
Speaker 5: different as well as like it was one hundred person
Speaker 5: hand painted before and now there's a three D c
Speaker 5: G animation a little bit, and there's a combination of
Speaker 5: these two. So I think the visual expression of change
Speaker 5: a lot since then, but the core storytelling might be
Speaker 5: the same throughout. They have a theme for like families
Speaker 5: or like relationship between characters. So what we really trying
Speaker 5: to show here was like we wanted to show the
Speaker 5: production I g. Like the industry veteran who's being there
Speaker 5: for really long time, to like a very young studio,
Speaker 5: like a studio co Rado and Jena studio who has
Speaker 5: really like fresh ideas and trying to find like a
Speaker 5: new artist to bring out a new expressions. So that
Speaker 5: is yeah, that is what we are looking for when
Speaker 5: we are in discussion.
Speaker 1: And Jackie, how did the engagement, the creative part of
Speaker 1: this process work. What kind of guidelines, if any, did
Speaker 1: Lucasfilm give the studios or was it just give us
Speaker 1: your wildest pitch?
Speaker 7: Well, I think in the beginning it was sort of
Speaker 7: you know, what would your story be, what kind of
Speaker 7: story would you want to tell? And we asked for
Speaker 7: pitches from the studios and we said you could just
Speaker 7: give us one if you only have one idea, or
Speaker 7: if you have a few go ahead and let us
Speaker 7: know what those are. And so we didn't really give
Speaker 7: guidelines at the beginning, so we got some really great
Speaker 7: pitches in and then we had to curate from there,
Speaker 7: you know, because if there were two that were kind
Speaker 7: of the same or focused on the same type of story,
Speaker 7: we kind of curated the stories and.
Speaker 5: Then from there.
Speaker 7: You know, we were nervous because I know, these Japanese
Speaker 7: creatives that we went out to, you know, they're not
Speaker 7: used to creative guidance like that, right, because that's there.
Speaker 7: So we try to be very respectful of that and
Speaker 7: just sort of help them give guidelines or dig out
Speaker 7: the story a little more. But it went very smoothly.
Speaker 7: I mean, we were dealing working with people who are
Speaker 7: really professional and great at their craft, so I would
Speaker 7: say we just had little bumpers, but it was really
Speaker 7: their stories and their visions that we helped bring to
Speaker 7: the screen.
Speaker 1: As you mentioned, y'all were looking for a range of
Speaker 1: styles and tones. Do you have any favorites from the
Speaker 1: series that or stand out moments that you just personally like,
Speaker 1: really vibe with you really like Knaco.
Speaker 5: Oh, that's hard to pick a favorite moments because there's like,
Speaker 5: there are just so many great moments. I would say, like,
Speaker 5: so four studios did the sound mixing together was Skywalker
Speaker 5: Sound and it's like remotely so people connecting through the
Speaker 5: Internet and then listen to the odeo. That was really
Speaker 5: cool experience because that is a great cooboration between the
Speaker 5: Skywalker sound and the studios in Japan. Many Japanese people
Speaker 5: are shy a little bit in front of camera, so
Speaker 5: the first reaction they listened to Skywalker sound mix was
Speaker 5: a little difficult for us to decode. I was like,
Speaker 5: and then we don't really see everyone's reaction because camera
Speaker 5: is a one part of one section of the studio
Speaker 5: in Japan, so we only see like a black wolves
Speaker 5: and some people moving around.
Speaker 7: And it was silent, it was violent.
Speaker 1: I in a previous life, I was a jazz musician.
Speaker 1: I did this number of gigs in Osaka and Fukawoka
Speaker 1: in Japan a few years ago, and I remember for
Speaker 1: Blue Note Records, and the person who brought us there
Speaker 1: told us he was like, listen, when you're done with
Speaker 1: the song, you they'll be quiet. But that doesn't mean
Speaker 1: they know they like it. Believe me, they like it,
Speaker 1: but they're not going to make any sound, so just
Speaker 1: be ready for that.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 7: Yeah, I wish someone would have told us, Jason.
Speaker 5: So it was. I was trying to say, like, I'm
Speaker 5: sure they like it, but I remember there's the mixed
Speaker 5: session was dual, like we heard like after the quiet moment,
Speaker 5: we heard the key Hen Club being from Japan, and
Speaker 5: then they fit like they just like had a goose
Speaker 5: bump and then they couldn't really say anything. I'll be
Speaker 5: watching their animation with like Star Wars sound on it.
Speaker 5: So that was a cool moment. Yeah, I really perish, Jackie.
Speaker 1: Any favorite favorite moments, favorite parts of the series, favorite episodes?
Speaker 5: Wow, kind of go and.
Speaker 7: I talk about this all the time because our favorites
Speaker 7: shift from day to day, from week to week, and
Speaker 7: my favorites at script page change when it got to storyboards,
Speaker 7: and then changed again when it got to color, and
Speaker 7: now they change every day. I'm watching it with my
Speaker 7: family now on D Plus, And the more I watch them,
Speaker 7: the more I sort of extract from each one, you know,
Speaker 7: the depth of meaning really like, oh, I see now
Speaker 7: that's connect you know. I see new things in them
Speaker 7: every time I see them, and I have new favorites
Speaker 7: every different days, so it's really hard to choose a favorite.
Speaker 7: I really really love them all in it for different reasons.
Speaker 1: Jack, you spoke about the craftsmanship that is there in
Speaker 1: the animation space through both of your experience in this field, Like,
Speaker 1: what is the thing that just most impresses you about
Speaker 1: the craftsmanship? Because you know, when I watch I have
Speaker 1: some friends that do animation and illustration, the amount of
Speaker 1: work that goes into it, it's mind blowing for some
Speaker 1: an image that blows by you in a blink of
Speaker 1: an eye, and I'm just always just dumbfounded by that,
Speaker 1: the amount of work that goes into something that moves
Speaker 1: so quickly. What from that space is something that you
Speaker 1: just like to tell people, look at how much work
Speaker 1: goes into this.
Speaker 7: To me, it's the drawing when you're working in to date,
Speaker 7: just people's ability to draw. And there's different programs now
Speaker 7: that animation two D animators can that help with some
Speaker 7: of that in betweens and some things like that, But
Speaker 7: I feel like the craftsmanship that's coming out of Tokyo
Speaker 7: is still pretty heavily reliant on people who can draw,
Speaker 7: and it blows me away. I've been around it for
Speaker 7: decades and just people who can draw like volume and anatomy.
Speaker 7: It just never ceases to amaze me. And not on
Speaker 7: this project, but about four years ago I was able
Speaker 7: to be in Tokyo and visit some of a couple
Speaker 7: of studios and just saying that a lot of the
Speaker 7: way they draw is still on paper, and you know,
Speaker 7: it's very handcrafted still. You know, they're putting all their
Speaker 7: sheets in a folder every day for the animation director
Speaker 7: to review and a raise and draw on top of
Speaker 7: It's just these people aren't I mean, obviously they're artists,
Speaker 7: but they're really truly artisans. It should never be minimized
Speaker 7: how much work it is. And you're right, people don't
Speaker 7: understand that, but it takes to create one of these totally.
Speaker 5: Uh. Some of the studio, I think it's a general
Speaker 5: studio and the studio Cororido. They post some side by
Speaker 5: side comparison movie on Twitter so you can see the
Speaker 5: pencil drawing animation and the final animation and it's just
Speaker 5: a you know, mind blowing like, oh my god, like
Speaker 5: how can you make that? Lots like the furughly ear
Speaker 5: and all the hares moves so beautifully even in the
Speaker 5: pencil drawing and then the end like final frame is like,
Speaker 5: of course it's beautiful, but it's just so wonderful watch.
Speaker 5: And I think the passion of each creator has is
Speaker 5: like really huge, and I think there's really hugely still
Speaker 5: believe in that what can anime do in terms of
Speaker 5: the story an expression, And I think that's really stems
Speaker 5: out in Japanese anime.
Speaker 7: I guess I could watch the hair from the karen
Speaker 7: AM's bangs over their faces in The Twins forever. I
Speaker 7: just sometimes I can't even watch the story. I'm just
Speaker 7: staring at it because there's something just mesmerizing and beautiful
Speaker 7: about it. You know. What is also interesting is the
Speaker 7: studios had to adjust and do this during COVID, and
Speaker 7: so many of their artists were working at home. And
Speaker 7: one story I heard is they had to send runners
Speaker 7: by the animators homes every night to pick up their drawings,
Speaker 7: and you know, so that animator would leave it downstairs
Speaker 7: on their porch or in their laundry room, and the
Speaker 7: runner would come by every ninety grab their drawings, which
Speaker 7: I'm like, oh my god, it's really amazing that they
Speaker 7: were able to get this done over through COVID.
Speaker 1: We've seen that particularly the Ronin from the first episode
Speaker 1: of The Jewel. It's going to be the subject of
Speaker 1: novelization where Star Wars is no stranger to characters from
Speaker 1: their animation side crossing over into the live action side.
Speaker 1: We recently saw the much beloved Asokatano in The Mandalorian.
Speaker 1: I don't know if you could break news or if
Speaker 1: you would even know, but it seems like that would
Speaker 1: be a possibility, right if fans really gravitate towards a
Speaker 1: particular character, could it happen?
Speaker 2: Could we see one of these characters cross over?
Speaker 7: Never say never, is my answer to that, because I'm
Speaker 7: with you that some of these characters feel like they
Speaker 7: could fit right perfectly into the cannon, you know, and
Speaker 7: you want to see them again.
Speaker 5: You want to.
Speaker 7: See what their journey has led to and who they
Speaker 7: aligned with, and you know, so I absolutely hope so.
Speaker 7: I mean, I'm sure when George and Dave Filoni made
Speaker 7: up a Soka ten years ago, they had no idea, right,
Speaker 7: so things take on a life of their own though.
Speaker 1: If any of these characters could cross over, who would
Speaker 1: you like to see to it?
Speaker 5: I love to see like a touching rhopsesses band a
Speaker 5: style waiver just like to have a concert in different
Speaker 5: bar in different planets, like they can easily be in background,
Speaker 5: and you know, personally, it doesn't have to be like
Speaker 5: they doesn't have to be like a very successful band
Speaker 5: in the galaxy. But even though they still like doing
Speaker 5: the rocks, you know after five ten years.
Speaker 7: That's so funny. I'd love to see them at Galaxy's Edge.
Speaker 1: Yes, I had. I had a pitch to one of
Speaker 1: our other guests, Alex, who has a very popular YouTube
Speaker 1: channel where he it basically talks about Star Wars, star
Speaker 1: Wars Explained, stars called star Wars Explains and it's you know,
Speaker 1: of course the Max Rebo band later was at Jaba's
Speaker 1: palace playing for the assembled guests there day in day out.
Speaker 1: My pitch to him was what if Star Waver was
Speaker 1: Jaba's entry into the music business. That's how he got
Speaker 1: the bug and how he started loving music. That's my pitch. Anyway,
Speaker 1: I love it. Are we going to see a Star
Speaker 1: Wars vision season two at some point?
Speaker 7: You know, I don't think we've seen the last of
Speaker 7: Star Wars visions. I think it's a great way to
Speaker 7: see different expressions of Star Wars, and so my hope
Speaker 7: is that this is definitely not the last.
Speaker 2: Jackie Cana Goo, thank you for joining us.
Speaker 7: Thank you, Jason, I love your passion. Thank you so much, A.
Speaker 1: Big fan of it. Up next, the Endgame, Rosie. We
Speaker 1: are in the end game now, and this leak we
Speaker 1: are playing deadly games. The question is this which murder
Speaker 1: game set up?
Speaker 2: Right? So, which murder game set up?
Speaker 5: You have?
Speaker 1: Squid game, death Race, the Purge, old School, the most
Speaker 1: dangerous game? You want to get divergent on us, you
Speaker 1: could do that, Lord of the Flies. Which of these
Speaker 1: would you excel at? Would you pick to be placed in?
Speaker 2: And why?
Speaker 5: Hmmm?
Speaker 3: Well, squid games off, Bowerols off. The punch seems vaguely
Speaker 3: appealing to me because I could just potentially look myself
Speaker 3: at my house.
Speaker 2: Or you don't have to do anything. You could just like.
Speaker 3: Also the punch, I could do like I could like
Speaker 3: cancel student loans or something. I mean, everything's illegal, everything's legal.
Speaker 3: I could do some cool like venom hacking.
Speaker 1: You know, I would pull the I would pull those
Speaker 1: do not remove tags off my mattresses.
Speaker 2: I would do that. Fine.
Speaker 3: I think I would actually pick Running Man, though, just
Speaker 3: because I love that movie and I love the esthetic,
Speaker 3: and I think that it's so kind of like Bootleg
Speaker 3: that I would probably be okay. It's like just electrocute
Speaker 3: some guys, like go in a cool weird car through
Speaker 3: a tunnel where I jumpsuit, like make friends with Arnold Walschnigger.
Speaker 3: I'd probably be fine in In Running Man, I think.
Speaker 1: There's uh, there's a line in that movie and delivered
Speaker 1: by the great Arnold Schwarzenegger with a line reading that
Speaker 1: is just unreal, and I'm gonna quote it for you now.
Speaker 2: I hope you'll leave enough room from my fist because
Speaker 2: I have the rabbit and break us up. Fine.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's iconic. And he's like when he stabs the
Speaker 3: guy when he's citing the contract. I love that error
Speaker 3: of Arnie. Like Running Man, total recall.
Speaker 1: Heals your sob zirl now just cleans zeral zero.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's the good stuff. I think I could survive
Speaker 3: in eighties Game show era, where it's a little bit
Speaker 3: more jankie.
Speaker 2: What about you, I'm gonna go with Man.
Speaker 1: It's like a lot of killing, and I'm not sure
Speaker 1: how well I would do with killing, but I think Peter,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna steal one from Peta.
Speaker 2: He has shown us the way.
Speaker 1: I think if I went Hunger Games and I painted
Speaker 1: myself like a rock and just lay there honestly like
Speaker 1: he did very very well by doing it, and I
Speaker 1: think I would. I think I would do that as well.
Speaker 1: I would just paint myself like a rock and lay down.
Speaker 3: And when you said I just make some nice bread,
Speaker 3: doesn't delicious bread smell like bread?
Speaker 1: That's it for the endgame. Let us know whether you
Speaker 1: agree or can disagree. More sure your answers at hashtag
Speaker 1: xrvey endgame. Big thanks to Jackie Lopez, to Kannako Shiasaki uh,
Speaker 1: and of course Rosie Knight for joining us on another
Speaker 1: episode of X ray Vision. Rosie, where can people find
Speaker 1: your stuff?
Speaker 2: Plug it?
Speaker 5: Uh?
Speaker 3: Yeah, you can find me nerdist Ign a den of geek,
Speaker 3: all kinds of different cool places. When we write about
Speaker 3: comics what to watch, there's a bunch of different stuff
Speaker 3: out there. And the I'm on Instagram at Rosie Marx,
Speaker 3: where I sometimes review movies and always shout out this podcast.
Speaker 5: Oh thank you.
Speaker 1: Join us each week on Wednesday for your weekly dose
Speaker 1: of the deepest dives in Hana Stakes. Next week we'll
Speaker 1: be moving across the comic style to talk about the
Speaker 1: dc FanDome and all the announcements coming out of the
Speaker 1: Beagle dc FanDome. If you want to learn more about
Speaker 1: some of the shows, movies, comics, pop culture, the wee
Speaker 1: explore each episode, check out our listeners guide to all
Speaker 1: things x ray Vision in the show notes or.
Speaker 2: On your website.
Speaker 1: There is six rounds in the Squid Game, but only
Speaker 1: five stars, so if you like this show, give us
Speaker 1: the five star or else goodbye. Thanks very Vision. Is
Speaker 1: it for good media production. The show is produced by
Speaker 1: Chris Lord and Salt Rubin. It's EP by me, Jason
Speaker 1: Nceepsione and Sandy Gerard. Caroline Restin and Carolyon Gillespie are
Speaker 1: our consulting producers, and our editing and sound design is
Speaker 1: by Sarah Gibalaska, SGL and the folks. At chapter four,
Speaker 1: thank you Brian Vasquez for our theme music.
Speaker 2: Goodbye,