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Speaker 1: All of you listen to this podcast are living on

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Speaker 1: the edge with spoilers you just can't ignore. When we

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Speaker 1: first made pods for you, none of you trusted us.

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Speaker 1: But as you know, we made episodes and you listened

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Speaker 1: to them, so everyone here trusted us to tell you.

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Speaker 1: This episode contained spoilers for Squid Game, for the new

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Speaker 1: James Bond Double O seven picture, No Time to Die,

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Speaker 1: as well as a whole lot more, and so who knows,

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Speaker 1: honestly what else we might talk about, so be warned.

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Speaker 2: Hello.

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Speaker 1: I am Jason Stepsione and welcome to episode seven of

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Speaker 1: x ray Vision, the Crookeet Podcast, when we dive deep

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Speaker 1: into your favorite shows, movies, comics, and pop culture. On

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Speaker 1: today's Previously on we'll talk about the latest Bond film

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Speaker 1: No Time to Die. In the airlock, we will dive

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Speaker 1: deep into the Netflix sensation Squid Game, and in the endgame,

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Speaker 1: we will choose our own dead the game to be

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Speaker 1: a part of. You won't want to miss out. But first,

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Speaker 1: let's say Loadered, today's co host, pop culture clairvoyant, the

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Speaker 1: Great Rosie Night. Rosie, what was your favorite children's game?

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Speaker 3: I was like thinking a lot about this. I wasn't

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Speaker 3: really like an active kid. So I'm gonna say like

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Speaker 3: dot count because I used to love going to my

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Speaker 3: friend's hoss and playing dot coun but because of squid games,

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Speaker 3: I will reveal the English or at least London regional

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Speaker 3: title for red Light Green Light, which is what's the

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Speaker 3: time missed the Wolf?

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Speaker 2: So that's the.

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Speaker 3: Exactly, it's like the most English to ever. What was

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Speaker 3: your favorite chardhood game?

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Speaker 2: Kick the Can? Do you ever play Kick the Can? No?

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Speaker 2: So kick the Can?

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Speaker 1: Uh it figures in If you want to see a

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Speaker 1: good version of Kick the Can, it is in the

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Speaker 1: Twilight Zone movie from the eighties. Uh directed by John

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Speaker 1: landis famous for the deaths of Uh, an actor and

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Speaker 1: two child actors on set during a particularly harrowing helicopter scene,

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Speaker 1: but there is a brief snippet of Kick the Can

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Speaker 1: in there. It's kind of like hide and go seek

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Speaker 1: in that one person is it, or the person or

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Speaker 1: the jailer sometimes and there is a can or a

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Speaker 1: bottle we use, like a two liter bottle of like

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Speaker 1: Hawaiian punch. Everyone would go hide, right and then the

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Speaker 1: person who's it then has to go around and find

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Speaker 1: people and they have to stay in this like circle

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Speaker 1: around the can, and so they would say, like tap

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Speaker 1: tap tap, I see Jason hiding behind a tree, and

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Speaker 1: if he sees you, you then have to go stand

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Speaker 1: with him in this circle around the can. Now, if

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Speaker 1: someone manages to like run up before the person who

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Speaker 1: is it can say tap tap tap, I see so

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Speaker 1: and so I see Rosie running toward me, and they

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Speaker 1: kick the can before that full statement is uttered. Everyone

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Speaker 1: is free, and then the person has to then go

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Speaker 1: retrieve the can, return it to the place, and everybody

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Speaker 1: is run away and his hid.

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Speaker 2: It would go on for a long time.

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Speaker 1: But it was very suspenseful, and there was nothing like

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Speaker 1: kicking the can at the last possible moment for free.

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Speaker 3: It sounds actually like it would be a very good

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Speaker 3: squid game game because it's like suspiciously simple but actually

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Speaker 3: secretly really intricate.

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Speaker 2: Yes, like we were.

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Speaker 1: The fun move would be someone would say tap tap tap,

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Speaker 1: I see so and so and so and so hiding

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Speaker 1: over here, and then a third person would like walk

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Speaker 1: up with them very chill, like, oh you also got

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Speaker 1: me you forgot about it, and then they would get

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Speaker 1: to the can and kick it and.

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Speaker 2: Everybody would just go crazy and run.

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Speaker 1: Okay, let's get to the news and recapsin today's Previously on.

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Speaker 2: First up, DC's new Superman, John Kent.

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Speaker 1: This is the child of Clark Kent and Lois Lane

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Speaker 1: has been announced as as bisexual in a DC and

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Speaker 1: this made quite a splash. They announced this on National

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Speaker 1: Coming Out Day, which is great pr and while this

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Speaker 1: is certainly the buzziest of recent diverse representational announcements, this

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Speaker 1: has been going on for a while. Tim Drake, the

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Speaker 1: current Robin, has been out as bisexual since August. Tom Taylor,

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Speaker 1: Dark Knights of Steel, Harlequinn and of course you know

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Speaker 1: Young Avengers from eight or ten years ago has had

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Speaker 1: characters that were gay and out as gay, even like.

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Speaker 3: Going back to like some of our favorite comics like

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Speaker 3: the clamon X Men stuff. Even though there was allegedly

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Speaker 3: an edict at the time where they could have change

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Speaker 3: Jim Shooters Joe Victorious edict, but like you know, Mistek

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Speaker 3: and Destiny, like these are things that these stories have

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Speaker 3: been there for like a really long time.

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Speaker 2: They have been there, you know.

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Speaker 1: I think there were some notable stories from that era

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Speaker 1: and ways that creators got around the supposed edict, which

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Speaker 1: I believe is true. I believe that Jim Shooter had

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Speaker 1: is true, Jim. I believe that Jim Shooter had an edict.

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Speaker 1: He seemed like that kind of guy. There's I forget

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Speaker 1: what what issue of Captain America is, but there's like

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Speaker 1: an issue of Captain America where he uh, I might

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Speaker 1: get some of the details wrong, but that he meets

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Speaker 1: up again with like an old army buddy who has

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Speaker 1: like a best friend, that they live together, and like

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Speaker 1: something like they aren't allowed to like split their assets

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Speaker 1: in some particular way or one of them get sick,

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Speaker 1: and Captain America is like, well, it's wrong that like

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Speaker 1: these characters can't just hang out together. And but it's

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Speaker 1: quite clearly coded like as a as a gay relationship.

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Speaker 2: So this is great.

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Speaker 1: And for everybody who is mad and Slash upset about this,

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Speaker 1: you're late.

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Speaker 2: You clearly don't read comics because it has been going on.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and also it's really funny because like Conic Kent,

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Speaker 3: like everyone always thought he was gay, so I'm sure

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Speaker 3: that they're both going to be gay soon, Like Conic

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Speaker 3: Can's like the number one shipping like gay icons. So

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Speaker 3: I thought this was really cool. The art was really nice.

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Speaker 2: The art was beautifums. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and Tom Taylor, I think's doing something really cool.

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Speaker 3: I like seeing John as Superman. I think that's really

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Speaker 3: interesting choice and good for them.

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Speaker 1: The Tom Taylor statement quote. Superman's symbol has always stood

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Speaker 1: for hope, for truth, and for justice. Today the symbol

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Speaker 1: represents something more. Today, more people can see themselves in

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Speaker 1: the most powerful superhero in comics.

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Speaker 2: It's great.

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Speaker 1: Also big news for image heads for Brian K.

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Speaker 2: Vaughan, heads for fans of Fiuna Staples.

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Speaker 1: Saga, the acclaimed award winning series which I love very dearly,

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Speaker 1: will return end of January with issue fifty five. It's

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Speaker 1: been on hiatus for I want to say almost two

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Speaker 1: and a half three years now that it left us with.

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Speaker 1: This is a spoiler of podcast, but one of the

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Speaker 1: more brutal cliffhangers in comics that I can remember, and

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Speaker 1: it's coming back.

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Speaker 2: I can't wait. I love it. I love this comic.

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Speaker 1: If you love family, if you love falling in love,

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Speaker 1: if you want to see one of the most heartrending

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Speaker 1: depictions of a breakup of two people who go their

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Speaker 1: separate ways and maintain their love for each other, check

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Speaker 1: out Saga. It all Happens in space. There's a cat

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Speaker 1: that knows if you're lying.

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Speaker 2: It's great.

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Speaker 3: Well, it's like your one If somebody was like, what

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Speaker 3: saga about? What's like your one?

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Speaker 4: Nine?

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Speaker 2: Like pitch line man.

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Speaker 1: It's about love and space, I guess, you know, and

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Speaker 1: the ability of love to transcend really violent disagreements and differences.

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Speaker 1: It's about a planet that is at war with its moon,

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Speaker 1: you know, a highly technological people versus people entrenched in magic,

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Speaker 1: and they disagree on everything. But then two different people

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Speaker 1: from those two species fall.

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Speaker 2: In love and they have a child.

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Speaker 1: And though it doesn't all work out the way you

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Speaker 1: would want it to, it's just an incredibly engaging story.

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Speaker 2: It's how would you pitch it?

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Speaker 5: Yeah?

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Speaker 3: No, I think that's perfect. I think like it's one

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Speaker 3: of those comics where I used to work in a

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Speaker 3: comic shop in London and I had a lot of

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Speaker 3: friends who were that image era of like twenty twelve

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Speaker 3: to twenty fifteen, where it's just like the biggest you had,

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Speaker 3: you know, Wicked in the Divine Sara. Obviously Walking Dead

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Speaker 3: was still like its peak. This was one of those

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Speaker 3: books that you gave to people who don't read comic books.

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Speaker 3: So that's always my thing is like, this is that

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Speaker 3: first book one because Fiona's art is like so incredible

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Speaker 3: and I love BKV. But the art is what sells

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Speaker 3: someone who's never read a comic book. But it's political,

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Speaker 3: it's nuanced, it's sweet, it's loving, it's violent, it's scary,

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Speaker 3: it's inventive, sexy, it's like it's sexy. Yeah, and it's

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Speaker 3: it's honestly like one of the biggest kind of cultural

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Speaker 3: phenomenon comics of our time. Like it's the one comic

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Speaker 3: that I feel like everyone says you have to read.

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Speaker 3: It's one Eyes's, It's one Harvey's. I think Fiona might

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Speaker 3: have become the first woman to ever win an Eisner

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Speaker 3: on this book, as like as the first woman to

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Speaker 3: ever win Best Artists in Eisner for this book. And yeah,

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Speaker 3: it's it's kind of also the last ongoing book of

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Speaker 3: that era as well, because Walking Dead is done, WIKTIV

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Speaker 3: is done, a lot of the other stuff that was

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Speaker 3: really popular there was just kind of minis so. And also,

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Speaker 3: I think it's going to be basically double the same

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Speaker 3: amount of issues, right, so it's like it's going to

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Speaker 3: be fifty four more issues.

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Speaker 1: I'm so excited, and then you know Fiona. She's probably

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Speaker 1: my favorite artist working for various reasons, but mainly because

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Speaker 1: I don't think anybody does clothes and fashion as well

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Speaker 1: as she does. Like everything that the characters in Saga

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Speaker 1: Ware has, it feels lived in, but it's also super cool.

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Speaker 2: It's like, it's very rare.

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Speaker 1: That I open a comic and I'm like, I would

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Speaker 1: wear that jacket that this character is wearing in this

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Speaker 1: comic book.

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Speaker 3: Even the issue fifty five cover they released, I was like, Wow,

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Speaker 3: just pure style, just easy as fuck on the front

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Speaker 3: of that cover already, and I was like, Okay, you're

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Speaker 3: still going with it. Yeah, I'll be really interested to

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Speaker 3: see the release schedule because this is a book that

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Speaker 3: has it defies release schedules.

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Speaker 2: People are still so excited.

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Speaker 3: About it, even though it's been this like two year gap,

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Speaker 3: and they've had a lot of gaps before, so I'm

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Speaker 3: really excited. Image needs another big it needs a return

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Speaker 3: of like a big book.

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Speaker 1: I agree with you, these things are cyclical, but you

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Speaker 1: know this will be This is huge for that company.

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Speaker 1: Next our mini segment, which we are dubbing the Editor's Note,

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Speaker 1: X Ray Vision's producer and James Bond super nerd Chris

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Speaker 1: Lord will now join us to discuss the current state

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Speaker 1: of Bond as a celebration of the release of the

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Speaker 1: final Daniel Craig Bond film, No Time to Due, directed

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Speaker 1: by directorial super hunk lover of Log Cabins, Carrie.

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Speaker 2: Chris take it away.

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Speaker 4: Thanks for having me on.

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Speaker 3: No.

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Speaker 6: I was super excited to jump in here because, yeah,

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Speaker 6: I am like the biggest James Bond fan possible, and

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Speaker 6: I really love this movie actually, but it's very different

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Speaker 6: than anything else we've gotten out of Bond so far.

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Speaker 4: But like, I'm just kind of curious, what'd you guys

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Speaker 4: think about it?

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Speaker 5: That was great?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I quite enjoyed it. I think it's arguably the

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Speaker 1: best Daniel Craig Bond.

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Speaker 4: Okay, I think the.

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Speaker 3: Same, like I think, especially if you're not as into

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Speaker 3: the Lord Bond.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, that's fair.

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Speaker 3: For a two hour, forty five minute movie, this is

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Speaker 3: an accessible, interesting, funny It's it's so much funnier and

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Speaker 3: campier than the other ones, but it still has steaks

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Speaker 3: like Craig wise, and that's why I love about Bond. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: I just I thought it was I thought it was

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Speaker 3: really great.

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Speaker 2: I didn't.

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Speaker 3: I was like, this is gonna drag, but it did

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Speaker 3: not drag. I'm actually stoked to see it again.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, set the set pieces are wonderful, Craig is great,

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Speaker 1: and it's and it's one of you know, they've been

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Speaker 1: doing the kind of like Bond, have you lost a

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Speaker 1: step James Bond for for a little while with the

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Speaker 1: Daniel Craig run, but this is the most effective, uh

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Speaker 1: depiction of that, and it's super fun.

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Speaker 2: The character is great. I liked it.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, I'm glad they finally let him be funny because

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Speaker 6: Jenna Craig has actually really great comedic timing, but he's

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Speaker 6: just been so serious in all these movies.

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Speaker 1: So sell us on Bond. Sell for those who are

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Speaker 1: not Bond heads, sell us on give it. How how

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Speaker 1: would you pitch someone on Bond?

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Speaker 6: So I always think of Bond as like this really

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Speaker 6: unique touch point through culture, Like it's the only major

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Speaker 6: film series has been going on for sixty years that's

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Speaker 6: maintained that kind of status, so you can jump into

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Speaker 6: any movie and kind of get a sense of what

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Speaker 6: the world was like at the time the movie came out.

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Speaker 6: But I also think he's this ongoing commentary on modern masculinity.

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Speaker 4: In a lot of ways.

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Speaker 6: I mean, I think there's all this conversation now like oh,

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Speaker 6: should Bond be a woman, And I actually think that's

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Speaker 6: kind of reductives. I think you can say much more

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Speaker 6: interesting things about how a male character can and should

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Speaker 6: behave now than by changing up the gender. And so

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Speaker 6: I always say that, like, if you've never seen Bond,

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Speaker 6: start with Casino Royale because it's like, arguably be the

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Speaker 6: best film that they've made. It's the most accessible. Then

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Speaker 6: go watch Goldfinger, which it's like deeply, deeply problematic, but

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Speaker 6: it's like the.

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Speaker 4: Most Bond.

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Speaker 3: But it's so campy and it's.

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Speaker 6: So Campyre's there's so many problems I'm not gonna start

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Speaker 6: to get into here. If you watch the movie, you

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Speaker 6: know exactly what I'm talking about. But it's like the

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Speaker 6: most Bond Bond movie ever made. It's like where they

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Speaker 6: set the formula. And then after that, I say, go

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Speaker 6: watch like Die Another Day or Diamonds Are Forever.

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Speaker 4: Just see how like.

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Speaker 6: Fucking ridiculously stupid some of them can be. You'll get

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Speaker 6: a whole swath of it. But I think for like

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Speaker 6: No Time to Die, you do kind of have to

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Speaker 6: have seen the entire Craig run, which is different. Like

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Speaker 6: that's the thing that has kind of defined the Dan

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Speaker 6: of Craig era is that it's been a huge departure

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Speaker 6: from the traditional formula up to this point, Like every

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Speaker 6: other Bond film was always like a one and done thing,

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Speaker 6: like you kind of watch it and it didn't matter

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Speaker 6: what came before, what came after, And this is the

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Speaker 6: first time they're like, oh no, you have to know

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Speaker 6: what's going on in continuity is really really important to

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Speaker 6: this era, which is.

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Speaker 4: Very different.

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Speaker 6: I think it's kind of put them in a unique

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Speaker 6: position going forward, like I don't really know what they

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Speaker 6: do now. I mean to get into like full on,

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Speaker 6: full on spoilers here for No Time to Die if

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Speaker 6: you haven't seen it. Pause, but like they kill Bond

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Speaker 6: and that's never been done before.

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Speaker 2: Dead.

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Speaker 4: He's like one hundred percent dead.

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Speaker 6: And you know, it's interesting because this movie is almost

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Speaker 6: like kind of a pseudo remake in some ways of

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Speaker 6: on her majesty of service, Like people were gonna be

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Speaker 6: talking about that a lot, so I want to address that.

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Speaker 6: Like not only does Bond say the phrase we have

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Speaker 6: all the time the world, which is like the catch

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Speaker 6: phrase from that film and also the title of the

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Speaker 6: Louis Armstrong song. But like in that movie, he has

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Speaker 6: a chance at happiness to like go and get married

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Speaker 6: and be with the love of his life, and then

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Speaker 6: that's cut short by an assassination attempt from Blofeld, and

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Speaker 6: the exact same thing happens here, but in the prologue

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Speaker 6: of the film, but instead of anyone dying, like he

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Speaker 6: basically decides he can never trust mallance one again and

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Speaker 6: so like, Okay, if you go, I'm never gonna talk

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Speaker 6: to you again, which, of course, of course they come

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Speaker 6: back together, but like, yeah, he he's now dead, and

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Speaker 6: so it's like, what do you.

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Speaker 2: Do they do?

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Speaker 5: What do they do?

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Speaker 1: Like how do they like assuming that they don't have

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Speaker 1: a moment in which like em is in their.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, like in their apartment.

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Speaker 1: They're in their apartment, and then all of a sudden

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Speaker 1: it's like, oh my god, boond, that's right.

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Speaker 2: You thought I was deceased but I'm live or something

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Speaker 2: like yeah.

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Speaker 6: I mean it's weird because this movie almost kind of

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Speaker 6: sets up some potential spin offs, like so we get

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Speaker 6: Lashawna lynch'es know me, who's the new double o? Seven,

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Speaker 6: who I really hoping she was gonna be a scene stealer,

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Speaker 6: Like I kind of want to come out of this

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Speaker 6: movie being like, Hey, if they make a movie just

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Speaker 6: around her, I would love to watch it.

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Speaker 4: I thought she was a little bit underutilized.

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Speaker 1: There was there was a lot of we're gonna play

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Speaker 1: with the idea that someone or anyone would steal anything

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Speaker 1: from James Bond, his title, the scenes. You know, his

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Speaker 1: status is like the protagonist, and.

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Speaker 2: It never happens for sure.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I thought Lashaana was great, but she was also

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Speaker 3: playing like a more classic contemporary spy against like a

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Speaker 3: character whose entire point is to contradict that and be

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Speaker 3: more interesting or different. But there was like, I think

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Speaker 3: you're right about the spinoffs, because I mean, the side

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Speaker 3: characters are always great in these Craig movies. They introduced

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Speaker 3: that Ana Dahma's Craig scene is like ten out of ten,

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Speaker 3: one of the best scenes from any.

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Speaker 4: James She's the real scene stealer.

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Speaker 6: Ana d Armes's Paloma, like she's so weird and funny

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Speaker 6: and like she seems like she doesn't know what she's doing,

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Speaker 6: and then she's like crazy confident, but also like a

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Speaker 6: hard drinker, just like Bond.

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Speaker 4: It's so weird and fun.

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Speaker 3: And they don't sleep together, like they just have a

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Speaker 3: great just have a cool super like mass killing and

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Speaker 3: then they're like, hey, you agree, let's.

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Speaker 6: Like grab a drink and shoot some people against So yeah,

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Speaker 6: it'll be fun to be really great.

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Speaker 3: Yeah that I really You know, when studios like release

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Speaker 3: scenes from movies to sell the movie, I'm like, they

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Speaker 3: need to just put that on YouTube because people would

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Speaker 3: be using their mind. Like it's such a it's just

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Speaker 3: such a solid space. But so something I wonder is,

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Speaker 3: like you talked the old James Bond movies before, Craig,

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Speaker 3: It's like, it doesn't matter what happens in the first one,

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Speaker 3: just continue on. It doesn't matter it's a different act.

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Speaker 3: Blah blah blah. So do you think they're essentially going

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Speaker 3: to use that formula to just keep doing James Bond

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Speaker 3: but with a different person or do you think because

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Speaker 3: they did these movies that are like such a capsule

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Speaker 3: with like an ongoing storyline, that they've kind of trapped

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Speaker 3: themselves into a corner.

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Speaker 6: I think they have kind of backed themselves into a corner,

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Speaker 6: like you can't just kind of pick up and run

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Speaker 6: with it now because they've made condity such a big

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Speaker 6: deal and that made Craig such a big deal. I mean,

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Speaker 6: I understand why they killed him because I think one

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Speaker 6: they wanted to give him a proper and off, and

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Speaker 6: too they had to find a reason to not have

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Speaker 6: him come back because he's been the most popular Bond

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Speaker 6: since Connery, like hands down, everyone loves him so much.

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Speaker 6: But I think I think it's hard to do a

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Speaker 6: spinoff because you could have a new character b double

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Speaker 6: O seven the way they did here, but like the

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Speaker 6: end credits even say James Bond will return, right, So

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Speaker 6: James Bond will come back. So I don't think they

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Speaker 6: can do that. I think you have to try to

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Speaker 6: just keep going. And maybe because Craig has been such

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Speaker 6: a departure that whole era, you could go back and

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Speaker 6: just have it be all right, we bring in someone new,

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Speaker 6: we go back to the traditional like you know, give

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Speaker 6: him a doste, set him on a mission, keep going.

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Speaker 6: And I think they have to pull back on making

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Speaker 6: continuity is such a big deal and just kind of

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Speaker 6: go back that thing, like and we just keep going on.

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Speaker 4: It's a new actor.

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Speaker 6: Because there's been this idea that Bond's a code name,

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Speaker 6: and it's actually been proven true number of times. Yeah,

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Speaker 6: Like even Roger Moore films make reference to Sean Connor

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Speaker 6: of films and so on, so that's not the thing.

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Speaker 6: I don't want them to do that either. Like, I'm

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Speaker 6: kind of sad because I feel like we're gonna have

401
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Speaker 6: to now say goodbye to like finds as M and

402
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Speaker 6: Naomi Harris's Moneypenny and Ben Wishaw's Q and I love

403
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Speaker 6: all of them, but I think you can't just bring

404
00:19:06,440 --> 00:19:07,920
Speaker 6: them back again and have it still makes sense.

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Speaker 1: Unfortunately, is there a next Bond? So much of the

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Speaker 1: talk about Bond is who's next? I don't want to

407
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Speaker 1: get into like speculator who could be the next Bond?

408
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Speaker 1: But does the next Bond have to be ripped? Now

409
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Speaker 1: that Daniel Craig is established that Bond is ripped, I

410
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Speaker 1: mean Bond like James Bond coming out of the water.

411
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Speaker 1: It was a landmark moment in the history of Bond.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, and the water glistening running off.

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Speaker 3: Of his adults and like a nice inversion of like

414
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Speaker 3: you know, yes, it's like the gaze and let's look

415
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Speaker 3: at Bond.

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00:19:47,520 --> 00:19:49,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, the gaze is now on Bond.

417
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Speaker 6: I mean just very personally considering that that moment of

418
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Speaker 6: considerail was a big part of my like gay awakening.

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Speaker 4: Like can we please keep having Bond the super ripped?

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Speaker 6: Just on a personal level, I want that, let's let's

421
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Speaker 6: all go Bond a little bit more here, But yeah,

422
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Speaker 6: I think he's got to be ripped still.

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Speaker 3: I think in that mcu age, I think it's there's

424
00:20:06,400 --> 00:20:09,160
Speaker 3: no question, Like I think I would like to see

425
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Speaker 3: like dad board Bond or whatever they straight people call bears, Like,

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Speaker 3: you know, I would like to see that. But I

427
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Speaker 3: think realistically, you're going to have someone on an mc

428
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Speaker 3: usque diet and they'll probably cast someone you're not expecting

429
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Speaker 3: to be ripped, and then when they have that moment,

430
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Speaker 3: everyone's going to.

431
00:20:24,240 --> 00:20:27,000
Speaker 2: Be like whoa, oh my god.

432
00:20:28,080 --> 00:20:30,080
Speaker 3: Training and not drinking water for.

433
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Speaker 2: Like two years exactly.

434
00:20:33,840 --> 00:20:35,560
Speaker 4: Yeah, no, he he's going to be ripped.

435
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Speaker 6: I want to see like an actual of color take

436
00:20:38,640 --> 00:20:40,000
Speaker 6: over the role. Like I think that's where you can

437
00:20:40,040 --> 00:20:41,400
Speaker 6: go now, is like, oh, you can make the character

438
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Speaker 6: more diverse. And then again me like wanting everything to

439
00:20:43,840 --> 00:20:46,440
Speaker 6: be more queer. I think a modern Bond would fuck everybody,

440
00:20:46,520 --> 00:20:50,280
Speaker 6: so bisexual, making pants sexual, Like, just put that in

441
00:20:50,320 --> 00:20:51,400
Speaker 6: there and just let it be a thing.

442
00:20:51,560 --> 00:20:54,520
Speaker 3: Also, didn't Daniel Craig do some incredible interview recently while

443
00:20:54,560 --> 00:20:56,680
Speaker 3: he was talking about how he always kisses his leading men,

444
00:20:56,920 --> 00:20:59,520
Speaker 3: so he was like kissing Romy Mallick or something when the.

445
00:20:59,480 --> 00:21:00,840
Speaker 4: Movie somehow miss this.

446
00:21:01,119 --> 00:21:03,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm pretty sure that was a real thing that

447
00:21:03,640 --> 00:21:05,520
Speaker 3: he said. So I'm like, just make that canon. He's

448
00:21:05,520 --> 00:21:06,560
Speaker 3: already too in the work.

449
00:21:06,720 --> 00:21:06,800
Speaker 5: Like.

450
00:21:07,080 --> 00:21:09,120
Speaker 3: Also, yeah, like you said, James Bond, he would literally

451
00:21:09,200 --> 00:21:09,520
Speaker 3: he would.

452
00:21:09,560 --> 00:21:10,960
Speaker 2: We would sleep with every question.

453
00:21:11,080 --> 00:21:14,879
Speaker 1: The calling back to our conversation in previously on about

454
00:21:15,520 --> 00:21:18,119
Speaker 1: about John Kent coming out as bisexual along with Tim Drakes,

455
00:21:18,359 --> 00:21:21,439
Speaker 1: et cetera, that I think the thing that the Bond

456
00:21:21,680 --> 00:21:24,760
Speaker 1: producers will realize is you just have so much more

457
00:21:24,840 --> 00:21:28,760
Speaker 1: story when your main character can have a romantic relationship

458
00:21:28,800 --> 00:21:30,760
Speaker 1: with every other character in the story.

459
00:21:31,280 --> 00:21:31,480
Speaker 4: Yeah.

460
00:21:31,520 --> 00:21:34,360
Speaker 2: Think about it. Yeah, think about it, James Bond producers.

461
00:21:34,600 --> 00:21:35,040
Speaker 5: Mm hmm.

462
00:21:35,240 --> 00:21:37,520
Speaker 3: And also, like you said, like it not only does that,

463
00:21:37,560 --> 00:21:40,040
Speaker 3: but also it opens up a different aspect of like

464
00:21:40,080 --> 00:21:43,639
Speaker 3: a male masculinity exploration, whether they're queer, whether they are

465
00:21:43,640 --> 00:21:45,520
Speaker 3: a person of color, whether they're both. That adds a

466
00:21:45,560 --> 00:21:48,240
Speaker 3: different layer to the thing they've already been doing for sixty.

467
00:21:48,080 --> 00:21:50,160
Speaker 6: Yes, yeah, exactly. You don't have to have a gay

468
00:21:50,240 --> 00:21:52,520
Speaker 6: character super feminine. It can be like the most masculine

469
00:21:52,560 --> 00:21:54,320
Speaker 6: character in the world. And also, yeah, he happens to

470
00:21:54,359 --> 00:21:54,880
Speaker 6: sleep with men.

471
00:21:54,960 --> 00:21:58,680
Speaker 1: It's fine, Chris, thank you for joining us on this

472
00:21:59,080 --> 00:22:02,480
Speaker 1: u that you have been dying to have about the

473
00:22:02,560 --> 00:22:03,880
Speaker 1: latest James Bond film.

474
00:22:03,800 --> 00:22:05,400
Speaker 2: No Time to Die.

475
00:22:08,840 --> 00:22:12,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, we come back, Rosie and I step out of

476
00:22:12,200 --> 00:22:29,679
Speaker 1: the airlock. We're stepping out of the airlock and into

477
00:22:30,400 --> 00:22:33,760
Speaker 1: the no holds barred high stakes survival series Squid Game,

478
00:22:33,800 --> 00:22:37,800
Speaker 1: currently streaming on Netflix. This is, according to Netflix, now Rosie,

479
00:22:37,840 --> 00:22:41,520
Speaker 1: their biggest international hit. This can't be stressed enough. Do

480
00:22:41,600 --> 00:22:43,800
Speaker 1: I believe that this is a huge international hit.

481
00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:44,280
Speaker 4: I do.

482
00:22:44,720 --> 00:22:48,960
Speaker 1: I believe because listen, I started watching it because everybody

483
00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:51,560
Speaker 1: on my timeline was like schood Game, Scared Games. So

484
00:22:51,600 --> 00:22:53,359
Speaker 1: I believe that it is a huge international But it

485
00:22:53,400 --> 00:22:56,159
Speaker 1: can't be said enough when Netflix says this is our

486
00:22:56,200 --> 00:22:58,320
Speaker 1: biggest hit of all time, this is a huge global hit,

487
00:22:58,359 --> 00:23:00,000
Speaker 1: This is a MASSI hit. Blah blah blah blah blah.

488
00:23:00,520 --> 00:23:03,080
Speaker 1: We are taking their word for it because Netflix, like

489
00:23:03,119 --> 00:23:06,320
Speaker 1: all other streamers, does not tell anybody about what their

490
00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:08,520
Speaker 1: viewership numbers are, what their stats are.

491
00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:09,960
Speaker 2: We don't know anything about it.

492
00:23:10,080 --> 00:23:13,320
Speaker 3: Yes, let's be let's be equal hair no streamers, no

493
00:23:13,359 --> 00:23:17,720
Speaker 3: streamers and other than their own. There's no Nielsen kind

494
00:23:17,720 --> 00:23:20,080
Speaker 3: of there's there's equivalents that are popping up. But this

495
00:23:20,280 --> 00:23:23,080
Speaker 3: is just Apple or Netflix or Disney Plus saying hey,

496
00:23:23,160 --> 00:23:25,720
Speaker 3: eighty five million people want and you just have to say,

497
00:23:25,760 --> 00:23:29,120
Speaker 3: I believe you, like you said, I actually squid Game.

498
00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:31,520
Speaker 3: I believe it, like I don't know what the numbers are.

499
00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:33,600
Speaker 3: But do I believe or want to believe that we

500
00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:36,960
Speaker 3: live in a world where more people watch this than Bridgeton. Yes,

501
00:23:37,040 --> 00:23:39,439
Speaker 3: and I might Bridgidson yet no beef, But if that

502
00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:42,159
Speaker 3: excites me that this is like could be the biggest

503
00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:43,200
Speaker 3: Netflix show of all time.

504
00:23:43,640 --> 00:23:49,440
Speaker 1: So quick recap on squid Game. Song Gi Hun, otherwise

505
00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:55,760
Speaker 1: known as Player four fifty six UH, is a inveterate gambler.

506
00:23:56,359 --> 00:24:01,280
Speaker 1: He is in debt. The debts are causing friction with

507
00:24:01,359 --> 00:24:06,560
Speaker 1: his family, with his ex wife his ability to take

508
00:24:06,600 --> 00:24:11,439
Speaker 1: care of their daughter, and so he is approached by

509
00:24:11,560 --> 00:24:16,040
Speaker 1: a shadowy group to join a mysterious game that could

510
00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:20,159
Speaker 1: possibly award him as much as forty five and a

511
00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:23,639
Speaker 1: half billion Korean wand, which is about thirty eight million dollars,

512
00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:29,439
Speaker 1: certainly a decent payday. And the losers are eliminated in

513
00:24:29,560 --> 00:24:34,320
Speaker 1: the most literal way. They are killed off, usually by

514
00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:38,360
Speaker 1: a gunshot to the head, occasionally by other means, falling.

515
00:24:38,080 --> 00:24:39,359
Speaker 2: From great heights, etc.

516
00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:44,080
Speaker 1: The games are run by a coterie of massed individuals

517
00:24:44,080 --> 00:24:49,080
Speaker 1: in red jumpsuits, and they are armed to the teeth.

518
00:24:49,960 --> 00:24:51,320
Speaker 2: They, meanwhile, are.

519
00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:55,679
Speaker 1: Led by the mysterious frontman, who controls the game with

520
00:24:55,920 --> 00:25:00,440
Speaker 1: an authoritarian fist, and who in a and this is

521
00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:04,439
Speaker 1: a huge spoiler, Uh yeah, big, big, big spoiler, turns

522
00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:09,520
Speaker 1: out to be the long lost brother of the detective

523
00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:10,680
Speaker 1: character in the game.

524
00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:12,560
Speaker 2: Okay, so there have.

525
00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:18,959
Speaker 1: Been shows and movies and stories that have criticized power

526
00:25:19,160 --> 00:25:23,320
Speaker 1: and criticized capitalism and then explore the idea of selfishness

527
00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:27,199
Speaker 1: as a generator of drama and suspense before but what

528
00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:31,200
Speaker 1: do you think what's the appeal of this of squid game?

529
00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:35,000
Speaker 1: Which it's not often that a show that no one

530
00:25:35,119 --> 00:25:38,280
Speaker 1: expects comes up and captures the conversation, I guess, like

531
00:25:38,359 --> 00:25:43,360
Speaker 1: Stranger Things and other Netflix property, which was also definitely

532
00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:45,640
Speaker 1: more marks, definitely more marketed, right, just.

533
00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:48,400
Speaker 3: A little bit more. But I think the first reason,

534
00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:50,639
Speaker 3: which does not touch on anything that we say, but

535
00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:55,159
Speaker 3: esthetically and stylistically, this show is so uniquely and I

536
00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:59,600
Speaker 3: do really think the pink jumpsuits, the Esher style, neon staircases,

537
00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:03,080
Speaker 3: the stylized kid game. I think that's what got people

538
00:26:03,160 --> 00:26:06,919
Speaker 3: to maybe click on it, you know. But the nature

539
00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:11,000
Speaker 3: of the capitalists critique and the idea of what we'll

540
00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:14,360
Speaker 3: do to survive, I just think this is unbelievably timely

541
00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:17,359
Speaker 3: and it works on. As I was watching it, I

542
00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:20,360
Speaker 3: was just thinking, like multiple different times throughout this show,

543
00:26:20,359 --> 00:26:23,359
Speaker 3: You're like, oh, this could be about veterans who've been

544
00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:25,560
Speaker 3: in the military and then come out and they're homeless,

545
00:26:25,640 --> 00:26:28,960
Speaker 3: or this could be about you know, you've got to

546
00:26:29,040 --> 00:26:31,359
Speaker 3: it's always about following the rules in squid Game. If

547
00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:33,560
Speaker 3: you don't, if you follow the rules, everyone's equal, and

548
00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:35,640
Speaker 3: if you follow the rules, then you can have this great,

549
00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:39,000
Speaker 3: big payout, which is just society and is also bullshit.

550
00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:41,600
Speaker 3: You know. Also, I think something that's really interesting, and

551
00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:43,080
Speaker 3: I know me and you were talking about this even

552
00:26:43,119 --> 00:26:45,800
Speaker 3: like last week before we were recording, but we are

553
00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:48,159
Speaker 3: in a space now it's twenty twenty one, twenty one

554
00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:51,320
Speaker 3: years ago. Battlew the movie came out a year before.

555
00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:56,800
Speaker 1: Incredibly influential movie, unbelievable, It's fingerprints are all over squid

556
00:26:56,840 --> 00:26:57,920
Speaker 1: game if you haven't seen it.

557
00:26:58,760 --> 00:27:04,560
Speaker 3: Unbelievable director by Kinji Fukusaku. Just absolutely cultural. Just zeitdeiscet movie.

558
00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:07,520
Speaker 3: But we are now living in the era where that

559
00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:12,119
Speaker 3: has existed and been influencing pop culture for twenty one years.

560
00:27:12,280 --> 00:27:16,359
Speaker 1: Hunger Games influential to the point where Susanne Collins, editor

561
00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:21,440
Speaker 1: told her there's this book and movie called Battle Royale.

562
00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:25,240
Speaker 1: Don't read it or watch it as you were in

563
00:27:25,280 --> 00:27:28,480
Speaker 1: the middle, because editors had become aware of it and

564
00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:31,320
Speaker 1: had become aware of how close it was to they

565
00:27:31,359 --> 00:27:33,800
Speaker 1: were like, don't read it, don't watch it, don't do it.

566
00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:36,639
Speaker 3: And also, like, the most popular video game in the

567
00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:39,960
Speaker 3: world right now is Fortnite, which was inspired again by Battlerial.

568
00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:43,119
Speaker 3: So we're in a space where this story has become

569
00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:45,960
Speaker 3: a trope. The idea of like the survivalist, that you

570
00:27:46,119 --> 00:27:48,720
Speaker 3: kill everyone else to survive and it's just you has

571
00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:53,000
Speaker 3: become like an ultimate pop culture trope. So there's something

572
00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:55,600
Speaker 3: about that. And then you know, living through a pandemic

573
00:27:55,880 --> 00:28:00,000
Speaker 3: and the massive wealth divide and stories that are already

574
00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:04,080
Speaker 3: inspiring these kind of conversations like Powersite, and I feel

575
00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:08,840
Speaker 3: like it just ended up being perfectly timed to kind

576
00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:13,720
Speaker 3: of engage and get everyone in the like they were saying,

577
00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:16,440
Speaker 3: this was the top show in you know, thirty countries

578
00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:19,320
Speaker 3: or something like. And also it helps that it's incredibly

579
00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:21,919
Speaker 3: well made, them well written, the production dine is amazing,

580
00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:25,720
Speaker 3: the story arcs are incredible, And I think the biggest

581
00:28:25,720 --> 00:28:28,080
Speaker 3: thing which I know we're gonna touch on, that separates

582
00:28:28,080 --> 00:28:30,639
Speaker 3: this from every other one and why I think people

583
00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:33,480
Speaker 3: are so into it is episode two, the option of

584
00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:36,720
Speaker 3: leaving and coming back that I think is the big cook.

585
00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:41,760
Speaker 1: That is a very, very notable difference in these kind

586
00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:45,480
Speaker 1: of stories you mentioned Battle Royale. I think if we're

587
00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:49,520
Speaker 1: gonna say that these kind of tales where there's a

588
00:28:49,920 --> 00:28:54,320
Speaker 1: kind of like non zero structure in which in order

589
00:28:54,320 --> 00:28:57,960
Speaker 1: for a character to advance, another character must definitely lose,

590
00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:00,200
Speaker 1: and that usually means their life, and that's create it's

591
00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:04,960
Speaker 1: this kind of like ruthless emotional cadence. You're exactly right.

592
00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:08,800
Speaker 1: The thing that makes this different than the Hunger games,

593
00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:14,640
Speaker 1: Battle Royale, Survivor, you know, all these other shows. Is

594
00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:19,000
Speaker 1: that these characters given the option to opt out of

595
00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:22,680
Speaker 1: it and to leave, and by leaving, they then make

596
00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:27,320
Speaker 1: the decision that actually the larger system, the larger economic

597
00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:30,640
Speaker 1: system that we find ourselves in separate and aside from

598
00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:34,479
Speaker 1: the metaphor of the squid game, is so punishing that

599
00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:38,880
Speaker 1: it's actually the cost benefit analysis leads us to say

600
00:29:38,920 --> 00:29:43,680
Speaker 1: we must return to the game that underlines the capitalist

601
00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:46,640
Speaker 1: critique in a lot stronger of a way than a

602
00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:48,280
Speaker 1: lot of these other games.

603
00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:51,920
Speaker 2: I agree with you, it is really quite a different thing.

604
00:29:52,240 --> 00:29:54,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, And even like the name of that episode is

605
00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:56,800
Speaker 3: hell Yeah. So it's like you've been in the game,

606
00:29:56,840 --> 00:29:59,080
Speaker 3: You've seen two hundred people die in this really brew

607
00:29:59,160 --> 00:30:02,320
Speaker 3: away is just going back onto the street, you know,

608
00:30:02,360 --> 00:30:05,320
Speaker 3: and we learn later on that there's more machinations there,

609
00:30:05,360 --> 00:30:08,400
Speaker 3: the people they meet, the conversations they have. But I

610
00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:11,560
Speaker 3: think that choice really gives you that even the biggest

611
00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:14,080
Speaker 3: hook of these is what would I do? Would I

612
00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:15,720
Speaker 3: be able to do it? Could I do it? Could

613
00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:17,719
Speaker 3: I find a way to not do it? Would I

614
00:30:17,880 --> 00:30:20,120
Speaker 3: thrive in that situation? It's the same as the zombie

615
00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:22,880
Speaker 3: Apocalypse everyone has a zombie apocalypse plan how would you survive?

616
00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:26,200
Speaker 3: So putting them back in the outside world and having

617
00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:29,560
Speaker 3: them choose to go back in that adds a whole

618
00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:30,440
Speaker 3: different layer to that.

619
00:30:30,560 --> 00:30:31,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree with you.

620
00:30:31,480 --> 00:30:33,560
Speaker 1: I mean, like one of the one of the traits

621
00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:37,640
Speaker 1: that all these kind of stories and games share is

622
00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:42,760
Speaker 1: the action takes place on a removed and isolated battle

623
00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:46,880
Speaker 1: arena or a desert island, or you know, in the

624
00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:49,719
Speaker 1: case of like the Saw movies, like in some hidden

625
00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:53,360
Speaker 1: you know playpen for a serial killer that acts as

626
00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:59,720
Speaker 1: like a limited resource metaphor for whatever the larger idea is.

627
00:31:00,440 --> 00:31:05,040
Speaker 1: And also that the characters are faced with, you know,

628
00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:09,240
Speaker 1: impossible choices that ask them to prioritize their own self

629
00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:13,640
Speaker 1: interest above normal things. So like in squid game, you know,

630
00:31:13,760 --> 00:31:16,360
Speaker 1: four or five six is asked to prioritize self interest

631
00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:20,800
Speaker 1: above like his own warm feelings for other characters. He's

632
00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:25,760
Speaker 1: asked to, you know, walk away from an older character

633
00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:29,680
Speaker 1: who basically he is the only one who sees value

634
00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:32,400
Speaker 1: in that character in the context of a game. A

635
00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:35,880
Speaker 1: lot of times in stories like this, a character is

636
00:31:36,040 --> 00:31:39,160
Speaker 1: asked to prioritize their own self interest above, like even

637
00:31:39,280 --> 00:31:41,800
Speaker 1: parts of themselves, you know, and saw like notably, carry

638
00:31:41,800 --> 00:31:44,080
Speaker 1: Always's character cuts off their own leg in order to

639
00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:46,000
Speaker 1: move forward in the game. And you see a lot

640
00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:48,320
Speaker 1: of you know, Game of Thrones has like these same

641
00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:51,400
Speaker 1: kind of things where people become maimed or lose an

642
00:31:51,520 --> 00:31:53,080
Speaker 1: arm in order for them.

643
00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:53,960
Speaker 2: To continue on.

644
00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:58,320
Speaker 1: And that kind of tenor is part and parcel to

645
00:31:58,440 --> 00:32:01,840
Speaker 1: this style. And it's it's hard to escape from the

646
00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:07,760
Speaker 1: fact that like this style of storytelling, it's always been around, right, Yeah,

647
00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:10,480
Speaker 1: Lord of the Florida, The Fly, The Running Man, The

648
00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:15,400
Speaker 1: Most Dangerous Game came out in the twenties, but particular

649
00:32:15,560 --> 00:32:18,320
Speaker 1: since Battle Royale and I think The Late Night Is

650
00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:22,200
Speaker 1: it's just become more and more popular, whether it's survivor right,

651
00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:26,840
Speaker 1: remove characters, remove contestants to a desert island where they

652
00:32:26,840 --> 00:32:30,360
Speaker 1: then must compete against each other, Big Brother Locke contestants

653
00:32:30,360 --> 00:32:33,960
Speaker 1: in this kind of like almost laboratory recreation of a

654
00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:38,920
Speaker 1: house in which they must compete against each other. The Purge, Castaway,

655
00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:42,080
Speaker 1: The Walking Dead, The Road, Cormack McCarthy's Road.

656
00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:43,640
Speaker 2: There's all these versions of this.

657
00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:46,040
Speaker 1: And then and you mentioned Fortnite, Call of Duty, war

658
00:32:46,160 --> 00:32:50,880
Speaker 1: Zone Apex legends. This for some reason this setup is

659
00:32:51,040 --> 00:32:52,680
Speaker 1: resonating with people right now.

660
00:32:52,920 --> 00:32:55,280
Speaker 3: I actually think as well, like you've touched on something

661
00:32:55,400 --> 00:32:59,040
Speaker 3: really interesting that I wouldn't have necessarily made the connection between.

662
00:32:59,080 --> 00:33:01,400
Speaker 3: But I think if we talk about why squid Game

663
00:33:01,480 --> 00:33:04,640
Speaker 3: is so popular now, you cannot in any way discount

664
00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:09,959
Speaker 3: reality TV. Somebody who watches The Bachelorette or survivor really passionately,

665
00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:12,360
Speaker 3: they might not have seen bat real, but they are

666
00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:15,280
Speaker 3: essentially watching the same storyline, just with it's not death,

667
00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:18,360
Speaker 3: it's you're being eliminated in a romantic set. Honestly, I

668
00:33:18,360 --> 00:33:21,880
Speaker 3: would probably rather do batal than that show is terrifying

669
00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:25,480
Speaker 3: to me. It's so terrifying. But but like I think

670
00:33:25,480 --> 00:33:28,239
Speaker 3: that's really interesting because what we're saying is this is

671
00:33:28,440 --> 00:33:32,120
Speaker 3: no matter what kind of medium or genre. There's novels

672
00:33:32,160 --> 00:33:34,480
Speaker 3: about it, there's reality TV about it, there's horror movies

673
00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:36,760
Speaker 3: about it, there's games that kids play about it. This

674
00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:40,600
Speaker 3: is a story that is resonating with people, and somehow

675
00:33:40,960 --> 00:33:43,960
Speaker 3: squid Game has kind of captured that in a way

676
00:33:44,680 --> 00:33:48,800
Speaker 3: that is making people really excited. And also, like I

677
00:33:48,920 --> 00:33:51,880
Speaker 3: do think it's cool to see people having conversations about

678
00:33:51,920 --> 00:33:54,080
Speaker 3: their readings of it. Yeah, and I think so too

679
00:33:54,320 --> 00:33:56,440
Speaker 3: works and it's like people will be like, oh, it's

680
00:33:56,440 --> 00:33:58,880
Speaker 3: a meme, but I'm like, that is how information spreads,

681
00:33:58,880 --> 00:34:01,080
Speaker 3: you know. I saw so many good memes about like.

682
00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:02,600
Speaker 5: It.

683
00:34:02,640 --> 00:34:05,640
Speaker 3: There's like one really popular one that's basically like, oh,

684
00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:08,040
Speaker 3: you know squid game. Imagine a world where people have

685
00:34:08,040 --> 00:34:11,920
Speaker 3: to sign away their lives and like rights and bodily

686
00:34:11,960 --> 00:34:14,120
Speaker 3: autonomy so that they can survive. And then it's like

687
00:34:14,160 --> 00:34:16,680
Speaker 3: the US military like hiding, you know, like I think

688
00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:20,600
Speaker 3: it's people are seeing something in this story specifically that

689
00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:24,200
Speaker 3: speaks to them in a way where it's not analogous.

690
00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:26,759
Speaker 3: It's not like, oh, maybe it means this. It's not

691
00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:30,279
Speaker 3: your literary student reading like, you know, the Scarlet letter

692
00:34:30,320 --> 00:34:32,239
Speaker 3: and someone saying maybe he meant this. People are saying

693
00:34:32,280 --> 00:34:34,640
Speaker 3: this is what this means. And I can see that

694
00:34:34,719 --> 00:34:35,600
Speaker 3: this is what it means. Yeah.

695
00:34:35,600 --> 00:34:38,000
Speaker 2: It's like when I play Fortnite and Call of Duty.

696
00:34:38,040 --> 00:34:41,360
Speaker 1: Warzone two of the most popular games certainly for streaming

697
00:34:41,400 --> 00:34:44,160
Speaker 1: and for people to play, and I think war Zone

698
00:34:45,280 --> 00:34:50,520
Speaker 1: launched in March of twenty twenty, so basically in conjunction

699
00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:56,319
Speaker 1: with Quarantine, And you know, the basic setup is you

700
00:34:56,320 --> 00:34:59,879
Speaker 1: were dropped on two an island or in Eastern Eva,

701
00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:05,600
Speaker 1: vaguely Eastern European battle space right with one hundred other players,

702
00:35:05,680 --> 00:35:08,040
Speaker 1: and you either compete against them one on one or

703
00:35:08,080 --> 00:35:10,560
Speaker 1: you split up in teams of four to compete against

704
00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:14,840
Speaker 1: the other teams, and you scavenge weapons and AMMO and

705
00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:19,920
Speaker 1: share them amongst your team, and so there is this

706
00:35:20,040 --> 00:35:24,640
Speaker 1: kind of like negotiating for resources thing that's going on. Meanwhile,

707
00:35:24,680 --> 00:35:27,040
Speaker 1: you're competing in a battle space that is shrinking all

708
00:35:27,080 --> 00:35:30,840
Speaker 1: the time. There's this circle that is gradually getting smaller,

709
00:35:30,840 --> 00:35:33,440
Speaker 1: and if you are outside that circle, you are taking damage,

710
00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:35,560
Speaker 1: but if you're inside the circle, you remain safe.

711
00:35:35,960 --> 00:35:37,040
Speaker 3: Ah, that is.

712
00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:39,040
Speaker 2: So interesting because that's from bower House.

713
00:35:39,080 --> 00:35:41,759
Speaker 1: So they're right, and I think, you know, at least

714
00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:45,319
Speaker 1: for me, it's like we are constantly inundated in the

715
00:35:45,360 --> 00:35:49,680
Speaker 1: news with story upon story about like the unstoppable nature

716
00:35:49,719 --> 00:35:52,200
Speaker 1: of climate change and how it is shrinking the livable

717
00:35:52,200 --> 00:35:55,800
Speaker 1: space of the world. There's fires over here, there's crazy

718
00:35:55,800 --> 00:36:01,239
Speaker 1: storms over here, you know, extreme temperatures here, populations on

719
00:36:01,280 --> 00:36:04,640
Speaker 1: the move, and it seems like the people who are

720
00:36:04,680 --> 00:36:07,160
Speaker 1: supposed to do something about it are completely powerless to

721
00:36:07,200 --> 00:36:10,880
Speaker 1: do anything about it, because, like in squid game. The

722
00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:15,920
Speaker 1: game itself has its own agency and it is pursuing

723
00:36:15,960 --> 00:36:18,640
Speaker 1: its own ends. The game wants to exist and wants

724
00:36:18,680 --> 00:36:22,839
Speaker 1: to continue being played, and no one really has any

725
00:36:23,560 --> 00:36:26,439
Speaker 1: power to stop the game from doing its thing. Yeah,

726
00:36:26,480 --> 00:36:28,200
Speaker 1: And I think a lot of the ways that people

727
00:36:28,239 --> 00:36:29,840
Speaker 1: and again this is my own theory, this is what

728
00:36:29,880 --> 00:36:32,279
Speaker 1: I would put forward, is the way that a lot

729
00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:36,960
Speaker 1: of people are working through their anxieties about climate change,

730
00:36:37,239 --> 00:36:41,600
Speaker 1: about the pandemic, about the future are games like Fortnite,

731
00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:46,360
Speaker 1: Call of Duty, Warzone, Apex, Legends, shows and stories like

732
00:36:46,960 --> 00:36:51,239
Speaker 1: Battle Royale, where you put yourself in the shoes of

733
00:36:51,320 --> 00:36:56,800
Speaker 1: people in this world of dwindling resources, of shrinking livable space,

734
00:36:57,160 --> 00:37:00,160
Speaker 1: and you are presented with the question what would you

735
00:36:59,880 --> 00:37:03,239
Speaker 1: do to survive to continue playing the game?

736
00:37:03,440 --> 00:37:06,600
Speaker 3: Yeah. I also think that something that's really interesting, specifically

737
00:37:06,640 --> 00:37:10,439
Speaker 3: in the space of like bower Yal of Squid Game,

738
00:37:10,719 --> 00:37:14,360
Speaker 3: Hunger Games, even like it's also really interesting. So Boweryal

739
00:37:14,480 --> 00:37:18,480
Speaker 3: is like the idea is that because of student delinquency

740
00:37:18,760 --> 00:37:22,759
Speaker 3: and population kind of huge population stuff, they're gonna just

741
00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:25,200
Speaker 3: get classes of kids to kill each other off, right,

742
00:37:25,360 --> 00:37:29,480
Speaker 3: And in squid Game, are Gian are in character is

743
00:37:29,520 --> 00:37:32,520
Speaker 3: an addict So I think something that is really appealing

744
00:37:32,560 --> 00:37:36,080
Speaker 3: about these stories is these characters who are put into

745
00:37:36,120 --> 00:37:40,719
Speaker 3: these situations are not putting inverted commas good. You get

746
00:37:40,760 --> 00:37:43,360
Speaker 3: flawed characters in Boweryal the kids, you see one of

747
00:37:43,400 --> 00:37:46,720
Speaker 3: the kids stab at teacher like, but they still deserve

748
00:37:46,800 --> 00:37:49,239
Speaker 3: to live and not be put in these terrible situations,

749
00:37:49,280 --> 00:37:52,560
Speaker 3: and squid Game is a really expanded version of that

750
00:37:52,680 --> 00:37:55,719
Speaker 3: because the long form storytelling means we get to meet

751
00:37:55,760 --> 00:37:58,239
Speaker 3: all these different people and learn the different things that

752
00:37:58,360 --> 00:38:01,320
Speaker 3: drive them and the struggles that they've had and the

753
00:38:01,360 --> 00:38:03,720
Speaker 3: ways that they choose to live their lives and why.

754
00:38:04,280 --> 00:38:07,799
Speaker 3: And I think that people really want that empathy for

755
00:38:07,920 --> 00:38:11,279
Speaker 3: themselves and they want to hopefully have that empathy for

756
00:38:11,320 --> 00:38:13,879
Speaker 3: other people. So I think that kind of having these

757
00:38:13,920 --> 00:38:17,279
Speaker 3: stories where flawed people are put in terrible situations by

758
00:38:17,680 --> 00:38:21,560
Speaker 3: extremely rich, terrible people making decisions that do not help them,

759
00:38:21,960 --> 00:38:26,360
Speaker 3: that's probably very relatable to a lot of people. And

760
00:38:26,440 --> 00:38:29,440
Speaker 3: I think that kind of the bad rich people having

761
00:38:29,560 --> 00:38:32,719
Speaker 3: fun at the expense of people struggling who are just

762
00:38:32,719 --> 00:38:35,240
Speaker 3: trying to do their best, that is a very relatable story.

763
00:38:35,239 --> 00:38:36,759
Speaker 3: And like you said, it's also something we see on

764
00:38:36,760 --> 00:38:39,319
Speaker 3: the news. It's something that we see in real life.

765
00:38:39,360 --> 00:38:42,040
Speaker 3: So to see it in a more entertainment focused way

766
00:38:42,040 --> 00:38:44,640
Speaker 3: that is also a little bit more searing and satirical

767
00:38:44,680 --> 00:38:46,960
Speaker 3: and kind of pointed, is really appealing.

768
00:38:47,360 --> 00:38:50,200
Speaker 1: I mean, I think that there is something quite trenchant

769
00:38:50,360 --> 00:38:53,880
Speaker 1: for people watching the Squid Game. You know, the idea

770
00:38:54,040 --> 00:38:56,920
Speaker 1: of if you fall into debt. You know, if you

771
00:38:57,000 --> 00:39:00,040
Speaker 1: have some debts, if you've made some maybe poor ECN

772
00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:05,360
Speaker 1: choices or just had bad luck, or if you are elderly,

773
00:39:06,600 --> 00:39:09,440
Speaker 1: you have no value to this society and therefore you

774
00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:13,680
Speaker 1: will you can quite possibly fall into this game. Where

775
00:39:15,280 --> 00:39:21,120
Speaker 1: as brutal as it is, the outcome is basically your

776
00:39:21,239 --> 00:39:25,520
Speaker 1: only shot at upward mobility within the larger context of

777
00:39:25,719 --> 00:39:30,239
Speaker 1: the capitalist system. There is something like brutally truthful about that.

778
00:39:30,480 --> 00:39:33,560
Speaker 1: Although it's hard for me to escape with all of

779
00:39:33,600 --> 00:39:36,520
Speaker 1: these stories, whether it's Battle Royal, Hunger Game, What Have

780
00:39:36,600 --> 00:39:41,400
Speaker 1: You Saw, and then Squid Game, even Parasite, it's an

781
00:39:41,440 --> 00:39:45,000
Speaker 1: incredibly trenching critique of the system, but there is no

782
00:39:45,760 --> 00:39:49,400
Speaker 1: revolutionary answer. The only kind of catharsis at the end

783
00:39:49,400 --> 00:39:54,000
Speaker 1: of Squid Game spoiler is that the human capacity for

784
00:39:54,160 --> 00:39:59,439
Speaker 1: generosity can somehow disrupt the game. But the game continues.

785
00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:04,000
Speaker 1: There is no overthrowing of the game. You know, uh

786
00:40:04,440 --> 00:40:08,680
Speaker 1: song gi Hun just merely decides that he will reject

787
00:40:08,680 --> 00:40:13,319
Speaker 1: the reward. It's not that he wins or even you know,

788
00:40:13,520 --> 00:40:17,560
Speaker 1: unmasks or overthrows the people throwing the game. Yeah.

789
00:40:17,600 --> 00:40:20,480
Speaker 3: I think even like Hunger Games is really really famous

790
00:40:20,760 --> 00:40:23,640
Speaker 3: in the YA community because even though technically there's a revolution,

791
00:40:23,920 --> 00:40:26,560
Speaker 3: it's led by Catus. You know. The end of the

792
00:40:26,600 --> 00:40:29,920
Speaker 3: book is like she has like complex PTSD and hates

793
00:40:29,960 --> 00:40:32,319
Speaker 3: her life and she just lives in this winner's town

794
00:40:32,360 --> 00:40:35,600
Speaker 3: and it's just terrible. And the kind of implication is

795
00:40:35,680 --> 00:40:39,279
Speaker 3: like things don't really get better like it's and that

796
00:40:39,560 --> 00:40:42,719
Speaker 3: I think that is really that's one of the most brutal.

797
00:40:43,120 --> 00:40:46,839
Speaker 3: But also I guess maybe something that really makes these

798
00:40:46,880 --> 00:40:49,919
Speaker 3: stories stand out is they don't often have a happy end. Yeah,

799
00:40:49,960 --> 00:40:55,480
Speaker 3: like squid Game promises maybe he's gonna maybe he's not

800
00:40:55,520 --> 00:40:57,800
Speaker 3: gonna just go on living his life, like he's gonna

801
00:40:57,840 --> 00:40:59,920
Speaker 3: try and maybe do something, but what can he do?

802
00:41:00,640 --> 00:41:00,880
Speaker 4: You know?

803
00:41:01,280 --> 00:41:04,600
Speaker 3: And I think I think squid Games specifically is really

804
00:41:04,680 --> 00:41:10,719
Speaker 3: interesting look at kind of complicity or like how how

805
00:41:10,800 --> 00:41:13,400
Speaker 3: far we would go in that system to kind of

806
00:41:13,400 --> 00:41:18,280
Speaker 3: achieve what we want. Because the episode Gumbao, like the Marbles.

807
00:41:17,840 --> 00:41:22,680
Speaker 1: Episodes, episode six, which is the yeah, the the brutal episode.

808
00:41:22,760 --> 00:41:25,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's just so horrible, but like I'm pretty sure

809
00:41:26,320 --> 00:41:28,520
Speaker 3: from thinking about it and watching it, the episode is

810
00:41:28,560 --> 00:41:31,440
Speaker 3: really you have to team up with someone that you trust.

811
00:41:31,520 --> 00:41:33,200
Speaker 3: They team them up and then they pit them against

812
00:41:33,239 --> 00:41:35,560
Speaker 3: each other in any game of marbles, and all you've

813
00:41:35,600 --> 00:41:39,240
Speaker 3: got to do is get the other the other players

814
00:41:39,320 --> 00:41:42,480
Speaker 3: ten marbles, right, and it's horrible. We see sang Wu

815
00:41:42,600 --> 00:41:45,360
Speaker 3: completely betray Ali, who's like the one of the sweetest

816
00:41:45,440 --> 00:41:48,399
Speaker 3: characters in the show. It's just it's it's a masterclass

817
00:41:48,440 --> 00:41:54,360
Speaker 3: intention and sadness and devastation. But I'm pretty sure that

818
00:41:54,360 --> 00:41:58,120
Speaker 3: that episode is really really key to how squid Game

819
00:41:58,160 --> 00:42:03,040
Speaker 3: works because sang Wu based Lee, who is this star

820
00:42:03,800 --> 00:42:07,040
Speaker 3: of his local area. He went to financial college. He's

821
00:42:07,080 --> 00:42:08,920
Speaker 3: seen as this huge success, but the truth is he's

822
00:42:08,920 --> 00:42:11,520
Speaker 3: in lots of debt and he's an incredibly selfish person.

823
00:42:11,560 --> 00:42:14,200
Speaker 3: As we learn as show goes on. He essentially tricks

824
00:42:14,239 --> 00:42:17,279
Speaker 3: Ali into giving him his marbles and then he says,

825
00:42:17,320 --> 00:42:20,080
Speaker 3: you know, don't I win. If that logic works, then

826
00:42:20,360 --> 00:42:22,960
Speaker 3: every single person there could have just swapped bags of

827
00:42:22,960 --> 00:42:26,360
Speaker 3: marbles with the other person. But I think the kind

828
00:42:26,400 --> 00:42:30,279
Speaker 3: of point of the episode is by that point, they're

829
00:42:30,360 --> 00:42:32,600
Speaker 3: so entrenched in the system that all they can think

830
00:42:32,640 --> 00:42:33,879
Speaker 3: about is like brutality.

831
00:42:34,360 --> 00:42:35,160
Speaker 2: That's a good point.

832
00:42:35,200 --> 00:42:38,000
Speaker 1: I think that what I took away from that episode,

833
00:42:38,400 --> 00:42:41,080
Speaker 1: and what I took away from you know, like so

834
00:42:41,320 --> 00:42:47,319
Speaker 1: Jihun's player four five six is ongoing support for player one,

835
00:42:47,600 --> 00:42:50,600
Speaker 1: the Lily character, is that what the story is telling

836
00:42:50,680 --> 00:42:54,239
Speaker 1: us is that if you pursue your self interest rationally,

837
00:42:54,600 --> 00:42:58,399
Speaker 1: you become part of the system and complicit in its brutality. Right,

838
00:42:58,640 --> 00:43:02,480
Speaker 1: So therefore the way forward, the heroic way forward, is

839
00:43:03,000 --> 00:43:10,360
Speaker 1: to trust your own irrational intuition, right, and emotional connection

840
00:43:10,520 --> 00:43:15,359
Speaker 1: with a person. There's actually no good reason why four

841
00:43:15,400 --> 00:43:18,560
Speaker 1: or five six should select o wil Nam as his

842
00:43:18,680 --> 00:43:21,279
Speaker 1: partner or select him for any of the game, Like,

843
00:43:21,280 --> 00:43:24,840
Speaker 1: there's no good rational reason. He does it because he

844
00:43:24,880 --> 00:43:27,160
Speaker 1: sees that man, and he says, I just feel a

845
00:43:27,200 --> 00:43:30,840
Speaker 1: connection to him, I feel warmly towards him for whatever reason,

846
00:43:30,880 --> 00:43:33,640
Speaker 1: and therefore I'm gonna have him on my team for

847
00:43:33,719 --> 00:43:36,920
Speaker 1: no good reason. But then that becomes the thing that

848
00:43:38,120 --> 00:43:40,000
Speaker 1: allows him to move forward in the game.

849
00:43:40,080 --> 00:43:42,640
Speaker 2: And makes him the hero of our story.

850
00:43:43,160 --> 00:43:46,839
Speaker 1: And it's actually like a quite sad idea, but an

851
00:43:46,880 --> 00:43:50,120
Speaker 1: interesting idea as well, in the way that people make decisions,

852
00:43:50,120 --> 00:43:52,560
Speaker 1: which is that I personally believe that most of us

853
00:43:52,600 --> 00:43:57,000
Speaker 1: make decisions not for reasons of like that we derive

854
00:43:57,160 --> 00:44:02,480
Speaker 1: from rational thought or intellect. We make emotional, intuitive decisions,

855
00:44:02,520 --> 00:44:06,200
Speaker 1: and then we backmap whatever our personal intellectual philosophy is

856
00:44:06,280 --> 00:44:08,799
Speaker 1: on it and say, here's the reason I did that

857
00:44:08,960 --> 00:44:12,319
Speaker 1: based on these criteria, when actually I just made an

858
00:44:12,360 --> 00:44:15,719
Speaker 1: emotional decision. And I think that's that's a lot of

859
00:44:15,719 --> 00:44:18,160
Speaker 1: what happens with player four five six year. He makes

860
00:44:18,200 --> 00:44:22,880
Speaker 1: these emotional, generous decisions that are not based on anything

861
00:44:23,000 --> 00:44:26,520
Speaker 1: rational at all, and he quote unquote wins mm hmm.

862
00:44:27,040 --> 00:44:29,359
Speaker 3: Yeah. There's like I think that's one of the other

863
00:44:29,400 --> 00:44:33,520
Speaker 3: things that probably has made this show so huge. There's

864
00:44:33,600 --> 00:44:36,680
Speaker 3: so many different readings of it and conversations to be

865
00:44:36,840 --> 00:44:40,480
Speaker 3: had and moments, and it's in that sense, like it's

866
00:44:40,520 --> 00:44:43,279
Speaker 3: a real like water cooler show. Even though a lot

867
00:44:43,320 --> 00:44:46,200
Speaker 3: of people aren't in the office. People are talking about online,

868
00:44:46,239 --> 00:44:50,040
Speaker 3: they're talking about it to their friends, They're dming people.

869
00:44:50,160 --> 00:44:52,560
Speaker 3: My friend was like texting our other friends at midnight

870
00:44:52,680 --> 00:44:54,879
Speaker 3: talking about the episodes that they'd watched because they were

871
00:44:54,920 --> 00:44:58,440
Speaker 3: just so like heartbroken by episode six. And I think

872
00:44:58,480 --> 00:45:01,920
Speaker 3: in that way that's also part of its power, because

873
00:45:01,920 --> 00:45:05,279
Speaker 3: they're just all these different readings, and there's also all

874
00:45:05,280 --> 00:45:08,239
Speaker 3: these I'm sure there's people who would be like, yeah,

875
00:45:08,239 --> 00:45:10,360
Speaker 3: I would do what sang Wu did. I would I

876
00:45:10,360 --> 00:45:12,440
Speaker 3: would just do whatever I needed to do to get

877
00:45:12,480 --> 00:45:14,839
Speaker 3: that money and fix my life, and then there's other

878
00:45:14,880 --> 00:45:17,680
Speaker 3: people who are just like, what the fuck is wrong

879
00:45:17,719 --> 00:45:20,560
Speaker 3: with you? I also think another thing that probably appeals

880
00:45:20,600 --> 00:45:23,920
Speaker 3: to people about this show is his character is presented

881
00:45:24,080 --> 00:45:26,960
Speaker 3: as higher education makes you smarter, it makes you better,

882
00:45:27,000 --> 00:45:30,120
Speaker 3: you have succeeded, you are wealthy, but actually he is

883
00:45:30,160 --> 00:45:33,520
Speaker 3: the most morally questionable person that we get to meet

884
00:45:33,560 --> 00:45:37,000
Speaker 3: in the show. And I think that that inversion of

885
00:45:37,320 --> 00:45:41,239
Speaker 3: the idea of like wealthiness and success being next to

886
00:45:41,320 --> 00:45:45,439
Speaker 3: kind of moral goodness or or kind of how well

887
00:45:45,440 --> 00:45:47,000
Speaker 3: your life is, which obviously we're getting a lot of

888
00:45:47,040 --> 00:45:51,080
Speaker 3: good critiques in succession, like rich people are terrible, but yeah,

889
00:45:51,120 --> 00:45:53,319
Speaker 3: I think that. I also think that's really interesting because

890
00:45:53,320 --> 00:45:55,200
Speaker 3: I think in a lot of stories, player four five'

891
00:45:55,239 --> 00:45:58,600
Speaker 3: six would be the character you couldn't trust or the

892
00:45:58,680 --> 00:46:01,960
Speaker 3: character that you're supposed to think is morally has a

893
00:46:01,960 --> 00:46:05,080
Speaker 3: gray area, but really he also goes on that journey

894
00:46:05,120 --> 00:46:07,640
Speaker 3: of realizing it's actually his childhood friend who was meant

895
00:46:07,680 --> 00:46:10,399
Speaker 3: to be this huge, great success. And I think that's

896
00:46:10,400 --> 00:46:11,160
Speaker 3: really interesting.

897
00:46:11,600 --> 00:46:13,279
Speaker 2: How would you do in squid game? How would you

898
00:46:13,320 --> 00:46:13,879
Speaker 2: do in the game.

899
00:46:14,040 --> 00:46:17,080
Speaker 3: I'd be really bad at it, man, Like I know

900
00:46:17,960 --> 00:46:20,040
Speaker 3: in the odd days, I would have been like I

901
00:46:20,120 --> 00:46:22,960
Speaker 3: used to have like a Zombie Apocalypse fan. I that

902
00:46:23,120 --> 00:46:25,520
Speaker 3: Orio was such a formative movie for me. There was

903
00:46:25,560 --> 00:46:28,320
Speaker 3: like three halloweens when I was a teenager that I

904
00:46:28,360 --> 00:46:32,320
Speaker 3: made a bout O Rio costume. I had a shirt

905
00:46:32,400 --> 00:46:35,200
Speaker 3: that was like screen printed, like a white school shirt

906
00:46:35,200 --> 00:46:37,319
Speaker 3: that was screen printed with the girl getting shot on

907
00:46:37,360 --> 00:46:39,239
Speaker 3: the edge of the rocks. Like I loved that movie

908
00:46:39,239 --> 00:46:41,520
Speaker 3: so much. But I'm just like a soft I'm like

909
00:46:41,560 --> 00:46:43,399
Speaker 3: a soft boy. I would I would not be able

910
00:46:43,440 --> 00:46:46,640
Speaker 3: to kill anyone. I would be like helping everyone.

911
00:46:47,000 --> 00:46:48,360
Speaker 1: I will, well, that would make you the cure of

912
00:46:48,440 --> 00:46:52,719
Speaker 1: the story, like in any of these self interest stories,

913
00:46:53,080 --> 00:46:54,080
Speaker 1: you know, like it's the.

914
00:46:54,320 --> 00:46:58,640
Speaker 3: Would die horribly like a I would know, you know what.

915
00:46:58,960 --> 00:47:00,640
Speaker 3: I was watching this show and I thinking a lot.

916
00:47:00,640 --> 00:47:04,440
Speaker 3: And there was definitely a time when I was nineteen whatever,

917
00:47:04,520 --> 00:47:06,080
Speaker 3: and I was super fucking poor and I was just

918
00:47:06,120 --> 00:47:08,959
Speaker 3: living my life. There is a time when I could

919
00:47:08,960 --> 00:47:11,439
Speaker 3: imagine in a fictional world that I would have been

920
00:47:11,600 --> 00:47:14,719
Speaker 3: enticed by something similar in a fictional sense, like and

921
00:47:14,760 --> 00:47:16,600
Speaker 3: in that way, maybe I would have had the survival

922
00:47:16,640 --> 00:47:18,560
Speaker 3: and think, but now I'm in my thirties, I just

923
00:47:18,640 --> 00:47:20,520
Speaker 3: want to like drink some tea and like chill. I

924
00:47:20,560 --> 00:47:22,479
Speaker 3: would just be like, I'd be like, I'm not going

925
00:47:22,480 --> 00:47:25,279
Speaker 3: in there, like I don't need the money. I'll be

926
00:47:25,280 --> 00:47:27,040
Speaker 3: because I'm gonna die. How would you do?

927
00:47:27,800 --> 00:47:30,239
Speaker 1: No, I think i'd be like, so, red light, green light,

928
00:47:30,280 --> 00:47:33,600
Speaker 1: I'd be fine, let's go through them, let's see okay, Yeah,

929
00:47:33,600 --> 00:47:34,240
Speaker 1: that's a good idea.

930
00:47:34,320 --> 00:47:36,200
Speaker 2: Let's just go to so yeah, let's just go down there.

931
00:47:36,239 --> 00:47:38,719
Speaker 3: So I'm clumsy, red light, I'd be shot straight away.

932
00:47:38,760 --> 00:47:39,440
Speaker 2: Red Light, green Light.

933
00:47:39,480 --> 00:47:41,440
Speaker 1: I think I'd be okay because I think I would

934
00:47:41,480 --> 00:47:45,680
Speaker 1: realize off the bad what it was.

935
00:47:45,920 --> 00:47:46,919
Speaker 2: What is the second game?

936
00:47:47,000 --> 00:47:47,399
Speaker 4: The vote?

937
00:47:47,520 --> 00:47:51,879
Speaker 1: This is where they vote. I would vote leave, it's

938
00:47:51,920 --> 00:47:54,560
Speaker 1: not worth like, you know, whatever else is going on

939
00:47:54,600 --> 00:47:54,879
Speaker 1: in my.

940
00:47:54,800 --> 00:47:56,040
Speaker 2: Life, I would definitely leave.

941
00:47:56,640 --> 00:47:57,120
Speaker 5: Uh.

942
00:47:57,160 --> 00:47:59,439
Speaker 1: And then so then they're outside and then we get

943
00:48:00,200 --> 00:48:03,879
Speaker 1: of war game where they have to think strategically. I'm

944
00:48:03,880 --> 00:48:06,200
Speaker 1: bad at tugger war like, I would not be good.

945
00:48:06,640 --> 00:48:09,200
Speaker 3: Like no upper arm strength, I would I would lose.

946
00:48:09,320 --> 00:48:12,360
Speaker 3: I think unless they had a cool strategic.

947
00:48:11,920 --> 00:48:17,560
Speaker 1: We would need someone like oh Illnam to talk us through. Okay,

948
00:48:17,960 --> 00:48:20,600
Speaker 1: we need the strongest person in the back. Everybody set

949
00:48:20,600 --> 00:48:23,319
Speaker 1: their feet facing straight. You pull as hard as you

950
00:48:23,400 --> 00:48:27,080
Speaker 1: can for sixty Yeah, it's like okay, and then so

951
00:48:27,239 --> 00:48:32,840
Speaker 1: that one I would do bad. Let's see the next game. Okay,

952
00:48:32,880 --> 00:48:36,759
Speaker 1: the marbles game, forget it. I don't know that I'd

953
00:48:36,840 --> 00:48:38,600
Speaker 1: be killed. I would be end up being shot.

954
00:48:38,680 --> 00:48:42,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, I would just I would just try and convince someone.

955
00:48:42,760 --> 00:48:45,080
Speaker 3: Like when you had the two young girls, you know,

956
00:48:46,080 --> 00:48:48,040
Speaker 3: and they didn't know any games because they're not like

957
00:48:48,040 --> 00:48:50,080
Speaker 3: boomers and they're young. I was like, just make up

958
00:48:50,080 --> 00:48:51,880
Speaker 3: a game, they said, any game. Just make up a

959
00:48:51,880 --> 00:48:55,200
Speaker 3: game called Swap Season, swap your marbles. In the situation,

960
00:48:55,880 --> 00:48:59,719
Speaker 3: maybe that one I could potentially survive just by out

961
00:48:59,760 --> 00:49:02,040
Speaker 3: with them. But then again, they'd probably be pissed that

962
00:49:02,080 --> 00:49:03,440
Speaker 3: I did that and then shoot me in the head.

963
00:49:03,520 --> 00:49:06,759
Speaker 3: So I would probably I definitely would have died during

964
00:49:06,800 --> 00:49:07,920
Speaker 3: the Honeycomb.

965
00:49:07,480 --> 00:49:10,960
Speaker 1: Game, I have like zero god that one, yeah detailed

966
00:49:10,960 --> 00:49:12,919
Speaker 1: that one, I'd be okay.

967
00:49:13,280 --> 00:49:15,560
Speaker 3: If it was the licking, I could have worked. If

968
00:49:15,600 --> 00:49:17,759
Speaker 3: I'd have seen player four five six licking it, then

969
00:49:17,760 --> 00:49:19,239
Speaker 3: I would have been fine. But with the needle, I

970
00:49:19,280 --> 00:49:20,759
Speaker 3: definitely would have broken.

971
00:49:20,480 --> 00:49:21,799
Speaker 2: The Honeycomb game, I'd be fine.

972
00:49:21,840 --> 00:49:26,440
Speaker 1: And then there's the glass Walkways game that one I

973
00:49:26,440 --> 00:49:28,960
Speaker 1: would just I would fall. I would fall, And I

974
00:49:29,000 --> 00:49:32,480
Speaker 1: don't have the canniness to like betray somebody else or

975
00:49:32,520 --> 00:49:34,880
Speaker 1: push somebody else onto the thing and be like you

976
00:49:34,920 --> 00:49:35,920
Speaker 1: go first.

977
00:49:36,560 --> 00:49:38,680
Speaker 3: So the only thing I think that they obviously missed

978
00:49:38,719 --> 00:49:40,640
Speaker 3: there that I would have I would have tried to

979
00:49:40,680 --> 00:49:42,640
Speaker 3: do this, but I also would have still fallen because

980
00:49:42,640 --> 00:49:44,799
Speaker 3: I'm very short and I can't jump very far. But

981
00:49:44,880 --> 00:49:48,719
Speaker 3: like I think that they should have taken the shoes

982
00:49:49,239 --> 00:49:51,239
Speaker 3: that they took off and throw them, use them to

983
00:49:51,239 --> 00:49:54,080
Speaker 3: throw on the glass. I don't see any rule against them.

984
00:49:54,560 --> 00:49:56,920
Speaker 1: A lot of times, yeah door just like bash on

985
00:49:56,960 --> 00:49:59,360
Speaker 1: it with your hand. Could you just like reach exhaust

986
00:49:59,440 --> 00:50:02,600
Speaker 1: and like bash on it. They were like they were

987
00:50:02,640 --> 00:50:05,040
Speaker 1: committed too much to jump. Okay, so what if it

988
00:50:05,080 --> 00:50:05,799
Speaker 1: was squid game?

989
00:50:06,000 --> 00:50:07,040
Speaker 3: But can do you.

990
00:50:07,000 --> 00:50:08,080
Speaker 2: Think you Oh, I think i'd win.

991
00:50:08,160 --> 00:50:10,120
Speaker 1: I think i'd be good at I also think i'd

992
00:50:10,160 --> 00:50:13,040
Speaker 1: be good at the actual squid game. I think i'd

993
00:50:13,040 --> 00:50:17,080
Speaker 1: be pretty good at that because I'm wiley and I

994
00:50:17,120 --> 00:50:19,640
Speaker 1: have I can I'm not fast, but I can fake

995
00:50:19,719 --> 00:50:21,440
Speaker 1: you out. I think I have some good fakes. I

996
00:50:21,480 --> 00:50:24,400
Speaker 1: think I'd be all right at that game, but I

997
00:50:24,480 --> 00:50:27,440
Speaker 1: don't I would be killed. I'd be killed somewhere in

998
00:50:27,480 --> 00:50:30,040
Speaker 1: the middle of this game. No, there's no question. Certainly,

999
00:50:30,120 --> 00:50:32,560
Speaker 1: like when the lights went out and everybody started massacring

1000
00:50:32,560 --> 00:50:35,440
Speaker 1: each other, like at that point, I would probably be killed.

1001
00:50:35,560 --> 00:50:37,680
Speaker 3: I would definitely be dead. I know. I was like,

1002
00:50:37,880 --> 00:50:40,040
Speaker 3: I was trying to think of, like what other like

1003
00:50:40,239 --> 00:50:43,279
Speaker 3: funny games. They would like Squid Game, but it's like

1004
00:50:43,360 --> 00:50:46,560
Speaker 3: musical chas. That would be like so Grim to Die

1005
00:50:46,800 --> 00:50:47,680
Speaker 3: with musical chas.

1006
00:50:49,480 --> 00:50:54,240
Speaker 1: Rotten Tomatoes ninety one percent critics approval, eighty five percent

1007
00:50:54,280 --> 00:50:58,719
Speaker 1: audience approval. It's certainly one of the zeitgeistiest hits in

1008
00:50:59,200 --> 00:51:04,879
Speaker 1: recent memory. If you haven't watched Battle Royale and you're like, oh,

1009
00:51:04,880 --> 00:51:06,440
Speaker 1: what is is there anything else like this?

1010
00:51:07,760 --> 00:51:09,920
Speaker 2: Go rent the movie Battle Royal and watch it.

1011
00:51:10,040 --> 00:51:13,680
Speaker 3: Pitch it to our y yeah, So it's really just

1012
00:51:14,040 --> 00:51:19,239
Speaker 3: one of the most important kind of Japanese movies of

1013
00:51:19,320 --> 00:51:22,480
Speaker 3: that era. It was based on a book that came

1014
00:51:22,520 --> 00:51:24,839
Speaker 3: out in nineteen ninety nine. Within a year they'd made

1015
00:51:24,880 --> 00:51:27,000
Speaker 3: a manga and a movie of it. The book is

1016
00:51:27,000 --> 00:51:31,799
Speaker 3: by Koshin Takami and Kinji Fuksaku, who directed Bow Royal

1017
00:51:32,000 --> 00:51:34,759
Speaker 3: is like a really famous Japanese war movie director. So

1018
00:51:35,960 --> 00:51:38,960
Speaker 3: it's just it's this epicn scope but intimate in story.

1019
00:51:39,200 --> 00:51:43,239
Speaker 3: It stars beat Takeshi as a teacher who ends up

1020
00:51:44,040 --> 00:51:47,359
Speaker 3: overseeing this class of kids who have been drugged. Very

1021
00:51:47,400 --> 00:51:49,799
Speaker 3: much like there's a lot of stuff that Squid Game

1022
00:51:49,880 --> 00:51:52,120
Speaker 3: touches on from Boweryal. They get gassed on their way

1023
00:51:52,160 --> 00:51:54,120
Speaker 3: on a school trip. They end upon this island. They

1024
00:51:54,239 --> 00:51:58,480
Speaker 3: each given a random weapon. It can be anything from

1025
00:51:58,600 --> 00:52:02,680
Speaker 3: a dustbin lid to a side or an ak forty seven.

1026
00:52:02,960 --> 00:52:05,000
Speaker 3: There's a kid on the island who's played the game before.

1027
00:52:05,120 --> 00:52:09,680
Speaker 3: He's just a psychopath. He has a machine gun. And

1028
00:52:10,840 --> 00:52:13,320
Speaker 3: it is very similar to Squid Game in the nature

1029
00:52:13,320 --> 00:52:15,200
Speaker 3: of like what would you do, would you team up?

1030
00:52:15,239 --> 00:52:18,440
Speaker 3: Would you not team up? It has unbelievably cool aesthetics.

1031
00:52:18,800 --> 00:52:20,880
Speaker 3: It's just such a cool movie and it and it

1032
00:52:20,920 --> 00:52:22,880
Speaker 3: has you know, it's it's kind of funny because I

1033
00:52:22,920 --> 00:52:24,879
Speaker 3: think watching it now, like some people, if you haven't

1034
00:52:24,880 --> 00:52:26,439
Speaker 3: seen it before, you'll you'll kind of be like, oh,

1035
00:52:26,440 --> 00:52:28,680
Speaker 3: this is a little bit like Tame. It's very brutal.

1036
00:52:28,719 --> 00:52:31,200
Speaker 3: There's a lot of violence, but it has u there's

1037
00:52:31,320 --> 00:52:34,120
Speaker 3: quiet moments, and those also lead to some of the

1038
00:52:35,080 --> 00:52:37,520
Speaker 3: best most brutal sections. Like I would just say, if

1039
00:52:37,520 --> 00:52:39,360
Speaker 3: you're watching it, keep an eye out for the lighthouse.

1040
00:52:39,400 --> 00:52:42,640
Speaker 3: I always remember that. Another thing I would say that's

1041
00:52:42,719 --> 00:52:45,840
Speaker 3: really key to look into if you enjoyed this is

1042
00:52:46,280 --> 00:52:49,880
Speaker 3: So there's a manga called Kaiji and I know that.

1043
00:52:49,960 --> 00:52:51,880
Speaker 3: I think Reddit and a lot of other places have

1044
00:52:52,000 --> 00:52:54,960
Speaker 3: been very much have been like really keen on talking

1045
00:52:55,000 --> 00:52:58,600
Speaker 3: about this because so Kagi's by a nobodyuk Fu Kamoto.

1046
00:52:59,000 --> 00:53:01,040
Speaker 3: It's among from Night and Night six They've got and

1047
00:53:01,120 --> 00:53:03,799
Speaker 3: the first arc is called Gambling Apocalypse, and then it

1048
00:53:03,840 --> 00:53:07,279
Speaker 3: became an anime called Ultimate Survivor, and it's basically about

1049
00:53:07,320 --> 00:53:10,719
Speaker 3: a gambling addict who gets really really into debt and

1050
00:53:10,760 --> 00:53:15,600
Speaker 3: then gets asked to play dangerous games to solve his debts. Now,

1051
00:53:15,760 --> 00:53:17,480
Speaker 3: you don't end up dying in this, you end up

1052
00:53:17,480 --> 00:53:19,719
Speaker 3: getting put into manual labor if you lose. But like

1053
00:53:19,760 --> 00:53:21,359
Speaker 3: the first game he plays is like a rock paper

1054
00:53:21,360 --> 00:53:24,120
Speaker 3: scissors game. Bowery and Kaiji are the two things I

1055
00:53:24,160 --> 00:53:26,719
Speaker 3: think you would probably just absolutely love to jump into

1056
00:53:26,760 --> 00:53:30,000
Speaker 3: if you're looking for a deadly games story that has

1057
00:53:30,120 --> 00:53:32,719
Speaker 3: echoes of that social commentary. I wrote an article at

1058
00:53:32,760 --> 00:53:35,279
Speaker 3: Nerdice like nine things to watch after Squid Game that's

1059
00:53:35,320 --> 00:53:38,280
Speaker 3: a bit more broad and kind of looks at different

1060
00:53:38,320 --> 00:53:40,960
Speaker 3: kind of social commentary movies and shows. But those are

1061
00:53:40,960 --> 00:53:43,560
Speaker 3: the two things I think, And Bowerial is definitely at top.

1062
00:53:43,560 --> 00:53:46,600
Speaker 3: I think it's actually streaming free stream like to be

1063
00:53:47,040 --> 00:53:48,560
Speaker 3: put IMV Amazon.

1064
00:53:48,680 --> 00:53:52,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, it's been fascinating to talk about Rosie.

1065
00:53:52,120 --> 00:53:56,880
Speaker 2: Up next, The Hive Mind.

1066
00:54:06,320 --> 00:54:09,040
Speaker 1: Welcome to the Hive Mind, where we dive deeper into

1067
00:54:09,080 --> 00:54:12,400
Speaker 1: a specific topic. This week, X ray Vision is including

1068
00:54:12,440 --> 00:54:16,000
Speaker 1: a conversation with two producers on the acclaimed anime anthology

1069
00:54:16,080 --> 00:54:20,600
Speaker 1: series Star Wars Visions, Jackie Lopez, VP of Franchise Production

1070
00:54:20,600 --> 00:54:24,000
Speaker 1: at Lucasfilm Animation and Kanako sher Asaki, head of production

1071
00:54:24,120 --> 00:54:29,920
Speaker 1: at Cubic Pictures. Before we get into it, what's your

1072
00:54:29,960 --> 00:54:34,200
Speaker 1: relationship to animation? How did you get into this line

1073
00:54:34,200 --> 00:54:36,560
Speaker 1: of work, which is you know I have Whenever I'm

1074
00:54:36,719 --> 00:54:41,000
Speaker 1: speaking to people who have what I would call cool jobs,

1075
00:54:42,120 --> 00:54:44,400
Speaker 1: it's always I always love asking them how they got

1076
00:54:44,440 --> 00:54:47,839
Speaker 1: into it, because, you know, it's for me as a

1077
00:54:47,880 --> 00:54:50,880
Speaker 1: fan of all this stuff, the idea that you could

1078
00:54:51,400 --> 00:54:55,520
Speaker 1: have as your job, you know, working for Lucasfilm or

1079
00:54:55,560 --> 00:54:58,359
Speaker 1: working for Cubic and doing all this animation stuff. It's

1080
00:54:58,400 --> 00:55:00,560
Speaker 1: so cool and so interesting, and I'm sure there's a

1081
00:55:00,560 --> 00:55:02,360
Speaker 1: lot of people who would love to know.

1082
00:55:02,520 --> 00:55:03,120
Speaker 2: How do you do it?

1083
00:55:03,160 --> 00:55:05,799
Speaker 1: How did it happen? So what is your personal relationship

1084
00:55:05,880 --> 00:55:08,799
Speaker 1: with animation? How did you get into this story with

1085
00:55:08,880 --> 00:55:10,800
Speaker 1: Jackie Hi?

1086
00:55:11,239 --> 00:55:13,480
Speaker 7: Well, I feel like I got into it in a

1087
00:55:13,640 --> 00:55:17,719
Speaker 7: very circuitous fashion. So I feel like a lot of

1088
00:55:17,760 --> 00:55:21,279
Speaker 7: people I know who are in this business have a

1089
00:55:21,360 --> 00:55:24,200
Speaker 7: very similar story. So for those out there, it's like

1090
00:55:24,239 --> 00:55:28,279
Speaker 7: sometimes there's many many ways into cool jobs, and I

1091
00:55:28,320 --> 00:55:34,160
Speaker 7: do think my job is cool. I started in live action.

1092
00:55:34,719 --> 00:55:38,279
Speaker 7: I always loved films, so I started in live action

1093
00:55:38,440 --> 00:55:43,920
Speaker 7: production and then fell into a niche corner of visual effects,

1094
00:55:45,320 --> 00:55:48,960
Speaker 7: and I just loved the craftsmanship of visual effects, you know,

1095
00:55:49,640 --> 00:55:56,160
Speaker 7: miniatures and puppets and pyrotechnics. It was just really the

1096
00:55:56,200 --> 00:56:00,759
Speaker 7: collaboration with really smart people was just I was drawn to.

1097
00:56:01,719 --> 00:56:05,680
Speaker 7: And as visual effects progressed, we started doing more and

1098
00:56:05,760 --> 00:56:12,480
Speaker 7: more animation and animation into live action plates. And the

1099
00:56:12,560 --> 00:56:15,719
Speaker 7: more I did that, the more I realized, Wow, I

1100
00:56:15,880 --> 00:56:20,600
Speaker 7: really love telling the story with these animated characters as

1101
00:56:20,719 --> 00:56:26,319
Speaker 7: the main protagonists. And so I BeO Wolf. I did

1102
00:56:26,320 --> 00:56:29,760
Speaker 7: Beowulf with Robertson Mechis, and I've just been in animation

1103
00:56:29,920 --> 00:56:32,239
Speaker 7: ever since. I just love it. I love two D,

1104
00:56:32,520 --> 00:56:36,560
Speaker 7: I love three D, and I've been fortunate enough to

1105
00:56:36,760 --> 00:56:42,600
Speaker 7: sort of be able to dabble in all of those formats, so.

1106
00:56:43,320 --> 00:56:50,759
Speaker 5: I'd be always interesting mutual understanding through different cultures. I'm Japanese,

1107
00:56:50,880 --> 00:56:54,399
Speaker 5: but my half families are from China, and I grew

1108
00:56:54,480 --> 00:56:57,759
Speaker 5: up in Japan is half Japanese and half Chinese. So

1109
00:56:58,120 --> 00:57:01,520
Speaker 5: really interesting that type of And after I moved to

1110
00:57:01,560 --> 00:57:05,680
Speaker 5: New York, I worked for a non profit organization there's

1111
00:57:05,760 --> 00:57:12,680
Speaker 5: cultural Japanese cultural promotion through performing arts over other related areas,

1112
00:57:12,760 --> 00:57:16,520
Speaker 5: so I was in charge of the section of performing

1113
00:57:16,640 --> 00:57:20,840
Speaker 5: arts and films. And during that time I met Justin Leach,

1114
00:57:21,320 --> 00:57:25,080
Speaker 5: the CEO of the QB Pictures, as a friend and

1115
00:57:25,760 --> 00:57:27,880
Speaker 5: in New York because there are so many film screening

1116
00:57:27,960 --> 00:57:30,360
Speaker 5: or animal film screening in New York, so I occasionally

1117
00:57:30,400 --> 00:57:34,040
Speaker 5: see him. And then I went back to Japan and

1118
00:57:34,160 --> 00:57:36,760
Speaker 5: he suddenly texted me saying, hey, kind of go are

1119
00:57:36,760 --> 00:57:40,520
Speaker 5: you free in December because I go to Tokyo and

1120
00:57:40,560 --> 00:57:42,800
Speaker 5: I have a meeting with these people and I need

1121
00:57:42,800 --> 00:57:46,160
Speaker 5: someone who helped me to coordinate these things and do

1122
00:57:46,280 --> 00:57:50,040
Speaker 5: the translation for my meeting. And I was taking off

1123
00:57:50,080 --> 00:57:53,760
Speaker 5: that time, but I was like, sure, it sounds interesting,

1124
00:57:54,360 --> 00:57:57,520
Speaker 5: he says animas. I was like, okay, sure I can

1125
00:57:57,600 --> 00:58:02,440
Speaker 5: do that. And that's how I got into through Cubic Pictures.

1126
00:58:03,120 --> 00:58:07,080
Speaker 5: So that's one text message when Justin really changed my life.

1127
00:58:10,200 --> 00:58:12,400
Speaker 1: You know, everyone that I speak to and ask that

1128
00:58:12,480 --> 00:58:15,479
Speaker 1: question too, they've all got, you know, to Jackie's point,

1129
00:58:16,120 --> 00:58:19,280
Speaker 1: a really interesting path to get there to Star Wars Visions.

1130
00:58:19,320 --> 00:58:22,600
Speaker 1: How did the how did the project start to take shape?

1131
00:58:22,600 --> 00:58:23,360
Speaker 2: And how did you.

1132
00:58:24,920 --> 00:58:28,240
Speaker 1: Select the studios that ended up taking taking part in this?

1133
00:58:29,240 --> 00:58:35,720
Speaker 7: Either of you, I would say anime doing an anime

1134
00:58:35,840 --> 00:58:38,680
Speaker 7: project has been on our minds at Lucasfilm for a

1135
00:58:38,800 --> 00:58:44,840
Speaker 7: very long time. Where all fans knew George Lucas was

1136
00:58:44,880 --> 00:58:47,880
Speaker 7: not only a fan of Japanese cinema, but he was

1137
00:58:47,920 --> 00:58:52,400
Speaker 7: also a big fan of Japanese animation, you know, with Mizaki, yes,

1138
00:58:52,440 --> 00:58:57,160
Speaker 7: but also it went deeper than that, and we were

1139
00:58:57,200 --> 00:58:59,960
Speaker 7: always looking for the right time or the right way

1140
00:59:01,040 --> 00:59:05,240
Speaker 7: to do a Star Wars expression in anime, and I

1141
00:59:05,280 --> 00:59:09,120
Speaker 7: think as D plus we got up and running it

1142
00:59:09,240 --> 00:59:13,360
Speaker 7: sort of afforded us an opportunity in a way to

1143
00:59:13,400 --> 00:59:16,920
Speaker 7: move forward on this different expression of Star Wars. And

1144
00:59:16,960 --> 00:59:22,479
Speaker 7: then choosing the different studios was very difficult because there

1145
00:59:22,560 --> 00:59:27,800
Speaker 7: are really so many, so many talented studios right now

1146
00:59:27,880 --> 00:59:32,320
Speaker 7: in Japan doing excellent work. And that's where kind of

1147
00:59:32,320 --> 00:59:37,439
Speaker 7: going justin really helped us curate what we were looking for,

1148
00:59:37,560 --> 00:59:43,200
Speaker 7: because we knew we wanted a variety of styles and storytelling,

1149
00:59:43,640 --> 00:59:47,880
Speaker 7: to the heavy action, to the heartwarming, to the slow

1150
00:59:47,880 --> 00:59:52,080
Speaker 7: and serene. So it was really kind of going justin

1151
00:59:52,200 --> 00:59:54,680
Speaker 7: helping guide us. There are some we knew we wanted

1152
00:59:54,720 --> 00:59:57,640
Speaker 7: to go to, but then they were introducing us to

1153
00:59:57,720 --> 01:00:00,880
Speaker 7: the works of many others kind of if you want

1154
01:00:00,920 --> 01:00:02,160
Speaker 7: to expand.

1155
01:00:01,720 --> 01:00:06,360
Speaker 5: On that, sure, yeah. So what we really wanted to

1156
01:00:06,400 --> 01:00:10,840
Speaker 5: show is that there's no one type of Japanese anime.

1157
01:00:11,480 --> 01:00:14,920
Speaker 5: There's like it has like like many there's many different

1158
01:00:14,960 --> 01:00:18,320
Speaker 5: types of movie. There's many different type of Japanese anime

1159
01:00:18,840 --> 01:00:23,920
Speaker 5: and has different style and storytelling, different style and visual expression.

1160
01:00:24,400 --> 01:00:27,640
Speaker 5: So since this might be for some people this is

1161
01:00:27,680 --> 01:00:32,280
Speaker 5: the first time seeing Japanese anime, so we really wanted

1162
01:00:32,320 --> 01:00:35,280
Speaker 5: to make sure there's going to be a great introduction

1163
01:00:35,480 --> 01:00:38,600
Speaker 5: for them who doesn't really who are not familiar with

1164
01:00:38,720 --> 01:00:43,919
Speaker 5: Japanese anime. So justin also like he was, he used

1165
01:00:43,920 --> 01:00:47,120
Speaker 5: to work at Production IG before and knows uh so

1166
01:00:47,240 --> 01:00:50,480
Speaker 5: many has so many connections in Japanese anime industry, so

1167
01:00:50,920 --> 01:00:54,640
Speaker 5: he did lots of extensive research and in which studios

1168
01:00:54,680 --> 01:00:55,520
Speaker 5: to reach out to.

1169
01:00:56,640 --> 01:00:58,560
Speaker 1: If you had to break it down, what are the

1170
01:00:58,680 --> 01:01:04,120
Speaker 1: kind of main styles within anime, what are the main

1171
01:01:04,240 --> 01:01:07,680
Speaker 1: schools and you know aesthetic styles that we see and

1172
01:01:07,720 --> 01:01:10,840
Speaker 1: how did you try to present those to Lucasfilms as

1173
01:01:11,240 --> 01:01:13,480
Speaker 1: possible expressions for this project.

1174
01:01:14,360 --> 01:01:19,600
Speaker 5: I think that also the style changes by like a decade,

1175
01:01:19,800 --> 01:01:22,640
Speaker 5: like if you look at the nineties animation and like

1176
01:01:22,960 --> 01:01:27,080
Speaker 5: animations from two twenty ten and from the ten years

1177
01:01:27,120 --> 01:01:31,440
Speaker 5: from there, like the trend in character designs look so

1178
01:01:31,600 --> 01:01:35,919
Speaker 5: different as well as like it was one hundred person

1179
01:01:36,040 --> 01:01:38,800
Speaker 5: hand painted before and now there's a three D c

1180
01:01:38,920 --> 01:01:41,360
Speaker 5: G animation a little bit, and there's a combination of

1181
01:01:41,400 --> 01:01:46,640
Speaker 5: these two. So I think the visual expression of change

1182
01:01:46,760 --> 01:01:51,040
Speaker 5: a lot since then, but the core storytelling might be

1183
01:01:51,080 --> 01:01:55,480
Speaker 5: the same throughout. They have a theme for like families

1184
01:01:55,680 --> 01:02:01,280
Speaker 5: or like relationship between characters. So what we really trying

1185
01:02:01,360 --> 01:02:04,400
Speaker 5: to show here was like we wanted to show the

1186
01:02:04,400 --> 01:02:08,000
Speaker 5: production I g. Like the industry veteran who's being there

1187
01:02:08,040 --> 01:02:12,800
Speaker 5: for really long time, to like a very young studio,

1188
01:02:12,840 --> 01:02:16,000
Speaker 5: like a studio co Rado and Jena studio who has

1189
01:02:16,200 --> 01:02:19,680
Speaker 5: really like fresh ideas and trying to find like a

1190
01:02:19,720 --> 01:02:24,480
Speaker 5: new artist to bring out a new expressions. So that

1191
01:02:24,760 --> 01:02:27,520
Speaker 5: is yeah, that is what we are looking for when

1192
01:02:27,560 --> 01:02:28,480
Speaker 5: we are in discussion.

1193
01:02:29,600 --> 01:02:32,080
Speaker 1: And Jackie, how did the engagement, the creative part of

1194
01:02:32,080 --> 01:02:34,600
Speaker 1: this process work. What kind of guidelines, if any, did

1195
01:02:34,720 --> 01:02:38,720
Speaker 1: Lucasfilm give the studios or was it just give us

1196
01:02:38,760 --> 01:02:40,360
Speaker 1: your wildest pitch?

1197
01:02:41,800 --> 01:02:44,280
Speaker 7: Well, I think in the beginning it was sort of

1198
01:02:44,560 --> 01:02:46,520
Speaker 7: you know, what would your story be, what kind of

1199
01:02:46,560 --> 01:02:49,680
Speaker 7: story would you want to tell? And we asked for

1200
01:02:50,440 --> 01:02:53,920
Speaker 7: pitches from the studios and we said you could just

1201
01:02:53,960 --> 01:02:56,120
Speaker 7: give us one if you only have one idea, or

1202
01:02:56,120 --> 01:02:58,960
Speaker 7: if you have a few go ahead and let us

1203
01:02:59,000 --> 01:03:03,360
Speaker 7: know what those are. And so we didn't really give

1204
01:03:03,400 --> 01:03:08,160
Speaker 7: guidelines at the beginning, so we got some really great

1205
01:03:08,240 --> 01:03:11,919
Speaker 7: pitches in and then we had to curate from there,

1206
01:03:12,160 --> 01:03:13,960
Speaker 7: you know, because if there were two that were kind

1207
01:03:14,000 --> 01:03:17,280
Speaker 7: of the same or focused on the same type of story,

1208
01:03:17,320 --> 01:03:20,160
Speaker 7: we kind of curated the stories and.

1209
01:03:20,120 --> 01:03:21,040
Speaker 5: Then from there.

1210
01:03:21,680 --> 01:03:25,200
Speaker 7: You know, we were nervous because I know, these Japanese

1211
01:03:25,440 --> 01:03:28,000
Speaker 7: creatives that we went out to, you know, they're not

1212
01:03:28,160 --> 01:03:32,560
Speaker 7: used to creative guidance like that, right, because that's there.

1213
01:03:32,880 --> 01:03:35,600
Speaker 7: So we try to be very respectful of that and

1214
01:03:35,760 --> 01:03:39,640
Speaker 7: just sort of help them give guidelines or dig out

1215
01:03:39,760 --> 01:03:43,440
Speaker 7: the story a little more. But it went very smoothly.

1216
01:03:43,480 --> 01:03:46,439
Speaker 7: I mean, we were dealing working with people who are

1217
01:03:46,560 --> 01:03:51,919
Speaker 7: really professional and great at their craft, so I would

1218
01:03:51,960 --> 01:03:55,320
Speaker 7: say we just had little bumpers, but it was really

1219
01:03:55,360 --> 01:03:59,480
Speaker 7: their stories and their visions that we helped bring to

1220
01:03:59,520 --> 01:03:59,960
Speaker 7: the screen.

1221
01:04:00,840 --> 01:04:04,920
Speaker 1: As you mentioned, y'all were looking for a range of

1222
01:04:05,000 --> 01:04:09,640
Speaker 1: styles and tones. Do you have any favorites from the

1223
01:04:09,680 --> 01:04:13,200
Speaker 1: series that or stand out moments that you just personally like,

1224
01:04:13,480 --> 01:04:15,560
Speaker 1: really vibe with you really like Knaco.

1225
01:04:17,560 --> 01:04:22,040
Speaker 5: Oh, that's hard to pick a favorite moments because there's like,

1226
01:04:22,760 --> 01:04:25,800
Speaker 5: there are just so many great moments. I would say, like,

1227
01:04:25,840 --> 01:04:29,480
Speaker 5: so four studios did the sound mixing together was Skywalker

1228
01:04:29,600 --> 01:04:33,480
Speaker 5: Sound and it's like remotely so people connecting through the

1229
01:04:33,480 --> 01:04:38,200
Speaker 5: Internet and then listen to the odeo. That was really

1230
01:04:38,360 --> 01:04:41,920
Speaker 5: cool experience because that is a great cooboration between the

1231
01:04:41,960 --> 01:04:46,120
Speaker 5: Skywalker sound and the studios in Japan. Many Japanese people

1232
01:04:46,200 --> 01:04:49,959
Speaker 5: are shy a little bit in front of camera, so

1233
01:04:50,320 --> 01:04:54,440
Speaker 5: the first reaction they listened to Skywalker sound mix was

1234
01:04:54,480 --> 01:04:59,080
Speaker 5: a little difficult for us to decode. I was like,

1235
01:05:00,040 --> 01:05:03,360
Speaker 5: and then we don't really see everyone's reaction because camera

1236
01:05:03,480 --> 01:05:06,240
Speaker 5: is a one part of one section of the studio

1237
01:05:06,360 --> 01:05:09,240
Speaker 5: in Japan, so we only see like a black wolves

1238
01:05:09,360 --> 01:05:10,960
Speaker 5: and some people moving around.

1239
01:05:11,440 --> 01:05:13,680
Speaker 7: And it was silent, it was violent.

1240
01:05:15,760 --> 01:05:20,280
Speaker 1: I in a previous life, I was a jazz musician.

1241
01:05:20,320 --> 01:05:23,200
Speaker 1: I did this number of gigs in Osaka and Fukawoka

1242
01:05:23,240 --> 01:05:26,680
Speaker 1: in Japan a few years ago, and I remember for

1243
01:05:26,760 --> 01:05:29,760
Speaker 1: Blue Note Records, and the person who brought us there

1244
01:05:29,840 --> 01:05:31,880
Speaker 1: told us he was like, listen, when you're done with

1245
01:05:31,920 --> 01:05:35,520
Speaker 1: the song, you they'll be quiet. But that doesn't mean

1246
01:05:35,560 --> 01:05:37,720
Speaker 1: they know they like it. Believe me, they like it,

1247
01:05:37,760 --> 01:05:39,840
Speaker 1: but they're not going to make any sound, so just

1248
01:05:39,880 --> 01:05:40,600
Speaker 1: be ready for that.

1249
01:05:41,480 --> 01:05:42,040
Speaker 5: Yeah.

1250
01:05:42,200 --> 01:05:45,520
Speaker 7: Yeah, I wish someone would have told us, Jason.

1251
01:05:46,600 --> 01:05:49,440
Speaker 5: So it was. I was trying to say, like, I'm

1252
01:05:49,480 --> 01:05:54,200
Speaker 5: sure they like it, but I remember there's the mixed

1253
01:05:54,200 --> 01:05:58,560
Speaker 5: session was dual, like we heard like after the quiet moment,

1254
01:05:58,800 --> 01:06:03,360
Speaker 5: we heard the key Hen Club being from Japan, and

1255
01:06:03,400 --> 01:06:05,720
Speaker 5: then they fit like they just like had a goose

1256
01:06:05,840 --> 01:06:09,640
Speaker 5: bump and then they couldn't really say anything. I'll be

1257
01:06:09,840 --> 01:06:13,920
Speaker 5: watching their animation with like Star Wars sound on it.

1258
01:06:14,640 --> 01:06:19,760
Speaker 5: So that was a cool moment. Yeah, I really perish, Jackie.

1259
01:06:19,760 --> 01:06:23,320
Speaker 1: Any favorite favorite moments, favorite parts of the series, favorite episodes?

1260
01:06:24,200 --> 01:06:25,520
Speaker 5: Wow, kind of go and.

1261
01:06:25,480 --> 01:06:28,720
Speaker 7: I talk about this all the time because our favorites

1262
01:06:28,800 --> 01:06:32,240
Speaker 7: shift from day to day, from week to week, and

1263
01:06:32,520 --> 01:06:36,800
Speaker 7: my favorites at script page change when it got to storyboards,

1264
01:06:36,800 --> 01:06:39,040
Speaker 7: and then changed again when it got to color, and

1265
01:06:39,080 --> 01:06:40,920
Speaker 7: now they change every day. I'm watching it with my

1266
01:06:40,960 --> 01:06:44,920
Speaker 7: family now on D Plus, And the more I watch them,

1267
01:06:44,960 --> 01:06:48,640
Speaker 7: the more I sort of extract from each one, you know,

1268
01:06:48,720 --> 01:06:52,360
Speaker 7: the depth of meaning really like, oh, I see now

1269
01:06:52,400 --> 01:06:55,720
Speaker 7: that's connect you know. I see new things in them

1270
01:06:55,760 --> 01:06:58,080
Speaker 7: every time I see them, and I have new favorites

1271
01:06:58,120 --> 01:07:03,560
Speaker 7: every different days, so it's really hard to choose a favorite.

1272
01:07:03,560 --> 01:07:06,680
Speaker 7: I really really love them all in it for different reasons.

1273
01:07:07,280 --> 01:07:11,640
Speaker 1: Jack, you spoke about the craftsmanship that is there in

1274
01:07:11,680 --> 01:07:16,520
Speaker 1: the animation space through both of your experience in this field, Like,

1275
01:07:16,640 --> 01:07:20,720
Speaker 1: what is the thing that just most impresses you about

1276
01:07:20,800 --> 01:07:23,400
Speaker 1: the craftsmanship? Because you know, when I watch I have

1277
01:07:23,440 --> 01:07:27,200
Speaker 1: some friends that do animation and illustration, the amount of

1278
01:07:27,240 --> 01:07:30,400
Speaker 1: work that goes into it, it's mind blowing for some

1279
01:07:30,560 --> 01:07:33,520
Speaker 1: an image that blows by you in a blink of

1280
01:07:33,560 --> 01:07:37,520
Speaker 1: an eye, and I'm just always just dumbfounded by that,

1281
01:07:37,760 --> 01:07:39,840
Speaker 1: the amount of work that goes into something that moves

1282
01:07:39,880 --> 01:07:43,120
Speaker 1: so quickly. What from that space is something that you

1283
01:07:43,280 --> 01:07:45,400
Speaker 1: just like to tell people, look at how much work

1284
01:07:45,440 --> 01:07:46,080
Speaker 1: goes into this.

1285
01:07:46,800 --> 01:07:51,320
Speaker 7: To me, it's the drawing when you're working in to date,

1286
01:07:51,600 --> 01:07:57,680
Speaker 7: just people's ability to draw. And there's different programs now

1287
01:07:57,720 --> 01:08:02,120
Speaker 7: that animation two D animators can that help with some

1288
01:08:02,200 --> 01:08:05,960
Speaker 7: of that in betweens and some things like that, But

1289
01:08:06,320 --> 01:08:09,720
Speaker 7: I feel like the craftsmanship that's coming out of Tokyo

1290
01:08:10,520 --> 01:08:14,480
Speaker 7: is still pretty heavily reliant on people who can draw,

1291
01:08:15,120 --> 01:08:18,200
Speaker 7: and it blows me away. I've been around it for

1292
01:08:18,240 --> 01:08:23,880
Speaker 7: decades and just people who can draw like volume and anatomy.

1293
01:08:24,560 --> 01:08:28,439
Speaker 7: It just never ceases to amaze me. And not on

1294
01:08:28,479 --> 01:08:30,880
Speaker 7: this project, but about four years ago I was able

1295
01:08:30,920 --> 01:08:33,800
Speaker 7: to be in Tokyo and visit some of a couple

1296
01:08:33,880 --> 01:08:37,200
Speaker 7: of studios and just saying that a lot of the

1297
01:08:37,240 --> 01:08:41,720
Speaker 7: way they draw is still on paper, and you know,

1298
01:08:41,800 --> 01:08:44,880
Speaker 7: it's very handcrafted still. You know, they're putting all their

1299
01:08:44,920 --> 01:08:48,559
Speaker 7: sheets in a folder every day for the animation director

1300
01:08:48,600 --> 01:08:52,000
Speaker 7: to review and a raise and draw on top of

1301
01:08:52,240 --> 01:08:56,639
Speaker 7: It's just these people aren't I mean, obviously they're artists,

1302
01:08:56,720 --> 01:09:01,480
Speaker 7: but they're really truly artisans. It should never be minimized

1303
01:09:01,560 --> 01:09:03,639
Speaker 7: how much work it is. And you're right, people don't

1304
01:09:03,720 --> 01:09:09,559
Speaker 7: understand that, but it takes to create one of these totally.

1305
01:09:09,760 --> 01:09:12,120
Speaker 5: Uh. Some of the studio, I think it's a general

1306
01:09:12,200 --> 01:09:16,320
Speaker 5: studio and the studio Cororido. They post some side by

1307
01:09:16,400 --> 01:09:20,640
Speaker 5: side comparison movie on Twitter so you can see the

1308
01:09:20,720 --> 01:09:24,960
Speaker 5: pencil drawing animation and the final animation and it's just

1309
01:09:25,000 --> 01:09:28,320
Speaker 5: a you know, mind blowing like, oh my god, like

1310
01:09:29,600 --> 01:09:33,080
Speaker 5: how can you make that? Lots like the furughly ear

1311
01:09:33,240 --> 01:09:40,000
Speaker 5: and all the hares moves so beautifully even in the

1312
01:09:40,200 --> 01:09:43,640
Speaker 5: pencil drawing and then the end like final frame is like,

1313
01:09:44,280 --> 01:09:47,719
Speaker 5: of course it's beautiful, but it's just so wonderful watch.

1314
01:09:47,800 --> 01:09:52,320
Speaker 5: And I think the passion of each creator has is

1315
01:09:52,360 --> 01:09:56,200
Speaker 5: like really huge, and I think there's really hugely still

1316
01:09:56,280 --> 01:09:59,479
Speaker 5: believe in that what can anime do in terms of

1317
01:09:59,520 --> 01:10:04,519
Speaker 5: the story an expression, And I think that's really stems

1318
01:10:04,600 --> 01:10:06,559
Speaker 5: out in Japanese anime.

1319
01:10:06,680 --> 01:10:12,920
Speaker 7: I guess I could watch the hair from the karen

1320
01:10:13,080 --> 01:10:18,600
Speaker 7: AM's bangs over their faces in The Twins forever. I

1321
01:10:18,720 --> 01:10:21,519
Speaker 7: just sometimes I can't even watch the story. I'm just

1322
01:10:21,560 --> 01:10:25,160
Speaker 7: staring at it because there's something just mesmerizing and beautiful

1323
01:10:26,040 --> 01:10:30,439
Speaker 7: about it. You know. What is also interesting is the

1324
01:10:30,520 --> 01:10:34,599
Speaker 7: studios had to adjust and do this during COVID, and

1325
01:10:34,680 --> 01:10:39,000
Speaker 7: so many of their artists were working at home. And

1326
01:10:40,360 --> 01:10:43,800
Speaker 7: one story I heard is they had to send runners

1327
01:10:44,360 --> 01:10:49,480
Speaker 7: by the animators homes every night to pick up their drawings,

1328
01:10:49,720 --> 01:10:52,960
Speaker 7: and you know, so that animator would leave it downstairs

1329
01:10:53,000 --> 01:10:55,519
Speaker 7: on their porch or in their laundry room, and the

1330
01:10:55,600 --> 01:11:00,240
Speaker 7: runner would come by every ninety grab their drawings, which

1331
01:11:00,240 --> 01:11:05,080
Speaker 7: I'm like, oh my god, it's really amazing that they

1332
01:11:05,120 --> 01:11:08,879
Speaker 7: were able to get this done over through COVID.

1333
01:11:09,479 --> 01:11:13,439
Speaker 1: We've seen that particularly the Ronin from the first episode

1334
01:11:13,439 --> 01:11:15,320
Speaker 1: of The Jewel. It's going to be the subject of

1335
01:11:15,479 --> 01:11:20,559
Speaker 1: novelization where Star Wars is no stranger to characters from

1336
01:11:20,600 --> 01:11:23,759
Speaker 1: their animation side crossing over into the live action side.

1337
01:11:23,800 --> 01:11:28,560
Speaker 1: We recently saw the much beloved Asokatano in The Mandalorian.

1338
01:11:29,000 --> 01:11:30,720
Speaker 1: I don't know if you could break news or if

1339
01:11:30,760 --> 01:11:32,960
Speaker 1: you would even know, but it seems like that would

1340
01:11:32,960 --> 01:11:36,960
Speaker 1: be a possibility, right if fans really gravitate towards a

1341
01:11:37,000 --> 01:11:39,400
Speaker 1: particular character, could it happen?

1342
01:11:39,439 --> 01:11:41,360
Speaker 2: Could we see one of these characters cross over?

1343
01:11:42,040 --> 01:11:45,800
Speaker 7: Never say never, is my answer to that, because I'm

1344
01:11:45,840 --> 01:11:48,160
Speaker 7: with you that some of these characters feel like they

1345
01:11:48,160 --> 01:11:52,960
Speaker 7: could fit right perfectly into the cannon, you know, and

1346
01:11:53,720 --> 01:11:55,000
Speaker 7: you want to see them again.

1347
01:11:55,080 --> 01:11:55,599
Speaker 5: You want to.

1348
01:11:55,560 --> 01:11:58,759
Speaker 7: See what their journey has led to and who they

1349
01:11:59,479 --> 01:12:03,880
Speaker 7: aligned with, and you know, so I absolutely hope so.

1350
01:12:04,120 --> 01:12:08,599
Speaker 7: I mean, I'm sure when George and Dave Filoni made

1351
01:12:08,640 --> 01:12:11,880
Speaker 7: up a Soka ten years ago, they had no idea, right,

1352
01:12:12,080 --> 01:12:15,559
Speaker 7: so things take on a life of their own though.

1353
01:12:15,640 --> 01:12:18,320
Speaker 1: If any of these characters could cross over, who would

1354
01:12:18,360 --> 01:12:19,200
Speaker 1: you like to see to it?

1355
01:12:19,400 --> 01:12:22,479
Speaker 5: I love to see like a touching rhopsesses band a

1356
01:12:22,560 --> 01:12:26,080
Speaker 5: style waiver just like to have a concert in different

1357
01:12:26,800 --> 01:12:31,520
Speaker 5: bar in different planets, like they can easily be in background,

1358
01:12:31,760 --> 01:12:35,559
Speaker 5: and you know, personally, it doesn't have to be like

1359
01:12:35,720 --> 01:12:38,519
Speaker 5: they doesn't have to be like a very successful band

1360
01:12:38,640 --> 01:12:41,880
Speaker 5: in the galaxy. But even though they still like doing

1361
01:12:41,960 --> 01:12:46,000
Speaker 5: the rocks, you know after five ten years.

1362
01:12:46,880 --> 01:12:49,800
Speaker 7: That's so funny. I'd love to see them at Galaxy's Edge.

1363
01:12:50,880 --> 01:12:54,960
Speaker 1: Yes, I had. I had a pitch to one of

1364
01:12:55,000 --> 01:12:58,400
Speaker 1: our other guests, Alex, who has a very popular YouTube

1365
01:12:59,240 --> 01:13:02,200
Speaker 1: channel where he it basically talks about Star Wars, star

1366
01:13:02,200 --> 01:13:06,200
Speaker 1: Wars Explained, stars called star Wars Explains and it's you know,

1367
01:13:06,600 --> 01:13:10,719
Speaker 1: of course the Max Rebo band later was at Jaba's

1368
01:13:10,760 --> 01:13:14,840
Speaker 1: palace playing for the assembled guests there day in day out.

1369
01:13:15,520 --> 01:13:17,559
Speaker 1: My pitch to him was what if Star Waver was

1370
01:13:18,000 --> 01:13:20,639
Speaker 1: Jaba's entry into the music business. That's how he got

1371
01:13:20,640 --> 01:13:24,160
Speaker 1: the bug and how he started loving music. That's my pitch. Anyway,

1372
01:13:25,840 --> 01:13:27,599
Speaker 1: I love it. Are we going to see a Star

1373
01:13:27,640 --> 01:13:29,840
Speaker 1: Wars vision season two at some point?

1374
01:13:30,800 --> 01:13:33,640
Speaker 7: You know, I don't think we've seen the last of

1375
01:13:33,680 --> 01:13:38,240
Speaker 7: Star Wars visions. I think it's a great way to

1376
01:13:38,280 --> 01:13:43,280
Speaker 7: see different expressions of Star Wars, and so my hope

1377
01:13:43,320 --> 01:13:45,559
Speaker 7: is that this is definitely not the last.

1378
01:13:46,240 --> 01:13:48,559
Speaker 2: Jackie Cana Goo, thank you for joining us.

1379
01:13:48,680 --> 01:13:53,280
Speaker 7: Thank you, Jason, I love your passion. Thank you so much, A.

1380
01:13:53,200 --> 01:14:04,320
Speaker 1: Big fan of it. Up next, the Endgame, Rosie. We

1381
01:14:04,400 --> 01:14:06,599
Speaker 1: are in the end game now, and this leak we

1382
01:14:06,680 --> 01:14:11,639
Speaker 1: are playing deadly games. The question is this which murder

1383
01:14:11,640 --> 01:14:12,519
Speaker 1: game set up?

1384
01:14:13,040 --> 01:14:14,400
Speaker 2: Right? So, which murder game set up?

1385
01:14:14,439 --> 01:14:14,560
Speaker 5: You have?

1386
01:14:14,640 --> 01:14:19,040
Speaker 1: Squid game, death Race, the Purge, old School, the most

1387
01:14:19,160 --> 01:14:22,200
Speaker 1: dangerous game? You want to get divergent on us, you

1388
01:14:22,200 --> 01:14:27,679
Speaker 1: could do that, Lord of the Flies. Which of these

1389
01:14:28,120 --> 01:14:32,120
Speaker 1: would you excel at? Would you pick to be placed in?

1390
01:14:32,320 --> 01:14:33,160
Speaker 2: And why?

1391
01:14:34,080 --> 01:14:34,519
Speaker 5: Hmmm?

1392
01:14:35,000 --> 01:14:39,000
Speaker 3: Well, squid games off, Bowerols off. The punch seems vaguely

1393
01:14:39,400 --> 01:14:42,080
Speaker 3: appealing to me because I could just potentially look myself

1394
01:14:42,080 --> 01:14:42,599
Speaker 3: at my house.

1395
01:14:42,840 --> 01:14:45,120
Speaker 2: Or you don't have to do anything. You could just like.

1396
01:14:45,200 --> 01:14:47,559
Speaker 3: Also the punch, I could do like I could like

1397
01:14:47,640 --> 01:14:51,960
Speaker 3: cancel student loans or something. I mean, everything's illegal, everything's legal.

1398
01:14:52,000 --> 01:14:53,880
Speaker 3: I could do some cool like venom hacking.

1399
01:14:54,080 --> 01:14:56,679
Speaker 1: You know, I would pull the I would pull those

1400
01:14:57,200 --> 01:14:59,360
Speaker 1: do not remove tags off my mattresses.

1401
01:14:59,360 --> 01:15:01,720
Speaker 2: I would do that. Fine.

1402
01:15:03,120 --> 01:15:06,439
Speaker 3: I think I would actually pick Running Man, though, just

1403
01:15:06,479 --> 01:15:08,879
Speaker 3: because I love that movie and I love the esthetic,

1404
01:15:08,960 --> 01:15:11,320
Speaker 3: and I think that it's so kind of like Bootleg

1405
01:15:11,400 --> 01:15:13,960
Speaker 3: that I would probably be okay. It's like just electrocute

1406
01:15:14,000 --> 01:15:17,519
Speaker 3: some guys, like go in a cool weird car through

1407
01:15:17,520 --> 01:15:20,639
Speaker 3: a tunnel where I jumpsuit, like make friends with Arnold Walschnigger.

1408
01:15:20,680 --> 01:15:23,599
Speaker 3: I'd probably be fine in In Running Man, I think.

1409
01:15:23,520 --> 01:15:26,879
Speaker 1: There's uh, there's a line in that movie and delivered

1410
01:15:26,920 --> 01:15:30,880
Speaker 1: by the great Arnold Schwarzenegger with a line reading that

1411
01:15:31,040 --> 01:15:34,439
Speaker 1: is just unreal, and I'm gonna quote it for you now.

1412
01:15:35,080 --> 01:15:37,200
Speaker 2: I hope you'll leave enough room from my fist because

1413
01:15:37,200 --> 01:15:40,160
Speaker 2: I have the rabbit and break us up. Fine.

1414
01:15:40,680 --> 01:15:43,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's iconic. And he's like when he stabs the

1415
01:15:43,080 --> 01:15:46,040
Speaker 3: guy when he's citing the contract. I love that error

1416
01:15:46,040 --> 01:15:49,200
Speaker 3: of Arnie. Like Running Man, total recall.

1417
01:15:50,400 --> 01:15:55,360
Speaker 1: Heals your sob zirl now just cleans zeral zero.

1418
01:15:55,880 --> 01:15:58,519
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's the good stuff. I think I could survive

1419
01:15:58,640 --> 01:16:02,880
Speaker 3: in eighties Game show era, where it's a little bit

1420
01:16:03,320 --> 01:16:04,080
Speaker 3: more jankie.

1421
01:16:04,240 --> 01:16:08,080
Speaker 2: What about you, I'm gonna go with Man.

1422
01:16:08,200 --> 01:16:10,479
Speaker 1: It's like a lot of killing, and I'm not sure

1423
01:16:10,520 --> 01:16:14,040
Speaker 1: how well I would do with killing, but I think Peter,

1424
01:16:15,080 --> 01:16:16,439
Speaker 1: I'm gonna steal one from Peta.

1425
01:16:16,560 --> 01:16:18,000
Speaker 2: He has shown us the way.

1426
01:16:18,280 --> 01:16:20,559
Speaker 1: I think if I went Hunger Games and I painted

1427
01:16:20,600 --> 01:16:25,400
Speaker 1: myself like a rock and just lay there honestly like

1428
01:16:26,800 --> 01:16:30,160
Speaker 1: he did very very well by doing it, and I

1429
01:16:30,200 --> 01:16:32,599
Speaker 1: think I would. I think I would do that as well.

1430
01:16:32,640 --> 01:16:34,519
Speaker 1: I would just paint myself like a rock and lay down.

1431
01:16:34,600 --> 01:16:37,840
Speaker 3: And when you said I just make some nice bread,

1432
01:16:37,960 --> 01:16:40,040
Speaker 3: doesn't delicious bread smell like bread?

1433
01:16:41,000 --> 01:16:42,720
Speaker 1: That's it for the endgame. Let us know whether you

1434
01:16:42,760 --> 01:16:45,599
Speaker 1: agree or can disagree. More sure your answers at hashtag

1435
01:16:45,720 --> 01:16:52,000
Speaker 1: xrvey endgame. Big thanks to Jackie Lopez, to Kannako Shiasaki uh,

1436
01:16:52,160 --> 01:16:54,240
Speaker 1: and of course Rosie Knight for joining us on another

1437
01:16:54,280 --> 01:16:57,519
Speaker 1: episode of X ray Vision. Rosie, where can people find

1438
01:16:57,560 --> 01:16:58,160
Speaker 1: your stuff?

1439
01:16:58,240 --> 01:16:58,680
Speaker 2: Plug it?

1440
01:16:58,880 --> 01:16:58,960
Speaker 5: Uh?

1441
01:16:59,040 --> 01:17:03,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, you can find me nerdist Ign a den of geek,

1442
01:17:04,040 --> 01:17:05,960
Speaker 3: all kinds of different cool places. When we write about

1443
01:17:05,960 --> 01:17:08,880
Speaker 3: comics what to watch, there's a bunch of different stuff

1444
01:17:08,880 --> 01:17:12,240
Speaker 3: out there. And the I'm on Instagram at Rosie Marx,

1445
01:17:12,240 --> 01:17:15,160
Speaker 3: where I sometimes review movies and always shout out this podcast.

1446
01:17:15,240 --> 01:17:16,720
Speaker 5: Oh thank you.

1447
01:17:18,760 --> 01:17:20,920
Speaker 1: Join us each week on Wednesday for your weekly dose

1448
01:17:20,960 --> 01:17:23,240
Speaker 1: of the deepest dives in Hana Stakes. Next week we'll

1449
01:17:23,280 --> 01:17:25,439
Speaker 1: be moving across the comic style to talk about the

1450
01:17:25,520 --> 01:17:28,160
Speaker 1: dc FanDome and all the announcements coming out of the

1451
01:17:28,160 --> 01:17:31,519
Speaker 1: Beagle dc FanDome. If you want to learn more about

1452
01:17:31,520 --> 01:17:33,880
Speaker 1: some of the shows, movies, comics, pop culture, the wee

1453
01:17:33,880 --> 01:17:35,840
Speaker 1: explore each episode, check out our listeners guide to all

1454
01:17:35,840 --> 01:17:38,000
Speaker 1: things x ray Vision in the show notes or.

1455
01:17:37,920 --> 01:17:38,799
Speaker 2: On your website.

1456
01:17:38,840 --> 01:17:41,240
Speaker 1: There is six rounds in the Squid Game, but only

1457
01:17:41,280 --> 01:17:44,160
Speaker 1: five stars, so if you like this show, give us

1458
01:17:44,200 --> 01:17:49,479
Speaker 1: the five star or else goodbye. Thanks very Vision. Is

1459
01:17:49,520 --> 01:17:51,320
Speaker 1: it for good media production. The show is produced by

1460
01:17:51,400 --> 01:17:54,200
Speaker 1: Chris Lord and Salt Rubin. It's EP by me, Jason

1461
01:17:54,320 --> 01:17:58,320
Speaker 1: Nceepsione and Sandy Gerard. Caroline Restin and Carolyon Gillespie are

1462
01:17:58,360 --> 01:18:01,120
Speaker 1: our consulting producers, and our editing and sound design is

1463
01:18:01,120 --> 01:18:04,800
Speaker 1: by Sarah Gibalaska, SGL and the folks. At chapter four,

1464
01:18:04,880 --> 01:18:07,120
Speaker 1: thank you Brian Vasquez for our theme music.

1465
01:18:07,160 --> 01:18:09,400
Speaker 2: Goodbye,