Speaker 1: Bbcsdis Hey, I'm Maggie. Just a quick heads up before
Speaker 1: we start. The series does contain some descriptions of violence
Speaker 1: and deals with adult themes. Close your eyes, hear that
Speaker 1: sleigh bells tingling in the distance. You look outside at
Speaker 1: the frosted street corners. A snow lightly falls on your
Speaker 1: mom's garden. Gnome inside, you're warm, happy. Maybe there's a
Speaker 1: fire lit in the corner. You're surrounded by people you love,
Speaker 1: clinking glasses and good cheer. Oh, don't look at Martha.
Speaker 1: Maybe had a bit too much to drink. But you
Speaker 1: know what, It's Christmas. It's the festive season, and everyone
Speaker 1: is entitled to a good tiding here and there. Okay,
Speaker 1: I admit this is like a quintessential Hallmark Christmas. No
Speaker 1: one's Christmas is like this. My Christmas isn't like this,
Speaker 1: But it's kind of what I think about when I
Speaker 1: close my eyes and dream of the holiday. I think
Speaker 1: of warmth, friends and family, and a moment in time
Speaker 1: where nothing really matters but the present, this time of
Speaker 1: celebration and togetherness. I'm not a Christmas proselytizer by any means,
Speaker 1: but I have to admit this idea of Christmas. It's nice,
Speaker 1: but the holidays can also bring up a lot of
Speaker 1: mixed emotions. They can feel lonely, isolating, especially if the
Speaker 1: worst thing imaginable happens to you just days before the holiday.
Speaker 2: Anthony and I are sitting on the couch and everyone's
Speaker 2: like watching TV and the Christmas trees in the corner,
Speaker 2: and like, I'm checking my Facebook.
Speaker 1: This is Liz melgar Rose. She's celebrating the holidays with
Speaker 1: her husband and his family in the UK.
Speaker 2: And there's like these messages about how people love me,
Speaker 2: and I'm like, they're here for me.
Speaker 1: A few days ago, Liz experienced a tragedy, a miscarriage.
Speaker 3: It was really difficult.
Speaker 2: We were hopeful that we were going to have a
Speaker 2: baby and it just didn't work out.
Speaker 1: People back home in Texas must have heard about it.
Speaker 2: I'm thinking, oh, they know I've had a miscarriage, so
Speaker 2: they are sending their thoughts and love to me to
Speaker 2: make sure they know that I'm not alone.
Speaker 3: You know that they're thinking of me.
Speaker 1: But one message on her husband, Anthony's Facebook, catches her eye.
Speaker 2: It was like, call me, there's an emergency.
Speaker 1: Anthony gets up from the oversized red couch, and goes
Speaker 1: into the kitchen.
Speaker 2: He makes a call I could hear before he closed
Speaker 2: the door, him saying something about it's about my family
Speaker 2: or my mom or my dad.
Speaker 1: Time stretches what was likely a few seconds starts to
Speaker 1: feel like hours.
Speaker 2: And then he comes back and he's like he's shaking,
Speaker 2: and he just looks like he's seen a ghost and
Speaker 2: he's just in shock.
Speaker 3: My first thought is my mom has died.
Speaker 1: Anthony looks at her, unsure of what to say.
Speaker 3: And so I'm like, what happened?
Speaker 2: And he's just he can't even talk, and I get
Speaker 2: so frustrated because he's taking too long and it feels
Speaker 2: like it's been an eternity, and I'm like, just tell
Speaker 2: me what the fuck happened.
Speaker 1: He can barely get the words out. Something horrible has happened.
Speaker 1: Their friend in Texas saw Liz's parents' house in the news,
Speaker 1: their brick bungalow swaddled and yellow police tape, blue and
Speaker 1: red lights flickering in the cold night air.
Speaker 2: And he said, your dad, your dad's been killed. And
Speaker 2: that is not what I expected him to say. So
Speaker 2: I said what And he said, your.
Speaker 3: Dad's been killed? And I thought what happened.
Speaker 1: You know that feeling when the pit of your stomach drops.
Speaker 1: You maybe hear a slight buzz in your ear, your
Speaker 1: heart begins thumping against your chest. You can't focus on
Speaker 1: what people are saying. It's like you can't hear at all.
Speaker 1: That's how I imagine Liz felt in this moment she
Speaker 1: heard the news, the moment her entire life imploded. Her dad,
Speaker 1: miles away from where she is now, has been murdered.
Speaker 1: She snaps out of the haze. There will be time
Speaker 1: to grieve, but right now she needs answers.
Speaker 2: I'm calling all these people. I'm trying to get a
Speaker 2: hold of my cousin. It's like five or six in
Speaker 2: the morning back in Houston.
Speaker 1: She needs to talk to her mom.
Speaker 3: I'm like, where's my mom?
Speaker 2: Nobody knows where my mom is, so I'm calling all
Speaker 2: the hospitals. She's nowhere. I'm calling the police. She's nowhere.
Speaker 2: I had no idea what's happened to her?
Speaker 1: Sandy, Liz's mom has seemingly vanished without a trace. Where
Speaker 1: is she? What happened that cold night in December? And
Speaker 1: who killed Liz's dad. I'm Maggie Robinson Katz and from
Speaker 1: BBC Studios and iHeart Podcasts. This is hands Tied, episode one,
Speaker 1: the call.
Speaker 3: I Don't.
Speaker 1: I've come to England to meet Liz at her home
Speaker 1: in Southwest London. It's a cold and dreary day, which
Speaker 1: is exactly what I think of when I hear the
Speaker 1: words of January and England.
Speaker 4: She brings in rocks and shoes.
Speaker 1: Am, she brings in rocks. Really, I don't know why
Speaker 1: that's so funny. What type of dog is she?
Speaker 3: Shallow?
Speaker 2: Is sweetening? They call them a re Mexican hair Liz.
Speaker 1: Her name is Nola. Liz has Mine roots, so this
Speaker 1: is a KETCHKEI word, which means cute.
Speaker 2: Very yeah, strange animals.
Speaker 1: I like her. I meant to her. She feels mighty
Speaker 1: for her size. You can say the same thing about Liz.
Speaker 1: She's tiny, with long hair dyed a deep purple, these
Speaker 1: big saucer eyes and although she may be forty, she
Speaker 1: looks like she's about twenty. But make no mistake, Liz
Speaker 1: is fierce. We sit on her couch, Liz wrapping herself
Speaker 1: in sweats and countless blankets because again it's January in England,
Speaker 1: and we began chatting when you think about your dad,
Speaker 1: what do you remember.
Speaker 2: So he has this type of sense of humor, and
Speaker 2: everybody calls them Jim jokes because they're just so bad
Speaker 2: that they make you just, you know, grown and say,
Speaker 2: oh my god.
Speaker 1: We all know those jokes. Maybe you've told a few yourself.
Speaker 1: I know I have their dad jokes, and these grown
Speaker 1: worthy Jim jokes were told to her countless times by
Speaker 1: her dad. Jim.
Speaker 2: My dad was always pulling pranks and playing around. We
Speaker 2: always say that he was just another kid, which is
Speaker 2: why I had so much fun in my childhood, because
Speaker 2: I had someone else to play with.
Speaker 1: Liz grew up in Houston, the only child to parents
Speaker 1: Jim also known as Hi may Or Jamie and Sandy Malgar.
Speaker 1: When Liz thinks back to her childhood now, she can
Speaker 1: easily recall the good times.
Speaker 3: We just had these adventures. There was a creek in
Speaker 3: the backyard.
Speaker 2: Sometimes it would flood if it rained a lot, and
Speaker 2: it would become this huge river, and there were alligators
Speaker 2: in there.
Speaker 3: We had this little boat and we would.
Speaker 2: Paddle out there and just ride down the river for
Speaker 2: a little while. You're not afraid of alligators, no, you know,
Speaker 2: they can't see Zach.
Speaker 1: Meaning if one is chasing you, run in a zigzag
Speaker 1: hot tip. You're welcome. Saved your life despite the alligators,
Speaker 1: which I think are way scarier than Liz is letting on.
Speaker 1: You can get a sense of what her childhood was like,
Speaker 1: playful fun with ample timeout in the warm Texas sun,
Speaker 1: and her two parents, Jim and Sandy, doting on her,
Speaker 1: wanting to give Liz everything they didn't have growing up.
Speaker 2: I was an only child, so I probably was pretty spoiled.
Speaker 2: I didn't get everything I wanted, obviously, but it's not
Speaker 2: like I was lacking in anything. I'm grateful and I
Speaker 2: feel lucky that I had the parents that I do.
Speaker 2: Were you close, Yeah, we were very close. We all
Speaker 2: had a really good and close relationship. I enjoyed spending
Speaker 2: time with my parents.
Speaker 4: I miss it.
Speaker 1: I'd bayea. Jim and Sandy both had difficult childhoods. Jim
Speaker 1: grew up in Guatemala, coming to America when he was
Speaker 1: just four years old. His mother worked as a house cleaner,
Speaker 1: saving every penny to give her children a better life.
Speaker 2: He would tell me stories as well as when he
Speaker 2: was a kid, to try and show me how good
Speaker 2: I had it and I think at first I didn't
Speaker 2: believe him because they just sounded just so far from
Speaker 2: what I knew.
Speaker 1: Like buying a glass of goat milk from a villager
Speaker 1: for five cents only when they could afford it, or
Speaker 1: flying to the States at a young age by yourself
Speaker 1: and sharing a cramped, two bedroom, one bath roomhouse with
Speaker 1: your parents and siblings.
Speaker 2: But yeah, it's kind of like, you know, you have
Speaker 2: these nice stories, but they're kind of mixed in with
Speaker 2: a lot of trauma.
Speaker 1: I think Sandy didn't have it any easier. She was
Speaker 1: abandoned by her parents and dumped with her grandmother in Laredo,
Speaker 1: a small town on the border with Mexico.
Speaker 2: She grew up incredibly poor. Sometimes they didn't have food,
Speaker 2: Sometimes they didn't have electricity or running water.
Speaker 3: They struggled a lot.
Speaker 1: Sandy also spent time in and out of the foster
Speaker 1: care system, a time Liz says her mom doesn't like
Speaker 1: to remember.
Speaker 2: It was difficult to be in these foster homes. I mean,
Speaker 2: you're thrown into these new environments that I mean, you're
Speaker 2: just a kid, You're scared, you don't know what's going on.
Speaker 2: And so I think she wanted me to have everything
Speaker 2: that she never had, and so she was determined to
Speaker 2: be just the best mom that she could be.
Speaker 3: It was difficult for.
Speaker 1: Her, but eventually Jim and said Andy find each other
Speaker 1: Fate or the alphabet bringing them together in a high
Speaker 1: school class in Houston at age seventeen.
Speaker 2: So it was Sandra McCullough and then Jim and Melgar.
Speaker 2: So he sat behind her and he would pull her
Speaker 2: hair because she had really long blonde hair, and he
Speaker 2: used to ask her out a lot, and she kept saying.
Speaker 1: No until Jim comes up with a brilliant idea.
Speaker 2: He finally asks her to go to this huge mall
Speaker 2: in downtown Houston which is called the Gallery of and
Speaker 2: there's a big ice skating rink in there. So he says,
Speaker 2: some of my friends and I are going to be there.
Speaker 3: Would you like to join us.
Speaker 1: You know, a group thing. It will be totally relaxed.
Speaker 1: Sandy agrees, and.
Speaker 2: When she gets there, it's my dad and one other friend,
Speaker 2: and the friend shortly leaves and they just ended up
Speaker 2: spending that evening together and I guess the rest was history.
Speaker 2: They were inseparable after that.
Speaker 1: They married and had Liz a few years later. Jim
Speaker 1: loved cars and music, his favorite bands being ACDC, Black
Speaker 1: Sabbath back when Ozzie was still in the band, To
Speaker 1: Be Clear, and Pink Floyd, a band Liz loves as well.
Speaker 1: Jim worked as a computer programmer for the Houston Independent
Speaker 1: Schools District, while Sandy was first a nurse then later
Speaker 1: set up a medical billing company. From Liz's perspective, her
Speaker 1: parents always seemed to have a loving and respectful relationship.
Speaker 2: And I know people probably don't believe me when I
Speaker 2: say this, but I never, ever, once in my entire life,
Speaker 2: ever saw them fight or yell at each other or
Speaker 2: raise their voices at each other.
Speaker 3: Never. I don't know how they did that, because I
Speaker 3: can't do that.
Speaker 1: Disagreements, according to Liz, were solved by talking things out calmly.
Speaker 1: It was never like yelling or fight even modeling that
Speaker 1: behavior for her. One time, Liz says she called her
Speaker 1: boyfriend stupid in front of her dad.
Speaker 2: And my dad took me to the side and he
Speaker 2: said that it is really disrespectful, and it might start
Speaker 2: a habit where you do that and you think you're
Speaker 2: just playing around, but then when you're angry, you're going
Speaker 2: to say it and you're going to mean it and you're.
Speaker 3: Not going to be able to take it back.
Speaker 2: So he always taught me how it was important to
Speaker 2: be very respectful in your relationships and be mindful about
Speaker 2: how you're talking to people.
Speaker 1: I mean, a lesson for all of us.
Speaker 2: I still struggle with it that they had somehow mastered
Speaker 2: this and were able to practice it together. And you know,
Speaker 2: I just I think that's a testament to their relationship
Speaker 2: and to the love and respect that they had for
Speaker 2: each other.
Speaker 1: Liz grabs her phone to show me a picture of
Speaker 1: her with her mom and dad.
Speaker 2: We were taking a bunch of pictures together. I don't
Speaker 2: know why this is the only one I have.
Speaker 1: This is the last time she saw her dad.
Speaker 2: It's at departures in the terminal there at the airport,
Speaker 2: and it's just me in between my mom and dad
Speaker 2: and they've both got their arms around me. I've got
Speaker 2: my arms around them, and uh yeah, I'm about to
Speaker 2: get on a plane to England.
Speaker 1: Liz was starting her own adventure, beginning a neuroscience course
Speaker 1: in Brighton with a focus on the brain chemistry of
Speaker 1: violent offenders. She'd long had an interest in true crime,
Speaker 1: something her parents thought was a little weird. The next
Speaker 1: step up from her passion for horror. Back then, true
Speaker 1: crime books were harder to come by than they are now,
Speaker 1: Even so, Liz's room was stacked with books on serial killers.
Speaker 2: Well, I remember this moment and then leaving and walking
Speaker 2: up towards the gate. I was sad to be leaving,
Speaker 2: but it wasn't as sad as usually was, because you know,
Speaker 2: I kept saying, we're coming back and we'll see them soon.
Speaker 2: We'll spend lots of time together. And yeah, I think
Speaker 2: I went into crisis mode.
Speaker 1: Right back in December twenty twelve, on the night that
Speaker 1: she hears that Jim has been murdered. There are two
Speaker 1: questions crashing around inside Lissa's head. What has happened to
Speaker 1: her dad, Jim And where is her mom Sandy.
Speaker 2: I was able to just it just feels like everything
Speaker 2: slows down, and I'm okay, what do I need to do?
Speaker 3: Step one? And then I just take it from there.
Speaker 1: Step one. Get from London to Houston as fast as
Speaker 1: she can.
Speaker 3: My husband started looking for the flights, but.
Speaker 1: It's just before Christmas. Everything is booked up with people
Speaker 1: traveling for the holidays. Finally, Anthony manages to book them
Speaker 1: onto a flight, but it's going to take a while.
Speaker 1: First we'll have to get to Paris, then on to Houston.
Speaker 2: I remember sitting there just thinking, oh my god, I
Speaker 2: have this long flight ahead of me.
Speaker 3: I don't know, it was just very surreal. I felt
Speaker 3: like I was.
Speaker 2: In a dream state and none of it was real,
Speaker 2: and I just had to get home.
Speaker 1: Liz and her husband Anthony had no idea what they
Speaker 1: would find back home. All they could do was literally
Speaker 1: sit and wait with an in flight snack or two.
Speaker 1: On the long journey, they prepare themselves for step two,
Speaker 1: find out what happened to Liz's parents.
Speaker 4: We're heading to my uncle Jim's house.
Speaker 1: Lizz's cousin Marissa was there the day Jim was found,
Speaker 1: just before Christmas, December twenty third, twenty twelve.
Speaker 5: And I remember I texted him actually before we left
Speaker 5: the house saying, Hey, we're running late. That was just
Speaker 5: a running joke honestly with us, because he would you
Speaker 5: say that we were always late to everything.
Speaker 1: Jim had invited Marissa and her family around to eat
Speaker 1: with him and Sandy. So Marissa, her mam, Maria, her dad, herman,
Speaker 1: her sister, Monica, her boyfriend Gerson, and their baby Melanie
Speaker 1: all squished together.
Speaker 5: It's kind of embarrassing to say we fit six of
Speaker 5: us in a five cedar car.
Speaker 1: Somehow, Marissa finds enough elbow to text her uncle.
Speaker 5: I will never forget telling my mom. I said, you know,
Speaker 5: Uncle Jim hasn't texted me. Back, said, oh, maybe he's busy.
Speaker 5: We're thinking maybe he's busy, he's grilling, he's doing something right.
Speaker 5: And then I text him again we're getting close, and
Speaker 5: again didn't hear from him.
Speaker 1: Jim and Sandy live in Laurel Creek on the northwest
Speaker 1: side of Houston Suburban and the way most American neighborhoods
Speaker 1: are think, tree lined streets, cookie cutter houses a lot
Speaker 1: of them, bungalows, big garages, and lush front lawns, and
Speaker 1: a bit fancier than where Marissa's family live.
Speaker 5: We were kind of sitting there in the driveway for
Speaker 5: a little while because the neighbors, like directly across from
Speaker 5: their house, they were out, and so we were just
Speaker 5: kind of sitting there, laughing, thinking, how are we going
Speaker 5: to get out of this car without them, you know,
Speaker 5: judging us.
Speaker 1: Eventually they get out of the car and knock on
Speaker 1: the door. No answer.
Speaker 4: So I'm thinking, okay, well let me call them.
Speaker 1: No answer.
Speaker 5: We tell my dad. He go check the backyard. They're
Speaker 5: probably outside. They're grilly, I think, thinking they're grillly.
Speaker 1: Herman makes his way to the backyard, peeks over the
Speaker 1: fence and calls back.
Speaker 5: Oh, there's nobody out there, he said. I'd tried calling
Speaker 5: for my brother. Nobody's saying anything. I don't think anybody's
Speaker 5: in the backyard, so this is.
Speaker 1: Strange, even stranger. The garage door is wide open, well
Speaker 1: one side is. It's a double garage. Herman decides to
Speaker 1: have a look inside.
Speaker 5: And I'm thinking, no, we don't break into people's homes,
Speaker 5: so you know, let's wait, I said. Then I started thinking,
Speaker 5: maybe they're taking a shower, you know, maybe, you know,
Speaker 5: we got to give them some.
Speaker 4: Space, you know, I'm sure they'll come out.
Speaker 5: But my dad was like, no, no, no, this is
Speaker 5: my brother's house, or we can make ourselves at home.
Speaker 1: Herman walks in, goes through the door in the garage
Speaker 1: that connects to the main house, and unlocks the front door,
Speaker 1: letting the rest of his family in.
Speaker 5: That's when I it just didn't feel right. As soon
Speaker 5: as my dad opened the door. I remember I put
Speaker 5: my arm up, you know, towards my mom's chest, and
Speaker 5: I said no. I said no, let's just wait right here.
Speaker 1: But herman ignores his daughter and turns back into the house.
Speaker 1: The rest of the family follow into the darkness. Every
Speaker 1: single shade in the house is drawn.
Speaker 5: My dad started calling out, Sandy, Jim, we're here, and
Speaker 5: that's when we started hearing what I would describe like
Speaker 5: mumbling noises. We all stopped and we were like, wait,
Speaker 5: what was that.
Speaker 1: It's a voice saying help help.
Speaker 2: My dad.
Speaker 4: He's sprang into action. He ran towards where the noise
Speaker 4: was coming.
Speaker 1: From, running towards the back of the house, the sound
Speaker 1: of the cries becoming louder and louder.
Speaker 4: I was terrified. I had no idea what was going on.
Speaker 5: It just kind of I don't remember hearing anything when
Speaker 5: I was in the bedroom, it was just kind of quiet.
Speaker 1: She goes through the bedroom and into the bathroom. Herman
Speaker 1: spots a brown satin chair pushed up under the handle
Speaker 1: of the bathroom closet, locking it shut from the outside.
Speaker 1: He moves the chair and inside finds Sandy She's dressed
Speaker 1: in a red nightie, black robe, and fluffy socks, lying
Speaker 1: on the floor, her feet in her hands, tied up.
Speaker 1: Herman and his wife cut her free and notice her
Speaker 1: soiled underwear as they do. It looks like she's been
Speaker 1: there for hours.
Speaker 5: I'm standing there, you know, all the commotion. I see Sandy.
Speaker 5: When I saw her, she was crying, she was hysterical.
Speaker 5: She was saying, where's Jim, Where's Jim. I was standing
Speaker 5: there frozen. I think she was crawling or almost like
Speaker 5: dragging herself, asking where's Jim, where's Jim, And then my
Speaker 5: mom trying to hold her back. No, no, no, like
Speaker 5: don't go over there, or don't just stay here. I
Speaker 5: start walking into the room a little bit more, and
Speaker 5: you know, I turn around because.
Speaker 4: The closet light was on, and I remember turning around
Speaker 4: it was to my right.
Speaker 1: Marissa goes back into Sandy in Jim's bedroom, where there's
Speaker 1: another closet, and.
Speaker 6: I looked down and I can see my uncle's legs,
Speaker 6: his ankles, and they were tied up with of gray.
Speaker 4: I want to say it was a telephone cable.
Speaker 1: Marissa can't take it any longer. She needs to get
Speaker 1: out of that house.
Speaker 5: I just decided I turned around to head back out,
Speaker 5: and I bumped into It was either my sister or Gerson.
Speaker 4: When I bumped into them, They're like, what's going on?
Speaker 4: I couldn't even.
Speaker 1: Talk, she rushes outside.
Speaker 4: The neighbors were out, so I was basically yelling at them.
Speaker 1: I was like, please calln on the one Frantically. She
Speaker 1: reaches into her pockets, her hands shaking as she calls
Speaker 1: for help, and.
Speaker 4: The operator answered and I couldn't.
Speaker 1: Talk, can barely get the words out. The worst possible
Speaker 1: thing has happened. Marissa stands outside as the sound of
Speaker 1: sirens grow into a crescendo. The quiet afternoon twisted into
Speaker 1: a cacophony of alarms and shouting, the neighborhood lit up
Speaker 1: by the blue and red lights of the police vehicles
Speaker 1: and EMTs. The house soon swaddled in yellow police.
Speaker 5: Tape, you know, people going in and out. And so
Speaker 5: at one point we did get a shirt out of
Speaker 5: the house, and so we were all.
Speaker 4: Just standing in the driveway, just waiting to be told something.
Speaker 1: Honestly, one of the officers warns the family that they'll
Speaker 1: need to be separated.
Speaker 5: And so we went to different police cars, and we
Speaker 5: sat there for what felt like forever and are interviewed
Speaker 5: one by one.
Speaker 7: Today is December the twenty third, twenty twelve, and this
Speaker 7: is a represent Aeros County case eight C twelve. That's
Speaker 7: one seven six two six'. Nine we're At Kelsey Meadows
Speaker 7: court And i'm talking with a. Witness Now i'm going
Speaker 7: to ask you to state your name for the.
Speaker 8: Recording Marston algaarmu, Okay and today you came to this
Speaker 8: address for lunch or dinner with who lives here that you?
Speaker 8: Know my uncle IS i, Mean i'm, sorry my aunt
Speaker 8: and just them and what's their?
Speaker 9: Names Sandy malgar And Jim malgar, okay and.
Speaker 1: Are supposed to come Here Marissa. Philsen Sergeant James dussay
Speaker 1: Of Harris County Sheriff's office on everything you just. Heard
Speaker 1: they were going over To jim And sandy's house for.
Speaker 1: Dinner there was no, answer so they made their way.
Speaker 1: Inside that's when they Found. Sandy an ornate brown satin
Speaker 1: chair with curling white vines was wedged under a door,
Speaker 1: handle essentially ceiling the bathroom closet, shut With sandy inside
Speaker 1: on the, floor hands and feet tied up. Trapped she's
Speaker 1: laying on the.
Speaker 7: Bat you could see.
Speaker 4: HER i could see.
Speaker 9: HER i believe she was tied, up, okay and THEN
Speaker 9: i got scared AND i ran out AND i told my.
Speaker 3: DAD i was, like we don't know who's in, Here.
Speaker 1: Marissa tells the. Officer she left in a. PANIC i was,
Speaker 1: like let's let's get.
Speaker 9: OUT i was, Like i'm CALLING i on one And
Speaker 9: i'm running out and my boyfriend and my sister are
Speaker 9: STILL i think they were in the living room AND
Speaker 9: i ran, out, crying. SCREAMING i was, like oh my,
Speaker 9: gosh and they were, like what's, happening what's? Happening and
Speaker 9: they were out after, me and that's WHEN i.
Speaker 3: Called nine one.
Speaker 7: One now you said her hands were bound when you saw.
Speaker 1: HER i believe, so, yeah, yeah they.
Speaker 9: WERE i believe that she was like this when she.
Speaker 8: Was saying help based on what you?
Speaker 7: Know what's your?
Speaker 2: Feelings?
Speaker 1: Shock someone Killed? Jim what do you?
Speaker 4: Think any?
Speaker 7: IDEAS i don't.
Speaker 4: Know what's WHAT i was thinking in the, CAR i.
Speaker 1: Was, like will could have done? That thirteen years, later
Speaker 1: sitting In lizz's living room In, london she's still trying
Speaker 1: to answer that. Question what happened that night who killed her?
Speaker 2: DAD i don't even know when this shock actually started
Speaker 2: to wear. OFF i feel like it was years.
Speaker 1: Shocking that her dad was murdered and that it happened
Speaker 1: just as she started pursuing her own passion for true
Speaker 1: crime as a career studying violent criminal.
Speaker 2: Behavior but that was very short, lived because then my
Speaker 2: own dad was murdered AND i had to go, home.
Speaker 1: Her life morphing into one of the murder stories that
Speaker 1: obsessed her as a. Teenager how does it feel to
Speaker 1: have read so many true crime stories and then to
Speaker 1: have that happen in your own. Life it's.
Speaker 2: Insane it's just it was so. Strange she become part
Speaker 2: of this genre THAT i had been so interested.
Speaker 1: In back In december twenty, Twelve liz had a realization
Speaker 1: she was uniquely placed to find out who murdered her.
Speaker 1: Dad she was studying. Criminology she spent her teenage years
Speaker 1: devouring true, crime and who Knew jim And sandy better
Speaker 1: than their only? Child all that time reading about serial
Speaker 1: killers in murder could maybe be put to good.
Speaker 2: USE I, Uh i'm thankful, though that that was my,
Speaker 2: interest because it helped me protect.
Speaker 3: Myself and my. Family it kind of.
Speaker 2: Helped, me like put the pieces of the puzzle. Together,
Speaker 2: YEAH i, MEAN i think if it weren't for that
Speaker 2: strange interest or hobby or whatever you want to call,
Speaker 2: it things could have gone, very very.
Speaker 1: Differently it's a.
Speaker 2: Mystery she still doesn't have an answer. To too much
Speaker 2: for one. Person there's a lot of, GUILT i think pushing.
Speaker 2: ME i want to prove everyone wrong basically at this,
Speaker 2: point AND i JUST i want. Answers WHEN i first
Speaker 2: heard About liz's, STORY i was, intrigued and in a
Speaker 2: very small way.
Speaker 1: Relate liz AND i are both daughters who searched for
Speaker 1: answers and the mysteries that embroiled our late. Fathers, NOW
Speaker 1: i just want to preface this by SAYING i have
Speaker 1: no idea what it's like to lose a parent in
Speaker 1: the Way liz, has but this desire to understand what,
Speaker 1: Happened i've been There when my dad. DIED i found
Speaker 1: out he was caught up in A philippines based gold,
Speaker 1: scam causing him to lose the fortune he had spent
Speaker 1: his life, building leaving the rest of us with well.
Speaker 1: Nothing but this answer wasn't good enough for. ME i
Speaker 1: wanted to understand why this. Happened, then most of, all
Speaker 1: meet the man who took his. Money SO i got
Speaker 1: a plane to meet my dad's con, artist a ninety
Speaker 1: five year old White, american SO i could ask him
Speaker 1: to his face if he conned my. Dad if you're
Speaker 1: listening and your parent has been scammed of money and
Speaker 1: you have the opportunity to meet their con, ARTIST i
Speaker 1: think my first recommendation is don't do. IT i, MEAN
Speaker 1: i only say this BECAUSE i really didn't feel any
Speaker 1: sense of, closure AND i don't feel any nearer to
Speaker 1: understanding the mystery of why my dad fell for this ridiculous.
Speaker 1: Con but this isn't my. Story this is the story
Speaker 1: Of jim And Sandy melgar and their, Daughter Liz Rose,
Speaker 1: melgar a strange and beguiling case where a woman is
Speaker 1: found in a closet with her hands and feet, tied
Speaker 1: her husband dead a few feet away from. Her to this,
Speaker 1: Day liz says she can't be sure who killed her,
Speaker 1: dad but she's certain of one. Thing the wrong person
Speaker 1: is in prison for his. Murder you've been. Listening Hands
Speaker 1: tied a new eight part true crime series FROM Bbc
Speaker 1: studios And iHeart. Podcasts new episodes will be released, weekly
Speaker 1: so subscribe or follow on The iHeartRadio app or wherever
Speaker 1: you get your podcasts so you don't miss. Out if
Speaker 1: you like the, show please help us by spreading the
Speaker 1: word or giving us a five star. Review I'm Maggie
Speaker 1: Robinson katz and the producer Is Maggie. Latham sound design
Speaker 1: and mix is By Tom. Brignall our script consultant Is
Speaker 1: Emma weatherall production support is From Dan, Martini Elena boutang
Speaker 1: And Mabel Finnegan. Wright and our production executive Is Laura Jordan.
Speaker 1: Rawl the series was developed By Anya saunders At. iHeart
Speaker 1: the Managing Executive producer Is Christina, everett and FOR Bbc,
Speaker 1: studios The executive producer Is Joe kent