1 00:00:05,880 --> 00:00:13,720 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Greece, Another day full of bombshells 2 00:00:13,840 --> 00:00:17,880 Speaker 1: and the Alex Murnog double murdered trial. The jury has 3 00:00:18,000 --> 00:00:20,639 Speaker 1: just taken us lunch break and we are Life at 4 00:00:20,720 --> 00:00:23,840 Speaker 1: the Courthouse bringing you the very latest. Got an all 5 00:00:23,920 --> 00:00:26,720 Speaker 1: star panel of guests to break down what is happening 6 00:00:26,760 --> 00:00:30,320 Speaker 1: in the courtroom right now as Alex Murnod, flanked by 7 00:00:30,400 --> 00:00:34,240 Speaker 1: his fleet of lawyers, listens as the evidence pours from 8 00:00:34,240 --> 00:00:37,440 Speaker 1: the witness stand. A lot happening in court today. Today 9 00:00:37,680 --> 00:00:42,240 Speaker 1: for the first time, we see the family of Gloria 10 00:00:42,720 --> 00:00:47,120 Speaker 1: Sadderfield speaking out. And when I saw, I mean he 11 00:00:47,159 --> 00:00:49,120 Speaker 1: looked like a young boy to me on the stand 12 00:00:49,520 --> 00:00:55,960 Speaker 1: talking about how nearly four million dollars was stolen from 13 00:00:56,000 --> 00:01:01,280 Speaker 1: his family after Miss Saderfield falls to her death down 14 00:01:01,320 --> 00:01:05,040 Speaker 1: the Murdoch steps. You know, I'm surprised he didn't break 15 00:01:05,080 --> 00:01:09,000 Speaker 1: down crying about the death of his mother. And I 16 00:01:09,040 --> 00:01:11,280 Speaker 1: can tell you another thing. I love the way this 17 00:01:11,520 --> 00:01:15,919 Speaker 1: judge is handling the courtroom. He's moving it along, moving along, 18 00:01:16,280 --> 00:01:21,119 Speaker 1: never rude, never kurt. But the minute one witness finishes, 19 00:01:21,160 --> 00:01:24,520 Speaker 1: he says, call your next witness. He keeps it moving. 20 00:01:24,680 --> 00:01:27,199 Speaker 1: I mean it's he Grace, this is Crime Stories. Thanks 21 00:01:27,200 --> 00:01:29,720 Speaker 1: for being with us here at Fox Nation and Serious 22 00:01:29,840 --> 00:01:33,759 Speaker 1: X one eleven. First of all, straight out to the 23 00:01:33,840 --> 00:01:36,800 Speaker 1: front of the courthouse standing by Kelly Ski and senior 24 00:01:36,840 --> 00:01:40,800 Speaker 1: producer with me at Crime Stories, Kelly, thank you for 25 00:01:40,840 --> 00:01:44,240 Speaker 1: being with us. Kelly, we were on the cusp, the 26 00:01:44,520 --> 00:01:50,760 Speaker 1: cusp of hearing ballistics match up. Did you hear the 27 00:01:50,880 --> 00:01:55,640 Speaker 1: last questions being asked of agent Career? And I really 28 00:01:55,680 --> 00:01:59,440 Speaker 1: like this guy because there's a lot of male testosterone 29 00:02:00,320 --> 00:02:06,360 Speaker 1: prancing around the courtroom and this guy is very low key, 30 00:02:06,440 --> 00:02:10,799 Speaker 1: he's very mild mannered and he comes across It's very 31 00:02:10,880 --> 00:02:13,960 Speaker 1: believable to me. And when he said one of the 32 00:02:14,040 --> 00:02:17,639 Speaker 1: last items he was talking about was from the left 33 00:02:17,880 --> 00:02:22,960 Speaker 1: shoulder and the head of Paul Murdog, that really brought 34 00:02:23,000 --> 00:02:27,320 Speaker 1: it all home. What this is all about, Kelly? Who 35 00:02:27,400 --> 00:02:29,520 Speaker 1: is this guy? And what do you think he's going 36 00:02:29,560 --> 00:02:32,760 Speaker 1: to tell us? Nancy? This is a special agent Paul Greer. 37 00:02:32,840 --> 00:02:36,120 Speaker 1: And actually, in a pre trial motion, the defense tried 38 00:02:36,280 --> 00:02:38,839 Speaker 1: tooth and mail really tried to throw it out one 39 00:02:38,919 --> 00:02:42,400 Speaker 1: last Hail Mary to block his testimony from being allowed 40 00:02:42,400 --> 00:02:45,200 Speaker 1: in court. What we are expecting to hear based on 41 00:02:45,360 --> 00:02:48,160 Speaker 1: what we've heard from him before the trial started, is 42 00:02:48,200 --> 00:02:50,560 Speaker 1: he is going to say that the gun that Maggie 43 00:02:50,639 --> 00:02:54,440 Speaker 1: Murdoch was killed with is a gun from the Murdoch property. 44 00:02:54,520 --> 00:02:57,200 Speaker 1: So we are expecting him to say that the markings 45 00:02:57,240 --> 00:03:01,320 Speaker 1: on the three hundred blackout shell casings actually match markings 46 00:03:01,400 --> 00:03:04,239 Speaker 1: on other three hundred blackout shell casings that were already 47 00:03:04,320 --> 00:03:07,240 Speaker 1: on their Murdoch property. And what we heard from Pald 48 00:03:07,320 --> 00:03:10,120 Speaker 1: Murdoch's friend earlier this week was that the two of 49 00:03:10,160 --> 00:03:14,120 Speaker 1: them actually used a three hundred blackout months before the murders. 50 00:03:14,160 --> 00:03:16,120 Speaker 1: So they are going to try and match those shell 51 00:03:16,200 --> 00:03:19,840 Speaker 1: casings to the ones found near Maggie Murdoch's body. And 52 00:03:19,919 --> 00:03:22,160 Speaker 1: like I said, this is a witness that the defense 53 00:03:22,240 --> 00:03:24,480 Speaker 1: did not want to be allowed at trial. But here 54 00:03:24,520 --> 00:03:26,760 Speaker 1: we are. Hey, if I could get Christine in our 55 00:03:26,800 --> 00:03:31,440 Speaker 1: New York control room, can you show Greer video again. 56 00:03:32,080 --> 00:03:34,240 Speaker 1: This is the witness that I like so much. I mean, 57 00:03:34,240 --> 00:03:36,760 Speaker 1: I've liked a lot of the witnesses, but this guy 58 00:03:37,200 --> 00:03:41,400 Speaker 1: comes in. He's all business, but he's very laid back 59 00:03:41,440 --> 00:03:45,200 Speaker 1: and mild mannered, and I like the way he's speaking 60 00:03:45,560 --> 00:03:53,280 Speaker 1: to this jury, very conversational, and that's what jurors need 61 00:03:53,400 --> 00:03:57,000 Speaker 1: to hear, frankly, from every witness, but especially from a 62 00:03:57,080 --> 00:04:01,160 Speaker 1: witness that is dealing with scientific data. And that is why. 63 00:04:01,240 --> 00:04:03,160 Speaker 1: And let me throw this to you, Dell Carson, high 64 00:04:03,200 --> 00:04:06,000 Speaker 1: profile lawyer joining me out of Jacksonville. And this is 65 00:04:06,080 --> 00:04:08,880 Speaker 1: something that I like about Dell Carson. Not that he's 66 00:04:08,880 --> 00:04:11,160 Speaker 1: a defense attorney. Don't like that. I like that he's 67 00:04:11,160 --> 00:04:17,119 Speaker 1: a former agent with the FBI, Dell. That is why 68 00:04:17,360 --> 00:04:20,159 Speaker 1: I know they hated to see that old County Crown 69 00:04:20,320 --> 00:04:22,440 Speaker 1: VIC pull up to the front of the crime lab 70 00:04:22,600 --> 00:04:25,400 Speaker 1: or the morgue because I would be getting out deal 71 00:04:25,520 --> 00:04:29,159 Speaker 1: Carson to go through their report line by line to 72 00:04:29,279 --> 00:04:32,960 Speaker 1: try to encourage them to speak regular people talk and 73 00:04:33,040 --> 00:04:36,560 Speaker 1: not scientific talk. That's what I like about this witness, Greer. 74 00:04:36,880 --> 00:04:40,520 Speaker 1: He's making it easy for everybody to understand, even if 75 00:04:40,560 --> 00:04:43,320 Speaker 1: they don't have a ballistics background. I think he is 76 00:04:43,360 --> 00:04:47,080 Speaker 1: being very simple and it conveys well to the jury. 77 00:04:47,680 --> 00:04:51,320 Speaker 1: And what I heard him use the word decontaminate, and 78 00:04:51,360 --> 00:04:54,159 Speaker 1: then he immediately followed with the word touch, which is 79 00:04:54,200 --> 00:04:57,719 Speaker 1: what he's talking about. So he's removed removing all the 80 00:04:58,279 --> 00:05:02,800 Speaker 1: extremely complicated scientific terms and speaking directly to the jury 81 00:05:03,160 --> 00:05:06,359 Speaker 1: and in that way, it makes himself extremely credible. And 82 00:05:06,400 --> 00:05:09,120 Speaker 1: you know you said he's making it simple. He is 83 00:05:09,440 --> 00:05:12,720 Speaker 1: by no means a simpleton, because when I heard his 84 00:05:12,800 --> 00:05:18,000 Speaker 1: background and how he is already conducted thousands and thousands 85 00:05:18,720 --> 00:05:24,320 Speaker 1: ballistics comparisons, this guy is anything but a simpleton. Joining 86 00:05:24,360 --> 00:05:27,919 Speaker 1: me also, Cheryl McCollum, forensic expert, knows their way around 87 00:05:27,960 --> 00:05:30,840 Speaker 1: a shotgun, I can tell you that much. And director 88 00:05:30,839 --> 00:05:33,680 Speaker 1: of the Cold Case Research Institute, way in, Cheryl McCollum, 89 00:05:33,800 --> 00:05:36,640 Speaker 1: you know, what he's doing is a beautiful job in 90 00:05:36,839 --> 00:05:40,600 Speaker 1: explaining something that could be for somebody that's never handled 91 00:05:40,600 --> 00:05:45,120 Speaker 1: a firearm somewhat confusing. So he's going to explain very 92 00:05:45,160 --> 00:05:48,440 Speaker 1: clearly what this bird shot is. So when you have 93 00:05:48,560 --> 00:05:52,200 Speaker 1: a shotgun and it's filmed with you know, birdshot, a 94 00:05:52,279 --> 00:05:56,360 Speaker 1: butt shot. These little bitty pellets, and if you stand 95 00:05:56,440 --> 00:05:58,560 Speaker 1: two feet from a door and you have a handful 96 00:05:58,600 --> 00:06:01,040 Speaker 1: of let's say a hundred, and you throw them at 97 00:06:01,040 --> 00:06:03,240 Speaker 1: that door, it's gonna be a tight pattern. They're not 98 00:06:03,320 --> 00:06:06,120 Speaker 1: going to spread very far. But the reason people use 99 00:06:06,200 --> 00:06:09,240 Speaker 1: these for hunting birds is the further it goes, the 100 00:06:09,279 --> 00:06:12,720 Speaker 1: more they spread out. So you're almost guaranteed to hit 101 00:06:12,760 --> 00:06:15,680 Speaker 1: your target. You know, Cheryl McCollum, when you're striking a jury, 102 00:06:15,800 --> 00:06:19,200 Speaker 1: you should never ever judge a book by its cover. 103 00:06:20,080 --> 00:06:22,800 Speaker 1: But when you said, he's making it easy for people 104 00:06:22,839 --> 00:06:27,000 Speaker 1: that don't handle firearms to understand. There's one lady. I 105 00:06:27,160 --> 00:06:31,000 Speaker 1: love this lady. The judge keeps the courtroom so cold, 106 00:06:31,120 --> 00:06:34,599 Speaker 1: bat me up Kelly's skin so the jurars will stay awake. 107 00:06:34,680 --> 00:06:37,120 Speaker 1: I know that for a fact because I had an 108 00:06:37,120 --> 00:06:40,640 Speaker 1: insider tell me that. And they get up and they 109 00:06:40,680 --> 00:06:42,880 Speaker 1: get down, they stress their legs and keep them awake. 110 00:06:43,360 --> 00:06:47,400 Speaker 1: There's one jurar in there, Cheryl McCollum, that she brings 111 00:06:47,480 --> 00:06:50,479 Speaker 1: a blanket with her and she pulls it all the 112 00:06:50,560 --> 00:06:55,440 Speaker 1: way up, kind of like this up manager. And you 113 00:06:55,480 --> 00:06:58,320 Speaker 1: know she's all bundled up. And I see those eyes 114 00:06:58,440 --> 00:07:00,960 Speaker 1: looking over that blankets, hearing it. The winn is. She 115 00:07:01,200 --> 00:07:04,920 Speaker 1: never nods off. She never, I never. I've never seen 116 00:07:04,920 --> 00:07:07,839 Speaker 1: her blink. But I don't see her out on the 117 00:07:07,960 --> 00:07:12,520 Speaker 1: range coming guns loaded, you see what I mean. So 118 00:07:12,560 --> 00:07:15,160 Speaker 1: I like the way this guy is talking. So back 119 00:07:15,160 --> 00:07:17,480 Speaker 1: to U. Kles can tell me one more time how 120 00:07:17,560 --> 00:07:19,920 Speaker 1: you think he's gonna zip it up? How is he 121 00:07:19,960 --> 00:07:23,000 Speaker 1: gonna you know button it up at the end for me. Sure. 122 00:07:23,440 --> 00:07:26,360 Speaker 1: So what we are expecting from this witness after the 123 00:07:26,400 --> 00:07:29,040 Speaker 1: break is essentially in a nutshell. The point that he's 124 00:07:29,080 --> 00:07:31,560 Speaker 1: going to make is that Maggie Murdoch was killed with 125 00:07:31,640 --> 00:07:34,960 Speaker 1: a family gun that had previously been at Moselle. We 126 00:07:35,000 --> 00:07:38,760 Speaker 1: are expecting him to say that the markings on shellcasings 127 00:07:38,840 --> 00:07:42,400 Speaker 1: next to Maggie's body match other shell casings at a 128 00:07:42,400 --> 00:07:45,240 Speaker 1: different location on the property. And to your point about 129 00:07:45,240 --> 00:07:47,920 Speaker 1: the courtroom being very cold, I did notice that juror 130 00:07:47,960 --> 00:07:50,480 Speaker 1: had a blanket today and I also even noticed the 131 00:07:50,600 --> 00:07:53,200 Speaker 1: judge yawning at some point. While there are bombshell after 132 00:07:53,280 --> 00:07:57,280 Speaker 1: bombshell after bombshell in this trial, there's also a lot 133 00:07:57,360 --> 00:08:00,920 Speaker 1: of just kind of monotonous testimony, whether it's financial crimes 134 00:08:01,000 --> 00:08:03,200 Speaker 1: or the types of casings on the bullet or you know, 135 00:08:03,240 --> 00:08:05,559 Speaker 1: the types of casings, the types of bullets, the types 136 00:08:05,600 --> 00:08:10,040 Speaker 1: of guns. Kelly, it's a lot of stuff that Kelly, Please, yes, 137 00:08:10,360 --> 00:08:14,320 Speaker 1: it's not boring. It's what we in the biz called 138 00:08:14,400 --> 00:08:18,720 Speaker 1: laying a foundation. And unless you lay that foundation, and 139 00:08:18,800 --> 00:08:21,559 Speaker 1: believe me, if not, heartpoolling and somebody on his team 140 00:08:21,720 --> 00:08:24,320 Speaker 1: will jump up in a minute and say that can't 141 00:08:24,320 --> 00:08:27,520 Speaker 1: come in. They didn't lay the foundation. There's a very 142 00:08:27,520 --> 00:08:31,600 Speaker 1: clear and intricate foundation that must be laid for every bullet, 143 00:08:31,880 --> 00:08:36,000 Speaker 1: every shell casing, every item that comes into evidence, and 144 00:08:36,000 --> 00:08:40,439 Speaker 1: it can be very, very painstaking. And speaking of yawning, 145 00:08:40,520 --> 00:08:45,560 Speaker 1: Miss Kelly, I just saw heartpoolling the lead defense attorney yawn. 146 00:08:45,880 --> 00:08:48,960 Speaker 1: I mean when we were little, little in Kinsey Garten, 147 00:08:49,520 --> 00:08:54,760 Speaker 1: we were taught don't yawn. It's rude. Couldn't he stifle 148 00:08:54,800 --> 00:08:57,960 Speaker 1: it for Pete's sake. He's the lead defense attorney. He's 149 00:08:58,080 --> 00:09:00,840 Speaker 1: yawning in front of the jury. He might be yawning 150 00:09:00,840 --> 00:09:02,720 Speaker 1: in front of the jury. But something else I saw 151 00:09:02,760 --> 00:09:05,960 Speaker 1: today is Alex Murdock is definitely not yawning. He is 152 00:09:06,000 --> 00:09:08,839 Speaker 1: looking at every single one of those jurors as they 153 00:09:08,880 --> 00:09:11,920 Speaker 1: file into the courtroom and following them all the way 154 00:09:11,960 --> 00:09:15,440 Speaker 1: to their seat. He stands. He's very tall, you cannot 155 00:09:15,559 --> 00:09:19,720 Speaker 1: miss his presence. He's not yawning. He's even pointing out 156 00:09:19,840 --> 00:09:22,600 Speaker 1: exhibits on the screen. And like we talked about yesterday, 157 00:09:22,600 --> 00:09:25,400 Speaker 1: playing a very active role in his defense. Well, maybe 158 00:09:25,400 --> 00:09:29,240 Speaker 1: he can give Heartpool in a little elbow action to 159 00:09:29,400 --> 00:09:33,440 Speaker 1: keep heartpoolian awake. Once they teach Heartpoolian how to work 160 00:09:33,440 --> 00:09:37,360 Speaker 1: an iPhone, Christine out of the control room, could you 161 00:09:37,480 --> 00:09:39,720 Speaker 1: please let's take it out of order. Let's go to 162 00:09:39,840 --> 00:09:43,760 Speaker 1: our cut nine. Take a list of this everybody. If 163 00:09:43,760 --> 00:09:49,280 Speaker 1: you had the passcode, right, open it. Without the passcode, 164 00:09:50,840 --> 00:09:54,600 Speaker 1: typically you can't open it. Great, No, sir, you agree 165 00:09:54,640 --> 00:09:57,880 Speaker 1: with it. I did answer each other. So if you 166 00:09:58,000 --> 00:10:02,400 Speaker 1: had that passcode, you can open it, delete photos, delete 167 00:10:02,440 --> 00:10:09,679 Speaker 1: phone messages, delete text, delete whatever you want. Correct, yes, sir, okay? Um. 168 00:10:11,520 --> 00:10:15,520 Speaker 1: And whether you found that phone it was wat Yes, 169 00:10:15,600 --> 00:10:19,360 Speaker 1: there it was okay And um was there any evidence 170 00:10:19,360 --> 00:10:22,080 Speaker 1: that you saw that anything had been deleted by that 171 00:10:22,160 --> 00:10:26,040 Speaker 1: from that phone in any of your um after your 172 00:10:26,080 --> 00:10:30,839 Speaker 1: download extraction? Again, I did not download are extracted at 173 00:10:30,840 --> 00:10:33,560 Speaker 1: the contents of the device. The only thing that I 174 00:10:33,600 --> 00:10:35,960 Speaker 1: saw was the home screen and made sure that the 175 00:10:36,000 --> 00:10:52,040 Speaker 1: airplane mode was applicating or applied at that point. Crime 176 00:10:52,080 --> 00:10:58,600 Speaker 1: stories with Nancy Grace. If you had the pass code right, 177 00:10:59,280 --> 00:11:05,200 Speaker 1: open it without the passcode, typically you can't open it. Correct, No, sir, 178 00:11:06,080 --> 00:11:08,520 Speaker 1: you agree with you. I did guess her uppaping shot. 179 00:11:09,240 --> 00:11:12,360 Speaker 1: So if you had that passcode, you could open it, 180 00:11:12,720 --> 00:11:21,520 Speaker 1: delete photos, delete phone messages, delete text, delete whatever you want, correct, yes, sir, okay? Um. 181 00:11:23,360 --> 00:11:27,600 Speaker 1: And when you found that phone it was why, yes, sir, 182 00:11:27,600 --> 00:11:31,320 Speaker 1: it was okay? And um was there any evidence that 183 00:11:31,360 --> 00:11:34,199 Speaker 1: you saw that anything had been deleted by that from 184 00:11:34,240 --> 00:11:40,400 Speaker 1: that phone in any of your um after your download extraction? Again, 185 00:11:40,480 --> 00:11:43,400 Speaker 1: I did not download or extracted at the contents of 186 00:11:43,480 --> 00:11:46,000 Speaker 1: the device. The only thing that I saw was the 187 00:11:46,040 --> 00:11:48,640 Speaker 1: home screen and made sure that the airplane mode was 188 00:11:48,679 --> 00:11:51,599 Speaker 1: advocated to apply to that point, and then it was 189 00:11:51,679 --> 00:11:55,800 Speaker 1: placed into an avid expanse. So, Kelly, is someone on 190 00:11:55,840 --> 00:11:59,880 Speaker 1: the defense team unfamiliar with an iPhone? It seems to 191 00:11:59,920 --> 00:12:02,679 Speaker 1: be Nancy. You just heard Dylan high Tower. He's with 192 00:12:02,760 --> 00:12:07,000 Speaker 1: the fourteenth Circuit Solicitor's Office, and yesterday he and Dick 193 00:12:07,040 --> 00:12:10,319 Speaker 1: harpoolet we harpooletin we're going back and forth on how 194 00:12:10,320 --> 00:12:12,200 Speaker 1: to put a phone in airplane mode. We've heard a 195 00:12:12,240 --> 00:12:15,840 Speaker 1: lot about a faro bag and putting phones into airplane 196 00:12:15,840 --> 00:12:17,960 Speaker 1: mode so they can't be tampered with. There was a 197 00:12:17,960 --> 00:12:19,760 Speaker 1: bit of a back and forth there about how can 198 00:12:19,800 --> 00:12:22,080 Speaker 1: you put a phone into airplane mode? And as most 199 00:12:22,120 --> 00:12:25,400 Speaker 1: iPhone users know, you can do that without the pass code. 200 00:12:25,400 --> 00:12:27,560 Speaker 1: And another funny moment kind of in court was they 201 00:12:27,559 --> 00:12:30,440 Speaker 1: were going back and forth about how Maggie Murdoch's phone 202 00:12:30,480 --> 00:12:32,520 Speaker 1: could have gotten on the side of the road. They 203 00:12:32,520 --> 00:12:34,520 Speaker 1: were talking about do you throw your phone overhand? Do 204 00:12:34,520 --> 00:12:36,440 Speaker 1: you throw it underhand? And high Tower said I would 205 00:12:36,480 --> 00:12:38,720 Speaker 1: simply just fling it out the window like that, and 206 00:12:38,800 --> 00:12:41,320 Speaker 1: that really seemed to stop Alec Murdock's defense in their 207 00:12:41,360 --> 00:12:43,680 Speaker 1: tracks there and they stopped their question. Yeah, you know what, 208 00:12:43,920 --> 00:12:49,080 Speaker 1: my ninety one year old mother can work an iPhone 209 00:12:49,120 --> 00:12:51,600 Speaker 1: better than anybody I know, so maybe she can give 210 00:12:51,640 --> 00:12:55,360 Speaker 1: Hartpooling a lesson on how to work an iPhone. Speaking 211 00:12:55,400 --> 00:12:57,400 Speaker 1: of iPhone side, I want to go off on a tangent, 212 00:12:57,720 --> 00:13:00,480 Speaker 1: but sorry Christaine, once again I got to go out 213 00:13:00,480 --> 00:13:04,760 Speaker 1: of order. Can we please play cut five? Speaking of 214 00:13:05,480 --> 00:13:08,880 Speaker 1: deleted items on a cell phone, It's not Maggie's cell phone. 215 00:13:08,920 --> 00:13:13,559 Speaker 1: I'm worried about. Take a listen to this specifically with 216 00:13:13,600 --> 00:13:16,800 Speaker 1: Alex's phone. What did you discover when you're comparing these 217 00:13:16,800 --> 00:13:20,040 Speaker 1: phone records to the phone itself the call log. Once 218 00:13:20,120 --> 00:13:23,320 Speaker 1: I started, I essentially built a digital timeline, evolve forms 219 00:13:23,320 --> 00:13:25,840 Speaker 1: and digital evidence that we had had during that time frame. 220 00:13:25,920 --> 00:13:29,839 Speaker 1: On the Dayton question on June seventh, I only saw 221 00:13:30,040 --> 00:13:34,040 Speaker 1: two FaceTime calls on the phone extraction, and I saw 222 00:13:34,040 --> 00:13:36,720 Speaker 1: a series of around seventy three phone calls on the 223 00:13:36,800 --> 00:13:42,160 Speaker 1: Verizon call detail record. I'm good. And what did that 224 00:13:42,240 --> 00:13:46,840 Speaker 1: tell you when you saw that that missing information? It 225 00:13:46,840 --> 00:13:49,760 Speaker 1: could be a multitude of things. They were either removed 226 00:13:49,760 --> 00:13:52,840 Speaker 1: by the user or the one responsible or using the device. 227 00:13:53,920 --> 00:13:57,680 Speaker 1: It could have overlapped from the call og history. That 228 00:13:57,720 --> 00:13:59,440 Speaker 1: could have been a series of things. So you didn't 229 00:13:59,440 --> 00:14:03,360 Speaker 1: recover any deleted artifacts of the phone call necessary, I didn't. 230 00:14:03,360 --> 00:14:06,600 Speaker 1: When I say deleted artifacts, what does that mean? Anything 231 00:14:06,600 --> 00:14:10,920 Speaker 1: that was manually deleted from the device itself overlapped from 232 00:14:11,080 --> 00:14:15,320 Speaker 1: call log history. You know, in all my years of 233 00:14:15,600 --> 00:14:18,800 Speaker 1: using cell phones, I've never had that happen. And I've 234 00:14:18,840 --> 00:14:23,320 Speaker 1: actually never known an instance where I've had items deleted 235 00:14:23,440 --> 00:14:28,080 Speaker 1: without me doing it myself. So, Cheryl McCollum, what are 236 00:14:28,120 --> 00:14:31,320 Speaker 1: they saying, Because I'm interpreting it to mean that Murdo 237 00:14:31,480 --> 00:14:37,360 Speaker 1: deleted seventy three phone calls on Jus seven, the same 238 00:14:37,480 --> 00:14:41,400 Speaker 1: day his wife and son were murdered. That's exactly how 239 00:14:41,440 --> 00:14:44,040 Speaker 1: I interpret it. And Nancy, this could be one of 240 00:14:44,080 --> 00:14:48,200 Speaker 1: those money trees that not only tightened that timeline, but 241 00:14:48,400 --> 00:14:52,240 Speaker 1: so exactly that this person was trying to get rid 242 00:14:52,320 --> 00:14:56,600 Speaker 1: of some type of communication that he made with the victims, 243 00:14:56,640 --> 00:14:59,160 Speaker 1: and you know, possibly other people as well. That many. 244 00:14:59,240 --> 00:15:01,840 Speaker 1: But if let's say he takes in her or spent 245 00:15:01,920 --> 00:15:05,880 Speaker 1: her a voicemail that was less than romantic, he wants 246 00:15:05,920 --> 00:15:08,120 Speaker 1: to get rid of that to show that they weren't 247 00:15:08,160 --> 00:15:10,800 Speaker 1: having any kind of trouble. Remember, their marriage is as 248 00:15:10,840 --> 00:15:13,760 Speaker 1: good as it can be. He doesn't want any voicemail 249 00:15:13,800 --> 00:15:16,600 Speaker 1: where he was cussing at her or using any type 250 00:15:16,600 --> 00:15:19,520 Speaker 1: of bulgarity toward her. And in your situation, he wants 251 00:15:19,520 --> 00:15:21,960 Speaker 1: to get rid of those text messages where he lured 252 00:15:22,000 --> 00:15:25,720 Speaker 1: her there, or even she told her friend, hey, something's up. 253 00:15:25,800 --> 00:15:30,040 Speaker 1: He's acting fishing. That is exactly what I'm thinking, because 254 00:15:30,120 --> 00:15:35,560 Speaker 1: we got it clearly yesterday that he murdog lured Maggie 255 00:15:35,640 --> 00:15:39,640 Speaker 1: there under the guise of, Hey, my dad's about to die. 256 00:15:39,840 --> 00:15:42,000 Speaker 1: I need you to come to Moselle. We need to 257 00:15:42,000 --> 00:15:44,640 Speaker 1: go visit him. I'd like to point out he didn't 258 00:15:44,680 --> 00:15:46,880 Speaker 1: go visit his dad that night, and she didn't go 259 00:15:47,000 --> 00:15:49,520 Speaker 1: visit the dad that night that we know of, So 260 00:15:49,600 --> 00:15:53,480 Speaker 1: that was all just a big ruse. R Brandt, Senior Inspector, 261 00:15:53,600 --> 00:15:59,840 Speaker 1: US Marshall's Service, International Investigations author with DJ, I mean 262 00:16:00,680 --> 00:16:03,320 Speaker 1: the US government has sent Or Brandt all around the 263 00:16:03,360 --> 00:16:07,280 Speaker 1: world in prosecutions. Or brand thank you for being with us. 264 00:16:07,320 --> 00:16:11,800 Speaker 1: Seventy three missing calls from Alex Murdock's phone. All right, 265 00:16:12,120 --> 00:16:15,520 Speaker 1: that could be an accident, but how likely is it 266 00:16:15,600 --> 00:16:18,680 Speaker 1: to be an accident the night his wife and son 267 00:16:19,040 --> 00:16:22,840 Speaker 1: are murdered and investigations. You don't believe in a coincidence, 268 00:16:22,880 --> 00:16:25,920 Speaker 1: and you don't believe in accidents. This was obviously a 269 00:16:26,040 --> 00:16:31,440 Speaker 1: deliberate act and it's devastating to the fence. The jurors 270 00:16:31,440 --> 00:16:33,400 Speaker 1: are going to see it as he's trying to cover 271 00:16:33,600 --> 00:16:37,520 Speaker 1: up and he's trying to get rid of evidence that 272 00:16:37,600 --> 00:16:41,280 Speaker 1: doesn't gel with his alibi. You know you said that 273 00:16:41,400 --> 00:16:46,080 Speaker 1: so perfectly, so succinctly, Or Brandt, or Michelle Dupree joining 274 00:16:46,120 --> 00:16:51,120 Speaker 1: me there in South Carolina, forensic pathologist, medical examiner, former 275 00:16:51,200 --> 00:16:55,160 Speaker 1: detective and author, and this says it all of homicide 276 00:16:55,400 --> 00:17:01,160 Speaker 1: Investigation field guide. She's a d Michelle du premd dot com, 277 00:17:01,200 --> 00:17:03,360 Speaker 1: doctor dupre thank you for being with us. I want 278 00:17:03,360 --> 00:17:07,600 Speaker 1: to circle back to what we heard just before we 279 00:17:08,280 --> 00:17:11,960 Speaker 1: came out of the courthouse Paul Greer, Special Agent Paul 280 00:17:12,040 --> 00:17:17,159 Speaker 1: Greer on the stand. He was just presented States exhibits 281 00:17:17,440 --> 00:17:23,320 Speaker 1: and he described them as bullets from the left shoulder 282 00:17:23,440 --> 00:17:30,879 Speaker 1: and head of Paul Murdog. I just wanted that is 283 00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:36,040 Speaker 1: soakin just a moment, doctor dupre How many times have 284 00:17:36,160 --> 00:17:38,400 Speaker 1: you dug a bullet out of a dead body? More 285 00:17:38,440 --> 00:17:40,399 Speaker 1: than I can count? How do you do it? Well? 286 00:17:40,440 --> 00:17:44,480 Speaker 1: You are very careful to not put extra markings on 287 00:17:44,560 --> 00:17:48,679 Speaker 1: the bullet, so you typically you photograph everything, You document 288 00:17:48,760 --> 00:17:51,480 Speaker 1: everything on a sketch, and then when you remove the bullet, 289 00:17:51,680 --> 00:17:55,000 Speaker 1: you go adjacent to it to take the bullet out 290 00:17:55,040 --> 00:17:57,800 Speaker 1: so that you do not place markings on it. But 291 00:17:57,880 --> 00:17:59,800 Speaker 1: I want to say something about what he said. He 292 00:18:00,080 --> 00:18:03,320 Speaker 1: said that plastic was recovered from the left shoulder and 293 00:18:03,400 --> 00:18:06,960 Speaker 1: head of Paul. This is most likely wadding, And in 294 00:18:07,040 --> 00:18:10,520 Speaker 1: my experience, I am not a firearms examiner. However, in 295 00:18:10,560 --> 00:18:14,360 Speaker 1: my experience, wadding that actually enters a body or causes 296 00:18:14,400 --> 00:18:18,080 Speaker 1: injury from a shotgun typically goes only about six feet 297 00:18:18,119 --> 00:18:20,120 Speaker 1: or so. Now it can go much farther than that, 298 00:18:20,400 --> 00:18:22,840 Speaker 1: but to find it in a body, this places that 299 00:18:22,960 --> 00:18:27,520 Speaker 1: shooter probably within about six feet of the victim, Dodger Dupree, 300 00:18:27,840 --> 00:18:31,240 Speaker 1: Could you just put it in slow mo and say 301 00:18:31,280 --> 00:18:37,280 Speaker 1: that very carefully and slowly what you just said, because 302 00:18:37,400 --> 00:18:42,919 Speaker 1: I find that extremely important As to I Nancy, the autopsy, 303 00:18:43,000 --> 00:18:47,280 Speaker 1: according to the person that was just speaking, found plastic 304 00:18:47,800 --> 00:18:51,680 Speaker 1: in Paul's wound in the left shoulder and head. That 305 00:18:51,800 --> 00:18:56,040 Speaker 1: plastic is most likely part of the shotgun wadding that 306 00:18:56,119 --> 00:18:58,920 Speaker 1: was described by Agent Grier, who is awesome by the way. 307 00:19:00,480 --> 00:19:03,680 Speaker 1: But what that indicates to me is that the wadding 308 00:19:03,760 --> 00:19:07,399 Speaker 1: can travel a distance. And I'm not a firearms examiner, 309 00:19:07,720 --> 00:19:11,600 Speaker 1: but in my experience it typically only travels about six 310 00:19:11,640 --> 00:19:15,280 Speaker 1: feet or so to enter the body if gravity takes 311 00:19:15,280 --> 00:19:18,560 Speaker 1: over and it falls down after that. So to me, 312 00:19:18,680 --> 00:19:21,880 Speaker 1: this tells me that the shooter was probably about six 313 00:19:21,920 --> 00:19:25,480 Speaker 1: feet or so from Paul when he was shot, six 314 00:19:25,680 --> 00:19:30,880 Speaker 1: feet or less because wadding typically travels, as you just said, 315 00:19:30,920 --> 00:19:35,040 Speaker 1: about six feet. Now, this goes hand in hand with 316 00:19:35,119 --> 00:19:39,000 Speaker 1: the theory of a close range shooting, which completely defeats 317 00:19:39,440 --> 00:19:45,199 Speaker 1: the defense theory that there's probably two as selants. It 318 00:19:45,320 --> 00:19:49,080 Speaker 1: shows me that all of this was close range. People 319 00:19:49,119 --> 00:19:52,560 Speaker 1: were moving, so the trajectory path the angle of the 320 00:19:52,600 --> 00:19:56,920 Speaker 1: bullets means less and less and less. We've got stipling, 321 00:19:57,000 --> 00:20:02,000 Speaker 1: we've got wadding inside the wound side Paul's body. Again, 322 00:20:02,480 --> 00:20:08,160 Speaker 1: that shows close range contact. And Cheryl McCollum explain what 323 00:20:08,359 --> 00:20:12,520 Speaker 1: is wadding and how does it get into the body? 324 00:20:12,520 --> 00:20:16,120 Speaker 1: It travels with the bullet when you're talking about a shotgun, 325 00:20:16,280 --> 00:20:21,000 Speaker 1: for sure, absolutely, and this shooter left nothing to chance 326 00:20:21,040 --> 00:20:23,560 Speaker 1: who was not going to shoot from a distance. So 327 00:20:23,760 --> 00:20:27,080 Speaker 1: when the projectile is released from the weapon, the wadding 328 00:20:27,160 --> 00:20:31,080 Speaker 1: comes with it and it will be separated. Usually you'll 329 00:20:31,080 --> 00:20:33,679 Speaker 1: find it, you know, near, but in this case we 330 00:20:33,800 --> 00:20:37,400 Speaker 1: have evidence of it being in Paul's body, which if 331 00:20:37,440 --> 00:20:42,199 Speaker 1: you include the length of that weapon. You're talking the 332 00:20:42,240 --> 00:20:45,320 Speaker 1: shooter might have been six feet away, but that weapon 333 00:20:45,400 --> 00:20:50,960 Speaker 1: could have been three to two feet away. Go ahead. 334 00:20:51,440 --> 00:20:54,760 Speaker 1: It's a plastic cup in which all of the the 335 00:20:54,840 --> 00:20:59,280 Speaker 1: actual rounds, either the bird shot or the nine ball 336 00:20:59,480 --> 00:21:04,800 Speaker 1: from a buckshot, centers in. So the buckshot comes right 337 00:21:04,840 --> 00:21:07,880 Speaker 1: as a cup out of the firearm and that's what 338 00:21:07,920 --> 00:21:10,920 Speaker 1: we're talking about here, that went into the body. And 339 00:21:11,080 --> 00:21:14,760 Speaker 1: Cheryl's are absolutely right. You know, that shows extremely close 340 00:21:14,960 --> 00:21:18,400 Speaker 1: range and the fact that there are forty eight actual 341 00:21:18,480 --> 00:21:21,960 Speaker 1: pellets found in the shoulder area means that it has 342 00:21:22,000 --> 00:21:25,040 Speaker 1: to be close range. Anything over that you're gonna have 343 00:21:25,880 --> 00:21:32,000 Speaker 1: not quite so many actual rounds in the body. Absolutely So, Nancy, 344 00:21:32,080 --> 00:21:35,480 Speaker 1: think of a saucer and then a plate and then 345 00:21:35,520 --> 00:21:38,560 Speaker 1: a flatter, and then it's bigger than that. So you're 346 00:21:38,600 --> 00:21:44,880 Speaker 1: talking about a saucer. That's how tight these projectiles were 347 00:21:45,840 --> 00:21:49,760 Speaker 1: in a math. Christine in the control room, could you 348 00:21:49,840 --> 00:21:55,000 Speaker 1: show me a picture please, of Paul and Maggie or 349 00:21:55,040 --> 00:21:59,400 Speaker 1: a single shot of each one of them, because it's 350 00:21:59,480 --> 00:22:05,439 Speaker 1: easy when we're talking about watting on bullets, it's I 351 00:22:05,560 --> 00:22:09,480 Speaker 1: found this bullet, and I found that cartridge, and these 352 00:22:09,520 --> 00:22:16,360 Speaker 1: people were shot brutally repeatedly. Look at Maggie Kelly. How 353 00:22:16,400 --> 00:22:20,360 Speaker 1: many times was Maggie Murdoch's shot as she was running? 354 00:22:20,800 --> 00:22:25,119 Speaker 1: She was running Kelly, she saw her SunShot first. I believe, 355 00:22:25,119 --> 00:22:27,600 Speaker 1: according to what we know right now, she saw and 356 00:22:27,720 --> 00:22:31,040 Speaker 1: heard that and she's running for her life. And when 357 00:22:31,040 --> 00:22:33,320 Speaker 1: I look at them, I look at their faces and 358 00:22:33,359 --> 00:22:39,720 Speaker 1: I imagine seeing your son, your child shot and then 359 00:22:39,760 --> 00:22:42,880 Speaker 1: suddenly you're running for your life. You're torn between trying 360 00:22:42,880 --> 00:22:47,000 Speaker 1: to save him and running, and then you're gunned down 361 00:22:47,040 --> 00:22:51,640 Speaker 1: and you know who your killer is. This isn't some hypothetical. 362 00:22:52,080 --> 00:22:56,680 Speaker 1: This lovely lady, this devoted mother to raising these two boys, 363 00:22:57,040 --> 00:23:01,119 Speaker 1: to working to being a mom, is gounned down in 364 00:23:01,320 --> 00:23:06,640 Speaker 1: a dog kennel along with her baby boy. And yes, 365 00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:09,840 Speaker 1: I say baby boy. My son is six foot four. 366 00:23:10,280 --> 00:23:14,040 Speaker 1: Well he's six foot five now and he's still my 367 00:23:14,160 --> 00:23:18,600 Speaker 1: baby boy. I mean, is that getting lost on anybody 368 00:23:18,640 --> 00:23:21,359 Speaker 1: in the courtroom, Kelly, This is the basis for the 369 00:23:21,359 --> 00:23:24,359 Speaker 1: premeditation too. You're right. I'm gonna circle back on that 370 00:23:24,440 --> 00:23:27,000 Speaker 1: go ahead kill. So we know that Maggie was shot 371 00:23:27,080 --> 00:23:29,560 Speaker 1: at least five times, and what we've learned from the 372 00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:33,639 Speaker 1: prosecution is that she was shot second. So in all likelihood, 373 00:23:33,760 --> 00:23:37,600 Speaker 1: she saw her own son Paul being shot, tried to 374 00:23:37,680 --> 00:23:41,200 Speaker 1: run away and was shot five times. Some of those 375 00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:45,040 Speaker 1: shots were execution style. Okay, I think that was you Dale, 376 00:23:45,119 --> 00:23:48,359 Speaker 1: go ahead up him? It wasn't you know? The premeditation 377 00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:51,600 Speaker 1: becomes brother obvious. If he is in fact guilty, then 378 00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:54,960 Speaker 1: he had to stage the weapons, and he had to 379 00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:58,159 Speaker 1: have them present in the area where everybody would be 380 00:23:58,720 --> 00:24:01,800 Speaker 1: when they're tending to the dogs, and he's able to 381 00:24:01,840 --> 00:24:05,080 Speaker 1: grab the shotgun shoot his son first, and then he 382 00:24:05,119 --> 00:24:07,399 Speaker 1: has the other weapon in case there's a flaw with 383 00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:10,560 Speaker 1: the first shotgun, and then he can use the second 384 00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:13,960 Speaker 1: gun as his wife runs away. Because of course, distance 385 00:24:14,320 --> 00:24:17,159 Speaker 1: makes it more difficult to kill somebody with a shotgun. 386 00:24:17,640 --> 00:24:21,840 Speaker 1: So that all plays into the premeditation that the prosecution 387 00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:28,160 Speaker 1: will ultimately bring to bear against the defense. Go ahead there, 388 00:24:28,440 --> 00:24:31,480 Speaker 1: Dail's a hundred percent right. And if you listen to 389 00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:36,679 Speaker 1: what Alex Burdoch said in his statement to police, he 390 00:24:36,800 --> 00:24:39,200 Speaker 1: told us how he did it. He said that he 391 00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:42,560 Speaker 1: and Paul had been out on the four wheeler looking 392 00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:44,800 Speaker 1: for hogs to shoot. Well, both of them would have 393 00:24:44,840 --> 00:24:47,199 Speaker 1: had a weapon. He would have circled back around with 394 00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:50,480 Speaker 1: that fore wheeler. Those two weapons were right there at 395 00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:53,439 Speaker 1: the rage. You know, Irv Brandt joining me, You're saying 396 00:24:53,640 --> 00:24:57,959 Speaker 1: so many cases all around the world, But I'm just 397 00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:06,200 Speaker 1: thinking about the dynamic between Paul and Maggie. Maggie has 398 00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:11,840 Speaker 1: been standing by for years, watching her marriage deteriorate. And 399 00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:15,000 Speaker 1: if you really love your children, you want your marriage 400 00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:20,199 Speaker 1: to work, you want their father to be there. And 401 00:25:20,359 --> 00:25:25,720 Speaker 1: she has stood by and seeing alleged drug abuse, stealing money, 402 00:25:26,119 --> 00:25:30,280 Speaker 1: exorbitant spending and if you are on drugs, you have 403 00:25:30,359 --> 00:25:37,080 Speaker 1: these wild mood swings, losing the money, just losing everything, 404 00:25:38,520 --> 00:25:42,720 Speaker 1: and all that leads to this moment where she is 405 00:25:42,840 --> 00:25:47,520 Speaker 1: gunned down in a dog kennel. And that's exactly right, Nancy. 406 00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:50,840 Speaker 1: Everyone has a breaking point, no matter how much you 407 00:25:51,440 --> 00:25:54,400 Speaker 1: love your child, no matter how much you love your husband, 408 00:25:55,640 --> 00:25:58,000 Speaker 1: the amount of things that are just stacking up and 409 00:25:58,080 --> 00:26:02,959 Speaker 1: keep stacking up would drive her to the point of confrontation, 410 00:26:04,119 --> 00:26:10,880 Speaker 1: maybe threats. She obviously becomes a liability, and also her 411 00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:15,720 Speaker 1: child becomes a liability. And like said before, with two weapons, 412 00:26:15,760 --> 00:26:18,439 Speaker 1: if you have them staged out, that was a cold 413 00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:22,960 Speaker 1: blooded act to use the shotgun first, then to pick 414 00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:25,080 Speaker 1: up the rifle because you didn't want to take the 415 00:26:25,119 --> 00:26:28,119 Speaker 1: time to reload the shotgun. Then go to the rifle, 416 00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:32,680 Speaker 1: then bring a person down, then walk up and do 417 00:26:32,800 --> 00:26:38,640 Speaker 1: a close range kill shot. Just completely completely cold blooded 418 00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:43,720 Speaker 1: actions and premeditated actions. Kelly ski and joining me. Kelly 419 00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:47,160 Speaker 1: has just walked out of the courtroom. So did Murdog 420 00:26:47,560 --> 00:26:50,480 Speaker 1: start crying again today? You know, I'm looking at the 421 00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:52,360 Speaker 1: back of his head, so I did not see him 422 00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:54,919 Speaker 1: crying today. But what I did see right before I 423 00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:58,679 Speaker 1: left is an older lady who I'm still working to identify, 424 00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:01,679 Speaker 1: blew him a kiss. She was sitting with the Murdoch family. 425 00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:04,560 Speaker 1: He gave her a very very big smile and a 426 00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:07,040 Speaker 1: thumbs up. It's one of the first kind of shows 427 00:27:07,040 --> 00:27:09,919 Speaker 1: of emotion outside of crying or just giving somebody the 428 00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:13,199 Speaker 1: steatlide stare that I've seen for Murdoch so far. And 429 00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:15,320 Speaker 1: I want to say one more thing about Maggie Murdoch. 430 00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:18,000 Speaker 1: What we've also learned is that in all likelihoods, she 431 00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:21,280 Speaker 1: actually picked up and bought the weapon that she was 432 00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:23,359 Speaker 1: murdered with, and I think that just speaks to the 433 00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:26,280 Speaker 1: tragedy of this entire thing. Guys, I want to go 434 00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:30,400 Speaker 1: back into the courtroom for you to hear the testimony yourself. Christine, 435 00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:33,399 Speaker 1: I'm trying to get his back on track. Thank you 436 00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:36,240 Speaker 1: for going with me. Let's go to our cut three. 437 00:27:36,520 --> 00:27:43,680 Speaker 1: I'm just wondering how, if, and how Alex Murdog discarded 438 00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:48,680 Speaker 1: his bloody clothing. Take a listen to Special Agent Katie 439 00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:53,600 Speaker 1: McAlister on searching the house. Once I arrived on seeing 440 00:27:54,240 --> 00:27:57,000 Speaker 1: myself along especially to Croft, were asked to go up 441 00:27:57,000 --> 00:28:01,000 Speaker 1: to the main house to do search of the property. 442 00:28:01,359 --> 00:28:04,120 Speaker 1: Or of the home. Did you have a search warrant? 443 00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:08,560 Speaker 1: There was a search warrant? Yes, Was that search warrant executed? 444 00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:13,000 Speaker 1: It was not? Why not? At the time of my arrival, 445 00:28:13,240 --> 00:28:17,000 Speaker 1: multiple family, close friends were at the house. Rather than 446 00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:20,560 Speaker 1: executing the search warrant and displacing all of those people, 447 00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:23,480 Speaker 1: we asked for consent and we were given it. And 448 00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:26,080 Speaker 1: we're a lot of people at that residence at the time. 449 00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:28,440 Speaker 1: There were You could give us kind of a rough 450 00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:31,439 Speaker 1: estimate of the amount of people that were there. I 451 00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:33,800 Speaker 1: would say maybe twenty or twenty five people were in 452 00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:36,359 Speaker 1: the home when you walked through the house where you along, 453 00:28:36,760 --> 00:28:39,600 Speaker 1: I was not who was with you. I believe it 454 00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:43,400 Speaker 1: was John Marvin Murdoch and leco So. John Marvin Murdoch 455 00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:50,320 Speaker 1: is Murdoch's brother. Guys, they had permission to go into 456 00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:53,400 Speaker 1: the home. But del Carson, that does not impress me 457 00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:56,000 Speaker 1: at all that Alex murdog or one of his family 458 00:28:56,040 --> 00:29:00,040 Speaker 1: gave permission. They're all lawyers. They know how bad it 459 00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:03,680 Speaker 1: looks if you go, hey, no, you're not coming in 460 00:29:03,760 --> 00:29:05,960 Speaker 1: our house. You got to go get a search warrant 461 00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:08,720 Speaker 1: because they know SLED has already probably got a search 462 00:29:08,760 --> 00:29:12,720 Speaker 1: warrant as it is, so they gave permission, even so 463 00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:16,400 Speaker 1: they should remove everybody from the house. It's seen contamination. 464 00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:19,280 Speaker 1: When you have other people at your shoulder watching what 465 00:29:19,320 --> 00:29:23,720 Speaker 1: you're doing, you're not going to perform exactly what needs 466 00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:27,160 Speaker 1: to happen, and that means a thorough search, and that 467 00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:30,480 Speaker 1: doesn't happen amid a bunch of people. That happens when 468 00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:32,880 Speaker 1: you put crime tape around the house and you really 469 00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:35,840 Speaker 1: do a thorough search. And the fact that they didn't 470 00:29:35,880 --> 00:29:40,000 Speaker 1: do that makes me wonder why they simply allow somebody 471 00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:44,920 Speaker 1: to consent to the search. In Florida, you're commanded to 472 00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:49,360 Speaker 1: execute the search warrant. That's a judge's authorization telling you 473 00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:53,040 Speaker 1: to go do it, and it doesn't allow for taking 474 00:29:53,120 --> 00:29:59,320 Speaker 1: someone's consent because that affects the actual carrying of the evidence, 475 00:29:59,400 --> 00:30:02,280 Speaker 1: the location the evidence, all of those things are affected 476 00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:04,560 Speaker 1: by all of these people being in the house and 477 00:30:05,040 --> 00:30:09,160 Speaker 1: the people's place stayed in the home or not if 478 00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:12,080 Speaker 1: they left to do the search. Go ahead, doctor Dupree, Well, 479 00:30:12,080 --> 00:30:14,600 Speaker 1: that's exactly right. This is very reminiscent of the John 480 00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:18,080 Speaker 1: Bona Ramsey case where the same thing happened and that 481 00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:20,760 Speaker 1: crime scene was a disaster from the beginning, and I'm 482 00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:24,400 Speaker 1: wondering about this search. You do not allow other people 483 00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:27,120 Speaker 1: to be in the house. Well, I haven't heard anything 484 00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:30,880 Speaker 1: suggesting that there was a bad search other than Del 485 00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:34,440 Speaker 1: Carson and doctor Michelle dupree. Do we know anything about 486 00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:38,320 Speaker 1: a bad search, Kelly skin or Cheryl McCallum, because I 487 00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:40,840 Speaker 1: haven't heard a word about it other than people were 488 00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:43,440 Speaker 1: walking around in the dog kennel. I know that. But 489 00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:47,200 Speaker 1: when you find two dead bodies, for Pete's sake, your 490 00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:50,920 Speaker 1: first concern is not, hey, back off. Your concern is 491 00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:53,760 Speaker 1: are they dead or alive? What can we do, if anything, 492 00:30:53,840 --> 00:30:56,440 Speaker 1: to save them? Is there a sheeter on the grounds? 493 00:30:56,520 --> 00:30:59,440 Speaker 1: I mean, there's a lot to take in so second 494 00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:02,040 Speaker 1: guessing anything they do. I don't know that if that's appropriate. 495 00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:09,800 Speaker 1: It may not, but it does. Anybody had a sintilla 496 00:31:09,920 --> 00:31:13,239 Speaker 1: of evidence that there was a bad search? Now, if 497 00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:16,160 Speaker 1: there was, fine, we'll deal with it. But if there's 498 00:31:16,280 --> 00:31:19,880 Speaker 1: not a bad search, then let's move forward. Does anybody 499 00:31:19,920 --> 00:31:23,560 Speaker 1: have even a shred of evidence that the interior of 500 00:31:23,640 --> 00:31:30,560 Speaker 1: the Mozille hunting Lodge was a subject of a bad search? Yes? No, okay, 501 00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:37,280 Speaker 1: let's move forward. Sled agent McAllister looking for potential bloody clothes? 502 00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:40,120 Speaker 1: What if anything? Did she? Fine? Take a list of 503 00:31:40,120 --> 00:31:43,120 Speaker 1: the hour cut four. Did you search the bedrooms? I 504 00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:47,960 Speaker 1: didn't you find any clothes, shoes, any evidence of clothing 505 00:31:48,040 --> 00:31:50,760 Speaker 1: that would have blood on it or indicated head blood 506 00:31:50,760 --> 00:31:53,240 Speaker 1: on it or tissue, anything that you saw in any 507 00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:57,040 Speaker 1: of the bedrooms. How many bedrooms? Several? Several? You looked 508 00:31:57,080 --> 00:31:59,880 Speaker 1: at all of them? Yes, looked under the bed I did. 509 00:32:00,760 --> 00:32:04,080 Speaker 1: In the closets, I did see any evidence of any 510 00:32:04,160 --> 00:32:07,840 Speaker 1: quotes that had been involved in these were altercations that 511 00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:12,120 Speaker 1: had left blood or tissue or brains. See anything like 512 00:32:12,160 --> 00:32:15,080 Speaker 1: that in any one of those rooms. Start find anything 513 00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:18,560 Speaker 1: like that. Okay, guys, um, I'm reviewing my notes and 514 00:32:18,600 --> 00:32:23,160 Speaker 1: guess what. You're right and I'm wrong. Okay, I'm eating 515 00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:26,960 Speaker 1: a dirt sandwich. Wait a minute, I'm eating a dirt 516 00:32:27,040 --> 00:32:32,640 Speaker 1: sandwich here, all right, And to you too, doctor, doctor dupree, 517 00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:39,320 Speaker 1: there were all those people in the house during the search. 518 00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:46,680 Speaker 1: You're right, and that's a very bad move. I don't. 519 00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:51,040 Speaker 1: That doesn't mean anything was done inappropriately, That doesn't mean 520 00:32:51,120 --> 00:32:55,120 Speaker 1: that the evidence was not secured, but it's it gives 521 00:32:55,120 --> 00:32:59,760 Speaker 1: you a much higher likelihood, doctor Dupree, that things can 522 00:32:59,800 --> 00:33:04,640 Speaker 1: go wrong, and yes, it is reminiscent of the Jominy 523 00:33:04,760 --> 00:33:07,760 Speaker 1: Ramsey case, when witnesses were not asked to leave. There 524 00:33:07,760 --> 00:33:11,320 Speaker 1: were family friends there, a lot was happening. They needed 525 00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:14,640 Speaker 1: to all leave, and they take the witnesses separately and 526 00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:18,200 Speaker 1: interview them immediately. And I'm looking at my notes here 527 00:33:18,600 --> 00:33:21,240 Speaker 1: and there were twenty to twenty five people in the 528 00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:25,680 Speaker 1: house during the search, So you're right, and I'm enjoying 529 00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:29,920 Speaker 1: dirt sandwich right now, doctor degree Nancy. One of the 530 00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:32,360 Speaker 1: things that they forgot to do was to check all 531 00:33:32,360 --> 00:33:35,560 Speaker 1: the drain lines, and that's something you always do in 532 00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:38,240 Speaker 1: a case like this to determine whether that or not 533 00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:42,160 Speaker 1: there's any biologic material in the drain lines, and you 534 00:33:42,280 --> 00:33:45,680 Speaker 1: do that with luminol and other processes, and that was 535 00:33:45,760 --> 00:33:48,280 Speaker 1: never done. You're right, what about it, doctor, Yes, that 536 00:33:48,360 --> 00:33:50,360 Speaker 1: is certainly one thing that should be done. You would 537 00:33:50,360 --> 00:33:53,240 Speaker 1: always check for that. In case the perpetrator took a shower, 538 00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:56,400 Speaker 1: there will be evidence of blood or other biological material 539 00:33:56,480 --> 00:33:59,920 Speaker 1: in those areas. And we know that Alex did change club. 540 00:34:00,720 --> 00:34:03,000 Speaker 1: I don't know if you guys remember the Chris Pine 541 00:34:03,080 --> 00:34:07,200 Speaker 1: case where a young man was accused of murdering his 542 00:34:07,280 --> 00:34:12,000 Speaker 1: own mother. There's a long backstory to that, but I 543 00:34:12,080 --> 00:34:16,719 Speaker 1: remember blood being found in the drains, and it turns 544 00:34:16,760 --> 00:34:21,200 Speaker 1: out that the killer had taken a nice long bath 545 00:34:22,120 --> 00:34:25,600 Speaker 1: and probably shaved, but definitely a long bath or shower 546 00:34:26,440 --> 00:34:31,920 Speaker 1: after the murder in the home where the mom was murdered. 547 00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:36,680 Speaker 1: So again, what killer would do that if they were 548 00:34:36,680 --> 00:34:39,600 Speaker 1: worried about being discovered, other than someone in the family 549 00:34:39,680 --> 00:34:42,120 Speaker 1: that knew their way around the home and knew nobody 550 00:34:42,200 --> 00:34:45,400 Speaker 1: was coming home. What killer commits a bloody murder and 551 00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:48,319 Speaker 1: then goes in to the family bathroom and takes a 552 00:34:48,360 --> 00:34:51,880 Speaker 1: bubble bath for Pete's sake. So they're both right. Guys 553 00:34:51,880 --> 00:34:54,480 Speaker 1: were talking about what's going down in the courtroom today, 554 00:34:54,960 --> 00:35:00,440 Speaker 1: but I want you to hear more evidence about motive. 555 00:35:00,600 --> 00:35:04,279 Speaker 1: Take listen to our cut seven. It's fair to say 556 00:35:04,400 --> 00:35:07,240 Speaker 1: that of June twenty twenty one and the months after, 557 00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:11,400 Speaker 1: the indebtedness to Kalimeta State Bank from Alec Murdoch was 558 00:35:11,480 --> 00:35:17,440 Speaker 1: very very large, Yes, sir, it's fair to say it 559 00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:19,400 Speaker 1: also had charged off loans in the past. Is that 560 00:35:19,520 --> 00:35:23,839 Speaker 1: pro yes? Sorry, If it had come out at any 561 00:35:23,880 --> 00:35:27,440 Speaker 1: particular time from let's say two thousand and ten on 562 00:35:27,800 --> 00:35:30,359 Speaker 1: up to June of twenty twenty one, or at any 563 00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:37,440 Speaker 1: time that Alec Murdoch had done stealing money from his 564 00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:42,439 Speaker 1: partners or stealing money from his clients, wouldn't this bank 565 00:35:42,520 --> 00:35:46,560 Speaker 1: have continued to loan him money? No, sorry, okay, money 566 00:35:46,640 --> 00:35:51,239 Speaker 1: money money now. Take a listen to Chris Wilson on 567 00:35:51,280 --> 00:35:55,480 Speaker 1: the stand in our cut. One September the third, two 568 00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:58,799 Speaker 1: twenty one, about three o'clock in the afternoon, when mister 569 00:35:58,880 --> 00:36:01,799 Speaker 1: Lee Cooke called me. The first question he asked me, 570 00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:04,839 Speaker 1: was I still holding seven hundred ninety two thousand dollars 571 00:36:04,880 --> 00:36:07,200 Speaker 1: in my firm? And I said yes, I am, And 572 00:36:07,239 --> 00:36:09,080 Speaker 1: he said, well, we need to get that money paid 573 00:36:09,120 --> 00:36:12,000 Speaker 1: to us. They had discovered a check that I think 574 00:36:12,040 --> 00:36:15,520 Speaker 1: I remember him telling me that was from me to 575 00:36:15,600 --> 00:36:18,239 Speaker 1: Elik in the firm, and that they had discovered that 576 00:36:18,239 --> 00:36:21,600 Speaker 1: Elik was stealing money from the firm and from clients. 577 00:36:21,880 --> 00:36:24,080 Speaker 1: The next morning I tried to call him. He called 578 00:36:24,120 --> 00:36:26,120 Speaker 1: me back and said he would meet me in our 579 00:36:26,200 --> 00:36:28,080 Speaker 1: meta at his mom and daddy's house. Told me that 580 00:36:28,160 --> 00:36:32,720 Speaker 1: he had had a drug problem, that he was addicted 581 00:36:32,760 --> 00:36:35,719 Speaker 1: to opioids. He told me that he had that he 582 00:36:35,760 --> 00:36:39,359 Speaker 1: had been stealing money. I was so mad. I'd love 583 00:36:39,400 --> 00:36:42,920 Speaker 1: the guy for so long, and I probably still loved 584 00:36:42,960 --> 00:36:44,640 Speaker 1: him a little bit, but I was so mad. Kell 585 00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:49,000 Speaker 1: A Skin describe that moment in the courtroom watching Chris 586 00:36:49,000 --> 00:36:53,160 Speaker 1: Wilson testify against his once best friend from law school. 587 00:36:53,440 --> 00:36:57,440 Speaker 1: They were even roommates at one point, was absolutely heartbreaking. 588 00:36:57,520 --> 00:36:59,520 Speaker 1: At one point he needed to take a break and 589 00:36:59,560 --> 00:37:03,880 Speaker 1: compose himself on the stand and when he left, Alec 590 00:37:03,960 --> 00:37:07,120 Speaker 1: Murdoch was staring at him, waiting for him to look over. 591 00:37:07,160 --> 00:37:11,080 Speaker 1: This is his former best friend. He just wants to 592 00:37:11,120 --> 00:37:13,880 Speaker 1: look at him, and Chris Wilson looks down at the ground, 593 00:37:13,960 --> 00:37:16,440 Speaker 1: would not make eye contact with Alec Murdoch and was 594 00:37:16,560 --> 00:37:20,640 Speaker 1: sniffling on his way out of court. It was absolutely heartbreaking. 595 00:37:20,840 --> 00:37:23,200 Speaker 1: And something else we learned from Chris Wilson is after 596 00:37:23,239 --> 00:37:27,160 Speaker 1: that confrontation that he had with Alec Murdoch at his parents' house, 597 00:37:27,239 --> 00:37:30,720 Speaker 1: Chris Wilson walked away from that encounter thinking that Alec 598 00:37:30,800 --> 00:37:34,320 Speaker 1: Murdoch was going to kill himself. And not long after that, actually, 599 00:37:34,360 --> 00:37:37,319 Speaker 1: on Chris Wilson's drive home, he got the call that 600 00:37:37,360 --> 00:37:41,080 Speaker 1: Alec had been shot. Wow to Cheryl McCollum. You know, 601 00:37:41,200 --> 00:37:45,160 Speaker 1: so often we see well what is claimed to have 602 00:37:45,200 --> 00:37:50,120 Speaker 1: been an attempted murder suicide, and then somehow it turns 603 00:37:50,160 --> 00:37:54,320 Speaker 1: out to be just a murder. The thought that Alex 604 00:37:54,480 --> 00:37:59,399 Speaker 1: Murdock would kill himself, I don't see it. He loves 605 00:37:59,480 --> 00:38:03,160 Speaker 1: himself above everything else. I just don't see it. It 606 00:38:03,200 --> 00:38:06,160 Speaker 1: could have been another stunt to engage sympathy. I mean, 607 00:38:06,200 --> 00:38:09,360 Speaker 1: we saw O. J. Simpson do the same thing, Michael Jackson. 608 00:38:09,560 --> 00:38:11,840 Speaker 1: You know, he acted like he was gonna harm himself 609 00:38:11,880 --> 00:38:14,600 Speaker 1: as well, or wrote a note. A lot of times 610 00:38:14,600 --> 00:38:17,480 Speaker 1: it's just to invoke sympathy for people to say, oh no, 611 00:38:17,680 --> 00:38:19,879 Speaker 1: this is how it's set they are, this is how 612 00:38:19,960 --> 00:38:22,000 Speaker 1: much you know they care about what they did wrong. 613 00:38:22,560 --> 00:38:26,320 Speaker 1: And sometimes it's just another level of their cond But 614 00:38:26,480 --> 00:38:30,279 Speaker 1: this is another insurance scam, is what it really was? Right, 615 00:38:30,600 --> 00:38:34,839 Speaker 1: If he didn't commit suicide and somebody shot him, then 616 00:38:34,880 --> 00:38:37,839 Speaker 1: there'd be a double payout to his son Buster. Yeah, 617 00:38:38,640 --> 00:38:41,960 Speaker 1: but only if I'll tell you why. If they really 618 00:38:42,000 --> 00:38:46,839 Speaker 1: wanted to kill Murdog to get that money, Curtis Eddie 619 00:38:46,840 --> 00:38:50,399 Speaker 1: Smith with he just shot him again. I just don't 620 00:38:50,400 --> 00:38:55,520 Speaker 1: think that's what happened. I think was intentionally amiss a grazing, 621 00:38:56,360 --> 00:39:00,359 Speaker 1: so people would believe that the same person that killed 622 00:39:00,680 --> 00:39:05,000 Speaker 1: Paul and Maggie went after Murdoch. I think that was 623 00:39:05,040 --> 00:39:09,040 Speaker 1: the whole thing, because if the deal was shoot me dead, 624 00:39:09,239 --> 00:39:12,960 Speaker 1: I want my only living side to get that multimillion 625 00:39:13,040 --> 00:39:16,320 Speaker 1: dollar life insurance policy, then he would have just shot him. Again. 626 00:39:17,200 --> 00:39:21,280 Speaker 1: That did not happen. Jump in So I agree, Nancy. 627 00:39:21,440 --> 00:39:24,760 Speaker 1: This is the South we learn about firearms and handling 628 00:39:24,760 --> 00:39:27,400 Speaker 1: guns when we learned our ABC's. If he would have 629 00:39:27,600 --> 00:39:29,960 Speaker 1: somebody would have wanted to shoot him, Dad, he would 630 00:39:29,960 --> 00:39:32,400 Speaker 1: be dead by now. Yeah, there were plenty of bullets 631 00:39:32,440 --> 00:39:35,960 Speaker 1: in that chamber. If they were if Chris Edward Smith 632 00:39:36,239 --> 00:39:52,240 Speaker 1: one of murdogh dead, he would have been dead. Time 633 00:39:52,280 --> 00:39:56,399 Speaker 1: stories with Nancy Grace. You know another thing happened just 634 00:39:56,480 --> 00:40:00,040 Speaker 1: before the judge broke for lunch to Kelly Skin and 635 00:40:00,320 --> 00:40:04,000 Speaker 1: Fox Nation producer joining us just coming out of the courtroom. 636 00:40:04,719 --> 00:40:10,880 Speaker 1: There were no fingerprints at all on the gun or 637 00:40:10,920 --> 00:40:14,920 Speaker 1: the phone. And I'm talking about Paul's phone, and I 638 00:40:15,000 --> 00:40:19,160 Speaker 1: find that very odd because Paul had been on his 639 00:40:19,360 --> 00:40:22,800 Speaker 1: phone right up till the time of his martyr Yeah, Nancy, 640 00:40:22,840 --> 00:40:24,959 Speaker 1: think about a phone. It's in our hands all day, 641 00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:28,120 Speaker 1: every day. There are fingerprints all over it. And today 642 00:40:28,160 --> 00:40:31,399 Speaker 1: we heard from a fingerprint expert that there there was 643 00:40:31,600 --> 00:40:33,640 Speaker 1: not that there wasn't any fingerprints on his phone, but 644 00:40:33,640 --> 00:40:35,719 Speaker 1: there was nothing that he could pull off of it, 645 00:40:35,960 --> 00:40:38,160 Speaker 1: So that strikes me as very odd. He also didn't 646 00:40:38,160 --> 00:40:40,719 Speaker 1: find any usable fingerprints on any of the guns that 647 00:40:40,760 --> 00:40:43,040 Speaker 1: he was given. And something that I want to keep 648 00:40:43,080 --> 00:40:45,600 Speaker 1: an eye on is if you remember when Alec Murdoch 649 00:40:45,680 --> 00:40:48,320 Speaker 1: was being interviewed by police in the car, he asked 650 00:40:48,400 --> 00:40:51,840 Speaker 1: police if anybody had gotten fingerprints off of Maggie's phone. 651 00:40:52,000 --> 00:40:55,600 Speaker 1: So fingerprints are definitely on the top of Alec Murdoch's mind. 652 00:40:55,840 --> 00:40:59,399 Speaker 1: Another thing about the phone, Callie, and for right now 653 00:40:59,440 --> 00:41:04,600 Speaker 1: I'm talking about Paul Murdoch's phone. Where was Paul Murdoch's 654 00:41:04,640 --> 00:41:08,560 Speaker 1: phone discovered? Unfortunately I did see a picture of this 655 00:41:08,600 --> 00:41:12,240 Speaker 1: and Paul Murdoch's phone is on the center of his thigh, 656 00:41:12,520 --> 00:41:16,320 Speaker 1: very carefully placed there, and as we know from Alec Murdoch, 657 00:41:16,400 --> 00:41:18,800 Speaker 1: he says he's the one who placed it there after 658 00:41:18,880 --> 00:41:22,919 Speaker 1: trying to turn Paul Murdoch's body over to see if 659 00:41:22,920 --> 00:41:26,879 Speaker 1: he could find anything or get find a pulse on 660 00:41:26,960 --> 00:41:29,560 Speaker 1: Paul so at a minimum, you would kind of expect 661 00:41:29,560 --> 00:41:32,840 Speaker 1: for Alec Burdock's fingerprints to be on Paul's phone since 662 00:41:32,840 --> 00:41:35,560 Speaker 1: he admittedly touched it. Let me ask you something, Kelly, 663 00:41:35,560 --> 00:41:40,640 Speaker 1: would you please say that again? Murdoch says he touched 664 00:41:40,920 --> 00:41:45,319 Speaker 1: Paul's body and then in the middle of saying your 665 00:41:45,400 --> 00:41:48,640 Speaker 1: child dead, you're worried about where are you're gonna put 666 00:41:48,719 --> 00:41:53,319 Speaker 1: his cell phone? Yes, Alec Murdoch admittedly says that he 667 00:41:53,520 --> 00:41:56,839 Speaker 1: tried to turn Paul Murdoch's body over to see if 668 00:41:56,880 --> 00:41:59,359 Speaker 1: he could get a pulse on him. In the process, 669 00:41:59,400 --> 00:42:02,640 Speaker 1: Paul Murdock's phone popped out of his pocket and Alec, 670 00:42:02,760 --> 00:42:05,359 Speaker 1: in his own words, picked that phone up and put 671 00:42:05,400 --> 00:42:09,080 Speaker 1: it back on Paul's side. And that is the phone 672 00:42:09,200 --> 00:42:11,880 Speaker 1: that fingerprint analysts. There's no way you check for a 673 00:42:12,000 --> 00:42:17,560 Speaker 1: pulse with somebody who doesn't have half their head. That's ridiculous. Agree, 674 00:42:17,600 --> 00:42:22,839 Speaker 1: and Kelly, wasn't there blood on the inside of Paul 675 00:42:22,920 --> 00:42:26,719 Speaker 1: Murdoch's pocket. There was blood on the inside of his pocket. 676 00:42:26,760 --> 00:42:30,080 Speaker 1: There was a pool of blood underneath his body. So 677 00:42:30,120 --> 00:42:34,320 Speaker 1: how this phone is clean, I'm not quite sure. Cheryl McCallum, 678 00:42:34,320 --> 00:42:37,520 Speaker 1: I'm a forensic expert, weigh in. I can tell you 679 00:42:37,960 --> 00:42:41,120 Speaker 1: the phone is clean, just like Alec Murdoch's hands are 680 00:42:41,120 --> 00:42:44,719 Speaker 1: clean because they never touched the blood. He didn't check 681 00:42:44,800 --> 00:42:47,360 Speaker 1: for a pulse, he didn't cradle his child, he didn't 682 00:42:47,360 --> 00:42:50,000 Speaker 1: grab him and hug him, he didn't say a prayer 683 00:42:50,000 --> 00:42:53,160 Speaker 1: over him or nothing else. There's no I hear you 684 00:42:53,239 --> 00:42:55,960 Speaker 1: jumping in, Dale Carson, go ahead, Yeah, there's no way 685 00:42:56,000 --> 00:42:59,920 Speaker 1: that you would examine your son when they're part of 686 00:43:00,080 --> 00:43:03,400 Speaker 1: their skull is missing and they've been clearly shut with 687 00:43:03,480 --> 00:43:07,200 Speaker 1: a shotgun. Checking for the pulse as a ridiculous impulse. 688 00:43:07,680 --> 00:43:11,840 Speaker 1: I've seen these things happen before. People who love a 689 00:43:11,960 --> 00:43:15,480 Speaker 1: child or a person who's injured, they do exactly what 690 00:43:15,880 --> 00:43:19,359 Speaker 1: Cheryl said. They grab him, they shake them to try 691 00:43:19,400 --> 00:43:22,280 Speaker 1: to bring them back to life, and that puts blood 692 00:43:22,400 --> 00:43:27,279 Speaker 1: all over the individual who is trying to hold the 693 00:43:27,360 --> 00:43:32,680 Speaker 1: deceased loved one. And so that process probably never occurred. 694 00:43:32,840 --> 00:43:35,919 Speaker 1: And just because he's a lawyer doesn't mean he knows 695 00:43:35,960 --> 00:43:39,080 Speaker 1: how to perform the perfect crime. Joining me is former 696 00:43:39,280 --> 00:43:45,520 Speaker 1: US Marshal Service International Investigator Chief Inspector IRV brand Erv 697 00:43:45,880 --> 00:43:48,520 Speaker 1: What do you make of what you're hearing? Because I 698 00:43:48,600 --> 00:43:52,160 Speaker 1: believe that As soon as a jury comes back from lunch, 699 00:43:52,920 --> 00:43:57,239 Speaker 1: Paul Greer, special agent Paul Greer, is going to make 700 00:43:57,680 --> 00:44:01,880 Speaker 1: an analysis and comp hair what he finds it the 701 00:44:01,960 --> 00:44:07,479 Speaker 1: same cartridges tool markings to other cartridges. They're all the same, 702 00:44:08,239 --> 00:44:13,960 Speaker 1: and definitively, definitively tell the jury that both that that 703 00:44:14,120 --> 00:44:18,200 Speaker 1: night one of the murder weapons was a Murdog family gun. 704 00:44:19,560 --> 00:44:24,040 Speaker 1: It's the nail and the coffin for the defense. They're 705 00:44:24,040 --> 00:44:26,719 Speaker 1: setting it up. You were talking about it earlier. It 706 00:44:26,719 --> 00:44:31,200 Speaker 1: takes time to lay the foundation. It's tedious set times, 707 00:44:31,239 --> 00:44:34,680 Speaker 1: but it's necessary. And then when they come back from launch, 708 00:44:35,320 --> 00:44:38,839 Speaker 1: this is where the hammer drops. They're going to put 709 00:44:38,840 --> 00:44:41,600 Speaker 1: it all together and the jury's going to see it, 710 00:44:42,040 --> 00:44:45,440 Speaker 1: you know, for what it is. You start piecing it 711 00:44:45,480 --> 00:44:47,319 Speaker 1: together and you see it a little bit at a time, 712 00:44:47,360 --> 00:44:49,960 Speaker 1: a little bit at a time. Then the picture becomes 713 00:44:50,080 --> 00:44:53,320 Speaker 1: larger and larger, and this is what it's all leading 714 00:44:53,360 --> 00:44:56,480 Speaker 1: up to. Not over the wardrobe change from yesterday where 715 00:44:56,480 --> 00:45:00,000 Speaker 1: we see Alex and Murdog and one outfit in the afternoon, 716 00:45:00,520 --> 00:45:04,920 Speaker 1: and then immediately after the murders he has on a 717 00:45:05,040 --> 00:45:08,880 Speaker 1: very pristine white T shirt. There's a wardrobe change in there. Somewhere, 718 00:45:09,200 --> 00:45:13,200 Speaker 1: and coincidentally, in between the wardrobe change, a double murder 719 00:45:13,200 --> 00:45:15,160 Speaker 1: went down. I'd be curious to find out if the 720 00:45:15,200 --> 00:45:17,839 Speaker 1: clothing on the left of the screen has ever been 721 00:45:17,880 --> 00:45:22,680 Speaker 1: found by guys. Another son, in addition to Buster Murdog 722 00:45:23,560 --> 00:45:28,400 Speaker 1: lost his mother, And of course I'm talking about Gloria 723 00:45:28,680 --> 00:45:35,280 Speaker 1: Satterfield's son, the housekeeper that, by some accounts, was pushed 724 00:45:35,320 --> 00:45:39,280 Speaker 1: to her death at the Murdog home. By other accounts, 725 00:45:39,280 --> 00:45:43,799 Speaker 1: she somehow stumbled down the steps and died. Take a 726 00:45:43,880 --> 00:45:48,960 Speaker 1: listen to painful testimony on the stand in our cut eight. 727 00:45:49,440 --> 00:45:51,520 Speaker 1: Did your family advised you that there was some media 728 00:45:51,600 --> 00:45:55,279 Speaker 1: reporting about a settlement in the case? Yes, all right? 729 00:45:55,280 --> 00:45:57,360 Speaker 1: And at that time had you heard anything from Alec 730 00:45:57,440 --> 00:45:59,800 Speaker 1: or Corey or Chat or anybody about a settlement in 731 00:45:59,840 --> 00:46:03,359 Speaker 1: the No? Did you make a phone called Ellen? Yes? 732 00:46:04,239 --> 00:46:08,000 Speaker 1: And what month was that? I believe the last time 733 00:46:08,000 --> 00:46:10,680 Speaker 1: I caught Hillenden in June and twenty one, around the 734 00:46:10,680 --> 00:46:14,720 Speaker 1: time of the murders. Yes, And what did you ask him? 735 00:46:15,160 --> 00:46:17,160 Speaker 1: I can't believe when I asked him, but it was 736 00:46:17,200 --> 00:46:20,040 Speaker 1: still making fun. Rest and be ready to settle, you 737 00:46:20,080 --> 00:46:22,000 Speaker 1: know by the end of the year. Did he tell 738 00:46:22,040 --> 00:46:23,879 Speaker 1: you that they had already gotten a settlement for five 739 00:46:23,960 --> 00:46:26,920 Speaker 1: hundred and five thousand dollars. No, did he tell you 740 00:46:26,960 --> 00:46:29,280 Speaker 1: that they had already gotten a settlement for three point 741 00:46:29,360 --> 00:46:33,400 Speaker 1: eight million dollars? Now, had he ever told you that 742 00:46:33,480 --> 00:46:36,680 Speaker 1: there was an umbrella policy for five million dollars? Did 743 00:46:36,680 --> 00:46:39,200 Speaker 1: he give him permission to steal your money? No? We 744 00:46:39,280 --> 00:46:41,000 Speaker 1: have come to find out that there was a settlement 745 00:46:41,080 --> 00:46:44,560 Speaker 1: under the umbrella policy for three point eight million dollars. 746 00:46:44,640 --> 00:46:47,120 Speaker 1: Is that correct? Yes? And a large proportion of that 747 00:46:47,160 --> 00:46:49,799 Speaker 1: was averted by Ellik Murdoch. Is that right? Yes? Did 748 00:46:49,800 --> 00:46:54,359 Speaker 1: you ever get one cent from Ellik Murdoch when he 749 00:46:54,360 --> 00:46:57,839 Speaker 1: was still before all of this happened? Now? Did you 750 00:46:57,880 --> 00:47:04,160 Speaker 1: see those empty chairs behind the prosecutor? That's the jury 751 00:47:04,920 --> 00:47:08,239 Speaker 1: panel where they sit. They didn't hear that. So right 752 00:47:08,280 --> 00:47:11,680 Speaker 1: now we know more than the jury does. And I 753 00:47:11,800 --> 00:47:17,640 Speaker 1: also noticed, Kelly, did you notice that Michael Centerfield doesn't 754 00:47:17,680 --> 00:47:22,920 Speaker 1: look over at Alex Murdog. He is not looking at him. 755 00:47:24,040 --> 00:47:28,040 Speaker 1: That's telling me a lot. But when I heard him 756 00:47:28,040 --> 00:47:31,000 Speaker 1: talking about the settlement after his mother, and she was 757 00:47:31,040 --> 00:47:33,200 Speaker 1: a young woman, I wasn't she in her fifties. I 758 00:47:33,239 --> 00:47:35,520 Speaker 1: believe she had a whole life in front of her 759 00:47:37,080 --> 00:47:40,160 Speaker 1: just falls falls out of the blue. After twenty years 760 00:47:40,160 --> 00:47:44,120 Speaker 1: of working, there falls down the steps and dies. And 761 00:47:44,320 --> 00:47:47,680 Speaker 1: when you hear Paul murdog on the phone, he sounds 762 00:47:47,800 --> 00:47:52,520 Speaker 1: ice called there you go. There is Michael with his mother, 763 00:47:53,120 --> 00:47:58,200 Speaker 1: Miss Gloria, and he just looks so wounded on the 764 00:47:58,400 --> 00:48:01,960 Speaker 1: stand Kelly to louse his mother and then find out 765 00:48:02,000 --> 00:48:06,600 Speaker 1: the lawyer that they trusted screwed them over butt Good 766 00:48:06,600 --> 00:48:09,520 Speaker 1: to the tune of at least four point three to 767 00:48:09,600 --> 00:48:13,480 Speaker 1: five million and a possible nine point three five million, 768 00:48:13,840 --> 00:48:17,400 Speaker 1: took it all himself and spent it. I mean, talk 769 00:48:17,400 --> 00:48:21,480 Speaker 1: of her about heartbreaking Nancy. This man's mother was also 770 00:48:21,600 --> 00:48:24,919 Speaker 1: referred to as Paul Murdoch and Buster Murdoch's second mother, 771 00:48:25,000 --> 00:48:28,200 Speaker 1: Gloria Saderfield was with them as the nanny and as 772 00:48:28,239 --> 00:48:32,040 Speaker 1: the housekeeper, and her own son after she dies, does 773 00:48:32,120 --> 00:48:35,320 Speaker 1: not know that his family has gotten any money until 774 00:48:35,360 --> 00:48:40,160 Speaker 1: reading it in the news. Not one cent. They're millionaires, Callie. 775 00:48:40,200 --> 00:48:42,920 Speaker 1: And we learned today that Alec well we've already known this, 776 00:48:43,000 --> 00:48:44,960 Speaker 1: but what we heard in court today was that Alec 777 00:48:45,040 --> 00:48:48,360 Speaker 1: Murdoch used that Sadderfield settlement money to pay off his 778 00:48:48,600 --> 00:48:53,640 Speaker 1: loans at Palmeadow's statement. So it just turns my stomach. 779 00:48:54,239 --> 00:48:58,400 Speaker 1: How people get taken advantage of, how the rich and 780 00:48:58,520 --> 00:49:05,480 Speaker 1: the powerful te advantage of those less cunning than they are, 781 00:49:06,520 --> 00:49:10,239 Speaker 1: and they never have a voice. They didn't even realize 782 00:49:10,840 --> 00:49:15,000 Speaker 1: they were millionaires. But Murdog had taken it all and 783 00:49:15,239 --> 00:49:19,520 Speaker 1: was using it for his own expenses, his own bad 784 00:49:19,600 --> 00:49:22,920 Speaker 1: loans he couldn't pay back. And from what I understand, 785 00:49:23,320 --> 00:49:27,799 Speaker 1: there was an extremely strong bond between Gloria Saderfield and 786 00:49:27,960 --> 00:49:32,920 Speaker 1: this son, Michael Saderfield. And when I listen, correct me 787 00:49:32,960 --> 00:49:35,360 Speaker 1: if I'm wrong, everybody, because you've listened to it too. 788 00:49:35,680 --> 00:49:39,120 Speaker 1: The nine one one call, when Maggie and Paul were 789 00:49:39,440 --> 00:49:42,240 Speaker 1: calling nine one one about Gloria falling to her death. 790 00:49:43,000 --> 00:49:45,640 Speaker 1: I remember, Paul, I'm pretty sure I remember he said, 791 00:49:45,840 --> 00:49:48,480 Speaker 1: it's a lady that works for us. This is the 792 00:49:48,560 --> 00:49:53,000 Speaker 1: woman that helped raise him for Pete's sake, the woman 793 00:49:53,040 --> 00:49:58,280 Speaker 1: that works for us. Do you remember that, Cheryl McCollum. Vaguely, 794 00:49:58,440 --> 00:50:01,880 Speaker 1: But again it goes to where he thinks this person's 795 00:50:01,880 --> 00:50:05,799 Speaker 1: station is his. You know they obviously felt that way. 796 00:50:05,800 --> 00:50:08,359 Speaker 1: He did anyway, So when you look at who you're 797 00:50:08,400 --> 00:50:10,200 Speaker 1: going to steal from, and who you're just not going 798 00:50:10,239 --> 00:50:13,200 Speaker 1: to care about, you know, their children. It goes awright 799 00:50:13,400 --> 00:50:16,400 Speaker 1: with you know, this story that we've heard from the beginning. 800 00:50:16,719 --> 00:50:19,800 Speaker 1: He didn't care about anybody but himself. Nancy, let me imagine, 801 00:50:20,400 --> 00:50:24,120 Speaker 1: go ahead, imagined something about the crime scene. The fact 802 00:50:24,200 --> 00:50:27,400 Speaker 1: that that shotgun that is purportedly going to be used 803 00:50:27,640 --> 00:50:32,560 Speaker 1: to show connection to the shotgun shows that killed Paul. 804 00:50:33,440 --> 00:50:37,279 Speaker 1: You know, the fact that that shotgun was not discovered 805 00:50:37,480 --> 00:50:42,080 Speaker 1: there at the actual crime scene indicates that somebody took 806 00:50:42,120 --> 00:50:45,160 Speaker 1: it back and put it away where it ordinarily would 807 00:50:45,160 --> 00:50:48,240 Speaker 1: be found later. And the only person to have access 808 00:50:48,320 --> 00:50:51,280 Speaker 1: to that house after all of this was one person, 809 00:50:51,400 --> 00:50:54,920 Speaker 1: Alex Mernog. You know, neither weapon has been found, has 810 00:50:54,960 --> 00:50:58,719 Speaker 1: been recovered, Those weapons are long gone or brand. I 811 00:50:58,760 --> 00:51:01,320 Speaker 1: was about to ask you, you've not only worked with 812 00:51:01,440 --> 00:51:05,480 Speaker 1: US Marshal Service and the DOJ, but you have sat 813 00:51:05,520 --> 00:51:09,280 Speaker 1: by while many a jury is struck. And I guarantee 814 00:51:09,400 --> 00:51:14,560 Speaker 1: you that jury is not packed full of millionaires like 815 00:51:14,719 --> 00:51:21,600 Speaker 1: Alex Murdog. They are people like our families, workers, workers 816 00:51:21,600 --> 00:51:26,160 Speaker 1: that typically work for somebody else, And they haven't heard 817 00:51:26,239 --> 00:51:32,600 Speaker 1: one word about all the millions that Murdog gorged himself 818 00:51:32,680 --> 00:51:37,920 Speaker 1: on other people's money, and it all came to a head, 819 00:51:38,480 --> 00:51:42,840 Speaker 1: as you hear Sadderfield state. I called him and the 820 00:51:43,120 --> 00:51:45,279 Speaker 1: lawyer says, wasn't this right before the murders And he 821 00:51:45,320 --> 00:51:48,280 Speaker 1: says yes, And I was asking him about that settlement. 822 00:51:48,320 --> 00:51:51,200 Speaker 1: I read about it in the paper. It was all 823 00:51:51,320 --> 00:51:55,560 Speaker 1: coming to a head, earth Mancy. The answer to all 824 00:51:55,640 --> 00:52:00,680 Speaker 1: questions is money. We know this. That's that's where the 825 00:52:00,719 --> 00:52:03,880 Speaker 1: trail leads. It's really going to depend on what the 826 00:52:03,920 --> 00:52:11,000 Speaker 1: court allows in on this testimony of bad acts by 827 00:52:11,000 --> 00:52:16,839 Speaker 1: the defendant. When the defense opens the door and the 828 00:52:16,840 --> 00:52:20,120 Speaker 1: state walks through and can start bringing this type of 829 00:52:20,160 --> 00:52:25,080 Speaker 1: evidence in, and it shows just the amount of greed. 830 00:52:26,160 --> 00:52:30,480 Speaker 1: And it's always the answer, every single time. It's always 831 00:52:30,480 --> 00:52:32,840 Speaker 1: about money. And they'll say it's about money in this 832 00:52:33,000 --> 00:52:36,360 Speaker 1: kiss Kelly Skiing, is it true that the Murdoch family 833 00:52:36,480 --> 00:52:39,920 Speaker 1: was absent when the jury was absent even though Murdoch 834 00:52:40,120 --> 00:52:42,880 Speaker 1: was in there? That's right, Nancy. I found that very strange. 835 00:52:43,000 --> 00:52:46,960 Speaker 1: Yesterday and today only Alec Murdoch's sister was there when 836 00:52:46,960 --> 00:52:49,640 Speaker 1: the jury wasn't present, and then right before the jury 837 00:52:49,719 --> 00:52:53,120 Speaker 1: is brought in each day, his brothers, his son and 838 00:52:53,200 --> 00:52:57,320 Speaker 1: his son's girlfriend file right back into the court. Now, Kelly, 839 00:52:57,560 --> 00:53:01,040 Speaker 1: you were with me when we left the courthouse and 840 00:53:01,280 --> 00:53:03,520 Speaker 1: we were looking for a place to eat dinner. It 841 00:53:03,560 --> 00:53:08,840 Speaker 1: was getting late, and we came upon people that told 842 00:53:08,960 --> 00:53:15,240 Speaker 1: us the Murdoch family is leaving. I guessed during lunch, 843 00:53:15,719 --> 00:53:20,840 Speaker 1: or at least after court and staying at some mansion 844 00:53:20,880 --> 00:53:25,000 Speaker 1: that's costing several thousand dollars a day, and I guess 845 00:53:25,080 --> 00:53:31,120 Speaker 1: eating lunch there away from prying eyes where they can 846 00:53:31,440 --> 00:53:35,600 Speaker 1: pow wow about what's going down. So clearly they knew 847 00:53:35,880 --> 00:53:38,120 Speaker 1: there was nobody to impress. The jury wasn't going to 848 00:53:38,160 --> 00:53:42,200 Speaker 1: be there, and they didn't show up just for Alex Murdoch, 849 00:53:42,320 --> 00:53:45,640 Speaker 1: who was there but only came in moments before the 850 00:53:45,760 --> 00:53:49,239 Speaker 1: jury came in. And I understanding this correctly, that's right. 851 00:53:49,280 --> 00:53:52,600 Speaker 1: And I've also noticed that Alec Murdock's demeanor is very 852 00:53:52,640 --> 00:53:54,960 Speaker 1: different when the jury is there compared to when they 853 00:53:54,960 --> 00:53:57,480 Speaker 1: are not there. So, when the jury is not in 854 00:53:57,520 --> 00:54:00,840 Speaker 1: the room and the prosecution is going through all of 855 00:54:00,840 --> 00:54:04,360 Speaker 1: these alleged financial crimes, Alec Murdock is pointing at the 856 00:54:04,400 --> 00:54:08,080 Speaker 1: display screen, conferring with his lawyers, passing notes back and forth. 857 00:54:08,400 --> 00:54:11,680 Speaker 1: When the jury is there, his head is down and 858 00:54:11,719 --> 00:54:15,040 Speaker 1: he rocks back and forth, and he's very focused. But 859 00:54:15,120 --> 00:54:18,480 Speaker 1: when they are not there, I see a different Alec Murdoch. 860 00:54:18,719 --> 00:54:22,800 Speaker 1: He ever shed one tier when the jury's not there, Kelly, 861 00:54:23,120 --> 00:54:26,560 Speaker 1: not that I can see, Nancy, not that I can see. However, 862 00:54:26,600 --> 00:54:30,040 Speaker 1: when Chris Wilson was on the stand yesterday, yes when 863 00:54:30,120 --> 00:54:32,640 Speaker 1: Chris Wilson was on the stand yesterday, Alec Murdock was 864 00:54:32,719 --> 00:54:36,520 Speaker 1: very upset. Did he cry? Yes, he had? He had 865 00:54:36,640 --> 00:54:39,520 Speaker 1: was wiping his eyes with tissues, and that was with 866 00:54:39,640 --> 00:54:42,440 Speaker 1: no jury present. Correct. But I think what we have 867 00:54:42,520 --> 00:54:45,200 Speaker 1: to think about here is this is a personal relationship 868 00:54:45,320 --> 00:54:48,560 Speaker 1: that Alec Murdock has had since the eighties unraveling in 869 00:54:48,600 --> 00:54:51,560 Speaker 1: front of his eyes. He hadn't seen Chris Wilson since 870 00:54:51,640 --> 00:54:54,960 Speaker 1: that conversation at his parents' house. He texted Chris Wilson, 871 00:54:55,000 --> 00:54:57,440 Speaker 1: he wrote a letter to Chris Wilson. So I'm not 872 00:54:57,520 --> 00:55:01,960 Speaker 1: sure exactly what those tears were four, but I definitely 873 00:55:02,000 --> 00:55:04,360 Speaker 1: did see them yesterday when the jury wasn't there. However, 874 00:55:04,360 --> 00:55:07,319 Speaker 1: you haven't seen them through the other financial crimes that 875 00:55:07,320 --> 00:55:11,680 Speaker 1: are being laid out. M He knows Chris Wilson has 876 00:55:11,760 --> 00:55:14,120 Speaker 1: known him for years and years and years, and Chris 877 00:55:14,120 --> 00:55:18,200 Speaker 1: Wilson himself was tearing up on the stand over the 878 00:55:18,239 --> 00:55:22,040 Speaker 1: betrayal by one of his best friends, Alex Murdog. I 879 00:55:22,080 --> 00:55:25,720 Speaker 1: could see that. Well, okay, here's two words of wisdom 880 00:55:25,760 --> 00:55:30,720 Speaker 1: to the defense. Number one, teach Harpoolian, the defense lawyer, 881 00:55:30,840 --> 00:55:33,480 Speaker 1: not to yawn in front of the jury, and teach 882 00:55:33,560 --> 00:55:37,279 Speaker 1: him how to use an iPhone. And number two, be 883 00:55:37,400 --> 00:55:42,000 Speaker 1: prepared to, huh, give Alex Murdog the elbow when you 884 00:55:42,040 --> 00:55:45,600 Speaker 1: need him to turn on the waterworks in front of 885 00:55:45,640 --> 00:55:48,520 Speaker 1: the jury. And maybe the jury's not watching everything, but 886 00:55:48,600 --> 00:55:52,279 Speaker 1: guess what we are. We're getting ready to go back 887 00:55:52,280 --> 00:55:55,080 Speaker 1: in the courtroom. Thank you for being with us during 888 00:55:55,080 --> 00:55:57,520 Speaker 1: the lunch break. Let's head straight back in and see 889 00:55:57,719 --> 00:56:00,080 Speaker 1: who the next witness will be. Thank you for being 890 00:56:00,080 --> 00:56:06,960 Speaker 1: with us, Nancy Grace signing off, goodbye friendsh