WEBVTT - Why Fox Television Stations Have Embraced Trial and Error in Daytime 0:00:06.480 --> 0:00:11.000 Welcome to Strictly Business Varieties weekly podcast featuring conversations with 0:00:11.039 --> 0:00:14.640 industry leaders about the business of media and entertainment. I'm 0:00:14.680 --> 0:00:18.000 Andrew Wallenstein, Varieties co editor in chief and co host 0:00:18.120 --> 0:00:22.840 of this podcast with Cynthia Littleton, Variety Business Editor. Today's 0:00:22.880 --> 0:00:26.920 guest is Frank Sica, Executive VP of Programming for Fox 0:00:26.960 --> 0:00:30.880 TV Stations. Frank is a nearly thirty year veteran of Fox, 0:00:30.880 --> 0:00:33.279 and he has been calling the shots on programming for 0:00:33.320 --> 0:00:35.559 the O and O group for more than a decade. 0:00:36.120 --> 0:00:40.320 In his conversation with Cynthia, Frank is characteristically blunt about 0:00:40.320 --> 0:00:43.400 the challenges that local TV stations face in the era 0:00:43.440 --> 0:00:48.560 of fragmentation, particularly in daytime. He explains Fox's strategy of 0:00:48.680 --> 0:00:52.919 conducting regional tests of prospective new syndicated shows and how 0:00:52.960 --> 0:00:56.480 that's benefited the group. Frank also gives his perspective and 0:00:56.520 --> 0:00:58.760 how life has changed that Fox since most of the 0:00:58.800 --> 0:01:05.600 company was sold to is n Franks, executive vice president 0:01:05.600 --> 0:01:09.559 of Programming for Fox Television Stations, in a twenty eight 0:01:09.640 --> 0:01:13.959 year and counting Fox veteran, Thank you for stopping by. 0:01:14.280 --> 0:01:16.679 My pleasure, Thanks thanks for having me. Nice to be 0:01:16.720 --> 0:01:19.800 back in New York Um. Nice to have a beautiful 0:01:19.880 --> 0:01:22.800 view in this great new building. So thanks for thanks 0:01:22.800 --> 0:01:25.200 for inviting us. Things are good here down in what 0:01:25.240 --> 0:01:27.880 do they call it Midtown East these days? Here, Yeah, 0:01:27.880 --> 0:01:30.000 it's it's a little rainy and overcast, but it's nice. 0:01:30.000 --> 0:01:32.039 It's a beautiful fall in New York day. Let's talk 0:01:32.080 --> 0:01:35.039 about the programming that is coming out of Fox Television stations. 0:01:35.200 --> 0:01:37.560 For the last couple of years, you've clearly been on 0:01:37.600 --> 0:01:40.959 a ramp up of doing a lot more in house development, 0:01:41.080 --> 0:01:44.160 a lot of some very adventurous formats, trying to break 0:01:44.200 --> 0:01:47.200 the mold. You are known for being very candid in 0:01:47.280 --> 0:01:51.000 your assessment of shows and what is needed, what kind 0:01:51.000 --> 0:01:54.880 of fresh thinking and fresh ideas are needed in daytime, 0:01:54.920 --> 0:01:58.440 which I think everybody would agree is a very challenging, 0:01:59.560 --> 0:02:02.640 challenging day part to program to right now, with the 0:02:02.680 --> 0:02:06.080 slice of the audience being so tiny and spread among 0:02:06.200 --> 0:02:09.720 so many outlets, can you talk about sort of what 0:02:09.720 --> 0:02:13.680 what inspired you guys to really invest in your own 0:02:14.040 --> 0:02:17.440 original content, original development and and this is something that 0:02:17.480 --> 0:02:21.960 started even before the company underwent the separation with Disney. 0:02:22.000 --> 0:02:23.800 This started a couple of years ago at least, I 0:02:23.800 --> 0:02:26.320 mean I think there always was. For a while, twenty 0:02:26.480 --> 0:02:29.440 Television you know, reported to us, and so there were 0:02:29.480 --> 0:02:33.919 always projects in development, development and being produced. I think, um, 0:02:33.960 --> 0:02:37.800 you know, we learned a long time ago that um, 0:02:38.600 --> 0:02:40.720 he was important to produce some of our own stuff, 0:02:40.720 --> 0:02:43.200 but be to also realized that we couldn't do it 0:02:43.240 --> 0:02:46.640 all ourselves, and that a balance was very very important. 0:02:46.680 --> 0:02:48.840 And I won't go through the list of projects that 0:02:48.880 --> 0:02:52.280 had to fail before we realized we couldn't do it 0:02:52.280 --> 0:02:56.320 all ourselves, but um, that is a fact. So you know, 0:02:56.360 --> 0:03:00.320 as much as we're you know, doing our own programming, UM, 0:03:00.360 --> 0:03:02.639 you know, the partnerships we have with out side distributors 0:03:02.639 --> 0:03:06.040 are more important than ever as well, because there's just 0:03:06.160 --> 0:03:08.560 less of them, you know. And you know, again we 0:03:08.600 --> 0:03:11.119 have a lot of shelf space to fill across two 0:03:11.120 --> 0:03:13.600 stations and a lot of big markets. So you know, 0:03:13.720 --> 0:03:16.200 that sort of balance between what we do ourselves and 0:03:16.600 --> 0:03:18.360 you know, what we bring in from the outside is 0:03:18.480 --> 0:03:22.560 um is more important than ever, and as well as 0:03:22.600 --> 0:03:25.040 the idea that we need to do more and take 0:03:25.080 --> 0:03:28.800 more swings than ever. I mean, lest I would say, 0:03:29.120 --> 0:03:31.359 over the last decade or so, you know, we were 0:03:31.400 --> 0:03:33.480 scratching our heads all the time, like why did why 0:03:33.520 --> 0:03:36.520 do things only happen in September? Or why do you 0:03:36.560 --> 0:03:38.800 know failed shows stay on for the year if not 0:03:38.920 --> 0:03:40.880 two years? You know, we just didn't understand that. We 0:03:40.920 --> 0:03:43.800 certainly think it contributed to a lot of our ratings erosion. 0:03:44.440 --> 0:03:47.600 Um And I think that's true with our competitors as well. 0:03:47.680 --> 0:03:50.040 So the idea of trying to figure out new ways 0:03:50.080 --> 0:03:53.960 to bring more shows to the table for whatever length 0:03:53.960 --> 0:03:57.120 of time, three weeks, five weeks, and god knows these 0:03:57.160 --> 0:04:00.440 days on cable, you know, the runs are six episodes, 0:04:00.480 --> 0:04:03.720 eight episodes, you know, unheard of a decade ago, fifteen 0:04:03.760 --> 0:04:06.880 years ago, it's now this this the standard. Even in broadcast, 0:04:07.240 --> 0:04:12.840 you know, you don't see as many full episode orders. Um, 0:04:12.920 --> 0:04:14.880 So why should that be any different in what we do? 0:04:15.040 --> 0:04:17.120 And I think in the end it comes down to 0:04:17.240 --> 0:04:20.240 just having the right partners who are willing to think differently, 0:04:20.720 --> 0:04:25.640 and that has been a challenge in certain circumstances. But um, overall, 0:04:25.680 --> 0:04:28.039 I think people are starting to see that it's better 0:04:28.040 --> 0:04:31.919 to take a look at more things and eureka, you know, 0:04:31.960 --> 0:04:35.560 potentially lose less money by even doing that, um than 0:04:35.680 --> 0:04:38.680 taking these gigantic swings and and you know, and really 0:04:38.760 --> 0:04:41.200 hurting the bottom line and having stations you know, fail 0:04:41.360 --> 0:04:44.520 and have time periods fail Now doesn't mean you can't 0:04:44.560 --> 0:04:47.680 have big swings. And we've seen enough of those in 0:04:47.720 --> 0:04:49.839 the last few years. And there's a couple now that 0:04:49.880 --> 0:04:52.240 actually I think of doing, you know, sort of okay, 0:04:52.279 --> 0:04:56.320 and that's great for the business, but I think we 0:04:56.360 --> 0:04:59.120 sort of start with this volume. We want to do 0:04:59.160 --> 0:05:00.800 as many things we can and so twelve months a 0:05:00.880 --> 0:05:04.679 year we all have new stuff and and that's actually 0:05:04.880 --> 0:05:09.600 my goal, you know, Um, especially now without a syndication 0:05:09.640 --> 0:05:13.200 company reporting to us, which has been true for a 0:05:13.200 --> 0:05:18.560 few years. Um, you know, without that sort of how 0:05:18.600 --> 0:05:22.400 are they doing idea? Um, you know, there's no other 0:05:22.440 --> 0:05:24.840 concerns other than trying to get as much first run 0:05:24.960 --> 0:05:28.040 stuff on as possible. At least for me, that's the 0:05:28.160 --> 0:05:30.680 big deal. And you and Fox has been very much 0:05:30.760 --> 0:05:35.320 pioneer in in in developing concepts and as you say, 0:05:35.320 --> 0:05:37.920 putting them on for short runs three weeks, five weeks 0:05:38.000 --> 0:05:40.440 and a couple of markets so you can just kind 0:05:40.440 --> 0:05:43.039 of test and get a sense of the pulse of 0:05:43.080 --> 0:05:46.159 the show and how people, how people respond to the talent, 0:05:46.640 --> 0:05:50.359 and you talk about are there difficult things in terms 0:05:50.360 --> 0:05:54.360 of like structuring contracts and deals for a three week 0:05:54.440 --> 0:05:56.479 run a five week run. Is that kind of what 0:05:56.480 --> 0:05:58.640 what you were saying, when you need partners that will 0:05:58.680 --> 0:06:01.400 be more open up, like you know, they you know, 0:06:01.440 --> 0:06:04.719 the partners need to understand the endgame, and you know, 0:06:04.760 --> 0:06:06.800 the the end game is both of us have a hit. 0:06:07.440 --> 0:06:10.160 You know, how we get there has sort of changed, 0:06:10.440 --> 0:06:15.400 I think, And uh, you know, it's for years people said, 0:06:15.440 --> 0:06:17.480 well it's a one in twenty business. You know, you 0:06:17.520 --> 0:06:19.320 known one out of twenty, you know goes to year 0:06:19.360 --> 0:06:21.920 two or year three. Well you know, well then let's 0:06:21.920 --> 0:06:24.279 do sixty of them, you know, and and you know, 0:06:24.279 --> 0:06:27.440 and try to improve that batting average. But for sure, 0:06:27.600 --> 0:06:32.280 you know, structurally, uh, it can get challenging. But if 0:06:32.320 --> 0:06:35.680 if both sides have the same sort of endgame, you 0:06:35.720 --> 0:06:39.240 can get to it um And that's been really encouraging 0:06:39.360 --> 0:06:42.000 over the last couple of years, especially where you know, 0:06:42.080 --> 0:06:46.600 Jerry O'Connell filled in within those wendy time periods for us, 0:06:46.720 --> 0:06:49.479 which was just terrific because that's a real test. Now 0:06:49.560 --> 0:06:52.680 that's not me picking four markets saying, you know and 0:06:52.839 --> 0:06:56.520 praying that this is sort of a real look at 0:06:56.560 --> 0:07:03.479 a well produced television program across the country. Um, well, 0:07:03.480 --> 0:07:05.640 that's a real test. And by the way, we all 0:07:05.640 --> 0:07:08.080 got more first front programming as a result of it, 0:07:08.200 --> 0:07:11.120 So right, and the Wendy Williams Show, which is kind 0:07:11.120 --> 0:07:13.640 of the poster child for this process. That Wendy Williams 0:07:13.680 --> 0:07:17.600 began as a limited test over the summer and then 0:07:18.200 --> 0:07:21.840 clearly you saw, you know, the indications were very positive. 0:07:22.160 --> 0:07:24.320 You went national and then this was in partnership with 0:07:24.400 --> 0:07:27.280 lions Gate and deb Mar Mercury. You went national and 0:07:27.360 --> 0:07:31.600 here ten years later, it's it's still very French. It 0:07:31.640 --> 0:07:33.760 was fun. A couple of weeks ago, we had the 0:07:33.760 --> 0:07:37.360 star dedication, you know, on the on the Hollywood Walk 0:07:37.360 --> 0:07:41.720 of Fame and uh, um, you know, we're lucky enough 0:07:41.760 --> 0:07:43.600 to be there for that, and that sort of was 0:07:43.680 --> 0:07:46.520 fun to think about how the test was sort of 0:07:46.560 --> 0:07:50.120 a chair and a camera, a couple of drapes behind her, 0:07:50.280 --> 0:07:53.320 you know, in a disco bawl. And uh, you know, 0:07:53.400 --> 0:07:56.280 ten years later, she's she's on the Walk of Fame. 0:07:56.400 --> 0:07:59.360 So we're we're happy and for her and proud of her. 0:08:00.000 --> 0:08:03.840 What he works harder. Um, but when I think about 0:08:03.840 --> 0:08:07.040 all the projects we've done, since then. It just goes 0:08:07.120 --> 0:08:09.240 to show how hard it is to do right, you 0:08:09.280 --> 0:08:12.120 know it is it is. It is tough to do 0:08:12.320 --> 0:08:14.880 what other than ratings. And I'm curious if there are 0:08:15.520 --> 0:08:18.320 markets outside of the obvious New York at a Chicago 0:08:18.600 --> 0:08:20.600 that you like to go to to kind of get 0:08:20.600 --> 0:08:24.840 a representative sense of good question. I mean, it's it's 0:08:24.880 --> 0:08:29.200 funny because, um, you know this, many years into doing this, 0:08:29.880 --> 0:08:32.200 we realize there are certain stations we can put anything 0:08:32.240 --> 0:08:35.600 on and it'll and it'll rate. You know, I don't 0:08:35.679 --> 0:08:39.000 I don't need to get specific about that, but you 0:08:39.040 --> 0:08:41.680 know there there we you know, are in our Dallas 0:08:41.720 --> 0:08:44.280 station you know has never had a test that didn't 0:08:44.280 --> 0:08:46.760 do good ratings. Detroit, you know there's a there's a 0:08:46.760 --> 0:08:49.200 whole handful of them. So you know, you you'll put 0:08:49.240 --> 0:08:53.520 those on because you'll see if a lot of people 0:08:53.520 --> 0:08:56.640 bail from whatever the leading might be. It's obvious maybe 0:08:56.640 --> 0:08:59.560 there's an issue, but um, you know a lot of 0:08:59.559 --> 0:09:01.480 what we want look at is to help help the 0:09:02.000 --> 0:09:05.880 top markets. And and you know in New York, Uh, 0:09:06.080 --> 0:09:10.199 to me, is is the most important if you can, 0:09:10.320 --> 0:09:12.320 if you can, you know, make some hay there and 0:09:12.320 --> 0:09:14.160 then after that Los Angeles. But again in l A 0:09:14.200 --> 0:09:17.160 there's a so few rating points around that it's it's 0:09:17.440 --> 0:09:20.800 harder to judge. Um New York, there are still platforms 0:09:20.800 --> 0:09:23.200 where you can put things and really judge, you know, 0:09:23.240 --> 0:09:26.680 without saying, you know, names of shows that failed. We 0:09:26.720 --> 0:09:29.839 had one where, you know, got a great lead in 0:09:31.600 --> 0:09:35.679 people ran, they didn't walk away from the set, they right, 0:09:35.720 --> 0:09:38.640 and then they came back, you know, and an hour later. 0:09:39.280 --> 0:09:42.160 So as long as we can get those kind of 0:09:42.160 --> 0:09:44.840 reads in a in a big market like this in 0:09:44.880 --> 0:09:47.400 New York, you know, we can get it real, a 0:09:47.440 --> 0:09:49.800 real taste of it. And your savings in a test 0:09:49.920 --> 0:09:53.559 if you were too, if you were to have roll 0:09:53.640 --> 0:09:56.080 the dice on a national rollout, your savings in the 0:09:56.080 --> 0:10:01.160 test can be measured in seven figures. Yes, so absolutely, 0:10:01.280 --> 0:10:04.200 and and it's funny because we've been pitched shows that 0:10:04.240 --> 0:10:07.120 we're supposed to be. If you asked the distributor national 0:10:07.160 --> 0:10:09.719 launches designed for national launchs, we refused to do that, 0:10:10.000 --> 0:10:14.160 have done tests failed, and then said, boy, what a 0:10:14.160 --> 0:10:18.200 good thing. You're welcome exactly that that we didn't go 0:10:18.320 --> 0:10:21.120 forward nationally with that. You know, there's a difference between 0:10:21.600 --> 0:10:25.240 selling something because you can and selling something because it's 0:10:25.240 --> 0:10:28.520 the right project or that it fits in stations lineup 0:10:28.520 --> 0:10:32.320 so that the marketplace wants it, you know, So you know, 0:10:32.880 --> 0:10:34.880 it's all a big learning process and that and that's 0:10:35.160 --> 0:10:37.000 you know, part of the fun of it. And you're 0:10:37.000 --> 0:10:39.199 one of your pritors. This fall has been the national 0:10:39.280 --> 0:10:42.840 rollout of Words or Less, a game show hosted by 0:10:42.880 --> 0:10:46.000 Meredith Vieira. It's a real kind of a unicorn in 0:10:46.400 --> 0:10:49.319 an original format. My god, in this day and age, 0:10:49.360 --> 0:10:52.480 that's a headline unto itself. And getting somebody like Meredith, 0:10:52.640 --> 0:10:57.920 who you know, incredibly accomplished, respected, well known TV personality, 0:10:58.000 --> 0:11:00.160 that's got to be, you know, kind of a kind 0:11:00.160 --> 0:11:03.040 of a nice perfect storm for you, no question. And 0:11:03.040 --> 0:11:06.800 and I remember that test. I remember that pitch. I 0:11:06.880 --> 0:11:12.320 give Steven Brown and Jack Abernathy were perhaps more supportive 0:11:12.320 --> 0:11:15.600 of the actual idea than even I was, because I 0:11:15.600 --> 0:11:19.480 think game show pitches play well in the room. That's 0:11:19.480 --> 0:11:21.559 sort of a new way to come and pitch. Game 0:11:21.600 --> 0:11:24.160 shows is like set up a whole thing and play 0:11:25.400 --> 0:11:28.480 and that's great, But that doesn't mean anybody's gonna want 0:11:28.480 --> 0:11:32.719 to watch, you know, um, But we thought there was 0:11:32.800 --> 0:11:35.440 enough there in the actual game Um, you know, it 0:11:35.480 --> 0:11:38.320 had its success as a board game, and you know 0:11:38.840 --> 0:11:42.560 that was great, but UM really attaching mereth to it. 0:11:42.760 --> 0:11:45.600 I give Steven credit for that. UM really sort of 0:11:45.679 --> 0:11:48.040 up the antie on that. And I remember the list 0:11:48.040 --> 0:11:51.000 of hosts that that they were sort of considering, and 0:11:51.240 --> 0:11:53.200 there was some really good people in there. But she 0:11:53.200 --> 0:11:57.240 she was a game changer as far as no pun intended. UM, 0:11:57.360 --> 0:11:59.800 that was a big deal bringing her in and and 0:12:00.080 --> 0:12:02.640 you know, she was super professional with sort of a 0:12:02.679 --> 0:12:05.800 short runway to ramp up, you know, for the the 0:12:05.800 --> 0:12:08.640 original test and uh. And it's been nothing but a 0:12:08.679 --> 0:12:13.199 pleasure to work with h on the show itself. Which interestingly, 0:12:13.200 --> 0:12:15.160 another great thing about this format is you can wrap 0:12:15.200 --> 0:12:17.680 it in a couple of months for the year and 0:12:17.679 --> 0:12:20.199 and you know that keeps the costs in this hemisphere, 0:12:20.679 --> 0:12:23.720 which is which is nice. UM. So we're real happy 0:12:23.760 --> 0:12:27.160 with with the job. And in success, you'll own that format. 0:12:27.200 --> 0:12:30.480 That format will be part of last Yeah. In fact, 0:12:30.480 --> 0:12:33.760 from what I'm told, there's interest in the format UM 0:12:33.800 --> 0:12:36.040 in other countries, in a couple of other countries. So 0:12:36.280 --> 0:12:38.439 you know, any anything we could do to sort of 0:12:38.480 --> 0:12:42.200 bolster the situation would be terrific. But Yeah, that one's ours, 0:12:42.480 --> 0:12:48.360 which we're happy about. Um. You talked about it a 0:12:48.440 --> 0:12:50.720 little bit. But you know, one of the hard things 0:12:50.720 --> 0:12:54.000 about programming daytime is, as you said, what you know 0:12:54.120 --> 0:12:57.880 is a point three cancelation and a point five is renewed. 0:12:58.520 --> 0:13:02.000 The marketplace in daytime is so diffuse across so many 0:13:02.040 --> 0:13:05.800 platforms that it's it's got to be so hard to 0:13:05.840 --> 0:13:07.760 be it's gotta be so hard to program. Not that 0:13:07.800 --> 0:13:10.200 it was ever easy to program, but to get a 0:13:10.200 --> 0:13:11.880 sense of what's working and what people are going to 0:13:11.960 --> 0:13:15.120 respond to with the numbers being some microscript yeah, I mean, 0:13:15.440 --> 0:13:18.280 you know, and you know, unfortunately, the reality is a 0:13:18.280 --> 0:13:22.679 lot of its economics. Um. You know, there are certain 0:13:22.840 --> 0:13:25.439 rating levels that a distributor can make money at nationally, 0:13:25.480 --> 0:13:29.000 and there's certain ones that that there aren't. Um and 0:13:29.000 --> 0:13:31.640 and that is that is the struggle. I think that 0:13:32.360 --> 0:13:34.200 the good news is over the last few years there 0:13:34.200 --> 0:13:38.240 seems to be more projects being launched and and being attempted, 0:13:38.320 --> 0:13:41.320 which I mean, that's the hope. I mean that that's 0:13:41.360 --> 0:13:44.480 what will save us, is is that idea that like 0:13:44.520 --> 0:13:49.480 people continue to take swings, and you're right there there 0:13:49.480 --> 0:13:52.560 are It gets to a to a sort of a 0:13:52.600 --> 0:13:54.440 thin level. You're they are looking at a couple of 0:13:54.480 --> 0:13:58.360 tents you know here are there particularly nationally? Um? And 0:13:58.800 --> 0:14:01.320 from there you have to disaw, you know, and what 0:14:01.400 --> 0:14:04.800 you have to decide is, you know, why is this 0:14:04.840 --> 0:14:08.240 going to get better? Because I think it's very easy 0:14:08.280 --> 0:14:10.959 for anybody to talk themselves into why something can stay on. 0:14:11.240 --> 0:14:12.880 It's a good idea that I think we should keep 0:14:12.920 --> 0:14:15.280 this on because we can. We should keep this on. 0:14:16.000 --> 0:14:18.320 But why would you do it if you didn't really 0:14:18.320 --> 0:14:20.120 think it was going to get better? And why is 0:14:20.120 --> 0:14:24.920 it going to get better? You know? What's the plan here? So? Um? 0:14:25.000 --> 0:14:29.720 You know all that all of it plays in looks around. 0:14:29.720 --> 0:14:31.520 I I still love to go back to the show 0:14:31.560 --> 0:14:33.520 and does it fit in our lineup? We we did 0:14:33.600 --> 0:14:36.760 one um recently where it just was something that just 0:14:36.840 --> 0:14:40.360 did not fit in what we do and and it 0:14:40.440 --> 0:14:42.760 was clear, it was so clear, And what we learned 0:14:42.760 --> 0:14:44.480 from it is that yet we have to be broader. 0:14:44.520 --> 0:14:46.960 We really have to pay attention to who's watching our stations. 0:14:47.000 --> 0:14:50.920 It sounds obvious, but it doesn't always happen, um and 0:14:50.920 --> 0:14:54.400 and program to those people and and uh, you know 0:14:54.400 --> 0:14:57.160 which means for us anyway a little broader or a 0:14:57.200 --> 0:14:59.320 lot broader is really what we have to look at. 0:14:59.720 --> 0:15:02.720 Do you differentiate regionally much? Because you have such a 0:15:02.800 --> 0:15:04.840 large group covering so many markets, it's got to be 0:15:04.840 --> 0:15:06.600 hard to find something that's gonna work in New York 0:15:06.600 --> 0:15:09.560 and also work in Dallas and also work in San Francisco. Yeah, 0:15:09.640 --> 0:15:11.400 I mean we don't. We don't sort of look that 0:15:11.440 --> 0:15:15.280 way because the good shows will work everywhere, the hits 0:15:15.320 --> 0:15:20.720 will work everywhere. But you have to you know, no, 0:15:21.160 --> 0:15:23.640 I think you have to know that they can work 0:15:23.640 --> 0:15:26.600 in a New York or in l A or San Francisco, 0:15:26.720 --> 0:15:28.640 because you're not gonna be able to produce them into 0:15:28.680 --> 0:15:31.320 a national show if you're not getting them in those 0:15:31.400 --> 0:15:33.400 kind of markets. I think, you know, a lot of 0:15:33.400 --> 0:15:36.080 our competitors that don't have those big markets, the groups 0:15:36.120 --> 0:15:38.360 that sort of you know, have gone into production and 0:15:38.480 --> 0:15:42.000 done shows. This did well in Memphis and then, but 0:15:42.600 --> 0:15:45.640 that's not gonna matter, you know, if you think you're 0:15:45.640 --> 0:15:47.960 going to go national, and so we really need to 0:15:48.000 --> 0:15:51.600 know that. And uh, you know, I think we've done 0:15:51.640 --> 0:15:54.320 some sort of regional things or teach some things up 0:15:54.360 --> 0:15:58.160 for certain markets. Um years ago, we would do court 0:15:58.200 --> 0:16:01.600 shows as tests in court blocks, and you know, New 0:16:01.640 --> 0:16:03.760 York wasn't really doing that well at the time, and 0:16:03.800 --> 0:16:05.680 so we didn't use New York. It was like, if 0:16:05.680 --> 0:16:07.560 you could fit in a court block, though it should work. 0:16:07.680 --> 0:16:10.840 You know, I can't remember the last test we did. 0:16:10.920 --> 0:16:13.080 It didn't include New York. Now, you know, I think 0:16:13.080 --> 0:16:16.360 it's really important. And again the hits, you can go 0:16:16.400 --> 0:16:18.840 back a hundred years. Little Seinfeld wasn't gonna work because 0:16:18.840 --> 0:16:21.440 it's a New York show, and you know, Judge Judy 0:16:21.480 --> 0:16:23.720 is not gonna work in African American markets, and and 0:16:23.960 --> 0:16:26.360 you know, you hear all these things, but a good 0:16:26.360 --> 0:16:29.600 show transcends all of it. We're just a couple of 0:16:29.640 --> 0:16:32.880 months out from the traditional sort of pivot point of 0:16:32.920 --> 0:16:36.640 the syndication year, which is January. Obviously a little anachronistic 0:16:36.720 --> 0:16:39.440 in the world that we live in, especially is for 0:16:39.600 --> 0:16:42.800 the reasons you were just saying, but it is nonetheless 0:16:42.840 --> 0:16:44.320 it is it is sort of a time of year 0:16:44.360 --> 0:16:47.640 when when we start to get a sense of what 0:16:47.880 --> 0:16:49.640 is going to be coming for the fall and what 0:16:49.760 --> 0:16:51.480 you know, what may or may not be coming back 0:16:51.800 --> 0:16:54.280 that could be on the fence. This year we've seen, 0:16:54.960 --> 0:16:58.040 to my mind, it seems like the the some of 0:16:58.080 --> 0:17:01.080 the larger distributors that are the First Run business have 0:17:01.120 --> 0:17:03.800 a little more ambition this year. We've got some big 0:17:03.840 --> 0:17:06.960 projects with Drew barrymore with Nick Cannon, some talk shows. 0:17:06.960 --> 0:17:10.680 We're seeing some different formats of cooking and different kinds 0:17:10.680 --> 0:17:13.520 of games. What do you think, since you deal with 0:17:13.560 --> 0:17:16.119 all of the distributors, what do you think is accounting 0:17:16.160 --> 0:17:20.199 for what's driving this you know uptick, not a surge, 0:17:20.200 --> 0:17:22.720 but an uptick and interest in producing for First Run 0:17:22.880 --> 0:17:25.600 when we when we just talked about the markets pretty challenged. Sure, 0:17:25.880 --> 0:17:28.120 you know, I think part of it is this sort 0:17:28.160 --> 0:17:30.680 of a new chene on on the station business over 0:17:30.720 --> 0:17:34.560 the last few years, you know, between consolidation and acquisitions 0:17:34.680 --> 0:17:39.520 and you know, cord cutting, um, the importance of or 0:17:39.560 --> 0:17:41.960 re emergence if you will, of local news at times 0:17:41.960 --> 0:17:45.040 of disaster and things that have gone on. You know 0:17:45.960 --> 0:17:49.159 what what I remember hearing fifteen years ago, you know 0:17:49.240 --> 0:17:51.040 we were old media, you know, and then we heard 0:17:51.080 --> 0:17:54.280 it again ten years ago. Um, you know, we're still 0:17:54.320 --> 0:17:58.600 here and and and still very profitable in many ways, 0:17:58.800 --> 0:18:01.959 and still the largest sort of news and information you know, 0:18:02.080 --> 0:18:06.160 for generals a week and every every survey will tell 0:18:06.160 --> 0:18:09.639 you that local newscasts still in the world of you know, 0:18:09.720 --> 0:18:14.000 digital and you know, communications on in a nanosecond. It's 0:18:14.040 --> 0:18:17.480 pretty amazing that all the Pew research studies always say 0:18:17.520 --> 0:18:20.960 always still local and national, but that local news. You know, 0:18:21.440 --> 0:18:22.600 you get up in the morning, you need to know 0:18:22.640 --> 0:18:24.879 what the weather is going to be. No, And and 0:18:24.920 --> 0:18:27.040 looky myke. You know these days people will get it 0:18:27.080 --> 0:18:31.200 on their phone, but it's still maybe the local station 0:18:31.840 --> 0:18:34.840 on your phone. You know, it's consumed differently, but the 0:18:34.880 --> 0:18:38.560 information still carries a lot of wallop, you know. And 0:18:38.600 --> 0:18:40.359 you know, people would would ask you how do you 0:18:40.400 --> 0:18:42.919 compete with the streamers and say, well, you know, when 0:18:43.280 --> 0:18:45.479 when a hurricane happens, they don't go to Netflix, they 0:18:45.520 --> 0:18:47.840 come to you know k R I V in Houston. 0:18:47.880 --> 0:18:52.960 You know, we hope um and you know that's you know, 0:18:53.119 --> 0:18:55.439 our future. I mean, that's we have to be. We 0:18:55.480 --> 0:18:58.560 have to be number one in being that to people. 0:18:58.800 --> 0:19:03.760 But I think overall again and the acquisitions, um, you know, 0:19:03.840 --> 0:19:07.240 the company consolidation. I mean we're now one of four 0:19:07.280 --> 0:19:10.080 companies in Fox where we used to be one of. 0:19:10.880 --> 0:19:16.360 However many right now a much more diverse Yeah, so 0:19:16.640 --> 0:19:18.800 you know, now we're looked at a little differently as well, 0:19:18.840 --> 0:19:21.399 because we're sort of a bigger piece of the pie. 0:19:21.560 --> 0:19:24.119 But and you also have these big companies that have 0:19:24.280 --> 0:19:27.960 owned that own stations and they realize all the same 0:19:27.960 --> 0:19:29.640 things that we do in a lot of ways. So 0:19:30.080 --> 0:19:32.719 you know, if you're gonna thrive, you're gonna need shows, 0:19:33.640 --> 0:19:36.360 you know. And you know, network models change. We've seen 0:19:36.400 --> 0:19:39.000 soap operas go away and there's still some game shows on. 0:19:39.119 --> 0:19:43.000 But um, get a hit in this business, you'd still 0:19:43.040 --> 0:19:46.200 be okay. You know, everybody in media world is talking 0:19:46.240 --> 0:19:51.280 about streaming and the audiences embrace of on demand platforms 0:19:51.280 --> 0:19:53.680 that are obviously different than the than the live televi 0:19:53.840 --> 0:19:56.240 you know, the live linear viewing that that we've all 0:19:56.240 --> 0:19:59.760 grown up with. Um, what on the local level do 0:19:59.840 --> 0:20:04.280 you see that is there demand? Is are the audiences 0:20:04.560 --> 0:20:08.640 for even for local programming trying to trying to move online? 0:20:08.680 --> 0:20:11.199 Do you feel like that your stations need to have 0:20:11.320 --> 0:20:14.240 that have a streaming Yes, actually yeah, we do. We 0:20:14.240 --> 0:20:16.719 were we think that for sure. Um, we we need 0:20:16.760 --> 0:20:19.480 to be able to be consumed how people are consuming 0:20:19.720 --> 0:20:22.000 and so yeah, we definitely need to be there. I 0:20:22.040 --> 0:20:24.880 think there's a question whether or not our five day 0:20:24.880 --> 0:20:29.240 a week programming, whether it's syndicated or local, is sort 0:20:29.240 --> 0:20:32.600 of something that would work on a streamer because I 0:20:32.600 --> 0:20:35.320 think people consume that differently. You know, they they're not 0:20:35.400 --> 0:20:37.520 going there. I mean, I don't know how Jeopardy is 0:20:37.520 --> 0:20:40.280 doing on Hulu or wherever they are. But you know, 0:20:40.320 --> 0:20:42.919 we've had shows that we put up on streamers and 0:20:42.960 --> 0:20:46.919 they just don't exist. So I don't know whether you 0:20:46.960 --> 0:20:50.000 can take a hit syndicated show, even if it's first run, 0:20:50.080 --> 0:20:52.760 put it on a streamer and and and have success 0:20:52.800 --> 0:20:54.639 because that's not how it's consumed. You know what. We 0:20:54.760 --> 0:20:59.240 do so much about habit, you know, um, so it 0:20:59.280 --> 0:21:01.400 remains to be seeing let me ask you on the 0:21:01.400 --> 0:21:05.760 flip side of the first run question. UM, you know 0:21:06.320 --> 0:21:08.919 this is um. This has been an incredible time for 0:21:09.000 --> 0:21:12.159 media right now and big companies taking you know, ninety 0:21:12.200 --> 0:21:16.040 degree turns in their business models, Disney, A, T and T, 0:21:16.960 --> 0:21:21.720 NBC going going big into the streaming platform business. All 0:21:21.760 --> 0:21:24.359 of that is going to add up to, you know, 0:21:24.440 --> 0:21:28.000