Speaker 1: Welcome to Strictly Business Varieties weekly podcast featuring conversations with
Speaker 1: industry leaders about the business of media and entertainment. I'm
Speaker 1: Andrew Wallenstein, Varieties co editor in chief and co host
Speaker 1: of this podcast with Cynthia Littleton, Variety Business Editor. Today's
Speaker 1: guest is Frank Sica, Executive VP of Programming for Fox
Speaker 1: TV Stations. Frank is a nearly thirty year veteran of Fox,
Speaker 1: and he has been calling the shots on programming for
Speaker 1: the O and O group for more than a decade.
Speaker 1: In his conversation with Cynthia, Frank is characteristically blunt about
Speaker 1: the challenges that local TV stations face in the era
Speaker 1: of fragmentation, particularly in daytime. He explains Fox's strategy of
Speaker 1: conducting regional tests of prospective new syndicated shows and how
Speaker 1: that's benefited the group. Frank also gives his perspective and
Speaker 1: how life has changed that Fox since most of the
Speaker 1: company was sold to is n Franks, executive vice president
Speaker 1: of Programming for Fox Television Stations, in a twenty eight
Speaker 1: year and counting Fox veteran, Thank you for stopping by.
Speaker 1: My pleasure, Thanks thanks for having me. Nice to be
Speaker 1: back in New York Um. Nice to have a beautiful
Speaker 1: view in this great new building. So thanks for thanks
Speaker 1: for inviting us. Things are good here down in what
Speaker 1: do they call it Midtown East these days? Here, Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's it's a little rainy and overcast, but it's nice.
Speaker 1: It's a beautiful fall in New York day. Let's talk
Speaker 1: about the programming that is coming out of Fox Television stations.
Speaker 1: For the last couple of years, you've clearly been on
Speaker 1: a ramp up of doing a lot more in house development,
Speaker 1: a lot of some very adventurous formats, trying to break
Speaker 1: the mold. You are known for being very candid in
Speaker 1: your assessment of shows and what is needed, what kind
Speaker 1: of fresh thinking and fresh ideas are needed in daytime,
Speaker 1: which I think everybody would agree is a very challenging,
Speaker 1: challenging day part to program to right now, with the
Speaker 1: slice of the audience being so tiny and spread among
Speaker 1: so many outlets, can you talk about sort of what
Speaker 1: what inspired you guys to really invest in your own
Speaker 1: original content, original development and and this is something that
Speaker 1: started even before the company underwent the separation with Disney.
Speaker 1: This started a couple of years ago at least, I
Speaker 1: mean I think there always was. For a while, twenty
Speaker 1: Television you know, reported to us, and so there were
Speaker 1: always projects in development, development and being produced. I think, um,
Speaker 1: you know, we learned a long time ago that um,
Speaker 1: he was important to produce some of our own stuff,
Speaker 1: but be to also realized that we couldn't do it
Speaker 1: all ourselves, and that a balance was very very important.
Speaker 1: And I won't go through the list of projects that
Speaker 1: had to fail before we realized we couldn't do it
Speaker 1: all ourselves, but um, that is a fact. So you know,
Speaker 1: as much as we're you know, doing our own programming, UM,
Speaker 1: you know, the partnerships we have with out side distributors
Speaker 1: are more important than ever as well, because there's just
Speaker 1: less of them, you know. And you know, again we
Speaker 1: have a lot of shelf space to fill across two
Speaker 1: stations and a lot of big markets. So you know,
Speaker 1: that sort of balance between what we do ourselves and
Speaker 1: you know, what we bring in from the outside is
Speaker 1: um is more important than ever, and as well as
Speaker 1: the idea that we need to do more and take
Speaker 1: more swings than ever. I mean, lest I would say,
Speaker 1: over the last decade or so, you know, we were
Speaker 1: scratching our heads all the time, like why did why
Speaker 1: do things only happen in September? Or why do you
Speaker 1: know failed shows stay on for the year if not
Speaker 1: two years? You know, we just didn't understand that. We
Speaker 1: certainly think it contributed to a lot of our ratings erosion.
Speaker 1: Um And I think that's true with our competitors as well.
Speaker 1: So the idea of trying to figure out new ways
Speaker 1: to bring more shows to the table for whatever length
Speaker 1: of time, three weeks, five weeks, and god knows these
Speaker 1: days on cable, you know, the runs are six episodes,
Speaker 1: eight episodes, you know, unheard of a decade ago, fifteen
Speaker 1: years ago, it's now this this the standard. Even in broadcast,
Speaker 1: you know, you don't see as many full episode orders. Um,
Speaker 1: So why should that be any different in what we do?
Speaker 1: And I think in the end it comes down to
Speaker 1: just having the right partners who are willing to think differently,
Speaker 1: and that has been a challenge in certain circumstances. But um, overall,
Speaker 1: I think people are starting to see that it's better
Speaker 1: to take a look at more things and eureka, you know,
Speaker 1: potentially lose less money by even doing that, um than
Speaker 1: taking these gigantic swings and and you know, and really
Speaker 1: hurting the bottom line and having stations you know, fail
Speaker 1: and have time periods fail Now doesn't mean you can't
Speaker 1: have big swings. And we've seen enough of those in
Speaker 1: the last few years. And there's a couple now that
Speaker 1: actually I think of doing, you know, sort of okay,
Speaker 1: and that's great for the business, but I think we
Speaker 1: sort of start with this volume. We want to do
Speaker 1: as many things we can and so twelve months a
Speaker 1: year we all have new stuff and and that's actually
Speaker 1: my goal, you know, Um, especially now without a syndication
Speaker 1: company reporting to us, which has been true for a
Speaker 1: few years. Um, you know, without that sort of how
Speaker 1: are they doing idea? Um, you know, there's no other
Speaker 1: concerns other than trying to get as much first run
Speaker 1: stuff on as possible. At least for me, that's the
Speaker 1: big deal. And you and Fox has been very much
Speaker 1: pioneer in in in developing concepts and as you say,
Speaker 1: putting them on for short runs three weeks, five weeks
Speaker 1: and a couple of markets so you can just kind
Speaker 1: of test and get a sense of the pulse of
Speaker 1: the show and how people, how people respond to the talent,
Speaker 1: and you talk about are there difficult things in terms
Speaker 1: of like structuring contracts and deals for a three week
Speaker 1: run a five week run. Is that kind of what
Speaker 1: what you were saying, when you need partners that will
Speaker 1: be more open up, like you know, they you know,
Speaker 1: the partners need to understand the endgame, and you know,
Speaker 1: the the end game is both of us have a hit.
Speaker 1: You know, how we get there has sort of changed,
Speaker 1: I think, And uh, you know, it's for years people said,
Speaker 1: well it's a one in twenty business. You know, you
Speaker 1: known one out of twenty, you know goes to year
Speaker 1: two or year three. Well you know, well then let's
Speaker 1: do sixty of them, you know, and and you know,
Speaker 1: and try to improve that batting average. But for sure,
Speaker 1: you know, structurally, uh, it can get challenging. But if
Speaker 1: if both sides have the same sort of endgame, you
Speaker 1: can get to it um And that's been really encouraging
Speaker 1: over the last couple of years, especially where you know,
Speaker 1: Jerry O'Connell filled in within those wendy time periods for us,
Speaker 1: which was just terrific because that's a real test. Now
Speaker 1: that's not me picking four markets saying, you know and
Speaker 1: praying that this is sort of a real look at
Speaker 1: a well produced television program across the country. Um, well,
Speaker 1: that's a real test. And by the way, we all
Speaker 1: got more first front programming as a result of it,
Speaker 1: So right, and the Wendy Williams Show, which is kind
Speaker 1: of the poster child for this process. That Wendy Williams
Speaker 1: began as a limited test over the summer and then
Speaker 1: clearly you saw, you know, the indications were very positive.
Speaker 1: You went national and then this was in partnership with
Speaker 1: lions Gate and deb Mar Mercury. You went national and
Speaker 1: here ten years later, it's it's still very French. It
Speaker 1: was fun. A couple of weeks ago, we had the
Speaker 1: star dedication, you know, on the on the Hollywood Walk
Speaker 1: of Fame and uh, um, you know, we're lucky enough
Speaker 1: to be there for that, and that sort of was
Speaker 1: fun to think about how the test was sort of
Speaker 1: a chair and a camera, a couple of drapes behind her,
Speaker 1: you know, in a disco bawl. And uh, you know,
Speaker 1: ten years later, she's she's on the Walk of Fame.
Speaker 1: So we're we're happy and for her and proud of her.
Speaker 1: What he works harder. Um, but when I think about
Speaker 1: all the projects we've done, since then. It just goes
Speaker 1: to show how hard it is to do right, you
Speaker 1: know it is it is. It is tough to do
Speaker 1: what other than ratings. And I'm curious if there are
Speaker 1: markets outside of the obvious New York at a Chicago
Speaker 1: that you like to go to to kind of get
Speaker 1: a representative sense of good question. I mean, it's it's
Speaker 1: funny because, um, you know this, many years into doing this,
Speaker 1: we realize there are certain stations we can put anything
Speaker 1: on and it'll and it'll rate. You know, I don't
Speaker 1: I don't need to get specific about that, but you
Speaker 1: know there there we you know, are in our Dallas
Speaker 1: station you know has never had a test that didn't
Speaker 1: do good ratings. Detroit, you know there's a there's a
Speaker 1: whole handful of them. So you know, you you'll put
Speaker 1: those on because you'll see if a lot of people
Speaker 1: bail from whatever the leading might be. It's obvious maybe
Speaker 1: there's an issue, but um, you know a lot of
Speaker 1: what we want look at is to help help the
Speaker 1: top markets. And and you know in New York, Uh,
Speaker 1: to me, is is the most important if you can,
Speaker 1: if you can, you know, make some hay there and
Speaker 1: then after that Los Angeles. But again in l A
Speaker 1: there's a so few rating points around that it's it's
Speaker 1: harder to judge. Um New York, there are still platforms
Speaker 1: where you can put things and really judge, you know,
Speaker 1: without saying, you know, names of shows that failed. We
Speaker 1: had one where, you know, got a great lead in
Speaker 1: people ran, they didn't walk away from the set, they right,
Speaker 1: and then they came back, you know, and an hour later.
Speaker 1: So as long as we can get those kind of
Speaker 1: reads in a in a big market like this in
Speaker 1: New York, you know, we can get it real, a
Speaker 1: real taste of it. And your savings in a test
Speaker 1: if you were too, if you were to have roll
Speaker 1: the dice on a national rollout, your savings in the
Speaker 1: test can be measured in seven figures. Yes, so absolutely,
Speaker 1: and and it's funny because we've been pitched shows that
Speaker 1: we're supposed to be. If you asked the distributor national
Speaker 1: launches designed for national launchs, we refused to do that,
Speaker 1: have done tests failed, and then said, boy, what a
Speaker 1: good thing. You're welcome exactly that that we didn't go
Speaker 1: forward nationally with that. You know, there's a difference between
Speaker 1: selling something because you can and selling something because it's
Speaker 1: the right project or that it fits in stations lineup
Speaker 1: so that the marketplace wants it, you know, So you know,
Speaker 1: it's all a big learning process and that and that's
Speaker 1: you know, part of the fun of it. And you're
Speaker 1: one of your pritors. This fall has been the national
Speaker 1: rollout of Words or Less, a game show hosted by
Speaker 1: Meredith Vieira. It's a real kind of a unicorn in
Speaker 1: an original format. My god, in this day and age,
Speaker 1: that's a headline unto itself. And getting somebody like Meredith,
Speaker 1: who you know, incredibly accomplished, respected, well known TV personality,
Speaker 1: that's got to be, you know, kind of a kind
Speaker 1: of a nice perfect storm for you, no question. And
Speaker 1: and I remember that test. I remember that pitch. I
Speaker 1: give Steven Brown and Jack Abernathy were perhaps more supportive
Speaker 1: of the actual idea than even I was, because I
Speaker 1: think game show pitches play well in the room. That's
Speaker 1: sort of a new way to come and pitch. Game
Speaker 1: shows is like set up a whole thing and play
Speaker 1: and that's great, But that doesn't mean anybody's gonna want
Speaker 1: to watch, you know, um, But we thought there was
Speaker 1: enough there in the actual game Um, you know, it
Speaker 1: had its success as a board game, and you know
Speaker 1: that was great, but UM really attaching mereth to it.
Speaker 1: I give Steven credit for that. UM really sort of
Speaker 1: up the antie on that. And I remember the list
Speaker 1: of hosts that that they were sort of considering, and
Speaker 1: there was some really good people in there. But she
Speaker 1: she was a game changer as far as no pun intended. UM,
Speaker 1: that was a big deal bringing her in and and
Speaker 1: you know, she was super professional with sort of a
Speaker 1: short runway to ramp up, you know, for the the
Speaker 1: original test and uh. And it's been nothing but a
Speaker 1: pleasure to work with h on the show itself. Which interestingly,
Speaker 1: another great thing about this format is you can wrap
Speaker 1: it in a couple of months for the year and
Speaker 1: and you know that keeps the costs in this hemisphere,
Speaker 1: which is which is nice. UM. So we're real happy
Speaker 1: with with the job. And in success, you'll own that format.
Speaker 1: That format will be part of last Yeah. In fact,
Speaker 1: from what I'm told, there's interest in the format UM
Speaker 1: in other countries, in a couple of other countries. So
Speaker 1: you know, any anything we could do to sort of
Speaker 1: bolster the situation would be terrific. But Yeah, that one's ours,
Speaker 1: which we're happy about. Um. You talked about it a
Speaker 1: little bit. But you know, one of the hard things
Speaker 1: about programming daytime is, as you said, what you know
Speaker 1: is a point three cancelation and a point five is renewed.
Speaker 1: The marketplace in daytime is so diffuse across so many
Speaker 1: platforms that it's it's got to be so hard to
Speaker 1: be it's gotta be so hard to program. Not that
Speaker 1: it was ever easy to program, but to get a
Speaker 1: sense of what's working and what people are going to
Speaker 1: respond to with the numbers being some microscript yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: you know, and you know, unfortunately, the reality is a
Speaker 1: lot of its economics. Um. You know, there are certain
Speaker 1: rating levels that a distributor can make money at nationally,
Speaker 1: and there's certain ones that that there aren't. Um and
Speaker 1: and that is that is the struggle. I think that
Speaker 1: the good news is over the last few years there
Speaker 1: seems to be more projects being launched and and being attempted,
Speaker 1: which I mean, that's the hope. I mean that that's
Speaker 1: what will save us, is is that idea that like
Speaker 1: people continue to take swings, and you're right there there
Speaker 1: are It gets to a to a sort of a
Speaker 1: thin level. You're they are looking at a couple of
Speaker 1: tents you know here are there particularly nationally? Um? And
Speaker 1: from there you have to disaw, you know, and what
Speaker 1: you have to decide is, you know, why is this
Speaker 1: going to get better? Because I think it's very easy
Speaker 1: for anybody to talk themselves into why something can stay on.
Speaker 1: It's a good idea that I think we should keep
Speaker 1: this on because we can. We should keep this on.
Speaker 1: But why would you do it if you didn't really
Speaker 1: think it was going to get better? And why is
Speaker 1: it going to get better? You know? What's the plan here? So? Um?
Speaker 1: You know all that all of it plays in looks around.
Speaker 1: I I still love to go back to the show
Speaker 1: and does it fit in our lineup? We we did
Speaker 1: one um recently where it just was something that just
Speaker 1: did not fit in what we do and and it
Speaker 1: was clear, it was so clear, And what we learned
Speaker 1: from it is that yet we have to be broader.
Speaker 1: We really have to pay attention to who's watching our stations.
Speaker 1: It sounds obvious, but it doesn't always happen, um and
Speaker 1: and program to those people and and uh, you know
Speaker 1: which means for us anyway a little broader or a
Speaker 1: lot broader is really what we have to look at.
Speaker 1: Do you differentiate regionally much? Because you have such a
Speaker 1: large group covering so many markets, it's got to be
Speaker 1: hard to find something that's gonna work in New York
Speaker 1: and also work in Dallas and also work in San Francisco. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean we don't. We don't sort of look that
Speaker 1: way because the good shows will work everywhere, the hits
Speaker 1: will work everywhere. But you have to you know, no,
Speaker 1: I think you have to know that they can work
Speaker 1: in a New York or in l A or San Francisco,
Speaker 1: because you're not gonna be able to produce them into
Speaker 1: a national show if you're not getting them in those
Speaker 1: kind of markets. I think, you know, a lot of
Speaker 1: our competitors that don't have those big markets, the groups
Speaker 1: that sort of you know, have gone into production and
Speaker 1: done shows. This did well in Memphis and then, but
Speaker 1: that's not gonna matter, you know, if you think you're
Speaker 1: going to go national, and so we really need to
Speaker 1: know that. And uh, you know, I think we've done
Speaker 1: some sort of regional things or teach some things up
Speaker 1: for certain markets. Um years ago, we would do court
Speaker 1: shows as tests in court blocks, and you know, New
Speaker 1: York wasn't really doing that well at the time, and
Speaker 1: so we didn't use New York. It was like, if
Speaker 1: you could fit in a court block, though it should work.
Speaker 1: You know, I can't remember the last test we did.
Speaker 1: It didn't include New York. Now, you know, I think
Speaker 1: it's really important. And again the hits, you can go
Speaker 1: back a hundred years. Little Seinfeld wasn't gonna work because
Speaker 1: it's a New York show, and you know, Judge Judy
Speaker 1: is not gonna work in African American markets, and and
Speaker 1: you know, you hear all these things, but a good
Speaker 1: show transcends all of it. We're just a couple of
Speaker 1: months out from the traditional sort of pivot point of
Speaker 1: the syndication year, which is January. Obviously a little anachronistic
Speaker 1: in the world that we live in, especially is for
Speaker 1: the reasons you were just saying, but it is nonetheless
Speaker 1: it is it is sort of a time of year
Speaker 1: when when we start to get a sense of what
Speaker 1: is going to be coming for the fall and what
Speaker 1: you know, what may or may not be coming back
Speaker 1: that could be on the fence. This year we've seen,
Speaker 1: to my mind, it seems like the the some of
Speaker 1: the larger distributors that are the First Run business have
Speaker 1: a little more ambition this year. We've got some big
Speaker 1: projects with Drew barrymore with Nick Cannon, some talk shows.
Speaker 1: We're seeing some different formats of cooking and different kinds
Speaker 1: of games. What do you think, since you deal with
Speaker 1: all of the distributors, what do you think is accounting
Speaker 1: for what's driving this you know uptick, not a surge,
Speaker 1: but an uptick and interest in producing for First Run
Speaker 1: when we when we just talked about the markets pretty challenged. Sure,
Speaker 1: you know, I think part of it is this sort
Speaker 1: of a new chene on on the station business over
Speaker 1: the last few years, you know, between consolidation and acquisitions
Speaker 1: and you know, cord cutting, um, the importance of or
Speaker 1: re emergence if you will, of local news at times
Speaker 1: of disaster and things that have gone on. You know
Speaker 1: what what I remember hearing fifteen years ago, you know
Speaker 1: we were old media, you know, and then we heard
Speaker 1: it again ten years ago. Um, you know, we're still
Speaker 1: here and and and still very profitable in many ways,
Speaker 1: and still the largest sort of news and information you know,
Speaker 1: for generals a week and every every survey will tell
Speaker 1: you that local newscasts still in the world of you know,
Speaker 1: digital and you know, communications on in a nanosecond. It's
Speaker 1: pretty amazing that all the Pew research studies always say
Speaker 1: always still local and national, but that local news. You know,
Speaker 1: you get up in the morning, you need to know
Speaker 1: what the weather is going to be. No, And and
Speaker 1: looky myke. You know these days people will get it
Speaker 1: on their phone, but it's still maybe the local station
Speaker 1: on your phone. You know, it's consumed differently, but the
Speaker 1: information still carries a lot of wallop, you know. And
Speaker 1: you know, people would would ask you how do you
Speaker 1: compete with the streamers and say, well, you know, when
Speaker 1: when a hurricane happens, they don't go to Netflix, they
Speaker 1: come to you know k R I V in Houston.
Speaker 1: You know, we hope um and you know that's you know,
Speaker 1: our future. I mean, that's we have to be. We
Speaker 1: have to be number one in being that to people.
Speaker 1: But I think overall again and the acquisitions, um, you know,
Speaker 1: the company consolidation. I mean we're now one of four
Speaker 1: companies in Fox where we used to be one of.
Speaker 1: However many right now a much more diverse Yeah, so
Speaker 1: you know, now we're looked at a little differently as well,
Speaker 1: because we're sort of a bigger piece of the pie.
Speaker 1: But and you also have these big companies that have
Speaker 1: owned that own stations and they realize all the same
Speaker 1: things that we do in a lot of ways. So
Speaker 1: you know, if you're gonna thrive, you're gonna need shows,
Speaker 1: you know. And you know, network models change. We've seen
Speaker 1: soap operas go away and there's still some game shows on.
Speaker 1: But um, get a hit in this business, you'd still
Speaker 1: be okay. You know, everybody in media world is talking
Speaker 1: about streaming and the audiences embrace of on demand platforms
Speaker 1: that are obviously different than the than the live televi
Speaker 1: you know, the live linear viewing that that we've all
Speaker 1: grown up with. Um, what on the local level do
Speaker 1: you see that is there demand? Is are the audiences
Speaker 1: for even for local programming trying to trying to move online?
Speaker 1: Do you feel like that your stations need to have
Speaker 1: that have a streaming Yes, actually yeah, we do. We
Speaker 1: were we think that for sure. Um, we we need
Speaker 1: to be able to be consumed how people are consuming
Speaker 1: and so yeah, we definitely need to be there. I
Speaker 1: think there's a question whether or not our five day
Speaker 1: a week programming, whether it's syndicated or local, is sort
Speaker 1: of something that would work on a streamer because I
Speaker 1: think people consume that differently. You know, they they're not
Speaker 1: going there. I mean, I don't know how Jeopardy is
Speaker 1: doing on Hulu or wherever they are. But you know,
Speaker 1: we've had shows that we put up on streamers and
Speaker 1: they just don't exist. So I don't know whether you
Speaker 1: can take a hit syndicated show, even if it's first run,
Speaker 1: put it on a streamer and and and have success
Speaker 1: because that's not how it's consumed. You know what. We
Speaker 1: do so much about habit, you know, um, so it
Speaker 1: remains to be seeing let me ask you on the
Speaker 1: flip side of the first run question. UM, you know
Speaker 1: this is um. This has been an incredible time for
Speaker 1: media right now and big companies taking you know, ninety
Speaker 1: degree turns in their business models, Disney, A, T and T,
Speaker 1: NBC going going big into the streaming platform business. All
Speaker 1: of that is going to add up to, you know,
Speaker 1: big changes in the supply chain of programming. You know,
Speaker 1: off network shows, big hits, big hit off network shows
Speaker 1: have been very important to the Fox TV station group.
Speaker 1: Are you concerned that the supply of successful off network
Speaker 1: shows is gonna win in the coming years. No, no,
Speaker 1: And I think we sort of saw this common honestly
Speaker 1: ten fifteen years ago when we when we started, I
Speaker 1: mean obviously when they when they first started going to cable,
Speaker 1: you knew things were changing. Um. True, when we bought
Speaker 1: Big Bang Theory, we knew there was a a concarrent
Speaker 1: cable window at least friends, you know, million years ago.
Speaker 1: You had exclusive broadcast for a little while three years
Speaker 1: I think, and then it went to turn or whatever.
Speaker 1: So this was already starting to get brewing some time ago.
Speaker 1: And then you had DVDs. That was a big problem.
Speaker 1: I remember, with a big concern, I should say, with Seinfeld,
Speaker 1: Oh my god, they're putting all out on DVD. What
Speaker 1: are we gonna do? You know? So then iTunes comes
Speaker 1: out and they're selling the shows on their on the
Speaker 1: iTunes library, you can watch them on your iPad, And
Speaker 1: so this was sort of manifesting itself for a while.
Speaker 1: We sort of saw that. Um, we saw that coming. Now,
Speaker 1: you know, it's sort of coincided to some degree with
Speaker 1: for some reason, studios producing less of them are the
Speaker 1: certainly less of them that worked. But between all of
Speaker 1: those factors, you know, we we thought years ago that
Speaker 1: you know, sitting around waiting for the next you know,
Speaker 1: big go off net show was not going to be
Speaker 1: the way to uh to do it if one came great.
Speaker 1: But you know, I soon after we bought a Big Bang,
Speaker 1: I think are our thought was, the next Big Bang
Speaker 1: is going to go right to a streamer, you know,
Speaker 1: the next next Big Bang We're not even gonna get
Speaker 1: a sniff at, you know. And and as we've acted
Speaker 1: sort of that way since then, and so would you
Speaker 1: say that off network programming is less has become less
Speaker 1: important for us for the station question? Look at the
Speaker 1: big Bank still makes a lot of money, and we
Speaker 1: were we're okay with the degree that we're in it,
Speaker 1: but we also know that, um, it's waning. And and again,
Speaker 1: you know, you look at the ratings in prime time.
Speaker 1: You know, we had a and when we had the studio,
Speaker 1: we used to get pitched all of these shows, I
Speaker 1: mean legions of them, and they would all come through.
Speaker 1: They would all come through where we would get because
Speaker 1: they all have you know whatever three years in four
Speaker 1: years in I'm not gonna mention any of the shows,
Speaker 1: but the conversations would be like, well, why don't you
Speaker 1: want this? Well extra about how great the show is.
Speaker 1: It's a one rating in prime. That tells me it
Speaker 1: doesn't really matter much in prime to the viewers. What's
Speaker 1: it going to mean us even less? You know? Um?
Speaker 1: And then I think when you you started to get
Speaker 1: projects that people would want to bring out, but then
Speaker 1: realize that if they put them out, they'd lose money,
Speaker 1: you know, given the ratings that they'd get some some
Speaker 1: well rated, some decently rated and high quality programs. I
Speaker 1: remember when they had a pull um curb your Enthusiasm
Speaker 1: and um uh the which McCall it the curb and
Speaker 1: entourage out of syndication because they were losing it costs
Speaker 1: them money to actually put it out. That it just
Speaker 1: didn't make sense. So and there's been a few that
Speaker 1: didn't go because of that quality programs. And we're not
Speaker 1: talking about bad shows. It just, um, you know, when
Speaker 1: you when when you generate that that kind of audience
Speaker 1: in your primary run and this was at the time,
Speaker 1: I'd be like, what's it gonna How could it possibly
Speaker 1: matter for us? And so how could we possibly pay
Speaker 1: for it? You know? Now to put that little idea
Speaker 1: in with all the other things that were happening with
Speaker 1: off net and library and everything else and again, and
Speaker 1: I think Jack coming from Fox News, you know, Live seven,
Speaker 1: you know, the the idea was, we can't sit around
Speaker 1: and wait for for the next big bang, you know, um,
Speaker 1: especially now. Um, and that explains another reason for your
Speaker 1: ramp up in your own no doubt, No no doubt.
Speaker 1: I think it's more about being live and first run
Speaker 1: as much as possible as it is us doing it.
Speaker 1: I mean, we'll you know, we have Warner Brothers doing
Speaker 1: a lot of those shows for us, you know. Der
Speaker 1: So where it comes from, we can figure it out.
Speaker 1: But having it, I think it's the main thing, whether
Speaker 1: it comes from us or not. But certainly the news,
Speaker 1: you know, doing a thousand hours and news a week
Speaker 1: across our group. But that absolutely is a big part
Speaker 1: of that. Um. You know, I bought all those off
Speaker 1: that shows at one point or another, which is sort
Speaker 1: of funny now because now they're going for two streamers
Speaker 1: for bigger money than they ever saw. You know. It's
Speaker 1: it's it's hysterical. But um, you have to evolve absolutely
Speaker 1: DVR proof, As a wise man once said, change or
Speaker 1: die right. UM, let me ask you about um we're
Speaker 1: talking about you have you know, two stations in many
Speaker 1: markets to program and that is a that is more
Speaker 1: than a full time job. You also have a lot
Speaker 1: of multicast real estate, and if I'm not mistaken, you
Speaker 1: have arrangements with a number of third party providers that
Speaker 1: have different niches. How is that business overall shaping up?
Speaker 1: It seems like it's been a good ten years that
Speaker 1: the various big groups have been experimenting. We haven't been
Speaker 1: in quite that long. Um. I think that's a good business,
Speaker 1: or it can be a good business. I think there
Speaker 1: may be a sort of glood of channels. A dozen
Speaker 1: years there's been you know, many more channels added to
Speaker 1: the mix or friends at wigal you know with me
Speaker 1: TV and um, you know the movie channel they did
Speaker 1: with MGM and originally which is this TV like for
Speaker 1: the first guys in sort of I think, um, you know,
Speaker 1: sort of foresaw the future a little bit and got
Speaker 1: in there and did it. But I think that there's
Speaker 1: been some over the last few years that just you know,
Speaker 1: just additive. But I don't know what they bring to
Speaker 1: the table as far as viewership. Um, you know the
Speaker 1: names of them. I don't understand what they're even about. Um,
Speaker 1: you know, it's it's it's about you know, using spectrum
Speaker 1: and that's fine. Um, but I wonder what the long
Speaker 1: term play for viewers is going to be on some
Speaker 1: of these things. I mean what I'm what I like
Speaker 1: to do. What we like to do is put stuff
Speaker 1: on these channels that we don't do on particularly on
Speaker 1: the on the primary channels through alternative. Yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: I think that makes sense. We you know, we do
Speaker 1: movies which is certainly that and H and I, which
Speaker 1: is a classic television or our drama sort of UM channel,
Speaker 1: which is fine, and then Buzzer which is a game
Speaker 1: show channel, which is which is kind of cool. And
Speaker 1: we've done some things with them that are sort of
Speaker 1: cross pollinated. The one that we most recently did UM
Speaker 1: which is decades with Wigel. That one may be one
Speaker 1: where we get in and you know, provide some content
Speaker 1: for it, sort of a historical channel they do first
Speaker 1: run with news personalities like Bill Curtis and they look
Speaker 1: back at history. And you know the fact is we
Speaker 1: have um, you know, sixteen markets with archives, you know,
Speaker 1: and so there there's ways that things can be packaged
Speaker 1: to be additive to that. Um. So even in our
Speaker 1: own world, you know, the idea that we'd be producing
Speaker 1: movies to put on movies, that wasn't gonna happen. But
Speaker 1: for something like decades, I think it could be something
Speaker 1: we could we could enhance just given what our businesses
Speaker 1: on the primary stations. Would you say that that, you know,
Speaker 1: developing the multicast real estate is a priority for the station.
Speaker 1: It hasn't been, you know, it hasn't been. You know,
Speaker 1: we we didn't know for a while, like what was
Speaker 1: gonna have the spectrum auction was going to chake out?
Speaker 1: You know, right now we're doing the best we can
Speaker 1: with it. Um. You know, whether that's the ultimate future
Speaker 1: U for us, we'll we'll, we'll wait and see. But
Speaker 1: in the meantime, we have some some some channels that
Speaker 1: were proud of that. You know, we've gotten good feedback
Speaker 1: on that makes some money and uh, you know we're
Speaker 1: going to continue in that manner. Which which of the
Speaker 1: channels have been most successful for you? Um? You know,
Speaker 1: again we're kind of more passive in it. You know,
Speaker 1: you don't but I mean probably, I mean that's the
Speaker 1: one that's been on the longest Um, that's the one
Speaker 1: that when it comes off or any amount of time,
Speaker 1: we get hate mail, you know, just kind it might
Speaker 1: be from the same guy. You know. I think that's
Speaker 1: probably correct. And you know, Buzzer is an interesting one too,
Speaker 1: because you get you know, get quote, you get like
Speaker 1: posts on Facebook. I think there's unfortunately people out there
Speaker 1: that think that these shows are really on now. Um,
Speaker 1: so you know, I'll leave that up to their therapists.
Speaker 1: But but you get some interesting feedback on some of
Speaker 1: these channels. But I think Movies was the one that
Speaker 1: was the first one we got in and we sort
Speaker 1: of own that and have contracted with Wily sort of
Speaker 1: run it for us. The other ones were not as active.
Speaker 1: It's basically we're you know, they're leasing our signal. But
Speaker 1: you know, we certainly want, you know, the programming to
Speaker 1: be of quality, and the people that we've worked with
Speaker 1: this far thus far have have certainly delivered that. So
Speaker 1: but I think there's too many of them. I think
Speaker 1: something need to go away um overall, and and you know,
Speaker 1: we'll see how that develops. I think it's interesting to
Speaker 1: see what that real estate becomes for sure. Yeah, Well
Speaker 1: there's there's there's no question. But it is interesting though
Speaker 1: because if you you know, I'm not advocating gourd cutting necessarily,
Speaker 1: but you know, if you certain markets, if you look
Speaker 1: at what you can get over the air, um, seriously,
Speaker 1: it looks like cable in the eighties, if you have
Speaker 1: you have you had a national sports net on there,
Speaker 1: you'd be like set, you know, And it's really interesting,
Speaker 1: um the spectrum. You know, how the use of the
Speaker 1: spectrum and how how varied some of these channels are
Speaker 1: along with your your big broadcast stations in each market.
Speaker 1: So you can get by with that if you had to,
Speaker 1: you know, if you had a good antenna. UM. But um,
Speaker 1: I still think they're I think we've we've pushed it,
Speaker 1: you know, as far as the number of channels that
Speaker 1: are there, and I think there's only so much dr
Speaker 1: money around that. You know, it certainly has taken taken
Speaker 1: some out of the syndication pocket. There's no question about that.
Speaker 1: In terms of some of the lower end advert no question,
Speaker 1: no question about it. And and I think you know,
Speaker 1: stations that are fourth or fifth or sixth in the
Speaker 1: market have suffered too. For some of these stronger dig
Speaker 1: nets and those are typically on the third party ones
Speaker 1: that you are not that you just you say, at
Speaker 1: least the space, those are typically barter deals revenue. No,
Speaker 1: we we don't sell our on on our particular digit nets.
Speaker 1: We don't sell any of the add times. So it
Speaker 1: gets sold and you know, we get a piece of
Speaker 1: that depending on what markets we're in, you know, et cetera.
Speaker 1: So let's take a step back a little bit and
Speaker 1: just I'd love to ask you, just in the big picture,
Speaker 1: how has your how has the world for the Fox
Speaker 1: television stations changed from an operational basis, now that the
Speaker 1: now that the that the separation from Century Fox, that
Speaker 1: that Disney deal is now lock stock and done. How
Speaker 1: has your job changed? You know, it's interesting, I you know,
Speaker 1: our day to day doesn't feel that much different, but
Speaker 1: there certainly is a lot more collaboration, you know, having
Speaker 1: four companies in this as part of this bigger company. Um,
Speaker 1: you know, I think his spurred you know that, and
Speaker 1: coupled with us A bunch of us moved back to
Speaker 1: the West coast, so we're also of in the same space.
Speaker 1: You know, a lot of the time, I think it's
Speaker 1: been really sparred. A lot of collaboration and and just
Speaker 1: communication people and you know, are much more aware of
Speaker 1: what everybody else is doing. And there've been actual committees
Speaker 1: set up between the network and the stations, between stations
Speaker 1: and sports how do we best exploit the platforms that
Speaker 1: we have and more importantly, the product that we have, um,
Speaker 1: you know, across all of these areas. And and I
Speaker 1: know um Lachlan Murdoch is laser focused on that, on
Speaker 1: it being one company, which now is doable because it's
Speaker 1: those four divisions essentially Fox News, Fox Sports, Fox Broadcast
Speaker 1: Co and Fox Television Stations. You can count them on
Speaker 1: one hand, it you can. Yeah, you know, I don't
Speaker 1: know how many hands you needed, you know before that,
Speaker 1: but before it was like a company of plus people. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and and but what's been really cool about it too
Speaker 1: is you know we were sort of the division that
Speaker 1: you know, it was run out of the East Coast,
Speaker 1: and you know, we were sort of here but being
Speaker 1: out there, you know, we have a lot of folks
Speaker 1: that work in these different areas saying, well, what so,
Speaker 1: how did this happen? What did I see that you
Speaker 1: just you guys just did And you know, they're much
Speaker 1: more curious about how we do our day to day.
Speaker 1: I mean, and everybody knew we made money, but um,
Speaker 1: you know, I think that's really sort of exciting too.
Speaker 1: And I'm meeting a lot of new people in a
Speaker 1: lot of these areas that I never met before, and
Speaker 1: and it's it's been great from that standpoint too. You've
Speaker 1: been in Fox, You've seen so a company that's always
Speaker 1: been innovative and at the forefront, but it's very birth
Speaker 1: as a network was disruptive. What do you and you've
Speaker 1: been there for so long, what keeps you engaged in
Speaker 1: the business. The idea that I have to say, it's
Speaker 1: it's been incredible to work at a place where the
Speaker 1: fear is never to fail. The fear is to not
Speaker 1: think of new stuff. I don't think I can put
Speaker 1: it anymore simple than that, because that that it has
Speaker 1: been true since the day I drove on the Fox lot,
Speaker 1: And there was always that idea that don't ever worry
Speaker 1: about your crazy idea is not working, you know, worry
Speaker 1: about not having crazy ideas, you know, um, and that
Speaker 1: keeping things the same we're never was never going to
Speaker 1: be good enough. And that was every boss I have
Speaker 1: worked for in that company. That comes from the head down, yeah, question,
Speaker 1: and that that was and that was real, and that
Speaker 1: was you could you could feel it, you know, and
Speaker 1: I was there, you know early, you know, the Fox
Speaker 1: wasn't even seven nights yet as as a network. But
Speaker 1: I remember sort of things like, you know, which I
Speaker 1: have nothing to do with, um, things like you know,
Speaker 1: moving you know, Simpson's next to Cosby, Yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: and then obviously the NFL and station acquisitions and all
Speaker 1: the other gigantic things that the company did. But you
Speaker 1: you know, there was always a sense of something cool
Speaker 1: was right around the corner, you know. And I think
Speaker 1: it's still true now, I really do, I really do so,
Speaker 1: no question. No. Now it's a sunny front row seat
Speaker 1: because we're back in Los Angeles, so it's uh, it's
Speaker 1: it's terrific. Thank you, Frank Well, thank you for braving
Speaker 1: the East again. And it's difficult, yes, but thank you
Speaker 1: for having me very much. I appreciate it. Thanks for listening.
Speaker 1: Be sure to tune in next week for another edition
Speaker 1: of Strictly Business.