1 00:00:06,480 --> 00:00:11,000 Speaker 1: Welcome to Strictly Business Varieties weekly podcast featuring conversations with 2 00:00:11,039 --> 00:00:14,640 Speaker 1: industry leaders about the business of media and entertainment. I'm 3 00:00:14,680 --> 00:00:18,000 Speaker 1: Andrew Wallenstein, Varieties co editor in chief and co host 4 00:00:18,120 --> 00:00:22,840 Speaker 1: of this podcast with Cynthia Littleton, Variety Business Editor. Today's 5 00:00:22,880 --> 00:00:26,920 Speaker 1: guest is Frank Sica, Executive VP of Programming for Fox 6 00:00:26,960 --> 00:00:30,880 Speaker 1: TV Stations. Frank is a nearly thirty year veteran of Fox, 7 00:00:30,880 --> 00:00:33,279 Speaker 1: and he has been calling the shots on programming for 8 00:00:33,320 --> 00:00:35,559 Speaker 1: the O and O group for more than a decade. 9 00:00:36,120 --> 00:00:40,320 Speaker 1: In his conversation with Cynthia, Frank is characteristically blunt about 10 00:00:40,320 --> 00:00:43,400 Speaker 1: the challenges that local TV stations face in the era 11 00:00:43,440 --> 00:00:48,560 Speaker 1: of fragmentation, particularly in daytime. He explains Fox's strategy of 12 00:00:48,680 --> 00:00:52,919 Speaker 1: conducting regional tests of prospective new syndicated shows and how 13 00:00:52,960 --> 00:00:56,480 Speaker 1: that's benefited the group. Frank also gives his perspective and 14 00:00:56,520 --> 00:00:58,760 Speaker 1: how life has changed that Fox since most of the 15 00:00:58,800 --> 00:01:05,600 Speaker 1: company was sold to is n Franks, executive vice president 16 00:01:05,600 --> 00:01:09,559 Speaker 1: of Programming for Fox Television Stations, in a twenty eight 17 00:01:09,640 --> 00:01:13,959 Speaker 1: year and counting Fox veteran, Thank you for stopping by. 18 00:01:14,280 --> 00:01:16,679 Speaker 1: My pleasure, Thanks thanks for having me. Nice to be 19 00:01:16,720 --> 00:01:19,800 Speaker 1: back in New York Um. Nice to have a beautiful 20 00:01:19,880 --> 00:01:22,800 Speaker 1: view in this great new building. So thanks for thanks 21 00:01:22,800 --> 00:01:25,200 Speaker 1: for inviting us. Things are good here down in what 22 00:01:25,240 --> 00:01:27,880 Speaker 1: do they call it Midtown East these days? Here, Yeah, 23 00:01:27,880 --> 00:01:30,000 Speaker 1: it's it's a little rainy and overcast, but it's nice. 24 00:01:30,000 --> 00:01:32,039 Speaker 1: It's a beautiful fall in New York day. Let's talk 25 00:01:32,080 --> 00:01:35,039 Speaker 1: about the programming that is coming out of Fox Television stations. 26 00:01:35,200 --> 00:01:37,560 Speaker 1: For the last couple of years, you've clearly been on 27 00:01:37,600 --> 00:01:40,959 Speaker 1: a ramp up of doing a lot more in house development, 28 00:01:41,080 --> 00:01:44,160 Speaker 1: a lot of some very adventurous formats, trying to break 29 00:01:44,200 --> 00:01:47,200 Speaker 1: the mold. You are known for being very candid in 30 00:01:47,280 --> 00:01:51,000 Speaker 1: your assessment of shows and what is needed, what kind 31 00:01:51,000 --> 00:01:54,880 Speaker 1: of fresh thinking and fresh ideas are needed in daytime, 32 00:01:54,920 --> 00:01:58,440 Speaker 1: which I think everybody would agree is a very challenging, 33 00:01:59,560 --> 00:02:02,640 Speaker 1: challenging day part to program to right now, with the 34 00:02:02,680 --> 00:02:06,080 Speaker 1: slice of the audience being so tiny and spread among 35 00:02:06,200 --> 00:02:09,720 Speaker 1: so many outlets, can you talk about sort of what 36 00:02:09,720 --> 00:02:13,680 Speaker 1: what inspired you guys to really invest in your own 37 00:02:14,040 --> 00:02:17,440 Speaker 1: original content, original development and and this is something that 38 00:02:17,480 --> 00:02:21,960 Speaker 1: started even before the company underwent the separation with Disney. 39 00:02:22,000 --> 00:02:23,800 Speaker 1: This started a couple of years ago at least, I 40 00:02:23,800 --> 00:02:26,320 Speaker 1: mean I think there always was. For a while, twenty 41 00:02:26,480 --> 00:02:29,440 Speaker 1: Television you know, reported to us, and so there were 42 00:02:29,480 --> 00:02:33,919 Speaker 1: always projects in development, development and being produced. I think, um, 43 00:02:33,960 --> 00:02:37,800 Speaker 1: you know, we learned a long time ago that um, 44 00:02:38,600 --> 00:02:40,720 Speaker 1: he was important to produce some of our own stuff, 45 00:02:40,720 --> 00:02:43,200 Speaker 1: but be to also realized that we couldn't do it 46 00:02:43,240 --> 00:02:46,640 Speaker 1: all ourselves, and that a balance was very very important. 47 00:02:46,680 --> 00:02:48,840 Speaker 1: And I won't go through the list of projects that 48 00:02:48,880 --> 00:02:52,280 Speaker 1: had to fail before we realized we couldn't do it 49 00:02:52,280 --> 00:02:56,320 Speaker 1: all ourselves, but um, that is a fact. So you know, 50 00:02:56,360 --> 00:03:00,320 Speaker 1: as much as we're you know, doing our own programming, UM, 51 00:03:00,360 --> 00:03:02,639 Speaker 1: you know, the partnerships we have with out side distributors 52 00:03:02,639 --> 00:03:06,040 Speaker 1: are more important than ever as well, because there's just 53 00:03:06,160 --> 00:03:08,560 Speaker 1: less of them, you know. And you know, again we 54 00:03:08,600 --> 00:03:11,119 Speaker 1: have a lot of shelf space to fill across two 55 00:03:11,120 --> 00:03:13,600 Speaker 1: stations and a lot of big markets. So you know, 56 00:03:13,720 --> 00:03:16,200 Speaker 1: that sort of balance between what we do ourselves and 57 00:03:16,600 --> 00:03:18,360 Speaker 1: you know, what we bring in from the outside is 58 00:03:18,480 --> 00:03:22,560 Speaker 1: um is more important than ever, and as well as 59 00:03:22,600 --> 00:03:25,040 Speaker 1: the idea that we need to do more and take 60 00:03:25,080 --> 00:03:28,800 Speaker 1: more swings than ever. I mean, lest I would say, 61 00:03:29,120 --> 00:03:31,359 Speaker 1: over the last decade or so, you know, we were 62 00:03:31,400 --> 00:03:33,480 Speaker 1: scratching our heads all the time, like why did why 63 00:03:33,520 --> 00:03:36,520 Speaker 1: do things only happen in September? Or why do you 64 00:03:36,560 --> 00:03:38,800 Speaker 1: know failed shows stay on for the year if not 65 00:03:38,920 --> 00:03:40,880 Speaker 1: two years? You know, we just didn't understand that. We 66 00:03:40,920 --> 00:03:43,800 Speaker 1: certainly think it contributed to a lot of our ratings erosion. 67 00:03:44,440 --> 00:03:47,600 Speaker 1: Um And I think that's true with our competitors as well. 68 00:03:47,680 --> 00:03:50,040 Speaker 1: So the idea of trying to figure out new ways 69 00:03:50,080 --> 00:03:53,960 Speaker 1: to bring more shows to the table for whatever length 70 00:03:53,960 --> 00:03:57,120 Speaker 1: of time, three weeks, five weeks, and god knows these 71 00:03:57,160 --> 00:04:00,440 Speaker 1: days on cable, you know, the runs are six episodes, 72 00:04:00,480 --> 00:04:03,720 Speaker 1: eight episodes, you know, unheard of a decade ago, fifteen 73 00:04:03,760 --> 00:04:06,880 Speaker 1: years ago, it's now this this the standard. Even in broadcast, 74 00:04:07,240 --> 00:04:12,840 Speaker 1: you know, you don't see as many full episode orders. Um, 75 00:04:12,920 --> 00:04:14,880 Speaker 1: So why should that be any different in what we do? 76 00:04:15,040 --> 00:04:17,120 Speaker 1: And I think in the end it comes down to 77 00:04:17,240 --> 00:04:20,240 Speaker 1: just having the right partners who are willing to think differently, 78 00:04:20,720 --> 00:04:25,640 Speaker 1: and that has been a challenge in certain circumstances. But um, overall, 79 00:04:25,680 --> 00:04:28,039 Speaker 1: I think people are starting to see that it's better 80 00:04:28,040 --> 00:04:31,919 Speaker 1: to take a look at more things and eureka, you know, 81 00:04:31,960 --> 00:04:35,560 Speaker 1: potentially lose less money by even doing that, um than 82 00:04:35,680 --> 00:04:38,680 Speaker 1: taking these gigantic swings and and you know, and really 83 00:04:38,760 --> 00:04:41,200 Speaker 1: hurting the bottom line and having stations you know, fail 84 00:04:41,360 --> 00:04:44,520 Speaker 1: and have time periods fail Now doesn't mean you can't 85 00:04:44,560 --> 00:04:47,680 Speaker 1: have big swings. And we've seen enough of those in 86 00:04:47,720 --> 00:04:49,839 Speaker 1: the last few years. And there's a couple now that 87 00:04:49,880 --> 00:04:52,240 Speaker 1: actually I think of doing, you know, sort of okay, 88 00:04:52,279 --> 00:04:56,320 Speaker 1: and that's great for the business, but I think we 89 00:04:56,360 --> 00:04:59,120 Speaker 1: sort of start with this volume. We want to do 90 00:04:59,160 --> 00:05:00,800 Speaker 1: as many things we can and so twelve months a 91 00:05:00,880 --> 00:05:04,679 Speaker 1: year we all have new stuff and and that's actually 92 00:05:04,880 --> 00:05:09,600 Speaker 1: my goal, you know, Um, especially now without a syndication 93 00:05:09,640 --> 00:05:13,200 Speaker 1: company reporting to us, which has been true for a 94 00:05:13,200 --> 00:05:18,560 Speaker 1: few years. Um, you know, without that sort of how 95 00:05:18,600 --> 00:05:22,400 Speaker 1: are they doing idea? Um, you know, there's no other 96 00:05:22,440 --> 00:05:24,840 Speaker 1: concerns other than trying to get as much first run 97 00:05:24,960 --> 00:05:28,040 Speaker 1: stuff on as possible. At least for me, that's the 98 00:05:28,160 --> 00:05:30,680 Speaker 1: big deal. And you and Fox has been very much 99 00:05:30,760 --> 00:05:35,320 Speaker 1: pioneer in in in developing concepts and as you say, 100 00:05:35,320 --> 00:05:37,920 Speaker 1: putting them on for short runs three weeks, five weeks 101 00:05:38,000 --> 00:05:40,440 Speaker 1: and a couple of markets so you can just kind 102 00:05:40,440 --> 00:05:43,039 Speaker 1: of test and get a sense of the pulse of 103 00:05:43,080 --> 00:05:46,159 Speaker 1: the show and how people, how people respond to the talent, 104 00:05:46,640 --> 00:05:50,359 Speaker 1: and you talk about are there difficult things in terms 105 00:05:50,360 --> 00:05:54,360 Speaker 1: of like structuring contracts and deals for a three week 106 00:05:54,440 --> 00:05:56,479 Speaker 1: run a five week run. Is that kind of what 107 00:05:56,480 --> 00:05:58,640 Speaker 1: what you were saying, when you need partners that will 108 00:05:58,680 --> 00:06:01,400 Speaker 1: be more open up, like you know, they you know, 109 00:06:01,440 --> 00:06:04,719 Speaker 1: the partners need to understand the endgame, and you know, 110 00:06:04,760 --> 00:06:06,800 Speaker 1: the the end game is both of us have a hit. 111 00:06:07,440 --> 00:06:10,160 Speaker 1: You know, how we get there has sort of changed, 112 00:06:10,440 --> 00:06:15,400 Speaker 1: I think, And uh, you know, it's for years people said, 113 00:06:15,440 --> 00:06:17,480 Speaker 1: well it's a one in twenty business. You know, you 114 00:06:17,520 --> 00:06:19,320 Speaker 1: known one out of twenty, you know goes to year 115 00:06:19,360 --> 00:06:21,920 Speaker 1: two or year three. Well you know, well then let's 116 00:06:21,920 --> 00:06:24,279 Speaker 1: do sixty of them, you know, and and you know, 117 00:06:24,279 --> 00:06:27,440 Speaker 1: and try to improve that batting average. But for sure, 118 00:06:27,600 --> 00:06:32,280 Speaker 1: you know, structurally, uh, it can get challenging. But if 119 00:06:32,320 --> 00:06:35,680 Speaker 1: if both sides have the same sort of endgame, you 120 00:06:35,720 --> 00:06:39,240 Speaker 1: can get to it um And that's been really encouraging 121 00:06:39,360 --> 00:06:42,000 Speaker 1: over the last couple of years, especially where you know, 122 00:06:42,080 --> 00:06:46,600 Speaker 1: Jerry O'Connell filled in within those wendy time periods for us, 123 00:06:46,720 --> 00:06:49,479 Speaker 1: which was just terrific because that's a real test. Now 124 00:06:49,560 --> 00:06:52,680 Speaker 1: that's not me picking four markets saying, you know and 125 00:06:52,839 --> 00:06:56,520 Speaker 1: praying that this is sort of a real look at 126 00:06:56,560 --> 00:07:03,479 Speaker 1: a well produced television program across the country. Um, well, 127 00:07:03,480 --> 00:07:05,640 Speaker 1: that's a real test. And by the way, we all 128 00:07:05,640 --> 00:07:08,080 Speaker 1: got more first front programming as a result of it, 129 00:07:08,200 --> 00:07:11,120 Speaker 1: So right, and the Wendy Williams Show, which is kind 130 00:07:11,120 --> 00:07:13,640 Speaker 1: of the poster child for this process. That Wendy Williams 131 00:07:13,680 --> 00:07:17,600 Speaker 1: began as a limited test over the summer and then 132 00:07:18,200 --> 00:07:21,840 Speaker 1: clearly you saw, you know, the indications were very positive. 133 00:07:22,160 --> 00:07:24,320 Speaker 1: You went national and then this was in partnership with 134 00:07:24,400 --> 00:07:27,280 Speaker 1: lions Gate and deb Mar Mercury. You went national and 135 00:07:27,360 --> 00:07:31,600 Speaker 1: here ten years later, it's it's still very French. It 136 00:07:31,640 --> 00:07:33,760 Speaker 1: was fun. A couple of weeks ago, we had the 137 00:07:33,760 --> 00:07:37,360 Speaker 1: star dedication, you know, on the on the Hollywood Walk 138 00:07:37,360 --> 00:07:41,720 Speaker 1: of Fame and uh, um, you know, we're lucky enough 139 00:07:41,760 --> 00:07:43,600 Speaker 1: to be there for that, and that sort of was 140 00:07:43,680 --> 00:07:46,520 Speaker 1: fun to think about how the test was sort of 141 00:07:46,560 --> 00:07:50,120 Speaker 1: a chair and a camera, a couple of drapes behind her, 142 00:07:50,280 --> 00:07:53,320 Speaker 1: you know, in a disco bawl. And uh, you know, 143 00:07:53,400 --> 00:07:56,280 Speaker 1: ten years later, she's she's on the Walk of Fame. 144 00:07:56,400 --> 00:07:59,360 Speaker 1: So we're we're happy and for her and proud of her. 145 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:03,840 Speaker 1: What he works harder. Um, but when I think about 146 00:08:03,840 --> 00:08:07,040 Speaker 1: all the projects we've done, since then. It just goes 147 00:08:07,120 --> 00:08:09,240 Speaker 1: to show how hard it is to do right, you 148 00:08:09,280 --> 00:08:12,120 Speaker 1: know it is it is. It is tough to do 149 00:08:12,320 --> 00:08:14,880 Speaker 1: what other than ratings. And I'm curious if there are 150 00:08:15,520 --> 00:08:18,320 Speaker 1: markets outside of the obvious New York at a Chicago 151 00:08:18,600 --> 00:08:20,600 Speaker 1: that you like to go to to kind of get 152 00:08:20,600 --> 00:08:24,840 Speaker 1: a representative sense of good question. I mean, it's it's 153 00:08:24,880 --> 00:08:29,200 Speaker 1: funny because, um, you know this, many years into doing this, 154 00:08:29,880 --> 00:08:32,200 Speaker 1: we realize there are certain stations we can put anything 155 00:08:32,240 --> 00:08:35,600 Speaker 1: on and it'll and it'll rate. You know, I don't 156 00:08:35,679 --> 00:08:39,000 Speaker 1: I don't need to get specific about that, but you 157 00:08:39,040 --> 00:08:41,680 Speaker 1: know there there we you know, are in our Dallas 158 00:08:41,720 --> 00:08:44,280 Speaker 1: station you know has never had a test that didn't 159 00:08:44,280 --> 00:08:46,760 Speaker 1: do good ratings. Detroit, you know there's a there's a 160 00:08:46,760 --> 00:08:49,200 Speaker 1: whole handful of them. So you know, you you'll put 161 00:08:49,240 --> 00:08:53,520 Speaker 1: those on because you'll see if a lot of people 162 00:08:53,520 --> 00:08:56,640 Speaker 1: bail from whatever the leading might be. It's obvious maybe 163 00:08:56,640 --> 00:08:59,560 Speaker 1: there's an issue, but um, you know a lot of 164 00:08:59,559 --> 00:09:01,480 Speaker 1: what we want look at is to help help the 165 00:09:02,000 --> 00:09:05,880 Speaker 1: top markets. And and you know in New York, Uh, 166 00:09:06,080 --> 00:09:10,199 Speaker 1: to me, is is the most important if you can, 167 00:09:10,320 --> 00:09:12,320 Speaker 1: if you can, you know, make some hay there and 168 00:09:12,320 --> 00:09:14,160 Speaker 1: then after that Los Angeles. But again in l A 169 00:09:14,200 --> 00:09:17,160 Speaker 1: there's a so few rating points around that it's it's 170 00:09:17,440 --> 00:09:20,800 Speaker 1: harder to judge. Um New York, there are still platforms 171 00:09:20,800 --> 00:09:23,200 Speaker 1: where you can put things and really judge, you know, 172 00:09:23,240 --> 00:09:26,680 Speaker 1: without saying, you know, names of shows that failed. We 173 00:09:26,720 --> 00:09:29,839 Speaker 1: had one where, you know, got a great lead in 174 00:09:31,600 --> 00:09:35,679 Speaker 1: people ran, they didn't walk away from the set, they right, 175 00:09:35,720 --> 00:09:38,640 Speaker 1: and then they came back, you know, and an hour later. 176 00:09:39,280 --> 00:09:42,160 Speaker 1: So as long as we can get those kind of 177 00:09:42,160 --> 00:09:44,840 Speaker 1: reads in a in a big market like this in 178 00:09:44,880 --> 00:09:47,400 Speaker 1: New York, you know, we can get it real, a 179 00:09:47,440 --> 00:09:49,800 Speaker 1: real taste of it. And your savings in a test 180 00:09:49,920 --> 00:09:53,559 Speaker 1: if you were too, if you were to have roll 181 00:09:53,640 --> 00:09:56,080 Speaker 1: the dice on a national rollout, your savings in the 182 00:09:56,080 --> 00:10:01,160 Speaker 1: test can be measured in seven figures. Yes, so absolutely, 183 00:10:01,280 --> 00:10:04,200 Speaker 1: and and it's funny because we've been pitched shows that 184 00:10:04,240 --> 00:10:07,120 Speaker 1: we're supposed to be. If you asked the distributor national 185 00:10:07,160 --> 00:10:09,719 Speaker 1: launches designed for national launchs, we refused to do that, 186 00:10:10,000 --> 00:10:14,160 Speaker 1: have done tests failed, and then said, boy, what a 187 00:10:14,160 --> 00:10:18,200 Speaker 1: good thing. You're welcome exactly that that we didn't go 188 00:10:18,320 --> 00:10:21,120 Speaker 1: forward nationally with that. You know, there's a difference between 189 00:10:21,600 --> 00:10:25,240 Speaker 1: selling something because you can and selling something because it's 190 00:10:25,240 --> 00:10:28,520 Speaker 1: the right project or that it fits in stations lineup 191 00:10:28,520 --> 00:10:32,320 Speaker 1: so that the marketplace wants it, you know, So you know, 192 00:10:32,880 --> 00:10:34,880 Speaker 1: it's all a big learning process and that and that's 193 00:10:35,160 --> 00:10:37,000 Speaker 1: you know, part of the fun of it. And you're 194 00:10:37,000 --> 00:10:39,199 Speaker 1: one of your pritors. This fall has been the national 195 00:10:39,280 --> 00:10:42,840 Speaker 1: rollout of Words or Less, a game show hosted by 196 00:10:42,880 --> 00:10:46,000 Speaker 1: Meredith Vieira. It's a real kind of a unicorn in 197 00:10:46,400 --> 00:10:49,319 Speaker 1: an original format. My god, in this day and age, 198 00:10:49,360 --> 00:10:52,480 Speaker 1: that's a headline unto itself. And getting somebody like Meredith, 199 00:10:52,640 --> 00:10:57,920 Speaker 1: who you know, incredibly accomplished, respected, well known TV personality, 200 00:10:58,000 --> 00:11:00,160 Speaker 1: that's got to be, you know, kind of a kind 201 00:11:00,160 --> 00:11:03,040 Speaker 1: of a nice perfect storm for you, no question. And 202 00:11:03,040 --> 00:11:06,800 Speaker 1: and I remember that test. I remember that pitch. I 203 00:11:06,880 --> 00:11:12,320 Speaker 1: give Steven Brown and Jack Abernathy were perhaps more supportive 204 00:11:12,320 --> 00:11:15,600 Speaker 1: of the actual idea than even I was, because I 205 00:11:15,600 --> 00:11:19,480 Speaker 1: think game show pitches play well in the room. That's 206 00:11:19,480 --> 00:11:21,559 Speaker 1: sort of a new way to come and pitch. Game 207 00:11:21,600 --> 00:11:24,160 Speaker 1: shows is like set up a whole thing and play 208 00:11:25,400 --> 00:11:28,480 Speaker 1: and that's great, But that doesn't mean anybody's gonna want 209 00:11:28,480 --> 00:11:32,719 Speaker 1: to watch, you know, um, But we thought there was 210 00:11:32,800 --> 00:11:35,440 Speaker 1: enough there in the actual game Um, you know, it 211 00:11:35,480 --> 00:11:38,320 Speaker 1: had its success as a board game, and you know 212 00:11:38,840 --> 00:11:42,560 Speaker 1: that was great, but UM really attaching mereth to it. 213 00:11:42,760 --> 00:11:45,600 Speaker 1: I give Steven credit for that. UM really sort of 214 00:11:45,679 --> 00:11:48,040 Speaker 1: up the antie on that. And I remember the list 215 00:11:48,040 --> 00:11:51,000 Speaker 1: of hosts that that they were sort of considering, and 216 00:11:51,240 --> 00:11:53,200 Speaker 1: there was some really good people in there. But she 217 00:11:53,200 --> 00:11:57,240 Speaker 1: she was a game changer as far as no pun intended. UM, 218 00:11:57,360 --> 00:11:59,800 Speaker 1: that was a big deal bringing her in and and 219 00:12:00,080 --> 00:12:02,640 Speaker 1: you know, she was super professional with sort of a 220 00:12:02,679 --> 00:12:05,800 Speaker 1: short runway to ramp up, you know, for the the 221 00:12:05,800 --> 00:12:08,640 Speaker 1: original test and uh. And it's been nothing but a 222 00:12:08,679 --> 00:12:13,199 Speaker 1: pleasure to work with h on the show itself. Which interestingly, 223 00:12:13,200 --> 00:12:15,160 Speaker 1: another great thing about this format is you can wrap 224 00:12:15,200 --> 00:12:17,680 Speaker 1: it in a couple of months for the year and 225 00:12:17,679 --> 00:12:20,199 Speaker 1: and you know that keeps the costs in this hemisphere, 226 00:12:20,679 --> 00:12:23,720 Speaker 1: which is which is nice. UM. So we're real happy 227 00:12:23,760 --> 00:12:27,160 Speaker 1: with with the job. And in success, you'll own that format. 228 00:12:27,200 --> 00:12:30,480 Speaker 1: That format will be part of last Yeah. In fact, 229 00:12:30,480 --> 00:12:33,760 Speaker 1: from what I'm told, there's interest in the format UM 230 00:12:33,800 --> 00:12:36,040 Speaker 1: in other countries, in a couple of other countries. So 231 00:12:36,280 --> 00:12:38,439 Speaker 1: you know, any anything we could do to sort of 232 00:12:38,480 --> 00:12:42,200 Speaker 1: bolster the situation would be terrific. But Yeah, that one's ours, 233 00:12:42,480 --> 00:12:48,360 Speaker 1: which we're happy about. Um. You talked about it a 234 00:12:48,440 --> 00:12:50,720 Speaker 1: little bit. But you know, one of the hard things 235 00:12:50,720 --> 00:12:54,000 Speaker 1: about programming daytime is, as you said, what you know 236 00:12:54,120 --> 00:12:57,880 Speaker 1: is a point three cancelation and a point five is renewed. 237 00:12:58,520 --> 00:13:02,000 Speaker 1: The marketplace in daytime is so diffuse across so many 238 00:13:02,040 --> 00:13:05,800 Speaker 1: platforms that it's it's got to be so hard to 239 00:13:05,840 --> 00:13:07,760 Speaker 1: be it's gotta be so hard to program. Not that 240 00:13:07,800 --> 00:13:10,200 Speaker 1: it was ever easy to program, but to get a 241 00:13:10,200 --> 00:13:11,880 Speaker 1: sense of what's working and what people are going to 242 00:13:11,960 --> 00:13:15,120 Speaker 1: respond to with the numbers being some microscript yeah, I mean, 243 00:13:15,440 --> 00:13:18,280 Speaker 1: you know, and you know, unfortunately, the reality is a 244 00:13:18,280 --> 00:13:22,679 Speaker 1: lot of its economics. Um. You know, there are certain 245 00:13:22,840 --> 00:13:25,439 Speaker 1: rating levels that a distributor can make money at nationally, 246 00:13:25,480 --> 00:13:29,000 Speaker 1: and there's certain ones that that there aren't. Um and 247 00:13:29,000 --> 00:13:31,640 Speaker 1: and that is that is the struggle. I think that 248 00:13:32,360 --> 00:13:34,200 Speaker 1: the good news is over the last few years there 249 00:13:34,200 --> 00:13:38,240 Speaker 1: seems to be more projects being launched and and being attempted, 250 00:13:38,320 --> 00:13:41,320 Speaker 1: which I mean, that's the hope. I mean that that's 251 00:13:41,360 --> 00:13:44,480 Speaker 1: what will save us, is is that idea that like 252 00:13:44,520 --> 00:13:49,480 Speaker 1: people continue to take swings, and you're right there there 253 00:13:49,480 --> 00:13:52,560 Speaker 1: are It gets to a to a sort of a 254 00:13:52,600 --> 00:13:54,440 Speaker 1: thin level. You're they are looking at a couple of 255 00:13:54,480 --> 00:13:58,360 Speaker 1: tents you know here are there particularly nationally? Um? And 256 00:13:58,800 --> 00:14:01,320 Speaker 1: from there you have to disaw, you know, and what 257 00:14:01,400 --> 00:14:04,800 Speaker 1: you have to decide is, you know, why is this 258 00:14:04,840 --> 00:14:08,240 Speaker 1: going to get better? Because I think it's very easy 259 00:14:08,280 --> 00:14:10,959 Speaker 1: for anybody to talk themselves into why something can stay on. 260 00:14:11,240 --> 00:14:12,880 Speaker 1: It's a good idea that I think we should keep 261 00:14:12,920 --> 00:14:15,280 Speaker 1: this on because we can. We should keep this on. 262 00:14:16,000 --> 00:14:18,320 Speaker 1: But why would you do it if you didn't really 263 00:14:18,320 --> 00:14:20,120 Speaker 1: think it was going to get better? And why is 264 00:14:20,120 --> 00:14:24,920 Speaker 1: it going to get better? You know? What's the plan here? So? Um? 265 00:14:25,000 --> 00:14:29,720 Speaker 1: You know all that all of it plays in looks around. 266 00:14:29,720 --> 00:14:31,520 Speaker 1: I I still love to go back to the show 267 00:14:31,560 --> 00:14:33,520 Speaker 1: and does it fit in our lineup? We we did 268 00:14:33,600 --> 00:14:36,760 Speaker 1: one um recently where it just was something that just 269 00:14:36,840 --> 00:14:40,360 Speaker 1: did not fit in what we do and and it 270 00:14:40,440 --> 00:14:42,760 Speaker 1: was clear, it was so clear, And what we learned 271 00:14:42,760 --> 00:14:44,480 Speaker 1: from it is that yet we have to be broader. 272 00:14:44,520 --> 00:14:46,960 Speaker 1: We really have to pay attention to who's watching our stations. 273 00:14:47,000 --> 00:14:50,920 Speaker 1: It sounds obvious, but it doesn't always happen, um and 274 00:14:50,920 --> 00:14:54,400 Speaker 1: and program to those people and and uh, you know 275 00:14:54,400 --> 00:14:57,160 Speaker 1: which means for us anyway a little broader or a 276 00:14:57,200 --> 00:14:59,320 Speaker 1: lot broader is really what we have to look at. 277 00:14:59,720 --> 00:15:02,720 Speaker 1: Do you differentiate regionally much? Because you have such a 278 00:15:02,800 --> 00:15:04,840 Speaker 1: large group covering so many markets, it's got to be 279 00:15:04,840 --> 00:15:06,600 Speaker 1: hard to find something that's gonna work in New York 280 00:15:06,600 --> 00:15:09,560 Speaker 1: and also work in Dallas and also work in San Francisco. Yeah, 281 00:15:09,640 --> 00:15:11,400 Speaker 1: I mean we don't. We don't sort of look that 282 00:15:11,440 --> 00:15:15,280 Speaker 1: way because the good shows will work everywhere, the hits 283 00:15:15,320 --> 00:15:20,720 Speaker 1: will work everywhere. But you have to you know, no, 284 00:15:21,160 --> 00:15:23,640 Speaker 1: I think you have to know that they can work 285 00:15:23,640 --> 00:15:26,600 Speaker 1: in a New York or in l A or San Francisco, 286 00:15:26,720 --> 00:15:28,640 Speaker 1: because you're not gonna be able to produce them into 287 00:15:28,680 --> 00:15:31,320 Speaker 1: a national show if you're not getting them in those 288 00:15:31,400 --> 00:15:33,400 Speaker 1: kind of markets. I think, you know, a lot of 289 00:15:33,400 --> 00:15:36,080 Speaker 1: our competitors that don't have those big markets, the groups 290 00:15:36,120 --> 00:15:38,360 Speaker 1: that sort of you know, have gone into production and 291 00:15:38,480 --> 00:15:42,000 Speaker 1: done shows. This did well in Memphis and then, but 292 00:15:42,600 --> 00:15:45,640 Speaker 1: that's not gonna matter, you know, if you think you're 293 00:15:45,640 --> 00:15:47,960 Speaker 1: going to go national, and so we really need to 294 00:15:48,000 --> 00:15:51,600 Speaker 1: know that. And uh, you know, I think we've done 295 00:15:51,640 --> 00:15:54,320 Speaker 1: some sort of regional things or teach some things up 296 00:15:54,360 --> 00:15:58,160 Speaker 1: for certain markets. Um years ago, we would do court 297 00:15:58,200 --> 00:16:01,600 Speaker 1: shows as tests in court blocks, and you know, New 298 00:16:01,640 --> 00:16:03,760 Speaker 1: York wasn't really doing that well at the time, and 299 00:16:03,800 --> 00:16:05,680 Speaker 1: so we didn't use New York. It was like, if 300 00:16:05,680 --> 00:16:07,560 Speaker 1: you could fit in a court block, though it should work. 301 00:16:07,680 --> 00:16:10,840 Speaker 1: You know, I can't remember the last test we did. 302 00:16:10,920 --> 00:16:13,080 Speaker 1: It didn't include New York. Now, you know, I think 303 00:16:13,080 --> 00:16:16,360 Speaker 1: it's really important. And again the hits, you can go 304 00:16:16,400 --> 00:16:18,840 Speaker 1: back a hundred years. Little Seinfeld wasn't gonna work because 305 00:16:18,840 --> 00:16:21,440 Speaker 1: it's a New York show, and you know, Judge Judy 306 00:16:21,480 --> 00:16:23,720 Speaker 1: is not gonna work in African American markets, and and 307 00:16:23,960 --> 00:16:26,360 Speaker 1: you know, you hear all these things, but a good 308 00:16:26,360 --> 00:16:29,600 Speaker 1: show transcends all of it. We're just a couple of 309 00:16:29,640 --> 00:16:32,880 Speaker 1: months out from the traditional sort of pivot point of 310 00:16:32,920 --> 00:16:36,640 Speaker 1: the syndication year, which is January. Obviously a little anachronistic 311 00:16:36,720 --> 00:16:39,440 Speaker 1: in the world that we live in, especially is for 312 00:16:39,600 --> 00:16:42,800 Speaker 1: the reasons you were just saying, but it is nonetheless 313 00:16:42,840 --> 00:16:44,320 Speaker 1: it is it is sort of a time of year 314 00:16:44,360 --> 00:16:47,640 Speaker 1: when when we start to get a sense of what 315 00:16:47,880 --> 00:16:49,640 Speaker 1: is going to be coming for the fall and what 316 00:16:49,760 --> 00:16:51,480 Speaker 1: you know, what may or may not be coming back 317 00:16:51,800 --> 00:16:54,280 Speaker 1: that could be on the fence. This year we've seen, 318 00:16:54,960 --> 00:16:58,040 Speaker 1: to my mind, it seems like the the some of 319 00:16:58,080 --> 00:17:01,080 Speaker 1: the larger distributors that are the First Run business have 320 00:17:01,120 --> 00:17:03,800 Speaker 1: a little more ambition this year. We've got some big 321 00:17:03,840 --> 00:17:06,960 Speaker 1: projects with Drew barrymore with Nick Cannon, some talk shows. 322 00:17:06,960 --> 00:17:10,680 Speaker 1: We're seeing some different formats of cooking and different kinds 323 00:17:10,680 --> 00:17:13,520 Speaker 1: of games. What do you think, since you deal with 324 00:17:13,560 --> 00:17:16,119 Speaker 1: all of the distributors, what do you think is accounting 325 00:17:16,160 --> 00:17:20,199 Speaker 1: for what's driving this you know uptick, not a surge, 326 00:17:20,200 --> 00:17:22,720 Speaker 1: but an uptick and interest in producing for First Run 327 00:17:22,880 --> 00:17:25,600 Speaker 1: when we when we just talked about the markets pretty challenged. Sure, 328 00:17:25,880 --> 00:17:28,120 Speaker 1: you know, I think part of it is this sort 329 00:17:28,160 --> 00:17:30,680 Speaker 1: of a new chene on on the station business over 330 00:17:30,720 --> 00:17:34,560 Speaker 1: the last few years, you know, between consolidation and acquisitions 331 00:17:34,680 --> 00:17:39,520 Speaker 1: and you know, cord cutting, um, the importance of or 332 00:17:39,560 --> 00:17:41,960 Speaker 1: re emergence if you will, of local news at times 333 00:17:41,960 --> 00:17:45,040 Speaker 1: of disaster and things that have gone on. You know 334 00:17:45,960 --> 00:17:49,159 Speaker 1: what what I remember hearing fifteen years ago, you know 335 00:17:49,240 --> 00:17:51,040 Speaker 1: we were old media, you know, and then we heard 336 00:17:51,080 --> 00:17:54,280 Speaker 1: it again ten years ago. Um, you know, we're still 337 00:17:54,320 --> 00:17:58,600 Speaker 1: here and and and still very profitable in many ways, 338 00:17:58,800 --> 00:18:01,959 Speaker 1: and still the largest sort of news and information you know, 339 00:18:02,080 --> 00:18:06,160 Speaker 1: for generals a week and every every survey will tell 340 00:18:06,160 --> 00:18:09,639 Speaker 1: you that local newscasts still in the world of you know, 341 00:18:09,720 --> 00:18:14,000 Speaker 1: digital and you know, communications on in a nanosecond. It's 342 00:18:14,040 --> 00:18:17,480 Speaker 1: pretty amazing that all the Pew research studies always say 343 00:18:17,520 --> 00:18:20,960 Speaker 1: always still local and national, but that local news. You know, 344 00:18:21,440 --> 00:18:22,600 Speaker 1: you get up in the morning, you need to know 345 00:18:22,640 --> 00:18:24,879 Speaker 1: what the weather is going to be. No, And and 346 00:18:24,920 --> 00:18:27,040 Speaker 1: looky myke. You know these days people will get it 347 00:18:27,080 --> 00:18:31,200 Speaker 1: on their phone, but it's still maybe the local station 348 00:18:31,840 --> 00:18:34,840 Speaker 1: on your phone. You know, it's consumed differently, but the 349 00:18:34,880 --> 00:18:38,560 Speaker 1: information still carries a lot of wallop, you know. And 350 00:18:38,600 --> 00:18:40,359 Speaker 1: you know, people would would ask you how do you 351 00:18:40,400 --> 00:18:42,919 Speaker 1: compete with the streamers and say, well, you know, when 352 00:18:43,280 --> 00:18:45,479 Speaker 1: when a hurricane happens, they don't go to Netflix, they 353 00:18:45,520 --> 00:18:47,840 Speaker 1: come to you know k R I V in Houston. 354 00:18:47,880 --> 00:18:52,960 Speaker 1: You know, we hope um and you know that's you know, 355 00:18:53,119 --> 00:18:55,439 Speaker 1: our future. I mean, that's we have to be. We 356 00:18:55,480 --> 00:18:58,560 Speaker 1: have to be number one in being that to people. 357 00:18:58,800 --> 00:19:03,760 Speaker 1: But I think overall again and the acquisitions, um, you know, 358 00:19:03,840 --> 00:19:07,240 Speaker 1: the company consolidation. I mean we're now one of four 359 00:19:07,280 --> 00:19:10,080 Speaker 1: companies in Fox where we used to be one of. 360 00:19:10,880 --> 00:19:16,360 Speaker 1: However many right now a much more diverse Yeah, so 361 00:19:16,640 --> 00:19:18,800 Speaker 1: you know, now we're looked at a little differently as well, 362 00:19:18,840 --> 00:19:21,399 Speaker 1: because we're sort of a bigger piece of the pie. 363 00:19:21,560 --> 00:19:24,119 Speaker 1: But and you also have these big companies that have 364 00:19:24,280 --> 00:19:27,960 Speaker 1: owned that own stations and they realize all the same 365 00:19:27,960 --> 00:19:29,640 Speaker 1: things that we do in a lot of ways. So 366 00:19:30,080 --> 00:19:32,719 Speaker 1: you know, if you're gonna thrive, you're gonna need shows, 367 00:19:33,640 --> 00:19:36,360 Speaker 1: you know. And you know, network models change. We've seen 368 00:19:36,400 --> 00:19:39,000 Speaker 1: soap operas go away and there's still some game shows on. 369 00:19:39,119 --> 00:19:43,000 Speaker 1: But um, get a hit in this business, you'd still 370 00:19:43,040 --> 00:19:46,200 Speaker 1: be okay. You know, everybody in media world is talking 371 00:19:46,240 --> 00:19:51,280 Speaker 1: about streaming and the audiences embrace of on demand platforms 372 00:19:51,280 --> 00:19:53,680 Speaker 1: that are obviously different than the than the live televi 373 00:19:53,840 --> 00:19:56,240 Speaker 1: you know, the live linear viewing that that we've all 374 00:19:56,240 --> 00:19:59,760 Speaker 1: grown up with. Um, what on the local level do 375 00:19:59,840 --> 00:20:04,280 Speaker 1: you see that is there demand? Is are the audiences 376 00:20:04,560 --> 00:20:08,640 Speaker 1: for even for local programming trying to trying to move online? 377 00:20:08,680 --> 00:20:11,199 Speaker 1: Do you feel like that your stations need to have 378 00:20:11,320 --> 00:20:14,240 Speaker 1: that have a streaming Yes, actually yeah, we do. We 379 00:20:14,240 --> 00:20:16,719 Speaker 1: were we think that for sure. Um, we we need 380 00:20:16,760 --> 00:20:19,480 Speaker 1: to be able to be consumed how people are consuming 381 00:20:19,720 --> 00:20:22,000 Speaker 1: and so yeah, we definitely need to be there. I 382 00:20:22,040 --> 00:20:24,880 Speaker 1: think there's a question whether or not our five day 383 00:20:24,880 --> 00:20:29,240 Speaker 1: a week programming, whether it's syndicated or local, is sort 384 00:20:29,240 --> 00:20:32,600 Speaker 1: of something that would work on a streamer because I 385 00:20:32,600 --> 00:20:35,320 Speaker 1: think people consume that differently. You know, they they're not 386 00:20:35,400 --> 00:20:37,520 Speaker 1: going there. I mean, I don't know how Jeopardy is 387 00:20:37,520 --> 00:20:40,280 Speaker 1: doing on Hulu or wherever they are. But you know, 388 00:20:40,320 --> 00:20:42,919 Speaker 1: we've had shows that we put up on streamers and 389 00:20:42,960 --> 00:20:46,919 Speaker 1: they just don't exist. So I don't know whether you 390 00:20:46,960 --> 00:20:50,000 Speaker 1: can take a hit syndicated show, even if it's first run, 391 00:20:50,080 --> 00:20:52,760 Speaker 1: put it on a streamer and and and have success 392 00:20:52,800 --> 00:20:54,639 Speaker 1: because that's not how it's consumed. You know what. We 393 00:20:54,760 --> 00:20:59,240 Speaker 1: do so much about habit, you know, um, so it 394 00:20:59,280 --> 00:21:01,400 Speaker 1: remains to be seeing let me ask you on the 395 00:21:01,400 --> 00:21:05,760 Speaker 1: flip side of the first run question. UM, you know 396 00:21:06,320 --> 00:21:08,919 Speaker 1: this is um. This has been an incredible time for 397 00:21:09,000 --> 00:21:12,159 Speaker 1: media right now and big companies taking you know, ninety 398 00:21:12,200 --> 00:21:16,040 Speaker 1: degree turns in their business models, Disney, A, T and T, 399 00:21:16,960 --> 00:21:21,720 Speaker 1: NBC going going big into the streaming platform business. All 400 00:21:21,760 --> 00:21:24,359 Speaker 1: of that is going to add up to, you know, 401 00:21:24,440 --> 00:21:28,000 Speaker 1: big changes in the supply chain of programming. You know, 402 00:21:28,359 --> 00:21:31,920 Speaker 1: off network shows, big hits, big hit off network shows 403 00:21:31,920 --> 00:21:34,359 Speaker 1: have been very important to the Fox TV station group. 404 00:21:34,359 --> 00:21:38,639 Speaker 1: Are you concerned that the supply of successful off network 405 00:21:38,680 --> 00:21:42,720 Speaker 1: shows is gonna win in the coming years. No, no, 406 00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:46,840 Speaker 1: And I think we sort of saw this common honestly 407 00:21:46,920 --> 00:21:50,240 Speaker 1: ten fifteen years ago when we when we started, I 408 00:21:50,240 --> 00:21:53,200 Speaker 1: mean obviously when they when they first started going to cable, 409 00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:57,640 Speaker 1: you knew things were changing. Um. True, when we bought 410 00:21:57,760 --> 00:22:01,280 Speaker 1: Big Bang Theory, we knew there was a a concarrent 411 00:22:01,320 --> 00:22:04,920 Speaker 1: cable window at least friends, you know, million years ago. 412 00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:08,240 Speaker 1: You had exclusive broadcast for a little while three years 413 00:22:08,280 --> 00:22:09,680 Speaker 1: I think, and then it went to turn or whatever. 414 00:22:10,240 --> 00:22:13,960 Speaker 1: So this was already starting to get brewing some time ago. 415 00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:17,080 Speaker 1: And then you had DVDs. That was a big problem. 416 00:22:17,119 --> 00:22:19,639 Speaker 1: I remember, with a big concern, I should say, with Seinfeld, 417 00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:21,399 Speaker 1: Oh my god, they're putting all out on DVD. What 418 00:22:21,440 --> 00:22:25,040 Speaker 1: are we gonna do? You know? So then iTunes comes 419 00:22:25,080 --> 00:22:28,199 Speaker 1: out and they're selling the shows on their on the 420 00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:31,920 Speaker 1: iTunes library, you can watch them on your iPad, And 421 00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:36,720 Speaker 1: so this was sort of manifesting itself for a while. 422 00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:40,960 Speaker 1: We sort of saw that. Um, we saw that coming. Now, 423 00:22:41,680 --> 00:22:45,560 Speaker 1: you know, it's sort of coincided to some degree with 424 00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:49,119 Speaker 1: for some reason, studios producing less of them are the 425 00:22:49,200 --> 00:22:52,520 Speaker 1: certainly less of them that worked. But between all of 426 00:22:52,560 --> 00:22:56,480 Speaker 1: those factors, you know, we we thought years ago that 427 00:22:56,840 --> 00:22:59,720 Speaker 1: you know, sitting around waiting for the next you know, 428 00:22:59,800 --> 00:23:01,399 Speaker 1: big go off net show was not going to be 429 00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:04,119 Speaker 1: the way to uh to do it if one came great. 430 00:23:04,359 --> 00:23:08,040 Speaker 1: But you know, I soon after we bought a Big Bang, 431 00:23:08,080 --> 00:23:11,040 Speaker 1: I think are our thought was, the next Big Bang 432 00:23:11,080 --> 00:23:12,879 Speaker 1: is going to go right to a streamer, you know, 433 00:23:12,920 --> 00:23:14,880 Speaker 1: the next next Big Bang We're not even gonna get 434 00:23:14,880 --> 00:23:18,040 Speaker 1: a sniff at, you know. And and as we've acted 435 00:23:18,080 --> 00:23:21,240 Speaker 1: sort of that way since then, and so would you 436 00:23:21,280 --> 00:23:24,400 Speaker 1: say that off network programming is less has become less 437 00:23:24,520 --> 00:23:28,080 Speaker 1: important for us for the station question? Look at the 438 00:23:28,200 --> 00:23:30,040 Speaker 1: big Bank still makes a lot of money, and we 439 00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:34,520 Speaker 1: were we're okay with the degree that we're in it, 440 00:23:34,560 --> 00:23:39,960 Speaker 1: but we also know that, um, it's waning. And and again, 441 00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:42,159 Speaker 1: you know, you look at the ratings in prime time. 442 00:23:42,600 --> 00:23:44,560 Speaker 1: You know, we had a and when we had the studio, 443 00:23:44,600 --> 00:23:46,600 Speaker 1: we used to get pitched all of these shows, I 444 00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:50,120 Speaker 1: mean legions of them, and they would all come through. 445 00:23:50,119 --> 00:23:51,960 Speaker 1: They would all come through where we would get because 446 00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:54,440 Speaker 1: they all have you know whatever three years in four 447 00:23:54,520 --> 00:23:56,200 Speaker 1: years in I'm not gonna mention any of the shows, 448 00:23:56,240 --> 00:23:58,119 Speaker 1: but the conversations would be like, well, why don't you 449 00:23:58,119 --> 00:24:01,080 Speaker 1: want this? Well extra about how great the show is. 450 00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:05,199 Speaker 1: It's a one rating in prime. That tells me it 451 00:24:05,240 --> 00:24:09,600 Speaker 1: doesn't really matter much in prime to the viewers. What's 452 00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:15,480 Speaker 1: it going to mean us even less? You know? Um? 453 00:24:15,560 --> 00:24:17,280 Speaker 1: And then I think when you you started to get 454 00:24:17,280 --> 00:24:19,760 Speaker 1: projects that people would want to bring out, but then 455 00:24:19,800 --> 00:24:21,960 Speaker 1: realize that if they put them out, they'd lose money, 456 00:24:22,520 --> 00:24:24,560 Speaker 1: you know, given the ratings that they'd get some some 457 00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:28,800 Speaker 1: well rated, some decently rated and high quality programs. I 458 00:24:28,840 --> 00:24:32,120 Speaker 1: remember when they had a pull um curb your Enthusiasm 459 00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:38,199 Speaker 1: and um uh the which McCall it the curb and 460 00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:43,800 Speaker 1: entourage out of syndication because they were losing it costs 461 00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:48,480 Speaker 1: them money to actually put it out. That it just 462 00:24:48,560 --> 00:24:50,720 Speaker 1: didn't make sense. So and there's been a few that 463 00:24:50,760 --> 00:24:53,560 Speaker 1: didn't go because of that quality programs. And we're not 464 00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:57,840 Speaker 1: talking about bad shows. It just, um, you know, when 465 00:24:57,840 --> 00:25:00,560 Speaker 1: you when when you generate that that kind of audience 466 00:25:00,560 --> 00:25:03,359 Speaker 1: in your primary run and this was at the time, 467 00:25:03,760 --> 00:25:06,080 Speaker 1: I'd be like, what's it gonna How could it possibly 468 00:25:06,119 --> 00:25:08,960 Speaker 1: matter for us? And so how could we possibly pay 469 00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:12,119 Speaker 1: for it? You know? Now to put that little idea 470 00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:13,879 Speaker 1: in with all the other things that were happening with 471 00:25:14,080 --> 00:25:17,320 Speaker 1: off net and library and everything else and again, and 472 00:25:17,359 --> 00:25:22,440 Speaker 1: I think Jack coming from Fox News, you know, Live seven, 473 00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:26,200 Speaker 1: you know, the the idea was, we can't sit around 474 00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:32,320 Speaker 1: and wait for for the next big bang, you know, um, 475 00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:37,239 Speaker 1: especially now. Um, and that explains another reason for your 476 00:25:37,320 --> 00:25:40,080 Speaker 1: ramp up in your own no doubt, No no doubt. 477 00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:42,720 Speaker 1: I think it's more about being live and first run 478 00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:44,679 Speaker 1: as much as possible as it is us doing it. 479 00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:47,159 Speaker 1: I mean, we'll you know, we have Warner Brothers doing 480 00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:48,760 Speaker 1: a lot of those shows for us, you know. Der 481 00:25:49,080 --> 00:25:51,760 Speaker 1: So where it comes from, we can figure it out. 482 00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:54,280 Speaker 1: But having it, I think it's the main thing, whether 483 00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:56,920 Speaker 1: it comes from us or not. But certainly the news, 484 00:25:57,000 --> 00:25:58,920 Speaker 1: you know, doing a thousand hours and news a week 485 00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:02,320 Speaker 1: across our group. But that absolutely is a big part 486 00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:06,040 Speaker 1: of that. Um. You know, I bought all those off 487 00:26:06,119 --> 00:26:09,960 Speaker 1: that shows at one point or another, which is sort 488 00:26:09,960 --> 00:26:12,080 Speaker 1: of funny now because now they're going for two streamers 489 00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:14,560 Speaker 1: for bigger money than they ever saw. You know. It's 490 00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:20,800 Speaker 1: it's it's hysterical. But um, you have to evolve absolutely 491 00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:25,359 Speaker 1: DVR proof, As a wise man once said, change or 492 00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:30,320 Speaker 1: die right. UM, let me ask you about um we're 493 00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:32,320 Speaker 1: talking about you have you know, two stations in many 494 00:26:32,359 --> 00:26:34,439 Speaker 1: markets to program and that is a that is more 495 00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:36,400 Speaker 1: than a full time job. You also have a lot 496 00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:39,960 Speaker 1: of multicast real estate, and if I'm not mistaken, you 497 00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:43,439 Speaker 1: have arrangements with a number of third party providers that 498 00:26:43,480 --> 00:26:47,280 Speaker 1: have different niches. How is that business overall shaping up? 499 00:26:47,320 --> 00:26:50,240 Speaker 1: It seems like it's been a good ten years that 500 00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:53,240 Speaker 1: the various big groups have been experimenting. We haven't been 501 00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:58,240 Speaker 1: in quite that long. Um. I think that's a good business, 502 00:26:58,760 --> 00:27:00,920 Speaker 1: or it can be a good business. I think there 503 00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:07,320 Speaker 1: may be a sort of glood of channels. A dozen 504 00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:09,840 Speaker 1: years there's been you know, many more channels added to 505 00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:11,680 Speaker 1: the mix or friends at wigal you know with me 506 00:27:11,800 --> 00:27:14,639 Speaker 1: TV and um, you know the movie channel they did 507 00:27:14,680 --> 00:27:16,520 Speaker 1: with MGM and originally which is this TV like for 508 00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:20,479 Speaker 1: the first guys in sort of I think, um, you know, 509 00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:23,360 Speaker 1: sort of foresaw the future a little bit and got 510 00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:25,320 Speaker 1: in there and did it. But I think that there's 511 00:27:25,359 --> 00:27:28,639 Speaker 1: been some over the last few years that just you know, 512 00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:31,760 Speaker 1: just additive. But I don't know what they bring to 513 00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:35,080 Speaker 1: the table as far as viewership. Um, you know the 514 00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:39,320 Speaker 1: names of them. I don't understand what they're even about. Um, 515 00:27:39,359 --> 00:27:42,000 Speaker 1: you know, it's it's it's about you know, using spectrum 516 00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:45,080 Speaker 1: and that's fine. Um, but I wonder what the long 517 00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:47,879 Speaker 1: term play for viewers is going to be on some 518 00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:50,080 Speaker 1: of these things. I mean what I'm what I like 519 00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:52,920 Speaker 1: to do. What we like to do is put stuff 520 00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:58,119 Speaker 1: on these channels that we don't do on particularly on 521 00:27:58,160 --> 00:28:01,800 Speaker 1: the on the primary channels through alternative. Yeah, I mean 522 00:28:01,800 --> 00:28:03,639 Speaker 1: I think that makes sense. We you know, we do 523 00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:06,600 Speaker 1: movies which is certainly that and H and I, which 524 00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:12,639 Speaker 1: is a classic television or our drama sort of UM channel, 525 00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:14,800 Speaker 1: which is fine, and then Buzzer which is a game 526 00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:17,479 Speaker 1: show channel, which is which is kind of cool. And 527 00:28:17,520 --> 00:28:19,320 Speaker 1: we've done some things with them that are sort of 528 00:28:19,480 --> 00:28:22,640 Speaker 1: cross pollinated. The one that we most recently did UM 529 00:28:23,119 --> 00:28:27,120 Speaker 1: which is decades with Wigel. That one may be one 530 00:28:27,280 --> 00:28:31,040 Speaker 1: where we get in and you know, provide some content 531 00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:34,560 Speaker 1: for it, sort of a historical channel they do first 532 00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:38,800 Speaker 1: run with news personalities like Bill Curtis and they look 533 00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:41,479 Speaker 1: back at history. And you know the fact is we 534 00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:45,720 Speaker 1: have um, you know, sixteen markets with archives, you know, 535 00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:48,240 Speaker 1: and so there there's ways that things can be packaged 536 00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:53,000 Speaker 1: to be additive to that. Um. So even in our 537 00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:55,280 Speaker 1: own world, you know, the idea that we'd be producing 538 00:28:55,280 --> 00:28:58,120 Speaker 1: movies to put on movies, that wasn't gonna happen. But 539 00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:01,400 Speaker 1: for something like decades, I think it could be something 540 00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:04,720 Speaker 1: we could we could enhance just given what our businesses 541 00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:07,680 Speaker 1: on the primary stations. Would you say that that, you know, 542 00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:11,480 Speaker 1: developing the multicast real estate is a priority for the station. 543 00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:13,640 Speaker 1: It hasn't been, you know, it hasn't been. You know, 544 00:29:13,680 --> 00:29:15,640 Speaker 1: we we didn't know for a while, like what was 545 00:29:15,680 --> 00:29:18,360 Speaker 1: gonna have the spectrum auction was going to chake out? 546 00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:21,360 Speaker 1: You know, right now we're doing the best we can 547 00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:24,640 Speaker 1: with it. Um. You know, whether that's the ultimate future 548 00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:27,840 Speaker 1: U for us, we'll we'll, we'll wait and see. But 549 00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:30,680 Speaker 1: in the meantime, we have some some some channels that 550 00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:32,960 Speaker 1: were proud of that. You know, we've gotten good feedback 551 00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:35,640 Speaker 1: on that makes some money and uh, you know we're 552 00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:37,960 Speaker 1: going to continue in that manner. Which which of the 553 00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:41,560 Speaker 1: channels have been most successful for you? Um? You know, 554 00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:44,040 Speaker 1: again we're kind of more passive in it. You know, 555 00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:48,560 Speaker 1: you don't but I mean probably, I mean that's the 556 00:29:48,560 --> 00:29:51,200 Speaker 1: one that's been on the longest Um, that's the one 557 00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:53,480 Speaker 1: that when it comes off or any amount of time, 558 00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:56,880 Speaker 1: we get hate mail, you know, just kind it might 559 00:29:56,880 --> 00:29:59,920 Speaker 1: be from the same guy. You know. I think that's 560 00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:03,000 Speaker 1: probably correct. And you know, Buzzer is an interesting one too, 561 00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:05,520 Speaker 1: because you get you know, get quote, you get like 562 00:30:05,560 --> 00:30:08,000 Speaker 1: posts on Facebook. I think there's unfortunately people out there 563 00:30:08,040 --> 00:30:12,000 Speaker 1: that think that these shows are really on now. Um, 564 00:30:12,160 --> 00:30:14,600 Speaker 1: so you know, I'll leave that up to their therapists. 565 00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:19,040 Speaker 1: But but you get some interesting feedback on some of 566 00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:20,840 Speaker 1: these channels. But I think Movies was the one that 567 00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:22,200 Speaker 1: was the first one we got in and we sort 568 00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:24,960 Speaker 1: of own that and have contracted with Wily sort of 569 00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:27,520 Speaker 1: run it for us. The other ones were not as active. 570 00:30:27,680 --> 00:30:31,560 Speaker 1: It's basically we're you know, they're leasing our signal. But 571 00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:34,960 Speaker 1: you know, we certainly want, you know, the programming to 572 00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:36,640 Speaker 1: be of quality, and the people that we've worked with 573 00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:40,280 Speaker 1: this far thus far have have certainly delivered that. So 574 00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:42,120 Speaker 1: but I think there's too many of them. I think 575 00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:46,200 Speaker 1: something need to go away um overall, and and you know, 576 00:30:46,240 --> 00:30:48,880 Speaker 1: we'll see how that develops. I think it's interesting to 577 00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:53,960 Speaker 1: see what that real estate becomes for sure. Yeah, Well 578 00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:56,560 Speaker 1: there's there's there's no question. But it is interesting though 579 00:30:56,600 --> 00:31:00,000 Speaker 1: because if you you know, I'm not advocating gourd cutting necessarily, 580 00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:02,600 Speaker 1: but you know, if you certain markets, if you look 581 00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:06,720 Speaker 1: at what you can get over the air, um, seriously, 582 00:31:06,760 --> 00:31:08,560 Speaker 1: it looks like cable in the eighties, if you have 583 00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:11,720 Speaker 1: you have you had a national sports net on there, 584 00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:15,360 Speaker 1: you'd be like set, you know, And it's really interesting, 585 00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:18,080 Speaker 1: um the spectrum. You know, how the use of the 586 00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:21,160 Speaker 1: spectrum and how how varied some of these channels are 587 00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:23,960 Speaker 1: along with your your big broadcast stations in each market. 588 00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:26,160 Speaker 1: So you can get by with that if you had to, 589 00:31:26,400 --> 00:31:31,120 Speaker 1: you know, if you had a good antenna. UM. But um, 590 00:31:31,240 --> 00:31:34,400 Speaker 1: I still think they're I think we've we've pushed it, 591 00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:36,520 Speaker 1: you know, as far as the number of channels that 592 00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:38,960 Speaker 1: are there, and I think there's only so much dr 593 00:31:39,080 --> 00:31:41,880 Speaker 1: money around that. You know, it certainly has taken taken 594 00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:44,800 Speaker 1: some out of the syndication pocket. There's no question about that. 595 00:31:45,280 --> 00:31:47,480 Speaker 1: In terms of some of the lower end advert no question, 596 00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:50,240 Speaker 1: no question about it. And and I think you know, 597 00:31:50,640 --> 00:31:52,360 Speaker 1: stations that are fourth or fifth or sixth in the 598 00:31:52,440 --> 00:31:54,960 Speaker 1: market have suffered too. For some of these stronger dig 599 00:31:55,080 --> 00:31:58,120 Speaker 1: nets and those are typically on the third party ones 600 00:31:58,200 --> 00:32:00,240 Speaker 1: that you are not that you just you say, at 601 00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:04,600 Speaker 1: least the space, those are typically barter deals revenue. No, 602 00:32:04,760 --> 00:32:08,560 Speaker 1: we we don't sell our on on our particular digit nets. 603 00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:10,800 Speaker 1: We don't sell any of the add times. So it 604 00:32:10,840 --> 00:32:13,000 Speaker 1: gets sold and you know, we get a piece of 605 00:32:13,040 --> 00:32:15,920 Speaker 1: that depending on what markets we're in, you know, et cetera. 606 00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:19,960 Speaker 1: So let's take a step back a little bit and 607 00:32:20,240 --> 00:32:22,760 Speaker 1: just I'd love to ask you, just in the big picture, 608 00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:26,200 Speaker 1: how has your how has the world for the Fox 609 00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:30,840 Speaker 1: television stations changed from an operational basis, now that the 610 00:32:31,080 --> 00:32:34,680 Speaker 1: now that the that the separation from Century Fox, that 611 00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:37,560 Speaker 1: that Disney deal is now lock stock and done. How 612 00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:40,680 Speaker 1: has your job changed? You know, it's interesting, I you know, 613 00:32:40,680 --> 00:32:44,520 Speaker 1: our day to day doesn't feel that much different, but 614 00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:48,640 Speaker 1: there certainly is a lot more collaboration, you know, having 615 00:32:48,680 --> 00:32:54,719 Speaker 1: four companies in this as part of this bigger company. Um, 616 00:32:54,800 --> 00:32:57,040 Speaker 1: you know, I think his spurred you know that, and 617 00:32:57,160 --> 00:32:58,960 Speaker 1: coupled with us A bunch of us moved back to 618 00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:01,640 Speaker 1: the West coast, so we're also of in the same space. 619 00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:03,840 Speaker 1: You know, a lot of the time, I think it's 620 00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:07,600 Speaker 1: been really sparred. A lot of collaboration and and just 621 00:33:07,640 --> 00:33:10,520 Speaker 1: communication people and you know, are much more aware of 622 00:33:10,560 --> 00:33:13,240 Speaker 1: what everybody else is doing. And there've been actual committees 623 00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:15,880 Speaker 1: set up between the network and the stations, between stations 624 00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:19,320 Speaker 1: and sports how do we best exploit the platforms that 625 00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:22,560 Speaker 1: we have and more importantly, the product that we have, um, 626 00:33:22,600 --> 00:33:25,440 Speaker 1: you know, across all of these areas. And and I 627 00:33:25,520 --> 00:33:30,239 Speaker 1: know um Lachlan Murdoch is laser focused on that, on 628 00:33:30,320 --> 00:33:34,840 Speaker 1: it being one company, which now is doable because it's 629 00:33:35,040 --> 00:33:39,880 Speaker 1: those four divisions essentially Fox News, Fox Sports, Fox Broadcast 630 00:33:39,920 --> 00:33:42,600 Speaker 1: Co and Fox Television Stations. You can count them on 631 00:33:42,600 --> 00:33:45,080 Speaker 1: one hand, it you can. Yeah, you know, I don't 632 00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:47,560 Speaker 1: know how many hands you needed, you know before that, 633 00:33:47,760 --> 00:33:52,040 Speaker 1: but before it was like a company of plus people. Yeah, 634 00:33:52,080 --> 00:33:54,240 Speaker 1: and and but what's been really cool about it too 635 00:33:54,360 --> 00:33:56,080 Speaker 1: is you know we were sort of the division that 636 00:33:56,600 --> 00:33:59,040 Speaker 1: you know, it was run out of the East Coast, 637 00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:02,240 Speaker 1: and you know, we were sort of here but being 638 00:34:02,280 --> 00:34:04,840 Speaker 1: out there, you know, we have a lot of folks 639 00:34:05,080 --> 00:34:07,400 Speaker 1: that work in these different areas saying, well, what so, 640 00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:09,200 Speaker 1: how did this happen? What did I see that you 641 00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:12,160 Speaker 1: just you guys just did And you know, they're much 642 00:34:12,200 --> 00:34:14,960 Speaker 1: more curious about how we do our day to day. 643 00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:18,320 Speaker 1: I mean, and everybody knew we made money, but um, 644 00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:21,399 Speaker 1: you know, I think that's really sort of exciting too. 645 00:34:21,560 --> 00:34:23,600 Speaker 1: And I'm meeting a lot of new people in a 646 00:34:23,680 --> 00:34:26,120 Speaker 1: lot of these areas that I never met before, and 647 00:34:26,120 --> 00:34:29,279 Speaker 1: and it's it's been great from that standpoint too. You've 648 00:34:29,280 --> 00:34:32,440 Speaker 1: been in Fox, You've seen so a company that's always 649 00:34:32,440 --> 00:34:35,040 Speaker 1: been innovative and at the forefront, but it's very birth 650 00:34:35,080 --> 00:34:40,799 Speaker 1: as a network was disruptive. What do you and you've 651 00:34:40,800 --> 00:34:43,640 Speaker 1: been there for so long, what keeps you engaged in 652 00:34:43,680 --> 00:34:46,359 Speaker 1: the business. The idea that I have to say, it's 653 00:34:46,440 --> 00:34:50,120 Speaker 1: it's been incredible to work at a place where the 654 00:34:50,239 --> 00:34:53,640 Speaker 1: fear is never to fail. The fear is to not 655 00:34:53,800 --> 00:34:57,359 Speaker 1: think of new stuff. I don't think I can put 656 00:34:57,400 --> 00:35:00,239 Speaker 1: it anymore simple than that, because that that it has 657 00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:02,719 Speaker 1: been true since the day I drove on the Fox lot, 658 00:35:03,120 --> 00:35:09,760 Speaker 1: And there was always that idea that don't ever worry 659 00:35:09,760 --> 00:35:12,520 Speaker 1: about your crazy idea is not working, you know, worry 660 00:35:12,520 --> 00:35:16,120 Speaker 1: about not having crazy ideas, you know, um, and that 661 00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:18,160 Speaker 1: keeping things the same we're never was never going to 662 00:35:18,239 --> 00:35:20,160 Speaker 1: be good enough. And that was every boss I have 663 00:35:20,280 --> 00:35:25,880 Speaker 1: worked for in that company. That comes from the head down, yeah, question, 664 00:35:26,040 --> 00:35:27,960 Speaker 1: and that that was and that was real, and that 665 00:35:28,080 --> 00:35:30,759 Speaker 1: was you could you could feel it, you know, and 666 00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:33,880 Speaker 1: I was there, you know early, you know, the Fox 667 00:35:33,920 --> 00:35:37,000 Speaker 1: wasn't even seven nights yet as as a network. But 668 00:35:37,080 --> 00:35:39,799 Speaker 1: I remember sort of things like, you know, which I 669 00:35:39,840 --> 00:35:42,200 Speaker 1: have nothing to do with, um, things like you know, 670 00:35:42,280 --> 00:35:46,799 Speaker 1: moving you know, Simpson's next to Cosby, Yeah, you know, 671 00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:49,839 Speaker 1: and then obviously the NFL and station acquisitions and all 672 00:35:49,880 --> 00:35:52,840 Speaker 1: the other gigantic things that the company did. But you 673 00:35:52,840 --> 00:35:55,120 Speaker 1: you know, there was always a sense of something cool 674 00:35:55,200 --> 00:35:57,359 Speaker 1: was right around the corner, you know. And I think 675 00:35:57,360 --> 00:36:01,440 Speaker 1: it's still true now, I really do, I really do so, 676 00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:05,319 Speaker 1: no question. No. Now it's a sunny front row seat 677 00:36:05,320 --> 00:36:08,439 Speaker 1: because we're back in Los Angeles, so it's uh, it's 678 00:36:08,480 --> 00:36:11,280 Speaker 1: it's terrific. Thank you, Frank Well, thank you for braving 679 00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:15,120 Speaker 1: the East again. And it's difficult, yes, but thank you 680 00:36:15,160 --> 00:36:20,040 Speaker 1: for having me very much. I appreciate it. Thanks for listening. 681 00:36:20,239 --> 00:36:22,560 Speaker 1: Be sure to tune in next week for another edition 682 00:36:22,560 --> 00:36:23,560 Speaker 1: of Strictly Business.