1 00:00:02,400 --> 00:00:06,760 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News. 2 00:00:11,600 --> 00:00:15,440 Speaker 2: This is the Bloomberg Surveillance Podcast. I'm Jonathan Ferrow, along 3 00:00:15,440 --> 00:00:18,680 Speaker 2: with Lisa Bromwitz and Amrie Hordern. Join us each day 4 00:00:18,720 --> 00:00:22,239 Speaker 2: for insight from the best in markets, economics, and geopolitics 5 00:00:22,400 --> 00:00:24,880 Speaker 2: from our global headquarters in New York City. We are 6 00:00:24,920 --> 00:00:27,680 Speaker 2: live on Bloomberg Television weekday mornings from six to nine 7 00:00:27,680 --> 00:00:31,280 Speaker 2: am Eastern. Subscribe to the podcast on Apple, Spotify or 8 00:00:31,280 --> 00:00:33,919 Speaker 2: anywhere else you listen, and as always on the Bloomberg 9 00:00:34,000 --> 00:00:38,199 Speaker 2: Terminal and the Bloomberg Business App. Chris Harvey of Wells Fargo, 10 00:00:38,280 --> 00:00:40,839 Speaker 2: the most bullish man on Wall Street s and P 11 00:00:41,000 --> 00:00:43,960 Speaker 2: five hundred price target of seven thousand and seven, and 12 00:00:44,080 --> 00:00:45,120 Speaker 2: he joins us now for more. 13 00:00:45,120 --> 00:00:46,640 Speaker 3: Good morning, Chris, Good, good morning. 14 00:00:46,640 --> 00:00:49,640 Speaker 2: You're uncomfortable with that. I want to give you some 15 00:00:49,680 --> 00:00:52,800 Speaker 2: credit before we start. Credit to you for not changing 16 00:00:52,840 --> 00:00:55,720 Speaker 2: this call in the tariff storm of early April. So 17 00:00:55,800 --> 00:00:56,560 Speaker 2: let's start there. 18 00:00:56,880 --> 00:00:59,760 Speaker 4: Why did you stick with it so nine months in 19 00:00:59,800 --> 00:01:04,040 Speaker 4: the financial market. That's an eternity. The other thing we 20 00:01:04,080 --> 00:01:06,679 Speaker 4: had seen Trump one point zero. We know his style. 21 00:01:06,720 --> 00:01:08,640 Speaker 4: It's to go out to the end degree and then 22 00:01:08,640 --> 00:01:12,440 Speaker 4: to come back in Furthermore, the underlying fundamentals were still fine, 23 00:01:12,880 --> 00:01:15,640 Speaker 4: and our EPs and our price target wasn't predicated on 24 00:01:15,720 --> 00:01:18,560 Speaker 4: a strong economy. What we're seeing is the winners continue 25 00:01:18,600 --> 00:01:22,280 Speaker 4: to win. The ubercap companies have the higher margins, are 26 00:01:22,280 --> 00:01:25,399 Speaker 4: gaining more market share. There is a real secular trade 27 00:01:25,440 --> 00:01:28,440 Speaker 4: in AI that will continue. I was here during the nineties. 28 00:01:28,640 --> 00:01:31,679 Speaker 4: This is not a fair comparison. It is much stronger 29 00:01:31,680 --> 00:01:34,120 Speaker 4: and the fundamentals are much better than today than they 30 00:01:34,120 --> 00:01:34,680 Speaker 4: were back then. 31 00:01:34,800 --> 00:01:37,399 Speaker 2: Seven K is not tariff dependent, It is not August 32 00:01:37,440 --> 00:01:38,080 Speaker 2: one dependent. 33 00:01:38,560 --> 00:01:41,600 Speaker 4: No, So people ask, well, what's the fear. 34 00:01:41,640 --> 00:01:42,360 Speaker 5: The fear is. 35 00:01:42,720 --> 00:01:45,759 Speaker 4: There's a couple of fears. One is do taras start 36 00:01:45,760 --> 00:01:48,320 Speaker 4: to flare back up? And that's possible, right, we just 37 00:01:48,360 --> 00:01:51,120 Speaker 4: can't can't predict that. The other fear, which is much 38 00:01:51,160 --> 00:01:54,320 Speaker 4: more real fear, is what's happening with the Fed? Do 39 00:01:54,400 --> 00:01:56,640 Speaker 4: we worry about the Fed and confidence in the Fed? 40 00:01:56,680 --> 00:01:58,600 Speaker 4: Because the back and forth between the Fed and White House, 41 00:01:58,640 --> 00:02:02,000 Speaker 4: that's not healthy, right, and that can cause problems in 42 00:02:02,040 --> 00:02:04,680 Speaker 4: the bond market, and that can cause problems with competence. 43 00:02:04,840 --> 00:02:07,200 Speaker 4: But overall, we're starting to see M and A activity 44 00:02:07,280 --> 00:02:09,800 Speaker 4: kick up. We think that M and A will continue 45 00:02:09,840 --> 00:02:12,640 Speaker 4: to be very, very healthy up and down the capitalization. 46 00:02:12,800 --> 00:02:15,400 Speaker 4: We do think the FEDS are going to cut. Fundamentals 47 00:02:15,480 --> 00:02:18,760 Speaker 4: are fine, the consumers okay, And we're not seeing the 48 00:02:18,840 --> 00:02:21,440 Speaker 4: kind of price increases that people are talking about. We're 49 00:02:21,440 --> 00:02:24,520 Speaker 4: seeing people say surgical when they're talking about price increases 50 00:02:24,560 --> 00:02:25,320 Speaker 4: and selectively. 51 00:02:25,760 --> 00:02:27,320 Speaker 1: So there's a lot to unpack there. And we'll get 52 00:02:27,360 --> 00:02:29,240 Speaker 1: to the FED independence in just a second. And what 53 00:02:29,360 --> 00:02:32,120 Speaker 1: point yields have to rise to before that really triggers 54 00:02:32,120 --> 00:02:35,400 Speaker 1: some sort of response and equity markets, what about valuations, 55 00:02:35,440 --> 00:02:38,520 Speaker 1: the idea that you're talking about an eleven percent gain 56 00:02:38,560 --> 00:02:40,480 Speaker 1: from where we are right now, and the S and 57 00:02:40,480 --> 00:02:43,840 Speaker 1: P five hundred, after already reaching record highs amid a 58 00:02:43,880 --> 00:02:46,640 Speaker 1: wall of orion, frankly growth that is expected to slow. 59 00:02:47,280 --> 00:02:49,680 Speaker 4: So we talk about this all the time because people say, oh, 60 00:02:49,720 --> 00:02:52,280 Speaker 4: look at twenty years ago, look at twenty five years ago. 61 00:02:52,400 --> 00:02:54,600 Speaker 4: The SMP is not the same as it was twenty 62 00:02:54,600 --> 00:02:56,760 Speaker 4: five years ago. The constittioning the S and P five 63 00:02:56,840 --> 00:02:59,720 Speaker 4: hundred is much more growthy, it's much more techy, The 64 00:03:00,600 --> 00:03:03,840 Speaker 4: multiples are much higher, the productivity is much better. The 65 00:03:03,840 --> 00:03:08,519 Speaker 4: people running the companies are much more uh attuned and 66 00:03:08,680 --> 00:03:11,600 Speaker 4: and the acumen is much higher, and so the valuation, 67 00:03:11,800 --> 00:03:15,720 Speaker 4: yes it's high, but it's justified in our minds. And again, 68 00:03:15,800 --> 00:03:18,040 Speaker 4: we don't need to see a whole lot of multiple 69 00:03:18,080 --> 00:03:20,600 Speaker 4: expansion to get to that level. We're not very far 70 00:03:20,639 --> 00:03:22,120 Speaker 4: from that level at this point in time. 71 00:03:22,080 --> 00:03:25,320 Speaker 1: So valuation concerns don't really uh spend You don't spend 72 00:03:25,360 --> 00:03:26,920 Speaker 1: a lot of time on those. I do want to 73 00:03:26,919 --> 00:03:28,840 Speaker 1: go to the FED independent side, though, there is a 74 00:03:28,919 --> 00:03:31,960 Speaker 1: question of what point yields have to rise to before 75 00:03:32,000 --> 00:03:35,200 Speaker 1: it triggers true concern in stock markets because we've asked 76 00:03:35,240 --> 00:03:37,480 Speaker 1: that questions many times. People give us a level and 77 00:03:37,480 --> 00:03:40,040 Speaker 1: then we pass that level and stock markets struggled off 78 00:03:40,080 --> 00:03:42,320 Speaker 1: and say healthy, healthy, good. Yeah. 79 00:03:42,160 --> 00:03:44,960 Speaker 4: I I it's hard for me to really answer that question. 80 00:03:45,320 --> 00:03:49,200 Speaker 4: The I think what's happening right now is you had 81 00:03:49,240 --> 00:03:51,600 Speaker 4: Trump come out and say I'm not going to fire powers, right, 82 00:03:51,880 --> 00:03:53,480 Speaker 4: and I think he needs to go out and say 83 00:03:53,520 --> 00:03:57,320 Speaker 4: that right. There's a lot of talk and uh rumors 84 00:03:57,360 --> 00:03:59,880 Speaker 4: and situations in the marketplace. At the end of the day, 85 00:03:59,880 --> 00:04:02,440 Speaker 4: we need the FED. We need the FED to be independent, 86 00:04:02,760 --> 00:04:05,680 Speaker 4: We need to be the FED to be apolitical because 87 00:04:05,720 --> 00:04:08,520 Speaker 4: it is a very important part of our marketplace, and 88 00:04:08,560 --> 00:04:10,360 Speaker 4: as long as we can do that, that's great. I 89 00:04:10,400 --> 00:04:12,960 Speaker 4: don't know if raids really have a play in this. 90 00:04:13,240 --> 00:04:14,960 Speaker 4: I think it's just cooler heads and need to prevail. 91 00:04:15,280 --> 00:04:17,919 Speaker 6: You read Trump correctly when it comes to tariffs. He 92 00:04:17,960 --> 00:04:20,480 Speaker 6: put out a truth over the weekend about what best 93 00:04:20,680 --> 00:04:22,320 Speaker 6: potentially laid out to him. When it comes to the 94 00:04:22,320 --> 00:04:24,919 Speaker 6: market impact of firing Besset, people don't explain to me. 95 00:04:25,040 --> 00:04:27,159 Speaker 6: I explained to them, says the President of the United States. 96 00:04:27,360 --> 00:04:30,680 Speaker 6: Did you take that as him basically acknowledging he understands 97 00:04:30,720 --> 00:04:33,440 Speaker 6: the negative impacts that could have on financial markets. 98 00:04:34,640 --> 00:04:38,000 Speaker 4: I think his team understands. I think he understands. I 99 00:04:38,080 --> 00:04:40,880 Speaker 4: think if you go back and one of them, when 100 00:04:40,880 --> 00:04:42,320 Speaker 4: we were on the show a while ago, we were 101 00:04:42,320 --> 00:04:45,920 Speaker 4: talking about will the feedback loop close? Right? Will the 102 00:04:45,960 --> 00:04:49,040 Speaker 4: administration see what's happening that capital markets and react to that? 103 00:04:49,240 --> 00:04:52,240 Speaker 4: And they did so. I do think they understand. But 104 00:04:52,279 --> 00:04:54,160 Speaker 4: I also think that he feels like he's playing with 105 00:04:54,200 --> 00:04:56,240 Speaker 4: a very stronghand, and to a certain degree he is. 106 00:04:57,000 --> 00:04:58,640 Speaker 4: And one of the things we are beginning to worry 107 00:04:58,680 --> 00:05:03,280 Speaker 4: about it is he's looking at tariff's as a revenue generator. Right, 108 00:05:03,320 --> 00:05:06,400 Speaker 4: We have what we have with the deficit and saying, hey, 109 00:05:06,560 --> 00:05:09,440 Speaker 4: this could be a good way to reduce the deficit. 110 00:05:09,720 --> 00:05:12,320 Speaker 4: We haven't seen the real impact to the economy. What's 111 00:05:12,320 --> 00:05:12,840 Speaker 4: the big deal? 112 00:05:12,960 --> 00:05:15,039 Speaker 6: In that same truth, he said, if it weren't for him, 113 00:05:15,360 --> 00:05:17,520 Speaker 6: the market wouldn't be at record highs right now. But 114 00:05:17,560 --> 00:05:20,040 Speaker 6: if it weren't for him, would potentially ready be at 115 00:05:20,040 --> 00:05:22,559 Speaker 6: your seven double host seven mark. 116 00:05:23,320 --> 00:05:27,360 Speaker 4: Yeah, there's a lot of speculation on speculation there. I 117 00:05:27,400 --> 00:05:30,640 Speaker 4: think we could have done this. Talking my book, one 118 00:05:30,680 --> 00:05:32,240 Speaker 4: of the things I said, one of the things I 119 00:05:32,240 --> 00:05:34,560 Speaker 4: believe is you could have put a ten percent tariffon 120 00:05:34,920 --> 00:05:36,039 Speaker 4: and then just walked away. 121 00:05:36,320 --> 00:05:36,520 Speaker 7: Right. 122 00:05:36,640 --> 00:05:39,320 Speaker 4: We talked about how there was a seller's tariff and 123 00:05:38,960 --> 00:05:43,560 Speaker 4: how people whether it's through Airbnb or Amazon, they understand 124 00:05:43,560 --> 00:05:46,480 Speaker 4: that you had Congress put that ten percent tariffon, walk 125 00:05:46,520 --> 00:05:50,240 Speaker 4: away and we can do something more productive. But we 126 00:05:50,320 --> 00:05:53,440 Speaker 4: chose this path and it's okay, it's a little bit bumpy, 127 00:05:54,160 --> 00:05:55,320 Speaker 4: but we're getting there. 128 00:05:55,520 --> 00:05:58,360 Speaker 2: Mike and bumpy. A pityshev accountemy. Without the markets pressuring 129 00:05:58,360 --> 00:06:01,440 Speaker 2: the administration, why would they pull back going it's the 130 00:06:01,480 --> 00:06:01,920 Speaker 2: next month? 131 00:06:02,040 --> 00:06:04,520 Speaker 1: Well, this to me is the key question. How much 132 00:06:04,680 --> 00:06:08,040 Speaker 1: is this administration playing chicken on tariffs with the market. 133 00:06:08,080 --> 00:06:10,760 Speaker 1: If the market's looking past something that hasn't happened yet, 134 00:06:10,760 --> 00:06:13,840 Speaker 1: does that push them to potentially go even harder because 135 00:06:13,839 --> 00:06:15,880 Speaker 1: they could extract more that could off set the deficit 136 00:06:15,920 --> 00:06:17,560 Speaker 1: concerns from the one big, beautiful bill. 137 00:06:18,000 --> 00:06:20,440 Speaker 6: And there we go, and you see these countries lining 138 00:06:20,520 --> 00:06:22,840 Speaker 6: up to really want to do deals and getting a 139 00:06:22,839 --> 00:06:25,760 Speaker 6: little bit nervous when you have Howard Latnach, the Commerce Secretary, 140 00:06:25,800 --> 00:06:29,279 Speaker 6: coming on a Sunday show saying August first is hard 141 00:06:29,279 --> 00:06:31,479 Speaker 6: to stop deal. Also, he's already telling us what to 142 00:06:31,520 --> 00:06:33,440 Speaker 6: expect next year. He said, of course, we're going to 143 00:06:33,480 --> 00:06:37,040 Speaker 6: renegotiate USMCA, so we could prepare for more headwinds in 144 00:06:37,120 --> 00:06:39,120 Speaker 6: terms of Canada, Mexico and United. 145 00:06:38,960 --> 00:06:41,240 Speaker 2: It's gonna keep coming. It's gonna keep coming. Chris, just 146 00:06:41,240 --> 00:06:42,839 Speaker 2: to wrap it up, the US versus the rest of 147 00:06:42,880 --> 00:06:44,600 Speaker 2: the world, what if you mighte to that debate over 148 00:06:44,640 --> 00:06:45,279 Speaker 2: the YSIFA. 149 00:06:45,680 --> 00:06:48,680 Speaker 4: So we thought that was possible, We thought that was 150 00:06:48,800 --> 00:06:51,440 Speaker 4: probable early in the year. It happened. Now we're just 151 00:06:51,480 --> 00:06:54,080 Speaker 4: walking away, which you just don't. We're done, We're good. 152 00:06:54,480 --> 00:06:57,600 Speaker 4: You had that repricing. Now let's go back to fundamentals. 153 00:06:57,640 --> 00:06:59,880 Speaker 4: And the fundamentals are telling you back to the US, 154 00:07:00,279 --> 00:07:01,559 Speaker 4: back to back to growth. 155 00:07:01,640 --> 00:07:15,680 Speaker 2: Chris Halveylstfagapre Siedaser. Let's continue the conversation. Claudia Sama of 156 00:07:15,680 --> 00:07:18,239 Speaker 2: New Century Advisors joins us. Now for more. Claudia, welcome 157 00:07:18,240 --> 00:07:20,360 Speaker 2: back to the show. It's good to see you, as always. 158 00:07:20,520 --> 00:07:22,360 Speaker 2: Want to pick up on that space from Governor Waller 159 00:07:22,480 --> 00:07:25,240 Speaker 2: what he said before our conversation with him, looking across 160 00:07:25,240 --> 00:07:27,320 Speaker 2: the soft and hard data, I get a picture of 161 00:07:27,320 --> 00:07:30,040 Speaker 2: a labor market on the edge. Do you get a 162 00:07:30,080 --> 00:07:32,200 Speaker 2: picture of a labor market on the edge. 163 00:07:34,320 --> 00:07:36,400 Speaker 7: That's what I would characterize the labor market. 164 00:07:36,440 --> 00:07:38,760 Speaker 5: But I think demon and Waller lays out a very 165 00:07:38,840 --> 00:07:41,960 Speaker 5: reasonable argument for reading the data right there. 166 00:07:42,840 --> 00:07:45,880 Speaker 7: Labor market has had some crap, has some weaknesses to it. 167 00:07:45,920 --> 00:07:47,760 Speaker 5: I mean, I think they were maybe more apparent last 168 00:07:47,840 --> 00:07:49,800 Speaker 5: year's you know, the unemployment rate has been rising. 169 00:07:50,720 --> 00:07:54,680 Speaker 7: But he pays a picture and he ties it to data. Again, 170 00:07:54,720 --> 00:07:55,320 Speaker 7: I think it's. 171 00:07:55,200 --> 00:07:58,080 Speaker 5: Really unfortunate that it becomes wrapped in this conversation of 172 00:07:58,120 --> 00:07:59,760 Speaker 5: it as a politicized view. 173 00:07:59,640 --> 00:08:02,480 Speaker 7: Of his I don't see it that way, but just 174 00:08:02,520 --> 00:08:03,120 Speaker 7: to have that. 175 00:08:03,080 --> 00:08:06,600 Speaker 5: Kind of injective of the conversation does tend to undermine 176 00:08:06,600 --> 00:08:07,280 Speaker 5: what he's saying. 177 00:08:07,440 --> 00:08:10,080 Speaker 1: Claudia, do you think, from your perspective, in your years 178 00:08:10,120 --> 00:08:13,200 Speaker 1: of experience studying the labor market and how that affects 179 00:08:13,200 --> 00:08:15,720 Speaker 1: FED policy, do you think that right now weakening in 180 00:08:15,760 --> 00:08:19,560 Speaker 1: the labor market really is a greater concern than a prolonged, 181 00:08:19,640 --> 00:08:23,160 Speaker 1: protracted inflationary push from the tariffs and from strength that 182 00:08:23,200 --> 00:08:25,200 Speaker 1: we have seen ongoing in corporate America. 183 00:08:27,440 --> 00:08:30,280 Speaker 5: So I would agree that there are several threats on 184 00:08:30,320 --> 00:08:32,640 Speaker 5: the growth side to policies have been put in place. 185 00:08:32,679 --> 00:08:35,880 Speaker 5: I mean, kars have an aspect of weakening growth throughout 186 00:08:35,880 --> 00:08:38,920 Speaker 5: the higher prices we've seen, immigration policy. I mean, there's 187 00:08:38,960 --> 00:08:40,600 Speaker 5: a whole set of reasons why you look out at 188 00:08:40,600 --> 00:08:42,800 Speaker 5: this year. We've seen growth slow this year, and that 189 00:08:42,840 --> 00:08:45,160 Speaker 5: will eventually show up in the labor markets. You definitely 190 00:08:45,160 --> 00:08:48,600 Speaker 5: can see those risks. And if one, as Christopher Waller 191 00:08:48,679 --> 00:08:51,360 Speaker 5: laid out, looks at the potential inflation risks and says 192 00:08:51,360 --> 00:08:53,800 Speaker 5: these are tempered, we can look through these, then I 193 00:08:53,800 --> 00:08:54,960 Speaker 5: think you would be right back. 194 00:08:54,840 --> 00:08:55,480 Speaker 7: To where we were. 195 00:08:55,559 --> 00:08:57,840 Speaker 5: You know in twenty nineteen, where does thateral reserve base 196 00:08:57,880 --> 00:09:00,640 Speaker 5: with care? They tu preamptively, which is we're not in 197 00:09:00,640 --> 00:09:03,920 Speaker 5: an environment where inflation is subdued. It's actually been above 198 00:09:03,960 --> 00:09:06,520 Speaker 5: target for more than four years. There are real rists there. 199 00:09:06,800 --> 00:09:09,120 Speaker 5: We still don't know what the terear policy actually is. 200 00:09:09,160 --> 00:09:11,080 Speaker 5: It could be going higher, it could not, like, so 201 00:09:11,160 --> 00:09:13,480 Speaker 5: there's just a lot of uncertainy. I think with the 202 00:09:13,520 --> 00:09:15,719 Speaker 5: way that the kind of majority of. 203 00:09:15,640 --> 00:09:17,560 Speaker 7: The FED is lining up their arguments makes a lot 204 00:09:17,600 --> 00:09:18,040 Speaker 7: of sense. 205 00:09:18,400 --> 00:09:20,480 Speaker 5: But there is a real perspective, and I would agree 206 00:09:20,480 --> 00:09:22,520 Speaker 5: that the diversity of thought on the ped and making 207 00:09:22,520 --> 00:09:25,200 Speaker 5: those arguments carefully with data like that's a good thing. 208 00:09:25,360 --> 00:09:29,720 Speaker 5: It's just is extremely unfortunate the environment. By having the 209 00:09:29,720 --> 00:09:32,960 Speaker 5: White House and the President very directly say what they 210 00:09:33,000 --> 00:09:33,439 Speaker 5: want to. 211 00:09:33,440 --> 00:09:35,520 Speaker 7: See in terms of rapes, it's kind of created this. 212 00:09:35,640 --> 00:09:38,680 Speaker 5: You know, It's made it really difficult for the fend 213 00:09:38,679 --> 00:09:41,080 Speaker 5: to have this kind of discipline data conversation. 214 00:09:41,400 --> 00:09:43,240 Speaker 1: And it's even more difficult by the fact that the 215 00:09:43,320 --> 00:09:45,559 Speaker 1: data is really confusing and it can paint a different 216 00:09:45,559 --> 00:09:48,000 Speaker 1: story depending on how you read it. I mean, we 217 00:09:48,120 --> 00:09:51,439 Speaker 1: keep kind of wondering what the labor market is showing us, 218 00:09:51,480 --> 00:09:53,720 Speaker 1: whether it does show some sort of more dramatic weakening, 219 00:09:53,800 --> 00:09:56,240 Speaker 1: or whether the housing market is kind of ringing a 220 00:09:56,280 --> 00:09:59,720 Speaker 1: five alarm fire alarm, saying, hey, we're clearly as a problem. 221 00:09:59,760 --> 00:10:02,160 Speaker 1: I mean, at what point do you think that keeping 222 00:10:02,280 --> 00:10:06,160 Speaker 1: rates at this level would really create a weakness that 223 00:10:06,200 --> 00:10:09,079 Speaker 1: currently hasn't manifested itself in the economy. 224 00:10:12,040 --> 00:10:16,080 Speaker 5: We're likely pointed in that direction. I mean, the economy 225 00:10:16,080 --> 00:10:18,760 Speaker 5: has proven quite resilience. I mean this is not just 226 00:10:18,920 --> 00:10:21,160 Speaker 5: talking about this year, but in recent years. The higher 227 00:10:21,200 --> 00:10:23,000 Speaker 5: interest rates, and there are probably a lot of different 228 00:10:23,000 --> 00:10:25,839 Speaker 5: reasons for that, but eventually, you know, and we do 229 00:10:25,920 --> 00:10:28,599 Speaker 5: see an interest rates that sensitive sectors like how do 230 00:10:28,720 --> 00:10:30,120 Speaker 5: we do see these. 231 00:10:30,000 --> 00:10:31,360 Speaker 7: Rates weighing down the question? 232 00:10:31,520 --> 00:10:34,280 Speaker 5: The reason that the federal funds rate is elevated is 233 00:10:34,320 --> 00:10:37,000 Speaker 5: because it is trying to push down on inflation. 234 00:10:37,120 --> 00:10:39,360 Speaker 7: Once the inflation issue is taken. 235 00:10:39,080 --> 00:10:41,400 Speaker 5: Care of, well, then there's no reason to have the 236 00:10:41,840 --> 00:10:43,600 Speaker 5: rates as high as they are, and you should see 237 00:10:43,600 --> 00:10:45,360 Speaker 5: them coming down, and that then tells us that the 238 00:10:45,400 --> 00:10:47,720 Speaker 5: direction they're pointed in, they're just not ready to take 239 00:10:47,760 --> 00:10:48,200 Speaker 5: that move. 240 00:10:48,600 --> 00:10:50,520 Speaker 7: But you know, there are. 241 00:10:50,640 --> 00:10:53,400 Speaker 5: Costs, There are costs in the economy to the said 242 00:10:53,520 --> 00:10:54,920 Speaker 5: having interest rates as high. 243 00:10:54,760 --> 00:10:57,760 Speaker 7: As they are, and we will see those costs build 244 00:10:57,840 --> 00:10:58,640 Speaker 7: as interest. 245 00:10:58,440 --> 00:11:01,120 Speaker 5: Rates, say higher, So well, We're not looking at some 246 00:11:01,240 --> 00:11:03,560 Speaker 5: dramatic falling off a cliff. We're looking at more of 247 00:11:03,600 --> 00:11:06,360 Speaker 5: a slow grind and it does impact certain parts of 248 00:11:06,360 --> 00:11:09,080 Speaker 5: the economy, certain consumers, people trying to buy homes. Like 249 00:11:09,120 --> 00:11:11,640 Speaker 5: that is where the effect is. But the goal is 250 00:11:11,679 --> 00:11:14,439 Speaker 5: to get you know, inflation down. Unfortunately, you know, we've 251 00:11:14,440 --> 00:11:17,560 Speaker 5: got data that moving in the wrong directions. That may 252 00:11:17,600 --> 00:11:20,080 Speaker 5: be temporary, but like there's a reason the rates are 253 00:11:20,080 --> 00:11:20,679 Speaker 5: where they are. 254 00:11:20,800 --> 00:11:21,400 Speaker 7: It's not. 255 00:11:24,240 --> 00:11:26,040 Speaker 5: Government but that there are costs. 256 00:11:26,120 --> 00:11:28,480 Speaker 6: Governor Waller though, is looking at these cracks in the 257 00:11:28,559 --> 00:11:31,680 Speaker 6: labor market. Even individuals like Mary Daily is talking about 258 00:11:31,679 --> 00:11:35,160 Speaker 6: it's reasonable to expect two cuts this year, Claudia, when 259 00:11:35,160 --> 00:11:37,040 Speaker 6: do you expect the FED to first move? 260 00:11:39,679 --> 00:11:42,360 Speaker 5: So it will absolutely depend on the data as they 261 00:11:42,360 --> 00:11:44,880 Speaker 5: go forward, but there is certainly a case, and I think, 262 00:11:44,960 --> 00:11:47,440 Speaker 5: you know, keep an eye on the inflation data that's 263 00:11:47,480 --> 00:11:49,600 Speaker 5: not connected to TARRAF. I mean, I think that's actually 264 00:11:49,640 --> 00:11:51,920 Speaker 5: been part of the encouraging cases that we've seen some 265 00:11:51,960 --> 00:11:55,280 Speaker 5: weakness in you know, some discretionary spending areas. 266 00:11:55,280 --> 00:11:56,080 Speaker 7: That housing has. 267 00:11:56,000 --> 00:11:57,520 Speaker 5: Certainly shown some cooling off. 268 00:11:57,840 --> 00:12:01,040 Speaker 7: So I think they're building the data, are building the case. 269 00:12:01,080 --> 00:12:03,440 Speaker 5: As long as you know, the terrorists don't really like 270 00:12:03,559 --> 00:12:06,679 Speaker 5: move much higher. You know, things really go dramatically sideways. 271 00:12:07,040 --> 00:12:10,560 Speaker 5: I think they're on track for September or October. You know, 272 00:12:10,600 --> 00:12:13,600 Speaker 5: as the data come in and Governor Walla could absolutely 273 00:12:13,600 --> 00:12:16,000 Speaker 5: be correct, and we see some employment numbers that are 274 00:12:16,000 --> 00:12:18,400 Speaker 5: not as positive as recent ones, and that that doesn't 275 00:12:18,440 --> 00:12:21,520 Speaker 5: move them much more quickly to the cut. But I 276 00:12:21,559 --> 00:12:25,120 Speaker 5: think this is the data thus far have supported their 277 00:12:26,040 --> 00:12:27,880 Speaker 5: let's wait and see, and I think that's where they're 278 00:12:27,880 --> 00:12:29,880 Speaker 5: going to come down as a group next week. But 279 00:12:30,000 --> 00:12:31,440 Speaker 5: of course, you know, you can look at the data 280 00:12:31,440 --> 00:12:34,720 Speaker 5: differently and they are pointed in the direction of cuts. 281 00:12:34,760 --> 00:12:36,480 Speaker 5: I mean some aren't even looking for this year. But 282 00:12:36,520 --> 00:12:38,440 Speaker 5: I mean that's you know, they have a lot. 283 00:12:38,320 --> 00:12:41,920 Speaker 7: Of coherence in what they're thinking. It's just timing is hard. 284 00:12:42,280 --> 00:12:44,760 Speaker 5: It's it's really hard to figure out because timing is 285 00:12:44,760 --> 00:12:45,640 Speaker 5: hard in the economy. 286 00:12:46,280 --> 00:12:49,160 Speaker 2: Cloda, I appreciate itsime. Clodia sound that new century of 287 00:12:49,240 --> 00:13:01,240 Speaker 2: signed chasms a signical the ISSUS has this to say. 288 00:13:01,320 --> 00:13:04,120 Speaker 2: Our vice case has been and remains. The US President 289 00:13:04,200 --> 00:13:07,000 Speaker 2: Donald Trump will not dismiss Fedchad to run PAL at 290 00:13:07,040 --> 00:13:10,560 Speaker 2: the very least until after the September FMC meeting chance 291 00:13:10,640 --> 00:13:12,360 Speaker 2: John to snap for Moss, so challengeing given us the 292 00:13:12,360 --> 00:13:15,000 Speaker 2: best case two months. What happens after that if they 293 00:13:15,080 --> 00:13:16,480 Speaker 2: haven't reduced interest rights? 294 00:13:17,679 --> 00:13:20,480 Speaker 3: Yeah, if the FED doesn't cut at the September meeting, 295 00:13:20,640 --> 00:13:23,760 Speaker 3: I think the President moves forward with a shadow chair 296 00:13:24,080 --> 00:13:28,360 Speaker 3: nominee announcement and continues to build the case to dismiss 297 00:13:28,440 --> 00:13:32,439 Speaker 3: Pale for cause, hoping that Powell will resign. I don't 298 00:13:32,480 --> 00:13:34,719 Speaker 3: think Powell will resign, but I think that case will 299 00:13:34,760 --> 00:13:37,760 Speaker 3: continue to be built. What the President really wants is 300 00:13:38,120 --> 00:13:40,920 Speaker 3: for the FED chair to resign, and you know Pal's 301 00:13:41,000 --> 00:13:43,679 Speaker 3: not going to do that most likely. And the other 302 00:13:43,800 --> 00:13:46,199 Speaker 3: part of this process is the President really trying to 303 00:13:46,280 --> 00:13:50,560 Speaker 3: socialize with the markets, this idea of replacing the FED chair. 304 00:13:51,360 --> 00:13:53,959 Speaker 3: The only guardrail working in the United States today in 305 00:13:54,080 --> 00:13:56,839 Speaker 3: terms of a check on executive power is the bond market, 306 00:13:57,120 --> 00:13:59,520 Speaker 3: and I think that's what they're most worried about. The 307 00:14:00,120 --> 00:14:03,360 Speaker 3: September FOMC meeting is critical and we'll see what the 308 00:14:03,400 --> 00:14:05,319 Speaker 3: FED does. Otherwise we have a shadow FED chair. 309 00:14:05,440 --> 00:14:07,720 Speaker 6: Well, wouldn't it be even harder though, for the collective 310 00:14:07,800 --> 00:14:10,800 Speaker 6: body of the FOMC to cut if he was to 311 00:14:10,840 --> 00:14:12,640 Speaker 6: get rid of the FED chair or say he was 312 00:14:12,720 --> 00:14:14,520 Speaker 6: going to fire him after the September meeting. 313 00:14:15,600 --> 00:14:18,920 Speaker 3: Absolutely, I think you know, everyone in the markets understands 314 00:14:19,000 --> 00:14:22,520 Speaker 3: that it's a twelve member FOMC vote. It's not just 315 00:14:22,640 --> 00:14:26,440 Speaker 3: the FED chair. But the President sees Palell as the obstacle, 316 00:14:27,040 --> 00:14:29,880 Speaker 3: and he really wants a FED chair in, whether it's 317 00:14:29,960 --> 00:14:33,400 Speaker 3: shadow or if Palell resigns. Even if Palell resigns, by 318 00:14:33,440 --> 00:14:36,400 Speaker 3: the way, the FOMC picks the FED chair, So I 319 00:14:36,440 --> 00:14:39,200 Speaker 3: think what the President's really doing is using Palell as 320 00:14:39,240 --> 00:14:42,440 Speaker 3: the punching bag for higher rates. He's also worried. I 321 00:14:42,480 --> 00:14:45,360 Speaker 3: think that even though the administration doesn't believe the terris 322 00:14:45,400 --> 00:14:48,240 Speaker 3: will be inflationary, that if inflation does pick up over 323 00:14:48,280 --> 00:14:51,280 Speaker 3: the next several months, you can blame the FED, blame Pale. 324 00:14:51,640 --> 00:14:55,360 Speaker 3: But ultimately I think this shadow FED chair idea, which 325 00:14:55,680 --> 00:14:58,360 Speaker 3: even three or four months ago sounded really far out 326 00:14:58,400 --> 00:15:02,120 Speaker 3: there or deeply concerning for markets, is now being socialized 327 00:15:02,160 --> 00:15:03,760 Speaker 3: and probably happens after September. 328 00:15:03,880 --> 00:15:05,760 Speaker 6: Well, the Treasury Secretary talked about the fact that there 329 00:15:05,800 --> 00:15:08,320 Speaker 6: could be confusion with a shadow FED chair if j. 330 00:15:08,600 --> 00:15:12,880 Speaker 6: Powell doesn't step down after his chairmanship is over, but 331 00:15:12,960 --> 00:15:15,360 Speaker 6: he still has a governor seat until twenty twenty eight. 332 00:15:15,600 --> 00:15:17,800 Speaker 6: Do you have any indication that he would stay the 333 00:15:17,880 --> 00:15:19,600 Speaker 6: course until twenty twenty eight? 334 00:15:20,480 --> 00:15:24,120 Speaker 3: Absolutely? I think Chair Powell will stay on the board 335 00:15:24,320 --> 00:15:27,560 Speaker 3: after his chair term ends, and he stays on the 336 00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:28,720 Speaker 3: board until the end of. 337 00:15:28,760 --> 00:15:31,440 Speaker 6: His term in twenty twenty eight, wouldn't that look very political, 338 00:15:31,560 --> 00:15:35,560 Speaker 6: Trembles Charles, That would look incredibly political. Most chairs step down. 339 00:15:37,040 --> 00:15:39,240 Speaker 3: Absolutely, but I think it would be a really strong 340 00:15:39,360 --> 00:15:42,080 Speaker 3: statement by Chair Powell, encouraged by some of the other 341 00:15:42,200 --> 00:15:45,880 Speaker 3: members of the FOMC, perhaps as a statement of very 342 00:15:45,920 --> 00:15:49,440 Speaker 3: strong independence. And that's why I think he stays on Charles. 343 00:15:49,440 --> 00:15:51,920 Speaker 1: There's the question of what happens if, let's say Chair 344 00:15:51,960 --> 00:15:55,360 Speaker 1: Powell is fired and for cause, let's get get smired 345 00:15:55,400 --> 00:15:58,360 Speaker 1: in all sorts of legal disputes. There's this issue of 346 00:15:58,440 --> 00:16:02,760 Speaker 1: does Congress confirm whoever President Trump nominates to replace him? 347 00:16:03,200 --> 00:16:06,760 Speaker 1: How much unity is there right now among Republican Congress members. 348 00:16:08,240 --> 00:16:10,800 Speaker 3: Well, I think you know, whoever is nominated has to 349 00:16:10,880 --> 00:16:14,600 Speaker 3: be confirmed in the Senate. The Senate, including the Republican 350 00:16:14,720 --> 00:16:19,160 Speaker 3: Caucus and the Republican leadership, do take fed independence very seriously. 351 00:16:19,520 --> 00:16:23,600 Speaker 3: So whoever is nominated will be a very respectable and 352 00:16:23,680 --> 00:16:26,880 Speaker 3: acceptable and very positive person for the markets. It'll be 353 00:16:27,000 --> 00:16:29,320 Speaker 3: one of the folks that are auditioning very publicly for it. 354 00:16:30,720 --> 00:16:33,040 Speaker 3: You know, But in the end, I don't think that's 355 00:16:33,080 --> 00:16:35,160 Speaker 3: going to be the issue that person will get confirmed. 356 00:16:35,520 --> 00:16:37,960 Speaker 3: The issue is, you know, will they try to sway 357 00:16:38,000 --> 00:16:39,800 Speaker 3: the FMC to be more dubbish. 358 00:16:40,280 --> 00:16:42,600 Speaker 2: Charles Moss a second of glove that fives as Chiles. 359 00:16:43,080 --> 00:16:55,160 Speaker 2: Thank you, Seth Angela. So you know I CFIRA has 360 00:16:55,160 --> 00:16:57,600 Speaker 2: a buy rising on chance of alphabbat at two ten 361 00:16:57,680 --> 00:17:00,400 Speaker 2: Friest talk and Angela, welcome to the program. That ad 362 00:17:00,520 --> 00:17:03,680 Speaker 2: model at alphabet How insulated is it right now? 363 00:17:05,160 --> 00:17:08,040 Speaker 8: Yes, thanks for having me John. As far as kind 364 00:17:08,080 --> 00:17:10,639 Speaker 8: of the ad model is concerned, I mean, listen, I 365 00:17:10,760 --> 00:17:13,800 Speaker 8: think they're doing a lot of great things as far 366 00:17:14,080 --> 00:17:17,160 Speaker 8: as what's going on across search as well as YouTube 367 00:17:17,680 --> 00:17:21,679 Speaker 8: integrating AI across the ecosystem. You've got AI mode ramping 368 00:17:21,800 --> 00:17:26,760 Speaker 8: here on search AI overviews. So overall, I think the 369 00:17:26,840 --> 00:17:30,960 Speaker 8: monetization potential looks pretty good as far as their AD 370 00:17:31,080 --> 00:17:35,440 Speaker 8: based businesses and AI integrating across that ecosystem. You know, 371 00:17:35,520 --> 00:17:37,600 Speaker 8: clearly there is a risk as we kind of go 372 00:17:37,760 --> 00:17:40,720 Speaker 8: on here over the next couple of years, eventually open 373 00:17:40,800 --> 00:17:43,520 Speaker 8: ai and others out there will probably have some sort 374 00:17:43,560 --> 00:17:46,680 Speaker 8: of ad supported models, and that is you know, clearly 375 00:17:47,119 --> 00:17:50,280 Speaker 8: a risk here for alphabet So sitting here today, I mean, 376 00:17:50,359 --> 00:17:53,879 Speaker 8: we do think their ads. Google's ad supported businesses probably 377 00:17:53,960 --> 00:17:56,440 Speaker 8: grow around in line with the broader digital ad market, 378 00:17:56,520 --> 00:18:00,000 Speaker 8: let's call it high single digit growth. But you know, ultimately, 379 00:18:00,280 --> 00:18:02,040 Speaker 8: as we kind of go into some of these forward 380 00:18:02,080 --> 00:18:04,840 Speaker 8: looking years twenty twenty six, twenty twenty seven, we're looking 381 00:18:04,880 --> 00:18:07,400 Speaker 8: at the growth pace of you know, something like search 382 00:18:07,520 --> 00:18:09,760 Speaker 8: to grow at about half the pace of the digital 383 00:18:09,800 --> 00:18:12,080 Speaker 8: ad market, just because you're going to have some you know, 384 00:18:12,240 --> 00:18:14,480 Speaker 8: increasing competitive pressures out there. 385 00:18:14,560 --> 00:18:18,080 Speaker 1: Angela, are we underestimating the speed of the adoption of 386 00:18:18,320 --> 00:18:22,360 Speaker 1: open ai, of chatchpt and some of these algorithmic models 387 00:18:22,480 --> 00:18:26,280 Speaker 1: that some people find superior to the classic search model. 388 00:18:26,280 --> 00:18:29,240 Speaker 1: I mean, I was listening to John and man deep talking, 389 00:18:29,320 --> 00:18:31,840 Speaker 1: and I'm thinking to myself, I've known so many people 390 00:18:31,880 --> 00:18:34,320 Speaker 1: over the past six months that have utterly transformed their 391 00:18:34,359 --> 00:18:37,960 Speaker 1: workflow because of chat GPT. Is the timeframe a little 392 00:18:37,960 --> 00:18:40,600 Speaker 1: bit faster potentially than what we're talking about. 393 00:18:41,240 --> 00:18:44,320 Speaker 8: I mean potentially, I mean, well, I guess we'll see here. 394 00:18:44,480 --> 00:18:48,320 Speaker 8: I mean, ultimately, people are doing search and you know, 395 00:18:48,480 --> 00:18:52,120 Speaker 8: in a different way than they have historically. But when 396 00:18:52,160 --> 00:18:56,440 Speaker 8: we think about just overall, what app Alphabet has, you know, 397 00:18:56,520 --> 00:18:58,800 Speaker 8: across their ecosystem as well, I don't think it should 398 00:18:58,840 --> 00:19:03,160 Speaker 8: be underestimated. I think Gemini is an enormously powerful tool. 399 00:19:03,200 --> 00:19:06,119 Speaker 8: I mean, I'm personally a power user of Gemini. I 400 00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:09,240 Speaker 8: do love the fact that it's across their entire eco 401 00:19:09,640 --> 00:19:12,680 Speaker 8: system out there. There is an advantage out there to that. 402 00:19:12,840 --> 00:19:17,080 Speaker 8: I think that Alphabet is getting extremely smart with Gemini, 403 00:19:17,280 --> 00:19:19,440 Speaker 8: So you know, I don't think you can completely dismiss 404 00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:23,639 Speaker 8: Alphabet specifically and what they're doing across the AI ecosystem, 405 00:19:23,680 --> 00:19:26,280 Speaker 8: not to mention their infrastructure I think is better than 406 00:19:26,400 --> 00:19:29,800 Speaker 8: just about anyone else's out there. But again that being said, 407 00:19:30,040 --> 00:19:32,680 Speaker 8: I mean maybe to your point, with what open ai 408 00:19:32,840 --> 00:19:35,240 Speaker 8: is doing with chet, GPT and and others out there 409 00:19:35,280 --> 00:19:37,280 Speaker 8: as well, there are going to be more options out 410 00:19:37,320 --> 00:19:39,320 Speaker 8: there in the market, and that is something that I think, 411 00:19:39,560 --> 00:19:42,280 Speaker 8: you know, as an analyst, you can't underestimate and you 412 00:19:42,359 --> 00:19:45,320 Speaker 8: do have to factor that into your future assumptions. But 413 00:19:45,440 --> 00:19:48,920 Speaker 8: we do expect, you know, ultimately, their ad supported businesses 414 00:19:49,000 --> 00:19:51,159 Speaker 8: to continue to grow. It's just not going to be 415 00:19:51,200 --> 00:19:53,120 Speaker 8: at the pace that you know, maybe you're seeing from 416 00:19:53,359 --> 00:19:55,760 Speaker 8: you know, the market here over time because of the 417 00:19:55,840 --> 00:19:57,920 Speaker 8: broadening out and greater competitive pressures. 418 00:19:57,960 --> 00:20:00,159 Speaker 1: A couple of months ago, there was a skepticis them 419 00:20:00,200 --> 00:20:02,960 Speaker 1: on Wall Street about the amount of money that hyperscalers 420 00:20:02,960 --> 00:20:05,320 Speaker 1: were spending on R and D on CAPEX, and there 421 00:20:05,440 --> 00:20:08,480 Speaker 1: was this question of are they overspending? Meta had said 422 00:20:08,680 --> 00:20:11,760 Speaker 1: we can't spend enough. Do you think this season you're 423 00:20:11,800 --> 00:20:15,040 Speaker 1: going to see a rewarding by investors of companies they 424 00:20:15,119 --> 00:20:17,600 Speaker 1: increase their CAPEX spend dramatically or do you think that 425 00:20:17,680 --> 00:20:19,639 Speaker 1: that's going to be treated with the same skepticisms a 426 00:20:19,680 --> 00:20:21,000 Speaker 1: couple of months ago. 427 00:20:21,640 --> 00:20:22,960 Speaker 8: Well, I think what you're actually going to see this 428 00:20:23,040 --> 00:20:25,879 Speaker 8: earning season. I think you're going to see CAPEX spending 429 00:20:25,960 --> 00:20:29,960 Speaker 8: plan plans sustained and not increased. We actually saw Beta 430 00:20:30,040 --> 00:20:32,520 Speaker 8: increase it last earning season. As far as their twenty 431 00:20:32,560 --> 00:20:35,280 Speaker 8: twenty five CAPEX guidance, I think, you know, Microsoft has 432 00:20:35,280 --> 00:20:36,920 Speaker 8: actually done a pretty good job here over the last 433 00:20:36,960 --> 00:20:40,520 Speaker 8: couple of quarters, essentially kind of flatlining the CAPEX number, 434 00:20:40,640 --> 00:20:43,200 Speaker 8: leveling it out. This is their year end, so we'll 435 00:20:43,240 --> 00:20:45,359 Speaker 8: kind of see what type of guidance and outlook they 436 00:20:45,440 --> 00:20:48,880 Speaker 8: decided to provide here for investors here over the next year. 437 00:20:49,160 --> 00:20:52,080 Speaker 8: But I actually think for the most part, you're going 438 00:20:52,160 --> 00:20:56,960 Speaker 8: to actually see more favorable return ROI metrics across kind 439 00:20:57,000 --> 00:21:00,480 Speaker 8: of some of these cloud providers because of how they're 440 00:21:00,560 --> 00:21:03,320 Speaker 8: spending on the cappet side of things, they are shifting 441 00:21:03,400 --> 00:21:06,119 Speaker 8: more towards the server side of things here over the 442 00:21:06,200 --> 00:21:08,480 Speaker 8: next couple of borders and years, and and you know, 443 00:21:08,600 --> 00:21:12,200 Speaker 8: clearly the growth piece is you know, starting starting to 444 00:21:12,320 --> 00:21:14,680 Speaker 8: kind of decelerate and level out a little bit here. 445 00:21:14,720 --> 00:21:17,159 Speaker 8: So I think kind of the return on investments are 446 00:21:17,200 --> 00:21:20,359 Speaker 8: going to see considerable improvement here, not only over the 447 00:21:20,440 --> 00:21:22,200 Speaker 8: next you know, a couple of months, but you know, 448 00:21:22,320 --> 00:21:24,680 Speaker 8: over the next couple of years, and I think investors 449 00:21:24,720 --> 00:21:27,040 Speaker 8: will reward that. Maybe to your point, I think the 450 00:21:27,080 --> 00:21:29,960 Speaker 8: other important point here or item to look out for 451 00:21:30,119 --> 00:21:33,080 Speaker 8: here this earning season is something along the lines or 452 00:21:33,320 --> 00:21:35,240 Speaker 8: you know, looking at the op X side of things, 453 00:21:35,320 --> 00:21:38,879 Speaker 8: something that these companies have really been you know, holding 454 00:21:38,960 --> 00:21:41,919 Speaker 8: kind of leveling out here over the last couple of years. Actually, 455 00:21:41,920 --> 00:21:46,240 Speaker 8: if you look at employee headcount, whether it be from Google, Microsoft, 456 00:21:46,320 --> 00:21:50,680 Speaker 8: announcing recently some of their head count reductions essentially down 457 00:21:50,800 --> 00:21:52,840 Speaker 8: over the last kind of two to three years, flat 458 00:21:52,880 --> 00:21:55,320 Speaker 8: to down, And I think it'll be interesting to kind 459 00:21:55,359 --> 00:21:58,760 Speaker 8: of see how these all these companies comment relative to 460 00:21:58,880 --> 00:22:02,160 Speaker 8: what we've seen here from Zuckerberg over the last couple 461 00:22:02,200 --> 00:22:04,320 Speaker 8: of weeks and months. I think that's going to be 462 00:22:04,440 --> 00:22:06,120 Speaker 8: really an important storyliner. 463 00:22:05,640 --> 00:22:08,159 Speaker 2: As well, Angelo, I appreciate it. Angela's in O there 464 00:22:08,480 --> 00:22:13,359 Speaker 2: as CFRA. This is the Bloomberg Surveillance podcast, bringing you 465 00:22:13,760 --> 00:22:17,120 Speaker 2: the best in markets, economics, and geopolitics. You can watch 466 00:22:17,160 --> 00:22:19,920 Speaker 2: the show live on Bloomberg TV weekday mornings from six 467 00:22:19,960 --> 00:22:24,320 Speaker 2: am to nine am Eastern. Subscribe to the podcast on Apple, Spotify, 468 00:22:24,520 --> 00:22:26,720 Speaker 2: or anywhere else you listen, and as always, on the 469 00:22:26,760 --> 00:22:29,160 Speaker 2: Bloomberg Terminal and the Bloomberg Business app.