Speaker 1: Of the Law and Order franchises, SVU is considered especially watchable.
Speaker 2: We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the
Speaker 2: vicious felonies.
Speaker 3: These episodes are based on. These are our stories done
Speaker 3: Dune Yay.
Speaker 2: Another episode of That's Messed Up an SVIE podcast. My
Speaker 2: name is Lisa and my name is Kara, And on
Speaker 2: this podcast we talk about an episode of Long Order SVU,
Speaker 2: talk about the true crime its based on, and we
Speaker 2: interview a fabulous guest.
Speaker 1: And today will be no different. But really quickly, before
Speaker 1: we dive into our catch up that we do top
Speaker 1: of show, which some of you love and some of
Speaker 1: you absolutely hate, we want to just remind.
Speaker 3: You that we're going to be on tour this fall.
Speaker 1: Beer Beer Beer We're going to be doing our Spooky
Speaker 1: Season tour. It's mostly you know, West, We're in a
Speaker 1: West coast cities. We're gonna be in Denver on the sixteenth,
Speaker 1: Phoenix the seventeenth, San Diego the twentieth, Los Angeles the
Speaker 1: twenty first, San Francisco the twenty second, and Portland the
Speaker 1: twenty third. So come see us, guys. We love, absolutely
Speaker 1: love doing our live shows for you. We're in the
Speaker 1: process of ordering some very fun tour specific merchant.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that we set up. I'm excited.
Speaker 2: Yeah and we And I'm on solo tour too, guys.
Speaker 3: I'm on. I'm getting the road.
Speaker 2: I'm actually just today at it a date, so September
Speaker 2: twenty seventh and twenty eighth, I'll be at Raley Akaka
Speaker 2: Baby at the Amber check her out and Carrie.
Speaker 3: But I'm doing show Intel shows.
Speaker 2: I'm going everywhere Toronto, I think like states I've never
Speaker 2: been to.
Speaker 3: But great. Yeah, So go to that s messed Up
Speaker 3: live dot com you'll see.
Speaker 2: Oh, and I'm gonna do a show in Tell in
Speaker 2: La Oh in October. I'm just waiting. I think it's
Speaker 2: like right before we go on tour. I'm doing a
Speaker 2: show in Tell at the Belly Room. So if you
Speaker 2: want to watch a grown comedians doing show and tell,
Speaker 2: I would come to that show.
Speaker 3: Oh maybe I can get booked.
Speaker 1: So go to thats messed Up live dot com that
Speaker 1: has all of our tour dates listed, and then below
Speaker 1: you'll see where it says Lisa's website that takes you
Speaker 1: to all of Lisa's tour dates as well, so you
Speaker 1: can see where she's up and at him, and yeah,
Speaker 1: we do recaps of fun episodes.
Speaker 2: They know that reminds me of the Simpsons, What up
Speaker 2: and Up and Adam. That's like a huge thing in
Speaker 2: Radioactive Man episode because the line like, well, they're like
Speaker 2: filming a movie and the line is up and at them,
Speaker 2: But this Arnold Schwarzenegger type of guy can't say that,
Speaker 2: so he keeps it up and at them, and we're like,
Speaker 2: and then they keep going at them and they can't
Speaker 2: and he just can't. Well, I us say it's one
Speaker 2: of the most overrated episodes of the series, but I
Speaker 2: take it back, not that I mean I'm here to
Speaker 2: make a statement. Yeah, but we are. If you've never
Speaker 2: been to our live shows, they're extremely fun. We recap
Speaker 2: an episode that doesn't really have a true crime component,
Speaker 2: just like one of the Funner Camp your episodes. And
Speaker 2: if you've seen us live, don't worry, we are going
Speaker 2: to do a different episode. We never do the same
Speaker 2: episode in the same city. Arrah, Let's do murder mystery games, yeah,
Speaker 2: JK or not. That's false advertising. We will not be
Speaker 2: like what does that mean mean that we like murder?
Speaker 2: Let's get a mystery And I have no idea we
Speaker 2: want to come up with. I mean, do we want
Speaker 2: you guys wearing costumes pretty much? Yes, we would love
Speaker 2: you to be Wait, that's a great idea. You guys
Speaker 2: dress like SVU characters.
Speaker 1: We have had people do this before, which we absolutely love,
Speaker 1: and we do do like a meet and greet after
Speaker 1: and I will say that you get more excitement from
Speaker 1: us if you are dressed up like Rollin's with her
Speaker 1: outerwear or you're dressed up like that.
Speaker 2: But this happened in Raleigh because we told people to
Speaker 2: wear costumes and only two girls did and they're like, yeah,
Speaker 2: we thought more people would have done that.
Speaker 1: I thought this was all yeah, But I think it's
Speaker 1: so funny to dress like as like really deep cut people,
Speaker 1: like dresses like Cynthia Nixon with the pigtails, or like
Speaker 1: don't just be Benson stable or rawlis.
Speaker 3: Whatever you can. You totally can.
Speaker 1: But I mean you get extra points if you dress
Speaker 1: oh my god, like come as Carol Burnett and Matthew
Speaker 1: Lillard together like a one of you's like got a
Speaker 1: We need to be front facing.
Speaker 2: We need to let people know that they need to
Speaker 2: do Yes, I want we will in costumes for Halloween
Speaker 2: shows and we will have prizes ready for you, like yeah, fuck, yes, yeah,
Speaker 2: we're doing this, and it might be a batch of
Speaker 2: bracelets from Lisa Trigger.
Speaker 1: That might be the prize. We're not sure. But anyway,
Speaker 1: enough enough selling you on the tour.
Speaker 2: I do want to talk about Okay, So my birthday
Speaker 2: was this past weekend and I booked just a back
Speaker 2: room for a restaurant, very sex in the city two
Speaker 2: thousand and four. We walked in and it was like
Speaker 2: we catapulted back to the early two thousands. Then I
Speaker 2: did implement a Carry Bradshaw costume contest, and then I
Speaker 2: quickly canceled it. No one wanted to do it. They
Speaker 2: were so annoyed. Oh did I already talk about this?
Speaker 1: Well, you told me about that you were hoping to
Speaker 1: do Carrie Bradshaw, but then I had heard you were
Speaker 1: canceling it, so I wasn't.
Speaker 2: No one was happy. The one person that it was
Speaker 2: easy for Marie. She just did it. But like, and
Speaker 2: then I also started like buying these weird intricate carry
Speaker 2: Bradshaw and then I was like, I just want to
Speaker 2: look cute.
Speaker 3: What am I doing? So I do already have a
Speaker 3: Halloween costume.
Speaker 2: I have like a carry bradshaw a Halloween because I
Speaker 2: ordered all this stuff. I'm wearing a Elizaviet the name
Speaker 2: plate right now, like I did want to do it,
Speaker 2: and then I.
Speaker 3: Love that you have that. That's really cool.
Speaker 2: You know it's gold plated, so hopefully, Like I don't
Speaker 2: know how gold plated works, Like, well, my next turn
Speaker 2: green or not?
Speaker 3: Like I don't know. I usually buy goal.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I actually have no fucking clue. Jewelry
Speaker 1: is the last thing on my list of things I'm
Speaker 1: good at.
Speaker 2: Oh. But then after dinner, I was like, in my head,
Speaker 2: I was like bor hop, bar hop, but instead we
Speaker 2: watched Sex in the City in my apartment till two
Speaker 2: in the morning. Oh, I mean only the stragglers, but
Speaker 2: like we never left my apartment again.
Speaker 3: It was amazing. It was truly my dream. It was
Speaker 3: everything I ever wanted.
Speaker 2: It was just like everyone's smoking weed in my apartment,
Speaker 2: watching Sex in the City making jokes, and I was like, wow, look.
Speaker 3: At me living.
Speaker 2: Because I I haven't been able to host people in years,
Speaker 2: I would say, like years and years and years. So
Speaker 2: I was just like so happy to show off all
Speaker 2: my art. That's been in storage forever and it just
Speaker 2: felt really it felt really really nice.
Speaker 3: That's great. I love it.
Speaker 1: I can't wait to be a guest at Chateau trigger Oh.
Speaker 2: And I got surprised Friday by a few friends and
Speaker 2: I did see Ariana Maddix in Chicago on Broadway.
Speaker 1: Thank god, you're telling me now that it's a surprise,
Speaker 1: because when I saw the pictures, I go, how is
Speaker 1: it possible. I talked to Lisa for hours a week
Speaker 1: and she did not mention that she was going to
Speaker 1: see Arianna.
Speaker 3: I did. I was surprised. I'm like, this is crazy
Speaker 3: that she just forgot to mention this.
Speaker 2: I didn't know until like six pm, maybe five pms.
Speaker 3: Fun because Julia went.
Speaker 2: To the tickets booth after work, so like they didn't
Speaker 2: know if they were going to get it or not.
Speaker 2: So I guess our friend Lauren was told to entertain me,
Speaker 2: which is like, well, it's quite easy, I would say,
Speaker 2: And then so I dollar sellar asked her about the bracelets,
Speaker 2: like I'm not no, I have come to terms that
Speaker 2: I only talk about the same five things over and
Speaker 2: over again, and then that's it, like sorry, there's nothing
Speaker 2: more to me. It's just like sex crime, soul cycle, bracelets,
Speaker 2: and I don't know, mud coffee, like that's all I
Speaker 2: talk about. But so like at five thirty, I got
Speaker 2: the FaceTime that said, guess what we're doing, and then
Speaker 2: I got dressed really fast.
Speaker 3: And we like headed up town. And I was blown
Speaker 3: away by her.
Speaker 2: She exceeded all of my expectations, like I'm not saying
Speaker 2: like I was like, oh yeah, give her another part,
Speaker 2: Like I don't think she would have booked Broadway without what,
Speaker 2: you know, the fame or whatever. But she exceeded my
Speaker 2: expectations ten times. Like I don't know if my expectations
Speaker 2: were too low, but like I was blown away by Arianna,
Speaker 2: Like I think she did an amazing job.
Speaker 3: So she can sing. Yeah, she like sang with everyone.
Speaker 2: But and I talked to someone that like loves theater
Speaker 2: today too, But the rest of the cast dead behind
Speaker 2: the eyes. I would say, you know some of these people,
Speaker 2: because I was talking to some of them. It's like
Speaker 2: some of these people, this is just their desk job,
Speaker 2: like they've been on this show for fifteen years, and honey,
Speaker 2: you can tell. But guess who was Mama Morton or
Speaker 2: Fha it was or Fay yeah, yeah, I know that
Speaker 2: is exciting. Yeah no, And I mean the they're incredible,
Speaker 2: like it's just a pair. The movie Chicago is so
Speaker 2: good that it is hard, like to watch The Broadway
Speaker 2: and just be thinking about.
Speaker 3: Well a movie.
Speaker 1: I I'm a flip because I saw The Broadway with
Speaker 1: bb Newarth and Anne Ryan King, like it's a.
Speaker 3: Set back then, like because.
Speaker 2: Someone told me that it switched twenty five years ago
Speaker 2: and something different, but like there was no set. It's
Speaker 2: the Symphony orchestra, like not the symphony, like the Chicago
Speaker 2: Orchestra's up there, and you know it's jazz baby, so
Speaker 2: like there's people there, but there's no set.
Speaker 1: There's not a desk, there's there was a set. There
Speaker 1: was like a jail there was like, yeah, there was
Speaker 1: a set. Nothing there's it's very paired down. They had
Speaker 1: to pare it down so they could afford all the
Speaker 1: stunt casting that they do.
Speaker 3: For that show.
Speaker 2: And I love the music, like it's so good and
Speaker 2: people are talented, but a lot some of them need
Speaker 2: to like pep up a little. And Arianna was amazing.
Speaker 2: I teared up outside while we were waiting for her.
Speaker 2: And there's just like a poster where she's holding it,
Speaker 2: this says Roxy Rocks, and I started tearing up.
Speaker 3: I'm like, I'm just so proud of her, like I
Speaker 3: can't even believe it.
Speaker 2: And she came out to do curtain call and not
Speaker 2: curtain call, it's called you know, stage door.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and we got a nice view of her.
Speaker 2: She is really really really tiny, short, short, little yeah beauty,
Speaker 2: but she looked great in her sweats.
Speaker 3: I don't know, it.
Speaker 2: Was it felt special and I was really proud of her,
Speaker 2: and I thought she nailed it.
Speaker 3: That's great.
Speaker 1: I mean, I just I saw like two legends do
Speaker 1: that when I was like six, who was I knew?
Speaker 1: And Anne Ryan King, who was like they're like I
Speaker 1: I mean I think they maybe originated those I could
Speaker 1: be totally talking out of my ass, but they like
Speaker 1: are legend and so like, and this wasn't.
Speaker 3: Honestly, I saw this in nineteen ninety six.
Speaker 1: Babies, Like, I saw this so long ago that it
Speaker 1: was like there was definitely still razzle dazzle on the show.
Speaker 1: But yeah, it's been going for a long time. And
Speaker 1: uh yeah, I'm sure the cast is like da da
Speaker 1: da oh yes, so yes, yes, they both like just
Speaker 1: that's how I felt like some of it was just
Speaker 1: a little tired, but the people I was with disagreed
Speaker 1: with me and thought I was being a bitch.
Speaker 3: So I don't know.
Speaker 2: But she really did amazing Like I thought I would
Speaker 2: be like ugh, but it wasn't. It was like she
Speaker 2: really did a good job and it's great. But the
Speaker 2: movie is just one of the best movie musicals ever made.
Speaker 3: It is. It is quite good. I do really like
Speaker 3: the movie a lot.
Speaker 2: I remember it when it came up when I was
Speaker 2: in high scho It came out when I was in
Speaker 2: high school, and I think, yeah, I could not stop
Speaker 2: watching it, and we were a big Catherine Zada Owns
Speaker 2: household because we loved Zoro.
Speaker 3: We like Mask of Zorro as a family. Yeah. Oh interesting, Yeah,
Speaker 3: I love that. That's it.
Speaker 1: I learn something new about the triggers every day. We
Speaker 1: love Catherine's Zada Jones. In this house, beans never expire
Speaker 1: and Catherine Zada.
Speaker 3: Jones is Queen. Well, I'm seeing them tomorrow. I'm seeing them.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, I'm going a day early to play
Speaker 2: some games. But then my friends are coming over and
Speaker 2: my mom's cooking for them, so I'm really excited.
Speaker 1: You're going, and you're going tomorrow in anticipation of are
Speaker 1: you also performing or is it just the birthday weekend?
Speaker 3: No, it's just the fortieth birthday weekend.
Speaker 2: Then I got invited to a Bears game and then
Speaker 2: I fly to LA and then we made up in Well,
Speaker 2: I'll probably see you in LA. But then Palm Springs
Speaker 2: is ours. Yeah, it's like all I can think about.
Speaker 2: It's I can't wait to fucking pack right now, which
Speaker 2: has never come out of my mouth. But I think
Speaker 2: it's because I'm not on the road NonStop, like I've
Speaker 2: never been on the road like this long ever besides
Speaker 2: COVID of course.
Speaker 1: And so yeah, I'm like kind of I'm ex I
Speaker 1: to fly and pack, pack and fly. Get to that lounge. Baby,
Speaker 1: you got to reconnect, I know.
Speaker 2: I I'm really excited for Palm Springs. You guys are
Speaker 2: gonna have a lot to hear afterwards. It'll be good
Speaker 2: because I just want to float in a pool. I
Speaker 2: just love pools, and I hate in cities. Everything closes early,
Speaker 2: like Labor Day weekend, that's it, Like that's when the
Speaker 2: lifeguards pack it up, man, And I'm like, wait, it's
Speaker 2: eighty degree, Like let me swim, but I missed the
Speaker 2: beach on Monday because I made bracelets all night, so
Speaker 2: you know, priorities.
Speaker 3: Baby.
Speaker 2: Then I slept so four or five pm, so of
Speaker 2: course that fucks me up, and then I have diet
Speaker 2: cox too late, and then I didn't sleep again the
Speaker 2: next night. Well, because I think I told you earlier,
Speaker 2: but for those who don't know, since our friend is
Speaker 2: turning forty, I did make him forty friendship bracelets and
Speaker 2: that took some time.
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, because you're using an extremely toxic glue that
Speaker 1: I really worry about you using in your small apartment,
Speaker 1: and it takes seventy two hours to dry, and I
Speaker 1: no doubt you're sitting there breathing it for most of
Speaker 1: that's seventy two hours, and I'm nervous.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm gonna get a different glue.
Speaker 2: But it's yeah, the colors, I don't know, it's just
Speaker 2: like it. I love words and I love colors, and that's.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's it.
Speaker 1: And you love references and jokes and knowing things about people,
Speaker 1: and I think that's right.
Speaker 2: That's very mother added little layer. Oh, and then I
Speaker 2: got gifted a gold bracelet that says.
Speaker 3: Manya oh that's so lovely. Who gave you that? Julia
Speaker 3: and Lane? Did? I already scuff it up? Probably?
Speaker 1: That's really sweet because you gave me a bracelet that
Speaker 1: says Rosie and Oscar on it.
Speaker 3: So yours is silver? Sorry, yeah, mine's gold. That's okay.
Speaker 2: I couldn't afford it. Yeah, it's yeah. Actually that's what
Speaker 2: I brought you here today to talk about.
Speaker 1: Speaking of Rosie, I am taking her to see Beetle
Speaker 1: Juice Beetle Juice this weekend. I hope that I'm not
Speaker 1: going to get a lot of judgment until mom's telling
Speaker 1: me she's too young, but she's begging, she's begging to go.
Speaker 1: I did arrange for Oscar to go on like basically
Speaker 1: a date with his old babysitter who's obsessed with him.
Speaker 1: So he's gonna not be there even though I texted
Speaker 1: you this, but he recently told Jared he goes you
Speaker 1: and you and Mom and Rosie like bad things and
Speaker 1: I like good things, and Jared was like, what are
Speaker 1: you talking about? He goes like, I like rainbows and
Speaker 1: unicorns and everything beautiful, and Jared goes, what do we like?
Speaker 3: And he goes Beetlejuice.
Speaker 1: So obviously he's made his feelings known about Beetlejuice, and
Speaker 1: now he just loves talking about things that are beautiful
Speaker 1: and things everything that's beautiful.
Speaker 3: So, hey, did I mention good Rich on this podcast
Speaker 3: yet or no? Well by a long time ago when
Speaker 3: you were shooting it.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, So I am an a Michael Keaton movie
Speaker 2: and it comes out October eighteenth.
Speaker 3: And they didn't cut me out. They didn't cut me out.
Speaker 2: I saw a little SNIPPE saw a little snip all right, exciting.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm on the IMDb baby, so.
Speaker 1: Well, beetle Juice, Beetle Juice, I think will be good
Speaker 1: because it's like Michael Keaton's been kind of laying low
Speaker 1: for a minute. Now he'll have beetlejuice, beetle juice, and
Speaker 1: then it'll roll right into the press for good Rich.
Speaker 1: What's good for the beetle is good for the Liza.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know. I'm making up, bicking up platitude.
Speaker 2: I just I've been holding onto this photo of me
Speaker 2: and Michael Keaton for far too long, like I need
Speaker 2: to put in photos.
Speaker 3: We've got to get that out. I gotta get this out.
Speaker 2: But it was really cool to spend time with Beetlejuice,
Speaker 2: and I'm glad I have a really.
Speaker 1: State an absolute icon. I mean me and Michael Keaton
Speaker 1: is a huge part of my life, you know. I'm like,
Speaker 1: Michael Keaton is my Batman, He's my Beetlejuice.
Speaker 2: Like, do you want multiplicity, Well, multiplicity is actually a
Speaker 2: good one for cine matrix. I'm always putting multiplicity down.
Speaker 2: I've never seen that one Batman. Oh really, yeah.
Speaker 1: Michael, Michael Keaton's is worth it. Michael Keaton's Batman is
Speaker 1: worth it. It's Jack Nicholson and as a joker. Is
Speaker 1: Michael Key in the original Batman?
Speaker 3: Not original?
Speaker 1: I mean original in like the ones that sort of
Speaker 1: came back in our lifetime. I mean Ray Adam West
Speaker 1: was Batman back in right the day I'm looking at you.
Speaker 1: But yes, of modern times, he's the original of the
Speaker 1: movie Batman. Nicole Kidman is I'm sorry no. Kim Basinger
Speaker 1: is the love interest. We were a big Kim Basinger
Speaker 1: household too. We love the real McCoy.
Speaker 3: We love I.
Speaker 1: Would love Kim Basinger to have like a sort of
Speaker 1: later in life, like the way Michelle Pfeiffer kind of
Speaker 1: went away for a bit and then came back, like,
Speaker 1: let's get Kim Basinger back out there.
Speaker 2: Michelle Pfeiffer as her husband's loaded too, so they can yes,
Speaker 2: like I don't know as Kim. Yeah, that's what I mean.
Speaker 2: I mean, why am I nervous about these millionaires? I know,
Speaker 2: I hope they're doing okay, But you know, Michelle Pfeiffer
Speaker 2: is part of a power couple. Yes, but you see television.
Speaker 2: Today's Cinematrix is directors. I'm pissed.
Speaker 1: Oh I bombed it, Like immediately I kind of tried
Speaker 1: to do it and was like, no, I don't.
Speaker 3: Did you do good? Casey, did you do good? Top crushed?
Speaker 2: I don't even know who Ivan Wrightman is. Honestly well
Speaker 2: up in the air right, Oh yeah, that's a son.
Speaker 3: That's Jason. Oh his son. Oh that's his son. Yeah,
Speaker 3: of course, Okay. I was like, I didn't make it up.
Speaker 3: I didn't come out of nowhere.
Speaker 2: I'm all right, should we get started with today's episode?
Speaker 2: Do we have more than we were gonna hold? Mynything?
Speaker 2: So there was like an annoying drunk woman. It was
Speaker 2: her birthday. I'm in the front row the cellar, and
Speaker 2: she was with her mom, so clearly her. You know,
Speaker 2: not that it's bad to hang out with your mom,
Speaker 2: but you're blackout drunk. Your mom's sitting there. I don't
Speaker 2: know what to do, but she was annoying everyone and
Speaker 2: I wasn't in the room, but I guess for before
Speaker 2: she got kicked out before the last comic, and she screamed,
Speaker 2: all these comics are insecure about my beauty.
Speaker 3: And then she left. That's so funny. I God, that's
Speaker 3: so funny. Wait.
Speaker 1: Also, I just want to say I tried to bring
Speaker 1: this up with you at another point of something else
Speaker 1: we were recording. But there are multiple Scott Peterson documentaries
Speaker 1: out right now and people are giving a lot of opinions.
Speaker 3: I saw one of them. I watched part of the
Speaker 3: Netflix one.
Speaker 1: I'm like, one episode left to go, but it made
Speaker 1: it solidified his guilt for me so hard. And then
Speaker 1: a comic that we both know came up to me
Speaker 1: at a show. She was doing my show, and she
Speaker 1: was like, she was like, Oh, have you been watching
Speaker 1: the Scott Peterson stuff. I've been dying to talk about it.
Speaker 1: And I was like, oh, yes. She goes, well, I
Speaker 1: think he's innocent, and I go, so does Leeza. I
Speaker 1: don't think he's innocent.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you don't anymore, You don't anymore. But I never
Speaker 3: thought he was innocent.
Speaker 2: I don't think the core of if you can't prove how,
Speaker 2: when and with what right, it's like how when?
Speaker 3: Where? Where? Where? When? How?
Speaker 1: This comic has done a lot of dives on it,
Speaker 1: and like has really And she's like, there is like
Speaker 1: a lot that makes it that it looks like he
Speaker 1: didn't do it, And I was like.
Speaker 2: Okay, So don't understand if someone is as stupid as
Speaker 2: him to tell the authorities where he was fishing and
Speaker 2: then that's where he gave the body, that's where he
Speaker 2: dropped the body. Why would you drop the body in
Speaker 2: the place where you are and you told people you
Speaker 2: will be there, but yet there's no other evidence, or
Speaker 2: maybe these documentaries have new evidence.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 2: I just think if you're dumb enough to do that,
Speaker 2: you're dumb enough to leave a thumb print somewhere. I
Speaker 2: just don't. I don't think he's innocent. I think the
Speaker 2: police did a really bad job. I think the prosecution
Speaker 2: did good. I mean, he got guilty, but like, you
Speaker 2: can't sentence someone to death if you can't even tell
Speaker 2: me how he merged.
Speaker 3: Yeah, one of the.
Speaker 1: Things she said was that, like someone in his business,
Speaker 1: do I know them?
Speaker 3: Yeah, you do.
Speaker 1: One of these people, one of the people in the
Speaker 1: case on his side, basically heard the cops saying, oh,
Speaker 1: the husband did this, like at the very beginning of
Speaker 1: the investigation. So there is a lot of There is
Speaker 1: a lot of evidence that possibly the police, like you know,
Speaker 1: like they do a lot of the times, had a
Speaker 1: narrative and just like found evidence to fit the narrative.
Speaker 3: The amber, shit's fucked up.
Speaker 2: He did not care she was dead, like he didn't
Speaker 2: want to be with her, like he was escaping to Mexico.
Speaker 3: Like I get it. Yeah, somebody goes.
Speaker 1: If you talk about somebody three weeks before they're dead,
Speaker 1: saying that they're dead and then they die, you probably.
Speaker 2: Have That's what I mean. Like, I think you did it,
Speaker 2: but it's like you need to prove it in court.
Speaker 2: That's why we have courts, Like that's the whole point.
Speaker 2: That's what I don't understand. Like, I just don't know
Speaker 2: how we're okay with it if we can't prove how
Speaker 2: he did it or with what or where?
Speaker 3: Why? Like what?
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I think he did it. So he's in
Speaker 1: jail and that's fine with me. Exactly. I do think
Speaker 1: he did it.
Speaker 2: I think like that was early on in our podcast,
Speaker 2: and like I will watch these other docs as well.
Speaker 1: No, but I was telling you because this girl had
Speaker 1: like this this that she had like a list, like,
Speaker 1: I mean, I think there are I don't think it's
Speaker 1: like absolutely crazy to think he's like because I think
Speaker 1: there's a lot of there's a lot of proof.
Speaker 2: Do you know this murder Wade Wilson. He has like
Speaker 2: crazy face tattoos.
Speaker 3: He is a murderer. But oh no, I've never seen
Speaker 3: this man and he's I guess.
Speaker 2: I saw somewhere online that he gets three thousand letters
Speaker 2: a week from women that want to fuck or marry him.
Speaker 3: Oh my god, And I get it. He is not.
Speaker 1: I mean you can tell without he is cute, without
Speaker 1: the fucking full face tattoos of stitches that are like
Speaker 1: around his mouth, like that's he's.
Speaker 3: No Richard Ramirez.
Speaker 2: I'll tell you that. No, Okay, we got to start.
Speaker 2: This is getting crazy.
Speaker 1: Let's get going. We've got a great episode for you
Speaker 1: guys today. Watch I start writing letters to Wade Wilson.
Speaker 2: Okay, we are doing an episode called Mama, which I
Speaker 2: don't know creeps me out.
Speaker 1: Like I I'm with you. I fucking hate the word
Speaker 1: mama as a mom. I hate it's so pervasive, like
Speaker 1: every mama, Hi, Mama's how you doing?
Speaker 3: Mama? Like I really only like it.
Speaker 1: I really only it only doesn't bother me when my
Speaker 1: kids call me that, And that's really kind of it.
Speaker 3: I really don't like it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was about to say I called my mom mama,
Speaker 2: but like not a random woman I just met, you know. Yeah,
Speaker 2: but it also reminds you of something creepy, like was
Speaker 2: there a horror movie where someone just keeps saying mama
Speaker 2: or something? Or am I just thinking of baby Mama?
Speaker 2: Or am I thinking of Ma the movie? Or am
Speaker 2: I thinking of Helen Keller? Like I don't know.
Speaker 1: No, I think there's a horror movie called Mama from
Speaker 1: twenty thirteen.
Speaker 2: Okay, So yes, okay, I knew I was scared for
Speaker 2: a reason. I was like, this gives me the he
Speaker 2: be Oh my god, that woman looks insane. Oh, Jessica chastaing, Yeah, shocking. Yeah,
Speaker 2: And it's presented by Ghia model Toro.
Speaker 3: But I don't know what that means.
Speaker 2: I guess it's like he just stamps, sure, yeah, he
Speaker 2: did a favor for friend.
Speaker 3: That's what that means. His friend went, listen, will you
Speaker 3: present my movie? Just present? Yeah? And then yeah he
Speaker 3: did it. Okay.
Speaker 2: Season nineteen, episode twenty two, we have a twenty eighteen vibe. Okay,
Speaker 2: so we have Benson. She's in glasses, they're pushed down
Speaker 2: to the middle of her nose. She's on the phone,
Speaker 2: and you know, we hear her go no, I wasn't aware.
Speaker 2: But she's not surprised, and then she goes, he certainly
Speaker 2: deserves it, long overdue. She thanks someone for telling her,
Speaker 2: and we still don't know what it is. She shakes
Speaker 2: her head in disbelief, but she just said she's not surprised, confused,
Speaker 2: but she calls Finn into the office. Rollin's increasy look worried.
Speaker 2: She asks him to close the door. Oh my god,
Speaker 2: and she's like, you weren't gonna tell me. She has
Speaker 2: to hear this from Dodd's disgusting. So she's like, I
Speaker 2: thought we were family here, and she's like very wistful.
Speaker 2: She starts talking about Finn she goes, oh, you give
Speaker 2: so much. She goes, he gives everything he has without hesitation,
Speaker 2: and I'm like, are we talking about the same guy here?
Speaker 3: I'm like, like.
Speaker 2: Maybe iced tea, But like Finn is trying not to
Speaker 2: work at all times, he hesitates, he hesitates.
Speaker 1: I'll say that he does get the job done, but
Speaker 1: he hesitates. He's like, oh, I gotta go do that
Speaker 1: all right before he jogs. He definitely does a big yeah.
Speaker 1: The only time he didn't hesitate was in the bodega
Speaker 1: with like the gun situation. I feel like that was
Speaker 1: a one.
Speaker 2: Time hero move, but usually yeah, trying to stay in
Speaker 2: the office. Sure, but she says, you know, I trust
Speaker 2: you so much, and I'm like, well, that's real, you
Speaker 2: know what I mean, Like, I do trust him. But
Speaker 2: she goes, and now you're a sergeant, so he's sergeant Tutuola.
Speaker 2: And he goes, Okay, I didn't want to make it
Speaker 2: a big thing. And you know that obviously reminds you
Speaker 2: of one stabler said, I heard I heard yours no
Speaker 2: big thang. So he didn't want to make a big
Speaker 2: deal about the promotion. And she is happy for him,
Speaker 2: but she wants to throw a party. He doesn't want
Speaker 2: to YadA YadA, And when she's like, I don't care,
Speaker 2: I'm doing a party, he makes like the face of
Speaker 2: a little content happy cat. And then we cut away
Speaker 2: from all this and it's someone talking about flowers and
Speaker 2: it is Stone. So it's Stone, his sister, Pam. You know,
Speaker 2: he's kind to her. She's doing quotes about flowers. They
Speaker 2: share a moment talking about their father, but he has
Speaker 2: to get her back to Bayview. So now we're at
Speaker 2: another location. I also don't know why the scene existed
Speaker 2: for any reason. His sister does not show up again here,
Speaker 2: Like I don't.
Speaker 3: I kind of do.
Speaker 1: I kind of think that they're doing it to like
Speaker 1: sort of like like just bring like some personal connection
Speaker 1: to like having to put your loved ones into like
Speaker 1: homes and like places where they're.
Speaker 3: Being taken care of. I kind of think that's why
Speaker 3: they do it.
Speaker 1: But you're right, like some follow up would be good,
Speaker 1: like maybe Stone being like yeah, I get it, you know, like,
Speaker 1: but I don't think that ever happens.
Speaker 2: And it's just like, you know, how much work it
Speaker 2: took to shoot this one. I know they're like okay,
Speaker 2: but we're at a different location. We're not in baby.
Speaker 2: We're at Ascano Gardens and it is an old folks
Speaker 2: home and it's in the sky, okay, an amazing view.
Speaker 2: And a crooner type of man is singing to the elderly.
Speaker 2: He's in a suit. They're loving it, especially Fanula. How
Speaker 2: do you say her name?
Speaker 3: Fanlula?
Speaker 2: Fanula? I was right, Okay, so Fanula Flanagan and no, Google,
Speaker 2: I don't mean Fibula, you dumb bitch.
Speaker 1: So I had a babysitter named Fanula, That's how I know.
Speaker 2: And she's a legend, no stranger to SBU. She was
Speaker 2: in the season five episode called Escape. She's from Dublin.
Speaker 2: She's been working since the fucking sixties.
Speaker 3: Okay.
Speaker 2: She gets offered a Marzapan cookie by a worker and
Speaker 2: who's being very nice, chill, but this freaks her out.
Speaker 2: She's taken away screaming. She starts breathing heavily, wildly, but
Speaker 2: then she stops and again and the singer and she's clapping.
Speaker 2: She's back in. She knows the words to the song.
Speaker 2: He kneels down next to her. She's giggling and she
Speaker 2: wants to fuck this dude. And she's now walking post
Speaker 2: show singing, and the same cookie woman gives her meds.
Speaker 2: So I guess the nurse does cookies and meds, and
Speaker 2: so you think there would be a couple employees. But
Speaker 2: the girl, the woman Fanula, she's a grown ass woman.
Speaker 2: She says, oh, I already took my pills, and the
Speaker 2: nurse goes, no, that was yesterday and today's Friday.
Speaker 3: And she's like, whoa are you? Surely I don't know
Speaker 3: what day is it.
Speaker 2: And then she talks about Marzapan cookies again, and then
Speaker 2: she gets serious and says I was raped, and then
Speaker 2: she downs her pills and she looks, you know, I
Speaker 2: wouldn't say deranged, but there's a daze. Yeah a day,
Speaker 2: something's going on. And we get to the credits. Now,
Speaker 2: how do you feel about Marzapan cookies? I think they're weird, right,
Speaker 2: I don't think I've ever had one. They're weird, It's true,
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm sure. Or is it like the pink
Speaker 2: cream that I do love in a box of chocolates?
Speaker 2: Like I looked at photos of Marzapan and I'm like,
Speaker 2: I don't think I like it.
Speaker 3: I know, I'm like, what's a Marzapan cookie taste? It
Speaker 3: look like fruits. It also doesn't look like a casual cookie.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, it's like olmend y. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I
Speaker 1: don't think that's for me.
Speaker 3: No, I don't either.
Speaker 1: Something on the internet says what is Marzapan called an America?
Speaker 1: And it says Olmond candy dough. I'm like, no, I
Speaker 1: think we're just calling out Marzapan.
Speaker 3: Sorry, Google.
Speaker 2: So classic beginning of an SVU post credits a walk
Speaker 2: and talk, and this time it's with Rollins and creasy
Speaker 2: and a man from the home. He talks about you know, Fanula.
Speaker 2: And her name is Madeline Thomas. She's eighty two and
Speaker 2: she has mid stage Alzheimer's. Now, the way I spilled
Speaker 2: Alzheimer's on Google, you'd think I have Alzheimer's.
Speaker 1: Do you want to talk about it? There's an X
Speaker 1: in it. I'll just tell people.
Speaker 3: There's an X. There's an X in Alzheimer.
Speaker 2: Google just didn't have a suggestion, and I was like, whatever,
Speaker 2: I know what it is. I bring out Moving on.
Speaker 2: So she likes to blend fiction, not likes, but she's
Speaker 2: doing it. She blends fiction and reality, like she watched
Speaker 2: a show with a ghost and then she was convinced
Speaker 2: that she had a ghost, but he would rather be
Speaker 2: safe than sorry and not assume that the rape isn't real.
Speaker 2: So we have a good guy so that he did
Speaker 2: the right thing. And so the answer Mattie's room. She's
Speaker 2: with her daughter, who we certainly recognize from the episode Bombshell,
Speaker 2: So if you ever went to any of our live shows,
Speaker 2: we talk about her extensively for that episode. And she's
Speaker 2: also Kyle McLaughlin's pilled up wife in conscience, so that
Speaker 2: is her SVUW fame.
Speaker 3: And she's here again.
Speaker 2: And what are they chatting about before the detectives walk in, Yes,
Speaker 2: you Guessedd, it is Marzapan cookies. If you want to
Speaker 2: do a drinking game, I would drink every time we
Speaker 2: talk about these cookies.
Speaker 3: So when they.
Speaker 2: Tell her her that a nurse said that she was raped,
Speaker 2: she's shocked. She's like, wait what, And the daughters, you know,
Speaker 2: is encouraging her to talk about what's going on, and
Speaker 2: she goes, oh, Frankie, he came to my party. So
Speaker 2: we find out those crooners a Frank Sinatra impersonator. She
Speaker 2: sings a little bit and then the daughter's like, tell
Speaker 2: them what you told me that he came into your
Speaker 2: room and pushed your shoulders down. She gets triggered, and
Speaker 2: Mattie's like, oh god, it was horrible, horrible he held
Speaker 2: my shoulders down. I pushed against it, but he was
Speaker 2: so strong, and tense music begins. So they're going to
Speaker 2: take her to the doctor for an exam to get
Speaker 2: some evidence, and Creasy asks the bearded man from the
Speaker 2: Walk and Talk for a list of everyone that works there,
Speaker 2: and then asks for like visitors that come in and out,
Speaker 2: patient's family, everything, and this dude is down and even
Speaker 2: you know, adds on top. He'll throw in the security
Speaker 2: cam footage for free.
Speaker 3: So his medical.
Speaker 2: Opinion is that it's all in her head, and Chrisy
Speaker 2: goes okay, but we're still going to investigate. Rollin's and
Speaker 2: the daughter, Christina are in the waiting room of the
Speaker 2: hospital and Christine is spiraling, oh god, I should have
Speaker 2: caught the sooner. I shouldn't have put her in a facility.
Speaker 2: It is the best facility, and Rollins is like, do
Speaker 2: not worry. You are a good daughter. Don't question it.
Speaker 2: We find out, well, she uses the word shoved her
Speaker 2: mom in. But then you find out it's eighteen thousand
Speaker 2: dollars a month. Yeah, I think you gently placed her
Speaker 2: into a place that's not expensive, she says, shoved her
Speaker 2: mom and an eighteen thousand dollars a month garbage heap.
Speaker 2: I go, the view is like of the whole city
Speaker 2: at a Frank Sinatra impersonator. I think that's high level.
Speaker 2: It looks so nice in there. Eighteen grand a month?
Speaker 2: What is that a year? I don't do math, but
Speaker 2: definitely over one hundred maybe one hundred fifty thousand dollars.
Speaker 1: No, no, it's don't get closer to two hundred.
Speaker 2: Right math? Right, well you're doing math, Yeah, two hundred
Speaker 2: and sixteen thousand dollars a year. She called it a
Speaker 2: garbage heap. So do they come from big wealth?
Speaker 3: Like? What the fuck is going on here? Did she marry?
Speaker 2: Well? They look like because usually when you see a
Speaker 2: rich person on SVU, there's tail, you know, there's a pearl's,
Speaker 2: there's a rich way to speak, like, there's just something
Speaker 2: and I love her bag, yeah, and here I don't
Speaker 2: see it. But also, this isn't a lot of money
Speaker 2: for her garbage. It's a garbageep. But Ronin's like, well,
Speaker 2: you don't even know how to handle someone with dementia.
Speaker 2: She's crying. I could have hired someone, And you're right.
Speaker 2: I mean you could pay a nurse to full time
Speaker 2: be in your house for two hundred and sixteen thousand dollars.
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, for half A nurse.
Speaker 2: Can live in your home and be a full time
Speaker 2: caretaker for that money.
Speaker 3: So you're right.
Speaker 2: You are a bad, dumb bitch and you should have
Speaker 2: let or your mom know. I it's nice to be
Speaker 2: social with other people your age, I'm sure. But she
Speaker 2: has a good daughter, I don't know whatever. So she's
Speaker 2: just just crying.
Speaker 3: She's just upset.
Speaker 2: Her mom got to tell, you know, like it's normal.
Speaker 2: So Rollin's again. Rollin's also is like, bitch, stop making
Speaker 2: this about you. Benson walks in trench coat in the air.
Speaker 2: She looks majestic and the doctor. You know, because we
Speaker 2: love Suu. Obviously a lot of people listen to this podcast.
Speaker 2: We all love Marishka. We've seen the stories, but like
Speaker 2: seeing Marishka at the Olympics was such a cool like
Speaker 2: you just see how much she means to everyone.
Speaker 1: Yeah, like those girls are young and they're like, oh
Speaker 1: my god, you know, yeah, talking about the Olympians, the girls,
Speaker 1: the chast six girls that got to see her and
Speaker 1: were like gagged, but everyone being.
Speaker 3: Like she's there to get the rapist. Volleyball player. Yes,
Speaker 3: every yeah, another rapist.
Speaker 2: Out and about, but like and I mean Taylor loves her,
Speaker 2: Like we know everyone loves her, but I just love
Speaker 2: seeing it in action, just her getting her flowers. The
Speaker 2: doctor comes out and she's like, she's confused, She's not raped.
Speaker 2: Christine of course exclaims, thank god. Christine runs to her mom.
Speaker 2: The doc is talking to our girls, and she has
Speaker 2: no physical evidence to suggest that she was raped. No
Speaker 2: shoulder or thigh bruises, no semen trauma like vaginal trauma.
Speaker 2: Obviously mental trauma. The detectives go to see the victim
Speaker 2: and the daughter. Benson speaks to Maddie and she likes
Speaker 2: the name Olivia, and she asks her did he rape
Speaker 2: you too? And again into these martyrs of pan cookies.
Speaker 2: She's acting very childlike. So this is gonna be a
Speaker 2: tough case. So you know, we're guessing maybe the Frank
Speaker 2: Sinatra singer. So he's at the precinct and he is
Speaker 2: not as charming as he thinks he is towards Rollins.
Speaker 2: He's trying to like joke with her and being like, yeah,
Speaker 2: I'll take a jack on the rocks.
Speaker 3: And then he's like, I also don't.
Speaker 2: I don't get why a hottie like us in a
Speaker 2: joint like this, And she's like trying to get you
Speaker 2: to answer a question. So he says he saw, he
Speaker 2: sang some songs, he had a tuna on Rye and
Speaker 2: then when she's like and he goes, that is sick.
Speaker 2: These are my people. If I did anything like that,
Speaker 2: I couldn't pay my rent. And I do love the
Speaker 2: logical defense for right, like where it's like why would
Speaker 2: I do this?
Speaker 3: I have a great job, and it's like why anyone rapes? Yeah?
Speaker 2: Really yeah, they give up a lot, they go, they're
Speaker 2: free to Like I like that. It's like I wouldn't.
Speaker 2: I wouldn't fuck with my job, and it's like most
Speaker 2: people do. I am very confused. So Cariesie interrupts and
Speaker 2: cuts him loose, so no tape or physical evidence.
Speaker 3: Finn walks in.
Speaker 2: They give him some jokes about leaving and how secretive
Speaker 2: he's being, and it's really hard to do these episodes
Speaker 2: and take any of these side plots seriously because we
Speaker 2: know Finn doesn't go anywhere like you know what.
Speaker 3: I mean, And I'm sorry.
Speaker 2: Even if you are someone that doesn't watch and are listening,
Speaker 2: you clearly know Finn is still on the show. So
Speaker 2: we have to pretend he's leaving departments for his big
Speaker 2: Sergeant's moment and he doesn't want to party, but everyone
Speaker 2: wants a party, and Rollins goes, Babe, you're getting promoted,
Speaker 2: not arrested. So Christine runs in. She needs to speak
Speaker 2: to Rollins at once and did you did you? Did
Speaker 2: you get any Goldiehn from death becomes her when I
Speaker 2: just said that in terms of tone at once, yeah,
Speaker 2: a little bit, thank you you. So she needs to yeah,
Speaker 2: she used to speak Rowlins at once. She goes, my
Speaker 2: mom started shaking crying. When she got back to her room,
Speaker 2: they had to sedate her. She kept waking up and sweating, screaming,
Speaker 2: please stop, I really think something happened to her. Rollins
Speaker 2: rubs her shoulder and now we're back at the elderly
Speaker 2: care building in the skies of Manhattan, Mom, daughter and Rollins,
Speaker 2: and she's going in and out of reality memories, present time.
Speaker 2: She's breathing, going wild, and then a cafe roma memory
Speaker 2: pops up and we find out that she owned a
Speaker 2: bakery and she did all the baking herself. She grabs
Speaker 2: a knife at Rollin's the okay, I should have I
Speaker 2: don't know. It's like you use punctuation when I speak.
Speaker 2: I don't know what she baked by herself. She grabbed
Speaker 2: a knife and put it on Rollins, but she says,
Speaker 2: get off of me. She's breathing deep again in fear.
Speaker 2: Rollin's asked about the cookies. She screams, leave me alone,
Speaker 2: pulling further away from Rollins, and she gets up. The
Speaker 2: knife's still out and she's crying and she goes, no, Max, No,
Speaker 2: I said no. The nurse grabs her and you know,
Speaker 2: brings her to her room. Christine's like, oh my god,
Speaker 2: like she's never like this. Something definitely happened. Rollins goes, yeah,
Speaker 2: but I don't think yesterday, Like we got to find
Speaker 2: out what happened in the past. So she sold her
Speaker 2: bakery five years ago. But let's see if you know
Speaker 2: Max's connections to the bakery. We're at the bakery. It's
Speaker 2: a cute father's son or running the bakery, and the
Speaker 2: sun is hot. But the dad is like, I think
Speaker 2: it's sad. Maggie has Alzheimer's. And we find out that
Speaker 2: the dad actually started working as a teen as an
Speaker 2: apprentice at the bakery under Maddie. So that's so fucking cute.
Speaker 2: For years, it's so cute, and for years it was
Speaker 2: just the two of them. And he's trying to recall
Speaker 2: a Max and he just can't, and they're walking out
Speaker 2: and he goes, well, maybe a Maxwell.
Speaker 3: Are you a fucking idiot?
Speaker 2: I know, Wait, you're not talking about Maxwell? Are you
Speaker 2: so fucking crazy? So so, anyways, we find out it's
Speaker 2: Professor Leonard Maxwell. He came every day after his classes
Speaker 2: and he would read a book with a cappuccino and
Speaker 2: a cookie for hours. And yep, you guessed it. It's
Speaker 2: a Marzapan cookie.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, you're you're all wasted by now if
Speaker 1: you are playing the Marzapan drinking game, because it's insane
Speaker 1: how much they talk about it.
Speaker 2: They're talking about Marzapan cookie is like everyone orders it
Speaker 2: and they're so common that they're going to be all
Speaker 2: over the place, Like I truly, I just it's unbelievable
Speaker 2: to me.
Speaker 3: If you're a Marzapan person, please hit us up.
Speaker 2: Because I am shocked, Like, is anyone going to Trader
Speaker 2: Joe's and buying Marzapan cookies? Are you going to a
Speaker 2: bakery on a Saturday going Yes, they have Marzapan Like,
Speaker 2: I need to know what is happening here.
Speaker 1: I also do think it sounds kind of like not
Speaker 1: to be ageis just like an older person cookie, like
Speaker 1: maybe a cookie that was a big deal, like for
Speaker 1: another generation. They're definitely not out and about my family functions.
Speaker 2: I know, but I so are a butterscotch But I
Speaker 2: see butterscotch around Yah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, a Werther's. I fucking love a Werthers.
Speaker 2: By the way, Oh my god, remember our friend was
Speaker 2: obsessed with those butter scotch Boudinos at that restaurant or
Speaker 2: was it you?
Speaker 3: Are you the friend?
Speaker 1: Well, no, it is our friend, but I brought them
Speaker 1: to her house for her birthday this year. But also
Speaker 1: it is one of the only desserts Jared and I
Speaker 1: like to share because we're not dessert fronds.
Speaker 3: Jared and I are dessert enemies.
Speaker 1: We like completely different desserts, except Boudinos is where our
Speaker 1: ven diagram matches up.
Speaker 3: Oh but to the sun.
Speaker 2: We're back at the bakery but one day he just
Speaker 2: stopped coming in, so uh oh was at the rape day.
Speaker 2: So we find him reading a magazine on a bench
Speaker 2: on the water. It's a romantic chili sunny day in
Speaker 2: New York City and they ask him about Madeline Thomas.
Speaker 2: And this man is named hel Lindon, who is most
Speaker 2: recently in Hack.
Speaker 3: So that's exciting.
Speaker 2: He's out there, he's working and he came out on
Speaker 2: the scene in one hundred and seventy one episodes of
Speaker 2: Barney Miller, so that's like his big claim to fame.
Speaker 2: He's stunned to even hear the name. He's stammering, he
Speaker 2: hasn't heard that name in years. Did something happen to her?
Speaker 2: They reveal the rape, his jaws on the floor. He's
Speaker 2: so upset. So we're at the cement room bars. He
Speaker 2: said he was teaching engineering at Hudson Dundune. He's in
Speaker 2: a striped shirt, the little Cardigan Grandpa vibes. His office
Speaker 2: was close to the Cafe Roma, so he had grade
Speaker 2: papers there. He was usually shy, but around Maddie he
Speaker 2: was like a better person with her and funny, outgoing,
Speaker 2: charming and Rollin's always flirting. Is like well, you seem
Speaker 2: pretty charming to me. Now he's like, well, I have
Speaker 2: a grandson. If you want to fuck him, you seem
Speaker 2: like a fucking horny bitch. Then he said he loved Maddie,
Speaker 2: but that was way before he was even married. But
Speaker 2: he never loved his wife the way he loved Maddie.
Speaker 2: So that sucks for his wife. And they asked if
Speaker 2: she felt the same way. He goes, no, she was
Speaker 2: married to Howard and had baby Christine. It did break
Speaker 2: his heart, and so they asked, why did you stop
Speaker 2: going to the bakery. He doesn't want to talk about it.
Speaker 2: Rollins goes, you're a goin to have to. So February thirteenth,
Speaker 2: nineteen sixty six, day before he remembers it.
Speaker 3: Well, I mean that was fifty years ago.
Speaker 2: And he's like, so it was February thirteenth, Well, because
Speaker 2: it was before Valentine's Day, Okay, like kind of the
Speaker 2: year is. But you know, but I always think about
Speaker 2: like Bowen and Matt when I listen to their podcast,
Speaker 2: they just know, like the year's songs came out, the
Speaker 2: years something happened.
Speaker 3: They like correlate things. I don't.
Speaker 2: It's like, oh, I was in this grade, or I
Speaker 2: at this time, or I was younger, Like I'm not
Speaker 2: really into years like this.
Speaker 3: So maybe you know he's an engineering guy. He's a
Speaker 3: numbers guy.
Speaker 2: So Mattie was working late getting ready for Cupid's Day,
Speaker 2: as she calls it.
Speaker 3: He had an evening seminar, so they were there late.
Speaker 2: They had a cappuccino together and Rollins goes, and you've
Speaker 2: raped her. He smiles and goes, no, we made love
Speaker 2: in the kitchen. But Mattie felt so guilty and said
Speaker 2: they should never see each other again. And he's a
Speaker 2: real respectful king, and he never saw her again. Rollins
Speaker 2: asks to get him a water coffee and he just
Speaker 2: wants to sittle a minute. He takes off his glasses,
Speaker 2: hands in his head and like kind of just sits.
Speaker 2: Rollins walks to the crew and she's annoyed. She goes, ugh,
Speaker 2: Jesse has Teddy Bears more threatening than him, so they
Speaker 2: believe it's a softy because they don't always leave people,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean. So this is kind of wild.
Speaker 2: Benson's like, sure, we don't know what he was like
Speaker 2: fifty years ago. Rollins is like, damn, I would marry him.
Speaker 2: Benson says, let's see what happens when she sees him.
Speaker 2: So we do a lineup time the older men file in.
Speaker 2: His grandson's acting as his lawyer, and he's pissed, you know,
Speaker 2: he's like, my dad's eighty three and he's stressed out.
Speaker 2: And she says by the Harley, he goes, that's my
Speaker 2: other brother, and it's like, obviously for a detective, you're
Speaker 2: a fucking idiot.
Speaker 3: Well I think I missed an element.
Speaker 2: But the guy goes, ah, you know, my grandson he's
Speaker 2: has to get it together to date you, Like, he's
Speaker 2: a mess. So it's like, clearly not this man in
Speaker 2: a tie. That's like, here's to defend his grandfather. So
Speaker 2: the other one's a loser, okay. So they bring in
Speaker 2: Maddie and that's the one he wanted to say. They
Speaker 2: bring Maddie in with Christine. She's out of it, she's loopy,
Speaker 2: she doesn't understand anything, but she does then see Max
Speaker 2: a little bit, but she goes, they're so old, and
Speaker 2: she's grossed out by all of them. Benson goes, imagine
Speaker 2: them younger, and the lawyer goes, fuck this fuck what
Speaker 2: is this kabuki? And it's like what a Japanese style
Speaker 2: of theater, Like, I don't get it, face picking, I
Speaker 2: was in a show, I know the references, thank you.
Speaker 3: Very much, and yeah, I don't get it.
Speaker 2: But Maddie looks and focuses with sadness in her eyes,
Speaker 2: and she's just sad. Christine's distressed and the lawyer has
Speaker 2: to go nothing ready, so we're about to have one
Speaker 2: of her favorites a crossover in the precinct. So they
Speaker 2: meet in the middle and he yells out for Maddie
Speaker 2: and introduces himself as Leonard, but she doesn't know or
Speaker 2: remember him, and it's like, someone tell him she has
Speaker 2: Alice Hollimer's. He's heartbroken, so Rollin's and Finn have some
Speaker 2: banter about him moving again. He doesn't want her help, though,
Speaker 2: because he's seen her organization skills, and she's like, well,
Speaker 2: my apartment's not always like that, Jesus, and I want
Speaker 2: to know more about her apartment and why he was
Speaker 2: there and why it was so messy and everything, because
Speaker 2: we've seen her apartment it's never a mess. But he
Speaker 2: trapped light and throws a pen in his box and
Speaker 2: that's that. So he did not decorate his little cubicle
Speaker 2: Careesy wants to get back to work and uh oh,
Speaker 2: there is another rape in a convalescent home. Finn says,
Speaker 2: weirdos so, but it's not the same place. It's a
Speaker 2: state facility downtown and Finn looks longingly at them as
Speaker 2: they run off, like he wants to help solve the rape.
Speaker 2: So we're on the scene. It's a walk and talk.
Speaker 2: The doc is breaking it down. It happened last night,
Speaker 2: but they were told about it this morning. This woman
Speaker 2: is eighties, she's had a mess for the last ten years.
Speaker 2: Rollin's and Creasy meet Patrese Connolly and it's clearly a
Speaker 2: state facility, Like it's so much sadder looking. It's she's
Speaker 2: looking at a bridge and a train. It's I think
Speaker 2: they did this on purpose to kind of show like
Speaker 2: the different lives that the elderly have towards the end
Speaker 2: of their life. And I'm really sad for her. This
Speaker 2: is like a really devastating scene.
Speaker 3: So she talks.
Speaker 2: She was in her chair, she likes to look outside,
Speaker 2: and it's like, oh my god, like you're living like
Speaker 2: a cat, you know. He picked her up and put
Speaker 2: her on the bed and said he wanted to massage
Speaker 2: her feet, and she did feel grateful for that. But
Speaker 2: then he said that he loved her and he wanted
Speaker 2: her to love him back, and she became a little
Speaker 2: petrified and she's like, I can't love you the way
Speaker 2: you want me to.
Speaker 3: He did get mad.
Speaker 2: He told her to be quiet and she would like
Speaker 2: it and love him, and then he fucking rubbed coconut
Speaker 2: oil on the back of her legs undressed her and
Speaker 2: got on top and like raped her. She's crying and
Speaker 2: he kept repeating I love you, and he wanted her
Speaker 2: to say it back, but she did not want to
Speaker 2: say it, and Rollin says, she's so sorry it happened.
Speaker 2: She's safe now and she's just crying, and like you know,
Speaker 2: she goes, it'll never be okay. She married Ben at eighteen.
Speaker 2: There's never been another man. She then feels bad. She
Speaker 2: didn't fight or scream and she's just crying. And the actress,
Speaker 2: by the way, is Rutanya I'll Rutanya Alda and she's
Speaker 2: from Latvia and she's a star, Like this is an
Speaker 2: insane scene. But also she was in Deer Hunter, Mommy Dearest,
Speaker 2: Hello Dolly, The Panic and Needle Park and an episode
Speaker 2: of Tales from the Crypt So that's exciting, but over
Speaker 2: one hundred more credits like Mike, yeah, a real like legend,
Speaker 2: and Rollin says, you survived. You survived. That's what's important.
Speaker 2: And it is and I think that's why we talk
Speaker 2: about this a lot. But like the discussion of like
Speaker 2: why didn't you say anything, Why didn't you do that,
Speaker 2: Why did you do why didn't you escape? And it's
Speaker 2: like it's to have those discussions. It makes victims even
Speaker 2: more shameful and feel even more guilty for not doing
Speaker 2: the quote unquote right thing, you know.
Speaker 3: And yeah, it's just sad, it's fucking sad.
Speaker 1: But she at least truly surviving is like the only objective,
Speaker 1: not like getting DNA. I mean, hey, if you could
Speaker 1: do that, bonus points, but it's not. You know, we
Speaker 1: do love when somebody gets a good scratch or a
Speaker 1: piece of hair, but that's not the objective.
Speaker 2: Surviving is no. And but what is good about all this?
Speaker 2: She knows who this is. His name is Dan. He's
Speaker 2: new there, so it's Daniel Hammerson three three one Jane
Speaker 2: Street in the village.
Speaker 3: He was only there for two weeks.
Speaker 2: He's a tempt So they're going to take Patrice to
Speaker 2: the hospital for an exam, and on the way out,
Speaker 2: though of the like convalescent home, rollins goes no one
Speaker 2: has even visited her and it just discussed them and
Speaker 2: it's just like a really sad thing to think about.
Speaker 2: But also, you did clock that Jane Street is a
Speaker 2: really nice street for a nurse's aid.
Speaker 1: I mean, I was like, oh, he lives on Jane Street. Interesting,
Speaker 1: let's go see where. Let's go check it out. It's
Speaker 1: like a really nice street. That is a really nice street.
Speaker 2: I just feel really bad for Patrece, like she's such
Speaker 2: a good actress.
Speaker 1: It really was heartbreaking, so heartbreaking. It's so tip difficult,
Speaker 1: like the whole thing.
Speaker 2: It stresses me out, like taking care of our parents
Speaker 2: as they get older and like.
Speaker 1: You know, there's just no good options. It feels like
Speaker 1: not to get on my child free soapbox.
Speaker 2: But you know, it's like when people are like, who's
Speaker 2: going to take care of you when you're old, It's like.
Speaker 3: Half the time it's not your kids.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like you may it's people suck, Like I don't know,
Speaker 2: it's that can't be your plan.
Speaker 3: I know we all want these great kids.
Speaker 2: But then I also my friend posted this, but you
Speaker 2: know with jd Vance and all this stuff about like parents, parents' parents,
Speaker 2: and she looks up like numbers and the number one
Speaker 2: group of people that abuses children is drum roll parents.
Speaker 2: Seventy six percent of crimes committed against children are their parents.
Speaker 2: So this idea of like that the childless people of
Speaker 2: our country are like in for the demise and don't
Speaker 2: care about the future or don't have a stake in
Speaker 2: children is like so demented when you think about the
Speaker 2: abuse that's perpetrated by parents.
Speaker 1: But they'd like to like they'd like to people would
Speaker 1: like like Jdvance would like to focus on the boogeymen
Speaker 1: that are out there, you know, hurting kids and stuff,
Speaker 1: and not the fact that where it actually comes from.
Speaker 2: So when they visit this Jane Street apartment, this is
Speaker 2: probably one of my favorite scenes of SPU history.
Speaker 3: I am obsessed.
Speaker 2: So there's a we're at a sass the older woman's
Speaker 2: house looking for Dan and she's like, oh, you want
Speaker 2: to see my husband, and she leads them to an
Speaker 2: urn and she goes, he's dead. You can ask him
Speaker 2: anything you want, Like I just fow. But he was
Speaker 2: in a facility in Hell's kitchen. So now Rollins is
Speaker 2: filling Olivia in on what's up, and so we figure
Speaker 2: out this guy just moves from place to place. He's
Speaker 2: worked at all the places that have been mentioned. He's
Speaker 2: been a nurse, an orderly, a chef, and a rapist.
Speaker 2: And he's using the identity of this dead guy. Yes, yes, yes, yes, sorry, no,
Speaker 2: that's okay. And he worked in the kitchen in Wisconsin Gardens. Hello,
Speaker 2: the cookies. The smell might have taken her back and
Speaker 2: she conflated all of this stuff. So we have to
Speaker 2: go to these facilities, ask questions and get some scoops.
Speaker 2: It's montage time. But it's hard with the tempts because
Speaker 2: they're in and out and all they say is like,
Speaker 2: he whistled a lot, he hummed, and that's that. Someone
Speaker 2: else said he was friendly, polite, and Rollin's and creasy,
Speaker 2: like didn't get anything from these facilities. So now they're
Speaker 2: finally at Wisconso Gardens and they're talking to chat.
Speaker 1: Well, so it is as Sconso Gardens, but it does
Speaker 1: sound like Disconso Gardens, which is a place in la
Speaker 1: that I take my children to all the time, they
Speaker 1: just drop the d it's as sconceo.
Speaker 2: Maybe, yeah, have you gone this summer? Do you mostly
Speaker 2: go in the fall winter? I let the membership lapse,
Speaker 2: but we're planning.
Speaker 1: I'm planning with our friends to go to Carved, the
Speaker 1: pumpkin carving thing that they do.
Speaker 2: Well, you'll probably go to Christmas too, Yeah, yeah, but
Speaker 2: I love my membership laps because it's just hot as
Speaker 2: hell and we just go swimming instead.
Speaker 3: So yeah, we're at we're at the gardens.
Speaker 2: We're talking to the chef and he's wearing a big
Speaker 2: giant chef hat, like so big. He looks like the
Speaker 2: Little Mermaid chef, like comical, like he could be in
Speaker 2: the Ratitude kitchen. But Dan didn't cook. He delivered the food,
Speaker 2: so obviously a nightmare. And he delivered a snack before
Speaker 2: big time, a bedtime big time.
Speaker 3: He's a snack before bedtime. He delivered not a.
Speaker 2: Big talker, but whistling, humming old show tunes, old timey stuff.
Speaker 3: He goes, you know, not Hamilton's.
Speaker 2: He then name drops and says he loved Trudy Morris's songs,
Speaker 2: and he said that he knew her so we would
Speaker 2: always talk about this woman Trudy Morris and how he's
Speaker 2: a big fan. So we go to this house of
Speaker 2: this woman old starlet and the actresses. An Archer another
Speaker 2: legend nominated for an Oscar Golden Globe and BAFTA for
Speaker 2: being Michael Douglas's wife in Fatal Attraction.
Speaker 1: So I've never seen that, did you. I've never seen
Speaker 1: Fatal Attraction? But some bad news about An Archer? What scientologist? Oh, okay,
Speaker 1: that's for our show. That's like the thing you can be.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 1: Nothing, nothing, nothing too svwish, but scient a long time
Speaker 1: long time scientologists.
Speaker 2: So she's a scientologist. So you knew about her before, right?
Speaker 2: I knew who Ann Archer was and I was like,
Speaker 2: what is There's something about her? And then I just
Speaker 2: watching this episode, I gave her a quick Google and
Speaker 2: remember that. Yeah, she's like long time person in the
Speaker 2: scientology world. Sam and her recent credits. She was just
Speaker 2: in the dropout with Amanda Seifree and she played Sam
Speaker 2: Waterson's wife in it.
Speaker 3: So that's pretty cool. Oh did I tell you? I
Speaker 3: watched Cereal Mom for the first time. Ah, I loved it.
Speaker 3: I think I did tell you? Did I not tell you.
Speaker 2: It feels like you didn't tell me Pussy Willow's Dottie.
Speaker 2: I'm obsessed. I gotta watch it again because I really
Speaker 2: really liked it. But Sam Waterson being in a movie
Speaker 2: was like really shocking to me too.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2: And uh friend of the pod Matthew Lillard, Matthew Lillard
Speaker 2: who just hung out with him at gen Con this
Speaker 2: past weekend. Oh my god, here's the sun. Yeah that
Speaker 2: was a cool day. I mean, we have the best,
Speaker 2: the best podcast ever, Like it's so fun. Okay, So
Speaker 2: but this woman, oh classic, she's holding a really fluffy
Speaker 2: white dog and she's like, I don't have time. I'm busy,
Speaker 2: and it's like, there's no way you're busy, bitch, There's
Speaker 2: no way. And she was just because she goes, I
Speaker 2: was just about to have a glass of pino.
Speaker 3: So not that not that busy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you've interrupted me in the middle of my pino.
Speaker 2: It's really not a good time. That's merch. You've interrupted
Speaker 2: me in the middle of my pino. Let me know
Speaker 2: if you guys want me to make friendship bracelest for
Speaker 2: the community. So they asked this rich lady about you know,
Speaker 2: oh do you know this guy. He says he's your
Speaker 2: friend and she laughs and she's like, Aha, that's not
Speaker 2: my friend, that's my son, Henry.
Speaker 3: Oh.
Speaker 2: And they show her a photo of the man and
Speaker 2: she like hates the photo. She goes, unfortunate, you caught
Speaker 2: his bad side. And she has a lot of photos
Speaker 2: of her self framed everywhere, like no one else just
Speaker 2: frame pictures of her. But the place is sick, dude,
Speaker 2: like chandelier, gold everywhere, a piano, it's giant. And she's
Speaker 2: talking about her career and doing Shakespeare in the park
Speaker 2: and they're like, okay, we actually are busy, so we
Speaker 2: need to speak to Henry. A maid brings a wine
Speaker 2: a wine tray to her and runs off, and she
Speaker 2: keeps trying to offer them booze and they keeping like,
Speaker 2: we are working. I know you don't know what that means,
Speaker 2: but we are working, and she doesn't understand why that
Speaker 2: would stop them, though, she's like, who cares?
Speaker 3: Have a drink?
Speaker 2: The door opens and like everyone said, he is whistling
Speaker 2: and he just came back from a dry cleaning run
Speaker 2: and lets her know the green dress won't be ready today,
Speaker 2: and she scoffs, like I need it today and she says, ugh,
Speaker 2: he's just like his father, and he says, well, you
Speaker 2: don't have any plans for today unless there's something you're
Speaker 2: not keep telling me. So they're creepy, but he is
Speaker 2: super nice to company and they arrest him. They're like, okay,
Speaker 2: you're arrested. He yelps, and the mom yells, oh my god,
Speaker 2: this is ridiculous. Arrest him for what? And Rollin's angrily
Speaker 2: goes plenty and Chreasey's walking him out and the mom
Speaker 2: purses her lips, And whenever I think of pursed lips,
Speaker 2: I obviously think of Miranda Priestley. And the dog is
Speaker 2: still so fucking cute, and he's pretty like chill and
Speaker 2: calm walking into cement room bars. He doesn't seem worried
Speaker 2: about anything, and he comfortably takes off his jacket. He
Speaker 2: puts it on the back of the chair, and his
Speaker 2: excuse for having so many jobs is that he's restless.
Speaker 2: And I did spell that wrong as well, Okay, I
Speaker 2: did at a w an invisible uh an invisible Rollins,
Speaker 2: I think, Rollin says, and invisible and he's like, excuse me, yeah, okay, yeah,
Speaker 2: Rollins was not a ghost.
Speaker 3: She goes, yeah, you're invisible.
Speaker 2: He goes, excuse me, and they're like, well, you had
Speaker 2: fake names, and she goes, you know, you used one
Speaker 2: of your dead patients' names. And he's like, oh, that's
Speaker 2: because of my mother's career, and Ronin's like, she's retten.
Speaker 2: He goes, you clearly don't understand the effect celebrity has
Speaker 2: on regular people.
Speaker 3: And he used his real name.
Speaker 2: It's NonStop questions about my mom and they're like, uh,
Speaker 2: don't you use your dad's name. He goes, there's something
Speaker 2: called Google. You should try it. Careesy sass is m
Speaker 2: right back and goes, yeah, people are googling you, and
Speaker 2: Caresee goes, oh no, or maybe it's because you like
Speaker 2: to rape old ladies and he says that's a lie,
Speaker 2: and Robin slowly walks towards him and says, hmm, strange.
Speaker 2: Most people when they hear that would say that's sick
Speaker 2: or disgusting. He says, I'm not like most people, and
Speaker 2: they start taunting and playing games to get a confession
Speaker 2: out of him, and we learn that he's had four
Speaker 2: dads throughout his life.
Speaker 3: He calls his mom a good mother.
Speaker 2: They're very close and then he goes, Simpocado, what is that, Potico?
Speaker 3: Yeah, tell us about that.
Speaker 1: Simpotico is like, we're good, We're we vibe, we're simpatico.
Speaker 1: Like I think it's like I mean, in Spanish or
Speaker 1: other languages.
Speaker 2: Oh I thought it was Italian too. So he says
Speaker 2: we have similar attention spans. So we want to know
Speaker 2: about Patrice Connolly, you know, And he says she was nice,
Speaker 2: but you know, she had problems with her feet, so
Speaker 2: I massage them.
Speaker 3: Rollins goes, yeah, you did more than that, and he giggles.
Speaker 2: And he's creepy as fuck, so creepy, and his name
Speaker 2: is Todd Alan Crane and he looks really creepy in
Speaker 2: his regular photos too, So sorry to that man, you
Speaker 2: are a freak.
Speaker 3: And he's like.
Speaker 2: Like this man like all his head shots are insane,
Speaker 2: like creepy, creepy. But he's like, nah, man, maybe she's
Speaker 2: living out some weirdo sexual fantasy.
Speaker 3: And he's like, old women are attracted to me. It's
Speaker 3: just my it's but it's just not my thing.
Speaker 2: Then they drop a bomb on him and they're like, well,
Speaker 2: you know, we're gonna get the rape kit from back
Speaker 2: from the lab and he goes, oh, okay, I'll wait
Speaker 2: for my lawyer then. So they leave and Finn's at
Speaker 2: the bar. God, it seems like he's drinking a screwdriver,
Speaker 2: which is disgusting. Benson walks in her hair, you know,
Speaker 2: swaying in the wind. She calls him sarge, and he's like,
Speaker 2: just not into the idea of pushing paper. He's like,
Speaker 2: if I wanted to do paperwork and working and insurance,
Speaker 2: and that's what I always say about our business too.
Speaker 2: I'm like, if you're not having a good time, like,
Speaker 2: go do something else. Like I don't understand why you're here.
Speaker 2: I don't get it, but yeah, you know, but the
Speaker 2: CoP's got to do paperwork. So buzz buzz phone ring.
Speaker 2: Benson is shocked. She's on her way. Patrice died. It's
Speaker 2: really soad. He tells her to go be a cop.
Speaker 2: You know, someone's got to do it, and he's contemplating
Speaker 2: like while she walks out, and now like they have
Speaker 2: the DNA, but now that she's dead, like he can
Speaker 2: claim it's consensual. We need her testimony, so he's gonna
Speaker 2: get away with it, and she goes, well, not if
Speaker 2: we charge him with two rapes. Benson believes there is
Speaker 2: a chance that maybe Fanula, you know, Maddie can I
Speaker 2: d him. So they're at the Nice Center and they're
Speaker 2: with the daughter around the tables and she's doing like,
Speaker 2: you know, the the iPad search, and she sees him
Speaker 2: in the iPad. She starts flipping out talking about the cookies.
Speaker 2: She is sobbing. Her daughter is hugging her, try to
Speaker 2: calm her down. And it's obviously this the man. So
Speaker 2: we have to bring this psycho down. But Stone goes,
Speaker 2: this is a long shot, and Benson's like, please, there's.
Speaker 3: Got to be away.
Speaker 2: She goes, we shove them away and give them coloring books.
Speaker 2: The least we can do is keep predators out of
Speaker 2: their beds. That's like a good line. And he agrees
Speaker 2: to the case and just hopes that the judge loves
Speaker 2: his mother. So we're in chambers and it's Judge Lisa
Speaker 2: Peck and we go back and forth. Is she a
Speaker 2: credible or not credible witness? You know. Maddie Stone goes,
Speaker 2: just because she's ill doesn't mean she shouldn't have rights
Speaker 2: that everyone else has. The judge starts chatting with her.
Speaker 2: She and the judge is being nice enough. Maddie's on it.
Speaker 2: She's answering the questions well, but she she you know,
Speaker 2: not flies off the hand. She loses. It's not gonna work.
Speaker 2: And the other attorney is so smug, and even the
Speaker 2: judge is sad. Stone sad, like everyone is sad except
Speaker 2: the smug ass bitch, and the case is dismissed.
Speaker 3: So that really fucking sucks. We have to get this guy.
Speaker 3: He's a predator.
Speaker 2: And so we meet the daughter in Benson in the
Speaker 2: marble hallway and the daughter goes, fuck, that's it, and
Speaker 2: Christina and her mother walk away. Benson and Stone are like, God,
Speaker 2: what are we gonna do? And then Stone sneaky, sneaky,
Speaker 2: He's like, you know, his mom's name didn't really get
Speaker 2: a crowd or any pressed here. It's kind of weird.
Speaker 2: No one's clamoring for scoop. It seems like something the
Speaker 2: newspapers would like. And so Benson dads and bam, it's
Speaker 2: in the paper Broadways bad seed, and they were right,
Speaker 2: there's more. All these people start filing in. It happened
Speaker 2: to a man's mom who's eighty seven. He showed her
Speaker 2: the paper and she said, that's him, and he feels
Speaker 2: so bad because she did tell him something happened her
Speaker 2: six months ago and he didn't take her seriously. And
Speaker 2: then another woman comes in and Benson says, aar restless
Speaker 2: son of a bitch. So the mama bear opens the
Speaker 2: door AND's like, oh, not again, and Rollin says, hopefully
Speaker 2: it'll be the last time. And Rollin drops the bomb
Speaker 2: that they have evidence that he's raped four other women,
Speaker 2: and Creasy bets the numbers double by the end of
Speaker 2: the week. The mom is babbling on about the smear
Speaker 2: campaign and she's pissed, but and then she starts calling
Speaker 2: her son a fame whore, just like his father, and
Speaker 2: he's stunned by her cruelty and he's like, what the fuck,
Speaker 2: Like all these climbers, all these dudes you let into
Speaker 2: your bed, and he goes, you're a real whore. So
Speaker 2: then they he's like going on that they used her
Speaker 2: and tossed her out and didn't care about her and
Speaker 2: didn't see her. But he always knew how beautiful she was,
Speaker 2: and you know, he would brush her hair and I
Speaker 2: think like lotion her.
Speaker 3: He was like, your skin is so soft after a bath.
Speaker 3: So yeah, it's giving peak, it's giving a revisit of peak.
Speaker 1: It's giving like except the mom's not doing anything, but like,
Speaker 1: it's giving the disgusting Margot Kidder and Chadlow relationship.
Speaker 2: It's also giving me a little bit of mother's juice,
Speaker 2: you know, but chugging his opera mom's butt, Like that's
Speaker 2: you know, it's weird. Yeah, so that's our first episode.
Speaker 2: If you haven't listened, give it a listen.
Speaker 3: Whatever.
Speaker 2: The guy's sweating, the mom goes you, and he's sweating,
Speaker 2: I loved you, mother.
Speaker 3: Why couldn't you love me back just a little? So
Speaker 3: he's crying.
Speaker 2: He gets cuffed and she just snuggles with her dog,
Speaker 2: and so Benson's talking to Christine and she goes he's
Speaker 2: going to jail for a really long time. And then
Speaker 2: Mattie gives her a necklace and says, I love you,
Speaker 2: and Benson doesn't want to take it, but Mattie's like,
Speaker 2: we're best friends. And then oh my god, Max is
Speaker 2: back and he's smiling and he brought her white chrysanthemums
Speaker 2: and it's really cute, and Christina and Benson are like, oh,
Speaker 2: we'll get out of here, and so they're flirting she
Speaker 2: smells the flowers and she goes, thank you Max and
Speaker 2: giggles and he's so happy and I'm so happy for this.
Speaker 2: Benson's tried, and then so you know, Christina Benson walk
Speaker 2: out and Benson tries to give the necklace back and
Speaker 2: Christine goes, nope, that's for you, and Benson goes she
Speaker 2: has dementia, like she didn't know what she was doing,
Speaker 2: and Christine goes, yes, she did, and Benson, where's the necklace?
Speaker 2: She stomps on into SVU and Finn's still at his
Speaker 2: desk and it's like, what are you doing? He goes,
Speaker 2: I got transferred back here. She's so happy and then
Speaker 2: she just you know, goes.
Speaker 3: I need this.
Speaker 2: I need my DD five because that's how HR works.
Speaker 2: HR is like, you don't like a job, You're back
Speaker 2: two days wow, because she goes, do I even want
Speaker 2: to know how you pulled this off? And he goes no,
Speaker 2: So I bet he like pull the bribe a secret
Speaker 2: or whatever. Yeah, so she wants paperwork. They smile, and
Speaker 2: this episode actually ends on like Finn's beautifully you know,
Speaker 2: smiling face and he's really happy to be a cop. Yeah,
Speaker 2: because he the whole time on the show. What season
Speaker 2: is this nineteen? This is season nineteen. He's been on
Speaker 2: since season two. He's threatened to leave a million times.
Speaker 2: He's like, I'm out of here. I want to transfer.
Speaker 2: I don't like Stabler. I want to transfer. I don't
Speaker 2: like Munch.
Speaker 3: I'm going. I'm going. I'm going. He never goes.
Speaker 2: No, he don't go nowhere. All right, let's get into
Speaker 2: the crimes. I'm sad, I don't want to, but we're
Speaker 2: gonna do it.
Speaker 1: The first thing that this was apparently based on was
Speaker 1: the crimes that happened at the Eagle Crest Nursing Home,
Speaker 1: which is in Carmichael, California. This is a nursing home,
Speaker 1: it's a larger facility. They had been long subject to
Speaker 1: scrutiny by the government for quality of care issues. They
Speaker 1: were on the federal government's Consumer Bewareless so doesn't sound
Speaker 1: like they were doing great. And then on the evening
Speaker 1: of February fifteenth, twenty seventeen, so not the day before
Speaker 1: Valentine's Day, the day after a seventy nine year old
Speaker 1: woman with Alzheimer's was found naked in her bed at
Speaker 1: Eagle Crest and a seventy year old male residence was there,
Speaker 1: pulling up his pants and getting back in his wheelchair.
Speaker 1: The man had been spotted also five months earlier, touching
Speaker 1: this woman's breast, so like he had a history with her.
Speaker 3: The woman thought she was engaging in.
Speaker 1: Intimacy with her husband, who had passed, and the man,
Speaker 1: who did not suffer from any cognitive issues, said she
Speaker 1: took off her clothes and called him darling, and so
Speaker 1: he was excited.
Speaker 3: He thought he had consent. He was like, let's go,
Speaker 3: you know.
Speaker 1: So it's a kind of a murky area because this
Speaker 1: man thought he was receiving consent, but obviously your condition,
Speaker 1: but you just you oh, it was a resident, yeah,
Speaker 1: another resident, another resident in this case. So I think
Speaker 1: this is a little bit maybe where the max part
Speaker 1: or not really because that was when they were younger.
Speaker 1: But her condition makes it impossible to consent. And Claire Day,
Speaker 1: the chief program officer at the Alzheimer's Association of Northern
Speaker 1: California and Northern Nevada, told the Sacramento Bee, who is
Speaker 1: the only outlet that really.
Speaker 3: Really reported on this at all?
Speaker 1: She said, consent is a very tricky thing when you're
Speaker 1: talking about dementia, and when someone loses that ability to
Speaker 1: give consent. It's always it isn't always clear. It's very gray.
Speaker 1: So California does not have a law that determines if
Speaker 1: people with dementia can consent. But there's an elder abuse
Speaker 1: attorney in San Francisco named Catherine Stebner who says she's
Speaker 1: represented a lot of victims in cases like this, and
Speaker 1: she told the Sacramento be if you have moderate to
Speaker 1: severe dementia, you are unable to can sent to sexual
Speaker 1: relations period.
Speaker 3: That all makes sense, but this man, I don't know.
Speaker 3: He thought he was getting consent.
Speaker 1: She goes on to explain that this kind of assault
Speaker 1: is rampant in elder care facilities, especially because people with
Speaker 1: dementia can have lowered inhibitions and they can behave in
Speaker 1: sexually explicit ways, and these places don't really train their
Speaker 1: staff enough to deal with this issue and it's mostly
Speaker 1: swept under the rug. Like Stepner also represented an eighty
Speaker 1: eight year old woman who was raped in a nursing
Speaker 1: home in Monterey by someone unknown that they never figured
Speaker 1: out in twenty ten, and she was only there for
Speaker 1: a short state of recover from a stroke and her
Speaker 1: assailant was never identified but gave her an STD and
Speaker 1: her only sexual partner her whole life had been her
Speaker 1: husband of seventy years and he did not have the STD.
Speaker 1: So she got a civil settlement for this woman and
Speaker 1: then the facility was sold and changed its name. So
Speaker 1: state inspectors did conclude that at this place, Eagle Crest,
Speaker 1: that she was sexually abused multiple times by this fellow resident,
Speaker 1: and it led to the State of California trying to
Speaker 1: force the government to shut the place down and have
Speaker 1: Medicare drop the facility. They were about to have immediate
Speaker 1: jeopardy or it's what's called an IJ issued against them,
Speaker 1: which is a huge blow for nursing homes, I guess,
Speaker 1: But to avoid this, they just shut down. Eagle Crests
Speaker 1: just voluntarily shut down in twenty seventeen after this happened,
Speaker 1: So the one hundred and twenty six bed facility was
Speaker 1: just no longer and it displaced a lot of patients,
Speaker 1: but maybe for the best.
Speaker 3: They didn't seem like they were doing a great job.
Speaker 1: But this is a real case that I want to
Speaker 1: get into because this was not even listed anywhere as
Speaker 1: what this is based on, but it must be. This
Speaker 1: Eagle Crest thing happened in twenty seventeen, and this article
Speaker 1: in CNN came out in twenty seventeen. And this is
Speaker 1: all the year before this episode was aired, and so
Speaker 1: right before this episode was you know, being written in stuff.
Speaker 1: CNN did a very in depth report on the epidemic
Speaker 1: of sexual assaults in elder care facilities called Sick Dying
Speaker 1: and Raped in America's Nursing Homes, and that came out
Speaker 1: in twenty seventeen. CNN also reported on the crimes of
Speaker 1: a nurse's aide named Louis Gomez.
Speaker 3: We know a comic with that name, so that's why
Speaker 3: we That's why I didn Yeah.
Speaker 1: Lasts Luis Gomez a Guatemalan. Guatemalan man who had moved
Speaker 1: to Waynesville, North Carolina. It's like in the Smoky Mountains
Speaker 1: in the late nineties. He really spoke no English, so
Speaker 1: he learned English. The got certified to be a nursing
Speaker 1: assistant and started working with the elderly in two thousand. Allegedly,
Speaker 1: he was known to go the extra mile for patients,
Speaker 1: get to know them, get to know their families. According
Speaker 1: to the article, he was quote especially charming with female residents.
Speaker 1: According to some of his accusers, he'd buy them gifts
Speaker 1: like perfume and tell them he wanted to marry them.
Speaker 3: I don't think you need to go that far.
Speaker 1: In February of twenty sixteen, several residents at the Brian
Speaker 1: Center Health and Rehabilitation Center in Waynesville reported that Gomez
Speaker 1: had assaulted them, always when their roommates were out. One
Speaker 1: victim said she was terrified to ever wring the call
Speaker 1: button when Gomez was on shift.
Speaker 3: She was like, I would not ring my bell no
Speaker 3: matter what I needed.
Speaker 1: Victims, as well as another nurse, reported some of these
Speaker 1: assaults to the head of nursing, Gail Robertson, who always
Speaker 1: said I'll take care of it. I'll take care of it.
Speaker 1: And then this one whistleblower nurse was like, didn't You're
Speaker 1: not taking care of it. She noticed after she reported
Speaker 1: one of the rapes that she didn't call the authorities.
Speaker 1: She didn't call a doctor to do a kit, nothing,
Speaker 1: so she's like, I'm calling the cops. And the three
Speaker 1: accusers at Brian were fifty three, sixty three, and sixty four,
Speaker 1: so that is like on the younger side for a
Speaker 1: nursing home. A couple of them were in there for
Speaker 1: like like one of the other victims we talked about,
Speaker 1: like stroke rehabilitation, or they had pulmonary issues where they
Speaker 1: needed they couldn't breathe, they needed assistance, and they were
Speaker 1: not super mobile. So this guy is always going after
Speaker 1: stroke victims, people with pulmonary issues so they're not fully mobile,
Speaker 1: they have trouble breathing.
Speaker 3: He's a sick buck.
Speaker 1: So when Waynesville PD starts investigating, another officer remembered, Oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: I remember six months back. I transported this other woman
Speaker 1: from Brian to a psychiatric facility in at the end
Speaker 1: of twenty sixteen, and she was so excited to get
Speaker 1: out of Brian because she said an employee there had
Speaker 1: been raping her. Good job, good job following up, buddy,
Speaker 1: good job. Like he just was like, oh yeah, I
Speaker 1: remember that she said that, and I'm a police officer,
Speaker 1: but I didn't do anything about it. So the Wayneville
Speaker 1: the Waynesville police detectives were Chris Chandler and Page Shell,
Speaker 1: and they started looking into Gomez and discovering that he
Speaker 1: had been investigated as far back as twenty eleven when
Speaker 1: working at a center ten minutes away called the Smoky
Speaker 1: Mountain Health and Rehabilitation Center. There, an eighty nine year
Speaker 1: old woman with dementia claimed that Gomez assaulted her. At
Speaker 1: another facility, a woman also accused Gomez, but then later recanted,
Speaker 1: saying she was confused, but I'm sure she was telling
Speaker 1: the truth. So that'd six victims at three different homes.
Speaker 1: Much like the guy in this episode, he's moving around
Speaker 1: and the state knew about half of those, and yet
Speaker 1: his record with the state was completely clean because all
Speaker 1: of the complaints against him had been unsubstantiated, meaning nothing
Speaker 1: was ever proven. And obviously this guy is picking his
Speaker 1: victims very specifically. He's not doing anything in front of
Speaker 1: anyone with cameras. He works at like the night like
Speaker 1: I think he works the later shifts, Like it's like, obviously,
Speaker 1: we're not going to substantiate anything.
Speaker 3: He set it up that way.
Speaker 1: It's also extremely difficult to substantiate claims in these homes,
Speaker 1: like and the state only flag substantiated claims, and that's nationwide.
Speaker 1: So it's like, I don't even know how it works
Speaker 1: in law enforcement, but doesn't it. I feel like sometimes
Speaker 1: it's like, oh, they were under investigation for that but cleared.
Speaker 1: Oh they were under investigation for that, but cleared that
Speaker 1: at least if you showed that on someone's thing, he
Speaker 1: wouldn't be able to get as many jobs. But it
Speaker 1: was just showed clean, like it just showed absolutely clean,
Speaker 1: no investigations. So anyway, this predator is just getting a
Speaker 1: new job everywhere he wants and they see no problems
Speaker 1: on his record. And Gomez is not the only one.
Speaker 1: Of course, there was a guy in Minnesota named George
Speaker 1: Copingpa Copingba. I don't know he's got his name. I've
Speaker 1: never seen a name that begins.
Speaker 3: With a K and a P.
Speaker 1: So George Kupingba was an aid in Minnesota who worked
Speaker 1: for eight years at an elder care facility despite numerous
Speaker 1: investigations there but nothing ever went through until finally a
Speaker 1: nurse walked in on him raping a patient, and then
Speaker 1: he was finally got eight years in jail. A guy
Speaker 1: named Joel Maldonado was working in Port Orange, Florida, was
Speaker 1: accused of assaulting three residents, including a one hundred year
Speaker 1: old Alzheimer's patient. This is so tough to research and gross,
Speaker 1: but the Gomez story caught attention because of the number
Speaker 1: of victims like six victims across three different places. I
Speaker 1: mean probably more like where there's smoke, there's fire. He
Speaker 1: was fired from the Brian Center two weeks after the
Speaker 1: claims came out in twenty sixteen. Eventually, the Brian Center
Speaker 1: was cited for infractions like failure to protect residence sexual abuse,
Speaker 1: to inform a legend victims' families and physicians, to report
Speaker 1: suspicion of a crime immediately law enforcement, to supervise the
Speaker 1: alleged perpetrator until he left the facility, like all kinds
Speaker 1: of stuff. Failure to empower staff to call law enforcement.
Speaker 1: Like the woman who ended up calling on Gomez was
Speaker 1: considered a whistleblower, and she later was like, I'll probably
Speaker 1: never work in a nursing home again. These places don't
Speaker 1: like to hire whistleblowers. I was like, I should talk
Speaker 1: to my friend. He's an administ at a at a
Speaker 1: nursing facility in California.
Speaker 2: No.
Speaker 3: I remember we had a rich kid in my grade
Speaker 3: and I was talking to an adult.
Speaker 2: I don't even remember what, but the adult was like, oh,
Speaker 2: you know his dad made money in nursing homes. That's
Speaker 2: like they're known to be evil, you know, because even
Speaker 2: though the good ones are just so expensive and gouge out,
Speaker 2: and still they don't want all this try. I mean,
Speaker 2: there's just been so many episodes on SVU T who
Speaker 2: about these homes. But like, I know, it's not an
Speaker 2: honorable profession. I think it's like when you meet someone
Speaker 2: from that owns you, it's a little suspicious right away,
Speaker 2: I would say, right, And I think it's hard to hire.
Speaker 3: It's hard to find staff that want.
Speaker 1: To want you know what I mean, And like, yes,
Speaker 1: what if you want someone who's like helping you do
Speaker 1: the like you do you want to keep your patients safe. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's so especially because one of these accusations, these centers
Speaker 1: get either shut down or they voluntarily shut down. It's like,
Speaker 1: it's not good for your business to have this happen.
Speaker 1: But I guess they think most of the time, it
Speaker 1: doesn't even get to the cops. Most of the time
Speaker 1: it's like, oh, she's making it up, she's remembering something
Speaker 1: that happened forty years ago, whatever, Like they don't think
Speaker 1: it's real. So they did lose government funding the Brian Center,
Speaker 1: and they though it was a temporary loss of government funding.
Speaker 1: They had to pay like one hundred and ten thousand
Speaker 1: dollars fine. Gail Robertson, the head of the nursing at
Speaker 1: that place, who had ignored all the complaints, was fired.
Speaker 3: Thank god.
Speaker 1: She's like the opposite of the guy in the SVU
Speaker 1: episode who's like offers all the footage and everything. She's like,
Speaker 1: I'll take care of it, and then does nothing and
Speaker 1: her boss left. So and then Gomez was arrested in
Speaker 1: March of twenty sixteen, a month after the investigation began,
Speaker 1: which is pretty speedy, I would say. A grand jury
Speaker 1: indicted him on two council of forcible rape and sexual
Speaker 1: activity by a custodian. CNN went to tat him in
Speaker 1: jail a charge. Yeah, it's probably a harsher charge than
Speaker 1: like doing to a stranger because it's a caretaker. It's
Speaker 1: someone who you've been trusted to, you know, to take
Speaker 1: care of you.
Speaker 3: But I don't know. It might be a harsher I
Speaker 3: don't know.
Speaker 1: But CNN went to talk to Gomez while he was
Speaker 1: in jail awaiting trial, and he said he had a
Speaker 1: really difficult job and that he'd done nothing wrong. He said,
Speaker 1: I've done nothing wrong. I regret nothing, but was also
Speaker 1: maintaining his innocence the whole time. After a week long trial,
Speaker 1: he was found guilty of raping two Bryan Center residence
Speaker 1: and convicted on six counts that included forceale rape with
Speaker 1: a physically helpless victim.
Speaker 3: I guess that's also a charge. I don't know. He
Speaker 3: was sentenced to at least twenty three years in prison. Yeah,
Speaker 3: so fucked up dude though too.
Speaker 1: There's like stuff in the articles about him, like, you know,
Speaker 1: being violent with his wife too, and he just seemed
Speaker 1: like he was always cheating, Like he just seemed like
Speaker 1: a ill person.
Speaker 2: But reminds me of Jimmy several you know rating Yeah,
Speaker 2: kids in the hospitals just so, or even the movie
Speaker 2: Kill Bill.
Speaker 3: It's like it's tough, the coma pace.
Speaker 1: It's I am glad that there's like reporting on it
Speaker 1: and that SPU does episodes about it and stuff too,
Speaker 1: because I do like hope that it gives some parents
Speaker 1: and administrators and stuff like that, like a pause where
Speaker 1: they're like, Okay, maybe they are telling the truth about this.
Speaker 1: Maybe this isn't just like just because they were rambling
Speaker 1: on about confusing you with somebody that is dead a
Speaker 1: minute ago, doesn't mean, they're not telling the truth about
Speaker 1: something like this.
Speaker 2: So I just yeah, And that's why I liked in
Speaker 2: the episode where the dude goes I'd rather be safe
Speaker 2: than sorry, because it's like this bitch wasn't She's like, ah,
Speaker 2: I will do. I mean, I can't name what, but
Speaker 2: someone just told me about getting rapes on set of something,
Speaker 2: and then God and the network told them not to, like,
Speaker 2: the network set them down.
Speaker 3: I was like, you better not say anything, Jesus, that's
Speaker 3: fucking terrible.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because I was talking about a show I liked
Speaker 2: and then someone told me, oh my god, oh my god.
Speaker 2: So yeah, a lot of the times when it's like, oh,
Speaker 2: why didn't you speak up, it's like people do. People
Speaker 2: try to speak up and they're shut down by people
Speaker 2: that are like, well it's too much paperwork.
Speaker 3: I don't know, does it really matter?
Speaker 2: Like yeah, yeah, it's like all right, see, well we
Speaker 2: have a great guest, so thank god that's sad.
Speaker 1: Let's cleanse the pallet with a lovely chat with our guests.
Speaker 1: Don't go anywhere. Today's guest is a Dick Wolf Universe icon.
Speaker 1: She's been on several iterations of Law and Order, including
Speaker 1: three episodes of SVU and Chicago Justice. She's been featured
Speaker 1: in other huge shows like Blacklist, Elementary, and House of Cards.
Speaker 3: Plus she's a teacher at Juilliard.
Speaker 1: You guys, come on, but you know her today as
Speaker 1: sad daughter Christine Ritchie, and you probably also know her
Speaker 1: as Eyebrows, as Lisa likes to call her from the
Speaker 1: episode Bombshell. But please enjoy our conversation with the very
Speaker 1: talented Kathleen mcneney. Okay, this is amazing that we're talking
Speaker 1: to you because you're a Dick Wolf Universe icon. You've
Speaker 1: been in so many episodes and we well, obviously we
Speaker 1: were talking today about the episode Mama, but we are
Speaker 1: gonna obviously have to talk to you about Bombshell, which
Speaker 1: is one of our favorite episodes. We have actually haven't
Speaker 1: done it on the podcast because we do it at
Speaker 1: our live shows. That's where we tend to do our
Speaker 1: camp ere Wilder episodes of SVU, and we've been like,
Speaker 1: when she was like the wife from bobshell is on
Speaker 1: another episode, I was like, we gotta get her.
Speaker 3: Is that the one where I stab him in the penis? Yes? Yes, yes,
Speaker 3: you guys are swingers. You guys are cool, you're in
Speaker 3: the lifestyle.
Speaker 4: These stories they come up with are fantastic, aren't they?
Speaker 4: And then they I ran pulled from the headlines. You're like, OK, yes, yes,
Speaker 4: I mean this one is like so.
Speaker 1: Sad and like Harry, but like beautiful acting from you
Speaker 1: and from Finula your mother, Like how was working with her?
Speaker 1: She's like a legendary legend.
Speaker 3: Well, I'll tell you.
Speaker 4: What was interesting is that during lunch you want to
Speaker 4: sit at the table with Finula and how Helenda's also yeah,
Speaker 4: and the two of them, you're just kind of like
Speaker 4: because they tell these amazing stories because their careers are
Speaker 4: so epic, and so they have hilarious stories, and they
Speaker 4: knew each other.
Speaker 3: I can't remember what, but their lives kind of kind.
Speaker 4: Of overlapped in places, so they would share stories about,
Speaker 4: you know, various people that they knew, right, just kind
Speaker 4: of like it was like incredible to be a fly
Speaker 4: on the wall when you have these two incredible legendary
Speaker 4: actors around.
Speaker 3: It's extraordinary. Yeah, so so awesome.
Speaker 1: And I know you've done two Law and Order original
Speaker 1: recipes as I like to call them, Uh, you've done
Speaker 1: two criminal intents and then you've done three s views.
Speaker 1: Do you have a I mean, I'm I'm sure you're
Speaker 1: considering present company. Do you have a favorite set that.
Speaker 3: You like to be on. Well, I also did a
Speaker 3: Chicago Justice and all of them are Wolf productions.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, so when you are it's funny because they do,
Speaker 4: ever so slightly feel like you are in the same
Speaker 4: world in all of them. So it's not like you
Speaker 4: necessarily they're run really well, they're tight ships, they're really
Speaker 4: I know everyone says well oiled machines, but they are
Speaker 4: They're very right, so everyone knows what they're doing. The SBU,
Speaker 4: in particular, what I love about it this last This
Speaker 4: Mama one that I was on. You know, now you've
Speaker 4: got Mariscus and now like producing it, directing it. So
Speaker 4: you also have the feel that the way in which
Speaker 4: they know their characters and they talk about them are
Speaker 4: it's just they know they know, they know what they want,
Speaker 4: and they know who they are, and they know how
Speaker 4: to get it, and they work fast, and they work efficiently,
Speaker 4: and they work with joy. They're not like this is
Speaker 4: something that I haven't been on shows where people are
Speaker 4: tired and crabby, and you would think that after all
Speaker 4: those years that they.
Speaker 3: Might be, and they are not. That's what we hear.
Speaker 3: That's what they are not.
Speaker 4: I just don't understand how like great it is that
Speaker 4: they came in it still feels fresh and alive, and
Speaker 4: they're excited to see you and play with you and
Speaker 4: laugh with you and yeah, take a selfie with you.
Speaker 3: I'm like, who wants to do that?
Speaker 2: But they do.
Speaker 3: They're great.
Speaker 1: They could be still on in season about to be
Speaker 1: season twenty six if they weren't having fun, right like,
Speaker 1: I think they've yeah, probably part of it.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, And I think you know Mura kind she
Speaker 4: kind of like because she you know that last one,
Speaker 4: she's the big cheese, she's number one, so you you know,
Speaker 4: you know her the way her dressing room and her
Speaker 4: kids and her family and and her activism.
Speaker 3: I mean she gave us all shirts for her organization
Speaker 3: and and I just like she just kind of she's
Speaker 3: just kind of. Yes, there's an ease to it.
Speaker 4: You don't feel like she's floating somewhere in another dimension
Speaker 4: that you're not allowed to step into, right, which is
Speaker 4: again just refreshing, because you would think you would get tired,
Speaker 4: really tired of it, because I've been on sets where
Speaker 4: that does happen, and that's just not the case.
Speaker 1: It's lovely really, or the number one is just like
Speaker 1: a grump or something or not a not as what
Speaker 1: we hear a sweet person that she is.
Speaker 3: But what are you going to say?
Speaker 2: I was going to say, without naming names, Can you
Speaker 2: tell us kind of like an opposite experience that you
Speaker 2: have that sticks out in your mind?
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, do not ask me to name nates, but
Speaker 4: I would tell you. I will tell you that I
Speaker 4: was once on a set where I got embarrassed to
Speaker 4: be an actor because the regulars were so poorly behaved.
Speaker 3: Oh my god.
Speaker 4: They were back talking to the director, they were not
Speaker 4: being generous with coverage, they were leaving and leading people hanging.
Speaker 4: And I remember sitting there going, oh, this is what
Speaker 4: gives actors bad names. And it was really embarrassing. Frankly, Yeah,
Speaker 4: so I mean that can happen. Yeah, Yeah, we've just
Speaker 4: really really poor behaved and sad.
Speaker 3: I find it sad.
Speaker 4: Yeah, because it's a privilege what we get to do,
Speaker 4: a real privilege. And then you've got those amazing crews
Speaker 4: that are just working twice as hard as you are,
Speaker 4: coming in.
Speaker 3: Earlier, leaving later.
Speaker 4: You know there for every shot, they don't get to
Speaker 4: go back to their drailer and take a rest and whatnot.
Speaker 4: I mean, it's just totally different. And then it's I
Speaker 4: find it disrespectful for them as well.
Speaker 3: You know, yeah, I always think about the guy having
Speaker 3: to hold the boom. I don't know how that seems amazing. Arms.
Speaker 3: You're right, we're gonna ask, oh my god, I.
Speaker 1: Can't hold my phone in bed for more than five
Speaker 1: minutes without my hand falling asleep. You know, I think
Speaker 1: boom operators off the table for me. Well, so you
Speaker 1: were also in an episode. Okay, so you've been on
Speaker 1: three like pretty iconic a s few episodes. You've been
Speaker 1: on the episode Conscience in season six where you like
Speaker 1: Kyle McLaughlin's wife and the unfortunately the mother who's had
Speaker 1: her child killed by a psychopathic other.
Speaker 3: Child, and it seems like your husband kind of pills
Speaker 3: you up.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I mean it's uh, I had it seems
Speaker 4: to me, kin they're going to blend together.
Speaker 3: But I've done more than one where something happens to
Speaker 3: my kid.
Speaker 4: Yeah, Like there's a period of time where like, you know,
Speaker 4: my children are like you know, and I remember playing
Speaker 4: at the same time, I went through this little period
Speaker 4: where I also on stage.
Speaker 3: I'm like, okay, enough with the dead kids. Yeah, I
Speaker 3: can't do this anymore, you know. And I also had
Speaker 3: a child time, so it was like all like yeah,
Speaker 3: like I don't mean more dead kids.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, but you did an episode season six, and
Speaker 1: you did Season twelve was Bombshell, and then season nineteen
Speaker 1: is Mama. So technically, if you're going by the numbers,
Speaker 1: you really do to come back now, you really do
Speaker 1: for season twenty six. Like, if you're going to be
Speaker 1: coming back every six or seven.
Speaker 3: Season, who would you want to come back as without
Speaker 3: a dead child? A child of a dead mom.
Speaker 1: You've been swinging my wife, who's who stabs her husband
Speaker 1: in the private parts?
Speaker 3: And you've been daughter of a victim? So now what's
Speaker 3: number four? Oh I don't know the judge? Well, good,
Speaker 3: But then they'll bring you back, they'll bring you back,
Speaker 3: that's right. I want to be a recurring judge. Everyone
Speaker 3: wants to be a recurring judge. Yeah, but I could
Speaker 3: see you playing like a secret bad guy or.
Speaker 1: Something like a like a laced up mom. But then
Speaker 1: you have like a secret crazy side or something playing
Speaker 1: the bad guy yeah, the bad guy is fun to play,
Speaker 1: but it is. It is funny because all of us like,
Speaker 1: what is the clock? What is the period of time?
Speaker 1: How long can you wait?
Speaker 3: And I think there is some sort of rule. I
Speaker 3: don't know what you say.
Speaker 1: So one of our first guests was the guests, Oh
Speaker 1: my god, now I'm blanking on his last name O'Keefe,
Speaker 1: Michael O'Keefe, Michael O'Keeffe. And he was like, they used
Speaker 1: to put me on like every season at the beginning,
Speaker 1: and then they made a rule that was like it's
Speaker 1: got to be X amount of years or whatever. But
Speaker 1: I think it's like five years, and you've got pretty
Speaker 1: much five or six between each of these appearances, so
Speaker 1: I think it's time for another one.
Speaker 4: Coming up from your lips to God's ear, I would
Speaker 4: be lovely well also.
Speaker 2: Not a dead kid, but I was obsessed with you
Speaker 2: and the daughter in Bombshell. You guys did look related,
Speaker 2: and you made the same facial expressions and your I
Speaker 2: always comment your eyebrows were like very similar.
Speaker 3: It was fun. Do you have any memories with that girl? Yes?
Speaker 3: Now remember you know what I remember. Okay, please do
Speaker 3: not mix on me for this, but you know what.
Speaker 4: The first thing that pops into my head is the
Speaker 4: pair of incredible jeans that they put me in.
Speaker 3: Oh, I had never been in the para genes.
Speaker 4: That cost that much money. And I went, iuldn't even
Speaker 4: pa because I've never spent that kind of money for
Speaker 4: a pair of jeans.
Speaker 3: And then they.
Speaker 4: Was it free fly, free fly maybe okay. I just
Speaker 4: remember going, I have to write this down. And then
Speaker 4: I looked it up how much they were.
Speaker 1: I was like, I will never be able to That
Speaker 1: was the golden age though, around when Bombshell came out,
Speaker 1: I would say that was the golden age of designer jeans.
Speaker 1: Like that was when it was like seven for all mankind,
Speaker 1: citizens of humanity, like I was.
Speaker 3: That's what it was.
Speaker 1: It was like on eBay bidding for designer jeans because
Speaker 1: I couldn't afford them new I mean like we were
Speaker 1: in a time.
Speaker 3: That was a time they time and done them And
Speaker 3: now I'm remembering now it all comes flooding back.
Speaker 4: For some reason, them putting me in those jeans. I
Speaker 4: was like, I never looked as good into para jeans.
Speaker 4: How can the parent jeans do this?
Speaker 3: I was shore. I was shocked, I'm like, well, maybe,
Speaker 3: yes I did, and they told me no. But I
Speaker 3: went home and I looked it up.
Speaker 4: Beause I thought, I'm gonna just buy myself a pair
Speaker 4: of these jeans, and then I looked at how much they.
Speaker 3: Were, and I was like, oh, gosh, those are expansive.
Speaker 3: But yes, that girl was lovely. She was lovely. So
Speaker 3: I know you went to Juilliard. I did. And do
Speaker 3: you teach at Juilliard now? And I do teach at Juilliard?
Speaker 3: Oh my god. Cool?
Speaker 4: Oh ever, well, I actually when I graduated from school,
Speaker 4: about three or four years after I graduate, now this
Speaker 4: is in the olden times, there was no class that
Speaker 4: had anything to do with the business. And I like,
Speaker 4: you know, I came to New York City from Montana,
Speaker 4: and I'm like, oh, when we talk about I do
Speaker 4: my four years at Juilliard, and then I'm really easton
Speaker 4: to an industry.
Speaker 3: That I don't have any idea what I'm doing. I
Speaker 3: have no idea what's going on.
Speaker 4: And I thought, you know, I think there's a better
Speaker 4: way to make that transition. And there were no was
Speaker 4: a time when there were no career classes at all,
Speaker 4: and so I went back and I said all right,
Speaker 4: I said, I think it should be taught by a woman,
Speaker 4: someone who's not famous, someone who is, right, who's just
Speaker 4: kind of a you know, a middle class when there
Speaker 4: could be middle class actors, just a middle class actor.
Speaker 3: And how do you do that?
Speaker 4: If you get famous, you'll figure that out because people
Speaker 4: will be around you to figure out being famous. But
Speaker 4: how to just kind of, you know, how do you
Speaker 4: find affordable housing, how do you do your taxes, how
Speaker 4: do you like, how do you look at a picture
Speaker 4: and decide what's a good picture and what's a bad picture.
Speaker 3: How do you.
Speaker 4: Navigate, you know, looking for an agent, and just kind of,
Speaker 4: you know, how do you not blow up your own
Speaker 4: career by doing something fucking stupid? Excuse my French.
Speaker 5: Right, So there were those kinds of and I did
Speaker 5: that for quite a while, and I would just kind
Speaker 5: of come in and I did this for decades, decades,
Speaker 5: and I do, like, I don't know, seven eight ten
Speaker 5: classes over the course of a year for the fourth years.
Speaker 3: And then I had.
Speaker 4: Always I was I teach physical acting, and I use
Speaker 4: the tool of the mask. So I'm also a mask teacher.
Speaker 3: And so.
Speaker 4: As a crazy human that I am, I've always taught
Speaker 4: something my whole life. But when I graduated from school,
Speaker 4: what I should have been doing with my money was
Speaker 4: paying for my college loans and whatnot. Instead I went
Speaker 4: out and bought masks.
Speaker 3: Why does that? Who does? Who does that? Stupid thing?
Speaker 4: And I started just kind of teaching workshops and doing
Speaker 4: things around that, and it's something I really enjoy. I
Speaker 4: love being in process with people. That's what I think
Speaker 4: teaching is, and I think it's extremely creative. And I
Speaker 4: love now that i'm older, to be connected with a
Speaker 4: younger generation who kick my ass.
Speaker 3: Go here's what you don't know? And I go, okay, well,
Speaker 3: here's what you don't know.
Speaker 4: Together that you right, we get to collide together and
Speaker 4: it's they stretch me and help me grow, and it's
Speaker 4: just so fantastic and they're beautiful human beings. And yeah,
Speaker 4: I feel really really blessed. So I've been out of
Speaker 4: it at school almost since I left, almost since I left.
Speaker 2: Yeah, wait, so do you teach all ages or is
Speaker 2: it mostly high school and Juilliard or do you ever
Speaker 2: you know, get.
Speaker 4: The little jilliards eighteen to like thirty because it's your
Speaker 4: BFA and MFA is together.
Speaker 3: So do you ever do even younger or no, that's
Speaker 3: not of interest.
Speaker 4: I basically if anyone asks me, I'll do any age, Okay,
Speaker 4: I teach it asper, I teach at the Looci Body House.
Speaker 4: I teach lots of different places, and I love the variety.
Speaker 4: I believe that the world is healed through theater. Through
Speaker 4: through that, I think, I don't you don't have to
Speaker 4: go on to be an actor to benefit from from
Speaker 4: sharing energetic spaces with other people and developing your empathy
Speaker 4: and god, God knows what would happen to the world
Speaker 4: if we all right putting myself in other shoes.
Speaker 1: Yeah, this episode of Mama, I would say, like I
Speaker 1: felt that from your character. I felt the empathy and
Speaker 1: your character because you know, your character is very relatable
Speaker 1: in this episode, Like I'm of the age where a
Speaker 1: lot of my friend's parents are getting older and a
Speaker 1: lot of them are getting diagnosed with sort of dementia Alzheimer's.
Speaker 3: And they don't talk about their past. They have so
Speaker 3: many secrets.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and like just this, like you know, it's it's
Speaker 1: just you know, your character is very like relatable in
Speaker 1: this episode, and you can feel like I just could
Speaker 1: feel like the pain coming off of you of like
Speaker 1: i'm my mom is I'm like losing my mom, but
Speaker 1: also something bad has happened to her and I don't
Speaker 1: know how, like I don't know how we're supposed to
Speaker 1: get it out of this like puzzle. You know, so
Speaker 1: did you have any like memories of making that episode?
Speaker 3: Like uh so, like so many.
Speaker 4: But it's also interesting just the topic itself, because I
Speaker 4: had also just done a play on the same topic,
Speaker 4: and I'd done a ton a ton of research around it,
Speaker 4: and I had we had were fortunate enough to have
Speaker 4: because I think you can read it. It's not New
Speaker 4: York Times magazine. It's they're following a woman who has
Speaker 4: got Alzheimer's who's still cognizant and is aware that she
Speaker 4: is like every day losing things, and her and her
Speaker 4: husband came together to talk to us and about strategies
Speaker 4: that they were using.
Speaker 2: For her.
Speaker 4: Like the phone has become this like amazing thing for
Speaker 4: people with Alzheimer's because it can remind you of things,
Speaker 4: it can have a trackers on it, you know, if
Speaker 4: someone picks it up, they can, you know, help you.
Speaker 4: I mean, it was just interesting to listen to her
Speaker 4: knowing that she she knows she's losing her mind, right,
Speaker 4: horrible horrible disease.
Speaker 3: It's so horrible. Yeah, so horrible.
Speaker 2: I also liked that the episode touched on like one
Speaker 2: of the other women that was attacked by the same man,
Speaker 2: like no one's ever visited her.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and that was that stuck with me.
Speaker 4: Well, I also think, I mean, I found that I
Speaker 4: found that that was interesting too, that the kind of
Speaker 4: whole nursing home thing is also an interesting you know,
Speaker 4: where do we put these people and how are they
Speaker 4: cared for? And you know, it is also just I mean,
Speaker 4: I think it's you know, because we have so many
Speaker 4: people aging are you know, this large population, it's I
Speaker 4: think I think a lot of people can relate to
Speaker 4: to what is going on in that episode and do
Speaker 4: you believe the person or not believe them?
Speaker 3: And how do you know?
Speaker 2: We we we started we're talking back about the episode,
Speaker 2: but you know, we talked about like a bad set situation,
Speaker 2: and we've talked about really bad acting teachers who like
Speaker 2: tell people to get their face done and you know,
Speaker 2: nose jobs and stuff or you're not going to make it.
Speaker 2: So I was just wondering, you seem obviously passionate and positive,
Speaker 2: but any kind of horror stories from your experience.
Speaker 4: My god, when I was very first got out of school,
Speaker 4: I remember I I tested really early on, and it
Speaker 4: came back, we need to see we're worried.
Speaker 3: That she doesn't have good cheekbones. Oh my god.
Speaker 4: I was like, I'm not sure I could do about that.
Speaker 4: And you needed boobs and I didn't have boobs. It
Speaker 4: was like, you know, put the chicken cutlets in.
Speaker 3: I mean, you know, just all this weird stuff. I
Speaker 3: remember early on. Oh you'll love this, this is a
Speaker 3: great story. Actually.
Speaker 4: So I'm auditioning and I'm doing whatever, and I keep
Speaker 4: being sent home from my auditions to change my clothes
Speaker 4: and come back, and my agent is like, what the
Speaker 4: is going on? I don't understand what's going on here.
Speaker 4: They think you're really talented, really good. But like, so
Speaker 4: she comes over to my house. She goes, all right,
Speaker 4: I want to see it's in your closet. And I
Speaker 4: start pulling things out and I laid us, start laying
Speaker 4: the knot, and she goes, oh, she's horrified because I
Speaker 4: was making my own prairie dresses because I'm from Montana,
Speaker 4: And she goes, no, no, no, she's horrified. So she
Speaker 4: has brought some pictures and she from magazines and she
Speaker 4: lays them out on the on the table. She goes, now,
Speaker 4: what do you like, my lovely agent. She goes, well,
Speaker 4: I go I like this, and I like I like this,
Speaker 4: and I like this. She slams her hands on the
Speaker 4: on the table and.
Speaker 3: She goes, no, no, these girls do not get the job.
Speaker 3: She goes, you are not allowed to go shopping.
Speaker 4: She sent someone with me to go shopping, and I'm like, oh,
Speaker 4: this skirt feels so short, like you know, I.
Speaker 1: Mean completely like because I was to like city fire
Speaker 1: your wardrobe a little bit.
Speaker 3: You were just kind of it up a little bit
Speaker 3: because I was really.
Speaker 4: You know, I don't think i'd accepted I was a
Speaker 4: pretty girl. Yeah, I played character parts.
Speaker 3: That's what I like to play. And it was like,
Speaker 3: oh no, that's not you have to go down this path.
Speaker 3: I met my lovely husband. I don't know you.
Speaker 4: I'm married to the fantastic boy Gains who just is
Speaker 4: going to be inducted into the Theater Hall of Fame.
Speaker 3: I'm November.
Speaker 1: He's like, I was going to bring it up later,
Speaker 1: but I was waiting for you to bring him up
Speaker 1: because I wasn't positive your IMDb was updated, and you know,
Speaker 1: I don't want to bring up I don't want to
Speaker 1: bring up a broken marriage.
Speaker 3: No, I was my amazing husband. Yes.
Speaker 1: Yes, Because we always ask people that are married, because
Speaker 1: we've talked to a lot of people on our podcasts
Speaker 1: that are married to other actors.
Speaker 3: Whe were like, you know, how does it do you?
Speaker 2: Like it?
Speaker 3: Does it? Does it?
Speaker 1: Because my husband and I are both comedians, and we
Speaker 1: say it solved and creates a lot of problems, you know,
Speaker 1: so like do you guys audition together or do you
Speaker 1: help not audition together, like help each other with auditions?
Speaker 4: Like, well, well, first of all, so following up on
Speaker 4: this story, I was getting ready when we were very
Speaker 4: first going out.
Speaker 3: I was getting ready to head out the door to
Speaker 3: audition and he goes, where are you going. I'm going.
Speaker 3: I'm going to the audition. Now. He goes, come here,
Speaker 3: and he literally redressed me. He goes, take that off
Speaker 3: to whatever.
Speaker 4: I get to the audition, I slip my hand into
Speaker 4: the into the suit jacket that he's put me and
Speaker 4: I pull it out and I have a little note
Speaker 4: there that says, you look fucking hot.
Speaker 3: Oh, have an amazing husband. That's amazing. He's amazing.
Speaker 4: He's an amazing guy. So anyway, so do we We've
Speaker 4: worked together a lot. We've been very fortunate to do
Speaker 4: a lot of plays together, which I love because he's
Speaker 4: so much better actor than I am, so he makes
Speaker 4: me better now.
Speaker 3: He really is a really man. I am know that
Speaker 3: you don't get induction into the Theater Hall of Fame
Speaker 3: because you suck. He has four Tony Awards, He's been
Speaker 3: nominated five times. He's just he's really an extraordinary actor.
Speaker 1: I was on his IMDb, but IMDb doesn't cover theater,
Speaker 1: so like I didn't know what the theater stuff he's done.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, No, he's a theater guy.
Speaker 4: That's his, that's his. He's an amazing theater artist. That's
Speaker 4: where he's made his life.
Speaker 3: Okay, awesome.
Speaker 4: Yeah, But that being said, I've also I've been fortunate
Speaker 4: enough to make a lot of commercials. That's like what's
Speaker 4: when I was early on, I mean just shitloads of
Speaker 4: commercials and everyone so.
Speaker 3: Like they would go, oh, we want real couples, and
Speaker 3: I'd be like, no, please, please, don't please, please, he sucks.
Speaker 3: You can't do commercials.
Speaker 2: To save it.
Speaker 3: Why he's able give me one of my commercial husbands. Listen,
Speaker 3: we have taken up so much of your time.
Speaker 1: I don't want to keep you for much longer, but
Speaker 1: I guess I just wanted to ask if there's any
Speaker 1: more little s vu set tidbits, a funny run in
Speaker 1: with iced tea, something cute about Marishka, anything you want
Speaker 1: to give us last night?
Speaker 4: So other than Mrska has an incredible She enjoys a
Speaker 4: sense of humor. She loves it, she catches it, she's
Speaker 4: aware of it when it happens, she laughs out loud,
Speaker 4: and she calls you're funny.
Speaker 3: She enjoys that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And is there anything you have coming up that
Speaker 2: you would love to tell our listeners about?
Speaker 4: I have two little independent things. One of those in
Speaker 4: a whole bunch of festivals right now. That one short
Speaker 4: that's for and even made it into the Oscar nominated
Speaker 4: called Loser. It's really really good. Colleen the Guinness directed it.
Speaker 4: It's really lovely, really lovely, little little sound that really like.
Speaker 4: And then something called Silver Speakers that I did with
Speaker 4: my husband and Jim Notton, And it's so silly about
Speaker 4: trying to pick up people in a cemetery after your
Speaker 4: spouse has died.
Speaker 3: It's very sutant. Anyway, Yeah, that's great sunset, Thank you ladies.
Speaker 3: Very lovely, lovely to Peach you.
Speaker 1: Boll Oh my gosh, she was so lovely. Well, it's
Speaker 1: like you, I like talking to like a real like
Speaker 1: working actor. She's like out there doing the work, teaching
Speaker 1: the youth.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's cool now knowing, like with Michael Beach teaching
Speaker 2: sometimes because I think the what is it the narrative
Speaker 2: of like those who can't do teach or if you're
Speaker 2: a professor, why would I listen to you?
Speaker 3: You're a failure or whatever? And then you yeah, like.
Speaker 2: We get to talk to all these people that do
Speaker 2: teach at these schools and it's like, oh, you guys
Speaker 2: are getting like a great education from great people that
Speaker 2: are so good at their job.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and who do work and who are success who
Speaker 3: do work.
Speaker 2: We just I think if you're not an acting it's
Speaker 2: kind of like Alexis Billino, sorry in the Real HOUSEUS
Speaker 2: of Orange County when she's talking about to Heather Debro
Speaker 2: and she's like, Angelina Julie, that's an actress.
Speaker 3: I don't know who you are.
Speaker 2: And it's like, yeah, there's only a couple Angelina people acting,
Speaker 2: you know, yeah, there's a lot of.
Speaker 3: Tears below Angelina.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's there's this idea of like what success is
Speaker 2: or isn't, and people put their idea of success onto
Speaker 2: you and it's just like, oh, you don't even get it.
Speaker 3: And that's how I feel.
Speaker 1: This is like, you know, this bitch isna Angeline is
Speaker 1: about to play a famous opera singer, and I wonder
Speaker 1: if she ever had a Mommy's juice moment or she
Speaker 1: had to, you know, have her son help her drink anyway,
Speaker 1: just uh, just a random.
Speaker 3: Sam working.
Speaker 2: Because I do podcasts, because I'm researching Murder all night long.
Speaker 2: I was so upset research. I just like sometimes it
Speaker 2: is just so sad. I mean usually it's so sad.
Speaker 3: This is sad.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, no, it's it's it's not good, but a
Speaker 1: great episode with a lot of legendary actors.
Speaker 3: I mean, Fanula Fanula flan again, and you know, we
Speaker 3: had a.
Speaker 1: We had a lot of great actors and uh Sbu
Speaker 1: has tapped on this a bunch of times. This isn't
Speaker 1: our first time doing an episode about poor little old
Speaker 1: ladies being taken advantage of and I.
Speaker 2: But also if one of the reasons you're having kids
Speaker 2: is so someone will take care of you later, like
Speaker 2: cross that off the list. Even though Kathleen played a
Speaker 2: really good daughter, it's just like that's you can't rely
Speaker 2: on that at all.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, Rosie and Oscar are not taking care of
Speaker 1: me for a second, Are you joking?
Speaker 3: They're going to be out of here? Maybe Oscar? Maybe
Speaker 3: Oscar he loves my ass, but we'll say, but.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know, they're gonna be grown ups, Like
Speaker 2: what are they gonna be?
Speaker 3: Like, it's so crazy.
Speaker 2: I know.
Speaker 1: Sometimes I just like look at Oscar's little face and
Speaker 1: I'm like, one day you're gonna have like little whiskers
Speaker 1: coming out of like your face, like little facial hairs.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Boy, puberty is really uncomfortable to be around. Rough.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just really more like an anamorphosit Like it
Speaker 2: is just uncomfortable.
Speaker 3: I don't like it.
Speaker 1: I just saw one of my friend's kids, like after
Speaker 1: not seeing him like the whole pandemic, and he was
Speaker 1: like a kid the last time I saw him.
Speaker 3: Now he's like a dude, and it's like so strange.
Speaker 3: But but I haven't heard of a kid's voice crack
Speaker 3: in a while. I would probably like that stick around.
Speaker 1: They're coming A lot of these kids are gonna have
Speaker 1: voice cracks very soon. But yeah, the lessons from this episode, well,
Speaker 1: what's interesting is like that in this episode at least
Speaker 1: and in a lot of cases, it's like these are
Speaker 1: nicer homes like this. These aren't just like state run
Speaker 1: facilities where like, you know, things fall through the cracks
Speaker 1: like this is look at the view of this nursing
Speaker 1: home for Yeah, but I would mean to say.
Speaker 2: That the the rapist he had money, Like having money
Speaker 2: helps you get in anywhere, even if you just want
Speaker 2: to like do not.
Speaker 3: That important work. It's like when the take helps, it's.
Speaker 2: Like I don't understand why it wasn't suspicious, Like these
Speaker 2: nippos are everywhere, Like.
Speaker 3: We should have known what his mom made and been
Speaker 3: like why are you doing this job?
Speaker 2: Like clearly you're a rapist, right, Like because if you
Speaker 2: just cared about the elderly.
Speaker 3: Yeah you have you should be able to look up
Speaker 3: what your parents do, you would have a different kind
Speaker 3: of job. With that money.
Speaker 2: You'd be like, oh, I'm gonna help or I'm gonna
Speaker 2: be a psychologist or something, but like you want to
Speaker 2: do the lowest paying jobs in these care facilities and
Speaker 2: you come from millions.
Speaker 1: Uh huh, honey, you're a rapist. Yeah, something that's a
Speaker 1: red flag bitch. But also like what's the the other
Speaker 1: the other takeaway lesson is like pay attention. You don't
Speaker 1: be a dick to your son. You're turning him into
Speaker 1: a like that woman, just like an Archer's character, just
Speaker 1: like turned her son Like she was such a self
Speaker 1: involved bitch. I mean, like was it that she had
Speaker 1: too many boyfriends and just never paid attention to him?
Speaker 1: And that's why because like when he would be attacking
Speaker 1: these women, he would be like, tell me you love
Speaker 1: me and stuff, right, like like he was looking for
Speaker 1: affect sit in a way through his crimes that he
Speaker 1: wasn't getting from.
Speaker 3: His mother and yikes, yikes.
Speaker 2: But also like believe people like, yeah, maybe she has Alzheimer's,
Speaker 2: but everyone men are raping constantly, so I would believe Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: it's not that hard to believe. That's what's people always
Speaker 2: act like it's hard to believe it, but it's I
Speaker 2: don't know how. And like let's check references.
Speaker 1: People talk to people's last place of business, like, come on, Scott,
Speaker 1: like the guy in real life was moving from place
Speaker 1: to place.
Speaker 2: I just want to talk to the writer of this
Speaker 2: episode with his mars of pan cookies. No one likes them,
Speaker 2: That's what I learned. The writer loves Markapan. Yeah their
Speaker 2: grandmother did, I'm sure. But anyway, A I don't want
Speaker 2: to say great episode, just a very hard hitting episode.
Speaker 2: It's a great episode in terms of SVW lore because
Speaker 2: we have an old starlit mother that's psychotic, we have
Speaker 2: a weird little man who's like come mother, and then
Speaker 2: we have Alzheimer's.
Speaker 3: We have old people, we have familiar relationship, and we have.
Speaker 1: Old like old legends of cinema and stage and screen
Speaker 1: coming back onto our TVs.
Speaker 3: And love at the end of the episode. You know,
Speaker 3: that's cute. Those two have a cute little senior romance.
Speaker 3: That's fine.
Speaker 2: The father son that we're in the bakery now like
Speaker 2: and a bakery I feel is classic sview, Like there
Speaker 2: is a lot of classics in the season nineteen episode.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm happy to have yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Okay, let's move on to what would sister peg
Speaker 1: jew for. This is our weekly where we direct you
Speaker 1: to an article, a book, movie, a documentary, something to
Speaker 1: give you more info and what we're talking about this week,
Speaker 1: we wanted to direct you, guys to Elder Voice Advocates.
Speaker 1: This is a coalition of people and their loved ones
Speaker 1: advocating for those who have experienced abuse, neglect, and exploitation
Speaker 1: while receiving services from long term boarding and home care providers.
Speaker 1: The group lobbies for legislation to protect those in long
Speaker 1: term care. They also provide resources like knowing your rights
Speaker 1: and how to file a complaint. So if you want
Speaker 1: more information about that organization or to donate, you can
Speaker 1: go to www dot Eldervoicefamilyadvocates dot org. And that, as always,
Speaker 1: will be in our show notes linked and will be
Speaker 1: in a story that we put out the day of
Speaker 1: the shows the day that this episode is released. And
Speaker 1: then all of our what would sister peg dos are
Speaker 1: saved in a highlight on our Instagram called WWSPD and
Speaker 1: WWSPD two, and so you can always page back and
Speaker 1: see what other organizations and resources we've pointed you to.
Speaker 3: And that's that amazing. Thank you so much, and of
Speaker 3: course we will be back next week.
Speaker 2: We never stop, baby Monogamy from season three, episode eleven,
Speaker 2: Classic Classic.
Speaker 3: You guys are in much fucking treat top one for me.
Speaker 2: I love this episode. Yeah, it's especially heinous. So thanks
Speaker 2: for listening.
Speaker 3: Do all the things you know. Yeah, by hi to
Speaker 3: us in the streets.
Speaker 1: Follow us on Instagram, come see us live, et cetera,
Speaker 1: et cetera. We love you guys, Thanks for listening.
Speaker 3: Bye bye.
Speaker 2: That's Messed Up as an exactly right production. If you
Speaker 2: have compliments you'd like to give us or episodes you'd
Speaker 2: like us to cover, shoot us an email it That's
Speaker 2: Messed uppod at gmail dot com. Follow the podcast on
Speaker 2: Instagram at That's Messed Up Pod and on Twitter at
Speaker 2: messed Up Pod, and follow us personally at Kraklank and
Speaker 2: at glitter Cheese.
Speaker 1: As always, please see our show notes for sources and
Speaker 1: more information.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much to our senior producer Casey O'Brien
Speaker 2: and our associate producer Christina Chamberlain, and to our mixer
Speaker 2: John Bradley and our guest booker Patrick Cottner, and to
Speaker 2: Henry Kaperski for our theme song and Carly Geen Andrews
Speaker 2: for our artwork. Thank you to our executive producers Georgia
Speaker 2: hard Start, Karen Kilgarriff, Daniel Kramer, and everybody at exactly
Speaker 2: Right Media Dun dun